| WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ | |
 http://csua.com/feed/ | |
| ||||||
| 11/22 |
| 2010/8/17-9/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:53926 Activity:nil |
8/17 Private sector growing, public sector shrinking:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/If-Private-Sector-Is-Hiring-cnbc-4039402657.html?x=0
\_ starve the beast!
\_ why do they never count the armed forces as employment |
| 2010/8/7-25 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53911 Activity:moderate |
8/6 Slide acquired by Google:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/google-and-slide-building-more-social.html
-dans
\_ Are you going to retire now? -ausman
\_ No. I'm not quite there yet. But home ownership looks tempting.
-dans
\_ Financially how much better was the exit vs. the amount you could
have gotten working as a sysadmin in ucb?
\_ I'm pretty sure UCB sysadmins don't have exits. What's a
typical UCB sysadmin make? -dans
\_ http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=holub&agency=&salarylevel=
\_ That's just mean. -dans
\_ not as mean as the things tom said to other people
in the past 2 decades or so.
\_ Call that a job perk. The opportunity to bitch out
people on the motd. +1 for UC Sysadmin job. -dans
\_ Probably overpaid given all the other benefits.
\_ I thought government workers were all overpaid. I just
looked up a CSUAer who works for the UC and he is making
about 2/3 what I would expect to pay for someone of his
skill and experince in the private sector. What gives?
\_ Offer him a job at the higher rate then. See if he
takes it.
\_ You are making the mistake of thinking all salary
and wages come in the form of cash.
\_ I am not sure if he would take the job or not.
It's a curious experiment. I think the one
making the mistake is the "2/3 salary" guy.
If the CSUAer could make 50% more in industry
then why isn't he? Could it be because he's
in a pretty cushy spot relative to industry?
\_ Sorry; clarification, i agree with you,
i don't agree with "all compensation is only
determined by the absolute value of my
paycheck" guy. He is assuming many things;
the least of which is that everyone has
identical values. I can give many instances
where people would opt for a lower "pay" but
more secure job: single parents (is only one
example).
\_ Maybe he lives in East Bay and doesn't want
to commute to Silicon Valley. Two extra
hours a day of free time is worth a lot
of money.
\_ I have a resume that came across my desk last
week which is a Berkeley sysadmin (not this guy).
I will probably give him a call. His stated
reason for his job search "The UC is not a good
place to work for right now." I notice most
employees haven't had a raise in four years. |
| 2010/5/17-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53834 Activity:nil |
5/13 "In a Job Market Realignment, Some Left Behind" - Yahoo! Finance:
http://www.csua.org/u/qr5
'.Sometimes I think I.d be better off in jail,. she says, only half
joking. .I.d have three meals a day and structure in my life. I.d be
able to go to school. I.d have more opportunities if I were an inmate
than I do here trying to be a contributing member of society..'
Why is the govt treating criminals better than law-abiding citizens?
\_ Is this some kind of bizarre troll? This woman just got $17k of
job training paid for by the government and also gets food stamps
and you are complaining that we should give her more? She even has
a steady, albeit low-paying job. If jail was really so great, she
would already be there.
\_ A $17K student *loan* and food stamps? Are you seriously
suggesting that's excessive compensation for someone with 30
years of work experience? -tom
\_ You are right, we should just throw her in jail instead. |
| 2010/2/26-3/30 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Industry/Jobs] UID:53727 Activity:nil |
2/26 http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/painful-truth-about-age-discrimination-in-tech-209?page=0%2c0 There are bold programmers, but no old programmers \_ This is true, mot ppl i knokw who are older seem to want to "get out of programming." They have kids, they want to do other things. \_ There was an article about how programming isn't that rewarding as an end game to most normal (non psychologically troubled) folk \_ show us the article. Yeah a lot of the old farts at my work who still program seem psychologically... different. |
| 2010/2/1-3/4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53680 Activity:kinda low |
2/1 Is there a world writeable jobs directory (e.g. /csua/pub/jobs)?
A friend of mine is looking for a Senior HW engineer.
\_ Everyone is looking for a Senior * engr. At that point why even
say Senior?
\_ Senior often means you don't want someone straight out of school.
Of course, in SW that's not really true, and many? Cal
grads start out as Sr. SW Engineers. At least in this case, he's
looking for an actual senior person... probably an MS or PhD/PhD
dropout w/ a few years experience or a BS and at least 5.
\_ New college grads at my company all start out as Associate
SE, if they are good within a year or two they move to SE.
It takes a minimum of 3 and usually more like 5 to make
Sr. SE. I bet it is the same at any real tech company.
\_ By the time college grads graduate they've already got
2-3 summers of internship, we hire almost exclusively thru
our internship program. Basically when we see a graduate
we expect them to know everything already, if they don't
it's clearly a waste of time to hire them, I could just do
the job myself.
\_ How many full-time jobs do you think you can do
yourself? Even someone who works at 50% of your
efficiency for 75% of your salary is a net win
because it frees you up to do stuff others can't do.
\_ But then I'd have to train them and I do not have
any time to train them. They must know already.
The ideal candidate is a psychic engineer who has
already implemented my product in a serious open
src project. And if you can't find someone like tihs
fire your recruiters. There are 8 million coder
monkeys out there working on projects. One of them
is bound to have implemented the soln to the same
problem you're trying to solve. If you can't find
that person, the new hire isn't worth anything.
\_ What difference is it if they got trained as interns or
as new hires? They still have to be trained.
\_ That's my point, real engineers, NEVER have to be
"trained" they just KNOW. It's like at cal where the
bright kids never show up to lecture but ace all
the tests. Go Bears! Dogs are Trained. Interns
are trained. Bears and Engineers don't need to be.
\_ All these comments apply solely to SW.
@D:7+
@@D:N@D@@Z@@$,
7~Z @?=ND:7,
:$ DD,D:
:? O,N
D8 D88
7~ ND@
7D NDZ
:8 Z8@@
N@ Welcome Sodan. $D@@
NN There are 1036 N+=?
NN There are 1034 N+=?
NN There are 1031 N+=?
NN There are 1030 N+=?
DD days remaining. 7+$@
N?D ?,@@
IN I@@
N+, :N@N
D+~ ==@:
O=7 ::@:
8N== +$@@N
O Z8: :7~@@I
D O+:~=:O8ZZN@@@=
=ON@@@NDD |
| 2010/1/30-2/18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53678 Activity:nil |
1/30 Has anyone here worked as a remote engineer (e.g. headquarter is
in Silicon Valley), and if so, how long have you done it for
and what has your experience been like? -kchang
\_ No response, ok. Does anyone here know anyone else who
may know anyone else who may know anyone else who may
have worked as a remote engineer and can you help me
get in touch with that person? -kchang
\_ I don't think anyone cares, bro.
\_ I know a ton of people who started at HQ and the moved remote
after they had established themselves, but no one in that
particular situation, sorry. -ausman |
| 2009/12/24-2010/1/19 [Computer/SW/Apps, Industry/Jobs] UID:53599 Activity:nil |
12/18 http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/12/09/175245/Company-Trains-the-Autistic-To-Test-Software Train autistic people to do QA. Perfect fit. |
| 11/22 |
| 2009/12/15-2010/1/19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53594 Activity:nil |
12/15 I remember that when I was in school two decades ago, there was
one career center which handles co-ops and internships for all majors,
and another one which handles those specifically for engineering and
CS majors. Is that still the case these days? My company is looking
to hiring software interns in the next few months, and I wonder if
there is a better organization than the Career Center
(career.berkeley.edu) to work with. Thanks.
\_ You may be thinking of the Industrial Relations Office (IRO/IPRO).
Using this is very expensive: $10k/year to join the Industrial
Liason Program (ILP), plus other costs.
\_ 10K isn't a lot if you're hiring over 10 cheap students.
Scale is the key. If you're a big company, it makes a lot
of sense. That's why most companies on the program are
in fact big companies. Stupid failed startups like
Interval Research didn't make any sense. |
| 2009/11/5-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53505 Activity:low |
10/5 Google interviews, exposed. In another word, it's not very
different from Netscape's former interviews, Microsoft's
former interviews, and HP's former interviews when they
were still in their infancy:
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-google-interview-questions-that-will-make-you-feel-stupid-2009-11
http://blog.seattleinterviewcoach.com/2009/02/140-google-interview-questions.html#
Yes, they still care about your GPA, even if you worked
10 years and you're well into the 30s.
\_ the Rickety rope bridge question cannot be solved.
What's up?
\_ nevermind I Googled the solution and it exists
\_ You fail. (1+2->1->5+10->2->1+2).
\_ They asked me my SAT score and I was in my 30s at the time.
\_ Any employer that does that or ask for GPA needs to eff off.
I'd tell them to shove it and I scored well on my SAT. Maybe
they want my kindergarten report card, too? Do they drug test?
\_ I interviewed, education and GPA never came up. MANY detailed technical
questions did come up. They basically drilled me about things until
we reached a point that I couldn't explain any further what they asked me.
There were no stupid puzzle problems. It was an exhausting, difficult
interview and I didn't get the job.
\_ I interviewed, education and GPA never came up. MANY detailed
technical
questions did come up. They drilled me about things until
we reached a point that I couldn't explain any further what they
asked me. There were no stupid puzzle problems. It was an
exhausting, difficult interview and I didn't get the job.
\_ are they similar to the questions above? How accurate
is the link above? Did you answer the questions correctly?
\_ I think there's a healthy level of BS in that article. I didn't
go for Product Manager. I am not sure from the context if
their version of Product Manager is technical or glorified
time tracking. The manhole cover problem has been an infamous
Microsoft interview question for 20 years. What kind of nerd
doesn't know what 0xdeadbeef is? I didn't get asked any
puzzle questions. Oh there's my buddy the @#$@## pirate problem.
\_ This article is a load of crap. This 'answer' to this
'famous google interview question' is 'wrong'
http://www.businessinsider.com/answers-to-15-google-interview-questions-that-will-make-you-feel-stupid-2009-11#youre-the-captain-of-a-pirate-ship-11
\_ The question is poorly worded, you need to ask a bunch of
questions to make sure that the assumptions are correct.
\_ ok my friend made it through 2 phone, and 5 physical
interviews for SRE, got good marks from everyone, but the
hiring committee declined to try to hire him because he didn't
have a masters or phd.
\_ That is bullshit. I know lots of SREs who are not MS.
Actually most are not! The review process is on a point
system. If 4/5 people gave good remarks, he's pretty much
in the game. Something happened to the hiring committee.
There's a lot to be said about recruiters. Some are ok,
but most are bad contractors. -googler |
| 2009/10/29-11/3 [Computer/SW/Database, Industry/Jobs] UID:53480 Activity:nil |
10/28 I live in the Los Angeles area and a lot of jobs near me hire
people who are 1) Front End developer 2) ASP .NET Developer and/or
3) MS SQL DBA. Are these things common in Silicon Valley? I don't
remember seeing so much M$ requirements when I lived in the
Bay Area several years ago.
\_ tons for it and enterprise apps. more rarely for cool startups
\_ so cool companies don't use it, but lame ass companies do? |
| 2009/10/28-11/3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53476 Activity:high |
10/27 See how much tom makes:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/06/05/ucpay2008.DTL
\_ Sure glad I went the private industry route. Where is jkuroda?
Doesn't he work for the UC as well?
\_ Wow I can't believe this information is public. It makes me
glad that I don't work at U.C. either. I make a lot more
even though I'm much younger than Holub, and this is not
even counting my stock options.
\_ I make a lot more too, but I am middle management (as is
Tom). What do you do?
\_ Code monkey in the EDA industry. I've worked at
a startup that got acquired by Synopsis, then a router
management software (not EDA) company that got bought by
Cisco, and now working at a mid-sized company (again in
EDA) in San Jose. In all three cases I made over $100K,
without counting stock options. You need a PhD in EDA
to make serious money in the $150-170K but I'm just a
code monkey who codes routing shit. I'm sorry I can't
give you names away or you'll figure out who I am.
\_ Obviously if your intention is to acheive the greatest
possible monetary compensation, you shouldn't be
working for UC. I would argue that if your basic
needs are met and you have a comfortable cushion
for discretionary expenses, you should be focusing
on factors other than monetary compensation. How
many hours do you work, how long is your commute, is
your work satisfying? A lot of Americans, and in
particular a lot of geeks, seem to miss this. -tom
\_ commute ranged between 20-40min one way throughout
the three companies I worked at. I work 50HR/wk
on average, but there will be 1-2 weeks a year
that'll be more like 60-70HR/wk. How satisfying?
I read algorithmic papers and do implementations.
I don't deal with whining users, so I can't
imagine it being worse than sys admin.
\_ Personally, I find it important to work for
an organization whose overall goals I support.
I wouldn't be happy in any role at some random
dotcom producing nothing of real value. That's
a personal choice, of course.
By the way, I've not been a sysadmin for almost
10 years now. -tom
\_ EDA/CAD/routing/optimizer/placement is not a
*dot com* internet type of company. Do you
even know what EDA means? We use software
to build hardware.
\_ I wasn't speaking specifically about your
situation. But I also would find it
less than fulfilling to be in your
business. I worked for GE for 8 years
and that was probably 6 too many. -tom
\_ Is Google a dotcom producing nothing of
real value? Do you use Google? The Internet?
\_ I wouldn't work for Google.
\_ I wouldn't work for Google. -tom
\_ Google wouldn't want you. Too old and
not educated in the CS field.
\_ What are the retirement benefits like, though?
Are you going to be one of those State leeches
who makes more from the State after you retire
at age 52? If that's the case I would argue
$120K is overpaid.
\_ I will feed the troll only once on this:
earning a pension is no more "leeching" than
cashing in stock options is. It's part of
the non-salary compensation package. -tom
\_ Answer my question:
Is this pension going to be from age 50
until death at something close to (or more
than) your regular salary? If so, I would
argue that your current compensation is more
than fair. Most of us are not getting
$120K/year plus health benefits for our
retirement starting at age 50. It's not
that you are earning a pension. I don't
begrudge anyone that. I begrudge people
who earn exorbitant pensions whether it's
a Golden Parachute or whatever. When I see
some State employees retiring at age 50 at
more than their full-time salary it makes
me sick, especially when they are then
rehired at another salary. No one should be
paid more after retirement than they earned
while working and very few people should be
able to collect retirement before age 65.
I believe it is fair to retire at age 65
at 50% salary and even that is more than
most people get. Government workers who
were made promises we shouldn't have made
and can't keep are strangling government
budgets.
\_ You'll have to get your next meal elsewhere,
troll. -tom
\_ So contract law doesn't apply to
government pensions? How else would you
like to rewrite common law?
\_ It's not that the contract doesn't
apply so much as the State needs to
declare bankruptcy because they
cannot pay it. That's what other
entities do when obligations exceed
the ability to repay them.
\_ The State can easily afford to pay
all of its obligations. Some citizens
may not want to pay, but the potential
tax revenue is available.
\_ You're one of those people who
see every dollar that anyone
earns anywhere as "potential
State revenue" I take it.
Let's raise taxes to 100% and
we will all work for the
government in a utopian society.
The taxpayers did not promise these
pensions to the government
employees and they, rightfully,
refuse to pay for them. It's easy
to give away money if it's not
yours. You can just raise taxes
and get more. It's like magic!
\_ You get to declare bankruptcy
if you are unable to meet your
obligations, not just if you
don't feel like meeting them.
The taxpayers most certainly
did make this promise. They
elected representatives who
signed the contracts. No
different than when shareholders
elect a board to sign contracts.
\_ The State is going broke.
Hello, McFly! Have you
been asleep for the last
two years? When the CEO
screws up by making
promises he can't keep, like
happened at GM or United
Airlines then the company
goes BK! The State is in
the same situation. It
will take 25% of the general
fund to fund retirements
pretty soon. We cannot tax
our way out of that mess
without severe repercussions.
The Feds need to tax us
to fix the mess they made.
You can't just raise taxes to
90% to pay for all this crap.
However, the State, unlike
the Feds, *can* declare
bankruptcy. It's where we're
headed.
\_ Wan to bet? CA is not
\_ Want to bet? CA is not
going to declare bankruptcy
that is just a kook fantasy
I do hope we cut down
retirement benefits for new
hires though.
PS $15k invested each year for 25 years
at a 10% nominal gain (stock market avg)
gives you $2.5M, which is worth at least
as much as a $100/yr for life pension.
\_ First, you are lucky if you see a 10%
gain. It might be that much. It
might be less. Second, how many
employers out there that you know of
are putting 12.5% (15/120) of your
salary into an account for you? Mine
is better than average and it is 8%.
The average is 5.4% according to the
"50th Annual Survey of Profit
Sharing and 401k Plans." Third, to
save $2.5M over 25 years at 10% you
would need to invest $1886 per month
or $22K per year, not $15K.
\_ Private employers pay more, in return
you have to finance your own
retirement. There is risk here, but
you knew that when you decided to take
this route, right? No one was
bellyaching when the stock market was
on a tear, in fact a bunch of morons
tried to privatize Social Security
as well. If you want to try and strike
it rich, work in private industry, if
want security work for the government.
Hopefully this is not news to you.
Your math is correct, btw, thanks for
catching that. I was using 30 years,
not 25. Most UC plans need 30 years
to really get a good retirement.
\_ CalPERS lost a shitload of money
investing in the same crap
everyone else did, except they
have a government backstop.
They need to be held responsible
for the investments they made
*or* else everyone else needs
to be given the same luxury.
Meanwhile, our "safe" Social
Security investments are earning
crap. Damn straight I want my
SS $$$ to invest myself. Why
should State employees get to
invest 12.5% of their salaries
in high-risk, high-return
vehicles while I get almost
nothing on the money my employer
and I am contributing? BTW, I
wouldn't say private employers
pay that much more for most jobs.
Only high-level executives are
grossly underpaid by the government.
I have been browsing the lists
of State and Federal employees
and salaries are much higher
than you'd think.
\_ you're an idiot.
\_ This is a compliment
coming from you.
\_ State employees are now paying
8% into their retirement, which
they weren't before, to make up
for CalPERS losses.
\_ Oh, I get it, this database only includes those who made
$100k+.
\_ See sacbee link above. ALL state employees in that DB.
\_ I really hope TEDFORD, JEFF is worth what you're paying him
\_ Donations to the althetic department are up over $10M/yr since
Tedford was hired, so the answer is yes, he is worth it.
\_ Brian Harvey makes slightly more than Holub. Both make more than
Hilfinger. WTF?
David Patterson makes 345K, the highest I've seen so far. Nice.
\_ Why is John Canny's salary not higher?
\_ In the industry, salaries are set by how often you move
around; every move gives you an opportunity for an increase.
In academia, the same can happen, but people move much less.
So academic salaries are often driven by competitive offers;
Stanford will offer a package to one of our faculty, and the
deans will scramble to match the package (depending on the
faculty member). So faculty salary is partly a function
of how interesting the faculty member is to other
institutions, but also a function of how much the faculty
member is willing to go out and solicit offers for his
services. -tom
\_ That's because Patterson is worth it.
\_ According to salary, Mr. Football Coach is more worth it
than the RISC guy that brought huge changes and billions
of dollars and new opportunities to Silicon Valley.
Football rules!
\_ Why is John Yoo still making $1/4M? Isn't he on sabbatical?
\_ It's the government. He'll probably earn money until he dies
even if he never works again.
\_ No he is still working, he is just on loan to some OC school. |
| 2009/9/29-10/8 [Finance/Banking, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:53412 Activity:moderate |
9/29 So let's say I have some money, about $100k. What are some things
I could do with it? What do you guys recommend?
\_ Hookers and blow
\_ Guns, ammo, MREs, to prepare for the coming apocalypse!
\_ I am thinking about buying some gold.
\_ Gold is a bad idea right now. The inflation hedge is
already factored into the price. There are other assets that
are also a good inflation hedge that aren't in a bubble. Such
as real estate. (The bubble there having just burst.)
\_ quit your job, move back home, and do your own startup.
Realize that the sooner you stop working for DA MAN, the
less likely you'll run into mid-life crisis in your 30s.
\_ I would like to start my own business, but probably not
a startup.
\_ So, like, restaurant would be in your opinion your
own business, but not a startup? A startup doesn't
necessarily mean a TECH company less than 100 person.
\_ Let's say I bought a McDonalds franchise, would that be
a startup?
\_ uh, no. If you don't know and don't care, it's
better than you stick to working for THE MAN.
\_ What?
\_ Wait a couple more months, then use it as down payment for a rental
property.
\_ This is on the short list.
\_ Keep it in a savings account as a contingency fund and for
a down payment for the next time you sell and buy a house? |
| 2009/9/11-21 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:53358 Activity:low |
9/10 Everyone, please nominate your favorite sysadm! I vote for
Tom Holub aka tom@csua.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/09/10/sysadmin-of-the-year-1.html
\_ bahahahahaha you're kidding right?
\_ who is tom holub?
\_ Aubie. |
| 2009/7/23-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53190 Activity:nil |
7/23 Help end the failed experiment of a full-time legislature in CA
http://www.reformcal.com/cms
\_ So you are saying we will be better off if they are _less_
professional? Why don't we just make them work 80 hour weeks?
How about they do some of the roadwork in thier over-time so they
understand the utility of conserving state funds to allow for
hiring professionals? -mrauser |
| 2009/5/12-20 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:52985 Activity:nil |
5/12 What's the going rate these days for a CS summer intern doing some PHP
and MYSQL work on a web app? Doesn't really have to be that particular,
but that's just an example of what we're doing. Dog food and scraps
doesn't count as fair pay.
\_ My company is paying $0/hr, while my friend's company is paying
$22/hr.
\_ That's less than it was 10 years ago. Sucks.
\_ Interns aren't paid in most industries. Why isn't that true in
CS? (Not that I'm complaining, having made a few dollars myself
as an intern.)
\_ Supply and demand.
\_ Most engineering interns get paid. MBA interns generally get
paid. Also, undergrad business interns in accounting, consulting,
banking, etc. Supply and demand is the answer but your premise
was not true. |
| 2009/5/9-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52978 Activity:moderate |
5/9 After you date or marry, how long does it take for her to pick on
every little fucking thing that's wrong with you? My record is here:
1st gf: 3 years
2nd gf: 5 years
wife: 6 years
\_ do you have kids?
\_ This might actually be a very germane question. 1st,
kids would distract her, 2nd, there's an apparent
evolutionary phenonema that couples start to "lose the
spark" if they haven't produced kids together. And
even then, shopping for a new mate after 7 years is
also sort of an evolutionary urge. Maybe try
getting a dog?
\_ I think it's more "when people have kids they often
stop really living except as extensions of their kids"
I know plenty of people who got divorced within a year
of their last kid leaving the house and I'm pretty
sure they weren't staying together for the kids. Just
that once the kids left they looked at each other and
realized they didn't really like each other that much.
I also know several couples who have been together for
decades without having kids, but those couples seem
to actually love each other.
\_ I think I need to give you more info. Almost 7 years, no
kids. We're in our mid 30s. She talked about having kids
for a while, but the thing is I'm about to lose my job.
My commute really sucks. I spend 2-3 hours a day driving
in LA. There isn't a lot of tech job opportunities here.
I can't move because she loves LA. I am miserable. I think
she is too because I am miserable, and I haven't found any
decent tech job in the LA area for the past year or so.
In short, I don't want to have any kid without getting a
job that I can keep for the next 10 years.
\_ We're hiring if you're a Java programmer. Our office is
around the 405-90 interchange in Weschester.
\_ I think I don't have to say any more do I? Biological
clock is ticking and your quality of life sounds like
it is falling into a rut based on that commute.
Maybe you need to have a long talk or something about
being willing to move. I don't know what else you
could do. I guess it depends on your experience and
how much savings you have.
\_ moving is a solution? where can I move to that'll solve
all of my problems? PS I'm about to be unemployed. -pp
\_ Get a job closer to where you live next time.
\_ I tried looking for over a year. -pp
\_ 1. Where do you live?
2. Where are you willing to commute to?
3. What kind of job are you looking for?
\_ 1) Pasadena 2) anywhere within 25 min from
Pasadena (that means nothing West of 405)
I'm tired of recruiters who don't realize
that there is a huge difference between
LA, Irvine, Santa Monica, and Pasadena. They
think LA is LA. 3) anything technically
interesting is fine. I have a degree in
Computer Science.
\_ Be more specific about #3. Do you want
to be in/get into management or project
management? Software development? If
so, what problems interest you (parallel
programming, server side scripting,
e-commerce, security, games)? If not
s/w development then what? Sys admin?
DB admin? Network engineer? You need to
be a lot more specific in what you want
to do unless you are a very early
career hire who doesn't know yet and
then you need to say that.
\_ I find that it doesn't matter. I can
do anything, any language, any field.
\_ I think this may be why you are
having a problem finding a job.
"I can do anything" sounds pompous
and naive. "It doesn't matter" shows
you lack interest. I wouldn't
hire someone who said those things.
You need some focus. Your later
comments show that you have some
biases and preferences so think
about those. How do you want to
contribute to solving problems in
scalability and reliability on
the backend? Write code? Test?
Develop algorithms? Write drivers
for hardware? Design the system?
Admin it? BTW, you probably aren't
a "computer scientist" w/o a PhD
(certainly an MS) so don't worry
about the demand for those people
unless you have a grad degree and
then play it up.
\_ in a small environment, there
isn't a big separation between
coding, QA, and cleaning toilets.
A jack of all trades like the
first 50 Googlers does algorithms
and coding and QA while utilizing
whatever the hardware is given.
So while what you say applies to
big mega corporations, it's not
how every company works. You
sound like someone who has been
in a mega corporation too long,
or someone who knows it all.
I wouldn't want to hire someone
with such tunnel vision, embedded
with strict notion of hierarchy
and division of labor. I wouldn't
hire you.
\_ Or maybe I realize everyone
is not equally good at or
equally suited for every task.
Different topics bore different
people. You don't hire a
web developer to write your
device driver. If you are
looking for a place where
you are exposed to a lot
then SAY SO. However, I have
worked with enough PhDs to
realize that no one can "do
everything". What small
environments often lack are
EXPERTS except where it is
necessary to have expertise.
And in that case if you
don't have the expertise
then you're disposable anyway.
You mention Google. Those
first guys were not hired
for their QA skills. They
were hired for their expertise
in other needed areas. That
they ended up doing QA was
a function of being small,
not because they were domain
experts. I'm sure the QA
experts they have today (if
they have any) laugh at the
work that was done back then.
The big thing was not QA,
obviously. That doesn't
mean there weren't experts
in other areas, though.
However, for someone who
was a domain expert in QA:
1. Google probably didn't want
you then.
2. You probably didn't want to
work for them either.
So it is important to state
where your real interests
lie. If you have none that's
almost the same as saying you
have no expertise, because no
one is an expert at everything.
\_ It may sound naive but I think
he's right. A good engineer
can adapt pretty quickly to any
type of project. It just takes
the ability to learn. I
actually think "I can do anything"
is very healthy attitude. Pretty
much all successful startups
involve doing stuff that is new,
stuff nobody may have experience
in. Only being interested in
narrow specialized problems is
the attitude of a peon.
Of course, employers may not see
it that way, because peons are
what they are probably trying to
hire.
\_ It's a given that you can
learn and adapt if you went
to a school like Cal. That's
quite different from "I
need someone who can do XYZ
job". If I need someone to
design my embedded operating
system I don't look at this
guy and think "Well, he'll
learn this." Not on my dime
he won't. He may never or
he may decide it bores him.
I want someone good at it with
experience or else someone with
demonstrated interest in
the topic and then only
for a lower level position.
Will I higher someone who
Will I hire someone who
seems smart to learn it?
Maybe, but not if he tells
me "It doesn't matter"
what he works on. The
phrasing is very important.
"I have been able to handle most
challenges I have faced so far,
while working fast-paced
environments where we all
wore many hats" is not the
same as "I can do everything
and I don't care what I do."
See the difference?
wore many hats and I'd love
to learn more about embedded
systems and OS design. I
took a course that used VxWorks
in college and I'd like to
build on that, but I never had
the chance at my current job"
is not the same as "I can do
everything and I don't care
what I do." See the difference?
Of course this guy cares
what he does and no he is
not good at everything. His
response seemed lazy and
sloppy to me.
\_ Different styles, same
semantics. You seem like
a superficial prick who
gets a kick out of driving
a nice car.
\_ I beg to differ. One
expresses an interest in a
certain field. The other
is sloppy, lazy, naive,
and pompous. Hiring
managers want to hire
people interested in what
they do and perhaps what
the company does. I
want this guy to get
a job. I am trying to help
him. He's been at it a
year on his own and a
lack of focus seems to
be why he's having a
tough time finding and
getting a job he wants.
Don't hate on me for
trying to help a
fellow CSUA'er.
\_ hey thanks for the
feedback. I get your
point. Yes I'm a
pompous jerk online
but you'll never see
that side of me in
person. Does that
help? -pp
\_ yes, give me your
name so we know not
to hire you.
\_ Not really.
Final advice:
Figure out where
you'd like to work
and what you'd like
to do there. If
videogames are
totally boring to
you and you want to
work on a team
designing fighter
jets then search the
job listings for
fighter jet
manufacturers
and look for a fit.
If you want to
design fighters, but
also do not want to
work for a big
company like
Lockheed then look
at subcontractors
for Lockheed or for
a startup competitor
to Lockheed or a
small, new group
just established to
do new work within
Lockheed. When
you find a jet
fighter startup that
has jobs open for
DBA, Java developer,
and software systems
engineer figure out
which is a best fit
for you and the
company. Don't apply
to them all b/c you
can do them all,
even if that's true
at some level. Don't
apply to videogame
makers, b/c they
will sniff out your
lack of interest.
They may not hire
you b/c of it.
Worse, they might
hire you and you
will be miserable,
will not advance,
and might get fired.
Hope this helps!
Preferably backend infrastructure on
scalability, reliability, etc. But you
know what? There is very little need
for computer scientists out there. Most
jobs are "do some web programming in
X language." I can do that too. I work
at a super mega web company. I've done
frontend (yuck), backend, middle-tier,
everything. 10 years of experience. -pp
\_ I would start by searching large
employers in the area then. I just
\_ the thing is, I've worked for large
employers all my life. I'm tired
of large corporation bullshit and
I want to experience little
corporation bullshit.
\_ So you are not just looking for
anything. You want a hardcore
engineering job at a startup
doing infrastructure or
scalability within a short
commute from Pasadena. Good luck!
looked at Caltech, JPL, Edison and
Jacob's Engineering for you and found
the job below. Do you have Oracle
programming experience? You might also
want to look at large hospitals in
the area, or anyone in a growth
industry. Jacob's has an Oracle
Finance programmer type job and Edison
a job for someone with 5 years
experience in Real Time Control and
Monitoring (SCADA), which I assume
you do not. Edison actually has a bunch
of jobs in their Rivergrade office,
which is an easier commute than
Westside for you.
\_ link:tinyurl.com/c9ob56
Ask dim to recommend you for a job at JPL...
\_ JPL has a hiring freeze. Dunno why that
job was posted recently. I could find
out. Not too sure about what working
in the OPS Lab is like, but the guy
who leads it is supposed to be prettty
who leads it is supposed to be pretty
bright and is well liked. His name is
Jeff Norris. I can forward a resume.
Be aware this looks like an entry-level
sort of position with likely entry-level
pay. I am going to guess $70-80K,
but that's just me guessing and
maybe it's a lot higher. --dim
Added: The freeze may not apply b/c
this is likely an Early Career Hire,
which we are still allowed to hire. |
| 2009/5/7-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52964 Activity:low |
5/7 had 3 interviews (over 2 days) that all went well but didn't
get an offer. I've heard its totally normal and acceptable to
ask for feedback and/or "what went wrong" or "why didn't I
get an offer". Is that really true? How should I approach this?
ask one of the tech people I spoke to? or the recruiter (who
seems generally unknowledgeable but maybe in a better position
to get feedback from everyone i spoke to)? thx
\_ May I ask which companies?
\_ this was all at one company. its a web agency. I live in nyc.
\_ Asking why you didn't get the job doesn't hurt. What are they going
to do, not hire you?
\_ GOOG just likes screwing with you
\_ well, I'm hoping to freelance there in lieu or a fulltime job.
\_ You can ask, but you're unlikely to get more than a stock
response, ("We appreciated your skills and experience, but we
had another candidate who was a better fit.") -tom
\_ Yup. When I was interviewing people, we rejected a lot who were
completely unqualified, and a few who had other issues (unable to
form a coherent sentence, etc.); the rest were fine, and we tried
to pick the best one. If you think the interviews went well, you
were probably in the third category, and so they really won't
be able to tell you more than "you were fine, there was someone
better".
\_ This is true, most places are concerned about liability issues.
\_ I interviewed some intern candidates a few months ago and the
college gave me an eval form to fill out for each candidate, asking
me to grade them (A,B,C,D,F) on 5-6 topics and had a spot for
feedback. I gave feedback (e.g. "didn't answer questions clearly",
"best answer to question X", "didn't seem knowledgable or interested
in the job", "good grasp of industry issues"). I wish this was more
acceptable/common.
\_ I interviewed at this startup where a buddy of mine worked at.
I kicked ass on the technical interview. I knew the CEO and we
used to work together when he was a director at our old company.
Everyone seemed to liked me, and I thought I was going to get
an offer. The CEO called and said he was sorry but they don't
have funding for another engineer at the time. I asked my buddy
and the real answer was everyone liked me EXCEPT this one PhD
tech lead dude who just didn't like me (he had communications
problems, or that I was not good enough to get through his
communications gap). Personally, I thought he was just too smart
for everyone else. That's it. All it takes is one person who
REALLY doesn't want to work with you on a daily basis, period.
\_ Seems unfair, but almost reasonable. If the team is small and
the dude you are going to work with 30 hours a week can't stand
you, he shouldn't hire you.
\_ I know, life is not fair, but I really didn't want to work
with him 70 hours a week anyways. P.S. what startup compnay
allows people to work 30 hours a week? -pp
\_ I made up an arbitrary amount of hours you would be working
directly with the dude who hates you. |
| 2009/4/17-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52865 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto |
4/17 http://www.slate.com/id/2216238 Year-over-year job loss numbers by month since Jan 07 Sep 08 - Jan 09 were doozies! \_ Excellent article with pretty charts. Thanks motd YOU RULE!!! \_ Looks like Detroit was fucked from the beginning. |
| 2009/4/16-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52853 Activity:low |
4/16 I have a subordinate who is sick a lot. I think she's legimately sick
most of the time (if not all) since she has doctor's notes (and
even had a surgery once for a problem) but she is sick so often that it
jeopardizes her ability to get work done and strains her teammates.
This latest time she was out 3 weeks for bronchitis, which seems
like an awful long time to me but she does have a doctor's note. She
has more than once used all of her sick time up and had to go
on unpaid leave (just to give an idea of frequency). I don't know
what to do. I feel bad for her, but I have work to do. I am not
sure if I can reprimand her or what options I have. I am paying
for a full-time employee but getting 75% time work. Her work is
good when she is present and she has a long tenure with the company.
\_ Seems like maybe something HR could help you with. I know for
the most part HR tends to be full of people that talk a big
game, and never really accomplish much, but this is exactly
the kind of thing that they are supposed to be getting payed for.
the kind of thing that they are supposed to be getting paid for.
\_ This can be tough, I had a guy like this, who was a top performer,
had a kid, then started calling in sick all the time and falling
way back. I kept reprimanding him for missing deadlines, finally
wrote him up and threatened to fire him and then he straightened
out. If I would have had to fire him, I would have felt like a
heel, but then again, no one told you that management was going
to be all a bowl of cherries, did they? You should talk to your
boss first, to make sure they are on board with whatever you are
going to do.
\_ People get old. sucks. we can't all work 12 hours a day every
day like a single guy fresh out of school. |
| 2009/2/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:52585 Activity:moderate |
2/16 So California is going to lay off 20% of employees. Seems like a
good idea, but won't all those people now get unemployment benefits? So
we'll be paying something like 60% of their salaries (depends on
their income) for 0% of their work.
\_ It's a great idea because we're starving the beast. Who needs
a big government? Every man should be self reliant for his own
life style. Ya know, buy your own electric generator and sustain
your own godamn lifestyle. -Republican troll
\_ 500K people are losing their jobs per month. Should the government
tax us more so that no one loses a gov't job?
^who still have jobs,
\_ Definitely not. The government should tax foreigners who are
taking most of the wealth that America trickled down to.
\_ The last time CA had a big layoff was 1974. I think it's time.
However, 20000 layoff notices doesn't mean 20000 layoffs.
\_ Just to be clear: layoffs seem like a good idea, but paying
people to not work seems like a bad idea. We should layoff
when the economy is *good* so that people get off of
unemployment quickly not when the economy is bad and people
will have trouble finding other work.
\_ That's very true. We should also save money in the good
times to spend in the bad. Please call me if you have
any inkling that any of these two things might actually
happen.
\_ San Francisco does it. I can't see why the State can't. |
| 2009/1/22-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52439 Activity:high |
1/22 Layoffs at Microsoft, Intel, IBM. See, this is part of the problem
with deflation amid a recession. When prices crater, companies'
revenue decreases and people get layoffs.
\_ Poll: If you're the CEO, would you try to lay off a large
percentage of your workers, or would you implement changes
like mandatory vacation or pay cut? Either case will decrease
morale but it seems for me to make sense to me to cut pay since
it's darm hard to hire talented engineerss when you need them.
Then again, I'm not in management so maybe pay cut is a lame
thing in the first place. -dumb engineer
\_ Maybe the layoffs are an excuse to get rid of dead wood:
"Lay off your lowest 20% of people, the underperformers."
Alternately, perhaps they concentrate the layoffs in
areas where replacement is easy: leave the engineers,
fire the salesforce.
\_ Layoffs *always* get rid of deadwood, unless the company is in
a death spiral. In good times, you get fatty, in slim times,
you cut the crap. Unless of course you're in government.
\_ Seriously, here in the government, instead of firing
people, we give incentives to leave. So, the good people
take the money and get a job elsewhere. The deadwood
stays.
\_ Not all government positions are the same. When you
say "here", what is here? There's a huge difference
between DMV and NSA. Even within JPL there's a huge
difference between people who are launching missions
and people who do IT support for people who do missions.
\_ You clearly know nothing about how intelligence
agencies are staffed.
\_ I don't. Please enlighten me.
\_ Check out "Spies For Hire" which is a good
overview of this topic. Basically, large
portions of "employees" at the big intel shops
are actually (extremely expensive) outsourced
contractors, a trend which is true across the
board in the federal govt. right now. Also
check out SAIC, Booz Allen Hamilton, et al.
Random factoids:
- 50% of the clandestine case officers at
CIA are contractors.
- Virtually 100% of the National
Reconnaissance Office (NRO) is contracted
- 70% of all US Intelligence Community funds
are spent on external contracts rather
than internal capabilities.
- Booz Allen Hamilton has 10,000 employees
with Top Secret Codeword clearances
\_ The private sector is obviously more
efficient at creating spooks than the public
sector.
\_ Your analysis would be correct, except for
the fact that most of the intelligence
contractors are massive barrels of FAIL.
\_ Your analysis would be correct, except
for the fact that most of the
intelligence contractors are massive
barrels of FAIL.
\_ BTW, finding a competent salesperson is much harder than
finding a competent engineer. Sales also has a more
direct effect on the bottom line. These two reason are
why salespeople make more money than engineers despite
the perception that they are "dumb leeches".
\_ Good salespeople make more money. Bad salespeople
get fired.
\_ What happens to bad engineers?
\_ They usually hang on much longer than bad
salespeople.
\_ #t. Bad engineers are hard to weed out
because they tend to get close to management
and management is nicer to people who are
loud and social (vs. those that are technically
good). These are the same people who move
up the chain and manage more bad engineers.
The plus side is that they create more job
opportunities for even more engineers who
have to fix up 20 year old legacy code. Heck
50% of the engineering jobs in Silicon Valley
are systems integration, QA, and bug fixing.
\_ One of the most depressing attitudes at
Berkeley is the one that social skills
and coding skills are diametically opposed.
It is possible (in fact, extremely desirable)
to have both.
\_ Sure. But the reality is that serious
coding is a rather isolating and time-
consuming activity. This doesn't lend
itself to practicing social skills.
I've noticed a definite correlation
between sociability and low engineering
skill. The sociable ones make up for
their lack of engineering prowess by
talking a lot and getting others to
give them insights. Or they constantly
make noise and are visible to management
even though in reality their antics are
a waste of time (theirs and others)
if you compare it to the quiet engineer
who just Gets Shit Done(TM) because he
is smart enough to figure stuff out.
Of course, the noisy visible stuff is
pretty much what a manager is supposed
to do; but management is really a
separate career to engineering.
Then there's marketing, which has few
performance metrics compared to sales
and engineering...
\_ Actually, I disagree. The "silent"
serial killer coder types are actually
among the worst to work with for
other engineers. A primary reason for
this is their distorted view of their
own intelligence and value, and their
inability to listen to other people.
One of the worst jobs I ever had was
populated with these "silent geniuses,"
and they spent so much time being
impressed with their own genius that
they forgot to produce a marketable
product.
\_ I agree with you. Most of the
best engineers have good people
skills. Not all of them, of
course. They are willing to talk
to people to bounce ideas around
and they are receptive to criticism.
Engineers should pay more attention
to scientists. Most scientists
are extremely smart just like
engineers and yet also more
social. Would you say Feynman
was a bad scientist because he
was social? Of course not, so
why make the same assumption
about engineers? If the social
engineers are the ones getting
ahead then maybe you should pay
attention to that. The few true
"quiet geniuses" I know who
likely are affected with something
like Aspberger's get taken
advantage of. That doesn't mean
the ones who do not display that
quality are not just as competent
or add less value to the
organization. What adds more
value to the company? A bad
engineer like Steve Jobs or a
good one like Steve Wozniak? I
can tell you they are both very
successful but one got taken
advantage of and the other made
the most of his talents. Try to
be the latter.
\_ But Jobs's value isn't
really as an engineer, that's
the point. Jobs uses other
people and makes judgement calls.
That's what a manager/executive
is supposed to do.
Wozniak did ok. But ultimately Woz
was replaceable and Jobs is not,
\_ This is the key. Good
engineer or not, Jobs added
more value to the organization.
It wasn't that he was
"loud and social" which
made his career a success.
What Bitter Engineer needs to
realize is that some of the
people he is badmouthing are
adding more to the
organization than he is
and that just because they
are "loud and social" does
not automatically make
them bad engineers anymore
than it makes Feynman a
bad scientist. He needs to
be less jealous, realize what
is contributing to their
success, and learn from it.
Otherwise, he will always
be Bitter Engineer With
Feelings of Jealousy and
Smug Superiority stuck in
a crappy role while other
move on up.
because Jobs had the market
vision. Jobs successfully
judges human desirability of
products. It's a lot different
than just making a faster CPU or
a cost-effective highway bridge.
\_ Microsoft is sitting on more cash than some sovereign nations.
They're just using this opportunity to get rid of dead wood.
\_ In my econ classes we learned that most people would prefer
layoffs to pay cuts when given the choice and just hope they
are not the ones being cut. Presumably this is because they
think they are more valuable than their peers and will be kept.
There is some truth to this (see: dead wood) but most people
also consider themselves better-than-average drivers
\_ Most people are better-than-average drivers. Learn your
medians and means.
\_ I know the difference between median and mean. I doubt
most people are better-than-average drivers. |
| 2009/1/6-7 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52328 Activity:high 57%like:52332 |
1/6 Sanjay Gupta? Really?
\_ But inside he is as white as KKK's white satins sheets.
\- a friend of mine was in a lot of classes with him
in high school. apparently he was kind of a sociopath,
but evidently sociopaths make good neurosurgeons.
it's too bad he didnt pick AGAWNDE.
\_ Isn't everyone in high school kind of a sociopath?
\_ Indians have a core competency (+2) in Medicine.
\_ well they sure can't code or sink pirates
\_ The Danes have +2 hitpoint in axe and in bezerk mode.
\_ +5 to hp and Str if we're drinking Akvaavit.
\_ The Asians have +1 intellect and -4 in shield
\_ Only if you mean getting degrees. In my experience they aren't
necessarily good doctors. At least clinicians. Surgeons might
be something else entirely. Not enough experience to say.
\_ My Indian GP rules. --white guy
\_ i pick white doctors. |
| 2008/12/4-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:52166 Activity:nil |
12/4 Maybe you should have the CSUA initiate an ongoing CS project it could
be known for, and thereby have more of a raison d'etre for the hardware
choices. For example a game development thing open to any and only
members. It could perhaps offer experience/tutelage in more practical
aspects of CS than the academic stuff, but not just pointless IT
exercises like you guys seem to be focused on now.
\_ Not a bad idea, but last time we started projects, they died from
neglect. --toulouse
\_ So do something small. Get an ipod touch and have an iphone
development contest. Give people 1 month to come up with
something cool and give away the touch to the top prize.
The CSUA should be all about getting people interested in
CS. There was a time when "having a unix computer that was
on the internet" was a good way to give people an incentive
to learn about cool computer stuff. That day is long gone.
\_ The lottery scheduler was the last project I remember. What
other projects were there? -crufty-alum
\_ Didn't help the XCF. (RIP)
\_ Well, maybe their project and club is too boring. CSUA starts
from being a social club; a project like this would have to
be lightweight enough to keep people interested as an aside from
their school work. I don't think some OS research project is
appropriate, for example.
\_ XCF had other problems, but honestly, CSUA is getting less
and less relevant these days.
\_ Maybe you can start by organizing small groups interested in
contributing some feature to an open source project. People working
alone or towards a non-well-defined goal tend to be unmotivated. |
| 2008/11/25-12/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:52104 Activity:nil |
11/25 I just received a cold email in my LinkedIn account from a head hunter
about a hot opportunity at a well-funded startup and blah blah. Head
hunters still do this these days? Aren't there a lot of engineers out
there looking for jobs? I'm not a hot-shot with an impressive resume
or anything.
\_ There's a ton of people looking for jobs which makes it very hard
to find someone remotely qualified for a position. It's amazing
how many shitty shitty engineers there are out there.
\_ Headhunters make money by placing people. Recruiters will always
be with us.
\_ I have started getting more interest in my resume as well, after
about six months of nothing. Which startup, do you mind saying?
\_ http://www.ringcube.com -- OP |
| 2008/11/25-12/1 [Academia/Berkeley, Industry/Jobs] UID:52100 Activity:nil |
11/25 tom i don't think you are going to retire tomorrow and get rehired
at the same pay while collecting retirement, but it sure looks bad
when other UC employees do:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/23/BA48121D36.DTL
\_ And? It looks bad when corporate execs take huge golden parachutes
for running their companies into the ground, too. I don't
support either practice. -tom
\_ That's shareholders' problem, not mine. However, public
employees are paid by us all. Rehiring retirees at higher
salaries is a crime against the taxpayer and thus the people.
\_ I agree. Will you shut up now? -tom
\_ You do realize that there are at least three people
participating in this thread, right?
\_ Hard to keep track of all you anonymous cowards. -tom |
| 2008/11/19-23 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:52041 Activity:nil |
11/19 Toyota to lay off temporary workers in US. are we screwed now?
\_ When GM goes under, they'll rehire them.
\_ HAN: (over speaker) Now let's blow this thing and go home!
\_ I know you don't believe in technical indicators, but today
the S&P 500 very nicely bounced off of its Oct 2002 low. |
| 2008/11/19-23 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:52039 Activity:kinda low |
11/19 Jing Hua Wu, the engineer who police say fatally shot three executives
at a Santa Clara startup company last week just hours after being
fired, spent the last few years amassing a large portfolio of
investment properties.
Stick lolz under this. I dare you.
\_ Advice to executives: don't meet with someone you just fired.
\_ Waiting for the Chico CCW guy to say something useful here <----
\_ And he said he couldn't afford a private attorney.
\_ mebbe he was just being a cheapazz
\_ maybe he lost his shirt on all his investments
\_ and his wife was recently laid off
\_ This guy is kind of my hero, I have fantasized about shooting my
boss many times (but never actually go through with it, at least
not so far...).
\_ You are so hard. Can I have your babies?
\_ Spread your legs and embrace his hardness.
\_ I think you are mistaken about this guy's intentions. He does
not seem to be attempting to come off as "hard". Or, at least
he certainly isn't. He's coming off more as the "you took my
swingline stapler" guy from office. Do you think it is "hard"
to have fantasies about killing people? I'm sure that all men
(/boys) have them at some point. Or are you SO above all that.
'cause if so, i'm very impressed. You are so superior, can I
to have fantasies about killing people? I'm sure that all
men (/boys) have them at some point. Or are you SO above
all thatscause if so, i'm very impressed.
You are so superior, can I
have your babies?
\_ No I think someone is trying to be hard when they cheer
that someone went into an office and killed 3 people.
\_ lulz
\_ Can you take my thick 8 inches?
\_ I am fully erect.
\_ maybe maybe maybe who cares. He murdered 3 people.
Let him fry.
\_ Agreed. -sf liberal |
| 2008/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Industry/Jobs] UID:52022 Activity:low 77%like:51992 |
11/14 Angry Lead Test Engineer shoots boss, CEO, gets away in a rented car:
link:www.mercurynews.com/ci_10987100
\_ you mean angry Lead Test Engineer, whatever that is
\_ Unfortunately, it looks like they caught him:
link:www.mercurynews.com/ci_10993931
Why didn't he run?
\_ Odds are it was a crime of passion/temp. insanity. He didn't
run because he was probably in shock.
\_ he got fired in the morning, left to get a 9mm, came back in
the afternoon for a meeting with his superiors, and shot all
three dead.
\_ yeah it wasnt a crime of shock. he got fired. he asked
to have a meeting with the three people he thought were
involved in his firing. he killed them all, left
the building.
\_ Not interested in defending the dude. Just saying that
he probably didn't run because he hadn't planned it out
that far. |
| 2008/11/4-5 [Reference/RealEstate, Industry/Jobs] UID:51819 Activity:nil |
11/4 A different kind of detention:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081104/ap_on_re_us/bay_spill
"Living rent-free in apartments and hotels, they are permitted to roam
San Francisco and the surrounding area. They continue to draw their
salaries, and each also receives $1,200 per month in witness fees,
more than the monthly salary of at least one detained seaman."
"Some of them are going to school to learn English."
Life under detention is good, man. |
| 2008/10/30-31 [Industry/Jobs] UID:51749 Activity:nil |
10/30 Top 100 companies to work for. Yahoo is higher than Google!
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/HotJobs100
\_ I wonder who owns HotJobs, the people who make that list.
\_ Having worked at both PwC and Apple, my guess is that this list
is significantly worse than "random". |
| 2008/10/27-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:51698 Activity:nil |
10/27 Tech layoff list
http://news.cnet.com/tech-layoffs/?tag=nl.e501
\_ Qimonda is laying off 3000 people? I have never even heard of these
guys before. The funniest thing is that two different companies
have contacted me via LinkedIn to see if I wanted to interview
for a VP job at their startup just in the last week or so.
\_ Qimonda is a German company. Is this supposed to be a world-wide
list of layoffs or something? |
| 2008/9/30 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:51331 Activity:moderate |
9/30 What happened to the dot-com bailout? Also, dans' Slide is totally
screwed. The worst place to be is a late-stage company with a high
expense rate, selling products primarily into the U.S. market,
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/technology/View_from_Valley_OBrien.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008093012
\_ I'm not sure why you mention Slide. It's not a focus of the url
you have posted. I always thought Slide was a bizarre expensive
vanity project of one of the Paypal founders. |
| 2008/8/21-26 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:50921 Activity:nil |
8/21 So I am trying to apply for a senior/staff job position at this
place and I'm wondering if I should apply directly, or ask a
headhunter to represent me. Mind you, I'm an old fart and have had
a lot of bad experiences where the company gave me a hard time
during the interview process and negotiation process. On the other
hand I've had one really good experience where the headhunter did
everything she could to negotiate with the company and got me the
exact salary I asked for and the job I wanted. Obviously, I don't
have a lot of data points, but I wonder in general, is it good/bad
to ask a headhunter to represent me? I can see tons of arguments
from both sides and I'm just wondering what you guys think. Thanks.
\_ When did this trend of starting with "So" start?
\_ الله أَكْ! |
| 2008/7/17-23 [Science/Electric, Industry/Jobs] UID:50607 Activity:nil |
7/17 CS degrees no longer paying off:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121623686919059307.html
\_ thanks for the url. but what i got was that she was an expensive
db admin from a telco and her advice for job security was to have
m4d c0d1NG sk1ll5
\_ CS has always been a field where you have to agressivly stay
current and you have to save for those lean years where jobs
are tough. Staying current has never been easier and frankly
if you don't have a good project that you could waste a year
or two on you aren't a good CS person. -mid 30s/no kids/no mortgage
\_ Staying current is not easy for someone like me with two kids,
timewise. -- late 30s, wife & two kids, mortgage
\_ Completely true, but it's part of the job. Actually, it's a
part of most well-paid jobs.
\_ Just switch to management. -- early 40s phb, w & k, mortgage
\_ "And in information technology, a portfolio of hands-on
experience with programming is a really good thing to have."
\_ Except if you're in Google, experience is a LIABILITY.
They hate people with experience. They want young,
energetic, optimistic, hard working (e.g. willing to work
70 hours a week min). They hate old farts and they even
start old farts at the SAME LEVEL as newbies for a year
so that they can prove themselves. However, promotion is
based on co-worker kissing each other's ass, so it's an
environment that is very old fart unfriendly. -G
\_ Do you ever shut up?
\_ No and FUCK YOU. Larry larry larry larry larry!!! |
| 2008/7/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:50537 Activity:high |
7/11 Regarding the below discussion about "overpaid" government
employees, here is a result of a search on all programmers
who work for the State Board of Equalization:
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/766730.html
As you can see, the pay is below industry standard.
\_ You know who makes way too much in California? Firefighters.
Screw those guys. Just as soon as they're done fighting the 3000
simultaneous fires going on now all over the state and turning
my sunset a pleasant red, I expect a full auditing of their
overtime and massive firings.
\_ If they have to work that much overtime then maybe they need
to hire more firefighters. However, I bet the unions won't
allow that. There are lots of people lining up to be
firefighters and there are no positions to be had, yet these
guys work crazy overtime (which has to be unsafe). They
won't accept making their base salary amount, though, which
is what they'd have to take if enough were hired.
\_ My take all along has been that IT is one of the *few* areas that
the government underpays, which is probably why so many of you
think that government pay is low.
\_ Never worked for the government I see.
\_ Never lived in DC I see.
\_ Show me a job title and employer where the pay is high then:
http://www.sacbee.com/statepay
All I see is mediocre (at best) pay levels.
\_ How about an OC detective making $221K?
\_ Unsourced anecdotal evidence is pretty weak. I presented
you with a database with tens of thousands of salaries,
now go make your case.
\_ Happy?
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deputies14-2008may14,0,1117569.story
"The average salary for federal employees is
$60,517... the Washington, DC area has an average
salary of $78,593."
(Source: http://www.fedsmith.com/article/687
"The top overtime recipient was sheriff's
investigator Theodore R. Harris, who made $120,000
in overtime, bringing his total pay to $221,000"
(Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deputies14-2008may14,0,1117569.story
(Source: http://preview.tinyurl.com/5lxapl [la times])
"City workers' average salaries will reach about
$68,850 for civilians and $93,800 for sworn police
and fire by July - placing them in the upper ranks
of comparable cities and far higher than
private-sector workers."
(Source: http://www.dailynews.com/search/ci_9221826?IADID=Search-www.dailynews.com-www.dailynews.com
(Source: http://preview.tinyurl.com/5lb8s9 [daily news])
"What was not reported was her annual salary,
which, according to a database published by the
Daily News, is $104,000. Another DWP mother in
attendance was Wendy Ramallo, the wife of Joe
Ramallo, who, according to the database, makes
$167,478 per year.
By the way, if those two drove to the meeting, they
probably drove a car you own. You see, all DWP
employees with six-figure incomes get, in addition
to their salary, a free car, paid for by you, the
taxpayer/ ratepayer.
Sara Perez and Jo-Del Navarro also spoke out, but
they "only" make $86,025.60 and $72,620 per year."
(Source: http://www.citywatchla.com/content/view/1032
"As the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power
seeks a hefty taxpayer rate hike, a Daily News
review of salary data shows the average utility
worker makes $76,949 a year - or nearly 20 percent
more than the average civilian city worker.
More than 1,140 of the utility's employees - or
about 13 percent - take home more than $100,000 a
year. And General Manager Ron Deaton, who is on
medical leave, rakes in $344,624 a year making him
the city's highest-paid worker.
DWP salaries are on average higher than city and
far higher than private-sector workers'"
(Source: http://tinyurl.com/6xctu5 [laist])
LWDP database showing painters making $79K:
http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/ladwpsalaries/?appSession=735104577589687
http://preview.tinyurl.com/64ubs3 [dailynews]
Feel free to search for your own job titles at:
http://lang.dailynews.com/socal/ladwpsalaries/
Even "CUSTODIAL SERVICES ATTENDANTS" make $46K.
"Have you heard about the fire captain in the city
of San Diego who made $242,138 in one year? How
about the city lifeguard who made $138,787? It's
all true - and if you thought the city of San Diego's
pensions were generous, wait until
you see how much some city workers are being paid."
"For years, the city's powerful unions and many
city officials have claimed city workers are
underpaid - using the official salary
schedules published in the budget as their
evidence. It is time that the public be told
exactly what city workers are paid. Taxpayers
should not have to rely on an institute to dig up
the information using W-2 data. City departments
(such as the Fire Department) also put "phantom
positions" in their budget to hide off-budget
expenses such as excessive overtime. Mayor Jerry Sanders
recently discovered that 400 or more salaried positions
are not even included in the budget each year."
(Source: http://tinyurl.com/pz5wo [sd union tribune])
\_ "The average salary for federal employees is
$60,517... City workers' average salaries will reach
about $68,850 for civilian workers..." Sorry, those
numbers just don't seem that exorbitant to me, do
they to you? Perhaps there are a few departments where
employees are overpaid (and it sounds like DWP is
one of them) but to extrapolate from that to all
they to you? Perhaps there are a few departments
where employees are overpaid (and it sounds like DWP
is one of them) but to extrapolate from that to all
government employees is bad logic. I do not
begrudge someone getting paid 2X a normal salary
if they do 80 hrs/week of work and I don't
understand why you would either. It does sound like
their boss needs to hire someone new, but this is
their boss needs to hire an extra person, but this is
not always possible, as should be obvious if you
stop to think about for even a second.
\_ 1. It depends on the job being done. For an
accountant maybe not. For a simple clerk,
painter, or custodian then yes. The
argument was that gov't employees are
underpaid and that is clearly untrue. They
don't have to have 'exorbitant' salaries
for that to be untrue. I make $100K and I
don't have a free car, for instance.
2. I gave data for all federal employees, so
we don't have to extrapolate.
3. Do you really think these people are doing
80 hours/week of work based on the hours
gov't offices keep and your experiences in
working with the city/county? For
instance, in San Diego they get every
other Friday off. And they are still
working crazy OT? No way. It's a farce
caused by lax auditing. Why are people who
make $100K per year getting any overtime
at all? At my company (and most companies)
people at that level are exempt and we just
suck it up or quit. The article is making
a point that "phantom positions" are
created to perpetuate this overtime fraud.
The gov't will never hire appropriately
because it would be akin to a pay cut for
the workers. It's easier to continue with
the status quo because you have an excuse
why you are behind on work (short-staffed)
and make the paper salaries seem small.
4. Like I said, I have two sisters working
for the gov't and it's easy money. My one
sister is very honest and she always says
she doesn't have enough work to do and
asks for more and they tell her she needs
to stop working so hard and just enjoy it,
except she gets bored. She's an executive
secretary (which means she is the personal
secretary for a high-level engineer) and
she makes $70K. In another 4 years (will
have been 20 years) she can retire with
50% of her salary and free medical for
life. I don't begrudge her that, but let's
be honest about how that compares to being
a secretary at, say, Wells Fargo (where my
mom worked for many years) where those
benefits are non-existent and you would be
lucky to make $40K in that position. Put
the 'government employees are underpaid'
thing to rest. At worst, they are
compensated as well as anyone else and
usually better.
\_ You're talking a lot, but you're not
saying anything.
\_ You're a moron who can't read.
\_ Since you are the king of making up things
to support your position, I need a lot more
than "the friend of my sister-in-law over
heard at a party" kind of data. Give me a
job description and a state department and
show me a sector of employees in the
in the State of CA database. All of the data
is there for the world to see, surely if
public sector workers are so overpaid, you
can find at least one of them. $60k/yr for
a mid-career teacher, police officer or
skilled craftsman seems very reasonable,
even underpaid, to me. The majority of
local spending is on education, public
safety and public works, so that is where
the majority of employees are going to come
from. The rest of your comments are mostly
not worth replying to, but I will note that
if these jobs are so great, why aren't people
lining up to fill them? There is a chronic
shortage of police officers and teachers in
CA, hardly indication that they are overpaid.
http://http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.t03.htm
Note that total overtime pay is .4% of
overall salary, so your opinion that
overtime pay in the public sector is
ubiquitous is clearly wrong headed.
\_ Plug in "exective assistant" for the
Dept of Water Resources and you will see
pay varies from $39k to $48k. |
| 2008/7/3-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:50456 Activity:nil |
7/3 Anyone from Singapore here? What's the average salary roughly for a
software engineer with about 5yrs of experience over there? Thanks.
\_ I don't know about salaries, but canings are free.
\_ Is free S&M a taxable benefit in Singapore?
\_ I actually have some good recent salary info from there, because
we were thinking about hiring there. Email me if you want the
info. -ausman |
| 2008/6/19-23 [Computer/Companies/Google, Industry/Jobs] UID:50310 Activity:nil |
6/19 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/10/at-glassdoor-find-out-how-much-people-really-make-at-google-microsoft-yahoo-and-everywhere-else Google salary sucks. It's nowhere near the $150-$200k/year someone claims on motd. \_ Google has a really nice bonus package. \_ I think this is a Google recruiter http://s3.tinypic.com/23r4bdc.jpg \_ yeah gotta agree there. I know google guys who's yearly bonus is almost my total salary. \_ how typical are your friends @ google? or are you very poorly paid? |
| 2008/5/18-23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:49995 Activity:low |
5/18 My sister is majoring in Information Systems Management at UC Santa
Cruz (She flunked the math for CS), and is thinking about becoming a
sys or network admin. How does one learn that stuff? Are there any
good books? Speaking of which, does anyone need a summer intern
for such a position? -jrleek
\_ E-mail me her resume. I was told it's too late now, but if we like
her we can use her next summer. The next cycle starts in (I
believe) January. --dim
\_ jrleek, is she hot? If so, it's best you don't send her
to dimitrious.
\_ If she's a flake she's better off trying to find a low end
coding job. *In general* programmers go home at the end of the
day. Sysadmins *tend* to carry pagers, work 24/7 rotation on-call,
etc. And finally, there are different kinds of admins. Windows?
Unix? Networking? Office support? Engineering? Production?
Does she even have an interest in technology? If not, she'll be
happier in the short, mid and long run doing something else even
if it pays less at first. She won't advance in a tech field if she
has no interest in technology.
\_ I didn't mean to give the impression that she has no interest
in technology. And wacky sys admin hours and overwork would
probably suit her fine. She's not THAT kind of flake. -op
\_ System administration is a craft; it's learned by doing. Her best
bet would be to find a way to practice sysadmin skills. At Cal,
the OCF and CSUA provide such opportunities. Something similar
might exist at UCSC, or look for a community or non-profit that
needs someone to set up machines for them. -tom
\_ This is very good advice. She may need to volunteer for a while
to get the skills down, but she should dive in hands first and
hit up her big brother for more tips and hints when she hits the
inevitable wall. Believe it or not, there are entry-level
SysAdmin jobs, if you're willing to work for experience. --e-red
\_ Yes, but it's a little late to ask now. Next year? What year
is she?
\_ Yeah, I know it's late, but hope springs eternal. She was
expecting a programming internship, but didn't keep on it and
they found someone better. Which is not unusual for her.
She's a junior, she has a summer next year before she
graduates though. -jrleek
\_ We probably could have used her, but I cannot make a
budget request now. That had to be done a month ago or
more. It's hard to find good students, but I have some
concerns:
1) Why did she want a programming internship if she's
not intending to be a s/w engineer? That's a big red
flag for anyone hiring for IT positions that are not
developer positions.
2) Is she really as flaky as you are making her out to be?
Your description of her situation and how it came to
be does her no favors. Yes, she's young yadda yadda yadda.
\_ 1) The programming internship was offered by a relative.
And heck, right now she know more about programming
And heck, right now she knows more about programming
than administration. It's not like she knows what
it's really like to do either as a full time job.
2) Eh, as her older brother, I'm probably a little harsh,
but yeah, she can be kinda flaky. It think she'd
be fine at a job though. She has done TAing a such
things, that seems to have gone well.
but she tends not to follow up on things that she
isn't concentrating on right now. I think she'd
probably do ok at a real job, but isn't A-list
material.
but yeah, she can be kinda flaky. I think she'd
be fine at a job though. She has done TAing and such
things, and those seem to have gone well. |
| 2008/5/15-16 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:49947 Activity:nil |
5/15 Tired of CS? become a gopher trapper! (appropos of nothing)
http://www.thegophergetters.com/helpwanted.html
Man, pocket gophers have pretty big heads for their body size.
\_ Gopher Trapper is a terrible place to work at - ex-Gopher Trapper
\_ Gopher trapper is a terrible place to work at - ex-Gopher trapper
\_ I wonder if it's safe to eat your average garden gopher?
\_ I don't understand why so many ex Gopher Trappers are doing
non Gopher Trapping stuff when they stop Gopher Trapping.
\_ Big surprise, Gopher Trapping is better value than
\_ Big surprise, Gopher Trapping is a better value than
\_ I don't understand why so many ex Gopher trappers are doing
non Gopher trapping stuff when they stop Gopher trapping.
\_ Big surprise, Gopher trapping is a better value than
masturbating all day to Cuddy. |
| 2008/4/28-5/4 [Industry/Jobs] UID:49850 Activity:nil |
4/28 I'd like to find salary info for System Administrators in the
Los Angeles area based on years of expertise. I'd appreciate
suggestions on where to go.
\_ http://salary.com
http://www.sage.org/salsurv (for SAGE members, join SAGE)
http://www.sage.org/salsurv (for SAGE members) |
| 2008/3/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Industry/Jobs] UID:49594 Activity:nil |
3/28 HA HA HA
"Bush sees Opportunity for Renewed Platitudes in Iraq." |
| 2008/3/17-21 [Computer/SW/Security, Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:49482 Activity:nil |
3/17 http://market-ticker.denninger.net Former sysadmin says Fed measures not addressing root of problem, IBs/banks will eventually be taken to woodshed \_ Once again, who cares if he is a sysadmin? \_ It dovetails nicely with the background of most of the pontificators on the motd. What's not to like? We really need to get this guy a soda account! \_ If sysadmins had run Bear Sterns the company would still be solvent right now. \_ He's got tech skills. I've got tech skills. Therefore I care what he says about the economy...? Huh? He may be 100% on the mark but having tech skills does not make his writing on the economy any more interesting. |
| 2008/2/5-7 [Science, Industry/Jobs] UID:49069 Activity:nil |
2/4 http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/01/31/tech-salaries-on-the-rise-if-youre-male Salary data points for hotshot programmers. \_ Regurgitated TechCrunch anonymous postings don't qualify as "data" |
| 2008/1/24-2/2 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:49009 Activity:nil |
1/23 Recruiter question: Say a recruiter got me into a big company and
got paid for my head count, and I've already stayed 1 year
(which is the pre-req for most recruiters to get the head count
bonus). Later I leave the company for a bunch of failed startups
for a while and eventually a second recruiter enticed me to go
BACK to the company again, will the second recruiter get paid
for getting me back?
\_ Of course! |
| 2008/1/18-23 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:48972 Activity:high |
1/18 Slide raises 50M on 500M valuation: http://www.csua.org/u/kiq Notably, the money came from wall street investors, not the valley. Also, we're hiring. -dans \_ historically how many people actually get jobs/employees via motd? my point is http://monster.com probably gives a better hit ratio \_ do sysadms get less/more options than developers? \_ I'm not sure. Organizationally, the ops branch of the hierarchy is parallel to dev. One thing that makes it hard to compare is that our ops team is much smaller than our dev team. -dans \_ half a billion? The crazy is strong. \_ the real question is how much are you worth TODAY? \_ It's all just paper money and AMT tax absent a liquidity event. The direction this suggests we're headed in is more important to me. -dans \_ ok, you're hiring. How *competitive* are you wrt to stock options now that you got more funding that'll dilute options? \_ If you know enough to ask that, then you know that dilution would be considered secret and subject to NDA. I have no complaints, and I think it's still a good opportunity or I wouldn't be promoting it. -dans \_ alright let's say I join what % of ownership do I have, 0.00000001% for an engineer 2/3/4? What will that amount to when it's acquired? 1/2 mil? 1 mil? 10 mil? \_ Yes, I understand that. No company with half a clue would disclose those numbers to you without making you sign an NDA. If you're interested, send me a resume. -dans \_ "... a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a pie!" \_ We can do better than the Richter Scales suggest. -dans \_ I would love to own 1/100th of 1% of GOOG. \_ Um, did you just compare GOOG to Slide? It is to laugh! \_ No, I was replying to the person who said that a fraction of a fraction of a percent is a waste of time owning. Was that you? Can you follow a conversation in English? Heck, even 1/100th of 1% of Slide is worth 50k, which isn't chicken scratch. \_ 50k isn't really much at all. If you are working at a startup, putting everything you've got into it, probably getting less than market value for your work, AND you win the IPO lottery (even at a good company with smart people the odds are against you) 50k is pretty pathetic. You should be able to make that kind of money by working those overtime hours on a contracting gig over a year or so. \_ This is good general advice, but several points don't apply to Slide: - Our salary and benefits are at or near market (though we don't do 401k matching). - At this point, our odds of a successful outcome are significantly better than a typical startup. - I would expect a new hire to get appreciably more than 1/100th of a point. -dans \_ Don't stomp my changes please. \_ I didn't. -dans \_ Unless you are one of those spoiled rich kids that went to school on mommy and daddies dime, your first $50k is *huge*. It allowed me to pay off my credit card debts, my student loans and was most of my first down payment. Plus, this company will be worth much more if and when it goes public. Also, 1/100 of 1% is a very pessimistic number, it is probably more like that amount per year. -self made $M \_ 50K is a lot of money. 50k on a long (4 year vest?) high risk bet that requires you to work 60+ hour weeks however is not a lot of money. There are easier, faster, and more reliable ways to make 50K in this industry. I'm not saying that's what people at Slide are going to get, I'm just saying if that IS all you get if you spend 2-4 years taking a small startup public then you got screwed. \_ 50k on paper. It doesn't mean anything unless it's liquid. -dans \_ Actually it does, but unless you have taken a lot of finance I cannot probably explain it to you. A big change in your real net worth is important though, even if it is not liquid. \_ It might matter to me in practice if, e.g. I wanted to use my paper wealth as leverage, but I've seen lots of otherwise smart people get burned trying and failing to do just that. If you've experienced a big change in your real net worth, how did you use what you learned in your finance classes to your advantage? -dans \_ I could see this if, e.g. you were to try to leverage your paper wealth, but I have little interest in doing so since I know many people who got burned by trying and failing to do so. Have you experienced a big change in your real net worth? Did you use what you learned in your finance classes to your advantage? -dans \_ It should change your risk profile and cause you to shift investment assets to compensate for the gain, to stay properly diversified. In short. |
| 2007/12/10-14 [Reference/BayArea, Industry/Jobs] UID:48776 Activity:kinda low |
12/10 For people in the LA area, what city has the most/best tech
startup companies? Pasadena? Santa Monica? Burbank?
\_ Yes. OC, too.
\_ MySpace is in Beverly Hills. Though they're also opening a San
Francisco office RSN. -dans
\_ Hello there, the 'myspace san francisco office' is ONLY
sales dudes. No tech guys. I mean it. None. Unless
you are a sales dude! I really doubt sales dudes post to
the motd.
\_ You probably have better information than I do. My,
entirely pulled out of my ass, speculation is that they're
using the SF office to house the MySpace platform team.
Also, if they're just sales, why are they hiring engineers
from LookSmart? -dans
\_ Because they're taking over the looksmart space and it
came with the engineers? |
| 2007/11/13-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:48633 Activity:moderate |
11/13 okay maggots.. free facebook hosting for 1 year
to first 3500 facebook developers .. joyent
http://www.joyent.com/developers/facebook
\_ This sounds interesting. If anyone uses it, I'd be curious to hear
about your experience, particularly if you can compare and contrast
to Amazon's S3/E2C services. Also, if you're an indie app
developer with a cool app, check out:
http://www.unethicalblogger.com/indie_app_promotion_on_top_friends
Basically, Slide promotes indie-apps on Top Friends for free.
-dans
\_ why do we need another middle man? fbml is enough
\_ I don't think you understand what's being offered. Top
Friends has over 20M users, and we will cross-promote your
indie app free of charge. I don't see how that makes us a
middle man. I suppose you could *pay* our competitor lots of
money to do the same thing. -dans
\_ Can the motd have a "no blatant pimping of your company"
rule?
\_ Why? To protect your unsullied playground of juvenile crap?
To promote more anonymous pimping of companies? -dans
\_ We got the message about your company. I'd rather
see more unsullied juvenile crap than see the motd turn
into a giant dotcom ad zone. Let it go. Anyone who was
going to apply already has. Now you just look desperate,
and that's always ugly. Hire a technical recruiter. -!pp
\_ We have a technical recruiter. She's really cool. Not
everyone reads the motd every day or even every week.
If pimping companies bothers you so much, why didn't
you bitch about someone pimping facebook and joyent?
Also, how the hell do you read a statement that
effectively says, "Hey, we will promote your app for
free", as "Come work for us?" -dans
\_ I think the difference is: (a) you are extremely
annoying, and (b) sheer fucking volume: a huge
chunk of the motd was devoted to you going on and on
about that startup. Nobody cares. -- ilyas
\_ This is precisely my point. The issue has
nothing to do with promotion; its entirely
personal. In a nutshell, I piss off certain
\_ Piss off is
(surprise surprise) taking yourself far
too seriously. Eye rolling derision is
probably much closer to how people feel
about you.
\_ Really? Explain the vitriol? -dans
motd.personalities, they will flame me regardless
of the content of what I post, and I don't care.
P.S. Who made you (or tom or psb, etc, etc.) the
arbiter of who does and does not care? -dans
\_ Good marketing isn't annoying.
\_ Since tom, ilyas, and psb account for a
majority of motd posters, I'd say they are
the arbiters of who does and does not care.
Just how many people do you think really
read this stuff anyway?
\_ You do realize that there are lots of
people who lurk on the motd, but don't
actually post? As far as I know, neither
tom nor psb write code. This being the
Computer Science Undergraduate Association,
not the Computer Sysadmin Undergraduate
Association, I don't take alumni who
graduated (or neglected to graduate) over a
decade ago, work for the UC or one of its
research affiliates, and don't write code
too seriously. At least, not when it comes
to hiring software developers in private
industry. -dans
\_ How many resumes have you gotten from CSUA
people in the last month or so? Or do I need
to join your company and sign an NDA to get
that information?
\_ Enough to make the effort worthwhile. And,
seriously, do you know any company startup
or otherwise that publishes detailed stats
on its recruiting efforts? Seriously, are
you insane? -dans
\_ your app build on an app that is built upon a platform
that is on the internet.. ceases to be viral.. cancer-
nuttin but large tumor growing... |
| 2007/11/3-8 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:48528 Activity:kinda low |
11/2 Alright I'm interested dans but how many hours do you work a
day and do you actually have a life outside your dot com?
\_ Everyone at Slide works very hard. I probably average about 60
\_ Everyone at Slide works very hard. I probably average about 160
hours a week, though the last two weeks have been crazy because
\_ Really, 22 1/2 hours a day? Why not go whole hog
and claim you work 300 hours a week?
I had to ship code in time to demo at Google's Campfire One event
where they officially announced OpenSocial:
http://code.google.com/campfire
Yes I have a life outside of work. I'm currently dating a couple
people, though I do jokingly refer to Slide as my mistress. I
usually manage to make it out for drinks with friends at least
twice a week. I don't sleep nearly as much as I'd like to, and
I still have boxes that I haven't unpacked since I moved apartments
several months ago. -dans
\_ In 5 years we'll either all be working for dans, or be dead by
his hand.
\_ I'm pretty live and let live. Keep in mind that,
statistically, most startups fail. Personally, I think Slide
is at an inflection point where the odds of a successful
outcome are appreciably better than a 'typical' startup, but
we're still small enough that joining now could still yield a
great return, if we succeed. -dans
\_ I'm pretty live and let live. Also, keep in mind,
statistically speaking, most startups fail. Personally, I
think Slide is at an inflection point where the odds of a
successful outcome are appreciably better than a 'typical'
startup, but we're still small and risky enough that joining
now could still yield a great return, if we succeed. -dans
\_ I should amend this to say that a startup that offers good
work/life balance is probably doomed. -dans
\_ I read the touchy feely NYTIMES article about your founder.
A question, the dude made a 100 million. Why is he working?
I'll spend his money for him if that's the problem.
\_ You should ask him, but, if I were to speculate, it's just his
personality. If he's not working eighteen hours a day, he's not
happy. I know a number of successful entrepreneurs like this,
e.g. Adam Sah, one of the Inktomi kids from Berkeley, now the
impresario behind iGoogle Gadgets. -dans
\_ Do you really talk like this in person?
\_ Like what? I guess that's a yes. -dans
\_ Yes he does. It's pretty damn funny too. |
| 2007/10/27-11/1 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:48462 Activity:nil |
10/27 Anyone have experience with phone 66 Punch block wiring? I have a
small office I need to fix some phone jacks on--and I have no idea how
the rows of pins are connected electrically, or how to safely branch a
single line from the phone company into multiple jacks in the office.
\_ Cabling by David Barnett ; David Groth ; Jim McBee
http://www.bookpool.com/sm/0782143318 |
| 2007/9/14-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:48072 Activity:low |
9/14 Hey Tom or whomightknow, how much does something like this:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/sad/422348976.html pay ?
It says "commensurate w/ experience" but is cal really going
to pay 6 figures for this?
\_ It's an odd listing. It probably means they'll hire it as
PA III or PA IV depending on who they get in the pool. -tom
\_ They didn't really say they would pay market rates.
\_ Given they want experience as team lead and project management,
it will probably go as a pa3/4 as tom said but it is chock full
of low end crap like writing html and configuring apache. It
will very likely pay over 100k to the right person but not much
more. If the job itself sounds interesting to you, then go for
it and see what happens. At worst you'll waste some interview
time and won't take the job. Don't apply for UC jobs for the
money, there isn't any. -!tom but knows a bit about cal, also
\_ While I had not heard of this particular job opening, I doubt
it'll pay six figures. Also, this particular position will suck
out souls of lesser individuals. |
| 2007/9/13-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:48052 Activity:kinda low |
9/13 I think this thread is hilarious:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2205007948&topic=12544
Someone totally needs to start a "Buy Emily a Belt" group. -dans
\_just bumps me to my profile, do i need to be in the berkeley
group to see it or something?
\_ Hurm. It's the developer discussion board. You may need to
have the developer application installed. Try hitting:
http://www.facebook.com/developers |
| 2007/9/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:48033 Activity:nil |
9/12 Woz sells 350Z to raise money for Cal
http://www.hotswap.com/products/view/13e9b64bad82 |
| 2007/9/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Industry/Jobs] UID:47988 Activity:low |
9/10 cop gone bad (or always bad)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2715792117793977759&
\_ yes, all cops are always bad automatically. any bad thing one
cop does, they all do. sheesh.
\_ My anecdotal experience of LA cops: (a) fat, (b) wouldn't lift a
finger to help you, (c) love to hit people without reason. -- ilyas
\_ my personal experience with ~ six LAPD and UCPD cops over the
years: professional, polite, helpful. CHP cops on the other
hand ...
\_ What's the loud annoying clicking noise? Also, what is the law
here; are you allowed to refuse to answer questions? I guess this
kid isn't too smart trying to debate stuff with a cop. Just shut
up, kiss the cop's ass, and he'd probably not have to go through
that.
Also, what is the law
here; are you allowed to refuse to answer questions? I guess this
kid isn't too smart trying to debate stuff with a cop. Just shut
up, kiss the cop's ass, and he'd probably not have to go through
that. |
| 2007/9/2-7 [Industry/Startup, Industry/Jobs] UID:47874 Activity:high |
9/2 what are the hot new startups in SF nowadays?
\_ sixapart, hi5, bebo, digg
\_ I agree with you there with bebo... but why would you want
to work at 6a? they don't pay very much, all their drama
is all over the internet, i actually have a lot of inside
info about this company.
\_ He didn't ask where was a good place to work, did he?
I forgot, I should have added Linden Lab, though I personally
would not consider working there, they are a "hot new
startup."
\_ You're right, I just assumed he would want to work
somewhere that didn't suck. My mistake!
\_ sixapart is definitely not new, and arguably not hot. Unless
you think of imploding bodies as hot. hi5 maybe, bebo yes,
digg yes. I'd add slide to the list, though I'm obviously
biased, and you should ping me if you want to work here. -dans
\_ What do these companies do? I haven't heard of any of them.
\_ sixapart: originally built around MoveableType blogging
software. Sells MoveableType as well as hosted version
of MoveableType called TypePad. Acquired Livejournal
several years ago.
\_ hi5: yet another social network.
\_ Not just any, the 11th most visited site on the Interweb-
won't-ever-amount-to-anything-thingy.
\_ bebo: yet another social network. Big in the UK. Rumors
were flying about a Yahoo buyout a few months back, but
this did not happen.
\_ digg: collaborative news/content sharing and filtering
site, basically Slashdot for the masses. Has a *lot* of
users.
\_ slide: we make embeddable widgets and applications that
people like to add to their social network profiles and
web sites. We have a *lot* of users.
-dans
\_ Thanks for the responses. No offense to you, but
these startups seem to be rather lame. I wouldn't
want to get a PhD in CS in order to code for social
networking web sites. Is there anything really
groundbreaking or novel out there?
\_ Why not come with an idea yourself? (Not trying to
be snarky). I had what I thought was a really
\_ Why not come up with an idea yourself? (Not trying
to be snarky). I had what I thought was a really
good idea for a startup, but honestly I don't have
the courage to bet 5 years of my life on it. -- ilyas
\_ If you fail, it will probably take you less than
five years to fail. Also, if you consider
factors other than money, e.g. experience, it's
not a zero-sum proposition. -dans
\_ yeah, I'm sure working infinite hours for
shit money in a failed venture is a great
positive life experience.
\_ Like you would know. -dans
\_ I know. It sucks.
\_ I respectfully disagree, but then your
experience was probably different than
mine. -dans
\_ Believe it or not, it is considered really
great on your resume if you have started
your own company and failed.
\_ I believe it. I also believe that
a failed startup is a huge drain on
your life and there are plenty of other
productive things you could be doing
with your life that don't involve
such suckitude.
\_ Only a fool would enter into a
startup expecting to fail. Also, as
I mentioned in my comment above, the
experience is not necessarily one
that can be generalized as
'suckitude'. -dans
\_ 90% of startups fail, so only a
fool would enter into one expecting
to succeed. -tom
_________________/
\_ Don't be a douche bag. Quoting cute statistics
that you probably can't reliably source doesn't
say much for your credibility on the subject.
Last I checked, you never left the cradle of
academia. -dans
\_ Yet somehow, two of the three
startups I worked for went
public. -ausman
\_ Last I checked, I had 10 years of industry
experience before I started working at
Berkeley, and you had no fucking clue. Let
me check again...yup, still true. -tom
\_ 10 years where, doing what, if you don't
mind sharing?
\_ I do mind sharing personal details with
anonymous cowards. Send me mail if you
really care. -tom
\_ Whatever. You made a claim about
your tremendous clueful experience.
If you aren't willing to back that
up, then just whatever, as usual.
Either way, changing tapes 15 years
ago has nothign to do with the
world of industry today.
\_ I'd argue that, unless you're going to spin you're
thesis into a startup, you wouldn't want to get a
PhD in CS in order to code for most startups. Since
I haven't worked for any social networking sites, I
can't speak directly from experience on the relative
interestingness of the problems they face. As for
Slide, widgets may not sound like something terribly
PhD in CS in order to code for most startups.
Since
I haven't worked for any social networking sites,
I can't speak directly from experience on the
relative interestingness of the problems they
face. As for Slide, widgets may not sound
like something terribly
interesting, but, having seen how the sausage is
made, there are interesting challenges. In
particular, gracefully scaling to support the volume
of traffic we handle is non-trivial. It also raises
the question, what kind of interesting conclusions
and relations can you draw from such a huge data
set? -dans
P.S. I think Google's BigTable is pretty novel, but
it requires several layers of Google infrastructure
to recreate. I'm curious to see if couchdb, which
looks superficially similar to BigTable, might serve
the same purpose. Okay, its not a startup, but it's
groundbreaking.
\_ If a bomb took out myspace, facebook, bebo,
slide, friendster, digg, no one important
notice.
\_ *shrug*. Are you trying to make a point or
just trolling? Personally, I think the ideal
\_ No, I think my statement is 100% accurate
\_ Like who, Senator Ted "the internet is a
series of tubes" Stevens? -dans
\_ No one important cares about the
internets anyway. It is all just
a big waste of time and will never
amount to anything.
of the net as a democratic medium is a
worthwhile one to shoot for. I guess you
feel otherwise. -dans |
| 2007/8/20 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:47664 Activity:low 66%like:47639 80%like:47673 |
08/20 It's the electrical engineer theme song:
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=668b10cb1188d40d3370 |
| 2007/7/26-8/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:47431 Activity:moderate |
7/26 [ Restored ]
Don't know if it's the weather or what, but I am just damn tired.
Anyone else out there in a funk, or should I get screened for Lyme
disease?
\_ I feel run-down too, but I live in NM.
\_ I definitely do.
\_ Yeah, I've been tired the past couple of weeks also. I figured it
was because of the humidity.
\_ you should get a dog!
\_ I am damn tired too, but that is b/c I just finished the last
day of the bar exam.
\_ Congrats! How'd that go?
\_ Well, I survived. Hopefully I passed, but I won't
know until Nov 17.
\_ Please let us know how this goes, as well as whether you
feel it was worth going through law school, etc. I keep
being told that engineers do well in law school. Tempted
to go down that road myself....
\_ I really enjoyed LS despite the difficulty. For
me, it was a great career move, esp. considering
the *huge* salary jump and increased job security.
Some engineers and scientists do do well in LS,
but I can't say that every engineer or scientist
does well. Some people have a hard time adjusting
to the "socratic" method and the reality that your
grade in the class is based on a single final exam.
\_ Is it really that huge a salary jump? Mid-career
programmers make $100k, except for the very few
partners in big firms, don't mid-career lawyers
make a similar amount?
programmers make $100-120k, except for the very few
partners in big firms, don't starting lawyers
make less than that?
make about that?
\_ The starting salary for a 1st year is
between $135K-$160K plus bonus at many
large firms. Partners at most firms
make crazy money.
\_ http://salary.com says you're about $40k too high
with your estimate for SF.
\_ I don't know what http://salary.com says, but
I do know what I and my classmates are
making in the south bay.
\_ Perhaps http://salary.com is incorrect b/c
most of my classmates got offers in
that range (and I didn't even go to
a very good LS).
\_ http://salary.com has always come in low in
my experience.
\_ In my experience it has been
accurate and I have known the salary
of the two dozen or so people I have
managed throughout my career.
\_ That sounds circular. "Salary.com
is accurate so I pay at http://salary.com
levels".
\_ Only perhaps because you think
that managers are the primary
determinator of their direct
reports salaries. I never got
to build a team from scratch,
so I always inherited a bunch
of people with salary already
in place. Sometimes I was able
to use http://salary.com to justify
getting HR to do a market
analysis, but that was always to
move salaries up, not down.
\_ Where were you that the mgr
had no/little say? Also,
when you had a new hire did
you determine their offer or
did HR? If it was you did
you use http://salary.com?
\_ There are probably more Google millionaires
than "partners" in the Bay Area. Your chance
of actually making partner are quite small and
you will bust your ass trying to make it.
\_ I agree that there are probably many
more google millionaires in the the
bay area than partners and that I
will probably never make partner.
But, for me even the 1st year salary
is far more than I could hope to make
using my mediocre programming skills.
I didn't go to LS to get rich, I just
more google millionaires in the bay
area than partners and that I will
probably never make partner. But, for
me even the 1st year salary is far
more than I could hope to make using
my mediocre programming skills. I
didn't go to LS to get rich, I just
wanted to buy some job security and
get a moderate salary increase.
\_ You probably did the right thing then,
especially if you end up enjoying your
new job better.
\_ That's the key. He might make
a little more money (and after
factoring in law school costs
and lost wages for 3 years it
might be the same) but he has to
enjoy law. A lot of lawyers find
it boring, but it pays too well
to quit - just like a lot of s/w
engineers. However, I have read
surveys which show lawyers to be
among the careers most dissatisfied
with their jobs. By the way,
there is no way any 1st year
lawyers from anywhere except
Harvard are making $135-160K.
Your classmates are lying to you.
Lawyers? Lie? Naw!
You are right re the cost of LS. It is not _/
cheap and may not work out economically for
everyone. LS worked out fairly well for me
b/c I worked part-time and got a scholarship.
(The firm salary during 2d year summer was
quite nice as well).
I suppose that if you are making $100K+ as a
coder and have decent job security, there is
really no reason to switch. Like I said, I
was a mediocre coder and was not making the
big bucks like people at google, &c., so LS
made sense for me.
Re 1st year salaries, here are some numbers
for the bay area:
Palo Alto: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2hpl5x
SF: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2x7lx8
(both links from http://infirmation.com)
Also, I was offered in the range I mentioned,
and I have no reason to think that others in
my class were not offered the same. Finally,
I went to fairly low ranked LS, not Harvard
or the like.
\_ Nope, not tired, though I am starting to feel like I need
a vacation. |
| 2007/6/12-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46924 Activity:nil |
6/12 Do QAs make less money than software engineers? Say both a QA and a
software engineer have five years of experience, how to the typical
salaries compare? Thx.
\_ Generally yes, but my understanding is the gap goes away once
you get into management level jobs.
\_ Then you're not QA or engineer. You're "manager".
\_ Depends on the company. Cisco and Sun both paid QA and Development
roughly the same (w/ 5-10K) for people in the same grade. Though
there were a lot more MTS4 and Staff Eng. in Development. |
| 2007/6/11-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46919 Activity:nil |
6/11 Action Item, Professional Superhero
http://www.fatalexception.org/action_item.html |
| 2007/6/11-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46916 Activity:high |
6/11 Mid-range Unix/Linux sysadmin job available on campus, working with
the Math, Physics, and other scientific departments within L&S.
Apply through the crappy campus jobs system
http://jobs.berkeley.edu, job #006645. -tom
\_ What is the salary range? What would it be for a senior?
\_ It's a PA III job; realistic starting salary
(up to mid-point of PA III range) is $58-$82K. A senior
sysadmin would be PA IV, starting at $70-$100K. -tom
\_ $85k mid point for a senior sysadmin? What real senior or
even most mid level unix people would take that job?
Seriously, those are the rates? Wow....
\_ No, $100K is the midpoint, but at the university it's
hard to get hired above the midpoint, so I avoid listing
the entire salary range for the position. -tom
\_ No, $100K is the midpoint of PA IV, but at the university
it's hard to get hired above the midpoint, so I avoid
listing the entire salary range for the position. -tom
\_ $100k for a senior unix person is still really low.
Is there some other non-obvious benefit to working
there?
\_ Why do you say $100K is really low? Most salary
calculators have $100K as about right, even for
SFBA. What do you think it should pay in order
to be competitive? $180K?
\_ The calculators always come in low. If your
salary is spot on with a calculator you're
underpaid.
\_ That has not been my experience and I have
supervised people, so I have knowledge of
dozens of peoples real salaries over the
last five years. What industry are you in?
\_ Tech industry. Maybe your company just
pays low. Do you target "the 50% mark" for
hires? You'll get "50% quality" people.
\_ In my experience, the best quality
people aren't the ones primarily
motivated by high salaries. -tom
\_ Your experience seems limited to a
place where all salaries are low so
of course you don't meet quality
people who can command a higher
salary. They never applied. If you
can truly get quality people with low
salary offers then more power to you
but from your comment about how it
would be better if it was easier to
get rid of the dead weight that does
not seem to be the case.
\_ I worked in the industry for
over 8 years, so no, my experience
is not limited to UC. And the
issues of hiring new good people
and getting rid of old dead weight
are completely separate. -tom
\_ There are really awesome retirement benefits.
So good that you don't need to contribute to
a 401k, so that is worth another 15% or so.
\_ I don't think this is true. The mandatory
contribution is not enough especially with the
recent performance since they outsourced the
fund management. While if you work at UC for
a really long time you do get a pension-like
compensation, "long time" is the key phrase.
In addition to the generally higher salary,
other companies often provide 401k-matching
and whatnot. I think the advantage is the
campus culture/environment. Most of my
coworkers can take a day off or work from home
on short notices when their child is sick and
such.
\_ It is the pension that really rocks. It is
worth quite a bit, if you do the math, but
yes, you have to plan to be at the UC for
most of your career for it to make sense.
At least 20 years. As for taking a day off
when your child is sick, isn't that true for
most employers?
\_ Okay, a sick child may be a bad example.
But in general, the flexibility of a
university job is superior to most US
businesses. While pension for a lifer
is certainly a good chunk of money one
can depend on, the higher earning while
working at non-UC can be well-invested
to close this gap. Oh, and I guess job
security can also be considered an
advantage.
\_ Also: Generally UC jobs are 40 hours
per week or thereabouts. Plus you're
working for an institution with a
meaningful mission, and you're not
going to get outsourced to Bangalore.
\_Bengaluru
Make sure you're comparing apples to
apples. -tom
\_ No one has ever been laid off from
UC?
\_ Layoffs are exceedingly rare. -tom
\_ Much to the dismay of the
taxpayers :-)
\_ Frankly, I think the
organization would be better
off if staff had less
"tenure," but I don't see
it changing any time soon.
-tom
\_ Are we distinguishing between
layoffs and firings? I knew a
woman at UC that was being fired.
She had over a year notice. Not
only that, but she had access to
employee records, including her
own! When someone went to retrieve
it from her, she went into a room
with her own file relatively full,
closed the door, then later came
out with the file, no longer as
full. Obviously, something is
broken, but without a central
campus-wide HR, that's not gonna
happen anytime soon.
\_ Stripped her own file? Cool.
Anyone actually do anything
about that or is that the one
year notice thing?
\_ I think there will be a lot more
outsourcing, even of gov't jobs,
in the form of contracts to
provide services (e.g. storage,
CPU, web hosting, etc.). IT
managers want you to buy services
off of a menu and the fact that
people in Bangalore are 90% of
\-Bengaluru
the operations providing the
service is not relevant. The only
safe gov't jobs are DOD and DOE
jobs. I wouldn't lump UC in with
those.
\_ No, DoD jobs are not safe
either. I know >3 DoD
people who have got booted,
and my acquaitence base is
not very wide.
\_ Fired for sucking or their
division laid off?
\_ DoD jobs are safe from
*outsourcing*. It's
possible the work can go
away entirely, but that's
something else. Any jobs
that require security
clearances are safe for now
as far as outsourcing. That
does not include most of UC. |
| 2007/5/25-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46755 Activity:moderate |
5/25 I'm looking for pointers on how to recruit excellent junior/mid level
computer scientists or programmers. For those of you who have hired
people, what is a good way to go about recruiting? Basically we want
really smart people who know and love CS and programming. Money is
not a constraint, but we don't want people just in it for the money.
Google seems to have a good way of doing this, but I don't know if
there methods apply to much smaller organizations. Thanks.
\_ Google hires excellent people by hiring a lot of people and letting
probability take care of the rest.
\_ I would start getting your employees to refer someone they know to
come in and talk to you. Or if you have good/trusted friends in the
IT industry, see if they can refer someone to you as well. Good people
hire good people. (most of the time).
IT industry, see if they can refer someone to you as well. Good
people hire good people. (most of the time).
\_ Myth. All people hire people they like. Not everyone knows or
likes good people. If this myth were true then good people would
be running all these companies and we know that isn't true.
\_ Google is struggling to hire anyone decent. There is no reason for
a non-PhD to go to Google these days and it shows in their
increasingly desperate hiring behavior. As far as money goes, 99%
of people are 'in it for the money' because there are lots of things
they could be doing they would enjoy more that don't pay as much yet
there's their resume in front of you. Ask yourself if you would
do the same job if you got paid half as much, no options, etc.
\_ I wouldn't be doing the same job if the compensation were
halved, but there isn't any other job I would want unless the
compensation was more than twice what I get now. That's what I
meant by not in it for the money.
\_ Fair enough. Just curious, are you married? Have kids?
Mortgage?
\_ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html
My medium-size company has arrangements with some recruiters who are not
employees to find good candidates based on resumes, referrals, etc.
employees to find good candidates based on their resumes, or references, etc.
They will figure out what you are looking for. Then you have to screen
and interview a ton of people to find the ones worth hiring.
and interview a ton of people to find the good ones.
\_ Very good link. Thanks for posting that. If only more hiring
managers would follow his advice. |
| 2007/4/12-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46267 Activity:low |
4/11 Going to San Diego for 2-3 days with my gf, what are some things
we *must* do there?
\_ sea kayak -tom
\_ op, don't get too far away from the crowd. i attended a wake
a couple years ago for a 20-something engineer whose kayak
overturned and didn't get help for a few hours and died from
hypothermia. kayak drifted away, 1 survivor. channel islands.
\_ That is horrible! I'd hate to be the engineer who debugs
a deadman's code. That's horrible.
\_ Visit San Diego Zoo
\_ Seconded. It is one of the best zoos in the world. --erikred
\_ I actually live in San Diego and found it very overrated and
just thought it was"ok", about the same as Sacramento's (where
just thought it was "ok", about the same as Sacramento's (where
I'm originally from). The Wild Animal Park is much better and a
different experience, best described as a Zoo w/o cages. Also be
sure to check out La Jolla Cove, La Jolla Cliffs (Glider Port),
Coronado Island/ Beach (always ranked in the top 10 US)
\_ San Diego and Sacramento Zoo similar? Are you crazy? I
agree to go to the Wild Animal Park, though - especially
if they still have the 'safaris' where you can drive up
to the animals with a guide and help feed them. The park
the SD Zoo is in is very nice and worth spending time
in. It contains some museums, too, including an aircraft
museum, a natural history museum, and an art museum.
\_ SD Zoo is much nicer than any zoo I've ever been to, and
it has the nicest Koala exhibit. I also agree that the
Wild Animal Park is very good as well. If you can only
choose one thing, I would go to the Zoo. If you have been
to the Zoo before, I would go to the Wild Animal Park.
\_ Although I disagree with your assessment of the SD Zoo, I
wholeheartedly agree with you about the Wild Animal Park.
It's in Escondido, though, which makes it a bit of a slog
from SD downtown. Well worth it, if you can make it. --e.red
\_ I lived in San Diego for 2 years and I can honestly say that there
are no *must* do things there. But Balboa Park is quite nice,
the beaches are all great, especially La Jolla Cove and there is
a pleasant walkable downtown. -ausman
\_ Legoland. |
| 2007/4/9-11 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46238 Activity:kinda low |
4/9 I get to pick my own title "within reason". I'd like to pick whatever
will be most useful on my resume in the future without limiting my
future options too much. I will be the senior programmer and
"go to guy" in my group, but without anyone reporting to me. Some
possible adjectives: "platform, 3D, services"
\_ "Software Architect", a very high technical non-managerial title.
\_ Agreed. It implies you're decisions are followed by others,
\_ Agreed. It implies your decisions are followed by others,
but you're not a manager/team lead.
\_ How about Principal Engineer? Suggests a high degree of technical
ability and responsibility.
\_ I suggest using Principal Engineer only if you have 5+ years
industry experience, not including high school and internships.
The title connotes a steady elevation from Engineer -> Sr.
Engineer -> Staff Engr -> Sr Staff Engr -> Principal Engineer.
\_ My former employer's ranks go like Engr -> Sr. Engr -> Lead
Engr -> Staff Engr -> Sr Staff Engr -> Principal Engr -> Sr.
Principal engr -> (probably) Architect.
\_ I assumed that OP was past the Member of Tech. Staff/Eng.
stage and was at least 10+ years experience. I agree w/
you if OP is less than 10 years experience. - former staff eng
\_ if op is asking motd, this would imply they don't have
10+ yrs
\_ because they're asking the motd or because they're on
the motd at all?
\_ "Lead Engineer, in X"
\- to me "software architect" smell more of smoke and vapor
than "principal engineer", "senior engineer" etc.
i mean if you are really applying for a cto/technogist/
visionary type position what you call yourself isnt going to
matter that much. also you dont want to necessarily come
across as over qualified unless you really are going for
cto,vp eng type positions. i mean it's tough to go from
"distinguished <> fellow" to "senior programmer". is "member
of the technical staff" now commonly understood that it doesnt
mean bottle washer/tape monkey? a lot of people i've met dont
seem to know what that is.
\_ "Supreme Chancellor" seems reasonable. That or "Dear Leader".
I mean if they are dumb enough to give you the choice, reach for
the stars. Disclaimer: not responsible for loss of employment.
\_ Dear Leader has a long and distinguished history. Given the
rest of the advice here, maybe Dear Principal Software Architect
is what OP is looking for. |
| 2007/4/9-12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:46237 Activity:low 50%like:46150 |
4/8 fyi no new mail coming in
\_ obUseSodaOnlyForMotd
\_ embarrassing.. Google recruiter had 2 of my resumes .. one
was with my csua email account (which i like because it
showed off berkeley) and the other with another acct..
He asked me why did you move your email to gmail when
having the http://berkeley.edu address is better for your resume
I told him because the csua email was too unreliable..
He told me. .that's why we like to hire stanford people.
\_ I heard that those jerks don't like to hire people who can't
indent one's code either.
\_ well you could always get a <DEAD>cal.berkeley.edu<DEAD> or
link:alum.berkeley.edu and forward it to gmail.
\_ And you told him, "If you can't see I graduated from Berkeley on
my resume without having it as my email address you're not smart
enough to hire me, thanks". Right? Anyway, why would you want
to work for Google at this point in their history anyway? Do you
have a PhD? If not, I see no reason to go there.
\_ Related: It is likely that starting next year, students will
be able to keep their @berkeley.edu addresses for life (as
forwarding addresses). -tom
\_ That's cool. Who runs this program and how do we sign up when
it's ready? Thanks!
\_ Right now it's only an agreement in principle. I expect
the way it will work is that when you put yourself on the
degree list, you'll get asked for a forwarding email address.
University Relations is very interested in keeping in
touch with young alumni. -tom
\_ They're interested in keeping touch with all Alumni. Or
so the numberous requests for donations I get each year
so the numerous requests for donations I get each year
would seem to indicate. --erikred
\_ Well, of course. But if they lose them in the first
five years, they rarely get them back. They want to
"build lifelong relationships" so that you'll donate
once you're old enough to have earned money. -tom
\_ Good point. --erikred
\_ I graduated. Do they plan to have a way for senile grads
to signup?
\_ At the very least, you'll be able to do
@cal.berkeley.edu. Dunno about @berkeley.edu. -tom
\_ Thanks tom. Please keep us informed. |
| 2007/3/23-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:46073 Activity:low |
3/23 My boss just gave his 2 weeks and his boss is freaking out a bit. What
is the ideal amount of time to wait before asking for a raise?
\_ Are you going to ask your boss or his boss?
\_ His boss.
\_ Don't ask for a raise. Ask for his job and salary (which is almost
certainly at least 35% higher than yours). Explain how you're
prepared to take over, ready to move up, solve problems, and the
time is right. The one thing all managers want to hear is that
someone else has solved their problem for them. Be that solution.
Don't be the money grubber who adds to his woes asking for a raise
with the implied threat of quitting if you don't get it.
\_ I agree with the ask for your bosses job part, but you are
kidding yourself if you think the average manager makes at
least 35% more than their line subordinates. 15-20% is more
like it.
\_ I think this depends on many variables. I do know that
I saw my old boss' paycheck once and he made 35%
more than I did at the time and I was one of the higher
paid people underneath him. A lot depends on your
organization, though. Some have 40 levels of management
and in some you report directly to the CEO.
and in some you report directly to the CEO. I doubt
my current boss makes 35% more than I do, but she's
relatively inexperienced. I had a really senior manager
once who charged to some of my tasks and based on
the burn rate he made a lot more than 35% more than I
did. He had been in his job for 40+ years and I think
his high salary was one reason he was the casualty
of a layoff.
\_ In year 2000 I (engineer) made $90k and my immediate boss (VP
Engineering in a startup) made $150k.
\_ Do you think it is typical that a line engineer is
supervised by a VP? |
| 2007/3/13-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45952 Activity:low |
3/13 Slide is hiring! See: http://www.slide.com/static/jobs for details. We have smart people. We have plans for total world domination including orbital lasers and robot monkey armies. We have interesting problems. Email me if interested. -dans \_ Are the orbital lasers mounted on sharks? \_ No, the sharks kept exploding in a vacuum, and they kept eviscerating the handlers when we tried to put them into spacesuits so we had to scrub that plan. -dans \_ I'll suit up yer sharks.. fer a million bucks \_ We're pretty flush, but, given that this isn't key to our world domination plans, this would be a poor use of a million bucks. That said, we do pay well for developers. -dans \_ There's no way this is going to work until you solve the exploding shark problem. Sorry. I think you guys can do it though. \_ A valid point, but don't hold your breath. It's just not that high on our priority list. -dans \_ Your interest in sharks actually reveals something about your personality. Since you are afraid of being outed by my diagnosis, I wont elaborate. Are you planning to provide the JPG of your hand? -Soda's Board Certified Shrink \_ No sharks? Doooooooomed! Everyone just *knows* you can't have lasers without sharks. \_ Hey who wiped out the discussion of world domination plans and flaming? -dans |
| 2007/3/8-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45909 Activity:nil |
3/8 USDC is looking to hire a programmer:
/csua/pub/jobs/USDC_Programmer
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/290094575.html
Email me with questions. --erikred |
| 2007/2/13-17 [Industry/Jobs, Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45735 Activity:nil |
2/13 If anyone is looking for a job (or internship, this is aimed at
both current students and alum), bug me. I work with a bunch of smart
people at an interesting company that's going nuclear, I know a bunch
of people who have founded/are starting companies, and one very badass
recruiter. -dans |
| 2007/2/11-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45710 Activity:high |
2/11 So apparently minimum wage increases do in fact result in layoffs.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0210biz-teenwork0210.html
\- yeah, and vaccines kills people
\_ So do you still think the Iraq occupation was the right thing?
\_you are an idiot.
\_ your an idiot.
\_ Is this supposed to be funny?
\_ But they do not result in layoffs of unoin workers, which is why
unions are so keen on pushing minimum wage increases. This is not
new.
\_ Many union contracts are written such that the base wage is a
multiple of the minimum wage. Thus, raising the minimum wage
has nothing to do with the working poor they claimed to be
helping and everything to do with a *huge* gimme to unions.
\_ Exactly. Another reason is that raising minimum wage makes
hiring unskilled workers more costly, and hiring skilled
workers not as costly in comparison. So employers will be
more likely to hire skilled workers, which again doesn't help
the working poor they claim to be helping. -- PP
\_ Did you even read the article? The layoffs are amongst
teenagers, not the "working poor." In fact, it implies
that older and more experienced workers were becoming
more valuable. This is a good thing, imho. Also, it is
forcing workplaces to become more efficient, which is
the best way to improve standards of living. Without
knowing what the unemployment rate is before and after,
you are not really measuring much. Maybe all those
laid off fast food workers found more economically
prodcutive activity.
productive activity.
\_ No one said the working poor were laid off. Yet. Two
things were said: raising the minimum wage is a gimme
to unions, and that teens are getting axed. I do like
the idea that firing people improves their lives. That
sure worked well for employees in the 2001-2004 era.
\_ "... nothing to do with the working poor they..."
Someone sure said that. Give me some real stats
and not just anecdotes, otherwise you are just
talking out your ass.
\_ Quote them please. Stats: there are no stats that
demonstrate the legal fact that union contracts
are based on a multiple of the minimum wage. It
is a legal fact, not a numeric statistical event.
You really need to keep up with what is being
said, especially if you're going to accuse other
people of "talking out your ass".
\_ Scroll up 20 lines. I am not going to repeat
something that was posted three paragraphs
ago. Do you have a reading comprehension
problem?
\_ You spent more time talking about how you're
too cool/smart to quote than it would have
taken to quote. Except, oh wait, there is
really nothing there for you to quote that
backs up what you said. Quote it.
\_ Minor quibble here: telling teens you're cutting back shifts and
hours constitutes "layoffs"? I thought you had to employ someone
fulltime in order to lay them off.
\_ Okay, whatever: ^layoffs^hour reductions
\_ Okay, whatever: ^layoffs^reduced employment
\_ You ever been laid off a real job? On the way down, some
companies will cut hours or force lower wages (which obviously
isn't possible in this case), before finally cutting for real.
And how is it that cutting back a shift isn't a layoff/firing
if it was your shift that got cut? No job, but good worker =
laid off.
\_ In answer to your question, yes. They gave me a severance
package and paid my health insurance for two months. As I
said before, I thought you had to employ someone fulltime
in order to lay them off.
\_ Layoff has simply become the nice way to say "fired". It's
also used in the same way as it used to be.
\_ If you are working 30 hours per week and your employer
tells you he doesn't need you anymore, then you've
been laid off. What does full-time have to do with
anything?
\_ Nothing. I also think it's funny that he thinks firing
people is good for them. |
| 2006/12/21-23 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Industry/Jobs] UID:45484 Activity:nil |
12/21 I guess those *aren't* jobs Americans won't do: http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2006/12/20/4589a66d00bd4 \_ Yes, just like there's a purported shortage of engineers, PhDs, etc. |
| 2006/11/30-12/12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45396 Activity:nil |
11/30 Anyone have any experience with http://panix.com? \_ No direct experience, but they're one of the really old school mom & pop ISP shops. They're probably pretty good if you want no-frills services that just work. Probably less good if you want a 24-7 NOC. :) -dans |
| 2006/11/7-8 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45232 Activity:nil |
11/7 http://pandora.com Free music, wide variety, easy to use. I LOVE IT. -motd reviewer PS Are you guys going IPO any time soon? \_ Hi, I'm an engineer there. We have lots of openings: http://blog.pandora.com/jobs Ask me anything. --lye@csua \_ I love your Brazilian variety. It's got a surprisingly comprehensive Bossa Nova collection. Pandora KICKS ASS. PS. Fuck mainstream pop/rock. \_ Excellent site. I wish there were a way to combine music streams to "triangulate" between two or more styles. -John \_ There is. Try "QuickMix". --lye \_ Bah, can't find it, I'll keep looking, thx. -John |
| 2006/11/2-4 [Reference/BayArea, Industry/Jobs] UID:45116 Activity:moderate |
10/2 Anybody ever used the "cost-of-living" salary calculators on the web?
I'm using the one on http://bestplaces.net and also on http://salary.com. They're
giving me vastly different numbers. Putting in a round number of
100,000 as salary in San Jose, CA, if I move to Houston, TX, the
http://salary.com web site shows that I would have to earn 64K. But the
http://bestplaces.net site shows that I'd have to earn 45K. Which site
to trust? And what is the source of these numbers? Neither site
says how they calculate these things. Thanks.
\_ Even accounting for all the excellent "life is about living" advice
given below, the calculators still do a very poor job of translating
from one city to another. Your rent in Houston may be lower but
other living expenses are static. A new car, computer, your next
vacation, utilities, clothing, and a ton of other things don't
change that much in price by location. The 45K number is garbage.
the 64K 'feels' very low. I wouldn't leave this area for 64k in
Texas even though the people there are nicer and living is easier.
I might think about 80k if it was a great job with great people I
knew and lots of upside. 90k would be more like it as a minimum
to go from here at 100k to there into random job. For me. Whatever
you do, you should definitely fly out there for a few days, drive
around, see what the city is like, talk to realtors, chat with the
locals, etc, before making any big decisions.
\- people have convex perferences generally but with something
like this people trade offs are wildly different. it may not
be hard to compare rent/mortgage for same square footage
of living space, but other factors are hard to compare both
for hard to capture intanglible reasons [i would much prefer to
drive bumper to bumper on the bay bridge for 45 or drive fast on
280 for 45 min than to drive medium speed on ugly 101 for 45min].
and even if some study could some how capture these factors,
you know your preferences better than other people. some people
would rather have a 2400sq ft house and a giant tv and swimming
\_ Are you talking about dim, aka the average American with
the typical big American dream of owning big SUVs, 4 children,
2 dogs, and a BBQ grills in the backyard?
\_ I hate dogs, kids, and SUVs. BBQ is fine. --dim
\_ I hate dogs, kids, and SUVs. BBQ is fine. --gay dim
\_ This is so
hilarious.
Don't quit
your day job.
pool in freeemont, others would rather live in 900ft space in sf
\_ Only Eurotrash aka I-Hate-America German John and Socialist
\_ Only Eurotrash aka I-Hate-America German John and anarchist
lafe like urban living. The average American hates urban living.
\_ Which is precisely why we urbanites love it. -dans
\_ Jawohl. And as to below, ditto here, but I can always
get out of the city. And when I do, I want to visit
nature, not Fresno. -John
\- i dont like "urban living" because it keeps me away
from suburbanites. i just like living a lot of my life
outside the house. i generally meet friends at a bar
or a restaurant or a cafe. rather than going
over to people's houses or having them over.
i think if you live in some place like danville
or the almaden valley you probably spend more
time at home with your "stuff" rather than going
out. i also eat out a lot. i'm not being judgemental
here, just suggesting the preferences here are
radically different. i dont get milage out of having
my car broken into or none of the movie theaters
having "plenty of free parking", but that's ok
with me. it's still worth it .. but might not
be for somebody who likes spending time at home
with the wife and kids and working in his garage
woodshop. note also, before peet's/starbucks, ranch99,
good standard bakeries, the current ubiquity of indian
and thair restaurants, amazon [for books] there was a
and thai restaurants, amazon [for books] there was a
lot of "diversity" not really available easily in
not lot of "diversity" easily available in
the 'burbs. obviously this has changed a lot in
berkeley/walnut creek/palo alto/freemont etc.
if you were going to do the exact same job, how much
would they have to pay you to move to stockon? bakesrfield?
fresno? would you move to fresno for a year for $50k
in "hazard" pay? [no offense slouie] .. i'd reject that
instantly. 50k wouldnt really change my life at all
but i think i'd be hating that year.
but i think i'd be hating that year. [althought i'd
be willing to spend 2 days there for $250].
and spend money on cocktails not plasma tv. so people living
in huston and manhattan are probably looking for different things,
so you cant take a static bundle and just price it in different
markets. i think what makes the most sense is to compare specific
places [say SF vs Manhattan or Chicago ... where you would be
holding "lifestyle" reasonably constant] or decide if your
priorities have changed and you want to change lifestyle ...
for example a house-owning mech eng i know in san jose has
decided to become an optometrist because she wants to live in
the sierra foothills. in some cases you can bite the bullet and
live a livestyle you dont want to live for a few years in return
for big dollars, but usually that involves moving to dubai or
iraq, not BF nowhere, USA. to move to houston i'd have to be paid
more cash, not be able to live better at my current salary ...
because you could not buy anything to compensate for living in
houston vs SF ... it would be a matter of saving the money for
future consumption. |
| 2006/10/10-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:44761 Activity:nil |
10/11 Slide is looking for a Product Manager and QA Engineer:
/csua/pub/jobs/Slide/product_manager
/csua/pub/jobs/Slide/qa_engineer
I recently signed on as a developer there, so feel free to email me if
you have questions. -dans@@csua.berkeley.edu |
| 2006/10/3-5 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:44643 Activity:kinda low |
10/3 My manager and the project manager refuses to have a project plan
(i.e., schedule). Instead, they opted to track progress via bugzilla.
Now my manager wants to know when we can release the product. I
told him that we really need a schedule to know that. He then placed
the blame on me for not having a schedule. How would you respond to
this? -abused employee
\_ http://csua.org/u/h35
\_ Let me counter with something more useful:
http://csua.org/u/h37
\_ It sounds like you are the technical lead. The PM is the PM, and
your manager is just a middle manager. As the technical lead, you
should obtain whatever data you can from above on what the
schedule requirements are (this can even be just a "complete by"
date), and create an implementation plan according to any dates.
\_ Just do your own project management. I have often had to do this
at various points in my career when my bosses were idiots. This
also helps make you ready for the jump to the next level, if
are so interested. -ausman
\_ This is a pretty standard problem. Check out the author
Steve McConnell, and browse through his books Code Complete,
Software Estimation and Rapid Development. Trust me, you are
not alone. There are plenty of good discussions and data out
there to help you deal with bad software management. --peterl
there to help you deal with bad software managers. --peterl
\_ You made a mistake on day 1 when you knew you needed a schedule
and didn't make one. Next time just make a schedule. Print it
and email it to your manager. At that point it becomes his
problem if he doesn't like it or it doesn't fit business needs.
For your current situation, you can either flip him off and get
another job, or you can take the mature approach, tell him it isn't
about finger pointing but team success, blah blah, and sit his
dumb ass down to write a real schedule from the point you're at now.
\_ He was adamant about not having a schedule. He made it clear
that he did not believe in it. He has tried it and it has
failed every time. I don't mind working on a schedule now,
but knowing him, I know he will then turn around and say
that's something I should have done at the beginning. So
instead of being praised for taking the initiative, I will
get blamed for starting it late.
\_ Yeah, a lot of incompetent and/or inexperienced software
managers behave like this. I would suggest browsing through
those books, or similar ones, that I mentioned. If your
manager is unwilling to make changes and continues to blame
you even after you discuss professional engineering standards
with him, then you'll probably have to transfer, quit, or
bring it up with his bosses. Feel free to email me if you
want to talk about this further. --peterl
\_ In this case, if he didn't want a schedule, you should have
showed him an implementation plan, but one without dates.
\_ Wow, that sucks. What I have learned (the hard way) to do
with shitty managers who refuse to follow common good
practice or make bad calls is to send them an email spelling
out what they told me to do and ask them to confirm.
"So, Bob, just wanted to make sure we're on the same page and
you don't want a formal schedule for this project." The
smart ones get the message. The dumb ones will fail and
blame you no matter what. If your manager really is that
dumb then sometimes quitting (or finding a new job in the
same company if the place is big enough) is the only answer.
It still sounds like your situation might be salvagable but
I'd have my resume up to date just in case. BTW, according
to my tech recruiter friend there are lots of jobs now but
no one applying for them.
\_ I tried that. I think my manager falls into the later
category. I would send out minutes and he always later
claims that I shouldn't dwell on what we decided before--
as a startup, we need to be nimble and adapt. Bottom
line is, regardless what I do, I am always wrong, even
if it were his bad decision.
\_ Just go get another job then. There are plenty out
there right now.
if it were his badi decision. |
| 2006/9/23-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Industry/Jobs] UID:44506 Activity:moderate Cat_by:auto 68%like:44541 |
9/22 Note to future employers reading jblack's archives. Justin P Black
is a total nut case. Just search for his name on the archiver.
\_ I don't like jblack's extremist right-wing postings as the next
person. But don't you think it's wrong to use a public
discussion forum to personally smear other people? That seems
like a very Fox New's type thing to do.
\_ Op's post reflects more negatively on him than it does on
the guy he's talking about. I don't really care if I have to
work with someone who has political opinions I think are crazy
(I've done plenty of that, and it can be fun atually). However,
if I thought some self-righteous asshole like op thought he
could get away with not hiring someone because of his political
opinions, there's no way I'd work for him. That sort of rigid
authoritarian attitude is likely to carry over into technical,
work-related matters and make someone impossible to work for/with.
Whereas wingnut political opinions can be easily separated from
technical matters, and have no effect on quality of life at work.
\_ If people stopped hiring software people with insane fringe
political opinions, the software industry would die in a week.
\_ What archiver?
\_ You're actually helping him, not hurting him. If someone doesn't
hire him because some anonymous jackass posted some bit of idiocy
like yours on some stupid blog, you've just saved him from one of
the worst jobs possible: working for stupid people.
\_ I already circulated a negative recommendation in my company.
I am making sure jblack gets special attentions. I work at Intel
Corporation and I've passed the list to my HR friends at Yahoo,
Google, HP, Applied Materials, and other major corporations.
They've also begun circulating his name to the HR depts in
other companies as well. Please help me circulate jblack's
name throughout the valley and tell me which companies
you've passed the recommendation to so that we don't duplicate
efforts. Thanks -alum of 1990, Intel Verification, SC
\_ Hey, asshole! Why don't you post your name so people who
believe in free speech can avoid dealing with you ever?
Posting freeper links to a public forum and trying to blacklist
someone from an industry are two very different things. The first
is what what the motd is for, and the second is something that
is borderline illegal, against policy in some companies, and
makes you a bad human being. I'm going to post my name just
in the hopes that I never accidentally get hired by you or your
asshole friends. And for the record, I dissagree with jblack
on every issue(except free speech on the motd and gun control).
-lafe
\_ If only the world really worked that way....
\_ Free speech for me, eh? -alum of 1997, at Intel SC until 2000
Oh yeah, I can sign my name. -emarkp
\_ What's wrong with hiring people with wacky political views so long
as they do good work and don't draw bad press to the company?
Do you support McCarthy-era blacklisting of communists?
\_ Group dynamics is just as important as technical skills. We
had a brilliant guy in our lab from the midwest with extremist
views (he thinks we should nuke Iraq, Iran, and N Korea). For
two years the manager tried to group him into different
projects and the projects all turned out to be disasterous
because we just couldn't get along. The manager gave up and
the midwest dude drifted to his little projects while most of
us moved on. Don't underestimate the power of group dynamics.
\_ His problem wasn't his views. His problem was sharing them
at work. Were the rest of you sharing your views on the same
topics or was he this wildman lone wolf out to convert you
all to nuking everyone? I'll bet his version of events is
something like, "I was recruited out to the West Coast where
all these obnoxious assholes wouldn't shutup about their
politics so I tried different groups to get away from them
but they were all more interested in everyone thinking like
them politically than in getting any work done, so I went
and did my own projects until I could get away from that
place".
\_ It won't be good for the team if he's widely hated.
\_ Professionals don't discuss their politics, religion and other
BS at work. Furthermore if you *hate* someone because they
have different political views than you, the problem is yours,
not theirs.
\_ In theory, you're absolutely right. Professionals do not
discuss shit outside of their professional work.
In practice, you're wrong. Most of the professionals
in this world are not that professional.
\_ All true. Still doesn't change the fact that employers
_will_ Google you these days before hiring you.
\_ And really, if an anonymous motd entry showing up on
google is a barrier to a job you've done him a great
service by saving him from a job with morons.
\_ Why are you such a wuss that you won't publish your name?
Anonymously naming other people is pretty low. -jrleek
\_ Because if he did, he might find himself on a counter-blacklist.
I couldn't care less about jblack's political leanings but I hate
this pathetic coward blacklist guy's behavior. Unlike the
politics, this sort of thing is something that is likely to
reflect on being a shitty guy to work with.
\_ The blacklist guy is kchang (Kevin Chang), who I'm sure is
already on plenty of blacklists for his stalking behavior.
-tom
\_ It isn't that difficult to figure out who is who on the motd.
He may very well find his own name spread around the valley,
but really my question is, "why does he care?". And no, I
know that places like Intel, HP, etc are too damned big and
disorganised, especially in hiring, to have a global blackist
created by motd writers. The whole concept is just silly and
a vain attempt to silence jblack for having political views
that differ from the childish and petty original poster.
\_ Are we running the "best of" soda useless classic motd discussions?
\_ Wow. Facism is alive and well in the liberal, tolerant Bay Area.
\_ Should we take this at face value? |
| 2006/8/5-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:43916 Activity:nil |
8/5 question for the MS Exchange VSAPI aware folks out there. In
VSAPI, are scan engines implemented as DLLs (or similar shared
objects) that are loaded into Exchange's address space, specifically
the Information Store, or are they separete processes that
communicate with Exchange via pipes/sockets/etc ala Milter? I'd
"read the fucking documentation", but apparently MS doesn't make
that readily available to non-developer$ --Jon
\_ Developer$, developer$, developer$, developer$, developer$
developer$, developer$, developer$... --SweatyBallmer
\_ They are separate processes. -geek
\_ Try again:
Login: geek Name: Eugene Kim
Directory: /home/sequent/geek Shell: /csua/adm/bin/safesorry
Never logged in.
Mail forwarded to eek+geekfwd@ocf.berkeley.edu
\_ Jon, read this:
http://msexchangeteam.com/archive/2004/10/20/245157.aspx
...
Vendor Scanning DLL
This is a DLL provided by an anti-virus vendor written to the
VSAPI specification. The specification essentially states
the vendor must provide 3 interfaces: A startup function,
a scanning function, and a shutdown function. The Information
Store loads this DLL into the Information Store process. Upon
loading the DLL, the Information Store calls the startup
function provided by the vendor. As with any DLL running in a
process, the vendor can allocate memory, spawn new threads for
supporting reporting functionality, or initiate communication
to other processes on the system supporting the VSAPI engine.
\_ Dude, who the hell would ever read that? -average American |
| 2006/8/2-6 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:43883 Activity:nil |
8/2 We're hiring software engineers. Great place to work, interesting
projects, and so forth. See /csua/pub/jobs/FortifySoftware or email
me for details. -gm
\_ I am so in. So in. -proud American |
| 2006/7/27-8/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:43817 Activity:nil |
7/27 The new startup I am working for is hiring a web application
developer: /csua/pub/jobs/abgenial
-smurf
\_ I'm so in. -proud American |
| 2006/7/17-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:43699 Activity:nil |
7/17 I recently posted my resume on the web, and am now receiving emails
from random recruiters. I am actively looking for a job so I don't
want to turn down good leads, but I've always had the impression that
recruiters are evil and slimy. What kind of experiences (good or bad)
have folks on the motd had pursuing job leads through recruiters? Is
this just a bad idea? Are there things I should watch out for?
Thanks.
\_ A recruiter's a recruiter. If they directly represent an open
position, and they can get you in the door, go for it. Sending your
resume to some email submission thing is a black hole at most places
IMO. If they're like "I want to add you to my stable^Wcontact list
for possible future jobs", lose the zero.
\_ I think this makes sense. Random professional headhunters often
have good leads that are worth pursuing. As PP says, though --
be sure the headhunter or recruiter has a specific lead in mind.
If not, they're likely to be wasting your time. -mice
\_ The time I spent dealing with a recruiter was a total waste of
time. All the jobs they found were lame and uninteresting.
--jameslin
\_ The first thing I ask a random recruiter is if there is a specific
job. I want a city, job title, salary range, and if they'll give
it, company name. If they can't provide the first three up front,
I politely decline. If they ask for my resume I ask them first for
the job description. If they can't provide a job description, I
politely decline. Once you have the job description use the net to
search key phrases and apply brain to see if you can figure out what
company they're shilling for. Then you can decide if you want to
keep talking to random recruiter. |
| 2006/6/26-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:43497 Activity:nil 73%like:43495 |
6/26 Has anyone consulted (SysAdmin) for Taos before? They offered me
work and I like their client. How much more should a consultant get
compared to their full-time equivalent? (assuming I figured that out)
\_ I was able to find my own gig for almost 2x what Taos was looking
to pay. YMMV.
\_ In general the contract client will be paying 2x for the work you
do. If you work through someone like taos, they take 1x and you get
the other. If you want to cut them out and go direct contract, you
can, but there is a huge amount of overhead in taxes and
administration you will need to take on yourself, as well as dealing
with what happens when the contract ends.
\_ More than that. I knew a guy who got $17/hr from Taos. They
were billing the company $150/hr for his services.
\_ BS dude, for me taos was taking about 30% and I got the rest.
I know because often i could get the client to tell me the
billable rate.
\_ Heh funny, I seem to recall $17/hr being entry level
sysadmin Taos pay around 1996 or so. I don't know how it
works in the US, but in Europe, big companies generally have
some form of "preferred supplier" list that's a bitch to
get on. You must be on it to contract for them (obviously
if you're consulting for someone who really wants you or
high-enough level, that's not an issue.) So the contract
agencies milk that for what it's worth. -John
\_ same thing here for big enough companies. -shac
\_ Doesn't that fall under some sort of anti-competition
law? I know companies can choose whom to do business
with, but in my experience, this has often been used
in a very nasty oligopolistic manner by contract firms
that bribe clients' purchasing people. We also have
the problem of large banks, for example, getting
together to keep rates down--both are well-known but
extremely hard to prove. -John |
| 2006/6/26 [Computer/SW/Mail, Industry/Jobs] UID:43495 Activity:low 73%like:43497 |
6/26 Has anyone SysAdmin consulted for Taos before? They offered me
a contract and I like their client. How much more should I ask
for above the client pays the full-time equivalent, assuming
I figured that out? |
| 2006/6/1-4 [Industry/Jobs, Recreation/Humor, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:43245 Activity:nil |
6/1 Semi randomly generated spam I thought was funny:
Hi there lovely,
This kbind of opportunity comes ones in a clife. I docn't want
to miss it. Do you? I am comcing to your place in few days
and I though may be we can meet each other. If you don't mind
I can send you mcy picture. I am a girbl.
\_ I am a gerbil. |
| 2006/4/26-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:42843 Activity:nil |
4/26 We have a job applicant where his expected salary seems a bit high and
I'm curious what he made at his last job. What would you expect for a
tech support lead for a large school district in the SFBA?
\_ normally this type of info is requested on a job application
but is only given to the hiring manager and HR. -shac
\_ Personally, I almost always leave that blank on application
forms. I don't think its information that's relevant until
they've decided they're interested.
\_ It's not unusual to ask this. (I find it grating as an applicant,
but it's not unusual)
\_ Call his former employer and ask. |
| 2006/4/26-27 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:42833 Activity:nil |
4/26 I hate modal dialog boxes. I realize its probably not possible to
make all application-modal dialogs non-modal without breaking a million
things, but in WinXP is there any way I can globally demote all
system-modal dialogs to be application-modal? |
| 2006/3/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:42362 Activity:nil |
3/21 I just read the csua minutes wrt hard drive failures, fix, admin,
email, root, whatever. Good job mrauser. You guys are doing a
good job keeping the fine tradition of producing some of the
best sysadms in the world. -old sysadm from csua/cal
\_ Woot, woot! Go mrauser! -mrauser |
| 2006/3/16-18 [Health/Women, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Industry/Jobs] UID:42271 Activity:nil |
3/16 Is this Vivagel stuff available for purchase in Australia?
http://tinyurl.com/n77h2 |
| 2006/3/13-14 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:42204 Activity:high |
3/13 Is it hard for new-grads (CS/EE) to get entry-level jobs in this
market?
\_ The type of jobs that I've been involved and have been interviewing
people for in the last 10 years require excellent coding skills
as well as thorough thought processes. The best coders are those
that come from decent schools and have decent GPAs (above 3.0).
Interestingly, some of the WORST programmers I've hired have
really high GPAs (above 3.8) or those that have PhDs. They are
smart and are good theorists, but they aren't necessarily
hard workers or good team players. They are brilliant in their
little own worlds, but have very little common sense and don't
embrace the work culture. Many of them are lazy or think that
existing code is trash ("I'm holier than thou") thus don't
contribute much except for their snide and occasionally
insightful comments; but talk is cheap, and they contribute
very little. They also tend to get bored and leave quickly, or
apply to MBAs/grad school and leave. I don't hire super smart
overachievers anymore. So don't worry about your GPA and such. Just
present yourself clearly and do well on the interview and you'll
be fine. -old alumni
\_ There is always a job for smart, likable people. The obnoxious
and stupid will have a hard time in any market. Right now, things
have/are switching back to the job seeker's side.
\_ What's the salary like for an average new-grad from an average
school? What about for someone with kinda good GPA, say 3.5,
from Cal? I don't mean the super-talented. Thanks.
\_ Entry-level jobs are some of the easiest to get. Who doesn't
like smart people for peanuts? Yes, they are sometimes
not immediately useful, but that doesn't seem to matter.
By the way, why do you think your GPA matters? With a 3.5
you could go to a good grad school, which is what you
might want to consider. That's a very good GPA and your
employer won't even care. They will most likely lump you
in with the guy who got a 3.0 at San Jose State. Grad schools
will care a lot more, if that's important to you.
\_ I heard that there are many really cool companies where
programming staff, HR, etc is dominated by alumni from top
CS schools and they generally do pay attention to where the
applicant is coming from. Of course, the university degree
is only a part of the equation.
\_ Sure, they look at where you went to school. However,
I doubt they care about your GPA. If they do, I
would question why they do. I once had an interview
where the woman asked me why I was so bad at math,
because I had B's in most of my upper division math
classes (I was a math major). I wanted to slap her
and say "If they were all A's I'd probably be
at Princeton right now and not applying for your
crummy job."
\_ Well, I generally filter new grads based on school
and then gpa. The school filter is mostly practical.
I'm more likely to find pearls amongst a pool of MIT
grads than among a pool of Bob's State U grads. Not
that there are noone excellent from Bob's; it's just
that they are rarer and take more effort to discover.
Also, interviewers tend to know more about the program
at the big noise schools (e.g., I know to be suitably
impressed by someone who did well in 6-111), and
that makes the resume screen more meaningful. At least
for me, GPA usually works as a high-pass filter, and
I don't stress too much over the difference once the
\_ Well, I generally filter new grads resumes based on
school and then gpa. The school filter is mostly
practical. I'm more likely to find pearls amongst a
pool of MIT grads than among a pool of Bob's State U
grads. Not that there are noone excellent from Bob's;
it's just that they are rarer and take more effort to
discover. Also, interviewers tend to know more about
the program at the big noise schools (e.g., I know to
be suitably impressed by someone who did well in 6.111),
and that makes the resume screen more meaningful. At
least for me, GPA usually works as a high-pass filter,
and I don't stress too much over the difference once the
GPA meets the reasonable criterion.
\_ Personally, I don't put my GPA on my resume, and never
have. It's a terrible filter, because it automatically
filters out smart, creative hackers that don't care about/
are bored by school. That may be okay for large software
companies writing, say, tax software. It's disasterous
for companies that want to be nimble, and hire the best.
I am in no way insinuating that all people with bad GPA's
are bright creative hackers, or that all people with good
GPA's are dumb automatons. Putting your gpa on your
resume implicitly supports this practice. Not putting it
on there may at least earn you a call back inquiring for it
which gives me the opportunity for me to explain why it's
not there. If a company still refuses to move forward
after that, I say ``Thank you very much for your time, but,
if you are unable to flex on this, I don't think I'd be a
good fit for your company culture.'' Incidentally, my GPA
sucked, but it has never gotten me filtered out of a job
once I reached the interview phase.
-dans Disclaimer: tom believes I am Paolo's stooge/tool.
If you're not with tom, you're against him, so
you may want to ignore the preceding, lest you
incur tom's wrath.
\_ Was it really necessary to stir this up again?
Why is it so important that you get the last
word in this argument?
\_ Who's stirring things up? I'm providing a
public service. In fact, when I have time,
I'm plan to write a utility that allows
people to add a disclaimer they write to
their own motd posts. Additionally, it
will allow everyone to write disclaimers
about others. All these disclaimers will
be viewable via the web, but only the most
popular (as chosen by majority vote) will
be added to entries on the motd. Of
course, it would be against policy to run
this tool automatically via cron or script,
so people will need to run it by hand. I
also plan to add an option to run it that
strips out disclaimers, so people who don't
like the utility can remove them. -dans
\_ Well, the utility does sound pretty neat,
but I was referring to your referencing
the Paolo Incident. Repeatedly spamming
motd with it doesn't seem to be resolving
anything. Oh well. n/m -mice
\_ Wow, you must really enjoy losing debates
badly, to bring it up again. -tom
\_ Seriously, you two ever graduate from
grade school? You bicker like a couple of
10 year olds. Grow up. -jrleek
\_ Tom, we already know that, insofar as this
matter is concerned, you have a completely
and utterly distorted view of reality.
Frankly, I have no interest in arguing it
with you any further as I am not your
psychotherapist. If I was, I would
recommend medication since you clearly
haven't responded to talk therapy. -dans
\_ Dude you are no better. Tom's view wasn't
"utterly distorted". He simply claims
Paolo violated policy, wasn't punished,
and lied about it. You have not shown
that to be wrong. You've just written
pages of allusions to secret concerns
about hate speech and stuff that is
frankly not a plausible explanation.
The fact you're bring it up again shows
maybe it hits you harder than you let on?
P.S. I don't know what the new grad market is like, but my
anecdotal sense is that the market is good and getting
better. If you know your stuff, you should have no
difficulty finding a job. The disclaimer applies to this
as well.
\_ There are real problems with hiring people with
good GPAs. Some of these are the same problems I
find with hiring people who are perhaps overeducated
for a particular job. They get bored easily and
bored turns into lazy, for example. They question
decisions made above them. In short, they are not
always good worker bees. You *can* have too many
chiefs and not enough Indians. Everyone wants to
feel important and everyone wants a challenging
job with opportunities for advancement, but no one
wants to work with someone who feels that they are
'doing time' until something better comes along
or they run off to grad school or whatever. Real
life story: I had a Caltech CS grad and a guy who
dropped out of a liberal arts college with the
equivalent of an AA. The latter guy was so much
better. He worked hard. He asked questions. He
put in extra hours. The Caltech guy had to be told
what to do and when he was done he showed no
initiative or desire for increased responsibility.
He saw work as a series of tasks to be completed.
He flirted with medical school and then grad school
and we all knew he'd be gone. We were glad when he
was. He was a smart guy who coasted along doing just
enough to get by. He was a terrible employee with
an inflated sense of self-worth and he was bad for
morale with his attitude. He really didn't care for
hard work and getting him to do mundane crap (as he
was, after all, entry level) was impossible. When
he did get a real task he'd suddenly take off skiing to
Mammoth with his friends, missing the deadline. In
short, a high GPA means you will probably do well
in grad school, not that you'll be a good employee.
\_ Nod. I've had this discussion with many people, and
I'm glad to see that support exists for this
viewpoint on the motd too. -dans
\_ Companies don't care about GPA now? When I graduated
in 1996, Intel would only talk to people who met the
"cut-off GPA", which was 3.5. AT&T's cut-off point
was 3.0, so was TI. And these requirements weren't
from individual hiring managers but from their HR
department.
\_ Yes, and it's stupid. So someone graduates from Cal
with a 3.4 and is rejected, while someone from, say,
Stanford (being generous) with a 3.5 is interviewed?
Stanford, while a good school, has incredible grade
inflation. Maybe they should hire based on SAT scores
or GRE scores or something. I think that would
actually be more meaningful than comparing GPAs
across programs and across universities - even as
a simple high-level filter.
P.S. I realize that a GPA shows a remarkably
different aptitude than a standardized test, but at
least the test scores can be compared reliably - at
least against others from the same testing year.
\_ I'm sure that many companies today do care about GPA,
and will continue to do so. I simply have no interest
working for a company that a) cares about GPA and b) is
so rigid wrt a) that a group or hiring manager can't get
them to ignore it. It's a personal choice, which, thus
far, has done well by me. -dans
\_ Removing the GPA from my resume was the fastest way
to turn getting no responses to lots of responses.
Turns out most people didn't really care, and it
only served to reduce offers. I'm sure it would
have helped if I had a 3.8 GPA. I still have an
almost 100% interview:job offer ratio.
\_ Last I talked to Google (2004), they kept
telling me over and over and over again that
they placed a lot of value on GPA. I
suspect they still care a lot about it now.
\_ Yes, this is true. Google places a lot of
value on GPA for new college grads. Which
means that, if you put your gpa on your
resume, it is below their threshold, and you
submit your resume cold (i.e. not through a
contact that works there), it is rejected
outright. They may reject what appears to be
a ncg app outright if it does not include a
gpa, in which case, if your gpa sucks, damned
if you do, damned if you don't. Or the
absence of a gpa may get it past auto filters
and into human hands, which is what you want.
Also, note that Adam Bosworth works for
google. He would utterly fail the gpa/degree
test. But he's a superstar so, he's not
necessarily pertinent to the discussion at
hand. -dans
\_ New grads? I had been working for 10
years when I interviewed with them. I
could only assume it was their polite
way of saying, "sorry, your GPA sucks".
Needless to say, they didn't extend me
an offer.
\_ Now that they're post-IPO why would
anyone want to work there anyway?
If you're a superstar making $1MM plus
stock a year to do whatever you want,
sure. But for the smart but otherwise
normal people out there? They have
nothing to offer anyone like that now.
Hours are long, pay is below average,
without a PhD you're going nowhere.
\_ Just what exactly do these PhDs
do at Google, anyway? You only
need a few good guys for
algorithm development. Isn't
Google basically a marketing/media
company at this point?
\_ You've been working for 10 years, and
you still include your GPA on your
resume? That looks kind of pathetic
and desparate. -dans
\_ 12 years now. I didn't include
my GPA. Google insisted on
knowing that information before
second round interviews.
\_ To me this is just another data point that
Google's hiring criteria are stupid. I know
people working at Google I'd never hire,
but they look good on paper. From what
I know of the hiring process they make
you feel like you should be lucky to be
working for them. Any company that does
that sucks. It would be interesting to
note when Google's hiring policies changed
and why. From an outsider point of view
they seem to be hiring 'superstars' more
for PR than to address actual needs, because
they can. I've seen this lead to disaster
when all of the rats desert the sinking
ship after they've cashed their options.
I'm not saying it will happen again, but
I think it's been shown time and again
that teams of superstars (whether sports,
entertainment, science, or business) tend
to underperform relative to the hype. I
view it as Google's way of creating a buzz to
fool sucker drones into thinking that they
have a better job than they do.
\_ Google has put a lot of effort into
recruiting phd physicists to work there,
with hiring ads in Physics Today etc.
As a phd physicist, this strikes me as
totally retarded. I'm a pretty good
physicist, but you'd have to be an idiot
to hire me to write code. I wouldn't hire
me to write code.
\_ I assume the job isn't writing code,
but instead working on a technology
to transform the heat from all of their
servers back into electricity. Duh.
Either that or the warp drive they
are building. Remember, Google is
not just a search engine. It's a
conglomerate that is going to change
the world.
\_ Which doesn't do evil! (well, unless
it has no other convenient choice).
\_ Um, that's a nice rant, but the sensible
conclusion is that you don't want to work
for google because you feel their hiring
practices are stupid, and leading to
disaster. It's a perfectly reasonable
opinion, but others may differ. -dans |
| 2006/2/24-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:41999 Activity:nil |
2/24 Any good/bad experience to share about ubid?
\_ I had a negative one about 4 years ago on an item they claimed
had a mfr warranty that was an OEM product that didn't. I had
trouble getting either the mfr or ubid to make good on that when
the product died.
\_ I've used it to buy 2 monitors, one back in 2000, another last
year. Both were Sony, refurbished. Both worked great and the
buying process worked nice. I like them, but I speaking from
limited experience (2 purchases, one item category). |
| 2006/2/15 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:41871 Activity:low |
2/15 new grad CS salaries slipping:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/13/pf/college/starting_salaries/index.htm
\_ ME higher than CS? How did it happen?
\_ MEs build stuff. It has to work. CS monkey's sit around im'ing
and playing WOW while siping latte's. If the code doesn't work,
release note it. |
| 2006/1/27-29 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Industry/Jobs] UID:41562 Activity:low |
1/26 Have a Paypal interview. any experience on what to expect?
also have online preliminary test..
\_ http://www.paypalsucks.com The way a company treats their customers
says something about the kind of people in management. But good
luck on the interview.
\_ thanks.. i told them i am no longer interested..
\_ wow... picky. should just go in to get the offer leverage.
\_ Wow. You could have at least gone in for the interview
and asked them about the stuff on http://paypalsucks.com, which
might have been interesting. |
| 2006/1/8-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:41300 Activity:nil |
1/8 http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articles/snow.shtm Hiring, firing. Hints for employers and employees. good luck. |
| 2006/1/2-4 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41200 Activity:high |
1/2 A friend of mine is considering Peace Corps. I've heard that it used
to be a good program but in the past 25 years has lost a lot of its
original lustre, that countries need more help managing resources
than 22 year olds teaching them about sanitation, etc. Does anyone
have any experience w/ Peace Corps? Or know of any good criticisms
of the program? I'll start with:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/project/content/project/peacecorps/daily/1104voiceag.html
\_ Use tinyurl. I just met a woman who is some sort of Africa
\_ why?
\_ why?
\_ why ask why?
\_ why not?
\_ why ask why not?
\_ Why not ask why not?
expert in the peace corps and who described a lot of what they
do very openly. Apparently there's still a lot of need for
outfits like PC--NGOs, as they are not guaranteed funding, tend
to be very self-interested. If you like, I can put you in touch
with her (she was a good friend's roommate at GWU Law.) -John
\_ My understanding is people who can teach English and maybe
elementary math are a dime a dozen. If you are a Civil Engineer
or Medical Professional, who may be quite a hot commodity.
However, that may also mean you can go into a USAID project
or MSF/DrsWithoutBorders type program. I dunno if a vast
knowledge of say BGP can be used by the Peace Corps.
The do have a lot of restrictions, but I assume you have
discovered some of those in your preliminary research.
\_ My cousin is currently in the Peace Corps in Latin America.
He seems to enjoy the actual work he does (I think he has
been involved in getting farmers access to new markets via
the internet and other such programs based on micro loans,
but I'm not 100% sure).
He has expressed some reservations about the way the Peace
Corps is administered and the fact that in some places local
politics can get in the way of providing any real assistance.
iirc, in one town where my cousin worked, the local mayor
actively resisted any work done by Peace Corps ppl b/c he
felt that they didn't really understand the local situation.
One problem I've seen with the Peace Corps is that they don't
really train the people with real world skills like building
homes or paving or farming before sending them out (most of
the people I know who did Peace Corps weren't engineers) so
they end up in big or small cities where they can't really
do anything very too useful.
For historical reference, my mom used to tell me stories of
people who did Peace Corps in India. She says they mostly
acted like tourists, walking around from village to village,
giving out money and stuff. Mostly she says it was pretty
lame because in a country like India, a few random english
majors can't solve inherent problems related to lack of
education and opportunity.
the internet and other such programs but I'm not 100% sure).
I remember he described some problems with the way the PC
is administered and local government resistance. If you
want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to put you
in contact with him.
--ranga
want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to get you
some contact info (I don't think he has email access right
now). --ranga
\_ primrose got back recently from a tour in the corps in togo
\_ My girlfriend spent two years in the Peace Corps in Honduras.
We went to visit her adopted Honduran family a couple years
ago. I think her impression is that the Peace Corps does good
work, but the problems tend to be endemic and difficult to
overcome. It's certainly true that the Corps and all NGOs
have great difficulty effecting change, due to local politics,
corruption, and poverty.
It is worth noting that the Peace Corps doesn't sponsor projects;
Peace Corps volunteers are assigned to a project run by a local
organization or NGO. There is also a wide range of types of
work to do, from health and science education, to business
development, to engineering. Apparently taxidermy is one of
the most sought-after skills due to the huge problems of
species endangerment and extinction in poor countries.
It is a truism that Peace Corps volunteers get more out of the
experience than the countries get out of the programs. -tom
\_ Join the Peace Corps: travel to exotic countries, encounter
interesting and stimulating species of ancient eras.... and
embalm them.
\_ If I join the peace corps, will I get to have sex with all
the local girls???? -what sodans really want to know!
\_ "get to"? |
| 2005/12/13-15 [Industry/Jobs] UID:41001 Activity:nil |
12/13 Hiring the A-Team via Craigslist:
http://www.stuffo.com/a-team-finding.htm
\_ Old.
\_ I've never seen it before -- it's hilarious! I'm glad it was
posted again. -mice
\_ seconded |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Security, Industry/Jobs] UID:40906 Activity:nil |
12/7 We're looking for interns for a 3-5 month project helping us
populate our security policy database for various windows applications.
The work involves installing the application, using it for a while,
determining the appropriate security policy, and entering it
in to a database. Work is 15+ hours a week (however much you want
to work above min. 15 is fine), pays $12-$15 an hour, and can be
done offsite from the comfort of your own home.
email sking@zonelabs.com if you are interested.
--sky
\_ Don't you know students don't read motd?
\_ Good point. i should email jobs@csua |
| 2005/12/1-4 [Computer/SW/Database, Industry/Jobs] UID:40801 Activity:nil |
12/1 myvest is looking for a senior java developer with strong oracle
skills. if interested, email toby@myvest.com
\_ Do you sell vests?
\_ Are they made from real gorilla chests?
\_ There's no better than authentic Irish Setter. |
| 2005/11/30-12/2 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40773 Activity:nil |
11/29 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2005/11/13/MNGHFFNMAC1.DTL UC Top Salaries dominated by the School of Medicine. \_ That's not just UC schools. Med schools have to pay their faculty a lot, to be competent with private hospitals/practices. \_ i think you meant "competitive" \_ oops, you're right! -pp Not that academic salaries are anywhere close still. \_ where does the other compensation come from? |
| 2005/11/23-26 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40713 Activity:nil |
11/23 Miss the dot-com hiring frenzy? Become a nurse!
http://csua.org/u/e2k (latimes.com)
"The shortage is expected to worsen as nurses--whose average age is
nearing 50--retire in waves. Those retirements will be in full swing
just as the oldest baby boomers are reaching their 70s ..."
\_ except that nurses actually have to do real work. -tom
\_ so did most of us during the dotcom craze.
\_ Except we didn't get overtime pay. In fact we didn't even
get any pay for overtime.
\_ You could've been a nurse. Then you'd have to work hard
hanging out at the nurse's station. Maybe fill out some
paperwork. Or even bring food to a patient sometimes,
but not too often because the union says thats not ok.
\_ thank gawd for Ah-nold, who is always kicking the butts
of nurses!
\_ A registered nurse makes much more moeny than a nurse.
\_ by "nurse" do you mean nursing assistant, LPN, both, or
predominantly one or the other?
\_ Do you want to wipe the asses of the incontinent old and terminal
AIDS patients?
\_ Then another option is pharmacist. No direct contact with
patients except when you have to man the cash register when the
pharmacy technicians are out.
\_ Isn't that mind-numbingly boring? Measure this, enter data
in computer, measure that, enter data, ad nauseam.
\_ heh... sorta sounds like a bartender
\_ Except the chances are a lot higher you'll kill
people if you're not so great at your job.
\_ In the dotcom hiring frenzy they were actually paying well. The
reason theres a shortage of nurses is because they dont pay that
great.
\_ I like the photo of the one guy there -op
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_nurses |
| 2005/11/16-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40628 Activity:low 75%like:40621 |
11/16 Can Retailers discriminate/not hire based on looks?
\_ No. They sent the ugly ones in the backroom to
to stock, inventory, and cleaning. For every
pretty face in front there are at least 3 ugly
people working in the backroom.
\_ Sure they can. Being ugly is not a protected class.
\_ Imagine equal opportunity strip clubs.
\_ ouch!
\_ That would kill the business. The average American has
as much sex appeal as a road accident.
\_ Uhm, I don't think that's unique to Americans, man.
\_ It's "more" unique to Americans than most
\_ Which, in context, is still meaningless.
\_ Most strip clubs do it financially without fear of being sued
for discrimination. Hold an "amateur night" as a tryout. If
they don't win, they aren't hired. BTW most strippers are
considered contractors who have to pay stage fees in order to
dance. If they don't get tips, they are losing money.
\_ Legally, not as such. However, there are plenty of ways around this
without actually saying, "We don't hire fatties." Compare/contrast
with Japan, where such blatantly discrimination is common place.
\_ what are the best excuses?
\_ "Thank you for your interest. We have a lot of applicants,
and while your application was strong, we went with a
stronger match."
\_ I've been wondering how Hooters (not a retailer) managed to hire
only hot chicks and yet avoid lawsuits.
\_ Hooters said it's a bona fide occupational qualification.
http://csua.org/u/e12
\_ Thanks!!!
\_ Time to open up a chain of "longcox" restaurants
\_ "Thank you for your interest. We have a lot of applicants,
and while your application was long, we went with a
longer match." |
| 2005/11/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40621 Activity:kinda low 75%like:40628 |
11/16 Can Retailers discrimated/not hire based on looks?
\_ Sure they can. Being ugly is not a protected class.
\_ Imagine equal opportunity strip clubs. |
| 2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Industry/Jobs] UID:40464 Activity:nil |
11/6 1590: http://files.deviantart.com/f/2004/188/8/7/gridgame.swf \_ 2016 -mice \_ is there any actual skill component to this? \_ um, well if you are really patient (bored) you can line them up beforehand in chain reactive patterns. that said, I'm still just 1037 \_ ok, now 2193. - pp \_ If I see any scores being posted on Monday, that will be indicative of how much work you have at your job. \- 3574, but i outsourced to a CHINESE VILLAGE \_ hope you got a screenshot or those poor little guys worked for nothing \_ There are bugs in this. |
| 2005/10/31-11/2 [Industry/Jobs, Uncategorized/Spanish] UID:40368 Activity:kinda low |
10/31 No name employer X offered a nice job but gave me only 2 weeks to
respond. Big name employer Y has just started interviewing me
(phone) but X offer will expire in 3 days. What's the best way
to delay X? By the way for tech jobs how long do offers
usually last? 2 weeks? 2 months?
\_ All the stuff below is true. However, you must also consider
which place you'd actually want to work at if salary wasn't an
issue. Your work environment is more important than your income
after reaching a certain income level. I've walked away from very
high paying jobs because I absolutely hated going in everyday.
\_ I've had this exact situation come up before. When I got the
offer from company X, I told them I had promised company Y that
I would give them <insert number> time and asked if they were
willing to leave the offer open. The HR person said no, but the
hiring manager overrode her. Offer letters almost always expire
in about a week to ten days unless the company has a 2nd choice
they don't want to lose if the 1st choice falls through, or if
there is budgeting pressure, such as a potential hiring freeze
when the fiscal Q4 starts...
\_ Take the offer from X. If you get Y then tell them. This
happens all the time. People stress over it, but that's
reality. They have no problem firing your ass, so don't feel
guilty if you have to tell them 3 days in that you are leaving
for Y. They'll be upset, but they won't blacklist you or
anything.
\_ Basically, you can expect that you will no longer be welcome at
X anymore, if you ever end up wanting to go back to them.
If you think you may end up wanting to work for X one day, tell
them straight up you think their offer is good, but you would
like more time to evaluate your options. Sound reasonable?
\_ Yes, I agree that X may not take you back again. However,
they may. It's not deceitful to leave in that situation.
How often do people gets offers after they've already taken
'their best'? OTOH, if you ask them for more time you may end
up with neither X nor Y. The best way to play it is to
take X unless there's some overwhelming reason you don't
even want to risk pissing them off.
\_ I think the risk/benefit is better for my option than yours
in general, but I guess you think the opposite.
Anyway, plenty of room for opinion, op can decide.
\_ Depends on how badly you need a job. If OP can risk
losing both then go for it. I really needed a job.
At some point X will say 'Is there some reason you
are taking so long to decide?' at which point you either
need to take X or risk losing it. You can't have cake
and eat it, too. My point is that if you upset X
it's not the end of the world. If you don't have
to, because you have the luxury of time/money then
don't. Don't worry about working for X again,
because if you don't want to work there now, then
why would you want to later? That's when you need
to shit or get off the pot. IOW, your strategy is
better but only works for so long. Eventually,
you come to the same point in the process (where
you must decide). In that case, just take X. There are
a lot more companies out there and X may even forgive.
More than likely, X will become a distant memory
anyway. I am most grateful for the jobs I didn't
get/hang on to.
\_ I say it IS deceitful. They probably tell their other
candidates that the job is taken. Having said that, it's
probably not that big a deal. But, it's a small world and
you might just be screwing yourself a bit down the road
even if it doesn't involve X anymore. So I'd try hard not
to do that.
\_ It is not deceitful to leave X for Y if you've
already given up on Y and then they offer you the
job later (for example). There are lots of legitimate
reasons you might take X and then leave shortly afer.
We've had people relocate and then they get homesick
(or their wife does). X doesn't have to know the
specifics. They'll understand.
\_ Uh, in this case you haven't given up on Y and
are still actively pursuing jobs while accepting X.
I say it's deceitful. Whatever.
\_ How would you ever get another job if you
inform your current employer every time you
are interviewing?
\_ Offers are anywhere from 3 days to a whole year or more if you
interned and they loved you. But in most cases, I'd say it averages
a week to 1.5 weeks depending on when they offered.
\_ Tell Big Name Employer Y that you're considering another job offer,
and if they want to stay in the running, they need to move you
through their interview process quickly.
\_ This does work and you should do this, but it won't help
with whether to take X or not. I've found it can prod Y
into faster action, though. ("Are you going to make me an
offer or not?") If Y still diddles you are at Square One.
\_ Ethically, you should do a hybrid of the suggestions. Tell X you
are interviewing with Y and ask for an extension. Tell Y you have
a job offer and query if they can expedite your interview process.
However, You can't ask X to hold you a place forever. At some point,
you'll need to decide if you want job X or job Y. Figure that out
and apply as directed.
\_ Yes, and if Y hasn't made an offer then just take X. If
later Y comes through and you prefer Y then just take Y and
leave X. This is simple, folks. |
| 2005/10/25-27 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40265 Activity:nil |
10/25 Senior Software Engineer opening at Lyris.
/csua/pub/jobs/Lyris-SeniorSoftwareEngineer
I am the hiring manager. -- jsjacob
\_ Permission denied
\_ Mea culpa. Fixed. -- jsjacob |
| 2005/10/17-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40136 Activity:low |
10/17 What's the purpose of HR in a company? Is it to bring in the best
people at the lowest possible cost? Just curious cuz I'm going
through the process...
\_ there's a great deal of employer/employee relationship things
that HR in a company normally takes care of. Quite a bit more
than could easily be covered in a motd post.
\_ In terms of job offers, however, is that essentially what their
"duty" is (to get someone to accept at the lowest price)? Do
they somehow have incentive to get someone to accept at lower
salary ranges?
\_ Probably not. Acutally lots of HR people don't have much
leeway on hiring price. HR does a lot more than just hire
people. Benefits, payroll, handling employee conflicts,
workers comp, dealing with unions, etc etc. There's a lot
of crap that falls into HRs laps.
\_ crap is an understatement.
\_ why are you asking, anyway?
\_ I'm curious, that's all. Plus it doesn't hurt to know how the
salary process works.
\_ "It depends". Ranges from "tell this guy I am hiring about legal
stuff and arrange contract/$$$" to actually hiring, dealing with
trainings and evaluations, firing, management development, etc.
Varies enormously by company. Usually non-management HR is
staffed by planks (general observation.) -John
\_ The cruel truth is that HR's main role is to prevent the Company
from being sued. ie., all the employee happy relations programs,
mediations, comp/benefit structures, compliance, training, etc.
That's my understanding. --chris (who was in HR and recruiting) |
| 2005/10/16-18 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:40129 Activity:nil |
10/16 So any sun old timers still reading the motd? I was recently named a
SARC "intern" and I wanted to find out if anyone has been through the
"intern" process and if they had any tips/pointers. txn.
\_ I'm a Sun "old timer" in several ways, especially if you count me
playing with the first prototypes when I was 11 years old ... I
was a Sun intern in summer of 1991 and had a blast. My take from
that was that if you actually do useful work and get anything
accomplished you can get a job there once you graduate (I did).
You get to meet Scott McNealy and hear his puppy calendar stories
and for me it was the most fun I've ever had in a job, especially
with the huge water battle between SunSoft and SunLabs. -eric
\_ maybe I wasn't clear - I'm a staff eng at sun and I was put
on the Software ARC (arch. review committee), and I wanted
to get some pointers on what ARC members do, &c.
\_ Nope that wasn't clear. I joined Sun as an MTS-1 and only
worked there 2 1/2 years so I never got anywhere in that
regard -eric
\_ neato. sounds like a paper pushing job.
\_ From what I can tell it is mostly paper pushing, but
this is in addition to my regular job, so it just
means more work for me. |
| 2005/10/9-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40029 Activity:moderate |
10/9 Is it legal for a developer or someone to use your homeowner's
association fee for anything other than community improvement?
Is it possible for some of the money to go back to the developer?
\_ It depends on what you agreed to. It might be okay for them
to use some of the money for "administrative expenses", but
if they are pocketing a large portion of it you might have
something to complain about. |
| 2005/10/5-6 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:39990 Activity:moderate |
10/5 Hypothetical question: Suppose there's a shortage of resources,
should the free market take its course which will hopefully
make self-corrections, or should the government intervene and
ration resources? What are the pros and cons for either approaches?
\_ don't know about pro and con, I just know that in reality,
free market is never allowed to distribute critical/essential
resources anywhere in the world during severe shortage, rather
it is food, water, petro, or steel.
\_ It happens everyday. A house costs more than an apple because
houses are harder to build and require more resources to do so
than an apple. A car costs more than an apple but less than a
house for the same reason. What is your question?
\- A1 steak sauce is $5. You can get a DVD player for $30.
I am not sure these things are really "a priori".
\_ Wrong comparison. How about comparing the A1 to the
B&O DVD player instead, or the generic brand sauce to
the no-namo DVD player? Either the more expensive one
took more work/more expensive ingredients, or they
successfully created an artificial demand (viz.
Godiva $5 chocolate covered strawberries.) Either
way you've proven that the market sets prices. -John
\- i am not sure what your point is but i didnt
really elabroate on mine. 10 years ago i think
somebody reflecting on "how difficult is it to
make steak sauce vs a dvd player" probably would
not have guessed the difference in price would
be under 6:1. so this idea of "difficulty" is
probably not meaningful outside the mkt price.
i am getting at the notion of price signals
in the hayakian sense. in fact i think you
should abandon the whole notion of "difficulty
to build" or resource use and just look at things
more abstractly ... this building/resource approach
might apply to mfgring [but really you have to
look at return on optimal mix of K,L since something
can become "easier" by investing more money] but
really doesnt apply to something like haircuts.
in the abstract setting you consider price,
willingness to pay, the difference being consumer
surplus, the marginal and average costs and then
thigns can get more complicated when you factor
in asymmetric information [like when the same
in assymetric information [like when the same
disposable contact lenses were sold at different
prices because they were labelled for diff #hrs].
here is an interesting question: movies clearly
cost $10m to $200m+ ... but why are all movie
tickets ~$10.
\_ Partha, It would be much easier to reply to you
if you used a spelling checker and didn't
ramble for 3 pages. As it is, I don't assume
that you're interested. -John
\_ Because the cost of a $200m is spread over a
much larger number of viewers. A blockbuster
will make a billion $ in sales (us, domestic, and
dvd) vs a less expensive film which is also less
likely to be known and recover it's costs. Also,
a big chunk of the "cost" of a $200m film is in
marketing and PR and often a $50MM/film hollywood
actor. I suspect most films will do just as well
or as poorly without all that junk heaped on top
of the base production cost. For example, the
Spiderman flick did super well with a no-name
actor (and now every moron in hollywood wants to
be a super hero) but Electra was a total bomb and
so was Dare Devil with well known actors who made
oodles more cash than the SM kid. Ok, nvm, I'm
way off topic and now ranting about the stupidity
of hollywood. I feel better now. :-)
\_ Why can't I afford to buy a house when I am a hardworking
intelligent person, while some dot-com millionaire who got
his money through sheer good luck instead of hard work lives
in a mansion and has a hot girlfriend?
\_ Because you live in the Bay area(or southern california).
\_ Because you live in the Bay area (or southern california).
It really is that simple. Anywhere else in the country
you'd be able to afford a home. No, I don't know how much
you make, but in most of the country, buying a house with
a 25k/year salary is feasable.
\_ You should've gone to medical school.
\_ This is why I stopped being a coder and went to law
school.
BTW, perhaps you should look down as well as up - there
are BILLIONS of people in this world who weren't lucky
enough to be born into a country where opportunity and
prosperity is everywhere and hardly anyone concerns
themselves about things like potable water and edible
food. One may easily ask what EXACTLY we did to deserve
our comfortable existence while everyone else continues
to struggle just to survive.
\_ Except many lawyers don't make all that much more than
a good s/w engineer. There might be more job security,
but maybe not. Medical school is your best bet.
\_ The problem w/ engineering is that there is no
long term job prospect - esp. in the valley.
Whatever your skill set is, it eventually goes
stale and some young kid is going to be better
at your job and mgmt can get rid of you and pay
him less to get the same work.
The practice of law is different, experience counts
and many practice areas never go stale b/c people
keep having the same problems over and over again.
BTW, the pay is better ~ 110-125K start.
\- also lawyers and doctors are smarter about
restricting competition.
\_ Are lawyers and doctors smarter about restricting
competition, or is less competent engineering
more acceptable (in the sense less subject to
remedy by the court system) than less competent
medical or legal service? Not in the sense that
foreign engineers are less competent, but that
official certification of engineering training
has greater value.
\_ I think he means that you can't practice
as a doctor/lawyer unless you pass an exam
and its reasonably hard to pass that exam.
There is nothing comparable to that in eng.
Sure there is PE, but outside of Civil hardly
anyone cares. In coding I'm not exactly
sure what difference an exam would make
b/c most of the really good coders I've met
were mathematicians, physicists, &c. rather
than EE/CS so an exam might actually keep
good people out.
Re less competent engineering - Just work
on any big project and you will find lots
of stuff that doesn't work or wasn't well
thought out, &c. The impact of something
like this is less unlike giving someone
the wrong medication or failing to file
a motion in a timely fashion, &c. At worst
you will lose some money.
\- the practice is law is defined very
broadly [see the infamous Nolo v.
Texas case. I actually wonder if
HARRIET THE JUDGE had a role in that]
as are medical practices ... like
you cannot to the best of my knowledge
go to a dental hygenist for a tooth
cleaning without a dentist involved
or go to an optician for a an
eye power measurement. however a non
PE engineer can do lots of work. my
parent never bothered to get a PE till
maybe 15yrs after his phd and had
billions of dollars of projects
under his belt. in the 70s the AMA
made certain certification test changes
specfically targetted at incoming
russian and indian doctors. i actually
think there are a fair number of sort
of iffy doctors. as they saying goes,
"what do they call the guy who graduated
at the bottom of his med school class?"
"doctor". but yeah, probably fewer
leem doctors because there arent that
many med schools. there are a lot of
clown lawyers and a huger number of
leem law schools and some of them may
have automatic bar pass ... i doubt
a lot of the PDs in boise are very good.
\_ no matter how many clown lawyers
\_ not matter how many clown lawyers
there are - and I agree there are
lots and lots of clowns - there
are clearly many more clown eng-
ineers. It doesn't take much to
get an engineering degree or to
find a entry level engineering
job. Maybe you don't meet these
\_ I believe it is harder to get an
engineering degree than a law
degree.
\_ Law school seems far
more difficult to me.
In engineering you
could get by w/o do-
ing much (I managed
3.0+ and I can barely
integrate)
\_ Did you take any humanities
classes? Anyone can get
a 3.0 at a CSU and get
into a mediocre law
school. Overall, I find
the average engineer to
be much smarter than
the average lawyer.
\- I was pretty much in
the middle of the pack
in upper div and grad
math/science classes
I took, but I was
definitely "order of
coif" the ConLaw,
coif"/summa in ConLaw,
I took (and at the dumb
end of a few seminars),
but I was definitely
"order of coif"/summa
cum laude in ConLaw,
Law&Econ, BusinessLaw,
Legal Philosophy, Legal
History and Law Seminars
I took.
I took, however these
were in academic depts,
not the law school for
the most part. (--not PP)
the most part. The people
in philosophy were prob
the smartest humanities
people. (--not PP)
people and a few smart
in econ. Pol Sci and Bus
school people were dumb
or apathetic usually.
(--not PP)
in my experience hum/
socsci grad students
in legit depts who are
legit admits are usually
sharper than most Boalt
students. (--not PP)
\_ I took a few, but
I mostly avoided
humanities b/c they
were a lot more work
than upper-division
engineering classes.
I'm guessing that if
someone like me can
make it through cal
engineering, it must
be *really* easy to
get an engineering
degree.
jokers in the ivory tower, but
I used to bump into them every
day in the valley.
\- hello, accroding to Bureau
of Labor Statistics:
stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
compared to ~.9million people
licensed to practice law.
\_ Maybe I'm reading this
wrong but according to
bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm
there are about 700K
lawyers, while there
are about 1.5 million
engineers (+ 675K soft-
ware engineers:
bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm).
\- there are a lot of
"paraengineers" who may
be called engineers, while
there are paralegals who
are not lawyers. i have to
go to mcdonalds now.
russian and indian doctors.
job.
\_ so what? is your
determination of
what an engineer
is somehow more
authoritative?
\_ I read an article in WSJ that says lots of
companies are outsourcing jobs to lawyers in
India (eg. patent research). It also says
that in India job status ranking is:
engineer > doctor > accoutant > lawyer
Is that true?
\_ Re outsourcing - what I've seen is
that some of the grunt work of writing
a patent and lots of the prior art
searching has been moved offshore,
but the real legal work (esp. in
litigation and patent counseling
remains here).
Re India job ranking - partially true.
Software engineers are at the top of
the totem pole, but regular engineers
aren't that highly regarded b/c there
are so many of them. Until about 6 or
7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian
Administrative Service - civil servants).
\_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However,
many lawyers think that the grunt work
is where lots of good skills are
learned. You don't start at the top.
It's akin to outsourcing medical
residents, but not practicing doctors.
FWIW, lots of radiology is also being
outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe
either.
Re India job ranking - partially true.
Software engineers are at the top of
the totem pole, but regular engineers
aren't that highly regarded b/c there
are so many of them. Until about 6 or
7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian
Administrative Service - civil servants).
Being a doctor was an okay line of work
but it didn't really fetch you much more
money than anyone else.
medical or legal service?
\_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However,
many lawyers think that the grunt work
is where lots of good skills are
learned. You don't start at the top.
It's akin to outsourcing medical
residents, but not practicing doctors.
FWIW, lots of radiology is also being
outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe
either.
\_ No, you are wrong regarding the valley, but you
have to work your way pretty far up the food chain
to realize that.
\_ I know lots of people who have been working
in the valley for 25+ yrs and I'm pretty
sure its true. Unless you move into mgmt
or something, there are no longer term
prospects.
\_ Trust me, you're wrong. The trick is not
"25+ years" but rather "pretty far up the
food chain". There are engineers with 25+
years of experience who are mostly worthless,
just as there are engineers whose worth never
expires.
\_ Maybe so, but what I noticed was that
high on the food chain positions mostly
went to politically connected people
rather than competent people (this is
at a big company - maybe startups and
vc firms are better).
at a big company though).
Anyway, making it high up the food
chain wasn't really an option for
me, so I chose something w/ more
stability and similar (or slightly
higher) pay.
\_ I can drop names if you wish. Are you
at Sun? The first generation of DE's
were mostly impressive, and many are
still technical. I am friends with
several (ehf, agn, and tvh--ehf is
officially a vp, tho he's still technical
and has no direct reports, i think; agn
got burned and is back at cmu again, i
hear; tvh is still retired, though his
role was technical and not managerial at
artx). I am less sure of the current
crop of Sun DE's. I was more thinking
of Gunning or Dobberpuhl when I answered
your original claim.
\_ I'm at Sun. I've met some current
\_ I'm Sun. I've met some current
DEs and I wasn't impressed - they
were mostly political appointees.
The major exception was Diffie,
but he's Diffie and I'm just random
coder.
My promotion from MTS to Staff
The promotion from MTS to Staff
Eng. also seemed to have a lot more
to do w/ politics than skill, which
was disheartening, esp. considering
I was responsible for a moderately
successful product that actually
makes money vs. the people who were
considering my promotion hadn't
shipped an actual product in 5+ yrs.
shipped a actual product in 5+ yrs.
I've also gone through the ARC
several times and the people were
pretty useless but they certainly
had job stability.
I also worked w/ some of the orig.
UNIX team at Bell Labs and saw
them get forced out b/c of bs
politics by complete tools.
\_ This is probably because
lots of the 1st generation
were academics. They have
given way (necessarily,
IMO) to businessmen who are
less special but possess a
different set of skills.
Maybe I'm just a little jaded.
I figure the legal thing is a
bit better b/c you can get a
decent practice going and just
stick to that.
\_ The first generation of DE's were
all pretty special, and even the
senior staffs from that era were
significantly smart. Since then,
I've been told DE's have beomce
yet another promotion and are now
much less special.
food chain".
\_ The people I know are at senior staff
eng. or principal eng. (or mgmt equiv
at director). I guess if you can make
DE or VP you can get some measure of
job security but I don't know too many
people who can get that far.
politics by complete fools.
\_ This is probably because
lots of the 1st generation
were academics. They have
given way (necessarily,
IMO) to businessmen who are
less special but possess a
different set of skills.
\_ The pay is marginally better. If you look at
salary averages there are a lot of lawyers not
making even $100K.
\_ Sure, but most lawyers aren't in technical
practice areas (patent, copyright). So few
lawyers can understand the science/technology
needed that the pay is much higher in those
areas.
\_ Well, this is like comparing the salary
of a surgeon to a pediatrician. Most
lawyers COULD NOT PRACTICE in a technical
area if they wanted to.
\_ The problem w/ engineering is that whatever your
skill set it eventually goes stale and some young
kid is going to be better at your job and mgmt can
get rid of you and pay him less to get the same
work.
The practice of law is different - and if you don't
like one area of practice or that area starts to
dry up you can always go work for a real estate
or insurance firm.
\_ No, you are wrong. But you have to work your way
pretty far up the food chain to realize that.
\_ sure, but I was responding to wages
in comparison to being a coder - the
income potential for a former coder
lawyer in a tech practice is quite
high.
\_ If the price naturally rises, it will allow substitutes which
were previously not feasible to enter the market. So allowing
the price to rise will potentially increase total supply.
\- it depends why there is a shortage. govt intervention !=
govt should provide/subsidize it. govt repsonses can include
things like changing ip regime. if you want a generic frame-
work to think about this, do mircoecon. if you want to talk
about a spcific case, you should mention what it is. in the
real world it's often unclear what constitutes a "shortage"
[is there a shortage of diamonds?] just like it is often
unclear if a firm has market (monopoly) power. also a "supply
shock" is not the same as a persistent shortage, say in the
case of water or power. the govt probably should not intervene
in the RARE MAGIC CARD mkt. and finally it depends on the
govt. a bad govt can clearly make things worse. see e.g.
AK Sen's work on famines.
\_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in san jose.
\_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in the bay area.
SOMETHING must be done!
\_ free h07 4zn ch1x for 1337 c0d3r5! w00t!
his money through sheer good luck lives in a mansion and has
a hot girlfriend?
case of water or power. |
| 2005/10/3-5 [Industry/Jobs, Recreation/Travel] UID:39962 Activity:nil |
10/3 Going to be in SF on business. Any recommendations for hotels? So far
I am leaning towards the Omni or the Mandarin Oriental. Four
Seasons and Ritz are out (cost). Anyone have experience with those
two or know one better in the same price range (<=$300/night)? --dim
\_ Mark Hopkins and Nikko are both nice. Park Hyatt is good if you
want to be in the financial district, but otherwise boring.
\_ Any experience with those I mentioned? I was considering
Park Hyatt, since it costs a lot less but it also seems less
nice.
\_ My parents really like it. Their bathroom on the 2nd floor
has the best toilet paper I've ever used. For a five star
hotel, it seems very basic and no frills, without the pure
brand name of the other hotels mentioned above. I've never
been to NYC, but it has that feeling (e.g. guys with weird
hats who open doors for you)
\_ W if you like really dark hallways with dim blue lighting and you
like everyone dressed in black. The rooms are cozy though.
\_ "W" was an option, but I think is out because of the
location and some negative reviews I read on tripadvisor.
\_ Shame you can't spring for Four Seasons or the Ritz, but if you
happen to find the extra budget, go for Four Seasons. Great
hotel. The views from the MO are great, but I thought my room
was small, and it wasn't nearly as posh as the MO's in the Orient.
My cousin swears by the Huntington, and he's something of an
expert on luxury hotels (he spends ~100 nights a year in hotels).
I've never visited, so I can't speak from 1st person experience
I've never visited, so I can speak from 1st person experience
though. -tse
\_ OBTW, I've been told the regular rooms at the Ritz Carlton
feel old. I can attest that the club rooms (IMHO the only
reason to stay at RC properties anyway) are very nice. -tse
\- IMHO, campton place food > huntington food. |
| 2005/9/28-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39918 Activity:nil |
9/28 High Times magazine hiring:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/wri/100343188.html |
| 2005/9/22-23 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39819 Activity:nil |
9/22 My group is looking to hire a part-time student sysadmin:
/csua/pub/jobs/Linux_Cluster_Admin_UCB_EECS_Student -mikeh |
| 2005/9/16-19 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39711 Activity:nil |
9/16 I'm currently a software engineer at a mid-size company... thinking
of taking a contract job at a small company that would be able to
convert to a full-time job in the future (basically they've already
offered me full-time but I'd like a contract to try them out and
see how the work/environment is) ... how much more should I ask
for given that I'm (1) switching jobs, and (2) going to a contract
from a FT salary. I'm guessing health ins (thru COBRA or free-
lancers union?) will cost around ~$300/month at most? thanks
\_ The usual add on is +25-30% of salary. This includes SS, medical,
dental, vision, life insurance, overhead, etc.
\_ I usually get 2-2.5x for short contracts. You should get paid
for the extra flexibility the contract affords the employer and
for the extra risk you're carrying.
\_ good god, why is health insurance that expensive??
\_ Your company health insurance is expensive because it is not
underwritten. COBRA is just a continuation of that.
\_ Have you ever had surgery? If you have, you know why. Even
tests like MRIs are a couple of thousand bucks. A moderately
complicated surgery will cost tens of thousands.
\_ I suspect ridiculous health insurance costs would receive a
lot more objection if people actually paid them themselves,
rather than letting their employers eat the expense.
\_ sounds like work environment is pretty important to you, and that
you must have it pretty good at your current job. make sure
that money will be worth the sacrifice of your happiness.
\_ current job is ok ... good in some ways. "change is good" ...
sometimes. |
| 2005/9/5-6 [Recreation/Shopping, Industry/Jobs, Recreation/Dating] UID:39511 Activity:high |
9/5 I patronized a Walmart for the first time, and it was a spectacular
shopping experience. The people there were incredibly helpful, even
after it became obvious that I would not be buying from them. My wife
so appreciated their helpfulness that she kept asking me if there was
some way to tip them or otherwise pay them for their service. Two
big thumbs up on Walmart from my wife and I.
\_ No DUH!!! They are first and foremost a business. They train
employees to be nice to everyone, and even teach them how to
talk to liberals in such a way that even liberals will start to
shop at Walmart. I have no problem with the way front-end clerks
treat the people. It is the back-end of Walmart that is fucked up.
\_ I was treated much worse at the Costco a block away, where
the employee told me to fuck off, though he did do it politely.
The Walmart employees (I was helped by 3 of them) were helpful
even after it was obvious that I would not be buying from
them. In fact, that visit to Walmart was possibly the best
shopping experience I've ever had. The only other comparable
service experience was when the concierge at my Paris hotel
(the Hotel de Crillon, also highly recommended) got me same-day
tapes of the World Series and delivered hot dogs room service
(and I had to pay for the hot dogs). -op
\- Was the concierge hot?
\- g'vitch: boy i sure wouldnt have predicted CRILLON to come up
in a WALMART thread. did you have the SUPER CALVADOS? (at the
Hotel Crillon, not W'mart). --bibendum
in a WALMART thread. did you have the super CALVADOS? at the H
otel Crillon, not W'mart).
\_ KGV > Crillon :-) -John
\_ it has been my experience the merchandise at walmart is
not very high quality but i have weird shopping needs - danh
\- Is Walmart different from Target? I thought
target had some reasonably priced minor appliances.
I think I bought a peeler or an iron or something
like that there. Costco is sort of horrifying. --psb
\_ it's definitely bad to have your beefcake boytoys breaking
out of their cheap handcuffs.
\_ I was in one near Sacramento for the first (and last) time last
year. It was like some twisted circle of hell; I kept expecting
Mr. Kurtz to pop out of the bushes gasping "the horror, the
horror". Full of white & black trash, massively overweight people
including women in stained stirrup pants with screaming children
and carts full of horrible fatty starchy food. Broken toys and
torn cheap household articles / clothing everywhere; my girlfriend
came up to me with this horrified look on her face after finding
the size 38 dresses next to the family-sized tubs of candy. Also
the Marines recruiters and the morbidly obese people out front
selling brand-knockoff jesus t-shirts out front and the staff
resembling badly groomed zombies stumbling around wild-eyed sort
of complemented the general atmosphere. Shudder. -John
\- You need to go to the Walmart in Hillsborough.
\- You need to go to the Walmart in Hillborough.
\_ A couple of years ago i went into the Walmart in Cancun, and
except that all the prices were in pesos, and the electronics
section still sold NES games, the place looked the same as many
of the Walmarts I've seen in the San Joaquin Valley |
| 2005/8/31 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39375 Activity:nil |
8/31 What does: "We want someone with less experience" mean?
\_ "We want someone we can pay less."
\_ "You're not good enough, but we're too nice to tell you that."
\_ "The old-timers are afraid you'll get promoted over them."
\_ "I'm the PHB"
\_ "We want someone we can mold and shape", "we're afraid you're going
to get bored and leave" (hiring someone costs money), "we don't want
you questioning the boss' authority" -John
\_ "We don't want promiscuous women to be our wives."
\_ Either they don't want to pay you what you should be paid or
they don't think you are goign to be interested in the job because
a lot of it is boring scutt work and senior engineers tend to get
bored when all they do is scutt work. |
| 2005/8/23-24 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39232 Activity:nil |
8/23 My brother is an engineering manager at Apple (iTunes Music Store).
His group is looking to hire a mid/sr level SW engineer. We do our
development in WebObjects, but a solid understanding and practical
experience with appservers in general is more important than specific
knowledge of Java or WebObjects. Email me if you're interested or
have questions. -abe |
| 2005/8/16-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39139 Activity:nil |
8/16 GUI OS on 8-bit Commodore 64!
http://www.zimmers.net/geos
\_ Looks remarkably like KDE.
\_ BSW used to hire great numbers of UCB coop students. They were
in the building right next to the Berkeley BART station.
\_ BSW, later GeoWorks and then Geoworks, used to hire only co-ops
\_ BSW, later GeoWorks and now Geoworks, used to hire only co-ops
and only from Cal for engineers in its early days. The first VP
Engr started as a co-op. It was 1995 (when the dot-com boom
started?) when it had to resort to hiring fresh grads and hiring
from other schools. The company was in the penthouse of the
Great Western Bank building next to BART. The bank logo at its
entrance was, incidentally, "GW".
\_ I remember all the typefaces were named after streets in
Berkeley. There was a pc version that I ran on my first
laptop--a tandy 286.
\_ I think the latest version is available through
http://www.breadbox.com |
| 2005/8/15-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39128 Activity:kinda low |
8/15 Job Market temperature check:
\_ 103.2! Get the market some tylenol, stat!
\_ So natural gas is liquified, but nitrogen is still in the
gaseous state. Not so hot. Or did you mean Fahrenheit?
\_ Degree Celsius.
\_ does that equate to several offers in a few weeks?
\_ That equates to saying absolutely nothing
\_ Definitely warming up, but more like a zombie crawling out
of the grave than anything too zippy. |
| 2005/8/8-11 [Academia/GradSchool, Academia/UCLA, Industry/Jobs] UID:39055 Activity:nil |
8/8 Any students actually read motd? The Yahoo! Login and Registration
team is looking for a fresh college grad to write perl and
shell scripts. This position is for fresh college grads only.
If interested, send resumes to atom at yahoo-inc dot com
\_ I'm a starving PhD student and I am desperate for money. How
much do they pay and are they near UCLA? And how much referal
money do you get, and would you like to split with me? I'll take
33% of your referal. |
| 2005/8/8-11 [Industry/Jobs, Consumer/CellPhone, Industry/Startup] UID:39054 Activity:nil |
8/9 Work with Anthony and Brian! Again! We have yet another position
open, this time as a BREW developer doing pretty interesting cell
phone applications/server side support for pretty interesting cell
phone applications. Startup in Emeryville with VC. -aspo |
| 2005/7/29-31 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:38871 Activity:nil |
7/29 Anyone have any experience with (or other comments on) buying
from http://PCDirect.com? There doesn't seem to be much negative about them
posted online, and yet their prices (I'm looking at complete systems,
no OS) are noticeably lower than what I've seen elsewhere. I'm
naturally wondering where the catch is.
\- boy i thought you were talking about "professional cutlery
direct" whom i would have given a solid endorsement. |
| 2005/7/22-25 [Computer/Companies/Google, Industry/Jobs] UID:38779 Activity:moderate |
7/22 I've found Google to be a good company. If you want a full-time job or
internship and I happen to know you on a first-name basis, contact me via
phone or email and I'll see what I can do to get you in.
darin @ csua, 314-283-1234.
\_ Can you get them to stop calling me?
\_ Don't bother applying if you're conservative.
\_ Let me guess. You blew the interview due to poor social skills,
and now you want to blame it on the liberal conspiracy to keep
the white man down?
\_ No, just following news reports. Have never interviewed with
Google.
\_ Which news reports?
\_ http://csua.org/u/ctm
\_ From that you assume that they "discriminate against
conservative hires?" You are really really stupid,
and you have likely never dealt with IT hiring.
\_ Is it "jump to conclusions" day? I said don't
bother applying. I didn't say they were
discriminating, I just got the impression that
they're raging lefties and you wouldn't want to be
around them. And you'd have to work with aaron.
Ick.
\_ Ooh, anonymous personal attacks. You are a
bright one.
GOOD. Kudos to Google for rejecting religious -/
and conservative ads. We're fed up, and it's
about time us liberals stand up to the bullying
of religious fuck heads.
\_ Don't compound "news reports" guy's stupidity with your own.
\_ I think it's probably fair to say the Google workplace is
fairly apolitical, but I do think the founders have a
left-wing bias, and this does reflect in some company
policies I find objectionable. Are you afraid to hang
out with liberals because you think they might contaminate
your precious bodily fluids? -- ilyas
\_ I'd hate to be in a work environment where the political
opinions of the people there affect policy at work. I'd
be afraid to give a conservative opinion without
retribution. ilyas, you work at Google? That raises my
opinion of the company.
\_ No, I do not. I interviewed at Google before I went
to UCLA, but did not get the job. They recently
contacted me again, I guess they ran out of all the
good people to hire. I think Google deserves a lot of
credit for enlightened things they do as a company.
I hope to see their good example followed. Having
said that, I disagree with many of their corporate
decisions. -- ilyas
\_ Well, I'm a liberal, and gay, and whatever Google
does I support them because they respect and
embrace diversity. I wish the Religious
dictators would just fuck off. GO GOOGLE. And
fuck you ilyas.
\_ You on the other hand don't seem to.
\_ Want to work at PlanetOut? Email me. -ausman
\_ He's a troll. Nobody is this dumb. -- ilyas |
| 2005/7/3-5 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38402 Activity:low |
7/3 NYTimes claims profits but not jobs are up in the Valley:
http://csua.org/u/clj
Does this jibe with anyone else's experience? Seems like the job
market is plenty hot for engineers with clue.
\_ And lots of good engineers are medium level engineers. The world
needs them too. Who else is going to do the scut work?
\_ I find it hard to believe that a woman with 5 years of project
management experience for KPMG couldn't find work. She's kinda
\_ "... went to work in 1997 as a project manager and a Web
designer for technology companies ... [and] quitting the
consulting firm KPMG in 2002..." It's unclear from this
description if she actually has any useful skills, especially
given the frothy bubble job market.
cute, too. Still, the job market looks bleak overall and not
just for s/w engineers. It's bad in a lot of disciplines,
including aerospace and chemical. Civil engineering seems
strong, but that's an exception. The US economy is bleeding
highly paid/highly skilled jobs as far as I can see. It's
not just outsourcing, but that companies are slashing R&D as
a form of belt-tightening that makes sense in the short-term
and is suicidal in the long-term.
\_ That is actually a bad picture of her, she is super hot.
\_ http://tinyurl.com/9hmfd *ahem*. "Super hot". -John
She used to work as a project manager at PlanetOut but
we restructured and laid off all the project managers. |
| 2005/6/28-30 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38340 Activity:nil |
6/29 http://earth.google.com Download and be amazed. \_ FYI to other potential downloaders: It streams data from http://google.com to aquire higher-resolution maps depending on which locations you view and caches the data. Yes, this means application speed depends on bandwidth. \_ Taken down (temporarily) due to technical difficulties (6/29) |
| 2005/6/23-25 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38274 Activity:low |
6/23 BART employees want a 17% raise. What's the current inflation rate?
\_ Hey, I want a 17% raise too. Why don't you shove your inflation
rate up your ass?
\_ I second this inquiry.
\_ BART salaries have been frozen for 4 years
\_ You mean there was no one-time raise at the beginning of this
4-yr period?
\_ The expiring BART contract has 4-year raises totaling 22%.
Union officials claim the proposal for the next contract calls
for a wage freeze of 4 years and a 13% cut of benefits.
http://csua.org/u/ci0
\_ I just got a 14% raise this month. That was after a 4% raise
last September.
\_ 22% for the past 4 years? I only got 7% over the past 4 years
with little job security and I'm already among the lucky ones
in the industry. These BART employees got 3+ times the raise.
Now they want 17% for 3 years? That's even higher.
\_ A different perspective: http://csua.org/u/ci8
\_ I just got a 14% raise, on top of a 4% raise last October.
Why is this being deleted? Jealous or something? |
| 2005/6/22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38250 Activity:nil |
6/22 Celequest (http://www.celequest.com has an immediate opening for an intern. Anyone looking for an internship can email your resume sweiss@celequest. Looking for someone experienced in Java, XML, Databases, J2EE, SQL, or a good combination of the above. I know this doesn't belong on the motd, but we want to fill this position quickly. -steve \_ Only political flame wars belong on the motd! \_ Is it sweiss@celequest.com? |
| 2005/6/20-22 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38204 Activity:low |
6/20 While I was talking to my manager about promotion, he told me about
"technical track" and "management track". Basically what he says is
that if I don't (can't?) become a manager, I can still be promoted
along the technical track, where positions at different levels are
equivalent to those at respective levels on the management track. The
only difference is that I don't manage people. Is my manager BS'ing
me? Is this "technical track" thing common in other companies? Are
engineers on the technical track really as highly regarded as managers
at the same levels on the management track? Thanks.
\_ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000038.html
Side note:
Unfortunately, many level 14 or 15 people are there because they
founded the company, not because they are super-studs. A company
can survive just by having really good level 11-13 people who can
ensure there are good level 8-10 people coming in, direct them
efficiently, and retain them.
founded the company, not because they are super-studs (not that
there's anything wrong with that).
A company can survive just by having really good level 11-13 people
who can ensure there are good level 8-10 people coming in, direct
them efficiently, and retain them; or just on the backs of the level
11-13 people themselves.
\_ It's common for companies to claim they have a separate mgmt and
technical track. It's also common for the technical track to
be not well defined. Large companies tend to be better at
actually having a well defined technical track. -oj
\_ That, and I've seen the rewards (bonuses, salary) start
diverging pretty wildly between the two once the "technical
track" people start becoming more experienced. This may be
because I've dealt mainly with bank types with a very short-
term outlook who think they can get more value for the money
by hiring 2 monkeys each paid $x instead of 1 guru paid $3x,
has anyone else seen this? -John
\_ Sounds like
\_ Veritas has senior engineering positions like Distinguised Engineer.
charmer is a DE at Veritas and has a Director's office. I hear
that Sun has a similar program.
\_ This is true at JPL, and probably other places with lots of
PhDs. It's a way to reward good science and engineering w/o
making people managers who don't want to be and/or who are not
good at it. Positions like "Chief Technologist" and "Research
Fellow" are very prestigious technical positions that also pay
similar to their management equivalents. However, the reality
is that technical track positions are far, far more competitive
to obtain and managers who are semi-dufuses can make the same as
some really good technical people. If you love your job, are
good at it, and hating managing people, go for technical track.
Otherwise, go for the management track. In the end, I think
management is more versatile as a career and is involved more in
decision-making. Technical people can become 'gurus' but still
ultimately answer to someone in management. |
| 2005/6/18-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38184 Activity:nil |
6/19 Does Abercrombie and Fitch hire colored people now? Or are they still
hiring whites only?
\_ They have always hired colored folks, the problem was they weren't
in the front part of the store. |
| 2005/6/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38148 Activity:low |
6/15 Felis Cattus, is your taxonomic nomenclature,
an endothermic quadruped carnivorous by nature?
Your visual, olfactory and auditory senses
contribute to your hunting skills, and natural defenses.
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations,
a singular development of cat communications
that obviates your basic hedonistic predilection
for a rhythmic stroking of your fur, to demonstrate affection.
A tail is quite essential for your acrobatic talents;
you would not be so agile if you lacked its counterbalance.
And when not being utilized to aide in locomotion,
it often serves to illustrate the state of your emotion.
O Spot, the complex levels of behaviour you display
connote a fairly well-developed cognitive array.
And though you are not sentient, Spot, and do not comprehend,
I nonetheless consider you a true and valued friend.
\_ I had a cat, his name was Fred
used to sleep on my bed
fought a truck, now he's dead
but wait, check it out, I kept his head. -John
\_ Hubba-hubba hubba-hubba hubba. |
| 2005/6/10-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38075 Activity:low |
6/10 Job opening at the White House, Media division. Job description:
"The White House is seeking a dynamic marketing candidate to manage
our Media and Relationship division. Consider this excellent
opportunity to grow with our team. Responsibilities include
providing leadership and vision to our team success, recruit and
train media personnel, execute an effective sales and marketing
strategy, and to market ideas that retroactively justify our war
on Iraq. We offer a competitive compensation package, health,
dental, 401K, ESPP, as well as an atmosphere conducive to
achieving excellence. Submit resumes to: marketing@whitehouse.gov"
\_ Is there a link to this?
\_ Nice try. White House doesn't issue stocks, hence no ESPP. Unless
you're talking about http://whitehouse.com which may issue stocks, but then
you're not according to the e-mail address. 401(k) is not for govt.
employees.
\_ Probably not the case @ the White House, but how's this work
with govt. contractors? -John
\_ Haven't you heard? The gov't's been for sale now for a long
time. |
| 2005/6/9-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:38062 Activity:low |
6/9 "unemployment rate edged down to 5.1 percent, its lowest since
September 2001"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050609/bs_nm/economy_mortgages_dc
Is the job market really that good?
\_ Walmart will employ two for the price of one, and they're really
expanding! Thank God for Walmart, and God Bless.
\_ For engineers yes. It's hard to tell for other professional
positions, but anecdotal evidence from friends suggests it's
hard for them. The other thing is that the unemployment rate
measures only those who are on unemployment insurance, which isn't
a particularly good measure. The better measure is the number of
new jobs created in a month, and how it compares with working
population growth.
\_ No, the unemployment rates include people who are registered
as looking for work, whether they are drawing unemployment
insurance or not.
insurance or not. They do some kind of survey.
\_ Mmm...ass talking.
\_ Look, I was nice to your completely uninformed dumbass
comment before, but I won't now. You are 100% full of
comment before, but I won't be now. You are 100% full of
shit and you are a fool for pretending like you know
what you are talking about when you obviously have no
fucking clue:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
"Some people think that to get these figures on
unemployment the Government uses the number of persons
filing claims for unemployment insurance (UI) benefits
under State or Federal Government programs. But some
people are still jobless when their benefits run out,
and many more are not eligible at all or delay or never
apply for benefits. So, quite clearly, UI information
cannot be used as a source for complete information
on the number of unemployed."
You can apologize for being an ignorant fucktard anytime.
\_ I apologize.
\_ Oh sheesh, aren't you going to make a yermom
joke or anything?
\_ Lots of low paying jobs out there.
\_ accounting / finance jobs are plentiful these days. all the hot
money head girls I know are finding / switching jobs.
\_ They are hot and give head for money. Sounds like a career
plan.
\_ Only in your geek fantasies. Is that *really* how you read
that sentence?
\_ perhaps you meant money-head (or some variation of it)?
\_ perhaps you meant money-head (or some variation thereof)? |
| 2005/5/24-26 [Computer/SW/Security, Industry/Jobs] UID:37825 Activity:moderate |
5/24 How common are contract-based bonuses for service-oriented software
companies as a form of profit-sharing?
E.g., the company wins a 1 million dollar contract.
The sales guy for the contract gets x% of $1 million;
The lead engineer on the project gets y%;
Other engineers who will be working on the project get z%.
Yes, the sales guy has a base salary and makes much more from
commissions, which is how this normally works.
Currently our bonus system is the standard annual bonus (the boss
decides at the end of the year how much bonus you get, which ends
up being ~ 5%).
\_ Why is this a question? You can structure payment for services
any way you want as long as it is not unconscionable.
\_ "how common are ... for ...", not "is it possible"
\_ "how common are ... for ..."
\_ Very good, you apparently understand basic semantics.
I still don't understand why this is a question. If you
want your firm to move towards a direct percentage based
system based on profits vs. a fixed annual bonus then
bring it up with your super. Why should it matter if it
is followed by a majority of other consulting firms?
\_ I've never seen a commission system for anyone other than sales.
For IT/Engineering, if there is a bonus system is usually "up to
x% of salary per quarter". One place I worked at did profit
sharing at .1% of profits for most, while some with seniority
got more.
\_ <yeah, like your retarded nonsensical comment, dipshit>
\_ OP: you should deal with retarded but critical sounding comments
by deleting them. --!OP
\_ I am going to guess "not common"
\_ Haha. Are you the poster whose comment I deleted?
Did you experience a flush of anger when you saw I
deleted your pathetic comment?
\_ <stop deleting someone else's shit and we'll stop deleting
your shit>
\_ Deleting a "followup" which consists of "that's a dumb
question" is a service not an abuse.
\_ <right, which is why this is a service>
\_ Little losers: you guys really couldn't tell the difference
between your lame answers and the one above?
\_ I've had that kind of deal offered to me to finish a project at
a company that 1. had no prospect of a liquidity event, and 2. had
a co-development deal with another company that would bring in cash
with each milestone met. A more common version of this happens
when a company gets acquired for $(n+m+o+...), with $(m+o+...)
tied to project milestones. |
| 2005/5/20 [Recreation/Sports, Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs] UID:37784 Activity:high |
5/20 For the person who was asking how to best answer the question,
"What's your weekness?" during the interview. IMHO, the best
way to answer that is to talk about how you'd like to be more
proficient in an area that you are _not_ interviewing for.
For example, if you are interviewing for a backend position,
then talk about how you are not as strong in front end design
but would love to get more exposure to it. Or for non-managedment
engineering positions in general, it is also okay to say you are
not comfortable enough speak in front of hundredes or thousdands
of people but you would like to take some public speech classes
if the company can sponsor it (it is important to quatify the
number of audience; you want to point out you are totally comfortable
doing a technical presentation/review for your peers).
This answer usually leads to discussion about company's education
benefits, which is what you want to find out anyway.
\_ The best answer is "I don't have any weaknesses"
\_ I'd rather someone blew off the question than respond this way
\_ No, that's the worst answer.a
\_ I dunno -- the last thread about this had some pretty messed
answers....
\_ It's not the worst answer if it is true. If you're good at
your job and you have good people skills to boot plus tons
of experience in the relevant positions then why would you
have any weaknesses? I mean, seriously, what the hell are you
supposed to say? I don't have a good backhand in tennis?
I don't play golf? I mean, seriously, wtf ARE you supposed to
say if you have 10+ years of experience in the field, worked
on various projects as follower or leader, have had a pretty
good track record on those projects, given lectures on the
field, published papers, etc. etc.. If you are the best
candidate for the job, why SHOULD you have any weaknesses?
\_ If you think you're perfect, that's a weekness.
\_ Perhaps if you think you are NOT perfect for the job,
now that's a weakness. If you don't think you're perfect
for the job, then why are you applying? Also, who said
anything about thinking that you yourself are perfect?
Not having a weakness != perfection.
\_ Okay, I'll emend that. If you don't think you have
weaknesses, you're lying to yourself and others.
\_ So in other words, you don't believe that people
can be good at what they do. That's an interesting
attitude.
\_ No. I believe that people who are never
introspective are dangerous. I believe that
people who don't find they have things to
better in themselves are stunted and boring.
\_ Being introspective is one thing, being
weak at something is another. Don't mix
the two. You're confusing self assessment
with being weak. Self assessment leads to
improvement, even in things you are strong
at. It's akin to saying that Tiger Woods
has a "weak" short game. His weak short
game still blows 99% of the population
out of the water. He can improve on it,
(heck, he can improve on all aspects of
his game), but I wouldn't call it a
weakness, especially if you're applying
for a job. Seriously, this is one of those
dumb corporate interview questions that
should be banned. It's a dumb question and
leads to no real answers.
\_ Sounds like you're reading too much into
the question. This is exactly what they're
asking about. Things you'd like to be
better at. Maybe it's bad terminology,
but you're being really obtuse.
\_ If you asked Tiger Woods his biggest
weakness and he said "My short game"
it would make plenty of sense. How his
short game compares to mine is not the
question.
\_ my biggest weakness is not being able to find more time to <stick
in something irrelevant to work>. For example, I'm unable to find
more time to read fine American literatures, take French/cooking,
class, and do things that'll make me a better rounded person.
Heck they don't give a shit how well-rounded you are, so why not.
\_ The purpose of this question is to bait you into revealing a real
show stopper flaw, or see if you dodge the question or throw up a smoke
screen answer. As long as you answer it honestly and don't throw out
a juicy flaw like stealing other people's lunchs from the company
refrigerator, you are probably fine. -ax
\_isn't hacking code and eating Doritos making you more well-rounded
\_ Only in the chiapet sense. |
| 2005/5/16-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37709 Activity:high |
5/16 When an interviewer asks about your weakness, what do you usually
say?
\_ "i'm outta of a job and i have to come to you to get one"
\_ "i'm too weak to answere questions about myself"
\_ I cry when I masturbate.
\_ Well, I could always use more upper body strength to impress
the girls.
\_ "I've been told that I work too hard, but I've never considered
it a weakness."
\_ Do not try this. Any non-moron interviewer would pick up on
this sort of thing. I guess since he asked this question, we
may deduce he IS a moron though. But anyway I divebombed an
interview when some high-end VP asked this and relentlessly
discarded my non-incriminating answers. The "correct" answer
is really to have a pre-memorized set "things you're doing
to improve yourself", under the assumption that anything
where you're not your best is a weakness. Yeah it's stupid.
I guess you could turn the "work too hard" thing into a real
weakness if you say like you sometimes get fixed on a problem
and if you don't get enough sleep you aren't as bright as
you can be blah blah.
\_ I agree that you should NOT give a canned response, especially
the one above. IT'S TOO FUCKING OLD. It's like walking into
a single's bar and asking "What's your sign?". Be thoughtful.
\_ "That's a stupid question. I'll go somewhere else where the
interviewers aren't morons."
\_ Translation: "My weakness is I kneejerk sometimes at the risk
of pissing off other people."
\_ No, I'd just rather not work for a company who wastes my time
like that.
\_ You might want to consider the fact that there's more to
being a true professional than your (very high) opinion of
yourself.
\_ Alternate Translation: "I'm a very, very poor candidate."
\_ I just answered honestly. Just list some real weakness you
have.
\_ Yeah, I tried that once. Apparently, they weren't interested
in people who don't like to be micromanaged.
\_ Sounds like you came out on top of that one.
\_ I get distracted too easily by eye candies.
\- Just say "I wish I could be more organized."
\_ I'm a lazy fuck.
\_ I tell them that sometimes I am too optimistic about how
much work I can get done and that therefore I take on too
many tasks and that sometimes this causes frustration in
other people who are waiting around for me to get things
done. It is a real weakness of mine (and just about every
other engineer and sysadmin I have ever worked with) and
just indicates a normal kind of failing that you can cop to.
I don't tell them that I drink too much and call in work
sick all the time on Monday because of it or anything like
that.
\_ This is a smart man. (or woman)
\_ Yeah, good call. During my interview for my current job,
I was asked this and answered a couple of things off the
top of my head -- one was "I have a hard time saying no
(to client requests, management requests)" -- it's a
genuine problem, and one that I work on. This led into
a brief discussion of dealing with those sorts of
dynamics, and probably did give them a better idea of
how I think & work. Which is the point.
\_ Well I'd still laugh at you both. It's still an obvious
cop-out basically, just a clever variation of "I work
too much/am too eager to work". It shows you're good
at lawyerly bullshitting. Good job.
\_ This is a foolish man. (or woman)
\_ No, I honestly don't think it is 100% bullshit. Super
awesome programmers accurately predict how much they
can get done in a certain amount of time and when they
screw up, they bust their ass to get back on track.
I am not that conscientious. Yes, it is BS, in the sense
I am not that hard working. Yes, it is BS, in the sense
that I believe I have worse failings as a human being,
but none that I think appropriate for a job interview.
If I was really pressed, I could come up with some others
like "sometimes I can be too terse for people" but I
rationalize that as me just not liking to be interrupted
when I am deep in thought.
\_ My last boss has a restraining order on me, but I learned
from that experience.
\_ That rocks.
\_ I have a hard time with the line between sexual harrassment and
harmless flirtatiousness, but I've been taking sensitivity classes
and higher doses of medication, so it's less blurry to me now.
\_ I ask this question. Not looking for an answer but how they
react. That tells me a lot more about a person, esp. for a
high-profile position.
\_ Just out of curiosity, what does it tell you about a person
when they walk out of the interview telling you it's a stupid
question, and that you're a moron for asking it?
\_ So what are you hoping to see from them? What kind of
responses to this cliche question impress you?
\_ Two pp's above should watch "The Assassination of Richard Nixon"
\_ Why?
\_ "I can't stop my bosses' wives crawling onto my bed." |
| 2005/5/10-12 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37614 Activity:nil |
5/10 Our group is hiring, please see /csua/pub/jobs/efi for more
information. We are looking for fresh/recent grads with 0-3
years of experience. -chiry
\_ What salary range are we talking about?
\_ I don't know the specific range, since I am also
relatively new here, but I think we are pretty
competitive. Send me your resume and questions if you
are interested, I'll forward it to the hiring manager.
-chiry
\_ You're setting the motd on fiery!
\_ Hahahaha, is that you yuen? ;) -chiry |
| 2005/5/2-6 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:37457 Activity:nil 66%like:36830 |
5/2 Senior Web Applications Engineer posting updated:
/csua/pub/jobs/AvantGo
--dbushong |
| 2005/5/2-6 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37444 Activity:nil |
05/01 Summer intern, recent grad, senior developer positions available
at Zone Labs. For an idea of the type of work see:
http://csua.org/u/bxo
though for intern, recent grad positions (not reflected in above
job listings) C++ and/or Java experience and interest in security
may be suffcient.
--sky |
| 2005/5/1 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37440 Activity:nil |
05/01 Summer intern, recent grad, senior developer positions available
at Zone Labs. email sky for details. --sky |
| 2005/4/21-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Industry/Jobs] UID:37308 Activity:nil |
4/21 3 Job openings at Vidiator in Mountain View
/csua/pub/jobs/Vidiator_3DSoftwareEng
/csua/pub/jobs/Vidiator_MobileServerAppEng
/csua/pub/jobs/Vidiator_ContractUIEngineer
link:tinyurl.com/7px8o
Email me if you have any questions. -dgies
\_ Or just post them here... -dgies
\_ Ha, with my old glasses at a distance, I thought I read
"3 Job openings at Vibrator in Mountain View"
\_ "3 openings with Vibrators in Mountain View" |
| 2005/4/19-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37267 Activity:nil |
4/19 Several job openings for SysAdmins/DBAs/Developers at various levels
Email me for details or just send your resume -ccook
\_Where?
\_I'd rather not post the name here due to uptight HR people. Jobs
are near SFO though if that's what you meant
\_ Use your SysAdmin-foo to make an educated guess. -!ccook
\_ fu
\_ Use your SysAdmin-fu to make an educated guess. -!ccook |
| 2005/4/13-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37163 Activity:low |
4/12 our company decided to hire a manager for my group (programmers) and
move my current boss to another group instead. so tomorrow i'm
supposed to interview someone who could be my future boss. any advice?
\_ Aside from just managing programmers, a good manager will help run
interferance with managment, either to help get more resources
when they're needed, politely tell managment what is/is not possible
and give managment and programmers realistic deadlines. One group at
my work is hemmoraging programmers because upper managment keeps
telling them different things are the #1 priority and the constant
task switching and false urgency is causing burnout. My manager is
good at saying "we need to finish X first, then we can go do Y."
\_ respect, attitude, smarts. You don't want a manager that won't
respect his/her team: eg. one interested in CYA or politics or
self-aggrandizement. You want one who realizes that his/her team
is his/her strength, something to rely on, to respect, treat will,
and even to promote. ie. someone who understands your success is
his/her success. Rather than someone who tries to co-opt your
success. Also, how well you get along with your boss is very
important: people skills, friendliness, personality, etc. And
someone who's intelligent enough (and technical enough) for you
to work with and communicate clearly with. Oh, and the above
poster is also correct in saying you want a manager that will
fight for/protect/defend your team.
\_ Exactly the same thing happened to me a few years ago. I hestitated
to interview the candidate because I knew nothing about management,
but the VP told me to just go and grill him for his technical
skills. He did okay, we ended up hiring him, and he ended up being
my boss. It worked out fine. -- yuen
\_ I'm in about the same boat right now. Yes grill them on tech
stuff IF THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO TECH STUFF. Lots of managers
tech skills aren't that important. Much more important is for
them to be able to manage. Management is a support role, and
in this case they should be supporting their team. Ask the
candidate what he will do to support the team, to sell himself
as a net gain for you and your coworkers. |
| 2005/4/6-8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:37091 Activity:nil |
4/5 Does anyone know of open tech writing positions? I have a friend that
is pretty good, and he was just let go by a failing company. --jwm
\_ Poor guy. You're a victim of the Great Terri Schiavo script war.
\_ You assume it's a script war.
\_ True, very true.
\_ Well, I don't let it bother me.
\_ Good man.
\_ http://www.vmware.com/jobs/openings/it.html#tws
\_ Thank you. --jwm |
| 2005/3/28-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36933 Activity:high |
3/28 how do i become a product engineer/product manager?
what classes? what degree? what should i be reading?
\_ strive to become a solid programmer/engineer, while at the same
time developing your interpersonal skills (something most engineers
lack). if you really want, take a business course or two, but that's
not necessary.
\_ For the second, develop a high tolerance for meetings.
\_ ooh boy, i second this.
\_ Is that worse than "project managers"? They seem to do little
other than sit in all status meetings and make reports to
higher-up management (in other meetings).
\_ Depending on the company, you may have "product managers",
"program managers", or "project managers". These all mean
different things to different people, but generally have
something to do with being a liason between engineering and
sales/marketing. The definitions of any of these titles
vary widely from organization to organization. -gm
\_ Seconded. I should add that a good {product/project/
program} manager is worth his weight in gold (take heat
off developers, know how to BS management, keep all the
project status admin crap done, understand the paper
jungle, be a good politician) while a bad one can be the
worst obstruction EVAR!!!11 (micromanagement, impossible
deadlines, etc.) Also, no, they are not the first to get
the boot if they're good at both their job and networking
(never ever ever underestimate that part.) -John
\_ Hm. I was under the impression that "product" managers
actually have input into the specifications/design.
The project managers at my corp appear to have no input
although their role seems to pick up at the end of the
product cycle... getting the product to market. Lots of
work there sometimes. But as an engineering peon my only
interaction was to fill them in on status items. Seems
like a hellish job to me but maybe it's better at other
places.
\_ No, what you want is a product boss in Sun lingo.
Product bosses can kick ass and take names, and it's
a pretty damn cool job. You also have to be a pretty
senior manager to become the product boss.
\_ For the few jobs that I went through, the project/product/program
managers are not engineers and don't know CS. Yet they did fine.
\_ Why in gods name would you want to become a product mgr?
Those guys are the first one to get the boot when times
get tough. Much better to try and become an eng. mgr.
An MBA helps for this (some schools have a eng mgmt
program), but most of the mgrs I know are former eng.
who just got tired of being a peon.
\_ I have definitely had my share of worthless product managers, but
the one good one I worked with made a world of difference. Actual
knowledge of the engineering and business world is a huge plus.
With my CS background, that's what I'm striving to become when I
go to b-school this fall. |
| 2005/3/28-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36931 Activity:high |
3/28 Why do we say "five-digit ZIP code" and "ten-digit phone numbers", but
we say "six-figure salary" not "six-digit salary"?
\-because a salary is a number not a string of digits.
phone number and zip codes dont have a "cadinality".
Why are manhole covers round? Why do mirrors reverse
left/right but not up/down? --psb
\_ Manhole covers are round because round covers can't fall in.
\- circle not only shape where that is true. also round =
easier to move/roll.
\_ yes, it's easier to roll, but what other shape would it
be true?
\_ Or maybe it's just because salaries are old, but zip codes
and phone numbers are new. People say "three-digit IQ",
even though IQ is a number with a magnitude. --mconst
\- fair point. where do you figures outside of money?
i think it may have more to do with money than
old/new. --psb
\_ In the past, "figure" was certainly not restricted
to money; we still say things like "figure 8".
Nowadays, I can't think of anywhere I'd use it
except set phrases and some money-related stuff.
(Not even all money stuff; I'd say "12-digit GDP",
but that might just be me. It's definitely "double-
digit GDP growth", although that's arguably not
referring directly to money.) --mconst
\- figure 8 is a differnt use it
is referring to the shape of the
digit/symbol. when speaking of
precision/accuracy, i suppose
people should use digits rather
than significant figures.
i suppose figures is also used
fo non-money things like
casualty figures. maybe it is more
somthing open to "accounting"
than narrowly money. check your facts
and figures. --psb
\_ I always thought it was because salary is
something most poeple don't know the exact value
of. You say double digit growth because
you could go get the numbers and they would
be exact values. Salary is something you on
get in approximates because it isn't supposed
to be public knowledge is polite company.
So a 6 figure salary is a rough approximation,
not an standin for an exact value you can give
if pressed.
\_ Hmm. Wouldn't the same thing apply to IQs,
then? When you say someone has a double-
digit IQ, you're not claiming to know their
IQ exactly. --mconst
\_ temperatures are old, but they can be triple-digit
\_ Good point. The terms "double-digit" and "triple-digit"
seem to be used pretty widely in general; any idea how
old they are? I can't find any citations in the OED
before 1959. --mconst
\_ Check for 'treble-digit' as well. Those wacky brits.
--scotsman
\_ For what it's worth, they actually list this as
originally U.S. usage. --mconst
\_ Like "aluminum"? :-) -John
\_ psb: how many figures of pi do you know?
\- i figure pi figures bigger than e. when we think of
pi as a string, we use digits. when we think of it as
a number, it has a value. --psb
\_ I know 17, which is four less than what's in
/usr/include/math.h. --- !psb
\- looks like i know 18 ... in base 10. --psb
\- This is a case where the different usage makes sense.
In some cases I agree there are arbitrary or interchangeable
uses eventhough in the dictionary, there may be some technical
difference. On the flip side, there are work words seen as
exact substitutesm possibly with one preferred and the other
considered odd or archaic or verbose, but in some contexts
the are not interchangable and the normally disfavoroed word
should be prefered. e.g. use vs usage. You may be interested
in http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/BLOG/Intention-v-Motive.txt
\_ Because "digits" apply no value to the item or the number involved
while "figures" implies a relative, comparable standing. The phrase
"six figure salary" can be given a comparative value (high, low,
mid) and can be compared a salary involving a different number of
figures. It also means all of the numbers should be taken as a
whole. The phrase "five-digit ZIP Code" implies no particular
value for a higher or lower number. Each digit gives no implicit
meaning or value to the final number as a whole.
\_ Addendum: Someone noted to me that "digits" is also exclusively
used in cases where the positive integer is < 1000, no matter
if the item in question is comparative. Interesting. |
| 2005/3/24-28 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36848 Activity:nil |
3/24 My group (Yahoo! Small Business - Store) has openings for engineers
with 1+ year experience and also for senior engineers with 6+ years
of experience (BS or higher). Please let me know if you know of any
engineers looking for (change of) jobs. Also, how do I get these
openings posted at the career center? -conlam
\_ What's the salary at Yahoo like for engineer with 5-6 years of
experience?
\_ pay is approx "industry average" -atom |
| 2005/3/23-24 [Industry/Jobs, Computer/SW, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:36830 Activity:nil 66%like:37457 |
3/23 We need a(nother) "Senior Web Applications Engineer" here at AvantGo.
Job descr and contact info in /csua/pub/jobs/AvantGo --dbushong |
| 2005/3/18-21 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36755 Activity:nil 57%like:36020 |
3/18 Job opening in Mountain View for J2ME Mobile applications engineer.
See: /csua/pub/jobs/vidiator |
| 2005/3/8-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36583 Activity:moderate |
3/8 How accurate do people find the figures from http://www.salary.com to be? I'm deciding on a job offer, and was hoping someone can help me evaluate. Thnx. Oh. Job is software engineering, of course. \_ I find them accurate. \_ I don't find them accurate, but it's hard to say. I was being paid $10k less than what http://salary.com said, and when I brought it up to management they said my company does extensive market research to make sure we are paid at Market or better, based on individual skill set, experience, blah, blah. \_ Man, that's a shitty way to find out that you're being screwed by your employer. \_ Did you expect them to apologize for underpaying you? \_ No, I expected them to adjust my pay to a fair amount. \_ Didn't work, did it? Next time ask for something more achievable, like world peace or blow jobs from the receptionist. \_ 10% less than the median or 10% less than the 25th percentile? I have pretty much always been paid around the 75th percentile according to their job descriptions. You have to get the title that goes with your number of years of experience though. I have pretty much always been paid between the 50th and 75th percentile according to their job descriptions. You have to get the title that goes with your number of years of experience though, which isn't always your title at work. \_ In this case it was $10k less than the median, and I used the correct number of years in the calc. \_ Unless you are a substandard performer (and you should know that from performance reviews, etc) you are being underpaid then. If you have asked them for a raise and shown them the comps, then you have no recourse but to start looking for another job. It is probably a good idea to interview every other year or so in any case, to keep yourself fresh \_ That's exactly what my manager told me when I asked four years ago. Then my company went bankrupt, and two months later I got an offer which was 20% over my old salary (I told them my old salary). If I had really been paid at market, I don't think anyone would offer me a 20% increase knowing that I was already jobless for two months. \_ It depends on the company. My old job I was < 25th percentile; my new one (pretty much same job description) I'm 75th. |
| 2005/3/2-3 [Finance/CC, Industry/Jobs] UID:36487 Activity:nil |
3/2 I signed up for a credit card with a retail chain. There is an
arbitration provision in the agreement and I can reject that provision
alone by writing them a rejection. I am not planning to sue them
unless they tries to screw me. Supposedly accepting arbitration makes
me vulnerable, but would they mark me as a bad customer if I reject it?
\_ If I were them I'd just reject your application.
It's not like they're hiring you as a software engineer and
you're disputing the anti-compete clauses.
\_ Well, it was an online application and I already got the card.
\_ Do they really allow you to reject a clause just by writing
them? The usual practice is, if you don't like the terms,
then don't sign up (or renew) - take it or leave it.
Do they have to accept your rejection? |
| 2005/2/15-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36180 Activity:moderate |
2/15 In Good Company movie review-- it's pretty funny, and not
too overly outrageous like Meet the Fockers. It reminded me
of the Dot-Com era when I was in my late 20s and I worked
for this 23 year old manager who was very energetic but
lacked everything that made a manager good. It's a funny,
feel good type of movie. I give it 2 thumbs and 1 toe up.
I'm reserving the other toe because it they should've showed
more Dot-Com shit in it.
\_ has anyone seen the new thai kickboxing movie pushed
by the wu-tang clan?
\_ wouldn't it be funny if Carly got fired when she did because
HP board members saw the movie
\_ Carly is not in her mid 20s like the movie (and like the
dot com days) and the people working under her are
actually around her age. Other stuff are similar though, like
the corporate merger, the firing, the confusion, etc. I hated
the chaos that came during the dot com days, but In Good
Company made it very comical. Kudos to the directors.
\_ Carly ~= Teddy K., not the young d00d. Duh!
\_ Teddy K = almighty god who sold the company for profit.
Carly = stupid biach who got fired.
I failed to see any correlation.
\_ To spoon feed it to you: Perhaps, the HP board saw
Teddy K's ostentatiousness and cult of personality in
Carly.
\_ Carly got fired because she's a fucking idiot.
\_ true, but have you seen the movie?
\_ No, and I should refrain. Carly is probably not an
idiot. CEO of a computer company like HP was not a
good match for her, though. Ironically, she probably
would've made a good CEO for Compaq. |
| 2005/2/9-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36123 Activity:kinda low |
2/9 We're thinking of hiring a part-time intern who will be doing some
part time windows sysadmin work for us - he's looking to get
some resume experience, and we'd like to see how he works out
before hiring him full time. Any tips on what would be a
reasonable/fair hourly wage to pay him?
\_ I'd pay him between $12 and $20/hour as an intern, depending on
how competent he seems to be.
\_ Does he have any experience? A degree? Are you guys a cheap
outfit or lavish with salaries (in general)? How good will it
look on his resume? ILM looks good. http://Pets.com less so.
\_ startup environment, currently fairly cheap. Not really
good or bad resume-wise, just basic experience... Thanks! -op
\_ How much experience does he have? Degree?
\_ degree in different field (B.S. biology), but some
experience as a sysadmin at home and previous job
(more for clients than for servers)
\_ If he went to a good university then you should pay
him the high end of the other guy's suggestion.
Maybe $20/hour. Is it full-time? Benefits?
\_ Only part-time for now, no benefits. Thanks
for the input, we'll probably go with $20. |
| 2005/2/8-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36105 Activity:high |
2/8 I have a salary negotiation for a new job coming up. If the median
for that kind of work is $X/yr, what should I ask for an opening
request? Too high and I'll scare them off, too low and I'm selling
myself short.
\_ Ask for what you are worth and what you would be happy with.
If in doubt, ask for more rather than less. You won't scare
them off if they are a good place to work. They will just say:
"Sorry, but this is our final offer: $xxx". Better to be
overpaid than underpaid.
\_ I think I'm worth $X. Except for envy, I'd probably be happy
with only 0.75X. If I ask for 1.15X, would that be bad?
\_ No.
\_ It would not be bad, but don't be surprised if you don't
get it. Salary negotiation is its own area of expertise
and you should at least read up on it, if you want to get
paid anything near what you are worth.
\_ "A good trade is when you're happy and the other guy's
happy, regardless of what you paid for what." -John
\_ yeah, gay sex is when both sides are happy
\_ Cause after straight sex the woman just lies there
crying and feeling like a dirty filthy whore?
\_ Update: Her: What are you expecting
Me: Market rate
Her: There a range we have budgeted... <beating around the bush>
Me: I think 1.15X sounds reasonable
Her: <silence> ... That's within our range.
\_ did you enjoy watching her beat around her bush?
\_ may I ask what you do and what your experience is? I'm asking
because if you're a code monkey, the salary range is actually
pretty big
\- re: the "envy" comment ... while i wouldn't characterize it as
envy, but more of a fairness/do i look like a bitch factor,
it does offend me when people with much lower productivity
are paid better. the productivity difference in the computer
world can easily be a couple of factors and not 10s of percent.
of course the company can try to make it up in other ways
[nicer office, more flex time/telecommute, interesting project,
not having to do shit work, carry pager etc.] --psb
\_ how much do you get paid for having a lot of experience but
no college degree? Thanks Partha
\_ I know someone who has a GED who makes about 1/4 million
dollars a year as some kind of fancy sysadmin
\_ I agree with this. No one likes to find out that his
incompetent coworker on the verge of being fired all the
time makes more. Yes, this happened to me many times
before I learned to stop being a chump and make a demand.
\- well there is also the emperor has no clothes phenomenon.
i have a colleague that spends a lot of time traveling
to give seminars, has a couple of published books, is on
the editorial boards of mutliple things but is a demon-
strable moron ... to the point where his comments in
meetings have led to embarassed silences, people tell
stories about his cluelessness, share strategies for
dealing with his dumb ideas etc. it seems like sleazyness
[like this guy claims to have taught at uc berkeley ...
now either he did so once or means uc extension] works
as does shmoozing [he spends a lot of time gladhanding,
which is easy to do when you dont have work obligations]
--psb
\_ If you give a figure first, you lose. The game is to
continue to ask for market rate until they break down and
cough up a number - then refuse it until they tell you no.
I am glad you got what you wanted, though. |
| 11/22 |