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| 12/25 |
| 2003/7/25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:29135 Activity:high |
7/24 How many of you are going to recall Davis in Oct?
Yes ...
No ....
\_ I think, based on the things out of his control (i.e. dot com
bubble, corrupt power companies), I think he's done a good job.
He's the reason why gas stations can no longer can charge for
air/ water in CA. I hated that!
\_ Uhm, no. He helped create and maintain CA's tax system which
was *heavily* based on money from cap. gains (stock options) and
thus had the entire state deep into the dotcom bubble. He also
did nothing to get us out the power mess and in many ways made
it worse by being spineless and by signing even more bloated
contracts with the same people who fucked us/him the first time
around. At best he's a boob. At worst he should be the first
against the wall when the revolution comes. How can you live in
CA and somehow believe this vapid career politician is somehow
merely a victim of circumstance? Do you say the same thing about
Bush and the federal economy? Oh poor George inherited this mess
from Clinton and it's all someone else's fault! No. If GWB gets
crushed in '04 it'll be because of the economy and rightly so,
the same as Davis today. There's always another politician.
This one had more than enough chances and did nothing each time.
\_ There was not much whoever inherited the White House could
have done. The late 90's were nothing more than a speculative
bubble. Greenspan injected 5 trillion into the economy
over the period.
\_ Davis attacked Riordan in order to face Simon. Davis concealed
the magnitude of the deficit. Davis and his pals increased
state spending without adequate preparation for a tech bubble
burst. The first reason is enough for me to vote to eject Davis.
-Democrat in L.A.
\_ Ahhhhhhhrrnoold!
\_ I'm totally voting for Arney if he runs. Too bad he can't
follow in Reagan's footsteps and become President after but
we can always just ignore the Constitution since it's a living
document.
\_Demolition MAN!
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510039949,00.html
\_ If he wins, that means no more new blockbuster action
flicks from him!!
\_ Yeah, but then you can have quotes like "Your tax
proposals will be Terminated!" and "I'll be back ...
if you elect me for a 2nd term!"
\_ If he runs, he needs a speech therapist like he had on the set
of True Lies. You can barely understand him in all his other
movies.
\_ so is his speech impediment due to learning disabilities
or just that that Scandinavians speak like that?
\_ He is from fucking AUSTRIA! OSTERREICH! GET IT,
you fool!?
\_ I think he modeled himself after Hans and Franz on SNL,
but he has much bigger muscles.
\_ If the Republicans were dumb enough to not realize that Davis
campaigning against Riordan should have made them more likely
to vote for him, there is no help for them. Davis has the
right to campaign for whomever he chooses, just like any
other American. I agree with you on the rest of your points
though. |
| 2003/7/25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Security] UID:29134 Activity:kinda low |
7/24 Any recommendations for high-speed access in La Palma, Ca? I have
SBC for phone service, but ironically, I can't get the Yahoo/SBC DSL
deal where I live.
\_ try using http://www.dslreports.com to search |
| 2003/7/15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:29038 Activity:nil |
7/14 Crisis continues: US may abolish H1-B visa
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/945304/posts?page=1,50 |
| 2003/7/11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:29008 Activity:moderate |
7/10 Che,
As of midnight, The Guevara family residence at: 333 Soda Hall
#1776, Berkeley, Ca 94705 is Pre-Qualified for a 5.13% 30 YR Fixed.
I have prepared these monthly payment examples for your Berkeley
property.
Click Here Now For a 1 Minute Quick Quote.
Thank You,
Belita Fidella
American Refinance Group
\_ Kind of her to pre-qual you Che. Too bad you're both dead and an
anti-capitalist.
\_ just take the loan and run |
| 2003/7/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Security] UID:28981 Activity:very high |
7/9 Diebold voting machines easily hackable:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
Why on earth would you use Microsoft Access to do something as
important as tabulating votes?
\_ because you care more about short-term profit than democracy?
\_ Well, there goes their profit.
\_ how is there profit in using a shrink wrap ware instead of a
free one? they're stupid but not for the reason you feel.
\_ thanks guys, once in a while this anti-corporate, "they
are all a bunch of evil greed heads" draws me in and i
forget that the answer is almost always "people are
stupid" rather than "people are evil", it's good that
\_ How about making software as "product" and subject to
product reliability law suit? duh
there are others who realize that and can remind me when
i forget. -phuqm
\_ only criminals would hack into systems. let law enforcement
do its job, fucker
\_ hmm, these sound like the words of a criminal who is aware
just how unlikely the "job" is to get done. You know, that
or a Troll. -phuqm
\_ Or corrupt/zealous/partial/party-affiliated voting officials
\_ That makes them criminals, DUH!
\_ hah! the great long tradition of police protecting voting...
\_ how about making software as a "product" (instead of this
licensing nonsense) and subject to product reliability law suit? |
| 2003/6/30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28862 Activity:high |
6/29 I've been out of California for about 4 years ... but I've reacently
found out about something called "2 Buck Chuck" -- an allegedly
adequate wine found a Trader Joe's for 2 bux/bottle. Has anyone
had any and, if so, would they care to comment about their exprience?
\_it's o.k. for the price, and it sure beats cooking with "cooking
wine," but i don't think it's really good enough to just sit around
and drink
\_ Yup, it's an OK table wine and good for inexpensive parties
for college students ;)
\_ I've heard its really good... have never tried it, but friends
have had "tasting parties" and most people rated the $2 bottle
higher than other more expensive ones |
| 2003/6/30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28861 Activity:high |
x6/28 Do We Want Mexifornia?
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_do_we_want.html
Other studies suggest that the average California
household must contribute at least $1,200 each year to
subsidize the deficit between what immigrants
cost in services and pay in taxes.
\_ err... California used to be part of Mexico at first place.
What do you mean by "Mexifornia" anyway? --kngarv
\- what is the per familiy deficit between CA Fed Tax receipts
and what CA gets from the Fed govt? --psb
\_ A few years ago, the Urban Institute released a study claiming
that undocumented workers pay more in taxes than they receive
in government services:
http://archive.aclu.org/library/pbp20.html
\_ Headline at the Urban Institute homepage:
"What we're doing is departing from our historic policy:
first you were elderly, and only second, poor. Under
[the administration's Medicare reform proposal] we're
doing just the opposite, saying first,
you're poor, and then we don't really care if you're elderly.."
Unbiased source of information indeed. |
| 2003/6/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28856 Activity:very high |
6/28 Do all 2point driving offenses (in CA) stay on the record for 7years?
The CA Driving handbook is a little ambiguous, and couldn't find the
relevant section in the CA vehicle code. Is there a list of 36month
versus 7 year ones?
\_ does going 100+ stay for 3 or 7 years?
\_ 2 points, so stays on record for 7 years
\_ You are a good driver if you only have 1 point in 3 years. An
injury accident (2 points) should only count against you for
3 years no matter how long it stays on your record.
\_ No.
\_ Yes. http://www.aaa-calif.com/insurance/auto/discount.asp#gdd
Whether it stays on your record is not relevant for purposes
of insurance rates. It may be relevant for other purposes.
\_ no. nobody mentioned insurance.
\_ I did. "You are a good driver if..." So in 3 years
the OP doesn't have to sweat it if he stays clean.
The 7 years is not relevant. Maybe the OP can mention
if insurance is a concern for him.
\_ The 7 years matters to the DMV and the State of
California. Get too many points and they'll pull
your license and then you're fucked.
\_ STFW:
2 points stay for 7 years:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#2508
Common violations and points:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/vioptct.htm
\_ It doesn't specifically say that all 2point offenses
stay for 7 years. It says most violations such as foo,
bar, are 2 points and stay for 7 years.
\_ nevertheless, it does.
\_ what specific violation are you interested in?
\_ going 100+
\_ i think you are reading too much into the informal
language on the dmv site. Read it as a normal dumb
common-sense citizen, not as an overly-educated
Vehicle Code section 1808. As for how your insurance
co treats it -- ask them.
UCB alum. 2 points means 7 years on your record.
So, sorry, your 100mph isnt much different from
reckless driving -- you dont get a free pass.
Vehicle Code section 1808.
By the way, my cousin, non-citizen, was thrown in
jail when he tried to re-enter the USA after visiting
Hong Kong for chinese new year in Feb. because a 100mph+
ticket was issued to him 8+ years ago, but the
new post-9/11 federal database still had it, so dont
think such a ticket wont haunt you beyond 7 years.
He had cleared the ticket when he first got it, but
the Feds didn't care -- all they saw was that he
had a "record", so they detained him for almost 2 months
\_ The Feds are systematically destroying Americas
ability to conduct serious scietific collaborations
with this bullshit. There's a great rant about this
in the first few pages of Science this week. basically,
if we continue down the path of treating all foreigners
with suspiscion, even tenured faculty at top
universities, we will loose our position as the
uncontested scientific wold leader. That would
be very very bad. This is a very serious threat
to national security, and unfortunately, it comes
not from enemies, but from well-meaning but totally
moronic officials. As non-moronic Americans, it
is our responsibilty to fight this now, before
it's too late.
\_ If we don't let foreign scientists in without
scrutiny how will the Chinese ever catch up? We'd
have to open a whole new Federal branch to email
all the stuff! You know how expensive a network
pipe over the Pacific Ocean is? Or satellite
time in bulk? They'll have to raise taxes to
afford this new branch of government. I say let
them all in and make them pay for their own
espionage costs!
\_ random harassment!=scrutiny. you don't
know what the fuck you're talking about.
\_ Can you email me? I have questions about this.
-sagarwal
\_ If you were stupid enough not only to drive 100+ but to get caught
doing it you're too stupid to worry about points; you're too stupid
to drive; you're too stupid to continue living. Please stay off
the roads... and the sidewalks... and the grass.
\_ but by all means keep posting to the motd. |
| 2003/6/28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:28853 Activity:very high |
6/27 Landmark Studies Reveal Virtually All Of California's Population
Explosion Due To Immigration
http://www.capsweb.org/newsroom/press_releases/landmark_studies.html
Could it be that this is somehow related to the 30$ + billion
deficit?
\_ most states are having budget crisis now. compare to states
without immigration in large numbers or your hated democratic
governer. Most states had lots of money a few years ago
when the economy was doing well. They spent rather than saved
because that's what 99% of all politicians do, and now we all
pay the price. I live in a state with a fiscally conservative
republican govorner and no population growth for the last 10 years,
and we're totally fucked right now(well, ok, not as fucked as CA.)
\_ Maybe that "not as fucked as CA" part is the difference between
having an (R) vs a (D) in office.
\_ I'm sure there are alot of reasons, but mainly our bubble
wasn't as big a few years ago, so it didn't pop as hard.
Besides, this is just a small state (CT). BTW, Rowland is
currently under investigation for curruption.
\_ Or could it be the cause of our ever growing economy?
More people spend more money
\_ And pay more taxes.
\_ Ah, the inevitable "blame it on the immigrants" troll. Didn't
we get enough of this with Wilson?
\_ How is this a troll? I don't agree with the person, but it
seems like a reasonable attempt to discuss the issues.
\_ now this one is a better troll.
\_ Uh oh, someone said something you don't agree with! It
must be a troll! How dare anyone have an opinion or
espouse a political philosophy different from yours?
Diversity in opinion and thought is ok as long as every
one believes what you believe, eh?
\_ Uh, Wilson was against *ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS* not immigrants
in general. Illegal immigration was and still is a problem.
\_ No, that's due to Davis spending billions that we didn't have on
energy futures.
\_ And various give aways to special interests on the left such as
the prison guard unions and big acre farmers.
\_ I knew it! Those big landowners are all secretly communists,
right? Have you completely lost your mind? Prison guards
are another group of well known anarchists and socialists.
\_ Nice dodge but no cigar. Maybe next time you'll do better
at completely ducking the point, eh?
\_ Y'all rekon them furiners ain't payin' 'nof taxes compare to us
pau native folk?
\_ Because everyone to your right on the political spectrum is
obviously a backwoods southern hick stereotype. If you can't
debate them, insult and smear them. Very Clintonesque of you.
Hillary would be proud.
\_ Its a fricking joke. Do I have to add j/k after
my jokes so that people like you won't overreact?
(BTW, Buchanan-ites are probably the only people
further right on the political spectrum than me)
\_ Fuck you.
\_ You're on the motd; yes you do.
\_ well, it's better than deleting the thread. no matter how
annoying you find someones blather, you should admit that
they are above the untouchable scum mother**ckers we call
"motd censors." Besides, Clinton *was* a southern hick
stereotype. Can you name one instance in Bill Clinton's
carreer when he used stereotyping smear tactics? I just
saw him in an inteview saying that he thought trent lott
had been the victim of an unfair smear campaign. I'm pretty
sure you'll never hear bush say that about a democrat.
\_ Read just about any Hillary speech. Start with the VRWC
stuff and work your way forward.
\_ And *how* was this not a troll again?
\_ And again *how* is it possible for anyone who has different
political opinions from yours to *not* be a troll? I think
you're a new form of a troll. You're a meta-troll. You troll
about trolling.
\_ The older you get, the more you will realize idiots are ruining
our country for ours as well as future generations. -ax
\_ Yes. Who did you vote for the last several elections? Very few
of the candidates I voted for made it. And do you also vote in
the midterm elections? If you don't vote you don't count.
\_ The Federalists said the same thing about Jefferson. The
Confederates said the same thing about the Republicans.
\_ http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5271
The National Research Council found that in California, ... each
native household is paying about $1,178 a year in state and local
taxes to cover the gap between the services used by immigrant
households and their tax receipts.
\_ yeah, give Texas and the southern states back so that the native
north american people don't have to be called illegal immigrants,
and whose quality of life has eroded steadily since 1492.
\_ You know nothing about native americans or how they lived.
\_ What the illegal immigrant haters always forget is that those tax
dollars are more than offset by the incredibly cheap prices we
pay for fruits, vegetables and grains harvested by the ultra
cheap labor that illegal immigration makes possible. No American
citizen is willing to work for $5000 to $7000 dollars a year, yet
in order for you to pay the price that you want at the grocery
store, someone must do it. The next time you eat a strawberry,
think about the life of the person that picked it. Have you ever
picked strawberries for any length of time? Do you know how
backbreaking it can be? Now think about doing that for 12 hour
days, three months at a stretch, with no healthcare and no bathroom
breaks.
\_ Kick them all out and patrol the border properly and we'll have
safer streets, fewer prisons, and less disease. The tax savings
will more than make up for what might be a few pennies saved on
a basket of strawberries picked by criminals.
\_ next time you eat a strawberry, consider that some poor
illegal immigrant peed on it because he couldn't have a
bathroom break |
| 2003/6/27-30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28850 Activity:moderate |
6/27 Anti-Telemarketing List Opens for Registration
http://csua.org/u/3em
\_ link:donotcall.gov ( easier to remember than http://csua.org/dsfas )
\_ nononono! http://csua.org/fubar is the STANDARD! way to post motd urls!
\_ is this too good to be true?
\_ Yes. Not applicable for charities or political
organizations. -John
\_ Or phone companies. But at least one can get those
Chronicle pushers to stop calling.
\_ actually i thought it only applies to interstate
calling. Does the Chronicle pimp out their
telemarketing to another state?
telecommuting to another state?
\_ The federal rule may affect only interstate calls
but the recent CA state rule limits all calls.
\_ The FCC is going to police intrastate calls.
http://csua.org/u/3fd
\_ Political speech is constitutionally protected. For
example, communities that ban door-to-door solicitation
still have to allow "canvassing."
\_ a lot of people must be signing on. The web site keeps timing out.
I can't do a successful submission.
\_ Hit the CA one. It covers both:
<DEAD>nocall.doj.state.ca.us/enrollment.html<DEAD>
\_ My anti-telemarketing initiative involves GPS and cruise missiles.
Death to all telemarketers!
\_ If you though telemarketting was bad, just wait till this takes
\_ If I can hit the National Do Not Call Registry, do I need to
enroll through CA's?
\_ It was on the front page of slashdot today. Try again Monday.
\_ My anti-telecommuting initiative involves GPS and cruise missiles.
Death to all telecommuters!
\_ If you though telecommutting was bad, just wait till this takes
off (you won't be able to get any legit mail ever again):
http://www.avirubin.com/scripted.attacks.pdf |
| 2003/6/25-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:28830 Activity:high |
6/25 Asian-Americans have nothing to celebrate (Michelle Malkin )
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/935037/posts
\_ Yea, "diversity" pretty screwed up idea in American politics.
The only diversity that people can understand is skin color
while its really a lot more. If you define diversity
as characteristics that alter the social makeup of a student
body, it seems that race is one of the least important factors.
Stuff like religion, politics, personal experience is significantly
more important. But of course no one wants to promote real
diversity and only their own race's interests.
diversity but only shaping a school's ethinic makeup.
Sound familiar?
\_ Your point being?
\_ Here is perhaps a more balanced article, written by
someone asian, about Lowell and race-based admissions:
http://www.arc.org/C_Lines/CLArchive/story2_2_04.html |
| 2003/6/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28770 Activity:high |
6/19 http://caag.state.ca.us/donotcall \_ I joined the DMAs do not send junk mail list and reduced my junk mail by at least 2/3s -ausman http://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offmailinglistdave#regform \_ 1-888-5-OPTOUT. This will prevent all businesses to use your credit report for marketing purposes. \_ now if only there were a national donotsendmeyourfuckingjunkmail list. \_ I joined the DMAs do not send junk mail list and reduced my junk mail by at least 2/3s -ausman http://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offmailinglistdave#regform \_ thanks! does that help with stopping the credit card junk mail? thats the only stuff that *really* pisses me off, since I can't just throw it away without shredding it. also, most of the junk mail i get(besides the credit card shit) is addressed to "resident" or "occupant". \_ 1-888-5-OPTOUT. This will prevent all businesses to use your credit report for marketing purposes. \_ but only for a few years, which is lame. \_ That's not true. They mail you a form and you can choose not to allow your credit report to be shared for marketing purposes forever. Did you miss that part on the form? \_ actually, i just called the number, and you can opt out forever just using the phone. \_ <DEAD>nocall.doj.state.ca.us<DEAD> seems easier to remember \_ FabUlous. Thanks |
| 2003/6/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:28650 Activity:nil |
6/5 This is just bizarre:
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/6012988.htm
\_ even moreso:
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=12805&c=50 |
| 2003/6/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:28645 Activity:high |
6/5 Nine Illegal Aliens Arrested [working construction.
No Americans were willing work perhaps?]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/923023/posts
\_ At the primo rate of $50/day with no more chance of getting into
the union? Oh yeah, gotta jump on that job.
\_ HEY! No whining about our free market!
\_ A market where capital can move freely over borders but
labor cannot is not really free.
\_ They shouldn't arrest the illegals, just ship em south. They should
arrest the employers. That would quickly put an end to all this
illegal border crossing bullshit. |
| 2003/6/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:28633 Activity:very high |
6/4 U.S. property laws allow millions to thrive, prosper
http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/3234120p-3264116c.html
\_ WRONG! Its all because the evil oppressor polluter
gun-owner rapist white man raped, murdered and stole
the Native American's earth and foisted upon it a
vile capitalist materialist system designed to keep
the poor people down.
\_ I am curious. Does anyone but the guy who posted
this think it is funny? It was midly amusing
the first time, but it is pretty boring now.
\_ well the ridiculous thing about the above attempt
at comedy is that s/he's trying to be sarcastic,
but that is, more or less, the true story.
\_ This one is much better.
\_ "That's not funny!" --best punchline
\_ This is a nice story, but only half of it. Land reform,
aka The Homestead Act created the rural middle class,
while Labor allowed urbanites the chance to escape
poverty. Without legal protection, it would have
been unsustainable though, I agree with that.
\_ Hernando DeSoto is generally regarded a crack pot. and
I dont know if I would consider this "news"... his
views have been around for a while now, and I'm sure
there's tons of stuff about him on the web. While
many "objectivist" top-dog sympathizing libertarians
will no doubt orgasm at the site of this, he is
basically an economic advisor to latin american
politicians grasping at straws to save their economies
... and I think he's declining in popularity at that.
its just scary how much thsi philosophy has caught on.
\_ There is that passive tense again. 'Regarded' by whom
exactly?
\_ Ya know, regarded. By uhm people. People who uhm think
exactly like the poster does in his 'cell'. |
| 2003/6/2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:28605 Activity:very high |
6/1 PBS's Pontificator
http://csua.org/u/32t
\_ Ah, Bill Moyers... societal threat. Evil incarnate. A loose Liberal
boogieman. Blah, blah, blah. Sheesh, try again. You bore me,
conservative poster.
\_ Are you serious? Accuracy and disclore aren't important to you?
Is this what's become of 'liberals'?
\_ Please. When is the last time a casual liberal quoted Bill
Moyers to you? I find this motd-unworthy. BORRR-ring
\_ What does that have to do with anything? If Moyers is a
raving loon with conflicts of interest, being aired on PBS,
he should be nailed to the wall by everyone. Are you a NY
Times journalist?
\_ Are you as upset with Haig/Weinberger's World Business
Review? Also gets funding through PBS, also touts
itself as journalism, also has major conflict of interest
issues. --scotsman
itself as journalism, also has major conflict of
interest issues. --scotsman
\_ Yes.
\_ I haven't heard of it, but if what you say is true,
then yes I'd be just as upset. Do you have a link to
an article discussing it? --emarkp
\_ Because it's OPINION, not journalism. It's like getting
mad at Limbaugh because conservatives give him money.
\_ They don't. He has a contract to do his radio show
for $x. If he stopped doing his show or if his
ratings dropped, he'd get kicked off the air. Rush
is paid to bring in audience for advertisers. If
he was a leftists and brought in the same audience
he'd get the same money from the same people.
\_ He is still carried on many small radio
stations. The fact that 90% of the radio
stations are owned by three media
companies has more to do with the
lack of distribution.
\_ Not really true. The Jim Hightower show was
hugely popular, but ABC/Disney cancelled it.
\_ Apparently not popular enough for someone
else to pick up for profit. Funny how the
free market works.
\_ He is still carried on many small stations.
The fact that 4 companies control 90%
of the radio market has more to do with
him not being able to be heard by most
\_ Compationate conservative that you are, you should feel
better that they can now go to your local church.
Americans. Funny how the free market "works"
\_ actually it is 5 controlling 40% but hey,
why bring in facts? if he was popular,
the free market would sell his show. he
isn't so he gets banished to the outland.
\_ So, he doesn't do speeches for conservative
groups for money? Or give endorsements for money?
Or get paid for being part of a conservative
forum/think tank? Ooo. Never. Extra money? Ick.
\_ Not that I know of. Not that I know of. Not
that I know of. I do know that his current
contract is for $500m. That's 500 hundred
million dollars. I don't know how many years
it covers but I don't think length matters for
$500m. He doesn't need to do any of those
things or make "extra money". He golfs. If
you listened to his show, you'd know that.
\_ Sure it matters. You think it's a contract
without behavior clauses or rating limits?
If he's goes DUI and runs over a kid, that
contract vaporized. If he turn demo, ditto.
He's making money while he can do it.
\_ He's probably making $50m a year. You
seriously think he's going to waste his
time on some lame-o Clintonesque speaking
gig for $100k? You're a) nuts and b)
clearly not a listener of his show.
\_ the point is Fed tax dollars go to NPR, PBS, and Moyers.
\_ Less than 2% of NPR's operating budget comes from federal
funds.
\_ Good. Then they can do without it.
\_ Fed Tax dollars go into LOTS of things people disagree with.
Defense, ATF, Dept. of Education, etc. Should we ban Frontline
for showing things you disagree with?
\_ Fed tax dollars should not go into NPR anymore than they
should go to my local church.
\_ Yah.. wouldn't it be nice if there were a constitutional
several hundred billion dollar deficit. Helpless victims
want a nanny state, from cradle to grave, that someone else pays for.
-op
line between state and press? Then they might actually
have an interest in exposing gubmint lies.
\_ I'm with you on that.
\_ Compassionate conservative that you are, you should feel
better that taxes can now go to your local church.
\_ I'm not. I don't. They should go to neither. Thanks
\_ tax dollars should go to functions clearly
mandated by the Constitution, defense and ATF are enumerated.
Neither of these organizations demagogue.
\_ So there are nukes in Iraq? And we need those B-2s and
mini-nukes? And the Waco fiasco really wasn't part of a
failed publicity stunt? Ban the FBI, CIA, OSHA, EPA, and
DOE. Who cares about trying to evolve government? Let's
suck hard with the strict constitutionalists, re-enslave
the blacks and go back to an agrarian landowners society.
\_ Probably. Maybe, you'd be sorry if we did need them
and didn't have them. Evolve government? There's a
process for that which wasn't followed. Your last
comment is trollish nonsense. You were doing well until
you lost it and started spewing and frothing at random.
\_ Hmm, Lincoln was the first Republican president and
South was solidly democrat until the past decade and
a half.
\_ It was solidly Democrat BECAUSE Lincoln was a
Republican.
\_ whatever the reason, the Democrats were and
still are the party of southern white racists.
\_ It isn't nonsense. You're arguing against those
departments because it's not in the Constitution,
which is very strict intepretation. It's denies the
basis of a dynamic government and offers only one
that is set in a late 1700's world and mindset.
\_ nonsense = frothing about re-enslaving people.
you're being intentionally stupid. when you
stop the rhetorical dancing in the wind, we'll
have something to talk about.
\_ I did, you missed it. Strict interpretation
vs. evolving government. Try harder.
\_ Now you're beyond intentionally stupid and
just outright lying with the text right
there to show it. Amazing. You win. I'm
too stunned at your chutzpah to go on.
\_ You're right. I do win. HAHAHA! Watch
my superiority dance, clueless one.
\_ The mentality in this thread illusrates perfectly why we have a
several hundred billion dollar deficit. Helpless victims want a
nanny state, from cradle to grave, that someone else pays for.
Then have the audacity to display outrage when the government
intrudes further into our lives - never making the connection how
the government acquired the resources and ability to do so in the
first place. -op [formatd]
\_ No, I just didn't think the original post was really that
interesting. If you want to find a liberal scapegoat, find one
that people listen to and agree with to on a regular basis. And
tear them apart. Who REALLY cares about Bill Moyers?
\_ The problem with that is there isn't a liberal that people
listen to and agree with on a regular basis so we have to
make do bashing the extremists, the liars, the criminals and
the frauds.
\_ I thought the media was Liberal? What about them?
\_ As a class. No individuals worth naming. Just a large
shapeless blob of idiocy chanting the same mantra. It
doesn't matter which one you listen to because they're
all the same.
\_ So point out where they lie, where they're having
conflicts of interest, etc and go from there.
Attacking Moyers isn't really worth the effort. |
| 2003/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:28600 Activity:moderate |
6/1 Great Myths of the Great Depression
http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=4095
\_ http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/Timeline.htm
\_ thank you, both of you, for the interesting links.
\_ Amusing that government employment is included with
private sector. They also conveniently leave out FDR
stacking the entire Supreme Court. |
| 2003/5/27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:28560 Activity:insanely high |
5/26 I don't understand why people are opposed to raising taxes for
people who have more children. It is a fundamental question of
fairness. For example, primary and secondary education is funded
mostly by property taxes at the county and city level. Two couples
buy similary priced house and pay roughly the same amt of property tax.
One couple has 1 kid and another couple has 3 kids. The couple with
3 kids is using up more tax payer resources so why shouldn't they
pay more. We can't easily restructure the property tax system. And
everybody should chip in to make public education work regardless of
whether you have kids. But the people whoe use it more should pay
more.
\_ keeping kids in school lowers crime rates. Think about it as
social insurance. If you want to pay less in taxes for schools,
live in a low property value area. You get the idea.
\_ public education is a service to everyone. a better educated
populace (should) translate to a better and more productive
\_ because everyone who isn't a single male sysadmin making 6 figures
is a degenerate freeloader who should pay for their own damn
social services. haven't you been paying attention? are you
a commie?
\_ You can't argue about taxes like this. You need to state your
moral philosophy, including what you believe the inherent human
rights are. After you do this, the tax system will naturally
follow. Without doing this, you are just chewing the fat endlessly.
workforce. The benefit is not only to the family with kids.
So, we have decided (however reluctantly and increasingly
underfunded) to provide a publicly funded education system.
\_ What if you look at it this way: every kid is a future tax
resource. Each kid is likely to pay for his own education
in his life via taxes he pays. So why stick it to his parents,
who're kindly providing this future tax resource at great
expense already?
\_ because everyone who isn't a single male sysadmin making 6
figures is a degenerate freeloader who should pay for their
own damn social services. haven't you been paying attention?
are you a commie?
\_ what is wrong with Commie?
\_ maybe you missed the part where the Berlin Wall fell?
\_ Perhaps you forgotten your "facts" after
leaving Berkeley. The fall of the berlin
wall was a due to the uncontrollable
destructive, oppressive, exploitive,
racist, profiteering, non-collectivist,
anti-abortion, anti-worker, earth
and woman raping, genocide commiting,
firearms bearing, suv driving, slave
owing, gay-murdering, witch-hunting,
arab hating tendencies of theistic
judaea-christian greco-roman anglo-saxon
indo-european materialistic capitalist
millionare fat-cat pig dog vultures.
\_ After I left Berkeley I was free to express the
truth without fear of some club bearing, man
hating, unshowered butch lesbian trying to beat
me to death. Free at last! Free at last! Thank
God Almighty, I'm free at last!
\_ Perhaps you forgotten your "facts" after leaving
Berkeley. The fall of the berlin wall was a due to the
\_ I agree. uncontrolled capitalism of
the late 19th century causes the rise
of commies. the kindler, gentler
version advocated by liberuls
resulted in the fall of the commies.
\_ Oh you poor oppressed upper middle class
white men!
uncontrollable destructive, oppressive, exploitive,
racist, profiteering, non-collectivist, anti-abortion,
anti-worker, earth and woman raping, genocide commiting,
firearms bearing, suv driving, slave owing,
gay-murdering, witch-hunting, arab hating tendencies of
theistic judaea-christian greco-roman anglo-saxon
indo-european materialistic capitalist millionare fat-cat
pig dog vultures.
\_ After I left Berkeley I was free to express the truth
without fear of some club bearing, man hating,
unshowered butch lesbian trying to beat me to death.
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, I'm
free at last!
\_ you forgot the part about 'goat sodomizing
baby-murdering, gluttonous'
\_ I agree. uncontrolled capitalism of the late 19th
century causes the rise of commies. the kindler,
gentler version advocated by liberuls resulted in the
fall of the commies.
the children!", "family values" issue.
\_ Oh you poor oppressed upper middle class white men!
\_ Who here is upper middle class?
\_ Indeed. Growing up, my folks' income was marginal poverty
level. I got through Cal on merit- and need-based scholarships,
loans and work. In 2000 I paid of the last of my student
loans and cashed in stock options--and paid more in taxes than
my parents annual income the year I started Cal. (Oh, and I'm
still in CA forking money over in state taxes, so I believe the
investment has paid off.)
\_ Are you voting Republican yet?
\_ If he's smart, he is.
\_ Yes--I have been since I was 18.
\_ I never paid enough tax for myself in CA before I had to
leave in order to get a job. Damned economy. I liked CA.
\_ CA just got a few billion in bailout (2.x billion?) from the
latest budget plan. Everyone in the US subsidized CA this
year.
\_ Only fair since CA pays more in taxes than it gets
back almost every year.
\_ Too late for me. I had to leave CA a year ago. And
$2G is a drop in the bucket of CA's problem. Further,
it won't help anyone get a job, it'll just help keep
the CA gov't going.
\_ they have that. it's called one-child policy in China. while
nothing wrong with tax policies to encourage certain birthrate
pattern, I don't like the way you talked about "fairness"
in tax policies. The tax policies is never fair for anyone.
\_ there's no such thing as a "fair" tax policy. even a flat tax
will hurt lower income people more than higher income people. it
is time for you to understand that life just isn't fair. once you
fully absorb this concept, you'll find the rest of your life is
much more enjoyable. sometimes you gotta break an egg to etc etc.
I've got no kids, I'm married and plan to not have kids and don't
have a problem with the current system.
\_ "fairness" is an important criterion for designing and evaluating
a tax system, however it is not the only criterion. I tend to
agree with you that there is too much tax benefits for breeding
like pigs (dependant, child tax credit, etc., etc.). However,
you are going to be very lonely on this cause it's a "think about
the children!", "family values" issue. both the democrats and
the republicans are suckers for these.
\_ No, actually it's about spending money on them now so they don't
break into my home later. Prisons are expensive.
\_ do it with progressive tax which doesn't encourage breeding
as much as child tax crdit. or give child tax credit to
the first two kids only. if you can't educate your kids
well, stop breeding, or at least, don't expect me to
subsidize your breeding.
\_ Right -- it's much better to subsidize a larger police
force and much more extensive and overcrowded jails after
those kids break into your home and rape your wife when
they become adults.
\_ education hasn't worked. The current system already
subsidizes the poor. How has that worked out? Kids are
still dropping out. Throwing money at the problem
hasn't done anything. Washington DC has the highest
tax burden of any region. It still has one of the
highest murder rates in the country. Taking away these
subsidies and steralizing people on welfare will get
rid of the problem once and for all. No bad kids, no
problem. Also sterlizing illegal immigrants arrested
in the U.S. Just to cover all the bases.
\_ Actually, all tax laws in CA are hard to change. You need the
magic 2/3+1 supermajority to pass tax laws. Perhaps you're thinking
of charging a "fee" for use of public education? Think about how
hard that is for the UC and CSU system and multiply it by 10.
\_ Not hard at all. Didn't they just raise UC rates by $500 or
more? I also read summer students got hit with a bonux $150
charge only a few days before summer classes started. -alum
\_ No you don't. They changed the law, or didn't you hear to only
require 55%.
\_ A judge can change the law whenever he feels like it. It used to
be the case that local property taxes went to local schools.
Judicial fiat changed that. |
| 12/25 |
| 2003/5/20 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:28495 Activity:high |
5/20 http://www.rrstar.com/localnews/your_community/rockford/20030520-4814.shtml More right wing nutters who don't understand free speech. \_ Dear Mr. Pot, this is mr. Kettle. \_ God Bless America!! \_ You have to sound more enthusiastic to be a believable liberal. \_ I'm working on it. I've got the basic vocabulary down and I got the talking points off the fax each morning. If I can nail the delivery I'll be able to drool with the best of 'em! -op \_ First of all... "nutter"? What are you some kind of fucking limey or something? \_ aww, but the speaker made the little Education graduate CRY! \_ This rocks. We need more liberals that can make the conservatives cry like that. \_ Because that will convince her to vote your way? Okey dokey! Good planning! Because you can convince people of the correctness of your philosophy by abusing them. I like it! \_ Why not? This has been conservative-talk-show-host strategy for the past decade or so. The approach has won these, er, entertainers, a legion of fans, many of whom post regularly on the motd. Go Michael Savage! \_ The radio personalities that bring you to tears aren't making new conservative voters which is all that counts. Stop crying about Rush and Savage and whoever and *do* something to convince people of the correctness of your philosophy and you'll make it happen. Upsetting voters never got anyone anything. Savage is light entertainment. Sometimes he's even correct. If you say enough stuff, that will happen sometimes. Rush is nothing more than repeating RNC talking points. There isn't anything original in his show. It's 100% party platform stuff. Shows like theirs are not at all where conservative strength is. --conservative \_ Your argument is tangent as well as incorrect. \_ This is akin to giving an Oscar to Michael Moore and then not expecting him to make a political statement. Get over it. \_ and I imagine all the Academy members would throw their caps into the air, go back to live with their parents, then look for jobs. |
| 2003/5/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:28487 Activity:high |
5/19 Here's one vote for extermination of the human race. Its obvious
that we just can't live up to the standards set by the CSUA motd,
so we're better off with universal suicide. Who knows, maybe
evolution will produce an intelligent race less concerned with
narcissism and self-aggrandizement.
\_ Tch, tch... Where were you during the nuke war fantasies of the
early 80's? Po' chile, missed out on it?
\_ They weren't fantasies. The world was almost destroyed several
times from the mid 60's until The Wall fell.
\_ Compare and contrast that to Sodans almost getting laid.
\_ Another time coming up with the threats from North Korea.
\_ NK? Piffle. That's not world destruction. At worst,
they'll hit SK or Japan once or twice. Their odds of
hitting SD/LA/SF are about zero given that they've never
tested anything with that range and don't claim it. After
the maybe nuke Japan/SK, we launch and wipe them off the
planet, everyone sheds a tear, makes a pretty speech at
the UN, life goes on for the other 6+ billion people. |
| 2003/5/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:28485 Activity:very high |
5/18 Thank you Gray Davis, who increased state employement by 30%, and
who rewards his primary contributor, the Prison Unions, with fat
pay raises.
Vehicle-tax plan praised - Fee hike would spare drastic local cuts
http://www.recordnet.com/daily/news/articles/051803-gn-4.php
\_ I'm really tired of all this budget bullshit. Is there not a
single state that believe in fiscal responsibility? Any state
that require balanced budget in their constitution?
\_ The last time California ran budget surpluses during a boom
time, we had a "taxpayers revolt" and ended up with Prop 13.
We get what we deserve here. Every recession is like this.
Remember Pete Wilson's big round of tax increases?
\_ No, we had prop 13 because people were losing their houses.
I was here and I remember it.
\_ People were not losing their homes. That was all
bullshit.
\_ Idiot. I was there. Get out of the ivory tower and
join the real world where real people are hurt or helped
everyday by the real decisions real politicians make.
\_ I was there too. Everyone wants to pay
less taxes, but the money for things like schools
has to come from someplace. School quality in
California, which had been in the top 10% of
the country, plummeted and has stayed low since.
How old were you when this happened? No way can
you remember what was really going on. If you
go back and look at the newspaper archives, you
will find one or two people on fixed incomes who
supposedly lost their homes, out of a state with
a population of 20M. You live in a fantasyland.
\_ Yeah all the neighbors who put their houses up for
sale and left the state were just figments of my
deranged and aged mind. CA has many reasons for
being at the bottom of the school rankings, not
teaching the "three Rs" anymore is the primary
reason.
\_ And now people are losing their houses because they can't
afford the property tax that's subsidizing the people who
are benefitting from prop 13. Irony is delicious. Munch.
\_ The problem with prop 13 is that while it was
motivated by a need to protect a primary residence
from fluctuations in the real estate market, it
was written to include *all* property. For humans,
frozen contribution rates on a primary residence
are a good way to apportion the total tax burden
over the life of the taxpayer. For coporations and
other entities that never die, Prop 13 is a nightmare
that has only just started crushing our economy.
\_ Actually it's been crushing it a while. Each
economic downturn just emphasizes it. When the
economy recovers, it'll be forgotten again. After
you finish the cookie, you'll feel right as rain.
\_ Can someone explain what prop13 is?
\_ Quickie version: In 1978, property taxes
assessed according to 1976 prices with a max
+2% change until prop sold. Then it's
reassessed and taxed at current price. Note 2%
is below COLA and certainly way below real
estate increase. Plus, to raise taxes takes
2/3 vote of the legistlature.
\_ Only because we learned the term "double
digit inflation" under Jimmy Carter. In any
sane world, the COLA would be about 2%.
\_ Communist!
\_ Ford invented double digit inflation.
Carter just carried on the tradition.
\_ Ford? Oh pleeeeeaaaaase. It's the
only thing the news talked about for
his entire term. Oh yeah, that and
the Hostage Crisis. |
| 2003/5/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/CC] UID:28434 Activity:moderate |
5/13 I am just being a lazy ass, so, I'll just ask my question here. In
California, does a divorcing couple split up all of the debts owed by
either or both of them just as they do with their wealths? Such as
student loans, home equity line, credit cards, etc.
\_ Yes. Wait, no. Maybe.
\_ I eagerly await BDG's answer.
\_ Stuff earned during marriage is split. Stuff not earned during
marriage which was kept apart such as student loans is not.
\_ After 10 years, I think everything is split.
\_ So she'll make sure to rack up a lot of debt before she
dumps you, since 50% of it won't be her problem and the
alimony will cover the other half. Her bf will keep her
living large and you'll share a studio with your divorced
college buddy.
\_ california hasn't had alimony for eons
\_ "Spousal support"
http://www.divorcenet.com/ca/alimony.htm |
| 2003/5/14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health/Disease/General] UID:28432 Activity:nil |
5/13 Stock up on Oreo's while they are still legal:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/12/OREO.TMP
\_ They are racist, its a good thing. |
| 2003/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28345 Activity:nil |
5/5 I say we invade Israel for possesing weapon of massive destruction
and consistant records of violation of international laws, and
aggression toward its neighbors.
\_ And being the only mid east state to allow arabs to vote and the
mid east state responsible for the fewest arabs deaths in the last
50 years and the only democratic mid east state and the only mid
east state to support the US in the UN general assembly more than
20% of the time. Those jew bastards, I so hate having such a solid
democratic ally in such an ugly part of the world. We should ally
ourselves with peace loving terrorist dictatorships like the PLO.
\_ Democracy has NOTHING to do with it. Lighten up. Look at
our OTHER allies: Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? UAE? what do they have
in common? Absolute Monarchy! And... if anything, *IRAN* has
a democracy! It just that their democracy is very different
than what we got over here.
\_ You can't have a democracy if there is no freedom of ideas,
freedom of the press, etc. If you're too progressive, you'll
get the death sentence in Iran...
-dated an Iranian, I guess that makes me an expert.
\_ It's really simple, Sam: If the other side has suicide bombers,
all bets are off.
\_ Stupid logic trap. Suicide bomber are only thing they got.
without it, Israel will never even consider return land
which they conquered. |
| 2003/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:28192 Activity:high |
4/22 http://www.kfwb.com/news_local.asp?displayOption=&contentGUID={8DCDFABA-C25A-42B9-B367-752F5C1F8FFD}&groupName=KFWB%20Main%20Headline&siteGUID={3B62BF55-4A93-48E6-A45D-6A495DC423AD} California going to run out of money and start handing out IOU's to vendors. Thank God we have Democrats running the state or we'd *really* be in trouble! We need people with guts in office who have what it takes to raise taxes without cutting any programs. \_Yeah, let's raise taxes, that'll really help... What's the deal with Northern Californians anyway, are you guys just stupid or what? Get out of your commie state-run mentality. The reason why we're in the mess we're in is because of stupid half-assed policies like deregulating only half the energy system, having some of the highest corporate taxes in the union, and anti-business laws like dissallowing drilling off shore completely with no recourse for other income. Get back under your anti-war, anti-business, anti-free market rock and let someone who has a clue run the state. And for crying out loud, stop voting in dumbassess like Pelosi, she should be muzzled and shot. \_ Same thing happened back when pete wilson was governor... \_ Yeah, good comparison - it was a one-party system back then, too. Know the diff betwen slow economic times cuz of cycles and one's own stupid decisions. |
| 2003/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28184 Activity:insanely high |
4/21 Further evidence of how fucked up California, in
particular SF, has become (a multicultural utopia).
Bill would force hiring of cross-dressers
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32177
-ax
\_ and the Klan has to hire them black people to do their organizing!
\_ No bible shop is complete without a flaming queen cross dresser.
\_ If you don't like California so much, why not move to a place more
to your liking? I hear they kick some faggot ass up in Laramie,
Wyoming.
\_ Funny how when the other side says to folks, "America, love it
or leave it", you lefties get upset but it's ok for you to
blather out little lines like that.
\_ Because "Love it or leave it" has an implicit threat. His
question is formed as just that. A question.
\_ good point!
\_ I know you are but what am I?
\_ A hypocrite if you're a "California, love it or
leave it!" leftist.
\_ I also love how you completely missed the
reference to Matthew Shepard.
\_ I didn't miss it. I ignored it because it was
meaningless in this context. It may come as a
shock to you but some people who don't share
your politics read newspapers and watch cnn.
\_ You don't know jack shit about what was here before 1960.
Read a little history. This place has been a little different
since the first tent went up in Yerba Buena. Of course straight
idiots have decorated it from time to time.
-- born here, been here.
\_ actually that's not true.
\_ You have no sense of history. Kerouac and the rest of
the beatniks (a term coined by Herb Caen) were here in
the 50's, and were attracted to the area by its alternative
culture. -tom
\_ Ding! Indeed. Also, read up on the suffrage movement,
the hallucinigen researchers in the 30's and 40's, etc.
My family has lived here since well before the turn of
the century. California has always been "progressive",
though I think a better term is "tolerant." --scotsman
\_ Really? Tell that to the natives, the Spanish and
the Mexicans.
\_ Okay, granted, my use of the term "always" was
ill-advised, but this comment is irrelevant to
the current discussion. --scotsman
\_ Not if you're a native, or Spanish or Mexican.
The fact is this state has only been so-called
'progressive' if you're part of a big group that
has votes, money, power, or some other form of
control over the government and media.
\_ California has been the land of the risk-takers and the eccentric
since the gold rush in 1849. For example, Joshua Norton, a failed
speculator on the rice market, flipped his lid in the 1850s and
declared himself Norton I, Emperor of the United States and
Protector of Mexico, becoming the first famous homeless person
in San Francisco. Tourists from all over the country knew his
name. He minted his own money, dissolved the union in the Civil
War, and declared there should be a suspension bridge connecting
Oakland and San Francisco, at the time a ridiculous notion.
He also was known for stopping a race riot, making him one of
the earliest Bay Area activists. -brain
\_ The gold-mad and profiteers are a big part of the story, but
the Mormon settlement Brennan created amidst the Russian
holdings can't be ignored when trying to understand how we
found enough stability to keep the region from tearing
itself apart.
\_ What does some random insane guy from the 1800s have to do with
modern politics in CA?
\_ Not just any random insane guy. Over 10,000 people attended
his funeral.
\_ Yes, that still has nothing to do with anything regarding
politics in CA in the last century.
\_ HISTORY HAS NO EFFECT UPON THE PRESENT! NOTHING
HAPPENED BEFORE 1900! HISTORY IS A LIE!
\_ What's 1900? This is the year "03" and there
aren't any non-positive years, right?
\_ Idiot, don't put words in my mouth. I said no such
thing and claiming it in ALL CAPS doesn't make it so.
The funeral attendance for one insane guy from 150+
years ago has *nothing* to do with modern politics in
this state. That is at best a minor footnote in the
history of this state. Why do I respond to such
infantile noise anyway?
\_ They already have laws like this in much of Europe and somehow
the sky hasn't fallen in there. -ausman
\_ Really? Seen the unemployment rate in Germany and many other
EU countries? Their economies are wrecked. Ours is doing
fantastically well by comparison. Not only that but we have the
additional burden of essentially being the EU military. Let's
bring the troops home, let the EU defend themselves and see
what happens. I bet the sky falls.
\_ not discriminating against cross dressers leads to
the economy falling apart?
4-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
\_ Nice try. Go check the unemployment stats. I'll explain
since you insist on being intentionally stupid: having an
endless array of laws that restrict and over control the
economy leads to inefficiencies which leads to a poor
economy and high unemployment rates. See the Soviet
Union for a great example of what should have been a
power house economy collapsing in on itself due to
over control and lack of incentive.
\_ Hm, I suspect that you're neglecting to take
into account that the Soviet Union was a massive
military state. I'd be willing to bet that had more
to do with it's complete collapse than 'over control'.
-mice
\_ The US was also a massive military state during the
same period of time. Yet they collapsed and the
US only grew stronger.
\_ Not really. I can probably dredge
up numbers if you care, but the soviet union
was maintaining an active wartime economy
for decades. Compare the relative sizes of
the militaries for the US and Soviet Union
in the late 80's. If my memory serves
correctly (at least wrt to armor units) the
Soviets had NATO outnumbered by a factor of
3-1 or something obscene like that. As a side
note, I don't think the US has had a wartime
economy since WWII, though I'm probably
mistaken. You might also want to recall that
the degree of corruption was obscene and
certainly didn't help.
\_ cross-dressing laws are like communism? go
fucking read atlas shrugged five more tiems or
something
\_ I'm done responding to the intentionally stupid.
If you don't have a real response, don't bother.
I've been trolled enough by you and have given up
trying to draw you into a real conversation on the
topic.
\_ I'll take that bet.
\_ If you can get the troops home and get the EU to pay for
their own defense I'd vote for you for President and
happily concede the bet.
\_ Don't kid yourself. GDP/hour worked has been increasing
faster in Western Europe than in the US for over a
generation. They also have more free time, longer,
healthier lives and a more even income distribution. The
US unemployment figures only look good because 2% of
our working age population is in prison and another
2-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
the official statistics. Germany and France are running
favorable trade surpluses and have a smaller government
deficit. I agree with you about bringing the troops
in Europe home, though. We cannot afforde to subsidize
European defence any longer. -ausman
\_ Do you have figures for GDP/hour worked? Not the rate of
increase but the raw value, like $x/1hour? What's x?
Rates aren't that interesting if it'll take 50 years to
catch up.
\_ Unemployment in Germany in >25% in many areas (e.g.
Berlin). The only commercially viable area is Bavaria.
Most of Europe enforces a maximum work week of
35-40 hours to keep unemployment down - this is a sign
of a strong economy? French and German
pension liabilities are
well in excess of their GDPs, and in France between
1/3 and 1/2 of all children under 10 are Muslim.
Europe is economic powerhouse, indeed. Their are
Muslim slums in France where the police do not ever
go, they have lost complete control of these areas. |
| 2003/4/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:28119 Activity:nil |
4/14 Mallard Fillmore (conservative policital comic) claimed
today that when Reagan lowered taxes, revenue doubled.
Is that true? If so, how is that possible?
\_ wow you actually think things in Mallard Fillmore
are true? mf is a piece of crap that comics page editors
are contractually obligated to print to balance
doonesbury. - danh
\_ No idea if it's true but the idea is that due to lower taxes people
and business have more money available to spend in the economy
instead of throwing it away to the government thus making more
taxable transactions occur. Imagine if the tax rate was 100%. Who
would bother working? If it was 0% people would keep more of what
they earned and spend more but then we wouldn't have any government
services. The key is to find the right balance. We're still
looking.
\_ Right, but lowering taxes while massively increasing defense
spending (and the deficit) doesn't do any good at all. The
increases in interest rates that result more than offset the
positive effects of the tax cuts.
\_ I like to look at defense spending as wealth redistribution
that benefits engineers among many others.
\_ For one thing, that doesn't address the offsetting effect
of higher interest rates and huge federal debts. For
another, the positive economic effects of defense spending
are completely overrated. Rather than creating investment
for products that create further positive economic benefits
(for example, building a delivery truck which allows a new
business to make deliveries), defense spending only creates
products that blow things up.
\_ Gee, you're arguing for general effects, and I'm just
glad that I'm getting some pork barrel from the
government. Yes, there are negative general
consequences, but those negative effects are paid for
by everyone. So long as the benefits that I share
with a smaller group outweigh the negatives shared
with everyone, I still win.
\_ getting your econ data from a really lame comic strip
is not recommended.
http://csua.org/u/d18 - danh
\_ and even more!
<DEAD>www.boss-tweed.com/mallard/mallardindex.html<DEAD> - danh
\_ revenue doubling is probably fiction. total tax revenue did
generally increase in the years after the the reagan tax cut
of '81. the percentage of tax paid by the upper bracket
increased also. however, it's silly to talk about tax revenue
purely in terms of the effect from tax cut. there are a lot of
other things happening that affect total revenue more. |
| 2003/4/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28073 Activity:nil |
4/11 Do you really think Democracy will work in Iraq? What if everyone
votes to have another form of government? |
| 2003/4/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:27959 Activity:very high |
4/2 Show your opposition to secret courts in the US: http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=12219&c=110 Oppose knee-jerk "victims' rights" amendment to Constitution (especially if you're registered in California) http://www.aclu.org/CriminalJustice/CriminalJustice.cfm?ID=9955&c=52 \_ Yawn.... \_ Bush stole my evil rights and all I got was a long dirt nap. \_ we doing this for the sake of democracy and human right for all. \_ Bush stole my civil rights and all I got was a long nap. \_ Blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. This whole thing is just troll bait from the start. |
| 2003/3/24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27829 Activity:high |
3/24 Continuing the Electoral College thread. Say the Presidential
election was to be decided by popular vote from now on. Would
candidates even bother campaigning in states like New Mexico
or Idaho? Bush would have also spent much more time campaigning
in California and Gore would have spent more time campaigning
in Florida.
\_ Probably not. So what? You think it makes sense for votes in
Wyoming to count for more than votes in California? -tom
\_ Yes. It was a founding principle. It would be nice if each
electoral vote were determined by district too, with the winner
of the state getting the 2 extra. If you want to change what's
been in place for over 200 years, go for it. You know the proc.
\_ Heard of protecting the minority against tyranny of the
majority?
\_ That's a red herring, unless you think "People from
Wyoming" are a minority group in need of protection. -tom
\_ Of course. They represent rural interests.
Another example - If minority interests are not
protected, every drop of the colorado river
might have been diverted to Los Angeles.
\_ like I said, a red herring. -tom
\_ We are talking about Electoral College
in general right? You do not believe that
people living in less densely populated
areas and less densely populated states
often have interests different and in
conflict with those living in major
urban centers?
\_ I believe there are hundreds of different
groups with different interests in the US, and
that "rural people" do not deserve special
protection, compared to, say "black people" or
"men". -tom
\_ Except that the former is written into the
constitution and the latter isn't.
\_ well, actually, the latter is as well.
The purpose of the electoral college was
not to protect the interests of rural
voters, and it's silly to suggest that
it should be. -tom
\_ Sure they do, but why should their votes
count for more? -!tom
\_ someone else said before: it isn't that they
count for more. it's to make sure they count
at all. they still barely count as it is.
\_ yeah, that must be why 80-90% of the
water in California goes to farmers, they
get screwed because we elect our
governor democratically. -tom
\_ Why don't you read what the writers of the Constitution
thought about democracy and the parallel events in France.
\_ I didn't see the earlier thread so excuse me if this was said before
but this is a republic (or close to it), not a democracy. It's all
nice to talk about democratic ideals but you can't run a country of
any real size that way. To my knowledge there are no true
democracies right now (or anything close) and haven't been since the
Greeks experimented with it and even theirs was a limited form.
\_ every democratic nation in the world, except for us, chooses
its president/prime minister on the basis of popular vote.
No one else sees a need for an "electoral college." -tom
\_ Under the current Electoral College system, California is worth
so many more votes than Wyoming that the effect is virtually
the same. The way you beat the California edge is by winning
a coalition of Mid-West States that vote along similar lines
and bring in more votes combined. The EC only extended reasonable
protections when the population was small: Rhode Island's
guaranteed 2 votes were worth something when the total vote tally
was in the low hundreds. If you want true rural representation,
allocate EC votes to voting districts, not winner-takes-all. |
| 2003/3/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27825 Activity:very high |
3/24 Michael Moore is a fat whiny twit, and a not particularly bright or
witty one at that. I thought I should point that out. -John
\_ I doubt anyone was particularly surprised that he took time
to speak his mind (as that's what his career is based on),
and I thought it was pretty nifty for him to invite his fellow
documentarians up on stage with him. As for the rest, I can
understand why you'd say that, and I can also see why people
think otherwise. He earned a lot of cred with "Roger and Me."
--erikred
\_ I think it's pretty silly that everyone criticises hollywood
celebrities for using their "soapbox" of fame to get whatever
message they may have out. yes, they're mostly idiots. but it's
the press's fault that they treat what hollywood people say
as news. what if they treated everything we say on the motd as
news? I realize that Moore is not part of hollywood exactly,
but people have been making a stink about this issue recently,
and i think it's relevant.
\_ Hey, he gets his opinion, I get mine. And why voicing an
opinion about his personality constitutes a judgment on any
"issue" is beyond me.
\_ sort of like you.
\_ Hey, great point. You're pretty funny. Do you sign your
posts, or do you just make kneejerk anonymous digs? Do you
think dumbshit cowards like you deserve anything but scorn?
Sad pathetic fuck. -John
\_ I think Moore acted like an idiot too. I mean it may be
a war fought on "fictitious" reasons, but Bush won the
election fair and square, nothing fictitious about that.
That Bush is a moron doesn't change that fact.
\_ I respectfully disagree: The number of votes by which
Bush "won" was so slight as to be well within the
the statistical margin of error for an election of
this size. Further, machinations by Republican
appointees to the Supreme Court made a controversial
decision that lent legititmacy to an otherwise shady
outcome. I don't expect that to sway you, but I want
you to know that I disagree. --erikred
\_ Well put. I agree. - some other guy
\_ He won, period. Every reasonable vote count since
has come to the same conclusion. The Supreme Court
simply preempted the state legislature and expedited
a foregone outcome. The Florida Supreme Court severly
overstepped its delegated powers and deserved to be
smacked down. The relevant USSC decision was 7-2.
The legal opinion is available, search for it.
Whether Bush won by 500 votes or 50,000 is irrelevant.
No president has had a majority of votes since Reagan.
\_ Keep towing that line.
\_ And if you're feeling frisky, you can toe
that line too.
\_ Recounting all of the ballots in Florida would
have led to a Gore victory, according to NYT,
Washington Post, et al. Or is that not a
"reasonable count" in your definition, since
it does not give the conclusion that you
desire?
\_ Go read the legal opinions and decisions.
Don't demagogue from a point of ignorance, at
least be intellectually honest and research
it yourself. USSC decision 7-2. The same
thing happened to Nixon against Johnson.
Nixon chose not to litigate it.
\_ Got the decision. More specious was
whether the Supreme Court should have
reviewed the case at all.
Also, the number of votes is important
to our claim of being a democratic
country and opens the discussion for
the need for severe electoral reform.
\_ Electoral reform, for what?
Do you understand the point of
the electoral college
or why Senators, until Wilson, were
elected by state legislators? Please,
again, to be intellectually honest
with yourself learn about the
electoral college and read the legal
opinions.
\_ do you understand why no other
democracy uses an electoral
college? -tom
\_ none as old as our's.
\_ Yes. The EC is what gives
states equal footing in the
national discourse. It allows
for equal representation of
ideas in our REPUBLIC (not
a democracy).
\_ Could it be because we are not
nor were ever meant to be a
democracy?
\_ We have the opportunity
to have an educated
electorate vote in
free elections for
elected representatives.
Times have changed since
1776. It's time we
changed with them. Thus
the call for reform.
"One thing, however, is certain. Although we may never know with
complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's
presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear.
It is the nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian
of the rule of law. I respectfully dissent." -Justice Stevens
(writing for the 4 dissenting judges who voted against the
decision awarding the election to Bush, not 2, like you imply)
\_ This was not the relevant decision. There were two decisions handed
down, one 5-4, the other 7-2. |
| 2003/3/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27745 Activity:nil |
3/18 Just curious. The person who claimed the US would be backing off the
war noise over the next several weeks and how you "told us so!!!!":
do you still believe your earlier statements? I'm the one who said
about a week ago that this coming weekend would be the start.
\_ When the bombs drop, I'll admit I was wrong. I wasn't trying
to troll either.
\_ is your point simply that behaving irrationally, or bluffing,
are effective means of diplomacy?
\_ Whoever said it was effective? Anyways, I still think the
U.S. won't do anything until it gets support from Russia,
France, and China. I wouldn't be surprised if the troops
sit there for a month waiting for Iraq to surrender
(which it won't).
\_ You are living in the past. Many people fail to
understand Bush. He is not a complex man, what you see
is what you get. Unlike Clinton, he means what he says.
\_ at least I had a job when Clinton was in office.
\_ As an intern?
\_ I miss the intern days. The WH was so much more
fun when we took government seriously and we
smoked out and nailed all the interns and stroke
of the pen, law of the land... sigh. Oh for the
dotcom days when we all had bubble jobs based on
VC money with no business plans.
\_ What I see is a moron. Is that what I get? He could
have gotten much more support for the war, and made it
much easier for American troops and tax payers if he
and his underlings just learn some basic diplomatic
skills.
\_ Could he have? France has been obstructing US
efforts to control Iraq the whole time.
\_ So you figure he could've gotten the votes in from
France/Russia/China how exactly? Do you understand
how diplomacy works? To get their vote in a useless
body (the UN), we'd have to buy them off with
something that has real value. You're so smart, how
about I give you my vote at the next CSUA meeting and
in exchange you give me 50 bucks. That sounds good
to me and you'd show good diplomacy. I'd not veto
your resolution to oppose the war or something.
\_ I am not referring to getting votes, but
generating bad vibes all over. Even in terms
of getting votes, if the Bush administration has
done it smarter instead of like a gung-ho cowboy,
he may very well have gotten enough votes to
force a French veto rather than having to
withdraw the resolution. Even magazines like the
Economist which openly supported the war thought
Bush and his underlings screwed up the diplomacy
big time.
\_ Ok, I'll buy that. Yes, there are some bad
vibes. Maybe it could've been better, maybe
not. Either way I believe the French were hell
bound to veto anything that would had a trigger
clause in it. I believe that because they said
so so many times. The WH reaction to that was
too flustered but in the end most countries
either already liked/hated us and will continue
to do so as before. The long term effect on
how much any other country likes/hates us is
about zero because this isn't a play ground.
\_ we got UN support in Afghanistan, and in
Iraq last time, so the assertion that
France was going to veto stuff just because
they "don't like us" is not only absurd, it's
contradicted by history. -tom |
| 2003/3/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27709 Activity:high |
3/15 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/14/moran.remarks "If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this." \_ is it really necessary to have two motd threads on this topic at the same time? \_ Jews should fight their own wars, it's nearly time the started. \_ yes, because the next point is "Did anyone see the dateline on NBC where they talked about how ashcroft && his zionistic party have been trying to get a "friendly" white house adminis. since the early 80s? And now we have to take an in increasing "fight israel's wars for them" stance as part of what is now called the "Bush Doctrine". \_ Jews should fight their own wars, it's nearly time they started. and without any "aid". \_ J00s 0wn0rz j00! \_ that aid is the only thing keeping israel from crushing all their neighbors who want them dead. they did just fine without any aid for several decades. as a pro-zionist i think they'd be better off not selling their souls for american money and doing unto their enemies what their enemies have been trying to do to them for more than half a century. \_ Isreal was the focal point for the Cold War in the Middle East. All of the conflicts were, at least in part, proxy wars between the US and the Soviets. \_ ok, ok, let's just get it over with (again): we all hate jews. there. doesn't that feel better to just say it? i know i feel better about hating jews now. you should too. \_ People forget that France did aid the fledgling state of Israel with fighter jets first. \_ I don't think Israel would go on a crushing rampage if we cut all our aid to them. Their economy right now is a bunch of crap and they have a couple of million impoverishered Palestinians with little to no economic future camped right next door. |
| 2003/3/10 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27644 Activity:high |
3/9 What's peoples' general view of the economic situation in California
right now, specifically regarding the technology/job market? This
seems like an interesting place to ask (lots of people with academic
backgrounds working in the industry). I'm curious because we're
generally considered to be about 6 months behind the US cyclically,
and I'm interested in getting an idea of how people feel about the
economy right now. Bottomed out? Getting worse/better? -John
\_ If we start dropping bombs, we'll head for a bottom. within
a quarter or so, we'll reach that bottom.
\_ nonsense. the economy is waiting for the war to be over before
anyone is willing to spend money on anything. business hates
uncertainty.
\_ I started job search maybe 3 weeks ago. Things are still 'bad',
but nowhere near as bad as they were 6-9 months ago when other
friends of mine were looking. -dans
\_ ditto here
\_ California economy will be in the toilet until Bush
is out of office.
\_ California economy is in the toilet as long as Davis is in
office.
\_ 1998-2000? Seemed pretty good to me.
\_ Hello? It was based on VC money and lies.
\_ I think the Bay Area is still in aweful shape. Of the unsolicited
resumes that I sent out, they all got suck into the blackholes; no
responses.
\_ maybe your resume sucks?
\_ There's still room to drop before going back up. Lots of problems
still with housing costs and lower wage nonprofessionals plus the
VCs aren't gonna get over their bubble anxiety attack. If the war
goes as predicted, the Bay Area won't see a return to 1996 levels
for at least five years. That would get us back to a hopeful,
preboom happiness. Good jobs, but no widespread boom. |
| 2003/3/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27614 Activity:nil |
3/6 Has Bush ever explained how exactly he's going to pay for this war?
During the gulf war, the other bush demanded that the western countries
chip in and pay up. Rightfully so I thought. But with unilateral
action, we'll have to pay for it all ourselves. Why do I have a feeling
that we're going to read his lips and get shafted with higher taxes?
\_ What don't you understand about deficit spending?
\_ He mentioned it yesterday. He'd just ask Congress for the money.
\_ and how is congress going to get the money if we have a deficit?
I guess the treasury will start auctioning 30 year bonds again.
They stopped issuing those since 2001.
\_ He'll just get rid of all the useless shit in the budget.
\_ like the military? |
| 2003/3/6-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27609 Activity:very high |
3/6 Mall t-shirt part II: http://csua.org/u/a48 Now the mall wants to drop the charges because they know they screwed up bigtime. \_ dropping charges doesn't mean anything. They want to apprehend the person who is in their view politically incorrect. By arrest him first, file charges later, then release him, The mall has achieved this goal. Same tactics is oftened used in mainland China. Most people gets the message and become silent afterwards. \_ Um, okay. Most people would consider this a victory for the demonstrators and the guy who was arrested. He's probably not planning on being silent since he's considering a lawsuit. I think a reasonable person would say the mall failed miserably and that this will send a message to malls across the country that they shouldn't try the same thing. \_ call me a greedy bastard. What I really want to see is a civil lawsuit against the mall. As previous motd stated, there is no law (hence protection) governing this kind of issue in New York State. Consider that New York is the 2nd largest State in the Union. Such law is long overdue. \_ What you don't seem to understand is businesses don't want such a law, neither do a probable majority of the public. So in the sense anything is overdue, it would be annuling California's law. \_ California isn't the only state with limited \_ California's law does not provides that you may exercise your 1st amd. right to free speech in a quasi-public forum (privately owned, but operated with the intention that any member of the public can attend) at any time you chose. What it provides is that you may exercise your 1st amd. right at a reasonable time and place within the forum and that such a time and place may be determined by the owners of the forum. \_ the CA state supreme court said the following in Robins v. Pruneyard Shopping Center, 23 Cal.3d 899 (1979), aff''d, 447 U.S. 74 (1980): The free-speech guarantees of the California Constitution "protect speech and petitioning, reasonably exercised, in shopping centers even when the centers are privately owned." - danh free speech protections in quasi-public forums. Colorado, Oregon and New Jersey among others protect free speech in quasi-public forums. As far as what the majority of the public want, that is irrelevant since the purpose of the first amd. is to protect the freedoms of the minority from the will of the majority. \_ You are a greedy bastard. \_ This doesn't work as well in the States because we're not that subtle, we haven't internalized our protests to avoid persecution, and we love to sue to make our voices heard. In real terms, sure, the mall achieved its goal by expelling the t-shirt protesters, but in perceived terms, they've lost by having to make the retraction. \_ Will all of you with anti-war desires please form a PAC, stop being so cheap, and pay for your results like every other special interest? I had to live through the hippie movements in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, and I'd really like to keep the new millennium hippie free. Thanks. -ax \_ 1. anti-war not necessarily equal to hippie \_ Would people mind dressing up a little for protests then? They get international press and everyone outside the US thinks we are slobs. -ax \_ Most people outside the US agree with the protestors. \_ And you know this how? You've polled the world and the world is qualified to make this judgement and makes it from a neutral point of view and not an anti-American or selfish perspective? Uh huh. 2. this whole thread is not about war/anti-war. it's about freedom of expression and consistutional right in semi-public areas \_ Malls are private areas. \_ not true... in most of America (ie, suburbia) there are no general shopping districts, per se, and few public places for people to congregate. Malls spring up to fill this gap, and therefore act as de facto public places. \_ You are wrong, except in California. If you read the USSC opinion posted here yesterday the mall was completely legal in its behavoir - as it should be. \_ You fail to understand why people move to suburbia. They move there precisely to avoid having to deal with the unwashed masses, crazies, and generally anyone who deviates from their beliefs and values. \_ it has nothing to do with anyone else's political in a store at the mall. Sure, I care about freedom of speech and all that good stuff, but aren't we missing the more important issue here? The guy BUYS a shirt in a store within the mall, which I'm sure the mall doesn't mind one bit. But then as soon as he WEARS it, they get pissy. That's probably his best bet at winning a lawsuit (although it probably wouldn't be as nice of a case for 1st amendment rights then). beliefs. thats such an idiotic and silly smear. it is entirely and 100% because it is cleaner, safer, easier to live, more convenient and mostly free from crazies and criminals. you're not as clever as you feel. the only reason to live in a crowded city such as SF is you're young and \_ you think black people should still be forced to attend different high schools? besides, the point was to disprove that protest "doesn't produce anything" like the endless party, you're old and have near zero rent due to draconian rent control laws. or you're a criminal and there's a higher victim density there. --happy in the burbs \_ Hahaha thanks for making my point. \_ I weep for you poor soulless bastards. \_ Which is why the t-shirtters are getting support both from the Right and the Left: they may disagree vehemently, but they both want the right to do so loudly and publicly. \_ Protest, by its very nature, doesn't produce anything. It only prevents things from happening. \_ bzzt. sorry. wrong. cite: most progressive change w/in the last 30 years \_ 'progressive change'? is that a good thing? If all those protestors would pick up trash, or join the Peace Corp, or actually DO SOMETHING USEFUL other than complain, that would make the world a lot better place than chanting "No War For Oil". -ax \_ gee, ax, are you joining the Peace Corps? Or are you for the war and joining the Army? -tom \_ I'm just tired of seeing the same unhappy faces protesting every issue that comes up: compaining doesn't accomplish anything. How many bodybuilders or athletes do you see running around protesting? There are do'ers and complainers. Those who can't do, complain. -ax \_ While our elected officials (and one appointed one) don't seem to realize this, we are living in a democractic society, and protest is vital to its workings. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. [Margaret Mead]" As for bodybuilders and athletes, I don't think being more concerned with your shoe contract than with world politics really qualifies as "doing". -tom \_ Republicans are that small group, and they are changing the world. Protest by voting or PAC's, don't clog the streets with sloppily dressed people followed by a celebratory riot. -ax \_ I used to give you more credit than this. -tom \_ I didn't say they were changing it for the better! -ax \_ that's not what I mean. voting is important, but it's not the primary agent of social change. Look at the civil rights reforms of the 60's--do you think they were driven by the election of Ronald Reagan as governor and Richard Nixon as president? No, they were driven by protests and the work of activists. As for PAC's, government-for-hire is the *problem*, not the solution. -tom <- \_ I think the protestors would be more effective saying that they have mobilized >51% of the voters and Bush won't get re-elected if he goes to war with Iraq. Protests, as they stand now, are a very vocal minority trying to bully more than their fair share of representation out of the government. It's one vote per person, not more votes for those who yell the loudest. Which is why I too hate PAC's, although at least lobbiests are well dressed and don't turn over newspaper stands and throw rocks. -ax \_ More to the point, the protesters need to protest _and_ mobilize the vote. Protest gets the message out there; votes are what gets the politicos to listen to your protests. \_ not really. its still about money. \_ The funny part about this argument is, ax is complaining about how protestors aren't "doing" anything, in a case where the protestors actually *did* something. Do you think the mall would have dropped the charges without the protests? -tom \_ Wearing T shirts and putting on bumper stickers isn't doing anything. How do you get peace? You crush all your enemies. Peace is just the lack of war. Sitting on your ass in a tied died shirt smoking a doob isn't peace. Your peace is provided by the men and women who wear the US flag on their shoulder and actually go out and do something to prevent terrorists from dropping anthrax in your bong. -ax \_ How about the strategy of, "Don't make enemies?" \_ counterexample: al qaeda would not be attacking the US if we were not an ever-present aggressive military presence in the middle east. -tom \_ The same people who run Al Qaeda also plan to turn the entire world into a Taliban-ish muslim state. That includes your pampered ass. \_ Al qaeda says that they wouldn't be attacking the US if we weren't in Saudi Arabia, but how can you believe the words of a bunch of criminals? \_ What do Gordon Liddy and Pat Robertson have to do with this conversation? \_ what possible *reason* would they have to attack the US if we weren't in the middle east? Bush has already warned us that a war in Iraq is likely to *increase* terrorist attacks in the US. -tom \_ Duh, read a history book. We're the infidels and they believe it is the word of God that they should convert the entire world, at the edge of a sword if necessary. Wake up. Read their own websites if you're feeling nerdy. \_ rhetoric for minions and motivating factors for the leaders are two entirely separate things. the former just needs something to believe in. the latter needs something to show for it (money, power, increased followings). You need the history book, not to mention philosophy, civics, etc. \_ If you knew anything about how islamic politics works, then you would be aware of the fact that most of the leaders are in it for the simple purpose of eliminating the unbelievers from the face of this world. \_ This is a convenient reading of history. Who has fought more wars in the last 100 years, the Arabs or the Europeans? How about the last 1000? \_ OK, so Bernard Lewis is wrong and you are right. \_ Actually this is fairly normal. The mall got the person off of their property with a minimum of costs and doesn't wish to alienate anyone, so they drop tresspassing charges. Besides, a trial would cost the mall money and bad publicity. \_ What makes this interesting for me is that the guy bought the shirt in a store at the mall. Sure, I care about freedom of speech and all that good stuff, but aren't we missing the more important issue here? The guy BUYS a shirt in a store within the mall, which I'm sure the mall doesn't mind one bit. But then as soon as he WEARS it, they get pissy. That's probably his best bet at winning a lawsuit (although it probably wouldn't be as nice of a case for 1st amendment rights then). \_ I think it was a "Make your own T-shirt" booth, not a stock one at Anchor Blue. It's sorta like that Nike guy wanting "Sweatshop" on his sneakers. (I think both are fine, btw). \_ Just because you bought something at the mall doesn't mean you can use it at the mall. Think cigarettes, music CDs, "massagers," nude photography, etc. It's still private property. \_People who keep insisting that "the mall is private property so they can do whatever they want" need to learn about the legal concept called "public accommodation." \_ Didn't you read the legal opinions presented here yesterday? The mall was perfectly legal in its behavoir - as it should be. The only reason they are backing down is because its politically incorrect and they are a business, ie. they want to make money. \_ Public accomodation doesn't imply public forum. They can still say no to the tshirt if they felt it was disruptive. \_ Can they say no to blacks if they feel that they too are disruptive? \_ if they wear shirts saying 'kill whitey' \_ hi red herring troll boy! missed you, you race baiter, you! on the count of 3, lets all hate all white people in the name of advancing equality! \_ I wasn't bringing up a race issue. I was using race to point out how the flaws in the "they can still say no" argument. But you missed that point entirely. \_ You failed to deliver it. Your failure is not my fault. So you're not only a race baiter and a poor debated but you can't take responsibility for your own failings. Typical race baiter drivel. \_ Ah, good example. If the mall can prove that somebody is being disruptive, they can refuse them service or access. If they can't, then it's a question of discrimination, unless they are a private club. So excluding blacks to a publically accessible area (the mall) for no reason is discrimination, UNLESS they can prove that their presence will present a danger to public safety. Very tough to do. |
| 2003/3/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27601 Activity:nil |
3/4 Are tireflys street legal in California? -pale white sysadm biker boy |
| 2003/2/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27497 Activity:kinda low |
2/22 Can someone give me an idea of how to go about finding value
estimates on old (ca. 40-80 years) cameras? I have a crate full
that needs to find a good home, and I'd like to see what I can get
for them. -John
\_ completed ebay auctions?
\_ Adolph Gasser sells used camera's. You can check out what
they sell 'em for. Maybe you can get them to sell yours or
buy from you.
\_ http://www.keh.com ?? |
| 2003/2/20 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27465 Activity:kinda low |
2/19 Peace Movements: Then and Now
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=6228
\_ wow, fear the commies! Commies everywhere! Damn reds!
\_ Completely unfounded drivel! Congratulations and welcome to
the motd!
\_ that was particularly content free, thanks!
\_ Oh so THIS is what David Horowitz's fearsome magazine and foundation
are about. God, I can't tell you how relieved I am. |
| 2003/2/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:27335 Activity:nil |
2/6 Dems to Miguel Estrada: You're Not Hispanic Enough
http://nationalreview.com/york/york020603.asp |
| 2003/2/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Foreign] UID:27332 Activity:high |
2/6 http://www.csua.org/u/905 (Yahoo News) "Texas, the only U.S. state to have once been an independent country, ......" When did that happen??? \_ I think that Texas was an independent republic from 1830 to 1850 or so. It was part of the union by the 1860s during the civil war. \_ stfw: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1845 \_ Lies. California was the Bear Flag Republic for a few weeks. \_ Canada still is. |
| 2003/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27256 Activity:high |
1/30 A cold shower
http://csua.org/u/8ab (libertarian blather)
\_ I seem to remember reading this on the wall of top dog.
\_ Thomas Sowell is Black conservative at Stanford. |
| 2003/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:27255 Activity:insanely high |
1/31 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/business/31SAVE.html What kind of bullshit is Bush trying to pull? What a shameless tactic. Tax now to make up for the huge deficit, and to hell with the future. Keep borrowing tax money from the future. I thought only drug addicts do these kind of things. \_ Guess what - Social Security will be broke in 10 years regardless. The return on the money you pay into Social Security will be negative - and yet you want to pay more? If you're so fucking gungho about it - PAY EXTRA, in fact pay my share. And yes, drug addicts do make comments like yours. \_ It's not about the level of taxation. It's about borrowing future tax revenues to spend today. Get a clue. Scrap social security for all I care. This Roth IRA thing is a dangerous game to play. It's good for me personally in the short run, but it is bad for the nation. The government is sacrificing a future revenue stream for a one shot infusion of tax money. \_ And we all know what happens to money from the 'revenue streams' the government sacrifices right? The money magically disappears and is never seen or heard from again (a dark cave in the middle in Libya). As if the current IRS code does not encourage tax evasion. \_ You think the government will cut spending when the tax revenue disappears? Nah, they will just increase your taxes then. Remember "Read my lips. No new taxes"? Thus you are taxed twice. \_ Obviously you've never run a business or any other sort of revenue in/outflow oriented .org. Borrowing from the future to fund things today the way life works. Do you think to fund things toady is the way life works. Do you think businesses are stupid for taking out business loans? Do you think the government should run a perfectly balanced zero debt budget in good times and bad? Would you like to see a 20% cut in services if tax revenues drop 20% one year? Or would your 'answer' be to simply raise taxes 20%? Take some intro macro economics courses (just one will do) and join us after. Until then, you're merely confused and a bit cute. Are you \_this may be true when running a profitable business, but then we get in a discussion of whether the government should be run like a corporation. after you fill my head with tales of efficiency and how Bush has packed his cabinet with highly successful businessmen, then I whip out how recent news stories are filled with the collapse of supposedly highly successful corporations. available? I could use another young naive pliable lover. \_ Yea sure, the government is like an efficient business. Get a grip. You think they will just cut spending in the future? Nah, they will just increase your taxes to make up for the lost revenues. Remember "Read my lips, no new taxes"? Besides, borrowing too much is bad even for businesses. Do you really need me to list examples of mightily leveraged companies falling flat on their faces? This is not just a little borrowing. It's potentially a huge amount of money. Your important segment of 80k and above earners are going to dump or redirect a big chunk of their savings or 401k contributions to these schemes. Do the math. Also, if you want to stimulate the economy, cut taxes so people spend more or invest more, don't borrow future taxes so government can waste more. No, the government should not run a "perfectly balanced zero debt budget", it should run a budget that's in the black with some margin. Finally, stop trying to act \_ Boy, NY Times bias is showing: "The change, which would primarily benefit the affluent who can afford to save more of their income" (or maybe they need to explain to the readers who can't think for themselves) \_ So stating the obvious is bias? \_ Slanting it to refer to "the affluent" is. Hey, I can save more than you can, I'm affluent! tough. You are just a spring chicken. \_ Why does the trickle down myth persist? \_ So rich people don't feel guilty. \_ The 'huge' amount of money is actually very tiny compared to the whole budget. I've got a grip. You go do some math. I have no idea what your noise about "acting tough" and "spring chickens" is about. Anyway, an intro macro class wouldn't kill you. |
| 2003/1/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/SIG, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27230 Activity:very high |
1/28 http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm Go ahead and keep deleting it. I will keep putting it back. \_ the truth shall set you free. I find it more accurate to search for the word "israel" in the actual letter of the law. As in here http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107bC8waW I've gone back a few years. Israel always get more than Egypt despite what garbage alexf spews. The truth shall set you \_ care to elaborate on this reference? (and while you're at it, give a functional url and sign your name) -alexf free. \_ israel should try giving some of the money to the arabs. |
| 2003/1/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:27187 Activity:high |
1/24 Can't get a law passed through Congress? Just make it an executive
order! President allows our tax dollars to fund the construction
of churches in a fairly clear establishment of official government
religion. Go Conservatives!
\_ What the hell are you talking about?
\_ The question is still funding. Just saying it's so is great if
it doesn't cost anything. Congress has to appropriate funds.
\_ I believe the quote was, "Stroke of the pen, law of the land, cool!"
It's amazing how cool it is when it's your molestor-in-chief doing
it, but how much it sucks when the opposition does things you don't
like and how quickly some of us blather on about the constitution
when we were perfectly happy to ignore it the previous 8 years as
a "living changing document". Welcome to the conservative side
with your new found belief in strict constitutionalism.
\_ well, to be fair, the dems never considered the constitution
to be some sacrosanct document that is not open to deconstruction
and reinterpretation. so it's only galling when the republicans
do it.
\_ no, it's galling when leftists fall back on a strict
interpretation when it is convenient to claim a violation and
want to ignore and twist it the rest of the time.
\_ So it's okay when you do it but not okay when someone
else does. Right-o.
\_ Who said anything about recent democrats being faultess? To
be fair though, where's the special investigator who should
be looking into our current president's alleged drug use? I'm
sure that given enough money he could find some kind of dirt
on W that the conservative media won't be able to easily spin.
\_ Never been a strict constitutionalist, never will, but I
want a chance to vote on the X-ianization of the govt.
\_ The government ALREADY funds private sectarian schools
with Federal loans. The USSSC decided this is allowed provided
the choice is made by an individual. At at least be honest
honest about your intentions - the U.S. government is
historically Christian, a fact easy to verify.
What you want is secularization.
Government giving handouts corrupts the exchange and eliminates
any moral virtue of the exchange. Read Dinesh D'Souza for
example, http://www.dineshdsouza.com |
| 2003/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:27176 Activity:high |
1/21 I read that tuition/fees/whatever is going back up to pre '98 levels.
How many of you plan to get jobs and start voting republican?
\_ why? we need to raise taxes to cover the deficite. how can the
republicans help?
\_ why dont you get a job and pay your 38% in taxes to help out?
\_ You don't get it. You should lower taxes when there's a deficit,
in order to stimulate growth which will lead to more revenue.
That's what I learned from Reagan.
\_ Yeah. Economic theory proposed by Alzheimer's patients
and supported by coke-driven stock brokers is exactly
what we need.
\_ Totally. Anything proposed in the past by anyone now
sick or dead is worthless. I mean, who needs math
thought up by some crazy dead virgin? (Newton) |
| 2003/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:27165 Activity:nil |
1/20 Re: Illinois Governor cleared death row. Here's a shining example of
the error of what he did:
http://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/op0114dou.html
Or search for "Fedell Caffey" and "Jacqueline Williams"
Here's the skinny:
"Together these two committed three of the most grisly killings
imaginable. In 1995 they shot and killed a pregnant woman, Debra Evans.
The Tribune said they then used a pair of scissors to slice her
'full-term baby from her womb.' But even then they weren't through.
Caffey and Williams kidnapped Evans' other children, a 10-year-old
daughter and a 7-year-old son, and hacked both children to death."
\_ Obviously they were molested as children, have anger management and
control issues to work through and haven't been given a real chance
by society. They need help, not the chair!
\_ Ah, typical conservative soda drivel. Oh my god, there might
have been a couple of cases where someone really did deserve
to die, so let's kill about 20-30 innocent people along the
way. If they were really innocent anyway, they'd be able
afford good lawyers like OJ did.
\_ No, more like, let's not throw the baby out with the bath
water. How about the idiot governor doing his fucking job
and looking at each case instead of the PR grabbing free-them-
all crap?
\_ He's no idiot. This politician is buying votes.
\_ Oh my god, there might have been a couple of cases where
some guilty people didn't really deserve to die, so let's
free about 20-30 death-deserving guilty people from
execution along the way. If they really deserve to die
anyway, they ... oh wait ... er ... they'll eventually die
when they get old.
\_ Joking aside, my wife is 6 months along with our second child.
These monsters need the chair. -emarkp
\_ "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Judge not, that ye not be
judged" --The Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 14
\_ Or keep them in prison for life, which is probably cheaper
because of the legal fees required to put someone to death.
\_ put lawyers to death
\_ It's made expensive artificially. That's no reason.
\_ Yeah, because now people such as them would otherwise think
twice before murdering your wife and unborn child.
\_ I hope your wife and kids are next.
\_ It Takes A Village
\_ can't we all just get along?
\_ It Takes A Village
\_ Yermom knows. |
| 2003/1/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:27151 Activity:very high |
1/18 Looks like some senators still have a little backbone:
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-980889.html
\_ this is why everyone, regardless of party affiliation should
vote in the democratic primary so they acan vote against
Liebermann.
\_ Lieberman isn't even mentioned in the article that I could see.
WTF are you talking about?
\_ Anti-Semitic troll attempt.
\_ The original logo for the Information Awareness Office is scary.
\_ "Concealed in his fortress, the Eye of Mordor sees all."
\_ Does the Information Awareness Office remind anyone else of the
"Information Retrieval" office in the movie "Brazil"?
\_ No.
\_ Does the Department of Homeland Security remind anyone
else of the Ministry of Love? |
| 2003/1/14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27089 Activity:nil |
1/13 Vote for the California quarter:
<DEAD>134.186.46.107<DEAD> |
| 2003/1/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27035 Activity:insanely high |
1/8 Question for "conservative" sodans: If government is supposed to
be run like a business, which implies fiscal responsibility and
trying to make some kind of profit, why do republicans always run
up a deficit when in power and leave it to democrats to clean up
afterwards? Wasn't there a budget surplus before G.W. took
office? Censor away, conservatives.
\_ Why do you put conservative in quotes? I don't put "liberal" in
quotes. Doesn't it look weird to see "liberal" in quotes? I
think it does. --conservative before it was cool to be conservative
\_ You're begging the question, troll boy. The market was already in
a freefall and the economy already sliding bigtime down hill before
Bush took office.
\_ That's no reason to make it worse, dumbass.
\_ Make it worse by what, troll boy? Maybe he should've raised
taxes in a recession. No cookie, kiddo.
\_ Hadn't the economy started to go down before Clinton left office?
\_ Hadn't the economy started to go down before Clinton
entered office? Daddy Bush?
It's all politics. Conservatives are for personal freedom
and responsibility, yet they want to legislate abortion and
gays and whatnot. The preach "hands-off" free-market on one
hand and then govt legislating morality and flag-jesus worship
onthe other hand.
\_ don't forget grants to corporations disguised
as programs to keep them more competitive!
\_ four quadrants:
fiscal conservative, social conservative -> Republican
fiscal conservative, social liberal, -> Libertarian
fiscal liberal, social conservative,
fiscal liberal, social conservative -> Reaganite
fiscal liberal, social liberal -> Democrat
\_ misleading.Both parties are fiscal liberals, they
both like to spend. One spends on the rich, other
spends on the poor.
\_ wanting a tax cut is not spending
\_ Building a huge military is spending.
\_ two issues: tax cut and how you
divide spending. conservatives
want tax cuts. How they spend
is another matter.
\_ Clinton decreased government spending
as a percentage of GNP. Reagan did not.
As far as I know, no Republican actually
has, in spite of all the hot air:
http://perspicuity.net/civics/gov-acct.html
\_ Whoa! I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal but
I am certainly *not* a libertarian!
\_ then what is your affiliation?
\_ I see myself as a real conservative which means small
government. Small government means the government
basically stays out of people's lives but not in the
insane and extremist way the Libertarians want. I'm
not insane. I just don't want a bloated government
stealing my very hard earned money and giving it to
people who have done *nothing* to earn it except
bitch and cry and whine how oppressed they are and
how I *owe* them something for some strange reason.
\_ I should have also asked for your definition
of a Libertarian
\_ I read their website. I honestly don't recall
the details, just that I found a lot of it
unrealistic, extremist, and idealistic to the
point of fantasy.
\_ Nobody really wants strict fiscal responsibility during a recession.
but all of that hot air appeals to voters.
\_ Tax cuts imply deficits
\_ No. In the long term tax cuts cause the economy to grow. Taxes
are funds stripped from the economy that are no longer able to
produce or create real jobs or wealth. It's a drag on the
economy not a growth measure (raising taxes).
\_ So taxes are kept in Fort Knox never to be spent? Go go
Goldfinger!
\_ Taxes don't grow an economy. Well run businesses do. The
government is a source of waste and corruption, not any
sort of productivity, innovation, or new invention. The
only things the government has created in this century are
poverty through dependence, and weapons.
\_ Well, we are only two years into the century. I'm sure
we can go for something much more sinister by 2101. USA!
\_ Given a budget surplus, would it be better to:
1. Fix the roads, bridges, and other infrastructure
2. Invest in education, from pre-school to universities
3. Give 90% of it to the upper 0.2% of wealthy people
\_ that is kind of weird. most of the tax cut will
go to really old rich people who derive a significant
portion of their income from stock dividends.
I don't know ANYONE who gripes about the government
taxing their dividend income. i would be more convinced
if the administration press machine would try to show
that lots of jobs are created by this elite class
of stock dividend collectors.... but they haven't at all.
maybe they're busy with iraq and are trusting the GOP
majority in all 3 branches of the government will
allow them to pass anything they want and dissenting
views are beneath their notice. pretty depressing.
\_ Don't you know what dividends even are? They are the
payback to the investors from the company turning a
profit. Without those investors there wouldn't be enough
money to run the business and a *shitload* of people
would be jobless. Possibly to the point of the economy
simply ceasing to function. Hey I know, let's punish
everyone who creates jobs by investing in the economy.
This whole thread is fucking ridiculous and shows the
\_ There is an article in the WSJ that argues that
instead of cutting divident tax, they should
give tax rebates to companies that pay dividends.
This will solve the double taxation problem,
give more money to corporations to invest, and
help the huge number of middle-income people
who hold stocks in their 401Ks, IRAs, etc. (all
of which essentially still have to pay tax on
dividends), rather than to the rich old people.
The other thing I hate is the child-tax credit.
I don't mind sharing some burden with poorer
people who need help caring for their kids, but
why should rich people who breed like pigs take
my money just because they have lots of kids?
amazing and incredible ignorance and sheer blind
stupidity of many of you regarding how the world works.
\_ Don't you know what personal income is? They are
the payback to people who work. Without workers,
there wouldn't be any business, and no company
will survive. Possibly to the point of the economy
ceasing to function. Hey I know, let's punish
everyone who work at jobs and make the economy
turn. Nobody is asking for the elimination of
dividends, just whether and how it should be taxed,
just like nobody is asking for the elimination
of personal income, just how it should be taxed.
\_ Oh yeah? I think income tax is bullshit. Want
to tax something? Tax people on how much use they
get out of the infrastructure. Road tolls, gas,
cigarette, utility and other usage taxes are just
fine. A euroweenie style VAT is fine too.
\_ Sure, now that you have understood dividend
and personal income, we can proceed to talk
about dividend tax and income tax, and whether
they are needed.
\_ I already understood divs and PI. I believe
neither are needed and in fact are harmful.
\_ isn't it reasonable to say that no tax on dividends
encourages "buy-and-hold" behavior?
\_ ok that's reasonable. why doesn't the admin.
say this? all i read in the newspapers
is "giant tax cut on dividends. suck it up
assholes!"
\_ GWB said that? Cool! What a stud!
\_ Clinton is a stud. Bob Dole is a stud (even
though he needs viagra). GWB ain't no stud.
\_ There is an article in the WSJ that argues that instead
of cutting divident tax, they should give tax rebates to
companies that pay dividends. This will solve the double
taxation problem, give more money to corporations to
invest, and help the huge number of middle-income people
who hold stocks in their 401Ks, IRAs, etc. (all of which
essentially still have to pay tax on dividends), rather
than to the rich old people. The other thing I hate is
the child-tax credit. I don't mind sharing some burden
with poorer people who need help caring for their kids,
but why should rich people who breed like pigs take my
money just because they have lots of kids?
\_ Why should *anyone* get money for having kids?
\_ That would be even better. I can always
give money myself to my neighbour who
needs help.
\_ Maybe your neighbor should've used a condom.
\_ If the country is to cut taxes, it should first
cut income taxes, next capital gains, next
divident taxes, and only finally, inheritance
tax. This is because we should award ability,
not rich people with no abilities. If you
keep rewarding rich people with no abilities,
you will create classes in the society.
\_ Bush.
\_ some folks here are actually having a real
discussion. take your crap to slashdot/kero5hin.
\_ What's wrong with classes? Has there *ever* been a
society without classes? Is it even possible?
\_ big middle class, class mobility.
\_ I believe this is the best that can be done,
but you've still got classes.
\_ Using your POV you should put inhereitance tax first.
\_ Why should there be one at all? What gives the
government the right to interfere in a parent's
transfer of family properly to other family? Why
are they taxing death?
\_ The same reason why we don't have succession
monarchy and aristocracy in this country.
"Damnit! I earned this country fair and
square by leading the country to defeat
its enemies and ruling it well. Why can't
I pass it to my son?!"
\_ 4. Pay off the National Debt so we no longer have to pay
interest to our creditors.
\_ These creditors being exactly who? Bond holders, also
known as the American public for the most part. The debt
is the government reinvesting in the country.
\_ Yes, it's good to go into debt to buy a house, but
what is the right balance? do we need buy 2,3,4 houses
\_ Depends. If you can afford to buy 50 houses, that's
a great long term investment in many locations in
this country. I can't afford 50. I can almost
afford 2 in the bay area. I'd get a second and rent
it out if I thought I could swing it.
\_ I'm not a conservative, but the usual items to blame are social
services which are not part of the Constitution(tm). If you go
full "states' right," feds should only provide for national defense,
trade relations between states, and maintaining law as strictly
described by the Bill of Rights (and maybe some of the amendments).
All social services should be done by the states themselves or
privately (church, foundations, etc.). The deficit is because
federal social services exist.
\_ You sure sound like a conservative. It's ok to be a closet
conservative as long as you keep making conservative arguments.
\_ Even with all of these federal services, there was a surplus
when G.W. took office. It was clear the economy was going
downhill, yet he gave that surplus away to the extremely
wealthy and put us into deficit spending this country hasn't
seen since Reagon was in charge. At least Reagan had a
real reason (a strong Soviet Union) to forget about long-term
strategy.
\_ Exactly what surplus did GWB give to the wealthy? There has
been pretty much nothing returned to anyone yet at any level.
To say that there's been some big giveaway is either pure
ignorance or a flat out malicious lie. Oh yeah, there was
that big huge gigantic $300 bucks which was enough to totally
crush the budget. Whatever.
\_ Also, the tax relief check is the same amount for most
taxpayers having between low 5-figure and many-figure
income. Hence, in terms of percentage of income, the
low-income taxpayers already benefited more than the
high-income taxpayers even though the tax rates for
low-income taxpayers were lower than those for high-income
taxpayers.
\_ Dropping the top tax rate for the most wealthy.
\_ Child, it hasn't happened yet. When you have clue, you
may return to the conversation. Please stop drinking
your own poison. No one has had their tax rate dropped.
I know because I'm paying that top rate and it hasn't
changed a bit. I'll let you know when it has and it
won't be soon enough for me.
\_ Yes it has. You have been paying based on the (lower)
2002 tax rate all year, you just didn't notice it.
\_ Do farm and business subsidies count as federal social services?
\_ Not in the same sense, but to a degree, yes. On the other
hand, there is an important need for the country to be able
to produce enough food and certain goods self sufficiently.
We definitely do not want to be dependent on some foreign
power for our food or other basic needs. I consider some of
these subsidies to be necessary for the country's long term
safety, stability, and survival. Others are pure pork and
should be completely ended.
\_ A bogus argument for subsidies. The US massively
overproduces "staple" farm goods, thus dropping prices,
and therefore subsidies. This argument assumes that
without subsidies there would be no farming. Wrong.
\_ So if there were no subsidies you think they'd just
grow less food and charge more and it would all be ok?
And who gets hurt the most by this? The poor? Yup.
I'm deeply conservative and I find this very *not* ok.
\_ The only reason the poor will get hurt is because
this distorted agricultural economy has been
around too long. It is like people getting
addicted to drugs. I say gradual reduction of
subsities. Short-term pain, long-term gain.
\_ And the free-market will take care of this anyways.
No more republican subsidies! If anything, we need
to get more oil, a basic need, that's more
important to long-term national economic
health than cheese or eggs!
\_ Troll. There are just as many democrat farm states
as republican. That POS who switched over in the
Senate only did so because the dems promised him his
state would still get farm subsidies/pork and he'd
keep his position on a pork committee. As far as oil
goes, we have plenty. It's in Alaska. It's off the
coast of California and Florida and probably other
places. Drill for it. It's there. |
| 2003/1/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:27021 Activity:high |
1/07 Coming to a State Near You: California's Illegal
Immigration Economic Nigthmare
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/perl/banner/image/2
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/817592/posts
\_ Thar she blows! Round up the harpoons! We're after a
freeper carcass!
\_ Don't waste your time with that trash site. They just
censor anything they disagree with. |
| 2003/1/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:27011 Activity:high 61%like:27009 |
01/06 Important legal ruling for all you males:
http://csua.org/u/779 -from http://sfgate.com -urld
Um, just give me a few more minutes to finish up...
\_ What about when she says: "Don't...Stop...Don't...Stop..."?
\_"the high court's majority did not indicate how much time a man has
to withdraw once a woman says stop."
\_ there should be a yellow-light first. Then you're allowed in
the intersection. When it's yellow, you have a chance to
speed up. Once it turns red, you get a ticket.
\_ Brings new meaning to the term "California Stop".
\_ And this is relevant to most sodans how? You have to talk to girls
before you get to this point.
\_ c'mon, most of us here are around 30 now. we've talked to girls,
it's just not that interesting.
\_ perhaps you've been talking to the wrong girls. |
| 2003/1/7 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:27009 Activity:nil 61%like:27011 |
01/06 Important legal ruling for all you males:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/01/06/state1919EST0124.DTL
Um, just give me a few more minutes to finish up...
\_"the high court's majority did not indicate how much time a man has
to withdraw once a woman says stop."
\_ there should be a yellow-light first. Then you're allowed in
the intersection. When it's yellow, you have a chance to
speed up. Once it turns red, you get a ticket.
\_ Brings new meaning to the term "California Stop". |
| 2003/1/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:26958 Activity:very high |
1/01 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/01/politics/01DEMS.html This entire thing truly amazes me. The Dems have TV, Hollywood, cable, prime time news, and all but 2 of the major newspapers. Everything *except* radio and Fox news. If they honestly and truly believe their problem is lack of access to get their message out and if only they had their own Rush then they'd get more votes then they're doomed. They can't possibly truly believe what this article says they do. Democrats, please tell me, is this article bullshit or do Democrats *really* believe this stuff? --baffled conservative [why do you keep deleting this? it's a real link from a real news source with a real question. and yes i'm going to keep restoring it.] \_ yes, some people are stupid enough to believe that the media is a giant conservative conspiracy, just as some people (like you) are stupid enough to believe it's a giant liberal conspiracy. \_ The major media channels are owned by GE, MS, Viacom and Vivendi. All tilt heavily Republican. Your notion that the Dems control the media just shows how self-deluded you really are. \_ We were always at war with Oceana. \_ Like I said its all about the vast right wing consipracy out to get me and my husband - Hillary \_ Because conservatives tend to overstate the "liberal bias" of the media. Having a few liberal views makes one an Evil Liberal, while having a few conservative views do not make one an Evil Conservative. The ranking of All Of Media Is Liberal stems from the conservatives' marketing their brand of thinking as True Conservatism(tm). There is no other brand. To disagree is to not be a TC and thus must be liberal. The thing is that most TCs do have some liberal POVs but don't express it. \_ There's no disputing a clear bias on issues like gun control and abortion rights, where the positions of liberal and cons are fairly clear. Overall the bias may be minor, but on some it is extreme. \_ Which makes all of their POVs automatically Liberal. It's the Cons's self-pitying victimization that irritates me. |
| 2002/12/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26938 Activity:high 71%like:26931 |
12/28 The failure of the German welfare cradle-to-grave system:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813440/posts
\_ Wow. Tax revenues are down and deficits are up, so the government
raises taxes?! Thank God that would never happen here! Get a life,
pal. A majority of states right here in the US are in the same
economic boat. How many of them have a "cradle-to-grave" welfare
system? Get a life.
\_ You're not making any sense. If you could calm down for the 30
seconds it might take to write a reply maybe we could discuss it.
In the mean time, take a look and see the long term fate of an
industrialized western nation with even greater taxes than here:
9% unemployment and zero growth to our lower taxes, lower
enumployment rate and above-zero growth.
\_ Austria +2.5%, Britain +3.4% , Spain +3.2% quit making shit
up.
\_ None of which have the same level of socialist support or
taxes Germany has. Thanks for staying on point.
\_ Aren't you late for some cyrillic menorah reading or somesuch?
\_ No idea who or what you're talking about.
\_ you may or may not be right, but the existence of a recession
doesn't mean that's the "long term fate" of such a system.
duh.
\_ Been going on for *9* years. Read the article, then come
come back and let us know what you think. "duh"
\_ I like it when the poor suffer and die. It's much better that
way. I mean, God must want it to happen, right?
\_ Because once the economy collapses from over taxation, all
those poor citizens will be equally "wealthy" and therefore
happy, right?
\_ You can't legislate compassion.
\_ How much stuff is "enough"? I don't think growth and
consumption are always good. Look how overfed Americans
are. We are dying from our overconsumption.
\_ infidel defiler!!! you are now required to read
the Fountainhead and buy an SUV or suffer the
consequences.
\_ Americans are not overfed. Those who are fat are so
because of the kinds of foods they eat, not the amount.
And you apparently haven't been to Germany. West Germany
has plenty of fatties rolling about. Anyway, I find it
interesting that the only people who say "how much stuff
is enough" are those who have nothing and want to take from
those who have. Go earn it. It isn't your place to decide
how much another human being is allowed to earn. You also
confuse 'economic growth' with 'pants size growth'. Please
come back after getting a passing grade in Econ 1 where
they'll explain how zero economic growth with a growing
population means the average standard of living will drop.
\_ The German population is not growing. Go back to Econ 1
yourself. I have everything I want and no desire to
take from others. It is you greedheads that are never
satisfied. If your selfishness and stupidity were not
destoying the planet, I would be happy to let you
wallow in all the crap you desire.
\_ Go Captain Planet go! Save that rock! Nader in
2004! |
| 2002/12/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:26904 Activity:high |
12/24 Finally, an attempt at necessary theatre. Why can't the SF theatre
community do stuff like this:
http://csua.org/u/739
\_ Too creative and no one in the US has the gumption to do it.
\_ Um, maybe you can clarify for me because I'm not quite clear
on how this is either creative or ballsy.
\_ If you tried something like this in the US, your theatre
would get firebobmed.
would get firebombed.
\_ oh please, no one would give a shit, really. get over
your "i hate america" thing and join reality. americans
are more than used to the 'arts community' being stupid
and tasteless in an effort to get noticed.
\_ why do you put arts community in quotes? Do you
not believe that it actually involves arts? Or do
you not think it's an actual community?
\_ I always put it in quotes whenever anyone refers to
the "xyz community". It implies unity and a measure
of conformity that doesn't exist.
\_ You sound like a wise man. Take heed of God's wisdom:
"In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but
the lips of the wise shall preserve them."
Proverbs 14:3
\_ You've never left the state, have you? What did you
do come straight from Temple in Moscow to here? Go
back to russia, jew.
\_ You sound like a wise man. Take heed of God's
wisdom: "In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of
pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve
them." Proverbs 14:3
\_ I love the bible quotes. You just pirate the
bible software thing off usenet?
\_ Because the SF theater community isn't completely f*cked up. |
| 2002/12/20 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26868 Activity:high |
12/19 America is being invaded
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30072
'...15 percent of school children in California are illegal
immigrants...More than 14 percent of the inmates in California's
prisons are illegal aliens'
Now we know California has a 35$ billion budget deficit -
can the libs and RINOs put 2 and 2 together?
\_ Damn those politicans who use pro-illegal-immigrant policies to buy
votes. Damn those relatives of the illegal immigrants who vote for
them.
\_ Damn those politicans who use pro-illegal-immigration policies to
buy votes. Damn those relatives of the illegal immigrants who vote
for them. Damn those who label anti-illegal-immigration ones as
"anti-immigration" in order to confuse people.
\_ hey genius, where did you get your logic degree? even the hair in
my asshole is smart enough to not get fooled by your argument.
is my ass hair smarter than you? -ali
\_ Yeah whatever. What a worthless reply. If you're so damned
smart then spell it out instead of the ad hominen garbage. -!OP |
| 2002/12/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26849 Activity:very high |
12/18 I'm hurt. A liberal (myself) criticizes Tom Daschle and gets removed.
You people have no shame. --scotsman
\_ Just like yermom
\_ Daschle is a conservative lapdog.
\_ ??? Joking, right?
\_ What were you talking about? What did he do now? Please enlighten.
\_ you get deleted because you're dull, and conservatives get killed
because they're wrong. i know, because i was the one who deleted
you, and i often censor the conservatives.
\_ conservatives are wrong? Then why not let their posts stay and
demonstrate their own wrongness? Do you burn books, too?
\_ The conservatives are backed by these huge capitalist
propaganda machines that drown out all efforts to
portray the TRUTH ACCCURATELY. People are oppressed in
the Republican's fascist attempt to conquer Iraq, which
is just a veiled (thinly at that) attempt for the
multinational corporations to control the oil supply
in the Middle East. This is the time for POSITIVE
DIRECT ACTION.
\_ wouldn't you burn child pornography?
\_ if you censor anyone ever, you're a fucking asshole, regardless
of politics. people like you make the world a worse place
to live. fuck you.
\_ No, I mean I *don't* censor anyone. I just "accidentally"
overwrite your changes because I don't use motdedit. nudge
nudge wink wink.
\_ You're an idiot.
\_ As I'm not a conservative, I'm not sure to what you are
referring. Daschle has no political instinct whatsoever,
and the latest illustration (Lott's dillema and Daschle's
reaction) is pulling this into tighter focus. --scotsman
\_ Your party chose it's own leaders. Don't like em? Vote em
out. I can't wait to see Lott take a huge fall and get the
hell out of party leadership or better yet my entire party.
\_ Yes Lott is a RINO who botched the Clinton impeachment
and the Jeffrey switch. He has no political convictions.
He should step down as speaker.
\_ He should be replaced with a conservative.
Hopefully voters of Missisippi feel the same way.
\_ when are you going to vote lott out of office? it's
your fucking party.
\_ Not being from his state nor having anyone from my party
in the senate from this state, I'm not in a position to
do as much about it as you are being a leftist in a
leftist state with your own leadership problems. I'll
bet you voted for Clinton twice. |
| 2002/12/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26792 Activity:high |
12/10 How does one explain proofs by induction to an idiot?
\_ Lead him through it step by step. He should be able to arrive
at the conclusion. -John
\- sing "the sun will come out tomorrow, tomorrow, you can
bet your bottom dollar" --psb
\_ No that's how you explain it to an intelligent person/adolescent
who has never been taught induction. I don't think induction is
for idiots.
\_ It was supposed to be a joke. -John
\_ Here, hold this wire...
\_ A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step
\_ ask them to use an indirect proof to prove that induction doesn't
work. walk them through a simple proof, like how summing increasing
odd numbers generates squares.
\_ http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56866.html
\_ On the same note, does anyone have a good online reference to
explain induction to a 16 year old brother?
\_ see the above mathforum link.
\_ is he an idiot?
\_ Schools haven't taught this to 11th graders?
\_ Go back to russia, jew.
\_ It was taught in the 10th year in Britain.
\_ I was taught induction in 8th grade (Cupertino CA)
I'm poor at geography and history but I'm pretty
sure that Cupertino is not has never been a part
of russia (or the USSR).
sure that Cupertino has never been a part of
russia (or the USSR).
\_ This one is a master of double-think.
\_ RAdm Poindexter is watching you. Don't
be surprised if the Ministry of Truth
pays you a visit. |
| 2002/12/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Car] UID:26788 Activity:high |
12/11 Is there any discount for FasTrak users on bridges? Someone told me
there is, but when I look at http://www.dot.ca.gov/fastrak there isn't
any. Thanks.
\_ $4 instead of $5 on the Golden Gate: http://toll.goldengate.org
\_ This should end soon. Budget problems.
\_ Golden Gate is FIVE dollars?? How long has this been the
case??? - moved out of the Bay Area
\_ A year or two.
\_ No, it started September 2002. --aaron
\_ BB, SM, and DB bridges used to be 1.85 but now 2.00
\_ fastrack is not about discounts. its about making traffic move
faster. it doesn't but that's the idea. they don't need to
discount a service (using bridge) that you're goint to use anyway.
\_ what about all the unemployed tooltakers?
\_ I've heard that those people supplement their income
with the tolls.
\_ what about them? is there a real question here? are you
in favor of eliminating all labor saving devices to increase
employment for the unskilled?
\_ yes.
\_ Cool, as you're obviously unemployed and desperate
for work, post your name. I have some ditches that
need digging. -John
\_ You think the poster is qualified?
\_ Let's see: strong back, good work ethic--
nope, no motd'rs fit the bill. |
| 2002/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26776 Activity:nil |
12/8 NY Times: http://csua.org/u/684 On how California is deeply fucked. There's no one left to tax and they won't cut social programs. |
| 2002/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26773 Activity:nil |
12/9 Why is Clarence Thomas hated?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/803541/posts?page=1,50
\_ Would you want a pubic hair in your coke?
\_ i don't know. are you hot? |
| 2002/12/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26751 Activity:nil |
12/8 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0312261551/reviews/002-8781719-2026452#03122615513200 Read the guy's letter about the sponge. |
| 2002/12/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26728 Activity:high |
12/5 Any recommendations for a good computer store in Berkeley, or nearby?
I'm building a desktop linux box. want it quiet and quality parts.
\_ my basement - danh
\_ Fry's. And obL1NSUX!
\_ In Berkeley?
\_ Said nearby, fremont is nearby.
\_ well there is a best buy in e-ville
\_ There are none in Berkeley city limits. I suggest visiting large
stores like Fry's and Compusa to look at pretty boxes and then buy
over the net to dodge CA sales tax and get lower prices overall.
\_ mmmm shipping costs
\_ I've done the math. For expensive parts the sales tax is
often higher than shipping *and* you get a lower base price.
And oh, btw, fuck CA's brutal and crushing sales tax.
\_ then move back to russia, jewboy!
\_ i buy cases locally, because they have a bad weight/cost
ratio. everything else i tend to do mail order, except
for the occasional fry's special. non-special prices
at fry's are awful.
\_ Hell, boy, you shoulda asked! We don't pay no stinkin'
case shipping charges! http://www.electroseller.com
\_ man, them be pricey cases. last case i bought
was for $10 at a surplus place off brokaw in sjc. |
| 2002/12/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26696 Activity:kinda low |
12/2 Anyone used a cron replacement (like CA AutoSys) that they're
happy with? I'm looking for something which controls more than
one machine. Mail me. -- Marco
\_ client/server cron? Given all of 3 seconds to think about this it
sounds like a security problem and what's wrong with rsyncing the
crontabs out anyway if you're going into that?
\_ Use cfengine as a replacement for cron. |
| 2002/11/24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26616 Activity:moderate |
11/23 A San Francisco liberal - how racist of you to delete
an article by Thomas Sowell
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20021114.shtml |
| 2002/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Security] UID:26597 Activity:nil |
11/20 How can I verify Soda's certificate?
...
\_ No. You can't add self signed certs to your cert store.
\_ yes, you can... the easiest way is if the machine is using
the same cert for https... you can import it simply using
IE... otherwise you need to manuall add import it, but it
can be done.
\_ Does the CSUA have a https site? Still haven't found
the self-signed cert ... -OP
\_ Not all versions of OE/IE support this.
\_ Really? That's dumb. Another reason not to use Lookout(tm)
\_ A self signed cert has no meaning in the PKI
model, since all it says that you vouch that
you are who you claim you are. If you really
want to implement the cert mgmt correctedly
there is no reason to allow such certs into
the cert store.
\_ Point taken. Where can I view this cert, and how was it
generated, for technical curiosity's sake? And does the
CSUA have a cert for https? -OP
\_ http://www.openssl.org has all the goodies
\_ By the way, is self-signed certificate different from
a certificate that was signed by an untrusted CA (say
you have setup a certificate authority within your company
for signing certificates)
\_ self-signed: signed by untrusted (your own) CA
\_ I like the original minty green certs best, but some of the more
orange flavored ones that came later were ok too.
\_ Before being bought out by RSA, Xcert minted their own brand for
a promo ... labeled obviously as: "XCerts"! -OP
\_ Sweet!
\_ Another approach if you really want secure POP is to set up
SSH forwarding on a local port to csua:110, then just set up
Outlook to retrieve email across the SSH (i.e., localhost: 110). |
| 2002/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26570 Activity:nil |
11/16 Somalis accuse Lewiston mayor of racism, bigotry
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/790307/posts
\_ So tell me, was this posted by an anti-freeper? |
| 2002/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26435 Activity:nil 72%like:26417 |
11/5 damnit, it's november 5. it is your civic duty to
vote: .
troll the motd about it:
get really agitated about other peoples trolls and
rant for half a screen about it:
\_ Actually I disagree with #1. It is not your civic duty to vote.
It is your civic duty to cast your ballot after educating yourself
on the issues and candidates and making an informed decision. If
you're just going to blindly vote for some party or blindly vote
on some proposition you haven't read or don't understand then
please do us all and yourself a favor and stay home.
\_ What is the Freeper list of endorsements? I want to vote that.
\_ Find the Chronicle's list online and vote the opposite. |
| 2002/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26426 Activity:high |
11/5 bush has the senate (and the house).
\_ We're goin' to WAR, baby!
\_ and about time!
\_ today Iraq, tommorrow California
\_ I don't think Bush has enough connection to California to
come save us.
\_ Repubs own DC. Dems own California. California has
the fifth largest economy on the planet. Welcome to
the revolution, baby. |
| 2002/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:26425 Activity:high |
11/5 Wow, if only the Green party had done the right thing, the Democrats
might've won and the world would be a better place....
\_ Er. no. if only the democrats had actually talked about the
shit that the current administration has pulled, and continues
to pull, in the corporate and foreign policy circles. but the
democrats have their heads too deep in just as many people's
pockets to do that, so... welcome to hell. --scotsman
\_ So what you're really saying is the Democrats don't have a real
platform other than "the Republicans are eeeeevil so vote for
us!"? Is that what you're saying? Maybe the Senate will finally
do it's job and pass some bills and confirm some judges instead
of playing politics with important issues.
\_ I am so waiting for some independent billionare to put a
bounty out for scandalous material to sink all of these bastards.
--erikred
\_ Oh the horror - tax cuts, school vouchers, privatizing
Social Security. I've heard these are all signs of the Armageddon,
can anyone confirm this?
\_ I'm pretty sure Nostradamus said something about this.
\_ 47th quatrain. Something about Caesar rendering under to
the people that which is theirs leading to the earth opening
and fire and brimstone rising to cloud the sun.
\_ No, but it's a step in the right direction for a Cyberpunk
future. |
| 2002/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26417 Activity:high 72%like:26435 |
11/5 damnit, it's november 5. it is your civic duty to
1) vote
2) troll the motd about it.
3) get really agitated about other peoples trolls and
rant for half a screen about it.
\_ Actually I disagree with #1. it is not your civic duty to vote.
It is your civic duty to cast your ballot after educating yourself
on the issues and candidates and making an informed decision. If
you're just going to blindly vote for some party or blindly vote
on some proposition you haven't read or don't understand then
please do us all and yourself a favor and stay home.
\_ What is the Freeper list of endorsements? I want to vote that.
\_ Find the Chronicle's list online and vote the opposite. |
| 2002/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26402 Activity:very high 80%like:26397 |
11/4 http://www.fairvote.org End the 2 party system. \_ Yes it's a much better system. Now if I could see something indicating how to do it. Changes to the Constitution are ...difficult. San Francisco enacting the instant runoff system was a hopeful thing to see, though. \_ Fuck that noise. The two party system has given us a stable and functional government for 200+ years. What? You want something like what Italy has? Get stuffed. \_ They done brain-washed you real good. \_ Ad hominen is a waste of bits. Go to Italy. The last thing this country needs is extremists in office that PR allows to happen. Government and voting is about getting a functional stable government, not about letting every little 2 bit crack pot group that can garner 3% of the vote a say in governing the 97% of the normal people. \_ The cutoff wouldn't have to be 3%, and if it was, that wouldn't affect you because 3% of congress can't force the rest to do anything. \_ You mean like how if some crackpot group had only 3 Senators right now that would be ok with you? Nutty. \_ I want something like The Netherland, Belgium or Germany has. \_ I don't know about the first two but German government is in the shitter. \_ Strangely enough, most reasonably stable democracies I can think of tend towards a two party system, both of which tend to gravitate very close towards each other, except in times of economic crisis (take Turkey), at which point they get replaced by...another two parties. France, Germany, the UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, Israel... there's usually a rightist and a leftist party, with some smaller ones sniping from the sidelines. The only difference being that the countries with parliamentary as opposed to three-branch systems of government tend to see coalitions with a whole bunch of smaller parties... -John \_ You are right, and the two parties "gravitate" as close together as possible. Just like gas stations. -crebbs \_ Does parliamentary necessarily equal proportional representation by party? i.e. by "parliamentary systems" do you mean those Where if a party gets 10% of the vote it gets 10% of the reps? And is that a common understanding of "parliamentary" versus US-style democracy?? \_ no. \_ No. Parliamentary in this case meaning a system lacking separation between legislative and executive branch (i.e. the prime minister is chosen by the legislative, with no or only a weak president to balance it out--Germany, the UK, and Israel are examples. As for proportional representation, I think most major democracies require at that at least an initial hurdle in terms of vote percentage be cleared for a person to obtain a seat. Whether this is done on a per candidate or per party basis differs. -John \_ That's fine that there are two major parties, but that's a lot different than ONLY two parties. This country gets lowest-common denominator politics, whereas in for example Germany small parties like the Greens can and do get representatives in the gov't. Essentially there's 0.01% chance of another party getting any power, and this directly lends itself to corruption and special interest politics. \_ Many people see it as a good thing that an extremist minority party like the Greens don't have any power in this country. If you and enough others like the Greens so much they'll get some power. But they won't because they don't represent enough nutcases to allow them to ruin anything for the rest of the country. I laughed my ass off when the German Green party got into power. It was the end of Germany's chances at \_ Shhh! He hadn't figured that part out yet! recovering and becoming a great nation anytime soon. \_ It's not about extremist minorities you buffoon. Look at California; with PR you would see more conservative representation. \_ I don't want to see more of any representation. I want to see a functional and stable government which is still responsible to the people. PR fails the first and part of the second. Idiotic response from clueless third party purged from motd. \_ This is cool. Don't mathematicians study voting systems? Can anyone recommend a mathematics text on voting? \_ http://www.ctl.ua.edu/math103 \_ Yeah, yeah, we all read slashdot. Troll harder. |
| 2002/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:26399 Activity:nil |
11/3 A few good reasons for SFers to vote yes on prop N:
http://csua.org/u/4c6 --from http://sfgate.com -urld |
| 2002/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26397 Activity:high 80%like:26402 |
11/4 http://www.giantleap.org/envision/pr4.htm http://www.fairvote.org End the 2 party system. \_ Yes it's a much better system. Now if I could see something indicating how to do it. Changes to the Constitution are ...difficult. San Francisco enacting the instant runoff system was a hopeful thing to see, though. \_ Fuck that noise. The two party system has given us a stable and functional government for 200+ years. What? You want something like what Italy has? Get stuffed. \_ They done brain-washed you real good. \_ Strangely enough, most reasonably stable democracies I can think of tend towards a two party system, both of which tend to gravitate very close towards each other, except in times of economic crisis (take Turkey), at which point they get replaced by...another two parties. France, Germany, the UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, Israel... there's usually a rightist and a leftist party, wich some smaller ones sniping from the sidelines. The only difference being that the countries with parliamentary as opposed to three-branch systems of government tend to see coalitions with a whole bunch of smaller parties... -John \_ You are right, and the two parties "gravitate" as close together as possible. Just like gas stations. -crebbs \_ Does parliamentary necessarily equal proportional representation by party? i.e. by "parliamentary systems" do you mean those Where if a party gets 10% of the vote it gets 10% of the reps? And is that a common understanding of "parliamentary" versus US-style democracy?? |
| 2002/11/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26395 Activity:insanely high |
11/3 Even though in California my vote is meaningless I still plan to vote:
Yes: .
No : .
Already have : .
\_ Practically useless, yes. Meaningless, no.
\_ you can directly affect the quality of your life by
voting for or against the measures on your local ballot,
even in California. - danh
\_ Not really. You can believe that if you want but you're just
one tiny grain on a huge beach. No one will miss you.
\_ Political BS aside, Bush's margin of victory came down
to a few hundred Florida voters. And more locally, the
90 Berkeley mayoral race came down to 12 votes short of
50% in the main, and less than a hundred in the runoff.
Sometimes one vote does matter.
\_ yeah, and it's pretty predictable where that can
happen. both parties knew florida was going
to be close, as did the press and anyone who
followed politics. i live in a state where neither
party even bothered to campaign, and, as predicted,
one party beat the other by tens of percentage points.
my vote in that election did not count for shit,
thanks to the electoral college system.
\_ Please, don't vote, be my guest. The more morons like you
stay out, the more my opinions will matter.
\_ And you figure your opinion counts how? You're a genius!
That's the very topic we're trying to discuss until you
came along and simply decided it because you're so smart!
\_ How is it meaningless?
\_ Because this is such a heavily Democrat state there's no point
in voting for anything. All the Democrats will win so why
is reelected. COmpanies are fleeing this state in untold #'s
bother?
\_ Meaningless depends on party affiliation. I'm a democrat.
\_ Damn commie. In ten years CA will be in the dumps if Davis
is reelected. COmpanies are fleeing this state in untold
#'s
\_ So am I. So what? Your vote is still meaningless. As if
your going makes a damned bit of difference. Your party
has nothing to do with it. I guess if you're Green then
it could matter but everyone else is wasting their time.
\_ But imagine if more and more democrats started to
believe that, eventually they'd start losing.
\_ Yeah if like 85% of them did that, maybe. I can't
imagine it. It's too silly.
\_ that is why I don't particularly believed in democracy.
Having said that, I would have to say in the case of United States
democracy has worked pretty well. And if you accept the
"democracy" which the founding fathers has envisioned, you
probably would have less complaint. It was not meant for
people of common at begin with, so, embrace it.
\_ How to govern country? Mass executions and state security?
\_ This isn't China, thanks.
\_ I was making fun of the awful nonsensical English
of the post I was responding to.
\_ how good is your Chinese?
\_ Doesn't matter. This is an American hosted computer
at an American University and you're writing in what
is supposed to be English. How well the poster knows
or writes Chinese is about as meaningful as how long
you've had herpes (sorry about that, I swear I didn't
know I was shedding virus at the time).
\_ Insulting someone who has a better command of
two languages than you do, for not having a good
enough command of the language, is rather
curious.
\_ Get over it, nobody gives a shit how well
he speaks chinese.
\_ Oh really? See above...
\_ *laugh* Yes, a motd poll. That's a real
good way to measure anything here. I'm
*sure* the motd poll is a pure gold
standard quality measurement just like
voting in Broward, FL. How fucking funny
you'd fall back on a motd poll for
'proof' of anything.
\_ wan ba dan, gai si.
\_ Get a life. |
| 2002/11/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26394 Activity:moderate |
11/3 the town i live in votes for mayor every two years. this week
we will vote on a measure to change the term length to four years.
proponents say this will allow the mayor to focus on more long term
issues than the next election, and opponents say that longer terms
just mean more corruption. both cite other cities that have
very corrupt city government with either a strong mayor or
weak mayor model. what does the motd think? right now, our
city government works better than most(obviously i don't live
in berkeley).
\_ If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But I'd think that a four year
model would work better. If the mayor really sucks, you could
always try and force a resignation or early elections.
\_ you can never get rid of someone before their term. dont be
naive.
\_ I am not a crook.
\_ Whatever, as if your mayor is going to send operatives
into the political opposition's hotel room. Anyway, this
sort of thing happens all the time now and no one gives a
shit anymore. See Harkin. |
| 2002/10/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26250 Activity:nil |
10/18 http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4310500.htm The problem isn't ``foreigners taking our jobs,'' it's ``American companies can get IT work done more cheaply overseas.'' \_ Why go overseas when you can pick up H1Bs here who are afraid of packing themselves and their families up and moving back to the home country? It's a little more pricey, but you have greater control over the product, the employee, and avoid middleman markup? \_ All work can be done more cheaply overseas. This includes medical care, manufacturing, and so on. Cost-of-living is cheaper there and so are wages. The problem is what happens when everyone has been outsourced. Who will keep the US economy afloat then? --dim \_ I'm curious about how you would outsource medical care. Fly people to Taiwan? -tom \_ Lots of people go to Mexico for medical care. The point being that doctors in Mexico make less than doctors here, even though it's a skilled and valuable profession. Everything costs less to do somewhere else. --dim \_ It's not hard for Kaiser-style medical care. You call Kaiser saying you are very sick and you want to make an appointment to see a doctor, and the guy on the phone keeps on asking you if you feel this and if you feel that, telling you it's no big deal and go get some over-the-counter medicine and drink lots lots of water, and bye. If you insist on making an appointment, he'll tell you there's a slot in three months. Then you're left dying and he gets a bonus for turning yet another patient away and saving the company money. For this kind of medical care, it's easy to outsource to any English- speaking country with a phone network. |
| 2002/10/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26240 Activity:high |
10/17 3 votes against the asian chick. Racism!
\_ stay angry! http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html
\_ What about Terilyn Joe? |
| 2002/10/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26231 Activity:high |
10/17 Deregulation is good for you, just trust us:
http://csua.org/u/416
\_ nonsense. California never deregulated. If you don't know the
*very* basic facts that were all over the newspapers then give it
up, trollboy.
\_ Name an industry that is deregulated then.
\_ Duh, there aren't any. Some are more regulated than others
but what the numbskulls in CA did was nothing even remotely
close to deregulation. |
| 2002/10/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26190 Activity:very high |
10/15 What's a phone # to dial that'll tell you the number you're calling
from? I've seen a phone technician do it a couple of times.
\_ 114 works for me.
\_ it's called an ANI (auto number id). that should help your
search on GOOGLE. --aaron
\_ Doesn't *69 automatically dial the number for you?
\_ Uhh no, it would dial the LAST number who called you. OP
wants to know the phone number he/she is dialing from.
I think it used to be 1-800-346-0152, which is a 'loopback'
phone number used by PacBell technicians to test newly-
installed phone line. If you run into one of them, just ask.
It's not a secret..
\_ Answer is in here:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANAC |
| 2002/10/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26176 Activity:insanely high |
10/14 anybody have experience whistle blowing or getting a news organization
to write about something using internal info? My company is laying off
american workers here and hiring a shitload of indian programmers.
What the fuck? I want more coverage on shit like this.
\_ Are they laying off workers in the US and hiring them for the
office in india?
\_ Time to look for another job. Based on my experience with h1b fops
(as opposed to h1bs with grad degrees from a US school), they are
probably the only group of programmers on earth worse than the
'1337 GN00/L1NUX crowd. Placing products in h1b hands invariably
means buggy code that is delivered late. Buggy products that are
late don't sell well in most markets, which will lead to the
untimely demise of your company (sold or bankrupt). Save yourself,
look for another job.
\_ on another note, what do you think of illegal immigrants
\_ By "Indian" the OP meant Indians with H1-Bs, not Indian-Americans,
right? Then why would the Chronicle find such a story
being charged in-state tuition at state funded colleges
in California?
\_ If we charge them out-of-state tuition then we might
hurt their feelings which would be bad.
\_ duh, ship them home. fucking ridiculous.
\_ what about http://www.fuckedcompany.com
\_ heh, one way or another they'll be listed on fc eventually.
\_ Your best bet is probably Salon. Any mainstream news organization
is going to avoid stories like these. A friend of mine wrote a
story on this topic for The Chronicle and the next week her boss
called in to his office and told her she would be fired if she
kept writing controversial stuff like that.
\_ I wonder if your friend is covered by any sort of whistleblower
laws? What company was it?
\_ By "Indian" the OP meant Indians with H1-Bs, not Indian-
Americans, right? Then why would the Chronicle find such a story
objectionable?
\_ H1Bs are only to be used when local employees don't exist.
\_ Don't be naive. It never works like that.
\_ Exactly, and so why would the Chronicle find it offensive
to expose this employer's bad behavior? [formatd]
\_ I got the feeling that it had annoyed some important
advertisers.
\_ Maybe try to get the laid-off people to sue.
\_ After lawyer and uncle Sam, you arent going to get much out
of the law suit even if you won, at the expense of no one
ever want to hire you in the future.
\_ what's wrong with that?
\_ for starters its against the law....
\- What law is it against? --psb
\_ You can't replace citizens with H1b's. The law that
creates the H1b program defines when they can be legally
used. Replacing Americans isn't it.
\- maybe you should become a steel worker.
\_ maybe the scumbags who are illegally letting in
foreigners should following the fucking law and get
punished when they violate it?
\- what do you mean by "scumbags illegally letting
in foreigners"? if you mean cracking down on say
emplyers hiring illegal immigrant farm workers,
domestic help and such, i agree with you ... that
is certainly more efficient, but politcally naturally
it is unpalatable to crack down on the white collar
nanny-hiring set ... as it is easier to go after
poor drug dealers rather than raiding suburban
coke parties. i thought you were talking about
is taking at the moment? What if an American worker is
available for say $70K to do the job that H1Bs will
do for only $40/year? There are companies that
legal aliens? --psb
\_ If an H1b is allowed in to the country to replace
an American worker that is an illegal use of the
H1b visa, therefore the H1b person is here
illegally and the company sponsor has broken the
law. The first should be deported and the other
needs some legal punishment. That's what I mean.
vote themselves in as politicians as soon as they get 51% of the
voting population, then vote to change the flag and the national
language. It's winning the war without fighting. -ax
\_ By the way, how can you tell whether an H1B worker is
replacing an American or taking a job that one else
is taking at the moment? What if an American worker
is available for say $70K to do the job that H1Bs
will do for only $40/year? There are companies that
wouldn't afford to hire an american for $70K/year
anyways but I can imagine that there might be
companies that can afford to pay $70K per year to an
American worker but still try to get a "free ride" by
hiring an H1B worker.
\_ It's based on the concept of 'market rate' not
what some cheap ass company can 'afford'.
\_ Exactly. What's wrong with replacing every single worker in
this country with a lower cost imported worker, then have them
vote themselves in as politicians as soon as they get 51% of
the voting population, then vote to change the flag and the
national language. It's winning the war without fighting. -ax
http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/Horror.htm
\- h1b workers cannot vote [which i think is proper]. also
"infiltrating the electorate" and then "voting for change
have one million IT jobs lost, and there are only one million IT jobs
left. So you fire the one million US workers since they are "more
expensive" and keep the one miliion H1B's. Fair? -ax
is probably a lot less efficient than just lobbying with $
oh wait you are only interesting in restricting the
influence of poor people without the money to lobby? --psb
\_ Anyone who shows at a polling place can vote. When I
voted the last few times (each in a different county), I
simply pointed at my name on their list and voted.
\_ there was a lot of h1b bashing on craigslist, but one tidbit of
info was a suit against Sun for laying off am. workers but keeping
and/or hiring foreign workers. I'm sure that you if gave real hard
evidence to those being laid off that they could sue the company
for lotsa $$$. rather than face publicity, a company usually will
settle with the employees that sued. some employees sign away their
right to sue when they agree to a severance package. give these
people a smoking gun now before it's too late.
\_ Imagine this scenario: There are one million IT workers. The
economy doubles, one million H1B visa workers are added. Now there
are two million IT workers. The economy goes in the toilet, we now
have one million IT jobs lost, and there are only one million IT
jobs left. So you fire the one million US workers since they are
"more expensive" and keep the one miliion H1B's. Fair? -ax
\_ please try to constrain your scenarios to something approaching
reality. Companies for the most part don't prefer H1B workers
to "real 'merricuns", which is why H1B applications have dropped
drastically since the dotcom bust. -tom
\_ how the hell would *you* know? you *ever* worked outside the
cozy warm fuzzy walls of academia?
\_ We should have formed a union when the economy was strong. Then
we'd be like those dockworkers. -ausman
\_ Some folks talked about it at the time. Where were you?
\_ You should have contacted me. I could never find anyone
else interested.
\_ Partha seems to think so.
\_ Of course not, but is firing one million H1Bs and not firing
a single American fair? Is it feasible, and would that make
sense? If you are an employer and you have two employees,
1 an H1B and the other an American citizen or PR. Both of
them have worked at the company for 3 years. Let's assume that
H1B is the better employee in terms of skills and dedication.
So you decide to layoff the American citizen. Would you
consider that as breaking the law?
\_ Is it fair to fire everyone H1b before a single American?
Yes. That's what the law says. That's the risk the H1b
takes when coming here on an H1b. (or is supposed to be
taking) Your hypothetical situation is not what the H1b
covers or has anything to do with. Of course you keep your
H1b DBA and lay off the American janitor.
\_ I disagree. I think it should only be during hiring
when the American should have preference over an H1B
worker. The preference should not exist when deciding
whom to layoff. When hiring, American workers are,
in principle, protected by the requirement that a H1B
worker's salary meets prevailing wages requirements.
Breaking the law: "Hiring a H1B worker to replace an
American citizen." Not breaking the law: "Firing
an American citizen instead of a H1B worker based
on performance and merit."
\_ You realise that in an at-will job market like CA, your
plan has about, oh, 5.7 zillion loop holes in it? And
that's still not the law.
\- what do you suggest is fair in that scenario? seniority only?
cut everyone back to 20hrs/week? i realize this often fails
but i think companies do have some sense to look at efficiency
not just expense ... so if you are 50% more productive but
make 30% more than a h1b, then you should be secure. now if
the problem is you arent that much more productive, then you
do have a problem. but except for the nationlistic aspect this
is the same thing middle-aged people with "20yrs experience"
whine about when some kid whose only friend is his PS2 replaces
him ... because the kid is willing to work until 10pm and on
weekends in exchange for free tshirts and soda. --psb
\_ The H1b is supposed to be making market rate. If he's not
then we have yet another illegal hiring by the company.
\- 30% difference is within "market rate" i believe.
we're not talking about shipping a job overseas where
they may be making less by an order of mag.
\_ 30% spread for the same job title/skills/experience is
*nothing* like market rate.
\_ Americans should come first, that is the point. What other
\- how about "white people"? should white people come first too?
country shows us any real generosity? Why should we be making
citizens of other countries rich? -ax
\- i wouldnt chalk this up to "generosity" but one
interpretation of part ofthe h1b phenomenon is
the indian govy is subsidizing the education
for us high tech workers. --psb
\_ say what? how do you figure *that*?
\_ cuz like dude it's all one world. you should spend your time
creating free software with no compensation so these other
countries can use that too.
\_ D00D U R 50 R1GH7! FR33 D3B14N GN00/L1NUX 4 3V3RY1!
\_ While all of you fuckheads were arguing I went out and started a
company, sold it and am now typing this from my beach house in
Tahiti. Just thought you should know.
\_ How fast is the internet in Tahiti? Do you have a
fiber line or are you stuck with a sat. uplink?
\_ I have a T-1, but it's pretty damn pricey.
\_ He got his T1 from me. I'm running a few sat. phones
from the beach house he's renting from me and told him
it was a full T1, just slow because of the distance.
\_ are you the guy who wrote OrCAD on his apple ][ in 6th grade? |
| 2002/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:26158 Activity:high |
10/11 Do the Democrats have no shame? Character assassination forces
Montana Republican out of race:
link:csua.org/u/3ea
\_ The quote at the end is the only thing that makes any sense in
the whole article.
\_ Yes, I'm sure the head of a gay rights group would say that and
I'm not at all surprised that a motd poster would find that the
only thing that makes sense.
\_ Hint: smear campaigning isn't unique to the DNC.
\_ URL or example please.
\_ If something as paltry as that was enough to force him out of the
race, he didn't belong in it to begin with.
\_ It was Montana. It wasn't paltry. If he's smart, he's already
loaded everything he owns and hit the road before a mob kills
him. Death isn't paltry.
\_ uh, how is showing actual footage of the candidate "character
assassination"?
\_ No cookie.
\_ The music running behind the ad wasn't part of the actual footage.
\_ What about just looking ugly? Bill Simon looks pretty nasty in those
slow-mo, black&white Davis ads.
\_ I don't know why Davis bothers. Simon has a base of people who
would vote for him simply because he's not Davis. Nothing will
change that. Davis should be more worried about his own
negatives because if he loses it'll be because too many stayed
home or voted communist/green because Davis stinks too much. |
| 2002/10/9 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26141 Activity:nil |
10/10 do they have crispy creme(sp?) donut stores in northern california? |
| 2002/10/5 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26106 Activity:high |
10/4 i know that most ppl sign an at-will contract with their high tech
employers, but can an employer let you go and might possibly hire
someone without cause (other than perhaps "don't like you" or "don't
like your attitude")? if not and they did, is there anything that one
can do? and, will you be able to get umemployment benefit?
\_ If you're not in a union, you're at will in CA. You can ask a
labor lawyer or the CA state labor board (or whatever it's called).
If fired = no unemployment. If laid off = yes unemployment.
\_ At will doesn't really mean at will. They can't fire you because
you're too old, or because you're black, or because you won't give
a blow job to the boss, or whatever... you have rights.
\_ Don't be naive. They won't put "fired: old, black, lousy bjs"
on your exit forms. You're in CA. You're at will.
\_ But can they fire you if you won't get a blowjob from the boss?
\_ Yes. They can fire you for not accepting your boss's offer
of a mandatory bj. You're at-will. You can be fired for
absolutely anything. |
| 2002/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26093 Activity:high |
10/3 This is yet another reason to not vote Libertarian:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Central/10/02/candidate.blue.skin.ap/index.html
\_ My friend just emailed this to someone who takes that stuff
and that guy got *really* defensive.
\_ Yeah well wait til he turns purple... permanently. |
| 2002/10/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:26086 Activity:very high |
10/2 http://csua.org/u/36e See, that's what's wrong with America. An entreprenuer tries to make a little money by starting his own business with some willing adults and the whiney liberal trial lawyers screw it up for him. \_ It's called exploitation. Would it be right for you to ask a homeless woman to have sex with you if you gave her a sandwich in return? We have laws against that. \_ That's pretty sick all right. Ewww. \_ How do you feel about Professional boxing? Should Don King be arrested as well? I know tom thinks it's o.k. 'cause The Man gave Don's org a license. How about you? Also, if some homeless woman wants to trade her body so she DOESN'T STARVE TO DEATH, It sure is a good thing there are people like you around to make sure she isn't "forced" to do anything as horrible as having sex. \_ No one is this country has starved to death since the depression. Try again. \_ Ah yes, the ambulance chasing lawyers read the net, too. \_ Maybe they can sneak a video cam in to prison and produce Prison Fights. \_ Want to star in my new movie? You and 1000 felons. I'm calling it Prison Rape. \_ everything else aside, only in america would this happen. you don't find this fucked up behavior like this in any other country. \_ No, you find much worse, like death squads, people going to vote risking their lives to do so, UN sanctioned slavery, stonings for a long list of 'moral' violations, etc. Take the Blame America First crap somewhere else where they don't know better. |
| 2002/10/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26071 Activity:high |
10/1 I think the 2 party system has got to go. When two crooks are put up
at the local level and people pick between them, the whole crookedness
just filters on up to the top. It's time to stop electing reps or dems
to congress.
\_ run.
\_ ... for the hills.
\_ Join the Reform Party.
\_ the 'my vote doesn't count for shit, it just takes away votes
from one of the other two major parties' party ? Or was that the
'take votes away freom the DEM party so GWB can win' party?
\_ Ross Perot had no impact on either election, other than
for talk show material. He stole from both parties.
\_ RP took 3 (R) votes for every (D) vote.
\_ It turns out that chairman of the CA state Reform party lives
in Sunnyvale and is named Paul Hale. When I moved to Sunnyvale, I
didn't know this, and I foolishly had my number listed in the phone
book. So now I constantly get calls by a bunch of lame fucks who
\_ Yeah Italty is a great example of highly efficient and
actually want to run for president. Let's just say that I'd rather
have our current two-party system instead of the lame and scary
assholes I've had a chance to talk to. -phale
\_ Much better would be to have a European style parliament system
where nutbags like the greens can actually gain seats and have power
in the government.
\_ Like Italy! Powerful government!
\_ Yeah Italy is a great example of highly efficient and
functional government. Got a 100% voting rate too because
voting is mandatory if you want a job, government services or
to be a part of society in just about any way.
\_ So in Italy there's no right to remain slient?
\_ Bah, you're looking at it the wrong way. You want to elect the
crooked guy who helps you out the most. |
| 2002/9/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:26052 Activity:high |
9/30 What does "neo-liberalism" mean?
\_ google "what does newliberal mean", "I'm feeling lucky":
http://tiss.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de/webroot/sp/barrios/themeA2a.html
Essentially I think it means economically liberal... which means
a hands-off type approach to economics... so free-market-type
stuff. I think this type of liberal ecnomic policy is now
considered somewhat conservative (as "liberals" believe in more
hands-on type of economies), hence the term "neo-liberal". This
is essentially what libretarians are: economically conservative (eg
neo-liberal), but socially liberal (in the tradtional sense).
\_ I think a better term for libertarians is "nutcases"
\_ another term is "half of the csua"... sad but true, computer
geeks love ayn rand.
\_ I never read Ayn Rand in my life. Does that mean I'm not
a computer geek? I don't even know what her beliefs are.
\_ There's nothing wrong with the basic libertarian premise of
minimal government. They just take it too far. That's the
nutcase part. Sort of like how democrats would have a 100%
confiscatory tax or republicans would allow big business to
bring back slavery if allowed free reign.
\_ Some libertarians are more extreme than others. It's
obviously equally silly to equate the entire movement
with the fringes, for democrats, republicans, or
libertarians. A conservative libertarian is very hard
to tell from a moderate republican.
\_ No, that's not what 'libretarians' are. Libertarians believe
in a hands off approach both economically and socially. Ayn
Rand is an objectivist, not a libertarian. All objectivists
are libertarian, but not all libertarians are objectivists.
And incidentally, you are all uninformed morons. -- libertarian
\_ your attitude illustrates why most people dislike
libertarians. it's not just an ideological difference,
it's that most libertarians seem to be assholes.
\_ Better to be an asshole than wrong. That's the whole
premise of being a libertarian. |
| 2002/9/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26024 Activity:high |
9/27 Mexico has more billionaires than England, and yet...
'Bill could bring relief for U.S.-Mexico border hospitals'
http://csua.org/u/320
'Dealing with the High Cost of Health Care'
http://csua.org/u/31f
\_ some of the richest people in the world live in some of the
worst-off countries in the world. this is by no means a
coincidence.
\_ But only a handful overall.
\_ "In Mexico, the top 1 percent own 50 percent of the wealth."
http://www.lalabor.org/Mayor_Riordan.html
The URL is largely irrelevent, but that fact is from there.
And there are many more and crazier statistics than this. Its
called the growing gap between rich and poor. Learn about it.
In fact, statistics like the one you mention often only attest
to things being worse not better since it says more about how
rampant corruption there is than how rich the nation is.
\_ In the US, nearly 50% of the population pay no federal income
tax. That's scarier, IMO.
\_ For reference: "Taxpayers in the bottom half paid only 4
percent of income taxes in 1999, according to the IRS."
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/taBx.htm
Here I don't know whether "taxpayer" means people/couples who
filed fed tax returns, or people/couples who actually had to
pay some tax. Either way, it probably doesn't include those
who didn't file returns.
\_ So what? They still have to pay payroll taxes.
\_ The point is a voting majority who can impose more taxes on
the voting minority with no consequence (indirectly of
course, since voters don't introduce legislation federally,
but since more and more the answer of the day is
policy-by-poll, I'm worried).
\_ The point is a voting majority who can impose more taxes
on the voting minority with no consequence (indirectly
of course, since voters don't introduce legislation
federally, but since more and more the answer of the day
is policy-by-poll, I'm worried).
\_ Yea, the number of votes should be based on the
amount of tax paid.
\_ Who was it that said democracy is only ok until the
voting slobs figure out they can vote themselves
goodies at other people's expense? We're at that
point in history right now. I know you're being
sarcastic but it doesn't work when there's a huge
disconnect between the power to vote and influence
government and the costs associated with those same
votes. Something to chew on.
\_ Alexander Tyler. I think. ~peterm/.plan
\_ There's *always* been a huge gap between the rich and poor.
When exactly do you think this wasn't so?
\_ It has grown larger in the last 50 years:
http://epinet.org/datazone/01/incshare.pdf
\_ Not the last 50 years. I meant through all of recorded
history. The last 50 years is barely a statistical blip.
\_ The real issue is why do we need to spend more US taxpayer dollars
to take care of some other country's ill citizens? |
| 2002/9/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26019 Activity:high |
9/26 Let's say a certain state wants to split from the US and become a
separate country, is there any legal way to do it? Can it run a
popular vote within the state, similar to what Quebec did?
\_ yes, there is a process for this.
\_ No, there is no way to do this. Some tried it in the mid 1800's (you
may have heard of it) but it didn't work.
\_ you can create an amendment to do almost anything.
\_ It would never pass. Once you join the Union, you're in for
good. Think of it like the GPL.
\_ whether it would pass or not is a separate issue. The
question is whether there is a legal way to do it. There
is, even if it is quite unlikely.
\_ No. There is no way currently to do it legally
(with the exception of Texas, actually).
\_ I thought New Hampshire or Vermont also had the
mythical "escape clause"? Also, if you're going
go get into legal technicalities, I believe
international law would permit HI and CA to
secede, as they were annexed (albeit with the
consent of their respective governments at the
time) -John
\_ Huh -- that's pretty interesting. I'll have
to look into this more. Thanks! -mice
\_ http://www.siptn.org/April/williams.htm
Take the above with grain of salt. |
| 2002/9/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Consumer/Camera, Computer/Networking] UID:26003 Activity:moderate |
9/25 Okay, going to ask this again since it got nuked while I was rudely
getting my beauty sleep--looking for tips on placement of 802.11b
APs (5 AirPorts in a mid-sized building with ca. 70 clients.) Also,
curious whether it's best to use the same frequency on all APs
or increment it, and whether there's a common method used by clients
to pick an AP if they receive signals from several. ok tnx. -John
\_ It's in the motd archives.
\_ Where are the motd archives?
\_ this question has been asked before... check the archives. |
| 2002/9/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Media] UID:25995 Activity:very high |
9/24 Soon, all news and media content will be controlled by one super-
company called Disney-ABC-CNN-AOL-Time-Warner, a division of Fox
Broadcasting (okay, I made that last part up).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2279094.stm
\_ At least Fox will be a porn network someday.
\_ You mean it isn't already?
\_ "Hi! I've never actually watched but I'm going to mouth off
about something I might have heard something about once in
a weak attempt to look way kewl to my equally empty headed
'friends' on the motd!" Go home. Fuck yermom. It's your
best and last hope.
\_ Cool, can you get that show on Fox?
\_ On the PPV Fox channel, yes.
\_ "Hi! I'm a festering asshole!" Go away. You're not
interesting.
\_ The truth is rarely interesting. It's much more fun
to just make shit up. You'd know about that.
\_ You mean it isn't already? --poster who's watched Fox
\_ You have a weird idea of what pr0n is. Is your
ideal 'h0t nekkid chik' a man about age 38, vote
republican and wear a grey suit? I pity you.
\_ Which will go down the drain within 18 months leaving us with a
variety of independent news sources, thank god.
\_ i wish there was a way to pay for a subscription to
a specific *journalist* with out dealing with any
paper or network. i'd be willing to pay quite a bit
of cash if i really thought i could get competent,
unedited reporting from it. i wish some journalists
with integrity would try this. i'm sure i'm not the only
one. i'm so sick of the lies and fluff.
\_ Watch or listen to the BBC. --dim
\_ Could you add a URL? Google wasn't too helpful. Thanks.
\_ Yeah, that way you can watch foreigners bash the US instead
of seeing US Citizens doing the hatchet job.
\_ I like The Week magazine. It publishes excerpts from all
over the world and from across the political specrum. If
you only read the output of one journalist, you wouldn't
want to get a balanced perspetive, you need to read from
be reading much, though maybe someday you could mix and
match as you saw fit. -ausman
\_ right wing bs. read World Press Review instead.
\_ I have never heard of that publication before, thanks
for letting me know about it. The Week isn't exactly
right wing bs, though it is pretty mainstream. It is
at least a more or less independent voice. If you really
want to get a balanced perspective, you need to read from
all over the spectrum like The Nation and The Economist.
But I try to avoid stuff published by the megacorps. -a
\_ Those happen to be the two mags that I read! --elite
\_ Uhm, just because they publish things from the right does
not mean they have a "right wing bias". They publish
from the entire spectrum. Does it hurt your little brain
to read material from a different perspective sometimes?
It's always easier to just read the same self-reinforcing
swill everyday. No thought required. No challenge. |
| 2002/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25942 Activity:nil |
9/18 Mexico is totally fucked.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26545-2002Sep16.html
\_ what mexico and many other country need is chinese communist
party. Democracy my ass.
\_ agreed. in a time like this you need a ruthless leader
to crack down on crimes. After one or two generation, it
will get better. China was much worst before 1949. Now
it's one of the safest place, far better than any major
city in the US.
\_ China is one of the safest place now? It probably was twenty
years ago, but that's no longer the case now.
\_ Yeah let's bring in some iron fisted piece of shit to murder
all the annoying people, then we'll have peace and security at
the expense of freedom. We need peace with honor!
\_ if you mean horror, then ask anyone who lives in singapore
whether they feel horror or not. You know that
american fucker who painted a singapore bus? He got
what he deserved. You'll bet he'll never paint
another bus in singapore again. This is the kind of
law system Mexico need, not the one we have here.
\_ Punishment won't do jack if your cops are corrupt
or incompetant.
\_ Just like the southern part of the Phillipines.
\_ Mexico, like all South/Central American countries, was founded by
European aristocrats and, with no middle class, remains this way
today. A damning indictment of European 'enlightenment'. Mexico
is a wealthy country.
Except now, the wealthy are ridding their countries of the poor by
sending them to the U.S., where the US taxpayer bears the burden.
Unlike past waves of immigrants who started at the bottom and worked
their way up, the socialist Democrats now buy immigrant votes with
welfare. Import an underclass, nice scam at the expense of
American citizens.
\_ Pleeeezzzeee...the vast majority of illegals come here to work,
unlike lazy, fat americans, and they work the jobs no one, including
yourself, would take. And their low pay contributes to your cheap
meals, low cost produce, clean offices, etc, etc. It may make you
feel good to scapegoat them, but they are a priceless asset to
US businesses.
\_ Yes, a large percentage of them do come here to work. But
have you bothered to look at the welfare and crime
statistics in California, Texas and other border states?
More likely, you are just emoting a knee jerk reaction to
something of which you are completely ignorant. I post
statistics to the MOTD, but they are deleted, probably by
someone not unlike yourself.
Why do you think California is in a fiscal nightmare?
Ever hear of Prop. 187, and Davis's / Clinton's backroom
deal to nullify the will of the voters?
And frankly, allowing illegals is an insult to those who
come here through legal channels. What kind of message
does it send when you're existence in this country to begin
with flaunts statutes. 20% of Honduras' population is in
the United States.
Guess what Mexico has on its Southern Border - its MILITARY.
We have had border patrol agents murdered, two FBI agents
in critical condition just last week.
Controlled immigration yes. A porous border and unregulated
mass migration no, unless you like living in third world
shit holes. One more thing, jobs Americans won't take:
maybe you as a prissy dilletante won't do blue collar work
for a living, but ALOT, maybe MOST Americans will.
Fucking limousine liberal.
\_ Have you ever picked fruit for a living? Do you know
anyone that has? I didn't think so. No
wonder your "facts" get deleted, every other
word out of your mouth is a cuss word or a personal
attack. Learn to behave like a human being and you
will be treated like one. And California is doing fine,
in fact it is the state more Americans would like to
live in than any other.
\_ Very well though out, cogent reply to factual
statements made above - really.
Can you do anything except emote?
\_ But Jose...
\_ The reason you have cheap food is because the federal government
provides prices supports. They don't pay taxes and yet state/Fed
pays welfare, health care, social security, education ... |
| 2002/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/SIG, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25922 Activity:high |
9/17 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,63370,00.html And here's the party of division and hatred reaping what it has sown. It's a karma thing, kids. If they had real policies and stood by them instead of knitting together pseudo coalitions of minorities glued together with other people's tax dollars maybe the party wouldn't be directionless and in such terrible shape today. [If you can't dispute it, DELETE IT! restored] |
| 2002/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25904 Activity:very high |
9/17 Davis commercial says he'll restore the 40 hour work week.
Let's vote for him!
\_ Uhm, what?
\_ that's what the tv commercial said. I don't know more than
that.
\_ restore it from what?
\_ 9-track tapes
\_ Wasn't the 40 hr work week lost before that technology
was available?
\_ Screw the 40 hr work week, lets go with the EU standard of
a 35 hr work week.
\_ And a European quality economy that makes our current situation
look truly stellar and robust. Hey, anyone up for a garbage
strike nation wide?
\_ You don't want to dominate the world economy anymore?
\_ I'm just saying that if Gray wants to further limit
the CA businesses, he shouldn't stop with a 40 hr
work week, he should go all the way and embrace the
the 35 hr EU STANDARD! work week. |
| 2002/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25841 Activity:high |
9/11 Humor for the day: Florida again fucks up an election. I think this
should be a Two Strikes thing. We should rescind all elections in
Florida until they can figure out how to do it right. Even California
somehow manages with lower literacy rates and more people.
\_ What do you expect from a state run by "Jeb"?
\_ ok, what would you do to fix the problem if you were
governor of florida?
\_ Uh oh, lefty didn't read the news this morning.... Please go
read an article, any article, before sticking your agenda driven
foot in your mouth again.
\_ I'm not a lefty, just someone who likes making fun of morons.
Guess I hit a soft spot with you, eh?
\_ Uhm, no, you're a lefty and an idiot. your comeback is
incredibly weak. |
| 2002/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25783 Activity:high |
9/5 while some of you rally about memorializing 9/11, how about
some thought for those killed in Munich at the 1972 Olympic
Games 30 years ago? 2 killed on the morning of Sep 5 1972,
9 more the next day Sep 6 1972. 11 athletes killed.
\_ It's all fucked up. Get a grip.
\_ They were Jews. Not even American Jews.
\_ Sign your name, (coward|troll).
\_ will somebody please think of the children!!!!!
\_ Are they Jewish American children? Do they vote and donate?
\_ 2500+ dead and 85 billion in economic damage in NYC...
not even close! and anyway didn't the Mossad kill just
\_ that's 2500+ third-world oppressing, environment despoiling,
culturally hegemonistic, infidel american pigs. they deserve
to die.
about everyone involved in the Munich attacks eventually?
\_ Most didn't make it in the long term, yes.
\_ over a long enough period of time everyone's chances
of survival drop to zero.
\_ Ok, tell you what, you go kill yourself now because hey,
over the long term your survival odds are zero anyway,
right? I'll fly the plane with the gun toting pilot and
we'll both be happy. So, you're a dormy, right? This is
the kind of silly thing dormies would say in late night
drunken "debate" when discussing god, abortion, the death
penalty, and every other issue drunken dormies have
'solved' over the years.
\_ calm down. it's a quote from Fight Club.
\_ why quote stupid lines from movies very few people
saw?
\_ because i find it amusing to watch people
like you get agitated. please continue.
\_ We don't care about them non-Americans, you damned terrorist!
\_ ignoring ideology, how about looking at 1972 as
an example of how complacency and media-attention combine
to create a situation begging for exploitation by terrorists?
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0902/munich
\_ My God! You've discovered the mastermind behind the Munich
massacre! It's Siebler! |
| 2002/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:25657 Activity:insanely high |
8/22 try to figure this one out. "tax cuts are not spending restraint,
they are spending." Sen. Lieberman in Iowa recently.
\_ tax cuts would be restraint if there was not deficit spending.
spending cuts are spending restraint. tax cuts == more debt.
\_ his assertion here is that you are spending money by giving it
to whomever the tax cuts favor. typically, rich people.
\_ as opposed to cutting unemployment benefits and health
benefits which are spending restraint
\_ As opposed to giving free money to someone so they will
vote for you and for more money. Democrats core
philosophy is class warfare.
\_ Purpose of govt is the curb the strong and protect the weak
\_ No, the purpose of government is to maintain order,
PROTECT OUR BORDERS, enforce the law and otherwise stay
the fuck out of the way. Go read the federalist papers
or the constitution or *something*. Civics, it does a
body good.
\_ Republicans just give the money to their rich friends instead.
Which is class warfare too, just of a different kind.
\_ You are wrong, conservatives want the
people who EARNED the money to keep it. Imagine
that, rewarding initiative.
\_ Hah! See? You all hate poor people! Don't you know
that the rich have a moral obligation to take care of
the poor? You can afford it even if you're still
paying a greater share of taxes by percent of your
income, by percent of the total tax take, and by a few
other percent counting methods (all of them, actually),
even after all the so-called tax breaks. Vicious, evil
money grubbers just don't understand what it's like to
be put down by The Man all the time! Send more free
money I haven't earned and I'll vote for you! -Democrat
\_ Ah, so the guilty liberal conscious finally
rears its ugly head. You are more than welcome
to subsidize whoever you want, whatever you
want, whenever you want.
However, when you take 40% of my money by coercion
to pay for Socialized everything that is tyranny!
Don't you see the inherent racism in your
comment - the unwashed masses (eg. brown people)
need me, the gallant liberal, to define
their existence. Fucking disgusting.
\_ you're both unconvincing. the above troll
clearly is bullshitting, and i don't believe
you are really what you say you are either.
train harder.
\_ it wasn't a troll, moron. its called sarcasm
and maybe irony & a touch of hyperbole as
well. it isn't my fault if _both_ of you are
too stupid to see it. at least the Right
recognised the Left's philosophy in my
so-called troll, whereas the Left is incapable
of recognising what they look like outside
their tight little Anti-Think niche. -!troll
\_ Tax cuts are no different than spending as far as keeping a balanced
budget is concerned.
\_ However there is an important distinction between spending which
means draining the economy of money through taxes for some sort
of artificial redistribution plan (communism) and reducing taxes
which requires lowering spending across the board and reducing
the size of government (one of the things true conservatives
believe in). And who said a balanced budget is good anyway?
Debt is not always bad. It depends on how big your debt, at
what rate(s), for what purpose(s) and how much you need to pay
back vs. your income.
\_ We're paying something like 25-33% of our national income
toward interest on our debt. Is that good debt?
\_ Liar. Or ignorant fool.
\_ Well "something like" could mean anything from 0-100.
\_ I'm not a specialist in macro-economics. I have no idea.
\_ Artificial redistribution plans? Like farm subsidies?
\_ Actually, yes, like farm subsidies and welfare, and a
whole bunch of other stupid wasteful programs that destroy
this country's soul. Yes. Artificial redistribution.
\_ Yeah, and public education. Another communist plot.
\_ Actually, I knew some Berkeley students who did
denounce public education as "communist". It
baffles me that someone who thinks so low of
public education decided to go to Berkeley.
\_ Right thats why evil vouchers would
allow those who pay the taxes in the first
place to choose a school for their children.
Freedom of choice, that is anticommunist.
And have you bothered to investigate
any of the allegations made? Our public
education system is in ruin, despite an throwing
endless stream of money at it. Yet, you
never stop to ask yourself why that is.
\_ Wow -- you sound like a true libertarian.
Sign your posts, man. I'm curious to know
who you are -- honest-to-god libertarians are
rare -- esp in berkeley. -mice
\_ <DEAD>www.geekpad.org<DEAD> is a house full of 'em...
in berkeley.
\_ I'm not at all libertarian but I 100% agree
with the above on the totally worthless
public schools and vouchers. And btw, this
country didn't always have public schools, yet
somehow the earth kept spinning and the sun
rose in the east every morning. Go figure. |
| 2002/8/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25585 Activity:nil |
8/15 Republican states are all rural ghettoes:
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1280837
"Yet subsidies are, at best, a mixed blessing. They are robbing the
heartland of its spirit of initiative and entrepreneurship. Rural
ghettos now suffer from all the dependence-induced pathologies of
their urban cousins. They are also creating a sort of state-funded
feudalism that is the very antithesis of the American tradition of
rugged individualism. Huge quantities of government money flow to a
handful of landowners, most of them in Texas and California, who
preside over vast armies of ill-educated and poorly paid migrant
workers."
\_ What, then, does that make a city where transexual city employees
get their sex change operations paid for by the tax payers, where
HIV+ positives flock for FREE benefits, also at the expense of
the tapayers, and you have incontinent degenerates who extol
acts of public sodomy and pedophilia? And guess who started
those subsidies, the greatest socialist of them all - FDR.
Nothing like buying votes, its been perfected to an artform.
And it was your profligates Davis and Clintoon that
illegally annuled Prop. 187. As if you, or the author,
have even set foot in the rural areas you denigrate.
\_ ...you think anyone is going to take you seriously if you can't
come up with an insulting alternate spelling for davis as well
as clinton? train harder. |
| 2002/8/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25577 Activity:moderate |
8/15 When are strawberries in season?
\_ Depends where you live, and what sort of strawberries.
In CA, I'd say late may thru June. Some types of strawberries
bear all summer, though.
\_ You can usually get about three good crops through the summer
months. You should be able to find some now.
\_ This his is in CA or in CA-like climates. In central Russia,
for instance (the only other agricultural setting I know
well), there's only one usable season, circa first 3 weeks
of June. -alexf |
| 2002/8/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:25535 Activity:insanely high |
8/9 'Were economic data manipulated?'
No I don't believe it - more conspiracy.
http://csua.org/u/143
\_ If you continue to post myth smashing facts on the motd you're
going to get purged by the self appoint motd star chamber of one.
going to get purged by the self appointed motd star chamber of one.
\_ What makes you think they are telling the truth now?
\_ What makes you think they are telling the truth now? It seems just
as likely to me that the economy flew higher and crashed harder than
the government wants to admit, so they are trying to lower the
baseline a bit to hide the deep recession we are in now and
try to keep us out of a depresssion.
\_ ie. we need tax cuts, not increases in taxes ala
Gray Davis
\_ are you a "free market"er as well? |
| 2002/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:25287 Activity:moderate |
7/5 Looking for a place to go for cherry/strawberry/etc. picking around the
Bay Area. Ideally, it's a within a 3 hours drive. Anyone has any URLs
or recommentions? Searching with "California Cherry Picking Tourist"
and different combinations at Google didn't return anything useful.
\_ Do I just think the right way for google searches? I searched on:
pick cherries california tourism
and got a ton of stuff. --scotsman
\_ http://www.brentwoodfruit.com or
http://pages.prodigy.net/pwolfe
\_ I was told by a professor that brentwood is a great
place to go do something like that, in fact he recommended
it just as something to do for fun.
\_ http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/agritourism/agritour.html
http://calagtour.org/DETAIL.ASP?SiteNo=106
\_ http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/coastways |
| 2002/7/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25263 Activity:high |
7/2 Hillary votes in favor of using military force to free Americans
held by ICC. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-344149,00.html
\_ And?
\_ And I'm shocked and horribly disappointed she would vote for
this horrendous PR garbage.
\_ I can't believe the article didn't call the act by the name
given to it by some Europeans: The Netherlands Invasion Act.
\_ "The idea that its some right-wing paranoid fear about the
International Criminal Court (ICC) is not true."
Sigh... right wing has nothing to do with it. Those who are
against it in this country are those with the most to lose: the
corporations committing human rights violations the world over
and, by extension, the politicians who must back them to remain
in power. oh yeah, and the military by yet another extension
of the corporate structure.
\_Riiiiight. Include in there the people who believe that giving the
rest of the world the power to yank our chain whenever they like
isn't a good idea. Hell, when the UN can have a conference on
racism that condemns Jews (not to mention the Jenin fiasco), it
would be insane to give the current world forum any power, real or
imaginary over the US.
\_ "Condemns Jews"? Right. Any criticism of israel is anti-semitic. |
| 2002/5/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24948 Activity:moderate |
5/25 The Devil and Mr. Hicks
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/27/cover-cooper.shtml
\_ The news in this story is what? That as people grow wiser they see
the folly in the leftist agenda? Nothing new about that. |
| 2002/5/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:24937 Activity:kinda low |
5/24 Anyone knows a good place to play squash in San Jose area?
\_ on a related note how about badminton in east bay/SF (excl fremont)
\_ South San Francisco High School. Mondays ~6:30pm. -- yuen
http://www.usabadminton.org/page.asp?page=where%20to%20play%20guide&iStateId=5
\_ how do people who wear glasses play sports such as
badminton or squash -- contacts, special goggles, surgery? |
| 2002/5/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24846 Activity:high |
5/16 what ever happened to the hp/compaq merger vote? was there
there an outcome?
\_ I think it passed.
\_ so they've merged? there wasn't much news of it..
\_ They've already talked about which lines of laptops are
staying and which are scrapped. Forget which one is staying.
\_ uh, what? there's been plenty of news. stop relying on the
motd as your primary news source.
\_ Go to http://www.compaq.com |
| 2002/5/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24840 Activity:very high |
5/15 Grad student demograph-- grad student, 15% Asian, 51% White
undergrad student, 40% Asian, 30% White. What accounts for this?
http://opa.vcbf.berkeley.edu/IC/Campus.Stats/CampStats_F00/CS.F00.Table.F4.htm
http://opa.vcbf.berkeley.edu/IC/Campus.Stats/CampStats_F00/CS.F00.Table.F3.htm
\_ Undergrads: mostly from California; California is heavily Asian.
Grads: from all over the US (and the world); less Asian.
\_ I thought there are 10X more mainland Chinese and Indians
than the whites
\_ more important money make than degree earn.
\_ overall, of course, but not in American universities
(and I think 10x is too high a figure)
\-what would be interesting is to find a particular
dept where the ratios change a lot. might be
intersting to also consider household income of
ug vs. grad ... this might just be telling you there
are more wealthy white people --psb
\_ Most Asians went to join the dot-com swing.
\_ More drive to get a "good job" in Asian cultures than European ones.
More relatives questioning why you need a PhD in History than
getting a real job.
\_ you implying that Asians just want money?
\_ I saw a marked prefererence for careers perceived as
guaranteeing security among my asian and asian-american
colleagues at UC Berkeley, more often than not. There
were many exceptions but that was the trend. I noticed
this, in particular, among nikkei.
\_ Probably the primary reason. Financial security is
very important to the first generations who didn't
have it. Once that is reached, I'll bet the gen.
after that has a much more liberal education.
\_ Poor people often do.
\_ Asians make more money than whites in California.
\_ untrue, irrelevant
You are wrong _/
http://goldsea.com/Mediawatch/Moneymedia/moneymedia2.html
And very relavent to the idea that Asians are poor or not.
\_this article just rambles. it's junk.
\_ Look it up in the census data then. I am not going to
hold your hand for you.
\_ Look it up in the census data then. Do I have to do
*everything* for you?
\_ Yea but what about penis size...
\_ Little, yellow, different, better. |
| 2002/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24732 Activity:high |
5/7 "California: Surprise culprit in energy price rigging
(the state itself!)"
Doesn't get much better than this - VP Cheney must have
have been using mind control.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678327/posts
\_ Um.. sounds like idiots in the ISO trying to cover their collective
ass. I see nothing "politically" motivated here. just dilbertism
at its finest and most disgusting.
\_ http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/07/business/07ENRO.html
And stop deleting this, coward.
\_ Eh, the New York Times is nothing but a shill for the
Federal Government. See the Wen Ho Lee case.
\_ No one is afraid of a NYT article on anything. Save your
self the trouble.
\_ Because the only way the NYT will ever win your support
is if the staff is replaced with a bunch of uneducated
NRA-card-carrying Texans with a one-sided point of view,
right? |
| 2002/5/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24712 Activity:high |
5/4 Every nuclear weapon in the US arsenal was designed and tested by
the UC. Under the Bush Administration, how much more destruction
will the UC manage?
Wednesday, May 8 5-7 pm Upper Sproul Plaza
Speakers: Andrew Page - N. California political director,
California Peace Action Inez Sunwoo - student organizer,
California Peace Action Tara Dorabji - community organizer,
Tri-Valley CAREs (Communities Against a Radioactive Environment)
and other speakers with special guests Drew Dellinger La Paz
Veronica Black
Sponsored by Student Peace Action Network, Stop the War
Coalition, East Bay Peace Action
*free event; wheelchair accessible for more info contact
valeriekao@hotmail.com
\_ Oh no! What do we do? Go back to the stoneage and gather food right?
Dumbasses. Get your head out of your ass, you can't stop progress.
Oh and by the by.. just FYI there has NEVER been an "arms"reduction
treaty that reduces the number of WARHEADS, just the launchers. So I
hope you sleep better knowing those numbers Bush is floating around
of 1k-2k warheads just means operational launchers and warheads.
\_ Stupid peacenik. If not for the "bomb" we'd all be speaking
russian right now (at least those of us who weren't stuck in
a siberian gulag).
\_ "peacenik"... "we'd all be speaking russian right now"...
The irony. -geordan
\_ I can answer your question right now without all the idiotic
propaganda. Under the Bush administration, there will be just as
much nuclear destruction managed by UC as under all previous
administrations combined. That is to say: none. Perhaps you were
too busy with your most recently acquired bowl to notice but there
hasn't been any nuclear missiles launched on this planet. Ever.
The sum total destruction of all nuclear missiles on this planet is
zero. So, when can we hook up, share a bowl, go 420 and feel the
good vibes we'll get from this teach-in? I love a good teach-in.
You know why? Easy chicks. Just go slack jawed and repeat all the
crap they spew (just like ass kissing your profs) and you're in. I
wonder if Valerie Kao is a hottie, or maybe Tara or Veronica could
use a good fucking.
\_ why don't you ask her? her email is right there. You up for
it stud?
\_ so, without attacking the assumption that we NEED to have nuclear
weapons development and testing managed by someone, wouldn't it be
better to have it be a more publicly accountable public institution
like the UC than some shady defense contractor? Whats so wrong
with UC managing the development labs?
\_ also, theres's alot of great basic research at lbl and llnl
that gets done under the guise of weapons research. i think
your average congressman is dumb enough to believe that
the ALS is somehow going to be used as a weapon one day.
in reality, this basic research will lead to technology
that will allow the American economy to be strong and to
maintain our standard of living. if calling it weapons research
is the only way to get the morons in congress to pay for
future American prosperity, so be it.
-physicist, and former lbl employee |
| 2002/4/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24635 Activity:kinda low |
4/29 Gamble: Davis bets the state budget on his re-election
"This time, they say, the budget hole will probably
fall in the $20 billion to $22 billion range...
The final damage is hard to estimate because Davis,
instead of getting serious about scaling back state
spending (which has swelled by 36 percent under his watch)..."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/674923/posts
\_ No one cares what you idiot inbreds think.
\_ No one cares what Simple Simon and his inbred supporters
think. Give it up.
\_ This state needs a real leader. Someone with vision. Someone
who cares. A man like... Gray Davis.
\_ Post the god damned original link not the freeper crap.
http://www.presstelegram.com/archive/opinions/0402/29/edi02.asp |
| 2002/4/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24605 Activity:nil |
4/29 Work for http://EFF.org in SF as 'webmaster'. $(30-35)k. Make a few bucks with your religion. http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sfc/art/3664167.html |
| 2002/4/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Car] UID:24596 Activity:low |
4/26 http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/26/obit.lopes/index.html Is there something about young soul divas in warm weather? \_ I think it's just something about young/stupid people with too much money and free time. \_ No-one else injured. Interesting car accident. \_ Yeah it's a conspiracy to defeminise the Latina female! |
| 2002/4/25 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24587 Activity:very high |
4/24 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/25/MN186211.DTL Gubnor Davis talks about reparations for blacks, chinese and mexicans. Guess who didn't get a single word of mention but was treated *much* worse by this country? \_ I agree, Denis Leary has been oppressed for far too long. \_ This is a GREAT solution to the upcoming deficit he created with expensive power contracts. \_ Other Asians? \_ Think 'reservation' and not the 5 star kind. \_ Oh! The native Americans, right? \_ If you are speaking of american indians, reparations in many many different shapes and forms are in process, or at least more than you might guess. The efforts still need lots of help, though. Check out California Indian Legal Services (http://www.calindian.org and the Native American Rights Fund (http://www.narf.org for two of the primary movers. A site for news is <DEAD>www.indianz.com<DEAD> They need money, lawyers and engineering support. This is closely related to what I do for a living. Ask if you want to know more. I'm currently helping out a newly "recognized" tribe that is being given land in trust in and around Death Valley. -- ulysses \_ What does any of this have to do with the displaced Native Americans all across this and other states? Does any of this even remotely make up for entirely wiping out many tribes and killing millions of others and taking their land? \_ I've lost money at their casinos. Doesn't that count? \_ No. Very little money from casinos goes to help the average Native American. Most of it is concentrated in a few tiny tribes. Most of the tribes in California were put in such incredibly barren and out of the way areas that a business of any sort is economically impossible. \_ Sure, as far as I'm concerned. After all, it is the casinos that are why Davis probably didn't mention the indians. He has been quite public in his efforts to limit the expansion of indian casinos. Nevada's gambling kingpins are getting ready to megafund a ballot initiative to all but strip the casinos completely from the indians. Stay tuned. -- ulysses \_ Yeah, this is good. So the Mob is going to take another shot at the casinos so Davis can bring in more taxes from Mob run casinos after outlawing the Indian ones and this is why he didn't mention the Native Americans? Either they're doing ok with casinos or they're not. If they're going to get stripped of even that much then they have nothing. Either way they should be mentioned and deserve reparations as much as anyone. By saying they have casinos and therefore don't require reparations is like saying it was ok to kill the Jews in Germany because today they have Israel and are doing fine. Doing ok or not today has nothing to do with crimes committed in the past which continue to this very day. |
| 2002/4/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:24565 Activity:moderate |
4/24 How long does it normally take for the government to deposit a check
for taxes due that was sent with a tax return on 4/15?
\_ 7 (CA) / 8 (Fed) days after mailing in my case.
\_ How about refunds?
\_ 6-8 weeks for a check, a little faster for direct deposit. |
| 2002/4/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:24534 Activity:high |
4/22 Gas explosion on Milvia this morning. Check the news. There's choppers
hovering. I count three from my office.
\_ Hardly the first time there was a gas explosion in Berkeley. Are
they news-whore copters or police copters? News-whore copters
aren't interesting but the police might be.
\_ I'm a couple of miles away but I'm guessing the former.
\_ That's no moon.
\_ This isn't a cave!
\_ URL: http://www.sfgate.com/news/baycitynews |
| 2002/4/12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24425 Activity:high |
4/11 Say you move this year, how do you tell IRS that you've moved?
\_ There is a form that you can fill out, which for the life of me I
can't remember the number, but it's on http://www.irs.gov
There is also one you can fill out for California FTB, assuming you
live in California. (http://www.ftb.ca.gov The Change of Address
for DMV is also on their website (<DEAD>dmv.ca.gov<DEAD> Too bad
none of them are online forms; you print, you fill out, you
snail-mail.
\_ You don't. Hide your money on some island and pray they disband
the IRS this year. |
| 2002/4/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24303 Activity:nil |
4/3 I heard that CA has anti-spam law. Has anyone ever been charged
with violating that law?
\_ http://www.timothywalton.com/fergusonvfriendfinders.html |
| 2002/3/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:24274 Activity:high |
3/30 Liberal - a euphemism for vote buying.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/656420/posts
\_ I object to the misuse of the word 'liberal' which traditionally
has meant "open minded". If you mean Left or Democrat or Socialist
or whatever, just say so. Waitress at the Oakland Zachary's with
the shortish blue hair has a great set. Just thought you should
know.
\_ I think he means "liberal" in the political meaning. That
started out as "more willing to spend money" and has lately
come to mean very little. Contrast "conservative" that
started out as "less willing to spend money" but now means
something like "Jingoism". I can't get to Zach's anymore
but the Mountain View Hobbee's has a couple lookers.
\_ Then go ask her out.
\_ Just because shes got doesnt mean need to ask her out.
Anyways I've felt what she's got and not OP. |
| 2002/3/29 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24270 Activity:high |
3/28 We need higher taxes and an open border.
"..the U.S. spent $430 billion last year on total welfare assistance
$5,300 per taxpayer"
"In 2000, 26.7 percent of immigrants in California received welfare
assistance."
And guess who the recipients vote for.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/655502/posts |
| 2002/3/19 [Politics/Domestic/SIG, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24158 Activity:high |
3/19 Can somebody post some decent analysis of McCain's finance reform
bill?Every article I read mentions loopholes, but what are they?
\_ McCain's finance reform is meant to sink the NRA.
\_ Corps will give soft money to non-party groups and unions,
who will runs ads instead of the parties. And the
unconstitutional ad ban will be overturned by the supremes.
OR individuals can still give money to candidates, so if they
lower the limit to $1 (though CFR raises to $5000), the CEO of
BigOil who gave pol a dollar was still trying to by his vote
and created "an appearance of impropriety." CFR is like
trying to ban politics, cuz it's all in the eye of the spinner.
But CFR should pass because it's reform and better than letting
McConnell, et al. win. -republican for gov't financed elections
\_ Government financed elections? Hardly. Who says who
qualifies for the millions of dollars it takes to get the
word out? People with enough support? How do you register
that support? Petitions? That costs money. By not letting
the public participate in elections, it would be even harder
for a non-incumbent to get name recognition. The last thing
we need is government financed elections. What a nightmare.
-republican in favor of smaller government and 1st amendment |
| 2002/3/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:24115 Activity:very high |
3/14 All hail Governor Davis!!!
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/03/14/ED40228.DTL
\_ Yeah, the only problem is, Simon is a right wing nutcase.
Congratulations Republicans, you elected the only guy who
could possibly make Davis look good.
\_ One day you leftiest will figure out your worldview is not the
only possible valid choice. Then again maybe not, then you
wouldn't be lefties.
\_ You will lose, nonetheless. You can believe that aliens
in Black Helicopters control your brain, for all I care.
Just don't expect to be elected governor in a democracy.
\_ in what way is he a right-wing nutcase?
are you saying he is a right-wing nutcase compared to
Ronald Reagan or Dan Lundgren?
\_ A Director of the Heritage Foundation? You gotta be kidding.
I am sure they love him in Orange County, but I bet you
a beer he loses by at least 10 points.
\_ A beer on a 10 point spread? No shit Sherlock, there are
10 points more Dems than Reps in CA. Duh.
\_ actually, i was just asking, not disagreeing, i no
longer live in ca.
\_ Okay, he is anti-abortion, pro-voucher, favors
deregulation, anti-gun control, anti gay rights.
A lot like Lundgren, come to think of it,
who lost by 20 points, if you don't remember.
\_ 1) Exactly why should people be given
preferential govt treatment based on their
behavoir in the bedroom? 2) AIDS is a
complete scam. It is 100% preventable,
but irresponsible homosexuals want tax
payers to bail them out for
incontinent behavoir. This is common
sense.
\_ No, they just want equal rights.
\_ They already have equal rights.
\_ The right to marraige?
\_ Gays have the right to marry someone
of the opposite sex. This is the
exact same right straight people
have. I see no inequality issue.
\_ They do not have the right you
enjoy to marry the person they
love. If you don't understand this
then you are either stupid or
trying to deprive them of rights,
or a troll.
\_ The 2nd amendment is the ONLY guarantor
of the Constitution. How blind can
you be to not see this.
And we all know how effective gun control is.
\_ Gun control is very effective. I control my
guns very well. I've yet to shoot an innocent
or allow a child to gain control of my weapon. |
| 2002/3/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24114 Activity:very high |
3/14 What's the deal with these prize drawings? The rules always say
no purchase necessary but in order to win stuff from say
Snapple, you have to buy a freaking Snapple and see if you got
the winning cap.
\_ not always true. there was a coke contest like this where you could
tell by holding up the bottle and looking. i got free sodas
for a year. you just buy the soda with the winning ticket from
the last soda and all you have to pay is bottle deposit
which you get back.
\_ And taxes, of course...
\_ In the fine print on all these things you can mail the company for
an entry. Go buy a snapple you cheap bastard.
\_ Do people actually have a chance to win? I know there was the case
with McDonald's where they rigged it so friends of the producers
of their monopoly game won. I alawys wonder if you can win the
\_ BTW, why does tne law require "no purchase necessary" for all
cars in display at malls.
\_ Probably not. They never tell you when they are going to
give those cars away, do they? Haven't really tracked the
ugly scam on this one besides the normal address and phone
number crap.
\_ BTW, why does the law require "no purchase necessary" for all
drawings? What's wrong with a company running a drawing that
requires purchases so as to boost its sales?
\_ because it technically becomes gambling when you require
a purchase
\_ Correct. It becomes a lottery. The "no purchase
necessary" means it's a "giveaway." |
| 2002/3/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24102 Activity:moderate |
3/13 http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/13/international/13CND-ZIMB.html oh, the irony: In Washington, a statement by Secretary Powell said "Mugabe can claim victory but not democratic legitimacy." \_ What's the irony in that? \_ The touchy feely gore lover who posted this believes that bush and co did not win the election in a democratic way because they didn't let "every vote be counted" and had a bunch of cronies in the sc rule in thier favor. \_ Oh. Is this that nonsense about stealing the election even though no matter how they counted and recounted it afterwards the best they could do was a three (3) vote win for Gore under some extremely unlikely and bizarre circumstances? You mean that election where every vote got counted so many times the chad was falling out of ballots all over the floor and tables? Thanks. Now I know. |
| 2002/3/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24059 Activity:moderate |
3/7 I was looking through the republican primary votes for governor
by company. I noticed 0 votes for any republican in Santa Cruz
\_ county?
County. Is this possible?
\_ Do you know you are not allowed to vote republican in SC?
\_ Don't you know you are not allowed to vote republican in SC?
\_ The paper also said our new mayor was elected councilman and ignored
our council race so take it all with a grain of salt. It's only the
media. |
| 2002/3/5-6 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24030 Activity:very high |
3/5 http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. \_ What the fuck? Is this supposed to make me vote Republican? Give me a fucking break. \_ No, moron. It's a classic work of literature. This is one of those great free-beer things the net has to offer which I'm sharing with your stupid ignorant empty headed addled low-browed self. There's nothing in there about Republicans. So stupid, so blind, so young.... \_ go fuck yourself. \_ *laugh* well you sure showed me wrong about you! \_ go fuck yourself. \_ ouch, now _that_ hurts my feelings. gosh, can't we just all get along? \_ I read that in a high school reader. It was before I had read Slaughterhouse 5, and before I had any idea that Kurt Vonnegut was a name to remember. Thanks. \_ is Slaughterhouse 5 a good read? \_ yes. \_ This reads like a cheap Ayn Rand imitation, and that's not a very high standard. I hope this was a draft and Vonnegut had planned to turn it into a real novel some day. \_ My silly friend, you are not in a position to critique Vonnegut, or state what a 'real' novel is. Rather than trying to put down Vonnegut's work, which will not get the attention of most people, why not accept the fact that intelligent people like Vonnegut have politics that disagree with your own? \_ QUIT making strawmen. I have no beef with his politics. I just hate when people try to pass off hyperbole as theme. This is like 4th grade writing. Why not just write an essay complaining about affirmative action or talk about life in socialist countries? More effective and less tongue in cheek. \_ What I am trying to say is that this ISN'T 4th grade writing. You didn't write like this in 4th grade, and neither did I. Good writing is difficult, and this was good writing, even if the subject matter rubs you the wrong way. \_ This story was terrible. It reads as if it was written by a student in 9th grade english class. The basic idea is fine, but the treatment very poor. \_ He knows how to read that makes him just as valid a critic as anyone else. \_ It's just a short story. I don't know if there's a novel in there. It makes its point fairly well, and succinctly. \_ When it's convenient for me to feel fatalistic, I like to read _Sirens of Titan_. |
| 2002/3/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:24029 Activity:very high 66%like:23990 |
3/5 VOTE!
\_ Does it really make a difference if a few people here and
there don't vote?
\_ have you been asleep since 2000?
\_ It's called sarcasm.
\_ Every felon and illegal alien must vote or their rights will be
trampled upon! They might be put in prison or kicked out of the
country! They should vote and vote and vote some more! Like
a few places where Gore got %106 of the registered voters! Now
*that* is true democracy in action!
\_ Don't you know, when you vote democrat its democracy in
action!
\_ You lame-asses think you're funny but you're not.
Something like 30% of black people in Florida can't
vote because of left-over policies from post-Civil War
preventing convicted criminals from voting. You think
that would've swayed the election?
\_ Bullshit. There are states all over this nation that
don't allow felons to vote. If you can't get it right
don't come here and fucking LIE. It has nothing to do
with being black or the civil war, you twit. It has to
do with voting being a right of full citizenship and
a convicted felon is someone who has chosen to give up
some of those rights which also include things like
freedom of movement. Take the hint, race baiter.
\_ Your ignorance is sadenning and your bitterness
indicative of the fact that you'd rather not talk
about real issues. Who is baiting whom?
You are right that Florida is not the only state
to ban felons from voting-- there something like
12 (mainly southern... read racist) states that
still uphold this practice. Florida was mentioned
because this was one instance were the 30% of
inelligible blacks would most definately have made a
difference. It is common knowledge that Republicans
want less people to vote because it helps them
win... and this is just another way to acheive that.
... and to say that it is not a race issue, all you
have to do is look at who is convicted of more
felonies in this country.
\_ Why should convicted felons be allowed to vote?
Do you really think that society would be better
if we let convicted criminals influence the
electoral process?
And of all those black people who were convicted
of a felony, do you really believe that the vast
majority of them were false convictions?
\_ We let them out of jail didn't we? Noone is
talking about letting inmates vote. But isn't
the point of a prison sentence to serve time
and return to society? Being a member of
society means being represented... which
means you should have the right to vote.
\_ Like having the right to vote against
laws that will put you behind bars for
doing the same shit that landed you in
prison the first time? Hmm.
\_ cute.
\_ in regards to the 2nd point, no, clearly
the vast majority are not "false
convictions." However, (1) post Civil War
when these felon disenfranchisment laws
were made, in many southern states,
felonies were extended to many many things
including such things as "loitering",
allowing the laws to be unevenly enforced
by racist law enforcement. Many of these
laws (like the disenfranchisement) are
still on the books. (2) You need to
consider the bigger picture. I'm not
saying, "blacks are always falsely
convicted of felonies." I'm saying "Why
are blacks convicted of so many felonies?"
\_ Blacks are convicted of so many felonies
because blacks commit many felonies?
Is it politically incorrect to state
the obvious?
\_ Divide society into several groups.
Now say that in each group, the
number of people who commit crimes
is epsilon. It seems that epsilon
is about the same for all groups
except blacks. And he wants to know
why. It is a legitimate question.
\_ Granted there are many such laws on
the books, but do you really think that
someone is going to get convicted of
a felony loitering if all he was doing
was loitering? I see nothing wrong with
convicting a person for felony loitering
if he was also guilty of some other
serious crime for which there was
insufficient evidence. Its like putting
capone away for tax evasion.
As far as the "why blacks are convicted"
bit, maybe they are convicted because
they commit more crimes? I don't buy
the bs that society programmed them to
do this sort of thing. Do unto others
isn't all that hard to understand.
\_ In response to above two posts...
fine then... you are just creating
another level of indirection. The
question then simply becomes "Why
do blacks commit so many more
felonies?"
This thread has become long and
unwieldy... perhaps we should take
it off the motd. - rory
\_ It's alright to say it.
\_ huh?
\_ The obvious answer to "why
blacks commit more crimes."
\_ oh right... yeah, this
is generally the point
in the discussion where
people go, "shit, I
should go join the KKK
or shut-up."
(notice the replies
dried up)
\_ i'm sure statistically it didn't matter that much
but Florida was one of two states that hired
a private company to go through voter rolls, find felons
and mail them that they couldn't vote. yes this was legal,
but in several cases, they were wrong, picked people
who had the legal right to vote, and they showed
up at the polling place and told they couldn't vote.
imagine if you were told you could not longer vote, you
didn't vote, then you find out later it was all a mistake?
i'd be incredibly pissed. salon did several articles on
this. - danh [motd format daemon]
\_ Or imagine you're in the military and your perfectly
ballot delivered in a perfectly legal and timely manner
was thrown away by an elections official? You voted,
you voted legally, you were legally entitled to vote,
your ballot arrived on time, and then your ballot was
tossed out. Salon did not do several articles on this.
\_ Maybe because it didn't happen.
\_ It happened in several south florida
counties but was under reported. |
| 2002/2/24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23962 Activity:high |
2/23 How Can We Fix Our Public Schools? By Making Them Private
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/publications/digest/012/friedman.html
\_ 'we had to destroy the village in order to save it'
\_ By going back to the 3 R's and removing politics from the school
system.
\_ Critical flaw in this argument: He's claiming that private schools
are somehow magically better than public schools. I attended both
public & private in 3 states in my K-12 years. My private school
education was simply "not as bad" as my public school education.
My parents and their parents received a *vastly* superior education
in public schools in their day. Have you seen the credential test
for CA teachers? It's supposed to be a 10th grade level test and
something like 30% fail it the first time. (sorry, no URL on that).
Teaching has become the place for the bottom end of the previous
generation of ill educated dim wits to go since they can't do
anything else. Break the teacher's unions, dump all the losers,
raise standards so maybe someone teaching 11th and 12th grade needs
to pass a college level exam, not a 10th grade exam, and then pay
them a real salary but make them accountable so shitty teachers get
dumped instead of settling down into the system, ruining a few
dozen students every year until they pension out.
\_ Not if the teachers unions have anything to say about it! |
| 2002/2/10 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23829 Activity:very high |
2/09 Grey Davis bad [summarized for you by your helpful motd edtior]
\_ why don't you put this on your homepage and link to it on the
motd? it's probably just going to get deleted otherwise.
\_ wtf is this? no offence but whos gonna take the time to read
this?
\_ LA Times- hard copy, and I am sure if republicans were in
charge they would have screwed up as well, my main thing is I
don't really think one is better or worse than the other, they
are all evil
\_ vote for Bill Simon!
\_ The political philosophy of conservatives IS better. Unfortunately
no true conservatives can get elected today. Only pseudo
socialists who want pervasive government presense in
every aspect of your life.
\_ Voting is an exercise of picking the person whom you hate the least.
It's getting ever so hard to pick one because I hate them all. |
| 2002/1/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23708 Activity:high |
1/29 Conservatives are at it again! Now they are trying to stop
the nuggets ad for "promoting bestiality"!
http://www.upc-online.org/020117nr_carls_nugget_ad.html
\_ "as UPC, other animal advocacy groups, and many California and
non-California residents have requested." Yeah all those vicious
conspiracy prone animal advocacy right winger nut jobs who think
the commercial is about gang raping chickens. Next time I'll have
to show solidarity with our poultry friends by voting democrat so
they'll know I stand by them. Poultry rape is no laughing matter!
And oh my god... here's their website: http://www.upc-online.org
Someone please tell me this is a joke.
\_ wouldn't this group be considered liberal?
\_ http://www.osi.org |
| 2002/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23551 Activity:nil |
1/12 northern california is weird. why do you people rathre speak to
each other online in chat rooms or email, instead ot phoning each
other up? Or better yet, seeing each other?
\_ how is it a northern california thing? are you sure it's not just
a geek thing? |
| 2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23418 Activity:nil |
12/30 "Both Reno and O'Donnell, a foster parent, said they
shared a commitment to helping children."
Like the ones burned to death in Waco and Elian?
http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/599106/posts
\_ As bad as I think Reno was for the country at least she isn't the
total nutjob that O'Donnell is. As long as Rosie keeps to her
self-ego boosting magazine and bad TV we're safe. |
| 2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23410 Activity:very high |
12/30 The idiocy of the SDI thread is here the assumption that our
enemies will be using missiles. Class dismissed.
\_ Right, and thats why the Russians had 10,000 nuclear
missiles? I nominate you for Secretary of Defence.
\_ That, and a startling 50% success rate at shooting down missiles
when we know where they're coming from, where they're headed, and
when they've been launched.... --erikred
\_ It's okay to "experiment" with the Great Society and entitlement
programs until the end of time, but a horrendously technically
complex proposition like NMD has to work its first time out of
the box, skipping right over the "development" and "testing"
phases?
\_ As for the first, nice troll, and as for the second, it
makes sense to expect a workable demonstration of the
prototype before one invests the billions intended. A 50%
success rate does not make the grade. --erikred
\_ Can't we just give the tax money directly to the
Republican party donors and skip the pretense?
\_ I believe that's the stage we're in now, isn't it? Do you
see any large scale deployment or production?
\_ Right, and thats why the Russians had 30,000 nuclear
warheads? I nominate you for Secretary of Defence.
\_ Yes the enemy could use other things to kill people as well so we
shouldn't defend against this one thing at all. Makes sense. You
win the Big Doofus Blue Ribbon. Sober drivers kill people with
bad driving every single day! Stop the anti-drunk-driving campaign
now! We're wasting our time on drunk drivers when sober drivers
are killing our children! Do it for the children! You're an
idiot unworthy of the Troll Cookie Award.
\_ too dumb to get the point. Our enemies will deliver a bomb
along with all the bales of smuggled pot. Or a boat or a plane.
Not a missle, for which SDI has limited applications (non cruise)
\_ So you're in touch with the inner workings of the North Korean
government? Have you let our government in on your deep
access to this incredibly valuable and secret information?
You also know the same about the Iraqi, Iranian, and Chinese
governments? They're all smuggling bombs in to the US via
pot bales? There's a job waiting for you in the CIA. |
| 2001/12/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23382 Activity:moderate |
12/26 Can somebody tell me if there are regions in CA that get all four
seasons? Meaning snow in winter, hot in summer, etc. The Lake Tahoe
area is like that. I'm looking for more. How about north in Eureka?
Or further south? Thanks.
\_ fuck you. go read an almanac.
\_ Mt. Shasta
\_ More generally, any mountainous region. In SoCal, places
like Big Bear, Arrowhead, and Julian. You will not get snow
in California except at high elevations. --dim |
| 2001/12/27 [Finance/Banking, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23375 Activity:nil |
12/26 Which bank (other than Washington Mutual) is offer basic checking
account with no or low balance requirement in CA? ($500 is all
I have left.) |
| 2001/12/23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23356 Activity:high |
12/22 "one out of two babies born in california is brown."-ucla
\_ How racist.
\_ The truth is not racist. It is just the truth. |
| 2001/12/8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign] UID:23183 Activity:nil |
12/7 Why isn't America on Palestine's side? If Mexico annexed California,
and forced us all to live in, say, Sacramento, we'd be pissed as hell.
And why do Jews need to have their own country? Do Christians need
their own country? Do white people need their own country?
\_ BTW, white people already have many of their own countries in
Europe. |
| 2001/11/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:23108 Activity:nil |
11/26 "Human Embryo Reportedly Cloned for Cells"
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/Science/Cloning |
| 2001/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Religion] UID:23080 Activity:high |
11/22 To whoever was asking about what happened to the israeli
teenagers who were in the US illegally and they got picked
up by the FBI after they were seen taking photos of themselves
with the wtc burning in the background, they're still
in jail without bail or access to outside communication,
\_ Thanks for the boost to my cynicism. Let's vote these bastards
out and vote new ones in.
\_ I'm all for new bastards.
\_ URL please? I thought this was a rumor created by left-wing
Muslim fundamentalist Arabic anti-semites.
\_ No, it is a rumor created by right-wing Christian fundamentalist
American anti-semites. Keep your religious fanatics straight!
\_ I read that they were released after a week or so. No URL, sorry. |
| 2001/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23059 Activity:high |
11/15 It's official. SAT scores != U.C. http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/11/15/california.admissions.ap/index.html \_ Does that mean a 4.0 at Oakland High will have a better chance than a 3.5 at Lowell, all others being equal? (I didn't attend either school.) \_ What's wrong with that? \_ Because any crackhead who shows up most days and doesn't kill too many people can get a 4.0 at OHS? \_ Ah, American Education: The great equalizer. Let's make _everyone_ dumb! |
| 2001/11/15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23042 Activity:very high |
11/14 Is there a word that describes a body/corporation/government which
claims to abide by the laws but sets the laws and its interpretations
arbitrarily?
\_ Lawful evil.
\_ We call it a 'church'.
\_ Yes, in the Temple of the Supreme Court
\_ Yeah, down with the system, man!
\_ move along, there's nothing to see here, your man lost by
every counting method on the table, get over it.
\_ not to beat a dead horse, ok fine, read this:
http://slate.msn.com//?id=2058603 - danh
\_ Big yawn. The whole Florida election was chock full of
votes that probably should have been counted but weren't
and votes that were counted but shouldn't have. You
can't pick and choose which piles of valid/invalid votes
you'd like to include and ignore all others and then say
"my guy won!".
\_ yes, and i'm still bitter the most powerful man in the
world got elected by statistical margin of error,
and i don't think anything can happen that will change
this, no matter how many "SORE LOSERMAN" t shirts
you throw at me.
\_ But that is what Bush did! Face it man, that election
was well within the standard of error. Bush was
elected by mistake. Literally.
\_ and if Gore got elected it would have been outside
the margin of error? be realistic. it was a close
race, and whoever came out ahead would have had a
statistically insignificant lead. If Gore had won,
that would have been a mistake too. Who cares.
it's over.
\_ Gore is liar and an ego-maniac. Contrary to the media's
best caricature, he is not intellectual - he's
a pro big-government, pro-tax bureaucrat. Just look
at his policy initiatives as VP - they were disasters.
BTW, try to formulate an opinion apart from
parroting the mass media. Why are people in general
so inclined to align themselves with graduates of
journalism school - as if that is a credential to do
anything whatsoever.
\_ politburo
\_ that's paolitburo
\_ paoloburrito |
| 2001/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:23034 Activity:nil |
11/13 Don't forget to vote,
http://bearfacts.berkeley.edu
\_ how should I vote? - graduating in may |
| 2001/11/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Airplane] UID:23008 Activity:very high |
11/12 Okay, I didn't make this up. I've been seeing low level flying jets
(looks like those fighter jets) since this morning. What's going on?
\_ See the thread on NYC plane crash below.
\_ Amazing how you can spot possible military craft but entirely miss
270+ people dying in a crash. All over the news.
\_ I don't see how jets can prevent airplanes that are taking off
from crashing into dense city.
\_ They can't but they can prevent an airplane from flying from
NYC to DC and blowing up something. There's no one big cure-all
fix to life.
\_ There was a medium-sized bomber-type airplane flying around
Berkeley yesterday afternoon. It was flanked by two helicopter
gunships, and the bomber was dragging two refueler-type cables,
one from each wing, with a cone-shaped object at the end
\_ Article in sfgate:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/11/12/MN101955.DTL |
| 2001/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23001 Activity:very high |
11/10 BBC reports bin laden admits 9/11 bombings. threatens to use
nuclear device or chemical weapons on silicon valley 11/13
\_ in the 1950's poeple observed that one good aspect of
sprawl is it's resistance to nuclear attack. If you
look at kill radii of different nuclear weapons and look
at a map of silicon vally, you will see that they could
only make the smallest of dents, at least in the short term.
\_ why the hell would they blow up silicon valley. We don't even
supply weapons. LA (Boeing, Lockheed, Loral, Rockwell, etc)
should be one that deserves to be blown up, not us.
\_ Lots of military contractors in the Valley, plus it's
the center of recent American capitalism
\_ and how were the WTC towers military targets?
\_ sorry, he said california, not specifically sv
\_ URL?
\_ Can't find it on bbc or cnn. Silicon Valley has an
overinflated sense of importance.
\_ That may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that BL sp
threatened to nuke/gas SV "if the US does it first".
I've found a couple articles on ABC that mention it, and
a detailed article on CNN. It's not that hard to find.
\_ where does bin laden ever claim responsibility for the
9/11 attacks?
\_ STFW
\_ I did STFW, and the latest piece of news I saw on the
subject was a recent interview where he, yet again,
denies any involvement.
\_ Indeed. He denies involvement and we have
produced no evidence of it. Trust the
government, they know what is best for you.
\_ Nah, I d rather trust some muslim nutcase.
\_ url??? |
| 2001/10/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:22872 Activity:insanely high |
10/30 I have a lot of pennies, and although they are non-ass,
I would like to exchange them for a more socially acceptable
form of money. Are there any specific locations with those
mythical money changing machines that will accept a huge
collection of coins and (while taking a percentage) return
useful change? In Berkeley? In the Bay Area? Thanks.
\_ I have heard that the wieght of the zinc in a penny is
worth more than one penny. i'm not sure if this is true.
check the price of zinc, and weigh a penny, and melt
them down to be sold as scrap. this is illegal, though.
\_ a get rich quick scheme
debasing legal tender
zinc worth more than cash
\_ But isn't there something else other than zinc that gives it the
bronze color? How do you get rid of that?
\_ http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index.cfm?action=coin_specifications
Copper, of course.
\_ The penny continues to be legal tender solely becauswe of the
mining lobby.
\_ How else do you pay for a 99-cent item without tax?
\_ The Safeway on Solano near Santa Fe has a machine; commission is
something like 15-20%. --pld
\_ If it's a Coinstar machine, it only takes 8.9 cents
per dollar. And it's fun to use!
\_ link:www.coinstar.com for locations.
\_ AC Transit machines count pennies.
\_ I'd just keep on using them whenever I go shopping.
\_ The Cala Foods at Hyde and California has one. -ausman
\_ The parking meters in San Mateo accept them. heh.
\_ but do they accept dimes? that's where the fun starts
\_ Why not take them to the bank? They'll make you roll them first,
but they'll take them. I just exchanged $2.00 in pennies that
way. --dim
\_ Do they actually check what you put in the roll between the
first and the last pennies?
\_ My bank did. It's a bank. They do money. They only do
money. They've been doing nothing but money for 100+ years
since before you were born. What are the odds you're going
to pull a fast one and get away with it? |
| 2001/10/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22849 Activity:high |
10/26 "How do I make people nervous?" I asked.
"By doing whatever you're doing."
"What am I doing?"
"I don't know, but whatever it is, you're going to stop doing it!"
One reporters brush with The War on Terrorism:
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2001-10-25/cover.asp
\_ Sitting around in a yoga position with your eyes closed with
cops all around you makes people nervous.
\_ They had already detained him, forced him to erase his
pictures and confiscated his pen(!) before that happened.
Nice try, though. |
| 2001/10/26 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:22847 Activity:nil |
10/16 "I don't know what it is you are doing, but you are going to
stop doing it!"
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2001-10-25/cover.asp |
| 2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22502 Activity:nil |
9/18 http://wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46771,00.html |
| 2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:22479 Activity:high |
9/15 Where do I start for shopping for a good certificate of deposit
offer?
\_ http://www.patelco.org
\_ http://www.bankrate.com
\_ I just got one from CalState9 CU right down on Shattuck and the
rate was better than any other I could reasonably get elsewhere.
...scratch that. http://bankrate.com found a better one (4.27AP)
from an online bank. Oh well. CalState9 is still better than all
but the top three available in California (4.11 APR). |
| 2001/8/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:22213 Activity:high |
8/22 There's a law in New York that prohibits selling tickets at over 20%
of their face value. I live in CA and want to sell my extra tickets to
a NY event over the internet. Is it illegal for me to sell them for
more than %20 or does the law not apply to me because i'm not selling
the tickets in NY?
\_ Sounds like a Federal case to me. Don't worry about it though,
unless you are making tons of money off of it, no one will care.
Legal advice is worth what you pay for it!
\_ It's a local issue. The Seattle Mariners allows ticket holders
to scalp on their web site as long as they don't live within
the Seattle area (where it is illegal to charge over face
value for them). You're fine.
\_ it's illegal to charge 120% AT THE EVENT. In most places.
But youd better do your research for each state you plan
selling them in.
\_ Tricky. It can be claimed that you will sell it to only someone who
go to NY. Thus NY can claim personal jurisdiction. The problem is
that the event is in NY!! IANAL. - sagarwal |
| 12/25 |