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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2005/6/2-3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37934 Activity:low
6/1     a guy on MOTD signed as "vet" said that military draft is
        inevitable.  would you, based upon your military experience,
        explain that?
        \_ death is inevitable
        \_ Do you want to live Forever??  -Valeria
        \_ That...is the sound...of inevitability.    -A. Smith
           \_ aaron is that you?
2005/6/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:37930 Activity:high
6/1     God does not like Republicans.
        \_ I know you're just joking, but that's in LA, dem city.
           \_ The CITY of LA is 70% democrat but LA county is overall 55%
              democrat. In fact, it is a myth that Southern Cal is democrat.
              Most of Orange County, Malibu, Palos Verdes, and other extremely
              affluent parts of LA are Republican strongholds. These people
              are SOCIALLY liberal but are even more driven by money-- they're
              fiscally conservative, hence the party affiliation. Perhaps you
              should take a look at a Southern Cal map and get an idea how
              big it really is relative to cute little Bay Area. Lastly Laguna
              Beach is NOT LA. It's over 50 miles from it.
              \_ that's probably why he didn't say, "that's SoCal, dem region",
                 or, "that's LA County, dem county".  duh.
        \_ If God hates Republicans then 2500 Democrats (out of over 3000
           souls) would not have perished on 9/11. If anything, all indications
           show that God loves Republicans.
2005/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:37922 Activity:nil 60%like:37046
6/1     Ding Dong the Broadcast Flag is dead:
2005/5/20 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37782 Activity:high
5/20    Turns out Newsweek was right, just as I predicted:
        \_ No, they didn't.  The article you link to does not confirm flushing
           the Koran.
           \_ The "flushing of the Koran" has been floating around the press
              for literally years.  The Newsweek story said that it was in the
              upcoming Southern Command report.  This doesn't confirm or
              contradict the Newsweek story.  It's just another data point.
        \_ Ummm, no.  This is exactly what the military already admitted
           to, except that it further specifies that they solved the
           \_ Yup.  No more Koran flushing.  We've taken to chaining taxi
              drivers up by the wrists.
              \_ Quick, change the subject!  Not to meantion, this is from
                 3 years ago, so it hardly counts as "we've taken to"
                 (present tense).  However, yes, I agree that's horrible,
                 and those involved should be punished.  It also nothing
                 to do with the topic.
                 \_ What exactly is the topic in your mind?  That newsweek
                    is the root cause of our bad image?  As long as we are
                    holding people in secret, these actions will continue.
                    Do I have proof of that?  No.  But the assurance would
                    be to let third party observers in, not to blindly trust
                    Pentagon reports.
                    \_ The topic in my mind was ascertaining the truth
                       for the statement "Turns out Newsweek was right,
                       of the statement "Turns out Newsweek was right,
                       just as I predicted."
                       \_ So we've solved the koran flushing problem.  Okay,
                          how about the slightly broader torturing innocent
                          people problem?
                          \_ Start a new thread, dumbass.
            \_ Nice job censoring my reply.
               \_ It wasn't censoring.  Ilya overwrote like three big chunks.
                  Stop feeling special.
        \_ "We have received no credible and specific allegations" of
           Koran desecration or Koran mistreatment conducted by
           US personnel at Gitmo. -White House
            Koran desecration or Koran mistreatment conducted by US personnel
            at Gitmo." -White House
           \_ Translation: "No one took pictures this time. Praise Jeebus"
           The International Committee of the Red Cross documented what it
           called credible information about U.S. personnel disrespecting
           or mishandling Korans at the Guantanamo detention facility and
           pointed it out to the Pentagon in confidential reports during
           2002 and early 2003, an ICRC spokesman said Wednesday. -Tribune
           Damn that liberal media, printing the truth again!
2005/5/19-20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic] UID:37771 Activity:nil
5/19    Santorum self-Godwins: What the Democrats are doing is "the equivalent
        of Adolf Hitler in 1942 saying, 'I'm in Paris. How dare you invade me.
        How dare you bomb my city? It's mine.' This is no more the rule of the
        senate than it was the rule of the senate before not to filibuster."
        \_ Yes, the Democrats invaded Paris in 1806 and are pretty pissed about
           being asked to stop it with the genocide.
        \_ You don't seem to understand "Godwin's Law".  You can't "godwin".
           \_ You don't seem to understand that your prescriptivist tendencies
              won't fly here, son.
              \_ So what happens when you're talking about actual eugenics
                 programs or neo-nazis?
           being asked to please stop it with the genocide.
2005/5/19 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37758 Activity:nil
5/19    \_ The filibuster and size aren't the
           only differences between the house
           and senate.  And if you distrust
           the house, should we eliminate it?
           \_ No, you sad little twat.  I don't distrust the house.  But,
              as you say, size isn't the only difference.
              They were structured differently for numerous reasons.
              One being that the Senate would have tighter rules for
              debate and passage.  It was seen as a cooling dish
              for the majority rule of the house.  The immense body of
              procedural rules, of which the filibuster is one, is a check
              on a runaway legislature.  The R's want to get their whole
              shebang through.  Sorry, that's not how our government is
              supposed to work.  I almost hope they do force this issue.
              It'll be the groundwork for a D coup in 2006.
              \_ You also forgot to mention that the Senate is not apportioned
                 based on population, so the 51 Senators about to make this
                 rule change represent less than 50% of the population.
              \_ You know, the house used to have a "silent" filibuster.  It
                 was eliminated in 1889.  Search for Thomas Reed.
                 \_ Yes, and it was a blow to the power of the minority.  Thank
                    God that for the last 100 years, we've had a respect for
                    the minority still in the Senate.
2005/5/14-16 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37682 Activity:kinda low
5/14    As of 4:40PM, the followings are respective headline news:
        "Offensive Over: U.S. says insurgent strongholds ... 'neutralized'"
          -- MSNBC
        "U.S. Marines complete offensive on insurgent staging area" -- CNN
        "U.S. Wraps Up Border Sweep: 9 Marines And More Than 125 Militants
          Killed, U.S. Says" -- CBS News
        "U.S.: Matador a Success: Insurgent sanctuary 'neutralized'" -- Fox
        "U.S. Calls Iraq Border Operation a Success" -- ABC News
        "Syrian military build up on Iraqi border, as US calls western
         offensive 'successful'"
        Same news, very different political overtones from CBS, ABC,
        and Fox Conservative. Fuck American media.
        \_ They all sound the same to me.  Fuck stupid motd people. In the ear.
           \_ He apparently doesn't know what ':' means.
        \_ At least all the different overtones can co-exist, unlike in
           countries with govt-controlled media where there is only one tone.
        \_ What's wrong with those headlines... Should they all be the same?
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37635 Activity:nil
5/11    MOTD poll:  U.S. military draft in:
        2006: .
        No draft: ..
                   \_ The military doesn't need/want a bunch of
                      warm bodies these days.
        Democrates claim draft 2009+ in next presidential election:
        \_ The US will pull out of Iraq if theonly other choice was to have
           a draft.
        Democrates claim draft 2009+ in next presidential election:
        \_ Which Democrates [sic] are saying that?
           \_ Presumably the Democrats who will be running in the next
              presidential election.
        \_ 'Special Skills' draft in 2006: .
           \_ I'm the one who brought that up on motd originally, and I don't
              believe it, at least for it's use during peacetime.  It's for
              when "shit hits the fan":  then you can draft 18-26 year-old
              grunts, as well as 26-40 year-old sysadmins/coders along with
              the M.D.s you can draft under the old plan.
2005/5/6-7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:37553 Activity:high
5/6     Political bias at google continues.  Gave $463,500 to Dems, $5,000 to
        Pubs.  Not good now that we know they're going to act as a news filter.
        \_ short GOOG
        \_ Fuck you and die.
           \_ I am confused by this grammar.  Did you intend to prepend
              this with "I will?"
              \_ "Fuck you" is a sentence by itself, and "die" is a request;
                 I'm just joining them together.  Maybe "Fuck you; die" would
                 work better.
                 \_ May you be fucked and die.
        \_ As opposed to Fox.  Given that you have such a choice of news
           sources out there, any number of which probably share your
           political views, where on Mars do you live that you think anyone
           somehow owes you news in any format/with any slant whatsoever?
           You don't _have_ to read what you don't like to hear.  -John
           \_ Fox News is a news/opinion station.  I expect bias there as well
              as CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.  Google is supposed to be a bunch of
              algorithms.  Now they're working on grading news stories (which I
              hope would point out errors so I can get facts and make my own
              opinions), and I'm concerned their metafilter algorithms will
              have a political bias.
              \_ Google is positioning itself to be an internet media company,
                 much like Yahoo.  Very very few companies will ever exist
                 as 'a bunch of algorithms' and continue to be not only
                 profitable but capable of real growth.  While I appreciate
                 profitable but capable of real growth.  While I appeciate
                 your worldview, it strikes me as more than a bit naive and
                 ingenuous.  Google isn't supposed to be anything but a
                 profit oriented venture targeted toward an audience that will
                 will bring in profits.  Welcome to the new reality where the
                 line separating news source and news provider is increasingly
                 blurry (not to mention the distinctions between internet,
                 media, and news).
                 profit oriented venture targetted toward an audience that will
                 will bring in profits.  Welcome to the new reality where
                 news source and news provider are an increasingly blurry line.
           \_ I doubt if "just as biased as Fox" would be considered a
              worthy goal to strive for.
              \_ Well done, A+.  Now find me an unbiased news source.  -John
                 \_ Show me one person without sin.  Does that mean one should
                    not strive to lead a virtuous life?
                    not strive to be good?
                 \_ Actually, I think that the Newshour is not bad since
                    they mostly let the people talk about the issues and
                    let you draw your own conclusions.
        \_ Stop using it then. Stop using the Internet, too, since it
           was developed at Berkeley and Stanford, both well known liberal
        \_ Who cares? No one is forcing you to get your news from google.
           You can still go and get your news from some other site. If
           this bothers you so much why don't you set up your own news
           agregation site that is "fair and balanced"?
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37392 Activity:nil 72%like:37387
4/27    Meet your ideal Southern Belle today!
        [link that might lead to further Republican breeding removed]
        And for Queer Republicans: http://dallas.logcabin.org
2005/4/26-27 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37372 Activity:kinda low
4/26    If you had to filibuster, what would you talk about for around two
        \_ I think I would read the motd archives.
        \_ if you pause for ten seconds, do you have to give up the floor?
           \- the hall is basically empty.
        \_ we haven't had a real filibuster since 1968.  it's the
           threat of the filibuster that keeps the majority of the senate
           from going wild - danh
        \_ I'd pick up The Art of Computer Programming and read aloud.
           \- you could read from lynn cheney's lesbo p0rn novel. --psb
        \_ Probably read Dr. Seuss books, followed by Shel Silverstein poems,
           followed by Shakespeare.
        \_ I'd perform a reading of The Iliad in the original Greek. Even
           though I can't speak Greek, I'd just try to wing it.
        \_ In past filibusters they read from the phone book.  Not sure if it
           was the white pages or the yellow pages.  Personally, I'd take the
           opportunity to read Ulysses. -dans
           \_ Finnegan's Wake would be much more entertaining.  -tom
             \- I think it would be kind of funny to see EED KENNEDY
                 reading the Monologue by M. BLOOM. However, I still think
                 the CHENEY lesbo work would be best. Maybe the God hates
                 Shrimp or Song of Songs or weird parts of Leviticus too.
                 What would be the point of reading from Shakespeare?
                 "Lynne Cheney's version of a happy ending: the protagonist
                 is rescued from lesbianism and anticapitalism when incest
                 steps in to save the day." --psb
2005/4/13-15 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:37182 Activity:high
4/13    Yay!  The same Republicans that are saying "we don't have enough money
        to pay for Social Security" just voted to abolish the estate tax,
        which will cost one trillion dollars (including interest on debt)
        over the next ten years.
        \_ Explain the estate tax please...
           \_ Currently estates over $1 million are taxed - I can't remember
              the rate.  This is a very old tax - it was first instituted by
              that flaming liberal Howard Taft.  The Democrats have proposed
              raising the minimum value to something like $2.4 million, which
              would exempt virtually all family farms and small family
              businesses.  The House still voted to kill the whole thing.
        \_ William Buffett:  Removing the tax would lead to the creation of
                \_ Of course, there are *ALREADY* exemptions for family farms
                   and small businesses.  The Republicans don't go out of
                   their way to state that.  In fact, I don't think a SINGLE
                   family farm has had to be sold due to the estate tax.  It's
                   just one more way to shift the tax burden from the haves
                   to the have-nots, and the future generation of have-nots.
                   \_ Well, you think wrong.  Plenty of farms have been sold
                      for this reason.  What do you define as a small family
                      farm, anyway?
        \_ Warren Buffett:  Removing the tax would lead to the creation of
           an "aristocracy of wealth" instead of a meritocracy.
           \_ What's wrong with that? The rich are more well educated and
              have a much better idea than you prolitariats on how to create
              a stable and sustainable economy. I support our corporations and
              the wealthy financiers behind it.
              \_ Mod +5 Funny!
        \_ William Buffett? Is that the "Margaritaville" guy?
           \_ oops, too many hits off the crack pipe
              \_ No, he's the white Jay-Z.  /obscure
        \_ STARVE THE BEAST!1!  The more interest payments the b3tt3r!
        \_ why do you think 10 out 12 richest Congress critters are democrats,
           as are many of the wealthy elite?  You honestly think they pursue
           a political agenda contrary to their personal financial interests?
           \_ Since both Republican and Democratic congresspeople are rich,
              obviously one side is pursuing a political agenda contrary to
              their personal financial interests.
              Hint: It's not the Republicans.  -tom
              \_ there is a difference between self-made entrepreneurs, of which
                 are many Repubs.
                 \_ Exactly. Heinz and Forbes were businessmen and only
                    their wussy offspring are suffering from guilt. More
                    seriously, what makes Tom think that the Democrats are
                    pursuing an agenda that does not benefit them? I never
                    figured him for that sort of sucker.
                    \_ What is your point?  You think that keeping the estate
                       tax is better for the super-rich?  -tom
                       \_ It might be. Where does the tax money go? It may
                          well go to special interests just as well. Do
                          you think the Democrats are trying to help
                          anyone other than themselves? Maybe they are
                          just trying to get re-elected, which in itself
                          benefits them. Don't think they are trying to
                          help poor slobs like us.
                          \_ oh no, an elected official might be doing
                             something because his constituency wants it,
                             not because it benefits him financially!
                             Someone call Tom Delay!  -tom
                             \_ There are rewards for doing what your
                                constituency wants. Most politicians don't
                                have a constituency of poor homeless
                                people, btw. In the end, I'll be surprised
                                if a politician does something that both hurts
                                himself and ruins his career - except fuck
                                \_ There *should* be rewards for doing what
                                   your constituency wants.  -tom
                                   \_ The problem is that the constituency
                                      is dominated by large corporate donors,
                                      powerful unions, and lobbies - special
                                      \_ I don't think any of these groups
                                         are advocating for the estate tax;
                                         perhaps the unions.  -tom
                                         \_ No, but they might be
                                            advocating against it. The
                                            politicians are just listening
                                            to their constituents, right?
                                            \_ you know, when you change your
                                               point in every single post,
                                               it becomes really difficult
                                               to understand what you're
                                               saying.  -tom
                                               \_ If the Dems are arguing
                                                  against it, then that means
                                                  there is probably something
                                                  in it for them. Else,
                                                  why would they? It is
                                                  naive to think they are
                                                  doing something that
                                                  would 'hurt themselves' in
                                                  order to 'help you'.
                                                  \_ I don't care why they're
                                                     doing it; I care whether
                                                     it is a good idea or not.
                                                     Doing the "right" thing
                                                     for selfish reasons is
                                                     certainly better than
                                                     being a money-grubbing
                                                     asshole and giving huge
                                                     kickbacks to the rich.
                                                     \_ What makes it "right"?
                                                        \_ Me.  -tom
                                                           \_ Um, okay.
                                                              \_ who determines
                                                                 what *you*
                                                                 think is
                                                                 Rush?  -tom
                                      \_ "dominated" only because money has
                                         been defined as speech.
                                         \_ Exactly.
                                            \_ You agree with that definition?
                                               \_ Sure. Money talks.
                                                  \_ Mmm.. cliches as
                                                     political philosophy.
                                                     When money is speech,
                                                     those with little have no
                                                     voice..  Do you think
                                                     that's in any way
                                                     in line with the spirit
                                                     of a democracy?
                                                     \_ Nope. And?
                       \_ the super rich do not pay the estate tax, and
                          incur an effective income tax rate of less
                          than 10%, if that.
                          \_ prove it.  -tom
2005/4/9-10 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37125 Activity:high
4/8     I love Conservative logic:
        "The less virtue we have in our society, the more the need for
        government to control our lives, to govern our lives." -Santorum
        In other words, government needs to enforce virtue in order to
        keep government out of our lives.
        \_ Sounds like some hippie needs their virtues l'arned again!
        \_ What's wrong with the above statement?  It's just another way of
           saying, the more enlightened a society, the more each individuals
           regulate themselves, and the less you'll need a government.
           \_ Because there's an implicit "^virtue^of my particular values"
              that I, at least, read in that statement.  -sax
2005/4/6-7 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37090 Activity:nil
4/5     Tom Delay, you're going down! --Ash
        \_ I'm just getting started on the ethics violations and
           corruption -- Tom DeLay
2005/4/1-3 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37040 Activity:nil
4/1     I don't get it.  How is the Schiavo case going to lead to more
        restrictive laws?  The vast majority of the public was against
        all the last-minute theatrics and interventions.  Or is this the
        New York Times being a bunch of hacks again? (not the liberal use
        of the phrase "may be")
        http://csua.org/u/bk2 (nytimes.com)
2005/3/28 [Politics/Domestic] UID:36914 Activity:nil
3/28    Can we get over this Schiavo case already?  It gets really boring.
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2005/3/28 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic] UID:36910 Activity:low
3/27    So I'm really confused about the Schiavo case. Is there a motivation
        for Michael to see his wife die? Is it insurance money or something?
        In another word, what's in it for Michael? I mean, it doesn't cost him
        anything to keep the feeding tube or anything, and if anything, it
        would cost him MORE to remove the feeding tube, no?
        \_ It's called caring about the ones you loved and respecting their
           last wishes.
           \_ which have never been established.  That is the whole point,
              how many times does this have to be repeated?
                \_ It has been established 30 times in the courts.  How
                   many times does this need to be repeated?
                   \_ see above
                   \_ Until the courts come up with a descision the poster
                      agrees with.  It's not due process if you lose!
2005/3/25-27 [Politics/Domestic] UID:36879 Activity:nil
3/25    I'm a moderate because Democrats are socialists and Republicans
        are greedy corporate capitalists.  I am a little Chinese.
        -moderate and proud of it
        \_ Hey, do you have a little Chinese in you?  Would you like some?
           \_ I know a little German.  See, he's right over there!
2005/3/25 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36867 Activity:moderate
3/24    I keep hearing the news pronounce the name Schiavo as shy-vo
        instead of ski-avo (like the word for slave). Which is the
        correct pronounciation?
        \_ Should I say "Al Kay-Da" or "Al Kay-Ee-Da"? Should I say
           "Bin Lah-Den" or "Bin Lay-Den"? I really want to get it right
           because I don't want to disrespect them or anything. -tom
           because I don't want to disrespect them or anything.
           \_ Actually, it's Ahl Qah-ee-da. "Q" is more guttural than the
              English "K".
        \_ In the language of origin (Italian), it's "ski-avo".
           \_ True. In Italy bruschetta is pronounced brusketta but in the
              US it is almost universally pronounced brushetta.
        \_ The news pronunciation is the way the family pronounces it.
        \_ "zom-be"
2005/3/24-25 [Politics/Domestic, Recreation/Humor] UID:36847 Activity:high
3/24    Best commentary on the Schiavo clusterfuck evAR:
        http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war45.html -dans
        \_ No. Commentary is written in sentences and paragraphs.  Comics
           involve art, and graphically based humor.  This is neither.  It is
           in the same category as that fucking talking penguin.
           \_ you mean pokey the penguin?  i love pokey! - danh
              \_ i don't know his name. it's from This Modern World.  death to
                 the penguin!
                 \_ Tom Tomorrow >> the above crap
                    \_ tom tomorrow sucks ass.  He is neither a real cartoonist
                       nor a real editorialist.  He is a guy who uses
                       unspeakably shitty art to make simple minded points
                       using non-funny sarcasm.  he is an insult to
                       real cartoonists everywhere.
                       \_ wow, "unspeakably shitty art"? wtf is your problem?
                          no, more plausible is you hate the message. who is
                          a "real" cartoonist or "real" editorialist? you have
                          been classified as: a fucking idiot.
                          \_ Actually, I usually agree with his message.
                             Examples of real cartoonists would include
                             Trudeau, McGruder, Larson, Waterson, and Andy
                             Singer.  Editorialists are people who *write*
                             in *English*, in actual sentences and paragraphs.
                             Tomorrow is simply a shitty, no-talent hack who
                             sells his crap to people who like his message
                             so much that they have blinded themselves to his
                             lack of talent.
                             \_ Political cartoons are editorial in nature...
                                I'm not saying TT is so wonderful but his
                                art and his english sentences carry as much
                                weight as most other political blatherers out
                                there. How is http://www.andysinger.com/sample5.html
                                               \_ The only thing funny about
                                                  this is the liberal/author-
                                                  itarian implication that
                                                  people wouldn't voluntarily
                                                  follow traffic lights.
                                                  They most certainly would.
                                                  (think blackouts) -phuqm
                                any different? It's worse than most of TT.
                                Larson and Watterson are a completely different
                          \_ Michael Ramirez of the LA Times is a real
                             cartoonist!  http://csua.org/u/bhi
                             \_ Well, he's better than Tom Tommorow.  He
                                actually draws funny pictures.
                                \_ this one is pretty dang shitty:
            \_ Thank you oh great anonymous wanker who knows all of art,
               commentary, and humor.  A few suggestions to guarantee that you
               never let any wisdom taint your blessedly naive omnipotence.
               1) Avoid dictionaries.  Even the literal meaning of words can
                  be dangerous.
               2) Don't ever read {Understanding, Reinventing} Comics by Scott
               3) Don't ever enroll in a top notch Bachelor of Fine Arts
                  program.  You will have your ass handed to you on a platter.
               4) Don't ever enroll in a top notch Master of Fine Arts
                  program.  Your ass will be flambeed, and then handed to you
                  on platter.  This will be done in front of an audience as a
                  performance art piece, and filmed for posterity. -dans
        \_ As stupid as I think the whole Schiavo thing is, I'm really
           not sure what was supposed to be funny about these comics.
        \_ that's great
        \_ FUCKING LAME, don't waste your time reading it. The best jokes are
           quick and to the point, like The Far Side. This is neither.
           \_ There's no accounting for taste.
2005/3/22 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36807 Activity:nil
3/22    Charlie lied, andt the Royal Bitch will become Queen after all.
        http://csua.org/u/bgi (Yahoo! News)
2005/3/21 [Politics/Domestic] UID:36793 Activity:nil
3/21    The way I see the Schiavo case is that the facts of the case are very
        hard to discern, especially with all the politicking going on.
2005/3/21 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:36792 Activity:high
3/21    The way I see the Schiavo case is as follows, it is just my opinion
        and you're free to criticize me if you want:
        -Scientists claim she has no consciousness, and that the probability
         of her regaining consciousness is less than 0.01%, which is
         unlikely. Let's just move on.
        -Family members and religious right activists say that all lives
         are sacred and that despite statistics and science, miracles   DO
         happen. Let's keep her alive.
        \_ Husband claims that Schiavo explicitly requested death over
           being kept alive artificially like she is.
           \_ yeah, after he smacked her so many times she ask
             him to just kill her off
           Also, ^Family members^parents (above)
        \_ I think you have a large number of mitigating factors.
           This is not a right to die case, there is no living will
           and testimony to her wish to die is suspect at best.
           Michael Schiavio's behavior is very suspicious and there
           alot of facts that are not publicized.
           \_ what the hell are you talking about?  there are lots of
              facts.  here is a list:
              http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html - danh
              \_ i suspect less than 10% of US population is aware
                 of the full story involving her case and are basing
                 their judgement on what they see on the alphabet
                 networks.  No need to work yourself into a frenzy.
                 Are you aware of the conflicts of interest between
                 Schiavos lawyer?
                 Are you aware of affadavits from girlfriend stating
                 Michael denied ever discussing Terri's wish to die?
                 Are you aware he euthanized her cats so he could move
                 in with a girlfriend 2 years after her collapse?
                 Are you aware Michael was undergoing pyschological
                 counseling and on prescription drugs at the time
                 of her accident?
                 Are you aware judge Greer is legally blind?
                 \_ It's just a typical case of American blind justice, and
                    there ain't a-nothin' you can do about it.
                 Are you aware several women have restraining orders
                 on Michael?
                 \_ I have read stuff like "michael greer works
                    near the hospital in question and really annoyed
                    the staff about his vegetable wife's care, kind
                    of like an annoying cast member of ER, so someone
                    got a restraining order against michael".  this is a lot
                    different than random women getting restraining orders
                    against him.
                 \_ you mean the hospital staff does.
                 Are you aware Michael's testimony in the malpractice
                 suit contradicts his later testimony about her
                 wish to die?
                 Want more?
                 Murderers on death row get better treatment
                 than this.
    Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fe\
d and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had nu\
merous health problems, but none have been life threatening.
    Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because\
of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996,\
the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point,\
much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spi\
nal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true mir\
acle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious,\
reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.
                 \_ tjb?  is that you?
                 \_ These are good to know, but the most important fact
                    is that there is no documentation of Terri's supposed
                    request to die. Michael could be wanting to sell her
                    organs to the highest bidder for all I care. We don't
                    know what Terri wanted and there is still a chance for
                    her to recover. Given that, she should be kept alive.
                    Anything else is murder, IMO.
                 \_ Why should the US population be aware of this case?
                    Even if all of the above were true, should Congress
                    intervene in this case?  What about in all similar
                    cases when a person in a vegetative state has relatives
                    who fight over the person's right to die?  Should
                    all those people ask Congress to intervene?
           \_ This whole affair is just political grandstanding by the
              Republicans, especially certain congressional leaders
              that have their eyes on 2008.  This is red meat for their
              base and everybody (including the public) knows it.
               \_ Exactly. Come 2008, and they'll say that Democrats are
                  evil heartless liberals, and that Republicans are
                  compassionate. Personally, I think the Democrats should
                  just give in on the basis of "compassion for election" -lib
              \_ http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/978a1Schiavo.pdf
                 \-If this schavio vegetable woman was say a portugese
                   woman and this drama was playing out in lisbon instead
                   of florida, would you "pro culture of life" people advocate
                   congress offering to bring her into the us and continue
                   feeding/hydratiing her? [assuming portugal and her parents
                   would be happy to let her move to the us, it could be done
                   safely, from a medical perspective etc]. --psb
                   \_ No.
                      \- why doesnt the culture of life apply here?
        \_ I think you are a superstitious loon.
2005/3/18-19 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:36745 Activity:nil
3/15    Cut tax, cut funding,  every man for himself. Also,
        bring your own toilet paper. Is this every Libertarian's
        dream? Yahoo News:              http://tinyurl.com/4y5a7
        \_ No, the Lib dream is to not have these people working in government
           offices at all.
2005/3/9-10 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36596 Activity:moderate
3/9     American civil engineers give our infrastructure a D+, say we need
        1.6 trillion in repairs.  I say BRING ON MORE TAX CUTS!!!!!!11!
        http://csua.org/u/bb7 (yahoo news)
        \_ Even better idea, stop fighting wars we don't need to fight.
           That would give us about half the money needed to repair
           \_ Are you crazy?  We're going to NK next, and we're getting
              there by invading Iran, Russia, and China!
              \_ Don't forget Syria.
        \_ Isn't infrastructure mostly a state issue?
           \_ This depends on the scale of the project. The ASCE report card
              targets mid-scale and larger project so the direct fed
              role is large right off the bat. The indirect effect is that as
              the fed gov't backs off of funding joint projects, states have
              less to spend on the smaller stuff (roads and bridges and such)
              that are 100% their responsibility. The real problem with the
              report card is its inherent bias, IMHO. It would be good to hear
              the story from another source. If nothing else it would lend the
              findings more credibility. -- ulysses
              \_ John! How is infrastructure in that Eurofag country of yours?
2005/2/27-3/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:36445 Activity:moderate
2/27    Intellectual Diversity in the Ivory Tower:
        \_ summary: only 1 Stanford professor believes in astrology and only
           1% believe in telepathy. There is no diversity in liberal colleges
           and these elitist Democrats should go to hell. It's written by
           Aaron Swartz. If only our Aaron Smith had written this...
           \_ This summary is taken completely out of context, and entirely
              misses the point.  The article is a sarcastic spoof of a
              supposedly neutral academic study that found only 30%
                       30%? I'd be SHOCKED if it was that high. _/
              of Professors at elite colleges were politically conservative
              and leaped to the clearly ridiculous conclusion, ``There is no
              diversity in liberal colleges...,'' that you cite above.
              Whatever your reason for posting such a weak summary (too caught
              up in your own agenda, too simple to recognize subtle forms of
              humor like sarcasm, not funny enough to carry the joke about
              aaron@csua), you should get a clue.  Please kindly refrain from
              breeding until you do so.  In the mean time, sign your posts so
              I know who I'm insulting. -dans
              \_ Say dans, before you start talking out your ass, might I
                 recommend actually _reading_ what the above piece is
                 satirizing? Hint: the link is at the top. "30%" is hardly
                 the same thing as "9 to 1". And unless you make the argument
                 of "well, the republicans are too stupid to listen to anyway",
                 which, I'd say, only further supports their point re
                 leftist brainwashing, I think there's definitely something
                 to think long and hard about there. -alexf, who, like
                   the authors of the PA weekly article, also votes largely
                   Democrat, and still thinks there's a major problem with
                   extreme political bias in academia
                 \_ Alex, you are a self-described libertarian.  I would be
                    curious about your reasons for mostly voting Democrat
                    as opposed to Republican (Note: I think either are
                    reasonable for a libertarian.  I have just been leaning
                    the other way myself, and I am curious for another point
                    of view that starts from mostly the same premises as me).
                    If you don't want to answer this here, but do want answer,
                    please send me a mail or something.  -- ilyas
                    \_ I'm not alex but I don't think the Republicans are
                       giving "less government". They cut some taxes, fine.
                       But that just goes into the deficit. Meanwhile they
                       pump up spending. A lot. And increased federal gov't
                       power with Patriot Act provisions etc. And engaging
                       in a costly unnecessary war doesn't seem libertarian
                       to me.
                       \_ It's pretty much common knowledge no mainstream US
                          political party is a 'small government' party.  Hence
                          my question.  I am perfectly open to the possibility
                          that the DNC is more in line with libertarian ideals
                          than the RNC, I just haven't found that to be the
                          case in practice. -- ilyas
                          \_ Given that this is the case I don't choose between
                             them on that criteria but rather my personal trust
                             and assessment of them in other areas.
                             \_ I choose based on issues. *shrug* -- ilyas
              \_ LOL, you realize that the post you're responding to is
                 a similarly sarcastic response to the original article,
                 don't you? I suppose that you yourself fail to understand
                 the subtle forms of sarcasm that you supposedly purport.
                 It's rather ironic that the troll got trolled.
                 \_ You do not seem to know what sarcasm means.
                 \_ And you most definitely do not know what ironic means.
                    Please refer to the appendix of Eggers' "A Heartbreaking
                    Work of Staggering Genius" for a thorough introduction.
              \_ I'm pretty sure you've been trolled.  I can't believe anyone
                 on the motd is as dense as pp appears to be.
2005/2/15 [Reference/Law, Politics/Domestic] UID:36182 Activity:nil
2/15    Alright Israelyas, I'm so sick and tired of your stupid questions.
        It's time to ask a few questions myself. You are a self proclaimed
        libertarian ("fuck everyone else, all man for himself, meritocracy
        above all else"), and you've made statements to the effect of
        "charity should not be enforced with bruce force", "fuck tax", etc.
        What do you think about existing laws that protect the weak, which
        goes against with the idea of survival of the fittest? What do you
        think about laws on Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Handicap and
        Disability? Law requiring public structures to be accessible by
        wheel-chairs, special phones for hearing impaired, etc? Isn't that
        like almost enforcing ethics/humanity through brute force? Isn't
        that encouraging the weak? How about Civil Rights Law and laws that
        protect the weaker sex/religion/race and ensures and sometimes
        enforces equalness regardless of whether they deserve it or not?
        \_ I am curious, are you the HEIL German John guy? -- ilyas
        \_ I am not the op, but I sure hell feel the same.
                \_ seconded
           \_ Feel the same about what? That the disabled should in fact not
              have special privileges, or that ilyas is annoying?
2005/2/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:36091 Activity:nil
2/7     I was reading about how the US budget is ~$2.5 trillion. The debt
        is ~$7.5 trillion. Why not cut budgets 10% across the board and
        pay this back in the next 30 years? 10% cuts are not nice, but
        not crippling either.
        \_ your oversimplification starts with forgetting about interest.
           \_ An oversimplification that would make a libertarian proud!
           \_ Not forgotten, since interest is part of the budget. In fact,
              assuming that the debt gets paid back faster that will mean
              > 10% available in later years. I am assuming that there is
              not a *deficit* so the cuts have to be larger than 10% in
        \_ I can't remember the numbers, but Cameho had a similar argument
           when he ran for CA governor, which went something like this:
           We have a $20B deficit, but only 6 years ago our CA budget was
           $40B and now it is $100B.  We should be able to cut some stuff
           and have a surplus.  I think the simple explanation is that
           there is too much pressure (mostly promises to constituents)
           to spend money, and little political benefits to actually saving
           money. Just like how many people could get out of credit card debt
           just by not buying lots of crap for a while, but they won't do it.
        \_ heck let's tax the Iraqi people while we're at it.
        \_ I can't remember the numbers, but Cameho had a similar argument
           when he ran for CA governor, which went something like this:
           We have a $20B deficit, but only 6 years ago our CA budget was
           $40B and now it is $100B.  We should be able to cut some stuff
           and have a surplus.  I think the simple explanation is that
           there is too much pressure (mostly promises to constituents)
           to spend money, and little political benefits to actually saving
           money. Just like how many people could get out of credit card debt
           just by not buying lots of crap for a while, but they won't do it.
2005/2/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:36035 Activity:kinda low
2/2     So I deleted the entire interesting Europe vs USA growth rate
        economics discussion because I am a cranky, pissy libertarian
        who didn't like where the facts were leading me, right?
        \_ Actually, I assumed you were a pissy authoritarian dickhead that
           insists on dictating which threads are 'acceptable' by your
           closed-minded narrow standards.
        \_ AFAIK, the facts were leading away from the initial conclusion
           and towards that of cranky, pissy libertarians.
           \_ Yes, but that assumes the dickhead actually *read* and
              *understood* any of the thread before coming to his myopic
2005/1/31 [Politics/Domestic] UID:36003 Activity:very high
1/31    Looks like liberals can look forward to losing the next
        generation, too:
        \_ I blame the TEACHERS.
           Oh, that's funny.  That's exactly who the article blamed.. GOD.
        \_ This is hardly a surprise.  High School students don't have any
           Freedom of Speech, why should they see any need to protect it?
        \_ Think about it, teenagers have parents who limit what they
           can do, what they can watch, where they can go, what they can
           say, and who they hang out with. Same thing in school.
           In addition, the rights afforded to an adult are not present
           for an infant, so the first amendment doesn't even really apply
           to them. The survey should've been done in college campuses, not
           in high school.
           \_ You're right, for both the above reason, and because college
              students are less likely to lie because they think it's
              funny.  (Really, did you ever tell the truth in High School
              when the survey asked how often you had sex?)  The only
              problem is that college campuses may not include the
           \_ Except I had those same conditions when I was in HS, and I doubt
              this would have been the result back then.
              \_ High school students are almost always going to be more
                 conservative than college students. People's views can change a
                 lot during the period from 14 to 24 (or so). Polling high
                 conservative than college students. People's views can change
                 a lot during the period from 14 to 24 (or so). Polling high
                 school students is not useful for this purpose.
           \_ Looking back when I was in High School, I think I was pretty
              clueless about freedom of speech issues, but I think I knew
              a lot more than the average student.  This article isn't that
        \_ Why is this a liberal vs conservative issue? Liberals believe
           in censorship and suppression of alternate ideas as much as
           conservatives do (they are just different ideas, ex. print
           something about global warming is a sham theory or some other
           liberal sacred cow and the pot head profs come out in full
           force claiming that you are "misrepresentin'").
           \_ Do you seriously not understand the difference between getting
              pissed off over something someone publishes and trying to
              get publications banned by the government?  You bastards are the
              ones who mouth the words "small government" and then try to
              pass laws using the MEN WITH GUNS, to borrow your jargon, to
              restrict people's right to free speech.  Can you name a single
              instance of a book that liberals hate getting banned in a blue
              state?   Why don't you go picket outside the spongebob square
              pants studio with your fellow freedom lovers?
              \_ No, I really don't. It is the same damn principle. Both
                 sides want to keep ideas and information away from the
                 people. On one side it is stuff about science v religion,
                 the war, whatever, on the other it is stuff about global
                 warming, pollution, race, gender equality, Israel v
                 Palestine, &c.
                 The smart person knows that both sides are lying to him
                 and evaluates all information he recv based on this
                 BTW, who is spongebob and why should I picket him?
                 \_ You are a complete fucking idiot if you think a scientist
                    criticizing some kind of global warming article is the
                    same principle as the government banning it.
                    \_ Global warming is just one example. Do you really
                       think that the liberals would let you print an
                       article describing the Palestinians as a bunch
                       of thugs and hoodlums who are killing the innocent
                 \_ Please list the books that liberals have had banned.
                    Wanting to ban is not the same thing as actually banning.
                    The only way your viewpoint has any merit has to do with
                    the preperation of course material.  The PC (liberal)
                    police has totally watered down course material to the
                    point of extreme blandness while the fundies are always
                    trying to push creationism down kids' throats.  I'm not
                    aware of liberal groups banning books though.
                    \_ I wasn't commenting on book banning. Frankly I don't
                       care who bans what book or if liberals ban one book
                       and conservatives ban another. It is ideas that I'm
                       talking about. Both sides want to make it so that
                       really only have one pov, theirs. So what if the
                       current gov wants to vet the newspapers? Except for
                       the Fry's ad and the comics they are full of trash
                       anyway. So they want to edit tv shows, tv is full
                       of trash anyway. There are very few things worth
                       knowing in this world and nothing can prevent you
                       discovering those things for yourself.
2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35871 Activity:nil
1/24    So, ilyas, what is the libertarian solution to problems like this?
        \_ motd troll tax. -- ilyas
           \_ So, in other words, you don't have a solution, right?
              \_ I am no longer interested in having serious discussions on
                 the motd.  If you really want to learn about libertarianism
                 take a poly sci. class, read some books, even email me.
                 Don't troll the motd though. -- ilyas
        \_ I'll answer for him:  the solution is a little chat session
           with a baseball bat, without such piddly-squat legal obstructions
           as aggravated assault laws.  -John
           \_ Libertarianism: detente thuggery.
           \_ I've maintained for years that the only effective deterrent for
              spam is a guy named Guido with a baseball bat.
2005/1/21-22 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:35832 Activity:high
1/21    Can you guys help me out? I'm trying to expose the Amway business
        model and I'm doing research. What are some past companies that
        operate like Amway? I remember there was one in the 70s and one in
        the 80s but they're defunct because of lawsuits. I can't remember
        their names. Any info you guys have, like the people behind it, and
        how they got sued, etc would be great. Thanks.
        \_ http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_los.html
           I was approached by this guy from INA.
        \_ Herbalife
        \_ Market America
        \_ http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/dsotour.html
        \_ expose Amway?  What part are you trying to expose?  I don't get
           it.  They're obnoxious, but I don't think it's illegal.
           \_ expose that while a very few percentage of people actually
              do make money, more than 97% of them never made more than
              $100 a year, and in fact, more than 50% of them lost money
              because they were buying Amway products for themselves so
              that they could meet the money quota for bonuses.
              \_ Aren't you about 30 years late with this news?!
                \_ try 50 years late. Well I'm just annoyed because I just
                   found out my sister and my aunt joined it. HOW STUPID!!!
                   I always thought only uneducated ppl joined these things,
                   but boy, was I wrong.
                   \_ According to the DSA, in 1996, 59.3% of American
                      distributors were female, 23.4% male,and 17.3% couples...
                      The restraints for women still in the regular workforce
                      in addition to the pressure to help the family have made
                      direct selling very attractive to women. Many DSO's
                      directly appeal to this need. -from the article above
        \_ Cutco
        \_ Do those encyclopedia or vacuum cleaner (Kirby) salepeople count?
           Or those water filter people I saw once.
           Man, the Kirby guy I saw years ago seemed sooo annoyed when we
           didn't buy his fancy vacuum and he cleaned our large living room
           carpet for free.
2005/1/13 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35691 Activity:high
1/13    Dear Liberal who suggested that I tell my 2 conservatives
        friends about David Kay/Duelfer-- I just have one thing to say
        about their reactions. If you have to explain something in more
        than a sentence or two when their minds are made up, it
        sounds like blah blah blah to them. Any more suggestion?
        \_ Tell 'em the President said they've found no WMDs.
           \_ Incidentally, that's what I told my younger brother last night.
              Looks like he's still joining the National Guard though.
              \_ Does he know what jobs he wants to get?
        \_ Write them off with the libs who think there was disenfranchisement
           in Florida in 2000.
           \_ ...or those who would pretend you're not a pathetic troll.
              \_ Feel bad about being written off?
                 \_ No more than you feel bad about being a troll.
           \_ There is disenfranchisement in every election. If you don't
              realize that, you are really too stupid to participate
              in the conversation.
2005/1/13-14 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:35690 Activity:high
1/12    Can library fines affect your credit rating?
        \_ Just pay them; a library is one of few institutions
           that could probably use the money for a good cause.
           \_ In general, I agree.  These are fines from over 10 years ago
              from the town where I went to highschool which I never intend
              to return to.  The librarians there are evil assholes who exist
              only to persecute everyone who is not a bitchy old lady like
              themselves.  They refuse to accept payment by mail, and demand
              that I return to their shitty library to pay the fines in
              person.  If it were any other library in the world, I never
              would have let it get to this point in the first place.
          \_ hahahaha good cause? I don't think the public library is
             all that great. This is one fine example where the tax
             dollar is used inefficiently. How about less tax and more
             money for people to buy good books? Fuck all government
             aided infrastructures, let the people rule.
                                     -less tax more self-reliance guy
                \_ Go look up the budget for your town and decide whether the
                   library even makes the top 50 list for pork.  Seriously.
                Go look it up.
                \_ Go look up the budget for your town and decide whether the
                   library even makes the top 50 list for pork.  Seriously.
                   Go look it up.  Also, every time I go to my local library
                   (I live in a medium sized city), I see some kind of job
                   training or literacy program being hosted there, and I see
                   a lot of poor people reading who I'm guessing would not
                   otherwise be.  It seems to me that this translates directly
                   into more economic productivity for poor people, hence less
                   welfare outlay and more tax revenue for the government.  So
                   if you're just going to look at it in terms of tax revenue,
                   over a long period of time, I'm pretty sure the library is
                   a net gain.
                   \_ People become poor and unable to afford books because
                      the government allows (in fact entices) them to be
                      lazy through things like welfare and public library.
                      Once you cut them loose you will be amazed how self-
                      reliant they can be.  Besides, why do people who cannot
                      support themselves deserve to read anything anyway?
                      \_ I have zits on my ass that could troll better than
                                    -less tax more self-reliance guy
                      \_ Uhm, the majority of people who are unemployed or
                         poor aren't lazy. Ever heard of supply and demand?
                         When the labor demand goes down, the supply stays
                         the same and people end up being unemployment and
                         as a result poor. No matter how self-reliant you are
                         when the economy is bad everyone loses. It's like
                         being in a tsunami. You're just one person. If the
                         environment is not conducive to you being employed,
                         you don't have much control over it. Most people
                         don't realize how easy it is to be completely wiped
                         out until it happens to them.
          \_ Library fines don't go to the library.  Typically they go to the
             city (or county) general fund. --married a librarian
             \-Dear Married to a Librarian: can you ask your spouse what is
               the typical lag time between an anticipated book coming out ...
               say something by a major author like Tom Wolfe, but not
               something like Harry Potter, and the library gettin it on their
               shelf? It seems like it is more than a "couple of days".
               I could understand the delay if it was somehow cheeper to
               go through some special publisher's channel but as far as I
               know, that is not the case [I believe the SF Pub Lib paid
               more per copy of Harry Potter than was the AMAZONG price].
               ok tnx. --psb
2005/1/10-11 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35639 Activity:very high
1/10    This is so fucking childish. What's next, they going to register
        the potential democratic presidential candidates?
        http://csua.org/u/anp (Yahoo News, link substituted, http://csua.org=good)
        \_ Bah! Both sides do this.  Realistically, if I had any kind of
           polical aspirations, I would have registered mynameforoffice.uld
           five years ago.  His dumbass fault for not doing it.
           As long as the Forces of Good have  http://www.whitehouse.org
           I'm not going to complaign.
        \_ Oh the horror! A Republican might win in MA! Last time that
           happened was Weld, but he was a RINO.
        \_ This will be deleted by one of the censor happy conservatives.
           \_ I agree with the op (that it's childish).  Why do you think
              conservatives will censor it? -emarkp
              \_ Because they censor anything that criticizes the Republican
                 Party. I get at least one motd post censored every day.
                 \_ I think you might be wrong in assuming that everything
                    critical of the Republicans which is censored is censored
                    by conservatives.  Think about it. -emarkp
                    \_ Well I considered the possibility that it is just
                       someone who hates politics in general, but stuff like
                       the CBS firings entry stays up for at least a day.
                       \_ And yet I had to restore the John Fund reference.  I
                          suspect the majority of deleted posts are simple
                          mistakes. -emarkp
                          \_ by dipwads like you who don't use motdedit?  -tom
                             \_ Fuck motdedit.  In the ear.
                             \_ Possibly by others who don't use motdedit.
                                However, I don't value people by whether they
                                use 'motdedit' or not.  My editor complains if
                                the motd has changed while I was editing.  I
                                copy my changes, reload the motd and paste the
                                changes back in. -emarkp
                             \_ who died and made motdedit the standard?
                          \_ Since this mostly happens late at night when
                             there is little editing activity going on, I
                             doubt it. But you might be right.
                       \_ Where is outcry on the DDOS attacks on the
                          littlegreenfootballs blog that helped bring down
                          Rather going on at the moment?
                          \_ http://lgfwatch.blogspot.com
                             What part of "stop it guys" don't you
                             \_ HA! A blog to "watch" a blog. Police ur own.
                                Esp. with the suggestion the writer killed
                                \_ Obviously a joke.
2005/1/4 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35541 Activity:high
1/4     emarkp, jrleek, and other conservatives who think the war on
        Iraq is a good thing and has made the world safer, please
        read this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6786899/site/newsweek
        \_ Funny, I never remember saying the Iraq war is a good thing or
           has made the world safer.  Why do you continue to mix me and
           emarkp up?  Are the names that similar, or are you just stupid?
           \_ you're a conservative.
              \_ Wow, good thing you can use that word to extrapolate
                 _all_ of my political opinions.  I take it you're
                 'liberal?' because, you know you can only be one or the
                 other. Oh, and don't forget, liberal = democrat and
                 conservative = republican. -jrleek
                 \_ Personally, I pride myself on being a raving, wingut
                    \_ I pride myself on being a radical apathetic.
        \_ Why would anyone read this drivel?  And what does this have to do
           with the war in Iraq being a good thing and/or making the world
           \_ I envy you.  -poor dumb bastard suckered into reading drivel
        \_ OP is an idiot. 'Nuff said.
           \_ Man, I wished he had signed his post.
2004/12/29-30 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Domestic] UID:35487 Activity:high
12/29   Hey MOTD -- I was hoping to buy a bottle of fine cognac or armagnac
        for a friend of wealth and taste.  I have a pretty generous budget, but
        I know next to nothing about either of these liquors.  Can anybody
        give me any recommendations, and/or point me toward a vendor of fine
        wine/spirits in the SF/BA (preferably in Castro Valley or San Mateo)?
        TIA.                   -mice
        \_ Check out D&M Liquor in San Francisco.  They specialize in
           Cognac and Armagnac with an *excellent* selection.
        \_ K&L Wine Merchants in SF or Redwood City
           \_ Gracias.    -mice
              \_ As a brief followup, I spoke with the Distilled Spirits
                 Department manager Susan Purnell, and she was really quite
                 knowledgeable and very, very helpful.  Thanks again for the
                 link.        -mice
        \_ Beverages and More also sells 'good stuff', but good luck finding a
           reccomendation there.
        \_ There are 3 grades of increasing price/quality, V.S., V.S.O.P., and
           X.O. (aka 'Napoleon').  Each individual maker's grade can differ a
           lot though.  (You can find crap cognac calling itself X.O.)
           The 3 biggest brands of Cognac, which you'll be 'safe' going with,
           are in no particular order Henessey, Courvosier, and Martell.
           \-i think one of the "high end" grand mariners is better than say
               the Hennesey XO.
        \_ It is hard to impress/please "a friend of wealth and taste" with
           something that as commmon to him/her as distilled water.  Why not
           showing off your skill in troff and m4?
           \_ This is true, which is why I opted to look for distilled
              alcohol rather than water (which has a rather simple and naive
              bouquet to even the most discerning palate).  Thanks for
              the suggestion, though.  I'll perhaps look into some nweaver-
              vintage lisp code as an alternative in case the alcohol thing
              doesn't work out.         -mice
2004/12/23-25 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35418 Activity:kinda low
12/23   Does the US president need to get a visa, like normal
        tourists, to countries that require visas?
        \_ No, because they're heads of state. Heads of state are
           invited to other countries, so visas don't generally apply.
           You need a visa if you're not invited specifically to a country.
           That's like 99% of us.
        \_ It was said that Bush would have to get special permission to
           visit Canada, thanks to his prior DUI.  But we'd probably invade
           if they actually made him do it.
        \_ I would assume he gets a diplomatic passport from
           the US State Department. Diplopats are above the law.
                \_ Do you think the reverse situation works the
                   same (i.e. foreign president visiting the US)?
2004/12/14 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35296 Activity:nil
12/14   Another libertarian patriot, defending himself from the big evil
        government, is sentenced to death by the liberal justice system.
        STW for "san leandro sausage king"
        \_ You're joking, right?  It's not very funny.
2004/12/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:35238 Activity:nil
12/9    I good overview of what has been happening in Ukraine during the
        last month:
2004/12/7-8 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35198 Activity:high
12/7   Economist article on the slide of the dollar
        \_ What I got out of it:
           (1) Dollar falls too far
           (2) Foreign banks which keep a lot of dollars (as a currency which
               retains value) will convert to Euro / yen
             (3) Dollar falls even farther
           (4) The U.S. government and consumers just can't buy as much with a
                 dollar == Inflation
           The unmentioned kicker:
           The U.S. will beat the shit out of any foreign government which
           wants to sell its dollars.
           \_ Much as I'd like to see it happen, I don't think the US is going
              to start nailing most of Asia and Europe.  The countries we are
              capable of "beating the shit out of" are most likely not the
              ones holding a lot of dollars, or are they?  -John
               \_ Are Dubya and friends working on ways to make it economically/
                  politically painful for foreign governments to sell their US$?
                  \_ what for?  dubya and friends want the US dollar to fall,
                     just not in an uncontrolled panicky way.  foreign governments
                     all want the US dollar not to fall too much, but they also
                     don't want to be the one left holding the bag.
            \_ Isn't low Dollar good for our exports?
               \_ insofar as imported stuff getting more expensive in the U.S.
                  is good and domestic stuff getting more expensive at a
                  smaller rate -obviously not an economist
               \_ Yes, but our exports are way out of whack vis a vis imports.
                  \_ true, so what happens to the 90 pct of consumer goods
                     we buy that are made in china when the renminbi increases
                     50-100 pct over the value of the dollar?
                       \_ at most 20 pct.  prc government won't let it float
                          freely but just increase the range where the yuan
                          is allowed to trade.
                  \_ That will not be true if the dollar falls a lot,
                     though. The other plus of a weak dollar is that it
                     makes it less expensive to pay back the debt we are
                     borrowing. The US will raise the dollar once Iraq
                     stabilizes. Right now, we want it weak since we are
                     borrowing a lot for the war.
                     \_ It creates pain for holders of our treasuries,
                        but does it make it less expensive for us?
                        The debt is still in dollars and dollars are
                        what we have.  No?  It only becomes less
                        expensive for us if there's inflation?
                        \_ If we borrow Euros then we have to borrow fewer
                           of them. A falling dollar is much the same as
                           \_ don't understand what you are saying.
                              all our debt are denominated in dollars.
                  \_ Yes, US don't export much anyway.  The main effect
                     would be inflation since we buy lots and lots of
                    stuff from overseas.
                     stuff from overseas.  I mean, what does US export?
                     Mainly like food stuff.  But yes, letting dollar
                     slide is the least painful way for US to get out
                     of its fiscal and economic mess.
                     \_ Uhm, the U.S. is the single largest exporting country
                        in terms of dollar value. We are basically the
                        bread basket to the world. We are also the largest
                        importing country in the world. We just simply
                        import more than we export in terms of dollars.
                         \_ the difference isn't that much either, only
                            about 500 billion a year.  US economy is
                            like 10 trillion.
                            \_ Try spending 5% more than you make every
                               year and see how long you can get away
                               with it. Then again, the average American
                               consumer is probably doing just that right
                               now. Oh a cold rain is gonna fall!
                               \_ Well, we could just not repay the debt.
                                  It's not like this is the first time an
                                  industrialized country just reniged on
                                  it's debt. Since we're the proverbial
                                  300lb gorilla in the room, you think
                                  anyone is really going to mess with us
                                  if we just say "sorry, we're just not going
                                  to honor all those treasury bonds"?
                                  Sure, there would be economic repercussions,
                                  but it isn't like we'll be invaded and I
                                  doubt that other countries will just stop
                                  investing in us. After all, we are the
                                  largest market in the world.
                                    \_ Do we do that against US based holders
                                       of those bonds?  If not, how do you tell
                                       who is who?  In any case, as dire as
                                     the current situation is, I don't
                                     think we're at the stage where such
                                     a drastic and disastrous measure
                                     needs to be taken.
                                  \_ Nobody invaded Argentina when they
                                     defaulted on their debt either, they
                                     just suffered mightily economically.
                                     As we will if we defualt on our debt.
                     \_ How about software exports?  Is it big $ in the big
                        picture of things?
             \_ what you missed in the last paragraph:
                "American bond yields (long-term interest rates) would soar,
                 quite likely causing a deep recession."
                Another article quoted that 50 pct of new mortgages are
                variable interest rates.  In fact, Greenspan himself urged
                consumers to borrow @ variable interest rates.  When bond
                interest rates start to soar, mortgage interest will soar,
                and the number of defaults and bankruptcies will be epic.
                Don't be a home-owner when that happens.  Oh, not to
                mention interest rates for all other debts: equity lines,
                credit cards, etc.  The US consumer is deeply deeply in
                debt, and when interest rates start to rise, the picture
                won't be pretty.

                Oh, the other thing you missed.  the US will not do anything
                to the Asian countries which will do the majority of the
                dollar reserve sell-off.  China which has $515 bn in reserve
                has already announced a planned sell-off that will likely
                accelerate as the dollar fars further.
                \_ Oh look, Mr. Housing Bubble Is Going To Pop is back
                 with a better argument. Are you still bitter that
                 you didn't buy a house in the Bay Area back when
                 you could still afford it?
                 \_ Hmmmm, if nobody can afford to buy a house in the bay
                    area in the future, wouldn't that mean that house prices
                    will FALL in the future?!?!?!
                 \_ This has nothing to do with the housing bubble.  This
                    is about overall massive recession of the US economy,
                    which will take housing prices with it.  If you have
                    a house, and you're making 5 pct 30 yr fixed mortgage
                    payments on it, more power to you.  Just hold on to
                    your job, and weather the storm.
              \_ US is stuck in Iraq.  All our allies hate our guts.
                 Nobody will give a damn about us "beating the shit out of"
               \_ Troll. Has the US announced war on China?
            \_ I like US dollar falling.  It makes my parents very rich
                 when they move to the US.
2004/11/29-30 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35114 Activity:insanely high
11/29   Powell's refusal to recognize the contested election result in Ukraine
        is true proof that irony is not dead.
        \_ 2000 U.S. election hijinks != Ukraine hijinks
           \_ Exit polls that don't match the final tally... hmm... where
              have we heard that?
               \_ EARLY exit polls in the US vs total exit polls in the Ukraine?
                  \_ And even if they were equivalent, what the hell did Powell
                     have to do with Florida?
        \_ I haven't been following this story too closely, but why does it
           matter what powell thinks? Will what he thinks become the
           official US stand on this election issue?
           \_ I believe the official US stand is the same as the Europeans: that
              new elections are needed.
        \_ Huh? No one else other than the Russian ruling elite and also
           the Russia's vassal states among the ex-Soviet republics has
           recognized the election results as legitimate. Even Putin now
           wishes he didn't said what he said right after the election.
2004/11/27 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:35086 Activity:high
11/27   There will be no discussion of the dollar's collapse, casualties
        in Iraq, the soon to be cancelled election, or anything else that
        might reflect unfavourably on Our Glorious Leader.
        \_ Ah, the liberal commentators have reared their ugly heads.
           How does it feel to be continuously losing, out of power,
           and basically wrong? And what hath happened to thine cries
           for emigration my faithful liberal? Useful idiots indeed!
        \_ hey motd economists: I've been puzzling over the difference
           between "tax and spend liberals" and "deficit spending
           republicans" since I realized the dollar did this during
           Reagan's tenure as well.  What differences are there between
           taxing citizens and siphoning value out of the US economy
           to fund government activity (besides the marketing appeal
           of claiming to not tax)?  This is a serious question because
           I don't claim to understand the global market dynamics.
2004/11/24 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35069 Activity:moderate
11/24   Stupid question.  Why USA complains about Ukraine's election, but
        never bother to complain about election in TW, which is extremely
        \_ Cuz TW is just a puppet state. As long as the motherboards keep
           coming who cares who's president. It's like worrying about the
           governor of Washington, the real power is BGates.
                \_ what happened to the taiwanese leader who had himself
                   shot? - danh
                   \_ He certified himself as the election winner and is now
                      busily rewriting TW's history textbook to remove any
                      mention of China while adding praise of Japanese
                      imperial army's heroic conduct during WWII.
2004/11/12 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34857 Activity:moderate
11/12   put your boring ass michelle malkin "oh liberals think
        obama is so photogenic and it MAKES ME MAD!!!!!!!!!" link back!
        come on!  do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        \_ !!!1!!!1!!!!
        \_ Is Obama's penis large and tax-free too?
           \_ Well, does your anus still hurt?
2004/11/9 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34780 Activity:high
11/9    http://www.fuckthesouth.com
        \_ That 60-seat majority in the Senate is going to be really sweet come
           2006.  Keep it up guys.
           \_ Filibuster-proof!
        \_ I prefer:
        \_ He needes a history lesson.
           \_ You need a spelling lesson.
        \_ He needs a history lesson.
          \_ why? point out some things.
             \_ The Civil War was not about slavery.  The Founding
                Fathers weren't all urbanites from the northeast.
                The Founding Fathers specifically designed the
                government so highly populous urban centers didn't
                have total control over rural areas.  Etc.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:34710 Activity:nil
11/4    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/pol/47987927.html
        Voter IQ. Republican vs. Democrat state intelligence.
        \_ Yes, we all know that.  Democrats are really really really smart
           and Republicans are really really really dumb.  You're also good
           while we're all evil.  You are the smartest, most beautiful, best
           educated, correct thinking, most well spoken, and closer to God
           than (well ok not that since you don't believe in one) us.  We are
           moronic bible thumping mouth breathing pig fucking red necks
           (thanks to the wall on election night for that line) while you are
           the peak of billions of years of the evolutionary process.  Since
           you got crushed that must mean the world is just an evil place full
           of stupid and bad people.  Your only hope is to flee to Europe.  We
           shall miss you dearly.  With you gone, what will we laugh at?  The
           French are just too easy a target.  The Brits we feel sorry for.
           The Spanish are craven.  The Germans are beneath contempt.  And the
           rest don't add up to enough to fill a piss bucket.  Please excuse
           me while I go knock a pig unconcious with a bible so I can give it
           a good old fashioned Republican fucking.  Maybe in 4 years you'll
           learn to treat the opposition as something more than subhuman and
           actually get some votes from those people.  I doubt it.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34704 Activity:high
11/5    A somewhat different reaction to the election by some Iranian
        activist types.
        \_ A more normal reaction from America's lefties
        \_ The liberal media doesn't want to cover the millions of Iranians
           who expressed their satisfaction of Dubya's victory by calling and
           congratulating each other, many of whom were seen walking in the
           streets shaking hands and showing discreet V signs!
           I haven't seen a single article from the liberal media on this,
           including the AP and Reuters!  WTF??!?
2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34676 Activity:nil
11/4    See, there are reasonable people in government:
        Vice President Dick Cheney went a step further, calling [the election
        results] a "mandate." Moderate Republican Sen. Arlen Specter cautioned
        Wednesday that President Bush did not earn "a mandate" in his election
        victory and said the president should be "mindful" of potential
        confirmation problems should he have the opportunity to nominate a
        justice to the Supreme Court. "If you have a race which is decided by
        a percent or two, if you have a very narrowly divided country -- that
        does not qualify for the traditional mandate and ... to govern, we
        have to bring the country together," he said. "I believe that
        President Bush will have that very much in mind." ... "We start off
        with the basic fact that the Democrats have filibustered and you can
        expect them to filibuster if the nominees are not within the broad
        range of acceptability," Specter said. "And I think there is a very
        broad range of presidential discretion. But there is a range."
2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34669 Activity:high
11/4    So I was thinking, do RNC and DNC spy on each other? Can one
        party send a spy, infiltrate, and steal the masterplan of the
        other party? I mean, had the DNC had any intell on the other
        party, this would not have happened...
        \_ Rolling Stone had an article from a guy who volunteered
           at the local level in Florida.  I doubt either party
           succesfully infiltrates the inner sanctum. - danh
           \_ Which party?  And what did he say?
2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34648 Activity:high
11/3    The Democratic Party is disintegrating this very minute.
        The party for the uneducated and the ultra-educated, it is
        anything but mainstream America. Sad. Very sad.
        \_ troll
             \_ no he has a point. Stop denying. "the Democratic Party
                has gone from a ruling party that led the nation and
                the world in creating a new global system to a party
                that suffers from a paralyzing self-doubt. "
2004/11/3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34633 Activity:nil
11/3    Is the motd liberal, conservative, libertarian or moderate?
        \_ All of the above?
           \_ seconded.
              \_ in general, what is the trend?
                 \_ liberal
                    \_ That might be true of CSUA in general, but I don't think
                       it's true of the motd specifically anymore.
        \_ knee-jerk.  -John
2004/11/3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34592 Activity:nil
11/3    More racist southern republicans
        He's not a RINO either.
        \_ What race is this guy?  He looks half-hispanic half-indian or
2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34562 Activity:nil
11/2    One week after the elections.  what will the motd talk about?
        \_ Sex.
        \_ Uhm, the election maybe?
2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic, Recreation/Sports] UID:34556 Activity:high
11/2    How many football nuts care more about the BCS polls than the
        election polls: .
        \_ This country doesn't afford you rights, it affords you
2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34553 Activity:nil
11/2    What is the definition of liberal arts? Why is it called
        liberal arts and not conservative arts? I mean, does art
        automatically implies liberal?
        \_ From 'webster "liberal arts"':
           1 : the medieval studies comprising the trivium and quadrivium
           2 : the studies (as language, philosophy, history, literature,
           abstract science) in a college or university intended to provide
           chiefly general knowledge and to develop the general intellectual
           capacities (as reason and judgment) as opposed to professional or
           vocational skills
           \_ oh cool thanks. So liberals have chiefly general knowledge
              and have better intellectual capacities (as reason and
              judgement) than vocationally trained conservatives. YAY! -liberal
2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign] UID:34543 Activity:nil
11/2    I finally figured out how to find out the political
        slant of different news organizations. COLOR!!! Look at
        http://foxnews.com as the most obvious example.  It's very red...
        menus, icons, etc. It must be a RED neck right wing nut
        news corporation, something many people will agree to.  -troll
2004/11/1 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34493 Activity:moderate
11/1    I just saw Passion of the Christ last night.  I'm not Christian and
        I don't know much about it.   Who are the guys in black carrying
        staffs and trying to get the roman governor to crucify him?  Why
        was Jesus called a galean (sp?)?  And what is with that fat guy
        King Herod who had jurisdiction over galeans?  He seems to share
        power with the Roman governor, which is weird.  If the elderly guys
        in the black are Jews I can see why Jews would see the movie as
        anti-semitic.  The movie portrayed the romans as being forced into
        killing Jesus.  Otherwise there would be an uprising.  Ok, thanks.
        \_ Galilee is a place.  Jesus was from around there.  I haven't seen
           the movie, but the main group wanting Jesus killed were the
           powerful Jewish priests.  The Romans didn't care too much about
           a Jewish religious struggle, but they *did* care about order, and
           some young radical threatening the establishment was no good.  FWIW
           I don't believe Pontius Pilate 'had it in' for Jesus, but the
           historical record shows he was a pretty brutal dictator.
           -lapsed Episcopalian
           \_ Pilate had no problems killing people ruthlessly.  However he was
              in a tough position.  A riot that he squelched caused the Roman
              emperor to basically say "one more of these and you're toast".
              If he crucified Jesus and Jesus' followers rioted he was screwed.
              If he didn't, there might be a riot from the people who wanted
              Jesus dead.  You can see how he'd want to avoid blame.
           \_ Jesus never existed as described. There were many "Jesuses" and
              stuff going on. The Jesus stuff really got going hundreds of
              years after the supposed events. It's stupid to state "facts"
              about Jesus because it's based on the gospels which are mostly
              invented or derived from other events and religions.
        \_ think about it.  There were seperatists to an imperial controller.
           Iesus preaches "no, do not hate, be peaceful."  MLK said the same
           thing and gets accused to corroboration with the Man.  Watch Life
           of Brian, it will get you a better perspective.  The Middle East
           has been fucked forever; it really needs a tac nuke.
           \_ ...tactical?
              \_  I think he meant strategic.
2004/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34440 Activity:nil
10/29   Does anyone think that there will be a clear winner the night
        of the election, (i.e. by midnight- west coast time)?
        \_ Zogby intimated as much on the Daily Show, and then pointed out that
           large numbers of people on both sides are prepared to reject an
           unclear winner.
                \_ Ok, follow up question: do you think if the post-election
                   situation resembles the last one where the supreme court
                   could intervene, do you think they will? Or have they
                   learned yet that they were hated?
        \_ With any luck.
        \_ No.  I think this election will be more murky than those in third-
           world countries.
2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34274 Activity:high
10/21   E.L. Doctorow, author, on The Unfeeling President:
        \_  http://www.lyricmania.com/l24994
2004/10/18-19 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34208 Activity:nil
10/18   world'so smallest political quiz:
        \_ It says I'm a libertarian, but that's bullshit.  The whole point
           of this test is to convince people who agree with libertarians
           on certain issues that they are in fact libertarian.
           \_ God forbid!  P.S.  The test is lame. -- ilyas
        \_ hey look I'm NOT a Liberal afterall! I'm a Centrist. You guys?
        \_ I'm a liberal.  No surprise there. -liberal
           \_ Same here.
2004/10/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:34198 Activity:nil
10/18   Alameda County still needs pollworkers!  Please sign up!
        \_ Yeah right for a mandatory 6:30am to 9pm shift.
           \_ If you signed up for it, is it really mandatory?
2004/10/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:34142 Activity:nil
10/13   Republican donation site accepts $25, 50, 75, 100, and others
        but you can make a recurring donation every month. The min
        amount is $1.00. Democrat donation site accepts $25, 50, 100,
        250, 500, 1000, 2500, and others. No recurring donation but
        the min amount is $10. Comments?
2004/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33998 Activity:very high
10/8    Here is a cool idea. What if some guy, say, Soros' assistant
        opens up a new company that asks for GOP campaign donations.
        He outsources that to Indians, and when the Indians ask
        for money, their accents and their where-abouts (India) will
        either disgust Republicans so much that they'll switch party,
        or, they'll donate money which could be used by the Democrats.
        \_ The Republicans beat them to it.
        \_ It's called fraud.
        \_ Why would I switch to democrat b/c an Indian answered
           the phone?
           \_ Because all Republicans are racists.
2004/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33951 Activity:kinda low
10/4    I'd like to spam my democratic friends with republican
        campaign emails so that they'd get pissed and donate to
        the democrats. What's the best way to do this?
        \_ Attn: motd gun nuts:  I'd like to shoot the op.  What gun would
           give me the greatest chance of doing this and not getting caught?
           \_ A fictional one, you jackass.
2004/10/6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33946 Activity:very high
10/4    Ever wonder why ilyas posts have diminished in the past few
        days? It's because ilyas now posts as Mr. liberal.  !liberal
        \_ Posting to the motd is a great way to avoid becoming "Dr. liberal."
        \_ Actually it's because school started. -- ilyas
        \_ He must be schizophrenic, because I post as "-liberal" but he
           always argues with me.
        \_ He must be schizophrenic, because he always argues with "-liberal"
           (which I actually sign with)
           \_ Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are not the
              same disorder. -- ilyas
              \_ Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are the
                 same disorder. -- ilyas
2004/10/5 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33934 Activity:high
10/4    bipartisan name calling contest. I'll start:
        Republican: red-neck, suv lovers, blue-blooded deficit-spending elites
        \_ motherfucker (implied by red-neck)
           \_ spend and spend, free-labor conservative
        Democrat: hippy, tree-hugger, tax-and-spend liberal, baby killer,
                  limousine liberal
        \_ Aren't more "blue-bloods" Democrat these days?
           \_ No.  They're actually pretty evenly split.  The nouveau-riche,
              however, are almost exclusively Repubs, Soros gleefully excepted.
              \_ We don't know where he gets his money, whether it's from drugs
                 or what.
        \_ you're a right wing nut job!
           \_ you're a liberal weiner!
2004/10/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33933 Activity:high
10/5    Mexico refuses to treat american citizen without medical insurancew
        \_ America refuses to treat american citizen without medical insurance
           \_ Not true.  By Federal law emergency rooms can not refuse
              patients.  Duh.
              \_ Oh, it's illegal? Then I'm sure compliance is perfect
                 and they adhere to the spirit of the law. Pah. Talk
                 to anyone who works in an ER sometime.
                 \_ So emergency rooms are breaking Fed law and denying
                    patients service?  I have never seen reports of this,
                    \_ You don't need facts to spew on the motd.  Let him be.
              \_ Emergency rooms cannot refuse to treat emergencies. If it
                 is not an emergency, they just refer you to the county
                 hospital. -used to work in an ER
2004/9/28-29 [Politics/Domestic, Industry/Jobs] UID:33820 Activity:high
9/29    So last year I asked the motd for advice about writing a "self-
        evaluation" at the end of the year during review time. I was told
        to talk myself up as much as possible w/out going overboard. I took
        this advice and I believe it helped. But then after my review and
        compensation adjustments I was asked a question I wasn't prepared
        for so this year I'll ask the motd again...
        After receiving end-of-the-year compensation adjustments, what
        should one answer when manager asks "Is this what you expected? If
        not, more or less?" I can think of reasons for both yes/no and
        more/less answers. Any thoughts?
        \_ I would not answer such questions unless I were absolutely sure
           they were doing this seriously, for their employees, which is
           not possible, so never mind.  I would never answer that.
        \_ What you expected would seem to be less relevant than what you
           wanted. I would proceed assuming the "want" meaning. To answer
           that you need to figure out what you're worth independent of the
           manager's mind games. Not that I know anything really though.
           Oh and if it really does seem high, I don't really see a point
           in admitting that, what would your reason be? Brownie points?
           \_ i'd be happy to just have a job.  what's a raise?
        \_ my thinking is to use this to your advantage. if you're unhappy
           with the raise, say "it's too low." it's a great opportunity to
           do so, and your manager might expect you to say it so you won't
           be making people uncomfortable. If you're happy with it, provide
           no information. Say something uninformative like "it will do" with
           a poker face. That way, the manager only gets information if it
           benefits you.
        \_ I'm the one who told you to talk yourself up without being a nut
           about it.  In response to all stupid manage head game questions
           like this you should reply like a politician, not an engineer.
           When asked a direct question, most engineers will try to answer
           it truthfully and directly.  BZZZT!  This is the worst thing you
           can do with head game questions.  I was asked the same thing when
           I got my bonus & raise this spring.  The raise was pathetic.  The
           bonus was better but nothing special as bonuses go.  My response
           was along the lines of "Well, everyone would agree that more is
           always better than less, and this was certainly better than nothing.
           how much is left in the budget for further adjustments at this
           point?".  So I answered without answering and then turned it around
           back on them with a question which made it clear I wanted more and
           I know they have more money in the budget for it (they can always
           get more money if they really want/need it), yet I wasn't an
           aggressive greedy overly demanding asshat about it.  Of course they
           didn't actually come up with anything extra but I didn't expect
           them to.  The point was to answer the question in such a way as to
           not come off as a total asshole but making it clear they didn't
           just buy my undying loyalty forever either.  Remember, talks with
           your manager are not engineering problems to be solved.  This is
           them testing you to see how far they can abuse you without making
           you quit or stop working as hard.  Good luck next year and let us
           know how it goes.
        \_ well its the end of our year right now... my review is tomorrow
           so you all will find out soon enough. I'm taking all above advice
           into consideration. thanks. -op
2004/9/27 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:33772 Activity:moderate
9/27    Just an epiphany that among my warmest feelings towards the US was
        while in Africa seeing France's legacy as an imperial power. For all
        the evil the southern American states have endured by way of the US, by
        comparison to the French in Africa, they are doing relatively well. Of
        course, American imperialism in places like Colombia vs. French
        imperialism in, say, Mali, is only one component of much larger story
        in either place. My Jack Handy for the day. -- ulysses
        \_ Our meddling in Central and South America doesn't hold a candle to
           full-on colonialism such as the French in Africa.  A better
           comparison would be what happened to the native Hawaiians.
           \_ Good point. -- ulysses
        \_ By southern American, do you mean Georgia? They still curse
           Sherman's name in Atlanta.
        \_ Are you going to make me bring up our bloody counterrebellion
           in the Phillippines?
           \_ I wasn't going to even ask but the thought of making you do it
              is too much to resist. Cuteness aside I had thought of the
              Phillipines when the poster abv mentioned Hawaii. Keep in mind
              that there are a number of islands off the coast of
              Africa where every last original inhabitant was killed by Spanish
              or French sailors/soldiers/merchants. This may all be academic,
              \_ How many Native American tribes were wiped out to the last man?
                 \_ We're still trying to figure out how many Native Americans
                    there were pre-Columbus to begin with.  Estimates range
2004/9/26 [Politics/Domestic, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33765 Activity:nil
9/26    Republican National Convention sends out Soda motd style argument
        in mailer:
2004/9/23 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic] UID:33711 Activity:moderate
9/22    How do you refer to a person from the Virgin Islands?
        Islander-American? American? Thanks...
        \_ A subject
        \_ Virgin Islander (geographically), or American, Dane or
           Englishman (politically)  -Great MOTD Swami
        \_ A virgin.
2004/9/18-19 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33618 Activity:kinda low
9/18    Has there ever been an Asian who was crowned Miss America?
        \_ 2001 Miss Hawaii was the first Asian-American Miss America.
           She's of Filipino ancestry.
           \_ Dont forget Miss Teen USA was once Kelly Hu
2004/9/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33539 Activity:high
        Ebay: http://csua.org/u/91n

9/pi    Election
        \_ huh. and i thought that collecting old, crappy, typewriters
           was a useless hobby.  I'll notify my brother in law at once.
        \_ Mechanical typewrites are good for filling out forms.

9/pi    Election
        \_ Uh oh.  If trolls are on transendental numbers and other posts
           are on integers, we're doomed, since transcendental numbers
           are uncountable.
           \_ Example of transendental number please?
2004/9/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33536 Activity:nil 66%like:34568
9/pi    Election
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic] UID:33443 Activity:high
9/9     Islamic militants attack Austrailian Embassy in Indonesia.
        As usual, they kill a whole lot of innocent civilians, and not
        one Australian.
        \_ It is erroneous to write "as usual ... and not one Australian".
           cf. Bali bombing.  "oooohhh ....!"
2004/9/8 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33416 Activity:nil
9/7     So is the Democrat version of "why do you hate America":
        "How dare you question my patriotism!" ?
        \_ no
        \_ "Which would you rather burn, the Constitution or the flag?"
        \_ "The UN will save us!"
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33392 Activity:high
9/7     <DEAD>www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=9969&c=50<DEAD>
        Flag burning amendment to be called for vote.
        \_ When will they ratify the constitution-as-toilet-paper amendment?
        \_ interesting. How about a billboard that shows flag burning?
           Or a screen saver? Or just talking about it? How about theatrical
           play that simulates the burning of the flag?
           \_ It will probably say something like "Physical destruction or
              desecration of the flag is prohibited".  But if that's the case,
              what if someone made a flag from 2 halves, but didn't sow them
              together ad then burned the pieces next to each other?
              What about destroying an old 48-star flag?  Is it really the US
              flag anymore?
           \_ In Germany just about any such hypothetical scenario involving
              the swastica involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              the swastika involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              WWII strategy game called Hearts of Iron and it had the Kaiser
              era flag for the German side, because the game company didn't
              feel like making a separate german version.  *sigh* -- ilyas
              \_ yeah, I don't really see any difference between a swastika
                 and a U.S. flag
                 \_ Well, as far as I am concerned there should not be any
                    restrictions on either.  German policy on the swastika
                    is like a little kid who closes his eyes and hopes the
                    bogey man will go away. -- ilyas
                    bogey man will go away.  Actually, a point is worth
                    emphasizing here -- the Constitution prohibits the US
                    government from drawing ideological distinctions as far
                    as free speech is concerned.  That's a Very Good Thing (tm).
                      -- ilyas
        \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ Which would you prefer, burn the flag or burn the Constitution?
                \_ Lets do both at the same time!
        \_ Hasn't this idiotic flag-burning amendment been introduced into every
           session of Congress for the last 25 years or something?  There must
           be some districts in which introducing this bill is a requirement
           for holding office.  The chances of this actually passing are nil.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33291 Activity:kinda low
9/2     State Constitution provisions on gun rights at the time
        of the founders.
        \_ This guy rocks, btw. -- ilyas
        \_ A fascinating article: points out the individual nature of the
           right to bear arms but also points out that this doesn't specify
           the scope of that right.  Well-balanced, and purposefully
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33242 Activity:kinda low
8/30    All right, this URL convinces me that a decision by Republican mayor
        Bloomberg to refuse a permit for a Central Park demonstration can
        be reasonably argued to not have anything to do with toeing the
        party line: -liberal
        \_ yes. also this article written by Henry Stern (former NYC parks
        \_ Hm, am slightly more convinced.  OTOH, he expects 50,000 New Yorkers
           to enjoy the place on a given afternoon, but he's not worried about
           them destroying the green?  I think we need a usability assessment.
2004/8/30 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33225 Activity:very high
8/30    So do the protests in New York prove that Aschroft is preventing our
        exercise of free speech?
        \_ No, it proves that Americans aren't that willing to give up our
           rights just because some demagogue tries to. AFAIK, all these
           protests are illegal (without a permit).
           protests are illegal (held without a permit).
           \_ I find the very idea that you need a permit from the government
              in order to protest the government a farcical abuse of the
              \_ where does it say it is ok for 100,000 people to show up and
                 stomp $8 million worth of grass and yell a lot?
                 \_ 100,000 people can show up because we have freedom of
                    assembly.  They can yell a lot because they have freedom of
                    speach.  And they can walk on the grass normally because
                    the city has to pay to maintain its parks.
                    \_ does "normal wear and tear" include willful destruction
                       of public property?  Just because one does not go out
                       saying "I'm going to destroy the grass" doesn't make it
                       "not willful"
                       \_ You're wrong.  Read up on 'intent'.  -POC
                          \_ Once you've been informed that your actions will
                             lead to some form of destruction and you proceed,
                             you have intent.
                             \_ Sophistry, my friend.  You're mixing up the
                                notion of personal accountability in an
                                inappropriate context.  It's not the indiviuals
                                that can be held accountable unless they're
                                actually breaking the law; walking in the park
                                isn't illegal.
                                \_ 2 people stomping in the park having
                                   been informed in advance they're going to do
                                   $1.60 in damage is not merely walking in the
                                   park.  So if the individuals are not
                                   accountable for the damage, then who is?
                                   Just have the tax payers of NYC cover it?
                                   \_ The damages belong to the people!
                                        -- socialist
                                   \_ Someone needs to figure out where
                                      "$8m in damage" came from.
                       \_ Really?  How do you figure?  "Willful" usually
                          \_ See above.  It's willful once you're no longer
                             ignorant of the consequences of your actions and
                             proceed to commit a destructive act anyway, even
                             if the destruction was not your primary motivation
                             for the act which caused the destruction of public
                          implies intent.
                       \_ Actually, that's what willful means.  It's when you
                          want to destroy something, and then you destroy it.
                       \_ Reread that tortured triple negative again.
                       \_ Does... not... parse... head... exploding...
                          \_ Don't not leave the motd unread because your head
                             might not un-implode.
                 \_ Wow you mean my free speech rights are worth only $80?
                    Although you have nothing worthwhile to say, some of us
                    think free speech is worth more than that.
                    \_ Free speech does not include the right to destroy the
                       park.  Were all 100,000 coughing up $80 each to repair
                       the park afterwards?  The city has an obligation to not
                       waste citizen dollars on stupid shit.  There are plenty
                       of places to running around stupid without causing $8m
                       in damages.
                       \_ Someone needs to figure out where "$8m in damages"
                          came from.
                 \_ First Amendment.
                    \_ As if there are no limits to the 1st amendment?  The
                       Supreme Court has already ruled there are.  It is not
                       carte blanche to be an idiot.
                       \_ "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the
                          freedom of speech, [...] or the right of the people
                          peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
                          government for a redress of grievances."
                          The people were attempting to exercise our
                          Constitutionally protected rights on public
                          property in a peaceful way. This is just another
                          example of the idiots in charge taking away more
                          of our rights. Worse, is people like you
                          apologizing for them.
                          \_ "peaceably to assemble".  Last I checked it didn't
                             cost the city $8m for a peaceful assembly.  There
                             are plenty of other places.  No one said they
                             can't gather.  Just not that many in that one
                             spot at that one time.  No one said they can't
                             block the fucking streets for hours at a time.
                             Just stay off the grass.  What's so hard to
                             understand about that?
                             \_ you're being obtuse; if they showed up in
                                the financial district and blocked roads,
                                they'd get their heads busted in.
                             \_ You are trying to claim that walking in the
                                park is a violent activity??? You have
                                totally gone around the bend.
                             \_ Someone needs to figure out where "$8m for
                                a peaceful assembly" came from (I assume this
                                is "$8m" more than the site that was settled
                 \_ You all may wish to read up on the legal concept of "prior
              \_ You don't need a permit to protest.  You *do* need a permit to
                 march down the middle of the street and not get arrested.
                 \_ What about the permit to protest in Central Park?
                    The grass has a right to life, too.
              \_ Denying permits without just cause is abuse.
                 Permits are so police can block off traffic and have enough
                 people there in case people start trashing the city.
                 Are you a dumb liberal or a trolling freeper? -liberal
        \_ "AFAIK, all these protests are illegal (held without a permit)".
           Haven't you read the articles where they are arguing about using
           Central Park, and the protestors finally switched to some other
           place that was approved, and with an approved route?
        \_ The bottom line is, the mayor of NYC is refusing the Central Park
           permit because he is a Republican and a team-player.
           \_ take a look at a map of manhattan.  if the only goal was to
              protect delegates from protesters, central park would be a
              much better place to have them than snaking around through
              midtown.  If they were in central park, they could be ignored.
              I think it really is about destroying the park.
              \_ Denying them the park denies them the chance to show the media
                 a massive peaceful protest.  By forcing them into the streets
                 you make the protest look smaller and increase the chance
                 that it turns violent, which would help the Republicans
                 \_ No, by jamming them into a park you hide them.  By bringing
                    all life to a complete halt for the duration of the event,
                    you are showing the media your power.  Why must the
                    opposition explain this to you?  --conservative
              \_ Take a second look.  Is what I wrote the bottom line or not?
                 Do you think the Republicans would try to hold the GOP
                 Convention in NYC if the mayor were a Democrat?
                 \_ of course not, and yes, I think Bloomberg is probably
                    playing ball with the GOP on managing protesters overall.
                    Still, having a protest in central park seems kind of
                    pointless and expensive to me.  Why not just rent out a
                    stadium and call the news media?  I think that in this
                    case, Bloomberg is probably more concerned with the rich
                    people who live on central park west than with the GOP.
                    My millionaire great aunt who lived on central park west
                    was a Trotskyist, but she'd be super-pissed if the park
                    got trashed.
                    \_ Renting out a stadium is expensive too.  Central park is
                       the premier public forum in the city.
                       \_ Take over the streets, fool!  WTF?  When did the left
                          forget how to do a real protest?  --conservative
2004/8/28-30 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Politics/Domestic] UID:33201 Activity:very high
8/28    RIP, Laura Branigan.
        \ Ever see "Self-Control" Music video. William Fredkin directed it.
          \_ I got it off the net.  Wasn't it banned by MTV at the
             time?  It's a little dated now, but still wonderful.
             \_ Please copy it to /csua/tmp/. I'd like to see it.
                \_ Done.
                   \_ having trouble playing the file... with rp8/linux
                      "General error" -- with mplayer, segfaults.
                      \_ plays fine on Windows.  Try the site directly:
                         \_ They're down for the count.
                            \_ I got an mpeg version off a file sharing
                               network a while back.  It's out there.
                   \_ Thanks.
        \_ Now, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. Several years
           back, I somehow got to thinking about that song Self Control and
           sought out a used copy from the $2.00 bargain bin at Amoeba.
           I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but other than the
           title track, the album is unfortunately a turkey. Oh well.
           \_ Absolutely, but Self Control is still one of the best cover
              songs ever, so I guess that's worth the price of admission.
2004/8/23 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia] UID:33083 Activity:high
8/23    Can we discuss Olympics instead of American politics?  American
        politics is so boring.
        \_ we japanese so superior tos us slavery breed hip hop track
           field star!  Go china
        \_ we koreans got cheated!  You americans and the judges robbed us
                \_ China beat korea PKR ping-pong!  Take that, jap stooges
           \_ This is just payback for Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul in '88
           \_ I think we should return to the original rules of the ancient
              Greek olympics, where the judges were allowed to enter the
              \_ So can the wrestlers eye-gouge?
                 \_ Of course.  And I think the routine animal sacrifices should
                    make a comeback as well.
              \_ Will nudity be optional of mandatory?
                 \_ Mandatory of course.  We must be fair.  But I think we
                    should allow women to compete.
              \_ Man, guys with short pensises would certainly have the
                 advantage there.
                 \_ You see!  Further proof of superior japanese race!
                    \_ That and h@t 4s1aN Ch1x@r!!!1!1!1@!
        \_ Who's the name of the shooting guy who lost the gold medal because
           he fired his last shot at someone else's target by mistake?
           \_ lucky he wasn't fighting in Iraq.  Otherwise it's another
              casualty by friendly fire.
2004/8/20-21 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:33049 Activity:nil
8/20    Shit.  This is exactly what precipitated Chicago '68.  Now all we
        need is a few overzealous cops and a few overzealous protesters:
        http://csua.org/u/8p0 (yahoo! news link)
2004/8/19 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:33011 Activity:very high
8/19    Can't explain...just read...too funny to explain adequately.
        http://csua.org/u/8ny (yahoo! news)
        \_ The written article is fine, but I demand more from the
           \_ How about "videojournalist"?
              http://www.fittits.com/mary-carey/gal1.html - gal3.html
        \_ yermom wears army boots
        \_ yermom wears army boobs
        \_ This is the third time, recently, i've heard of people complaining
          about this.  And it is such a non-issue.  Army surgeons get almost
          no training in plastic surgery during peace time and there is a huge
          demand for it during war.  Therefor the army makes plactic surgery
          a covered benefit.  the cost of the silicon is damn trivial compared
          to the cost of the Surgeons and Hospital staff that are already there
          \_ And for the implants you have to pay for the parts yourself.
             \_ But the Big Evil Government is taking your money AT GUNPOINT
                to pay to give criminals like Pvt England bigger boots!!
                \_ YOUR BOOBS ARE SO BIG AND TAX FREE!
        \_ Stuff like this is why I love to read the motd.
2004/8/15-16 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32915 Activity:high
8/15    So how long until we see the Puerto Rican Basketball Association?
        \_ Is it me or isn't Puerto Rico a part of the U.S.? Why do they
           have their own Olympic team? And how the hell does the US
           team lose to a small island?
           \_ The US players are suffering through withdrawal
           \_ Hong Kong has its own Olympic team also.
        \_ we should start bombing puerto rico.
           \_ But we only just stopped last year. Do you mean "resume bombing"
              PR? -- ulysses
           \_ More American: Fully incorporate Puerto Rico so we can
              get their best athletes
              \_ so that I got more of my tax dollar and s.s. robbed?  No way!
                 If they have any good athelete we can hire them individually.
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32840 Activity:nil
8/11    Yahoo! News - Cow Udder Doping Scandal Hits Australia
        Looks like cow beauty contests have stricter standards than human ones.
        \_ Why?  Is udder tampering allowed in Miss America?
           \_ I don't see someone being banned for using saline or silicone.
2004/8/9 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32785 Activity:high
8/9     In my opinion, the President retains the final authority, and ultimate
        responsibility, of taking the country to war.  Congress is just there
        to provide him the money, and legal authorization in case he wants to.
        (Let's exclude the short < 90-day engagements the President can
        send off without authorization.)
        On the opposing side, one can say that Congress shares significant
        responsibility for authorizing a war.
        What do you think?
        \_ Your opinion is stupid. Apparently you were napping in US Gov't
           101. It's called "checks and balances." Perhaps you should readup
           on the Federalist Papers.
           \_ 50 years ago you might have been right.  The War Powers Act
              has allowed Congress to adbicate its obligation to declare
              war.  They've kept their funding authorization responsibility,
              but there are no watchdogs left on the matter..
              \_ A) The War Powers Act (enacted in 1973, so you're confused)
                 sought to limit the Executive branch from so-called "police"
                 actions such as Vietnam and Korea.
                 B) The War Powers Act was an attempt to clearly dilineate
                    what the Executive could or could not do in times of
                    crisis in committing US Military (either abroad or
                 C) The War Powers Act puts a specific time limit of 60 days
                    which can only be extended by Congress on any military
                 D) It requires the executive to report to Congress any
                    military action taken by US Forces.
                 Before you go off spouting nonsense again, try to actually
                 read the War Powers Act.
           \_ What's the right answer?
              \_ The right answer is that there is no "right answer"
                 because the dynamic between the executive and the
                 legislative is constantly changing. Also, the executive
                 and the legislative are obviously incestious, so the only
                 "real" right answer is that responsibility falls upon
                 government. Since we are supposed to be a representative
                 government the ultimate responsibility falls upon the
                 people as a whole. Obviously reality is a bit more complex
                 than this.
        \_ I think yer contradicting yourself. And yer dumb.
        \_ War Powers Act
           \_ I can spend the 15 minutes to google for stuff I thought I knew
              in high school and college -- can you summarize your
              interpretation anyway?  Thanks.
        \_ Opinion?  It's simple law you can find a copy of on the net.  Your
           opinion, nor anyone else's here, has anything to do with it.  In
           my opinion the penalty for shooting stupid people should be a free
           dinner at a nice restaurant.  The law says I go to jail for a long
           time.  I prefer my opinion but we follow the law.
           \_ Can you summarize your interpretation of the law for me?  Thanks.
              \_ My summary: I'm not on the United States Supreme Court, so my
                 interpretation is academic at best.  Why do you care about
                 my or any layman's useless interpretation or opinion?
                 \_ You seemed to have a good grasp of what the law meant
                    ("It's [a] simple law ...").  Then you implied that you
                    needed to be on the Supreme Court to understand it ("I'm
                    not on the United States Supreme Court ...")
                    It sounds like you're flip-flopping to me.
2004/8/9 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32780 Activity:high
8/9     Any one used http://buy.com's budget shipping? how long does it take
        to ship the item? It's about 10 days and it still says "Sent to
        Warehouse"... Damn them. no phone number either.
        \_ they are usually pretty fast, except for once when I ordered
           a barbeque tool set for $12, and they ran out of stock.  I
           decided not to cancel the order, and they finally shipped
           it to me after about 2 months.
           \_ Pricegrabber confirmed they are bad at updating the actual
              order status. Next time I'll order from http://Amazon.com
        \_ I've had them send me a $20 tripod after about 6 weeks and
           another time they simply cancelled my order for an N64 game
           after about 6 weeks.
           \_ I finally got a phone # and called them. They said the
              manufacturer has a delay in the order. Do they ship the item
              to me or the manufacturer ships the item to me?
2004/8/6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32745 Activity:high
8/6     Regarding the Mailer interview: below: who is he?  I don't want any
        trolling, but what is the gut association that your average educated
        American has with the man?
        J. Edgar Hoover : Cross Dressing
        Joe McCarthy : HUAC / Communist Witch Hunt
        :: Norman Mailer : __________________
        Liberal and conservative reactions, please.
        \_ he dated Marilyn Monroe for a while, right? That's about all I know
           about him. Oh yeah, and he wrote some plays too?
           \_ Is this a troll or are you actually this illiterate?
              \_ WTF should I care about some Dead White Guy
                 \_ Best laugh I've had all day.
        \_ He's a writer/novelist. Wrote _The Naked and the Dead_
           stabbed his wife (in a drunken state -- he didn't kill her),
           won a Pulitzer Prize for _Armies of the Night_. Also a boxing
           fan. He got into a fight with Gore Vidal at a party once and,
           of course, knocked Vidal down, to which Vidal responded,
           "I see words fail you once again, Norman".
           \_ This is exactly the stuff I'm looking for.  Thx. -op
        \_ Who is Normal Mailer and why should I care?
        \_ McCarthy was in the senate and hence not part of HUAC.
           \_ He held his own hearings in the Senate based on HUAC's precedent.
           \_ It's how he feels, not what he thinks.
              \_ I doubt "he" feels anything about HUAC or would even recognize
                 the acronymn.
                 \_ Since he used it, he probably feels something about it and
                    likely knows what it means.
                    \_ Thank you, yes I do know a bit about HUAC and I'm looking
                       for impressions of how Mailer fit into the zeitgeist of
                       the middle 20th C.
2004/7/25-26 [Finance/CC, Consumer/CellPhone, Politics/Domestic] UID:32474 Activity:very high
7/25    I've been on the National DoNotCall Registry for over a
        year.  I get a telemarketing call from T-Mobile, which I
        have no relation with.  As I understand it, they could be
        fined $11,000 for that call.  So why would they be calling
        me?  What are they thinking?  Presumably, I'm not the only
        one on the donotcall list that they are calling and there
        will be numerous complaints.
        \_ Because they bought your phone number from someone like a
           credit card company who sold them your name and number as
           a "bussiness contact" that you missed the little check box
           to check to opt out of.
          \_ Supposing that's the case, how would I determine which
             credit card it is?  In any case, I don't think this is the
             case, because the woman who called didn't even know who she
             was calling for.  She only knew the number she was calling.
             \_ I have tried to track the down my contact info several times
                and gave up because most telemarketers either don't keep
                that information or are not willing to give it to you.
                I assume, this is because there are no laws that require
                them to disclose this information. Maybe it is time to start
                writing letters to your representatives about it. BTW, once
                I have added myself to the do not call registry, I have stopped
                being harassed by phone, but there still lots spam coming by
                snail mail.
                \_ Pansy liberal, always trying to get big government involved
                   in your problems.
             \_ The woman who called you is some minimum wage slave who
                knows nothing, and if she did know anything is probably
                under orders to be as unhelpful as possible when it comes
                to finding this shit out.   Good luck figuring it out.  I
                bet it you wrote a threatening letter to the right people
                you'd get an answer, the trick is figuring out who the
                right people are.
        \_ Somewhere in here there must be room to say the do-not-call
           list has something to do with the US being a totalitarian state.
           I can't figure out how but I know it can be done.
        \_ Go to the donotcall web page and file a report. I don't think
           they'll go after individual violations, but rather they will go
           after a company that gets enough complaints against.
                \_ Yeah, I already filed a complaint with them before I
                   even posted anything on here.  -op
2004/7/6-7 [Politics/Domestic] UID:31193 Activity:nil
7/6     Anyone have any ideas why there is a note from the White House in the
        office?  It is addressed to Philip Nunez (not Phillip) and begins, "We
        join your friends and family in congratulating you on reaching this
        important milestone in your life."  How did such a note come to be
        \_ HAHAHA... someone must have sent in the "I'm 100, I want a note from
           the President" thing.
2004/7/2 [Consumer/Camera, Politics/Domestic] UID:31131 Activity:very high
7/2     Is it now illegal to take a picture or video of buildings that
        are major landmarks or contain government offices?  Please no trolls.
        \_ It is suspicious, especially if you are brown-skinned.  You don't
           need to break to law to be arrested and detained indefinitely.
           \_ Don't spread FUD. The USSC has actually recently ruled that
              as long as you are an American citizen, you do, in fact need
              to be charged and due process must be followed.
              \_ I am not worried so much about high consitutional principles
                 as the potential of getting arrested and/or put in solitary
                 confinement for any period of time just dong what tourists
                 always do.
                 \_ Yeah because "they" are out there in black helicopters
                    picking up every tourist with a camera.
              \_ They can still call you an enemy combatant or a "person of
                 interest" and hold you indefinitely.  You *do* have the right
                 to challenge your confinement (habeas corpus), but that might
                 be cold comfort after spending 3 months in solitary
                 \_ Not if you are a US Citizen on US territory. That was
                    what the Padilla case was about. If you are talking about
                    foriegners on US soil, you are correct.
2004/6/26 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31017 Activity:high
6/26    Well, here is one person who thinks Michael Moore hates America, and
        provides evidence to back it up:
        \_ I have been told by conservatives that NYT is biased and op-ed
           cannot be trusted.
        \_ http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com
        \_ so, anyone who don't like Bush hates America?  This is good shit.
           It is the American version of what used to called "counter-
        \_ Criticism is not hatred.  People here are, on balance, under/un-
           educated.  We have a long track history of supporting despots and
           utilizing third world labor at very low wages.  We use our military
           to protect our corporate interests around the world.  Moore believes
           these aspects are wrong, and speaks against them.  You can argue
           whether these aspects of our relationship with the world and among
           ourselves make us stronger or not, but to say Moore "hates America"
           because of these statements is a straw man. -scotsman
           \_ If you ask any of these 'low wage' workers they will beg to be
              'exploited' in order to earn a wage and feed their family.
              The notion that third world societies can instantly propel
              themselves to a first world standard of living only if they
              were paid more is silly.  ALL capitalist Western economies
              progressed through requisite stages where workers endured
              hardship.  As long as the fruits of their labor are reinvested
              in their economies, as they are where most US corporations
              operate, and their societies nuture the political and economic
              policies that promote growth (not socialism), they win.  But
              somehow I suspect you'd prefer a proletariat revolution.
              With respect to supporting despots, this was an expediency of
              the Cold War, which history unequivocally vindicates.  One
              only need compare S. to N. Korea and Chile to Cuba.
              \_ Tell that to the families of 20,000 desaparecidos in Chile.
                 This is exactly the point.  Your whole argument is based
                 upon the necessity of our (US) supremacy.  Globalism based
                 on first world first is akin to regressive tax structure.
                 In the long run it's merely imperial, untenable.  People
                 won't stand for it.
                 Also, I'm not suggesting that higher wages will fix the 3rd
                 world's problems.  But rather than trying to control all the
                 resources from the raw material to the consumer, we could
                 work to foster entrepreneurship in these countries and have
                 an actual global market place with true local ownership.
                 Our country was granted a shortcut by history with the seeds
                 of our industry being sown under imperial rule.  Fortunately
                 for us, England didn't have the war tech of a superpower.  We
                 were able to buck them off, and now reap the benefits.  This
                 new global economy is basically of the same imperial character
                 but with a seemingly insurmountable military force to back it
                 Final point, no I don't prefer a proletariat revolution,
                 though I'm terrified that one could come in my lifetime.
                 I'd prefer that we learn from history and tread lightly in
                 the imperial snake pit. --scotsman
                 --Final final point.  I really don't know where you pulled
                 the assertion that I was championing socialism from.  You
                 need to watch the knee jerking if you want to have a decent
              \_ In response to the expidiency of supporting despots, you
                 should also think about the failures: the Shah in Iran
                 (we installed him and overthrew a democratically elected
                 prime minister leading to the current theocracy), Saddam in
                 Iraq, and others.
2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30978 Activity:nil
6/23    [ Deleted. Loser Republicans keep modifying other people's posts ]
        \_ MOTD Republicans tend to be very childish, and lack sense of
2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30866 Activity:very high
6/17    What's up with William Hung? He sings like a retard, he looks
        like a retard, yet every now and then there's news coverage of
        him. Have we really sunk this low?
        \_ It's like the South Park where Timmy joins a rock band.
        \_ White folk like watching buck-toothed, effeminate,
           model-minority Asian men making comic asses of themselves.
           Hung's recording contract is a slap in the face of each
           and every genuinely talented Filipino American or Asian
           American pop music artist who can't get a contract b/c
           s/he isn't black, white, or JLo. -elizp
           \_ This reminds me of the time I was on campus right after Brandon
              Lee got killed in a set accident and these two Asian guys
              walking behind me were echoing each other, each assuring the
              other of the White Man's Conspiracy to demasculinise the Asian
              Male.  They were certain that both Bruce and his son were
              murdered by the White Man as part of this huge conspiracy to
              keep the Asian Man down and in 'his place'.  Get over it.  There
              are plenty of people of other races who are talented and unknown.
              There are plenty of whites, black, and hot brown women with
              great asses that can't get contracts.  It is as much about luck
              as anything else.
           \_ This is a nice theory. Check William Hung's fan pages, though
              and you will find the truth is not so simple. There are
              mostly white people but good representation from other ethnic
              categories as well. I, too, am curious why his fifteen minutes
              have run so long.
           \_ riiiight.  so jlo and the other fucking RIAA-sponsored
              pre fab corporate clowns like the Spice Girls are all about
              talent, huh?  the whole system is rotten.  why point to the
              lack of untalented corporate whore asians in particular when
              all the system turns out is crap anyway?
              \_ I agree -- big labels suck, and indie labels start sucking
                 once they discover they have to act like big-time
                 labels/distributors to break even. -elizp
                 \_ fine. so we agree. then what's the point of complaigning
                    about the evil labels' attitude towards Asian talent,
                    when they show complete contempt for the very concept
                    of talent?  it's like complaigning that your local mob
                    boss isn't an equal opportunity employer.
           \_ You're my hero. Pinoy pride! --jsjacob
           \_ Yeah, it is so mean of those recording companies only giving
              recording contracts to the people who are most likely to have
              a large record buying audience.  Pinoy power!
           \_ He's a buffoon.  Americans like watching buffoons, especially
              the ones who think they're really stars.  It's a character
              defect, yes, but this is not a symptom of anti-Asian sentiment.
              The absolute lack of any major Asian-American pop stars is
              the symptom you're looking for, and yes, it's a crime.
              \_ There are some like James Iha. The industry doesn't care
                 what color you are if: 1) You are talented or 2) You can
                 sell records. Yes, the former will still get you a record
                 deal, although not on a pop label with pop exposure.
           \_ Good response. Haven't thought about it that way, thank you.
           \_ Hey, look, is it white people's fault that there are no hip
              Asian dudes?
              Asian dudes?  The most we can come up with is some nerds-gone-bad
              story (Better Luck Tomorrow), and that just does not qualify.
              \_ Dumbshit, didn't you go to Berkeley?  *EVERYTHING* is white
                 people's fault.
2004/6/15-16 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30823 Activity:insanely high
6/15    Diplomats / Senior military officers calls for a New Administration.
        \_ Why do diplomats / senior military official hate America?
        \_ NPR?  You might as well post from the http://democraticunderground.com or
           the freepers.  No one is going to eat this bait.
           \_ NPR != KPFA.  NPR keeps getting pegged as some sort of leftist
              think-tank, but they do a damned good job of keeping the bias
              to a minimum on both sides.
              \_ Said the far-left liberal.
                 \_ Sorry, you want my cousin, Lefty McLeft.  I'm a moderate.
                    \_ Really?  Ever voted for anyone who wasn't a Democrat?
                    \_ Certainly not your brother, Tighty Righty
                       \_ Anything you and my brother do in the privacy of
                          your own home is your business.
              \_ I find it really weird how all my ultra lefty friends who
                 think the Chronicle is part of the VRWC all listen religiously
                 to NPR as the source of all truth.  It must be their lack of
                 bias matching NPRs lack of bias I guess.
                 \_ I think I'm what you might call a far-left liberal, and I
                    think NPR is horribly biassed shit, mixed in with awful
        \_ national palestinian radio
2004/6/14 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30790 Activity:nil
6/14    ilyas, I hate my country, the US of A. It is filled with American
        hating citizens. It doesn't have a sense of unity. The blacks hate
        the whites and the Repubs hate the Dems and they can't agree on
        anything. So let me ask you this. What do you like about America
        and why did you emigrate from the great Mother Russia?
        \_ Probably there are less obvious ways to troll for Ilya responses.
2004/6/8 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30657 Activity:insanely high
6/8     Rectum post brought back from the dead:
        Afghan man commenting on being given a rectal exam in front of
        female American soldiers:
        "We don't know if it's medical or if they were very proud of
        themselves," Mr. Shah said. "But if it was medical, why were
        they taking our clothes off in front of the women? We are
        Afghans, not Americans."
        Where did he get the impression American men like to have
        their rectums examined in front of women?

        And our nyt journalists took the liberty to add this comment:
        "While nudity as a disciplinary or coercive tool may be
        especially objectionable to Muslims, they are hardly the only
        victims of the practice. Soldiers in Nazi Germany paraded
        naked prisoners in daylight, ..."
        \_ Nope, no media bias here, nope.  It is simply standard practice to
           compare anything that occurs during a Republican administration to
           Nazi Germany as often as possible.  See how you are?
           \_ what do you mean how am I?
           \_ huh?  I was myself pointing out the bias of the journalists above.
              however to generalize that to the whole media is like saying
              that your whole extended familiy are idiots simply because
              you are an idiot.
           \_ That's right, all conservatives are Nazis, and all liberals are
              pinko commies.  You'd think that we'd've come up with more hip
              epithets in fifty years.
        \_ Where do foreigners get their ideas of America? High quality pr0n!
           \_ This explains so much.
        \_ Depends on how hot they are...
        And our nyt journalists took the liberty to add this comment:
        "While nudity as a disciplinary or coercive tool may be
        especially objectionable to Muslims, they are hardly the only
        victims of the practice. Soldiers in Nazi Germany paraded
        naked prisoners in daylight, ..."
        \_ So americans are a good as the nazis. that's just great.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30564 Activity:high
6/3     http://www.gop.com/kerryopoly/default.asp
        Work safe, but not for the humor impaired leftists.  I'm told it plays
        music but I don't have speakers.
        \_ Wait, so rich is bad? Does that apply to rich Republicans, too?
           \_ Yes.  All rich white people are evil.  Rich non-white people are
        \_ Y'all wanna stop by http://www.factcheck.org y'hear?
           \_ Holy shit, something from the motd that looks like it might be
              somewhat almost unbiased.  I'll read the articles there and
              be back later.  Kerryopoly: do you think the numbers aren't
              true?  --op
              \_ The gas tax, for one, is complete bullshit, according to
                 \_ I note you only choose to read and repost the ones that
                    support your agenda but ignore when your guy is the liar.
                    \_ Note all you want, twat. The only thing I've posted is
                       the http://factcheck.org link.
                       \_ If you didn't post what I replied to then I wasn't
                          talking to you, was I?  You're not the center of the
                          universe.  Twat?  Childish.
2004/6/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30547 Activity:nil
6/1     young MOTDers (and all young Americans): I fear for you:
           and we won't need a draft because Kerry's plans for Iraq are just
           like Bush's except they require more troops.
           \_ How is the military going to deal with its manpower shortage?
              I think the draft is coming back no matter who is elected.
              The military is already drawing heavily into the Reserves
              and has even started tapping the IRR. Last time I checked
              there was still a Stop Loss order in effect. That is pretty
              much everything they can do short of a draft.
              \_ We can start by closing bases in former NATO ally countries.
                 Then we can get out of places like Kosovo/Bosnia/Former
                 Yugoslavia.  6-9 months later we can leave Iraq and then
                 \- there are only a few 1000 troops in bosnia. bush said to
                    the european coalition "we went in together and we'll
                    leave together". mr. resolve has already said the us
                    will be unilaterally pulling out. do you read any news
                    at all or does ti cut into your xbox/ps2 time? try leaving
                    the the news on instead of the p0rn channel in the
                    background. --psb
                    \_ nice personal attack after ignoring the parts of my
                       post that you couldn't refute.  way to go, genius!
                       how many #1 Fans do you have now?  you can't be psb.
                       he just isn't that stupid.
                       \-i lack the ability to explain "why isolantionism
                           is a not a simple choice for the us" in 100words
                           or less. however youir posited a number of facts
                           clearly suggesting you are unaware of the underlying
                           state of affairs which i did answer. yes i am
                           accusing you personally of ignorance. --psb
              \_ Everything?  Why not just pack up in places our troops are
                 doing nothing?  The Soviet Union is dead.  Let's stop
                 pretending we need NATO and NATO bases in Europe.  Why are you
                 so hellbent on expanding the size of the armed forces?  I'm
                 staunchly conservative and I'm honestly shocked that I'm the
                 only one on the heavily liberal motd that would mention this
                 obvious (to me, anyway) option.
                 \_ Yeah, I agree with you on the NATO bases issue. But the
                    real problem has to do with the fact that you don't want
                    to keep your troops "on station" in Iraq 100% of the
                    time. Especially with the increasingly professionalized
                    military, you need to pull these guys out and let them
                    have some rest. Right now about 50% of the combat troops
                    are in Iraq. Pulling the ones resting from Germany back
                    to the States is not going to change how much downtime
                    they need. It will save some money though.
        \_ The chances of getting drafted will be small. Do the math.
           The Army only needs, at most, a few hundred thousand troops.
           There are 20M Americans in the 18-23 cohort. So your chances
           of getting drafted couldn't be much more than 1%.
           \_ But those chances are not random: the military is very
              fond of those with computer skills.
              \_ Yeah, but getting drafted for computer skills is better than
                 being drafted to patrol the streets of Iraq.
              \_ But the draft starts with the youngest first, and it's a
                 proven fact that the motd is composed of old farts.
                 \_ Yet another discussion revolving around the time honored
                    geek motto: "If its not happening to me, fuck em."
                    \- the vietnam era draft was much more avoidable for
                       the upper middle class than the brad draft during ww2.
                       congressmen dont want their kids drafted so there will
                       be lots of loopholes if anything like the draft came
                       back ... which it wont. --psb
                       \- if you are interested in "american and the imperial
                          will" [my phrase] read Niall Ferguson's book
                          Colossus http://csua.org/u/7k6 --psb
2004/5/30-31 [Politics/Domestic, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:30497 Activity:very high
5/30    Is there some reason psb shouldn't win the election?
        \_ nil
        \_ Man, I ask about one of the most famous CSUA catch phrases, and
           the answer is nil.
           \_ It seemed self evident.  RIDE BIKE!
              \_ ED!  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!  CSUA President.
        \_ psb for president of the United States! psb #1 fan.
           \_ Too late for this round.
2004/5/21 [Recreation/Humor, Politics/Domestic] UID:30343 Activity:very high
5/21    http://csua.org/u/7ef
        Aren't Right Wingers funny when they make fun of dead peace activists?
        \_ Aren't peace activists funny when they do something stupid and die?
           \_ no, actually, that's not funny at all.
        \_ I'm waiting for some self-identifying conservative to disavow this
           one the way I disavow myself from Ted Rall's frequent idiocy. I
           suspect it won't happen, actually. -- ulysses
                \_ I'm taken aback by the uproar considering most
                   leftists are also Darwinists.
           \_ You are a liberal?
             \_ That depends on who's asking. -- ulysses
        \_ I'm not sure what to disavow here.  This is tasteless and not
           funny.  One the other hand, it's just a crappy cartoon in a
           University rag.  It's not nationally syndicated, who cares?
           BTW, yes, I'm right wing, and I think what she did was stupid.
           Doesn't mean I don't think this comic is too.
2004/5/19 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30291 Activity:very high
5/19    Did anyone else listen to the Senate hearings this morning?  Any
        major gaffes?  The only one I heard (in about 15 minutes of
        listening) was a North Carolina Senator refer to the Blackwater mercs
        who were killed and mutilated as "unarmed civilians" who needed the
        army's protection.  No one corrected her.
        \_ What about the near continuous conflating of the Iraq war with
           the war on terror?
           \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ Truth is lie repeated agina and again.
           \_ Because the one is a subset of the other.
              \_ In Bizarro-world, yes.
                 \_ No YOU'RE the dooty-head!

                 \_ Bizarro Murphy: Did you try ****ing him in the ***hole?
                 \_ Bizarro Murphy: Did you try ****ing him in the ***?
                    Bizzaro Debbie: Yeah.
                    Quinn: Twice
                    Bizarro Murphy: That usually works.
2004/5/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30282 Activity:nil
5/18    And the shit keeps hitting the fan.  Intel Seargent Samuel
        Provance alleges cover-up at Abu-Ghraib
        http://tinyurl.com/2w2ts (ABC News link)
2004/5/18 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30280 Activity:nil
5/18    On the draft:  There are *no rules* for the draft.  Each is unique.
        Just because they did XYZ in Vietnam or ABC in WWII doesn't mean they
        will do the same thing again in any future drafts.  A future draft
        could cover any age range, could be in any order, could have any list
        of exemptions or none at all.  *IF* there is a draft, they will
        determine the rules at the time.  Anyone who tells you before that
        time that you are or are not draftable doesn't know what they're
        talking about.
        \_ You are right, they could start out by drafting 80 year old
           widows, but they probably won't.
        \_ All you future draft dodgers don't need to worry.  Planning is
           being done so the U.S. has something in its back pocket in the
           event of a serious threat to national security:  e.g., North Korea
           starts nuking, we end up in a war with China, Iran starts a
           conventional war with threat of nukes, Pakistan-India blows up,
           an oil-rich country is nuked, there is a coup which leads to any
           of these things, etc.  If any of the above happens, conscription
           will be the least of your worries.
           \_ I'd love to believe our country is this strong.  But considering
              that it only takes two small third-world countries, whose govts
              have already been toppled, to strain our military resources so
              badly, I wouldn't believe in this.
2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30206 Activity:kinda low
5/13    Anti-oursourcing movement: http://tinyurl.com/29paf
2004/5/12 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30174 Activity:moderate
5/12    On the flip side, CNN headlines "U.S., Iraq vow to hunt down killers
        of American hostage", but do not attribute this declaration to anyone
        in particular in the story itself.
        \_ uh, what do you mean?
        \_ On the flip side of what?  Are you trying to be shocked that CNN
           does third rate reporting?
2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30083 Activity:high
5/7     Rumsfeld's testimony before Congress is on cspan radio right now:
        free access in multiple formats
        \_ The bell tolls for thee, Rummy.
           \_ Not really.  I assume you didn't listen to the testimony?
              \_ You mean the testimony where he wouldn't answer ANY direct
                 \_ "Mr. Secretary, that's a very simple straightforward
              \_ If you've been following the news for the last two years,
                 do you really need to?
        \_ Rumsfeld has served his purpose.  He gave the military structure a
           kick in the ass.  He made the comfy n cozy paper pushers do their
           fucking jobs for the first time.  He killed some useless weapons
           programs and promoted some better ones that weren't as "sexy" to
           the pentagon types.  He can do one last useful thing when he bites
           the bullet for the prisoner abuse and fades into the sunset.
           -R.B. Cheney
2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:30074 Activity:very high
5/6     To whoever was suggesting the Branch Davidians were murdered in cold
        blood without provocation, these are the names of the four ATF agents
        killed when they tried to serve a search warrant:
        Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams, Steven Willis
        \_ I'm one (the other?) guy who argued with ilyas. Call me "fascist".
           Now, I've read some conspiracy theories out there purporting that
           a) ATF agents opened fire first and b) the first 3 ATF deaths were
           friendly fire, which forensics supposedly corroborates. Then c)
           pissed off feds try to cover the thing up. I don't really know
           the truth here. The official inquiries don't support that, and if
           that was true then just what they were negotiating about during
           the weeks-long siege. I don't believe the Davidians were meekly
           unresisting. I do think it was a royal fuckup which wasn't
           adequately resolved.
        \_ why did the ATF call a local tv station to come on down
           and film them busting the doors down at le compound?  they
           in the US after WTC I.
           could have just called david koresh to come to the station
           and turn himself in.  instead someone unwisely turned
           it all into a clusterfuck.
        \_ Okay, quit it. You aren't Walter Cronkite. Give it a rest.
        \_ Bullshit, six Davidians also were killed in the initial
           shootout.  It has never been established that the Davidians
           fired first, more likely the ATF.  Koresh used to walk
           around town by himself a few days a week and had gone
           shooting with ATF agents in the past.  It was
           never proven any of their arms were illegal.  And I
           suppose you think Randy Weaver's wife and son also
           had it coming?
           Furthermore, this is the shit the intelligence agencies were
           up to during the '90s, all the while Islamicists were festering
           in the US after WTC I.                  -Mr. Bullshit
           \_ 'more likely the ATF'?  What are you talking about?  Do you
              really have a reasonably legitimate source showing that ATF
              is composed of trigger-happy psychopaths, or is this just
              juvenile anecdotal 'I Hate Mom and Da--err Cops!'?  I find it
              very, very unlikely that federal agents serving a warrant would
              have just started randomly shooting people, "Hey!  That guy is
              ugly! <BLAM!>  That dude is short!  <BLAM-BLAM!>"  Get fucking
              serious.  I find it much more realistic that they tried to serve
              the warrant, were fired upon, and in turn fired back.  People
              do tend to die in shootouts -- it's a proven fact.  Honest!  If
              you can provide even semi-credible sources to back your claims,
              I'll gladly concede the point (and be very pissed off at the
              gross incompetency that my tax dollars are paying for).
              \_ What was the warrant for?  Weren't they entrapped by the Feds
                 into buying an illegal shotgun or something stupid like that?
              \_ Proof that the Feds are a bunch of trigger happy jack boot
                 thugs?  Ruby Ridge.  Concede anything?
           \_ I'm not going to try to debate or defend the ATF raid, but
              someone very smugly said NO federal agents were killed, the
              Davidians never fired a shot, and challenged people to name the
              agents killed if there were any.  -dgies
           \_ what is this davidian thing all about?  it kind of reminds
              me of what we are doing to falluja.
              \_ And why the hell are you guys arguing about it NOW?!  There's
                 a lot more heinous things going on in the world RIGHT NOW.
                 \_ You see, son, there's this thing called HISTORY.  Some
                    people are interested in it because it can often provide
                    context to this other thing called the PRESENT.  The two
                    are often very strongly related to each other.  Use a
                    dictionary, you might find it elucidating.
                    \_ Yes, history is important.  However, rehashing idiotic
                       message board arguments from ages ago is not illuminating
                       in any way.  Absolutely nothing I've seen here wasn't
                       run into the ground by every wingnut on every side of
                       the issue 10 years ago, and it didn't help anything then
                       or provide context.  Oh yeah, and as to your cute
                       little dictionary comment, obFuckYou.
                       \_ It educated some people at the time as to the evils
                          the Government can inflict upon the People.  We
                          rehash it (this is the History Lesson part) in an
                          effort to educate those, apparently such as yourself,
                          that the Government still acts like that and it is
2004/5/3-4 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29976 Activity:moderate
5/3     Today's Doonesbury has the "Why do you hate America" joke:
        \_ Why do YOU hate America?
        \_ They steal all my best ideas.
                \_ April never ended!!!
            \_ "April is the cruelest month, breeding
                Freepers out of the dead gland, mixing
                Merde and desire, stirring
                Dull shoots with spring rain."
2004/5/3-4 [Politics/Domestic, Politics] UID:29956 Activity:insanely high
5/3     How many of you would support the President in his capacity as
        Commander-in-Chief issuing an apology [to whom?] for the conduct
        and pictures at the military prison in Iraq.
        \_ Actions speak louder than words.  The Americans who did that
           should be caned, at a minimum.
           \_ I mean in addition to individual disciplining.  Just the
              "sorry about the bad apples in the US Military basket"
              doesnt seem like enough.  It's not reasonable to claim
              "this was part of military interrogation" considering the
              "souvenir pictures" that were taken.  For the US to try
              to get off "cheap" will cost more in the end.
              \_ they were stucking broom stick and chemical lights right
                 in those prisoner's ass. Other than that,  rape
                 and electrical shocks are common method used by the
                 Army Intelligence unit.  I suspect this is also happening
                 in Guantamano Bay as well.
        \_ We are the guardians of Democracy and Human Right.  These video
           has again prove that our interrogation methods are far more humane
           than Saddam's.
           \_ public execution of those soldiers would help, and I am not
              \_ you're an idiot.  we still have laws.  they are being
                 followed to the letter in this case.
        \_ Apologizing means very little.  Publicly punishing/humiliating
           those responsible, for the world to see, might be more useful.
           \_ It isnt an either/or choice.
2004/4/29 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13471 Activity:nil
4/29    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1792200
        A University of Massachusetts student has openly criticized Pat
        Tillman, calling the former NFL player a Rambo-like idiot in the
        school paper. The column in question was submitted by graduate student
        Rene Gonzalez and published Wednesday in the Daily Collegian. It was
        titled "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him."
        \_ it goes without saying that Gonzalez is an ass, and Tillman's death
           is a tragedy (along with everybody else who's getting blown away).
           But really, do we have to call it the Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza?
           I don't like mixing up "Counter-Terrorism" with "Freedom".  It's
           not our freedom that's being fought for in Afghanistan or Iraq, it's
           our security.
           \_ My prediction: They will rename the Patriot's stadium
              "Patrick Tillman Memorial Stadium" on opening day
              of the NFL season. George W Bush will preside over
              the ceremony, complete with 100s of American flags
              and a fireworks display.
           \_ Why is Gonzales an "ass"? He might very well have a point,
              and I don't blame him given the intelligence of most of our
              \_ Look, an American soldier just died on a road in Afghanistan.
                 You can question his sanity about giving up a multimillion
                 dollar contract to join the army, but now is not the time to
                 speculate groundlessly that he was there because of Rambo or
                 nationalism.  Tillman died doing something honorable, and
                 his family doesn't need any petty sniping from an ass like
                 Gonzalez who's just speculating about Tillman's motives.
              \_ "You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the 'real'
                 thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy,
                 from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he
                 got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in
                 real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should
                 call Pat Tillman's army life 'Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to
                 Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets
                 Killed." -R. Gonzalez
        \_ Gonzalez is a putrid scumbad.
2004/4/21-22 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:13324 Activity:nil
4/21    This administration stole $700mm from Afghan budget to attack Iraq.
        The public needs to know about this.  Email Hiatt@washpost.com
        Tell him to cover the story, and tell him it's front page material.
        \_ I don't think this is true, because it would indicate this
           Administration has a clue.
        \_ they stole the election, stole from SS and medicare...hmmmmmmm,
           sounds like a pattern, but not enough care. So bizness as usual.
2004/4/20 [Politics/Domestic] UID:13300 Activity:nil
4/20    Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department
        CHEYENNE, WY
        After attempting to contain a living-room blaze started by a cigarette,
        card-carrying Libertarian Trent Jacobs reluctantly called the Cheyenne
        Fire Department Monday. "Although the community would do better to rely
        on an efficient, free-market fire-fighting service, the fact is that
        expensive, unnecessary public fire departments do exist," Jacobs said.
        "Also, my house was burning down." Jacobs did not offer to pay
        firefighters for their service.
        \_ This better be from the Onion.
2004/4/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:13209 Activity:nil
4/14    http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2577440
        Republicans want more (much needed according to _the E_) regulation
        Democrats blocking it.
        \_ Need a subscription to the E to read it. Can you summerize (or
           at least describe what kind of regulation)?
            \_ sure, FANNIE MAE and Freddie Mac are behaving like 1980s era
                savings and loans (my words) and have de facto government
                protection (taxpayer protection) against the overreaching
                risks which they are (thus) willing to take.  Also some
                accounting tricks that overstate the "reserve" capital that
                they have on hand to meet the (already too low according to
                _The E_) govmnt requirements.
        \_ Which party is doing what re fannie/freddie is political bullshit.
           However, there is a real problem with the way both funds are run
           and structured which goes back many years.  Fannie is in
           exeptionally bad shape which will probably require entirely new
           management to correct their current way of thinking.  Freddie can
           still be save as is if they beat on current management a little bit.
2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:13200 Activity:moderate
4/14    So much for any attempt at legitimacy:
        \_ Classy joint. (A clarification, I am just noting how they are
           discussing their legal matters, vs. how, say, Limbaugh is discussing
           his.  I don't listen to Franken's show, so I can't comment on the
           content.) -- ilyas
           \_ What's wrong with Limbaugh's discussion of his legal matters?
        \_ Classy joint. -- ilyas
              \_ Nothing. -- ilyas
        \_ I don't know which is worse:  naming a company Multicultural
           Broadcasting, or all the Liu jokes.
           \_ They are discussing this right now on the air.
        \_ Hehe.  I love seeing all the wingers complain about the "incivility"
           of Air America after over a decade of Limbaugh-tomy.  Franken's show
           is a church meeting compared to a lot of the right wing radio out
           there...Randi Rhodes kinda sucks though.
           \_ I find it annoying that Franken claims to have invented liberal
              talk radio.  there's plenty of good liberal talk radio out there,
              you just have to hunt around for it.
           \_ Rush is funny.  What is "incivil" about Rush other than your
              philosophical disagreement?  Does anyone who disagree with your
              you just have to hunt around for it.
              beliefs automatically count as a barbarian?
           \_ I don't listen to Rush. -op
2004/3/26 [Politics/Domestic] UID:12873 Activity:nil
3/25    Did the liberals take down The Free Republic web site?
        \_ Hmm, and the liberal radio network is launching soon.  Coincidence?
           I think not...
2004/3/25-26 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:12867 Activity:high
3/25    Read this, you liberals, about the Chrisian way of business management
        \_ Doesn't seem very christian to me.  The corporate equivalent of an
        \_ Doesn't seem very christian to me.
2004/3/18 [Politics/Domestic] UID:12742 Activity:nil
3/18    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/18/international/asia/18TAIW.html
        Presential election of Republic of China (aka Taiwan) is this
        Saturday.  The NY Times article highlight some of the
        "de-sinofication" movement which has torn the Island apart.
        On one hand, this election is extremely unprodictable, which I gathered
        as a good thing (oppose to Russia's election last week).  On the
        other hand, with electroal commision being pressued to make all sort
        of procedural compromise due to president's political pressure, there
        is a slight chance that the result of election will be in question.
        What would happen if significant number of people start to questioning
        the result is anyone's guess.
2004/3/2 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic] UID:29845 Activity:insanely high
3/1     In case anyone's still interested, I saw a cop standing on the corner
        of Telegraph and Durant for at least 30 minutes doing nothing else
        but giving out citations for gaywalking.  At least one guy was able to
        "talk" his way out of it.
        \_ Just run and hide in Unit 3 somewhere.
        \_ I wonder if there was an accident recently?
        \_ What's the penalty for it? Also, how do they enforce it? Can't you
           \_ It's the law that you must carry ID. Whoops, another ticket!
           say you don't have ID etc?
           \_ I've been told that there's a law that requires all adults to
              carry some form of approved ID on them at all times out in public.
        \_ He's just doing his part to fix Berkeley's budget deficit.
           \_ I guess this is what happens when people keep breaking
              parking meters.
              \_ Nonsense.  The parking meters are set to give less time than
                 they say so they give out more bogus tickets.  Breaking meters
                 was civil disobedience.
                 \_ um, no.  how many meters did you break?  i broke and
                    destroyed maybe a dozen or so over the years in
                    berkeley, and knew people who destroyed more.
                    none of us ever drove, had cars or parked.  it was just
                    random violence.
        \_ I remember about 7 or 8 years ago, the bike cops would nab
           gaywalkers during the weekends.  I heard one cop telling a
           gaywalker that the fine was 75 bucks.
           \_ Mine was $40.  When I forgot to pay it, my mom got a
              threatening call from some bitch affirmative action hiree at
              the BPD--"he's in trouble, he's committed a crime."  -John
2004/3/1-2 [Politics/Domestic, Recreation/Media] UID:12479 Activity:high
3/1     Do you watch more broadcast TV or cable?
        Are you Republican or Democrat?
        Study suggests that Republicans watch more cable TV than Democrats.
        \_ How about the study that suggests more people in areas
           with ass reception watch cable TV? Sheesh.
        \_ Would you prefer if I were not republican or democrat?
2004/2/18 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29818 Activity:nil
2/17    Democrat Chandler mauls Republican in Kentucky special House election,
        55.3 to 42.8:
        [ um, why was this censored? ]
2004/2/8-9 [Politics/Domestic, Politics] UID:12164 Activity:high
2/8     English people are still ugly:
        \_ Nice little racist troll.  Good attmpt.  No cookie.
           \_ i hardly see how that's racist, considering there are several
              races represented.
2004/2/5 [Politics/Domestic] UID:12110 Activity:nil
2/5     conservatives and liberals love to argue and would rather do so
        than have a boring motd.
        \_ What about libertarians/authoritarians?  Don't they love to argue
           too?  Why can't you acknowledge that there are simply more
           argument lovers than you think there are?  When you grow up and
           have a real job, let us all know.
           \_ okay, I'll be inclusive and include those people too.
2004/2/4 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29780 Activity:nil 50%like:29782
2/4     Conservatives -- what two issues do you really care about?
        Liberals      -- what two issues do you really care about?
        Moderates     -- what two issues do you really care about?
2004/1/28 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11971 Activity:high
1/27    "Most Obnoxious Television Show Ever" poll
        American Idol: .
        American Idol 2: ..
        American Idol 3: ...........
        Simpsons: .
        The one with Nikki Cox and Bobcat Golthwait as the muppet:
        Anything with Steven Cojocaru in it: .
        \_ Who is he?
        Ed, Edd, and Eddy: .
        The XFL: .
2004/1/27 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11970 Activity:nil
1/27    Question for my fellow libertarians:  what do you think of the trillion
        dollar deficit over the next 10 years?  Do you have more respect for
        democrats or republicans?  Personally I have more respect for democrats
        because they actually believe that govt is the solution to a lot of
        problems and aren't afraid to act on it.  Republicans, on the other
        hand, keep talking about small govt.  I'm still waiting for the
        fucking govt to shrink!  What happened to abolishing the dept of
        education, destroying public radio and television, or reducing the
        size of the fucking federal budget?  I'm never voting republican
        \_ Well, your troll isn't well formed, so let me make a few corrections:
           'Personally I have more respect for democrats because, while they believe
           in something other than what I, as a libertarian, believe in, they at
           least act accordingly, whereas republicans do not.'  The answer to what
           you meant to say is that there are cases where going into debt is
           justifiable.  The only question left is whether going into debt in the
           current conditions is justifiable or not.
        \_ Been over this.  Republican != conservative.  Thank you.  And no,
           you're no libertarian.  You're an easily spotted lefty troll.  You
           have never voted Republican in your life.
        \_ I find it highly annoying how they keep talking about deficits when
           they really mean debts.  WE're running 3.5 trillion in debt so far
           and its likely to be at least 6 by the time gwb is out of office
           (I'm assuming the Dem's lose this one).  That's about $15,000
           debt per US citizen (not per taxpayer!).  Someone gets to pay it,
           and as long as we keep up the deficits, its going to be future
           \_ The current national debt is $7 trillion. --scotsman
           \_ They're not talking about debt, they're talking about cumulative
              deficits.  -tom
              \_ Which is basically debt.
                 \_ no, fucknut.
2004/1/23 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:29756 Activity:nil
1/22    Are people who support "pro-free-downloadable music" conservatives
        or liberals?
        \_ doesn't enter into it.  the industry has failed by not recognizing
           basic facts about the material.  check out http://magnatune.com.
        \_ In the sense of RPG alignment, I'd say they are Chaotic, not Evil.
           \_ Nah, they are Neutral or even Lawful. They just don't care
              about that law too much. They'd rather not break it, but it's
              pretty minor and they obey most other laws. It's hard to make
              the case they are really hurting anyone so it's not Evil.
              \_ I said they're not evil, but since they are breaking the law
                 as a matter of course, they are NOT Lawful and probably Chaotic
                 An otherwise moral filesharer would probably be Chaotic Good
                 \_ Not to elevate this into an Iron Geek contest, but breaking
                    s few minor laws doesn't make a character Chaotic. Most
                    people are just opportunistic. Ok, they're not Lawful. But
                    if they're otherwise regular folks who fit in with society
                    they're not Chaotic.
                    \_ I agree. otherwise moral filesharer is Neutral-Good
             \_ when "minor" laws are broken in large numbers, it becomes
                a major problem.
           \_ can you please refresh my memory?  Lawful, Neutral, Chaotic, ...
              \_ two axes: one of good-evil, and one of lawfulness-disregard
              \_ Very roughly:  Lawful=Act on principles or laws
                                Neutral=Balanced motives
                                Chaotic=Act on pragmatism or impulse
                 for law:  L-N-C, and Good,Neutral,Evil, so every character is
                 one of G-N-E, and one of L-N-C, for a total of 9 different
                 personality types.
        \_ They are the fallen paladins of the 'net, the blackguards if you
        \_ I suppose in the strictest sense of the definitions, a true
           conservative would say it is illegal, and a true liberal would say
           the laws should be changed.  You know, conservative = conserve the
           status quo.  Liberal = liberalize laws or social norms.
           \_ but don't liberals want to protect the rights of artists?
              \_ I was just speaking as to the original meaning of the words,
                 not what they mean in common parlance.  I don't want to open
                 that can of worms, unlike the OP.
        \_ What if you support it, but you don't do it?
           \_ what if you do it, but don't support it?
              \_ play the monkey-spank game until you change your mind
        \_ I'm conservative and support a total reexamination of IP law.
2004/1/22-23 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:29753 Activity:nil
1/22    So the ex-governor of S. Dakota with a history of speeding got 100
        days in jail for running a stop sign and killing someone.  The S.
        Dakota judge could have given him anything from nothing to 11 years.
        Isn't there something wrong with this?
        \_ You forgot his history of running stop signs.  And lying about
           speeding that day.
2004/1/14-15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11769 Activity:kinda low
1/14    http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1821&sequence=0
        \_ Yes, we all know this.  Your point?
           \_ How would you like to pay it off?  3.5 G$ debt, 10,000 per capita!
              \_ We'll use the Mary Carey plan: tax breast implants!
              \_ bzzzzz. 95% of the wealth is owned by 5% of the population.
                 Sorry IT workers, you don't belong to that 5%. At any rate,
                 if you can get that 5% to contribute a little bit more,
                 that's less that 10,000 per capita
2004/1/10-11 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11744 Activity:nil
1/9     http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9.htm proves beyond a doubt that
        Bush Knew!
        \_ they also draw up plans for invading North Korea, France,
        Germany, etc. they do this all the time..
           \_ good comeback.
2004/1/6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11691 Activity:nil
1/6     NPR has a radio-only Dem. presidential primary debate.
        \_ So why did you erase the discussion below this?
2004/1/5-6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11665 Activity:low
1/5     Do most people use Spanish names in the Philippines?  Thx.
        \_ Filipinos took whatever suited their fancy regardig names
        -- it was common for members of the same family to have
        different surnames, if the sundry individuals took them at all
           \_ not so common in present day.
        -- until 1849, when the Spanish governor published a huge
        catalog of Spanish & Filipino surnames and required everyone
        to pick one per family and stick with it. The normalization
        of surnames was rather haphazard: some took a name from the
        catalog assigned by the local governor, who sometimes just
        ripped out a page and passed it around; others stuck with
        old surnames, Spanish or Filipino; more than a few picked
        the name of a favorite saint (hence, the popularity of "delos
        Santos"). In short, yes. -elizp, one fly Pinay
        \_ Most people use their own names.
           \_ BTW, why is "Maria" so popular among Filipinos?
              \_ I don't know. Why is "Jennifer" so popular among Americans?
                 \_ If she were Asian, she'd go by "Jen".
              \_ Religion.
                 \_ Did you know that up until around 1880 almost no girls were
                    named Mary in the U.S. because the name was considered too
                    holy?  After it became OK to name your daughter Mary it
                    became someitng of a name fad.
              \_ Gracing the beginning of your name with "Maria" is
                 supposed to make it holy. Even guys get named Maria.
                 But it isn't practical to have a community where everyone
                 goes by the same first name, so most go by their middle
                 names (ie, "Ma. Jennifer Aniston") or some distinguishing
                 nickname ("Ma. Joker Garcia" is my favorite). -elizp
              \_ Men are commonly named "Jose-Marias"+surname.  It's a
                 Catholic thing you heathen bastards. - Pinoy.
        \_ It depends. Some names are from pre-Spanish times.
        \_ first names or surnames?
           \_ I was asking about first names, because I thought surnames were
              fixed in families just like in most other cultures.
              \_ first names are mostly Christian, Filipino, American,
                 and Hispanic.  I don't remember meeting many "Heather"'s,
        \_ What about Malou Nubla?
           \_ what about her?  Malou is a pretty common Filipino Name.
              \_ "Baby", "Boy", and "Junior" are common nicknames.
2004/1/4-5 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11656 Activity:nil
1/3     turn on CNN. the spirit has bounced (landed).
        \_ Lots of Cal alumni contributed. Wayne Lee (Asian guy in
           American flag shirt) was a Cal engineering (EE) undergrad. I even
           American flag shirt) was a Cal engineering undergrad. I even
           saw someone in the Surface MSA wearing a Cal hat. --dim
           \_ What year was Lee?
                \_ Year of the rat.
                   \_ Class of '96?
                   \_ Class of '96?
                \_ Dunno, but he's about 35. 1991?
2004/1/1-2 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:11642 Activity:nil
1/1     You have to be an idiot or a lawyer to think that the interstate
        commerce clause gives congress constitutional authority to
        legislate regarding domestic violence. -peroof
        \_ Or both!
2003/12/31-2004/1/1 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11632 Activity:kinda low
12/31   No mocking of Republicans in the motd will be tolerated.
        \_ I mock any labels for the sheer fact they are not all true.
           \_ It wasn't the Republicans that started the whole
              "freedom fries" nonsenese?
2003/12/16-17 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign] UID:11477 Activity:kinda low
12/16   Silly question maybe, but what's the difference between "people"
        and "persons"? A quick google didn't seem to help. Thanks.
        \_ "people" is a real word.  "persons" is some twisted thing used by
           paper pushing govnerment types starting in the mid 90s in an attempt
           to make their crap sound more professional.  real people don't use
           the word persons in everyday conversation or writing.  it's
           \_ actually, if you look in the OED, persons has been used for at
              least 500 years. persons is the proper plural form of person,
              but a secondary sense of people is persons, so that is acceptable
              as well. if you want to be formal and precise, it is "persons"
              \_ e.g. "You persons can go fuck yourself" is very formal.
           \_ I agree.
           \_ persons is a good new word.  people has too many meanings or
              shades of meaning, and it can be ambiguous which one is being
              used.  My guess would be that it started not with government
              types but legal types.
              \_ Once again, you all need to read this essay:
                 George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language"
                 \- while i am a fan of this article, i think Orwell's
                    complaint would be more with say using "individuals"
                    instead of "people". let me call some of my people
                    about the person/people distinction. --psb
                    \- hmm, it looks like "recently" persons was weakly
                       for a specific number [the 12 persons on the jury]
                       but people was for a vague number [many people in
                       the court room], but it is acknowledged "persons"
                       is giving way to "people". however there are some
                       contexts where persons still seems right ...
                       "persons under 17 will not be admitted without
                       supervision". --psb
                       \_ thank you psb!  I knew the "people good" "persons
                          bad" guy was wrong.  - a once-in-a-while psb fan
2003/12/16 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11474 Activity:nil
12/15   Republican Congress hard at work:
        \_ Interesting: Messrs. Ose and Smith neglected to include the more
           traditionally profane "goddamn" and "damn," as well as that rap
           favorite, "bitch."  And why include the word "piss"?
        \_ that's funny, I was actually just listening to "startin'
           up a posse" by Anthrax when I read this.  Look up the lyrics
           if you care.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ YOU are the one who hates america- we patriots are sick of your
              corporate masters raping our beloved country.  Go back to Nazi
              Germany where you can oppress everyone who isn't exactly like
              you!  We will fight you no matter whose apron you hide behind!
              \_ Mmm... easy catch.
                 \_ hardly worth it.  anything that easy should be thrown
                    back and allowed to season a good long while.
           \_ if you love America, then, America should modeled after
                Saudi Arabia, where Moral Police driving in green police
                cars roaming freely to enforce proper moral values in the
              \_ wow, that's totally non sequiter.
        \_ You know they're just doing this because they hate Bono.
2003/12/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29717 Activity:nil
12/15   Are foreign policy isolationists conservative or liberal?
2003/12/10-11 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:11394 Activity:low
12/9    http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1537409.html
        NPR series on Brown vs Board.  This is one of the best series
        produced by Nina Totenberg.  I love NPR!
        \- But they didnt talk about how Earl Warren was a Stripper. --psb
           \_ Earl Warren wasn't a stripper! -ms
              \- You're so naive.
        \_ I always pictured her (Nina) as some young hottie journalist.
           Maybe she was one 15 years ago...
           \- Judy Woodruff >> N.T.
2003/12/8-9 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11355 Activity:low
12/7    White House concerned about the fairness of the Russian election:
        \_ Anyone remember a crooked African elecion that happened like a year
           ago and the USGOV expressed concerns about fairness and the African
           politician offered to send observers to our next election and made
           some quip along the lines of Pot vs. Kettle.
           \_ Didn't Diebold sue to get this supressed?
2003/12/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:11344 Activity:nil
12/7    Most people probably already know this, but just in case for those
        who are not aware of it..
        \_ Do you know how many of the senators and representatives now
           in the presidential race stood up against the DMCA or the
           copyright extension act? none. not kucinich, not kerry,
           not liebermann, not gebhart.  no one from either party stood
           up against this.  the only way we're going to beat these
           evil cocksuckers is by becoming as effective a lobby as the
           media moguls.  i'll bet a million nerds who make about 100k/year
           can beat a dozen or so media moguls in a out and out brawl
           to buy congressmen.
           \_ and i'll bet 5 million nerds who make 100k/year won't be
              as successful buying congressman than a few corporations
              that rake in billions every year.
        \_ Interesting. But I don't see any logical basis for his assertion
           the GPL itself is unconstitutional/illegal.
           \_ I didn't think so neither.  But it's just my personal opinion.
              An somewhat related issue: copyright suppose to be a temperary
              protection.  Yet, the current copyright last just couple years
              short of life expentacy of Average Americans, thus, for pratical
              purposes, permanent.  In this regard, our current copyright law
              can be argued as unconsitutional itself. :p
              \_ I agree with that. It's clear congress was acting in the
                 interest of Disney rather than the public with that extension
                 although I'm not sure it's unconstitutional. But what I meant
                 was, the guy says GPL is unconstitutional but doesn't directly
                 say why. He just blathers about whether there should be copy-
                 rights, but GPL uses copyrights.
                 \_ lessig argues on his blog that the copyright extension
                    could possibly be considered unconstitutional because
                    it is not in the best interests of promoting the "progress
                    of science and the useful arts," as mandated by the
                    of course, i'm not an expert on the constition, or
                    constitutional law, but Lessig sure is.
                    \_ An important part of his argument regarded retroactive
                       extensions-- the Constitution explicitly mentions
                       'limited times' for copyright, but by extending the
                       term for 20 years every 20 years, Congress is creating
                       a regime of perpetual copyright.
           \- i tried to get through this but it was so stupid i
              couldnt do it. it's an interesting question where did
              the letter come from, is this to change the topic etc. --psb
              \_ it's trying to gather up substance behind what it's saying
                 by relying on eldred. but eldred wasn't even a software case.
2003/12/6-7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11342 Activity:nil
12/6    If you're reading this, you have internet access, free time, and
        and interest in politics--time to turn on cspan and listen to the
        democratic candidates. http://www.cspan.org
        \_ "Why should I waste my beautiful mind on things like that."
           Barbara Bush
2003/11/28 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11255 Activity:high
11/27   Welcome to the one-party system.  Maybe we should rename Congress the
        Central Committee?
        \_ Waaa, the Dems have controlled Congress a vastly overwhelming
        \_ Waaa, the Dems have controlled Congress the vast, overwhelming
           majority of the past 70 years.  Time to dismantle the New
           Deal and Great Society - they are complete failures.
           Lest we not forget the filibuster defeat of judicial nominees -
           a practice used only in the history of the republic.
           The Dems need only look in the mirror for their problems.
           Deal and Great Society - they are complete failures.
           Socialism is dead.
           The Dems need only look in the mirror for their problems.
           \_ Dude, major buuuuurn.
           \_ What cheeses be off, is the republicans pouring MORE money
              in to medicare and such.  I elected you guys to get RID of
              that crap.
              \_ Libertarianism seems to lead to brain rot.  You actually
                 thought the Republicans would do something that would
                 instantly get them all unelected?  Medicare is very
                 popular.  While individual Republicans can be quite
                 principled, the party leadership is a bunch of whores
                 and uses any tactic necessary to stay in power.  That's
                 what the article was about, but no one read it.
                 Here's a Bob Novak column about it:
2003/11/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:11214 Activity:nil
11/24   battlestar galactica is back
        \_ cyborg Cylons!?! WTF?! Boycott! Go buy the DVD box set
           instead - a much better investment in time.
        \_ I think it is good that Starbuck is going to be a girl.
           I think that character will play better as a female.
           That being said, and although i will certainly be tuning in,
           I don't really have much hope. The second main guy they talk
           about in that link is from the ST_TNG_ and _DS9_ and those
           shows both mostly sucked ass.  Also any time someone in SF
           talks about how it is really all about the characters, their
           show sucks.  (of course, it is a small sample size of shows
           that all suck.  I don't understand how two of the best shows
           \_ [added at the top because the rest of the replies are OT]
              SciFi has a real hit (Dune, Children of Dune) and miss (every-
              thing else) ratio with their original material.  BG could go
              either way.  As for ST:TNG and DS9, your opinion is noted and
              scoffed at, but basing your hopes for BG on the inclusion of
              a guy who did some "co-writing" and producing on the other
              shows makes no sense; the entire ST franchise is under the
              thumb of the domineering and autocratic Rick Berman.  BG
              will be the first time we get to see Moore with full creative
              license.  Let's see how badly he mangles the pilot and _then_
              pillory him.
              \_  Well, I can't think of anyone in the industry that I
                  despise like i despise Rick Berman, so I am willing to
                  put all the blame on him.  My fingers are now crossed.
                  \_ Right on.  Now, when it turns out to be a steaming
                     pile, I'll be glad to commiserate with you right here.
              \_ You liked children of dune?
                 \_ It was flawed, but yes, I liked it.
           \_ Troll/flamefest Below:
           \_ Anyone who uses the phrase "sucked ass" in a serious way
              can't be worth listening to.  I knew you were an idiot when
              you said Starbuck should be female but didn't truly understand
              until you were sucking ass.
              \_ Wow.  You managed to derail anything remotely like conversation
                 about the topic.  You get the troller-of-the-week cookie!
                 \_ I bow before the other motd masters of destruction.  I am
                    but a butterfly before their hammer.
              \_ Starbuck acted like a female anyway, might as well make him
                 one and give me something to look at.
                 \_ bite me, I didn't.
                    \_ yes, you did. But apparently, you're too clueless
                       to notice that a file has changed since you opened
                       it in your editor.
                       \_ because I used 'diff' incorrectly?  bite me.
              \_ Wow.  You're astoundingly closed minded.  A swear word mixed
                 in with a sentence does not invalidate the thoughts or
                 intellect of the poster.  It might not necessarily demonstrate
                 good socialization or courtesy, but it has absolutely nothing
                 to do with intelligence.  Let me put it this way: Go away you
                 sanctimonious twit.  Have a nice day.
                 \_ Dear Moron, perhaps you failed basic reading comprehension,
                    or maybe you were simply born with a low IQ or other mental
                    defect so I shall explain to you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y.  The
                    op made 2 statements.  I responded to both.  I made it
                    clear that the "swear word" was not my primary concern but
                    was merely an indication of ordinary idiocy.  I presented
                    my reason for the belief in the next sentence.  In the
                    future I shall w-r-i-t-e m-u-c-h s-l-o-w-e-r for you.
                    Please die and have a nice day.
                    \_ cf, 'sanctimonius twit' etc.  Have a nice day.
                    \_ Apparently your definition of idiocy is different
                       from mine.   You're a christian republican sysadmin,
                       aren't you?
                       \_ You forgot "white, fat, racist, rich, old, uncool,
                          greasy, stupid, uneducated, jewish, southern hick"
                          in your ad hominen.
                       \_ Hey, stop insulting us christian republican
                          sysadmins (white, fat, or otherwise).
                          \_ Why not?  They are the most easily baited, and
                             they make up most of the motd population.
                             \_ left out again...  --black muslim green poet
2003/11/24 [Politics/Domestic] UID:11202 Activity:nil
11/24   They say that this is the first official State Visit from America
        to Britian since 1918.  What is the difference between official
        "State Visit" versus all other visits by the head of the State?
        \_ Queen formally invites the president. Queen is head of state, the
           PM (Blair) is the head of the government. In the US, Gee Whiz is
                                                        LOL  __/
           both. The head of state in constitutional monarchies usually
           don't involve themselves in politics. Queen just rubber stamps
           legislation and gives out state dinners. In reality, it is of
           little or no concern whether or not the Queen is involved.
           \_ I don't read the pseudo conservative sites or newspapers that
              use cutesy/stupid names for politicians.  It distracts from the
              real issue and after the 2nd or 3rd time becomes beyond childish.
              In fact, I don't recall seeing much of that on the motd, either.
              Why do leftists feel it's so funny to use the same silly little
              names over and over?  It doesn't add any weight to your points.
              You just look petty and childish.  --motd conservative
        \_ maybe the stupid royalty gets involved? pomp, circumstance etc?
           \- helo a state visit from the "client end" requires the head of
              state is the person coming. so canada probably cant qualify
              since the queen [who should be beaten] is herself
              the head of state for canada [i assume if the queen's governor
              general is invited that is more of a summons rather than a
              visit]. on the "server side" nowadays the invitation really
              comes from the govt but i think they still go through a lot
              of archaic procedures like the monarch [sic] sends a personally
              written invitation, puts out the visitor in one of the royal
              households [sic], it usually is midweek, they have fancy dinners
              and speeches and i believe some monarch started the mandatory
              trip outside london. after wilson didnt Raygun get an state
              visit from m. thatcher? i dunno who else was invited but
              i am sure others were ... i think they've usually been rejected
              on the usa end because of all the strings attached. although
              it would be nice to think some would have taken a anti-monarchist
              stand on principle and told the queen and her sodomite son to
              go behead themselves. --psb
              \_ there's no proof he's a sodomite.
                 \_ Yes, and the Royal Family denies everything.  Everything,
                    including the bit about the sheep and the crazy glue and
                    your dead great aunt.  Full denial.  Never happened.
                    \_ if only my aunt really were dead....
2003/11/12 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:11035 Activity:nil
11/11   Support the president!
        \_ support his impeachment!
        \_ Support from the commercial sector seems stronger.
2003/11/7 [Politics/Domestic] UID:29623 Activity:nil
11/7    Another Republican victory.  Internet tax ban upheld for 5 more years.
        \_ right. republicans like Ron Wyden.  Good point.  This isn't a
           party issue, jackass.
2003/11/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:10976 Activity:high
11/7    http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1494600
        More proof that evil old dead rich white business people are out
        to destroy the left in this country.  I think we should raise taxes
        to match this amount in support.  It's only fair.
        \_ Governor Wilson, is that you?
           \_ Yes, I've kept my account all these years after graduation.  I've
              never forgotten my CS root at Cal.  --GW
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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