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2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    

2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
        \_ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098423/J-Edgar-Hoover-New-book-exposes-secret-world-FBI-Director.html
           \_ Was he related to Herbert Hoover?
        \_ History or the History Channel?
           \_ It is the same now. History Channel renamed itself to History
              last year.
        \_ What kind of dirt does it have on GWB?
           \_ Dubya is the first President since Ike to not have a major
              ethical scandal during his term. I am not a fan of his, but
              you have to respect his moral character.
              \_ That is amazing.
              \_ ...um, more to the point, he was the only one who
                 didn't have an ethical scandal aired. WMD in Iraq,
                 anyone?
                 \_ That scandal is on Powell.  It's all Powell's fault!
                    Year, really.
                    5/10 UPDATE: "Colin Powell: U.S. was set for war with Iraq
                    before his U.N. speech"
                    http://www.csua.org/u/wdm (Note the last three chars in
                    the shortcut URL.)
                 \_ Not sure that really qualifies. It is not like a bribery
                    case or something influence peddling or anything like
                    that. No one broke the law.
                    \_ Untrue. Nobody got charged with anything != no one
                       broke the law.
2011/12/19-2012/2/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54266 Activity:nil
12/19   Kim Jong Il died.
        \_ And Vaclav Havel
           \_ The great ones always die in threes..
              \_ Warren Hellman?
              \_ Hitch. At one point, he was a visiting prof at the Journalism school.
              \_ Hitch. At one point, he was a visiting prof at the
                 Journalism school.
              \_ "10 years ago we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash -
                 Now we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash!"  (Some joke from
                 the web.)
        \_ As anti-American as he is ......
           "Korean Dictator's Final Ride Was In a Vintage Lincoln Continental"
           http://www.csua.org/u/v3y (news.yahoo.com)
2011/11/16-12/6 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54232 Activity:nil
11/16   Communism now more popular than Congress:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/79v9wx8
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    

2011/11/10-30 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54221 Activity:nil
11/10   Nixon's grand jury testimony was released today:
        http://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2012/nr12-24.html
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/7p3fnbc [gpo.gov]
        \_ '"Perle Mesta wasn't sent to Luxembourg because she had big bosoms.
           Perle Mesta went to Luxembourg because she made a good
           contribution."'
           http://www.csua.org/u/upr (news.yahoo.com)
2011/10/31-11/30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54207 Activity:nil
10/31   "FACT CHECK: GOP lawmakers spin funding tall tales"
        http://yhoo.it/s6KzKP
        Amazing.
        \_ You are surprised that politicians lie?
           \_ No, but I was just amazed that so many lies are packed together.
2011/8/14-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54163 Activity:nil
8/11    What happened to the anti-government dude?
        "A recent report from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
         showed that nearly all states will spend less on vital services in
         2012 than they did in 2008, after inflation, even though there
         are more children in public schools and more poor people on the
         Medicaid rolls."
        http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3550
        You must be overjoyed with how the economy is going right now.
        \_ Starve the beast.
2010/11/10-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53996 Activity:nil
11/10   "It's Official: The Stimulus Isn't a Waste of Money"
        http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2022781,00.html
2010/3/29-4/14 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53763 Activity:nil
3/29    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100329/us_time/08599197588300
        "Arabs, who would seem to have an even stronger race claim than
        Hispanics do, are trumpeting their own write-in campaign because the
        Census by default counts them as white ... Ironically, part of the
        problem is that Arab immigrants a century ago petitioned the Federal
        Government to be categorized as white to avoid discrimination."
        Which way do they want?
        \_ Shockingly, not all Arabs want the same thing.
2009/10/7-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53432 Activity:low
10/7    'Whatever' so totally tops most annoying word poll - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/p80
        \_ Whatever
           \_ You are obviously not hanging with the cool kids.  It's
              "whatevs"
              \_ Don't forget to throw up both thumbs and index fingers
                 together to make a "W".
2009/9/10-21 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:53356 Activity:nil
9/10    "4 Conundrums That Impede Healthcare Reform"
        http://www.csua.org/u/p11 (news.yahoo.com)
2009/8/26-9/9 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53301 Activity:nil
8/26    RIP Ted Kennedy
        \_ Now The plot of "The man who saw Tomorrow" will never work!
2009/2/19-25 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:52605 Activity:nil
2/19    GOP congressmen who voted against stimulus now bragging to their
        districts about getting the money
        http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/02/behold_the_hypocrimap.php
        \_ They're asking for people to report examples.  I don't see any so
           far.
2008/12/8-12 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:52203 Activity:nil
12/8    "Military jet crashes in San Diego neighborhood"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_re_us/military_jet_crash
        Gee.  Reminds me of the movie "Blast from the Past".
        \_ Turns out it's in University City, just off the 805. Lots of
           nice houses around there.
        \_ great, this didn't help the housing price any, isn't it?
2008/12/8-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:52199 Activity:high
12/8    Partha, I'd be interested to know how you do on this:
        http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx
        I bet you're in the 90% or above...
        \_ That's not a very hard quiz. I'm not particularly big on politics
           or econ, and I managed 30/33.
        \- i got 30/33 too. #33 is not a good question.
           the puritan question is also kind of iffy [the were
           looking for increased freedom to practice, complete
           freedom, i suppose not. but just to label a pretty disparate
           group with the "teh believed in sinfulness and not dancing
           isnt a good answer, especially in the american civics
           context, where the focus should be on free exercise].
           i legitmately got the lincoln-douglas one wrong.
           i knew there was an active debate on the compromises
           about adding new states but i thought the debate between
           then was more philosophical. why didnt you just wall this
           if directed at me.
        \- i got 30/33 too. i misreaad 33 reading deficit for debt.
           the actual answer is not very good. the puritan question
           is also kind of iffy [they were looking for increased
           freedom to practice, complete freedom, i suppose not. but
           just to label a pretty disparate group with the "they
           believed in sinfulness and not dancing" isnt a good answer,
           especially in the american civics context, where the focus
           should be on free exercise].  i legitmately got the
           lincoln-douglas one wrong.  i knew there was an active
           debate on the compromises about adding new states but i
           thought the debate between then was more philosophical. why
           didnt you just wall this if directed at me.
           thought the debate between L&D was more philosophical.
           why didnt you just wall this if directed at me. --psb
           \_ And yet, you're not a citizen, right?  Good job, psb,
              though truthfully I expected you to do well.  You
              didn't seem to be on wall at the time.
              \_ Yet, not a citizen? I thought that tends to work in his favor.
                 \- it's not a matter of citizenship, it's i havent taken
                    a us history class in 20yrs and am not interested in
                    us history [i am interested in 20cent history and
                    con law]. like i dont remember exactly who the
                    the con law]. like i dont remember exactly who the
                    anti-federalists were, although that was a guessable
                    question.
        \_ I got 100% right. -ausman
        \_ I got only got #8 wrong.  I would have gotten that if I'd
           thought about it longer. (Roosevelt/SCOTUS threaten q.)
           The Puritan question seemed poorly written and #33 is a silly
           trick question.  (I still got those right though.)
           \_ How is 33 a trick question.  A lot of people don't understand
              the difference between debt and deficit spending.
              \- because tax per person is not really meaningful concept.
                 secondly, it assumes there is history ... i.e. there
                 could be debt from past years but doesnt include say
                 non-tax sources of govt income, govt expenses on
                 non-citizens ... saying $3bh of aid to israel is
                 non-citizens ... saying $3bn of aid to israel is
                 $10 of spending on each person (in america) is kind
                 of silly. whereas one of the core national income accounting
                 identity does start with aggregate govt revenue and
                 agg govt spending.
                 what would you pay to see sarah palin take this quiz
                 in front of you? i might pay $100.
                 \_ I would pay $100 if she had to take it 'cold' with
                    no fore-warning and had never taken it before....
        \_ I also got 30/33, but I did have to make some educated guesses.
           For example, I could not have answered the Lincoln/Doglus one
           without the multiple-choice format.
           \_ That's all fine and well, but I think the funny/sad part here is
              they claim that "college educators" only score 55% on average.
              \_ It is sad that they make that claim, it kind of destroys
                 their credibility.
                 \_ Does it? I'm not so sure. I find it plausible, depending
                    on how they define "college educators" (what colleges,
                    what subjects, etc.).
                    \_ I personally know four "college educators" and I can
                       ask them all to take this test and tell you how they
                       did, if you like. Of course, all but one is a Cal Grad
                       (and the one that is not is a UCLA grad) so perhaps this
                       is too much of a self-selected sample. I would be
                       astonished if any of them got under 90%.
        \_ I think whether you take the quiz fast or slow (untimed) may make
           a couple of point difference.
        \_ 28/33 -- I would have gotten 33 but I read it too fast
2008/12/1-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:52134 Activity:nil
12/1    US economy in recession since Dec 2007, says NBER:
        http://tinyurl.com/5vukuj
        \_ But our PRESIDENT said we're simply in a tough spot and that
           we'll back to our feet!
2008/11/10-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:51904 Activity:nil
11/10   Why $700B in bailout money?  Here is one chart:
        http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h253/etzelo/control1.jpg
        \_ http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/30
           Can't cut GS bonus money this year, can we?
2008/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:51494 Activity:nil 63%like:51495
10/13   I just want to crow for a moment:
        http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2008
        *Boredcast Message from 'psb': Tue Oct  7 13:13:54 2008
        || i wonder if the nobel people will give PKRUGMAN the econ prize
        || as a way of sticking it to BUSHCO
        || well the econ nobel people
        ||
        Given all the yammering from Ben Stein lately, it is time to
        recycle this:
        http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/a_missing_piece.html
2008/9/16-19 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:51191 Activity:nil
9/16    Remember when Pelosi said this would be the most ethical congress in
        history?  Oh well.
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122158705277343865.html
        \_ When is Stevens going to step down?
           \_ Apples/Oranges.  I'd love Stevens to leave, but Pelosi could
              strip Rangel's chairmanship in a heartbeat.  You'd think the head
              of the Ways and Means committee should, I don't know, *not* be
              committing tax fraud?
2008/9/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:51129 Activity:nil
9/10    http://tinyurl.com/5eqg2v
        Did Obama plagiarize from this cartoon?
2008/7/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50702 Activity:nil
7/28    Merrill Lynch forecasts +1.8% GDP growth in Q2, dropping to a -2.5%
        contraction in 2008 Q4 and 2009 Q1.
        http://tinyurl.com/65bmm8 (bloomberg.com)
        \_ This would be a big drop, if true. ECRI is not showing evidence
           of that kind of drop in their leading indicators, at least not yet.
        \_ The White House predicts considerably better performance than that:
           http://preview.tinyurl.com/6j86v4 (Yahoo News)
2008/7/3-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50461 Activity:nil
7/3     Amazing rescure of 15 hostages in Colombia
        http://csua.org/u/lut (Washington Post)
        Best part: FARC was fooled by Che shirts.  WTF?
2008/6/17-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50278 Activity:nil
6/16    Pin for sale at Texas GOP state convention
        "If Obama is President... will we still call it the White House?"
http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/gop-state-convention-in-texas-if-obama.html
2008/6/15-20 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50261 Activity:nil
6/14    More Republican loan scandals in the media:
        http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aG8uEA1VgMVs
        Why do Republicans thing they're special?  These guys should be
        charged and kicked out of office.
        \_ You're being ironic, right?  ^Republican^All Politicians
           \- "studies show" senators beat the pants off of wall street
              professionals when it comes to managing their own money.
              i.e. lots of access -> insider trading going on and this
              kind of "petit corruption" is de rigeur.
              YMWTGF(ZIOBROWSKI, JFQA). --psb
           \_ Actually, all six that have so far been found to get sweet heart
              loan deals were democrats.  Thankfully they came into office in
              2006 to clean house and put an end to the culture of corruption!
2008/6/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50260 Activity:nil
6/14    The Exile:
        http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/06/russian-government-press-feedom-putin-ames-medvedev.php
2008/6/6-10 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50174 Activity:nil
6/6     Hellooooooo knife control
        http://csua.org/u/lps [washington post]
          My favorite part is Prime Minister Gordon Brown:
        Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Thursday announced a crackdown on
        teenagers carrying knives, saying that those as young as 16 will be
        prosecuted for knife possession on the first offense. Previously,
        anyone younger than 18 generally received only a warning.
          "Young people need to understand that carrying knives doesn't protect
        you, it does the opposite -- it increases the danger for all of us,
        destroys young lives and ruins families," Brown said after meeting with
        top police and government officials at his 10 Downing Street office.
        "Recent tragic events have reminded us of that."
        \_ carrying knives doesn't protect you??!?
        \_ what about utility?  What self-respecting geek doesn't carry around
           a leatherman (or equivalent) today?   -ERic
           \_ http://www.goxplore.net/guides/Knife_law_(UK
              Folding knife < 3 inches long is legal.  Having "a good reason"
              to have a knife is legal.  I'm not defending the law (or
              attacking it, it's not my country and I don't really care) but
              at least you should know what you are talking about.
           \_ In school? At an age of younger than 18? How do they get past
              the metal detectors?
2008/5/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:50058 Activity:nil
5/26    Update on Kennedy's health:
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2019155/posts
2008/3/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:49416 Activity:high
3/10    Motd poll!  Spitzer should:
        Resign and go away: .
        Stay and fight: .
        Legalize prostitution: ..
        Stay and post a picture of Kristen, 5'5" 105lbs: ..
        Encourage call-girls and clients to fly to LV: ..
                \_ mmmm.. destroy families, legally ruin the lives of more
                   young girls, make a few more movies like pretty woman to
                   give them a positive role model.
                   \_ Large scale prositution exists now.  But because it
                      is illegal and unregulated it is much nastier.  Illegal
                      immagrent sex slaves and pimps are the sort of
                      thing that regulation would drive way down.  (Not to
                      other risks involved with the occupation.)  Yes it
                      might offended your delicate sensabilities, but making
                      consenual activities illegal never helps.
                      \_ Someone thinks prostitution is bad, call them a prude,
                         declare victory!  *laugh*  It is hard to argue with
                         your "logic".
                         \_ actually it looks like he made a number of
                            substantive points that you ignored.
                            \_ Uh huh... poster's "substantive points":
                               1: fighting crime is hard. ignoring it is easy.
                               2: making crimes illegal makes them worse.
                               3: making crimes legal makes bad people stop
                                  doing those things.
                               4: you're a prude so nyah!  send in the hookers!
                               Which of these is a substantive point?
                               And how many of my points did the person reply
                               to vs. ignore? 2 were serious, 1 was tongue in
                               cheek.  *all* ignored.  Carry on.
                   \_ Trust the INVISIBLE HAND!
        Stay and post a picture of Kristen, 5'5" 105lbs: ..
        RIDE BIKE: ...
        Lie low until the furor settles down: .
        \_ RIDE BIKE so he becomed impotent, thereby removing the problem?
        \_ I can't be bothered to learn the details of this case. Can anyone
           summarize the salient points? So this guy hired a prostitute,
           anything else?
           \_ Apparently he transported her across state lines, which makes it
              a federal offense.
              \_ Did he? I thought he just mailed some money across state
                 lines. That is also a federal offence though.
                 \_ He also prosecuted others for doing exactly what he just
                    got caught doing when he was AG.
                 \_ "planning to meet a prostitute in Washington after arranging
                    for her to travel from New York."
                    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQB02sFNJ0Jg&refer=home
                    First link I got off google news.
                 \_ "planning to meet a prostitute in Washington after
                    arranging for her to travel from New York."
                    First link I got off google news. With
                    "spitzer prostitute across state line"
2008/3/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:49409 Activity:nil
3/10    NY Gov Eliot Spitzer nailed for using high-class prostitutes
        (finance sector probes delayed?)
        http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0310082spitzer1.html
        "... said that she was an American, petite, very pretty brunette,
        5 feet 5 inches, and 105 pounds" (Kristen, two hours, $4,300)
        \_ PICTURE OF KRISTEN PLEASE!!!!!!
        \_ Excuse me? Chop stick figure? Anorexic?
           \_ Hi motd boob guy.  Not all of us like fat chicks.  ok tnx.
           \_ I know cute gay guys who are taller and weigh about the same
              \_ anorexic?
                 \_ it's not anorexia if you throw up afterwards
        \_ Jackie Johnson is at least twice that figure for 1/2 the
           cost. Los Angeles is a great city, I love my Honda Accord
           HYBRID, and suburban living >>>> city.       -*wit #1 fan
2008/2/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:49216 Activity:nil
2/22    GOP lobbyist Charlie Black now conducting most of his business from
        on board the Straight Talk Express
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/21/AR2008022101131_pf.html
2008/2/11-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:49116 Activity:nil
2/11    Awesome. Pennies and Nickels are now worth twice their face value in
        metals.
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/60minutes/main3801455.shtml
2008/1/8-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:48906 Activity:nil
1/8     Angry White Man: The archives of Ron Paul's newsletters
        http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca
        \_ He's white? Wow I can't support a white man.
           \_ LGF had this 2 months ago
              http://csua.org/u/kf5
2007/12/31-2008/1/7 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:48874 Activity:nil
12/31   With all this assassination talk going on, here's a link to a very
        impressive reconstruction of the Kennedy assassination to determine
        angles, etc.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r51wZTaJ3AU&NR=1
2007/12/15-20 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:48813 Activity:low
12/15   http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/15/military.gambling/index.html
        Military Slot Machines make $130mil/year from its soldiers to
        pay for things army can't pay for.
        \_ Our education system is paid for by lottery also.
        \_ This country is endlessly willing to take advantage of the
           weak/stupid --  witness our tolerance for predatory lending.
           And we don't even bother teaching people the financial
           ramifications in school anymore.  What's more, we even made
           bankruptcy more difficult.  Most people who end up in
           bankruptcy suffered from a medical emergency, or got
           divorced.  Now we make it even more difficult for such
           people to recover--in the name of more profit for the
           already rich.  What a generous Christian country we are!
           \_ Nice troll. Are you also against freedom to smoke and
              freedom to gamble?
                \_ How about being against manipulating nicotine levels
                   to hook people without informing that nicotine was
                   as addictive as heroin?  How about being against
                   not warning tobacco companies'
                   victims that smoking causes cancer and emphysema,
                   even if TC's knew it, but rather lying about those
                   even if TC's knew it knew it, but rather lying about those
                   two things?  How about setting up slot machines
                   with a .25 payout without saying so?  Are you glad
                   that Government forced regulation on industry in
                   those instances?  Now how about some regulations
                   on predatory lending?
           \_ "Predatory lending".  Pft.  Everything is right there in front
              of the people signing.  I didn't have a single finance class of
                \_ yes, but how many of them understand it and the real
                   ramifications?  Do you think it's OK for smart people
                   to take advantage of stupid ones?  Morally OK?
                   Granted, government can't protect stupid people
                   from themselves and all of the unscrupulous smart people,
                   but right now government is aiding and abetting the
                   bastards who're taking advantage of the stupid.  You know,
                   these contracts aren't really clear, they should read:
                   "I know I am signing a contract which is likely to
                    screw me over a few years down the road".
                   screw me over a few years down the road".  Much like
                   the warnings on cigarette labels:  "Warning:  product
                   causes cancer."
                   \_ Best Troll Evar!
              any sort K-12+College but I still managed to figure out that an
                \_ congratulations, you're not stupid!  Now how would you
                   feel if by a combination of having been born stupid
                   and having been taken advantage of by someone smarter
                   than you, that you lost your house?  Do you think that
                   some divine right exists for smart people to screw
                   stupid ones over?  Now, do you think you're smarter than
                   every possible bastard who would exploit your ignorance
                   in some area to dispossess you for his benefit?
              ARM is incredibly risky, *requires* a refi before the rates go
              up and managed to figure out that the 40 year historic lows in
              the lending market were not going to stay that way forever.
              That's a totally different issue from the bakruptcy laws, medical
              or divorce induced financial collapse, etc.  No one knows they're
              going to get sick but most people do have insurance and everyone
              knows they will get sick at some point.  Divorce laws are just
              broken.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47846 Activity:nil
8/31    Awesome editorial cartoon on the Opus controversy
        http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/001189.html
        \_ Is this old news?  This seems like it is years old.
           Maybe it's not.  Inflammatory Islam cartoon is so old
           and boring.
           \_ The opus thing is current.
        \_ Correction: boring editorial cartoon on WaPo's ridiculous
           decision. The original Opus cartoon is much better:
           http://csua.org/u/jf7 (Salon.com, free)
2007/8/30-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47831 Activity:nil
8/30    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347
        10-minute police interview with Sen. Craig (D)
                \_ You realize that Sen. Craig is a republican, right?
        IE only, click "Hear an audio recording"
        \_ I got it to work in Firefox.
2007/8/17-22 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47633 Activity:nil
8/20    when was the last senator to actually win the presidential
        election?  I mean 'senator who is a senator while running',
        not former senator.
        \_ JFK. From wikipedia entry: "Kennedy is the most recent to be
           elected while serving in the Senate."
2007/8/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47590 Activity:low
8/11    Hard hitting coverage on Fred Thomson from the Washington Post.
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081101204_pf.html
        Thankfully we have the MSM to keep us well informed of the important
        and critical information we need to know about various Presidential
        contenders.  [So which wapo shill deleted this?]
        \_ Which Freeper hater keeps deleting my Free Republic link?
           \_ Write your own post.  Don't edit mine.
2007/6/29-7/2 [Reference/Law/Visa, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47129 Activity:low
6/29    Ted Kennedy self-Godwins after immigration bill dies:
        "Referring to opponents of the bill, Mr. Kennedy said: 'We know what
        they don't like. What are they for? What are they going to do with the
        12 million who are undocumented here? Send them back to countries
        around the world? Develop a type of Gestapo here to seek out these
        people that are in the shadows? What's their alternative?'"
        \_ Gush Ted, how about we enforce some of those laws from the last
        \_ Gosh Ted, how about we enforce some of those laws from the last
           amnesty bill in 86 that the Feds completely ignored?  Then after
           we try out those laws for a few years we can see where we stand.
           \_ Isn't it the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws?
              I don't think Congress has a very large police force...
              \_ Didn't PP say it's the Feds who ignored the law?
2007/6/26-28 [Politics, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47074 Activity:nil
6/26    'Power Couples' Meet in Cities, Study Finds - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/j0r
2007/5/16-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46658 Activity:moderate
5/16    Interesting that Larry Flynt shows more class than most on motd
        regarding Falwell's death.
        http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_135185122.html
        \- why exactly are we supposed to be shamed or impressed by
           larry flynt. i think his reasoning is specious: "My mother
           always told me that no matter how much you dislike a
           person, when you meet them face to face you will find
           characteristics about them that you like." ... so if you
           meet somebody who is say a racist but tells good jokes and
           cooks a mean steak you shoild try to focus on that? i wonder
           if david duke is a good BBQer.
           \_ He had a very long and bitter fight with Falwell.  And was more
              charitable to him in death than you are even though you've never
              met him.
              \- look, to me "charity" and "tolerance" toward a bigot is
                 no virtue. yes i am well aware of the the Hustler v. Falwell
                 case and i think it is quite an interest case because of
                 case and i think it is quite an interesting case because of
                 the inclusion of his mother, who was not a public figure.
                 since somebody mentions the hst nixon obit, my first thought
                 on hearing oh his passing was "he should be burned in a
                 trash can".
                 on hearing oh his passing was "he should be burned in
                 on hearing of his passing was "he should be burned in
                 /bin/trash". "he was an american monster".
                 \_ psb the Bengali, do you have a bigger penis than
                    Pujabis or other southern Indians?
              \_ Fuck this.  Falwell made his career on the backs of the less
                 fortunate or powerful, whom he routinely demonized.   He was
                 slime, and the public fellating he is currently recieving
                 is in need of a counter.  It's too bad HST isn't around - c.f.
                 his Nixon obit:
                 http://www.counterpunch.org/thompson02212005.html
                 \- this is more like it:
                    http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/nav/tap2
                    [and rememeber among non-xtians, the jews are the best of
                    the lot in thwir view. people like pat robertson say even
                    the lot in their view. people like pat robertson say even
                    worse things about people of other religions]
                    \_ Gotta love the Hitchens. "It's a shame that there is no
                       hell for Falwell to go to..."
                       \_ Speaking of whom, did you catch his latest appearance
                          on the Daily Show? He looked even more drunk than he
                          usually does.
2007/5/15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46632 Activity:nil
5/14    Sometimes the good guys win one (Gonzalez resigns):
        http://www.csua.org/u/ip4
        \_ That looks like Paul McNulty resigned, not Gonzales.
           \_ Bummer.
           \_ I misread this as Paul McCartney, and was really confused.
              \_ Paul McCartney resigned about 30 years ago.
2007/5/11-14 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46597 Activity:nil
5/11    Kiss free speech goodbye.
        http://csua.org/u/ioe
        \_ Random overly-sensational not particularly descriptive comment.
           \_ A congressional caucus got together to threaten the advertisers
              of a PBS documentary.  How is that overly-sensational?
              \_ It implies that there was some sort of official move on the
                 part of the government to end all free speech. It brings to
                 mind visions of Orwellian dystopias. Instead, what you have is
                 the market being brought to bear on the sponsors of a film,
                 and subsequent pressure from those sponsors on the maker of
                 the film. Burns is not obligated to listen to his sponsors,
                 and his sponsors are not obligated to pay attention to threats
                 from activist groups; that they did so bespeaks of nothing
                 more than a lack of conviction that the film in its original
                 form was worth fighting to the death for.
                 \_ Again, a CONGRESSIONAL CAUCUS threatened the advertisers.
                    \_ You appear to have difficulty evaluating the actual
                       significance of events.
2007/3/26-29 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46094 Activity:nil
3/26    "practically everything that our government does, plans, thinks, hears
        and contemplates in the realms of foreign policy is stamped and treated
        as secret -- and then unraveled by that same government, by the
        Congress and by the press in one continuing round of professional and
        social contacts and cooperative and competitive exchanges of
        information."  Quoting from an official affidavit that was part of the
        New York Times Co. v. United States (Pentagon Papers).  Authored by
        Max Frankel, then NYTimes chief Washington correspondent.
2007/3/21-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46046 Activity:nil
3/21    Has anyone seen a transcript of the Gore hearing today?  I checked
        on cspan, cnn, google, epw.senate.gov, and a few other places.  I can
        find video but not text.  Video is a no-go.  Thanks.
        \_ I'm hunting for Boxer's smackdown of Inhofe.  Whether or not he's
           a nutjob (and boy is he), he's one bitter motherfucker.
           link:preview.tinyurl.com/yuz478 (thinkprogress.org)
           http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/flvplayer.swf?file=http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/flv/2007/03/goreinhofe.320.240.flv
           \_ Gore sure is a hypocrite, but it is nice to see Boxer find
              her backbone.
              \- I am not a big fan of ALGOR, I certainly argued with a
                 fair number of knee jerk liberal aquaintances that he is
                 a hypocrite when it comes to his personal energy use and the
                 "i pay my way out of it" excuses nothing, but I believe that
                 issue has no place in the "senate environment cmte hearings
                 on global climate change". on a crossfire type talk show
                 you can bring up stuff like this, or william bennett being
                 a gambling addict, or ted kennedy being a hypocrite and
                 murderer, but it's not approproate here. although i dont
                 know how to have shut him down except another republican
                 saying something (and they never do .. witness TEED "the
                 hulk" STEVENS). on the other hand, maybe everytime
                 dick "i had other plans" cheney opens his mouth about iraq
                 we should call him on his elaborate moves to avoid war
                 service. but some of te mediocrities like TEED STEVENS
                 and INHOFE being in the senate is just unreal. it speaks
                 to the power of "reptilian intelligence" and low cunning.
2007/3/15-20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45986 Activity:nil 88%like:45980
3/15    I repeat, Dems are pussies
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqcoz7 (thehill.com)
        \_ You are right, they should start a war to prove how manly they are.
           \_ Yeah that didn't happen August 1964.
           \_ No, I think debating would be fine.
        \_ I love Colbert, but he can be murder on an unprepared politician
           no matter how sympathetic you may be toward them.
           \- the "cocaine and hookers" interview was great.
              \_ Agreed. Too bad the humor was lost on so many. Btw, Colbert's
                 rebuttal to his guest's critics was also great.
2007/3/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45980 Activity:high 88%like:45986
3/15    I repeat, Dems are pussies
        http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/emanuel-tells-freshmen-to-avoid-stephen-colbert-2007-03-14.html
        \_ You are right, they should start a war to prove how manly they are.
           \_ No, I think debating would be fine.
2007/3/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45926 Activity:nil
3/10    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_bi_ge/economy
        News liburals can't handle: Unemployment rate dips to 4.5 percent
        and paychecks got fatter. Tax cuts, privitization, and trickle
        down economy works afterall.
        \_ As long as they are combined with massive deficit spending.
2006/12/27-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45503 Activity:moderate
12/27   Gerald Ford, Jr. dead (formerly Leslie King Jr.)
        http://www.ford.utexas.edu
        \_ How history would have fared had he been in power instead of
           Carter who sold out the Shah. Sure the Shah was corrupt.
           But Ford would not have been forced to sell them out as he
           was to the South Vietnamese. Now we get to deal with a nuclear
           Iran. I'm glad the 4th estate is so objective vs. how history
           ultimately judges. Hopefully it'll still be in English.
           \_ You speaky English? How fuck you got into Berkeley?
              And next time I catch you responding to your own post
              it'll be deleted automatically.
        \_ When people die, regardless of what they have and have not
           done in the past, do we EVER say anything bad about them?
           \- in re: nil nisi bonum, judge for yourself:
              http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/Politics/NixonObit-HST.txt
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45183 Activity:nil
11/7    wtf #2?  The most recent poll shows the Dems with a 20-point lead
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/demos.poll/index.html
        \_ Sigh, I've been saying on the motd for a long time that polls are
           all whacky voodoo bs and just got mocked for it.  Welcome to
           reality.
           \_ The scariest part of being ahead in the polls is that it
              encourages voter apathy when "your" party is ahead in the polls.
2006/11/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45077 Activity:low
11/01   Just saw this on CNN:
        Would Alex P. Keaton back Fox on stem cells?
        \_ You could just put the URL:
           http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/01/alexpkeaton/index.html
           \_ Do you remember when CNN was 'the news network that didn't
              suck'?  What happened?
              \_ CNN cable and CNN web are different animals
2006/10/26-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:44998 Activity:nil
10/26   Ollie North, Ortega-Contra reunion tuor, 2006!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061024/ts_nm/nicaragua_usa_dc_2
2006/8/3-6 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:43885 Activity:nil
8/2     So much for freedom fries
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060802/od_afp/afplifestyleusiraq_060802203314
        \_ Mel Gibson thought freedom was worth fighting for in the
           movie Braveheart. -proud American
        \_ I think the GOP has now officially jumped the shark.
        \_ Maybe they should rename it "Crow".
                \_ Good movie.  Brandon Lee rocks.  -proud American
2006/7/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:43585 Activity:moderate
7/7     http://csua.org/u/gcf (latimes.com)
        John Yoo goes crazy
        \_ Considering that tribunals have been used in almost all major US
           conflicts (including many with no declaration of war), and that
           the majority blatantly ignored Quirin and Eisentrager, going
           to the absurd extreme of invoking Geneva accords never
           ratified by the Senate, I can only conclude you have no idea
           what you are talking about.
           If, in light of Article III of the Constitution, you celebrate
           the USSSC vacating laws passed by Congress that
               \_ The United States Standards Strategy Committee?  I think you
                  have an extra 'S'
                       \- snakes on the motd
           strip their jurisdiction over the tribunals, I ask why even bother
           with Congress?  Just do away with it and let the USSSC reign
           supreme.
           \_ hey we are supposed to treat our goddamn prisoners the
              way we would want a foreign nation to teach our goddamn
              boys if they are captured.  it's not a hard to understand
              concept.
              \_ I just wish the other side would treat our prisoners the
                 way we treat theirs.  Having your picture taken naked by
                 some skank is a lot better than being mutilated beyond
                 recognition, being decapitated and your body dumped.
              \_ That will make perfect sense when the prisoners are
                 associated with a foreign nation.  The Geneva convention
                 allows for summary execution of fighters not wearing
                 uniforms.
                 \_ No, it does not mention them.  There is a difference.
                    Anyway, according to ppp'er's logic, the POTUS could just
                    use executive power to overrule the SCOTUS.  And that
                    would be a PITA, wouldn't it?  -John
                 \_ Where does it "allow" that? Tell me the exact part where
                    it does, not some nutjob who told you that it does. You
                    are, quite simply, seriously misinformed.
                    \_ They are explicitly not covered in Article 4.  If
                       there is some question as to whether they fit in
                       one of the catagories in Article 4, a tribunal is
                       required.  Therefore, If they are explicity not
                       covered, the convention does not apply.
                       Specifically, they would only conceiveably fit
                       under Aricle 4.2, except that they don't fulfill
                       requirement b or d, and often not a or c.
                       \_ right...and of course MOTD Anonymous Coward is
                          more authoritative than the Supreme Court on
                          this issue.  -tom
                          \_ I'm totally with you.  The USSC never makes an
                             error.  So you were a big supporter of their
                             decision in Bush v. Gore in 2000 then, right?
                          \_ Wow, I didn't know we were no longer allowed
                             to disagree with SCOTUS decisions.  All hail
                             our philosopher king overlords!
                             \_ You're allowed to disagree.  You're also
                                allowed to sound like an idiot.  When you
                                regurgitate dittohead propaganda that
                                is directly contradicted by the decision
                                of the US Supreme Court, which has both
                                infinitely more experience than you and
                                has also studied the specific case in
                                far more depth than you have, you can do
                                both at the same time.  -tom
                                \_ Exactly.  I totally agree with you.  The
                                   USSC is infalible.  Bush v. Gore 2000
                                   was definitely a great ruling.  Glad you're
                                   on the same page.
                                \_ This post is meaningless.  You assume a
                                   lot and know nothing.
                                   \_ Pot kettle I'm rubber and you're
                                      glue...  -John
                       \_ Sorry, just because John Yoo claims that the
                          Geneva Convention says something doesn't make it
                          so. Every other signatory to the Geneva Convention
                          agrees that there are only three categories of
                          states that there are only three categories of
                          people under the GC: 1) combatants 2) POWs and
                          3) civilians. The International Red Cross
                          3) Non-combatants. The International Red Cross
                          agrees. And now the USSC agrees. Your RNC kool-aide
                          is poisoned, you just haven't realized it yet.
                          \_ I've read what it says, I just did again.
                             The fact the some people disagree does not
                             surprise me.  Please explain how people who
                             are explicitly excluded from the convention,
                             are actually covered by it.  I'm not
                             pro-torture, but using the Geneva convention
                             to back up that position is idiotic.
                             \_ Do you mean the 3rd Convention Article 4
                                or the 4th Convention? The 4th Convention
                                Article 4 states:
                                "Persons protected by the Convention are
                                those who, at a given moment and in any manner
                                whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a
                                conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party\
                                to the conflict or Occupying Power of which
                                they are not nationals."
                                I really don't see the exclusion you claim
                                exists in that phrase.
                                or the 4th Convention? Your statements
                                make no sense in regards to the 4th Convention.
                                Go back and reread the *4th*Convention* which
                                is where the USSC drew its claim of jurisdition
                                from.
                                \_ Oops, you're right.  I haven't had time
                                   to get through the whole 4th, but this
                                   is interesting: "Nationals of a State
                                   which is not bound by the Convention
                                   are not protected by it." No sure how
                                   that applies to people who disavow
                                   state.
                                   \_ A good, but dense analysis:
                                      link:www.csua.org/u/gcp
                                      A bunch of the 4th Convention
                                      specifically refers to spies and
                                      saboteurs, the closest approximation
                                      to todays "terrorists."
           \_ freeper nutjob on the case!
                                      \_ Spies and saboteurs belong to a
                                         nation.  They are not uniformed is
                                         the difference between them and a
                                         soldier.  A close approximation is
                                         not the same as "equal to".
                                         \_ Well, I guess that makes it all
                                            right then for the nation that
                                            holds the torch of freedom and
                                            overall higher standards to act
                                            like a bunch of fucking baboons
                                            and thugs.  -John
                                            \_ No one said that.  And we're
                                               talking about legalities here
                                               not the right/wrong morals of
                                               the situation and you know it.
                                               \_ Legalities?  Well, the USSC
                                                  sort of mooted that point
                                                  just now.  -John
                                                  \_ which means we're not
                                                     allowed to discuss it.
           \_ Who told you that the United States has not signed the Geneva
              Convention?
           \_ yoo@law.berkeley.edu send him email and tell him what you think.
           \_ Who told you that Dubya's military tribunals are structured the
              same way as in previous conflicts?
              same way as in previous conflicts?  Who told you that Quirin and
              Eisentrager are relevant?  Who told you that Congress can expect
              unconstitutional laws to be left standing?
              \_ Quirin was decided before the 4th Convention was signed, so
                 it is not relevant.
        \_ And yet after 15 replies no one has recognized that the Court,
           as I said in the first reply, does not, according to DTA,
           even have jurisdiction to hear this case.  That is the
           significance of this ruling, that the USSC directly ignored
           a Constitutionally enabled Congressional statute stripping
           it of jurisdiction.
           \_ Erm, which statute would that be?  Also, as congress has the
              power to create and define all courts INFERIOR to the Supreme
              Court, isn't this moot?
           \_ Who or what is DTA? Which Congressional statute do you claim
              stripped the USSC of jurisdiction? Congress passes
              unconstitutional laws with a distressing frequency, you do
              know that, right?
           \_ When you throw out a TLA for the first time you should
              define it. You are referring to the Detainee Treatment
              Act. The Constitutionality of this act is very much
              in question. In fact, I think the USSC just ruled part
              of it unconstitutional by their ruling, but I will have
              to research it some more. See Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld. I think
              that the DTA is unconstitutional on its face:
              "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be
               suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion
               the public Safety may require it." Art. 1, Sec. 9
2006/6/26-29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:43504 Activity:nil
6/26    Senate within one vote of passing constitutional amendment to ban
        flag burning
        http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/26/flag
        \_ Thank God our elected representatives are making us safer.
        \_ Shouldn't it set off alarm bells among (are there any left?) the
           small gvt folks that "A total of 14 Democrats, including Minority
           Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Dianne Feinstein of California,
           are expected to join 52 Republicans who support changing the
           Constitution to allow federal prohibitions of flag burning."?
           \_ Yes, but it's also a midterm election year.
           \_ The small government folks are voting for the few real
              conservatives who show up on the election rosters.
           \_ Feinstein is a sell-out and a tool.  -tom
        \_ 'In a recent USA Today editorial, (Feinstein) wrote, "There is no
           idea or thought expressed by the burning of the American flag that
           cannot be expressed equally well in another manner."'
           Does she have any idea what a foolish road that is to walk?
           \_ here's the op-ed:  http://csua.org/u/g9m
              I strongly disagree with her.  For one, her argument about
              the Lincoln Memorial is ass, as there is only one of those,
              and a ton of U.S. flags anyone can buy.
              I also watched her on CNN last week on the panel of woman
              Democrat senators, and she looked ... senile.
              This is in contrast to Boxer, who seems articulate and informed.
              \_ If their political views/votes were reversed I suspect your
                 opinion of each would reverse as well.
                 \_ I doubt it.  I've seen a lot of Boxer, but not that much
                    Feinstein.  Boxer looks dynamic; Feinstein, senile.
                    Feinstein.  Boxer looks dynamic; Feinstein, slow.
                 \_ I doubt it.  I've seen a lot of Boxer, and she's always
                    looked dynamic, informed, and articulate.
                    \_ Uh huh.  I've seen a lot of both and I think Boxer is
                       a mindless party line drone.  My politics are much
                       closer to Feinstein however so I at least realise that
                       my opinion of each is tainted by my political views.
              \_ Her conclusion is pure hand-waving.  If there is some other
                 expression similar to burning the flag, would it not also
                 be reasonable that congress has the power to block it as well?
                 \_ We should also disallow not standing up when the national
                    anthem is playing.  You diminish the bravery of every
                    soldier who has fought for the United States, some of whom
                    have been horribly injured for their sacrifice.
        \_ I might have to partake in a protest mass flag burning if this shit
           happens. I wonder if pissing on the flag will still be allowed?
           \_ A more clever way to protest this is to serve up a nice batch
              of American flag cookies, with a note pointing out that anyone
              who actually eats one would be breaking the law by directly
              transforming the American flag into excrement.
              \_ Uh... no.  The way to protest most things is to do that
                 thing on a large scale.  The sillier the thing, the larger
                 the scale.
                 \_ I think that's the wrong approach in this case.  Part of
                    the reason it didn't pass is that the severity of the
                    problem (very very small) vs. the encroachment on freedom
                    of expression makes it not appealing to pass.  If people
                    come out and start defacing the flag right and left, I
                    can't imagine it swaying opinion _away_ from passing the
                    bill.
                    \_ Uh, the bill didn't and probably never will pass and
                       even if it does that's only the start of a long process
                       to attempt to change the Constitution.  I think it's
                       stupid but if someone wants to burn the flag go ahead.
                       No one is going to change the Constitution because
                       some people in Berkeley burned the flag.
              \_ Don't forget to provide American flag napkins for the
                 crumbs.
2006/5/22-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:43142 Activity:nil
5/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060522/od_nm/leisure_nixon_odd_dc
        First they made an opera called Nixon in China. Maybe we'll see
        an opera called Bush in Iraq in the future. One can only hope.
        \_ Nixon ineptly invaded China on false pretenses leading to
           civil war and shattering what little stability was left in
           the region?  I need to keep up on my history!
           \- ObTrivia: the "they" that did the NIXON IN CHINA opera is
              composer JOHN ADAMS, who happens to live in BERKELEY. He is
              also the fellow that did the DOCTOR ATOMIC opera about fmr
              UCB Physics Prof ROPPENHEIMER, which you may have heard about
              last year. ROPPHENHEIMER's brother FOPPENHEIMER is the "they"
              behind the EXPLORATORIUM who both went to the same high school
              in NYC as my friend whose bday is today. ok tnx.
2006/5/22 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:43135 Activity:moderate 80%like:43139
5/20    Say it ain't so!  A Democrat bribery scheme?
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12903856/?GT1=8199
        \_ "All but $10,000 was recovered on Aug. 3 when the FBI searched
            Jefferson.s home in Washington. The money was stuffed in his
            freezer, wrapped in $10,000 packs and concealed in food
            containers and aluminum foil."
           C'mon, people, surely you can do better than "hiding" it in your
           freezer!
           \_cold hard cash?
2006/5/17-22 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:43079 Activity:nil
5/16    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060517/ap_en_ce/people_bill_cosby
        Crosby being a good Republican.
        \_ Crosby? Denise or Bing?
           \_ David
        \_ This isn't about partisan politics, it's about being honest to a
           community that has mired itself in a culture of victimization.
           Bill's over the top sometimes, but most of what he says are things
           the black community needs to hear and act on.
        \_ Man, the far left-wing trolls are really out in force today.
2006/5/4-9 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42936 Activity:nil
5/4     Like father, like son
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060504/ap_on_re_us/patrick_kennedy_crash
2006/5/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42912 Activity:nil 63%like:42908
5/3     Dan Silverstein Inquiry: You arent related to BSTEIN are you?
          http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/a_missing_piece.html
        BSTEIN is the son of HSTEIN. "I did not know that". ok tnx.
        \_ No.  My Aunt (Mother's sister) married a gentleman with the last
           name Stein so her kids (my cousins) have that surname, but they
           have no relationship to Ben Stein or Herbert Stein.  What led
           you to inquire?  You might as well ask if I'm related to Craig
           Silverstein of Google or Shel Silverstein, and the answer to both
           of those is no.  The name Stein, as well as combinations like
           Goldstein, Silverstein, etc., usually imply German and Stein is
           usually pronounced 'stine'.  I pronounce it 'steen,' and am of
           Russian descent on both sides, but family lore says my
           great-grandfather saw Silverstein on a cigar box, and used it in
           lieu of his actual surname, which he felt sounded too polish,
           when he immigrated. -dans
                \_ "My name is Fronkensteen"
                   \_ "Do you also say Froaderick"?
           \_ What color hair do your parent's have?
              \_ What kind of grammatical errors do your parents make? -dans
2006/5/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42908 Activity:nil 63%like:42912
5/3     Dan Silverstein Inquiry: You arent related to BSTEIN are you? ok tnx.
        http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/a_missing_piece.html
2006/4/6-7 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42711 Activity:low
4/6     Lookout! The elite Venezuelan housewife army is ready to repel any
        US invasion.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060403/wl_nm/venezuela_reservists_dc_1
        \_ If they're anything like the S. American women I've been running
           into, they'll sit around overweight in ugly dresses and sneer
           a lot.  Real deadly.  -John
           \_ Sucks to be you. Where are all the Miss Universe contestants?
              I have a Colombian friend and she is gorgeous. Thin. Tall. Fair
              complexion. Big eyes. Amazing cheekbones. Overall, I think
              South American women are some of the most beautiful in the
              world, especially if they have a lot of Spanish blood.
        \_ I thought it was about a new porn site ......
        \_ Is it lead by Alicia Machado?  I sure would want to invade to face
           her on muddy battleground.
2006/3/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/President, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42464 Activity:nil
3/27    hybrid motd boob guy / movie critic says
        Inside Man has it all:
        guns, Jews, New Jersey boobs, Denzel Washington
        being The Man, lesbians, cool shots of NYC,
        National Socialists fans, hot Albanians, racial
        politics, humor... please see this movie instead
        of fucking V FOR VENDETTA or give your money to
        a deserving homeless person outside of the theater.
        \_ See both.
           \_ take the $20 you save from not seeing these, and go buy the
              V for Vendetta collection at your local bookstore.  So much
              better.
2006/3/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42199 Activity:nil
3/12    If there is a draft, what's the best way to avoid it? Get a tatoo.
        Yep, you can't have them in the military!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/uncle_sam_wants_you
        \_ Draft?  There is no draft and there won't be one without some sort
           of catastrophy like the US mainland getting invaded or a nuke
           exchange or some other unlikely scenarios.  If we ever do have
           another draft, there won't be an easy way to avoid it because the
           circumstances will be so dire.  Drafted soldiers are against
           everything the top brass believes in for the last 30 years.
           \_ The "military experts" on the motd are just as annoying as the
              draft hysterics.
              \_ You don't have to be an expert to read newspapers and
                 understand the most trivial aspects of current military
                 doctrine.
                 \_ Ahh yes, newspapers.  Let's just fire all the generals
                    and leave the military decisions to the Sodans armed with
                    the New York Times!
                    \_ That's a weak strawman.  I said nothing of the sort.
                       If you can't address what was said, then don't.  It
                       is ok to be wrong sometimes.
                       \_ You weren't addressing my point either, which was
                          general annoyance at all the ridiculous undergrad
                          pontification that goes on around here.  Certain
                          topics seem to attract this sort of thing, like
                          flies on shit.
                          \_ The irony here is rich:  you're criticizing
                             the other guy for maybe having clue when you
                             clearly have none.  Nice.   Train harder,
                             young trollhopper.
                    \_ Sounds better than firing the generals and leaving
                       military decisions up to a moron frat boy who doesn't
                       even read the paper.
                       \_ Ahh, name calling.  Thanks for playing!
                          \_ Right, and likening people to "flies on shit"
                             is sooooo much better.  Grow up, man.
        \_ "I am gay."
2006/3/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42128 Activity:low
3/7     http://wonkette.com/politics/wonkette/our-boys-need-gossip-158687.php
        Interesting URL blocking for U.S. military forces based in Iraq.
        \_ Other articles point out that the blocking list is BS, the author
           just lined up a bunch of conservative sites that weren't blocked
           and liberal sites that were blocked.  There were plenty of liberal
           sites that were not blocked and conservative sites that were
           blocked as well.
           \_ other articles like ...?  do everyone a favor and post the URLs
              to http://wonkette.com too.
           \_ other articles like ...?
              \_ Sounds like they need better filtering technology.
                 There's this company in Mountain View that gives
                 its employees free food that can help them out.  Seriously
                 though, our soldiers should be spending more of their
                 time NOT GETTING KILLED than reading stupid ass blogs.
                 I am a big fan of COLBY BUZZELL.
                 \_ In a country where pr0n is illegal, believe me, the troops
                    NEED an uncensored Internet connection.
2006/2/15 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41867 Activity:low
2/15    Cheney (finally) takes responsibility:
        http://csua.org/u/ezl (sfgate.com)
        "You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time
         but that's the bottom line and . it was not Harry's fault," he said.
        "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and
         shot my friend."
        \_ How ironic that he would only talk to Brit Hume.
           \_ why is that ironic? Brit is straightforward, honest looking,
              and above all, handsome. He is a gent and appeals to a lot
              of people in the midwest/south who relate to him well. Do
              you rather want to see squirly looking Alan Colme?
           \_ Alanis Morissette, is that you?  How is it ironic?
              \_ He made his big apology to the one high profile journalist
                 guaranteed not to ask him any tough questions.  He might as
                 well have gone on Larry King.  It's an "accountability moment"
                 with no accountability.
                 \_ That's not ironic at all.
                 \_ Not ironic, but it certainly further cements Fox's rep as
                    the Administrations Press Corps.
                    \_ That's a wee bit much.  Hume is conservative personally,
                       but will criticize the administration. Is Jon Stewart
                       the official DNC press?
                       \_ Oh please.  Show us an example of ol' Brit
                          criticizing the administration.
2006/2/10-13 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41797 Activity:nil
2/10    "Gov't Budget Surplus Hits $21B for Jan."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_ot/budget_blank_ink
        I'm very confused.  Haven't we be having budget deficits all these
        years?
        \_ That's the balance for the month of January only.
           See http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/index.html for receipts and
           outlays for the last 25 years.
           \_ Right.  Though this report is a good January, the monthly
              surpluse/deficit fluctuates.  If you look at the monthly results,
              the receipts spike every few months and really go up each April.
              Another place for information is: http://www.cbo.gov
              -emarkp
        \_ don't worry, we'll spend it all by the end of the year
           \_ sweet.  can I choose which parts of the budget I want to support
              and get a refund on the rest?
              \_ run for a house seat and you even get free plane trips to
                 resorts, etc.  don't get caught with an intern, though.
2006/1/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41473 Activity:low
1/21    It's a GOP scandal, even the National Review admits:
        http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200601100816.asp
        \_ I'd be perfectly happy if all the corrupt garbage from both
           parties got banned from public office and lobbying forever.
           Most of Congress wouldn't be there and we could get a fresh
           start.  Anyone there for more than 1 or 2 terms is dirty but
           due to the way the two party system is designed and controls
           election districts and voters being morons, nothing will change.
           Who said the line about democracy being great until the people
           figure out they can vote themselves goodies?  That's where we
           are now and this Abramoff thing is just the tip.  I am shocked
           not that this is going on but that anyone is actually taking it
           seriously.  Where do you all think a ton of ex-politicians and
           ex-staffers go when they're not in power?  They become rich
           lobbyists.  What do you think lobbyists do?  They "buy influence"
           which is also known as "bribing politicians".  Is anyone else
           here honestly surprised this is going on?  Does anyone here
           honestly believe Abramoff is the only one bribing politicians
           or that only one party is guilty of taking bribes?  This is how
           Washington is run.  Every few years someone gets busted, they
           make a few new ethics rules for everyone to ignore and a few
           people return a tiny bit of their dirty money and life goes on.
           This is all bullshit and going nowhere.  Nothing is going to
           change, just the names.
           \_ I don't think anyone is genuinely surprised. This may turn out
              to be a way to tone down the usual corruption, or it may just
              be a hiccup in the status quo. Either way, it's not enough to
              simply recognize that this is the was it's been and then shrug
              our shoulders and live with it. Opportunities like this are a
              way for the few clean people to finally shake out the rug. Please
              don't let your politics-weary cynicism blind you to the few
              chances we have to make it right, or it will never get there.
              \_ Too late.  This turned into a political point score fest
                 on day one.  Maybe the *next* corruption scandal will be
                 different.
                 \_ "political point score fest" and cleaning up corruption are
                    not mutually exclusive.
        \_ and the Washington Post peevishly agrees: http://csua.org/u/eqc
        \_ The article fails at the end with its argument where it argues
           politicians shouldn't justify bribes because they make less
           money compared to their private counterparts. If government
           wants politicians to not take bribes, then government really
           needs to compensate them adequately.
           \_ Cops get paid much less than politicians, but there are still
              very very honest and hardworking cops.  I used to work out at
              a place that was mostly cops, and I was very impressed by the
              work ethic and sense of duty and porfessionalism some of these
              people have.  They really don't get paid all that much, and unlike
              politicians, they put their lives on the line every day, yet
              somehow our society comes up with some decent hardworking, honest
              ones who aren't on the take.  Why is it that cops can do this, but
              politicians can't?  Maybe it's because people like you have
              decided it's ok.
           \_ I couldn't help but rape that woman your honor!  Look what
              the slut was wearing!
           \_ If you can't argue with the statement that it's a Republican
              scandal, attack the article on some other grounds.  It's an
              opinion piece. TNR articles are. The point of the motd post is
              that even a conservative editorial admits the fact that
              Abramgate is a Republican scandal.
           \_ Ignoring that your post is a red herring, our argument puts the
              horse (or rather, horses' asses) before the cart. If people
              want to become politicians, they should learn to accept that
              their rank and power more than make up for a lack of monetary
              recompense. If they can't live up to the perhaps superhuman
              responsibility of living by a strict code of ethics, they
              should quit. Really, it's not as if they're not getting paid
              more than enough to live on already.
2006/1/18-20 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41417 Activity:nil
1/17    I don't get it.  Why hasn't the Smedly Butler plot gotten more
        attention, either at the time or now?
        http://www.claytoncramer.com/amcoup.html
        \_ Perhaps because it wasn't so much a plot by Smedly Butler as a
           plot defused by Smedly Butler?
           \_ Well, ok, but I mean, a bona-fide pseudo-fascist plot to
              assassinate the President and stage a military coup in
              America, and nobody even gets punished?  Talk about swept
              under the rug.
2006/1/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41274 Activity:high Entry has been invalidated. Access denied.
2006/1/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/SIG, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:41267 Activity:low
1/6     "The time has come that the American people know exactly what
        their Representatives are doing here in Washington. Are they
        feeding at the public trough, taking lobbyist-paid vacations,
        getting wined and dined by special interest groups? Or are they
        working hard to represent their constituents? The people, the
        American people, have a right to know." - Tom DeLay Nov 16, 1995
        \_ Well, now we know.
        \_ http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml
           Plug in Abramoff. The next few months are going to be fun
           to watch.
        \_ We've always known.  Both parties have been sucking away at every
           opportunity for decades.  There is no news here.
           \_ # of donations from Abramoff to Dems: 0
              \_ 1) That's not what the radio reporter said, 2) there hasn't
                 been an investigation or final ruling, 3) if this was purely
                 a (R) problem, I'd expect the (D)'s to be jumping all over
                 it which they're not, 4) Abramoff isn't exactly the first
                 instance of payoffs and corruption in DC and I find it
                 intellectually dishonest that you would bring up a current
                 event which isn't fully fleshed out or known and compare it
                 to a blanket statement about previous decades as if this
                 was the only event of corruption ever seen.  Try again.  You
                 are a total idiot if you think (R) = evil and (D) = good.
                 They're all just people and people are what they are no
                 matter what little letter gets printed next to their name
                 on CNN.
                 \_  Neither party is really evil or good, but I think Bill
                     Frist for instance is quite simply an evil man.  I think
                     there are several people in Congress who do not believe
                     in freedom, and whose entire ideology comes from the desire
                     for power, particuarly theocratic power.  They're all
                     republicans.
                     \_ So there are no evil (D)'s huh?  Okey dokey!
                        \_ Name one who is as evil as Frist.
                           \_ Pretty much the entire Kennedy family but the
                              current senior Senator from MA in particular
                              has a special story.
                              \_ In a word, bullshit.  I don't think any
                                 Kennedy is a threat to the U.S. the way
                                 Frist is.  If that guy becomes president,
                                 I expect to see prison camps for political
                                 dissenters, elimination of the non-executive
                                 branches of government and bibical law within
                                 the first couple years, followed by however
                                 many years of dictatorship it takes for
                                 revolution, coup or war to bring it all down.
                                 We've already had a Kennedy in the whitehouse,
                                 and this is just not a threat from them.
                                 Just because you dislike them personally
                                 doesn't make them evil.
                                 \_ You are confusing your opinion with the
                                    historical fact.  You can expect the
                                    moon to be made of cheese.  It does not
                                    make it so.  The last Kennedy in the WH
                                    brought us to the very edge of nuclear
                                    war in a way no one else has.  Thanks.
                \_ The Democrats are jumping all over this. You are not
                   paying too much attention to the news.
                   \_ KOS isn't a news source.
2005/11/21 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:40683 Activity:nil
11/21   CNN hates Cheney!
        http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3cnc.htm
2005/11/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:40500 Activity:nil
11/8    http://drudgereport.com accidentally flips prelim. Virginia election results
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1518401/posts
2005/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:40459 Activity:high
11/4    Washington Post is caught campaiging for Maryland
        Democrats and perpetrating fraud.  This is the
        Dan Rather episode all over again.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=md4bush
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/04/AR2005110401908_pf.html
        \_ posted by jblack
2005/11/1-4 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40398 Activity:nil
11/1    Kind of ironic that the American Gulag is in Eastern Europe:
        "The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important
        al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according
        to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement."
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html?nav=rss_email/components
        \_ while(bushinoffice())reasons_to_impeach++;
           \_ so the actual impeachment would never happen...
              \_ Of course not, you think a republican congress would ever
                 impeach a republican president?  there is no way.  It might
                 happen if democrats win the house in '06, but still unlikely.
2005/11/1-3 [Computer/Theory, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:40385 Activity:nil
11/1    Anyone watch Prison Break? I caught a few episodes but I have no
        idea what this 'fibonacci' thing is people are looking for.
        \_ According to a quick google search, Fibonacci is an informant.
           ... a person, by the way...
        \_ http://www.entertainyourbrain.com/prisonbreakrev.htm
        \_ F(0) = F(1) = 1, F(i) = F(i-1) + F(i-2) for i > 1.
2005/10/13 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:40058 Activity:moderate
10/12   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9629463/site/newsweek
        Conservative columnist George Will:
        "Conservatives are not supposed to be cuddly, or even particularly
        nice. They are, however, supposed to be competent. And to know that
        scarcity--of money, virtue, wisdom, competence, everything--forces
        choices. Furthermore, they are supposed to have an unsentimental
        commitment to meritocracy and excellence. The fact that none of those
        responsible for the postwar planning, or lack thereof, in Iraq have
        been sacked suggests--no, shouts--that in Washington today there is no
        serious penalty for serious failure. Hence the multiplication of
        failures."
        \_ No, the conservatives have only one main function, and that is
           to keep the liberals out of power.
           \_ No, you're confusion conservatives and liberals with R's and D's.
        \_ "Duh" -- good link
        \_ Those aren't really Conservative values, but more military
           values. Conservatives are supposed to say "praise Jesus" all
           day and strive for theocracy.
2005/10/3-5 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39964 Activity:nil
10/3    DeLay indicted on second charge: money laundering
        http://csua.org/u/dln (statesman.com)
        \_ WOOOOOOOOOOO!
           What cell do I send his ham sandwich to?
           \_ You mean the ham sandwich the grand jury indicted as well?
              \_ Ham sandwiches are dangerous.  Put both of them in the
                 cell.  See who survives.
                 \_ Republican + pork?  I think they'll get along just fine.
                    \_ It's jail. There will be plenty of the other white meat
                       to get along with.
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39651 Activity:low
9/12    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/13/opinion/13tierney.html - danh
        \_ Those a certainly a step up from Kennedy and his 3 minute
           questions.
           \- Did Souter write an opinion in Kelo? I thought it was
              only Stevens?
              \_ Stevens wrote the majority opinion for himself,
                 Kennedy, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer. Kennedy
                 wrote a concurrence. O'Connor wrote a dissent
                 joined by Rehnquist and the Defenders of All
                 That is Good and Holy (ie Scalia and Thomas).
                 \- so was this deliberate by the author or a mistake
                    by the NYT fact checkers. it is misleading i think.
2005/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39447 Activity:low
9/2     I guess America let its national geographic subscription lapse
        this is from last year
        http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5 - danh
        \_ Yeah, but New Orleans is full of poor black people.  Who gives a
           fuck about them?
           \_ Plus all of the evil-doers in NO. After years and years of
              eating shrimp, they get their just desserts! God hates
              crustatean eaters!
              \_ http://www.godhatesfigs.com
              \_ That's "Freedom Shrimp" to you.
        \_ Nor Scientific American from 4 years ago: http://csua.org/u/d8l
2005/9/1-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39429 Activity:nil
9/1     Hastert to city: Drop dead.
        http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/342517p-292444c.html
        \_ "But you know we build Los Angeles and San Francisco on top of
           earthquake fissures and they rebuild too. Stubbornness."
           he meant 'stubbornness' in a good way right
        \_ Really nice thing to say while dead bodies are floating in the
           streets.
           He meant 'stubbornness' in the good way right
2005/8/8-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39035 Activity:nil
8/8     At least 80 wealthy liberals have pledged to contribute ...
        to compete with the potent conservative infrastructure built up
        over the past three decades.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/rich_liberals_vow_to_fund_think_tanks
        That's weird, I only heard about the conservative build-up now.
        I didn't know they have been building up even before I was born.
        \_ "The goal of the alliance, according to organizers, is to foster
           the growth of liberal or left-leaning institutions equipped to take
           on prominent think tanks on the right, including the Heritage
           Foundation, the Hoover Institution, the American Enterprise
           Institute and the Cato Institute, as well as such training centers
           as the Leadership Institute and the Young America's Foundation.

           Almost all the alliance partners have been active donors of the
           Democratic Party and liberal interest groups. Many said they have
           concluded that their spending to date has lacked strategic
           coherence."
           Oh give me a fucking break.  The Cato Institute is conspiring with
           the neocons as part of a Vast Rightwing Strategic Vision to Reshape
           the World.  The fact that 'the Left' is finding itself 'without a
           voice' is somewhat ironic.  Aside from Murdoc's holdings, American
           mainstream media has a mostly moderate-left presentation to it.
           It's probably moved to the right a little since 2004. -- ilyas
           \_ The left already has a huge, well funded national level organ
              for getting the word out: the public school system and vast
              majority of universities.  The problem the DNC has isn't getting
              the message out, it is the message.  Or lack thereof.
           \_ I don't think you can call it a conspiracy when it is
              right out there in the open like that. -ausman
              \_ So the Cato institute is a ring-wing organization now?
              \_ So the Cato institute is a right-wing organization now?
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ When wasn't it? It has been funded by Scaife, The Olin
                    Foundation and the usual batch of large corporations
                    from the start. A bunch of their "scholars" move around
                    between them, the AEI and The Hoover Institute, though
                    I would call them big business conservatives, as opposed
                    to the holy roller type, myself. -ausman
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38588 Activity:nil 76%like:38586
7/12    Another DeLay ally indicted:
        http://csua.org/u/cp3 (WashPo)
2005/7/12 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38586 Activity:nil 76%like:38588
7/12    Another DeLay ally indicted:
        http://csua.org/u/cp3 (WashPo)
        Republicans. You just can't trust them.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:38563 Activity:nil
7/12    CPB ombudsmen report back on NPR bias: thumbs-up
        http://csua.org/u/cos (wash post)
2005/6/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:38025 Activity:nil
6/7     Unpatriotic news poll from Washington Post shows Americans don't
        think Iraq war has made US safer. This is on the headline news of
        MSNBC. Interestingly, Fox News uses Mrs. Robinson as the headline.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8135134
2005/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37954 Activity:high
6/2     Wow, Ben Stein has a... different view of Nixon.
        http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242
        \_ Ben Stein has always quite proudly been a Republican
           tool.  G Gordon Liddy's views on Nixon are funnier. - danh
           \_ No, the funniest was probably the recent Peggy Noonan column,
              where she called W. Mark Felt a bringer of death and then
              claimed that the most honorable man in the Nixon administration
              was Chuck Colson.
              \_ Mark Felt is actually Pol Pot's father.
           \_ Not just a republican tool. He was a speechwriter and lawyer
              for Nixon.
        \_ Not really, if you saw Nixon it has a lot of the points
           made by Stein, and I doubt Stone is a fan of the RNC.
           As for the Khmer Rouge allegation, I highly doubt that
           though. Would the KR have ever existed if we had gotten
           out of Vietnam earlier? It's an interesting point because
           \_ Or if we had stayed out of cambodia, period.
           it was the Vietnamese who finally overthrew KR. Also,
           would the KR have ever existed without the Vietnamese
           conflict? Most likely not. It's really tricky to determine
           geopolitics like this. Nixon also probably would have let
           KR happen, Nam was a lost cause, and getting China was much
           more important than protecting southeast asia.
        \_ Stein is correct. Nixon was a good president and a
           decent human being who was unfairly attacked by the
           left wing nut-cases in this country. He got overly
           involved in a minor crime which was his ONLY fault.
           \_ "Only"...  If you can't find faults in a leader, you're following
              a little too blindly.
           \_ "Now there are some who would like to rewrite history:
              revisionist historians is what I like to call them." --GWB
           \_ "I don't want to see this country to go that way.  You
              know what happened to the Greeks.  Homosexuality
              destroyed them. Sure, Aristotle was a homo, we all know
              that, so was Socrates."  -RMN
           \_ "They're not like us. They smell different, they look
              different, they act different.  The trouble is, you
              can't find one that's honest."  -Nixon on Italians
           \_ "You know, it's a funny thing, every one of the bastards
              that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish. What
              the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob? What is the
              matter with them? I suppose it is because most of them
              are psychiatrists."  -RMN
           \_ "Do you know what happened to the Romans?  The last six
               Roman emperors were fags. . . .  You know what happened
               to the popes?  It's all right that popes were laying
               the nuns."  -RMN
           \_ "You have to face the fact that whole problem is really
              the blacks. The key is to divise a system that reconizes
              this while not appearing to..."  -RMN
              \_ I guess it makes sense that Nixon is a hero to the
                 anonymous troll wingnuts.  -tom
                 \_ ... and to Ben Stein!
                        \_ Am I naive to think that a President doesn't
                           have to massively abuse his power to be President?
2005/5/23-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37814 Activity:nil
5/23    Fox's angle on Star Wars vs. Republicans:
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157229,00.html
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157229,00.html
        \_ I see everything twice!
        \_ "By and large, the rebellion's supporters were ordinary people who
            wanted self-determination, republican government, and free
            enterprise in place of the Galactic Empire's oppression, economic
            controls, and high taxes."
           Typical Fox handwaving, to imply that republican government is
           the equivalent of Republican-dominated government.
2005/5/4 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:37517 Activity:moderate
5/4     http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/05/04/british.election
        Do YOU guys want Blair to win? Poll:
        Yes:
        No: .
        \_ It's pretty much a foregone conclusion.
        \_ I want Blair to step-down and have another Labour Party member
           step in as PM, saying, "Yeah, Blair lied.  I'm the new guy!"
           Or, I want Blair to say, "Yeah, I lied about these specific things."
           Then I would want him to win.
           \_ I want Blair to step-down and say "Yeah, I lied, in fact, Georgy
              promised me goodies if I lied."
           \_ They'll get Brown soon enough.  -John
        \_ We should start a letter writing campaign to tell regular British
           voters it's important for us that they vote Tory.  Yeah, that'll
           work.
2005/4/26-27 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37372 Activity:kinda low
4/26    If you had to filibuster, what would you talk about for around two
        hours?
        \_ I think I would read the motd archives.
        \_ if you pause for ten seconds, do you have to give up the floor?
           \- the hall is basically empty.
        \_ we haven't had a real filibuster since 1968.  it's the
           threat of the filibuster that keeps the majority of the senate
           from going wild - danh
        \_ I'd pick up The Art of Computer Programming and read aloud.
           \- you could read from lynn cheney's lesbo p0rn novel. --psb
        \_ Probably read Dr. Seuss books, followed by Shel Silverstein poems,
           followed by Shakespeare.
        \_ I'd perform a reading of The Iliad in the original Greek. Even
           though I can't speak Greek, I'd just try to wing it.
        \_ In past filibusters they read from the phone book.  Not sure if it
           was the white pages or the yellow pages.  Personally, I'd take the
           opportunity to read Ulysses. -dans
           \_ Finnegan's Wake would be much more entertaining.  -tom
             \- I think it would be kind of funny to see EED KENNEDY
                 reading the Monologue by M. BLOOM. However, I still think
                 the CHENEY lesbo work would be best. Maybe the God hates
                 Shrimp or Song of Songs or weird parts of Leviticus too.
                 What would be the point of reading from Shakespeare?
                 "Lynne Cheney's version of a happy ending: the protagonist
                 is rescued from lesbianism and anticapitalism when incest
                 steps in to save the day." --psb
2005/4/20 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37284 Activity:nil
4/20    Please explain to me why DeLay thinks that doing web searches
        on your own are incredibly outragous?
        "Absolutely. We've got Justice Kennedy writing decisions based
        upon international law, not the Constitution of the United States?
        That's just outrageous," DeLay told Fox News Radio on Tuesday
        "And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own
         research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous."
2005/4/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37117 Activity:nil
4/8     Harvesting Illegals
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17649
2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35866 Activity:nil
1/23    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1324513/posts
2005/1/3-4 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35527 Activity:high
1/3     The Jaime Kennedy show is COOL! You should've seen Penelope
        Cruz's face when Jaime (pretending to be a reporter) asked her
        if she was a Mexican, and when she said she was Spaniard,
        he asked "What is that? Is that like an European Mexican?"
        \_ Hahahaha, I can imagine...
        \_ Jaime Kennedy, the great latin entertainer? perhaps you mean Jamie.
           \_ "The great latin entertainer?  Is that like an entertainer that
              speaks Latin?"
        \_ Oh the hilarity!
2004/11/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35070 Activity:nil 54%like:35065
11/24   Republicans are winning everything, even in Washington!!!
        http://tinyurl.com/639oc (cnn.com)
        \_ If it's a state-wide hand-recount, I bet the DemocRAT wins!
2004/11/24 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35069 Activity:moderate
11/24   Stupid question.  Why USA complains about Ukraine's election, but
        never bother to complain about election in TW, which is extremely
        frauded?
        \_ Cuz TW is just a puppet state. As long as the motherboards keep
           coming who cares who's president. It's like worrying about the
           governor of Washington, the real power is BGates.
                \_ what happened to the taiwanese leader who had himself
                   shot? - danh
                   \_ He certified himself as the election winner and is now
                      busily rewriting TW's history textbook to remove any
                      mention of China while adding praise of Japanese
                      imperial army's heroic conduct during WWII.
2004/11/24 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:35065 Activity:nil 54%like:35070
11/24   Republicans are winning everything, even in Washington!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/24/wash.governor.race.ap/index.html
        \_ If it's a state-wide hand-recount, I bet the DemocRAT wins!
2004/11/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:34995 Activity:very high
11/19   What is the political slant of the following people?
   1. William H Gates III
   2. Warren E Buffett
   3. Karl & Theo Albrecht
   4. Paul G Allen
   5. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud
   6. Lawrence J Ellison
   7. Alice L Walton
   8. Helen R Walton
   9. Jim C Walton
  10. John T Walton
  11. Theodore Leanord
  12. Robert Wainright
  13. Agnes P Johanson
  14. John C. Dvorak
  15. Miles F. Chancery
  16. Henry Mulborough
        \_ walton, walmart, hick states, very very red. Buffet, Bush's buddy,
           should also be very red. I'm guessing that Gates is very blue
           because he's in Washington, but that's kind of far fetched.
           \_ Buffet's a liberal.  Gates is an Ayn Rand fan, apparently.
           \_ Buffett's a liberal.  Gates is an Ayn Rand fan, apparently.
                -- ilyas
              \_ Buffett is a Democrat, but he's hardly a liberal.  -tom
                 \_ I ve heard enough from Buffett to know he is only not
                    a 'real liberal' to a Berkeley kook like you. -- ilyas
                 \_ Probably the best description of Buffett is
                    "Fiscal Conservative Democrat".
              \_ Ayn Rand, objectivism, self reliant, etc etc etc.
                 Republican?
                 \_ Objectivists range from (moderate) conservative to
                    libertarian.  They don't like government very much.
                      -- ilyas
        \_ Larry Ellison. The bastard is the most conceited, selfish
           dickhead who cares about nothing except beating Gates.
           You know I've never seen him at work the 5 years I was at
           Oracle, a company that makes *1* great [overpriced] product
           and 99 other shitty products, like apps, tools, ERP, CRM.
           Anyways, Ellison reminds me of Bush with his "fuck everyone
           else" attitude, so if I had to make a guess, I'd say he's
           a Republican. In fact I'd say most of the people on the
           list are probably Republicans.
2004/11/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:34593 Activity:nil
11/3    What an election: What I do know is that this has been
        one hell of a slam bang election season.
        Tony Blankley worked for Newt Gingrich and is editor
        of Wash. Times
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/tonyblankley/tb20041103.shtml
2004/8/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:33168 Activity:nil
8/26    Lincoln Night Vision Guy: AFAIK, it is Kennedy that has
        night vision, not Lincoln. I've seen it in use and it is
        only moderately useful if you live in a place without a lot
        of street lights (say highway 9 or something). Basically,
        it is just a gimmick.
        \_ I take 4 to Pittsburg in total darkness, very useful. Also
           my nightvision is totally fucked so I see 50% less than most
           people.
2004/8/26 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:33159 Activity:very high
8/26    Kill me now.  This is incredibly stupid.
        http://csua.org/u/8rv
        \_ Old news.  My dad (public high school teacher) was grading in green
           ink 10 years ago to avoid irate parents and administrators saying
           he was psychologically scarring them.
           \_ The funny is the stupid psycho babel the use the justify
              purple as the perfect pen color for corrections.  I prefer
              green myself.
        \_ Soon they'll do away with grades, since they're so scarring.
           Why are American kids such wimps?
           \_ I had no grades until middle school and I did fine, by all
              accounts.
           \_ Your mistake is blaming the kids.
                \_ OK fair enough. It actually IS the adults, for
                   considering the child's complaint int he first place.
        \_ RED INK!  RED INK IS THE STANDARD BITCHSLAP!
           \_ In Hong Kong all school teachers use red ballpen to grade.
2004/8/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:33126 Activity:nil
8/24    More garbage from the State Department, a waste of taxpayer money.
        Islamic Influence Runs Deep in American Culture
        http://csua.org/u/8ra
2004/8/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:32703 Activity:very high
8/4     What is a decent book on general US history?  One that is intelligent
        and well researched, not consists of fairy tale or only diatribes,
        and the intended audience are neither freepers nor Spartakusbund.
        Ok thanks.
        \_ I am Spartakusbund!
                \_ No, I am Spartakusbund!
        \_ Personally, I think that the people with an axe to grind tend to
           be the best writers, and that it's useful to read biased stuff
           like "A People's History of the United States" as long as you
           recognize and igore the bias and the propoganda.  I'd be curious
           to know what the conservative equivalent of Zinn's book is.
           A history text with no bias at all which attempts to cover all
           of U.S. history will probably be a massive compilation of
           dry facts with no focus on anything that's not very readable, IMHO.
           I'd love to see a counterexample to this, however.
           \_ agreed.  one (of many) good things about 'peoples history...'
              is that he specifically chooses his biases, and states them
              in the introduction.  and his biases cover a lot of information
              that is rarely touched upon in more conservative history books.
              plus it was a fun read.
        \_ The Americans series by Daniel J. Boorstin (former Librarian of
           Congress and yaDJB :-)) is pretty good:
           Colonial Experience:   http://tinyurl.com/63gey
           Democratic Experience: http://tinyurl.com/55gc2
           National Experience:   http://tinyurl.com/594nv
           I also liked his Discovers: http://tinyurl.com/4cyov
           --ranga
           \_ What's yaDJB?  Yet another himself????
        \_ A People's History of the United States is pretty good and
           non-biased. by Howard Zinn.
           \_ your idiocy knows no bounds.
              \_ and your recommendation is ....
              \_ yes! I think this counts as my first successful troll.
                 \_ whatever.  i was calling you an idiot because the first
                    reply was about Zinn's book, and the reply to that
                    was also about Zinn's book.
2004/7/28 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:32551 Activity:nil
7/28    Gerald Ford kinda sucks.
        http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/gerald-ford
        \_ But he invented the Ford Model T!  Hail to the Father of Affordable
           Automobile!
2004/7/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:32415 Activity:insanely high
7/21    I typed "What is fascism" in Google because I never really understood
        what the hell it is... the closest I ever came to a definition was
        "It's the opposite of communism. SO opposite that they are very
        similar." Anyway, here's the first link:
        http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html
        What's wrong w/ fascism and how different is it from our society?
        \_ Remember that Mussolini started out as a strong left-winger.
           Fascism was a combination of nationalism and statism--the idea
           being to bind the population very strongly to the state, and
           to essentially let industry run its course as long as it supports
           the goals of the (authoritarian) state.  Usually associated with
           militarization and a pronounced regimentation of society, and
           almost always gone horribly wrong.  -John
           almost always gone horribly wrong--as with communism, stemming
           from partially understandable (admirable, for some) ideals, any
           ideology that provides for strong state control is easily misused
           by bad people in jackboots.  Comes from the fasces, or rods & axe,
           used as a symbol of Roman justice (cue psb)  -John
           \_ Oh yeah, you can also enter 'define xyz' on Google.  -John
        \_ People in America is completely blind when we are talking about
           fascism, especially consider we have concluded that
           Nazi = absolute Evil, and Hitler = some sort of anti-Christ.
           The reality is that American and Nazi are not *ALL* that different
           in terms of their view on communism, and their view on race.
           \_ troll
             \_ Dear MOTD, I recently acquired a baby chicom troll.  He's
                cute, and aside from an amusing inability to conjugate verbs,
                very amusing to me and my guests.  Unfortunately, he wets
                the couch almost daily!  Am I feeding him wrong?
        \_ dict fascism
        \_ um, we already had this thread. search for "mussolini":
           /home/digital/mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v
           are you just trolling? "what's wrong with absolute authority?"
           \_ THis is a delayed response to that thread. That thread was more
              negative towards fascism (did you read the original url?) and
              also more political, as it was more about Bush and the present
              day. This thread more hints at that and is more theoretical.

              I asked the question because in italy i met so many ppl who called
              themselves fascist, and i didnt really understadn waht the meant.
        \_ Why do some people have a problem with the term
           "Islamofascist?"  Every definition of fascism I've seen fits
           the Islamic militants perfectly.
           \_ Maybe because it equates all Islam with fascism?
              \_ Does it?  Does "Germanic Fascism" equate all germans with
                 fascists?
                 \_ I dunno.  Generally when I've seen the phrase in action,
                    such equating is what's going on.
                    \_ Hmm.. if you say so.  I've only seen it used a few
                       times.  I don't remember the context.  I just
                       remember someone on the motd getting all huffy
                       about it a few weeks ago.
        \_ I recommend this great essay on fascism by David Neiwert:
           http://www.cursor.org/stories/fascismintroduction.php
           \_ I knew the essay was going to be good when I saw the picture at
              the top... it didn't disappoint. -- ilyas
              the top... it didn't disappoint.  To summarize: 'proto-fascist
              movements' are any movements I, the educated liberal, do not
              like, including the gun nuts, the libertarian groups, etc.
              If any of their ideology contradicts historical fascism,
              then that's because fascism is 'mutative.'  Once those guys
              acquire power, they ll start with the Jew burning like the Nazis.
              Basically, I have license to call anything fascism.  The end.
              Rush Limbaugh calls things he doesn't like 'fascist' but he is
              both an entertainer AND an idiot.  The author of the essay has
              no such excuse.  -- ilyas
              \_ I'm curious ilya.  Why do you think being an 'entertainer'
                 lets someone off the hook for being a demagogue and/or an
                 idiot?  Entertainers have just as much impact on the
                 dialectic than serious thinkers, if not much more in our
                 dumbed down "pop" driven culture.
              \_ No that is not what that series of articles says at all.
                 Did you even read the whole thing? I am a pretty fast
                 reader and it took me four hours from the time it was
                 posted to the motd. I am disappointed with you.
                 \_ It is pretty clear he didn't read any more than what
                    proved his initial hypothesis based on the picture. No,
                    it couldn't be that he was, gasp!, a little intellectually
                    lazy? Give the articles a read and some time. I found them
                    insightful and well-informed.
                 \_ You have far too much time on your hands.
2004/6/29 [Reference/Law/Court, Science, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:31059 Activity:nil
6/29    Supreme Court rejects Internet porn law
        "Holding a new trial will allow discussion of what technology, if
        any, might allow adults to see and buy material that is legal for
        them while keeping that material out of the hands of children.
        Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Clarence Thomas and
        Ruth Bader Ginsburg agreed with Kennedy"
        (There's no pubic hair in Justice Thomas' Coke!)
        \_ Given that he has heard so many trials, he must have shaven it all
           while in the courtroom.
2004/5/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:30423 Activity:high
5/25    Don't believe it could happen?
        http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html
        \_ it?  what it?  fucking trolls.  im not going to read your zero
           content teaser link.  that's almost as bad as a cock tease.  get off
           the motd you link tease.
           \_ It's not like it's a disguised freeper link.
              \_ It might as well be.  Why can't OP just say what "it" is?
                 Link tease!
                 \_ Operation Northwoods
                    \_ Which means what?  "Don't believe Operation Northwoods
                       could happen?  <url here>"  Ok, so what?
2004/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:30071 Activity:nil
5/6     Cover of the new Economist:
        http://www.economist.com/images/20040508/20040508issuecovUS400.jpg
        \_Damn liberal media
        \_ And where were the calls for Reno to step down after she immolated
           a few dozen children and women in Waco?
           \_ I see.  It's her fault they were too nutty to leave the building?
              In any case, some people *did* call for her to step down at the
              time.
              \_ Uh, I don't think you are very familiar with that incident.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ Most of America agrees with him:
                    http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/printerfriend/index.asp?PID=16
                    \_ Over 100 people were immolated by the Fed government and
                       you respond with a fucking poll!!??  The MOTD is
                       populated with fascist leftists.. I see that now.
              \_ Can someone tell me what religions are sacntioned by the Fed
                 government so I don't have to be worried about immolation?
                 Thanks!
                 \_ just try to tone down the incest, pedophilia, and weapons
                    stockpiling.
                    \_ Good little fascist.  Why don't you scroll through these
                       autopsy photographs:
              http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_list07.html
           \_ All over the place, don't you remember? Republicans in Congress
              demanded that she step down.
              \_ On the cover of the economist? the washington post? the
                 nytimes?
                 \_ latimes ran an opinion piece saying she should step down
                    over it in 1999.
                    \_ oooh an opinion piece on page A21.  You're position is
                       completely vindicated!
                 \_ The story behind the cover is likely that Democrats are
                    calling for Rumsfeld's resignation.  The cover looks like
                    The Economist is calling for hist resignation, but it's
                    probably just reporting that others are doing it.  Bad
                    cover IMO. -emarkp
                    \_ No, I read the article, the economist is calling for
                       him to resign.  This doesn't surprise me, however.
                       Waco is an internal incident -- Iraq has international
                       ramifications (well you can argue Waco does too...)
                       Certainly, I consider both incidents atrocities.
                         -- ilyas
2004/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:13334 Activity:moderate 62%like:13330
4/22    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2985728.stm
        [mr. t ?.  Right On!   ... duz he gots' some carea' somewhere?] --psb
        \_ A bit uh Mr. T. trivia: afta' de A-Team, Mr. T. nearly died uh one
           uh dose ho'rible degenerative diseases.  He survived and recovered
           but dun didn't wo'k fo' many many years durin' dat time and blew
           most uh his bre'd on treatment and simple daily livin'.  Mr. T.
           gots'ta only recently started wo'kin' again as some mino' characta'
           in some numba' of shows/movies.  He gots'ta done some lot uh charity
           wo'k ova' de years, mostly fo' childhood "fuck down yo' whole life"
           diseases.
                --Mr. T. #1 Fan
        \_ Little knode Mr. T fact: back in 1984, Mr. T reco'ded some album of
           incredibly stereotypical electro-funk-rap, sindesiza' solos
           included. It be called "Mr. T's Be Somebody (Or Be Somebody's Fool)"
           and features Mr. T "rappin'" about how pea' pressho' nuff be bad-ass
           and ya' should treat yo' moda' right.  Must be heard t'be recon'd.
           \_ I am curious. Is there more than one person who thinks rendering
              threads unreadable this way is funny or is it just a single
              person? -- ulysses
           \_ Post link.  Right On!    PLEASE.  Right On!
              \_ http://www.inzenity.com/mrt/index.html (Ice-T wuz producer,
                 apparently)
              \_ Maybe if youse lucky, I'll put it down fo' waaay download
                 tonight.  Meanwhile, try Soulseek.  Dat's where ah' found it.
                 ah' doubt de RIAA gots'ta spank ya' fo' dis one.
                 \_ Dat's right, de RIAA wants's ya' t'respect yo' mama.
                    Sheeeiit.
        \_ I would really like to see a Mr. T & Gary Coleman buddy movie.
           It could even have a Thunderdome scene where Gary rides on
           Mr. T's sholders and directs him to kill things.  Oh yeah.
           What chu talking about, Foo'?
           \_ If that movie could have Gary Busey and Ken Foree in supporting
              roles, it would be the Best Movie Ever.
              \_ Someone call the movie studios!  We've got a hit on our
                 hands, and it'll be really cheap to make. $4 an actor and
                 a black van rental!
2004/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:13330 Activity:nil 62%like:13334
4/22    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2985728.stm
        [mr. t ?! ... does he have a career somewhere?] --psb
        \_ A bit of Mr. T. trivia: after the A-Team, Mr. T. nearly died of one
           of those horrible degenerative diseases.  He survived and recovered
           but didn't work for many many years during that time and blew most
           of his money on treatment and simple daily living.  Mr. T. has only
           recently started working again as a minor character in a number of
           shows/movies.  He has done a lot of charity work over the years,
           mostly for childhood "fuck up your whole life" diseases.
                --Mr. T. #1 Fan
        \_ Proof that polls are retarded!
        \_ Little known Mr. T fact: back in 1984, Mr. T recorded an album of
           incredibly stereotypical electro-funk-rap, synthesizer solos
           included.  It's called "Mr. T's Be Somebody (Or Be Somebody's Fool)"
           and features Mr. T "rapping" about how peer pressure is bad and you
           should treat your mother right.  Must be heard to be believed.
           \_ Post link!  PLEASE!
              \_ Maybe if you're lucky, I'll put it up for download tonight.
                 Meanwhile, try Soulseek.  That's where I found it.  I doubt
                 the RIAA will spank you for this one.
                 \_ That's right, the RIAA wants you to respect yo' mama.
2004/4/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:13094 Activity:nil
4/8     While we're at it:
        CNN:  U.S. suffers more casualties, gaining ground
        Washington Post:  Insurgents Fortify Control
        NY Times:  U.S. Vows to Retake 2 Southern Cities in Hands of Militants
        LA Times:  General Sees Prolonged Insurgency
        Fox News:  Operation Resolute Sword Under Way
        Boston Globe:  Shiite militias control three Iraqi cities
        ... You could say it's the liberal media being liberal and CNN
        portraying things in a positive light; you could say CNN is
        distributing the news from White House press releases.  I suppose the
        truth lies somewhere in between.
        \_ CNN is a joke - they are getting pounded in the ratings and I
           suspect they think they can get the viewers back by trying to
           be more like Fox.
2004/3/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:12577 Activity:nil
3/8     Stop dwelling on the Floriday election people - it doesn't matter
        that people were scrubbed from the voters rolls- elections are
        determined by those who actually vote.  You can only guess at
        what these others would have done, or if they even would have
        showed up.  Although, imo, scrubbing should be done before the
        primary, not in between.  That gives those improperly knocked
        out time to raise hell.  FL is just like San Francisco - the
        election machinery is a joke.  Here we just don't have close races,
        or even races at all.  I vote absentee and avoid it all.
        \_ good point, voter fraud is fine.
           \_ Nah, it's only bad when a Republican won.  There was (apparently)
              hardly any voter fraud to worry about when Clinton won, or during
              any other race that wasn't close.  Because you know, if there
              _was_ voter fraud then, I am sure you diligent non-partisan
              folks would have been screaming about it at the top of your
              lungs too.
              \_ anything specific, or are you just talking out of your ass?
                 \_ Nah, I am sure it was nothing.  I think republicans
                    invented presidential voter fraud in 2000.
                    \_ What is your point?
                       \_ My point, my frothy friend, is that if you dislike
                          voter fraud, you should have been yelling about it
                          all these years.  As it is, your serendipidous
                          discovery of this unfortunate malaise on our
                          society, and subsequent outrage seem a little too
                          well-timed to be well-intentioned (or honest).
                       \_ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          HEY SHITBOX STOP WRITING OVER OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS
                \_ Kennedy/Nixon, 1960. Illinois. Texas.
                   "[T]he Chicago Tribune concluded that 'the election
                   of November 8 was characterized by such gross and
                   palpable fraud as to justify the conclusion that
                   [Nixon] was deprived of victory.'"
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A36425-2000Nov16?language=printer
                   \_ yes, yes, so what?  Kennedy was a better man so we got a
                      better President out of it.
2004/2/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:12125 Activity:kinda low
2/5     We Worship Jefferson, But We Have Become Hamilton's America
        Excellent historical perspectives throughout this thread.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1071513/posts?page=1,50
        \_ No shit Sherlock. We talked about this when I was in HS.
           How is this news now?
           \_ We did?  I don't think you and I went to the same high school.
              What'd you think of that hottie 23 year old number they got in
              to teach social studies?
              \_ Dude!  Totally!  She was HOT!  I'd totally do her!
              \_ I don't know what dumbfuck HS you came from but we
                 talked about Jefferson vs. Hamilton and how it relates
                 to differing stages of the country pretty early on. It's
                 one of the standard essays you write on the AP and it's
                 a common topic amongst historians.
                 \_ We didn't all go to your nice white elite HS.  That is the
                    kind of dumbfuck HS I went to.  My HS wasn't even
                    accredited so my grades didn't count.  I got in on my test
                    scores alone, not my nice white fluffed up inflated grades.
                    Any more questions?
2004/1/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:11947 Activity:moderate
1/26    Hm, I never heard about this thing. Guess I'm too young.
  http://www.awesome80s.com/Awesome80s/News/1980/February/3-Abscam_Revealed.asp
        \_ Being too young or knowing nothing about a topic or history has
           never stopped any motd poster from expressing extreme views before.
           I think it's a good topic.  You should go for it!
        \_ I thought it's illegal for law enforcement to bait targets?
           \_ No.  That's not the definition of entrapment.
2004/1/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:11667 Activity:very high
1/5     Hits the nail on the head regarding living in the Bay Area
        http://sfgate.com/columnists/nelson
        \_ Yup, just because someone is a liberal doesn't make him any
           smarter or a better person than the average joe. It just makes
           him more hypocritical. Hopefully they'll die out because they
           don't appear to be having a lot of kids.
           \_ Not all liberals are hypocritical.  And not everyone in the
              bay area is rude.  And us non-rude liberals get just as
              \_ The author never claims this. The 5th to the last paragraph
                 says essentially the same thing.
                 \_ I was addressing both the article and the above reply.
                    --scotsman
              frustrated about the rudeness as our couterparts.  Also I
              have never seen such behaviour towards my sisters (two kids
              apiece) or my friends who have been pregnant recently.  Perhaps
              this particular woman is rude herself, and gets it back in
              spades. --scotsman
           \_ It is really funny to watch conservatives accuse liberals of
              being hypocritical. See Rush Limbaugh, William Bennett, Strom
              Thurmond and many many others just in the last couple of months.
              Can you name one famous liberal of similar hypocrisy? Can you
              say "projection"? I knew you could.
              \_ Barbara Streisand, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore.
              \_ Barbara Streisand, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, ELF.
                 \_ I think part of ELF's hypocracy is not the organization but
                    its members.  These people commit vandalism and endanger
                    people they disagree with, but yet you know ELF members
                    were strongly protesting the war.
                    \_ I don't know that at all. Did ELF take a stand on
                       the war?
                       \_ I didn't say ELF had a stance.  I'm just saying I'd
                          bet you dollars-to-donuts that ELF members were
                          against the war.
                 \_ What do these people preach that they do not practice?
                    You do know the definition of hypocricy, right?
                    \_ Google the following:
                       "barbara streisand environment"
                       "michael moore fear-mongering"
           right to left.  c.f. "hate speech," "racism," "diversity"
                       \_ ad hominem attacks does not suddenly make that
                          person an hypocrite.
                          \_ no but criticising the gun lobby of using fear
                             tactics while using fear tactics himself to
                             advocate social welfare does
                             \_ You think they're fear tactics?  Did you even
                                watch the film?
                                \_ yes, I watched the film. And you do not
                                   think they're fear tactics? Manipulated
                                   much?
           who expects society to bend over backwards to accomidate her
                       "ted kennedy chappaquiddick"
           can't get over the shock of having race and class privilege.
                       "elf desctruction"
                        \_ See your problem is that you don't know what the
                           word hypocricy means. When did Ted Kennedy or
                           liberals in general advocate not driving drunk?
                           Did elf ever advocate non-violence? I am not
                           sure what your beef with Barbara Striesand and
                           the enviornment is, but you might have one there.
                           \_ Babs advocates enviornmentalism and conservation
                              but owns a huge house with air conditioning.
                              \_ Um, she also sued a scientist who was
                                 studying the effects of erosion on the
                                 California coast. Did anybody actually
                                 Google the terms above?
                                 \_ And there was that time she turned into a
                                    giant fire-breathing robot and flattened a
                                    hick mountain town in Colorado.
                           \_ Strom Thurmond never advocated white men not
                              having sex with black women either. ELF claims
                              to be for protecting the environment, but their
                              actions have done more harm to the environment
                              than good.
                              \_ He most certainly was against miscegenation:
                       http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/strom-thurmond
                                 And your opinion of ELF's actions is
                                 debatable. They think what they do helps
                                 the environment, and so do I.
                              \_ How have ELF's actions done more harm to the
                                 environment than good?  What, people have
                                 started hating trees because the ELF's been
                                 firebombing construction sites?
                                 \_ I agree that it's debatable. In the long
                                    term one can argue that they've increased
                                    awareness of their cause. But in the short
                                    term, the polution caused by the fires
                                    they set have done more harm then what
                                    they targetted. The sad thing is the
                                    author is right. Most people in the Bay
                                    Area are incapable of seeing more than
                                    one side of an issue.
                                    \_ Tell me the name of a place where people
                                       are not like that.
                                    \_ They delayed clear-cutting by months in
                                       some cases at a minimal cost in burned
                                       material.  This is clearly a plus for
                                       the environment. Of course, it's also
                                       a huge minus for environmentalists who
                                       want to be taken seriously, which I
                                       suspect was more your original point.
        \_ She didn't even mention by far the worst part about the
           Bay Area, and the one reason I'll never move back: housing.
           She's probably stuck in some idiotic mortgage on an overpriced
           home just like all the flame warriors here.
           \_ I'm guessing she didn't mention it because the essay was about
              society, not the economy.
              \_ She mostly just sounds like she has a bug up her ass.  I've
                 never seen anyone with the attitude about children that she
                 describes.  If she wants to bash stupid Bay Area lefties, how
                 about the Critical Mass yahoos or ACT UP SF (the offshoot
                 ACT UP group that spreads the HIV IS A LIE meme).  She's
                 right about the turn signal thing, but thats got nothing to
                 do with politics, for fuck's sake - if anything George
                 Deukmejian's cuts to drivers ed programs in the '80s have more
                 to do with that.
        \_ waah waah!  I'm oppressed!
        \_ "Jennifer Nelson, an Oakland writer, worked in policymaking
            positions in the Deukmejian and Wilson administrations."
           Hell, she's lucky she hasn't been lynched.
        \_ One more demonstration of how political language migrates from
           left to right.  c.f. "hate speech," "racism," "diversity"
           \- i think the author should have focused on "chez panisse
              liberalism" or on anti-children seniments. they are different
              phenomena and combining them sounds like random bitching
              rather than dissecting something coherent. --psb
        \_ Her problem is that she is a white person with three children
           who expects society to bend over backwards to accommodate her
           and her concerns. Here she is nothing special and she still
           can't get over the shock of not having race and class privilege.
        \_ The responses on this motd illustate her point perfectly.  -ax
           \_ Do you think people like her deserve special treatment?
2003/12/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:11541 Activity:moderate
12/19   Regarding the neocon movement, its impetus, its icons, and its
        critics.        http://csua.org/u/5bz
        \_ Eh, the "neocon" movement is nothing more than the Democrats (as
           opposed to liberals) playing partisan politics--labeling something
           other than their own belief with a name similar to "neonazi".
           \_ neocon is what they called themselves.  try again.
              \_ And where would I find an example of that please?
                 \_ http://csua.org/u/5c3
           \_ "neo" suggests renewal or revival, as in neo-romanticism,
              neo-classical, etc.  It applies to something already defunct,
              as in neo-nazi.  The neocons want to "diss" the (traditional)
              conservatives, whom they regard as soft and impotent even
              though they are very much alive (in the wilderness of power).
              \_ the neocons are for the neocons. they aren't right or left.
              conservatives, whom they regard as soft and impotent.
        \_ What is the csua login for salon?
           \_ login: watchThe
              password: damnCommercial
              \_ Rather than being sarcastic, you could have signed up an
                 actual account, and I would thank you on behalf of a grateful
                 motd.
                 \_ Subscriptions are $18 or $30/year.
                    \_ Ask what you can do for the motd, not the reverse.
                       \_ Getting a paid Salon subscription for the motd would
              password: damnCommercial
                 \_ Subscriptions are $18 or $30/year.
                          not be helping anyone.  Not even Salon.
2003/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:11179 Activity:nil
11/21   So WHEN will we get the official files that have been hidden away
        from public on the assassination of President Kennedy? Why can't they
        release that info after the assassination?
        \_ seriously, who cares anymore...it's been 40+ years.
        \_ The Truth Isn't Out There Fox. - Cancer Man
        \_ when all those people are dead.
2003/10/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:10760 Activity:nil
10/23   Brilliant!
        http://www.theonion.com/3941/top_story.html
        \_ Um, someone said "nice" here, and you deleted it.  Why?
        \_ Just to make things fair, I'll censor your "This is pure crap"
           comment.  Wasn't that fun?
           \_ not really.  I'm not the one who took out "nice".  You
              are all simple-minded troll bait.
              \_ agreed. -- guy who wrote (and deleted) "nice"
        \_ exactly what qualifies someone to be a politician?  WHat skills
           did Davis have that made him so effective.  Seems to me politics
                \_ he was treasurer?  do you even know who he is?
                   \_ what qualified him to be treasurer then?
                   \_ alot of good it did towards that pesky 38 billion
                      deficit.  Not to forget his stellar achievement
                      with the energy contracts.
           requires 1) common sense 2) vision 3) people skills 4) ethics.
           Regrettably most politicians (including Davis) lack this.
           \_ Nope.  It's 1) electability, 2) re-electability.  Anything else
              is bonus.  Davis got elected because he could raise money like
              a one-eyed hooker in a blind-man's brothel.
2003/10/15-16 [Science/Space, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:10643 Activity:moderate
10/15   The Chinese did NOT succeed at manned flight. Instead, they perfected
        Hollywood studio quality movies that showed realistic looking
        footage of a manned flight. It's like the Apollo program all over
        again. News at 11.
        \_ Cattle mutilations are up!
           \_ so's yer dad
        \_ And what about the USSR photo from their Luna lander series of
           American Apollo mission on the moon? What vested interest would
           a sworn enemy of the U.S. at the time have in helping keep the lie?
                \_ Without the competition, their space program funding
                   would be cut.  Why be in such a rush to go to the moon
                   if not trying to win the space race?
           Go back to your mom's basement and come up with a new one Mulder.
           \_ You have no skills at discerning trolls. You fail.
              \_ ie, troll success!
        \_ http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Space/2003/10/15/226775-ap.html
           Hahaha, conservatives LOSE again.
            \_ "After five years of virtual house arrest and secret
                negotiations between Washington and Beijing, Tsien left for
                his homeland in 1955."
           \_ Facts? Pshaw! Conservatives don't care about losing on the facts,
              they just buy victory anyway.
2003/10/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:10588 Activity:nil
10/10   Sweatshop Protests May Hurt, Not Help, Poor Workers
        http://csua.org/u/4om
        \_ woo woo, prostitution
        \_ We should never protest evil because otherwise some other evil
           might happen in it's place.  It's better if we just don't worry
           our pretty little heads over it and let Bad Things Happen To
           Other People because ya know, hey, some economists said so!
           \_ Having trouble with arguing against that part that points
              out that "no one is forcing the workers to the factories,"
              aren't you.  News flash: Industrial Revolution NOT bad!
2003/9/20-21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:10268 Activity:nil
9/20    These Are Historic Times - Is it to be Lincoln or Sisyphus?
        http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson091903.asp
2003/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:29538 Activity:high
9/14    Myth of Allende obscures reality
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982167/posts
        \_ Pinochet murdered thousands of people.  Get a life.
           \_ And how many did Communists kill? over a hundred
              million?  Were Chile like Cuba today you would be
              happy because a few thousand Communists lives
              saved?
              \_ I was in Chile in 1993-1994.  Most of the people there *loved*
                 Pinochet.  And Chile has had one of the most stable (if not
                 *the* most) economies in South America for the last few
                 decades.  --emarkp
2003/6/2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:28605 Activity:very high
6/1     PBS's Pontificator
        http://csua.org/u/32t
        \_ Ah, Bill Moyers... societal threat. Evil incarnate. A loose Liberal
           boogieman. Blah, blah, blah. Sheesh, try again. You bore me,
           conservative poster.
           \_ Are you serious?  Accuracy and disclore aren't important to you?
              Is this what's become of 'liberals'?
              \_ Please. When is the last time a casual liberal quoted Bill
                 Moyers to you? I find this motd-unworthy. BORRR-ring
                 \_ What does that have to do with anything?  If Moyers is a
                    raving loon with conflicts of interest, being aired on PBS,
                    he should be nailed to the wall by everyone.  Are you a NY
                    Times journalist?
                    \_ Are you as upset with Haig/Weinberger's World Business
                       Review?  Also gets funding through PBS, also touts
                       itself as journalism, also has major conflict of interest
                       issues. --scotsman
                       itself as journalism, also has major conflict of
                       interest issues. --scotsman
                       \_ Yes.
                       \_ I haven't heard of it, but if what you say is true,
                          then yes I'd be just as upset.  Do you have a link to
                          an article discussing it?  --emarkp
                    \_ Because it's OPINION, not journalism. It's like getting
                       mad at Limbaugh because conservatives give him money.
                       \_ They don't.  He has a contract to do his radio show
                          for $x.  If he stopped doing his show or if his
                          ratings dropped, he'd get kicked off the air.  Rush
                          is paid to bring in audience for advertisers.  If
                          he was a leftists and brought in the same audience
                          he'd get the same money from the same people.
                                \_ He is still carried on many small radio
                                   stations. The fact that 90% of the radio
                                   stations are owned by three media
                                   companies has more to do with the
                                   lack of distribution.
                          \_ Not really true. The Jim Hightower show was
                             hugely popular, but ABC/Disney cancelled it.
                             \_ Apparently not popular enough for someone
                                else to pick up for profit.  Funny how the
                                free market works.
                                \_ He is still carried on many small stations.
                                   The fact that 4 companies control 90%
                                   of the radio market has more to do with
                                   him not being able to be heard by most
                    \_ Compationate conservative that you are, you should feel
                       better that they can now go to your local church.
                                   Americans. Funny how the free market "works"
                                   \_ actually it is 5 controlling 40% but hey,
                                      why bring in facts?  if he was popular,
                                      the free market would sell his show.  he
                                      isn't so he gets banished to the outland.
                          \_ So, he doesn't do speeches for conservative
                             groups for money? Or give endorsements for money?
                             Or get paid for being part of a conservative
                             forum/think tank? Ooo. Never. Extra money? Ick.
                             \_ Not that I know of.  Not that I know of.  Not
                                that I know of.  I do know that his current
                                contract is for $500m.  That's 500 hundred
                                million dollars.  I don't know how many years
                                it covers but I don't think length matters for
                                $500m.  He doesn't need to do any of those
                                things or make "extra money".  He golfs.  If
                                you listened to his show, you'd know that.
                                \_ Sure it matters. You think it's a contract
                                   without behavior clauses or rating limits?
                                   If he's goes DUI and runs over a kid, that
                                   contract vaporized. If he turn demo, ditto.
                                   He's making money while he can do it.
                                   \_ He's probably making $50m a year. You
                                      seriously think he's going to waste his
                                      time on some lame-o Clintonesque speaking
                                      gig for $100k?  You're a) nuts and b)
                                      clearly not a listener of his show.
           \_ the point is Fed tax dollars go to NPR, PBS, and Moyers.
              \_ Less than 2% of NPR's operating budget comes from federal
                 funds.
                 \_ Good.  Then they can do without it.
              \_ Fed Tax dollars go into LOTS of things people disagree with.
                 Defense, ATF, Dept. of Education, etc. Should we ban Frontline
                 for showing things you disagree with?
                 \_ Fed tax dollars should not go into NPR anymore than they
                    should go to my local church.
                    \_ Yah.. wouldn't it be nice if there were a constitutional
           several hundred billion dollar deficit.  Helpless victims
           want a nanny state, from cradle to grave, that someone else pays for.
                -op
                       line between state and press?  Then they might actually
                       have an interest in exposing gubmint lies.
                       \_ I'm with you on that.
                    \_ Compassionate conservative that you are, you should feel
                       better that taxes can now go to your local church.
                       \_ I'm not.  I don't.  They should go to neither. Thanks
              \_ tax dollars should go to functions clearly
                 mandated by the Constitution, defense and ATF are enumerated.
                 Neither of these organizations demagogue.
                 \_ So there are nukes in Iraq? And we need those B-2s and
                    mini-nukes? And the Waco fiasco really wasn't part of a
                    failed publicity stunt? Ban the FBI, CIA, OSHA, EPA, and
                    DOE. Who cares about trying to evolve government? Let's
                    suck hard with the strict constitutionalists, re-enslave
                    the blacks and go back to an agrarian landowners society.
                    \_ Probably.  Maybe, you'd be sorry if we did need them
                       and didn't have them.  Evolve government?  There's a
                       process for that which wasn't followed.  Your last
                       comment is trollish nonsense.  You were doing well until
                       you lost it and started spewing and frothing at random.
                        \_ Hmm, Lincoln was the first Republican president and
                           South was solidly democrat until the past decade and
                           a half.
                           \_ It was solidly Democrat BECAUSE Lincoln was a
                              Republican.
                              \_ whatever the reason, the Democrats were and
                                 still are the party of southern white racists.
                       \_ It isn't nonsense. You're arguing against those
                          departments because it's not in the Constitution,
                          which is very strict intepretation. It's denies the
                          basis of a dynamic government and offers only one
                          that is set in a late 1700's world and mindset.
                          \_ nonsense = frothing about re-enslaving people.
                             you're being intentionally stupid.  when you
                             stop the rhetorical dancing in the wind, we'll
                             have something to talk about.
                             \_ I did, you missed it. Strict interpretation
                                vs. evolving government. Try harder.
                                \_ Now you're beyond intentionally stupid and
                                   just outright lying with the text right
                                   there to show it.  Amazing.  You win.  I'm
                                   too stunned at your chutzpah to go on.
                                   \_ You're right. I do win. HAHAHA! Watch
                                      my superiority dance, clueless one.
        \_ The mentality in this thread illusrates perfectly why we have a
           several hundred billion dollar deficit.  Helpless victims want a
           nanny state, from cradle to grave, that someone else pays for.
           Then have the audacity to display outrage when the government
           intrudes further into our lives - never making the connection how
           the government acquired the resources and ability to do so in the
           first place.  -op  [formatd]
           \_ No, I just didn't think the original post was really that
              interesting. If you want to find a liberal scapegoat, find one
              that people listen to and agree with to on a regular basis. And
              tear them apart. Who REALLY cares about Bill Moyers?
              \_ The problem with that is there isn't a liberal that people
                 listen to and agree with on a regular basis so we have to
                 make do bashing the extremists, the liars, the criminals and
                 the frauds.
                 \_ I thought the media was Liberal? What about them?
                    \_ As a class.  No individuals worth naming.  Just a large
                       shapeless blob of idiocy chanting the same mantra.  It
                       doesn't matter which one you listen to because they're
                       all the same.
                       \_ So point out where they lie, where they're having
                          conflicts of interest, etc and go from there.
                          Attacking Moyers isn't really worth the effort.
2003/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:28600 Activity:moderate
6/1     Great Myths of the Great Depression
        http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=4095
        \_ http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/Timeline.htm
           \_ thank you, both of you, for the interesting links.
           \_ Amusing that government employment is included with
              private sector.  They also conveniently leave out FDR
              stacking the entire Supreme Court.
2003/4/8 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:28028 Activity:high
4/7     Isn't it funny that someone is perfectly ok with being denied entrance
        to a college in favor of people with lower scores, so long as that
        person with lower scores was white?
        http://csua.org/u/c9e (washington post column, free registration, blah
        blah)
        \_ As much as I hate to take the same of the issue as the knee-jerk
           pseduoconservative facists, this author missed the point.  No one
           got points for being white.  People *did* get points for being
           part of a recognized minority group.  The other bonuses had to
           do with things like participation in athletics, student government
           and social service organizations.  None of these, which the single
           exception of the child-of-alumni credit, has a disctinct racial
           correlation slanted towards white people.  Assuming that the
           comfort or discomfort of this applicant had to do with the race
           of the benefactors is both unfair and unwarranted by anything I
           have heard from her.         -liberal lawyer
                \_ Just curious, are you saying motd conservatives are really
                   faux conservatives, faux fascists, or both?  And if so, how
                   can we be real conservatives, fascists, or both in your
                   liberal lawyer view?  --wannabe pseudoconservative fascist
                \_ I imagine you will get far with this insightful pithy legal
                   rhetoric.  Please post your name / affiliation so others
                   might avoid your services.
        \_ White?  I thought it's usually black or Hispanic.
           \_ No, you fail to understand.  See, she didn't sue when she found
              out that she had lost out to a person with lower scores.  That
              didn't bother her when she thought it was due to some other sort
              of desire the college had (for people with diverse socioeconomic
           he did not mention any of the other criterion for getting "points".
              backgrounds, athletes, etc.).  No, she only sued when she found
              out that she had lost out to people who were black.
           \_ Perhaps she was comfortable with a policy that gave extra
              points to applicants' accomplishments and talents
              as opposed to their ancestry.
              \_ Yeah, as long as they were white!
        \_ Current case law:  You can't use quotas, but you can use race as
           a "factor".  20 points for being black out of 150 points is a
           "factor" but not a quota, so it's legal.
             \_ I love people who can't distinguish between a moral discussion
                and a legal one.  (this includes almost all lawyers). Do you
                plan on becoming a lawyer.  'Cause you already have the mind-set.
                \_ obcookie
        \_ No, it's not funny, or even interesting, at all.  I would wager that
           the majority of people who are against race-based affirmative action
           are in favor of socio-economic affirmative action (at the very least
           as a "reasonable compromise").  Socio-economic AA is not racist,
           whereas race-based AA, ipso facto, is.  What *Is* "funny" is that
           he did not mention any of the other criteria for getting "points".
           I can only assume that this is because if he had people would have
           noticed a difference between judging based on those items and judging
           based on race.  As the individual bringing suit may have as well.
           \_ I disagree with your "ipso-facto."  This is opinion, rather than
              \_ I'm not the original author, but I'll defend the use of
                 the term "ipso-facto".  The immediate clause indicates that
                 race based AA is a racist practice.  This is true, whether
                 you find is morally repugnant or morally just.  Perhaps it
                 the difference is that the latter term has a negative
                 connotation whereas the former may not for some.  Be
                 wary when reframing a statement changes your opinion of it.
                 This typically means you are holding conflicting beliefs
                 and could use a little introspection.
                 \_ Sigh... you're bringing harsh facts into this.  Please,
                    stop now before someone learns something and becomes a
                    better person!  Think of the children!
              fact.  Why is it ok for a school to place importance on elements
              of diversity such a culture, heritage, and socio-economic
              background, but not on ethnicity?  Ethnicity in America is the
              very essence of culture.  To say that race "doesn't
              matter" and "has no bearing" when it clearly DOES have a bearing
              is willfully ignorant of life in America.  But that's just my
              opinion.  By the way, the motd conservatives are way too easy
              to troll.
              \_ The problem is you can't just become black to earn these
                 bonus points.  There are lots of poor people irrespective
                 of what color they are, so it's okay to earn points because
                 you're poor.
                 \_ Do it for the children!  Please stop now!
              \_ Got your point smashed to the sharpness of a dull crayon so
                 you decide to claim you were just trolling all along? Uh huh.
                 Like anyone believes that.  Back to rhetoric 1a for you!
2003/4/7 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:28018 Activity:high
4/7     Getting on Gandhi's case!  Next thing you know, you guys will
        be blasting Martin Luther King Jr.  Why don't we slag off FDR,
        JFK, Eisenhower, and Lincoln while we're at it?  Damn, I mean,
        HAS their been a leader that wasn't completely full of shit
        and out to lunch? Its no wonder that we don't have great
        leaders anymore - they would never survive the cynicism of
        today.
        \_ What's wrong with questioning leaders of any sort?  And
           while we're at it, Lincoln was a Republican who used
           slavery as an excuse to attack his southern neighbors.
           Actually mu favorite is JFK.  I'd like to know what JFK did
           that made him such a great leader.  He brought us to the
           edge of nuclear hell and back?  He banged a few hot chicks?
           Gave some good speeches?  What?
        \_ MLK was naive as a leader and a plagiarist.  FDR was an
           autocrat. JFK had mafia connections and took a lot of rash,
           dangerous decisions.  Ike was militarily a waffler.  Hitler
           liked dogs and children.  Is this a new thing, not being
           allowed to criticize leadership icons?  Or do you just
           love adhering to your grammar-school-inculated picture of a
           black-and-white-world?  -John
           \_ Hitler was also vegetarian and did not drink or smoke.
              He was also not a philanderer.
        \_ FDR was the worst President ever - he is primarily
           responsible for the destruction of this republic.  What
           were JFK's accomplishments? Assisinating Diem and setting
           the stage for an inept civilian run war, the disaster in
           the Bay of Pigs, etc. Yes, MLK was a inveterate plagiarist
           and a hardcore Marxist, but you do have to give him credit
           for standing up against that which was morally
           reprehensible, when few others would.
        \_ The public memory isn't quite the same as actual history of MLK:
        \_ The public memory isn't quite the same as actual history of
           MLK:
        link:www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/editorial/5571486.htm
        \_ Okay, cool, so you guys can slag off just about anyone!  So
           who's Great?  Oh wait, lemme guess...Reagan, Herbert
           \_ The above were all very good comments.  You can't duck all
              those responses with a lame "you're all sheep" and expect
              anyone to take you seriously or your point to look like
              anything more than silly rantings.  Try to respond to some
              of them and demonstrate their wrongness and yo momma will
              be proud of you.  Until then, no more cookies for you, troll.
           Hoover, Ted Nugent, the Tooth Fairy, and yo momma.  By the
           way, thanks for being sheep and making my point for me.
           \_ The above were all very good comments.  You can't duck
              all those responses with a lame "you're all sheep" and
              expect anyone to take you seriously or your point to
              look like anything more than silly rantings.  Try to
              respond to some of them and demonstrate their wrongness
              and yo momma will be proud of you.  Until then, no more
              cookies for you, troll.
           \_ All human beings are in some way flawed and imperfect.
2003/3/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:27703 Activity:high
3/14    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25844-2003Mar14.html
        It's true.  Why can't he say it without them coming down on him and
        ruining his career?  What are they afraid of?
        \_ Compare and contrast to how Lott was treated.  Moran is a Dem.
           \_ Lott lost his position of leadership but kept his seat.  Now
              Moran has lost his position of leadership but kept his seat.
              He got lambasted in the "What the hell were they thinking"
              section on "Washington Week" on PBS yesterday, just like Lott.
              What's the contrast, aside from Lott having a cooler position
              to lose?
              \_ The difference is what Lott said was vicious and evil.  What
                 Moran said is simply the truth they're trying to suppress.
                 \_ Lott was simply giving accolades to Strom Thurmond.  His
                    comment was completely neutral - but the race baiters,
                    apparently like yourself, took it an ran for political
                    gain.  Nevertheless, I was glad to see him go because
                    he was completely ineffectual.
                    he was completely ineffectual.  Let's not forget the
                    South was solidly democrat until the past two decades.
                    Thurmond was a democrat when he ran for President.
                    \_ Either way, the parties should throw out people like
                    Lott. These racist bigots were first hiding out in the
                    Democratic party, now the Republican party. It's time
                    that neither party should support idiots like this.
        \_ Yeah, I mean look at all the shit that Byrd gets away with.
        \_ Lott is now currently chair on a pretty fucking scary committee
           having to do with security and homeland defense policies.  Can
           we say Jim Crow II?  Well i guess southern white guys must be
           happy now.
           \_ Yeah, this will happen. Just as likely as time travel. Can we
              look FORWARD and not backwards without making stupid comparisons?
           \_ Aren't they happy after they fingerbang their sister?
              \_ But now they're more righteous when they do it.
        \_ Didn't a Republican Senator say this very same thing last week?
           \_ no.
           \_ most likely, but he didn't happen to be on camera at the time.
2003/1/14 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:27085 Activity:nil
1/13    How I Joined Teach for America -- and Got Sued for $20 Million
        http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5528
        \_ Obviously the answer is to give more money to the school system.
           That'll fix everything.
2002/12/19 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:26857 Activity:nil
12/19   I know the story about Trent Lott, but what about Tom Daschle?
        someone live outside of US and still tryingto keep up
        \_ He was very quick to downplay Lott's remarks, which IMO was
           the wrong thing to do.  Since Thurmond and Helms retired, Lott
           was the last of the Dixiecrats left.  On top of that, he's the
              \- hello, you may wish to google for "Robert Byrd Klan" --psb
                 \_ touche.
           senate majority leader.  What he said was inexcusable.  The
           bigotry expressed by it (which all the analysts say this is
           not about) is also inexcusable.  TD should have taken him to
           task on this.  When Lott's own party uses stronger words with
                \- this is the product of the idiotic "comity" in the senate
                   and on many executive boards ... because of social and
                   friendly ties, people get away with murder ... why
                   actually enforce your fiduciary duty when it might get
                   you dropped from some currupt bastards xmas card list ...
                   besides, he helped your idiot progeny get into harvard
                   law school. people should have been spitting on people
                   like Jesse Helms and made him a pariah. same for Ted
                   Kennedy. ollie north for senate. --psb
           Lott than Daschle does, he shows himself as offstep. --scotsman
           \_ Note: Lott is the top Republican in Senate while Daschle is
              the top Democrat. Lots of talk of Daschle being ineffective.
           \_ Thanks scotsman. It really helped.  Gosh, I like TD too...
              I would of chose him as our president..
              \_  would _have_ chosen him....
2002/9/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:26018 Activity:insanely high
9/26    Watergate quality mess for the Dems.
        http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/1686860/detail.html
        [Why do you keep deleting this newsworthy link?] :
        "The story has received national media attention. Articles have
        appeared on political Web sites for CBS, CNN, ABC, NBC, the Washington
        Post and others."
        And the followup link as they narrow down who is going to jail:
        http://miva.dmregister.com/miva/cgi-bin/miva?news/live/display.mv+direction=showstory&showrec=8
        \_ hmm, in one case a disgruntled worker leaks a tape he made of
           a strategy meeting for a senate seat, in another the president
           has the cia break and enter, bug, and photograph key documents
           of the opposing candidate.  Not to mention a highly detailed cover
           up that includes lieing to congress.  Yah I can see why you
           think they on the same level.
2002/6/7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:25030 Activity:high
6/7     http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20020607/od_nm/fake_dc_1
        "BEIJING (Reuters) - Beijing's most popular newspaper has unwittingly
        republished a bogus story about U.S. Congress threats to skip town for
        Memphis or Charlotte unless Washington builds them a new Capitol
        building with a retractable dome."
        \_ Go go yellow journalism!
           \_ racist.
              \_ moron (or troll).
                 \_ racist.
2001/12/16 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23265 Activity:high 83%like:23257
12/15   http://www.washtimes.com/national/20011215-68264047.htm
        MOTD POLL:  Bin Laden will:
        Be found dead from combat injuries not old age (duh!):   .
        Be captured alive:
        Escape:              .
        Surrender:
        Beat back the evil western hordes in the name of Allah: .
        \_ The Washington Times is one of the few newspapers worth reading.
           \_ Run by a bunch of Moonies, loved by paranoid Right Wingers. Great.
              You gotta love how the Republicans love to accuse others
              You gotta admire how the Republicans prefer to accuse others
              of what they do the most. Taking money from Asian religious
              leaders? How about the Moonie -> RNC connection, which
              has been going on for years. Oh, that right, it is only
              treason if a Democrat does it.
2001/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:22533 Activity:high
9/19    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/nyregion/19NYC.html?searchpv=nytToday
        \_ On flag waving and how why an ex-60s war protestor, Prof. Todd
           Gitlin, is now waving the American flag. Ends with cogent quote from
           Orwell on the difference between patriotism and nationalism.
        \_ a great article on Salon about waving flag. think about what it
           means to you before you do it.

           http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/09/18/flag/index.html

           -ali.
           \_ "ali" and "modesty" don't belong on the same page.
           \_ "a great article" and "Salon" don't belong on the same page.
           Gitlin, is now waving the American flag. Ends with good quote from
           Orwell on the difference be tween patriotism and nationalism.
2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:22508 Activity:high
9/18    http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/09/18/flag/index.html
        I tend to agree with the sentiment in this article. I've always
        been annoyed that when I express my own patriotism, people
        automatically lump me in with the "right wing gun nuts". Why isn't
        there a middle ground? Why can't someone not want to "nuke all
        the brown people" and not be a traitor at the same time?
        \_ <troll>I don't know about you, but I think we should nuke
           all the yellow people, and I consider myself a patriot!</troll>
        \_ Why, oh why, can't someone be a good wholesome "right wing gun
           nut" without being accused of wanting to "nuke all the brown
           people"?
2001/9/13 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:22430 Activity:very high
9/13    All we hear is that the FBI is doing this, the FBI is doing that.  Is
        the CIA too embarrassed to come out and is hiding under its pillow?
        \_ The CIA cannot be expected to know everything about every plot. This
           isn't "1984". I think the real culprit is US airport security.
           \_ But it seems like the CIA have missed a lot of big incidents in
              recent years: The fall of Berlin Wall, the fall of USSR, the
              bombing of US Embessies in Africa, the attack of USS Cole, and
              Tuesday's attack, to name a few.
        \_ The CIA is too busy to hold press conferences.
        \_ The CIA has been held back from aggressively defending this nation
           and its interests by the namby pamby love peace dope crowd. Its
           time we let them do *WHATEVER* is required to defend america and
           her people.
        \_ The CIA has been held back from aggressively defending this nation
           and its interests by the namby pamby love peace dope crowd (it all
           started with JFK and the Bay of Pigs). Its time we let them do
           *WHATEVER* is required to defend america and her people.
           \_ The CIA and NSA budget are at least 100 times as large
              as they were duing the Kennedy era. That does not qualify
              as being "held back." How much support will we insist
              on giving these fools before we realize the entire
              system should be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch?
        \_ Executive Order 12333 will be lifted very soon i predict
           But CIA Director George Tenet will lose his job over this.
           \_ What's 12333 about?
              \_ Take a look at:
                 http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/eo12333.html
           \_ do you maybe mean specifically section 2.11 of 12333?
              \_ Most likely sections 2.4-6, 8, 9, 11 and 12 will
                 change.
2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:36284 Activity:nil
9/12    What movie is that with Denzel Washington where there was terrorism
        in America so they had to put Arab Americans in "concentration camps"?
        \_ The Siege. This is so similar its eerie.
           \_ I doubt there will be concentration camps.  However, anti
              Arab American sentiment will be there.
              \_ I agree. Even Hilter style concentration camps are too
                 decent for these people.
                 \_ uh... WTF is that supposed to mean?
              \_ Hilter style concentration camps are too decent for these people.
                 \_ maybe they should put YOU in a "hilter style" camp.
2001/9/11-12 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:22394 Activity:nil
9/11    "We heard earlier that Barbara Olson, a frequent commentator here, was
        on the flight that was going to Washington -- or has been hijacked to
        Washington. She called her husband and said that the hijacking was
        under way.

        She said that from what she could tell, the hijackers -- and she
        didn't indicate how many except that there was more than one -- were
        armed with just knives and cardboard cutters, that they herded all the
        people on board this flight to the back of the plane, including the
        pilot, and she asked her husband, the Solicitor General Ted Olson, who
        many of you will recall argued the post-election case before the
        Supreme Court, said to her husband, "what do I do?" And shortly after
        that, that plane, with Mrs. Olson and many more, crashed at the
        Pentagon."
        (if you don't have a tv, cnn has a "transcripts" section with stuff)
         <DEAD>www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/bn.html<DEAD>
2001/7/25 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:21945 Activity:nil
7/25    Democrats get tough on M$:
        http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20620.html
2001/5/11 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:21242 Activity:nil
5/10    do any of you know where to find out which european countries
        require to you have a visa to visit?  thanks for your help.
        \_ the motd usually works for me
        \_ first hit on google under "visa requirements":
           http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreqs.html
           and the general answer for most of Europe excluding some of
           the former Soviet republics is "none". -- been there last summer
2001/1/11 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:20298 Activity:nil
1/11    Teachers in Nebraska are not getting paid enough under the new
        state budget.  Forward the following information to everyone you
        know:
        http://update.journalstar.com/stories/1.
        [yes, this is a Lincoln Journal Star repost; urgency justifies it,
        as far as I'm concerned]  -tom
2000/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19889 Activity:high
11/21  David Broder thinks that this is the sadest thanksgiving since
       Kennedy died. Why to people think that Kennedy dying was a bad
       thing? (I mean aside from the fact that LBJ and his BS came
       about). I've never understood this adulation for Kennedy. He
       was an awful president and an even worse man.
        \_ I've heard he was an adulterous speed addict.  --PeterM
        \_ People are stupid.  The press helped create this "Camelot" image
           for him.  Why is the other Kennedy still in office instead of in
           jail?
2000/11/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19748 Activity:high
11/12    What is the purpose of the program called mor in /csua/bin?
         (I'd RTFM, but there is no manpage) ----ranga
soda 11/12 22:34 ~> more /csua/bin/mor
#!/bin/sh

# from http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp
# and some other sites

/usr/local/bin/wall y > /dev/null 2>&1
/usr/games/fortune /csua/lib/olestra/gwbush-quotes-10-08-2000.txt | /usr/local/b
in/wall
        \_ Why don't you just run it and see dummy?
\_ This may be the program, but the purpose is clearly to be
   an ass, and catch typos.
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19717 Activity:nil
11/10   Al Gore inventing internet quote:
        http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,18390,00.html
        I hope Wired News is a good enough source for you.
        Did getting a real URL from a reasonably reliable web news source
        bother you so much you had to censor and purge it?  Restored.
        \_ wired is a terrible news source.  If you read about something
           in wired that you are personally involved in, you will realize
           just how lousy they are.  for the whole story on the Gore
           quote and how various people blew it out of proportion, look up
           the article in Brill's Content.  I dont have a URL or date,
           but i'm sure you can find it in the library(and there might
           be a URL.)
           \_ Hey, I provided a source to the miffed person who wanted a URL
              "even from a geocities site".  Tough shit.  "I don't have a URL
              or date but I know I'm right and you're wrong and your source
              sucks".  Give it up.
              \_ OK, i found it.  It is the March 2000 issiue, written
                 by MIke Pride, in the OUT HERE column. The BRILLSCONTENT
                 site doesnt have the article, but im sure ucb library does.
                 i think al gore is a total jackass, but he deserves
                 honest press coverage just like anyone else.
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19681 Activity:very high
11/8    Business-as-usual vote fraud in Florida:
        http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elocal/digdocs/072105.htm
        This poor woman isn't even dead and got her vote stolen.
        \_ How come our election sounds more and more like fraud-filled
           elections in some third-world countries?
           \_ Because the Dems get caught more often now and the internet
              allows wider reporting.  See Dornan vs Sanchez.
              \_ You mean Republicans, right?
                 \_ No.  Classic Chicago Mayor Daley.  Go pick up a history
                    book instead of a Leftist pamphlet off the ground on
                    Sproul.  Re: Sanchez, a white chick who changed her pasty
                    white name to Sanchez to run for office, had 2000+
                    non-citizens (aka illegal aliens) voting for her.  Enough
                    to steal the election and subvert the law.  Don't be a
                    stupid propoganda spewing thoughtless clown.  Go read a
                    god damned book or just pay attention to what's been going
                    on around you.  Damn, even Nixon let it go in 1960 rather
                    than torture the country after he was robbed.  Gore can't
                    have the decency Nixon had??
                    \_ yeah, and we know that nobody who ever wrote a book
                       had an agenda.  i like books too, but your statement
                       is absurd at best.
                    \_ Oh yeah, The Republicans are all boy scouts and honest
                       and brave and trustworthy and the The Democrats are all
                       lying cheating scumbags. Thanks for setting me straight.
                        \_ You're ducking again.  I never said that.  Don't put
                           words in my mouth or on my keyboard.  Obviously, you
                           have nothing to say but spew and personal attack and
                           no URLs or anything to back up any of your positions.
                           The truth is that you really don't have a real
                           position on anything.  Just mere _feelings_ which is
                           nice and warm and fuzzy and all that and I'm glad
                           you've such a strong faith in your unfounded beliefs
                           but some of us require more than your feelings to be
                           convinced.  --Nader'04!
                    \_ Nixon was cheated by Joe Kennedy and he let it go. Gore
                       lost (after fighting the good fight) and he can't let it
                       go because he is much less of a man than Nixon. (Yes,
                       I'm assuming that Bush will win FL, because if he
                       doesn't a thousand years of darkness started
                       yesterday).
                       \_ "Thousand years of darkness"??? Where are you getting
                           this crap, Revelations?
                           \_ Uhm, duh.  It's a quote.  Grow up.
                       \_ Gore is less of a man than Nixon?  Are we talking
                          about the same Richard Milhouse Nixon who claimed
                          that he would achieve "Peace with honor" in Vietnam?
                          The Richard Nixon who resigned in disgrace?  And
                          it won't be one thousand years, at most it will be
                          40 because that's about how long the Supreme Court
                          judges the next President appoints will be around.
                          That said, how you could possibly believe the
                          judges Bush would appoint would do anything other
                          than try to revert the country to the '50s (i.e.
                          the 1850s) is beyond me.  I guess that Bush
                          supporters share his deep intellect.
                          P.S. If you dig slavery and isolationism, why aren't
                          you a Pat Buchanan supporter?
                          \_ I'm a Nader supporter.  Now then, back to the
                             issue at hand which you clearly want to avoid.
                             If Gore had any decency he'd accept the final
                             tally of the recount and not drag this through
                             endless court proceeding.  End of story.  You're
                             so typically 'Gore'.  You represent everything I
                             hate about politicians like Gore and why I voted
                             for the better man.
                             \_ Actually, I don't support any of the
                                candidates.  What is this better man, decency
                                bullshit anyway?  Dude, if Nixon conceeding
                                the vote makes him such a decent and good
                                man, explain why he later turned into such
                                a fuckhead!  You're so typically 'Nader'.
                                You represent everything I hate about Green
                                party members and why I abstain from voting
                                because all the candidates suck.
                                \_ Figure it out yourself.  Read Nixon's own
                                   words.  You'd *never* find a Gore thinking
                                   stuff like this:
                                http://www.suntimes.com/output/neal/neal09.html
                                   As a Gore slave, this is about something you
                                   wouldn't understand: the best thing for the
                                   country.  Something more important than
                                   Gore's ego.  --Nader'04
                        \_ It's commonly thought Nixon didn't challenge the
                           Chicago results because he didn't want an
                           investigation to turn up Republican cheating
                           downstate.
                           \_ Commonly thought?  By whom?  URL please.  I
                              provided one with full quotes.  Let's see a URL
                              with more than "sources say".
                              \_ You'd rather believe "Nixon says" than
                                 "Sources say"?  I eschew your political
                                 naivete.  --!above poster
2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19680 Activity:nil
11/8    Was President Lincoln a Democrat or Republican?
        \_ President Lincoln founded the Republican party.
                             \_ This is technically incorrect.
                                Lincoln was the first republican
                                presidential candidate, but the
                                party was founded by someone else.
                                \_ That's right.  See
                                   http://www.rnc.org/2000/gophistory
           \_ Why did all the southern states vote Republican when
              Lincoln trashed them up so badly?
              \_The Southern States have traditionally always voted
              Democratic until recently. The Southern Democratic states
              have always been the traditional bastion of Democratic
              conservatism, and it's also traditionally been the place
              of getting voting blocks. However, the new Democratic party
              has become, in essence, too liberal. The result is the slow
              and eventual decay of the Democratic party to be replaced
              by the Republican party. In fact, even though they were until
              recentely Democratic, they were at heart conservative socially.
              The South has just recentely shown its true colors.
              \_ The South switched after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act
                 of 1965. White Southerners abandoned the Democratic Party
                 in droves after that, just as LBJ anticipated they would.
              \_ The south and the north have really changed
                 from the civil war days. Back then northerners
                 cared about liberty and freedom. Now they
                 just want to turn America into a big welfare
                 state like europe.
        \_ Back then, Republican party was the more liberal party.
           \_ Back then, the concept of "liberal" and "conservative" are
           quite different from modern concepts. You have to remember that
           in those days America was mainly agrarian. The Republican party
           was the party of Industry and Commerce, while the Democratic party
           was for the agrarian farmer (both big and small). In a sense, the
           two parties have merely evolved with the times. You can see why
           Republicans supported abolishing slavery while the Democratic party
           for the most part didn't. Agrarian economies require large forces
           of manual labor, and the system in place at the time was slavery.
           By abolishing slavery the south was afraid it would destory their
           socio-economic system (which actualleally didn't).
           \_ That's why the Southern economies are booming and vibrant,
              especially when compared to their wealth then.
              \_ Texas and Florida have strong economies. Most of the other
                 states don't have enough people to need a industrial economy.
2000/10/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:19381 Activity:very high
9/30    Perhaps the liberals in the viewing audience can explain something
        to me. Why is it that todays liberals (esp. democrats) have forsaken
        the princples of the founding members of thier party? Consider the
        following quote from Thomas Jefferson (a democrat for those who have
        weak memories):

        ... a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from
        injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate
        their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take
        from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of
        good government ...

        All we hear from democrats these days is that we need more government
        with more spending and more regulation and more taxes and more control
        over the lives of individual.
        \_ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
        \_ I'll ignore the fact that this is an obvious troll, but, perhaps
           you missed the fact that the parties did a role-reversal.
           Remember, Lincoln was a Republican.  The Republican party today
           looks suspiciously like a special interest group for aging white
           folks.
           \_ There are many republicans who still believe in the ideals that
              Lincoln and Reagan set for our party. Not all of us agree with
              loud mouth show-offs like Limbaugh and Gingrich. I believe
              that the true spokesmen for the Republican party are men like
              George Will, Tom Campbell and Thomas Soddel.
        \_ Ja, die Republikaner sagen "LEBEN UND LEBEN LASSEN"
        \_ Yeah, Jefferson also enslaved men and women. go figure.
        \_ Jefferson founded the first Republican party in America.
           The first three Republican presidents were all wealthy,
           aristocratic Southern planters--Jefferson, Madison and Monroe
           -- rich and privileged folks, much like today's Republicans.
           Later, the Republican party split into the (1) Whig Party
           (pro-expansionists/imperialists) and (2) Democratic-Republican
           party (composed of diverse elements that emphasized local
           and humanitarian concerns, states' rights, agrarian interests,
           and democratic procedures). In keeping with the egalitarian spirit
           of the times, that faction adopted the name Democratic Party.
           In the mid 1800s, the Whigs eventually split up by joining
           Democrats(pro-slavery) and Northern Republicans(anti-slavery).
           This new Republican Party (which is as we know them) had a
           presidential candidate called Abraham Lincoln who said:
               "The legitimate object of government is to do for a
                community of people whatever they need to have done,
                but cannot do at all, or cannot do so well, for
                themselves, in their separate and individual capacities."
           Lincoln won the presidency without winning a single southern state.
           Of course, later, in the 1960s, lots of southerners joined the
           Republican Party because they feared the integrationist and
           pro-civil-rights Democratic Party. So they really are the same.
           Plus, FDR was a Democrat and he saved the country from
           ruin during the Great Depression by using the power of
           the government to assist down-and-out people and provide
           regulation and stability so that economic prosperity
           could flourish.
           \_ FDR introduced social programs (i.e. the institution of
              robbing the successful in favor of the mediocre and unsuccessful).
              The insane pyramid scheme of Social Security which will plague
              this country for many more years is FDR's legacy.  The war
              brought us out of the Great Depression, not FDR.  Did you know,
              btw, that FDR once remarked that all germans should be castrated
              (after the war)?  He was a big fan of civilian bombings also,
              and he believed it was a crucial component of winning the war.
              \_ Uh... FDR died before the end of WWII.
                 \_ And this is relevant to his views or his personality ...
                    how?  Hitler technically died before the end of WWII also.
                    \_ Oh yeah, FDR is just like Hitler, huh?
              \_ Contributing to two world wars does not make them favorites.
                 On his way to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill
                 in Quebec, FDR told reporters on August 26, 1944: "We have
                 got to be tough with Germany and I mean the German people
                 not just the Nazis.  We either have to castrate the German
                 people or you have got to treat them in such a manner [so
                 that] they can't go on reproducing people who want to
                 continue the way they have in the past."
1999/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:16452 Activity:very high
9/2     Is the US Marshals considered "police"?  Why are there so many
        different kinds of national "polices": FBI, US Marshals, DEA,
        ATF, etc.?  Don't they overlap?  Why can't we just have one police
        department like some other countries?  Thx. -- New to this country
 _____                _  ______ _
|  ___| __ ___  ___  | |/ / ___| |__   __ _ _ __   __ _
| |_ | '__/ _ \/ _ \ | ' / |   | '_ \ / _` | '_ \ / _` |
|  _|| | |  __/  __/ | . \ |___| | | | (_| | | | | (_| |
|_|  |_|  \___|\___| |_|\_\____|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|\__, |
                                                  |___/
        \_ Turn back on ~lwall/bin/mail.pl for all to use.
           \_ Get a life.  or a clue..
        \_ Each of the various orgs you named and others have their own area
           of enforcement they specialize in.  The DEA does drugs.  The FBI
           does general enforcement within our borders and also is the counter
           to large criminal orgs such as the mafia.  The ATF burns religious
           nuts and I don't know what the US Marshals do.  Each of these orgs
           often works closely with the others.  For example, the FBI helped
           the ATF burn the wackos at Waco.  The DEA imports drugs so the FBI
           and Coast Guard have something to do.  The CIA manufactures drugs
           in other countries to keep prices down (cheap foreign labor).  Any
           other questions?
           \_ U.S. Property recovery and escaped convicts are the
              responsiblity of hte Marshals. there is actually very little
              overlapping, in my opinion. -jlee
              \_ So an escaped convict can't be captured by FBI or city police
                 because only the US Marshals have the legal power to do so?
              \_ So an escaped convict can't be captured by FBI because only
                 the US Marshals have the legal power to do so?  Or if I'm
                 making a bomb at home, the city police can't arrest me because
                 only the ATF has the power to do so?
                 \_ No they can. But only one org has the main jurisdiction.
           \_ Jeez.. you make it sound like "Mission Earth"
           \_ What does the Bureau of "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" have to
              do with religious nuts?  And why is the US Secret Service, an
                \_ The ATF was the org primarily responible for the Waco Texas
                   seige until the FBI showed up and burned them to death.
              agency for protecting the president, under the Dept. of
              Treasury?  Isn't the Dept. of Treasury only about money and
              economics?  Confused.
              \_ you know that the secret service was originally created
                 to combat rampant currency counterfeiting, right?
              \_ BATF went after the Branch Davidians on weapons possession
                 violations (they had a M2 Medus for example - .50BMG full
                 auto). Secret Service started under Abraham Lincoln as an
                 anti-counterfeiting unit.  -jlee
           \_ CIA isn't a law enforcement agency technically speaking, is it?
              \_ CIA 's activities can not concern "U.S. persons" by law.
        \_ Politics and grabbing as much budget as possible.
1999/8/9-10 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:16278 Activity:very high
8/9     (New to US history.)  Was Pres. JFK a Democrat or a Republican?  Thx.
        \_ Democrat. Republicans bad.
           \_ Democrats bad. Republicans bad.
              \_ Jesse Ventura rewls, DUDE!
                \_ No.  It's just that our one party system sucks.  Just bc
                   JV isn't a member of the one party, doesn't mean by default
                   that he's good, but yes I do like the very few things I've
                   heard from him so far.
                   \_ One party to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
                        \_ BONDAGE PARTY!  RULE!
              \_ Yes, Dick is somehow connected to Richard Nixon...
        \_ Democrat - ran against Dick Nixon.  (All Kennedys have always been
           Democrats - it's a family tradition.)
           \_ Does that mean that Jimmy Hoffa was Republican?  The two hated
                   ran for Govermnor and lost to Jery Brown's dad.  After
              each other.
                \_ "hated" != "ran against in a partisan general election"
                        \_ I thought Nixon was a Congressman when he did
                           the McCarthy witchhunts.  I'm glad you saw
                           Oliver Stone's _Nixon_ movie, though -- your
                           synopsis runs just like in the movie, complete
                           with quotes.
                   Later, Richard ran for President and won, but then
                \_ Hoffa was a mobster criminal.  His politics don't have
                   anything to do with it and good thing they buried his
                   wretched corpse (or all the bits of it) where it could
                   never be found.
                        \_ New Jersey Meadowlands.  Under the end zone.
           \_ The Trickster rules!
           \_ Is Dick Nixon related to Richard Nixon then?  Thx.
                \_ Go see the movie "Dick" and find out.  It's all completely
                        true of course.
                \_ Dick Nixon was a Senator who ran the Communist witchhunts
                   with Joe McCarthy, was VP under Eisenhower and then ran
                   against JFK for Pres and lost.  He then came back to CA,
                   ran for Governor and lost to Jerry Brown's dad.  After
                   losing he declared "They're not going to have Dick Nixon
                   to kick around any more" and retired from politics.
                   Later, his son Richard ran for President and won, but then
                   Later, Richard ran for President and won, but then
                        \_ It was such a beautiful story, a man with so much
                           power giving it up to marry the woman he loved but
                           his country despised.  It's hard to imagine in
                           these days where having your wife suffer a "fatal
                           accident" and then marrying a divorcee is no longer
                           an unforgivable sin, but is even being done by the
                           Prince of Whales.
                           \_ What's wrong with marrying a divorcee?
                                \_ Divorce is very anti-Catholic.
                                   \_ This isn't a Catholic country.
                                        \_ And we've never had a king who was
                                           forced to abdicate so he could
                                           marry an american divorcee either.
                                           Your point?  (Not that England is a
                                           Catholic country.)
                   ended up resigning 25 years ago today.
1999/7/20 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:16168 Activity:high
7/20    JFK Jr. is really not dead! What does the Kennedy family want more
        than anything else? A normal life. This whole crash thing is fake.
        While plunging the Piper at 1400 ft/minute, JFK Jr. parachutted,
        got into a boat, and went to a plastic surgeon to change his
        identity. While the Americans mourn, JFK Jr. is starting a new life.
        They will never find JFK Jr.'s body, because he IS NOT DEAD.
        \_ Exactly what is the American fascination with the Kennedies?
1998/10/7-8 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:14745 Activity:very high
10/6    The Cato Institute, which is sending libertarian activist David Boaz
        to appear with Kennedy at the Spitfire tour on the theme of "personal
        responsibility", desires to give away free tickets for Spitfire (which
        otherwise costs $18?) via campus libertarians.  It looks like I am
        going to receive a number of these tickets to give away, and Cato
        specifically says that they don't care how they are given out, so...
        does anyone want to go to see the event on October 18?  (If you feel
        compelled to flame Cato, David Boaz, libertarians, the LP, etc., I
        suggest private e-mail over the motd.)  -- schoen
        \_ Cool! It's so nice to see people who advocate the defunding
           of the arts offering free access to the cutting edge of
           American culture. What next? Does public support for
           community theater get replaced with free tickets to "Let
           Them Eat Cake: The Myth of Class in American Society"
           (brought to you by the Safeway Bakery)? Support for public
           schools get replaced by the charitable distribution of
           "Bobby Starts a Home Business" coloring books? Do
           government funded rape crisis centers get replaced with
           condom vending machines (and free pamphlets entitled "Date
           Rape: Personal Irresponsibility and Its Consequences"--
           brought to you by Trojan).
           \_ Hmmm, I think this counts as "flaming Cato", etc., but OK:
              for Cato and many other participants, Spitfire is a political
              event, not a cultural one.  It has no pretensions of being a
              cultural event, just an allegedly worthwhile exchange of ideas.
              Cato exists for politics, and other entities for other purposes,
              unless you want the local Symphony Orchestras to start holding
              protests on Sproul.  The Spitfire Tour is just appearing in
              Zellerbach because of the size of the venue (and perhaps the
              ASUC's access to it).  -- schoen
              \_ if you don't want flames stay away form the motd dumbass
                 \_ I didn't notice him complaining about it, he was doing
                    this thing known as "replying" to it.. silly concept,
                    huh, dumbass?
                        \_ dumbasses like you are disgraces to our
                           race.  You know who you are you  lamer.
        \_ give them to the homeless on Telegraph. i bet they'd enjoy
           a free lecture on personal responsibility
               \_ They probably would. Some of those guys get
                 public assistance and they still pan handle.
                 Others seem to be high school age kids who
                 suspiciously wear the latest in torn up jeans
                 and nice sneakers. My hunch is that maybe only
                 maybe one in ten pan handlers on Telegraph is
                 actually desperate and can not find a home
                 even if they tried. A few people are really
                 in need and just can't find jobs. The rest
                 probably need a lesson in responsibility. -fab
                 \_ i think 9 out of 10 people on telegraph
                    with facial tattoos are actually desperate
                        \- damn kids need a beating. --psb
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
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