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2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

2003/5/15-16 [Industry/Startup, Recreation/Media] UID:28447 Activity:very high
5/15    Related thread re: matrix 2.  Anybody else bothered by the fact that
        it takes 100+ million to make a big movie these days?  In terms of
        return on investment, the movies that produced the most bang for the
        buck are "My big fat greek wedding" and "A room with a view".
        Both returned something one the order of 600-1000% return on investment.
        \_ Yes.  I am also bothered.
        \_ Blair Witch probably returned even more. I don't care how much
           they spend making the movie, but I am bothered that the lead
           usually makes a big chunk of it for doing a small part of the
           work. --dim
           \_ You must be some kind of Communist. The Free Market ensures
              that people are paid what they worth.
              \_ Uh huh. Which is why CEOs who run their companies into the
                 ground pay themselves millions before they are forced out.
                 \_ the shareholders/board lets them do so. can't blame
                    the ceo, he's being a good Capitalist, but the boards
                    are either doing the same thing (and the shareholders
                    are dumbfucks) or they're incompetent (ditto).
                    \_ without fair disclosure, without independent
                       audit and stock analyst, how would shareholders know?
                       \_ by watching their stock price drop like a rock?  if
                          they invest in a company that doesn't provide the
                          independent info an investor needs they should find
                          another company.
              \_ for some reason, the same person who wants "free market"
                 are the also the one who want erect tariff on Steels,
                 subsidy for agrecultural products, and tax benefits for
                 export goods.
                 \_ and speling, you no thers a taks on propar speling nowe
        \_ I'm bothered only in the fact that ticket prices are skyrocketing
           because of this.  Same with baseball & other sports.  I hold
           nothing against the actors or ballplayers, because if I were in
           their situation, I'd get every penny that I could too.
           \_ don't forget concerts.  Everything is becoming a rip-off.
              what's up with those "convenience fees"?!?!
              $20 programs at concerts.  $35 t-shirts.  And expensive nasty
              concessions...  Crazy!!!
              \_ As long as we're willing to pay, they're gonna set their
                 prices accordingly.
        \_ I almost didn't like M2 the first time, but when I saw it
           a second time I turned off my brain.
           \_ It just premiered last nite, and you've already seen it twice??
                \_ The reels have been printed for several weeks.
                   If you have distribution connections...
                   \_ yeah you're a genius with the inside track, uh huh.  I
                      suspect we all have the same p2p access you have.
2003/5/12 [Science/GlobalWarming, Industry/Startup, Computer/SW/Security] UID:28410 Activity:very high
5/11    http://www.workingassets.com - just a decent phone company that puts
        money toward good (progressive) causes (for when your email to
        your congressman stops making you feel good).
        \_ Shouldn't they be giving the service free!??  Capitalist swine -
           you are a sell out.
           \_ yermom gives it out for free and she's still swine.
        \_ If they are the cheapest and give (your) money away, then this
           is great. o/w give your own money away, and get the charitable
           deduction for yourself.
           \_ the nice thing about opting for world conscious services such
              as this one is that you show market preference for that type
              of corporation ethic. other companies will clean up their act
              if they see that the conscious stick gets customers.
              \_ wow.... I didn't know people actually believed that....
              \_ Kinda like the U.N. I imagine.
                 \_ Except the UN doesn't make a profit, isn't at all 'world
                    conscious', doesn't provide real services, has no
                    competition, and continues collecting money from it's
                    'members' no matter how well or poorly it does providing
                    no incentive to improve, and has no effective means of
                    controlling either it's own members or it's own staff,
                    officers, and executives who don't ever get reviewed,
                    demoted, fired, or replaced, and is trying to take over
                    the entire world and reduce your national level rights to
                    zero.  Yeah, kinda like that.
                    \_ Except for the profit thing, this sounds exactly
                       like Microsoft!
                       \_ You think the UN and MS are in cahoots?
2003/5/11-12 [Industry/Startup] UID:28405 Activity:moderate
5/10    Who would you rather work for? A company that generates spam (not a
        legit direct marketer, but an honest to goodness spammer) or microsoft
        spam company
        microsoft
        \_ There are a lot of legal stupidity among the spammers of late.
           They've made a few major slips both legally and politically. The
           FTC hearings of late have had some refreshing displays of how
           some of these people behave.  Work for them, and you'll 1) feel
           filthy, and 2) probably get way screwed over.
        \_ The legal climate seems to be turning against spammers.  M$ seems
           more likely to be a stable job in the long run.
        \_ both involve selling your soul to the devil, but working for M$
           mean decent stock options.
           \_ stock options?  at current market value?  their stock isn't going
              anywhere.  the days of MS minting millionaires are long gone.  go
              to MS for what is probably a more stable salary.  It isn't 1998.
2003/4/15-16 [Industry/Startup] UID:28128 Activity:insanely high
4/15    I'd like to recycle my empty glass bottles of Corona beer, except
        they have lime slices in them? What do i do?
        \- residential level recycling is basically pointless so do whatever
           you want. do you think people carefully sort their newspapers vs
           "other paper"? --psb
           \_ I actually do.
           \_ No longer true.  These days China's cheap labor makes it
              worthwhile.  Big chunk of our waste gets shipped to China
              and comes back as packaging, etc. for products.  See
              recent WSJ article about how an American kid's tossed old
              homework goes to China and back.  Symbiosis of world's
              greatest waste producer and world's greatest low cost
              products manufacturer - global economy at its best.
              \- well while i believe there might be some sucessful
                 residential recycling programs, i bet the vast majority
                 lose money [in the us]. it's places like china and
                 india where *real* reclying happens ... and that is
                 recyling by virtue of reuse. i.e. people use newspaper
                 to wrap fish, they use the glass bottles things come in
                    \_ or to wipe ass. -motd resident russian
                 to store other things. you guys who feel you've done
                 pasta container are ... wel let's just say you should
                 your part for the planet by throwing stuff into the right
                 bin and then driving to create and barrel to buy a $23
                 pasta container are ... well let's just say you should
                 move to marin county and sit in your wildly inefficient
                 hottubs and say shame shame shame about all the SUV
                 drivers. --psb
                 \_ except Aluminum.  The energy cost of processing
                    virgin Aluminum from Bauxite is so huge that it's actually
                    economical to recycle.
                 \_ Partha, do you "stink of righteousness"?
                 \_ Here is the wsj article if you are interested:
                    http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/Newszine/global/5.htm
                    One thing to note is that prices for "corrugated
                    cardboard" can go from $50 to $250 per ton within a
                    few years, so that may determine whether it would be
                    economical to recycle.  Also, "lose money" does not
                    mean no benefit.  For example, I work at a medical
                    equipment company that is losing money.  That doesn't
                    mean our products are not saving lives.  Value is
                    still being added.
                    \_Lose money means not sustainable. Take some basic
                    economics. The dot-com bubble is over. And a recycling
                    system which loses money is bad, because the money
                    has to come from somewhere, i.e. industries which are
                    polluting.
                      \_ Not sustainable, yes.  But losing money doesn't
                         mean you stop working.  Similarly, there is
                         value in spending the effort to recycle even
                         if the company involved is losing money.  The
                         cost (both for the company and for yourself) is
                         mostly labor.  You may find better ways
                         to use the labor, but that doesn't mean the
                         effort is wasted.  Put it another way, when the
                         company is losing money, it may mean that your
                         pay is too high, but it doesn't mean that your
                         effort does not deserve ANY pay.
                         \_ Uhm, dude, look, if your company is losing money,
                            you need to work on your resume.  "Not sustainable"
                            means there won't be a company soon.  I admire your
                            idealism but there's no VC going to come save
                            your ass and keep you in free beer.
                            \_ It's just an example.  It's fictitious, but
                               thanks for your concern.  My real company
                               has been alternately losing money and breaking
                               even, but it is a big fat company that doesn't
                               die easily, and actually just bought another
                               company today.  I may move on soon though since
                               work here has become unrewarding.
                    \_ the medical equipment guy must still be using the
                       "new math" of the "new economy".  Haaa haa.
                    than it is to pay for landfill.
                 \_ Of course recycling is subsidized. But in the long run,
                    it's cheaper to set up recycling and lose money that way
                    than it is to pay for new landfills.
2003/3/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:27869 Activity:nil
3/26    HAL isn't moving much.  I'd think that with Cheney funneling Iraqi
        oil contracts to HAL it'd get a bit boost.  But no, the stock is
        trading sideways.
        \_ Everyone's holding their breath to see if HAL gets away with it
           or if people are going to wake up and torch HAL hq.
        \_ get away with what?  there is no other company in
           in the universe with more experience with putting out
           oil well fires after a gulf war, the present and future
           oil well fires need to be extinguished immediately,
           even if the Pentagon had put it all out to bid, Halliburton
           would have won anyway.  can you think of any other company
           in the world with enough experience for this, except
           that tiny Texas company that was in that John Wayne movie? - danh
           \_ Well, there's the Kuwaiti company that first arrived on the
              scene. --dim
              \- well some eastern european companies emerged after the
                 first gulf war, including one that moreor less strapped
                 a MIG engine to a tractor and used it to blow out (smaller)
                 oil fires. --psb
           \_ Halliburton is just going to contract it out to KRB which is
              going to contract it out to Boots and Coots.
              \_ I don't care who they sub-contract it to as long as my man
                 Cheney gets the fat check.
                 \_ I'm against all forms of government corruption but your
                    mindless ranting makes you look like an ignorant kook.
                    Cheney doesn't get a frickin penny from any of this beyond
                    his paycheck for being US VP.  He doesn't have a financial
                    interest in Halliburton or any other company now.
                    \_ Check your facts. Cheney still gets at least $1M
                       annually from HAL...and that's just what's on the
                       books. Your final sentence, though...wow...I mean,
                       there's just no hope for accountability if you really
                       believe that.
                        \_ got a url for the above?
                           \_ Cheney gets money from HAL, but it is just
                              deferred compensation from when he worked
                              there. They are paying his bonus out to him
                              over a number of years rather than all at
                              once. --dim
                              \_ don't bring facts into this.  they said he's
                                 part of some criminal conspiracy to raise
                                 the stock price so he can line his pockets so
                                 it must be so just because.
                    \_ You really believe that?
                       \_ Yes.  Prove it wrong.
                    \_ Yea, he is just helping his old buddies, so they can
                       help him back once he no longer holds the post of VP.
                       \_ Maybe, maybe not.  More likely not given his age and
                          health.
2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

2003/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup, Computer/SW] UID:27691 Activity:moderate
3/13    My company is looking for an intern.  We're a financial software
        company, and we could use some extra hands to help us gather
        content for part of our website.  It's probably going to be
        unpaid, but you could learn a lot about finance, and it might lead
        to more interesting paid work after a while.
        /csua/pub/jobs/wsa.txt, or email me for details.  -dlwhite
        \_ Do I have to bring my own cigars?  This one time at band camp....
           \_ Cigars will be provided.  -dlwhite
              \_ Sweet!  I'm going for it!
        \_ isn't there something illegal about this
           \_ why should there be? unpaid internships are the _norm_ in
              many industries, including the one most sodans are in, if you
              go back 15-20 years.
              \_ you mean they didn't always pay $80k for summer interns?!
2003/1/29-30 [Industry/Startup] UID:27237 Activity:insanely high
1/29    For those of you who changed jobs (voluntarily or involuntarily)
        recently, what was your pay?  I'm trying to get a sense of the job
        market. I heard that it has picked up, but there are conflicting
        info.  Recently == within 2 years (after the dotbomb implosion.
        same pay:
        lower pay: .
        HIgher pay:     .
        higher pay but my last job was underpaid (and I was cool with that) ..
        \_ where's the "yermom" option?  why hasn't someone added that??
                \_ This one's mom is too ugly.
        \_ 30% higher, involuntarily, but that was almost two years ago.
        \_ 101k pre-bomb, 125k as bomb was exploding, 120k very post bomb.
        \_ Higher pay because my last company was big on stock options, but
           lower than what I could have got had I been smart enough to take
           more cash.
           \_ It's a bit late to give this advice to everyone, but *always*
              take more cash over options.  There will always be more options
              from successful companies and we all know what most of the
              options grants from the last 6-7 years were worth.  I never let
              anyone tell me any bullshit about how many options I'm getting
              so they can't give as much cash.  Options are frosting.  You've
              gotta eat the cake.
              \_ I will still take the options, cause I am an optionist,
                 and a gambler, and this is America.
                 \_ I always took options.  I'm not saying I was cash only.
                    I'm saying I treated the "chat" like it was cash only and
                    *then* we discussed options as an unrelated topic like
                    the color of my chair or which monitor I want.
                    \_ I know someone who took a pay cut to get extra options
                       and literally made millions by doing so. If you can
                       make such a deal and afford to do it, it is worth
                       considering.
                       \_ It's also the exception.  I know hundreds of people
                          who got laid off.
2003/1/2 [Industry/Startup] UID:26962 Activity:high
1/2     So what can be done to try getting H1-B abusers in hot water?
        I know this company comprised entirely of Indians with a large
        proportion being H1-Bs who at this point are not provided with
        insurance. They also agree to work for free instead of being
        sent home.
        \_ One of the various California labor boards would probably do it.
           Also, since H1b is a Federal program, you can look up which agency
           runs it and contact them anonymously on the phone.
        \_ One of the various California labor boards would probably
           do it. Also, since H1b is a Federal program, you can look
           up which agency runs it and contact them anonymously on the
           phone.
        \_ Call the INS (and/or Dept. of Labor) and report what you
           know. Make sure you have some sort of evidence to back up
           your claim, since most of these places have fake docs for
           I hope that you get the greedy bastards who run that company
           stuff like insurance and pay. Also the employees are scared
           shitless that they will be arrested, tortured and deported
           \_ hmm, my only evidence is what an employee there has told me.
              getting anything more would be hard unless i could convince
              this employee to rat on them but he works there himself and
              is also Indian... I didn't get the feeling he'd do it.
              actually he didn't "tell" me, he told my s.o. who blabbed to me.
           so you can't rely on them giving truthful statements to the
           authorities.
           I hope that you get the greedy bastards who run the company
           thrown in jail. They deserve to spend sometime with others
           of their kind.
           \_ hmm, my only evidence is what an employee there has told
              me. getting anything more would be hard unless i could
              convince this employee to rat on them but he works there
              himself and is also Indian... I didn't get the feeling
              he'd do it. actually he didn't "tell" me, he told my s.o.
              who blabbed to me.
                \_ boy that sounds like reliable information
                   \_ that's the only information that would ever exist
                      in such cases. the h1b program is bs and needs to
                      be scrapped. you think they're going to publicize
                      their crimes?
                        \_ There may be emails and/or financial records
                           that contain sufficient evidence for the INS
                           or Dept. of Labor to begin an investigation.
                           If OP worked at the company he might be able
                           to gather enough information to take to the
                           authorities. In this case it will be hard for
                           him to get the information.
2002/11/6-7 [Industry/Startup] UID:26430 Activity:kinda low
11/5    Where can you find say the historical P/E and PEG of a company?
        \_ I don't think you can find this info free anywhere. Numerous
           companies sell this type of information... eg, http://www.factset.com
           \_ Damn, quarterly reports have Earning. Historical prices can
              be found at numerous web-sites (yahoo stock/business pages)
2002/10/25-26 [Recreation/Travel, Industry/Startup] UID:26321 Activity:very high
10/25   The boss instituted a 7-day vacation/sick day (combined) policy
        for those who have been working for at least a year.  He says
        most startups don't give any vacation time at all.  Is this
        accurate?  How about where you work?
        \_ My company is still a "startup". 14 days vacation + 2 sick
           days per year. Pretty standard.
        \_ This is not accurate.  Most startups give 2 or 3 weeks
           paid time off (sick+vacation) and then aim to squeeze
           seventy hours weeks out of you the rest of the time.
        \_ That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
        \_ Utter bullshit
        \_ I'm not at a startup.  I'm at a gov't research lab.  But I
           get 13 sick days and 13 holidays per year, not counting
           national holidays such as Memorial day.  --PeterM
        \_ could be true.  Maybe you are a really small startup?
           \_ We have ~ 15 on-site employees.  Around for a couple years now.
            \_ It is bullshit.  Your boss is abusing the fact that jobs are
               scarce right now.  Do you really want to work for someone who
               tries to fuck hisi employees when he thinks he can get away with
               it?
                \_ Who would?  But the sad thing is, he CAN get away with it.
                   Bloody damned economy.  Irrational exuberance can bite me.
                   \_ The only reason he can get away with it is because
                      of apathetic, low self-image developers (and H1B's).
                      The market is bad, but it's not THAT bad.
                      \_ what safe secure hole have you been in?  or do you
                         rewl?  It *is* THAT bad
        \_ well that depends. Are you a H1B? If you are, ALL YOUR BASES ARE
           BELONG TO HIM. H1B have no legal grounds to sue and have no basis
           for complaint. It's the best cheap hitech labor.
           \_ Nonsense.  Civil complaints can be filed by anyone regardless
              of nationality.  Some courts will charge extra large filing
              fees for nonresidents, however.
              \_ That doesn't mean you will win.
        \_ we had FIVE weeks vacation at my last job... a start-up.
           of course, this was ~2 years ago.
        \_ Any URLs for vacation/sick policies (I looked on google) for
           startups?  If we assume he's not trying to screw people, the
           boss is a Type A personality who thinks everyone should work as
           hard as he does.  He thinks we should all work really hard and
           be proud when we succeed as a company -- instead of all acting
           like a bunch of 40hr/wk overpaid ingrates.
           \_ This sort of expectation is extremely unprofessional for any
              except a small cadre of founding members -- and even then it's
              borderline.  Very few people are in industry strictly because
              they like to work really hard.
           \_ "Proud" as in "wow, that's swell, have a piece of cake and let's
              get back to work" proud or "here's a nice big bonus and take a
              few weeks off" proud? Personally as I get older, I find better,
              more gratifying things to do in my life than cubicle work. What
              good is it to be successful if you can't enjoy life? And Allah
              help you, if have a family or get into a relationship. Your boss
              is trying to make you feel guilty for making money AND maybe
              trying to enjoy life at the same time. 'Sup to you to take
              it or leave it. Here's the best way to look at it, if the person
              of your dreams asks you to spend a long weekend in Tahoe and
              you can't do it because you had the flu in January, your life
              officially sucks.
        \_ Generally speaking, US sucks in terms of vacation days.  Europe
           and even countries in Asia are much better.  They get like 30
           days of vacation.  I only get a measly 13 days (not including
           sick days though).  It's because US has an anal retentive
           pilgrim's calling type of twisted work ethic.  However, I must
           say that your case is especially bad.  I think you are being
           bullied and exploited.  You should kick your boss.  Darn!  It's
           almost 8 p.m. Friday, why am I still at work?  Must be because
           I am a H1B slave.
        \_ Look, you are being exploited.  You know you are being exploited.
           Otherwise you wouldn't have posted to the motd.  Now if you just
           let this guy fuck you, you are a pathetic tool.  And to sit and
           whine about how the economy is os bad he can get away with it is
           not a solution.  First do you really want to work for someone who
           is going to treat you like shit any chance he gets?  I mean do you
           need the money that bad?  Do you have kids?  House payments?
           There are other jobs out there.  But if you don't want to quit
           you could actually talk to the guy about it.  Ask the other people
           at the company if they feel the vacation deal is fair.  If they
           don't ask them if they will back you if you make an issue out of it.
           They don't have to say anything, jsut sign something, or stand
           behind you when you make a case to the boss.  Then go in, and
           actually talk to the guy.  Don't be aggressive but don't be
           apologetic in any way shape or form.  Let him know you and the
           others are unhappy and that you want or more reasonable vacation
           policy.  That simple.  Chances are it will work.
           \_ The first half of your post is bang on.  But the idea of
              approaching management this way is unrealisitic at best -- this
              is something that is highly dependant on the work environment
              and the people involved.  Odds are, unless the OP is VERY
              charismatic, no one will back him when it gets real -- and
              dealing with an A-personality boss like this is only likely to
              get you classified as either a slacker, a troublemaker, or empty
              noise.  I've seen this happen before -- the 'shop-steward'
              approach is almost pointless in the vast majority of work
              environments.  If your company has an HR person or a sympathetic
              senior exec, you're better off working thru them than trying to
              start a half-assed revolution that's more likely to get you
              pushed out (shitty work assignments, blatant disrespect, etc).
              Don't get me wrong, communication is good -- but start with
              proper channels of communication before you escalate to direct
              confrontation.  Direct confrontation + junior level of
              employment is a really bad mix.              -mice
        \_ I have worked at four startups: the worst had 15 days PTO
           and nine holiday days a year, the best 11 holiday days, five
           days sick and three weeks vacation. -ausman
2002/9/23-24 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:25978 Activity:low
9/23    Can someone explain this?  GMGC filed for Chapter 7 last Wednesday, yet
        its stock is still being traded and it even went up 67% today.
        \_ The bankruptcy filing means that the assets are going to be
           liquidated soon, instead of sitting around indefinitely.  The
           stock probably went up in anticipation of possible recoveries
           from the asset liquidation proceeds.  "67%" is a little
           misleading -- it went from 3 cents to 5 cents.
           \_ But the mere fact that it went up at all puzzled me.
              \_ 2cents.  background noise.
2002/9/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Startup] UID:25865 Activity:high
9/12    What some ex-dot commers are doing:
        http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=209303
        \_ What's really funny is that, bust or no, a lot of my fellow
           contractor/consultant friends decide to drop out and do "hey-
           I-have-a-life-to-lead" sort of things, like go learn a language
           and grow wine or whatnot, even though they are thoroughly
           employable, and could still be doing fairly lucrative consulting
           work.  Not many people I know who work for large organizations as
           permanent employees take that option, usually because of some sort
           of fear of the uncertain (these are generally single, young,
           without kids, educated.)  I wonder whether it just has something to
           do with the way some people look at work (entrepreneurs vs.
           employees) rather than "oh, he failed, now he's a slacker".)  -John
           \_ They _say_ they can be doing lots of exciting and well paid
              things but _choose_ to grow wine and attend community college.
              Sounds more like sour grapes to me.  "I can be successful anytime
              I want but I'm gunna grow grapes!"
                \_ No, these are people who've turned down contract
                   extensions.  Job situation in Europe isn't quite as bad as
                   it is here.  Maybe just an early midlife crisis :)  -John
                   \_ Jobs here aren't that bad, it just isn't as golden as
                      it used to be.
                        \_ That's nice to hear--most people I speak with give
                           me the impression that it's pretty grim, even for
                           high-end IT professionals.  -John
        \_ I like the guy who is going to Harvard Business School *after*
           running his own company into the ground. Way to go! --dim
           \_ Hey!  He's got experience now!
              \_ Yeah, so why go to Harvard?
2002/8/11-12 [Industry/Startup] UID:25537 Activity:insanely high
8/10    I can't take it, telemarketers keep calling when I get home from work
        or on weekends (I can't (*@#&$( get a good Sat/Sun sleep). What's
        the best way to get rid of them? Does DMA really work? How long will
        it take from the time you filed with the DMA till telemarketers stop
        calling? Is DMA a scam where they actually sell your # to others?
        \_Can't you get one of those devices that kill the call before
        you pick up? Do a web search. Have no idea if they work.
           companies, no banks, no one. It's under my roommate's name so I
           don't get calls that way.
        \_ Probably too late for you but ... when I moved, I never gave my
           phone number to any commercial organization. No credit card
           companies, no banks, no one. They get my work number only (and for
           who knows what reason, telemarketers don't call work numbers?
           maybe it's part of their honor code.) The home phone is under my
           roommate's name so I don't get calls that way. And I've never
           had a telemarketer call (2 years+).
           \_ telemarketers sleep when you're working so that they can call
              you at an inopportune moment at home.
           \_ I get telemarketer calls at work.  This sort of "stealth phone
              number" thing is the same as trying to hide your real email addr.
              from spammers.  We shouldn't have to work so hard to be left
              alone.
        \_ *Always* tell them "remove my name & number from your call lists"
           and hang up.  You'll slowly get rid of the worst of them.  I had
           some stupid CC company calling 4 or 5 times a day until I finally
           just answered it, waited for a person to get on the other end, told
           her to fuck off and remove my name, she grumped, I hung up, and
           never heard from them again.  They're required to do so by law and
           the fines are huge.
           \_ I've been doing this, and I think it has reduced my phone spam,
              but certainly not eliminated it.  Once when I said "I'd like to
              be taken off your list," the response was "that's too bad,
              isn't it.  <click>"  So you might want to be sure you get the
              company name before you ask, if you want to follow up on
              such things.  -tom
              \_ That's always what happens to me. I ask "who is this?" and they
                 always just say "I'll try back later bye" or something.
                 But this whole "opt-out" idea is such total bullshit. All
                 marketers should be required by law to have proof that you
                 opted-IN to be allowed to market through mail and phone.
                 With all other forms of ads you get something in return for
                 having to see the ads. This is a failure of democracy that
                 EVERYBODY hates spam but we can't get rid of it.
            \_ Yes, this works well: "Please put us on your do not call list."
               but if you really want to ensure compliance, get the name of
               the company and write it down. You can sue for about $1500
               ( I think) if the same company calls back within a year or two.
                \_ Correct, but it's only $500 and doesn't require a lawsuit.
                   Once you request to be put on the do-not-call list, they
                   have 2 weeks for your name to be circulated around their
                   call centers; after that they cannot call you.  If you want
                   to be a bastard about it, you record company name, address
                   (to send them your complaint if they call back) and the
                   caller's name.  If they pull that "sorry, I'll try later"
                   bullshit, you hang up, call the operator and get the
                   calling number, then file a complaint with the police for
                   harassing phone calls.  Simply saying "take me off your
                   list" won't work because they get fresh lists every so often
                   and your name will be back on it.  Sometimes the scummy ones
                   will fuck with you when you say "put me on your do not call
                   list" and say, "you want us to take you off our list?"
                   Those are the rats that I make stay on the line with me and
                   give me their full name, company name, address, and manager's
                   name.
                   \_ Ok so is there something better than just telling them to
                      remove me from their list?  You talk about calling the
                      police and stuff but how about something permanent?
                      \_ Yes.  You get the name, address, and company of every
                         telemarketer that calls you.  Write it down.  Date it.
                         say, "Put me on your do not call list."  The
                         do-not-call will keep that company from calling
                         you.  It's permanent.  Do this for 2 months, and
                         the rate of calls will drop off.  Remember-- the
                         do-not-call list is something you WANT to be on.
                         Saying "take me off your list" does nothing.
                      \- How about just saying "can you hold on a second?"
                         and just leaving the call off the hook as you go
                         back to whatever you were doing? What do they do
                         then? --psb
        \_ junkbusters has a good site on this:
           http://www.junkbusters.com/telemarketing.html
2002/7/26-27 [Consumer/CellPhone, Industry/Startup] UID:25425 Activity:nil
7/25    Donate your old cellphone: http://www.donateaphone.com
        \_ My company has a phone drive for this several months ago and
        \_ My company had a phone drive for this several months ago and
           collected more than a hundred phones.
2002/7/8 [Industry/Startup] UID:25299 Activity:high
7/7     So nobody has any experience with going from full-time employee to
        contractor?  I'm going to post my question on various message boards
        on the net and see what I get.  I'll summarize the responses here if
        I get something interesting.  Thanks.
        \_ Did it, but not directly to the same company.  Also, I'm not
           very familiar with the way US jobs function, but being able to
           pull that sort of thing off here really depends a lot on both whom
           you know, and whether you've done a very good job when you were
           permie--word gets around.  The lack of perceived job security (as
           if there is such a thing) and routine (not the work itself but
           the trappings, like having the same desk every day) was tough
           to get used to.  -John
        \_ I'll bet the answer is still that no one has been that foolish.
        \_ From my experience in HR/recruiting, employees who go from FTE
           to contracting at the company are really just arranging an 'exit
           plan.'  With rare exception, anyone who does this is sending a
           message that they are moving away from commitment. --chris
           \_ What's it mean if the company wants the change?
              \_ As notice period is short in the US, it probably means
                 they want to cook their books a bit differently--contract
                 and permie salaries go on different accounts/budgets in most
                 companies (fixed vs. variable costs or something.  -John
           \_ does the op really mean doing this transistion w/in the same
              company? after readint the post I thought he meant FTE at
              some co. to contractor elsewhere or in general.
              \_ oops, i interpreted the post as "within the same company" -- i
                 have a friend who's trying to do this right now, and it's
                 tough going on a perception level.  i myself have gone from
                 FTE to contractor at a _different_ company -- not too hard,
                 it's mostly a mindset change. --chris
        \_ Legally the company can not let you go from FTE to contractor with-
           out a waiting period.  This is for the employee's protection.  Not
           for the same company.
           \_ What if both parties agree on it?  -John
              \_ No.  That's the point of the law so a company can't force a
                 FTE into an hourly contract and fuck them over.
        \_ Finally some responses!  I meant going from FTE to contractor in
           the SAME company.  I like this company and I like my boss.  I just
           don't give a damn about stock options or medical insurance.  I
           have not been sick in four years, so any medical insurance I get
           is the high deductible hospitalization kind.  And it's cheap.
           And I also want to take full advantage of the tax shelters with
           being self employeed.  Thanks for all the responses so far.  This
           is useful.
           \_ Illegal.  You need a 6 month gap between your last FTE paycheck
              and your contract start date.
                \_ Been there done that. Not illegal. Wanna cite a reference?
           \_ It can be tough. You have to do all your own billing, insurance,
              taxes, etc. You should charge at least 30% over what you make
              now. You might see if you can find a consulting company that
              will do all of the overhead stuff for a mimimal cut. Your
              tolerance for paperwork must increase. Remember the magic
              phrase "You don't get paid unless you bill hours. And then
              they have to approve the billing." Beware of traps of working
              unapproved (and thus unpayable) overtime, unobtainable goal
              and deadline payments, and sheer overwork.
2002/7/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:25293 Activity:high
7/6     I have a full-time position at a large company.  I'm thinking of
        asking them to turn me into a contractor so that they can pay
        me more and NOT provide any benefits.  Has anyone done this or
        heard of anyone who have done this?  Note that I'd be an independent
        contractor and not going through any agency.  I'm wondering how much
        more I can get by becoming an hourly contractor.  I heard companies
        actually save money because they don't have to pay me any medical
        insurance and such.  Thanks.
        \_ Don't count on keeping more money - taxes will be higher and you'll
           have to find insurance on your own at higher rates than the
           company's group rates.  Plus, whenever times are tight, contractors
           are usually the first out the door.
           \_ Also, not sure if this is just my company or if it's law, but
              contractors can't stay more than 3 years. They have to leave
              the company for 3 months before contract can be renewed.
              \_ Not the law, really, but due to a finding against m$
                 by a bunch of long term contractors who sued claiming
                 they were denied stock options.
        \_ I know lots of people who have done contractor->employee, but
                none who went the other way.
2002/7/5-6 [Industry/Startup] UID:25285 Activity:low
7/5     I used to check out Datek's services and commissions before.  For
        whatever reasons, I ended up choosing TD Waterhouse; I think it was for
        the local branches around the Bay Area, reasonable commission, and
        security of it not going out of business soon.  A friend just
        reccommends Datek to me.  After checking Datek's homepage, I think
        $9.99 for limit market orders, $11.24 for limit option orders, plus
        free real-time stock price streaming and real-time charting(?).  Anyone
        has any experience and/or comments regarding these two services?
        \_ Kinney, is the motd a part of your network?
2002/4/20-21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:24507 Activity:high
4/19    (Soon to Be) New Grads, get any offers yet? How much? Who's hiring?
        -- '99 alum
        \_ Yes.  Mid 70s.
           \_ Startup? Big Company? Bay Area? That's more than I'm making...
              \_ Startup.  Bay Area.
        \_ only interest from Bay Area start-ups thus far... no formal offers
           yet (two pending). what should I hope for/expect?
        \_ Yes. Low 20s. Grad school.
        \_ What startups are hiring?  Where'd you find their names?  Most of
           the ones I see publicly posting job ads are total bullshit.
           \_ What about defense companies? I've seen positions targetting
              0-2 yr experience at defense company web sites. -another99alum
              \_ I've talked to people that worked at defense companies for
                 20+ year careers.  Their jobs are very unsafe.  Less so than
                 at some random large corp.  Once a project ends the engineers
                 all get axed and need to find a new project.  End = completed,
                 cancelled, on hold for extended period, etc.  And they say
                 the pay was nothing special.  Plus lots of hassles with
                 security stuff which makes sense given who the employer is.
2002/2/27 [Industry/Startup] UID:23985 Activity:very high
2/26    After getting a programmable Kinesis keyboard, a <DEAD>humanscale.com<DEAD>
        tray, installing (and getting trained) Dragon Naturally Speaking,
        I am finally back to work. All this, paid by my company. My advice
        to yall is to use your company's resource to the max  -Mr. RSI No Mo
        \_ Like the Enron employees?
           \_ No. That was the opposite situation where the company used the
              employees to the max.  How exactly in your twisted little mind
              did you decide this was in any way Enron related?
              \_ Err ... perhaps you should read about all the parties
                 the employees had, all the luxury hotels they stayed
                 in, the free vacations given, the first class plane
                 tickets, the waterford crystals they get on Secretary's
                 Day, etc.  Many of them knew the company isn't making any
                 money, yet they stayed and took advantage of all the
                 benefits.
                 Day, the $100 bills left on their desk, etc.  Many of
                 them knew the company isn't making any money, yet they
                 stayed and took advantage of all the benefits.
                 \_ yeah that really cost a lot compared to the golden
                    parachutes.
                 \_ You mean the EXECUTIVES who got all that shit?  The typical
                    employee got a paycheck and the shaft.  And if you believed
                    everything you read you'd also know that *every* 18 year
                    old within 50 miles of San Jose made $35m in the 95-99 era
                    and no one worked and everything was a big party and we all
                    owned multi million dollar houses we bought in cash and
                    oh yeah, hey wait, none of that shit was true, it was just
                   resources to the max", like Mr. RSI suggested,
                   except that, being a small fry, Mr. RSI's max
                   is much less than theirs.
                    the morons in the press over generalizing 1 or 2 incredibly
                    rare stories across 500,000 people.
           \_ How do you define "the company" and how do you define "the
              employees"?  That is the real question you are debating. I
              would argue that in the case of Enron, the people doing the
              coniving were the highest up exec's and thus "the company".
              "The employees" all lost their retirement plans and were
              screwed.
                \_ Yes, but they are simply "[using their] company's
                   resources to the max", like what Mr. RSI suggested.
                   \_ Say what?
        \_ boys and girls, the moral of the story is to abuse your company
           before it abuses you, except of course, if you're in top
           management. But usually it works the other way (Mr. fry is too
           nice to use his company's resource and Mr. CEO abuses Mr fry)
           \_ The moral of the story is that just because someone else is
              doing something wrong, doesn't mean you should also do it.
              Every criminal can use that as an excuse.  When you abuse
              Every criminal can use that as a lame excuse.  When you abuse
              your company, you are abusing your co-workers and
              investors which likely include old ladies and their
              retirement savings.
              \_ I don't think the employer paying for this person's keyboard
                 and software is an abuse of the company.  They're just taking
                 that as part of the employee's cost.  It'll come out of his
                 next raise, current salary, next bonus, or somewhere else
                 eventually (his severance if they go under).  Nothing is free.
2002/2/12 [Industry/Startup] UID:23841 Activity:nil
2/11    There is a piece of electronic equipment I need, but the company
        will only sell to another company.  Does anyone have a company I
        can "subcontract" (use as a front) to buy it?  It isn't illegal.
                - raytrace
        \_ Rachel!  hullo.  i think a number of sodans are incorporated.
           I think jwang is.  ping him, or ask on wall. --scotsman
                \_ i'm not incorporated. but i am disenfranchised. --jwang
                    \_ disenfranchised?  does that mean you were convicted
                       of a felony?
2002/2/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:23783 Activity:insanely high
2/5     I'm a sysadmin. Made a house-call to fix CEO's wife's computer.
        She already did a great job of troubleshooting so there wasnt
        much for me to do. Instead I came up with a simple alternative
        that worked. She was very thankful and now sent me a Fry's gift
        certificate for a couple hundred dollars.  Is this too much money?
        What should I do? Just send a thank-you card? Or decline it and say
        I was just happy to help and was just "doing my job"?
        If kept, I will spend it on something my colleagues will also enjoy.
        Please give any advice, motd.
        \_ Thank you card.  It's annoying to have your gestures of thanks
           declined.
           \_ thanks for helping confirm this for me.
        \_ Is your CEO using company resource for personal need?
           \_ she's a big part of his continued success. if he does well,
              the company does well and so does my job and stock do well.
              Anyways, I had to go out there to check on other things.
        \_ Return the gift and ask for sex instead.
           \_ Only if she's hot.  Is she?
              \_ She's hella hot. No sex.
        \_ I'd send her a thank you card, use the money to buy something,
           and not talk about it to others.  You might want to mention it
           \_ Seconded.
           to your CEO, depending on what kind of guy he is.
           \- thisisthecorrect advice. this probably isntthat much for a
           ceo and family.
        \_ Split the gift money into two halves. Buy yourself something nice
           with one half and a gift for your CEO with the other half..
           \_ That is just weird.
        \_ Nice!  I can see it now.  "Dear PCWorld forum...."
        \_ Buy her a nice sex toy as a thank you.
           \_ With a Fry's gift certificate?
              \_ One of those vibrating joysticks?
        \_ It is *not* part of your job to do house calls.  I've done house
           calls because it was clear that if I didn't I'd be looking for a
           new job.  Unless it says so in your contract, house calls aren't
           included.  Think I'm being a dick?  Who is liable if you get
           injured?  Slip on their floor?  Get in an auto accident?  The
           insurance company won't cover you for worker's comp. You're fucked.
           Take the gift, send a nice thank you to her and don't tell anyone
           else about it.  Don't do it again if at all possible.  The 'gift'
           is not a gift. It is payment for your work as a consultant.  Don't
           do any weird shit like splitting it and buying a gift for them or
           mentioning it to the CEO or anything else.  You're nice but very
           naive.
           \_ You bring up some good points I did not think about. I think it
              is part of my job even though it's not written down anywhere
              I set up their computer systems at this home. I also helped
              with their home down south (flew on a jet).
              \_ So they paid you extra/bonus/OT/whatevr for being their
                 personal compupet setting up their computers and home networks
                 all over the country?  This isn't your job.  You're being
                 taken advantage of.  Let's compare.  I'm the admin at an
                 online place in the Bay Area.  I work less than 8 hours a day,
                 I don't visit homes, I don't do windows, I don't fill out
                 time sheets, I don't kiss anyone's ass, but I do report to
                 stupid people (can't have it all) and I make a lot more than
                 $100k.  The parent company is 50+ years old, stable, private
                 and will never IPO but I'll have this job as long as I can
                 stand it.  Which job would you rather have?
2002/1/24 [Industry/Startup] UID:23646 Activity:nil
1/23    Has anyone heard of a VC company called Pantheon Ventures?
        Know anything about them?
2002/1/22-23 [Industry/Startup] UID:23631 Activity:high
1/22    How much does Stanfurd's "Honors Cooperative Program" for MSCS cost
        per year if your employer doesn't pay for it?  Thanks.
        \_ each class is $900/unit. You need 45 units. Most companies pay
           $5000-6000/year, which means 6 years. HCP is part time, NOT
           WORTH IT. Do full time.
           \_ Thanks for the info!  But I can't do full-time since I need the
              paycheck to feed myself and pay for the mortgage and support my
              parents.  -- !rich kid
        \_ For NDO option, its 900/unit.  If you are taking the HCP classes,
           it bumps up to 1,100/unit. Not quite the Cal tuition, but its
           pretty nice to be able to have a mortgage, family, etc... and go
           get MS.  I'm starting a job in 2 weeks, and I managed to get
           an offer that included 4 years of 6,000/year stipend.
        \_ the CO-OP program requires your company to sign and recommend
           you to the program.  I haven't seen the detail, but I thought
           that implies Stanford will charge your dept of your company,
           and that they may not accept payment from student.  That was
           the case with NDO.  Besides, your company must be a "member"
           company for SITN....
        \_ full time work at a high tech company, and part time study
           at Stanford (assuming you want grades better than B's) means
           virtually no life for you.  Unless you don't have that right
           now.
2002/1/18 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:23594 Activity:high
1/18    PPRO: it's a $1 stock with a 52 week high of 31.34 and a low of .37.
        The P/E is negative, EPS is negative.  Sorry but this dog don't run.
        \_ why do we care?
           \_ because someone is running a script every 20 seconds to get
              15 minute old data on this POS and it's your machine too.
        \_ At least it still hasn't gone belly up.
        \_ And this is different from every other stock because...?
2002/1/8-9 [Industry/Startup] UID:23499 Activity:high
1/8     I have a domain with networksolutions.  I want to xfer it to another
        company because they're quite expensive.  What is the procedure?  Do
        I initiate the xfer from the new company or from network solutions?
        Also, can somebody recommend a good company?  Thanks.
        \_ the other company
        \_ http://dotster.com has been good to me. i switched from netsol a while back
        \_ http://www.gandi.net  12 Euro/year, unambiguous dispute resolution
           policy--I have two domains with them and they are really un-
           complicated about transfering from another registrar.  Also see
           http://www.domainnamebuyersguide.com  -John
2001/12/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:23338 Activity:moderate 72%like:23336
12/21   Need a job?   /csua/pub/jobs/Transmeta/ReliabilityEng
                --jeffwong
        \_ deal with ditzel much?  got any knife wounds in your back to show
           for it?
        \_ I didn't see it in the posting, so sorry if I'm missing something
           obvious, but... is this a start-now kind of thing, or should I
           apply if I'm graduating in May?
           \_ We'd rather not wait until May, but finish that degree.
                                                --jeffwong
        \_ What's transmeta's financial health look like these days?  The
           newspapers were all over problems with shipping, etc, etc, bad
           quarterly results, etc.
           \_ We have a lot of cash in the bank, at least enough to run for
              another year, even if we sold nothing.  (which I highly doubt
              will be the case.) --jeffwong
              \_ You think you are going to sell stuff (I mean other than
                 your office furniture)? Wow.
                 \_ TMTA already sells stuff (although mostly in Japan...)
                    \_ Not enough to save the company. They will probably
                       make more money from the office furniture auction
                       than from product sales. But what more would you
                       expect from http://YAOH.COMLSU (Yet Another Over Hyped
                       .COM Linux Start Up)?
                       \_ Uhm, Transmeta makes microprocessors. It has
                          NOTHING to do with .COM or Linux.
                          \_ Transmeta's cpus are primarily used on
                             linux systems. And they are underpowered
                             even for that application. The qualify
                             for .COM status because they were yet another
                             "tech" company that went public on hype
                             rather than on substance (sales/profitability).
                             \_ Wrong. They are primarily used on m$ systems.
                             \_ And .COM refers to companies that try to
                                use their website as a focal point of their
                                services or people trying to sell hoaky
                                "e-services". .COM doesn't refer to
                                microprocessor companies.
              \_ I just looked at the profile for Transmeta on Yahoo
                 finance.  According to it, Transmeta has $262.8M cash.
                 Its market cap is $243.7M.  That is NOT promising.
                 \_ So they are obviously undervalued.  Go out and buy some.
                    \_ The value reflects the fact that there is no
                       value in the company besides the cash.
                       \_ They have patents that are worth something.
                       \_ They have Linus who is worth something.
                          \_ hm, how much would MS pay TMTA to "get rid of"
                             Linus?
        \_ I interviewed at the place next door a few months ago.  Nice
           parking lot but driving in was a bitch.  Too many streets between
           there and the freeway.  Ugly, car packed streets.  Hey, someone
           else said your market cap was lower than your cash-on-hand.  Can
           I buy your company, liquidate and pocket the difference?
           \_ chill out.  jeffwong has done nothing more than listing
              a job opportunity in a different job market. BTW, if you
              are thinking about buying Transmeta, you only need to control
              the board, which requires a little more than 50% shares.  Let
              us know if you do plan to buy it.
                \_ yeah how mean of me to tell anyone where the place is or
                   hint at their financial condition.  no one should be
                   allowed to know these things because the truth is really
                   really mean and hurtful.  where's my shovel?  i need a
                   hole in the sand to hide my head in because ya know if i
                   can't see it and don't know it, it must be ok!!!  i dont
                   plan to buy it but i might place a bid on a few of the
                   pentium based computers the office staff use.
                   \_ and you assume any Sodans who may interview there
                      can't figure out themselves and not smart enough to
                      make a career choice?  And your sacrastic tone isn't
                      helping anyone making a sane decision.  It was how you
                      said it, not what you said, since anyone who can look
                      at the ticker TMTA can figure out their financial status.
                      \_ Just saving them the effort.  I guess if you're
                         currently jobless then it doesn't matter if you get
                         laid off in 6-9 months because some money is better
                         than none until the economy turns around.  Please
                         accept my sincere apologies going out to all laid
                         off sodans.
        \_ I need a long term job.
        \_ "Via One-ups Transmeta".  See slashdot story for details.
2001/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Industry/Startup] UID:23017 Activity:nil
11/12   America's most hated man: Osama bin Laden
        America's most hated woman: Carly Fiorina
        \_ why is Carly a bitch? Explain...
           \_ and why is she getting more flak than, say, McNealy. I mean,
              her company is still in the black, unlike Scotty.
              \_ Because McNealy hasn't done anything nearly as stupid as
                 attempting to buy out Compaq.
              \_ Strong women are always hated by weak men.
                   \_ Here comes the feminazi crowd.  No, dear one, when she
                      first got the job, everyone in industry applauded.  Now
                      that she's fighting hard to destroy the same company,
                      everyone is coming down on her.  Welcome to the real
                      world of meritocracy: good stuff for doing good, bad
                      stuff for doing bad.  I think you can understand that.
                      Pick up a newspaper and put down the psycho babble
                      pseudo literature.  You'll learn more from the business
                      section.
                      \_ Don't lie, you always hated her.
                         \_ No I had barely heard of her before she took over
                            but since I wasn't a shareholder I didn't care. I
                            _do_ recognise that her takeover plans are idiotic
                            and it has nothing to do with her gender.
                      \_ As an employee, I strongly sided with her in the
                         first year. She seemed to be making the right moves
                         and morale climbed. Now, well, it feels pretty shitty
                         around here.
                \_ BC she's working at hard as she can to destroy the company?
                   \_ Second that.  Compaq is the company of death.
2001/10/23-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:22808 Activity:high
10/23   Say you do business with company A, and company A sells your address
        to company B.  Is there anything that prohibits company B from selling
        your address to company C?  What I'm wondering is that: if I ask my
        mortgage company to stop selling my address from now on and if they
        indeed honor my request, is it really going to reduct the junk mail I
        get given that it already has sold my address to someone else before?
        \_ When it comes to mortgage companies selling your info, I suggest
           that you give up.  You're getting a low rate because the company
           is small and they sell the mortgage to a bigger company.  And
           they also make money by selling your mortgage information.  That's
           how they can stay in business.  If you don't like that, walk into
           a citibank or wellfargo and deal with them directly.  You'll get
           higher rates but they won't sell your info.
                \_ wrong, you'll get high rates AND they'll sell it, unless
                   you tell them otherwise in writing at the outset. --aa
        \_ mortgage info is 'public information' and just about anybody
           can get it.  its not a matter of them selling it.
           \_ Then why would someone be willing to pay Citibank and Wells
              Fargo for that info?
2001/10/21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:22787 Activity:high
10/19   They are laying off 5 people in my group within the next two
        weeks? Don't know who yet, they won't tell us. What should I do
        in preparation?
        \_ How many in your group?  Work on your resume.  Start your job
           search now.  Don't wait to get axed.  If you have, uh, "special
           access", abuse it and read HR and Finance's email to see who is
           on the black list.  BTW, you're not the person from a few months
           ago posting that his startup was the one going to make it but who
           refused to post the url, are you?  The one who thought that only
           slackers get cut in layoffs and good people are always retained?
           The one who thought that only bad companies with all bad people go
           under or can't get VC these days?
           \_ No, that was me.
              \_ Hi, you!
              \_ are you a homosexual?
                 \_ Are you Aspolito?  If not, why do you care?
           \_ Yeah, got my resume and will probably take vacation before
              the job search(but already know what companies to go for).
              I was asking more about "other" preparations. Never been
              have "special access".
              laid off. Anything I need to do, at work? Actually, I do
              have "special access" but I'm trying to resist. 25 in group.
              \_ make sure you can collect unemployment.
              \_ At times like these you have to protect yourself.  Knowledge
                 is power and all that.  Under normal circumstances I would
                 say don't do it but you need to know.  Go read their mail.
                 Don't get caught.  And whatever you do, don't *ever* tell
                 *anyone* you did it.  As far as "other" things you can do,
                 there's not much non-job-search related things to do.  You
                 might want to look into opening a roll over account for your
                 401k if you have one and do the 30 seconds of research looking
                 into health care costs if they don't extend your health to
                 more than the end of the month.  Basically, just get your act
                 together financially.  Don't make any big purchases.  Even
                 if you don't get cut this round, you might get cut 3 months
                 from now if you're in a public company (the next financial
                 quarter).  And whatever happens, DON'T TRUST THE BASTARDS!
                 Everything you're getting told may or may not be true and
                 you'll only be told things that benefit the company if you
                 believe them.  Figure out the real deal on your own.  And
                 seriously, best of luck, the job market is really tough right
                 now.
        \_ usual common sense stuff.  archive your files.  clean up your
           mail spool.  sanitize your files.  remove your personal objects
           from the office.  basically make sure there's nothing left that
           might embarass or incriminate you later.
           \_ Careful cleaning out your physical space.  You don't want them
              thinking you're all set to get axed and do you instead of
              someone else.  Bring home anything expensive or of personal
              value but leave up all the calendars, posters, doodads and
              other crap you won't miss.  Don't make it look like you already
              got chopped.  Perception is reality and all that.
2001/10/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:22773 Activity:nil
10/18   Anyone here have recommendations for a title company? (or warnings)
        Anyone rate shop recently?  Advice on doing so?
        \_ I used Chicago Title very recently and I found them to be pretty
           good. It was around $1,500 in fee. I think most title companies
           charge around the same amount, depending on the value of your
           transaction, of course. I seem to recall a title company that
           awards airline miles but I'm not sure if they still do this.
           I've also heard good things about North American Title. - jthoms
2001/8/31 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:22308 Activity:moderate
8/31    please buy some stock today.
        \_ Why?
          \_ because they are oversold - someone else
2001/8/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Startup] UID:22207 Activity:moderate
8/21    what's the correct agency to contact when a person/company
        wont pay me for work done?
        \_ The Board of Shait Cunts.
        \_ California State Labor Board.
        \_ How much money is it? If its enough and the company is
           big enough you should threaten to sue. You can probably
           work out a good settlement, perhaps for more $s than
           just back pay if you get the media involved.
           \_ Threaten to sue or bring the subject up with the State Labor
              Board. If you take it to the Labor Board, it will take time
              to get your money, but the company will be forced to show
              their pay records of all employees affected by California
              state taxes. This is NOT an idle threat. Be sure you ARE
              right, otherwise the company can countersue for harrassment.
        \_ why don't you tell us fellow sodans which person/company is it?
           \_ send the Soda Brotherhood after them
              \_ There is no secret cabal of daves.
2001/8/16-17 [Industry/Startup] UID:22143 Activity:high
8/16    Anyone has experience with a company called Orlando Promotions
        (http://www.orlandopromo.com  I got an unsolicited flyer from them via fax,
        which lists a corporate discount vacation package that's very cheap.
        I want to find out if I can trust the company or not.  I can't find
        the company in http://www.bbb.org  Are there any other similar organizations
        that warn the public about bad businesses?
        \_ http://www.bbb.org
           \_ Thanks, but I said I couldn't find it in http://www.bbb.org
              \_ Oh yeah, sorry about that.  Maybe they are OK.  Just google
                 for them or something...
        \_ If it is too good to be true, it almost always is.
           \- there is a news group like ba.consumers you can try, as well as
           the travel newsgroups. i would yuse google and google groups.--psb
        \_ you moron, you are the reason we all get spam, don't respond
2001/8/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:22099 Activity:kinda low
8/13    If an employer overpays one of its employees by mistake, what option
        does the employer have, legally and not so legally? --ricky
        \_ For direct deposit, most employers will simply ask the bank to
           deduct the extra amount or they will just nullify the transaction.
           If the employee has already spend the money or doesn't have direct
           deposit, most employers will simply work out an arrangement with
           the employee to give out smaller paychecks until the extra amount
           is "worked off". In cases where the employee leaves the company
           before the amount is refunded, the employer can hold up options
           transactions and/or sue in court.
           \_ Can you please give believable circumstances where the employee
              has rights to the money?  That's what we pay you for.
           \_ What if they paid out too much for the bonus of some sort and
              didn't realize it for 30 days, 60 days, 6 months, etc.  Isn't
              there some kind of time limit for them to correct it under the
              law?
              \_ There is a limited amount of time for the employer to "recall"
                 the payment. After that period the money is yours. If you are
                 still working for the company and want to continue working for
                 them its probably in your best interest to give the money back
                 (or at least a significant percentage of it). If you have left
                 the company, they may still ask for it back provided the amount
                 is large enough. You don't have to give it back, but it is in
                 your best interest to work something out, because if they sue
                 you, it will probably bankrupt you to defend yourself.
        \_ http://www.goodthink.com/$$tablecontents.html
           Story of cashing a junk mail check with references to statutes of
           limitations.  -linc
           \_ My god, this is hilarious.  Thanks for the link!
2001/7/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:21853 Activity:nil
7/18    Hey, my company is on http://fuckedCompany.com and i can't
        even read about it! Somebody wanna help out a fellow
        geek who's company is down on their luck?  I need a
        login with the ability to read rumors. -phuqm@onebox.com
        \_ Gee, that would be illegal "theft of services" or
           something, since you have to pay to read that stuff.
            \_Gee, you have obviously mistaken me for someone
              who gives a damn.
2001/7/11 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Uncategorized/Profanity, Industry/Startup] UID:21764 Activity:nil
7/10    Found out my X-company is a "C corporation", not an LLC.  does this
        mean I'm up shit creek when they go bankrupt? - <DEAD>X-.com<DEAD> founder.
        \_ If they go bankrupt, they can't pay you.  What's wrong with that?
           \_ other way around, i'm worried that incurred debt could be
              charged to me.
        \_ http://4inc.com/compare.htm . Shouldn't you have asked all these
           questions of the attorney that helped you incorporate? --dim
                \_ each column contains the word "are not normally liable
                   for the debts of the corporation".  relax.
2001/7/10 [Industry/Startup] UID:21752 Activity:moderate
7/9     I founded a startup 1.5 yrs ago.  I have prefered stock in it,
        but have since gone back to school and left the enterprise with
        some business vultures.  They are currently teetering on the edge
        of bankruptcy.  Can I be liable for any of this?  I have officially
        left the corporation since Feb.  I realize the motd isn't the
        official place to air this out, but I had to start somewhere
        non $500/hr.  Should I get a lawyer?
        \_ Hello Adjectivity founder.
        \_ sounds like a gamer luzer
2001/6/22 [Industry/Startup] UID:21599 Activity:very high
6/21    Anybody in a startup right now?  How is it like?  layoffs and money
        running out?  I keep getting calls from startups and I'm wondering if
        I should leave my cushy job to risk it all.  Thanks.
        \_ make sure they pay cash.
          \_ up front.
            \_ and ask for 2 forms of ID
        \_ wait till market gets better?
        \_ Some startups still have plenty of cushion, but do not approach
           them with the same attitude one would do in 1999 (i.e. the infinite
           cash supply, etc.) Other than that, I still believe startup
           companies with clear business model and non-mediocre product still
           shines.
        \_ this is the best time to be working for startups. come on, what've
           you got to lose?
           \_ your stable job that you had before.
        \_ Depends if they have the right product people and processes.
           If they do, then it may be worth it (but that's the case even
           when the economy is "good")
        \_ Slightly off topic, but what recent startups have actually become
           established companies (ie, you wouldn't call 'em startups anymore
           and they actually are stable).
           \_ In this market, no startup (new or otherwise) is stable.
        \_ In a nutshell, here is what you should consider before going to
           work for a startup:
           1. How much cash do they have, and, given this, how long can
              they survive with NO FUNDING and still pay your salary.
           2. How much will they pay you?  Stock is NOT a substitute for
              salary.  That said, due to the incredibly poor market
              conditions, you should be able to get more stock because
              of it's (perceived) decreased value.
           3. Make it clear that, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, will you take
              a pay cut, or lower your salary for more stock after you
              are hired.  It is the responsibility of the management
              to budget for your salary for the forseeable future.
              If you are hired at rate x now and the company tries to
              decrease your salary to some value y < x, you are being
              cheated.
           4. You will not IPO in the next 12 months, the market is too
              bad right now, no company with sane management would even
              consider it.  More likely, you will not IPO in the next
              24 months.  Beyond that, the outlook is hazy.  Worst case
              scenario, the economy will continue to suck for the
              remainder of the Bush Reich.  Greenspan is a miracle worker,
              but improving the economy during the Bush presidency would
              probably constitute vulgar magick, and result in a paradox
              backlash.
           4.
           5. VCs are being pretty tight with money now, but they have
              a tremendous amount from the boom.  Don't be fooled into
              thinking that the recent downturn has put a remotely
              significant dent in their coffers.  In their typical,
              brain dead herd mentality, the in thing to invest in are
              companies that are stable, profitable, and show potential
              for significant long-term growth.  This is in contrast to
              the earlier herd philosophy of invest in any company on
              this internet thing and tell them to splurge money to get
              big really fast, and then figure out how the hell to turn
              a profit.
              When evaluating companies to work for, think how the
              current VC herd mentality flavor of the month will
              influence their prospects for being funded when they
              need yet.
           6. VCs are generally dumb.  They make money because VC
              investing is more or less high-stakes gambling where the
              odds are incredibly in their favor.  If you want to see
              empirical evidence of how clueless VCs are, read up on
              the debacle that is arsDigita.  Keep in mind that the VC
              firms that invested in aD are some of the top firms out
              there.  If you can join a company that can sustain itself
              so it does not need VC funding, so much the better.
              That said, the one thing that the incredible amount of
              money and clout some VC firms carry can help with is
              taking a company public.  But, as point 4 mentions,
              that's not happening any time soon.  Also, the less
              your company actually NEEDS a VC stake, the less the
              VCs can devalue your stock, and munge the operations of
              the company.
            Anyway, hope this helped.
           [ Paolo's drivel deleted. ]  Get a clue.
             \_ Hi fucknut.  Remember, I, unlike you,have the balls to sign
                my posts.  Do you think I'm going to bother to give advice
                about this topic?  What would be the point of me arguing
                with the landed gentry of the motd? - Paolo (who knows there
                are only 5 people who actually really post on this forum)
           \_ What do you mean by stable? Stable like IBM or stable like
              HAND? --dim
           \_ Riverstone and Juniper
2001/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Startup] UID:21595 Activity:nil
6/21    I've just found a version of emacs vc that supports ClearCase:
        ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/cc-vc, but it's dated 1996.  Does anyone know
        of a newer version?  Thx.  -- yuen
        \__http://www.ultranet.com/~esler/ccase-mode
2001/6/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:21509 Activity:nil
6/13    Thanks for the stock option advice.  I take it the consensus
        was that it was unusual for the company to be able to repurchase
        all your stock at exercise price when you quit.
2001/6/13 [Industry/Startup] UID:21499 Activity:nil
6/12    As of ruling by the CA gov't, not paying salaried (exempt) workers
        during a company shutdown is not allowed.  For all of you discussing
        forced vacations, I found the link describing the situation.  It's an
        open letter issued by the Division of Labor Standards Enforcment for
        the state of California:
        http://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSE/SalaryTestUnderNewOrders.pdf
        Quote from letter:
        "..if an employer has exempt salaried employees, those employees must
        generally be paid in any situation where the employee is ready, willing
        and able to work and the employer does not provide work.  Failure to
        pay the salary of the exempt employee will result in loss of the
        exemption.  The employer may not, faced with this obligation to
        continue the salary, resort to the employee's vested vacation pay (an
        obligation which the employer already has if the employee is to remain
        exempt from overtime pay)."
        -phale
        \_ Here's an LA Times article on the matter:
           http://www.latimes.com/business/20010609/t000047972.html
        \_ what if it's put to the employees like this:  "Take your vacation
           then or we'll lay you off. --PeterM
           \_ what if it's put to the employer like this: "Don't make me take
              a vacation or I'll sue you"?
              \_ What if the employer in return simply say "Ok I won't.  I'll
                 just lay you off then."
                 \_ you can still sue. just like "give me a bj or you're fired"
                    \_ Really?  Isn't it that for firing the employer needs
                       to show that the employee has done something wrong,
                       whereas for layoffs an employer doesn't need to show
                       any fault on the employee's part?
                       \_ no...for example if they lay off old people just
                          because they're old, those people can sue, and stuff.
                          \_ I see.
                 \_ Ironically, if they immediately lay you off, they still owe
                    you the amount of money for your vacation days, paid in
                    full.
                    \_ This isn't ironic, they already allow for these
                       payouts since they are always counted under Liabilities.
                       Thats the whole reason to force vacations, to
                       decrease this liability.
                    \_ Yeah, but if they don't lay you off immediately, they'll
                       still owe you the same amount of money for your
                       vacation and they'll have to keep paying you salary.
                       Plus you'll accrue even more vacation.
        \_ the way it was explained to me, it was very much in my
           personal interest not to lose my exempt status.
           I think it had to do with not being able to keep stock options.
           Anyone more familiar with this?
           \_ That's BS.  Perhaps it's company policy to give stock options
              only to exempt employees.  But if a bunch of exempt people turned
              non-exempt and still worked their typical 60-hour work weeks, the
              company is absolutely fucked.  Can you say "double your salary"?
           \_ Besides, it isn't YOUR choice to become exempt or non-exempt.  If
              the company has a work shutdown, and they don't want to pay your
              salary, the HAVE to make you non-exempt.  It's THEIR choice.
           \_ These discuss a bit about why its unlikely you'd get
              options as an non-exempt employee.
              http://www.bizforward.com/archives/2000-06/viewfromthehill
              http://www.morganlewis.com/wp11299.htm
                \_ Yes, but if an employee already has options, then this does
                   not really matter.  So make a long story short, if a company
                   actually makes an exempt employee non-exempt, they are
                   really fucking themselves.
2001/6/13 [Industry/Startup] UID:21498 Activity:very high
6/12    Are stock option "repurchase plans" normal?  I have an offer
        from a pre-IPO startup, where my options expire 90 days after I
        leave the company.  The repurchase plan says that the company
        has the right to "repurchase at exercise price" (i.e., take away)
        all my stock if they haven't gone IPO by then.  Is this common? i.e.,

        (1) I work for three years and leave the company.
        (2) I've exercised every option I got as soon as it became available.
        (3) The company hasn't gone anywhere yet.
        (4) The company elects to buy back all my stock at the same price
            I paid, + 10% interest. (i.e., I'm even)
        (5) The company hits it big six months later and I have no stock.
        \_ Read it again.  Normally companies have option to purchase
           back unvested shares that you have exercised at the exercise
           price.  Anything that's vested belongs to you if you want it.
           \_ "The Company shall have the right to repurchase any or all
              of the Shares acquired pursuant to the exercise of this Option
              following the termination of the Optionee's employment.
              The Repurchase Right may be exercised by the Company at any
              time during the period commencing on the date of termination
              of employment and ending 90 days thereafter."
              \_ This is not typical of startup companies. Make them
                 change it or take your skills somewhere else.
              \_ Cool, so I can fire you right before the IPO, and won't
                 suffer any of the share dilution your options would've
                 caused.
              \_ YANAL
                 \_ "YANAL"=?

              \_ Thanks.  Has anyone heard of this sort of deal before?
2001/6/12-13 [Reference/Tax, Industry/Startup] UID:21490 Activity:moderate
6/12    Where do employees get W-2s next January after a company closes down
        this year.
        \_ Possibly from the accounting firm or payroll company, but even
           if not you can petition the IRS to allow you to state your own
           earnings and tax contributions. They may not even audit it. I'd
           save your latest payroll stubs in case they do. --dim
2001/6/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:21407 Activity:high 60%like:22238
5/31    What's a good Bush stock to buy?
        \_ Hooked on Phonics.
        \_ hustler?
        \_ fluor-daniel.  They're building 1 outta every 3 new powerplants
           in the nation.
        \_ Invest in Denial.
           \_ Denial is policy. - the Smoking Man
                                      \_ Cancer Man
                                         \_ The Cigarette Smoking Man
                                            \_ Tracheotomy Man.
                                               \_ Radioactive Man.
                                                  \_ Particle Man.
                                                  \_ Fallout Boy.
                                                     \_ Nucyular Man.
                                                        \_ Commie Mutant Traitor
                                                      Anti-Capitalist Man _/
                                                Clueless Man _/
              \_ Denial is a river in egypt you fool.
                 \_ New, improved Denial: a policy _and_ a river in Egypt.
2001/5/31-6/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:21398 Activity:high
5/31    My company has raised the lab temperature from 70 to 84. If I get a
        heat stroke, can I sue the company?
        \_ Damn, you are one whiny little bitch aren't you?
        \_ You must be a frail little creature to get a heat stroke at that
           temperature. I feel sorry for you.
        \_ if you have computer's in there. raise the temp some more and blow
           em up
        \_ Your company is just trying to help reduce electricity usage.
           \- ^help reduce electricity usage^cut pge bill
              \_ actually, that's not exactly true. we have to curtail usage
                 or we get blackout. here, they just conducted a drill where
                 they reduced company wide energy usage by 30% within 5 min.
                 \- you have to cut use because your company agreed to do
                 so to get cheaper rates. the marginal extra load doesnt
                 contribute significantly to blackout probability ... unless
                 perhaps you are intel or an aluminum company. ok tnx
2001/5/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:21374 Activity:low
5/30    Wanna go to JavaOne? A small company needs people to man their booth.
        /csua/pub/jobs/Jinfonet
        \_ should've said: "Wanna be a monkey at JavaOne?"
           \_ Yeah... well... you get to go. And you get enough cash to cover
              a few movies... and you get some free food and drinks... and you
              get to meet the booth babes. What are you looking for? A
              technically stimulating job at a trade show?
2001/5/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21236 Activity:high
5/10    I've been having a hell of a time finding any summer jobs.
        Is anyone here hiring programmers for the summer?
        \_ Unfortunately not. I've been trying to push our company
           to hire a few interns this summer and its almost impossible.
           No one wants to spend money on *anything* including interns.
        \_ No.
        \_ shit is tough right now, I've been looking as well...
        \_ Think, "dotcoms bomb, programmers everywhere".  Kid there are so
           many unemployed and underemployed coders out there with years more
           real world experience than you that you should forget about any
           sort of technical job this summer and just find a nice beach.  In
           fact there are plenty of very talented and highly skilled people
           out of work right now willing to take almost anything.
              You just can't admit to yourselves that you are not that bright.
           \_ Stupid dotcom programmers everywhere.  I don't know a single
              intelligent programmer who is having a hard time finding work.
              The last time smart people had problems with work was 1930s.
              \_ I think it has less to do with how smart the person is and
                 more to do with how "on the money" the company itself is.
                 if the company is a loser, it doesn't matter how "useful"
                 you could be because you're expending your smarts on stuff
                 that really doesn't matter to the people paying the bills,
                 which is ultimately the customers. Of course, it's harder
                 to get a job at a good company because you're competing
                 against the other smart people. And obviously, this is
                 because smart people look at the business plan and don't
                 go work for a loser. Ergo, dotcommers are NOT smart. QED.
                 I guess I just contradicted myself. Whatever.
                  \_ Yes, it's easy to use 20/20 to say what was good and what
                     was bad.  If I was employee #1 at Netscape or Yahoo or
                     others I'd be a genius, right?  No.  There's a lot of
                     luck involved.  Research and business plan examining only
                     goes so far.  If it was that easy, then every business
                     plan would be a success as no one would ever have a bad
                     plan.  You're not making sense.
                     \_ Well, Netscape had a crappy business plan; they were
                        a stock only company. I for one never saw anything
                        to it, it was clear early on that the value of the
                        browser was only strategic; since Netscape didn't
                        have anything to leverage the browser with it was
                        pointless. Yahoo is a decent company because they
                        actually have a business model and are useful.
                        But it's a web site; they don't need armies of
                        developers. Most of the failed dotcoms were hyped
                        bullshit and many people said as much at the time.
                        \_ Netscape was selling the server, not the browser.
                           You *could* buy the browser but that wasn't their
                           point.  Yahoo is just a web site?  You've never
                           actually looked at all the different shit Yahoo
                           offers, then.  Go look around their site at all
                           the services (whether you find them personally
                           useful or not) and tell me that doesn't take a
                           lot of coders to write and maintain?
                           \_ it was the browser that had the value. since
                              they didn't take advantage of it when they had
                              the chance, i attribute it to poor management.
                              those "servers" obviously weren't demanded by
                              the market. the browser was; but it doesn't
                              make money on its own. i guess it's true that
                              microsoft killed them, but then who didn't see
                              that coming once IE 1.0 came out. as for yahoo,
                              it's a portal, they are a good one with a large
                              customer base, but that business model just
                              doesn't support a big overhead. how many is
                              "a lot" of coders to you? most of it looks like
                              monkey work.
                              \_ How many is "an army of developers" to you?
                                 This is all beside the point. The front office
                                 girl at NS retired a multi millionaire.  Was
                                 she a genius or she just get lucky?  The point
                                 being that you can't *know* for certain if a
                                 small company will make it until it's all
                                 hindsight and the post-analysis geniuses crawl
                                 out from under their rocks and claim they knew
                                 it all along.
              \_ Yes, you rule the universe.
                   \_ No, but we are smarter than you.
                        \_ No, I'm certain you rule the universe.  Afterall,
                           it's a fact that anyone who ever worked for a
                           company that did layoffs or went out of business is
                           a no-talent moron, right?
                           \_ You are making a clumsy strawman, no wonder you
                              can't find work.  No, smart people get laid off
                              too, but unlike mediocrities like you, they can
                              easily find another job.
                                \_ I didn't make the strawman.  Just rewording
                                   the one that was already there.  And because
                                   I know you're concerned, I'm gainfully
                                   employed.  Thanks for showing concern.  Are
                                   you one of the academic employees here who
                                   mistakenly believes that skilled people
                                   always easily get a new job and lesser
                                   talents don't?  The world isn't like that.
                                   \_ No I am not, I am merely a programmer
                                      who was not laid off (because I was
                                      actually useful to my company).
                                      \_ Silly boy.  A lot of programmers who
                                         are useful to their companies got the
                                         axe.  No one is immune.  You honestly
                                                         \_ I am immune.
                                                            \_ Only if you
                                                               work for a
                                                               company of
                                                               one and maybe
                                                               not even then.
                                                --------------/
                                                My company is an obvious
                                                counterexample (60).  The basic
                                                point you seem unable to
                                                comprehend is, despite what
                                                managers tell you, in times of
                                                belt tightening the fat, not
                                                the muscle, gets eliminated.
                                                If you were eliminated you
                                                were not useful.  If you are
                                                still working, you are useful.
                                                End of story.  Stop
                                                hypothesising (incorrectly)
                                                about the possible state of
                                                my company, or else continue
                                                sounding the fool.
                                                \_ 60 people?  You work for a
                                                   tiny blip of a company and
                                                   think your company is immune
                                                   to the economy and the
                                                   marketplace?  I've seen
                                                   perfectly good people get
                                                   axed at several companies.
                                                   You're fooling yourself if
                                                   you think your tiny little
                                                   speck of a company is some
                                                   magical wonderland immune
                                                   to a bad economy, management
                                                   mistakes, overhiring,
                                                   changes in the market which
                                                   make your product/service
                                                   obsolete or unnecessary or
                                                   any of a million other
                                                   causes of company downturn
                                                   and layoffs.  Is this your
                                                   first job?  You sound a lot
                                                   like my friends who thought
                                                   their first job was magic,
                                                   too.
                                                   \_ My first job sucked.
                                                \_ If times get too tight
                                                   even you will go.
                                                   \_ Sure, along with the
                                                      whole company.  This
                                                      will happen if we have
                                                      another 1930s style
                                                      recession, then it will
                                                      suck for everyone, even
                                                      smart people.  Right now,
                                                      however, only idiots are
                                                      let go.
                                                      \_ That's all I ment
                                                         by the statement
                                                         that no one is
                                                         immune.
                                                      \_ 1930s was a depression.
                                                      \_ What's the name of
                                                         this special place you
                                                         work for (currently)?
                                                         I'd like to judge for
                                                         myself how long you'll
                                                         have a job.
                                                         \_ I ll know in a year
                                                            if the company
                                                            succeeds.
                                                            \_ *laugh*  Not if
                                                               you get laid off
                                                               first!
                                                               \_ No way!
                                         think the people doing the cutting
                                         even know who the hell you are or that
                                         you exist as anything more than an
                                         employee number, a title, and a number
                                         on their salary spreadsheet?  You'll
                                         figure it out one day.  No one
                                         important at your company knows who
                                         the hell you are or gives a damn.
                                         \_ Everyone important knows who I am.
                                            It's not a large company, of
                                            course.  Stop hypothesising
                                            (incorrectly) about the possible
                                            state of my company, or else
                                            continue sounding the fool.
                                            \_ URL, please?
              \_ Not quite.  The large number of idiots currently in the job
                 market make it harder for employers to spot the worthwhile
                 job applicants.  Also, many companies are currently under
                 hiring freezes, which make it more difficult for them to
                 hire worthwhile people when they *do* identify them.
        \_ Kid, I hear the mall is hiring.  Try Mrs. Field, they're always
           hiring.
                \_ And think of all the free cookies you and your friends can
                   get.  Since your friends won't have jobs either, they'll
                   really appreciate the free cookies.
                \_ In Portland all my friends had retail food jobs.  Rent was
                   very low (less than $300) and we never had to buy food
                   due to our network.  Our rent may not be low here, but
                   remember it pays to make lots of friends and always give
                   out free things if you can afford it.  It will help you
                   through tougher times.      -brain
        \_ It's a good summer to do research and take summer school...
        \_ I'm hungry. Go make me some fries.
           \_ I'm not just making a burger. I'm making your burger.
        \_ go work in las vegas.
        \_ Those fishing boats up in AK might hire.
                \_ Slave labor is always available in good times and bad, yes.
2001/4/16 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21001 Activity:nil
4/16    Games dot com is a luz3r company. Those who joined and stayed till
        now, are the stupidest of all.                  <DEAD>-fuckedcompany.com<DEAD>
        \_ That's pretty danged stupid! -redneck
2001/4/15 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:20982 Activity:moderate
4/13    So if I tossed about $1500 bucks as a pure gamble into a $1.5 stock
        in October and today it's about 12 cents and they announced on Friday
        that the CEO is resigning and this is just before they release their
        earning report does Motd Wisdom consider this a buying opportunity
        when it drops to 3 cents on Monday?   -loves runons
        \_ No.
        \_ Whether it's a buying opportunity depends on the prospects of
           the company.  Inexpensive is not the same as cheap.  -tom
          \_ Sounds like a buying opportunity to me!  Buy more shares, lose
             more $! -oj
             \_ % more $!
                Missing filename ("less --help" for help)
        \_ Read http://www.fuckedcompany.com/archives/search.cfm?search=webvan
           before buying more of WBVN.  They are up to their head in debt,
           and will go bankrupt making your stock completely worthless.
        \_ 12 cents? How many shares do you have to buy to equal the
           commission you'd have to pay?
        \_ there are special rules in the tax code regarding worthless
           stocks.  This is a good chance for helping your taxes!
        \_ A carton of milk purchased from WebVan or 100 shares of WebVan:
           which will be worth more money in 2 weeks?
2001/3/17-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:20825 Activity:insanely high
3/16    http://Adjectivity.com is hiring java programmers full time
        paying with stock and stock options. email zen@adjectivity.com
        \_ stock AND options?! why not sal and ary?
           \_ How are my shares in Confederate Slave Holdings?
           \_ salary is 2500/mo but with stock options which are
              potentially worth millions!
                       \_ Only in the wallpaper business.
              \_ after tax i hope and bimonthly
              \_ 2500/mo? I hope you mean Pounds and not $s.
              \_ jesus, I think grad students make more.
                        \_ You think wrong, working on campus that is
           \_ one can only hope that they get bought out. isnt their
              cto leaving?
              \_ yeah. but [ajani,njh]@csua are staying.  They like it!
                 \_ are they going to play best 3 out of 5 UT deathmatch
                    to see who's going to be CTO next?
                    \_ CounterStrike not UT
              \_ this means new hires have better chance at
                 moving up the ladder and taking leadership roles!
                 \_ YASWUUE (Yet Another Startup With Underqualified
                    Undergrad Executives). Woo Hoo!
                 \_ Then why not start up your own company: then you can
                    be President, CEO, Chairman, COO, CFO, CTO, and CIO
                    That's really moving up the ladder. Good for the resume.
                    \_ We already discussed this on the motd last year.
                       Big title at small company means nothing. MTS at
                       Sun or Staff Eng at Cisco is much better for your
                       resume than VP of Eng at a small startup with no
                       technology.
                       \_ No shit. Are you being sarcastic? I think we were.
                          \_ Its getting harder and harder to tell who is
                             being sarcastic and who is actually an idiot.
                             I've taken to treating every comment literally.
                       \_ Not necessarily.  It depends. --jsl
                          \_ This was not jsl.  Do not put jsl's name on my
                             comments no matter how minor a comment.  -- !jsl
        \_ just to clarify, that was $2500/month cash + stock options
           (additional)
           \_ Cold hard cash, with real $ bills, or via check?
              As a show of faith you should pay with real $s, since
              no one can really be sure your checks won't bounce.
           \_ Even UCB custodial staff make more than that per month.
              And they get a guaranteed pension and job security.
           \_ Hey, cool, where do I sign up?  I can't wait to take a $100k/yr
              pay cut.
           \_ That wouldn't even cover my current federal withholding, and
              I claim 3 allowances.
                \_ Yeah but think of the 500 options you'll get that in 4
                   years will be good to wipe your ass with... once.
2001/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:20786 Activity:high
3/14    Who knows anything about Aiken's new startup? Email me. thx. -sameer
        \_ Mail Aiken?
           \_ I'm looking for the inside story dumbass.
                \_ Duh.  And who better than Aiken to give it to you?
        \_ Some dumbass deleted my post. Are you asking about Digital
           Integrity or a different startup?
        \_ is this similar to MOSS?
           \_ If this is referring to Digital Integrity, then yes.
        \_ Widom is hot.
2001/2/7-9 [Industry/Startup] UID:20533 Activity:low
2/7     Volunteers wanted!  gotCOM is a family computer program  providing
        equipment, training and mentoring in disadvantaged West Oakland
        neighborhoods.  We need mentors to be paired, one to one, with the
        families to provide a personal, supportive connection while the family
        is making an initial adjustment to being computer users. The mentoring
        commitment begins in late February and continues until mid-October.
        After attendance at initial training sessions in March and April, the
        mentoring consists mainly of telephone and e-mail contact.  Please see
        <DEAD>www.gotcom.org<DEAD> or contact preston@mofo.com for details. --max
        \_ cool company. how many stock options, and when is it going IPO?
           \_ He said volunteers. no options you troll.
                \_ 10k options for each family adopted.  IPO sometime in the
                   next 12-15 months you ignorant wanna-be troll.
2001/1/22 [Recreation/Computer, Industry/Startup] UID:20402 Activity:high
1/22    berkeley needs a page like this:
        http://ic.www.media.mit.edu/people/gilberte/Startups.html
        \_ There's already a place like this. It's called
           http://www.fuckedcompany.com
        \_ take a closer look. i'd be ashamed to work for most of these
           companies.
2000/12/21 [Industry/Startup] UID:20146 Activity:high
12/20   Is the safeway strike over?
        \_ There never was a strike against Safeway.
                \_ Umm, the teamsters strike??
                   \_ If you're talking about the strike against Summit
                      Logistics, yes that's over.
                        \_ Yes. The company that has only one customer:
                           Safeway.  It was a Safeway strike no matter how
                           you want to redefine it.  It's just a shell company
                           run by Safeway.  I'm anti-union but I'm not blind,
                           run by Safeway.  I'm anti-onion but I'm not blind,
                           or stupid and I don't delete other people's posts
                           because they say things I don't like to read.
2000/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Industry/Startup] UID:20082 Activity:moderate
12/12   This may sound wierd but is there a way for a program compiled
        with the -g debugging option to examine its own stack frame?
        I once ran a program that, whenever it crashed, did an automatic
        backtrace on itself and dumped it to stderr.
        \_ ~mconst/src/gdbcall will let your program run gdb commands
           (like "backtrace") on itself.  --mconst
        \_ another toy, that helped destroy, the elder race of man.
        \_ You can do this in assembly, catch an exception and simply
           check your stack register and walk all the way up
        \_ How about catching SIGBUS, dumping core and then running gdb
           backtrace on the resulting core file.
2000/12/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:19976 Activity:insanely high
12/01   Salary poll (not counting contractors)
        \_ How many times have we had this poll?
        \_ How many times have we had yermom?
                \_ Poll: Too many times
                         Never                                  .
                         We need to have another poll like this
        < $60000
        $60k - $70k
        $70k - $80k     .
        $80k - $90k     ...
        $90k - $100k    .
        > $100k         .
                ;-)
        3.4M    fresh out of college 98, IPOed 2 years ago.
                \_ are you for real?
                \_ paper money?
                \_ Well, if he got out in 98, he probably has vested
                   and cashed out half of his options already.  lucky bastard.
                   \_ Let's see.  He got in 98 as entry level.  NOt likely
                      he got too many options especially at IPO time.  Unless
                      the price is very very high (~$400-$800).
                \_ how many options did you get? i only got 8000 , 2k for first
                year...
2000/11/28-29 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:19935 Activity:insanely high
11/28   Is it better career-wise to have an inflated title (Senior Architect)
        at a company full of unqualified idiots or a regular title (Java
        Engineer) at a company that knows what it's doing?
              \_ My mom was called a Analyst by the Gov. for 13 years. She
                 wrote the AI's that help fighter planes takeoff and land
                 from carriers and that make sure the shuttle's booster tanks
                 are functioning correctly.
                 In the long run, if you know your stuff, it doesn't matter
                 that you are called a Analyst or a NOCMonkey.
        \_ "Java Engineer". I've got to add that to my list of oxymorons.
        \_ I dunno. Would you be more impressed by a Member of Technical
           Staff from Bell Labs or a Senior VP from http://dogfood.com? Different
           people will answer that question differently. Which one do
           you want to be?
              \_ how about "programmer" at Bell Labs? You know that's
                 Kernigan and Pikes designation.
           \_ how does Member of Technical Staff compare with Senior
              Software Engineer?
                \_ "manager".  "director".  And prefix with "senior" to make
                   it a total of 4 more.
              \_ Well at sun MTS is lower than SSE, so I'd rather be
                 SSE. - MTS at sun
        \_ Senior Architect isn't a very high ranking title.
           \_ What tech titles are above that besides VP Eng and CTO?
                \_ Depends on the size of the company. I was offered a job
                   as a chief architect in a startup and I would have reported
                   directly to the CEO had I accepted their offer.
                   [moved. -motd continuity god]
                \_ "manager".  "director".  And prefix with "senior" to make
                   it a total of 4 more.
                   \_ Plus "lead". Though it depends on whether you want
                      to and are good at managing people. If you want to
                      build things, stay away from management. If your
                      skills are getting rusty or you are ambitious, go
                      for the manager title. There are also the extremely
                      rare posistions like Sun Fellow, which allow you
                      to do whatever you want.
                      \_ Cisco had Distinguished Engineers and Fellows,
                         which bascially ment you did what you wanted.
                         One fellow was also PostMaster for a time. I
                         think that Tony Li was a fellow also. Now being
                         known as Mr. BGP, that's a good title. I'd like
                         to be known as Mr. <Major Internet Protocol Here>.
                         \_ Mr. ICMP Echo Request.  Mr Ping to his friends.
        \_ career-wise: inflated title, no question.
           This is based on assuptions derived from the fact that you
           are asking this question in the first place.
           Impress people who actually matter: the second one.
        \_ whatever pays more and as long as you feel justified in what
        you are doing to earn that title, then be happy, if you feel your
        title is too low to reflect your importance, then leave or ask for
        higher position. (or more money to compensate - but money never really
        does)
        \_ are you inSANE???? tell me that $200K a year wouldnt compensate
           for having "NOCmonkey" on your business card.
           "never" should almost never be used.
           \_ there can still be emptiness felt, even the richest people feel
           empty at what they are doing..
              \_ Yeah, but in 5 years, they can AFFORD to do something
                 "meaningful, yet penniless"
                \_ I don't.  -Rich&Full
                  \_ maybe for now, but in a few years.. you'll want something
                   more... everything we do is chewing bubblegum.. the flavor
                   runs out.. hopefully not before we die.
                   \_ Maybe you're sitting on your ass, patting your head,
                      rubbing your stomach, chewing gum, and watching the
                      market tank.  I'm enjoying life.  -R&F
                      \_ which for you apparently involves getting in silly
                         discussions on the motd.  wow.
                         \_ Gosh, I guess.  And for you involves getting in
                            silly discussions on the motd from _work_?  I do
                            what I want, went I want, how I want, report to
                            nobody and answer for nothing.  Your pointed
                            comments are damaging to my poor self esteem.
                            Please stop before I hurt myself or something.
2000/11/28-29 [Industry/Startup] UID:19926 Activity:kinda low
11/27   A long while ago someone posted a link to a page that had good
        questions to ask a perspective employer about the options being
        offered (what they represent as a % fo the company, etc.)
        I'm hoping someone remembers what i'm talking about and will post
        the URL again (or a similar page)  thanks.
        \_ http://buffy.eecs.berkeley.edu/Advising/CS/Peer/resources/joiningastartup.html
2000/11/27 [Industry/Startup] UID:19924 Activity:very high
11/27   1.  Dial   1-800-888-3999 (it's free)
        2.  Listen to all of the options
        3.  After hearing the 7th option - hit 7
        \_ Good God, man!  Have you been in a coma for 3 weeks?!  Just woke
           up today and read slashdot?  We ALL know, and it's not that funny
           \_ Quack quack quack
        \_ Some of us have accounts with this brokerage and its not funny.
        \_ URL at slashdot please?
2000/11/17-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19812 Activity:low
11/17   What are the implications (URL would be great) of being an officer
        of a company? I'm VP Eng of a new startup, and I'm wondering how/why
        I should push to be an officer.
        \_ I don't know if you have vc funding yet, but _unless_ you are really
           really really hip and profitable, VCs replace all the "O"s in a
           startup after they give you money and move in their own O's.
           Be warned. - paolo
        \_ You get a big golden handshake when you go under because they're
           making clueless people VP's.  What's the company name?  I want to
           know where not to send my resume.
        \_ I think officers usually have seats on the board of directors
           \_ No, not really.
        \_ What does "officer" mean at your company? Someone who is an
           officer at a bank, say, is not usually on the BoD. It's just
           a title that involves more stock options and signing authority.
        \_ Nick Kral, Gamers is a luz3r company. It doesn't matter what your
           title there is. Accept the fact and MOVE ON. You'll glad you did.
           You'd hope someone who claims to be a VP wouldn't post on
           the MOTD about this stuff. I guess startups are getting
           desperate.
           \_ My stock, as a founder, is already defined... Also, I'm not
              going to be on the board. The debate is whether or not I should
              be an officer. Why would I care? All the CEO said is that
              officers have "signing authority" but what does that mean?
        \_ Looks like your motivation is based on money. If the board of
           director likes you, he'll ask you to be on board. Otherwise,
           forget it. Very few honest men stand a chance of climbing to
           BoD. If you want to make it there, you need to learn how to be
           scumbag like the BoDs.
2000/11/11 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Startup] UID:19730 Activity:nil
11/10   wtf is http://venturehighway.com?  Anyone heard of these guys for info
        that's isn't on their website.
2000/11/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:19690 Activity:kinda low
11/9    Suppose I form a company and somehow convince one or several VCs
        to give me money.  Like say $5 million.  They will write the check
        in the name of my company. But I then turnaround and give myself,
        as CEO of the company, a $5 million dollar bonus.  And then declare
        the company bankrupt.  Is this possible?  I know it's unethical, but
        what's to prevent me from grabbing the money for myself after I get
        it.  Is this legal?
        \_ You'll be signing a contract 2 inches thick.  Figure it out.
        \_ Yes, it is, but you will have the shareholder majority vote behind
        you to defend it, which is highly unlikely after VCs are through
        with you. You can also count on getting sued. -muchandr
2000/10/31-11/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:19616 Activity:very high
10/30   What's up with deleting the anti-Epicentric comments?  Were they too
        accurate and painful?  Don't hide your head and your career in the
        sand.
        \_ No, they were neither accurate nor painful.  Besides, you're
           the anonymous one, so who's hiding whose head and career?  I
           encourage you and anyone else to check out the website and
           the job posting to check out the facts.  Thanks.  --peterl
           \_ say hi to luis for me, if he's still there. i emailed
              you about that, but you didn't reply, peterl.  --chris
           \_ Yeah, I made it all up.  And not wanting to get sued by anyone
              is certainly less important than 'proving' anything by signing
              by name.  Let us all know when they don't IPO again and finally
              go under.  Oh btw, *very* basic questions: how many rounds of
              funding do they have, how much was the last round and how much
              is left?  If you don't know that stuff, you know nothing and
              no matter what you think of my anonymity, your naive would
              certainly be proven.  And as far as my career goes, I was
              already earning $25k more than their 'offer' with 3x the stock
              as a percentage of company.  Currently $50k more than their
              offer with similar options ratio.  I know of others doing better
              but I've got nothing to be ashamed of.  Might have something to
              do with all those *questions* I ask which you won't.
              \_  So, what part of "go to our website" don't you understand?
                  You can find out about our funding, our support, etc, etc.
                  It's simply much faster for me to point out the source
                  of the information rather than answer individual questions,
                  but if you must know I've worked there for 14 months, so
                  I do *actually* know what's going on.  Speaking of getting
                  sued, I don't think you have to worry about breaking your
                  NDA because nothing you said is proprietary, or correct,
                  frankly.  Well, I guess the only thing you'd have to
                  worry about is slander ;)  I'd *love* to discuss detailed
                  financial information with you, but that would be a
                  breach of *my* NDA.  However, anyone who wants to know
                  the truth should come to our website, and sign-up for
                  an interview so you can talk to us. --peterl
                  \_ So you mean the VP *lied* to me in the interview about
                     their future IPO plans?  Ok, that makes me feel really
                     great about working there.  Glad they didn't make an
                     offer worth considering.  Greed might have overcome my
                     better sense.  And not being there in the interview with
                     your VP of Engineering, you have no clue about whether
                     or not what I said happened in the interview is true or
                     not.  Head in sand, boy.  Head in sand.
                  \_ The truth: 75 customers, 180 employees.  I hope you're
                     getting at least $150k from each customer (and that's
                     only going to get you to breakeven!)  $35million in
                     funding will only last you another year.  But then
                     again that's the average length of Silicon Valley jobs
                     these days.
                     \_ let someone see and decide for themself.  Every
                        job is a calculated risk that one takes.  Thanks
                        for the input, maybe Epicentric is a risk, but
                        to each his own. --chris (who doesn't work at
                        Epicentric for her own reasons but has nothing
                        against them)
                        \_ Yeah, let's not warn anyone or god forbid encourage
                           the stupid geeks to ask the right questions.  Let's
                           just all shutup and get chris another hiring bonus.
                           Let's all just sign up and find out for ourselves
                           the hard way.  Way to go chris!  Teach those young
                           geeks the best way to improve their futures!
                           Walking blind and stupid into a company you know
                           nothing about isn't a calculated risk.  You don't
                           have the information to calculate anything.  That's
                           not a risk.  It's just plain old stupid.
        \_ websites are just spin anyway.
                \_ Yep.  Bingo.
                \_ Most are, but luckily many of those are dying.
                   Everything's spin anyway -- politics, news, dreidels,
                   and so on -- and working for a fuckedcompany doesn't
                   even matter if you enjoy yourself and get paid.
                   work != life.  It's a very important aspect of life,
                   but I repeat IT IS NOT YOUR LIFE. Geez, these kids
                   nowadays....
                   \_ The point of working for a startup isn't to get paid.
                      It is about the _chance_ to possibly get a lot of wealth
                      in a very short period of time.  If you just want a job
                      that'll always pay, try McDonald's.  They're doing quite
                      well.
2000/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:19604 Activity:high 53%like:18800 53%like:19149 50%like:19187 54%like:19369 50%like:19457
10/30   Get a Job! /csua/pub/jobs/Epicentric
        \_ I interviewed there about a year ago.  Pre-IPO?  No kidding?  They
            had planned to IPO this last summer or spring.  Salaries?  I was
            already getting _50%_ _more_ at my current company!  They were
            not willing to negotiate in any serious way.  They had no clue why
            they chose the OS's they were using (as a sysadmin this matters to
            me) and had this OO Java religion to such an extreme degree they
            wanted me to learn java and do all my sysadmin coding in Java,
            not Perl or some shell.  Ridiculous.  And oh yeah, check out the
            business model....  Kids, do *not* join companies like this.  If
            you're already there do yourself a favor and look around.  _Ask
            *lots* of questions_!!!  Epicentric: lame company.
            \_ Yeah, they're java nazis. Their entire product is jsp-based.
2000/10/21-23 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:19536 Activity:high
10/21   Is it harder finding a significant other when you start working
        in the real world full time?
        \_  uh...YEAH.  think about it...if you're working 8 hours a day or
            more, and you don't go drinking, don't do church, and if
            you don't have lots of friends to hook you up, it gets
            REALLY hard. try to get hooked up before you leave college.
            dating at work can be awkward b/c if things go badly, you
            have to see that person on a daily basis still or still
            work with them, that's messy.  or your workplace might
            be a virtual purgatory with no women your age, only
            older 50-60 year old women nearing menopause and retirement.
            you don't necessarily have to get desperate and marry the
            person next to you before you leave college.  Your friends
            are your best connection at this stage other than your outside
            hobbies, if they are anti-social and have no leads, then
            you are pretty much sort of fucked.  like lots of other people,
            I think it's rather typical nowadays.
                   -- angry alum
            \_ Get one of the older people at work to hook you up with
               thier daughter. Easiest way to get to the top is to marry
               into it. Beware that you will have to treat this person
               nice otherwise things can get very hard at work.
               The other alternative is to have your parents find you
               a wife. Arranged marriages are cost effective and long
               lasting. None of that dating non-sense. The downside is
               that the proven system for arranged marriages is pretty
               much indian only, so unless you are indian SOL.
        \_ How could it possibly be any harder?
           \_ meeting fewer eligible people?
           \_Less TIME. actually having to work 8 hours a day,
             and commute 1-2 hours total
                \_ More free time, not having to be in class 4 hours a day,
                    working 4 hours a day, and studying/working on projects
                    10 hours a day.  (Or were you an English major?)
                       \_ WTH do you do for a living? I'm working ~ 60-80
                          hrs a week, I've got less free time now than when
                          I was at Cal going to class, labs, doing hw/projects
                          and so on. However, I'm looking forward to the
                          day (shortly now thanks to my options) when I can re
                          tire and become a full time skirt chaser.
                                \_ Programmer at a company who IPO'ed when
                                   you were learning to program in BASIC in
                                   grade school, so there are no "do or die"
                                   deadlines, and the options have a much
                                   higher chance of being worth more than the
                                   toilet paper that the average startup
                                   stock options end up as.
                                   \_ well, my options are in two decently
                                      large companies, so I'll be joining
                                      the millionare club soon. The reason
                                      I work so much is cause the old shits
                                      in my company don't do anything except
                                      count their money and someone has to
                                      finish the coding.
                          \_ How much money do you need? I work ~40 hours
                             per week and my options will be worth $2M in
                             another year+
                             \_ I'm out at 5M.
                    \_ in class or out, you are still surrounded by
                       peole close to your own age, who are or will be
                       college educated. Its different in the "real world"
                    \_ lots more people talk about kids.  You starting looking
                       at women's hands for rings.
                    \_ the pool of eligible potentials dwindles drastically
                       once you leave school.
                       \_ Return to school, become a hs teacher. Just make
                          sure to keep your hands off the ones you know are
                          underage.
                            \_ how successsful could this possibly be?  it's
                               barely viable and definitely not tolerated
                               in the United States.
                                  \_ It worked for Na-chan (If you understand
                                     this, I'm apologizing in advance)
                               \_ might not have been very serious about
                                  the last response.
2000/10/8-9 [Recreation/Travel, Industry/Startup] UID:19439 Activity:high
10/8    What's the deal with http://Priceline.com?  Rumor has it that it is going
        out of business.
        \_ they're Elvis. (dead).
        \_ http://www.fuckedcompany.com had something on them, I believe -John
        \_ http://www.fuckedcompany.com had something on them, I believe
-John
        \_ PriceLine WebHouse, their subsidiary that sold groceries & gas
           ran out of cash and closed their doors last week, but the main
           company is still around (for now).
        \_ Also, a couple of states attorneys general are investigating
           Priceline based on consumer complaints.  Finally, how does one
           work with a business model where one ends up with almost NO
           repeat customers?
2000/9/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19296 Activity:nil
9/19    My company was just acquired by Sun. What's Sun like? Good/Bad?
        \_ Probably a lot better than Cobalt. At least they have products.
        \_ What happens when a company buys out another? Does the old
           company simply cease to exist? Do they generally relocate?
           Do both upper mgmt teams merge?
2000/9/18-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19273 Activity:moderate
9/18    On employment contracts I've seen recently, there is a section
        where it asks me to "list any prior inventions," etc.  If I was
        to just name and briefly describe all the little things I've
        created or been working on for the last few years that I don't
        want to assign to the company, it would take pages.  I really
        don't want to assign the company ownership of all those things,
        I'd prefer not to even have to list them since many are viable
        business seeds.  How do you guys deal with this kind of stuff?
        \_ everyone i know who has had to to deal with an ip law issue and
          not used an ip lawyer as their primary recourse has severely
          regretted it.  the motd is a worse source than most, but your
          buddy in engineering with 12 patents might be just as bad.  talk to
          a lawyer.
         \_ I don't know how it would hold up in a challenge but i tended
            to be vague and simply stated "any and all [inventions] while
            working on project X..." (where x was often a domain name i had
            registered. And on like that through enough types of projects
            to cover everything, being slightly more specific (with worlds like
            "...including but not limited those...") on those things i was
            most worried about, had most developed or were most likely to be
            similar to things i would be doing for the employer.
2000/9/1 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:19147 Activity:very high
8/31    My company went IPO a while ago and now I'm a 1/3 vested ISO option
        multi-millionaire. I don't know what to do with the money I have and
        I'm depressed. Please help. And no, I'm not into CSUA charity.
        \_ Buy a large plot of land and thousands of garden gnomes, and
           make a garden-gnome model silicon valley.  -John
        \_ Develop a "crowd suit" made of a full-body rubber drysuit, studded
           with tons of electrically charged iron nubs and run through the
           city knocking into people.  -John
        \_ Build a house shaped like a huge cucumber.  -John
        \_ Corner the world pig market.  -John
        \_ Have someone develop a space station for you, shoot it into
           orbit, and have it manned by spider monkeys.  -John
        \_ Become "eccentric" and walk around in a bathrobe.  -John
        \_ Why would this depress you?  Buy a house you like in a city you
        \_ Mary a gold digger, they'll show you how to spend your money.
                \_ MOTD spelling god was here.
           like so you're not h0zed if the market crashes or your company
           dies and then just continue living life as before.  Put the rest
           into something safe and long term.  Hire a CPA.
        \_ So look at a "real" charity. Find one that actually makes a
                      apper to be.  She's truly in love with him.  He's
                      broke.
           difference in something meaningful to YOU.
           Might I suggest getting rid of homeless people in berkeley?
        \_ Marry a gold digger, they'll show you how to spend your money.
           \_ You misunderstand homelessness, friend.  The homeless will always
              be here, even if wealth was distributed evenly.  It's a matter
              of psychology, not economics.
              \_ Wasn't there a book by a formerly homeless guy disputing
                 this? Haven't read it... any reviews?
                 \_ If he's "formerly" homeless then he isn't like 99% of them.
             \_ Dude, he didn't say why not "make them wealthy and happy"
                We're talking about getting RID of them no matter by which
                means. They well deserve it.
        \_ In this case, please sign your name.
        \_ Golddiggers can help you spend your money.
                \_ "They"?  You mean "she".  Some things can never be
                   PC-ified.
                      \_ Its gender netural now.
                   \_ Could be a female poster talking about a male
                      golddigger.  Some things are not quite what they
                      appear to be.  She's truly in love with him.  He's
                      broke.  By the way, you should really look into
                      a sensitivity training class.
                      \_ Male golddigger?  Oh please.  Like that exists.  Like
                         there's enough single women with money just waiting
                         to take care of your fat ugly face.  You should really
                         look into the real world and they way things really
                         are.  For ever "male golddigger" there's a billion
                         "female golddiggers".  I'll grant about half a dozen
                         so-called male gold diggers on the planet.  None on
                         the motd or knowing anyone on the motd.  And you
                         could look into a better dictionary to find out what
                         it means as well.
                         \_ You dont know enough women. Wouldn't say "male
                            gold-digger", but a few guys earn less than
                            their woman. Not me of course. And it would be
                            "they" if they were Playboy Playmates from
                            one of the Twins or Sisters issues.
                            If you spent your stock on playmates, I bet
                            you wouldnt be so(as) depressed.
                      \_ Yes!!  I am the ultimate troll3r.  But really,
                         you should look into a sensitivity training class.
                   \_ "They"?  You mean "she".  Fuck being PC, first get your
                      grammar write. -grammarmonger
                           \_ Well, perhaps marry was an incorrect term.
                              The possibility that poster is a fag or a
                              dyke must be considered, thus the pronoun
                              is "they" rather than she. (I guess you
                              could make a case that a gold digging fag
                              is really a "she").
                        \_ Fuck you!  I am male, and I am a gold-digger.
                           I fuck women for their money.  I know the
                           tiny brain behind your pimply-arse of a face
                           can never imagine that, but please don't
                           erase my existence, arsehole.
2000/8/11 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18969 Activity:nil
8/11    I am a contractor and my client wants me to take some stock instead
        of cash as payment. This is for 3-4 months required to finish the
        project that went into overtime. How do I calculate the number of
        shares that (given some risk factor) would match the decrease in
        my hourly rate? Looking for a URL with an explanation and a formula,
        if one exists. These will probably be non-qualifying stock options.
        \_ Don't do it. They'll stiff you.
                \_ More or less yes and that's why I want to make an
                   informed decision
2000/8/7-8 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18909 Activity:high
8/7     A variation on the salary increase question from last week.  Which
        person is considered wealthier according to your standards.  I'll
        take stock options out of the picture, since both persons can have
        stock while making different salaries.
        Person A -- making 120K a year. Spending nearly all the money on
                    expensive restaurants, clothes, a BMW, fancy apartment,
                    etc.  Nearly 0 in savings.
        Person B -- making 70K a year.  Drives an old toyota, rents a house
                    with 3 other people, brings his own lunch.  Saves nearly
                    30K a year.
        \_ This question is flawed.
                \_ I agree.  The question is deeply flawed.  At best you could
                   calculate total worth at the end of each quarter/year and
                   say that B probably owns more than A and is therefore
                   wealthier but quality of life has unmeasurable value.
        \_ both are idiots.
        \_ Both are wealither than me.  I make $90K a year and I don't spend
           money on expensive restaurants (or hardly any restaurants), clothes,
           computers, AV equipments, trips or fancy car, and I only pay
           $2100K/mo on mortgage.  But I still save $0 because I have to give
           $1K/mo and all the money I made from stock options to my parents
           and they still wonder why I'm not saving any money!
           \_ Why do you give them money?  What's wrong with them?
              \_ Must be asian parents.
                 \_ Not all asian parents are like that. My parents
                    (indian) helped my buy my options. jj's parents
                    (chinese) let him freeload too.
        \_ Person A gets more pussy. Person B is more certain to have money
           when he's old, but he'll regret his boring life.
        \_ What about Person C:
           Person C -- making 80K a year. Drives pre-owned luxury car,
                       lives with parents, brings lunch that mom makes.
                       Has fast DSL/Cable line as only recurring expense.
                       Saves ~ 40K a year.
                       \_ Forgot, also has several has several hundred K
                          in options since he has the cash to buy them,
                          unlike A and B.
           \_ Wow, sounds like me.
           \_ And me. Its an economical lifestyle. I'll eventually become
              a millionare.
        \_ Person D -- wealthy in spirit and rich in life.
        \_ This is a trollish lifestyle question, not a salary increase
           question.  My lifestyle has improved from 70k --> 120k but not
           the way you have it.  I don't throw all my money away but I spend
           more now than I did to improve my quality of life.  I also save.
           \_ The question is "who is wealthier".  Not who has better lifestyle
              Lifestyle is highly subjective.  Does bill gates have a better
              lifestyle than Mother Theresa?  More money != better lifestyle.
              Wealth, however, is an absolute measure of money.  Just because
              you make money doesn't mean that you have more.  I'd have to
              say that person B is wealthier for the simple reason that he
              has more money in the bank than person A at the end of every
              year.
        \_ Person C gets no pussy, does he.  Infact, person C probably turned
           to computers as "his olnly friend" when the big bad bullies of
           jr high took his lunchmoney.  This was infuriated later when he
           tried to ask a girl out in high school and she laughed in his face
           awww, poor nerd boy.  poor poor nerd boy.
           \_ The "poor nerd boy" is laughing all the way to the bank.
        \_ Thousands ain't gonna make you rich.  You are lapping at the scraps
           that business folks are throwing at you.  Only relax when you
           can measure your net worth, and holdings and have to use floats
           - paolo
                a career.
             \_ No but options are. By living at home you can afford to max
                out your 401K and your ESPP and buy all your vested options
                which will put you into the big leagues over the course of
                a career. Yes you have no woman, but you $'s. $'s are forever.
                You can use $'s to get women at any age. 40 yr old multi-
                millionare nerd boys can get more play than 24 year old
                BMW boy.
           \_ cunt
           \_ i measure my net worth in octal, i must be poor. you moron.
              \_ no, you're just a smart ass geek.
           \_ decimals: 0.00002
        \_ person A and B are cunts.  In fact so is person C.  That's what C
           stands for.
        \_ I claim that paolo authored this entire motd entry, in a fit
           of jealous rage against kinney.
2000/7/31-8/1 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18834 Activity:high
7/31    Why would stock split affect the stock price? Wouldn't the total
        valuation of the company stay the same? Afterall, it is the
        percentage gain/loss, not the actual dollar amount, that matters.
        \_ Why do I have to eat?  I get hungry sometimes, and I eat,
           but then my shoes are too big.
            \_ why are you a such a moron/freak?
        \_ because people are irrational.  (don't tell me this is the first bit
           of evidence you have noticed). -crebbs
        \_ stock split really shouldn't affect price.  But at Crebbs says,
           people are irrational.  Plus, a stock split often means that
           the management is very confident in their performance.  Plus,
           people like to buy in 100 lot shares.  The lower the price,
           the easier it is to buy 100 lot shares.
           \_ trend analysis shows that average stock performance after a
              split is actually lower than before.  but it's not very
              significant either way.  You used to have to buy in lots of
              100 shares or else pay a lot extra, but that's no longer true.
              -tom
                \_ some people actually do trading not on the actual split
                   date, but on the split announcement.  Some people
                   buy on the rumour, and sell on the news (the split).
                        \_ but in answer to the initial query, viewed with
                           reasonable time scales in mind, splits are noop's.
                           -tom
                                \_ yermom is all but noop
                                \_ whoa... I need to go back to bed... I find
                                   myself agreeing with tom....  Must be a bad
                                   dream... see you in a few hours. zzzzzzz...
2000/7/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:18772 Activity:nil
7/24    Motd depression poll: How many sodans keep their own company?
         \_ yes
         \_ No, I hate my own company.  That's why I keep so much other
            company buried under the floorboards.
            \_ spooky
2000/7/20-21 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18734 Activity:kinda low
7/20    SDLI $500+ by the end of the month!  It's unstoppable man!
                -MSFT millionaire and now fiber optics millionaire
        \_ Good for you.  But you're still a luser.  Go away.
        \_ Can you say JDSU?
        \_ motd poll.  What's more exciting?  Sex or watching your favorite
           stock go up $68 (20%) in a day?
           sex     0
           stock   1
           sex while watching your favorite stock go up 1
2000/7/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:18594 Activity:very high
7/5     Are most startups shitty places to work, or is it only startups
        managed by fobs (indian or otherwise)?
        I'm leaving a shitty fob startup and just wanted to get an idea
        if other startups are just as bad as mine.
        \_ I work at a startup and I love it.  -- ilyas
                \_ tell us about the fobs, ilyas...
                \_ FOB = Fresh Off Boat, ie any non-english speaking
                   style and socially impared immigrant, esp Asian. -- troll
           \_ I don't think you got the point.  Is it managed by fobs?
                \_ FOB = Fresh Off Boat, ie any non-english speeking
                   style and socially impared imigrant, esp Asian. -- troll
              \_ Well, I am answering his question.  Also, I always thought
                 fob was some sort of vietnamese high-school gang thing.
                 -- ilyas
                 \_ Well, you were always wrong.  Love those ivory towers....
        \_ do NOT work for an Indian company. They're shrewd and really
           know how to rip you off.
        \_ I worked at two startups not managed by fobs and I love them.
           -- fob
        \_ Been at 1 fob, 2 non fobs.  First nonfob was bought out and never
           really went anywhere.  fob was ok but I left after a year.  Now
           at non-fob.  It's ok.  Everyone company has problems.  Pick a
           company with problems you can deal with.
        \_ fobs typically smell really bad because of a blatant disregard
           of body odor and basic oral hygiene...
                - the anti-fob
           \_ Yes, and the only people that can equal them are the fat
              natives.  I think it's because they can't clean under their
              thick folds of flesh.  I used to have a fat native colleague
              and a fat native TA.  They smell really bad!  One has fingers
              so fat he can barely type.  He keeps making mistakes and saying
                \_ Let's kill and eat them!  Save the cows!  Kill a fat
                   native!
              "Oops!  Sorry!  Fat fingers!".  The fat native colleague is
              somewhat of an asshole too ...  - the anti-fat-natives
                \_ My fobs weren't smellier than any other engineers and
                   mostly less so.
              \_ Save cows!  Kill and eat fat natives!
                      \_ The Cow King appreciates your sentiment.
              \_ Someone did put a hat on some ham!
        \_ startups have startup problems.  fobs have fob problems.  fob
           startups have fob and startup problems.
        \_ FOBs drive the American economy; 2GOBs are still ok. 3GOBs and
           thereafter are mostly fat lazy fucks.
           \_ That's the side effect of naturalizing.  Too bad.
                \_ Nah, it's a direct effect.  They become just like the
                   rest of the population and by generation 4 or 5 start
                   joining the welfare lists with all the blacks and half
                   the mexicans.
2000/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Industry/Startup] UID:18461 Activity:very high
6/14    http://www.adjectivity.com
        \_ I like how they grow to great lengths to talk about "Project
           Mercury" without ever actually explaining what "Project
           Mercury" is.  This is just another moronic
           startup.  There is no new ground breaking technology here
           just like all those other stupid startups who claim they
           do but really don't.
        \_ Yet another web startup.  God, what do you guys actually do
           besides IPO?
        \_ you must be joking
           \_ no, I'm joeking. -- joeking
        \_ "universe everywhere is equally dense with idiots"
                                           \_ dans
           they got the buzzword thing down.
        \_ thank you for adding more buzzords to the industry, fuckers
        \_ it's dans's startup.
           \_ dans, you are a moron
        \_ The name is terrible and stupid, but perhaps, just maybe, that was
           intentional.
        \_ I'd just like to point out that there's a Bill Gates quote on
           there, and the color makes it look like a baby underwear store.
           Otherwise, it's an alright idea;  some specifics would be nice
           though.  -John
        \_ So, uhm, ok, I read the 5 or so pages.  It looks like they're
           developing a web browser.  The description could have come from
           1992 from a Netscape PR flak talking about NS 1.0.  I like how
           they got the buzzword thing down, but I'd avoid pointing out the
           value of all that student talent in a frat house basement.  And
           don't fucking edit the content of my posts you fucking asshole.
           I said what I meant.  If you want to delete the whole thing, go
           ahead, but don't chop off half a sentence and stick a period in
           to change the entire meaning of my post.  Fuck you and the college
           boys hacking in a frat basement.
           \_ what do you have against hacking out code in a basement?
              \_ You missed the point. The emphasis was on the word "frat"
                 \_ ok, i'll bite, what do you have against hacking code
                    in a frat basement (as opposed to a regular basement?)
                    The software written there does _not_ become the property
                    of the frat any more than it would some berkeley building
                    owner if they got an office in dt berkeley.
                        \_ A bunch of drunken frat boys hacking in a basement
                           is *not* considered a positive business statement
                           which might convince a VC to cough up a few million
                           bucks or a business partner to bet his company on
                           your product.  That you would ask such a question
                           explains why SV is full of Stanford founders and
                           not Cal founders.  Cal could really use some basic
                           business classes for engineers.  Practical stuff,
                           not macroeconomics.
        \_ wow, who's working at http://intel.com?
2000/6/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:18454 Activity:low
6/12    How do you find suid programs in a directory structure.  I've tried
        find -perm -4000 .
        as the man pages states but all I get is
        find: illegal option -- p
        find: illegal option -- e
        find: illegal option -- r
        find: illegal option -- m
        find: illegal option -- 4
        find: illegal option -- 0
        find: illegal option -- 0
        find: illegal option -- 0
        \_ Try "find . -perm -4000" instead.
           \_ Is there a list of programs that should be SUID?
                \_ Yes.  There are many in fact - a different one for each
                   version of each flavor of Unix, plus a whole other set
                   for different packages you may have added on.
                   \_ According to http://rootprompt.org only mail and sendmail
                      need be suid.
                        \_ http://rootprompt.org is wrong.  In fact it's really
                           badly wrong, since sendmail doesn't need to be
                           suid (though it usually is).  -tom
                        \_ su, rlogin, rsh all become pretty useless without
                           the setuid bit.  (Although for rsh & rlogin, that
                           may be a good thing.)  -alan-
2000/6/12-14 [Industry/Startup, Industry/Jobs] UID:18450 Activity:high
6/12    This is prob. been asked many times already, but what is the
        standard scale for converting from hourly/contractor to yearly/
        employee?  Have choice btwn stock option or bonus structure but
        I think i will take bonus structure...  -sky
        \_ Hourly->Yearly is multiply by 2000, but contractor->employee is
           much harder.
        \_ hourly->yearly is correct.  but for contractor->employee i
           usually like to do hourly * 1000.  so if you're making
           $120/hr, that would be $240,000 annual.  but if you want to be an
           employee, it would give around $120,000 or maybe slightly more.
           -uctt
           \_ Wow!  Are you saying that a company will pay twice as much
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?  Why?  I do realize
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?
              \_ no, he's saying that contractors have to pay more of their
                 money to the gubmint as taxes
              Why?  I do realize
              that as a contractor you have to pay self-employment
              tax, health insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc.
              When I account for all this it seems to me that contractors
              should get about 1.4--1.5 times as much as salaried employees.
              How do you come up with your x2 number.  Thanks. -emin
              \_ yes, they will pay twice as much for a contractor over a
                 salaried employee.  why?
                 1.  usually contractors are better skilled
                        \_ Hahahahhahahhhahaa.. cough.. gasp... wheeze....
                                \_ contrary to popular belief, not everyone
                                   (other than you) is stupid.  every day
                                   our group is looked at to make sure that
                                   we are adding value to the client's
                                   projects.  and every day they realize
                                   that for every one of our guys we do the
                                   work of at least 3 of their employees.
                                   we work longer hours and more
                                   importantly, we're more productive.
                                   that's why they can justify to their
                                   C-levels the amount of money that is
                                   being spent.  start your own company
                                   and maybe you'll learn. -uctt
                                   \_ Sounding pretty defensive.  I'm sure
                                      each of you is a tremendous value-add
                                      and >insert buzzwords 4 through 16 here<
                                      Yep.  You're worth any 10 normal men!
                 2.  you can get them quickly.  if you need 2 highly skilled
                     java EJB developers with 2+ years of java experience,
                     it will take you at least 2 months to interview 10+
                     people and find 2 good ones and have them start.  with
                     contractors, you can have 2 in your office in 1-2
                     weeks.
                 3.  if you only need them for 3-6 months, you can get them
                     to agree to that.  try telling a salaried employee that
                     "your salary is $120k but you may have to get fired in
                     3 months cuz we won't need you then".
                 4.  they usually do not give them stock, they usually can
                     make them work, and they can usually get rid of them
                     relatively painlessly whenever they want to.
                 short answer?  flexibility.  that flexibility is worth
                 paying 2x.  the 2x comes from experience of hiring
                 contractors, hiring employees, and hiring
                 contractors->employees. -uctt
        \_ uctt, are you a contractor? what do you do?
                \_ contract.
                        \_ No wonder he thinks contractors are more skilled.
        \_ full time employee at my own startup now. never contracted in my
           life.  but i did spent some time in big 5 consulting managing
           various e-Commerce projects and our team of consultants from big
           5 was always much better than the employees in the client company
           (that's why they were paying us $275-$350/hr to be there) -uctt
                \_ No.  They were paying that so management could have someone
                   to blame when it all falls to shit.  No one pays you more
                   because you're more skilled.  They don't have a basis to
                   judge your skill level.
                        \_ of course that's a big part of it.  we'll take
                           the blame if it all "falls to shit".  it's called
                           taking RESPONSIBILITY and i'll take the
                           responsiblity for a project in exchange for the
                           big bucks that they have to pay us.  i've
                           met morons in consulting.  i've met a lot more
                           morons that work as full time employees for the
                           client. -uctt
                           \_ You know why that is, right? The companies
                              that don't need your expertise don't hire
                              you. If there's a better staff in house then
                              likely they'll go with that. Granted,
                              sometimes management does stupid things
                              anyway, but I bet this helps explain your
                              experiences. --dim
                                \_ Holy cow!  I find myself agreeing 100% with
                                   dim.  Hell has just frozen over.
                                   \_ I think it's a great idea to hire
                                      consultants when the current staff
                                      is better.  What's the matter with
                                      you?!?
2000/6/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:18420 Activity:nil
6/5     Another informal poll--
        .com IPOs will last another year        501
        \_ Man they better not be over before I graduate!
        .com IPOs are over                      3
        \_ Human stupidity is infinite.
        \_ Software .com craze is over.  Hardware rules.  Period.
           \_ Yeeeeeh mannn, hardware r00lz! software for l0zersss
2000/5/30-6/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:18366 Activity:high
5/30    Is it ethical to leave your company on the day that 1/2 of your
        options vest?
        \_ That has no bearing on the reason why you are leaving, unless
           it is the reason. If it is the reason, then you are a fool.
                                                \_ Hello, I am st00pid sodan.
        \_ Of course.  Options are compensation, just like salary.
        \_ yeup. If they wanted to make sure you stayed longer, they
           would have made the vesting period longer. Although you might
           give them a little notice, so that they can make a counteroffer.
        \_ Ethics has nothing to do with anything.  Welcome to the Valley.
           \_ All's fair.  Frankly, I wish everyone had the job-switching
              liberty that most tech people are accustomed to.  Every job
              you have is just another one until the job you love.
            \_ rightly said....that almost sounds like the opening to
               "Quantum Leap"
                \_ Still looking for it.  In the meantime, every hop is a
                   nice increase in salary and another chance to make it big
                   if any of these options ever become worth anything.  Why
                   put all your eggs in one basket?  The CEO and founders will
                   be gazillionaires if they make it.  You won't.  Spread it
                   around to improve your odds.
                \_ rightly said....that almost sounds like the opening to
                   "Quantum Leap"
                   \_ Really? I thought it sounded more like yermom's approach
                      to mating.
        \_ Your employer won't think of it as unethical when he wants to lay
           you off during "re-structuring" (not necessarily down-sizing), so
           why should you care?  -- yuen
        \_ Try to leave on vest day + epsilon.  Just in case your employee
           wants to mess with you by doing off by n things with your vest
           date.
2000/5/25-29 [Industry/Startup] UID:18340 Activity:kinda low
5/24    The company I work for is hiring like it's a two-bit whore.
        Pre-IPO. Shitload of options. See the big list in
        /csua/pub/jobs/ROI_Direct and send me your resume. -seano
        \_ Beware the Moonies!
                \_ what makes you think these people are moonies?
                \_ Seano no longer works for moonies.  Seano works for evil
                   soul selling spammers now.  -John
        \_ I didn't know that two-bit whore's hired people. I
           though that two-bit whore's got paid by people. If
           you need to pay the company to work there it must suck.
           And if its a two-bit whore of a company you might get
           a vd or something.
                \_ The Apostrophic Jihad will have you're head on a plate!
                                                   \_ your
                                                        \_ YHBT, HTH, HAND.
                                                           -- tmonroe
                \_ seano wasn't an English major.  He's trying his best.
                   \_ This has nothing to do with anything. I'm just dumb.
                                                                -seano
           \_ Well... to clarify for the impotent of imagination, a
              two-bit whore - less discriminating than a standard whore -
              was naturally easier for ANY man (or dyke), from most all
              walks of life, to get off on. Likewise, the employ of the
              company is comprised largly of men and dykes and is not as
              pretty as other dot-com start-ups much in the same way that
              a two-bit whore was not as pretty as the average whore.
              a two-bit whore was not as pretty as the average whore. The
              important point that you are missing in your blindingly
              adolescent analysis is that it's all about sacrificing as
              little as possible to get in on the Big Hole. C'mon, little
              timid boy... are you afraid to take your pants off? -seano
              \_ You sound defensive.  Are you ashamed of working there?
              \_ WTF are you babbling about?  More importantly, can I have
                 a few hits from your bowl?
2000/5/16-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:18282 Activity:nil
5/16    When you go to a post-IPO company that grants you stock options,
        what's the typical price (percentage wise)?
        \_ market price on the date granted.
           \_ depends on company.  Some are priced the day you come in,
                some come on a pre-specified date after you come in,
                other combos exist.
        \_ Depending on the company, 0-25% off the market price 0-90 days
           after you start.
2000/5/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:18217 Activity:low
5/9     I am caught in between the crossfire of my Manager and the product
        manager.  I've finished up a project early, and my Manager told me
        not to tell anyone about it.  And whenever the Product Manager come
        by to ask me about the progress on the project, I was instructed (by
        my manager) to tell him nothing but I am working on it.  The moral of
        the story: take care of yourself at work places -- doing something you
        have a passion of, but also get the proper respect or in many cases,
        compensation.
        \_ The moral of the story is that your company isn't healthy,
           especially if it is small.  You may consider looking for another
           job unless you enjoy working in the company of people who will
           think nothing of backstabbing each other or undermining the
           welfare of the company for the sake of personal gain.  Do you
           think you will be treated honorably by these same people?
        \_ What's the problem?  You're done earlier; you're telling the
           ProdM you're still on it; your Manager is happy because he or
           she knows you're done early; no one's late.
          \_ the problem is, it's hard to be inconsistent with your answer when
            you are in a small company.  Basically, I have to present my project
            to the tech writers for wording changes.  And the product manager
            is in charge of the tech writers.  He constantly checks with them.
            \_ So let me guess:  From the tech writers the ProdM knows you're
               project is much ahead of schedule.  So the ProdM gets into
               a discussion with your Manager re not disclosing that you
               were done early.  Not your fault; no big deal.  The disagreement
               is between your Manager and the Prod.
2000/5/4-5 [Industry/Startup] UID:18175 Activity:kinda low
4/34    When was the last startup->IPO hype? Was it in the 1960's
        (aeronautics), 1950's (automobile), 1970's (electrical)???
        How long do you think this internet startup->IPO hype will last?
        \_ Never before and never again.  (The big automakers were all
           public long before the 1950's.)
         \_ There is certainly no comparison between the stuff now and
            biotech startups in the 80's.
2000/4/17-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:18035 Activity:nil
4/17    Postscript on a discussion about stock options that occurred on the wall
        last week... At my company the options are nonqualifying (NQ), whereas
        at many others, they're ISO (Incentive Stock Options).  The tax
        ramifications of the two are different, hence my claim that it is best
        to wait as long as possible to exercise (which is correct for NQ).  Just
        trying to clear up any confusion I may have caused.  -emarkp
        \_ http://fairmark.com/execcomp/iso.htm
2000/4/5-6 [Computer/HW/Scanner, Industry/Startup] UID:17928 Activity:moderate
4/4     Does anyone have recommendations or experiences to share on
        document conversion from hard copy to pdf?  Specifically, any
        recommended company?
        \_ You mean Word document to pdf?
           \_ Paper to pdf.
              \_ Why don't you just create the document from scratch
                 and generate the PDF from there.  It'll be much easier
                 than trying to scan it and get it to PDF (I don't even
                 know if that exists).  Or you can always do what that
                 dude who scanned tjb's resume and converted to PDF did
                 but then you get a giant bitmap stored in PDF format
                 which is a pretty stupid idea if you ask me.
                 \_ Would do that, except that it is high volume.
                    It would take a long time to do all of them.
         \_ Good scanner, good OCR program, good word processor,
            import into Acrobat.  -John
        \_ http://www.cardiff.com - haven't used them, but they have a lot of
           cool (expensive) shit.
2000/3/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:17860 Activity:nil
3/25    If someone has the .com name I want How do I approach
        the person to buy?  Just send a note?
        \_ Have your lawyer send them a cease and desist notice
           and then threaten to sue. It helps to have deeper
           pockets and better connections than the person who
           owns the .com you want.
2000/3/24-25 [Industry/Startup] UID:17841 Activity:nil
3/23    What is the command/option to create shared libraries
        on linux?  It seems like ar generates static libraries,
        but I don't see an option to create shared libraries.
        Can anyone offer me a clue?  Thanks.
        \_ ld or gcc -shared
2000/3/20-21 [Industry/Startup] UID:17806 Activity:moderate
3/20    My company allows us to purchase options that aren't vested yet.
        So I purchased all four year's worth in 1999.  So now I owe AMT.
        My question is, do I have to report only the vested and exercised
        shares by 12/31/99 or do I have to report all my shares even the
        unvested ones?  It sounds stupid if I have to pay AMT even on
        shares I don't technically own yet.
        \_ You must report all exercised shares. (Exercised means you
           purchased them whether they've vested or not) You only have to
           pay the spread between the current stock option price and the
           price *granted* to you. (Assuming this is a private company)
           Although it does sound stupid, the reason why you would do this
           is because if you purchase your stocks immediately at the
           grant price when it is the *same* as the purchase price, you
           won't have to pay AMT. (You'll still have to pay capital gains,
           however) --chucky
           \_ If I read this, you also won't get the primary benefit of
              options--that is your option to buy at a certain price is unused
              if you buy the stock at the fair market value, since that's what
              every other trader is buying the stock for.
2000/3/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:17662 Activity:nil
2/29    Anyone hear about News Corp. merging with Yahoo!? What will this
        do for the stock of these two companies? --dim
        \_ Plunge like a stone in a lake.  A deep lake.
        \_ Take a look at AOL.
           \_ Which to short? How short? --dim
                \_ Don't short a huge money making company that has a 20m
                   captive subscriber base.  Duh.
2000/2/17 [Industry/Startup] UID:17537 Activity:nil
2/17    XUMA infosession tonight at the Faculty Club, 7 PM.  XUMA is "a
        pre-IPO e-commerce solutions company located in San Francisco."
        Joe Cha, CEO and co-founder will be speaking and taking questions.
        -dans
2000/2/16 [Industry/Startup] UID:17519 Activity:nil
2/16    What is a good avg. starting salary for a methamphetamine dealer?
        None of that pre-IPO nasty crank stuff, I'm talking investment
        grade crystal here.
2000/2/10-11 [Industry/Startup] UID:17479 Activity:high
2/9     Someone recently asked me to join their net startup.  They've
        already got three programmers, an internal prototype with the
        requisite software and hardware, but only did the incorporation
        paperwork about five months ago.  I have their business plan and
        they seem to have pretty good connections.  The programmers are
        all grad students and the others are MBA students and they seem
        pretty knowledgable and cool.  If I don't put any money in, what
        can I, as a fourth programmer who's also a grad student, expect as
        fair compensation?  (I was thinking $40-60K as opposed to $60-80K
        for a corporation or better-funded startup, but I'm really not
        sure what I should get in terms of equity ...)
                \- IMHO, anyone giving you advice [as opposed to meta-advice
                like me] is deluded ... I dont think you can possibly give
                advice based on this info. I think the only way to decide what
                if fair is to compare your skills, contribution and risks to
                the other people and find out what they are getting compared
                to you. --psb
        \_ This company should have funding by now unless they don't for a
           particularly good reason. If they have funding, there is NO reason
           for the startup to pay full fair. As a graduating undergraduate,
           I'm looking between 55k and 80k. 60-65k seems to be about what most
           startups are offering. Being a grad student, you should be able
           to get about the same salary, perhaps with a bit more equity, but
           not necessarily. If they don't have funding, you probably won't
           be able to get paid for a while, and you should get a lot more
           equity. Maybe something like 0.2%-1.0%. If they have funding,
           expect between .03%-.25%.
        \_ psb nailed this one.
                \_  ppl seem *really* adverse to talking about stock options
                    that is too bad since so many are in the dark about this
                    sort of thing and often get screwed by the beancounters.
                    You have to ask "how many oustanding shares exist?"
                    You have to ask "how many outstanding shares exist?"
                    Then you ask what range the negotiator was thinking about.
                    Then you put out what you were thinking, in a way
                    where you don't come off as demanding, but also to
                    let him/her know you are not to be fux0red with.
                    Given the circumstances you describe (I don't know
                    what kind of work experience you have or how many
                    years)  I'd ask for .25 to 1%, with 2 to 4 year vesting
                    given that the company has 10 to 50 million
                    outstanding shares, which is about what I've gathered is an
                    industry standard.  Call me delusional. - tpc
                        \_ They won't give you 2 year vesting at a company
                           this young.  You'll be fully vested before they
                           go public.  Not a chance.  1%??  You better be
                           prepared to live on site for the next two years
                           for that.  This shit doesn't come free.  I'd rather
                           have my .20% and a life, thanks.  The odds are so
                           heavily stacked against a startup making it that
                           you'd have to be ice cold brain dead stupid to give
                           up your life for it in the slightest.  -startup guy
                           \_ For a fresh hire to get 1%... that's a lot. But
                              if you're a senior guy, you can get 1% and keep
                              a 40-50hr work week. Most fresh hires I know
                              get offered 10k shares but think that is really
                              good and don't even know how many are outstanding
                                \_ 1% is stunningly high.  If you're a senior
                                   guy and getting 1%, you're living on site.
                                   If you're not, the company is dead because
                                   they didn't give you 1% to sit on your ass.
                                   You're getting 1% to do 5 people's worth of
                                   work.  They can give that 1% to 5 or 10
                                   other people (.2% - .1% each) so no you're
                                   totally stupid if you think you're getting
                                   a huge number like that and going home at
                                   5pm.  They don't have enough options left
                                   to give to others if they give every 40
                                   hour/week slacker that much.  I've been
                                   there and done that in several startups and
                                   am a "senior guy".  I'd like to know the
                                   name of the funded startup that's giving
                                   away options like water in a rain storm.
        \_ This is all absurd!  When negotiating and asking for percentage
           of common stock, you gain very little.  You do not know what
           dilution will do to your share long term.  The only people that
           can demand PERCENTAGE ownership are the first X formative guys...
           If you want to get it right, you need plans, business case data,
           etc. and then take a guess at what anti-dilution various investors
           (a co-founder) - but let's say on the 1st floor (< 6-months-old)?
           will get...give it up.  Just take the number, the total authorized
           shares, and the outstanding.  Then ask for the current valuation,
           and the est. IPO price (you prolly can't get this either).  Then
           decide how much you would stand to make and pad actual salary
           accordingly.  Get it up front as cash or get in at the start for
           like 5-10% and ridiculously low salary if you believe in the
           product / can afford to play.
        \_ hello, reality check.  You guys are talking about 6-person,
           < 6-month-old startups, right?  I'm getting the impression
           people are referring to 20-50 person startups already past
           their first round of VC funding.  Is it really .1-.3% vested
           in (let's say) 3 years for a company that young?  Is that
           what's normal for being - not necessarily on the ground floor
           (a co-founder) - but on the "1st floor" (< 6-months-old)?
           \_ What's normal is how well you negotiate and nothing more.  The
              "industry standard" is a myth.
2000/2/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:17470 Activity:high
2/9     Is it possible for sys adm to get stock options?
        \_ It's possible for any employee to get stock options.  You think
           only coders get stock?  Hell, our receptionist gets stock.  The
           intern we hired gets stock.  Geeze.  Everyone gets stock.
                \_ Hourly employees may find it harder to get stock since the
                   Dept. of Labor ruled that they should get stock-and-a-half
                   for overtime as well as time-and-a-half.
        \_ At Cisco our lab admins and sys admins get decent pay and health
           stock options. They also get to play with all the cool new stuff
           and get to take the old not so useful for work stuff home. If you
           treat them nice, sometimes they will even give a humble engineer
           an old router, a switch or a few workstations.
                \_ Coders are usually too stupid to treat sysadmins nice.  I
                   suspect it's due more to lack of basic social skills rather
                   than arrogance but this remains only a theory.
                   \_ Have a cookie.
                        \_ I'll just keep all the toys and lock down your
                           workstation instead, thanks.
                           \_ Silence techno-janitor!  Back to scrubbing the
                              toilets!
                                \_ Eat me.  I make more than you and don't work
                                   more than an hour a week for it.
                                   \_ No you don't, my green-skinned friend.
                                      The only reason you make more than a
                                      normal janitor is because your job is
                                      even less appealing.  Now go clean up a
                                      mess somewhere.
                                        \_ /bin/rm -rf ~coderidiot  Now go take
                                           a shower.
                                           \_ Yes, yes.  Try that BOFH
                                              bullshit at a real company, and
                                              see how long you ll last.
                                              Now clean faster, boy!
2000/2/2-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:17398 Activity:moderate
2/1     When is the next gm?
        \_ This came up at this evening's politburo meeting.  We are shooting
           for some time this month.  Is there anyone you'd like to see speak?
           -dans
                \_ Want to see tjb speak.
        \_ Trevor! We know you are reading this! Please show up on the GM today
           and join our honorable, professional organization of talented
           individuals! - tjb's #1 motd fan.
           \_ Trevor doesn't have the balls.  All talk.  Anyway, you really
              _want_ him to show up and bore you to tears?  What a whiner....
        \_ What do people think of a panel covering Berkeley student/alum
           experiences with startups?  We'd have people who've founded
           startups as well as people who came on later.
           -dans
           \_ I think that would be great. -Galen
              \_ Agree.  Add a vote for that. -dlwhite
           \_ Better would be Stanford alums who founded startups.
                \_ Is $tanfurd really better than Cal at startup success rate?
                   I mean, for every Hotbot, is there a Yahoo and a Google?
                        \_ Hotbot?  Hotbot is a property of Wired Digital which
                           failed _two_ IPO's and was eventually gobbled up by
                           Lycos.  I hope you weren't implying that "Hotbot"
                           was somehow a successful (or unsuccessful) company.
                           It was nothing more than a service once owned by
                           Wired and now Lycos.  And yes, Stanford has more
                           startups which are more successful.
                             -worked there, only mildly bitter now, recovering
                        \_ Stanford: Sun, Yahoo
                           \_ Don't forget Cisco.
                           Berkeley: Inktomi, Ingres
                           Which looks more successful to you?
                           \_ Golly, sounds like Berkeley!!!11 Stanfurd sukz!1
                              SV is packed with zillions of Farmer startups.
                              You can count the Cal startups on your thumbs.
                              And yes even though most of the Farmers will
                              fail, many will not.  They won't all be Yahoos
                              but you don't have to be Yahoo to be considered
                              successful.  "There can be only one.>ka-chunk!<"
2000/2/1 [Recreation/Humor, Industry/Startup] UID:17395 Activity:kinda low
1/31    Anyone here work for Scient?
        \_ yep. -tcmoore
           \_ wanna hook-up? :)
             \_ Volkert, is that you?
                \_ um, is this like, a 3 person company joke?
                   \_ presumably, this is  ...ology, the organization
                      that regularly scans websites and shuts them down
                      for unauthorized use of their trademarks.
                        \_ Get a web browser, twink.
        \_ yes. dyu.
        \_ Wow.  The enemy.  Perhaps when you're done without innovatively
           named companies like Scient, you can move on to Viant, Lucent,
           Agilent, or Aquent.
            \_ Hey, you got a problem with Lucent?
               \_ Just the naming company that produced that, and so many
                  other sparkling Namients.
        \_ Are people who work for Scient called Scientologists?
           \_ No.
              \_ well, I think it would be funny if they were...
2000/1/31-2/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:17385 Activity:moderate
1/31    Anyone here work for Scient..?
        \_ yep. -tcmoore
           \_ wanna hook-up? :)
             \_ Volkert, is that you?
                \_ um, is this like, a 3 person company joke?
                   \_ presumably, this is  ...ology, the organization
                      that regularly scans websites and shuts them down
                      for unauthorized use of their trademarks.
        \_ yes. dyu.
        \_ Wow.  The enemy.  Perhaps when you're done without innovatively
           named companies like Scient, you can move on to Viant, Lucent,
           Agilent, or Aquent.
            \_ Hey, you got a problem with Lucent?
               \_ Just the naming company that produced that, and so many
                  other sparkling Namients.
        \_ Are people who work for Scient called Scientologists?
2000/1/23-24 [Computer/Rants, Industry/Startup] UID:17300 Activity:nil
1/22    What are some good places where an employee can have his employment
        contract evaluated, and where can one get good advice from an attorney
        about stock options in employment.  I am not sure whether I got a fair
        shake.  THanks
        \_ A lawyer.
2000/1/16-17 [Industry/Startup] UID:17248 Activity:high
1/15    Hewlett Packard/Agilent Technologies infossession Wed January 19.
        4-6pm Soda Hall - Wozniak Lounge.  Refreshments provided.
        \_ "The company that was like a startup will be a
            startup again. Just watch."
                \_ Except for the overwhelming beaurocracy, the ass kissing,
                   the politics, and zero options, and bloat.
        \_ http://www.salon.com/media/col/shal/1999/11/30/naming/index.html
           \_ even after reading that I can't understand HOW they could
              choose such a dumbass name as Agilent.  I hope someone was shot
              over that gaffe.
              \_ I liked the name Agilent, that is until I heard it was
                 based off the adjective "agile"
           \_ And this kind of shit happens when there's just too much money
              floating around this whole industry for _any_ productive use
              thereof
        \_ I liked the head of internet services guy who went off about how
           the name was drawn from his inner child and into the world.  How
           do I get a high paying job to smoke dope all day?
                \_ work for HP
        \_ "Hey kid, want a job?"
                \_ Hey kids, do yourself a favor.  Don't work at some huge
                   corporation for your first job if you can help it.  Yes,
                   the university counts as a huge corporation, only worse.
2000/1/5-7 [Industry/Startup] UID:17165 Activity:high
1/5     Thinking about joining a startup. Do you think now is a good time
        to jump to startups, since many companies are overvalued already?
        \_ Not all startups are the same.  It's not like "I'm in a startup",
           end of story.  It's like "I'm in a startup with a good idea, a lot
           of money, run by semi-clueful people, and I have rights to enough
           options to retire if they successfully go public" vs. "I'm in yet
           another dead startup".  The latter is the norm.  Let us know if you
           find the former.  -working in latter
           \_ this sodan has the right idea.  IMHO everyone in CS should take
              a corporate, a startup, and an academic job (or be a grad
              student) to begin to understand how to assess their long-term
              career goals.  Somewhere along the line you'll also understand
              what a loser corporate/startup/academic job is, as well as the
              really cool ones.
                \_ Did academic, did semi-corporate, doing startup now.  The
                   academic thing was ok but _very_ low paying and not very
                   challenging.  I totally slack off like that and end up
                   doing nothing that way.  Bad.  Semi-corporate (mid sized
                   internet company) was terrible.  This company in particular
                   had painfully bad management who did their best to screw up
                   the entire company.  I bailed right before they finally
                   succeeded.  Problem with being in a startup is you're too
                   close to get a really good feeling for how the rest of the
                   world thinks of what you're doing.  I think my current
                   company is totally worthless yet I can see that the market
                   is very likely to shoot our stock into the heavens when we
                   IPO.  Perhaps because I know too much.  Or maybe all
                   startups are this messed up so it doesn't matter.  See you
                   on the other side of retirement!!
                        \_ CoSine sucks
                           \_ CoSine?
           \_ be a grad student, intern summers. startup on side.
                \_ shut up nweaver
                \_ you can't seriously do a 'startup on side'.  Startups take
                   _more_ work, not less than a corporate job.
2000/1/4-5 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17159 Activity:high
1/4     I want to do business with a financial services firm that's pretty
        new.  Is there a way to check if they're legit and won't take my
        money and run?  The company is not publically traded, it's a small
        LLC (limited liability company).  Anyway to check on such a firm?
        Thanks a lot.
        \_ Is it FDIC insured?
           \_ It's not FDIC insured.  I'm dealing with a hedge fund, and
              I'm not sure if the SEC is involved.
        \_ If they deal with securities, i.e. stocks and bonds, and they
           are not regulated by the SEC, then its NOT LEGIT
              \_ How do you come to know them? If you cant easily find
                 information about them, i'd be very wary.
                 Are they in Money or Fortune magazine?
                 Are you investing in the hedge fund or something else?
                 If the former, do they offer you such a big
                 "guaranteed" return that a more conventional (known)
                 firm cant help you?
                 Dont they give you a prospectus? brochure at least?
        \_ Check on the people who run it. Their history, background,
           experience.  Even check the BBB or the equivalent.
           Who licenses these firms? SEC?
        \_ Do a Dun and Bradstreet lookup.
1999/12/29 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17117 Activity:nil
12/29   Just curious: any VA Linux stock owners who bought at market (290)?
        Down to ~176.
1999/12/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:17077 Activity:low
12.21   Anyone heard of a telco called Level3?  any supp info that's not
        on their webpage?
        \_ yes, I even know a few folks who work there.
           \_ so is it just another buzzword compliant startup with lots of
              $$$ trying to build voice over ip?  Looks like they want to
              get rid of the sonel layer completely,
              do you think they're a good buy (stock)
              or a good company idea?
        \_ Their datacenter in SF is pretty good.
1999/12/18 [Industry/Startup] UID:17063 Activity:kinda low
12/18   Hello, I work at a small internet startup, and all I can
        do is think about my stock options, at least twice a day,
        I think about how much I'd get if they were worth $$$, and we
        IPO, and I think about how many stocks my coworkers have, and
        whether they have more, and whether I should ask for more
        since I now only have 0.25% of the company and I feel I am vastly
        overperform them.  Stock Options! Is something
        wrong with me?   -daytrader
        \_ If *all* you do is think of your options, pretty soon you won't
           be "vastly overperform" your co-workers.  Then you'll get fired,
           and you'll have other things to worry about besides options --
           like how to stop those damn punk kids who live on the other side
           of your underpass from stealing *your* shopping carts all the
           time.  Damn kids!
1999/11/20-22 [Industry/Startup] UID:16929 Activity:high
11/19   Base Pay?  Stock Options? Big Bonuses?  What's your top priority?
        \_ good management, pleasant co-workers, respect...
           \_ This goes without saying.  Wouldn't work under any other
              conditions.  Once those basic conditions are met, it depends.
        \_ happiness+intellectual wealth. DOWN WITH INDUSTRY AND MATERIALISM!
           GO ACADEMIA AND THE ABSTRACT HAPPINESS!!! INDUSRY SUCKS
           AND ACADEMIA GOOD!!!!!!! B1FF R3WLS!!!
           \_ Can I get any Cal stock options?  Is there an IPO planned for
              Cal anytime soon?  If you can get me at least 25k options over
              3-4 years, I'm in!  GO BEARS IPO!
              \_ <DEAD>Stanford.com<DEAD> seems more likely the <DEAD>cal.com<DEAD>
1999/11/20-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16928 Activity:high
11/19   What's the difference between stock warrants and stock options?
        \_ You can think of warrants as buying stock on margin.  Sort of.
           Options you get as an employee/slave.  Ask your broker for details
           on warrants and why you can't afford to risk buying them.
           \_ Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: warrants have an expiration date.
              You must exercise them by that date or they simply expire and
              then have zero value.
        \_ You make no sense. Options have expiration dates too. Options
           are not only for employee/slave/consultant-types. You can buy
           them on the open market as well. The difference between options
           and warrants is rather fine.
           \_ The expiration date on your options is different because you
              didn't shell out big bucks for the options.  They have no
              value at any point until you vest and then exercise them.  You
              paid real cash out of your pocket for warrants and then get X
              many months to call them in which might possibly be at a huge
              loss.  The difference between options and warrants is huge.
              People, *please* get a broker.  Don't ask for this sort of
              advice on the motd.  You're likely as not to be told the wrong
              thing or get invited on a bike ride or linux install party.
              \_ You contnue to make no sense. If you bought your options
                 on the open market you still can lose big. Like I said
                 the line is fine. Talk to your accountant. (Not your broker.)
                 \_ Your open market purchase is not the same as employee
                    options.  Talk to your own broker or accountant then come
                    back and you can educate us all and explain how warrants
                    and options are the same thing.
                 \_ Man, at least the other guy has some clue.  You just
                    keep shoving your foot in your mouth up to your ankles.
                    keep shoving your feet in your mouth up to your ankles.
                    Last I checked, SHARES are bought on the open market.
                    Stock OPTIONS are usually issued by a company at a price
                    which is fixed or discounted at no cost to the employee.
                    They are usually vested (made available to the employee)
                    at a some rate which varies from company to company.  Once
                    they are available, you have the OPTION (hence the name,
                    fuckwit) of exercising them at the agreed upon cost IF the
                    current market value is such that it would be profitable
                    to do so.  Reminds me of something my dad used to say to
                    me: "If you don't know what you're talking about, SHUT THE
                    FUCK UP!"  I think the other guy (the one you insist makes
                    no sense you freaking moron) has a good point when he says
                    you should be speaking with professionals rather than
                    listening to idiots like youself blather like the ESL
                    students that they are.
        \_ there are also different tax implications --oj
        \_ http://www.invest-faq.com
        \_ My employer offers me ISOs as well as warrants as part of
           compensation.  He said warrants are almost the same as ISOs, and I
           will vest them just like I vest ISOs.

motd chopped from here on down.
\_ Good riddance!
\_ Have you looked into doing circumcisions as a business venture?
   \_ oh stop.  you're getting me all hot and bothered.
   \_ yeah but it was low pay, dirty work, no real IPO chances, and the market
      is already flooded with others doing the same work for near nothing.
      \_ ohmygod.  OHMYGOD.  OH...OHHHHH!!!  *gasp, pant*  See?  Now lookit
         what you've gone an made me do....
1999/11/15-16 [Industry/Startup] UID:16888 Activity:kinda low
11/15   I'm coming to Berkeley to interview for my company on friday.  The
        company is Inventa, which is an internet consulting company.  Check
        out http://www.Inventa.com for more information.  In brief, we are in the
        business-to-business eCommerce market.  We are looking for people
        with technical skills, read C++ or Java.  Our competitors are Scient,
        Viant, and Sapient, but we are not yet public.  In my experience this
        is a great company that has given me great opportunities.  If you
        have any questions you can reach me at andreas@inventa.com  -Andreas
        \_ Usualy the list of B2B players includes Active Software,
           Neon, TibCo, Vitria (at least until they die), and newcomer
           Oracle.  Never heard of Inventa.
           \_ I believe they are like a system integrator. I don't think
              they have a real product. Just resell service..
           \_ Read their website.  They aren't really a B2B company
              but that's the hot buzzword right now so they use it.
              They are yet another web deployment/customization service with
              a specialty in eCom.
1999/11/8 [Industry/Startup] UID:16843 Activity:high
11/06   I didn't like the motd.  I sure as hell didn't like Adobe being on
        there.  Nothing personal.  I just don't like the way the company
        name sounds when spoken aloud.
        \_ "Elbereth!"
        \_ What company name do you like to hear spoken aloud?
                \_ Most anything else is ok, but Abode just bugs me.
                   \_ 'Abode' bothers you also?
1999/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic, Industry/Startup] UID:16838 Activity:kinda low
11/05   CNN says that Amazon and Starbucks are killing mom&pop stores.
        We must boycott Amazon and Starbucks!!!
        \_ No, we must boycott mom&pop stores which over charge you in
           exchange for nothing more than some outmoded feel goodism.  When
           you can only buy cooks from one company, software from one company,
           food from one company, etc. the world will be a better place just
           like Switzerland.
        \_ I say boycott Le Petit Market (that little store down the street
           from Soda Hall). That guys a jerk. His store is just an over-
           sized vending machine. I went in there almost everyday for a while
           and when I finally won a free Mtn Dew under a cap, he charged me
           tax to redeem it. Bastard.
           \_ The guy at Petit Market is cool.  You sound like one of the
              whiney underage drinkers he chases out and refuses to sell to
              who leave his store calling him an asshole after shop lifting
              just to "punish him" for not selling you cheap beer.  Waah, waah,
              waah, you big baby.  I'm not impressed with your silly baby Mtn.
              Dew whine.  Waaaaaaah!  Tell it to someone who gives a shit.
1999/10/24-26 [Industry/Startup] UID:16755 Activity:high
10/22   Adobe is holding a College Open House next Thursday night (10/28) at
        our headquarters in downtown San Jose, for those of you who are into
        that new-college-grad-searching-for-job thing.  More details are
        posted in http://ucb.org.csua and other relevant newsgroups; E-mail me if
        you have any questions. -- kahogan
        \_ When are you coming on campus? I'm interested but am busy that night.
        \_ Is it just me or are companies recruiting earlier?
        \_ So you think this sys admin farm (CSUA) is a good place to recruit?
           \_ For cheap inexperienced but enthusiastic labor, sure.  Why pay
              $100k+ for someone who knows what they're doing when you can have
              two NCG CSUA members and have enough left over for a decent
              hiring bonus to bring in the $100k+ guy after to clean up?
           \_ Infosession on Nov. 11 (more details later on time and place),
              interviews at career center on Nov. 16 & 17.  -- kahogan
        \_ As a new hire in a big ass company, how many years do I have to
           spend debugging and testing before I can start doing something
           interesting?
                \_ 1.5 years in startups and then you'll be doing much more
                   interesting work at *any* company than you would otherwise
                   as a new college big-company-only wage slave.  Day one at
                   any startup would be better than what you're doing now.
                   You might as well work for the university.
                                --been there, smarter now
                   \_ startups== lotsawork, not much pay.
                        \_ You're at the wrong startup.  --low work, high pay
                        \_ most startups require a ton of work an half a
                           brain.  after talking to people from trilogy
                           and lame ass startups i've found that most
                           of these people don't know what they're talking
                           about and aren't technically apt.  all they know
                           how to do is stupid web pages and asp shit.
                           \_ known as "not doing proper research on your
                              company before signing papers".  It's your own
                              fault if you end up at a startup like that.
                           \_ that is what is known as a lame startup.  There
                              are good ones out there but you have to be
                              willing to look.  My advice is spend a year
                              or two in a not so glorious job learning the
                              way the real world works (and why it sucks
                              and why a good job is a must if you want
                              to sane) and making contacts and then once you
                              have saved up some money and don't need to take
                              a job right away, start looking and be choosy.
                              Oh and if you have to convince yourself that
                              you won't hate a certain job, you will hate it.
                                \_ Totally right on with that last line. 100%
          \_ I can't speak for other peoples' experience in *other* big-ass
             companies, but at Adobe I was doing something interesting within
             my first week.  Over the two-and-a-half years since I graduated
             from Cal, I've had my own big chunk of two major products
             (feature-owning, from spec-writing to implementation), as well
             as a part in some researchy-prototype stuff on the side.  My
             occasional corporate flack).  -- khogan
             experience hasn't been perfect, but I'm definitely happy and not
             bitter (as evidenced by my willingness to come back to Cal as an
             occasional corporate flack).  -- kahogan
                \_ Most large companies won't be like this.  Like all rules
                   (except this rule) there are exceptions.  In short, whether
                   you're applying to anything from IBM to http://Dinky-Startup.Com,
                   you must investigate during the interview process with your
                   potential manager/boss what they think you'll be doing on a
                   daily basis in the short and long term and what they think
                   short/long term means.  For me, short term is 2 weeks.  For
                   people used to a slower pace, short term is two years. You
                   must question, question, question.  Questions won't offend
                   and will only make you look less like a NCG idiot.  Just so
                   you know where I'm coming from, I hop from startup to
                   startup just to not be bored at work.  I haven't noticed
                   that large companies pay better than startups, but in
                   deference to kahogan I'll grant I've nveer applied to his
                   company.
1999/10/21-22 [Industry/Startup] UID:16744 Activity:nil
10/21   Startup Jobs Fair 4-6pm this Thursday in Woz Lounge.
        20 Startups, $700 of Free Pizza, and you!
1999/10/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:16701 Activity:high
10/13   Let's say that I work at company X, and it offers excellent health
        plan for my family. My son is weak and requires a lot of
        medical attention, and without company X's health insurance, we
        would not survive. Now, if I switch to company Y, how does the
        transfer of insurance work?
        \_ It doesn't.  The insurance from company X expires.  YOu need to
           use insurance from company Y to pay your son's future medical
           expenses.
                \_ Learn about COBRA.
                   \_ COBRA doesn't last forever.  This guy needs a stable
                      corporate job with a suit where no one gets fired and
                      no one goes out of business.
        \_ cobra will be available at X's cost plus a tiny amount for
        18 months, in general.
1999/9/30-10/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:16635 Activity:nil
9/30    I work at a router company in Fremont. I have this urge to steal
        toilet paper and whatever company supply I can find. Is this
        a particularly unhealthy behavior?
        \_ It shows you're unhappy working there and feel like they 'owe' you
           something, so you have this need to steal petty items to try to
           compensate.  Either you're a klepto or more likely just need a new
           job.
1999/9/24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16584 Activity:high
9/23    Hi, I graduated from UCB in '96 and have 3 years work experience.
        I was recently offered a position that pays $80K from an established
        public company.  Is that high or low?  Thanks.  Please do not troll
        my message.  This is a serioues inquiry.
        \_ I graduated then too, and make a little bit less.  Any stock options?
        \_ yes it is high or low.  it depends.  --oj
        \_ Nope.
        \_ why even bother?  Its all a big waste of time.
        \_ I graduated after, haveless experience, make slightly more and have
           a pile of options.  As always, options may or may not have future
           value.  The cash is real, though.
        \_ Could you be a little bit more general?  Jeezz.  If this is a
           position as a accounting clerk in Stockton then your getting a
        \_ Possibly.  At least I know the difference between
           compu-porn dept.  Thanks for the thought, though.
           good deal, if it's for a CIO position in Santa Clara your getting
           ripped.
           \_ It's the motd.  It's either a sysadmin or coder job.
           \_ it's the amount of money your mom pays me every year so that i
              fuck her the way your pop can't.
        \_  hey, which one of you motherfuckers nuked my response?  That
         singly responsible individual...FUCK YOU.  and to the motherfucker
         getting the 80K, 1)  don't be such a greedy bitch, there's
         plenty of people who don't ever earn half of what you are going
         to be making and 2)  whether or not you want to actually take
         it depends on how much they're going to make you bleed for that
         80K.
         \_ I did.  It was rambling and stupid and near zero content.
1999/9/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:16494 Activity:moderate
9/9     I'm joining a startup that's going through their 3rd round of VC
        funding and there's already about 100 employees.  What should I
        expect in terms of # of shares?  What is common?  And also, is it
        ok for me to ask how many shares outstanding they have?  E.g.  if
        they have 100 million shares and I get 10K, and the company is
        bought out for $400 million, then it's not worth it for me.
        \_ # of shares varies a lot.  depends on your position (peon vs VP).
           depends on whether you're taking a salary cut too.  they shouldn't
           have any problem telling you # of outstanding shares but guess
           about how many shares you think they'll have when they IPO/get
           acquired -oj
        \_ if you can rack up around $500k then it's worth it.
        \_ Yes, as the above asy, you're totally in the right to ask how many
           shares are outstanding.  I'd rather have 10 shares of 100 than
           1 million of 500 billion.  Without this knowledge, the # of shares
           you're offered is meaningless.  It lacks context.  As far as what
           you should expect, well that not only depends on your title, but
           how well you negotiate.  Remember, there are absolutely no standards
           regarding this stuff.  Don't let them give you any BS about standard
           average wages or # of shares or anything like that.  It's total BS.
           You'll get what you negotiate for.  Don't work for less than you're
           willing to work for.  Remember this is still an employees' market.
           Stick it to them while you can, bc later after they import a bunch
           of foreign fucks, you'll be screwed.  Get it while it's good.
           \_ Thanks. I know that the later you join the less you get.  That's
              why I mentioned 3rd round of funding and 100 employees.  So there
              is no standard for this stuff eh?  I should just flat out ask
              them, "hey how much is this worth if we get bought out at $X
              million dollars?"
                \_ Not exactly like that but you need the numbers to do your
                   own calculations.  As an employer, I'd expect you can figure
                   out how to use a 4 function calculator.  The more questions
                   you ask, the more they're aware you're not going to be
                   easily taken for a ride.  One thing though and this is the
                   hard part: try not to squeeze them for every last penny.
                   Give a little at the end if you don't want any bad feelings
                   for later if there's more stock, raises, or other bonuses
                   going out.  Also, work environment is really important for
                   many folks.  For me, I'd never work at a place with a suit
                   n tie dress code and that didn't let me come in after lunch.
                   But that's just me.  I highly suggest writing down on paper
                   with real ink exactly what you want from them and the
                   minimum you're willing to accept in various combinations.
                   If they don't hit your minimum mark, hold firm, don't take
                   it.  You'll be miserable if you do.  Some simple stand firm
                   paper/ink negotiating has always gotten me pretty close to
                   my desires rather than my minimums.  Getting other offers
                   is always a good idea too.  Try not to fall into the,
                   "Well, how much are you looking for?" trap.  Ask what
                   the hiring range is in response but don't be rude.  Never,
                   ever, but never be rude, no matter what.  Good luck.  (the
                   ink/paper numbers are for yourself.  don't tell them the
                   figures.)
        \_ A startup that is at its 3rd round of VC funding is fucked
           and isn't going to go anywhere. Don't rely on your options being
           worth anything, ever, so don't worry about it.
1999/8/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16362 Activity:kinda low
8/21    Does anyone have any pointers to a good resource with information
        on:

        o  relocation packages (what's typical, what isn't)
        o  acceptable amount of time between being made an offer and actually
           accepting it

        I'm about to accept a job offer for a place down in El Lay, and
        was wondering what would be "typical" for them to cover.
        \_ note this is taxable income
        o  acceptable amount of time between being made an offer and actually
           accepting it
        I'm about to accept a job offer for a place down in El Lay, and
        was wondering what would be "typical" for them to cover.
        \_ I was offered $4k to relocate as part of my hiring bonus which I
           had to return if I didn't stay 4 years (yeah right).  Needless to
           say I accepted a different offer.  You shouldn't leave them hanging
           for more than a week at most unless you've warned them you're still
           interviewing elsewhere.
        \_ Go to yahoo's career site and you'l find out the "exchange rate"
           between SF and LA. If you get paid 50K in LA, then it is roughly
           58K in SF. Your 4K relocation does not sound good. I know a MS gal
                         \_ I wasn't the original poster.  -Mr. 4k package
           who got 5K bonus plus 4000 shares of options (and the stock went
           up $10 only after a year). She left the company in less than a
           year, paid back the 4K relocation, and kept the options. Go figure.
           \_ Oh, MS = masters, not M$. There's a ~5K difference in pay.
1999/8/13-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:16308 Activity:high
8/13    Have you sold your Redhat IPO shares yet?
        \_ You can use the money to buy ASWX ... there is a company with
           actual revenue in the IPOs of this week.  Big upside potential
           if you aren't a day-trading moron and can hold the stock.
        \_ yes, at $89. thanks much.
           \_ i always thought that ipo's usually dip down after the first
              day surge.
                \_ Ebay did the opposite.  There are many different patterns.
                \_ It's the stock market.  There's no science or predictable
                   factors involved.
                   \_ You mean my double major in economics means nothing?
                        \_ It might mean something for running a business but
                           it means nothing for determining whether a net IPO
                           is going anywhere and for how long.
              \_ That's for your average stupid overinflated piece of drivel.
                       more. quit whining.
                 RedHat is better than 90% of most of the "internet IPO" crap
                 out there. But I expect it will eventually stabilize at

                 50-60, then gradually climb up to 80 again over the next
                 6-12 months.
                 \_ Oh really?  What makes RH so special other than fanatic
                    followers who are mostly cash poor?  How much do they
                    make every quarter and what's their profit margin?
                    \_ Have you ever seen that Simpsons spoof episode
                       where Homer starts his own "Internet Company" that
                       does nothing.  Well, that exactly what most
                       Internet stocks are.  Seriously, what the hell
                       does Halcyonsoft do?
                        \_ Ask them.
                        \_ I don't see what could be more clear than their
                           own proclamation:
                           Halcyon Software, a leading
                           developer of Active Server
                           Framework technology, gives IT
                           professionals the ability to
                           deploy Web-based applications
                           with unrivaled compatibility
                           across multiple server platforms.
                        -giggle
                    \_ You know that has nothing to do with stock price any
                       more. quit whining. Oh, and Dell is offering Redhat
                       on their computers, dummy.
                       \_ If nothing means anything anymore, than again, I ask
                          what makes RH so damned special?  It was stated as a
                          fact that RH "is better than 90% of most of the
                          'internet IPO' crap out there".  Better in what way?
                          Just by the mere fact that it went up?  Is this a
                          post-facto determination?  Had it gone no where,
                          you'd be the first saying a RH IPO was stupid?
                          \_ it was definately a PRE-determination,
                             seeing as how I had the forsight to buy at $50
                             \_ Well, that's nice.  Now then, what makes RH
                                fall into the non-crap 10% other than OS
                                religious fanatacism?  Still waiting on
                                this one.  I don't expect a non-fanatic answer
                                because there isn't one.  There is *nothing*
                                special about RH and it sure as hell isn't
                                worth $5b as a company.  That's ridiculous.
                                Disgusting as they are, at least MS sells a
                                lot of it's product for a much higher price
                                than it costs them to produce it.  RH does
                                no such thing.
                                \_ They do a lot of front end development
                                   contracted by people like SGI and Dell.
                                   They also do a lot of consulting and tech
                                   support which MS doesn't do no matter
                                   what they tell you.  In other words, it's
                                    not just another stupid company putting
                                    up another stupid web page claiming
                                    to be the official portal to the Internet
                                        \_ They have backing from Intel,
                                        IBM, and Dell. Enough said.
                       \_ that means shit if nobody buys these preloads...
                          \_ they probably will. otherwise, dell marketing
                             isn't stupid enough to preload their computers
                             with something nobody buys.  look at sgi, they're
                             developing now for linux and ditching their
                             nt line completely because it was "unprofitable"
                                \_ Dell always gets it right?  *ALWAYS*? Why
                                   this assumption that big companies are run
                                   by smart people?  And are smart people
                                   *ALWAYS* right?  No.
                                        \_Big companies can spend enough
                                        money to make it right.
           \_ i'm going to kick myself for not signing up with etrade.
                \_ don't.  It sucks.  It was a serious fluke if you were
                   on ETrade and didn't get bumped from the Red Hat IPO
                   list.  ETrade sucks.  I'm moving to Schwab.
                   \_ Don't. Etrade sucks less(tm)
                      I missed the IPO window. I still managed to buy
                      at 50 (through "regular" trading, with etrade)
                      ["Double your money, double your fun..."]
                      My trade went through INSTANTLY, and I was
                      notified of it immediately.
                      Schwab sucks.
                   \_ etrade sucks less than schwab.
1999/7/31-8/3 [Industry/Startup] UID:16214 Activity:kinda low
7/30    I need a job too.  http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~aspolito/res3.txt
        \_ Drop all the pre-graduation crap.  Also, "company ran out of
           money"?!  That doesn't make you look like a genius since you
           joined a dying company.  Objective is silly.  Just say, "Looking
           for XXXXXX position at small startup company".
           \_ Um, what's wrong with pre-graduation achievement?
                \_ Nothing in particular but it shows lack of experience to
                   put pre-grad stuff on.  Unless your academic work was
                   something really stellar, it only highlights lack of
                   industry experience.
           \_ objectives suck.  The company ran out of money is there because
              I've been asked way to many times "Why are you leaving Spheresoft
              so soon?"  It looks bad that I didn't even last a year.  Oh
              people do join companies that die soon after.  It happens.
              To smart people even.  I joined right when they peaked.  (They
              were doing real well, added 4 people (which was a third of the
              company) and were trying to do sometihng new.  They gambled
              and lost.  So did I.  Oh and umm, some of that "pre-graduation
              crap" is pretty important.  -aspo
                \_ Ok, whatever.  I'm sure you're perfectly right about all
                           \_ if you need to ask, you don't know
                           \_ yer mom
                   of everything at all times and don't need advice.
                   \_ As someone who has hired many people based on their
                      resumes, for the field aspolito is in, I will say
                      that aspolito is correct.  -blojo
                        \_ What field is that?  Palm Pilot app coder?
                          \_ yes, let's call "embedded software developers"
                             palm pilot coders.
                             \_ Proof is in the pudding, baby.  Why can't
                                he get a job?
                                \_ Because he's in new york.
                                \_ cause I just started looking and I'm already
                                   getting offers at places in New York for
                                   places that I would like to work at if I
                                   don't relocate so if I want to move back to
                                   the BA I gotta start looking fast. -aspo
                                   \_ Stay in NY.  We'll all be happier that
                                      way.
1999/7/20-23 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:16172 Activity:nil
7/20    All you open source hackers out there.  Here's a bit of news you
        might be interested in. Yet another reason to contribute to GNU.
        http://slashdot.org/articles/99/07/20/2129218.shtml
        \_ when is the damn IPO.. I dont see mention of it
           \_ I believe Aug 6 or 9.
              \_ http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990716/p0.html
1999/6/19-21 [Industry/Startup] UID:15986 Activity:nil 55%like:15998
6/18    Unix sysadmin job at pre-IPO startup Yodlee in Sunnyvale.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/Yodlee   -cdaveb
1999/6/15-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:15963 Activity:nil
6/15    Jr level sysadmin position open at Active Software, Inc.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/Activesoftware.
        We are a preIPO startup company however we just filed our
        intent to go public on June 11th so hurry up and apply. -smurf
        \_ At this point your options will be priced close enough
           to the offering price that it really isn't the same as
           joining a real pre-IPO company. -sameer
           \_ I hate when companies reprice after you're hired but before
              they get around to issuing out the stock options.  I "lost"
              about $16/share
              \_ You should complain. You got screwed.
           \_ I bought Microsoft at market price quite a few years after it
              IPO'ed.  I'm not an employee and never had options.  That didn't
              stop me from becoming a millionaire.  You don't need to work
              your ass off at a startup early on for cheap stock options to
              become rich.  You just need to buy into a good company and have
              the patience to watch it grow over years (or even decades).
                \_ Uh huh... you did this with *what* initial cash?  You need
                   cash, patience, and a good set of companies.  M$ could just
                   as easily have tanked and you'd be fucked.  And what
                   happens when the baby boomers start pulling their money in
                   a few years to pay for their retirements?  The stock market
                   is *not* free money.
                        \_ Patience? Fuck that! I want to be rich now!
1999/5/19-20 [Consumer/Audio, Industry/Startup] UID:15843 Activity:very high
5/19    Does anyone else also get charged $4 by some company called
        USBI for 800 service on their phone bill? WTF is up with that?
        How about the $6 FCC charge for interstate calling?
        \_ how about getting billed $7 for that, even when you don't
           make interstate calls, and have no longdistance carrier.
        \_ No, but I got charged $19.95 by a company called Entertainment
           Unlimited. Maybe it was something like that.
           \_ You damn sheep. Call up the phone company and complain about it!
               They have a procedure to report, and challenge fraudulent
               charges like this, but you have to follow them.  Its you sheep
               that don't do so that allow those companies to get away with it.
                \_ Will you get punitive damage?
                \_ Sprint slammed me and was ordered by FCC to reimburse
                   me $200 by FCC although the actual damange was close
                   to $400!  Now they refuse to honor it, what can
                   I do? Can I sue for punitive damage since it has
                   cause A LOT of stress on me?
                   \_ Sprint is allowed to ignore the FCC so you're screwed.
                      No, dumbshit, keep complaining to the FCC, duh.
                      \_ FCC takes months to reply, might as well get a lawyer
                        \_ For $200?  So it takes months, so what?
                           \_ you should see Payback.
                          \_ so you have -$2000 after legal fees
                   \_ Try your state's PUC.
1999/5/18-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:15833 Activity:high
5/17    Has anyone here ever moonlighted in a 2nd job on the weekend?  I'm
        considering doing that. I like my regular job, but I want to do
        something else as a freelance on my free time.  What should I look for?
        Should I asked to be paid in cash?  Or stock options?  Any advice is
        greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
        \_ You're saying you have no life outside work, right?  And don't
           want one?
          \_ That should be obvious from the existence of a soda account.
                \_ No, it's all about penis size.
1999/5/11-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:15794 Activity:nil
5/11    Announcing the CSUA Recruiting Network!
        Alums:  Do you work for a company that's always looking for new people?
                Send CSUA member resumes to your recruiters and earn
                recruiting bonuses!  (And if you decide to donate some of it
                back to the CSUA, we won't complain.)
        New grads:  Very few people are hired for just sending a resume to HR.
                Instead give it to alums who can put it on the inside track and
                who can help you find out what positions are available.
        \_ Okay, where are the resumes located?  We are looking for QA, UI
           engineers -- szs
        New grads:  Very few people are hired for just sending a resume to HR.
                Instead give it to alums who can put it on the inside track and
                who can help you find out what positions are available.
1999/5/2-5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:15729 Activity:nil
5/1     -- * --   F    R    E    E    -- * --    F    O    O    D   -- * --
        Tuesday the 4th will be a day free-food-lovers will long remember.
        From 11am - 2pm, CSUA CS BBQ.  Come rub elbows with your professors!
        From 4pm - 6pm, CSUA Startup Jobs Fair.  Over 20 Startups will be
        fighting for tablespace in the Woz Lounge.  There can be only one.
        -- * --   F    R    E    E    -- * --    F    O    O    D   -- * --
1999/4/27-5/1 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:15699 Activity:nil
4/19    Know of a growing startup that would like to recruit at Cal, but
        can't afford to pay the ILP $1000-$7500?  Tell them to join the CSUA
        Startup Jobs Fair.  More info:  <DEAD>www.csua/startup.html<DEAD>
1999/3/22-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:15630 Activity:high
3/22    Job description posted in /csua/pub/jobs/Amazon.com  --tsang
        \_ just be sure to ask randal why he left, despite high
           monetary reward soon to come.
           \_ so why did randal leave?
           \_ at least this job is in a different department, with
              different scheduling dynamics.  but, yes, getting the
        \_ tsang must be another millionaire on paper.  :-)
        \_ Incidentally, go to http://Amazon.com and check out the price of
           Bill Gates' latest book: List: $729, Our Price: $504. heh.
              "lowdown" does seem like a good idea.  --tsang
              \_ I don't know exactly what tsang has heard about
                 "scheduling dynamics", but I basically left Amazon
                 because my manager thought they could control my life,
                 and when I looked at switching departments I saw the exact
                 same thing happening everywhere else in the company.
                 (Note that when I asked these questions before I signed
                  the answers I got turned out to pretty much be lies)
                 There are plenty of people who are willing to give up
                 their life in exchange for AMZN stock options, I wasn't
                 one of them.  If you are, Amazon can be an exciting
                 and rewarding place to work.  If your priorities don't
                 all line up on a balance sheet then the most prevelant
                 comment I've heard (from all sorts of people with all
                 sorts of experience) is, "Amazon treats their employees
                 worse than any other high tech company out there."
                 Feel free to mail me if you have any more questions.
                                                -randal
              \_ will i get 10,000 shares of AMZN at strike price of $1
                 per share?
                 \_ if the stock price is $1/share the day you join, and
                    they decide to grant you 10k shares...
        \_ What does it mean by "Intelligence can be substituted"?  Does it
           mean if I am dumb, I can substitute that with hardworking?
           \_ No.  Consider the semicolon...  --tsang
1999/3/8-9 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:15563 Activity:very high
3/8     Soda stock tip of the week:  CMGI.  It's red hot baby!  Up 47 1/2
        today.  Get in because this is the next EBAY!
        \_ get in now and your sure to lose your shirt, todays Internet stock
           rally was good news for the whole sector, but these specific
           stocks have seen their high for the immediate future. Beware the hype!
        \_ Yes.  Get in now that it's up 30%.  Makes sense.
        \_ Yet, another overvalued stock.
        \_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of options waiting to sell.
        \_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of CMGI options waiting to
           sell.
        \_ CMGI closed at 199, EBAY closed at 171, why would you go out on a limb
           and speculate that CMGI will be the next EBAY when it's already
           worth more?
1999/2/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:15384 Activity:very high
2/9     Hey, I got offered a position at a large consulting company
        as a manager.  They want to pay 120k.  Is that good?  How
        much do other managers at the big 5 make?  I graduated
        from Cal in '96.
        \_ i graduated from cal in '97 and i am already being paid 120k.
        \_ Damn, I think I need to be looking for a new job...
           \_ I dropped out from cal. The startup I was in was bought.
              I'm a millionaire.
                \_ furthermore, I have more money, so I am a better person
                   and a happier person. Money is everything.
                   \_ Well, I have wheelbarrows full of money and a
                      *HUGE* penis.  Chicks dig me.  So there.
                        \_ Ah, so you're an even better person. Congrats.
                      \_ You have a huge penis in a wheelbarrow? you're
                         some sicko.
                      \_ I have 5 sheets of acid.
        \_ I graduated from cal in '93 and I am still only making 80K. :-(
           \_ It's okay. This guy is going to hate his job and/or company
              really quickly. I hope it's not Arthur Andersen... --dim
           \_ Dammit, I'm running behind. need that yearly eval now...
           \_ 120k? 80k? 1M? Uh, time for me to look for a new job!
        \_ Congratulations!  That's an exceptional offer for *any* recent
           college grad -- so congrats whether or not you to decide to
           take it. --chris
        \_ Managers make that much in the Big5.  Do you really want to make the
           transition from individual contributorship to management?  It's
           a tough ride (get some training), and being a manager isn't all
           that fun, either.  You have to take it from both ends, and keep
           your sanity all at once.  And...your glory is not really your
           own...but something you receive vicariously through your staff.
1999/1/29-31 [Industry/Startup] UID:15324 Activity:nil
1/29    Golden Shackle-- the belief that if you stay long enough in the
        company, you will be wealthy. Don't let this corporate myth control
        your life. The book "Do What You Love, and the Money Will Follow" is
        now available at Borders, B&N, Amazon, and other major books stores.
        It is an excellent book. Get it now.
        \_Happiness is for losers.
          \_ money is happiness
        \_ What if you really like your job as well as your company?  -John
           \_ Then the advice doesn't apply to you.  Enjoy your life,
              for you probably will more so than people constantly
              scheming for a slight leg up.
        \_ What if the Golden Shackle belief happens to be true?  How much
           money can make up for a period of unhappiness?
1999/1/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Industry/Startup] UID:15234 Activity:nil
1/13    Company to offer free long-distance phone calls:
        http://www.hotcoco.com/eveningstories/rob18910.htm
1999/1/9 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:15199 Activity:insanely high 69%like:15188
1/7     Today at a company meeting, I overheard a handsome Aryan
        stud engineer saying to his manager in whisper
        "That putzhead is very cute," not knowing I could hear him.
        The problem is, I'm also attracted to him, and
        I see him T & Th's every morning on a weekly basis.  HELP!
        What should I say to him next week, to break the ice?  -
        \_ YOU GUYS ARE SO NOT ORIGINAL. "take him to a movie"? "Buy
           him some coffee"? "Cubicle talk"? Sheesh! You're just going
           to end up looking like all the othim guys. Make him feel
           special. Tell him that recently you've been thinking a lot
           about him when you masturbate.
                \_ just fuck him at the next meeting.
        \_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to have
           him.  Nice guys finish last and rightfully so.  Worm boy!
        \_ Ask him out to lunch.  Or, be a man, just to him cubicle and
           chat with him.  (Cubicle chatting is very common in corporate
           office environment.  Probably one of the easiest ways to get
           to know your co-workers (or break the ice).)  I do envy your
           environment.  In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old women.
           environment.  In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old faggies.
           environment.  In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old faggy.
           \_ I know the feeling. I work at a huge company, and everyone
              is at least 30 years old, married, repulsive, or some combo
              of the above. Then I visited my friend at a small startup.
              Every guy there was at least above ok-looking, with some
              true  stud.
        \_ Oh, hello aaron.
                \_ yeah right. i'd be making his pancakes by now, not
                   asking for help on the soda motd. --aaron
                   \_ aaron, if i say you're cute, will you make me pancakes?
           Step 2: Ask him if she'd like to go to a movie with you.
        \_ Ask him if she's into Japanese bondage and show him your ropes.
        \_ Step 0: Get some guts.
           Step 1: Introduce yourself.
           Step 2: Ask him if he'd like to go to a movie with you.
           meetings with this woman to be a problem.
        \_ Ask him if he's into Japanese bondage and show him your ropes.
                 expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this lady
        \_ Your "problem" is that you see mutual attraction and frequent
           meetings with this faggy to be a problem.
              \_ that's what you get when you call the motd.public
                 expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this faggy
                 out to coffee and make it clear that it is
                 a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
                 \_ Bozo, he's obviously too shy and clueless to do so.
                 will get you one insulted lady.. I would try english,
        \_ say "Anta wa hosoi uguiso da. boku no ie [de] utanasai ?"
           \_ wow, such grace and eloquence, for a common street dog.
                "eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... "  and eventually she'll
                eithis run away or start talking to you.  If she starts
              \_ yoroshiku.
                Mmm, if she's Chinese, just repeat a bunch of strings of
                "jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...."  If she's Korean, try something like,
                "shikuro!", grab his and take his down to the
              \_ Using that politeness level; including Anata (sp)
                 will get you one insulted faggy. I would try english,
        \_ A girl saying that she thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
                 honesty, sincerity  and a single rose if you feel
                 daring; you can make it red ..
              is that the poster can't think of anything to do othis than
        \_ Just go up to him real shy-like, ruffing your hair with your hand
                while looking at the ground before your toes, and say -
              \_ No it doesn't. Esp. if she's native Asian, you hear that
                "eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... "  and eventually he'll
                either run away or start talking to you.  If he starts
                talking to you, then cut to the chase with, "ja, yaroo!"
        \_ Why don't you email his if you're that shy?  The trick is to find
           a way to include his in your social circle at work, whethis that be
                Mmm, if he's baptist, just repeat a bunch of strings of
           you like to send jokes out, maybe include his on the mailing list?
           \_ Yeah, include his on your joke mailing list so that she can
                "jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...."  If he's catholic, try
                "shikuro!", grab him and take him down to the
              virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
                ground. -mtbb
        \_ How do you know she knew you didn't know his language? Perhaps she
                \ dont forget the lobotomy
                she could pretend she didn't know you understood, because
                you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact she's
                been giving you othis signals, yet she doesn't feel it's
                appropriate for his to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
        \_ A guy saying that he thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
        \_ tell his you are gay.  Problem solved.
           imply attraction.
           \_ This certainly _does_ imply attraction.  I think the problem
              is that the poster can't think of anything to do other than
              whine on the MOTD.  My first impression was that it's a troll,
              but everyone's taking it so seriously...
              \_ No it doesn't. Esp. if he's Germanic, you hear that
                 kind of stuff a lot.
        \_ I envy you!!! :-(   -- yuen
        \_ show up to your next meeting naked with a can of crisco.
        \_ Why don't you email him if you're that shy?  The trick is to find
           a way to include him in your social circle at work, whether that be
           through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation.  If
           you like to send jokes out, maybe include him on the mailing list?
           \_ Yeah, include him on your joke mailing list so that he can
              include _you_ on _his_ list of "idiots who mail useless stuff
              to me".  Don't forget those warnings about the Good Times
              virus and bulletins on how he can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
              you're at it.
        \_ How do you know he knew you didn't know his language? Perhaps he
                purposefully said it in a language you understand, but that
                he could pretend he didn't know you understood, because
                you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact he's
                been giving you other signals, yet he doesn't feel it's
                appropriate for him to approach you? Meaning: go ask if he'd
                like to get dinner and a movie sometime, duh.
        \_ tell him you are gay.  Problem solved.
                \_ Three's Company, all over again!
        \_ okay, dude, when you snap out of your little fantasy, post to
           the motd again and ask "how do i stop deluding myself into
           thinking that people find me attractive? it's really ruining my
           score." -ali
           \ leave a dozen roses on his desk... go for the gusto..
1999/1/8-10 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:15188 Activity:insanely high 69%like:15199
1/7     Today at a company meeting, I overheard an attractive asian
        female engineer say to her manager in another language
        "That young man is very cute," not knowing I knew her
        language.  The problem is, I'm also attracted to her, and
        I see her T & Th's every morning on a weekly basis.  HELP!
        What should I say to her next week, to break the ice?  - 2pac#1fan
        \_ YOU GUYS ARE SO NOT ORIGINAL. "take her to a movie"? "Buy
        \_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to
have
           her some coffee"? "Cubicle talk"? Sheesh! You're just going
           to end up looking like all the other guys. Make her feel
           special. Tell her that recently you've been thinking a lot
           about her when you masturbate.
           \_ the last girl I told that to filed a restraining order
              against me.
        \_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to have
           her.  Nice guys finish last and rightfully so.  Worm boy!
        \_ Ask her out to lunch.  Or, be a man, just to her cubicle and
           \_ This
           chat with her.  (Cubicle chatting is very common in corporate
           office environment.  Probably one of the easiest ways to get
           to know your co-workers (or break the ice).)  I do envy your
           environment.  In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old women.
           \_ I know the feeling. I work at a huge company, and everyone
              is at least 30 years old, married, repulsive, or some combo
              of the above. Then I visited my friend at a small startup.
              Every girl there was at least above ok-looking, with some
              truly pretty women.
        \_ Oh, hello aaron.
                \_ yeah right. i'd be making her pancakes by now, not
                   asking for help on the soda motd. --aaron
                 a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
                   \_ aaron, if i say you're cute, will you make me pancakes?
        \_ Step 0: Get some guts.
                 a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting.
-luv_geek
           Step 1: Introduce yourself.
           Step 2: Ask her if she'd like to go to a movie with you.
        \_ Ask her if she's into Japanese bondage and show her your ropes.
        \_ Your "problem" is that you see mutual attraction and frequent
              whine on the MOTD.  My first impression was that it's a troll,
           meetings with this woman to be a problem.
              \_ that's what you get when you call the motd.public
                 expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this lady
                 out to coffee and make it clear that it is
              whine on the MOTD.  My first impression was that it's a
        \_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy?  The trick is to find
           a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that be
           through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation.  If
           you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing list?
troll,
                 a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
                 \_ Bozo, he's obviously too shy and clueless to do so.
              virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
        \_ say "Anta wa hosoi uguiso da. boku no ie [de] utanasai ?"
        \_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps she
           \_ wow, such grace and eloquence, for a common street dog.
              \_ yoroshiku.
        \_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy?  The trick is to
find
                appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
           a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that
be
           through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation.
If
           you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing
list?
        \_ Just go up to her real shy-like, ruffing your hair with your hand
                while looking at the ground before your toes, and say -
                "eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... "  and eventually she'll
              virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!,
while
                either run away or start talking to you.  If she starts
        \_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps
she
                talking to you, then cut to the chase with, "ja, yaroo!"
                Mmm, if she's Chinese, just repeat a bunch of strings of
                "jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...."  If she's Korean, try something like,
                "shikuro!", grab her and take her down to the ground. -mtbb
                appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if
she'd
        \_ A girl saying that she thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
           imply attraction.
           \_ This certainly _does_ imply attraction.  I think the problem
              is that the poster can't think of anything to do other than
              whine on the MOTD.  My first impression was that it's a troll,
              but everyone's taking it so seriously...
              \_ No it doesn't. Esp. if she's native Asian, you hear that
                 kind of stuff a lot.
        \_ I envy you!!! :-(   -- yuen
        \_ show up to your next meeting naked with a can of crisco.
        \_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy?  The trick is to find
           a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that be
           through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation.  If
           you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing list?
           \_ Yeah, include her on your joke mailing list so that she can
              include _you_ on _her_ list of "idiots who mail useless stuff
              to me".  Don't forget those warnings about the Good Times
              virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
              you're at it.
        \_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps she
                purposefully said it in a language you understand, but that
                she could pretend she didn't know you understood, because
                you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact she's
                been giving you other signals, yet she doesn't feel it's
                appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
                like to get dinner and a movie sometime, duh.
        \_ tell her you are gay.  Problem solved.
                \_ Three's Company, all over again!
        \_ okay, dude, when you snap out of your little fantasy, post to
           the motd again and ask "how do i stop deluding myself into
           thinking that people find me attractive? it's really ruining my
           score." -ali
1998/12/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:15150 Activity:nil
12/28   Is there no end?
        10:00 AM Microsoft has acquired FASA Interactive, developers of
        MechCommander and the forthcoming MechWarrior IV, according to
        sources at the company.  Several key members of the company have
        confirmed the deal, and are already making plans to move closer
        to the Redmond, Washington software giant.
        \_ Indented for clueless newbie.
           \_ Thanks, but frankly, I knew and just didn't give a damn.
                -apathetic to your hobgoblinish little needs
        \_ I like Saturday Night Live's Microsoft skit on Micrsoft aquires
           Christmas and will rename the holiday to either Micromas or
           Christmasoft.
        \_ first you forgot to indent, second, why is this news
           we should care about
           \_ I didn't.  I cut'n'pasted it.  Who appointed you the Miss
              Manners of the Motd?  Secondly, if there was a minimal interest
              criteria for motd posts, then we should disable this entirely
              since all of it is crap by your "standards".
1998/12/2-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:15058 Activity:high
12/2    It's December, and my co-op is going to end soon. I am suppose to
        return my badge to the company, but I would like to keep it. Is it
        overly unethical to tell your company, during your very last day,
        that you lost your badge?
        \_ Well, maybe this is flame bait, but don't be such a stooge.
          Corporations will treat you in "unethical" ways many many
          times throught your "professional" life, probabably in ways
          you are either unaware of or too brainwashed to see. So take the
          silly badge, if you want it, and lie to them.  Who cares.
           thing back.  it all depends on how stiff and republican your

        \_ i don't see why it would be unethical since they deactivate your
           \_ HOw do TEKTRONIX color printers compare to HP and XEROX.  Would
              you recommend them?   What do you think of solid ink technology?
              \_ Tek color printers are supposed to be bad ass.  Most of them
                 use thermal wax/thermal dye technology as opposed to laser
                 which gives you fairly decent photographic quality.  Fiery
                 also makes good printers (what Kinkos uses).  Expect to
           only decent mug shot of myself that i have. Actually, they
           never asked for it back.
                 spend a fortune though.  They're no bubble/ink/laser jets.
                 \_ Fiery is PrintServer/RIP bundled with Xerox's,
                    IBM's printers. EFI doesn't make printers.
           badge anyway.  the question is if you can get away with it.
           i interned at tektronix and my boss told me that the company was
           really paraoid about people keeping their badges when they left.
           apparently, they harrass you and stuff until you give the damn
           thing back.  it all depends on how stiff and conservative your
           company is.
        \_ lots of other co-op students pull the same stunt.
           \_ So at least he'll have lots of company while he's spending
              eternity writhing in the flames of hell . . . thieving
              bastard!!!!!
              \_ nark
        \_ if yer manager/admin-person says "It's very, *very* important
           that we control all the badges..." then you return it.
        \_ i still have my sybase badge from several years ago. it's the
           only decent mug shot of me that i have.
        \_ Tell them you lost it now.  They might have to retake the
           picture, etc., and you can turn that one back in on your last day.
        \_ I suggest you simply grow up and return the fucking badge.
           \_ nark
        \_ yeah, after the first half dozen, you don't put sentimental
                value on a piece of plastic.
        \_ If its intel, they don't care, I just kept mine.
        \_ after i left sun i was really depressed that i didn't think to
           connive to keep my badge.  just do it.
        \_ work at a company that doesn't use badges :P
1998/11/6-8 [Finance, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14919 Activity:nil
11/5    So my friend works @ LinkExchange. Does that mean he's rich now that
        M$ bought them for $250M?
        \_ If he's the owner of LinkExhange then he's rich
           if he's just a worker, unless his boss's willing to give him a raise
           he won't be rich.  He may even lose his job if M$ decide not to use
           the old employees...
        \_ If he's the VP there, then he might be rich.  If he's a janitor
           there, probably not.
        \_ my boss (who's the Presid. of that other banner exchange co.)
           tells me LE was venture capital funded, so owners will probably
           get ~ 40% of that $.  It was the venture capitalists who were
           probably pushing hard for the sale.  Remember... the target is
           30 times your initial investment in 5 years if you're a venture
           capitalist. -jctwu
1998/10/25-26 [Industry/Startup] UID:14825 Activity:nil
10/25   Please update  ~dbushong/bin/infocal to reflect spring '99 or at
        least allow for a command line option to specify the semester.
        \_ Why don't you write to dbushong about this?  -- infocal #12 fan
           \_ or why don't you read the usage to see what the command line
              option (which is already there) is.
1998/9/25-26 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14672 Activity:high
9/25    salaried vs. contracting, which is better?
        \_ monthly wage vs. hourly wage. lots of benefits vs. minimal
           benefits. Same scene vs. constant change of scene. Of course,
           many other factors.
                \_ how about if i want to maximize cash income?
                   \_ Salary, with up to 20% into 401k (if you're talking
                      about maximizing over long-haul)
        \_ depends on the contracting company and how much they skim off
           (50-70% at Taos for instance) vs how many benefits they give
           (Taos is generous there by comparison to some)
           \_ 'give' is the wrong word for taos -- they 'offer' and you have
              to remember to go and take it.  Otherwise you get nothing...
           \_ I get 90K on salary or 150K on contract.  Which is better?
                \_ Salary.  They're paying health, various taxes, etc that
                you're sposed to pay both halves of on contract.
                \_ Nope.  Taxes are identical if you are W-2.
                \_ Contract is less stable.  If the company or economy is not
                   doing well, contractors are the first ones out.
                \_ Not always.  Schwab laid off 60 IS employees in '95, 0
                   contractors lost their jobs.
                   \_ that's cause the HR people at Schwab are absolute
                     MORONS. Them, and whaterver IS bigwig is linked to them.
                     (I've had a good look at the inside of Schwab. Not
                     a happy place)
                \_ Salary, there's potential to be rich with stock options
                   (if company is good).
                \_ Name one person you know personally who has hit it
                   rich with stock.
                   \_ *@inktomi.com
                   \_ Most of my co-workers made hundreds of thousand in stock
                      options from the 1995-1996 stock waves.
                        \_ Real cash or just theory money?
1998/9/1-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:14534 Activity:moderate
9/1     I am looking for a webmaster for my company. You can read the
        job description at http://www.siebel.com/recruiting/webmaster.html
        Great pay and generous option grants. Email me if you are interested.
        Thanks. - shsieh
        \_ But would you really want to work there?
        \_ Do they want to know my gpa?
          \_ will they force me to take drug tests?
        \_ YOU mean like Emmanuel Lewis?
           \_ I always did get him confused with the "Whatchu talkin'bout
              Willis" guy.
                \_ Gary Colman?
        \_ There's one at /csua/bin/webster. :-)
        \_ I have a 7th Collegiate on my shelf.  That do?
1998/8/26-27 [Industry/Startup] UID:14514 Activity:nil 50%like:14602
8/25 We need new people at my company.  Check out /csua/pub/jobs/NumericalTech
        -- daviddeb
        \_ Perhaps you could make it readable?
                \_ It's a security clearance required company.  You'll be
                   able to read it if you need to know, which you don't.
1998/6/11-13 [Industry/Startup] UID:14206 Activity:kinda low
6/11    Anyone know roughly the ratio of success vs. failure of startup
        computer companies within the past 5 years or so?
        \_ I attended a seminar which said: 60% total failure, 5-8%
           made it (IPO), 1% did exceptionally well, and the rest is
           just hanging dead (not profitable, not losing either)   -kchang
        \_ Collarary question: of those that fail completely, what's the
           average life span?
                \_ time to reach IPO is 5-7 years from the "founding day"
                   on average. Past that, it has no VC appeal.
        \- Sorry if this sounds silly: what is IPO?
           \_ Initial Punch Offering
           \_ Initial Public Offering
           \_ Wow, someone is still immune to the influence of the financial
              markets!  Quick, someone do something!
1998/6/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:14191 Activity:high
6/9  I need some information on starting salaries for new cs grads in
     Silicon Valley.  Anyone willing to post some numbers in the motd?
     Also if anyone knows a reliable source for this information please
     let me know.  Thanks.  -emin
     \_ 45K-75K for fresh out of college.
             \_ what kind of idiot's pay this much for new grads?
               \_ the kind that cant hire anymore furriners
                \_Foreigners are REALLY cheap and hard working. They're also
                  pretty smart. Get them while you can.     -Foreigner fetish
                  \_ Perhaps it's a Green Card issue. --jon
                  \_ and put up with more management bs...
     \_ Depends on what kind of work you're interested in, and what
        kinds of skills you have.  $45K-$75K is about correct if you
        have a college degree.  It can go lower if you don't have a college
        degree or if you have very little skills.
        \_ not terribly true.  With less than two years of college, I was
           already able to take about $50k with decent benies.  granted, i
           was a contracted sysadmin, but hey, it's cash.
     \_ i think a decent job with a decent company will start at around
        45K-50K.  the ones that pay more IMO sucked...i.e. you're working
        for a crappy company (like tandem), you're doing crap work (like
        writing freaking printer drivers), etc...but for pretty cool C++,
        java, CORBA type work that's cutting edge at a big company or a
        small but very promising company...you generally get around 45K-50K
        plus some stock options.  that's the route that i would take.
        \_ Person with MS (phd candidate) from Berkeley got 70K at my company.
           Person with BS from Berkeley got 60K although he's REALLY good.
           My company is big. 30,000 employees. I bet smaller companies pay
           even better.
        \_ How much can you expect your salary to rise in the first several
           years, provided you're doing a good to excellent job.
           \_ 13%, 32%, 44%, 15%.
           \_ I got a $10K raise from $55K to $65K after my first year
              because my company thought I did an incredible job.  I think
                \_ so how much are you making now d00d??3?
              this kind of thing is most likely at start-ups where they
              need really good engineers and the company is small enough
              for people with power to realize when engineers are worth the $.
                -wedge
           \_ (real value) I got an 8% raise after first year in large
              company (>10000)
              company (>60,000 employees).
           \_ 8% raise, plus another 6% "increase to match the market"
                because the company realized it was paying too little ^_^
           \_ I got a 1% raise after my first year!!!!!  And they upgraded my
              free candy from Tootsie Rolls to Hershey's Kisses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                        -foreigner
       \_ Well, someone go and bug the career center to reveal what's the median
          salary range for CS & EE and post it here please!!  It was $45K a year
          for Bachelor a year and half ago when I asked .
          \_ Funny you mentioned this. When they gave me the survey, I wrote
             down "$10,000/year PLUS A LOT OF STOCK OPTIONS!!!" I asked all of
             my friends to do the same. I wonder if they really averaged
             all the numbers :) In short, it's probably better to have an
             industry filled with people who have real passion for
             technological wonders than people who are overly money
             hungry or obsessed with making over $XYZk a year      -kchang
                \_ i'm sure it hasn't changed that much since then
             \_ They probably saw the "$10,000/year" part and filed your
                survey in the "Ethnic Studies Major" folder without bothering
                to look any further.  That's why responses like yours don't
                skew the healthy EECS numbers.
        \_ 2 years ago when i graduated, i started out at 35K (june 96).  at
           the end of the year, i also got a 7K bonus so it came out to 42K.
           in june 97, my raise after one year brought me up from 35K base
           to 50K base.  with bonus my salary ended up at around 55K (salary
           restructured to give lower bonsuses).  then 6 months later in
           jan 98, i got another raise and brought me up to 60K base +
           around a 10K bonus for this year.  i also cashed in on my
           stock options as the small company was acquired.  got around
           20K.  this month, i got another raise...our raises are every six
           months now and my new salary is 70K base + 15K/year salary +
           more options in the new larger company that acquired us (they are
           public and IPO).
1998/5/28 [Industry/Startup] UID:14149 Activity:moderate
5/26    New grads looking for jobs with a great startup checkout
        /csua/pub/jobs/OPC_Tech.  Check it out even if you are not
        a new grad, but would like to work in great company with lucrative
        stock options and all the beef jerky, chips, drinks,
        granola bars, power bars, etc. you can eat.
        \_ why oh why do all these geek companies offer all the
          (supply some junk food here) you can eat?  And why do
          geeks care about this?
          \_ Because it makes the company sound hip and k00l and non-
             corporate even if its just a lame ploy for the corporate
             people running it just to tweak geeks onto the payroll
             for less cash because "we're hip! we give beef jerky!"
          \_ Actually, the company supplies food and drinks because
             most people are at work a large part of the day and enjoy
             having free snacks on their breaks.  Obviously nobody would
             choose a company because of free snacks, but why would anyone
             complain about them? - emin
                \_ the complaint is that free snacks are put forth as some
                   sort of useful benefit, on par with stock options, above.
                   "we may or may not have a health plan, but you can get
                   free chips!"  -tom
                \_ Gimme a higher salary.  I'll buy my own.
        \_ Try Siebel Systems at http://www.siebel.com we do not supply any junk
           food besides free drinks..
                \_ Ah ha!
                \_ According to Chronicle, Siebel was the fastest growing
                   company for the past 3 yrs in the bay area. They kick
                   ass.
        \_ Intel charges everything from coffee, candy bar, all the way to
           your employee badge necklace (the blue one with Intel on it).
           ALL the food, except water, is charged to make sure that old
           engineers don't get fat and die of heart attack.
                \_ "Old" means over 35 right?
                \_ That's so the shareholders get maximum profit. So shut up
                   and get the f_ck back to your pathetic compressed cage.
                   Engineers are worthless scum, if we fed them, they wouldn't
                   work as hard.
1998/2/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:13731 Activity:high
2/23    Class action suits are the best thing in the world. When I sent in
        Iomega for a $50 rebate by sending in an original receipt, original
        UPC label, and the application, I got a mail back saying that I did
        not enclose the UPC label nor the original receipt. I was perplexed.
        Then after a year, they sent me a mail saying "Class action suit--
        a whole bunch of people didn't get what they were supposed to, and
        if you were one of them, sign here, and we'll try to resolve this case"
        Class action suits are good.
        \_ Iomega is cheap, they thought they could get away... H AH AHA
        \_ Do not sign anything without consulting your lawyers
           \_ Say what?  It's a $50 rebate on a $99 device.  How much is
              the consultation going to cost?  Don't be stupid.
        \_ May Iomega burn in hell.  Iomega management made $11 million
           in January by exercising their options and subsequently, the stock
           tanked when management finally revealed bad news.
           \_ That's against insider trading policy, isn't it?  -- yuen
                \_ Not really.  It's very difficult to prove especially
                   on something like earnings data which can be interpreted
                   in different ways (e.g. a company showing record profits
                   might see its stock fall if earnings were not as high
                   as "analysts' forecasts").  Management would get in
                   trouble though if they purchased shares of stock knowing
                   that the company was going to be taken over next week and
                   that the buyer's price/share was higher than what
                   they were paying for it.  --wft
1998/2/14 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:13673 Activity:insanely high
2/13    JUNK ABOUT NT ERASED.
           You guys just don't get the big picture, and never will. Of course
           people in the academic community know why Microsoft products are
           inferior, but try to educate and tell the truth to the rest of the
           population. They will never learn, and will never care how/why/why
           not to use Microsoft. They will forever be using Microsoft products
           because it "looks easy" and is cheap. The ultimate bottom line is,
           yes, Microsoft sucks, but they will keep leveraging, buying, sueing,
           threaten, whatever until they have everyone else using their
           products. That is the destiny, and nothing can stop it. Not Sun,
           not Netscape, not IBM. Not even the government or DOJ. Just accept
           the fact, just accept the truth, just accept the future. As Sun Tsui
           says, the war is won even before it has begun.
           \_ What's that you say?  Hopeless? -- Why, very well! --
              But a man does not fight merely to win!
              No -- no -- better to know one fights in vain! ...
              No!  I fight on!  I fight on!  I fight on!
                      -- Edmond Rostand, _Cyrano de Bergerac_
              I am trying my personal best and volunteer substantial time to
              educate others about Unix, and while I can breathe well enough
              to utter criticisms of Windows for the benefit of just one more
              student, I don't want to hear any of this about "destiny".
              We make our _own_ destiny.  -- schoen
        \_ yeah, we already know why M$ sucks, so stop your bandwidth, say
           somethin' intelligent and somethin we don't already know, and most
           importantly, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT DAMNIT
        \_ Uhm... ya.  Whatever.  Obviously, you're young and ignorant of the
           way the world works.  No one stays on top forever.  No one.
        \_ yeah, we already know why M$ sucks, so say somethin' intelligent
           and somethin we don't already know. Most importantly,
           DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT DAMNIT
        \_ Microsoft's biggest opponent is Microsoft itself. People are
           tiring of their crappy products and support. People are opposed
           to the idea of a huge corporate monolith making decisions for
           them. Eventually, that will catch up to the company. It happens
           to most large corporations. It becomes difficult to respond to
           the desires of the consumer when a company reaches a certain
           size and Microsoft, too, shall pass no matter what becomes of
           its current competitors, although it may evolve into an
           entirely different sort of company (shift focus).  --dim
                \_ No duh, they're moving to content providing business.
                   MSNBC, MSN, M Start, Web TV, publishing, newspaper,
                   propaganda, oh, just simple stuff that brain wash people.
                   \_ You mean they're failing to move to content providing.
                      Content is free.  Let 'em have it.  Can't support a
                      zillion dollar company and their stock gains on content.
                      They don't own content, nor can they possibly own all
                      the way to acquire it.  'dim' was correct when stating
                      that MS will just get too damned big.
                        \_ Sure you can create content.  Check out
                           http://www.tomorrowneverdies.com
1998/1/28 [Industry/Startup] UID:13583 Activity:high 57%like:13593
1/28    What's the best long-distance company?  Price?  Ethics (yeah right)
        What's the best ISP? Price? Speed? Ethics? Service?
        \_ i recommend Working Assets for long-distance.  price is fine,
           and they do have ethics.  they donate money to non-profits of
           your (the customers) choice.         --lila
        \_ Funny that you asked. Ever since the deregulation of telecomm
           with  voices of "freedom to choose your company", all the
           corporations start to dick everyone around by changing rates
           every month, offering cool deal then charging a buckload later,
           talk "MUD" about other companies, etc. It ends up that the real
           l00zers in this deregulation business are not the big bad AT&T,
           but the consumers who are so confused that they'll never have
           any clue on best rates.
1997/2/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:32084 Activity:nil
2/26    Anyone have any experience w/profit sharing issues in software
        development contracts? I'm looking into becoming a project manager/
        senior developer at a no-name tiny software company, and I'd prefer
        not getting screwed if the product actually makes any money. Any
        sample software contracts available online? Does anyone have a
        clue re: "reasonable" percentages of sales/profits I should be
        pushing for? Stock options are ok, but they're a *looong* way
        away from an IPO (though at least my project would have VC
        funding). Replies via email are fine; I'll summarize any
 useful info I receive. Danke.        -anirvan
        \- there are no generic answers. you need to figure out how much
        you are worth. then you figure out how to trade risk and return,
        money now/money later etc. --psb
1996/11/16 [Computer/Domains, Industry/Startup] UID:32008 Activity:nil
11/14   All these litigations over .com domain names can be easily
        circumvented by allowing only registered/trademarked names
        to qualify for .com and then either create a separate TLD,
        say, .prv, or overloading .org, for those that aren't
        qualified.  -- cmlee
        \_ FALSE.  Multiple companies can trademark the same name in
         different industries.  For instance, Anheuser-Busch
         lost a lawsuit trying to keep florists from using the
         name "Bud Lite" because the court ruled it wasn't in
         competition with the beer.  Also, what country do you
         make the authoritative trademark decision maker for the
         world?  Many .com domains are outside the US, and different
         countries have different trademark laws. For many more
         reasons this is a bad idea, see http://www.patents.com
         -alanc-
         \_ I hopped over and guess what I found in weblaw.sht?
            "Among other things, it is wise to obtain a trademark
            registration for the domain name immediately if one
            has not already done so."
            I am simply suggesting making it a requirement for
            .com TLD.  Sure companies are gonna sue each other,
            as they've done for ages.  But let them do it in the
            court of trademark law (internationally if necessary).
            Then for individuals place them in separate TLD or overload
            say .org so they don't get sued by the big boys. -- cmlee
            \_ so I've got to file for a trademark if I want a .com
        address for my web authoring business?
        \_ If you want a .com address you should be at least a
           registered company, which means most potential (not
           all) name conflicts would have been checked out
           by the time you finally receive your license.
           If you just want a .prv address then you get it
           on first-come-first-serve basis.  -- cmlee
           \_ hardly.  There are thousands of companies across
              america whose names conflict with other companies,
              but they don't care because they aren't in the
              same market.
              \_ yer just stating the obvious.  i am talking
          about on the web.  if there's any conflict
          over domain names, it'll be resolved by
          those company lawyers, who has to worry
          trademark laws.  and i'll bet a dollar most
          will settle by arbitration instead of in
          the court.
         \_ So I guess hh is in trouble now for snagging all those
            proprietary domain names to sell back to companies. :)
        -John
                   \_ it sounds like there is a fundamental misunderstanding
                      in that companies don't just trademark their
                      company names - they also trademark product names,
                      service names, combo product-service package names,
                      as well as ad slogans... so if I want to pick a
                      domain name, I have to avoid all those possible
                      trademarks, on an international level?  I don't
                      think so.  Also, trademarks run out after a number
                      of years if you don't use it. - mas
          \_  Only in US -muchandr
        \_ The sad reality is that if you DON'T get a trademark
           on your domain name, you risk losing it. Thats why
           NSI recommends trademarking it, not because you're
           required to trademark the domain name.  NSI's policy
           is to just suspend the domain and let the courts
           decide. Meanwhile the domain is basically dead. -ERic
1996/9/25 [Industry/Startup] UID:31893 Activity:nil
9/25    If you have stock options at a company (i.e., the ability to purchase
        x shares at x price), do you lose them when you quit the company?  Or
        do you still have the option to purchase whenever you want to?  How
        long *are* they valid?    --tabloyd
        \_ ONE SHARE! ONE SHARE!
        /_ haahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahh!
        \_I'm asking because my company wants me to sign something saying that
          "none of my ...stock options will have vested...therefore I will lose
          all rights to stock options."  But I've been here a year and a half,
          so I'd think any stock options (which they said we have but never
          gave us any info about) would have at least *partially* vested...  --t
          \_ youd think that.  Unfortunately you are assuming you work for
        nice fair people, and not predatory capatalists :-) :-(   They
               don't give a fuck about you, and they just dangle "stock options"
               in front of your face so that
        1) you will think you are some kind of player and not a corporate
           stooge (gee -- i have stock options, just like the corporate
           big shots I hear about on TV!) :)
        2) you will work very very very very hard for them.

        I don't mean you in particular of course -- it happens all the time.
        There was probably some fine print in something you signed along
        time ago which describes what rights (if any) you have... I wouldn't
        sign anything tho; that implies you have the upper hand :) :)
        \_ It's fairly standard practice to not let you vest until after
           some period of time.  After 5 years, all of my options will be
           vested, but after 1 year, one fifth of them will be vested;
           every month thereafter, I get so much more vested.  I
           have to wait a minimum of a year to get any of them vested.
           Once they are vested, I can exercise what I have vested (ie, buy).
           The buying price is typically some nice value below market price,
           so that you can make a happy profit minux nasty, complicated taxes.
           So, as far as I know, vested options are not valid outside of
           the company, but once you exercised them you will have real
           stock.  -cliffwd
1996/9/15 [Industry/Startup] UID:31889 Activity:nil
9/13    TUPAC RIP
        \_Good riddance.
         \_ What's this crap? 2Pac was no saint, but he was a fine
            musician who made millions of people happy. Can you claim
                   that? I think not. --elizp
            \_ A fine musician?  he was a lousy fucking pop rap singer.
        Millions of people happy?  what, was he the fuck-bunny
        when he was in the slammer?
        \_ actually he was fairly decent for a rap singer..
           most all my friends who listn to rap wud say so too.
           not quite my style (not into heavy gangsta rap) tho.
           so unless you listen to rap alot quit talkn outa yer
           ass.. -shac
          \_ fix your grammer, or FACE THE ONSLAUGHT - danh
          \_ tupac also sucked for not having a big
          fake nose in digital underground - psb
             \_ Too bad he's dead.  Now you can't talk about how
         much gangsta rap sucks ass.  "fine musician" ha ha.
              -John
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