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2017/12/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
12/18   

2002/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25894 Activity:nil
9/14    Bush to U.N.: 'Go Bear!'
        \_ More like "back up your own resolutions or become completely
           meaningless and irrelevent".  Laws without enforcement are worse
           than no laws.  Laws must be consistently backed by force and
           punishment.  Doing otherwise only encourages law breaking.  Without
           a UN to worry about Hussein would have been assassinated or blown
           up years ago.
           \_ I am *not* a Bush supporter, and generally disagree with just
              about everything he has ever said.  In spite of that, I think
              he made a very good case to the UN.  one wonders why he didn't
              start out by making this case to the UN instead of prefacing
              it by months of counter-productive saber-rattling.
              \_ Because if he just walked in and begged them to do something
                 up front he would've been laughed at.  By saber rattling along
                 the way he made it clear he was dead serious and they better
                 *do* something or we'd do it for them *and* ignore them in the
                 future given their previous do-nothing record.  Also, there's
                 this funny idea about how the US is not subject to the 3rd
                 world pit that is the UN.  He made a good case but didn't tell
                 them we'd abide by their decision if it their plan was to
                 ignore it and hope it'd go away while they munched sand and
                 dug their sandy pits a little deeper.
2002/9/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25890 Activity:moderate
9/14    Bush to U.N.: 'Show Some Boner'
        \_ More like "back up your own resolutions or become completely
           meaningless and irrelevent".  Laws without enforcement are worse
           than no laws.  Laws must be consistently backed by force and
           punishment.  Doing otherwise only encourages law breaking.  Without
           a UN to worry about Hussein would have been assassinated or blown
           up years ago.
           \_ I am *not* a Bush supporter, and generally disagree with just
              about everything he has ever said.  In spite of that, I think
              he made a very good case to the UN.  one wonders why he didn't
              start out by making this case to the UN instead of prefacing
              it by months of counter-productive saber-rattling.
              \_ Because if he just walked in and begged them to do something
                 up front he would've been laughed at.  By saber rattling along
                 the way he made it clear he was dead serious and they better
                 *do* something or we'd do it for them *and* ignore them in the
                 future given their previous do-nothing record.  Also, there's
                 this funny idea about how the US is not subject to the 3rd
                 world pit that is the UN.  He made a good case but didn't tell
                 them we'd abide by their decision if it their plan was to
                 ignore it and hope it'd go away while they munched sand and
                 dug their sandy pits a little deeper.
2002/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25869 Activity:nil
9/12    Victory of the proletariat
        What the loss of Brazil to "the Reds" would mean for the United States
        http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0902/0902brazilelec2.htm
        \_ Who cares, I'm more freaked out about the country/economy/
           just about everything I hold near and dear going to hell
           if/when/certainly! the bush administration invades Iraq
        \_ why don't you post a news link rather than a right-wing
           editorial.   can't you just write your own right-wing
           editorials here on the motd?
                \_ Have you ever seen the word 'Communist' associated with
                   any of the politicians mentioned in the mainstream
                   press.  I rest my case.
2002/9/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:25861 Activity:very high
9/12    bush's gonna' do it.  he's really gonna' do it.
        \_ You just figured this out?
        \_ Um, after this morning, he might have the UN on board.
              \_ What happened this morning?
           \_ don't think anyone dare to cast the veto.
              \_ Spain and Kuwait are on board but that's not being reported.
              \_ Didn't Russia say last week that they're going to cast the
                 veto?
                 \_ No, they just want more IMF concessions.
                 \_ After the case Bush presented, if the UN doesn't do
                    anything, it should be disbanded.  Or at least we should
                    leave it.  If it passes resolutions it has no intention of
                    enforcing, it's just a posturing money-pit.
                    Full text of Bush's address:
                    enforcing, it's just a posturing money-pit.  Full text of
                    \_ George the 2nd's case is very one sided. He forgets
                       that the Iraq "problem" of the 1990s could have been
                       avoided had George the 1st order the taking of Baghdad.
                       He's probably got other motives too: 1. Elections are
                       coming up and there is nothing like a good war to get
                    Bush's address:
                    link:www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/4060014.htm
                    \_ George the 2nd's case is very one sided. He forgets that
                       the Iraq "problem" of the 1990s could have been avoided
                       campaign.
                       I hope Russia and some of the EU nations hold thier
                       ground and veto this preposterous attack on Iraq.
                       George is also brushing over the risks involved. Iraq
                       will become YA GI grave yard like Korea and Vietnam.
                       had George the 1st order the taking of Baghdad.  He's
                       probably got other motives too: 1. Elections are coming
              another country where your ideas can get you arrested and shot
              w/o trial. America - love it or leave it. Period.
                 \_ Under the current administration America is turing into
                    Nazi Germany (we already got something like the Gestapo
                    with the Dept. of Homeland Security).
                       up and there is nothing like a good war to get
                       republicans elected 2. A puppet regieme in Iraq that
                       supplies US oil companies with cheap crude will really
                       help out his backers in the oil industry thus ensuring
                       that he has a large amount of money for his re-election
                       campaign.  George is also brushing over the risks
                       involved. Iraq will become YA GI grave yard like Korea
                       and Vietnam.
                       \_ If we lose enough troops that might shock the American
                          public into remembering that a protracted ground war
                          isn't fun and games, no matter how technologically
                          advanced we are.
                       \_ How remarkably ignorant.  The reason the elder Bush
                          didn't take out Saddam Hussein was fear in the
                          administration and country that the coalition would
                          fall apart (sound familiar?).  As far as a potential
                          quagmire goes, the same prediction was made about
                          Afghanistan.
                          \_ There is no armed "Northern Alliance" for the US
                             to have do the hard work for them. And the US has
                             led the UN use of sanctions against Iraq which
                             is a very sore point among Iraqis.
                             \_ The war between the Northern Alliance and the
                                Taliban can be likened to the battle between
                                David and Golliath...and David's big bad
                                brother, the B-52.
                                \_ Saddam's learned that lesson already. Unless
                                   the US starts bombing cities, B52s will be
                                   a lot less effective as will most airpower.
                                   \_ hahahahahaha...We've already shown we can
                                      take out their anti-air whenever we like.
                                      And bombs dropped from the sky still blow
                                      up things on the ground.  In fact, they're
                                      even more precise now than they were 11
                                      years ago.
                                      \_ Sigh. Not AA, not tanks, not trucks,
                                         not tanker trucks. Individuals. Think
                                         Hui, think Saigon.
                                         \_ If you think Iraq is like Vietnam
                                            (culture, geography, etc.) you need
                                            to get a grip.
        \_ YES! American People need more "Living Space."
           \_ Don't you dare compare America to Nazi Germany. Please move to
              another country where your ideas can get you arrested and shot w/o
              trial. America - love it or leave it. Period.
                 \_ America - love it or change it. Troll.
                 \_ Under the current administration America is turing into Nazi
                    Germany (we already got something like the Gestapo with the
                    Dept. of Homeland Security).
              \_ Have you considered working for John Ashcroft?
              \_ Or maybe a burning tire necklace.
              \_ Loved her. Left her. Now she does tricks on San Pablo.
              \_ Woohoo! That's America too now! You es eh! You es eh!
                 \_ Ridiculous child, you know nothing about oppression.
                    \_ But thanks to the changed America, I'll know more about
                       it. And knowing is half the battle.
                       \_ Bombing Red Cross warehouses is the other half.
2002/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25847 Activity:high
9/11    http://www.msnbc.com/news/806174.asp?cp1=1 on Nelson Mandela saying
        the United States is a threat to world peace.  I gave up on the second
        line where it says "Sentenced to life in prison on desolate Robben
        Island...".  Yes he was held by the government but at least be honest
        about it; it was a palatial estate the likes of which I can never
        dream of affording.  I'd gladly give up my job and life here to be
        held captive at his former prison/estate.
        \_ would you really want to be captive in one spot for 25
           years?  not that I think mandela is the greatest, no one mentions
           that he used to be a terrorist.  granted, fighting the aparteid
           policies of south africa almost excused just about anything.
           his wife waited for him for 25 years, then he divorced
           her for some sweet young thing just as soon as he was
           released from jail. - danh
           \_ 25 years in paradise?  Would you turn down a ticket to Heaven
              for eternity too?  Don't forget all those burning tires around
              the necks of non-ANC blacks.
        \- from the pictures i have seen of his cell it didnt seem palatial.
           do you have a picture? being married to winnie mandela was probably
           a worse sentence. ok tnx.
           \_ He was held in confinement (yes, prison) not in a cell for most
              of the time on a gorgeous estate.  I saw pics in a magazine.
        \_ Other views around the world are similar:
           http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/oneyearlater/livesChanged_good.html
           I had no idea the Koreans hated us that much. Anyone got a link
           to the video mentioned in the article?
           \_ http://koreawave.sohu.com/66/80/article201698066.shtml
           \_ OBYankeeGoHome!
2002/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25833 Activity:nil
9/10    Bush really more liberal than Clinton:
        http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/09-09-2002/vo18no18_disguise.htm
2002/8/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25737 Activity:high
8/29    What have been the major highlights (or lowlights) of Bush Jr's
        presidency thus far?
        \_Well, if you didn't have your head in the sand for the past
        12 months, you'd know that we were attacekd by terrorists and
        that we sent troops to Afghanistan.
2002/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25659 Activity:high
8/22    mabye the bush supporters here would like to explain what internment
        camps for US citizens stipped of all rights have to do with
        the "core conservative values" you always drone on about.
        http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0814-05.htm
        LA times article by GW law professor about Ashcrofts plans
        for US concentration camps for those deemed unloyal.
        \_ Report to the re-education camps immediately.
        \_ It is a subject that deserves more than just a
           a few sentences in the MOTD or an article in the LA times.
           If you want a serious discussion without demagoguery, including
           links to ex parte Quirin and other relevant SCOTUS rulings
           try these:
           http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/735247/posts?page=1,50
           http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/733078/posts?page=51,50
           http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/736952/posts
           \_ ok, so it seems freepers can see this for the blatant
              attack on american freedoms it is.  so why are they
              so gung ho for Bush?  he appointed Ashcroft.
              everyone but total idiots knew he would appoint people
              with Ashcrofts ideology.  so why all the bush loving?
              is it a lesser of evils thing?
              also, i'd like to point out that one of your freeper links
              is just a link to the same article i posted.  -op
              \_ Here.  Read this.  There are laws in the this country and
                 things are being taken care of.  Just chill and relax and
                 smoke a bowl.  You'll feel better knowing the system works.
                 Checks and balances, kids.
                 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50967-2002Aug22.html
                 \_  1. that's a seperate isssue: surveilance
                     2. you still haven't answered my question
                     3. your beloved bush administration is already chalenging
                        the decision.
           Fine, I'll keep your links, but they are missing valuable
           insight and information you will unlikely find elsewhere.
           There is no competition of ideas, just punditry.
           http://nyt.com/focus/news/735247/posts?page=1,50
           http://nyt.com/focus/news/733078/posts?page=51,50
           http://nyt.com/focus/news/736952/posts
        \_ That's not the half of it. Check out this:
           http://csua.org/u/1a4
        \_ You see, in this country we have this thing we call 'the law' and
           just because the La Times tells you someone plans on breaking the
           law or has been breaking the law does not mean it is so.  If in
           fact some actually really does break the law then that has nothing
           to do with conservative values.  Let us know when it happens and
           then there'll be something to talk about.
        \_ The problem with links like this from sites with an obvious
           political agenda is the entire piece is based on their claims of
           the existance of plans for internment camps and rights stripping
           for US citizens, however, they fail to provide any reference to
           said plans and force the reader to take their word for it at face
           value (which you apparently have) with no reliable evidence
           what so ever.  Whatever your own politics may be, and this applies
           to everyone on the motd, it is important to carefully examine and
           question the sources one relies upon for information and the basis
           for one's views and beliefs.  Without a reliable second or third
           source, the reader is at the mercy of the agenda driven and we all
           *know* people with an axe to grind will always twist a story or only
           tell the parts (out of context) that support their views.  This is
           an 'intellectually dangerous' path to follow.  Question everything.
           \_ what part of US citizens arrested on US soil don't you
              understand?
                \_ there is this place called a prison where there are tons
                 of american citizens arrested and lots of illegal aliens as
                 well.
                \_ US citizens get arrested all the time.  That's what happens
                   when you break the law.  I understand and enourage that sort
                   of thing.  We even sometimes extradite people from other
                   counrties to this country to try and jail them.  Seriously,
                   dude, you're going nowhere with that simplistic comment.
2002/8/9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25531 Activity:nil 60%like:25533
8/9     Koreans and microwavable dogmeat:
http://www.local6.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-158143320020729-080754.html
2002/8/3 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25484 Activity:nil
8/2     http://www.opensecrets.org
2002/7/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25440 Activity:high
7/29    A question for you married alumni:  have you become more conservative
        since you graduated, started working, and got married (or had kids)
        even?  (assuming you were liberal before):
        yes:
        no: .
        \_ Marriage had no effect.  But going to Berkeley did.  I entered Cal
           as a blank slate.  All the political stuff was totally outside my
           entire universe before entering college.  I came to Cal.  I was
           inundated with leftist propoganda.  I listened.  I analysed.  I
           became aware.  I eventually registered Republican and vote that way
           at every election now.  I don't agree with the entire (R) platform.
           A lot of it is a load of crap but less so than what the left wants
           to do.  I think talking with BH was the turning point for me.
           \_ I came in left and UC Berkeley made me much less left for
              basically the same reasons. I've since moved away from campus. I
              live and work and volunteer in West Berkeley now and my politics
              have been drifting back to the left working with the community
              here. It was the frickin' indoctrination that sucked.
        \_ More responsible and financially conservative, yes.  My politics
           haven't changed- although I'd encourage Pat Buchanan to build the
           wall twice as high now that we are post 9/11.  -ax
           \_ Woo woo!  GO PAT GO!
        \_ i was republican when i first went to Cal and when i graduated
           i was still a republican.  now (6 years after graduating) i'm
           still a republican.  i guess my political views haven't changed
           at all.  -uctt
        \_ I came to Berkeley center-left, but watching Tim
           Russert smirk the night of the 2000 election and reading
           Freerepublic I am now hard right.  How could I have been so
           stupid? BTW Bush is increasingly a disappointment.
           \_ Bush has always been a disappointment. --dim
           \_ I hope you're a troll.  The freepers aren't real republicans or
              real conservatives (not the same thing).  They're a bunch of
              whacko extremist freaks.  They're the right's unthinking
              counter part to the left's unthinking Berkeley/San Francisco
              counterpart to the left's unthinking Berkeley/San Francisco
              whacko extremist freaks.  I've yet to hear an extremist from any
              part of the spectrum that didn't turn my stomach.  And no I'm not
              a wishy washy undecided middle-grounder either.
2002/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25343 Activity:high
7/12    I.am@yermoms.house
        \_ Fixing the toilet or mowing the lawn?
           \_ Plugging the drain and trimming the bush
2002/7/2-3 [Reference/History, Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25265 Activity:nil
7/2     The Prez has lots of experience with corporate fraud:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/02/opinion/02KRUG.html
        http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2002/07/02/bush/index_np.html?x
        \_ so? if it really ends up leading to reform, i don't care
           what he did in the past.  let's judge him by his current actions,
           not past actions.  they're bad enough.
           \_ You really think we have any real chance of seeing reform?
2002/6/29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25242 Activity:very high
6/28    Cheney takes over government!
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62584-2002Jun28.html
        \_ It's only the second time that the 25th Amendment is invoked, and in
           both times it's because the President of the United States of
           America has his anus poked.
           \_ When was the other time?  Carter getting his hemrhoids(sp)
              removed?
              \_ "The only other time Section 3 was invoked was July 13, 1985,
                 when President Reagan underwent surgery for colon cancer."
                 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020628/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_medical
        \_ "Bush said he decided to transfer powers to Cheney out of extra
            caution because the nation is at war."
           One last time... did Congress actually declare war? -geordan
           \_ you know the answer.  why don't you count how many times
              the bush administration has violated the constitution
              and tell us.
              \_ I feel so violated.  -- the Constitution
              \_ I believe that FDR was the last president to actually
                 request a declaration of war and get it..
              \_ Yawn... here come the lawyers!  Yes, sure, 'war' has a
                 specific legal meaning in this country which requires, oh
                 fuck it.  You know all this.  Fucking motd.  So pedantic
                 in a pathetic attempt to score some 'points' on some
                 mythical scoreboard somewhere.
              \_ How does Bush violate the Constitution by just saying that
                 we are a nation at war?
                 \_ Only Congress has the power to declare war. The terrorism
                    thing is a MEOW (Moral Equivalent Of War) type war. Like
                    the "war" on drugs.
                    \_ And the war on desert storms.
                       \_ And the Korean and Vietnam wars?
                 \_ Oh please, both you and Mr. Mythical Scoreboard up
                    there.  I asked if Congress actually declared war.
                    Suddenly people are pulling "Geordan said that Bush is
                    violating the Constitution" out of their ass.  And I
                    don't know about any "mythical scoreboard" you're
                    referring to.  Get a life, or at least sign your name.
                    -geordan
2002/6/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25235 Activity:very high
6/27    Private School Costs vs. Public School Costs
        http://www.mackinac.org/1118
        \_ Do for public education what Enron did for public power!
        \_ Do to the education system what Enron did for the power system!
                \_ If anything Enron affirms the efficiency of free
                   market forces.  Nobody said it was perfect, and
                   FWIW, there had been obvious warnings for
                   over a year and a half.
        \_ read Gatto's "A Different Kind of Teacher"
2002/6/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25037 Activity:moderate
6/7     So when are you libertarians going to disavow the Cato Institue
        and all the other Bush Ass kissing warmongering groups?
        http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
        \_ Because the left is tax & spend and for big government which is
           the exact opposite of what a lot of libertarianism is all about?
           Troll, before you post drivel about someone else's philosophy you
           should take at least 30 seconds to find out what that philosophy
           is all about.  I'm not a libertarian but I at least bothered to
           find out what their core beliefs are at one point in my life.
2017/12/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
12/18   

2002/5/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24949 Activity:nil
5/26    president bush has a lot of friends.
        \_ Everyone likes monosyllabic dolts.
2002/5/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24948 Activity:moderate
5/25    The Devil and Mr. Hicks
        http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/27/cover-cooper.shtml
        \_ The news in this story is what?  That as people grow wiser they see
           the folly in the leftist agenda?  Nothing new about that.
2002/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24729 Activity:very high
5/6     Why is http://cnn.com a bad provider of news? What are some good online
        news providers?
        \_ How about bbc.uk?
        \_ try NPR or DW (http://dw-world.de/english
                          \_ The which is utterly broken...
           \_ NPR? HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAAAA! Do they serve news with their agenda?
              \_ And who do you suggest?  NewRepublic?
        \_ CNN is shallow and trite.
        \_ Actually, the overseas versions of CNN are much better. Get a
        satellite feed.
        \_ /etc/motd.public
        \_ Only read the http://washingtontimes.com and http://freerepublic.com. Then
           you will be free of the contamination of liberal thought.
2002/5/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24666 Activity:nil
5/1     there's a billboard near head level on san pablo / gilman for the
        movie "Sum Of All Fears" at the top it says "78,000 NUCLEAR WEAPONS"
        in the middle someone has thoughtfully pasted a sign that says
          "GEORGE W BUSH IS PRESIDENT"
        \_I still don't know why you bag on Bush.... the current situation
          is caused by a lot of issues which are totally out of his hands..
          well they are obviously in them now which is why he is getting
          blamed but in reality he is just trying to clean up shit dumped
          upon him by previous generations. do the run down...
            recession: caused by over investment over year prior to his
          presidency and over lack of efficient regulation in the telecom
          and energy markets all which enacted regulations BEFORE bush was
          elected and laws which Bush now not involved with.
            Israel: caused by fucking post ww2 jew lovers. Israel needs to be
          shot down. In this regards bush is actually again not the guy who
          caused the problem but now being blamed for not Fixing it. That
          is so damn hypocritical.
           \_ Yeah! Kill the Jews!  That'll fix it!  Let's start by numbering
              their arms so we can keep track of them and then we can round
              them up and put them in camps for our safety and then....
          Just do down th line Bush is trying to pick up the pieces. Could
          he do better, yes but that isn't the point we can always do
          better, is he trying yes. If you want to assign BLAME (Its "his"
          fault) go find some FCC and FERC presidents go find some judge
          which has kept the ms monopoly running, go find the patent judges
          which restrict innovation. Now go tell me how Bush is the
          cause....
           \_ Patents don't restrict innovation.  I doubt you even know what
              a patent even is.
            I know several people who have just been hird by the forestry
          service.. so there are jobs to be had..... I guess you should go
          blame Bush for that to. Or how about the thousands of jobs which
          are going to be SUSTAINED in california due to the JSF contract
          as opposed to peope who would just be left of the street.. the
          fault of Bush obvious.. maybe you should go out there and tell
          them all Bush is a jerk and fire them all.
            Then what about DAVIS??? you never mention him at all.. yet he is
          parhaps the most corrupt governmet official in history blowing
          all OUR money.
            You want to blame someone.. how about Gates! He has the power to
          override all profit motive in the US, he has the power to reduce
          msft to a not for profit enterprise and return windows and office
          to the public.  Not to mention his abiltiy to spend 50B in cash
          on whatever he wants.  but what does he do... nothing for the
          "common" american. What does bush do for the "common" american-
          he provides stability and an environment such that jobs are
          available.
           \_ BG owes you *exactly* *nothing*.  Go start your own little
              communist utopia somewhere.  BG is a dick but he doesn't owe
              you anything.
          When you bag on bush provide concrete example otherwise you
          massively lose my respect with blanket comments. Ya you migth be
          right that Bush is to blame for everything and he is the
          antichrist or whatever but if you don't tell me what he has done
          I am left with my opinion and my believes and you are just
          pissing me off.
           \_ So I'm confused.  Other than your need for ee190, are you a
              conservative or a socialist?  You can't seem to make up your
              mind.  You post contradictory philosophies.  You want stiff
              regulation, you want free trade, you want to break patents, you
              want to kill the jews, you want to confiscate BG's wealth, etc.
              I'm thinking you're just posting all sorts of random stuff
              hoping that if you post enough of it, something will stick and
              you'll get a huge flame fest.
              \_ I think he just wanted to toy with your puny little brain.
2002/5/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24664 Activity:insanely high
5/1     The Jenin "massacre" death toll = 56 (I'm going to *ASSUME* that
        this wasn't censored repeatedly)
        http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020501-5587072.htm
        \_ Of course it was censored repeatedly.  I'm still waiting for the
           hysterical British rags to make this front page news for a few
           weeks the same way they made the original false charges front page
           news.  We know the British rags are all top notch and unbiased,
           right?  They'll retract of course.  Any good papers would.
           \_ Got a URL for any of these so-called British rags?
                \_ Where've you been?  Go read the motd archives.  We've
                   discussed this at length on the motd before.
                   \_ Typical straw man arguement. The Guardian and BBC,
                      both widely quoted in the motd, have been pretty
                      balanced. They always said things like "Palestinian
                      sources claim massacre" and I defy you to show otherwise.
                      Here is a recent BBC article about it, btw:
                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1957000/1957862.stm
                      \_ Garbage.  It's all in the archives.  And go read your
                         own BBC link.  The non-BBC rags are screeching and
                         anything but unbiased.
        \_ 26 israeli soldiers die to kill 56 in jenin? I think the non
           military "civilians" kicked well equiped israeli soldiers
           asses in that case.
           \_ Israel could use planes and bombs like we do, but they actually
              want to protect lives on either side.
            \_ Maybe because they weren't civilians?  2:1 in man to man street
               fighting is pretty good.  The US no longer does this sort of
               combat.  We just flatten shit from 50,000 feet.  Imagine the
               outcry if Israel fought wars the way we do.
        \_ http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm
           http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/washington-times.html
           \_ This is all FUD and noise.  The http://fair.org link is so old it talks
              about Reagan reading it everyday.  I doubt he's read anything of
              note for almost 10 years.
              \_So are you saying the moonies stopped being a cult sometime
                recently, or what?
              \_ Are you claiming that Reverend Moon did not say all that?
                \_ To both of the above: I'm saying I don't see how it matters.
                   I want to take over the world also.  So what?  Please show
                   in some way other than attacking the paper's owners that
                   the information in the link is untrue in some way.  The
                   same information is elsewhere on the net.  It must be a
                   grand moonie conspiracy, eh?
        \_ http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/revmoon.shtml
           much more about Moon's attempts to buy influence worldwide
        \_ Anyone who reads the Washington Times for anything but
           humor value is seriously wacked.
           \_ That's nice.  Do you have any evidence or alternate sources
              that this article is incorrect in any way?  Please post your
              URLs so we can judge for ourselves.  Thanks.
2002/4/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24635 Activity:kinda low
4/29    Gamble: Davis bets the state budget on his re-election
        "This time, they say, the budget hole will probably
        fall in the $20 billion to $22 billion range...
        The final damage is hard to estimate because Davis,
        instead of getting serious about scaling back state
        spending (which has swelled by 36 percent under his watch)..."
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/674923/posts
        \_ No one cares what you idiot inbreds think.
        \_ No one cares what Simple Simon and his inbred supporters
           think. Give it up.
           \_ This state needs a real leader.  Someone with vision.  Someone
              who cares.  A man like... Gray Davis.
        \_ Post the god damned original link not the freeper crap.
           http://www.presstelegram.com/archive/opinions/0402/29/edi02.asp
2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military] UID:24478 Activity:nil 61%like:24424
4/18    "I do believe Ariel Sharon is a man of peace," Bush says.
        War is Peace.
        \_ Yeah yeah and they gave Arafat the Nobel Peace Prize.  Whatever.
           \_ Ignorance is Strength.
2002/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24266 Activity:insanely high
3/28    So how many people believe the U.S. was involved in bringing
        down the WTC in order to create endless oilwar as well as blind
        flag waving/rights-waiving obeissance etc?
        \_ How many?  Only the stupid and the paranoid ones.  Count them up.
        \_ It was the Mossad.
           \_ you misspelled "yermom."
           \_ Sure, blame the Jews.  You know it was the ANC.
        \_ The US didn't do it, but knew it was going to happen
           and turned a blind eye to the possiblity:
           http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j16.shtml
           stunning the growing protests of globalization just before
           \_ Wouldn't be the first time that the TPTB overlooked
              an impending disaster (ex. FDR and Pearl Harbor)
              \_ or manufactured one (e.g., Tonkin Gulf, resulting
                 in U.S. entering the Vietnam War) -- the government
                 admits this openly now.
                 \_ USS Maine and the Spanish American War, USS Greer
                    and WWI, the list goes on.
                    \_ You mean USS Greer/WWII, right? What is odd
                       about that incident? UBoats sank quite a few US
                 \_ Greer was WWI. She was the first ship fired upon
                    by germans, but this was in self defense (the
                       destroyers before the US entry. Do you think they
                       were all hoaxes or something?
                       \_ Greer was WWI. She was the first navy ship fired
                          on by germans, but this was in self defense (the
                          Greer was depth charging the Uboat in question)
                          Wilson "forgot" that the Greer was under orders
                          to depth charge Uboats when we went before congress
                          and urged the US entry into WWI. It wasn't exactly
                          lying, but it was shady.
                          \_ http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/7-2-188/188-29.html
                             Maybe the same incident happened in both
                             wars with the same ship, but I kind of doubt
                             it.
        \_ http://www.copvcia.com and http://www.emperors-clothes.com
        \_ don't forget masking the inevitable economic downturn and
           the stunning growing protests of globalization just before
           they IMF/WB went to WDC
           \_ yeah all those dotcommers outa work could cause a lot
              of hell if they identified the real problem
              \_ Actually this was a problem for most large corporations.
                 Once the supply of labor was getting short, costs went
                 up. When the dotcoms who couldn't outlast a yearlong
                 recession and died, the supply of labor shot up and
                 corporation costs have gone down.
        \_ Not that I'm discounting the theory, but why is there a
           conspiracy theory for every major event in history?  Next thing
           you know, the gov't conspired to bring the asteroid in to kill
           off the dinosaurs.
           \_ Cuz government by definition IS a conspiracy, one which is
              well-funded and controls who the "rules" apply to and which
              commits every action with social control and the maintaining
              power (gained via the conspiracy of government) as its
              paramount concern.  Off-the-shelf formulas are used frequently.
              \_ "by definition".  Uhm ok.  Whatever.  No cookie, troll.
           \_ The government bringing in asteroids to kill the dinosaurs?
              Nothing could be more absurd.  Everyone knows it was space
              aliens. -geordan
        \_ it was the gays. -rev. falwell
                \_ and we all know what a healthy lifestyle many of them lead.
2002/3/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24168 Activity:nil
3/20    http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020320-167972.htm
        Bush rejects "World Tax" to help the world's poor.  What a total
        unsympathetic heartless bastard!
        \_ You _are_ kidding, right?
           \_ No, the link is real.  It isn't fake.  It's the real thing.
              How could I fake a link to *everyone* on soda when they're
              reading the web from all over the country?
2002/3/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24107 Activity:insanely high
3/13    Why have Enron and Global Crossing completely disappeared
        from the mainstream press?  This was predicted as
        Bush's Watergate.
        \_ Because there's no story and no one cares?  And GC was a pure Dem
           disaster politcally which is why it barely got any press at all.
           Who predicted this was a "Bush Watergate"?  Hopeful and otherwise
           clueless lefty media types who are trying hard to avoid pointing
           out that the Dems don't have any positive plans for the country?
           That their only plan is smear and "we're not them!"?  Whatever.
           The real answer is there's no story there.  Both companies were
           poorly run and then keeled over as one would expect given how each
           ran themselves.  BFD.
           \_ Bwahaha! Run and scurry Bush-boy. Three to five screenplays are
              already in the works on Enron. This won't be dead for years. It
              just won't be front page news every single day.
              \_ This is what people said of the junk bond "scandal". Almost
                 no one remembers or cares.
              \_ You must be young.  No one cares.  And frankly the Dems
                 should be *really* happy no one cares.  If anyone did care
                 and the media was honest all the dirty Dem connections would
                 be everywhere.  Even Waxman is backing off his earlier
                 attacks.  What does Waxman know that you don't?
                 \_ Earl: Didja get a tug on that lure?
                    Cletus: Yup a got a couple.
2002/3/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24102 Activity:moderate
3/13    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/13/international/13CND-ZIMB.html
        oh, the irony:
        In Washington, a statement by Secretary Powell said "Mugabe can
        claim victory but not democratic legitimacy."
        \_ What's the irony in that?
           \_ The touchy feely gore lover who posted this believes that
              bush and co did not win the election in a democratic way
              because they didn't let "every vote be counted" and had
              a bunch of cronies in the sc rule in thier favor.
              \_ Oh.  Is this that nonsense about stealing the election even
                 though no matter how they counted and recounted it afterwards
                 the best they could do was a three (3) vote win for Gore
                 under some extremely unlikely and bizarre circumstances?  You
                 mean that election where every vote got counted so many times
                 the chad was falling out of ballots all over the floor and
                 tables?  Thanks.  Now I know.
2002/3/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:24052 Activity:moderate
3/6     hey freerepublic guy, what do you think of bush's
        kowtowing to the US steel industry?  - danh
        \_ it's utter berkeley!  the sacrifice of morals to take a stance
           on some issue clouded by stupidity!
        \_ How so?  By refusing to pick up the steel industry tab?  I'm not
           the freeper guy, btw.  The steel industry is incredibly pissed off
           that the feds won't pick up their pension debts.  What are you
           talking about?
        \_ Isn't this about Bush being able to claim that he stood
           by steel workers and reaping the political benefit of being
           loyal to supporters while at the same time being fully aware
           that this will be shot down by the WTO?
           \_ and trying to balance that against the votes he'll lose by
              driving up durable goods prices...
           \_ I think danh is talking about steel tariffs to protect the
              uncompetitive steel industry. Freeper's are split about it.
              - jeffwong
              \_ Well it isn't free competition if the competition is being
                 artificially boosted by their own tariffs and government
                 subsidies.  It's hard for a company to compete with the
                 entire tax base of a foreign nation.
                 \_ It's not always the government. It's cheaper labor and
                    better "tax incentives," and product dumping by the
                    competition. The fun part is that the foreign companies
                    can get around the US tariffs by selling to Canadian or
                    Mexican companies to ship to the US. NAFTA prevents the
                    tariffs being imposed on them.
2002/3/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24022 Activity:high
3/4     Enron/Taliban link explained:
        http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0202a/enroncoverup.html
        \_ Uh, there were any surprises in here for you?
        \_ That is a really sad attempt to try to tie the Bush
           administration to Enron.  I don't like Bush that much,
           he just proposed the largest budget in US history.
           But why does the Enron timeline as reported in the
           media always omit the years 1992-2000?
           Do yourself a favor and search for Ron Brown and Enron.
           Wait, you don't know who Ron Brown was?  He was Clinton's
           Commerce Secratary who personally escorted Lay on trade
           mission to India, Africa and the Balkans.   In one case a
           week after Lay cut the DNC a 100,000$ check.  Lay had at
           least a dozen sleep overs in the Clinton's White House.  Oh,
           and what happened to Brown? Well his plane "accidently"
           and what happened to Brown? Well his plane conveniently
           crashed in the mountains of Croatia shortly before he was
           to be subpoened by Congress to testify about Clinton.
                \_ hi, check your facts, Lay never slept over
                   at the clinton white house.  are people going
                   to repeat this over and over until it becomes true?
 http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2002_02_24_archive.html#10250815 - danh
                                \_  Thanks I retract that then.
           \_ Fucking right wing conspiracy spouting fascist!  Don't bring
              *facts* into this!  We all know Enron only existed during
              Republican administrations.  We know what the meaning of "is"
              is, damn it!
                \_ it is kind of funny how the current administration
                   is pretending they never heard of enron, when
                   enron was bush's biggest contributor and is/was
                   so blatingly pro business first when deciding
                   on policy.
                        \_  What are you refering to?  Last I checked
                            Enron called the Secretary Oneil,
                            but the administration did nothing.  Are you
                            implying the administration should have gone
                            public with info about Enron? It was
                            Robert Rubin (of Long Term Capital Management
                            fame) that wanted government intervention.
                            If there's any lesson to be learned about this,
                            it's that we need to pay more taxes and need
                            bigger federal government.
                            \_ How'd you get *that* lesson from this?  The
                               lesson is "diversify your investments" and "dont
                               believe the hype from management".  These are
                               ancient bits of wisdom people seem to need to
                               re-learn over n over n over....
                                  \_  Being sarcastic...
2002/3/2 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24012 Activity:high
3/1     Shadow Government in operation:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22615-2002Mar1.html

        Somehow this shadow government business makes me want to buy
        guns, lots of guns.
        \_ is it still a "shadow government" if everyone knows about it?
        \_ Would you rather they had NO contingency plan?  If you want to
           go shoot someone, why do you need to wait for an excuse.
           \_ The contingency plan can easily get out of hand. What is to
              stop the shadow gov. from declaring martial law and abridging
              our rights under the constitution and the bill of rights?
              If the gun control idiots happen to prevail, we will have no
              way of fighting back either.
              If you think that martial law can't happen in the modern
              world, it happened less than 30 yrs ago in India.
              \_ Xfilers knew about this several years ago... it's called FEMA,
                 and they can declare martial law.  It's a conspiracy with
                 aliens.
                 \_motd formatting Nazi was here...
              \_ I'm opposed to gun control and a staunch conservative but
                 you're just sounding like a whacko.  What stops them from
                 declaring martial law?  How about the fact that there's
                 still a Federal Government stomping around and these people
                 all answer to it?  Did you even read the article?  Troll.
        \_ All Hail Caesar!
           \_ Et tu brute?
                \_ Although some would say the actual words were really
                   "And you, too, my son?" which means a lot more if you
                   understand the relationship between Julius and Brutus.
2002/2/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23948 Activity:high
2/21    "BUSH'S VIETNAM"
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&u=/020221/7/14zdw.html
        \_ Ted Rall should stick to drawing mediocre comic strips.  Or see
           somebody about getting his medication changed.
2002/2/22 [ERROR, uid:23939, category id '18005#4.125' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23939 Activity:nil
2/21    Does anyone have a username/password for http://wsj.com (wall st journal)?
        \_ Yes.
        \_ did you try csua/csua or motd/motd?
2002/2/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23910 Activity:very high
2/19    http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/19/gen.strategic.influence/index.html
        Office of Strategic Influence or Office of Propoganda/Brainwashing?
        \_ Oh my god!  The government might not tell the truth!  This is truly
           shocking!  Do we also spend money on the Office of Correct Spelling?
           Not enough, apparently.
                \_ yeah but this is the sort of office it'd be better
                   not to publicize to people..just do it already,
                   but covertly.
2002/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23798 Activity:high
2/6     For those that know rice.  What's a good rice cooker brand?  I need
        one that cooks and keeps warm.  I only have a "cooker" and not a
        "warmer."  Oh, and where to buy it cheap.
        \_ pot.  stove.  15 minutes.
           \_ You don't understand.  I'm a lazy ass bum who'd rather starve
              than to cook ramen.
        \_ National, aka Panasonic, aka Matsushita -jon
        \_ go to ranch 99 or lion plaza
           \_ Where is Lion Plaza?
              \_ Mission Blvd off 880. But any Ranch 99 or Marina Food will do
                 \_ 99 Ranch, not Ranch 99
                    \_ picky picky. -anti-anal police
                    \_ "Ni Ni Ranch"
                       \_ Tits ranch?
                    \_ Yes, but all my friends call it Ranch 99 for some
                       reason.  If you search the web for "Ranch 99" you can
                       see many references too.  We also say its Chinese name
                       as "Dai Wah 99" even though the printed form is
                       "Dai Wah" only.
                       \_ http://www.99ranch.com
                 \_ also one in Milpitas, by Milpitas Blvd. and Dixon Landing
          \_ Or you can go to the one  in Daly City.
        \_ look for an elephant emblem.
           \_ zojirushi.  those rule.
              \_ yes... these are good... I had one. They allegedly utilize
                 "fuzzy logic" in the temperature control.
2002/2/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23775 Activity:nil
2/4     The largest fiber optic network in the world is about to be
        'bought' by the Chicoms, and where is the media?
        A national disgrace.
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/621896/posts
2002/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23755 Activity:high
2/1     Justice orders White House to preserve all Enron documents.  And here I
        thought it was the job of the Justice Department to stall, delay, and
        protect criminal activity in the Executive branch....  Speaking of
        which, Janet Reno is still going to run for Florida Governor even after
        her little episode on stage.
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10986-2002Feb1.html
        \_ This is the COMPUTER Science Undergraduate Organization, not the
           Political Science Undergrad Association.
           \_ The "sue uh"?
        \_ Take your boring politics elsewhere.
           \_ "dude!  a new linux kernel is out!  quick!  post it to the motd!
              first!! first!!"  Get over it.  You can't hide in a machine room
              or computer lab your entire life.  Join the human race.  BTW, why
              aren't you bitching about all the other things on the motd that
              aren't specifically nerd oriented?
              \_ You should've got a Dell, dude!
        \_ Don't forget the head of the GAO is a former board member
           of Arthur Andersen, appointed in 1998 by who else?
        \_ Don't forget the head of the GAO, Walker, is a former board member
           of Arthur Andersen, appointed in 1998 by who else?  And don't
           forget it was the same GAO who did not sue Gore over
           his Buddhist temple and other 1996 campaign finance
           violations (read taking money from the PLA).
2002/1/30 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23722 Activity:nil
1/30    Amazing how the post about some chick in a bikini on Howard
        Stern can last for so long, yet the extra special George Bush
        quote gets deleted in one day.
2002/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23715 Activity:nil
1/29    Actual Bush quote from State of the Union Address:

        "For too long our culture has said, 'If it feels good, do it.'
        Now America is embracing a new ethic and a new creed: 'Let's roll.'"

        Since when is Bush advocating Ecstacy use?
        \_ maybe after his niece got arrested on drug charges?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020129/ts_nm/crime_bush_niece_dc_4
2002/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23714 Activity:nil
1/29    two years of service to help bush's re-election campaign? no way!
2002/1/29 [ERROR, uid:23699, category id '18005#2.59375' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23699 Activity:nil
1/28    Stop the homesexuals from exploiting our grief!
        http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petition.html?name=homosexuals_exploit
2002/1/28 [ERROR, uid:23697, category id '18005#2.59375' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23697 Activity:nil
1/28    Help stop child porn in our libraries:
        http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petition.html?name=libraryporn
2002/1/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23696 Activity:nil
1/27    Bush has heart trouble.  White House hides Bush medical info.  I think
        all Presidential medical info should be public.
        http://www.kpcc.org/features/bush_special.html
2002/1/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23672 Activity:nil
1/25    fox reports all top enron executives are now on suicide watch.
        \_ They should be on Republican Hit Squad watch.
2002/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23620 Activity:nil
1/20    Enron and the Bush Administration:
        kindred spirits in fraud and criminality:
        http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/enro-j18.shtml
        \_ Why read rambling drivel?
           http://www.americanprospect.com/print/V13/3/meyerson-h.html
           \_  Interesting article.  Thank you.  --erikred
        \_ With an intro like yours why bother reading it?  Is there any
           factual links in there showing Bush is responsible for Enron's
           collapse in any way or profited from it or used/abused his power to
           aid anyone who had aided his campaign in any sort of quid-pro-quo?
           No Clinton quality sellouts to multiple foreign powers?
        \_ Yes there are political ties, but the delve equally into
           the repubs and dems.  Consequently, like Chinagate, the
           inquiry will go nowhere.  All the more reason for smaller
           government.
2002/1/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23605 Activity:kinda low
1/18    How many members of the Bush regime served on Enron's BoD?
        \_ Enron bought just about every state rep. Demoidiot or
           Repumoron from Texas as well as several other states.
           They company was twisted all the way around and to the
           very top. Get over it. It is just another corrupt
           Washington Scandal that everyone knows is the norm.
2002/1/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:23593 Activity:insanely high
1/18    NY Times Writer Took $50,000 "Consultancy" Fee
        From Enron To Give Them "Cover"
        http://www.andrewsullivan.com
        \_ Oh no!  A NYT writer?!  I'm shocked!  He took more than 99% of
           politicians in either party?  It's a scandal!
2002/1/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23564 Activity:very high
1/14    When Reagan was shot, Alexander Haig got a lot of crap about the
        line of succession and the 25th ammendment. I looked at the
        25th ammendment and I can't find anything about the speaker
        of the house comming after the VP and the secy. of state coming
        5th. Is it stated in the constitution anywhere?
        \_ yes.
        \_ I heard the same thing after 9/11 when they talked about why they
           were keeping Cheney away from Bush.
           \- hello. q.v. Article XXV is on minimal requirements on
           presidential sucession. the exact details and procedures consitent
           with this scheme is spelled out in a congressional acts (per II.1.6)
           general recommendation: there is a good edition of the
           consititution of the US printed by the govt printing office with
           a lot of tactical info and a good index. it's probably a couple
           of bucks.
           as we have learned with election 2000, the "u.s. govt finite state
           machine" doenst have all of its i's dotted and t's crossed.
           ok tnx --psb
           \_ How about those executive orders? I don't see anything in
              the constitution giving the president law-making powers.
              \_ and I see nothing in the constitution that forbids it.
           \_ To properly answer your question, NO, it is not specifically
              listed in the US Constitution.  The 25th amendment does allow
              Congress to set up the order of sucession in Article XXV.  So all
              the Constitution states is that it's up to Congress.  Congress
              currently has an Act in place that states the specific order of
              sucession.  Sorry, I don't remember where in the law books that
              one is located at.  I'll leave that an exercise for the reader.
2002/1/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23533 Activity:nil
1/11    Enron == Teapot Dome!
2002/1/1 [Reference/BayArea, Academia/Berkeley, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23426 Activity:nil
1/1     Isn't it amazing that in Berkeley, land of the Free Speech Movement,
        any critisism of the Bush administration and its policies is immediately
        deleted? How far we have fallen.
2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23418 Activity:nil
12/30   "Both Reno and O'Donnell, a foster parent, said they
        shared a commitment to helping children."
        Like the ones burned to death in Waco and Elian?
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/599106/posts
        \_ As bad as I think Reno was for the country at least she isn't the
           total nutjob that O'Donnell is.  As long as Rosie keeps to her
           self-ego boosting magazine and bad TV we're safe.
2001/12/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23389 Activity:moderate
12/27   Republicans and Democrats took millions from Enron, granted it
        exemption from ordinary financial oversight:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22448-2001Dec24.htm
        \_ We need a smaller government.
        \_ and we have:
             http://www.sfweekly.com/issues/2001-12-26/smith.html/1/index.html
2001/12/27 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23379 Activity:nil
12/26   The truth about KAL 007, soviet abduction, and CIA/KGB coverup,
        brought to you by Jesse Helms and http://freerepublic.com
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/597265/posts
2001/12/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23327 Activity:nil
12/19   Harry Browne on Bush:
        http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25767
        \_ Yeah. As if business didn't already control the government.
2001/12/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:23250 Activity:very high
12/15   Bush: "I don't know whether we're going to get him tomorrow or a
        month from now, or a year from now, or in my second term of office. I
        don't really know. But we're going to get him," he continued."
        \_ <DEAD>www.smirkingchimp.com<DEAD>
        \_ Is self-confidence a crime now?
                \_ you misspelled "arrogance"
                   \_ Bush would've spelled it that way.
                        \_ Funny that no matter how well the man does some
                           people are still stuck swallowing leftist media
                           noise.  Do you also think it's ok to sell secrets
                           to foreign powers for DNC cash infusions?
                           \_ Do you have any evidence backing up your paranoid
                              fantasies? URL please.
                           \_ You're as bad as all those people in the Arab
                              world who unequivocally accuse the US of
                              doctoring the bin Laden tape without any
                              actual evidence they it was doctored. Like
                              them believing anything al Jazeira says without
                              proof, you believe anything the RNC says
                              without proof. So unless you actually saw
                              Bill Clinton hand over a pile of secret military
                              documents to another country, shut the fuck up.
                                \_ Amazing.  So unless I *personally* see a
                                   crime take place it couldn't possibly have
                                   happened?  So let's say I break in to your
                                   place while you're gone and steal all your
                                   stuff.  You later find your stuff at my
                                   place but you didn't see me take it.  You're
                                   cool with that?  What's your address?  I'm
                                   coming by for a visit.
                                \_ Congratulations, this is among the most
                                   pathetic posts I've read on the motd.  As
                                   we all know, it was just a vast right
                                   wing conspiracy. Uh huh.
                                   \_ This is nice. You have nothing more
                                      intelligible to say so you retort
                                      with an inane comment. And stop
                                      putting words into my mouth.
                                        \_ Ok, ask yourself why Clinton
                                           was spending his time jerking
                                           off in the Oval Office sink
                                           instead of counteracting
                                           terrorist threats?
                              As for Bush doing well, people said he was
                              doing a great job handling the matter hours
                              after the attacks, even though he didn't actually
                              do anything yet. It was the NYC mayor who was
                              in charge of the situation there, not Bush. But
                              it's natural to rally around your president
                              during a crisis as big as this. The same thing
                              happened to FDR right after Pearl Harbor. Does
                              the fact that thousands of people died all of
                              a sudden make him a great president? No. He's
                              done things by the book and, of course having
                              the largest military in the world, it's not
                              hard to come to the conclusion that we're going
                              to kick the Taliban's ass. In my opinion, Bush
                              has made several critical faux pas, most of
                              which were by his attorney general. His ability
                              to communicate effectively as a statesman (yes
                              it is part of your job as president) has been
                              meager at best and his choice of words an
                              embarrassment to our country. And I don't think
                              he has the diplomatic skills to handle the
                              international coalition in the long term. He's
                              already done and said a lot of things to piss
                              off a lot of countries (the war itself is not
                              one of them - military tribunals, security
                              council veto, planning to wage war against
                              Iraq, etc...) and the only reason why other
                              countries are condoning the US is because we
                              were victims to a horrific attack. Once the
                              war in Afghanistan is over, we're going to lose
                              support and isolated from the world unless
                              Bush changes his attitude. Of course, I'm sure
                                \_ While Bush is no Reagan, compared to Gore
                                   hes the fucking Messiah.  What are you
                                   an ambassador from a foreign country?
                                   Exactly why are we supposed to care
                                   what socialist euro-trash think?  This
                                   argument about pissing off other
                                   countries is ridiculous, yet its
                                   repeated incessantly by the media pukes.
                              there are csua Republicans here who are
                              insistent that "other countries" in the world
                              are irrelevant and that the UN should be
                              destroyed.
                                 \_ You seem a little upset.  Perhaps some
                                    Prozac?  I've been waiting for years to
                                    hear exactly why it matters what other
                                    counrties think of us.  So let's say Syria
                                    and Gabon and uhm BFE all decide they hate
                                    the U.S. so much they're declaring war.
                                    They pull their ambassadors out and print
                                    bad things about us in their government
                                    run newspapers and on their governement
                                    run tv/radio.  Ok.  Yeah?  So what?  And?
                                    Still waiting....
                                    \_ If we cared more about what
                                        other people thought of us, we
                                        might not have had whackos crashing
                                        planes into buildings.  That's not
                                        enough reason for you to care about
                                        international relations?
                                 \_ Keep on watching CNN little sheep.
                                    \_ I read the NY Times, not the Drudge
                                       Report. And stop trying to pretend
                                       to be 3 separate people posting
                                       to the motd. I know you posted the
                                       other 2 above.
                                        \_ Nothing wrong with the Drudge
                                           Report.  99% of it is just links to
                                           big media newspapers online.  Unless
                                           of course you have a problem with
                                           big media (which you should if
                                           you're smart).
                           \_ As opposed to selling weapons to foreign powers
                              to fund a rebellion against another foreign
                              power?
                                \_ What's wrong with that?  You really don't
                                   see any difference between selling out your
                                   own country and screwing around with some
                                   little banana republic???
                           \_ Non-sequiteur.
                                \_ Not at all.  Care to try again?  Look up
                                   the word "hypocrite" and come back.
                                   \_ And, while we're at it, how to spell
                                      "non sequitur."
2001/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23197 Activity:very high
12/9    Enron's history
        http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_7142.html
        \_ i can hardly read that article, it's impossible
           to have truly unbiased journalism, but that article's
           smirking tone is too excessive to take seriously,
           there's probably a couple of facts in there, maybe
           you could summarize?  the pittsburgh tribune is also
           owned by the billionaire who has dedicated his fortune
           to destroying bill clinton.  great, that article is
           anonymous!
                \_ Do some research on Ron Brown.  That'll help.  Don't
                   get me wrong, I think all politicians are crooks,
                   including many 'conservatives'.
        \_ Enron gave $2M to the Republicans in 2000 and 1/4 that to Dems.
           http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=E01&Cycle=2000
           Nice theory, but the facts condradict it.
                \_ Oh that's right, Enron's 1990's business deals in China,
                   Africa, and the Balkans (eg. Croatia) were mediated
                   by who else, the all powerful then Governor of Texas.
                   Why go through the Commerce / State department when
                   you have the state government of Texas at your disposal.
                   Enron is metaphor for the (Clinton) 90's.
                   BTW you are right in one respect, the real scandal of
                   Clinton's administration, campaign contributions
                   from foreign sources, was not investigated because
                   both the Dems and Repubs had their hands open.
                   \_ Except Enron is based in Texas, and was a big energy
                      company, and in the pocket of the Republican party.
                      Yeah, except for that, it was exactly like the Clinton
                      90's!
        \_ None of this Rep vs Dem political shit has anything to do with
           anything.  This is just another poorly run 90's company that was
           prepared for good times but not bad times.  There's no story here.
           It's the same as any dotcom that went under just bigger.  Trying
           to say it has something to do with Clinton/Bush is just stupid.
           \_ Perty much. The questions that linger should focus on how
              noone seemed to care that the company was a house of cards
              and if anyone is criminally negligent for it.
2001/11/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23099 Activity:high
11/25   http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm for what happened to the
        Israelis that got picked up.
        \_ article doesn't mention the 995 other middle easterners
        who are also detained under similar conditions.
          \_ So what?  That wasn't what someone was asking about a few days
             ago.  We know there's a pile of arab terrorists and sympathisers
             in prison.  Someone wanted to know about the Jews with the
             cameras.
        \_ face it. You give the poor uneducated Arabs what they want (land
           and food) and the next day they will bitch that you should
           give them more.
2001/11/15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23042 Activity:very high
11/14   Is there a word that describes a body/corporation/government which
        claims to abide by the laws but sets the laws and its interpretations
        arbitrarily?
        \_ Lawful evil.
        \_ We call it a 'church'.
           \_ Yes, in the Temple of the Supreme Court
              \_ Yeah, down with the system, man!
              \_ move along, there's nothing to see here, your man lost by
                 every counting method on the table, get over it.
                \_ not to beat a dead horse, ok fine, read this:
                   http://slate.msn.com//?id=2058603 - danh
                   \_ Big yawn.  The whole Florida election was chock full of
                      votes that probably should have been counted but weren't
                      and votes that were counted but shouldn't have.  You
                      can't pick and choose which piles of valid/invalid votes
                      you'd like to include and ignore all others and then say
                      "my guy won!".
                \_ yes, and i'm still bitter the most powerful man in the
                   world got elected by statistical margin of error,
                   and i don't think anything can happen that will change
                   this, no matter how many "SORE LOSERMAN" t shirts
                   you throw at me.
                      \_ But that is what Bush did! Face it man, that election
                         was well within the standard of error. Bush was
                         elected by mistake. Literally.
                         \_ and if Gore got elected it would have been outside
                            the margin of error?  be realistic.  it was a close
                            race, and whoever came out ahead would have had a
                            statistically insignificant lead.  If Gore had won,
                            that would have been a mistake too.  Who cares.
                            it's over.
                \_ Gore is liar and an ego-maniac.  Contrary to the media's
                   best caricature, he is not intellectual - he's
                   a pro big-government, pro-tax bureaucrat.  Just look
                   at his policy initiatives as VP - they were disasters.
                   BTW, try to formulate an opinion apart from
                   parroting the mass media.  Why are people in general
                   so inclined to align themselves with graduates of
                   journalism school - as if that is a credential to do
                   anything whatsoever.
        \_ politburo
           \_ that's paolitburo
              \_ paoloburrito
2001/10/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22812 Activity:high
10/23   Bush doesn't have anthrax. good or bad?
        "'There's no question that the evildoers are continuing to try to
        harm America and Americans', Bush." More talk of evildoers... why
        do I feel like our pres is trying to run the country like a
        comic book?
        http://salon.com/news/wire/2001/10/23/bush/index.html
        \_ dude, watch starship troopers.  doesn't it remind you of
           CNN and other media sources? --jon
        \_ Uh yeah, it's always good when your leader has anthrax.  Don't be
           stupid.  As far as "evil doers" goes, would you prefer he called
           them "Freedom Fighters" maybe?  Or I'm sure you can find a nice,
           warm, soft, fuzzy, politically correct and ethnically sensitive
           term for mass murderers.
           \_ ummm... how about terrorists?
           \_ He is trying to make up for "those folks" -- that's how he called
              them on the morning of 9/11.
           \_ Clearly our head of state with anthrax is bad... get a sense of
              humor. Though I would not consider him my "leader". The point
              of the "evildoers" comment was regarding diplomacy and maturity,
              not "political correctness". Don't be stupid.
2001/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22790 Activity:very high
10/21   Mommy, why is Mr. Bush wearing matching pajamas and holding hands with
        that short Chinese man?
        http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011020/wl/1003627880china_apec_bush_xvy102.html
        \_ thats cuz hes about to go to bed with the chineses.
                \_ That was Clinton and Gore, pass tense.
                \_ Bush loves China as much as they love him.. very little
                   But he needs China's support in this "war"
                   Bush, Sr. was in bed with China long before Clinton admin.
                   made it a common practice. Many ex-Bush,Sr. appointees
                   worked on their behalf. No one is honest in politics
                        \_ Sorry, you're analogy is wrong.  The Bushs did
                           not relax technology export restrictions for
           marketing department.
                           campaign dollars.  Clinton's foreign policy
                           was run from the Commerce Department.  Not to
                           say the Bushs were perfect at all, but compared
                           to Clinton they are/were angels.
                           \_ Bush Sr. traded weapons to hostile foreign
                              power in order to manipulate the American
                              public and you call them angels? Isn't this
                              exactly what you accuse Clinton of doing?
                                \_ I seem to remember something called...
                                   wait, what was it..?? oh thats
                                   right the Cold War.  This was to
                                   fight Communism, not line his pockets.
                                   \_ This was to defeat Carter, not fight
                                      Communism. Unless you are you going
                                      to try and claim Carter was a Communist.
                                      Communism. Unless you are going to
                                      try and claim Carter was a Communist.
                                      \_ More evidence Pres. Carter was inept.
                                         He was President for petes sakes,
                                         and had over a year to negotiate
                                         for the release of the hostages.
                                      \_ Was that referring to Irangate?
                                         Didn't that happen long after Carter
                                         was defeated?
           \_ "chineses"?  Is that anything like "sneezes"?
        \_ Jiang is an idiot.  Those commies need to learn how to improve their
           marketing department.  Isn't Jiang from Shanghai, and isn't Shanghai
           the most cosmopolitan city in China?  Some subordinate need to tell
           Jiang he is an idiot.
           \_ I heard that Shanghai was once the most cosmo city but not
              anymore.
              \_ it still is.
           \_ Is that where they make all those cool movies?
        \_ After watching the TV clip with everyone wearing the "traditional
           style silk jackets", I have to say that the jackets made Jiang and
           Bush and all the other leaders look like clowns.  Don't know whose
           stupid idea it was.  --- Chinese
        \_ Girl, you should be so lucky to be Mr. Jiang's sixth concubine!
2001/10/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22715 Activity:nil
10/12   "Bush Freezes More Terror Assets"
        http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011012/ts/terrorist_money.html
        What's the use of globally freezing $24M, not all of which being
        bin Laden's money, when bin Laden personally owns $300M?
        \_ Because he isn't carrying it in his wallet and it isn't in a
           single Wells Fargo account with his name on it.
           \_ Don't you know he keeps it under his mattress. That is
              until the taliban completes construction of his money
              bin.
2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36320 Activity:nil
9/17    http://www.workingforchange.com
        A more well-rounded perspective than most news sites.
        \_ Well rounded my ass.  'Here is an idea: tax the rich, and large
           corporations fairly.'  (As if there was such as thing as fair
           selective taxation).
           \_ Is one man's right to a Porsche more important than another man's
                right to eat?  Perhaps one thing we could learn from Islam
                is that we should donate 1/5 of our income towards helping
                the poor.  (Not like Gov't uses that much of our income to
                do so anyways.)
                \_ You are always welcomed to donate your income to
                \_ No one has a _right_ to {food|car|housing}.  You have a
                   right to pursue those things in peace, though.  Liberals
                   never did understand the concept of rights.
                   \_ Many disagree with you on this, including FDR.
                \_ You are always welcomed to donate your income towards
                   helping the poor.  You don't have to do it through the
                   government.  In fact, it is your obligation if you are
                   a Christian.
        \_ Quote from the article: "Already, there have been reports that CNN's
           video of celebrating Palestinians is the same tape played during the
           Gulf War."  Has anyone seen any other news source mentioning this?
                \_ the above was first reported on http://www.indymedia.org
                   but CNN has denied it and I think it has been retracted.
                   one of my more sports fanatical friends noticed the footage
                   had a guy in a tshirt of a football team that didn't
                   even exist during the Gulf War.  - danh
                   \_ Good.  That T-shirt is solid proof then.
                   \_ Good.  That T-shirt is solid proof then.  (Unless someone
                      goes as far as saying the whole footage was just
                      acting in a studio.)
                      \_ I'll bet that CNN took the old footage and DIGITALLY
                         PAINTED THAT SHIRT onto an INNOCENT MAN in order to
                         cement their position as the MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN,
                         PULLING THE LEVERS OF PUBLIC OPINION!!!1!!1!!!!
2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36319 Activity:nil
9/17    Many have probably already heard this, but I just found out. Any-
        one think it may be possible that they shot down that jet in Penn?
        http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7197677.html
        This article also has a great Bush quote:
        "My administration has a job to do...We will rid the world of evil
        doers."
        \_ I heard this before (probably on the motd), but it seems kind of
           unlikely given:
           1) there is evidence that the passengers on flight 93 knew about the
              previous attacks that day and had planned to retake control of
              the airplane.  given that there were ~5-6 hijackers, armed only
              with knives, I think it's unlikely the passengers failed.
           2) there isn't a strong motivation for covering it up.  it would
              have been good press for quick government response.
        \_
        \_ http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,311011-412,00.shtml
        \_ That reminds me of the movie "Executive Decision" where the
           President considered shooting down a hijacked plane.
           President considered shooting down a hijacked plane before it
           reaches US soil.
2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22487 Activity:high 75%like:36307
9/16    US plans to retaliate against 60 nations:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1547000/1547561.stm
        \_ Bullshit. That is not the headline of the story and it's not what the
           story says. Read it again.
2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36293 Activity:nil
9/12    Disgusting
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba0108928d9.htm
        \ What is so disgusting about that? Liberal media beatnicks have
          no clue how to defend a country. Now is the time to arm.
          \_ Conservative recklessness with asserting US power in the world
             got us into the this mess.
             \_ You are 100 % wrong.  Who bombed Serbia? Who was held in disdain
                by the CIA and FBI? Who bombed an aspirin factory in retaliation
                for terrorist attacks? Who emasculated the military and intelligence
                agencies?  Thats youre answer.
        \_ Screw George Bush.  You want a man with backbone?  Get Rudy
           Giuliani.  New York lives forever!
        \_ Screw George Bush.   You impotent Republicans put him in power
           because HE WAS THE BEST MAN YOU HAD.  Hear the quiver in his voice
           as he recites his speeches?  What kind of president lacks
           leadership so badly that OTHER people HAVE to ASK Americans to
           stand behind the president?   If he was any kind of leader, we'd
           naturally look up to him!
           You want a man with backbone?  Get Rudy Giuliani. I'm a liberal
           yes, but that man has CHARACTER! NEW YORK LIVES FOREVER!i
           yes, but that man has CHARACTER! NEW YORK LIVES FOREVER!
           \_ yeah Guilani is great man - cheating on his wife, and living
              with two fags.
           \_ Real patriotic - you should be proud.
              \_ Yeah, patriotism will save lives and keep us out of trouble.
                 Patriotism is the best cure for any ailment.
           \_ the best man we had still beat the best man you had.
2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22427 Activity:high
9/12    Help, we're allied with Sharon and we can't get out!
        \_ A clinton/gore voter no doubt
           \_ A cheney/bush supporter of course
              \_ http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba03b327f42.htm
           \_ A cheney/bush voter of course
                 \_ conservative rag - what can you say?
                    \_ That the article is correct, but House
                       Repubs are also to blame.
2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36285 Activity:nil
9/9/12  [ dumb quote from dumb person deleted. it's just bad timing ]

9/9/12
"Today, our nation saw evil, the very worst of human nature. ... America was tar\
geted for attack because we are the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity\
 in the world. No one will keep that light from shining," Bush smirks.
2001/9/12 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22413 Activity:high
9/12    Evidently there is no circumstances in which the first thought of
        a politician isn't isn't "Shit what lies can i make up to keep me
        from looking bad" ...
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/ts/attack_whitehouse_targets_dc_2.html
        I assumed i was way too old and jaded to ever say this again, but,
        i'm so disgusted.
        \_ How can Air Force One be the target?  It's a moving object and it's
           a big sky up there for a commercial airliner of similar speed to
           ram into it.  And doesn't a 757 fly slower than a 747?
           \_ AF1 was a target while it was sitting on the tarmac. The White
              House and/or Camp David might have been a target.
              \_ But Bush won't be in the plane when it's stiting on the
                 tarmac.
                 \_ There is a window of vulnerability of about 3 to 5
                    mins after the plane lands he is wisked away in the
                    limo.
           \_ You punch in the coordinates and the computer does the rest.
              Its not that hard.
              \_ A 757 can be programmed to seek a moving target with changing
                 coordinates?
              \_ You keep repeating this without understanding my point. The
                 WTC has known gps coordinates. If you give the autopilot
                 coordinates it will steer the aircraft toward the coordinates.
                 All the bastards had to do was to disengage the autopilot
                 a few seconds befor the collision. It takes some training
                 but its not that hard.
            \_ AF1 WAS NOT A TARGET. that's the point. it's all B.S. made up
               because Bush was getting criticized for not getting back to D.C.
               fast enough to avoid criticism. -top
               \_ The article states that af1 and the white house were targets.
                  Maybe AF1 wasn't a target, but I can believe that the white
                  house was. Its not made up bs. There are legitimate security
                  concerns where Secret Service can overrule what the pres.
                  wants to do.
           ram into it.  And doesn't a 747 fly faster than a 757?
2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22403 Activity:nil
9/12    Bush to declare war on Jihad.
2001/9/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22386 Activity:high 50%like:23004
9/11    check news sources.  massive terrorist attacks .  nyc and washington.
        \_ commercial jets flown into both wtc towers and the pentagon.
           world trade center collapsed.
        \_ tv just said 2 more planes have been hijacked
           \_ One F-16 is already airborne waiting for order.  Also another
              hijacked plane hit Pittsburg, and anothter at Camp David.
              Didn't someone say they should
              hijacked plane hit Camp David.  Didn't someone say they should
              hijacked plane hit Pittsburg.  Didn't someone say they should
              install anti-aircraft weapons after that propeller plane landed
              on the White House lawn a while ago?  -- yuen
              \_ the white house does.
        \_ No warning from The CIA.  That lame agency should be overhauled.
           \_ NSA handles a much larger fraction of US inteligence operations
              and has many times larger budget.
              \_ fine, THAT lame agency should be overhauled too then.
           \_ NSA handles a much larger fraction of US inteligence operations\
         and has many times larger budget.
           \_ How do you know they gave no warning?
              \_ Well somebody f&%$ed up, now didn't they? --ulysses
        \_ so is there still class today?
           \_ No.
                \_ Yes.  Checkout http://www.berkeley.edu
        \_ I can't get through to the news sites?  Where can I see pictures
           of the "collapsed" WTC?  I've only see pictures of one tower
           smoking.  It's not possible for it to topple over just like that
           right?
           \_ http://www.sky.com/skynews/video
           \_ yahoo
        \_ thanks to Bush who pours billions of dollars into anti-missile
           defense and forgets about intelligence
           \_ Nothing has been put into anti-missile defense during the
              Bush admin.  I understand that you're ignorant and blindly
              hate all Republicans but at least base it on something that
              looks like a fact instead of whatever you made up in your
              little head.
           one tower at least partially collapsed.
           \_ One F-16 is already airborne.
           \_ One F-16 is already airborne waiting for order.  -- yuen
              hijacked plane hit Camp David.  -- yuen
        \_ The CIA is so lame.  It should be overhauled.
        \_ No warning from The CIA.  That lame agency should be overhauled.
2001/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22357 Activity:high
9/9     Bush calls Cheney and says, "Please come over here and help me.
        I have this killer jigsaw puzzle, and I can't figure out how to
        get it started." Cheney asks, "What is it supposed to be when
        it's finished?" Bush says, "According to the picture on the box,
        it's a tiger."
          Cheney decides to go over to Bush's office and help with the
        puzzle.
          Dubya shows him where he has the puzzle spread all over the
        table. Cheney studies the pieces for a moment, then looks at the
        box, and then turns to Dubya and says, "First of all, no matter
        what we do, we're not going to be able to assemble these pieces
        into anything resembling a tiger." "Second, I'd advise you to
        relax. Let's have a cup of coffee, then put all these Frosted
        Flakes back in the box."
        \_ this passes for humor? liberal elitist
           \_ perhaps not, but http://bushgrammar.com passes for humor in my book
2001/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22217 Activity:high
8/22    Proof that Bush smokes pot - the so-called "surplus" and his
        predicitions of a "quick rebound"
        \_ He's doing a great job. The $300 he gave me almost makes up
           for the money I lost in the stock market since he took over.
        \_ and he named some air force dood to head the military!
2001/8/12 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22088 Activity:nil
8/12    Look, if you want to troll, you'll have to find a source less
        obvious than http://freerepublic.com.
2001/7/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21930 Activity:nil
7/23    Is it just me or does the photo of GW Bush at http://latimes.com have
        him resembling a chimpanzee?
        \_ Hey, chimps are good.  They are the intellectuals and scientists.
           Watch out for those Gorillas though. (hint, Charleton Heston
           and Apes)
2001/7/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21914 Activity:nil
7/23    Almost everyone I've talked to hates Bush/Chenney, yet "the poll"
        shows a 56% approval rating. What's going on?
        \_ What's going on is that you are a dumbshit troll.  I don't hate
           Bush/Chenney.  Most republicans don't hate Bush/Chenney.  Your
           original premise is wrong.
        \_ You are probably talking to commie socialist liberal wacko eco
           nut idiot simps rather than normal decent americans. Most of
           the people in this country like Bush/Chenney.
        \_ no it's not.  it's horrible!
        \_ What's going on is that you're selecting a biased group instead of a
           random sample of the population.
2001/7/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21858 Activity:high
7/19    Headline: "Jenna Bush's federally protected wetlands now
        open for public drilling"
        \_ in the onion two, three weeks ago? oh, DO please keep us
           posted on what you discover next.
        \_ Jenna Bush, future porn star
           \_ Yeah, but wouldn't she haveta get a new stage name considering
              Jenna's already the name of a famous porn star?
           \_ Yeah, but wouldn't she have to get a new stage name
              considering Jenna's already the name of a famous porn
              star?
              \_ You mean Jenna Jameson?
        \_ which one is she?
        \_ Shorter hair (up to shoulder)
        \_ Jenna Bush's "wetland" now open for public "drilling"?  Wow!
                \_ oh boy you got the joke.  have a cookie.
2001/7/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21761 Activity:nil
7/11    I hate Texas and Bush! Long live Davis!
        <DEAD>quicken.excite.com/investments/news/story/djbn<DEAD>
        ?story=/news/stories/dj/20010710/BT20010710005436.htm&symbol=PCG
        \_ This is a very good arguement for nationalizing the power industry.
2001/7/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21725 Activity:high
7/5     The U.N. is your friend.
        http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23510
        \_ I cannot believe that any rational patriotic american
           would wish to abandon the principles of the revolution
           and the constitution for UN lead global government.
           The first thing we need to do is to get that shitty
           organization of american soil and then we need to see
           how well they can survive without our money. And the
           only way the UN is going to get my guns is to pry them
           from my cold dead hands!
           \_ yes! we must sotop soil from organizing! an organization
           of American soil could be devastating for aggriculture in this
           nation!! ...or did you mean "off american soil?"
           \_ It's a joke son.
2001/6/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21421 Activity:nil
6/02    Calling all rice bois: http://www.infatuasian.com
2001/5/24 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21340 Activity:nil
5/23    A well-reasoned argument about why socialist economists are silly.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a394ac341016e.htm
        \_ a well-reasoned argument from http://freerepublic.com? not bloody likely
           \_ Changing what someone else wrote and then responding to it is
              not impressive. --Galen (!top)
              \_ He didn't change anything. -- top
                 \_ Yes he did. (I changed it back.) --Galen
                  \_ this is the liberal mentality, suppress free speech
                  and replace with what you believe is right. fucken commie bitch
           \_ Wow you must be a fast reader.
           \_ So without reading the article you entirely dismiss everything it
              might say because of where it was posted?  Okey dokey!
2001/5/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21259 Activity:insanely high
5/12    Douglas Adams, 2001.
        \_ We take eighteen ounces of sizzling ground beef, and soak it in rich,
           creamery butter, then we top it off with bacon, ham, and a fried egg.
           We call it the Good Morning Burger.
        \_ Hopefully now he'll now know the Question to the Answer of Life, the
           Universe, and Everything... Rest well dude...
        \_ damnit why don't people like Rush Limbaugh, William Shatner,
           Jesse Helms, and other schmucks die instead?!?!?
              \_ Damn it why don't the schmucks in the ACLU, the Sierra Club,
                 Green Peace, NOW, the Green and Democratic parties die
                 instead?!? The world would be a *much* better place without
                 them.
           \_ If you were God, who would YOU rather have in the afterlife
              with you?  That's why....
                \_ There is no God.  There is no afterlife.
                   \_ There is a God, but there is no afterlife for most
                      people (due to the simple fact that they have nothing
                      with which to survive death).
                   \_ There is a God, but there is not "afterlife". If
                      you attain "salvation" its all over, otherwise you
                      keep coming back until you attain "salvation".
                      One attains salvation when one's karma == 0.
                      Its very difficult.
              \_ I would *love* to have good decent people, such as those
                 you mention, they believe in freedom and democracy and
                 \_ Whatever you think of the Bush family doesn't excuse the
                    entire state of Massachusetts for turning a clan of rapist
                 the american way.
                    entire country would be a better place if a Kennedy
                    specific virus was developred and released.
           \_ Uhm, I think "schmuck" is a gross understatement.
           \_ They're like a virus, cancer, or lawn weed. You can poison
              them all you want and they'll never go away, wreaking havoc
              on anything good.
                \_ Yeah, imagine that, people who believe in the U.S.
                   Constitution.  What a bunch of fucks!  I hate that, too.
                   \_ Nobody wants to hear the non-sensical ravings of a
                      loud-mouth malcontent.
To: linden@Eng
                      \_ but that's what the motd is all about.
           \_ They do.
              \_ Sometimes they need to be helped.
                 \_ Oh hey that was almost witty.
                    \_ oooh. That was a burn, man. You sure showed him.

From: adamsd@CERF.NET (Douglas Adams)
Subject: Re: UL prototype...
Cc: dan.mckinnon@canrem.com (Dan Mckinnon) content-length: 3385

> Mr. Adams, I wonder if you would care to post a comment in
>alt.folklore.urban in response to Peter's comments. He probably doesn't
>know you are "into" computers, music, graphics, world wildlife, and so
>on.
>
> Dan.mckinnon@canrem.com
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>PVDL>From: Jym Dyer <jym@remarque.berkeley.edu>
>PVDL>> Douglas Adams maintains that the similar incident (which
>PVDL>> he wrote with Arthur Dent as the protagonist) was based on
>PVDL>> something that actually happened to him!

Yes it did. It happened to me on Cambridge station in the summer of 1976. A
couple of years later I told the story on the radio, and then subsequently
began to come across all sorts of variations of the story cropping up all over
the place. I don't really care whether you believe me or not. I'm simply
relating what occurred. If you are predisposed to believe - on no evidence -
that I am a liar, there's not a lot I can do about that.

>
>PVDL>There are 2 (two) more hallmarks of an urban legend:
>PVDL> 1. In retelling the tale, the speaker always claimed it
>PVDL> happened to him, or a friend of his.
>PVDL> 2. The speaker will not be budged from this claim, and
>PVDL> if challenged, becomes more adamant.

So how would you distinguish this from someone who was telling the truth? If
you say that I'm a lemon and I deny that I'm a lemon and you then say that
it's characteristic of people who are lemons to deny that they are lemons
there's not a lot further we can go is there?

>
>PVDL>In the final analysis, it doesn't matter whether Douglas Adams is
>PVDL>big enough to say that the incident stems from something he heard
>PVDL>rather than something he felt:

How do you kow this? Do you have access to some part of my mind that I don't?

>PVDL>On the other hand, you're posting on the Internet, and Adams wouldn't
>PVDL>know Internet from an alt.sewer.

I do know about the InterNet. Presumably the fact that I'm saying this will
only confirm to you that I know nothing at all about it. I would say that
wouldn't I? Ah. Perhaps I'm an imposter. Why don't you ask me if I am? If I
deny it that will prove that I am because that's what imposters always do.

>

>PVDL> Peter "thought the Hitch-Hiker's Guide was a good idea taken
 >PVDL> a long way too far.   It's been a book, a radio show, a
 >PVDL> tv show, a play, an opera... about the only artform that
 >PVDL> it hasn't been is a tapestry, and there's probably someone
 >PVDL> working on it now" vdL.

The Hitch Hiker's Guide has not been an opera. It has however been a tapestry,
if you count a woven bath towel as a tapestry. Careful with your facts. That's
how myths start.
           \_ Get over it.  One could easily ask why the Bush clan scum are
              still around.  How many rapes and murders does it take?  Oh yeah,
              they're ultra dumb crack-smoking fascist so it's all ok.
           \_ Get over it.  One could easily ask why the Kennedy clan scum are
              still around.  How many rapes and murders does it take?  Oh yeah,
              they're ultra leftist so it's all ok.
              \_ Don't mock the Kennedy's. The Kennedy's can kick the Bush's
                 ass and their "compassionativity" any day.
              \_ Whatever you think of the Kennedy family doesn't excuse the
                 entire state of Texas for turning a clan of rapists and
                 murderers into heros.  And I wasn't mocking them.  The
                 entire country would be a better place if a Bush
                 specific virus was developed and released.
                 \_ At least the Bush clan believes in freedom, progress
                    and prosperity, unlike the Kennedy's who want to keep
                    us all in miserable poverty and servitude (to them)
                    for the rest of humanity.
              \_ How many Kennedys are ALREADY dead? Ever study them? Tragedy
                 everywhere.
                 \_ Not enough.  Not nearly enough.

\_ Who is "linden@Eng?
        \_ he's just this guy, you know?
        \_ I think it's Peter van der Linden at Sun, author of Just Java
           and Deep C Secrets.
           \_ yes it is. -alexf
                    \_ You are right they breed way too fast.
          \_ this rules, you guys can even turn the death of a great
             author into a flame war.  carry on.
             \_ "Great author"?  *pshaw*  hardly.
                \_ then why'd you read all his books then?
             \_ Who asked you?  No one needs your permission to have a flame
                fest.
2001/5/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21247 Activity:nil
5/12    http://www.insightmag.com/archive/200106047.shtml
        Blue team?  Red team?  It all sounds racist to me.  GWB is hiring
        these guys by the bucket.
2001/4/30-5/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21142 Activity:insanely high 66%like:21883
4/30    Motd poll: Do you smoke cigarettes?
        yes
        yes, unfortunately ..
        no .....
        no, unfortunately .
        \_ Related poll: Do you smoke pot?
           yes .
           no ..
                \_ I never inhaled!
                   \_ Neither did I Mr. President. - Monica
           no, but sat around a bunch of people smoking pot all night long ..
           not anymore .
        \_ What would be interesting is to see a comparison of income vs.
           drug use for same/similar major and GPA.
           \_ Dubya makes tons of money and he used to snort coke.
                \_ $200k/year isn't tons of money and the coke story was
                   rumor.  Gimme the URL that quotes anyone anywhere saying
                   they got stoned with GWB or saw him do lines or whatever.
                   And no, sticking it on your own website doesn't count,
                   smart ass.
                   \_ he made millions selling an interest
                      in the state funded Texas Rangers
                   \_ Its $400K a year for the president these days.
                        \_ No.  It isn't.  Dumbshit.
                           \_ No its $400K:
            http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/07/16/presidential.salary
                                  \_ This is only a bill.  Where's the part
                                     that says it was passed and signed into
                                     law by Clinton?  We still have laws in
                                     this country, one of them says the
                                     President must sign the final bill for a
                                     new law to take effect.
                                     \_ Its $390K actually:
   http://usgovinfo.about.com/newsissues/usgovinfo/library/weekly/aa012101a.htm
                                        \_ thank you for posting a real link
                                           with reasonable info instead of
                                           more noise about unsigned bills.
                   \_ Former oil men tend to make more from investments than
                      than from salary. Try $894,880.
                   \_ No fair, I wanted to stick it on my web site, http://cnn.com.
                      - Ted Turner
                        \_ *laugh* Sure, Ted, I'd love to see it on http://cnn.com.
                           You're exempt from this rule as long as you pay
                           off our U.N. "debt" with personal wealth.
2001/4/27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21117 Activity:nil
4/27    Which Bush daughter is the lesbian?
        \_ The straightforward application of Murphy's Law implies that
            it is the prettier one.
        \_ It's Cheney's daughter that is the lesbian.
2001/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20702 Activity:nil
2/26    Miami Herald reports Gore would've lost anyway with a full
troll   manual recount: http://www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount
troll   \_ I was going to post that.  Damn it.  I'm going to post it anyway:
           http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-02-25-recount.htm
troll   \_ Your corporate masters have spoken. Go back to sleep. Democracy
           is safe in our hands.
troll      \_ Uh huh... and if they said something different, you'd be the
              first screaming for GWB to resign.
              \_ No, I voted for Nader. The Republicrats are all scum.
troll   \_ Oh Yeah. "Let Every Vote Count!" Bush should've let it happen,
           and then said to Gore "Looser!". We all knew Gore lost.
troll      \_ You mean let DNC shills steal it?  And the word is "loser",
              not "looser".  "looser" is yermom.  Went to a diverse school,
              did you?
2001/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20697 Activity:high
2/26    Miami Herald reports Gore would've lost anyway with a full
        manual recount: http://www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount
        \_ I was going to post that.  Damn it.  I'm going to post it anyway:
           http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-02-25-recount.htm
        \_ Your corporate masters have spoken. Go back to sleep. Democracy
           is safe in our hands.
           \_ Uh huh... and if they said something different, you'd be the
              first screaming for GWB to resign.
        \_ Oh Yeah. "Let Every Vote Count!" Bush should've let it happen,
           and then said to Gore "Looser!". We all knew Gore lost.
           \_ You mean let DNC shills steal it?  And the word is "loser",
              not "looser".  "looser" is yermom.  Went to a diverse school,
              did you?
2001/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20654 Activity:nil
2/22    Bush = Oligarchy
        \_ Oh, and the president was arrested for murder. More and
           that tomorrow night. Or you can turn to another channel.
        \_ Oligarchial, hedgemonic plutocracy if you want to be
           specific.
           \_ hegemonic, even
2001/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20475 Activity:nil
1/30    bush's self-fulfilling recession has just begun.
2001/1/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20432 Activity:nil
1/25    bush is a moron. lets see how long it will take for the
        motd gestapos to censor this.
        \_ can I just say I'm sick of political bashing. If you
           have a specific issue that isn't an emotional vent,
           post it. Otherwise keep yer political judgements to
           yourself.      -Lifelong Berkeley Liberal who wants
                           everyone to rise above it.
                           \_ I pity you.
                                \_ I'd hope the Liberals can
                                   rise above it, because the
                                   conservatives obviously can't.
2001/1/25 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20428 Activity:very high
1/24    "'I think the evidence is going to become more and more clear that the
        economy is not as hopeful as we would like, which I hope will strengthen
        my case (for a tax cut)," Bush told reporters at the start of the
        meeting."
                \_ I read an interesting discussion on why simplistic view
                   of economics is fundamentally flawed.  What if the
                   economy was in a boom cycle?  Does that mean the
                   reverse is true, that it's time for a tax hike?
                   How would Bush explain this one?
                   \_ It means the economy is doing well _despite_ higher
                      taxes.  Taxes, fees, and regulations hinder economic
                      growth.  The right idea is to set tax levels and other
                      regulations at a high enough level to maintain infra-
                      structure, run the government, do some social welfare,
                      and keep the water drinkable, while limited economic
                      impact as much as possible.  It's a delicate balancing
                      act.  There is no good time for a tax hike, economically
                      speaking.  Taxes are a relatively new concept compared
                      to economics over the course of human history.
                        \_ What are you talking about?  The Romans had
                           taxes.  Is 2000 years relatively new?
                           \_ Yes.  And would you point to a dead and failed
                              mess like Rome that collapsed under it's own
                              weight and mismanagement, not outside influences
                              as a successful way to run a nation?  Yes, the
                              Romans got beat on by various 'barbarians', but
                              taking a step back, it was their own fault they
                              got pounded.  It didn't have to be that way.
                              \_ You dumb, he wasing arguing for the Roman
                                 system or a tax system.  His point was that
                                 2000 years isn't new.  Besides, how do you
                                 foresee the US isn't going to collapse under
                                 its own weight and mismanagement?
                           \_ And the Chinese had taxes 4000 years ago too.
                           \_ As well as a slave-based economy, massive
                              inflation, and not much of a trade deficit,
                              compared to the US.  -John
                                \_ And they drank from lead cups, wore togas,
                                   and had cool parties.
                           \- The Romans certainly did it "their way" --psb
                           "... a capital levy often defeats its own
                           purpose. The return was at once seen to be
                           disappointing. From virtue or from caution,
                           men refused to purchase estates as they came
                           on the market. Money soared in value.
                           The Triumvirs then imposed a levy on the
                           posession of opulent females, arousing
                           indignant protest ... other taxes, novel and
                           crushing, were invented ..."
                           --Sir Ronald Syme, The Roman Revolution, Book XIV.
2001/1/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20426 Activity:nil
1/24    The young left comments on GWB online:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53300-2001Jan12.html
2001/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20414 Activity:very high
1/22    BUSH SR: Well, did you meet George?
        ADMISSIONS OFFICER: Oh, yes.  He made light of my weight problem,
        then suggested my motto be "semper fudge."  At that point, he told
        me to relax
        BUSH SR: How were his test scores?
        ADMISSIONS OFFICER: Let's just say this: he spelled "Yale" with a six.
        BUSH SR: I see.  Well, I -- ooh, you know, I just remembered, it's
        time for my annual donation.  I wonder how much I should give.
        ADMISSIONS OFFICER: Well, frankly, test scores like George's would
        call for a very generous contribution.  For example, a score of 400
        would require a donation of new football uniforms, 300, a new
        dormitory, and in  George's case, we would need an international
        airport.
        ADMISSIONS OFFICER: Yale could use an international airport, Mr.
        Bush -- Then maybe a stock exchange market.
        \_ http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F05.html
           for those who don't get the reference.
        \_ Bush, Jr: At this rate I probably won't even get into Vassar!
           \_ BUSH SR: I've had just about enough of your Vassar-bashing,
              young lady!...er..sir!
        \_ Yawn... don't surprise us... you voted for the two time college
           drop out because he's so smart, right?  But I'm sure that wasn't
           reaaaaally like flunking out, he, uh, decided to go serve his
           country or something, instead, right?  You'll "get it" one day,
           but that day obviously hasn't arrived yet.
           \_ he's not just mocking bush, he's mocking the yale addmissions
              office, which richly deserves it.  If you are from an influential
              family or have a desired athletic talent, yale will let undergads
              in pretty much automatically.
                \_ And at what private school is this not true?  Even Cal does
                   this although they don't say so in the catalog.  :-)
                   \_ I thought Cal let you in based on the results of a
                   \_ I thought Cal lets you in based on the results of a
                      random number generator.
                      \_ yes. it's called the SAT.
2001/1/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20398 Activity:low
1/21    Rate the Gore daughters vs. the Bush Daughters (regardless of
        your political affiliation).
        \_ No
2001/1/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20397 Activity:moderate
1/21    First-twin Jenna secures her dress(rating 2):
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20010120/us/inaugural_balls_0t9.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20010120/us/inaugural_balls_9ek.html
        \_ Wow.  Finally a nice piece of ass in the WH.  Soooo tired of seeing
           Chelsea's ugly face.
           \_ the devil is always attractive
        \_ the lecher
        \_ wow.  Jenna bush can like do me.
           \_ scratch that I just saw a picture of Barbara Bush II
              (bushtwins.twinstuff.com)  she's a yale biotch.  19.
              \_ I prefer that you not refer to Clown College that way.
              \_ They're twins?
                 \_ yeah, the kind that don't look like each other.
                    fraternal, not identical.
              \_ Hey, they're better than Chelsea. I'll do 'em.
              \_ So when do we see "The Bush twins" in playboy? I mean,
                 with a name like that, how could they not?
                 \_ fortunately, they're shaved!
2001/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20393 Activity:nil
1/20    Daughter Bush almost flashes national audience.
        \_ urlP?
           \_ I never understood this xxxP thing. What the heck is that P?
                \_ Insufficient lisp.  Mine more lisp.
2000/12/30 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20196 Activity:moderate 75%like:20190
12/27   Bush is a machine.      -mogul
        \_ The smart one or the dumb one?
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52767-2000Dec26.html
        \_ Bush won.  Get over it and enjoy the lower taxes.
           \_ No new taxes this time?
              \_ He never asked you to read his lips.
              \_ He's from Texas. Texas is an anagram of taxes.
              \_ Yup.  Having learned not to trust the Democrats, that
                 mistake won't be made twice.  Never deal with people who
                 put party politics above nation.  Less than 22 full days
                 left and counting down.  Still looking for a legacy.  I
                 think peace in the middle east is a good one.
2000/12/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20190 Activity:nil 75%like:20196
12/27   Bush is a machine.      -mogul
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52767-2000Dec26.html
2000/12/25-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:20171 Activity:moderate
12/25   In 1555, Nostradamus wrote:
        "Come the millennium, month 12,
        In the home of greatest power,
        The village idiot will come forth
        To be acclaimed the leader."
        \_  I assume you're not so stupid as to be refering to the man
            who will take office on the first month of the new millenium?
        \_ He may not be the sharpest spoon in the drawer but at
           least he's...oh fuck we're screwed.
        \_ ever considered that this might be a hoax?
           \_ it's stupid. this is not the sort of shit nostradamus
              would write. besides, there are no dates in Centuries. -ali
              \_ You actually read the shit nostradamus wrote?
           \_ If this was real, at least it would probably be written as
              "... month twelfth, ...".
        \_ Bush won.  Get over it.  Move on with your life.
                \_ The Republicans lied, cheated, incited to riot, and
                   undermined the foundations of democracy.  Now we're
                   supposed to "get over it"?  Fuck that.
2000/12/23-27 [Science/Disaster, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Computer/Theory] UID:20165 Activity:nil
12/22   Is the math instructor "Hurricane" Wu mentioned below the same
        as the famed but controversial human right activist Harry (Hongda) Wu?
        I heard the latter once was at Berkeley.
        \_ yes
        \_ no
        \_ No.  Prof. Wu from the math dept. isn't human and therefore has
           no interest in human rights.
        \_ Harry aka Hurricane used to work at Los Alamos until he was fired
           for mishandling his tapes.
        \_ Same Wu? The Joy of Lecturing by H. Wu
           http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~wu/lecture.pdf
           \_ The last man on the planet to write about better teaching.
2000/12/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20120 Activity:very high
12/17   http://www.aagen.org/hottopics/state/usatoday_991229.htm
        Screw Bush and his token African-Americans.  Clinton clearly had a
        more diverse group of higher talented people without tokenizing any
        minorities.
        \_ You shouldn't wish ill fame on the president, even if what you
           do say is true. I'm sure part of Bush's intentions are PR as
           opposed to Clinton who just like having women around. :)
           The one thing I didn't like about when Clinton took office is
           that the Republicans in power immediately went to work at
           destroying the president's reputation at all costs.  It's not
           very productive to treat politics as a religious war which is
           probably why Bush and Gore said what they said. Having said
           that, it's going to be another 4 years whether or not you voted
           for the president in office and the country will survive another
           4 years whether or not you think so. So probably the best and most
           patriotic thinig to do is to support the new presidency even
           if you are a Democrat. -Gore supporter
           if you are a Democrat. Wouldn't you rather see the country
           prosper than to prove that Bush is an idiot?-Gore supporter
        \_ if bush hires a group of minorities, and they all stand in a circle,
           does that make them a token ring?
           \_ so each person can only talk to the president by passing the
              message the the person next to him/her?  what if the link
              breaks? i say, bush should use an ethernet.
           \_ Yes, a token ring.  You'd be lucky to get 1bps over it though.
2000/12/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20091 Activity:insanely high
12/12   Supreme Court rules for Bush, 5-4.
           /- I've re-worded it, ya crazy sodan:
           |  Of the seven justices that felt there were constitutional
           |  problems, two did not feel these problems warranted a halt
           |  to the recount.  Hence, the 5-4 vote.
                \_ This isn't true no matter how you word it.  Try again
                   and this time use something other than jesse jackson's
                   website as an info source.
                   \_ Dewd.  You are sick.
        \_ 7-2 agreed that there were problems with the Equal protection
                clause.
        \_ 7-2 agreed that there were constitutional problems with what has
                been going down in Florida.
           \_ They agreed that there was not a consistant way to hand count
              votes (ie. the different chads) because of that, there would
              be a question of equal protection under the law. There is no
              law of what a vaild vote is in Florida, except that it is
              determined they the Secretary of State. The problem lies in
              that there is disagreement of whether or not the Supreme Court
              should have interferred at this point in the process. Bush
              wins by litigation.
                \_ Bush wins by having more votes.  Thank you for playing.
                   \_ Gore had more votes...don't be silly.  Not even the
                      Republican lawyers are suggesting the Bush actually
                      received more votes.  Congrats on preventing the
                      recount in Florida while getting one in New Mexico.
                         \_ New Mex. recount was automatic, not requested
                            AFAIK. And AL could have cheated his way to
                            more votes, not quite the same has getting more
                            votes on election day. Spare me your whimpering
                            about under votes, etc. If you really care
                            about your vote, you would make *SURE* that
                            you punched the ballot all the way through.
                            If you can't even bother to do that, your vote
                            deserves to be discarded.
                            \_ Stop using the "F" word!  _F_acts offend the
                               mindless ultra left.  Yes, NM was an automatic
                               recount just like the machine recount in FL,
                               and the automatic recount triggered in Oregon
                               in the Senate race.  Bush had more votes.
                      \_ url?
                         \_ If you didn't notice the other recount, you aren't
                            really interested (If you have to ask, you don't
                            already know)
                      \_ uh, Florida did get a recount.  The count was
                         certified, Gore went to the lawyers, yadda yadda yadda.
                   \- bush wins by delay of game. penalty 150 votes. --psb
                           \_ stupid republican comment deleted
                              \_ COMMIE CENSORS CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
                                \_ Poor babies.  For the poor ultra leftist
                                   clowns who can't deal with the truth I
                                   essentially said that Bush won every vote,
                                   and count and recount using the most stupid
                                   rules invented by Gore's Demo buddies with
                                   ballots manually counted by Gore's Demo
                                   buddies and at no point despite this
                                   travesty of justice was Gore ever ahead in
                                   Florida.  Good bye Mr. Gore.  Nice speech.
                                   Hopefully your last public speech ever.
              \_ and Gore WASN'T trying to?  the votes were recounted, the
                 count was certified, Gore went to the lawyers, yadda yadda
                 yadda.
                 \_ The Republicans hand recounted their districts then
                    denied the Dems the same right. And got away with it,
                    it turns out. Face it, your man stole the election.
                    \_ url?
                       \_ It does not exists, because it did not happen.
                          The GOP did not recount any district by hand.
                    \_ Hello?  Volusia?  Broward?  Only the most heavily 20%
                       Democratic areas in Miami-Dade?  Al Gore did his best
                       to steal it and got beaten down like the mad dog he is.
                       If I wanted spin and lies I could turn on CNN or MSNBC.
                       They do it better than you do and shower more often.
                    \_ I agree that the Republicans "stole the election".
                       The Republican strategy was to not count all legal
                       votes, especially legal votes that could go to Gore.
                       I often had the impression that they were rushing
                       the election to a close.  Not to say that the Democrats
                       were entirely fair, but the Republicans didn't want
                       to play ball and go ahead with a statewide recount
                       (probably those slippery, pro-Gore liberal counters),
                       so the Democrats were forced to pursue recounts in
                       only liberal-heavy counties.
                       I do not agree with the Republican propaganda that
                       valid recounts had been repeated thrice.  I believe
                       Gore's assertion that not all legal votes were
                       counted.
                       \_ Grow up, child.  Gore could've requested a statewide
                          recount but instead chose 3 or 4 cherry picked Demo
                          areas where he thought he could scum up a few more
                          improperly cast votes by "diving the will" through
                          his political surrogates.
                       \_ Yeah, I bet you believe that AL created the
                          internet too. All the votes that were correctly
                          voted were counted by the machine. Hand recounts
                          amounted to guessing which ballots when to Al by
                          people who want him to win. If some stupid fool
                          in FL can't be bothered to check his/her ballot
                          then they don't deserve to have a say.
                       I disagree, too, with the assertion that "the
                       Democrats would have resorted to the same stalling
                       tactics if they had the lead."  In this case, if
                       the Republicans asked for a statewide recount,
                       the Democrats would have accepted.  This coincides
                       with the general principle that Democrats are good
                       (know what's going on) and Republicans are evil
                       (are misinformed).
                       \_ And you base this on what?  Your leftist mindwashing
                          on campus from your drooling babbling communist
                          profs?  WAKE UP!  COFFEE IS READY!
                       \_ Republicans didn't steal anything. The won fair
                          and square under the laws as they existed on
                          election day (ever hear of ex posto facto?).
                          \_ Hey dumbshit. No laws were made by Al Gore.
                             In case you're too stupid to figure it out
                             he doesn't have the power. Figure out what
                             the hell "ex post facto" means before you
                             blab it out on the motd. It is within the
                             FL supreme court to interpret existing laws.
                             \_ 'after the fact', extending the recounts
                                past the original legislative deadline
                                was illegal. The courts can interpret
                                the law, they don't make it and they
                                shouldn't break it as the FL Supereme
                                Court did. Fortunately the US Supreme
                                Court has the wisdom to stop their
                                activisim.
                          GWB was ahead in the initial count, the machine
                          recount and every other count (despite challenges
                          to military ballots).
                          AL's plan for a statewide recount by his vote
                          counters would have amounted to a coup d'etat,
                          subverting the laws in order to win.
                          Furthermore, the GOP did not ask for a recount
                          in states where GWB lost by similar margins. If
                          FL had gone to ALGOR by 500 votes, GWB would have
                          conceeded and AL would be Pres. Elect. Only a
                          Democrat would have the gaul to act as AL has.
                          His behavior only serves to reinforce the general
                          principle that Democrats/Liberals == EVIL COMMIES
                          and the GOP == the good guys. Only Jefferson and
                                                             \_ I take it
                                                                you never
                                                                took US
                                                                history?
                                Let me rephrase, Jeffersonian _/
                                principles are good, Jefferson
                                the man made many scary mistakes.
                                Very few democrats even have principles,
                                so Jefferson is a decent one in
                                my book.
                          Truman have ever been able to transend this
                          principle.
                          [ Possibly unfair characterization of a liberal
                            removed by author. ]
                          \_ You make a good argument, but I'll have to
                             look at Rehnquist/Scalia/Thomas' opinion
                             in the Supreme Court case.  I think their
                             reasons for voting "no-recounts" are
                             substantively different than yours.
                             \_ Yes. As I understand it they said no
                                recounts because of two reasons. First,
                                the choice of electors belongs to the leg.
                                branch not the jud. branch according to the
                                constitution. Second, partial recounts w/o
                                standards violates equal protection under
                                the 14th amendment (as I recall).
                                I'm basically saying that what AL did was
                                not the right or proper thing to do for
                                a gentleman and a president.
                                     \_ they gave up b/c it was going to
                                        be "too big a mess."  what a cop-out.
                                        \_ You went to the Jesse Jackson School
                                           Of Logic.  I can tell.
                                \_ I'm not sure you're right about the
                                   first part and will have to check.
                                   The second part would suggest that
                                   if the state court a) extended the
                                   deadline to the 17th and b) more precisely
                                   explained how re-counts would be conducted,
                                   and explain how it would not be a violation
                                   of equal protection -- if the state court
                                   did both of these things, the U.S.
                                   Supreme Court would have let the recount
                                   go on.
                                   \_ They extended to the 26th.  Not 17th.
                                   \_ Yes, that is correct.  Despite the
                                      democratic cries of a partisan Supreme
                                      Court, a timely recount with a statewide
                                      standard would have been allowed.  This
                                      seems so obvious that I find it puzzling
                                      that the Democrats didn't push for it.
                                      The only explanation I see is that they
                                      really were fishing for votes.
                                      \_ I don't know what it's like to be
                                         a liberal Florida Supreme Court
                                         justice, but it looks like what
                                         happened is that four justices
                                         produced a hasty, poorly thought-out
                                         decision, in order to meet a Dec 12
                                         safe harbor date.
2000/12/10 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20059 Activity:high
12/8    Welcome to the United States of Texas. All hail Emporor Bush.
        \_ Your spelling proficency is quite awe inspireing.
           \_ That's how Bush would have wanted it spelled.
                \_ 4 years from now there will be absolutely no
                   difference no matter who's in office: the country
                   is run by bickering idiots who can't get anything done,
                   who care more about their own pockets and party
                   politics than public welfare or the well being of
                   the greater country and world about them.
                   \_ Well, if you had supported someone else
                      during the primaries we wouldn't have had a fucking
                      idiot like Bush or someone as off-the-wall as
                      Gore running against each other.
2000/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Finance/Investment] UID:19958 Activity:nil
11/30   How the fuck can the stock market go any lower? All my holdings
        have P/E ratios of 10. Fuck.
        \_ That's because our economy is dictated by idiot investors,
           brokers, what not... why graduated from a business majors
           and base things on arbitrary rules. The economy doesn't work
           logically. It works based on whay idiots tell us to think.
        \_ What are they.  I wanna buy some.
                \_ At last prices consistent with reasonable ideas of valuation.
                        \_ shut up, nweaver.
        \_ Thank Mr. Gore.
                \_ it's absurd to blame the market problems on the election.
                   The market is down because dozens of major players have
                   missed expectations and warned of difficult conditions
                   ahead.  -tom
                   \_ Hey Tom.  What are you gonna say when the market will
                      bounce once this bullshit is over?
                      \_ tom will say that the market will bounce once Bush
                         is sent packing back to texas. No bias there.
                        \_ I actually don't think the market's gyrations are
                           affected much one way or the other by who the
                           president is or isn't.  It will bounce back when
                           companies start reporting good earnings again. -tom
                           \_ Several companies have good earnings, yet they
                              are down, way down. Why? Major Investors are
                              spooked by ALGOR's reluctance to adhere to the
                              rule of law.
                   \_ Uh, Cisco, Sun are down because they missed expectations?
                      No. They are down because investors are worried that ALGOR
                      will somehow succeeed in stealing the election and become
                      Pres. Gore is bad for the country and major investors know
                      it, that's why they are pulling out. If Bush becomes Pres.
                      (the office which is rightfully his under the constitution)
                      the market will go back up as major investors will begin to
                      reinvest.
                      \_ Is that why all those tech CEO's pledged $$ to Al Gore?
                          \_ major investors (institutional) != tech CEO's.
                             major investors == mutual funds, brokerages, banks
                             And not all tech CEO's were nimrod ALGOR supporters,
                             Chambers, McNeely, Dell, made the right choice and
                             backed Bush.
           \_ You ain't seen nothin' yet. - Al
              \_ I'm sorry. You must be a Gore imposter. Everyone knows he
                 would instead say "You... have... not... seen... anything...
                 ... ... yet."
                 \_ Al is not only the inventor of the internet, but also
                    an 3113T H@XOR. He's probably posting from his R00T SH311!
2000/11/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Computer/Networking] UID:19923 Activity:moderate
11/27   What is a WINS server? I'm looking on Microsoft's site and it appears
        to just be a DHCP server. Except Microsoft says it developed both
        DHCP and WINS and has submitted them to be new official computer
        standards. Does WINS also do SAMBA type stuff?
        \_ Microsoft invented everything. And once we can get Bush 2.0
           finally installed in office, we can get rid of this anti-trust
           suit so every computer-term can be re-named back to it's
           rightful owner: Bill Gates. Then we can start paving the Bay to
           reduce my commute-time, cutting down the trees to make room
           for more housing, and removing these high gasoline taxes.
              \_ My aren't we hostile. No one can be sure if Bush will
              a republican but by a Democrat.
                 go easy on M$. Many felt that RWR would stop the AT&T
                 breakup but he pushed harder than the Carter Admin. to
                 complete it. Bush may also do the same. Gore may not
                 (several members of his family work for M$).
                 Now as for the rest of your rant, if you are so enamoured
                 on "nature" and the "environment" why don't you log off
                 and leave civilization and go live in the forest as
                 primitive man did.
           \_ Well, everything except the internet, which was invented not by
              a Republican but by a Democrat.
        \_ Microsoft invented DNS too.  It's called Digital Nervous System.
        \_ Microsoft also created DNA.  Distributed interNet Architecture.
           DNA is the precursor to .NET.
        \_ A WINS server is Microsoft's pre-DNS MS-only idea of how to do
           name <-> IP resolution.  It's pretty brain dead.  If you have some
           specific questions, post again and I'll do my best.
2000/11/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19853 Activity:nil
11/19   Daley isn't going to last a week once he gets back to Chicago.
        WPB: Bush+12 with 20% counted.  Broward: Gore+57 with 33% counted.
        At least he'll still get to vote after they bury him.
2000/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19831 Activity:nil
11/16   If Gore wins, 30 states will succeed from the union
        \_ California shouldn't need this election as an excuse to cecede
           (yes it's "cecede" troll) from the union.  We have all the good
                        \_ Try "secede" you loser spelling-god wannabe.
           stuff.  Without the United States we would have the 6th (new
           figures?) largest economy in the WORLD.  Think about it.  It's a
           good plan.
        \_ Hi troll.  This is the dumbest thing posted on the motd in at least
           6 months.
                                     \_ I would hope all 50 would.
                                        \_ Bush supporters also tend
                                           to have the same level of
                                           vocabulary as Bush himself.
                                           \_ Typical leftist.  If you can't
                                              win, smear, smear, smear.  They
                                              \_ smear? You dumbshit. Everyone
                                                 knows Bush is a crack smoking
                                                 idiot. Even Republicans
                                                 know that. Even his dad. It
                                                 has nothing to do with who
                                                 wins this damn election. The
                                                 guy can't say an English
                                                 sentence without fucking up.
                                                 \_ So, the ends justifies the
                                                    means?  It's ok to steal
                                                    the election is the end
                                                    result is what you want?
                                                    Wow... how naive of me to
                                                    think The Will Of The
                                                    People still mattered....
                                                    \_ The Republicans stole
                                                       the election by hand
                                                       counting ballots in
                                                       Republican majority
                                                       counties then refusing
                                                       the Dems the same right.
                                              voted, Bush won.  They recounted,
                                              Bush won.  They're in court now,
                                              Bush is winning there, too.
                                              The recounts aren't _creating_
                                              enough new Gore votes to change
                                              anything.  Bush won.  The
                                              overseas votes are 5:3 (R)
                                              voters, Bush won.  Give it up.
                                              You've been in the Bay Area too
                                              long.  Even my coworkers who
                                              voted Gore are saying he lost
                                              and should give it up.
                                              \_ The Republicans stole the
                                                 election, not Gore.
                                              \_ Err ... I also think Gore
                                                 should give up, but that
                                                 doesn't mean I should like
                                                 Bush Jr., or have any
                                                 confidence in his vocabulary.
                                                 \_ This isn't about GPA's,
                                                    even though Bush's GPA
                                                    was higher.  It's about
                                                    stealing the election
                                                    through the courts with
                                                    PR blitz assistance from
                                                    the slanted press.
        \_ Then they will be rogue states.  Hope they can defend themselves.
        \_ good riddance
        \_ So if 30 succeed, will the other 20 (not incl PR and DC) fail?
        \_ I'd like Gore to take a road trip from East to West Coast.
           I dare him to try to find a path through Democratic States.
           He won't be able to without being forced to cross through
           Republican country (can't leave the U.S. borders, of course).
           \_ Who cares? They're a bunch of gun hugging hicks who marry
              their cousins.
                \_ We leftist call that "fly over country".  Driving is for
                   plebes.
        \_ This must be a troll. Republicans know better than to call for
           secession based on the results of an election; we value the laws
           of the land (unlike most democrats).
           \_they would cecede because this has become a nation of lawyers
             not laws. Al Gore can win an election by a judge and not law.
             So why note cecede and keep the constitution the way it was meant
             to be?
        \_ You people are all fucking pathetic.  This is almost-but-not-
           quite above the level of knuckle-dragging trash talking you get
           in an 8th grade pickup basketball game.  I'm ashamed to have
           graduated from the same educational system that spawned people
           as incapable of rational thought as yourselves.  And the worst
           of it is, you get to vote on my taxes.  Spite, contempt,
           vitriol.  -John
                \_ Hi John.  If they voted intelligently, they'd be lowering
                   your taxes.  Intelligently = can read a ballot and poke
                   1 hole per candidate.
                   \_ Is there more than 1 hole per candidate?
                        \_ In Florida, some morons voted once for Al Gore
                           and a second vote for that nice Joe fellow because
                           he's a nice boy, you know?
2000/11/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19821 Activity:nil
11/16 More important than what the media talks about is what they don't.
      A few items no longer or never mentioned:  James Car-Vile, Jesse
      Jackson and the "it's another Selma!" brigade, the confused people,
      Hillary!, Bill, any senior Democrats publicly stating their support
      for Al Gore (Wexler's mewling doesn't count), Wexler, Al Gore's
      attempted coup, election fraud, the networks calling Florida 70+
      minutes before the pandhandle polls closed (when working repubs are
      going to the polls), the networks calling Gore states instantly and
      waiting hours to call Bush states creating the false appearance that
      Gore was sweeping the election.  And finally a comment on GWB: GWB is
      clearly too stupid to realise you can't fight the Democrats on their
      own terms, so here he is plowing forward, day after day, pretty much
      ignoring the media, polls, and everything else, not really fighting
      too hard, just kind of being there, doing something the Dems have
      never encountered before: saying "No".  Bye Al.  Your career is over
      no matter what you do.  I've met Bill Clinton, and you sir, are no
      Bill Clinton.
      \_ Bill Clinton is my hero!
         \_ Bill Clinton was the best president we've had for a generation.
            \_ I'm da MAN! - BC
      \_ Another thing you never hear in the press: the fact that the
         Republicans have hand recounted Republican majority counties
         in Florida and added them to George Bush's votes and now want
         to stop the Democrats from doing the same:
         http://orlandosentinel.com/elections/1110sem.htm
         This is conservative newspaper who endorsed Bush, if you doubt
         the source.
         \_ Nyet, Comrade!  These votes were put through the machine again,
            despite what your pro-American yankee pig dog lying media would
            have you believe!  They were not hand counted by hundreds of
            people sitting in a room guessing how pregnant a chad is.  Try
            again.  Hail to the Emperor, Gore!  We must try harder in the
            future to persuade the public our lies are true!  Truth is media!
            The media is us!  Will of the People!  We are the Majority Party!
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19798 Activity:nil
11/16   http://Salon.com still living in fantasy land:
        http://salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/16/flunk/print.html
        \_ Salon is always in fantasy land. The only redeeming
           quality, is that this bs doesn't masquerade a front
           page news like it does ny times.
2000/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19781 Activity:high
11/14   More statistics.  See?  I said they cut both ways:
        http://www.theamericanenterprise.org/hotflash.htm
        Pick the numbers you like based on whatever methodology is more
        favorable to your political agenda and go for it.
        \_ "He was a policy adviser to Governor Bush during the election"
           well, duh. this is going to be unbiased! this article makes
           a bunch of unsupported assertions.  not the same league.
           \_ You missed the point.  The point is that anyone can make up
              anything they like and *prove* it with statistics.  I didn't
              say he was unbiased.  I said exactly the opposite.  Duh.
              \_ well, there's prove and there's "prove."  mentioning that
                 "1+1=2, therefore adding 1 to a number doubles it" uses
                 statistic to "prove" something, but the fallacy is pretty
                 obvious here. The fallacy is not in the statistic, the
                 statistic is correct. it's a logical fallacy. just because
                 one argument is fallacious doesn't mean it's pointless to
                 argue the subject, or that stats are useless.
2000/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19780 Activity:low
11/14   Warp Gore or Bush. http://www.fearthis.com/warpimages/pres.shtml
        \_ Lame. Gore already looks like a retard, and Bush already looks
           like Alfred E. Neuman.
2000/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19767 Activity:nil
11/13   I went to Joshua Tree NP last weekend and saw George Bush's
        long-lost cousin, Paperbag Bush:

        http://biology.fullerton.edu/courses/biol_340/web/Joshua_Tree/Paperbag_bush.JPG

        It appears smarter than W.
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19760 Activity:high
11/13   Al Gore's actions are making me respect Richard Nixon's decision
        in 1960 vs John F. Kennedy.
        \_ Republicans are so funny.  The exits polls all showed Gore
           winning Florida comfortably.  First Bush wants to keep things
           \_ You're citing inaccuate exit polling as proof?  get real.
              \_ DUH! ABC News and CNN *GAVE* Florida to GORE. Just
                 because the people seem to have vote differently is
                 no reason to take it back.
           out of the courts, then he files suit.  First he wants the
           electoral process to run it's course, now his bother's
           secretary of state is imposing bullshit deadlines.  You
           are all fucking hypocrites who want to win so bad that you
           are willing to overlook the most important issue: whoever
           got the most votes in Florida should win Florida's EV.
           \_ Democrats are so funny.
              First Gore says "I'll abide by the outcome of the votes,
              no matter which way". Then he gets a recount. Now he's
              taking it TO COURT.
              "You all fucking hypocrites who want to win so bad that you
              are willing to overlook the most important issue: whoever
              got the most votes in Florida should win Florida's EV."
              Hint: That's BUSH.
        \_ why?  he got several of his aides to investigate the success
           probability of winning the election by a recount.
           the election wasn't as close electoral vote wise.
           he probably determined it wasn't worth it, and
           gracefully decided not to sue, saving himself time
           and making himself look good.  nixon also spent every
           moment of his life after resigning trying to recast
           himself as a noble elder statesman, it looks like his
           efforts succeeded.
                \_ Gore helped.
        \_ Asking for a recount?  Gore could well win.  He's not accusing
           anyone of fraud, just questioning the accuracy of the votes
           counted.  Was the Nixon/Kennedy electin within 300 votes of
           5M?  --PeterM
           \_ 2 recounts already favor bush.. now Gore wants a hand
           recount so he could get his cronies to fix it.
           \_ Trying to "clean" the results to fit his desired outcome.
              At this point it looks like Gore is willing to take the
              Presidency by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
                \_ you've provided no argument whatsoever that he's
                trying to "clean" the results.
                  \_ What argument?  Jesus Christ!  Take Stat 2!!!  This
                     _should_ be common sense.  No one needs to make a case
                     for whether or not he's cleaning the results.  Gore's
                     team says that's *exactly* what they're doing.  Where
                     are you getting your news from?
                \_ How about "We'll keep recounting the votes until I WIN!"
        \_ Weird how it took a low life like Gore to make the country
                \
                /
           resurrect Nixon as a good man.  I think Nixon was total scum,
           especially after reading some of the tape transcripts, but in
           comparison, he was clearly the better man.  I can't believe I'm
           writing that Nixon was a better man than anyone... what has become
           of our country?
           \_ Watergate brought out the worst side of Nixon. Until that time
              he was a fairly decent man. Everyone has an inner daemon, it
              would be wrong to judge Nixon based only on one (albeit fatal
              flaw).
                \_ I read the tape transcripts.  Nixon was a total lowlife,
                   lower than a mere inner demon could account for.  Gore has
                   proven himself worse.  I still can't believe I'm saying
                   this:  Nixon isn't the lowest man ever in high office in
                   this country.  Gore is.  I'm saddened at the thought this
                   egomaniac might manage to steal the Presidency....
        \_ Before everyone starts LIONIZING Nixon, please read and get the
           facts straight so you're all not REWRITING HISTORY.
           http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/10/nixon/index.html
           \_ Funny.  I got ragged on for using Wired News to quote statements
              Gore made recently in public.  Wired News, a place run by SF
              leftists at the time.  But here someone else thinks that Salon
              is a good source to use for discussing history of 40 years ago?
              Don't quote crap like Salon.
        \_ http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/3/0,5716,57373+3,00.html
           \_ The http://britannica.com article leads me to infer that http://salon.com
              is re-writing history.  I really can't believe http://salon.com,
              here; is there a better source?
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19750 Activity:high
11/13   So anyone here heavily invested in the Clinton/Gore economy?  How about
        that NAS and Dow, eh?  I'm feeling lucky that my 1.5/share high risk
        stock gamble only dropped to 1 1/16.  It's the economy, stupid!
        \_ wait, I thought the economy was Reagan/Bush's, troll.  -tom
          \_ Uh oh, Tom changing the subject again.  Let me spell it out for
             you, Tom, so you can't spin it more than normal:  The market has
             tanked because The Daley/Gore ticket refuses to admit defeat and
             is stealing the election.  Is that simple enough for you, Tom?
             More county shopping announced this morning for the Democrats.
             \_ stop smoking crack and buy a clue: Jeb's State rigged the
                ballot in a Democrat-friendly area so as to feed his bro
                Florida's 25 electoral votes.  this isn't about being a
                Democrat, it's about preventing election fraud.
                \_ Please explain in detail without conspiracy theory, how
                   the Governor of a large state can steal a statewide
                   election, especially in areas under the politcal control of
                   the other party.  What process would this require?  Yeah,
                   I thought so....
             \_ Nah.  I think the market is tanking at the prospect of 4
                years of Bush Jr. as president.
                \_ The market rose the week prior to the election until the
                   DUI story came out and the race tightened. -jor
                   \_ you forgot a question mark.
                \_ Thank you Bill Clinton!  For 8 years of great economy!
                \_ No. The market is tanking because of fears the Gore
                   will be the Pres. for the next 4 years by means of a
                   judicial coup d'etat. Read the Wall Street Journal
                   you'll understand.
                   \_ I am not talking about today.  I am talking about
                      the market tanking over the past several months
                      as it appears likely that Bush Jr. may become
                      president.
                      \_ Duh.  Check the political timeline vs. the market.
                         Don't make stuff up.  Check.  You'll find that Gore's
                         big jump ahead from The Kiss didn't do jack for the
                         market.  It continued to sink all summer.  Nice
                         theory though but next time try checking some facts.
                         \_ Garbage! The market rose nicely from mid-August
                            (Democratic convention) to end of August.  This
                            includes the Dow, Nasdog and S&P.
                            \_ Check a chart.  It was already on the way up
                               before the Dem convention in August until the
                               end of the month when Gore's ratings were up
                               due to The Kiss (which wasn't romantic at all)
                               and then promptly tanked and stayed there.
                               For those incapable of finding a chart:
                http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5Edji&d=1y&c=&x=on&y=on&z=on
                               Hopefully someone who plays the market will have
                               an easier time with this chart than the typical
                               Democrat Florida voter with a ballot.  -N'04!
                               \_ It's the fucking stock market.  Can't
                                  believe you dumb arses are trying to prove
                                  anything from it.  You people really have no
                                  life.
          \_ yet another democrat who states the truth when it best suits him
                \_ you're the one who gave Reagan/Bush credit for the
                   economy, not me.  -tom
                   \_ Tom, why are you a democrat?
                        \_ He feels guilty for having such a high salary and
                           prosperity earned through his hard work while
                           others, barely able to poke a hole in a piece of
                           paper need to cheat their way through life and get
                           4th, 5th, and 6th chances until they "get it right".
                                \_ Do you know Tom at all?  (Do you know any
                                   University sysadmin who feels guilty for
                                   getting paid half the salary they would
                                   in industry?)
                   \_ you forgot a question, Mark!
2000/11/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19748 Activity:high
11/12    What is the purpose of the program called mor in /csua/bin?
         (I'd RTFM, but there is no manpage) ----ranga
soda 11/12 22:34 ~> more /csua/bin/mor
#!/bin/sh

# from http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp
# and some other sites

/usr/local/bin/wall y > /dev/null 2>&1
/usr/games/fortune /csua/lib/olestra/gwbush-quotes-10-08-2000.txt | /usr/local/b
in/wall
        \_ Why don't you just run it and see dummy?
\_ This may be the program, but the purpose is clearly to be
   an ass, and catch typos.
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19744 Activity:very high
11/12   Ok, so WPB had a lot of stupid people so they're getting a "do-over".
        Why are they also recounting 3 other heavily Dem counties?  I haven't
        heard a reason other than "county shopping".
        \_ Democratic counties are using punch-hole ballots. 32 errors
           per 1000.  The richer Republican counties are using scan-tron
           ballots.  1 error per 1000.  Secondly, Bush's team didn't ask for
           recounts in his Republican counties within the 72-hour legal
           deadline.  Gore's team did.  --PeterM
           \_ So you're all for law and order?  Are you also in favor of the
              5pm certification deadline on Tuesday or opposed because in
              that case, the law doesn't support your political position?
              C'mon.. let's see the twisted reasoning for only following the
              law when it suits your political cause.  Gore is a crybaby and
              is killing this country.  -N'04!
                \_ Actually, I'm in favor of a recount for Bush too.  However,
                   in his rich counties with the scan-tron ballots, he's going
                   to get few new votes because of voting count error.  --PeterM
                   \_ C'mon Peter.  You ducked the question.  Are you in favor
                      of following the law which states that Tuesday 5pm is
                      the deadline for turning in certified tallies or not?
                      This isn't a softball press conference with Barbara
                      Walters.  This is the motd and you can't get away with
                      that shit and not get called on it.
                      \_ I didn't respond because I don't know the Florida
                         law on the 5pm deadline.  I've seen it characterized
                         as an arbitrary rule imposed by the Republican
                         Sec'y of state and not a law at all.  If it is a law
                         it should be followed, unless it is contradictory
                         to some other law, in which case a court must rule
                         on it.  In the absence of credible data on whether
                         the 5pm deadline is a law or not, I have no opinion
                         on the topic.  Is that clear, Mr. X?  --PeterM
                   \_ This isn't something the Democrats want because it would
                      trigger a full check and investigation of not only
                      'irregularities' in Florida but other states as well.
                      The Dems have a lot more to fear from a countrywide
                      cleaning of ballots than the Repubs.  You don't hear the
                      Daley/Gore ticket suggesting this happen and for a good
                      reason. They're not looking for a fair and accurate
                      count.  They're fishing.  Turn it around.  If Gore was
                      in Bush's position would you tell him to sit back and
                      relax and take it like a man if Bush was cherry picking
                      which votes to "clean" and having it done by partisan
                      Repubs?  Uh huh... thought so.  Thanks for playing.  You
                      can try again in 2004.  So will we.  Green in '04!
        \_ rationale is that there were ballot irregularities which may have
           resulted in many ballots being discounted.  more specifically, the
           ballot machines will not read your ballot if there are any
           dangling bits of paper (instead of clean-punched holes).  in a
           race where the ultimate decision may be made on the basis of a few
           hundred votes, it makes sense to be absolutely sure.
           \_ Spoken like a true Gore apologist. Gore wants a recount in only
              Democratic counties so that he can eke out a win handing to him
              by partisian vote counters (they are all Democrats).
           \_ There were irregularities all over Florida starting with the
              media reporting the state went to Gore 70 minutes before the
              heavily Republican west panhandle closed their polls.  Let's
              let all of the panhandle revote!  DO OVER!
              \_ Bah!  It's likely that *more* Republican voters turned out in
                 the panhandle to try to win back the state.
                 \_ You seriously believe that?  Don't be daft.
2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19741 Activity:nil
11/12   So I did some 4 function math on the remaining absentee ballots
        nationwide and calculated, roughly, the percent going to each
        candidate.  53% Bush, 47% Gore.  With about 920k remaining, at
        the current 53/47 split, this will tilt the popular vote to Bush if
        the split remains consistent for rest of the absentees....
        So, this brings to mind a question:
        1: Do any of you think this will pull the wind from Gore's sails and
           crush his Florida hopes or will he continue on with more selective
           hand recounts in an effort to scrounge up a few more FL votes and
           win via the EC without the popular vote?
2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19736 Activity:high
11/11   1% of votes counted in Palm Beach = +19 votes
        That whiny little Bush is going to shit his pants once he does some
        "fuzzy math":

                19 * 100 == ~1900 votes

        Let's face it, the machines are very bad at counting and are the only
        things supporting Bush.  Gore has the true will of the people.
        \_ Uhm, ok, let's do some more math.  That was a county that voted
           Democratic-dominated ones.
           roughly 90% Gore, 10% Bush.  Roughly 9:1.  Why is it that about
           1/3rd of the fucked up ballots went to Bush instead of Gore?  More
           first round vote fraud from the Democrats?  Why did a recount
           produce 3x as many as it should have statistically?  And while we're
           at it, let's try recounting a few heavily Republican counties....
           The only fair way to do this is either accept the first machine
           recount that was done by the machines or recount the whole friggin
           state by hand.  You can't clean up only some of your data and
           expect to get a valid result.  You get a _less_ valid result.  I
           shouldn't have to explain this to a Cal student....
           \_ Dude, get yer shit together.  First off, Palm Beach voted
              62% Gore, 36% Bush (courtesy of http://CNN.com, data taken from first
              count to get a feel for the percentages).  I'll generalize that
              Gore got 2 votes to every 1 vote Bush got in Palm Beach.  Now
              let's look at the new votes they got.  Gore got 33, Bush got 14.
              Hmm, wow, it looks like it's about a 2 to 1 ratio again.  Oh wow.
              So in general, we should see just as many non-counted ballots by
              the machines.  To me, as a Cal student, makes a lot of sense.
              As for the entire state recounting by hand, I say GO FOR IT!  Of
              course the Republicans realize that such a recount could (I say
              could, not would) make them lose, so they are scared of such a
              notion.  And yes, the votes will even out if the entire state was
              counted.  But I have a hunch that more Democrats are less likely
              to punch the holes cleanly and make sure the chad drops.  Let's
              face it, Republicans are typically a bit more in tune to such
              technical things, and are also typically a cleaner and tidier
              group of people.  Yes, that's a stereotype, but hey, that's all
              elections ever come down to anyway.  So go suck it with this
              "_less_ valid result" bullshit.  I want accuracy, not politics.
                -phale, the original poster who finds himself forgetting to
                clean up all of the chad he leaves behind
        \_ They should do a recount in every county then, not just the
           Democrat-dominated ones.
           \_ Yes, that would be the fair thing to do
        \_ Not everyone wants to get gored.
           \_  Good point.  Whereas everybody loves to get a little bush.
               \_ I personally don't want to get dick
                        \_ I uhm, want, uh... GO GREEN!  -N'04!
        \_ PB County is actaully about 2:1 Gore. http://www.pbcelections.org
                \_ Correct.  The precincts they chose to reinterpret
                   were 90:10.
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19724 Activity:very high
11/10   When Bush promises tax cut, how much tax cut is it? I'm a hi-tech
        worker with a 6 digit. How will I benefit from Bush's administration?
        \_ I could be wrong, but one figure I read was from 39% -> 33% for
           top bracket and 15% -> 10% for lowest.
        \_ if you make 100K you only get back $6000 a year. That's not even
           enough to buy 1/2 a car. No thanks to the tax break. I rather
           pay that much to improve our traffic and other social needs.
           \_ Only?  Are you nuts?  Write me a check for $6k since it's
              *only* $6k and I can sure as hell use it.  I'm making 6 figs
              also and will not turn down your money.
           \_ Get Back? Its my money. They have no right to it. And I
              can do some much more with it than some politician spending
              it on crack whores.
              \_ Yeah, you're right. They have no right to spend my money
                 to fund the military to defend me. They have no right to
                 spend my money to build and maintain our interstate
                 highway system. They have no right to use my money to
                 keep our airports running.
              \_ [Tom's bullshit deleted]
                   \_ Gore wants to waste *MY MONEY*. Its *MINE*, I went
                      to work in order to *EARN* it. He has no right to
                      waste it. Now if he wanted to build a missle defense
                      to protect America, I'd be for it. But not for his
                      crack environmental BS.
                      \_ Bush wants to waste *MY MONEY*. Its *MINE*, I went
                         to work in order to *EARN* it. He has no right to
                         waste it. Now if he wanted to pay off our debts
                         to protect our economy, I'd be for it. But not for
                         his bullshit missle defense crap.
                      \_ I prefer a lower tax rate, but I would not spend
                         a cent to build a missile defense system to
                         defend a polluted slump.
                         \_ So when the Chinese and the N. Koreans and the
                            Arabs launch missles on American cities, you
                            will be happy to die?
                            \_ Arabs and N. Koreans?  Are you serious?
                               China would be bombed to stone age if they
                               dare to launch missiles at American cities.
           \_ loser, the government is much more inefficent than the market
           place, its better use of money to keep it and use it in the market
           than giving more money to an inefficient government who refuses
           to make good use of the resources it already has.
        \_ Doesn't matter because, like his Dad, he's not gonna do it.
                \_ wouldn't be prudent at this juncture
                \_ WRONG. He is gonna do it just to prove that Republicans
                   and the Bush family are honorable men. -voted Republican
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19716 Activity:nil
11/10   NEWSFLASH: The official FL vote count is Bush+960 (or so) with 2
        yet to report.  This isn't AP or VNS.  It's the numbers from the
        real thing.  And of course an unknown number of overseas yet to
        arrive over the next few days.
        \_ Give EXACT source for these things
                \_ Sorry.  It was on cnn and other cable channels.  Every one
                   of the national news cable stations had it.  cnn, msnbc,
                   cbs, etc.  Take your pick.  They're all getting this from
                   the same source so it hardly matters which you listen to.
2000/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19709 Activity:high
11/9    Gore went to Vietmam.  Bush cowered at home.
        \_ No, I cowArded at home. Get it right. -gwb
        \_ and the he cowered in Seminary school.
                \_ Until he flunked out.  "Smartest man in the world!"
                   \_ Still, in terms of intelligence and courage, he
                      beats Dan-Qualye-in-cowboy-boots.
        \_ Gore went to Vietnam for 3 months, took a few pics behind the lines
           and went home.  A true hero.
           \_ Wrong.  It's 5 months.  Typical Republican misinformation.
              5 months / 0 = infinity.
              There is no such thing as "behind the lines" in Vietnam.
              (Note: Vietnam Vets serve an average of 1 year in Vietnam.)
              \_ As the son of a senator, Gore spent most of his time in
                 "protective custody". He never went to the front lines
                 in a combat capacity (ie, he was never shot at or shot
                 back). He pulled a few official shifts guarding the
                 barracks. I wouldn't call this being a hero.
                 Okay, Bush served in the NG learning to fly, but at least
                 he didn't burn his draft card like Clinton.
                 All of these guys don't inspire me. Personally, someone
                 like McCain is much better. He was a *hero* and he doesn't
                 brag about it.
                 \_ McCain may be batter, but not because he's a "War Hero."
                    Get over it, the 1950's are over, punkass.  I'd love to
                    see YOU go out and "be a war hero."  War is not glorious.
                    Being in the military really sucks.  You're just another
                    pussy with macho GI Joe fantasies.
                        \_ I dunno if being taken prisoner exactly
                           qualifies one as being a "war hero"
                           \_ Hey!  Don't be so mean.  Bush Sr. also got shot
                              down instead of shooting down Japanese planes.
                              But hey! That's war.  He is still a hero, and
                              in terms of military service:
                                Bush Sr. >> Gore >> Bush Jr.
                 \_ Clinton opposed the war, so he burnt his draft card.
                    Gore went to Vietnam even though his dad opposed the
                    war.  Bush Jr.  does not know what he believes in,
                    but he is too afraid to go, so he cowered at home,
                    and played with toy aeroplanes.
                        \ Bush Jr. flew F-18s. not exactly toy airplanes.
                          \_ When I grow up, I want to be an air force pilot,
                             flying in friendly skies.
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19702 Activity:nil
11/9    Congress and Supreme Court issue order for nation-wide presidential
        run-off election:
        http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19701 Activity:nil
11/8    http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0011/call
a35 46
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19698 Activity:kinda low
11/9    That "recount" is just more commie "fuzzy math". Bush already won!
        \_ it's called obeying florida law, moron.  the existence of a
           recount has nothing to do with party politics.  the way it's
           handled is a different matter.
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19693 Activity:kinda low 60%like:19673 73%like:19688
11/9    http://cnn.com *UPDATED 1PM*: bush +419, Gore +1800.  Bush = Gore + 403.
        58 of 67 counted.  Mostly smaller and a few mid sized ones left.
        \_ [typo corrected, sorry]
        \_ When they say +XXX, does it mean that they miscounted by -XXX
           during the first count?  I find that rather troubling.
           \_ I find your jumping to conclusions troubling.  No, +XXX simply
              means XXX is added to current tally.
              \_ actually, yes it DOES mean that.
              \_ Seems to me your answer is just a restatement of what
                 I just said.  Also, you seem very sensitive.
                 \_ We just have a lot of troubled souls in CSUA.
                    \_ You mean Gore voters don't you?
        \_ Where is your money right now?
                Gore Presidency -- $5
                Bush Presidency -- $7
           \_ Stock Market. I'm a long term investor. I'll ride out
              any storm ;-).
              \_ Ever since Bush started his campaign, my stocks
                 have been losing money! forking shyt
                 \_ you should have been into "drugs."
              \_ from CNNFN:
                "The comments from the Gore campaign this afternoon
                 accelerated the selling," Clark Yingst,
                 market analyst at Prudential Securities, told
                 CNNfn's market coverage.

                Still, Yingst also linked the losses to concerns about
                slowing economic growth that have plagued the markets
                for months.
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19691 Activity:high
11/9    If Bush wins the recount, Gore should have nothing more to say.
        If Gore wins the account, I think we will have a crisis.
        \_ That's what you said 8 years ago about Clinton and we now
           have the best damn economy in the world.
           \_ Thanks to Alan Greenspan, a Republican
              \_ And Ronald Reagan's tax cut in 1981 that allowed
                 businesses to expand and thrive.
                 \_ And Ronald Reagan's victory over Soviet Communism
                    \_ And the Internet Revolution (by Al Gore)
                       \_ Yeah. Al Gore the author of TCP/IP, UDP,
                          FTP, HTTP, BGP, OSPF, RIP, RIPNG and
                          countless RFCs and Internet Standards.
                          Sustanining Member of the IETF!
                          \_ Please post the article where Gore
                             actually says "I invented the Internet".
                             I mean the actual quote. Not where
                             other people says he said he invented
                             the internet but where he actually
                             said it. Oh, of course, you can't
                             find it. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FUCKING
                             EXIST.
                                \_ Wow.  Then when I saw that on a taped
                                   interview, it was a fabrication of the
                                   VWRC that controls the major media?  Is
                                   there a controlling legal authority to keep
                                   the VWRC from completely taking over the
                                   media?  What's the world coming to?
        \_ If Bush wins the recount, Gore will still demand a revote in 4
           counties.
           \_ And while we're at it, let's cleanup the vote tally and check
              how many non-citizens voted *then* do a revote.  Welcome to
              office, President Bush.
        \_ Thanks prodictivity growth in the service sector for the first
        time since yermama was skinny.  -muchandr

{deleted a few older threads to save space, not to censor them}
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19689 Activity:kinda low
11/9    5 secs ago: Bush +405 with 6 counties to go.
        \_ most of the remaining counties (except one) favor Bush.
         \_ in a recount who favors who is pretty much irrelevant as
            they are looking at changes in the total to say +405
            \_ assuming no error in the remaining counties, you can do
                the math.
                \_ but the +405 bush is assuming no error in the remaining
                   counties.  So who is ahead in which county is pretty
                   much meaningless.
        \_ doesn't this feel like that last 40 seconds of a game, but
           the other team is ready to challenge the call?
           \_ can't, there is no instant-reply booth. So the call
              on the field stands. Plus it's under 2 minutes.
              \_ aren't lawsuits a form of instant replay?
                 \_ No. not in the NFL rulebook or USA rulebook (Constitution)
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19688 Activity:nil 73%like:19693 80%like:19686
11/9    http://cnn.com *UPDATED 12PM*: bush +369, Gore +1372.  Bush = Gore + 781.
        55 of 67 counted.  Mostly smaller and a few mid sized ones left.
        \_ [typo corrected, sorry]
        \_ When they say +XXX, does it mean that they miscounted by -XXX
           during the first count?  I find that rather troubling.
           \_ I find your jumping to conclusions troubling.  No, +XXX simply
              means XXX is added to current tally.
              \_ actually, yes it DOES mean that.
                \_ Seems to me your answer is just a restatement of what
                   I just said.  Also, you seem very sensitive.
                   \_ We just have a lot of troubled souls in CSUA.
                      \_ You mean Gore voters don't you?
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19686 Activity:nil 80%like:19688
11/9    http://cnn.com *UPDATED 12PM*: bush +346, Gore +1343.  Bush = Gore + 787.
        53 of 67 counted.  Mostly smaller and a few mid sized ones left.
        \_ [typo corrected, sorry]
        \_ When they say +XXX, does it mean that they miscounted by -XXX
           during the first count?  I find that rather troubling.
           \_ I find your jumping to conclusions troubling.  No, +XXX simply
              means XXX is added to current tally.
                \_ Seems to me your answer is just a restatement of what
                   I just said.  Also, you seem very sensitive.
                   \_ We just have a lot of troubled souls in CSUA.
                      \_ You mean Gore voters don't you?
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19681 Activity:very high
11/8    Business-as-usual vote fraud in Florida:
        http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elocal/digdocs/072105.htm
        This poor woman isn't even dead and got her vote stolen.
        \_ How come our election sounds more and more like fraud-filled
           elections in some third-world countries?
           \_ Because the Dems get caught more often now and the internet
              allows wider reporting.  See Dornan vs Sanchez.
              \_ You mean Republicans, right?
                 \_ No.  Classic Chicago Mayor Daley.  Go pick up a history
                    book instead of a Leftist pamphlet off the ground on
                    Sproul.  Re: Sanchez, a white chick who changed her pasty
                    white name to Sanchez to run for office, had 2000+
                    non-citizens (aka illegal aliens) voting for her.  Enough
                    to steal the election and subvert the law.  Don't be a
                    stupid propoganda spewing thoughtless clown.  Go read a
                    god damned book or just pay attention to what's been going
                    on around you.  Damn, even Nixon let it go in 1960 rather
                    than torture the country after he was robbed.  Gore can't
                    have the decency Nixon had??
                    \_ yeah, and we know that nobody who ever wrote a book
                       had an agenda.  i like books too, but your statement
                       is absurd at best.
                    \_ Oh yeah, The Republicans are all boy scouts and honest
                       and brave and trustworthy and the The Democrats are all
                       lying cheating scumbags. Thanks for setting me straight.
                        \_ You're ducking again.  I never said that.  Don't put
                           words in my mouth or on my keyboard.  Obviously, you
                           have nothing to say but spew and personal attack and
                           no URLs or anything to back up any of your positions.
                           The truth is that you really don't have a real
                           position on anything.  Just mere _feelings_ which is
                           nice and warm and fuzzy and all that and I'm glad
                           you've such a strong faith in your unfounded beliefs
                           but some of us require more than your feelings to be
                           convinced.  --Nader'04!
                    \_ Nixon was cheated by Joe Kennedy and he let it go. Gore
                       lost (after fighting the good fight) and he can't let it
                       go because he is much less of a man than Nixon. (Yes,
                       I'm assuming that Bush will win FL, because if he
                       doesn't a thousand years of darkness started
                       yesterday).
                       \_ "Thousand years of darkness"??? Where are you getting
                           this crap, Revelations?
                           \_ Uhm, duh.  It's a quote.  Grow up.
                       \_ Gore is less of a man than Nixon?  Are we talking
                          about the same Richard Milhouse Nixon who claimed
                          that he would achieve "Peace with honor" in Vietnam?
                          The Richard Nixon who resigned in disgrace?  And
                          it won't be one thousand years, at most it will be
                          40 because that's about how long the Supreme Court
                          judges the next President appoints will be around.
                          That said, how you could possibly believe the
                          judges Bush would appoint would do anything other
                          than try to revert the country to the '50s (i.e.
                          the 1850s) is beyond me.  I guess that Bush
                          supporters share his deep intellect.
                          P.S. If you dig slavery and isolationism, why aren't
                          you a Pat Buchanan supporter?
                          \_ I'm a Nader supporter.  Now then, back to the
                             issue at hand which you clearly want to avoid.
                             If Gore had any decency he'd accept the final
                             tally of the recount and not drag this through
                             endless court proceeding.  End of story.  You're
                             so typically 'Gore'.  You represent everything I
                             hate about politicians like Gore and why I voted
                             for the better man.
                             \_ Actually, I don't support any of the
                                candidates.  What is this better man, decency
                                bullshit anyway?  Dude, if Nixon conceeding
                                the vote makes him such a decent and good
                                man, explain why he later turned into such
                                a fuckhead!  You're so typically 'Nader'.
                                You represent everything I hate about Green
                                party members and why I abstain from voting
                                because all the candidates suck.
                                \_ Figure it out yourself.  Read Nixon's own
                                   words.  You'd *never* find a Gore thinking
                                   stuff like this:
                                http://www.suntimes.com/output/neal/neal09.html
                                   As a Gore slave, this is about something you
                                   wouldn't understand: the best thing for the
                                   country.  Something more important than
                                   Gore's ego.  --Nader'04
                        \_ It's commonly thought Nixon didn't challenge the
                           Chicago results because he didn't want an
                           investigation to turn up Republican cheating
                           downstate.
                           \_ Commonly thought?  By whom?  URL please.  I
                              provided one with full quotes.  Let's see a URL
                              with more than "sources say".
                              \_ You'd rather believe "Nixon says" than
                                 "Sources say"?  I eschew your political
                                 naivete.  --!above poster
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19680 Activity:nil
11/8    Was President Lincoln a Democrat or Republican?
        \_ President Lincoln founded the Republican party.
                             \_ This is technically incorrect.
                                Lincoln was the first republican
                                presidential candidate, but the
                                party was founded by someone else.
                                \_ That's right.  See
                                   http://www.rnc.org/2000/gophistory
           \_ Why did all the southern states vote Republican when
              Lincoln trashed them up so badly?
              \_The Southern States have traditionally always voted
              Democratic until recently. The Southern Democratic states
              have always been the traditional bastion of Democratic
              conservatism, and it's also traditionally been the place
              of getting voting blocks. However, the new Democratic party
              has become, in essence, too liberal. The result is the slow
              and eventual decay of the Democratic party to be replaced
              by the Republican party. In fact, even though they were until
              recentely Democratic, they were at heart conservative socially.
              The South has just recentely shown its true colors.
              \_ The South switched after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act
                 of 1965. White Southerners abandoned the Democratic Party
                 in droves after that, just as LBJ anticipated they would.
              \_ The south and the north have really changed
                 from the civil war days. Back then northerners
                 cared about liberty and freedom. Now they
                 just want to turn America into a big welfare
                 state like europe.
        \_ Back then, Republican party was the more liberal party.
           \_ Back then, the concept of "liberal" and "conservative" are
           quite different from modern concepts. You have to remember that
           in those days America was mainly agrarian. The Republican party
           was the party of Industry and Commerce, while the Democratic party
           was for the agrarian farmer (both big and small). In a sense, the
           two parties have merely evolved with the times. You can see why
           Republicans supported abolishing slavery while the Democratic party
           for the most part didn't. Agrarian economies require large forces
           of manual labor, and the system in place at the time was slavery.
           By abolishing slavery the south was afraid it would destory their
           socio-economic system (which actualleally didn't).
           \_ That's why the Southern economies are booming and vibrant,
              especially when compared to their wealth then.
              \_ Texas and Florida have strong economies. Most of the other
                 states don't have enough people to need a industrial economy.
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military] UID:19679 Activity:high
11/8    Time to forget Florida and just give Bush & Gore each a partner
        from the WWF and let a tag-team grudge match decide the winner.
        \_ Let them duel for it, as great men did in ages past. (a la
           Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton)
                 \_ that would be really exciting.  Or a western style
                    showdown.  or maybe even pitting them gladiator style
                    against each other.
                    \_ Western style showdown would be cool. Showdown
                       at the Dade County Corral. It may not be a fair
                       contest though since Bush is a reasonably good
                       marksman who has a permit to carry a concealed
                       firearm (AFAIK).
                        \_ well we can just give Gore a knife, since knives
                           are more deadly than guns.  -tom
                           \_ In some situations.  This wouldn't be one of
                              them.  Thanks for taking that out of context,
                              though.  You can give yourself a twink point
                              now.
                           \_ Tom that ruled. - tom #1 fan!
                           \_ Yes give them knife and sword so they can
                              settle it like gentlement.
2000/11/9-10 [Computer, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19676 Activity:high
11/8    Miffed at the latest attack on him from Vice President Gore,
        George W. Bush accuses the vice president of stretching the
        truth.

        "He's the man who said he invented the Internet," Bush gibed,
        echoing a common joke at Gore's expense.

        Now let's kill the joke.

        A) Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. In an
           interview with Wolf Blitzer in March 1999, Gore said:
           "During my service in the U.S. Congress, I took the
           initiative in creating the Internet."
           \- i think this is still bogus. when you are handed a list
              of things to fund and you check off a bunch you like,
              that is a far cry from "taking the initiative to
              create". a more reasonable politician would have said "i
              am a staunch supporter" or "lobbyied my colleauges"
              etc. if someone brought you a human genome sequencing
              project to you cong cmte and you decide to fund them, it
              is no more your initiative than it is your money.  --psb
              \_ I read an article a few weeks ago where many of the
                 internet pioneers like Vint Cerf credited Gore.  They
                 didn't mention any other politicians, but said that
                 Gore was instrumental in getting funding for R&D on
                 the internet.  I think what Gore should have said was
                 he took the _political_ initiative in creating the
                 internet.  Obviously the man is a politician and not
                 an engineer and I think it is reasonably clear that
                 he was claiming credit for his political work not
                 anything technical. -!orignal poster
                \_ Gore's statement was not well-worded, but the mockery of
                   it is completely inaccurate.  -tom
                        \_ Welcome to American politics.  All public figures
                           screw up.  The better lines get remembered.  Tough
                           shit.  And I saw the clip where he said this and
                           he made it clear the internet as a concept was his
                           idea.  "I saw all these different research and
                           educational and other big computer places that
                           couldn't talk to each other so I...".  Something
                           along those lines.  The real thing is out there if
                           you care to find it.  In context.
           \_ motd formatting !god was here
        \_ But Gore invented pants!
           \_ URL PLEASE! Stop making blatant accusations and assumptions
              without providing a URL, regardless of the source. Without
              a URL, I am able to discredit all comments ever made about
              pants, but if you provide a URL, even a GeoCities one, well,
              then I'll just sit down and shut the fuck up.

              \_ you are an idiot.
        A) Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. In an
           interview with Wolf Blitzer in March 1999, Gore said:
           "During my service in the U.S. Congress, I took the
           initiative in creating the Internet."
              project to you cong cmte and you decide to fund them, it
           \_ that doesn't sound very different from I invented the internet.
              \_ And I dare say it was deliberately meant to sound that way,
                 while supposedly giving him a way of weasling out now.
                 So he deserves all the flak he gets on it.
                 \_ Obfusication is an art. Gore learnt from the
                    master Bill "I prefer Double-D's" Clinton.
           \- i think this is still bogus. when you are handed a list
              of things to fund and you check off a bunch you like,
              that is a far cry from "taking the initiative to
              create". a more reasonable politician would have said "i
              am a staunch supporter" or "lobbyied my colleauges"
              etc. if someone brought you a human genome sequencing
              project to your cong cmte and you decide to fund them, it
              is no more your initiative than it is your money.  --psb
              \_ I read an article a few weeks ago where many of the
                 internet pioneers like Vint Cerf credited Gore.  They
                 didn't mention any other politicians, but said that
                 Gore was instrumental in getting funding for R&D on
                 the internet.  I think what Gore should have said was
                 he took the _political_ initiative in creating the
                 internet.  Obviously the man is a politician and not
                 an engineer and I think it is reasonably clear that
                 he was claiming credit for his political work not
                 anything technical. -!orignal poster
                 \_ I read the same thing and Vint Cerf recollection
                    of history is flawed. The internet began in the mid
                    60's (before Gore was elected to any office) when
                    the DOD and DARPA asked BBNPlanet to "wire the
                    world". Gore had some minor role in converting
                    ARPAnet to NFSnet, but the DOD created the internet.
                    Some visionary general who wanted to defend America
                    and ensure its survival in a nuclear war created the
                    Internet. Not a weenie socialist named Gore.
                    \_ Under the leadership of Democratic President
                       Lyndon B. Johnson.
                       \_ Despite the leadership of LBJ.
                \_ Gore's statement was not well-worded, but the mockery of
                   it is completely inaccurate.  -tom
                           \_ Gore's lying. He BS'ed and someone called him.
                              You are just apologizing for Gore cause he's
                              a socialist just like you are and you are
                              afraid that conservatives will let the people
                              continue to think for themselves and that the
                              people will figure out that you are wrong.
                              Half of them already have.
                        \_ Welcome to American politics.  All public figures
                           screw up.  The better lines get remembered.  Tough
                           shit.  And I saw the clip where he said this and
                           he made it clear the internet as a concept was his
                           idea.  "I saw all these different research and
                           educational and other big computer places that
                           couldn't talk to each other so I...".  Something
                           along those lines.  The real thing is out there if
                           you care to find it.  In context.
           \_ motd formatting !god was here
              \_ all hail
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19673 Activity:high 60%like:19693
11/9    http://cnn.com: bush +437, Gore +1391.  Gore - Bush = Gore + 954.  9:02am.
        38 of 62 counted.  Mostly smaller and a few mid sized ones left.
        \_ [typo corrected, sorry]
        \_ When they say +XXX, does it mean that they miscounted by -XXX
           during the first count?  I find that rather troubling.
           \_ I find your jumping to conclusions troubling.  No, +XXX simply
              means XXX is added to current tally.
                \_ Seems to me your answer is just a restatement of what
                   I just said.  Also, you seem very sensitive.
2000/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19648 Activity:high 50%like:19646
11/5    VOTE GUSH d00d5!!!
        \_ kick both candidates in the nuts!  kick third party candidates in
        the nuts!

        http://www.kgoam810.com/\goout.asp?u=http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=73474&PT=programsummaries
        \_ I'm not surprised.  That's bush for ya.
           \_ Uhm, ok.  Larry Flynt, man best known for porn and being a Gore
              supporter makes unsubstantiated claims and provides no evidence.
              Where's the Bush connection?  And uhm, even if "Mister" Flynt's
              story was true... uh... so what?  Abortion is legal.

                       \_ abortions would not be necesary if all guys
                          were kicked in the nuts really hard.
                          \_ How true.  Perhaps a federally funded program
                             supported by a KickNuts Tax of 3.5% off everyone's
                             income?  A worthy cause and it'll shrink the
                             Federal Government.
              All I see is a rich porn pusher trying to ruin the
              life of some poor woman to use her as a political pawn.  If I
              was her and some prick some Flynt was investigating my life, I'd
              be upset too.  Is this a character issue thing?  I'd think the
              left would want to avoid character issues like the plague in
              this year's elections....
              \_ It is to display the hypocrisy in Bush's claims of integrity.
                 Not like the right destroyed Monica Lewinsky's name too.
                 This is fair game.
                 \_ Lewinsky was sucking cock in the whitehouse.  In the Oval
                    Office for Christ's sake.  Do not compare some innocent
                    private citizen getting sucked into Flynt's bullshit with
                    Monica's stained dress.  And if you check, you'll find it
                    was Hillary & crew destroying ML, not the right trying to
                    ruin what little reputation and shreds of credibility she
                    had.  Flynt is the last man on the planet to be pointing
                    out character flaws in others.  Sources are important.
                    I'd believe my magic 8-ball before I believed Flynt's
                    completely undocumented lies.  This isn't the first time
                    Larry has pointed a finger and never presented a single
                    speck of evidence.
        \_ you hozer. At least TRY to do the obvious simplification:
           http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=73474&PT=programsummaries
        \_ double-hozer. This does NOT make bush a hippocrit. Bush specifically
           said he was only against late-term and "partial-birth" abortion.
           This was just a "regular" one.
           oops. Although apparently, it was illegal at the time.
                \_ Although "everyone was doing it" at the time.  Sort of like
                   how it's been ok to lie to a grand jury under oath for the
                   last 8 years so long as you're lying about something you
                   feel isn't important....
2000/11/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19646 Activity:high 50%like:19648
11/5    VOTE GUSH d00d5!!!

        http://www.kgoam810.com/\goout.asp?u=http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=73474&PT=programsummaries
        \_ I'm not surprised.  That's bush for ya.
           \_ Uhm, ok.  Larry Flynt, man best known for porn and being a Gore
              supporter makes unsubstantiated claims and provides no evidence.
              Where's the Bush connection?  And uhm, even if "Mister" Flynt's
              story was true... uh... so what?  Abortion is legal.

              All I see is a rich porn pusher trying to ruin the
              life of some poor woman to use her as a political pawn.  If I
              was her and some prick some Flynt was investigating my life, I'd
              be upset too.  Is this a character issue thing?  I'd think the
              left would want to avoid character issues like the plague in
              this year's elections....
              \_ It is to display the hypocrisy in Bush's claims of integrity.
                 Not like the right destroyed Monica Lewinsky's name too.
                 This is fair game.
                 \_ Lewinsky was sucking cock in the whitehouse.  In the Oval
                    Office for Christ's sake.  Do not compare some innocent
                    private citizen getting sucked into Flynt's bullshit with
                    Monica's stained dress.  And if you check, you'll find it
                    was Hillary & crew destroying ML, not the right trying to
                    ruin what little reputation and shreds of credibility she
                    had.  Flynt is the last man on the planet to be pointing
                    out character flaws in others.  Sources are important.
                    I'd believe my magic 8-ball before I believed Flynt's
                    completely undocumented lies.  This isn't the first time
                    Larry has pointed a finger and never presented a single
                    speck of evidence.
                    \_ Lewinsky was kicking nuts in the white house.
        \_ you hozer. At least TRY to do the obvious simplification:
           http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=73474&PT=programsummaries
           \_ what was the last "wild unsubstantiated rumor" the flynt
              pushed?  last time i checked, he usually had lots of
              evidence to back himself up
              \_ He kicked someone in the nuts
        \_ double-hozer. This does NOT make bush a hippocrit. Bush specifically
           said he was only against late-term and "partial-birth" abortion.
           \_ there is no such thing as a "partial birth abortion"
              go do some research.
              \_ go to the reference desk at the library an kick the librarian
                 in the nuts.
           This was just a "regular" one.
           oops. Although apparently, it was illegal at the time.
                \_ Although "everyone was doing it" at the time.  Sort of like
                   how it's been ok to lie to a grand jury under oath for the
                   last 8 years so long as you're lying about something you
                   feel isn't important....
                   \_ everyone is kicking people in the nuts.
2000/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19595 Activity:very high
10/29   http://www.speakout.com/VoteMatch
        Has anyone tried this and got the correct match?
        \_ you are Unclear on the Concept.
           The URL points out what is the correct match for you.
           The question is, were you smart enough to figure out who
        \_ granted Bush is a glorified Quayle, but you dont want a tax cut?
        \_ granted Bush is a glorified Quayle... This aside, dont you want
           a tax cut?
           Maybe you should give voluntary donations to the federal govt.
           best fits you before taking the questionaire.
           \_ Based on the tone of the question, the poster
              was rudely surprised, which begs the questions,
              Original Poster, who was your closest match?
        \_ yes.  democrats are the closest to my viewpoints, then nader, then
           the liberal republicans...and pat buchanan last.
           \_ Basically it told you that you are RED COMMIE PIG SCUM.
        \_ it got me right.  -lila
        \_ moi aussi, I'm a populist leaning conservative, my matches were:
           Cheney, Buchanan, Keyes, Philips, Bush, McCain, with Nader (last).
           Its pretty accurate conisdering I'm a former member of the
           "Buchanan Brigades" who voted for Pat in every primary
           until he left the Republican party.
        \_ Bradley, Gore, Browne, Lieberman, Nader, Cheney, Buchanan,
           McCain, Bush (fairly accurate) --dim
        \_ granted, yes, Bush is a glorified Quayle...
           \_ WRONG! Quayle is not that dumb, but Bush is arguably smarter.
              Bush graduated from Yale and recieved a MBA from Harvard. He
              had a better overall academic record than Gore, who recieved
              at least one D (and many C's) in undergrad work at Harvard and
              failed to complete any of his post graduate work.
                "Gore arrived at Harvard with an impressive 1355 SAT score, 6
                 25 verbal and 730 math, compared with Bush's 1206 total
           \_ Hey!  I hope Bush wins so I can claim that I have a higher SAT
              score than the president of the United States of America:
                "Gore arrived at Harvard with an impressive 1355 SAT score,
                 625 verbal and 730 math, compared with Bush's 1206 total
                 from 566 verbal and 640 math."
              \_ You got into Cal with lower than 1355?!? DAMN. They will
                 let anyone in these days. - alum with 1400 SATs
                        \_ SAT's are meaningless - flunked out with 1490 SAT

                           (780 Math/710 Verbal - yet flunked both English 1A
                            & Math 1A twice, though that was mostly due to
                            lack of interest)
                           \_ WOW! I'm impressed. I've never met anyone
                              flunked out of Math 1A and English 1A. Chem 3B,
                              Chem 162 (Ochem), Physics 112, etc yes, but
                              Math 1A and English 1A, is unbelieveable. Its
                              like 10th grade stuff.
                                \_ Depends on who you had for math.  English
                                   depends on your instructor and if you have
                                   previous writing experience and kiss ass
                                   enough.
                                   \_ I took 2 ud english classes and they
                                      were cake. I didn't even have to go
                                      to class ever. I figured 1A was much
                                      easier, I never took it though, I AP'ed
                                      out. Same with Math 1A,1B.
                                      out English, Math and Chem.
                                        \_ If you did that in my English 1a,
                                           you'd get a big fat F.  She actually
                                           took attendance and lowered your
                                           grade by a full letter for each
                                           unexcused day after the second
                                           on who you take it from.  I'm sure
                                           I can find you a math 1A prof that'd
                                           be more than happy to flunk you.
                                           Prof Woo comes to mind....  There
                                           are others.
                                              \_ Attendence? WTH, its college.
                                                 Anyway I stand corrected.
                                           \_ Please provide name.  Gracias.
                                      \_ the english 1A/1B classes are like
                                         engineering labs, not lectures.
                                         each class is <20 students and there
                                         are weekly writing assignments and
                                         in-class writing oexercises, so
                                         attendance is important.
                                         \_ I only took ud english classes,
                                            I stand corrected about the
                                            ld english classes.
           \_ This seems like a fair matter of fact page on the candidate's
              academic records:
                http://www.geocities.com/gore_in_context/harvard.html
              \_ Wow. If I took those courses I would sue for slander to
                 keep my transcript from going public. I can't believe
                 that BORE thinks that he's bad ass hard-core academic
                 stud, when all he took were frigging arts/humanities
                 course. Any moron can get decent grades in humanities
                 classes, esp. at a private school where the *customer
                 is always right*.
                 At least Bush as the humility to admit that he's not
                 the brightest on the block.
                 Anyway The last pres. (and perhaps only one in the 20th
                 century) who could pass something like the average Cal
                 ciriculum (50 series, 7 series, 61 series, ud techs)
                        \_ Not including any spelling classes obviously.
                           \_ Yeah, I can't spell. so what?
                 was Carter. He was arguably one of the *worst*
                 presidents. Contrast that to Truman (never went to
                 college), Reagan (Eureka College) or Lincoln (home
                 schooled).
                 Success in the Presidency is more than simply academic
                 prowess.
                 \_ Being POTUS has to do with leadership, not academia.  I
                    don't want BH for President but I'm sure he got better
                    grades than either of the current major candidates.
                    \_ BH?
                        \_ Hello?  Brian Harvey?  Is BH dead or something?
                           \_ Whose Brian Harvey?
           However, dont you want a tax cut?
           You dont want experiments with school vouchers, or a
           portion of your SS tax to give you a higher rate of return?
           Maybe you should voluntarily donate money to the
           federal government.
           \_ Huh?  Is that sarcasm?  -confused
              \_ Huh? What? Get a clue.
                        \_ Gosh, I guess I should've picked it up from the tone
                           in your voice or something.  I see Cal is still
                           desperately in need of personal interviews prior to
                           accepting new students to weed out the pricks like
                           you.
        \_ Buchanan, Cheney, Keys, Hagelin (wtf)... Lieb and Gore Last
2000/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Recreation/Music] UID:19543 Activity:nil
10/20   "{Gore|Bush|Troll} is the Salieri of American politics. He wants so
        desperately to be a genius. He has mastered the techniques. He
        knows everything. And yet the spark of genius is not in him. And
        there in the Oval Office sits the Mozart from Arkansas, the
        natural, the casually smutty debaucher of interns who is also
        the political genius of our time."
        \_ and you are the Salieri of the motd
           \_ hi mozart
        \_ This analogy is totally wrong. In Amadeus, Salieri is the
        Venetian court composer, not Mozart. It would follow, therefore
        that Clinton is Salieri, and that Gore is Mozart. The point is
        that whoever is Amadeus wouldn't be elected since he would not
        be understood in his time. -williamc
        \_ I am Yahoo Serious portraying Mozart, you are all Paully Shore.-blojo
2000/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health/Men, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19538 Activity:nil
10/20   Screw Gore and Bush and especially Pat. Vote Quimby
        http://www.quimby2000.com
        \_ I'm voting Vader: <DEAD>www.vaderfor2000.org<DEAD>
        \_ Well, look at how cool you are you hedonistic pinkhaired
           shitkitten. God forbid should you have an original thought lest
           in a somewhat related fit of your disrobed, impotent wisdom
           you take to trollying in public your hamster-shaming gonads
           with your ridiculeworthy genetalia as your mindless little
           heart bleeds amidst my laughter to the current of your own
           excretions... smeltsucking infantfelcher. - (fucker)
           \_ Welcome back. We've missed you.
2000/10/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19534 Activity:nil
10/20  "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
        George W. Bush, http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp
2000/10/4 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19411 Activity:nil
10/04   Anybody else think that height is an issue in presidential elections?
        The last president < 6 feet tall was jimmy carter, and we how the
        circumstances surrounding his election.  Gore is like 6' 1" and Bush
        is just under 6 feet right?
        \_ It's not absolute height, its relative height.
           The taller presidential candidate always wins.
           Unless he can somehow avoid ever standing next to his
           competition for the whole election run. Not.
2000/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19404 Activity:very high
10/03   Bush: "I don't care what the vice-president says, he doesn't
        believe in testing our kids" and hold schools accountable.
        <DEAD>www.algore.com/agenda/bluebook/p3.html<DEAD>
        "...we need to test our students"
        \_ Gore - lies about Grandma taking up-the-ass for $120 bucks while
           his dog takes the same up-the-ass for $20 .. turns out his example
           is made up. also, Gore special interest ends only after he gets
           his money from the monks.
           \_ All this is largely irrelavent. All politicans exagerate to
              some extent. What Bush-lick needs to focus on is not these kinds
              of mistakes, but rather the effect of BOREs misguided policies
              on ordinary americans.
        \_ There is only one issue that _clearly_ distinguishes these bozos:
           abortion.  Everything else is muddled.
           \_ Government Regulation. if Bore GR++, if Bush-lick GR--.
              Taxation               if Bore TAXES++, if Bush-lick TAXES--.
           \_ Not quite right.  Gore has a little more clue on the
              debt.  Gore is anti-tart reform, Bush is pro tart reform.
              \_ Bore doesn't have a clue about the debt.
        \_ Look, they are the same guy in different suits (though not even
           that last night at the debate). The only good reason to vote for
           Gore over Bush is because there are a few people in the his party
           who actually do give a shit. Anyway, everyone in the Bay Area
           should vote for Nader since Gore is going to win here by a large
           margin.
              \_ The valley's prosperity is due to the economic policies of
                 great men like Ronald Reagan. Bill C was smart enough to
                 keeps his hands of the economy, Bore isn't that smart and
                 will screw it up.
                 \_ The Great Ronald Reagan almost screwed our country
                    permanently with his insane budget deficits. Clinton
                    put us back on an even course. Tax-and-spend liberals
                    in his party notwithstanding, Gore is far more likely to
                    persue fiscal responsibility.
                       \_ You are completely ignorant. Read the Wall Street
                          Journal some time. The budget deficit that he grew
                          was wartime spending. America has always run budget
                          deficits during wartime. Since we won the cold war
                          (which was possible only because of the zero-sum
                          option of RWR) we can start reducing the deficit
                          just like it was after all wars. BORE won't help
                          with this, he would just like to spend all the
                          money on more government programs.
                          If any of you think that the COLD WAR wasn't a real
                          war, you should try talking to members of the
                          armed forces who served during that time. It was a
                          real war and RWR fought it like a real war and he won.
                          By winning he secured our freedom for generations to
                          come. So it cost some $s. Better to sacrifice a few $s
                          for long term freedom and prosperity.
                          \_ You have obviously been reading the WSJ editorial
                             pages and confusing their fantasy version of the
                             world with reality. The Reagan budget deficits
                             were mostly caused by foolish headed tax breaks for
                             the rich justified as "trickle down economics."
                             And I *did* serve in the armed forces during the
                             cold war, did you?. It is not the same thing
                             as being shot at.
                          \_ yeah, kick  some central american butt!
                             \_ It was russian COMMIE butt that we kicked.
                                Soviet Communism has been consigned to the
                                ash-heap of history, just as RWR predicted.
                                \_ Soviet is gonna fall one way or another.
                                   If you think RWR toppled it, you really
                                   have no clue about why communism or command
                    \_ Regardless of Reagan's "almost" screwing our country
                       and Clinton's cigar wizardry, Greenspan is far more
                       accountable for preventing *possible* recessions
                       and that still says nothing about Gore, his retarded
                       tax policy, his taste for opportunistic lying
                       (campeign funding), and a propensity for
                       irresponsibility and unaccountability. But I'm sure
                       you're right about his likelihood to "pursue"
                       fiscal responsibility better than Bush... after all
                       the pursuit of responsibility
                                   economies fails.
                    \_ Reagan "almost" screwed our country; Clinton "almost"
                       screwed Lewinsky, Lincoln Bedroom, Arlington,
                       Missile Guidance... whatever.
                       Get it straight brainiac.
                       Greenspan put us back on course.
                       And that has NOTHING to do with Gore... who indeed
                       is more likely to pursue any responsibility than Bush
                       who has had more practice being it than pursuing it.
                       Oh, forget I said that... go back to your fantasyland
                       You'd vote democrat regardless of who's running,
                       probably because your parents did you pathetic
                       reasons that companies like Cisco and Sun are able to
                       little snailsniffing automaton for whom thinking-for-
                       onself is a terrifying enemy.  - (fucker)
                       \_ GreenSpan was appointed by Reagan and has shown
                          himself to be a supply-sider.
                 \_ Our prosperity is in spite of the economic and moral
                    policies of mediocre presidents like Ronald Reagan. The
                    Federal Reserve and regulations in banking and stock
                    markets, established long before rr, helped fuel and
                    better sustain recent stock market manias. And the more
                    tangible prosperity is due to the great minds & ideas
                    coming out of universities like UC Berkeley and Stanford
                    and companies like HP, Cisco, Sun and products like
                    Netscape Navigator, Solaris and Yahoo. Not due as much
                    to those punks in washington (dc).
                    \_ RWR's visonary insights into economics, including
                       his choice of Alan G. as FED Chariman, are the sole
                       \_ "sole reason"? You LOSE right here
                       reason that companies like Cisco and Sun are able to
                       prosper. The reduction in Coroprate Taxes and Corporate
                       Regulations that RWR made allowed people to do business
                       more efficiently leading to unprecidented growth and
                          \_ I paid BC + AB salary in taxes this year. I
                       prosperity for all americans including morons like you
                       who would otherwise be panhanlding on the streets of
                       Berzerkely.
                       RWR believed and implemented SSLF principles. His
                       leadership has restored America's Greatness.
                       \_ In that case, why is Greenspan advocating the
                          use of the budget surplus to reduce the national
                          debt instead of cutting taxes?
                          \_ I believe that some of the deficit ought to
                             be repaid, but that is not what Bore will do
                             with the "surplus". He will expand government.
                                \_ Err ... debt and deficit are two very
                                   very different things, even though one
                                   leads to the other.
                       \_ The regulations I refer to were implemented in
                          FDR's time. Plus, I am 95% sure I earn more than
                          you and believe me Reagan did not do that for me,
                          you  rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth fascist hypocrite.
                          America never needed it's Greatness restored
                          because it never lost it. Republicans are all
                          for affirmative action for the rich, like S&L
                          bailouts and pandering to the religious freaks.
                          \_ I paid BC + AB salaries in taxes this year. I
                             will pay more next year. If it was not for
                             RWR, I would never have had the opportunity
                             to earn as much as I do. His vision was an
                             america where everyone could be rich, rather
                             \_ This is fucking hilarious.
                             than an america where no one can ever be rich
                             (socialist democrat ideal).
                             \_ Wow, a republican who is proud of taxes
                                enough to use them to try to justify his point
                       \_ No, it was the other way around: products by
                          Cisco Sun etc. helped improve corporate efficiencies
                          and reduce costs which led to higher profits and
                          greater ambitions (both in small/large and old/new
                          companies which in turn contributed to stock market
                          gains. Not just "lower taxes" which is all that
                          republicans can ever say.
                          \_ The economic environment created by RWR is what
                             what allowed companies like Cisco and Sun to
                             form and succeed Without his leadership in the
                             early 1980s (for those of you not old enough to
                             remember, 1979-1980 were years in which this
                             country experienced the greatest economic down-
                             turn since 1929) these companies and scores of
                             of others could never have been created. Supply
                             Side and Laisse-Faire works, RWR proved it;
                             we are enjoying the fruits of his labor.
                             \_ Wow, i guess RWR created the Internet then.
                             \_ Since 1992, CSCO has gone up like 80000%
                             \_ It's not often that us engineers are given
                                our dues for making America great!  So,
                                please don't take away our credit, asshole!
                                If you want to hero worship RWR, go learn
                                from Monica, ok?

           \_ it's really pretty ridiculous to make this assertion.  Well,
              it's not ridiculous when you have no real knowledge of the
              candidates' positions.  But if you did, you'd know that they
              differ on most issues.  -tom
2000/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19401 Activity:moderate
10/03   So who won the first presidential debate?
        Bush            -1 - No balls
        Gore            -1 - No policies
                             \_ and bush has these?
                                \_ Yes, but don't think for yourself, now.
        yermom          0
        !psb            1
        tjb             0
        linus           2
        the girl with the big titties in the audience  8
        \_ I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky
2000/10/1-2 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19385 Activity:high 62%like:19383
10/01   What is with snotty politically ignorant trolls on motd?
        \_ Conservatives are not the ones censoring topics on the
           motd. Its the liberal luzer though police. At least
           conservatives let people who disagree with them speak
           freely, unlike liberal COMMIE SCUM!
                \_ Whatever: McCarthy Party Lamb. Shout your
                   repressive conservative politics all you want, your
                   crusty old-fashioned reps. are getting left in the
                   political dust. I ain't deleting anything, better
                   to let you show off your ignorance to the world.
                   \_ It's you liberals ruining them oral and economoic
                      fabric of society.
                   \_ It's you liberals ruining the oral and economoic
                      fabric of society. -ranga
                      \_ If you want to sound half intelligent (or more
                         intelligent that George Bush) then you might
                         want to refrain from using random permutations
                         of the words damn, liberal, luzer, commie, and
                         scum as they show absolutely no intellectual
                         thought. Rather than shooting off the hips why
                         don't you pick a particular topic and discuss it
                         in full detail (why you agree/disagree, what
                         evidence you have to support it, what arguments
                         you have to counter the other side, etc...).
                         That would surely sound far more intelligent than
                         saying things like "you're stupid", "you're a
                         damn commmie liberal", painting the motd with
                         "LINUX, RIDE BIKE", etc... Being a democrat
                         doesn't make you dumb. Not following your
                         arguments with any form of rational thought is.
2000/9/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19166 Activity:very high
9/4     Got to lick BUSH and DICK in 2000
        \_ Oh now I get it.
2000/7/26 [Health/Men, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:18769 Activity:nil
7/25    I recently just finished up a string of relations with white guys.
        I'm an Asian female looking for financial stability and family
        values.  Should I stick with middle class hillbillies, or should
        I go for insecure rice boys with small penis?  Or maybe I should
        go for girls?
        \_ insecure rice boys with small penis.
        \_ Is 6" regular or small?
           \_ Spicy crispy.
2000/7/18-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:18712 Activity:moderate
7/18    http://www.autowraps.com
        \_ man rice
        \_ They don't have anymore accounts. Sounds like they'll go
           belly up RSN.
        \_ I have a Lincoln Navigator. Am I still eligible?
2000/6/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:18406 Activity:kinda low
6/4     It is already 6/4 and since this is called the MOTD where D=="DAY"
        The latest NFL football news is that:
        "Cowboys show interest in Cunningham"
        "Green Bay to release tight end Chmura"
        "49ers deal for Rice should be done Monday"
        \_ Uh... so what?
2000/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:17769 Activity:high
3/15    What this the meaning of "biff" (as in a program's name) ?
        \_ />00/> \/\/|-|47"5 7|-|15 /<-R4/> P%0G%4|\/| U 54Y?!?!
        4 |\|0 %3450|\| 1 G07 A \/\/00/>%0\/\/ 7|-|3 5123  0F
        3\/3%357!!!@@!$%#@@7P<
                \_ and why is biff sometimes related to this unreadable
                        junk?
                        \_ 0bveuslee UR n0t 318 enuf 2 reede b1ff skr1pt!11
        \ eYe cunt r34d ths sh1t.
          \_ "Dood what's this k-rad program you say?!?!
             "For no reason I got a Woodrow the size of Everest!!!"
        \_ man 1 biff: it tells you when you have new mail.
           \_ I know what biff does. I was wondering what the word "biff"
              means.
              \_ Read the man page I pointed you at. "The biff command
                 appeared in 4.0BSD. It was name after the dog of Heidi
                 Stettner. He died in August 1993, at 15."
                 \_ That's sad if true.
                    \_ I believe it is. The foldoc entry is relevent and seems
                       to confirm it. Say, I wonder if anyone on soda was
                       there when they were developing BSD? Could be we have
                       someone who knew Biff.
              \_ http://www.instantweb.com/~foldoc/contents.html
                 See "biff", "b1ff".
        \_ http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/biff.html
           http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/B1FF.html
1998/11/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:15032 Activity:very high
11/25   http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm for the most recent info on
        why Clinton should be impeached and shot.
        \_ yeah whatever. i think you should be impeached and shot.
           \_ What do you mean "yeah, whatever"?  If the current
           administration has jeopardized the national security of this
           country, then it should be removed.
           \_ politicians selling out the country's interets  because some
              big contributor asked them to?  Wow, now there's news.  What
              political utopia have you been living in?
                \_jeopardized national security!??? Youre stupid.
           \_ getting a blowjob is close to national security breach?
              \_ I hear the Iraq situation is cumming to a head...
                 \_ but Im sure we'll "pull out" before anything irreversible
                    happens
        \_ What an amazing, realiable source of information.
1998/11/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:14873 Activity:nil
11/1    Microsoft fears the penguin.  http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/halloween.html
        \_ "watch out for the penguins"
1998/9/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:14643 Activity:nil
9/20    fucking coward.

  Judge Starr, Members of Congress, people of America, I
  banged her. I banged her like a cheap gong. Which is not
  news, folks, because if you think Monica Lewinsky was
  the only skin flute player in my orchestra, you haven't
  been paying attention.

  The only babes in D.C. I haven't tried to do are the
  First Lady, Reno, Albright, and Shalala, mostly because
  they're a little older than I like and they have legs
  that former Houston Oiler Earl Campbell would envy.
  Which isn't to say I don't appreciate Hillary, I do. If
  not for the ice-water coursing through her veins, I'd be
  pumping gas into farm equipment in Hope, Arkansas, and
  she'd be married to the President.

  So, let me set the record straight. I dodged the draft,
  hid FBI files, smoked dope, flipped Whitewater property,
  set up a new Korean wing in the White House, fired the
  travel staff, paid hush money to Hubbell, sold the
  Lincoln bedroom like an upscale Motel 6, and grabbed
  every ass that entered the Oval Office. Got it? Good.

  Six years ago, there's not a man, woman, or child who
  didn't know I was as horny as Woody Allen. But, you
  elected me anyway, which turned out to be a good move on
  your part. Your other choice was Bush, an aging baseball
  player and part-time resident of some place called
  "Kennebunkport" who thought he could bomb his way into
  the White House.

  Before him, it was Reagan, who left the office with the
  same Alzheimer's he came in with. There was Carter
  before him who brought you a 17% prime interest rate,
  smiling the whole time like his lithium drip had just
  kicked in. Nixon before that coined, but never really
  understood, the concept of 'plausible deniability,' and
  almost got a one-way ticket to San Clemente for his
  crackerjack style of governing. Johnson was an inbred,
  power-mad war criminal whose major contribution to
  American society was Agent Orange.

  And John Kennedy, who was a little naughty himself,
  didn't hang around long enough for America to spot that
  curious atavistic tic for "beaver-wrestling" shared by
  at least a dozen former residents of the White House.
  Which brings me back to my point.

  Since I have been strumming the banjo here at the White
  House, government is doing more for less. The budget is
  balanced for the first time since JFK did a one gun
  salute to Marilyn, a fact the press didn't seem to care
  about, evidently. Unemployment is so low today a blind
  felon can get a job as a night-watchman. And the stock
  market is higher than a D-student on a full gram of
  dumb-dust, and anyone with a degree from a junior
  college who can spell 'internet' has enough money to
  ponder the annual maintenance cost of his boat, instead
  of where his or her next meal is coming from.

  Bottom line: I'm running a country here and I'm doing it
  with my pecker showing. What I'm asking for is your
  support, not a date with your daughter, unless, of
  course, she's a hotty with thin ankles, and then I'd
  like to discuss it.

  In the meantime, think about where you are today and
  what kind of life you're living before you get too
  interested in where I'm parking the Presidential
  limousine.

  Thank you, good night and God bless America.
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