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2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/26    

2010/3/1-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53733 Activity:nil
3/1     http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/25/which-supplements-re.html
        Supplements that look promising vs. strong evidence that they work.
2010/2/1-18 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:53683 Activity:nil
2/1     "Doc Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599195765600
        \_ Well of course it's unethical, it's not a treatment, no
           income stream.
2010/1/7-19 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53616 Activity:nil
1/7     H1N1 flu shots available at Kaiser for all adults (both in and not in
        high-risk groups) starting 1/5.  Don't trust the web pages for
        individual Kaiser locations.  (I got mine at Fremont yesterday, and
        today the Fremont page is still dated 12/21/09 and still says it's not
        yet available.)  Call 1-800-KP-FLU-11 to confirm.  Hurry before it
        runs out!
        \_ I got mine at Walgreens yesterday. I don't think there is a
           shortage anymore.
           \_ I see.  But it's free at Kaiser. :-)  -- OP
              \_ Seriously, nothing is free.  Where do you think the money
                 is coming from?
                 \_ Okay, I'll rephrase.  "But it's 100% covered by your
                    insurance if you have Kaiser insruance and you get the shot
                    at any Kaiser location."  -- OP
2010/1/7-19 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:53614 Activity:nil
12/6    http://www.att.net/s/editorial.dll?eetype=Article&eeid=7020757&render=y&Table=&ch=ne&
        YEAH BABY: "26. Hormones in oral contraceptives might suppress
         a woman's interest in masculine men and make boyish males more
         attractive to her."
2009/10/29-11/3 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53484 Activity:nil
10/29   "Fury Erupts Over H1N1 Shots for Prisoners"
        http://www.csua.org/u/pex (http://www.sphere.com
        '"If you want to get people angry," he said, "tell them someone in
        prison for a very violent felony is going to get it (the vaccine)
        before their grandmother in a nursing home."'
2009/10/13-11/3 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53454 Activity:nil
10/12   Too much or too little vaccine?
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703790404574469182618819504.html
2009/9/28-10/8 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Eyes] UID:53407 Activity:nil
9/28    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbch
        Carl Sagan autotune
        \_ "The URL contained a malformed video ID."
2009/9/15-24 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53368 Activity:nil
9/15    Taking shower is REALLY bad for you:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8254206.stm
        \_ "Further work will need to look at whether finding these organisms
           is associated with any increased risk of infection."
        \_ Not as bad as taking golden shower.
        \_ Solution: let the shower go for a minute before getting in. I think
           a lot of people do that already.
        \- You may also be interested in "Why swimming (in an indoor pool)
           is bad for you.
2009/8/20-9/1 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53296 Activity:low
8/20    I can get a screaming deal ($500) to go to Tokyo in February and I
        have never been so I am interested. However, is it really still
        too cold and windy? Will I be better off paying a few hundred
        dollars more and going in April?
        \_ yes. April is better.  Fly first class JAL too.
           \_ Uh, why?
              \_ You buy rots of top tieah packagahs, make profit, ha ha haha!
        \_ Personally, I don't think Tokyo (Toukyou) ever gets that cold,
           but I'm used to real 4 seasons.  Now, Hokkaidou is a whole
           different story.  If that $500 includes lodging, that sounds
           pretty darn good.
        \_ February is still cold and windy.  But April is warming up and
           drizzling, which makes your body sticky.  To me, a warm rainy
           season is much worse than a cold rainy season (like in the Bay
           Area).  But if you really want to hit Hanami and take cherry blossom
           pictures, you need to go in April.  (I was once in that area from
           September to June.)
        \_ do you like bukake?
           \_ "bukkake"
       \_ Dude I totally want to go with you. I've been to Tokyo before, you
          can get a JR pass and travel all over Japan and stay on the cheap at
          hostels. I've mainly been to Akihabara, I want to visit more though.
          Also, if you're going to travel you might as well spend the shitloads
          on the aforementioned JR pass - riding the shinkansen to kyoto is
          almost a hundred bucks anyways - and you do not want to miss that part
          of japan. Also, February > April - better it be cold than warm and
          humid - it gets REALLY fucking uncomfortable. --toulouse
2009/8/11-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:53263 Activity:nil
8/10    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=8250776&page=1
        Black Death, back in .cn
        \_ http://csua.org/u/osf another perspective
        \- hardly a surprise.
        \_ that photo is pretty funny
2009/5/12-20 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52989 Activity:nil
5/12  "Parasitic flies turn fire ants into zombies"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090512/sc_mcclatchy/3231765
        Mad-ant disease!
        \_ Now that is cool. And by cool I mean totally rad. Wicked. Almost
           as sweet as a ninja.
        \_ It's not like the zombie ants attack other fire ants.
           That isn't nearly as cool.  This is no zombie apocalypse for
           fire ants unfortunately.
           \_ You mean the zombie ants don't go crazy and kill everything?
              Because that would be awesome.
                \_ Nope.  No zombie ant apocalypse.  Bummer.
2009/5/8-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52974 Activity:nil
5/7     "More cell phone users dropping landlines"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_go_ot/us_cell_phones_only
        "People who live in homes that have only wireless service tend to be
        disproportionately low-income, ..."
        1. Don't cancel your land line.  That low-tech thing is a status
           symbol!
        \_ too late. I just don't see any reason, considering that I don't
           have a stable job that I can keep for more than 3 years at a time.
        2. Why on earth does the Ccenter of DISEASE Control care enough about
        2. Why on earth does the Center of DISEASE Control care enough about
           this to spend money to conduct a survey?
        \_ The CDC does a lot of phone surveys, like the National Immunization
           Survey (which is where we get our estimates of immunization rates).
           Phone surveys try to avoid calling cell phones, because it's
           expensive -- you're not allowed to use automated dialers, and you
           often have to pay the respondents to get them to spend their minutes
           on your survey.  To get meaningful results from a landline-only or
           landline-mostly survey, you need to know the size (and ideally the
           demographics) of the cell-only population.
           \_ I thought the FCC would have such data.
        \_ 2: Don't you remember than everyone on humanity's home planet was
           wiped out by a disease spread by dirty phones?  (Hitchiker's Guide)
           \_ That was Golgafrincham
              \_ ...which was humanity's home planet.
2009/5/6-7 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52957 Activity:nil
5/6     Wow!  none of the seven news headlines on http://www.yahoo.com today mentions
        the H1N1 flu.  I gues it's finally dying down.
        \_ No, not really, the press is just getting bored with it.
2009/5/5-6 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52949 Activity:nil
5/5     Influenza Antiviral Drug Search on grid computing:
        http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/projects_showcase/flu1/viewFlu1Main.do
2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/26    

2009/3/26-4/2 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52759 Activity:kinda low
3/26    world's luckiest man:
        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/how-i-survived-hiroshima-ndash-and-then-nagasaki-1654294.html
        \_ If you can see the white light, wouldn't you get exposed to
           enough deadly radiation to die?
           \_ Dying from cancer at age ninety-three, and more than six decades
              after the blasts, isn't exactly early death.
           \_ Of course not.  Feynman even watched the first atomic blast
              without eye protection.  The radiation that kills you is from
              energetic neutrons and alpha particles that are near the blast,
              and gets mixed with soil in a ground or low-altitude detonation.
              \_ Feynman had all kinds of great stories about his radiation
                 experiences while a young man working on the Manhattan Project.
                 He also came down with cancer quite young, like all those guys.
                 \_ Someone told me great minds die young. Mozart, Mendelssohn,
                    etc. We should scatter plot IQ vs. lifespan... I suspect
                    lifespan is highest for IQ 130-150, and beyond 180 there's
                    a fall-off due to odd reasons
                    \_ Mozart and Beethoven get cited as geniuses who died
                       young, but Bach is also wide regarded as a genius, and
                       lived to the ripe old age of 65 before succumbing to
                       either bad post-op or stroke, depending on which source
                       you believe.
        \_ Dying from cancer at age ninety-three, and more than sixty years
           after the bombings, isn't exactly early death.  How can it say it's
           "probably caused by the atomic bombs that almost killed him,"?  Many
           people get cancer much earlier than age 93 even without exposing to
           nuclear blasts.
        \_ Not very lucky to be in two nuclear blasts. I'd call that very
           unlucky.
2009/3/16-21 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52718 Activity:nil 66%like:52717
3/16    Solidarity, comrade!
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/03/14/2009-03-14_us_activist_tristan_anderson_hanging_by_.html
        \_ 1. Your comment has nothing to do with this article.
           2. It's really sad to see people snarking over the probably death
              and certain permanent disabling of another human being.
           3. The comment thread on that article kills kittens and puppies.
2009/2/19-21 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:52606 Activity:nil
2/19    "The most dramatic (and scary) surgery we've seen"
        http://www.csua.org/u/nkn (shine.yahoo.com)
2009/2/18-21 [Health/Disease/General, Recreation/Pets] UID:52596 Activity:nil
2/17    Whoa dude, I didn't know you could keep exotic pets:
        http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/17/chimpanzee.attack/index.html
        \- jeeze [long url preserved]:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/02/18/2009-02-18_charla_nash_lost_eyes_nose_and_jaw_in_ch.html
2009/2/5-10 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52520 Activity:nil
2/5     Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg has pancreatic cancer.
        \_ http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/story?id=6813420&page=1
2009/1/15-22 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52389 Activity:nil
1/15    Now that Steve Jobs and Patrick Swayze are sick with
        pancreatic cancer, is pancreatic cancer going to become
        a cause celebre and get lots of research funding,
        far beyond what is actually justified by the magnitude
        of the actual problem?
        \_ they have Elton John doing benefits, not Jimmy Buffet.
           \_ maybe the Cure for Aids will also cure cancer?
        \_ Unlikely.  BTW, the most common form of cancer in men is prostate
           cancer.
           \_ Yes, but medical research funding level has little
              to do with commonness or severity or likely effect of
              research dollar.  Instead, medical research funding
              is capricious at best.
              \_ I'm aware of that (I work with oncology). -pp
        \_ agree with pp.  wherz mah two-week hard-on pill??
           \_ Idiot!  Don't you know that your dick will die
              if you have a hard on for more than 4 hours?
        \_ First, Jobs isn't dying of pancreatic cancer. after his
           surgery he was cured; these are complications of his surgery.
           Next, the pancreatic cancer swayze has and the one jobs had,
           they are very different beasts. swayze has the one that's
           a killer. jobs is the one that had the very rare one. randy
           pausch had the one swayze has. anyway, the answer to your
           question is no.
2008/12/16-28 [Health/Disease/General] UID:52261 Activity:low
12/16   Has it always been this cold in December?
        \_ feels warm to me
        \_ oh noes, poor cali boy, fwaid of a widdle weather?
           \_ http://edis.oes.ca.gov
              FREEZE WARNING IN EFFECT
              Yes. Yes, I am. And I grew up on the East Coast. --erikred, !op
              \_ Is there a formal term for this? Like "de-acclimation"?
                 \_ It's called "getting soft".
                    \_ I prefer "wising up." --erikred
        \_ global cooling
        \_ It's the Gore effect
           \_ The plANet has a fevah!
              \_ Have some more cowbell.
        \_ My understanding is that this is a cold snap associated with this
           storm that has blown down from the north.
           \_ My understanding is that this is all because someone is trying
              to throw some jewelry into a pit, and if it gets too cold the
              people have to walk closer to some tower.
              \_ His arm has grown long.
           \_ The weather is as cold as Sarah Palin's heart.
        \_ It was even colder in the few days after Christmas in either 1989
           or 1990 (I forgot which one).
2008/12/8-12 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:52208 Activity:nil
12/8    Great news--an actual effective malaria vaccine.
        http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-malaria9-2008dec09,0,4472582.story
        50% reduction in cases in the immunized population.
        This is Nobel prize stuff.
        \_ Wow, that's incredible!
2008/11/18-23 [Health/Skin, Health/Men, Health/Disease/General] UID:52032 Activity:nil
11/18   what the heck has Pierce Brosnan been feeding his wife?
        http://tinyurl.com/58cqtr
        \_ lulz
2008/11/12-26 [Health/Disease/General] UID:51923 Activity:nil
11/12   this is kinda interesting:
         http://tinyurl.com/5wq8cw
        google and flu trends. --psb
        \_ Anybody know why the flu spikes way up in December?  How does it
           look in the southern hemisphere?  It's interesting that it spikes
           up then even in hot and dry places.  I wonder if holiday travel
           and shopping spreads it more.
2008/9/16-19 [Health/Disease/General] UID:51185 Activity:nil
9/16    You probably should try and limit your exposure to this stuff.
        I threw out my polycarbonate water bottle:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080916/sc_nm/chemical_heart_dc_1
        \_ HOLY SHIT I've been drinking from the bottle since I was
           a baby. Plastic today is like lead in the old days. I am FUCKED.
           \_ The important thing is don't put hot things in plastic
              and don't leave things in plastic bottles for a long time,
              especially if stored someplace that gets really warm.
              \_ And don't heat oily stuff in plastic containers, e.g. whole
                 milk.
              \_ And don't heat oily stuff in plastic containers.
                 \_ I never microwave food in plastic ever. I took too much
                    O-Chem to think that this is a good idea.
        \_ Hello, all that they say is that BPA is correlated to heart
           disease, etc.  It's a bit too soon to panic.  I can easily see
           that obese people eat lots of shit out of bottles and plastic
           and that's why they have high BPA, but the eating habit
           independently causes both high BPA and heart disease, not high
           BPA causing heart disease.  This may be a tempest in a teapot.
           \_ Any reasonable study will take that into account.
           \_ I am not going to panic, but I am going to stop exposing myself
              to it. Why woudn't I?
           \_ Pyrex storage: 15 bucks.  Advantages: last forever, easy to
              clean (even after you let stuff sit in them for months),
              don't pick up smells, you can cook with them, and you
              don't need to worry about plastic killing you.  Disadvantages:
              about 2x as expensive as decent tupperware, break if you
              throw them at people, heavier.  Seems like a pretty simple
              call to me.  15 bucks is worth it.
2008/9/14-23 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:51163 Activity:moderate
9/14    bumped so this guy can see:
                    \_ I hope you are not still sitting out the month the
                       market goes up 20%, which it inevitably will, sooner
                       or later. How are you going to decide to jump back in?
                       \_ when the 50DMA increases past the 200DMA by 1% for
                          a major index
                          \_ Define "major index."
                             \_ DJIA.  Come on.  Hello?  I'm not trying to
                                "trick" you here.
                                \_ Okay, then post on the motd when you decide
                                   to get back in. I am kind of curious as to
                                   how your attempt at market timing works out.
                                   \_ all right.  keep in mind that I will
                                      likely put in 50-80% of my savings in,
                                      with 20-50% in CDs/bonds and "my favorite
                                      stocks"
                                      for the last 9-12 months, I have been 80%
                                      in CDs/bonds, and 20% in "my favorite
                                      shorts" (with appropriate stops)
                                      \_ There is a *huge* difference between
                                         being 20% cash and being 50% cash.
        \_ You're an idiot. I bet you predicted 10 of the last 3 recessions.
           I'm still in equities and I will be in equities 30 years from
           now. Have fun trading in and out. There's even a chance you
           will beat my return, but don't attribute it to skill.
           \_ bring up any major index in http://finance.yahoo.com.  use the
              Interactive Chart.  Draw the 50-day SMA and 200-day SMA lines.
              go in at when the 50 crosses the 200 at +1%.  go out when the
              go in when the 50 crosses the 200 at +1%.  go out when the
              50 crosses the 200 at -1%.  now tell me who's the idiot.
              well, just emotional, but that's a normal reaction.
              well, just emotional, but that's a normal reaction.  people tell
              their relatives this shit and they tell them to go jump in a
              lake.  like i posted originally, it's your money, so do with it
              lake.  like i posted earlier, it's your money, so do with it
              what you will.
              \_ technical factors like those are not predictive.
                 \_ have you done the exercise yet?  please do so, and don't
                    respond right away.  wait a week.  run this on more
                    indices.  don't think about this in terms of who wins the
                    argument.  if you still don't wanna do it--that's fine,
                    but now you know what people like me are doing.
                    \_ Run what exercise?  Look at the past and expect it to
                       predict the future?  Here's a hint: The more people
                       try to chase the past behavior of the market, the
                       less it will behave like it used to.  This is exactly
                       the lesson of the hedge funds.  -tom
                       \_ "bring up any major index ...".  Do it.
                          think about it.  wait a week.  ask your respected
                          peers.  ask them to do it too.
                          the lesson on the hedge funds is that if you lever
                          up 30:1 it can bite you in the ass, especially if
                          you chase yield.
                          btw, I don't disagree with you on your point about
                          "the more people try to chase past behavior the less
                          it behaves like it used to".  in fact, this thought
                          is foremost of my concerns.
                          it behaves like it used to".
                          \_ The hedge funds wound up leveraging up because the
                             return on their strategy fell from .5% to less
                             than .2% in just a few years.  Individuals trying
                             to identify technical criteria for investing
                             are basically like the guy who has a system to
                             win in Vegas.  -tom
                             \_ 80% of technical analysis is crap.  have you
                                performed the exercise yet?  anyways, it's
                                your money.  ^Vegas^poker.
                                performed the exercise yet?  please do
                                consider this for a week.  you can check out
                                performance every 6 months.  it seems like
                                we're not going to settle this now, anyway.
                                \_ This would have nicely dodged the last two
                                   downturns, but look at 1987-1992 for a
                                   period where this strategy leaves you
                                   trailing a buy and hold investor by quite
                                   a bit.
        \_ for more detail on what tom is talking about, look up David Swensen
           or John Bogle.
           \_ works very well in a bull market, and much, much better than
              "letting J6P have at it with the market" -op
        \_ When will be the peak tomorrow?
           \_ Today was +3.86% in DJIA.  Expect up to +4%, then look for
              resistance on upward movement.  Largest volume occurs in the last
              [see thread]
              \_ DJIA is now +3.34% and shows upward resistance.
                 for example, today I would move ~16% of my final desired
                 for example, now I would move ~16% of my final desired
                 safety portion of my portfolio out of stocks.
                 Certainly there is a chance it can go higher, but if it rises
                 to +4.0% I would drop off another ~16%; or if I were rally
                 to +4.0% I would move another ~16%; or if I were really
                 sophisticated I would set some EOD limit orders on this +4.0%
                 and sell earlier on some new 1-day top with upward
                 and sell earlier on some new 1-day local maximum with upward
                 resistance.  as always, please consult a professional
                 financial advisor. -op
                 \_ summary:  you should already have been out 33% as of the
                    drop past +4.0%. -op
2008/8/27-29 [Health/Disease/General] UID:50982 Activity:nil
8/27    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080826/hl_nm/cancer_skin_dc (SFW)
        His boobs are hot!
        \_ That picture is pretty random.
2008/7/24-28 [Health/Disease/General] UID:50678 Activity:moderate
7/24    Apparently, the founder of Conservapedia failed basic statistics
        http://conservapedia.com/Talk:Mystery:Young_Hollywood_Breast_Cancer_Victims
        He's also an epic douchebag
        http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Lenski_affair
        \_ Damn you, I wasted 30 minutes this morning reading this
           and laughing like a hyena.  Good stuff.
        \_ One population had a random mutation at some point. He is able
           to duplicate the evolutionary process by growing the population from
           the frozen population he has. No other population mutates in
           this way. So the claim is that a random mutation occured at
           generation 20,000? I don't really see this as evolution. It's
           just a mutation. Why is this more significant?
           this way. What I don't understand is why the mutation happens
           again if it's random. Or is the claim that the mutation happens
           much earlier? If that's the case then why not go farther back
           in time to find the moment in actually occurs? Is that what he
           did at 20,000 generation?
           \_ Congrats, you misunderstood the study in the same way that
              Andy "Douchebag" Schlafly did!
              \_ So please educate me as to the significance.
2008/5/19-23 [Health/Disease/General] UID:50010 Activity:nil 97%like:50006
5/19    Tort reform lowers medical costs in Texas?
        http://csua.org/u/lmd (WSJ.com)
        \_ ...for corporations and insurers!
2008/5/19 [Health/Disease/General] UID:50006 Activity:nil 97%like:50010
5/19    Tort reform lowers medical costs in Texas?
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121097874071799863.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries
2008/5/5-8 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:49886 Activity:low
5/5     "Who should MDs let die in a pandemic? Report offers answers"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080505/ap_on_he_me/pandemic_rationing_care
        \_ I vote for football players, then politicians, then lawyers
        \_ Very old people, people with chronic conditions, people who
           have other problems making them likely to die.  Thing is,
           amongst the rest, who gets allowed to die?  Males?
           \_ The obvious answer is the ALPHA MALE. One Alpha breeds
              with all the females.
              \_ You Mormon!
        \_ Welcome to triage.
        \_ In a real pandemic everyone is going to die.  The doctors won't have
           a cure right away, if ever, and no one is going to run around asking
           victims to see their driver's license, prior medical, financial and
           educational history before treatment.  This is just silly stuff.
2008/5/5-8 [Health/Disease/General] UID:49883 Activity:nil
5/5     It's interesting that when I visit http://finance.yahoo.com, the top story
        headline reads "Yahoo Shares Tumble ...".
        \_ "... Perfect Time to Buy!"
        \_ I personally think it's a diabolical plan by Microsoft to step
           in and buy Yahoo in a hostile takeover, after their stock
           loses billions and billions.
2008/5/1-8 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:49866 Activity:high
5/1     This quote brought up from below, context was systems programming:
        "but I am horrified by what recent CS grads do not know."
        I've heard this a lot, and to me it just sounds standard old man
        ranting.  How much can you expect a fresh CS grad to know? I did more
        systems stuff than average in college, but I was still ridicoulusly
        green compared to me 4 years later.  What do you think the average
        CS grad should know?
        \_ When I graduated in the 90s the old timers looked me down because
           I didn't know the MIPS instruction level and optimizations.
           When I got older I looked down on the new Cal graduates I
           hired, who were crazy about OO and thought OO will solve
           all the tough problems out there. However, they turned out
           alright and I embraced a subset of C++/OO. A decade later we could
           only hire Javaheads during the dot coms and they're probably the
           worst of the bunch. However, 1-2 of the kids who stuck around
           actually turned out alright. Nowadays, I can't hire anyone who
           isn't crazy about fucking Design Patterns that they think is the
           greatest thing in the world. I hope 1-2 of them will turn out
           alright. I guess I'm just getting old and picky.
        \_ I said this and I wasn't implying "recent grad" as in "fresh
           out" but in terms of "people with less than 15 years of
           experience". I do not feel that people with 25-30 years of
           experience". I do not feel that people with 15 years of
           experience will be adequately replaced by today's grads with
           5 years of experience in 10 years.
           5 years of experience in 10 years. This is true of some other
           disciplines as well like aerospace engineering where there is
           a tremendous brain drain waiting in the wings.
           \_ Wow, that is completely different than my experience at my
              workplace. Around here the young guys are great, very
              knowledgeable and proficient.  The old guys tend to be
              useless.  Possibly because all the good old guys left for
              places that pay more.
              \_ I think you are just witnessing that as people get older
                 they give less of a shit and have less energy. That's
                 true where I work. They are extremely wise and knowledgeable,
                 but they don't work hard anymore because they don't care.
                 That's not to say they are useless, even though people
                 like to call them dead wood. It's just that the young
                 guys think they know everything already and don't appreciate
                 the experience the old guys have.
                 \_ Do not confuse working hard with working effectively.
                    Working smart is much more important.  If you can work
                    hard -and- smart then more power to you but usually smart
                    is more than most jobs require to shine.
                    \_ Where I work most people work hard and smart both,
                       but as they age they don't tend to work hard
                       anymore. Not just physical and health limitations but
                       also the pressures of daily life increase and
                       people tend to rest on their laurels. I think it's
                       only natural when people start to approach (or in
                       some cases pass) retirement age. I think that people who
                       made significant contributions in the past should have
                       that reward, but I also think they are underutilized by
                       the young go-getter types.
                       \_ Retirement age... by definition they should be
                          retired, not working hard, yes?  How old are these
                          old people at your work?  I think what you're seeing
                          is not laziness or laurel resting but a deeper
                          understanding of their work environment where they
                          have learned that hard work is not necessary and not
                          rewarded or probably even noticed.  That makes them
                          smart, no?  Frankly, who wants to work 60+ hour weeks
                          for their entire life?  What's the point?
                          \_ Smart, yes. The best workers, maybe not.
                             \_ I'd rather have a smart guy who works 40 hours
                                than dans.
                                \_ I'd rather have a smart guy that works
                                   60 hours, which is what I was getting
                                   at by saying that many people work hard
                                   and smart both. Learning that hard work
                                   is not rewarded is definitely smart,
                                   but not the best for producing work.
                                   However, I do think experience counts
                                   for something because every once in a
                                   while there is that "new" problem that the
                                   old guys (let's say 65-70 years old)
                                   have seen before. The problem is then
                                   getting those older guys to work on
                                   your schedule instead of their own
                                   because they just don't have the
                                   urgency anymore.
                             \_ Depends on your definition of best.  I'd
                                rather have the lazy smart guy who writes
                                perfect code during his 9-5 than 10x guys who
                                crank out tons of broken shit in their 80
                                hours/week.  Which sounds "more best" to you?
                                Time invested != value.  Imagine if your car
                                safety belt, your dad's heart monitor, or even
                                your favorite video game was produced by piles
                                of 80hour/week clowns cranking out crap....
        \_ I did not say this, but I would want a recent CS grad to know
           approximately how fast it takes to access L1/L2 cache and cache
           latency times, memory (RAM) access times and bus width and enough
           about how hard disks work to understand why seek time effects disk
           latency. Some kind of clue about what kind of performance to expect
           from hard disks and network access, as well. Is this too much to
           ask? Does this even get taught at Cal?
           \_ L1/L2 cache effects, bus, etc is taught in CS152 and not
              CS150, hence it's optional. Today, 90% of the job is to
              write frontend using one of the BS scripting or worse,
              J2EE/EJB shit. All the interesting problems are solved
              (container, persistence, storage, horizontal scale).
              L1/L2 becomes irrelevant.
           \_ I'd say L1/L2 stuff is a bit unreasonable.  Also what is a
              recent grad doing where that stuff matters?  Seriously, if
              are giving a green engineer that kind of responsibility without
              the few days training it would take to explain you are just
              asking to fail.  Now if a  recent grad is not able to
              understand that disk and network access is going to be slow
              then yes you have a problem.  But really?  You expect some
              wet behind the ears 22 year old to write code that pays
              attention to on chip cache latencies?
           \_ Most of that I picked up here and there. 61c and 162 covered
              basics of cache latency and disk stuff respectively. -op
           \_ When I was coding, I was happy if the new grads knew some
              sql, c, perl, could write make files and shell scripts and
              knew their way around the common revision control systems.
              Mostly what I saw was that they were scared to death of c,
              make and anything that didn't come with a gui.
        \_ Even grads that go into systems need to know what NP completeness
           is.  Many don't. -- ilyas
           \_ I think if you ask them to do travelling salesman they will
              know it is NP complete.  The problem is a lot of engineers have
              a hard time seeing that what they want to do is pretty trivally
              reduced to TS/Knapsack/largest Clique finding/etc. and therefore
              NP complete.  (And from my experiance this is not the sort of
              knowledge people gain after working in the real world, if
              anything it's the sort of thing people forget.)
        \_ There has been a huge demographic change in EECS programs in the
           past 20 years.  When I first arrived at Cal, the people in the CSUA
           were, on average, seriously nerdly.  They were people who really
           dug technology and stayed up all night hacking for fun and had
           poor social skills and hygeine.  That's not what you see these
           days; these days kids are being pushed into EECS by their
           parents in the same way they are pushed into pre-med and pre-law
           programs.  This has resulted in a more mainstream population
           with less real technological aptitude and interest.  This
           also happens with people who graduate with pre-med and pre-law
           degrees; however, med schools and law schools have very aggressive
           sceening and selection programs, while the IT industry does not.
             -tom
        \_ There has been a huge demographic change in EECS programs
           in the past 20 years.  When I first arrived at Cal, the
           people in the CSUA were, on average, seriously nerdly.
           They were people who really dug technology and stayed up
           all night hacking for fun and had poor social skills and
           hygeine.  That's not what you see these days; these days
           kids are being pushed into EECS by their parents in the
           same way they are pushed into pre-med and pre-law programs.
           This has resulted in a more mainstream population with less
           real technological aptitude and interest.  This also
           happens in pre-med and pre-law programs; however, med
           schools and law schools have very aggressive sceening and
           selection programs, while the IT industry does not.  -tom
           \_ CSUA != EECS program.  How many classes have you taken since
              you graduated college and came to work at Cal?
           \_ While I agree, I don't really think more aggressive screening
              would solve any problems.  There just aren't enough really
              nerdy guys around to fill demand.
              \_ Lack of supply does not stop the screening in medicine.
                  -- ilyas
                 \_ I'm not sure there's a lack of supply of people wanting to
                    be doctors. There is a lack of supply of dedicated geeks,
                    though, even though salaries are high. Lots of people
                    just aren't interested or proficient in what I consider to
                    be skills much more specialized than medicine which is
                    lots of rote memorization. Aggressive screening will
                    raise salaries because all of the fakers will be out
                    of work, but I'm not sure it will help demand.
                    \_ It was unclear from your paragraph what job you think
                       requires rote memorization, but the majority of skilled
                       work in both medicine and high tech requires much more
                       than that. -- ilyas
                       \_ Medicine is rote memorization much of the time.
                          Maybe not radiology or surgery, but a lot of it is.
                          Doctors seem to be terrible problem-solvers in
                          general even though making diagnoses is a big
                          part of their job.
                          \_ yeah, because solving problems in a human body
                             is just as easy as solving them in software
                             engineering.  "Anything I don't understand
                             must be easy."
                             \_ I didn't say it was easy. I said it was
                                based on memorization. I'm sorry, but
                                figuring out why someone is coughing is
                                not really difficult in spite of what
                                shows like House make you think. I've
                                talked to some good doctors who *do* have
                                great problem-solving skills and they
                                would be the first to tell you that the
                                majority of their colleagues don't have
                                that ability. It's not really what medical
                                school is about for the most part. I do
                                think many more CS students could be
                                doctors than vice-versa.
                                \_ you're an idiot.
                                \_ You are an idiot.  Moreover you don't
                                   understand diagnostic medicine. -- ilyas
                                   \_ And you do, of course. I have been
                                      the victim of 'diagnostic medicine'
                                      and I did a better job of problem-solving
                                      than my doctors did. It got to the
                                      point where I just demanded the tests
                                      I wanted from various specialists
                                      because GPs were totally worthless.
                                      The specialists were knowledgeable
                                      in their own fields, of course, but
                                      most of them weren't too useful
                                      either when results came back
                                      negative. Finally, I found a great
                                      doctor based on some recommendations
                                      and *he* helped me by: 1) listening
                                      to me (most doctors don't do this
                                      and it's a big part of problem-solving),
                                      2) ordering expensive tests (doctors
                                      don't like to do this unless they
                                      have strong suspicions because then
                                      they have to battle insurance) and
                                      3) being smart enough to look at the
                                      reports written by other doctors. My
                                      doctor and I worked as a team to
                                      solve my health problem, but it took
                                      me trips to about a dozen (or more)
                                      doctors before I found one worth shit.
                                      So many doctors are just good at
                                      "take two aspirin and call me in the
                                      morning" but when presented with a
                                      real challenge they are worthless.
                                      My neighbor is a neurologist who is
                                      a very good doctor and he told me
                                      about a case where he suspected a man
                                      had a brain tumor but the teams of
                                      doctors treating him couldn't figure it
                                      out. They actually had him
                                      institutionalized. Only years later
                                      did someone discover he had a brain
                                      tumor. It was removed and the man is
                                      totally normal now. This is what
                                      these people you have such high
                                      regard for do. I am not saying all
                                      doctors are bad. Some are excellent.
                                      However, problem-solving is not high
                                      on the list of things the average
                                      doctor is good at. Lots of doctors
                                      like to write prescriptions until
                                      they find one that works. That's not
                                      good medicine. It can even be dangerous.
                                      \_ I am not sure what these anecdotes
                                         have to do with your original
                                         assertion, which is that medicine is
                                         rote memorization much of the time.
                                         If anything, these support my point,
                                         namely that diagnosis is a complex,
                                         difficult activity that requires
                                         skills an average doctor may
                                         not have.  If you want to rant about
                                         'the average skill level' in both
                                         medicine and high tech, I think you
                                         will find many people, including me,
                                         more sympathetic. -- ilyas
                                         \_ I think you misunderstand:
                                            1. Medicine should be much
                                               more than rote memorization
                                            2. Yet, medical school and the
                                               medical professional rely
                                               medical profession rely
                                               heavily on rote memorization.
                                               In my opinion many doctors
                                               do so because their own
                                               problem-solving skills are
                                               lacking.
                                            \_ Yeah, I am going to go with
                                               my original assessment of
                                               'you are an idiot.'  -- ilyas
                                               \_ I am guessing someone in
                                                  your family must be in
                                                  the medical profession.
                                                  Who is it?
                    \_ There seems to be plenty of supply (from India+China if
                       nothing else). As for being a real nerd or not, that
                       is less of an issue if there is screening. The non-nerds
                       just need a more directed education to teach them what
                       they need to know, instead of relying on ubernerds to
                       basically teach themselves.
2008/4/25-30 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:49834 Activity:nil
4/25    what is downside of vasectomy?
        \_ Why would you want a vasectomy? - motd not getting laid guy
           \_ why are you still not getting laid? lots of promiscuous
              women in the San Diego area:
              http://www.courttv.com/trials/sommer/113007_ctv.html
           \_ already have 6 kids.                      -mormon
           \_ If you're done having kids, it's a much less invasive procedure
              than a woman getting her tubes tied.
        \_ A few weeks of discomfort.  Not generally reversible.
           New studies suggest it may increase chances of senility in old age.
           \_ what if you take synthetic testosterones?
              \_ A vasectomy doesn't terminate testosterone production. It just
                 keeps the sperm cells from mixing into the seminal fluid (the
                 vas deferens, the tube that delivers the sperm cells is
                 severed, a section removed and the ends sealed), and the cells
                 are reabsorbed into the body. The going hypothesis about
                 senility is that sperm cells that can't exit the body are
                 attacked by the immune system and that the body starts
                 attacking cells in the brain as well.
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasectomy#Vasectomy-Dementia_Link
                 \_ how do you explain that everytime I jackoff I feel
                    so brain dead and do worse on exams?
                 \_ oh shit! I better start ejaculating more
2008/4/11-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:49723 Activity:nil 54%like:49740
4/11    Dear lord, I want to sodomize lolita, unless she has anal cancer   -aspolito
        \_ Don't we all?
           \_ uh, no.                                   -gay man
2008/3/11-13 [Health/Disease/General] UID:49423 Activity:nil
3/11    Jail baits are not just jail baits.  They are bombs.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_he_me/teen_stds
        \_ But men don't get cervical cancer.
        \_ HPV isn't that big of a deal.  Seriously.  Get over it.
           \_  But....but...SEX!! !!! SPTIZER!!!!!!1!1!1
                \_ The Sptizer thing is kind of funny since Sptizer broke
                   up an expensive call girl ring while AG.
        \_ Lolita, light of my life, fire of my loins. My sin, my soul.
           Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps
           down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. Lo. Lee. Ta.
2008/2/15-18 [Health/Disease/General] UID:49157 Activity:nil
2/15    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23187315
        Looks like you should save $18 on your flu shots next year.
        Gov sponsored vaccination isn't working well, maybe we should just
        let the private enterprise do a better job.
        \_ flu != polio
2008/2/11-14 [Health/Disease/General, Recreation/Food] UID:49117 Activity:high
2/11    If you're on the way to becoming super rich and want to buy your
        very first first primary vacation mansion, where would you buy
        it at?  Let's say ANYWHERE (price not an issue)... Dubai? Monacco?
        Switzerland?
        \_ price not an issue?  ok, THE MOON.
        \_ Paris
           \_ Paris over the Cote d'Azur? Why?
              \- you may wish to read "Paris to the Moon".
        \_ Monte Carlo of Monaco. I'm sure psb likes it too as it appeals
           to people with refined taste.
           \_ "people w/refined taste" - you mean gay people in general.
           \_ psb >> pp
              \- i dunno why i came up, but i put down Cap Ferrat.
                 although if you wanted a serious answer in the $10m
                 range, probably london: speak english, good connectivity,
                 good food, transportation, "diverse" people, good news
                 papers etc. that's more my thing than drinking campari
                 on my balcony over the med and hanging out with the
                 "worthless" people who own +$20m yachts and their friends.
                 \_ Shit weather and shit food.
                    \- london has expensive food, not shit food.
                       considering london's latitude, the weather isnt
                       that bad. do you diss SF because "the pacific ocean
                       is too cold there".
                       \_ yeah, I'm moving to the South Pole because the
                          weather there is pretty good for the latitude.
                          \- i dont think you know what you are talking
                             about. london doesnt really go below freezing.
                             duluth, which is about 5deg *south* of london,
                             is below freezing for half the year.
                             although it does rain frequently, that is true.
                             although it does rain a lot there, that is true.
                       \_ Not the ocean in SF (although true) but the
                          air temperature. I hate it. SF, NYC, London,
                          whatever. It's okay in the summer, of course.
                          \- i really dont understand why people from places
                             like boston whine about SF weather. i mean
                             50deg isnt that bad. i mean i can see the
                             bitching if you are from hawaii or san diego.
                             dont people here own thermals? i guess dressing
                             for the cold is a pain in the ass if you have
                             to be nicely dressed for work, but relatively
                             few people here have that as a major issue.
                     http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/PSB_MISC/PSB_Baltoro-mac.jpg
                                --psb
                    \_ If money is no object, you can have whatever food you
                       want, and weather is irrelevant with indoor pools etc.
                       In any case, some people like a bit of rain.
           \_ I thought they live there mostly because it's a tax shelter.
              Though maybe they like living next to all the other rich people
              also.
              \_ It's more fun playing golf and flying private planes
                 with other people who are able to afford golf/planes,
                 than to hang out with a bunch of drunken football fans.
        \_ Gotta be southern hemisphere, chase the summer.  Sydney perhaps.
           \_ My thoughts, too. Eternal summer. Australia would be great
              and much safer than Africa or South America.
           \_ A place like Hawaii never really gets unpleasant ever (if
              anything summer might get too hot).
              \_ Winter in Hawaii is still winter and it rains all the
                 time and it's humid. I really like Mediterranean climates.
        \- Saint Jean Cap Ferrat
        \_ Bermuda, Hawaii or maybe Tahiti. I think I would pick New Zealand
           over Australia b/c there are fewer people in NZ. But I think both
           might be too cold for me.
        \_ Lake Como seems popular. (Unfortunately it is also apparently
           polluted with sewage.)
2008/1/25-2/2 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:49010 Activity:nil
1/15    Does the AMA prevent doctors from representing companies or
        drugs? If so, why does the Dr. of artificial heart (Robert Jarvis)
        appear on TV ads?
        \_ http://urltea.com/2kxk [freakonomics blog]
           "I was surprised to discover that many of the manuscripts on Vioxx were
            prepared and written by Merck or medical writing companies that Merck
            had commissioned. The company then often paid academics to become authors.."
            Good comments, too. Search for "Posted by SB", among others.
           "I was surprised to discover that many of the manuscripts on Vioxx
           were prepared and written by Merck or medical writing companies that
           Merck had commissioned. The company then often paid academics to
           become authors.." Good comments, too. Search for "Posted by SB",
           among others.  ...This site leads to other good stuff, such as
           http://urltea.com/1k68 [cato-unbound.org] "Note that someone willing
           to pay $1,000 to gain 2.5 days of life should be willing to spend
           about $1,000,000 to gain six years by living rurally, and $2,000,000
           to gain fifteen years via high exercise. These figures seem to me to
           overestimate the observed eagerness to live rurally or to exercise."
           \_ 80 columns imposed
           \_ Do rural dwellers really live an average of six years longer?
              Source please?
2007/12/18-20 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:48828 Activity:moderate
12/17   $45 trillion gap seen in US benefits
        http://www.newsweek.com/id/78426
        \_ And their quotes come from... administration officials, R congs,
           and a blue dog dem from TN... This is the "drown it in a bathtub"
           crowd.  How 'bout some mention of how we got here...
        \_ 75% of this is Medicare. Socializing medicine would fix this
           problem.
           \_ How do you figure?
              \_ Spending growth is out of control in the health care
                 sector primarily because the users of the system don't
                 see the true costs of their actions, and there are a bunch
                 of entrenched interests (primarily insurance companies and
                 drug companies, but also physicians) who are vested in
                 keeping it that way. The rising cost of delivery kills
                 everyone, including medicare. Those places that have a
                 single government payer have been able to ration health
                 care more effectively and keep a lid on cost growth. You
                 might be able to do it with a straight free market system
                 but I don't see that working here. One way or another, we
                 are going to have to reduce health care delivery costs in
                 order to handle the wave of boomers reaching retirement age.
                 \_ You think that having the taxpayers foot the entire
                    bill is going to help the users realize their true
                    healthcare costs? I argue the opposite. Socializing
                    medicine will make costs higher. Look at your own
                    example: Medicare. Eliminate Medicare and I guarantee
                    healthcare costs will go down.
                    \_ Except there is the counterexample of every other
                       country in the world that has nationalized healthcare.
                       They all pay less in overall costs, both in dollars
                       and as a percentage of their GDP.
                       People will gripe about the long wait times but I
                       trust the government to do a better job of rationing
                       than the "free" market, which would just let millions
                       die due to lack of basic care. Eliminating medicare
                       might make costs come down, but how many would die
                       do to lack of treatment? Is that really how you want
                       to ration healthcare: if you can't afford it, die on
                       street?
                       \_ For people who need expensive treatment to
                          stay alive, maybe they should just die if they
                          can't afford it. Everyone dies. Especially for
                          people who are older than say, 60: why should
                          we pay more than X to artificially keep them alive?
                          A lot of problems are caused by lifestyle choices.
                          \_ We are probably not as far apart as you think.
                             I think the cheap and easy preventative medicine
                             should be free and widely available and I think
                             the government should generally only pay for
                             well understood and relatively inexpensive care
                             outside of that. If you are 97 and you get
                             liver cancer, oh well you are going to die,
                             unless you can afford to pay for your own
                             treatment. But a total "free market" system
                             where poor people would have no access to
                             health care at all would be a disaster. Want to
                             to see whooping cough come back? Stop providing
                             free immunizations to poor children and it will.
                             That and a host of other formerly endemic diseases
                             and they will not conveniently only infect the
                             "unworthy of health care" poor.
                             \_ Not all charity should come from government
                                either.
                 \_ Current HSA plans allow patients to choose their healthcare
                    more carefully, keeping the money in a retirement plan if
                    it's not spent, thus injecting some direct competition.
                    Those seem to be working.  I'd definitely prefer that type
                    of plan over socializing it.  Romney's comment about Mass.
                    is that they had 7% uninsured. Out here in CA I suspect
                    it's higher than that.
                    \_ Yes there is a chance that something like an HSA could
                       inject enough consumer desire to reign in healthcare
                       spending. Is there evidence that is seems to be working,
                       as you say? The only way it could make a big enough
                       difference to significantly change things is if it was
                       extremeley widespread though. Would you support making
                       them mandatory?
                   \- you get to keep what you dont use from your HSA?
                      i thought they were all use or lose.
                      \_ http://www.hsainsider.com/Individual/Benefits.aspx
                         The HSA is a relatively new concept, you are thinking
                         of a different plan, called an FSA.
2007/11/30-12/6 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Health/Disease/General] UID:48721 Activity:high
11/30   http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/30/hostin.abortion.pill.cnn
        Totally awesome man. Spike your mistress' drink with abortion pills
        and get jailed for killing unborn child.
        \_ What charges do you think were appropriate?
           \_ Willful endangerment of mother? Drugging without consent?
              Perhaps there's a stringent reading of date-rape drug laws that
              would suffice. -!op
              \_ So you think forcing an abortion on someone is only worth a
                 minor drug charge?  If someone did that to your wife would
                 you be ok with the 6 months probation your list would get
                 someone?
                 \_ Assault and battery? Malicious poisoning? I see what you
                    mean, and I'm trying to get at a suitable charge that
                    matches the egregious nature of the crime against the
                    mother without having to assign citizens' rights to the
                    unborn.
                    \_ Do you think a&b on a woman should yield the same
                       charges/punishment as a&b on a woman that leads to
                       her unborn miscarrying?  Does the pregnancy have no
                       value?
                       \_ I believe the pregnancy has value _to the mother_
                          and should therefore be taken into consideration.
                          I don't think the pregnancy has an innate value
                          apart from to the mother, and the fetus itself has
                          no rights apart from those granted it by the mother
                          (and, in a cold, legal sense, the value it has to
                          the mother).
                          \_ Ok the pregnancy has value to the mother.  I don't
                             see where you're going with that.  Again: when you
                             are responsible for killing a woman's unborn child
                             what should the right punishment be?  And
                             seriously, I'd check with a woman before trying to
                             claim "the pregnancy has no innate value apart
                             from the mother".
                             \_ You misread: I said "the pregnancy has no
                                innate value apart from _to_ the mother."
                                The right punishment depends on whether
                                killing the woman's unborn child is a crime.
                                If she asks you to do so, then no. In this
                                case, yes. As such, the punishment should
                                reflect the loss to the mother.
                                \_ I didn't misread at all.  I quoted exactly
                                   what you said and kept the context.   Now
                                   then, of course killing her unborn child is
                                   a crime, don't be daft.  It wasn't a legal
                                   abortion, it was killed.  The only question
                                   is what is the correct punishment.  So far
                                   the motd has offered a $50 fine, 6 months
                                   probation and banned from practicing
                                   medicine in that state.  whoop-de-doo.  Go
                                   ask your wife/gf what the punishment should
                                   be and get back to me.
                                   \_ 1) You didn't quote me exactly: you
                                      missed the "to." 2) I've already agreed
                                      with you that it's a crime in this case.
                                      \_ All this stuff is a side show.  What
                                         penalty is appropriate?  So far the
                                         motd says $50 and 6 months probation.
                                         \_ Before I do so, I want you to
                                            explicitly state that you won't
                                            turn any punishment proposed into
                                            into a "Well, if for this, why
                                            not the same for abortion?"
                                            nonsense spiel.
                          \_ One thing I find suspicious is that most
                             arguments for abortion vanish with sufficient
                             technology.  This means that either you should
                             believe morality changes with technology or you
                             should believe abortions are wrong. -- ilyas
                             \_ or it means ilyas is an idiot
           \_ How about "practising medicine without a license"?  I heard even
              a good samaritan without a CPR license applying CPR to save
              someone's life can be charged with this.  -- !OP
              \_ Oh yeah right, so that'll get him what?  3 months probation
                 and a $50 fine and he won't be allowed to practive medicine
                 in that state again?  Again, if this was your wife who got
                 her child force aborted, what charges would you think were
                 sufficient and would your wife agree?
                 \_ Practicing medicine without a license is a serious felony,
                    with a one year prison sentence as possible punishment.
                    ObGetAClue
                    \_ Yes and the odds of 1 year for a first offense is about
                       zero.  So now you think 1 year is enough for killing
                       her unborn child?  Is that a good punishment to you?
                       \_ Your claim was that the punishment was a $50 fine.
                          Your claim is BS, as I have demonstrated. I think
                          that is about the right punishment for the crime of
                          "practicing medicine without a license." I don't
                          really know what the penalty is for poisoning someone
                          such that they had an involuntary abortion, but
                          it should probably be a bit higher than that.
              \_ Not sure about that one, but the California Court of Appeal,
                 Second Appellate District, Division 3 did reverse a Good
                 Samaritan case where a GS moved an accident victim and may
                 have caused paralysis:  http://csua.org/u/k4x (About.com)
                 \_ Gee.  Was it the crash victim or the family who sued the
                    GS rescuer?
2007/11/12-16 [Health/Disease/General] UID:48611 Activity:nil
11/12   http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/11/09/not.at.work/index.html
        Don't do this at work
        \_ I don't want to work there.
2007/11/9-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:48589 Activity:nil
11/9    does abortion cause breast cancer?  I read a letter to the editor
        about it in a major paper.
        \_ Sort of. Having children early is a good protection against
           getting breast cancer.
           \_ See it's God's punishment.
           \_ So... do lesbians have a higher incident rate?
              \_ Hard to infer that.  Lesbians' hormonal balance might be
                 different.
2007/10/30-11/2 [Health/Disease/General] UID:48493 Activity:nil
10/30   http://www.csua.org/u/jv2 (Yahoo! News)
        "High blood pressure, bad backs, bum knees and other mundane health
        problems put three and a half times more troops on planes to hospitals
        in Germany or the United States than do snipers and roadside bombs,
        say front-line experts in Iraq."
        \_ It used to be disease would kill most troops on the march....
        \_ Should they take a boat?
        \_ Non-battle casualties have always been larger than battle injuries.
2007/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Health/Disease/General, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:48314 Activity:high 64%like:48322
10/15   It occured to me this morning that treating women as equal to men has,
        so far, proven to be a poor choice for our society evolutionarily.
        This suggests the practice will probably die out evenutally.
        \_ Too soon to tell. I suspect that the socities with faster growth
           rates may be subject to a massive die-off sooner or later.
        \_ What do you mean?  Fewer offspring?  Fewer offspring may be the
           only long-term viable evolutionary strategy due to environmental
           limits.
           \_ That's a salient point, but it requires that all societies agree
              to limit reproduction.  You may get two sets of societies, 'the
              moral slow reproducers' and the 'immoral fast reproducers.' There
              will still be an environmental catastrophe, but the fast
              reproducers will have many more people than the slow reproducers.
              The result is the fast reproducers wipe out the slow reproducers
              in resource wars.  There is historical precedence.
              \_ Oh you mean like in California, the whites are getting
                 wiped out by the exploding Latino population? You RACIST!
              \_ Historical precedent is invalidated by technological
                 advantage.  When the slow reproducers have a massive military
                 technological advantage due to not living at or below bare
                 subsistence, numbers won't matter.
                 \_ This assumes that the slow reproducers live in segregated
                    political states. In reality there are slow vs. fast within
                    each political entity, especially now with multicultural
                    immigrant states. Therefore in the long run we have the
                    same result.
                    Multicultural states are therefore bad for the species,
                    because they lead to global homogenizing of cultures.
                    Diversity decreases in favor of the fastest-growing
                    domininant subcultures, leaving the population as a
                    whole at greater risk.
                    \_ There is about five assumptions you are making here,
                       none of which you have justified, but I will start
                       with the largest. Do you honestly believe that having
                       a multicultural state in say The Netherlands has any
                       effect on culture in Chad?
                       \_ Not so much, but it affects the culture in the
                          Netherlands. Multiculturalism is happening mostly
                          in countries which have slower birth rates
                          than the countries where the immigrants come from.
                          Large amounts of immigrants from [3rd world highly
                          populated country] have the potential to, in the
                          long run, make the culture in the host country
                          more like the 3rd world country.
                       \_ Not the pp, but jumping in here: actually, yes.
                          If NL hires guest workers from Chad, and those
                          workers come to appreciate the liberal freedoms of
                          the west, they'll export those ideas along with the
                          cash remittals. Consumerism has been shown over and
                          over again to be much more prolific than any
                          religion or ideology, given sufficient access to
                          resources and products.
              \_ Or you can get mass die off of the fast reproducers, which
                 we will probably see in a generation or two.
                 \_ A mass die off caused by what?  Is there some magic
                    disease that only infects people who have more than 2.2
                    children?
                    \_ Famine, disease, warfare, the usual things that
                       cause mass die offs, what else? It is already starting
                       to happen in some of the overpopulated parts of Africa.
        \_ You're begging the question; the societies which treat women
           equally are significantly out-competing the societies which
           don't.  -tom
           \_ Not in population, which is probably the most important metric
              from an evolutionary perspective.
              \_ Not if you're talking about survival of the society
                 (as opposed to the genotype).  -tom
           \_ In what way?  If there was a world wide plague which wiped out
              a few billion people, the less technically dependent people
              would have an advantage in numbers and societal structure in
              the aftermath.
              \_ So why aren't well all cockroaches.  Oh yeah, because pure
              \_ The U.S. is much better equipped to deal with a world wide
                 plague than India or China, partly because we haven't
                 overpopulated in the way those countries have.  If plague
                 with high mortality hits and the U.S. drops down to 100
                 million population and China drops down to 200 million,
                 does that mean China is doing beter?  -tom
              \_ So why aren't we all cockroaches.  Oh yeah, because pure
                 biomass is not what makes something a dominant species.  This
                 is especially true when talking about memes instead of genes.
                 \_ Cockroaches don't (can't?) compete in our ecological
                    sphere. We can eat cockroaches for example. Other humans
                    do compete with us: they use the same resources and inhabit
                    the same gene pool. Domination only matters if the dominant
                    ones are willing to crush the subordinate ones like
                    Nazis, an ideology which has been rejected. Hitler was a
                    Nazi. And thus the discussion is complete.
                 \_ You aren't cockroaches because the cockroaches are the
                    cockroaches.  Who says cockroaches haven't already won
                    from a survival and evolutionary perspective?  Long after
                    your pathetic species has imploded, the taken for granted
                    little cockroaches will still be here skittering about,
                    doing our cockroach things.  We pity you, human.  We've
                    already won, you just don't know it.
2007/9/25-27 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:48186 Activity:high
9/24    Love flying? Better take a blood thinning medication. Your risk
        of a blood clot on a flight is a whopping 1 in 4656.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20974035
        \_ We're going back in time!
        \_ Here's the original paper: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2lpeo8
           They specifically do not recommend taking blood-thinners
           prophylactically.  Also, your risk of getting a blood clot
           is about 1 in 1000 per year even if you never fly.  They
           estimate that flying a lot increases your yearly risk by 3x.
           \_ They say that anticoagulant use is not justified in the
              general case, but may benefit some.
        \_ This ties in well with the question about drinking. Drink a lot
           of booze before the flight and you will not be nervous and you
           will reduce your chances of dying, too.
           \_ Apparently, alcohol actually increases risks of blood clots.
                -- ilyas
              \_ How can that be? Doesn't, for example, red wine thin the
                 blood?
        \_ Love being crammed into a tiny, loud space at 30,000 ft? Better
           get your head examined!
           \_ Some people have no choice.
              \_ How could you possibly have "no choice"? Did you get
                 handcuffed and forced on a plane?
2007/9/25-27 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:48182 Activity:very high
9/25    So, anyone know offhand *why* healthcare costs are going up
        at 3x inflation?  What is driving this insane inflation in
        health costs?  Are health costs snowballing because more and
        more are uninsured, forcing the fewer and fewer insured to
        pay more and more to cover the uninsured?  If so, is this
        a government-created crisis, because hospitals by law cannot
        turn away those without health insurance, and so they *must*
        screw their fewer and fewer remaining paying customers?
        *Where is all that money going?*  --PeterM
        \_ You are a scientist, Peter.  Pretend American healthcare is a
           natural system.  What experiments would you set up to figure this
           out? -- ilyas
           \_ [serious callers only]
           out?  [Have something to contribute other than a retarded troll and
           you won't be deleted.] -- ilyas
        \_ Self follow-on--some claim doctors are receiving the
           lion's share of the increase in cost as salary.  Is that
           true?  Are we being driven bankrupt by a lot of greedy
           fucking doctors?  Or are they merely responding to
           increased malpractice costs?  --PeterM
           \_ It's not going to doctors who, on an hourly basis, make less
              now than doctors did 30 years ago. Most doctors have had to
              see a lot more patients to keep their salaries flat. Doctors
              say that the money is going to the HMOs. It should be easy
              to verify that by looking at their profits. My guess is that
              \_ Not necessarily, it could be the 'dead hand' effect. -- ilyas
              the money is going to more expensive and complicated procedures
              like MRIs and heary bypass surgery that were almost unheard
              like MRIs and heart bypass surgery that were almost unheard
              of in the 1970s and which are now extremely common. Valve
              transplants, chemotherapy, and the like are very expensive.
              Some procedures have been made cheaper with, for example,
              laproscopy, but there are so many new ones and the technology
              and drugs are expensive. Before health costs were cheaper
              because you *died*. Now medicine can keep you alive for a
              large fee.
           \_ i just heard it was to fund the bureaucracy that is American
              health care
        \_ Hint: what causes inflation?
           \_ Answer: increase in the money supply.  There is more money
              chasing after the services.  Now, why is there more money doing
              this?
              \_ People don't want to die. For most it's worth it to pay
                 $1000/month in insurance to avoid dying when you need
                 that $150K surgery. Some treatments (like for HIV) cost
                 in excess of $1M.
                 \_ I'm not sure I agree with your explanation.  Yes, people
                    don't want to die, and there is more money chasing
                    services, but isn't that because people are living much
                    longer, and, generally speaking, older individuals need
                    more medical care and have more money to pay for it?
                    -dans
                    \_ "need more medical care" = "not wanting to die"
                       No one *needs* medical care. It may not seem like a
                       conscious choice, but it is. Examine how people
                       respond when faced with a terminal illness. Some
                       people choose to go home and die quietly. Others
                       choose to spend thousands and thousands of dollars
                       on treatment that probably won't help. More people
                       are choosing to use expensive medical services and
                       that is why they are living longer. Of course,
                       there is a cost to doing so - a cost that a whole
                       society seems willing to bear so far, although I
                       think we are getting close to the breaking point.
                       \_ Um, by your rationale, no one needs food.  I find
                          your viewpoint to be either exceptionally stupid or
                          exceptionally crass.  Also, terminal illnesses are,
                          by definition, uncurable.  The current attitude
                          toward treating terminal illnesses isn't one of
                          trying to cure them, but of trying to provide a
                          patient with an acceptable level of quality of life.
                          This need not be expensive, e.g., morphine is cheap.
                          -dans
                          \_ You think that we are not trying to treat/cure
                             terminal illnesses like AIDS and cancer? Get over
                             your gut-level reaction to my response and read
                             what I am saying, which is that people are choosing
                             expensive medical care versus dying. Do you
                             dispute that? The reason people did not
                             choose that medical care before is because it
                             did not exist. That doesn't mean it needs to
                             exist. Just because some people have Ferraris
                             doesn't mean we all are entitled to one. BTW,
                             we don't need medical care like we need food.
                             It's perfectly possible to live to 60-70-80
                             years old without ever seeing a doctor.  People a
                             century ago lived that long and longer - maybe
                             not as many of them, but that's life. Medicine is
                             extending lives and that is very much a choice
                             people make.
                             people make. My gf's grandma had a valve
                             transplant at 87 years old. She's now 93. 100
                             years ago she'd be dead, but society said
                             it's worth $150K (or whatever) to give her
                             another 5-10 years of life.
                             \_ Thank you for proving my point. -dans
                             \_ Medical care is a human right. -dans
                                \_ No.
                                   \_ From the UN Declaration of Human Rights:
                                      Article 25.
                                         \_ This document is a joke, and is
                                            even self-conflicting.
                                            See Article 17
                                            \_ Kindly cite a document you deem
                                               to be worthy of your eminence.
                                               -dans
                                      (1) Everyone has the right to a standard
                                      of living adequate for the health and
                                      well-being of himself and of his family,
                                      including food, clothing, housing and
                                      medical care and necessary social
                                      services, and the right to security in
                                      the event of unemployment, sickness,
                                      disability, widowhood, old age or other
                                      lack of livelihood in circumstances
                                      beyond his control.
                                      Your welcome to disagree, but, as I said
                                      earlier this makes you either a) stupid
                                      or b) an asshole. -dans
                                      \_ Figuring out what is a human right is
                                         a problem for philosophers, not
                                         something you leave up for the UN to
                                         define.  Fuck the UN.  -- ilyas
                                      \_ The American notion of human rights
                                         tends to be more along the lines of
                                         what's outlined in our Declaration of
                                         Independence.  Specifically, I'm
                                         thinking of "Life, liberty, and the
                                         pursuit of happiness."  What you're
                                         talking about is guaranteeing the
                                         success of an individual's pursuit
                                         of happiness.  This is a popular
                                         notion with the political left, and
                                         I appreciate that they have the best
                                         of intentions, but their intent is
                                         not sufficient to transform success
                                         into a natural human right.
                                         \_ I'm an American.  What gives you
                                            the right to generalize about the
                                            "American" notion of human rights?
                                            Furthermore, the idea that human
                                            rights differ from one nationality
                                            to the next is spectacularly
                                            stupid.  And, no, I'm not talking
                                            about guaranteeing the successful
                                            pursuit of happiness, I'm talking
                                            about the pursuit of *life*.
                                            Also, line originally read "Life,
                                            liberty, and the pursuit of
                                            property", but that doesn't read
                                            as well. -dans
                                      \_ I'm the pp and I am not the
                                         person who wrote "No". However, I
                                         agree to the extent that a
                                         minimal level of healthcare is a
                                         right. That doesn't mean all
                                         healthcare is a right.
                                      \_ I disagree because I think a right
                                         cannot be something that must be
                                         supplied by someone else.  Since someone
                                         must provide health care, it cannot
                                         be a right.
                                         \_ Well, everything is provided by
                                            someone else. Food, clothing, clean
                                            water, etc. Police/fire/security
                                            is also provided by someone else.
                                             \_no.  liberty can be taken by
                                               someone, but it is not "provided"
                                               see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those things
                                               you list rights.  Free speech, and
                                               bearing arms are rights, food is
                                               not.
                                               see
                                               http://urltea.com/1l4s (wikipedia)
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those
                                               things you list rights. Free
                                               speech, and bearing arms are
                                               rights, food is not.
                                               \_ Apparently you don't really
                                                  understand the concept of
                                                  Human Rights. -dans
                                      \_ What is "adequate" medical care? As
                                         has been mentioned, there is virtually
                                         no limit to what could be spent in
                                         medical efforts. Perhaps it should be
                                         the right to *access* medical care.
                                         (I also don't think the "right to
                                         housing" is implemented in this
                                         country. Maybe I didn't get the memo.)
                                         \_ That we as a society and a species
                                            fail to implement the ideal of
                                            human rights does not mean we
                                            should not strive to do so. -dans
                                            \_right. But the fact that striving
                                              to provide "positive" rights often
                                              results in a net loss of rights,
                                              should give us pause in our do-gooder
                                              zeal.  See _The Road to Smurfdom_
                                              by F.A. Hayek. -phuqm
                                            \_ right. But the fact that
                                               striving to provide "positive"
                                               rights often results in a net
                                               loss of rights, should give us
                                               pause in our do-gooder zeal.
                                               See _The Road to Smurfdom_ by
                                               F.A. Hayek. -phuqm
                                              \_ Um, no. -dans
                                      \_ I disagree because I think a right
                                         cannot be something that must be
                                         supplied by someone else.  Since someone
                                         must provide health care, it cannot
                                         be a right.
                                         \_ Well, everything is provided by
                                            someone else. Food, clothing, clean
                                            water, etc. Police/fire/security
                                            is also provided by someone else.
                                             \_no.  liberty can be taken by
                                               someone, but it is not "provided"
                                               see
                                               http://urltea.com/1l4s (wikipedia)
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those
                                               things you list rights. Free
                                               speech, and bearing arms are
                                               rights, food is not.
                                               \_ Apparently you don't really
                                                  understand the concept of
                                                  Human Rights. -dans
                                                  \_ No, I just think mixing up
        things that must be provided (medical care) with things that just
        shouldn't be taken away (freedoms) is a very basic cognative mismatch.
        Certainly everyone having food and medical care is a good thing, but
        they are not rights. You can disagree, but it's evidence that you can't
        reason clearly.  A problem I see a lot these days.
        \_ It seems there's lots of mixing from all sides.  You're equating
           "rights" and "freedoms".  Rights are what the social contract allows
           one to justly claim.  As such, I personally believe access to health
           care and education should be defined as "rights" in this wealthy
           country of ours.  Freedom is an interesting word.  The realm of free
           men.  Hmm..  Check FDR's four freedoms speech.  There's a lot more
           muddiness than you seem willing to admit.  You're treading into
           "what are we as a nation" territory with blinders on.  --scotsman
           \_ Who said anything about restricting this to our nation?
              \_ Well, as you're claiming medical care isn't a right, you're
                 not talking about most of Europe, or even most of the
                 developed world, other than US.  Do you know what you're
                 saying? --scotsman
                    \_ Insurance and gov't funded medicare/aid is funneling
                       tons of money into health care.  The 3rd party payer is
                       making sure no one knows how much anything costs.  Only
                       now with HSAs are we encouraging people to pay attention
                       to costs.  Some of the money is going to administrative
                       costs of dealing with insurance/medicare reimbursement.
                       \_ You think medicare is less transparent than HMOs
                          and medical insurance companies?  How much of
                          Medicare spending would you say goes to
                          administrative costs?
                          \_ Medicare is significantly more transparent than
                             private health insurance plans/companies.
                             Medicare's administrative costs are exceptionally
                             low, i.e. under 5%.  This is all well documented,
                             and can be easily verified with a simple google
                             search. -dans (not pp)
                             \_ Have you ever actually known anyone on MC?  I
                                do.  I'd rather have the opaque HMO/POS/PPO
                                system.
                          \_ Transparancy isn't the issue. It's the issue of
                             knowing what insurance/medicare will or won't
                             cover, submitting requests for reimbursement, etc.
                             \_ How or why is this an issue?  Yeah, insurance
                                could be less complex/more user friendly but,
                                it's not that complicated.  Filing an
                                insurance claim is certainly no more complex
                                than filing taxes, and most people seem
                                capable of doing that. -dans
                                \_ LOL! Re: Taxes
                                   My neighbor is a doctor and when his
                                   stay-at-home wife finally decided to
                                   help out in the office she found
                                   thousands of dollars in claims that had
                                   not been paid to him. There's a lot of
                                   following up that has to be done and
                                   the process is VERY complicated. He has
                                   a staff of maybe 4 people to handle
                                   this for his practice, which has 3
                                   other partners, and his wife (who has a
                                   vested interest in it and thus did a
                                   better job than the staff did) found all
                                   of this mess. Have you ever had a major
                                   illness? If you have you'd know that even
                                   the people billing you have no idea what you
                                   do or do not owe. It takes months or even
                                   years for it all to be sorted out and
                                   even then there's probably still money
                                   on the table that no one bothers tracking.
                                   It's a big game where the insurance
                                   company refuses to pay until you retain a
                                   lawyer (more $$$) and they can have
                                   their doctors examine you and so on.
                                   \_ I'm sorry, but you're just wrong.  The
                                      situation where you need to hire a
                                      lawyer to get your insurance to pay out
                                      is an abberation.  It is not the norm.
                                      Either that or your insurance carrier
                                      just sucks. -dans
                                      \_ I am not saying it is the norm,
                                         but it is common if you have big
                                         medical bills. Have you ever had
                                         big medical bills, especially
                                         from an emergency (where approvals
                                         and such were not done beforehand
                                         and you go to the hospital the
                                         ambulance takes you to)? If not,
                                         you are the one who is wrong. If
                                         so, do tell. I have personal
                                         experience with this and when my
                                         old employer changed medical
                                         plans (to one that sucked) we had
                                         an open forum where I heard
                                         stories you've probably never
                                         dreamed of. One guy was paying $800
                                         per month out of pocket for his own
                                         diabetes treatment *with insurance*
                                         because it was "pre-existing" and
                                         that coverage took a year to kick in.
                                         I think you only know from
                                         healthy 20something s/w engineer
                                         who uses Kaiser HMO to have
                                         bloodwork done.
                                         \_ Oh dear oh dear are you ever
                                            wrong.  I have two navels.  I was
                                            born with one.  I have a pre-ex.
                                            I know how to read an insurance
                                            contract.  What you're describing
                                            is neither normal, nor common.
                                            Please go read some actual
                                            statistics.  Incidentally, you do
                                            realize that pre-ex causes reduce
                                            realize that pre-ex clauses reduce
                                            what you pay as a private
                                            individual for health care? -dans
        \_ It's definitely not being eaten by doctors.  Doctors' costs of
           business, particularly malpractice insurance, is growing much
           faster than their salaries.  I have a friend who just graduated
           from med school and she tells me that her net income from
           practicing medicine will likely never exceed what I make writing
           code for a startup.  To put it mildly, this is fucked. -dans
           \_ She probably will make more, even accounting for the costs
              of medical school, but she won't pull ahead until very late
              in her career. The nice thing about being a doctor is that
              at 70 you can still see a few patients and make $80K/year
              while I doubt you will be coding at that age. However, your
              comment about insurance is correct. Lawyers pay about
              $13K/year for malpractice insurance, but OB/GYN pay about
              $100K/year. Critics would point out that doctors in the US still
              make more than doctors anywhere else in the world, though,
              even accounting for these expenses. BTW, why do you think
              it's "fucked" that you make more than a doctor? You are both
              professionals providing services society wants. I think it's
              fucked that doctors make 3-4x what nurses make. It's not
              like your friend is going to have a bad life or anything.
        \_ Free market efficiency!
           If we had socialized medicine, we'd be paying 10x for lower quality!
        \_ So what it seems like to me, is that insurance policies need
           to severely limit the upper end of heroic medical measures
           they'll cover, and who they'll cover them for.  No heart
           transplants for 55-year-old males with liver disease.  But yes
           to emergency care for a 20-year-old in a car wreck, provided
           that care won't produce a $100k/yr vegetable to care for?
           No, to lifelong $1M/year drug regimens, but yes, to insulin?
           \_ And who are *you* to decide who lives and dies?
                \_ Is this a serious question?  To answer anyway:
                   I'm one of the decreasing number of people who pays
                   insurance and so covers the cost of heroic medicine.
                   Seems like I should have some say into how that
                   money is applied?
                   \_ No.  Really, the idea that you are some how propping up
                      the system with your payments is an illusion. -dans
                      \_ Whose payments are propping it up if not yours,
                         mine, and his?
                         \_ Magic government money.
              \_ It should be decided by capacity to pay. If that's not
                 "fair" then what is fair? Is it worth $100B to keep the
                 Pope/President/your uncle alive? $300B? $3T? At what point do
                 you say "Just let the guy die?". It's unpleasant to think
                 about, but it really comes down to dollars and cents and a
                 life does have a value placed on it.
                 \_ Agreed that it sould be decided by capacity to pay.  That's
                    not the same as insurance companies "severely" limiting it.
        \_ I would say the the standard of care has skyrocketed. All those devices,
           drugs, trained people, complex procedures, throw-away sterile materials,
           operating rooms, MRIs, fiber-optic cameras.  And most of it is just
           accepted as "the norm".  It goes way beyond just keeping people alive
           and comparing total money spent vs. life expectancy. We pamper ourselves,
           and it's in the health care industry's interest to do so.
           Washing your hands and taking an aspirin would probably get the job done,
           but you "have a right to the best healthcare available."
           It's a vicious cycle of madness, and we're all part of it.
        \_ Would any of you all believe that I didn't post my question
           as a troll?  I really wanted to know.  Unfortunately, I don't
           think the motd provided real clarity.  Perhaps I was a fool
           to ask.  The study I Googled (and commented on above) made
           the claim that most of the increase has gone into doctor's
           salaries.  To dans:  I don't believe the economic wherewhithal
           exists on the planet to provide everyone with heroic Western
           style medical care.  I doubt that the economic wherewithal
           \_ Western style medical care really isn't that heroic.  'First do
              no harm' is an ideological core value of Western medical
              education, and this means doctors are trained to be skeptical
              of heroic procedures with low odds of successful outcome /
              medical heroics in general. -dans
           exists to provide even basic medical care to everyone.  It
           seems insane to define "what cannot be provided" as a right.
           And what about the right to keep the fruits of your labor?
           That's in **direct** competition with any universal
           entitlement to any product or service.  We should keep
           "rights" restricted to equal
           opportunities (freedom) rather than entitlements.  As an
           extreme, if someone has a "right" to medical care, then
           someone else--whether he wants to or not, must provide
           that care.  Doctors as slaves?  --PeterM
           \_ To simply put, cost rise is associated with the rise of
              new medicines and new treatments, and American's attitude
              of "I deserve the best treatment." Many years ago we didn't
              have advanced MRI and other expensive drugs which we all
              are now paying for.
              \_ Please provide evidence to support your questionable
                 claims.  When you say 'we are paying for', do you mean
                 'we are paying for through insurance coverage' or 'we
                 are paying for out of pocket'? -dans
                 \_ You were very free to call people "stupid" or "assholes"
                    above for not agreeing that people have a right to
                    medical care.  Now, this guy said that we are paying
                    for medical care.  He's right.  There's no free lunch.
                    Insurance premiums come out of our pocket.  What
                    distinction are you trying to make to invalidate his
                    claim that "we are paying for"?
           \_ Any study that concludes that the money went to the doctors
              is pushing an agenda, because there's no way that's true.
              My neighbor is a partner at a busy neurology practice and he
              would argue all day long about how to make money now you
              have to see a lot of patients (not provide a good standard
              of care), get a good survey rating (translates into
              dropping patients with chronic health problems because they
              complain all the time), avoid research (who has time to
              participate in studies), and probably still make less than
              his dad (who was a doctor) did. His dad lived in a mansion
              in Larchmont and he lives next to me in a 1300 square foot
              house. His dad drove a Jaguar. He drives a Passat. His dad
              built a greenhouse for his mom's orchids. He waters the lawn
              by hand because it's not in the budget to redo the aging
              sprinklers. I don't want to say that I am basing my
              statement on purely anecdotal evidence, but the reality is
              that malpractice insurance and HMOs have eroded the medical
              profession. To claim that doctors now make 3x more than
              before (costs have risen 3X according to your premise) is
              ridiculous. They make less than before just like many of us.
              Let's see this study you found. Are you sure it didn't look
              at gross pay for doctors and ignored that they pay 25% of
              revenues for malpractice insurance and that they have to hire
              2 people fulltime just to figure out the insurance paperwork?
              \_ Doctors made out pretty well in this country *until* the
                 HMOs and high malpractice insurance came along.  I think
                 that says it all.
                 \_ Yes. Now we pay 3x as much for care and it doesn't
                    even go to the doctor or nurses but instead to lawyers
                    and insurance companies. This is much better!
2007/9/24-25 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:48170 Activity:moderate
9/24    So you deleted my honest, 100 percent truth request for advice
        for how the fuck do i get all this blood out of my pants
        after I leaked blood all over the fucking place, but you left in
        the stupid 'oh no everyone in world has herpes!' obvious
        troll?  thanks.
        \_ use COLD water, because hot will solidify the irons (red) stain.
           Don't use bleach, it will not disolve hemoglobin. Use cold water
           with LOTS of ENZYME cleaners. You need to watch Court TV if you
           ever want to kill and get away with murder. Hope this helps.
        \_ Just out of curiousity, have you consulted a doctor about this
           blood coming out of your ass?
           \_ It's called hemroids.  Look it up.
                \_ Or not enough lube
              \_ Yeah, I've had hemroids, but I've never had blood pour out
                 of my butt.
                 \_ I crap bigger than you.
                    \_ I have had much reduced issues with hemroids (sp?)
                       since I improved my diet to include more fruits&
                       veggies and fiber in general.  Also, drink more
                       water, and don't "hold it"--shit when you have to
                       shit, don't postpone it.
2007/9/22-26 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/General] UID:48151 Activity:kinda low
9/22    I just heard there's no cure for genital herpes! SHIt!!! Doesn't
        this mean it's just a matter of time (in the history of mankind)
        before EVERYONE in this world get herpes?               -pissed
        \_ No.  It doesn't mean that *at all*.
        \_ Only 25% of the people have it. If all 25% of the promiscuous
           carriers have sex with each other, that percentage should
           remain at 25%.
           http://www.rti.org/newsroom/news.cfm?nav=437&objectid=D5231081-EE6A-440D-A7F053B143AC595E
           http://urltea.com/1ki0 (rti.org)
        \_ http://www.h-date.com
           Herpes Dating, with Pictures. Now you can meet other singles
           who have herpes and not worry about anything anymore!
        \_ http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0737,taormino,77775,24.html
           NINETY percent of Americans have already been exposed to HSV-1.
           Americans are HORNY!
        \_ it's just herpes.  it won't kill you.
        \_ You're an idiot.
        \_ If everyone could keep it in their pants, all STDs would die out.
           Chew on that one for a while.
           \_ And if the sun burned out tomorrow, everything would die out.
              Your tautology is astounding.
              \_ Keeping it in your pants is your choice.  Therein lies the
                 difference.
        \_ It's just herpes.  over 70% of the world has a cold sore.
           deal.
2007/9/12-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:48043 Activity:high
9/12    I just found out a horrific crime occured this weekend on a
        shady street corner where I usually walk to/from home. I'm
        pretty shocked and at the same time not too surprised.
        I'm thinking about buying a taser for personal safety. What
        are the legal requirements for getting a taser? Age, safety
        class, waiting period, citizenship, background check, etc?
        Thanks for any help. I spent two hours crying!  -concerned
        \_ Take Karate lessons. It's a lot safer, plus you'll look good.
        \_ Format Windows, install Linux, and work from home. And ride bike.
           \_ super buff guy riding bike gets mugged by two huge guys
                knocking him out and taking his bike.. karate? ..
                concealed weapons carry a gun
        \_ Now you see why so many of us drive cars instead of taking
           public transit or walking. With a car you are not immune from
           crime, but it sure beats walking on the street alone at night.
           \_ troll++ well done.
           \_ Bahahahaha this is funny. How about a Hummer? You can run
              over gun wielding assholes and still be safe. Also you can't
              possibly find parking in downtown or Berkeley without having
              to walk through shady spots.
              \_ Even a Geo Metro can run over gun-wielding assholes and still
                 be safe.
                 \_ You must have missed the episode of Mythbusters testing
                    guns vs. cars.  Guns win.
                 \_ But...but...the movie always shows cars explode if you
                    shoot the hood, and flip if you shoot the tires!
                    \_ But if you shoot the driver he slumps over and the
                       horn stays on for a long time.
           \_ I am sure your chance of becoming a lardass and dying of
              heart disease from avoiding walking is much higher than your
              chance of dying in a mugging. But go ahead and live in fear,
              it doesn't bother me one bit.
              \_ Because if you drive you're not allowed to exercise.  You are
                 only allowed to exercise by walking in dangerous areas.  Got
                 it, thanks.
                 \_ Sure, you can counteract the effects if you actually have
                    the time and discipline to do so, but how many have that?
                    Are you familiar with the studies correlating miles
                    driven with heart disease and obesity?
                    http://www.rand.org/news/press.04/09.27.html
        \_ Where do you live?  In some counties you can get a CCW without too
           much trouble.
           \_ What is CCW?
              \_ Carry Concealed Weapon.
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry
2007/8/23-27 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:47732 Activity:nil
8/23    "Infectious diseases spreading faster than ever: U.N."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070822/hl_nm/un_dc
        "It warned that global efforts to control infectious diseases have
        already been "seriously jeopardized" by widespread drug resistance,
        a consequence of poor medical treatment and misuse of antibiotics."
        \- one of the best non-fiction books i have read is THE COMING PLAGUE.
           \_ Second that--and I'll add it's by far the scariest book
              I have ever read.  That's including fiction.
        \_ But the housing bubble will kill us all before this ever happens!
2007/8/22-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:47713 Activity:moderate
8/22    'broad spectrum antibiotics' is my favorite position
        \_ "Infectious diseases spreading faster than ever: U.N."
           http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070822/hl_nm/un_dc
           "It warned that global efforts to control infectious diseases have
           already been "seriously jeopardized" by widespread drug resistance,
           a consequence of poor medical treatment and misuse of antibiotics."
2007/8/10-13 [Health/Disease/General] UID:47582 Activity:nil
8/10    This isn't new, but:
        http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map
        It looks like obesity is a disease that began in the midwest
        and then took over the coasts.
        \_ Obesity is not a contagious disease.  Or even a disease.
2007/8/2-22 [Health/Disease/General] UID:47518 Activity:nil
8/2     Detect cervical cancer at home! (You need a speculum):
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20094806
2007/7/25-26 [Recreation/Pets, Health/Disease/General] UID:47423 Activity:nil
7/25    Guess what I found a really really cool site! Now you can find out
        your dog's sire/dam (assume they're registered) along with their
        genetic diseases (OptiGen test, CERF test, HIP test, etc). From
        this you can [manually] generate a pedigree and find out if your
        dog is from inbreed/linebreed, or inherited disease, etc!
        Here's an example:
        http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1266552#animal
2007/7/17-19 [Health/Dental, Health/Disease/General] UID:47308 Activity:moderate
7/17    Americans actually wait *longer* for health care than in
        countries with socialized medicine:
        http://www.csua.org/u/j5t
        \_ While this may be true, don't forget that Americans get
           HIGHER quality health care, like Cialis and Viagras. No
           other countries enjoy sexual lives like we do.
        \_ This blog is a joke, and so is Krugman.  Every study I've seen shows
           the opposite to this.  Bring a few more and I'll start to care.
           -emarkp
           \_ Both of them are professors in Economics, but they disagree with
              your opinions, so they are "a joke." Hers is a study quoted in
              Busness Week, no doubt another "joke"
              http://www.csua.org/u/j5u
              Where are all these studies you have seen? I have not seen them.
              \_ This is the blog which was saying that tax cuts tanked the
                 economy pointing to the post-2001 drop, while ignoring other
                 events of 2001 (like say certiain terrorist attacks).
                 http://www.csua.org/u/j3f
                 The studies I've seen are about how long it takes to go from a
                 GP to a specialist in socialized systems.  Like how long it
                 takes to get an MRI.
                 http://csua.org/u/i1p
                 Note: also an economist.  -emarkp
                 \_ No, the entry you point to does not claim or even infer
                    that "tax cuts tanked the economy." How did you even
                    possibly get that from that entry? What it does claim
                    is that the post-2001 recovery was very weak. The economy
                    was already in recession before 9/11, you know that right?
                    The actual economic effect of the WTC attacks was very
                    slight, but I guess you can try and claim that it retarded
                    the recovery somehow, though you are the first person I
                    have ever seen make that claim.
                    slight, but I guess you can say that it retarded the
                    recovery somewhat, though most economists disagree:
                    recovery somewhat:
                    http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31617.pdf
                 \_ Waiting times in Canada are shorter for critical
                    treatment (oncology) and longer for elective treatment
                    (plastic surgery, hip replacement).
                    (plastic surgery, hip replacement). Note that your
                    article does not compare Canadian waiting time to
                    US waiting times.
                    http://www.csua.org/u/j5y
        \_ I'd be willing to fund preventative care (e.g. checkups) for
           everyone, but nothing beyond that basic. That's basically what
           dental plans cover. If you implement universal care then you
           will see costs spiral even more out of control like they have
           in Europe. There was a time two decades ago when European health
           care was better than in the US, but that time passed once they
           had to deal with immigration from poor countries in the same
           way we have.
           \_ Waiting times less in Canada than the US:
              http://www.csua.org/u/j5v
              Recent statistics from the Institution of Healthcare Improvement
              document "that people are waiting an average of about 70
              days to see a provider."
              "In many circumstances, people initially diagnosed with
               cancer are waiting over a month, which is intolerable."
              And you know that Germany and France spend *less* per capita
              than the US, right?
              \_ I don't know about Germany and France, but I do know that
                 I wouldn't seek out care in Spain or Canada and that
                 health care in the Netherlands (see below) is not exactly
                 improving over time. By the way, do you know anyone who
                 had to wait 70 days to see a doctor? I don't, unless it
                 was some specific doctor they wanted to see.
                 \_ I know people who have completely been denied medical
                    care they needed because they didn't have insurance.
                    I don't know if that counts as more than 70 days or not...
                    \_ It shouldn't.
                       \_ I had a chance to talk to this guy last night
                          since I had dinner with him and his daughter.
                          He is waiting on average two months for his
                          appointments. He is impoverished and has to
                          depend on SF General for all his care. He has
                          some kind of kidney problems.
           \_ We spend twice as much, per capita, as other countries on
              health care, so it's our costs that are spiraling out of
              control, not theirs.  Universal health care just creates the
              largest insurance pool possible, do you also want to make
              private insurance illegal (except for basic dental services)?
              Whether you pay premiums to your for-profit insurance company
              or taxes to the government really doesn't make that much
              difference except the government doesn't have a profit motive.
        \_ One of the main reasons health care in the United States is
           so expensive is we spend the bulk of money over the lifetime
           of a human on medical care, in the last 6 months of life.  Near
           The End, American doctors order heroic tests and procedures
           to prolong the life of the patient, often cutting short
           those expected 6 months.  In those glorious socialist paradises
           those expected 6 months.  In the glorious socialist paradises
           of Europe, near The End, the doctor tells the family, and orders
           pain killers to keep the patient comfortable.  How would
           pain killers to keep the patient comfortable.  How
           would the United States gradually move closer to the European
           model?  I have absolutely no idea.
           \_ Can you back this up with any data?  I'm wondering if
              your source is legitimate or just word-of-mouth or
              speculation.
              \- San Francisco has many sidewalks.
                 \- Do you have some data to back that up?
           \_ I have seen it both ways. American doctors told my aunt to
              go home and die while Dutch doctors tried heroic measures
              that saved her life. I also have seen Dutch doctors give up
              on elderly patients and euthanize them. I think it depends
              on the age of the patient. (My aunt was in her 40s at the
              time.) Dutch medicine then was much better than in the US,
              but my aunts living there now say it is no longer the case
              and that benefits have been slashed from what they used to be.
              I have aunts in France and Holland, a friend who is a doctor in
              Greece, and ex-coworkers in Mexico, Japan, Korea, France,
              and Spain, and US health care (with the exception of some
              experimental treatments the FDA will not approve) is the
              best in the world. It is also not free. Imagine that. The
              Socialist Paradises in Europe and Japan are facing an upcoming
              nightmare that makes the US Social Security problem seem
                                       \- the people who know what they are
                                          talking about all agree Medicare
                                          is a much bigger financial liabiliy/
                                          problem than Soc Sec.
              small in comparison. They just cannot provide the services
              they used to when faced with larger, less wealthy populaces
              of the sort that the US has been absorbing for a long time.
              \_ In what way is the US health care system the best in the
                 world? Do you have any evidence for that, other than your
                 assertion? The government pays for about half of all
                 healthcare in the US, btw, so your comment that it is
                 not "free" is somewhat misleading. In places like Germany
                 and France, the government pays for about 3/4 of all
                 health care costs.
        \_ I am surprised nobody is discussing the RAND healthcare study, which
           found that on average, medical spending has no effect on health (!):
           http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/05/rand_health_ins.html
           http://www.rand.org/health/projects/hie
           If this study is correct, discussions of comparative health care
           quality would have to come with some serious qualifiers.
             -- ilyas
                \- yes, obviously something complicated like this comes
                   with qualifiers. for example the US's infant mortality
                   rate is "higher than it should be" because "the US"
                   tries to save some high-risk newborns, while in certain
                   (poorer) countries with allegedly lower IM rates, these
                   DOA cases get listed in a different column. however, that
                   doesnt change the large scale incentive issues here, e.g.
                   insurance companies foot dragging ... just like TIH hasnt
                   solved the cable problem, "the market" wont magically
                   "solve" the pathologies in insurance [actually it is not
                   exactly like cable, which is due to concentration, but this
                   is a problem of moral haz and adv selection also] and
                   it's not clear what "solve" means, since there are competing
                   public policy goals here.
                   \_ It seems that if spending doesn't result in statistically
                      significant return, AND there's isn't a lot of noise to
                      figure out why and correct this (or at least clamor for
                      bigger studies), then return isn't what
                      the spending is about.  Hanson has some conjectures on
                      the reasons for our common attitudes about healthcare
                      spending.  -- ilyas
2007/7/13-18 [Health/Disease/General] UID:47283 Activity:kinda low 66%like:47289
7/13    bull scores double kancho
        [unshortened url deleted by self appointed idiot]
        \_ FINE
           http://tinyurl.com/2ssdg3
           \_ "Michael Lenahan had recently overcome testicular cancer that had
              spread to his abdomen and the brothers were celebrating."
           \_ "Michael Lenahan had recently overcome testicular cancer that
              had spread to his abdomen and the brothers were celebrating."
              This family's genital areas really have bad luck.
           \_ This one is my fav:
              http://www.csua.org/u/j5a
              \_ No massive bleeding???
        \_ Why the hack would anybody run in this?
           \_ Because danger is exciting? I think there are much better
              thrills to be had. I guess there's also a mystique to bulls
              and Spain that probably goes back to Hemingway. And I guess
              lots of people are idiots.
2007/7/10-16 [Health/Disease/General, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:47246 Activity:moderate
7/10    Global Warming Could Fuel War - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/j3z
        "The authors reviewed 899 wars fought in China between 1000 and 1911
        and found a correlation between the frequency of warfare and records
        of temperature changes."
        \_ Universal Privatization will solve the problem!    -Republican
        \_ economics cause wars.  When you have an economy that is largely
           depends upon weather, it is not a surprise that weather changes
           cause wars.   This is also the reason why a lot of information the
           Emperor collects are percipataion records through out the land...
           He knew his throne is depend upon it.
           \_ You mean Emperor George II of the Royal House of Bush?
        \_ Aggression increases with temperature. Just look at how people
           in S Cal drive. Also look at Africa and the # of wars.
           South=dumb, north=smart.
           \_ Damn those dumb ... smart Canadians.
           \_ Yes, the peaceful Vikings.
           \_ Yes, England was very peaceful. You have to tell me
              what you are smoking.
        \_ good thing it's imaginary
        \_ Global Warming causes *everything*.  Didn't you know?
           \_ I thought everything caused GW?
              \_ GWB causes GW, so by transitivity...
        \_ Jared Diamond's "Collapse" has some pretty good analysis of
           architectural evidence of wars and conflict surrounding the tail
           archaeological evidence of wars and conflict surrounding the tail
           end of the Mayan, Greenland-Norse, and Easter-Island civilizations
           when they hit a time of severe resource shorages brought on by
           climate change.
           \_ Greenland Norse did great when it was warm.  When it was cold it
              was unsurvivably cold.  Mayans most likely died of disease.
              Easter Islanders simply used up their island.  I'm sure it is
              a really good book anyway.
           \_ Jared Diamond is far too intelligent too attribute multiple
              \_ If it's unsurvivably cold, how did the Inuit continue living
                 there?  -tom
                 \_ because they were better adapted to living there
                    (culturally).  This is one of the things covered in the
                    book, whose tag-line also is 'How Societies choose to
                    Fail or Succeed'.  The Norse were doing some outright
                    stupid stuff, including, oddly, not eating fish, one of
                    the most abundant food supplies there.
                    \_ I've read the book.  My point is that the Greenland
                       Norse more or less chose to starve to death rather than
                       change their culture.  Greenland is not unsurvivably
                       cold, it's just unsurvivably cold for bovine-based
                       agriculture.  -tom
                       \_ Yes.  And we know what about the vikings?  Oh yeah
                          that they had a farm+cow based culture and didn't
                          change.  From which we can conclude it was
                          unsurvivably cold for our subjects.  Thank you.
                          \_ 32 degrees is "unsurvivably cold" for someone
                             who refuses to put on a jacket.  The point is
                             that Greenland temperatures are survivable,
                             but the society collapsed due to poor choices.
                               -tom
                             \_ Greenland didn't hit 32 degrees.  Maybe 32
                                below.  Their society did not have the skills
                                or cultural understanding of what was required
                                to live in temps like that and wouldn't have
                                wanted to anyway.  Even the Thuule/Eskimo/etc
                                had summer and winter homes they migrated
                                between.  You can bet your ass they didn't
                                winter in Greenland during a mini-ice age
                                because it was unsurvivable.
                                \_ The Norse didn't understand environments as
                                   cold as the southern tip of Greenland? Then
                                   what do you call Trondheim?
              \_ Not really.  They just barely hung on, and they were
                 dependent on imports of key items like iron tools.
                 \_ The Norse?  In Greenland?  They starved to death or left.
                    \_ And/or killed each other for resources during the bad
                       winters, but this was mostly just the usual opportunist
                       stuff. Also, some intermarried and disappeared into the
                       native population.
                       \_ The native population?  In Greenland?  At that time?
                          Say what?
                          \_ Also known as "eskimos"
                             \_ At what time do you think this happened?
                             \_ That's "Thule-Inuit" to you:
                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_people
                       \_ There's no evidence that the Norsemen ever
                          intermarried with the Greenlanders.
                          \_ You know, I don't if you're being contentious or
                             are arguing from an archeological/genetic POV.
                             The Norse were infamous for intermarriage; they
                             had extensive contact with the skraelingr in
                             Greenland; thus it's not a huge leap to infer
                             intermarriage. However, I have no archeological/
                             genetic proof to offer you.
           \_ Jared Diamond is far too intelligent to attribute multiple
              major collapse events to climate as a major cause.  -- ilyas
              major collapse events to climate as a major cause.
              I have touched Jared Diamond. -- ilyas
              \_ it wasn't just climate for all of them (Easter Island and
                 the Mayans were attributed more to environmental damge --
                 overfarmnig/deforestation), but the common thread  was
                 conflict/warfare over the few remaining limited resources.
                 Not surprising --  who would expect people to starve to
                 death peaceably.
                 \_ and in the cases where climate change was attributed, it
                    was more as the tipping point that drove a marginal society
                    over the edge into chaos and decline.
                    \_ any society that close to the edge will eventually tip.
                       be it disease, war, lack of some resource due to any
                       cause, they're going over.  climate change is not a
                       reason to fall over.  the effects from climate change
                       might be but only for a doomed weak society.
2007/7/8-10 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:47222 Activity:nil
7/8     George Lucas vindicated - women can die of a broken heart:
        http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=606042
2007/6/4-10 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46848 Activity:moderate
6/4     Enron exec gets only 2yr jail time for screwing up so many people's
        retirement:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/bs_nm/enron_sentencing_dc
        \- the real punishment issue is they got to "club fed" type
           prisons, not ass prisons. how many years in non-ass prison
           would you be willing to do to avoid 1 yr or ass prison?
           would you be willing to do to avoid 1 yr of ass prison?
           \_ Just send him to Iraq and tell him to patrol the city
              neighborhood for road side bomb...
           \_ As much as I hate Enron, I hate the idea that repeated gang
              rape is an acceptable punishment, especially one to joke
              around about, even more.
                \_ Quite aside from the gang rape and psych. trauma
                   there is the very high risk of infection.
              \- who is joking? i think it is a very serious inequity
                 in "the system" along the lines of the crack vs cocaine
                 sentencing disparity, some weird pathologies in the
                 mandatory sentencing guidelines etc. is your ass/non-ass
                 prison multipler less than 5? or maybe we should phrase
                 it in terms of "how many months are you willing to trade
                 for change in marginal risk of hepatitis, hiv etc." are
                 you willing to add a year to your sentence to take the
                 risk of hiv/hep from 5% to .1%?
                 \_ The prison system is broken.  The sentence itself should
                    be the punishment.  Getting raped, getting a disease, or
                    getting abused in some other way by the other inmates is
                    not justice and should not be part of the system.
                    \_ Agreed, but the solution is not softer sentencing for
                       corporate pirates.
                       \- Again, eliminating the abuses in the prison
                          system is a separate issue than the sentencing
                          disparity. For example you can feel the penalties
                          for drugs are overly harsh *across the board* but
                          it is a separate issue to look at the (racial)
                          disparate impact of the sentencing guidelines.
                          A better example, also turning on race, concerns
                          capital punishment. Again being pro/con capital
                          pusiment is a separate issue from the fact that
                          black people killing white people have VASTLY more
                          likely to get the death penalty than black people
                          "only" killing another black person. [and of course
                          this is a spearate issue than quality of repre-
                          sentation etc. but of course money makes a difference
                          whether it is law or medicine].
                          \_ OJ Simpson vs. Scott Peterson.
                           \_ The plural of ancedote is not data.
                          \_ I agree with you on the sentencing guidelines for
                             things like crack vs. cocaine.  It's all coke and
                             should be treated the same.  But is it?  Isn't
                             crack a much stronger version of the same basic
                             stuff?  Shouldn't a more serious substance get a
                             more serious penalty?  If not, then why treat
                             pot use as a decriminalised activity but send
                             coke users to jail?  Some lines?  No lines?  Or
                             just one big line that treats all drug offenses
                             the same?
                             \_ Coke and crack are both Sched. II substances;
                                as such, sentencing for possession/dealing
                                should be the same. However, judges have a
                                tendency to view coke-heads as still socially
                                redeemable, whereas crackheads are considered
                                irredeemable, and so sentences tend to be
                                harsher for crackheads. This is not consistent
                                with the espoused purpose of establing Scheds.
                                to begin with.
                                \- often there are arguments like "crackheads
                                   are more likely to commit other crimes"
                                   as opposed to upstanding wall street
                                   coke users, or suburban upper middle
                                   class coke heads etc. but it seems like
                                   you should only be able to convict people
                                   for what they did rather than statistical
                                   propensities ... like if the crack head
                                   paid for the crack by stealing car stereos
                                   you need to convict him of that rather than
                                   just infer it from "no visible means of
                                   support". on the flip side, you also have
                                   to wonder about "hate crime" laws with
                                   harsher pentalities, under the theory that
                                   hate-fuelled beatings are worse than run-
                                   of-the-mill beatings ... if a hate beating
                                   averages in 50stiches rather than 25 stiches
                                   surely there is a way to have the sentencing
                                   reflect the "actual damage" and dispense
                                   with the "thought crime" aspect. although
                                   i acknowledge something like hate-graffitti
                                   may be different from "<my gang> rules"
                                   type graffiti ... but once it advances to
                                   something like arson, i dunno if you really
                                   have to consider the "hate" element so
                                   much.
                                   \_ The why is always important in crime.
                                      For instance look at the difference
                                      between a premeditated mob hit and
                                      a crime of passion.
                                      \- fair point. but some whys matter.
                                         like premeditation. does it matter
                                         whether the premediated mob hit was
                                         for financial reaasons [like say
                                         remove competition/turf war ...
                                         fundamentally about money] or say
                                         to prevent a witness from testifying.
                                         but i think we agree sentencing is
                                         complicated and hard to make a
                                         determiistic function of n-variables.
                                         like for white collar crime how do
                                         you factor in the magnitude of the
                                         harm [embezzing $50k, vs $10m in
                                         some kind of securities fraud],
                                         what should be criminal vs civil
                                         penalties etc.
                                \_ Crack and coke are the same thing, one is
                                   not inherently stronger than the other,
                                   though the method they are used leads to
                                   slightly differrent effects. They may
                                   finally be eliminating the sentencing
                                   disparity, btw:
                           http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n656/a04.html
                                   \_ If the method of use of one leads to a
                                      greater (or less socially acceptable)
                                      effect then I'd claim it is "stronger".
                                      \- so for say assault, there should be
                                         different sentencing guidelines
                                         based on whether you are a welter-
                                         weight or heavyweight or a black-
                                         belt? how about just focusing on
                                         the actual damage. if somebody
                                         embezzles $2000 and buys math books
                                         vs. mexican drinking binge, should
                                         they get differnent sentences?
                                         \_ In the case of drug sentencing the
                                            charges are related to possession
                                            not your blood content.  So they
                                            have to look at the potential
                                            damage of selling 2kg of crack vs.
                                            2kg of coke.  If the potential
                                            damage is the same, then yes they
                                            should be punished the same.  If
                                            the crack is going to do more harm
                                            to the community than the coke then
                                            it should be punished more harshly.
                                            Does one actually have the
                                            potential to do more harm than the
                                            other?  I don't know.  But the
                                            judges dealing with these things
                                            seem to think so.
                                            \- drunk driving in a yugo vs a
                                               humvee are treated differently?
                                               yes, if the humvee drink driver
                                               kills somebody and the yugo
                                               driver just dents a mailbox,
                                               that should be treatement
                                               that should be treated
                                               differently but saything there
                                               are schedule I and schedule II
                                               cars for DUI, is kinda odd.
                                               \_ cars aren't drugs.  car
                                                  possession is not (yet) a
                                                  crime.  for a car wreck we
                                                  punish the effect.  for drug
                                                  possession we punish based on
                                                  potential effect.
                                                  \- in the case of drunk
                                                     driving you can go
                                                     after them without a
                                                     car wreck happening.
                                                     it's being in posession
                                                     of a car while driving
                                                     because that might lead
                                                     to a car wreck, a pot-
                                                     ential effect.
                                                     \_ And for that potential
                                                        effect, the punishment
                                                        is extremely high.  It
                                                        presumes that "this is
                                                        not your first time
                                                        doing it, so we'll
                                                        throw the book at you"
2007/6/1-5 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Skin] UID:46832 Activity:nil
6/1     Some stuff worth knowing for your next expedition to Africa.
        http://www.cybertracker.co.za/DangerousAnimals.html
        \_ "An Ostrich may attack humans if they get too close to its
           nest. It does not help to run away, since one will never
           outrun it."
           I don't need to outrun the ostrich, I just need to outrun you.
        \_ Shouldn't the URL be
           http://www.cybertracker.co.za/DangerousHumans.html
2007/5/31-6/13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Health/Disease/General] UID:46800 Activity:low
5/28    I'm in Mendocino now. What is worth doing here? I don't drink
        wine BTW.
        \_ Skunk Train.  Lost Coast beach hike (20+ miles).
           Buy hydroponics.  -tom
           \_ I 2nd the Lost Coast hike.  do it now, don't do it
              in the winter!
        \_ Mendocino is a pretty big place. Are you near Jenner or Ukiah
           or Leggett? Orr Hot Springs is quite nice, especially if you
           like naked hippies. There is great beer in Hopland, at the
           Medocino Brewing Company. You can kayak in the bay near Jenner.
           Bodega Bay is really beautiful and there are lots of things
           to do there, including diving for abalone. Occidental is nice
           to do there, including diving for abalone. Occidental is good
           if you want to get out of the fog. -ausman
        \_ Mendocino Brewing Company is good, as is Anderson Valley
           Brewing Company in Boonville. Try to find and read a copy
           of the _Letters of Wanda Tinasky_.
        \_ I was the op. Mendocino was a cute little walkable town. I
           liked going to the one and only supermarket. It was almost
           comparable to Trader Joe and Whole Food Market. Other than that
           all the shops were selling useless things that no one really
           needed. Food was pretty good, but nothing that you
           couldn't get from the city. Fort Bragg totally sucked unless
           you were interested in riding the Skunk Train. Weather was
           far from ideal-- it never got above 63F, and overcast all the
           time. Cold and windy. The drive to Mendocino was a total drag.
           Route 128 was full of trailers, curves, etc etc. It was
           painful to be on 128 for nearly 3 hours. Overall, the pain of
           going to Mendocino was not forth the little pleasure you get
           being there. I hate Mendocino and I'm never going back.
           \_ sounds like you didn't take anyone's advice.
           \_ I grew up there.  It used to be a nice little hippie town, until
              it got taken over by parasites (aka tourists) and all of the
              stores that sold useful things were replaced by real estate
              offices selling vacation homes and Wilkes Bashford outlets.
              It sounds like you missed out on all the truly interesting
              stuff that's hiding there, so you might want to consider getting
              better advice and giving it another chance.  --lye
           \_ I advised you to go over the hill to someplace sunny, if you
              got sick of the fog. -ausman
2007/5/29-31 [Health/Disease/General] UID:46785 Activity:nil
5/29    Entomologist gives the low down on colony collapse disorder.
        http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mvanishingbees.htm
        \_ Beeist!  Your beeism is not funny or acceptable!
2007/5/15-17 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:46646 Activity:kinda low
5/15    "Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared
        to five other rich countries, according to a report released on
        Tuesday."
        Interestingly, Canada is rated second-worst, and Germany is rated
        as having the best system.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070515/us_nm/healthcare_usa_dc
        \_ You know, I've known this for years, but the average Joe on the
           street thinks that AMERIKA HAS DA BEST DAM HELTH KARE!  WE #1!!
           And every time I say something different they decry the evils
           of "socialized medicine".
           \_ The average PhD is a left leaning socialism, and in many cases
              a closest communist. Why is that the case, Peter?
              \_ Better education?  Though communism is a failed experiment:
                 I don't know anyone who is really a communist, even a
                 closet one, not even close.  But plenty of leftists.
                 Aren't you upset by the erosion of the middle class,
                 decreasing access to health care as many Americans
                 are priced out of the market, concentration of wealth
                 and power into corporate hands, devaluation of labor
                 in comparison to capital?  These are 3rd-worldization
                 trends.  And yes, I get your point on me overgeneralizing
                 based on a few samples of the "Average Joe"--valid point,
                 but America *is* pretty hostile to the idea of socialized
                 medicine--even though it's been shown to be a superior
                 solution when implemented well.  Whether US is capable
                 of a good implementation of socialized medicine is
                 another debate.  --PeterM
                 \_ I find it very telling that they're against it if you
                    call it "socialized medicine" in a poll question, but
                    for it by 2 to 1 if you describe it differently.
                    \_ What's a better term?  "Government health care"?
                       "Government health insurance"?  "Universal health
                       care financed by tax revenue"?  When talking to
                       people I usually use "universal health care" and
                       mention the Governator actually tackling that.
                 \_ http://www.overcomingbias.com/medicine/index.html
                    Search for "RAND Health Insurance Experiment".  I am not
                    touching your 'socialized medicine is the better solution
                    if implemented well' claim, but this is a good read on
                    a related topic. -- ilyas
                    \_ I don't think that study shows what you think it shows.
2007/4/25-29 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:46450 Activity:nil
4/25    Why the media sucks:
        http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html (Scroll down to april 24th entry)
        \_ Great timing, especially as the Dow breaks 13,000.
        \_ Huh?  I can't see anything earlier than April 10th.
           \_ April 24th is after April 10th
2007/4/21-25 [Health/Disease/General] UID:46407 Activity:nil
4/21    NASA employee gets mediocre performance review, buys legal gun,
        shoots co-worker.  Just to make the point.
        \_ That guns don't kill people, people do?
           \_ Cancer doesn't kill people, cancer cells do!
           \_ Wars don't kill people.
2007/4/11-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:46258 Activity:nil
4/10    Adult stem-cell therapy may cure Type I Diabetes
   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1637528.ece
2007/3/30-4/3 [Health/Disease/General] UID:46159 Activity:nil
3/30    Wow, crazy stalker impersonates dying blogger
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261916,00.html
        \_ This is HORRIBLE. Only a Libural would do something like this.
2007/3/13-16 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:45958 Activity:nil
3/13    Want to get your woman on the pill? Show her CNN's link:
        http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/03/13/healthmag.pill/index.html
        \_ About #2: Low-dose pills are actually better than high-dose pills
           in preventing ovarian cancer:
           http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070309/hl_nm/ovarian_cancer_dc
           About #9: My wife's dentist told her that antibiotics also
           decreases the effectiveness of the pill.
2007/2/28-3/2 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45840 Activity:moderate
2/28    Quick quiz:  Which kills more Americans?
        A) Insurgents in Iraq attacking US soldiers
        B) Bungee jumping
        C) Bees
        D) STDs
        E) African-Americans committing murder
        F) Obesity
            \_ It's not much of a stretch to include this under automobile
               related deaths.
        G) Trolls
 ++++++ H) Illegal aliens in the US committing murder ++++++
        I) Space aliens
        J) Cthulhu
        K) Spontaneous Human Combustion
        L) Automobile Accidents
        M) Smoking
        N) Burning
        O) Cancer
        P) Old Age
        Q) Living
********R) My Ginormous Herpes Infested Penis***********************************
        S) Bar fights and the subsequent shootouts.
        T) Abortion
        U) Space Monkeys
        V) Squirrels
        X) Mind numbing Boredom
        \_ The answers: (2004)  (of 2.4M US deaths)
                1)  Heart disease               652k
                2)  Cancer                      553k
                3)  Strokes                     150k
                4)  Lung disease                122k
                5)  Accidents                   112k
                6)  Diabetes                     73k
                7)  Alzheimers                   66k
                8)  Flu + Pneumonia              60k
                9)  Kidney disease               42k
               10)  Septicemia                   33k
           \_ How dare you bring facts to the MOTD!!??
        \_ Our laws governing automotive safety are as every bit as
           retarded as our foreign policy in the Middle East. Both
           need our attention and some solution. What makes Iraq
           particularly important is that it's putting an enormous
           strain on our resources (economically and militarily).
        \_ You're right, if we moved every single soldier from Iraq,
           Japan, Korea, Germany and Cuba to the Mexican border,
           we might stop all illegal immigration.  Kill.
           \_ That wasn't something I was suggesting. Try again. -op
              \_ It's about a sensical as your quiz. -!pp
                 \_ Or not. -op
                    \_ Precisely: your quiz was nonsense. -pp
        \_ Hey!  Thanks to the asshole who chnaged my post. choice B) is
           supposed to be Illegal Aliens committing murder.
        \_ I like how when lefties here don't like facts, they hide them.
           \_ I don't like the fact that Cancer kills people???
2007/2/27-3/1 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45827 Activity:nil
2/25    Alternative theory on mass extinctions of mega fauna in North America:
        http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0004839D-C6AC-1CDA-B4A8809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=4
        \_ I'm having trouble getting the pages.  We exterminated native
           americans in large part because of disease.  Is it fair to say
           this article says that we wiped out megafauna by introducing
           disease, too?
           \_ If by "we" you mean humans from Asia 11k years ago, yes.
2007/2/23-27 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45806 Activity:moderate
2/23    Do women with gigantic tits get breast cancer more often
        than ones without?
        \_ http://i19.tinypic.com/30c8sx1.jpg does not have cancer.
           \_ That's Amanda Wenk, right?
        \_ the fat stores more of the cancer causing agents
           more fat.. the more you can store
        \_ I have read so.
           \- It would make sense if the chance for any given cell to become
              cancerous were fixed. Bigger breasts => more cells => greater
              chance they get cancer.
                     \- i thought fat people didnt have more fat cells
                        but larger fat cells. BTW, a really quite good book
                        is "Why Zebras dont get Ulcers". --psb
              \_ Not necessarily.  I doubt cancer happens randomly with an
                 equal chance per cell.  It is much more related to heredity
                 and environment.  I would expect a woman with small breasts
                 who works at a radioactive biotoxin waste dump who had both
                 grandmothers, her mother, 3 aunts and 2 sisters die of
                 cancer to also get cancer while the OP's "gigantic tits"
                 woman who has no family history and lives in a clean
                 environment to likely never get cancer.  My example is
                 extreme of course but just trying to make the point that
                 cancer is a disease with real causes, not a random event.
                 \_ Still, averaged over the entire population, it may well
                    reduce to, "more breast cells, higher chance of breast
                    cancer."  For example, if your small breasted woman has a
                    large breasted sister who worked at the same dump, the
                    sister may have a higher chance.
                    \_ I would expect both to get it at approx the same time.
                       Another thing to think about: women who have had lumps
                       removed will often get breast cancer again (and again)
                       until the entire breast is removed.  Yet the cancer
                       is often only in one breast.  So after a first lump
                       removal you should have a higher chance in the other
                       breast but because of the environment (previous cancer
                       cells already in the first breast), that breast is
                       much more likely to grow more cancer.
                       \_ When I travel on an airplane I bring a bomb, because
                          it is *really* unlikely there will be two bombs on
                          the plane!
                          \_ Cute, but false analogy.
              \_ That can't be real.
        [... snip ...]
2007/2/20-23 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Sleeping] UID:45778 Activity:nil
2/20    TV is literally a health risk
        http://physorg.com/news91104374.html
2007/2/14-17 [Health/Disease/General, ERROR, uid:45741, category id '18005#12.0059' has no name! , ] UID:45741 Activity:high
2/14    A few days ago there was a brief discussion about socialized health
        care.  Walter Williams has a column today that addresses existing
        problems of Canada and UK health care.  -emarkp
        http://csua.org/u/i1p
        \_ The Canadian statistics there are interesting.  They give numbers
           like "the median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.3 weeks,
           but in Prince Edward Island, it's 9 weeks".  PEI is the smallest
           and poorest province in Canada, though, so that's not really
           surprising.  All the above-the-median examples they give are from
           the small, poor provinces -- this suggests that wait times in the
           major provinces (Ontario, Quebec, BC) are significantly lower than
           the numbers in the article, which fits with what my friends and
           relatives have experienced.  --mconst
           \_ Wrong--not "significantly lower" than the median.  A little
              googling turned up the publication:
              http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=863
              "Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait
              for computed tomography (4.0 weeks)" -emarkp
           \_ Oh, and here's the Observer article from 2002:
              http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,,661090,00.html
              "The number waiting a dangerously long time has doubled in two
              years, says a devastating official study obtained by The
              Observer." -emarkp
        \_ BORRRRRING
           \_ Not necessarily.  If the population on PEI and other poor regions
              is low than their numbers won't have a dramatic impact on the
              average across the country.  I don't have numbers for these
              places and honestly don't care enough to look them up but your
              basic logic is flawed.
        \_ I'd rather wait 9 weeks for a govt paid CT scan than 2 days for
           one that costs $15,000 out of pocket.
           \_ What if your condition becomes terminal in that 9 weeks?
              \_ There's no question that there's a trade off.  But in the
                 end I believe that more people would benefit from the service
                 who don't have healthcare than those who would suffer because
                 of wait times.
                 \_ So, it seems like the obvious solution here would be to
                    allow people to pay for fast service if they wish. (I
                    haven't read the article yet.) -jrleek
                    \_ Which is explicitly disallowed, at least in Canada.
                       -emarkp
        \_ There is a lot of room for debate on whether we should move to
           socialized medicine. However, I find http://TownHall.com to be distress-
           ingly partisan. Thank you for the article; please let us know if a
           more reliable source has something to say. --erikred
           \_ You attack the messenger because you don't like the message?
              How about we examine the message itself.  Is there a flaw in
              their data or reporting?
           \_ http://TownHall.com is a collection for opinions on the right.  If you
              reject a source of debate that you don't like, how can you have a
              debate?  Williams is an economist and from reading his columns, I
              think he's clearly libertarian (in philosophy if not in party
              registration).  I'm perfectly happy reading opinions from the
              left on (say) http://moveon.org, etc. and opinions from the right on a
              different site.  Why do you object to that? -emarkp
        \_ Of course, anytime you ration the use of something, you are going
           to cause a wait for it. In the US, we just ration by ability to
           pay, in Canada they do it by the severity of your problem. People
           die all the time in the US because they can't afford treatment,
           and Dr. Williams is being disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
           \_ Ah, but the difference is that when people bid up the cost of
              something, there is financial incentive to bring more players
              into the market.  The US system, while deeply flawed, does allow
              government (or charities) to subsidize the cost of care for
              people who can't afford it, and those who can afford it can get
              it by paying cash. -emarkp
              \_ Where do the blood sucking parasites, I mean, insurance
                 companies fit into this equation?
                 \_ Insurance simply spreads risk.  We pay them to manage risk
                    for us.  However, the current insurance/medical regime is
                    the problem with the system.  To some extent we *do* have
                    socialized care, since medical essentially determines
                    reimbursment amounts, and mandates care at emergency rooms.
                    -emarkp
                    \_ Tell me again how "no one dies" due to lack of
                       medical care in America:
                       http://www.csua.org/u/i26
                       But yes, in many ways we have both the worst of
                       socialism and the worst of capitalism all rolled up
                       in our terrible medical delivery system.
                       \_ I never said it in the first place. Can't you read?
                          -emarkp
                         \_ "I challenge anyone to show me people dying on
                             the streets because they don't have health
                             insurance." So you didn't say it, but your
                             source did.
2007/2/7 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45678 Activity:nil
2/7     The air is cold
2007/1/7-16 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Health/Disease/General] UID:45536 Activity:nil
1/12    Crazy Canadians object to teaching Yoga in schools:
        http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/01/09/bc-yoga.html
        \_ Meh, I like yoga.  The more active styles are really hard (and fun)
           -jrleek
           \_ Stop doing Yoga. You are a bad Mormon.
2006/12/26-30 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45496 Activity:high
12/26   What's the difference between "infectious" and "contagious" when
        talking about diseases?  Thanks.
        \_ contagious is via the air
        \_ This seems to be pretty much a distinction without a difference.
           Some people try to call things you can catch by proximity
           "contagious", so while both are infectious, rhinovirus would be
           contagious, HIV would not.  But I don't know of a standard,
           widespread distinction.
           Here's another possible distinction:  Infectious means a disease
           caused by a micro-organism. Contagious means an infected person
           can transmit an infectious disease to another person
        \- i am not an expert in this, but my understanding is: contagious ->
           you can get it from another person [so this is probably what you
           are thinking both mean], but infectious means it is caused by an
           "infectious agent" ... e.g. if you cut yourself and get dirt in the
           wound and get a strep-caused problem, you have an infection but
           it wasnt contagious. so infectious is from "what" causes the
           disease. contagious is focused on the "how" the transmission
           occurs. what i am not sure about is what parameters apply to
           contagious, e.g. does it have to be same species, does it just
           include proximity or contact ... presumably something like
           getting a prion disease from eating mad cow beef isnt considered
           contagious ... since you are getting it via the medium of food.
           same for getting infectious malaria from a mosquito bite.
           now if somebody can explain the difference between iatrogenic
           and nosocomial, i'd be delighted.
        \- In practice they can be used sloppily but in "theory",
           contagiousness is a QUALITATIVE MEASURE of how easy it is
           to CATCH from another person [animal etc], and "infectious"
           gets at whether the cause of the disease is an INFECTIOUS
           gets at whether the CAUSE of the disease is an INFECTIOUS
           AGENT [bacteria, virus etc, as opposed to structural
           defect, toxin, chemical, radiation etc]. So it is reasonable
           to say "airborne influenza is MORE CONTAGIOUS than ebola"
           and to say "ebola is an infectious disease while osteoperosis
           is not" [pace, some h pylori type discovery].
           can somebody explain the difference between NOSOCOMIAL and
           IATROGENIC. ok tnx.
           IATROGENIC. ok tnx. --psb
            \_ o.k. I probably won't do as good a job as the above, and
               i'm no expert, but my understanding is that NOSOCOMIAL is
`              particularly in regard to maledies resulting from being
               in a hospital, where as IATROGENIC is used less
               specifically to describe any treatment-caused ailment.
               So that MRSA (resistant staff) is most likely to be
               referred to as nosocomial, whereas my fucked up shoulder,
               being directly attributed to the surgery, as opposed to
               the hospital per-se, would be more likely to be called
               iatrogenic.
               iatrogenic. -crebbs
               \- oh fair enough ... that seems like a meaningful
                  distinction. one is GEOGRAPHIC and one is SIDE-EFFCTTING.
                  so if i take my wife to the doctor and i get ill while
                  sitting int he waiting room, that is NOSOCOMIAL but not
                  sitting in the waiting room, that is NOSOCOMIAL but not
                  IATROGENIC. meanwhile, if i get an infection from self-
                  injections of insulin, that may be IATROGENIC. --psb
                  \_yep.  (assuming, the injections were prescribed, if
                    not I don't think it counts, unless perhaps you
                    consider yourself a Doctor of some kind :) -crebbs
2006/12/12-17 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:45439 Activity:nil
12/12   So what are DeBeers and Tiffany's gonna do to debunk the
        untrue story of Blood Diamonds?
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/12/diamonds.koinange/index.html
        \_ They will bombard the media with ads that claim that their
           diamonds are clean. Voila! They've cleared up all misconceptions
           AND increased their visibility.
        \_ Tiffany, conflict-free since 2002
           http://csua.org/u/hos (cbsnews.com)
2006/11/3-4 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Eyes] UID:45139 Activity:nil
11/3    After tech jobs, outsourcing now infests health care.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061102/ap_on_he_me/outsourcing_health
        \_ Health care was destroyed the day the first HMO was born.
2006/11/3-4 [Health/Disease/General] UID:45127 Activity:nil
11/3    Cancer Alicia addicted to lollipops
        http://tinyurl.com/ybwlkr - danh
2006/10/30-31 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:45035 Activity:nil
10/30   Sheldon Brown is dying :( It's a dark dark day:
        http://sheldonbrown.org/journal/health.html
        \_ Cheer up, so is Fidel Castro!
2006/10/24-26 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44950 Activity:nil
10/24   Thanks illegal immigrants!  I was missing Tuberculosis.  Especially the
        drug-resistant strains.
        http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52555
        \- "The states with the highest numbers of multi-drug
           resistant cases in the last decade were New York,
           California,  Texas and Florida, according to the
           CDC -- states with the highest populations of new
           immigrants." ... gee, by coincidence, those 4 stats
           immigrants." ... gee, by coincidence, those 4 states
           also have the most Americans! ... http://csua.org/u/hak
           \_ Nevertheless, it is a fact that illegals bring
              this disease into the country.
              \- What about American fastfood causingg obesity-related
                 problems in China, France etc?. What about Coca Cola
                 casuingMr Tooth Decay to arrive?
                 \_ What about them?  Those are lifestyle diseases,
                    not contageous killers of millions who never made
                    the choice to eat crappy food.
                 \_ Yeah and so?  You can't tell the difference between
                    someone choosing to drink Tooth Rot(c) and someone
                    getting resistent staph by walking into a hospital for
                    something else?
2006/10/23-24 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44935 Activity:low
10/23   The good news is that stem cells have cured a Parkinson's-like disease
        in rats.  The bad news is they also got brain cancer.
        http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061016/full/061016-16.html
        \_ sounds like non-malingnant tumors, not cancer.  (Still.) -tom
           \_ Giant lump growing in my brain.  Not good.  I don't care if it
              is malignant or not after it starts pressing against my
              cerebral cortex.
              \_ Yeah, that would suck.  You might even eventually lose motor
                 control... oh... wait...
                 \_ As much as parkinson's would suck, crushing your CT would
                    be worse.
           \_ Why did someone delete all the followups?
              \_ Why do you hate non-malignant tumors?
                 \_ I love non-maglignant tumors.  Why do you hate
                    non-malignant-tumor lovers?
2006/10/17-18 [Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:44846 Activity:high
10/17   Some iPods shipped w/ a Windows Virus:
        http://www.apple.com/support/windowsvirus
        \- why dont more viruses delete massive amounts of data?
           it seems like if the virus writers wanted to hurt msft
           that what they should do in addition to spreading.
           it seems like viruses are still in the realm of annoying
           rather than fatal. is there some techical reason they
           cant do more permanent damage? [i understand thaty cant
           instantly kill the host, as that will greatly reduce the
           spread rate].
           \_ one day they will take your data and you'll have
              to pay Russians to get it back.
           \_ Probably because most of these are all about tagging to get
              their name out there in the el8 hax0r community to announce
              their m@d sk1llz than really about anything truly malicious.
              We have spyware for that now.
         \_ sort of like the reason real viruses aren't more lethal .. they
            kill off the host and can't spread any more.
              \- yes i understand that is often the case but you would think
                 there would be at least a few that did massive damage. or
                 somebody would tweak the original to do a if p < .05 then
                 rm -rf /. especially when you consider how many people dont
                 like msft. making bill gates = borg tshirts doesnt hurt msft
                 but fear and trembling on the part of people running windows
                 might.
                 \_ There have been viruses which delete files; they don't
                    propagate very well, because IT folks are more aggressive
                    about finding and cleaning them.  -tom
                    \_ IT folks don't find them until users complain, while
                       cleaning them at most places usually involves
                       Symantec's Ghost.  Nuke it from orbit.  It's the
                       only way to be sure.
           \_ The best answer I've heard to this question is that the
              purpose is not to destroy the host or to delete info, but
              to gain remote access to the host and use its bandwidth
              either for downloading software or for use in ddos attacks.
              Deleteing data would give away the covert nature of the
              infection and would make is more likely that the virus
              would be removed before the author could make use of the
              infected host.
              \- i am not expressing surprise that most viruses arent
                 more destructive but that so few are. do you know of
                 anybody who lost everything that was not backed up
                 after a virus infection? i dont think most viruses
                 today give somedy a "covert channel" to control the
                 host or really do much purposeful things other than
                 propagage themselves [there are some that do ddoses,
                 but that is still the minority] ... again, look on
                 slashdot or in other parts of dweebworld and there are
                 so many people who hate msft. there are also so many
                 viruses. i'm ust surprised these two group have not
                 intersected to produce a really destructive virus ...
                 most of these viruses punish some comobination of
                 the owner of the computer, possible their IT slaves,
                 if in some institution with an IT staff ... but dont really
                 punish msft. of course it is possible this is common
                 among people running bootlegged OSes which are not managed
                 by "it staff" [say te random asian windoes pirate user]
                 but we dont hear about it much.
                 \_ Then I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but you may not know
                    much about viruses.  Botnets for hire (spam, DDoS for
                    blackmail, mainly) are a pretty big "industry", all
                    things considered.  Very few skilled virus authors are
                    your prototypical 13 year old "I H8 TEH M1CROSUX"
                    slashdot bandwagon dweeb nowadays.  Most viruses/trojans
                    have a fairly pragmatic purpose, and while in a lot of
                    cases it's just to propagate and make a point (whee look
                    at me!  I'm cool!) those, with a few notable exceptions,
                    tend to be among the large mass of badly written, easily
                    caught ones.  There's some really technically interesting
                    stuff floating around that does stuff like use Windows ADS
                    for payload storage, much of which spreads fairly
                    discreetly and doesn't do exactly the kind of destructive
                    shit that might cause grandma to install Symantec.  -John
                    \- this may be true now, but viruses have quite a long
                       history and these functional one are a relatively
                       recent phenomena ... certainly viruses changed in
                       the era of permanently and by default networked
                       windows boxes. also i also [and i could be wrong
                       here] modifying a virus is probably much simpler
                       than writing from scratch so the number of people willing
                       and able to "mutate" one into an rm-rf virus seems
                       fairly large. so do you know of a single
                       person who had his computer "deleted" by a virus?
                       [i mean deliberate erasure or corruption of disk ...
                       not accidentally hosing things trying to remove it].
                       again my whole point is my suprise about threasholds.
                       like there have been DDOSes against msft, but I'm
                       surprised there have not been more or more clever
                       anti-msft DDOSes.
                       \_ Because people with real technical skills have better
                          things to do than hate microsoft much less write
                          malicious code to damage windows machines.
                       \_ Yes, I know of quite a few who have had significant
                          amounts of data wiped by fairly primitive viruses
                          as a big fat bronx cheer for failing to take even
                          basic security measures.  And what the above poster
                          said.  There are extremely skilled and vicious DDoS
                          attacks (e.g. against gambling sites during large
                          sports events for blackmail purposes) using botnets
                          for hire.  There's no money to be made out of hitting
                          MSFT.  -John
2006/10/10-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44749 Activity:moderate
10/10   Believe it or not... I just came down with a flu. I realize it's a
        bit [early] in the season but it's actually happening around me.
        Wash your hands and be careful!
        \_ Me 2. spent the last week out of it. no fun.
        \_ I've had the flu since Sat., I guess that it is better to get
           it over w/ early.
        \_ I had one a month ago.
        \_ I was gonna get a flu shot again this year. But then I remembered
           I had one last year and got a flu anyway. So screw that. They
           are offered at work though. How many of you get those?
           \_ I got the flu shot last year, and I got waylaid by a non-flu
              cold anyway. Ah, well, at least it wasn't the flu.
           \_ EFI used to provide shots for free to employees, and for $10 to
              family members.
        \_ I don't believe you.  Please provide evidence to back up your wild
           claims.
2006/9/22-25 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44503 Activity:nil
9/22    There was a girl I dated at Cal that was also a bit of an anomoly
        because she was willing to date me.  The end.
        \_ Ditto.  Married her (my girl, not yours).
           \_ why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free?
              \_ what if you're lacktose intolerant?
              \_ The cow wanders into someone else's barn.
              \_ shuts the relatives up -pp
                 \_ ask them .. "Got Milk?"
              \_ "Well, son, why milk the cow when you've got a fridge
                 full of steaks?"
        \_ Apologies, the original is at http://csua.com/?entry=44500 but
           I just couldn't resist.  Penthouse letters lives.  -John
2006/9/22 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44500 Activity:nil
9/22    There was a girl I dated at Cal that was also a bit of an anomoly
        due to a mental illness. It's been a few years now (and I didn't
        date her for that long) so the details might have vanished with
        time, but in short this girl had a very small brain tumor.

        For me, it was a tumor sent from heaven though, because I'm a
        selfish bastard! This tumor was resting right next to the gland
        that controls the onset of puberty and also triggers the body
        when it thinks it's pregnant (pituitary gland maybe?). About
        a month before we had met, she was diagnosed with this tumor
        (non-cancerous), and it started to change her right around the
        time we got together.

        She was kind of a big and tall girl to begin with, so her bra
        read 38DD, but they didn't really *look* like DDs, you know? They
        were in proportion to the rest of her. Well, within the 4 months
        that we dated, she went from the 38DD to a 38G, which look friggin
        HUGE on anybody! Her doctor said that her tumor had pushed on the
        gland and made it communicate to the rest of her body that she was
        pregnant. She stopped having her period almost immediately after
        we met, and she had some gentle weight gain. Nothing that made
        her look bad remind you, she continued to fill out proporionally.

        At the point of this memory, she had been measured for an bought
        an F cup, but it hadn't really filled out yet. She was somewhere
        inbetween the DD and F sizes. Her nipples had also gotten pretty
        big and became incredibly sensetive. She hardly like me playing
        with them because they were so sensitive sometimes, but that's
        not to say I didn't get my fair share of breast play in with
        this goddess!

        Well, one night we're going at it, and since we both had been
        tested and she wasn't capable of menstruating, I was riding
        bareback! She was on top and had just climaxed and was like
        "my God, my boobs feel swollen!" She started to play with her
        nipples as I watched, and to my surprise, she starts milking
        herself and squirting it on my chest!

        My jaw must have been opened a mile wide, because she was like
        "What, I didn't tell you about this?" She was milking herself
        for a minute or so because she saw how much I loved it before she
        dismounted from me. There was a pretty sizable puddle of milk on
        my chest, and before I know it, she's there lapping at it. First,
        she did the cat thing, which was damn cute, but then she realized
        she had me well beyond the "cute" stage. Having that girl lap off
        her breast milk was the sexiest thing anyone has ever done for me!
2006/9/14-16 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44374 Activity:nil
9/15    You think terrorism is bad.  how about terrorism + bird flu!!
        I think it's game over:
        http://tinyurl.com/hxp9k
2006/8/22-24 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44105 Activity:nil
8/22    Data points for you guys. Appointment times and experience for
        ophtamologist (for eye disease):
        Kaiser Spring 2006:
          Appointment: You must go to a primary doctor first, or talk to
            a phone nurse who'll diagnose you. Wait time for a phone nurse
            for me took 65 minutes (just waiting on the phone).
          Wait period: 5 days before the nurse allows you to make an
            appointment and actually seeing the doc
          Waiting room: 45 minutes wait
          Kaiser pharmacy time: 45 minute wait
          Notes: You must go to a Kaiser hospital, and you must go to a
                 primary doc for referal. If it's an emergency visit, like
                 eye infection, you must talk to a Kaiser nurse for 15
                 minutes. Wait time to talk to a nurse has been
                 consistently 40-60 min. You must use the Kaiser pharmacy
        BlueShield Summer 2006:
          Appointment: You make the appointment directly, takes 5 min
          Wait period: 1 days before appointment and seeing the doc
          Waiting room: 45 minutes wait
          Pharmacy time: You pick your own. I picked Walgreens. Fast.
          Notes: You have a lot of flexibility. You can pick any BlueShield
                 network, which is pretty wide in California.
        BlueShield cost a little bit more, but it's totally worth it. I don't
        understand why people pick Kaiser, it totally sucks. I guess if you
        never plan to get sick, it's not a bad choice.
        \_ I have friends who use Kaiser and get great service, docs, etc.
           I have friends who get the horror story experience.  It really
           really varies.  A lot.
           \- it is my belief that some kaisers are conistently and
              significantly better/worse than others. in my experience
              oakland kaiser gets a lot more second and third stringers
              than say santa clara.
        \_ Aren't your Blue Shield data points dependent on the particular
        \_ Well aren't your Blue Shield data points dependent on the particular
           clinic you chose?
           \_ Exactly. With BlueShield PPO you have a choice, and you pick
              the right choice. With Kaiser, you have no choice. You either
              go to the primary Kaiser that is within 25 miles of your home,
              or 100 miles away from your home. Moral of the story: It's
              great when you have a choice.
        \_ Blue Cross and Blue Shield suck just as much incredible donkey
           ass as Kaiser, just a different donkey with different hair.
           The health insurance system is totally Fucked (tm).
              --subscriber to Premier Blue Cross PPO, the "best PPO they
                offer"
           \_ I have blue shield and is happy with my doctor.  would you
              like to elaborate?
2006/8/16-18 [Health/Disease/General] UID:44034 Activity:nil
8/16    Republicans will live longer than Democrats:
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/08/15/spending.to.death.ap
        \_ Nice trollbait, but the words "Republican" and "Democrat" do not
           appear in this article.
        \_ It's kind of like Bush in microcosm.  I guess Americans are much
           slower to get the message that their leadership blows.
        \_ It's like the estate tax, but the money ends up in the pockets
           of HMO CEOs.
2006/7/26-28 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43812 Activity:nil
7/26    http://csua.org/u/gjj (latimes.com)
        http://www.lobsterlib.com/canYouKill.html
        Hello Human Lobsters!
        \_ Btw, cutting out the brain would almost certainly do the job. Cf.
           sledgehammers and cows. Also, just because plants don't have the
           same nervous systems (or nervous systems at all) does not mean that
           they cannot/do not feel pain when culled to make your sprout salad.
           Take responsibility for your consumption: food = death.
           \_ That's why I only eat fruits and nuts which have already
              fallen from the tree or bush (fruitarian).
              \_ How many bacteria and viruses does your immune system kill
                 every hour?  Your murderer!
                 \_ Self defense!
              \_ According to this argument, you would be ethically fine to
                 eat roadkill. Just out of curiosity, do you know of a website
                 or other such that advocates this lifestyle? I'd love to read
                 more.
           \_ They'd eat us if they could.  I'm just staging a pre-emptive
              strike.  Mmh, lobster... -John
2006/7/24-27 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43773 Activity:nil
7/24    Is it just me or it seems like hard core bikers look as if they
        have cancer:
        http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/photo?slug=getty-cycling-tdf2006-landis_3_00_02_pm
        http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/photo?slug=getty-cycling-tdf2006-rasmussen_2_29_46_pm
2006/7/11-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43633 Activity:nil
7/11    "It is not really a reversal of policy ... Humane treatment has always
        been the standard, and that is something that they followed at
        Guantanamo." -Tony Snow (July 11, 2006)
        Can someone tell me why the first sentence is an out-an-out lie?
        \_ According to the FBI: "On a couple of occasions, I entered
           interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a
           foetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most
           times they had urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been
           left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air
           conditioning had been turned down so far ... that the barefooted
           detainee was shaking with cold.
           "On another occasion, the air-conditioning had been turned off,
           making the temperature in the unventilated room probably well over
           100 degrees ... The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor,
           with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally
           pulling his own hair out throughout the night.
           We also waterboard prisoners, which is pretty clearly not humane.
           \_ I believe the legal definition of "humane" is anything not
              leading to permanent organ failure and death, but they don't
              tell you that.
              \_ No, the White House has tried to claim that this is the
                 definition of "torture," but even that is BS. Various
                 courts have determined that waterboarding, sensory
                 deprivation, beating, etc are inhumane.
                 \_ "As you know, the term 'humanely' has no precise legal
                    definition." -Alberto Gonzales
                    http://balkin.blogspot.com/Gonzales.Kennedy.supp.pdf
                    (see question 15)
                    \_ Isn't this the same Gonzales that said the Geneva
                       Convention didn't apply to prisoners at Gitmo?
                       Why do you think he is the authority on anything?
                       \_ I'm agreeing with you.  My take on it is that humane
                          means nothing to our Attorney General, and therefore
                          "humane" is whatever is not torture, and as you
                          pointed out, torture is anything not leading to
                          organ failure / death.
2006/6/21-26 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:43446 Activity:nil
6/20    I'm thinking about getting health insurance for my 59 year old
        mother. I've heard that it costs over $300/month. What companies
        do you guys get for your parents and what do you actually
        recommend?
        \_ I can't help you too much, but beware - my mother who is a few years
           younger than yours pays over $650 a month for insurance.  She does
           have a few preexisting conditions though.  Is your mother healthy?
           Insurance costs for the elderly are pretty insane these days.
        \_ Move her to San Francisco:
           http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/14864194.htm
2006/6/14-19 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:43390 Activity:nil
6/14    Why do Canadians want girls?  I understand why Chinese want boys.
        http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-614babysex,0,6133219.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
        \_ `It's new. It's scary. We understand that.'  Wow.  Condecending
        \_ Boy kids are a pain in the ass.  Girl teenagers are a pain in
           in the ass.
        \_ Ok, so no one knows anything about Canadian culture and why they
           would prefer girls to such an extent they'd pay big $ for them? -op
           \_ This doesn't quite help but, it's an article on sex
              selective abortions in Canada, but doesn't mention a girl
              preference at all:
              http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=9faa3351-3db1-40d7-9e40-ccd59f4d3838&k=5557&p=1
           \_ Study contradicting original article's claim:
              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12290078&dopt=Citation
2006/5/30-6/3 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43231 Activity:nil
5/30    http://www.organicconsumers.org/rBGH/milkismilk20405.cfm
        This is from a link below. Now I understand why American women
        have bigger breasts than say, European women: "Eli Lilly, in
        its application for registration of rBGH, admitted that IGF-1
        blood levels of injected cows are increased up to ten-fold. IGF-1
        is resistant to pasteurization and digestion, and is readily
        absorbed from the small intestine... IGF-1 induces uncontrolled
        growth of normal human breast cells in tissue culture..."
        God bless hormones in our milk that make our women beautiful!
        On a more serious note, I'm wondering where I can buy milk
        milk without Monsanto's rBGH hormones? I'm a guy and I don't
        need bigger breasts. They're already pretty big for a guy.
        \_ Whole Foods definitely seels rGBH free milk. Probably Trader Joe's
        \_ Whole Foods definitely sells rGBH free milk. Probably Trader Joe's
           too.
           \_ TJ's has for a while (w/ the disclaimer that there's no way to
              actually test for it)  Apparently Safeway's default cheap-o milk
              says it's rBST free now!?  --dbushong
              \_ Almost all milk you buy in a store is rBST free.  But there
                 are a lot of milk products in most people's diet.  Ever eat
                 prepared foods?  Or cheepish cheese?
        \_ Sexist!
           \_ Cowist!
              \_
                 ______
                < hey! >
                 ------
                        \   ^__^
                         \  (oo)\_______
                            (__)\       )\/\
                                ||----w |
                                ||     ||
2006/5/30-6/2 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:43220 Activity:nil
5/29    My fitness trainer/nutritionist says I should try to eat all
        organic food from now on. He claims my American wife is huge
        because of lack of exercise (which we're addressing right
        now), and also because of all the excess growth hormones
        we take in from milk, cows, and chicken. He claims that
        Europeans are thinner because they exercise more (no dispute
        in that) and also they eat more organic food and meat from
        happy animals that exercise more and are injected with less
        hormones and antibiotics. He claims that unlike US meat,
        European meat aren't subject to carbon dioxidation and red
        dyes to make them look more appealing. He also claims that
        European cows are are injected with less antibiotics and
        hormones, so while they look smaller and thus less profitable
        to sell and more expensive to buy than the US cows, they're
        much healthier to eat. How much of what he says is real
        and/or bullshit? Are Americans really eating much more growth
        hormones, antibiotics, and other residual chemicals than
        the Europeans? Do extra hormones really make you unhealthy?
        \_ Um "organic" does not necessarily mean "better".  Your guy is
           full of shit.  The average European plate is smaller, food is more
           expensive, and public transportation is generally better (I didn't
           see that many fat people in New York.)  Pesticides and additives
           and what not don't have much to do with your fitness, as poster
           below correctly says.  Avoid corn starch, white flour, processed
           sugar, etc. etc. etc., whole books have been written on how to
           eat well.  A good rule I saw was that a portion of protein should
           be about the size of a deck of cards.  -John
        \_ He's right from a nutrition point of view. I'm not sure it
           matters from a trainer point of view. That is, it's not good
           for you to eat hormone-laced beef but by doing so, although you
           may be less healthy, you'll probably not weigh any more/less
           than a person who eats 100% organic beef (all else equal).
        \_ What is true is that Europe has been moving more and more towards
           not allowing really bad ways of factory farming animals, while
           in the USA the government keeps relaxing the rules unless some
           disaster happens (like mad cow).  We use 8 times as many anti-
           biotics for livestock as people in this country.
           \_ Yes, but our cow is bigger and more profitable. Case
              in point, look at the government endorsed Monsanto
              Corporation and how their products increased farmers'
              yields and saved farm families from going bankrupt.
              Case in point, most of our milk today is produced using
              rBGH, a synthetic hormone that has helped countless American
              girls blosom into full bodied women; European women on
              the other hand look unhealthily anorexic because they
              lack rBGH intake in their dairy products. Hormones +
              antibiotics=good profit + beautiful women. I guess you
              regulation-loving communists will never understand it.
           \- i think that is horseshit. many europeans eat smaller
              portion sizes [why a friend of mine immediately began
              gaining weight after moving back from london/amsterdam/paris
              back to SF. as an illustration compare an "italian pizza"
              with a usa pizza]. why are you approaching this in generic
              terms? are you interested in discussing nutrition and diet
              \- Your brain has been classified as: small. ok thx.
                 \_ Re: portion size in US vs Europe etc:
                    http://csua.org/u/g15
              or do you have a fitness goal. assuming the latter, dont
              worry about "the europeans" and just figure out what you
              should do exercise/dietwise to get there. i would start by
              tracking your food to see where your calorie/fat/protein
              \_ proper dieting with strict calorie intake and moderate
                 exercise are good. Lack of unnecessary growth hormones,
                 fat, and anti-biotics would be even better. rBGH,
                 a growth hormone banned for health reasons in every
                 industrialized country, is still used heavily in the U.S.
                 Monsanto's own data revealed that feeding IGF-1 (from
                 to rBGH) to adult rats for only two weeks significantly
                 increased body and liver weights, and bone length.
                 More critically, increased IGF-1 blood levels have been
                 incriminated as a major cause of cancer. IGF-1 induces
                 uncontrolled growth of normal human breast cells in tissue
                 culture, and has been incriminated in their transformation
                 to cancer cells.
                 http://www.organicconsumers.org/rBGH/milkismilk20405.cfm
              is coming from and in what quantity. for example, at some
              point i discovered i was ingesting maybe 1/3 of my calories
              from sugary-liquids [fruit juice, orange juice, coke etc].
              maybe you should ask your trainer/nutritionist what he/she
              thinks about fruitcake.
2006/5/20-25 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43127 Activity:nil
5/20    Are you tall and skinny and have long fingers? You may be at risk
        for having the Marfan Syndrome and may develop problems that
        cause you to age and die prematurely. Check out the symptoms
        to see if you have the Marfan Syndrome.
        \_ Why are you so worried about Marfan's all of a sudden? why not
           post a similar entry about other disease entities?
           \_ Because I think I have it though I haven't seen a doctor yet.
              I fit in the profile, AND I have very loose joints. In fact
              I've dislocated both of my shoulders and my joints hurt
              a lot especially my mouse finger and emacs pinkies. I am
              afraid of finding out that I actually do have Marfan, or
              maybe I'm just over-reacting, and in fact based on my
              past experience with the medical community and from what I've
              heard, I think they'll probably just ignore me and think that
              I'm just over-reacting. So, until I have serious problems,
              I think I'll just ignore my symptoms. BTW, erikred, what
              exactly is the connective tissue disorder?        -op
              \_ OP, please email me. I would happy to discuss this further.
                 --erikred
        \_ I was clinically diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome back in '84.
           Recent genetic testing (and a refinement of the clinical
           criteria needed to make a clinical diagnosis) reveals that I do not,
           in fact, have Marfan Syndrome. I may have some sort of connective
           tissue disorder, but it's not Marfan Syndrome. My point? Get a
           genetic test. --erikred
                \_ How tall are you, if you don't mind me asking? -pp
                   \_ Seven feet.
2006/5/10 [Health/Disease/General] UID:43012 Activity:nil
5/10    The Bush Administration's War on the Laboratory
        "I never thought that now, in the twenty-first century, we could have
        a debate about what to do with a vaccine that prevents cancer"
        http://www.wesjones.com/specter2.htm
        \_ This raises a huge question: HPV and cervical cancer aside, would
           the Abstinence-Only people object to vaccines for any STD? How about
           mononucleosis?
           \_ People who get vaccinated against STDs will go out and have
              unlimited amounts of sex.  At least I think that's how their pea
              sized brains see it.
           \_ Of course they would.  What's the ratio of people who are pro-
              abstinence-only for reasonable, scientific, health-related reasons
              to people who are _really_ behind it for religious reasons?
              \_ Zero.  -tom
2006/5/10-12 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:43001 Activity:nil
5/10    How a regular person can give Dubya good advice (on Medicare Part D)
        http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060509-5.html
        Look for the first "Applause" line in response to a questioner.
2006/4/4 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:42658 Activity:kinda low
4/4     http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060403/sc_space/churchgoerslivelonger
        Church Goers Live Longer. Does that mean our Mormon friends
        on motd will probably post long after while the liberals die
        from AIDS, meth, and other illegal substance?
        \_ It's moot.  The religious fundamentalists will out-breed the
           liberals.
           \_ But we out recruit the fundies.
              \_ From their children?
        \_ But they live that longer life in a state of delusion....  W/o
           the religious vote, we would not have had the disaster that has
           been the Bush administration.  But I guess it's not surprising that
           the religious people voted for a big hypocrite like themselves.
           \_ Yeah, the kettle thinks you're black too.
        \_ Doctor: You have six months to live.
           Patient: What can I do?
           Doctor: Well... you could give up sex, booze and cigars.
           Patient: Would I live longer then?
           Doctor: No, but it will seem longer...
           \_ If they're having all those kids it didn't come from giving
              up sex....
2006/4/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Health/Disease/General] UID:42656 Activity:moderate
4/4     "The [black] kids here have no hope. They have nothing to aspire to
         other that being a rapper or an athlete, and that's a million-to-one
         shot. In my neighborhood the only people recruiting are the gangs."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060404/od_nm/crime_newjersey_dc
          \_ http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/dead-kennedys/38151.html
             "Empty plastic
             Culture slum suburbia
             Is a war zone now
             Sprouting the kinds of gangs
             We thought we'd left behind
             This could be anywhere
             This could be everywhere"
             \_ Everything I know came from a lyrics site on the net, too.
         \_ after centuries of oppression, what do you expect?
            "here is your freedom from slavery, not get the fuck out
            "here is your freedom from slavery, now get the fuck out
             of here"
            \_ Yeah, right.
               \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
                   We gained so much valuable medical information from
                   these experiments.
                   And don't forget all blacks love that guy Jim Crow!!
        \_ And up above you can see anonymous people arguing like idiots! -dans
           \_ why are you not hanging out with your hot gf instead of
              nuking the motd?
              \_ UCSC is back in session.  She has school, I have work to do
                 for clients. -dans
                 \_  You work for a think tank that studies the crazy political
                     positions of computer industry professionals?  That's cool.
                     Are they hiring?
                     positions of computer industry professionals?  That's
                     cool. Are they hiring?
                     \_ Get in line, buddy!  I've been here way longer than
                        you!  There's a seniority system in place.
        \_ I totally agree that black kids have no hope. I mean until ROTJ
           black kids could hope to become a Dark Lord of the Sith w/
           unrivaled force powers and other 1337 mad skillz, but then Lucas
           screws it all up by revealing that the badest black man in the
           history of the universe was really a pastey old white geezer. That
           is the real crime. Now all black kids have to hope for is to become
           Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Sec. of State or a Justice of the
           Supreme Court. Not one lightsaber amongst them, talk about a total
           let down. -stmg
           \_ But they can be like Lando Calrissian and drink Colt 45!
              \_ Lando sold out to a pastey old white guy. =(
              \_ "I'm altering our deal. Pray I don't alter it any futher."
           \_ Uh, so until then you thought Luke might be part black?
              \_ "You don't know the power of the Dark Side."
                 Besides in a galaxy, far far awy, Black + White could
                 equal whiny, long haired blond luser. -stmg
2006/4/3-4 [Health/Women, Health/Disease/General] UID:42638 Activity:nil
4/3     Wow, new bladders grown from the cells of patients:
        http://tinyurl.com/rmldp
        \_ Not quite as cool as it at first sounds: the bladder isn't really an
           organ, just a pouch made of a cells of a certain type.  They get the
           shape to make it a pouch by growing the (largely undifferentiated)
           cells on a mold.  Still cool though.
                \_ Something similar was done to grow someone a new jaw.  It's
                   definitely movement in the right direction.
                   definitely movement in the right direction.  It's not super
                   simple though, the article mentions extracting "muscle and
                   bladder" cells, so they might also be growing a valve (I
                   forget what the name of that muscle is) too.
                   \_ urethral sphincter?  detrusor?
                        \_ "Although you normally make the choice when to
                            urinate, once you decide to do so the nervous
                            system takes over and the process becomes
                            automatic. The detrusor contracts and the
                            sphincters relax to allow urine to flow. When
                            the bladder is empty, the sphincters contract
                            and the detrusor relaxes."
2006/4/3-4 [Health/Disease/General] UID:42619 Activity:nil
4/2     http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060401/sc_space/lonelinesskillsstudyshows
        "Social trends in the United States suggest a recipe for greater
         loneliness and thus higher blood pressure and risk of heart disease.
         The population is aging and more people move around and live alone
         than ever, contributing to greater separation from caring friends
         and family."
        Like I said, I just don't find endless suburb expansion to be
        all that good for the society.
        \_ Uhm, no. People moving out into suburbs has little or nothing to
           do with the social trend of more and more people living alone.
           The social trend of people living alone has a lot more to do with
           the "me" culture that permeates modern mainstream American society
           (especially amongst Caucasians and assimilated ethnics).
           Traditionally people used to live with their families, it was
           not unusual for individuals to live with their parents and
           grandparents. The rise of industrialism in the 20th century,
           the advent of modernity and individualism has slowly but surely
           eroded this traditional familial structure. It was once expected
           that one would take care of one's parents in old age. Nowadays
           this is become rarer and rarer. Add in the fact that people are
           living longer than ever beffore and divorces are more common
           than marriages which last results in a very large group of
           lonely people. So, essentially this is the price you pay in
           forgoing the "traditional" concept of family. I suspect that
           in the future newer concepts of what is "family" will have to
           be created and that a backlash (actually this has already occurred
           with the whole neo-con/neo-religous right movement of the past
           decade) against the erosion of the traditional family unit will
           occur. So, agian, no, your overtly simplistic analysis of a complex
           socio-economic problem is not right. Suburbs do not automatically
           equate to lonely people.
           \_ I disagree.  The "me" culture may contribute to the problem,
              but I think it's due to a higher rate of changing social
              expectations.  A few centuries back, you could have three
              generations living in one house and everyone was on more
              or less the same page in terms in terms of what was socially
              acceptable.  Now, I think many peoples' expectations of
              what's "acceptable" have diverged noticeably from their
              parents' views, and certainly from their grandparents'.
              Noticable exceptions to this seem to be in extremely
              conservative (or liberal!) households, in which social values
              are shared across generations. -bishop
        \_ how do you balance people's material need for "territory" with
           people's need for each other?
           \_ You introduce a religion, and turn them into bald
              reproductionless vegetarian hermits. Wait it's call Bhuddism,
              Monks, and Monestary.

              \_ Bhuddism, Monks, and Monestary?  Is that like Settlers of
                 Catan?  Sounds fun....
           \_ just keep packing em in like rats.  we know from rat studies that
              the more over crowded rats are the more psychotic they behave
              which is exactly what we want in human soci-- oh wait.
2006/3/31-4/1 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men, Health/Sleeping] UID:42594 Activity:nil
3/31    http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/2006-02-08/news/feature_full.html
        I know this is a bit late but I'm wondering if you guys can
        help us find Jerry Tang. Thanks.
        \_ We care why?
        \_ Sorry.  All my time is spent looking for poontang.
2006/3/30-31 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:42536 Activity:nil
3/29    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189547,00.html
        (second story) Spend your life inside Walmart!
2006/3/29-31 [Health/Disease/General] UID:42518 Activity:nil
3/29    Is it better to open all the windows and breath fresh air but
        sleep at chilling 50F or close all the windows and live comfortably
        with stale air at 65F? I hear pros and cons from both sides. My
        German friends think fresh air and cold temperature build
        strength. On the other hand cold weather increases the chance
        of flu and cold transmission, no?
        \_ Stale air means more sharing between people, which increases the
           chance of virus transmission.  Strike a balance between temperature
           and staleness and go on with your life.
        \_ Air out your house during the day and close the windows at night.
           Also, as above poster suggests, stop sleeping with sick people.
        \_ Agree with the previous poster. Open the window during the
           day to get some air exchange, and close it at night. It
           also depends on where you live. If you live close to a busy
           street, you might want to open your window more
           selectively, say avoid commute hours. If you are rich and
           live in the hills, then you can probably open it anytime
           you want. What you don't want, is to have the same air
           circulate over and over again during the entire winter. You
           may think this is common sense but I've been to houses (in
           the bay area non less) where the air quality is just bad
           and all I want to do is to open the window.
        \_ ZE COLD AIR MAKES US STRONG FOR ZE RUSSIAN WINTER.  -John
2006/3/17-20 [Health/Disease/General] UID:42283 Activity:nil
3/17    williamc. My uncle's a smoker and he does NOT have lung cancer. I also
        know quite a few smokers who have been smoking for over 20 years and
        don't have lung cancer. Those that have lung cancer probably got
        it from something else. Therefore, there's no correlation between
        smoking and lung cancer. Thanks for clarifying this, I'll tell my
        uncle about this, he'll be really happy to hear it. Smoke on!
        \_ I think you're missing the point: *williamc* never got lung cancer,
           but if he was a smoker *then* there'd be no correlation whatsoever.
           Glad to see that you're catching on, though.
           \_ read "Thank You For Smoking" and catch the movie one day.
2006/3/15-17 [Health/Dental, Health/Disease/General] UID:42253 Activity:low
3/15    Most people in America - rich, poor, young, old - receive mediocre
        medical care.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_he_me/mediocre_health_care
        \_ Hmm, I haven't read the article, but this brings to mind a
           discussion I had with my grandmother regarding the pros and cons of
           universal health care.  The outcome was basically that socialized
           medicine raises the minimum care level for everyone, but
           potentially lowers the maximum care level for those who have the
           means and desire to pay for better care. -dans
           \_ In other news, fire is hot, water is wet, all babies must eat,
              'bad' means 'good' when teenagers or dans say it.
              \_ What the fuck are you talking about? -dans
                 \_ I think the guy was saying he or she was annoyed by
                    obviousness + wordiness.
                    \_ Most Americans/motd readers are not familiar with
                       foreign health care systems.  For example, the only
                       option for healthcare in the UK is the National Health
                       Service.  Thus, if a Briton wants healthcare services
                       that the NHS is unwilling or unable to provide, he must
                       seek them outside of the UK.  This option is only
                       viable for the super-wealthy.  Granted, I'm neither a
                       UK citizen nor an expert on foreign health care so my
                       facts may be off.  I fail to see how this is obvious.
                       -dans
                       \_ I think the guy thought the obvious part was
                          socialized medicine == minimum care level for
                          everyone increases (by definition), and maximum care
                          level for the rich potentially decreases.
                          Anyway, you have undergrads to near 40-year-olds on
                          soda, so you probably got a cranky alumnus annoyed.
                          \_ *nod* I consider it my solemn duty to annoy
                             cranky alumni.  Of course, I also happen to be
                             one, which is probably why I bother reading the
                             motd. :) -dans
           \_ socialized * raises the minimum level (often from 0) for everyone
              but usually lowers the maximum level available
           \_ It is noteworthy that it doesn't have to lower the max level. A
              private elite care system layered over the socialized
              infrastructure should allow the same max, unless innovation
              is harmed by lost profit potentials in some way (drug
              development?) or some kind of lower overall efficiency (not
              obvious).
              \_ Ah, but look at our schools.  The affluent being able to
                 opt-out of having their kids exposed to public education has
                 reduced the quality of the public system.
                 \_ Prove it. (also the max is still high, which was my point)
              \_ Currently, approx 1/3 of all the money spent on healthcare is
                 spent on PAPERWORK, so think of the efficiency improvement if
                 that could be reduced to 5% or lower.
                 \_ Medicare's administrative costs (includes paperwork) are
                    approximately 1%. -dans
                    \_ my googling is showing 3% Medicare, 15-25% HMOs.
                       -someone else
                       \_ mea culpa.  Even so, 3% < 5%, and still kicks the
                          shit out of private healthcare systems. -dans
                 \_ Are you arguing for or against the socialization? I don't
                    see paperwork necessarily being much better for either.
                    \_ Although I'm not saying Canada's system is perfect,
                       it seems pretty clear that it has less paperwork:
                       http://tinyurl.com/equd5
                       "On a visit to the 900-bed Toronto General, Dr.
                        Himmelstein recounts searching for the billing office;
                        it ended up being a handful of people in the basement,
                        whose main job was to mail bills to US patients who
                        had come across the border."
                       "Back in Boston, Himmelstein visited Massachusetts
                        General Hospital, which was similar to Toronto
                        General in size and in the range of services
                        provided. He was told that Massachusetts General's
                        billing department employed 352 full-time personnel,
                        all of them fighting tooth and nail with hundreds of
                        insurance plans, each with their own rules about how
                        to document every item used for every patient."
              \_ How is that different from what we have today?  I can go into
                 my employer provided (crappy but free) Kaiser system and I
                 might survive a serious illness, or do POS/PPO which costs
                 more but I'll live or do cash-only out of pocket for all
                 services which will cost me less/year for normal services but
                 wipe me out for a major issue.  If I was rich I'd get
                 fantastic service and survive.
                 \_ It isn't really, except we still have lots of people
                    uncovered, so that baseline isn't very good or very
                    solid. I'm just responding to the previous posters.
                 \_ The difference is that today the onus is on employers to
                    provide healthcare, and many part-time/low-wage workers do
                    not have healthcare as a result.  The high cost of
                    healthcare for uninsured individuals disincentivizes them
                    from seeking out preventative care, thus increasing the
                    risk that they will need urgent/emergency care.  Emergency
                    care is more costly, and puts a greater strain on the
                    entire system, which pushes prices up for *everyone*. -dans
2006/3/13-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:42217 Activity:nil
3/13    Might be time to unload cattle futures.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060313/ap_on_go_ot/mad_cow
        \_ Oh no. Now Japan will never import American beef again.
           \_ Ever!  Because suddenly Japan's land crunch will end!
        \_ buy EMRG
2006/2/22-27 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41962 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060222/hl_nm/alzheimers_decline_dc
        Education delays Alzheimers. Better stay in school! In other
        news, Ronald Reagan's rapid progression of Alzheimer was
        most likely caused by his lack of education.
        \_ Yeah, but too much education wastes your life away so you don't want
           to remember it anyway.   -bitter phd
        \_ Stop trying to troll ilya, he's not around anymore.
           \_ Who is ilya and is he like a typical Republican--
              hard core, stubborn, self-righteous, and worships Reagan?
              \_ Do a search on "ilyas" in kais motd.  I think you'll agree
                 that the word "typical" doesn't belong in any sentence that
                 has that guy's name in it.
              \_ No, he's hard core, stubborn, and self-righteous, but it
                 stems from a violent, albeit somewhat understandable since he
                 grew up in Communist Russia, suspicion and loathing for all
                 forms of government social programs.
              \_ Yawn.  "Who are you and are you like the typical <opposition
                 party member>-- hard core, stubborn, self-righteous, and
                 worships <recent President and member of opposition party>?"
                 Thank you for playing the "Young Motd Troll Game".  D-.
2006/2/14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41839 Activity:high 57%like:41840
2/14    Happy VD Day!
        \_ Happy Venereal Disease Day?  Well, that's true.
2006/1/26 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41544 Activity:nil
1/26    Quit it already, Mr. Furious. It's getting old and boring. Please
        consider going to a shrink, it is possible that you have obsessive
        compulsory disease mixed with a mild form of bipolarism.
2006/1/11-13 [Health/Disease/General, Consumer/Audio] UID:41339 Activity:low
1/11    Tom on Apple (last March):
              \_ Because even with the numbers that soundly beat everyone's
                 expectations, and even if they're able to keep that level
                 of revenue coming in, the company's still not worth 45
                 times earnings.  Prospects for growth from this Q's
                 revenues are pretty small in the near term.  -tom
        \_ And what did the anonymous coward think?  Let's see where you
           projected 14 million iPods in Q4 2005.  (By the way, I still own
           AAPL).
           My current projection for Apple's future is mixed.  I think there's
           a way that they've become a Rule Maker; they are clearly defining
           the market in digital music, and getting other companies to jump
           to their call.  (Half the MacWorld floor is music-related stuff).
           Still, I think the company has challenges in defining itself.
           Are they a computer company or a consumer electronics company?
           What's the follow-up to the iPod?  (Because iPod sales *will*
           taper off; it's only a question of when).  How much of a revenue
           and inventory write-off hit will they take in transitioning to
           Intel chips?  (Probably non-trivial; my bet on why they didn't
           announce an Intel tower is that they have too much inventory of
           G5 towers).
           Also, their CEO, the source of most of their cachet, has cancer.
           Jobs left the company once before; the results of that should
           be instructive.  -tom
           \_ oh and another thing: I believe the message you're quoting
              was responding to "why did AAPL go down even after they
              announced good earnings?"  -tom
           \_ He still has it? I thought he was "cured". I just had to
              google this, never heard of it... and I have to wonder,
              how did they find his cancer in time? Do people have
              regular screenings for stuff like that or would there
              be symptoms?
              \_ His cancer is not currently threatening his life or health;
                 it has been treated.  Still, it's something to worry
                 about as an investor.  -tom
2006/1/9-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41309 Activity:nil
1/9     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6248862
        Flu activity by week.  Click Previous / Next Week.
        Note that blue means "No activity", whereas light-green means Sporadic.
        (Had no idea this stuff spreads that quickly ...)
        \_ i'm glad i've already gotten the flu this season.
        \_ Fascinating.  Are we getting this from Mexico?
2006/1/9-12 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41308 Activity:kinda low
1/9     Cough syrups are placebos.
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-01-09-cough_x.htm
        \_ I catch common cold regularly and in my experience Robotusin
           and similar products are POS. A cup of tea with lemon and/or honey
           works much better. If you're somewhere outside near a coffee shop,
           buying a large cup of latte also helps (I get it with a single
           shot of expresso since I don't like the coffee by itself that
           much).
           \_ What effect are you expecting robitussin to have?
              \_ cough suppression
                 \_ robitussin is guifenesin (see below).  the DM variety
                    uses a muscle relaxant.  Looking at other, more informative
                    reports, it looks like they're saying the dextromorphan
                    dosage is too low to have any pronounced effect.  any higher
                    though and its narcotic properties would make them dangerous
                    \_ dangerous?  Dude, you've obviously never done Robo
                       properly.  And don't even get me started on Romilar.
        \_ dextromethorphan doesn't supress coughing, although it's supposed
           to, and I've seen several studies on this.
           guaifenesin is supposed to help make a cough more productive, and
           this is the first time I've read that there's no scientific
           evidence that it helps in this way.  I have my doubts that the
           USA Today author is completely correct.
           \_ Agreed.  This feels like a BBC style misinterpretation of
              a medical journal report.
              \_ I don't think you're agreeing with what you think you are.
                 The grandparent-poster agrees with the USA Today article.
                 \_ oops, grandparent-poster misspoke in last sentence.
                    corrected.  sorry.
              \_ Executive summary available from the source:
                 http://www.chestnet.org
                 "Cough and the Common Cold
                        1. Patients with acute cough (as well as PND
                        and throat clearing) associated with the common
                        cold can be treated with a first-generation
                        A/D preparation (brompheniramine and
                        sustained-release pseudoephedrine). Naproxen
                        can also be administered to help decrease
                        cough in this setting. Level of evidence, fair;
                        benefit, substantial; grade of recommendation, A
                        2. In patients with the common cold, newer
                        generation nonsedating antihistamines are ineffective
                        for reducing cough and should not be
                        used. Level of evidence, fair; benefit, none; grade of
                        recommendation, D
                        3. In patients with cough and acute URTI,
                        because symptoms, signs, and even sinus-imaging
                        abnormalities may be indistinguishable
                        from acute bacterial sinusitis, the diagnosis of
                        bacterial sinusitis should not be made during
                        the first week of symptoms. (Clinical judgment
                        is required to decide whether to institute antibiotic
                        therapy.) Level of evidence, fair; benefit,
                        none; grade of recommendation, D"
           \_ I use the regular Robotussin (guaifensin only) with good
              results. My coughs do become more productive. I guess even if
              it's a placebo it works for me.
              \_ Try whiskey.  Same placebo effect, more fun!
        \_ mm... DXM... hehehe.  Good times.
2006/1/2-3 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41193 Activity:moderate
1/1     Pretend I live in an alternative dimension and I got really drunk
        with Sergei Brin.  Pretend we had consensual sex.  Pretend
        that I discovered 5 days later that he was taking herpes
        treatment medication.  Pretend 7 days later (after initial
        contact) I developed herpes symptoms.  Alternative dimension
        Bizarro World Sergei didn't rape me or anything but he didn't
        tell me he had herpes.  Can I sue him?  How do you sue someone
        with an insane amount of more financial resources than you have?
        \_ You have to stop drinking when you write on the MOTD
           \- Why dont you distill this to the question you are really
              asking. "Can I sue somebody for giving me a communicable
              disease?" is a different question from the "civil procedure"
              issues [what law do I sue under, where do I sue, how much
              can I get, what happens when I lose, how is this appealed, how
              do I collect etc.]. Also, this sort of touches on what are
              called remedies at law vs. equity, meaning you can try to sue
              somebody for $$$ or to get them to do something [more rare].
              I think in this case you might be able to have this adequately
              resolved outside the court system by offering to not to public-
              ly disclose you were assmastered [I am assuming you are a sloda
              male] in an alternative [sic] dimension by that Brin fellow.
              An interesting question is "if i do not contract herpes, can
              i sue for the unpleasant experience of worrying i may have
              herpes for 2-days" ... that has some interesting consequences.
              Anyway, some details about you story like "i got drunk ... we
              had consensual sex", "i depvelop symtoms" as opposed to "i am
              diagnosed with herpes" [n.b. I dont know anything about herpes
              so i cannot comment on possibly relevant medical factors]
              clouds the issue about what you are really asking. Another
              interesting question is say the othe fellow believed with
              very high confidence [say he mailed you a certified letter]
              you knew he had disease X, but it turned out you didnt know,
              how do things change? or what about if he disclosed he had
              disease X and you asked "is that contageous" and he said
              "i dont think so" ... how does that change things? --psb
              \_ I didn't mean to sound cryptic with 'symptoms of herpes'.
                 Doctor confirms it is herpes.  Lab results from the culture
                 confirm it is herpes.  The 2 weeks of oozing pustules confirm
                 it pretty well too.  Bizarre World Sergei knew he had herpes
                 but he didn't think he was contagious.
                 it pretty well too.  Bizarro World Sergei knew he had herpes
                 but he didn't think he was contagious.  Nearly 1/3 or greater
                 or some other scary amount of adults have herpes type 1
                 on their lips (also known as cold sores).  If you stick
                 it on your genitals then you start calling it genital herpes.
                 Many people carry it for years without showing symptoms,
                 but are still communicable.  The only way to avoid it is to
                 marry a Mormon who has never had a cold sore.
                \_ 70-90% have oral herpes, up to 30% have genital herpes
        http://health.enotes.com/childrens-health-encyclopedia/herpes-simplex
2005/12/29-2006/1/1 [Health/Disease/General, Recreation/Pets] UID:41169 Activity:high
12/29   Damn, I can't believe I need a prescription for my fucking pet
        Are there any Mexican Vet Pharmacies online that will sell me
        some .8mg levothyroxine pills. - can't get throught the spam.
        \_ Unless you're opposed to prescriptions for humans, you have taken
           an inconsistent position.  Many of the medicines prescribed for pets
           are the same as those used in humans, especially painkillers.  If
           you think they should all be available over the counter, fine.
           But you can't just expect stores to sell prescription painkillers
           over the counter with a label that says "only for pets" and expect
           that to work.
           \_ And yet you can buy a lot of medicines at a farm supply
              (including some medicines a human would need a prescription
              for) that would require a prescription for, say, a dog.
              When a farmer needs to treat 1000 cows/chickens/whatever he
              often treats them all and without a prescription. The
              problem with shopping at a farm supply is that the
              concentrations are often too high to dose a single pet.
           \_ The law, much like life, is inconsistent. Deal with it.
        \_ Can't believe?  First pet?
        \_ My cat might have this, too. What were the symptoms of your
           pet?
                \_ sounds like his pet is hypothyroid, so it'll probably
                   be lethargic, tired, overweight, and slightly cold.
        \_ Why don't you just go to the vet. considering you know that
           your pet needs levothyroxine, I'm assuming you realized this
           because a vet told you.
        \_ http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/general/eltroxin.html
2005/12/12-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40979 Activity:nil
12/12   "Mice Created With Human Brain Cells"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051212/ap_on_sc/mice_human_brains
        I've been pro-stem-cell-research, but this I think is going too far.
        \_ Um, why?  Is it the yuck factor?
           |_ Gee, Brain, what are we going to do tonight?
           \_ for me it is about taking too many steps towards creating
              chimera people.  just because we can do something doesn't mean
              we should.  im very pro-research but there is something about
              this beyond the simple yuck factor.
              \_ So would you rather we use human subjects for such tests?
        \_ Didn't you ever see the Secret of Nimh?  Mice are cute!
                                                    \_ Err, thank you.  -mice
2005/11/22-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:40700 Activity:kinda low
11/22   http://www.lao.ca.gov/2000/calfacts/2000_calfacts_demographics.html
        Proof that when the economy is good, more people fuck and
        make babies. Recession=fewer babies, dot-com=lots of babies.
        Human beings are like cockroaches. When you give them food,
        they reproduce a lot.
        \_ Umm, and this wasn't obvious? This is just a corollary of the
           fact that people try to avoid spending money (babies cost a lot)
           when they feel like they've got less of it.
        \_ Only in the short term, in general, long term prosperity
           produces lower birth rates.
        \_ At current global growth rates, we'll have something like 40
           billion people in 100 years, 15 trillion in 200 years ... The
           growth party will eventually stop and if history is any guide
           it's going to be "demand destruction" in the most painful sense
           possible.
           \_ Thomas Malthus... Paul Ehrlich... Anonymous MOTD poster...
              Man, that's a rich tradition of accurate forecasting of
              over-population doom and gloom.
                \_ Actually famine and population decimation has been pretty
                   normal throughout all of history, including recent
                   times.  Witness Darfur, Rwanda, etc.
           \_ Don't worry, antibiotic/drug resistant AIDS, malaria, cholera,
              tuberculosis, flu, pneumonia, etc., famine, and war will knock
              down human populations well before the 40 billion mark.  Hell,
              we might have uncontrolled antibiotic-resistant pneumonic
              plague, too.
              \_ For humanitiy's sake, stop participating FightAIDS@home and
                 help reduce human population.  Yeah, really!
           \_ Do your population estimates take into account that as
              economic conditions improve people become less fecund?
                \_ This is where the "at current global growth rates" bit
                   kicks in.
                   \_ IOW, no.  Thanks for playing.
                        \_ Something will stop the global growth rates,
                           but it won't be improving economic conditions.
2005/11/14-15 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40585 Activity:moderate
11/14   Chilly external temperatures CAN lead to a cold.  (duh)
        http://csua.org/u/e0h (forbes.com)
        "Researchers at Cardiff University in Wales asked 180 volunteers to ...
        soak their feet in ice-cold water or place them in an empty bowl for 20
        minutes. Of the people who soaked their feet in cold water, 29 percent
        developed cold symptoms over the next four to five days, compared to 9
        percent of those in the control group, the investigators report in the
        Nov. 14 issue of the journal Family Practice."
        \_ I say "placebo effect".
           \_ The next experiment will have the control group soaking their
              feet in warm water.  Ph.D. here I comE1!!!!1
                \_ They should have told the cold water crowd that the water
                   had been treated with a new drug that protects against the
                   cold.
                   \_ Indeed.
                      \_ These people were probably pulling ice cubes out
                         of their freezer.  They had to do it for 20 minutes
                         a day for 1 week.
                      \_ Yeah, actually I'm reading that they just did the
                         20-minute soak for one day, and it was all students.
                         Not reliable.  Oops!  I'm with placebo guy, unless
                         they actually did virus count tests on all 180 ppl,
                         which I doubt. -op
        \_ yeah, "duh". cold symptoms != having a cold. duh.
           \_ latent infection -> full-blown cold symptoms -> real cold
2005/11/8-9 [Health/Disease/General, Science] UID:40497 Activity:nil
11/8    5 cases of polio in MN Amish group.  link:tinyurl.com/atvhz
        \_ Good for them!  They resisted the evil tyrannical gubbament and its
           attempts to inject nasty SCIENCE chemicals into their god loving
           children!
           \_ Hey, nice strawman.  Did they get cervical cancer via HPV too?
              \_ Heh, thanks man.
           \_ Contrary to popular belief, the Amish embrace modern medical
              science.  Note that the baby that spread the disease got it in
              a hospital.  The amish are more hostile to technology that helps
              you get stuff done quickly.
              \_ Yup.  See #4 in http://www.amish-heartland.com/?topic=FAQ
2005/11/3-4 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:40428 Activity:very high
11/03   I wasn't involved in the discussion below, but you self-righteous
        do-gooders really blow my mind.  I'm curious as to just how rampant
        this type of (un)thinking is.  It is time for a poll -phuqm

        It is reasonable ...

        to force children to have HPV vaccinations: .

        unless they are Christian scientists or other similar wingnuts:

        to allow parents to make this decision based on whatever beliefs: .
        \_ So you disagree with mandating vaccinations in general?  Or is
           it just this vaccination that is nearly always effective against
           a virus that will give you or your female partner cancer?
           \_ dude, what is so hard about putting a little '.' next to the
              first choice?  Why would I want to talk to you if you aren't
              willing to play along with my poll?  Because I'm such a nice
              guy I will assume that the first . in that category is yours
              and will answer your question soon thereafter.  -phuqm
              \_ I'm contesting your question because it's loaded.  If you
                 can't ask a direct question, don't expect a direct answer,
                 crebbs. --scotsman
                 --scotsman
                  \_ so you have some policy against answering loaded
                     questions? What are you a politician?  feel free to
                     add your own category if you think these don't cover
                     all the basis, but I don't see what is wrong with the
                     way these are phrased (unless you object to me calling
                     C.scientists wingnuts, but somehow i doubt that is
                     is the problem.) If there is some other problem I'd LOVE
                     to see an explanation of it. -phuqm
                 \_ Oh, and you know who I am, and I know who I am, and so
                    do most people here who care, so is it really necessary
                    to keep outing me? (anyway i'm not him)
                    \_ Hmm... Should we tell root to squish his account
                       for sharing it?
                    \_ yes you are. -phuqm
                         \_ bastard.
                            \_ yep. -phuqm
                               \_ Or maybe they could squish you for talking
                                  to yourself...
                                  \_ if that's squishable, then I will have a
                                     tough time coming up with a defense.
           \_ So, yeah, i'm rabid libertarian and - despite the obvious free
           \_ So, yeah, i'm a rabid libertarian and - despite the obvious free
              rider problem - I never think it is o.k. to force a parent to
              allow the government to inject something into their child. I
              don't really care if the person's reason is that he thinks the
              vial is full of little deamons that are going to steal his kids
              soul; to me it is a simple question of who decides: the govmnt.
              vial is full of little demons that are going to steal his kids
              soul; to me it is a simple question of who decides.
              \_ Do you also disagree with forcing kids to go to school?
                 What about the government taking kids away from parents who
                 the government deems incompetent? Just curious.
              \_ If you were to live on an isolated desert island where
                 your choices had no effect on other ppl, then this line
                 of thinking makes sense. However, if you are living in
                 a place w/ thousands of ppl your choice not to vaccinate
                 your children can have a profound effect on the health
                 of other children. What right do you have to ask other
                 ppl to sacrifice their childrens health?
                 As I said below, once you agree to live in society there
                 is no such thing as an abs. right. Think of it as the
                 price of admission.
                 \_ Why would it have a profound effect on other children?
                    The other children would be vaccinated if the other
                    people are worried.
        \_ Once you agree to live in society there is no such thing as
           an abs. right. Every right is subject to some amt. of regulation
           by the legislature/executive. If the gov feels that the best or
           only way to deal w/ a major health problem is mass vaccination
           and they have proof that the means chosen (mass vaccination) are
           the best or only way to deal w/ the problem, then you have three
           choices - go along w/ the vaccination, get the law repealed OR
           leave society.
            \_ indeed. though I fail to see what relevence this has on this
               discussion.  I would also point out (also somewhat ir-
               relevantly) that there are few places left on the planet not
               claimed as the dominion of some "society" or other, which makes
               that last option increasingly difficult. -phuqm
               \_ If this is a major health problem only option 1 makes sense.
                  Options 2 and 3 suggest that regardless of a finding that
                  this is a major health problem, the kooks have some rights
                  that trump. I'm saying no. Any right the kooks have are
                  subordinate to society's interest in the general welfare.
                  There are plenty of places in this world where society
                  doesn't really reach (different than claimed as territory
                  by some nation).
                  You can't let a bunch of kooks run around and not vaccinate
                  their kids b/c anything less than total vaccination will be
                  ineffective. If the legislature finds that this is a major
                  health problem, I'm willing to defer to that judgment b/c
                  the whole reason they were elected was to make this sort of
                  decisions (via advice from qualified agencies, &c.)
                  \_ Well, I guess it's ok so long as it's someone right
                     thinking like you deciding what is in the best interest
                     of society.
            \_ You are skipping forward to the assumption that this is a
               'major health problem'.  Also, no one ever acknowledged that
               drug companies have sold us plenty of crap over the years that
               causes side effects such as sterility, liver failure, heart
               failure, kidney failure, and death.  Don't worry, it was all
               tested!  Yay!  You're still fucked and can't undo the damage.
               I guess we'll just raise taxes to pay for all the law suits.
               \_ It's major if you're a woman.
               \_ I'm not skipping forward. I'm merely saying that if the
                  gov. finds that this is a major health problem, they have
                  the pwr to act on it w/o having to worry about the rights
                  of the kooks.
2005/11/1-4 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40371 Activity:moderate
11/1    Stupidity watch: Religious groups opposing usage of 100% effective
        vaccine against HPV.  One of these people has been placed on the CDC
        advisory board by Bush.
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/31/MNG2LFGJFT1.DTL#story
        \_ Not stupidity.  Evil.  Just call it what it is.
                \_ How about evil stupidity? Fortunately most people can see
                   this for what it is: a Taliban level of desire to put
                   religion above the well being of people.  It's truly
                   disgusting that this is even an issue in a supposedly
                   advanced country like the United States.
           \_ How about evil stupidity? Fortunately most people can see this
              for what it is: a Taliban level of desire to put religion above
              the well being of people.  It's truly disgusting that this is
              even an issue in a supposedly advanced country like the United
              States.
        \_ we live in a fundamentalist Christian government.  get used to it.
        \_ uhm ok, i think im the only one here who RTFA.  they oppose making
           it mandatory for all kids, giving parents the choice about what goes
           into their kid's drug stream.  HPV isn't a plague upon the earth
           killing millions of people every year.  It isn't going to cause an
           epidemic in school like typhoid.  they aren't trying to ban the
           shots from availability.  when everything looks like a big deal,
           nothing ends up looking like a big deal.
           \_ Do you understand anything about public health?
              Or for that matter HPV?
              \_ Yes, what about it?  Did you RTFA?  Do you have something to
                 say about it?  Glad to chat.
           \_ not gonna eradicate a disease like that.  If it can be eradicated
              then people won't need it at all, in a decade or so.  and really,
              what the religious groups are doing will only hurt the lower class
              who won't know any better.  It's too bad they didn't know any
              better when they voted in Pope Bush II.
              \_ that's correct, allowing people to choose will not lead to
                 eradication.  correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it the case
                 that we have yet to eradicate *any* disease despite having
                 active programs around the world and working vaccines for
                 decades for many things and a mandatory shot before entering
                 school?  why is that so?  once bush is out of office will all
                 these diseases suddenly become eradicated or is there some
                 other thing going on besides the bush boogey man?
                 \_ We are talking about the United States.  Smallpox &
                 \_ We are talking about the United States.  Smallpox, measles &
                    Polio seem to be pretty well under control here.
                    \_ You can't isolate a large population like 300m in the
                       US and claim you're eliminated a disease.  We're talking
                       about the entire world.  Giving mandatory shots to
                       American HS girls won't eradicate any diseases.
                        \_ Huh? When did we have control over other parts of
                           the world?
                           \_ We didn't and can't.  Thus the concept of disease
                              eradication being the reason for mandatory shots
                              is silly.  Glad you agree.
                                \_ But it has been eradicated HERE.
                                   \_ Disease is world wide.  And no, things we
                                      once thought were eradicated HERE are
                                      back and spreading again because they
                                      were not eradicated world wide.  Nothing
                                      has been eradicated HERE for that reason.
              \_ http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm
        \_ god damn it... i thought we went through this 20 years ago...
           The reason why conservatives doesn't want to make this vaccine
           mandatory is because it actually has side effect of protecting
           one from certain form of STD.  Under that logic, we need to get
           rid of condomns, and hepatitis vaccine as well, as Hepatitis
           strictly speaking a STD too!
           \_ And the reason for that is, according to the conservative and/or
              extremist Christian brain, that if you cure STDs everyone will
              sleep around nonstop and start having sex at age 8.  Dying
              from AIDS and suffering from STDs is preferable to that.
              start sleeping around and having sex at age 8.  Dying from AIDS
              and suffering from STDs is a much better than that scenario.
           \_ Some say that.  Others say vaccines have caused other medical
              problems and putting something in your body should be a choice.
              You *are* pro-choice, aren't you?
                \_ Parents should be allowed to opt-out.  It's not easily
                   contagious.
                   contagious.  It's STUPID because the downside is increasing
                   the chances your child will die from a cancer.
                   \_ Yes, it is truly stupid and I'd get my kids the shots
                      but I wouldn't *force* another parent to do so if they
                      didn't want to.  It won't hurt my kid if their kid gets
                      cancer or HPV.  Their kid can go get the shot themself
                      later as an adult (or probably younger than 18 frankly)
                      if their parents are that extreme.  For something
                      contagious and nasty, yes, I believe enforced vaccination
                      is the right thing to do, but not HPV.
                      \_ Clearly you don't know much about HPV infection
                         statistics.  You almost certainly have it already.
                         Vaccinating after you become sexually active is
                         pretty much useless.
                         \_ So I'm going to get cervical cancer?  Uh oh....
                            HPV = STD.  A kid who is having sex is going to
                            get a lot of things.  Making a mandatory shot for
                            something you say I have and is doing nothing of
                            note to me is ridiculous.  This isn't polio.  This
                            isn't the plague.  And mandatory shots are not
                            going to eradicate anything.  Make it available,
                            make it free, whatever.  Don't make it mandatory.
                            It has nothing to do with school, education, or
                            anything like that.  It is not going to spread
                            at random by sneezing kids in the hallway.  Again,
                            I ask, aren't you pro-choice?  Shouldn't we have
                            the right to decide what does and does not go
                            into our bodies and what we do with them?  That
                            is the underlying philosophy behind the right to
                            abortion, air pollution regulations and a bunch
                            of other things.  Why are you forcing something
                            into some 9 year old's blood stream against her
                            parent's wishes?
                            \_ You're a blithering idiot.  HPV might not
                               "do anything to you," but you can pass it on
                               to any female partner who can then contract
                               cervical cancer.  Cervical cancer is one of
                               the leading causes of death in women.  Condoms
                               can't really do jack shit to stop it.  A women
                               could do the "right thing" and stay a virgin
                               until marriage, and still die because she
                               contracts the disease from her new husband (who
                               is very difficult to test for this virus and
                               likely has no idea that he has it).  This is
                               a public health issue, not an issue of "choice."
                               Or do you just want anyone who ever has sex
                               to die?
                               \_ This made me laugh, thanks.  "THE SKY IS
                                  FALLING!"  Yes, on my way to work I saw at
                                  least 3 dozen women dying by the side of the
                                  road of HPV induced cervical cancer.  Again,
                                  this is not a plague.  It is not contagious
                                  like many real killers.  It is public
                                  health issue in the way that drug use and
                                  alcohol are.  I'm glad you have such faith
                                  in the pharmceutical establishment, but
                                  they have a spotty record of selling us
                                  things that turn out later to cause birth
                                  defects, death, sterility, and pretty much
                                  anything else you can think of.  If an
                                  entire generation of little girls finds out
                                  they're sterile, you're going to say what?
                                  "At least you're safe from HPV!"
                                  \_ 250K deaths/year in the world isn't
                                     nothing.  And they are doing studies
                                     on this first.
                                     \_ Heh, so when I talked about the world,
                                        I'm told we're talking about the US.
                                        When I talked about the US, I'm told
                                        we're talking about the world.  I've
                                        said my piece and don't feel like
                                        playing catch-22 rhetorical games in
                                        place of actual topic discussion.  If
                                        you have something to actually discuss
                                        I'd be glad to continue.  I'm not at
                                        all interested in dormie-style point-
                                        scoring intellectual dishonesty.
                                        \_ You're talking to multiple people.
                                           Deal with it.
                                           \_ I already answered both the
                                              US-only and World-wide people
                                              with no real response.  Nothing
                                              to deal with.  People who want
                                              9 year olds to get mandatory
                                              drug injections for diseases
                                              that aren't spread in that
                                              environment and aren't causing
                                              polio-like problems are anti-
                                              choice.  If they're pro-choice
                                              elsewhere they're inconsistent
                                              and intellectually dishonest.
                                              Dealt with.  Done.
                                              \_ So what should be done about
                                                 the measels/mumps/rubella
                                                 shots that are mandated now?
                                                 Are you working against those
                                                 because you're so pro-choice?
                                              \_ There's a big difference
                                                 between the imposition of
                                                 being made to take a shot
                                                 and being made to give birth
                                                 against your will.  The
                                                 difference is such that
                                                 calling someone who is for
                                                 mandatory immunizations
                                                 logically inconsistent
                                                 because they also support
                                                 abortion rights is totally
                                                 ridiculous.  --PeterM
2005/10/31-11/1 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40363 Activity:nil
10/31   Some tuna and sharks are partially warm blooded:
        http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=104543&org=NSF&from=news
        \_ must be work of Saddam Hussin
2005/10/28-31 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40325 Activity:nil
10/28   Exxon-Mobil Employees Given Fake Flu Shots
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051028/ap_on_he_me/fake_flu_shots
        \_ I got jabbed in the arm and I'll I got was this lousy placebo.
           \_ We demand extra-strength placebos!
              \_ I want some quality sugar cane not that corn syrup crap.
2005/10/28-31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Health/Disease/General] UID:40316 Activity:low 92%like:40315
10/29   http://csua.org/u/duq [gothamist.com]
        "The whole city smells like maple syrup" - anyone know what's going on?
        \_ There's a section of pathway in Lakeside Park where there's a burst
        \_ There's a section of pathway in Merritt Park where there's a burst
           of maple syrup smell.  I'm almost positive it's from a tree.  Either
           from the bark or the leaves.
        \_ Perhaps there was a big pancake breakfast at the homeless
           shelter, such that the usual bum/urine smell was covered over
           by the new sweet smelling bums.
           \_ I just got back from NYC and had few little bum/urine/puke/
              garbage smelling experiences. Unlike the mission, where I get to
              smell it everyday... I'm told that east coast cities smell less
              than SF/SOMA because it rains more there, but I'm thinking that
              there's more to it. Anyone have any crazy hypothosis?
              \_ California pee more odiferous. It's the cheese, man.
                 \- it may just be colder.
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Health/Disease/General] UID:40315 Activity:nil 92%like:40316
10/29   http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2005/10/28/maple_sugar_smell_mystery.php
        "The whole city smells like maple syrup" - anyone know what's going on?
2005/10/24 [Health/Women, Health/Disease/General] UID:40240 Activity:kinda low
10/24   Dear motd baby experts, my wife and I have been trying to have a baby
        for over a year but haven't had much luck. We're both over 30. This
        month she had a fever and flu symptoms (muscle ache, chills, etc)
        on the week she usually has her period and the fever lasted 2-3 days,
        and she's about a week late. She doesn't want to "waste" EPT again
        and now I'm really REALLY anxious. Are these signs that I may
        finally be a daddy??!? Are these signs normal?
        \_ It pains me to see people replace their professionally trained
           doctors with motd.
        \_  <hush falls over the crowd> ...... I think the motd baby experts
           have spoken
        \_ It's possible, pregnancy hormones can do some pretty crazy
           stuff.  Those symptoms are pretty severe though, my wife starts
           getting nausea around her first skipped period.  Home pregnancy
           tests are pretty cheap.
        \_ How much does an EPT cost?
           \_ around $10 per test.  Still pretty cheap.
           \_ if you can't afford pregnancy tests, you really shouldn't be
              having children...
2005/10/14-15 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40099 Activity:nil
10/14   Yay, we can now synthesize 1918 Spanish flu from scratch!
        http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/1005/06natflu.html
        "The group then used the recovered virus in experiments on mice,
        chicken eggs and cultures of human lung tissue. It killed all the mice
        within days, as well as chicken embryos normally used to produce
        quantities of virus for vaccines. And it reproduced rapidly in lung
        cells, even in cell cultures made to mimic certain body tissues where
        flu cannot normally grow."
        http://csua.org/u/dq3 (genomebiology.com)
        "The findings raised enough concerns to inspire the US National Science
        Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) to call an emergency meeting
        with the journals' editors, after which officials agreed that the
        benefits of publication outweighed any risks."
        http://csua.org/u/dq4 (Krauthammer column)
        "The flu virus, properly evolved, is potentially a destroyer of
        civilizations. We might have just given it to our enemies. Have a nice
        day."
        \_ this is old news.  buy crucell's stock.  buy buy buy.
           \_ oops, sorry, I went on vacation the day the news broke.
              anyway, some more informative links, mainly that there was an
              informed decision by experts to release the data, and there is
              a right-wing wacko today who chose not to mention that.
2005/10/5-6 [Health/Disease/General] UID:39992 Activity:nil
10/5    Today's NYTimes article:
        Scientists reconstructed 1918 flu virus (from woman who died from it
        and got buried in Alaska's permafrost), and say it is a bird flu.
        Scary!
        \_ We should just pass a law and make it illegal to be ill with the
           the bird flu.
           \_ Or have the army shoot them, how 'bout that?
              \_ No, that presupposes that people will get sick of the disease.
                 Why plan for failure that will never happen?  A solution that
                 presupposes no one will get sick is much better.  Why create
                 a mechanism to deal with errors?  Why debug?  Just make sure
                 there are no errors and no bugs to start with.
                 \_ Would you please be so kind as to warn us if you ever run
                    for any political office with any real power?  Thanks.
                        \_ Are you putting down President Bush's faith-based
                           initiatives?
                           \_ Or the poster below's unshakable faith there
                              will be a vaccine for any pandemic?
        \_ I have a feeling that US Army is going to use it as a biological
           weapon
           \_ It already did. It's called the smallpox blanket.
              Go Manifest Destiny!
                 A solution that presupposes no one will get sick is much
                 better.  Why create a mechanism to deal with errors?  Why
                 debug?  Just make sure there are no errors and no bugs to
                 start with.
2005/10/5-6 [Health/Disease/General] UID:39988 Activity:nil
10/5    A failed-regime approval rating, and now he wants to use the military
        to enforce an avian-flu quarantine:
        http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/05/bush.reax
        Can you say "Junta"?
        \_ dude, this is not about avian flu.  This is about rather we should
           repeal 100 yr old ban and allow military to enforce civilian law!!
        \_ If you were President and the flu hit this country in a big way with
           the possibility of millions of citizens dying, what would your
           policy be regarding quarantine and how would you enforce it?
           \_ We've got this institution called the National Guard that is
              supposed to be used for just this purpose.  Too bad the current
              administration has destroyed it's effectivity by using to fight
              wars they got into with insufficent forces and now noone in
              their right mind is willing to join.
              \_ So instead of government controlled military we'll instead use
                 government controlled military?
                 \_ I'm a liberal, so I'm for limited, local government.
                    \_ I'm a human being, so I'm for getting rid of diseases.
                       \_ right, like the diseases of homosexuality, atheism, etc.
           \_ Given the amount of warning(years) we've had about the avian flu,
              I would never have allowed my country to be unprepared.  With US
              resources, I would've devoted time and energy into vaccine
              research, manufacture and distribution.
              \_ Yes, I'm sure our caring government will do just that by
                 leaving this monumental task to our almighty corporations.
                \_ The sad fact is that it's entirely possible that no amount
                   of vaccine research/manufacture/distribution is likely to
                   be of any value.  See, the pandemic will start soon after
                   the flu *mutates*, and so most likely any vaccine made
                   for pre-mutant flu strains will simply not work.  --PM
                   \_ why is that necessarily so?  If the two strains
                      share features, and the vaccine induced immune
                      response targets those features, it would still
                      work.
                      \_ or it may not in which case you've wasted tons of
                         cash and researcher time on a useless vaccine.
                         \_ compared to the cost of a serious pandemic,
                            the cost is minimal.  research stage vaccines
                            already exist.  one big question is how they
                            can be quickly produced (see crxl below).
           \_ Get a better customs inspection policy in place or have the
              heads of those responsible for said policy.
              \_ Because customs can prevent people with the flu from crossing
              \_ Because customs can prevent people with the fly from crossing
                 boarders?
        \_ Reminds me of the movie "Outbreak".
        \_ In a proper junta, the military leader would have significant pull.
           I doubt Rummy would threaten to overrule either Bush or Cheney and
           he has NO personal loyalty from the troops.
        \_ Yep.  A slow response to Katrina means Bush dropped the ball.  A
           planned fast response to a pandemic is a junta.  You're quite a
           piece of work.
           \_ If he planned to execute anyone who contracted avian flu, that
              would be a fast response, too, and I'd still condemn it. Try out
              these new glasses; they let you see more than just black and
              white.
              \_ I missed the part where "fast = Hitler".  Nice try though.
                 What do you think should be done if there were an Avian Flu
                 pandemic?
                 \_ Step one, do your best to _prevent_ an Avian Flu pandemic.
                    You never heard that an ounce of prevention beats an
                    ounce of cure?
                    \_ Uhm, it currently exists in other countries where they
                       have already killed millions of birds in an attempt to
                       contain it which has failed.  Ok, now what?  What
                       exactly would you do as President besides stand on TV
                       and say "My fellow Americans, we should prevent the
                       Avian Flu Pandemic because an ounce of prevention beats
                       an ounce of cure!"  Maybe that'll work.  People love
                       that down-home stuff.
                       \_ Human infections have been limited to Thailand,
                          Cambodia, and Vietnam, not countries well-known
                          for hygiene protocols involving poultry. Prevention
                          by means of strict hygiene conditions, enforced
                          surveillance of poultry for disease conditions,
                          Mad-Cow-Disease level population destruction of
                          infected animals, and strict inspections of imported
                          live and dead birds could very well nip this in the
                          bud. Before you start announcing plans for martial
                          law, you owe it to your citizenry to explore non-
                          military options.
                          \_ All good.  However, it isn't guaranteed to stop
                             the flu.  Like so: poultry farmer in one of three
                             countries gets mutated version of flu.  Farmer
                             goes to market and infects a few dozen others
                             who each travel, infecting others, etc.  Ok, now
                             we have a pandemic.  What now?  You can't force
                             these other countries to follow your standards.
                             Frankly, we can barely get our own farmers to
                             follow our own food standards.  Even if we could
                             control the world as you'd like, a flu can still
                             spread from animail->human->pandemic despite the
                             best efforts to contain it at the source.
        \_ Ask the President to invest your tax dollars in Crucell (crxl).
           They will make large volume vaccine production quick and easy.
           (Disclosure: It will also make me richer (crxl holder since 3.67))
           (Disclosue: It will also make me richer (crxl holder since 3.67))
2005/10/2-4 [Health/Disease/General, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:39945 Activity:nil
10/2    Scientist who saved literally millions of lives is persecuted
        by Bush Administration and convicted of mishandling of
        plague:
        http://csua.org/u/dla
        \_ I can't access it.
        \_ Purports to require cookies; doesn't work in IE or Firefox
        \_ Use this URL instead. It bypasses the stupid cookie detect.
           http://csua.org/u/dld
           http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v40n11/36870/36870.text.html
        \_ Tried this in 2 browsers.  It says I need cookies on.  I do.
           \_ Works for me in Firefox.
        \_ This is way too depressing to read.
2005/10/1-4 [Health/Sleeping, Health/Disease/General] UID:39942 Activity:nil
10/1    Acupuncture: real medicine or bullshit? Does it work and if so
        how? I personally think it's bullshit, but I've never had it done.
        Does anyone think it actually works? If so, how?
        \_ I realize that this is anecdotal, but I know several people who've
           been helped by it quite a bit, and they were not new age hippie
           types who would just say that--this was in mainland china.
           I think it may be bullshit in some contexts, but for chronic back
           pain, it definitely does something when done right.
        \_ http://nccam.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/#work
        \_ I would say it works, and the mechanism has something to do with
           creating pain in one part of the body, numbing your body to that
           sensation of pain, which happens to numb your body to the pain you
           really want to remove.  You are then able to articulate the
           afflicted limb/area of your body, increasing blood circulation and
           relieving mental stress, which is all good.
           It's kind of like when you have a back or neck ache, you take an
           Advil, you can relax again, and by the time the Advil wears off it's
           better 'cause you moved around.  Compared to having a stiff neck for
           three straight days.
           Then again I could be completely BSing you.
        \_ only reason this thing survived is the fact that it simply works.
           however, the system of credential is not well established, thus,
           you really need to get refered by someone who really knows what
           is he doing.  I know a lot of Chinese American who failed to
           get into medical school end up doing this.  Not exactly the
           best breed out there.
           \_ Definitely.  It works, but you have to find the right
              practitioner.
           \_ Can't you use this argument (longevity) for all kinds of wacky
              stuff from tarot cards to Christianity?
        \_ It works, but only in a certain group of people. it's one of
           those phenomena/therapies where it works if you believe it
           will (as opposed to traditional western medicine where people
           believe it when it works). if you go in dead set with the
           opinion that it won't help you, then it simply won't. if you're
           open to new types of therapy, then there's a good chance it
           will. Also, accupressure is best for chronic pain (e.g. back
           pain, headaches, etc.), as opposed to acute pain (sudden
           onset stomach pain), which is why it fits in well with current
           medicine. Western medicine treats acute pain well, but fails
           miserably at chronic pain management.
        \_ I think it's real medicine, but I won't go for it because it's so
           under-regulated.  Basically I believe in acupuncture, but I don't
           believe in most of the "doctors" who practice acupuncture.
           -- Chinese
        \_ A few months ago I heard on NPR that there was a huge sample size
           (n=15000) and the results were that accupuncture had definite
           benefits when used on the knees of those who have arthritis.
2005/9/22-23 [Health/Disease/General] UID:39821 Activity:nil
9/21    A deadly plague hits Warcarft world. Hundreds of dead virtual
        bodies lie on the streets. Blizzard tried to control the plague by
        staging rolling re-starts of all the servers supporting the Warcraft
        realms and applying quick fixes. However, there are reports that
        this has not solved all the problems and that isolated pockets of
        plague are breaking out again.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4272418.stm
        \_ Well you know vaccines and cures aren't always 100% effective
           in the real world either.
2005/9/12-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:39635 Activity:low
9/12    Some vaccine requires 2 shots, 6-1 year apart. When will someone
        develop protection? A few weeks/months after the 1st shot? Or
        only after the 2nd shot?
        \- are you talking about say Hep A? some shots are configured
           to require boosters for longer term protection. so you will be
           protected for a while after the first shoot but if you get both
          you may be protected for 10-20 yrs.
           you may be protected for 10-20 yrs. the exact schedule recommended
           depends on the disease and the vacc type.
           \_ What about b that requires 3 shots? Are you protected after the
              first shot?
              \_ Each time your body reacts to an antigen, some B cells
                 targetting that antigen go into an inactive state with high
                 longevity.  By reactivating them with boosters after the
                 initial exposure reaction is over, more storage cells are
                 created, often with different ways of targetting the same
                 antigen.  So when you're infected by an active virus, your
                 body has a head start in dealing with it.  The boosters
                 give you even more of a head start, so that possibly your
                 body can fight off a virus before there are any symptoms.
                 \- You should go ask an immunology professor about this.
                    Or maybe Peter Deusberg. But stand with your back to
                    the wall.
                    \_ Or wear a chestity belt backward.
2005/8/24-25 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:39246 Activity:kinda low
8/24    Doctor being reviewed for telling fat woman she's obsese:
        http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=59407
        \_ if someone told her she was fat early on, maybe she wouldn't
        be obese now...
        \_ "My doctor told me I was fat. I said I wanted a second
            opinion. He said, 'OK, you're ugly, too.'" - Henny Youngman
        \_ This is sick. Good luck to that fat ass in finding another doctor.
           What the fuck can she possibly be thinking. I doubt there is a
           single person (other than her hired lawyer) who'll side with her.
            \_ The fat doctor will side with her.
                \_ No doctor will side with her.
2005/8/22-23 [Health/Disease/General, Recreation/Music] UID:39215 Activity:nil
8/22    RIP, Dr. Bob Moog, an early synthesizer pioneer, his Moog synthesizers
        made famous by Wendy Carlos (soundtrack to Tron, Switched-on-Bach,etc.)
        from brain cancer.  PS: His name is pronounced like "vogue", and here
        I had been thinking it was "mooooog" as in a cow all this time ...
        \_ Coincidence?  Back away from the Moog.  Back away slowly.
        \_ I had the pleasure of meeting Bob Moog last year. He was a
           thoroughly warm and engaging individual. He will be missed.
        \_ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050822/ap_on_en_mu/obit_moog
2005/8/16-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:39141 Activity:high
8/16    Oregon passes law requiring a prescription to get Sudafed as a way of
        "controlling" the meth problem:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_he_me/meth_bill
        How long will this idiotic War On Drugs policymaking last?  Don't
        they realize all the manufacturing will just move (or is already
        moving) to Mexico, where you can get a lot more than just sudafed
        over the counter?  Plug one hole and thirteen more open.  When will
        they ever learn?
        \_ "While increasing amounts of methamphetamine comes in from Mexico,
           bill supporters say it could sharply reduce the number of home meth
           labs"
           \_ Great, more outsourcing.
        \_ There is a lot of property damage and theft that result from local
           meth production.  I don't like this measure, but apparently it has
           helped in other places.
           \_ Isn't there a free market solution of some kind?
              \_ yeah, how about a "meth tax" where the government
                 takes 10% of every hit, sells it, and uses the proceeds to
                 pay for the hotels and apartment buildings that get blown
                 up by meth labs.  -tom
                 (The funny part is, some people will think this is a good
                 idea).
                 \_ Making meth labs a legitimate business will probably be
                    enough.  How many apartment buildings do conventional
                    businesses blow up? -- ilyas
                    \_ I don't think so.  Free market models presume that
                       people are basically rational.  Meth heads aren't.
                       \_ Uh, what does the fact that meth heads (or most
                          people) are not rational have to do with making
                          meth labs a legitimate business?  Current legitimate
                          businesses are often misused by people being
                          irrational (fast food, etc), yet this does not imply
                          we should make the businesses illegal, nor does it
                          imply McDonalds is going to start exploding things.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ I think that's 'legitimate', man.  I bet that's
                             just a lame troll-hack.    -Benefit of the Doubt
                             \_ No, I think that's how jctwu thinks.
                                Sadly. -- ilyas
                                \_ ilyas, what have I done this time? -jctwu
                                \_ I'm not sure what ilyas is talking about,
                                   so I'm asking him off motd.  In any case,
                                   I'm pretty sure ilyas either mispelled
                                   on purpose, or he didn't know the right
                                   spelling.  I don't think that's related
                                   to why he brought up my name, though.
                                   I think he was just annoyed at my
                                   "fight the power" comment. -jctwu
                             \_ Uh, what do you bet is a lame troll-hack?
                          \_ just your ass.
                       \_ If you get into an argument with someone about
                          whether methamphetamine manufacture should be legal
                          or not, you've probably already lost.
                          \_ Errr, no.  Try the Economist special issue on
                             legalizing drugs for a nice refresher course.
                             \_ http://csua.org/u/d2e
                             \_ hey man, i'm not arguing with you ...
                                fight the power!
                             \_ Parse the words exactly as they're used,
                                please.  To make it crystal clear:
                                "legalizing drugs" = No
                                "methamphetamine manufacture" = No
                                And now the new ideas:
                                Marijuana = Yes, for medical use
                                Which implies:
                                /Some/ currently illegal drugs = Yes
                                Which makes no specific comment about:
                                Cigarettes / Alcohol = Yes/No, Good/Bad
                                Incidentally, what I've written above is
                                also the same as how many, many Americans
                                feel, so none of this is new.
2005/8/8-11 [Health/Disease/General] UID:39043 Activity:nil
8/8     http://peacehall.com/forum/pic/932.shtml
        Suicide bus bombing in China, reportedly by 42-year-old farmer with
        terminal lung cancer pissed off at lack of health services
        Warning:  Graphic images
        \_ So reading articles about this, many mentioned the "rising cost of
           health care" and how health care cost increases are outpacing
           salary increases.  This is true in the US too.  My question is: are
           health care costs rising faster than the quality of care provided?
           If so, why?  If not, is it just a case of our expectations of
           quality rising faster than what we can afford to spend?  --dbushong
2005/7/20 [Health/Disease/General] UID:38724 Activity:nil
7/20    Alzheimer's disease is mental deterioration.  What's the elderly
        disease called that's about deterioration of muscle control, but not
        mental ability?  Thanks.
        \_ Parkinson's?
           \_ That's it!  Thanks.
2005/7/12-13 [Health/Disease/General, Science/Electric, Recreation/Music] UID:38556 Activity:nil
7/12    Bob Moog is seriously ill with a brain tumor:
        http://www.caringbridge.org/cb/inputSiteName.do?method=search&siteName=bobmoog
        If you don't know who he is, check:
        http://www.synthmuseum.com/moog
2005/6/15-17 [Health/Disease/General] UID:38145 Activity:low
6/15    Condom technology has reached a new thinness. Hooray for people
        who hate typical thick latex condoms:
        http://www.003mm.com
        \_ I think that would be everyone. Do you know anyone who
           actually *likes* thick latex condoms???
           \_ How about "Do you know anyone who actually *likes* condoms?
              \_ Depends how you define *likes*.  Sure sensation of sex
                 without condom >> sensation of sex with condom, but I have to
                 give props to the condom for cutting down on the risks of
                 disease and/or pregnancy while fucking around.  I'd say it's
                 a tossup.
              \_ People who have premature ejaculation problem may last longer
                 with thick condoms.
2005/6/6 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:37980 Activity:nil
6/6     Medical Marijuana, RIP:
        http://csua.org/u/c9g
        \_ O'Connor complaining that it's not repsecting state rights?  I'm so
           confused.  Is this the Bizarro SCOTUS?
           \_ States rights are only good if we like what the right is, like
              citizens owning anti-tank weaponry and the government not knowing
              who those owners are.
        \_ Interesting that Justice Thomas dissented.
                \_ Along with O'Conner and Rehnquist (he's still alive I
                   guess)
2005/5/25-26 [Health/Disease/General] UID:37834 Activity:kinda low
5/25    "Experts estimate a fifth of the world's population could be affected,
        with 30m needing hospital treatment and around 7.5m dying. It is
        estimated that up to 60% of humans infected by the [bird] virus have
        died."     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4579777.stm
        \_ "I have here some very scary numbers that I made up.  I really
           think you should give me some money."
        \_ "Scientists are working to develop a vaccine against bird flu,
           but are hampered by not knowing what form it would take, should
           it spread amongst humans." Yes, I can see where there might be
           some issues to creating a vaccine for a disease that doesn't
           exist.
           \_ Just because the big one (earthquake) hasn't happened for
              almost 100 years doesn't mean it'll never happen. What are
              you, stupid?
              \_ Did you mean to respond to a different post?
                 \_ No, I mean you, Mr. Mormon.
                    \_ Ummm... right.  I didn't say it couldn't mutate, I
                       just thought what the article said was amusing.
                       Actually trying to develop a vaccine in advance
                       is probably pretty good research.  I'm just saying
                       your post would've made more sense as a reply to
                       the previous post.
           \_ 1918
              \_ The 1918 flu pandemic was caused by that H5N1 flu virus?
                 Dang, I didn't know that.
                 \_ obviously you know very little about flu virus.
                 \_ Did you ever take biology at Cal? Do you believe in
                    evolution? The scientific concensus is that while the
                    bird virus is harder to transmit than common cold,
                    history and evidence show that virus often mutate to
                    be more transmittable in the future while still keeping
                    the same virulence. Now if you don't believe in evolution
                    or think that praying to Joseph Smith cures all, then,
                    that's fine too.
                    \_ Ha!  You're funny.  This post is just a really lame
                       ad hominem attack.  I was mocking your statement
                       that that seemed to imply that this was the same
                       virus as the one in 1918.
                       \_ One definition of a troll is an information amplfier.
                          The better the troll, the higher the gain, where
                          gain is defined as the ratio of characters of flameage
                          to characters in the original troll.  Generating all
                          this noise from "1918" is pretty fucking impressive.
                          Trollgain=145.
                          \_ it seems like the person who wrote 1918
                             remained actively involved in the followup
                             discussion, so I don't think it can be
                             considered a troll.
                             \_ So a troll is an amplifier with feedback.  You
                                sacrafice gain for stability, with the potential
                                for massive oscillations if you screw up the
                                phase of your feedback.
                             \_ actually, I didn't intend for it to be a
                                troll, just a few sentences on the 1918
                                pandemic and why H5N1 has people scared. I
                                didn't have time to write all that this AM
                                so I quit out meaning to post something
                                later (now).  Looks like I did end up leaving
                                1918 in my rush this morning.  Anyway, This
                                is the first anything I've posted since that
                                aborted post this morning. --Jon
        \_ don't worry, crucell will save the day.  buy crxl stock, buy
           buy buy.
2005/5/18-19 [Health/Disease/General, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37744 Activity:nil
5/18    Mother Nature biggest polluter in Hawaii:
        http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=7753
        \_ "Mother Nature is terrorizing us with toxic fume. There is no room
           for neutrality in the war against terrorism. Iraq, Iran, North
           Korea, and now Mother Nature constitute an axis of evil.
           You are either with us, or against us. We can no longer
           solely rely on a reactive posture as we have in the past. We
           cannot let Mother Nature strike first. As a matter of common
           sense and self-defense, United States will act against such
           emerging threats before they are fully formed. The reasons for
           using nukular missiles on the volcano will be clear, the force
           measure, and the cause righteous."
        \_ <stupid unfunny joke reply deleted>
           \_ williamc, you are most definitely not the humour arbiter around
              here.
              \_ It's spelled humor, you english prick.
                 \_ "English".
2005/5/6-7 [Health/Disease/General] UID:37556 Activity:kinda low
5/6     So infuriating it deserves to be posted again.  US Religious groups
        opposing HPV (genital warts) vaccination on moral grounds.  Thousands
        of womens lives will be saved from cervical cancer by these vaccines.
        http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg18624954.500
        More details from CDC on HPV:
        http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm#common
        Over 50 percent of sexually active men and women contract it in their
        lifetimes, and by the age of 50, 80 percent of women will have
        contracted the virus.  While many cases of HPV disappear of their own
        accord, it is the main risk factor in contracting cervical cancer for
        women.  The vaccines nearing approval prevented infection in over
        90 percent of cases...
        \_ Only sentence I found in the article supporting your claim is this:
           "In the US, for instance, religious groups are gearing up to oppose
            vaccination ..."
           I think parents, not government should decide whether or not to
           I think parents should have the right to decide whether or not to
           vaccinate their pre-legal age daughters.
           \_ Idiotic.  Would you make measles, mumps and rubella vaccination
              "optional" as well?
           \_ Seriously, idiotic.  If there were a safe HIV vaccine which
              you could administer to children, would you say the same?
              Also, another sentence is "Abstinence is the best way to
              prevent HPV."  This is only true if abstinence moved from a
              personal choice to a perfectly executed legal requirement.
              When half of the population are carriers, and carriers are most
              often completely asymptomatic, the only effective way to prevent
              infection, even if you remain abstinent until marriage, is this
              vaccine for now.
2005/5/5-6 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:37527 Activity:moderate
5/5     Britta vs. Pur, round 1. Pur says it filters out bacteria whereas
        Britta makes no such claim. Pur costs 1.5X more than Britta. Britta
        (IMHO) has an acceptable after-taste, whereas I can't taste anything
        in Pur. What are you thought?
        \_ I don't believe that Pur filters (or any filter) will remove
           bacteria. To do that, UV light filters are needed. These sorts
           of filters merely remove dissolved solutes (like ions, etc.)
           \_ There ARE filters that can remove bacteria, but these
              tend to be the exotic ceramic camping ones.
              \_ Can these filters remove virus as well?
              \_ OK, but I was referring to household water filters.
        \_ I just find it so much more convenient to have the filter hooked
           right up to the tap, so I prefer PuR. I tried Brita before
           and it tasted fine. No idea if they've made a tap device by
           now. -bz
           \_ I thought they always had it. I used Brita tap thing for years.
        \_ I'm guessing you actually mean "1.5X what Britta costs", and not
           really "1.5X more"
2005/5/4-5 [Health/Disease/General] UID:37528 Activity:nil
5/4     http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/18/1839
        http://www.crucell.com
        More on upcoming influenza pandemic yet again.
        \_ Yes. I'm not disagreeing with anything in the article. As the
           author points out, vaccination is like any other public
           infratructure, as it is best handled by international and
           centralized agencies. Unfortunately, I don't see the U.S.
           government doing anything (or have the budget for it). In addition,
           there is a trend to privatize every little bits of infrastructure
           in the U.S. Just look at the trend from 1950s to now-- privatized
           healthcare, social security, mass transit, water, power,
           comunication, and in some states, privatized freeways and toll
           road. The U.S. shifts healthcare burdens to private enterprises,
           who are unwilling to invest in infrastructures that have slow
           pay back (such as flu vaccines). Public infrastructures cost a
           lot of money and make share-holders unhappy. In short, I think U.S.
           is fucked.
2005/5/4-5 [Health/Disease/General] UID:37524 Activity:nil
5/4     Fat states tend to be Red states:
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155416,00.html
2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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