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| 5/20 |
| 2003/5/15-16 [Industry/Startup, Recreation/Media] UID:28447 Activity:very high |
5/15 Related thread re: matrix 2. Anybody else bothered by the fact that
it takes 100+ million to make a big movie these days? In terms of
return on investment, the movies that produced the most bang for the
buck are "My big fat greek wedding" and "A room with a view".
Both returned something one the order of 600-1000% return on investment.
\_ Yes. I am also bothered.
\_ Blair Witch probably returned even more. I don't care how much
they spend making the movie, but I am bothered that the lead
usually makes a big chunk of it for doing a small part of the
work. --dim
\_ You must be some kind of Communist. The Free Market ensures
that people are paid what they worth.
\_ Uh huh. Which is why CEOs who run their companies into the
ground pay themselves millions before they are forced out.
\_ the shareholders/board lets them do so. can't blame
the ceo, he's being a good Capitalist, but the boards
are either doing the same thing (and the shareholders
are dumbfucks) or they're incompetent (ditto).
\_ without fair disclosure, without independent
audit and stock analyst, how would shareholders know?
\_ by watching their stock price drop like a rock? if
they invest in a company that doesn't provide the
independent info an investor needs they should find
another company.
\_ for some reason, the same person who wants "free market"
are the also the one who want erect tariff on Steels,
subsidy for agrecultural products, and tax benefits for
export goods.
\_ and speling, you no thers a taks on propar speling nowe
\_ I'm bothered only in the fact that ticket prices are skyrocketing
because of this. Same with baseball & other sports. I hold
nothing against the actors or ballplayers, because if I were in
their situation, I'd get every penny that I could too.
\_ don't forget concerts. Everything is becoming a rip-off.
what's up with those "convenience fees"?!?!
$20 programs at concerts. $35 t-shirts. And expensive nasty
concessions... Crazy!!!
\_ As long as we're willing to pay, they're gonna set their
prices accordingly.
\_ I almost didn't like M2 the first time, but when I saw it
a second time I turned off my brain.
\_ It just premiered last nite, and you've already seen it twice??
\_ The reels have been printed for several weeks.
If you have distribution connections...
\_ yeah you're a genius with the inside track, uh huh. I
suspect we all have the same p2p access you have. |
| 2003/5/12 [Science/GlobalWarming, Industry/Startup, Computer/SW/Security] UID:28410 Activity:very high |
5/11 http://www.workingassets.com - just a decent phone company that puts money toward good (progressive) causes (for when your email to your congressman stops making you feel good). \_ Shouldn't they be giving the service free!?? Capitalist swine - you are a sell out. \_ yermom gives it out for free and she's still swine. \_ If they are the cheapest and give (your) money away, then this is great. o/w give your own money away, and get the charitable deduction for yourself. \_ the nice thing about opting for world conscious services such as this one is that you show market preference for that type of corporation ethic. other companies will clean up their act if they see that the conscious stick gets customers. \_ wow.... I didn't know people actually believed that.... \_ Kinda like the U.N. I imagine. \_ Except the UN doesn't make a profit, isn't at all 'world conscious', doesn't provide real services, has no competition, and continues collecting money from it's 'members' no matter how well or poorly it does providing no incentive to improve, and has no effective means of controlling either it's own members or it's own staff, officers, and executives who don't ever get reviewed, demoted, fired, or replaced, and is trying to take over the entire world and reduce your national level rights to zero. Yeah, kinda like that. \_ Except for the profit thing, this sounds exactly like Microsoft! \_ You think the UN and MS are in cahoots? |
| 2003/5/11-12 [Industry/Startup] UID:28405 Activity:moderate |
5/10 Who would you rather work for? A company that generates spam (not a
legit direct marketer, but an honest to goodness spammer) or microsoft
spam company
microsoft
\_ There are a lot of legal stupidity among the spammers of late.
They've made a few major slips both legally and politically. The
FTC hearings of late have had some refreshing displays of how
some of these people behave. Work for them, and you'll 1) feel
filthy, and 2) probably get way screwed over.
\_ The legal climate seems to be turning against spammers. M$ seems
more likely to be a stable job in the long run.
\_ both involve selling your soul to the devil, but working for M$
mean decent stock options.
\_ stock options? at current market value? their stock isn't going
anywhere. the days of MS minting millionaires are long gone. go
to MS for what is probably a more stable salary. It isn't 1998. |
| 2003/4/15-16 [Industry/Startup] UID:28128 Activity:insanely high |
4/15 I'd like to recycle my empty glass bottles of Corona beer, except
they have lime slices in them? What do i do?
\- residential level recycling is basically pointless so do whatever
you want. do you think people carefully sort their newspapers vs
"other paper"? --psb
\_ I actually do.
\_ No longer true. These days China's cheap labor makes it
worthwhile. Big chunk of our waste gets shipped to China
and comes back as packaging, etc. for products. See
recent WSJ article about how an American kid's tossed old
homework goes to China and back. Symbiosis of world's
greatest waste producer and world's greatest low cost
products manufacturer - global economy at its best.
\- well while i believe there might be some sucessful
residential recycling programs, i bet the vast majority
lose money [in the us]. it's places like china and
india where *real* reclying happens ... and that is
recyling by virtue of reuse. i.e. people use newspaper
to wrap fish, they use the glass bottles things come in
\_ or to wipe ass. -motd resident russian
to store other things. you guys who feel you've done
pasta container are ... wel let's just say you should
your part for the planet by throwing stuff into the right
bin and then driving to create and barrel to buy a $23
pasta container are ... well let's just say you should
move to marin county and sit in your wildly inefficient
hottubs and say shame shame shame about all the SUV
drivers. --psb
\_ except Aluminum. The energy cost of processing
virgin Aluminum from Bauxite is so huge that it's actually
economical to recycle.
\_ Partha, do you "stink of righteousness"?
\_ Here is the wsj article if you are interested:
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/Newszine/global/5.htm
One thing to note is that prices for "corrugated
cardboard" can go from $50 to $250 per ton within a
few years, so that may determine whether it would be
economical to recycle. Also, "lose money" does not
mean no benefit. For example, I work at a medical
equipment company that is losing money. That doesn't
mean our products are not saving lives. Value is
still being added.
\_Lose money means not sustainable. Take some basic
economics. The dot-com bubble is over. And a recycling
system which loses money is bad, because the money
has to come from somewhere, i.e. industries which are
polluting.
\_ Not sustainable, yes. But losing money doesn't
mean you stop working. Similarly, there is
value in spending the effort to recycle even
if the company involved is losing money. The
cost (both for the company and for yourself) is
mostly labor. You may find better ways
to use the labor, but that doesn't mean the
effort is wasted. Put it another way, when the
company is losing money, it may mean that your
pay is too high, but it doesn't mean that your
effort does not deserve ANY pay.
\_ Uhm, dude, look, if your company is losing money,
you need to work on your resume. "Not sustainable"
means there won't be a company soon. I admire your
idealism but there's no VC going to come save
your ass and keep you in free beer.
\_ It's just an example. It's fictitious, but
thanks for your concern. My real company
has been alternately losing money and breaking
even, but it is a big fat company that doesn't
die easily, and actually just bought another
company today. I may move on soon though since
work here has become unrewarding.
\_ the medical equipment guy must still be using the
"new math" of the "new economy". Haaa haa.
than it is to pay for landfill.
\_ Of course recycling is subsidized. But in the long run,
it's cheaper to set up recycling and lose money that way
than it is to pay for new landfills. |
| 5/20 |
| 2003/3/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:27869 Activity:nil |
3/26 HAL isn't moving much. I'd think that with Cheney funneling Iraqi
oil contracts to HAL it'd get a bit boost. But no, the stock is
trading sideways.
\_ Everyone's holding their breath to see if HAL gets away with it
or if people are going to wake up and torch HAL hq.
\_ get away with what? there is no other company in
in the universe with more experience with putting out
oil well fires after a gulf war, the present and future
oil well fires need to be extinguished immediately,
even if the Pentagon had put it all out to bid, Halliburton
would have won anyway. can you think of any other company
in the world with enough experience for this, except
that tiny Texas company that was in that John Wayne movie? - danh
\_ Well, there's the Kuwaiti company that first arrived on the
scene. --dim
\- well some eastern european companies emerged after the
first gulf war, including one that moreor less strapped
a MIG engine to a tractor and used it to blow out (smaller)
oil fires. --psb
\_ Halliburton is just going to contract it out to KRB which is
going to contract it out to Boots and Coots.
\_ I don't care who they sub-contract it to as long as my man
Cheney gets the fat check.
\_ I'm against all forms of government corruption but your
mindless ranting makes you look like an ignorant kook.
Cheney doesn't get a frickin penny from any of this beyond
his paycheck for being US VP. He doesn't have a financial
interest in Halliburton or any other company now.
\_ Check your facts. Cheney still gets at least $1M
annually from HAL...and that's just what's on the
books. Your final sentence, though...wow...I mean,
there's just no hope for accountability if you really
believe that.
\_ got a url for the above?
\_ Cheney gets money from HAL, but it is just
deferred compensation from when he worked
there. They are paying his bonus out to him
over a number of years rather than all at
once. --dim
\_ don't bring facts into this. they said he's
part of some criminal conspiracy to raise
the stock price so he can line his pockets so
it must be so just because.
\_ You really believe that?
\_ Yes. Prove it wrong.
\_ Yea, he is just helping his old buddies, so they can
help him back once he no longer holds the post of VP.
\_ Maybe, maybe not. More likely not given his age and
health. |
| 2003/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup, Computer/SW] UID:27691 Activity:moderate |
3/13 My company is looking for an intern. We're a financial software
company, and we could use some extra hands to help us gather
content for part of our website. It's probably going to be
unpaid, but you could learn a lot about finance, and it might lead
to more interesting paid work after a while.
/csua/pub/jobs/wsa.txt, or email me for details. -dlwhite
\_ Do I have to bring my own cigars? This one time at band camp....
\_ Cigars will be provided. -dlwhite
\_ Sweet! I'm going for it!
\_ isn't there something illegal about this
\_ why should there be? unpaid internships are the _norm_ in
many industries, including the one most sodans are in, if you
go back 15-20 years.
\_ you mean they didn't always pay $80k for summer interns?! |
| 2003/1/29-30 [Industry/Startup] UID:27237 Activity:insanely high |
1/29 For those of you who changed jobs (voluntarily or involuntarily)
recently, what was your pay? I'm trying to get a sense of the job
market. I heard that it has picked up, but there are conflicting
info. Recently == within 2 years (after the dotbomb implosion.
same pay:
lower pay: .
HIgher pay: .
higher pay but my last job was underpaid (and I was cool with that) ..
\_ where's the "yermom" option? why hasn't someone added that??
\_ This one's mom is too ugly.
\_ 30% higher, involuntarily, but that was almost two years ago.
\_ 101k pre-bomb, 125k as bomb was exploding, 120k very post bomb.
\_ Higher pay because my last company was big on stock options, but
lower than what I could have got had I been smart enough to take
more cash.
\_ It's a bit late to give this advice to everyone, but *always*
take more cash over options. There will always be more options
from successful companies and we all know what most of the
options grants from the last 6-7 years were worth. I never let
anyone tell me any bullshit about how many options I'm getting
so they can't give as much cash. Options are frosting. You've
gotta eat the cake.
\_ I will still take the options, cause I am an optionist,
and a gambler, and this is America.
\_ I always took options. I'm not saying I was cash only.
I'm saying I treated the "chat" like it was cash only and
*then* we discussed options as an unrelated topic like
the color of my chair or which monitor I want.
\_ I know someone who took a pay cut to get extra options
and literally made millions by doing so. If you can
make such a deal and afford to do it, it is worth
considering.
\_ It's also the exception. I know hundreds of people
who got laid off. |
| 2003/1/2 [Industry/Startup] UID:26962 Activity:high |
1/2 So what can be done to try getting H1-B abusers in hot water?
I know this company comprised entirely of Indians with a large
proportion being H1-Bs who at this point are not provided with
insurance. They also agree to work for free instead of being
sent home.
\_ One of the various California labor boards would probably do it.
Also, since H1b is a Federal program, you can look up which agency
runs it and contact them anonymously on the phone.
\_ One of the various California labor boards would probably
do it. Also, since H1b is a Federal program, you can look
up which agency runs it and contact them anonymously on the
phone.
\_ Call the INS (and/or Dept. of Labor) and report what you
know. Make sure you have some sort of evidence to back up
your claim, since most of these places have fake docs for
I hope that you get the greedy bastards who run that company
stuff like insurance and pay. Also the employees are scared
shitless that they will be arrested, tortured and deported
\_ hmm, my only evidence is what an employee there has told me.
getting anything more would be hard unless i could convince
this employee to rat on them but he works there himself and
is also Indian... I didn't get the feeling he'd do it.
actually he didn't "tell" me, he told my s.o. who blabbed to me.
so you can't rely on them giving truthful statements to the
authorities.
I hope that you get the greedy bastards who run the company
thrown in jail. They deserve to spend sometime with others
of their kind.
\_ hmm, my only evidence is what an employee there has told
me. getting anything more would be hard unless i could
convince this employee to rat on them but he works there
himself and is also Indian... I didn't get the feeling
he'd do it. actually he didn't "tell" me, he told my s.o.
who blabbed to me.
\_ boy that sounds like reliable information
\_ that's the only information that would ever exist
in such cases. the h1b program is bs and needs to
be scrapped. you think they're going to publicize
their crimes?
\_ There may be emails and/or financial records
that contain sufficient evidence for the INS
or Dept. of Labor to begin an investigation.
If OP worked at the company he might be able
to gather enough information to take to the
authorities. In this case it will be hard for
him to get the information. |
| 2002/11/6-7 [Industry/Startup] UID:26430 Activity:kinda low |
11/5 Where can you find say the historical P/E and PEG of a company?
\_ I don't think you can find this info free anywhere. Numerous
companies sell this type of information... eg, http://www.factset.com
\_ Damn, quarterly reports have Earning. Historical prices can
be found at numerous web-sites (yahoo stock/business pages) |
| 2002/10/25-26 [Recreation/Travel, Industry/Startup] UID:26321 Activity:very high |
10/25 The boss instituted a 7-day vacation/sick day (combined) policy
for those who have been working for at least a year. He says
most startups don't give any vacation time at all. Is this
accurate? How about where you work?
\_ My company is still a "startup". 14 days vacation + 2 sick
days per year. Pretty standard.
\_ This is not accurate. Most startups give 2 or 3 weeks
paid time off (sick+vacation) and then aim to squeeze
seventy hours weeks out of you the rest of the time.
\_ That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
\_ Utter bullshit
\_ I'm not at a startup. I'm at a gov't research lab. But I
get 13 sick days and 13 holidays per year, not counting
national holidays such as Memorial day. --PeterM
\_ could be true. Maybe you are a really small startup?
\_ We have ~ 15 on-site employees. Around for a couple years now.
\_ It is bullshit. Your boss is abusing the fact that jobs are
scarce right now. Do you really want to work for someone who
tries to fuck hisi employees when he thinks he can get away with
it?
\_ Who would? But the sad thing is, he CAN get away with it.
Bloody damned economy. Irrational exuberance can bite me.
\_ The only reason he can get away with it is because
of apathetic, low self-image developers (and H1B's).
The market is bad, but it's not THAT bad.
\_ what safe secure hole have you been in? or do you
rewl? It *is* THAT bad
\_ well that depends. Are you a H1B? If you are, ALL YOUR BASES ARE
BELONG TO HIM. H1B have no legal grounds to sue and have no basis
for complaint. It's the best cheap hitech labor.
\_ Nonsense. Civil complaints can be filed by anyone regardless
of nationality. Some courts will charge extra large filing
fees for nonresidents, however.
\_ That doesn't mean you will win.
\_ we had FIVE weeks vacation at my last job... a start-up.
of course, this was ~2 years ago.
\_ Any URLs for vacation/sick policies (I looked on google) for
startups? If we assume he's not trying to screw people, the
boss is a Type A personality who thinks everyone should work as
hard as he does. He thinks we should all work really hard and
be proud when we succeed as a company -- instead of all acting
like a bunch of 40hr/wk overpaid ingrates.
\_ This sort of expectation is extremely unprofessional for any
except a small cadre of founding members -- and even then it's
borderline. Very few people are in industry strictly because
they like to work really hard.
\_ "Proud" as in "wow, that's swell, have a piece of cake and let's
get back to work" proud or "here's a nice big bonus and take a
few weeks off" proud? Personally as I get older, I find better,
more gratifying things to do in my life than cubicle work. What
good is it to be successful if you can't enjoy life? And Allah
help you, if have a family or get into a relationship. Your boss
is trying to make you feel guilty for making money AND maybe
trying to enjoy life at the same time. 'Sup to you to take
it or leave it. Here's the best way to look at it, if the person
of your dreams asks you to spend a long weekend in Tahoe and
you can't do it because you had the flu in January, your life
officially sucks.
\_ Generally speaking, US sucks in terms of vacation days. Europe
and even countries in Asia are much better. They get like 30
days of vacation. I only get a measly 13 days (not including
sick days though). It's because US has an anal retentive
pilgrim's calling type of twisted work ethic. However, I must
say that your case is especially bad. I think you are being
bullied and exploited. You should kick your boss. Darn! It's
almost 8 p.m. Friday, why am I still at work? Must be because
I am a H1B slave.
\_ Look, you are being exploited. You know you are being exploited.
Otherwise you wouldn't have posted to the motd. Now if you just
let this guy fuck you, you are a pathetic tool. And to sit and
whine about how the economy is os bad he can get away with it is
not a solution. First do you really want to work for someone who
is going to treat you like shit any chance he gets? I mean do you
need the money that bad? Do you have kids? House payments?
There are other jobs out there. But if you don't want to quit
you could actually talk to the guy about it. Ask the other people
at the company if they feel the vacation deal is fair. If they
don't ask them if they will back you if you make an issue out of it.
They don't have to say anything, jsut sign something, or stand
behind you when you make a case to the boss. Then go in, and
actually talk to the guy. Don't be aggressive but don't be
apologetic in any way shape or form. Let him know you and the
others are unhappy and that you want or more reasonable vacation
policy. That simple. Chances are it will work.
\_ The first half of your post is bang on. But the idea of
approaching management this way is unrealisitic at best -- this
is something that is highly dependant on the work environment
and the people involved. Odds are, unless the OP is VERY
charismatic, no one will back him when it gets real -- and
dealing with an A-personality boss like this is only likely to
get you classified as either a slacker, a troublemaker, or empty
noise. I've seen this happen before -- the 'shop-steward'
approach is almost pointless in the vast majority of work
environments. If your company has an HR person or a sympathetic
senior exec, you're better off working thru them than trying to
start a half-assed revolution that's more likely to get you
pushed out (shitty work assignments, blatant disrespect, etc).
Don't get me wrong, communication is good -- but start with
proper channels of communication before you escalate to direct
confrontation. Direct confrontation + junior level of
employment is a really bad mix. -mice
\_ I have worked at four startups: the worst had 15 days PTO
and nine holiday days a year, the best 11 holiday days, five
days sick and three weeks vacation. -ausman |
| 2002/9/23-24 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:25978 Activity:low |
9/23 Can someone explain this? GMGC filed for Chapter 7 last Wednesday, yet
its stock is still being traded and it even went up 67% today.
\_ The bankruptcy filing means that the assets are going to be
liquidated soon, instead of sitting around indefinitely. The
stock probably went up in anticipation of possible recoveries
from the asset liquidation proceeds. "67%" is a little
misleading -- it went from 3 cents to 5 cents.
\_ But the mere fact that it went up at all puzzled me.
\_ 2cents. background noise. |
| 2002/9/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Startup] UID:25865 Activity:high |
9/12 What some ex-dot commers are doing:
http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=209303
\_ What's really funny is that, bust or no, a lot of my fellow
contractor/consultant friends decide to drop out and do "hey-
I-have-a-life-to-lead" sort of things, like go learn a language
and grow wine or whatnot, even though they are thoroughly
employable, and could still be doing fairly lucrative consulting
work. Not many people I know who work for large organizations as
permanent employees take that option, usually because of some sort
of fear of the uncertain (these are generally single, young,
without kids, educated.) I wonder whether it just has something to
do with the way some people look at work (entrepreneurs vs.
employees) rather than "oh, he failed, now he's a slacker".) -John
\_ They _say_ they can be doing lots of exciting and well paid
things but _choose_ to grow wine and attend community college.
Sounds more like sour grapes to me. "I can be successful anytime
I want but I'm gunna grow grapes!"
\_ No, these are people who've turned down contract
extensions. Job situation in Europe isn't quite as bad as
it is here. Maybe just an early midlife crisis :) -John
\_ Jobs here aren't that bad, it just isn't as golden as
it used to be.
\_ That's nice to hear--most people I speak with give
me the impression that it's pretty grim, even for
high-end IT professionals. -John
\_ I like the guy who is going to Harvard Business School *after*
running his own company into the ground. Way to go! --dim
\_ Hey! He's got experience now!
\_ Yeah, so why go to Harvard? |
| 2002/8/11-12 [Industry/Startup] UID:25537 Activity:insanely high |
8/10 I can't take it, telemarketers keep calling when I get home from work
or on weekends (I can't (*@#&$( get a good Sat/Sun sleep). What's
the best way to get rid of them? Does DMA really work? How long will
it take from the time you filed with the DMA till telemarketers stop
calling? Is DMA a scam where they actually sell your # to others?
\_Can't you get one of those devices that kill the call before
you pick up? Do a web search. Have no idea if they work.
companies, no banks, no one. It's under my roommate's name so I
don't get calls that way.
\_ Probably too late for you but ... when I moved, I never gave my
phone number to any commercial organization. No credit card
companies, no banks, no one. They get my work number only (and for
who knows what reason, telemarketers don't call work numbers?
maybe it's part of their honor code.) The home phone is under my
roommate's name so I don't get calls that way. And I've never
had a telemarketer call (2 years+).
\_ telemarketers sleep when you're working so that they can call
you at an inopportune moment at home.
\_ I get telemarketer calls at work. This sort of "stealth phone
number" thing is the same as trying to hide your real email addr.
from spammers. We shouldn't have to work so hard to be left
alone.
\_ *Always* tell them "remove my name & number from your call lists"
and hang up. You'll slowly get rid of the worst of them. I had
some stupid CC company calling 4 or 5 times a day until I finally
just answered it, waited for a person to get on the other end, told
her to fuck off and remove my name, she grumped, I hung up, and
never heard from them again. They're required to do so by law and
the fines are huge.
\_ I've been doing this, and I think it has reduced my phone spam,
but certainly not eliminated it. Once when I said "I'd like to
be taken off your list," the response was "that's too bad,
isn't it. <click>" So you might want to be sure you get the
company name before you ask, if you want to follow up on
such things. -tom
\_ That's always what happens to me. I ask "who is this?" and they
always just say "I'll try back later bye" or something.
But this whole "opt-out" idea is such total bullshit. All
marketers should be required by law to have proof that you
opted-IN to be allowed to market through mail and phone.
With all other forms of ads you get something in return for
having to see the ads. This is a failure of democracy that
EVERYBODY hates spam but we can't get rid of it.
\_ Yes, this works well: "Please put us on your do not call list."
but if you really want to ensure compliance, get the name of
the company and write it down. You can sue for about $1500
( I think) if the same company calls back within a year or two.
\_ Correct, but it's only $500 and doesn't require a lawsuit.
Once you request to be put on the do-not-call list, they
have 2 weeks for your name to be circulated around their
call centers; after that they cannot call you. If you want
to be a bastard about it, you record company name, address
(to send them your complaint if they call back) and the
caller's name. If they pull that "sorry, I'll try later"
bullshit, you hang up, call the operator and get the
calling number, then file a complaint with the police for
harassing phone calls. Simply saying "take me off your
list" won't work because they get fresh lists every so often
and your name will be back on it. Sometimes the scummy ones
will fuck with you when you say "put me on your do not call
list" and say, "you want us to take you off our list?"
Those are the rats that I make stay on the line with me and
give me their full name, company name, address, and manager's
name.
\_ Ok so is there something better than just telling them to
remove me from their list? You talk about calling the
police and stuff but how about something permanent?
\_ Yes. You get the name, address, and company of every
telemarketer that calls you. Write it down. Date it.
say, "Put me on your do not call list." The
do-not-call will keep that company from calling
you. It's permanent. Do this for 2 months, and
the rate of calls will drop off. Remember-- the
do-not-call list is something you WANT to be on.
Saying "take me off your list" does nothing.
\- How about just saying "can you hold on a second?"
and just leaving the call off the hook as you go
back to whatever you were doing? What do they do
then? --psb
\_ junkbusters has a good site on this:
http://www.junkbusters.com/telemarketing.html |
| 2002/7/26-27 [Consumer/CellPhone, Industry/Startup] UID:25425 Activity:nil |
7/25 Donate your old cellphone: http://www.donateaphone.com \_ My company has a phone drive for this several months ago and \_ My company had a phone drive for this several months ago and collected more than a hundred phones. |
| 2002/7/8 [Industry/Startup] UID:25299 Activity:high |
7/7 So nobody has any experience with going from full-time employee to
contractor? I'm going to post my question on various message boards
on the net and see what I get. I'll summarize the responses here if
I get something interesting. Thanks.
\_ Did it, but not directly to the same company. Also, I'm not
very familiar with the way US jobs function, but being able to
pull that sort of thing off here really depends a lot on both whom
you know, and whether you've done a very good job when you were
permie--word gets around. The lack of perceived job security (as
if there is such a thing) and routine (not the work itself but
the trappings, like having the same desk every day) was tough
to get used to. -John
\_ I'll bet the answer is still that no one has been that foolish.
\_ From my experience in HR/recruiting, employees who go from FTE
to contracting at the company are really just arranging an 'exit
plan.' With rare exception, anyone who does this is sending a
message that they are moving away from commitment. --chris
\_ What's it mean if the company wants the change?
\_ As notice period is short in the US, it probably means
they want to cook their books a bit differently--contract
and permie salaries go on different accounts/budgets in most
companies (fixed vs. variable costs or something. -John
\_ does the op really mean doing this transistion w/in the same
company? after readint the post I thought he meant FTE at
some co. to contractor elsewhere or in general.
\_ oops, i interpreted the post as "within the same company" -- i
have a friend who's trying to do this right now, and it's
tough going on a perception level. i myself have gone from
FTE to contractor at a _different_ company -- not too hard,
it's mostly a mindset change. --chris
\_ Legally the company can not let you go from FTE to contractor with-
out a waiting period. This is for the employee's protection. Not
for the same company.
\_ What if both parties agree on it? -John
\_ No. That's the point of the law so a company can't force a
FTE into an hourly contract and fuck them over.
\_ Finally some responses! I meant going from FTE to contractor in
the SAME company. I like this company and I like my boss. I just
don't give a damn about stock options or medical insurance. I
have not been sick in four years, so any medical insurance I get
is the high deductible hospitalization kind. And it's cheap.
And I also want to take full advantage of the tax shelters with
being self employeed. Thanks for all the responses so far. This
is useful.
\_ Illegal. You need a 6 month gap between your last FTE paycheck
and your contract start date.
\_ Been there done that. Not illegal. Wanna cite a reference?
\_ It can be tough. You have to do all your own billing, insurance,
taxes, etc. You should charge at least 30% over what you make
now. You might see if you can find a consulting company that
will do all of the overhead stuff for a mimimal cut. Your
tolerance for paperwork must increase. Remember the magic
phrase "You don't get paid unless you bill hours. And then
they have to approve the billing." Beware of traps of working
unapproved (and thus unpayable) overtime, unobtainable goal
and deadline payments, and sheer overwork. |
| 2002/7/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:25293 Activity:high |
7/6 I have a full-time position at a large company. I'm thinking of
asking them to turn me into a contractor so that they can pay
me more and NOT provide any benefits. Has anyone done this or
heard of anyone who have done this? Note that I'd be an independent
contractor and not going through any agency. I'm wondering how much
more I can get by becoming an hourly contractor. I heard companies
actually save money because they don't have to pay me any medical
insurance and such. Thanks.
\_ Don't count on keeping more money - taxes will be higher and you'll
have to find insurance on your own at higher rates than the
company's group rates. Plus, whenever times are tight, contractors
are usually the first out the door.
\_ Also, not sure if this is just my company or if it's law, but
contractors can't stay more than 3 years. They have to leave
the company for 3 months before contract can be renewed.
\_ Not the law, really, but due to a finding against m$
by a bunch of long term contractors who sued claiming
they were denied stock options.
\_ I know lots of people who have done contractor->employee, but
none who went the other way. |
| 2002/7/5-6 [Industry/Startup] UID:25285 Activity:low |
7/5 I used to check out Datek's services and commissions before. For
whatever reasons, I ended up choosing TD Waterhouse; I think it was for
the local branches around the Bay Area, reasonable commission, and
security of it not going out of business soon. A friend just
reccommends Datek to me. After checking Datek's homepage, I think
$9.99 for limit market orders, $11.24 for limit option orders, plus
free real-time stock price streaming and real-time charting(?). Anyone
has any experience and/or comments regarding these two services?
\_ Kinney, is the motd a part of your network? |
| 2002/4/20-21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:24507 Activity:high |
4/19 (Soon to Be) New Grads, get any offers yet? How much? Who's hiring?
-- '99 alum
\_ Yes. Mid 70s.
\_ Startup? Big Company? Bay Area? That's more than I'm making...
\_ Startup. Bay Area.
\_ only interest from Bay Area start-ups thus far... no formal offers
yet (two pending). what should I hope for/expect?
\_ Yes. Low 20s. Grad school.
\_ What startups are hiring? Where'd you find their names? Most of
the ones I see publicly posting job ads are total bullshit.
\_ What about defense companies? I've seen positions targetting
0-2 yr experience at defense company web sites. -another99alum
\_ I've talked to people that worked at defense companies for
20+ year careers. Their jobs are very unsafe. Less so than
at some random large corp. Once a project ends the engineers
all get axed and need to find a new project. End = completed,
cancelled, on hold for extended period, etc. And they say
the pay was nothing special. Plus lots of hassles with
security stuff which makes sense given who the employer is. |
| 2002/2/27 [Industry/Startup] UID:23985 Activity:very high |
2/26 After getting a programmable Kinesis keyboard, a <DEAD>humanscale.com<DEAD> tray, installing (and getting trained) Dragon Naturally Speaking, I am finally back to work. All this, paid by my company. My advice to yall is to use your company's resource to the max -Mr. RSI No Mo \_ Like the Enron employees? \_ No. That was the opposite situation where the company used the employees to the max. How exactly in your twisted little mind did you decide this was in any way Enron related? \_ Err ... perhaps you should read about all the parties the employees had, all the luxury hotels they stayed in, the free vacations given, the first class plane tickets, the waterford crystals they get on Secretary's Day, etc. Many of them knew the company isn't making any money, yet they stayed and took advantage of all the benefits. Day, the $100 bills left on their desk, etc. Many of them knew the company isn't making any money, yet they stayed and took advantage of all the benefits. \_ yeah that really cost a lot compared to the golden parachutes. \_ You mean the EXECUTIVES who got all that shit? The typical employee got a paycheck and the shaft. And if you believed everything you read you'd also know that *every* 18 year old within 50 miles of San Jose made $35m in the 95-99 era and no one worked and everything was a big party and we all owned multi million dollar houses we bought in cash and oh yeah, hey wait, none of that shit was true, it was just resources to the max", like Mr. RSI suggested, except that, being a small fry, Mr. RSI's max is much less than theirs. the morons in the press over generalizing 1 or 2 incredibly rare stories across 500,000 people. \_ How do you define "the company" and how do you define "the employees"? That is the real question you are debating. I would argue that in the case of Enron, the people doing the coniving were the highest up exec's and thus "the company". "The employees" all lost their retirement plans and were screwed. \_ Yes, but they are simply "[using their] company's resources to the max", like what Mr. RSI suggested. \_ Say what? \_ boys and girls, the moral of the story is to abuse your company before it abuses you, except of course, if you're in top management. But usually it works the other way (Mr. fry is too nice to use his company's resource and Mr. CEO abuses Mr fry) \_ The moral of the story is that just because someone else is doing something wrong, doesn't mean you should also do it. Every criminal can use that as an excuse. When you abuse Every criminal can use that as a lame excuse. When you abuse your company, you are abusing your co-workers and investors which likely include old ladies and their retirement savings. \_ I don't think the employer paying for this person's keyboard and software is an abuse of the company. They're just taking that as part of the employee's cost. It'll come out of his next raise, current salary, next bonus, or somewhere else eventually (his severance if they go under). Nothing is free. |
| 2002/2/12 [Industry/Startup] UID:23841 Activity:nil |
2/11 There is a piece of electronic equipment I need, but the company
will only sell to another company. Does anyone have a company I
can "subcontract" (use as a front) to buy it? It isn't illegal.
- raytrace
\_ Rachel! hullo. i think a number of sodans are incorporated.
I think jwang is. ping him, or ask on wall. --scotsman
\_ i'm not incorporated. but i am disenfranchised. --jwang
\_ disenfranchised? does that mean you were convicted
of a felony? |
| 2002/2/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:23783 Activity:insanely high |
2/5 I'm a sysadmin. Made a house-call to fix CEO's wife's computer.
She already did a great job of troubleshooting so there wasnt
much for me to do. Instead I came up with a simple alternative
that worked. She was very thankful and now sent me a Fry's gift
certificate for a couple hundred dollars. Is this too much money?
What should I do? Just send a thank-you card? Or decline it and say
I was just happy to help and was just "doing my job"?
If kept, I will spend it on something my colleagues will also enjoy.
Please give any advice, motd.
\_ Thank you card. It's annoying to have your gestures of thanks
declined.
\_ thanks for helping confirm this for me.
\_ Is your CEO using company resource for personal need?
\_ she's a big part of his continued success. if he does well,
the company does well and so does my job and stock do well.
Anyways, I had to go out there to check on other things.
\_ Return the gift and ask for sex instead.
\_ Only if she's hot. Is she?
\_ She's hella hot. No sex.
\_ I'd send her a thank you card, use the money to buy something,
and not talk about it to others. You might want to mention it
\_ Seconded.
to your CEO, depending on what kind of guy he is.
\- thisisthecorrect advice. this probably isntthat much for a
ceo and family.
\_ Split the gift money into two halves. Buy yourself something nice
with one half and a gift for your CEO with the other half..
\_ That is just weird.
\_ Nice! I can see it now. "Dear PCWorld forum...."
\_ Buy her a nice sex toy as a thank you.
\_ With a Fry's gift certificate?
\_ One of those vibrating joysticks?
\_ It is *not* part of your job to do house calls. I've done house
calls because it was clear that if I didn't I'd be looking for a
new job. Unless it says so in your contract, house calls aren't
included. Think I'm being a dick? Who is liable if you get
injured? Slip on their floor? Get in an auto accident? The
insurance company won't cover you for worker's comp. You're fucked.
Take the gift, send a nice thank you to her and don't tell anyone
else about it. Don't do it again if at all possible. The 'gift'
is not a gift. It is payment for your work as a consultant. Don't
do any weird shit like splitting it and buying a gift for them or
mentioning it to the CEO or anything else. You're nice but very
naive.
\_ You bring up some good points I did not think about. I think it
is part of my job even though it's not written down anywhere
I set up their computer systems at this home. I also helped
with their home down south (flew on a jet).
\_ So they paid you extra/bonus/OT/whatevr for being their
personal compupet setting up their computers and home networks
all over the country? This isn't your job. You're being
taken advantage of. Let's compare. I'm the admin at an
online place in the Bay Area. I work less than 8 hours a day,
I don't visit homes, I don't do windows, I don't fill out
time sheets, I don't kiss anyone's ass, but I do report to
stupid people (can't have it all) and I make a lot more than
$100k. The parent company is 50+ years old, stable, private
and will never IPO but I'll have this job as long as I can
stand it. Which job would you rather have? |
| 2002/1/24 [Industry/Startup] UID:23646 Activity:nil |
1/23 Has anyone heard of a VC company called Pantheon Ventures?
Know anything about them? |
| 2002/1/22-23 [Industry/Startup] UID:23631 Activity:high |
1/22 How much does Stanfurd's "Honors Cooperative Program" for MSCS cost
per year if your employer doesn't pay for it? Thanks.
\_ each class is $900/unit. You need 45 units. Most companies pay
$5000-6000/year, which means 6 years. HCP is part time, NOT
WORTH IT. Do full time.
\_ Thanks for the info! But I can't do full-time since I need the
paycheck to feed myself and pay for the mortgage and support my
parents. -- !rich kid
\_ For NDO option, its 900/unit. If you are taking the HCP classes,
it bumps up to 1,100/unit. Not quite the Cal tuition, but its
pretty nice to be able to have a mortgage, family, etc... and go
get MS. I'm starting a job in 2 weeks, and I managed to get
an offer that included 4 years of 6,000/year stipend.
\_ the CO-OP program requires your company to sign and recommend
you to the program. I haven't seen the detail, but I thought
that implies Stanford will charge your dept of your company,
and that they may not accept payment from student. That was
the case with NDO. Besides, your company must be a "member"
company for SITN....
\_ full time work at a high tech company, and part time study
at Stanford (assuming you want grades better than B's) means
virtually no life for you. Unless you don't have that right
now. |
| 2002/1/18 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:23594 Activity:high |
1/18 PPRO: it's a $1 stock with a 52 week high of 31.34 and a low of .37.
The P/E is negative, EPS is negative. Sorry but this dog don't run.
\_ why do we care?
\_ because someone is running a script every 20 seconds to get
15 minute old data on this POS and it's your machine too.
\_ At least it still hasn't gone belly up.
\_ And this is different from every other stock because...? |
| 2002/1/8-9 [Industry/Startup] UID:23499 Activity:high |
1/8 I have a domain with networksolutions. I want to xfer it to another
company because they're quite expensive. What is the procedure? Do
I initiate the xfer from the new company or from network solutions?
Also, can somebody recommend a good company? Thanks.
\_ the other company
\_ http://dotster.com has been good to me. i switched from netsol a while back
\_ http://www.gandi.net 12 Euro/year, unambiguous dispute resolution
policy--I have two domains with them and they are really un-
complicated about transfering from another registrar. Also see
http://www.domainnamebuyersguide.com -John |
| 2001/12/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:23338 Activity:moderate 72%like:23336 |
12/21 Need a job? /csua/pub/jobs/Transmeta/ReliabilityEng
--jeffwong
\_ deal with ditzel much? got any knife wounds in your back to show
for it?
\_ I didn't see it in the posting, so sorry if I'm missing something
obvious, but... is this a start-now kind of thing, or should I
apply if I'm graduating in May?
\_ We'd rather not wait until May, but finish that degree.
--jeffwong
\_ What's transmeta's financial health look like these days? The
newspapers were all over problems with shipping, etc, etc, bad
quarterly results, etc.
\_ We have a lot of cash in the bank, at least enough to run for
another year, even if we sold nothing. (which I highly doubt
will be the case.) --jeffwong
\_ You think you are going to sell stuff (I mean other than
your office furniture)? Wow.
\_ TMTA already sells stuff (although mostly in Japan...)
\_ Not enough to save the company. They will probably
make more money from the office furniture auction
than from product sales. But what more would you
expect from http://YAOH.COMLSU (Yet Another Over Hyped
.COM Linux Start Up)?
\_ Uhm, Transmeta makes microprocessors. It has
NOTHING to do with .COM or Linux.
\_ Transmeta's cpus are primarily used on
linux systems. And they are underpowered
even for that application. The qualify
for .COM status because they were yet another
"tech" company that went public on hype
rather than on substance (sales/profitability).
\_ Wrong. They are primarily used on m$ systems.
\_ And .COM refers to companies that try to
use their website as a focal point of their
services or people trying to sell hoaky
"e-services". .COM doesn't refer to
microprocessor companies.
\_ I just looked at the profile for Transmeta on Yahoo
finance. According to it, Transmeta has $262.8M cash.
Its market cap is $243.7M. That is NOT promising.
\_ So they are obviously undervalued. Go out and buy some.
\_ The value reflects the fact that there is no
value in the company besides the cash.
\_ They have patents that are worth something.
\_ They have Linus who is worth something.
\_ hm, how much would MS pay TMTA to "get rid of"
Linus?
\_ I interviewed at the place next door a few months ago. Nice
parking lot but driving in was a bitch. Too many streets between
there and the freeway. Ugly, car packed streets. Hey, someone
else said your market cap was lower than your cash-on-hand. Can
I buy your company, liquidate and pocket the difference?
\_ chill out. jeffwong has done nothing more than listing
a job opportunity in a different job market. BTW, if you
are thinking about buying Transmeta, you only need to control
the board, which requires a little more than 50% shares. Let
us know if you do plan to buy it.
\_ yeah how mean of me to tell anyone where the place is or
hint at their financial condition. no one should be
allowed to know these things because the truth is really
really mean and hurtful. where's my shovel? i need a
hole in the sand to hide my head in because ya know if i
can't see it and don't know it, it must be ok!!! i dont
plan to buy it but i might place a bid on a few of the
pentium based computers the office staff use.
\_ and you assume any Sodans who may interview there
can't figure out themselves and not smart enough to
make a career choice? And your sacrastic tone isn't
helping anyone making a sane decision. It was how you
said it, not what you said, since anyone who can look
at the ticker TMTA can figure out their financial status.
\_ Just saving them the effort. I guess if you're
currently jobless then it doesn't matter if you get
laid off in 6-9 months because some money is better
than none until the economy turns around. Please
accept my sincere apologies going out to all laid
off sodans.
\_ I need a long term job.
\_ "Via One-ups Transmeta". See slashdot story for details. |
| 2001/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Industry/Startup] UID:23017 Activity:nil |
11/12 America's most hated man: Osama bin Laden
America's most hated woman: Carly Fiorina
\_ why is Carly a bitch? Explain...
\_ and why is she getting more flak than, say, McNealy. I mean,
her company is still in the black, unlike Scotty.
\_ Because McNealy hasn't done anything nearly as stupid as
attempting to buy out Compaq.
\_ Strong women are always hated by weak men.
\_ Here comes the feminazi crowd. No, dear one, when she
first got the job, everyone in industry applauded. Now
that she's fighting hard to destroy the same company,
everyone is coming down on her. Welcome to the real
world of meritocracy: good stuff for doing good, bad
stuff for doing bad. I think you can understand that.
Pick up a newspaper and put down the psycho babble
pseudo literature. You'll learn more from the business
section.
\_ Don't lie, you always hated her.
\_ No I had barely heard of her before she took over
but since I wasn't a shareholder I didn't care. I
_do_ recognise that her takeover plans are idiotic
and it has nothing to do with her gender.
\_ As an employee, I strongly sided with her in the
first year. She seemed to be making the right moves
and morale climbed. Now, well, it feels pretty shitty
around here.
\_ BC she's working at hard as she can to destroy the company?
\_ Second that. Compaq is the company of death. |
| 2001/10/23-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:22808 Activity:high |
10/23 Say you do business with company A, and company A sells your address
to company B. Is there anything that prohibits company B from selling
your address to company C? What I'm wondering is that: if I ask my
mortgage company to stop selling my address from now on and if they
indeed honor my request, is it really going to reduct the junk mail I
get given that it already has sold my address to someone else before?
\_ When it comes to mortgage companies selling your info, I suggest
that you give up. You're getting a low rate because the company
is small and they sell the mortgage to a bigger company. And
they also make money by selling your mortgage information. That's
how they can stay in business. If you don't like that, walk into
a citibank or wellfargo and deal with them directly. You'll get
higher rates but they won't sell your info.
\_ wrong, you'll get high rates AND they'll sell it, unless
you tell them otherwise in writing at the outset. --aa
\_ mortgage info is 'public information' and just about anybody
can get it. its not a matter of them selling it.
\_ Then why would someone be willing to pay Citibank and Wells
Fargo for that info? |
| 2001/10/21 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:22787 Activity:high |
10/19 They are laying off 5 people in my group within the next two
weeks? Don't know who yet, they won't tell us. What should I do
in preparation?
\_ How many in your group? Work on your resume. Start your job
search now. Don't wait to get axed. If you have, uh, "special
access", abuse it and read HR and Finance's email to see who is
on the black list. BTW, you're not the person from a few months
ago posting that his startup was the one going to make it but who
refused to post the url, are you? The one who thought that only
slackers get cut in layoffs and good people are always retained?
The one who thought that only bad companies with all bad people go
under or can't get VC these days?
\_ No, that was me.
\_ Hi, you!
\_ are you a homosexual?
\_ Are you Aspolito? If not, why do you care?
\_ Yeah, got my resume and will probably take vacation before
the job search(but already know what companies to go for).
I was asking more about "other" preparations. Never been
have "special access".
laid off. Anything I need to do, at work? Actually, I do
have "special access" but I'm trying to resist. 25 in group.
\_ make sure you can collect unemployment.
\_ At times like these you have to protect yourself. Knowledge
is power and all that. Under normal circumstances I would
say don't do it but you need to know. Go read their mail.
Don't get caught. And whatever you do, don't *ever* tell
*anyone* you did it. As far as "other" things you can do,
there's not much non-job-search related things to do. You
might want to look into opening a roll over account for your
401k if you have one and do the 30 seconds of research looking
into health care costs if they don't extend your health to
more than the end of the month. Basically, just get your act
together financially. Don't make any big purchases. Even
if you don't get cut this round, you might get cut 3 months
from now if you're in a public company (the next financial
quarter). And whatever happens, DON'T TRUST THE BASTARDS!
Everything you're getting told may or may not be true and
you'll only be told things that benefit the company if you
believe them. Figure out the real deal on your own. And
seriously, best of luck, the job market is really tough right
now.
\_ usual common sense stuff. archive your files. clean up your
mail spool. sanitize your files. remove your personal objects
from the office. basically make sure there's nothing left that
might embarass or incriminate you later.
\_ Careful cleaning out your physical space. You don't want them
thinking you're all set to get axed and do you instead of
someone else. Bring home anything expensive or of personal
value but leave up all the calendars, posters, doodads and
other crap you won't miss. Don't make it look like you already
got chopped. Perception is reality and all that. |
| 2001/10/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:22773 Activity:nil |
10/18 Anyone here have recommendations for a title company? (or warnings)
Anyone rate shop recently? Advice on doing so?
\_ I used Chicago Title very recently and I found them to be pretty
good. It was around $1,500 in fee. I think most title companies
charge around the same amount, depending on the value of your
transaction, of course. I seem to recall a title company that
awards airline miles but I'm not sure if they still do this.
I've also heard good things about North American Title. - jthoms |
| 2001/8/31 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:22308 Activity:moderate |
8/31 please buy some stock today.
\_ Why?
\_ because they are oversold - someone else |
| 2001/8/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Startup] UID:22207 Activity:moderate |
8/21 what's the correct agency to contact when a person/company
wont pay me for work done?
\_ The Board of Shait Cunts.
\_ California State Labor Board.
\_ How much money is it? If its enough and the company is
big enough you should threaten to sue. You can probably
work out a good settlement, perhaps for more $s than
just back pay if you get the media involved.
\_ Threaten to sue or bring the subject up with the State Labor
Board. If you take it to the Labor Board, it will take time
to get your money, but the company will be forced to show
their pay records of all employees affected by California
state taxes. This is NOT an idle threat. Be sure you ARE
right, otherwise the company can countersue for harrassment.
\_ why don't you tell us fellow sodans which person/company is it?
\_ send the Soda Brotherhood after them
\_ There is no secret cabal of daves. |
| 2001/8/16-17 [Industry/Startup] UID:22143 Activity:high |
8/16 Anyone has experience with a company called Orlando Promotions
(http://www.orlandopromo.com I got an unsolicited flyer from them via fax,
which lists a corporate discount vacation package that's very cheap.
I want to find out if I can trust the company or not. I can't find
the company in http://www.bbb.org Are there any other similar organizations
that warn the public about bad businesses?
\_ http://www.bbb.org
\_ Thanks, but I said I couldn't find it in http://www.bbb.org
\_ Oh yeah, sorry about that. Maybe they are OK. Just google
for them or something...
\_ If it is too good to be true, it almost always is.
\- there is a news group like ba.consumers you can try, as well as
the travel newsgroups. i would yuse google and google groups.--psb
\_ you moron, you are the reason we all get spam, don't respond |
| 2001/8/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:22099 Activity:kinda low |
8/13 If an employer overpays one of its employees by mistake, what option
does the employer have, legally and not so legally? --ricky
\_ For direct deposit, most employers will simply ask the bank to
deduct the extra amount or they will just nullify the transaction.
If the employee has already spend the money or doesn't have direct
deposit, most employers will simply work out an arrangement with
the employee to give out smaller paychecks until the extra amount
is "worked off". In cases where the employee leaves the company
before the amount is refunded, the employer can hold up options
transactions and/or sue in court.
\_ Can you please give believable circumstances where the employee
has rights to the money? That's what we pay you for.
\_ What if they paid out too much for the bonus of some sort and
didn't realize it for 30 days, 60 days, 6 months, etc. Isn't
there some kind of time limit for them to correct it under the
law?
\_ There is a limited amount of time for the employer to "recall"
the payment. After that period the money is yours. If you are
still working for the company and want to continue working for
them its probably in your best interest to give the money back
(or at least a significant percentage of it). If you have left
the company, they may still ask for it back provided the amount
is large enough. You don't have to give it back, but it is in
your best interest to work something out, because if they sue
you, it will probably bankrupt you to defend yourself.
\_ http://www.goodthink.com/$$tablecontents.html
Story of cashing a junk mail check with references to statutes of
limitations. -linc
\_ My god, this is hilarious. Thanks for the link! |
| 2001/7/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:21853 Activity:nil |
7/18 Hey, my company is on http://fuckedCompany.com and i can't even read about it! Somebody wanna help out a fellow geek who's company is down on their luck? I need a login with the ability to read rumors. -phuqm@onebox.com \_ Gee, that would be illegal "theft of services" or something, since you have to pay to read that stuff. \_Gee, you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. |
| 2001/7/11 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Uncategorized/Profanity, Industry/Startup] UID:21764 Activity:nil |
7/10 Found out my X-company is a "C corporation", not an LLC. does this
mean I'm up shit creek when they go bankrupt? - <DEAD>X-.com<DEAD> founder.
\_ If they go bankrupt, they can't pay you. What's wrong with that?
\_ other way around, i'm worried that incurred debt could be
charged to me.
\_ http://4inc.com/compare.htm . Shouldn't you have asked all these
questions of the attorney that helped you incorporate? --dim
\_ each column contains the word "are not normally liable
for the debts of the corporation". relax. |
| 2001/7/10 [Industry/Startup] UID:21752 Activity:moderate |
7/9 I founded a startup 1.5 yrs ago. I have prefered stock in it,
but have since gone back to school and left the enterprise with
some business vultures. They are currently teetering on the edge
of bankruptcy. Can I be liable for any of this? I have officially
left the corporation since Feb. I realize the motd isn't the
official place to air this out, but I had to start somewhere
non $500/hr. Should I get a lawyer?
\_ Hello Adjectivity founder.
\_ sounds like a gamer luzer |
| 2001/6/22 [Industry/Startup] UID:21599 Activity:very high |
6/21 Anybody in a startup right now? How is it like? layoffs and money
running out? I keep getting calls from startups and I'm wondering if
I should leave my cushy job to risk it all. Thanks.
\_ make sure they pay cash.
\_ up front.
\_ and ask for 2 forms of ID
\_ wait till market gets better?
\_ Some startups still have plenty of cushion, but do not approach
them with the same attitude one would do in 1999 (i.e. the infinite
cash supply, etc.) Other than that, I still believe startup
companies with clear business model and non-mediocre product still
shines.
\_ this is the best time to be working for startups. come on, what've
you got to lose?
\_ your stable job that you had before.
\_ Depends if they have the right product people and processes.
If they do, then it may be worth it (but that's the case even
when the economy is "good")
\_ Slightly off topic, but what recent startups have actually become
established companies (ie, you wouldn't call 'em startups anymore
and they actually are stable).
\_ In this market, no startup (new or otherwise) is stable.
\_ In a nutshell, here is what you should consider before going to
work for a startup:
1. How much cash do they have, and, given this, how long can
they survive with NO FUNDING and still pay your salary.
2. How much will they pay you? Stock is NOT a substitute for
salary. That said, due to the incredibly poor market
conditions, you should be able to get more stock because
of it's (perceived) decreased value.
3. Make it clear that, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, will you take
a pay cut, or lower your salary for more stock after you
are hired. It is the responsibility of the management
to budget for your salary for the forseeable future.
If you are hired at rate x now and the company tries to
decrease your salary to some value y < x, you are being
cheated.
4. You will not IPO in the next 12 months, the market is too
bad right now, no company with sane management would even
consider it. More likely, you will not IPO in the next
24 months. Beyond that, the outlook is hazy. Worst case
scenario, the economy will continue to suck for the
remainder of the Bush Reich. Greenspan is a miracle worker,
but improving the economy during the Bush presidency would
probably constitute vulgar magick, and result in a paradox
backlash.
4.
5. VCs are being pretty tight with money now, but they have
a tremendous amount from the boom. Don't be fooled into
thinking that the recent downturn has put a remotely
significant dent in their coffers. In their typical,
brain dead herd mentality, the in thing to invest in are
companies that are stable, profitable, and show potential
for significant long-term growth. This is in contrast to
the earlier herd philosophy of invest in any company on
this internet thing and tell them to splurge money to get
big really fast, and then figure out how the hell to turn
a profit.
When evaluating companies to work for, think how the
current VC herd mentality flavor of the month will
influence their prospects for being funded when they
need yet.
6. VCs are generally dumb. They make money because VC
investing is more or less high-stakes gambling where the
odds are incredibly in their favor. If you want to see
empirical evidence of how clueless VCs are, read up on
the debacle that is arsDigita. Keep in mind that the VC
firms that invested in aD are some of the top firms out
there. If you can join a company that can sustain itself
so it does not need VC funding, so much the better.
That said, the one thing that the incredible amount of
money and clout some VC firms carry can help with is
taking a company public. But, as point 4 mentions,
that's not happening any time soon. Also, the less
your company actually NEEDS a VC stake, the less the
VCs can devalue your stock, and munge the operations of
the company.
Anyway, hope this helped.
[ Paolo's drivel deleted. ] Get a clue.
\_ Hi fucknut. Remember, I, unlike you,have the balls to sign
my posts. Do you think I'm going to bother to give advice
about this topic? What would be the point of me arguing
with the landed gentry of the motd? - Paolo (who knows there
are only 5 people who actually really post on this forum)
\_ What do you mean by stable? Stable like IBM or stable like
HAND? --dim
\_ Riverstone and Juniper |
| 2001/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Startup] UID:21595 Activity:nil |
6/21 I've just found a version of emacs vc that supports ClearCase:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/cc-vc, but it's dated 1996. Does anyone know
of a newer version? Thx. -- yuen
\__http://www.ultranet.com/~esler/ccase-mode |
| 2001/6/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:21509 Activity:nil |
6/13 Thanks for the stock option advice. I take it the consensus
was that it was unusual for the company to be able to repurchase
all your stock at exercise price when you quit. |
| 2001/6/13 [Industry/Startup] UID:21499 Activity:nil |
6/12 As of ruling by the CA gov't, not paying salaried (exempt) workers
during a company shutdown is not allowed. For all of you discussing
forced vacations, I found the link describing the situation. It's an
open letter issued by the Division of Labor Standards Enforcment for
the state of California:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSE/SalaryTestUnderNewOrders.pdf
Quote from letter:
"..if an employer has exempt salaried employees, those employees must
generally be paid in any situation where the employee is ready, willing
and able to work and the employer does not provide work. Failure to
pay the salary of the exempt employee will result in loss of the
exemption. The employer may not, faced with this obligation to
continue the salary, resort to the employee's vested vacation pay (an
obligation which the employer already has if the employee is to remain
exempt from overtime pay)."
-phale
\_ Here's an LA Times article on the matter:
http://www.latimes.com/business/20010609/t000047972.html
\_ what if it's put to the employees like this: "Take your vacation
then or we'll lay you off. --PeterM
\_ what if it's put to the employer like this: "Don't make me take
a vacation or I'll sue you"?
\_ What if the employer in return simply say "Ok I won't. I'll
just lay you off then."
\_ you can still sue. just like "give me a bj or you're fired"
\_ Really? Isn't it that for firing the employer needs
to show that the employee has done something wrong,
whereas for layoffs an employer doesn't need to show
any fault on the employee's part?
\_ no...for example if they lay off old people just
because they're old, those people can sue, and stuff.
\_ I see.
\_ Ironically, if they immediately lay you off, they still owe
you the amount of money for your vacation days, paid in
full.
\_ This isn't ironic, they already allow for these
payouts since they are always counted under Liabilities.
Thats the whole reason to force vacations, to
decrease this liability.
\_ Yeah, but if they don't lay you off immediately, they'll
still owe you the same amount of money for your
vacation and they'll have to keep paying you salary.
Plus you'll accrue even more vacation.
\_ the way it was explained to me, it was very much in my
personal interest not to lose my exempt status.
I think it had to do with not being able to keep stock options.
Anyone more familiar with this?
\_ That's BS. Perhaps it's company policy to give stock options
only to exempt employees. But if a bunch of exempt people turned
non-exempt and still worked their typical 60-hour work weeks, the
company is absolutely fucked. Can you say "double your salary"?
\_ Besides, it isn't YOUR choice to become exempt or non-exempt. If
the company has a work shutdown, and they don't want to pay your
salary, the HAVE to make you non-exempt. It's THEIR choice.
\_ These discuss a bit about why its unlikely you'd get
options as an non-exempt employee.
http://www.bizforward.com/archives/2000-06/viewfromthehill
http://www.morganlewis.com/wp11299.htm
\_ Yes, but if an employee already has options, then this does
not really matter. So make a long story short, if a company
actually makes an exempt employee non-exempt, they are
really fucking themselves. |
| 2001/6/13 [Industry/Startup] UID:21498 Activity:very high |
6/12 Are stock option "repurchase plans" normal? I have an offer
from a pre-IPO startup, where my options expire 90 days after I
leave the company. The repurchase plan says that the company
has the right to "repurchase at exercise price" (i.e., take away)
all my stock if they haven't gone IPO by then. Is this common? i.e.,
(1) I work for three years and leave the company.
(2) I've exercised every option I got as soon as it became available.
(3) The company hasn't gone anywhere yet.
(4) The company elects to buy back all my stock at the same price
I paid, + 10% interest. (i.e., I'm even)
(5) The company hits it big six months later and I have no stock.
\_ Read it again. Normally companies have option to purchase
back unvested shares that you have exercised at the exercise
price. Anything that's vested belongs to you if you want it.
\_ "The Company shall have the right to repurchase any or all
of the Shares acquired pursuant to the exercise of this Option
following the termination of the Optionee's employment.
The Repurchase Right may be exercised by the Company at any
time during the period commencing on the date of termination
of employment and ending 90 days thereafter."
\_ This is not typical of startup companies. Make them
change it or take your skills somewhere else.
\_ Cool, so I can fire you right before the IPO, and won't
suffer any of the share dilution your options would've
caused.
\_ YANAL
\_ "YANAL"=?
\_ Thanks. Has anyone heard of this sort of deal before? |
| 2001/6/12-13 [Reference/Tax, Industry/Startup] UID:21490 Activity:moderate |
6/12 Where do employees get W-2s next January after a company closes down
this year.
\_ Possibly from the accounting firm or payroll company, but even
if not you can petition the IRS to allow you to state your own
earnings and tax contributions. They may not even audit it. I'd
save your latest payroll stubs in case they do. --dim |
| 2001/6/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:21407 Activity:high 60%like:22238 |
5/31 What's a good Bush stock to buy?
\_ Hooked on Phonics.
\_ hustler?
\_ fluor-daniel. They're building 1 outta every 3 new powerplants
in the nation.
\_ Invest in Denial.
\_ Denial is policy. - the Smoking Man
\_ Cancer Man
\_ The Cigarette Smoking Man
\_ Tracheotomy Man.
\_ Radioactive Man.
\_ Particle Man.
\_ Fallout Boy.
\_ Nucyular Man.
\_ Commie Mutant Traitor
Anti-Capitalist Man _/
Clueless Man _/
\_ Denial is a river in egypt you fool.
\_ New, improved Denial: a policy _and_ a river in Egypt. |
| 2001/5/31-6/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:21398 Activity:high |
5/31 My company has raised the lab temperature from 70 to 84. If I get a
heat stroke, can I sue the company?
\_ Damn, you are one whiny little bitch aren't you?
\_ You must be a frail little creature to get a heat stroke at that
temperature. I feel sorry for you.
\_ if you have computer's in there. raise the temp some more and blow
em up
\_ Your company is just trying to help reduce electricity usage.
\- ^help reduce electricity usage^cut pge bill
\_ actually, that's not exactly true. we have to curtail usage
or we get blackout. here, they just conducted a drill where
they reduced company wide energy usage by 30% within 5 min.
\- you have to cut use because your company agreed to do
so to get cheaper rates. the marginal extra load doesnt
contribute significantly to blackout probability ... unless
perhaps you are intel or an aluminum company. ok tnx |
| 2001/5/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:21374 Activity:low |
5/30 Wanna go to JavaOne? A small company needs people to man their booth.
/csua/pub/jobs/Jinfonet
\_ should've said: "Wanna be a monkey at JavaOne?"
\_ Yeah... well... you get to go. And you get enough cash to cover
a few movies... and you get some free food and drinks... and you
get to meet the booth babes. What are you looking for? A
technically stimulating job at a trade show? |
| 2001/5/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21236 Activity:high |
5/10 I've been having a hell of a time finding any summer jobs.
Is anyone here hiring programmers for the summer?
\_ Unfortunately not. I've been trying to push our company
to hire a few interns this summer and its almost impossible.
No one wants to spend money on *anything* including interns.
\_ No.
\_ shit is tough right now, I've been looking as well...
\_ Think, "dotcoms bomb, programmers everywhere". Kid there are so
many unemployed and underemployed coders out there with years more
real world experience than you that you should forget about any
sort of technical job this summer and just find a nice beach. In
fact there are plenty of very talented and highly skilled people
out of work right now willing to take almost anything.
You just can't admit to yourselves that you are not that bright.
\_ Stupid dotcom programmers everywhere. I don't know a single
intelligent programmer who is having a hard time finding work.
The last time smart people had problems with work was 1930s.
\_ I think it has less to do with how smart the person is and
more to do with how "on the money" the company itself is.
if the company is a loser, it doesn't matter how "useful"
you could be because you're expending your smarts on stuff
that really doesn't matter to the people paying the bills,
which is ultimately the customers. Of course, it's harder
to get a job at a good company because you're competing
against the other smart people. And obviously, this is
because smart people look at the business plan and don't
go work for a loser. Ergo, dotcommers are NOT smart. QED.
I guess I just contradicted myself. Whatever.
\_ Yes, it's easy to use 20/20 to say what was good and what
was bad. If I was employee #1 at Netscape or Yahoo or
others I'd be a genius, right? No. There's a lot of
luck involved. Research and business plan examining only
goes so far. If it was that easy, then every business
plan would be a success as no one would ever have a bad
plan. You're not making sense.
\_ Well, Netscape had a crappy business plan; they were
a stock only company. I for one never saw anything
to it, it was clear early on that the value of the
browser was only strategic; since Netscape didn't
have anything to leverage the browser with it was
pointless. Yahoo is a decent company because they
actually have a business model and are useful.
But it's a web site; they don't need armies of
developers. Most of the failed dotcoms were hyped
bullshit and many people said as much at the time.
\_ Netscape was selling the server, not the browser.
You *could* buy the browser but that wasn't their
point. Yahoo is just a web site? You've never
actually looked at all the different shit Yahoo
offers, then. Go look around their site at all
the services (whether you find them personally
useful or not) and tell me that doesn't take a
lot of coders to write and maintain?
\_ it was the browser that had the value. since
they didn't take advantage of it when they had
the chance, i attribute it to poor management.
those "servers" obviously weren't demanded by
the market. the browser was; but it doesn't
make money on its own. i guess it's true that
microsoft killed them, but then who didn't see
that coming once IE 1.0 came out. as for yahoo,
it's a portal, they are a good one with a large
customer base, but that business model just
doesn't support a big overhead. how many is
"a lot" of coders to you? most of it looks like
monkey work.
\_ How many is "an army of developers" to you?
This is all beside the point. The front office
girl at NS retired a multi millionaire. Was
she a genius or she just get lucky? The point
being that you can't *know* for certain if a
small company will make it until it's all
hindsight and the post-analysis geniuses crawl
out from under their rocks and claim they knew
it all along.
\_ Yes, you rule the universe.
\_ No, but we are smarter than you.
\_ No, I'm certain you rule the universe. Afterall,
it's a fact that anyone who ever worked for a
company that did layoffs or went out of business is
a no-talent moron, right?
\_ You are making a clumsy strawman, no wonder you
can't find work. No, smart people get laid off
too, but unlike mediocrities like you, they can
easily find another job.
\_ I didn't make the strawman. Just rewording
the one that was already there. And because
I know you're concerned, I'm gainfully
employed. Thanks for showing concern. Are
you one of the academic employees here who
mistakenly believes that skilled people
always easily get a new job and lesser
talents don't? The world isn't like that.
\_ No I am not, I am merely a programmer
who was not laid off (because I was
actually useful to my company).
\_ Silly boy. A lot of programmers who
are useful to their companies got the
axe. No one is immune. You honestly
\_ I am immune.
\_ Only if you
work for a
company of
one and maybe
not even then.
--------------/
My company is an obvious
counterexample (60). The basic
point you seem unable to
comprehend is, despite what
managers tell you, in times of
belt tightening the fat, not
the muscle, gets eliminated.
If you were eliminated you
were not useful. If you are
still working, you are useful.
End of story. Stop
hypothesising (incorrectly)
about the possible state of
my company, or else continue
sounding the fool.
\_ 60 people? You work for a
tiny blip of a company and
think your company is immune
to the economy and the
marketplace? I've seen
perfectly good people get
axed at several companies.
You're fooling yourself if
you think your tiny little
speck of a company is some
magical wonderland immune
to a bad economy, management
mistakes, overhiring,
changes in the market which
make your product/service
obsolete or unnecessary or
any of a million other
causes of company downturn
and layoffs. Is this your
first job? You sound a lot
like my friends who thought
their first job was magic,
too.
\_ My first job sucked.
\_ If times get too tight
even you will go.
\_ Sure, along with the
whole company. This
will happen if we have
another 1930s style
recession, then it will
suck for everyone, even
smart people. Right now,
however, only idiots are
let go.
\_ That's all I ment
by the statement
that no one is
immune.
\_ 1930s was a depression.
\_ What's the name of
this special place you
work for (currently)?
I'd like to judge for
myself how long you'll
have a job.
\_ I ll know in a year
if the company
succeeds.
\_ *laugh* Not if
you get laid off
first!
\_ No way!
think the people doing the cutting
even know who the hell you are or that
you exist as anything more than an
employee number, a title, and a number
on their salary spreadsheet? You'll
figure it out one day. No one
important at your company knows who
the hell you are or gives a damn.
\_ Everyone important knows who I am.
It's not a large company, of
course. Stop hypothesising
(incorrectly) about the possible
state of my company, or else
continue sounding the fool.
\_ URL, please?
\_ Not quite. The large number of idiots currently in the job
market make it harder for employers to spot the worthwhile
job applicants. Also, many companies are currently under
hiring freezes, which make it more difficult for them to
hire worthwhile people when they *do* identify them.
\_ Kid, I hear the mall is hiring. Try Mrs. Field, they're always
hiring.
\_ And think of all the free cookies you and your friends can
get. Since your friends won't have jobs either, they'll
really appreciate the free cookies.
\_ In Portland all my friends had retail food jobs. Rent was
very low (less than $300) and we never had to buy food
due to our network. Our rent may not be low here, but
remember it pays to make lots of friends and always give
out free things if you can afford it. It will help you
through tougher times. -brain
\_ It's a good summer to do research and take summer school...
\_ I'm hungry. Go make me some fries.
\_ I'm not just making a burger. I'm making your burger.
\_ go work in las vegas.
\_ Those fishing boats up in AK might hire.
\_ Slave labor is always available in good times and bad, yes. |
| 2001/4/16 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:21001 Activity:nil |
4/16 Games dot com is a luz3r company. Those who joined and stayed till
now, are the stupidest of all. <DEAD>-fuckedcompany.com<DEAD>
\_ That's pretty danged stupid! -redneck |
| 2001/4/15 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:20982 Activity:moderate |
4/13 So if I tossed about $1500 bucks as a pure gamble into a $1.5 stock
in October and today it's about 12 cents and they announced on Friday
that the CEO is resigning and this is just before they release their
earning report does Motd Wisdom consider this a buying opportunity
when it drops to 3 cents on Monday? -loves runons
\_ No.
\_ Whether it's a buying opportunity depends on the prospects of
the company. Inexpensive is not the same as cheap. -tom
\_ Sounds like a buying opportunity to me! Buy more shares, lose
more $! -oj
\_ % more $!
Missing filename ("less --help" for help)
\_ Read http://www.fuckedcompany.com/archives/search.cfm?search=webvan
before buying more of WBVN. They are up to their head in debt,
and will go bankrupt making your stock completely worthless.
\_ 12 cents? How many shares do you have to buy to equal the
commission you'd have to pay?
\_ there are special rules in the tax code regarding worthless
stocks. This is a good chance for helping your taxes!
\_ A carton of milk purchased from WebVan or 100 shares of WebVan:
which will be worth more money in 2 weeks? |
| 2001/3/17-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:20825 Activity:insanely high |
3/16 http://Adjectivity.com is hiring java programmers full time paying with stock and stock options. email zen@adjectivity.com \_ stock AND options?! why not sal and ary? \_ How are my shares in Confederate Slave Holdings? \_ salary is 2500/mo but with stock options which are potentially worth millions! \_ Only in the wallpaper business. \_ after tax i hope and bimonthly \_ 2500/mo? I hope you mean Pounds and not $s. \_ jesus, I think grad students make more. \_ You think wrong, working on campus that is \_ one can only hope that they get bought out. isnt their cto leaving? \_ yeah. but [ajani,njh]@csua are staying. They like it! \_ are they going to play best 3 out of 5 UT deathmatch to see who's going to be CTO next? \_ CounterStrike not UT \_ this means new hires have better chance at moving up the ladder and taking leadership roles! \_ YASWUUE (Yet Another Startup With Underqualified Undergrad Executives). Woo Hoo! \_ Then why not start up your own company: then you can be President, CEO, Chairman, COO, CFO, CTO, and CIO That's really moving up the ladder. Good for the resume. \_ We already discussed this on the motd last year. Big title at small company means nothing. MTS at Sun or Staff Eng at Cisco is much better for your resume than VP of Eng at a small startup with no technology. \_ No shit. Are you being sarcastic? I think we were. \_ Its getting harder and harder to tell who is being sarcastic and who is actually an idiot. I've taken to treating every comment literally. \_ Not necessarily. It depends. --jsl \_ This was not jsl. Do not put jsl's name on my comments no matter how minor a comment. -- !jsl \_ just to clarify, that was $2500/month cash + stock options (additional) \_ Cold hard cash, with real $ bills, or via check? As a show of faith you should pay with real $s, since no one can really be sure your checks won't bounce. \_ Even UCB custodial staff make more than that per month. And they get a guaranteed pension and job security. \_ Hey, cool, where do I sign up? I can't wait to take a $100k/yr pay cut. \_ That wouldn't even cover my current federal withholding, and I claim 3 allowances. \_ Yeah but think of the 500 options you'll get that in 4 years will be good to wipe your ass with... once. |
| 2001/3/14-15 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:20786 Activity:high |
3/14 Who knows anything about Aiken's new startup? Email me. thx. -sameer
\_ Mail Aiken?
\_ I'm looking for the inside story dumbass.
\_ Duh. And who better than Aiken to give it to you?
\_ Some dumbass deleted my post. Are you asking about Digital
Integrity or a different startup?
\_ is this similar to MOSS?
\_ If this is referring to Digital Integrity, then yes.
\_ Widom is hot. |
| 2001/2/7-9 [Industry/Startup] UID:20533 Activity:low |
2/7 Volunteers wanted! gotCOM is a family computer program providing
equipment, training and mentoring in disadvantaged West Oakland
neighborhoods. We need mentors to be paired, one to one, with the
families to provide a personal, supportive connection while the family
is making an initial adjustment to being computer users. The mentoring
commitment begins in late February and continues until mid-October.
After attendance at initial training sessions in March and April, the
mentoring consists mainly of telephone and e-mail contact. Please see
<DEAD>www.gotcom.org<DEAD> or contact preston@mofo.com for details. --max
\_ cool company. how many stock options, and when is it going IPO?
\_ He said volunteers. no options you troll.
\_ 10k options for each family adopted. IPO sometime in the
next 12-15 months you ignorant wanna-be troll. |
| 2001/1/22 [Recreation/Computer, Industry/Startup] UID:20402 Activity:high |
1/22 berkeley needs a page like this:
http://ic.www.media.mit.edu/people/gilberte/Startups.html
\_ There's already a place like this. It's called
http://www.fuckedcompany.com
\_ take a closer look. i'd be ashamed to work for most of these
companies. |
| 2000/12/21 [Industry/Startup] UID:20146 Activity:high |
12/20 Is the safeway strike over?
\_ There never was a strike against Safeway.
\_ Umm, the teamsters strike??
\_ If you're talking about the strike against Summit
Logistics, yes that's over.
\_ Yes. The company that has only one customer:
Safeway. It was a Safeway strike no matter how
you want to redefine it. It's just a shell company
run by Safeway. I'm anti-union but I'm not blind,
run by Safeway. I'm anti-onion but I'm not blind,
or stupid and I don't delete other people's posts
because they say things I don't like to read. |
| 2000/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Industry/Startup] UID:20082 Activity:moderate |
12/12 This may sound wierd but is there a way for a program compiled
with the -g debugging option to examine its own stack frame?
I once ran a program that, whenever it crashed, did an automatic
backtrace on itself and dumped it to stderr.
\_ ~mconst/src/gdbcall will let your program run gdb commands
(like "backtrace") on itself. --mconst
\_ another toy, that helped destroy, the elder race of man.
\_ You can do this in assembly, catch an exception and simply
check your stack register and walk all the way up
\_ How about catching SIGBUS, dumping core and then running gdb
backtrace on the resulting core file. |
| 2000/12/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:19976 Activity:insanely high |
12/01 Salary poll (not counting contractors)
\_ How many times have we had this poll?
\_ How many times have we had yermom?
\_ Poll: Too many times
Never .
We need to have another poll like this
< $60000
$60k - $70k
$70k - $80k .
$80k - $90k ...
$90k - $100k .
> $100k .
;-)
3.4M fresh out of college 98, IPOed 2 years ago.
\_ are you for real?
\_ paper money?
\_ Well, if he got out in 98, he probably has vested
and cashed out half of his options already. lucky bastard.
\_ Let's see. He got in 98 as entry level. NOt likely
he got too many options especially at IPO time. Unless
the price is very very high (~$400-$800).
\_ how many options did you get? i only got 8000 , 2k for first
year... |
| 2000/11/28-29 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:19935 Activity:insanely high |
11/28 Is it better career-wise to have an inflated title (Senior Architect)
at a company full of unqualified idiots or a regular title (Java
Engineer) at a company that knows what it's doing?
\_ My mom was called a Analyst by the Gov. for 13 years. She
wrote the AI's that help fighter planes takeoff and land
from carriers and that make sure the shuttle's booster tanks
are functioning correctly.
In the long run, if you know your stuff, it doesn't matter
that you are called a Analyst or a NOCMonkey.
\_ "Java Engineer". I've got to add that to my list of oxymorons.
\_ I dunno. Would you be more impressed by a Member of Technical
Staff from Bell Labs or a Senior VP from http://dogfood.com? Different
people will answer that question differently. Which one do
you want to be?
\_ how about "programmer" at Bell Labs? You know that's
Kernigan and Pikes designation.
\_ how does Member of Technical Staff compare with Senior
Software Engineer?
\_ "manager". "director". And prefix with "senior" to make
it a total of 4 more.
\_ Well at sun MTS is lower than SSE, so I'd rather be
SSE. - MTS at sun
\_ Senior Architect isn't a very high ranking title.
\_ What tech titles are above that besides VP Eng and CTO?
\_ Depends on the size of the company. I was offered a job
as a chief architect in a startup and I would have reported
directly to the CEO had I accepted their offer.
[moved. -motd continuity god]
\_ "manager". "director". And prefix with "senior" to make
it a total of 4 more.
\_ Plus "lead". Though it depends on whether you want
to and are good at managing people. If you want to
build things, stay away from management. If your
skills are getting rusty or you are ambitious, go
for the manager title. There are also the extremely
rare posistions like Sun Fellow, which allow you
to do whatever you want.
\_ Cisco had Distinguished Engineers and Fellows,
which bascially ment you did what you wanted.
One fellow was also PostMaster for a time. I
think that Tony Li was a fellow also. Now being
known as Mr. BGP, that's a good title. I'd like
to be known as Mr. <Major Internet Protocol Here>.
\_ Mr. ICMP Echo Request. Mr Ping to his friends.
\_ career-wise: inflated title, no question.
This is based on assuptions derived from the fact that you
are asking this question in the first place.
Impress people who actually matter: the second one.
\_ whatever pays more and as long as you feel justified in what
you are doing to earn that title, then be happy, if you feel your
title is too low to reflect your importance, then leave or ask for
higher position. (or more money to compensate - but money never really
does)
\_ are you inSANE???? tell me that $200K a year wouldnt compensate
for having "NOCmonkey" on your business card.
"never" should almost never be used.
\_ there can still be emptiness felt, even the richest people feel
empty at what they are doing..
\_ Yeah, but in 5 years, they can AFFORD to do something
"meaningful, yet penniless"
\_ I don't. -Rich&Full
\_ maybe for now, but in a few years.. you'll want something
more... everything we do is chewing bubblegum.. the flavor
runs out.. hopefully not before we die.
\_ Maybe you're sitting on your ass, patting your head,
rubbing your stomach, chewing gum, and watching the
market tank. I'm enjoying life. -R&F
\_ which for you apparently involves getting in silly
discussions on the motd. wow.
\_ Gosh, I guess. And for you involves getting in
silly discussions on the motd from _work_? I do
what I want, went I want, how I want, report to
nobody and answer for nothing. Your pointed
comments are damaging to my poor self esteem.
Please stop before I hurt myself or something. |
| 2000/11/28-29 [Industry/Startup] UID:19926 Activity:kinda low |
11/27 A long while ago someone posted a link to a page that had good
questions to ask a perspective employer about the options being
offered (what they represent as a % fo the company, etc.)
I'm hoping someone remembers what i'm talking about and will post
the URL again (or a similar page) thanks.
\_ http://buffy.eecs.berkeley.edu/Advising/CS/Peer/resources/joiningastartup.html |
| 2000/11/27 [Industry/Startup] UID:19924 Activity:very high |
11/27 1. Dial 1-800-888-3999 (it's free)
2. Listen to all of the options
3. After hearing the 7th option - hit 7
\_ Good God, man! Have you been in a coma for 3 weeks?! Just woke
up today and read slashdot? We ALL know, and it's not that funny
\_ Quack quack quack
\_ Some of us have accounts with this brokerage and its not funny.
\_ URL at slashdot please? |
| 2000/11/17-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19812 Activity:low |
11/17 What are the implications (URL would be great) of being an officer
of a company? I'm VP Eng of a new startup, and I'm wondering how/why
I should push to be an officer.
\_ I don't know if you have vc funding yet, but _unless_ you are really
really really hip and profitable, VCs replace all the "O"s in a
startup after they give you money and move in their own O's.
Be warned. - paolo
\_ You get a big golden handshake when you go under because they're
making clueless people VP's. What's the company name? I want to
know where not to send my resume.
\_ I think officers usually have seats on the board of directors
\_ No, not really.
\_ What does "officer" mean at your company? Someone who is an
officer at a bank, say, is not usually on the BoD. It's just
a title that involves more stock options and signing authority.
\_ Nick Kral, Gamers is a luz3r company. It doesn't matter what your
title there is. Accept the fact and MOVE ON. You'll glad you did.
You'd hope someone who claims to be a VP wouldn't post on
the MOTD about this stuff. I guess startups are getting
desperate.
\_ My stock, as a founder, is already defined... Also, I'm not
going to be on the board. The debate is whether or not I should
be an officer. Why would I care? All the CEO said is that
officers have "signing authority" but what does that mean?
\_ Looks like your motivation is based on money. If the board of
director likes you, he'll ask you to be on board. Otherwise,
forget it. Very few honest men stand a chance of climbing to
BoD. If you want to make it there, you need to learn how to be
scumbag like the BoDs. |
| 2000/11/11 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Startup] UID:19730 Activity:nil |
11/10 wtf is http://venturehighway.com? Anyone heard of these guys for info that's isn't on their website. |
| 2000/11/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:19690 Activity:kinda low |
11/9 Suppose I form a company and somehow convince one or several VCs
to give me money. Like say $5 million. They will write the check
in the name of my company. But I then turnaround and give myself,
as CEO of the company, a $5 million dollar bonus. And then declare
the company bankrupt. Is this possible? I know it's unethical, but
what's to prevent me from grabbing the money for myself after I get
it. Is this legal?
\_ You'll be signing a contract 2 inches thick. Figure it out.
\_ Yes, it is, but you will have the shareholder majority vote behind
you to defend it, which is highly unlikely after VCs are through
with you. You can also count on getting sued. -muchandr |
| 2000/10/31-11/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:19616 Activity:very high |
10/30 What's up with deleting the anti-Epicentric comments? Were they too
accurate and painful? Don't hide your head and your career in the
sand.
\_ No, they were neither accurate nor painful. Besides, you're
the anonymous one, so who's hiding whose head and career? I
encourage you and anyone else to check out the website and
the job posting to check out the facts. Thanks. --peterl
\_ say hi to luis for me, if he's still there. i emailed
you about that, but you didn't reply, peterl. --chris
\_ Yeah, I made it all up. And not wanting to get sued by anyone
is certainly less important than 'proving' anything by signing
by name. Let us all know when they don't IPO again and finally
go under. Oh btw, *very* basic questions: how many rounds of
funding do they have, how much was the last round and how much
is left? If you don't know that stuff, you know nothing and
no matter what you think of my anonymity, your naive would
certainly be proven. And as far as my career goes, I was
already earning $25k more than their 'offer' with 3x the stock
as a percentage of company. Currently $50k more than their
offer with similar options ratio. I know of others doing better
but I've got nothing to be ashamed of. Might have something to
do with all those *questions* I ask which you won't.
\_ So, what part of "go to our website" don't you understand?
You can find out about our funding, our support, etc, etc.
It's simply much faster for me to point out the source
of the information rather than answer individual questions,
but if you must know I've worked there for 14 months, so
I do *actually* know what's going on. Speaking of getting
sued, I don't think you have to worry about breaking your
NDA because nothing you said is proprietary, or correct,
frankly. Well, I guess the only thing you'd have to
worry about is slander ;) I'd *love* to discuss detailed
financial information with you, but that would be a
breach of *my* NDA. However, anyone who wants to know
the truth should come to our website, and sign-up for
an interview so you can talk to us. --peterl
\_ So you mean the VP *lied* to me in the interview about
their future IPO plans? Ok, that makes me feel really
great about working there. Glad they didn't make an
offer worth considering. Greed might have overcome my
better sense. And not being there in the interview with
your VP of Engineering, you have no clue about whether
or not what I said happened in the interview is true or
not. Head in sand, boy. Head in sand.
\_ The truth: 75 customers, 180 employees. I hope you're
getting at least $150k from each customer (and that's
only going to get you to breakeven!) $35million in
funding will only last you another year. But then
again that's the average length of Silicon Valley jobs
these days.
\_ let someone see and decide for themself. Every
job is a calculated risk that one takes. Thanks
for the input, maybe Epicentric is a risk, but
to each his own. --chris (who doesn't work at
Epicentric for her own reasons but has nothing
against them)
\_ Yeah, let's not warn anyone or god forbid encourage
the stupid geeks to ask the right questions. Let's
just all shutup and get chris another hiring bonus.
Let's all just sign up and find out for ourselves
the hard way. Way to go chris! Teach those young
geeks the best way to improve their futures!
Walking blind and stupid into a company you know
nothing about isn't a calculated risk. You don't
have the information to calculate anything. That's
not a risk. It's just plain old stupid.
\_ websites are just spin anyway.
\_ Yep. Bingo.
\_ Most are, but luckily many of those are dying.
Everything's spin anyway -- politics, news, dreidels,
and so on -- and working for a fuckedcompany doesn't
even matter if you enjoy yourself and get paid.
work != life. It's a very important aspect of life,
but I repeat IT IS NOT YOUR LIFE. Geez, these kids
nowadays....
\_ The point of working for a startup isn't to get paid.
It is about the _chance_ to possibly get a lot of wealth
in a very short period of time. If you just want a job
that'll always pay, try McDonald's. They're doing quite
well. |
| 2000/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:19604 Activity:high 53%like:18800 53%like:19149 50%like:19187 54%like:19369 50%like:19457 |
10/30 Get a Job! /csua/pub/jobs/Epicentric
\_ I interviewed there about a year ago. Pre-IPO? No kidding? They
had planned to IPO this last summer or spring. Salaries? I was
already getting _50%_ _more_ at my current company! They were
not willing to negotiate in any serious way. They had no clue why
they chose the OS's they were using (as a sysadmin this matters to
me) and had this OO Java religion to such an extreme degree they
wanted me to learn java and do all my sysadmin coding in Java,
not Perl or some shell. Ridiculous. And oh yeah, check out the
business model.... Kids, do *not* join companies like this. If
you're already there do yourself a favor and look around. _Ask
*lots* of questions_!!! Epicentric: lame company.
\_ Yeah, they're java nazis. Their entire product is jsp-based. |
| 2000/10/21-23 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:19536 Activity:high |
10/21 Is it harder finding a significant other when you start working
in the real world full time?
\_ uh...YEAH. think about it...if you're working 8 hours a day or
more, and you don't go drinking, don't do church, and if
you don't have lots of friends to hook you up, it gets
REALLY hard. try to get hooked up before you leave college.
dating at work can be awkward b/c if things go badly, you
have to see that person on a daily basis still or still
work with them, that's messy. or your workplace might
be a virtual purgatory with no women your age, only
older 50-60 year old women nearing menopause and retirement.
you don't necessarily have to get desperate and marry the
person next to you before you leave college. Your friends
are your best connection at this stage other than your outside
hobbies, if they are anti-social and have no leads, then
you are pretty much sort of fucked. like lots of other people,
I think it's rather typical nowadays.
-- angry alum
\_ Get one of the older people at work to hook you up with
thier daughter. Easiest way to get to the top is to marry
into it. Beware that you will have to treat this person
nice otherwise things can get very hard at work.
The other alternative is to have your parents find you
a wife. Arranged marriages are cost effective and long
lasting. None of that dating non-sense. The downside is
that the proven system for arranged marriages is pretty
much indian only, so unless you are indian SOL.
\_ How could it possibly be any harder?
\_ meeting fewer eligible people?
\_Less TIME. actually having to work 8 hours a day,
and commute 1-2 hours total
\_ More free time, not having to be in class 4 hours a day,
working 4 hours a day, and studying/working on projects
10 hours a day. (Or were you an English major?)
\_ WTH do you do for a living? I'm working ~ 60-80
hrs a week, I've got less free time now than when
I was at Cal going to class, labs, doing hw/projects
and so on. However, I'm looking forward to the
day (shortly now thanks to my options) when I can re
tire and become a full time skirt chaser.
\_ Programmer at a company who IPO'ed when
you were learning to program in BASIC in
grade school, so there are no "do or die"
deadlines, and the options have a much
higher chance of being worth more than the
toilet paper that the average startup
stock options end up as.
\_ well, my options are in two decently
large companies, so I'll be joining
the millionare club soon. The reason
I work so much is cause the old shits
in my company don't do anything except
count their money and someone has to
finish the coding.
\_ How much money do you need? I work ~40 hours
per week and my options will be worth $2M in
another year+
\_ I'm out at 5M.
\_ in class or out, you are still surrounded by
peole close to your own age, who are or will be
college educated. Its different in the "real world"
\_ lots more people talk about kids. You starting looking
at women's hands for rings.
\_ the pool of eligible potentials dwindles drastically
once you leave school.
\_ Return to school, become a hs teacher. Just make
sure to keep your hands off the ones you know are
underage.
\_ how successsful could this possibly be? it's
barely viable and definitely not tolerated
in the United States.
\_ It worked for Na-chan (If you understand
this, I'm apologizing in advance)
\_ might not have been very serious about
the last response. |
| 2000/10/8-9 [Recreation/Travel, Industry/Startup] UID:19439 Activity:high |
10/8 What's the deal with http://Priceline.com? Rumor has it that it is going out of business. \_ they're Elvis. (dead). \_ http://www.fuckedcompany.com had something on them, I believe -John \_ http://www.fuckedcompany.com had something on them, I believe -John \_ PriceLine WebHouse, their subsidiary that sold groceries & gas ran out of cash and closed their doors last week, but the main company is still around (for now). \_ Also, a couple of states attorneys general are investigating Priceline based on consumer complaints. Finally, how does one work with a business model where one ends up with almost NO repeat customers? |
| 2000/9/19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19296 Activity:nil |
9/19 My company was just acquired by Sun. What's Sun like? Good/Bad?
\_ Probably a lot better than Cobalt. At least they have products.
\_ What happens when a company buys out another? Does the old
company simply cease to exist? Do they generally relocate?
Do both upper mgmt teams merge? |
| 2000/9/18-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:19273 Activity:moderate |
9/18 On employment contracts I've seen recently, there is a section
where it asks me to "list any prior inventions," etc. If I was
to just name and briefly describe all the little things I've
created or been working on for the last few years that I don't
want to assign to the company, it would take pages. I really
don't want to assign the company ownership of all those things,
I'd prefer not to even have to list them since many are viable
business seeds. How do you guys deal with this kind of stuff?
\_ everyone i know who has had to to deal with an ip law issue and
not used an ip lawyer as their primary recourse has severely
regretted it. the motd is a worse source than most, but your
buddy in engineering with 12 patents might be just as bad. talk to
a lawyer.
\_ I don't know how it would hold up in a challenge but i tended
to be vague and simply stated "any and all [inventions] while
working on project X..." (where x was often a domain name i had
registered. And on like that through enough types of projects
to cover everything, being slightly more specific (with worlds like
"...including but not limited those...") on those things i was
most worried about, had most developed or were most likely to be
similar to things i would be doing for the employer. |
| 2000/9/1 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:19147 Activity:very high |
8/31 My company went IPO a while ago and now I'm a 1/3 vested ISO option
multi-millionaire. I don't know what to do with the money I have and
I'm depressed. Please help. And no, I'm not into CSUA charity.
\_ Buy a large plot of land and thousands of garden gnomes, and
make a garden-gnome model silicon valley. -John
\_ Develop a "crowd suit" made of a full-body rubber drysuit, studded
with tons of electrically charged iron nubs and run through the
city knocking into people. -John
\_ Build a house shaped like a huge cucumber. -John
\_ Corner the world pig market. -John
\_ Have someone develop a space station for you, shoot it into
orbit, and have it manned by spider monkeys. -John
\_ Become "eccentric" and walk around in a bathrobe. -John
\_ Why would this depress you? Buy a house you like in a city you
\_ Mary a gold digger, they'll show you how to spend your money.
\_ MOTD spelling god was here.
like so you're not h0zed if the market crashes or your company
dies and then just continue living life as before. Put the rest
into something safe and long term. Hire a CPA.
\_ So look at a "real" charity. Find one that actually makes a
apper to be. She's truly in love with him. He's
broke.
difference in something meaningful to YOU.
Might I suggest getting rid of homeless people in berkeley?
\_ Marry a gold digger, they'll show you how to spend your money.
\_ You misunderstand homelessness, friend. The homeless will always
be here, even if wealth was distributed evenly. It's a matter
of psychology, not economics.
\_ Wasn't there a book by a formerly homeless guy disputing
this? Haven't read it... any reviews?
\_ If he's "formerly" homeless then he isn't like 99% of them.
\_ Dude, he didn't say why not "make them wealthy and happy"
We're talking about getting RID of them no matter by which
means. They well deserve it.
\_ In this case, please sign your name.
\_ Golddiggers can help you spend your money.
\_ "They"? You mean "she". Some things can never be
PC-ified.
\_ Its gender netural now.
\_ Could be a female poster talking about a male
golddigger. Some things are not quite what they
appear to be. She's truly in love with him. He's
broke. By the way, you should really look into
a sensitivity training class.
\_ Male golddigger? Oh please. Like that exists. Like
there's enough single women with money just waiting
to take care of your fat ugly face. You should really
look into the real world and they way things really
are. For ever "male golddigger" there's a billion
"female golddiggers". I'll grant about half a dozen
so-called male gold diggers on the planet. None on
the motd or knowing anyone on the motd. And you
could look into a better dictionary to find out what
it means as well.
\_ You dont know enough women. Wouldn't say "male
gold-digger", but a few guys earn less than
their woman. Not me of course. And it would be
"they" if they were Playboy Playmates from
one of the Twins or Sisters issues.
If you spent your stock on playmates, I bet
you wouldnt be so(as) depressed.
\_ Yes!! I am the ultimate troll3r. But really,
you should look into a sensitivity training class.
\_ "They"? You mean "she". Fuck being PC, first get your
grammar write. -grammarmonger
\_ Well, perhaps marry was an incorrect term.
The possibility that poster is a fag or a
dyke must be considered, thus the pronoun
is "they" rather than she. (I guess you
could make a case that a gold digging fag
is really a "she").
\_ Fuck you! I am male, and I am a gold-digger.
I fuck women for their money. I know the
tiny brain behind your pimply-arse of a face
can never imagine that, but please don't
erase my existence, arsehole. |
| 2000/8/11 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18969 Activity:nil |
8/11 I am a contractor and my client wants me to take some stock instead
of cash as payment. This is for 3-4 months required to finish the
project that went into overtime. How do I calculate the number of
shares that (given some risk factor) would match the decrease in
my hourly rate? Looking for a URL with an explanation and a formula,
if one exists. These will probably be non-qualifying stock options.
\_ Don't do it. They'll stiff you.
\_ More or less yes and that's why I want to make an
informed decision |
| 2000/8/7-8 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18909 Activity:high |
8/7 A variation on the salary increase question from last week. Which
person is considered wealthier according to your standards. I'll
take stock options out of the picture, since both persons can have
stock while making different salaries.
Person A -- making 120K a year. Spending nearly all the money on
expensive restaurants, clothes, a BMW, fancy apartment,
etc. Nearly 0 in savings.
Person B -- making 70K a year. Drives an old toyota, rents a house
with 3 other people, brings his own lunch. Saves nearly
30K a year.
\_ This question is flawed.
\_ I agree. The question is deeply flawed. At best you could
calculate total worth at the end of each quarter/year and
say that B probably owns more than A and is therefore
wealthier but quality of life has unmeasurable value.
\_ both are idiots.
\_ Both are wealither than me. I make $90K a year and I don't spend
money on expensive restaurants (or hardly any restaurants), clothes,
computers, AV equipments, trips or fancy car, and I only pay
$2100K/mo on mortgage. But I still save $0 because I have to give
$1K/mo and all the money I made from stock options to my parents
and they still wonder why I'm not saving any money!
\_ Why do you give them money? What's wrong with them?
\_ Must be asian parents.
\_ Not all asian parents are like that. My parents
(indian) helped my buy my options. jj's parents
(chinese) let him freeload too.
\_ Person A gets more pussy. Person B is more certain to have money
when he's old, but he'll regret his boring life.
\_ What about Person C:
Person C -- making 80K a year. Drives pre-owned luxury car,
lives with parents, brings lunch that mom makes.
Has fast DSL/Cable line as only recurring expense.
Saves ~ 40K a year.
\_ Forgot, also has several has several hundred K
in options since he has the cash to buy them,
unlike A and B.
\_ Wow, sounds like me.
\_ And me. Its an economical lifestyle. I'll eventually become
a millionare.
\_ Person D -- wealthy in spirit and rich in life.
\_ This is a trollish lifestyle question, not a salary increase
question. My lifestyle has improved from 70k --> 120k but not
the way you have it. I don't throw all my money away but I spend
more now than I did to improve my quality of life. I also save.
\_ The question is "who is wealthier". Not who has better lifestyle
Lifestyle is highly subjective. Does bill gates have a better
lifestyle than Mother Theresa? More money != better lifestyle.
Wealth, however, is an absolute measure of money. Just because
you make money doesn't mean that you have more. I'd have to
say that person B is wealthier for the simple reason that he
has more money in the bank than person A at the end of every
year.
\_ Person C gets no pussy, does he. Infact, person C probably turned
to computers as "his olnly friend" when the big bad bullies of
jr high took his lunchmoney. This was infuriated later when he
tried to ask a girl out in high school and she laughed in his face
awww, poor nerd boy. poor poor nerd boy.
\_ The "poor nerd boy" is laughing all the way to the bank.
\_ Thousands ain't gonna make you rich. You are lapping at the scraps
that business folks are throwing at you. Only relax when you
can measure your net worth, and holdings and have to use floats
- paolo
a career.
\_ No but options are. By living at home you can afford to max
out your 401K and your ESPP and buy all your vested options
which will put you into the big leagues over the course of
a career. Yes you have no woman, but you $'s. $'s are forever.
You can use $'s to get women at any age. 40 yr old multi-
millionare nerd boys can get more play than 24 year old
BMW boy.
\_ cunt
\_ i measure my net worth in octal, i must be poor. you moron.
\_ no, you're just a smart ass geek.
\_ decimals: 0.00002
\_ person A and B are cunts. In fact so is person C. That's what C
stands for.
\_ I claim that paolo authored this entire motd entry, in a fit
of jealous rage against kinney. |
| 2000/7/31-8/1 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18834 Activity:high |
7/31 Why would stock split affect the stock price? Wouldn't the total
valuation of the company stay the same? Afterall, it is the
percentage gain/loss, not the actual dollar amount, that matters.
\_ Why do I have to eat? I get hungry sometimes, and I eat,
but then my shoes are too big.
\_ why are you a such a moron/freak?
\_ because people are irrational. (don't tell me this is the first bit
of evidence you have noticed). -crebbs
\_ stock split really shouldn't affect price. But at Crebbs says,
people are irrational. Plus, a stock split often means that
the management is very confident in their performance. Plus,
people like to buy in 100 lot shares. The lower the price,
the easier it is to buy 100 lot shares.
\_ trend analysis shows that average stock performance after a
split is actually lower than before. but it's not very
significant either way. You used to have to buy in lots of
100 shares or else pay a lot extra, but that's no longer true.
-tom
\_ some people actually do trading not on the actual split
date, but on the split announcement. Some people
buy on the rumour, and sell on the news (the split).
\_ but in answer to the initial query, viewed with
reasonable time scales in mind, splits are noop's.
-tom
\_ yermom is all but noop
\_ whoa... I need to go back to bed... I find
myself agreeing with tom.... Must be a bad
dream... see you in a few hours. zzzzzzz... |
| 2000/7/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:18772 Activity:nil |
7/24 Motd depression poll: How many sodans keep their own company?
\_ yes
\_ No, I hate my own company. That's why I keep so much other
company buried under the floorboards.
\_ spooky |
| 2000/7/20-21 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18734 Activity:kinda low |
7/20 SDLI $500+ by the end of the month! It's unstoppable man!
-MSFT millionaire and now fiber optics millionaire
\_ Good for you. But you're still a luser. Go away.
\_ Can you say JDSU?
\_ motd poll. What's more exciting? Sex or watching your favorite
stock go up $68 (20%) in a day?
sex 0
stock 1
sex while watching your favorite stock go up 1 |
| 2000/7/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:18594 Activity:very high |
7/5 Are most startups shitty places to work, or is it only startups
managed by fobs (indian or otherwise)?
I'm leaving a shitty fob startup and just wanted to get an idea
if other startups are just as bad as mine.
\_ I work at a startup and I love it. -- ilyas
\_ tell us about the fobs, ilyas...
\_ FOB = Fresh Off Boat, ie any non-english speaking
style and socially impared immigrant, esp Asian. -- troll
\_ I don't think you got the point. Is it managed by fobs?
\_ FOB = Fresh Off Boat, ie any non-english speeking
style and socially impared imigrant, esp Asian. -- troll
\_ Well, I am answering his question. Also, I always thought
fob was some sort of vietnamese high-school gang thing.
-- ilyas
\_ Well, you were always wrong. Love those ivory towers....
\_ do NOT work for an Indian company. They're shrewd and really
know how to rip you off.
\_ I worked at two startups not managed by fobs and I love them.
-- fob
\_ Been at 1 fob, 2 non fobs. First nonfob was bought out and never
really went anywhere. fob was ok but I left after a year. Now
at non-fob. It's ok. Everyone company has problems. Pick a
company with problems you can deal with.
\_ fobs typically smell really bad because of a blatant disregard
of body odor and basic oral hygiene...
- the anti-fob
\_ Yes, and the only people that can equal them are the fat
natives. I think it's because they can't clean under their
thick folds of flesh. I used to have a fat native colleague
and a fat native TA. They smell really bad! One has fingers
so fat he can barely type. He keeps making mistakes and saying
\_ Let's kill and eat them! Save the cows! Kill a fat
native!
"Oops! Sorry! Fat fingers!". The fat native colleague is
somewhat of an asshole too ... - the anti-fat-natives
\_ My fobs weren't smellier than any other engineers and
mostly less so.
\_ Save cows! Kill and eat fat natives!
\_ The Cow King appreciates your sentiment.
\_ Someone did put a hat on some ham!
\_ startups have startup problems. fobs have fob problems. fob
startups have fob and startup problems.
\_ FOBs drive the American economy; 2GOBs are still ok. 3GOBs and
thereafter are mostly fat lazy fucks.
\_ That's the side effect of naturalizing. Too bad.
\_ Nah, it's a direct effect. They become just like the
rest of the population and by generation 4 or 5 start
joining the welfare lists with all the blacks and half
the mexicans. |
| 2000/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Industry/Startup] UID:18461 Activity:very high |
6/14 http://www.adjectivity.com \_ I like how they grow to great lengths to talk about "Project Mercury" without ever actually explaining what "Project Mercury" is. This is just another moronic startup. There is no new ground breaking technology here just like all those other stupid startups who claim they do but really don't. \_ Yet another web startup. God, what do you guys actually do besides IPO? \_ you must be joking \_ no, I'm joeking. -- joeking \_ "universe everywhere is equally dense with idiots" \_ dans they got the buzzword thing down. \_ thank you for adding more buzzords to the industry, fuckers \_ it's dans's startup. \_ dans, you are a moron \_ The name is terrible and stupid, but perhaps, just maybe, that was intentional. \_ I'd just like to point out that there's a Bill Gates quote on there, and the color makes it look like a baby underwear store. Otherwise, it's an alright idea; some specifics would be nice though. -John \_ So, uhm, ok, I read the 5 or so pages. It looks like they're developing a web browser. The description could have come from 1992 from a Netscape PR flak talking about NS 1.0. I like how they got the buzzword thing down, but I'd avoid pointing out the value of all that student talent in a frat house basement. And don't fucking edit the content of my posts you fucking asshole. I said what I meant. If you want to delete the whole thing, go ahead, but don't chop off half a sentence and stick a period in to change the entire meaning of my post. Fuck you and the college boys hacking in a frat basement. \_ what do you have against hacking out code in a basement? \_ You missed the point. The emphasis was on the word "frat" \_ ok, i'll bite, what do you have against hacking code in a frat basement (as opposed to a regular basement?) The software written there does _not_ become the property of the frat any more than it would some berkeley building owner if they got an office in dt berkeley. \_ A bunch of drunken frat boys hacking in a basement is *not* considered a positive business statement which might convince a VC to cough up a few million bucks or a business partner to bet his company on your product. That you would ask such a question explains why SV is full of Stanford founders and not Cal founders. Cal could really use some basic business classes for engineers. Practical stuff, not macroeconomics. \_ wow, who's working at http://intel.com? |
| 2000/6/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:18454 Activity:low |
6/12 How do you find suid programs in a directory structure. I've tried
find -perm -4000 .
as the man pages states but all I get is
find: illegal option -- p
find: illegal option -- e
find: illegal option -- r
find: illegal option -- m
find: illegal option -- 4
find: illegal option -- 0
find: illegal option -- 0
find: illegal option -- 0
\_ Try "find . -perm -4000" instead.
\_ Is there a list of programs that should be SUID?
\_ Yes. There are many in fact - a different one for each
version of each flavor of Unix, plus a whole other set
for different packages you may have added on.
\_ According to http://rootprompt.org only mail and sendmail
need be suid.
\_ http://rootprompt.org is wrong. In fact it's really
badly wrong, since sendmail doesn't need to be
suid (though it usually is). -tom
\_ su, rlogin, rsh all become pretty useless without
the setuid bit. (Although for rsh & rlogin, that
may be a good thing.) -alan- |
| 2000/6/12-14 [Industry/Startup, Industry/Jobs] UID:18450 Activity:high |
6/12 This is prob. been asked many times already, but what is the
standard scale for converting from hourly/contractor to yearly/
employee? Have choice btwn stock option or bonus structure but
I think i will take bonus structure... -sky
\_ Hourly->Yearly is multiply by 2000, but contractor->employee is
much harder.
\_ hourly->yearly is correct. but for contractor->employee i
usually like to do hourly * 1000. so if you're making
$120/hr, that would be $240,000 annual. but if you want to be an
employee, it would give around $120,000 or maybe slightly more.
-uctt
\_ Wow! Are you saying that a company will pay twice as much
to a contractor as opposed to an employee? Why? I do realize
to a contractor as opposed to an employee?
\_ no, he's saying that contractors have to pay more of their
money to the gubmint as taxes
Why? I do realize
that as a contractor you have to pay self-employment
tax, health insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc.
When I account for all this it seems to me that contractors
should get about 1.4--1.5 times as much as salaried employees.
How do you come up with your x2 number. Thanks. -emin
\_ yes, they will pay twice as much for a contractor over a
salaried employee. why?
1. usually contractors are better skilled
\_ Hahahahhahahhhahaa.. cough.. gasp... wheeze....
\_ contrary to popular belief, not everyone
(other than you) is stupid. every day
our group is looked at to make sure that
we are adding value to the client's
projects. and every day they realize
that for every one of our guys we do the
work of at least 3 of their employees.
we work longer hours and more
importantly, we're more productive.
that's why they can justify to their
C-levels the amount of money that is
being spent. start your own company
and maybe you'll learn. -uctt
\_ Sounding pretty defensive. I'm sure
each of you is a tremendous value-add
and >insert buzzwords 4 through 16 here<
Yep. You're worth any 10 normal men!
2. you can get them quickly. if you need 2 highly skilled
java EJB developers with 2+ years of java experience,
it will take you at least 2 months to interview 10+
people and find 2 good ones and have them start. with
contractors, you can have 2 in your office in 1-2
weeks.
3. if you only need them for 3-6 months, you can get them
to agree to that. try telling a salaried employee that
"your salary is $120k but you may have to get fired in
3 months cuz we won't need you then".
4. they usually do not give them stock, they usually can
make them work, and they can usually get rid of them
relatively painlessly whenever they want to.
short answer? flexibility. that flexibility is worth
paying 2x. the 2x comes from experience of hiring
contractors, hiring employees, and hiring
contractors->employees. -uctt
\_ uctt, are you a contractor? what do you do?
\_ contract.
\_ No wonder he thinks contractors are more skilled.
\_ full time employee at my own startup now. never contracted in my
life. but i did spent some time in big 5 consulting managing
various e-Commerce projects and our team of consultants from big
5 was always much better than the employees in the client company
(that's why they were paying us $275-$350/hr to be there) -uctt
\_ No. They were paying that so management could have someone
to blame when it all falls to shit. No one pays you more
because you're more skilled. They don't have a basis to
judge your skill level.
\_ of course that's a big part of it. we'll take
the blame if it all "falls to shit". it's called
taking RESPONSIBILITY and i'll take the
responsiblity for a project in exchange for the
big bucks that they have to pay us. i've
met morons in consulting. i've met a lot more
morons that work as full time employees for the
client. -uctt
\_ You know why that is, right? The companies
that don't need your expertise don't hire
you. If there's a better staff in house then
likely they'll go with that. Granted,
sometimes management does stupid things
anyway, but I bet this helps explain your
experiences. --dim
\_ Holy cow! I find myself agreeing 100% with
dim. Hell has just frozen over.
\_ I think it's a great idea to hire
consultants when the current staff
is better. What's the matter with
you?!? |
| 2000/6/6 [Industry/Startup] UID:18420 Activity:nil |
6/5 Another informal poll--
.com IPOs will last another year 501
\_ Man they better not be over before I graduate!
.com IPOs are over 3
\_ Human stupidity is infinite.
\_ Software .com craze is over. Hardware rules. Period.
\_ Yeeeeeh mannn, hardware r00lz! software for l0zersss |
| 2000/5/30-6/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:18366 Activity:high |
5/30 Is it ethical to leave your company on the day that 1/2 of your
options vest?
\_ That has no bearing on the reason why you are leaving, unless
it is the reason. If it is the reason, then you are a fool.
\_ Hello, I am st00pid sodan.
\_ Of course. Options are compensation, just like salary.
\_ yeup. If they wanted to make sure you stayed longer, they
would have made the vesting period longer. Although you might
give them a little notice, so that they can make a counteroffer.
\_ Ethics has nothing to do with anything. Welcome to the Valley.
\_ All's fair. Frankly, I wish everyone had the job-switching
liberty that most tech people are accustomed to. Every job
you have is just another one until the job you love.
\_ rightly said....that almost sounds like the opening to
"Quantum Leap"
\_ Still looking for it. In the meantime, every hop is a
nice increase in salary and another chance to make it big
if any of these options ever become worth anything. Why
put all your eggs in one basket? The CEO and founders will
be gazillionaires if they make it. You won't. Spread it
around to improve your odds.
\_ rightly said....that almost sounds like the opening to
"Quantum Leap"
\_ Really? I thought it sounded more like yermom's approach
to mating.
\_ Your employer won't think of it as unethical when he wants to lay
you off during "re-structuring" (not necessarily down-sizing), so
why should you care? -- yuen
\_ Try to leave on vest day + epsilon. Just in case your employee
wants to mess with you by doing off by n things with your vest
date. |
| 2000/5/25-29 [Industry/Startup] UID:18340 Activity:kinda low |
5/24 The company I work for is hiring like it's a two-bit whore.
Pre-IPO. Shitload of options. See the big list in
/csua/pub/jobs/ROI_Direct and send me your resume. -seano
\_ Beware the Moonies!
\_ what makes you think these people are moonies?
\_ Seano no longer works for moonies. Seano works for evil
soul selling spammers now. -John
\_ I didn't know that two-bit whore's hired people. I
though that two-bit whore's got paid by people. If
you need to pay the company to work there it must suck.
And if its a two-bit whore of a company you might get
a vd or something.
\_ The Apostrophic Jihad will have you're head on a plate!
\_ your
\_ YHBT, HTH, HAND.
-- tmonroe
\_ seano wasn't an English major. He's trying his best.
\_ This has nothing to do with anything. I'm just dumb.
-seano
\_ Well... to clarify for the impotent of imagination, a
two-bit whore - less discriminating than a standard whore -
was naturally easier for ANY man (or dyke), from most all
walks of life, to get off on. Likewise, the employ of the
company is comprised largly of men and dykes and is not as
pretty as other dot-com start-ups much in the same way that
a two-bit whore was not as pretty as the average whore.
a two-bit whore was not as pretty as the average whore. The
important point that you are missing in your blindingly
adolescent analysis is that it's all about sacrificing as
little as possible to get in on the Big Hole. C'mon, little
timid boy... are you afraid to take your pants off? -seano
\_ You sound defensive. Are you ashamed of working there?
\_ WTF are you babbling about? More importantly, can I have
a few hits from your bowl? |
| 2000/5/16-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:18282 Activity:nil |
5/16 When you go to a post-IPO company that grants you stock options,
what's the typical price (percentage wise)?
\_ market price on the date granted.
\_ depends on company. Some are priced the day you come in,
some come on a pre-specified date after you come in,
other combos exist.
\_ Depending on the company, 0-25% off the market price 0-90 days
after you start. |
| 2000/5/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:18217 Activity:low |
5/9 I am caught in between the crossfire of my Manager and the product
manager. I've finished up a project early, and my Manager told me
not to tell anyone about it. And whenever the Product Manager come
by to ask me about the progress on the project, I was instructed (by
my manager) to tell him nothing but I am working on it. The moral of
the story: take care of yourself at work places -- doing something you
have a passion of, but also get the proper respect or in many cases,
compensation.
\_ The moral of the story is that your company isn't healthy,
especially if it is small. You may consider looking for another
job unless you enjoy working in the company of people who will
think nothing of backstabbing each other or undermining the
welfare of the company for the sake of personal gain. Do you
think you will be treated honorably by these same people?
\_ What's the problem? You're done earlier; you're telling the
ProdM you're still on it; your Manager is happy because he or
she knows you're done early; no one's late.
\_ the problem is, it's hard to be inconsistent with your answer when
you are in a small company. Basically, I have to present my project
to the tech writers for wording changes. And the product manager
is in charge of the tech writers. He constantly checks with them.
\_ So let me guess: From the tech writers the ProdM knows you're
project is much ahead of schedule. So the ProdM gets into
a discussion with your Manager re not disclosing that you
were done early. Not your fault; no big deal. The disagreement
is between your Manager and the Prod. |
| 2000/5/4-5 [Industry/Startup] UID:18175 Activity:kinda low |
4/34 When was the last startup->IPO hype? Was it in the 1960's
(aeronautics), 1950's (automobile), 1970's (electrical)???
How long do you think this internet startup->IPO hype will last?
\_ Never before and never again. (The big automakers were all
public long before the 1950's.)
\_ There is certainly no comparison between the stuff now and
biotech startups in the 80's. |
| 2000/4/17-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:18035 Activity:nil |
4/17 Postscript on a discussion about stock options that occurred on the wall
last week... At my company the options are nonqualifying (NQ), whereas
at many others, they're ISO (Incentive Stock Options). The tax
ramifications of the two are different, hence my claim that it is best
to wait as long as possible to exercise (which is correct for NQ). Just
trying to clear up any confusion I may have caused. -emarkp
\_ http://fairmark.com/execcomp/iso.htm |
| 2000/4/5-6 [Computer/HW/Scanner, Industry/Startup] UID:17928 Activity:moderate |
4/4 Does anyone have recommendations or experiences to share on
document conversion from hard copy to pdf? Specifically, any
recommended company?
\_ You mean Word document to pdf?
\_ Paper to pdf.
\_ Why don't you just create the document from scratch
and generate the PDF from there. It'll be much easier
than trying to scan it and get it to PDF (I don't even
know if that exists). Or you can always do what that
dude who scanned tjb's resume and converted to PDF did
but then you get a giant bitmap stored in PDF format
which is a pretty stupid idea if you ask me.
\_ Would do that, except that it is high volume.
It would take a long time to do all of them.
\_ Good scanner, good OCR program, good word processor,
import into Acrobat. -John
\_ http://www.cardiff.com - haven't used them, but they have a lot of
cool (expensive) shit. |
| 2000/3/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:17860 Activity:nil |
3/25 If someone has the .com name I want How do I approach
the person to buy? Just send a note?
\_ Have your lawyer send them a cease and desist notice
and then threaten to sue. It helps to have deeper
pockets and better connections than the person who
owns the .com you want. |
| 2000/3/24-25 [Industry/Startup] UID:17841 Activity:nil |
3/23 What is the command/option to create shared libraries
on linux? It seems like ar generates static libraries,
but I don't see an option to create shared libraries.
Can anyone offer me a clue? Thanks.
\_ ld or gcc -shared |
| 2000/3/20-21 [Industry/Startup] UID:17806 Activity:moderate |
3/20 My company allows us to purchase options that aren't vested yet.
So I purchased all four year's worth in 1999. So now I owe AMT.
My question is, do I have to report only the vested and exercised
shares by 12/31/99 or do I have to report all my shares even the
unvested ones? It sounds stupid if I have to pay AMT even on
shares I don't technically own yet.
\_ You must report all exercised shares. (Exercised means you
purchased them whether they've vested or not) You only have to
pay the spread between the current stock option price and the
price *granted* to you. (Assuming this is a private company)
Although it does sound stupid, the reason why you would do this
is because if you purchase your stocks immediately at the
grant price when it is the *same* as the purchase price, you
won't have to pay AMT. (You'll still have to pay capital gains,
however) --chucky
\_ If I read this, you also won't get the primary benefit of
options--that is your option to buy at a certain price is unused
if you buy the stock at the fair market value, since that's what
every other trader is buying the stock for. |
| 2000/3/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:17662 Activity:nil |
2/29 Anyone hear about News Corp. merging with Yahoo!? What will this
do for the stock of these two companies? --dim
\_ Plunge like a stone in a lake. A deep lake.
\_ Take a look at AOL.
\_ Which to short? How short? --dim
\_ Don't short a huge money making company that has a 20m
captive subscriber base. Duh. |
| 2000/2/17 [Industry/Startup] UID:17537 Activity:nil |
2/17 XUMA infosession tonight at the Faculty Club, 7 PM. XUMA is "a
pre-IPO e-commerce solutions company located in San Francisco."
Joe Cha, CEO and co-founder will be speaking and taking questions.
-dans |
| 2000/2/16 [Industry/Startup] UID:17519 Activity:nil |
2/16 What is a good avg. starting salary for a methamphetamine dealer?
None of that pre-IPO nasty crank stuff, I'm talking investment
grade crystal here. |
| 2000/2/10-11 [Industry/Startup] UID:17479 Activity:high |
2/9 Someone recently asked me to join their net startup. They've
already got three programmers, an internal prototype with the
requisite software and hardware, but only did the incorporation
paperwork about five months ago. I have their business plan and
they seem to have pretty good connections. The programmers are
all grad students and the others are MBA students and they seem
pretty knowledgable and cool. If I don't put any money in, what
can I, as a fourth programmer who's also a grad student, expect as
fair compensation? (I was thinking $40-60K as opposed to $60-80K
for a corporation or better-funded startup, but I'm really not
sure what I should get in terms of equity ...)
\- IMHO, anyone giving you advice [as opposed to meta-advice
like me] is deluded ... I dont think you can possibly give
advice based on this info. I think the only way to decide what
if fair is to compare your skills, contribution and risks to
the other people and find out what they are getting compared
to you. --psb
\_ This company should have funding by now unless they don't for a
particularly good reason. If they have funding, there is NO reason
for the startup to pay full fair. As a graduating undergraduate,
I'm looking between 55k and 80k. 60-65k seems to be about what most
startups are offering. Being a grad student, you should be able
to get about the same salary, perhaps with a bit more equity, but
not necessarily. If they don't have funding, you probably won't
be able to get paid for a while, and you should get a lot more
equity. Maybe something like 0.2%-1.0%. If they have funding,
expect between .03%-.25%.
\_ psb nailed this one.
\_ ppl seem *really* adverse to talking about stock options
that is too bad since so many are in the dark about this
sort of thing and often get screwed by the beancounters.
You have to ask "how many oustanding shares exist?"
You have to ask "how many outstanding shares exist?"
Then you ask what range the negotiator was thinking about.
Then you put out what you were thinking, in a way
where you don't come off as demanding, but also to
let him/her know you are not to be fux0red with.
Given the circumstances you describe (I don't know
what kind of work experience you have or how many
years) I'd ask for .25 to 1%, with 2 to 4 year vesting
given that the company has 10 to 50 million
outstanding shares, which is about what I've gathered is an
industry standard. Call me delusional. - tpc
\_ They won't give you 2 year vesting at a company
this young. You'll be fully vested before they
go public. Not a chance. 1%?? You better be
prepared to live on site for the next two years
for that. This shit doesn't come free. I'd rather
have my .20% and a life, thanks. The odds are so
heavily stacked against a startup making it that
you'd have to be ice cold brain dead stupid to give
up your life for it in the slightest. -startup guy
\_ For a fresh hire to get 1%... that's a lot. But
if you're a senior guy, you can get 1% and keep
a 40-50hr work week. Most fresh hires I know
get offered 10k shares but think that is really
good and don't even know how many are outstanding
\_ 1% is stunningly high. If you're a senior
guy and getting 1%, you're living on site.
If you're not, the company is dead because
they didn't give you 1% to sit on your ass.
You're getting 1% to do 5 people's worth of
work. They can give that 1% to 5 or 10
other people (.2% - .1% each) so no you're
totally stupid if you think you're getting
a huge number like that and going home at
5pm. They don't have enough options left
to give to others if they give every 40
hour/week slacker that much. I've been
there and done that in several startups and
am a "senior guy". I'd like to know the
name of the funded startup that's giving
away options like water in a rain storm.
\_ This is all absurd! When negotiating and asking for percentage
of common stock, you gain very little. You do not know what
dilution will do to your share long term. The only people that
can demand PERCENTAGE ownership are the first X formative guys...
If you want to get it right, you need plans, business case data,
etc. and then take a guess at what anti-dilution various investors
(a co-founder) - but let's say on the 1st floor (< 6-months-old)?
will get...give it up. Just take the number, the total authorized
shares, and the outstanding. Then ask for the current valuation,
and the est. IPO price (you prolly can't get this either). Then
decide how much you would stand to make and pad actual salary
accordingly. Get it up front as cash or get in at the start for
like 5-10% and ridiculously low salary if you believe in the
product / can afford to play.
\_ hello, reality check. You guys are talking about 6-person,
< 6-month-old startups, right? I'm getting the impression
people are referring to 20-50 person startups already past
their first round of VC funding. Is it really .1-.3% vested
in (let's say) 3 years for a company that young? Is that
what's normal for being - not necessarily on the ground floor
(a co-founder) - but on the "1st floor" (< 6-months-old)?
\_ What's normal is how well you negotiate and nothing more. The
"industry standard" is a myth. |
| 2000/2/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:17470 Activity:high |
2/9 Is it possible for sys adm to get stock options?
\_ It's possible for any employee to get stock options. You think
only coders get stock? Hell, our receptionist gets stock. The
intern we hired gets stock. Geeze. Everyone gets stock.
\_ Hourly employees may find it harder to get stock since the
Dept. of Labor ruled that they should get stock-and-a-half
for overtime as well as time-and-a-half.
\_ At Cisco our lab admins and sys admins get decent pay and health
stock options. They also get to play with all the cool new stuff
and get to take the old not so useful for work stuff home. If you
treat them nice, sometimes they will even give a humble engineer
an old router, a switch or a few workstations.
\_ Coders are usually too stupid to treat sysadmins nice. I
suspect it's due more to lack of basic social skills rather
than arrogance but this remains only a theory.
\_ Have a cookie.
\_ I'll just keep all the toys and lock down your
workstation instead, thanks.
\_ Silence techno-janitor! Back to scrubbing the
toilets!
\_ Eat me. I make more than you and don't work
more than an hour a week for it.
\_ No you don't, my green-skinned friend.
The only reason you make more than a
normal janitor is because your job is
even less appealing. Now go clean up a
mess somewhere.
\_ /bin/rm -rf ~coderidiot Now go take
a shower.
\_ Yes, yes. Try that BOFH
bullshit at a real company, and
see how long you ll last.
Now clean faster, boy! |
| 2000/2/2-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:17398 Activity:moderate |
2/1 When is the next gm?
\_ This came up at this evening's politburo meeting. We are shooting
for some time this month. Is there anyone you'd like to see speak?
-dans
\_ Want to see tjb speak.
\_ Trevor! We know you are reading this! Please show up on the GM today
and join our honorable, professional organization of talented
individuals! - tjb's #1 motd fan.
\_ Trevor doesn't have the balls. All talk. Anyway, you really
_want_ him to show up and bore you to tears? What a whiner....
\_ What do people think of a panel covering Berkeley student/alum
experiences with startups? We'd have people who've founded
startups as well as people who came on later.
-dans
\_ I think that would be great. -Galen
\_ Agree. Add a vote for that. -dlwhite
\_ Better would be Stanford alums who founded startups.
\_ Is $tanfurd really better than Cal at startup success rate?
I mean, for every Hotbot, is there a Yahoo and a Google?
\_ Hotbot? Hotbot is a property of Wired Digital which
failed _two_ IPO's and was eventually gobbled up by
Lycos. I hope you weren't implying that "Hotbot"
was somehow a successful (or unsuccessful) company.
It was nothing more than a service once owned by
Wired and now Lycos. And yes, Stanford has more
startups which are more successful.
-worked there, only mildly bitter now, recovering
\_ Stanford: Sun, Yahoo
\_ Don't forget Cisco.
Berkeley: Inktomi, Ingres
Which looks more successful to you?
\_ Golly, sounds like Berkeley!!!11 Stanfurd sukz!1
SV is packed with zillions of Farmer startups.
You can count the Cal startups on your thumbs.
And yes even though most of the Farmers will
fail, many will not. They won't all be Yahoos
but you don't have to be Yahoo to be considered
successful. "There can be only one.>ka-chunk!<" |
| 2000/2/1 [Recreation/Humor, Industry/Startup] UID:17395 Activity:kinda low |
1/31 Anyone here work for Scient?
\_ yep. -tcmoore
\_ wanna hook-up? :)
\_ Volkert, is that you?
\_ um, is this like, a 3 person company joke?
\_ presumably, this is ...ology, the organization
that regularly scans websites and shuts them down
for unauthorized use of their trademarks.
\_ Get a web browser, twink.
\_ yes. dyu.
\_ Wow. The enemy. Perhaps when you're done without innovatively
named companies like Scient, you can move on to Viant, Lucent,
Agilent, or Aquent.
\_ Hey, you got a problem with Lucent?
\_ Just the naming company that produced that, and so many
other sparkling Namients.
\_ Are people who work for Scient called Scientologists?
\_ No.
\_ well, I think it would be funny if they were... |
| 2000/1/31-2/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:17385 Activity:moderate |
1/31 Anyone here work for Scient..?
\_ yep. -tcmoore
\_ wanna hook-up? :)
\_ Volkert, is that you?
\_ um, is this like, a 3 person company joke?
\_ presumably, this is ...ology, the organization
that regularly scans websites and shuts them down
for unauthorized use of their trademarks.
\_ yes. dyu.
\_ Wow. The enemy. Perhaps when you're done without innovatively
named companies like Scient, you can move on to Viant, Lucent,
Agilent, or Aquent.
\_ Hey, you got a problem with Lucent?
\_ Just the naming company that produced that, and so many
other sparkling Namients.
\_ Are people who work for Scient called Scientologists? |
| 2000/1/23-24 [Computer/Rants, Industry/Startup] UID:17300 Activity:nil |
1/22 What are some good places where an employee can have his employment
contract evaluated, and where can one get good advice from an attorney
about stock options in employment. I am not sure whether I got a fair
shake. THanks
\_ A lawyer. |
| 2000/1/16-17 [Industry/Startup] UID:17248 Activity:high |
1/15 Hewlett Packard/Agilent Technologies infossession Wed January 19.
4-6pm Soda Hall - Wozniak Lounge. Refreshments provided.
\_ "The company that was like a startup will be a
startup again. Just watch."
\_ Except for the overwhelming beaurocracy, the ass kissing,
the politics, and zero options, and bloat.
\_ http://www.salon.com/media/col/shal/1999/11/30/naming/index.html
\_ even after reading that I can't understand HOW they could
choose such a dumbass name as Agilent. I hope someone was shot
over that gaffe.
\_ I liked the name Agilent, that is until I heard it was
based off the adjective "agile"
\_ And this kind of shit happens when there's just too much money
floating around this whole industry for _any_ productive use
thereof
\_ I liked the head of internet services guy who went off about how
the name was drawn from his inner child and into the world. How
do I get a high paying job to smoke dope all day?
\_ work for HP
\_ "Hey kid, want a job?"
\_ Hey kids, do yourself a favor. Don't work at some huge
corporation for your first job if you can help it. Yes,
the university counts as a huge corporation, only worse. |
| 2000/1/5-7 [Industry/Startup] UID:17165 Activity:high |
1/5 Thinking about joining a startup. Do you think now is a good time
to jump to startups, since many companies are overvalued already?
\_ Not all startups are the same. It's not like "I'm in a startup",
end of story. It's like "I'm in a startup with a good idea, a lot
of money, run by semi-clueful people, and I have rights to enough
options to retire if they successfully go public" vs. "I'm in yet
another dead startup". The latter is the norm. Let us know if you
find the former. -working in latter
\_ this sodan has the right idea. IMHO everyone in CS should take
a corporate, a startup, and an academic job (or be a grad
student) to begin to understand how to assess their long-term
career goals. Somewhere along the line you'll also understand
what a loser corporate/startup/academic job is, as well as the
really cool ones.
\_ Did academic, did semi-corporate, doing startup now. The
academic thing was ok but _very_ low paying and not very
challenging. I totally slack off like that and end up
doing nothing that way. Bad. Semi-corporate (mid sized
internet company) was terrible. This company in particular
had painfully bad management who did their best to screw up
the entire company. I bailed right before they finally
succeeded. Problem with being in a startup is you're too
close to get a really good feeling for how the rest of the
world thinks of what you're doing. I think my current
company is totally worthless yet I can see that the market
is very likely to shoot our stock into the heavens when we
IPO. Perhaps because I know too much. Or maybe all
startups are this messed up so it doesn't matter. See you
on the other side of retirement!!
\_ CoSine sucks
\_ CoSine?
\_ be a grad student, intern summers. startup on side.
\_ shut up nweaver
\_ you can't seriously do a 'startup on side'. Startups take
_more_ work, not less than a corporate job. |
| 2000/1/4-5 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17159 Activity:high |
1/4 I want to do business with a financial services firm that's pretty
new. Is there a way to check if they're legit and won't take my
money and run? The company is not publically traded, it's a small
LLC (limited liability company). Anyway to check on such a firm?
Thanks a lot.
\_ Is it FDIC insured?
\_ It's not FDIC insured. I'm dealing with a hedge fund, and
I'm not sure if the SEC is involved.
\_ If they deal with securities, i.e. stocks and bonds, and they
are not regulated by the SEC, then its NOT LEGIT
\_ How do you come to know them? If you cant easily find
information about them, i'd be very wary.
Are they in Money or Fortune magazine?
Are you investing in the hedge fund or something else?
If the former, do they offer you such a big
"guaranteed" return that a more conventional (known)
firm cant help you?
Dont they give you a prospectus? brochure at least?
\_ Check on the people who run it. Their history, background,
experience. Even check the BBB or the equivalent.
Who licenses these firms? SEC?
\_ Do a Dun and Bradstreet lookup. |
| 1999/12/29 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17117 Activity:nil |
12/29 Just curious: any VA Linux stock owners who bought at market (290)?
Down to ~176. |
| 1999/12/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:17077 Activity:low |
12.21 Anyone heard of a telco called Level3? any supp info that's not
on their webpage?
\_ yes, I even know a few folks who work there.
\_ so is it just another buzzword compliant startup with lots of
$$$ trying to build voice over ip? Looks like they want to
get rid of the sonel layer completely,
do you think they're a good buy (stock)
or a good company idea?
\_ Their datacenter in SF is pretty good. |
| 1999/12/18 [Industry/Startup] UID:17063 Activity:kinda low |
12/18 Hello, I work at a small internet startup, and all I can
do is think about my stock options, at least twice a day,
I think about how much I'd get if they were worth $$$, and we
IPO, and I think about how many stocks my coworkers have, and
whether they have more, and whether I should ask for more
since I now only have 0.25% of the company and I feel I am vastly
overperform them. Stock Options! Is something
wrong with me? -daytrader
\_ If *all* you do is think of your options, pretty soon you won't
be "vastly overperform" your co-workers. Then you'll get fired,
and you'll have other things to worry about besides options --
like how to stop those damn punk kids who live on the other side
of your underpass from stealing *your* shopping carts all the
time. Damn kids! |
| 1999/11/20-22 [Industry/Startup] UID:16929 Activity:high |
11/19 Base Pay? Stock Options? Big Bonuses? What's your top priority?
\_ good management, pleasant co-workers, respect...
\_ This goes without saying. Wouldn't work under any other
conditions. Once those basic conditions are met, it depends.
\_ happiness+intellectual wealth. DOWN WITH INDUSTRY AND MATERIALISM!
GO ACADEMIA AND THE ABSTRACT HAPPINESS!!! INDUSRY SUCKS
AND ACADEMIA GOOD!!!!!!! B1FF R3WLS!!!
\_ Can I get any Cal stock options? Is there an IPO planned for
Cal anytime soon? If you can get me at least 25k options over
3-4 years, I'm in! GO BEARS IPO!
\_ <DEAD>Stanford.com<DEAD> seems more likely the <DEAD>cal.com<DEAD> |
| 1999/11/20-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16928 Activity:high |
11/19 What's the difference between stock warrants and stock options?
\_ You can think of warrants as buying stock on margin. Sort of.
Options you get as an employee/slave. Ask your broker for details
on warrants and why you can't afford to risk buying them.
\_ Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: warrants have an expiration date.
You must exercise them by that date or they simply expire and
then have zero value.
\_ You make no sense. Options have expiration dates too. Options
are not only for employee/slave/consultant-types. You can buy
them on the open market as well. The difference between options
and warrants is rather fine.
\_ The expiration date on your options is different because you
didn't shell out big bucks for the options. They have no
value at any point until you vest and then exercise them. You
paid real cash out of your pocket for warrants and then get X
many months to call them in which might possibly be at a huge
loss. The difference between options and warrants is huge.
People, *please* get a broker. Don't ask for this sort of
advice on the motd. You're likely as not to be told the wrong
thing or get invited on a bike ride or linux install party.
\_ You contnue to make no sense. If you bought your options
on the open market you still can lose big. Like I said
the line is fine. Talk to your accountant. (Not your broker.)
\_ Your open market purchase is not the same as employee
options. Talk to your own broker or accountant then come
back and you can educate us all and explain how warrants
and options are the same thing.
\_ Man, at least the other guy has some clue. You just
keep shoving your foot in your mouth up to your ankles.
keep shoving your feet in your mouth up to your ankles.
Last I checked, SHARES are bought on the open market.
Stock OPTIONS are usually issued by a company at a price
which is fixed or discounted at no cost to the employee.
They are usually vested (made available to the employee)
at a some rate which varies from company to company. Once
they are available, you have the OPTION (hence the name,
fuckwit) of exercising them at the agreed upon cost IF the
current market value is such that it would be profitable
to do so. Reminds me of something my dad used to say to
me: "If you don't know what you're talking about, SHUT THE
FUCK UP!" I think the other guy (the one you insist makes
no sense you freaking moron) has a good point when he says
you should be speaking with professionals rather than
listening to idiots like youself blather like the ESL
students that they are.
\_ there are also different tax implications --oj
\_ http://www.invest-faq.com
\_ My employer offers me ISOs as well as warrants as part of
compensation. He said warrants are almost the same as ISOs, and I
will vest them just like I vest ISOs.
motd chopped from here on down.
\_ Good riddance!
\_ Have you looked into doing circumcisions as a business venture?
\_ oh stop. you're getting me all hot and bothered.
\_ yeah but it was low pay, dirty work, no real IPO chances, and the market
is already flooded with others doing the same work for near nothing.
\_ ohmygod. OHMYGOD. OH...OHHHHH!!! *gasp, pant* See? Now lookit
what you've gone an made me do.... |
| 1999/11/15-16 [Industry/Startup] UID:16888 Activity:kinda low |
11/15 I'm coming to Berkeley to interview for my company on friday. The
company is Inventa, which is an internet consulting company. Check
out http://www.Inventa.com for more information. In brief, we are in the
business-to-business eCommerce market. We are looking for people
with technical skills, read C++ or Java. Our competitors are Scient,
Viant, and Sapient, but we are not yet public. In my experience this
is a great company that has given me great opportunities. If you
have any questions you can reach me at andreas@inventa.com -Andreas
\_ Usualy the list of B2B players includes Active Software,
Neon, TibCo, Vitria (at least until they die), and newcomer
Oracle. Never heard of Inventa.
\_ I believe they are like a system integrator. I don't think
they have a real product. Just resell service..
\_ Read their website. They aren't really a B2B company
but that's the hot buzzword right now so they use it.
They are yet another web deployment/customization service with
a specialty in eCom. |
| 1999/11/8 [Industry/Startup] UID:16843 Activity:high |
11/06 I didn't like the motd. I sure as hell didn't like Adobe being on
there. Nothing personal. I just don't like the way the company
name sounds when spoken aloud.
\_ "Elbereth!"
\_ What company name do you like to hear spoken aloud?
\_ Most anything else is ok, but Abode just bugs me.
\_ 'Abode' bothers you also? |
| 1999/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic, Industry/Startup] UID:16838 Activity:kinda low |
11/05 CNN says that Amazon and Starbucks are killing mom&pop stores.
We must boycott Amazon and Starbucks!!!
\_ No, we must boycott mom&pop stores which over charge you in
exchange for nothing more than some outmoded feel goodism. When
you can only buy cooks from one company, software from one company,
food from one company, etc. the world will be a better place just
like Switzerland.
\_ I say boycott Le Petit Market (that little store down the street
from Soda Hall). That guys a jerk. His store is just an over-
sized vending machine. I went in there almost everyday for a while
and when I finally won a free Mtn Dew under a cap, he charged me
tax to redeem it. Bastard.
\_ The guy at Petit Market is cool. You sound like one of the
whiney underage drinkers he chases out and refuses to sell to
who leave his store calling him an asshole after shop lifting
just to "punish him" for not selling you cheap beer. Waah, waah,
waah, you big baby. I'm not impressed with your silly baby Mtn.
Dew whine. Waaaaaaah! Tell it to someone who gives a shit. |
| 1999/10/24-26 [Industry/Startup] UID:16755 Activity:high |
10/22 Adobe is holding a College Open House next Thursday night (10/28) at
our headquarters in downtown San Jose, for those of you who are into
that new-college-grad-searching-for-job thing. More details are
posted in http://ucb.org.csua and other relevant newsgroups; E-mail me if
you have any questions. -- kahogan
\_ When are you coming on campus? I'm interested but am busy that night.
\_ Is it just me or are companies recruiting earlier?
\_ So you think this sys admin farm (CSUA) is a good place to recruit?
\_ For cheap inexperienced but enthusiastic labor, sure. Why pay
$100k+ for someone who knows what they're doing when you can have
two NCG CSUA members and have enough left over for a decent
hiring bonus to bring in the $100k+ guy after to clean up?
\_ Infosession on Nov. 11 (more details later on time and place),
interviews at career center on Nov. 16 & 17. -- kahogan
\_ As a new hire in a big ass company, how many years do I have to
spend debugging and testing before I can start doing something
interesting?
\_ 1.5 years in startups and then you'll be doing much more
interesting work at *any* company than you would otherwise
as a new college big-company-only wage slave. Day one at
any startup would be better than what you're doing now.
You might as well work for the university.
--been there, smarter now
\_ startups== lotsawork, not much pay.
\_ You're at the wrong startup. --low work, high pay
\_ most startups require a ton of work an half a
brain. after talking to people from trilogy
and lame ass startups i've found that most
of these people don't know what they're talking
about and aren't technically apt. all they know
how to do is stupid web pages and asp shit.
\_ known as "not doing proper research on your
company before signing papers". It's your own
fault if you end up at a startup like that.
\_ that is what is known as a lame startup. There
are good ones out there but you have to be
willing to look. My advice is spend a year
or two in a not so glorious job learning the
way the real world works (and why it sucks
and why a good job is a must if you want
to sane) and making contacts and then once you
have saved up some money and don't need to take
a job right away, start looking and be choosy.
Oh and if you have to convince yourself that
you won't hate a certain job, you will hate it.
\_ Totally right on with that last line. 100%
\_ I can't speak for other peoples' experience in *other* big-ass
companies, but at Adobe I was doing something interesting within
my first week. Over the two-and-a-half years since I graduated
from Cal, I've had my own big chunk of two major products
(feature-owning, from spec-writing to implementation), as well
as a part in some researchy-prototype stuff on the side. My
occasional corporate flack). -- khogan
experience hasn't been perfect, but I'm definitely happy and not
bitter (as evidenced by my willingness to come back to Cal as an
occasional corporate flack). -- kahogan
\_ Most large companies won't be like this. Like all rules
(except this rule) there are exceptions. In short, whether
you're applying to anything from IBM to http://Dinky-Startup.Com,
you must investigate during the interview process with your
potential manager/boss what they think you'll be doing on a
daily basis in the short and long term and what they think
short/long term means. For me, short term is 2 weeks. For
people used to a slower pace, short term is two years. You
must question, question, question. Questions won't offend
and will only make you look less like a NCG idiot. Just so
you know where I'm coming from, I hop from startup to
startup just to not be bored at work. I haven't noticed
that large companies pay better than startups, but in
deference to kahogan I'll grant I've nveer applied to his
company. |
| 1999/10/21-22 [Industry/Startup] UID:16744 Activity:nil |
10/21 Startup Jobs Fair 4-6pm this Thursday in Woz Lounge.
20 Startups, $700 of Free Pizza, and you! |
| 1999/10/13-14 [Industry/Startup] UID:16701 Activity:high |
10/13 Let's say that I work at company X, and it offers excellent health
plan for my family. My son is weak and requires a lot of
medical attention, and without company X's health insurance, we
would not survive. Now, if I switch to company Y, how does the
transfer of insurance work?
\_ It doesn't. The insurance from company X expires. YOu need to
use insurance from company Y to pay your son's future medical
expenses.
\_ Learn about COBRA.
\_ COBRA doesn't last forever. This guy needs a stable
corporate job with a suit where no one gets fired and
no one goes out of business.
\_ cobra will be available at X's cost plus a tiny amount for
18 months, in general. |
| 1999/9/30-10/1 [Industry/Startup] UID:16635 Activity:nil |
9/30 I work at a router company in Fremont. I have this urge to steal
toilet paper and whatever company supply I can find. Is this
a particularly unhealthy behavior?
\_ It shows you're unhappy working there and feel like they 'owe' you
something, so you have this need to steal petty items to try to
compensate. Either you're a klepto or more likely just need a new
job. |
| 1999/9/24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16584 Activity:high |
9/23 Hi, I graduated from UCB in '96 and have 3 years work experience.
I was recently offered a position that pays $80K from an established
public company. Is that high or low? Thanks. Please do not troll
my message. This is a serioues inquiry.
\_ I graduated then too, and make a little bit less. Any stock options?
\_ yes it is high or low. it depends. --oj
\_ Nope.
\_ why even bother? Its all a big waste of time.
\_ I graduated after, haveless experience, make slightly more and have
a pile of options. As always, options may or may not have future
value. The cash is real, though.
\_ Could you be a little bit more general? Jeezz. If this is a
position as a accounting clerk in Stockton then your getting a
\_ Possibly. At least I know the difference between
compu-porn dept. Thanks for the thought, though.
good deal, if it's for a CIO position in Santa Clara your getting
ripped.
\_ It's the motd. It's either a sysadmin or coder job.
\_ it's the amount of money your mom pays me every year so that i
fuck her the way your pop can't.
\_ hey, which one of you motherfuckers nuked my response? That
singly responsible individual...FUCK YOU. and to the motherfucker
getting the 80K, 1) don't be such a greedy bitch, there's
plenty of people who don't ever earn half of what you are going
to be making and 2) whether or not you want to actually take
it depends on how much they're going to make you bleed for that
80K.
\_ I did. It was rambling and stupid and near zero content. |
| 1999/9/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:16494 Activity:moderate |
9/9 I'm joining a startup that's going through their 3rd round of VC
funding and there's already about 100 employees. What should I
expect in terms of # of shares? What is common? And also, is it
ok for me to ask how many shares outstanding they have? E.g. if
they have 100 million shares and I get 10K, and the company is
bought out for $400 million, then it's not worth it for me.
\_ # of shares varies a lot. depends on your position (peon vs VP).
depends on whether you're taking a salary cut too. they shouldn't
have any problem telling you # of outstanding shares but guess
about how many shares you think they'll have when they IPO/get
acquired -oj
\_ if you can rack up around $500k then it's worth it.
\_ Yes, as the above asy, you're totally in the right to ask how many
shares are outstanding. I'd rather have 10 shares of 100 than
1 million of 500 billion. Without this knowledge, the # of shares
you're offered is meaningless. It lacks context. As far as what
you should expect, well that not only depends on your title, but
how well you negotiate. Remember, there are absolutely no standards
regarding this stuff. Don't let them give you any BS about standard
average wages or # of shares or anything like that. It's total BS.
You'll get what you negotiate for. Don't work for less than you're
willing to work for. Remember this is still an employees' market.
Stick it to them while you can, bc later after they import a bunch
of foreign fucks, you'll be screwed. Get it while it's good.
\_ Thanks. I know that the later you join the less you get. That's
why I mentioned 3rd round of funding and 100 employees. So there
is no standard for this stuff eh? I should just flat out ask
them, "hey how much is this worth if we get bought out at $X
million dollars?"
\_ Not exactly like that but you need the numbers to do your
own calculations. As an employer, I'd expect you can figure
out how to use a 4 function calculator. The more questions
you ask, the more they're aware you're not going to be
easily taken for a ride. One thing though and this is the
hard part: try not to squeeze them for every last penny.
Give a little at the end if you don't want any bad feelings
for later if there's more stock, raises, or other bonuses
going out. Also, work environment is really important for
many folks. For me, I'd never work at a place with a suit
n tie dress code and that didn't let me come in after lunch.
But that's just me. I highly suggest writing down on paper
with real ink exactly what you want from them and the
minimum you're willing to accept in various combinations.
If they don't hit your minimum mark, hold firm, don't take
it. You'll be miserable if you do. Some simple stand firm
paper/ink negotiating has always gotten me pretty close to
my desires rather than my minimums. Getting other offers
is always a good idea too. Try not to fall into the,
"Well, how much are you looking for?" trap. Ask what
the hiring range is in response but don't be rude. Never,
ever, but never be rude, no matter what. Good luck. (the
ink/paper numbers are for yourself. don't tell them the
figures.)
\_ A startup that is at its 3rd round of VC funding is fucked
and isn't going to go anywhere. Don't rely on your options being
worth anything, ever, so don't worry about it. |
| 1999/8/21-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:16362 Activity:kinda low |
8/21 Does anyone have any pointers to a good resource with information
on:
o relocation packages (what's typical, what isn't)
o acceptable amount of time between being made an offer and actually
accepting it
I'm about to accept a job offer for a place down in El Lay, and
was wondering what would be "typical" for them to cover.
\_ note this is taxable income
o acceptable amount of time between being made an offer and actually
accepting it
I'm about to accept a job offer for a place down in El Lay, and
was wondering what would be "typical" for them to cover.
\_ I was offered $4k to relocate as part of my hiring bonus which I
had to return if I didn't stay 4 years (yeah right). Needless to
say I accepted a different offer. You shouldn't leave them hanging
for more than a week at most unless you've warned them you're still
interviewing elsewhere.
\_ Go to yahoo's career site and you'l find out the "exchange rate"
between SF and LA. If you get paid 50K in LA, then it is roughly
58K in SF. Your 4K relocation does not sound good. I know a MS gal
\_ I wasn't the original poster. -Mr. 4k package
who got 5K bonus plus 4000 shares of options (and the stock went
up $10 only after a year). She left the company in less than a
year, paid back the 4K relocation, and kept the options. Go figure.
\_ Oh, MS = masters, not M$. There's a ~5K difference in pay. |
| 1999/8/13-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:16308 Activity:high |
8/13 Have you sold your Redhat IPO shares yet?
\_ You can use the money to buy ASWX ... there is a company with
actual revenue in the IPOs of this week. Big upside potential
if you aren't a day-trading moron and can hold the stock.
\_ yes, at $89. thanks much.
\_ i always thought that ipo's usually dip down after the first
day surge.
\_ Ebay did the opposite. There are many different patterns.
\_ It's the stock market. There's no science or predictable
factors involved.
\_ You mean my double major in economics means nothing?
\_ It might mean something for running a business but
it means nothing for determining whether a net IPO
is going anywhere and for how long.
\_ That's for your average stupid overinflated piece of drivel.
more. quit whining.
RedHat is better than 90% of most of the "internet IPO" crap
out there. But I expect it will eventually stabilize at
50-60, then gradually climb up to 80 again over the next
6-12 months.
\_ Oh really? What makes RH so special other than fanatic
followers who are mostly cash poor? How much do they
make every quarter and what's their profit margin?
\_ Have you ever seen that Simpsons spoof episode
where Homer starts his own "Internet Company" that
does nothing. Well, that exactly what most
Internet stocks are. Seriously, what the hell
does Halcyonsoft do?
\_ Ask them.
\_ I don't see what could be more clear than their
own proclamation:
Halcyon Software, a leading
developer of Active Server
Framework technology, gives IT
professionals the ability to
deploy Web-based applications
with unrivaled compatibility
across multiple server platforms.
-giggle
\_ You know that has nothing to do with stock price any
more. quit whining. Oh, and Dell is offering Redhat
on their computers, dummy.
\_ If nothing means anything anymore, than again, I ask
what makes RH so damned special? It was stated as a
fact that RH "is better than 90% of most of the
'internet IPO' crap out there". Better in what way?
Just by the mere fact that it went up? Is this a
post-facto determination? Had it gone no where,
you'd be the first saying a RH IPO was stupid?
\_ it was definately a PRE-determination,
seeing as how I had the forsight to buy at $50
\_ Well, that's nice. Now then, what makes RH
fall into the non-crap 10% other than OS
religious fanatacism? Still waiting on
this one. I don't expect a non-fanatic answer
because there isn't one. There is *nothing*
special about RH and it sure as hell isn't
worth $5b as a company. That's ridiculous.
Disgusting as they are, at least MS sells a
lot of it's product for a much higher price
than it costs them to produce it. RH does
no such thing.
\_ They do a lot of front end development
contracted by people like SGI and Dell.
They also do a lot of consulting and tech
support which MS doesn't do no matter
what they tell you. In other words, it's
not just another stupid company putting
up another stupid web page claiming
to be the official portal to the Internet
\_ They have backing from Intel,
IBM, and Dell. Enough said.
\_ that means shit if nobody buys these preloads...
\_ they probably will. otherwise, dell marketing
isn't stupid enough to preload their computers
with something nobody buys. look at sgi, they're
developing now for linux and ditching their
nt line completely because it was "unprofitable"
\_ Dell always gets it right? *ALWAYS*? Why
this assumption that big companies are run
by smart people? And are smart people
*ALWAYS* right? No.
\_Big companies can spend enough
money to make it right.
\_ i'm going to kick myself for not signing up with etrade.
\_ don't. It sucks. It was a serious fluke if you were
on ETrade and didn't get bumped from the Red Hat IPO
list. ETrade sucks. I'm moving to Schwab.
\_ Don't. Etrade sucks less(tm)
I missed the IPO window. I still managed to buy
at 50 (through "regular" trading, with etrade)
["Double your money, double your fun..."]
My trade went through INSTANTLY, and I was
notified of it immediately.
Schwab sucks.
\_ etrade sucks less than schwab. |
| 1999/7/31-8/3 [Industry/Startup] UID:16214 Activity:kinda low |
7/30 I need a job too. http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~aspolito/res3.txt \_ Drop all the pre-graduation crap. Also, "company ran out of money"?! That doesn't make you look like a genius since you joined a dying company. Objective is silly. Just say, "Looking for XXXXXX position at small startup company". \_ Um, what's wrong with pre-graduation achievement? \_ Nothing in particular but it shows lack of experience to put pre-grad stuff on. Unless your academic work was something really stellar, it only highlights lack of industry experience. \_ objectives suck. The company ran out of money is there because I've been asked way to many times "Why are you leaving Spheresoft so soon?" It looks bad that I didn't even last a year. Oh people do join companies that die soon after. It happens. To smart people even. I joined right when they peaked. (They were doing real well, added 4 people (which was a third of the company) and were trying to do sometihng new. They gambled and lost. So did I. Oh and umm, some of that "pre-graduation crap" is pretty important. -aspo \_ Ok, whatever. I'm sure you're perfectly right about all \_ if you need to ask, you don't know \_ yer mom of everything at all times and don't need advice. \_ As someone who has hired many people based on their resumes, for the field aspolito is in, I will say that aspolito is correct. -blojo \_ What field is that? Palm Pilot app coder? \_ yes, let's call "embedded software developers" palm pilot coders. \_ Proof is in the pudding, baby. Why can't he get a job? \_ Because he's in new york. \_ cause I just started looking and I'm already getting offers at places in New York for places that I would like to work at if I don't relocate so if I want to move back to the BA I gotta start looking fast. -aspo \_ Stay in NY. We'll all be happier that way. |
| 1999/7/20-23 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Startup] UID:16172 Activity:nil |
7/20 All you open source hackers out there. Here's a bit of news you
might be interested in. Yet another reason to contribute to GNU.
http://slashdot.org/articles/99/07/20/2129218.shtml
\_ when is the damn IPO.. I dont see mention of it
\_ I believe Aug 6 or 9.
\_ http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990716/p0.html |
| 1999/6/19-21 [Industry/Startup] UID:15986 Activity:nil 55%like:15998 |
6/18 Unix sysadmin job at pre-IPO startup Yodlee in Sunnyvale.
See /csua/pub/jobs/Yodlee -cdaveb |
| 1999/6/15-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:15963 Activity:nil |
6/15 Jr level sysadmin position open at Active Software, Inc.
See /csua/pub/jobs/Activesoftware.
We are a preIPO startup company however we just filed our
intent to go public on June 11th so hurry up and apply. -smurf
\_ At this point your options will be priced close enough
to the offering price that it really isn't the same as
joining a real pre-IPO company. -sameer
\_ I hate when companies reprice after you're hired but before
they get around to issuing out the stock options. I "lost"
about $16/share
\_ You should complain. You got screwed.
\_ I bought Microsoft at market price quite a few years after it
IPO'ed. I'm not an employee and never had options. That didn't
stop me from becoming a millionaire. You don't need to work
your ass off at a startup early on for cheap stock options to
become rich. You just need to buy into a good company and have
the patience to watch it grow over years (or even decades).
\_ Uh huh... you did this with *what* initial cash? You need
cash, patience, and a good set of companies. M$ could just
as easily have tanked and you'd be fucked. And what
happens when the baby boomers start pulling their money in
a few years to pay for their retirements? The stock market
is *not* free money.
\_ Patience? Fuck that! I want to be rich now! |
| 1999/5/19-20 [Consumer/Audio, Industry/Startup] UID:15843 Activity:very high |
5/19 Does anyone else also get charged $4 by some company called
USBI for 800 service on their phone bill? WTF is up with that?
How about the $6 FCC charge for interstate calling?
\_ how about getting billed $7 for that, even when you don't
make interstate calls, and have no longdistance carrier.
\_ No, but I got charged $19.95 by a company called Entertainment
Unlimited. Maybe it was something like that.
\_ You damn sheep. Call up the phone company and complain about it!
They have a procedure to report, and challenge fraudulent
charges like this, but you have to follow them. Its you sheep
that don't do so that allow those companies to get away with it.
\_ Will you get punitive damage?
\_ Sprint slammed me and was ordered by FCC to reimburse
me $200 by FCC although the actual damange was close
to $400! Now they refuse to honor it, what can
I do? Can I sue for punitive damage since it has
cause A LOT of stress on me?
\_ Sprint is allowed to ignore the FCC so you're screwed.
No, dumbshit, keep complaining to the FCC, duh.
\_ FCC takes months to reply, might as well get a lawyer
\_ For $200? So it takes months, so what?
\_ you should see Payback.
\_ so you have -$2000 after legal fees
\_ Try your state's PUC. |
| 1999/5/18-19 [Industry/Startup] UID:15833 Activity:high |
5/17 Has anyone here ever moonlighted in a 2nd job on the weekend? I'm
considering doing that. I like my regular job, but I want to do
something else as a freelance on my free time. What should I look for?
Should I asked to be paid in cash? Or stock options? Any advice is
greatly appreciated. Thanks.
\_ You're saying you have no life outside work, right? And don't
want one?
\_ That should be obvious from the existence of a soda account.
\_ No, it's all about penis size. |
| 1999/5/11-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:15794 Activity:nil |
5/11 Announcing the CSUA Recruiting Network!
Alums: Do you work for a company that's always looking for new people?
Send CSUA member resumes to your recruiters and earn
recruiting bonuses! (And if you decide to donate some of it
back to the CSUA, we won't complain.)
New grads: Very few people are hired for just sending a resume to HR.
Instead give it to alums who can put it on the inside track and
who can help you find out what positions are available.
\_ Okay, where are the resumes located? We are looking for QA, UI
engineers -- szs
New grads: Very few people are hired for just sending a resume to HR.
Instead give it to alums who can put it on the inside track and
who can help you find out what positions are available. |
| 1999/5/2-5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Startup] UID:15729 Activity:nil |
5/1 -- * -- F R E E -- * -- F O O D -- * --
Tuesday the 4th will be a day free-food-lovers will long remember.
From 11am - 2pm, CSUA CS BBQ. Come rub elbows with your professors!
From 4pm - 6pm, CSUA Startup Jobs Fair. Over 20 Startups will be
fighting for tablespace in the Woz Lounge. There can be only one.
-- * -- F R E E -- * -- F O O D -- * -- |
| 1999/4/27-5/1 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:15699 Activity:nil |
4/19 Know of a growing startup that would like to recruit at Cal, but
can't afford to pay the ILP $1000-$7500? Tell them to join the CSUA
Startup Jobs Fair. More info: <DEAD>www.csua/startup.html<DEAD> |
| 1999/3/22-24 [Industry/Startup] UID:15630 Activity:high |
3/22 Job description posted in /csua/pub/jobs/Amazon.com --tsang
\_ just be sure to ask randal why he left, despite high
monetary reward soon to come.
\_ so why did randal leave?
\_ at least this job is in a different department, with
different scheduling dynamics. but, yes, getting the
\_ tsang must be another millionaire on paper. :-)
\_ Incidentally, go to http://Amazon.com and check out the price of
Bill Gates' latest book: List: $729, Our Price: $504. heh.
"lowdown" does seem like a good idea. --tsang
\_ I don't know exactly what tsang has heard about
"scheduling dynamics", but I basically left Amazon
because my manager thought they could control my life,
and when I looked at switching departments I saw the exact
same thing happening everywhere else in the company.
(Note that when I asked these questions before I signed
the answers I got turned out to pretty much be lies)
There are plenty of people who are willing to give up
their life in exchange for AMZN stock options, I wasn't
one of them. If you are, Amazon can be an exciting
and rewarding place to work. If your priorities don't
all line up on a balance sheet then the most prevelant
comment I've heard (from all sorts of people with all
sorts of experience) is, "Amazon treats their employees
worse than any other high tech company out there."
Feel free to mail me if you have any more questions.
-randal
\_ will i get 10,000 shares of AMZN at strike price of $1
per share?
\_ if the stock price is $1/share the day you join, and
they decide to grant you 10k shares...
\_ What does it mean by "Intelligence can be substituted"? Does it
mean if I am dumb, I can substitute that with hardworking?
\_ No. Consider the semicolon... --tsang |
| 1999/3/8-9 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:15563 Activity:very high |
3/8 Soda stock tip of the week: CMGI. It's red hot baby! Up 47 1/2
today. Get in because this is the next EBAY!
\_ get in now and your sure to lose your shirt, todays Internet stock
rally was good news for the whole sector, but these specific
stocks have seen their high for the immediate future. Beware the hype!
\_ Yes. Get in now that it's up 30%. Makes sense.
\_ Yet, another overvalued stock.
\_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of options waiting to sell.
\_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of CMGI options waiting to
sell.
\_ CMGI closed at 199, EBAY closed at 171, why would you go out on a limb
and speculate that CMGI will be the next EBAY when it's already
worth more? |
| 1999/2/9-10 [Industry/Startup] UID:15384 Activity:very high |
2/9 Hey, I got offered a position at a large consulting company
as a manager. They want to pay 120k. Is that good? How
much do other managers at the big 5 make? I graduated
from Cal in '96.
\_ i graduated from cal in '97 and i am already being paid 120k.
\_ Damn, I think I need to be looking for a new job...
\_ I dropped out from cal. The startup I was in was bought.
I'm a millionaire.
\_ furthermore, I have more money, so I am a better person
and a happier person. Money is everything.
\_ Well, I have wheelbarrows full of money and a
*HUGE* penis. Chicks dig me. So there.
\_ Ah, so you're an even better person. Congrats.
\_ You have a huge penis in a wheelbarrow? you're
some sicko.
\_ I have 5 sheets of acid.
\_ I graduated from cal in '93 and I am still only making 80K. :-(
\_ It's okay. This guy is going to hate his job and/or company
really quickly. I hope it's not Arthur Andersen... --dim
\_ Dammit, I'm running behind. need that yearly eval now...
\_ 120k? 80k? 1M? Uh, time for me to look for a new job!
\_ Congratulations! That's an exceptional offer for *any* recent
college grad -- so congrats whether or not you to decide to
take it. --chris
\_ Managers make that much in the Big5. Do you really want to make the
transition from individual contributorship to management? It's
a tough ride (get some training), and being a manager isn't all
that fun, either. You have to take it from both ends, and keep
your sanity all at once. And...your glory is not really your
own...but something you receive vicariously through your staff. |
| 1999/1/29-31 [Industry/Startup] UID:15324 Activity:nil |
1/29 Golden Shackle-- the belief that if you stay long enough in the
company, you will be wealthy. Don't let this corporate myth control
your life. The book "Do What You Love, and the Money Will Follow" is
now available at Borders, B&N, Amazon, and other major books stores.
It is an excellent book. Get it now.
\_Happiness is for losers.
\_ money is happiness
\_ What if you really like your job as well as your company? -John
\_ Then the advice doesn't apply to you. Enjoy your life,
for you probably will more so than people constantly
scheming for a slight leg up.
\_ What if the Golden Shackle belief happens to be true? How much
money can make up for a period of unhappiness? |
| 1999/1/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Industry/Startup] UID:15234 Activity:nil |
1/13 Company to offer free long-distance phone calls:
http://www.hotcoco.com/eveningstories/rob18910.htm |
| 1999/1/9 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:15199 Activity:insanely high 69%like:15188 |
1/7 Today at a company meeting, I overheard a handsome Aryan
stud engineer saying to his manager in whisper
"That putzhead is very cute," not knowing I could hear him.
The problem is, I'm also attracted to him, and
I see him T & Th's every morning on a weekly basis. HELP!
What should I say to him next week, to break the ice? -
\_ YOU GUYS ARE SO NOT ORIGINAL. "take him to a movie"? "Buy
him some coffee"? "Cubicle talk"? Sheesh! You're just going
to end up looking like all the othim guys. Make him feel
special. Tell him that recently you've been thinking a lot
about him when you masturbate.
\_ just fuck him at the next meeting.
\_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to have
him. Nice guys finish last and rightfully so. Worm boy!
\_ Ask him out to lunch. Or, be a man, just to him cubicle and
chat with him. (Cubicle chatting is very common in corporate
office environment. Probably one of the easiest ways to get
to know your co-workers (or break the ice).) I do envy your
environment. In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old women.
environment. In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old faggies.
environment. In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old faggy.
\_ I know the feeling. I work at a huge company, and everyone
is at least 30 years old, married, repulsive, or some combo
of the above. Then I visited my friend at a small startup.
Every guy there was at least above ok-looking, with some
true stud.
\_ Oh, hello aaron.
\_ yeah right. i'd be making his pancakes by now, not
asking for help on the soda motd. --aaron
\_ aaron, if i say you're cute, will you make me pancakes?
Step 2: Ask him if she'd like to go to a movie with you.
\_ Ask him if she's into Japanese bondage and show him your ropes.
\_ Step 0: Get some guts.
Step 1: Introduce yourself.
Step 2: Ask him if he'd like to go to a movie with you.
meetings with this woman to be a problem.
\_ Ask him if he's into Japanese bondage and show him your ropes.
expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this lady
\_ Your "problem" is that you see mutual attraction and frequent
meetings with this faggy to be a problem.
\_ that's what you get when you call the motd.public
expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this faggy
out to coffee and make it clear that it is
a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
\_ Bozo, he's obviously too shy and clueless to do so.
will get you one insulted lady.. I would try english,
\_ say "Anta wa hosoi uguiso da. boku no ie [de] utanasai ?"
\_ wow, such grace and eloquence, for a common street dog.
"eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... " and eventually she'll
eithis run away or start talking to you. If she starts
\_ yoroshiku.
Mmm, if she's Chinese, just repeat a bunch of strings of
"jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...." If she's Korean, try something like,
"shikuro!", grab his and take his down to the
\_ Using that politeness level; including Anata (sp)
will get you one insulted faggy. I would try english,
\_ A girl saying that she thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
honesty, sincerity and a single rose if you feel
daring; you can make it red ..
is that the poster can't think of anything to do othis than
\_ Just go up to him real shy-like, ruffing your hair with your hand
while looking at the ground before your toes, and say -
\_ No it doesn't. Esp. if she's native Asian, you hear that
"eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... " and eventually he'll
either run away or start talking to you. If he starts
talking to you, then cut to the chase with, "ja, yaroo!"
\_ Why don't you email his if you're that shy? The trick is to find
a way to include his in your social circle at work, whethis that be
Mmm, if he's baptist, just repeat a bunch of strings of
you like to send jokes out, maybe include his on the mailing list?
\_ Yeah, include his on your joke mailing list so that she can
"jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...." If he's catholic, try
"shikuro!", grab him and take him down to the
virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
ground. -mtbb
\_ How do you know she knew you didn't know his language? Perhaps she
\ dont forget the lobotomy
she could pretend she didn't know you understood, because
you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact she's
been giving you othis signals, yet she doesn't feel it's
appropriate for his to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
\_ A guy saying that he thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
\_ tell his you are gay. Problem solved.
imply attraction.
\_ This certainly _does_ imply attraction. I think the problem
is that the poster can't think of anything to do other than
whine on the MOTD. My first impression was that it's a troll,
but everyone's taking it so seriously...
\_ No it doesn't. Esp. if he's Germanic, you hear that
kind of stuff a lot.
\_ I envy you!!! :-( -- yuen
\_ show up to your next meeting naked with a can of crisco.
\_ Why don't you email him if you're that shy? The trick is to find
a way to include him in your social circle at work, whether that be
through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation. If
you like to send jokes out, maybe include him on the mailing list?
\_ Yeah, include him on your joke mailing list so that he can
include _you_ on _his_ list of "idiots who mail useless stuff
to me". Don't forget those warnings about the Good Times
virus and bulletins on how he can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
you're at it.
\_ How do you know he knew you didn't know his language? Perhaps he
purposefully said it in a language you understand, but that
he could pretend he didn't know you understood, because
you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact he's
been giving you other signals, yet he doesn't feel it's
appropriate for him to approach you? Meaning: go ask if he'd
like to get dinner and a movie sometime, duh.
\_ tell him you are gay. Problem solved.
\_ Three's Company, all over again!
\_ okay, dude, when you snap out of your little fantasy, post to
the motd again and ask "how do i stop deluding myself into
thinking that people find me attractive? it's really ruining my
score." -ali
\ leave a dozen roses on his desk... go for the gusto.. |
| 1999/1/8-10 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup] UID:15188 Activity:insanely high 69%like:15199 |
1/7 Today at a company meeting, I overheard an attractive asian
female engineer say to her manager in another language
"That young man is very cute," not knowing I knew her
language. The problem is, I'm also attracted to her, and
I see her T & Th's every morning on a weekly basis. HELP!
What should I say to her next week, to break the ice? - 2pac#1fan
\_ YOU GUYS ARE SO NOT ORIGINAL. "take her to a movie"? "Buy
\_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to
have
her some coffee"? "Cubicle talk"? Sheesh! You're just going
to end up looking like all the other guys. Make her feel
special. Tell her that recently you've been thinking a lot
about her when you masturbate.
\_ the last girl I told that to filed a restraining order
against me.
\_ Clearly, you're such a pansy coward that you don't deserve to have
her. Nice guys finish last and rightfully so. Worm boy!
\_ Ask her out to lunch. Or, be a man, just to her cubicle and
\_ This
chat with her. (Cubicle chatting is very common in corporate
office environment. Probably one of the easiest ways to get
to know your co-workers (or break the ice).) I do envy your
environment. In my company, all I see are 40-60 year old women.
\_ I know the feeling. I work at a huge company, and everyone
is at least 30 years old, married, repulsive, or some combo
of the above. Then I visited my friend at a small startup.
Every girl there was at least above ok-looking, with some
truly pretty women.
\_ Oh, hello aaron.
\_ yeah right. i'd be making her pancakes by now, not
asking for help on the soda motd. --aaron
a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
\_ aaron, if i say you're cute, will you make me pancakes?
\_ Step 0: Get some guts.
a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting.
-luv_geek
Step 1: Introduce yourself.
Step 2: Ask her if she'd like to go to a movie with you.
\_ Ask her if she's into Japanese bondage and show her your ropes.
\_ Your "problem" is that you see mutual attraction and frequent
whine on the MOTD. My first impression was that it's a troll,
meetings with this woman to be a problem.
\_ that's what you get when you call the motd.public
expecting Dr. Laura. But just ask this lady
out to coffee and make it clear that it is
whine on the MOTD. My first impression was that it's a
\_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy? The trick is to find
a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that be
through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation. If
you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing list?
troll,
a social meeting rather than a busineess meeting. -luv_geek
\_ Bozo, he's obviously too shy and clueless to do so.
virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
\_ say "Anta wa hosoi uguiso da. boku no ie [de] utanasai ?"
\_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps she
\_ wow, such grace and eloquence, for a common street dog.
\_ yoroshiku.
\_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy? The trick is to
find
appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that
be
through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation.
If
you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing
list?
\_ Just go up to her real shy-like, ruffing your hair with your hand
while looking at the ground before your toes, and say -
"eeeto desune.... ano... jitsu wa... " and eventually she'll
virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!,
while
either run away or start talking to you. If she starts
\_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps
she
talking to you, then cut to the chase with, "ja, yaroo!"
Mmm, if she's Chinese, just repeat a bunch of strings of
"jiba-jiba-jiba-jiba...." If she's Korean, try something like,
"shikuro!", grab her and take her down to the ground. -mtbb
appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if
she'd
\_ A girl saying that she thinks someone is cute doesn't necessary
imply attraction.
\_ This certainly _does_ imply attraction. I think the problem
is that the poster can't think of anything to do other than
whine on the MOTD. My first impression was that it's a troll,
but everyone's taking it so seriously...
\_ No it doesn't. Esp. if she's native Asian, you hear that
kind of stuff a lot.
\_ I envy you!!! :-( -- yuen
\_ show up to your next meeting naked with a can of crisco.
\_ Why don't you email her if you're that shy? The trick is to find
a way to include her in your social circle at work, whether that be
through email or through casual "water cooloer" conversation. If
you like to send jokes out, maybe include her on the mailing list?
\_ Yeah, include her on your joke mailing list so that she can
include _you_ on _her_ list of "idiots who mail useless stuff
to me". Don't forget those warnings about the Good Times
virus and bulletins on how she can MAKE MONEY FAST!!!1!, while
you're at it.
\_ How do you know she knew you didn't know her language? Perhaps she
purposefully said it in a language you understand, but that
she could pretend she didn't know you understood, because
you're too shy and won't approach despite the fact she's
been giving you other signals, yet she doesn't feel it's
appropriate for her to approach you? Meaning: go ask if she'd
like to get dinner and a movie sometime, duh.
\_ tell her you are gay. Problem solved.
\_ Three's Company, all over again!
\_ okay, dude, when you snap out of your little fantasy, post to
the motd again and ask "how do i stop deluding myself into
thinking that people find me attractive? it's really ruining my
score." -ali |
| 1998/12/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:15150 Activity:nil |
12/28 Is there no end?
10:00 AM Microsoft has acquired FASA Interactive, developers of
MechCommander and the forthcoming MechWarrior IV, according to
sources at the company. Several key members of the company have
confirmed the deal, and are already making plans to move closer
to the Redmond, Washington software giant.
\_ Indented for clueless newbie.
\_ Thanks, but frankly, I knew and just didn't give a damn.
-apathetic to your hobgoblinish little needs
\_ I like Saturday Night Live's Microsoft skit on Micrsoft aquires
Christmas and will rename the holiday to either Micromas or
Christmasoft.
\_ first you forgot to indent, second, why is this news
we should care about
\_ I didn't. I cut'n'pasted it. Who appointed you the Miss
Manners of the Motd? Secondly, if there was a minimal interest
criteria for motd posts, then we should disable this entirely
since all of it is crap by your "standards". |
| 1998/12/2-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:15058 Activity:high |
12/2 It's December, and my co-op is going to end soon. I am suppose to
return my badge to the company, but I would like to keep it. Is it
overly unethical to tell your company, during your very last day,
that you lost your badge?
\_ Well, maybe this is flame bait, but don't be such a stooge.
Corporations will treat you in "unethical" ways many many
times throught your "professional" life, probabably in ways
you are either unaware of or too brainwashed to see. So take the
silly badge, if you want it, and lie to them. Who cares.
thing back. it all depends on how stiff and republican your
\_ i don't see why it would be unethical since they deactivate your
\_ HOw do TEKTRONIX color printers compare to HP and XEROX. Would
you recommend them? What do you think of solid ink technology?
\_ Tek color printers are supposed to be bad ass. Most of them
use thermal wax/thermal dye technology as opposed to laser
which gives you fairly decent photographic quality. Fiery
also makes good printers (what Kinkos uses). Expect to
only decent mug shot of myself that i have. Actually, they
never asked for it back.
spend a fortune though. They're no bubble/ink/laser jets.
\_ Fiery is PrintServer/RIP bundled with Xerox's,
IBM's printers. EFI doesn't make printers.
badge anyway. the question is if you can get away with it.
i interned at tektronix and my boss told me that the company was
really paraoid about people keeping their badges when they left.
apparently, they harrass you and stuff until you give the damn
thing back. it all depends on how stiff and conservative your
company is.
\_ lots of other co-op students pull the same stunt.
\_ So at least he'll have lots of company while he's spending
eternity writhing in the flames of hell . . . thieving
bastard!!!!!
\_ nark
\_ if yer manager/admin-person says "It's very, *very* important
that we control all the badges..." then you return it.
\_ i still have my sybase badge from several years ago. it's the
only decent mug shot of me that i have.
\_ Tell them you lost it now. They might have to retake the
picture, etc., and you can turn that one back in on your last day.
\_ I suggest you simply grow up and return the fucking badge.
\_ nark
\_ yeah, after the first half dozen, you don't put sentimental
value on a piece of plastic.
\_ If its intel, they don't care, I just kept mine.
\_ after i left sun i was really depressed that i didn't think to
connive to keep my badge. just do it.
\_ work at a company that doesn't use badges :P |
| 1998/11/6-8 [Finance, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14919 Activity:nil |
11/5 So my friend works @ LinkExchange. Does that mean he's rich now that
M$ bought them for $250M?
\_ If he's the owner of LinkExhange then he's rich
if he's just a worker, unless his boss's willing to give him a raise
he won't be rich. He may even lose his job if M$ decide not to use
the old employees...
\_ If he's the VP there, then he might be rich. If he's a janitor
there, probably not.
\_ my boss (who's the Presid. of that other banner exchange co.)
tells me LE was venture capital funded, so owners will probably
get ~ 40% of that $. It was the venture capitalists who were
probably pushing hard for the sale. Remember... the target is
30 times your initial investment in 5 years if you're a venture
capitalist. -jctwu |
| 1998/10/25-26 [Industry/Startup] UID:14825 Activity:nil |
10/25 Please update ~dbushong/bin/infocal to reflect spring '99 or at
least allow for a command line option to specify the semester.
\_ Why don't you write to dbushong about this? -- infocal #12 fan
\_ or why don't you read the usage to see what the command line
option (which is already there) is. |
| 1998/9/25-26 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14672 Activity:high |
9/25 salaried vs. contracting, which is better?
\_ monthly wage vs. hourly wage. lots of benefits vs. minimal
benefits. Same scene vs. constant change of scene. Of course,
many other factors.
\_ how about if i want to maximize cash income?
\_ Salary, with up to 20% into 401k (if you're talking
about maximizing over long-haul)
\_ depends on the contracting company and how much they skim off
(50-70% at Taos for instance) vs how many benefits they give
(Taos is generous there by comparison to some)
\_ 'give' is the wrong word for taos -- they 'offer' and you have
to remember to go and take it. Otherwise you get nothing...
\_ I get 90K on salary or 150K on contract. Which is better?
\_ Salary. They're paying health, various taxes, etc that
you're sposed to pay both halves of on contract.
\_ Nope. Taxes are identical if you are W-2.
\_ Contract is less stable. If the company or economy is not
doing well, contractors are the first ones out.
\_ Not always. Schwab laid off 60 IS employees in '95, 0
contractors lost their jobs.
\_ that's cause the HR people at Schwab are absolute
MORONS. Them, and whaterver IS bigwig is linked to them.
(I've had a good look at the inside of Schwab. Not
a happy place)
\_ Salary, there's potential to be rich with stock options
(if company is good).
\_ Name one person you know personally who has hit it
rich with stock.
\_ *@inktomi.com
\_ Most of my co-workers made hundreds of thousand in stock
options from the 1995-1996 stock waves.
\_ Real cash or just theory money? |
| 1998/9/1-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:14534 Activity:moderate |
9/1 I am looking for a webmaster for my company. You can read the
job description at http://www.siebel.com/recruiting/webmaster.html
Great pay and generous option grants. Email me if you are interested.
Thanks. - shsieh
\_ But would you really want to work there?
\_ Do they want to know my gpa?
\_ will they force me to take drug tests?
\_ YOU mean like Emmanuel Lewis?
\_ I always did get him confused with the "Whatchu talkin'bout
Willis" guy.
\_ Gary Colman?
\_ There's one at /csua/bin/webster. :-)
\_ I have a 7th Collegiate on my shelf. That do? |
| 1998/8/26-27 [Industry/Startup] UID:14514 Activity:nil 50%like:14602 |
8/25 We need new people at my company. Check out /csua/pub/jobs/NumericalTech
-- daviddeb
\_ Perhaps you could make it readable?
\_ It's a security clearance required company. You'll be
able to read it if you need to know, which you don't. |
| 1998/6/11-13 [Industry/Startup] UID:14206 Activity:kinda low |
6/11 Anyone know roughly the ratio of success vs. failure of startup
computer companies within the past 5 years or so?
\_ I attended a seminar which said: 60% total failure, 5-8%
made it (IPO), 1% did exceptionally well, and the rest is
just hanging dead (not profitable, not losing either) -kchang
\_ Collarary question: of those that fail completely, what's the
average life span?
\_ time to reach IPO is 5-7 years from the "founding day"
on average. Past that, it has no VC appeal.
\- Sorry if this sounds silly: what is IPO?
\_ Initial Punch Offering
\_ Initial Public Offering
\_ Wow, someone is still immune to the influence of the financial
markets! Quick, someone do something! |
| 1998/6/10-12 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:14191 Activity:high |
6/9 I need some information on starting salaries for new cs grads in
Silicon Valley. Anyone willing to post some numbers in the motd?
Also if anyone knows a reliable source for this information please
let me know. Thanks. -emin
\_ 45K-75K for fresh out of college.
\_ what kind of idiot's pay this much for new grads?
\_ the kind that cant hire anymore furriners
\_Foreigners are REALLY cheap and hard working. They're also
pretty smart. Get them while you can. -Foreigner fetish
\_ Perhaps it's a Green Card issue. --jon
\_ and put up with more management bs...
\_ Depends on what kind of work you're interested in, and what
kinds of skills you have. $45K-$75K is about correct if you
have a college degree. It can go lower if you don't have a college
degree or if you have very little skills.
\_ not terribly true. With less than two years of college, I was
already able to take about $50k with decent benies. granted, i
was a contracted sysadmin, but hey, it's cash.
\_ i think a decent job with a decent company will start at around
45K-50K. the ones that pay more IMO sucked...i.e. you're working
for a crappy company (like tandem), you're doing crap work (like
writing freaking printer drivers), etc...but for pretty cool C++,
java, CORBA type work that's cutting edge at a big company or a
small but very promising company...you generally get around 45K-50K
plus some stock options. that's the route that i would take.
\_ Person with MS (phd candidate) from Berkeley got 70K at my company.
Person with BS from Berkeley got 60K although he's REALLY good.
My company is big. 30,000 employees. I bet smaller companies pay
even better.
\_ How much can you expect your salary to rise in the first several
years, provided you're doing a good to excellent job.
\_ 13%, 32%, 44%, 15%.
\_ I got a $10K raise from $55K to $65K after my first year
because my company thought I did an incredible job. I think
\_ so how much are you making now d00d??3?
this kind of thing is most likely at start-ups where they
need really good engineers and the company is small enough
for people with power to realize when engineers are worth the $.
-wedge
\_ (real value) I got an 8% raise after first year in large
company (>10000)
company (>60,000 employees).
\_ 8% raise, plus another 6% "increase to match the market"
because the company realized it was paying too little ^_^
\_ I got a 1% raise after my first year!!!!! And they upgraded my
free candy from Tootsie Rolls to Hershey's Kisses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-foreigner
\_ Well, someone go and bug the career center to reveal what's the median
salary range for CS & EE and post it here please!! It was $45K a year
for Bachelor a year and half ago when I asked .
\_ Funny you mentioned this. When they gave me the survey, I wrote
down "$10,000/year PLUS A LOT OF STOCK OPTIONS!!!" I asked all of
my friends to do the same. I wonder if they really averaged
all the numbers :) In short, it's probably better to have an
industry filled with people who have real passion for
technological wonders than people who are overly money
hungry or obsessed with making over $XYZk a year -kchang
\_ i'm sure it hasn't changed that much since then
\_ They probably saw the "$10,000/year" part and filed your
survey in the "Ethnic Studies Major" folder without bothering
to look any further. That's why responses like yours don't
skew the healthy EECS numbers.
\_ 2 years ago when i graduated, i started out at 35K (june 96). at
the end of the year, i also got a 7K bonus so it came out to 42K.
in june 97, my raise after one year brought me up from 35K base
to 50K base. with bonus my salary ended up at around 55K (salary
restructured to give lower bonsuses). then 6 months later in
jan 98, i got another raise and brought me up to 60K base +
around a 10K bonus for this year. i also cashed in on my
stock options as the small company was acquired. got around
20K. this month, i got another raise...our raises are every six
months now and my new salary is 70K base + 15K/year salary +
more options in the new larger company that acquired us (they are
public and IPO). |
| 1998/5/28 [Industry/Startup] UID:14149 Activity:moderate |
5/26 New grads looking for jobs with a great startup checkout
/csua/pub/jobs/OPC_Tech. Check it out even if you are not
a new grad, but would like to work in great company with lucrative
stock options and all the beef jerky, chips, drinks,
granola bars, power bars, etc. you can eat.
\_ why oh why do all these geek companies offer all the
(supply some junk food here) you can eat? And why do
geeks care about this?
\_ Because it makes the company sound hip and k00l and non-
corporate even if its just a lame ploy for the corporate
people running it just to tweak geeks onto the payroll
for less cash because "we're hip! we give beef jerky!"
\_ Actually, the company supplies food and drinks because
most people are at work a large part of the day and enjoy
having free snacks on their breaks. Obviously nobody would
choose a company because of free snacks, but why would anyone
complain about them? - emin
\_ the complaint is that free snacks are put forth as some
sort of useful benefit, on par with stock options, above.
"we may or may not have a health plan, but you can get
free chips!" -tom
\_ Gimme a higher salary. I'll buy my own.
\_ Try Siebel Systems at http://www.siebel.com we do not supply any junk
food besides free drinks..
\_ Ah ha!
\_ According to Chronicle, Siebel was the fastest growing
company for the past 3 yrs in the bay area. They kick
ass.
\_ Intel charges everything from coffee, candy bar, all the way to
your employee badge necklace (the blue one with Intel on it).
ALL the food, except water, is charged to make sure that old
engineers don't get fat and die of heart attack.
\_ "Old" means over 35 right?
\_ That's so the shareholders get maximum profit. So shut up
and get the f_ck back to your pathetic compressed cage.
Engineers are worthless scum, if we fed them, they wouldn't
work as hard. |
| 1998/2/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:13731 Activity:high |
2/23 Class action suits are the best thing in the world. When I sent in
Iomega for a $50 rebate by sending in an original receipt, original
UPC label, and the application, I got a mail back saying that I did
not enclose the UPC label nor the original receipt. I was perplexed.
Then after a year, they sent me a mail saying "Class action suit--
a whole bunch of people didn't get what they were supposed to, and
if you were one of them, sign here, and we'll try to resolve this case"
Class action suits are good.
\_ Iomega is cheap, they thought they could get away... H AH AHA
\_ Do not sign anything without consulting your lawyers
\_ Say what? It's a $50 rebate on a $99 device. How much is
the consultation going to cost? Don't be stupid.
\_ May Iomega burn in hell. Iomega management made $11 million
in January by exercising their options and subsequently, the stock
tanked when management finally revealed bad news.
\_ That's against insider trading policy, isn't it? -- yuen
\_ Not really. It's very difficult to prove especially
on something like earnings data which can be interpreted
in different ways (e.g. a company showing record profits
might see its stock fall if earnings were not as high
as "analysts' forecasts"). Management would get in
trouble though if they purchased shares of stock knowing
that the company was going to be taken over next week and
that the buyer's price/share was higher than what
they were paying for it. --wft |
| 1998/2/14 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:13673 Activity:insanely high |
2/13 JUNK ABOUT NT ERASED.
You guys just don't get the big picture, and never will. Of course
people in the academic community know why Microsoft products are
inferior, but try to educate and tell the truth to the rest of the
population. They will never learn, and will never care how/why/why
not to use Microsoft. They will forever be using Microsoft products
because it "looks easy" and is cheap. The ultimate bottom line is,
yes, Microsoft sucks, but they will keep leveraging, buying, sueing,
threaten, whatever until they have everyone else using their
products. That is the destiny, and nothing can stop it. Not Sun,
not Netscape, not IBM. Not even the government or DOJ. Just accept
the fact, just accept the truth, just accept the future. As Sun Tsui
says, the war is won even before it has begun.
\_ What's that you say? Hopeless? -- Why, very well! --
But a man does not fight merely to win!
No -- no -- better to know one fights in vain! ...
No! I fight on! I fight on! I fight on!
-- Edmond Rostand, _Cyrano de Bergerac_
I am trying my personal best and volunteer substantial time to
educate others about Unix, and while I can breathe well enough
to utter criticisms of Windows for the benefit of just one more
student, I don't want to hear any of this about "destiny".
We make our _own_ destiny. -- schoen
\_ yeah, we already know why M$ sucks, so stop your bandwidth, say
somethin' intelligent and somethin we don't already know, and most
importantly, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT DAMNIT
\_ Uhm... ya. Whatever. Obviously, you're young and ignorant of the
way the world works. No one stays on top forever. No one.
\_ yeah, we already know why M$ sucks, so say somethin' intelligent
and somethin we don't already know. Most importantly,
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT DAMNIT
\_ Microsoft's biggest opponent is Microsoft itself. People are
tiring of their crappy products and support. People are opposed
to the idea of a huge corporate monolith making decisions for
them. Eventually, that will catch up to the company. It happens
to most large corporations. It becomes difficult to respond to
the desires of the consumer when a company reaches a certain
size and Microsoft, too, shall pass no matter what becomes of
its current competitors, although it may evolve into an
entirely different sort of company (shift focus). --dim
\_ No duh, they're moving to content providing business.
MSNBC, MSN, M Start, Web TV, publishing, newspaper,
propaganda, oh, just simple stuff that brain wash people.
\_ You mean they're failing to move to content providing.
Content is free. Let 'em have it. Can't support a
zillion dollar company and their stock gains on content.
They don't own content, nor can they possibly own all
the way to acquire it. 'dim' was correct when stating
that MS will just get too damned big.
\_ Sure you can create content. Check out
http://www.tomorrowneverdies.com |
| 1998/1/28 [Industry/Startup] UID:13583 Activity:high 57%like:13593 |
1/28 What's the best long-distance company? Price? Ethics (yeah right)
What's the best ISP? Price? Speed? Ethics? Service?
\_ i recommend Working Assets for long-distance. price is fine,
and they do have ethics. they donate money to non-profits of
your (the customers) choice. --lila
\_ Funny that you asked. Ever since the deregulation of telecomm
with voices of "freedom to choose your company", all the
corporations start to dick everyone around by changing rates
every month, offering cool deal then charging a buckload later,
talk "MUD" about other companies, etc. It ends up that the real
l00zers in this deregulation business are not the big bad AT&T,
but the consumers who are so confused that they'll never have
any clue on best rates. |
| 1997/2/26 [Industry/Startup] UID:32084 Activity:nil |
2/26 Anyone have any experience w/profit sharing issues in software
development contracts? I'm looking into becoming a project manager/
senior developer at a no-name tiny software company, and I'd prefer
not getting screwed if the product actually makes any money. Any
sample software contracts available online? Does anyone have a
clue re: "reasonable" percentages of sales/profits I should be
pushing for? Stock options are ok, but they're a *looong* way
away from an IPO (though at least my project would have VC
funding). Replies via email are fine; I'll summarize any
useful info I receive. Danke. -anirvan
\- there are no generic answers. you need to figure out how much
you are worth. then you figure out how to trade risk and return,
money now/money later etc. --psb |
| 1996/11/16 [Computer/Domains, Industry/Startup] UID:32008 Activity:nil |
11/14 All these litigations over .com domain names can be easily
circumvented by allowing only registered/trademarked names
to qualify for .com and then either create a separate TLD,
say, .prv, or overloading .org, for those that aren't
qualified. -- cmlee
\_ FALSE. Multiple companies can trademark the same name in
different industries. For instance, Anheuser-Busch
lost a lawsuit trying to keep florists from using the
name "Bud Lite" because the court ruled it wasn't in
competition with the beer. Also, what country do you
make the authoritative trademark decision maker for the
world? Many .com domains are outside the US, and different
countries have different trademark laws. For many more
reasons this is a bad idea, see http://www.patents.com
-alanc-
\_ I hopped over and guess what I found in weblaw.sht?
"Among other things, it is wise to obtain a trademark
registration for the domain name immediately if one
has not already done so."
I am simply suggesting making it a requirement for
.com TLD. Sure companies are gonna sue each other,
as they've done for ages. But let them do it in the
court of trademark law (internationally if necessary).
Then for individuals place them in separate TLD or overload
say .org so they don't get sued by the big boys. -- cmlee
\_ so I've got to file for a trademark if I want a .com
address for my web authoring business?
\_ If you want a .com address you should be at least a
registered company, which means most potential (not
all) name conflicts would have been checked out
by the time you finally receive your license.
If you just want a .prv address then you get it
on first-come-first-serve basis. -- cmlee
\_ hardly. There are thousands of companies across
america whose names conflict with other companies,
but they don't care because they aren't in the
same market.
\_ yer just stating the obvious. i am talking
about on the web. if there's any conflict
over domain names, it'll be resolved by
those company lawyers, who has to worry
trademark laws. and i'll bet a dollar most
will settle by arbitration instead of in
the court.
\_ So I guess hh is in trouble now for snagging all those
proprietary domain names to sell back to companies. :)
-John
\_ it sounds like there is a fundamental misunderstanding
in that companies don't just trademark their
company names - they also trademark product names,
service names, combo product-service package names,
as well as ad slogans... so if I want to pick a
domain name, I have to avoid all those possible
trademarks, on an international level? I don't
think so. Also, trademarks run out after a number
of years if you don't use it. - mas
\_ Only in US -muchandr
\_ The sad reality is that if you DON'T get a trademark
on your domain name, you risk losing it. Thats why
NSI recommends trademarking it, not because you're
required to trademark the domain name. NSI's policy
is to just suspend the domain and let the courts
decide. Meanwhile the domain is basically dead. -ERic |
| 1996/9/25 [Industry/Startup] UID:31893 Activity:nil |
9/25 If you have stock options at a company (i.e., the ability to purchase
x shares at x price), do you lose them when you quit the company? Or
do you still have the option to purchase whenever you want to? How
long *are* they valid? --tabloyd
\_ ONE SHARE! ONE SHARE!
/_ haahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahh!
\_I'm asking because my company wants me to sign something saying that
"none of my ...stock options will have vested...therefore I will lose
all rights to stock options." But I've been here a year and a half,
so I'd think any stock options (which they said we have but never
gave us any info about) would have at least *partially* vested... --t
\_ youd think that. Unfortunately you are assuming you work for
nice fair people, and not predatory capatalists :-) :-( They
don't give a fuck about you, and they just dangle "stock options"
in front of your face so that
1) you will think you are some kind of player and not a corporate
stooge (gee -- i have stock options, just like the corporate
big shots I hear about on TV!) :)
2) you will work very very very very hard for them.
I don't mean you in particular of course -- it happens all the time.
There was probably some fine print in something you signed along
time ago which describes what rights (if any) you have... I wouldn't
sign anything tho; that implies you have the upper hand :) :)
\_ It's fairly standard practice to not let you vest until after
some period of time. After 5 years, all of my options will be
vested, but after 1 year, one fifth of them will be vested;
every month thereafter, I get so much more vested. I
have to wait a minimum of a year to get any of them vested.
Once they are vested, I can exercise what I have vested (ie, buy).
The buying price is typically some nice value below market price,
so that you can make a happy profit minux nasty, complicated taxes.
So, as far as I know, vested options are not valid outside of
the company, but once you exercised them you will have real
stock. -cliffwd |
| 1996/9/15 [Industry/Startup] UID:31889 Activity:nil |
9/13 TUPAC RIP
\_Good riddance.
\_ What's this crap? 2Pac was no saint, but he was a fine
musician who made millions of people happy. Can you claim
that? I think not. --elizp
\_ A fine musician? he was a lousy fucking pop rap singer.
Millions of people happy? what, was he the fuck-bunny
when he was in the slammer?
\_ actually he was fairly decent for a rap singer..
most all my friends who listn to rap wud say so too.
not quite my style (not into heavy gangsta rap) tho.
so unless you listen to rap alot quit talkn outa yer
ass.. -shac
\_ fix your grammer, or FACE THE ONSLAUGHT - danh
\_ tupac also sucked for not having a big
fake nose in digital underground - psb
\_ Too bad he's dead. Now you can't talk about how
much gangsta rap sucks ass. "fine musician" ha ha.
-John |
| 5/20 |