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| 12/24 |
| 2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29816 Activity:high 72%like:29810 |
2/17 http://csua.org/u/61g (Yahoo! News): "Others call ____'s protest activities the reflection of a ___ so ambitious for a career in politics that he consciously held on to his own ______, now displayed in his ______ office. During the protest at the ______, _______, then ___ , threw the ____ of two other _____ , along with his own _________." What a hypocrite. \_ Uh... it's not a smear if it's true. \_ Once again, if the Democrats nominated Jesus, there would be reports in the right wing media that he was actually Satan. \_ He'd never win. He's Jewish. \_ Please identify the members of the right wing media. \_ If you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Kerry raped goats in public just after ritually sacraficing them, I'll still vote for him and give money to his campaign. I really don't like some of the democrats, but with Bush in office it just doesn't matter. \_ And this is exactly what is wrong with democracy in this country. Instead of voting for the better man you go out of your way to nominate the lesser evil. That will never improve the country. \_ http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp \_ Why not make up an intern story while you are at it? Oh, that's right, you already did! You just are looking more and more desperate and pathetic. Poor Neocons, you will go down like Nixon. \_ There aren't any so-called 'neocons' on the motd. There's probably only 20-30 in the entire country. |
| 2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29815 Activity:high |
2/17 McCain: Hanoi Hilton Guards Taunted POWs with Kerry's Testimony
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1079861/posts
\_ That's ok, Kerry is a hero! Even though he admits to having
engaged in war crimes. He was ordered to though so it's ok.
\_ urlP. His statements to Congress were based on what he
heard from others.
\_ He's done interviews since then. It's been around the net.
I really don't care to find it for you since it'll get
deleted in 5 minutes anyway. If you can't keep up with the
news cycles that's your problem. I'm going to the booth as
an informed voter.
\_ #t
\_ It says nothing about Kerry engaging in war crimes.
\_ Forgot our scheme, did we?
\_ Um. no. urlP in the context would suggest that
the answer to my question was already provided.
The url provided did not answer my point. Therefore
\_ Hahahahah! You guys look more and more desperate with each
passing day. Republicans are so cute when they are losing
their grip on power.
it should have been #f.
\_ Um. no. Some URL exists which does answer your
question, so #t. Nice try.
\_ Then you've rendered yourself totally useless.
dumbass.
\_ Heh, ask a stupid question....
\_ You can find URLs that say pretty much anything.
But you are probably confusing John Kerry with
Bob Kerrey.
\_ YEAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
\_ What a traitor, protesting a war. Only a communist would betray
noble patriots like McCain! Even though McCain seems to like him
now. I guess he *was* brainwashed as a POW after all.
\_ Republicans are so cute when they are desperate. |
| 2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29814 Activity:high |
2/17 Hey, as long as the freepers are throwing around Kerry the Hypocrite
stories, can I get a "Hey Hey!" for Larry Flynt and his Bush Abortion
story? He's been right more times than Drudge!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/165111p-144622c.html
\_ Drudge has been wrong exactly once. Larry Flynt? If that's the
best source of anti-Bush news, then you're in for 12 more Bush
years including the 8 Jeb is going to get. |
| 2004/2/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29810 Activity:nil 72%like:29816 |
2/17 http://csua.org/u/61g (Yahoo! News): "Others call Kerry's protest activities the reflection of a man so ambitious for a career in politics that he consciously held on to his own medals, now displayed in his Washington office. During the protest at the Capitol, Kerry, then 27, threw the medals of two other servicemen, along with his own ribbons." What a hypocrite. |
| 2004/2/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12278 Activity:high |
2/16 The other day, someone on MOTD suggested a mandatory draft in USA
as a sort of social lesson for everyone. Here is a commentary by
Daniel Schorr on what is the real issue behind President Bush's
National Guard record. It vividly display one of the acute
problem with mendatory draft:
http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1678830
\_ Here is a comment on mAndatory service rather than the link above.
The problem with mandatory service is that the only big contries
built on it have been dictatorships, communist or otherwise.
\_ rest deleted because it was too stupid to live.
\_ Hello, modern-day Germany has mandatory service.
\_ Yes and they're progressively getting rid of it, because
various studies have shown it to be a great place to
introduce impressionable adolescents to drugs and neo-
nazis. Also, usually, becoming an officer in European
armies is voluntary, but requires a huge time commitment-
most modern empoyers frown on this, meaning that 'shit
floats'. Lastly, most democratic countries with a draft
have either gotten rid of it, or are in the process of
doing so. It's expensive, it takes a huge social toll,
and doesn't create a terribly good military (Germany's army
has some _incredible_ problems.) Don't forget that the US
had a draft until the 70s; most of the smart people (plus
Bush) got out of it, meaning you ended up sending the
underclass off to war--against their wills. Modern-day
conscript forces are clunky, usually undertrained,
underfunded, highly incapable, and thoroughly unsuited
to modern warfare. Look at the Swiss army, one-time
example of quality--it's a complete joke nowadays. The
only working examples of conscript armies are those in
countries under direct military threat (e.g. Israel) where
most people see the need for large-scale participation in
defence. I don't see the Mexican army massing at our
southern borders anytime soon, do you? -John
\_ Mexico is already sending thousands across the boarder
every night. If that isn't an invasion, I don't know
what is.
\_ And 90% of Canada's population is massed within 100
miles of the US border! They _must_ be preparing to
invade!
\_ They've already invaded, but no one cares b/c
they already "look" american and speak the king's
english.
\_ Bloody monarchists! Who elected Elizabeth
queen?
Kennedy's appeal to young people's idealism is a classic populist
sound bite that perverts the fundamental premise of liberal
democracy, namely that the government serves at the pleasure of the
electorate and operates within the boundary of a robust legal
system. Having the people labor at the mercy and command of the
state in the name of sacrificing for their country, and commandeer
their time and property is, well, you know what it is.
\_ They've already invaded, but no one cares b/c
they already "look" american and speak the king's
english.
\_ Bloody monarchists! Who elected Elizabeth
queen?
\_ <insert Monty Python's Holy Grail reference
here>
\_ What, the curtains?
\_ She was elected?
\_ Hey, good way to ignore our completely open
borders and make a mockery of an important issue.
\_ Oh, that's right, I'm supposed to take your
"Barbarians are at the gates!" line seriously.
Relax, boyo, they're not here for any job that
you want, and we'll boot them if they dare to
organize or demand human rights.
\_ Yeah anything outside your little ivory
tower world just isn't important. We must
mock that which we disagree with because we
have no other points.
\_ I wrote the original draft post. Although realistically a
strict military draft isn't the way to go, I still think a
program of public service could be designed in such a way as to
be beneficial. It wouldn't really be a draft per se. There are
a lot of different types of service other than "military
grunt." It would have to be incentivized in ways other than
oppressive force. Related to the "underclass", with the current
system I often hear stories of poor people who feel forced into
the army economically. Some woman in the South Carolina debate
I think gave a sob story about that, about her son who died in
Iraq. The gov't TV ads emphasize learning job skills and
getting money for college, not getting killed by Arabs. So that
issue is still present even without a draft. [formatd]
\_ by Arabs, or Bosnians, or Somalis, or Nigerians, or Afghanis,
or North Koreans, or Palestinians, or Kuwaitis, or anyone
else I've forgotten that's been shot at or shooting at any
Americans in the last few years.
\_ Just admit that you're afraid to fight for your country. Then
truly appreciate those that are less fortunate than you, enough
to lose their lives so that you can go on.
\_ I'll fight for my country. I'll fight to make sure it doesn't
end up in the hands of boneheads like you.
\_ What was boneheaded about it? Is everyone posting on drugs
today? Is this backwards day or what? |
| 2004/2/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12270 Activity:nil |
2/15 Dated Dean, married Kerry, entertaining graphic sexual fantasies
about Edwards.
\_ finger-banged Kucinich
\_ Ewww! -fab
\_ fantasied on licking Manuel Noriega's face |
| 2004/2/13 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29803 Activity:high |
2/12 I love you Democrats. You have such interesting primaries. We
haven't had a good one like this in way too many election cycles.
And what's up with the intern thing? Are your guys boinking all
your interns? At least our guys go outside the office for a quickie.
\_ Bush vs. McCain wasn't interesting? Or are you not a Republican
either? Perhaps you're just an ignorant tool who doesn't
pay much attention to the news. |
| 2004/2/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29802 Activity:kinda low |
2/12 "Right-wing news web site The Drudge Report -- which broke the
Monica Lewinsky scandal -- claimed a woman close to Senator Kerry
recently left America at his behest." -Irish paper
Yes, I know the news is old. But it's funny how they call Drudge
right-wing.
\_ Yeah, all those links to main stream news sources, the right wing
nut bastard! It's insane! He must be stopped! |
| 2004/2/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12233 Activity:high |
2/11 Kerry infidelity. fuck
http://www.drudgereport.com/mattjk1.htm
\_ The floodgates are already opening? Why don't they wait for an
actual candidate to be nominated? Or are they that afraid of
Kerry?
\_ Quick update, looks like Drudge just got the wind taken out of his
sails by an email from Craig Crawford. Ah poor Matt, on to the
next unsubstantiated smear.
\_ John Kerry eats babies! You don't support eating babies, do you?
\_ urlP
\_ look on the bright side. if this breaks at the right time, we
could end up with edwards, who would be a stronger candidate
in a general election.
\_ *bwahahahahha* I told you Kerry was a loser candidate with too long
a history. I always thought you guys were insane for backing this
guy and should have put up Edwards. Lucky for you, now you can.
Too bad so many millions have been pissed away on Kerry now. Maybe
Soros will buy the Office for you. --conservative
\_ Its Drudge. Come on. This has about as much credibility as
a third grade schoolyard fight.
\_ But he's a legitimate journalist! He has a hat!
\_ Not to mention the questionable timing what with all the
BushTrouble, the fact that the exact same (false) accusations
came up at almost the same time in '92...sigh...of course
all the wingers will eat it up.
\_ Likely this will end up in the same circular file as the
Jane Fonda "photo expose," which turned out to be complete
hokum as the photo was taken 2 years before she went to
Hanoi...and Kerry had always spoken out against her trip
anyway. Fact is, if the Democrats nominated Jesus himself
the Rovian smear machine would be out circulating proof that
he was actually Satan.
\_ Did you know he healed lepers without a medical license?
And what's the deal with Mary Magdalane? Why aren't they
married? Also he went off walking in the desert for 40
days. Doesn't that seem like he's a wierdo loner?
\_ The democrats will never nominate Jesus. He's too
Christian
\_ That was an inevitable response.
\_ Actually the "render unto Caesar" thing and "give your
money to the poor" thing pretty much insure Jesus would
be smeared by Republicans.
\_ the news drudge releases may be puerile, but I've found them
(with the exception of the worldnetdaily URLs) to be
relevant and truthful. if he continues posting worldnetdaily
quality news, I'll stop going. also, IMO, if these rumors
turn out to be false, then drudge just got tricked, in
a big way. duh. |
| 2004/2/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12227 Activity:nil |
2/11 NYTimes: Vietnam-Era Kerry Saw a Military Led by U.N.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1076555/posts
\_ And over 30 years, one is NOT ALLOWED to reconsider their positions,
dammit...
\_ Do you think "American security" is directly dependant upon
"troops dispersed through the world"?
\_ The UN at the time had a lot more credibility than it does today.
And nice way to misrepresent the article--"dispersed through the
world only at the directive of the UN" != "military led by UN".
Bad troll. -John
\_ formatted
\_ Head hung in shame. -John
\_ They seem equivalent to me. Can you explain the difference?
\_ by the UN and his mistress? man was not meant to live by bread
alone! |
| 2004/2/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12203 Activity:kinda low |
2/10 Serious inquiry. I don't think Bush has talked about outsourcing.
What is his official position? I've heard Kerry talk on the radio
saying that he'll remove tax breaks to companies that move jobs
overseas. Also he called those CEOs Benedict Arnold CEOs. He has
also proposed legislation that would require call centers operators
to answer the phone announcing their location. I'd go farther.
All call center operators should announce their REAL first name and
location. All those sweatshops in india pick up the phone and LIE
about their name. I can tell the phony accent. They name is not
John or Mary. It's Prakash, Rajesh, Lakshmi, etc. I don't like
people lying to me. Where does Bush stand on this issue?!
\- When the people at Safeway/McD which you a great day, do
you think they should be randomly checked under peine forte
et dure for sincereity? How about when a cafe announces they
have the best coffee in the world? what is *your* stand on
steel tarriffs? --psb
\_ When the people at Safeway/McD which you a great day, do
you think they should be randomly checked under peine forte
et dure for sincereity? How about when a cafe announces they
have the best coffee in the world? what is *your* stand on
steel tarriffs? --psb
[formatting corrected. I just couldn't take it anymore.]
\_ why should they have to announce their location? how would you
like to do that?
\_ "Hello, my name is Prakash in Bangalore India. May I verify
your social security number?"
"What?! I want to talk to a supervisor in the United States.
I'm not giving my social security number to somebody in India."
\_ the opening phrase used by the call center person is not a
concern for the call center person. it's just a script. their
feelings in the matter are of no concern. |
| 2004/2/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12175 Activity:high |
2/9 Holy smoke, CNN/Time has Bush approval at 42%. Aren't you wingers
even a little bit worried now?
\_ That's just the bias of the liberal media.
\_ Ahhh, right. Sorry, I'll assume the position again, sir.
\_ URL?
\_ Its from this issue of Time:
link:csua.org/u/5wq
Kos has a scan here of the relevant graph. Yes its a partisan
website, deal with it:
http://www.dailykos.com/images/poll_1.gif
\_ Also, the numbers on the top right are REVERSED! Go go TIME!
\_ http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
Reports this backwards from Time. One of them is wrong.
\_ Time printed it backwards. Ah well. Gotta love copy editors
asleep at the switch. |
| 2004/2/8 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12155 Activity:high |
2/7 Oh well... 4 more Bush years. Kerry took WA and Michigan by huge
numbers.
\_ This post is so dumb, I don't know where to start.
\_ Start at the beginning. If you're such a genius it should be
easy. Your inability to express your feelings as clear and
rational thought composed of words doesn't speak highly of your
intellectual capacity or ability to reason.
\_ And you?
\_ I assume you're saying that Kerry can beat Bush?
Unfortunatly, Kerry is such a doo-doo head I don't think he
has a prayer.
\_ for us non-first-graders here, what exactly does being
a "doo-doo head" imply? and if you're talking about shit
for brains, well, one could argue that bush doesn't even
have the benefit of that. |
| 2004/2/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:12125 Activity:kinda low |
2/5 We Worship Jefferson, But We Have Become Hamilton's America
Excellent historical perspectives throughout this thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1071513/posts?page=1,50
\_ No shit Sherlock. We talked about this when I was in HS.
How is this news now?
\_ We did? I don't think you and I went to the same high school.
What'd you think of that hottie 23 year old number they got in
to teach social studies?
\_ Dude! Totally! She was HOT! I'd totally do her!
\_ I don't know what dumbfuck HS you came from but we
talked about Jefferson vs. Hamilton and how it relates
to differing stages of the country pretty early on. It's
one of the standard essays you write on the AP and it's
a common topic amongst historians.
\_ We didn't all go to your nice white elite HS. That is the
kind of dumbfuck HS I went to. My HS wasn't even
accredited so my grades didn't count. I got in on my test
scores alone, not my nice white fluffed up inflated grades.
Any more questions? |
| 12/24 |
| 2004/2/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12101 Activity:very high |
2/4 The Democratic motd wonks may be interested in this forum held
in South Carolina before its primary. Instead of the candidates
going at each other, each takes a turn answering questions from
pre-selected audience members (who, in this case, happen to be
low-income and associated with community-based organizations).
In this format, there's nowhere for the candidates to hide. Go
to http://www.cspan.org enter "candidate forum" in the video
search box, and click on "Democratic Presidential Candidate
Forum" (1/30/2004: Columbia, SC). Running time: 1 hr., 28 min.
My impression: Gen. Clark, hit with the most difficult
confrontation, responded masterfully; Edwards makes me
suspicious of smooth-talking pretty-boy Southerners; Kerry
will get his ass kicked by Dubya; even the liberal activists
in the audience were wondering what Kucinich was smokin'; Dean
kept his confidence and enthusiasm in check (which was too bad);
and Sharpton executed a couple clever (though ill-deserved)
one-liners. -elizp
\_ I like your summary. Do this more often. I esp agree that Kerry
has no hope. I think Clark or Edwards have the best shot.
\_ Edwards looks like a little boy. Nobody wants a little
boy being president of the United States (with the
exception of the monkey currently holding the POTUS seat),
I think Clark has the best shot.
\_ Kerry is out-marketing Clark. People seem to go for Kerry's
tough-guy talk and corny one-liners. When you get right
down to it, Clark may indeed be the strongest, but he'd have
to win the nomination first. Clark's not as good a politician
as Kerry. Which is a good thing, but cheap politics works.
\_ Clark is a Republican. Anyway, if Bush is so weak and
such a blazing idiot then it shouldn't matter. _ANY_ of
these guys should be able to obliterate Bush so you should
be voting your concious, not based solely on who you think
has the best chance. They all have 100% chance of success
because Bush is such a stupid monkey.
\_ Don't get cocky. -liberal
\_ I'm not cocky, we all know Bush is a stupid monkey
and we all know he stole the election and didn't
even get the popular vote so of course he'll lose
this time. How can a stupid monkey like Bush get
into office twice? He can't steal it twice. Thus,
Bush must lose because he's a stupid monkey and every
single Democratic candidate running is superior.
\_ You are not a very good imitation of a lefty,
righty troll.
\_ I wasn't imitating. I'm mimicking which is
intended to be seen for what it is for
effect. I guess that was lost on you. Losing
only one of you isn't too bad. |
| 2004/2/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12096 Activity:moderate |
2/3 So it's a wrap. We're now at Kerry >>> Edwards > Clark and the
rest will be dropping out. IMO, Clark barely scraped by, has too
little funding coming from a small clique of rich people and will
be out of the race in a few weeks at most. Edwards will be around
until at least CA and then we'll see.
\_ I just don't get the Edwards thing. Is there a message there
that I'm missing, or is he really running a successful campaign
on being young, hansome, and having a southern accent?
\_ He's not that young, just looks it. He's in his 50's.
\_ Don't forget making your millions by suing doctors for things
they didn't cause!
http://csua.org/u/5tx
http://csua.org/u/5ty
\_ I've read less biased links about his court time. Let me
remind you that you can sue anyone for anything you want in
this country but only the *JURY* can decide if your case
has merit. Juries decided his cases did. Case closed. And
no, I'm not an Edwards supporter.
\_ Clark is positioning himself as a VP candidate, by not pissing
anyone off. Kerry/Clark will be able to go after Bush on
military issues.
\_ Bullshit. I think Clark is a guy who actually means what he says,
and if he says he won't consider a VP slot, I think he means it.
I predict that if he loses a few more primaries, he'll bow out
of politics permanently.
\_ Bullshit. I think Clark is a guy who actually means what he
says, and if he says he won't consider a VP slot, I think he
means it. I predict that if he loses a few more primaries,
he'll bow out of politics permanently. [formatd]
\_ Which gives Clark about a 9 month stay in politics.
\_ Kerry already has the war record thing going for him. What does
he really need Clark for?
\_ Being southern. Problem is, Edwards is too and he's more
charming.
\_ Kerry has the perception of being too liberal. He's a
democrats from the same state as Ted Kennedy. What do you
expect? Kerry/Clark or Kerry/Edwards will bring in support
from moderates and southerners. Personally I think
Kerry/Clark is a better fit because they bring credibility
to foreign policy and terrorism debates. Edwards might help
Kerry carry more southern states, but it takes more than
carrying a couple of southern states to win against Bush.
Dean, of course, is flaming out just like another dot-com.
Raised a lot of cash and blew it all away in a short time.
That describes a typical dot-bomb.
\_ Problem w/ Edwards/Kerry is that they are both senators.
It's good to mix it up a bit, vs having two ppl w/ legistlve
exp. Also Clark/Kerry seems to really hit home the whole
military angle and just BushBash away wrt his flight suit and
other military/political gaffes.
\_ I think I'll donate my flooz to Dean's campaign...
\_ Way too funny for the motd. Pearls before swine....
\_ Are you saying Clark has foreign policy experience? Uhm,
sort of, but I'd put more faith in Kerry's 35 years for how
foreign policy works than Clark. As far as the South goes,
Edwards has done better there so far and is a 'real'
Southerner. Clark is from Arkansas which is sort of the
south only if you're from either coast. Clark doesn't have
*any* experience dealing with terrorism.
\_ fighting terrorism means commanding the military.
Do you fight against Bin Laden with diplomacy? No,
you send in troops and bomb the hell out of the guy.
Who has experience commanding troops? Clark. Not Bush,
not Kerry, not Edwards.
\_ Fighting terrorism means intelligence work and black
ops and beating/drugging people in dark rooms. Now
that you understand do you still see Clark as the
right guy for that job? No experience, certainly.
If all it took was bombing shit, then we've already
got the right guys in office and don't need a new
administration.
\_ The current administration doesn't get the whole
precision bombing thing unless it supports troop
movements. Think about it: Afghanistan and Iraq
showed off our ability to hammer the opposition
so that the ground troops could mop up. Bosnia
showed off our ability to hammer the opposition
so the the ground troops didn't need to mop up.
\_ Well, that also has to do with the fact that
the Serbs weren't suicidal fanatics.
\_ So you think the more primitive weapons used in
Yugoslavia were somehow better aimed and more
effective and precise because they were dropped
during a (D) administration? Okey dokey!
\_ Fighting terrorism means a lot more than just using
the stick. You need to use the carrot, too. See
The Nazis vs. The Russian Partisans, Britain vs.
The Irish and many many more historical examples
of why just trying to defeat "terrorism" with force
only always fails.
\_ Fighting terrorism means stop making enemies with
everyone and stop telling everyone else what to do.
\_ Sometimes, outside the sandbox, you can't always
be friends with everyone. Sometimes the bad guys
really are bad and really do want to kill you and
there's really nothing you can do about it if
you're not willing to surrender. Are you French?
\_ sometimes yes, as with the Germans in WW2.
It's not the case with the current "war on
terror" though.
\_ perhaps you'd like to go read up on the
history of Islamic conquests and the spread
of Islam since it's inception and then say
that.
\_ Do you honestly advocate killing every one
of the worlds 400M Arabs? You are never going
to be able to seperate the "bad" ones from
the "good" ones, you know.
\_ Duh, of course not. This goes back to the
original thing I said which is that fighting
terrorism is primarily *not* a "drop the
bombs on them!" task, but dirty ugly black
ops, capture/torture, and assassination as
necessary. As for the rest, by squeezing
their funding sources and helping more
moderate (ie: not suicidal crazy) Muslim
states and groups the terrorists will run
out of places to hide and the ability to
recruit replacements and volunteers for
their militarily useless suicide missions.
\_ Fair enough, I agree with you mostly
then. I think you need to remember that
the carrot works better than the
stick in modifying human behavior.
But we do need both, and probably
the stick you advocate is the
right one to beat with.
\_ Cool, psych1 time: the stick works
faster, the carrot works better if you
are patient, persistent, have time,
and care about the feelings of the
subject you're training. I'll be
honest: I don't care as long they stop
sending their own children out wearing
bombs. Everything after that is up
for negotiation. Never negotiate with
terrorists. They always want more.
It's that whole "peace with honor"
thing. It didn't work then, either.
\_ One man's terrorist is another
mans freedom fighter. Were the
US Revolutionaries "terrorists"?
How about the IRA? The Contras?
I could go on, but the point is
that your absolutist stance does
not really work in the real world.
Not that I advocate negotiating
with terrorists directly, but
listening to their demands and
undermining support for them
is vital. It is the whole
"hearts and minds" idea. Even
Bush knows this, see how we pulled
out of Saudi Arabia. This was OBL's
number one complaint.
\_ You are right that Kerry is seen as another Dukakis. I
don't think having a Southern VP will help much. IMO,
a VP can hurt (Lieberman, Ferraro) but can't help. It's
just the VP. Are Southerners supposed to suddenly vote
for a Yankee because there's a Southerner on the
ticket? People will mostly vote for the President they
want and the VP is an afterthought with limited influence.
\_ You think Joe hurt Gore? I think Joe is a righteous
upstanding guy who only brought credibility to that
backstabbing scumbag, Gore. Your idea that the VP
doesn't matter to voters is contrary to accepted wisdom.
You may or may not be right but those who earn their
money getting people elected would all say you're wrong.
\_ Funny, I thought he was a self-rightous whore for the
insurance industry.
\_ You are correct. Him and Kucinich are the only
two Democratic candidates who would actually
cause me to vote for Bush.
\_ Yes, I think Joe hurt by virtue of being Jewish.
I realize what the accepted wisdom is, but think
about it. If GWB suddenly chose Dean or Kerry or
<your favorite candidate> as VP would you vote
for him? People are going to vote for the President
they want. The VP has influence, but you cannot
award "The South" to a candidate based on his VP.
Gore was *from* the South and lost badly there.
\_ If Bush chose Kerry or Dean then I'd certainly
*not* vote for him. VP *does* matter. --(R)
\_ Because Gore was a loser. Not because his VP was
Jewish. It wasn't that long ago 'they' said that
a *Catholic* could _never_ be President....
\_ Joe almost won Florida for Gore. That was pretty
much his whole reason for being on the ticket, to
motivate Jewish retirees in Florida. If Edwards
can get North Carolina or South Carolina for Kerry,
Bush's chances get a whole lot worse. I personally
don't think he can do it, but his presence could
make the difference in a close state like West
Virginia.
\_ The point is that Gore couldn't even get
Tennessee for Gore.
\_ ouch!
\_ Before we start calling this a wrap, let's remember that we're only
up to 578 delegates pledged out of 4,321 possible votes. Yes, Kerry
has out-delegated his closest competitor (Dean) by 100%, but the
game is still in its early stages, and there's plenty of room for
more people to drop out. Moreover, remember that the Dem Primary
is not constructed on any reasonably logical rules:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/more.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard
\_ Thanks for the URLs, I'll check them out. The thing is there's
this whole momentum thing. People like winners. They vote for
winners. They want to be associated with winners and tell their
friends they voted for a winner. It is certainly possible but
growing ever more unlikely as each state turns to Kerry that the
others can hope to catch up. |
| 2004/2/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12086 Activity:very high |
2/2 Today is Super Tuesday (for those of you still hung over).
Before the poll results come back lets see some guessing about who
is coming out of this looking like a winner or loser.
Winners:
Kerry: ...
Edwards: ..
Dean: ..
Clark:
Losers:
Kerry:
Edwards: .
Dean: ..
Clark: ..
\_ Maybe I'm not getting something. Super Tuesday isn't until March.
\_ This is it. By March it'll all be over. --op
Winners:
Kerry: ...
Edwards: ..
Dean: ..
Clark:
Losers:
Kerry:
Edwards: .
Dean: ..
Clark: ..
\_ Bush stuff removed for being off-topic. It's the Democratic
primary.
\_ According to early exit poll results, It's Kerry > Edwards and
the rest are toast.
\_ Yeah. Despite a couple polls I agree Bush will win. Especially
if they find Osama. But even if not, Kerry just isn't saying
anything particularly different from Bush. The entire south
will go Bush and probably a lot of midwest. When it gets to
the Kerry/Bush debates, they'll stand there agreeing with each
other, except Kerry will come off as an arrogant elite Yankee.
\_ I didn't say anything at all about Bush. You can't agree
with me that Bush will win. I never said that. sheesh.
\_ I was agreeing with whoever else said he would. Sheesh,
some people think the world revolves around them.
\_ No one said that. You're smoking.
\_ No one ever said Bush will win? Who's smoking?
\_ But you have to admit that he looks good after the botox. Or
at least better.
\_ BUSH W1LL W!N ALL 50 STATEZ D00D!!
HE L00KS SO KEWL IN THAT FLIGHT JACKET!!!!!
HE WILL TAKE CALIFORNIA FOR SURE!@11!
\_ I wouldn't bet on it.
\_ You only say that because you are a terrorist loving
America hater. Bush is not a loud mouthed, redneck,
strutting stuffed rooster that will lose every state
outside of the Deep South and the Rockies. His big
cowboy hat and macho manner play very well in California.
\_ One word: Arnold.
\_ Another word: Davis.
\_ Two more: Movie star.
\_ The Final Words: only time will tell |
| 2004/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29775 Activity:nil 72%like:12056 |
1/31 http://signonsandiego.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=SignOnSanDiego.com+%3E+News+%3E+Politics+--+Kerry+no+stranger+to+lobbyists%27+donations&expire=&urlID=9116821&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.signonsandiego.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F20040130-9999_1n30kerry.html&partnerID=621 I guess Dean was the better candidate afterall.... \_ Direct URL: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040130-9999_1n30kerry.html |
| 2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12043 Activity:moderate |
1/30 Are there really that many people on the motd who like Bush? Most
conservatives I talk to don't have much respect for him, but like him
more than the Howard Dean / Kerry liberal bunch.
\_ yes, I like Bush. But true conservatives might think he is too
liberal, but they would rather have Bush than Dean/Kerry or
any democrat.
\_ don't really care much for Bush, he's okay but no Reagan. He seems
to be able to relate to people though. I didn't care much for his
father either. I think his cabinet and his internal staff are
pretty sharp though, even if you disagree with Wolfowitz and the
neocons. You gotta hand it to them, they sure know how to engineer
policy. I tend to think that the 2nd Bush era will be remembered
for its ability to exploit current events well, something that
Clinton never learned and GB Sr. only learned too late.
\_ Reagan > Bush >>>>>>>>>>>> Dean/Kerry/Democrat
\_ With a nuanced argument like that, who needs to think for
themselves! Viva la Bush!
\_ it's not an argument. it's an expression of a view.
\_ okay, why do you people like Bush? He doesn't stand for the values
Republicans are /supposed/ to believe in (minimal government
interference in the lives of citizens; goverment is more Big
Brotherly than it was before), and he keeps making more enemies for
the U.S..
Brotherly than it was before), he keeps making more enemies for
the U.S., and he lied about the war. |
| 2004/1/29 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:12005, category id '18005#6.125' has no name! , ] UID:12005 Activity:nil |
1/29 How can Dean possibly be out of money? I mean seriously, I thought
he had like $40 million in the bank?? I know he spent $7-10m in Iowa
and I'm guessing another $3m in NH which should leave him with $30m
or so. What's up with that?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040129/D80CI9683.html
\_ Poor management? Spending $7 to $10 mil in Iowa is retarded.
\_ Concentrating on too many states, ie. spreading his resources too
thin. Also, opting out of federal matching funds hurts.
\_ pocketing $30 million as "expenses" |
| 2004/1/29 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11995 Activity:nil |
1/29 Would you Deaniac types please go out there and do a better job
for your guy. This 2nd and 3rd place thing is just bullshit.
I'm not sure Bush can beat Kerry but Dean is BSE hamburger.
\_ Th3 D0ct0r0r 4 Pr3z!!!@@@@@!!!! |
| 2004/1/28 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11973 Activity:moderate |
1/27 Are Vegas bookies placing odds on the Democratic Primary? or point
spreads? Where can these numbers be found?
\_ http://tradesports.com
\_ thanks!
\_ Here is the Iowa Electronic Markets numbers:
http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/markets/data_Pres04_VS.html
Looks like you could make some money if you arbitrage the two. |
| 2004/1/26 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11938 Activity:nil |
1/26 Yes! Dean pulls to only 3 points behind Kerry in NH! --Republican
http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/43159|top|01-26-2004::07:12|reuters.html
\_ Those stupid democrats don't know the real issues. The real issue is
steroids in national sports. How come none of them talk about that?
Why don't they talk about Saddam's WMD-related program activities?
I think they're all a bunch of homosexuals too, they way they go on.
\_ Bad troll! No cookie!
\_ Troll? GW started it.
\_ I thought he was funny.
\_ I'm a Republican, and I can't stand GWB. Why do Republicans like
him? The government is bigger, more bloated, and more Big
Brotherly than it was before.
\_ Because they've lost their way. They've fallen into the same
"win elections at the expense of what we believe in" trap that
the Democrats fell into years ago. Now it truly is a one party
system. Two names, one party. --conservative non-(R) |
| 2004/1/25 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11929 Activity:nil |
1/24 Kerry 3 points over Bush in Newsweek poll:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040124/nysa010a_1.html
\_ Yep. Go vote for Kerry and make him your guy and then we'll drag
him around for 6 months and see where he polls. |
| 2004/1/25 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11928 Activity:nil |
1/24 Attention conspiracy theorists!!! Are you aware that Kerry was a
member of Skull and Bones secret society at Yale, Just like Bush Jr.
and Bush Sr.? What does it all mean?
\_ depends on what it is. when i was kid, my friends and i thought
the kool-aid man was pretty cool. what does that mean?
\_ I guess I was trying to make an obtuse point: the tin foil
hat crowd is severely divided. The clinton-hating tin foil hat
crowd will never admit that Bush is part of the Evil Skull
Conspiracy and the Bush-hating tin foil hat crowd will never
admit that Kerry is part of the Conspiracy. Both of these
groups are strongly represented on the motd. Personally, I don't
think the secret societies amount to jack, and was hoping to
draw out the tin foil hat people, but now you've burst the
bubble.
\_ No. Correction: it isn't that we won't admit Bush is part of
S&B. That would be stupid since it's a simple matter of fact.
It is that we don't care that either Bush (or Kerry either)
was a member of the Spanking "May I Please Have Another!"
Society. What people did in college just isn't all that
damned important. If you're trying to draw out the tinfoil
people you need to start with something they believe in, not
what you *think* they believe in. There was no bubble to
burst, young troll.
\_ Well there's something about Yale anyway. Dean went there too.
And Clinton. Damn east coasters always giving west coast the shaft.
\_ Yeah, imagine going to the best school you can get into in your
geographic area instead of going 3000 miles away to a lesser
school with higher entry standards. How stupid of them to all
go to Yale, Harvard & Princeton.
\_ Funny you should phrase it that way, since Bush came from
Texas and UT Austin is easier to get into but provides a
far better and more rigorous education than Yale.
Don't believe me? Go look up the requirments for any given
major at Yale and at UT, and look at the silibi of the major
courses.
\_ yeah, keep thinking that.
\_ Let's start with the value of a Cal education. Go look up
"silibi" and come back to tell us how smart you are.
\_ Well Clinton, as governor, was involved in the narcotics
trafficking at Mena during the Bush#1 presidency. Bush, as former
director of CIA, should never have been President; there should
be a law prohibiting such an andvancement . Supposedly the Clintons
and Bushes have been good friends since the '80s. - freeper
\_ What is so special about being the head of a particular agency
that should disqualify someone from the other Office? I don't
recall seeing that line in the Constitution. Maybe we should
ban anyone who has had military service, too? Or who was an
executive at a multinational company? Or who ever tipped below
15%? Or who ever cut in line at the super market? |
| 2004/1/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11875 Activity:nil |
1/21 Can someone repost the Howard Dean techno remixes?
\_ Howard Dean's outrage reminds me of the historical Hitler speech,
and while I don't understand German both leaders seem to have the
same ethusiastic and forceful tone.
\_ I think the difference is Hitler was full of anger, but Dean's
speech wasn't about outrage, it was rallying a group of loyal
supporters after a setback. His hoarse voice made him sound
bad but he was clearly laughing when he did that YAHH thing.
Hitler never laughed.
\_ No, Dean sounded like a "Pro" wrestler from the WWE going off
about all the arenas he is going to clobber his opposition in.
\_ Hello guys, Godwin's Law? Anyway, that's the WWF.
\_ No, idiot. It's WWE. http://www.wwe.com See lawsuit from
http://www.wwf.org Ignorant slut!
\_ I always liked Clark more but was going to support Dean if he had
momentum, but the yeeeeaah puts me firmly in the Clark/Edwards/
notDean camp (he's still better the Lieberman or Kucinich).
\_ Why does a rally yell alter your opinion either way?
\_ Dean comes off really badly on TV. Despite the Internet,
this is the kiss of death for a candidate. Its pretty clear
from the Des Moines debacle that he and his campaign don't
recognize this and aren't capable of changing it.
\_ Dean has served a purpose. He showed that things can
happen if you actually put some work into it. He showed
that you can actually stand up and say something and
people may listen. Something the democrats seemed to
have forgotten. Whether he's the candidate or not,
he's been invaluable. --scotsman
\_ Seems like he also showed how you can torpedo your
own campaign without sex involved. :-)
\_ This is why I still support Dean. He's been under
attack but he's the one who's demonstrated leadership
in the campaign and rallied the most support. You don't
want another Al Gore candidate, dull and uninspiring.
Dean doesn't fit the stereotype, but he may have the
good chance of winning against Bush because of that.
Kerry at least would get spanked. As if Ted Kennedy's
support would go over well across America. Clark is
pretty dull but would make a good VP. Edwards is ok but
against a full-on assault he may crumble, being so green.
\_ Dean has support? More than Kerry and Edwards? No.
Certainly not in Iowa and according to polls, not in
NH or anywhere else. Sorry, but you're deluded. If
Dean doesn't come out #1 in NH it is all over. If
Kerry & Edwards both do well again you'll see a Kerry
& Edwards ticket in November. If Clark manages to
come in #1 (and only #1) then we'll have to wait a
few short weeks for the next round of big votes.
\_ Show me a nationwide poll that has Kerry or
Edwards ahead of Dean. You are just talking
out your ass.
\_ Dean's post-Iowa rave party
http://www.marken.us/auction/dean_goes_nuts_remix.mp3
http://home.comcast.net/~texaggie79/dean2.mp3
\_ Howard Dean *is* Timmy: link:tinyurl.com/2d2ta (mfile.akamai.com) |
| 2004/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11870 Activity:nil |
1/21 Seems like the Republicans on the motd haven't yet figured out the story
isn't Dean anymore, its that the Democratic primary has become dynamic
and interesting. I don't know who the Democratic nominee is going to
be and neither do you, but I think I'm pretty safe in betting that its
not going to be Dr. YEAHHH!!!!! Go John Edwards! |
| 2004/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:11867, category id '18005#12.65' has no name! , ] UID:11867 Activity:nil |
1/21 Joshua Marshall(TPM) interviews George Soros:
http://csua.org/u/5mx
\_ 'this administration has no compunction in misleading the people.
It has no respect for the truth. This, I think, is a real danger.
It is the danger of an Orwellian world. It's not new, because
obviously, Orwell wrote about this fifty years ago. But what he
wrote in 1984, you know, the Ministry of Truth being the
Propaganda Ministry, the use of words meaning the opposite of
what they are meant to mean. The Fox News, "Fair and Balanced,"
the "Clear Skies" Act for permitting pollution, the "Leave No
Child Behind" [that] provides no money for the legislation.'
\_ "Fair & Balanced" is only offensive if you're on the left. As
someone not on the left, I mostly stopped watching the tv news
years ago because it was so sickeningly left. At least when I
watch Fox News I understand there is a bias. A bias in the
direction of my political philosophy I readily acknowledge and
easily see. It is laughable that the left doesn't see the same
bias in their own news on the other stations.
\_ The quote is about "misleading," not about "offensiveness."
You acknowledge that there is a political "bias" in their
news. Ignore whether you agree w/ the channel's politics.
Just tell me, does "Fair & Balanced" accurately represent a
news station with a political bias? No. That's why it is
misleading.
\_ It's not necessarily misleading. You can make the case that
because the american media has such a predominantly liberal
bent the only fair and balanced thing to do would be to bend
the other way. Kind of like the way you libs want to
compensate for slavery with affirmative action.
\_ I thought this point was obvious but thanks for
pointing it out to the above confused person. I do
believe that Fox's centrist and sometime right
leaning stance is an excellent balance to the
leftist trash that has been coming from the bulk of
the news media for decades. And again, unlike the
left watching their stations, I understand what I'm
watching is sometimes biased. So does a huge number
of other people that have sent Fox's ratings through
the roof.
\_ It is not centrist. They always aggressively question
Democrats, while never doing this with Repubs.
You imply that the republican agenda is centrist, and
opposition is flaming liberalism. |
| 2004/1/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11843 Activity:low |
1/19 Iowa: Dean: Crushed. At least Iowans have some sense.
\_ So, do you actually believe that Kerry can beat Bush, and that
if he does he'll really make a noticable difference?
or Edwards? I also find it hard to take seriously a process
that has Dennis Kucinich beating Wesley Clark by more than a factor
of 10.
\_ As a registered voting Republican I find Dean a weak and pathetic
opponent. I honestly don't think he stands a chance in Hell vs.
Bush in a general election. A Kerry/Edwards ticket is going to
be a tough race (assuming they don't stumble, rape any nuns, etc)
I don't see what you see in Dean. His only claim to fame is he
hates Bush (or says he does) as much as you do. He can't win a
national election on "I'm the guy who hates Bush!" Adults won't
vote that theme in sufficient numbers. People at the polls want
hope for the future, they want the vision thing, not hatred and
bile and spewing.
\_ Actually, I don't believe Dean could beat Bush. Why? Because
Dean portrays himself as a one-issue candidate - namely, the
whole WMD thing. Although he may be right about Bush using
WMD as a ruse to accomplish his own acts of personal revenge
while jeapordizing the lives of thousands of American soldiers,
British soldiers, and innocent civilians, most American voters
don't seem to give a damn.
\_ Clark wasn't running in Iowa.
\_ You're replying to a Deaniac. You can't expect him to know
anything.
\_ I can't get excited about any of the other candidates. They avoid
anything controversial, and just do the same old political dance.
I agree Edwards is pretty impressive though. It's easy to imagine
him getting broad support.
\_ Also, Gephardt is expected to drop out of presidential contest.
http://csua.org/u/5m4
\_ Good riddance.
\_ kind of sad, because I really think Gephardt *REALLY* has a shot
against Bush. He is not the most exciting canidate on earth,
but he has the organization to mobilize massive mainstream
voters. -socialist who love dean, but well aware
dean is too far to the left to be successful.
\- Do you like Gephardt's OrangeGlow? --psb
\_ The more I think about it, the more an Edwards/Clark ticket looks
like the ideal. John Edwards is a pretty cool guy.
\_ I like the way you think...except don't you mean Clark/Edwards?
\_ Why Clark? He's a Republican for Christ's sake! I don't see
how any Democrat voter could seriously cast a ballot for him.
\_ First of all, I think Clark has the best chance of unseating
Bush (honestly, Dean doesn't stand a chance). Second, I'd
like to think that I'm voting for a person based on his
leadership and not his party affiliation. As a registered
Democrat, I'm voting for Clark because I think he
demonstrated strong leadership as Supreme Allied Commander
during the Kosovo campaign.
\_ If he was a Republican would you cross over and vote for
Clark instead of any of the other Democrats running? If
yes, then great. If not, then you're full of it.
\_ I don't think Clark is Republican. The only thing
that makes him Republican is Dean saying he is and
the fact that Republicans like to make the words
Republican and military synonymous with each other
(which I think is a load of crap). I don't believe
people are born into a party and stick with it their
whole lives. There are many people who switch party
affiliations. That doesn't make them less of a
Democrat or less of a Republican.
\_ So you honestly just believe that Clinton called him
one day last year and he suddenly had this instant
conversion from (R) to (D) philosophy and ideals?
It wasn't too long before that he wa heaping praise
on Bush and the rest of the Bush Admin. and was out
lobbying and promoting (R) causes. As a (R) I'd vote
for him except he's so flip floppy. No conviction.
\_ During times of war, people usually give the
POTUS the benefit of the doubt because there is
the assumption that the president isn't a lying
scumbag who's willing to risk thousands of lives
for the sake of personal revenge. But Bush lied
to everyone, including Clark and Kerry. In fact,
many people who once supported Bush during the
war now oppose him. Things change. People switch
from R to D or D to R.
\_ Bush is not the (R) party. He's one man. No
one switches parties based on the actions of
one man who at best will have 2 terms. That's
just plain silly. The entire philosophy of
the two parties is different.
\_ Republicans voted for Swartzenegger. (sp?)
\_ Some. So did a lot of Democrats. This Republican voted
for Tom. When you see this State swirl down the toilet
because we (as a State) elected an actor don't come on
here and try to make it out like this was a pure (R) thing.
He had broad support across all lines. unfortunately.
\_ It's thinking like this that will give us another 4 years
of Bush, which is the last thing I want. Wake up!
\_ So you'll vote for a Republican, any Republican, if it
\_ having a balanced budget and good headway towards
reducing some of our national debt would have been
a lot better for the poor and middle classes.
Instead, some people got a check. To induce spending?
In a time when our economy was fucked? This
administration took a promise of the first net
positive budget balance I can remember in my lifetime,
and turned it into an even larger deficit. How exactly
does this help the poor? Plus, although I was one of
the lucky ones who actually got a $300 check, most of
the people I know (family, acquaintances, etc) did not.
It was completely random.
means getting Bush out of office?
\_ He supports repealing the tax cuts, cutting income tax for
families making under $50k, and medical coverage for all
children. This does not sound Republican to me.
\_ Uhm? Repealing the tax cuts means the poor and middle
class and married people all get fucked. Are you even
remotely aware of who the tax cuts helped and by how
much? It seems not. Don't bring that talking points
mantra stuff to the motd. It was not just the top 1%
that was allowed to keep more of their money or was given
more money. Every working family and person got
something. Repeal the tax cuts and you hurt those same
children you say you want to help. You don't know what
a Republican sounds like.
\_ Have you looked at what Clark has proposed? Repeal the
dividend and estate tax cuts, restructure the income tax
cuts and _actually_ help the poor and middle class.
\_ Refute me, you ass, don't bother dismissing me.
[Somewhat better response either overwritten or
deletd.]
\_ I refuted you. The tax cuts helped everyone in some
way. Repealing them hurts everyone in some way.
Do you want me to find and quote the specific lines
from the new tax code? If you can't see that I did
more than enough to make my case I can't be blamed
for your ignorance of what should be common
knowledge. Go read a newspaper. And I didn't have
anything to do with any deletes or overwrites, btw.
\_ I like how people claim that Bush's tax cuts
"helped everyone" when I'm sitting in front of
my pay check trying to figure out how I was
"helped". I guess it must have been that
whopping $20 in tax savings. Big fucking deal.
\_ stop overwriting.
\_ Well, stop writing to the motd when I am.
\_ you overwrote my post(the spam post),
plus the first reply to it, both of
which were completed over 90 seconds
prior to your save. I use me, I also
merge. Have some consideration,
jackass.
\_ Reminds me of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns
offers the Union a keg of beer in exchange for
a new contract that drops their dental plan. |
| 2004/1/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11841 Activity:nil |
1/19 Dean loses it
http://www.machan.info/SA/psychodean.mp3
\_ psycho pension for Dean..
\_ put him on suicide watch |
| 2004/1/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:11829, category id '18005#14.5' has no name! , ] UID:11829 Activity:high |
1/19 Someone asked about how caucuses work, or about Iowa or something.
Here is a good explanation of the Iowa caucus that's going on
today. This system applies to both parties in Iowa when they do not
have an incumbent president.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/19/politics/campaigns/19CAUC.html?hp
\_ more info: http://www.caucus2004.org
\_ the clearest description I've read of what actually happens on
caucus night: http://slate.msn.com/id/2094034
\_ The NYT article was much clearer. This guy seems shocked at
the process. It's not nearly as arbitrary as he seems to
think.
\_ the NYT article only gave caucus history, and didn't explain
anything about actual methodology.
\_ So basically you need 15% of a precinct's attendees (or higher
in certain cases) to stand in your corner, or you don't get any
county delegates for that precint? Also, this means that at the
national primary, you can end up with split votes from Iowa for
different Democratic candidates?
\_ I think you get this for all primaries... each state has
a certain number of delegates that gets divvied up according
to each state's primary/caucus votes.
\_ so in other words, it's not like the Electoral College for
the vast majority of states, where you get "all or nothing"
toward one Presidential candidate?
\_ The all or nothing thing was borne from least resistance
politics. I wouldn't have any problem with the electoral
college if it were anything near representational, but the
bullshit of the all-or-nothing method makes me ill.
\_ yes. It's not like the Electoral College. |
| 2004/1/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29751 Activity:nil |
1/16 Strange. I merely asking how Caucus in Iowa is selected, yet that
question is censored. Can someone clarify on that? Thanks.
\_ you posted the question around 8pm yesterday. The motd censor
logged in around 3am, and decided to delete the 1/14 threads,
your thread, and the blueberry thread. Why? beats me. He's
got something against caucuses and blueberries, I guess.
\_ would someone tell me what make a person caucus? or
no one really knows? |
| 2004/1/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29749 Activity:nil 66%like:11783 |
1/14 So those mortar shells turned out not to be chemical weapons
at all, why didn't our triumphant anonymous motd post a retraction?
\_ you are a bitter liberal
\_ you are a sheep! -!op
\_ You're all sheeple!!! -- crazy guy on cable access
\_ O'Reilly's interview on ABC's Good Morning America (March 18, 2003)
"Here's, here's the bottom line on this for every American and
everybody in the world, nobody knows for sure, all right? We don't
know what he has. We think he has 8,500 liters of anthrax. But
let's see. But there's a doubt on both sides. And I said on my
program, if, if the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein
and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation,
and I will not trust the Bush Administration again, all right?
But I'm giving my government the benefit of the doubt. . . ."
.... now, do you recall when he apologized? What? You DON'T?
BECAUSE HE NEVER DID. AND NEITHER WILL THE REST OF THE ASSHOLE
REPUBLICANS.
\_ I wasn't aware O'Reilly posted on the motd. Why don't you
call his show to complain. I don't have to apologise for what
a media and entertainment figure has said. None of them speak
for me and I hope none of them speak for you.
\_ "Where the debate is, is why haven't we found huge stockpiles
and why haven't we found large caches of these weapons? Let's
let the Iraqi Survey Group complete its work." -Colin Powell
\_ Wouldn't it be funny if the survey group said "you know,
we couldn't find anything!" and Powell voluntarily took
the blame and resigned?
\_ there is no point to drill on this. we all know Bush just want
to get Saddam, and there is no rational reason behind it. God damn
I wish my tax dollar could be better spent.
\_ What's to retract? The original URLs all made it very clear that
the shells were being sent for testing. When are you going to
ask that Dean open his records from his time as Governor? What is
he hiding? My favorite so far is his energy commission which held
secret closed door meetings with leaders from the energy industry
from which he formed his energy policy... just like... Dick Cheney!
\_ Because the claims were touted as "look, WMDs may have been
found!" with a small clarification much later "oh they need to
do a little testing." In a case like that you should have the
the decency to correct yourself later.
\_ This is barely worth replying to since in your own statement
you make it clear it was "may have been" as if that's such a
strong statement. If the primary crime is saying "may have
been", there is no need for later clarification that testing
is required. The "may have been" directly implies testing
is required and I think it was nice of the journalists to
state the implied outright instead of making us guess. You
are so full of hatred that you'll take the most reasonable
and non-inflamatory statement such as "may have been" which
we all agree was in the same article as "requires more
testing" and turn it into some twisted bit of evil. You're
really lost and out in the hinterland on this one. There are
lots and lots of valid anti-Bush anti-Iraq-war things you
could go off on. This isn't one of them.
\_ The original point is valid. By caging your claims with
a unheeded qualifier you are confusing people. There have
been tons of stories about "WEAPONS FOUND" (hey remember
those Trailers Of Death?) all of which are touted loudly
as "see, he had them" with a small disclaimer near the
end. There is little or no retraction later by the same
touters when the stories are proven false. This means that
people who don't follow these stories closely get the
impression that weapons were actually found. After all
they keep reading stories about weapons being found,
and repatition DOES lead to people believing rumors.
Claiming otherwise is dishonest.
\_ "People who don't follow these stories closely" are not
my concern. They're the same people who don't vote or
don't care about any of this stuff anyway. The rest of
us are perfectly aware of what is going on. If you have
a beef with how the media reports the news, then you can
join the rest of us on the conservative side of the
country. We've been complaining for decades. Welcome
aboard!
\_ Last I checked Dean's energy policy didn't cost $150 billion.
\_ So it's ok because he was from a small state? So Cheney's
crime wasn't that he did the same thing as Dean, just that
it cost more? If Dean was from a big state or did this as
a member of the federal government then it would be bad? So
a bank robber who gets away with $20 at gun point is ok but
if the bank had more cash on hand that day and it was $1000
then it would be really terrible? Blind, blind, blind....
\_ There is no okay here. There is, however, better and
worse. Dean's energy policy not only didn't cost an
unfathomable $150b, it also did not do so by explicitly
lining the pockets of those who provided input. If you
cannot see how what the Bush admin did was worse than this,
you'll need to start carrying a white cane yourself, so's
we can see that you can't see.
\_ Again, your only defense is that Dean had a smaller
budget to fuck up. His process was *exactly* the same
and it is the *process* that Cheney was being attacked
for (and rightly so IMO). Dean should suffer the same
criticism. Once in office do you think he'll suddenly
change his style or continue as he did as governor?
\_ Right! Dean and Cheney both had suspect processes!
Both needed to fix those! Cheney's processes
resulted in outlandish profits for his croneys!
Dean's processes resulted in no outlandish profits!
Ergo: Cheney is worse than Dean!
\_ Ergo, Dean was dealing with a smaller budget but
his process was equally bad and as president will
be dealing with the exact same budget cheney is
dealing with and will fuck it up exactly the same
way. Ergo, indeed. My ass. Take off the
blinders and learn some basic logic, troll boy.
\_ Remember to vote for your lizard, so the other lizard
doesn't stay in office.
\_ take me to your lizard!
\_ Anything to change the subject. You forgot to mention
that Clinton got a blow job.
\_ And took millions in campaign contributions from
Chicoms for missiles technology.
\_ No facts! No anti-Clinton facts on the motd you hater! |
| 2004/1/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11755 Activity:low |
1/11 http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040112/D8011T080.html so if Dean was pro-war in the fall of 2002, how can anyone say they're voting for Dean because he opposes the war? [reposted after some self deluded person deleted it to avoid the truth] \_ Here's the only quote on the subject in the 2nd to last paragraph: "Kerry said that in fall 2002, Dean spoke in support of congressional legislation that would have given Bush the authority to use force in Iraq, so long as he notified Congress in advance." Dean has said repeatedly that he did not think the war was _justified_ based on the evidence at the time(March 2003). He asserted from the beginning of the war that there was not enough proof concerning the harboring of WMD by Saddam. Turns out he was correct. The fact that he supported giving the president the power to go to war is different from supporting the war. Dean supported giving Bush the power to go to war, but Bush abused the power. These are different issues, and Kerry and you are both disingenuous. \_ Wow that was an amazing piece of dodging and duck work! Sir, I salute you for your single minded determination to stick to your guns (so to speak) despite clear contrary evidence! Three cheers for selective blindness! \_ As if any piece of selective blindness could match the the article you posted. |
| 2004/1/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:11741 Activity:nil |
1/9 Examining Berkeley's liberal legacy
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/09/elec04.berkeley/index.html
\_ Go CNN! In other news, Sun still rising in the East tomorrow!
\_ cool it's about time. Nippon ichiban! BONZAI!!!! |
| 2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11687 Activity:nil |
1/6 I've changed my mind about Dean. I'm a conservative non-Republican
who was previously in favor of Dean because I figured he'd get
crushed (I still think this). I read the WSJ write up on him
yesterday and they explained at great length and detail how he's
really a silver spoon money bags pro-business north easterner with
a deep background in trading, business, and wall street. Right up
my alley as a candidate. So Bush vs. Dean is the ultimate win/win
for a non-(R) conservative like me. They had a shorter writeup on
Clark who would also be a win/win for people like me. So I say,
Go Bush! Go Dean! Go Clark! and in a pinch I'd be ok with Lieberman
if that's what happened.
\_ But what about his opposition to the war? This seems to me the
major issue of the campaign, and its why I support Dean.
\_ He's a governor. He didn't have to vote on it during a hot
political time when everyone else voted 'yes' on it. If he was
a senator or congressman I'm sure he would have. I think his
anti-war stance is a fraud created to set him apart from the
others and give him the 'outsider' look he needed. If you're
an outsider, (and as someone with no federal experience, he is),
you might as well play it up. --op
\_ I'm a fairly liberal voter, and I tend to agree with you. I think
a vote for Dean is about the same as a vote for McCain. I also
\- dean is pro-life? --psb
think Dean's the only candidate out there with any chance of
beating Bush, so Dean benefits from my utter hatred of his opponent.
It's not a great scenario for a social lib like me, but I'll take
what I can get.
\_ Why do you have 'utter hatred' for Bush? I never understood that
from you libs. I would have preferred a different President in
some ways when Clinton was in office but I didn't 'utterly hate'
him. I didn't 'utterly hate' Carter either although he was one
of the worst Presidents we've had, maybe ever. --op
\_ What was so bad about Carter? I ask not as a lib but as a
young'un.
\_ Bush is an arrogant, cocky, shit talking SOB who never
worked a day in his life, never studied hard and got
everything he ever wanted because of family connections.
I would dislike him in any case, but his politics make
me utterly disdain him. He is a reckless and dangerous
individual who should not be allowed to operate heavy
machinery, much less the country. -!op
\_ seconded. I'm giving more money to dean's campaign
than i've ever given to any campaign in my life, and
if the democrats fuck this up again, I'm leaving the country\
and training for the revolulution in northern canada.
I'm ready to go to war if needed to fight the bush types
of the world.
\_ Good riddance |
| 2004/1/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11653 Activity:nil |
1/2 Dean talks about race: http://csua.org/u/5em (and the article sounds pretty pro-Dean) \_ republicans get poor white southerners to vote against their economic interests primarily by appealing to racism. Dean understands this better than the other leading candidates, and has a better chance of trying to battle this strategy than they do. \_ troll? The irony here is this behavior is exactly why you, Dean and the Dems are doomed in the South. Read Zell Millers new book. The South was solidly Democrat until the late 70s, BTW. \_ troll? The irony here is this exactly why you, Dean \_ I like the part where ihe meantions that it was wierd to be the only white guy in a romm of black guys. Of course that's wierd. But you get used to it. I spent 2 years in a country full of Korean guys. It was only wierd for the first 2 minutes. and the Dems are doomed in the South. Read Zell Millers new book. The South was solidly Democrat until the late 70s, BTW. \_ Th3 D0ct0r 15 1n! |
| 2003/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11627 Activity:nil |
12/30 Special counsel to investigate Plame leak; Ashcroft recuses himself
from the investigation. I hear the other shoe dropping.
http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?ID=3840566&p1=0
\_ and if he didnt remove himself you'd be screaming he's hiding
something. it must be nice to think you're right and the other
guy is the Devil no matter what he does.
\_ He should have done it on day one, but better late
than never. -!op |
| 2003/12/27 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11598 Activity:nil |
12/26 The First Amendment died earlier this month.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046839/posts?page=1,50
\_ What, you missed this? Yes, this ruling by the SCOTUS was a direct
restraint of political speech. It cuts to the heart of the 1st
Amendment.
\_ It took me a while to come around on this but I figured out a while
ago that this is bullshit and the SC was wrong. I originally
thought it was a good idea but no longer. |
| 2003/12/23 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Reference/Tax] UID:11567 Activity:kinda low |
12/22 The UN Tax?
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11424
\_ Except for the gratuitous slap at Dean, this is pretty amusing.
\_ look at the other articles on the site. at least a third of
them are bullshit "news" stories primarily focused on why Dean
is part of some evil conspiracy or another.
here's a direct quote from another article on the site
"Any of these candidates who hesitates in even the tiniest way to
declare unwavering support for our Commander-in-Chief in the
face of another 9-11 terrorist attack will have demonstrated an
unfitness and unworthiness ever to be President."
\_ "...he would repeal the Bush tax cuts -- even though this would
boost the average family.s tax burden by nearly $2,000."
When did the richest 2% of our population become the average
family?
\_ Must we go through this one again? Nevermind, just go back and
retake Math P. Thanks, troll.
\_ Go for it, explain to me what the average family makes,
and how much the Bush tax cuts saved this imaginary family.
If it's $2,000 or so, I'll post my apology. If not, I want
you to post yours. |
| 2003/12/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:11541 Activity:moderate |
12/19 Regarding the neocon movement, its impetus, its icons, and its
critics. http://csua.org/u/5bz
\_ Eh, the "neocon" movement is nothing more than the Democrats (as
opposed to liberals) playing partisan politics--labeling something
other than their own belief with a name similar to "neonazi".
\_ neocon is what they called themselves. try again.
\_ And where would I find an example of that please?
\_ http://csua.org/u/5c3
\_ "neo" suggests renewal or revival, as in neo-romanticism,
neo-classical, etc. It applies to something already defunct,
as in neo-nazi. The neocons want to "diss" the (traditional)
conservatives, whom they regard as soft and impotent even
though they are very much alive (in the wilderness of power).
\_ the neocons are for the neocons. they aren't right or left.
conservatives, whom they regard as soft and impotent.
\_ What is the csua login for salon?
\_ login: watchThe
password: damnCommercial
\_ Rather than being sarcastic, you could have signed up an
actual account, and I would thank you on behalf of a grateful
motd.
\_ Subscriptions are $18 or $30/year.
\_ Ask what you can do for the motd, not the reverse.
\_ Getting a paid Salon subscription for the motd would
password: damnCommercial
\_ Subscriptions are $18 or $30/year.
not be helping anyone. Not even Salon. |
| 2003/12/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11538 Activity:high |
12/19 Howard Dean blames flu epidemic on Bush. haha
\_ Well Reagan did create AIDS
\_ that's right, I forgot. he sat in a lab and his vagina had
this violent little orgasm. thanks for reminding me,
\_ that's right, I forgot. he sat in a lab and engineered
dumbshit.
\_ Isn't that his "mangina"?
this virulent little organism. thanks for reminding me,
dumbshit.
\_ Isn't that his "mangina"?
\_ Shakes, he doesnt even have an angina.
\_ URL? |
| 2003/12/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11512 Activity:nil |
12/18 So if it wasn't for your boy Dean spoiling the election, my man,
Ralph would have a much better chance in '04. Here's some background
on your guy. Read it and weep while you suffer through 4 more years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9661-2003Dec17?language=printer
\_ Ralph's a grumpy old man that should pass the reigns if he wants
the greens to do anything.
\_ Hi, Republican Troll. The Greens really don't understand the
meaning of the word coalition. The Republicans have their own
loonies, the Christian Right. They understand coalition. They
unite with their party and pick their battles, and guess what?
They're winning. They control the Republican party, they hold
the White House and much of Congress, they are gaining ground in
the courts and they control school boards across the nation -
enabling them to subtly indoctrinate the next generation.
The biggest problem with the left, since the very dawn of the
modern age, is its tendency towards internecine warfare and
self annihilation. Ideological purity is a fool's game.
The war is won not with revolutions but with gradual change.
\_ Why does it surprise you that at a liberal school like Berkeley
there might be a single Green posting on the motd? Grow up.
\_ "Read it and weep"? I thought it made him look pretty good.
\_ I love how the story starts out with the 9/11 warnings crap:
From above: http://csua.org/u/5b9
also: http://csua.org/u/5bj
\_ That's the most they can dig up? To most of those "examples", they
quote a reasonable explanation from the Dean camp. What a snore.
One thing that's true is Kerry does nothing now but attack Dean.
\_ Does this usually happen with all prez primaries? Or is the
anti-dean vitriol worse than usual? -newbie to primary process
\_ I'm not very old or anything, but I can't remember a primary
race ever being quite like this. There are a more candidates
who have or had a real chance. The Kerry/Dean animosity is
probably highest since they're both New England, and Kerry
thought he had that in the bag before Dean rose up. |
| 2003/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11397 Activity:nil |
12/9 Supremes uphold McCain-Feingold campaign finance law 5-4
http://tinyurl.com/ymsn (nytimes link, http://csua.org/u was unresponsive) |
| 2003/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11386 Activity:high |
12/9 Nice one. Enter "President 2004" into google, and hit "I'm feeling
lucky."
\_ The above debate resolved: At the moment, among
1. http://www.google.com/search?q=president%202004&start=0 , and
2. http://www2.google.com/search?q=president%202004&start=0 ,
#1 yields Kucinich while #2 yields Dean as top hit. This means that
Dean's rank rose recently and hasn't been propagated to the main
db yet. This is as of 12:48am 12/10. -alexf
\_ Does this change every week?
\_ I think it was Dennis Kucinich until a few days ago.
The Dean people googlebombed it very quickly.
\_ Really? I still got Kucinich.
\_ Odd, I got Dean. Is it because I have my language
preference set to "Swedish Chef?"
\_ I even got Kucinich from soda (via lynx). I think
the Swedish Chef must be it.
\_ Svedeesh Cheffs fur Deun!
Bork Bork Bork!
\_ I thought borking only occurred under Republican
presidents.
\_ Nope. Set it to 'English' on my browser and
the same thing happened: Dean. Could it be
because I'm using Mozilla?
\_ If I do president-2004 I get Dean. If I just type
"president 2004" with no quotes it's Kucinichifich
\_ I get kucinich FWIW -nivra
\_ Enter "miserable failure" into Google and hit "I'm feeling lucky"
\_ http://www.google.com/preferences?hl=xx-hacker |
| 2003/12/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29700 Activity:nil |
12/8 chew on this, joe!
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/08/politics/08CND-GORE.html?hp |
| 2003/12/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11377 Activity:kinda low |
12/9 I'm a registered democrat. And I think Dean or whoever gets nominated
will lose in 2004. Our best hope for a comeback is Hillary in 2008.
I want the Clinton days back!
\_ the only hope for the survival of the democratic party is for
new people to join and push aside the libermann-type democrats
who have an appeasment policy toward republicans, and become more
like them every election cycle. Dean brings new people into
the democratic party(i just registered democrat for the first
time today, *only* because of dean), who can not only revitalize
the democratic party in general, but who may well beat bush.
\_ The impending American divide.
\_ please elaborate
\_ You're a Republican troll. Dean is the real thing, the Clintons are
plastic.
\_ Dean blows and he will lose if he runs. I don't want to see
Bush win. Why can't the Dems ever find a good candidate? Did
they just get lucky with Bill?
\_ Oh, he 'blows.' What an insightful analysis.
\_ I'll type up a document and post it to the motd. Not.
\_ That's ok, your opinion holds no water based on how
much you seem to love Bill, a man who was really good
for Bill Clinton but probably put the nails in the coffin
for the Democratic party. Dean is a real person with
a good platform. Do you think he 'blows' because he's
against the war?
\_ It has nothing to do with his position on the war, but
instead his record in Vermont, his stated platform,
his waffling on the Middle East, and his stupid
flag comment.
\_ His record in Vermont is commendable. His platform
is cohesive. He has not waffled on the Middle
East at all - in fact, he's the only politician
of note that has anything resembling a clear
position other than GWB. And the flag comment
was great. Anything else?
\_ You're a tool. Go look at what he did in
Vermont, not what he *says* he did. His
platform is not consistent with his claim
of being fiscal conservative and neither
is his opposition to free trade. He has
indeed waffled on whether support to Israel
should continue. The flag comment was offensive
and even his fellow Dems thought so. He will
not win middle-America's vote and so he will
lose just like Gore even if people in CA and
NY like him.
\_ *laugh* I love how you make these
predictions based upon a few snide opinions
about things that no one really cares about.
The truth is that the Democratic nominee can
lose the entire South and still win by only
winning *one* more state than Gore did.
Remember, Gore lost New Hampshire. Dean has
a stunning organization that represents a
whole new way of doing things. The last
two elections, done the old way, have been
a total disaster for the Democrats. I'll
enjoy making fun of you in November, almost
as much as I'll enjoy Bush losing.
\_ Bush losing would be great, but I'm
not even sure Dean will win the Dem
nomination.
\_ He will. He's the only one running
a risky, fiery campaign, and that's
a risky, firey campaign, and that's
the only chance the Democrats have
to win those swing states. They've
gotta take risks, because the number
of sure-fire Democrat states is less
than the number of sure-fire Republican
states. |
| 2003/12/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11371 Activity:high |
12/9 How come Clark didn't gain any momentum? I thought people would like
him in the MidWest and South, where they are not liberal enough to
support someone like the ex-Governor of Vermont.
\_ Who, Dean? The liberal who's all for guns?
\_ Clark joined late, and when he did join he didn't say anything to
stand out. "Hi I'm Clark, I was a general so vote for me". If Dean
wasn't in the race, I think Clark could have beaten Kerry.
\_ i'm not sure why you're using the past tense. Clark *is*
ahead of kerry in the polls, and the earliest primaries
are still a couple months away. |
| 2003/12/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11361 Activity:nil |
12/8 Gore endorses Dean: http://tinyurl.com/ydad (sfgate.com) |
| 2003/12/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:11344 Activity:nil |
12/7 Most people probably already know this, but just in case for those
who are not aware of it..
http://www.sco.com/copyright
\_ Do you know how many of the senators and representatives now
in the presidential race stood up against the DMCA or the
copyright extension act? none. not kucinich, not kerry,
not liebermann, not gebhart. no one from either party stood
up against this. the only way we're going to beat these
evil cocksuckers is by becoming as effective a lobby as the
media moguls. i'll bet a million nerds who make about 100k/year
can beat a dozen or so media moguls in a out and out brawl
to buy congressmen.
\_ and i'll bet 5 million nerds who make 100k/year won't be
as successful buying congressman than a few corporations
that rake in billions every year.
\_ Interesting. But I don't see any logical basis for his assertion
the GPL itself is unconstitutional/illegal.
\_ I didn't think so neither. But it's just my personal opinion.
An somewhat related issue: copyright suppose to be a temperary
protection. Yet, the current copyright last just couple years
short of life expentacy of Average Americans, thus, for pratical
purposes, permanent. In this regard, our current copyright law
can be argued as unconsitutional itself. :p
\_ I agree with that. It's clear congress was acting in the
interest of Disney rather than the public with that extension
although I'm not sure it's unconstitutional. But what I meant
was, the guy says GPL is unconstitutional but doesn't directly
say why. He just blathers about whether there should be copy-
rights, but GPL uses copyrights.
\_ lessig argues on his blog that the copyright extension
could possibly be considered unconstitutional because
it is not in the best interests of promoting the "progress
of science and the useful arts," as mandated by the
constitution.
http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/001611.shtml#001611
of course, i'm not an expert on the constition, or
constitutional law, but Lessig sure is.
\_ An important part of his argument regarded retroactive
extensions-- the Constitution explicitly mentions
'limited times' for copyright, but by extending the
term for 20 years every 20 years, Congress is creating
a regime of perpetual copyright.
\- i tried to get through this but it was so stupid i
couldnt do it. it's an interesting question where did
the letter come from, is this to change the topic etc. --psb
\_ it's trying to gather up substance behind what it's saying
by relying on eldred. but eldred wasn't even a software case. |
| 2003/11/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:11214 Activity:nil |
11/24 battlestar galactica is back
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/about/background/index.html
\_ cyborg Cylons!?! WTF?! Boycott! Go buy the DVD box set
instead - a much better investment in time.
\_ I think it is good that Starbuck is going to be a girl.
I think that character will play better as a female.
That being said, and although i will certainly be tuning in,
I don't really have much hope. The second main guy they talk
about in that link is from the ST_TNG_ and _DS9_ and those
shows both mostly sucked ass. Also any time someone in SF
talks about how it is really all about the characters, their
show sucks. (of course, it is a small sample size of shows
that all suck. I don't understand how two of the best shows
\_ [added at the top because the rest of the replies are OT]
SciFi has a real hit (Dune, Children of Dune) and miss (every-
thing else) ratio with their original material. BG could go
either way. As for ST:TNG and DS9, your opinion is noted and
scoffed at, but basing your hopes for BG on the inclusion of
a guy who did some "co-writing" and producing on the other
shows makes no sense; the entire ST franchise is under the
thumb of the domineering and autocratic Rick Berman. BG
will be the first time we get to see Moore with full creative
license. Let's see how badly he mangles the pilot and _then_
pillory him.
\_ Well, I can't think of anyone in the industry that I
despise like i despise Rick Berman, so I am willing to
put all the blame on him. My fingers are now crossed.
\_ Right on. Now, when it turns out to be a steaming
pile, I'll be glad to commiserate with you right here.
\_ You liked children of dune?
\_ It was flawed, but yes, I liked it.
\_ Troll/flamefest Below:
---------------------------------------------------------------
\_ Anyone who uses the phrase "sucked ass" in a serious way
can't be worth listening to. I knew you were an idiot when
you said Starbuck should be female but didn't truly understand
until you were sucking ass.
\_ Wow. You managed to derail anything remotely like conversation
about the topic. You get the troller-of-the-week cookie!
\_ I bow before the other motd masters of destruction. I am
but a butterfly before their hammer.
\_ Starbuck acted like a female anyway, might as well make him
one and give me something to look at.
\_ STOP OVERWRITING OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS
\_ bite me, I didn't.
\_ yes, you did. But apparently, you're too clueless
to notice that a file has changed since you opened
it in your editor.
\_ because I used 'diff' incorrectly? bite me.
\_ Wow. You're astoundingly closed minded. A swear word mixed
in with a sentence does not invalidate the thoughts or
intellect of the poster. It might not necessarily demonstrate
good socialization or courtesy, but it has absolutely nothing
to do with intelligence. Let me put it this way: Go away you
sanctimonious twit. Have a nice day.
\_ Dear Moron, perhaps you failed basic reading comprehension,
or maybe you were simply born with a low IQ or other mental
defect so I shall explain to you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. The
op made 2 statements. I responded to both. I made it
clear that the "swear word" was not my primary concern but
was merely an indication of ordinary idiocy. I presented
my reason for the belief in the next sentence. In the
future I shall w-r-i-t-e m-u-c-h s-l-o-w-e-r for you.
Please die and have a nice day.
\_ cf, 'sanctimonius twit' etc. Have a nice day.
\_ Apparently your definition of idiocy is different
from mine. You're a christian republican sysadmin,
aren't you?
\_ You forgot "white, fat, racist, rich, old, uncool,
greasy, stupid, uneducated, jewish, southern hick"
in your ad hominen.
\_ Hey, stop insulting us christian republican
sysadmins (white, fat, or otherwise).
\_ Why not? They are the most easily baited, and
they make up most of the motd population.
\_ left out again... --black muslim green poet |
| 2003/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11196 Activity:high 54%like:11190 |
11/21 Here's the "Dean is a draft dodger" link. From the NYT:
http://tinyurl.com/w3sa
\_ i'm confused as to how this is ammunition for critics in a race
against W.
\_ Right now, Dean is in a race against Clark and Kerry, not Bush.
\_ In the current climate, it's important to look strong on defense.
Bush has shown this in his current term, whereas the Dems have to
find some other way to show it. Dean as a governor doesn't have
any national defense or foreign policy experience, so he could
lean on a military record--if he had one. Frankly, I don't care
much about what any of the candidates did 30 years ago (that is,
unless they killed a woman in their car or something).
\_ So you're not voting for Ted Kennedy, huh?
\_ Personally, I don't see dodging the draft as all that big a
deal, heck, my dad did it. It only bugs me when guys who
have never served send troops into some fool place we have
no reason to be in, like Somalia, but that bugs me regaudless.
\_ Right, because W is such an exemplary example.
no reason to be in, like Somalia. |
| 2003/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11190 Activity:nil 54%like:11196 |
11/21 Here's the "Dean is a draft dodger" link. From the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22DRAF.html?ex=1070082000&en=a4240500ff458bcb&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
\_ i'm confused as to how this is ammunition for critics in a race
against W.
\_ Right now, Dean is in a race against Clark and Kerry, not Bush.
\_ In the current climate, it's important to look strong on defense.
Bush has shown this in his current term, whereas the Dems have to
find some other way to show it. Dean as a governor doesn't have
any national defense or foreign policy experience, so he could
lean on a military record--if he had one. Frankly, I don't care
much about what any of the candidates did 30 years ago (that is,
unless they killed a woman in their car or something). |
| 2003/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11186 Activity:nil |
11/21 Uh oh, here come the Dean Draft Dodger headlines... Look out!
Actually nevermind, being a draft dodger didn't hurt the GW2 or
Clinton. Sigh.... Nader'04 for the people and environment!
Restored. Why are you trying to censor the real left?
\_ The real left? Don't make me laugh, Mr. Motd COINTELPRO.
\_ What's more left in this country than Nader? Certainly not the
sellout Democrats who voted for war on Iraq.
\_ Hey, Because of Nader, Bush won the presidency. Am I going to
fuel his personal glory ? probably not. We got more important
thing to do, i.e. get Bush out of office
\_ Hey, Because of Gore, Bush won the presidency. Am I going to
fuel his personal glory ? probably not. We got more important
thing to do, i.e. get Bush out of office. If Gore hadn't run
then Nader surely would have won. Gore running made Bush win.
Keep voting for the pseudo-left. I'm voting for the real thing. |
| 2003/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11177 Activity:nil |
11/21 if Nader runs in 04, how many of you would be willing to buy a
t-shirt that says "fuck you ralph nader!" on it?
\_ NADER '04! GO RALPHIE GO! SHOW THEM SELLOUTS!
-- conservative
\_ bitter dems can't stand a real party for the left. you guys
really are sellouts and we're going to keep running candidates
until you're gone. it'll be green vs. republicans with no
room left for the democrats. it wouldn't be the first time in
this country a party was formed... or died.
\_ go go national polarization! |
| 2003/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11077 Activity:moderate |
11/14 Posted on slashdot yesterday, Gore Vidal interview.
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/52/features-cooper.php
\_ [Franklin:] I am in favor of this Constitution, as flawed as it is,
because we need good government and we need it fast. But then,
Franklin said, it will fail, as all such constitutions have in
the past, because of the essential corruption of the people. He
pointed his finger at all the American people. And when the people
become so corrupt, he said, we will find it is not a republic that
they want but rather despotism government suitable for such a
people.
\_ In other words, we get the government we deserve. |
| 2003/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11064 Activity:nil |
11/13 http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20031113.shtml This is so great! Ann Coulter talking action figures for sale! God damn, I love the net! You can find anything! |
| 2003/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11026 Activity:kinda low |
11/11 Dean is electable:
http://csua.org/u/4yi
\_ ...and note that Bob Graham is now out of the race, leaving
Florida up for grabs.
\_ Shut your piehole. It is better to let the Republicans gloat
about how they are going to beat Dean in a landslide. -AML
\_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern...
esp. with his untold millions in funds. [formatd]
\_ Perhaps I was unclear. If the Republican get worried,
they will be able to raise more money from their base. -AMC
\_ Gloat? Our gloating has zero effect on the election. We gloat
because it amuses us to see you flail around desperately
worshipping a lost cause. 4 more years, baby!
\_ Its going to give me great pleasure to taunt you a second
time when Bush loses.
\_ Like the way you taunted me after Davis got recalled and
after the way you taunted me after Arnold won and the way
you taunted me when the two (R) candidates in a very left
wing state got over 2/3rds the votes, and the way you
taunted me when Bush got elected the first time and the way
you taunted me when Clinton got impeached and the way you
taunted me when the (R) took control of all branches of the
government and the way you taunted oh nevermind. You just
keep at that bong and keep taunting me.
\_ anyone care to comment on this?
"Ironically, if he does get the nomination, Howard Dean's
biggest problem will be Bill and Hillary's attempts to
subvert his candidacy. They simply cannot afford to have
another Democrat in the White House, in short, if Howard Dean
is elected President, Hillary never will be. So, the Clinton's
will do whatever they must to make sure that doesn't happen."
\_ The tinfoil hat brigade always comes out in force whenever
the name "Clinton" is invoked, like Pavlov's dogs salivating
at the sound of a bell.
\_ Uh, hey genius, why do you think Clark is in there?
\_ Erm. Maybe because he wants to be president? Oh right,
Clinton is the All-Powerful Daemon who rules from the
center of the Earth in his Plot to convert America to
Homosexuality, I forgot. He made Clark do it with his
special Clinton Powers.
\_ Thank you. That was the best post I've read in
weeks.
\_ Hey genius, it's public knowledge he's the Clinton
Candidate. It's not some dark evil secret. If you
were more well read and less partisan you'd know that.
\_ I'm suprised the tinfoil hat crowd hasn't made a bigger
deal of the fact that Kerry was a Skull. If he wins the
nomination it'll be Skull vs. Skull.
\_ Because Kerry is a Dem so it's ok.
\_ As an aside to the Skull talk, my aunt was in the same
private high school class as George W. Bush. She said
he was the guy who was always puking in the corner at
parties.
\_ Wow! That's totally news the rest of us didn't know
about 4 years ago when he first ran for office! You
rock! Thanks for the timely report! /sarcasm
\_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern... esp.
with his untold millions in funds. |
| 2003/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign] UID:11018 Activity:nil |
11/10 Dances with Wolves on now at the History Channel. Find out why
the US Government/Foreign policy is so great.
\_ Trying to be sarcastic? Here's the synopsis from Roger Ebert
"The dominant American culture was nearsighted, incurious and
racist, and saw the Indians as a race of ignorant, thieving
savages, fit to be shot on sight. Such attitudes survived until
so recently in our society - just look at the B Westerns of the
1940s - that we can only imagine how much worse they were 100
years ago. -Roger Ebert"
http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1990/11/576465.html
\_ Hey Kid, it's a movie. Did you think Water World was based on
fact, too? The Postman? There were lots of fucked up things the
US government did to the indians and still does but DwW has nothing
to do with it and isn't a history lesson. Back to the troll pits
with you, boy-o!
\_ water world ruled. i don't care about this stupid dances with
wolves troll, but if you talk shit about water world you and
me are going to tangle. |
| 2003/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:11012 Activity:high |
11/10 http://csua.org/u/4y1 GO RALPH! GO! RALPH'04! Sock it to 'em baby! No Dean-lite! \_ I guess you want more attacks on American soil. \_ There's not a single bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is working like a charm \_ First of all, learn to shorten your URLs. I have done it for you this time. Remember this in the future, it makes your trolls slightly more credible. \_ Sorry, but it's not a troll. 300,000 democrats crossed over and y'all bitch out my guy for having the nerve to enter the race. This is still a democratic republic the last i checked. \_ So you think we're better off with Bush, huh? \_ I think BushGore is the same person. If it can't be the Real Thing then fuck it. I refuse to vote for the alternate, not lesser, evil. It is exactly that sort of non-thinking that gets us the same sort of loser in office every 4 years. \_ I agree! GO NADER GO! RALPH'04! -- conservative \_ Well that's just dumb. Now, granted, Al Gore wasn't a very good candidate. Lacked charisma. But it's pretty obvious that he had differences from Bush. Even if they said the same thing before the election, you could tell. This is a democracy, yes. Which is why Nader cannot win, he is simply too far left to appeal to enough people. He wouldn't win the dem nomination either. So forget it. \_ Your own words, "Even if they said the same thing before the election, you could tell" [they were different]. WTF? That's just plain stupid. GO GREEN! We're taking the SF mayor and after the governator fails we're taking CA and then the country. The reason people don't vote Green is because they believe they can't win, not because they don't like Green politics, platforms and Green philosophy. --Nader'04! \_ hah, are you for real? what I meant was that even if they might sound pretty similar in the useless debates they had, they were different. Do you really think that a Gore presidency would have been no different? The electoral laws in this country are set up for 2 parties. |
| 2003/11/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:10904, category id '18005#5.8925' has no name! , ] UID:10904 Activity:low |
11/1 Poor Dean. Too liberal. Too elite. Too special for the rest of us
poor dumb shlobs to understand your greatness. We hardly knew you
but you sure as hell knew nothing about anyone else:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/11/01/build/nation/67-deancomments.inc
\_ Do you seriously think Bush is doing a good job?
\_ Yes. On most things. I wouldn't be 100% happy with anyone but
myself but I don't have time to run the country so I'll settle
for the current administration.
\_ It's Bill Bradley all over again, minus the progressive attitude.
\_ You're just bringing him down cuz you're scared of him.
\_ No, I'm showing you ultra leftists you're backing a loser. He
understands he's too far left but has no fucking clue how to
appeal to the very people he's insulting. Bring on this dog
and we'll have 4 more years!
\_ Do you think guys with confederate flags in the back of
their pickups find this insulting? Do you even know anyone
like that?
\_ Do you even understand who he's bashing? You don't. |
| 2003/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast] UID:10861 Activity:nil |
10/29 Here it is. Dean in '04. No one cares about anything but the royal
mess we're making out the Middle East:
http://csua.org/u/4ue
\_ Dream on. It's about the economy, stupid.
\_ Hey, you know what? Fuck you.
I feel so much better now. Thanks.
\_ Yeah, it is: "And despite a quicker pace of recovery, 41,000
jobs were lost in the third quarter to bring the number of jobs
lost since President Bush took office to 2.6 million."
(Reuters) |
| 2003/10/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10799 Activity:very high |
10/25 Republicans LOSE again:
link:csua.org/u/4sx
\_ Hmm, control all 3 branches of government, no electable minority
party candidate emerging from the 9 dwarves for 2004, got bill &
\_ wow, what news do you read? you're in a dreamworld if you
think dean/clark/kerry aren't "electable". read anything
but hard right opinion lately?
\_ I'll wager $1000 that none of them get elected as
President in 2004. Are you up to it? -williamc
\_ What kind of odds will you give me? http://tradesports.com will
give me 60/40, can you match it? -ausman
hillary lurking about screwing up the party for their own gain,
and just lost the governorship of the largest state to an actor
in an election where the majority party split their votes among
two candidates but still won. If that's what it's like to be a
loser I can't imagine how much better winning feels. Link unread
because it's not worth the cut n paste effort to read a context
free url. At least tell us what's there, otherwise you just look
like a partisan whiney little bitch.
\_ Uhm. Pot, Kettle, Black.
\_ I think the emphasis was on WHINEY LITTLE BITCH,
not partisan.
\_ I think the emphasis was on the whole phrase. Nice
try.
\_ right, and I'm sure that from 1992 to 2000 the
above partisan was totally respectful to the
President and never whined once. People like that
on both sides are useless.
\_ Heh. Clinton doesn't deserve respect. The man
is slime.
\_ Clinton didn't sell a war on false pretexts or
ignore his staff blowing the cover on a
CIA agent, but he got a blowjob. What are
your priorities? Sheesh.
\_ Dude, did you listen to his speech? What
false pretexts? Do you KNOW iraq has no
WMD? Tell us how? You can be rich!
\_ What, by reading the news? Get serious.
\_ I repeat, how do you know? How do
the reporters know?
\_ Ah. So this is a NHSG existential
answer, "No, dude! You totally
3am-talking-with-my-stoned
roomates thing. I guess the right
like a railroad spike!"
answer is, "No, dude! You totally
can't KNOW anything! Not unless
it gets jammed through your head
like a railroad spike!" Of
course, as a basis for a voting
adult to make real-world decisions
it's completely assinine.
\_ See, this is what I don't get.
3 billion dollars of Hussein's
money magically slips through
American fingers and ends up
in Syrian banks, and no one
thinks it's strange. How
much easier do you think it
would be to slip some key
laboratory equipment or
ampules out of the country?
\_ We didn't go to war over
a few ampules. Money can
be wired. 10000L of nerve
agent cannot.
\_ You really think they
wired those 3 billion
to Syria? Are you
fucking nuts?
\_ By paying attention in class?
\_ Clinton >> Bush. -independent
\_ viewing a link is harder than ranting for 10-12 lines on the
motd? |
| 2003/10/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10677 Activity:nil |
10/16 " campaign that sent hundreds of identical letters to hometown
newspapers promoting soldiers' rebuilding efforts in Iraq."
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031015/frontpage/124463.shtml
\_ Old news, son. Increase your refresh rates.
\_ where've you been? this is last week's news. |
| 2003/10/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10546 Activity:nil |
10/8 http://csua.org/u/4nt Patroit Act made Watergate legal \_ Why use a plumber when you can use the FBI? \_ boy, you would think this would be bigger news. One would also think the FBI would be quick to defend themsleves and at least MAKE UP some charge against the mayor. "Hey, he's black, so we are pretty sure he's a cocaine addict". It looks very bad that they can't even say why the bug is there. |
| 2003/10/8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29568 Activity:high |
10/7 I'm glad to see so many maoderates and conservatives out there voting
today. I can vote my principles without seeing a slime like Davis or
Cruz be governor. Nader in '04!
\_ You should always vote your principles. If you don't then who will?
\_ almost everyone who voted for any of the top three candidates
probably voted for `least damage`, not for their principles...
\_ That means that 80% (or something) of voters could've put
their guy in office, but didn't. That's what they get.
\_ Voting by principle is for suckers!!1! I voted for the GR0P3R!1
\_ heh |
| 2003/10/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10502 Activity:nil |
10/7 The election is today!!!!!
\_ If you lost your sample ballot, and think your polling place may
have changed, look it up here: http://smartvoter.org/2003/10/07/ca
Also, if you changed your registration recently and don't show up
on their list, you can cast a provisional ballot which will be
verified by the registrar. --scotsman
\_ Note that you should make an effort to be in your county when
using a provisional ballot. Otherwise.... |
| 2003/10/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10481 Activity:high |
10/5 Is there any side by side comparison of Clark vs. Dean out there?
\_ Clark is going to be on cspan on monday night.
\_ Not sure but I don't get why Dean is "unelectable" when he is
actually more conservative than Clark...
\_ Because he's an ultra leftist who will lose all the moderates
and others who love this country.
\_ Ultra leftist? You're either joking, incredibly stupid, or
a troll. Given the "love this country" I'm betting you're
a troll.
\_ I thought by definition all libs (commies) WERE
trolls.
\_ Dean? Jesus Christ, man, have you *read* his manifesto?
The guy makes Stalin and Mao look moderate. I'm not a
troll. I'm more educated and well read than you are.
That makes you the ignorant one. Go read and then come
back here without that faulty troll detector firing off
left and right.
\_ Project Vote Smart will have the answers in a while:
http://csua.org/u/4me
\_ It's a valid point. (tm)
\_ Don't you know? Bill Clinton is a liberal, Hillary Clinton
is a ultra-leftist and anyone to the left of her is an
American hating socialist or a Communist. Just ask
Ann Coulter.
\_ You trying to say Hillary isn't an ultra leftist?
\_ Dean is unelectable because his knowledge of football is weak.
\_ http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/17/clark
\_ this article has nothing about policy. It's a history of the
dem campaign so far, and a little bio of Clark. It doesn't
compare the two at all. -nivra
\_ http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/17/clark
compare the two at all. -nivra
\_ But it 's from salon, a quality source of unbiased info!
\_ my question is, what is so special about Clark? Dean at least
has *SOME* sort of political record, while Clark, beside being
a 4-star general, offers nothing on the table for us to look at.
\_ How many Rhodes scholars from Arkansas have run against a Bush
and lost?
\_ Heh, send up the guy who almost started WW3. He isn't even
a registered Dem and you're drooling over him. Anything to
win power, eh?
\_ More like anything to get that jackass Bush out of office.
\_ Oh my, we never learn, do we? Always trying to choose
the lesser evil? Why not vote for someone good?
and lost?
a registered Dem and you're drooling over him. Anything to
win power, eh?
\_ the paradox: he would be President thereby
disqualifies himself as a worthy candidate. we
need a Cincinnatus.
\_ What makes one special? I think a 4 star general is something
special. Comparisons to Ike don't add up, but there's a lot to
say about someone who has a lot of experience in foreign affairs
He referred to the Philadelphia "Jets".
\_ http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/17/clark
(he was also nato supreme commander).
(he was also nato supreme commander).
\_ How many wars did NATO fight? And his record as NSC wasn't
so hot. Jimmy Carter was President of the United States of
America and that alone wasn't cause enough to elect him to
the role in 1980. He had more experience, therefore he
should have been elected, yes? Same thing in 1992 with Bush.
\_ Well...it's Florida...how about Mississippi? It's almost as
close. Or Alabama.
\_ "We'll try to stay cool and calm
when Alabama gets the bomb!"
\_ "Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defending the
homeland." -GWB There Bush formally said it. Israel has a green
light to do whatever it feels like and not feel bound by
the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any other
pesky constraints. Watch them nuke Damascus next. |
| 2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10462 Activity:nil |
10/3 Conservatives: read your hero's speech:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031003-4.html
Can you honestly respect that? He talks as if his audience is a bunch
of children. The guy is just bizarre.
\_ I agree that his public speaking is insultingly stupid. Just
remember: Bush is inarticulate, but he is not stupid -- he
deliberately plays to the dumber segment of the public's desire
not to feel inadequate. Welcome to anti-intellectualism in
today's America.
\_ you think he's smart enough to have a strategy like that?
i think that appearances aren't deceiving in this case. it's
easier for him to just act like himself than act like a smart
person playing dumb, even if the net effect is about the same.
\_ I don't believe he is capable of actually being intellectual,
at least he's never demonstrated any high-level abilities. But
he does have a kind of instinctive cunning, and people skills.
\_ I'm not sure he can really help it. How does a child talk to other
children? Anyway, I think he's more stupid than bizarre.
\_ "There is no air raids on Air Force One" this guy went to fucking
Harvard? Sheeet.
\_ No, he went to Yale, get it right. Harvard >>> Yale. For many
reasons.
\_ and harvard. for MBA at least. note that Dean, Kerry,
and Liebermann also went to Yale.
\_ But they're all leftist heros so that's good!
\_ Dean and Kerry going to Yale doesn't invalidate the
fact that Harvard >>> Yale. And who the fuck cares
about Liebermann anyway?
\_ Yeah, he's just some Jew, right? Albeit, a Jew with
about the same poll numbers as Dean and twice Kerry,
but a Jew just the same.
\_ He has politically outmaneuvered the Dems and other detractors
repeatedly.
If he wasn't so effective you would not be having such a hissy
fit. He's ethical (for a politician), has a vision and principles.
He understands he's not an intellectual. He has
leadership qualities, is not an egomaniac like Clinton / Gore,
and is comfotable enough to delegate to people more capable to
him. His foreign policy has been impecabble, too bad he's
such a lib demestically. We have had massive increases in
government spending - isn't this what you want??? You libs should
be full of glee with the increases in gov't.
\_ Unfortunately, this is too true. His domestic policy sucks. His
very first act was to raise *every* budget in the entire federal
government by 4%, minimum. Some went higher. We should be
slashing stupid wasteful governmeny budgets, not fluffing them
more. And his open border policy is sheer insanity. I voted
for him as a lesser-devil issue. When soccer moms start getting
killed on the highways by illegals with valid driver's licenses
then maybe they'll clue in.
\_ why do you like him then? also it's more than not being intellec-
tual. It's like he has trouble speaking and keeping basic trains
of thought.
\_ you need to be both incredibly naive and/or incredibly
selfish to consider bush' entire gamut of foreign policy
decisions as anything but knee-jerk, near-sited and
destructive. as for his domestic policy, there isn't any
money to even really talk about increased government.
unless of course you mean national security and the
military. you should hang out by union square in nyc
sometime and watch the national debt grow.
\_ he's already increased federal government. how much
bigger should it get? you want socialism or communism?
i'll bet you're a socialist but you're also opposed to
all the Big Brother stuff that comes with a big gov'nt.
\_ Right, because we all know that people can be easily
classified in a mere handful of big economic theories.
Grow up and realize that it's possible to want huge
sweeping competent and efficient government programs
_and_ decent privacy rights/civil liberties.
\_ Huge, sweeping, competent, efficient, non-Big
Brother government? You can want that, sure. I can
want to win the powerball super lottery every month
also. Our wants have nothing to do with the way the
world really is, but I do admire your lust for
paradox. Big, efficient, competent government. I'm
guessing you're in school and never had a job at a
place with more than 2 dozen people.
\_ Oh yeah? Give an example of an efficient govt.
program. (IRS doesn't count)
\_ http://www.nist.gov
i know several people who work at NIST and
i think the taxpayer definitely gets his/her
money's worth there.
btw, i didn't read the rest of the thread, just
saw your question and answered it.
\_ You think NIST is big? It's a penny ante
dinky little half baked government funded
hangout for nerds with slide rules. I'm
glad to hear they're really efficient nerds. |
| 2003/10/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10414 Activity:nil |
10/1 http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_822534.html \_ I heard a story about this on NPR. The picture is better. \_ lol. The Russian text says: "A magazine about how money's made" Now, -thats- funny. _/ |
| 2003/10/1 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10397 Activity:moderate |
10/1 I mailed in my voter registeration and absentee ballot request in
the SAME envelope. But today I got a reply from the county saying
their system does not show I am registered hence they couldn't
mail me the absentee ballot. How stupid is that? Now it is past
the deadline for both the registration and the basentee ballot. I
wanted to exercise my right as a citizen but stupid Santa Clara
County just won't allow me to do it.
\_ Are you black, mexican, gay pedophile or transgendered -
if so contact the ACLU to sue. Too bad you're name is not Jose or
Juan-Carlos, then you could vote as many times as you want.
\_ Oh you poor overprivileged bastard. If only you were allowed
to commit voter fraud..
\_ Yeah, because as the ACLU would tell you, only minorities are
too stupid to figure out a ballot or how to register. They
don't mean it to be patronizing or anything. They just
understand the 'difficulties' people from other cultures have
with our Whitey controlled electoral system.
\_ Yeah, because we only update the voting facilities of
white communities. Why bother with absentee ballots?
They've all been invalidated since Arianna dropped out
of the election.
\_ Arianna dropping out invalidates nothing. You're a nut.
That's like saying Marey Carey and that dwarf dropped out
so it invalidates them. Nonsense. Huffington shouldn't
have even been in the debates with poll numbers so low.
\_ Well now you can refuse all responsibility for whatever stupidity
Juan-Carlos, then you could ote as many times as you want.
comes out of it, with a clean conscience.
\_ No, it's now partially his fault if something stupid happens and
he would've voted for something else. We need more people like
you around to not vote so my vote means more. |
| 2003/9/30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:10379 Activity:nil |
9/30 Is it me, or Westley Clark is more of a Republican than Democrat?
\_ Your choice, bad R or wannabe D. Probably just (S)elfish mostly.
\_ I think you're "probably an (A)sshole mostly". What does this
comment add to the debate? Incredibly prejudicial.
\_ And your ad hominem is SUCH an improvement.
\_ Ah, but the evidence that the 2P is an asshole is right
there in front of us, while there's no evidence given
for 2P's assertion. |
| 2003/9/27-29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10351 Activity:nil |
9/27 CIA asks Justice Dept. to investigate allegations that White House blew
agent's cover to get back at her husband for writing article condemning
knowing inclusion of false statements in the State of the Union Address:
http://csua.org/u/4je
\_ the white house has a record of every single incoming
and outgoing call, i wonder when they'll release the
records?
\_ Probably about the same time they release details of who attended
the Energy Policy meeting.
\_ what's 'rose law firm'? recently the white house
almost immediately released records of wesley clark
calling the white house, so they have the technology
to tell who called who in the white house when.
\_ if you don't know that then you've got no business sharing
your political views, however, yes, everyone here already
agrees it was bad *if* it happened and should be investigated
\_ Or where the Rose Law Firm records were for 7 years.
\_ The rest of us already knew this. Where have *you* been?
\_ making ad hominem attacks in the Medea Benjamin thread below.
\_ And this republican says they should do it. That action, if true, is
indefensible. -emarkp
\_ If the dems had done this, I'd still be right with you. --erikred.
\_ Reprehensible behavior transcends political allegiance.
There's no excuse for it. -John
\_ I agree that it should be investigated. It should not be assumed to
be true or false until there's been a non-partisan finding.
\_ Do you think Novak (and Newsweek, which published essentially
the same story at the same time) were lying about it? And
seriously now, do you think that there is any chance of this
getting investigated, with all three branches of government
firmly in Republican hands?
\_ Novak didn't say who told him so we don't know. That's what
\_"Two Senior administration officials"
investigations are for. If you think Republicans are all
liars and into conspiracies, etc, maybe you weren't aware
that Novak is a conservative? If conservatives were all so
universally evil why would one print this? Thanks.
\_ This is the kind of logical leap that makes discussions
on motd so fucking pointles. No one said "Republicans are
all liars". Grow up. --scotsman
\_ Duh. It's right there. Go fucking read it in the thing
I was replying to. People who can't fucking read is
what makes the motd pointless. I don't care if you grow
up but you should learn to fucking read before posting.
\_ Read it again, after putting away the GOP card.
--scotsman
\_ But my credit cards aren't maxed out! What the
fuck is a republican administration having the CIA
raise taxes for?!?
\_ Exactly. Thank you.
\_ Will you hold your breath until they appoint an independent
council to investigate it? Please??? There is no way that
this is going to happen. And yes, I know that Novak is a
Republican. He is also a reporter, not a White House
official. |
| 2003/9/24 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10316 Activity:moderate |
9/24 what time/channel is debate for Governor?
\_ 6 p.m. Pretty much every local channel.
\_ Is is going to be available for online viewing somewhere?
\_ Will Ahnuld be debating too?
\_ "All who oppose me shall be destroyed!"
\_ his surprise is to walk off the stage and hold a press conference
outside.
\_ Nah, that's Cruz's plan.
\_ Supposedly this is the only debate he's participating.
\_ Supposedly?
\_ It's the only one where the questions are given to the
participants ahead of the actual debate. So they can bone up.
\_ Basically, it's scripted. All he has to do is to act it
out.
\_ Except when the candidates start rebutting each other.
\_ his surprise is to walk off the stage and hold a press
conference outside. |
| 2003/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10210 Activity:low |
9/16 Clark has announced his entry into the '04 President's race. Would
any of you vote for him? Does it matter to you that he has no
previous political experience?
\_ He hasn't announced yet. He's called for a news conference
tomorrow. He can always do a reverse-Arnie and say he's not running.
\_ I've seen links that said he announced. Can't trust the net
anymore! :-)
\_ Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18454-2003Sep16?language=printer
\_ Neither did Pinochet, Idi Amin, or Eisenhower, and see how well
they turned out....
\_ so what is this about Clark being involved in the Branch Davidian
craziness at Waco? I've seen a lot of obviously very partisan
stuff about it and was wondering what the hell really happened.
\_ ?? Haven't seen a word about it. I thought Waco was all about
the ATF and some FBI?
\_ that's what I thought too, but check out the first hit
on a google search of 'wesley clark waco'
\_ Neocons will spread any lie to further their cause.
\_ In other news, Senator John Edwards (not the psychic) announced
his candidacy on the Daily Show (Comedy Central) last night, but
the papers are saying he announced it this morning in his
hometown. What up wit dat? |
| 2003/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:29538 Activity:high |
9/14 Myth of Allende obscures reality
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982167/posts
\_ Pinochet murdered thousands of people. Get a life.
\_ And how many did Communists kill? over a hundred
million? Were Chile like Cuba today you would be
happy because a few thousand Communists lives
saved?
\_ I was in Chile in 1993-1994. Most of the people there *loved*
Pinochet. And Chile has had one of the most stable (if not
*the* most) economies in South America for the last few
decades. --emarkp |
| 2003/9/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10176 Activity:nil |
9/12 Dean just like Gingrich says Gephardt:
http://csua.org/u/4al
\_ Why is Gephardt still hanging around? He's such a "last kid picked
for the team" type. --scotsman
\_ yeah, this guy has been rejected by Americans in how many
attempts to get the democratic nomination?
\_ Lieberman lost 10 points nationally after his repeatedly booed
attacks on the democratic base. Maybe Gephardt didn't notice. --aa
\_ Gingrich is my favorite politician. The Republicans have lost
their way after his departure.
\_ Living Color is my favorite black metal band.
\_ Hate him if you like but he did good things for the party.
That's probably why you hate him.
\_ I love how you totally missed the point of that. |
| 2003/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10156 Activity:nil |
9/11 "Gov. Gray Davis' administration says it is unlikely to approve plans
for substantial reductions to the state payroll until the middle of
next month. That makes it likely that the impact of the cuts -- in
thousands of layoffs and in reduced state services -- won't become
public until after the Oct. 7 recall election."
http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/ca/budget/story/7393104p-8336582c.html
\_ Davis is a master at hiding bad news until after the election,
which a huge part of why he's up for recall now. Look, its not
smooth sailing once he's elected, he still has to deal with the
consequenses of his policies. Thank goodness for the Recall! |
| 2003/9/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10145 Activity:nil |
9/10 http://nationalreview.com/comment/comment-lynch082103.asp \_ a remarkably even-handed criticism of the civil rights issues raised by the Patriot Act by a rabidly conservative media outlet. check it out! --charmer \_ I don't think Cato institute is rabidly conservative. They are libertarians, they don't like government interfering with people's lives. \_ they don't like the government interfering in corporations lives, which allows for more corporate intereference in our lives. In every way that matters, they are the very far right. \_ very far right != conservative, anymore than very far left == liberal. |
| 2003/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10123 Activity:high |
9/8 http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6726186.htm Dean: the party of young rich white educated geeky people. \_ why should black people vote for Bush as opposed to Dean? I am too tired to tell you right now why that article is stupid. \_ what an amazing cop-out. you're too tired? than dont respond at all. you're wasting bits. \_ Ah, yes, bits, that unrenewable resource. Dude, the motd is a waste of bits. Deal. \_ what a dumb article. "More than 6 in 10 whites describe themselves as Internet users, while about half of blacks say they use it". Notice the capitalized Internet and the attempted distinction between "about half" and "6 in 10". \_ Why should black people vote for Dean? Why should the color of one's skin have any relation to their politics? \_ spoken by a true white boy \_ not white and you still didn't answer anything, but i don't expect you to because the answers don't fit your agenda. 1) they shouldn't, 2) it doesn't. \_ beats the hell out of me. why don't you ask the NAACP? \_ naacp? i don't hang out with racists, thanks. \_ You're viewing the article in the wrong light. Dean needs the Dem nom first. There are more minorities in the Dem party. The ability to relate to minority POV is thus, more significant. |
| 2003/9/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:10102 Activity:nil 50%like:10616 |
9/5 Damn you, rich motd censor!
\_ Just restart the debate:
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/000984.html |
| 2003/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10094 Activity:nil |
9/5 Dean and Clark to D.C. in 2004.
\_ who's Clark?
\_ Wesley Clark? Who is Dean?
\_ It is way to early to be calling that one. -ausman
\_ I don't think he's calling it, so much as hoping for it.
\_ Gay marriages and socialized medicine for everyone -
whoopee!!!
\_ awesome, I want!
\_ awesome, *you* pay!
\_ another 9/11 in 2005 if that's the case.
\_ by foreigners or by insiders?
\_ since we just diluted the value and meaning of citizenship
the other day by giving illegals drivers licenses, is there
really much difference anymore?
\_ the value and meaning of citizenship is to carry a
driver's license? I really think you misunderstand
what it means to be an American
\_ I didn't make that comment but it's a valid point. At
least it calls SOMETHING into question when "illegal"
immigrants are on public record, with kids in public
schools etc. If you want illegals to have this stuff,
then you should instead legalize them. Not have this
doublethink weirdness.
\_ once they're registered, how long do you think it
will be before INS starts using the database to
track them down?
\_ there will be a firewall between the departments
\_ Politicians are willing to tweak anything to buy votes.
\_ Clark kills Santiago and becomes president. Oh wait, wrong show.
\_ Dean Cain plays Clark Kent in D.C. comic tv show: Superman
\_ Played. Tom Welling plays Clark Kent now on Smallville.
\_ Quite seriously, how much is "red america" going to flip out
if Dean wins the election? I guess nothing can be as bad
as Hillary to them.
\_ red america? you mean the Communists? what are you talking
about?
\_ maybe he means red-neck?
\_ I think he means red/blue like on the results maps of
the country during bush/gore. |
| 2003/9/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10083 Activity:nil |
9/4 Democratic candidate debates on TV tonight on PBS:
6 PM Mountain time, from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
\_ Who? Aren't they irrelevant ?
\_ No cookie for YOU. |
| 2003/8/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas] UID:10008 Activity:moderate |
8/29 So do we have general agreement that censoring certain threads simply
because the source URL is a major newspaper you don't like is a bad
idea or are we just going to start censoring all URLs from all
sources on all topics and destroy any value the motd has for everyone?
I vote for the former but if we want to get into destroying links just
because, I'm willing to sink to that level too as necessary.
\_ Berkeley, home the free speech movement, home of censorship.
I like hearing divergent points of view. Censorship sucks.
\_ There are divergent points of view and there are liars that pass
themselves off as journalists and fair-and-balanced commentators.
\_ And then there are idiots that insist on making the
decision for everyone else. Grow up, son -- there are other
points of view.
\_ We report, you decide.
\_ The best way to uncover life's little lies and insanities is to
shine a light on them, not cover them up. There was a copy of Mein
Kampf in my high school's library, very informative reading it was.
If you think someone's a crook you don't erase him from history,
you put him on display for all to see. Hopefully the anonymous
censor may grow to see this one day.
-- ilyas
\_ People who delete links because of their source are 1) fascist
or 2) are Moonies.
\_ The real solution is for those w/ opinions to create public readable
files w/ a list of news organizations and their views. if psb tells
me not to read the wash post but to read the atlantic, i'll listen...
why? because he's way smarter than all of us. -psb #27 fan.
or 2) still rebelling against mommy and daddy.
\- i guess WashPost is ok, but i dont read any daily newspapers.
i'm more interesting in explanations than facts. and those
come from aggregating facts and adding some thinking.
the atlantic now and then has interesting articles [like on
on modern piracy] but when it comes to political stuff, often
i wish the articles were shorter. in cases where i know of
better sources [like on foreign policy] i didnt read the
atlantic much, but they do have some interesting articles on
domestic issues [like their article on early admissions to
college]. atlantic is pretty cheep. worth reading: NYT if someone
else pays, e'ist [worth paying for], NYker if can get cheep,
maybe atlantic if have time, intenational securty is sort of
specialized by pretty good, NYRevBooks [a little pricey, ideal
if you can split a sub]. maybe TLS and LRB online. i dont read
much online. --psb
\_ I prefer to combine thinking and facts myself. Just having
reliable sources of facts is nice.
\- the selection of the facts presented, either intentionally
or incidentally, affects the impression made. secondarily
some prose is a pleasure to read and some a chore. the
aticles in the e'ist tend to be short. so does usa today.
in the case of the e'ist the articles are short because
they dont need padding [like telling you iraq is in the
middle east]. the articles in USA Today are short because
they dont say anything. a lot of the graphs you see in
time and newsweek are useless ... like they give you
absolute numbers when what you want are indexed changes
etc. the thinking for yourself comes from evaluating
different explanations. e.g. just facts about say the
"howard dean phenonomon" ... how old he is, where he is
from, his poll numbers, is positions on various issues
collpaosed to "for/against" dont mean much. asking is he
mcgovern or carter or mccain or something new might be
more interesting [borrwing from the current lexington]--psb |
| 2003/8/29 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29512 Activity:high |
8/28 I thought this was funny enough to repost and non-partisan so you
can all laugh without feeling guilty.
"The White House released a videotape of President Bush meeting with
his cabinet, and today Iraqi officials say they believe the tape is
authentic." -- Jay Leno
\_ Leno > Letterman.
\_ And O'Brien rules them all.
\_ Jon Stewart p0wns them all.
\_ pretty good. |
| 2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12249 Activity:moderate |
2/13 http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4262421 "ominous parallels between fiscal overstretch in imperial Bourbon France and contemporary America." \_ financial doom and gloom predicted blah blah blah. Its nice that they mention the parellells exist, but annoying that they dont elaborate at all. \_ Only Kerry can save us! He has such great ideas! Like, uhm, well he's not George Bush! \_ You mean like cutting expenses and raising taxes? What a nutty guy! |
| 2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12245 Activity:high |
2/13 DRUDGE REPROT EXCLUSIVE: KERRY SODOMIZED BY GOAT
Why is the liberal media afraid to carry this story?
Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, The Wall Street Journal are all
carrying it. What is the New York Times afraid of???
\_ perhaps they are afraid of looking like a fool when the story
turns out to be false.
\_ I am so glad that there are resources like soda which I can turn to.
\_ The Times policy is to not use the name of victims of sex crimes
if the nature of the crime will humiliate or degrade the victim.
\_ Where did you get "sex crime" out of all this?
\_ You think it is legal to have sex with a goat?
\_ Yermom thought it was
\_ No matter what yermom told you, you cannot have
sex with that goat. It is still a sex crime.
\_ Seriously though, I heard Kerry had sex outside of marriage? I bet
he killed innocent Vietnamese too, before getting himself shot up
and losing the war. I bet he masturbates too.
\_ He shot Vietnamese people! He's racist!
\_ americans shot americans during the civil war. i guess they're
racist too.
\_ no, because doing something to your own kind is inherently
not racist. just like homies chillin wid my niggas.
\_ And he was once in the same room as Jane Fonda!!!1!!!
\_ How many times has a drudge headline been wrong? He briefly
posted and quickly retracted something about 4-5 years ago which is
a much better record than any newspaper. He got sued for it and
the guy suing lost. You can mock the source as much as you want,
but your guy is still a loser. At least Dean has passion and
Edwards is charming and has a personality. Even Sharpton has more
going for him. What's with the party's obsession with putting these
dead as a doornail Gore-bot clones like Kerry up for election?
\_ What is this headline? It's a self-serving publicity attempt (and
it appears to work). In this case the actual Drudge headline was:
KERRY FIGHTS OFF MEDIA PROBE OF RECENT ALLEGED GOAT SEX
Ok, well that's factually correct isn't it? Drudge is alleging
goat sex and Kerry is fighting that. If they come up with
a sleazy story then fine, milk it, but here he's milking
something that doesn't even exist yet.
\_ That is just what the liberal media wants you to think.
The Drudge Report and Fox News only report the truth! |
| 2003/8/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:29494 Activity:high |
8/26 Invaluable history on the First Amendment
Justice Rehnquist's Dissent in WALLACE V. JAFFREE (1985)
Read this is you are intellectually honest.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971381/posts
\_ most ironic freeper quote of the day, from the comments on the link:
"Now, we're on the edge of the judiciary taking over. Obviously, we
can't let this happen. We need to resist, protest, make loud noises
and, most of all, elect conservatives who will appoint and approve
conservative judges."
\_ Shrug. No different than the left thinks and say everyday in
far more public forums. -- (I)
\_ There is this great theocracy known as 'Iran' you
are free to immigrate to, have fun. Anyway the above
opinion was the dissenting one, why do i waste my
time responding to the freeper guy, goodbye - danh
\_ I read freep, but I disagree with anything that resembles
a theorcracy. Religion should only be a matter of faith.
\_ LOL you don't even read the link. I would characterize
your behavoir as partisan emoting. And you call yourself
a (computer) scientist - rational indeed. -op
\_ And you obviously took exactly what you wanted to from it.
Find Luis Gonzales's comments. Some of the most cogent on
the page (more so than Rehnquist's). Simply looking at the
context in which this _DISSENTING_ (you do know what that
means, right) opinion is presented should tip you off to
the deceptive attitude of the initial poster. --scotsman
\_ The Court refused to enforce the 14th
Amendment for 90 years - is the per curiam
in those cases equally legitimate? -op
\_ My name is Bill O'Reilly -- I'm intellectually dishonest, so I
can't read that. This is the no-spin zone! -bill
\_ WTF does O'Reilly have to do with *anything*?
\_ Minority Opinion, thank the Goddess. How you freepers would wail
and scream if some pagan tried to put a statue of Pan up
in a government building, using government funds. This is
nothing but an elaborate rhetorical attempt to justify
forcing your beliefs on others.
\_ If the Framers of the Constitution were all pagan, and
most of America today were pagan, then they wouldn't have
a problem with a statue of Pan.
\_ The 10 commandments don't advocate a state religion. They are
simply Judeo/Christian tradition. The same tradition this
was founded on. Would you have them remove "In God We Trust"
from our currency? Does it really matter what's on it? |
| 2003/8/22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29438 Activity:nil |
8/22 Here is the text of the proposed Victory Act:
http://www.libertythink.com/VICTORYAct.pdf
Now, I think the Patriot Act is unamarican and that Ashcroft is
a pretty bad guy, but I'm missing where the Evil is in
this new act. can someone point it out, or is it just hype?
some of this even seems pretty good, like allowing harmless old poeople
to leave prison if they're proven to be nonviolent. |
| 2003/8/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29436 Activity:very high |
8/22 Which court has higher power, a US District court or a
state Supreme Court?
\_ Federal courts have jurisdiction over Constitutional
matters, which, unfortunately thanks to the loose
constructionists (ie. libs), basically means everything.
So in practice the Fed trumps all.
\_ Actually, this isn't a liberal/conservative thing, it's
part of the constitution, Article VI and the precedence
of McCulloc v. Maryland. However, the Bill of Rights does
provision that non-delegated rights (read, enumerated rights)
are reserved for the states. So in other words, if the Fed
doesn't give a crap about xyz, then the state has the right
to do xyz. A prime example of this was slavery, which before the
civil war and 13th was offically a state issue (with
the exception of the Missouri Compromise when things got out
of hand).
\_ States do not have rights, only people do.
\_ Don't forget corporations! They have rights too.
\_ Not really. Ask Nike.
The Constitution was framed to enumerate
their state governments.
powers delegated to the Federal government,
everything else defaulted to the people and
their state governments. The Constitution
was meant to restrict the Federal government,
not citizens.
\_ That's why the 2nd amendment exists, so the
government can restrict gun ownership. Oh wait,
uhm, errr, nevermind!
\_ "The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Amendment X, US Constitution. In other words, if it's
not in the Constitution (or its Amendments), it's a
State issue.
\_ Uh, not exactly. It basically means any Law passed by
Congress is the Law of the Land. If Congress passes
an unconstitutional law then it can be contested and
overturned by the Supreme Court. However, Congress can
try to amend the Constitution so that its law is
constitutional. A prime example is Income Tax.
\_ Howzabout this: if it's not in the Constitution,
it's a State issue; however, the Fed. Gov. can
make it a Federal matter by passing an amendment
or passing a law that the courts fail to strike
down as unconstitutional.
\_ looks like the conservatives, particularly Ashcroft, are the
ones trying to deny state rights these days. -tom
\_ hey, you're your dead senator's wife. what's the problem?
\_ a politician flip-flopped when it suited him.. really rare
\_ The Justic Department does not enact laws, they enforce them.
National defense is the primary responsibility of the Federal
government.
\_ True, but the Justice Department also puts heavy pressure
on lawmakers of the President's party to toe its line.
And sometimes it quite simply ignores laws. -John
\_ "Heavy pressure"? Golly, that's mean of them! Those
lawmakers that are only held to account by the voters
are under "heavy pressure" by some paper pusher
appointees in the JD! Mean, mean, mean, I say!
\_ [plonked again] |
| 2003/8/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29412 Activity:nil |
8/20 http://www.GWBush04.com/archives/000192.php Patriotapalooza. |
| 2003/8/20 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29397 Activity:high |
8/19 Whether or not you support Howard Dean, Ashcroft's new "Victory
Act", and the PATRIOT Act it's based on needs to die, quickly and
completly. If you've never heard of Howard Dean, you might be
pleasantly surprised by spending a few minutes looking at his stance
on various issues.
http://www.deanforamerica.com/stopashcroft
\_ I agree. Fiscally responsible, socially progressive. I'm voting
for Dean.
\_ Me too. Kerry and Edwards are too forgettable and don't
differentiate themselves.
\_ Tell the others!
\_ what is wrong with Richard Gephardt? he is mother of all
socialist. no? -- can't decide on Karry, Dean nor Gephardt |
| 2003/8/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29366 Activity:high |
8/15 New York power outages: another fine victory for deregulation.
\_ you're a genius. have a cookie.
\_ Look at the bright side. MS Blaster won't spread as fast. (Or is
that the dark side?)
\_ You're a nut. It had nothing to do with deregulation.
\_ Is that you, Pete Wilson?
\_ It may or may not. But you are correct in that OP is jumping
to conclusions. I blame that evil schemer, Dr. Chaos!
\_ http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0815-07.htm
\_ Palast is that ultra-leftist kook who thinks that Bush
stole the election in Florida.
\_ I don't think Palast is a complete kook, I read his book,
his main point is that voting machines in predominately
white counties in Florida would "spit back out" what it
considered an improperly filled out ballet and in
predominately black counties in Florida the voting machines
were configured to just meekly accept an improperly
filled out ballot, remarkably different behavior than
in the former example. He doesn't claim gwbush is
directly responsible for this but someone or some
organization was, probably the same people who came
up with the great idea to hire a private firm to
knock a bunch of ex cons off of the voting rolls in Florida,
which is fine I guess except no one bothered to check their
work and a lot of people were unable to vote on election
day. - danh
\_ Nice troll, dan. From here on down none of this has
a single thing to do with the power outage, power
deregulation or anything else. While you're trolling
from the left you might go check out the various trolls
from the right who would tell you about the leftist
media cheating the voting in the panhandle, the military
who got screwed in (D) controlled counties, how those ex
cons weren't allowed to vote by law, that the (D) had a
phone bank running in Texas(!!!) calling old people to
tell them they'd voted for Buchanan before anything had
even happened meaning they were planning on contesting the
election on the butterfly ballot but only if it didn't go
their way, and that the full state wide recount had bush
losing by three (3!!!) votes in a single scenario because
(pay attention) those nice rich white areas with all those
fascist republicans using their fancy shamncy voting
machines had the same error rate as the punch cards once
someone looked at them by hand, and most of the errors
were in Gore's favor. Now that you've trolled the motd
with the partisan crap and I've counter trolled it and
a few other below have all added their bit of strict
partisanship, let's let it go and move on. You've got
another election to lose coming up and your party would
be better served if you directed your energy to the
future instead of the past. Besides, who the hell wanted
Gore in office on 9/12 anyway? Not even Gore.
\_ bush did steal the election in Florida
\_ Excellent. Well backed statement. You got
into Cal? You're on the football team?
\_ Even though a later count confirmed he had
a narrow lead?
\_ 1) some counts had him winning some
had him losing. (In fact the general
thought is if just a palm beach recount
Bush won, if a Florida wide recount Bush
lost. 2) once it didn't matter
anymore the counts were a lot less
thurough. 3) Bush stole the elections pre
counts by agressivly denying the rights
of people to vote by falsely declaring them
felons and knocking them off the voter
roles.
\_ about (1): 'general thought'? Without
numbers you can think all you want...
but it's just partisan wishful thinking.
CNN ran a story a month after
the recounts, saying an unofficial
recount completed, and would have given
Bush the victory anyways. That
unofficial recount had some nice
advantages (for instance, since it wasn't
important, neither democrats nor
republicans tried to influence it in
an illicit way, so it's as close to
impartial data as you will get).
(2): Do you have anything more than
anecdotal evidence to back this up?
If anything, I expect the recounts to
be more, not less accurate, if special
interests no longer breathe down the
necks of those poor volunteers (see (1)).
\_ Recounts mainly consist of checking
the numbers at the main office against
the local numbers. No ballot checking,
no actual recounting.
(3): Do you have any data to back this
up?
\_ Check the New York Times, Washington
Post, etc. This, for obvious reasons
was given very little attention in
the press, but the abuses by Katherine
Harris and Jeb Bush against the voters
are documented.
standard many times over... Is it your defense
\_ google for "bush florida black
voter roles felon" and you will find a lot
of articles talking about just this issue
http://www.commondreams.org/views/121000-106.htm
is one.
At any rate, the best you can say is
there is some uncertainty, not that
BUSH WITHOUT A DOUBT STOLE THE ELECTION.
You are a partisan moron, btw.
\_ one thing i think we should all agree
on, though, is that regardless of who
"really" won the 2000 election, the
voting process in america has some
*very* serious problems that need
to be dealt with immediately.
if the 2000 election were a scietific
experiment to determine who should
be president, the only result one
could publish would be "inconclusive."
that should not be allowed to happen.
i think all of our time would be
better spent trying to work towards
read the decisions.
better election process in the future
than getting all worked up about 2000.
\_ The USSC decision was 7-2 in favor of Bush. He
won, period. All the demagoguery and race
baiting can't change that fact. Of course,
if you start divining the will of the
voter based on some completely arbitary
standard many times over... Is it your contention
that Democratic voters are so stupid
they can't fill out a punch card? Voters should
be required to pass an intelligence test
and if you are a net recipient of money from
the government you can't vote.
Read the damn USSC decision.
\_ http://www.supremecourtus.gov/florida.html
\_ the 7-2 case said that Florida could decide what
to do. Florida followed Florida election law
and was looking at every ballot to look for
things like hanging chads. The case went back
to the Supreme Court and this time in a 5-4
case the court said that Florida's election
laws be damned, they were awarding Florida
to Bush. Get your history right.
\_ I set this trap deliberately to see if
you read the decision - you obviously
did not. The USSC decision was 7-2
that the recounts were unconstitutional
under equal protection and due process.
Look for your own intellectual honesty
read the decisions. Article 2 of
the Constitution dictates plenary
power to choose electors resides with
the legislature - not the unelected
state judiciary. Everything you wrote
is wrong and is rebutted in the
several decisions.
\_ just out of curiosity, are you refering
to "Per curiam opinion in Bush v. Gore;
Rehnquist, C. J., concurring; Stevens,
Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ.,
dissenting" from the supreme court
link above? i'll go read it, but i want
to make sure it's not a red herring.
\_ Armchair quarterbacks in politics need to find a life...
\_ laugh while you can, monkey boy! soon the liberal media
will start reading the motd and their vast conspiracy
will crumble when they are exposed to the Truth at last.
\_ Too late:
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=257&row=0 |
| 2003/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29301 Activity:nil |
8/10 John Ashcroft is Evil! Free Mike Hawash!... oh. Darn.
<DEAD>www.freemikehawash.org<DEAD> |
| 2003/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:29222 Activity:kinda low |
8/3 Dems attacking Davis in public. Bye Davis. We'll hardly miss you. http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/recall/story/7141249p-8088520c.html \_ this is pathetic. if the democrats had half a testicle between their entire party, they'd all be calling for davis to step down. i'm not impressed. |
| 2003/7/28 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:29157 Activity:insanely high |
7/28 There are stories of pilots from communist countries defecting to
other places with their planes (N Korean Mig-15 to S Korea, Soviet
Mig to US, Chinese Mig to Taiwan, etc etc). Are there stories of
pilots defecting TO communist countries (e.g. U.S. F-16 to Soviet,
etc etc)?
\_ Just about 1 month ago there were rumor about couple F-16 from
Taiwan defected to the mainland China.
\_ by "rumor" do you mean article in the People's Daily? I
wouldn't trust the Chinese state run media to tell me the
fucking weather.
\_ looking at how we have hyped up to the iraq war, i think
our 'free' media isn't much better either. I use to think
otherwise, but now I am fully convinced our government gets
to decide largely what they want to feed us. no better than
the state run media in china, period.
\_ I wouldn't trust the Republican run US media to tell me
the fucking weather either.
\_ How could you not trust such Fox News tickers as these:
... Pointless news crawls up 37 percent ... Do Democrats
cause cancer? Find out at http://FOXNEWS.COM ... Rupert Murdoch:
Terrific Dancer ... Dow down 5000 points ... Study: 92
percent of Democrats are gay ... JFK Posthumously joins
Republican Party ... Oil slicks found to keep seals
young, supple ...
\_ Why Republican? Why not just say SATAN! or BIG BROTHER!
Or THE MONSTER UNDER THE BED! If you think our media is
right wing biased, you're *really* far left on the spectrum
like the nutters writing the SF Guardian who call the
\_ after 1989, there's no more point in defecting. Let me as you
this, where do you think the future is, China or Taiwan?
SF Chronicle right wing and rag on Feinstein for being a
Republican shill. Sometimes the answer lies within....
\_ If you don't think that the media is corporate
dominated, you have the most serious case of tunnel
vision imaginable. corporate != republican, exactly,
but the big media companies serve business interests
in a way that is unprecedented both historically and
in comparison to other countries
\_ well said!!
\_ that's fine and all and I don't disagree that news
has become big business. however, it is no more
republican than Senator Feinstein. If you meant
to say 'corporate' then say corporate. btw, where
exactly do you think the democrats get hundreds of
millions of dollars every election cycle? hint:
it isn't small donors sending in their $5 each.
\_ Actually in Dean's case (the man with the most
money so far) the majority of his money comes
from small donations. Yet another reason Dean
is The Man. -aspo
\_ http://billmon.org/archives/Dean table.gif
\_ Mostly people from the west have more sense than that but in the
last 50+ years there have been a tiny number of defections but I
don't know of any that included planes. It would've been a huge
PR coup for the communists and you'd know about it.
\_ we'd know about it because the american media loves to distribute
the propaganda of other countries? this isn't BBC. this is CNN.
\_ How many reports of tapes sent to Al-Jazeera, or Iraqi
press conferences did they re-broadcast? -John
\_ Some would say too many. It's more fun to think we live
in a Big Brother controlled State then in reality. I
think these people imagine they're some sort of freedom
fighters, fighting the good fight against the oppressive
Bush controlled CIA run CNN or something. The
information wants to be free or something like that.
\_ no, it's not fun. it's just the way it is. try
comparing domestic news against news broadcast in
europe and you'll know what i'm talking about. i'm
not saying foreign news is better. i'm saying that
US media as a whole makes a LOT of editorial choice
about what to broadcast and it's not what is
happening everywhere in the world.
\_ I do. And EU news makes editorial choices as well.
You seem to prefer those editorial choices and
find them personally preferable to US editorial
choices (in the maintream news media). That is
your personal choice and does not in any way make
EU news superior or more accurate or less biased
than US news. You simply prefer the EU bias over
the US bias. That's all mostly about how they
report the news. As far as your point about certain
stories never getting reported at all, it isn't due
to a grand conspiracy. It is simply because the
average American doesn't give a crap what's going
on in the next county, much less another part of
the world. If it sold ads and newspapers they
would be printing it. They are as you pointed
out earlier corporate controlled and thus have
profit as their primary motivation.
\_ http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/Defections.html
According to this site the were a lot of China->Taiwan defections
until 1989. What happened after 1989, the Taiwanese start to
shoot down all the defectors? Or did the Chinese government
threatened to kill the family members of the defectors?
\_ A single random plane flying in with the pilot screaming into
his radio on a known frequency, "don't shoot! im defecting!" is
not going to be shot down. Family killed? That's more likely.
\_ "4 July 2003 Two Indonesian F-16s intercepted US Navy F-18s ..."
I think our Top Guns should now learn dog-fighting against our
own fighter jets besides the MiG's.
\_ the US Airforce estimates that in a total combat, the
aircraft attrition rate would be one F22 raptor vs four
F16s. So as long as we own F22s, it's ok.
\_ Note that the F22 also costs about four times the price
of an F16 (well over $100 million a piece).
\_ Intercepted only means they were in the area and threatened
to shoot them down. It doesn't mean there was a dog fight
and the F18's lost.
\_ yeah, it means "we see you". there are no dogfights
unless both guys run out of missles before reinforcements
arrive from the nearest airstrip/carrier. they should
fire before enemies are even in eyesight now.
\_ Taiwan is a dead end. Hence no defection anymore.
\_ A dead end in what sense?
\_ I think that an American did defect to Russia in a plane. Once. I
STFW and couldn't find the story, though. --dim
\_ This sounds vaguely familiar but I can't recall the details
either. I think the Republican Corporate Controlled CIA run
Evil USian Media is to blame for brainwashing us! ;-O |
| 2003/7/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:29073 Activity:nil |
7/17 http://www.defectiveyeti.com/archives/000690.html |
| 2003/6/30 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:28868 Activity:high |
6/30 http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/archives/2003_06.shtml#001320 Can anybody back up what he says about the flag being replaced? \_ It was taken down because it was "larger than the stars and stripes" which is funny because they didn't claim that for the previous years. \_ so it had nothing to do w/ the court decision? \_ Wait, that was a different thing.. This I haven't read about, but I found an AP article talking of it. http://csua.org/u/3ft at the bottom. \_ thanks, that's pretty cool. \_ It only flew once in previous years and the local rules weren't the same then. Stop looking for some sort of VRW anti-gay C. The world does not revolve around your penis and where you put it. I promise. \_ As was stated, this was separate from the actual discussion, so your troll is almost not worth replying to. But your facts are wrong. It has flown at least three times during pride celebrations, and the stated reasons for taking it down were from the federal flag etiquette code. \_ "As was stated"? No such thing was stated. This was in direct response to the posting so piss off. And no it has not flown three previous times. It was flown the first and *one* time later. You can't shut down the truth by trotting out that troll crap. Just because you disagree (and you're factually incorrect as well) does not make my posting a troll. \_ Now all you have to do is convince the Republican party of that statement and it will be true. \_ I'm a (R) and don't recall seeing anywhere on recent party platforms that your penis and it's location is the center of the universe. Maybe I missed a paragraph. \_ ignoring the troll fodder above, yes, the gay pride flag was taken down for the day and a US flag flew in it's place. |
| 2003/6/19-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:28769 Activity:nil 53%like:28197 |
6/19 Websphere job in Iowa in /csua/pub/jobs. --scotsman |
| 2003/6/18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:28756 Activity:high |
6/17 Baron says WMDs will be found:
http://www.defectiveyeti.com/archives/000671.html
\_ They'll be found if they have to manufacture them themselves!! |
| 2003/5/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:28416 Activity:insanely high |
5/12 Oakland High teens get grilled by Secret Service
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201268949
What did they say? "Gonna put a cap in that fool's ass"?
\_ Card-carrying Republican signing in to say, how inane. I wish more
conservatives would figure out the line between security and
insanity.
\_ Right on. A little more common sense on everyone's part
would serve us well. -op
\_ I agree in part. However, we have to remember how we got to
this point. How has the Federal government accumulated all
of this power and intrusive involvement into virtually every
aspect of our lives. More importantly how has it accumulated
the resources (ie money) to organize such violations.
This irony seems to escape the liberal polity.
The article, BTW, is garbage and provides absolutely zero
information about what happened. Its unreasonable to
speculate without more information.
\_ FASCIST! DOWN WITH WHITEY!
\_ could you elaborate on "this irony" for the more dense of us?
\_ Income tax enacted by Wilson, War on Poverty from Johnson,
Social Security and everything else from FDR, etc. etc. etc.
Liberals created the monster, but both political parties
avail themselves of it. A welfare state is not compatible
with liberty - the founders knew this in the 1700's, and said
as much.
\_ hey are you that guy with the mustache passing
Lyndon LaRouche literature on Sproul? You are
awesome. - danh
\_ Just curious, do you think that the Scandinavians
have liberty? Why or why not?
\_ I don't see why conservatives back Bush. Bush is about as
conservative as Castro is communist. Real conservatives want
US out of UN and US out of Israel, because we need to take care
of our own first. - Real Conservative.
\_ analgous argument for liberals and Gore (or the Democratic
party for that matter). - Real Liberal.
\_ do you regret voting for Nader?
\_ for one, I don't live in a contested state (FL), so,
no. However, even that aside, no, I don't regret it
since I don't think Gore would have done much for the
problems that I feel the country is faced with. I
think its ultimately more valuable for a thrid party
candidate like Nader to gain popularity than to
elect an almost-Republican to office.
\_ isolationism is dangerous. we are a global power;
castrating our foreign policy would be folly. --aaron
\_ unfortunately, what we are doing right now is
constantant expansion of our interest, much like
what British was doing 150 years ago. |
| 2003/4/15 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:28130 Activity:very high |
4/14 Well, Congress passed the "RAVE act." More astonishingly dumb policy
courtesy everyone's favorite idiotic Democrat, Joseph Biden.
Whatever happened to real libertarians that would make a stink
about this kind of thing?
\_ Passed out in the corner with an empty speedball syringe stuck
in their arm? In a K-hole? Just a guess.
\_ Yes! And tell me how raves aren't the same as crack houses?
\_ If you provided a link to the act or gave us a brief description of
it then we could decide for ourselves if it was "dumb policy"
instead of blindly taking your word for it.
\_ it's on the anti-RAVE act side of things, but
go read http://www.drugpolicy.org - danh |
| 2003/4/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28086 Activity:high |
4/11 http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c2229999/20980532.html Truly amazing. If we'd gotten butchered they would've said to bring the troops home to avoid Vietnam quagmire. We roll over them and they say that proves we didn't need to be there. Some people will twist anything to suit their agenda. \_ how many different ways do you listen to bill o'reilly? tv? radio? car radio? mp3 player? his stupid "oh I'm being oppressed!" newspaper column? fan fiction? truly amazing. \_ WTF are you talking about? I don't listen to BO'R and if I did so what? Ad hominen is not an effective debate tactic. \_ Where are those weapons of mass destruction? \_ Since there are over 1000 sites and the US/Brit forces don't yet have safe control of the country and they've only checked out 20 sites and it can take more than a week to test a sample and then double check it because in this case they *must* be certain, the WMD are either in labs all over the country or in some cases being tested right now. You expected what? Big glowing neon signs that say, "WMD HERE!"? |
| 2003/4/5 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:27997 Activity:high |
4/4 So why do people debate politics on the motd anyway? Is it just
three people who stupidly fall for each other's trolls? Do you
think that you are going to bring people around to your opinion
by posting absurdly leftist or rightist propaganda, and flaming
the hell out of people that disagree with you? Are you just
bored at work? Are you naive enough to think that, in spite of
the fact that you've been doing it for YEARS, shooting your
mouth off in a small private online forum is going to make a
whit of difference? Are you just idiots? -genuinely curious
\_ I don't know about you, but I learn things by reading and
considering other people's points of view. The axis of
considering other people's points of view. The range of
political ideas is considerably more complicated than the
binary leftist -> rightist axis you describe and while I
am not a conservative by any means, I have probably become
more moderate by reading ideas here. Sometimes I am just
trolling, sometimes I am bored at work, yes, but more often
am interested in exchanging ideas with other people. As
far as the "small private ... forum" part, what are the
alternatives? Have you tried posting to other online forums?
90% of the stuff is puerile insults. There are plenty of
insults on the motd, but at least most of them are clever
or backed with some kind of reference. -motd liberal
\_ agreed.
\_ From a conservative: There are several reasons for posting on the
motd. First, all of us are here posting due to boredom to some
degree or another and I don't mean just the political posters. As
far as why the political postings, on my part it is because this is
one of the few places on campus where one can have a political
discussion which doesn't instantly turn into "well, you're just a
nazi fascist racist so there!". And lastly my long term goal is to
see people such as the motd liberal posting above say they have
become more moderate by reading ideas here. Compared to the
typical Berkeleyan or San Franciscan I'm very conservative.
Compared to the rest of the country I'm anywhere from moderate to
liberal. This leads to the last reason for my posting. I find the
extreme left postings funny and amusing. They don't seem to have
any idea just how far left they really are. As source material for
my discussions I read multiple websites from the entire spectrum.
I read foreign websites. I read the left wing weeklies in the City
which call the Chronical and NYT a bastion of right wing oppression
and ultra conservatism. I have a reasonably decent understanding
of the thought process of the left and the right and those z-axis
folks as well and am perfectly happy to bag on any of them when
they get really stupid or use poor rhetorical techniques. Anyway,
what would you rather be all over the motd? Sports scores, stocks,
and when the next kernel update will be ready? You can get that
crap anywhere. Politics is about people. People are way more
interesting than that other stuff. I ignore the things I find
boring. I don't delete them. I don't comment on them. I simply
page down over them unread. If the politics bothers you so much, I
suggest you do the same. Oh yeah, it isn't just 3 people. It's
*very* easy to track who is posting to the motd using user level
available system tools. Start tracking for yourself. --motd cons.
\_ I couldn't have said it better myself(although perhaps I could
have been more brief.) I'm really amazed that poeple can see
all these interesting politics threads and actually prefer
some shit about pine, followed by a personal attack on pine
users. Why don't they just go to usenet? -another motd liberal |
| 2003/3/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27709 Activity:high |
3/15 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/14/moran.remarks "If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this." \_ is it really necessary to have two motd threads on this topic at the same time? \_ Jews should fight their own wars, it's nearly time the started. \_ yes, because the next point is "Did anyone see the dateline on NBC where they talked about how ashcroft && his zionistic party have been trying to get a "friendly" white house adminis. since the early 80s? And now we have to take an in increasing "fight israel's wars for them" stance as part of what is now called the "Bush Doctrine". \_ Jews should fight their own wars, it's nearly time they started. and without any "aid". \_ J00s 0wn0rz j00! \_ that aid is the only thing keeping israel from crushing all their neighbors who want them dead. they did just fine without any aid for several decades. as a pro-zionist i think they'd be better off not selling their souls for american money and doing unto their enemies what their enemies have been trying to do to them for more than half a century. \_ Isreal was the focal point for the Cold War in the Middle East. All of the conflicts were, at least in part, proxy wars between the US and the Soviets. \_ ok, ok, let's just get it over with (again): we all hate jews. there. doesn't that feel better to just say it? i know i feel better about hating jews now. you should too. \_ People forget that France did aid the fledgling state of Israel with fighter jets first. \_ I don't think Israel would go on a crushing rampage if we cut all our aid to them. Their economy right now is a bunch of crap and they have a couple of million impoverishered Palestinians with little to no economic future camped right next door. |
| 2003/3/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27660 Activity:high |
3/11 National Do-Not-Call law signed by Bush (slashdot). Serious
question: what was the last law that was actually aimed at helping
ordinary people-- something that made you say, "gee, that has
slightly improved my life"?
\_ tax cuts
\_ bingo! we have a winner!
\_ actually, the tax cuts have significantly improved my life.
\_ Hope you don't live in the unincorporated south bay
which will soon not have sheriff patrols because the
county can't afford it. Who needs govt servies??
\_ You must live a pathetic life if a 5 or 10% raise
significantly improves it. What, you couldn't afford
hookers before, and now you can?
\_ while it was not a law, i certainly applaud clinton's effort to
destigmatize oral sex.
\_ dunno about the destigmatization, but i sure do give interns
a second and third glance nowadays.
\_ The medical marijuana law improved my life, until Ashcroft
started stomping all over states rights. |
| 2003/2/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27356 Activity:low |
2/8 The Ashcroft/Bush menace tries to keep us down by illegally arresting
one of young America's greatest symbols!
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/delldude1.html
\_ You must be the guy that only listens to talk radio, right? |
| 2002/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26773 Activity:nil |
12/9 Why is Clarence Thomas hated?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/803541/posts?page=1,50
\_ Would you want a pubic hair in your coke?
\_ i don't know. are you hot? |
| 2002/12/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26732 Activity:nil |
12/5 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=358926 The American officer also had a low opinion of the Western journalists he met at Bagram. "They just hung around our base all day. Whenever we had some special operation, we'd offer the journalists some facility to go on patrol with our special forces and off they'd go - you know, 'we're on patrol with the special forces' - and they wouldn't realise we were stringing them along to get them out of the way." \_ Same author: http://www.counterpunch.org/fiskbeaten.html |
| 2002/12/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26701 Activity:insanely high |
12/2 Got plutonium? http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sfc/for/7146762.html \_ wow, how long before someone tracks this guy down and tosses his ass in a cell for 15 months before they decide he's not a threat? \_ He can be an "enemy combatant" and detained indefinately without access to a phone, let alone a lawyer. \_ ...and according to Ashcroft, just by suggesting that this might be a bad idea, you are helping the Terrorists. But that's ok. as long as people on the motd get to pay very slightly lower taxes they don't give a shit about due process or constitutional rights. \_ yes because if I voted for Bush and lower taxes it must be because I knew in advance that he'd appoint ashcroft and ashcroft is an idiot and I'm 100% behind anything Bush does or says as if it came from the Mouth Of God(c) because I'm a conservative. Or we could pretend we're adults and not paint those with differing viewpoints with a huge brush all in one color unless it makes us feel really smart even though it shouldn't. \_ When I was growing up, US keeps preaching to my country's government: "Detention without trial is wrong! blah blah blah". Now US is doing the exact same thing. This country has no self- respect. \_ The difference being that in China you murder people for reading the net and sending email. Here, we captured a bunch of bomb laden terrorist thugs and will hold them safe, fed, and far away alot of time in Pakistan. Where was the liberal outrage over Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.? Its clear this administration has not abused the powers its been delegated by the Patriot Act and HSA. Can't wait until Hillary or the next Clinton administration gets into office. until they stop trying to kill us all. See that subtle diff? \_ Huh? ... I have never been to China, unless you count Hong Kong, which was still under lease when I visited. Lots of countries faced threats much greater than thosed posed by some ragtag terrorists, with much less resources to fight against those threats. How fast US abandons its principles once it encounters some problems of its own. So much for its belief in freedom and due process, and the many who died fighting for these. At least, US knows now to shut its big mouth. \_ bomb laden? who was that? \_ the guy who paid for the 9/11 bombings and a bunch of other attacks? you've been on this planet right? \_ readingcomprehensionP \_ #f \_ All of TWO U.S. citizens have been detained. Both have access lawyers and have had their cases brought before judges. One is enemy-combatant, the other is useless scum who conveniently spent alot of time in Pakistan. Where was the liberal outrage over Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.? How has this administration abused the powers its been delegated by the Patriot Act and HSA. Can't wait until Hillary or the next Clinton administration gets into office. [fmtd] \_ Hundreds, perhaps thousands of non-citizens were swept off the \_ can you recomend a book or article or documentary or web site on Waco or Ruby Ridge? streets and kidnapped out of their houses in the middle of the night. The government will not release their names or let them talk to a lawyer. We do not know the conditions of their imprisonment or the term of their confinement. This is outrageous. \_ Why should there be liberal outrage? It's not like the guy at Ruby Ridge won a friggin' lawsuit against the Feds after they killed his wife and then used the money to fund extremist groups determined who want to overthrow the government. Gotta love Janet. Or maybe you think the same folks fucked up at Waco where they could have pulled DK off the street while he was shopping for groceries every week and instead laid on with the heavy jack boot siege which led to an inferno which directly caused the deaths of many people including several children. What's wrong with that? In both cases the victims were christian and didn't support the left. Death is the right answer. The candle lit vigils are only for the mass murderers and child rapists. \_ They were Christians? \_ Ruby Ridge and Waco, yes. The mass murderers only find Jesus after they're on death row which is too fucking late for their victims who no one (but their families) seems to remember or give a shit about. \_ The ACLU, which is a poster boy for the liberal left, was very upset over the abuses at Waco and Ruby Ridge. Go to their site and do a search and you will see all the stuff they did, including testifying to Congress, at the time. |
| 2002/12/2 [Recreation/Celebrity, Politics/Domestic/Election, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:26685 Activity:high |
12/1 [media liberal bias thread deleted. the media is biased to favor
the conservative side. if you think it is critical of conservatism,
it is only because the rightists are stupid fascist fuckheads, and
the media fairly protrays them as such. deal.]
\_ fuck you. why don't you just let people debate? pussy.
\_Leave it to the leftists to reveal their hypocrisies
and inconsistencies in the most embarassing fashion....
you make this too easy. Bad leftist!
\_ Ya know I was going to restore the thread but you've done a much
better job showing the left for what it is than I ever possibly
could. Thanks for your help! --conservative
\_ q.q.v. the bit about being fascist fuckheads.
\_ hey if someone on the motd calls me a stupid fascist fuckhead
it must be because it's true, right?
\_ Where is the diversity, love, and peace in this?
Someone seems very angry.
\_ his bong ran low and after he came down he looked around and
noticed jimmy carter wasn't in office anymore and got upset.
I'll get him some good shit from oakland and put him safely to
bed after he tokes up again. no worries.
\_ Multiple times on this thread I have pointed out, with references,
how false the conservative statements like "70-80% of all
reporters are registered Democrats." Everytime, it gets deleted.
And yet the conservatives still claim they are the ones being
censored. Ironic, isn't it? |
| 2002/12/1 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:26683 Activity:nil |
12/1 http://www.cjr.org/year/81/4/scaife.asp Yes, Scaife has donated 100s of millions to the far right and this was already by 1981. \_ are you going to provide some kind of context for this? are you replying to some post that got deleted, or am i just to dumb to understand why we all have a burning need to know about some rich guy's philanthropic interests from the early 80's? \_ It is in reply to a long and ongoing debate about right wing influence in the media. The subject has been debated in the motd numerous times. Scaife is still around and still doing the same thing, but with even more money. \_ See my full reply below. In short though, "BFD". \_ My answer is "so what?" What's the value of the free air time the left has given itself through ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN for the last few decades? It's a hell of a lot more than 1 man has donated to create a few think tanks and foundations to support what he believes in. This is still the US of A. He has a first amendment right to spend his money to get his views aired in public. I still don't understand why you think this make it some sort of grand conspiracy and is somehow unfair to the left who has owned the major media outlets for decades. I'd trade you what Scaife has done for the control you leftist have over TV and newspapers and I'd kick in an extra $10 for your lunch on top of it. Is this one of those things where the left believes only the left is allowed access to free speech and the media to get their message out and it's somehow a crime or illegal for the right to get any of that (even though the left gets it for free and the right has to pay for it because the major media outlets are so staunchly left biased)? \_ when almost everything on the "news" media is weather, sports, advertisements and fluff pieces about a drowning puppy, i don't see how either side can seriously say there is much of a political bias. how can there be a political bias where there is almost no serious coverage of politics? if you went looking for a bias between chevy and ford or coke and pepsi, you'd actually have some statistics. but democrat vs. republican? hah! \_ non-troll, but curious: where does it say in the First Amendment that we're guaranteed the right to spend our money to spread our political/religious/whatever views? \_ Where did you get the idea that large corporations like GE and Microsoft are leftist? \_ dict paranoia \_ Why is this even debated... 70-80%+ journalists admit their party affiliation is Democrat, as do 90+% academics. The news is slanted to sell corporations and products, that is the only non-left bias. \_ Where do you get these numbers? All the studies I have seen journalists "admit" to being centrist. \_ I post such stories and studies ad nauseum. Inevitably they are deleted rapidly. I'm not going to dig them up again. Just do a search or spend some time on conservative web sites. The news is generated in New York and LA, can you get any more liberal? Here's a start on Goldberg's book: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/3/215106.shtml |
| 2002/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26436 Activity:nil |
11/5 Gore in 4! Gore/Nader would be the ultimate winning ticket! |
| 2002/10/26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26326 Activity:moderate |
10/25 Democrat dies is a plane crash off setting the Rep/Dem balance of
power. The republicans did it.
\_ Yeah, the Dems have 3 dead people running in this election--
Wellstone, the senator in Hawaii, and Toricelli (oh wait, he just
sucked.)
\_ that Democractic missouri candidate died too and won. Ashcroft
lost that race. |
| 2002/10/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26208 Activity:insanely high |
10/16 "Pentagon to Help in Hunting Sniper"
http://csua.org/u/407
It's the second time in three weeks that the military is called into
domestic law enforcement. Have our law enforcement agencies become so
lame?
\_ As my manager, a former jarhead, says, "using marines as peacemakers
is insane. Marines' job is to KILL THINGS."
\_ the sniper is not just a normal criminal. this is someone
who has been trained as a soldier.
\_ I am into finding whoever the sniper(s) is,
and killing him.
\_ But they're gonna kill terrorists! RRRRAAAAGH! I LOVE
AMERICA!
\_ Don't worry, Ashcroft will make it legal for the military to
participate in domestic matters. It's for national security.
They didn't have terrorists back in the 1700's, so obviously our
Founding Fathers hadn't foreseen the implications of their Bill
\_ maybe you should law enforcement, hotshot.
\_ maybe you should join the law enforcement, hotshot.
of Rights.
\_ I said we just toss our stupid Constitution all together.
This 300 yr old document is way out-dated...
\_ Soon, we shall have soldiers stationed in our homes.
\_ What was the original idea of having that law back then?
\_ And a total violation of Posse Comitatus laws.
\_ What Pussy Coitus laws?
\_ maybe you should the law enforcement, hotshot.
\_ I can't find a verb in that sentince.
\_ What's a "sentince"?
\_ why don't they use national guard troops first?
\_ and how would you classify troops at large airports?
\_ absolutely useless.
\_ Technically it was domestic law enforcement, but that was 9/11
related. These two times they were a bank robbery at Nebraska
and then a psycho sniper killing random people. (Yeah, I know
Ridge hasn't ruled out terrorism on the sniper case.)
\_ would you draw a line between troops under civilian
command/control and military command/control?
\_ Not really. Airports are federal facilities and can troops
can be used to protect them. Not law enforcement, guard duty.
\_ its just surveillance aircraft. It would be useful to the
operation.
\_ Not really unless the perp is using the same vehicle and not
under cover when aircraft are finally put into the air. I would
suspect that other military resources (real-time satellite
photography) MIGHT be useful. But with all the press, I'm
guessing the perp will use a different MO for each new killing. |
| 2002/10/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26134 Activity:high |
10/8 Siebel scholar receipients:
University of California at Berkeley, Department of Engineering and
Computer Science: Katherine Everitt, Yaping Li, Anthony Lobay,
Manikandan Narayanan and John Edwards III
\_ The third. |
| 2002/9/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:25969 Activity:insanely high |
9/20 More Vast-Right Wing Conspiracy - but I thought it was all
about a blow job.
'Democrats Are Fined $243,000 for Fund-Raising Violations
(People's Republic of China)'
http://csua.org/u/2e1
\_ If you pack the FEC, you can get away with anything you want.
Bush violated the Fund-Raising laws by the tune of $2M but
got away with it on a 3-3 vote of the FEC:
http://www.fec.gov/members/sandstrom/sandstromreasons3.htm
Not to say that what Gore did was right, but both sides do
this kind of stuff all the time.
\_ I'm sorry, your analogy is 100% wrong. Clinton sold
out national security to COMMUNIST China for personal
gain. Bother to follow the Loral Space investigation,
I thought not.
The case you mention, unfortunately, describes
the state of election financing in this country, and
is peanuts compared the 1996 scandal.
the Ron Brown saga? I thought not.
for a campaign add - ubiquitous is elections. It was
The case you mention is about someone using soft-money
1996 scandal.
for a campaign add - ubiquitous in elections. It was
political ploy by McCain, peanuts compared to the
1996 scandal. You are being intellectual dishonest
to compare the two.
And FWIW, there were Republicans involved in the
1996 election scandals, the lewinsky affair was a
cover for them all. |
| 2002/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:25899 Activity:moderate |
9/15 McCain and Powell in '04
\_ what the fuck are you talking about? are you implying
that the republicans will dump bush, or that these
guys are going to defect to some other party?
\_ These guys will bring ethics and reason back to the
Republican party.
\_ when someone says "foo and bar in '04," where
foo and bar are prominent political figures, I
tend to assume they are implying that they
will run for president together. so let me
restate my question--what the fuck is the OP talking
about? if they're just saying that McCain and Powell
are great people, what does that have to do with
2004? aren't they great now? won't they be great
in 2005? |
| 2002/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25659 Activity:high |
8/22 mabye the bush supporters here would like to explain what internment
camps for US citizens stipped of all rights have to do with
the "core conservative values" you always drone on about.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0814-05.htm
LA times article by GW law professor about Ashcrofts plans
for US concentration camps for those deemed unloyal.
\_ Report to the re-education camps immediately.
\_ It is a subject that deserves more than just a
a few sentences in the MOTD or an article in the LA times.
If you want a serious discussion without demagoguery, including
links to ex parte Quirin and other relevant SCOTUS rulings
try these:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/735247/posts?page=1,50
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/733078/posts?page=51,50
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/736952/posts
\_ ok, so it seems freepers can see this for the blatant
attack on american freedoms it is. so why are they
so gung ho for Bush? he appointed Ashcroft.
everyone but total idiots knew he would appoint people
with Ashcrofts ideology. so why all the bush loving?
is it a lesser of evils thing?
also, i'd like to point out that one of your freeper links
is just a link to the same article i posted. -op
\_ Here. Read this. There are laws in the this country and
things are being taken care of. Just chill and relax and
smoke a bowl. You'll feel better knowing the system works.
Checks and balances, kids.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50967-2002Aug22.html
\_ 1. that's a seperate isssue: surveilance
2. you still haven't answered my question
3. your beloved bush administration is already chalenging
the decision.
Fine, I'll keep your links, but they are missing valuable
insight and information you will unlikely find elsewhere.
There is no competition of ideas, just punditry.
http://nyt.com/focus/news/735247/posts?page=1,50
http://nyt.com/focus/news/733078/posts?page=51,50
http://nyt.com/focus/news/736952/posts
\_ That's not the half of it. Check out this:
http://csua.org/u/1a4
\_ You see, in this country we have this thing we call 'the law' and
just because the La Times tells you someone plans on breaking the
law or has been breaking the law does not mean it is so. If in
fact some actually really does break the law then that has nothing
to do with conservative values. Let us know when it happens and
then there'll be something to talk about.
\_ The problem with links like this from sites with an obvious
political agenda is the entire piece is based on their claims of
the existance of plans for internment camps and rights stripping
for US citizens, however, they fail to provide any reference to
said plans and force the reader to take their word for it at face
value (which you apparently have) with no reliable evidence
what so ever. Whatever your own politics may be, and this applies
to everyone on the motd, it is important to carefully examine and
question the sources one relies upon for information and the basis
for one's views and beliefs. Without a reliable second or third
source, the reader is at the mercy of the agenda driven and we all
*know* people with an axe to grind will always twist a story or only
tell the parts (out of context) that support their views. This is
an 'intellectually dangerous' path to follow. Question everything.
\_ what part of US citizens arrested on US soil don't you
understand?
\_ there is this place called a prison where there are tons
of american citizens arrested and lots of illegal aliens as
well.
\_ US citizens get arrested all the time. That's what happens
when you break the law. I understand and enourage that sort
of thing. We even sometimes extradite people from other
counrties to this country to try and jail them. Seriously,
dude, you're going nowhere with that simplistic comment. |
| 2002/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:25657 Activity:insanely high |
8/22 try to figure this one out. "tax cuts are not spending restraint,
they are spending." Sen. Lieberman in Iowa recently.
\_ tax cuts would be restraint if there was not deficit spending.
spending cuts are spending restraint. tax cuts == more debt.
\_ his assertion here is that you are spending money by giving it
to whomever the tax cuts favor. typically, rich people.
\_ as opposed to cutting unemployment benefits and health
benefits which are spending restraint
\_ As opposed to giving free money to someone so they will
vote for you and for more money. Democrats core
philosophy is class warfare.
\_ Purpose of govt is the curb the strong and protect the weak
\_ No, the purpose of government is to maintain order,
PROTECT OUR BORDERS, enforce the law and otherwise stay
the fuck out of the way. Go read the federalist papers
or the constitution or *something*. Civics, it does a
body good.
\_ Republicans just give the money to their rich friends instead.
Which is class warfare too, just of a different kind.
\_ You are wrong, conservatives want the
people who EARNED the money to keep it. Imagine
that, rewarding initiative.
\_ Hah! See? You all hate poor people! Don't you know
that the rich have a moral obligation to take care of
the poor? You can afford it even if you're still
paying a greater share of taxes by percent of your
income, by percent of the total tax take, and by a few
other percent counting methods (all of them, actually),
even after all the so-called tax breaks. Vicious, evil
money grubbers just don't understand what it's like to
be put down by The Man all the time! Send more free
money I haven't earned and I'll vote for you! -Democrat
\_ Ah, so the guilty liberal conscious finally
rears its ugly head. You are more than welcome
to subsidize whoever you want, whatever you
want, whenever you want.
However, when you take 40% of my money by coercion
to pay for Socialized everything that is tyranny!
Don't you see the inherent racism in your
comment - the unwashed masses (eg. brown people)
need me, the gallant liberal, to define
their existence. Fucking disgusting.
\_ you're both unconvincing. the above troll
clearly is bullshitting, and i don't believe
you are really what you say you are either.
train harder.
\_ it wasn't a troll, moron. its called sarcasm
and maybe irony & a touch of hyperbole as
well. it isn't my fault if _both_ of you are
too stupid to see it. at least the Right
recognised the Left's philosophy in my
so-called troll, whereas the Left is incapable
of recognising what they look like outside
their tight little Anti-Think niche. -!troll
\_ Tax cuts are no different than spending as far as keeping a balanced
budget is concerned.
\_ However there is an important distinction between spending which
means draining the economy of money through taxes for some sort
of artificial redistribution plan (communism) and reducing taxes
which requires lowering spending across the board and reducing
the size of government (one of the things true conservatives
believe in). And who said a balanced budget is good anyway?
Debt is not always bad. It depends on how big your debt, at
what rate(s), for what purpose(s) and how much you need to pay
back vs. your income.
\_ We're paying something like 25-33% of our national income
toward interest on our debt. Is that good debt?
\_ Liar. Or ignorant fool.
\_ Well "something like" could mean anything from 0-100.
\_ I'm not a specialist in macro-economics. I have no idea.
\_ Artificial redistribution plans? Like farm subsidies?
\_ Actually, yes, like farm subsidies and welfare, and a
whole bunch of other stupid wasteful programs that destroy
this country's soul. Yes. Artificial redistribution.
\_ Yeah, and public education. Another communist plot.
\_ Actually, I knew some Berkeley students who did
denounce public education as "communist". It
baffles me that someone who thinks so low of
public education decided to go to Berkeley.
\_ Right thats why evil vouchers would
allow those who pay the taxes in the first
place to choose a school for their children.
Freedom of choice, that is anticommunist.
And have you bothered to investigate
any of the allegations made? Our public
education system is in ruin, despite an throwing
endless stream of money at it. Yet, you
never stop to ask yourself why that is.
\_ Wow -- you sound like a true libertarian.
Sign your posts, man. I'm curious to know
who you are -- honest-to-god libertarians are
rare -- esp in berkeley. -mice
\_ <DEAD>www.geekpad.org<DEAD> is a house full of 'em...
in berkeley.
\_ I'm not at all libertarian but I 100% agree
with the above on the totally worthless
public schools and vouchers. And btw, this
country didn't always have public schools, yet
somehow the earth kept spinning and the sun
rose in the east every morning. Go figure. |
| 2002/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:24722 Activity:nil |
5/4 God bless George Carlin:
I Am Your Worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American.
I am George Carlin.
I like big cars, big hooters, and big paychecks. I believe the money I
make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental
functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack
addicts squirting out babies.
I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, you'd better do it in
English.
I'm not in touch with my feelings and I like it that way. I believe
that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.
I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer.
I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse
Jackson preaches. And where does he get his money. And why is he
always part of the problem and not the solution.
I believe if she has her lips on your willie, it is sex, and it is sex
for both of you. This even applies when you are President of the
United States.
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment
than working at Blockbuster. In fact, if your parents are footing the
bill to put your pansy ass through 4-7 years of college, you haven't
begun to be enlightened.
I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God or gods, just
leave the rest of us out of it. This also applies to sexuality.
I believe it's called the Boy Scouts for a reason.
I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized.
I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for
unpopular opinions or actions.
I think fireworks should be legal on the 4th of July.
My heroes are John Wayne, the Simpsons, and whoever canceled Dr.
Quinn, Medicine Woman.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.
I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it.
I think global warming is a big lie. Where are all those experts now,
when I am freezing my ass through a long winter?
I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, I didn't wander forty years
in the desert after getting chased out of Egypt, I haven't burned any
witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you, so shut
up already.
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you're
running from them. I also think they have the right to pull your ass
over if you are breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.
I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want
you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation of the
world for the next four years.
I think if you are in the passing lane, and not passing, your license
should be revoked, and you should be forced to ride the bus until you
promise to never delay the rest of us again.
I think beef jerky could quite possibly be the perfect food.
I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please
don't pretend they are a political statement.
I think Dr. Seuss was a genius.
I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the
mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.
If that makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American.
If you too are a BAD American please forward this to everyone you
know.
We need our country back! |
| 2002/3/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:24056 Activity:kinda low |
3/7 So I get my ballot and stick it in the machine and punch a bunch
of holes and pull it out and check and sure enough using a machine
just like the shitty ones in Florida, there wasn't a single extra
bit hanging out anywhere. It was a series of perfectly cut out little
squares. I've probably got some special technique they're not aware
of in Florida... or something.
\_ Woohoo. Based on your one ballot, you now have your career set up
in front of you as an elections consultant in Florida. Have fun.
\_ You mean I'm now qualified to count chads? Sweet! What about
pregnant chads from the old folks too weak to apply 1.5 psi?
Can I count those? What does it take to be able to properly
"interpret the meaning" in a ballot? I really want that job.
\_ Damn. Forgot to vote. When is the next time they are running
this pilot? |
| 2002/1/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:23580 Activity:nil |
1/16 Another student goes on a rampage and kills professor and dean
at East Coast Law School. Haven't found link yet. They
say it was over grades.
\_ http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/16/law.school.shooting.ap |
| 2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:23413 Activity:high |
12/29 NYT Opinion piece deleted. The NYT is the left wing version of Rush,
but you don't see anyone posting his noise on here. It's only
entertainment, not news or unbiased reporting in either case.
\_ What about all the Free Republic stuff I see all the time?
\_ Thanks, I thought there for a minute a reasonably
intelligent debate on something of immense national
security importance was going on. Phew!
\_ After someone else deleted the debate for the fourth time
without comment, I figured it was better to remove the whole
thing rather than glorify the NYT Opinion section with
valuable space on the motd. If they didn't like where the
debate they started was going they shouldn't post bait for it.
\_ NYT articles arguing in favor of the SDI are left wing?
Can I have a hit of whatever you are smoking? |
| 2001/1/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:20217 Activity:moderate |
1/2 Looks like Nader is taking another beating. CSCO down 13%
\_ whee!
\_ huh?
\_ nader has several million in cisco stock |
| 2000/12/14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:20101 Activity:high |
12/13 http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2768-2000Dec13.html Different groups can't even agree which votes are in dispute, much less how to re-re-re-re-re-count them.... \_ I'm very interested in whether they'll have any success here. I trust the liberal L.A. Times more than the GOP for a report on how counts would have turned out if a single, state-wide standard for under/overvotes were taken. Even if the liberal L.A. Times reports "Broward was bad mm-kay, because the indented ballots were entirely subjective." \_ Trying to determine what someone intended when there's anything other than a clear punch is subjective. I trust the late night psychic hotline woman more than the LA Times. \_ Go away (right-leaning) troll. Even the Republican counsel at the Supreme Court hearing implied that a penetrated ballot could count as a legal vote. |
| 2000/11/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19852 Activity:nil |
11/19 A few things for the FL Supreme Court to consider: Separation of
Powers, partisan nature of the canvassing boards, a lower circuit
court having ruled in Harris's favor (Democrat judge), the recount
isn't going to make a difference, hypocritical Dems purging 1000+
military ballots in violation of FL election laws while saying every
vote should count, and no judge anywhere wants to touch this hot
potato. My bet is they rule Judge Lee was correct, the counts can
continue but Harris can ignore them, and the final tallies won't
change anything and all the other suits out there will be thrown out
by the lower court judges because they don't want to be responsible
for continuing the mess Gore started. |
| 2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19800 Activity:nil |
11/16 WPB officials deny request for hand recount: In the 1984 Palm Beach election, more than 310,000 ballots were cast. The margin between two County Commission candidates was 242 votes. The loser in that race and in others on the ballot protested, among other things, the hanging chad problem. Officials denied a request for a hand recount. http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/decision/035445.htm |
| 2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19787 Activity:nil |
102.166 Protest of election returns; procedure.-- (1) Any candidate for nomination or election, or any elector qualified to vote in the election related to such candidacy, shall have the right to protest the returns of the election as being erroneous by filing with the appropriate canvassing board a sworn, written protest. (2) Such protest shall be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested or within 5 days after midnight of the date the election is held, whichever occurs later. (3) Before canvassing the returns of the election, the canvassing board shall: (a) When paper ballots are used, examine the tabulation of the paper ballots cast. (b) When voting machines are used, examine the counters on the machines of nonprinter machines or the printer-pac on printer machines. If there is a discrepancy between the returns and the counters of the machines or the printer-pac, the counters of such machines or the printer-pac shall be presumed correct. (c) When electronic or electromechanical equipment is used, the canvassing board shall examine precinct records and election returns. If there is a clerical error, such error shall be corrected by the county canvassing board. If there is a discrepancy which could affect the outcome of an election, the canvassing board may recount the ballots on the automatic tabulating equipment. (4)(a) Any candidate whose name appeared on the ballot, any political committee that supports or opposes an issue which appeared on the ballot, or any political party whose candidates' names appeared on the ballot may file a written request with the county canvassing board for a manual recount. The written request shall contain a statement of the reason the manual recount is being requested. (b) Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested or within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election was held, whichever occurs later. (c) The county canvassing board may authorize a manual recount. If a manual recount is authorized, the county canvassing board shall make a reasonable effort to notify each candidate whose race is being recounted of the time and place of such recount. (d) The manual recount must include at least three precincts and at least 1 percent of the total votes cast for such candidate or issue. In the event there are less than three precincts involved in the election, all precincts shall be counted. The person who requested the recount shall choose three precincts to be recounted, and, if other precincts are recounted, the county canvassing board shall select the additional precincts. (5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing board shall: (a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the vote tabulation system; (b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software; or (c) Manually recount all ballots. (6) Any manual recount shall be open to the public. (7) Procedures for a manual recount are as follows: (a) The county canvassing board shall appoint as many counting teams of at least two electors as is necessary to manually recount the ballots. A counting team must have, when possible, members of at least two political parties. A candidate involved in the race shall not be a member of the counting team. (b) If a counting team is unable to determine a voter's intent in casting a ballot, the ballot shall be presented to the county canvassing board for it to determine the voter's intent. (8) If the county canvassing board determines the need to verify the tabulation software, the county canvassing board shall request in writing that the Department of State verify the software. (9) When the Department of State verifies such software, the department shall: (a) Compare the software used to tabulate the votes with the software filed with the Department of State pursuant to s. 101.5607; and (b) Check the election parameters. (10) The Department of State shall respond to the county canvassing board within 3 working days. |
| 2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Reference/Law/Court] UID:19785 Activity:very high |
11/15 I am typically not so blunt, but does anybody else think that the
Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris is a total bitch? She is
not even trying to pretend to be non-partisan. Which cabinet post or
ambassadorship has she been promised?
\_ so she should break the law to please Gore? all she is doing is
following the law put there to protect the will of the people and
preserve fairness.
\_ Yes. We need to ELECT GORE BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
The law is irrelevant, only ELECTING GORE matters!
\_ Read the law you dipshit. Title 9, Chapter 102.166. It's very
clear about hand recounts being totally legal. They have followed
that law to the letter
Here you go _/
\_ reformatted in the interest of space. I
believe that its (2) that you want to read.
Gore is trying to break the LAW, and Ms. Harris
is trying to do her job (uphold the LAW). Last
I checked we were a nation of LAWS and no one
including GORE was ABOVE THE LAW.
\_ Uh, yes. Gore protested with the canvassing board
within 5 days of the election. So yes, Gore did
what he had to do. This says nothing about that
bitch having any right to try to stop the counts
like she did this morning. And I can't wait until
the Florida Supreme Court gets its hands on this
case firmly. They are all Democratically-appointed
judges. |
| 2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19744 Activity:very high |
11/12 Ok, so WPB had a lot of stupid people so they're getting a "do-over".
Why are they also recounting 3 other heavily Dem counties? I haven't
heard a reason other than "county shopping".
\_ Democratic counties are using punch-hole ballots. 32 errors
per 1000. The richer Republican counties are using scan-tron
ballots. 1 error per 1000. Secondly, Bush's team didn't ask for
recounts in his Republican counties within the 72-hour legal
deadline. Gore's team did. --PeterM
\_ So you're all for law and order? Are you also in favor of the
5pm certification deadline on Tuesday or opposed because in
that case, the law doesn't support your political position?
C'mon.. let's see the twisted reasoning for only following the
law when it suits your political cause. Gore is a crybaby and
is killing this country. -N'04!
\_ Actually, I'm in favor of a recount for Bush too. However,
in his rich counties with the scan-tron ballots, he's going
to get few new votes because of voting count error. --PeterM
\_ C'mon Peter. You ducked the question. Are you in favor
of following the law which states that Tuesday 5pm is
the deadline for turning in certified tallies or not?
This isn't a softball press conference with Barbara
Walters. This is the motd and you can't get away with
that shit and not get called on it.
\_ I didn't respond because I don't know the Florida
law on the 5pm deadline. I've seen it characterized
as an arbitrary rule imposed by the Republican
Sec'y of state and not a law at all. If it is a law
it should be followed, unless it is contradictory
to some other law, in which case a court must rule
on it. In the absence of credible data on whether
the 5pm deadline is a law or not, I have no opinion
on the topic. Is that clear, Mr. X? --PeterM
\_ This isn't something the Democrats want because it would
trigger a full check and investigation of not only
'irregularities' in Florida but other states as well.
The Dems have a lot more to fear from a countrywide
cleaning of ballots than the Repubs. You don't hear the
Daley/Gore ticket suggesting this happen and for a good
reason. They're not looking for a fair and accurate
count. They're fishing. Turn it around. If Gore was
in Bush's position would you tell him to sit back and
relax and take it like a man if Bush was cherry picking
which votes to "clean" and having it done by partisan
Repubs? Uh huh... thought so. Thanks for playing. You
can try again in 2004. So will we. Green in '04!
\_ rationale is that there were ballot irregularities which may have
resulted in many ballots being discounted. more specifically, the
ballot machines will not read your ballot if there are any
dangling bits of paper (instead of clean-punched holes). in a
race where the ultimate decision may be made on the basis of a few
hundred votes, it makes sense to be absolutely sure.
\_ Spoken like a true Gore apologist. Gore wants a recount in only
Democratic counties so that he can eke out a win handing to him
by partisian vote counters (they are all Democrats).
\_ There were irregularities all over Florida starting with the
media reporting the state went to Gore 70 minutes before the
heavily Republican west panhandle closed their polls. Let's
let all of the panhandle revote! DO OVER!
\_ Bah! It's likely that *more* Republican voters turned out in
the panhandle to try to win back the state.
\_ You seriously believe that? Don't be daft. |
| 2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19739 Activity:insanely high |
11/12 The paragraph third from the bottom is my favorite. They've
certified 800 more votes countywide in WPB than the precint by
precint number reported from election night. Not only are the
dead voting, they're voting a bit late this year in WPB.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=65000590
\_ Do you actually understand the failure rates of mechanical
punch-vote systems? A second revote, in a pure mechanical-
system, will certify more votes. A hand recound will get
even more.
\_ You you understand no one from any party was claiming any sort
of mechanical failure? Did you see Lepore this morning make it
\_ Do you understand no one from any party was claiming any sort
of mechanical failure? Did you see LePore this morning make it
clear this was voter error and not in any way machine error?
LePore is the Democrat who designed the ballot and one of the 3
Democrats on the WPB board that voted to do a full hand recount.
Recount the whole state or none of it. Shit happens everywhere.
\_ I think the democrats would be quite happy to recount the
whole state. It's clear that there's a mechanical error;
two mechanical counts arrived at significantly different
numbers, and then a test count by hand found even more of a
discrepancy. That's separate from the ballot design issue.
-tom
\_ That depends on what your definition of "significant" is.
Or was that "is is"? I have trouble keeping up. And of
course a partisan committee found "even more of a
discrepancy". The Dems know exactly how many more votes
they need to steal to rob the election. I'm still bitter
that Gore stole my man's votes. -N'04! |
| 2000/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19731 Activity:moderate |
11/11 Back to election talk: Someone asked on wall why they didn't
use the touch screens that Riverside had. Here's a quote from
a cnn article:
But the technical standards for elections and the conduct of
elections in the United States that we are all seeing graphically
and clearly for the first time are that it's extremely decentralized.
It operates at the state level, rather than the federal level. In fact,
most of the job of the elections in putting everything in place, even
to the point of designing and printing the ballots, is done at the
level of county and local jurisdictions.
There's a beauty to that, in that it's a safeguard against any attempt
to take over or manipulate the election system in national elections.
On the other hand, what we are seeing is that it also leads to some
uneven quality standards and not a following across the board of best
practices or of use of best available technology.
\_ Look at the ballot and tell me what was so damn confusing:
http://www.jokeslayer.com/Pictures/FloridaBallot.gif
\_ I might have been the one you were talking about, and I'm fully
aware that the elections are run by the states and not the
feds, but apart from not being able to write in candidates
(someting I'm sure will be fixed within the next two years),
the touch screen system they had in Riverside was everything
you could want. -hjkim
\_ So what was so great about the touch screens? I haven't seen
them and know nothing about them.
\_ from what I've seen/heard: it's not confusing and it
doesn't tie the voter to a specific polling location
\_ I didn't find the WPB ballot confusing either so maybe
this isn't as useful as it sounds. Frankly, I think we
*want* to ditch the ballots of anyone too stupid to vote
correctly. This is a good thing, not bad. |
| 2000/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19729 Activity:nil |
11/10 Kids voting on FL ballot!
http://news.shreveporttimes.com/111000/101/14163.htm |
| 2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19712 Activity:nil |
11/10 http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/10/latimes.election.official For those of you wondering why all vote counts have been increasing in the recount. \_ Quote remove in the interst of space. Go to the URL if you care. Summary: punchcard machines don't work right if you fail to read directions and punch out your ballot without making sure the little piece of paper gets separated from the ballot. |
| 2000/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19708 Activity:high |
11/9 Ok, looking at a close-up of the disputed Palm Beach ballot, WTF
is the problem?? The "5->" clearly points to one hole.
\_ the problem is you are looking at the ballot knowing that
there is an issue.
\_ Ok, suppose I'm a Palm Beach resident. I go into the booth
not knowing there's any problem, and knowing I want to vote
for Gore. How could I possibly punch "<-4" and not "5->"?
\_ I see Gore is second, so I punch the second hole.
\_ it was set up with the intention of confusing voters
that don't bother reading the ballot. I mean, why the
hell the second major opponent (whether democratic
or republican) be "the third hole?!!!" Most normal
ballots have the two major political forces as the
first two holes. I smell a conspiracy...as pointed
out on television, why would this type of ballot only
exist in a county there the majority of residents
(blacks and jewish) are pro-Gore? It doesn't add up.
\_ A conspiracy? Uhm, yeah. The ballot was created by
Democrats. Approved by Democrats. Published in the
newspapers. What friggin conspiracy? This wasn't
a hidden secret ballot popped up out of nowhere on
the unsuspecting populace. And while you're at it,
please explain how this conspiracy has changed the
results in other places like, oh, say, the exact same
ballot format where Jesse Jackson and "My Dad Stole
1960" Daley voted?
\_ apart from the much publicized "x to the right of
the name," the fact that Gore was the third hole
might also make the ballot illegal since Florida
law dictates that the candidates be listed in the
order of finish in the last gubernatorial race,
and I'm pretty sure the Reform Party didn't finish
second
\_ NO! NO! NO! GO READ THE LAW! Stop getting your
news off the tube! *I* _read_ the law and it does
*not* in any way dictate any such thing! Stop
spreading lies and propoganda! --Nader'04!
\_ Well, nowhere in the Constitution does it say voters have
to have any intelligence to vote. It's their own damn
fault for not reading & understanding the ballot clearly.
\_ Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that
voters should be given illegal ballots.
\_ its not illegal. Forms like that have been
used in the past, and the Democratic Official
for that area approved that ballot.
\_ Gore people are working to prove that it
is illegal. I think that's as much as can
be said on the pro-Gore side. And control
yourself next time, Senor "Prove it, bitch".
\_ That's a much different (and weaker) assertion
than "Florida law says it's illegal." Why
not admit you simply did not speak the truth?
Bitch.
\_ People like you need to sign their names.
Really.
\_ Nah. He just need a good bitch slap.
\_ Some of us (me) actually found the law on the
official Florida website. The idea that this
ballot was in any way illegal is a sham.
\_ Actually, it is technically illegal. By
Florida state law, the Democratic option
was supposed to be placed where Pat
Buchanan's spot was (which wasn't the case).
See S101.151(4) and S101.191(1999)
\_ Go re-read the entire law. This is not
so. Don't pick and choose individual
lines that support a particular
conclusion. The lawyers get paid a lot
more than you to do that already.
\_ It's 95% clear, that is, it was clear to 95% of Gore voters
in Palm Beach.
\_ also, it penalizes only stupid gore supporters. stupid bush
supporters were not given the same dilemma.
\_ There was no dilemma, only people too stupid to vote.
\_ But they are able to vote. Some of them must support Bush.
Those ones didn't have to be smart enough to read directions.
Besides, with a margin of 0.01% or so, the too-stupid-too-vote
probably make the difference.
\_ You really want the "too-stupid-too-vote" people deciding
who the President is? Honestly, if this was the exact same
situation except the names were reversed would you be saying
the vote in Hicktown, USA should get another chance bcause
Bubba was still hungover from his moonshine binge? No,
you probably wouldn't. Don't let your political bias color
your decision making process. --Nader'04! |
| 2000/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19702 Activity:nil |
11/9 Congress and Supreme Court issue order for nation-wide presidential
run-off election:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html |
| 2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19697 Activity:nil |
11/9 I know this is unlikely (and not related to current election), but
what happens if there is a tie, either in the popular vote within a
state (barring voting irregularities, inconsistencies, ballot
stuffing, etc) or at electoral state level?
\_http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/toc.html
\_ I think that it goes to the house. |
| 2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19687 Activity:high |
11/9 In regards to the presidential race, check out ~dpetrou/petition.
\_ Don't be stupid. We don't have grade school "do-overs" in this
country because some morons can't read. In fact, I find it
frightening that anyone would seriously consider as valid the
opinion of someone so stupid they can't figure out how to punch
out a ballot properly. There *is* a minimum requirement in this
country to vote. You must be able to poke the right hole and only
one hole. If you can't do something *that* simple your
\_ look, even aspo, an otherwise intelligent individual, can't
figure out that he's been poking the wrong hole all along
\_ What if we have a legally enforced 'do-over'?
vote gets tossed out. Give it up. This is a Gore pipe dream.
\_ The ballot form looks reasonably clear to me. - Gore supporter
\_ The other equitable, but probably not legal, option would be
to take the ballots which selected multiple candidates and
give each candidate selected a fractional vote.
\_ That's not fair, then Gore would win.
\_ then i would want to switch my vote from nader to bush if they
get to do that crap.
\_ it would be hillarious if there were three rounds of,
"Okay, now whoever wants to switch votes, do so now"
{deleted a few older threads to save space, not to censor them} |
| 2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19675 Activity:nil |
11/8 http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/11/08/politics2207EST1052.DTL&type=election For those who don't read the wallog. It's about the 19,000 ballots thrown out in Palm Beach Florida. |
| 2000/11/1 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19618 Activity:nil |
10/31 For those who claimed that Nader is a socialist, I'm very sorry
but you should read what the Socialists have to say about him
(they don't like him -- cuz he's a capitalist). Check out:
http://www.igc.org/saction/news/200008/nader2.html
\_ No dude, <DEAD>www.VoTeNaDeR.org!!!<DEAD>
\_ It all depends on the what the meaning of "is" is. Nader
and his Nuts are basically soft-core socialists, since
they don't want to turn ever enterprise into a public
works project like the hard-core socialists. A few crippled
businesses is okay in Nader's book. Its all a matter of
how damn wrong you are. Socialists are completely wrong,
while Nader is almost completely worng. |
| 2000/10/31-11/1 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:19617, category id '18005#6.77785' has no name! , ] UID:19617 Activity:insanely high 66%like:19614 |
10/30 We don't care about slashdot, and we know Nader's a crack Raider.
\_ Are Nader's supporters called Naders' Nuts?
\_ [Comments deleted]
\_ but would he raid yermom's crack?
\_ C'mon, Nader and all his college buddies know that this
isn't a big deal.
\_ http://www.VoteNader.org kick ass on the putrid powerstructure dude! |
| 2000/10/31-11/1 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:19615, category id '18005#6.34122' has no name! , ] UID:19615 Activity:high |
10/30 All polls, voting, tooth paste/POE, and other complete crap deleted.
\_ <DEAD>www.VoteNader.org!!!<DEAD>
\_ [www site promoting particular candidate with zero chance of
anything deleted]
\_ How dare you say that about mah mommy Bushie???
\_ Try http://www.VoteNader.org instead
\_ [deleted again] |
| 2000/10/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19613 Activity:nil |
10/30 Just reading slashdot, and I can't believe that fool Nader:
"I'd really put meat in the process of progressive taxation.
The richer people are, the more the percentage you pay.
After all, it's their influence that rigged the system to get
them that rich to begin with. And, second, we should tax
things we don't like. We should tax stock market speculation.
We should tax pollution. We should tax activities that we
don't like, like sprawl, in order to get a better planning
system and better zoning system. And we should lighten the
taxes on things we do like, like honest labor, like food."
Do you Nader people actually believe this bullshit?
1. People got rich because they rigged "the system"? Yeah,
people who earned degrees at schools like Cal and then
worked 80 hours a week at compaines to generate revenue
of thier companies which translated into value for thier
options somehow rigged the system to "get rich". |
| 2000/10/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election, ERROR, uid:19607, category id '18005#41.2038' has no name! , ] UID:19607 Activity:insanely high |
10/30 Thinkers, no-bullshitters, egalitarians, civil rights enthusiasts,
people opposed to imbalance of power/fascism, and for the environment,
please support the NADER campaign. http://www.votenader.org
If you're too scared to vote for Nader because you think Bush is
worse than Gore (hah!), at least get a friend to vote for Nader
in a state where Gore will win anyway. <DEAD>www.nadertrader.org<DEAD>
\_ Can you please tell me what states these are? I
am considering voting for Nader (or convincing
friends to) but havent found any good polls-by-
state to base my decision on.
\_ The <DEAD>nadertrader.org<DEAD> site has this information.
\_ FYI, California is not a Gore-secure state
\_ Thank God, but I'm still waiting for the
day when CA wakes up and realizes that
liberalism is a failure.
And for sure sign the petition to ask Gore to step down and let
Nader take the lead, http://www.PetitionOnline.com/ydg
great comments there...
\_ listen, troll. there are two kinds of people who talk about
politics on the motd: librtarians and communists. everyone
else gave up along time ago except for trolls. nader is
neither a libertarian nor a communist, therefore you are a troll.
\_ Nader is a socialist, he believes govt can solve problems.
He wants to reform govt by making govt larger... it doesnt make
any sense.
In fact, govt, in its current form (ie. size), IS the problem.
If you are going to vote for a third party, Harry Browne
(Libertarian) is by far the best choice.
\_ Libertarian ideas seem sensible, but the only reason I won't
\_ Nader's campaign is a giant vanity project, he
has no chance of winning, every vote he gets makes
it more likely the Beelzebubba I mean george w bush
will get elected. yeah you can sit around all day
and say how noble and uncompromising nader is, but
the other 2 in the race have spent their lives as
politicians, where you have to compromise, and occasionally
make choices that will be unpopular 20 years later. nader
doesn't have this problem since he has studiously avoided
elected office his entire life, but that doesn't make
him the best man for the job - danh
vote for a libertarian is because the libertarian platform
on the environment is, "Well, if the land that needs protection
is privately owned, then the owners will recognize the value
of not trashing it." I think that's a huge oversimplification
of the issue. What is meant by "value"? Value is often a
comparision of one thing to another for a particular person.
Is a forest worth more to its owner than a billion dollars?
"Lets see, the cost to the rest of the planet is small and
distributed collectively. So I'll take the billion dollars."
-- jeffwong
\_ This position pertains to development of natural resources
on public lands - in other words if they have to
pay a fair price for the land.
\_ What is with the obsession some people have for the
"environment"? Its a bunch of damn trees. get over it.
\_ Actually, Nader is an anti-corporatist, he wants to reduce fascist
control of our lives while protecting our rights and our planet.
On what basis do you claim he wants to increase government?
\_ http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html You tell me. They are evil
and insane, and Darth Nader is their leader.
\_ Nader would de-privatize America. He wants to disassemble the
greatest economic system in the history of the world.
\_ Greatest economic system??? That's a laugh!
If you want quality of life, and something for future
generations, and a healthy society, this economy fails.
\_ If Nader has admitted
\_ Really? I have a better quality of life than my
parents, and my children (if I have any) will have
a better life than me. Its all thanks to capitalism
and american exceptionalism.
\_ Um, actually, <DEAD>nadertrader.org<DEAD> is the greatest economy
\_how does it follow a consumer advocate would dismantle
an economy? educated consumers increase the efficieny of
the market.
\_ He is not a consumer advocate, he is a weird freakish
man that hates corporations. He doesn't help educate
consumers he simply scares them and threatens companies.
Competition increases the efficiency of the market, not
fear mongering weirdos. If you are thinking about voting
for Nader, you might try the COMMUNIST party instead.
tirade from Nader.
\_ Ironic that he's against fluoride, ay? :)
Protect your precious bodily fluids!!!
\_ that he's a consumer advocate is well known,
provide proof otherwise. same for accusation that
he hates all corporations. educated consumers do
increase the efficiency of the market. don't
spout drivel you can't support.
\_ He's not a consumer advocate. He simply
attacks companies and products he doesn't
like. The free market has created better
safer and more useable products than any
tirade from Nader. Innovation in the high
tech sector (cisco, sun, intel, etc) happened
because innovation generates money in a
free market. Nader would stifle this sort
of innovation.
\_ he campaigns against flouride, for heaven's sake.
The guy's a crackpot. -tom
Furthermore he has called for the breakup
of the banking system and the fortune 500
along with more regulation on small business.
If that doesn't mean he's against corporations
I guess you are just more clued into Naders
propoganda than I am.
\_ it's only up for debate by crackpots.
It's like Mumia's guilt. -tom
Where do you get this notion that educated
consumers increase the efficiency of the
market? DUH, companies trying to make a profit
and increase shareholder wealth increase the
efficiency of the market.
\_ I love how anonymous crackpot cowards
use ad hominem attacks. How do you think
"conventional wisdom" got that way?
What do dentists have to gain from
water flouridation? It's not like it's
some major cash cow for industry; in
fact it reduces dentist's revenues by
reducing tooth decay problems, especially
in poor neighberhoods. Do a web search
on "water flouridation", it's obvious
that the only people negative on it are
crackpots. Like Nader. Sign your name,
coward. -tom
\_ My dentist said fluoride is very harmful in
the water and only effective for children
\_ it's called "accountability" -tom
your ignorance is a fact, not an attack.
but to the flouridation argument; you
miss the point. the issue is not
whether flouridation helps teeth, it's
how much flouride children get in
their systems from all sources. but
you still haven't offered a reasoned
dismal of nader yet. go ahead,
continue to ignore the topic if you
like, and hope i forget.
\_ the topic is that he's a crackpot,
and you haven't offered a reasoned
dismal [sic] of that. -tom
of a certain age if taken in a certain way.
\_ is that the best you can do? the effect of
\_ why should I come up with a
"reasoned dismal" of Nader when
you haven't said anything to
support him? -tom
flouride in our water is up for debate.
pick something else.
\_ okay, that is the best you can do.
no doubt you base all your opinions on
conventional wisdom and rely on ad
hominem attacks to distract from
your ignorance. your hallmark, actually.
\_why sign names? it's not verifiable,
and it's only egoistic in a debate.
\_ why should i defend against
unsupported accusations. |
| 2000/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19595 Activity:very high |
10/29 http://www.speakout.com/VoteMatch Has anyone tried this and got the correct match? \_ you are Unclear on the Concept. The URL points out what is the correct match for you. The question is, were you smart enough to figure out who \_ granted Bush is a glorified Quayle, but you dont want a tax cut? \_ granted Bush is a glorified Quayle... This aside, dont you want a tax cut? Maybe you should give voluntary donations to the federal govt. best fits you before taking the questionaire. \_ Based on the tone of the question, the poster was rudely surprised, which begs the questions, Original Poster, who was your closest match? \_ yes. democrats are the closest to my viewpoints, then nader, then the liberal republicans...and pat buchanan last. \_ Basically it told you that you are RED COMMIE PIG SCUM. \_ it got me right. -lila \_ moi aussi, I'm a populist leaning conservative, my matches were: Cheney, Buchanan, Keyes, Philips, Bush, McCain, with Nader (last). Its pretty accurate conisdering I'm a former member of the "Buchanan Brigades" who voted for Pat in every primary until he left the Republican party. \_ Bradley, Gore, Browne, Lieberman, Nader, Cheney, Buchanan, McCain, Bush (fairly accurate) --dim \_ granted, yes, Bush is a glorified Quayle... \_ WRONG! Quayle is not that dumb, but Bush is arguably smarter. Bush graduated from Yale and recieved a MBA from Harvard. He had a better overall academic record than Gore, who recieved at least one D (and many C's) in undergrad work at Harvard and failed to complete any of his post graduate work. "Gore arrived at Harvard with an impressive 1355 SAT score, 6 25 verbal and 730 math, compared with Bush's 1206 total \_ Hey! I hope Bush wins so I can claim that I have a higher SAT score than the president of the United States of America: "Gore arrived at Harvard with an impressive 1355 SAT score, 625 verbal and 730 math, compared with Bush's 1206 total from 566 verbal and 640 math." \_ You got into Cal with lower than 1355?!? DAMN. They will let anyone in these days. - alum with 1400 SATs \_ SAT's are meaningless - flunked out with 1490 SAT (780 Math/710 Verbal - yet flunked both English 1A & Math 1A twice, though that was mostly due to lack of interest) \_ WOW! I'm impressed. I've never met anyone flunked out of Math 1A and English 1A. Chem 3B, Chem 162 (Ochem), Physics 112, etc yes, but Math 1A and English 1A, is unbelieveable. Its like 10th grade stuff. \_ Depends on who you had for math. English depends on your instructor and if you have previous writing experience and kiss ass enough. \_ I took 2 ud english classes and they were cake. I didn't even have to go to class ever. I figured 1A was much easier, I never took it though, I AP'ed out. Same with Math 1A,1B. out English, Math and Chem. \_ If you did that in my English 1a, you'd get a big fat F. She actually took attendance and lowered your grade by a full letter for each unexcused day after the second on who you take it from. I'm sure I can find you a math 1A prof that'd be more than happy to flunk you. Prof Woo comes to mind.... There are others. \_ Attendence? WTH, its college. Anyway I stand corrected. \_ Please provide name. Gracias. \_ the english 1A/1B classes are like engineering labs, not lectures. each class is <20 students and there are weekly writing assignments and in-class writing oexercises, so attendance is important. \_ I only took ud english classes, I stand corrected about the ld english classes. \_ This seems like a fair matter of fact page on the candidate's academic records: http://www.geocities.com/gore_in_context/harvard.html \_ Wow. If I took those courses I would sue for slander to keep my transcript from going public. I can't believe that BORE thinks that he's bad ass hard-core academic stud, when all he took were frigging arts/humanities course. Any moron can get decent grades in humanities classes, esp. at a private school where the *customer is always right*. At least Bush as the humility to admit that he's not the brightest on the block. Anyway The last pres. (and perhaps only one in the 20th century) who could pass something like the average Cal ciriculum (50 series, 7 series, 61 series, ud techs) \_ Not including any spelling classes obviously. \_ Yeah, I can't spell. so what? was Carter. He was arguably one of the *worst* presidents. Contrast that to Truman (never went to college), Reagan (Eureka College) or Lincoln (home schooled). Success in the Presidency is more than simply academic prowess. \_ Being POTUS has to do with leadership, not academia. I don't want BH for President but I'm sure he got better grades than either of the current major candidates. \_ BH? \_ Hello? Brian Harvey? Is BH dead or something? \_ Whose Brian Harvey? However, dont you want a tax cut? You dont want experiments with school vouchers, or a portion of your SS tax to give you a higher rate of return? Maybe you should voluntarily donate money to the federal government. \_ Huh? Is that sarcasm? -confused \_ Huh? What? Get a clue. \_ Gosh, I guess I should've picked it up from the tone in your voice or something. I see Cal is still desperately in need of personal interviews prior to accepting new students to weed out the pricks like you. \_ Buchanan, Cheney, Keys, Hagelin (wtf)... Lieb and Gore Last |
| 1999/9/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:16612 Activity:moderate |
9/28 http://www.mccain2000.com \_ McCain sucks, read ~danh/McCain.txt - danh \_ Dan, you're such an idiot. This is such complete trash. It more than oozes bias. It bleeds bias. Anyone who'd vote for or against *any* candidate based on this type of drivel doesn't deserve the privilege of voting. You, Sir, are an idiot. \_ it was the sort of puff piece you see in the newspapers of berkeley communists. I could do a much more interesting one on Gore. -jor \_ the election is already over, dummies. Now get back to your keyboard. \_ Yes, Dan Quayle is going to be the first successful write-in victory, everyone knows that, but that doesn't save danh from babbling spew. \_ Yes mcCain does suck, he wants to pass a law enabling the government to ban and/or censor video games it finds offensive. Video game programmers have alot to worry. All interested parties check out - http://www.gamepac.com \_ Maybe, but dan's garbage isn't the basis for a decision. \_ I didn't even read danh's file. I'm intending to go into the video game industry upon graduation. I think all CS or EECS students who enjoyed games like DOOM etc.. should be jumping out of thier seats at the prospect that their future work could be outlawed just because a group of people find it offensive. Basically, its a scary scenario, and I'm actually quite worried. \_ Oh? My future work is gang style executions in public places. And you know what? Those fascist government thugs want to ban my future career! They actually want to make it *illegal*!!! Would you believe that?! They must, therefore, be evil. \_ I guess you don't remember the PRMC, do you? \_ geez a little touchy aren't you all - danh \_ Stupidity almost makes me touchy. If you're going to advocate some politcal position, pro or con, at least try to base it on something that isn't such blatantly obvious crap. Hell, I don't know a thing about McCain, but your babbling piece from your friend was certainly more offensive and intellectually bankrupt and insulting than anything he might be proposing. |
| 1998/3/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:13747 Activity:very high |
3/02 A new constitutional amendment is being introduced to eliminate
the seperation of church and state. In effect, the majority of
a locality will be able to mandate religious practices. Jewish
children in southern towns will be graded on their essay on the
topic "Why Jesus Loves Me"
\_ call for references please -- it's not April 1 yet.
\_ I love watching the right try to generate election year issues
that they think will help them. Minimum wage, nuking the tax
code, and now this... --scotsman
\_ Isn't the minimum wage a traditional democratic issue?
\_ when you pay taxes, you'll be glad to see a flat tax too
\_ I do pay taxes. But if there's going to be tax code
reform, i'd like to see it done with responsible
legislation, and not as some election year ploy. --scotsman
\_ I don't care what the reason is, I'll take a flat tax
any year. Sooner the better. Why do you care what the
reasoning is as long as the end result is positive?
\_ Hellloooo!! *EVERYTHING* these days is an election year
or poll making ploy. You've lived here how long?
\_ It probably will fail to get the 2/3rds vote it needs, and then
the Republicans will use it in the offyear election as a campaign
issue, emphasizing the "anti-God" vote of the Democrats. -mel
\_ Uhm, yeah. Don't go into politics mel. Stick with computers.
\_ And they are also considering a constitutional amendment to sell
The Brookyln Bridge to the highest bidder.
\_ Did I tell you about the Swamp Land Amendment from Sen. Jason
Crock of Florida?
\_ What about the Hank Hill Propane Gas Consumers & Small
Business Act", sponsored by Rep. Spennncer Bachus of Alabama?
(I kid you not).
\_ Oh ya? Cool. Who does it give my tax money to? |
| 1997/5/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:32141 Activity:nil |
5/1 i will not work for c.e.o. who makes seven figures
\_ What do you care? No matter what the ceo is getting paid, your
salary won't change, wage slave.
\_ And where do you think the extra money for the CEO's paycheck
comes from? "we'll just have the elves in back print out some
more money" And just maybe he has some ethic issues regarding
completely irrational distribution of income. -lars
\_ As if the ceo worked for free the extra money would go
to employees? Hardly. Think shareholders. Market
forces will take care of poorly managed companies. Ethics
has nothing to do with it. I'll refrain from making an
ivory tower comment about someone who majored in PACS.
You should get in on the ucb.class.cs162 socialism debate
and explain how BH's ultra progressive -300% to 100% tax
structure will eliminate all of society's ills.
\_ I feel little need to justify the value of one of my
majors, faceless hozer. However, I feel that I learned
a great deal more in that major that affects my life than
I did in my CS classes. Have you even taken any PACS
courses,or are you just speaking based on your prejucies?
\_ Yes I have. *Everyone* got an "A". It was
insulting and ridiculous.
\_ You should have majored in Business.
\_ Right, so that one day you can explain to your kids how you spent
the best years of your life dutifully studying to be a capitalist
stooge and an intellectual vampire.
\_ Yeah, business sucks. Imagine how many CS majors there
would be if we were all still hunter/gatherers and kept
strictly to a barter system of trade. Whoever invented
money was clearly evil. Get a grip hypocrite. You have
advantages as a member of the US that no one else on the
planet has. They were created, in part, by American
businesses. Surprise, businesses are run by business
people who, (surprise!) were mostly business majors.
The looney left never ceases to amuse me.
\_ Well said!
\_ Judging from the business majors in my classes,
it must have taken a very exceptional business
person to move beyond a barter system.
\_Well I can't help that the average business
major today is a clone. The basic point remains
the same, despite the lower life forms currently
enrolled in classes.
\_nanofabrication promises a post-economic era within
100 years - in the future, the only commodities will
be ideas and dirt- with this much, all things are
possible.
\_ you've been reading too many stupid books.
\_ If you want my dirt, you're going to have to pay big
bucks for it. This is high quality dirt, especially
formulated for the latest in nanofabrication
techniques. My ideas are freely available however.
Only the dirt has a price tag. --Dirt-R-Us(tm) Inc. |
| 1996/10/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:31958 Activity:high |
10/28 Has anyone who requested an absentee ballot received it yet? I'm just
wondering when we're supposed to get them by, as I thought they had to
be returned *before* the election.... --tabloyd
\_ you should have gotten it already. my roommate got hers at least
last week, maybe week before last, i forget. --lila
\_ The registrar is screwed up. I requested mine weeks ago and haven't
received it. Now I'm in Washington DC on a business trip, our
nation's CAPITAL, through election day, and can't vote, and I'm
in Washington DC. What the hell. -kmanoj
\_If anyone else hasn't received their absentee ballot,
call the registrar and they'll send you out another one;
you can also vote @ your polling place otherwise. This won't
help kmanoj, but maybe someone else... --tabloyd |
| 12/24 |