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| 2008/6/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:50260 Activity:nil |
6/14 The Exile:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/06/russian-government-press-feedom-putin-ames-medvedev.php |
| 2008/6/9-12 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:50204 Activity:kinda low |
6/9 i bet this grandma open carries
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Dark_Side_4/The_Rambo_Granny_of_Melbourne_Australia.shtml
\_ "her granddaughter, Debbie, was car-jacked and raped in broad
daylight by two knife-wielding creeps in a section of town bordering
on skid row."
It's a shame the granddaughter couldn't have killed them when they
attacked her. Wait, I thought handguns were outlawed in Australia?
How'd this granny have one? And is that why the thugs attacked with
a knife? Shouldn't I be safe in the middle of the day? Indeed, the
law seems a bit out of touch with the people: "What she did was
wrong, and she broke the law, but it is difficult to throw an
81-year-old woman in prison, Det. Delp said -- especially when 3
million people in the city want to nominate her for Mayor."
-emarkp
\_ [my comment deleted, since this story is an urban legend] -emarkp
\_ It's in the article, She didn't turn in the gun when the law
changed.
\_ The rest of the story:
\_ Welcome to Urban Legends:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.asp
\_ As opposed to this one, who has a concealed carry permit. And
actually exists:
http://csua.org/u/lqf (SFgate) |
| 2008/6/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:50121 Activity:nil |
6/2 Theories have swirled around Nina's disappearance. Did she embezzle
money from Reiser's company and run back home to Russia? Was she
involved with the KGB or the Russian mafia? Did Hans Reiser's cunning
intelligence help him almost get away with murder?
48 Hours Mystery correspondent Maureen Maher reports on the case this
Tuesday, June 3, at a special time, 9 p.m. ET/PT. |
| 2008/5/15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49957 Activity:high 66%like:49954 |
5/15 When will this windfall be taxed?
http://csua.org/u/ljk
\_ My favorite quote:
"You'd be taxing success here," Kevin Casey, Harvard's associate
vice president for government, community and public affairs
complained in a quote that will soon be framed and hung in my
office. "Over time, this would put us at a real competitive
disadvantage, which would drastically hurt the Commonwealth."
\_ Amusingly, everyone else seems to have missed this. -op
\_ Missed what? Glenn Beck is still a tool. and a troll.
I hate you for making me think about him today. You win.
\_ Missed the quote from Kevin Casey you moron.
\_ why didnt you point it out, furryboy?
\_ I figured "everyone else seems to have missed THIS"
pointing to the quote was sufficient.
\_ Yes, this is quite ironic.
\_ my brain is hurting from trying to parse this article.
Harvard == GIANT UNREGULATED HEDGE FUND!!!!!!!!!!
you know there are real live unregulated giant hedge funds
out there who do actual shady documented crap, they probably
don't concern themselves with giving out degrees.
\_ The fact that this is from Glenn Beck explains it all.
GO IRAQ WAR IT IS THE RIGHT THING!
\_ But Glenn Beck apologized for misleading America and being
a cheerleader for an incompetent and corrupt Administration.
Right?
\_ "But while their financial statements may look similar, their
missions aren't. The Gates Foundation is working to cure malaria,
develop new tuberculosis vaccines, and stop the spread of AIDS.
Most of our colleges and universities are only working to spread
the radical political views of some of their professors." Oh
that's right Glen Beck. Harvard (which he had just been writing
about a sentance earlier.) just exists to spread radical politics!
THOSE DAMN FIFTH COLUMNISTS AT HARVARD. You read this shit and
take it seriously? Do you have more braincells than God gave a
chihuahua? This dude makes the chewbacca defense seem reasonable.
\_ toy poodles are even stupider
\_ url?
\_ Yeah. Never mind the universities spend far more money on useful
research and training in engineering, fundamental sciences, life
sciences, and yes, also in medicine. Neither the views of
humanities faculties are necessarily politically radical.
I have taken 3-4 humanities courses and never felt that
the instructors were necessarily biased, much less spread
radical views (although I know such people exist). This man
discredited himself after that paragraph.
\_ yeah, whoever posted the url... glen beck is not a noted
economist. people pay attention to him. im not sure why.
he's not as mean spirited as Rush. that might be it.
\_ This windfall is even more disgusting:
http://csua.org/u/ljp (Times Online)
\_ Why is ExxonMobil's profit disgusting?
\_ It's disgusting in terms of the massive subsidies they still
get despite these sorts of profits.
\_ You're an idiot. Do you know how much they paid in taxes?
\_ Probably 35 percent on earned income, minus the
gajillion deductions any giant company with an army
of tax lawyers at their command should be claiming.
if you're talking about that recent email floating around
about how Exxon already pays 40 percent in taxes...
oh dont get me started.
if you're talking about that recent email floating
around about how Exxon already pays 40 percent in
taxes... oh dont get me started.
\_ IIRC, they paid more than 2x in taxes than they had
in profit. |
| 2008/5/15 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49954 Activity:moderate 66%like:49957 |
5/15 When will this winfall be taxed?
http://csua.org/u/ljk
\_ my brain is hurting from trying to parse this article.
Harvard == GIANT UNREGULATED HEDGE FUND!!!!!!!!!!
you know there are real live unregulated giant hedge funds
out there who do actual shady documented crap, they probably
don't concern themselves with giving out degrees.
\_ The fact that this is from Glenn Beck explains it all.
GO IRAQ WAR IT IS THE RIGHT THING!
\_ But Glenn Beck apologized for misleading America and being
a cheerleader for an incompetent and corrupt Administration.
Right?
\_ "But while their financial statements may look similar, their
missions aren't. The Gates Foundation is working to cure malaria,
develop new tuberculosis vaccines, and stop the spread of AIDS.
Most of our colleges and universities are only working to spread
the radical political views of some of their professors." Oh
that's right Glen Beck. Harvard (which he had just been writing
about a sentance earlier.) just exists to spread radical politics!
THOSE DAMN FIFTH COLUMNISTS AT HARVARD. You read this shit and
take it seriously? Do you have more braincells than God gave a
toy poodle? This dude makes the chewbacca defense seem reasonable.
chihuahua? This dude makes the chewbacca defense seem reasonable.
\_ yeah, whoever posted the url... glen beck is not a noted
economist. people pay attention to him. im not sure why.
he's not as mean spirited as Rush. that might be it.
\_ My favorite quote:
"You'd be taxing success here," Kevin Casey, Harvard's associate
vice president for government, community and public affairs
complained in a quote that will soon be framed and hung in my
office. "Over time, this would put us at a real competitive
disadvantage, which would drastically hurt the Commonwealth." |
| 2008/5/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49948 Activity:moderate |
5/15 Amateur motd directors, what do you think of the East Bay Express's
article on why UCB should fire John Woo for just being an all around
terrible director:
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/PrintFriendly?oid=727134
\_ I was unaware of the purpose of john woo's old office in
the administration. now i know!
\- ths is an interesting and hard problems. much, much discussion
at brad delong WOB site.
\_ Anyone who says stuff we don't like should be destroyed! Free
speech is only for people who agree with us!
\_ This might be a little deeper than that. Read the article
then come back. It's not that he says things that are
unpopular, but he might have either just made up
law out of his ass, or committed a crime, or perhaps
he was just following the instructions of someone else.
I don't think this is a free speech issue.
\_ Do you think that mob boss who orders a hit is protected
by a "free speech" defence?
\_ No, I do not.
\_ I think that he has tenure and should not be fired until he is
convicted of a felony. I believe he committed one, but we should
wait until the legal system has decided that or not. What if
Bush pardons him though, which looks more and more likely?
\_ I keep hearing that Bush is going to pardon all these people,
but I haven't seen him actually do it.
\_ These pardons usually come in a Presidents last week
in office.
\- "i have a pardon in my pocket" jyoo@autodafe.berkeley.edu |
| 2008/5/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49901 Activity:moderate 57%like:49908 |
5/8 Next time a CA politician says we need more moeny for schools, remember
this:
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/archives/2008/05/07/another-lausd-waste
http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-me-lopez4-2008may04,1,718733.column
\_ These guys are lying to you. The school cost $230M, not this
sculpture. How much did the sculpture cost?
http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-me-lopez4-2008may04,1,718733.column
\_ The sculpture cost over $40M. The original budget for the high
school was less than the sculpture alone. See the LA Times story.
http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-me-lopez4-2008may04,1,6298591,full.column
\_ The *theater* with tower cost that much, not the sculpture.
Still a tremendous waste when kids don't even have books.
Public education is a sham. |
| 2008/5/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49894 Activity:moderate 75%like:49913 |
5/6 Hey, Yoo lover: Yale denounces its own
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/05/john-yoo-and-pr.html
Thanks for the link, psb.
\- er, so does berkeley
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/05/the-torture-mem.html
\_ It's always better when an entire school suffers from group-think,
right?
\_ You mean the hippie dippie liberal 'group think' that torture
is wrong, makes us look like complete idiots to the world,
and doesn't give us reliable intelligence? Sign me up
for group think then.
\_ No I don't mean that. It has nothing to do with agendas. It
has to do with the OP talking about a school "deouncing their
own". I'm saying a school is thousands of people. They
don't all have to agree with each other on everything.
That's inane.
\_ Any turly educated person agrees with me.
\_ How tur.
\_ Right. Your interpretation would be retarded, and I couldn't think
of a better verb than "denounces." I can't imagine anything
closer to "Yale denounces its own" having meaning, than the dean
of the law school criticizing Yoo on legal, ethical and moral
grounds at a large, official gathering of that institution, such
as commencement, which is exactly what happened. -op |
| 2008/4/29-5/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49853 Activity:kinda low |
4/29 How Frederick Douglass addressed the 3/5 issue:
"I answer.and see you bear it in mind, for it shows the disposition of
the constitution to slavery.I take the very worst aspect, and admit all
that is claimed or that can be admitted consistently with truth; and I
answer that this very provision, supposing it refers to slaves, is in
itself a downright disability imposed upon the slave system of America,
one which deprives the slaveholding States of at least two-fifths of
their natural basis of representation.
"A black man in a free State is worth just two-fifths more than a black
man in a slave State, as a basis of political power under the
constitution.
"Therefore, instead of encouraging slavery, the constitution encourages
freedom, by holding out to every slaveholding State the inducement of
an increase of two-fifths of political power by becoming a free State."
http://medicolegal.tripod.com/douglassuos.htm#three-fifths-clause
\_ Quite impressive, the human ability to rationalize. He practically
sounds like a Randroid. -tom
\_ The irony police are overwhelmed with tom, send in the irony
national guard!
\_ The 3/5 compromise was made by abolitionists who wanted to weaken
slave states. Go back and read history tom.
\_ It was actually done by both sides, hence the label used
"compromise."
\_ Yes, but the slave states wanted the slaves to count as 1
person.
\_ ...with their votes cast by the slave owner. -tom
\_ You are confused. The slave owner still only had
one vote. The 3/5 rule was for the number of seats
that state got in congress.
\_ Right, so if the slaves were truly free to vote,
and at 1:1 representation, the state of Georgia
might have more seats in Congress, but the people
in power in Georgia would lose power. -tom
\_ Well, at the time women were counted as 1
person but couldn't vote. People under
voting age are still counted as 1 person but
obviously can't vote.
\_ Parents are the legal representatives of
their children; slave owners and slaves
have diametrically opposed interests. -tom
\_ And womenfolk?
\_ Personally I think women's suffrage is
a good thing--you disagree? -tom
\_ The US had the choice to allow slavery, or not allow
it. It is pretzel logic to claim that, presented
with that choice, deciding to allow slavery but make
it somewhat less attractive was "encouraging
freedom." There's also no reason to believe that
slaves would vote the same way as their masters;
giving slaves full votes would likely have led to
abolition via democratic processes, for example,
rather than civil war. You could say that the 3/5ths
rule meant that "Georgia" had less power than New
York, but the people who actually had power in Georgia
were strengthened by the fact that their slaves couldn't
vote themselves freedom. -tom
\_ The current congress has the choice to continue war or not.
And? I thought you lefties thought it was conservatives
that only think in black and white.
\_ Do you think that the current Congress deciding to
continue to fund the war is "encouraging peace"? -tom
\_ Are you trying to change the topic?
\_ Umm, the US had the choice to allow slavery, or not exist.
You know when the constitution was written right?
\_ I thought you trolls believed in the power of the
free market. -tom
\_ Whaa? Am I talking to some sort of eliza program
based on tom rantings here?
\_ The idea that the US could not have existed
without slavery in 1787 is ridiculous. -tom
\_ It seems pretty obvious that the South would
not have signed a constitution that outlawed
it. Hence, the US would not exist, at least
as we know it.
\_ It's not necessarily obvious. The Southern
Colonies might have conceded, or they might
not have. That they were never forced into
position where they had to make the decision
is not evidence of which way they might
have jumped. Interesting counterfactuals
proceed from both eventualities.
\_ Don't let that whole Civil War thing
stand in the way of your hypothetical.
\_ Don't let a lack of understanding of
the causes of the Civil War or the
nearly century-long gap between it
and the signing of the Constitution
stand in the way of a one-line quip
full of sound and fury signifying
nothing
\_ is there some reason the 3/5ths compromise is suddenly big news on the motd?
did Hillary finally get behind it? Did Reverend Wright vow to travel
back in time and rip Dred Scott limb from limb? What's going on?
\_ is there some reason the 3/5ths compromise is suddenly big news on
the motd? did Hillary finally get behind it? Did Reverend Wright
vow to travel back in time and rip Dred Scott limb from limb?
\_ Rev. Wright would more
likely wish to rip Taney,
CJ, limb from limb.
What's going on?
\_ Assuming this quote is correctly attributed to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass call me crazy, but
on this one I'm going to go with the smart guy who lived through
it over tom.
\_ In what way? Frederick Douglas and tom speak to utterly
different audiences: FD to a world where legalized slavery is
still considered a possibility, whereas tom speaks to a world
where slavery is an abhorrent concept. FD had to be almost
painfully cautious in expressing his beliefs, whereas tom is
free to express his with very little fear of danger to his own
physical person. Had he had his 'druthers, FD might have said
something more strident and provocative. --erikred
\_ FD wrote tons of provocative stuff. Start with the wiki
link. Not buying it. Also tom is claiming the union could
have somehow existed with the south agreeing to end slavery.
No. Ridiculous. If that were the case there would have been
no need of the 3/5th "compromise". You really think they
didn't talk about all this stuff at the time? Wow!
\_ FD also had his house burned down. I'm sure they talked
about it at the time; that doesn't change the fact that
deciding to encode slavery in the Constitution is not
"encouraging freedom." -tom
\_ /shrug. FD was being politic, working with what he had
at the time. It would be interesting to see what he had
to say post-Civil War, Emancipation Proclamation, 14th
Amendment. Also, pp's point vis-a-vis that the union
could not have existed without a 3/5ths compromise is
speculative. Carry on. --erikred |
| 2008/4/27-30 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49840 Activity:nil |
4/27 FBI investigates rare US abduction case - Yahoo! News:
http://www.csua.org/u/ld0
"We have a ransom situation here. In the United States, kidnappings
for ransom are very rare,"
Very rare? Really?
\_ Why is that so hard to understand? As much as us motd posters
love to hate America and where it's going, we do have a reasonable
system of laws and law enforcement. If you kidnap someone
for ransom, you're probably not going to be able to use your
ill gotten gains, and you will probably be caught. This is not
the case in certain other parts of the world.
\_ Rare enough that the FBI's Uniform Crime Report doesn't
even list it as a category. You may also want to see
the Wikipedia entry on "kidnapping." |
| 2008/4/21-30 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49786 Activity:nil |
4/19 Bush interrogation program was being used before Yoo memo
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-horton21apr21,0,1892568.story
\_ He and Libby will both get a pardon. |
| 2008/4/11-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49729 Activity:low |
4/11 New UN Human Rights Appointee is a 9/11 truther
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020272.php
\_ The new UN Human Rights council is worse than the old. They passed
8 or more resolutions against Israel, and _nothing_ else. Nothing on
Darfur, nothing on Zimbabwe, nothing on China.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEw0lZ3k_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU
\_ Yes, because that's what happens when you create an .org like
the UN that treats dictators, thugs, theocrats and other forms
of human trash like real people and give them votes on anything.
Want to do some good in the world? Shoot all those guys. If
their replacements are just as bad, keep shooting. They'll get
the message after a few funerals. Instead we treat them like
royalty. As if they were legitimate leaders.
\_ I'd like to shoot some people that I think suck too. Let's
start with you. Then the rest of your family!
\_ If me and my family were mass murdering butchers then I'd
say go ahead. Since we're not and the people I'm talking
about are, how about you try again? Or better yet, don't
bother since your first response was so lame.
\_ The UN is all mass murdering butchers? Who, precisely,
has the UN murdered?
\_ You = reading failure. We've already covered the
UN staff cashing in on the global sex slave trade,
but if you had actually read the this thread you'd
know it was specifically about the UN HRC. Try
again. The UN itself is responsible for deaths
by inaction, not specifically murder but you don't
really care about that either, you just want to
play rhetorical gotcha games (and lose).
\_ It is not my fault that you are incoherent. The
reason your words are so confusing is because your
thinking is so muddled. I will give you a second
chance to answer the question: who, specifically,
do you think is a mass murdering butcher?
I assume from some of your rant above that
do you think is responsible for mass murdering
people? I assume from some of your rant above that
you think that these people are on the UN HRC.
Who are you talking about? Can you even name one
of them? |
| 2008/4/11-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49724 Activity:moderate |
4/11 So ummm.... Why the heck is John Yoo a prof at Boalt?
\_ Because Berekley is a great academic institution with a wide
diversity of viewpoints?
\_ Why do you ask? (I keep hearing stuff about Yoo on the motd
but I don't see why he's controversial.)
\_ He is the main author of the "torture is okey-dokey" legal
argument.
\_ Perhaps b/c he is an excellent lawyer, teacher and scholar?
I am not saying that Prof. Yoo is any of those things b/c I
do not know him. But he could be an exceptional lawyer and
teacher even if his politics are completely incompatible w/
yours. My favorite law school prof and I have quite different
political views on many things but it does not change the fact
that he is a superb lawyer and teacher.
\_ If he such a superb lawyer, why did he produce such a
wrongheaded legal opinion?
\_ I do not know why Prof. Yoo wrote the torture memo.
My experience suggests that someone asked him to
write it. That he reached a conclusion that you
\_ I did not say that Prof. Yoo was a superb lawyer.
Also, I do not know why Prof. Yoo wrote the torture
memo. My experience suggests that someone asked him
to write it. That he reached a conclusion that you
(and perhaps he also) disagree with, does not mean
that he is not a good lawyer. Clients sometimes
(often?) ask one to do support positions one thinks
are morally, though not legally, unsupportable.
(often?) ask one to find legal support for positions
one thinks are morally unsupportable. Fortunately,
sometimes the law does not offer such support. In
other situations, the law does offer the support a
client seeks. And in those case, one has no choice
client seeks. And in those cases, one has no choice
but to disclose that fact to the client.
Anyway, my point was merely that Prof. Yoo may have
qualities that qualify him for the job he holds,
abilities that qualify him for the job he holds,
desipte his political views.
[Update: I think the following blog post is
particularly relevant:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3g96eg [legal ethics forum]]
\_ No, he is a counter-revolutionary and must be sent to the
gulags. There can be no dissent!
\_ Do you think torture is something that America should
support? Do you think that it is against the law of
the land?
\_ I personally do not think torture is something
America should support. But I do not think that
it is against the law of the land in all cases.
\_ Anyone who defends a counter-revolutionary is also
counter-revolutionary! We will root out these
traitors!
\_ At a certain point, someone has to be responsible for
ass-covering. "I was only following orders" and all that.
\_ Well, he has tenure, which should protect him from
being fired for holding unpopular opinions. But since
he apparently was primarily responsible for the US
violating the Geneva Convention, jail time is not
out of the question.
\_ I have not followed in detail the USSC's decisions
on the GC issue, but as far as I am aware, it is
not clear that the GC has been violated by BUSHCO's
actions or that a violation of the GC would imply
jail time for the principals b/c no applicable
privilege exists.
Re "following orders" - I agree that someone should
be held accountable, but why should it be Prof. Yoo
instead of those who commissioned his memo?
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy
\_ It remains unclear that any law has been
broken wrt Prof. Yoo and/or those who
sought his advice and acted upon it.
Even if some crime has occured, it is
unclear that some form of executive priv.
would not apply.
\_ Do you believe the executive has the
privilege to break the law with impunity?
The Supreme Court disagrees with that.
\_ As I said, I have not followed the
USSC's decision wrt the GC. Based
on my very brief reading of the
decisions, it is unclear that any
crime has been committed by Prof.
Yoo or those who sought his advice.
It is also unclear that even if a
crime has been committed an exec.
privilege will not apply. The USSC
has not rule on this particular
issue and likely never will
("John Marshall has issued his
order now let him enforce it").
\_ Google "United States v. Nixon."
\_ It is not clear to me that
Nixon applies to this
situation. There may be
many kinds of executive
privilege and power.
\_ I think US v. Nixon is very
clear - executive priv. exists,
but it is specifically NOT
immune to judicial review,
particularly in the case
where a crime may have been
committed. I don't think there
are "many kinds" of executive
priv. - there is the kind
recognized by the courts only.
\_ It is not at all clear that
Nixon applies when the Pres.
acts in the arena of foreign
affairs or national defense,
which is the situation in
relevant to Prof. Yoo. The
Pres. inherent power may be
overriding in those realms.
[I was not using "privilege"
in the technical sense]
\_ I am doubtful of that
argument, and I believe
most legal scholars are
as well. Note that
Congress is given the
power to ratify treaties.
\_ Congress is also given
the power to declare
war, maintain a navy,
&c. so clearly there is
shared power over the
conduct of foreign
affairs and national
security. But it is
still unclear whether
the Pres. power trumps.
BUSHCO clearly believes
it does. I am not sure
they are correct. But
the argument exists.
And I believe that we
will never have an
answer.
\_ I wonder how many of the Yoo defenders were calling for that
stupid "A million little Hitler's" prof's head on a platter.
(Or some such nazi/9-11 reference)
\_ They hired him fresh out of the administration in 2004. The torture
memos weren't revealed until after that. If he were brought up on
charges as a contributor to undermining and violating the Convention
Against Torture and war crimes, could he lose his tenure then?
I was very happy to see him on talk show right after he was hired.
A prominent conservative from Berkeley! Now I'd like to see him in jail.
\_ Absolutely, COMRADE! Those who write or speak statements that
WE the PEOPLES disagree with shall be imprisoned! The FIRST
AMENDMENT only protects POPULAR speach WE like! Excuse me,
COMRADE, I must now march on our ENEMIES, the TERRORISTS of
EURASIA. Up with the REVOLUTION, COMRADE!
\_ Uh, is the criminal or incompetent practice of law a first amendment
issue? Surely there are standards about whether an argument is a good
faith effort or a load of legal bullshit, with no evidence or
justification in US jurisprudence. Writing legal opinions
to justify the use of torture makes you a party to violating our
own laws, and treaties against torture and war crimes to which the US
is a signatory.
That's why he's in the news. Because his classified memos are
finally coming out -- those upon which Gitmo and the Padilla
confinement are based -- and they are laughable, to the point of
malpractice.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4q74q
\_ 404 Not Found
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4q74qt
Bush: "We had legal opinions that enabled us to do it."
\_ Bush will pardon the whole lot of them. |
| 11/26 |
| 2008/3/21-25 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Religion] UID:49530 Activity:high |
3/21 Krauthhammer on Obama's speech
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=290899211643217
\_ Does Krauthammer still call them Freedom Fries? When is he going
to apologize for the Iraq War? The guy is a fool.
\_ So, in other words, he's right and you have no answer to any
of his points? Thanks.
\_ No, he has shown himself time and again to be mendatious
\_ No, he has shown himself time and again to be mendacious
and has shown repeated bad judgement. Why would anyone
waste their time bothering to untangle what a proven
fool is blubbering on about?
\_ It's an opinion piece that *many* people would agree with.
Fine if you don't want to read someone's opinions.
\_ I don't waste my time reading Ann Coulter's "opinions"
either. Some people have worthwhile things to say,
this guy has proven, to me at least, that he does not.
\- you remember that reporter in manhunter/red dragon?
think krauthammer.
\_ That's nice. If you don't want to read something
that is fine. However, that puts you in a poor
position to comment on the article. Your opinion
of the writer's previous statements does not create
the logical grounds for outright dismissing a later
statement. -!pp (and no, like you I haven't read
it either, but unlike you I am not going to comment
on something I haven't read)
\_ I didn't comment on his article. I dismissed
him as a fool.
\_ Exactly. You gave a zero-content knee-jerk
response to seeing his name. Why bother?
Is that really going to convince anyone of
anything or just venting? I see no reason
to post content-free rants. Perhaps you can
explain the value of your original post?
\_ It is pretty funny that a guy who defends
Krauthammer would complain about a content
free rant.
\_ It's even funnier that a guy who
complains about Krauthammer would engage
so much in content free rants. -!pp
\_ Show me even one column of his that is
not: 1) tendentious 2) partisan and
3) wrong and I will reconsider my
POV. The truth is, I have read over
20 of his columns and not even one of
them was worth the time I spent.
them was worth the time I spent. And
btw, saying "Krauthammer was wrong
about Iraq and I will not consider his
opinion until he recants" is hardly
comment free. Perhaps you don't agree
with the comment, but it is certainly
not comment-free.
\_ I'm at no point defending Krauthammer.
I made it quite clear I didn't read the
article and it doesn't matter at all what
the article says since you didn't read it
either. You are intellectually dishonest
or possibly just mentally deficient.
Either way you have still failed to make
a point or even attempt to. -pp
\_ No, I made my point just fine, you just
refuse to admit it: some people aren't
worth wasting your time considering.
Do you remember when the motd was
covered with Freeper trolls? I used
to post links to Prof. Thomas'
excellent blog, The Economist's Voice,
excellent blog, The Economist's View,
until some of the Motd Conservatives
complained about the tone of the
comments section. Krauthammer is
far worse.
worse.
\_ You didn't make a point. A point
might have been convincing. You
expressed a content-free opinion.
There is nothing wrong with that.
It just isn't a point. Don't
confuse your opinion with fact.
\_ My reply was deleted, so here's the
rehashed version: You posted your
opinion. Yay. I'm happy for you.
It still isn't a fact and your
opinion is not something that can
be falsified. You don't like him.
Ok. As far as freepers go, if you
were the one posting freeper links,
I was the one saying we don't need
that here. There's no reason at
all to post a freeper link when all
we're getting is freeper hate plus
a link to the original article.
Just post the original link without
the hate. I also don't see a need
for dailykos hate either, just so
you understand I'm even handed with
my hate-link complaints.
\_ The answer to his question (why he stayed in the church) is pretty
obvious. A church is primarily about religion and faith. Politics
are secondary. A preacher expressing an opinion he doesn't agree
with isn't a crime that reflects on him or his judgement. Unless
you say he should have left because, cynically, it might be used
against him for political muckraking and fearmongering purposess.
\_ A preacher saying the things Wright said should have no
congregation.
\_ Well, I'd say any preacher should have no congregation since
religion is all a giant pile of bullshit. But go figure: it
seems to help them. You aren't in that church, you don't
know what pros there might be to counter these supposed cons.
\_ It's an opinion piece that *many* people would agree with.
Fine if you don't want to read someone's opinions.
\_ There *is no pro* that can counter these cons. And what do
you mean by 'supposed'?
\_ You know everything, why don't you figure it out?
\_ You know, this kind of shit is amazing to read, given how much
shit famous ring-wing christians get here. -- ilyas
shit famous right-wing christians get here. -- ilyas
\_ Well, I guess to me the thing is that Obama explicitly and
publically rejects the controversial statements at hand. The
only real controversy with him then is his church membership
and apparent friendship with this man. I don't recall the
right wing politicians rejecting wacky religious right stuff.
Actually they (Bush etc) invoke it in public policy matters.
\_ Slightly off-topic, but if you take a closer look at Wright's
philosophy, he's far more of a conservative than a liberal.
\_ Hey, I think he is a kook, but I think that about most
religious people, so I think my opinion doesn't really matter
religious people, so my opinion doesn't really matter
here. What is going on, imho, is that religious conservatives
are waking up to the fact that there are other strains of
Christian faith and it kind of freaks them out. |
| 2008/3/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49436 Activity:high 80%like:49431 |
3/12 Spitzer's Kristen, 5'5" 105lbs revealed. Don't drool!
http://www.pagesix.com/story/spitzer+s+hooker+revealed
\_ ANOREXIA!!!
\_ No way is that woman 105 pounds.
\_ How about this one:
http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sportbikebabe4cx4.jpg
I'm guessing 5'5" 100lbs.
\_ More like 115-120.
\_ Depends on how tall she is. 115-120 is not thin for a
woman who is 5'2". More like 95-100. Models are
usually about 5'9" 120.
\_ Well look at the MOTORCYCLE!!! The in-seam height
of a CBR600RR is about 32-32.5". Extrapolate, and
you'll get the actual height. I can't do it now
because I'm at work.
\_ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/nyregion/12cnd-kristen.html
\_ Liberal new york times.
\_ You crack me up. So, when the NYT reports the biggest scandal
of the moment, and it happens to be to a hypocrite Dem, that
means they're not Liberal? Or what does your post mean?
\_ http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0312084kristen1.html
\_ Wait he paid $5K a trip for her? WTF I wouldn't pay over
$285/session for this woman. I can get better looking
women for only $300-500/session.
\_ Why do you go to hookers?
\_ C? Looks more like a B to me.
\_ Some of us have seen real breasts. That's a nice full C in that
photo.
\_ My ex had D and my wife has A. I've seen and touched them
countless times. IMHO the ones in the pic look closer to A
than to D. So I guessed they're B. -- PP
\_ So in other words you have very little boob experience. |
| 2008/3/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49431 Activity:nil 80%like:49436 |
3/12 Spitzer's Kristen, 5'10" 105lbs revealed. Don't droll!
http://www.pagesix.com/story/spitzer+s+hooker+revealed |
| 2008/3/3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49316 Activity:nil |
3/2 So I'm tired of stupid city/suburb generalizations and took a few
sample points from a popular web site and found interesting
data. Cities in general have significantly higher crime index
(SF vs San Mateo, LA vs Irvine). Ratio of residents to sex
offender is similar. So yes, cities have more reported % of sex
offenders than suburbs. Higher %, higher #, end of story.
[Crime index and population data from: http://www.city-data.com/]
Fremont: 1894 resident to 1 sex offender (224 crime index)
San Francisco: 1176 to 1 (519 crime index)
Sunnyvale: 1362 to 1 (151 crime index)
San Mateo: 1690 to 1 (225 crime index)
Santa Ana: 1397 to 1 (306 crime index)
Irvine: 8521 to 1 158 crime index)
Los Angeles: 1015 to 1 (384 crime index)
Arcadia: 5619 to 1 (236 crime index) |
| 2008/2/28-3/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49295 Activity:nil |
2/28 "more than one in every 100 American adults is in jail or prison,"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080228/ap_on_re_us/prison_population
\_ We're number 1! |
| 2008/2/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49232 Activity:low |
2/24 CBS affiliate in northern Alamaba "mysteriously" goes dark during
Karl Rove/Don Siegelman segment:
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002487
\_ How do you think Rove was going to create a Permanent Republican
Majority? You don't really think he expected to win electiond
Majority? You don't really think he expected to win elections
did you?
\_ This segment on this one affiliate in northern Alabama going
dark was key to Karl Rove's plan to rule the world!
\_ Someone didn't read the url or watch the video, yay!
\_ keyword: ignorant |
| 2008/2/17-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49172 Activity:nil |
2/16 NY Times review of "The Age of American Unreason":
http://preview.tinyurl.com/292uxg (nytimes.com) |
| 2008/2/14-18 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49144 Activity:moderate |
2/14 good reiser trial blog
http://www.jaygaskill.com/blog1
\_ His defense seems to center around "my wife went to russia". Can't
he hire someone in Russia to find her and take some pictures of
her at lunch or something?
\_ OJ is still looking for Nicole's killers
\_ Well, without a body can there really be a crime? Yes, but
there's a huge element of doubt introduced.
\_ People get convicted of murder without the body sometimes.
I bet it'll be a mistrial
\_ Sure they do, but it makes it really tough.
\_ If he takes the stand, he'll be found guilty. If he
doesn't, he'll probably get a hung jury. -tom
\_ There's no body but he's claiming she fled to russia. The
case will be dropped instantly if he could prove that. It
makes me suspicious that we haven't heard a single thing about
investigating his claims she's living there now.
\_ He's just saying that he has no idea where she is and
that she may have gone there. How do you investigate
that? It's hard enough to find someone in the US.
\_ If she's there where she has family and other roots she
shouldn't be that hard to find. It isn't the heart of
Africa.
\_ Unless you think Nina's family are masters of manipulation, it's pretty
clear her side of the family thinks she's dead. I guess she could have
accepted her new job, gotten groceries, taken the battery out of
her cell phone, THEN hopped skipped and jumped to a secret hole
in Russia and resolved to never talk to her beloved children
again. Oh yeah this is after she planted her blood, and Hans' blood,
on the stairport of Hans' house. Remember Nina hasn't lived in that
house in over a year.
\_ It's hard to find someone who doesn't want to
be found. Thats my point. If she's just living
a normal life there then sure.
\_ Unless you think Nina's family are masters of manipulation, it's
pretty clear her side of the family thinks she's dead. I guess she
could have accepted her new job, gotten groceries, taken the
battery out of her cell phone, THEN hopped skipped and jumped to a
secret hole in Russia and resolved to never talk to her beloved
children again. Oh yeah this is after she planted her blood, and
Hans' blood, on the stairport of Hans' house. Remember Nina hasn't
lived in that house in over a year.
\_ Actually, the way it went down was that ext3 was feeling the heat
from reiserfs so it ordered a combo hit/frame-up on the Reisers.
Nina was killed and Hans was framed so that reiserfs would wither
and ext3 could go on try to take over the world.
\_ From what I know I think he killed her. I'm just saying that
if his defense is that she's is Russia, how much effort has he
put into finding her? Seems kinda important, no? |
| 2008/2/6-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:49078 Activity:high |
2/5 How about this instead of the BS below:
I found out my school district spends $16K per child and it's
ranked in the bottom 1/3 in the State. Please explain why the
State deserves more of my dollars. A family of four is not getting
their $32K worth. In fact, many people in my city put their kids
in private school even though the government is spending $16K/kid.
That's a shitload of money for the government to waste. This is
how well the government manages your money and the education of
your kids. --dim
\_ Nice. You forgot to mention that we need to deport Mexicans
who are leeching off of tax dollars, that we need to be
tough on crimes, and that we need to build bigger jails.
\_ As opposed to... giving amnesty, being soft on crime,
and shutting down jails?
\_ Yay! Binary worldview!
\_ You know, countries that don't provide social services end up
having other problems like huge crime rate, mafia, gangster,
child gangster, prostitution (e.g. Brazil) and that affects
everyone from the middle class all the way to the upper class.
I guess this huge disparity is one of the main reasons why
nice LA/OC/SD homes are mostly gated communities with private
security guards.
\_ How about the State spend that $16K/pupil in a way that
makes sense instead? Many private schools educate for less
than $10K/pupil and even the best are at no more than
$24K/pupil. Please tell me why the education is substandard
at those rates. If the education was better maybe some of
the poor kids stuck in public schools would contribute more
to society and feel better about their prospects.
\_ You can't compare costs of private and public schools
directly, because of the selection bias of private schools.
(Kids of poor families with uninvolved parents don't go to
private school). -tom
\_ Ah. This is the hew and cry of the liberal. When one
\- did you go to private or public school?
it's "hue and cry". --your common law
consultant
\_ Seems to be both now, although
originally "hue and cry":
http://tinyurl.com/3bh7fm
http://tinyurl.com/32tod4
\_ If you're going by current usage,
that's a pretty liberal definition
of "seems to be both". Google has
548,000 hits for "hue and cry" vs.
888 for "hew and cry", a ratio of
about 600:1. For comparison,
"their" vs. "thier" gives 58:1.
\- no, "hue" is correct.
if hew is commonly used in
error, it is still an error,
\_ That's not really how our
language works.
\- i said "commonly used in
error" not commonly used.
common usage as slang or
as a short cut is one
thing ... there isnt
a requirement to use
say "whom" ... but in the
case of a word with a known
origin, there is a right
and wrong. somebody can
call herself "candee" but
if you spell the sweet
that way, it is wrong.
say "shall" vs will ...
but in the case of a word
with a known origin, there
is a right and wrong.
eventhough geeks like
virii, that is not correct
since its not from a latin
word for one.
either in latin nor english
today.
\_ And it's not even
commonly used in error,
according to the Google
stats above.
as with "toe/tow the line".
note that your second link is
not to the "official" nyt,
where "hue" is used.
of the schools in my district scored highly even with
mostly black and Hispanic students people like you
said the same thing. It's self-selecting, the principal
shipped out the bad kids, and so on. Nevermind the school
was a shithole for 20 years before that. Now parents want
their kids to attend there and the effect is snowballing.
You have to start somewhere and putting kids in an
environment conducive to learning is part of that.
You cannot allow a few disruptive kids to destroy the
entire system and the education of millions. The
teachers and administrators are very upset that that
school is doing well, which shows how sick the system is.
\- look i dont disagree with you that $16k/student is a
lot, but a couple of points:
1. the selection bias is a huge issue. my private
high school spend something like half what public
schools spent but they could choose who to take.
they didnt have govt mandates to meet special
education needs of of either handicapped students
or the pain in the ass factor of difficult
students.
2. surely you realize you can be matched one for one
with outrages in the private sector. the bart
supervisor making +$150k or the NYC school janitor
who is filed fishing on his boat during school hours
is trivial compared to corporate welfare, and the
or the golden parachutes for incompent but not
criminal executives in the private sector. private
industrury make be more efficient at many things
and one of them is extracting resources from the
govt.
\_ red herring: there is corporate graft so gvt
graft is ok. it isn't. gvt graft is far worse
because they extract my money by force and they
choose how much to extract. if a corporation
is run poorly they will go out of business. i
do not have to give them my money if they provide
a poor product or service or charge too much.
"surely you realize" this.
\- corporate graft [agaist shareholders] isnt
the same as corporate welfare or graft agaist
the govt. i'm not talking about high CEO
salaries, backdating options etc. more things
like no bid contracts, "socializing losses" etc
that is "theft from the taxpayers" just like
fraud in the oakland school district ...
except they are better at it and the amounts
are more. see savings and loan bail out,
agriculture subsidies etc.
\_ Uh huh, and this happens *only* because
the gvt has that money available because
it has taken it from tax payers. once the
gvt takes your money, it matters little if
they piss it away on public or private
theft. a corporation can not take
anything from me in a clean-gvt environment.
clean the gvt and the rest automatically
follows. you can not clean your sort of
gvt-aided corporation theft while the
gvt is dirty.
\- this "starve the beast" analysis is
ridiculous. you are choosing between
what is possible not what is platonic.
"the main reason american soldiers get
killed is because we sent them to war"
-> people in favor of war hate the troops
BTW, if the corporations can influence
what the standard is for breach of
fiduciary duty and can get directors and
officers insurance, then they certainly
can rip you off. you should read
barbarians at the gate for example.
do you know how conflicts of interest
work in practice during LBOs? you might
also want to read james surowiecki.
\_ I never said starve the beast. The
rest of your stuff has nothing to do
with what I said. I said a clean gvt
will not give my tax dollars to corps
for stupid/corrupt things.
\_ I don't think you will find too many
people arguing for a corrupt gov't. There
have been arguments about how to best
allocate resources for as long as their
have been gov'ts, which is to say since
the beginning of recorded history. What
kind of things do you advocate to help
clean up gov't, other than your somewhat
ambiguous notion that it should be
smaller? It seems to me that campaign
finance reform might be a better place
to start.
\_ I didn't say it should be smaller,
just that what they do have should be
spent more wisely and less wastefully.
If there was real oversight of budgets
we stopped all earmarks, and corps
were no longer 'citizens' with rights
and were not allowed to donate money
to politicians, that would go a long
way to clean gvt. What is your
solution?
again, read somebody like martin wolf.
i think there are a number of outragous cases
where "sepcial need" students have disporprotionate
resources spent on them, but just like heavy public
medical subsidies of "lost causes", it's a hard
problem.
\_ Like the birth-right citizenship person before you, it
sounds like your issue is with problems in how the education
system is run, not necessarily the system itself. Although
it may be more work, fixing the system is likely to prove
less expensive and more beneficial to society as a whole than
simply abandoning the system entirely and jumping to vouchers
spent at private schools or academies (many of which are
founded by people looking to make a quick buck by preying on
parents who are frightened of a public education, and many
of which are destined to go out of business in less than five
years).
\_ It's impossible to fix the system. It doesn't want to
be fixed. The solution we are proposing is to form our
own school district and secede. I guess you can call
that 'fixing'.
\_ It's not impossible to fix the system. It will, however,
take a lot of work, dedication, and determination. I
understand that this is not as sexy as, say, vouchers
for private schools and military academies, but the
end result is a stable, beneficial system.
\_ People have been trying to fix this problem for
20 years now. There's a point where you just say
'Screw it' and start from scratch.
\_ For most people, this point is when their kids
have graduated, which means we have to count on
a new crop.
\_ We should forcibly bus the kids from gated communities to
ghetto public schools. That way we ensure a level playing
\_ I see you are a budding Jonathan Swift, but FWIW we did this.
That's how the schools got screwed up to begin with. Then the
parents who really cared took their kids out and sent them
private, leaving behind only those too poor or unconcerned. It
had a devastating effect. Now our 'racially integrated'
schools have no caucasian or Asian students and the other
kids who want to learn are screwed. It's so much better now.
field. We should ban private schools. We should also ban
marriage, so that gays, bisexuals, and non-sexuals will
not be disadvantaged, and kids with single parents won't
be disadvantaged over kids with married parents. Actually we
should take kids away at birth and randomly assign parents
for them. We should make food and housing free for all,
and energy for heating and cooking and lighting and hot water,
and health care, because all those things are basic human rights
needed for survival. We should ban automobiles and ban wasteful
single family housing structures. All housing structures shall
be randomly assigned but with economic and ethnic backgrounds
balanced, and mandatory "community learning sessions" shall take
place 3 days per week. Community job centers shall provide
equal-opportunity employment, with jobs to be defined by
each employee.
\_ This is truly brilliant.
\_ at least school districts are more incompetent at stealing
your tax dollars than halliburton. i do think we should
stop glorifying school teachers ... i've some school teachers
who were smart but quite a few seem to be glorfied day care
personnel. but at least the rank and file teacher arent as
venal as school administrators. but again even they arent
ken lay, dennis kozlowski etc. you should read martin wolf.
\_ Oh, you're just selfish and hate children.
\_ Motd says you're contributing to the common social good and you
should be happy to be paying these taxes because there is no
other possible way to educate children other than turning them
over to the state for several hours a day. The schools can get
better only by raising your taxes even more. Teachers are
starving. Students are failing and not learning the right
things. It is all your fault.
\_ Incorrect: it's not op's fault, it's your fault.
\_ I'm in favor of 100% tax rates and therefore maximum
government revenue for maximum social good. how is it my
fault, comrade?
\_ Not your comrade, you filthy communist bastard, and
there's your problem in a nutshell: some regulation and
government organization != communism. Embrace compromise.
\_ This isn't about regulation. This is about control.
The power to tax is the power to destroy. And you,
comrade, obviously are in need of higher taxes. For
the common social good, of course. Embrace social
good.
\_ Marriage is slavery! All men are rapists! Dems
tax and spend! You're missing a lot of !!!
\_ Where did you find this out? Considering the general veracity
of the "facts" you state on the motd, I would need verification
before I would believe it, especially considering average per
pupil spending in CA is half that. -ausman
\_ Average spending per pupil does not account for things like
facilities. From CA DOE:
"This amount includes the cost of employee salaries and
benefits, books and supplies and replacement of school
equipment. The current expense of education does not include
non-instructional expenses such as construction and
acquisition of facilities, benefits for retired employees
and food services."
CA spends about $70B dollars each year to educate 6M K-12
students, or almost $12K per student per year - not the $7K
you often see quoted.
you often see quoted. Maybe more. Not sure if $70B considers
locally voted indebtedness or funding sources like PTA.
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/StateAgencyBudgets/6010/agency.html
Our district has a lot of facilities for the number of kids
(since so many have been lost to private over the last 40 years)
and has been shuttering schools, which is ridiculous in itself
when you consider that almost everywhere else they are building
more schools and complaining about a shortage of space. --dim
\_ Your math is off quite a bit as there are really 6.4M K-12
students and some of the Dept of Education budget is for
adult education. The best I can figure the real numbers are
67.5B/6.4M kids = $10.5k/student, not the $12k you bandy
about. But you have a point that the Dept of Education takes
\_ You are splitting hairs here. $10.5K is still a lot of
money. You can go to a good private school for that money
and actually receive an education. The best public
school districts spend more than $10.5K I'm sure.
That's just what they get from the state and federal
governments as far as I can tell.
\_ Plenty of people go to public schools and get a perfectly
fine education. Things could always be better, but
there is lots of evidence that the schools in CA are
getting better. I will probably send my daughter to
improving. I will probably send my daughter to
\_ Plenty of people go to public schools and get a
perfectly fine education. Things could always be
better, but there is lots of evidence that the schools
in CA are improving. I will probably send my daughter to
public school (and I can afford private). The best
public schools rival the best private schools in
education quality, so I am not sure what point you
are trying to make, except perhaps that a great
education costs quite a bit of money.
\_ 1. The best public schools do not rival the best
private schools. There are some very good
public schools, but no one is ever going to
confuse those with an Exeter or Groton. Of
course, those schools cost quite a bit more, too.
I realize that.
\_ Compare Stuyvesant's Ivy League admission
rate to Exeter's.
\_ Can I send my kid there? I live in CA.
Also, talk about self-selecting.
Also, talk about self-selecting. BTW,
I think Exeter's rate is higher. Stuyvesant
sends more in terms of numbers because it
is larger. Why would one want to go to
a private university anyway? I am offended
that you would use that as a metric
instead of looking at the rate of
acceptance to glorious UC.
\_ Exeter is probably a bit higher, but
they are in the same league anyway.
I don't think I would want to send my
child to boarding school anyway, but
maybe I will feel differently once she
is a teenager. If you really want UC
admission send them to Lowell High
which is in SF.
2. No one has a problem with the top 10% of
public schools. It's that bottom 90% (and
especially bottom 30%) that's the real problem.
3. Personally (and this is just my preference) I
wouldn't send by kid to even the best public
wouldn't send my kid to even the best public
school. However, I still think a quality
"public" education is important, because not
everyone has that choice in the current system.
a large "tribute." You still haven't provided any evidence that
they spend $16k/student in your district.
a large "tribute." You still haven't provided any evidence
that they spend $16k/student in your district.
\_ Sorry, but I cannot find this online. Is it really
far-fetched when the average is $10.5K? Like I said,
we have a lot of schools and a shrinking number of
kids which makes the overhead higher than most places.
(I read it is 2x higher than the state average.)
\_ Why does everyone else's esstimate of per pupil spending
\_ Why does everyone else's estimate of per pupil spending
in CA differ so widely from yours. You are the one
making the outrageous claim here, back it up.
\_ What do you want me to do? I can't find it online.
Take it or leave it. I don't think $16K is
outrageous when the average is $11K.
\- ausman: the range in CA is really wide. that number is plausible
for a state school district, but it is hard to imagine it is
in such a poorly perfomring school district ... i.e. not
saratoga or CA. i can believe high spending per student with
poor performance in a place like SF (NYC spends something
like 14k per student ... but the top hedge fund guy made more
money last year than all the NYC teacher put together ... for
three years). but all that being given, i was wondering if the
number was correct as well.
\_ SF has generally good results and does not spend that much
per pupil. link:preview.tinyurl.com/2jxbxb (PDF)
\_ Hmm, I forgot SF public schools was very heavily
asian. I am guessing that keeps costs down. I was
just thinking about the white flight and minitory-heavy
side. Might be interesting to look at oakland hills vs
oakland flats.
\_ The experiment has already begun. Google "oakland
school district demographics"; the first hit is a 2007
report noting that OUSD is hemorrhaging students,
particularly African-American students; they're "out-
migrating" to non-bankrupt School Districts (cf.
articles on fraudulent enrollment in cities like
Hercules).
\_ Perhaps you should move to San Francisco:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/33293.html
\- special announcement: there is another long piece on ADRIAN
FENTY and MICHELLE RHEE's Washington DC school reform program
on TV tonight. it is about halfway through the MACNEIL-LEHERER
SHOW today. n.b. FENTY and RHEE are respectively the mayor and
school chief for DC. they are also both about 37! the evil
arlene ackerman was in DC before she came to SF. ok tnx. |
| 2007/12/17-20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48818 Activity:nil |
12/17 First Scott Peterson, now Drew Peterson. What's wrong with the
Petersons?
\_ Learn to use apostrophes.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html
\_ Fixed. However, once when I wrote "VMs" when I meant virtual
machines, someone thought I had a typo for VMS. -- OP
\_ Common usage in English is to use the apostrophe after an
acronym if it's necessary to disambiguate.
\_ I see. Thx. -- OP
\_ Umm, by that logic, you should be making all sorts
of spelling/grammar/punctuation errors. Commonly,
people are not that good at English.
\_ Common accepted usage. |
| 2007/12/16-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48814 Activity:nil |
12/15 A guide to the official U.S. torture system
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/12/hbc-90001917 |
| 2007/11/5-8 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48539 Activity:nil |
11/5 Free Reiser!
http://www.freereiser.org
Trial starts this morning.
\_ You think he didn't kill her?
\_ where is the body?
\_ probbaly vacationing in Russia.
\_ you don't need a body. by your question you imply that by
properly disposing of a body you can't be convicted of
murder. and good question: if she's alive, where is she?
I've followed this on and off since it started. Unless
something really amazing comes out at trial in his favor,
he's going up the river.
\_ something amazing like his wife's lover (and his friend)
ADMITTING to killing like 8 people already? I'm not
saying he's innocent, but there is plenty of "amazing"
to go around.
\_ That was just in the Wired intervidew! Who reads that
anymore.
\_ Maybe he will end up like this cop:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/06/missing.woman/index.html |
| 2007/11/2-4 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48521 Activity:nil |
11/2 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071102/lf_nm_life/usa_highways_sleep_dc '"Maggie's Law," is named after a 20-year-old college student, Maggie McDonnell, who was killed by a drowsy driver in 1997. The driver admitted to being awake for 30 hours after smoking crack cocaine. His lawyer successfully argued that there was no law in the state against falling asleep at the wheel. The judge barred the jury from considering the driver's sleep deprivation as a factor in the crash. He was fined $200.' Two-hundred dollars for killing someone. WTF? \_ Names named after innocent girls are always stupid \_ yeah.. like yer-mom \_ Laws named after innocent girls are always stupid \_ Was she riding a bicycle or something? \_ This is stupid. What if it was not due to drowsiness, but just accidential? The driver made a mistake? How can he possibily be off by just paying $200? So next time I hit someone I'll just say I am sleepy and that's it? America is great isn't it? At least in China you get executed. -troll \_ Let me guess, no general "driving under the influence" law, just a "driving while ETOH intoxicated" law? |
| 2007/10/25-29 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48447 Activity:high |
10/25 http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/25/innocence.project/index.html If a man wasted 1/2 of his life for a crime he didn't commit, will the party that was responsible (e.g. the "state") compensate him? \_ The state only compensates white men. \_ Yes, but only when ordered to by a judge. However, many individuals incarcerated for crimes they didn't commit were already wanted for/ guilty of other crimes they did commit; the charges for those things are generally lumped into the sentence for the thing they didn't commit, so when the time is computed, they often end up barely ahead. Also, when confronted with evidence of other crimes, most agree to not push the issue. \_ uh.... what are you talking about? the people who spent 20 years in jail for a rape or murder they didnt commit seem plenty angry and aren't just going along with their crimes being lumped into a sentence somewhere. guess i got trolled. \_ No troll. While some people who have been wrongly incarcerated will seek (and be rewarded) compensation, many others will not on the basis that they were likely suspects for other crimes. This is not to condone police techniques or excuse bad police work. \_ I'm interested in why you think this actually occurs. The Innocence Project cases I have read about are almost always $BROWN_GUY fingered in some shady police lineup or was picked up by the cops after a crime was committed and they needed a $BROWN_GUY because a witness to a crime said a $BROWN_GUY did something terrible and all @BROWN_GUYS look alike. Where the hell are you getting this "most of these guys don't complain because they did something bad anyway."? I'm not a lawyer, but I think you're a sheltered idiot. \_ And you're a fuckwit. However, I understand your point about how the wrongly convicted should be compensated. I'm suggesting that in a significant number of cases, when the cops go the route of least effort (i.e., laziness) and pin it on a patsy, they pick their patsy on the basis of likeliness to convict, which is to say they put it on someone who's done other things and is likely to serve time for another crime anyway. The Innocence Project is a great idea, but remember that the candidates are pre- screened to weed out the "I got jailed for X when I should have been jailed for Y" crowd. \_ I hope you the next time you drive a cop pulls you over and decides it's just your day and impounds your car and abandons you since you've probably broken a few traffic laws in your life but no one saw you and you merrily went along your way. \_ And I hope you realize that pointing out that things happen is not an endorsement of the way they happen. I support the Innocence Project. \_ Just torture him until he confesses. It's the American Way! \_ Yes, but no amount of monetary compensation can make up for spending half your life in prison. \_ Google: wrongly convicted compensation Lots of good material out there. |
| 2007/10/23-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48421 Activity:moderate |
10/22 I haven't trolled emarkpd in a while. How's that Mormon thing
coming along?
\_ He still supports Bush and his Iraq War in the glorious name
of freedom. Troll on that.
\_ Wow. Now I'm a daemon process? -emarkp
\_ Hey emarkp, why are Republicans against renewal energy and weed?
\_ Because all Republicans are evil neanderthals and all Democrats
are living incarnations of the essence of Good. This is the
motd, there is no other fact you need know. Run along.
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalocalypse
\_ you know there is a lot of current evidence that Republicans
and their media machine and all the noisy right wing blogs
are really run by insane, evil neanderthals bent on destroying
all that is good in this world. democrats just aren't that
organized.
\_ Straw man. No one on the motd believes the latter statement
(though perhaps many believe the former).
\_ They don't believe it but they sure say it on the motd
a lot. Are they all trolls? No, there are people right
here on the motd who actually believe it.
\_ I have never seen anyone post to the motd that Democrats
are all perfect, except in satire. Can you find one for
me?
\_ This is the place to be to see Democrat politico
stupidly defended to the bitter end. The most
recent case being "Reid+40 other (D) Senators wrote
a smearing lie letter to a radio show host's boss
in an effort to help charity". But really you know
that and many other things I don't have to dig out
of the archives. There's no point. Go post your
final comment if you like. I won't respond any
futher to such an obvious troll. You've been fed
enough today.
\_ can we please classify dans as "idiot" rather
than "democrat"?
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
-- ilyas
\_ But ilyas, isn't the wikipedia composed by
the crowds of unwashed masses? Isn't it a
tool for unsuspecting fools and morons
doomed to be duped by faux inexpert
wisdom; the blind leading the blind if you
will? I'm shocked. Shocked I say that you
would quote from such a source. -dans
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman
-- ilyas
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
-dans
\_ Nope, more like his idiocy trumps everything
else. It's not that he isn't a true democrat,
it's that he is also a true egotistical moron
as well.
\_ Clearly I'm doing sometthing right if I'm
pissing people off this much. -dans
\_ I don't think dans would consider himself a
Democrat, but am ready to concede here if wrong.
How about it dans, are you a Democrat?
\_ No, but I have voted for Democrats in the
past. -dans |
| 2007/10/16-18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48333 Activity:moderate |
10/16 Haha, I like how quickly Jon Elliott 'connects the dots' from 'she was
injured' to 'she was mugged' to 'it's a right wing conspiracy.'
http://csua.org/u/jqp
\_ Turns out she wasn't mugged after all
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/16/2007-10-16_air_america_host_randi_rhodes_wasnt_mugg.html
\_ How 'bout we wait until actual details come out (As Elliot should
have done.. But hey, he's got airtime to fill). BTW, the Daily
News is a small step above drudge on "breaking" stories.
Like from her herself:
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=25413&cat=11
\_ Sorry I didn't scour the internet for a source you approve.
Blowhard.
\_ Seriously, you count the daily news as a reputable news
source? Please start signing your posts with a unique
identifier so we can ignore you.
\_ Same to you blowhard. Seriously, If I have a list of 10
sites all reporting exactly the same thing, you expect me
to get really worried about the one you like best?
\_ I dub thee Suckhard. -!pp |
| 2007/10/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48298 Activity:high 52%like:48303 |
10/11 Clearly, the Nobel Peace Prize has a well known liberal bias.
\_ Truth has a well known liberal bias as well.
\_ Despite all the evidence!
\_ http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm
\_ Arafat won a peace prize too.
\_ Arafat was a liberal?
\_ No, Arafat was the kind of brutal killer a certain brand
of liberals love to fawn over for some weird reason.
\_ You know that Arafat did not actually win the peace
prize himself, right? You do understand that it was
shared with Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin. Why, do
you imagine, the Nobel Comittee would award a peace
prize to a group of three people like that?
\_ Oh of course. I have to wonder what Gore has actually done for
peace. He made a movie with significant factual errors? Wow.
\- i'm not a big fan of ALGOR but he's a better choice than that
dumb tree planting woman or rigoberta menchu, massive liar.
the should have co-awarded it to BLOMBORG for "spearheading
a debate on environmental change".
\_ What does GW have to do with peace?
\_ Let's time travel back to 1973 and have this discussion about
Kissinger's award, mmmmmkay?
\_ Name one war Gore stopped.
\_ It is your opinion that the movie contains significant
factual errors. A majority of climate scientists would
disagree with you. It is pretty much impossible to make
a documentary without any piddling errors. Do you believe
in Creation Science, too?
\_ Or in Al's case very serious errors.
\_ I notice you are avoiding the question.
\_ If you look at the list of NPP winners over the last 30-40 years
you'll find so many idiotic decisions that it is difficult for a
rational person to take them seriously anymore. It just doesn't
matter.
\_ Many rational people take them seriously. Perhaps you think
that the Nobel Prizes don't matter, but if you do, you
would be wrong.
\_ Uhm yeah. Well said. Next up: I know you are but what am I?
\_ 'Regular' Nobel prizes are very prestigious. The Nobel Peace
Prize became a joke when Arafat won. -- ilyas
\_ The conventional Nobel prizes are very prestigious. The
Nobel Peace prize was a joke ever since Arafat won. -- ilyas
\_ In your opinion, which of course everyone in the whole
wide world shares. Do you honestly believe that your
opinions are mainstream, ilyas? -ausman
\_ "That's like, your opinion, man." Why did you even
write that post? -- ilyas
write that post? No content. -- ilyas
\_ There is a very small group of pro-war people,
mostly people who despise any non-violent effort
at conflict resolution and whose livelihood depends
on warfare, who think that the Nobel Peace Prize
is "a joke." To the overwhelming majority of
humanity, it is a very presitigious award, perhaps
humanity, it is a very prestigious award, perhaps
the most prestigious award a human being can win.
There, is that better? -ausman
\_ Surprisingly, it is actually possible to
not take the Nobel Peace prize seriously, and
also NOT hate kittens. The Nobel committee gave
the award in question to a known butcher, without
bothering to check if the 'agreement' would hold,
in the face of decades of similar agreements
failing to work. Naturally, the 'peace' didn't
take, but you know. Who cares about peace.
Would you support giving Kim Jong Il the Peace
prize? The fellow runs a nightmare gulag state,
but I am sure he can sit down for a peace accord
too. Especially if there is no requirement that
he keep his word. Incidentally, did you know
that at least one Nobel committee member resigned
over Arafat?
P.S. Are you familiar with Larry Ellison's phrase
'Bozo explosion?' It's a way in which startups
\_ Yes case in point Google. Start shorting
man, you'll thank me for it.
eventually succumb to inertia as they grow and
mature. 'Bozo explosion' is a general phenomenon,
it affects not just corporations but traditions
(consider the Olympic games corruption scandals),
non-profit orgs (consider what happened to LA's
Griffith Observatory), and apparently even
prestigious prizes. -- ilyas
\_ You know, I am a pretty careful student of
Middle Eastern history and I have never before
heard of a Palestinian-Isreali peace treaty
heard of a Palestinian-Israeli peace treaty
that was signed by leaders from both sides
before. Can you give me some more information
about this treaty? As for your confused notion
about constitutes a prestigious or important
prize, I will say that historical figures almost
always seem more important after they are dead.
I am sure the award to MLK was pretty
about what constitutes a prestigious or
significant prize, I will say that historical
figures always seem more important after they
are dead. I am sure the award to MLK was pretty
controversial in 1964, as well. -ausman
\_ Are you comparing Arafat to MLK now? Wow.
Prizes are a social signal, nothing more.
The process by which prizes are awarded is
a noisy one. If this process gets so noisy
that 'obviously bad people' get the prize,
the prize is no longer a meaningful signal,
e.g., "This prize recipient is a good
person/productive contributor, etc. ...
unless we happened to fuck up and the person
is actually a murderer/thug/moocher/
political stooge." Bad award decisions
reflect on the award, I am afraid. -- ilyas
\_ I notice you are unable to provide me with
any similar peace treaty, in spite of your
earlier claims to the contrary. You are
aware that the Nobel Peace Prize is an
international prize, right? And you are
aware that Arafat is one of the most
highly regarded people ever in the Arab
world, right? I personally do not regard
Arafat as on the level of MLK, but would
not be surprised if he is by most people
in twenty or thirty years: it all depends
on how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
works itself out. I think that Rabin and
Arafat took great personal and political
risks to come to an agreement, which they
should be commended for. Rabin was
assassinated for it, as was Sadat a decade
earlier, for daring to come to a similar
accord. Remember, there are still a bunch
of fanatical peace hating extremists on
both (many?) sides in the ME, who are
willing to kill leaders on their own
side who try to come to a peaceful accord.
Did you approve of the assassination of
Rabin and Sadat? Want Arafat and Peres
assassinated?
\_ Let's see: Linus Pauling, Martin Luther King, UNICEF,
Andrei Sakharov, Amnesty International, Anwar Sadat &
Menachim Begin, Mother Teresa, Lech Walesa, The UN
Peacekeepers, Nelson Mandela & Fredrik De Klerk,
Medecins Sans Frontieres. What a worthless bunch!
\_ Yeah, we need a Nobel War Prize, so some Republicans can win some.
\_ What I find sad about this is that there *had* to be someone out
there who has actually done something about making the world a
more peaceful place instead of turning the prize into a political
award for correct behavior. How many truly worthy people were
passed over to give Al a hat tip?
\_ Name one.
\- BTW, it's not only the Peace prizes with a mixed record.
The Lit prize is criticized for poor choices too. |
| 2007/10/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48223 Activity:nil |
10/2 Back to OJ Simpson: anyone want to explain how you can get away with
killing 2 people but get 30 years on burglary? Is there
something wrong with our justice system?
\_ 1) Can't. 2) Yes. |
| 2007/10/1-5 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48216 Activity:moderate |
10/01 Murtha is sued by Marine cleared in Haditha case for defamation.
Federal judge refuses dismissal and orders Murtha to testify.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j-LnJlto4CJin4_NnKFQIIGSm2hQD8RUNA800
\_ I am sorry, but this is idiotic. This is like filing defamation
charges against a DA because he calls someone a drug dealer.
\_ If you're not convicted, even a DA is not allowed to call someone
that.
\_ "even" = "especially"
\_ What do you call what the DA does every single day of the
week, when he files charges against people?
week, when he files charges against people? He has what is
called "absolute privilege" when he is doing his job as a
DA and so does a Senator. This judge is a nut case.
\_ His court room job is to find out the truth of the case,
not to assume guilt. How sad that our system has come to
this. He is not supposed to run around calling unconvicted
people criminals. They're not.
\_ Google "absolute privilege" and get back to me. Murtha
was doing his job from the floor of the Senate. It is
an open and shut case.
\_ Murtha is a criminal scumbag and slamming innocent
American soldiers from the senate floor is an abuse
of his senate privileges. Google "Murtha scumbag"
and get back to me. He called innocent men murderers
and that's ok with you, apparently.
\_ No, I don't think it is okay. I also don't think
it is illegal. Do you understand the difference? |
| 2007/9/18-22 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48093 Activity:moderate |
9/18 So why isn't Mr Oh So Dissapointed in the Dems because Jefferson
was corrupt so obviously all Democrats are corrupt spouting the
same line about Ted Stevens and the Republicans?
\_ There's a difference between finding $90K in the freezer and an
ongoing corruption investigation. By all means though, get rid of
Stevens. When will you call for Jefferson to be ousted?
\_ The guy admitted in open court to bribing Stevens. If that's
not as damning or more than Jefferson's cold cash, you're smoking
shit you shouldn't be.
\_ I called from him to be ousted from day one. Both of them
are not yet found guilty, but for both of them the evidence
is pretty fucking damning. Both should not be in the Senate.
\_ His "bridge to nowhere" was enough for me to want him out.
Glad we can agree on something. -pp
\_ And so why isn't Stevens not a stunning example of
why all Republicans are corrupt?
\_ And so why is Stevens not a stunning example of
how all Republicans are corrupt?
\_ Can you decide how many negatives you want there?
\_ Bad edit, fixed now.
\_ He's an example of *him* being corrupt. And I'm
dissapointed the R's aren't removing him from the
appropriation committee. Good thing I'm not an R.
\_ I agree with you 100%. I just want to point out
that the all dems are evil dude is a pathetic
hypocrite. -op
\_ If only such a person existed as more than straw.
\_ I guess I've not seen the "All Dems are Evil guy." I seen the "all
Rs are evil guy" a lot....
\_ You must be new around here.
\_ Are you sure it isn't just a case of only seeing what you
want? The motd is a huge lefty echo chamber of dittoness.
Anyway, op is a troll since there is no "All Dems are Evil
guy" here. There *is* "Dems are no better guy" and there
is "A pox on both your houses, you're all Evil guy", though.
\_ Yeah, I remember during the runup to the War, me and one
other guy were arguing against it and like 10 people were
arguing for it. Such a lefty echo chamber.
\_ Yeah I remember this one time 4 years ago when there
were like a few people in favor of something that most
of the country was also in favor of... yeah. Whatever.
\_ And now that almost everyone in the country is
against it, guess what opinion on the motd seems
to be? Whatever, indeed! But yeah, the most
vitrolic right-wingers seem to have abandoned
the field. Maybe they are out shooting photos
to put up on zombietime.
\_ Whats your point?
\_ That the motd is reflection of society, not
a "lefty echo chamber."
\_ You *really* believe that the motd which
is all college educated *berkeley* students
is a good reflection of society? Oookaaay.
\_ That would explain why the motd is
a seething mass of stupid. Of course the
lefty echo chamber theory would explain that
too. -- ilyas
\_ Out of curiousity am I considered a vitriolic
right-winger? -- ilyas
\_ No, just a libertarian kook. Not the same thing.
\_ more of a vitriolic nut case |
| 2007/9/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48089 Activity:nil |
9/17 Go OJ Simpson! You rule! |
| 2007/9/14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Military] UID:48059 Activity:nil |
9/12 CLEANSE.
\_ Sure, you can counteract the effects if you actually have
the time and discipline to do so, but how many have that?
Are you familiar with the studies correlating miles
driven with heart disease and obesity?
http://www.rand.org/news/press.04/09.27.html
\_ Where do you live? In some counties you can get a CCW without too
much trouble.
\_ What is CCW?
\_ Carry Concealed Weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry |
| 2007/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:48028 Activity:kinda low |
9/11 Replaced with direct url to crime alert:
http://police.berkeley.edu/crimealerts/2007/07-090907-63NC.html
\_ I would totally have just kicked his ass.
\_ Please do.
\_ More and more, I wish for some vigilantism. Of course, one
that is perfectly just - something that can't exist. Watch
Boondock Saints! |
| 2007/9/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47999 Activity:moderate |
9/10 Will Hsu have as much fallout as Abramoff?
\_ No
\_ Abramoff was a criminal working for other criminal republicans
in an ongoing effort to subvert the usc and all that is right and
\_ Abramoff wa s a criminal working f or other criminal republicans
in an ongoi ng effort to subvert t he usc and all that is right and
good in the world.
Hsu is a victim of racism and an overzealous hostile prosecutorial
system that seems to oppress and limit his natural free speech
right to assist his chosen and righteous candidate obtain high
office so she can fight the good fight for the entire village
against the barbarians.
Hsu is a vic tim of racism and an overzealous hostile prosecutori
system that se ems to oppress and limit his natural free speech
right to assist his c hosen and righteous candidate obtain high
o ffice so she can fig ht the good fight for the entire village
ag ainst the bar barians .
So, no.
\_ I know you think you're funny, but I can't figure out
how Hsu may have benefited from all of contributions.
\_ I kno w you think you're funny, but I can't figure out
ho w Hs u may have benefited from all of contributions.
This is an important distiction.
\_ You can't figure out how a businessman benefits from
contributing lots of money to politicians?
contrib uting lots of money to politicians?
\_ Yeah, I can't actually. What was he selling besides
suckering people into a Ponzi scheme in CA 15 years
ago? Exactly how does holding fundraisers jump start
my Ponzi scheme business that I can't tell anyone about
suck ering people into a Ponzi scheme in CA 15 years
a go? Exactly how does holding fundraisers jump start
my Ponz i scheme business that I can't tell anyone about
because if they figure out who I am I'll go to jail?
\_ If y o u can't see how bundled cash has destroyed our
s yst e m of government then please don't vote.
\_ If you can't see how bundled cash has destroyed our
system of government then please don't vote.
\_ Sorry, is there a quid-pro-quo actually being alleged?
I haven't seen anything other than "convicted felon
gave money, politicians give it away".
I haven 't s een anything other than "convicted felon
gave money, p oliticians give it away".
\_ If yo u ca n 't see how bundled cash has destroyed our
system of g overnment then please don't vote.
\_ If you can't see how bundled cash has destroyed our
system of government then please don't vote.
\_ But... But... Money is SPEECH! You don't want to
LIMIT SPEECH, do you?! Until we have public funding
of elections, bundled money will persist. And
unsavory characters will pop up. You seem to be
insinuating, though, that taking Hsu's money auto-
matically means that politician is corrupt. If you
can't see that's not necessarily true, you're the
one in need of the civics lesson.
\_ Money corrupts. Bundled money corrupts absolutely
and has for a long time. Was there quid pro quo
on this particular bundled cash? I don't know and
I don't care and I don't think it matters. It is
a systematic problem. I have never stated a
preference either way on public funding or the
'money is free speech' concept so I don't know
why you're going there. Money = corruption. Big
money = big corruption. This isn't that hard to
understand. If you're still looking at this as
a "I must defend Hillary from her evil attackers!"
issue then don't bother. She isn't that
important. She's just one symptom of a greater
illness in the government.
\_ So what are you doing about it and what do you
think a solution would be? Just complaining
doesn't do much to help, if anything at all.
\_ This wasn't about what I am personally
doing about it. This is about "does
bundled money corrupt government or not?"
And my answer is "yes it does".
\_ I agree with you 100%. I am just (mostly)
at a quandry as to what to do about it.
Got any suggestions?
\_ What he said, and also, this "pox on both
their houses crap" is for the weak.
\_ How very black and white Bush of you. "You
are either with us or against us!". I'm a
politically aware moderate and if your
party (whichever that may be) keeps pushing
your one sided idiocy your asses will be
out of office. The real power is at the
center in the hands of swing voters. Your
party will displease us at their peril.
\_ Hu is Hsu? |
| 2007/8/30-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47831 Activity:nil |
8/30 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347 10-minute police interview with Sen. Craig (D) \_ You realize that Sen. Craig is a republican, right? IE only, click "Hear an audio recording" \_ I got it to work in Firefox. |
| 2007/8/6-22 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:47538 Activity:nil |
8/5 How the HB1B Visa program really works:
http://www.youtube.com/user/programmersguild
\_ "H-1B"
\_ Common knowledge. So what are you gonna do?
\_ Is this a hoax?
\_ http://www.cohenlaw.com/attorneys-81.html
\_ If all these were true, why would an exployer go through all these
trouble and the associated expenses (attorney fees, HR expense, time
for managers to inverview those "very qualifed" candidates) just to
hire an H-1B worker? What's the upside for the employer?
hire an H-1B worker? What's the upside for the employer? (Unless
those employers are all trying to hire their friends and relatives.)
\_ (a) the H-1B is usually pretty qualified for the job
(b) it's difficult for the H-1B to leave - you obviously have not
seen firsthand the desperation of an H-1B trying to push the
green card process forward with their employer
(c) better leverage over the H-1B because of (b)
\_ Regarding (b), on the contrary I was under the H-1B visa
myself a decade ago. --- PP |
| 2007/8/1-3 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47498 Activity:nil |
8/1 Laptops may decrease your sperm count.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/11/mens.health.myths
\_ We don't need to use protection, I'm a computer geek! |
| 2007/7/27-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47445 Activity:nil |
7/27 This is one crazy story.
http://news.google.com/news?&ncl=1118495264
One of the suspects is the scion of a wealthy Russian family.
I like how seomeone went through wikipedia already and linked
their pages to the younger suspect. |
| 2007/7/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47440 Activity:nil |
7/26 at least it wasn't black people this time
http://news.google.com/news?&ncl=1118495264 |
| 2007/7/25-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:47422 Activity:nil |
7/25 http://billoreilly.com being investigated by Secret Service http://newsfortheleft.blogspot.com/2007/07/bill-oreilycom-being-investigated-by.html \_ Huh, I guess I don't really see that as a direct threat. Stupid thing to say though. \_ It's mostly just ironic because Bill is currently on television calling certain websites "hate speech sites" because of certain stupid comments made by some of their members. \_ Such as? |
| 2007/7/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47401 Activity:low |
7/24 The polls are in. Edwards tried his best and did ok, but in the
end he has no chance. It's either a woman or a black man. Which
one would you choose and why? (YouNeedToVoteToSeeResults)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/debates/scorecard/youtube.debate
\_ His being a slimeball personal injury lawyer may have something to
do with that.
\_ I think he did some good work. Do you really want all
of your children's intestines sucked out by a pool?
\_ Do /you/ want him channeling children to get a sympathetic
jury to trump good science in CP cases?
\_ And this is better or worse than Frist channeling a
brain dead woman for political grandstanding?
\_ False dichotomy. They could be equally bad. I don't
recall him channelling her though.
\_ Hmmm, the criminal or the racist, what a choice!
\_ Just like a cracker to think that all black men are criminals.
\_ I think you're joking, but just to clarify, Hillary is the
criminal.
\_ Yawn. Baseless accusations are so boring. Perhaps you can
organize a website to collect both your tinfoil hat and
your "proof"?
\_ Funny, I considered the "Obama is racist" claim to be
more controversial...
\_ Didn't Hillary kill Vince Foster?
\_ Just to watch him die.
\_ With her bare hands. In front of a busload of nuns.
\_ Bro's before ho's
\_ Thank you Butler.
\_ It's a poll about a 'debate' on youtube. There is no 'there' there. |
| 2007/7/20-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47363 Activity:low |
7/20 "Marine spared prison time in Iraqi death"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070720/ap_on_re_us/marines_iraq_shooting
Wow! What justice is that?
\_ Which part are you talking about?
\_ The part that he doesn't even go to prison after a murder.
\_ You skipped that part where they dropped the murder charge,
huh? So it wasn't murder. At least read your own links
before posting, please.
\_ you're begging the question
\_ Enlighten me. The court decided he wasn't a murderer
so he didn't get the penalty for murder. And? Are you
one of the people who think Libby is a liar solely
based on the fact that he was convicted of it despite
all facts to the contrary? Hope not, it would be so
disheartening to think there were hypocrites on the
motd. ;-)
\_ please describe your parameters |
| 2007/7/19-21 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47340 Activity:nil |
7/19 from http://talkingpointsmemo.com From Maria Bartiromo's interview of Condi Rice in the current issue of BusinessWeek: MB: Would you consider a position in business or on Wall Street? CR: I don't know what I'll do long-term. I'm a terrible long-term planner. |
| 2007/7/13-14 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47275 Activity:moderate |
7/13 "Under the president's reasoning, any while-collar defendant should
receive no jail time, regardless of the reprehensibility of the crime."
U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White, a Bush appointee, said before
sentencing attorney Troy Ellerman to prison.
DAMN LIBERAL JUDGES!!!!!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/13/BAGR7QVVIF1.DTL&type=printable
\_ I was confused when reading that in the paper today. I couldn't
figure out why the judge would bring up Scooter while sentencing
someone. I mean I can see why, but legally... it shouldn't
matter.
\_ Eh, please read more carefully? The defense lawyer cited
the commutation in asking for a lighter sentence.
\_ Because Bush explicitly said that the sentance was too high.
That was his rational. Not that the crime wasn't exactly as
the prosecution claimed but that jail time was too much for
the crime. Therefore jail time should be too much for someone
else charged with the same crime, no?
\- i just want to point out this is bullshit ... kinda
like when MSFT wanted to pay a fine in donated software.
-------------------------------------------------------
White gave Ellerman until Sept. 13 to report to
prison. He did not impose a fine, saying it would be
a hardship for Ellerman's family, but ordered the
attorney to give talks at 10 California law schools
about "the importance of being a fair and honest
advocate" in the three-year period after his release.
-------------------------------------------------------
1. i dont want an ethics lecture from a criminal
2. he will probably put "lectured at X law school"
on his resume
3. this is hardly unpleasant work
4. he should have to do something involving a
a orange jumpsuit and used chewing gum.
\_ He still has to go to jail for 2 years doesn't he? |
| 2007/7/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47214 Activity:nil |
7/7 One lawyer's opinion on the fed government's use of
conspiracy charges:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/snitch/cases/clark.html
\_ Unless you are Scooty Libby or some other well connected GOP
insider, in which case you are above the law. |
| 2007/7/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47149 Activity:low |
7/2 Three more judges (two of them Republican) join the
MSM/Karl Rove/Dick Cheney conspiracy to put Libby behind bars:
http://www.csua.org/u/j2h
\_ 'The three-judge panel of the appeals court rejected Libby's
request in a one-paragraph order, ruling he has not shown that
his appeal "raises a substantial question."'
\_ Hell, even John Dean called this one:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070615.html
\_ "...as are the steady stream of personal threats the judge
has received from the right-wing nuts who have called and
written him." Remember, they aren't terrorists, just good
patriotic Americans who are trying to correct an error.
\_ No one here said it was a conspiracy. They said he got screwed
which has happened to many innocent people in our justice system.
Why is it so hard to believe it happened to Libby?
\_ 'Cos he's an evasive scumbag who worked for a man who redefined
moral ambiguity to mean "anything I want to do"?
\_ Covered this a dozen times already. He didn't evade and he
didn't even have to talk to the grand jury. He volunteered
to do so. But don't let facts get in the way of your bias
and agenda. Carry on.
\_ Why would a panel of 3 judges, 2 of them Republicans,
then say there was "overwhelming" evidence to his guilt
if he's innocent? The fact is he lied about the events
surrounding the outing of an undercover CIA agent.
If you think committing perjury
when it comes to treasonous activity is not a big deal
then say so. For instance, I admit 100% Clinton lied
about his relationship to Lewinsky under oath. I just
don't think lying about your sex life under oath is a
big crime.
if he's innocent?
\_ Why do you keep bringing up the political affiliation
of the various parties? If this is about real justice
then it shouldn't matter. If this is political then
justice and truth has nothing to do with it. As far as
treasonous activity and outing agents goes, *HE DIDN'T
DO THAT*. The guy who did do that was *known to the
prosecutor* _before_ Libby testified. This never had
anything to do with finding who talked about Plame.
If it did why was Armitage never prosecuted? Because
she wasn't undercover and no crime was committed re:
Plame's identity. Even if Libby lied his ass off, it
is no more a crime to lie about something that wasn't
a crime than it was to get nooky in the Oval Office
and lie about that. Sheesh, you really don't know
anything about the details of his case, huh? I guess
that never stopped anyone from posting to the motd.
\_ There were (at least) three leakers. Armitage,
Libby, Rove. Armitage didn't know plame's name
until it was brought to him. They (bush? cheney,
more likely. he likes [mis]using intel) wanted
the name out there. They got it. Libby took
the fall to protect "them". And now he's getting
his kickback, with the side bonus that he can still
plead the 5th if called before congress.
\_ Uh huh, and where is the prosecution of Armitage,
again? Riiight. The rest is just conspiracy.
\_ I guess you know more about the law than those
judges?
\_ Yummy, arguing from authority. I know the case
better than anyone here seems to.
\_ Lying to a Grand Jury is always a crime.
\_ Have you been with us today? That is exactly
what I've been telling you he didn't do.
Whatever.
\_ Perhaps your psychic powers could help us to find
Jon-Benet Ramsey's killers as well?
\_ I strongly encourage you to post your theories about
the "true Libby case" to The Economist's View blog
where they can be examined more thoroughly.
\_ I don't have theories. I followed the case which
no one else here apparently did. I've only
repeated documented facts about what happened in
front of the Grand Jury.
\_ They asked him about conversations and know-
ledge. He told them he couldn't remember. They
didn't believe him, and his own notes, memos,
and such indicated otherwise. Hence, they
charged him with perjury, and a jury of his
peers found him guilty. The Judge reviewed the
basis of the case and didn't find it wanting
enough to grant dismissal. He now has a chance
at appeal, but he still has to go to jail just
like anyone else who has been convicted. |
| 2007/6/26-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47070 Activity:nil |
6/26 "that poor girl [Jessie Davis] should have stuck with her own kind"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856303/posts
\_ yeah, humans rather than freepers.
\_ She shouldn't have commented that his dick is not as big as it's
supposed to be.
\_ He sure showed her how big a dick he was.
\_ stuck with women? Hawt Lesbo action! Such an odd thing to see
homosexuality promoetd on a freeper site. |
| 2007/6/25-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47056 Activity:nil |
6/25 "Jessie Davis is not a hate crime because a hate crime by
definition is committed by a tyrannical majority against an
oppressed minority."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1855650/posts
\_ It's homicide. He murdered this woman. Full stop.
\_ Defined by who? And no, I'm not going to visit the freepers to
find out. |
| 2007/6/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:47052 Activity:nil |
6/24 Partha alert, you have mentioned this issue before, here an
Economist has done a study on it (splitting the check):
http://www.csua.org/u/j09
\- your capitalizing "Economist" caused problems for my high
speed parser. i thought you were talking about The Economist.
Unwinding from that local minima, was very expensive.
otherwise it didnt say much that wasnt obvious i thought
[although thanks for posting it]. i think in practice,
dealing with the check splitting problem relies more on
social skills rather than econ theory ... the freeriding
problem is totally obvious in the case of strangers.
the realistic problem is how to split with friend and
friends of friends, and how to balance between fairness
and awkwardness ... like how far does somebody have to
drift from 1/n split to make special arrangements.
in general, i think people get off too easily because
too many people buy into the "being judgemenal is bad ...
it is intolerant" view. |
| 2007/6/20-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47020 Activity:nil |
6/20 OJ Simpson exploratory creative writing book
"IF I DID IT" book leaked online
\_ Can't be arsed myself, but would someone here please read it and
report back on how closely it matches how the prosecution says it
happened?
\_ no. |
| 2007/6/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46929 Activity:nil |
6/12 Hans Reiser trial postponed
http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_163171126.html
\_ Do the crime, do the time. Nice FS for certain data sets but
writing a nice FS doesn't get you off a murder rap.
\_ Kill your ex-wife. Go to jail. Writing an interesting FS does not
earn you a get out of jail card. |
| 2007/6/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46923 Activity:nil |
6/12 Courtroom of the absurd (this seriously had me LOL):
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/offbeat/?hpid=topnews
\_ I like the old lady Godwinning.
\_ Between this and Bork's "You made me fall down" lawsuit, it's quite
the week for legal laughs.
\_ If anything, today's is even better.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher |
| 2007/6/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46915 Activity:high 57%like:46907 |
6/11 Death penalty deters homicide (AP story)
http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/132840.html
(If you have comments on the study, make your comments below, don't
alter the OP.)
\_ Oh but this is so politically incorrect ......
\_ `The studies' conclusions drew a philosophical response from a
well-known liberal law professor and death penalty critic, Cass
Sunstein ...... "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are
skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate
consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the
death penalty."'
Mocan: "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he
said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the
death penalty [deters], What am I going to do, hide them?"
\_ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=928649
"We address this error by focusing on the subset of
homicides that have been defined statutorily as
capital-eligible to provide a more sensitive indicator of
the deterrent effects of the death penalty. We use a
public-use data archive based on police descriptions of
homicides from 1976-2003 to construct rates of potentially
death-eligible killings. We estimate that less than 25% of
total criminal homicides are eligible for the capital
sanction under the range of current state statutes. We find
no changes over time in the rate of these capital-eligible
homicides in death penalty states, despite fluctuations in
capital punishment over time. "
\_ The vast command of homicide law possessed by an average
potential murderer combined with these findings is sure to
debunk the study in OP's link! A more serious objection would
be to point out that no purely statistical study can determine
effect, period. -- ilyas
\_ The problem is that the presentation of the study if used as a
pro-death penalty argument neglects two major factors: first,
the objective logistical impossibility of ensuring that no
innocent persons are executed, and the entirely subjective
question as to whether it's right or wrong for a collective to
decide on life or death. -John
pro-death penalty argument neglects two major factors: first, the
objective logistical impossibility of ensuring that no innocent
persons are executed, and the entirely subjective question as to
whether it's right or wrong for a collective to decide on life or
death. -John
\_ Those are legitimate issues to debate. However, critics commonly
say of the death penalty that it's not a deterrent. I'd be
interested to see how this compares to (say) life without parole
(which is a sentence I'm increasingly seeing as favorable to the
death penalty). -emarkp
\_ I personally feel the "death penalty as a deterrent" point is
as irrelevant as the "death penalty as a disposal" or "death
penalty as a punishment" arguments. That was kind of what
I was getting at. -JOhn
\_ If you don't believe in the DP, then you won't find any
pro-DP points with merit. Just like abortion, God
existing/religion, evolution, and gun control, some issues
are not determined by logic, reason, statistics, facts, etc
but by people's personal philosophies and feelings. And
that is ok. We are not robots or computers and should not
always guide or measure society by pure logic and reason.
\- that's not true. i went from pro-DP to anti. although
i wasnt very strong pro and an not strong-anti,
for example i think while it is on the books, it's
resonable to ask for it in some cases, like timothy
mcveigh. i think it is too bad robert hanssen and and
alderidge ames didnt get the death penalty. if it was
more fairly applied, i might have switched back to pro.
my position: it is ok per constitution. i dont think
the cost of DP is that much of an issue. it's worth
researching the deterrence question ... like maybe
we can have DP for while collar crime above $10m and
see if it is detweent ... and i suppose society has
see if it is deterent ... and i suppose society has
the right to "take life". but the "machinery of
death" runs in a really disturbing way ... like non-
functioning electric chairs, leathal injections
incompetently administered to more subtle things like
statistical biases of death certified juries. but by
far the biggest thing is the disparate application.
it's like talking about the draft or school vouchers:
the details matter. i were king i would put many
people to death. and society would be better off
for it ... at least for the first 6mos. then it might
get out of control. french rev and all that.
\_ I think your last line is the real issue. What is a
true DP offense? Who decides? How can we be sure?
I'm perfectly ok with most folks getting life in
prison because there are too many times where a
death row inmate is found innocent, often after
years in prison. But I've got no problem putting
someone like Manson and numerous others where there
can be no doubt and no concept of rehabilitation on
the chair and frying them. And yes I agree the
chairs should work, procedures should be followed,
etc, but if it takes a few extra zots to off a
Charles Manson or he goes out suffering I'm not going
to shed any tears over it.
\_ And this is why I'm neither Pro- or Anti-DP: I
view it as a tool, and as such I want it to work
work reliably and well when needed, but I don't
want it applied to every situation (cf. Maslow,
hammer, nails). I'm not pro- or anti-screwdrivers,
either. --erikred |
| 2007/6/11 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46907 Activity:very high 57%like:46915 |
6/11 (Questionable study says) Death penalty deters homicide (AP story)
http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/132840.html
\_ Oh but this is so politically incorrect ......
\_ `The studies' conclusions drew a philosophical response from a
well-known liberal law professor and death penalty critic, Cass
Sunstein ...... "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are
skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate
consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the
death penalty."'
Mocan: "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he
said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the
death penalty [deters], What am I going to do, hide them?"
\_ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=928649
"We address this error by focusing on the subset of
homicides that have been defined statutorily as
capital-eligible to provide a more sensitive indicator of
the deterrent effects of the death penalty. We use a
public-use data archive based on police descriptions of
homicides from 1976-2003 to construct rates of potentially
death-eligible killings. We estimate that less than 25% of
total criminal homicides are eligible for the capital
sanction under the range of current state statutes. We find
no changes over time in the rate of these capital-eligible
homicides in death penalty states, despite fluctuations in
capital punishment over time. "
\_ The vast command of homicide law possessed by an average
potential murderer combined with these findings is sure to
debunk the study in OP's link! A more serious objection would
be to point out that no purely statistical study can determine
effect, period. -- ilyas |
| 2007/6/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:46902 Activity:nil |
6/10 More on the Libby case from a decidedly liberal econ prof:
http://www.csua.org/u/ivx
\- i dont understand why more people dont see the "procedural aspect"
to this libby case. i mean the burden on second guessing spectators
has to be pretty high given: 1. republican prosecutor 2. libby had
best defense money could buy 3. bush appointee judge. given that
he was still found guilty, unless you somehow think he was hurt
by the "friend of the sack of shit" letters from wolfowitz,
kissinger, bolton, etc it you have to say more than "i dont like
the outcome".
by the "friend of the sack of shit" briefs from wolfowitz,
kissinger, bolton, et al you have to say more than "i dont like
the outcome". anybody who argues "do we want our tax dollars
going to incarcaerate LIBBY" should just be beaten on the spot.
i am quite happy to have my tax dollars going to this end.
i am quite happy to have my tax dollars going to this end. much
more so than small scale potheads or notorious asslords, neither
of whom i have much natural affinity for.
of which i have much natural affinity for. |
| 2007/6/6-10 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46871 Activity:nil |
6/6 Substitute Teacher whose computer popped up porn spam in class and
was facing 40 years in jail (the stress caused her to have a
miscarriage) is having a new trial. I donated $20 to her defense
fund, she & her husband are deeply in debt now to pay legal bills.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/6/111020/3586
Typical bullshit puritan overreaction to PROTECT TEH CHILDREN!
You can get probation or a light sentence for rape and murder
but spend the rest of your life in jail if some kids see someone
screwing.
\_ Is this a hoax?
\_ No: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Amero
\_ Gee, which idiot jury convicted her?
\_ I think this is more of a zero-tolerance thing. I can't imagine
there are no other people who've been hit by porno pop-ups.
\_ which points out how stupid zero-tolerance things are. |
| 2007/6/5-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46861 Activity:kinda low |
6/5 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0605071libby1.html Mr. Libby takes one for the team ... too smart, and too loyal. \- this is disgusting. but on a mildly humorouss note ... "hi this is henry kissinger. i was secretary os state. scooter is ok. but let's get back to me. i am great. let me tell you some more about me." \_ There is a time when I thought blow the cover of an undercover agent is considered a threat to national security... Then again I am not a Republican. \_ Let me guess. You think Clinton got impeached for getting a BJ. \_ That didn't came into my mind when I posted it. IMHO, Libby should get executed for what he is willing to do to advance his party's political gain. And, now you mentioned, since we are willing to impeach someone for a BJ, then, may be we should impeach our current commander And, now you mentioned, since we are willing to impeach someone for a BJ, \_ I was correct. You're an idiot. then, may be we should impeach our current commander in chief for treason. AND/OR turn him over to International War Crime Tribunal for all sort of war crime he has commited. \_ He'll write a book. I think he was too dumb and too naive. He didn't have to talk to the prosecutors. He did so voluntarily and now is going to prison + $250k fine for trying to be a good samaritan, the fool. And when he does *not* get a GWB pardon I have a $1 million bet with someone on the motd I'm going to put away for my early retirement. \_ I will bet you, anonymous h0zer. Not $1M but I am happy to put real money on this. Contact me. -ausman \_ I've already got my $1M bet. If you can't play with the big boys, you can't play. \- fine, we can form a syndicate to bet again you. who are you. --psb \_ Uh huh. link:www.csua.org/u/iv2 |
| 2007/6/4-10 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46848 Activity:moderate |
6/4 Enron exec gets only 2yr jail time for screwing up so many people's
retirement:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/bs_nm/enron_sentencing_dc
\- the real punishment issue is they got to "club fed" type
prisons, not ass prisons. how many years in non-ass prison
would you be willing to do to avoid 1 yr or ass prison?
would you be willing to do to avoid 1 yr of ass prison?
\_ Just send him to Iraq and tell him to patrol the city
neighborhood for road side bomb...
\_ As much as I hate Enron, I hate the idea that repeated gang
rape is an acceptable punishment, especially one to joke
around about, even more.
\_ Quite aside from the gang rape and psych. trauma
there is the very high risk of infection.
\- who is joking? i think it is a very serious inequity
in "the system" along the lines of the crack vs cocaine
sentencing disparity, some weird pathologies in the
mandatory sentencing guidelines etc. is your ass/non-ass
prison multipler less than 5? or maybe we should phrase
it in terms of "how many months are you willing to trade
for change in marginal risk of hepatitis, hiv etc." are
you willing to add a year to your sentence to take the
risk of hiv/hep from 5% to .1%?
\_ The prison system is broken. The sentence itself should
be the punishment. Getting raped, getting a disease, or
getting abused in some other way by the other inmates is
not justice and should not be part of the system.
\_ Agreed, but the solution is not softer sentencing for
corporate pirates.
\- Again, eliminating the abuses in the prison
system is a separate issue than the sentencing
disparity. For example you can feel the penalties
for drugs are overly harsh *across the board* but
it is a separate issue to look at the (racial)
disparate impact of the sentencing guidelines.
A better example, also turning on race, concerns
capital punishment. Again being pro/con capital
pusiment is a separate issue from the fact that
black people killing white people have VASTLY more
likely to get the death penalty than black people
"only" killing another black person. [and of course
this is a spearate issue than quality of repre-
sentation etc. but of course money makes a difference
whether it is law or medicine].
\_ OJ Simpson vs. Scott Peterson.
\_ The plural of ancedote is not data.
\_ I agree with you on the sentencing guidelines for
things like crack vs. cocaine. It's all coke and
should be treated the same. But is it? Isn't
crack a much stronger version of the same basic
stuff? Shouldn't a more serious substance get a
more serious penalty? If not, then why treat
pot use as a decriminalised activity but send
coke users to jail? Some lines? No lines? Or
just one big line that treats all drug offenses
the same?
\_ Coke and crack are both Sched. II substances;
as such, sentencing for possession/dealing
should be the same. However, judges have a
tendency to view coke-heads as still socially
redeemable, whereas crackheads are considered
irredeemable, and so sentences tend to be
harsher for crackheads. This is not consistent
with the espoused purpose of establing Scheds.
to begin with.
\- often there are arguments like "crackheads
are more likely to commit other crimes"
as opposed to upstanding wall street
coke users, or suburban upper middle
class coke heads etc. but it seems like
you should only be able to convict people
for what they did rather than statistical
propensities ... like if the crack head
paid for the crack by stealing car stereos
you need to convict him of that rather than
just infer it from "no visible means of
support". on the flip side, you also have
to wonder about "hate crime" laws with
harsher pentalities, under the theory that
hate-fuelled beatings are worse than run-
of-the-mill beatings ... if a hate beating
averages in 50stiches rather than 25 stiches
surely there is a way to have the sentencing
reflect the "actual damage" and dispense
with the "thought crime" aspect. although
i acknowledge something like hate-graffitti
may be different from "<my gang> rules"
type graffiti ... but once it advances to
something like arson, i dunno if you really
have to consider the "hate" element so
much.
\_ The why is always important in crime.
For instance look at the difference
between a premeditated mob hit and
a crime of passion.
\- fair point. but some whys matter.
like premeditation. does it matter
whether the premediated mob hit was
for financial reaasons [like say
remove competition/turf war ...
fundamentally about money] or say
to prevent a witness from testifying.
but i think we agree sentencing is
complicated and hard to make a
determiistic function of n-variables.
like for white collar crime how do
you factor in the magnitude of the
harm [embezzing $50k, vs $10m in
some kind of securities fraud],
what should be criminal vs civil
penalties etc.
\_ Crack and coke are the same thing, one is
not inherently stronger than the other,
though the method they are used leads to
slightly differrent effects. They may
finally be eliminating the sentencing
disparity, btw:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n656/a04.html
\_ If the method of use of one leads to a
greater (or less socially acceptable)
effect then I'd claim it is "stronger".
\- so for say assault, there should be
different sentencing guidelines
based on whether you are a welter-
weight or heavyweight or a black-
belt? how about just focusing on
the actual damage. if somebody
embezzles $2000 and buys math books
vs. mexican drinking binge, should
they get differnent sentences?
\_ In the case of drug sentencing the
charges are related to possession
not your blood content. So they
have to look at the potential
damage of selling 2kg of crack vs.
2kg of coke. If the potential
damage is the same, then yes they
should be punished the same. If
the crack is going to do more harm
to the community than the coke then
it should be punished more harshly.
Does one actually have the
potential to do more harm than the
other? I don't know. But the
judges dealing with these things
seem to think so.
\- drunk driving in a yugo vs a
humvee are treated differently?
yes, if the humvee drink driver
kills somebody and the yugo
driver just dents a mailbox,
that should be treatement
that should be treated
differently but saything there
are schedule I and schedule II
cars for DUI, is kinda odd.
\_ cars aren't drugs. car
possession is not (yet) a
crime. for a car wreck we
punish the effect. for drug
possession we punish based on
potential effect.
\- in the case of drunk
driving you can go
after them without a
car wreck happening.
it's being in posession
of a car while driving
because that might lead
to a car wreck, a pot-
ential effect.
\_ And for that potential
effect, the punishment
is extremely high. It
presumes that "this is
not your first time
doing it, so we'll
throw the book at you" |
| 2007/6/4-10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46846 Activity:moderate |
6/3 Dirty Congressman Jefferson finally indicted.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PI5SRO1
\_ Good --scotsman
\_ Seconded. --erikred
\_ About time. Let's see some real jail time and a felony conviction
from this one.
\_ He's innocent I tell ya, just like DeLay and Libby! Selfless public
servants.
\_ Libby is going to jail for *not* leaking any secrets. He got
totally fucked over on some BS trumped up garbage charge and
sent to the wolves so *someone* could take the fall.
\_ Somehow I don't see "Free Scooter!" t-shirts being big
sellers.
\_ You fail to understand how delusional the Bushies have
become.
\_ You fail to have the facts at hand when posting. See
below for what Libby was convicted of and while you're
at it, compare what happened to Libby vs. Sandy "Stuffed
Shorts" who got probation and a trivial fine for
stealing and destroying national security documents
related to the Clinton administration's policies re:
Al Qaeda in the 90s. If Libby deserves jail then SB
deserves a treason charge with life or hanging on those
scales of justice.
\_ Thanks for making my case for me (btw, I think
SB got off too light as well, but that is tangential
to the Libby case).
\_ Your case was what exactly? A vague slam against
all "Bushies"? Whatever. DailyKOS awaits your
wisdom.
\_ Libby is really going to jail for obstructing justice. He
still doesn't understand that what he did was wrong, and
apparently neither do a number of his supporters.
\_ Libby obstructed justice how exactly? Specifically what he
got nailed for was this: the prosecution asked ~8 reporters
for their version of events and asked Libby as well. The
reporters gave varying versions, different time lines, etc
that didn't match each other. Libby didn't and in fact
could not have matched what the reporters said so he got
nailed for what exactly? Not matching all 8 reporters who
didn't match themselves? Give it a rest, the man is a
victim.
\_ "It's important that we expect and demand a lot from
people who put themselves in those positions," Walton
"Mr. Libby failed to meet that bar. For whatever
reason, he got off course." From the sentencing judge.
They outed a spy and then obstructed the investigation
into it. You are right that more than just Libby
should have paid, but he was the only case that
Fitzgerald felt was going to stick in a court of law.
\_ Yes, and? He's still going to prison for not having
the same story as 8 reporters who also had different
stories from each other. And let's not forget the
$250k fine on top of 30 months in prison. This is
not justice.
\- i am pretty sure he'll be "made whole"/taken care
for for his loyalty. obstruction of justice by
the powerful is a serious problem and deserves
serious penalties. the plea bargaining system
has some strage pathologies ... e.g. the guy
facing a serious charge with a lame public
defender vs. the guy who can pay his legal bills
though ill gotten gains or directors/officers
insurance or otherwise has deep resources or
something truly bizzare like the fbi/cia mole
cases where the death penalty was taken off
the table in return for cooperation or the
OLYMPIC BOMBER case where death penalty was
taken off the table because he hid a bunch
of explosives in the hills and would not
disclose where unless non-death ... those
are good candidates for waterboarding.
since we've decided to torture people, i think
there is an argument to be made that they are
"consenting" to torture ... i dont think these
people are "entitled" to this arrow in their
legal quiver. anyway, libby got the best of the
legal process. good lawyer, credible judge,
jury, prosecutor. if you want to claim he
was railroaded, the very very heavy burden is
on you to make the case.
\_ Again I ask: *exactly* what did he do that was
illegal, in plain English, please?
\- can you list you name so we can laugh
at you?
\_ The reason he was given such a harsh sentence
is because he used his power and authority in
an effort to pervert justice and he continues
to show no remorse for it (much like his
supporters). No one is above the law, not you,
and not even the White House. A harsh lesson
to have to learn, but one that I wish more
WH crooks would get the opportunity to have.
\_ With Bush's Pardon in his pocket, Scooter
will be above the law. Sucks, don't it?
\_ He isn't going to get a pardon.
\_ Well there is that. I guess he really
is above the law.
\_ Again I ask: *exactly* what did he do that was
illegal, in plain English, please?
\_ Obstruction of justice isn't clear enough
to you? He deliberately lied to the FBI and
\_ no. that's the legal charge. it
doesn't say what he *did*.
the Grand Jury in an attempt to derail the
investigation. According to Fitzgerald,
this actually had the intended effect of
making the Grand Jury unable to make the
case against the true perpetrators of the
crime of revealing a CIA agents identity.
According to the judge the evidence was
"overwhelming" and according to all 12
jurors, it was "beyond a reasonable doubt."
\_ I'll give you an example of "plain
English": Sandy Burglar went into the
national archives, stuffed a bunch of
Clinton era NSA documents related to
Al Qaeda in his socks and underwear,
hid them a few blocks away then returned
later, took them elsewhere and destroyed
them. Libby did what exactly?
\- i think sandy burger is a lamer and a
fool and you have to wonder "what was
he thinking" but i'll be happy to
see him burned at the stake IF the
CIA or NSA or somebody other than
a partisan player says he damaged
national security, which has they
took the trouble to say in the Plame
case. In fact I would be kinda
happy to see that. However, I'm open
to the possibility that what he
took out had no national security
importance [as you may not know,
the govt has often classifies a
lot of things en masse and will only
"lazily evaluate" if they should
not declassified. for example there
are documents that are essentualy
just strings of number from sensitive
simulations which are classified
[possible in the relating-to-nuke
classification, which is differnt
from the Secret, Top Secret etc one],
so just the fact that they were
classified isnt quite enough for a
air assessment. If Plame was say
a IT Manager or Food Services manager
at the CIA, even if it was strictly
by the letter not legal to disclose
her identity, I'd be more willing to
think this might have been something
unreasonable at the food of the tree,
but again, the issue is you dont get
to decide when to cooperate with the
FBI and when you cant.
\_ Sandy Burglar: it doesn't matter
what value the documents had. If
you or I had done it our lives
would have been destroyed over it.
And since he destroyed them we
*can't* know, since that is the
point of destroying them. We are
forced to assume they did have
value or he wouldn't have bothered.
As far as Libby goes since no one
here seems to actually know what
he is accused of, I'll tell you.
In plain English: Libby voluntarily
talked to the grand jury investi-
gating Plame's ID revealing. His
story didn't match ~8 reporters'
stories. Those 8 reporters'
versions of events and timelines
not only did not match Libby, they
did not match each other, and did
not match their own written notes
and did not match their previous
testimony when brought back and
questioned again on the same
topics. Libby's only crime was
trying to do the right thing. Now
here are two kickers for you on top
of everything else: Richard Arma-
tage was *known to the prosecutor*
on *day 1* to be the Plame leaker.
Before he ever talked to Libby,
the prosecutor *knew* who the
leaker was. His entire investiga-
tion was supposed to be about
finding the leaker, but slamming
Armatage wasn't politically useful.
He wanted Cheney, Rove and others
who we now know had *nothing* to
do with it. He couldn't get them
but he was able to get Libby on a
complete crap charge. And the
second kicker: Libby's lawyers
tried hard to get Plame's actual
official status clarified in court
but the judge agreed with the
prosecution that whether or not
she was in fact a "secret agent"
or not was not relevent to the
case! Wow. And then in the
sentencing phase, the judge then
allows the same prosecutor to
argue that Libby should get super
smashed for revealing a "secret
agent's identity" but never allowed
the defendant to examine that in
court or answer those charges. A
giant "fuck you" to Libby and any
sense of real Justice. *THAT* is
the 'plain English' version of
what happened to Scooter libby.
And now we've already started to
see other people refusing to
testify in front of various
congressional committees because
they're afraid they're get Libby'd.
Having one branch of government
literally afraid to *talk* to
another branch of government out of
fear of malicious prosecution is no
way to run a government.
\_ Malicious prosecution, huh...
Sigh. Aren't you guys the
"if they haven't done anything
wrong, they have nothing to
fear" crowd? Or is that just
for us laypeople?
\_ To actually believe all that BS
you have to believe that a
guy who indicted Democrats,
Al Qaeda and Republicans
suddently went nuts. Libby
lied and got caught. His lies
totally screwed up a federal
case (remember various
reporters went to jail to help
keep Libby's lies secret) and
damaged national security and
he paid the price. Get over it.
\_ What the above guy said: but let me dumb it
down a bit more: he lied under oath about
matters relevant to national security.
\_ Yes, nice. See my above example of
"plain English". Thanks.
\_ Rep. Henry Hyde (R-IL) "So for my friends who think that
perjury, lying and deceit are in some circumstances acceptable
and undeserving of punishment I respectfully disagree." [House
Judiciary Committee, 12/1/98].
Rep. John Mica (R-FL) "If you commit perjury or obstruct justice,
you will be held accountable. If you are a member of Congress or
president . . . you will be held accountable. Even if you . . .
do a thousand good deeds, you will be held accountable." [Orlando
Sentinel, 12/20/98]
Former House Majority Leader Rep. Dick Armey (R-TX) "But Mr.
Speaker, perjury before a grand jury is not personal and it is
not private. Obstruction of justice is not personal and it is
not private. Abuse of the power of the greatest office in the
world is not personal and it is not private." [ABC Special
Report, 12/19/98]
Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA) "Perjury and obstruction of justice
are serious offenses which must not be tolerated by anyone in
our society." [Washington Post, 2/12/99]
Senator Sam Brownback (R- KS) "Perjury and obstruction of justice
are crimes against the state. Perjury goes directly against the
truth-finding function of the judicial branch of government."
[Congressional Record, 2/12/99]
Oh yeah, that was lying about a BJ, obviously a much more serious
crime than outing a CIA agent. |
| 2007/5/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46652 Activity:nil |
5/15 AG Gonzales thinks "attempted" copyright infringement should be
a crime and that it should be easier to get wiretaps to figure
out if you are attempting to commit copyright infrigement:
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9719339-7.html |
| 2007/5/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46582 Activity:nil |
5/10 Apparently entrapment is hunky dorey if it catches terra-ists!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/nyregion/10informer.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
\_ Doesn't look like entrapment to me.
\_ Entrapment is generally "hunky dorey" is most contexts. It
is a very weak defense that is mostly used as a last resort
b/c nothing better is available. To argue entrapment is to
concede that not only did one do the crime but also that the
cops acted constitutionally under the 4th, 5th and 6th amend.
(at least wrt to the particular suspect).
Furthermore, entrapment is not a constitutional defense,
and the federal statute (applicable here) is limited. The
standard used in federal court is subjective predisposition
(see JACOBSON v. US, 503 US 540 (1992)), which is *very*
defendant unfriendly b/c it allows the prosecutor bring in
all sorts of bad character to show evidence that the suspect
was subjectively predisposed to commit the crime before the
cops approached him/her. In addition, some courts take the
\- yes, but it allows for the
"bitch set me up" defense!
\_ I suppose, but what is
the point of arguing
that one was setup, if
one will mostly likely
loose the argument?
view that the police don't even need reasonable suspicion
that crime is afoot before conducting a sting (see US v.
GRENDON, 18 F3d 955 (1st Cir. 1994) - opinion by BREYER).
Although in theory one can always argue that the police acts
were so egregious that the violated the 5th/14th amend. due
process rights of the suspect, it is hard to win under that
unless the cops basically did everything (e.g. in the drug
context, the cops need to do something like provide the
buyer, the seller and the drugs).
\_ But hey, maybe if these guys are real lucky they'll be able
to BRING THIS UP in a court of law! Oh woops, off to Gitmo
with you. |
| 2007/5/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46541 Activity:low |
5/6 Reiser case gets crazier:
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/05/reiser
\_ Wha? Reiser is friends with a serial murderer? |
| 2007/5/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:46540 Activity:high |
5/6 Mon Dieu, Sarkozy wins:
http://urltea.com/i89 (cnn.com)
\_ I told you CONSERVATISM is spreading throughout the world and
nothing is going to stop it! Privatization, pro-business, less
tax, less immigrants, tough on crime, less communism, less
social programs, & more self reliance!
\_ A surprise, I know. What do you think of the result?
\_ Freedom Fries! Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys! Acck! Phht! |
| 2007/4/22-25 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Military] UID:46409 Activity:nil |
4/21 the Gun debate will be settled in the SCOTUS
http://www.opinionjournal.com/weekend/hottopic/?id=110009971
\_ The Supreme Court will only decide on what they think the
comma means; they won't decide on whether it's a good idea or
not. -tom
\_ ^will^may^ - Review by the USSC is discretionary. The above
is also somewhat inaccurate b/c a split existed before the
D.C. Cir. weighed in - the 9th and 5th have had opposing
views for several years. Also the D.C. Cir.'s opinion only
address Congressional regulation not State regulation. It
is conceivable that different rights/rules apply (e.g. 7th
amend.) |
| 2007/4/20-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46384 Activity:nil |
4/20 Yee-haw! 25 murder-free years in 'Gun Town USA'
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288
\_ There are a cases in Africa where certain people with certain
genes are immune to AIDS/HIV infections. This example proves
that there is no correlation between HIV and infections!!!
PS. Sarcasm tone used above, in case you don't "get it"
\_ Wikipedia, which is arguably more accurate in the long run than
WND, on the same town:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia |
| 2007/4/16-18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:46322 Activity:nil |
4/16 Why are the VT shootings being described as "worst in US history"
by the media? This seems like useless hyperbole where none is needed,
and besides:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
\_ well, wikipedia says worst "civilian" shooting in U.S. history
\_ The TV news says it's the worst "school shooting" in US history. |
| 2007/4/16-19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Military] UID:46320 Activity:nil |
4/16 For emarkp: Extensive debunking of John Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime"
http://timlambert.org/guns/lott
\_ Hi troll! Sign your name. Oh, and just by chance, have you looked
for any response to Lambert, and weighed it against the paper? Or
did you just pick the first reference that fit your agenda? -emarkp
\_ Maybe we should do what Lott did, which was to create multiple
accounts in online forums to invent people to support his
ridiculous position. -tom
\_ More on Lott:
"In his published research analysis, John Lott has
claimed that a 1997 survey he conducted found that
concealed handguns deterred crime without being fired
an astoundingly high 98% of the time. That claim
allowed Lott to explain away the fact that extremely
few self-defense uses of handguns are ever
reported. But when scholars began questioning his
survey results, Lott began a series of evasions that
culminated in the claim that his computer had crashed
and he had "lost" all the data. The University of
Chicago, where Lott claims he conducted the study,
has no record of it being conducted so Lott began
claiming that he funded it himself (and kept no
records) and that he used students to make the survey
calls (though no students have been identified who
participated). Indeed, no records of the survey exist
at all. Lott is now facing serious questions about
whether he fabricated the entire survey - raising
serious questions about his ethics and credibility."
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=lott
\_ Wow, so a political group which opposes gun ownership
disagrees? Stunning. -emarkp
\_ So essentially, any document or study which doesn't
support your position, or comes from a group which
doesn't support your position, is inherently
fraudulent? Your job as a scientist in the Bush
Administration is secure!
\_ Sigh. No, I'm not arguing that. My point is that
rather than simply quoting mindlessly from the
proponent and critics is to read them both or search
for a third party. For instance, the National
Acadamy of Science looked into the issue, and while
they say they can't support the conlusion that "more
guns = less crime" they *can* conclude that "more
guns != more crime". Since I've never read the book,
nor was I claiming it was correct, I really don't
care much, except the "debunking" cited above is from
a "lecturer" of CS (particular graphics--and his Java
applet has bugs) whereas Lott has more experience
with statistics. Michelle Malkin has criticized Lott
as well, even though she agrees with him
ideologically. -emarkp
\_ Does that equal sign mean 'logical implication,'
'algebraic equality' or is it the equal sign they
use in structural equation models? -- ilyas |
| 2007/4/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46248 Activity:nil |
4/10 And the winner of the Half-Billion Swimming Contest is: Birkhead!
http://www.csua.org/u/ifr (Yahoo! News) |
| 2007/4/1-3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46171 Activity:kinda low |
4/1 David Hicks gets 9-month sentence in Australia through blatant
political deal to save John Howard's electoral bacon:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/31/AR2007033100976.html?nav=rss_print/asection
\_ Australia? Who? What? Not living there or being a citizen I
don't see why their internal politics matters to outsiders. If
they were having a coup or changed from a capitalist system to
a socialist one or something, sure, but whatever.
\_ You might want to read the article before you come off sounding
like an idiot. Oops, too late.
\_ It's the motd, it doesn't matter. It's Australia, it doesn't
matter. If it was important you would've told us why we
should take the time to read the article. Apparently no one
else read it or thought it was worth replying to so idiot I
may be but at least I didn't waste my time on your article.
\_ it's not my article, but you're an idiot.
\_ Echoing the previous poster, you are definitely an idiot.
The whole subtext of the article is a Cheney-crony
manipulating the Gitmo "courts" to produce a favorable
political outcome for the leader of Australia. If you
don't see how this relevant to the US, I really can't
help you.
\_ See? Now that was helpful and if the OP had posted
that I might have bothered reading it. Since the motd
just isn't that important, I don't take the time to
read every random link that no one else has bothered
to reply to. It is clear to me now that if I was not
an idiot I'd read every motd link and that would make
me smart! Thank you very much for pointing me in the
direction of smartness. Every trash link to a big boob
pic, lame youtube video, and random blog diatribe now
tops my get-smart-like-you reading list.
\_ you're an idiot not because you didn't read the
link, but because you commented on a link you
didn't read. idiot. |
| 2007/3/29-31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46138 Activity:moderate |
3/28 Good thing the GOP has leaders like Tom DeLay:
http://www.slate.com/id/2162672
\_ I assume this is a "Tom DeLay is evul!" article. Seriously, get
over the whole "our guys are angels, your guys are the devil" thing.
You've got land scammers, bribe takers, nation security document
destroyers and various other assorted and sundry felons walking
around free and in power in the majority party. Few things are
uglier than hypocrites.
\_ Pot, kettle, black. Your "defence" for Tom DeLay's hatred and
\_ Pot, Bongwater, Hash. Your "defence" for Tom DeLay's hatred and
corruption is that Democrats do it too? I am actually an
independent and despise (and actually do something about,
which is probably more than you can say) corruption in
both parties. You "assume"? You can't even be bothered to
read the article, but you feel qualified to offer up your
opinion on it? On second thought, this is actually pretty
funny and emblematic of why the GOP is in such bad shape.
\_ can we please stop the use of "Pot, kettle, black"? It's
\_ I don't defend Delay at all. I point out hypocrisy. If
DeLay is evuul, so be it, but to turn a blind eye to (D)
corruption or write it all off as 'not as bad' or to say
'charges haven't been filed so no problemo!' is painfully
and ridiculously intellectually dishonest. And no, I can't
be bothered to read the article. Tell me, was I wrong about
what was in it?
\_ You "pointed out hypocrisy" because I didn't condemn
both Democrats and Republicans in the same motd entry?
You are the hypocrite, padawan.
\_ can we please stop the use of "Pot, Bongwater, Hash"? It's
hackneyed, awkward, and stupid. -tom
\_ Pot, kettle, black.
\_ Pot, Bongwater, Hash.
\_ Pot, Bongwater, Hash.
\_ Pot, Bongwater, Hash.
\_ See, you're misunderstanding the post. The pp didn't say he
was defending DeLay. He said "stop attacking everyone on the
right while ignoring the corruption on the left". Expose the
problems on the left as well. -emarkp
\_ Name a corruption problem on the left. "Voter fraud"
will lose you -2 troll points.
\_ First of all, I have to ask, do you really thing there's
no corruption on the left. Secondly, look up "William
Jefferson"--the guy caught with $90K in his fridge.
-emarkp
\_ 1. That guy was not a major leader of his party.
\_ so what?
2. There is always corruption, but there are levels.
\_ *cough* No! There are no levels! Your
office holders are corrupt or they're not. If
they are corrupt they are undeserving of your
support and should get kicked out and
prosecuted. No level of corruption is ok.
\_ You obviously have not thought about this
too hard. Is Halliburton getting no bid
contracts an example of corruption or not?
How about companies giving big contributions
to office holders and then lobbying them
after they win office. Both of these are
legal, but borderline cases of corruption.
And not everyone is going to agree with
your black and white definition of what
corruption is, so you should stop trying
to force your vision of it on the world,
to force your vision of it on the motd,
and accept that there are going to be
grey areas in the real world.
The modern republican leadership has raised
the level of corruption to where something
like $90K is pocket change. William Jefferson
is more like Cunningham, not like Delay.
\_ Stuffing raw hard cash in your fridge is the
most base form of corruption possible. Even
if your 'relativist corruption' view point was
valid, it doesn't seem to bother you at all.
\_ So you're limiting corruption t leadership? Okay,
then refer beck to the pp about Harry Reid and his
shady land deals. Oh, and I agree that William
Jefferson is more like Cunningham. So why is
Cunningham in jail and Jefferson isn't? -emarkp
\_ Um, time? AFAIK, Jefferson has not been
charged with anything yet. He maintains his
innocence and was recently reelected. Now, I
personally would love to see him resign both
for the horrible appearance of impropriety, and
for the fact that his still being in the House
serves as a football for people like you who
want to say "Democrats do it too!" as cover for
the corrupt party you support. But for now,
he is a duly elected representative of the
people of his district. --scotsman
\_ The fact that months have gone by with no
prosecution or charges while some shmuck
like Libby is facing prison time for nothing
is insane and the root of the problem. His
own party has not only not disowned him but
put him on the DHS committee. Sure makes me
feel so much safer knowing he's only a few
bucks away from screwing over the entire
nations security to the best of his ability.
\_ He asked to be on the DHS committee. He
has not been seated yet. He may never
be. So just chill yourself.
\_ Someone had evidence on Cunningham, presented
such in court, and had him arrested; Jefferson
has been accused, and evidence has been alleged
but neither evidence nor charges have been
forthcoming. This is why C is in jail and J is
not. I agree that "cold hard cash" in his
fridge is fishy, but if he committed a crime,
charge him. --erikred
\_ Fishy? It's only fishy? If it was a (R)
you'd be calling for his political death
along with the rest of the left. *shakes
head* at thought of $90 in the fridge being
merely 'fishy'.
\_ Forgot to mention, why the silence about
Harry Reid's shady land deals? -emarkp
\_ Is there an indictment? Is there
anything beyond allegations? Are you
going to bring up the boxing thing
again? How 'bout Vince Foster again?
\- i shot vince foster, just to watch
him die. --wjc@organ.org
\_ Caught with hand in cookie jar. If
he was a (R) you'd be calling him
the worst sort of criminal. Getting
lawerly is the last sign of a lost
cause.
\_ Cookie Jar? Where? Would you
like to cite evidence, an
investigation, anything?
\_ So why is congress in uproar about AG when
they haven't said word one or done anything
to investigate WJ? They can police their
own members. -emarkp
\_ Politics and priorities, duh.
\_ As noted by above response, for the same
reason that RDC wasn't censured and
ejected when the GOP ran Congress. I will
certainly grant you that. But remember
that uproar over the AG need not preclude
investigation of WJ; these things are not
mutually exclusive as though there were
limited resources to investigate ethical
violations. A lack of political will to
pursue WJ until the charges are leveled
has nothing to do with the investigation
of whether the AG fired US Atys in order
to punish them for not embarassing the
opposition party. --erikred
\_ The USAGs can be fired for any reason
at all. They are politically
appointed positions. How you can say
their firing is worse than stuffing
your fridge with hot cash is beyond
my ability to understand. $90k in
your fridge is just fishy, though.
WJ is not defensible yet you defend
it. The USAG firing were handled
poorly but are in no way illegal, yet
you find this outrageous.
\_ Actually, what I find outrageous is
the idea that the Admin was so
blatant about firing these people
for not launching fruitless and
embarassing investigations of its
political rivals. I find partisan
use of the US Atys as your own
Gestapo utterly outrageous, but
I find the lack of circumspection
and careful planning insulting.
What they're saying is, we'll do
what we like, and you'll shut up
and take it. At least the Reagan
White House went through the
motions; these guys are strictly
amateurs. As for WJ, unlike you,
my capacity for outrage is not
limited to the opp. party; if he's
done wrong here, he's a scumbag,
and he should be censured. I've
got no problem with that. But at
least show me some proof. Also,
am I still talking to emarkp or
just to some AC? --erikred
\_ That swath of entries reeks of
reiffin. --scotsman
\_ Since the Democrats have been out of power in Washington
for so long, there is probably not a lot at the national
level to expose. I have (literally) campaigned for more
oversight at the local level, where the politicians are
all Democrats. Believe me, there is plenty of Democratic
machine corruption in San Francisco, but at least
Newsome is doing someting about it finally.
Newsom is doing someting about it finally.
\_ Newsom is the benefactor of the SF political machine.
He was Willie Brown's boy. I don't live in SF though so
I'm curious what he is doing to cut his own support?
\_ No, he is not really Willie's boy. Willie endorsed
him, but Gavin's "base" is in the Marina/Pac Heights
crowd, where Willie's was in Hunter's Point and
the Projects and the City's municipal unions. Newsom
fired the old corrupt Police Chief and Fire Chief
fired the old corrupt Police of Chief and Fire Chief
and replaced them with reasonably competent
technocrats, has upended the planning dept and
indicted a number of corrupt building inspectors,
and cleaned out the whole rat's nest of corruption
that surrounded placement in public housing.
I am sure there is more that I am unware of. |
| 2007/3/27-29 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:46112 Activity:nil |
3/26 Bush's kangaroo court gets its first "conviction":
http://www.csua.org/u/ibj (SF Gate)
\_ "Under the evolving rules of the Military Commissions Act
passed by Congress in September..." i.e. after five years
we're still making it up as we go along.
"civilian criminal defense lawyer Joshua Dratel was barred
from participating because he refused to promise to adhere
to procedural rules that have yet to be defined.
Kohlmann also declined to approve a second civilian lawyer,
Rebecca Snyder, on the grounds that commission rules allow
civilians only if their representation incurs no expense to
the U.S. government. Snyder is a Pentagon employee." Awesome. |
| 2007/3/21-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:46046 Activity:nil |
3/21 Has anyone seen a transcript of the Gore hearing today? I checked
on cspan, cnn, google, epw.senate.gov, and a few other places. I can
find video but not text. Video is a no-go. Thanks.
\_ I'm hunting for Boxer's smackdown of Inhofe. Whether or not he's
a nutjob (and boy is he), he's one bitter motherfucker.
link:preview.tinyurl.com/yuz478 (thinkprogress.org)
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/flvplayer.swf?file=http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/flv/2007/03/goreinhofe.320.240.flv
\_ Gore sure is a hypocrite, but it is nice to see Boxer find
her backbone.
\- I am not a big fan of ALGOR, I certainly argued with a
fair number of knee jerk liberal aquaintances that he is
a hypocrite when it comes to his personal energy use and the
"i pay my way out of it" excuses nothing, but I believe that
issue has no place in the "senate environment cmte hearings
on global climate change". on a crossfire type talk show
you can bring up stuff like this, or william bennett being
a gambling addict, or ted kennedy being a hypocrite and
murderer, but it's not approproate here. although i dont
know how to have shut him down except another republican
saying something (and they never do .. witness TEED "the
hulk" STEVENS). on the other hand, maybe everytime
dick "i had other plans" cheney opens his mouth about iraq
we should call him on his elaborate moves to avoid war
service. but some of te mediocrities like TEED STEVENS
and INHOFE being in the senate is just unreal. it speaks
to the power of "reptilian intelligence" and low cunning. |
| 2007/3/20-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:46035 Activity:nil |
3/20 Valorie Plame's oral testimony last week contradicts her oral testimony
before the Senate Intelligence Committee:
http://www.csua.org/u/ia1 (National Review)
\_ awful, slanted article.
\_ awful, stupid comment
\_ awful, stupid comment
\_ Thanks for confirming that Plame was a covert CIA agent when
Cheney and Libby outed her. Even the National Review admits it. |
| 2007/3/17-20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:46004 Activity:moderate |
3/16 So who do you believe, Plame and the CIA or Novak and Cheney?
Let's put to rest the canard that Plame was not undercover when
Novak published her identity:
http://www.csua.org/u/i9g
\_ I automatically begin to ignore any admin official who points out
'plame was in the society papers' and 'everyone knew what she
looks like'. The point of Plame's 'cover' was that she out
and about and managing business entities in other countries
that needed a figurehead for a CIA front business. The CIA
spends years building up this business to provide cover for
their other activities. If you blow away the cover of the
people running it, all of that years of effort is down the
drain, and any foreign nationals involved with it are probably
on a hit list somewhere now. Thanks Cheney. If he had
just calmed down and realized no one analyzes NYTimes editorials
as much as he does, none of this would have happened.
\_ Trust No One. -fmulder
\_ Of course, this link only shows that she claims she was covert.
\- can you imagine if the dems had outed her and started claiming
"she wasnt really covert". you all know the repply would be
"oh the treasonous dems now are supposed to decide who is
covert and who isnt? see we told you they were soft on defense
and wont support out intelligence profressionals dedicating
their lives for the country. the democrats are going to get
your children killed in this age of brown terror."
\_ http://tinyurl.com/369ert (crooksandliars.com)
Clear logic on why she was covert
\_ Of course that clear logic points right back to her own
statements.
\_ And the CIA's statements. Whose job it is to know this
stuff. |
| 2007/3/15-20 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45986 Activity:nil 88%like:45980 |
3/15 I repeat, Dems are pussies
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqcoz7 (thehill.com)
\_ You are right, they should start a war to prove how manly they are.
\_ Yeah that didn't happen August 1964.
\_ No, I think debating would be fine.
\_ I love Colbert, but he can be murder on an unprepared politician
no matter how sympathetic you may be toward them.
\- the "cocaine and hookers" interview was great.
\_ Agreed. Too bad the humor was lost on so many. Btw, Colbert's
rebuttal to his guest's critics was also great. |
| 2007/3/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45928 Activity:nil |
3/11 Reiser to stand trial for murder:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72931-0.html?tw=wn_index_7
\_ No surprise. Have you seen the evidence against him? My favorite
was finding her blood in his car and house and the front seat of
his car is still inexplicably missing. |
| 2007/3/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45886 Activity:high |
3/6 "Scooter" Libby: Guilty.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cia_leak_trial
\_ Bush will pardon him.
\_ Want to make a bet?
\_ Tradesports has "pardon Libby" trading at only 20%, so you
might be right...
\_ Probably, but not until after the Nov 2008 elections.
\_ I don't think he'll do it at all.
\_ No pardon, but: "You'll be the next Ollie North!"
\- I am not going to bet on it since it might be my cynicism
speaking but i think Bush will pardon him if it is not
a moot issue before he leaves office. --psb
\- somewhat ironically: Scooter Libby was one of
pigdog Marc Rich's lawyers. at 5:1, i'd take the
libby gets a pardon bet, assuming it is not a
moot question by the time the 2008 election is over. |
| 2007/2/28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45838 Activity:high |
2/28 Quick quiz: Which kills more Americans?
A) Insurgents in Iraq attacking US soldiers
B) Illegal Aliens in the US committing murder
C) Wankers on the motd and other media sources creating overtly
slanted, self-serving shill quizzes to make their points using
dishonest and bad rhetorical techniques.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=737771
\_ It depends on what your definition of "more" is.
We've had this discussion before. You're very clearly
an idiot.
\_ Our laws governing automotive safety are as every bit as
retarded as our foreign policy in the Middle East. Both
need our attention and some solution. What makes Iraq
particularly important is that it's putting an enormous
strain on our resources (economically and militarily).
\_ You're right, if we moved every single soldier from Iraq,
Japan, Korea, Germany and Cuba to the Mexican border,
we might stop all illegal immigration. Kill.
\_ That wasn't something I was suggesting. Try again. -op
\_ It's about a sensical as your quiz. -!pp
\_ Or not. -op
\_ Hey! Thanks to the asshole who chnaged my post. choice B) is
supposed to be Illegal Aliens committing murder.
\_ I like how when lefties here don't like facts, they hide them. |
| 2007/2/23-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45810 Activity:nil |
2/23 UCD Law Review Symposium on 4th Amend. Search & Seizure law:
http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=8048
http://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/2007symposium
\_ If anybody here has EBOLA, please go to this and lick JOHN YOO. |
| 2007/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45809 Activity:nil |
2/23 http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=8048 |
| 2007/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45803 Activity:nil |
2/23 http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=8048 Event Focuses on Surveillance, Wiretapping, Terrorism February 21, 2007 John Yoo -- who spearheaded the Bush administration's legal response to the 2001 terrorist attacks -- and other constitutional scholars will debate the National Security Agency's surveillance program, warrantless phone wiretapping and the war on terror at UC Davis March 9. The event, titled "Katz v. U.S: 40 Years Later -- From Warrantless Wiretaps to the War on Terror," will focus on how the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark "search and seizure" decision in Katz applies in a modern age of global terrorism. The UC Davis Law Review and the School of Law will host the free, public event. The program runs from 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. in the Wilkins Moot Court Room of King Hall on the UC Davis campus. "The issue of warrantless wiretaps and personal privacy has resurfaced from under the current NSA surveillance program," said David Richardson, editor-in-chief of the law review. "This symposium will allow some of the greatest legal minds in the country to discuss both sides of this controversy." Jennifer Chacon, a UC Davis professor of law and faculty adviser to the event, said, "Growing concerns over crime and terrorism in the United States have sparked a national conversation about the trade-offs between individual privacy and security." "Read against a modern backdrop," she added, "the case of Katz v. United States provides an ideal framework for discussing privacy expectations, effective law enforcement and anti-terrorism strategies." In Katz, the court ruled that the Fourth Amendment protects "people, not places" and provides protection of a "reasonable expectation of privacy," effectively curtailing the use of warrantless wiretaps by law enforcement agencies. John Yoo, now a UC Berkeley law professor, and Glenn Sulmasy of the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, will co-present a paper questioning the viability of Katz in the war on terror in a session at 2:45 p.m. Yoo served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Counsel of the U.S. Department of Justice from 2001 to 2003. Sessions are as follows: "Katz in Context: Privacy, Policing Homosexuality and Enforcing Social Norms," 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.; "Katz: Rights and Remedies," 12:45 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.; "Katz in the Age of International Crime and Terrorism," 2:45 p.m. to 4:15 p.m.; and closing remarks, 4:15 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. Celebrating its 40th anniversary, the law review ranks in the top 50 most cited legal periodicals in the United States. Each year it hosts a symposium on current legal topics. |
| 2006/11/8-9 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45269 Activity:kinda low |
11/8 Hah. Dems win and Rummy steps down. Suddenly all those people who felt
guilty about voting Dem feel a whoooooole lot better.
\_ Watch those Democrats implode!
\_ I just realized Rummy was also Secretary of Defence when he was in
his forties.
\_ I think Rummy has been both the youngest and oldest sec
of defense. |
| 2006/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45245 Activity:kinda low |
11/7 What party are they counting Joe Lieberman as?
\_ (I - Running for Secretary of Defense)
\_ yeah, and he /says/ he will caucus with Dems for Senate majority
\- and then he added "unless they dont honor my seniority
perqs" ... which means that asshole is basically saying
"if you try to punish me, i will punish you".
\_ Even the Dems aren't that stupid. They will give Joe
anything he wants so that the Dems can be in control.
\_ I hate him, i guess that makes me anti-sematic.
\_ And I hate him too, which makes me a self-hating Jew. |
| 2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45178 Activity:low |
11/6 On the timing of the Saddam verdict. Hmm ... what to think?
"The idea's preposterous. This is one of these tinfoil hat sort of
things." -WH press sec Snow
- http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1781719.htm
"Only the naive believe it's a coincidence."
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1940534,00.html
\_ What to think? Think for yourself.
\_ Its all part of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, you know the
one that is run by the Bush BrownShirts and is responsible
for the "hundreds" of warcrimes against dissidents across
the country. The Cabal will do anything to keep itself in
power. We are just cattle to them. They are preping us for
colonization. Trust No One. -fmulder
\- i really do think the Cockroach Republicans are only limited
by imagination and are not at all ethics. now if some "crypto-
anarchist" would get a job at diebold and put in a virus to
cause mass failure on election day, instead of cracking DMA
technology, that would be interesting. you have to wonder
what the aftermath would look like if there simply was no
result to a large fraction of the elections in the country.
[i think this is a really tricky area to come up with remedies.
it's one when when basically the election is solid with a few
one off problems, but mass problems would be unprecidented].
\_ yes all corruption is republican. democrats are all squeaky
clean and golden. you are brilliant. your solution to your
false sense of republican-only corruption is voter machine
anarchy. great. all that will happen is setting a new date
and doing them on paper followed by lawsuits about how the
ballot format disenfranchised stupid people.
\- i didnt say the democrats were clean. i did say the new
breed of cockroach republicans have charted new terrain
in corruption and sleaze. sure it's possible some Dems
have it in them, but until they do it, it's a thought
crime. here i include things like inter-census
\_ $90k in your fridge isn't a thought crime. and
he's still in office and has his committe position
too, btw.
gerrymandering, signing statements, something like the
\_ gerrymandering is a cooperative two party effort.
cheney energy tast force is vastly more secretive than
the hillary health care one. i thought Billhary had plenty
\_ secrets are not corruption nor a sign of it in and
of themselves.
of sleazy with filegate and travelgate and such or
rostenkowsky stealing postage stamps but delay, brownie,
are all taking it to a new level. this is a far cry from
\_ not really. same old, same old. i see no real
difference. they just have different sub-
specialties of corruption and an equal share of
the generic stuff.
the part of people like warren rudman, for example ... or
even alan simpson or o hatch. at least mccain is
apologetic over the keating five episode.
\_ mccain is a scum bag. i dont want his apology.
i want his head on a pike with all the rest of
the corrupt scum bags in DC. his apology has
no value. apologise for a joke gone bad? sure.
apologise for criminal activity? sorry, pal, try
prison instead.
\_ So McCain gets the death sentence for bribery
but Cheney gets a pass for colluding to offer
no-competition contracts to Halliburton? If it's
death for the goose, it's at least prison for the
gander.
\_ Pike em all but I'd settle for prison. And
I do mean *all* regardless of party. The
Congress would be mighty close to empty if
we really took corruption seriously.
\_ Agreed. --erikred
\- if you think mccain and cheney are
comparable, i dont think we can
really have a conversation [speaking
personally]. mccain has done some
fucked up things [agan keating 5],
but he's also done some thing waaaaay
beyond almost all others and they are
things you cant make up or posture.
i mean not only was he tortured but
was super connected and could have
gotten himself out of it. he adopted
child from bangladesh ... that probably
wasnt motived by it being good press,
his son is in the marines etc.
\_ So do you guys believe that the
politicians presently in power are
somehow born bad, and we just need
to replace them with Good(TM) people?
This makes no sense to me. The problem
is not that we happen to have bad
people in Washington, but rather
that we have a culture in Washington
that brings out the worst in people.
I have no idea how to fix this culture,
and I'm not convinced it will ever
be fixed, but I'm positive that just
changing the face of the corruption
won't do it.
\_ I can't speak for pp, but I don't
think they're all bad people. I think
we have a system in place now that
encourages corruption and moral
ambiguity (i.e., a disincentive to
avoid conflicts interest). There are
tools that could be used to fix this
(or at least make it unattractive),
but there's a culture of back-
scratching and mutual-benefit cover-
ups that makes real reform unlikely.
Campaing finance reform would be an
excellent step in the right direction
but a non-partisan, independent body
to investigate corruption might be a
better idea. The problem is that even
a "Grand Inquisitor" office is
vulnerable to corruption and
political stacking, and so the entire
cycle keeps rolling. --erikred
\_ I don't know. My current working
theory is that, for the most part,
only power-hungry megalomaniacs
are willing to go into politics.
Normal honest people would quit
before they ever got to even the
state level.
\_ I believe that line about power
corrupting and absolute power, etc.
Term limits and none of this merry-
go-round stuff to a different
district stuff. Serve your time as
a *public service* and get the hell
out. It sickens me everytime some
senator retires after 6+ terms in
office and they have him voting from
his death bed wheeled into the
chamber.
\_ Non-event. The media would bluster about it for a week or
so, until some juicy sex scandal popped up. Most people
would just say let's do it over w/ paper ballots and the
country would go about its business. I'm all for this plan
b/c it would surely return us to paper ballots and delayed
election results. Delayed results means the media would
have nearly nothing to pontificate about and we would have
to be subjected to endless drivel about red-blue state
"seismic" shifts on election day. |
| 2006/11/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:45112 Activity:nil |
11/02 http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=110 shows that medicare is 19% of "mandatory" federal spending. It also lists "health" as being another 13% of off budget spending. What does this consist of ? \_ VA dept? |
| 2006/10/27-30 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45010 Activity:kinda low |
10/17 Neocolonialists take note, even in Chile they go after torturers:
http://www.csua.org/u/hbf
\_ We do not torture.
\_ In Soviet Russia, ...... never mind.
\_ The shitbag had it coming. Fantastic, thx for the link. -John
\_ i am a bit confused on what is your point. If anything,
Pinochet is another example of the failure of US policy of
installing puppet governments world wide. It is hard to imagine
why Pinochet get axed for what he did, while Kissinger gets
Nobel Peace price for it?
\_ What's confusing about my point? Pinochet is a murdering
shitbag thug. Like Stroessner was, like Hussein, like
any number of other murdering shitbag thugs. I was not
referring to Kissinger. Are you implying that being
installed by a US-sponsored coup makes Pinochet any less of
a reprehensible turd? -John
\_ I'm sure all the neocolonialists on the motd have taken note.
Thanks for the link. --neocol |
| 2006/10/17-18 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44849 Activity:nil |
10/17 http://csua.org/u/h8f (washingtonpost.com) Ken Lay gets the last laugh: By dying with pending appeals, his convictions are vacated and all litigants will need to sue the estate via civil action |
| 2006/10/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44825 Activity:nil |
10/15 Tell me the difference in power and ability and
importance of the Israeli Prime Minister and the
Israeli President. thanks
\_ The Israeli President is mostly a figure head position. The real
power belongs to their Prime Minister. Why do you ask?
\_ THE JOOOOOS!!!!!111one have ALL the power, what are you talking
about?!
\_ news says he's about to be charged wtith multiple rape counts
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6054138.stm |
| 2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44763 Activity:nil |
10/11 http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/11/0142216&from=rss Hans Reiser arrested on suspicion of murder :-(((. --phr \_ At least slashdot got the really important part of this story right up there: "While the disappearance (and possible murder) of his wife is tragic, Linux users will wonder where this will leave Reiser 4. If Reiser is found guilty, will Novell or IBM pick up the pieces and finish up Reiser 4 for inclusion in the kernel or is this the end of the Reiser filesystem project? Will there be any future for the Reiser filesystem, and if Hans is found guilty and the project is continued, will the project be renamed to avoid notoriety?" Because gosh too bad about that dead chick and all, but who is going to finish 4.0? \_ "News for nerds. Stuff that matters." \_ You're right. Because a person is dead we can't discuss anything else about the incident. Thanks for the correction. \_ It was crass and unnecessary. You're welcome. \_ The references section of the wikipedia article on Hans Reiser has more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser \_ Goes a long way towards explaining why ReiserFS is a steaming pile. |
| 2006/10/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44702 Activity:high |
10/5 Ok, found the Michelle Malkin video youtube banned.
http://hotair.cachefly.net/media.michellemalkin.com/firsttheycame0545.wmv
Someone tell me why this got banned.
\_ You realize her video "first they came" is available on youtube,
right? Uploaded Feb. 2006. Not by her, granted, but still, it's
not like this isn't on youtube or is in any way non-trivial to find.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wEgoUJqnzxo
\_ Because she is ugly.
\_ No she's not.
\_ Ok, thanks. So there's no reason to have banned the Malkin video.
That's what I thought.
\_ Actually, that's not true. Here's YouTube's Terms of Use on
what submitters agree they will not do:
"(ii) publish falsehoods or misrepresentations that could
damage YouTube or any third party;
(iii) submit material that is unlawful, obscene, defamatory,
libelous, threatening, pornographic, harassing, hateful,
racially or ethnically offensive, or encourages conduct that
would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil
liability, violate any law, or is otherwise inappropriate;
(iv) post advertisements or solicitations of business"
Ignoring the first two, the video is clearly an advertisement
for Michelle Malkin's website. Now, if the submitter had left
off the last bit of the video, the other two sections might
have come into play, but submitter didn't, so they don't.
\_ So all the OTHER videos that show a website should be
removed as well?
\_ If it was just that then why didn't they tell her that
instead of sending her a generic note and ignoring her
attempts to find out which policy she violated? It seems
very simple to tell someone they violated the advertising
clause so they can fix it and continue being a user in good
standing. Banning someone without telling them which of
many policies they violated is, at best, unfair and
unprofessional. And as the above says are they removing
all videos that violate the advertising clause? I think
not. Sorry, not buying it.
\_ I salute your idealism but goddamn Michelle Malkin
is an evil troll with an amazing command of rhetoric
who needs to be destroyed.
\_ It's likely that not all videos that violate the ad
clause are being flagged as inappropriate by users.
MM is a high profile nutjob^H^H^H^Hperson, and as such
is more likely to get scrutinized (and ratted out).
As for professionalism and such, sure, I'll grant that
the organization should answer her requests for more
info. And (now watch carefully, this is where the magic
happens) as for professionalism, MM should stop being a
hatemongering harpy and should try to construct useful
and logical arguments that don't begin and end with
omigodThey'reAllEvil!
\_ Did you see the video that got banned? What is
wrong with it? Where is the evil? And if Malkin
or anyone else wants to use their free service she
should be able to. If not then they should add
something to the terms of service that would exclude
her kind of videos without targetting her personally
and then enforce that policy across the board. Policy
exists to enforce rules equally so people's personal
opinion doesn't factor in to enforcement. I'm sure
you can agree that would be a good thing.
\_ A good thing? Yes. But I think it's pretty clear
that terms of use like those on youtube are written
in part to cover the asses of the owners when they
choose to selectively censor. It's the private
sector equivalent of laws that everyone is
in violation of that give cops the legal cover
to harass whoever they want. I've personally
dealt with this with Cafe Press. Fucking assholes.
\_ Man, I couldn't agree more. Fucking Rupert
Murdock!
\_ According to the person who posted the Terms of
Use, she did. Either way, there are hundreds of
people who post their crap on ebay, myspace, or
youtube who gets their stuff banned and all they
youtube who get their stuff banned and all they
get is nothing more than a form
letter^H^H^H^H^H^Hemail. I'm sure some of them
are quite egregious while others are just
straddling the line. But it doesn't matter. These
companies cater to thousands of free -loaders and
they don't have time to put with the childish
whining of Malkin orto whipe her ass. She should
whining of Malkin or to wipe her ass. She should
be thankful that she was allowed to host her
other videos at no cost.
\_ It isn't costing them anything. She and all
the rest of the users are the youtube product.
She is providing content, not getting a free
ride. If she got banned she has the right to
question it. It isn't childing whining. If
youtube has an editorial policy I'm totally
ok with that *if* they are honest about it,
which they're not. And no, it isn't ok because
they do it to other people, too. And no I
don't think putting your URL for 3 seconds at
the end of a 3 minute video is advertising,
especially in the case of a public figure like
Malkin. Let's be honest and stop ignoring the
elephant: she got banned because she's a
conservative.
\_ It does cost youtube something. Youtube has
a telecom bill to pay. They also need to pay
\_ A core cost their core business
model. Pft.
\_ And if you have a bandwidth
quota, you want to make sure
that your link is being used
by things that conform to
your business model.
for lawyers and insurance in case some ass
fucker goes crazy on them for something
offensive that was posted on youtube. Being
\_ All corporations have lawyers on
retainer. Pft.
\_ And attracting hate mail from
crazy terrorists is probably
something their lawyers told
them not to do. The moment
you have another incident like
the Danish cartoon one, you're
going to be paying huge legal
fees.
a private entity, youtube also has the right
to decide which "products", as you call them,
to put out or reject for whatever reasons
they want. Yes, she has the right to question
\_ Her content and that of many others
is not the direct product. It is
what attracts people to the site so
they can sell ads or do whatever
with their customer database. Of
course they have the right to reject
whatever they want. No one has ever
said otherwise. Red herring.
\_ And the yanking of her video
seems to be generating even
more traffic than her video
did by herself. You're asking
why MM's video got yanked and
I'm saying they based it on
their terms of use. You think
otherwise and I'm saying it
doesn't matter because they
can decide however they want
what's appropriate or not and
they don't have to explain in
Moby Dick form to every reject
why X got yanked.
what youtube did but youtube also has the
right to send her a form letter and tell
her to screw off. Personally, if I was
\_ They do, yes. No dispute there.
Their reason for doing so in this
case is her politics, not any
bogus violation of policy. That is
the issue. Their unprofessionalism
and cowardice is a distinct issue.
\_ Unprofessionalism? Okay, think
about it this way. How many
videos do you think has to be
rejected every day? How many
people do you think youtube
has to approve or reject videos?
How much time do you think it
would take for one of these
guys to wipe someone's ass
everytime their video gets
rejected? You do the math. And
if you're going to be talking
about unprofessionalism, why
not take a look at Malkin
herself. What is her profession?
Last time I checked, nutjob
wasn't a profession.
running a site like youtube, I would find
MM's "products" devaluing to my site. I also
\_ You'd be wrong. She attracts
visitors which is your core product.
\_ Already made my point before.
Yanking an MM video == more
traffic.
wouldn't have my staff put up with MM's
whining because if they had to wipe every
reject's ass the way you and MM are
suggesting, they wouldn't have time for more
productive things like wiping their own ass.
\_ If your company can't afford a form
letter for each of the half dozen
possible policy violations and send
the correct one then your company
is dead anyway. There's this silly
thing called "customer service" that
actually matters in the real world.
\_ which is of course why every
company is outsourcing it to
people in Bangalore who don't
speak English. -tom
\_ And getting crushed in the CS
satisfaction ratings. Which
is why the smart places are
bringing CS back to the US. |
| 2006/10/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44674 Activity:kinda low |
10/4 According to Drudge, the Foley intern was 18 at the time. If true,
it still makes him a sicko but non-criminal... "DEVELOPING..."
\_ Did they out Drudge yet?
\_ Drudge was also the one who said the kids seduced Foley.
\_ Because his dick was so large and tax free?
I know when I was a teen nothing was hotter. I'd beat off
to C-SPAN reruns in the wee hours.
\_ The transcripts I've seen imply that some of them were at least
playing along...
\_ so why would he have resigned?
\_ Mr. Accuracy strikes again!
\_ whoever said it was criminal anyway? age of consent is 16 in DC.
\_ whoever said it was criminal in the first place? age of consent is
16 in DC. it doesn't stop freepers around the country from going
ape over the left-wing MSM DemocRAT conspiracy, though.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1713877/posts
\_ Yes, George Soros has been breeding a master race of nubile
young boys, installed as moles in the page program to tempt
innocent conservative knights! The horror!
\_ Why can't George Soros breed a master race of nubile young
girls to install as moles in high tech fields to tempt
innocent geekish knights?
\_ Leak came from a GOP aide:
http://tinyurl.com/fy9mg (hillnews.com)
\_ obWhyDoesThisAideHateAmerica?
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/100506/news2.html |
| 2006/10/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44637 Activity:nil |
10/2 I knew somehow the Scientologists were involved
in this Foley business:
http://forums.dailyrotten.com/920/00022854/_index.html#287052 |
| 2006/9/30-10/2 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44612 Activity:kinda low |
9/30 Question for the Motd: If you see someone being held up by someone
with a gun, and you attempt to help that person (aka attacking thier
attacker, grabbing the gun, throwing something at the attacker etc).
If the person gets shot, can they sue you for negligence? If the
person dies, can you be charged criminally with murder, what about
civilly? This was bugging me as I was thinking about it the other
day on my way home. -mrauser
\_ Answers:
1) Yes, anyone can find a sleazy plaintiff's attorney to sue for
just about anything, including negligence. This is assuming
that you as the Good Samaritan have deep pockets, or an insurer
steps in to foot the bill. But they'll lose on this one.
2) Very little likelihood of any criminal charges against you. In
California, we have the felony-murder rule, which means that if
a criminal is in the act of committing a felony (like an armed
robbery), and a victim gets killed during that felony, then that
criminal is responsible for both the felony (here, armed robbery)
and murder. So as the Good Samaritan, you generally will not be
charged with murder or any of its lesser variants (like negligent
homicide, aka involuntary manslaughter), but the criminal can and
will get charged with both armed robbery and murder.
3) Yes, anyone can find a sleazy plaintiff's attorney to sue for
just about anything, inluding wrongful death. This is assuming
that you as the Good Samaritan have deep pockets, or an insurer
steps in to foot the bill. But they'll lose on this one.
--richard
\_ If the person getting killed as a result of your failed heroic
attempt is a normal citizen, then you'd be ok. If however that
person is famous, is connected to a wealthy family (16-year old
girl whos dad is well connected), has enough money to buy the
Dream Team, so on and so forth, then yes they can sue your ass
and you'd be totally fucked.
\_ I imagine that they could sue you. You can sue for just about
anything in this country - it's part of what makes America great.
That's not saying that you will win, of course. Why were you
thinking about it? Those sorts of heroics are almost always a
Really Bad Idea (tm).
\_ 1) pp is correct that a) anyone can sue or 2) anyone can bring
criminal charges against you and that the real question is "can
these charges/suits be pursued successfully" and that 2) this
sort of thing is usually ill-advised. But, the law permits
one to protect oneself against threats to life/limb when there
is no opportunity to escape (other states dont have the "must
take opportunity to escape" condition), and allows that right
to be extended to loved ones, family, and even bystanders in
certain cases. An almost as big question is "did you take
reasonable action?" If you have reasonable belief that you
have time to call the police so that they will arrive in time
to be of use, and you just charge in, you have a problem. The
general criteria for "reasonable action" consists of training,
ability, safety of others. You are clearly acting with a
reasonable expectation that your action will increase the
safety of others, but are you trained/able/equipped to deal
with this in a way that will not unreasonably exacerbate the
situation beyond what would otherwise happen? And if we're
talking about the assailant getting hurt, they lose any legal
recourse for injury/loss sustained while they commit a felony.
\_ You mean if somebody robs me and I throw a brick at their
head as they are leaving they cannot sue me?
\_ No. At that point you're no longer in danger.
\_ Civil negligence requires the following four elements to exist:
1. Duty: Does the defendant owe duty of care to the plaintiff?
2. Breach: Was that duty breached?
3. Cause: a. Actual: "But for the breach..." and also
b. Proximate: Was the injury reasonably foreseeable?
4. Injury: Was the plaintiff injured as a result?
I think this would be a hard case for the plaintiff to win. --dim
\_ Re Negligence: dim is correct re the elements. The question
really is then, did you breach your duty of
reasonable care under the circumstances? Maybe,
maybe not - it really depends on the facts. [I
do not really think causation is a big problem
here, b/c it is reasonably foreseeable that an
attacking an armed assailant can cause the gun
to go off.
Re Murder: Doubtful that you would be charged for murder. The
armed robber was the murder. Probably in CA he would
be charged w/ 1st degree murder b/c he was committing
a enumerated felony. You might be considered an acco-
mplice to his murder, but it is doubtful unless you
acted recklessly (ie didn't really take into account
the effect of your actions).
If charged as an accomplice, you really only have one
defense open to you - defense of others. But this is
a sketchy defense b/c it doesn't apply if the person
who was being held up wasn't really in danger.
Re Wrongful Death: Similar to negligence. Probably hard to win
unless they can show that you acted w/o
regard for the consequences of your actions.
[ I could have some of the details wrong b/c it has been 2 yrs
since I took these courses and I haven't refreshed for the
bar yet ]
\_ California has a 'good samaritan' law to cover situations like this.
\_ No, it doesn't. Just ask David Cash, one of the more infamous
undergraduate students to attend UC Berkeley in recent years.
If you are too young or too old to remember who he is, just
google "Jeremy Strohmeyer Sherrice Iverson David Cash". |
| 2006/9/30-10/2 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44611 Activity:moderate |
9/30 HAW HAW HAW
"It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with
such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual
addiction."
-Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL), commenting on President Clinton, following
release of the Starr Report, September 12, 1998.
\_ Maybe it's just me but when anyone molests a child or attempts to
it doesn't make me laugh.
\_ Oh, I'm crying as much as laughing. I'm mostly laughing because
it's the only thing you can do, besides cry. These guys really
are just pathetic and horrible.
TPM has great coverage of the whole sorry mess, by the way:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
\_ tpm? So you see this as a political event? Sigh.... Anyway,
child molesting shouldn't make you laugh or cry. It should
piss you off.
\_ Make no mistake, this IS a political event.
\_ My question of the day is, was Democrat behinded all
this? ABC is not known for its "liberal bias," and
so far, more explicit SMS and AOL IM has not yet being
released. Let say Mark Foley did send nasty emails,
SMS, AOL IM and try to penetrate some 16 years old's
ass, so what? Is he doing anything illegal?
Yes, he is a hyprocrite (along with much of those who
kept "traditional family value" on their mouth), but
I simply don't see anything he did which he need to
resign for.
\_ Solicitation of a minor is a crime. Get your head
out of your ass.
\_ Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to stick _real_ child molestation
in a different category than mailing lewd emails to a 16-year-old.
\_ Especially considering that in DC the age of consent is 16.
The only real crime is that he used the evil internet to
send the messages. -Not a GOP fan, not a over-reacting and
calling everything skeezy that involves children "child
molestation" fan.
\_ Oh and for the irony of it all, Foley was the co-sponsor
of the bill that made it a crime.
\_ Isn't there a federal law now that says if under 18 it's
a crime, no matter what the age of consent is in the
state? I agree it's dumb.
\_ I think the media has a Conservative bias. The Starr Report
gave all the glory details. How come the more explicit SMS
and IM messages are not made public?
\_ Are you the same tool who thought Pearl Harbor was biased against
the Japanese because the memorial there doesn't talk about the
atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? |
| 2006/9/27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44556 Activity:nil |
9/26 Leftist Department of The Army refuses to submit budget,
tries to embarass El Presidente in the GWOT:
http://www.csua.org/u/h0p |
| 2006/9/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:44514 Activity:nil |
9/23 Liberal CIA undermining American resolve in the Global War On Terror:
http://www.csua.org/u/gzo |
| 2006/9/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44482 Activity:nil |
9/21 Oh look, the fucking UN agrees that Bush is a War Criminal:
http://www.csua.org/u/gyg
The proposed legislation was "in breach with United States' human
rights obligation as identified in our report and with the fucking requirement
of article 3 of the fucking Geneva Conventions," they said, referring to the
1949 treaty which lays down basic guarantees of protection for detainees
\_ is this a report from the human rights council chaired by libya or
the one chaired by the sudan? i get my butchering mass murdering
\_ is this a report from the fucking human rights council chaired by libya or
the fucking one chaired by the sudan? i get my butchering mass murdering
dictators so confused. please help. |
| 2006/9/18-20 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44418 Activity:nil |
9/18 Raving lefty warns that lefties don't get the danger we're facing:
http://csua.org/u/gwx (LATimes)
\_ More accurately, "man with generally liberal views believes
world religions are genuinely incompatible, thinks liberals don't
'get it.'" Cf. Orson Scott Card, other libs who went virulent after
9/11.
\_ Orson Scott Card and "other liberals"??? Your credibility=0.
\_ Prior to 9/11, OSC was fairly liberal. Post-9/11, not so
much.
\_ Prior to 9/11 OSC was a rabbid nutcase.
Post 9/11 he just started raving louder.
\_ Sam Harris rocks. End of Faith was a good read, right up to the
unsubstantiated touchy-feely crap at the end.
\_ Yes the ending starting going into too much philoso-babble |
| 2006/9/15-19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Computer/Theory] UID:44392 Activity:nil |
9/15 Math professor suspended over allegedly racist test question
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/7275.html
\_ "This punishment is not only unfair and a violation of the First
Amendment, but also totally unnecessary."
The questions you put on a test that you create as part of your
paid employment is "free speech"?
\_ the argument has been made that the gubment doesn't have a
right to restrict speech, even if they are paying you.
(This was a public institution), if it had bee a private
school, it would have been different.
\_ Aren't these FIRE guys part of that nutter Horowitz's group? |
| 2006/9/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44356 Activity:nil |
9/12 How did they get that 46 percent drop in the murder rate in Baghdad?
Easy, just don't count deaths from "bombs, mortars, rockets or other
mass attacks -- including suicide bombings."
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/09/12/count/index.html
\_ "If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very
low crime rate." -- Marion Barry
\_ "Bitch set me up!" -- Marion Barry
\_ It makes sense to define ordinary murders from warlike activity--but
then it should be made clear, and not claim a decrease simply
because of redefinition.
\_ It makes even more sense that the administration would want
to spin their quagmire any way they can. |
| 2006/9/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44283 Activity:nil |
9/5 http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/05/cook.charged.ap/index.html 31-year-old cook living in Maine B&B, for some reason kills 50-year-old neighbor from Arkansas, burns dismembered remains 15 miles away. Two days later, kills 65-year-old female owner of inn, probably after she inquires about the 50-year-old guy. Owner's daughter and female friend show up unannounced, and they too are killed. Three dogs shot. Cook's stepmother summons police to inn, and cook leads police to first body. \_ It's all Bill Clinton's fault. \_ Nahh, it's the fault of his penis. \_ It's Maine, so it must be Stephen King's fault. \_ Send ... more ... humans \_ And so goes the plotline of the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre prequel, starring Jordana Brewster. \_ Where's the bit about the dogs? \_ All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. |
| 2006/9/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44239 Activity:nil 90%like:44243 |
9/1 Cal Thomas, "Al Gore is Right About the Media" http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/al_gore_is_right_about_the_med.html |
| 2006/8/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44174 Activity:low |
8/28 "Former Marine who sparked Okinawa furor is dead in suspected
murder-suicide"
http://www.csua.org/u/gsd (http://www.estripes.com
\_ Why is this newsworthy?
\_ Because some of us were paying attention when this asshole
went and tarnished the reputation of Marines everywhere. -!op |
| 2006/8/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44061 Activity:low |
8/17 Entire media pwned over Ramsey "confession?"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060818/ap_on_re_us/jonbenet_ramsey
\_ The guy's story was a bit odd on day 1. Once more details came
out it became really clear this guy had nothing to do with her
death. He's a sicko and a crank but he didn't kill her.
\_ That photo on the left looks like a still straight out of a movie.
\_ Yeah, with hair light and all. |
| 2006/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:44054 Activity:nil |
8/17 JonBenet case solved! Former school teacher admitted killing her.
The parents are clear after all.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/17/ap/world/mainD8JI3OSG0.shtml
\_ obWhoGivesAShit
\- the parents may not be murderers, but they are all freaks
\_ At this point it seems quite likely that this guys is lying, and
it is a false confession. He won't state anything verifiable
about the case, (that wasn't in the news), and he was a strong
alibi. (His ex-wife claims he was with her in Alabama that day.)
\_ Next time when you jack off to her pics you know which bastard
took your sweetheart away from this world. |
| 2006/8/10-14 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43958 Activity:nil |
8/10 Martinez murder, the weirdest part is the todo list
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/08/MNG3IKD9Q45.DTL
\_ Nicole Brown Simpson's "real killers" strike again. -Mark Fuhrman |
| 2006/8/2-6 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:43869 Activity:kinda low |
8/2 Lawrence Livermore Natl. Lab employee arrested on child porn
charges.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/search/ci_4120530
The thing I think is iteresting here is that the Lab has gone into
damage control mode. (Press releases that say things like, "We
are fully cooperating with the police," etc.) Do you really need
damage control in a case like this?
\_ I don't know what grant or funding politics are like for
that sort of organization, but I assume there is quite a bit
of nastiness that goes on when competing for govt. money. It
would be pretty easy to insinuate shit like "well, their people
are just surfing for kiddy porn on taxpayer dough" to the press.
I've seen worse. -John
\- Livermore is an employer with +10k employee ... dont you think
this is just a matter of statistics? It's not like they were
running a massive bittorrent p0rn server. Resources spent
playing Big Brother costs real money, and imposes real costs
[should the computer security people run "find *.jpg"
in people homedirs and have somebody spend 10hrs a week
looking these over?]
\_ You're preaching to the saved. Pr0n at the workplace, if
you consider it a problem, is not something you can solve
technically, and I argue this constantly (it's a management
issue.) Unfortunately, there's a combination of factors,
such as many managers not wanting to take ownership of
talking to employees whose work is being affected by non-
work stuff, over-zealous HR people, legal guys worried about
harassment suits and senir management who see this sort of
thing in a very binary manner, that often results in demands
for excessive "pre-emptive" measures. But in this case I
was just commenting on the logic behind the "damage control"
that op asked about--I don't know the politics that surround
LLNL, and was assuming that this was just pre-emptive to
avoid the case being misused by someone overly zealous or
with a political agenda. -John
\_ It's odder than that, all the porn was at home, none
was at work. So to my mind, LLNL has absolutely nothing
to do with this. Never the less, I think John has a
point about politics. (Digression from above: LLNL DOES
put a lot of man power into watching out for porn at
work.) -op
\- i didnt look at the details carefully, but if what you say
is true, this is a good example of "if the press wants to
do a hatchet job on you, no matter what steps you take,
thay can allways paint it as unreasonable" [save the
thay can always paint it as unreasonable" [save the
children, your tax dollars at work etc]. which isnt to say
"do nothing" but dont let "the standard of care" be "what
will satisfy a reporter with a small brain". [at various
times i have been involved in "appropriate use" compliance
issues and there is a very strong correlation with the
overall resonableness and cleverness of people working in
this area and their distate for being involved ... the one
person who was enthusiastic about this was a lying, incom-
petent sack of shit, who did a lot of underhanded political
things here, had no respect of anybody reasonable and some
what creepily made it part of his job to visit some of
the tagged WEEB site to make sure they were perverted/
pornish.]
\_ Wen Ho Lee got reamed for far less. -proud American
\_ To be fair, leaving around diskettes of nuclear secrets
is a lot worse than child porn.
\_ And your basis for saying he did is...?
\_ I thought he pled guilty to carelessly copying
classified nuclear crap to data cassettes and leaving
it in unclassified areas, probably for a job interview?
I don't think he was out there selling our secrets
to the Chinese, he was just really careless. Feel
free to prove me wrong.
\_ No, he didn't plead guilty to that.
\_ he was being single out because he is Chinese.
There are plenty of people in the lab do exactly the
same thing or worse but they end up in... hmm...
\_ I bet they don't anymore!
lecture hall of MIT instead of solidary comfinment
for 23 hours a day, shackled from waist down, for
9 month. May be you should really work for Christopher
Cox (author of "The Cox Report", now Chairman of SEC).
\_ and dude I don't know Chinese but I KNOW your
English is better than this, what is your problem? |
| 2006/7/25-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:43799 Activity:nil |
7/25 Big Brother is here to stay
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_us/phone_records_lawsuit
\_ "He also said Terkel and the other plaintiffs in the lawsuit, which
sought class-action status, had not shown that their own records
had been provided to the government. As a result, they lacked
standing to sue the government, he said."
So, in order to sue to prevent AT&T handing over my records to the
government in a super-secret and classified program, I must prove
that AT&T handed over my records to the government in a super-
secret program despite the fact that the government is not going to
honor my FOIA requests until they've declassified this super-secret
program. Brilliant!
\_ How many fingers do you see?
\_ There are FOUR lights!
\_ Hmmm, I can see we have some more work to do.
\_ c.f. Orwell, Kafka. Government hasn't come very far in 80 years. |
| 2006/7/12-16 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43641 Activity:low |
7/12 Edith Delgado, the Redwood City teenager who single-handedly stemmed
democratic reforms in the island kingdom of Tonga.
http://www.csua.org/u/geo (http://www.matangitonga.to
Neither http://images.google.com nor http://images.yahoo.com found this photo.
\_ So you can kill royal family members and go to jail for only 8
years? Automobiles-- the best instrument for murder.
\_ I think there's this little issue of intent. Without intent,
it's not technically murder. OTOH, if you try to run down
someone with your car with clear intent to hit them, that's a
whole different ball park.
\_ Stemmed? Perhaps stymied would be closer to the truth....
\_ she's already dead.. just a matter of time a couple of
samoans approach her if they find her..
\_ the pic is from her myspace profile, which appears to have been
shut down
\_ I thought Americans are pro-democracy.
\_ Yup, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Russia... all of them are fine
example of democracy.
\_ Going 100mph with a five-month old license. What a bitch. (I'm not
saying experience drivers can go 100mph.)
saying experienced drivers can go 100mph.)
saying experienced drivers can go 100mph, though.)
\_ I don't know the details, but from the description, it sounds like
it should have been a survivable crash. I guess Ford Explorers suck.
\_ And Mustangs totally kick ass.
\_ Well it sounded like she just sideswiped the Explorer, which
then swerved and rolled. I wonder how fast it was going.
Not excusing the idiot girl in any way btw...
\_ Incidentally, both Explorers and Mustangs are Ford.
\_ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593640188/sr=8-7/qid=1152754629/ref=sr_1_7/104-0932206-6103116?ie=UTF8
\_ http://csua.org/u/gev
\_ please stop putting up fotos of fat girls, ok thx.
\_ She's got boobs. |
| 2006/7/8-10 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43597 Activity:nil |
7/8 No flame wars about the Mexican election??! Damn.
\_ How can Mexicans be so interested in politics, yet still have
such a massively corrupt govenment?
\_ Who said they're interested in politics anymore than anyone
in any country. Mass demonstrations are dime a dozen in
Mexico, Central and South America. And what do you expect
them to do about it anyway? Mexico isn't a democracy and
has a cultural history of corruption just like the rest of
the world. It is the United States that stands out for our
relatively minimal corruption and our unwillingness to accept
that as standard practice when discovered. You won't find the
governments of other countries regularly investigating their own
political leaders a la Abscam or Jefferson's fridge.
\_ Yes, shoveling tons of money to the lawyer class helps those
who are too uneducated to follow fucking directions.
\_ What? What does this have to do with anything? Did you
mean to post this somewhere else? |
| 2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43566 Activity:nil |
7/5 Ken Lay dead, reportedly of a heart attack.
\_ Apparently, I'm not the only one who's suspecting this to be a
big cover up for him to escape his sentence:
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/52773
\_ Has the price of tin gone up recently?
\_ piss me off. I want this guy go to jail. And i am really mad
about how news articles kept saying he is a spiritual person...
I just love this logic. "he goes church, therefore, eventhough
he have stolen millions from the poor, he still deserve a place in
heavan."
\_ He's dead of a massive coronary. He's dead. He didn't escape
to South America with his ill gotten gains. He's dead. Dead.
He's dead, Jim, dead, dead, dead.
\_ Yeah, but that's pretty much what the Bible says. Good deeds are
totally irrelevant. Faith trumps all. |
| 2006/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43561 Activity:moderate |
7/5 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1659910/posts Recall two U.S. soldiers were kidnapped a couple weeks ago and killed. Reports are now that they were mutilated beyond recognition and beheaded. Recall that another U.S. soldier was charged with rape and quadruple murder last week. It turns out that all three soldiers were in the same platoon. \_ jblack, is that you? Do you still call them "Freedom Fries"? \_ Just watch the coverage disparity. \_ This is non-responsive. Just answer the question please. \_ there wasn't a question. why do you hate so much? -!jblack \_ "Do you still call them Freedom Fries", is not a question? What do you call it then? \_ blunt hostility serving no useful purpose. have you stopped beating your wife? -!jblack \_ Hey, you are the idiots who alienated our allies with the whole "Freedom Fries" thing. Along with triumphant aircraft carrier landings, "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys", "Old Europe", "Bring 'Em On!" and all the rest of the loudmouthed, trash talking. Now that things have not gone your way, you want to pretend like it all never happened. Sorry, three years ago is not ancient history and we need to be reminded of your arrogant foolishness, so as to learn from your mistakes and not repeat them. \_ "you are either with us, or against us." remember that line? and then, we invaded Iraq. Those who are resisting our occupation are by definition terrorist and should not be pardoned. Is this all thing warped? or it's just me? \_ "You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists" was how I remember it. Which is worse, I don't know... \_ how big is a platoon? \_ commanded by a lieutenant, a combat platoon typically has 30-40 \_ Compare the US non-reaction of this with the Israeli reaction of a kidnapping of *one* soldier in Gaza. No wonder our troops might as well have target circles painted on their uniforms. \_ think of why there is no reaction from our part? may be these US Soldiers deserve to be killed? |
| 2006/6/15-17 [Consumer/Camera, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43398 Activity:nil |
6/15 Dear MOTD apprentice lawyers, I sent in a camera to be repaired
under a third-party warranty. When I filled out the repair
website, after indicating that I am in South America, it indicated
that return shipping would cost $10 (the company's in the US.)
Now I receive a mail telling me it will cost $72 to get my camera
back, and that the $10 is only for US shipping addresses.
Aside from the fact that this is b.s. (I could see $25-$30), does
anyone have any advice on how to best get my camera back without
forking over? It's more a matter of principle... -John
\_ Where are you? My friend is going to Peru with her girlfriend and
they are wondering how scary it is for two girls to be wandering
Peru alone.
\_ I think the state department has regular updates/releases
about safety for Americans travelling abroad. I'll see if I
can dig up a URL if I have the time. -mice
\_ Some travel links:
(US State Department Travel Warnings)
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html
(Consular information about Peru -- the section on crime
seems pretty detailed, while the Safety and Security
section gives a good overview of the general political
climate)
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_998.html
(General List of Countries)
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1765.html
I hope this helps! -mice
\_ Chile. Most S. American tourist stuff is perfectly safe.
A friend of mine took a budget bus tour into Bolivia, and
had absolutely nil problems. I think if you stay out of
most parts of Colombia/Venezuela and exercise caution in
most urban areas (mainly Buenos Aires and Brazilian cities,
according to friends) you should be fine. From what I hear,
Peru is very safe. A good site for info about more exotic
destinations (beyond "where not to go as an American") is the
Lonely Planet BB at http://thorntree.com--I also assume your friends
are not going to be running around in neon shorts and fanny
packs talking in loud nasal American tourist voices. -John
\_ I thought FARC and the shining path had their
own Disneyland area in Peru
\_ FARC, maybe in way Northern Peru, who knows, but SL
were supposedly pretty well castrated by Fujimori and
his goons. -John |
| 2006/6/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43375 Activity:nil |
6/13 http://www.wbir.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=35168 "Judge Frank Damrell said the minted words amount to a secular national slogan, and don't force Michael Newdow to believe in one God." Whether or not you agree w/ the ruling, how can that possibly be considered a secular slogan? \_ In much the same way that Xmas has become a commercial holiday? I'm quibbling, perhaps.... \_ commercial != secular (e.g. "megachurches") \_ Church'N'Munch! \_ Maybe the judge needs to see the definition of 'secular' in the dictionary. Didn't Stephen Colbert say something like "I don't care if you're Muslim or Hindu or Jewish, there are many ways to accept Jesus as your savior" |
| 2006/6/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43354 Activity:nil |
6/12 http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/12/crime.rate/index.html Violent crime rate takes first big jump since '93. The murder rate in the United States shot up 4.8 percent last year, and overall violent crime was up 2.5 percent for the year, \_ Remember, it's all Clinton's fault. -Conservative \_ It's because Massachusetts legalized gay marriage. |
| 2006/6/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43289 Activity:nil |
6/6 How many voted for prop 82? Did you see the bit about having a
parent tax if the income tax doesn't generate enough revenue yet
no one will be denied access for lack of ability to pay? So where
does the shortfall come from? The general fund? A bonus tax for
everyone?
\_ The fact of the matter is, our government is poor. We don't
have enough money in the education system and everyone has to
suffer more crime and somehow make it up, like paying for more
jails. We're freeloaders leeching from our past social projects
such as our transit systems and power grids. We no longer build
anything these days, thanks to our tax-cutting loving Republicans
who have two things in mind-- privatizing everything that our
government can't afford, and cut even more tax. Thanks to them,
we have to suffer from sky rocketing crime rates much of it
due to the lack of education our kids have. We are forced to
build one of the largest jail systems in the world, and the quality
of living has been going down since the 80s when conservative
movements became popular. Fuck all this tax-cutting conservative
movements. Stop thinking about yourself and just raise the fucking
tax. It'll be better for everyone.
\_ Where do you keep pulling this "sky rocketing crime rates"
line from? Everything I've seen has crime dropping for the
last 20 years.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime
\_ Interesting theory since CA has some of the highest taxes in
the US but worst education system, bad jail system, and as you
say is living off the public works of the past. How do you
justify more taxing going into what we agree is a broken syetem?
How will throwing good money after bad make anything better?
Also, are you ok with hidden taxes like prop 82 creates? All
those parents who think they're getting free day care at the
expense of the wealthy will end up paying for it in the end.
That's a crappy way to write law or a proposition.
\_ How do you fix the system when you don't have enough
money to fix it? The only other alternative to not
taxing is privatizing everything and let the
free market take its course. Is that what you want?
\_ CA is 15th in state tax burden.
\_ 21st if you count only state taxes...
\_ 1 in 5 US workers is employed in some form by the government.
This giant mass of leeches, who demand anachronistic pension
and benefit plans and only ever grow in size, is a worthless
drag on the nation. I'm in favor of privatizing every public
school in the nation, and the postal service.
\_ Ah yes, fuck the system that attempts to give a flatter level
of playing field because survival of the fittest is how
the world should work. Let the free market take its course
because everything in life is be measured by efficiency,
profits, and making stock holders happy. I get it now.
Thank you very much!
\_ Ah yes let's make unfounded assumptions! The current
field is not flat. Privatising the schools wouldn't
necessarily make it worse given a voucher-like
system. In fact, odds are good that things would
be improved. Everyone would have more choice.
There would be more competition among the different
private schools with voucher money making them
more affordable for people. The private school I
had for 3 years was soooooo much better than any
public school I ever saw. And no, not everything
in life is measured by efficiency etc. That is
a stupid statement. Schools would be measured
the same as otherwise. Thanks for playing.
\_ This monolithic government that supposedly employs 20% of
working Americans does not exist. Each level of govt. (city,
state, federal) has its own system of employment benefits;
within those, different departments and branches have their
own systems and even different unions. Note also that govt.
jobs not tied to political appointments pay roughly 10-20%
less than equivalent private sector positions. I agree with
you that there is room for reform, but your sweeping
generalization does not do the situation justice.
\_ Actually, even political jobs pay less. For an example,
look at the pay of the President. However, the government
is also a lot more inefficient and wasteful than the
private sector. That is, in many positions (except the
most prestigious and for things like nuclear physicists
which depend on the DOE), the government is also
getting what it pays for - or often not even that.
\_ Yes the government is inefficient, there is no doubt
about that. Take the firefighters in New Enland
for example. Prior to the 1900s people paid private
firefighter insurance and when there were blocks of
homes on fire, the firefighters would extinguish fire
nearby homes that had special signs that they paid
for, while letting everything else burn down. It was
profitable and efficient, but it obviously didn't
provide a consistent service to everyone. It is NOT the
goal of the government to be profitable, it is to
provide everyone a consistent service at some monetary
loss which hopefully will benefit everyone in the
end. Most of the tax-cut loving conservatives will
never understand this, because their world is entirely
measured by efficiency and profits.
\- also plenty of "tax cut loving
conservatives" are ok with "mercantilist"
inititatives like: import-export bank,
subsidized research in their area of
interest, making private interests matters
of public policy [RIAA], or changing
more natural priorities of govt resources
allocated to things like trade negotions
in IP, agricultural subsidies, govt
allocating public resources without seeking
to maximize the return to the public
[sketchy ways of selling rights to say
airwaves, frequency, western grazing lands,
mineral rights etc].
\_ It is not the goal of government to be profitable,
but it should be efficient. The amount of red
tape that doesn't even make any sense is
staggering and constantly growing. It's why this
country produces more lawyers than the rest of
the world combined. Example from NASA: I want to
buy a supercomputer. The vendor agreed to provide
3 years warranty on the quote. However, one of
the five tasks funding the computer ends in one
year. (The rest continue past three years.)
Regulations say that we cannot accept the three
year warranty, as that is longer than one of the
funding tasks will be in existence (or maybe
not, because it could be extended perhaps).
Therefore, we had to ask vendors to provide only
one year of warranty, essentially throwing away
two free years. This is highly inefficient and
as a taxpayer, too, I am horrified. --dim
\_ Having survived the dotcom bubble and govt. jobs at
the city, state, and federal level, I respectfully
disagree with your assessment insofar as I think you're
being much too generous to private sector employees.
\_ <DEAD>Dot.com<DEAD> was just a big party. To be fair,
compare to *profitable* companies.
\_ What, like Enron? WorldCom?
\_ Are you suggesting the employees at Enron
and WorldCom were not hard-working and
efficient? I would guess that most were.
\_ I don't think there's any real evidence that
private companies as a whole are more efficient
than government as a whole. Good private
companies are more efficient than bad government,
and vice versa. If Orange County had been a
corporation, it would have laid everyone off,
bilked its investors, and sold pieces of itself
out for pennies on the dollar, as Enron and
WorldCom did. That's highly inefficient. -tom
\_ Private companies are efficient at maximizing
***PROFITS*** without regard to anything else
such as the quality of service, unless of
course there is enough competition to drive
them to be less profitable. Government
services on the other hand have initial
noble intent of creating services for the
people but many fail because of a lack of
accountability (FEMA, CIA, etc). In the end,
neither pure free-market nor strict government
controlled programs work well on a
consistent basis for a long period of time.
\_ "In particular, studies of garbage collection,
water utilities, electric utilities, office
cleaning, firefighting, and transportation
(airlines, railroads, buses) found that
private providers were more efficient under
conditions of competition and accountability
(Donahue 1991; Spann 1977).
Notably, though, in several instances public
provision was more efficient than private
provision, even under competitive market
conditions (Donahue 1991)."
There are instances where it doesn't make
sense to privatize a service (e.g.
duplication of infrastructure involved in
electricity transmission) but I think it's
obvious that in most cases the private
sector is more efficient because it has an
incentive to be. What incentive does the
government have to be efficient?
\_ Civilian and press oversight; not something
corporations generally need to worry
about in this country. -tom
\_ The point is not that it has no incentive
to be efficient. The problem is that
lack of competition and choice is less
efficient. The government can just do
stupid things and there is no market
to punish their stupid decisions.
They just get more money when they
squander what they have. They set up
idiotic and corrupt contract deals.
Oversight doesn't prevent mediocrity.
It doesn't really do anything at all,
just generates discussion when something
particularly egregious comes up, or
laws are broken. Corporations do still
obey laws in this country.
\_ You think competition is inherently
more efficient? Tell me, how many
programming languages does your
company's main product use for
development? Would your development
be more efficient if you had two
different groups, one using Java and
one using Ruby, competing to develop
the same product?
Competition between companies doesn't
prevent mediocrity. And there is
a market that punishes stupid
governmental decisions; it's called
"voting." -tom
\_ Voting can't handle this. Voters
are worried about gay marriage.
They don't have the time nor
inclination to dig through stuff
and analyze... and even if they
did, it still doesn't help. A
real market, at least ideally,
selects the best performers.
I read about govt fuckups all
the time and never hear about
heads rolling. Everything is
aggregated. If you try to punish
poor performance in one area it
is lost in the noise. And you
have small way of knowing if
the new guy is any better than
the old.
\_ And even if he is, term
limits mean he won't be around
long. This helps when there's
an idiot like Bush in office,
but it's bad when there's
someone sincere and capable. |
| 2006/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43265 Activity:low |
6/2 "You don't need papers for voting"
Busby on defense, says she misspoke
http://csua.org/u/g2g |
| 2006/5/27-31 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43208 Activity:nil |
5/26 I was looking at the article of the constitution which discusses
congressional apportionment and the 14th ammendmant and I had 2
questions:
1. Are there any more "Indians not taxed", and are they left uncounted
for figuring a state's representation?
2. It says persons disenfranchised for criminal conviction should not
be counted for representation. Is this actually honored? |
| 2006/5/26-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:43197 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto |
5/26 http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/54921_energy18.shtml "Enron has been the largest single doner to GWB" Is this really true? I thought Walmart was. \_ Kenny who? |
| 2006/5/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43176 Activity:nil |
5/24 Final report on Miami air marshal shooting released, finding that
marshals were legally justified in use of force, and no criminal
charges will be filed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service |
| 2006/5/22-28 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43150 Activity:nil |
5/22 http://www.white-history.com/hwrdet.htm THE MULTI-RACIAL DECLINE OF CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - A PHOTOGRAPHIC ESSAY ----------stupidity above this line---------- \_ These posts are here as a joke, right? Please? -mice |
| 2006/5/17-22 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43082 Activity:nil |
5/16 Sowell on the Duke rape case
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/05/17/197673.html
\_ I don't see anything wrong with any of his points; they just come
down to the truth of what really happened. That opening quote from
the "young man at NCCU" really is reprehensible. Whether this is as
much of a shared attitude as Sowell claims is another matter.
\_ I guess you've read "Bonfire of the Vanities" -John
\_ I like how he conflates one idiotic statement by one stupid
college student with the attitude of the entire civil rights
leadership.
\_ that's a pretty common pundit tactic these days.
\_ When I get bored I leap to the defense of scummy rich white
guys from Duke who run around raping black women.
\_ allegedly raping... or maybe we should skip the whole trial?
\_ Was the victim attractive?
\_ She was dressed in a provacative manner!
\_ Remember, strippers' testimony isn't worth as much as
that of "normal people"
\_ No, but getting your story straight is important. |
| 2006/5/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:43064 Activity:nil |
5/15 http://www.nysun.com/article/32727 "The story is a complete fabrication," the spokesman for Mr. Rove, Mark Corallo, told The New York Sun. "It is both malicious and disgraceful." [Rove reportedly served with an indictment] http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306W.shtml |
| 2006/5/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43057 Activity:nil |
5/15 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/05/15/duke.lacrosse.ap Third Duke jock indicted. Let's all celebrate!!! May all the jocks and frat boys go to hell. Justice has been served. -nerd \_ Uhm, I think there has to be a conviction before your revenge for all those wedgies in highschool is complete. \_ Ok I'll pray for that to happen. By the way do you want to hear my side of the story in high school and why I hate them? -nerd \_ You'll pray for that to happen? ...And if they're innocent of this crime? Does that even matter to you? \_ Much as I like to think of all athletes as borderline criminal types at best, this is a really confusing case. DNA evidence indicates no involvement, the guy passed a lie detector test... Victim says it'd be Evans "if he had a mustache", but he says he has never had one. \_ 'all athletes as borderline criminal types at best'? That's kind of bizarre. \_ C'mon, half of them are on steroids to try to cheat their way into success, and the rest are getting arrested for violence, rape, or illegal drug use. Just read the news. \_ We're talking about *lacrosse players*. -tom \_ It will be at least 20 years until they are pillaging the assets of major corporations ... \_ Don't forget that everyone she was shown in the lineup was on the team. |
| 2006/5/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:43053 Activity:nil |
5/14 http://saveoceanbeach.org/stopthefireban proposed ban on fires on ocean beach. \_ Why do they ban beachfires in CA? FL, Carolinas, Vi Bch, etc don't seem to care? \- i assume because people burn stuff like pallats with \_ they want to ban it in SF because assholes leave their detritus on the beach. \- i assume because people burn stuff like pallets with nails and people who do obnoxious things like throw glass bottles in the fires. \_ Heh, why not just put stone-enclosed "fire areas" there? That way you could burn what you wanted... -John \_ It could be an air quality thing. |
| 2006/5/11-15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:43017 Activity:nil |
5/11 http://csua.org/u/fti (wsj.com) Star conservative judge J. Michael Luttig gives up lifetime federal appeals court seat to become General Counsel for Boeing, partly because of disillusionment by the encroachment of politics on the judiciary sources say How to resign without ruining your career prospects: link:csua.org/u/ftn (timesdispatch.com) "[by phone] I've been on the court 15 years. It's a long time. This opportunity came up, as I said in my letter to the president, by serendipity and I thought about it a long time with my wife and we just decided that it was time for a change. [via letter] I want to express my heartfelt thanks to your father ..." \_ Maybe it's just true? |
| 2006/5/2-5 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42893 Activity:nil |
5/2 ojuang: don't bust up the massage parlor if you think you got robbed:
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2006/05/02/1559957-sun.html
\_ oj, are you interested in anything except money, porn and technology
\_ And how exactly does this differentiate oj from the majority of
sodans, exactly?
\_ Some people here care about say politics or research. |
| 2006/4/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:42684 Activity:kinda low |
4/5 http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/chldprn/fladoyle32806cr2.html Dept of Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary Brian J. Doyle charged with 23 felony counts involving Internet pr0n, Bill O'Reilly style telephone conversations with a detective posing as a 14-year-old girl. I knew I recognized his name from somewhere ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service \_ Remember, the reason that we need to stop bitching about all this Civil Liberties crap is because the people who work to protect our nation's security are 100% trustworthy! Checks and balances are for blocking Congress' power, not executive power. Oh, and atheists.. remember, they're neither citizens or patriots. \_ People who don't believe in fairy tales cannot be fully trusted. \_ Maybe you missed the core concept here: he got caught and busted not protected and excused. You want checks and balances, you got them. This guy is now in jail. What more could you want? I know ebing knee-jerk is more fun, but really. \_ And you miss his core concept. He's saying we _actually do_ have to worry about our civil liberties and abuses thereof is that people like this are in the machine. His argument is not with you. His argument is with the president and his "Trust me" argument. That this guy was caught doesn't make the system any more trustworthy. Funny fact: Do you know he's the third DHS employee in the last three months arrested for sex-with-children charges? \_ Oh no, I understood his point perfectly. You again miss mine. People are people. Any system will always have fuck heads like that guy in it. That's why we have other people looking for people like that and when they're found they get tossed in prison and never get put in any position of trust ever again. What system could you possibly create that wouldn't require some level of trust of the people who run it and would magically pre-filter fuck heads out before they commit a crime? In this case there was no victim because he was caught and filtered before he found a *real* 14 year old girl (as far as we know). And now he's a dead man and rightly so. The system worked. I see no problem here. \_ I, and the previous poster, are not saying "we need to/ can make the system trustworthy." We are speaking to the President's claim that his actions (warrantless wiretaps, extraordinary rendition, et.al.) are implicitly trustworthy. As you say, the system worked to catch this guy. What we're talking about are the systems that have recently been constructed that don't have the necessary checks. \_ you missed the big one: label someone as "enemy combatent" and lock them in torture chamber somewhere in Egypt/Pakistan and doesn't allow Red Cross to examine them :p \_ That's right every system will have fuckups and criminals and power hungry bastards which is why when Bush starts talking about the "unitary executive" and being able to ignore any law Congress passed because he's on a never-ending quest to rid the world of terra, and ignore any court oversight too, people start to worry about "the system" no longer policiing itself worry about "the system" no longer policing itself properly. |
| 2006/4/4-6 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42656 Activity:moderate |
4/4 "The [black] kids here have no hope. They have nothing to aspire to
other that being a rapper or an athlete, and that's a million-to-one
shot. In my neighborhood the only people recruiting are the gangs."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060404/od_nm/crime_newjersey_dc
\_ http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/dead-kennedys/38151.html
"Empty plastic
Culture slum suburbia
Is a war zone now
Sprouting the kinds of gangs
We thought we'd left behind
This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere"
\_ Everything I know came from a lyrics site on the net, too.
\_ after centuries of oppression, what do you expect?
"here is your freedom from slavery, not get the fuck out
"here is your freedom from slavery, now get the fuck out
of here"
\_ Yeah, right.
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
We gained so much valuable medical information from
these experiments.
And don't forget all blacks love that guy Jim Crow!!
\_ And up above you can see anonymous people arguing like idiots! -dans
\_ why are you not hanging out with your hot gf instead of
nuking the motd?
\_ UCSC is back in session. She has school, I have work to do
for clients. -dans
\_ You work for a think tank that studies the crazy political
positions of computer industry professionals? That's cool.
Are they hiring?
positions of computer industry professionals? That's
cool. Are they hiring?
\_ Get in line, buddy! I've been here way longer than
you! There's a seniority system in place.
\_ I totally agree that black kids have no hope. I mean until ROTJ
black kids could hope to become a Dark Lord of the Sith w/
unrivaled force powers and other 1337 mad skillz, but then Lucas
screws it all up by revealing that the badest black man in the
history of the universe was really a pastey old white geezer. That
is the real crime. Now all black kids have to hope for is to become
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Sec. of State or a Justice of the
Supreme Court. Not one lightsaber amongst them, talk about a total
let down. -stmg
\_ But they can be like Lando Calrissian and drink Colt 45!
\_ Lando sold out to a pastey old white guy. =(
\_ "I'm altering our deal. Pray I don't alter it any futher."
\_ Uh, so until then you thought Luke might be part black?
\_ "You don't know the power of the Dark Side."
Besides in a galaxy, far far awy, Black + White could
equal whiny, long haired blond luser. -stmg |
| 2006/4/4 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:42655 Activity:nil |
4/4 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4866964.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4773160.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4358830.stm The Culture of Corruption making headlines. Any more on the list? |
| 2006/4/3-4 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42640 Activity:nil |
4/3 Michigan Video Game Law ruled unconstitutional:
http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/249146.html |
| 2006/4/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42639 Activity:moderate |
4/3 Corrupt thieving scum, Tom DeLay, withdrawing from his 2006
congressional bid. (cnn.com breaking news)
Story from Time:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1179853,00.html
(and goddammit, stop overwriting, sprawl bitch)
\_ He needs to leave so that his colleagues can do a better job
gerrymandering, laundering, and funneling campaign cash.
\_ "I am not a federal employee. I am a constitutional officer. My job
is the Constitution of the United States, I am not a government
employee. I am in the Constitution." Tom DeLay, in a CNN interview
\_ Mr. "I am the Law!"
\_ In the cursed Earth where the mutants dwell
There is no law just a living hell
Anarchy and chaos and the blood runs red
This would change if it were up to Dred
The book of law is the bible to him
Any crime commited is a sin
He keeps peace with his lawgiver ...
Judge, jury, and executionerrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
RESPECT THE BADGE!
He earned it with his blood
FEAR THE GUN
Your sentence may be death because
I AM THE LAW!!!!!!
\_ Frankly he doesn't seem to be any more corrupt and thieving than his
434 colleagues.
\_ I would disagree. He appears to be the most organized
and effective of his 434 colleagues when it comes to
gerrymandering and laundering^^^^^funneling campaign
cash to his cronies.
\_ Oh granted he's one of the most partisan of the house, and for
that reason I'm happy that he's leaving, but he certainly
doesn't seem measurably worse than the others.
\_ partisan? uhm, duh? you know what the party system is
all about right?
\_ Um, do a little research. His partisanship is not what
got him named in multiple indictments.
\_ He's a Republican. That alone makes him Evil and Corrupt. No
need for a trial or anything to prove that.
\_ Find me a Dem who demanded that Terry Schiavo be kept on
life support despite pulling the plug on his own father, and
I'll boo him, too.
\_ I told you he was evil on his party alone. What more do
you want? |
| 2006/3/23 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42388 Activity:nil |
3/22 OJ
\_ Simpson
\_ guilty
\_ Chewbacca Defence
\_ juice
\_ vitamin C
\_ Oliver Juang
\_ hello kitty
\_ Japan
\_ TRACI LORDS
\_ engineer
\_ LIBERTARIAN!!1!!
\_ nerd
\_ Oliver Klozoff |
| 2006/3/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Reference/Religion] UID:42331 Activity:moderate |
3/20 religion of peace - or intolerance?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188364,00.html
\_ FREEDOM IS ON THE FUCKING MARCH
\_ bad decision on the gov.'s part. best case is they
should just exile the poor guy. it sucks that people
magically pull laws out of their ass and say
"it's Islamic law!" when it was really only in the hadith,
not the koran.
\_ let's kick some middle east butt then
\_ if you dont believe in islam, you are attacking it
and therefore you have to die.. paraphrasing the judge
so.. everyone who is not muslim must die then..
\_ that explains the 99% muslim rate in afghanistan.
\_they maintain a 1% hindu population in order
to maintain their shooting skills
\_ They'll get what's coming to them after we've exploited
all their countries' natural resources (e.g., oil)
- passive aggressive man
\_ the liberal view is to just wipe them out first
and then take their oil freely?
\_ Mission Accomplished!
\_ From the BBC version:
"The editor of a women's rights magazine was convicted of insulting
Islam and sentenced to death last year - but was later released
after an apology and heavy international pressure."
Expect a similar result here. Executing apostates would
significantly undermine Karzai. |
| 2006/3/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42199 Activity:nil |
3/12 If there is a draft, what's the best way to avoid it? Get a tatoo.
Yep, you can't have them in the military!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/uncle_sam_wants_you
\_ Draft? There is no draft and there won't be one without some sort
of catastrophy like the US mainland getting invaded or a nuke
exchange or some other unlikely scenarios. If we ever do have
another draft, there won't be an easy way to avoid it because the
circumstances will be so dire. Drafted soldiers are against
everything the top brass believes in for the last 30 years.
\_ The "military experts" on the motd are just as annoying as the
draft hysterics.
\_ You don't have to be an expert to read newspapers and
understand the most trivial aspects of current military
doctrine.
\_ Ahh yes, newspapers. Let's just fire all the generals
and leave the military decisions to the Sodans armed with
the New York Times!
\_ That's a weak strawman. I said nothing of the sort.
If you can't address what was said, then don't. It
is ok to be wrong sometimes.
\_ You weren't addressing my point either, which was
general annoyance at all the ridiculous undergrad
pontification that goes on around here. Certain
topics seem to attract this sort of thing, like
flies on shit.
\_ The irony here is rich: you're criticizing
the other guy for maybe having clue when you
clearly have none. Nice. Train harder,
young trollhopper.
\_ Sounds better than firing the generals and leaving
military decisions up to a moron frat boy who doesn't
even read the paper.
\_ Ahh, name calling. Thanks for playing!
\_ Right, and likening people to "flies on shit"
is sooooo much better. Grow up, man.
\_ "I am gay." |
| 2006/3/3-6 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42091 Activity:nil |
3/3 http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-palomares3mar03,0,7560875.story "While this story sounds like a script from 'The Shield' or 'Training Day,' it actually happened." \_ What's a "civilian custodial officer"? |
| 2006/3/3-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42089 Activity:high |
3/3 http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/03/cunningham.sentence.ap Take a bribe for $2 mil for only 10 years in prison. That's still over 2X the amount I make a year as an engineer and 1.5X the amount average Harvard MBAs make. Moral of the story: it's ok to take a bribe as long as the amount is big enough, because it pays off. \_ You think being in prison, even a country club prison, for 10 years is worth it? I'll take my freedom thanks. The price for freedom is way higher than 2x your salary. \_ Seriously. this douchebag op thinks prison can't be any harder than a day away from his computer, and actually doesn't realize how he'd likely die within one week, literally, of prison life. people the likes of us on the motd don't last long in prison. \_ My old CS250 TA did a year in county lock-up. It wasn't fun, but he survived ok. He's a really sweet guy too. \_ Did you read the article? First off, it's all in gifts, it's not like they just handed him $2.4mil. Two, he probably doesn't get to keep the stuff. Three, he's old and in poor health. I don't think I'd take $2mil to die in prison. \_ He's also probably going to face a big fine as well. An earlier version of that article claimed $1.6M, but the current article on CNN doesn't say.... \_ He's also probably going to face a big fine as well. According to Yahoo News, he was ordered to pay $1.8M and return $1.85M in valuables. I'm inclined to think that this contradicts the "Moral of the story" you've asserted, OP. \_ He doesn't get to keep it. In fact, it's being auctioned off. http://www.treas.gov/auctions/customs/p030206.html He got 100 months, btw. (8y4m) In sheer dollar amounts, his is the largest set of bribes discovered in the history of the house. \_ I don't buy this crap about being the largest set of bribes. Surely the money Bush or Cheney personally gained from the Iraq war would make this seems like pocket change. \_ Perhaps they mean the largest in the sense of "the largest where there's been a conviction". \_ How much did they each make? \_ I'm glad you think rich people conspire "illegal" ways to get richer. |
| 2006/3/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:42076 Activity:nil |
3/2 http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/03/02/homeschool.growth.reut Home Schooling more and more popular in the US. Many of the parents do so to teach diversity in politics, religion, moral/ethics, family values, and such. Go conservative America! \_ I'm a liberal, and I'm tempted to do it, because without vouchers the only school I could afford to send my child to (without moving to a different neighborhood) is the local crapshack Union-run moron factory. \- or you could SUE and send your kid to school in Switzerland! \_ down with lazy teacher's unions! \_ Yes! down with the lazy and corrupt union. \_ yes! (except it's not just the teacher's union that's lazy) \_ why do you guys HATE the CHILDREN ? |
| 2006/3/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Academia/GradSchool] UID:42062 Activity:nil |
3/2 Nancy Grace is the new James Frey
http://www.observer.com/20060306/20060306_Rebecca_Dana_pageone_nytv.asp |
| 2006/3/1-4 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Recreation/Media] UID:42058 Activity:nil |
3/1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060301/od_nm/cannibal_film_dc Proof that Germans are the weirdest people in the world. \_ http://snltranscripts.jt.org/90/90asprockets.phtml http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/42170 |
| 2006/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:42010 Activity:low |
2/26 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1583995/posts Legal and illegal immigrants booted out of the country because of drugs, money laundering, bank fraud, fake IDs \_ Were any of the people booted out Caucasian? How about criminal and money penalties against famers employing illegal aliens? Maybe illegal aliens should try the "i was confused (and thought i was still in mexico)" defense ... i mean it is good enough for highly compensated, well-educated business executives. \_ Farmers are fined when they're caught employing illegal aliens. \- the point is how vigorous is enforcement. duh. and see point about criminal penalties in addition to fines. \_ Why do you hate pro-business America? It's not business' fault they hired an illegal, it's the illegal's fault for being illegal. Figuring out who is legal and who is not is too hard for the small business owners like Tyson Chicken or Walmart. Get government regulators off the backs of the business man. \_ Err, is this post intended to be satirical? I'm honestly not sure.... \_ it *IS* the business' fault if they didn't follow legally mandated requirements for checking proof of eligibility to work. \_ "...charged in New York with drug possession and trafficking, money laundering, bank and credit-card fraud or producing false identities." Sounds like the IIRAIRA in action. Passed in 1996, came out of a commission set up by Clinton and chaired by Barbara Jordan, to make it easy (among other things) to deport "aggravated felons". |
| 2006/2/21-23 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:41945 Activity:low |
2/21 Michael Morales, convicted of brutally murdering a 17-year-old
A-student who had sung in church choir and who was working part-time to
earn money for college, has had his execution indefinitely postponed.
FYI, his sentencing judge formally recommended commutation from death
to life-in-prison w/o parole last month, after it was found that the
prosecution's star witness had lied about a Morales making a
confession.
\_ Uhm, yeahhh.....
http://tinyurl.com/l2yua (reuters)
\_ "Killer's Execution is Postponed Indefinitely"
http://csua.org/u/f1l (latimes.com)
Original post implied it was postponed because of the trial
judge recommendation. This was incorrect. Delay is for
review of execution procedures, hearing scheduled May 1. -op
\_"The sworn statements of six jurors supporting the clemency bid
and another statement from a prosecution witness recanting her
testimony were proved to be forgeries by the prosecuting team."
Dude, Ken Starr is fucking tool.
\_ Yeah, but even so, the trial judge supports commutation
to life w/o possibility of parole because of the star witness
to life w/o possibility of parole because the star witness
lied.
\_ But didn't he also claim to have "turned his life around" and
"sought forgiveness"? Doesn't that imply he, at least after his
initial trial, was admitting guilt?
\_ I think there is no doubt he did it, but I also think that there
is a question whether the jury would have went with death w/o
the star witness. I think that's why the trial judge said
what he said. |
| 2006/2/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:41811 Activity:moderate |
2/11 "Oh, and the President was arrested for murder. More on that
tomorrow night, or you can turn to another channel." -Kent
\_ Truth stranger than fiction:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4707354.stm
\_ It can't be a murder. It gotta be a suicide, by two control
shots in the back of his head.
\_ He fell down an elevator shaft and landed on some bullets.
\_ I don't know much about hunting, but I thought it's standard bird-
hunting procedure to never point your shotgun near level or lower
when you're aiming, let alone when pulling the trigger.
\_ Pretty much. But they were Quayle hunting, and I think
Quayle tend to stay fairly low to the ground.
\_ Pretty much. But they were quail hunting, and I think
quail tend to stay fairly low to the ground. |
| 2006/2/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41809 Activity:nil |
2/12 Islam is the Vic-20 of cultures:
http://www.joeuser.com/articles.asp?c=1&AID=100703
\_ I miss JUMPMAN
\_ These days it's called "BEHEAD MAN" |
| 2006/2/7-9 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:41743 Activity:nil |
2/7 Who gave this guy a nano?
http://tinyurl.com/b525g - danh
\_ That looks like a cell phone to me
\_ Is this an in-jail pic? 'Cos that looks like a knife handle to me.
\_ It would be funny if we have a picture of Bin Laden listening
on the iPod.
\_ without a blade ... http://csua.org/u/ex6 (yahoo.com)
\_ Good eye. Thanks |
| 2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41728 Activity:nil |
2/6 Uh, so why is Gonzales not testifying under oath?
\_ Because congressional Republicans have decided that castrating
themselves at the altar of Bush is a fine way to run a country.
\_ It's a crime to lie to Congress whether you're under oath or not.
But not putting him under oath means no symbolic photo of him
raising his right hand. Propaganda war is everything.
\_ U.S. Code, Statements http://tinyurl.com/7p7q6
U.S. Code, Perjury http://tinyurl.com/9shkt (both http://cornell.edu)
Okay, I am not a lawyer, someone pls figure out the diff.
"I think what we did was legal." (but you actually think it wasn't)
It turns out to be legal, but proof is found showing you didn't
actually think it was legal (you knowingly lied about what you
thought).
Perjury: Yes.
Materially false/fictitious/fraudulent/misrep statement: No.
Gonzales was not sworn in, so cannot be found guilty of perjury, but
can be for false statements. I am not a lawyer. -op |
| 2006/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:41677 Activity:nil |
2/2 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak_1 Ignore who is the source of which quote, but what's the difference between the sentences below: (1) In an abundance of caution, we advise you that we have learned that not all e-mail of the Office of Vice President and the Executive Office of the President for certain time periods in 2003 was preserved through the normal archiving process on the White House computer system. (2) Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is raising the possibility that records sought in the CIA leak investigation could be missing because of an e-mail archiving problem at the White House. |
| 11/26 |