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2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    

2013/4/17-5/18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54658 Activity:nil
4/17    Questions about recruiting below.  Thanks.

        1. Why are different positions called full-time, contracting, and
        intern, with "full-time" meaning regular permanent positions?
        Contracting and intern positions are usually 40 hours/week which would
        imply they are full-time (i.e. not part-time) also.

        2. What's the difference between temp, contracting, and consulting
        positions?

        3. What's the difference between intern and co-op?
        \_ by UCB's definition: intern is usually 3 months during summer.
           UCB's co-op program is 6 months. I know some schools define
           co-op as intern, and some schools just call them by names
           like MIT's 6A program (internship for computer science).
        \_ It's about job longevity and tax treatment. Interns are hired
           on a short term basis, for training or to prove their worth to be
           made full time. Temps are employed by a temp agency, who sends the
           employee a W-2 (usually). The employer pays the temp agency a higher
           hourly rate to bring them on temporarily. Contractors and consultants
           are generally self employed, who get a 1099 from the employer and
           must pay their own taxes, health care, and employer half of Social
           Security. Consultants may also be like temps as described above,
           but professionals with experience who command, say, 1.5 - 2 X what
           a full-time employee would make to get their expertise quickly
           without the overhead of putting on payroll.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    

2013/3/13-4/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54624 Activity:nil
3/13    Worker's paradise: "a workplace free of VCs, MBAs, sales, marketing,
        biz dev, endless meetings;"
        http://sfbay.craigslist.org/about/craigslist_is_hiring
        \_ I love management and PMs, the more the better.
           \_ In my company the ratio of product managers to developers is
              about 1 to 5.  I heard that at Microsoft it's about 1 to 1.
              \_ what company do you work at, and why are PMs so
                 often despised?
2013/2/6-3/19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54599 Activity:nil
2/6     http://preview.tinyurl.com/b5878hj
        "Job Satisfaction Soars Among IT Workers, Outpacing All Other
        Industries"
        Sure glad I spent all that time in soda instead of the classroom.
        \_ In case you haven't noticed, nerds are the new sexy jocks!
        \_ http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_22524360/silicon-valley-job-growth-prodigious-returned-dot-com-boom-levels
           Oh no, the Latinos and blacks aren't in on the boom!
2012/12/8-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54551 Activity:nil
12/8    http://s3.amazonaws.com/engine-advocacy/TechReport_LoRes.pdf
        According to this report, 28.8% of the jobs in the
        Sunnyvale-San Jose-Santa Clara area are considered IT. Is this
        bullshit or what? What about all the restaurants, cleaning,
        retail, and a shitload of other non-IT jobs in the area?
        Just walk around Santa Clara, a bunch of people there are
        NOT in the IT business. I call this report bullshit.
        \_ This must be the first time anybody ever made up bullshit
           in a report before.
        \_ 1. It says 28.8% in High-Tech, not IT.
           \_ This must be the first time anybody ever made up bullshit
              *about* a report before.
              1. The report says 28.8% in High-Tech, not IT.
              2. Read "Appendix 1: Defining High-Tech".
              --- !OP
              \_ still bullshit
                 \_ I am pretty sure their methodology means that everyone
                    who works for Google, Apple and Intel count as High-
                    Tech workers. So probably not bullshit.
                    \_ right, there are tons of non-tech workers (contractors)
                       at these companies. There are tons of amigos in the
                       San Jose area that are NOT exactly coding, they
                       shouldn't be counted as tech workers.
                       \_ It depends what you're trying to measure.  If your
                          question is "how much impact do tech companies have
                          on the economy", then Google janitors totally count
                          (and McDonald's sysadmins don't).
                          \_ Agreed.  That's exactly what this report intends
                             to assess -- all workers in high-tech industries,
                             not high-tech workers in all industries.  --- !OP
                          \_ my last response to you: this report is really
                             written with Silicon Valley bias that makes
                             Silicon Valley look favorable so that people
                             who don't know any better think it is 29%
                             tech workers with avg pay of 170K, which I
                             will say for the last time-- BULLSHIT.
                                -not anywhere near 170K and the majority
                                 of my non-coworkers are NOT high tech
                                 \_ Are you a coder or sysadmin? Are you
                                    working in Silicon Valley? Do you have
                                    at least 7 years of experience? If you
                                    can say yes to all three, you should be
                                    making pretty close to $170k. How much
                                    do you make? Then again you seem to
                                    believe that 29% is a majority, so you
                                    are probably paid what you are worth.
                                    \_ URL of a trustworthy salary survey site
                                       showing avg $170k/yr for coder or sysadm
                                       with 7yrs of experience please?
                                       \_ http://tinyurl.com/ckoqaep
                                          "San Jose had far and away the richest
                                           annual average wage, at $144,828..."
                                         Let me follow up and say that I think that
                                         it is really more like $150k, not $170k
                                         and that is total compensation, not just
                                         salary.
                                         Let me follow up and say that I think
                                         tha it is really more like $150k, not
                                         $170k and that is total compensation,
                                         not just salary.
                                         \_ Would that average have been skewed
                                            by the hugh compensations for the
                                            C-level execs in the Bay Area?
                                            \_ No, I don't think so. Managers are
                                               in a different BLS category. I am
                                               pretty sure the primary source is
                                               the BLS.
                                            \_ No, I don't think so. Managers
                                               are in a different BLS category.
                                               I am pretty sure the primary
                                               source is the BLS.
                             \_ Stop whining just because you failed Reading
                                Comprehension.
2012/6/2-7/20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54408 Activity:nil
6/2     What are some words that engineers use to describe
        non-technical people?
        \_ Layman.
        \_ Managers.
        \_ MySpace executives
        \_ People from LA:
           http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=2448341831
        \_ Republicans
        \_ Clueless
2012/4/4-6/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54355 Activity:nil
4/3     Counter offer: don't do it!!!
    http://news.yahoo.com/why-shouldnt-counteroffer-133221049.html
2011/12/29-2012/2/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54276 Activity:nil
12/29   Looking for an IT job?  Stephen Hawking is hiring.
        http://www.hawking.org.uk/index.php/component/content/article/96
2011/12/15-2012/2/6 [Reference/RealEstate, Industry/Jobs] UID:54260 Activity:nil
12/15   Does anyone have experience investing in apartment buildings
        I'm not really looking to invest, but I want an apartment
        to live in, and I'm not happy with the leases I'm encountering
        for instance one requires 2 years of tax returns with the
        application. I'm in a position to buy a building, but I've
        got no experience with this, and I don't want to learn that
        it was a bad by losing a lot of money. --jwm.
        \_ I bought a two unit building and live in the top. It has
           worked out pretty well for me. Email me if you want more
           info. -ausman
        \_ jsl and I run a small 4-unit, and have for a while.  Property
           management can be a lot of work. You could hire property
           managers to do it for you but it cuts into income. -mehlhaff
2011/11/20-12/6 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Jobs] UID:54236 Activity:nil
11/20   http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2436
        Very true. Compared to the high school jocks who used
        to be popular, my salary gets better and better
        and my wife is younger/prettier.          -nerd
        \_ Same for me on the salary front, but as a nerd how did you manage to
           get a younger/prettier wife than the jocks?  -- nerd #2
           \_ You have to wait until you get rich to get married. -nerd #3
              \_ Oh!  I didn't wait.  Sh*t!  -- nerd #2
                 \_ You could always get an upgrade. Might not be so easy
                    if you have kids. -nerd #3
2011/10/3-12/6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54186 Activity:nil
10/3    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
        Does The PSB still read the motd? This reminds me of the racheting
        effect you talk about (for the skilled here). -ausman
        \_ 80% of participants had evaluated themselves as being above the average driver
        \_ this effect is common in mega corporations
        \- ausman: i dont really check in here any more ... at some point
           the repeated self-inflected wounds dropped the wall-mass below
           some critical threshold for me.
           but on your topic, did you see this long EMORRIS article from
           the NYT a while back:
           http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1
           \_ Yeah, I am not talking about the inability to see ones own
              shortcomings, rather the other side of the coin, the inability to
              recognize ones own unusual competence.
              shortcomings, rather the other side of the coin, the tendency
              to discount ones own unusual competence, eg things are either
              "hard" (if you don't understand) or "trivial" (once you do).
2011/6/2-7/30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54124 Activity:nil
6/2     Dear sysadm, what is your experience with packaging systems
        (chef, puppet, etc)? What are you recommendations?
        \_ Those are system management systems.  packaging systems would be
           things like rpm and pkg.
2011/5/20-7/13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54116 Activity:nil
5/20    "Lifeguards' high pay riles Calif. beach city"
        http://www.csua.org/u/tds (news.yahoo.com)
        $200K/yr for sitting above the beach and staring at chicks most of the
        time?  They aren't risking their lives as much as cops and firefighters
        do, and the don't serve a deterring purpose like cops do.
        \_ First, it's $100k in pay _and_ benefits, some of which may include
           a hefty life insurance policy and a superb health insurance policy.
           Next, it's $200k in two instances. Finally, I'm with you, sounds
           a bit high; what's the base salary, and why are they getting OT?
           I think this piece lacks substance sufficient for outrage.
        \_ it's a sinecure for the beautiful people.  We are paying them to
           be a role model for kids
        \_ The actual life guards are mostly paid by the hour, these are
           sort of the life guard managers. But it still seems like a lot
           of money to me.
2011/4/29-7/30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54100 Activity:nil
4/29    I just quit my $150k/yr a job, wish me luck! -PAM
        \_ plans?
           \_ Probably going to go live a nice chill life.
              \_ 150k/year in the Bay Area isn't very little.
                 \_ yawn bay area yawn, Horatio.
           \_ Get another job at some point, hopefully one less hellish.
        \_ Update: got two offers on the table one from Google another
           different job from the same employer, both for about the
           same salary. Going to say no to Google (I can't believe I
           am doing this btw, but the current job sounds like a lot
           less work). The job market in Silicon Valley is really quite hot.
           \_ Yer mom was hot the other night.  Least that's what the guy
              in line ahead of me said.
           \_ zomg!Q i can't believe it either!
2011/4/13-7/13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Rants, Industry/Jobs] UID:54082 Activity:nil
4/13    "Best-Paying College Major: Engineering"
        http://www.csua.org/u/t07 (finance.yahoo.com)
        Avg. starting salary for Computer Science grads: $63017
        Avg. starting salary for Computer Engineering grads: $60112
        Why is there a difference?
        \_ It's Y!.  WTF do you think they're gonna say?
           Christ it's like asking Fox News for Fair and Balanced repts.
        \_ where's the "Avg # hours worked every week" part of that survey?
           65k/80hrs/week isn't so "Best Paying"
           \_ ssssh.  Don't tell the interns that.  Gotta keep up the worker
              supply!
2011/2/21-4/20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:54045 Activity:nil
2/21    Public sector works are paid less than private sector workers with
        similar levels of education and experience:
        http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wage-war-state-employees-everbody/story?id=12964194
        Warning, contains video with sound.
        \_ Which is irrelevant.  Public sector workers are paid by private
           sector workers.  Given the # of public workers, it's unsustainable.
           \_ Nah, if anything Americans are undertaxed compared to other
              advanced economies.
        \_ I <3 how the sodans I know who are in public sector have had stable
           jobs for what going on _two_decades_ while the priv sector ones have
           had rollercoasters of job hopping and ulcers.
           \_ ah yes I can see how all these depressed employees at Googleplex
              hate their careers, benefits and 20% hobbies. They should go to
              the big government so that they can feel happy doing outdated
              "jobs" from 9-5 and talk down on private sectors.
              \_ I didn't know we were talking about grad school.
           \_ Do you include the ones who are multi-millionaires and retired?
              \_ Nope, since the multi millionaires/retired at 30 people i know
                 are all super depressed and spend their time hopped up on
                 psych meds, oh and yeah they were all priv sector.  I'm
                 including tho all the people i know with well balanced lives
                 with good familial relationships, and chill lifestyles.
                 \_ but i WAAAAAAANT to carry my blackberry into the toilet
                    on vacation!!! i NEEEEEEED it!!!!
2010/9/13-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53955 Activity:low
9/13    Tech industry is back! I've never gotten so many recruiter calls
        since the dot-com. Good times man.
        http://www.mercurynews.com/real-estate-news/ci_15744365
        \_ lies, damned lies, statistics, willie brown speaking, and motd
           "personal anecdotes"
        \_ "Silicon Valley tech stocks plunge along with the Nasdaq and Dow."
        \_ What the heck is in Akron, Ohio?!
        \_ I am being recruited by Facebook, Google and LinkedIn. It is like
           \_ No really, what the hell is in Akron, OH?
        \_ I am being recruited by Facebook, Google, LinkedIn. It is like
           1999 all over again.
           \_ Raytheon, Boeing, and Lockheed called me the other day, they
              also liked that I spoke mandarin. Wooo!
        \_ My little brother is a VMWare administrator. He just got an offer
           for $150K/year at a Fortune 500, which seems pretty good for what
           he does. Just two years ago he was making half that at Microsoft.
           \_ Crap, I am only making $200k/yr and I have 15 year experience.
              I am going to go ask for a raise.
              \_ Is that all?  My little sister is making $350K/yr in
                 industry and my son is starting a job at $500K/yr plus
                 bonuses.
                 \_ Im at 1.2 mil, 7 figure club, baybee!!
                    \_ my total compensation at HP was $34mil. I slept with
                       a hottie, left HP and now making even more $$$ working
                       with my buddy Larry!                     -Mark Hurd
                 \_ I really do make $200k/yr, including stock. It is not
                    that terribly uncommon.
                    \_ You made $200k in one year?  Or you made $200k every
                       year?
                       \_ One year in the dotcom era, I made $350k but that
                          was by selling a bunch of pre-ipo options on
                          overinflated stock. I make $200k every year now
                          and only about $15k of that is in stock. I just
                          offered $150k/yr to a SA-type guy with 12 years of
                          experience and only an AA but he declined and
                          experience and only an AA degree but he declined and
                          decided to take an offer with Netflix making
                          $170k/yr. You should get a glassdoor account if
                          don't already have one.
                          don't already have one. Know any solid Unix
                          Sysadmin types who want to work in a big Silicon
                          Valley tech firm (not Google)?
                    \_ I really do make $500k/yr including also the occational
                       perk like an intern blowjob and an all expense paid
                       vacation.
                       \_ Are you an executive?
                    \_ Larry Parker got me 2.1 Million.
        \_ Buy now or be priced out forever.
           \_ Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
2010/8/30-9/30 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:53943 Activity:nil
8/30    Engine Yard hiring in greater-Chicago area:
        http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tch/1927473851.html
2010/8/23-9/7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53935 Activity:high
8/23    Job opportunity at the US District Court, Northern District of CA:
        Courtroom Technology Specialist
        http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/tch/1914895472.html
        --erikred
        \_ $54k/yr! Damn those overpaid civil servants!
           \_ it's really about 70k-80k yr if you factor in things like
              planned vacations, ease of work, no doctors bills for ulcers,
              9-6 work day, 5 day work week.
              \_ Plus no layoff.
                 \_ you're kidding, right?
                    \_ Layoffs in public sector have been much lower than private.
                       In private you get fired, not furloughed.
                    \_ Layoffs in public sector have been much lower than
                       private. In private you get fired, not furloughed.
                       \_ really? what if you're an unionized pilot/stew/maint
                          \_ What if you're not? I agree with the guy above.
                             Lots of people should be terminated and should
                             be glad they were furloughed instead.
                       \_ Bullshit
                          \_ Want to post some facts to back that up?
                             \_ you're the one who made the claim.
                                \_ http://blogs.sacbee.com/the_state_worker/100817%20Job%20loss%20chart.JPG
                                   http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/BS_SCH6.pdf
                                   Also, being laid off from the State
                                   requires 120 days notice and layoffs
                                   are determined by seniority and not value.
           \_ Salary looks about right for the requirements. I know someone
                                   \_ So the State, which employs 300k out of
                                      20M, has had 40k layoffs, this is 13%. The
                                      public sector has had 1.2M out of 20M,
                                      this is about 6%. Thanks for the data.
                                      \_ You are misreading the data.
                                         The 40K layoffs is for State
                                         and local workers both. There
                                         are about 1.8M government
                                         workers when you add in the State
                                         workers in the second chart.
                                         (Source: http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/09locca.txt
                                         The second chart shows that there are
                                         30K more State workers than in 2006
                                         and only 10K less than the maximum.
                                         Do your math again and get back
                                         to me.
                                         \_ Looks like 4% and 6% then, still not
                                            "much lower."
                                            \_ I think you will want to
                                               recheck your math. 40K/1.8M
                                               is not 4%.
           \_ Salary looks about righe for the requirements. I know someone
              with a very similar job who makes about $50K. Difference
              being she's not a civil servant with all of the benefits
              attached.
              \_ So of course, the free market is the best way to set
                 compensation.  Because of the magic of the invisible hand,
                 the most competent people are necessarily in the
                 highest-paying jobs.  Unless they're civil servants, in
                 which case they're obviously incompetent, overcompensated
                 pariahs sucking taxpayers dry.  Right.  -tom
                 \_ Says Tom, who will rake in $100K/year (in today's
                    dollars) with free health care for the rest of his life at
                    around age 60. So you think this Bell city manager deserved
                    to make $800K/year and retire on $600K/year? He was
                    overcompensated and did suck the taxpayers dry. I am
                    dollars) with free health care for the rest of his life
                    at around age 60. So you think this Bell city manager
                    deserved to make $800K/year and retire on $600K/year? He
                    was overcompensated and did suck the taxpayers dry. I am
                    not sure if he was incompetent, but I do know that if
                    the position was advertised at that salary he probably
                    wouldn't have gotten the job despite his UCB undergrad
                    degree. You can make the same argument for the CEO of any
                    large company (incompetent and overpaid) _except_ it is not
                    at the taxpayer expense.

                    degree. You can make the same argument for the CEO of
                    any large company (incompetent and overpaid) _except_ it
                    is not at the taxpayer expense.
                    Check out the salaries for employees of the City of LA:
                    http://controller.lacity.org/ssLINK/LACITYP_011307
                    A "Senior clerk typist" makes $56K, a "Refuse
                    collector truck operator" makes $64K, a "Maintenance
                    Laborer" makes $49K, a "Motor Sweeper Operator" makes
                    $70K. These people do not pay for Social Security or health
                    http://controller.lacity.org/ssLINK/LACITYP_011307 A
                    "Senior clerk typist" makes $56K, a "Refuse collector
                    truck operator" makes $64K, a "Maintenance Laborer"
                    makes $49K, a "Motor Sweeper Operator" makes $70K. These
                    people do not pay for Social Security or health
                    insurance out of these salaries and many of them take
                    home more money than listed because of perks like
                    overtime. Now, granted, some positions are underpaid -
                    like many of the accountants. However, the average pay for
                    a secretary (senior clerk typist) in LA is only $48K and I
                    am guessing that her job is more stressful, less secure,
                    and receives fewer benefits. To wit:

                    like many of the accountants. However, the average pay
                    for a secretary (senior clerk typist) in LA is only $48K
                    and I am guessing that her job is more stressful, less
                    secure, and receives fewer benefits. To wit:
                    Disney's job posting for a secretary asks for:
                    "Ability and willingness to work long hours as needed."
                    "Ability to be proactive, resourceful, flexible and to
                    manage a heavy workload."
                    "Ability to maintain professionalism under pressure."
                    Pay: $40-60K with an average of $52K

                    Warner Bros wants:
                    "Detail oriented with the ability to work well and
                    maintain professionalism under pressure."
                    "Must be able to work at a face pace with accuracy."
                    "Must be able to work under constant deadlines."
                    Pay: Not listed, but probably about the same

                    Somehow I am seeing a trend here. Being that my girlfriend
                    works in entertainment, she will attest that they will
                    work you to death if possible. A government secretary
                    (which my sister was for years before going to get her RN)
                    does whatever work she can and goes home at 5pm.
                    Sometimes there wasn't enough to do (because she was so
                    efficient and because they are overstaffed) that her boss
                    sent her home early. It's one reason she started going
                    to nursing school while still working full-time: she was
                    able to get her work done even though she worked only
                    three days per week. So I wouldn't say that all
                    government employees are incompetent, but they certainly
                    set the staffing levels as if they are and yet I've asked
                    LA (in writing) to fix a mistake on my property tax bill
                    for 3 years in a row now and when I call I am told:
                    "Can you call back later? I'm busy right now." WTF?
                    Take down my number and call me back when you have time.
                    So, yeah, getting the job done isn't a priority for
                    some people.

                    Tom will ask: So why doesn't everyone get a government job
                    if they are so great? Well, because there is very
                    Somehow I am seeing a trend here. Being that my
                    girlfriend works in entertainment, she will attest that
                    they will work you to death if possible. A government
                    secretary (which my sister was for years before going to
                    get her RN) does whatever work she can and goes home at
                    5pm.  Sometimes there wasn't enough to do (because she
                    was so efficient and because they are overstaffed) that
                    her boss sent her home early. It's one reason she
                    started going to nursing school while still working
                    full-time: she was able to get her work done even though
                    she worked only three days per week. So I wouldn't say
                    that all government employees are incompetent, but they
                    certainly set the staffing levels as if they are and yet
                    I've asked LA (in writing) to fix a mistake on my
                    property tax bill for 3 years in a row now and when I
                    call I am told: "Can you call back later? I'm busy right
                    now." WTF?  Take down my number and call me back when
                    you have time.  So, yeah, getting the job done isn't a
                    priority for some people.
                    Tom will ask: So why doesn't everyone get a government
                    job if they are so great? Well, because there is very
                    little turnover and once people land a job they stay
                    there for decades. I also believe that most people don't
                    really realize what kind of salaries can be made
                    working for the government. They think it's like it
                    used to be where everyone pulls down $45K. I can tell
                    you my sister and I were both shocked when she asked to
                    get into my company when we had an opening for a senior
                    secretary and the salary advertised was a _LOT_ less than
                    she made for the government (like more than 20% less). I
                    was like "You make _HOW MUCH_?" and she was like "They pay
                    _THAT LITTLE_? I'll stay put."
                    really realize what kind of salaries can be made working
                    for the government. They think it's like it used to be
                    where everyone pulls down $45K. I can tell you my sister
                    and I were both shocked when she asked to get into my
                    company when we had an opening for a senior secretary
                    and the salary advertised was a _LOT_ less than she made
                    for the government (like more than 20% less). I was like
                    "You make _HOW MUCH_?" and she was like "They pay _THAT
                    LITTLE_? I'll stay put. In other 10 years I'll have free
                    health care for life." She's 4 years away now (she can
                    retire at 50) and then she'll collect her "retirement"
                    while she goes to work full-time as an RN. By then
                    she'll be making probably $200K/year between the two
                    salaries and getting free health care on the taxpayer's
                    dime, too. Then she can retire on her $5K/month
                    government retirement plus she'll have paid into Social
                    Security and collect that, too. Sweet! Am I jealous?
                    Hell yes! Do not anger me, I am dim! Would I have done
                    that had I known people could take advantage of the
                    system by double dipping?  Maybe so!  I think the system
                    is broken when a person can be a secretary for 25 years
                    at average salary (or above), switch careers to the
                    private sector, and then collect two retirements from
                    the government plus free health care on top of whatever
                    they manage to save.
                    \_ 1/10 for content, 0/10 for length.
                    \_ Working at the UC and taking N contracting jobs is
                       very standard.
                    \_ I am a Director at a Silicon Valley company and I make
                       about 2X what someone in a comparable job makes at the
                       UC. My wife had a similar experience with HUD and Citi.
                       As I said before, low skill jobs are higher paying in
                       the public sector and high skill and management jobs
                       pay better in the private sector. It is pretty obvious
                       why this is, if you would pull your head out of your ass.
                       It would pretty embarassing if a school janitor had to
                       draw food stamps to make ends meet. Secretaries do not
                       retire at 25 years, you are full of crap.
                       \_ You are correct that high-level management jobs pay
                          more in the private sector. I think a military
                          general is an example of an underpaid government job.
                          President Obama is another. However, most government
                          employees would not be high-level managers in
                          the private sector. Most government employees are
                          paper pushers who are overpaid. The fact that
                          there are a few underpaid positions doesn't change
                          that fact. Anyone can retire as long as they are
                          age 50 and have 10 years of service although
                          there are ways to retire earlier and some plans
                          make you wait until age 60. Why should a janitor
                          with the government make more than a janitor in the
                          private sector?
                          \_ It is not true that anyone can retire from
                             Federal service at age 50 with 10 years of
                             service, where did you get this idea? I checked
                             what my wife would make if she worked for HUD
                             for 25 years and got promoted to the top of her
                             pay and one grade up (GS-14). It would have been
                             $32k/yr at age 62, which was 25% of what her salary
                             would be at the time. So 25% of your base salary is
                             overpaid? Janitors in the private sector are
                             underpaid but since we use the free market to
                             set labor values there, that is just the way it
                             is. Everyone working for the government should
                             be paid a living wage, imho.
                             \_ I am not quoting federal retirement. I am
                                not sure what that is. I am talking about
                                State and local government.
                                "The state's current pension system allows
                                firefighters, Highway Patrol officers, and
                                peace officers to retire as young as 50
                                years old and earn 3% of their final
                                salaries for every year worked.  Other
                                state safety employees may retire at age
                                55 with a 2.5% multiplier and
                                miscellaneous employees may retire at age
                                55 with a 2% multiplier or at age 63 with
                                a 2.5% multiplier."
                                (Source: http://tinyurl.com/2db96kp
                                You can also "buy" years. Other tricks
                                here: http://tinyurl.com/2ahy8vh
                                Reform is required. I don't get 401k
                                matches based on my highest 3 earning years.
                                Pensions should not be calculated in that
                                manner either.
                                Janitors in the private sector are not
                                "underpaid." They are paid market wages.
                                Public sector janitors are overpaid. The
                                government should not pay more than the
                                private sector. Otherwise, my tax dollars
                                are wasted. Contract it out. This isn't a
                                welfare state.
                                \_ Janitor salaries in the private sector are
                                   artifically depressed by use of
                                   undocumented workers.  You can't do that
                                   in the public sector.
                                   \_ Contract it out.
                                      \_ It's no more appropriate for
                                         public entities to be using
                                         undocumented workers through a
                                         contractor than it is for them
                                         to be paying them directly.
                                         \_ I didn't say to use undocumented
                                            workers. I said contract it
                                            out and pay market rate
                                            instead of the inflated
                                            salaries we pay now.
                                            \_ As I said, "market rate" is
                                               artificially depressed by the
                                               use of undocumented workers.
                                               \_ Let's assume this is true.
                                                  Surely you are not implying
                                                  that all janitors are
                                                  undocumented.
                                                  \_ no, I'm stating that
                                                     the market for janitors
                                                     is not free, and thus
                                                     "market rate" is
                                                     meaningless.
                                                     \_ It's not meaningless
                                                        if you want to hire a
                                                        janitor.
                                   \_ "This isn't a welfare state." We
                                      disagree, that it all. You think that
                                      "the market" determines all value and
                                      I do not. Should we abolish child
                                      labor laws, too?
                                \_ Safety employees are not "anyone," get
                                   your facts straight.
                                   \_ Safety employees have it better, but
                                      it is still possible for anyone to
                                      retire at age 50 if they buy some
                                      airtime, especially if they buy it
                                      early in their careers. It's not
                                      too hard to do once you go out
                                      and get another job after "retiring."
                                      \_ I don't want a 55 year old cop trying
                                         to wrestle bad guys to the ground, I
                                         fine with them getting a good
                                         retirement at 55 or even 50 after
                                         25 years of service. If you think
                                         being a cop is so great, you should
                                         go be one, I am sure they would
                                         take you. Hardly anyone is willing
                                         to do the job, even with the so-called
                                         overinflated salaries and benefits
                                         you complain about.
        \_ the thing about this that I don't like is gov employees who are
           utterly convinced that their benefits aren't a part of their salary
           and "industry makes more money" just based on pure | paycheck |.
           \_ I'm a govt. employee, and I'm well-aware that my benefits are
              part of my salary. It's why my salary is lower than market. I'm
              willing to make the trade-off for the security, and I don't
              grumble about it. Mind you, I'm also not going to ever become
              a startup millionaire, so there you go.
              \_ 1988: "Mama, I'm gonna move to hollywood and become a star!1!"
              \_ I wonder if in 20 years they'll have reality tv shows about
                 people moving to silivalley and bringing their software
                 concepts to the world.  "If i could dream dot com."
                 \_ You know, if the TLC and Bravo can make shows about
                 \_ You know, if TLC and Bravo can make shows about
                    those idiots flipping houses in Hollywood, I don't see
                    why a reality show about 70 hour weeks at a Start-up
                    wouldn't fly. It's not like there's not enough drama
                    among geeks.
                    \_ There would have to be the 6 month 120 episode
                       prequel series to explain all the in jokes.
                       \_ Aren't they common culture now?
                          \_ No, but nerds think so because they are so
                             insular and closed-cultured.
                       \_ Would the movie "Office Space" do the trick?
                          \_ So, you want to do a "The Real Office Space?"
                             something that is apart from ... The Office
                             and Office Space and 9 to 5; just saying the
                             jokes people will get are pretty common and all
                             boil down to dilbert strips.  Funny for a couple
                             of hours maybe; (office space is still a cult
                             movie). but not for 2 seasons+.
        \_ re: univ perks, one of the nice perks is that you can
           actually take classes as an employee.  Think about the monetary
           compensation for that, how much is it per unit  post degree to
           take a class at 1. as UC and 2. The Top UC?  That example just
           came to me, I'm sure there are other perks like that.
                Oh right another: free gym membership is another have you
           seen how much a monthly gym costs?  Granted it's not 24 hour
           fitness, but still....
                Yes I know it still costs for univ employees but there is
           a discount.
           \_ Courses are still very expensive for staff.  RSF is
              $420/year for staff, that's not a discount for what you're
              getting.
              \_ I would pay much more to get the chance to check out
                 hot teenage undergrads in spandex tights.
           \_ A big perk often not mentioned is a car allowance. A lot of
             government employees get them: up to $550/month or more.
             There are others which are not counted as "salary" including
             housing allowance and other subsidies. Some of these can be
             very significant (up to 50% of total pay.)
             \_ And all of those are also available to private sector
                employees.  If you think government jobs are so great, go
                get one.  Oh, forgot, you're too incompetent.
                \_ My Company Benefits are BIGGER than yours!
                \_ I think we take from this that not all priv sector jobs
                   are the same  vs the uniformity of the .gov benefits.
                   \_ Yeah I'm really enjoying my car and housing allowance.
                      Oh, wait.
                \_ I would have gotten one if I had known what a scam was
                   being perpetuated. I was living in the past. I didn't
                   realize what "New Government" was all about! No point
                   is getting one now, though, b/c the public is going to
                   end your gravy train soon enough. Public labor is very
                   scared and upset by the prospects of this eventuality
                   now that the taxpayers have caught on. You should be!
                   "The deal used to be that civil servants were paid less
                   than private sector workers in exchange for an
                   understanding that they had job security for life.
                   But we politicians, pushed by our friends in labor,
                   gradually expanded pay and benefits to private-sector
                   levels while keeping the job protections and layering
                   on incredibly generous retirement packages that pay
                   ex-workers almost as much as current workers."
                   --Willie Brown
                   \_ how do you know when Willie Brown is lying?  His lips are
                      moving.
                      \_ You're going to say this about anyone who disagrees
                         with you. Better from a SF liberal Democrat with a
                         history of supporting labor than a Republican you will
                         dismiss out of hand. At some point you need to
                         get your head out of the sand.
                         \_ No, I'm going to say that about Willie Brown, who
                            has been well-known as a self-satisfied, self-
                            promoting scumbag for a long time.  Also, elitist;
                            he declared that "all those clerks pushing papers
                            and pencils" couldn't move into his beautiful
                            new City Hall.  And he had his limo driver take
                            him 3 blocks from CIty Hall for a photo op on
                            Bike to Work Day.
                    \_ I think that this is true for City of SF jobs, but not
                       true in general.
        \_ priv sector people who hate pub sector jobs so much go fix it
           CA Voter initiative the pub jobs away. Ha ha.
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