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 2004/2/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12342 Activity:nil 2/21 Bin Laden surrounded and near capture? "The timing of that order will ultimately depend on President Bush [...] Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for this election". http://www.sundaytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,9353,8752173-28778,00.html \_ "The Sunday Express, known for its sometimes colourful scoops..." Nuff said. Oh what the hell: "The article says bin Laden's movements are monitored by a National Security Agency satellite." Can you imagine the outcry if Bush waited to get OBL for political gain? Then again, the dems will accuse him of it anyway... \_ bah! bin laden was captured by Kurds a month ago, turned over to the Americans in secret, and is being held until closer to the election for some Jessica Lynch style theatrics. Just you wait and see. \_ those kurds sure do get around! \_ well they DO live there! \_ uhm, no. the kurds do not live on the border of pakistan and afghanistan. maybe a few visited using a good deal from http://priceline.com or something but not as a people. \_ are you, by any chance, related to our president? \_ Hmm: "The Sunday Express, known for its sometimes colourful scoops..." Could be, but many of the British papers are total rags. \_ It's being reported elsewhere as ell. \_ Very similar to the NYT quality reporting the last decade or two. \_ Whatever, freeper.
 2004/2/18 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12298 Activity:nil 2/18 Profiling is useless against modern terrorists: http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/1336 \_ The biometric scan now being done is really for creating a vast database of finger prints and photos. It's good for -- use your imagination. (Hint, the technology of faking fingerprints and faces is quite mature.)
 2004/2/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12207 Activity:nil 2/11 Excellent and disturbing report on the 9/11 commission's investigation and some unanswered questions: http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage1.asp
 2004/2/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12162 Activity:nil 2/7 Prediction: If the administration produces Osama bin Laden, dead or alive, before the election, it's all Bush. Otherwise, it's virtually a coin-toss, no matter who the Dems put up against him. \_ Bullshit. You're overestimating the attention span of the American public. It's *still* the economy, stupid. Right now that puts Bush in a very close tie with Random Democrat. If the economy really takes off, Bush'll be unbeatable, and if it really starts to go down, he's dead. Otherwise, it'll be close, barring another major terririst attack. Joe Sixpack has already forgotten who Bin Laden is. \_ bullshit? you just agreed with OP for the most part. --!op \_ Yeah, the Dems are betting on the short American attention span. \_ Er... both sides take it as a given... because it, unfortunately, is. \_ Or if Dubya's administration finds the WMD. \_ I give the Dem's one chance in four. -Berkeley Liberal. \_ It's Bush's to lose with Kerry as the guy and his only reason people/dems are voting for him is they think he can beat Bush not that they like him. That's not really inspiring. \_ Heh. Did you see Bush's inept performance on Meet The Press? He's toast. When even the National Review Online guys are calling him on his blather, he's in trouble. \_ The average voter isn't watching MtP, reading NRO, or a lot of other things you'd hope for. \_ Or at least he would be if the Dems could put up anyone who wasn't so increadibly LAME. In 2000 Bush could not have beaten anyone.... except Gore, King Stupid himself. Bush even keeps alienating his own voters. It's pathetic. \_ It wasn't just Bush who beat Gore in 2000. It was the Bush/Nader dynamic duo. \_ Go Ralphie go!!!!!! Nader 2004! There is only one liberal ego big enough to keep a republican in office. \_ Ralph isn't liberal. Ralph is for the people which Gore sure as hell isn't. \_ Nader just illustrated what a buffoon Gore was. \_ Gore couldn't even take his own 'home' state. That is hardly Nader's fault. \_ Kerry's not as lame as Gore was, but he shares a lot of the attitude and personality problems. Their anti-Bush hype machine only works against people who already hate Bush. I'm a liberal and Kerry is not a likable person to me. I've gotten used to Bush enough that I don't really care anymore whether someone like Kerry beats him or not. \_ Kerry is going to lose for the same reason Bob Dole lost in 96. They said it was "Dole's turn". That's no reason to put a guy up for office. They now say "Kerry has the best chance to beat Bush" which is also a lame reason to put him up. The independent voters who make and break candidates don't share the "anything but Bush" feeling so if the only thing Kerry has going for him is the "he's not Bush and can beat him" thing, then well, he can't. Kerry also has an inconsistent 35 year Senate record to pick apart. This is going to be uuuuugly.
 2004/2/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:29782 Activity:very high 50%like:29780 2/4 Conservatives -- what two issues do you really care about? \_ a. keeping my money b. making more money \_ you are making conservatives sound very selfish \_ of course he is. he isn't a conservative. he's trolling. \_ 1. Making sure my money is spent how I want it to be spent. 2. Reducing government services/intervention/size to those the government does best (e.g. defense) \_ I disagree with #1. Tax money should be spent wisely and for what helps the nation, not on a new pool in your backyard. Or better yet, my backyard. --conservative \_ Maybe I feel strongly that a new pool helps the nation. I think deciding what "helps the nation" is at the core of this question and liberals have a different idea than conservatives do. I don't think a lot of "helpful government programs" help the nation. \_ your feelings have nothing to do with it. you won't be able to demonstrate a new pool helps anyone but you. I agree that various social programs only destroy those they are intended to help. \_ How about the Interstate system? Are you opposed to that, too? \_ Built during the Commie Liberal Roosevelt New Dealism era. \_ The IState system improves commerce efficiency, so no. The welfare system destroys lives, so yes. Various tax credits and penalties are used to conduct government directed social engineering which IMO is the biggest crime possible in this context. \_ a new pool will increase overall GDP (by increasing consumption, and the pool maker will also consume and so on.. sort of like the multiplier effect.) Thus, a new pool might be helpful to society. \_ no, because the final product has no value to society. if the pool was purchased with his own money then what you say would be true. but when purchased with tax dollars which otherwise would have had that multiplier effect in the economy, they are first filtered through the government waste system and what little is left is then multiplied. \_ So you are saying it's better to build a pool than to give the money to the wasteful government in the form of taxes. Exactly. If I pay some laborers $20K to build my pool I think I've done more for them than any government program would have. \_ 1. Promote traditional family values. Protect the family. 2. Protection of Life and Liberty (from conception to natural death) and the pursuit of happiness. \_ Isn't racism a traditional family value? \_ hint: I'm not white, or a WASP. \_ yes, it is, in white, black, hispanic, asian, and just about all other cultures. would you prefer breaking up all families because sometimes they do bad and stupid things? \_ No. But I'm pointing out what a vague and meaningless term "family values" is in politics. What, specifically, do you expect politicians to do about family values? They like to talk about it in elections but it sidesteps any debate over actual policies. In short, it's a load of bullshit. And historically speaking, liberals were the ones fighting for the rights of women and minorities. Maybe nowadays, family values is a euphemism for anti-gay, xtian fundamentalism. \_ killing people (born and unborn) is bad. What about those rights? And affirmative action is not the only way to help minorities. \_ 1. Only allow the traditional sexual position. 2. Only adult can and must be killed. \_ Bad troll, no cookie. Liberals -- what two issues do you really care about? \_ 1. Universal health care and education. \_ Provide a service with infinite costs like healthcare and you'll get everyone over-using it to the point that everyone gets near- zero care. Education is a different story since the costs are limited and predictable with long term benefits for all of society. 2. I'm very glad to see a good number of the candidates talk about fair trade and tax incentives to keep jobs here. If we're going to play in a "global" marketplace, all players must play fair. --scotsman \_ They're talking but once elected it'll be outsource as usual. \_ I'm being naive but I thought conservatives were free traders? \_ Did I say free? Check your prescription. --scotsman \_ what does fair mean exactly? I'll raise my tariffs to match yours? \_ It means "I actually care about how you treat your workers" \_ how does this translate into policy? \_ Getting Bush out of office. \_ is this an "issue"? \_ only if you're an extremist leftist motd wacko. the rest of country is more concerned with jobs, healthcare, and defense \_ I bet 1/3 of the Democratic party would disagree with you. You might think that 10% of the country is extremist left whackos, but you are starting to stretch the definition a bit there. Many of them are more partisan than leftist, anyway. \_ you are right. kind of like how all the republicans want clinton out no matter what. \_ "all" and "no matter what" are incorrect. \_ 1. Making sure the most helpless in society, especially children, are adequately taken care of. \_ isn't that what *PARENTS* are for? who else? \_ Parents have the first responsibility, but in many -- ilyas cases they fail to do their job. What then? \_ Take the kids away and sterilise the parents. There are a lot of people who can't have kids and would take much better care of them. It Takes A Village, remember? 2. Keeping the rights of the minority safe from being trampled on by the majority. \_ including free speech rights for those who disagree with you, right? \_ In my case, absolutely. I am an ACLU member. \_ mmmmm, yeeaah... I like the concept of the ACLU and what they claim to stand for but they don't always, but overall I'm glad they're there than not at all. \_ I was an ACLU member once. Then they sold my name to a bunch of mailing lists. \_ 1. Protection of civil liberties \_ Where were the Democrats during the Civil Rights movement, huh? Blocking Highschool doorways so black kids couldn't enter. \_ Didn't Johnson sign the Civil Right's Bill and send federal troops to Alabama to desegregate the schools? 2. Socialized Medicine \_ what is the conservative way of dealing with Medicine? - not a liberal \_ not going EU/Canadian style and destroying the system. \_ Let the free market handle it. \_ how would the free market handle it? What about those who can't afford it? \_ I believe there should be a minimal level of health care provided to all citizens such as shots for kids, and 911 emergency care but I don't think we should all be paying for some of the things I've seen such as the$250,000 spent so far just in medical costs to keep a friend's near-brain dead child alive for the last 10 years. And then there's the $150,000 or so spent on other care. The child is non-functional, unable to speak at all, can almost crawl and doesn't recognise her own mother from a hole in the ground. None of this ever should have been allowed to happen. She should have been allowed to die at birth and would have with- out *amazing* amounts of top notch western medical care. How many kids could be helped with that$400k who can actually *use* the help? \_ 1. Equal rights under the law, civil liberties. \_ Where were the Democrats when the Civil Rights Movement was taking the nation? Blocking black kids from entering white high schools. 2. Promoting the welfare of the masses and egalitarian society. \_ You mean taking money from one group and giving it to another who hasn't done anything to earn it. Moderates -- what two issues do you really care about? \_ they care about nothing at all, that's what makes them moderates. \_ No, they just aren't fanatics. They don't have a pet agenda to push. So they listen to the yammering of both sides and want something in between. \_ They're mushy heads. How can they have been awake for the last however many years and still not have an opinion on so many topics which will send this country down very different paths in the years to come? Mushy heads. \_ They may like how things are or have views which don't all neatly fall into one column or the other. Most things end up being a compromise and therefore "moderate". \_ The key concept of compromise is no one likes it. I have no respect for people who prefer to compromise all the time instead of making something happen. Mushy heads. If they really believed in the status quo then they should be opposing both sides. They *do* have a pet agenda if you're correct. Since we don't see your version of moderates raising their voices in loud opposition to the extremes we must conclude they really don't care and are just a bunch of Mushy Heads. Message from OP: I'm not trying to troll. one of the reasons I have is to see whether the priorities of conservatives and liberals are very similar or very different. \_ Mr. OP, in my opinion the difference between conservatives and liberals isn't priorities (they are often the same), but that they view human rights differently. The set of human rights for a liberal is different from the set of human rights for a conservative. Hence the vehement opposition, etc. Rights are pretty basic stuff. -- ilyas \_ are there rights when it comes to economic issues? \_ Of course. For instance, a liberal might think everyone is entitled to healthcare. In fact, he might think this right trumps the property rights of others. A conservative thinks property rights are more important. It is in the specifics of what rights trump what other rights that the whole disagreement is rooted. In some sense, liberals and conservatives want the same thing (unless they are evil, or sleazy political scumbags) -- for people to be happy productive and free. But the devil's in the details. I think the ordering of rights is not entirely subjective, and there is one natural one that is 'right.' But some might say that's naive platonism. -- ilyas \_ we may have to make a distinction between the hardliners of each side versus the more moderate conservatives or liberals. \_ Still, I think the difference is the ordering of rights, and not something else. -- ilyas \_ This might be true for the difference between big business conservatives and liberals, but you have to read the bible to understand the religious conservative types. They aren't really interested in the concept of "rights" at all. It is more a matter of salvation and saving souls to them. \_ Religious conservatives may not be interested in the concept of rights, but their position implicitly defines how they view rights. For instance, most religious conservatives have a very restrictive view of rights when it comes to homosexuality, same sex marriages/unions, etc. Even if their philosophical position had been \_ [ Hi, deleting other people's replies is not cool. ] \_ FU. I always use motdedit, unlike you apparently, who frequently overwrites my posts. reached by reading the bible, and not thinking about it a whole lot, it's still a position. Some religious conservatives can give a thoughtprovoking defense of their position, so it's not easy to dismiss them. -- ilyas \_ Are you agreeing me, or what? I am saying the differences are a lot more complex than just an "ordering of rights." Not everyone agrees that being happy and free is the goal of existence. \_ Ordering rights is a lot more complex than you think. In some sense, the whole of moral philosophy can be viewed as figuring out what human rights are, and how to order them. I will go out on a limb here, and suggest than people who don't want others to be happy and free are bad people. I try not to talk to bad people. -- ilyas
 2004/2/3 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12082 Activity:nil 2/2 So, within an hour of Gallup poll results appearing on CNN indicating Kerry or Edwards would beat Bush in a head-to-head matchup, a Homeland Security official leaks info that initial tests indicate ricin is found in a Senate office building? \_ Terrorists are hiding under the bed! Be afraid! \_ I thought it was an 'unidentified substance' as of 20 minutes ago. \_ Jesus Christ. I find 'unidentified substances' in my apartment all the time, yet my apartment terror alert never climbs above a sort of tealish color. Homeland Security is eventually going to get a lot more convincing, or else stage a terrorist attack themselves if they really want credibility. \_ Ok, they really said it was an 'unidentified white powdery substance which was still being analysed in the lab' which I figured was cocaine that some senator's boy dropped in the hallway by mistake on his way to his master.
 2004/2/3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12080 Activity:nil 2/2 Someone mentioned how that Kurdish thing didn't get much attention. How about the 250+ muslims who got killed in Mecca yesterday? As usual they got trampled in a stampede. \_ The 'Kurdish thing' is on CNN as a major headline. What more do you want, a guy going door-to-door? The incident in Mecca hasn't gotten nearly enough press though -- gotta agree with you there. \_ I just went to their web page and don't see it. I get a big pic of Sharon's face. I do see the Mecca story at the bottom. \_ Huh? It's still there. "Death toll climbs in Iraq suicide blasts..." http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/02/02/sprj.nirq.main/index.html \_ Not so obvious for your average American. I bet a whole bunch didn't even notice over the Super Bowl festivities. \_ Yeah, but see, the U.S. has a track record for abandoning the Kurds, and it seems we haven't gotten out of the habit yet \_ Except for the fact that this is major news in all the newspapers CNN and other cable TV and on the nets. No cookie. \_ uh, no. Please see ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v for deleted thread on this.
 2004/1/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12027 Activity:very high 1/29 Interesting. A spring offensive planned in Afghanistan near the Pakistani border, where Bin Laden is thought to be holed up. Nearly two years after the fact, and very close to the election. Eeeeenteresting. \_ You want wag the dog? Try an aspirin factory in the Sudan and 2 cruise missiles into a camel's ass which did nothing but let bin Laden know we can listen to his phone calls. Brilliant! \_ You want wag the dog? Try an aspirin factory in the Sudan and 2 cruise missiles into a camel's ass which did nothing but let bin Laden know we can listen to his phone calls. Brilliant! \_ motivations aside, don't you want to catch Osama? \_ Definitely want to see him caught, but the timing is so... interesting. \_ what if they found out more information just recently? \_ Could be. I'm not inclined to believe much that this Administration says, however. They've already proven \_ *laugh* nice troll attempt but we're long after that one. try again. no cookie. \_ Definitely want to see him caught, but the timing is so... interesting. \_ what if they found out more information just recently? they have little credibility. \_ consider how they stolen the election at first place, you would think people would of known better. \_ *laugh* nice troll attempt but we're long after that one. try again. no cookie. \_ you also don't want to fight during winter in Afghanistan \_ we invaded Iraq without "solid prove" of what exactly? What exactly is your missing point? \_ Once burned, twice shy. \_ Of course it couldn't be because they might have found where a bunch of al Qaeda training camps are. Nope, nope, nope, let's assume evil first until proven otherwise and then just assume assume evil first until proven otherwise and then just assume evil anyway. \_ I agree with you. evil anyway. \_ I agree with you. \_ we invaded Iraq without solid prove. And that is my point. Iraq poses no immediate threat, and it has drained resources away from the real issues. \_ we invaded Iraq without "solid prove" of what exactly? What exactly is your missing point? \_ Once burned, twice shy.
 2004/1/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12015 Activity:nil 1/29 Is there any way to have DSL in BA without getting screwed by SBC? I'm paying $30 for a phone line I don't use but I keep it for DSL. \_ You can call them and get them to take off a bunch of 'features' you don't need, like long-distance access, and switch to no free local calls and I think you can get it down to ~8/mo. BTW, that still will include 911 service, which is a good thing 'cause most cell phones don't have e911 service (and can't always get a signal either) \_ Speaking from (very bad) personal experience, NEVER call 911 on your cell phone. You will be put on hold, and wait...and wait... and wait...until either you already got ripped off, murdered, etc., or you've given up in disgust and tried to find a payphone (good luck!). --lye \_ My understanding is that most cells go straight to the Highway Patrol. If there's a big accident on a busy freeway in your calling area, then yeah -- cell 911 is pretty fucked up. I've called 911 on my cell 3 or 4 times, and I've only had one really bad experience, which isn't an ideal hit-ratio.  2004/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11917 Activity:low 1/23 Bin Laden captured? http://www.homelandsecurityus.com \_ Wow, a completely unconfirmed rumor. Of course, they might keep is secret if they captured him, for political reasons. Therefore, they MUST have captured him! \_ Can you see how this rumor formed? http://csua.org/u/5ow link:csua.org/u/5ov \_ an aspect left out of those two articles is that people traded up the dollar on the rumor, which then went back down after it was declared a joke.  2004/1/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11886 Activity:moderate 1/22 Oh dear: http://csua.org/u/5ng (boston.com) GOP senators spy on democrats using computers. was that so fucking hard? \_ GOP senator STAFF spy on dems. The staff who did it should be fired, and any senator who knew what was going on should be run out of office. \_ I'm sure there'll be a thorough investigation which will show that none of the senators knew anything about it and it was all rogue staffers who couldn't be identified anyway. \_ right...just like there's a thorough investigation into the CIA mole leak. \_ I hope you know I was being sarcastic... \_ Hrm... Bob Novak again... why am I not surprised? \_ Watergate? \_ Not a chance. No one cares anymore. If Nixon was in office today and did everything he was accused of and more nothing would come of it at all. \_ Its only a scandal if the Democrats do it. In the Hall of King Bush, the Democrats are the Court Jester. Or if you prefer Classical metaphors, they are the Christians to be thrown to the lions as entertainment for the masses. \_ anytime a newspaper says someting like: "staff exploited a computer glitch that allowed them to access ... without a password." it means "Some dumbass left it a null password" or there was No glitch, there just was no authentication required. As for the "if the Dems do it", If the Dems did it you would probably all be screeming about how the poor Dem staffers had their computer confiscated, just for browsing around an open system. \_ republican tech. geeks are smarter than dem. tech geeks: As the extent to which Democratic communications were monitored came into sharper focus, Republicans yesterday offered a new defense. They said that in the summer of 2002, their computer technician informed his Democratic counterpart of the glitch, but Democrats did nothing to fix the problem \_ Read further, young troll: Other staffers have denied that the Dems were alerted to the problem. \_ I had already read further, and your tiny bite is not left my trolling urges satisfied. Damn you for your interference in my troll. -not even a republican  2004/1/22 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11884 Activity:nil 1/22 Oh dear: http://tinyurl.com/25pny \_ asshole, if you shorten, say what the website is. \_ Sorry for posting a non-work-safe link. It's porn, porn, porn. Now eat the peanuts out of my steaming shit and shut your miserable festering cakehole, you inbred filthy stinking son of a shit-reeking alley whore. -John 2018/10/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular  10/17  2004/1/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11763 Activity:nil 01/12 If profiling is shown to be very effective in finding terrorists, will you still oppose it? \_ profiling, approaching and interrogating is fine, but encampment or imprisonment is not \_ How do you propose there be an interrogation without some form of confinement? Ask them to show up each day at 9am? \_ ie: asking questions. if they don't show up to the interview , they are suspects. \_ at least they get free health care  2004/1/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11710 Activity:very high 1/7 More rights removed: http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html \_ Happy New Year! \_ Whiner. What's wrong with this? It just makes official what has always go on anyway. \_ Why do you hate America? Oh, yes, it says here in your file that you're a fifth column saboteur working for the terrorists. \_ I don't hate America. What a stupid waste of bits. Here's my genius quality counter punch: Why do you hate America? Oh, yes, it says here in your file that you're a fifth column saboteur working for the terrorists. How cool is that? I've just repeated what you said and it applies equally well! That is to say, it doesn't apply at all to either of us. \_ So basically what you're saying is, its okay that our privacy is being violated, since we're law abiding citizens, what do we have to fear, etc. etc. etc.? I thought the motd was teeming with libertarians, not authoritarians. \_ I never said any such thing. I said they're already doing it and have been for years. This just makes it official and publicly known. You invented the rest of that and put it in my mouth. I'm neither libertarian or authoritarian. I'm pragmatic. \_ They've been doing this for years, so its okay? First of all, I don't see how that justifies it, and second of all, how the hell do you know about it? I consider myself a reasonably informed person and this is the first I've heard of the FBI having carte blanche to investigate your every financial move without any warrant or justification. So either you've got a tinfoil hat on, and are convinced the government is always out to get us, or you're just pulling something out of your ass to try to justify something inexcusable. \_ The motd is really good at telling me what it thinks I believe lately. I suspect this is the same person each time. I'll explain again. I do not believe the anyone is out to get me or most of the rest of us. I do not own a tinfoil hat. I do believe that the government has been able to acquire almost any information it wants about most of us for a very long time. It is just a case of "why bother?". I'm not the tinfoil hat guy here. I don't think anyone would waste even a moment of cpu time checking my financial records (or yours either) because we're both complete and total nobodies. I've met real life active duty federal agents. The kind that shoot people and then check the corpse for ID. They're not like us. They don't care about us. I'm not at all concerned these people are prying into my (or your) financial or any other records. My only concern is if they confuse me for someone else on the street that that'll check the ID on my corpse instead of asking for it at gun point. These people have existed long before Bush was even born so don't even go there. You're totally naive if you think all government evil started when GWB was inaugurated. \_ thinking that all the people on the motd with similar opinions are the same person is a sign of paranoia. watch the motd for a couple hours if you care. there are lots of people from all corners of the political spectrum here, many of whom probably respond to your posts in similar ways. for instance, I have posted nothing on today's motd other than this, but agree with everything the guy arguing with you has said so far, and also think you're a paranoid idiot. \_ You're right, this is not just a GWB thing. Your comment about this not being new, and that we shouldn't get bothered about it is fallacious-- it is _new_ in that it is now no longer covert, and we should be bothered about it because this makes it so much easier for the innocent (like you) to get mistakenly dragged into the fray based solely on any given FBI Agent's suspicion. I know FBI agents, too, and I know that most are not bad. There are some, however, whose bad side I never want to get on. The potential for abuse is so great that the power does not need to exist.  2003/12/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11574 Activity:kinda low 12/23 Another fine Republican bigot: http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1028&page=NR \_ WHY DONT YOU GO USE YOUR TI-85 LIKE THE REST OF THE TERRORISTS??!! \_$2 million more to fund terrorism, alright!
 2003/12/23 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11568 Activity:nil 12/22 Is this for real? http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/lonegunmen.html \_ why do you think they killed off the lone gunmen? \_ Who's to say the terrorists weren't x-files fans, and got the ideas from the TV show? \_ It would probably take more than five months to plan this. \_ This plot device has been used in a number of books and movies over the years, some with variations like chemical weapons on board. How d'you think Jack Ryan became president? \_ It also has been mentioned as a threat in various official documents over the years. The poeple who compose intelligence like this are geeks like us. It's the morons who read and interpret the intelligence who are the problem.
 2003/12/18-20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11516 Activity:nil 12/18 Padilla to be given civil trial: http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/18/padilla.case/index.html \_ It might go to the Supreme Court. That would be great, if it did. Even if they rule in Dubya's favor, the dissenting argument will surely have something like: "When the U.S. government interned Americans of Japanese descent in the interest of 'national security' after the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, it was wrong then; and in this post-9/11 world ..."
 2003/12/15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:11460 Activity:high 12/15 So I figure they'll time it this way: Saddam now to throw the early Dem primaries into shambles, Osama Bin Forgotten around July just in time to prep and edit capture footage for the Republican National Convention, and then probably some WMDs in October to put the final nail in the coffin. Anyone want to lay bets? Get them in soon, I'm moving to Germany. \_ America - love it or leave it. Glad you'll pick the latter \_ Maybe I'll move to one of those industrialized countries with single-payer health care and a murder rate that's not horrid.-!op \_ Maybe we will. And maybe we'll finally wake up and make you bloodsuckers leave instead. \_ I bet you're one of those morons who parrots the phrase "real americans" to refer to yourself and the rest of your cross-burning sister-marrying illiterate family. You are the sheep. And when the liberals leave no one will protect you from us, your corporate masters. So go, liberals! I want to sell fat and plastic to fuckwits like this guy without having to settle lawsuits every five minutes.
 2003/12/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Military] UID:11441 Activity:very high 12/12 http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-12-02-our-view-usat_x.htm Doesn't it seem kind of strange to you that terrorist are allowed to buy guns in America. \_ I'm more struck by a college-educate American reading USA Today. \_ I am impressed by your educate. By the way, it is 2 cups to a pint, 2 pints to a quart, and 4 quarts to a gallon. A cup is 8 fluid ounces. A pound is 16 ounces, which has nothing to do with fluid ounces. How much longer before my Cal degree is worth the same as one from CSU?
 2003/12/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11408 Activity:moderate 12/10 Real terrorist go unreported in the press. I guess white people don't rate news coverage: http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm \_ I LOVE GOVERNMENT. Politicians, faceless bureacrats and and big-government are my savior. They should have been immolated like Waco. \_ Dude wasn't there some guy in Oakland with a bazooka? i bet that didn't make big national news either. Some Wack jobs in texas with some guns, a pipe bomb and some HCL don't constitute a credible terrorist threat, it just makes them Crazy Texans. (let me tell you something else, they ain't the only ones). It's not a conspiracy, the tri-lateral commission didn't tell the big news outlets not to run it. It just isn't that big a deal. Now the fact that 14 cops when into a high school with guns drawn and drug sniffing dogs and start handcuffing kids and CAN'T find any drugs!, now that's surprising, that's news. (from same site: http://www.thememoryhole.org/policestate/stratford-raid.htm I can see the headlines now: "Local High School Doesn't Have any Drugs." Local Stoner was said to remark "I tried to tell them, 'it's been bone dry for like days. I've been trying to score and there's just no goods around for like all week' but they just threw me to the ground and like acted like they were going to shoot me, it was a total bummer." \_ I LOVE GOVERNMENT. Politicians and big-government are my savior. They should have been immolated like Waco.
 2003/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11380 Activity:high 60%like:11346 12/9 Neocons pre-emptively kill six more future terrorists. Go Bush! http://csua.org/u/57q \_ but the Precogs say that they'll grow up to be terrorists.
 2003/12/8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:11349 Activity:nil 12/7 No Child Left Behind http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3298945.stm
 2003/12/7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:29696 Activity:high 12/6 Those dead children deserved it! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1035432/posts \_ so are the children died in Nuclear and Fire bombing in WW2 \_ Learn english, fucker
 2003/12/7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:11346 Activity:high 60%like:11380 12/7 Bush regime pre-emptively kills 9 future terrorists: http://csua.org/u/567 \_ Yeah, he knew they were little kids while sleeping in the White house, mentally took control of the A-10s, mentally imagined the Mavericks taking them out. Oh pluz! Why don't you say the Clinton regime took out two Chinese "spies" in the Serbian campaign while you are at it?! \_ What happened to taking responsibility for your actions? I thought that was a Conservative virtue. I guess not a Neocon one. \_ Yeah but you think we shouldn't even be in Afghanistan.
 2003/11/24 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:29665 Activity:very high 11/24 Patriot Act II surreptitiously passed via Congressional spending bill http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,61341,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 \_ Why do you hate America? \_ and why wouldnt it be? \_ Oh, FOAD, you lousy troll.
 2003/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11092 Activity:nil 11/15 Iraq's al Qaeda links: http://tinyurl.com/v2r5 (weeklystandard.com) \_ you may find this site useful: http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM it's a news site roughly as objective and mainstream as the Weekly Standard. \_ of course there was a link. it's called "enemies." \_ so why isn't this on CNN instead of just a conservative web site? also, "top secret" memos usually don't get leaked the author of the memo is also a dyed in the wool neocon http://middleeastinfo.org/article701.html \_ Doh! DOD STATEMENT ON NEWS REPORTS OF AL-QAIDA AND IRAQ CONNECTIONS http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20031115-0642.html So the memo is real but it is raw data and draws no conclusions. \_ "News reports that the Defense Department recently confirmed new information with respect to contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq in a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee are inaccurate." \_ But everyone knows that the DoD is full of Godless Commuinists that just want to run down GWB, while the Weekly Standard is an objective newspaper that only prints The Truth and is Fair and Balanced.
 2003/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Finance/Investment] UID:11009 Activity:high 11/10 American Consumerism: Let us honor the veterans during veteran's day. let us celebrate by shopping for clothes! \_ Or better yet, shop for some American Gold Eagle gold coins from the US mint: http://www.goldinfo.net/gvs.html \_ Every other important day has been turned into a lame shopping event. Why not VDay, too?
 2003/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:11007 Activity:high 11/10 Sigh...If only those votes could have been recounted... http://www.moveon.org/gore/speech.html \_ Does no one else see the irony of a site called "Move On" is carrying a speech from Gore whining about Election 2000? \_ This speech isn't about Election 2k. Does no else see the irony of opinionated windbags on the motd that post about URLs without looking at them? \_ Sigh, if only Gore had pushed for a statewide recount instead of cherry picking heavily Democratic districts.... Had he pushed for that on day one instead of trying to be clever, there wouldn't have been any Constitutional questions to raise. \_ They were... and in every recount by the major media outlets Bush WON. Sour grapes I suppose, but don't let the rule of law get in your way. \_ Except for all the ones where he didn't... I guess that can be true if you're very selective about how you define "major", huh? Did they discuss the last-minute disenfranchisement of 90,000 black voters in those nicely impartial major media reports? Don't let facts get in your way. \_ They could not identify one, not one. If they could you better believe it would plastered over the entire front page of every newspaper. Please, give me any name. There was a commission that investigated this, they found nothing. And please, don't give unsubstantiated demagoguery by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. The irony here is that is all of these purported districts the election was run Democrats. \_ Cathy Jackson. Donnise DeSouze. Angenora Ramsey. That enough? If you want more, read http://digital.library.miami.edu/gov/voting.html \_ The report was very damning of the Republicans: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/06/08/florida.vote \_ The rolls are statewide, but nice try. Care to name your sage commission or maybe make up more stuff? \_ Read the report, did you even bother to read it??? They give no accounts of individuals who wanted to vote but were unable, NOT ONE. Just anecdotal evidence blah blah blah. Here's the worst they can say from the abstract: "Potential voters confronted inexperienced poll workers, antiquated machinery, inaccessible polling locations, and other barriers to being able to exercise their right to vote." \_ I read the entire report and I agree with the CNN summary of it, not yours. \_ Then please, give me the name of one of the 90,000. Just one is all I ask. I'm not talking about someone who was too stupid to fill out the ballot properly, rather some one who was prevented from voting. \_ Keep begging you racist right wing fascist! We won't give up one, not one victim for you to hunt down and destroy! \_ So since you cant produce one you resort to thinly veiled threats. Ah yes, the Left. Nice display of reason and rational thought. Let me see if I understand your argument: the Democrat constituency in these districts are too stupid to fill out votes properly. Nefariously, the Democrat controlled canvasing boards in these districts purposely undercounted the said votes to hurt Gore. Is this your contention? Do you have a personal stake in this... were you one the said voters? I just don't understand. \_ http://csua.org/u/4y7 includes five. Are you really a leftist pretending to be a dumb right winger? \_ Even a casual google search turns up dozens. Johnny Jackson Jr, is one a retired cleric. \_ Did these three people try to vote? This is not disenfranchisement, it is a clerical mistake. Even the article admits more whites were removed than blacks. Sorry try again. Somehow it seems you guys still came out ahead. Hundreds of felons cast votes illegally http://csua.org/u/4y8 \_ Not even close to true. A full recount of Florida would have given the state to Gore: http://democrats.com/view.cfm?id=2300 But I guess the New York Times and Miami Herald don't qualify as "major" in your book, right? \_ LOL your article contradicts itself. Somehow every newspaper they list lied in its headline?? From the article: "And why did the New York Times report: "An Analysis of Florida Balloting Favors Bush"" Even the leftwing NYT disagrees with you. \_ "Leftwing NYT"? You crack me up. Read the NYT article. NYT is mildly left of center, at best. Any publically traded corporation with billions in revenue is never going to be left wing, but you are such an extremist, you don't realize that. Thanks for reminding me of the 2000 rip-off. I am going to go donate another $500 to the Dean campaign.  2003/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10986 Activity:high 11/7 Pvt. Lynch upset about the filming and portrayal of her rescue. http://salon.com/news/wire/2003/11/07/lynch_portrayal/index.html \_ this is controversial because?? \_ Aren't you a little upset that the government fabricated a nice media story about a dangerous midnight special forces rescue while tacitly admitting that the situation was safe enough to have a CAMERAMAN there? \_ The camera was held by a special forces guy, not someone from the NYT. Feel better now? Or just less ignorant? \_ Obviously it was a special forces guy. Why did he have it? Was it to protect his squad, or just to get American hearts pumping proud patriotic blood? It reminded me of Wag the Dog-- 8 macho americans storm a dangerous terrorist hospital and rescue the pretty blonde princess from the axis of evil... and we've got VIDEO! \_ because they film a lot of stuff for both training and how-can-we-improve purposes. if you weren't so anti- military you might understand how it works. \_ Which is of course why we see so much footage of bombed out schools and dead soldiers on the evening news. I'm not anti-military, I'm against the spin efforts the government is pushing. It's not fair to the american public and the soldiers themselves to release footage of a quasi-staged rescue but forbid releasing footage of military failures. \_ if you have to ask... \_ you're useless \_ 1. She didn't fight until the bitter end. Her gun was jammed. 2. Contrary to US media, she was not mistreated after her capture. \_ interestingly, in today's chron they're reporting there is evidence of sexual assault in her capture. Article Titled "POW Lynch was raped by Iraqi Captors, biography says" \_ [Graphic detail censored to keep motd work-safe.] \_ one of the few news worthy items got censored? for work safeness? so its ok for your boss to see the junk on the motd on your screen wasting company time and resources but not if it refers to a soldier's anal rape at the hands of her barbaric captors? \_ They lied about WMD. They lied about her going down fighting. They lied about circumstances of her rescue. Could they be lying about her having been raped? \_ not mistreated? so get anally raped by one or more Iraqis doesn't count as mistreatment? there's a human rights violation investigation going on since shortly after the government fell. The WP misreported. Bush nor any other admin figure said she went down fighting. \_ Yea, some military doctors says some of her wounds are unlikely to be caused by the Humvee crash. She herself remembers nothing except that she was treated well throughout her captivity. \_ They're lying about her not being raped, too! Those bastards!  2003/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10841 Activity:nil 10/29 New Republican policy on Iraq "just mow the whole place down" http://www.thehill.com/news/102903/gopunity.aspx  2003/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:10611 Activity:high 10/11 Not that TV is a great source of news and facts, but it brought my attention to the following issue covered by a BBC special when I was in Hong Kong. Do any of you (Bush supporters, especially) realize that we have been kidnapping people (i.e. without proper extradite proceedings) from over 3 continents and locking them up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, without charging them with a crime, denying them access to lawyers, without providing any judicial oversight whatsoever, and trying them in a kangaroo court set up by a military commission? \_ Soon everyone will know the TRU7H tnx to MIT: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994246 \_ we don't really hear about this on mainstream news, but I can assure you that everyone in Europe does. What happened to the human rights that we've been talking about? \_ Yes, I'm perfectly aware and didn't need to watch HK BBC to find out like it's some BushCo Conspiracy to hide it from the American people. As a "Bush supporter, specifically", my response is two fold: 1) so what? 2) get your facts straight, there haven't been any trials and there won't ever be. --Evil BushCo Republican Conspirator \_ so what? do you have a conscience? Guantanomo Bay is a legal blackhole; 35+ have attempted suicide so far. We don't know what is going on in there. There may even be a torture chamber. Do you realize that the difference between terrorists and non-terrorists lies not in their beliefs, but in the methods with which they carry out their goals? If we deny them their right to fair trial, if we end up torturing people who are innocent, then what is the difference between US and THEM? \_ What the US was *intended* to be and what it *is* and has been since the 60's are very different places. Why pretend? If you want the America the FF promised us "if we could keep it" then you should be deeply disappointed in what you've had for 40 years or more. G.Bay is just one more example of the US involving itself in foreign affairs when we really should have packed up our bags and left the rest of the world to rot after WWII. Actually, this reminds me of a PC game from the early 90s called "Balance of Power". After numerous attempts to crush the Russians with aggresive foreign policy which usually lead to my downfall or nuclear war, I racked up an off the charts high score by pulling back all troops and all foreign aid money from everywhere and doing nothing for my 8 years in office. I wonder if the writers did that intentionally or that's really the way the world is.... And yes I know the world isn't a video game, so don't bother. It was an aside. \_ Embittered? No hope? Then take your nihilist punk ass out back and blow your head off so the rest of us can get on with trying to make the world a better place. \_ I'm not at all embittered and certainly not a nihilist. I'm a realist and I don't pretend that we still follow the FF's ideals. This country is nothing like they intended and never will be again so long as idealists such as yourself only choose the bits and pieces of what they wanted while discarding all those annoying bits you don't like. It's an all or nothing deal and we've already chosen nothing. Go read the Federalist Papers and see how your world view dramatically differs from the FF's. Punk ass? Suicide? Not even close. Someone like you actually making the world a better place? That is even less likely than me suiciding to "clear the way" for you to fuck things up even more with your selective minimalist version of the FF's dream and your arrogant and obnoxious "I'm holier than thou and making the world a better place!" bullshit. Tell me exactly what *you* are personally doing to "make the world a better place" and what you've accomplished so far besides sloganeering and being a self righteous twit. --E. BC. C. \_ Sure. Sign your csua user name, and I'll gladly email you with my list of contributions. \_ You should be proud of your great contribuations to humanity. Please share with us all. \_ Ah, I see that we are both of us trolls. \_ No, I'm not. But since you are you can go away now. Bye. \_ What happened to proper use of English? \_ aside from attacking my language skills, do you have anything valid to say? or are you the type who thinks that anything Bush does is righteous? \_ Ok, how about some proof that we kidnapped anyone? \_ Not only did we kidnap people, but rightfully so. Fuck the terrorists. The ones in GB are lucky we didn't take care of them the way the Russians do and start excuting their family members. --Evil BushCo Conspirator \_ what human rights have we been talking about? arguably, some humans really should be treated like animals though. but yeah, bush is a moron anyway. \_ Might makes Right. \_ That's always been true. \_ Virtually all of those people in the camp somehow ended up in US custody without legal extradite proceeding. So, by UN convention, we are kidnapping them to Guantanamo Bay. Not even American lawyers have access to them because GB is not considered a soverign territory of the USA. \_ Some body delete this thread before me Engrish become so bad. \_ Censoring is english guantanmo bay hong news is yes, lah! \_ Yes, we kidnapped them but not by UN anything. The UN is a powerless and meaningless coffee chat parlor house and thank god because the last thing the freedom loving West needs is all those self appointed third world military dictators (who are a majority in the UN) getting any real power on the world stage. \_ there was a time I vividly remember when we blamed German citizens who turned a blind eye towards what was going on in the concentration camps. It's interesting that most of our own citizens have turned a blind eye towards what is going on within our own government while critizing other citizens for doing the same thing. \_ I didn't realise anyone here was old enough to remember the 1930s, much less remember them vividly. Seriously, I find your comparison to Nazi Germany highly offensive. Rounding up a few hundred foreign terrorists with criminal backgrounds is not in any way comparable to the mass displacement, loss of property, and finally mass murder of 6+ million Jews, plus countless Gypsies and an unknown number of other German "undesirables". Shame on you. \_ Do you deny we have turned a blind eye to G.Bay, though? We have absolutely NO IDEA what is happening there. We don't know WHO is there. They have no legal recourse. The comparison to Nazi Germany, while highly charged, has a valid premise which you ignored. \_ No, it doesn't and I didn't ignore it. It's sickening and wrong as I said. But since you're so dense and have apparently never seen the bodies or the 'survivors' of the camps once the Allies showed up, I'll explain it to you: In the Nazi camps, they took their own citizens by the millions and those of 'undesirable' racial and other status from surrounding conquered nations, took everything they owned, put them in cattle cars where many died on their way to the camps, shot a bunch of arrival until they decided bullets were too good for them and 6 million bullets would be very expensive so they gassed them to death and tossed the bodies in ovens because burial is time and space consuming and hey they were only jews and other trash so who cares anyway. The 'survivors' such as they were underwent horrendous medical 'experiments' akin to what a cruel 5 year old does to captured butterflies, except these were real people. Someone's mother, father, someone's sister or brother, a son or daughter. They were all someone' neighbor. Those who weren't cut open, burned, frozen, poisoned, or murdered in some other way were left staving down to skeletons. Most were so close to death from starvation when the Allies showed they couldn't stand. I have no sympathy for foreign criminal terrorists getting rounded up and shot. I certainly have none for foreign criminal terrorists who get rounded up and sent to summer camp where they get coddled, are allowed to pray three times a day, get tax payer funded Muslim holy men to visit them, lead them in prayers, and oh yeah, betray this country along the way. Your comparison is sickening and I categorically deny there is any similarity whatosever between the two cases. Shame on you twice for your ignorance and your returning to insist on spreading your ignorance a second time. \_ Imagine just how much of all of this could have been avoided if the people had stood up and denounced the Nazi concentration camps. No, Camp X-ray is not a a genocidal concentration camp. It is, however, a denigration of human rights, and as such forms the top of a slippery moral slope that could one day lead to wholesale incarceration of a people simply because of their race/creed. We have an opportunity to nip this in the bud before it becomes more of an atrocity, and we should do so. \_ With rights comes responsibilities. People who go around blowing shit up have yielded those rights. I see no slippery slope. Any people or culture or nation that won't defend itself from enemies without or enemies within is doomed. By sitting on our hands crying about the human rights of terrorists we are committing suicide as a people. \_ Agreed! But _alleged_ terrorists should have the same rights to defend themselves against the charges as any other accused criminal. Prove that our system works by convicting the terrorists in our criminal courts, or admit that the system is flawed, reform it, and THEN try them. Military tribunals and an opaque basis for incarceration will not convince anyone that we are right. \_ Would you give someone a nice friendly public trial if it meant the prosecution would have to give up sources, witnesses, intelligence, methods and other info that would allow your enemy to keep you from successfully infiltrating their groups and preventing future attacks? I wouldn't. These aren't standard civil criminal cases. We're at war. The enemy is well funded, dispersed, lives among us and our allies, hates us for what we are and is willing to send their children to die in the name of their god in an effort to destroy us and convert the world to their religion. I'll take a pass on the FBI style civilian criminal justice trial, thanks. \_ When the FBI busts a mafia figure, do they have to give up everyone of their sources to the public? I think not. You're too quick to embrace breaching the Bill of Rights in an attempt to catch the baddies without looking at the less-civil-rights-infringing alternatives that already exist. \_ Actually, yes, that's what the witness protection program is all about. \_ Ridiculous. This is not all of their sources. A good deal remains undercover. \_ This is the kind of attitude that leads to excess. Is there anything you would not support in your endless, unwinnable "war" against an invisible enemy that lurks amongst us? \_ People use this 'Orwell argument' a lot. The trouble is, in Orwell's world, the invisible enemy was made up. In our case the invisible enemy is real. Do you honestly believe all the happy terrorist cells are made up by the government so they can take your liberties away? Yes it sucks, but this is the price of being successful, people will always be gunning after you and your way of life. \_ btw, you should use the word "hypocrisy" here. -MOTD GRAMMAR GOD  2003/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10599 Activity:nil 10/11 Dick Cheney Was Right http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/238dkpee.asp \_ I can smell the troll from here! \_ doesn't fit your world view so it must be a troll. typical. we know that when you've got nothing to say you always resort to the thoughtless "it's a troll!" response. why bother even posting anymore? we already know you've got no response and nothing to add. RTFA and you'll see real facts. Hurts, huh? !op \_ "We don't know," said Cheney today. On March 16, just before the war started, Vice President Cheney said, "We know that [Saddam Hussein] has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the Al Qaeda organization." To bad he didn't tell the truth back in March, eh? \_ Did you read the article? It addresses your concern. They were two different questions. The question in the article was about Sept. 11. What was the question for your quote. You're being intellectually dishonest. \_ tjb? what are you doing here?!? \_ standard motd leftist: if you can't dispute the facts, insult the speaker \_ Typical motd child: Doesn't know jack doodly about the poster, so he must be on the Other team (since ALL politics can be trivially divided into two teams). \_ Good try. Take another shot? \_ Do you even know who tjb is? \_ yup. and? \_ You're way too serious or take yourself way too seriously. Lighten up, chum. \_ leftists like Bill O'Reilly? \_ BO'R is an entertainer, not a politcal figure. \_ Standard motd rightist: post uninteresting opinion peice from right wing magazine, then claim that it is indisputable "facts," and get all huffy and pious when people insult you. \_ Better to post something than just rant about the evil BushCo conspiracy and blindly write off the opposition without so much as a link, good or bad. I'm not the op but still no one has disproved anything in that URL at all. Just fired up the old "its a troll!" gun and ripped off a few shots into the dark.  2003/10/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10546 Activity:nil 10/8 http://csua.org/u/4nt Patroit Act made Watergate legal \_ Why use a plumber when you can use the FBI? \_ boy, you would think this would be bigger news. One would also think the FBI would be quick to defend themsleves and at least MAKE UP some charge against the mayor. "Hey, he's black, so we are pretty sure he's a cocaine addict". It looks very bad that they can't even say why the bug is there.  2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10493 Activity:moderate 10/6 This is a serious troll. Who thinks Israel's action is a little out of line? Maybe Cuba ought to fire a missile at Florida for there's a lot of anti-cuban people there. \_ No one in Florida is sending suicide bombers to Cuban cafes the last I checked. If you're going to troll, you need to start with a better premise. I salute your efforts, Young Troll, but ready for trolling, you are not. \_ Well, actually: http://www.nscuba.org/Docs/Terrorism/TerrorActs-1.html \_ And...there's been little more than "cause we said so" to indicate the camp was active or that Syria has been responsible for anything other than happening to be there. \_ Well...it's Florida...how about Mississippi? It's almost as close. Or Alabama. \_ "We'll try to stay cool and calm when Alabama gets the bomb!" \_ "Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defending the homeland." -GWB There Bush formally said it. Israel has a green light to do whatever it feels like and not feel bound by the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any other pesky constraints. Watch them nuke Damascus next. \_ How is this different from what they have been doing in the past? Israel has bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor into oblivion, invaded Lebanon, raided PLO's headquarters in Libya. What you see is a normal state of affairs in the middle east..  2003/10/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:10447 Activity:nil 10/3 "There is still some intense fighting to be done, especially out in the west," he said. "We should not be surprised if one of these mornings we wake up and ... there has been a major firefight with some casualties or a significant terrorist attack that kills significant numbers of people." \_ That's nice. Who said it and URLp? \_ Look up the quote on http://news.google.com. News sites have had a tendency to self-censor this quote. \_ Uh huh... so you can't even give us a name? Get the fuck outta here. No one has time to search for your random ass nameless quote. It's just not that interesting.  2003/9/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10264 Activity:nil 9/20 http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030919-105619-9614r.htm Poor bastard. BushCo wouldn't have nailed him if he wasn't Muslim.  2003/9/6 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:10103 Activity:high 9/6 Snopes caught red-handed trying to cover their ass when proven wrong! Ahahahah! http://shock-awe.info/archive/000858.php \_ who's snopes, and who cares? \_ myth-debunking website, often cited as an "authority" by fat sysadmins. \_ I know who/what snopes is but I agree: who cares? You seem to take this personally. \_ Just thought it was funny. So what do you care about? Weight loss products? \_ Oh no! A someone was wrong, and then they corrected themselves! we can never trust them on anything ever again!!  2003/9/3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:10051 Activity:nil 9/4 SUPREMACY BY STEALTH http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/974871/posts \_ Ugh. These people WANT a Pax Americana? I particularly like the dictum to "Emulate Second-Century Rome." Don't these guys remember what happened to Rome in the 4th century? \- R. Kagan isnt a dumb guy, but he's either sort of blinded by some of what he believes or uses a lot of stuff disingenuously. I havent had time to process the full article but his example where he talks about the Scililian Fiasco [search for Glyllipus] is totally ridiculous. Obvious, if you have any passing familiarity with Thucydides [which of course 90% of the readers wont]. [in a strage coincidence the real modern expert on this is Donald Kagan, who is another crazy right wing nut. note also the historian "Erich S. Gruen" R. Kagan refers to has an office in Dwinelle. one of berkeley's best lecturers. --psb \_ What's wrong with Pax Americana? Or Pax of any sort. \_ Cause there ain't no Pax in Pax Americana. -aspo \_ Pax Romana was somewhat mislabelled too. There always will be unhappy fringe elements in any empire. This does not mean the alternatives (i.e. bloody covert or overt conflicts between major rival powers) are better. -- ilyas \- 2nd century AD or BC? take your pick ... --psb BC: Cary \& Schullard describe the aftermath as follows: In other Greek towns they restored the rule of the wealthier classes, and they made Corinth safe against social revolution by razing it to the ground and selling its inhabitants into slavery.'' This was the hard edge to the vaunted {\it Pax Romana\/}. --National Identity Myths and the Roman People AD: [actually a little earlier, but written ~100] ... they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eagerness poverty and riches. To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a solitude and call it peace. --The Agricola, Speech of [CG]algacus The imperial destiny drives hard, and fortune has no longer any gift for us other than the disunion of our foes. --The Germania \_ White Man's burden... I heard that one before. \_ You prefer what? That muslim fanatics run the world? Someone is going to run the world whether you like it or not. I prefer America run it.  2003/8/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29415 Activity:insanely high 8/20 http://207.44.245.159/article3807.htm It is obviously time to give the Germans another ass-whipping. \_ um, this site will be taken down by the government in no time. Why do you think it has no domain name? -long live GWB \_ This was eye-opening. Thanks for posting it. \_ To what in particular do you disagree? with his stated facts? \_ 'Vorwaerts' is very closely affiliated with the Social Democratic Party. Their motto translates to "partisan, political, initiative". Draw your own confusions. -John political, initiative". Draw your own confusions. -John \_ You draw a vague comparison with a foreign political party and a motto... I'm ok with this, unless you believe you're making a point about something-- or are we supposed to follow "Social Democrats" to "Socialism" to "Communism" to "If you're aren't with us, you're with the terrorists"? \_ That article was published in 'Vorwaerts'. As a quasi-organ of the SDP, it is bound to have a slant. It's not a vague comparison. -John \_ When was the last time the biggest threat to freedom and security--both for you and the world--the US president and his world-- was the US president and his administration? The article has some very good points. \_ Draw your own conclusions.  2003/8/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:29346 Activity:high 8/14 The terrorists have won: http://images.mp3.com/rollingstone/content/2047188/Images/00331065.jpg \_ if i have absolutely no idea who those two chicks are or what this is about or why i should care, am i unhip? \_ Is that what I get when I die and go to heaven? \_ What is it? Company firewall blocking http://mp3.com \_ potential underaged Playboy Bunny Twins. \_ mary kate and ashley, h-h-h-h-ot \_ can't connect, mirror?  2003/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:29326 Activity:nil 8/12 Bush Planned 9/11 Attack! http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/911bush.html \_ Yes, and I am Osama Bin Laden.  2003/7/24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:29128 Activity:nil 7/24 I'd like to add another item to Germany's list of problems: idiocy. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23109558.htm The idea that 911 was some sort of US Government ordered attack especially after numerous previous attempts and statements by known terrorists is well beyond stupid. That enough people in the government could get together and pull this off without a leak is sheer insanity. That 20-30% of Germans feel this says they're either genetically defective or there's something in the water. Send in a UN Eco Squad to test the water immediately! Save the Germans from their own bad water supply before it's too late! \_ They're not idiots. They're just very...assertive as a whole and once they latch onto some notion, that's obviously fact. No more than any other country. -John \_ They latched on to the notion despite a huge body of evidence and history to the contrary. Brilliant. Did all the smart ones get weeded out in WWII? \_ a lot of germany does have pretty bad water. but i think there is value in the idea that the whitehouse influenced the attacks by providing hints. if you look at the New American Century, it doesn't sound like it's beyond those guys to do something like that. \_ influenced? Nonono, it says they believe the US Government planned and executed. \_ So what; 20% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth. -tom \_ Even if so, this is harmless. Germans thinking 911 was a US government conspiracy is not. \_ one stupidity doesn't justify or excuse another. \_ my point being, "people are stupid" is not specifically a German problem. -tom \_ stupidity is not a specific german problem, but it is a problem. and this particular german stupidity is dangerous and egregious. \_ yeah people are stupid in many places so it's ok!!!! you must work for the government. \_ this response indicates which side of the line you belong on. -tom \_ was there an insult in there somewhere? you can try harder than that. after lunch of course. \_ In addition 30% of Americans can't find Iraq on the maps and %68.22 of all statistics are made up ;) \_ There are 3 types of people in this world - those that can count and those that can't. \_ Americans being unable to find anything on a map has no bearing on anything. Germans thinking 911 was some bizarre US government conspiracy despite tremendous evidence to the contrary is dangerous because they make policy decisions and elect their leaders based on that stupidity which hurts us all. And no it isn't 68.22%. There are studies that show that 85% of all people who say some percentage of statistics are made up are making that up when we all really know it's only 38% of all statistics that are made up.  2003/7/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28918 Activity:very high 7/3 If the US can put out a$25 million reward for a hit on Saddam, why hasn't Osama Bin Laden put out a similar offer on eXtreme Elvis's head? Last time I read Bin Laden has a few hundred million in inheritance. I'd like to see Al-Jazeera broadcast something to that effect. eXtreme Elvis wanted dead or alive. $25 million in reward. \_ are you trying to get the secret service to confiscate Soda? - danh \_ Isn't it almost the 10th anniversary of the last \_ unfortunately Bush's head is worth shit. time the feds took Soda? What better way to commerate it? better politician than Bush will ever be. Offering a$25M reward for his head does nothing towards actually capturing him and \_ Supposedly Osama's not exactly swimming in money anymore. \_ unfortunately eXtreme Elvis's head is worth shit. \_ This coming from a person who supports a president whose head is empty. \_ Because the unfortunate truth is that Osama bin Laden is a far better politician than eXtreme Elvis will ever be. Offering a $25M reward for his head does nothing towards actually capturing him and makes him look craven in the Islamic world. Of course, he is playing to a domestic crowd, so he doesn't care. I wonder, does anyone think: "Osama bin Laden, Wanted Dead or Alive" plays well in middle America? I know it sounds good on a Freeper poster, but I think the average American just finds it childish. \_ You have far too much faith in the average American \_ you think wrong. \_ Because no one would admit to collecting the money. You'd make yourself an international pariah. Plus bin Laden's view of the war would be actions first, then rewarding your next of kin. \_ What did they think of Bush's "bring 'em on" statement regarding Iraqi attacks? What a boneheaded thing to say. I guess it's easy to talk shit when his ass isn't over there. \_ This thread made FBI-safe. Thank you for your participation.  2003/7/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28903 Activity:moderate 7/2 what's the siren for? \_ what siren? \_ for making loud noise? \_ Homeland Security warning siren. (I am not making this up.) -tom \_ Is there a terrorist act taking place? \_ No, it's just there to warn you that Homeland Security is taking place. \_ Can anyone watch Brazil and not think about our current "Homeland Security"? \_ yes.  2003/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:28616 Activity:low 6/3 DIY Cruise Missile: http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile \_ This looks like something nweaver would do. \_ obIPartiedW/Nweaver \_ nweaver has the motive (being disgruntled), the means, and the opportunity to do so. It's just a matter of time.  2003/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28511 Activity:moderate 5/21 After illegally using the homeland security department to hunt down the Killer Ds, all records of the hunt for the missing democrats are ordered destroyed before an investigation can get started. http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/5907697.htm \_ That's pretty sad. Of course, the so-called Killer D's should be removed from office, but so should any nitwit who ordered the destruction of records. \_ One set was hired, the other set elected. \_ Didn't I see this on alt.conspiracy.hate.hate.hate.bush?  2003/5/20 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28493 Activity:high 5/20 Headlines: 1. Warren Buffet criticizes no-taxes-on-dividends plan as laden with Enron-style accounting and implies "rich get richer" effect. 2. Homeland Security Dept. raises terror threat level from Yellow to Orange: Recent chatter suggests terrorists may be planning a major attack inside the U.S. Leading stories change from 1 to 2. Haven't we seen this before? \_ Warren Buffet and the other ultra wealthy of this country have their own interests in mind which differ vastly from the little people such as yourself. Can you do better than WB? \_ Good, I see your heuristics are at work! (no sarcasm) Now read his http://washingtonpost.com article: "Putting$1,000 in the pockets of 310,000 families with urgent needs is going to provide far more stimulus to the economy than putting the same $310 million in my pockets." \_ I don't believe a word the man says. You can quote WB all damned day. He and the other ultra wealthy are not a reliable source of economic advice for little people. They're so far beyond where we live they couldn't possibly understand and I doubt they care. \_ Gosh. Are you saying, that even though WB is saying, "I really don't need a tax cut. People poorer than me needa tax cut. People poorer than me will actually spend the money instead of simply piling it onto their hoard, stimulating the economy." he's not giving good advice for helping the "little people"? So you're saying that it's actually better for the little people to tax them more, relatively?  2003/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28345 Activity:nil 5/5 I say we invade Israel for possesing weapon of massive destruction and consistant records of violation of international laws, and aggression toward its neighbors. \_ And being the only mid east state to allow arabs to vote and the mid east state responsible for the fewest arabs deaths in the last 50 years and the only democratic mid east state and the only mid east state to support the US in the UN general assembly more than 20% of the time. Those jew bastards, I so hate having such a solid democratic ally in such an ugly part of the world. We should ally ourselves with peace loving terrorist dictatorships like the PLO. \_ Democracy has NOTHING to do with it. Lighten up. Look at our OTHER allies: Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? UAE? what do they have in common? Absolute Monarchy! And... if anything, *IRAN* has a democracy! It just that their democracy is very different than what we got over here. \_ You can't have a democracy if there is no freedom of ideas, freedom of the press, etc. If you're too progressive, you'll get the death sentence in Iran... -dated an Iranian, I guess that makes me an expert. \_ It's really simple, Sam: If the other side has suicide bombers, all bets are off. \_ Stupid logic trap. Suicide bomber are only thing they got. without it, Israel will never even consider return land which they conquered.  2003/4/18-19 [Science/Electric, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28165 Activity:very high 4/19 Any philosophy minors out there? I'd like to figure out how to think without resorting to for statements and recursion. Are there any good books to start off with, or any particular thinkers that you have enjoyed? I took some ancient greek philosophy class for my AC, hated it with a passion, but I look back now and realize that I like knowing about Aristotle's (?) cave and Plato's idiotic Republic. Anyway, I'm more interested in more modern thought now. Thanks. \_ It's not Aristotle's cave. If you want to study laws of thought study logic, probability theory, and decision theory. Philosophy is very good to study, but not for that reason. \_ Well, I definitely want philosophy. For whatever reason. Any good books? \_ While modern philosophy is interesting, it's difficult to put it in a proper context without reading the greeks and christian philosophers like Acquinas. I would start there. \- i dont think this is true in the case of Acquinas [sic]. the scholastics are a big detour. --psb \_ A related note. Anybody watch West Wing? The two times I saw it I heard the characters talk about John Rawls and a theory of justice and the veil of ignorance. And also Immanuel Kant and a critique of pure reason. I strongly doubt the average couch potato even knows what that means. I'm wondering how the show can be a big hit if people don't even understand what they're talking about. \_ Note that "For whatever reason" above includes the West Wing. There's a middle ground b/w encouraging further investigation and talking down to viewers. -op \_ Ever watch Fraiser? You think think the average couch potato knows who der fliegende hollander is or who wrote the opera? Probably not. A show can be a hit despite the fact most of the content is way over the heads of the average fan. \_ hello psb. I know die fliegende and I even named your fav aria from Mozart's Don Giovanni. -psb #2 fan you know who I am \_ hello psb. I know die fliegende and I even named your fav aria from Mozart's Don Giovanni. -psb #2 fan you know who I am \_ I'm not psb. \- i think it is more important to take away "tools and frameworks" in which to understand \_ If you had pointy ears or an extremely pale complextion with yellow contacts it would all make sense to you. \_ puccini or donizetti? \_ wagner \_ wagner \_ elixir or lucia? the world [e.g. per ST2:TWoKhan, does the good of the many *always* outweight the good of the few?] and thoughtful answers to Big Questions [like what do the Homeric Epics tell us about "what is good in life?" or "what merits respect or constitutes excellence?"] rather than getting random cultural reference on tv. one is a game the other is wisdom. --psb \_ Yeah, just look at Star Trek. It's not only over peoples heads, it's all total bullshit. \_ If you are interested in epistemology (how do we know what we know), you can check out the big hitters like Hume, Kant, and Wittgenstein, but they might be difficult to read without some instruction. Some modern philosophy of science would also be interesting, like Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution. However, it seems that you are more interested in how to reason informally than epistemology. For that, I'd recommend a Rhetoric 1 textbook. \_ how about the metaphysics, epistimology, and logic of kissing partha? \- with some trepidation about casting pearls ... \- respectively, rawls: green monster and nozick: anarchy state utopia, posner: econ analysis of law, hard one... maybe laski or e.h. carr, kant: crit pur reason. if you give a specific example of some kinds of questions you are interested in ... "what is the philosophical basis of progressive taxation" "what kinds of contracts should not be legal" "what is the basis and limits of state soverignty" "is there a possibility of synthetic a priori knowledge" ... it will only then be possible to make recommendations beyond "start with plato". in other news, kant's birthday is next week and john rawls died quite recently. --psb limits of philosophy, or something my michael sandel. \- okay, let's assume those are the questions to be asked. what do you recommend? \- respectively, 1. rawls: green monster and nozick: anarchy state utopia, 2. posner: econ analysis of law, 3.hmm... maybe laski or e.h. carr ... hobbes locke and plato of course are a given; 4. kant: crit pur reason. but really you should ask your own questions. i think you might be better off taking an econ1 type course. try reading the baulmol and blinder econ textbook. or maybe take a philosophy class at a community college. based on this conversation you will not get through wittgenstein, hume, kant etc. you might be better off reading someone modern who writes in normal english ... maybe williams: ethics and the limits of philosophy, or something by michael sandel. --psb  2003/3/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:27686 Activity:very high 3/13 http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030313/4942670s.htm "Much of the information on Mohammed's laptop computer was protected by an encryption code that CIA analysts cracked easily, U.S. intelligence officials said." It was probably RSA or PGP. What else is he likely to have used? Something from MS? \_ They threated to kill his preteen kids if he didn't give them the password. \_ Damn those unsecure end nodes. \_ Microsoft Visual ROT13++ \_ Microsoft Active Visual 2ROT13#. \_ Be sure to download the first three patches and upgrade before using. The fourth patch allows you to encrypt, but won't decrypt non-MS ROT13 encryptions. They are still working on it... \_ This stuff is getting so old it's not even funny anymore. \_ This stuff is still funny, because it is still the case, despite how long it has been the case. \_ Any system in which the key is shorter than the message is an inherently weak system. The only one "safe" encryption system is OTP (and even that is not safe if you have your own Guardian of Forever) \_ Guardian of Forever? Is this some nerdy book/tv/movie reference? \_ Here's a cookie for you. \_ I'm serious. What is it? \_ Watch TOS Ep. 28. \_ so what the fuck is TOS? \_ You do realize that no one is obligated to answer your question, yes? \_ Your geekdom passport has been revoked. \_ 'cause we all know jocks r00l. \_ oh no! What WILL I do? Oh that's right, have a life. Never mind. \_ Sorry, but we don't buy it. You've already proven you have no life by posting here.  2003/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:27499 Activity:high 2/22 Is osama dead? if not, why wouldn't he show his face? \_ Maybe he has changed his face and doesn't want his reward photos updated?  2003/1/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:27151 Activity:very high 1/18 Looks like some senators still have a little backbone: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-980889.html \_ this is why everyone, regardless of party affiliation should vote in the democratic primary so they acan vote against Liebermann. \_ Lieberman isn't even mentioned in the article that I could see. WTF are you talking about? \_ Anti-Semitic troll attempt. \_ The original logo for the Information Awareness Office is scary. \_ "Concealed in his fortress, the Eye of Mordor sees all." \_ Does the Information Awareness Office remind anyone else of the "Information Retrieval" office in the movie "Brazil"? \_ No. \_ Does the Department of Homeland Security remind anyone else of the Ministry of Love?  2002/12/26 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:26918 Activity:nil 12.26 tom, please don't stop posting. some of us actually find some of the things you have to say helpful. either accept the flames from those who are in the FlameTomFanClub or post anonymously so that your comments don't get watered down with personal attacks... -not tom#1fan, but appreciates non-attacking comments from motd'ers. \_ posting anonymously would be "letting the terrorists win", so to speak. -tom \_ Glad to see you've come around to the conservative point of view. \_ i agree. but don't let the soda bitches stop you from posting. if you do, they are winning doubly. --hates terrorists \_ Huh. I don't particularly agree or disagree with the man but his braying grates badly. I wrote a script that only shows the me the motd on login if his name (and a few others things such as freeper posts) doesn't appear. Unfortunately, I sometimes look anyway... \_ I think you've got the wrong attitude about it. With tongue in cheek it can be quite entertaining to engage tom in a discussion especially if you know in advance he's way out on a limb talking about something he knows nothing about. This happens a lot more than tom is willing to admit which is what makes the motd so fun. I'm still trying to figure out why he keeps spewing about indians and h1bs taking over everything. He has no suggested actions one can take to prevent this from happening, assuming he's even right about it. He just seems to enjoy inflicting FUD on people in these uncertain economic times which I find cruel and mean spirited. That sort of thing must be countered. \_ Who said tom would stop posting?  2002/12/23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:26890 Activity:insanely high 11/22 Homeland Security: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/monahan1.html \_ Wow. this made me feel physically ill. \_ How ill did 9/11 make you feel? -ax \_ 9/11 has nothing to do with this. This is incompetence in the highest degree. Airport security is a sham at best. \_ Airport security is about "feeling" same and "appearing" safe. Its not about being safe. The problem is that most people prefer the perception of security to actual security. \_ and terrorism is about "appearing" unsafe. even after 9/11 it's much safer to fly than to drive. more americans have died from cars than all the wars in american history, yet cars are percieved as normal and people will refiuse to fly for the slight risk of something happening. the fundamental problem is that people are fucking idiots. \_ 9/11 was repulsive, but this is equally repulsive. If the response to terrrorism is to nullify the bill of rights then the country we live in is no longer America. "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." \_ Where does it say in the constitution you are guaranteed the right to air travel without search? Plus, comparing this to 9/11 is saying breast groping is equal to 3000 deaths. I've had by chest groped, I don't think they are equal.-ax \_ This single incident is representative of the thousands of similar occurences in airports nationwide that go unreported. Each violation of the rights of the individual by the state is fundamentally wrong. If you think that the appropriate response to 9/11 is to forgo the rights of the individual (as enumerated in the BoR) and let the state do whatever it wants to the citizens then you don't understand the essence the American Experiment. \_ " The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated." It says it right there. \_ You agreed to be searched when you voluntarily entered the airport to fly. You could have not flown and then you wouldn't have been searched. That sounds reasonable to me. -ax \_ what was that someone saying about people being fucking idiots? \_ It is not at all saying they're the same. But you tell a mother that endangering her baby's health is worth the "increased security" this purportedly provides and she'll smack your ass, and rightly so. --scotsman \_ Choosing to fly while pregnant is a big risk, if you really cared about your baby, you wouldn't fly while pregnant. My wife isn't. -ax \_ you're letting someone immigrate out of your wife's womb? shock! dismay! \_ While I agree with this, some people don't have a choice and in America one has a reasonable expectation to be secure in one's person and property against search (Amd. IV) \_ The Fourth Amendment was already shredded during the "war on drugs." How many times do you think this and far worse indignities were perpetrated on poor people in America in the last 30 years? The only difference this time is that a middle class reporter's wife is getting groped. The chickens have indeed come home to roost. \_ I don't support the war on drugs. But I once had hope that we could recover from it and restore the constitution without bloodshed. Now it seems the only way to take back America is in the way the way of the founding fathers. \_ Zero Tolerance, baby. Love it or leave it. \_ I love America. In America such things should not happen. \_ Have you guys heard of martial law? When you are at war, your rights get modified. That is a sacrifice every American is expected to make for the good of the country. Guess what, if we win the war, you get your rights back. If we lose, you don't. -ax \_ Wow. You really, actually believe the Bushies intend to give you your rights back if they "win". That's just...I mean, I don't even think Ann Coulter or one of them would make that claim. \_ Ok, no one gives up any rights, and the terrorists keep crashing planes into our buildings until the government collapses, and the terrorists now rule the U.S. Do you think you have a bill of rights then? People just assume the US lives forever. Did you ever think it might get killed off someday? -ax \_ This is the same excuse that we heard during the "war on drugs." This war is the same: defined so that it is unwinnable, thereby justifying a permanent state of emergency. \_ I asked this once before and people called me a pedant or whatever, but I'll ask it again. Did Congress actually declare war on something? Or can we be under martial law just because the President calls a police action a "war"? -geordan \_ One last question, for those of you unwilling to yield any of your rights under any cirumstance, are you willing to serve your country in the armed forces in a time of dire need? -ax \_ I would bet there are very very few people who are "unwilling to yield any of [their] rights under any circumstances." You're polarizing the discussion, thus undermining your point. I personally think that all politics has been distilling down to exactly this distinction: for what are you willing to sacrifice which liberties. Also, I would be willing to serve in homeland defense, but not in an armed forces dedicated to economic protection on foreign soil for the sake of a few very powerful people. --scotsman \_ Polarizing the argument is the point. My point is that the majority of people commenting don't care enough about this country to make ANY sacrifice for it. Your constitutional rights are guaranteed by the ability of the US government and military to maintain the soverignty of our nation, not by simply stating them in a motd. The constitution would be meaningless if instead of bearing arms against foreign enemies, our founding fathers sat around debating endlessly against those taking action because it might infringe on their "rights". -ax \_ exactly how is a pregnant white woman from L.A. a "foreign enemy"? -tom \_ She might have had exploding breasts!! -ax :) \_ There's plenty of criticism here. What's the solution? Do nothing? For those who are so quick to poke holes in the current strategy, what's yours? -ax \_ Kick the shit out of our enemies so they are afraid of us again. Nothing is served, or stopped, by fucking up our lives. \_ I don't see any problem which is solved by lying on police reports in order to be able to arrest American citizens and threaten them with felonies for no real reason. The question is not how to "solve" the terrorism problem, the question is, what real purpose is served by such gestapo tactics? -tom  2002/12/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26861 Activity:high 12/19 Does anyone in the INS or the Justice dept actually believe that any of the people that have been arrested are terrorists? http://csua.org/u/712 \_ Of course, terrorists take the time and energy to register with immigration authorities. *snicker* \_ Idiot, the best way to blend in is to sign up with everyone else so you don't stick out. Do you avoid paying the IRS so they won't catch you making a filing error, too? *snicker* \_ why not? there have been a bunch of al qaida terrorists \_ Except in this case you get arrested and thrown in jail which prevents you from completing your mission. \_ maybe that's on purpose. a sort of "cry for help". \_ why not? there have been a bunch of terrorist-types who are also legal us immigrants. a us passport is handy for international travel. besides, if a terrorist could follow us immigration law at a low cost, why not? why increase one's exposure to law enforcement? \_ Would you expect a terrorist to follow traffic laws? \_ i thought those socal fellows were arrested for things like visa violation. \_ Pretty much. They are playing the Zero Tolerance game. Any problems with your visa and, poof, you're in jail. \_ Actually it should be no visa = ass kicked out. I don't want to spend money keeping these clowns in jail. Plane tickets are much cheaper. \_ zero tolerance is good. \_ Be sure to think that the next time you get a speeding or parking ticket. \_ i wish they did. the best way to get a bad law repealed is for the authorities to enforce it. of course, the logic behind this idea of zero tolerance on one law requires zero tolerance on all laws is questionable. \_ What the other guy said. And I don't protest and throw fits when I do get a speeding ticket.  2002/11/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26662 Activity:moderate 11/28 But when Scott Armstrong, founder of the National Security Archive and a former staff member of Senate Watergate committee was told of the news, he laughed for a solid minute. - danh \_ was told of what news? WTF are you trying to talk about? thankfully no one is able to read your mind. post a link or kill your post. you're wasting precious bits. \_ Henry Kissinger: This Man Is On The Other Side http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797596/posts?page=1,50 \_ The above about Armstrong is *not* in the freeper link. This is all BS. \_ Here's what plastic has to say about Kissinger: http://www.plastic.com/article.html?sid=02/11/27/18402146;cmt=55 Poliitical satire became obsolete when they awarded Henry Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize.  2002/11/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26654 Activity:very high 11/27 How is a Kissinger led fact-finding commission going to reassure Americans about anything? I really don't understand this, what is Bush's purpose in putting that man in charge? Conservatives, help me understand here, is Kissinger actually well respected and trusted by anyone? -ausman \_ it's about the money. It's all about the money. \_ could you give a news link to tell those of us who live in a Faraday cage with a text terminal what you are talking about? \_ http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/27/politics/27CND-BUSH.html \_ The Nobel committee (along with Arafat). -tom \_ He is, no shit, a rock star to conservatives young and old. Let me speak honestly, frankly, openheartedly. You are a liar. --Le Duc Tho to Henry Kissinger I showed nothing on my face, but in my heart, I laughed and laughed. --Henry Kissinger \- psb \_ In a way, Kissiner is an American hero. He act solely upon the interest of American States. In the process, again and again fulfilled American's Imperial agenda over the world. The price, is violate just about every idealogy which the founding fathers envisioned about human rights, civil rights, and democracy. Then again, he got Nobel Peace price, something I still couldn't figure out why. \_ The FF didn't believe in democracy or what we today refer to as human rights. As far as the "Imperial" agenda goes, we'd be the first country to ever exert our so called imperial power through McDonald's and Nike. If other countries don't want us to be powerful they should stop giving us so much money for our stuff. The Nobel PP is a complete crock. They gave it to Arafat, a known murderer and terrorist. Try to figure *that* one out. Kissinger might not be a nice person but he never pulled a trigger. \_ I'm not sure which is a better line but we need more of both of these types of men. \_ Kissinger: He'll find whatever there is to find. It is just a case of how it gets reported and spun. As far as will it reassure anyone, dunno. I find it more reassuring than if say Jimmy Carter or some other ninny was doing it. At least this way there'll be a file with the truth in it that'll come out in 50 years at worst. \_ Okay, some are reassured. That is all I wanted to know, thanks. \_ And others are waiting to see where they're going to fit Haig back into the club. \_ Or maybe Walter Mondale. He'd make a good Senator or something!  2002/11/27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26649 Activity:very high 11/26 In 2000 I thought he was a 4 faced lying sack of ego maniacal shit. Now I just feel sorry for him. I think he's lost it. http://www2.observer.com/observer/pages/frontpage1.asp \_ If I were Mike Judge, i'd have my lawyers send that guy a letter. His scketch of Gore looks *exactly* like Butthead. \_ Well he's a bit misguided; he sees some sort of far-reaching plot in the media when, with very very few precious exceptions, it's all just shit geared towards idiots. Never ascribe to malice or stupidity what can be explained by raw sewage. -John \_ yeah, it's pretty funny how the right thinks the media are part of a giant leftist conspiracy and the left think it's a giant right-wing conspircacy...while the executives who control the media know it's just a conspiracy to make them lots of money. \_ No one with a grain of sense believes in the "liberal media" myth. He's very right about the machine of foxnews. It amazes me that anybody actually watches it. --scotsman \_ Oh, so the surveys that show that 90% of journalists vote Democrat are a myth, eh? \_ If you watch ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN and it doesn't offend you and you're voting left then maybe it doesn't offend you because they have the same politics you do? I vote right and find all of them sickening. I understand that when I listen to Rush he has an agenda. He makes it clear he's biased and doesn't claim to be unbiased. When I used to watch the 3-letters news it was clear they had a bias but were unwilling or unable to cop to it possibly because they really honestly think they're fair and even handed even though they're clearly not. \_ Actually, what upsets me is that in the attempt to be unbiased, the quite probably liberal-minded reporters leave stuff out that should be said (albeit in an editorial rather than a report, but when was the last time you saw editorial or simply an attempt at historical context on any newscast). --scotsman \_ I don't trust the newsmedia to provide a historic context to anything. They're not historians. They are commercial providers of current information and nothing more. \_ maybe they are being fair, and the right-wingers just have agendas that sound ridiculous when they're reported fairly. -tom \_ maybe, or maybe you've been drinking your own lemonade for too long. \_ The RNC has been crying "left-wing media bias" for 20 years. Turnabout is fair play. \_ It's not turnabout. The media has been left wing for far more than 20 years. Just what the world didn't need is hiding behind more false moral equivalency. \_ And from my perspective, the media has been pro-business and corporate run and controlled for much longer than that. So it really matters where you are looking at it from. \_ Scaife and others have spent hundreds of millions smearing him and Clinton. He is telling the truth: http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/L-clintonrightwingconspiracy.html \_ Scaife hasn't spent hundreds of anything. And even if he and mysterious 'others' did, that's still nothing next to the 24x7 value provided by the 3letter networks for decades without any counterpoint until now. Gore is just upset the Right can finally get their message out. He think it's unfair. Boo hoo. I had to stop reading your link after laughing my ass off in the summary paragraph: "One of the machine's most important leaders is Richard Mellon Scaife, the billionaire who is financing nearly all the scandals that engulf President Clinton." Did Scaife buy the Blue Dress(tm) or The Cigar(c)? *laugh* \_ Scaife has contributed millions. Your denying it does not strengthen your case.  2002/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:26547 Activity:nil 11/14 Big Brother is coming: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40942-2002Nov11.html \_ "Poindexter said any operational system would include safeguards to govern the collection of information. " At least there will be a Minority Report!  2002/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:26531 Activity:insanely high 11/13 conspiracy theory of the day: if Bin Laden were really alive, he'd send al jazeera a video, not an audio tape. hence, the message is fake. however it is a good fake, that has convinced people who know his voice very well. this implies technological sophistication, as well as the intelligence to fake Bin Ladens rather fancy sounding arabic. who would have the motive and the technical knowhow? Iraq. I think this is a fake broadcast by Iraq to try to erode international support for the U.S. \_ You are completely wrong. The only gov. that has the kind of resources to fake a message like that and get all of the media outlets to buy into it is our gov. If you want to be exact not the elected gov. but rather the shadow gov. that actually runs things and spreads misinformation and manipulates the public in order to keep us from knowning the Truth! that we are being used a pawns by aliens bent on galatic conquest. Bin Laden and Sept. 11 and Iraq are all just a cover for the shadow gov. to get funding for black ops. projects designed to facilitate the conversion. Trust No One! - F. Mulder \_ Which leads us to the "napalm the fuckin barbarians" school of law enforcement. -John \_ Even if you're correct on everything, bin laden being alive won't erode support for the US. Please avoid jobs at the State Dept. \_ did you read the transcript of the message? it's not the existence of the message, but the content. \_ I read it all. So what? You're still in la-la land. \_ It'd more believable if you said it's the US who had the motive and the technical knowhow to fake it. \_ Ooo! I like this one. Only Bin Laden isn't the target anymore. \_ bin laden has never been the target. if he were, he'd be dead. \- i think in the past they have been able to get various info from the video tape ... location conjectures, health of OBL etc so that might be one reason also. --psb \_ you think no one who works for bin laden has heard of a bluescreen? i would like to hope that they're that stupid, but i doubt it. \_ Blue and green screen are easily detectable and are pointless if you're trying to look holy and tough.  2002/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/911, Consumer/Camera] UID:26411 Activity:very high 11/4 Anyone has any URLs to the nude pictures of a female star published in in a magazine Hong Kong a week or so ago that brought the magazine to closure? Thanks. \_ do you want the nude pix of the nepalese actress that got her to kill herself too? kill herself too? well a lot of people are agitating about this in nepal. there were also allegagtions she was a ho. oh this newspaper is on the weeb but it might be hard for most of you white people to read. i guess you can look at the pictures. see e.g. http://www.nepalnews.com.np/janastha.htm --psb \_ psb, silly boy, look harder: http://www.nepalnews.com.np/ntimes/issue117/comment.htm You know, for the white people. --erikred \- well that isnt where the good stuff is. that's the spin.--psb \_ yes \_ Did this actually happen? I can't find much sympathy for someone who was so ashamed by nudity. http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5396450%255E401,00.html _/ \_ She was probably condemned by the society. If she felt ashamed about it, she wouldn't have posted nude. \_ yeah im sure no one does anything they'd be ashamed of earlier in life when they're desperate for cash or a break. get off the motd you spoiled silver spooned elitist pig child. \_ uhuh...and you are speaking of personal experience?  2002/10/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26240 Activity:high 10/17 3 votes against the asian chick. Racism! \_ stay angry! http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html \_ What about Terilyn Joe?  2002/10/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:26208 Activity:insanely high 10/16 "Pentagon to Help in Hunting Sniper" http://csua.org/u/407 It's the second time in three weeks that the military is called into domestic law enforcement. Have our law enforcement agencies become so lame? \_ As my manager, a former jarhead, says, "using marines as peacemakers is insane. Marines' job is to KILL THINGS." \_ the sniper is not just a normal criminal. this is someone who has been trained as a soldier. \_ I am into finding whoever the sniper(s) is, and killing him. \_ But they're gonna kill terrorists! RRRRAAAAGH! I LOVE AMERICA! \_ Don't worry, Ashcroft will make it legal for the military to participate in domestic matters. It's for national security. They didn't have terrorists back in the 1700's, so obviously our Founding Fathers hadn't foreseen the implications of their Bill \_ maybe you should law enforcement, hotshot. \_ maybe you should join the law enforcement, hotshot. of Rights. \_ I said we just toss our stupid Constitution all together. This 300 yr old document is way out-dated... \_ Soon, we shall have soldiers stationed in our homes. \_ What was the original idea of having that law back then? \_ And a total violation of Posse Comitatus laws. \_ What Pussy Coitus laws? \_ maybe you should the law enforcement, hotshot. \_ I can't find a verb in that sentince. \_ What's a "sentince"? \_ why don't they use national guard troops first? \_ and how would you classify troops at large airports? \_ absolutely useless. \_ Technically it was domestic law enforcement, but that was 9/11 related. These two times they were a bank robbery at Nebraska and then a psycho sniper killing random people. (Yeah, I know Ridge hasn't ruled out terrorism on the sniper case.) \_ would you draw a line between troops under civilian command/control and military command/control? \_ Not really. Airports are federal facilities and can troops can be used to protect them. Not law enforcement, guard duty. \_ its just surveillance aircraft. It would be useful to the operation. \_ Not really unless the perp is using the same vehicle and not under cover when aircraft are finally put into the air. I would suspect that other military resources (real-time satellite photography) MIGHT be useful. But with all the press, I'm guessing the perp will use a different MO for each new killing.  2002/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:26132 Activity:very high 10/8 Ex-FBI Chief Rejects 9/11 Criticism http://csua.org/u/3b5 "I repeatedly testified before Congress that FBI agents were statutorily barred from obtaining portions of credit reports on certain national security subjects which used car dealers could order and read." No wonder. Silly law. \_ used car dealers shouldn't be able to either. \_ I'm not really sure what parts of credit reports we're talking about. I looks to me like they mean the whole report. I guess I have a question. Who should be able to read credit reports then? -jrleek \_ No one but people who need it to conduct business with you and only with your permission. \_ They don't unless you give them permission to look. He wants the FBI to have access to your financial records without requesting a warrant. \_ whatever happened to respect for the bill of rights? \_ That went out over 50 years ago. Don't kid yourself. \_ so i guess we just give up right now? \_ How do you plan to catch terrorists before they attack without violating the "right to privacy" you are so freely giving them? -ax \_ motdformatd was here. \_ "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin \_ How does obtaining credit reports help with catching terrorists? Nothing on the credit reports has any information that's even remotely related.  2002/10/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26117 Activity:moderate 10/6 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2303363.stm Just because you're French and cut deals with terrorists on a daily basis doesn't mean they won't attack you too. \_ which deals are those? \_ You live on Earth, circa 2002AD, right? The French have a looong history of cutting deals and _trying_ to placate terrorists. It never works but they keep trying. \_ well, they're french. what alternatives do that have? it's cut deals or just surrender and let the terrorists goose step down the champs elysees. \_ hey that worked out well last time.  2002/9/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:26018 Activity:insanely high 9/26 Watergate quality mess for the Dems. http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/1686860/detail.html [Why do you keep deleting this newsworthy link?] : "The story has received national media attention. Articles have appeared on political Web sites for CBS, CNN, ABC, NBC, the Washington Post and others." And the followup link as they narrow down who is going to jail: http://miva.dmregister.com/miva/cgi-bin/miva?news/live/display.mv+direction=showstory&showrec=8 \_ hmm, in one case a disgruntled worker leaks a tape he made of a strategy meeting for a senate seat, in another the president has the cia break and enter, bug, and photograph key documents of the opposing candidate. Not to mention a highly detailed cover up that includes lieing to congress. Yah I can see why you think they on the same level.  2002/9/22 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25972 Activity:very high 09/21 Anyone know how true the facts are in this article? http://www.exile.ru/150/150010101.html \_ Well Bruce Willis is certainly NOT a "New Age hack for M. Night Shyalaman." As for the rest. it certainly suffers credibility wise by a complete lack of references/links even to "media reports" which it makes vague claims to. \_ Who read this: .... \_ Facts: Pretty solid. Interpretation: Questionable. \_ Facts are shakey. No links. No references. Just spew. He belongs on the motd, not trying to publish like he's a real journalist or reporter of any sort. Spew, spew, spew. \_ "Like he's a real journalist" is debatable. "Exile.ru." Think about it. These are morons who forgot what "exile" really means and think that just because they ran from their homeland in an attention-grubbing tantrum, they deserve a soapbox to speak from. Ran, let alone, to Russia, where all reasonable people run _from_, not _to_. \_ Exile is the name of the paper they write that is geared towards expats living in Moscow. \_ If he's going to go off op/ed style trying to convince his readership of a lot of heavy hitting shit than he can at least come up with some minor references. I'm not clear on what this website is about. Did this idiot flee *to* Russia *from* the US or other western country? Baffling. \_ he fled from UC Berkeley actually, look for the Exile book and reviews on Amazaon \_ Someone link FreeRepublic to it. \_ Why? Why are so many here apparently obsessed with the freepers? They're just the mindless right wing's version of the mindless left wing's idiots. Freeper freaks on the right, SF Bay Area freaks on the same. Same closed minded, self deluded, agenda driven stupidity.  2002/9/18 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25925 Activity:very high 9/18 Anybody else annoyed at all this bickering over money for those who died on 9/11? I understand that they need the money. But why is private life insurance not enough? Why does the US gov't have to get involved in paying the families? We're talking about something like 1+ million dollars per family. This is on top of the life insurance they're getting. \_ Anybody who could ask questions like this must really hate America. \_ not at all. I don't hate America but I also don't think that the federal government owes anybody anything because of 9-11. They didn't bomb the WTC, pentagon, or pennsylvania, after all. \_ Maybe this is not compensation but disaster relief aid? But$1M per family of relief aid is way too much compared to aids in other disasters. It's all politics in this case. \_ Maybe the other cases didn't get enough and should? Who is to say? \_ Are you saying every family who has members killed in a car accident or a fire or a robbery should get $1M from the federal govt? \_ Is a car accident a national disaster requiring relief? \_ No, and that's my point. Why do families of killed victims of 9/11 "require"$1M fed aid while those of killed victims of random car accidents or bank robberies don't? \_ i suppose the gov't is responsible more for WTC because it was the gov't that pissed off bin laden. \_ it has nothing to do with "responsible" as the morally bankrupt would claim. it has to do with scale. when one DUI rams his car into a wall, the country goes on. when 3000 people die, 4 planes go down, 2 *HUGE* buildings are gone, and the pentagon gets a big hole in it, people need to know the govt is doing something. disaster relief for family victims is one small part of that. \_ I thought our impending invasion of Iraq was our government's way of letting the people know that they're doing something. \_ Nothing to do with it. \_ It was a reflexive response. Note that for all those killed in the Sept. 11 attacks (including non-Americans) are getting the money. In the Sudanese embassy bombing, only Americans are being compensated (this means non-citizen employees and bystanders killed/hurt by the blast are not getting money). It's all very emotional. See the Red Cross incident. \_ The reasonable bickering is about cases like the Red Cross who ostensibly raised money for the families of the victims, but then were *very* stingy about actually giving it to them. Given the public response for the victims, I don't see a need for federal aid for the victims (except perhaps in helping them contact the various charities).
 2002/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25897 Activity:nil 9/14 'You have to kill in the name of Allah until you are killed' http://www.observer.co.uk/islam/story/0,1442,640288,00.html
 2002/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25876 Activity:high 9/13 "A Meditation on Our Vanishing Liberties, One Year After the 9-11 Attacks" http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0237/solomon.php \_ People here pick on the mainstream newspaper URLs I post because they have a tin foil and black helicopter fear of the moonies, yet the village voice is posted as if it could be taken seriously? \_ have you ever dealt directly with a moonie controlled business? they're like the mafia, only they can hide behind religion and they seem to be better at what they do. it's not paranoia. fuck the moonies. \_ And this has exactly what to do with newspapers or their content? \_ i go to their website, it increments their counters, makes their site more popular, and increases their advertising revenue so they can attack more busineses. i don't care if there are good reporters on staff at the washingon times; i will *never* knowingly support a cult's business, having been hurt by them in the past. \_ You actually decrease their click through rate, which hurts them. You may increase their unique visitors count, which may help. \_ Ok, at least you admit to having an axe to grind and it has *nothing* to do with the quality of their staff. \_ By "moonies" you mean members of the Unification Church founded by the Korean Sun Myung Moon? What does that have to do with mainstream newspapers in US? \_ That's what I keep asking but my mainstream newspaper URLs will get dismissed out of hand as "moony propoganda" without any reference to the content which is always available elsewhere.
 2002/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25869 Activity:nil 9/12 Victory of the proletariat What the loss of Brazil to "the Reds" would mean for the United States http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0902/0902brazilelec2.htm \_ Who cares, I'm more freaked out about the country/economy/ just about everything I hold near and dear going to hell if/when/certainly! the bush administration invades Iraq \_ why don't you post a news link rather than a right-wing editorial. can't you just write your own right-wing editorials here on the motd? \_ Have you ever seen the word 'Communist' associated with any of the politicians mentioned in the mainstream press. I rest my case.
 2002/9/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25867 Activity:kinda low 9/12 "N.Y. Lottery Drawing Pops Up 9-1-1" http://csua.org/u/276 Coincidence? You name it. \_ oh my god! wowowowow! I wonder how many millions of random numbers did *not* have 911 in them today?! Conspiracy? \_ Do you understand how the New York State "Numbers" Lottery work? Three independent digits from 0-9 are drawn in order. So the probablility of getting 9-1-1 is only 0.001. Since there are two drawings every day, the odds of getting 9-1-1 on Sep. 11 is 0.001999, or slightly less than 1 in 500. \_ yeah i know it's not that statisically improbably, but it's still really spooky \_ how many other states have similar drawings? \_ At least CA doesn't. Besides, how many other states were attacked on 9/11? \_ Two. \_ Exactly. \_ wowowoowow that's soooo amazing! wowowowowowoow! There *must* be black helos and tin foil hats in there somewhere! woowowowowowowowo!!!! I can't get over it!
 2002/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25847 Activity:high 9/11 http://www.msnbc.com/news/806174.asp?cp1=1 on Nelson Mandela saying the United States is a threat to world peace. I gave up on the second line where it says "Sentenced to life in prison on desolate Robben Island...". Yes he was held by the government but at least be honest about it; it was a palatial estate the likes of which I can never dream of affording. I'd gladly give up my job and life here to be held captive at his former prison/estate. \_ would you really want to be captive in one spot for 25 years? not that I think mandela is the greatest, no one mentions that he used to be a terrorist. granted, fighting the aparteid policies of south africa almost excused just about anything. his wife waited for him for 25 years, then he divorced her for some sweet young thing just as soon as he was released from jail. - danh \_ 25 years in paradise? Would you turn down a ticket to Heaven for eternity too? Don't forget all those burning tires around the necks of non-ANC blacks. \- from the pictures i have seen of his cell it didnt seem palatial. do you have a picture? being married to winnie mandela was probably a worse sentence. ok tnx. \_ He was held in confinement (yes, prison) not in a cell for most of the time on a gorgeous estate. I saw pics in a magazine. \_ Other views around the world are similar: http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/oneyearlater/livesChanged_good.html I had no idea the Koreans hated us that much. Anyone got a link to the video mentioned in the article? \_ http://koreawave.sohu.com/66/80/article201698066.shtml \_ OBYankeeGoHome!
 2002/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25844 Activity:nil 9/11 Big power outage in Foster City right now. Transformer blown up. Terrorist attack? \_ Foster city? A power transformer? Terrorism? No. Just standard lack of training and lowest bid practices. \_ Is there anything worth terrorizing in Foster City? \_ Isn't that where you can get cheap, tasty ice cream sundays? \_ I used to work there. There wasn't even a decent burger joint. If Foster City was entirely destroyed I don't think anyone would really notice. \_ Burgers at Red Robin seem good. \_ I don't know if it was there when I worked there. I would've killed for something as 'good' as red robin. \_ Foster City is in the landing path for SFO-bound flights. Planes fly pretty low around there. \_ That's a big claim to fame and a good reason to blow up a power transformer. Uh yeah whatever. \_ my car broke down this morning. terrorist attack??? \_ Was your car blown up? Did it affect 3000 (according to PG&E) customers?
 2002/9/8 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25803 Activity:nil 9/7 A complete disgrace. School-sponsored 9-11 Remembrance Day to exclude patriotic symbols and religious references http://calpatriot.org/issueupdate/911.html
 2002/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25783 Activity:high 9/5 while some of you rally about memorializing 9/11, how about some thought for those killed in Munich at the 1972 Olympic Games 30 years ago? 2 killed on the morning of Sep 5 1972, 9 more the next day Sep 6 1972. 11 athletes killed. \_ It's all fucked up. Get a grip. \_ They were Jews. Not even American Jews. \_ Sign your name, (coward|troll). \_ will somebody please think of the children!!!!! \_ Are they Jewish American children? Do they vote and donate? \_ 2500+ dead and 85 billion in economic damage in NYC... not even close! and anyway didn't the Mossad kill just \_ that's 2500+ third-world oppressing, environment despoiling, culturally hegemonistic, infidel american pigs. they deserve to die. about everyone involved in the Munich attacks eventually? \_ Most didn't make it in the long term, yes. \_ over a long enough period of time everyone's chances of survival drop to zero. \_ Ok, tell you what, you go kill yourself now because hey, over the long term your survival odds are zero anyway, right? I'll fly the plane with the gun toting pilot and we'll both be happy. So, you're a dormy, right? This is the kind of silly thing dormies would say in late night drunken "debate" when discussing god, abortion, the death penalty, and every other issue drunken dormies have 'solved' over the years. \_ calm down. it's a quote from Fight Club. \_ why quote stupid lines from movies very few people saw? \_ because i find it amusing to watch people like you get agitated. please continue. \_ We don't care about them non-Americans, you damned terrorist! \_ ignoring ideology, how about looking at 1972 as an example of how complacency and media-attention combine to create a situation begging for exploitation by terrorists? http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0902/munich \_ My God! You've discovered the mastermind behind the Munich massacre! It's Siebler!
 2002/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25781 Activity:nil 9/5 http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/09/05/germany.osama Couple trying to name their son Osama bin Laden \_ Which just goes to show that stupidity is truly global.
 2002/8/26 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:25698 Activity:high 8/26 Cool. Now they're doing popularity polls re: terrorist groups and reporting it as straight news. The world has truly gone mad. http://csua.org/u/1af (urld has been here) \_ so...did you just recover from a coma, or what? all the mainstream media is full of opinion polls reported as news.
 2002/8/25 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:25678 Activity:high 8/25 http://web.lfw.org/jminc/Zilla/http://www.cnn.com \_ Ok so someone can figure out the one line of perl required to replace 99% of cnn's front page with "Zilla". So? \_ Do Not Question Ping. Ping Is Leeter Than Thou. -ping #1 fan \_ i dunno. it's funnier at 1 am on a friday. there was also something kind of deep about the absurdification of the bin laden news but I forgot what it was. \_ Malkovich malkovich?
 2002/5/28 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:24960 Activity:nil 5/28 What happened to all those conpiracy sites that claim that Pearl Harbor+911+SpanishAm War were gov sponsored? They don't seem to stay that long. \_ modern evidence points to the Maine as an accident
 2002/5/26 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:24947 Activity:nil 5/25 Drugs, Russia and Terrorism http://www.thefinalphase.com/DouglassDrugs.htm Why We Didn't Listen to Golitsyn http://www.thefinalphase.com/ListenGolitsyn.htm
 2002/5/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:24857 Activity:nil 5/16 New Russian Weapons versus Old American arsenals http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/682491/posts
 2002/5/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:24774 Activity:insanely high 5/9 what's the fucking point of not allowing people at the fucking gates in airports if you're not flying? \_ It keeps the terrorists away. \_ the same way those national guards do? \_ No. Don't be a stupid troll. You know the difference. \_ It keeps the fucking terrorists away. see what, if anything, the national guards at the airport terminals can do. \_ So that there arent as many people trying to get through security. The delay as it is at the security is bad already. The national guards, on the other hand..... \_ Make people feel safer. Self delusion is your friend. It's everyone's friend. \_ This is not what was said. What was said was "not allowing people at the gates" vs "nat. guard on bridges". You get an "F". \_ the fucking same way those national guards do? \_ No. Don't be a stupid troll. You know the fucking difference. \_ no, that was no troll. and I really don't see what, if anything, the fucking national guards at the fucking airport terminals can do. \_ This is not what was said. What was said was "not allowing people at the fucking gates" vs "nat. guard on bridges". You get a fucking "F". \_ Even though those fuckers allow only the fucking passengers in, sometimes on busy days, it takes me up to a fucking hour to get through! Can you imagine what'd happen if those fuckers also allowed people who are not flying inside too?
 2002/5/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:24669 Activity:high 5/1 Jews try to burn Bethlehem Church, place of Jesus's birth, Waco style. webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=200205011756000237290_aolns.src http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/01/mideast/index.html \_ sounds like a terrorist bomb accidentalyly went off inside the church by one of the terrorist hiding in it. \_ sounds like a terrorist bomb accidentalyly went off inside the church by one of the terrorist hiding in it. \_ Terrorists hold holy site hostage for over a month. The world doesn't seem to care. Christians wonder how world would react if Jews occupied the Al-Aqsa mosque. \_ It's only a mosque. We've blown those up before. \_ the jews should get their temple back, blow up that sacriligeous mosque on top of the jewish temple. \_ Ah, another sign that the "Rapture(tm)" is nearing. The Jews controlling Jerusalem. That's why the conservative Christians are supporting Israel. \_ Except for a very minority of Christian kooks, that's mostly the imagination of the Jewish media.
 2002/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:24266 Activity:insanely high 3/28 So how many people believe the U.S. was involved in bringing down the WTC in order to create endless oilwar as well as blind flag waving/rights-waiving obeissance etc? \_ How many? Only the stupid and the paranoid ones. Count them up. \_ It was the Mossad. \_ you misspelled "yermom." \_ Sure, blame the Jews. You know it was the ANC. \_ The US didn't do it, but knew it was going to happen and turned a blind eye to the possiblity: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j16.shtml stunning the growing protests of globalization just before \_ Wouldn't be the first time that the TPTB overlooked an impending disaster (ex. FDR and Pearl Harbor) \_ or manufactured one (e.g., Tonkin Gulf, resulting in U.S. entering the Vietnam War) -- the government admits this openly now. \_ USS Maine and the Spanish American War, USS Greer and WWI, the list goes on. \_ You mean USS Greer/WWII, right? What is odd about that incident? UBoats sank quite a few US \_ Greer was WWI. She was the first ship fired upon by germans, but this was in self defense (the destroyers before the US entry. Do you think they were all hoaxes or something? \_ Greer was WWI. She was the first navy ship fired on by germans, but this was in self defense (the Greer was depth charging the Uboat in question) Wilson "forgot" that the Greer was under orders to depth charge Uboats when we went before congress and urged the US entry into WWI. It wasn't exactly lying, but it was shady. \_ http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/7-2-188/188-29.html Maybe the same incident happened in both wars with the same ship, but I kind of doubt it. \_ http://www.copvcia.com and http://www.emperors-clothes.com \_ don't forget masking the inevitable economic downturn and the stunning growing protests of globalization just before they IMF/WB went to WDC \_ yeah all those dotcommers outa work could cause a lot of hell if they identified the real problem \_ Actually this was a problem for most large corporations. Once the supply of labor was getting short, costs went up. When the dotcoms who couldn't outlast a yearlong recession and died, the supply of labor shot up and corporation costs have gone down. \_ Not that I'm discounting the theory, but why is there a conspiracy theory for every major event in history? Next thing you know, the gov't conspired to bring the asteroid in to kill off the dinosaurs. \_ Cuz government by definition IS a conspiracy, one which is well-funded and controls who the "rules" apply to and which commits every action with social control and the maintaining power (gained via the conspiracy of government) as its paramount concern. Off-the-shelf formulas are used frequently. \_ "by definition". Uhm ok. Whatever. No cookie, troll. \_ The government bringing in asteroids to kill the dinosaurs? Nothing could be more absurd. Everyone knows it was space aliens. -geordan \_ it was the gays. -rev. falwell \_ and we all know what a healthy lifestyle many of them lead.
 2002/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23981 Activity:high 2/26 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&u=/nyt/20020226/ts_nyt/u_s__analysts_find_no_sign_bin_laden_had_nuclear_arms "The analysis ...... suggests, in fact, that Mr. bin Laden and Al Qaeda may have been duped by black-market weapons swindlers selling crude containers hand-painted with skulls and crossbones and dipped, perhaps, in medical waste to fool a Geiger counter, officials said." HAHAHAHA! \_ Kind of old news but it's nice to see it confirmed. BTW, anyone know how long weapon's grade material takes to degrade? If someone stole X amount of nuke quality stuff in 1992, how much would they have left today and how much would it take to build a clean bomb? \_ He can't be *that* stupid, can he? Maybe he's just trying to deceive us? \_ It's an old story. This just confirms what was already a really good assumption from prior reports. \_ and then they could have just left the fake containers to let us *think* they were duped. If it was the real thing, do you think they'd really have just abandoned it while they were melting into the mountains to fight again another day? \_ Nobody said it was the real thing. What's your point? \_ And maybe they did that and we know they know we know and hey someone get out the cone of motd silence! 007 you're not, maybe 86.
 2002/2/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23910 Activity:very high 2/19 http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/19/gen.strategic.influence/index.html Office of Strategic Influence or Office of Propoganda/Brainwashing? \_ Oh my god! The government might not tell the truth! This is truly shocking! Do we also spend money on the Office of Correct Spelling? Not enough, apparently. \_ yeah but this is the sort of office it'd be better not to publicize to people..just do it already, but covertly.
 2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23411 Activity:nil 12/30 Why does the EPA, Department of Interior, the IRS, soon NASA, ... basically every branch of government have SWAT teams? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/598950/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/558735/posts
 2001/12/16 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23265 Activity:high 83%like:23257 12/15 http://www.washtimes.com/national/20011215-68264047.htm MOTD POLL: Bin Laden will: Be found dead from combat injuries not old age (duh!): . Be captured alive: Escape: . Surrender: Beat back the evil western hordes in the name of Allah: . \_ The Washington Times is one of the few newspapers worth reading. \_ Run by a bunch of Moonies, loved by paranoid Right Wingers. Great. You gotta love how the Republicans love to accuse others You gotta admire how the Republicans prefer to accuse others of what they do the most. Taking money from Asian religious leaders? How about the Moonie -> RNC connection, which has been going on for years. Oh, that right, it is only treason if a Democrat does it.
 2001/12/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23261 Activity:nil 12/14 Al Qaeda Training Manual http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm It was mentioned in an NY times article but not linked. I google'd it on usdoj.gov. Pretty interesting read about some of what the terrorists are learning/teaching.
 2001/12/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23257 Activity:high 83%like:23265 53%like:36311 12/15 http://www.washtimes.com/national/20011215-68264047.htm MOTD POLL: Bin Laden will: Be found dead: . \_ it may take 25 years, but everyone dies eventually. Be captured alive: Escape: . Surrender: Beat back the evil western hordes in the name of Allah: . \_ The Washington Times is one of the few newspapers worth reading.
 2001/12/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23247 Activity:kinda low 12/14 I've missed the news lately. What was the explanation on why bin Laden made that videotape that looked like a meeting and left behind all the evidence in it? \_ Because he's EVUUUUL I tell you, EVUUUUL!
 2001/12/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Recreation/Celebrity/BritneySpears] UID:23235 Activity:nil 12/12 Osama bin Laden has displaced Pamela Lee Anderson in cyberspace and people looking for information about the American flag outnumbered those curious about Britney Spears. For the first time in the short history of the Internet, popular search engines report that "sex" dropped off their lists of top 10 search terms in the days following the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. (Reuters, Sep. 20 '01) \_ Why is this being posted now? \_ URL please? \_ "popular search engines". Which ones? Stop posting techie stuff from idiotic non-techie sources like Reuters. That's like going to slashdot to get legal info or political news.
 2001/12/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:23211 Activity:insanely high 12/10 What is the big deal with John Walker? \_ When you grow up in America and are taught/shown/experience why secular govt, freedom of religion, (classical) liberalism, and capitalism (i.e. "consumerism") are actually good things, someone who attends terrorist camps and shoots at Americans is fucking annoying and a traitor to the blessings he was born with. \_ You've made my point, from the opposing point of view, better than I could have myself. \_ You're too smart for me. Could you say that again using common simple grammatical structure a 5th grader could understand? \_ Plus he's white. \_ yes, that's why it's being made into a big deal. \_ If he was anything but Arab it would have been a big deal. How much bigger a deal would it have been if his ancestors were from, oh... say... Japan? Get over the hate-whitey thing. \_ Actually, if he were an American of Arab descent, i think it would be an even bigger deal. \_ I disagree. It's the photos of a pale disheveled white guy that made the news. If it was an american of arab descent, we would just call him an muslim who happened to speak english and spent time in the states.
 2001/11/15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:23050 Activity:nil 11/15 man take your sick anti-loyal trash to North Korea. stupid so-called 'conscience objectors" like you should try living there and see if you can produce this kind of self- destructive thought. (Voluntarily decline supporting your own military?!?) It sickens me that sickos like you are protected by the 1st Amendment. \_ "Love it or leave it" and "My country right or wrong". Your opinions are invalid. Man take your sick fanatic nationalist trash to North Dakota. Jesus H. Christ, man, please get a fucking clue. -John \_ good point! you tell 'em! \_ Not to defend the other guy (I missed what he said anyway), but what you're trying to say is, 1st Amendment is good as long as you're patriotic and you don't voice a dissenting opinion. \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1657000/1657368.stm Mullah Omar notes a larger plan for the destruction of America. He says, with God's help, this will occur in a short period of time. He asks you keep in mind this prediction. \_ Sort of like Nostradomus. \_ Sort of like Osama. \_ I dug up the original post from the archives. It was the standard anti-war protester meeting from the usual suspects. I don't see why it got this big response or what NK has to do with it.
 2001/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Industry/Startup] UID:23017 Activity:nil 11/12 America's most hated man: Osama bin Laden America's most hated woman: Carly Fiorina \_ why is Carly a bitch? Explain... \_ and why is she getting more flak than, say, McNealy. I mean, her company is still in the black, unlike Scotty. \_ Because McNealy hasn't done anything nearly as stupid as attempting to buy out Compaq. \_ Strong women are always hated by weak men. \_ Here comes the feminazi crowd. No, dear one, when she first got the job, everyone in industry applauded. Now that she's fighting hard to destroy the same company, everyone is coming down on her. Welcome to the real world of meritocracy: good stuff for doing good, bad stuff for doing bad. I think you can understand that. Pick up a newspaper and put down the psycho babble pseudo literature. You'll learn more from the business section. \_ Don't lie, you always hated her. \_ No I had barely heard of her before she took over but since I wasn't a shareholder I didn't care. I _do_ recognise that her takeover plans are idiotic and it has nothing to do with her gender. \_ As an employee, I strongly sided with her in the first year. She seemed to be making the right moves and morale climbed. Now, well, it feels pretty shitty around here. \_ BC she's working at hard as she can to destroy the company? \_ Second that. Compaq is the company of death.
 2001/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23012 Activity:very high 11/12 http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml For those who still think he didn't admit to anything and the US needs "proof" of something. \_ How convenient. It's not there. \_ Works fine for me. -mice \_ IE takes awhile to render the page. give it a minute. \_ Yes, I fabricated a bad link to prove something. Me and Elvis (from his spaceship) and the CIA are in cahoots to fool you by posting bad links. It's there.
 2001/11/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23004 Activity:high 50%like:22386 11/12 check news sources. mysterious nyc plane crash. no useful data. \_ Who would want to blow up a flight to the Domnican Republic? \_ It's not where it's going. It's the fuel it's carrying. \_ Woah, don't make such assumptions just yet. \_ And to crash it into a house? Mmmmkay. \_ The one that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 crashed into the middle of nowhere too. \_ Well, the flight controllers said there were no unusual communications (or lack of) at all, unlike the the three planes on 911. \_ Since all the parts are on the ground somewhere, it'll take a few days or maybe weeks but they've got everything they need to figure out if it was a bomb or simple mechanical error or whatever.
 2001/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:23001 Activity:very high 11/10 BBC reports bin laden admits 9/11 bombings. threatens to use nuclear device or chemical weapons on silicon valley 11/13 \_ in the 1950's poeple observed that one good aspect of sprawl is it's resistance to nuclear attack. If you look at kill radii of different nuclear weapons and look at a map of silicon vally, you will see that they could only make the smallest of dents, at least in the short term. \_ why the hell would they blow up silicon valley. We don't even supply weapons. LA (Boeing, Lockheed, Loral, Rockwell, etc) should be one that deserves to be blown up, not us. \_ Lots of military contractors in the Valley, plus it's the center of recent American capitalism \_ and how were the WTC towers military targets? \_ sorry, he said california, not specifically sv \_ URL? \_ Can't find it on bbc or cnn. Silicon Valley has an overinflated sense of importance. \_ That may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that BL sp threatened to nuke/gas SV "if the US does it first". I've found a couple articles on ABC that mention it, and a detailed article on CNN. It's not that hard to find. \_ where does bin laden ever claim responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? \_ STFW \_ I did STFW, and the latest piece of news I saw on the subject was a recent interview where he, yet again, denies any involvement. \_ Indeed. He denies involvement and we have produced no evidence of it. Trust the government, they know what is best for you. \_ Nah, I d rather trust some muslim nutcase. \_ url???
 2001/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22996 Activity:high 11/9 When the Taliban asked to see the evidence of bin Laden's guilt, why did our gov't refuse? \_ becuase when Clinton gave evidence that was very clear, they just shrugged it off. (the african embassy bombings) \_ yes, they said there's nothing they can do since he is there guest \_ Any good links to this? I want to read more about it. \_ http://www.google.com It's everywhere. \_ what's wrong with you? are you pro-taliban or something? the taliban has no intension to turn over bin laden. so why do we bother give them hard evidence? besides, bin laden is wanted even before 911. U.S. has to take military action. Do you think you can sit there and tell the terrorists to submit themselves? One good example is the bible has been around and preached for thousands of years, there are still terrorists. So those who oppose the U.S. action suggest us just sit around and forget 911 ever happened? \_ Because the US has no proof. This whole thing was cooked up by the CIA to keep Bush in power in strengthen their role. \_ And the CIA and Bigfoot are in cahoots with Castro and Elvis from his space ship to take over the world! \_ Our leaders want to get some "quick results", and they have faith in our vastly superior military prowess to attain it. Only capturing or killing Bin Laden ourselves is satisfying enough. Bin Laden ending up in some Taliban negotiated international court just doesn't cut it. They want a total victory and infinite justice, to hell with a few collaterally damaged human lives or a little starvation in Afghanistan. \_ They weren't going to turn him over then, now, or ever to anyone. \_ How would you know? The Taliban may be harsh and fanatic, but they are not unprincipled. That's why they stopped opium growing in Afghanistan in spite of the fact that it earned the country a lot of money. Khaddafi (spelling?) gave up the terrorist who bombed a British plane.
 2001/11/2 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22903 Activity:high 11/1 Gov. Davis warns major Calif. bridges may be targeted next. http://www.bayarea.com/c/breaking/docs/bridge110101.htm \_ Davis wants the terrorists to bomb the bridges so that he can get free air time like Guillian (sp?) did. \_Gilligan? \_ "Giuliani". I recited the spelling several times before I could remember it. \_ Yes, and it was the Jews who bombed the WTC. \_ You know, a WHOLE LOT of people actually believe that. \_ Conspiracy theory? \_ could the terrorist change target easily ... like head the plane to the Berkeley campus? \_ why would they? berkeley is on the terrorists side. \_ obviously, there can be no nuclear terrorism in berkeley, because of the "nuclear free zone" signs. we just need to put up "terrorist free zone" signs as well. i'm sure the city council is voting on it right now. \_ Not planes, large hazardous materials trucks! \_ Beware of abandoned rental trucks! \_ Berkeley profs/students are not worth killing. They're just a bunch of Linux/bike-riding/ultra-lefty phreaks. All talk & protest-- no action. \_ Furthermore, Berkeley is anti-military-retaliation regarding 9/11, so the Taliban probably even want to keep them alive. \_ Whereas God-fearing American think all Berkeleyannis should be dragged into some street and cluster-bomb-fucked. \_ that's my point. Why only the bridges? If they want to just attack, there are so many alternatives if the terrorists simply wants to strike terror. I fail to see what Davis is trying to do. Shouldn't he just catch those terrorists to prevent the attack? Assuming that he can't, he is telling the terrorists to change targert/date. On one hand, we have Ashcroft (sp?) saying terrorists activities are coming but he can't let us know details, and on the other hand the Governor of California says he knows where the terrorists are coming and are warning us (and warning the terrorists to strike a different target). Does anyone else feel there is an irony here? Unless our government feel that the terrorist are dumber than they are. \_ If catching the terrorists was that easy, he'd have done it by now and wouldn't bother with announcing a threat. \_ Davis just wants some of the attention. \_ Comments like this are why the motd continues to be content free. \_ Comments like this are why you should go away.
 2001/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22854 Activity:high 10/28 Doesn't get much better than this... http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/558735/posts \_ Someone who takes that long obviously doesn't have a point to make. \_ Can you identify any errors in what Rep. Barr says? \_ can you say filibuster?
 2001/10/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic] UID:22753 Activity:high 10/16 There's an old saying: A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. Well, a hawk is a liberal who's been targeted for death by al Qaeda. \_ Well no. A liberal that's been targeted for death by a terrorist group is just a dead liberal. \_ A liberal is a conservative who has lost $1M in the bubble. \_ Yeah investing in the market between 96 and 2001 was strictly limited by political affiliation. \_ Yeah, like breaking everyone's political affiliation into one of two groups is any less stupid.  2001/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22722 Activity:nil 10/12 Stop bothering me! I am NOT a terrorist! \_ trial by fire! \_ Prove it! \_ Let's tie a boulder to your penis and drop you in the ocean. If you're a terrorist, you should be able to escape. If not, well, sorry about the misunderstanding. \_ There is an implicit assumption in this statement... \_ Ever read about the witchhunts? \_ if you're not a terrorist, then prove it by naming someone else on the system who is one. \_ J'accuse! \_ evil-doer => liar! \_ Trial by cross!  2001/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22719 Activity:nil 57%like:22470 10/12 Bin Laden uses PayPal!!! News at 11.  2001/10/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22715 Activity:nil 10/12 "Bush Freezes More Terror Assets" http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011012/ts/terrorist_money.html What's the use of globally freezing$24M, not all of which being bin Laden's money, when bin Laden personally owns $300M? \_ Because he isn't carrying it in his wallet and it isn't in a single Wells Fargo account with his name on it. \_ Don't you know he keeps it under his mattress. That is until the taliban completes construction of his money bin.  2001/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:22668 Activity:low 10/8 Second case of anthrax in Florida, this time near where Mohammed Atta lived. News at 11. \_Both worked for the National Enquirer and Sun (and had recent contact with "Batboy" presumably). http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/10/08/florida.anthrax.case  2001/9/23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22598 Activity:very high 9/20 Who wants to start a "what day does the bombing begin" pool? \_ That was one of the most fun things we did in the coop, for the Haiti invasion (until Carter fuffed it for everyone.) If only for all the self-righteous cave people it pissed off. -John \_ Yeah, now I see why www access to motd.public was removed. \_ eh? whatchew smokin fool? \_ crack. lots and lots of crack. \_ Now, if I had said "who wants to start a 'how many civilian casualties will the US cause in its bombing campaign' pool?" you might have a point. But I did not. \_ http://www.debka.com \_ I don't think you'll see the sort of bombing you're looking for. I think this is going to be like a new Cold War. This time the opposing philosophy is a twisted version of extremist Islam. Last time it was communism. In 10 to 15 years after the fundamentalist muslims are crushed and their children are listening to the latest off the Top 40 charts, we'll have a few years of peace before some one else steps up to the plate to take a swing. It's the price of freedom. \_ Maybe the fundamentalists are right about us being the devils. \_ Maybe? So you think a bunch of civilian killing, zero freedom dictatorships are morally superior to a democratically elected most-free market economy with a \_ I read that as motd-free. free press, open travel for citizens, the right to criticise the government without fear of death or imprisonment? You're either a troll or insane. \_ I vote for "joking" \_ how about "Which U.S. city gets nuked first?" \_ I'll take that bet. My answer: none. A little anthrax crop dusting through a few east bay districts would wake a up a few people though. Those that survived....  2001/9/22 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22586 Activity:moderate 9/21 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/gen.airlines.arabs.removed \_ Idiot Americans ask innocent people to leave airplanes because they are perceived to be Middle Easterners. Get a fucking clue, people. \_ As opposed to idiot Middle Easterners killing innocent people with airplanes because they are perceived to be Americans. \_ zing \_ sigh. of course you know, radical German terrorists or perhaps even militia members will have a field day (no one will be watching them). \_ radical German terrorists? who are they and what do they want? \_ didn't you see lebowski? they're nihilists! they want NOTHING! \_ hey man....nice ferret. \_ The Dude abides, man. The Dude abides.  2001/9/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22578 Activity:kinda low 9/21 I heard rumors that some of the arrested terrorist suspects also bought air tickets for 9/22. Does nyone read aobut this in news articles? I searched in Yahoo News but didn't find anything. Thx. \_ that was for the return flight. \_ But I heard those already died bought one-way tickets.  2001/9/21 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22562 Activity:high 9/20 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010920/us/attacks_cybertrail_1.html CIA used to keep track of bin Laden by voiceprint and sat phone. \_That's not news. Even Osama knows about it. That's why he stopped using most forms of modern communication. There was an article at http://cnn.com that mentioned that these days he communicates with people by exchanding floppy disks with encypted data on them.  2001/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22531 Activity:nil 9/19 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/gen.hate.crimes Your average redneck out looking to beat up someone can't tell the difference between Indians and Arabs. Especially Sikhs. \_ Aw man. As a redneck looking to beat up people, I'm embarassed now.  2001/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22529 Activity:high 9/19 There is a country that harbors terrorists. The terrorists plant bombs killing innocent people for radical religious beliefs. Within that country there are even debates about the truthfullness of these religious beliefs. We need to fight a war on terrorism... Is the country Afghanistan and the terrorists Osama-following Muslims? No, its the US and the terrorists are extreme pro-lifers. Kind of ironic how Jerry Faldwell claims in both cases that the abortion- ists brought it upon themselves. - rory \_ separate the pro-lifers who are peaceful vs. the pro-lifers who do violence. The violent ones are a very small minority and do not represent the mainstream pro-lifer who are peaceful. You are stereotyping and prejudging. You have the sort of attititudes that we are trying to fight in this present time. The US does try to convict anyone who does violence such as bombing abortion clinics. The real violence (which does include the terrorist attacks on the WTC) includes the legalized lethal violence against unborn men and women of America. We condone violence against our own, including those who are the most vulnerable, innocent, and need our protection the most. \_ Watch out.. any messages that don't tow the Party line get censored. Free speech only for libs. \_ It's "toe the line" you ignorant boor. \_ Clearly you have the attitudes we are trying to fight in this time by not being able to see the symmetry in this situation. Fine, I agree that violent pro-lifers are a small minority... But you, and most other Americans it seems, need to realize that violent terrorists are a very small minority in countries that violent terrorists are very small minorities in \_ a more apt example would be the Klu Klux Klan, which we like Afghanistan... my point. \_ I agree that terrorists are a minority in ANY country. Be careful how you characterize certain groups though. \_ and thus, it is as ridiculous to talk about bombing parts of the US to get abortion terrorists as it is to talk about "attacking Afghanistan" to get WTC terrorists. ... at least, it should be. \_ I recall the Blank Panthers once wrote a letter to the City of \_ The US government doesn't harbor abortion clinic bombers. Note the difference and try again. \_ we'll see how the military/political/economic campaign turns out. For all you know, it is just rhetoric. Its all speculation right now. \_ a more apt example would be the Ku Klux Klan, which we \_ a more apt example would be the Klu Klux Klan, which we haven't managed to stamp out entirely, but whose terrorist activities have been curtailed. unfortunately they continue to spew hate which feeds into similar groups in other countries, like the neo-nazis in europe. \_ doesn't the first amendment protect the KKK's speech (as opposed to KKK's violence)? I'm not trying \_ doesn't the first amendment protect the KKK? I'm not trying to go against you. Just asking people. \_ I recall the Black Panthers once wrote a letter to the City of \_ I recall the Blank Panthers once wrote a letter to the City of New York to support KKK's rights of free speech a year or two ago. \_ yes, and it is a fine line between speech and conspiracy to commit violence. i hope we can maintain the balance of our principles in the current case. \_ Klu? Or lack thereof. It's "KU" not "KLU". -ali \_ fixed. amazing i spelled the rest ok that early in the AM. \_ The KKK is essentially dead in this country. At best they're just another fringe group with a bad website. who do violence. The violent ones are a small minority. You are stereotyping, the sort of things which get people in trouble in this society.  2001/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:22507 Activity:insanely high 9/18 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7215723.html?tag=mn_hd " U.S. citizens back encryption controls " Right, only American companies can write encryption code/product, and the intelligence failure to warn the attack is due to, or partly due to encryption products! Classical "not my fault" syndrome. Let's ban commercial airlines because their planes are used in the attack. Let's ban all knives because they are used in the attack. \_ lets ban all people because they were used in the attack. \_ Let's ban religion. religion is the root of the Northern Ireland \_ Try economics. There's not much that was ever perpetrated solely because of religion. People aren't that pious, no matter what they may say. conflict, Palestine, Pakistan/India, and various historical atrocities. Not to mention the Holocaust, Cyprus, Kosovo, etc. atrocities. That's the one thing I didn't mind about China and USSR. Freedom FROM religion. I guess I don't mind Buddhists. They never slaughter anyone. (right? i'd be interested to learn otherwise.) \_ Tibetan Buddhism was the state religion of the Mongol Khans, \_ Tibetan Buddhism was the state religion of the the Mongol Khans, possibly the most murderous forces in known history. Zen Buddhism, as connected with Imperial Shinto during the years leading up to the Japanese expansion, was part and parcel with the philosophy that guided that set of warriors. \_ So is there such a thing as a religion that doesn't have significant blood on its hand? \_ Quakers? \_ Well, I see that as just being their personal philosophy, and not something that actively caused strife. I mean, I don't think they cared what religion other people were when they were conquering them, they just wanted to conquer them. That's good, honest conquest. They weren't haters. \_ Imperial Shinto? Zen Buddhism is very different from Shinto. What is your source? \_ The Shaolin monks in ancient China once fought for an emperor in the Tang dynasty against rebels in the region. I think in return the emperor gave the Shaolin temples exclusive rights among all Buddist temples to openly practise martial arts, or something like that. But that you can say they fought for a good cause. in the Tang dynasty against rebels in the region. But that you can say they fought for a good cause. \_ yeah, nothing wrong with that. no hatred, no frothy fervor. \_ lets ban the internet in the US! I guess I don't mind Buddhists and Hindus. They never slaughter anyone. I guess I don't mind Pengiuns. They never slaughter anyone. That's good, honest conquest.  2001/9/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22499 Activity:insanely high 9/17 A word from the next generation. Berkeley HS students speak: http://www.alamedatimesstar.com/S-ASP-Bin/Ref/Index.asp?PUID=609&Indx=1090676 \_ Ahh, the virtues of the modern PC public school system, teaching our youth first and foremost to be victims and teaching first and foremost our youth to be victims and dependent on the federal government. \_ Nah, they're just too young to understand the seriousness of it all. It's the self-centeredness that hits most teenagers at some point in their lives. \_ Yup. Wait till their sweetie boyfriends/girlfriends are killed by terrorists and then see what they say. It's place without 5 billion people). \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal. Guess those 5 billion people are less equal? depressing to see how self-centered teenages are these days. I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and they drive me crazy. I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and their lack of concern on others drives me crazy. killed by terrorists and then see what they say. \_ aah the virutes of cointelpro. tell me, do you really believe, that you could prove, in a court of law, that afghanistan is responsible? Will the surrender of afghanistan stop terrorism? (caveat; but then again the world would be a better place without 6 billion people). \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb place without 5 billion people). \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal. Guess those 5 billion people are less equal? \_ i think the total world's population is 5 billion. \_ World population is 6B. There are 1B muslims. \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb  2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36321 Activity:nil 9/17 Someone posted a very informative link about bin laden including where he was last known to be, etc. I thought i book-marked it but... Anyway. Would anyone who has it please repost. thanks. \_ maybe http://www.msnbc.com/news/627355.asp  2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36318 Activity:nil 9/17 I've been reading news stories from 1998 that say that bin Laden is suspected to have major ties to gum arabic companies in Sudan. (Gum arabic is an ingredient in many colas and candies.) Anybody know anything more about this? Do we still have an embargo on Sudan? If so, from where do we get our gum arabic? \_ Sudan, smuggling. Quit eating candy, you arab terrorist commie bastard. -John  2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36312 Activity:nil 52%like:36311 9/17 Osama bin Laden will be released to the U.S. ... In less than a month: . When Allied forces have arrived: Never / he'll be killed first:  2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36311 Activity:nil 53%like:23257 52%like:36312 9/17 MOTD POLL: Osama bin Laden will be released to the U.S. ... In less than a month: . When Allied forces have arrived: Never / he'll be killed first: ... \_ Obviously this is the division operator! \_ These are two different things. Never != killed. I wonder how long he can go without getting caught. It's been years already although there hasn't been a huge effort to nab him. Also, I read he has has some sort of liver/kidney(?) problems so he might just keel over on his own anyway. \_ he's a hypochondriac and not actualy sick. he has a doctor in his possee too (according to the cia blurb on msnbc)  2001/9/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22493 Activity:high 9/17 Question: To those of you opposed to various military actions, what do you propose the US do? I understand the objection(s) to military response. I'm not debating that. What action(s) do you propose we take instead? I'm looking for serious responses. Please, I'm not looking for answers in the negative as to what we shouldn't do. I honestly want to know what you think we should be doing, if anything. Concrete stuff, not simply "follow international law" and other fuzzy stuff like that. Thanks. \_ my position on the subject is that "war" is completely the wrong concept to invoke because it's an extremely loaded word with lots of consequences. i think what you want is to ARREST the group of international bandits using whatever means necessary. war is an overraction. this was not an act of war. this was a criminal murder. you need two nations for war, with citizens and soldiers. what you have is a bunch of renegades. Go arrest them and all this anger will be dealt with properly. -ali \_ But most of these renegades have support from one of a variety of middle eastern nations. arresting a specific group may eliminiate one cell, but it does not solve the problem -- as long as the support is there, the terrorists will continue to exist. If someone is harboring a criminal, they implicitly become accomplices; if a national entity is harboring these criminals....what do you suggest? Asking nicely hasn't turned up any real results thus far, and violating another nation's sovereignity is an act of war... -mice sovereignity (crossing their borders w/o permission to make an arrest) is an act of war... -mice \_ Most of them come from saudialabia and uae, whose dictatorship governments are very friendly to us. Doesn't that tell u something? \_ Yes, that you're not very well informed. \_ nuke pakistan \_ Pakistan appears to be cooperating. Why do you want to nuke a potential ally in the area which likely has intelligence information on bin Laden? \_ let's do the aghgan people a favor and take out the taliban. they are oppressive even to their own kind. no nukes just invade and set up a new government and hand it over to saudi arabia or or india. \_ I agree. Taking out the talibananas would be a favor for the afghan people, but it may be costly for us. Still it's a good cause. However do not hand it over to banana republics like saudialabia or hindostan, but hand it to banana republics like saudialabia or indo, but hand it to UK or Japan. \_ yah. hand it over to the gaps of the world, or the old navies \_ I agree. Taking out the talibananas would be a favor for the afghan people, but it may be costly for us. Still it's a good cause. However do not hand it over to banana republics like saudialabia or hindostan, but hand it to UK or Japan. \_ oh yeah, cool... let's overthrow another gov't like we tried to do in Nicaragua, etc. \_ If the Taliban is harboring terrorists, then that's precisely what we will do. \_ I think we need to bomb a few random deserted place in Afghanistan without killing civilians just to show that we are committed to military retaliation. This won't actually do anything to get us bin mility retaliation. This won't actually do anything to get us bin Laden, but it'll settle national anger and keep our face. After that, pump all the resources into CIA and do the real work of getting bin Laden and destroying the terrorist network. We need to revise the ban on CIA assasination as well. (I'm not debating whether or not CIA is all screw-up and is worth re-vitalizing. It just happens to be the agency we have at this moment.) just happens to be the agency we have on hand at this moment.) \_ Moron. Many terrorist camps are near civilian settlements. Why kill off people who are innocent bystanders and could tell is where the bad guys are? \_ Change US policy over time to not support Israel? Not something I believe, but maybe others do. \_ Doesn't this just "reward" the terrorists for their actions by giving them what they want? How would this discourage further violence against us to further shift our policy until our policy becomes whatever they want because we fear them? \_ Yeah, I think so... I agree with the previous poster's statement though... I think we need to get Osama et. al. through diplomacy, intelligence, etc and additionally evaluate our actions that were creating this climate of terrorism (eg stop giving money to Israel). \_ You can't think that way. That's the attitude of a brat who refuses to stop doing something because his pride won't let him admit he was wrong. IF something is wrong for us we should stop. Such as our own support of terrorism in the past, and Israel's support of of terrorism in the past...read up on what they were doing to get the British out. \_ Get the British out of where? \_ Israel. Duh. King David hotel, Semiramis hotel (bombing leading to collapse of building). Other stuff like: http://www.jerusalemites.org/sabra.html It's hard to find objective sources on any of it though. \_ Sure I can think that way. Here's another way to think of it: the nagging brat who screams until his mother gives in to his demand for the new power ranger toy. Then he wants the other ones. So he screams. Then he wants a bigger cookie, then another cookie, then no curfew or bedtime, then he wants.... When does it stop? If mom had punished his poor behavior (the screaming) at stage one, then the lack of reward would, in time, cease his screaming fits. How's that for an alternative line of thought on the psychology of children and terrorists? \_ I said "IF SOMETHING IS WRONG FOR US." Dimwit. Demanding cookies isn't a valid analogy for any case of terrorism I can think of. \_ What do we get out of supporting Israel? \_ We need to get little boy Yasser and little boy Sharon together and keep spanking their arses until they agree to stop their bitch fight. Aren't the Arabs and Jews fucking relatives? Don't understand why we should be suffering for their darn family feud. Fucking create problems for the whole world. just to show that we are committed to mility retaliation. This won't actually do anything to get us bin Laden, but it'll settle national anger and keep our "face". After that, pump all the resources into CIA and do the real work of getting bin Laden and destroying the terrorist network. We need to revise the ban on CIA assasination as well. (I'm not debating whether or not CIA is all screw-up and is worth re-vitalizing. It just happens to be the agency we have on hand at this moment.) \_ it's a war, if we don't do anything to take out a government that hides behind a terrorist group then we are inviting nations to create terrorist groups (but really working for their government's interests) where their government can easily detach themselves but in actuality they support them. We have to show this is B.S. and any nation that harbors terrorist is using this terrorist group as their own weapon their darn family feud. their darn family feud. Fucking create problems for the whole world.  2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22489 Activity:high 9/16 "The deputy secretary of state, Paul Wolfowitz, said that 'the whole civilised world has been shocked... and even portions of the uncivilised world have started to wonder whether they're on the wrong side.'" \_ url? \_ http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,552381,00.html \_ While you're at the guardian, read this too: http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,552785,00.html \_ Why do you keep posting garbage from the guardian. Let me give the guardian exegesis: "America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians the Guardian's exegesis: "America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians and 'repressed' people are good. Now let me ramble on about some socialist utopia because I like to hear myself talk." the Guardian's exegesis: "America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians and 'repressed' people are good. Now let me ramble on about some socialist utopia because I like to hear myself talk." [ reformatted - motd formatting daemon ] Except these are the same fucks that thrive in a society protected by the post WWII 'dirty' foreign policy of the US. They offer no plausible alternative (because there are very few), they just critisize. are very few), they just criticize. are very few), they just criticize. For what its worth, even the Quaran acknowledges Jews have a right to live in Canaan (Isreal). They offer no plausible alternative (because there are very few), they just criticize. For what its worth, even the Quaran acknowledges Jews have a right to live in Canaan (Isreal). \_ You're an idiot. \_I reciprocate the sentiment petulant traitorous twit. \_ Hi racist Jew! You've been causing quite the ruckus lately. \_ So you deny the Quaran and Bible grant Canaan to Jews and Arabia to the Muslims. BTW I love Buchanan. and Arabia to the Muslims. BTW I'm a Buchanan fan. \_ These postings are interesting because the offer a different perspective than the mainstraim American press has offered so far. perspective than what the mainstraim American press has offered so far. As for the British, I think they would differ with your assesment that they are ungrateful for the efforts of the USj assesment that they are ungrateful for the efforts of the US during WWII. -payam \_ I said Guardian not British subjects. \_ I think the Guardian would beg to differ also. -payam \_ No different than what you can find in the slightly-out-of- mainstream American press like Salon, etc. What bothers me about many of these types of articles is how the authors try to throw in *every* *single* *thing* they don't like about the US into the mix: Nicaragua/the Contras; US non-ratification of the Kyoto treaty; walking out of the hijacked Durban racism conference; "well, garwsh, that just proves all that money we spent on missle defense sure was a waste, wasn't it?" I knew that US activities abroad were often shameful, bloody, and contradictory *before* the WTC bombing, thanks. I don't need some snide European (or a snide wannabe- European) writing condescending articles about what he *thinks* I don't know right now. Still, if people want to write articles on how US policy in the Middle East has contributed to terrorism, that's their right. But when so- called "journalists" use the deaths of 5,000 people to poke sticks at America for every pet cause under the sun, that's shameless, crass opportunism. I don't think that bin Laden struck last week because he was upset about us not ratifying the Kyoto treaty. \_ Why don't you think about these pictures while you read these these articles http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba3a5665fbd.htm http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba1fbd33a84.htm \_ while the Kyoto protocol may not have anything to do with the WTC bombing, it's perfectly relevant in that it shows how US foreign polic \_ While the Kyoto protocol may not have had anything to do with the WTC bombing, it's perfectly relevant in that it shows how the US believes it can "go it alone" on anything. Of course, if there's something we want to do, we twist everyone else's arm to join our side or suffer crossing the world's last "superpower." \_ I hope by "uncivilised world" Wolfowitz wasn't referring to the whole Islamic or Arab world. \_ I hope by "the uncivilised world" Wolfowitz wasn't referring to the whole Islamic world or the whole Arab world.  2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22488 Activity:high 9/16 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/16/1647231 How to defend your privacy and freedom -- and why you need to do this TODAY. Deadline: next Friday. \_ how should I send my letter? I know e-mail seems more impersonal than snail mailed letters. what about faxes? I assume that the USPS is not back to full operating capacity. \_ should I fax or snail mail my letter? I assume that the post office isn't back to full capacity yet. \_ (USPS ~= Faxes) >> email. For some Senators/Reps, USPS==Fax. Most folks in Congress aren't very technically clued, and don't give nearly as much weight to email as something that actually comes in on paper. If you can actually get your Congress Person on the phone, or make an appointment at their local office, that's even better. Probably the best way to do this is to request that they schedule a phone conference or meeting in a letter sent by mail or fax. letter sent by mail or fax. As the poster above indicated, USPS is probably right out if it needs to get there RSN, so fax. If you don't own a fax, most copy shops will let you fax things for$0.50-$1.00 per page. -dans \_ Dan's assesment of USPS/faxes is right. A personal phone call is better than either. If possible, a personal visit to their office in CA or DC is even better. This assessment coming from talking to someone who once worked as a congressional aide. -alexf \_ Dan's assesment of email vs snailmail/faxes is right. A personal phone call is better than either. If possible, a personal visit to their office in CA or DC is even better. This assessment coming from talking to someone who once worked as a congressional aide. -alexf talking to someone who once worked as a congressional aide. -alex \- congresspeople ignore stuff not wrapped to <80 cols --psb  2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22482 Activity:insanely high 9/15 The state of america today "There are two nations and cultures now living under the star-spangled banner." http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba4761c269f.htm \_ "ramble"  2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:22478 Activity:insanely high 9/16 This is the most sober article reporting on the events: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,551036,00.html -ali. \_ Yeah, i've been using the guardian as a source since the US papers have resorted to yellow journalism. This is a good article. \_ Fuck you you TRAITOROUS piece of shit. The author is probably Neville Chamberlains grandson. \_ The USA, like most countries in a position of hegemony, whether it wants to or not, has done some pretty questionable things. Likewise, some of our policies, while not "bad" per se, were at least poorly thought through, and have had bad results. To discount those is not a wise idea if you want to at least be able to understand (not justify, mind you) the terrible actions you see from terrorists. It's unfortunate, though, that it's so difficult for a lot of people to distinguish bad acts from evil ones, and that any questioning of these acts is immediately interpreted as a condemnation of the US... -John \_ It's one thing to question Billy Bob's bombing of Serbia, its a whole other matter to slam America and the values for which she stands. \_ What does that make you? McCarthy's protoge? \_ Do yourself and this country a favor and pick up a history book. \_ "Beware of being drawn off from the truth, either by the worldly prudence of half-hearted professors, or by pretences to merit in the self-righteous Pharisee." \_ "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. - the lord \_ let me get this straight. you're calling me a traitor because i'm espousing an article that is trying to motivate americans to become better acquainted with their country's foreign policy? listen, dimwit, i'm telling you should find out what your country is doing. and you're calling me a traitor. go look up traitor, and then go look up the words dimwit and nimrod. then decide which of these adjectives apply to which of the two of us. -ali \_ In his fervor to rationalize, almost justify, the attacks, Milne betrays his socialist, Anti-American (and West) pro-militant Islamism dogma. That you would applaud such an article suggests either that yes, like Milne, you are a seditionist, or that you're understanding of history is painfully naive or critically misinformed. \_ --wait... ali said dimwit AND nimrod. Could someone please change the file permissions of the motd?! quick! \_ yes, clearly ali is inciting a riot. \_ call it what you want, but putting armed guards at airports and all of the other Draconian measures that are going to get and all of the other Draconian measures that are going to crammed down our throats in the next fews months will only be dealing with the symptoms, and not the real problem. and no, I don't necessarily disagree with more stringent security at airports, but we could very easily get a lot of our constitutional rights trampled on for no good reason. is probably Neville's Chamerlains grandson. is probably Neville's Chamberlains grandson. - thelord  2001/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22471 Activity:nil 9/15 The NSA is falling behind the terrorists: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/21047.html  2001/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22470 Activity:high 57%like:22406 57%like:22423 57%like:22719 50%like:23057 50%like:23376 9/15 rm /bin/Laden \_ better is rm -f /bin/laden \_ better still is chmod a+x /bin/laden \_ I don't get this one - clueless \_ it;s because people are guessing that bin laden is "executable", without much in the way of proof.  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Recreation/Humor] UID:36292 Activity:nil 9/12 whoa. wcbs right now is funny, the commentator on the newscorp is goading all his guests: "Why wait, when we have a bunch of Sherlock Holmes going on, that we can't just bomb Afghanistan? We KNOW it's Bin Laden!"  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36289 Activity:nil 65%like:22433 1460 "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb, the third big war will begin when the big city is burning" -Nostradamous 9/14 I wish I was writing many of you under better circumstances, but as many of you know, I am an employee of Lehman Brothers in NYC and my office is located at 1 World Trade Center (the one with the antenna) on the 38th floor. I had been at the office since 6:45am because of meetings, and yes, I was in the building when it all happened. www.tribrothers.com/brian/wtc.html 9/14 Passengers on board the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in rural Pennsylvania Tuesday apparently decided to attack the terrorists who had commandeered the plane, according to family members of one passenger. http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html \_ this is very heartening to hear. 9/14 Passengers on board the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in rural Pennsylvania Tuesday apparently decided to attack the terrorists who had commandeered the plane, according to family members of one passenger. http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html \_ this is very heartening to hear.  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22433 Activity:very high 65%like:36289 9/14 Passenger Mark Bingham (on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania) was a '94 or '95 Cal grad. Contrary to news that said he was flying out to California on business, he was also coming out to be the usher at a wedding of another Cal student (this from a friend of mine who worked at 1 WTC, but who was outside the building at the time of the crash) 9/14 I wish I was writing many of you under better circumstances, but as many of you know, I am an employee of Lehman Brothers in NYC and my office is located at 1 World Trade Center (the one with the antenna) on the 38th floor. I had been at the office since 6:45am because of meetings, and yes, I was in the building when it all happened. www.tribrothers.com/brian/wtc.html 9/14 Passengers on board the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in rural Pennsylvania Tuesday apparently decided to attack the terrorists who had commandeered the plane, according to family members of one passenger. http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html \_ He was a three time rugby champion with Cal. \_ Which means he's probably one of the people who fought the hijackers. \_ yup. there were supposedly around two to three people or so who were over six feet tall weighing more than 200 pounds /___________/ okay, so you got 3 people who are so tall that they need to crouch and so heavy that they have a hard time going through the isle fighting 5-6 crazy militant Arab guys who have trained their entire life for hand combat and could probably break your neck using bare hands. Good odds I tell ya. \_ How small are you? 6' 200lb, is fine except when sitting in coach seats. And I think you overstate the abilities of suicidal terrorists. They're not used to victims resisting. \_ I hear the plan was to fart and then sit on the terrorists. \_ In wake of recent events, every air traveler should be trained to break the necks of terrorists using their bare hands. It seems like an essential skill. \_ sounds like a theme for a Jet Li movie. 9/14 I wish I was writing many of you under better circumstances, but as many of you know, I am an employee of Lehman Brothers in NYC and my office is located at 1 World Trade Center (the one with the antenna) on the 38th floor. I had been at the office since 6:45am because of meetings, and yes, I was in the building when it all happened. www.tribrothers.com/brian/wtc.html 9/14 Passengers on board the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in rural Pennsylvania Tuesday apparently decided to attack the terrorists who had commandeered the plane, according to family members of one passenger. http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/index.html \_ this is very heartening to hear. \_ Another recount of the story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/09/13/MN18608.DTL  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22432 Activity:moderate 9/14 Some of us are anti-NSA people. But now that this has happened, have we changed our views about the role of NSA? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/09/13/national0614EDT0518.DTL \_ I'm not one of the heavily anti-NSA folks, but I might be after this. Why should we expand the powers of an agency that was apparently taken completely by surprise by this? I would suggest that perhaps the current set of agencies with their WWII-era agendas should be replaced with a new agency with a contemporary understanding of what to pay attention to. \_ Same to CIA. \_ silly sodans, who do you think would staff this "new" agency? \_ I volunteer you, to start with. Only some pinko commie would fail to rise to the challenge in our hour of need. \_ I volunteer to arrest anyone who uses the words "pinko commie" in a non-ironic sort of way. \_ Relax, I was just trying to make a point about how federal agencies end up the way they do. I do a lot of public sector related work. Good people like, perhaps, yourself, stay away because they mistrust the agencies. Granted my work is mainly with more mundane outfits like the Bureau of Indian Affairs or the Dept of Justice --ulysses \_ article says that the gov't lost top talent to the dot com's and other place. The gov't doesn't pay that much. \_ The pay issue is real, but the larger problem that I see that is my friends on the left and and the right disagree on everything except their disdain for the gov't and anybody who works for the gov't. Travesties like this will re-occur until something is done to re-establish some sense of respect for working for the gov't. I don't know if this is possible though. Things have gotten so bad. --ulysses \_ I don't have any disdain for the government. I just think they put way too much emphasis on high-tech/electronic surveillance which is great for collecting information from the Russian millitary and innocent US citizens but doesn't really do anything to stop terrorism. We need spies, not satellites and the government should pour more money into the CIA than it does into the NSA (not the other way around). \_ I could hardly argue, and I hope current events may bring others to that POV, as well. --ulysses \_ Point made. \_ I'd be willing to work for free if it means that this sort of bs can be prevented. I have to admit, based on my work experience at nasa I always though of gov't workers as lazy bums sitting on thier arses playing solitare and living off the labors of others (taxes). These types of individuals need to go. We can never again be complacent. Eternal vigilence is the price of freedom. a lot of public sector related work. --ulysses that this sort of bs can be prevented. \_ Israel has much better human intelligence capability. Don't know about the post-KGB Russia. \_ Israel has much better human intelligence capability. \_ So why don't they go after bin Laden for us? It's about time they did something for us for a change.  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22431 Activity:nil 9/13 http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/sep/13josy.htm  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22426 Activity:high 9/13 http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba02bf8631c.htm Read message 14 \_ 14(re israel) or 13(re russia)? \_ the numbering of the comments is really confusing. message 14 is about russia, not israel. (message 1 is the article itself.) \_ what part of 14 don't you understand? \_ what part of 14 don't you understand? I think the original poster was pointing out the second to last paragraph ("Two nights ago...")  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22424 Activity:nil 9/12 A decent article from a non-US source: http://rediff.com/news/2001/sep/12anil.htm  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22423 Activity:nil 57%like:22470 9/12 Interesting details about bin laden: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/binladen/binladen.shtml \_ Stupid phony ID. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/fall/murad9.html He forgot that the day goes before the month in British dates. -- yuen  2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:22421 Activity:high 9/12 This is probably the scariest thing I've read all day: http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001106 \_ I heard the FAA is going to add another question at the checkin counters: "Why are you travelling." Yeah, they're going to block the terrorists when they answer "Well, I'm planning to hijack this plane." I feel safe now. plane."  2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36288 Activity:nil 9/11 I found this educational: http://msnbc.com/news/627355.asp?cp1=1  2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36275 Activity:nil 9/12 Poll: hijack, bomb, etc will continue: ... this is the least horrific of the upcoming atrocities: . this is the last of the American terror: will be last if wipe out all terrorist completely - and destroy any new ones immediately: .. will be last if have one world governnment, put a mark on every person in the world to identify and locate everyone 100% of the time and track them: . \_ You sound like a terrorist to me. Unless you can prove otherwise, I'll have to wipe you out. \_tell that to the European Union, they'll do that one day  2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:36274 Activity:nil 9/12 Oliver Stone time. There is evidence that FDR was informed about a possible attack on Pearl Harbor and didn't do anything because he wanted the US to get involved in WWII. There is also evidence that the USS Greer was depth charging a german u boat under orders from Wilson and the Sec. Nav etc when it was attacked leading us into WWI. Is it possible that Bush knew and didn't do anything so that we could get involved in another war? Also consider the recovered "evidence" in Boston. That is such a setup, but by whom? The feds (fbi,cia), the administration, or the real terrorists trying to throw the investigators of the trail? \_ You are giving them too much credit. \_ The CIA did it to boost their budget. \_ Maybe so: http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/12/janes.underfunding/index.html  2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22406 Activity:high 57%like:22470 9/12 cleanup time: rm -rf /bin/laden \_ s/rm/kill/ \_ s/rm -rf/kill -9/ (terminate with extereme prejudice) \_ perhaps you meant "killall" \_ Now this would look good on the csua tee-shirt \_ -r? What is he, an executable directory? \_ rm -f /bin/laden is just fine  2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22402 Activity:high 9/11 I found this educational: http://msnbc.com/news/627355.asp?cp1=1 What I find unsettling is Pakistan's nuclear capability. I don't find it such a stretch to imagine bin Laden obtaining nuclear arms. Smuggling them into US population centers should not be too hard either with patience. \_ Well, then, perhaps we'd better get him before he can do that? \_ Because covert assassination is the AMERICAN WAY! \_ He attempted assassination on President of Egypt, PM of Pakistan and Crown Prince of Jordan, all of which Islamic countries? \_ If the "Star War" laser defense system were implementer, we could be using lasers to shoot at his mud huts at real time as soon as we locate him with certainty at a particular moment. \_ The lasers would just bake the mud, forming an impenetrable shield. Duh. \_ Okay, shoot the lasers when he's moving in his vehicles then. \_ Okay, shoot the lasers when he's moving between the mud huts in his vehicles then. \_ You just aren't listening. _Impenetrable_!!! \_ His vehicles running on open deserts are impenetrable? \_ what if he covers the roofs of his vehicles with impenetrable mud? you're screwed. \_ Lasers aren't the answer. Its particle beams and rail guns. We need space based weapons platforms NOW! \_ Orbital bombardment is the way to go.  2001/9/12 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22388 Activity:insanely high 57%like:21883 9/11 Motd poll, if you were on a terrorist hijacked plane and the terrorists were armed with knifes and cardboard cutters, would you be willing to rush the bastards? Yes: .. Yes: after 9/11/2001, there's no choice anymore. YOU MUST RETAKE THE CABIN OR DIE. No: \_ Think about this. Everybody on board thouht that it would be just another hostage situation-- sit tight, don't stand out, and you'll survive. \_ agreed. obviously in retrospect, the answer would be yes. \_ yes. if you knew it was life or death then of course; otherwise... \_ My poll is based on the following. Assume 50 non terrorists and 5 crew on the plane. Of the 50 assume that 20 are too old or too young or too weak to be of any use. Also assume 5 terrorists on the plane. Its 7 on 1. If they just had knifes there is no way that you can knife 7 people, shoot yes, knife no. The passengers could have taken them out. Game Over. \_ My poll is based on the following. Assume 5 terrorists, 50 passengers and and 5 crew on the plane. Of the 50 assume that 20 are too old or too young or too weak to be of any use in the situation. Its 7 on 1. If they just had knifes there is no way that you can knife 7 people who are attacking you, shoot yes, knife no. The passengers could have easily taken them out. Game Over. Yeah you might get hurt, you might even die, but its sure better than letting the bastards get away with whatever they are planning. \_ Think about this instead: the hijackers bluffed that they had a bomb. Now how many volunteers do you have? \_ from another perspective, this could give passengers the sense that they're all going to die anyway and have nothing to lose. \_ Exactly, even the women (esp. the moms) will be willing to take out the bastards. I'd say that its 10 on 1 if they say they've got a bomb. \_ Think about this instead: the hijackers bluffed that they had a bomb. Now how many volunteers do you have? \_ what if they're just planning to fly to Havana? Wouldn't you feel stupid getting killed to stop it? -tom \_ Much better getting killed than getting stuck in fidel's little hell hole with a bunch of terrorists and anti-american commie bastards. Oops I forgot you like anti-american commie Oops forgot you like anti-american commie bastards. in fidel's little hell hole. \_ assume the plane has narrow aisles. assume they have a hostage. assume half the passengers are women and only half the men are willing to put their lives on the line in the face of 5 crazy unreasonable trained fucks with knives. then figure you have no chance to organise anything or discuss with others. figure there's no particular reason to think they're suicidal. \_ Okay, in your case there are still about 13 people willing to take on the bastards. All you need to do is get heavy carry on baggage and start hitting or tripping terrorists. They will get confused and this will screw up thier plans, long enough for the pilot to get a message out, which would be enough for the SAMs to lock on, just in case we couldn't get control of the situation. Anyway, I think that I'll learn how to break necks before getting on another plane. Seems to me that this is knowledge that will be quite useful. \_ why should the pilot need to get a message out for air traffic controllers to realize that something is wrong? \_ Course deviations could be due to communications failure and or mechanical failure. ATC will need a message to let the SAMs know that its okay to lock on. \_ there are no SAMs readily deployed in U.S. soil. Nor can the military act upon a civilian aircraft without the declaration of martial law \_ Martial law must have been declared today, because the F16s that escorted planes into SFO said this "deviate from course and you because the f16s that escorted planes into sfo said this "deviate from course and you will be destroyed". And they are not going to tell you about the SAMs. Ames had them, but you didn't know that did you? \_ Wouldn't narrow aisles be to your advantage? They could not bum rush you. Then you could steven segal their ass one by one. \_ From my own experience and people I've talked to, you're not going to be able to do anything to someone with a knife unless you're willing to be seriously injured. The only options I can see are 1) grab something like luggage (mentioned above) or 2) accept that you're going to get hurt and impale yourself on the weapon to keep them from using it further. \_ I'd go with impale myself and make life miserable for the terrorist. If I'm going to die anyway I've got nothing to lose. \_ Even the odds. Bring your leatherman with you. I've flown with it several times. Nobody questions it. (Maybe they should...) \_ I think that we should all learn to kill people with our bare hands. When the pull a knife, you break thier neck. \_ They probably carved up the flight crew to intimidate the rest of the passengers. \_ That would make me more likely to rush 'em. Though, if 3 of the five just sit there with knives to the stewardess' throats then there's not much you can reasonably do. \_ Can't hijack a plane if 3 of 5 are occupied by hostages. Anyway, if they cut the throats of the stewardesses they still have the bodies in thier hands, its an advantage to you when you rush them. \_ Yes. You should use the body parts of the crew as weapons. If enough blood is spilled, they might slip and fall. Then, you can open the emergency doors and hope they slide out. \_ by-stander effect? remember psychology 1? \_ I don't mean to get off-topic, but I've been studying Japanese sword for a few years, and one of the important lessions I've learned is that if you are willing to die, you have a huge advantage. All this talk about fighting back is fine and might have actually worked, but the terrorists were willing to die, which makes them much more formidable, plus they were the ones with the weapons. - mikeym \_ Yes but, if the passengers are willing to die as well (or they know that they will die anyway) you have no advantage. Shear numbers will win. \_ Consider now that passengers are going to be less likely to sit by idly if they get hijacked. -geordan figure there's particular reason to believe they're suicidal. long enough for the pilot to get a message out. Hopefully its long enough for the SAMs to lock on. be enough for the SAMs to lock in, just in case we couldn't \_ When they start to carve up the flight crew, you jump them. That will confuse them enough to take them out. \_ That would make me more likely to rush 'em. Though, if 3 of the five just sit there with knives to the stewardess' throats then there's not much you can reasonably do.  2001/9/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:36265 Activity:nil 9/11 Sept. 11 is 911  2001/9/11-12 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:22396 Activity:high 9/11 How did terrorists get the airplanes to hit the WTC and Pentagon? Why would pilots crash a plane into those buildings considering that they probably knew that they were going to die anyways. Wouldn't it be better to just try to crash the airplane in a place where the number of casualties would be minimum? Or could it be that the terrorists had their own pilots? Also, any ideas about how terrorists could have gotten into the cockpit? Most airplanes these days should have armored cockpit doors. You can't get in there if the door is closed without blowing up the plane. Of course, the terrorists probably had all of those details planned well in advance.. \_ man, just shut up. \_ Alright, I'm no investigator but I think what may have happened was that the hijacker(s) got into the cockpit by threatening one (or more) of the flight attendants with anything from butter knife to Swiss Army knife (which almost always pass security) to knock on the cockpit door; dragged and killed the pilot & 1st officer and piloted the plane himself. This is assuming that the jihad hijacker has knowledge of flying a commercial aircraft. I guess we won't know until the FAA release the cockpit-tower conversation during the crisis. I'm just pissed off and mad at this whole thing. - jthoms \_ It's NOT THAT HARD to pilot a stupid airliner for this. You punch coordinates into the autopilot to get you close, then tweak the controls a little for maximum impact at the end. It's not like you need to go to pilot school. \_ Perhaps, but it's not that hard to find a pilot in this world, and it seems unlikely that people this organized could be so poor that they wouldn't be able to afford training of one sort or another. world, and it seems unlikely that people that organized this were so poor that wouldn't be able to afford training of one sort or another. \_ us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010911/ts/crash_tradecenter_pentagon_olson_dc_1.html Read paragraph 4. - jthoms \_ How the f**k did they get the pilot out of the cockpit? Or let them take over the cockpit? \_ "if you don't let me in the cockpit i cut out lisa's entrails!" actually i imagine they killed someone first for effect. \_ Still not a reason to let them in. Better they knife 50 people than kill 25K. \_ I would assume that the hijackers killed the pilots. No sane American pilot would have willingly steered a passenger jet into the WTC or the Pentagon. News reports also stated that each of the jets hijacked had similar controls, so most likely the hijackers were trained to pilot the aircraft. \_ Does this mean that flight sims will now be outlawed? \_ Maybe they were holding the family of the pilot hostage. Or they might have bribed him or something. I think that they probably had guns, smuggled aboard by bribing a janitor or baggage handler. Hey if it works for drugs in miami, there is no reason it won't work for guns in nyc. world, and it seems unlikely that people that organized this were so poor that wouldn't be able to afford training of one sort or another. \_ us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010911/ts/crash_tradecenter_pentagon_olson_dc_1.html Read paragraph 4. - jthoms  2001/9/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22386 Activity:high 50%like:23004 9/11 check news sources. massive terrorist attacks . nyc and washington. \_ commercial jets flown into both wtc towers and the pentagon. world trade center collapsed. \_ tv just said 2 more planes have been hijacked \_ One F-16 is already airborne waiting for order. Also another hijacked plane hit Pittsburg, and anothter at Camp David. Didn't someone say they should hijacked plane hit Camp David. Didn't someone say they should hijacked plane hit Pittsburg. Didn't someone say they should install anti-aircraft weapons after that propeller plane landed on the White House lawn a while ago? -- yuen \_ the white house does. \_ No warning from The CIA. That lame agency should be overhauled. \_ NSA handles a much larger fraction of US inteligence operations and has many times larger budget. \_ fine, THAT lame agency should be overhauled too then. \_ NSA handles a much larger fraction of US inteligence operations\ and has many times larger budget. \_ How do you know they gave no warning? \_ Well somebody f&%$ed up, now didn't they? --ulysses \_ so is there still class today? \_ No. \_ Yes. Checkout http://www.berkeley.edu \_ I can't get through to the news sites? Where can I see pictures of the "collapsed" WTC? I've only see pictures of one tower smoking. It's not possible for it to topple over just like that right? \_ http://www.sky.com/skynews/video \_ yahoo \_ thanks to Bush who pours billions of dollars into anti-missile defense and forgets about intelligence \_ Nothing has been put into anti-missile defense during the Bush admin. I understand that you're ignorant and blindly hate all Republicans but at least base it on something that looks like a fact instead of whatever you made up in your little head. one tower at least partially collapsed. \_ One F-16 is already airborne. \_ One F-16 is already airborne waiting for order. -- yuen hijacked plane hit Camp David. -- yuen \_ The CIA is so lame. It should be overhauled. \_ No warning from The CIA. That lame agency should be overhauled.
 2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19800 Activity:nil 11/16 WPB officials deny request for hand recount: In the 1984 Palm Beach election, more than 310,000 ballots were cast. The margin between two County Commission candidates was 242 votes. The loser in that race and in others on the ballot protested, among other things, the hanging chad problem. Officials denied a request for a hand recount. http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/decision/035445.htm
 2000/10/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19519 Activity:very high 10/18 Does US have jurisdiction in Yemen? Why is the FBI, a US law enforcement agency, conducting investigation on an attack occured in that country? \_ don't you know that the US has jurisdiction anywhere it wants? \_ Speak softly and carry a BIG stick (or an aircraft carrier) \_ Yeah, but I mean how do they justify it? \_ The aforementioned big stick. \_ Presumably, the excuse would be that terrorist attacks as an external threat may reflect tendencies that can easily become internal threats. I doubt the govt of Yemen gives them much leeway \_ A lot of governments "invite" the FBI in when US installations or large numbers of Americans get whacked. While this is probably mainly to avoid pissing off the US, it makes sense, as the FBI is probably the most technically advanced and experienced investigative outfit in the world, like it or not. -John \_ Scotland Yard. \_ oh yeah! when was the last time you heard they investigated something big without having to resort to the Big Brother/ national DNA database that the Brits have? Using a computer to match DNA samples is easy. Using tried and true investigation methods is not - like most things British it's past its time or is way overrated \_ Scotland Yard? The guys *still* haven't resolved the Lockerbie terrorism. Sherlock is dead.
 2000/9/29 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:19370 Activity:nil 9/29 If you see a crazy driver weaving in and out of the lane (maybe he's drunk?) can you call 911 on your cellphone? Or is it reserved for something that has already happened, like an accident? \_ if the person is a hazard to himself, to others, or to property, a call to 911 is justified.
 2000/4/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:17989 Activity:nil 4/12 If my broker charged me $50 commission for buying 1000 shares of a stock, and then I sold 500 shares later and keep the other 500 shares, can I apply all of the$50 buying commission as cost to the 500 shares I sold on my tax return? Thx. \_ probably, if you don't use it later when you sell the other 500 shares. -tom \_ Every example I've seen says no, that you calculate the gain on a per-share basis (including commission, averaged over the number of shares). -emarkp
 1998/12/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:15071 Activity:kinda low 12/4 Troll deleted again. Amy Biehl was a Stanfurd graduate who left for S. Africa on a Fulbright scholarship to help with voter registration in the nation's first all-race 1994 election marking the end of apartheid. In the wrong place at the wrong time, she was in the black township of Guguletu when an angry mob returning from a political rally stoned her car, dragged her out, beat her, and killed her. At least one of her black compatriots attempted to defend her, telling them that she was a friend. Four people were convicted and sentenced to 18 years. In July of this year, these four men were released from prison, granted amnesty by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (as required by the amnesty provision, they had fully confessed to the attack, including the individual who committed the fatal stab wound). Peter and Linda Biehl of Newport Beach, CA, released a public statement supporting the commission's decision, and have since regularly travelled to S. Africa to confirm to passersby that they have truly forgiven their daughter's killers, and towards fostering understanding between those who would be blood enemies. Whether each part of this story is right or wrong I don't say -- that you know that each part happened and think about it is what's important. When this disappears, ~jctwu/pub/biehl. \_ Well now I understand how the daughter could be so stupid, given what the parents are like. I knew about the daughter, but had no idea this was a multi-generational defect. \_ was the daughter cute? is the mom? do you have film of the mother and daughter doing the nasty? otherwise, why should we care? \_ so was the bitch cute or not? \_ The daughter is almost as stupid as the parents. Yet another total victory for the forces of Charles Darwin.
 1998/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14610 Activity:kinda low 9/15 What consumes more power, an empty refrigerator or a full refrigerator? \_ on startup from an unpowered condition, the full one does because you need to cool down a larger amount of stuff (most solids/liquids have a higher spec.heat than air) but say you have everything cooled down, a sort of steady state and you pull the power, then the full fridge will stay cooler longer due to the higher "heat mass" One could similarly say that the full fridge requires less energy per unit time to maintain a low temperature as all the frozen veggies and meat and other things with high water content maintain their temperature much better than air. Of course, if you dont plug either fridge in at all, then its a tie, though in a strict sense the full one will absorb more heat but will give up less heat given a rise or drop in temp. --jon \-well there is also the pathological case of say rotting/ fermeting food which is exothermic. --psb \_ is hell exothermic or endothermic? - tpc \_ ~dpc/forwards/hell \_ amusing. But the cited professor was most definately not the original one, as I heard the "final exam" version of this, some time in 1995 or before. (different response cited, though) \_ how often one opens and closes a refrigerator really affects how much power it uses, more than how much it contains. \_ this is true but the question was about the effect of fullness on power consumption. Reminder! Special Session of Micronet THURSDAY: Speaker: Calvin Moore, Professor and Chair, Math Dept., and Chair of the Commission on Computing. Prof. Moore will be discussing the commission's recent report on the future orginizational direction of computing on the UCB campus. The commission was mostly made up of faculty, so this is a chance for staff to give feedback. The URL for the report is: link:www.chance.berkeley.edu/evcp/new.html Time/Date: 12-2pm, THURSDAY 9/17/98 Location: 223 Moses Hall \_ Staff feedback? They needed more landfill material? The only thing more ridiculous than staff feedback is student feedback. \_ There were two students on the commission. \_ Woo woo! Power to the people! They served drinks?
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