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| 11/23 |
| 2004/11/27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35089 Activity:nil |
11/27 http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/11/27/bush-plot/index.html Cheney almost became the President. The rebels DO hate America!!! \_ A.. D'uh |
| 2004/11/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:35057 Activity:nil |
11/24 Hmm. Reports that the Russian military is being used against the
Ukrainian protesters. Intereeeesting.
http://hotline.net.ua/eng/content/view/2533/37
http://eng.maidanua.org/static/enews/1101252011.html
http://csua.org/u/a3k
\_ The Russian Army. It checks in, but it don't never leave.
\_ With Putin appointing the governors these days, how long until
Ukraine rejoins the Russian Federation? In Russia, Russia
federates you! |
| 2004/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34885 Activity:low |
11/14 Bin Laden given "religious approval" to use nukes against the US:
http://csua.org/u/9yp
What will the West do if bin Laden vaporized the Pentagon and a good
chunk of DC?:
1) Nuke all Muslim countries with ties to terrorism (Saudi Arabia,
Syria, Pakistan, etc.)
2) Tactical nuking of terrorists locations
3) Conventional war invading above countries
4) Give up
\_ this is CBS news, it is for the liberals and is as convincing
and as credible as the ultra conservative Fox news.
\_ DEAR BIN LADEN, please don't bomb the Blue States! We didn't vote
for Bush. If you must bomb, please bomb those blood sucking Red
States, like Texas or Alamaba. Thanks.
\_ funny is the democrats believe this plea will work.
\_ Dear conservative, you are a blithering idiot if you
believe this. Have a nice day. -moderate
\_ If all it takes to get "religious approval" is to have one
cleric say ok, I doubt that Bin Laden ever actually saw this
as a problem. |
| 2004/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:34881 Activity:nil |
11/14 Bin Laden given "religious approval" to use nukes against the US:
http://csua.org/u/9yp
Thanks, Saudi religious person! |
| 2004/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34850 Activity:very high 61%like:34847 |
11/11 Here's one for the Arafat trolls to chew on for a while:
http://tinyurl.com/4sljz (boston.com)
\_ Hell NO! We won't think!
\_ You are right. It was so much easier when the Palestinians
peacefully accepted their ethnic cleansing. I hate that bastard
for daring to fight back.
\_ Wow. Revisionist history makes yet another appearance on the
motd.
\_ What's revisionist about it?
\_ Um, 'ethnic cleansing'?
\_ The Palestinians just all left their own homes
and farms on their own accord? Right-o.
\_ What's to chew on? Palestinians have used terrorism. Is this news?
Shall we chew on that while ignoring Israeli occupation? How does
that make sense?
\_ wait a minute, so suicide bombing is evil, but killing civilans
blindly using American donated Apache gunship, missiles,
and tanks is perfectly ok? -peacenik
\_ I think there's a substantial difference between thugs that
TARGET civillians with carbombs and suicide bombers and
beheadings as a tactic to control the people vs trying to
kill the people that are doing this TO THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN
(mostly, anyhow). The US is doing everything it can to
minimize civillian deaths, but the remorseless insurgents
must be eliminated. I suspect that if the US just ... left
... that the people stepping forward to fill the vacuum would
create a legacy hideous beyond describing. It's rather sad
that someone getting a Berkeley education would need this
explained to them. If you think the use of these weapons is
blind, then honestly, you're saying you can't tell the
difference between random violence against innocents and
violence targeted against inherently violent people that have
no respect for life.
\_ in war, there's no such a thing as good civilians vs. evil
militants. The militants are the civilians, and at times
the civilians are the militants. The civilians give birth
for new militants, and they feed and shelter
each other, period. And by the way there's no such a
thing as Berkeley educated people having homogeneous
opinions, and in fact, not everyone on motd is educated
let along having a Berkeley degree. The idea that the
world is so black and white, is so Bush.
\_ Holy shit, you've missed the point so completely it makes
my teeth ache! The point is a matter of intent b/t the
US military vs the intent of the terrorists. Likening
them is dumb. Jesus H Christ, are you even posting in the
correct thread? I'm honestly baffled.
\_ It's not entirely binary, but there really are normal
civilians and thugs. Civilians mostly just want to be
left alone. Thugs terrorize them into giving them shelter,
etc. You = m0r0n (the dangerous moral relativist kind)
\_ Come on, don't be so harsh. Where would this world
be without Lenin's "useful idiots?" |
| 2004/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34838 Activity:high |
11/11 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/01247/557 Excellent discussion of the reality of Bin Laden and where we're headed. \_ Thank you. I go to dailykos for all my unbiased political analysis. \_ What does "dailykos" mean, any how? Daily Kooks on S***? \_ I never read the site; got the link off a KDE developer's blog. It doesn't seem biased actually... more about the futility of waging a public opinion war with guns and bombs. -op \_ dailykos doesn't seem biased? WOW! \_ The guy who started it is nicknamed "kos," pronounced with a long "o." Hence "dailykos." It is a left-wing echo chamber, similar to Freerepublic but just a hair less loony and obviously on the other side of the political spectrum. Occasionally they have some good top level links. \_ dailykos has some good stuff sometimes. most of the freerepublic people have net personas of dangerous psychopaths. \_ Do you lean conservative or liberal? \_ lib. i read and have read the free republic urls, a lot of them have "let's go shoot some libs!" tangents. dailykos does not. \_ What?!? The right is NEVER violent!! \_ Kos himself is not looney at all, in fact he is pretty much a mainstream Democrat. He is about as "looney" as say, John Kerry. Some of his posters are nuts though. \_ The posters are mostly what I was referring to. I like kos, but his site has been almost completely taken over by the fruit loops. He doesn't even write most of the entries any more. \_ Read "Guerilla Warfare" by Che Guavara. He describes fighting a superior force using exactly those tactics. |
| 2004/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34803 Activity:moderate |
11/10 This is kinda funny: Protest Warrior vs Gael Murphy
http://hq.protestwarrior.com/?page=/featured/Miami/military_shield.php
\_ Wow, imagine what good the fine folks of Protest Warrior could
accomplish if they'd just grow up. |
| 2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34657 Activity:insanely high |
11/04 So I posed this question to a liberal friend of mine. Say, you are
elected POTUS in 2004, instead of W. Say a few days after your
inauguration, NYC is nuked by a terrorist attack. As in, a crater is
left where NYC used to be. What do you do?
Feel free to modify the past however you wish to make your job
easier (by disappearing the Iraq war, for instance). I am just
curious what the ideal liberal (or conservative, or libertarian)
response would be to something like that. -- ilyas
\_ You can win wars, fight crime, insurgencies and terrorism and make
friends internationally without ruining your moral authority, your
currency, your economy, and your rule of law, and you can do it
right. -John
\_ Ok, what do you do?
\_ I hate to say this, but the answer is "it depends." I'd
certainly try to hit back in a measured, well-considered way,
like W. did in Afghanistan, before FUCKING IT ALL UP. I
would also have better prerequisites for doing all these
great things because I would not have appointed a bunch
of opportunists and nutjobs as my deputies. I'd not just
bask in the tremendous outpouring of international sympathy,
but actually actively use that to try and build support for
countermeasures, instead of cowboying it alone and pissing
off everyone in sight, and I'd focus on good, useful
protective measures instead of appointing a meathead in
charge of announcing a new color every day and blowing my
civil defense budget on distributing gas maskes in Dubuque.
Anything more detailed than that is just mental masturbation.
\_ Dude, John. 'It depends' on what? NY fucking C is gone.
This is an oddly general answer to a fairly specific
question. You honestly have no general policy in mind?
You probably shouldn't be president. (I don't mean this
in an insulting way, nor am I implying I would do better).
-- ilyas
\_ I immediately figure out how to shift the tax burden
from the idle rich to the working poor!
\_ That's easy. You find out who did it, and nuke them back. I don't
think anyone is going to argue for something less than total
commitment with an attack like that. --liberal
\_ Say Al Qaeda posted a video on Al Jazeera claiming responsibility,
and spouting. The issue is not whether you would commit, but
what exactly you would do with the committment. -- ilyas
\_ I think I already told you - nuke them back. With an
essentially stateless organization like Al Qaeda, you
can't just nuke any old major city - you'd probably have
to go after whoever you think they got their bomb from.
A nuclear weapon capable of actually turning NYC into a crater
is just not something AQ could create on their own. I'm not
sure what you mean to gain by asking this question with such
an extreme example, unless I'm being led into some sort of
false dichotomy trap. Given that this is ilyas, that might
be a good assumption to make.
\_ Ok, say Al Qaeda managed to steal a nuke from Pakistan or
bought one from Ukraine. -- ilyas
\_ Pakistan's nukes are probably far too clunky for AQ
to realistically deliver to an NYC target, so let's
say they bought it from Ukraine. Let's further assume
that they bought it from a rogue agent acting alone,
and that Ukraine itself is not responsible. Is that
okay?
\_ Sure.
\_ Okay. So you don't actually have a state that you
can nuke, at least not just yet. You've got to
hunt down and exterminate every last AQ member,
and nuke any country that gets in your way.
Again, I'm not sure why you're using such an
extreme example. The answers get much murkier
with more realistic scenarios.
\_ So basically what you are saying is, you
will not do anything different from what we
are trying to do now: hunting down Al Qaeda
(how?). This is after America's largest
city is turned to dust. I think this is
an alarming state of affairs. -- ilyas
\_ What else are you supposed to do? Start
nuking random countries? I knew you were
going to turn this into some kind of logical
trap.
\_ I don't know what we are supposed to do.
If this is a trap, it's not really my
trap. I am just pointing out that it's
not really as far fetched as people say
for the US to take a very proactive, and
possibly intrusive, stance in the world,
over and above vaguely 'trying to hunt
down Al Qaeda.' Btw, if NYC is in
fact dusted, there is no way you will
be able to politically justify
essentially doing nothing, as you are
proposing. -- ilyas
\_ I'm not sure what it is that you're
trying to discover with this line
of questioning. Personally, I'd have
no problem invading a country that's
harboring terrorists who nuked NYC.
But the US has limited resources, and
it's stupid to overextend into
countries that are not directly
responsible or accountable (ie Iraq).
I don't think this is a Liberal or
Conservative issue, it's a common
sense perspective. Violence should
be cold and reasonably applied, not
randomly meted out according to the
whimsy of someone's murky, conflicted
agenda (ideally, anyhow). -mice
\_ Who will you invade? The nuke was
bought from a ukranian rogue!
\_ I'm assuming that the point of
of the exercise is to probe the
'liberal' stance of motd'ers,
and show their hypocrisy or
their naivete, using Iraq as
the point of contention. This
is an interesting question,
though I don't like ilyas'
socratic RP-scenario approach
to ascertaining this. -mice
\_ I think you are attributing
more malice to my line of
questioning than there is.
I don't really know what
we should do. I think it's
more curiosity than anything
else. If I am pointing out
anything 'malicious' it's that
the typical liberal response
might not necessarily be
politically tenable if
something truly bad
happens. -- ilyas
\_ Eh, it's not malice; the
presupposition that
there's a 'typical
liberal response' seems to
give some measure of
validation to my
opinion that there's a
measure of socraticalness
in the conversation. I
apologize if I it seemed
I was accusing you of
malicious intent; you
just very seldom ask
unloaded questions.
So what, in your view, IS
the 'typical liberal
response'? -mice
\_ Well, I gathered it's
'don't do anything
other than gather intel
and try to catch
terrorists, just as
we are trying to now.'
-- ilyas
\_ Honestly ilyas, if NYC
really gets nuked, all
bets are off and
traditional politics
probably goes out
the window as the
apocalypse begins.
\_ Get into that underground nuke-proof bunker with Rice and Elaine.
Lock everyone else out. What follows are left for your imagination.
-- troll
\_ Blame Bush.
\_ Maybe it would be better if you asked a hypothetical question
that had a non-zero chance of obtaining.
\_ You think the probability of a nuclear terrorist attack on
NYC is 0? -- ilyas
\_ I don't think this is a liberal/conservative issue. Your question
is too vague to give any particular answer.
\_ You can attack this question on a lot of grounds, but not on
vagueness. I gave a particular situation. NYC is a crater.
You are the president. What is your policy? -- ilyas
\_ Just for fun, here was the ilyas policy from an older motd
post: "nuke the arab world". And in ilyas fantasy land,
while the US is launching its nukes to wipe out all those
muslim countries, no other country does anything. Iran
doesn't nuke Isreal, India and Pakistan don't nuke each other,
North Korea doesn't nuke either Japan or China, etc. The
rest of the world happily sits on their hands and lets the
US do all the nuking. -meyers
\_ Meyers, I believe I made the _prediction_ that the US
will mobilize and do a long term invasion of the Middle
East as a response to a nuking of NYC.
(http://csua.com/?entry=32820
This prediction was NOT my policy suggestion.
Furthermore, I never either predicted a nuking, nor
advocated a nuking myself, unless something like a GTNW
was already in progress.
You are pulling this out of your ass.
(Certainly if US will have nukes going off everywhere,
i.e. a 'free-for-all', then US will retaliate, but that's
a rational response.) -- ilyas
\_ Okay smart guy, what is *your* response?
\_ Did you read this thread at all?
\_ Yes, I read the entire thread. Ilyas has no answers,
only criticisms.
\_ I go on TV and make a rousing, determined, patriotic speech
mobilizing the entire country to blindly support my
domestic political agenda. I blame Bush for fucking up
on the Bin Laden situation and overextending our troops,
and having bad priorities w.r.t. Iraq, Iran, North Korea,
Pakistan etc. We have to consider how a terrorist could
actually acquire and detonate a city-destroying nuke in
NYC, seems highly unlikely to me. I think it would be
more likely that if they acquire one it would be in the
Eurasian continent and they would perhaps target Israel.
I would not nuke another country since it seems unlikely
that a state will have any direct responsibility, and
it would piss off the world with nuclear contamination
and deaths of poor dumb peons somewhere in a symbolic
act of rage. I suppose nuking Mecca and engaging Islam
in a full-on apocalyptic shitfest would be what some
rightists would call for. I would not do that. I would
concentrate on Pakistan and Iran with intensity. I
don't know much about Musharraf, but I would claim that
an international security force is needed in Pakistan
since it seems Al Qaeda is operating out of there.
I would lobby other nations hard for military support
in Iraq and other places, and use the threat of
economic consequences if they fail to help... this must
be done right after the attack while the moral mandate
is on our side (but we wouldn't be publically hostile
until after an ally publically shit in our face).
until after an ally publically shit in our face). -moderate
\_ You are not ilyas.
\_ too much posting, too lazy to arrange properly.
\_ If the US is nuked by AQ, then I think the solution would be
marshall law in the US. We probably would round up every
\_ Wataaaaa!
vaguely Muslim or Middle-Eastern person and close the borders.
Meanwhile, I would not be surprised if many allies did the same
thing. Israel and the US would go on the offensive against
the Muslim states (Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc.) but I do think
most of the changes would be here at home. |
| 2004/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34649 Activity:high |
11/3 So, which Supreme court decisions do you think will be overturned after
Roe? I'm betting on Griswold, and perhaps maybe the big enchilada,
Marbury vs. Madison:
http://www.nv.cc.va.us/home/nvsageh/Hist121/Part3/Marbury.htm
\_ not really funny
\_ seriously, how many of you neocons on soda actually want Roe v Wade
overturned? -nivra
\_ none but the fact of the matter is that Bush is in the office
and you bet your ass something's gonna give
\_ RVW was the worst USSC decision ever. Further opened
the door to judicial activism. It should be reversed merely on
Constitutional merit, and abortion rights returned to states,
where they preexisted.
\_ BvBoE was the worst USSC decision ever. Further opened the
door to judicial activism. It should be reversed merely on
Constitutional merit, and racial segregation rights returned
to states, where they preexisted. |
| 2004/11/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34610 Activity:kinda low |
11/3 Dear Mr. Osama Bin Laden, please continue your cause. Please
don't target your friends in big cities like New York, Los
Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc. Do please target ultra right
Christian gun-owning rednecks in the red states like Ohio
and Florida. Thank you.
\_ And if you target Indiana, pretty-please spare Bloomington.
The Demos won all but one of the county and city races last night.
\_ I guess the end of the election hasn't made the trolls go away for
even a second.
\_ Hello? This is the motd?
\_ How is this a troll? In 10+ years, when the orphaned Iraqi's
grow up, what do you think the first thing on their mind is?
Do you really think terriorism can be solved by killing more
innocent people? Kill first, ask questions later? If BushCo
wants to fuck the rest of the world as they pleases, then
they have every right to strike us back however they can.
And idiots who vote for Bush and think Bush will make them
safer just don't see it.
\_ That's why we have to round up and kill all of the Iraqi
orphans! Duh! You liberals are too soft! |
| 2004/11/3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:34600 Activity:nil |
11/3 Any bets on the next senate minority leader? If they pick that
son of a bitch Liebermann, I'm leaving the party for good.
\_ Damn jew!
\_ Reid, don't you know?
\_ What's wrong with Liebermann?
\_ He was one of the authors of the homeland security bill that
created the DHS, is a big supporter of the patriot act,
was part of the crusade to censor music and video games,
is owned outright be the insurance industry, and is a total
welfare whore for the ct. defense contractors. In the primaries
the candidates were asked about how to deal with America's
healthcare crisis. Everyone had some answer or another
except him. His response was basically "I don't think the
american people want to hear about that." Hell, even the
republicans admit our healthcare system is fucked, they just
disagree on how to fix it. When someone says it's just not
a problem, that's far far worse. As a ct. resident, I
particularly resent him because I've voted for him on a
lesser-of-evils basis, but he continually represents the
corporate interests of CT, rather than the people.
\_ So, to sum up, he's the biggest liberal in the Senate.
\_ huh?
\_ Engage humor processor, read again.
\_ Sorry. that part of my brain fused about
11 pm last night. I've got dual cooling
fans on the rage processor, and had to shut
down other auxiliary fucntions. |
| 2004/11/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34578 Activity:high 57%like:33227 |
11/2 There was no terrorist attack! |
| 2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34529 Activity:high |
11/2 Osama will bankrupt us, and the current administration will help:
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041102-073358-8320r.htm
\_ Cool, OBL is taking a page from the Reagan vs. Soviet play book.
Go Osama! Go Kerry!
\_ As if you current economics can even be affected like they
were to such a backwards economy like the Soviet Union.
\_ Why are you posting shit from that Moonie paper? Stop posting
garbage links.
\_ I have wondered at times if Bush is in fact controlled by an
enemy of America, out to ruin us, such as the Chinese. |
| 2004/11/2 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34524 Activity:very high |
11/1 http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html You know I'm trying really hard to find some idiotic thing OBL said but actually he is not that dumb. Anyone feel this way? \_ Of course you can't find anything you disagree with. His latest video is from the DNC and Michael Moore talking points. When you find yourself in agreement with a psychotic like OBL you seriously need to take a step back and evaluate your own philosophies. \_ the caliphate is dead dead dead \_ What he said (this time) in and of itself is not idiotic. What he said (this time) in the context of being a sanctimonious, ruthlessly murdering prick representing an oppressive, twisted fundamentally defective ideology plumbs new, untold depths of politically opportunistic cretinism. Don't go there. -John \_ Anytime he mentions the 19 blessed martyrs or the pure soul of Mohammed Atta, he shows stupidity and evil. Don't forget about the planes and the ~ 3,000 innocents, especially the ones jumping from the tops of the buildings. \-i was once told this story: my uncle's car got a flat just outside the fence of a mental institutuion in michigan. as he was changing the tire, an inmate stood on the other side of the fence peering at him. at some point a car drove by an hit them hubcap on which the lugnuts were resting, scattering them into the vegetation making them impossible to find. my uncle just stood there in frustration, not knowing what to do, since he didnt have any spares. finally after a while, the inmate fellow spoke up and said, "you can take one lug off of the 3 other tires" ... my uncle was delighted at the solution and bit surprised at the source ... and delicatly raised the issue about his incarceration in the asylum, to which the fellow said in a deadpan, "i'm crazy, not stupid." \_ I mean stupid in the ultimate sense of stupidity of massive killing of innocents. I am not talking about technical, managerial, or inspirational skills. Osama == stupid. \- i think the "massive killing of innocents" is better characterized as "wrong" than "stupid". \_ Evil is fundamentally stupid. -- ilyas \_ "And now, Lone Star, you see why evil will always triumph over good: because good is dumb." Evil is not stupid, it is, well, evil. But why all the argumentation about semantics? The overall "wrong- ness" of certain individual goes beyond good or evil, into the area of "mad dog who should be put down", not out of any feelings of rancor, but on a purely rational basis (i.e. if he's allowed to live, he'll have another x,000 innocents killed.) But then again, I'm an elitist nazi, for what it's worth. -John \_ where's the hail german john guy? I see an opportunity here... \_ Yeah; I'm kind of worried, actually. I hope he's OK. This was a freebie... -John \_ hm still no sign of the hail john dude. John, what the hell did you do? Make death threats? \_ eh, you're probably right, but I was coming at it kind of from ilyas' angle. \_ which proves you're wrong |
| 2004/11/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34515 Activity:nil |
11/1 http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/33124.htm CA to be safe? \_ Based on a rather biased translation of UBL's speech. Cf. houris as grapes instead of maidens, and maiden instead of virgin in certain religious works. |
| 2004/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34455 Activity:moderate |
10/30 You know, after watching the Bin Laden video, I couldn't help it
thinking... wow, he's a pretty calm, intelligent guy with a pretty
clear message, unlike our Chimp in Chief who loses temper and can't
even speak English and construct clear ideas.
\_ You're nuts or a troll. OBL is a lunatic.
\_ I don't think he's a lunatic in the sense of being a frothing
at the mouth, raving mad kind of lunatic. I think he probably
does have an understandable beef with the US, and he's not
trying to be a terrorist just for the hell of it. Of course,
his decision to take it as far as actively plotting to and
then actually killing people is presumably what you think
makes him a lunatic, but I think it's a rational and considered
move, albeit one I disagree with.
\_ I don't think it's rational in that it will ultimately prove
counterproductive to his cause. Attacking the US historically
had not proven itself to be a smart thing to do. -- ilyas
\_ well the US gov historically does not negociate, period,
leaving the poor ppl with no choice but to resort to
terrorism.
\_ US should negotiate with whom? For what? What do you
mean 'no choice?' Are you trolling? -- ilyas
\_ Well he wants Islamic theocracy and thinks the USA stands in
the way of that (which it does). His methods are rational in
that desiring to achieve his goals by force they're probably
the only possibility. But his goals are insane and evil. |
| 2004/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34452 Activity:kinda low |
10/29 Bizarre. The media is in spin-overdrive, declaring the OBL tape a
"big win for Bush."
I don't get it. Please, someone explain this to me.
\_ Is it TV you're watching? Which stations?
\_ "The airing of a tape of Osama bin Laden capped a week of
bad news for President Bush that threatened to derail his
candidacy in the final days of the presidential election" --CBS
\_ CNN is saying pretty much exactly the opposite, that the tape
"completely wipes away the events of the last week."
\_ Perhaps meaning that it supercedes it... it's a statement
that says nothing about being good or bad for Bush.
\_ NBC Nightly News: ""The Bin Laden tape has erased any
momentum that John Kerry may have had during the past
week". Go TV news! How can he even pretend to know
that?
\_ I think it's reasonable to expect that the release
of the tape will change the dialog over the next
couple of days; that's not the same as "erasing any
momentum," since it could wind up being positive for
Kerry. -tom |
| 2004/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:34447 Activity:moderate |
10/29 You know I actually agree with what Osama said. Our security is
in our own hands, and while it may make some difference
between who we pick as our leaders, our actions aboard is the
direct consequence of why we suffered 911. And unless we
fundamentally change the way we deal with the rest of the
world, we will never be safe. Competition and survival of the
fittest is good and all that, but we shouldn't take it to the
extreme that the other side simply can't survive. If we want
to be the world police, then we need to do so using a more
\_ America, fuck yeah!
balanced approach.
\_ you may want to rethink your use of the word "consequence"
\_ Why do you hate America?
\_ I agree too. America's streets will run red with the blood of
infidels, God willing. America has held the world under its
merciless boot-heel for so long, it's too late for redemption.
\_ The problem is that there's always someone feeling oppressed in
the world, it doesn't matter how nice you are. There are also
a lot of people who are just jealous and always want to "take
down the big guy a peg or two."
\_ Nobody hates Sweden, or the Swiss or the Dutch. It is possible
to have material wealth without stomping on others.
\_ Dude, people hate the swiss, even I know that. And, uh,
the germans. -- ilyas
\_ Why do you hate CERN?
\_ These are very small countries. It is easy to maintain a
high standard of living with such a small populace
without pissing off too many people. |
| 11/23 |
| 2004/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34445 Activity:moderate |
10/29 Bin Laden speaks out right before the election. Is that going
to help or hurt our great President of the United States?
This can't help, but I'm not an pigfucking inbred moronic loser:
"It appeared to him (Bush) that a little girl's talk about her goat
and its butting was more important than the planes and their butting
of the skyscrapers. That gave us three times the required time to
carry out the operations, thank God," he said.
\_ Hurts Dubya. He didn't nail Osama and Osama is laughing at him.
\_ you guys realize that the Democrats are sheltering Bin Laden
for the purpose of winning the election right? -conservative
\_ How's that koolaid tonight?
\_ Are you serious? Who is the "Commander in Chief" right now?
\_ Bin Laden is taunting Bush, but also trying to persuade
Americans to vote for Kerry. So the question is: Why would
bin Laden want Kerry as President?
\_ http://andrewsullivan.com
But why release a tape just before the elections? The obvious
impact will be to help Bush. Any reminder of the 9/11 attacks
will provoke a national rallying to the commander-in-chief. The
deep emotional bond so many of us formed with the president back
then is Bush's strongest weapon in this election, and OBL has
just revived it. The real October Surprise turned out not to be
OBL's capture (sorry, Teresa!) but OBL's resilience. I have a
feeling that this will tip the election decisively toward the
incumbent. A few hours ago, I thought Kerry was headed for
victory. Now I think the opposite. I also have a sinking feeling
that that was entirely bin Laden's objective.
\_ I don't think criticism of Bush is meant to help Bush
win. How the heck do you draw that conclusion?
\_ Let's see... "Any reminder of the 9/11 attacks
will provoke a national rallying to the commander-in-chief.
The deep emotional bond so many of us formed with the
president back then is Bush's strongest weapon in this
election, and OBL has just revived it." Just a random
guess of Andrew Sullivan's thinking, of course.
\_ There is a good rebuttal to this ridiculous line of
thinking right on his own web site.
\_ It's total bs-- up til now Bush could probably claim that
Osama was buried in a cave somehow. It's not good for
Kerry, but it's definitely bad for Bush.
\_ He might be right, but Osama is pretty nuts, and his
understanding of American phychology is sketchy at best.
Who can tell what he's thinking?
\_ Derka Derka Derka?
\_ So much for the tin-foil-hat brigade saying we had him in custody
and Bush was saving him for the Oct. surprise.
\_ "Bin Laden" is a computer program in a pakistani movie
studio. The kurds will release Bin Laden (in a daring US
Army Raid) on monday.
\_ There's still 3 days. |
| 2004/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34442 Activity:nil |
10/29 Osama bin Laden: "It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief
of the country [Bush] would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to
face those horrors alone ... because he thought listening to a child
discussing her goats was more important. ... Your security is not in
the hands of Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. ... To the U.S. people, my
talk is to you about the best way to avoid another disaster. ... I
tell you: security is an important element of human life and free
people do not give up their security. ... If Bush says we hate
freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. It
is known that those who hate freedom do not have dignified souls, like
those of the 19 blessed ones ... We fought you because we are free ...
and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our
security we undermine yours."
\_ it would be funny if osama came out with a tape blaming
the wtc crashes on jews pilotting the planes filled with
defenseless arabs.
\_ Kerry using bin Laden to gain votes?
\_ You partisan spinning must be topping 10k rpms. Take a step back
and try to get some perspective here.
\_ Uhhh....huh?
\_ The very first sentence "It never occurred ...... was more
important" sounds like Kerry.
\_ This is a translation. Comparing speaking style in
different languages is not easy.
\_ Bush using fear to gain votes?
\_ Is there a full or even partial transcript URL? I'd like to read
the whole thing or at least as much as is out there. Or was this
the whole thing? Thanks.
\_ Isn't it great that Osama Bin Laden is irrefutably accepting
responsibility for the attacks now that Muslims don't have to
cling to that Jews-did-it conspiracy story anymore, since the
whole world hates our guts anyways?
\_ It was a Jewish actor masquerading as Osama. It's a devious
plot to pin blame on Islam. |
| 2004/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34435 Activity:nil |
10/29 Go Drudge! Go Drudge #1 Fan!
http://csua.org/u/9pw |
| 2004/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34420 Activity:moderate |
10/28 Any bets on whether the new "Al Qaeda" tape will prove to be real?
\_ I don't think al-queda is as centralized as the administration
says it is. they didn't start calling themselves
"al-queda" until the gwbush administration started blamin
everything on them.
\_ It IS real. Authenticated by the CIA. Delivered in Pakistan.
Professionally done. Speaker follows the news and is more
articulate than Dubya.
\_ Um...
"But agency officials said they have not been able to
authenticate the tape."
http://csua.org/u/9pd (yahoo news)
Also, who is leaking this shit to Drudge?
\_ "The CIA and FBI have authenticated a new al Qaeda videotape"
http://www.drudgereport.com/abct2.htm
Well, that's where I got "authenticated" from, I guess.
\_ Sure, a Drudge link. Heh.
\_ Anyway, I guess the CIA hasn't authenticated it, but
from all evidence so far it's real:
http://ww.csmonitor.com/2004/1029/p06s01-wosc.html
Of course, IMO, the guy is talking completely out of
his ass.
\_ In case you haven't noticed, pretty much all
terrorists are totally nuts. Who but a nut job
could you get to drive a car full of explosives
someplace and BLOW HIMSELF UP?
\_ "talking out of his ass" = making claims that
he can't back up with actions
\_ Oh, sorry. Does that make me a FOB?
\_ 5 dollah sucky sucky!
\_ that's not really a global definition. To
"talk out of one's ass" generally means
talking bullshit, usually in the sense of
making stuff up as needed. Similarly,
"he pulled that out of his ass" means he
just made something up and passed it off as
real. |
| 2004/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34410 Activity:low |
10/28 http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=206661 "No, my fellow countrymen you are guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. You are as guilty as Bush and Cheney. You're as guilty as Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and Powell ... After decades of American tyranny and oppression, now it's your turn to die. Allah willing, the streets of America will run red with blood matching drop for drop the blood of America's victims. ... People of America, I remind you of the weighty words of our leaders, Osama bin Laden and Dr. Ayman al-Zawahri, that what took place on Sept. 11 was but the opening salvo of the global war on America ... And that Allah willing, the magnitude and ferocity of what is coming your way will make you forget all about Sept. 11." \_ "And, again, I don't know where he [bin laden] is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." -GW \_ That's nice you quote only this part. Shows how honest you are. \_ "Azzam, who formerly worked for Haliburton, KBR, and Senior Presidential Advisor Karl Rove, says that this imminent attack should serve to underscore Vice President Dick Cheney's fearmongering." |
| 2004/10/26-27 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34366 Activity:high |
10/26 Awesome. Children's puppet show encourages massacre.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41091
\_ I love You, You love me
We'll murder the Zionist Enemy...
\_ that's hilarious, sad it's true.. sheesh..
\_ If your livelihood was an olive grove, maybe you'd want to shoot
the people ripping it out.
\_ Oh please. Did you catch the palestinians were using the
trees to hide rocket launchers?
\_ I knew that, but the people firing rockets from olive
groves are not the same people who live/work there. The
Israeli Army's distinct lack of sympathy for innocent
farmers is not exactly winning them friends.
\_ And how would you suggest an army deal with this
situation? Ask them to stop?
\_ Look, if they feel the need to destroy an olive grove
for security reasons, that's OK, but you need to pay
them a fair-market price if you're going to take away
their means of earning a living. From what I've
heard they just send in the buldozers and say
'tough shit'.
\_ Did you know that if the police destroy your
property while pursuing a suspect, etc. they are
not liable for damages? Sounds like you don't
know much about established law.
\_ From what you've heard? Still reading dailykos?
Or is that the PLO website?
\_ Wow, the governments on your planet must be
really fucking cool. Could you kindly cite an
actual example of any existing government
compensating individuals (in this case
non-citizens!) for property destroyed/seized
for security reasons within a reasonable
timeframe following the destruction/seizure?
\_ The US Army routinely reimburses non-citizens
for property damage incurred during training.
I know this for a fact, since I saw it happen
in Panama. -Vet
\_ I am unaware of any police department deciding
they are in the business of punishing people,
that is a matter for our correctional system.
\_ If the army flattened your house while persuing
terrorists in this country, you would probably
be reimbursed but it isn't guaranteed. If your
property was being used to hide weapons and you
didn't report it and the military destroyed your
house, tough shit.
\_ Actually, you probably wouldn't be reimbursed,
even in the case where you were just an
innocent bystander.
\_ There's no need to speak hypothetically
here. One word: Waco.
\_ But they were religious nutters so they
don't have any rights. Just because
Reno could have had Koresh picked up
in town when he made shopping trips,
usually alone, twice a week.
\_ yea, easy for you to say. report it, and
the next day, you will be killed by those
bastards for "collaborating with the
enemy". |
| 2004/10/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:34307 Activity:very high |
10/23 http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/21/1440244 Interview with Robert Scheer, LA Times reporter, on a CIA report that was completed in May/June this year. "... what I reported was people who have knowledge of this saying they're stalling the report until after the election, so, it won't adversely affect Bush's chances ... And Porter Goss ... is the one who is currently stalling it. So, here is a study on what happened at 9/11 demanded in December of 2002 -- 2001 by Congress -- 2001 by Congress. An eleven-man committee at the C.I.A worked on that question for almost two years; and it hasn't been turned over. ... My understanding is that this report is explosive because it says the Bush administration was asleep at the wheel before 9/11 and it fixes responsibility on individuals quite high up, and that it says the administration covered up after 9/11 by not holding these people accountable. So there it is." \_ Yeah, yeah, yeah... and cruise missile diplomacy used by Clinton really worked. \_ It went something like: "Hey Dubya, I pissed off Osama by blowing up his base and almost getting him - you better watch out, he wants revenge. Dubya: Wut??!" \_ Translation, "That chick with the cum stained blue dress was out there trying to ruin my legacy, so I wagged the dog, destroyed an aspirin factory, killed a few camels, and whipped up a hornets nest. I never did jack about bin laden, never made a major effort to do anything about terrorism, never really did anything but try to create my legacy by forcing Israel into dealing with terrorists and we know how that worked out. The first WTC bombing, the Cole, the 2 African embassies, and the rest... it's a criminal issue for the FBI to arrest and prosecute individuals." \_ This is all true, which is why Clinton did NOT tell Bush "Terrorism will be your most important issue and watch Bin Laden" during the transition, which Bush promptly ignored since his neocons were busy planning an Iraq invasion. Isn't it funny how the same people who criticize Clinton for launching missiles at enemy terrorists who attacked our embassies and ships as "Wag the Dog" praise Bush for invading a country that did not attack us, totally wrecking our standing and reputation all over the world? \_ This post is odd. You're confused because people who criticize Clinton for not doing enough praise Bush for doing a lot? That's not confusing to me. \_ No, people criticize Clinton for doing something (Wag the Dog) and praise Bush for royally fucking everything up. \_ An apirin factory and a dead camel is doing something but wiping out thousands of terrorists is royally fucking everything up. I'm guessing you describe their actions and results in the opposite terms I do because you pray east a few times a day. I can't think of another reason why thousands of dead terrorists is bad and doing nothing is good. \_ Clinton could have wiped out Bin Laden & the entire royal family of UAE in one shot ... He chose not to create a diplomatic disaster, plus his hands were tied. Bush, thanks to 9/11, has way more options open to him than Clinton, but he ends up invading a country which has little to do with 9/11, islamic fundamentalism, funding/harboring Al Queda, etc. That's what royally fucking up means. Plus, anti-Americanism is at an alltime high in Islamic countries, you can be sure that whatever number of terrorists Bush has killed, 3X replacements have been recruited since Bush is Bin Laden's poster boy for new terrorists. It probably doesn't bother you that thousands of innocent lives have been lost in the Iraq war either, since all brown people are terrorists anyhow. \_ Clinton: Tried to get bin Laden after he killed hundreds in two embassies, almost got him, even with Monica on his cock. \_That's nice you forgot to write Sudan offered him and Clinton turned it down. \_ Wrong. Sudan was begging the Clinton admin to take him and did so at least three times that we know of publicly but Clinton didn't because they decided they didn't have the legal authority to do so. They should have asked Al Gore who would have told them there is no over riding legal authority on such matters. \_ How is that essentially wrong? Clinton didnt see what we did to Noreiga? U.S. can damn well arrest anyone we please! \_ They hate us because of our freedom! \_ This is just a bald faced lie. http://prisonplanet.com/sudan_offered_to_arrest_bin_laden.html Stop getting your "information" from Right Wing propaganda sites. Dubya: Ignored fact that bin Laden wanted revenge after we blew up his base and almost killed him. Let bin Laden get away, attacked Iraq instead. \_ That's nice you forgot to include the part about why the base was blown up. \_ The base was blown up because bin Laden was responsible for attacking two U.S. embassies, killing hundreds, and because Bill had information that bin Laden was at one of the target sites at that very moment \_ Almost killed him? Bullshit. Let him get away? Is this the Tora Bora lie? \_ We were moving troops out of Afghanistan and into Iraq. Tommy Franks expressed displeasure with this, but made do with what he had, and bin Laden got away. "Almost killed him": http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/rca/rca_200111_88_2_eng.txt (this was pretty well known back then, but I guess you've been drinking the Konservative Kool-Aid a bit too much) |
| 2004/10/19 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34225 Activity:high |
10/19 So in my completely uninformed opinion, October 31 is the best time
for a terrorist attack, successful or not. Soft targets. Have phun.
\_ bullshit. I predict that, unless Bush's poll numbers drastically
improve, we'll see a vague threat from tom "political whore"
ridge for halloween, though. every dingbat soccer mom will make
their kid stay home and think about al queda instead of tricker
treating, and nothing will happen.
\_ I hope you're right. Basically, if there is no attack, we win
(for that round at least). I do agree that a security
announcement is virtually assured - since if the President's
people say nothing and something blows up, they'll look like
idiots again. Better to say something and not have anything
happen and imply that's because you were taking care of things.
-op
\_ My current favorite scenario is the "Bush parachutes into
Baghdad on eve of election to get photo-op with troops" angle.
\_ If you go trick-or-treating, the terrorists will have won.
\_ This is a war of cultures. The pagan terrorists and their
activist trick-or-treaters are trying to undermine strong
Christian American values.
\_ Trick or treating died years ago. We buy 2 bags of candy each
year and leave the lights on, the traditional invitation, and
I end up eating 1.5 bags of candy every year. The same is true
at all my friend's houses both here and in other states.
\_ You must live in a crappy area where people don't know their
neighbors. I bet I'll run out of the 3 large bags of candy
I bought, just like last year and the year before that.
\_ Yes I do and so do all my friends. Nonsense. Your 3 large
bags is nothing compared to the 15+ bags we shelled out
every year when I was a kid and then we gave out pennies
and other small change until we had nothing left and they
still kept coming. 3 bags? Whatever..... Trick or
treating is dead because all the moms are afraid their
kids will eat razors, drugs, and poison. This goes back
about 20 years. 3 bags? I'm still shaking my head on that
one.....
\_ I don't think they worry about the candy (razors etc.).
They worry about bad people out there at night. When I
was a kid we just went around on our own. Now I always
see some worried parent hovering just behind the kids.
Or they go to some well-lighted mall or something.
Pussies, the lot of 'em!
\_ It can really vary a lot. My mom used to get like 2-3
small groups of kids, but last year it seems a bunch of
kids moved into the neighborhood and she went through 2 big
bags.
\_ Come Oct 31, there will not be any terrorist attack. Terrorists
know that if the conservatives win, the US will do whatever it
takes to fit their conservative foreign policy agendas. Terrorists
are not dumb, they know this, and they will not attack.
Instead, there will be a lot of vague warnings from the
Homeland Security Dept. on possible attacks, and a lot of
heightened alerts from the Sinclair/Fox network scaring people
into thinking that there will be a major attack. Fear-->
wanting a big safe powerful government. It worked before,
it will work again. -election oracle
\_ What about a Republican sponsored "terrorist" attack? They
have done some pretty crappy stuff (secret Paris negotiation
with the Vietnamese, Iran-Contra) in the past to win elections,
why not this year, when the stakes are even higher?
\_ Yes! Yes! And the JEWS will help them! And who says the
terrorists even exist? Only FOX News! Dubya and his JEW
cronies blew up everything on 9/11 and would've got more
if it wasn't for the brave few people on the 4th plane.
How do we know they were Saudis? How do we know bin Laden
even exists or if he does (unlikely) that he isn't a Dubya
agent? We've all known for years that Dubya and his JEW
allies in Israel are just trying to establish the Zionist
Occupation Government! Iraq was just the a practice session
for when they take over German, France, Russia, Spain, North
Korea, Syria, and all other good and free and liberal minded
places! We must strike first! We must protect liberty! Let
everyone know Dubya is in cahoots with the JEWS!
\_ Wow, you're really a stupid Jew. |
| 2004/10/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34138 Activity:high |
10/14 Green Zone Cafe blows up.
Terrorists win! (shorter timer this time)
\_ Terrorist win, you die.
\_ One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
\_ Yermom, though, will always be a slut. |
| 2004/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34094 Activity:very high |
10/13 Does the president get "patted down" or have to walk through a
metal detector anywhere he goes here in America?
\_ That's no sock in the President's flight suit!
\_ "What do you think?" because that's a really dumb question. What,
he's going to carry a bomb on an airplane and blow himself up? They
need to protect Dick Cheney from him? Can you think of a single
scenario in which he would need to be patted down?
\_ Actually, Bush needs to be protected from Cheney, as do we all:
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4041
\_ This argument is just plain stupid. By this reasoning, then
we shouldn't pat anyone down at the airport.
\_ Are you really this fuck-stupid?
\_ He's not, but you are apparently.
\_ Please. He's extrapolating a conclusion based on the
absurdly false premise that the office of the president
is somehow logically equivalent to everyone else. This
is categorically untrue, and your inability to see this
only confirms my first opinion: that you're fuck-stupid.
\_ actually you are.
\_ no... YOU are
\_ wdyha?
\_ wdYha???
\_ ED!
\_ BUD DAY!
\_ You're dumb.
\_ Am I? OK, give me one good reason to pat down the president.
\_ If it's because you/others believe he's more moral than us
or because he more than anyone should know not to break a
law, that's nonsense because neither he (nor any other
person) is. if it's because he's constantly surrounded by
secret service officers, then fine, that makes more sense.
\_ Dude. Seriously. 1) he's a republican. 2) he's texan.
\_ He loses the election and wants to take congress with him,
are you really this stupid?
\_ Now _that's_ a Ludlum premise if I've ever heard one:
"Silence gripped the Senate as the ousted President
lifted the ticking device above his head. 'My God!'
someone suddenly cried, 'the President has a bomb!'"
\_ Why doesn't everyone stop name-calling and just attach explanations
with their responses. Are we in 3rd-grade still?
\_ dood UR teh gay
\_ Excellent question to ask. If he gets
special treatments, then maybe a terrorist could hire a Bush
double, have him board airforce one, then have him hijack
the plane to crash into the Bush mansion.
\_ How do we know he hasn't already been replaced by a double?
\_ Because a double would have a noticeable bulge on his
back where the battery pack goes. |
| 2004/10/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:34086 Activity:high |
10/13 GITMO: Terrorist U?
link:csua.org/u/9g4 (SJ Mercury News)
\_ "It was not clear why U.S. authorities released Mehsud.
After he returned to his tribal homeland in South Waziristan,
he became a rebel leader and has opposed Pakistani forces that
are hunting Al-Qaida fighters in the semiautonomous area."
Now why is this a surprise? If I've been detained by some
country for 2 years, you'll bet your ass when I am freed, I will
do all I can do get even.
\_ Thank you for spelling it out. -op |
| 2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Recreation/Food] UID:34051 Activity:high |
10/12 What is the wisdom of blowing up an unoccupied restaurant that is
used as a terrorist meeting place? Why not raid the restaurant on
the ground while it is actually being used? I doubt the terrorists
are saying: "Damn! They blew up the restaurant. Now we're
screwed." They'll just meet somewhere else. This is stupid.
\_ 1. Hope they get people when they are in the place.
2. Hope other shop owners will care more and not let them meet
at their places.
3. Terrah! 9/11!
\_ Wouldn't it make more sense to stake it out and actually
catch the guys?
\_ Of course not. Blowing up the place intimidates shopkeepers
and has almost no risk of casualties.
\_ What about, I dunno, actually catching/killing some
terrorists? |
| 2004/10/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34040 Activity:moderate |
10/11 I-Team investigation uncovers voter registration fraud
http://csua.org/u/9f9
Hundreds of completed voter registration cards found
stashed in car
http://www.kstptv5.com/article/stories/s3189.html
Election boards overwhelmed
http://cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1096191056165960.xml
\_ MOTD readers underwhelmed |
| 2004/10/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33978 Activity:high |
10/7 If Bin Laden were found in the next week or so, do you think the
election would favor one party or another?
\_ Yes. Dubya. Duh.
\_ W. might just be delaying a Bin Laden capture in time for the
elections. At the very least, an early capture of B.L. might
have kept W. from invading Iraq.
\_ I worried for a while that this was a possibility... but
if they were going to pull this rabbit out of the hat,
don't you think they would have dont it already? Seems too
late at this point to not appear calculated
\_ If Pakistan can pick him up, basically anytime, then
maybe they can "bargain/extort" more for producing
B.L. for W. than whatever was agreed to before.
\_ I think you need more tin foil in your hat.
\_ Think reagan/carter/hostages...
\_ Think "I'm an idiot" you moron. |
| 2004/10/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:33972 Activity:high |
10/7 I notice on wall people are discussing the idea that Guantanamo
interrogations "have not prevented a single terrorist attack".
Here's the source article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1318702,00.html
\_ People on wall don't discuss. They just echo each other and
say "w00t!".
\_ Then add to the discussion. Anonymous Coward. -scotsman
\_ This is what wall reminds me of:
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame69.html -- ilyas
\_ http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame88.html
\_ Whoa. It's aaron with a fro!
\_ I hate Oliver Stone. --aaron
\_ I find it amusing that the only thing aaron
could find to counter the caricature of himself
was that he does not like Oliver Stone. Way
to go aaron! You are not a 1-d stereotype!
You are a HUMAN BEING!
\_ Congratulations! You got the joke! --aaron
\_ Congratulations! You are a cardboard
cutout! It's not a joke, it's depressing.
\_ Anonymous insults sure are noble.
\_ Anonymous insults sure are noble.
\_ Anonymous insults sure are noble.
(it's time someone stepped in to
terminate the recursion). -- ilyas
\_ Actually, insulting an anonymous
person anonymously is perfectly
symmetrical. Slightly silly perhaps,
but no harm done. Insulting
someone by name is defamatory.
Do you really not understand this?
\_ Wow! You got the point of the
comment! Good for you! Now
maybe you can work on using
silverware without a bib!
\_ even Conan the Barbarian?
\_ Okay, I hate Oliver Stone except for Conan
\_ What about Wall Street? do you hate that?
\_ w00t! pwn3d! |
| 2004/10/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33926 Activity:moderate |
10/5 Truth: "To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence
that links the two [al Qaeda and Saddam] ... I have seen the answer to
that question migrate in the intelligence community over a period of a
year in the most amazing way ... Second, there are differences in the
intelligence community as to what the relationship was"
- Rumsfeld, Monday afternoon
Dubya's truth: "A question I answered today ... regrettably was
misunderstood ... I have acknowledged since September 2002 that there
were ties between Al-Qaeda and Iraq"
- Rumsfeld, Monday night, via web site
\_ Yoo-hoo, hello? Bush defenders, where are you now? Neo-cons?
\_ There are no "neo-cons" on the motd. It's a mde up term of the
left to make a word that sounds like "neo-nazi". Get over it.
No one is eating that bait. |
| 2004/10/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:33901 Activity:moderate |
10/4 here's a pretty good reason to not re elect gwbush,
his administration's efforts to outsource torture to other
countries.
http://csua.org/u/9b4
\_ Oh no! The horror! Humans hurting other humans! We should rewrite
our genetic code to stamp it out and live off the land.
\_ gave me a good chuckle
\_ Or a good reason TO re-elect him, depending on your POV.
\_ true. too bad i have to share the country with psychos.
\_ Republican: evil/stupid, Democrat: good/smart.
\_ WDYHA?
\_ If you think it is a GOOD reason, you should ask yourself
why we should outsource rather than doing it in house.
Outsourcing is unamerican! |
| 2004/10/1 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33878 Activity:moderate |
10/1 fuck you narrow minded liberals who have to resort to selectively
nuking when you can't make intelligent counter arguments. Expect
more mass deletion from now on.
\_ I can counter-argue anything you'd like, but if you ask me to debate
20 points with you, I'll just give you the finger. FWIW I did not
nuke your "debate". -dgies
\_ why don't we outsource the nuking of motd the same way GWB
outsourced killing bin Laden to Afghan warlords?
\_ You mean they'll ask for lots of $100 bills and then let the motd
escape? |
| 2004/9/30-10/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33848 Activity:moderate |
9/30 Republicans trying to pull a "Florida" in Ohio:
http://act04.org/paperstock
\_ How? No one pulled a "Florida" in the first place except the
lawyers after the fact.
\_ Um, bogus felons lists being used to prevent blacks from voting.
\_ Um, didn't happen.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/kirsanow200310150822.asp
If you don't believe his analysis, follow the link the the
actual investigation.
\_ ...are you for real?
\_ Yes, I am. And I read the report. Did you?
\_ Yes, I did, and I see a system that failed to
accomplish its goals.
\_ That article is from the guy who wrote the
dissent of the US Election Commission Report.
In other words, he was in the minority in his
opinion. The majority disagreed with him.
\_ Did you read his dissent? Did you read the facts
he presented in it?
\_http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch2.htm
Facts are such stubborn things. He claims no
one was disenfrachised. The commission found
at least 78. I read his "dissent." It was
nothing more than a partisan rant, just like
that article.
\_ "The majority of those witnesses who
experienced problems and who came before the
Commission testified that they were
ultimately able to cast their vote, despite
the problems they described; a few were not.
A chief flaw in the majority report,
however, is that it generally fails to
distinguish between problems of mere
inconvenience, difficulties caused by
bureaucratic inefficiencies, and incidents
of potential discrimination. In this way,
the complaint from the white male voter
whose shoes were muddied on the path to his
polling place is accorded the same degree of
seriousness as the case of the
seeing-impaired voter who required.but was
denied.assistance in reading the ballot, or
the African American voter who claimed she
was turned away from the polls at closing
time while a white man was not."
\_ The dissent was written by Thernstrom and
Redenbaugh. The article was written by Kirsanow.
\_ Sorry, got that wrong.
\_ truck in illegals, raise the dead to vote, democrats are
hypocrites.
\_ You can't possibly be comparing election fraud with wholesale
voter disenfranchisement based on race.
\_ So you think Democrats having the dead vote is ok? If it
was Repuiblicans who raised the dead every 4 years you'd
be the first raising hell about it.
\_ Since "wholesale voter disenfranchisement based on race"
didn't happen...
\_ http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm
\_ This was based on felonies (not race), and whites
were twice as likely to be incorrectly put on the
list.
\_ Uhm, you do realize that whites outnumber blacks
by more than a factor of 2x, yes?
\_ Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Yes? |
| 2004/9/20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33645 Activity:moderate |
9/20 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/20/eveningnews/main644664.shtml Burkett: "I also insisted when I sat down with your staff in the first face-to-face session, before I gave up any documents, I wanted to know what you were gonna do with them. And I insisted they be authenticated." The failure of CBS News to do just that, to properly, fully scrutinize the documents and their source, led to our airing the documents when we should not have done so. It was a mistake. CBS News deeply regrets it. \_ Then how come Burkett didn't provide CBS the original doc to be authenticated? \_ It's their fault for not insisting on it if they didn't get it. They aren't babies. They are adults with a professional responsibility to the public and special Constitutional protections. \_ The failure of CBS News to do just that ... \_ What a complete disgrace. The democrats and their media sycophants have sunk so low. sycophants have sunk so low. Their behavior completely vindicates Zell Miller. \_ wherefore art thou trollio? \_ "Uh! It says a bad thing about my media whores! You must be an evil trooooolll!!! No content reply required!" \_ so you're saying you aren't a troll? If you meant every word of what you wrote, then more power to you. |
| 2004/9/15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:33545 Activity:very high |
9/15 Emmanuel Goldstein at the RNC:
http://www.2600.com/rnc2004
\_ Yeah! Civil disobedience! What? You mean I might get
arrested for breaking the law?!? NO FAIR MAN!
\_ No, you get arrested for not breaking the law.
Do you seriously support jailing people for their political
beliefs?
\_ No, I support people being arrested for breaking the law
though. I just pointing out that it's really amusing how
protesters always seem to think that civil disobediance
should be legal. I'm not saying that that's what
everyone in New York was doing, but it's obvious
even from this report that a lot of "civil disobediance"
was going on.
\_ Goldstein was not breaking any laws. Did you read the
link?
\_ What site did you read? It sounds to me like a whole bunch
of people just got rounded up on the street and arrested
for no reason. Certainly *some* of them were breaking
the law, but to just arrest everyone when most are being
peaceful and law-abiding is political repression, plain
and simple.
\_ Well, we're only getting one side of the story. If
the NYPD arrested people without charging them, then
that's a tort case for illegal imprisonment. One would
have to read the charges to get a clearer picture.
I wonder what the total number of protestors was, the
percentage arrested was probably very small.
\_ So you don't see anything vaguely... oppressive
about mass roundups and incarceration of people
in order to arrest a few scattered people?
\_ Interesting, you assume that one side of the
story is valid without having heard the other.
Since neither you nor I (and please correct
me if I'm wrong) have all the facts pertaining
to the incident you presuppose that mass
oppression has occurred. I suppose it depends
on your definition of oppression. If incarceration
is simply oppression then all people incarcerated,
whether guilty or not, are oppressed. Being
detained can definitely be viewed as a type
of oppression. However, if you are trying to
infer from that that we are living in an
oppressive society then I believe that your
argument is rather weak. Sure, there is oppression
in the criminal justice system. I'm not quite
sure how you could have it any other way.
At least we don't guillotine people on the spot
and afford them the right to due process and
a right to seek damages through torts from
the government.
\_ You may wish to consult Amendment I, regarding
"freedom of assembly." [restored]
\_ Yer gonna need a permit for that. -troll
\_ nah, it didn't happen to supporters of the
President so no one cares. There were no
terrorist incidents, either, so it must have
been a good policy. Be proud of NY City's
finest! -troll
\_ This happens all the time in SF. Last time it
did, The City had to pay out $10k to each
person illegally incarcerated. I expect NYC
to end up doing the same thing. Municipalities
probably consider it money well spent. I
consider it a violation of civil liberties. |
| 2004/9/14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Military] UID:33523 Activity:nil |
9/14 I like this quote from the dailycal (About the assualt weapon ban:
"The 10-year-old law, a major achievement of Sen. Dianne
Feinstein, D-Calif., outlawed the types of weapons used in the
2000 Columbine High School shooting." 2000 < 10 years ago...
http://dailycal.org/article.php?id=16091
\_ were the weapons used in the columbine high school
shootings legally obtained or not?
\_ Or... maybe they were >10 years old.
\_ Next on CNN: Sen. Feinstein (D) proposes to prevent another
9/11-style terrorist attack by outlawing airplanes.
\_ When airplanes are outlawed, only outlaws will have airplanes.
\_ We should get right to the heart of the matter and outlaw all
criminal behavior. Then only criminals will commit crimes.
\_ Are you trying to suggest the ban is a bad idea because it did not
prevent all of the banned weapons from being used? People are still
being murdered, maybe we should repeal murder laws.
\_ It's kind of like stopping terrorism. You don't really notice how
many terrorist acts have been preempted from happening. Similarly,
you don't notice how many Columbine like incidents have been
prevented by the "assault" weapon ban.
\_ it's like sysadm. You don't know how good the sysadms are
until your machines crash. -underappreciated sysadm
\_ The pubbies are letting the assault weapons ban lapse so that
AMERICANS CAN LOAD UP ON ASSAULT WEAPONS TO DEFEND AMERIKKKA!!!
"If America shows uncertainty and weakness in this decade, the
world will drift toward tragedy." -GW Bush
(nevermind you will need to go out of CA state to get some ...) |
| 2004/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33504 Activity:high |
9/13 Won't a terrorist attack backfire? It may unite the country
behind the current administration
\_ i'd rather vote Kerry and let the United Nations take care of us
\_ Poster is incredibly stupid.
\_ but it will make Osama look /<-rad!
\_ If Osama and co had an opinion, they would WANT 4 more years
of Bush. "The one indespensible ally for Osama bin Laden is
US Foreign policy." From _Imperial Hubris_.
\_ Yes. Things have gone so well for Al Qaeda since 9/11.
\_ Have you been asleep? Sure, they lost an ally in the Taliban,
but they now have unrivalled support in Iraq, they're making
headway back into Afghanistan, and they're swamped with new
recruits. Oh, and the US pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Things
are looking pretty sweet for AQ these days.
\_ Read the 9/11 report. AQ is no longer an organization as
such, but a philosophy and an inspiration. We are
k-screwed, even if we do kill Bin Ladin. |
| 2004/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33490 Activity:kinda low |
9/13 The 4 Stages of 9-11: Democrat v. Republican
http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/2004/09/11
\_ The four stages of Ted Rall.
1) I am so smart
2) Pubbies are so stupid
3) I draw great art
4) Profit!!!
\_ I challenge you on 3).
\_ http://www.explodingdog.com
\_ My O'Reilly-watching younger brother actually mirrors the Republican
caricature pretty well. When I showed him the http://drudgereport.com
video of the reporter blowing up, he said: "Is he from al-Jazeera?
Good!" He routinely makes "kill all of them" statements. -op |
| 2004/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33472 Activity:very high |
9/11 Happy 9/11 Anniversary! Or, maybe not so happy, I don't know...
\_
\
"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that
says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'"
[President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time
on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."
[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]
\_ I am glad you like to edit his speeches because he is so
difficult to understand.
\_ You do realize his sentiments simply reflected pretty much that
of the American public, at the time. Taking quotes out of context
won't make a bush voter vote kerry. |
| 2004/9/10 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33455 Activity:high |
9/10 I guess we are learning from Britain...
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/090904_ap_ns_camera.html
\_ For all Americans who've not yet visited the UK (it's worst in
London) and who can't imagine why massive CCTV surveillance is a
bad thing:
-It hasn't cut down on violent crime (in fact, the various
face recognition trials conducted in the UK failed to snag a
single suspect)
-It's leading to suggestions of even further surveillance (such
as satellite monitoring of car "black boxes" by the police, or
even the ability to shut down a vehicle remotely if it's speeding)
-Most cameras are connected to their equivalent of the DMV which
will have a ticket printed and in the mail, fully automatic,
within seconds of nailing you
-Fantastic amounts of CCTV footage, supposedly kept confidential
under "trust us"-type privacy legislation, finds its way into
sensationalist TV shows not even worthy of fox (like people having
sex in their car, with voiceovers from the cops watching and
making fun of them.)
In short, be very very very afraid. -John
\_ More taxes, less effectiveness! w00t! |
| 2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic] UID:33443 Activity:high |
9/9 Islamic militants attack Austrailian Embassy in Indonesia.
As usual, they kill a whole lot of innocent civilians, and not
one Australian.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6195871
\_ It is erroneous to write "as usual ... and not one Australian".
cf. Bali bombing. "oooohhh ....!" |
| 2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33428 Activity:very high |
9/8 So after the happy siege, the russians are now saying they will
launch preemptive strikes against terrorist bases anywhere in the
world. Interesting, that. -- ilyas
\_ Their big terrorist problem is right there and always has been:
Chechnya. Putin said he would solve Chechnya five years ago.
All he is doing now is trying to look like he's in control; there's
no new policy as far as I can tell.
\_ Well, I ll give them a year or five. If the russians are serious,
I look forward to the world's reaction to russian 'unilateralism'
with great amusement. -- ilyas
I'll look forward to the world's reaction to russian
'unilateralism' with great amusement. -- ilyas
\_ The UN has already washed its hands of the Chechnya problem,
so don't expect any 'unilateralism' comments on activities
in Chechnya. The Iraq problem, OTOH, was being handled by
an international coalition. The US decided to break with
that coalition and the policy of containment. Hence the
term 'unilateral.' Ilya, you're smarter than this. Are
you just bored?
\_ I am sorry, did you miss what russia actually said?
Preemptive strikes against bases _anywhere on earth_.
Not strikes in Chechnya which is old news, and no one
cares. At this point, the rhetoric itself is amusing me
to no end, since it's, you know, American rhetoric.
On a slightly unrelated note, comments like 'Ilya, you're
smarter than this' are the flip side of the coin with
'You are an idiot' printed on the front. It's a bland
tom holubesque insult slightly sugar coated. You need to
work on your habit of going after the man reflexively as a
conclusion to anything. I mean this is the motd so it's
ok, but in real life people will sort of stare at you.
-- ilyas
\_ Putin == Strong Soviet Leader!
Americans are with the Chechen terrorists, just like
supporting the Afghanistan insurgents!
\_ Containment? In what way was the Oil For Stuff program
containing anything? Who was doing this containment?
France, Germany, and Russia all had multi-billion dollar
deals with Hussein. They sure as hell weren't helping
to contain anything. Are you talking about Guam or
something?
\_ Containing Saddam from being a threat to his neighbors,
and to us from the possibility of his giving WMDs to
terrorists. Bush incorrectly concluded he had WMDs
because the CIA is supposed to be smarter than him and
he thought that was fine. The world was still looking
at a highly circumstantial American case. And Saddam
was not a threat to his neighbors. Are you a total
ignoramus?
\_ http://www.counterpunch.org/leopold06272003.html
Both the CIA and The State Dept said we had him
contained just fine.
\_ Apparently the CIA's opinion changed after 9/11.
They didn't want Saddam on TV saying, "Take that
stupid Americans" and the CIA not having said
anything.
\_ "And frankly [the sanctions] have worked. He has not
developed any significant capability with respect to
weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbors. So in
effect, our policies have strengthened the security
of the neighbors of Iraq..." -- Secretary Powell,
24 Feb 2001 ... So containment was working until 9/11
at which point Bush had an excuse to invade Iraq.
\_ Dubya wasn't listening to Powell after 9/11.
He was listening to the CIA, "no doubt" Cheney,
and "slam-dunk" Tenet.
\_ And you expected dramatic action a week later? A week later the
US was still looking for a target and making speeches.
\_ Listen, dufus: The U.S. had an obvious enemy in Afghanistan,
and had not done anything yet. Russia has been stomping all
over Chechnya for the last five years and more.
\_ It is quite understandable that Russians would use this siege
as an excuse to go after Chechens with links to sesessionalists in
as an excuse to go after Chechen sesessionalist leaders living in
other countries. A number of Chechen leaders have received political
assylum in Europe and Middle east. They might or might not be linked
to Chechen terrorism. They all deny charges of terrorism but Russia
claims they all have links to terrorists and demands their
extradictions. No credible evidence of terrorist links has been
extraditions. No credible evidence of terrorist links has been
presented so far and the Russian requests have been frowned upon. A
few months ago, a Chechen ex-president who was living in Qatar was
assassinated. Qatari intelligence services with the help of CIA
quickly traced the assassination to the Russian special services.
Two russian agents have been convicted and sentensed to life in
prison in Qatar. Russians tried denying any involvment but the
evidence was overwhelming. What Russians are now saying is that what
happened in Beslan gives them a moral right to go after Chechen
leaders living in other countries. Europeans aren't buying this
argument.
\_ Will the Europeans bring it to the UN when their people start
getting blown up on a regular basis? Or just knuckle under and
elect socialists like Spain who will turtle them up until it's
too late? The Islamic world has been fighting against the west
for a thousand years. They still are. It is only now that some
Western nations have come to realise this.
\_ Which I guess goes to show how bad the Islamic World is
at warfare these days.
\_ http://strange.timetrip.net/?entry=throwrocks -John
\_ Would you mind giving a summary of this? I
don't like to watch videos at work.
\_ It's about 20 seconds long. Sight-gag, largely.
\_ A thousand years? The Islamic world? Using the same
broad generalizations that fuel statements like those, the
Poles are part of an economic powerhouse and empire that
has been enslaving and exploiting the third world for 500
years, and Laos is part of a technological revolution.
\_ The Poles don't make speeches to this day about how they
will be retaking Spain.
\_ When the Europeans start being blown up, then the right
thing to do would be to go after the terrorists and I am
sure they well. But my point was that it generally appears
that Russia is pursuing its own political goals by going
after the Chechen leadership in exile. For example,
when Russia presented the "evidence" that Aslan Maskhadov's
representative, Ahmed Zakaev, is a terrorist, the British
laughed so hard that they gave him a political assylum.
\_ So it is ok for EU to sit back until they're getting blown
up, too? Then going after terrorists will be ok? The
British have opened the doors and provided legal
protection to all sorts of vicious evil human garbage.
The Brits giving asylum to someone means little.
\_ That's the whole point. The Europeans are not getting
blown up, nor will they be, because they are no longer
imperialists nor do they support Isreal unblinkingly.
America still cannot admit to itself that these attacks
are the inevitable results of imperial policies. |
| 2004/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:33363 Activity:very high |
9/5 They Knifed Babies, They Raped Girls
It should be pointed out that Beslan is a small Christian
enclave among a Muslim population.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1208007/posts
\_ And the Russians raped and killed Chechens, a small Muslim enclave
ruled by a Christian population. Right?
\_ No, the Russians didn't rape anyone. Killing is what happens in
war.
\_ Well, the Russians have never been famous for their
| kinder, gentler military. (Well, unlesss you're
| comparing to the imperialist Japanese) But they probably
| weren't so systematic about it.
Sigh. Do I really have to dig up links?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2618021.stm
http://www.torturecare.org.uk/news/newsRelease04-15-04.php
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,820261,00.html
Russian rapes are widely reported, although often without direct proof,
but do we have direct proof of this "They Raped Girls" allegation?
\_ I don't ever recall the Russians taking a school and shooting 200
children in the back, do you?
\_ Maybe, but they blew up entire villages and so forth. Why
split hairs? Fact is the Russians have no justification for
being there. It's left over from old Russian imperialism.
If the Russians wipe out a village it's fine, but some
terrorists take over a school it's unthinkable brutality.
\_ Look, no one disputes that what the hostage-takers did at the
school was dispicable. I think what the pp is trying to point
out, though, is that they didn't do it just because they were
bored and felt like being evil. To prevent this sort of thing
from happening again, you need to understand why it
happened in the first place. If you adopt the "all Muslims
are evil" posture of these freeper idiots, then there is no
hope.
\_ It happened because some people *are* evil. This was it.
No one said all muslims are evil. To prevent this sort of
thing from happening again, you need to understand that
some people *are* evil, they mut be found, they must be
killed before they commit more acts of evil. You're
strawmanning with the all muslims are evil line.
\_ "If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously
committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to
separate them from the rest of us and destroy them.
But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the
heart of every human being. And who is willing to
destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
\_ Hey, I hear ya. There are people who
are just born evil, and there's nothing you
can do about it. But I don't think comparing
these guys to Son-of-Sam/Zodiac Killer
types is entirely correct. Some people are
born evil, some people aspire to evilness,
and some people have evilness thrust
upon them. In which group are these guys?
As for "all Muslims are evil", did you read
the entire text of the link you posted?:
"And to anyone who is appalled at the
prospect of killing "innocent" Chechens,
these scum didn't grow up in a vacuum.
They were raised to be fiends by other
fiends. It's us or them."
"If the muslims will not police
their own, make Mecca Melt."
If you want, I can pull even more
egregious examples out the
freeper bunghole.
\_ Woah! You mean people sometimes post stupid
crap on Internet message boards? No Way!
\_ Dude, don't be fatuous. You posted a freeper
link, and I made a comment on the content of
that link. You then accused me ok creating a
strawman argument, and I then posted evidence
that I was responding to statements in the
link you posted, and now I am somehow to blame
for you posting a dumb-ass freeper link? Sheesh.
\_ A) I'm not the same guy. B) Perhaps he
was trying to link to the article, not
to what a bunch of freepers SAID about the
article.
\_ watch how easy it is to link to the
article without linking to freeper
noise:
http://csua.org/u/8xo [mirror.co.uk]
that took me all of about 10 seconds.
\_ http://www.filibustercartoons.com
\_ It is not surprising that this attack happened in Beslan and
not elsewhere. There have been always attacks on Ossetia throughout
90s and 2000s but most didn't seem to be worthy of coverage to the
western media (those were mostly explosions on the markers, etc).
It is quite possible that this time the terrorists were intending to
instigate ethnic strife in all of Northern Caucasus. Many Ossets
are already talking about revenge on the Chechen and Ingush peoples
living in their republic. Beslan is the third largest city of the
autonomous republic of Northern Ossetia. Here are some facts that
put Ossets at odds with the Chechens:
1. Ossets are predominantly Christian (although there is a small
muslim minority among Ossets, mostly living around the
town called Digora).
2. Ossets are probably the most pro-Russian people on the Northern
Caucasus. While they are very proud of their Ossetic identity,
they are also very proud to have been part of USSR and now
Russia. (BTW, they are also very proud of the well-known fact
that Stalin's true father was an Ossetian from South Ossetian
part of Georgia). In addition Russians seem to favor Ossets in
their territorial conflicts with the neighboring Ingushetia and
Georgia.
3. In the early 90s, Ossets have been involved in a short lived
but very violent territorial conflict with the neighboring
republic of Ingushetia. Ingush were demanding the return of the
territories that were taken away from them by Stalin after WW2
for sympathizing with Germans. During the conflict Ossets
succeeded in ethnically cleansing their territories from the
Ingush who have moved in after they were rehabilitated after
Stalin's death. Nothing has been done to solve this conflict
since then and both sides consider themselves as victims. It is
important to note that the Ingush are ethnically very closely
related to Chechens. (they have similar languages, customs, etc)
\_ short recent article on the ossentians in The Exile
http://www.exile.ru/2004-August-19/war_nerd.html - danh
\_ Thanks, that was among the most informative posts I've
read on the MOTD. Like information I would expect to
find on, gasp, http://freerepublic.com
\_ The signal to noise ratio is much higher in places
like the Journal of Foreign Affairs. |
| 2004/9/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33359 Activity:moderate |
9/5 U.S. Official Says Close to Catching Bin Laden: http://csua.org/u/8xe Hey, Boondocks called this moooonths ago. \_ I'll predict that he will not be captured before the election. And I'd be grateful if morons would stop informing the press that "we're close to" something. I'm reading the 9/11 commission report, and a (pre-9/11) leak to the press at one point caused Bin Laden to change his communications and made him much harder to track. \_ I agree with you on the general concept but simply saying "we're close" for the *th time isn't a big deal. Been saying that for 3 years now about every 6 weeks. \_ I am also in the middle of reading it(I'm not the dude above.) It's worth remembering that if Pakistan hadn't fucked us, Bin Laden would've been killed pre-9/11. I agree with you about leaks, but I would also say that the fact that no one in the Pakistani gov't is in the loop is neither bad nor suprising. \_ The report makes it pretty clear that unless the intelligence had been 100% with zero chance of collateral damage, no one would have taken the necessary action to kill OBL before 9/11. But yes, Pakistan was pretty clearly feeding info to OBL. \_ cut and pasted directly from chapter 4 of the 9/11 report: "Later on August 20[1998], Navy vessels in the Arabian Sea fired their cruise missiles. Though most of them hit their intended targets, neither Bin Ladin nor any other terrorist leader was killed. Berger told us that an after-action review by Director Tenet concluded that the strikes had killed 20-30 people in the camps but probably missed Bin Ladin by a few hours.Since the missiles headed for Afghanistan had had to cross Pakistan, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was sent to meet with Pakistan's army chief of staff to assure him the missiles were not coming from India. Officials in Washington speculated that one or another Pakistani official might have sent a warning to the Taliban or Bin Ladin." \_ That was right after the embassy bombings, when there was a brief flare-up of will. From p.140: "It was in Kandahar that perhaps the last, and most likely the best, opportunity arose for targeting Bin Ladin with cruise missiles before 9/11. In May 1999, CIA assets in Afghanistan reported on Bin Ladin.s location in and around Kandahar over the course of five days and nights.The reporting was very detailed and came from several sources. If this intelligence was not .actionable,. working-level officials said at the time and today, it was hard for them to imagine how any intelligence on Bin Ladin in Afghanistan would meet the standard. Communications were good, and the cruise missiles were ready..This was in our strike zone,. a senior military officer said. .It was a fat pitch, a home run.. He expected the missiles to fly.When the decision came back that they should stand down, not shoot, the officer said,.we all just slumped.. He told us he knew of no one at the Pentagon or the CIA who thought it was a bad gamble. Bin Ladin .should have been a dead man. that night, he said." \_ The problem with all this is not that it isn't true, I believe it is and I'm both pissed off any highly disappointed in both the GWB and Clinton admins for not nabbing him years ago, it is that by the time they could've hit him in Afghanistan, 9/11 was fated to be. Killing bin Laden would not have stopped that mission at that point. Had he been nabbed in the 90s, then yes, probably, but not guaranteed then either. The real tragedy is that it took 9/11 to understand we were at war. We'd been attacked dozens of times yet no one (very few) in the West understood or believed. Most of Western Europe still doesn't get it. I think the Brits get it, kind of, after the Northern Ireland thing. The French and Germans and Spanish do not get it at all. The Russians might have just figured it out. Maybe. The rest are hopeless. \_ UBL! UBL! UBL is the STANDARD! Abbreviation. |
| 2004/9/5 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33356 Activity:nil |
9/4 A sagging economy, endless violence in Iraq, record high oil prices,
\- not "record high" [yet]
oil prices were higher
in early 80s. --psb
a bad employment picture, an uncertain future, and everybody in the
world hates us, yet the Democrats are now BEHIND in the polls? WTF?
What the hell happened? How can the Dems lose both in 2000 and now
it looks like 2004? Are you guys cursed?
\_ Perhaps a belief that, as bad as things are, the Democrats
would have made an even greater mess, and better days are ahead.
\_ 3% GDP growth and 5.4 % unemployment is a sagging economy?Contrast
that with Carter's double digit inflation, interest rates, and
unemployment. Oil prices will be ~30-35$ per barrel by November.
Also, maybe this has something to do with it:
Boy who begged for water was bayoneted
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1207663/posts |
| 2004/9/4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33349 Activity:kinda low |
9/3 Although not funny, it is sort of like the old joke about a Republican
is a Democrat who got mugged. Here's Putin finally "getting it":
http://tinyurl.com/5qd7h
\_ Who do you think the remark at the end is aimed at? -John
\_ Original post is highly misleading, as Putin has been "tough" on
Chechen separatists all along, as his main thing was to crush them
his last five years in office.
He is having his own mini political catastrophe: He is
synonymous with being very tough on the Chechens, and look at
what it's gotten him?
I believe Russians will see right through this, even though Putin
does control the TV and print media these days.
Washington Post editorial:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60580-2004Sep3.html
"Russia's abominable behavior has helped spark but does not
excuse Chechen terrorists and their partners in crime."
An even better one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57859-2004Sep2.html
"On Mr. Yeltsin's watch, the Russian army turned Grozny, the
Chechen capital, into a ghost town of corpses and rubble. Tens of
thousands of Chechens fled the country. As we wrote on Tuesday,
President Vladimir Putin has since made the situation worse,
launching a second invasion, cutting off the region from aid groups
and journalists, refusing negotiations, and allowing Russian troops
to torture and torment Chechen civilians."
\_ You're confusing the Chechens who may or may not have a valid
gripe against the Russians with the muslim terrorists who just
killed about 350 people, all civilians, mostly women and
children. Putin is saying he fucked up on terrorism, this has
little if anything to do with his actions in Chechen territory
which is a national issue between two lands with defined
borders. |
| 2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33315 Activity:nil |
9/2 http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/02/binladen.wealth.ap/index.html Bin Laden didn't support 9/11 afterall. \_ rtf911cr |
| 2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:33308 Activity:nil |
9/2 http://csua.org/u/8wm (LA Times) A senior Russian security official said authorities are faced with a dilemma even worse than the 2002 seizure of the Dubrovka Theater in Moscow by Chechen militants, which led to the death of 129 hostages and 41 guerrillas when Russian troops gassed the theater and stormed in. "The situation is much worse than Dubrovka. Believe me, much worse ... It seems almost certain that the hostage-takers are not really interested in negotiations, or any demands. So far, we haven't gotten any coherent statement of what they really want. ... They are just biding their time, as if waiting for us to start storming this school, and then they will blow everything up. I think they are ready to blow themselves up, together with the hostages, in any case. It seems to be their one and only plan." So, you are Putin. What do you do? Please withold jibes about vodka and "In Soviet Russia ...". \_ Decimate the Chechens (i.e. kill every 10th). Do so after every terrorist act by the Chechens. \_ I read that as Chickens and was very confused... \_ "Fear...will keep the local systems in line." \_ As far as the current crisis, there is really only 2 options. A siege, starve them out, or gas 'em again. Probably niether would be very effiective. I guess the previous guy's idea might work over the long run. \_ Why not a standoff while you try to bring in some hostage-taker's relatives and religious authority figures and see if they can convince them to let everyone go in exchange for amnesty. \_ Oooo, family members. Good idea. But who's getting the amnesty? The terrorists or the family members? North N. Korean style would be to kill the terrorists AND their extended families. \_ tactical nukes over rebel hideouts \_ Why do you hate thermonuclear weapons? \_ You're really a moron, you know that? You undercut any sensible counter-argument Cheney and friends *could* have. \_ I don't think the thermonuclear comment was made seriously. You're STILL the moron. \_ Cheney offers to help with Russian hostage situation! "We have to many of these things anyway, and I've always wanted to drop one or two on Ruskies!" |
| 2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, ERROR, uid:33292, category id '18005#6.25625' has no name! , ] UID:33292 Activity:high |
9/2 Democrats, You over slept - It isn't 9/10 Anymore!
http://lifetrek.blogspot.com/2004/09/democrats-you-over-slept-it-isnt-910.html
\_ So what you're saying is, 9/11 changed everything? I haven't heard
that one before!
\_ He's saying your party didn't notice.
\_ God, grow up freeper. Did I say that I was a Democrat?
\_ Did I say I was a freeper? I'm probably wrong. You're
likely to be too far left for the Democrats. I'm sorry
if I insulted a socialist by calling them a Democrat.
\_ Gosh, I'm not sure I got the point of all of those speeches at
the RNC. Maybe if they'd held it on September 11, the point would
have been clear.
\_ "...enviro wacko's [sic]..." "...job loses [sic]..."
"...full years [sic] economic activity..."
The guy's a moron. |
| 2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:33243 Activity:kinda low |
8/30 All right, I googled for the "$8 million" to re-sod Central Park,
but I didn't find anything. Please help.
\_ jesus fucking christ, youy're a dumbass. second link from google:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/224945p-193242c.html
They say 18 million. whatever.
\_ What's your problem? I asked nicely.
\_ ok, sorry. nothing personal, i just hate everyone.
\_ 100,000 protestors... 100,000 America-hating liberals, all in one
convenient location, in a major landmark of a city known to be a
terrorist target. What a waste of opportunity!
\_ This joke telegraphed itself about a mile ahead. I was
waiting looking at my watch for this sad mule to finally
pull into the freaking station and ring the bell, already. --acs
\_ Sorry. Wasn't feeling very sassy today. |
| 2004/8/30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33227 Activity:nil 57%like:34578 |
8/30 What would a terrorist attack in NYC do to the election?
How about if it came in Houston? |
| 2004/8/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33214 Activity:very high |
8/29 John Ashcroft, censoring quotes from the Supreme Court:
http://csua.org/u/8ta (The Memory Hole)
\_ LET THE EEEAGLE SOOOAR!
\_ Citizen! You will be added to President Ashcroft's Official
Post-Coup Blacklist!
\_ What don't you protest against Osama?
\_ What don't you protest against Osama? Civil liberties
are unequivocally the most extensive that they have ever been
in this country.
\_ Osama is against BushCo and so am I. Kerry in 2004!
\_ What evidence do you have for Osama being against BushCo?
\_ Freak. It was sarcasm.
\_ Repeat after me: it is possible to see that BOTH Osama and
Ashcroft are separately and simultaneously dangerous to our
health and safety.
\_ Unequivocally? There's a secret travel blacklist that prevents
some citizens from travelling without being subjected to
humiliating searches and questioning, and the FBI has been
questioning people on what they've been seen reading in public.
See, I seem to remember not having this situation in, say, 1994.
\_ I'm pretty sure you're trolling, but your suggestion that civil
liberties are more extensive than they've ever been is laughable.
1. Uncontestable secret access to you book-buying and library
records.
2. Terrorism suspects denied lawyers on the grounds that the
lawyer could be told secret information by the suspect.
3. Terrorism suspects denied exculpatory evidence and subject
to hearsay testimony.
4. Shopper escorted out of a mall for wearing a 'Peace' T-shirt.
5. Quarter-million person protest denied a permit to protest
because it would HURT THE GRASS.
Why don't you ask the civil liberties watchdogs before mouthing
off about how free we are.
\_ #4 is hilarious because it has nothing to do with civil
liberties. A store is a private place that can remove you
for any reason at all. #5 you're leaving out the part that
they spent roughly $8 million to fix/replace the grass about
7 years ago and the $8 million is too high a price to pay
so you can stomp around yelling about no blood for oil or
whatever this year's kewl protest statement is.
\_ Look at you. You're pathetic. You just got fucking
owned. This is the best you can do? Get bent. --aaron
\_ owned? uhm ok, whenever you stop smoking, let us know.
i tore apart the 2 easy items so i got owned? whatever.
\_ Hi bigot!
\_ Hi brownshirt!
\_ Um, that's a letter FROM the ACLU *to* the court.
\_ Yes, but the relevant quote is from the Supreme Court (US vs.
US District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan)
\_ Was it really from the court or was it a summary? I don't
have the original to compare it.
\_ Direct quote. Here's the original (from FindLaw):
http://csua.org/u/8tk
\_ When you show weakness, terrorists win! -dubya
\_ Please tell me, how is this not true? In life as
well as war. Boy has living in Berkeley made you
into a beatnik. |
| 2004/8/29 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33203 Activity:nil |
8/28 For those of you who are wondering why conservitives tend to
assume liberals hate america, go down and check out the
magazines at Berkeley Bowl. The articles all have titles like,
"The Evils of Capitalism" and "Why the American Empire can't
last" etc. They sound exactly like islamic terrorists. You
could do a word replace script on a statement of Bin Laden's,
replacing [America will be destroyed because they] "Don't follow
the teachings of Allah" with "Don't follow the teachings of
Nature/Mother Earth/Pychology/Sociology/etc" and get an article
for one of these mags.
\_ Speaking of hateful rants...
\_ Not everyone on the left is a liberal.
\_ Smart liberals know that dumb liberals are what makes conservatives
conservative.
\_ If you listen to Herr Lakoff, what makes conservatives
conservative is their dominant metaphor:
http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html
If you listen to me, what makes a conservative is what makes
anybody else -- a choice of a moral system. -- ilyas |
| 2004/8/24 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33124 Activity:nil 68%like:33116 |
8/24 Two Russian passenger jets, taking off from same Moscow airport,
crash within five minutes of each other. One sent out a hijacking
signal before going down. 90+ feared dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html
\_ It's a Bush dirty trick! Rove secretly bribed the pilots to
crash the planes so they can run ads to discredit Kerry.
\_ Nah, the only dirty trick we're expecting is capturing Osama
before the election, and other fiddling with the color-coded
alert system. (I think all major points of interest will go
Orange 2-4 weeks before the election).
\_ You think they have bin Laden in prison some where and will
trot him out in late October? And no one has leaked this?
\_ nah are you some right-wing weenie? guess again.
\_ If terrorism is involved, I would say its highly likely to be
Chechen rebels. They have committed plenty of terrorist acts
before. Also, this is a RUSSIAN airline we are talking about, so
you can't rule out massive equipment failure.
\_ Don't forget the pilots, drinking vodka and letting kids take
over the plane!
\_ kids?
\_ Da Comrade, one for me, one for plane. |
| 2004/8/24 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33116 Activity:nil 68%like:33124 |
8/24 Two Russian passenger jets, taking off from same Moscow airport,
disappear from radar within five minutes of each other. One verified
crash, the other missing. 100+ feared dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html
\_ It's a Bush dirty trick! Rove secretly bribed the pilots to
crash the planes so they can run ads to discredit Kerry.
\_ Nah, the only dirty trick we're expecting is capturing Osama
before the election, and other fiddling with the color-coded
alert system. (I think all major points of interest will go
Orange 2-4 weeks before the election).
\_ You think they have bin Laden in prison some where and will
trot him out in late October? And no one has leaked this?
\_ nah are you some right-wing weenie? guess again.
\_ If terrorism is involved, I would say its highly likely to be
Chechen rebels. They have committed plenty of terrorist acts
before. Also, this is a RUSSIAN airline we are talking about, so
you can't rule out massive equipment failure.
\_ Don't forget the pilots, drinking vodka and letting kids take
over the plane!
\_ kids?
\_ Da Comrade, one for me, one for plane. |
| 2004/8/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33028 Activity:nil |
8/19 Pakistan does it right: Torture is all these killers deserve!
http://csua.org/u/8o6 |
| 2004/8/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32931 Activity:high |
8/16 Orson Scott Card rambling book review/essay, that eventually comes
to an interesting synthesis between republican and Democrat views
on the war on terror.
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-08-08-1.html
\_ Hi emarkp!
\_ WRong, but nice try. -op
\_ Indeed, I hadn't even seen this article yet (though I read the
column, the current one was just posted). -emarkp
\_ Wait, let me get my hat and my magic stones!
\_ Hi aaron!
\_ Hi ilyas! |
| 2004/8/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32907 Activity:very high |
8/14 Norman Podhoretz, "World War IV: How it Started, What it Means, and
Why We Have to Win". http://www.commentarymagazine.com/podhoretz.htm
The reason I post this is not because I believe or disbelieve his
historical world view. The reason to read this is to get an all-in-one
-place summary of every terrorist attack going back to the 70s. I
found the number of attacks shocking. I knew about each one but I have
never seen them together like this.
\_ Good article, a few serious errors though (ex.: Khomeini's
motivation to not have the Soviet embassy stormed--USSR was not
a major sponsor of the Shah.) Also, he makes a common mistake--
"sneers and jeers" are not directed at the Bush speech use of
"good" and "evil", but rather at ham-fisted and faulty (and
dishonest and ineffective) response to these. -John
\_ You haven't read the 9/11 commission report, have you? read it.
everything in your article is covered in much greater detail, and
without the partisan noise. Pundits love to trash the 9/11
report because if people actually read stuff like that they'd
be out of a job(which they should be.)
ok, i retract my attack on your article; it's actually pretty
interesting. Everyone should still read the 9/11 report.
\_ I didn't read the report, true. Is there a historical summary
of events section? It's not my article. I'm just posting for
the historical summary part. I don't accept or deny the rest
of it. -op
\_ read it. seriously. All the pundits are trying to spin it
as being useless because it doens't trash the politician
they hate(be it clinton or bush), but just sticks to the
facts. It gives all the historical background on the
attacks in your article, all kinds of background info
on al qaeda, lots of relevant information on how the structure
of our government is or isn't set up to deal with terrorism,
and some basic American history that everyone should
know but probably most people don't. And that's just from
the first five chapters i've read so far. It also gives
a blow-by-blow narrative of *exactly* what happened on 9-11-01
that I don't think you'll find anywhere else.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911
\_ Good article, thank you. -- ilyas
\_ [ troll gone ]
\_ "What Clarke for all practical purposes did--both at the hearings
and in his hot-off-the-press book, Against All Enemies--was to blame
Bush, who had been in office for a mere eight months when the attack
occurred, while exonerating Clinton, who had spent eight long years
doing little of any significance in response to the series of
terrorist assaults on American targets in various parts of the world
that were launched on his watch."
Clarke did blame Bush, but the rest is flat-out wrong. You guys
should all know this when you read it.
It's so sad that Americans still don't get it. What
happened to |
| 2004/8/13 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32890 Activity:high |
8/13 I think terrorists are spamming me.
\_ As a representative of the President of Nigeria, I have a special
opportunity for you.
\_ Ex-president that is. |
| 2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32844 Activity:nil 84%like:32820 |
8/11 Al Qaeda plans to assassinate a major western leader when Osama gives
the go-ahead. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040811-123531-3824r.htm
I'll bet anything they're going after Kerry. If I was bin Laden, the
\- "we had to incarcerate the candidate to save him"
last person in the world I'd want as President of the US would be a
war hero who promised to fight a more 'sensitive war on terror'. Run,
John! Run!
Hey, this sounds familiar:
"The goal of the next attack is twofold: to damage the U.S. economy
and to undermine the U.S. election," the official said. "The view of
al Qaeda is 'anybody but Bush.' "
\_ "The one unrelaceable assett for al Quaeda is US FOreign policy",
if al Qaueda is for "anyone but bush", they are dumber than I
thought. Iraq was a christmas present for Osama.
\_ Sure was. Why go for the Americans near Mecca when we can
tryfor the U.S. itself ! Committing terrorism is so much
more effective thousands of miles away from America.
\_ It's pretty obvious Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
\_ What about the scores of pages describing potential targets
written in perfect English found in the latest arrest?
(e.g., can't get a truck in the garage, drive a limo instead)
\_ You are missing the forest for the trees. There's no doubt
Al Qaeda is smart enough to organize 911, etc.
Nevertheless, something about the way they are going about
their business that strikes me as fundamentally dumb.
-- ilyas
\_ Targeting a high-profile individual for assassination,
when there are so many out there that you can't always
protect, is dumb?
Please identify what is fundamentally dumb.
\_ Any extremist organization is fundementally dumb.
If they were smart they wouldn't be extremist.
\_ Ok. Say they succeed. They assassinate Bush.
Or set off a dirty nuke in Los Angeles or something.
What will this get them? America already isn't very
happy with the Arab world, and even Arab Americans.
Do you realize what will happen? We will most likely:
(a) institute the draft (probably won't be necessary
with the volume of volunteers)
(b) convert to war footing a la WWII
(c) absolutely SQUISH the entire Middle East, and
possibly institute a long term occupation.
Is this what Al Qaeda is trying to accomplish?
Because that's what it's going to get -- a really
pissed off US in their backyard for 20, 30, 50 years.
I think people underestimate the US. The US has an
itchy trigger finger kind of frontier culture, to
this day. The US also has the industrial and
scientific resources to basically impose their will
on most of the world, and if the US perceives itself
to be in genuine danger, woe be to everyone else.
-- ilyas
\_ That's all very nice and melodramatic but an
assassination cannot produce such a reaction.
There (probably) would not be any link to any
national entity. Go after the Saudis? America
is very cozy with the Saudis and will not just
"go and squish" them based on an Al Qaeda attack.
\_ Sure, but eventually, Al Qaeda will do enough
damage where the US feels genuinely threatened.
What then? How do they hope to win? It's
completely stupid. You don't want to fight
the US. -- ilyas
\_ How do you target al Qaeda? We already
took out Afghanistan, and are making sure
Iran doesn't get nukes.
\_ You do understand that al Qaeda wants a war of the
U.S. vs. the Arab world, right? You do understand
that they understand that the U.S. has a
superior military capability, and will win in any
conventional conflict between nations? So why
then, do they continue? I don't think it's
because "Al Qaeda is dumb".
\_ I think it is. If it truly becomes a
free-for-all between US and Arabs, US nukes the
Arabs. Game over. Al Qaeda is trying to
provoke the power that can take on all of the
rest of the world put together, most likely.
They are irrational religious fanatics obsessed
with 'holy war.' If their wildest dreams come
true, this 'holy war' will only get them, and
likely most other (innocent) Arabs killed.
Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
\_ Well, you overwrote my post, but let's say
al Qaeda assassinates Bush. Just how does
the U.S. decide "the Arab world" is the
culprit, and then justify: "SQUISH the
entire Middle East".
\_ I always love it when people accuse me
of overwriting their posts. Or writing
stuff on the motd when I am really
asleep. You must have spyware in my
head or something. As for the US,
a blow up of two buildings resulting in
the US invading 2 countries. If serious
attacks continue, the invasions continue.
The 'Arab World' is a hotbed of religious
fundamentalism which results in things
like Al Qaeda. The US can reasonably
conclude that one way to fight
fundamentalism is take over the Middle
East and institute reforms that way,
rather than wait for history. -- ilyas
\_ Dude, ilyas, you just overwrote my
post again. How are you editing
the motd?
\_ I also peed in your sink and slept
with yermom. -- ilyas
\_ I ask you again, how are you
editing the motd? I notice
you were using vi a second ago,
but I have a suspicion you were
using something else earlier
today. I mean, c'mon, I was
editing this thread, posted
a comment, and 30 seconds later
it's gone and in its place
is your post. This happened
twice in this very thread.
\_ I always use vi from soda.
I think your post got
overwritten because you
simply were editing during a
busy time. Mine get
overwritten too, for the
same reason. Blaming the
guy you are immediately
talking to is stupid -- lots
of conversations are happening
at the same time. -- ilyas
\_ So I have your word of
honor that you are very
certain you did not
overwrite this thread
today while using vi?
vi should print warnings;
what command are you
using to save? You aren't
using :w! I hope.
\_ I use :w. Vi gives
warnings. -- ilyas
\_ hm, I guess I don't
have your word yet.
\_ No you don't. But
feel free to blame
me anyways.
-- ilyas
\_ US can nuke the entire Arab world,
but occupying it is beyond US's
ability. It would bleed the US
to death financially. But yes,
I agree with you than Islamic
fundamentalism is a dead end. But
those people think they don't have
another choice, or rather, the
only other choice seems to be
the corrupt crony regimes like
Saudi Arabia, which they want to
overthrow.
\_ No way that 4% of the world's population can enforce
its will on the other 96%. Especially when some of
that 96% is armed with nukes.
\_ Yep. Check out this translation of an interview with Osama's
former bodyguard in the London Arabic paper Al-Quds Al-Arabi
http://cryptome.org/alqaeda-plans.htm
\_ But the problem is that Osama is not Christian.
\_ For the tinfoil hat crowd, ponder this: Bush assassinates Kerry
before the election and pins the blame on bin Laden.
\_ Nonono ... that would be Cheney orchestrating the plot.
Bush wouldn't have a clue. |
| 2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32820 Activity:very high 84%like:32844 |
8/10 Al Qaeda plans to assassinate a major western leader when Osama gives
the go-ahead. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040811-123531-3824r.htm
I'll bet anything they're going after Kerry. If I was bin Laden, the
last person in the world I'd want as President of the US would be a
war hero who promised to fight a more 'sensitive war on terror'. Run,
John! Run!
Hey, this sounds familiar:
"The goal of the next attack is twofold: to damage the U.S. economy
and to undermine the U.S. election," the official said. "The view of
al Qaeda is 'anybody but Bush.' "
\_ Man, that would make a good campaign ad for Bush. "The terrorists
say, 'anybody but Bush.' What do YOU say?"
\_ Maybe Bush is one reason they're attacking us in the first
place?
\_ Maybe Bush has put the fear of god into them?
\_ Haha, that's a good one.
\_ In the first place? Where were you during the Clinton
administration?
\_ "The one unrelaceable assett for al Quaeda is US FOreign policy",
if al Qaueda is for "anyone but bush", they are dumber than I
thought. Iraq was a christmas present for Osama.
\_ It's pretty obvious Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
\_ What about the scores of pages describing potential targets
written in perfect English found in the latest arrest?
(e.g., can't get a truck in the garage, drive a limo instead)
\_ You are missing the forest for the trees. There's no doubt
Al Qaeda is smart enough to organize 911, etc.
Nevertheless, something about the way they are going about
their business that strikes me as fundamentally dumb.
-- ilyas
\_ Targeting a high-profile individual for assassination,
when there are so many out there that you can't always
protect, is dumb?
Please identify what is fundamentally dumb.
\_ Any extremist organization is fundementally dumb.
If they were smart they wouldn't be extremist.
\_ Ok. Say they succeed. They assassinate Bush.
Or set off a dirty nuke in Los Angeles or something.
What will this get them? America already isn't very
happy with the Arab world, and even Arab Americans.
Do you realize what will happen? We will most likely:
(a) institute the draft (probably won't be necessary
with the volume of volunteers)
(b) convert to war footing a la WWII
(c) absolutely SQUISH the entire Middle East, and
possibly institute a long term occupation.
Is this what Al Qaeda is trying to accomplish?
Because that's what it's going to get -- a really
pissed off US in their backyard for 20, 30, 50 years.
I think people underestimate the US. The US has an
itchy trigger finger kind of frontier culture, to
this day. The US also has the industrial and
scientific resources to basically impose their will
on most of the world, and if the US perceives itself
to be in genuine danger, woe be to everyone else.
-- ilyas
\_ That's all very nice and melodramatic but an
assassination cannot produce such a reaction.
There (probably) would not be any link to any
national entity. Go after the Saudis? America
is very cozy with the Saudis and will not just
"go and squish" them based on an Al Qaeda attack.
\_ Sure, but eventually, Al Qaeda will do enough
damage where the US feels genuinely threatened.
What then? How do they hope to win? It's
completely stupid. You don't want to fight
the US. -- ilyas
\_ How do you target al Qaeda? We already
took out Afghanistan, and are making sure
Iran doesn't get nukes.
\_ You do understand that al Qaeda wants a war of the
U.S. vs. the Arab world, right? You do understand
that they understand that the U.S. has a
superior military capability, and will win in any
conventional conflict between nations? So why
then, do they continue? I don't think it's
because "Al Qaeda is dumb".
\_ I think it is. If it truly becomes a
free-for-all between US and Arabs, US nukes the
Arabs. Game over. Al Qaeda is trying to
provoke the power that can take on all of the
rest of the world put together, most likely.
They are irrational religious fanatics obsessed
with 'holy war.' If their wildest dreams come
true, this 'holy war' will only get them, and
likely most other (innocent) Arabs killed.
Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
\_ Well, you overwrote my post, but let's say
al Qaeda assassinates Bush. Just how does
the U.S. decide "the Arab world" is the
culprit, and then justify: "SQUISH the
entire Middle East".
\_ I always love it when people accuse me
of overwriting their posts. Or writing
stuff on the motd when I am really
asleep. You must have spyware in my
head or something. As for the US,
a blow up of two buildings resulting in
the US invading 2 countries. If serious
attacks continue, the invasions continue.
The 'Arab World' is a hotbed of religious
fundamentalism which results in things
like Al Qaeda. The US can reasonably
conclude that one way to fight
fundamentalism is take over the Middle
East and institute reforms that way,
rather than wait for history. -- ilyas
\_ Dude, ilyas, you just overwrote my
post again. How are you editing
the motd?
\_ I also peed in your sink and slept
with yermom. -- ilyas
\_ I ask you again, how are you
editing the motd? I notice
you were using vi a second ago,
but I have a suspicion you were
using something else earlier
today. I mean, c'mon, I was
editing this thread, posted
a comment, and 30 seconds later
it's gone and in its place
is your post. This happened
twice in this very thread.
\_ I always use vi from soda.
I think your post got
overwritten because you
simply were editing during a
busy time. Mine get
overwritten too, for the
same reason. Blaming the
guy you are immediately
talking to is stupid -- lots
of conversations are happening
at the same time. -- ilyas
\_ So I have your word of
honor that you are very
certain you did not
overwrite this thread
today while using vi?
vi should print warnings;
what command are you
using to save? You aren't
using :w! I hope.
\_ I use :w. Vi gives
warnings. -- ilyas
\_ hm, I guess I don't
have your word yet.
\_ No you don't. But
feel free to blame
me anyways.
-- ilyas
\_ No way that 4% of the world's population can enforce
its will on the other 96%. Especially when some of
that 96% is armed with nukes.
\_ Yep. Check out this translation of an interview with Osama's
former bodyguard in the London Arabic paper Al-Quds Al-Arabi
http://cryptome.org/alqaeda-plans.htm
\_ But the problem is that Osama is not Christian.
\_ For the tinfoil hat crowd, ponder this: Bush assassinates Kerry
before the election and pins the blame on bin Laden.
\_ Nonono ... that would be Cheney orchestrating the plot.
Bush wouldn't have a clue. |
| 2004/8/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:32790 Activity:very high |
8/9 Wow, the FBI really does need reforming. If this is all true,
they should just tear the whole thing down and start over
from scratch:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/25/60minutes/main526954.shtml
\_Reminds me of the story where Israeli translators fluent in
Arabic were shunned because they were Jewish, and it
wouldn't look right.
\_ Must be Clinton-appointed people, or at least inspired by him.
\_ YES! THE CLENIS! THE CLENIS MUST HAVE BEEN INVOLVED! OH HOW
I HATE THAT MANLY THROBBING CLENIS. --Typical Freeper
\_ Well, the FBI said she was fired because of her disruptive behavior.
While I have no way to know who is lying (maybe both?), there are
those paranoid people who run around doing no work but making
accusations until they are fired and then make an even bigger fuss. |
| 2004/8/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Military] UID:32758 Activity:insanely high |
8/7 Anyone know this guy?
http://csua.org/u/8i4
\_ Hopefully no one will know this loser.
\_Loser or not, I think it's rather instructive on how
terrorism works. Terrorism would've never worked before
there was a popular press and technology has made
terrorism that much more effective as a propoganda tool.
Now anybody with a webcam can become a jihadist.
\_ it worked in spain quite recently.
\_ terrorism never worked? Terrorism has been around
for centries. check out the word "assassin" and find out
where is that word from.
\_ Using terror as a weapon works quite well. Genghis Khan and
his ilk noticed this a long time ago. Back in the old days
a lot of battle armor designs were meant to intimidate the
opponents. The Picts fought naked as an intimidation
measure, the Mongols made piles of human heads, etc. etc.
Modern 'terrorism' is a nasty and irrationally collectivist
version of the old warriorship idea that attacking the mind
is more effective than attacking the body. ('Irrationally
collectivist' because modern terrorists attack societies as
a whole, and that is counterproductive in settings other than
total war). -- ilyas
\_ it worked in spain quite recently.
\- well ignorning the first law of internet warfare,
"never get into an argument with someone in grad
school; they have more free time than you" ...
i dont see the relevance of most of your historical
examples. terrorism isnt just using psychological
intimidation techniques. i'd suggest it is a
combination of attacking civilian morale and
avoiding direct military confrontation. when the
roman army in 146 bc "salted the earth" at carthage
and sold off much of the population of corinth into
slavery, these flowed from direct military conflicts.
when a group avoid *direct* military conflict but
engages in indirect fighting, that is better
described as guerilla warfare than terrorism.
spain bombing: terrorism, clearly. i dont think
it's productive to call the viking raiders or
g. khan terrorists. they were more looters
and thugs. if an IRA "terrorist" assassinated a
british military person, that is probably guerilla
warfare. if he put a bomb in the london underground,
that is terrorism. if he shoots a bar owner in
belfast for serving british troops, that's murder.
--psb
\_ My thesis is 'terrorism is an old phenomenon.' It
still holds if we take your definition. It's as
old as fighting empires, where direct military
confrontation is infeasible. -- ilyas
confrontation is infeasible. Also, I think there
is a definite connection between 'terrorism' and
'looters and thugs.' Also, I am having a hard time
'looters and thugs.' Also, I am having a hard time
seeing the line you see between guerilla warfare
and terrorism, especially if the former targets
civilians (and it often does). Is terrorism just
'guerilla warfare with bombs?' -- ilyas
\- no, it has to do with target selection.
shoot/snipe and run [vietcong, american
revolutionaries etc] is guerella tactics
when aiming at military-related targets.
random/civilian targetting for a political
goal is closer to terrorism. i suppose there
has to be some element or organization and
some threashold goal ... i wouldnt call the
unabomber or the washington sniper pair
terrorists. maybe the weather underground,
but they were pretty stupid and incompetent.
\_ The Czars and their cossacks were very capable terrorists.
\_ As an aside, I heard a great story about one of Genghis Khan's
battle tactics. His army surrounded a city and said that if
the citizens delivered 10,000 cats to the army along with some
gold and other treasure, they would move on and not attack. The
citizens complied. Genghis Khan then had his army tie rags to
the tails of the cats, light them on fire and release the cats.
The cats fled back to their homes in the city and the entire
city started to burn. In the ensuing chaos, Khan's army easily
conquered the city.
\- there are lots of stories like this. see e.g.
~psb/MOTD/SultanTughlak. However if you think this
or the tzarist repression is terrorism, you misuse/
misunderstand the word. tyranny != terrorism. --psb
\_ KAAAAAAAAAAHN!!!
\_ Now that's psych-warfare. |
| 2004/8/4 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32686 Activity:nil |
8/4 I've seen it claimed on the motd that Sandy Berger has been
cleared and that Bush has military documents he can release but
hasn't. I've asked for links substantiating both these claims,
but have not receieved a single response. Not even a blog link.
Can I conclude that these are silly lies now?
\_ Christ, just quit bitching and google.
http://members.aol.com/forvets/htomr.htm
\_ Oooookay... so I knew this. But I thought the claim was
that Bush's records of 72-73 were MISSING....
\_ I believe the beef that AP has with the Bush records is that
he didn't grant them the rights to the records, he requested
his own copy and then forwarded them with the wax stamp
unsealed, so to speak.
\_ I do not think Bush has released all possible military records
\_ Dewd, there are a lot of unverified claims on soda, and some
posts that debunk them and tell you exactly why. Berger has been
cleared of obstructing the 9/11 commission by 9/11 commission
representatives; the Archives people are still deciding what to do
about Berger violating Archives policy on notetaking and removing
classified photocopies.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/10235294p-11155782c.html
\_ Thank you, I wasn't able to find that link.
\_ Kerry has not released all of his military records.
\_ Yeah, so what we have is:
Bush claims he has released all relevant records. It can perhaps
never be verified that he did or did not.
Kerry has said he has released all military records, but from
press reports, reviews by superior officers were not made
available (unclear why).
\_ and medical records related to his medals. |
| 2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:32651 Activity:high 76%like:32656 |
8/3 Orange alert info pre-dates 9/11
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/03/politics/03intel.html
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=US&cat=Terrorism
officials "reported that they had not yet found concrete evidence that
a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under
way."
\_ Okay. What should we conclude from that?
\_ That the orange alert is politically timed?
\_ That the timing is, again, dubious. Old information trotted
out after a major event for the other side.
\_ It's not old information. The files were updated *this* year.
Furthermore, 9/11 was planned for years. So it's NEW
information to us, and the fact that some was originally
planned years ago doesn't simply mean that it might be
outdated, but that it might be close to fruition.
\_ Be nice to the op. I don't think he's very good at
reading comprehension.
\_ No such thing as facts, only an interpretation of the
facts, huh? Its pretty funny to watch the freepers try
to defend the credibility of Tom Ridge as it approaches
singularity.
\_ What are you talking about? The NYT article
makes it pretty clear what was going on. Just
because the info is a few years old, doesn't
mean it's out-of-date.
\_ No, but it's not news. The announcement is for
areas that are already in an elevated state of
alert. This was yet another "we're still doing
stuff" announcement. Also, by virtue of predating
9/11, any surveillence from then would be more
or less useless because we've changed and improved
the security measures... right?
\_ Hilarious. Every major news outlet is carrying this story in one
form or another...except for Fox News. Their headline is "lady
liberty reopens to public." The story doesn't seem to appear
anywhere on their site.
\_ So there really *is* a news bias?
\_ Informed. Powerful. Huge Penis.
\_ could someone please explain the HUGE, TAX FREE PENIS thing?
what is that a reference to?
\_ In re: Ann Coulter it's a reference to the fact that some
motder(s?) like her and the only plausible reason for
liking a woman who admires Joe McCarthy is that they want
to have sex with a reasonably hot arch-conservative, so
the retort is "Oh! Your penis is so BIG and TAX FREE!".
\_ So you're saying this originated on the motd?
\_ Nice straw man. |
| 2004/8/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32636 Activity:nil |
8/2 I almost misread this quote on CNN pull: "Will President Bush's
intelligence help thwart terrorist attacks?". I missed the
'reform' between intelligence and help. :)
\_ Bush = Strong Leader ; Kerry = Flip-flopper
\_ Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.
\_its what drives the Liberal media, it seems to work.
it brainwashed you twink.
\_ I think you are more brainwashed than you think.
\_ Anybody who thinks the media is liberal is out
of touch with reality. |
| 2004/7/30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32584 Activity:high |
9/11 commission report -- they don't portray the intent like this
book does. I have postponed reading it up to today.
\_ The timing of this information is very suspicious...
\_ The timing of this information is very suspicious... why on
sysadmin appreciation day?
\_ It's to distract us from our day with off topic propaganda.
Clearly this is a plot by the <insert political group directly
opposed to your agenda> to destroy Sysadmin Credibilty Around
The World For Generations To Come!
\_ Tenet has lost SO much credibility because of the "slam dunk"
claim. That statement was 90-99% bogus, based on the assessments
at the time by the CIA
\_ Yep. And he's the guy the President relies on for information.
Should Bush have jogged over to CIA HQ and started quizzing
individual intel analysts?
\_ "When McLaughlin concluded, there was a look on the
president's face of, What's this? And then a brief moment of
silence. ... 'Nice try,' Bush said. 'I don't think this is
quite -- it's not something that Joe Public would understand
or would gain a lot of confidence from.'" |
| 2004/7/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32552 Activity:insanely high |
7/28 Who provides the cheapest wireless plan? (for emergencies only)
\_ How often doyou have emergencies? I ask because a coworker's wife
apparently has daily emergencies around lunch time.
\_ That's when the milkman arrives at the door.
\_ if it's truly emergency-only, any cell phone with signal, regardless
of plan, can access 911. So you dont' really need a plan at all
and its FREE!
\_ not sure about that... if I take the SIM card out of my GSM
phone, I don't think it can register on the network to make
a call (though I've never tried dialing 911)
\_ federal law requires all carriers to allow free 911
call access, so maybe a non-GSM phone would be enough?
\_ Taking the sim card out of mine still allows emergency
calls. Just for yuks, try '112' (European emergency
number) if 911 doesn't work. -John
\_ my motorola v66 manual says you can dial emergency numbers
even if the phone is locked or no SIM is inserted. I think
it will try to register after you press send. but if your
emergencies are not police emergencies, pre-paid is good.
\_ So if I have a non-GSM phone, and I cancel my plan which releases
the phone number, I can still call 911?
\_ prepaid. $50 would last you 3 months.
\_ good suggestion. Any favorite carrier?
\_ Cingular. $20/3 months = $7/month. $50 for 1 time activation.
\_ Another suggestion, AT&T Free2Go. I think it has $10/90 days
= ~$3.33 / month. |
| 2004/7/25 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:32471 Activity:nil |
7/25 Is it any surprise that Sandy Berger attempted to dowplay the Cox
report on Chinese espionage?
'Sandy Berger must go' from 1999
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1178015/posts |
| 2004/7/24 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32468 Activity:high |
7/24 I'll see you a Berger and raise you a Shelby:
Republican Senator Richard Selby target of a Justice Department
investigation into leakage of classified 9/11 phone intercepts.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126904,00.html
\_ IIRC, this started after Shelby criticized FBI for faiilure in 9/11.
\_ Not quite the same thing. Berger didn't deny the action. Shelby
does. Berger appears to have destroyed documents, etc. Hang Berger
and if Shelby did it, hang him too. |
| 2004/7/23 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32448 Activity:nil |
7/23 Woman With Possible Terror Ties Arrested
(smuggled thru our southern boarder)
Doing the jobs Americans won't do....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177157/posts
MIDDLE-EASTERN INVADERS CAUGHT CROSSING FROM MEXICO
IN COCHISE COUNTY IN PAST SIX WEEKS
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177082/posts |
| 2004/7/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32446 Activity:insanely high |
7/23 I wonder which "domestic terror" group they could be talking about?
Have the Freepers formed their own militia?
http://csua.org/u/8am (yahoo news)
\_ yes.
\_ There have been domestic terrorists practically forever. Just off
the top of my head I can name, the KKK, 1900's anarchists, the SLA
and abortion clinic bombers. Domestic terrorists are
left or right wing fringe elements who believe violent means are
justified in persuit of their goal.
\_ Don't forget ELF and the various militias in the central north.
\_ I'm sure I've forgotten a dozen groups, but I'm just saying
there's all kinds of terrorists.
\_ Has the ELF actually injured/killed anyone?
\_ a.out
\_ You think Hummers don't feel pain?
\_ Idiot. Look up "tree spiking" and why it can kill.
\_ Fatass. Look up why yermom is so fat that she
could kill somone if she sat down on them. But
she hasn't yet, so we don't call her a murderer,
just a fat ugly skanky Hummer driving hobag.
\_ When my mom spikes a tree, I'll let you know. When
your idiotic 'heroes of the environment' stop
trying to kill people and destroy property, let
us know.
\_ "There is something slightly absurd about a
scenario in which those who want to destroy
a forest can accuse those of trying to perserve
it of property damage..." -Maines
\_ I was referring to the number of autos that
were burned or spray painted, not trees
spiked. Re: "ugly skanky Hummer driving
hobag".
\_ and what about all the pedestrians
killed by drivers of monster suv's
who can't see over the dash? what
about all the asthma deaths associated
with excessive driving in urban and
suburban areas? When one persons
actions lead to the death of another
and that death is preventable, i call
that violence.
\_ Sue GM, Ford, etc. RIDE BIKE! Yeah,
whatever. Troll, troll, troll. Not
even a good troll. Only ilyas
bothered to respond.
\_ You need to become familiar with a
legal concept of 'main cause.'
-- ilyas
\_ most tree spikers (YES I KNOW NOT 100 PERCENT BUT FUCKING
CLOSE) make the tree with paint to let everyone know
they spiked it.
\_ so only some loggers are likely to get injured or die and
those who don't check for paint?
\_ I would say a small number of loggers have a slight
chance of being injured if they are dumb enough not
to LOOK AT THE DAMN TREE THEY'RE CUTTING.
\_ Does that include the ones where they glued bark
over the hole, or painted the nail so it wouldn't
shine and is harder to see? How about they file
some lawsuits or vote or do something within the
legal bounds of society instead of forcing their
views on others through violence?
\_ Injured, yes. Dead? Not that I know of but only due to
luck. Their stunts could easily have killed someone.
\_ FWIW, Earth First! disavowed tree spiking and never took
responsibility for any of it officially. Their MO was
more blocking logging operations and camping out in
trees. That's not to say their extremist rhetoric
couldn't have inspired others to do such things.
\_ EF != ELF. Anyway, they're all shadowy .orgs with
no real official structure anyway. Killing people
is killing people and *someone* was spiking trees,
whichever terrorist .org they belonged to.
\_ Tree spiking has not hurt or killed anyone,
in spite of logging company propaganda. And I
agree with you, killing people is killing people,
but tree spiking never killed anyone. Blaming
EF for tree spiking is almost as dumb as blaming
Rush Limbaugh for the Oklahoma City bombing.
\_ Well, it hurt this guy:
http://www.peterherrick.com/content/treespiking5.htm
\_ That doesn't count! He's white!
\_ Okay, I take it back. One minor injury.
\_ You're an asshole: "This happened in
California in 1987, where the operator's
jaw was broken and several teeth were
knocked out".
\_ Yawn. Minor injury.
\_ *laugh* Now, I _know_ you're a
troll. Sub thread is now dead.
\_ So are all these guys seriously trying to claim that ELF is
the terrorist org that the FBI says is planning to kill journalists
at the Democratic convention? Somehow, I kind of doubt it...
\_ Earth Liberation Front. I have no idea which ELF you're talking
about and if the FBI says they're planning to kill anyone.
\_ You really think it is the Earth Liberation Front that is
going to go after the Democratic convention eh? You are
battier that I had even thought, I and I thought you were
pretty batty. Did you come up with that one on your own,
or do you have some kind of source for it?
\_ 1) the person you're replying to (me) didn't state anything
about ELF attacking the DNC convention except to say I
hadn't heard anything about what the other poster claimed
about the FBI. 2) learn to read. 3) given #1, there is
no need for #3. See #2. |
| 2004/7/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32429 Activity:nil |
7/22 http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html \_ The butler did it. |
| 2004/7/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:32393 Activity:very high |
7/20 Berger investigated for taking classified reports
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040719-112728-6891r.htm
"...he had taken from classified anti-terror documents he
reviewed at the National Archives by sticking them
in his jacket and pants."
This guy was Clinton's and Kerry's NSA (equivalent to Rice)
\_ Again, even though you erased it, what's really interesting about
all of this is why this is suddenly "news" when the investigation
has been going on since last December.
\_ how is the timing relevant in any way? This guy stole and
lost documents from the National Archives and you are
worried about the timing. Congress had known about Abu
Ghraib for half a year before it came out, and???
\_ And you screamed bloody murder about it all being leaked
out in time to be an election-year issue. If that was
politicking, then so the hell is this.
\_ I don't know who 'you' refers to. I though the whole
thing was overblown, nothing more than hazing of
terrorists. Again, when is a good time to release
a former NSA stole and lost documents while the
9/11 commission was ongoing? I don't think you have
an answer. I can't believe you have the
audacity to worry about the 'timing'.
\_ Pshaw all around. The NSA scandal and the Abu Graib
scandal should have been revealed at the same time:
as soon as they were discovered. How do you like my
answer now?
\_ Abu Graib was revealed when it was discovered. I
remember seeing it mentioned months before the
pictures came out. It was only the pictures that
suddenly put it on the front page.
\_ You simply reinforce my opinion that to you
what matters is style over substance. You could
care less that someone violated the law and
effectively interfered with a Congressional
investigation. In summary, you are unethical and
choose to do defend like individuals.
\_ Is that the impression you got? Let me disabuse
you of it: If he violated the law and interefered
with said investigation beyond a reasonable doubt,
I not only care, I will be happy to see him
punished. Now pay attention here, because this is
where it gets tricky: at the same time that I
agree he should be punished, I _also_ understand
that the timing of this release of information is
of particular use to the Repubs in their efforts
to discredit the Kerry campaign. See that? Two
beliefs, one pro-punishment and the other
rather cynical, held at exactly the same time in
my brain. You should try it some time. It's a
kick. |
| 2004/7/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32387 Activity:very high |
7/20 Are Filipinos embarassed over your country being cowards?
\_ they should be. They should of stand tall and so *NO* to
American at first place.
\_ Chicom troll! U Rock! -Chicom Troll #1 fan
\_ Just want to inform you guys that USA is bullying
just about everyone to contribute troops in Iraq hence
caused a lot of resentment toward USA. An interesting
case is the Korean one. I was talking to a Korea national
(not Korean-American), he told me that Koreans are generally
bitter toward USA for the beheading of one of the translator,
eventhough it is Iraqi who was doing the killing, resentment
toward USA is far exceed resentment toward Iraq
\_ the filipino president just barely won her election and
there were lots of charges of voter fraud, she decided
having the US mad at her was less important than no political
support at home, AT ALL, at this time.
\_ They were scheduled to withdraw in August. Troops home 10 days
early, 1 truck driver alive. Definite cowardice.
\_ Have you stopped beating your wife? And why do you hate America?
\_ http://csua.org/u/89q (Filipino gets hammered, then hammers wife)
\_ I am troubled by the fact that they gave into terrorists but I
fail to see how not withdrawing is an act of bravery. It's
not like an soldiers or government officials would have had their
heads cut off. They could have just decided to let the guy
get fucked to save face. Would that be considered brave?
\_ The thing about Filipines is that it has like a million OFW
(overseas filipino workers) working in muslim countries. It has
take their interest and safety into consideration.
\_ Well in the long run they have just painted a huge target on
those poor OFW's. Now any small-time kidnapper with a beef
against the Phillipines just has to grab a filipino and
threaten to behead them and they'll have the phillipine Gov't
at their knees. Way to reward the terrorists, guys.
\_ Umm... don't you think you might be exagerating a little?
All they got was the withdrawal of a mere 50 troops just 10
days ahead of schedule. I'd hardly call that
'at their knees'.
\_ but maybe this Iraq business isn't where they should make
a stand, and unnecessarily threaten the lives of the OFWs.
Do the Islamic terrorists just kidnap people from random
countries and make random demands on those countries?
\_ They're planning on kidnapping some Finns so they can
demand more cell phones.
\_ Do Filipinos have an inferiority complex?
\_ As Paolo points out, their country is named after
a Spanish king. What do you think? -- ilyas
\_ oh yea, whatever. at least they don't change
their name to barnstone just to cover up
their heritage.
\_ at first, it seems like randomn. But now the pattern is
quite clear: kidnapping the not-so-willing allies, and
put the final straw which break the camel.
\_ Forget OFWs, I bet the Philippines are more worried about the
Muslims in their own country (the embattled southern islands have
lots of Muslim extremists, and reportedly a few of Osama's
illegitimate children).
\_ Last time I check, we dumped over 10 billions in 10 years helping
these "freedom fighters" to do the fighting in Afghanstan. Now,
please tell me who is rewarding the terrorist again?
\_ You have been Trolled. -OP |
| 2004/7/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32330 Activity:nil |
7/16 blowkay [bloh'-kay] adj. of an attitude, typically exhibited by the
electorate, that elected officials who have sexual relations outside
of marriage while in office are less deserving of impeachment than
officials whose decisions lead to the loss of human life. Folks say
the new senator from Rhode Island is a skirt chaser, but as long as
he doesn't send thousands of Americans off to die in a war on false
pretenses, he's blowkay with me.
\_ fuck that. I don't think it's too much to ask to have leaders
who don't screw around with interns or lie to american people,
or give government contracts to their buddies without bids
or make deals with terrorists to fund secret wars to support
dictators in latin america or run a secret gang of thugs from
the whitehouse to perpetrate illegal "dirty tricks" on opponents
or let a unwinnable war drag on forever while lying about it
to the american people...goddamn all of them all to hell.
\_ Moron, without corruption there would be no government.
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
The founding fathers of this country weren't stupid, and they
knew this, which is why our government is designed to be
a balancing act. You can never eliminate graft or nepotism,
it's the grease that keeps government working. You can't
codify human behavior into simple law. The law is simply
a framework which we work from. |
| 2004/7/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32243 Activity:high |
7/12 My nightmare seems closer to reality now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/12/politics/campaign/12vote.html
("Federal officials are looking into what legal authority if any they
would have to postpone the November presidential election in the
event of a terrorist strike, a Department of Homeland Security
official said Sunday.")
\_ What is your nightmare? An orderly response to a terrorist attack?
Note that the NYC mayoral primary was delayed when the attacks hit
on 9/11 (day of the election). Considering that a hit would most
likely be on an urban center (which tend to vote liberal) do you
think this is a bad thing?
\_ mayoral primary. big deal.
\_ A primary is a quite different. For one the dates of the
election are not mandated in the constitution. For another they
don't have quite the same importance. Remember Guilliani also
tried to get a few more months of his term to "deal with the
situation" in New York and that made a lot of New Yorkers who
were previously happy with Gulliani quite grumpy. He didn't
get those extra months BTW.
\_ Have the freepers come to motd? Usually we have more intelligent
conservatives posting.
\_ Do you have a response to the content or are you just another
mindless ad hominem drone?
\_ Your last sentence ("Considering that ...") speaks for
itself. What are you trying to say in this sentence?
\_ I think what the poster was referring to is the president might
create a terrorist event to reschedule the election more to his
liking.
\_ Yeah, but I tend to ignore tinfoil hat nutjobs. He probably
thinks Bush orchestrated 9/11.
\_ Bush didn't orchestrate 9/11, but he sure took advantage
of it in order to topple Hussein, and take away our civil
liberties with the un-patriotic act. If there is a
terrorist attack *and* Bush has the numbers to lose, don't
bother even questioning for a split-second that Bush won't
delay the election until he can spin-ster his way to
victory.
\_ That bastard! How dare he topple Hussein! -- ilyas
\_ Teresa Nielsen Hayden: "I deeply resent the way this admin-
istration makes me feel like a nutbar conspiracy theorist."
I don't think W [w|c]ould orchestrate a terrorist attack.
That said, I am deathly afraid of any postponement of the
election. Come up with a better plan, you morons. -op |
| 2004/7/12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32235 Activity:nil |
7/12 Eyeballing the White House
http://cryptome.org/whrez/whrez-eyeball.htm -John
\_ What are you planning, terrorist?! |
| 2004/7/12 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32227 Activity:moderate |
7/11 LIVE IN FEAR PESANTS!
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2660471
\_ Do you mean 'peasants'?
\_ Ok so you won't mind if we profile Muslims and kick out all of
the illegals? Which is it?
\_ Your reply makes no sense to me, but I'm sure it's exactly what
the TSA folks think too.
\_ The fact that they talked to him seemed reasonable, but I think
any sane police agency would have quickly said, "ok, no big
deal" pretty damn fast. Although I think the person who
reported him is a moron, I do understand the "we have to
follow up" reponse. I don't understand the "we have to look
tough and try to scare him" response.
\_ I don't think your version would make a very good newspaper
story.
\_ It's just the way cops are. You never met a cop before? This
idiot writes like he's never met one either. But really, the
above is correct. The guy had a deadline for X column inches
so he wrote some crap. Since nothing happened and you can't
check his story, who says it even happened at all? The URL
and the original 'story' and I do mean 'story' are trolls.
\_ He's not an idiot; this is unacceptable behavior by stupid
and officious thugs in uniform. I was approached by a
little toad bitch in St. Louis (after they'd lost my
luggage) who asked me if I were visiting on business or
pleasure--I replied "pleasure", at which point she started
snapping at me "then why are you wearing business
clothes?!?" (Khakis and a shirt.) These are the menial
and uneducated, placed in uniform with a mandate to
intimidate. See comment about paying what you get for
in the camera discussion below. -John
\_ America: land of the free, home of the brave. |
| 2004/7/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32190 Activity:high |
7/8 Joseph Stalin and Osama Bin Laden more popular than Bush!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040707/od_nm/bush_dc_1
\_ Sounds like a stupidity test.
\_ Probably because everyone that Stalin and Bin Laden didn't like got
killed, whereas Bush isn't rounding up and executing leftists by
the millions. Maybe he should be.
\_ You are saying that you love both Stalin and Bin Laden?
\_ In Soviet Russia, Party hates YOU!
\_ I'm saying you should take a reading comprehension class.
\_ How will this make you a clear and informative poster? |
| 2004/7/7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:31209 Activity:insanely high |
7/7 Concerned senior citizen speaks out in support of Kerry:
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/04/Jul/kerry.html
\_ Dear Mr. Bush, Since the start of your presidency, membership in
our club has grown by leaps and bounds; donations have quadrupled,
and media coverage has been daily and constant. Keep up the good
work. Yours, Osama bin Laden
\_ Yeah, and when they stated as early as '93 they were out to
get Americans, what did Clinton do?
\_ he tried to kill him. Mind you that at the same time, you
were busy trying to impeach Clinton, completely ignoring
all threats imposed by Al Qaeda.
\_ Laaaaaame.... try harder.
\_ no lamer than the original. -tom
\_ The original was actually quite amusing. The followup
just tried too hard and doesn't ring as true.
\_ I'd like to think you're joking, but I'm afraid I'd be
terribly mistaken.
\_ Apparently you have no sense of timing. I bet you find
knock-knock jokes still funny...
\_ but true.
\_ Uhm, no...
\_ It was cute the first time but now it's old as dirt and
best forgotten. Don't beat a dead horse.
\_ Kerry has the support of foriegn leaders!
\_ And Al Gore invented the Internet, and Ketchup is a vegetable,
and you REALLY need some new material.
\_ Bush has the support of Al Queda!
\_ Anyone that does not agree with me is a terrorist and
hates America!
\_ I know you're being sarcastic but I hope you don't
believe anyone actually ever said that for real.
\_ Anyone on the motd, the Bush administration, or
the right-wing press? Take your pick. I bet I
can find examples from all three. Poster below
just found one from Bush himself.
\_ "Either you are with us, or you are with the
terrorists." -GWB |
| 2004/7/6 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:31182 Activity:very high |
7/6 Old news, but interesting
Sources: Cheney curses senator over Halliburton criticism
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/24/cheney.leahy
\_ This was already discussed on the motd and there's nothing new.
Perhaps you should read the motd archives.
\_ What was the conclusion from sodans?
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=31000
\_ Why the hell do we need some UCLA guy archiving the
Berkeley csua motd??? :)
\_ It's better than some Stanford guy, hehe...
\_ Looks like the curse word was debated for exactly
one entry before the whole thing turned into an off
topic pissing match about Al Qaida and Iraq. So it
would still seem worthy of discussion.
\_ Cursing is only bad when Democrats do it.
\_ Ah, go fuck yourself. -a Demo
\_ Best take on the whole thing was Jon Stewart's: "This shows that
Cheney is coming out in support of gay marriage." |
| 2004/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31169 Activity:insanely high |
5/7 Why does anyone take Moore seriously? His movies are fiction,
not documentaties. First columbine now 911.
Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911
http://davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
\_ written by a democrat who voted for nader.
\_ holy shit! he voted his concious instead of his party! traitor!
kill him! burn the witch! he violated group think! he has
independent thought! destroy the infection!
\_ "independent thought" != intelligence.
\_ its relevant bc its written by a dem, not hannity or foxnews.
\_ A Dem who writes for the National Review. NRO has spent
the last six months openly campaigning for Bush and
slamming Kerry, so they are hardly an objective source.
\_ even before seeing 911, I do not see how any reasonable,
compassionate person could vote for gwbush again.
\_ compassionate? meaning what? you take my money and give it
to yourself and others who haven't earned it through the
power of the federal and state government? get a job and
you won't need compassion.
\_ no, i don't sit around thinking of ways to steal your
money and give it to welfare queens. I am an equal
opportunity bush despiser. there's lots of reasons
to not vote for george bush, i could easily make
a list of several hundred good ones not involving
taxes.
\_ It is a common fallacy of the politically maladroit
to assume that compassion has anything to with
politics. It does not. Politics is about ambition,
and ambition plays to what is expedient and necessary.
How is your Boston Brahmin any more or less despicable
than the Texan? You need wake up and smell the coffee.
Believing that compassion rules human behavior is
something that wisdom and common sense should have easily
discredited.
\_ And yet he sold his platform in 2000 on "compassionate
conservatism". We all knew the term was bullshit, and
yet it sold.
\_ No, it didn't. People voted against Gore because
he did poorly in the debates and is a crackpot.
Very few voted 'for' Bush in 2000. Gore's own
home state wouldn't even vote for him.
\_ Funny, I seem to remember Gore got over 50
percent of the vote...
\_ Funny, you seem to remember wrong. 48.38%.
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm
\_ Perhaps. But like any good game, politics requires
either compromise or utter domination. For a short
while there, the Repubs had the latter: the House,
the Senate, the Presidency, the Bench, and the
support of the People. Recently, they seem to have
lost the latter two and confused the former two.
This requires compromise, and the Texan (and his
Cabinet) are notorious for being poor compromisers.
The Boston Brahmin is famed for being able to come
to reasonable compromises that diminish neither side.
\_ Famed? I call bullshit. I've *never* heard
anyone claim the most liberal voting Senator is
famed for any such thing.
\_ HE'S A FLIP FLOPPING LIBERAL, I TELL YOU!
(For the clue impaired, "flip flop" is right
wing speak for compromise.)
\_ Incidentally, whatever else may be true,
'flip-flopping' is perhaps the most damaging
smear against Democrats in the Republican
arsenal, in terms of real effects. -- ilyas
\_ What happened to 'waffling'?
\_ you mean it's not a piece of electronics!?
\_ Because the dems are out of power and they need someone like
Moore. The Reps used to use Limbaugh when they were out of power.
The opposition party always needs a wacky muckracking spokesman
to rally the troops. Moor's just the latest in a long line.
\_ Yes Rush is a firebrand but he's never this deceitful.
\_ Bull. Rush spews false stats, misquotes, and is almost
psychotically hypocritical.
\_ Uh? Rush doesn't tend to give any stats at all, when he
does he's quoting someone else, and his quotes are all
checkable online. Where is he a hypocrite? He was never
an anti-drug crusader so turning out to be a drug addict
doesn't make him a hypocrite. Do you know *anything* about
the man or are you just spewing the DNC talking points? I
wonder if you've even listened to his show for more than
5 minutes, if ever.
\_ http://www.fair.org/extra/0311/limbaugh-drugs.html
You are wrong, again. As usual.
\_ More Limbaugh Lies:
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html
\_ As opposed to CNN, NYTimes, ABC, etc. which is just 100% fact. Yup.
\_ By the kind of argument employed in that url, everyday there
are 10 imes more "deceits" in any of the above than F911.
\_ I've been saying that about the media for years on the motd
but people always call me a crackpot for saying the main-
stream media is inaccurate, biased, or in any way
unreliable. Are you a crackpot, too?
\_ If that means considering mainstream media inaccurate
rather than accusing them of bias along particular
directions, yes.
\_ well, i think you're both off base. if "news" means
15 minutes of ads, 10 minutes of sports, 10 minutes of
weather, 10 minutes of "puppy saved in local lake"
and five minutes of sound bites with pretty pictures
about what's actually going on in the world, who gives
a shit if it's biased or wrong? that's just not the
point. the point is that no responsible journalist
is *ever* going to be able to reduce the news to a
five minute cartoon, and as long as that's all people
will take for their news, we have a serious problem.
I blame the morons who don't bother to *read*, not
the tv news networks that respond accurately to
the demand of the news consumer.
\_ You'd feel differently if it was *your* puppy.
\_ not likely. in my experience, they'd get the
name of the puppy wrong, then say the police
rescued it when it was really the fire department,
and incorrectly name the lake from which it
was rescued.
\_ When your sources include Slate articles by Chris Hitchens, you
really must be scraping the barrel.
\- are you in fact the only person in the world
who refers to Christopher Hitchens as "Chris"?
\_ No, I'm in good company:
http://csua.org/u/81y
However, I promise not to call you "Par."
\_ Either the material is true or it is not. If you have to
attack the source instead of the truthfulness of the material
presented, you're not even in the barrel anymore.
\_ Hitchen's article is a fact-free zone - its just a bloviating
screed.
\_ Maybe. You expected anyone to actually read the URL before
commenting?
\_ So you're saying that the clip in the movie at Camp David
does *not* show Bush sitting next to Tony Blair?
\_ 50 of these "deceits" are not even lies, by any stretch of the
imagination. It is a "deceit" to show that Bush sat and read in
a classroom for nine minutes after being informed of the 9/11
attacks? The author calls it a deceit because Moore offers no
attacks? The author calls it a "lie" because Moore offers no
other suggestion as to what Bush should have been doing....
Whaaaat? Most of the rest are the same. He calls Moore a
"liar" for not presenting both sides of controversial
topics. This is a good example of "bias" but a terrible
example of a "lie." This guy is a big hypocrite anyway,
if you read any of his columns, he does not bother to
present both sides of any views. |
| 2004/7/2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:31129 Activity:very high |
7/2 How will The Republicans respond to this?
http://csua.org/u/80w (Yahoo News)
\_ their standard response: "Get over it!" - pst
\_ this coming from someone who falls at the feet of a group
named "moveon.org".
\_ An amusing stunt to be sure. You might want a more descriptive
line like: "Some Democratic Congresspeople request UN observe US
election." There's some loon who censors any link without what
he considers to be an adequate description (presumably so he doesn't
have to deal with the shock and awe of reading anything he might
disagree with).
\_ Idiot. So it a) doesn't waste his time and b) avoids work
unsafe links. Moron, we aren't all surfing in our underwear
at home with the motd in one window, pr0n in another and our
dick in our hand.
\_ The Republicans will not respond to it because the UN has no real
jurisdiction here. I mean, what are you going to do if the UN
Monitoring Committee finds that the elections are a fraud? Invade
the US? The UN is merely a sock puppet for the U.S. anyway, and
has no real power.
\_ The UN exists so the 3rd world dictators can have a place to
safely, and powerlessly, mouth off and feel important so they
don't something stupid and actively harmful. The UN doesn't
have jurisdiction *anywhere* on the planet.
\_ This is as stupid as standing on the porch of your
trailerhouse with your shotgun in hand, declaring
"them gubmint regulators ain't got no authority here"
but you probably do that, too. |
| 2004/7/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31124 Activity:very high |
7/2 Why isn't Jackass:The Movie considered a documentary? All this talk
of F/911 being the first documentary to debut at #1 and being the
highest grossing feature length documentary.
\_ 1 : being or consisting of documents : contained or certified in
writing <documentary evidence>
writing
2 : of, relating to, or employing documentation in literature or art
broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE <a documentary film of the war>
;
broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE
2 : of, relating to, or employing documentation in literature or
art; broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE
\_ Jackass sounds like a documentary to me then!
\_ F911 doesn't/
\_ By that logic, every movie is a documentary, since it documents
what the actors are doing.
\_ I'm assuming you haven't seen Jackass.
\_ If you can equate Jackass with F9/11, can I equate Hannity
and Rush with Bozo the Clown?
\_ Bad dodge! Btw, IMDB has Jackass down as a documentary
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322802
\_ A bunch of retards on the Intarweb say it, it must be so!
\_ A bunch of retards on the Intarweb say it, it must be
so!
\_ and Yahoo
http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jackass.html
\_ You're still being deliberately obtuse by
equating F9/11 with Jackass. No one mistakes
"Jackass" for a documentary, although apparently
that was the category a couple of websites decided
to stuff it into for lack of a better term.
F9/11 is a documentary about current events, like
it or not. It is based primarily on news footage
of real events. Jackass is completely staged.
Get real.
\_ I'm assuming you haven't seen F/911 either...
\_ Based is an interesting word in this case.
If only it was based on and presented facts,
then it would be a documentary.
\_ I haven't seen F911 yet, but I want to see it in a reasonably
conservative area. What's the most conservative place in the SFBA?
\_ I recommend Castro Valley. I dated a girl from there... they have
a rodeo and lots of Bush Lovers there.
\_ Why? Any particular reason? Are you scared some volvo-driving
latte-sipping New York Times-reading scary liburul is going to
solicit you for gay butt love?
\_ I don't drink latte -straight BMW-driving liberal.
\_ But you're cool with the gay butt love?
\_ No, but if you're looking I recommend Castro St.
\_ No. I'm a left-liberal and want to see what the other half
thinks of it, rather than going to see it with a bunch of
people going whoop-whoop.
\_ Most conservatives won't go and see this "movie". We
have better things to do with our $9 than waste time
watching some twit's lame over-hyped ramblings.
\_ And you know that this movie is some "twit's
lame over-hyped ramblings" because you saw the
movie or because you listened to some twit's
lame over-hyped ramblings about how you shouldn't
see this movie?
\_ I know things like Richard Perle saying that he
told MM that what MM put in his movie about RP's
stuff simply wasn't true and MM had months to fix
it before release and wouldn't even respond. For
example, RP says he is the one who gave the OK for
the bin Laden family to leave the US; it never went
higher than him personally yet MM blames Bush for
it as if it was a Bush/bin Laden oil conspiracy. MM
is a proven liar and a scumbag and won't see my
money. Thanks for asking.
\_ I don't listen to the radio. I saw a summary
of the movie in a newspaper (think it was the
WSJ). The newshour had some stuff about it
as well. Seemed to me like yaOverHypedFlick.
Anyway, movies aren't really my thing. The
last movie I saw was ST:Nemsis. The next
movie I'll see might be Bourne Supremacy.
\_ Most of this "hype" is being generated by
people calling it some "twit's lame over-hyped
ramblings". I'm sure Michael Moore couldn't
be happier with all the free publicity
conservatives are giving him.
\_ When someone tells the Big Lie in public and
worse, gets money and accolades for it, it is
important to say something. Otherwise people
will blindly accept it as fact instead of as
"that controversial movie by that guy".
\_ Ahh, so you just have extremely poor taste.
Likely you don't bother to vote anyway, so its
moot.
\_ Can't argue about the poor taste
in movies part. I'll watch almost
anything with the words Star Trek
in the title.
I have voted Republican in every
election since 1995. Someone has to
keep the commies from taking over
the country. :-)
\_ The Trekkies vs. the Commies??!!?!
Now THAT I would pay $10 to see.
\_ Winner takes on the Moonies
in a steel cage death match.
\_ Bust a deal, spin the wheel!
\_ Apparently you're wrong about that, but please
continue with your fantasy world, its amusing to
the rest of us.
\_ Don't you see his logic? If they see the movie, then
they aren't Real Conservatives (TM). It's like how
lots of Christian denominations disclaim other
wacky Christians by saying "Those aren't Real
Christians."
\_ no. if we see the movie, we're wasting our time
and money better spent with families, at work, or
doing something useful elsewhere.
\_ Most of my conservative friends have skipped
this movie prefering to spend their money on
real entertainment instead (spidey 2).
\_ Spiderman's a Democrat.
\_ So what? Conservatives can't like
Democrats? When was that law passed?
\_ Dude, it was a joke. I don't even
think Spiderman has a political
affiliation. Take that rod out of
your ass.
\_ So was my response.
\_ obAnnCoulterToThread
\_ "I'm having trouble paying my mortgage, but
everyone is these days in the Bush economy."
\_ Yeah with interest rates at 46 year lows, if
you can't pay your mortgage you're an idiot.
\_ I vote for Danville or Atherton.
\_ I dunno if Atherton is that conservative - just extremely
rich.
\_ Piedmont - extremely rich and pretty liberal
Atherton - extremely rich and pretty conservative
\_ All the Atherton residents I know (8 households,
both my age-group and my parents') are fairly
liberal.
\_ Are you liberal? If so, what are the odds you
would spend social time with anyone who wasn't?
\_ Maybe Stockton? Most of the Bay Area is pretty
liberal. All major Bay Area counties voted Dem
in the 2000 election.
\_ To call F911 a "documentary" is an injustice to real documentary
film producers such as Ken Burns. Its like comparing the crap on
Discovery channel to real programs such as Nova or American Exp.
\_ Ken Burns? You've gotta be kidding me. I would argue about
this with you but just the thought of Ken Burns is putting me
to sleee.....zzzzzzz
\_ Almost everything Ken Burns has produced for American
Experience has been exceptional. Entertaining, factual,
well researched.
\_ ZZZZZZzzzZZ....mph...ZZzzz
\_ Nova is a real documentary??? It can be many times more biased
than F9/11 except nobody is bothered about it.
\_ I've been watching Nova for more than 20 yrs. I haven't
ever seen a biased eps.
\_ That says more about you than Nova or F9/11.
\_ Name some biased eps in Nova. |
| 2004/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:31089 Activity:high |
6/30 Nepal buddhist put in solitary confinement for 24/hr * 3 month for
unknowingly videotaping outside a FBI building.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/30/nyregion/30deport.final.html
And recently a NYT photographer was prevented form taking picture
of Times-Warner building. Will it now get someone in trouble if he
takes pictures on the street with major landmark or government
building in the line of sight? It doesn't matter if he will
eventually get out.
\_ Four more years! Leader Bush is teh greatest!
\_ And this will change under kerry because..?
\_ I don't want Iranian nationals taking pictures of landmarks in my
country. -allenp
\_ Why not? --iranian national.
\_ While we're rattling sabers with each other. -allenp
\_ Better just ban all tourists from taking any pictures. You
never know who might be our enemy tomorrow. Thank goodness
Eastasia is our ally.
\_ w00t!
\_ Now, _that_ was a funny edit. Nice.
\_ "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, for it can always be
faked." That said, the real problem here is the unbelieveable
bueracuracy that infests our government. Look at the INS.
Just ridiculous.
\_ He was on an expired visa. That's life. Maybe he can tell
his friends to obey our immigration laws and then there's no
problem. We should have forced him to refund US taxpayers
the cost of jail and trial before release. I'm sure FBI
agents have more important concerns than this twit.
\_ Not only that. He was *working* with an expired *tourist* visa.
\_ So deport him. If you want him punished, work out a treaty
the law, and staying of a tourist visa is too.
with Nepal where they punish their citizens for violating
your immigration laws.
\_ That's what the FBI agent in charge was trying to do,
and he eventually got him out.
\_ Are you a tax lawyer? Then you've almost certainly committed
tax fraud and mail fraud. When they come to lock you up, please
remember what you've written today.
\_ Bad analogy. This guy knew he was breaking immigration
law wide open. You don't have to be an immigration
lawyer to know that working on a tourist visa is against
the law, and staying of a tourist visa is too.
\_ straw man. The penalty for working on an expired visa
is deportation, not 3 months of jail. -tom
\_ Wrong-o, Tom-o. Or at least you're responding to
the wrong question. I didn't say anything about
the punishment being just. I just pointed out
that this fellows analogy was wrong. That's not a
straw man.
\_ 'Wrong-o, Tom-o'? What the fuck is wrong with you?
\_ I get too much fun out of life.
\_ No analogy being made here. If you're not a tax lawyer,
you have almost certainly violated some minor part of the
byzantine US tax codes. If you show no sympathy for a man
who was put in solitary confinement for 3 months for
working on an expired visa, expect no sympathy when the
powers that be arrest and detain you on the pretext of
tax and mail fraud.
\_ "No analogy?" Your whole argument us based on a bad
analogy, That purposely breaking a well known low
in 2 different ways is somehow analgus to breaking
an extrememly obscure law unintentionally.
\_ Here is the correct article non PC title: Greedy Nepalese
Flaunts US Laws and Distracts FBI from Pursuing Terrorists.
He is responsible for his decision to
break our laws when we are under terrorist attack.
He is lucky to have gotten off as easy as he did.
BTW this is classic NYTimes bias.
\_ Wait, so its only an objective headline if its worded like a
news report in Starship Troopers?
\_ Motd Poster is flaming asshole and rabid propagandist!
Click here to learn more!
\_ Do you want to see more?
\_ I think, what you are saying is, he was lucky because:
(1) He was kept in solitary, he wasn't raped, he was only
strip-searched
(2) It was only three months, could have been a year+
(3) He could be in Guantanamo, he was in Brooklyn
(4) He eventually got to talk to a lawyer
(5) He had a senior FBI agent helping him
(6) He got a free ticket back to Nepal, didn't have to pay
any fines, and did manage to send $37K back to his family
(7) He broke important laws during a very sensitive time,
he should accept the consequences
\_ If rape is inevitable, sit back and enjoy it! |
| 2004/6/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:31000 Activity:very high |
6/24 omg, cheney cusses in senate. http://drudgereport.com "Cheney curses senator over Halliburton criticism... VP to Sen. Leahy: 'F**k You'... Nearly a dozen senators witnessed..." \_ Poor guy's under a lot of pressure right now, what with being caught lying and all about Iraq / Al Qaeda connections. \_ Wow, this is so done. Let's have a direct quote which turned out to be false. \_ Gee, I've got more than two hundred. Here's one, you wilfully ignorant fool: "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." --Dick Cheney \_ Clinton lost it during an interview with the BBC. He accused them of siding with the "far-right" for asking a non-softball question. At least with Republicans, it takes idiotic criticism night and day to finally see them pop, but with Democratic politicians, anything can make them burst, because of the constant coddling they get. Bush and his crew, despite being accomplished and impressively educated, get called "stupid" by all kinds of Hollywood people who dropped out of high school and college to act. \_ I forgot to tell you Clinton doesn't control the world anymore. \_ I forgot to tell you Clinton doesn't control the world anymore. \_ Fortunately, he never did. What gave you the idea that the US President controls the world? \_ Actually, only Bush gets called stupid. (Cheney is called evil, Rummy is called a warmonger, Wolfowitz is called a neocon.) \_ Have you actually seen the Clinton interview? http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/panorama/latest.ram The "losing it" bit is about 16-17 minutes into it. I don't think it is fair to say he lost it, but you should at least see it yourself before you make up your mind. (Oh and a short 1 minute edited clip does not mean you saw it.) -aspo \_ So you'll make sure in the future to not take Republican statements and events out of context? Is there a 17 minute clip leading up to Cheney "losing it" we can watch? \_ So I'll take it you haven't seen it? When there are clips available I'll watch them, when there are full transcripts I'll read them. In this case I really don't think Clinton lost it at all, but yes I have a bias. As for Cheney, I don't see why the fuck anyone cares. All it means to me is that this adminstration is feeling the heat a hell of a lot more. Yay! -aspo \_ You know, I'm getting tired of this repeated lie. The head of the 9/11 commission has said there's no significant difference between what the President and VP are saying and what the commission is saying. You want to argue this? Post your quotes and sign your name. -emarkp \_ The 9/11 commision and the President/VP are on the same page as far as "'links' between al Qaeda and Iraq". op is wrong. What the media jumped on was, "no collaborative relationship" -- the NY Times overstated this by writing "No Iraq-Al Qaeda Tie" in its headline. \_ Yes, Saddam didn't help plan 9/11. But there /are/ links between Al Queda and Saddam's Iraq. This is the same big lie that poeple tell WRT illegal immigration. When people demand that immigration laws are enforced, the demagogues say "why do you hate immigrants!". I'm tired of it. -emarkp \_ Ok, there is a link between al Qaeda and "Saddam's Iraq" but it's not really fair to say that. The cell remotely linked with al qaeda was in Kurds autonomous region, outside Saddam's control, protected by US of A. \_ The only control Saddam didn't have was air power over certain regions. Since he didn't have an air force that hardly matters. \_ There are links between Al Queda and a whole bunch of other countries. Even the United States is "linked" to Al Queda. We armed them in the 80's. Heck, about 19 of them were in the United States as they committed a horrible act three years ago. But we can't invade every damn country that's "linked" to Al Queda. \_ You've stretched reality beyond the breaking point. If this was a class paper (outside the Sociology department), you'd get an "F" for that line of reasoning. \_ [ delete my post and I get to delete yours ] \_ Logical reasoning is so tiresome. \_ Relevance? Saddam was courting them /recently/. Also, the links were more substantial than the mere presence of Al Qaeda agents in Iraq. And sign your posts. -emarkp \_ "courting them": gotta back this up, d00d. \_ Here's a link for you: http://tinyurl.com/2q6x5 (upi.com) \_ You're several days late; the CIA believes those were two different people. -tom \_ That's it? One dude in a low-level militia is your collaborative link between Iraq and Al Queda? Even Pakistan has high level nuclear scientists doing more collaborative work with them. \_ There are more countries have bigger ties with Al Queda. Why attack Iraq? \_ Al Qaeda isn't the only terrorist organisation. \_ That link does not show "courting", fool. \_ Hmm, Saddam gave Atta(?) a visa and trained him as a pilot? \_ Al Qaeda wanted Iraq as a safe haven and for WMD development, and Saddam never responded. This is the no "collaborative relationship" result. \_ We attacked Iraq because it refused to collaborate with terrorists. |
| 2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30964 Activity:very high |
6/23 Read the interrogation memos yourself:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62516-2004Jun22.html
Start with Feb. 1, 2002 (John Ashcroft's letter), it's short.
Then go to Feb. 7, 2002 (Bush's memo).
Now, my question: Why isn't anyone talking about the "UN Convention
Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or
Punishment", which I believe should apply to everyone, al Qaeda
included?
Anyway, those two are really short reads, and it's interesting to
see how the AP mischaracterizes some parts.
\_ Another point is the Geneva Convention covers warfare between nation
states, the Bush administration decided the taliban and
al-queda are not valid nation states, so the geneva
convention does not apply to such prisoners. I don't
agree at all but that's their reasoning.
\_ Yeah, to put it succinctly, if you read the two memos I
highlighted --
Ashcroft said: Afghanistan is a failed state! Therefore,
GC does not apply to Taliban.
Bush said: I accept what Ashcroft said (and if he's wrong,
he takes all the blame). But, I still say the
Taliban should be covered by GC, but I reserve
the right to remove GC coverage later.
\_ Conversely, it's therefore okay for non-nation states to torture
others since they are not signatories of the Geneva Convention.
\_ It's not quite conversely. Let's say al Qaeda chops off
heads in Iraq. Then they could be prosecuted by the Iraqi
government for murder, or extradited to the U.S. The
difference is, that if the U.S. tortures al Qaeda people
in Guantanamo, no one cares. If the U.S. abuses an
al Qaeda suspect who turns out to be innocent and people
complain about it, then you have problems.
\_ If the US doesn't torture a guy who had information that
would have lead to saving thousands more American lives,
you'd be the first to bitch about it and blame Bush.
\_ Okay, I'm answering my own question:
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/cat/treaties/convention-reserv.htm
See United States of America. On signing, the USA made an
exception for itself. They took out "degrading". Haha, I can't
believe it was that straightforward. Hahahahaha ... it's totally
legal for U.S. forces to treat those not covered by GC in a
degrading way. This is what Bush means by never condoning torture
or anything illegal, which is "true".
Also, see this for the legal aspects behind torture at Guantanamo:
http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000865.php
Bottom line: It's *all* legal!
(if they wanted to use torture there)
\_ Well, the beating to death stuff is still illegal.
\_ According to what you've posted, making prisoners stand naked
would be acceptable. Sexual assault, violence, and murder,
however, would still be considered inhumane and would therefore
constitute violations of the conventions. In other words, Pfc
England would be within the good zone if she just pointed, but
would be in the bad zone if she touched.
\_ Sexual assault, violence, and murder would be legal for
an al Qaeda member at Guantanamo. Iraq is fully covered
by GC, on the other hand. This is the Bybee memo that
the Bush adminstration has been disavowing as "too broad,
theoretical" for the last two days.
\_ No, murder, sexual assault (rape), and some forms of
violence would still not be ok.
\_ Not according to the Bush Administration. Well,
they would be "not okay" by policy, but Bush
claims that he is above the law and that the
Administration could not be punished by any
judge or legislative act. So the prison guards
could rape away without fear of any punishment
if that was Administration policy. Or so they
claim.
\_ Bullshit. Show me where Bush said murder and rape
are ok in any American controlled prison.
\_ Don't forget: Iraq, it's not legal; Guantanamo,
legal for al Qaeda members. -op
\_ That's right, torture/killing of al Qaeda members at
Guantanamo is "not okay" (Bush said don't do it), but
it's "legal". Big difference. -op
\_ Torture, yes, of course. Killing, no. It is
intellectually dishonest to use "torture/killing"
as a one word phrase when only one part of it is
true.
\_ Let's put it this way: If an al Qaeda member
ends up dead at Guantanamo from a torture session
gone wrong, what charge will be brought?
Can we at least say that this manner of killing
is legal, as determined by the Bush adminstration? |
| 2004/6/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30911 Activity:insanely high |
6/18 New York Times 1998: Bin Laden and Iraq Made a Deal
NY Times 2004: No Al Qaeda Iraq Connection
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1155977/posts
\_ what kind of link? the US originally passed billions
in weapons and supplies to afghanistan via pakistan
in the 80s, i'm sure some of it ended up with al-queda. so
we have a link to al-queda. should we torture ourselves?
\_ what? huh? what does the us giving weapons to the anti-soviet
forces have to do with Iraq today or in 1998?
\_ it has nothing to do with iraq. it has everything to do
afghanistan and the early stages of the forming of
al-queda.
\_ It's the NYT. They have an agenda. They push their agenda.
Everyone knows it. Why bother stating the obvious all the time?
\_ What kind of agenda are they pushing if they're not even
consistent among themselves?
\_ It is very consistent. In 1998 Clinton needed support for
his bombing campaign and distraction from his other issues
so there's this big link and deals are made and the NYT is
there as the big fly on the wall.
In 2004, Bush is the President so suddenly there was never
any connection. Agenda. See? All the news that's fit to
print and fits the agenda.
\_ 9/11 comission says link: http://csua.org/u/7tl
Chairman Thomas Kean has confirmed: "There were contacts between
Iraq and al-Qaeda, a number of them, some of them a little shadowy.
They were definitely there."
Following news stories, Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton said he did not
understand the media flap over this issue and that the commission
does not disagree with the administration's assertion that there
were connections between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government.
\_ Links, but no credible evidence of a collaborative relationship.
\_ There's a shitload of evidence of a collaborative relation-
ship. What there isn't is proof either way that Iraq was or
was not involved in 9/11.
\_ Dude, you should really stop parroting Cheney's line:
"We just don't know." "No credible evidence", "no
convincing evidence" works much better.
\_ Anyone who could read a newspaper or URL was aware of
the truth before Cheney said it. Should I invent my
own truth just so I'm not saying the same thing as him?
The truth it the truth. You've said nothing to dispute
what I said.
\_ Hey loser, the NY Times was reporting on what the 9/11 commission
said. The NY Times did err in having the headline "No Iraq-Al
Qaeda link", but in the lead paragraph, they say, "no credible
evidence of a collaborative relationship". They shouldn't have
pushed it, when they already had something good.
They served it right up for Cheney and the Republican spin machine.
\_ It isn't spin if you're correcting a media error. That's called
being right.
\-I think this discussion is largely pointless without some
threashold for what "involvement" involves ... otherwise you
can claim there is a link between 9-11 and 7-11 because
Md Atta bought a Super Big Gulp one night. For example,
France denied overfly rights when the US went to bomb Libya.
How does that compare to the level of support given to AQ
w.r.t. to 9/11. I think you need to keep it focused to 9/11
because if you just use the general standard of support of
assorted terrorist groups, well then we've known about that
all along [e.g. Abu Nidal] and it sort of seemed an expedient
case of being "shocked, shocked". Keep in mind, the "western
powers" have certainly harbored their share of thugs ...
from Noreiga and the US, to the many African thugs and
criminals with their "palaces" or hotel suites in various
European capitals [Paris, Brussels, London], or on the Cote
d'Azur. --psb
\_ Moral equiv. Good move. |
| 2004/6/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:30898 Activity:insanely high |
6/18 WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
What's the matter. Are you sick of people using the one quote
you have against liberals and turning it into a joke?
\_ What quote? I didn't even know it was against liberals. I never
"got it". You toss it around at random so it never means anything.
\_ Are you fucking blind? "Why do you hate America?" is the most
overused attack either on the motd and in the FoxNews media.
That, followed by "Why do you support terrorists?"
\_ On the motd it isn't an attack. It's just spewed around at
random. Maybe you thought it was some bit of cleverness. I
am simply stupid because as I already said, I never got it.
I've *never* heard the line from any Fox media outlet or
any other place in the world outside the motd. Has the motd
become a Fox media outlet?
\_ This post, just one week after 9/11:
9/19 Another one for the America haters
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba89ffd1b40.htm
\_ That's it??!! A single motd post from 9/19/2001 with a
freeper URL? *That* is the source of all america
hatred??
\_ No, I'm not talking about the source of all
"america hatred" but the accusations of others
hating America when they never admitted to it.
Go do your own homework. I'm not going to look
up all the motd entries for you. But just in case
you're too lazy, here's another one
7/4 Happy 4th of July! (even to you America haters)
\_ WHY ASK WHY? |
| 2004/6/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30893 Activity:insanely high |
6/18 AH-64 Apache engineer beheaded and photos uploaded with head placed
on his back.
\_why dont you so called hackers destroy their islamic websites?
\_ why don't you so-called nationalist hawks destroy their ability
to wage war on us?
\_ Workin' on it.
\_ working on it. what have you done for the country lately?
\_ great! and by "working on it" i suppose you mean supporting
a president who lied to the american people and the world
to divert our military efforts from fighting terrorism to
carrying out a war of personal vengance in iraq?
good for you! keep wasting time at your sysadmin job while
posting to the motd and freerepublic and we'll have those
islamists under control in no time!
\_ Nearly all Republicans think Dubya did it to protect
America, not as a matter of "personal vengeance".
\_ Since 50% of Americans think Saddam Hussein conspired
with Al-Qaeda, a lot of Republicans are misinformed,
to say the least.
\_ ... could be half Democrats, half Republican.
Anyway, the far more believable scenario is Bush
not being tall enough to cut through the crap and
seeing that there was no WMD threat, in spite of
Cheney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld/the CIA/Chalabi.
\_ Assuming Republicans are at least as likely to
believe the lies of a Republican administration
as Democrats, then 50% of Republicans are
misinformed.
\_ I already said that
\_ Well, the 9/11 commission is in that 50%. Not
conspired to commit 9/11, but there were many
Iraq-Al Qaeda links.
\_ They said there is no credible evidence of a
collaborative relationship between Iraq and
Al Qaeda. "Links" means Al Qaeda formally
requested Iraqi support, and Iraq never
responded.
\_ Point me to some Islamic Websites to take down. (No
Al-jezzera)
\_ in progress. you let them get strong enough that it's going
to take a while.
\_ the beheading is part of terrorist's propaganda campaign.
should the media keep on hyping this event? |
| 2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30858 Activity:high |
6/17 Bush disputes the Arch liberal 9/11 commission findings:
http://csua.org/u/7st
\_ Presidents like this will destabilize the Middle East for years to
come.
\_ WDYHA?
\_ Generations, damn it! And that's American credibility. Get
the Big Lie right before you start telling it. |
| 2004/6/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30789 Activity:very high |
6/14 if Osama gets caught, give him a sex change operation, big
boobs and release him naked through the streets of saudi arabia
\_ first, give him a queer makeover
\_ Queer Eye For The Fear Guy?!
\_ if osama gets caught, we're not gonna find out till at least
a year later, if at all.
\_ Smart money says he's already dead. How do you get bi weekly
kidney dialysis in a cave?!
\_ By the grace of Allah! Duh!
\_ Smart money says that BushCo has him locked up overseas
somewhere and will unveil him in time for the election.
\_ No, that would be the long odds. I give you 35:1.
\_ Nah, there won't be that big an october surprise. It'll
be Al Zarakawi (sp?) the #2 guy that's been given us some
problems recently or maybe Al Sadr.
\_ Nah, he was always a hypocondriac. He isn't nearly as ill
as he always seemed to think he was or he would've been dead
years ago. |
| 2004/6/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30745 Activity:insanely high |
6/11 poll, USA was safer before/after the fall of USSR:
before: .
after:
\_ better question is if the USA was safer before the Muslim
genocides in the 800s or after
\_ There was the USA in the 800s?
\_ why do you hate America?
\_ Inhabited by pre-Americans.
\_ This is just stupid. Was the USA safer when we and the USSR were
pointing 30,000 nukes in each direction and willing to kill every
human being on the planet or are we safer now that they're gone,
the Russians are in the G8 and we have cordial chats with them
about world affairs? New poll: is it better to live a long and
happy life or a short painful miserable one? Duh.
\_ myth: world was unsafe because of USSR
fact: none of the nukes were actually used
\_ fact: both sides had itchy trigger fingers. you're safer when
one side ceases to exist and there's no one looking for an
excuse to destroy the world. im stunned we're even having
this discussion.
\_ But after the fall of USSR, their nukes can now be easily stolen
or purchased for the price of a BMW. So now we don't even know
who has them.
\_ Yes, but in this case, if ONE is used against us, it isn't
clear who we can counter-strike against, and then suddenly
we'll "find" lots of funds to go find the rest.
\_ Exactly. It's the perception of ominous threat vs. reality.
In reality, we are in far more danger now because the nukes
can and will fall into the wrong hands now that there is no
more than an anemic military watching the shop. I'm not saying
the fall of the USSR was a bad thing, but this is not one of
the reasons it was a good thing. The USSR did not want to use
their nukes any more than the USA did. This cannot be said of
some of the folks with access now. -- ulysses
\_ Maybe, maybe, maybe, some terrorists will get a nuke,
figure out how to use it, get it somewhere, and detonate
it killing an entire city's worth of people. The other
way the USSR and US were prepared to kill *everyone*.
\_ Oh really? So there are thousands of ex-USSR nukes around
now? Where does it say they're that easy to buy?
\_ when USSR existed, 1/2 of the rogue country's frustrations and
anger were directed at USSR. Now all are directed at USA.
\_ I understand your probabilities argument but if it goes
off in my city. I'll be too dead and glowing to carei
how many other cities went at the same time.
\_ another problem with his probabilities argument is that
the ussr was brutal when it came to responses to arab
terrorists. there was a kidnapping of some russians in
the early 80s. the kgb sent the kidnapper his brother's
ears and one of his balls in a gift wrapped box. the
hostages were freed and no other russians were ever
taken again until after the fall.
\_ Except most of the terrorists (and mideast states)
were funded by the KGB.
\_ No, they were self funded on their own oil sales.
The other arab states then funded terrorists
around/in Israel.
\_ Wow! KGB >>> CIA. KGB rule!!!
\_ URL please?
\_ What are the odds I can find you a URL from the
early 80s?
\_ I didn't want an URL from the 80s. I want an
URL about that event in the 80s.
\_ Good luck. The entirety of human history is
not on the web. You have everything I
remember about the situation. Go google for
it for a few hours and let us know. |
| 2004/6/10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30726 Activity:very high |
6/10 This keeps getting deleted, but nevermind. Global terrorism report
being revised by State Department after Administration meddling.
Revisions will show terrorism at highest level in 20 years, rather
than lowest level in 34 years as originally stated.
http://csua.org/u/7o4 (latimes via yahoo news)
\_ Piffle. An LA Times story with unnamed sources critical of the Bush
administratioN? What a surprise. Wait until the facts come out and
then post it again.
\_ You are way, way understating this. The poster, IMO, overstated
somewhat. Let's just call it what it is. They are revising
the report ... upward.
And, a Washington Post story today: http://csua.org/u/7op
This is where you say, "Liberal media ... bad!"
\_ Its only true if Rush Limbaugh says so.
\_ Rush never said you're an idiot, but it's still true.
\_ I always laugh when people attack radio, tv, newspaper or
other public figures they've never listened to, seen, read,
etc.
\_ I didn't cry "libural media"--I was criticizing a single
paper. I don't trust the LA Times or the NY Times unless it's
corroborated. And I don't trust unnamed sources. Oh, and I
don't listen to Rush.
\_ revise the report to go back to 900 AD and see how much terrorism
the muslim world produced
\_ RACIST!
\_ Why do you hate history?
\_ Include the Crusades then too.
\_ Crusades was dark ages version of "War on Terror" |
| 2004/6/8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30670 Activity:insanely high |
6/8 The very bottom of http://www.michaelmoore.com/index_real.php has a small article with the following paragraph: "When he was seven years old, Brandon Maxfield was accidentally shot in the face, becoming a permanent quadriplegic, completely paralyzed below the neck. The pistol that discharged while being unloaded was deliberately designed so that its safety had to first be moved from "Safe" to "Fire," making the trigger active and accidents more likely. I can't figure out what that last sentence is trying to say. Help? \_ That you can't unload the gun with the safety on, and that's a bad feature for a gun. \_ It's also a bad idea to point a gun at a 7 year while unloading it. \_ Agreed. In gun safety courses you're taught *never* to point a weapon at something you don't intend to shoot. Of course, young kids aren't typically sent through hunter safety courses anymore. \_ It doesn't say who was unloading the gun. It feels to me like the article leaves out details to obscure what actually happened. |
| 2004/6/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30620 Activity:nil |
6/5 Gunman goes on armored bulldozer rampage -
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/06/05/bulldozer.rampage/index.html
[URL fixed] |
| 2004/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30528 Activity:high |
6/1 "CNN - Government lawyers told the Supreme Court on Wednesday that the
president has the legal authority to detain and interrogate suspected
terrorists indefinitely without charging them regardless of whether
they are arrested overseas or in the United States."
Is this one easy or what? This should be a unanimous ruling. And if
you have to ask, yes, unanimous AGAINST the power. Otherwise we might
as well start calling him King George II of the United States of
America. We even have Scalia saying that the president's commander in
chief status "doesn't mean that he has power to do whatever it takes
to win the war."
\_ I thought he already is. If he wants to do something, just utter the
"terrorist" word and no one will say otherwise. It's the magic word
to get things done, like communism.
\_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
\_ WHY DO YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE?
\_ Because there's nothing to like about it!
\_ When are you leaving and for where?
\_ You want to capture the TERRORIST or not!!
\_ TERRORIST have no rights!
\_ You sound suspiciously like a terrorist to me.
\_ Why do you hate TERRORISM?
\_ What's that? Terror-ism? Terrorgasm? Bush only uses "Terror".
We are at war with an emotion.
\_ Yes, Jeff.
\_ Bush has the supreme court in his back pocket. He'll get
what he wants.
\_ I'm going to say this will be unanimous, and that this is the
case the conservative justices will point to to show that
they're not in Bush's back pocket.
\_ I'll say 7-2. Scalia will write a convoluted dissent and
Thomas will say "me too."
\_ Why do you hate black people? How long have you hated
black people?
\_ Clarence Thomas is black? I thought the NAACP
revoked his membership.
\_ It's not what's on the outside, it's what's on the
Coke can that counts.
\_ FOUR MORE YEARS! |
| 2004/5/26 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30430 Activity:insanely high |
5/26 Terrorists Have No Geneva Rights
http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.20589,filter.all/news_detail.asp
\_ This whole thing is very academic to me. All I really care about
is did the various abuses the prisoners underwent result in new
intelligence that saved lives or did it not? If it saved lives
then whatever if some dude was naked in front of some chick or
had to wear panties on his head.
\_ saved whose lives? every darn torturer would claim that their
torturing is for some greater cause.
\_ Saved American lives. I don't care about any others if it
means a dead American. And no, some torture is pure sadism.
Some is to get information.
\_ If you don't care about Iraqi lives, why are you in Iraq?
For the oil?
\_ American lives >> Iraqi lives >> terrorist rights not
to wear panties on head. Oil is a dead energy source.
The amount being pumped from major sources around the
world has been shrinking the last few years and it's
getting harder and harder to get what's left. They're
pushing the fields too hard and damaging some of them
as we speak and going back 3-5 years in some places.
Fighting for oil is stupid. If that was all it was
about, the money was better spent doing fusion research
and building nuclear power plants. If enriching GWB's
friends was the point, the money was better spent on
research and nuke plants and it would've made for better
polling numbers, too. When I'm elected, that's the way
it'll be. And yes, we'll continue spending money on
space exploration in a big way, too. Lack of progress
in science = death.
\_ Also on this site: Democrats cause cancer.
\_ Is that why they hate America?
\_ Why do you hate white people?
\_ There are so many deceptions, errors of reason and outright
falsehoods in this article that it is hard to decide where to
begin, but I will start by saying the Geneva Convention applies
to the signers no matter what the "other" side does. There is
no provision for being released from it if the other side
violates some provision of it, for reasons that should be
violates some part of it, for reasons that should be
obvious if you think about it for half a second.
\_ Wrong! Have you even read the Convention, or are you
paraphrasing a http://commondreams.org article?
\_ Is it so hard for you to just post the relevant sections or
a link?
"In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in
peace time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases
of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may
arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties,
even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.
The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or
total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting
Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed
resistance.
Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party
to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties
thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations.
They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in
relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and
applies the provisions thereof."
The second-to-the-last sentence is ambiguous and sets in
motion the debate as to whether a signer is obliged to abide
by the conventions when not in conflict with another signer.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva03.htm
\_ And if you bothered to continue to article 4 you
would instantly recognize you are a complete moron.
Why do I bother arguing with someone who hasn't
even read the thing????
\_ Show me what part of article 4 applies. Quote
the specific passage. Article 4 just defines
what a Prisoner Of War is. It does not deal
with being released from the provisions of
the GC. I think you are reaching.
\_ You haven't figured out that this was whole
point of Yoo's article? Let me spell it out
very simply: the Geneva Convention applies
to POWs, classification as a POW requires
that the individual satisfy several
preconditions articulated in article 4. Why
do you think every subsequent part and section
begins with some reference to "prisoner of
war"? The title of the the document is
"Geneva Convention (III) Relative to the
Treatment of PRISONERS OF WAR"
Is this a troll - are you feigning
stupidity?
\_ Doesn't GC cover non-combatants as well?
When did we declare the entire population
enemy combatants? How does a democracy of
combatants work?
\_ GCIV covers non-combatants. Resume Fight!
\_ GCIV covers non-combatants.
GCIII covers POWs. Resume fight! *ding*
\_ So when the red cross reports that 70-90%
of those held were not combatants, did
nothing requiring detainment, how the hell
does that jive wth the GCs? Also, see
III4A.6
\_ Most of the world doesn't even accept the
whole "enemy combatant" designation as
a valid category:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant
\_ Motd. It's like Usenet, but more so.
\_ I have obviously read and understood more of it than you.
\_ John Yoo, Boalt professor, sponsor of both the Patriot Act
and non-GC treatment in Afghanistan. Clerked under Thomas.
Descriptions of what counts as "torture" under federal law. Yay!
"It's fair to say that Berkeley is liberal and Boalt Hall is a very
liberal law school. I wouldn't say I've ever had any problems with
my colleagues. Almost all of them disagree with me, but are
respectful of my ideas. They're more interested in debating rather
than disregarding my beliefs."
\_ impressive pedigree but unfortunately he is a statist.
\_ Just goes to show that no matter how much of a right-wing
extremist you are, there is always someone worse.
\_ Right wing, bad! Left wing, center! Good! Yes! W00t!
AARRRRARRRARRRARAAARRRRGGHGHHHG!!!! -- your guy last fall
\_ Again, when the right reaches for stuff this weak, you
know they know their boy's in trouble this November. |
| 2004/5/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30425 Activity:insanely high |
5/25 CNN: "Sources: Major terror attack possible this summer"
Should I change my summer plans?
\_ yes. they're on to you.
\_ flee before the motd reports you to the fbi
\_ It'll be fun to watch Rummy say how terrorists will try to
influence the November election ala Spain. Vote Bush or the
terrorists will win!
\_ You've been alive for at least 6 months, right? 2 seconds after
the Spanish bombings, *everyone* was saying they'd try to do the
same thing here. Where the hell have you been sleeping?
\_ You misunderstood the remark. I want to hear the Republicans
state outright "Vote for Kerry and the terrorists win." There
has been lots of talk of the terrorists attacks influencing
the election, but no one big has yet politicized them to this
point. Fun! Fun! Fun! Feel the dark side!
\_ I see. My misreading. Nevermind. Are you also waiting
for the Dems to say, "See? If Kerry/Gore was in office,
these things would have never happened because the UN would
have been involved!"?
\_ Try googling
"would have never happened" "UN involvement"
and nothing turns up. Of course, I'm sure you feepers
and the Office of Information Manipulation will put
up a fake Dem website that says "If Kerry/Gore was
in office, these things would have never happened
because the UN would have been involved!"
\_ You understand the difference between the past which
would be a google search and the future which is what
the word "waiting" means, right? Now go back and
try again after going to http://dictionary.com instead of
http://google.com and typing "waiting" into the box.
\_ You lose. Everyone already says that. Even Neocons will
state, if Gore were in office, Saddam Hussein would
still be in power, implying no war on Iraq, therefore
no mess in Iraq. Of course, Bush is now pushing the
terrorists / Al Quada == Iraq which is now true thanks
to the war. Ah, I love self fulfilling prophecies. It
makes me feel more an Evangelical Christian!
\_ Iraq? We're talking about terrorism in the USA. If
you were remotely on topic I might lose but since
you're off in babble land your post is bit-waste. |
| 2004/5/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:30423 Activity:high |
5/25 Don't believe it could happen?
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html
\_ it? what it? fucking trolls. im not going to read your zero
content teaser link. that's almost as bad as a cock tease. get off
the motd you link tease.
\_ It's not like it's a disguised freeper link.
\_ It might as well be. Why can't OP just say what "it" is?
Link tease!
\_ Operation Northwoods
\_ Which means what? "Don't believe Operation Northwoods
could happen? <url here>" Ok, so what? |
| 2004/5/24 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30396 Activity:high |
5/24 More news on the bombed-out Iraqi border town the US says was a
terrorist safe-house, and which the locals say was a wedding. There's
a videotaps of the festivities showing bride arriving and the men
having a party. There's film of the wedding singer, who is apparently
semi-famous, and there's film of him being buried the next day in the
same clothes he sang in. See it at: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5045772
\_ don't they mix and match different events? like how do I know which
things happened when and where?
\_ Let's see.... are you seriously suggesting that the evildoers
found a random wedding tape, then massacred the attendees,
including children and the wedding singer, then drug the
bodies over to the bombing site all in order to make the US
look bad?
\_ Why do you hate America?
\_ No, but why is it impossible to believe that they hired
him for their wedding? Terrorists get married, too. |
| 2004/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30352 Activity:nil |
5/21 http://csua.org/u/7ej (ABC News) 30-year-old Abu Ghraib sysadmin Sgt. Provance stripped of his security clearance and told he may face prosecution because his comments were "not in the national interest." He was probably smacked because: "Provance said when Fay interviewed him, the general seemed interested only in the military police, not the interrogators, and seemed to discourage him from testifying", making Maj. Gen. Fay (who has been assigned by the Pentagon to look into MI's role in the abuse) look really bad. \_ If you're a sysadmin you'd better be at least a Major. Sergeants get paid peanuts. They got what they paid for. |
| 2004/5/21 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30336 Activity:very high |
5/21 Bomb Canada:
http://tinyurl.com/32jdo (canada.com/national post)
\_ If we're nice to the terrorists, they'll be nice back! It's
just because we're so mean that they attack!
\_ I think we should negotiate with the terrorists. Surely their
demands are reasonable and can be accomadated.
\_ I agree with both of the above. If we just let them kill all the
Jews, give them back Spain, build new Wahabi schools to educate
more of their children, and all either convert or kill ourselves,
they'll stop attacking us.
\_ I think Bush and Osama need to get together for some
tantric yoga.
\_ Just think of how much more we could have gotten done in the war
on terror if we hadn't listened to Chalabi. |
| 2004/5/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Law/Court] UID:30332 Activity:high |
5/20 Terrorist lawyer released. (yahoo AP)
http://tinyurl.com/2bxac
\_ The fingerprints turned out to be from another guy. But, the
lawyer has a gag order on him. From the story:
Mayfield's brother, Kent, had to be pulled away from the TV
cameras by Wax when he shouted out: "This proves it was a total
witchhunt!"
\_ Can there be a blanket gag order to thwart all hate-america
anti-freedom speech and writing?
\_ But Foxnews said that freedom is slavery. you're not
pro-slavery are you?
\_ We should all be slaves of God, Christ, and His
free market on earth. Are you a godless communist?
\_ Good way to kill what could have been a good conversation. Do
you *really* prefer that the motd is just partisan noise? |
| 2004/5/20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30319 Activity:moderate |
5/20 http://tinyurl.com/2g3gu (news.yahoo.com) And you thought Lindy England was bad. \_ Is she related to Libby Hoeler? Does that name ring a bell to anyone? She was famous during the .com boom. \_ It's definitely not as bad as you're saying. The guy is already dead, and she had nothing to do with his death. \_ and how exactly do you know she had nothing to do with his death? \_ always assume the worst of people. screw that innocent before proven guilty bullshit. \_ The guys who were descerated in Fallujah were dead and the folks dancing around like idjits had nothing to do with their deaths. Their punishment was a hundred or so dead, many more wounded, and a month-long siege. It's all relative. \_ Seems like the little fish that are being fried are fighting back. Hopefully, the bigger fish will get their due. \- random observation: are all the low level people involved so far in the pictures white people? --psb \_ No. There is one black dude involved. |
| 2004/5/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30295 Activity:nil |
5/19 All leftist half truths and lies on a single page for easy talking
points reference. Here's Dowd for your reading 'pleasure':
http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Apr/04272004/commenta/commenta.asp |
| 2004/5/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30282 Activity:nil |
5/18 And the shit keeps hitting the fan. Intel Seargent Samuel
Provance alleges cover-up at Abu-Ghraib
http://tinyurl.com/2w2ts (ABC News link) |
| 2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30213 Activity:moderate |
5/13 Leaking self-doubt: How the military outed its own scandal
http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA521.htm
\_ Whatever. The military was in the middle of conducting an
investigation and was preparing a PR release when CBS found out
about it and had to scoop the story to make it look like some
all purpose military conspiracy to hide the truth. They were asked
to hold back on the photos until the military could get their report
out (roughly 1 week) but this is CBS. Not exactly the home of good
journalism. So some shmucks at CBS played 'gotcha!' and won
because you can't fight the media on their own turf. Think CBS is
going to spend a lot of time highlighting all this?
\_ How is this not good journalism? Should the media always self
censor at the request of the government? |
| 2004/5/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30168 Activity:high |
5/11 I'm waiting for the media and Dem. Congress to work themselves
up into a frenzy over Berg's decapitation. Of course no
news organization will show the video on TV.
\_ His family sent their son their just so they could blame it
on Bushco.
\_ I heard they played it on CNN.
\_ "This kind of barbaric behavior will have the same effect it
usually has: it will make civilized people around the world
more determined than ever to exterminate al-Qaeda and its
likeminded brethren.
"Barbaric behavior doesn't win wars, it just makes your
enemies more dedicated to their cause, which is why it's so
important to eliminate the kind of barbarism we've recently
seen at Abu Ghraib from our own side: because it just makes
our enemies stronger. If we don't purge it root and branch,
we've as good as lost the war. In more ways than one."
-http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_05/003893.php
\_ What do you hate America? Why are you not on the side of our
troops? What's wrong with our heroic soldiers having some
fun? Why aren't Iraqis grateful enough to volunteer as comfort
women and boys? |
| 2004/5/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30113 Activity:kinda low |
5/9 http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/05/01/story145446.html Why you shouldn't believe every report about terrorist plots uncovered \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA? \_ At a guess: Because people are always shouting at him? |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30091 Activity:nil |
5/7 Shocking news flash! Michael Moore is a self-promoting lying scumbag.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=518901
\_ self-promoting? sure. everyone in the industry is. lying? The
crux of his charge is that disney decided not to distribute his
film because of pressure from politicians. when he knew about it
doesn't change the validity of the charge. scumbag? i'll leave
that to people who know him. Keep in mind that he was already on
the cannes festival shortlist.
\_ i can handle one little white lie by mm versus
well just about 1000 other things going on right now.
\_ Non sequitur.
\_ If you read what Mickael Moore really said, that article does a very
good job at taking stuff out of context to make him sound a lot
worse that he really is. Shocking news flash! The Independent is
a totally partisan rag!
\_ You can't really fault a filmmaker for trying to create free
publicity. MM is indeed a lying scumbag, so much so that this is
\_ Yes I can.
like criticising the devil for smoking (though, i have to admit,
i still am a bit of a fan), but it is his affinity for dishonesty
*IN* his movies that is dispicable, not his self-promotion. -phuqm
\_ Of Satan or Michael Moore? -- ilyas
\_ shrug, what's wrong with having an agenda to make Disney look bad?
He didn't lie in this instance. He just held the news until he
could exploit it to maximum negative effect. Seems to me the
reporter is just swallowing the freeper spin hook, line, and sinker. |
| 2004/5/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30010 Activity:very high |
5/4 What's the probability of Bush getting reelected? Will he stage
something like the Taiwan president did? (ie, let one terrorist
attempt be successful the week before election?)
\_ You mean like 9/11?
\_ on a much smaller scale. 911 again would be bad for Bush.
\_ Another 9/11 would be great for Bush. It would also result
in a draft, large scale mobilization of industrial capacity
of the US, and the summary squishing of most of the Middle
East, in my opinion. Bush is at his best in squishing mode.
Nothing's scarier than a pissed off America mobilized for war.
What's happening now is scary enough, and we aren't even on
anywhere close to war footing. -- ilyas
\_ Hmm. I'm not so sure about this. If it was Bin Laden again,
well, it doesn't look like there would be anything in
particular to do about it. I don't think congress would
jump on board a general "war on muslims" policy. The other
dictators are being pussies lately. Hell, Saddam was trying
hard to be a pussy until the end.
\_ Not 'war on muslims', 'war on fundamentalist islam, and
middle eastern dictatorships'.
\_ You know, Oliver Stone foretold all of this in Wild Palms
s/911/boca raton nuke/g and it's very creepy - even to the
part about the "Liberty Bill"
\_ according to John Zogby it's very close to 50/50, and he makes money
off of being right, not off of being partisan one way or the
other.
\_ I'd be really curious what the oddsmakers have on it. Can you bet
point spread on elections or is it only up/down?
\_ The Insider has it at 9/8, tradesports at 58/42. You can
bet on total electoral votes on tradesports. Betting on
elections is illegal in the United States.
http://www.campaignline.com/index.cfm
\_ What are the odds on the US "suddenly" capturing UBL in
October?
http://csua.org/u/76q
\_ The odds on him being captured by Set are 30/70, by
the end of the year 40/60. |
| 2004/5/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:29951 Activity:high |
5/2 Everyone be sure to watch "10.5" on NBC tonight from 9-11 PM. It's
TV at its finest! |
| 2004/5/1 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:26955 Activity:nil |
5/1 General Suggests Abuses at Iraq Jail Are Encouraged (warm up part
of intel interrogation)
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html
\_ Those pictures show why there should be no women or gays
in the military. What is shown is those pictures is
nothing more than hazing. |
| 2004/4/27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:13414 Activity:nil |
4/27 Interesting little article on early (18th century) terrorists.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38200
\_ OMG! WTF? LOL! Worldnetdaily, heh.
\_ 1) They're pirates, not terrorists. 2) There's an article on the
Library of Congress site that does a better job of outlining the
conflict:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/mtjhtml/mtjprece.html
\_ You're wrong too. Pirates are people who copy CDs, instead of
meekly paying out for everytime they scratch the original disc.
\_ Piracy : robbery on the high seas
\_ *laugh* yeah right, like the *only* mp3s you have are either
from copyright free sources or replacements for cds you
scratched. that's sooo believable. |
| 2004/4/27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:13407 Activity:nil |
4/27 Terrorist attacks in Syria?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/world/main614030.shtml |
| 2004/4/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, ERROR, uid:13262, category id '18005#5' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13262 Activity:nil |
4/18 Besides frontline what is good to watch online?
\_ http://www.cspan.org
Has cspan, cspan2, cspan3, cspan radio and archived bits from
the various cspans. All free.
\_ http://Archive.org has a ton of "ephemeral films" free to download. |
| 2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13204 Activity:nil |
4/14 For every American hero killed, we should dispose of 100 Iraqi
terrorists.
\_ you mean dispose 100% terrorist before an American is killed
\_ I mean this will teach those Iraqi terrorists a good lesson.
\_ Especially those who were pro-American before an errant
bomb decimated their village.
\_ Name an Iraqi village that got decimated by an errant bomb.
\_ Bombs are smart but people are stupid, at least the
terrorists are. They just don't want to be liberated. |
| 2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13196 Activity:nil 61%like:13197 |
4/14 What media bias? (different article, different topic, same theme)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38026 |
| 2004/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13176 Activity:nil |
4/13 John Ashcroft testimony for 9/11 commission paraphrased: It's not
our fault. It's Clinton's fault. Had we known exactly when, where,
and how a terrorist attack was going to take place, we would have
stopped it. We need the US PATRIOT act.
http://wid.ap.org/transcripts/ashcroft_index.html
\_ To paraphrase John Stewart, the buck does not stop anywhere near
these guys.
\_ at least this time you included a transcript with your biased crap. |
| 2004/4/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13137 Activity:low |
4/11 Read the Presidential Daily Briefing for yourself:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4710772
\_ Yeah, but this was during Bush's vacation. I know I don't pay
attention to stuff on vacation.
\_ If any of you were President at the time what would you have done
differently that wasn't already being done and why would you have
done so without hindsight to guide you?
\_ I'd've solidified no-fly-zone policies nationwide, and I would
have made it clear that shooting down a passenger plane or three
is preferable to the use of planes as bombs. I would have
made it clear that any lack of communication between the FBI,
CIA, and NSA not having to do with Congressionally legislated
limitations would result in the immediate termination of the
various directors involved. These are old problems, and they
should have been dealt with.
\_ No fly zones? Wouldn't have helped. A national order on
shooting down planes? You wanted to be impeached? You wanted
the various 3 letter agencies to communicate with each other
in VIOLATION OF THE LAW and bring the privacy nuts down on
your head? Okey dokey! So you'd be about as effective as my
dog as President. Probably less so. My dog is very cute.
\_ How wouldn't no-fly zones have helped? How does having a
policy on when it's acceptable to shoot down a plane
become an impeachable offense? What part of "any lack
of communication between the FBI, CIA, and NSA not having
to do with Congressionally legislated limitations" is
in violation of the law? When will you stop fellating
your dog and post something intelligent?
\_ I'd have ignored it since they haven't killed enough people
to be significant. When they pass the magic total, I'll use
it as an excuse to create an American hegemony in the Middle
East. Perferably one with lots of oil.
\_ I'd also cut anti-terrorism funding because we all hate
swatting at flies.
\_ Magic total = 911 people?
\_ Contestant number 3, are you the son of a former
President? |
| 2004/4/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13134 Activity:high |
4/11 Bush knew! He's going down! Kerry'04!
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3558
|_ restored after you can't deal with the truth
\_ go fuck yourself. |
| 2004/4/9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13109 Activity:nil |
4/8 I'm driving up to Seattle/Vancouver on Sunday just for kicks. Any
suggestions of places to stop on the way? So far I've been recommended
the Tulip Festival in Skagit (tulipfestival.org).
\_ I'm leaving Sunday and have to be in Seattle on Tuesday, so like
the person below says... I am sort of "blasting" through. However,
I would like to make a 3-4 detour either through a national forest,
quaint town, or something like that. The suggestions below are all
great... much appreciated.
\_ errr ... that's a very long drive with literally hundreds
of places on the way worth visiting.
\_ yes, that's teh problem, so much to do, so little time.
http://traveloregon.com is a pretty good site.
\- helo if you are interested in geology, there are some
interesting locations in eastern oregon to drive through
rather than blasting up 5. but yeah, you have to put
more on the table for meaningful feedback.
\_ If you're going through Portland, I recommend stopping at
Powell's bookstore. I've been told it's the biggest bookstore.
\_ Powell's rocks. Also in Portland is the nickel arcade
(very cheap arcade games) and Dot's, a dive-y bar with
a sock monkey tree. I recommend the Lime Rickey. -brain
\_ An arcade? give me a break...
\_ Redwood national forest on the border btw Oregon and CA, and
some volcanic lake the name of which I forgot somewhat more inland.
These things stand out on any map so I guess maybe you are not
into nature things if you bothered to ask.
\_ Crater Lake. It's cool. I think it's a National Park.
\_ I was thinking about going here. What's it like? Big holes
in the ground, volcanic ash?
\_ It's a beautiful deep blue lake that is very deep. It's
surrounded by a cliff rim all the way around that drops
several hundred feet to the lake surface. There's a
funny little island in the middle you can take a boat out
to. You can also hike up to some of the little peaks
around the rim.
\_ Portland's rose garden is nice, though probably not so much so this
time of year.
\_ The Bridgeport Brewery in Portland:
http://www.bridgeportbrew.com/bp-brewery.html
Free tours at 2 and 5 daily.
\_ don't forget to pick up danh on your way back
\_ Lake Shastina. Say hi to Ponch while you're there. |
| 2004/4/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:13098 Activity:nil |
4/8 Claim vs. Fact with Rice's Opening Statement and Q&A:
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44887
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44918
\_ Cool, mind if I send you to an equally biased site for a
"claim vs fact" on this or other hot button topics? Why do so
many of you think your biased crap will be taken seriously by
anyone who isn't already a singing member of the choir?
\_ Hey, if we can have freep and drudge links we can have
American Progress links. They're more credible than both of
those sites put together anyway - the left equivalent to
freep would be international ANSWER, or something... |
| 2004/4/6 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:13033 Activity:nil |
4/6 Gary Hart: We warned Bush in January 2001 about probable terrorist
threat; why hasn't 9/11 commission called us?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/04/06/commission/index.html
\_ Because Gary Hart is a liar and a piece of shit has-been and no one
cares what he thinks or claims to know about anything? |
| 2004/4/6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13032 Activity:high 50%like:13030 |
4/6 Don't you hate it when facts get in the way of your book sales?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1112119/posts
\_ Here's a much better article on the same subject:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040406-121654-1495r.htm
\_ You are joking right?
\_ if you have to ask...
\_ exactly.
\_ i don't get it |
| 2004/4/6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13030 Activity:high 50%like:13032 |
4/5 Damn it, I hate when facts get in the way of my book sales! --clarke
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040406-121654-1495r.htm
\_ Damn it, I hate it when the real news doesn't furnish pithy,
topical subject lines, so I have to resort to my limited creative
writing skills.
\_ Clue bat: this isn't a news site. If you want boring, go read
CNN. But you do score half a point for completely ducking the
content and point of the URL. Maybe next time you'll get an
entire cookie!
\_ Damn it, I hate it when people having fun pointing out the
faults in my posts gets in the way of my trolling! --op
\_ Keep ducking. So far you've got 2 ad hominens, 2 ducks
and 1 falsely signed post and 0 real replies. --real op |
| 2004/4/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29901 Activity:nil |
4/2 Brits, Japanese, Germans, and Aussies to be fingerprinted at
Passport Control:
http://csua.org/u/6qe (NYTimes by way of Google)
Question: Will my wife, who has a Green Card, be subjected to
this, or is it just for temporary visitors?
\_ I'll bet you my U.S. passport that if the Bush junta gets another
4 years of power, this will include U.S. citizens, canadians, and
everyone else within four years. Right now the U.S. is very clearly
on the road towards fascism, and if America falls no one will be
safe anywhere. |
| 2004/4/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:12995 Activity:high |
4/2 http://tinyurl.com/2h3cv "Russia said in February that it was developing a so-called hypersonic missile technology capable of piercing the United States' system. But Mr. Ishiba said he did not believe that a shield would encourage other countries to develop missiles that would defeat the system. "If you launch a missile and it gets shot down," he said, "you give up missile production." " ** Huh? ** \_ saying that if the non-hypersonic missiles get shot down why bother with missiles \_ Maybe he's trying to say there's cheaper ways of fucking us up. \_ The argument for missle defense is not that it will be perfect. That's stupid. The argument goes more like: (as a metaphor) Despite the locks on your door, thieves can metaphor) Despite the locks on your door, theives can break in and steal. Should you therefore leave the door open? \_ I've never felt safer than when i lived just up from a crazy biker dude who left his front door literally wide open all the time. if anyone wanted to rob our place, they'd probably the ceiling. the DETERENCE of the mad biker was much more just wander in the front door and get blasted straight through the cieling. the DETERENCE of the mad biker was much more \_ Ok you're safer from random violence. But psycho biker may attract violence, or somehow harm you. I'd rather just live in a normal neighborhood and take steps. useful than a locked door. deterence has worked with nuclear weapons for half a century as well. \_ How much have we spent on Star Wars? $100B? $200B? \_ About $2b total, mostly in basic research to get where we are today. Please stop inventing random numbers. With $2b they wouldn't be *any* safer after the union driven harbors got their fingers in the pie. open? How much safer could our harbors and airports be for that much money? \_ But it'd be easier for a terrorist to sneak a nuclear device in the same way drugs get in here from South America. So the argument is more like: What good is locking your door if you've got a gaping hole in your wall big enough to drive a car through? \_ Umm, not exactly. Nice red herring though. We have something of a defense against that. It sucks, but it's not nothing. We have NO defense against missiles. \_ But what's the bigger threat? Terrorists are the main bad guys these days, and they don't usually go for (expensive) ICBMs when they have cheaper and simpler options. \_ The red herring here is that we should/can only \_ No, the red herring is that a $30 lock is analagous to a $200 billion missile defense system. The missile defense system is simply not cost-effective; a lock on your door is. \_ What is the cost of a city getting incinerated? I suspect more than $200b. What is the cost of your house getting robbed? I suspect less than $200b. You're struggling with the concept of appropriate levels of response. The correct level for keeping a city from turning to ashes is much higher than for your bike parked out on telegraph. defend against a single threat. The reality is that we should try to defend against all threats. Natn'l defense is not an either-or proposition. \_ That's true that terrorists are the bigger threat, but that's doesn't make them the ONLY threat. We're working on how to stop terrorists, but don't be fooled into thinking that NK, China, or even Russia are completely neutralized. With the lazer 747 we can help defend Japan and SK against the North. \_ what do you mean "even russia"? russia is still the only country that can incinerate the entire USA if it so chooses. strong man putin is pulling russia back on its feet, and in this era of cheap labor and high material costs, the vast land and riches of mother russia is going to benefit russia tremendously. the russian bear shall rise again! \_ "incinerate the entire USA". So you think a country that can potentially only incinerate the west coast such as China or NK isn't a threat? btw, russia is still going through the death throes of self destruction. they are not yet in a recovery phase. \_ you are out of date. russia is very much into recovery. It is using the formula of get rich first with capitalism under strong authoritarian leadership \_ russia is fucked. their last election was a total joke. they're teetering on the edge of dictatorship (again) and now they have a broken military *and* terrorists beating on their doors at the same time. i'm not out of date. im right here in 2004. you're living in the hey day of post-communism but before they saw how hard the road to freedom really is. oh yeah and their environment was and still is *devastated* from what the communists did to it which makes our worst problems look like a fairy land of healthy goodness. russia = fux0red. open? cheaper and simpler options. \_ you are out of date. russia is very much into recovery. followed by US allies like Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. when these nations were in a similar stage of development. |
| 2004/4/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12989 Activity:nil |
4/2 For the interested (and since it was deleted right after I posted it),
the raw numbers for the 308k jobs added in March are at:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t14.htm
To the person claiming it was all part-time jobs: how many of the
"jobs lost under Bush's watch" were part-time? And how many weren't
directly attributable to 9-11 (hint: 1 million jobs lost because of
9-11)?
\_ http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t05.htm
300,000 of those jobs are part time
\_ I believe you're pointing to the 'household survey' which isn't
the same bunch of numbers at all. Also, how many of the
previously lost jobs were part time?
\_ I am not the only one saying this. The chief economist of
Wells Fargo says the same thing:
http://csua.org/u/6qv
It is a good number, but not a great number. Expect
employment numbers to go down next month.
\_ Expect employment numbers to go up/down based on what?
I love the motd prophets. Was that tea leaves or chicken
bones?
\_ Both your links are not working because the .gov cannot seem to
afford servers robust enough to handle the load.
\_ Because it was posted on some very active news sites. It'll be
easier to read in a few days. |
| 2004/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12941 Activity:moderate |
3/31 Guess who used to believe in the Iraq/al-Qaida connection?
From your favorite neo-marxist Christopher Hitchens
http://slate.msn.com/id/2097901
\_ You know that some (but not all) of so called neo-con
movement are formerly known as liberals. One even
likened the U.S. to the Soviet Union appreciatively.
\_ I have no idea what you are trying to say.
\_ uh, no news here... Hitchens used to be really liberal
until 9/11
\_ You don't believe Iraq was funding any terrorists? How is that
when it is public info announced to the world by Iraq under Saddam?
\_ Funding which terrorists? And don't say they're all the same;
many of the groups have trouble _not_ bombing each other, let
alone the infidels. The point, in my mind, is that Iraq had
nothing to do with the Al Qaeda attack on the WTC and nothing
to do with Al Qaeda afterwards. There was no justification
there for invading Iraq.
\_ "Terrorists" are not one big team. This is not G I Joe. And
usually if you want to be taken seriously, you cite an article
where you are getting this "public info." The assertion that
there were WMDs was also "public info" but that information,
like yours, was not backed by any real facts.
\_ You're nuts, dude. He was giving bounty money to families
of suicide bombers. What more do you want? One of the
original cashed checks after it went through the Bank Of
Hamas?
\_ Thanks for the psych eval. Bounty money to families of
suicide bombers != justification for invasion. It was
bad, yes, and needed to be dealt with, yes, but not
necessarily through invasion.
\_ I hear this a lot, and would completely
agree if SOMEONE could just make a reasonable
alternate suggestion.
\_ Well, tell what your parameters are for "reasonable"
and I'll try to put one together for you. If your
definition of "reasonable" requires an instantaneous
solution, I doubt I'll be able to help you.
\_ Israel could just seize the money. Duh.
\_ It is our moral duty to oppose immoral actions on
the part of our government. It is the duty of
our government to propose moral solutions to
problems. If the only solution the government can
come up with is an immoral solution, the govt. is
not trying hard enough. Being unable to provide
an alternative solution does not justify an
unlawful solution.
\_ Hamas is not America's problem. Since when did we invade
foreign powers at Israel's bidding? Do we invade Boston
next because some Irish give checks to the IRA?
\_ Isn't Israel the 51st state?
\_ s/Israel/Puerto Rico/
\_ The fact that terrorists like the Jordanian caught with his
passport when his car bomb did not go off, along with calls for
holy warriors to converge on Iraq, should prompt 1) apologies from
the left for their lack of vision 2) relief that terrorists are
necessarily converging in smaller numbers here, given there
are not an infinite number of terrorists.
\_ Dude, I can't believe you just paraphrased the Emperor.
\_ I got your apology right here, bitch.
\_ While I certainly believe in the maxim "the best defense
is a good offense" especially in warfare, there is another
one which is even more appropriate "strategy is the art
of multiplying your allies, while isolating your enemies."
Bush's actions have succeeded in doing exactly the opposite. |
| 2004/3/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12934 Activity:nil |
3/30 English majors are all lefties!
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10762
\_ Starts out fun, but then launches into uncalled-for, irrelevant
ad-hominem attacks on authors championed by the liberal Liberal Arts
\_ No shit sherlock. It's always the dumb humanities kids who start
and take part in all the protests. Useful idiots indeed.
\_ Humanities students are no more or less dumb as a group than
engineering students. Propensity for blatant generalizations,
\_ prove it.
\_ Thanks for your comment, demonstrating that engineering
students can be just as dumb!
\_ can't prove your assertion, can you?
\_ I don't have to. The assertion that must be
proved is that humanities student --> dumb, which
is patently ridiculous.
\_ "patently ridiculous" means you have no factual
proof against the claim, right?
\_ Correct! There is absolutely no way to prove
humanities student --> dumb, its just small
dicked engineering student smug superiority
syndrome rearing its ugly head for the
zillionth time.
\_ how about entrance exam scores? or
relative performance in "neutral" classes?
or post college achievement? none of them
are perfect measures, but they would tend to
make claims of patent ridiculousness
silly.
\_ Yeah, but none of them would prove the
assertion at all.
\_ The assertion that humanities students
are dumb, or that they're no more or
less dumb? Certainly the first
assertion is the one requiring proof.
\_ by again refusing to answer the
question, i assume you realize that
while my suggestions would not
perfectly prove or disprove the
proposition, it would make your
claim of "patently ridiculous", well,
patently ridiculous.
\_ of course, you have completely misinterpreted
the post you replied to. a claim that dumb
humanities students do something does not
imply the claim that all humanities
students are dumb.
\_ Actually, the claim is that, as a group,
humanities students are as smart as engineering
students. To disprove this, you just have to
show, as a group, that one group is smarter than
the other, using some accepted metric
\_ great. what are the relative entrance
exam scores between the 2 groups? what
is their relative performance in "neutral"
classes? how do the post college achievement
of the 2 groups compare?
\_ Come to think of it, the claim is "no
more or less dumb". This implies the metric
is "common sense", not intelligence in
general. In this sense, it can be
reasonably claimed that humanities and
engineering students as groups have
similar levels of common sense (are no
less dumb than the other group).
\_ Why yes, that's pretty much what I meant.
At least someone gets it. For some
reason as soon as you say "intelligence"
some people here automatically assume
you must be referring to "ability to do
second order differential equations."
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
\_ Guy, you don't even understand that
the claim of stupid humanities kids
doing something is not equivalent to
a claim that all humanities students
are stupid.
\_ Does the common understanding of
"dumb" imply a lack of common sense?
Well, dumb originally meant the inability
to speak, as in "deaf and dumb". Does
that have anything to do with common
sense? "Dumb" came to mean, from WordNet
via dict, "slow to learn or understand,
lacking intellectual acuity". Does that
have anything to do with common sense?
Are you ascribing new meaning to the word
just to make your claim plausible?
\_ Someone please shoot this guy. His
pretentiousness is starting to make
my head hurt.
\_ Dewd, he already said sorry for not
being clear.
\_ Was he unclear? Or did he just
latch onto some non-plausible
excuse that would make his claim,
well, less "dumb"? I suspect the
latter.
however, can be found in almost any group of students. |
| 2004/3/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12921 Activity:very high |
3/30 Chen permits recount to proceed immediately, Taiwan stock market soars
http://csua.org/u/6o4 (NY Times, password needed)
U.S. forensics team talks with doctors, note openness of investigation
http://csua.org/u/6o6
Same experts discuss common misperceptions about the ballistics
http://csua.org/u/6o3
Chen comments on China's predicted hard-line move in Hong Kong
http://csua.org/u/6o5
Moron complains about Taiwan election
http://csua.org/u/6o7
\_ CSI Taipei! Was David Caruso there?
Same experts discuss common misperceptions about the ballistics
http://csua.org/u/6o3
Chen comments on China's predicted hard-line move in Hong Kong
http://csua.org/u/6o5
Moron complains about Taiwan election
http://csua.org/u/6o7
\_ Given Chen's long history as a drama queen and the very close
vote count, the opposition's peaceful and orderly demand for a
recount and investigation into the shooting incident is totally
reasonable.
\_ You should talk to the DPP college student getting beat on TV
by 4+ KMT folks for speaking to TV reporters just outside
their rally.
\_ Is that the best you can come up with for a rally of
500k people? how many people did the DPP mobs beat
up in its many rallies over the years? These days,
in many places in Taiwan, if you don't speak Taiwanese,
you can get cursed and ostracized, thanks to DPP's
divisive politics.
\_ And how many of those people (who watch KMT-biased TV
coverage) believe in the faked assassination theory?
Your dismissal of KMT's televised violence is also
disturbing.
\_ feel free to post urls of any other violent
rally incidents from the multitudes of pro-DPP
newspapers as opposed to your so-claimed
"KMT-biased TV".
newspapers.
\_ This entire thing has missed a huge point. Extremely large
number of military personnel were denied their consititution
right to vote. And it turned out that there is no legal basis
for their detention. Thus, by definition, this election
result is invalid, and thus, the legimacy of this so-called
democratic government is in question.
\_ Are you talking about Taiwan or the US?
\_ First URL, a viewpoint not well-covered by the KMT-controlled
press: "The opposition Nationalist Party on Monday publicly
dropped its demand that the Taiwan military be allowed to
vote again after a disputed presidential election a week ago...
Mr. Chen and the Defense Ministry replied that the
alert had had no effect on voting, because staggered shifts
had made it possible for the servicemen and police officers
to vote."
\_ Contrary to what this guy is saying, KMT doesn't control
the press at all. Chen and DPP is the government in
power, and has systematically moved to control the press
to silence the opposition. Just recently, the owner of
a pro-DPP press told all its employees to vote for DPP
or be fired.
\_ URL? 'Cos the same rumor mill sez the KMT drinks the
\_ This is in the news a few weeks before the
election. Go ask a few people in Taiwan and you
should find someone who've read about it. Taiwan
related news sites don't seem to keep good
archives of older articles online, so I can't
find any url, unfortunately.
blood of babies.
\_ See "Formosa Betrayed" written by U.S. vice consul
during the 2/28 incident. obGoogle. There is a
similar book called "Formosa Calling". Both are
published way back.
\_ errr .... 228 incident is 57 years ago. Taiwan's
government, while under KMT, had admitted to the
wrong doing, and had compensated families of the
victims long ago. Taiwan has been under pro-
independence presidents for the last 16 years.
yet, DPP supporters like yourself constantly need
to bring up 228 for political purposes to fan
hatred against mainlanders and their descendants,
most of whom has nothing to do with 228, or
\_ actually, I just bring up 2/28 to criticize
the KMT as a political party. I think you're
being a bit prejudiced.
weren't even born then.
\_ http://tinyurl.com/3xwo6
Search for "station". You'll find other links on google.
Like I said yesterday, the KMT has had over 50 years of
total control of Taiwan to consolidate its power.
\_ snicker ... this starry eyed russian commentator has
no clue what he is talking about. he portrayed
putin and chen as heroes of democracy. I bet he is
real happy with putin and his rubber stamp parliament
and recent election. chen of course, could not care
less about the development of democratic principles and
institutions. he will bend all rules as long as it
helps him win. the commentator also portrayed Lee
Teng-hui as representative of the big-bad KMT. He
didn't even know Lee has always sympathized with
everything the DPP believes in, and made it his
personal life mission to destroy the KMT from within.
what a joke! Of all things, you chose this
clueless commentary to post.
\_ Uh ... the point is that the KMT controls the major
TV stations, and stirs up anti-Chen sentiment in
order to get the KMT back into office.
I just want to make sure you see this.
\_ I am sorry, but if this Russian commentator is
so clueless about the above, you can't
expect anyone to accept his unsupported
assertion the Taiwan's media is controlled
by the KMT. Besides that piece of clueless
writing was from 4 years ago, kind of
outdated. I don't know about TV, but
contrary to your belief, most of Taiwan's
\_ So what would you say if I provided a URL
that showed the KMT controls the major
TV stations? Does it suffice to say that
most newspapers are pro-DPP, and most
TV stations are pro-KMT?
BTW, it was my mistake way above. When
I said "press", I meant to say "TV".
I just want to make sure you see this.
\_ snicker ... this starry eyed
newspapaers are actually pro-DPP.
\_ btw, someone broke http://csua.org/u see motd entries above |
| 2004/3/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12910 Activity:kinda low |
3/29 What does Condi have to hide?
\_ yea, she's Black, she must be hiding something..
\_ What do YOU have to hide? Why do we have that pesky 4th amendment?
\_ What did Clarke have to hide?
http://www.drudgereport.com/rc1.htm
possible news program talking about the same topic.
\_ I think the distinction here is that Clarke wasn't going on every
possible news program talking about the same topic. This is a
drudgereport flurry over absolutely nothing. Nobody is contesting
the claiming of separation of powers concerns. They haven't
subpoenaed her or any others. But members of the commission from
both sides of the aisle are urging her to come forward. The
distinction is not small. Now, if Clarke had criticized her and
the administration for doing this, that could be a legitimate
flash-in-the-pan topic, but this more of the same drudge drivel.
--scotsman
\_ She has offered to come forward in closed session. Only
grandstanding politicians are insisting on public testimony.
Specifically, Lee Hamilton said:
"But there's another whole dimension here, and that dimension is
the public dimension -- and I think the American public would
benefit from hearing Condi Rice testify under oath."
Isn't the panel trying to find out what happened? Why does
Hamilton think it needs to happen in public? Answer:
grandstanding politician.
\_ Except he is no longer a member of congress.
\_ she is National Security Advisor, i wouldn't want
her to divulge anything that might help the terrorist
alter their plans.
\_ but if it helps get Kerry elected..let the terrorist win
\_ I agree with you, but I don't see how this precludes her
testifying publicly. She's free to say, "I'm sorry, that
would violate National Security" if it comes up.
\_ no, that's exactly why it's a priviledge for NSAs
to not testify publically. |
| 2004/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12896 Activity:very high |
3/27 Clarke caught in yet another lie
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1106748/posts
\_ aka http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1106748/posts
\_ That's it, he is a Republican who voted for Gore? Is that
the best you guys can do??? What "other lie" have you caught
him in. The stench of Republican desperation is becoming pronounced.
\_ Compare his interview from 2001 and his testimony
before the 9/11 commission.
\_ The Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20071-2004Mar24?language=printer
says that Clarke claimed under oath that he voted Rep. in 200.
The MSNBC article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4608698
quotes him as saying he voted for Gore. He's lying in one of
those, obviously.
\_ I'm not even sure why we bother to point out this guy is lying
anymore it's so obvious. I don't know if he's being paid by
Democrats or has some personal vendetta against Bush, but he'll be
coming up on perjury charges real quick here I expect.
\_ I didn't realize Scott McClellan had a csua account.
\_ Dude. He registered Republican. He voted for McCain, a Republican.
Gore was not listed as a choice on Republican primary ticket. For
the Presidential election he voted for Gore. Both elections
\_ I'm not even sure why we bother to point out this guy is lying anymore
it's so obvious. I don't know if he's being paid by Democrates or has
some personal vendetta against Bush, but he'll be coming up on perjury
charges real quick here I expect.
happened in 2000. Is it really that hard for you guys to think ?
\_ Please don't bring facts into the discussion! |
| 2004/3/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12882 Activity:nil |
3/26 Stranger than freerepublic being down, the Sept. 11 commission website
can't figure out its ass from its ... ass. The published url was
http://www.911-commission.gov I checked a few days ago. There was a CNAME
pointing to 911-commission.gov. 911-commission.gov had an MX line but
no A record. I check again yesterday. 911-commission.gov is _gone_.
In its place is 911commission.gov (note the missing hyphen). They
finally have an A record, but all links on the site point to absolute
URLs at 911-commission.gov. Haven't checked it yet today. --scotsman
\_ It's obviously a BushCo conspiracy to hide the truth! Not about
Iraq or WMD or anything, but you know... the *real* truth! |
| 2004/3/24 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:12834 Activity:nil |
3/24 Clarke told reporters different story in 2002 background briefing
http://cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/24/clarke.bush.binladen/index.html
\_ Okay, now try a news source that isn't rabidly right-wing.
\_ Cnn is rabidly right-wing.. umm whatever Lenin.
\_ Sorry my sarcasm was too subtle for you.
\_ Apology Accepted. |
| 2004/3/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12801 Activity:kinda low |
3/22 All posts critical of the President will be deleted immediately.
Criticism of our Commander In Chief or the Republican party
during wartime will no longer be tolerated. -DHS
\_ so when will the war be over, so that we can resume criticizing
our CinC?
\_ Chimp in Charge?
\_ W00t!!!
\_ The struggle to preserve freedom will NEVER end!
\_ War is Peace! Freedom is Slavery!
\_ lefty troll.
\_ You're right. It's not that criticisms of Bush won't be
tolerated. It's just that you will be deemed anti-American,
an America hater, pro-terrorist, or a commie.
\_ Come on, is there an insult more anachronistic than "commie?"
You can't even use it ironically, its so tired. The RPG
Paranoia made a joke out of it in 1985. That was almost 20
_years_ ago.
\_ Why is it a troll? Everytime I put up a post critical of Bush
or any Republican policies, it is immediately deleted. I
am just stating the facts.
\_ facts fuck my ass..
\_ facts my ass.. |
| 2004/3/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12781 Activity:nil |
3/19 The assassination stunt Taiwan's president Chen pulled is kind
of like the President of the United States using his presidential
powers to stage an assassination attempt by Al Queda in a last
minute bid to win the election.
\_ Tinfoil hat time. What evidence is there that he had himself and
his VP shot? It's ridiculous.
\_ what about this claim that years ago he falseley accused
political rivals of poisoning him on TV right before another
election? Is there any basis in fact there? I'm not trying to
troll here, I'm just new to following Taiwan politics.
\_ it's totally like something he would do. he does anything
and everything to win elections. |
| 2004/3/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:12755 Activity:high |
3/19 Journalistic fraud that makes Jason Blair look honest.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-03-18-2004-03-18_kelleymain_x.htm
\_ He's a conservative, so it doesn't matter. It is only when
the liberal media fakes stories that it is big news.
\_ WTF? String this guy up. And any reporter who makes things up.
You're an idiot if you think people en masse ignore fabrications
because of ideology. - a conservative
\_ Let's see if this becomes a big story, like the Jason
Blair thing. I predict that it will not.
\_ Um, I know it will not. However, that's because a) it was
the NY F'ing Times, considered the standard for
journalistic accuracy, and b) it was the first big story
about journalistic fraud--first is always biggest.
\_ reporters lie all the time, to promote their career, ego, etc.
Journalists are scumbags just like lawyers.
\_ Is he Jewish? http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-03-19-jerusalem_x.htm
\_ What difference does it make?
\_ Well it might affect what he was thinking, like was he just
cynically latching onto any sensationalism or did he have
some other motivations. |
| 2004/3/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12713 Activity:nil |
3/17 http://csua.org/u/6gv Government officials insist that they never misled the public, and that they released in a timely manner all the information and evidence they had gathered. "We told the truth at all times to the Spanish people," Acebes said on Monday. In retrospect, however, there were signs that the government was at least selective in releasing information about possible culprits. -Washington Post \_ http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo \_ Consider, though, that there's never been a significant incident involving islamists in Spain, they have a long history of ETA bombings, and the March 11 attacks bore a lot of ETA hallmarks.) Had ETA been responsible, the PP's stance both on domestic security and its Iraq policy would have been boosted, whereas an attack by islamists would have underlined points made by the socialists--it's imaginable that this may have influenced the finger pointing, but it doesn't change what seemed pretty obvious at first glance. As for whether the socialists' victory is "knuckling under" to terrorists, that's another discussion. -John \_ I think you are being too generous here, John. The morning of the attacks, I heard someone from ETA's Sinn Fein say that they didn't do it -- he pointed out that ETA always provides a warning before they set off a bomb, and there was none in this case. And all the terrorism experts I heard said that it may have been ETA, but the MO was quite different from their past. Plus, the PP persisted in insisting that it was ETA for several days, despite mounting evidence to the contrary. \_ Point taken. Interesting you use the Sinn Fein analogy-- like the IRA, Sinn Fein is pretty fragmented since Spain & France started working together to smash them. -John \_ ETA MO is to set off a bomb and then see what the PR looks like and disclaim responsibility if the PR is negative. The ETA was stopped from setting off a train bomb just like this last year and last month was busted carting around a large amount of explosives. It was also reported that the explosives used in Madrid are the same ETA has used a lot in the past. So fingering the ETA was a good call at the time. Oh yeah, the ETA is also reported to have a new group of younger members moving into higher ranks that are much more aggressive than the original bunch. It made sense and was believable. Obviously finding al qaeda tapes, AQ agents and then a posting on an AQ web site last year saying that they could put the socialists in power if they timed it right is good evidence it wasn't the ETA but none of that was known that first day or so. \_ It was the omission of including AQ as suspects that ticked everyone off. There wasn't enough information at the time to make the call and laying blame the ETA without proof made it look politically expedient. \_ ETA was a good first guess. It was only 48 hours between the bombs and the polls opening. I think your depiction is really harsh. \_ You should really read the entire article. Then come back and post what you think. -op \_ Spain gave in to threats and voted to "appease terrorists" in the election Sunday that turned out a top U.S. ally in the counterterror war, the top Republican in Congress said Wednesday. ... "Here's a country who stood against terrorism and had a huge terrorist act within their country and they chose to change their government and to in a sense appease terrorists," Hastert said. -AP \_ And if the US had gotten more than Spain, Poland, and the UK to help police Iraq, the loss would be less apparent. |
| 2004/3/16 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12695 Activity:high |
3/16 I posted this last week, but it received no serious responses.
Does anyone have any experience/advice with using air couriers
for international travel? Is it a reliable thing to use? Thanks.
\_ what do you mean by using "air couriers"? back when I was
at cal, several of my friends travel "courier" which means
that they can't bring any check-in lugguage. the space
was sold to a courier service instead. I believe my friends
don't need to touch whatever luggage that is being
couriered at all and are not responsible for what is being
couriered. The courier company already arranged things
with the airline directly. It was many years before 911,
even though I don't see why 911 must impact this.
\_ Yes, this is the service I was talking about. Did
they share any advice/thoughts on travelling like
that? -op
\_ they seem pretty satisfied, mainly with the
price. Instead of around $900, they paid
like $500.
\_ Here are your eyes. |
| 2004/3/15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12677 Activity:nil |
3/15 Your morning dose of inanity as brought to you by the Mouthpiece:
"Terrorists are indiscriminate (as to) who they attack. They want to
spread fear and chaos," McClellan said."
\_ heh, so terrorists really want to spread joy and happiness to
specific targets?
\_ "I do not like to be beaten about the head and shoulders."
"You would prefer being beaten on the feet and knees?"
Your syllogistic logic has no affect on the inanity of the
Mouthpiece.
\_ You think that quote is stupid? Check out the right-wing
editorializing (all over the place, obUseGoogle) that the
victory of Spain's opposition party is a victory for the
terrorists. Even tho, ya know, the ruling party was the one
that backed Bush against 90% of the public and then tried to
blame the terrorist attack on ETA without any evidence.
Democracy is only good when they agree with us.
\_ Hmm, PP is way ahead in polls. Bombs go off. PP loses.
Yep! It's a loss for the terrorists! |
| 2004/3/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12669 Activity:nil |
3/15 Spain to leave Iraq, because of new government voted in as a result
of the terrorist bombings.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/15/international0736EST0480.DTL
Another Victory for the Terrorists, and an example of why they will
crush the wimpy western democracies? Discuss...
\_ Turnging and turning in the widening gyre...
\_ Sorry guys, the talking points this time are just stupid. The
Popular Party was not "way ahead in the polls." They were within
the margin of error. The bombings, and the sloppy attempt to blame
them on ETA, just pushed it over the edge. The War in Iraq killed
the PP and you guys know it. Also, the "Socialist" party in Spain
is no more socialist than the ruling parties in, say, Germany.
\_ It sounded to me like:
"It must have been the ETA"
"Why?"
"Because they're terrorists."
"But what about al Quaeda?"
"It must have been the ETA"
\_ You forgot the part where they took a kernel of truth and
lied from there. "It must have been the ETA because they
had been planning an attack to coincide with the elections,"
which is true, but the bombings didin't fit with ETA's
modus operandi, and everyone knew it.
\_ It wasn't about difficult MO. It was about the government
delaying the release of information. |
| 2004/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12355 Activity:nil |
2/22 So my carb sync measure (something that measures the
carburator suction) broke and mercury spilled on the garage (about 50
mL worth) and on my hands. I called 911 and asked if I should
be concerned and they sent 3 guys from the fire
department over in about 10 min. They looked at it, said it was no
big deal, and to just dump the stuff int the trash can. I
asked if I should put them back in the bottle and have them properly
disposed and they said it's no big deal. He even said when he was
a kid he used to touch them and play with them. Is there something
wrong with this picture?
\_ It is not a problem unless you drink it. Highly insoluble.
\_ In HS, a kid broke one and supposedly it cost the school $95 to
get some company to dispose it. It doesn't add up to $15 B in
excess, but it's there. (I'm waiting for the response about the
costs of preventative maintenance) |
| 11/23 |