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2018/10/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/15   

2013/4/17-5/18 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:54659 Activity:nil
4/17    Just a thought.  Say we select a small percentagle of the population
        (e.g. 100000 people) with representations from all walks of life
        (scientists, engineers, doctors, chefs, plumbers, nannies, ...) except
        bad guys, transport them to a distant earth-like planet with abundant
        natural resources, and take away all man-made objects (machines,
        clothes, books, medicines, all tools, ...)  How long will it take for
        them to re-build a civilization when all they have is the knowledge
        stored in their brains?
        \_ Less than 100 years, IMO.
           \_ history proves that mankind almost always self-destructs
              in a large scale until the advent of nuclear weapons. Also,
              more likely than not, a new disease will come out and wipe
              out a large % of the population. Without the continued production
              and research in diseases, those 100,000 people will be reduced
              really quickly.
              \_ But that hasn't happened since we learned about germs and how
                 diseases are actually transmitted, which these 100k would know.
                 \_ you underestimate the amount of resources (man + hours)
                    to setup a lab, which can only be done in a very stable
                    country with abundance of resources.
                    \_ All you need is soap, clean water and a good way to
                       dispose of human waste. But even getting that going
                       is pretty hard, as anyone who has been to a 3rd
                       world contry can attest to.
                       \_ try to find vaccine for H1N1 or drugs for AIDS with
                          100,000 people, most of which will not be doing
                          research or making microscopes and computers
                          and such. It takes just one new strand of disease
                          to wipe out huge populations.
                          \_ I would be more worried about the ancient killers:
                             cholera, tyhpus, typhoid ferver and dysentary. It
                             is possible that they 100k could be screened, but
                             soemthing would most likely slip through.
                             something would most likely slip through.
        \_ I don't think they would in any reasonable amount of time. They
           might get to the bronze age before they forgot everything but that
           would be about it. Getting to the steam engine from scratch is
           just too hard. Most of them would die off pretty quickly unless
           you included lots and lots of people who were experienced hunters,
           fishermen and farmers. In subsistance economies, almost everyone
           has to focus on just generating enough food.
        \_ as pointed it, its goign to depend alot on the availability of
           natural resources.  Worst case you drop them in an inhospitable
           desert and they all die in a few days.   How fast they advance
           is going to be a huge function of how much of their time is spent
           spent surviving.
        \- It is also possible 100k people isnt enough genetic diversity
           to avoid interbreeding -> propagating bad recessive traits.
           I dunno if there are any good examples of island/isolated
           populations of this size with reasonable medical care [so you're
           not getting people dyning of simple infections etc]. --psb
2011/4/22-7/13 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Consumer/CellPhone] UID:54093 Activity:nil
4/22    Costco is selling "Bluetooth Capable Premium Digital Hearing Aids" for
        $1999.99 a pair.  My Bluetooth cell phone headset is maybe $30 for one
        ear.  Why does hearing aid cost so much?
        \_ Medical insurance?
        \_ Does $2000-your medical deductible = $30?
           \_ How come insurance companies allow such rip-offs?
              \_ They're partnered with the BCPDHA company.
2011/3/31-4/20 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:54067 Activity:nil
3/21    what are these virus phages? Can they be repurposed?
        \_ are you <b>insane?</b> you really want to start messing with
           recombinant <ul>rna</ul> crap when we don't even understand
           the normal virus lifecycle?
2009/2/12-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:52563 Activity:nil
2/12    An AIDS/HIV cure via a bone-marrow transplant:
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491509,00.html
2008/11/10-26 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:51901 Activity:nil
11/10   lolz when your 401k is gone, heroin will look pretty attractive
        http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg23.htm
        \_ Hardly, that crap's expensive!  Now, crank maybe...
        \_ shooting heroin leaves you VERY constipated.  seriously.
           sometimes when i shoot junk i don't have to shit for 2 weeks.
2008/10/14-15 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:51523 Activity:nil
10/14   I don't understand this whole AIDS walk BS. Instead of saying
        "I'm going to walk X miles, can you donate $1 per mile?" why
        don't they just simplify it and say "Give me whatever $ you got"?
        Why make it so complex? Sheesh
        \_ Because charity events get more people involved in asking for
           money.  Duh.  -tom
2008/10/2-6 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:51345 Activity:nil
10/1    Guess that "CIA created it" theory is shot:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081001/sc_nm/us_aids_origin_5
        \_ Someone better tell Obama.
         \_ And why, pray tell, is that?
            \_That's one of Rev. Wright's talking points.
              \_ You're a troll at best, and an idiot regardless.
2008/4/14-19 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Men] UID:49747 Activity:kinda low
4/14    Political correctness over science
        http://csua.org/u/l9y
        \_ I think you have it exactly backwards; the Red Cross' position is
        \_ I think you have it exactly backwards; the FDA's position is
           fear-mongering over science.  -tom
           \_ Oh, classification as high-risk isn't science?
              \_ All blood is tested.  The vast majority of gay men are HIV-.
                 \_ How good is the test?  What is the percentage of men who
                    have sex with men who have HIV compared to percentage of
                    men who don't have sex with men?
                    \_ The test is good enough that the Red Cross and
                       America's Blood Centers call the FDA's policy
                       "medically and scientifically unwarranted."  But
                       feel free to keep digging.  -tom
                       \_ So you don't know the comparative percentages?
                          \_ Keep digging.  -tom
                             \_ "The FDA said HIV tests currently in use are
                                highly accurate, but still cannot detect the
                                virus 100 percent of the time."
                                \_ How accurate is it?
           \_ Maybe they did a cost-benefit analysis of whether the
              increase in infections due to false negatives from a higher
              risk population outweighs the benefit of the extra blood.
              How often do HIV tests give false negatives?
              \_ Maybe you're talking out of your ass.
              \_ I would be astonished if any kind of real risk analysis was
                 done. Just like most things in our society, it is all a result
                 of pandering to the worst instincts in people.
                 \_ Eh, the Red Cross got burned very badly in the 80's on
                    HIV.  People dying from blood donations is not cool.  I
                    can understand why they're touchy about it.  They are very
                    touchy about a lot of other things as well, visiting
                    prostitutes, traveling through malaria infested areas,
                    any possible exposure to hepetitis, feeling even SLIGHTY
                    under the weather, etc.
                    \_ The Red Cross thinks the policy should be changed. -tom
                    \_ African American men are 8x more likely to have HIV
                       than white males.
                       African American women are over 18x more likely to
                       have HIV than white females.
                       ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/onap/facts.html )
                       Would you be ok with the Red Cross saying if you are
                       black you can't give blood?
                       \_ Oh man.  You're asking this on the motd?  Here we
                          go...
                       \_ Your numbers don't really say anything, but I'll
                          wager that even at 18x the rate of whites,
                          it's still not 'high-risk' the way gay men are.
                          If blacks are high-risk, then sure.  Giving blood
                          is not a right, it's not even a privilege.
                          Addendum: according to a 1994-2000 study, about 10%
                          of Men who have sex with men have HIV.  That's a
                          pretty huge risk.
                          http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5205a2.htm
                          \_ That same survey claims HIV among african
                             americans is even higher.  I think that you are
                             extrapolating bad data though.  It's not saying
                             10% of all gay men have HIV.
                             \_ No, the study refers to black men in the
                                survey, not among Blacks generally.
                                \_ I think you mean black gay/bi men.
                             \_ Doesn't it say about 10% of men they tested
                                and interviewed 'who attended MSM-identified
                                venues?' I guess that is sort of self-selected.
                                Go ahead and find some better data.
                          \_ The whitehouse fact sheet says there are ~900k
                             HIV cases in america.  There are more than 9
                             million men who have had sex with men.
                             \_ How many MSM are there in the US?
                                \_ Even so, about 70% of new AIDS cases are
                                   due to MSM contact.  Given that this is
                                   also a realitively small section of the
                                   population, that makes it THE high risk
                                   behavior.  (They also include high-risk
                                   heterosexual contact and IV drug use as
                                   people who can't give blood.)
                http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/resources/factsheets/msm.htm
                           \_ None of this discussion above approaches a real
                              cost-benefit analaysis, but at least it is a
                              discussion about what the real risk is. How many
                              people catch diseases today due to blood
                              transfusions? What would that percentage look like
                              if gay men were allowed to donate? How much is
                              the cost of the additional diseases? How much does
                              it cost the country to have the reduced blood
                              supply? You would have to answer all these
                              questions (and probably some more) before you
                              could do a real risk analysis. Simply being
                              risk adverse is not the same thing. Most people
                              are sheep and terrified of shit that is never
                              going to happen to them, like terrorism.
                              \_ Unless you're one of the people killed by it
                                 or knows someone who was.  But that'll never
                                 happen.  Bad stuff only happens to other
                                 people.
                                 \_ Or unless you're one of the people killed
                                    because of a blood shortage.  Risk works
                                    both ways.   -tom
                                    \_ Is there any evidence that excluding
                                       certain high risk groups will result in
                                       a blood shortage or are you just talking
                                       out of your ass again?
                                       \_ I am sure that it costs money. How
                                          much money? Has anyone actually
                                          bothered to do the calculation?
                                          much, we will never know, because
                                          fear, not logic, rules the human
                                          heart.
                                 \_ If you are that fearful, how do you ever
                                    gather the courage to leave your house in
                                    the morning? I am sure your chances of dying
                                    in a car accident on the way to work are
                                    much greater than any risk caused by tainted
                                    blood. You are one of the sheep I was
                                    referring to earlier. Your masters have
                                    told you to be fearful and you bleat
                                    approvingly, not even understanding why.
                                    \_ Wow, perfect example of someone who
                                       has lost trying to regain some face.
                                       Sadly, you've failed.
                              \_ People are poor gaugers of risk, that's well
                                 known.  I bet you are to, do you think
                                 swimming is a good idea?
                                 Anyway, to respond to the only intelligent
                                 thing you said, if you want to know, why not
                                 ask the Red Cross?  Seems more effective than
                                 trolling the motd.  I know they have some
                                 numbers on tainted blood.  They check
                                 carefully to make sure a donor does not have
                                 a cold, for example.  Why?  Because many
                                 people receiving blood have suppressed
                                 immune systems.  They could certainly tell
                                 you if there is a serious blood shortage that
                                 people die from. (I doubt it)
                                 As for a real risk analysis, I bet part of
                                 the answer is that the PR aspect would result
                                 in more deaths than actually tainted blood
                                 would.  It only takes one case to get people
                                 into a tizzy, and some people would refuse
                                 blood because they wouldn't trust the
                                 FDA to have correctly analyzed and advertised
                                 the real risks.
                                 \_ I get paid to do risk analysis, so at least
                                    someone thinks I am good at it. If nothing
                                    else, I have more experience at it than
                                    most people. Colds are common and hard
                                    to screen for, HIV is neither. I am glad to
                                    see that you are at least starting to come
                                    around to my main point: the only thing we
                                    have to fear is fear itself. And rather than
                                    reassure people, the Red Cross just pandered
                                    to the fear-mongering. So it goes.
                                    else, I have more experience than most.
                                    Colds are common and hard to screen for,
                                    HIV is neither. I am glad to see that you
                                    are at least starting to come around to
                                    my main point: the only thing we have to
                                    fear is fear itself. And rather than
                                    reassure people, the Red Cross just
                                    pandered to the fear-mongering. So it goes.
                                    \_ I see you still can't provide any
                                       evidence to back up your speculation.
                                       The opposing debators have provided
                                       quite a bit of evidence that doesn't
                                       100% answer your question, but does
                                       show that a reasonable risk exists.
                                       I don't want to hear your useless
                                       blather, put up or shut up.
                                       \_ No, they have not provided any
                                          hard evidence for their opinions
                                          whatsover. Here, read this and get
                                          back to me:
                                   http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=4989
                                          "it appears at this time that the
                                          risk of possible transfusion-
                                          associated AIDS is on the order of
                                          one case per million patients
                                          transfused. There is a risk that
                                          widespread attempts to direct
                                          donations, while not increasing the
                                          safety of transfusions, will seriously
                                          disrupt the nation's blood donor
                                          system."
                                          (Page 74)
                                       \_ "The Red Cross thinks the policy
                                          should be dropped."
2008/2/21-25 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Skin] UID:49209 Activity:nil
2/21    There is a sore on my groin.  Is it herpes?
        \_ If you bike a lot, it'll go away.
        \_ I am pretty sure that no one licensed to practice medicine posts
           to the motd. Go see a doctor.
           \_ I think there is one.
        \_ There are a lot of things it could be.  It probably isn't herpes,
           but you should definitely get the sore examined before it goes away
           to be sure.  If you don't have insurance, there are plenty of free
           clinics that offer this service.
           \_ i thought herpes gave you this IMMEDIATE FIERY WHITE SORE
              OF DEATH LEAKING HERPES INFESTED FLUID DOWN MY LEG INTO
              MY DRESS SHOES INFECTING ALL I COME IN CONTACT WITH
              ON THE SUBWAY, but my symptom is this little annoying bump.
              No fluid (yet).  No scab (yet).  Just sitting there.
              I don't know what it is.
              \_ Sheesh.  calm down dude.  It's not AIDS
              \_ You have smallpox.  No big deal.
              \_ smallpox guy nuked my post, but anyway... you could have
                 this:
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molluscum_contagiosum
                 which isn't really that big of a deal.  You might have
                 genital warts.  You might have a couple of other dozen
                 things.  You might even have herpes, which has enormous
                 variability in symptoms.  Mostly, you need to get yourself
                 to the clinic and stop ranting on the motd.  You'll be
                 fine.  Get a hold of yourself.
                 \_ Woah thats gnarly.
                    \_ What, molluscum?  Nah.  Clinics don't even bother
                       to treat it, since it has no ill health effects,
                       causes no pain or irritation, and tends to
                       go away on its own without recurrence.  There's
                       also no evidence that condoms do much to help
                       prevent its spread, since it can be transmitted just
                       by skin contact.  If he has it and he's really freaked
                       out about it, he can get a doctor to freeze the bump(s)
                       off.
                 \_ I used to have this on my lower body (from stomach down)
                    for more than ten years.  It came and went by itself.
                    Neither betadine nor permangenate helped.  Then it
                    mysteriously stopped a few years ago, and I have no idea
                    why.
                    \_ Yeah, it's an odd one.  Children get it on their faces
                       a lot as well.  Essentially the virus is in the papule,
                       and contact spreads it.  The reason it came and went
                       is that molluscum has a high tendency to "self-infect"
                       - i.e., you rub the bump on your lower stomach, then
                       rub some other part of your stomach and pretty soon
                       you've got two bumps.  And like you said, it just seems
                       to go away by itself.  This isn't the same mechanism
                       as herpes recurrence, however.
                \_ My symptoms do not look like
                   http://www.herpes-coldsores-treatment-pictures.com
                   but the 'weird pimple shows up once, then another a few weeks
                   later' bit does.
                   but the 'weird pimple shows up once, then another a few
                   weeks later' bit does.
                   \_ You sound like you have molluscum for sure.  You should
                      get a doctor to check it out, and maybe freeze the bumps
                      off if you're really concerned.
        \_ Sounds like syphilis to me.
        \_ key word: usually
2007/12/4-7 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:48742 Activity:kinda low
12/4    1968 on the History Channel. Don't miss it.
        \_ what was so great about 1968?
           \_ the most memorable turbulent times for those who lived it.
              \_ which includes how many people here?
                 \_ My uncle tells me about 1968. Freedom of expression,
                    free love, free joints. Lots of sex. Oh, those were
                    the days.
                    \_ Sounds very much like 2007.  And I need to watch
                       smelly people do it in 1968?
                       \_ No. AIDS and condoms pretty much ruined the idea
                          of free sex, with anyone, anywhere, any time.
2018/10/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/15   

2007/9/25-27 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:48182 Activity:very high
9/25    So, anyone know offhand *why* healthcare costs are going up
        at 3x inflation?  What is driving this insane inflation in
        health costs?  Are health costs snowballing because more and
        more are uninsured, forcing the fewer and fewer insured to
        pay more and more to cover the uninsured?  If so, is this
        a government-created crisis, because hospitals by law cannot
        turn away those without health insurance, and so they *must*
        screw their fewer and fewer remaining paying customers?
        *Where is all that money going?*  --PeterM
        \_ You are a scientist, Peter.  Pretend American healthcare is a
           natural system.  What experiments would you set up to figure this
           out? -- ilyas
           \_ [serious callers only]
           out?  [Have something to contribute other than a retarded troll and
           you won't be deleted.] -- ilyas
        \_ Self follow-on--some claim doctors are receiving the
           lion's share of the increase in cost as salary.  Is that
           true?  Are we being driven bankrupt by a lot of greedy
           fucking doctors?  Or are they merely responding to
           increased malpractice costs?  --PeterM
           \_ It's not going to doctors who, on an hourly basis, make less
              now than doctors did 30 years ago. Most doctors have had to
              see a lot more patients to keep their salaries flat. Doctors
              say that the money is going to the HMOs. It should be easy
              to verify that by looking at their profits. My guess is that
              \_ Not necessarily, it could be the 'dead hand' effect. -- ilyas
              the money is going to more expensive and complicated procedures
              like MRIs and heary bypass surgery that were almost unheard
              like MRIs and heart bypass surgery that were almost unheard
              of in the 1970s and which are now extremely common. Valve
              transplants, chemotherapy, and the like are very expensive.
              Some procedures have been made cheaper with, for example,
              laproscopy, but there are so many new ones and the technology
              and drugs are expensive. Before health costs were cheaper
              because you *died*. Now medicine can keep you alive for a
              large fee.
           \_ i just heard it was to fund the bureaucracy that is American
              health care
        \_ Hint: what causes inflation?
           \_ Answer: increase in the money supply.  There is more money
              chasing after the services.  Now, why is there more money doing
              this?
              \_ People don't want to die. For most it's worth it to pay
                 $1000/month in insurance to avoid dying when you need
                 that $150K surgery. Some treatments (like for HIV) cost
                 in excess of $1M.
                 \_ I'm not sure I agree with your explanation.  Yes, people
                    don't want to die, and there is more money chasing
                    services, but isn't that because people are living much
                    longer, and, generally speaking, older individuals need
                    more medical care and have more money to pay for it?
                    -dans
                    \_ "need more medical care" = "not wanting to die"
                       No one *needs* medical care. It may not seem like a
                       conscious choice, but it is. Examine how people
                       respond when faced with a terminal illness. Some
                       people choose to go home and die quietly. Others
                       choose to spend thousands and thousands of dollars
                       on treatment that probably won't help. More people
                       are choosing to use expensive medical services and
                       that is why they are living longer. Of course,
                       there is a cost to doing so - a cost that a whole
                       society seems willing to bear so far, although I
                       think we are getting close to the breaking point.
                       \_ Um, by your rationale, no one needs food.  I find
                          your viewpoint to be either exceptionally stupid or
                          exceptionally crass.  Also, terminal illnesses are,
                          by definition, uncurable.  The current attitude
                          toward treating terminal illnesses isn't one of
                          trying to cure them, but of trying to provide a
                          patient with an acceptable level of quality of life.
                          This need not be expensive, e.g., morphine is cheap.
                          -dans
                          \_ You think that we are not trying to treat/cure
                             terminal illnesses like AIDS and cancer? Get over
                             your gut-level reaction to my response and read
                             what I am saying, which is that people are choosing
                             expensive medical care versus dying. Do you
                             dispute that? The reason people did not
                             choose that medical care before is because it
                             did not exist. That doesn't mean it needs to
                             exist. Just because some people have Ferraris
                             doesn't mean we all are entitled to one. BTW,
                             we don't need medical care like we need food.
                             It's perfectly possible to live to 60-70-80
                             years old without ever seeing a doctor.  People a
                             century ago lived that long and longer - maybe
                             not as many of them, but that's life. Medicine is
                             extending lives and that is very much a choice
                             people make.
                             people make. My gf's grandma had a valve
                             transplant at 87 years old. She's now 93. 100
                             years ago she'd be dead, but society said
                             it's worth $150K (or whatever) to give her
                             another 5-10 years of life.
                             \_ Thank you for proving my point. -dans
                             \_ Medical care is a human right. -dans
                                \_ No.
                                   \_ From the UN Declaration of Human Rights:
                                      Article 25.
                                         \_ This document is a joke, and is
                                            even self-conflicting.
                                            See Article 17
                                            \_ Kindly cite a document you deem
                                               to be worthy of your eminence.
                                               -dans
                                      (1) Everyone has the right to a standard
                                      of living adequate for the health and
                                      well-being of himself and of his family,
                                      including food, clothing, housing and
                                      medical care and necessary social
                                      services, and the right to security in
                                      the event of unemployment, sickness,
                                      disability, widowhood, old age or other
                                      lack of livelihood in circumstances
                                      beyond his control.
                                      Your welcome to disagree, but, as I said
                                      earlier this makes you either a) stupid
                                      or b) an asshole. -dans
                                      \_ Figuring out what is a human right is
                                         a problem for philosophers, not
                                         something you leave up for the UN to
                                         define.  Fuck the UN.  -- ilyas
                                      \_ The American notion of human rights
                                         tends to be more along the lines of
                                         what's outlined in our Declaration of
                                         Independence.  Specifically, I'm
                                         thinking of "Life, liberty, and the
                                         pursuit of happiness."  What you're
                                         talking about is guaranteeing the
                                         success of an individual's pursuit
                                         of happiness.  This is a popular
                                         notion with the political left, and
                                         I appreciate that they have the best
                                         of intentions, but their intent is
                                         not sufficient to transform success
                                         into a natural human right.
                                         \_ I'm an American.  What gives you
                                            the right to generalize about the
                                            "American" notion of human rights?
                                            Furthermore, the idea that human
                                            rights differ from one nationality
                                            to the next is spectacularly
                                            stupid.  And, no, I'm not talking
                                            about guaranteeing the successful
                                            pursuit of happiness, I'm talking
                                            about the pursuit of *life*.
                                            Also, line originally read "Life,
                                            liberty, and the pursuit of
                                            property", but that doesn't read
                                            as well. -dans
                                      \_ I'm the pp and I am not the
                                         person who wrote "No". However, I
                                         agree to the extent that a
                                         minimal level of healthcare is a
                                         right. That doesn't mean all
                                         healthcare is a right.
                                      \_ I disagree because I think a right
                                         cannot be something that must be
                                         supplied by someone else.  Since someone
                                         must provide health care, it cannot
                                         be a right.
                                         \_ Well, everything is provided by
                                            someone else. Food, clothing, clean
                                            water, etc. Police/fire/security
                                            is also provided by someone else.
                                             \_no.  liberty can be taken by
                                               someone, but it is not "provided"
                                               see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those things
                                               you list rights.  Free speech, and
                                               bearing arms are rights, food is
                                               not.
                                               see
                                               http://urltea.com/1l4s (wikipedia)
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those
                                               things you list rights. Free
                                               speech, and bearing arms are
                                               rights, food is not.
                                               \_ Apparently you don't really
                                                  understand the concept of
                                                  Human Rights. -dans
                                      \_ What is "adequate" medical care? As
                                         has been mentioned, there is virtually
                                         no limit to what could be spent in
                                         medical efforts. Perhaps it should be
                                         the right to *access* medical care.
                                         (I also don't think the "right to
                                         housing" is implemented in this
                                         country. Maybe I didn't get the memo.)
                                         \_ That we as a society and a species
                                            fail to implement the ideal of
                                            human rights does not mean we
                                            should not strive to do so. -dans
                                            \_right. But the fact that striving
                                              to provide "positive" rights often
                                              results in a net loss of rights,
                                              should give us pause in our do-gooder
                                              zeal.  See _The Road to Smurfdom_
                                              by F.A. Hayek. -phuqm
                                            \_ right. But the fact that
                                               striving to provide "positive"
                                               rights often results in a net
                                               loss of rights, should give us
                                               pause in our do-gooder zeal.
                                               See _The Road to Smurfdom_ by
                                               F.A. Hayek. -phuqm
                                              \_ Um, no. -dans
                                      \_ I disagree because I think a right
                                         cannot be something that must be
                                         supplied by someone else.  Since someone
                                         must provide health care, it cannot
                                         be a right.
                                         \_ Well, everything is provided by
                                            someone else. Food, clothing, clean
                                            water, etc. Police/fire/security
                                            is also provided by someone else.
                                             \_no.  liberty can be taken by
                                               someone, but it is not "provided"
                                               see
                                               http://urltea.com/1l4s (wikipedia)
                                            \_ I wouldn't call any of those
                                               things you list rights. Free
                                               speech, and bearing arms are
                                               rights, food is not.
                                               \_ Apparently you don't really
                                                  understand the concept of
                                                  Human Rights. -dans
                                                  \_ No, I just think mixing up
        things that must be provided (medical care) with things that just
        shouldn't be taken away (freedoms) is a very basic cognative mismatch.
        Certainly everyone having food and medical care is a good thing, but
        they are not rights. You can disagree, but it's evidence that you can't
        reason clearly.  A problem I see a lot these days.
        \_ It seems there's lots of mixing from all sides.  You're equating
           "rights" and "freedoms".  Rights are what the social contract allows
           one to justly claim.  As such, I personally believe access to health
           care and education should be defined as "rights" in this wealthy
           country of ours.  Freedom is an interesting word.  The realm of free
           men.  Hmm..  Check FDR's four freedoms speech.  There's a lot more
           muddiness than you seem willing to admit.  You're treading into
           "what are we as a nation" territory with blinders on.  --scotsman
           \_ Who said anything about restricting this to our nation?
              \_ Well, as you're claiming medical care isn't a right, you're
                 not talking about most of Europe, or even most of the
                 developed world, other than US.  Do you know what you're
                 saying? --scotsman
                    \_ Insurance and gov't funded medicare/aid is funneling
                       tons of money into health care.  The 3rd party payer is
                       making sure no one knows how much anything costs.  Only
                       now with HSAs are we encouraging people to pay attention
                       to costs.  Some of the money is going to administrative
                       costs of dealing with insurance/medicare reimbursement.
                       \_ You think medicare is less transparent than HMOs
                          and medical insurance companies?  How much of
                          Medicare spending would you say goes to
                          administrative costs?
                          \_ Medicare is significantly more transparent than
                             private health insurance plans/companies.
                             Medicare's administrative costs are exceptionally
                             low, i.e. under 5%.  This is all well documented,
                             and can be easily verified with a simple google
                             search. -dans (not pp)
                             \_ Have you ever actually known anyone on MC?  I
                                do.  I'd rather have the opaque HMO/POS/PPO
                                system.
                          \_ Transparancy isn't the issue. It's the issue of
                             knowing what insurance/medicare will or won't
                             cover, submitting requests for reimbursement, etc.
                             \_ How or why is this an issue?  Yeah, insurance
                                could be less complex/more user friendly but,
                                it's not that complicated.  Filing an
                                insurance claim is certainly no more complex
                                than filing taxes, and most people seem
                                capable of doing that. -dans
                                \_ LOL! Re: Taxes
                                   My neighbor is a doctor and when his
                                   stay-at-home wife finally decided to
                                   help out in the office she found
                                   thousands of dollars in claims that had
                                   not been paid to him. There's a lot of
                                   following up that has to be done and
                                   the process is VERY complicated. He has
                                   a staff of maybe 4 people to handle
                                   this for his practice, which has 3
                                   other partners, and his wife (who has a
                                   vested interest in it and thus did a
                                   better job than the staff did) found all
                                   of this mess. Have you ever had a major
                                   illness? If you have you'd know that even
                                   the people billing you have no idea what you
                                   do or do not owe. It takes months or even
                                   years for it all to be sorted out and
                                   even then there's probably still money
                                   on the table that no one bothers tracking.
                                   It's a big game where the insurance
                                   company refuses to pay until you retain a
                                   lawyer (more $$$) and they can have
                                   their doctors examine you and so on.
                                   \_ I'm sorry, but you're just wrong.  The
                                      situation where you need to hire a
                                      lawyer to get your insurance to pay out
                                      is an abberation.  It is not the norm.
                                      Either that or your insurance carrier
                                      just sucks. -dans
                                      \_ I am not saying it is the norm,
                                         but it is common if you have big
                                         medical bills. Have you ever had
                                         big medical bills, especially
                                         from an emergency (where approvals
                                         and such were not done beforehand
                                         and you go to the hospital the
                                         ambulance takes you to)? If not,
                                         you are the one who is wrong. If
                                         so, do tell. I have personal
                                         experience with this and when my
                                         old employer changed medical
                                         plans (to one that sucked) we had
                                         an open forum where I heard
                                         stories you've probably never
                                         dreamed of. One guy was paying $800
                                         per month out of pocket for his own
                                         diabetes treatment *with insurance*
                                         because it was "pre-existing" and
                                         that coverage took a year to kick in.
                                         I think you only know from
                                         healthy 20something s/w engineer
                                         who uses Kaiser HMO to have
                                         bloodwork done.
                                         \_ Oh dear oh dear are you ever
                                            wrong.  I have two navels.  I was
                                            born with one.  I have a pre-ex.
                                            I know how to read an insurance
                                            contract.  What you're describing
                                            is neither normal, nor common.
                                            Please go read some actual
                                            statistics.  Incidentally, you do
                                            realize that pre-ex causes reduce
                                            realize that pre-ex clauses reduce
                                            what you pay as a private
                                            individual for health care? -dans
        \_ It's definitely not being eaten by doctors.  Doctors' costs of
           business, particularly malpractice insurance, is growing much
           faster than their salaries.  I have a friend who just graduated
           from med school and she tells me that her net income from
           practicing medicine will likely never exceed what I make writing
           code for a startup.  To put it mildly, this is fucked. -dans
           \_ She probably will make more, even accounting for the costs
              of medical school, but she won't pull ahead until very late
              in her career. The nice thing about being a doctor is that
              at 70 you can still see a few patients and make $80K/year
              while I doubt you will be coding at that age. However, your
              comment about insurance is correct. Lawyers pay about
              $13K/year for malpractice insurance, but OB/GYN pay about
              $100K/year. Critics would point out that doctors in the US still
              make more than doctors anywhere else in the world, though,
              even accounting for these expenses. BTW, why do you think
              it's "fucked" that you make more than a doctor? You are both
              professionals providing services society wants. I think it's
              fucked that doctors make 3-4x what nurses make. It's not
              like your friend is going to have a bad life or anything.
        \_ Free market efficiency!
           If we had socialized medicine, we'd be paying 10x for lower quality!
        \_ So what it seems like to me, is that insurance policies need
           to severely limit the upper end of heroic medical measures
           they'll cover, and who they'll cover them for.  No heart
           transplants for 55-year-old males with liver disease.  But yes
           to emergency care for a 20-year-old in a car wreck, provided
           that care won't produce a $100k/yr vegetable to care for?
           No, to lifelong $1M/year drug regimens, but yes, to insulin?
           \_ And who are *you* to decide who lives and dies?
                \_ Is this a serious question?  To answer anyway:
                   I'm one of the decreasing number of people who pays
                   insurance and so covers the cost of heroic medicine.
                   Seems like I should have some say into how that
                   money is applied?
                   \_ No.  Really, the idea that you are some how propping up
                      the system with your payments is an illusion. -dans
                      \_ Whose payments are propping it up if not yours,
                         mine, and his?
                         \_ Magic government money.
              \_ It should be decided by capacity to pay. If that's not
                 "fair" then what is fair? Is it worth $100B to keep the
                 Pope/President/your uncle alive? $300B? $3T? At what point do
                 you say "Just let the guy die?". It's unpleasant to think
                 about, but it really comes down to dollars and cents and a
                 life does have a value placed on it.
                 \_ Agreed that it sould be decided by capacity to pay.  That's
                    not the same as insurance companies "severely" limiting it.
        \_ I would say the the standard of care has skyrocketed. All those devices,
           drugs, trained people, complex procedures, throw-away sterile materials,
           operating rooms, MRIs, fiber-optic cameras.  And most of it is just
           accepted as "the norm".  It goes way beyond just keeping people alive
           and comparing total money spent vs. life expectancy. We pamper ourselves,
           and it's in the health care industry's interest to do so.
           Washing your hands and taking an aspirin would probably get the job done,
           but you "have a right to the best healthcare available."
           It's a vicious cycle of madness, and we're all part of it.
        \_ Would any of you all believe that I didn't post my question
           as a troll?  I really wanted to know.  Unfortunately, I don't
           think the motd provided real clarity.  Perhaps I was a fool
           to ask.  The study I Googled (and commented on above) made
           the claim that most of the increase has gone into doctor's
           salaries.  To dans:  I don't believe the economic wherewhithal
           exists on the planet to provide everyone with heroic Western
           style medical care.  I doubt that the economic wherewithal
           \_ Western style medical care really isn't that heroic.  'First do
              no harm' is an ideological core value of Western medical
              education, and this means doctors are trained to be skeptical
              of heroic procedures with low odds of successful outcome /
              medical heroics in general. -dans
           exists to provide even basic medical care to everyone.  It
           seems insane to define "what cannot be provided" as a right.
           And what about the right to keep the fruits of your labor?
           That's in **direct** competition with any universal
           entitlement to any product or service.  We should keep
           "rights" restricted to equal
           opportunities (freedom) rather than entitlements.  As an
           extreme, if someone has a "right" to medical care, then
           someone else--whether he wants to or not, must provide
           that care.  Doctors as slaves?  --PeterM
           \_ To simply put, cost rise is associated with the rise of
              new medicines and new treatments, and American's attitude
              of "I deserve the best treatment." Many years ago we didn't
              have advanced MRI and other expensive drugs which we all
              are now paying for.
              \_ Please provide evidence to support your questionable
                 claims.  When you say 'we are paying for', do you mean
                 'we are paying for through insurance coverage' or 'we
                 are paying for out of pocket'? -dans
                 \_ You were very free to call people "stupid" or "assholes"
                    above for not agreeing that people have a right to
                    medical care.  Now, this guy said that we are paying
                    for medical care.  He's right.  There's no free lunch.
                    Insurance premiums come out of our pocket.  What
                    distinction are you trying to make to invalidate his
                    claim that "we are paying for"?
           \_ Any study that concludes that the money went to the doctors
              is pushing an agenda, because there's no way that's true.
              My neighbor is a partner at a busy neurology practice and he
              would argue all day long about how to make money now you
              have to see a lot of patients (not provide a good standard
              of care), get a good survey rating (translates into
              dropping patients with chronic health problems because they
              complain all the time), avoid research (who has time to
              participate in studies), and probably still make less than
              his dad (who was a doctor) did. His dad lived in a mansion
              in Larchmont and he lives next to me in a 1300 square foot
              house. His dad drove a Jaguar. He drives a Passat. His dad
              built a greenhouse for his mom's orchids. He waters the lawn
              by hand because it's not in the budget to redo the aging
              sprinklers. I don't want to say that I am basing my
              statement on purely anecdotal evidence, but the reality is
              that malpractice insurance and HMOs have eroded the medical
              profession. To claim that doctors now make 3x more than
              before (costs have risen 3X according to your premise) is
              ridiculous. They make less than before just like many of us.
              Let's see this study you found. Are you sure it didn't look
              at gross pay for doctors and ignored that they pay 25% of
              revenues for malpractice insurance and that they have to hire
              2 people fulltime just to figure out the insurance paperwork?
              \_ Doctors made out pretty well in this country *until* the
                 HMOs and high malpractice insurance came along.  I think
                 that says it all.
                 \_ Yes. Now we pay 3x as much for care and it doesn't
                    even go to the doctor or nurses but instead to lawyers
                    and insurance companies. This is much better!
2007/9/4-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:47891 Activity:nil
9/4     http://csua.org/u/jfs (townhall.com, why hide your url?)
        This was all before politicians gave us the idea that the things we
        could not afford individually we could somehow afford collectively
        through the magic of government.
        \_ it was also before it was empirically proven that the unregulated
                                                                   \_ umm. no.
           health care system in the U.S. is twice as expensive as everyone
           else's.
           \_ Everyone else's healthcare is great until you get sick.
2007/8/23-27 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:47732 Activity:nil
8/23    "Infectious diseases spreading faster than ever: U.N."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070822/hl_nm/un_dc
        "It warned that global efforts to control infectious diseases have
        already been "seriously jeopardized" by widespread drug resistance,
        a consequence of poor medical treatment and misuse of antibiotics."
        \- one of the best non-fiction books i have read is THE COMING PLAGUE.
           \_ Second that--and I'll add it's by far the scariest book
              I have ever read.  That's including fiction.
        \_ But the housing bubble will kill us all before this ever happens!
2007/8/22-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:47713 Activity:moderate
8/22    'broad spectrum antibiotics' is my favorite position
        \_ "Infectious diseases spreading faster than ever: U.N."
           http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070822/hl_nm/un_dc
           "It warned that global efforts to control infectious diseases have
           already been "seriously jeopardized" by widespread drug resistance,
           a consequence of poor medical treatment and misuse of antibiotics."
2007/7/24-28 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:47409 Activity:nil
7/24    2/3rds of US anti-AIDS program funding in Africa allocated to
        ineffective abstinence-only programs
        http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=how_bushs_aids_program_is_failing_africans
        \_ That's because they're not believers. Time to send more
           missionaries.
        \_ at least they died pure
           \_ Umm.. obviously not...
        \_ The best thing the West can do for Africa is stop using it as a
           giant social experiment and dumping ground for unsellable goods.
           \_ So we just stop selling them condoms and let them all die?
              \_ The second part of your sentence does not follow from the
                 first part.
2007/7/2-5 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:47146 Activity:nil
7/2     in nytimes today:
        http://iraqwarit.blogspot.com/2007/07/kristof-attack-of-worms.html
2007/6/7-10 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46886 Activity:moderate
6/7     "For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!" -Keynesian economist
        http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html
        \_ Sounds like instead of sending them a bunch of crap, what we
           need to do is actually buy stuff from them. Subsidize buying
           stuff from them instead of subsidizing our own farmers.
           And/or directly employ them to improve their own roads etc.
           Although buying food from them would be Bad. Hmm maybe he's
           right and we shouldn't do anything except maybe set up
           schools (the teaching industry is something they could
           take over later).
           \_ We should send them MS Office licenses.
              \_ Oh yeah they'll be lining up at the trucks for those!
           \_ The problem is that so many Africans are working in
              industries like farming. They need to industrialize. More
              investment in Africa would help. Your idea of building
              infrastructure is a good one. However, I think the West
              would rather give Africa its leftovers than cold hard cash.
              It's easy to donate your old bicycle and three pairs of dress
              shoes you never wear anymore. Doing more than giving our
              castoffs away would require real work on the part of the
              West *and* Africans.
              \_ Cash just vanishes into various higher ups bank accounts.
                 \_ I am not suggesting cash be given as a gift, but that
                    cash be invested rather than goods given.
                    \_ Investing in most african countries is silly unless
                       you are a huge company willing to spent a large amount
                       of money on protection and bribes.  And then you are
                       part of the problem.
                       \_ So you think that, say, Ford building a plant in
                          Africa is unthinkable? Why would you say that?
              \_ Maybe, instead of industrializing, they could simply skip
                 to the part where they have nothing but services and
                 financial industries like we do?
        \_ Take a look at http://kiva.org.  It's a microfinance site that enables
           people to chip in on making loans to people in third world
           countries.  The money goes from kiva to a local microfinance
           company to the borrower.                     --alawrenc
           \_ I've lent +$400 via Kiva, but it seems like a lot of their
              current businesses is moving toward just lower interest rate
              current businesses are moving toward just lower interest rate
              working capital rather than development capital. i.e. Instead
              of "I want to buy a new oven for my bakery so I can produce
              2n loves of bread" it's more like "I want to borrow $500 at
              10% instead at a higher interest locally, so when I sell the
              good for a 20% gain, I make a greater return ... then 6-12mos
              later, I'll do the exact same thing." Whereas the guy with the
              bigger bakery is now off and running with an expanded business.
              There used to be plenty of people looking for of small amount
              like $250 for soem kind of "tool"/means of production ...
              barber chair, seeds, revenue producing construction ... now a
              huge number are for higher amounts just to buy stock.
              \_ This is an interesting one:
                 http://tinyurl.com/2p7w5b
        \_ We could certainly do more in combatting AIDS and malaria, which
           would have lots of ancillary benefits, as well as improving the
           standard of living of millions of Africans. I am not so sure that
           cutting off all food aid to famine victims is the right answer, but
           it certainly should be controlled better, so that it does not all
           end up in the pocket of corrupt rulers.
2007/5/16-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:46656 Activity:kinda low
5/16    Liquid condom:
        http://www.hiptechblog.com/2005/11/28/what-liquid-condom
        \_ Sounds hoaxish
        \_ I hope this doesn't burn as badly as spermicides that are
           usually 10% Nonoxydyl
2007/5/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:46637 Activity:moderate
5/15    Rot in hell, you fucking traitorous son of a whore:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/obituaries/15cnd-falwell.html?_r=1&hp&
oref=slogin
        Falwell finally does something to make the world a better place by
        dying.
        \_ will there be hookers in heaven for him?
        \_ Liberty University is in Lynchburg?  Is that appropriate or ironic?
        \_ Ah, the hatred of the left is always so sad to see.
           \_ There are plenty of people I dislike that I'll gladly give
              dignity in death.  Falwell was much beyond that.  Falwell
              was a religious facist who justly deserves his place with hell.
              Good fucking riddance to a powerful man who blamed AIDS on
              society accepting gays as people.  Good fucking riddance to a
              powerful man who blamed 9/11 on feminism and atheism.  Good
              fucking riddance to a man worked hard to destroy my fundemental
              religious and moral freedoms.  Burn Falwell burn.
           \_ Though the right is chock full of hate--more so than the left
              ever has been.
              \_ Keep asserting it, it's a nice security blanket.
                 \_ Especially when it's true.
              \_ I don't know if you can really say that. "The left" has
                 massacred lots of people over the last 100 years. Maybe
                 you meant to say "the left in the United States" or
                 "the left today." -lefty
                 \_ I was talking about hate, not deaths--but you could argue
                    that the Christian invasion of the New World and Africa
                    was an activity of the "right", and that caused more
                    deaths than the left's recent activities.
                    \_ Well, I am not going to get into all that. Colonialism
                       has probably killed more than Communism, true. But the
                       point is that the left has had plenty of hate at times
                       in the past, so your claim that the right [today] is
                       more hateful than the left has at any time in history
                       is a pretty extreme one and wrong, imo.
           \_ Agreed, as is the hypocrisy of the right.
              \_ Well, hypocrisy on any side.
                 \_ And the hatred of either.
           \_ The left hates Falwell because of his hate, not because he's
              black or poor or jewish or short or fat or tall or skinny
              or whatever.
        \_ You make a career out of demonizing certain people, don't be
           surprised when those people don't like you.
        \_ On AIDS:
           AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals.
           On the Antichrist:
           [He] will, by necessity, be a Jewish male.
           On the separation of church and state:
           The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the
           devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
           And, of course, on the September 11th attacks:
           I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the
           feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying
           to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the
           American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America.
           I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'
2007/2/25-3/3 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:45820 Activity:high
2/25    I hate condoms:
        http://www.salon.com/sept97/columnists/unzipped970903.html
        \_ I think that condoms, like contact lenses, suck because our
           materials technology sucks, and that neither is fundamentally
           a bad idea, and will be fine to use in a few more decades.
           I think condoms will stop sucking right around the time contact
           lenses do.
           \_ On the contrary, I think condoms will start sucking in a few
              decades, rendering Fleshlight obsolete.  Wireless power will
              have to work first, though.
              \_ Exactly! That's exactly my point!  And contact lenses will have
                 a zoom function, see infrared, and have headsup displays.
        \_ I wonder if the author feels the same way 10 years later.
           \_ Herpes rules.
            \_ I've been in the same boat since before 97 (use a condom
               the first few times, give up shortly after cause damn those
               things suck) and I've not had any stds.  Nor has anyone I've
               known.  The big STD fear is pretty blow out of proportion
               if your risk factors aren't that high.  AIDS devistated the
               gay world because plenty of gay men had 100s of partners a
               year, without any protection.  The number of people I've slept
               with more that a few times is pretty low, and I bet that's
               true for almost everyone.
               \_ I code for hobby and pleasure. My chance is 0%. I rule.
               \_ I'm sure you don't wear a seat belt either.
               \_ It only takes one time with the wrong person.
                \_ It does, that's why when the risk is high (random person,
                   no known history) I use a condom.  But really the STD doom
                   and gloom is way out of proportion to the risk.  Seriously.
                   \_ So the second time?  The third time?  I hope you're
                      aware of how many STDs show no signs until it's too
                      late.  And there are others that can be easily
                      transmitted even with a condom.  You're just playing
                      Russian Roulette with your health.  I wonder if you've
                      ever been tested for anything recently?  You could be
                      infected with any number of things and not know it and
                      be spreading whatever you have to whoever you've been
                      with.
                      \_ Jesus Christ you are thick.  It's not a matter of
                         waiting a time or two to make sure my penis doesn't
                         fall off.  It's a question of not having risky sex
                         with people I only sleep with a few times.  By that
                         time I've gotten to know someone a bit, know that
                         they most likely have the same kinds of policies
                         and know that, considering we both get tested every
                         few years, that hey, the risks are fairly low.
                         The fact is if you aren't in a high risk group STDs
                         are really PRETTY DAMN RARE.  Yes you can refuse any
                         risk and always use a condom, but you know what, tons
                         of people don't and if the risks were unreasonable
                         you would know a hell of a lot more people with
                         STDs.
                         \_ The number of women with HPV is estimated to be
                            25%.  HPV is asymptomatic.  If you're having sex
                            with an American woman your odds are 1 in 4 of
                            being exposed to HPV.  And the kicker is you
                            wouldn't even know it and can easily pass it on.
                            Cervical cancer for all your partner, nice of you
                            to share that.  I shouldn't have to explain any
                            further how your choices are extremely likely to
                            lead to HPV and likely several other STDs.  It is
                            true that two people in low risk groups are by
                            definition at low risk for STD transmission.  The
                            thing is *you* are not in a low risk group.  Have
                            a nice day.
                            \_ Someone is bitter that they never get laid.
                               Someone has also bought into the great HPV
                               scare.  How sad.
                               \_ Someone has never lived with a woman, or
                                  has never heard of a PAP smear, or knows
                                  pathetically little about STDs to call this
                                  widely known data a "scare".
                                  From the CDC:
                                  Approximately 20 million people are
                                  currently infected with HPV. At least
                                  50 percent of sexually active men and
                                  women acquire genital HPV infection at
                                  some point in their lives. By age 50,
                                  at least 80 percent of women will have
                                  acquired genital HPV infection. About
                                  6.2 million Americans get a new genital
                                  HPV infection each year.
                                  I think you'd be shocked to see the numbers
                                  for herpes type 1.
                                  \_ Herpes type 1 is a cold sore.  Hardly
                                     something where condom usage matters.
        \_ Huh, the immediate above poster needs to visit Health class again
           in junior high/ high school / college.  HSV TYPE 1 and HSV
           TYPE 2 will both happily in your groin area.  They will
           happily be passed through condomless sex.  It is true that
           condoms dont 100 percent block transmission, but it does happen.
           It is true that HSV TYPE 2 is USUALLY not passed to the mouth
           from genital->mouth transmission.  About 25-30 years ago
           the health prof. community really did differentiate between
           the two viruses as 'type 1 is a mouth cold sore' and
           'type 2 is a cold sore on your groin area' but I will
           state 100 percent no question that all knowledgeable health
           professionals do not believe this.  type 1 and type 2 are
           both herpes cold sores.  You're just kind of unhappy when
           you have an outbreak of either on your groin.  A lot of people
           have one AND two on their groin area.  Fun.  The only difference
           between the two is the outbreak rate.  People with type
           1 on their groin might only get 1 outbreak their entire life.
           The evil thing is even when you're not having an outbreak,
           you can be transmitttablle.  People with type 1 on their lips
           usually get one outbreak per year.  People with type 2 on groin
           get an outbreak every 3 or 4 months.  It all varies.  Type 2
           on lips hardly ever get outbreaks.  Their are some differences
           in severity of initial outbreak.  The good thing is
           Hepres wont kill you.  Have fun.
                                     And as to HPV, yes I know about
                                     pap smears.  But the HPV is harldy
                                     a big deal.  Seriously.  Less than
                                     1 hundredth of a percent of the female
                                     population is diagnosed with with
                                     cervical cancer a year.  If 1/4 of
                                     the population has HPV (the numbers
                                     I've seen are > 1/2 of sexually active
                                     adults) then gee, maybe it's not like
                                     it's on the same leauge as a real STD.
                                     By great HPV scare I'm talking about
                                     people who are sad that AIDS is no
                                     longer as an effecitve way to try
                                     to scare people into abstinance (and
                                     do you remember when herpes was being
                                     used the same way?) are trying to
                                     do the same with HPV.  The difference?
                                     HPV ISN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
                                     Oh and PS, condoms don't really protect
                                     against HPV that well.
                                     \_ So you don't seem to know that you
                                        can get type 1 herpes in your mouth,
                                        which we call a cold sore, but also
                                        on your genitals *and* in your eyes.
                                        \_ Actually I do know this, but
                                           I also know the vast majority of
                                           herpes 1 is oral, and so bringing
                                           it up in this context is well,
                                           stupid.  Then again since neither
                                           my girlfriend nor I have any
                                           form of herpes it's not really an
                                           issue.  But you know what, my
                                           advice to you is live in fear,
                                           take a bleach shower after every
                                           sexual encounter and I'm sure that
                                           will all work out well for you.
                                           \_ Type 1 is mostly oral and can
                                              be transmitted to the mouth,
                                              groin or eyes of your partner.
                                              It is not a trivial event to
                                              be so easily dismissed.  You keep
                                              talking about living in fear and
                                              tossing around direct personal
                                              insults of various sorts instead
                                              of relying on any sort of pesky
                                              facts in an effort to justify
                                              your risky decisions.  Hey, guess
                                              what?  You're not the only one
                                              getting laid in hs, college, or
                                              after college.  Some people get
                                              lucky and stay healthy, others
                                              don't.  I used to think like you
                                              but fortunately I got smart
                                              before I got unlucky.  Maybe the
                                              same will happen for you.
                                              Probably not since there's even
                                              more bad stuff out there than
                                              when I was 'dating' and it
                                              sounds like you're less careful
                                              than I was, which isn't saying
                                              much.  I find it interesting
                                              that you avoided all questions
                                              about sharing info and what
                                              you'd do in various cases if
                                              either of you knew beforehand.
                                              Would you kiss a girl with type
                                              1 oral herpes?  Would you let
                                              her bj you?  Why or why not?
                                        When you or your gf have an outbreak
                                        of type 1 genital herpes I don't think
                                        either of you will be happy to know it
                                        is "only" a cold sore.  And, yes the
                                        fact that HPV can spread even with
                                        condom use should make one rethink
                                        their plan to have a large number of
                                        short term partners instead of a small
                                        number of long term.  Now that you've
                                        made it clear you don't give a shit if
                                        you transmit to someone, would you tell
                                        them if you had something before having
                                        sex or just figure it's ok because in
                                        your opinion it's no big deal and just
                                        a CDC conspiracy to control our sex
                                        lives?  If she had something and told
                                        you before would you still have sex
                                        with her?  If not, why not?  After all
                                        it is *only* type 1 herpes, a mere
                                        cold sore.  I'll restate that you are
                                        correct that two low risk people are at
                                        low risk for transmission in either
                                        direction, but you are not one of those
                                        low risk people you're talking about.
                                        \_ Dude, I had sex with at least 50
                                        \_ Dude, I had sex with at least 500
                                           women before I got married and
                                           settled down. I often used a condom
                                           but by no means all of the time.
                                           I never caught herpes (either type),
                                           or chlamydia, or aids or syphillis.
                                           Not everyone is infected by your
                                           fear and paranoia. Sure I took
                                           risks, but they were calculated
                                           risks, but they were careful
                                           risks and I was fine. Real life
                                           is like this everyday. -!dans
                                           is like this everyday. -!pp or op
           \_ The Author married the next year:
              http://preview.tinyurl.com/yr7zh2 (NYT)
              \_ Correction: She met her future husband the next year; they
                 got married in October 2000.
                 \_ So, presumably she never caught an STD.
                    \_ This is an unfounded assumption.
                       \_ Okay sure. But the presumption that she has
                          herpes today is even less likely to be true.
                                           \_ I find it hilarious that someone
                                              feels the need to qualify this
                                              by saying that they're not me.
                                              -dans
                                             \_ Yeah, I was worried that your
                                                fans might think that you had
                                                only had 50 lifetime sex
                                                partners and stop worshipping
                                                you. (Actually, the real
                                                reason is that someone changed
                                                my 50 to a 500 and then signed
                                                your name to the bottom, so
                                                I changed it back to 50 and
                                                signed it !dans, but my first
                                                answer is funnier) -!dans
                                                \_ You've got a funny notion
                                                   of what constitutes funny.
                                                   Though it's amusing that I
                                                   have achieved psb's level
                                                   of infamy. -dans
        \_ lol there are 2 tenured Cal professors who think AIDS is not
           transmitted sexually.
           \_ http://csua.org/u/i4s -DANH
           \_ http://csua.org/u/i4s -PSB
           \_ http://csua.org/u/i4s
        \_ I know some slutty gay guys who have had unprotected sex as a bottom
           with dozens of partners and are STD free.  Just because you win the
           lottery doesn't mean you will keep winning the lottery, "Luck can't
           last a lifetime unless you die young"
                                      \_ Only the good die young. -bjoel
                                         \_ Don't take credit for my lyrics
                                            you fuck. -bdickinson
        \_ Am I the only one who appreciates the irony of a flame war on the
           CSUA motd over STD's?  I mean, generally speaking the CSUA is not
           the place one frequents to get laid.  I mean, yeah, there are
           exceptions, but in general... -dans
           \_ You weren't here in the good ole days... -!dans
              \_ So, what, you fucked ahm?  lila?  Or are you suggesting that,
                 in the 'good ole days' the CSUA would convert the machine
                 rooms to gay bathhouses? -dans
                 \_ No, I think it is amusing that you can only think of the
                    csua from a guy's perspective. Plenty of women used to
                    frequent the CSUA to get "laid." They would probably deny
                    that this is what they were here for, but the end result
                    was the same. Personally, I dated at least four different
                    csua women (if you use the strict definition of csua
                    member == csua account holder), but I know quite a few
                    women who make me look like a piker. Don't you guys have
                    groupies anymore? -!dans
                    \_ Probably, but I was never that into CSUA groupies.
                    \_ Probably, but I was never that into CSUA herpes.
                       Turn it around to the guy's perspective, why chase
                       after the one or two groupies that all the other geeks
                       are swarming over? -dans
2006/12/19-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:45474 Activity:kinda low
12/19   Libya Sentences Bulgaria Nurses to Death: http://csua.org/u/hqy
        That is fucking horrible.
        \_ Can't really say I'm surprised.  (Wish I could.)
           \_ you know, invading another country is morally so much superior
              \_ It's raining out, maybe you better get back under your
                 bridge.
2006/12/19 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:45473 Activity:nil
12/19   Surgeon's knife may offer hope in African AIDS fight - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/hpi
        \_ The side effect is that it'll be easier to convert to Judaism!
        \_ Castration will almost completely eliminate risk of all STDs
2006/10/24-26 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:44952 Activity:high
10/24   Is this the end of antibiotics?
        http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/the-scourge-of-skid-row/14810
        (Warning, some of the pictures are really nasty.)
        \_ In short, yes.  And this plague of staph is starting exactly
           like AIDS.  First, it gets the drug-users and other societal
           rejects.  Then, it comes for everyone else.  When it's an
           expensive killer of "normal" people, it's seen as a crisis,
           and it is, rather than being nipped in the bud.  Like all our
           other infrastructure, public health is in a state of near-total
           neglect.  Drug-resistant staph, tuberculosis, malaria, and a
           host of others are coming at us, spread in part by insecticide
           resistant bugs.  Idiots in Washington spend trillions combating
           threats to thousands of us and ignore the threats which will
           kill millions of us.  Write your congressman, please.  --PeterM
           \_ How do you figure AIDS could have been "nipped in the bud" in
              this country?  I recall at the time some were advocating enforced
                \_ That was just Lyndon LaRouche
                   \_ No, it was a lot of people.  Either way, the question
                      remains: what would you have done at the time to "nip
                      AIDS in the bud"?
                      \_ Um, mounted effective research and prevention efforts
                         early on instead of not worrying about the "gay plague",
                         for starters?
                         early on instead of not worrying about the "gay
                         plague", for starters?
                         \_ So with billions of dollars of research and
                            education efforts since then, what has happened?
                            People who wanted to engage in risky activity
                            continued to do so despite knowing the dangers
                            and still get AIDS today.  There was no magic
                            bullet that would have done anything of note.
                            After 20+ years of public education there are
                            still new cases even though the number of new
                            cases *should* be near zero.  People are dumb.
                            \_ HIV isn't easy to transmit.  If we'd had
                               clean needle and condom campaigns early we could
                               have lowered transmissability to the point
                               where the infection might have died out in
                               the US, especially with very focussed targeting
                               on the initial high risk groups.  Further,
                               there WAS NO CURE at the time and a campaign
                               of persuasion, "do this or die" might have
                               been more effective.  To this day, dirty
                               needles are responsible for much spread of
                               HIV and hepatitis because politicians would
                               rather moralize than take effective action
                               (needle exchange) for public health.
                               Convinced now? --PeterM
                               \_ Convinced?  Of what?  No.  I'll repeat my
                                  main point: to this today everyone *should*
                                  be aware that certain activity will get you
                                  HIV/AIDS yet they still choose not to use
                                  condoms or use clean needles even in places
                                  where they are given free.  People are dumb.
                                  And btw, there is still no cure, so I'm not
                                  sure why you mention there wasn't one then
                                  either but thats not the point.
                                  \_ Convinced that early vigorous action
                                     could have greatly reduced the impact
                                     of HIV on the US.  HIV isn't very
                                     transmissible:  maybe 1.1 new cases
                                     per existing case, or even less thanks
                                     to public health campaigns.  Even if
                                     early vigorous action reduced transmission
                                     by 20%, there would be .9 new cases of
                                     HIV per existing case and the infection
                                     would die out.  I'm saying that if we'd
                                     had vigorous prevention and needle
                                     campaigns early on, HIV would have had
                                     negligible impact on the US and we would
                                     not have needed the *billions* now
                                     required for treatment and research.  --PM
                                     \_ So now that we have spent billions in
                                        research and the public is as educated
                                        as possible, is the rate .9 or 1.1?
                                        If you can show me something that says
                                        .9 then I'm fully convinced.  Of course
                                        there would still be people coming from
                                        outside the country but I'm not going
                                        to push that as I'm sure it's a small
                                        number.   Either way, people are still
                                        dumb.  ;-)
                                        \_ http://csua.org/u/hb7 (Entrez PubMed)
                                           This is an NIH site.  The number
                                           today isn't .9, it seems, but lower,
                                           .05/yr.  That is, for every existing
                                           case, there is 1 new case in 20 yrs.
                                           That is actually more successful than
                                           I had thought.  Just under 1M in USA
                                           have HIV.  Oh, and yes, people are
                                           dumb, I fully agree on *that*.  But
                                           remember, those *billions* spent have
                                           mostly been spent treating the sick,
                                           not on prevention/education.  Early
                                           prevention efforts would have yielded
                                           a huge ROI, especially since at that
                                           time AIDS victims were dying
                                           relatively fast.  --PeterM
                                           \_ Ok, I'll buy that.  Just one
                                              last thing to keep in mind is
                                              that by the time HIV/AIDS was
                                              recognised and diagnosable there
                                              were already a lot of people who
                                              already had it since it has such
                                              a long infection -> symptoms
                                              period.  It may be the case that
                                              after the initial death toll, the
                                              level of education was
                                              appropriate since new cases are
                                              determined based on test date,
                                              not the unknowable infection
                                              date.  So the high initial rates
                                              were unstoppable and then people
                                              who were uninfected then more or
                                              less did do the right things to
                                              stay safe(r).  It also may be the
                                              case that since H/A transmission
                                              is more likely with certain
                                              activity that the virus was
                                              already mostly isolated to those
                                              populations, thus without *any*
                                              education it might have had low
                                              rates after the initial deaths.
                                              No one can say with certainty
                                              how many more, if any, might have
                                              remained uninfected if there had
                                              been earlier education (IIRC it
                                              was about 2 years that it was
                                              believed to be a 'gay disease').
              isolation a la Typhoid Mary.  What do you figure 'they' should
              be doing about all these other diseases right now?
              \_ Spend money on better public health and research. This
                 isn't exactly rocket science. -ausman
                 \_ And how would that have done anything at the time when
                    AIDS first became known in the US to stop it from
                    spreading?  Billions of dollars of research have gone into
                    AIDS, medical science has advanced, and there was a lot of
                    money going into public education, but no one really knew
                    what AIDS was, some *still* dispute what it is and we
                    are still are the very early stages of being able to deal
                    with viruses of any sort.  What was going to happen in the
                    80's to stop AIDS?
                    \_ Politicians and public health officials ignored AIDS
                       because most initial victims were gays and drug users.
                       If it had been, say, children or middle-aged white males
                       there would have been a much more effective prevention
                       campaign.  Similarly with this new drug-resistant staph
                       in LA.  Right *now* it's afflicting homeless, prisoners,
                       and drug users.  Very soon, like AIDS, it's going to
                       be mainstream, and dealing with it is going to cost
                       a lot more in lives and in money.  Tuberculosis is back
                       in many countries with a drug-resistant vengeance.
                       Malaria's returning, too, also in drug-resistant glory.
                       Remember when life expectancy was 50 years or less?
                       Continued neglect of public health and medical research
                       will bring those days back.  --PeterM
        \_ On a related note, all those anti-bacterial soaps may not be
           so good for us after all:
           http://tinyurl.com/yxa9cw (motherearthliving.com)
2006/8/14-16 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:43993 Activity:nil 70%like:43992
8/14    How do big scientific conferences work?  The media often mentions
        conferences to talk about AIDS / famine / gravity waves / whatever
        that involve hundreds or even thousands of scientists.  How does
        someone get a chance to say anything?
        \_ Don't know how it is in other fields, but at the American Physical
           Society march meeting, which happens every year, there are roughly
           40 parallel sessions 8 hours a day, for five days, with most talks
           limited to 10 minutes with two minutes for questions.  There are
           also pretty huge poster sessions.  Everyone, and I mean *everyone*
           gets a chance to say something.  It's getting someone to listen
           that's the trick.  But it's not quite as crazy as it sounds.  The
           aps has software on their website that lets you hunt for talks
           of interest and generate a schedule for you for the week, although
           missing a talk because there's another interesting one at the same
           time is inevitable.  Conferences of this scale generally suck, as
           far as talks go, and exist mostly for networking and informal
           discussions after the talks.
           \_ Sounds similar to my experience at American Association of
              Physicists in Medicine (AAPM)
              \- The programs for some of these are +1cm thick. Yes, "massive
                 parallization".
2006/8/14 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:43992 Activity:nil 70%like:43993
8/14    How do big scientific conference work?  The media often mentions
        conferences to talk about AIDS / femine / gravity wave / whatever
        that involving hunderds or even thousands of scientists.  How does
        someone get a chance to say anything?
2006/6/21-26 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:43446 Activity:nil
6/20    I'm thinking about getting health insurance for my 59 year old
        mother. I've heard that it costs over $300/month. What companies
        do you guys get for your parents and what do you actually
        recommend?
        \_ I can't help you too much, but beware - my mother who is a few years
           younger than yours pays over $650 a month for insurance.  She does
           have a few preexisting conditions though.  Is your mother healthy?
           Insurance costs for the elderly are pretty insane these days.
        \_ Move her to San Francisco:
           http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/14864194.htm
2006/4/4 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:42658 Activity:kinda low
4/4     http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060403/sc_space/churchgoerslivelonger
        Church Goers Live Longer. Does that mean our Mormon friends
        on motd will probably post long after while the liberals die
        from AIDS, meth, and other illegal substance?
        \_ It's moot.  The religious fundamentalists will out-breed the
           liberals.
           \_ But we out recruit the fundies.
              \_ From their children?
        \_ But they live that longer life in a state of delusion....  W/o
           the religious vote, we would not have had the disaster that has
           been the Bush administration.  But I guess it's not surprising that
           the religious people voted for a big hypocrite like themselves.
           \_ Yeah, the kettle thinks you're black too.
        \_ Doctor: You have six months to live.
           Patient: What can I do?
           Doctor: Well... you could give up sex, booze and cigars.
           Patient: Would I live longer then?
           Doctor: No, but it will seem longer...
           \_ If they're having all those kids it didn't come from giving
              up sex....
2006/3/15-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:42256 Activity:nil
3/15    Hello my pedantic friends.  I wish to get storage space
        for lots of boxes of heavy books, cds, and the occasional
        skull.  I see suggestions of where to store my possessions
        for a year or more, in the East Bay.  The East Bay is defined
        as near Berkely and parts south.  I prefer not to
        cross the Bay Bridge.  I prefer to not go through the Caldecott
        Tunnel, but I will if I have to.  It's none of your business
        whether I am fleeing the IRS, becoming a sex tourist in
        Thailand, funnelling Google stock into debunking that
        whole AIDS causes HIV scam or buying Bolivia.
        \_ B5 > Star Trek!
           \_ I challenge you to GUN DUEL!
        \_ "HIV causes AIDS scam"
2006/3/9-13 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Sleeping] UID:42163 Activity:low
3/9     Larry Ellison to drop from the top 10 billionaire list. Hahahaha.
        That sucker deserves to go to hell. Fuck you Debacle.
        \_ Yeah, I'm sure he losses sleep over it. BTW, how many billions
           do you have? Oh, zero?
           \_ Yes he's losing sleep over it. I used to work at Debacle and
              my boss knew the VPs who knew Larry. Unlike Andy Grove and
              HP founders, Larry is an asshole who doesn't care about anyone
              else except himself, and everyone at the company knows that.
              All that talk with "Oracle's world's 2nd largest software
              company" is just bullshit and annoying to hear every single
              day. Back during the dot-com days Larry tried numerous
              spin-offs on nicely packaged but horribly designed software
              in an attempt to diversify his 1 trick pony, and ultimately to
              generate more revenues not for the company, but for himself.
              During media interviews Larry even admitted that his goal was
              not to create AIDS foundations or help with famines and such.
              His goal in life was to become a samurai and to beat Bill
              Gates so that he could become the world's richest man. In my
              < decade of working there I NEVER saw him working, once, and
              neither did my bosses. He loved yachting, flying planes, or just
              fucking Japanese whores. Larry losing sleep over not being on
              the top 10 billionaire list? You bet he is.
              \_ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/12/20/DD160291.DTL
              \_ http://tinyurl.com/m4gl9 (sfgate.com)
                 \- You may also wish to see: http://csua.org/u/f7w
2006/2/6-7 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:41732 Activity:nil
2/6     http://tinyurl.com/8ujew (reuters.com)
        An injection of two drugs normally used to treat HIV patients
        completely protected monkeys from becoming infected with the AIDS
        virus, U.S. researchers reported on Monday. ... The monkeys were then
        exposed to a combined human-monkey AIDS virus called SHIV, using a
        rectal method aimed at simulating male homosexual contact. That
        happened daily for 14 days and the monkeys also got daily injections.
        \_ It's that what Vanilla Ice claimed happened to him?  He got a
           SHIV in the butt?
        \_ There aren't animal-cruelty issues related to butt-raping monkeys?
           \_ Nono, those were GAY monkeys and they really enjoyed butt-raping
           \_ Not if butt-raping monkeys could save human lives.
2006/1/29-31 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:41595 Activity:high
1/29    One quarter of US AIDS money going to religious groups preaching
        abstinence-only.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060129/ap_on_he_me/aids_prevention
        \_ Liar. "President Bush's $15 billion effort to fight
           AIDS has handed out nearly one-quarter of its grants to religious
           groups, and officials are aggressively pursuing new church partners
           that often emphasize disease prevention through abstinence and
           fidelity over condom use."
           1/4 to religious groups.  There's no % listed of how many of them
           are preaching abstinence only.
           \_ Don't be pedantic.
              \_ I'm usually the first to say this, but in this case that
                 is a pretty important difference.
                 \_ I challenge you to find a federal funded religious
                    group that is doing AIDS outreach and education that
                    doesn't involve abstinence only education in some form.
                    Also, doesn't the idea of a "federally funded religious
                    group" kinda bother you?
                        \_ Did not seem to both Thomas Jefferson or any
                           of a large number of subsequent number of
                           presidents to this day.
                    \_ "in some form".  Any sex ed of any sort that doesn't
                       teach "in some form" that *not* having sex is the
                       best way to avoid a sexual transmitted disease is
                       pretty stupid.  What is wrong with telling people
                       that condoms, etc aren't perfect and abstinence is
                       the most effective method of avoidance?  As far as
                       "federally funded religious group" goes, these are
                       not "federally funded religious groups" in the sense
                       that you're implying they are State Sponsored
                       religions.  Churches have always done charity work.
                       Would you prefer they just stop?  Does it bother you
                       that they run soup kitchens too?  Relax your knee.
                       \_ pp is referring to "abstinence-*only*" education.
                          \_ Ok.  How does that change anything?
                                \_ Abstinence-only education is actually worse
                                   than no sex education.
                                   \_ URL or just opinion?
                                      \_ Here's a study from Minnesota
                                         high schools.  There are many more
                                         like this:
                                         http://csua.org/u/etq --!pp
                                         \_ Your link doesn't say that
                                            abstinence-only is worse than no
                                            sex ed at all.  "That [the
                                            abstinence-only rate] is still
                                            lower than the average rate of
                                            sexually active adolescents in
                                            those counties, researchers said."
                                            Now, the actual report may actually
                                            say that abstinence-only is worse,
                                            since your article includes many
                                            provocative statements that
                                            abstinence-only is a failure,
                                            but the article itself does not
                                            present logic or statistics to
                                            support those statements.  And with-
                                            out supporting evidence, those
                                            statements by themselves are
                                            worthless.
                                         \_ Oh yes - Minnesota public schools.
                                            Where they can help your child
                                            obtain an abortion without you
                                            ever knowing anything about it.
                       \_ Also, I am thrilled that churches continue to do
                          charity work. I don't think federal funds should
                          should be used to support them.
                          \_ "to support them".  To support them doing charity
                             work?  You think the Feds are more efficient at
                             helping at the grass roots level than the people
                             who actually live in a community?  I've seen
                             how Fed & State funded programs "work".  You'd
                             be hard pressed to find an organization more
                             corrupt, slack, inefficient or less caring about
                             the 'customer' than someone who has a government
                             job giving away other people's money.  They get
                             rated on how much money they give away and there's
                             no oversight.  It was pretty sickening.
                             \_ I think you missed where he said "I _don't_
                                think..."
                                \_ I didn't miss it.  I'm sharing my
                                   experience as anecdotal evidence that he
                                   should reconsider his thoughts.
                                   \_ So... you WANT the feds to give away
                                      money? Even though it's sickening?
                                      \_ No, but since they're going to do
                                         it anyway, I'd prefer it go to small
                                         local efficient charities instead of
                                         getting handed out like candy to the
                                         wrong people by the wrong people who
                                         are just pissing it away.  I thought
                                         it was clear that the sickening part
                                         is the waste involved in government
                                         aid "projects".
                                         \_ How about they don't give the money
                                            away, lower taxes, and let people
                                            give their own money to whatever
                                            causes they want?
                                            \_ Not if you believe in charity.
                                               Even in the same town, Mr Rich
                                               Guy is unlikely to know that
                                               Mr Poor Guy could use a new
                                               pair of shoes for his kid on
                                               the other side of town, but
                                               I'll bet Poor Guy's local
                                               religious figure and his
                                               neighbors know.  I don't believe
                                               in large money sucking non-
                                               charities either.  Same deal.
                                               Huge org sucking up cash and
                                               giving out pennies on the
                                               dollar to the wrong people.
                                               Large professional charity
                                               orgs in this country mostly
                                               suck and IMO are even worse
                                               than the Feds because they
                                               pull on heart strings to get
                                               your dollar and then piss it
                                               away.  At least the Feds tax
                                               you by force with no pretence.
                             \_ Cf. Salvation Army.
2006/1/21-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Women] UID:41470 Activity:nil
1/21    The Thailand-US free-trade agreement: enriching drug companies at the
        expense of Thai citizens!
        http://csua.org/u/eq3 (huffingtonpost.com)
        \_ While this may be a very minor point in the overall article, I
           I don't understand where he gets the idea of generic drug companies
           being forced to conduct tests as being "unethical."  Most people
           whom I know in non-US pharma outfits see FDA regulations as a
           major PITA, but at some level at least, see that they usually
           (with a few egregious exceptions) make sense.  -John
        \_ Thailand is being absolutely stupid to sign bilateral trade
           agreement with USA at first place.  The reason why USA was pushing
           for bilateral agreement is because WTO has built-in arbitration
           mechanism thus USA couldn't really get away with all the wrong
           doings.  With bilateral agreement, there is no mechanism for smaller
           economy to challenge dispute and/or violations
           economy to challenge USA's violation of agreement.
2005/11/22-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:40700 Activity:kinda low
11/22   http://www.lao.ca.gov/2000/calfacts/2000_calfacts_demographics.html
        Proof that when the economy is good, more people fuck and
        make babies. Recession=fewer babies, dot-com=lots of babies.
        Human beings are like cockroaches. When you give them food,
        they reproduce a lot.
        \_ Umm, and this wasn't obvious? This is just a corollary of the
           fact that people try to avoid spending money (babies cost a lot)
           when they feel like they've got less of it.
        \_ Only in the short term, in general, long term prosperity
           produces lower birth rates.
        \_ At current global growth rates, we'll have something like 40
           billion people in 100 years, 15 trillion in 200 years ... The
           growth party will eventually stop and if history is any guide
           it's going to be "demand destruction" in the most painful sense
           possible.
           \_ Thomas Malthus... Paul Ehrlich... Anonymous MOTD poster...
              Man, that's a rich tradition of accurate forecasting of
              over-population doom and gloom.
                \_ Actually famine and population decimation has been pretty
                   normal throughout all of history, including recent
                   times.  Witness Darfur, Rwanda, etc.
           \_ Don't worry, antibiotic/drug resistant AIDS, malaria, cholera,
              tuberculosis, flu, pneumonia, etc., famine, and war will knock
              down human populations well before the 40 billion mark.  Hell,
              we might have uncontrolled antibiotic-resistant pneumonic
              plague, too.
              \_ For humanitiy's sake, stop participating FightAIDS@home and
                 help reduce human population.  Yeah, really!
           \_ Do your population estimates take into account that as
              economic conditions improve people become less fecund?
                \_ This is where the "at current global growth rates" bit
                   kicks in.
                   \_ IOW, no.  Thanks for playing.
                        \_ Something will stop the global growth rates,
                           but it won't be improving economic conditions.
2005/11/17-19 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:40638 Activity:kinda low
11/17   The dude who was cured of HIV didn't have it in the first place:
        http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20051116-015251-1581r
        \_ Gee, what a surprise.
        \_ Someone told me that Magic Johnson had been "cured" of AIDS, that
           they haven't been able to measure virus in him for years.  I
           found that hard to believe.  --PeterM
           \_ First part sounds like the wrong words. Second part is
              believable, the current powerful HIV medications can reduce
              the viral load to undetectible levels. Doesn't mean he doesn't
              still have HIV though..
              \_ The guys I currently work for make blood testing devices--
                 they use something called protease chain somethingorother to
                                           \- PCR, sort of invented by ex-UCB
                                              person/surfer kary mullins who
                                              uses his nobel prize to get
                                               chicks and hangs out with OJ.
                 basically breed any of several hundred families of virii in
                 a blood sample from "undetectable" levels to where you can
                 actually measure them.  So while possible that you wouldn't
                 detect something you're actively looking for (like HIV in
                 Magic's bloodstream) it's fairly unlikely, as far as I
                 understand the workings of the gizmos.  -John
                 \_ The plural of virus is "viruses".
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_of_virus
                    \_ And the plural of anal retentive idiot is?  Consider
                       me eduficated, thanks teach!  -John
2005/11/13-14 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:40563 Activity:nil
11/13   First person to be cured of HIV?
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4432564.stm
        \_ I love the fact that nobody has considered three things:
           a) This joker is going to the tabloids instead of helping doctors
              to figure out what is going on with him, and whether it could
              help medical science.
              \_ i don't see where it said he did that.
                 \_ He's refused to submit to further testing.
           b) He apparently hasn't considered the (likely) possibility that
              the second test is a false negative.
              \_ there were multiple second tests but it might be so.
              \_ Or the first one a false positive.
           c) None of the reporting seems to understand or explain provirus
              dormancy.
              \_ it seems that the doctors involved are quite shocked by his
                 status and might know about about that.
2005/11/3-4 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:40428 Activity:very high
11/03   I wasn't involved in the discussion below, but you self-righteous
        do-gooders really blow my mind.  I'm curious as to just how rampant
        this type of (un)thinking is.  It is time for a poll -phuqm

        It is reasonable ...

        to force children to have HPV vaccinations: .

        unless they are Christian scientists or other similar wingnuts:

        to allow parents to make this decision based on whatever beliefs: .
        \_ So you disagree with mandating vaccinations in general?  Or is
           it just this vaccination that is nearly always effective against
           a virus that will give you or your female partner cancer?
           \_ dude, what is so hard about putting a little '.' next to the
              first choice?  Why would I want to talk to you if you aren't
              willing to play along with my poll?  Because I'm such a nice
              guy I will assume that the first . in that category is yours
              and will answer your question soon thereafter.  -phuqm
              \_ I'm contesting your question because it's loaded.  If you
                 can't ask a direct question, don't expect a direct answer,
                 crebbs. --scotsman
                 --scotsman
                  \_ so you have some policy against answering loaded
                     questions? What are you a politician?  feel free to
                     add your own category if you think these don't cover
                     all the basis, but I don't see what is wrong with the
                     way these are phrased (unless you object to me calling
                     C.scientists wingnuts, but somehow i doubt that is
                     is the problem.) If there is some other problem I'd LOVE
                     to see an explanation of it. -phuqm
                 \_ Oh, and you know who I am, and I know who I am, and so
                    do most people here who care, so is it really necessary
                    to keep outing me? (anyway i'm not him)
                    \_ Hmm... Should we tell root to squish his account
                       for sharing it?
                    \_ yes you are. -phuqm
                         \_ bastard.
                            \_ yep. -phuqm
                               \_ Or maybe they could squish you for talking
                                  to yourself...
                                  \_ if that's squishable, then I will have a
                                     tough time coming up with a defense.
           \_ So, yeah, i'm rabid libertarian and - despite the obvious free
           \_ So, yeah, i'm a rabid libertarian and - despite the obvious free
              rider problem - I never think it is o.k. to force a parent to
              allow the government to inject something into their child. I
              don't really care if the person's reason is that he thinks the
              vial is full of little deamons that are going to steal his kids
              soul; to me it is a simple question of who decides: the govmnt.
              vial is full of little demons that are going to steal his kids
              soul; to me it is a simple question of who decides.
              \_ Do you also disagree with forcing kids to go to school?
                 What about the government taking kids away from parents who
                 the government deems incompetent? Just curious.
              \_ If you were to live on an isolated desert island where
                 your choices had no effect on other ppl, then this line
                 of thinking makes sense. However, if you are living in
                 a place w/ thousands of ppl your choice not to vaccinate
                 your children can have a profound effect on the health
                 of other children. What right do you have to ask other
                 ppl to sacrifice their childrens health?
                 As I said below, once you agree to live in society there
                 is no such thing as an abs. right. Think of it as the
                 price of admission.
                 \_ Why would it have a profound effect on other children?
                    The other children would be vaccinated if the other
                    people are worried.
        \_ Once you agree to live in society there is no such thing as
           an abs. right. Every right is subject to some amt. of regulation
           by the legislature/executive. If the gov feels that the best or
           only way to deal w/ a major health problem is mass vaccination
           and they have proof that the means chosen (mass vaccination) are
           the best or only way to deal w/ the problem, then you have three
           choices - go along w/ the vaccination, get the law repealed OR
           leave society.
            \_ indeed. though I fail to see what relevence this has on this
               discussion.  I would also point out (also somewhat ir-
               relevantly) that there are few places left on the planet not
               claimed as the dominion of some "society" or other, which makes
               that last option increasingly difficult. -phuqm
               \_ If this is a major health problem only option 1 makes sense.
                  Options 2 and 3 suggest that regardless of a finding that
                  this is a major health problem, the kooks have some rights
                  that trump. I'm saying no. Any right the kooks have are
                  subordinate to society's interest in the general welfare.
                  There are plenty of places in this world where society
                  doesn't really reach (different than claimed as territory
                  by some nation).
                  You can't let a bunch of kooks run around and not vaccinate
                  their kids b/c anything less than total vaccination will be
                  ineffective. If the legislature finds that this is a major
                  health problem, I'm willing to defer to that judgment b/c
                  the whole reason they were elected was to make this sort of
                  decisions (via advice from qualified agencies, &c.)
                  \_ Well, I guess it's ok so long as it's someone right
                     thinking like you deciding what is in the best interest
                     of society.
            \_ You are skipping forward to the assumption that this is a
               'major health problem'.  Also, no one ever acknowledged that
               drug companies have sold us plenty of crap over the years that
               causes side effects such as sterility, liver failure, heart
               failure, kidney failure, and death.  Don't worry, it was all
               tested!  Yay!  You're still fucked and can't undo the damage.
               I guess we'll just raise taxes to pay for all the law suits.
               \_ It's major if you're a woman.
               \_ I'm not skipping forward. I'm merely saying that if the
                  gov. finds that this is a major health problem, they have
                  the pwr to act on it w/o having to worry about the rights
                  of the kooks.
2005/10/13 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:40069 Activity:nil
10/13   Is Drudge trying to, um, tell us something by making this one of his
        top stories:
        "Suddenly at the forefront of taking sex aids mainstream, conservative
        marketer Johnson & Johnson almost overnight has doubled sales of its
        once-sleepy K-Y brand for the second time in four years thanks to the
        blockbuster summer rollout of a new line of massage oils. And nowhere
        has that success been greater than at Wal-Mart, where K-Y Touch
        Massage oils have hit the list of top 10 new health and beauty
        products of 2005, according to J&J VP-Personal Care Marketing Jim
        Peterson."
        \_ I think he's trying to tell us that J&J has doubled their sales of
           their once-sleepy K-Y brand.  What did you have in mind?
           \_ I think he's trying to say that liberal is the new conservative.
              \_ ???
2005/8/31 [Health/Women, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:39390 Activity:nil
8/31    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050831/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_safrica_rape
        Reminds me of childhood jokes about farmer and razor blades
        \_ It doesn't prevent anal rape.
           \_ Upcoming prison-issue version does
2005/8/16-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:39141 Activity:high
8/16    Oregon passes law requiring a prescription to get Sudafed as a way of
        "controlling" the meth problem:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_he_me/meth_bill
        How long will this idiotic War On Drugs policymaking last?  Don't
        they realize all the manufacturing will just move (or is already
        moving) to Mexico, where you can get a lot more than just sudafed
        over the counter?  Plug one hole and thirteen more open.  When will
        they ever learn?
        \_ "While increasing amounts of methamphetamine comes in from Mexico,
           bill supporters say it could sharply reduce the number of home meth
           labs"
           \_ Great, more outsourcing.
        \_ There is a lot of property damage and theft that result from local
           meth production.  I don't like this measure, but apparently it has
           helped in other places.
           \_ Isn't there a free market solution of some kind?
              \_ yeah, how about a "meth tax" where the government
                 takes 10% of every hit, sells it, and uses the proceeds to
                 pay for the hotels and apartment buildings that get blown
                 up by meth labs.  -tom
                 (The funny part is, some people will think this is a good
                 idea).
                 \_ Making meth labs a legitimate business will probably be
                    enough.  How many apartment buildings do conventional
                    businesses blow up? -- ilyas
                    \_ I don't think so.  Free market models presume that
                       people are basically rational.  Meth heads aren't.
                       \_ Uh, what does the fact that meth heads (or most
                          people) are not rational have to do with making
                          meth labs a legitimate business?  Current legitimate
                          businesses are often misused by people being
                          irrational (fast food, etc), yet this does not imply
                          we should make the businesses illegal, nor does it
                          imply McDonalds is going to start exploding things.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ I think that's 'legitimate', man.  I bet that's
                             just a lame troll-hack.    -Benefit of the Doubt
                             \_ No, I think that's how jctwu thinks.
                                Sadly. -- ilyas
                                \_ ilyas, what have I done this time? -jctwu
                                \_ I'm not sure what ilyas is talking about,
                                   so I'm asking him off motd.  In any case,
                                   I'm pretty sure ilyas either mispelled
                                   on purpose, or he didn't know the right
                                   spelling.  I don't think that's related
                                   to why he brought up my name, though.
                                   I think he was just annoyed at my
                                   "fight the power" comment. -jctwu
                             \_ Uh, what do you bet is a lame troll-hack?
                          \_ just your ass.
                       \_ If you get into an argument with someone about
                          whether methamphetamine manufacture should be legal
                          or not, you've probably already lost.
                          \_ Errr, no.  Try the Economist special issue on
                             legalizing drugs for a nice refresher course.
                             \_ http://csua.org/u/d2e
                             \_ hey man, i'm not arguing with you ...
                                fight the power!
                             \_ Parse the words exactly as they're used,
                                please.  To make it crystal clear:
                                "legalizing drugs" = No
                                "methamphetamine manufacture" = No
                                And now the new ideas:
                                Marijuana = Yes, for medical use
                                Which implies:
                                /Some/ currently illegal drugs = Yes
                                Which makes no specific comment about:
                                Cigarettes / Alcohol = Yes/No, Good/Bad
                                Incidentally, what I've written above is
                                also the same as how many, many Americans
                                feel, so none of this is new.
2005/8/2-4 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:38947 Activity:nil
8/2     New drug blocks HIV from entering cells
        http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200507070204.html
        "[T]the drug sticks to a protein called CCR5 that acts as an entrance
         into human cells for the AIDS virus. When the new drug becomes
         attached to the protein, it can prevent HIV from entering, and thus
         stop the virus from spreading."
        What does this protein do when it's not being used as a gateway?
                 \_ I don't get it, why was this posted?
                    \_ I'm curious to see what effect blocking this protein
                       would have on a human being. -op
        \_ [reply moved to correct thread]
2005/8/1-3 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:38907 Activity:nil
8/1     Does anyone here participate in FightAIDS@Home?  I've been running it
        for about a year.  But its web page never changes except the timestamp,
        and my mail to support@fightaidsathome.org always bounces back.  Is the
        project real?
        \_ AIDS KILLS FAGS DEAD!!11!!!! --Fred Phelps
           \_ But it kills others too.
                \_ Collateral damage
                   \_ Heh.  When/if an effective HIV vaccine becomes available,
                      you can bet your bottom dollar the Christian Right will
                      opppose it.
                      \_ I have a hidden wish that all creationists who want
                         the state to teach it to children are struck by a
                         drug-resistent bacterial infection.
                         \_ It's God's will whether an antibiotic be found to
                            save the children.
                         \_ Why hidden?!
                      \_ I consider myself a Christian conservative and do not
                         oppose an HIV vaccine.  It could do wonders in Africa.
                         -emarkp
                         \_ But they only get AIDS when they commit adultery!
                            \_ Or get raped.  Go away troll. -emarkp
                               \_ Raped? That doesn't stop the abortion crowd.
                                  Anyway she was asking for it. Women should
                                  be completely covered outside and be
                                  accompanied by a male at all times. Go ahead
                                  and fight AIDS, it's merely the warning!
                                  \_ The trolls are really dumb today.  You
                                     must be more subtle in your baiting,
                                     Daniel-san.
                                  \_ You are aware that in Africa it's a widely
                                     held belief that having sex with a virgin
                                     will cure you of AIDS?  And that children
                                     are being raped because of this?
                                     \_ I take it back, I guess people ARE
                                        dense enough to fall for this
                                        trollbait. +1 for the troll.
2005/5/5-6 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:37527 Activity:moderate
5/5     Britta vs. Pur, round 1. Pur says it filters out bacteria whereas
        Britta makes no such claim. Pur costs 1.5X more than Britta. Britta
        (IMHO) has an acceptable after-taste, whereas I can't taste anything
        in Pur. What are you thought?
        \_ I don't believe that Pur filters (or any filter) will remove
           bacteria. To do that, UV light filters are needed. These sorts
           of filters merely remove dissolved solutes (like ions, etc.)
           \_ There ARE filters that can remove bacteria, but these
              tend to be the exotic ceramic camping ones.
              \_ Can these filters remove virus as well?
              \_ OK, but I was referring to household water filters.
        \_ I just find it so much more convenient to have the filter hooked
           right up to the tap, so I prefer PuR. I tried Brita before
           and it tasted fine. No idea if they've made a tap device by
           now. -bz
           \_ I thought they always had it. I used Brita tap thing for years.
        \_ I'm guessing you actually mean "1.5X what Britta costs", and not
           really "1.5X more"
2005/4/19-20 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:37272 Activity:nil
4/19    "Freebird!"
        http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111102511477881964,00.html
2005/4/5 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:37073 Activity:kinda low
4/5     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4413151.stm
        Sorry partha, no more brothels for you.
        \_ The Partha imports his own to South Asia.
2005/1/4-5 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:35539 Activity:moderate
1/4     Ranking of govt. aids:
        #1: Japan       $500m
        #2: Australia   $450m
        #3: US          $350m
        \- this really understates what the US is doing with it's
           navy and such. also japan has a self-interest movtive
           i would guess in getting aceh back on line. they get
           some amount of natural gas and other resources from the
           Aceh area directly.
           \_ What are the Russians doing?
                \_ they're busy doing insane things nationalizing
                   their gas/oil company and selling a chunk of it to china.
                   \_ agreed. Maybe they should do the sane and smart thing
                      like giving private enterprizes more power because
                      they run the industry more efficiently. In fact
                      they should just follow the Enron model-- ethics
                      aside, it was a very efficient and profitable model.
                      Produce less, make more. -conservative who totally
                                                trusts private enterprizes
                   \_ [troll deleted]
                \_ pretend the US only has one oil company.  now
                   nationalized it.  big undertaking!
                      \_ Welcome to the ownership society.
        \_ Japan is trying to buy his way to a permanent seat in security
           concil in United Nation.  So, Japan's contribution is not really
           an altrustic aid.
2004/12/7-8 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:35201 Activity:insanely high
12/7   I want to make a donation to the school. In the past, I have always
        donated to the Engineering School. Anyone have any other suggestions?
        http://colt.berkeley.edu/urelgift/index.html
        \_ I would suggest donating to Professor Dusenberg, unfairly hounded
           out of his NIH grants by the scientific establishment for daring
           to challange the orthodoxy on AIDS, but I cannot seem to find
           him on the campus website anymore. Did he finally get run all
           the way off campus? What happened to him?
           \_ Try spelling his name right, troll.  -tom
              \_ Oh, okay! Douchebag! There you go!
                 \_ Could someone give some context to this?
        \_ prof. duesberg is a MCB prof at ucb who says AIDS is not
           caused by HIV, AIDS is caused by recreational and
           other drugs prescribed by doctors
           to treat HIV.  he's got a website, there are plenty of
           "duesberg is a menace" websites.  - danh
           \_ Dan, use motdedit! you stomped on my post.
                \_ Duesberg. He is still teaching, good. Dusenberg on google
                   gives many hits. Donate to Prof Duesberg's lab, he is
                   still trying to do science on very limited money, since
                   he is frozen out of the grant process by a vengeful
                   scientific community.
                   \_ I thought the whole Aids-Virus Myth thing has been
                      debunked.  You actually believe his theories?
                    \_ No, but I am not really qualified to judge his work
                       in any case, since I am not a biologist. I do think
                       he has been treated poorly by the scientific
                       community.
                       \_ Well, I am, and he's just full of shit. Duesberg
                          deserved what he got. It's like someone insisting
                          that the earth is flat.
                          \_ Duesberg wants smoking gun evidence, with the
                             videotape of WMD stockpiles in multiple Iraqi
                             complexes and a nuclear test.  He has against him
                             a massive amount of circumstantial evidence -
                             much more than that from Iraq WMDs, and from
                             those without as much of an agenda as BushCo.
                             The scientific establishment != the CIA, BushCo.
                             \_ yet he touts his drug-induced AIDS theory
                                with much much less than smoking gun evid.
                           \_ So even though he had done great work in the
                              past and continues to do great work, he
                              should be denied funding because he
                              disagrees with the scientific orthodoxy
                              on one small matter? I think you have
                              a really messed up idea of how the
                              scientific process should work.
                            \_ why do you think he did great work?  -tom
                               \_ Maybe I'm inclined to give him the benefit
                                  of the doubt on this because he is a
                                  tenured Berkeley professor in the sciences?
                                  Since you have no CV in anything, maybe
                                  you should not be so judgmental.  This is
                                  why so many people think you are an asshole.
                                  \_ How is my comment judgemental?  pp
                                     made an unfounded assertion; I didn't
                                     assert anything.  Asshole.  -tom
                                  \_ He is also a member of the National
                                     Academy of Science (found this on his
                                     web page) and his work on retroviruses
                                     and oncogenes is very well known (I work
                                     in immunology).
                      \_ It doesn't really matter anyway.  Duesberg agrees that
                       something in the blood of an AIDS patient will give
                       a healthy person AIDS.  The scientific community says
                       it's HIV - Duesberg says it's AZT.  Whatever - you'll
                       still get AIDS anyway.
                       \_ I don't follow the AIDS 'controversies' very much,
                          but it wouldn't surprise me if some folks
                          classified various nasty diseases and malnutrition
                          syndroms in Africa (which are less 'glamorous' than
                          AIDS) to get AIDS funding. -- ilyas
                          \_ I guess you are saying it's possible but aren't
                             saying whether it's true or not.
                             \_ I don't know, but being familiar with charity
                                fraud, I d say it's pretty likely. -- ilyas
                       \_ So if you have HIV, but you aren't taking any drugs
                          like AZT, feel free and have as much unprotected
                          sex as you want.
                          \_ No.  You must wear a condom to protect yourself
                             from that bad AZT in your partner's sexual fluids.
        \_ Donate to the CSUA for hardware upgrades!
2004/11/25 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:35076 Activity:high
11/25   Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons, destined
        to be shit out through wholesome American guts.
        Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison.
        Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger.
        Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin leaving the
        carcasses to rot.
        Thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes.
        Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until
        the bare lies shine through.
        Thanks for the KKK.
        For nigger-killin' lawmen, feelin' their notches.
        For decent church-goin' women, with their mean, pinched, bitter,
        evil faces.
        Thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers.
        Thanks for laboratory AIDS.
        Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs.
        Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind the own business.
        Thanks for a nation of finks.
        Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!
        You always were a headache and you always were a bore.
        Thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and greatest
        of human dreams.
        \_ I just looked up "claptrap".  -John
        \_ Why do you hate America?
        \_ If you don't like it, you can get OUUT!
           \_ And be subject to US foreign policy?  No way.
           \_ "We're all in this together, kid." - Archibald Tuttle
2004/11/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:34826 Activity:high
11/11   Arafat was... Gay?
        http://www.jnewswire.com/library/article.php?articleid=350
        \_ I think he really died of BEING OLD
        \_ this is first time you have heard this!?  You live under
           a rock?
        \_ love how they write Palestinian in quotes. "So-called 'leader'
           of 'nation' mourned by 'people'."
        \_ Hearing it from an Israeli source makes it less believable.
           \_ No, hearing it from something that sounds like the Israeli
              equivalent of the Arch-freeper makes it less believable.
              \_ I thought it read more like the New York Post.
                 \_ NYP is Nobel literature compared to this shit.  It's more
                    like the pro-muslim/pro-Israeli nutjobs at Sather Gate.
                    \_ Just for the hell of it, I went and read the NYP's
                       article from today on Arafat for comparison, and
                       you're absolutely right.  This is far kookier.
        \_ "medical experts believe the blood-soaked Muslim terror
            chief is dying from complications related to the AIDS
            virus." Any paper use this kind of language cannot be trusted.
            \_ Heh, that's why I posted it.  I thought it was funny.
2004/11/2 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:34523 Activity:very high
11/1    You know what I think? The Israelis somehow injected a weird
        untraceable virus into Arafat. It's too sudden to be natural:
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/arafat.health.ap/index.html
        \_ Why bother with untraceability?  Israelis are going to be blamed
           regardless.
        \_ Probably has AIDS...
           \_ Camels carry AIDS?
              \_ Lovely, lovely.
        \_ So a very old guy who has had a very stressful life falls ill and
           it is the Jews' fault?  I'm not surprised you would blame the Jews.
           The Nazis, the Soviets, the Spanish Inquisitors, the radical Islamic
           fascists and many others have blamed the Jews for their own problems
           over the course of time.  You're in good company.
           \_ Bush did it!
2004/8/17-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32972 Activity:very high
8/17    I live in a top floor apt that gets very hot (no AC) and I recently
        mail ordered a bunch of condoms that is used very slowly.  Is it ok to
        store them in the fridge (not freezer) too keep them from the heat?
        \_ if some hoser on the motd gives you advice and it's wrong,
           you get aids or get someone pregnant.  don't be a tard.
           call up the condom company and ask them.
           \_ Seriously. I don't think this was a real request, or if it
              is, dude, I have this new thing called a search engine to
              show you.
              \_ Fine.  you're probably right, it's just a troll.  But since
                 you put it like that, I hereby formally challenge you to
                 convincingly answer this using a "seach engine."
        \_ Why small?
2004/8/11 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32839 Activity:high
8/11    Bush-Meat might give you a new variant of SIV, the primate version of
        HIV: [altered for clarity since idiot OP doesn't know what AIDS is]
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996239
        \_ Then don't eat Bush's meat.
        \_ Tim Russert had better get tested, quick!
2004/8/6 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32736 Activity:moderate
8/6     Journalism at its best: the closest a long article about "Links between
        Prison and AIDS affecting Blacks" gets to prison rape is "Correctional
        health experts say the rampant sexual activity among prisoners
        depicted in television shows like the HBO prison series \"Oz\" is
        exaggerated. But sex in prison certainly occurs."
                http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/national/06aids.html?hp
        \_ Two friends of mine argued a case at a debate tournament that
           the way to prevent prison rape was soap on a rope... -John
           \_ DId they win?
           \_ What does soap on a rope do?
              \_ Harder to accidentally drop.  Bending over to pick up your
                 soap in a communal shower leads to...
                 \_ Why not just bend at the knees?
                    \_ If you prefer oral to rear-entry, sure.
2004/7/21-22 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Recreation/Media] UID:32411 Activity:insanely high
7/21    Does anyone else think that the 1950's movie beuties were better
        looking than the modern oversexed plastic surgery display cases we're
        bombarded with today?  And I'm not just talking Audrey Hepburn.
        \_ The SF/BA is not the entire world, neither is it all of the US
           even.  Unfortunately, the movie starlettes are picked by contacts
           and what their willing to do... not by any means of grace or
           beauty.
           \_ Huh?  I don't know what SF/BA has to do with the topic.  I
              was only refering to movie stars.  (Well, I guess models
              too, but I don't have many pictures of 1950's models.)
        \_ miss the days when Blacks can only sits at back of bus, huh?
           \_ Now *this* is a troll and way off topic, too.
           \_ Hi stupid troll!  (Was supposed to be here)
        \_ yes, more natural beauty, more brains, more taste, more patriotic
           \_ more patriotic? more brains? more taste? Were you alive in the
              1950s or do you just have a received stereotypical image of them
              via other people's nostalgia? I think I've just been trolled,
              although I agree on the natural beauty part.  Marilyn Monroe
              would have been called "fat" by today's standards.
        \_ I remember seeing Rear Window for the first time three years ago
           and walking out thinking that Grace Kelly was way more beautiful
           than any current hollywood star.
        \_ in the 50s people like Rosey O' Donald would never have
           any chance of appearing on TV. She would have been discriminated.
           Is that the kind of world you'd prefer living in?
           \_ As nice a thought as that is, it's not true.  Go watch some
              50's TV, there's some dang ugly people on there.
           \_ A world without a Rosie?  Is that possible?  PLEASE?!
           \_ and Marilyn Monroe could never get a role in a movie today.
        \_ Stepford Wives. Nice obedient wives who stay home, cook, clean,
           and take care of the children... unlike modern bitches of today.
           \_ Did I say something about wives?  I just refering to the
              fact that women in old movies are attractive, and the chicks
              in flics today don't even look human, it's kinda creepy.
              \_ I agree 100% about the women in a lot of today's media
                 looking bizarre and inhuman almost, but keep in mind that
                 a LOT of that is due to digital retouching techniques that
                 have gotten out of hand.  In fact Britney (for instance)
                 is rather ordinary looking without the Photoshop army working
                 on her.
                 \_ Tastes have changed. Instead of Rita Hayworth or Liz
                    Taylor we have Jennifer Garner. Muscles and fitness
                    take precedence over classic good looks. We are, I
                    think, more concerned with the body than the face.
                    Maybe Marilyn Monroe started that. Not that Liz Taylor
                    had a bad body, but Jennifer Aniston and J Lo are more
                    about body than about overall good-looks. Also, styles
                    have changed. Everyone looks bad in a midriff and
                    jeans. Women (and men) then had more style in clothes,
                    hair, and so on.
              \_ Stepford wives=1950s women
                 \_ Get over it.  He's talking about the purely physical.  The
                    op hasn't said one word about your stepford wives crap. !op
        \_ This is general perception of the decades:
           1950s: post WW2, jobs even for HS graduates, lots of jobs,
                  great burger/fries/milk shakes joints. Lots of land,
                  suburbia expansion. Sex. Children :) :) :) :) :) :)
           1960s: TV. Cars. Antibiotics/immunizations. Pills.
                  Birth-control pills. FEEL GOOD. :) :) :) :)
           1970s: Gas crunch. Highway jam. :(
           1980s: Pro-corporation era. Work work work. Workers
                  outsourced. Japanese threat. Work work work. :( :(
           1990s: discovery of AIDS. Population boom, highway
                  congestion, suburbia crunch. Work work work :( :(
           2000s: more suckiness to come.
           \_ Dude, your cute little list is one of the shallowest things I've
              seen in some time.  Aids in the 90's?  Vietnam?  60's counter
              culture?  Cold War/Threat of Nuclear armageddon?  Apartheid?
              There are so many more impactful things to talk about both
              historically and culturally.  I suspect you're either very
              sheltered or very young.
           \_ Erm..  Your "discovery of AIDS" is a tad off.
           \_ Interesting.  Do you think the people actually living through
              your :) decades actually felt that way?  Perhaps some of them
              did, but I know that my parents who actually lived through
              them would have a very different opinion than you.  Don't fall
              prey to the declining view of history.  In many ways we have
              made tremendous progress over the last 50 years.  Ask a gay
              or a black person if they want to go back to the '50s, for
              instance.
              \_ I won't call that progress. Blacks should go back to Africa

                 and gays should be killed. It would make the US a better
                 place. If you want proof, just come down the project.
                 But wait, you are writing this from the comfort of your
                 home in an expensive where you don't see those fucking blacks
                 do you?
                 \_ Worst.  Troll Attempt.  Ever.
                    \_ You. Write. Like. This. Too. Much. .. Please. Stop.
                       \_ Clue--
        \_ While I agree that most of the starlets today aren't very
           attractive, there are some exceptions (personally I like
           Catherine Zeta-Jones). I also think that Movies these days
           rely too much on cg and sex rather than on writing and
           story development. Not that cg is bad, I mean where would
           Star Trek be w/o cg? :-)
           \_ YAY STAR TREK MOVIE GUY!  --star trek movie guy #1 fan
2004/7/21 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32399 Activity:insanely high
7/21    Bible aids in Prison Beer Run:
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/20/brf.inmates.beer.run.ap/index.html
        This is funny.  They absolutely should not be charged with escape,_\
          that is crap.  (unless they were caught on the outside, which does
          not seem to be the case).
          \_ Why the hell not?  Escape is escape even if they came back.  And
             why are our prisons so cushy that escapees come back?
        \_This is funny.  They absolutely should not be charged with escape,
          that is crap.  (unless they were caught on the outside, which does
          not seem to be the case).
2004/7/17-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:32334 Activity:moderate
7/16    What's this email supposedly from mconst sent to jobs@csua?  Which
        virus is this?
        \_ Why does it matter which virus it is?
           \_ It doesn't.  I'm just curious.
              \_ Worm.Bagle.AG detected by ClamAV
2004/7/13 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:32249 Activity:insanely high
7/12    Good thing the FBI is protecting us from those dangerous Art
        Professors.
        http://www.caedefensefund.org
        \_ Cue the motd brain damaged with all sorts of justifications for
           this.
        \_ Can someone save us from reading useless sarcastic URL descriptions
           and just give a real link summary instead?  No one has time to read
           every stupid untitled URL on the motd.
                \_ Some prof. got arrested for using poor judgement when
                   dealing w/ some bacteria or something. The link is some
                   sort of propaganda page.
                   \_ He didn't use poor judgment.  The bacteria were harmless
                      and he used them in art.  He called the police because
                      his wife died (nothing to do with the bacteria) and the
                      police saw his lab, freaked out, decided he was a
                      terrorist, confiscated everything, etc.  The really
                      sad thing is once they realized they had made total
                      fools of themselves they decided the best thing to do
                      was go full steam ahead and searched for anything they
                      could to nail the guy.  Eventually they found that he
                      had misrepresented himself to get some of the supplies
                      (claiming he was a lab of some sort), supplies that
                      could not be used for bioterrorism BTW, and ended up
                      charging the guy with fraud.  Wife dies, call police,
                      end up being charge with terrorism for you choice in
                      art medium.  Yay america.
                        \_ What kind of an idiot makes art w/ a bacteria?
                           I can understand if you were a jr/hs bio teacher
                           and you had that stuff in your house, but the
                           dude was an art prof or something. Should have
                           had the common sense to stick to paint/pastel.
                           \_ Bacteria seems useful if your work is a critique
                              of biotechnology and genetic engineering.
                              This is art not in the sense of "something pretty
                              to hang on a wall" but art as social critique.
                           \_ Under the Bush Regime, artists will only
                              be permitted to use paint and pastels.
                              All others will be incarcerated.
                           \_ No really.  You can't be that stupid, you're
                              just trolling.
        \_ this guy is a genius, now that gives me an idea to put
        small pox virus in my painting and send it as a gift to the
        president.
        \_ except for the fact the bacteria he was using were totally harmless
        \_ Look, art has become so degenerate in the 20th century, thanks to
           the liberal elites, that it no longer serves any moral purpose and
           ceases to be understandable by people, including the artists
           themselves.  Whether a terrorist or not, I am glad this government
           is finally trying to bring justice to arts and stop the outrage.
           \_ You're trolling, right?  Very little art has ever served a moral
              purpose.  It's purpose has been to make us think or feel a
              way.  Do you honestly think the government should be deciding
              what art is allowed  to exist?  There's some guys in Afghanistan
              who felt the same way...
              \_ The guys in Afghanistan knew no art.  They were all illterate.
                 Fiddling with bacteria is not an art.  It is just lame.
                 Have you visited the national gallery in DC?  That's art.
           \_ While I'm no supporter of all the stuff that wack jobs produce,
              art is about change.  I think using bacteria as a medium could
              produce some great art about life in the 21st century-- biotech,
              genetic engineering, the fact that a tiny microbe could kill every
              one of us.  Have you ever met somebody who thinks his hammer*
              is the only tool anyone needs?  Same thing with art- you have to
              use the medium that's best for what you're doing.
                * You can substitute "programming language" or "Linux distro"
                  for hammer here if that helps.
        \_ Wow, this is scary.  I think I am going to move back to Singapore.
2004/7/11-12 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Women] UID:32215 Activity:kinda low
7/11    http://www.eruptzine.com/rant3.html
        kind of funny to read ("pussy eating corrosives") haha
        \_ yeah wow that was funny like a pie in the face!  woop! woop! woop!
2004/6/23-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:30979 Activity:high
6/23    http://csua.org/u/7w8
        The boy's mutant DNA segment was found to block production of a
        protein called myostatin that limits muscle growth. The news comes
        seven years after researchers at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore
        created buff "mighty mice" by "turning off" the gene that directs
        cells to produce myostatin. "Now we can say that myostatin acts the
        same way in humans as in animals," said the boy's physician, Dr.
        Markus Schuelke, a professor in the child neurology department at
        Charite/University Medical Center Berlin. "We can apply that knowledge
        to humans, including CREATING MUTANT SUPER-SOLDIERS THAT CAN CRUSH THE
        SKULLS OF THEIR ENEMIES WITH THEIR BARE HANDS. MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!1!!"
        \_ Why do you hate DNA?
        \_ Thinking like this will destabalize the human genome for generations
           to come.
        \_ Why do you hate children?
           \_ Because when you have them your freedom goes away.
2004/6/23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:30968 Activity:nil
6/23    Viral therapy for cocaine addicts:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996055
        \_ It's technically more like gene therapy, with a virus used
           as the delivery vector.  I worked on something tangentially
           related to this a few years ago.
2004/5/10 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Dental, Health/Disease/General] UID:30127 Activity:high
5/9     Porn star becomes a doctor.  You can do that too.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/10/national/10PORN.html?hp
        \_ No URL, no explanation?  Is there any reason this should not be
           deleted?
           \_ is there any reason why it should be deleted?  you fucktard.
              \_ There's nothing to discuss
                 \_ It's an interesting story, man.  There's more to life than
                    computers.
                    \_ The OP posted it without a URL.  There *was* nothing to
                       discuss.
                 \_ so what.
        \_[Content free responses deleted]
        \_ Yeah, but do any Internet Rock Stars become doctors?
2004/4/6-7 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:13046 Activity:nil
4/6     http://www.thememoryhole.org
        Wired also has a story about it.
        \_ Ah, finally looked at the mutilation pics. Nice. Grinning kids
           looking like they're on a pleasant field trip, charred torso
           being poked. They should have set up a soccer game with one of
           the heads.
           \_ Actually, I meant the docs about the goings-on of 9/11.
              I guess I should have posted the http://wired.com article instead.
              \_ Or maybe some of the context for the link.  Duh.
                 \_ Mind read or die, scum!
2004/3/8 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:12564 Activity:nil
3/7     Mystery virus prevents AIDS:
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994742
        \_ not really
2004/2/24-25 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Sleeping] UID:12383 Activity:high
2/24    Yahoo! News - Half of Young Americans to Get Sex Diseases -Study
        http://csua.org/u/65j
        Holy cow!  I'd better stop sleeping around.
        \_ I pity the poor dumb bastards at school now.  I fucked my way
           through school and didn't catch a thing.  I used about 5 condoms
           the whole time.
           \_ How many other guys' semen have you indirectly touched with your
              penis?
              \_ it wasn't so indirect...
              \_ Uh oh, homophobia hits the motd.  None probably but if one or
                 more was slutting around and dripping with cum and I didn't
                 notice I think I survived.  Thanks for caring!
           \_ You believed it the chick said she was on the pill?
           \_ What's the incubation period of AIDS again?
        \_ Wow, this sounds pretty tin-foil condom to me.
        \_ while I think condom is safe and all, I don't use them anymore.
           When I started screwing this chick who was on the pill, I never
           wanted to go back to condoms again. It just feels sooooooo much
           better without the condom. It's like the difference between
           getting a massage with a hammer vs. getting a massage with bare
           naked hands. Having sex without condom is like, drugs, once you're
           on it you get hooked forever.
           \_ Agreed.  And I take care of the safety issue by marrying a
              virgin.
        \_ Americans have the highest STD rate in the industrialized world?
           But what about those amoral French?  This can't be Tr00000!
           \_ the french have sex-ed!  Ignorance Is Truth!
           \_ the french people i know seem to be quite priggish about sex.
              \_ Er, I was kidding?  You guys are a swift bunch here in
                 motdlandia.
                 \_ the promiscuity of the french seems to be an enduring
                    stereotype.
                    \_ Yo.  Dude.  I was kidding.  HELLO.  EARTH TO STUPID
                       MAN.
                       \_ you know, the world doesn't quite revolve you.
                          the fact that you were kidding is mostly
                          coincidental to the point that there is an
                          enduring stereotype.
                          \_ The world doesn't revolve me?  Whoa dude,
                             that's like profound and shit.
                             \_ Of course the world revolves you. If it
                                didn't you would fly off into space.
2004/2/19 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:12304 Activity:nil
2/18    If you want to defend President Bush, post your defense on MOTD
        instead of simply censor it.
        Scientists Accuse White House of Distortion:
        http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=1683040
        \_ Further evidence why science should not be politicized.
           The piece is partisan fluff by journalists feeding
           at the public trough; zero facts just accusatory
           demagoguery literally about saving the children.
           So I went to the full report:
           Global Warming -
           http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/trc.html
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1010124/posts
           Air Pollution - no comment because they don't provide
                           enough evidence.  Yes obviously lead
                           and mercury are bad but exactly how
                           much money is society willing to spend
                           to reduce them to parts per trillion
                           levels.  And guess what, lead and mercury
                           are naturally occurring! Are we going
                           to scrub the environment clean of these
                           elemements??
           Abstinence / AIDS - AIDS is transmitted by almost
                               entirely by promiscous homosexuals
                               engaging literally in tens or 100's of
                               anonymous unprotected sex acts a
                               year.  Why should I be expected to
                               pay for someone's reckless acts of
                               irresponsibility?
                               All Bush mandated was that the same
                               amount be spent on abstinence
                               programs as is spent giving free
                               birth control pills to HS students
                               without their parents consent.
                                \_ Are you really this stupid?
                                   Did you not pay attention in sex ed
                                   during high school?  You just massively
                                   discredited yourself.  I suppose all the
                                   "fags" forced all the heterosexuals with
                                   AIDS to engage in gay orgies?  -John
                                   \_ The percentage of straight victims is
                                      near zero compared to the numbers for gay
                                      males, drug addicts, and men visiting
                                      prostitutes.  Once you take the spouses
                                      of bi-sexual men, drug addicts and
                                      'johns' out of the numbers, you don't
                                      have too many non-gay victims in the US
                                      population.  John, you're the one who has
                                      massively discredited themself with your
                                      hot button pushing ranting and hysteria.
                                      Calm down, stop knee jerking, smoke a
                                      joint and find some facts.
                                        \_ Has it ever occurred to you that
                                           "the gay community", due to its
                                           historically higher exposure, has
                                           a much higher awareness and
                                           reporting rate for AIDS?  Kill all
                                           fags.  -John
           Endangered species act - tell that to those people in
                                    Klamath falls and those whose
                                    livelihood depends on development
                                    of natural resources.  Massive
                                    ongoing cases of scientific
                                    fraud inside the EPA and Forest
                                    Service
                                    \_ Ah, you rail against unsubstantiated
                                       claims, and your evidence is utterly
                                       impeccable.  Q.f. 'Other Peoples'
                                       Money", Danny De Vito's diatribe about
                                       buggy whip manufacturers.  -John
                                       \_ Say what?  Pass that joint over here!
                                          Or at least try again.
                                          \_ I can't, I'm too busy
                                             hysterically ranting against
                                             freeper idiots.  -John
           Aluminum tubes - I stopped here because this reveals the
                            entire agenda of the 'paper'.  When Islamic
                            radicals detonate a nuclear weapon
                            on US soil I hope all those who propose
                            a policy of capitulation are in the
                            blast radius.
                                \_ We should also ban export of screwdrivers
                                   because they can be used to build n00ks.
                                   \_ Standard red herring.  This is just like
                                      saying we shouldn't lock our front doors
                                      at night because a burglar can always
                                      break a window.  Do you use "password" as
                                      your password because hey they can always
                                      break in using an ssh bug anyway?
2004/1/22-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:11889 Activity:moderate
1/22    http://csua.org/u/5ns
        More on the syphilis/chat room connection.
        \_ LORD, SAVE US FROM THE GAYEEEES!!
           \_ AND THOSE PERVEEERT LESBEENS!!
        \_ oh my god!  almost 7000 cases nationwide of a disease which is
           easily cured with antibiotics!  Let's shut down the Internet!  -tom
2003/12/1-2 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:29681 Activity:nil
12/1    Wow.  I didn't know Asimov died of AIDS:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov
        \_ Bad blood transfusion.  Fact of cause of death was withheld for
           ten years after his death.
           \_ right... like we believe that.
2003/11/22 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Foreign] UID:11185 Activity:nil
11/21   S.F. has nation's highest syphilis rate
        http://csua.org/u/52d
        Must be the foggy weather
        \_ Must be that you're an evil rich white male oppressor racist!
        \_ You really are obsessed with this.  You need help.
        \_ It is good to be #1 in something, at least.
           \_ SF is #1 in several things, none of them good.
2003/11/21 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:11166 Activity:high
11/21   Syph, aids, gay men, etc:
        http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20031120-044239-3323r
        \_ Do you get some kind of sexual satisfaction from rehashing this
           topic over and over again?
           \_ Hating gays helps distract him from his celibacy.
        \_ http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-09-18-detroit-syphilis_x.htm
2003/10/23 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10748 Activity:nil
10/22   What are some applications or general set of problems that are most
        suited to be solved on server farms?  I know of stuff like SETI.
        But I was thinking along the lines of problems that are specially
        suited for large number of machines interconnected to massive
        storage in one centralized place (little network latency).  Thanks.
        \_ hosting large web sites.
        \_ lots of bioinformatics problems
        \_ http://www.fightaidsathome.org  BTW I vaguely remember that its number of
           participants is much lower than SETI@home, even though fighting AIDS
           seems more important.  Anyone knows why?
           \_ because if we find aliens it'll change the course of human
              history dramatically, but if we stop aids, it just means one
              less way out of thousands to die.  death is common, aliens are
              not.  others understand that fighting aids is not more important
              when most aids carriers got it through voluntary activities.  the
              only true aids victims are hemophiliacs and surgey patients who
              got tainted blood and similar situations.
              \_ bad troll--the true nutcase AIDS troll is Duesberg's
                 "AIDS doesn't exist" position.
                 \_ it's not a troll.  it's the truth.  i expressed my opinion.
                    if you disagree, say why.  if you take it up the ass a few
                    times a week from strangers you're going to get aids and
                    that's no one's fault but your own.  i've got no sympathy
                    for any new cases that have come along in the last 10 years
                    from people engaging in known risky activity.  the same
                    goes for iv drug users, or anyone else engaging in high
                    risk activity that has been *known* to be high risk and a
                    near guarantee of a death sentence since the early 90s. at
                    this point no adult has the excuse of not knowing what
                    causes aids or how to avoid it.
                    \_ seti@home was first, and had great publicity.
                       I'm guessing if the roles of the two projects
                       were reversed in terms of publicity and timing,
                       it would be the other way round.
                    \_ What about the third world?
              \_ I agree on the true victim part.
        \_ I guess the class of problems are those which the ratio of CPU time
           to data size is high, and the data can be divided into independent
           sets.
        \_ molecular biology, specifically for studying protein folding.
        \_ Oceanography, meteorology, and lots of other Earth sciences. We
           use supercomputers for gravity modeling. The best problems are
           those where the next operation does not involve the result from the
           previous operation (e.g. Monte Carlo sims). --dim
           \_ Yes. a variety of statistical analyses and modeling is most
              common.  MCMC, especially, since you can run 100 independent
              threads, and then merge them all together for analysis. -nivra
        \_ Neuroimaging.  Structural MRI comparisons across subjects and
           through populations using volumetric tensor fields.  Functional
           studies making comparisons across groups for 4D scans.  Check out
           http://www.loni.ucla.edu  -drex
2003/10/22-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10737 Activity:nil
10/21   Elliot Smith, RIP
        http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/03-10/22.shtml
2003/10/22 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10730 Activity:nil
10/21   Why, specifically, do gay men have a higher chance of getting
        HIV?
        \_ because it bleeds.
        \_ and because gay men are more promiscuous.
        \_ Comparing to whom?  Straight men?  Lesbian women?
        \_ http://www.virusmyth.com
           \_ My god, are people still buying this crap?  From the NIH:
              http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm
              \_ I think the South African govt still does.
                 \_ And you wonder why they have the highest infection rate
                    in Africa?  Burying your head in the sand does not help.
        \_ CDC to the rescue:
           http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq22.htm
        \_ It is better to give than to receive.  http://www.holybible.org
           \_ Oh, that's why those priests "gave" to the young boys all the
              time.
2003/10/16 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10658 Activity:nil
10/16   I'm not sure if the aids infected guy is worse or his wife:
        http://www.thisislondon.com/til/jsp/modules/Article/print.jsp?itemId=7172821
2003/10/13 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10609 Activity:high
10/13   What kind of protection do you use and why?
        pill:.
        \_ it is what she prefers
        condom:
        \_ too much hassle
        nothing: .
        \_ cuz it feels better
           \_ and you want to be a daddy
        \_ What is up with the safe sex questions lately on the motd?  Did
           none of you get basic sex education in school?  Do you not know
           how to use google?
                \_ well I used to use the condom but lately I've been
                   using nothing and it feel SOOOOOOOOOO much better and
                   now I don't ever want to go back using the condom.
                   \_ What's up, Daddy?
           \_ Catholics trying to figure out if the Church was lying when
              it said condoms don't prevent the spread of AIDS?
        sleep with _your_ wife/gf: .
        \_ so you can raise my kids
        abstinence: .
        my geekly magnetism driving away the girls:
        \_ hi geordan!
        chastity belt:
2003/10/7-8 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:10514 Activity:insanely high
10/7    Great WaPo article about retired woman working at Hardee's to pay for
        health insurance:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42036-2003Oct3.html
        \_ How do I get this site to work with links-not-lynx?
        \_ sick.
        \_ She's not retired, she's only 58!
        \_ Let's be real. Her generation is the wealthiest generation ever
           and is more wealthy than ours (I'm 30) will be. They bought houses
           for $15K 30 years ago that are worth $500+K now. They receive
           Social Security and a lot of them had good pensions from work, too.
           I feel bad for this lady, but I don't want to hear any 50 or 60
           somethings bitching about not having money to retire with. I'll
           have to work until I'm 70 for a fraction of her SS (if I'm lucky)
           and no pension, but a 401(k) made mostly of my own money. Boo hoo.
           \_ Seriously, if it was your mom, would you just tell her
              TANSTAAFL and get back to work?
              \_ Seriously, my mom has no retirement and will be fucked
                 when she retires, having only SS. It's all her own damn
                 fault. I may help her if I can, but this is my problem
                 not yours. Feel free to donate money to this total stranger
                 if it makes you feel good. I have my own problems. She's
                 got a job and we've (society) already paid $97000 for her
                 heart surgery. What the hell does she want after all?
                 \_ My mom is in the same boat, btw.
                 \_ Why I am not surprised that sodans don't care about their
                    mothers?
                    \_ We just care about yermom. Cared, last night.
                       \_ Mom's a bit of a slut. Btw she has AIDS.
        \_ Pres. Bush probably ripped her off personally.  But, as stated above,
           there will be ZERO Social Security for our generation.  In fact,
           most likely the Fed will retroactively tax your 401k
           to pay for greedy seniors.
2003/9/2 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:10035 Activity:nil
9/1     Full text of article on prison healthcare, from August 2003 Harper's:
        http://www.wrongfuldeathinstitute.com/links/sickontheinside.htm
        Just to give you an idea of why you might want to care about this,
        here's a short quote: "It is worth noting, then, that somewhere
        between 20 and 40 percent of American prisoners are, at this very
        moment, infected with hepatitis C, and therefore quite contagious.
        It is also worth noting that most of them will eventually be released
        back into the general population, where the infection rate is, for
        now, only about 2 percent."
        \_ And you know how HepC spreads, right?  No worries here.
           \_ All kinds of ways... pretty much anything that involves
              bleeding.  You didn't read the article, did you?
              \_ And since no one has ever bled on me...
              \_ Since I'm not regularly having penetrative unprotected anal
                 sex with ex-cons I think I'm ok with this.  No, I didn't read
                 the article but I do know how HepC spreads.
                 \_ Ever heard of fistfights?  And why don't you read the
                    article?  Hear no evil, see no evil, eh?
          \_ Or say someone working in food service and who doesn't wash
             their hands well.
             \_ Right.  Hepatitus is thousands of times more virulent than
                say, HIV, and it takes a lot less than unprotected anal
                intercourse to transmit the virus.
                \_ Don't confuse Hep A with C, which is far less easily
                   transmitted.
                http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/fact.htm
                \_ useful! thanks.  as far as i can tell, my risk will
                   remain zero even after some huge population of
                   infected former inmates is reaeased into the general
                   population.
                   \_ Oh I get it.  Since YOU won't be directly affected,
                      you don't care.  Only things that directly endanger
                      overweight semi-virginal system administrators are
                      worth caring about.
             \_ Even if they do, the faucets aren't clean anyway.
2003/8/1-2 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:29210 Activity:kinda low
8/1     Are people really naturally just idiots? There's an email with a virus
        floating around in our company, and everyone is panicking like little
        girls. Seems like everyone is doing a reply all stating this is a virus
        or asking what to do or having conversations ("Hey Bob, I think this is
        a virus. What do you think?"). FUCKERS.
        \_ I think you are old enough to know the truth.  Yes.  Yes they are.
        \_ They're just trying to do anything to avoid work.  You know, like
           writing to /etc/motd.public.
2003/5/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:28522 Activity:high
5/21    Bayer sells medicine that carried high risk of transmitting
        AIDS in Asia and Latin America after it stop selling it in
        the west.  100 people in Hong Kong and Taiwan got HIV after
        using Bayer's medicine.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/22/business/22BLOO.html
        \_ So?  Don't those other countries have their own control over drugs
           in the marketplace?  You know there are drugs approved for use in
           Europe that aren't allowed here?  They should protect themselves
           better and not rely on foreign nations to decide what drugs are
           good or bad for their people.
            \_ you have no idea what your great country is doing.  USA
                never reluctant to throw their weight around to sell their
                products.  if the government is not co-operating... well,
                the worse case is what happened to Guatemala, Iran, and
                Iraq - government got overthrown by US either conventional
                or covert forces.
                \_ uhhh, Bayer is german!  damn nazi's experimenting again.
                \_ So the Great White Satan goes to these countries and says,
                   "You must accept our poisoned drugs or we'll invade your
                    country and install a government that will sell our broken
                    drugs to your citizens"?  Stop reading so much
                    alt.conspiracy.esl.
                \_ You've read too many Gibson novels.  Perhaps you should
                   sit down, put a damp towel over your head and take a long
                   rest.
                   \_ Hasn't government basically dissapeard in Gibson's
                      futuristic novels?  Is the US government mentioned
                      even once in the Sprawl series?
                   \_ any citizens of foreign nation who is politically
                      conscious know this.  These are facts, not fictions.
                      For most part, USA just throw its economic weight
                      around, and because USA is the largest export market,
                      that is usually enough.  It's unfortunate for Iran
                      and Iraq, because oil is too much to gave up.
                      \_ Iran?  You mean that we invaded Iran for their oil?
                         WTF are you babbling about?  You're beneath idiocy.
                         \_ You know that the US overthrew a democratically
                            elected leader in Iran and had the Shah installed
                            in his place in 1953, right?
                    \_ Could you join us in the current century please?  And
                       as always, it's not nearly as grade school simple as
                       you'd like to portray history.
           \_ Good troll. Lots of bites.
        \_ You are moron. -aaron
           \_ "You are [a] moron. -aaron" [corrected]
              \_ You are fool" -!aaron
                \_ I am not aaron - eric
2003/3/17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Skin] UID:27729 Activity:nil
3/17    An update on my skin.  :-)  Besides using my wife's skin care products,
        eating well and excercise has really helped also. I have this healthy
        pinkish glow to my cheeks and my lips are getting redder.  My skin
        SHINES!  Women at work at noticing me and striking up conversations
        with me.  Even the gay men are checking me out.  It's quite flattering.
        My wife thinks I'm the ultimate pretty boy now.  -guy with good skin
        \_ how's the sex with UCLA EE guy?
        \_ how's the sex with your gay coworkers?  Made any money in
           the Castro?  Enough to quit your day job and pay for AIDS drugs?
2002/12/2 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:26691 Activity:nil
11/28   A Thanksgiving prayer by WSB:
        Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons, destined to
        be shit out through wholesome American guts.
        Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison.
        Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger.
        Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin leaving the
        carcasses to rot.
        Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until
        the bare lies shine through.
        Thanks for the KKK.
        For nigger-killin' lawmen, feelin' their notches.
        For decent church-goin' women, with their mean, pinched, bitter,
        evil faces.
        Thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers.
        Thanks for laboratory AIDS.
        Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs.
        Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind the own business.
        Thanks for a nation of finks.
         \_ Yeah, thanks for the nation of finks that turned in those two
            serial killers who were shooting random people on the East Coast.
        Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!
        You always were a headache and you always were a bore.
        Thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and
        greatest of human dreams.
        \_ What is WSB and q.v.v. - thanks.
        \_ I hate white people too!  Let's go kill some crackers!
2002/11/2-3 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:26387 Activity:insanely high
11/1    how many different continents have you have sex on?
        1 - .
        2 - ......
        3 - ....
              \_ woo! i rule! --aaron
                \_ how many different chicks?
                \_ er, how many are from Asian hookers?
                   \_ C'mon, aaron's good-looking enough to get laid
                      without resorting to paying whores.
                      \_ Good looking has nothing to do with getting laid for
                         guys since most women can't even agree on what a good
                         looking guy looks like.
                         \_ 9 out of 10 hot chicks agree:  aaron's good looking.
                            \_ URL?
        \_ does yermom count as a continent?
        4 - ...
            \_ sure am glad I made that trip to South America!
               \_ Did you go and do some random chick there or bring along
                  a gf? I'm too scared of disease to ever consider the former.
                  \_ 33% of all sexually active Americans over the age of
                     10 have some kind of venereal disease.  You can
                     get herpes just *kissing* someone.  1/4 of all
                     new American AIDS cases are in people under 21.
                     Don't think for a second that the lack of mud huts
                     and unpaved roads means this is a sexual paradise.
                     \_ WTF are you?  A dorm health worker/condom dispenser?
                        How about a real berakdown for those AIDS stats?  How
                        How about a real breakdown for those AIDS stats?  How
                        many new cases are from male homosexual sex vs hetero
                        sexual sex?  With a few loud exceptions the motd
                        doesn't care about gay men getting AIDS.  AIDS is an
                        activity transmitted disease, not age related.
                        \_ Do you have a herpes-diseased genital area with
                           lots of broccoli-shaped growths?
                           \_ Not until after I did yermom.  Were you the guy
                              in the mask and cock ring?
        0 - .  \_ How come I have to add this choice?
                  \_ Because you're the only virgin left on the motd?  Everyone
                     else at least went to SF or Oakland and got a hooker once?
                   \_ there are hookers in Berkeley too!
                     \_  where are the hookers in Oakland and Berkeley?
                      \_ San Pablo!
                         \_ That's like being in Oakland though.
                         \_ San Pablo and where?  It's a long street!
                            \_ San Pablo and Oakland.
2002/9/17-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:25920 Activity:high
9/17    http://monkeybagel.com/pumas.html
        \_ Where's my chaingun and hovercraft?
2002/7/16 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:25371 Activity:high
7/16    Everyone, say hello to "Sicko": http://csua.org/u/94
        \_ "...... South Africa, where one in nine people have the virus that
           can lead to AIDS."  Scary.
           \_ Some countries are around 1 in 3.  This stuff is so necessary,
              our legislators should be dragged into the streets for being
              "worried".
        \_ Gotta love the fact that lawmakers are more afraid of a puppet
           than the actual disease.
        \_ A related note: Are HIV-positive kids in the US currently allowed
           to go to regular child-care centers or kindergartens?  How do they
           prevents kids from exchanging body fluids like tears or saliva?
           \_ they don't need to; AIDS doesn't spread through tears or saliva.
              \_ Oh really?  Would you bet your life on that?  Your child's?
2002/7/16-18 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:25370 Activity:kinda low
7/16    Come join AIDS Walk San Francisco, this Sunday 7/21.
        http://www.aidswalk.net/sanfran/index.html
        \_ It's all a complete scam - you're being played.
           \_ care to elaborate?
           \_ I thought that was AIDS Ride, is the walk similarly
              run?
           \_ I walked once a few years ago.  It was real.
2002/7/10 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:25320 Activity:nil
7/9     Be safe.  Get snipped.
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992519
        "She says more than 30 studies have suggested a halving of the risk of
        HIV transmission if the male sexual partner is circumcised. Gayle is
        calling for further studies to investigate whether there is a clear
        cause and effect between the procedure and the risk reduction."
        \_ how about a much simplier solution: have your partner tested!!
           \_ What?  And pretend I'm not in love!!??
2002/7/8-10 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Science/Biology] UID:25306 Activity:insanely high 50%like:25845
7/8     A moment of silence for Gene Kan.  RIP.
        \_ who?
        \_ how did he die?
        \_ Care to provide more info?
        \_ the one who wrote the open source Gnutella?
        \_ (URL inserted at top so out of chronological order:). DETAILS:
Gene Kan

Summary:

Better human being than most.
           http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=581&e=4&cid=581&u=/nm/20020710/tc_nm/people_kan_dc_5
        \_ http://news.com.com/2100-1023-942180.html?tag=fd_top
        \_ Sun PR says it was an accident:
           http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/020708/us_obit_kan_1.html
        \_ Does anyone know if there will be a public service?
           Gene will be very missed, even by those that haven't seen
           him for a while. -randal
        \_ a new Wired news writeup indicates suicide.
           http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,53704-2,00.html
           \_ anyone archive his resume?
           \_ no duh!!! When a Chinese family shuts up about the method of
              death it's almost always a suicide because there's suppose to
              be a mark of shame for the family. If it's heart attack or
              cancer they'd have nothing to hide.
              \_ is this type of thinking documented somewhere? Url?
                          Because if it ain't on the Internet, _/
                          it can't be true
                 Just culturally curious and trying to keep you honest.
                 The other sources said it was an "accident".
                        \_ one of the Buddists' rules says that you'll
                           go to hell if you commit suicide. Another common
                           saying is "It's better to live like a dog than
                           to die like a king." It's a Chinese thing.
                           \_ When the "quote" gets so specific I suspect
                              you do know what you wrote is incorrect.
                              Suicide's paving the road to hell has been a
                              long held belief of Catholics, and possibly
                              other religions also consider it as self-murder.
                              But buddhism is conspicuously not in that group.
                              Indeed buddHists monks routinely, though not on
                              large scale, commit suicide.  Most families
                              feel uneasy about the suicide of a member, in
                              addition to pain.  It's of course possible that
                              your family doesn't, if you have one, and they
                              will go to Jerry's show over your body.  Asian
                              families, and to some extent every group that
                              in general have more "family values" than trailer
                              tribes tend to prefer to keep such thing private,
                              which I like, and lean toward denial, which
                              than die well."  There is neither dog
                              nor king, and it is an attitude usually ascribed
                              to the lower classes who supposedly have no
                              shame.  There are many more sayings to the
                              contrary for the self-respecting ones, so you
                              I don't.  BTW, the saying you quoted literally
                              translates to "it's better to live marginally
                              than die well."  There is neither dog nor king,
                              and it is an attitude usually ascribed to those
                              who have no shame and will do or say anything to
                              get by.  There are many more sayings to the
                              contrary for the self-respecting ones, but you
                              don't have to know them.
              \_ same with many christian families.  like my folks did
                 when my brother did it.  berkeley gets another...
              \_ Doubt it. If he died of AIDS or Bob Crane-style, they'd
                 shut up about it.
            \_ yeah, Chinese families--"what?  you only sold InfraSearch for
               $10 million!?"  too much pressure.
2002/6/28 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:25233 Activity:nil
6/27    ...The city [SF] used $50,000 in taxpayer funds to create a "whimsical"
        public awareness project called "Healthy Penis 2002."
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/707437/posts
2002/3/24-25 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:24215 Activity:very high
3/23    Real-time ACM World Finals scoreboard:
            http://icpc.baylor.edu/icpc/Finals/Scoreboard/full.html
        Problem set: http://icpc.baylor.edu/icpc/Finals/problems.pdf
        \_ has cal ever won the finals?
           \_ Yes. http://icpc.baylor.edu/past/icpc96/Report.html
                \_ did they win because stanford was not competing
                   or is that wrong to say?
                   \_ I think that was the year everyone else withdrew.
                      \_ woohoo!  the two sweetest words in the english
                         language!  de-fault!  de-fault!
        \_ GO BEARS!  Honorable mention right in between U. of Arkansas and U.
           of Nebraska - Lincoln!  Maybe next time Cal can beat U. of Central
           Florida for the coveted position of 27th place!  Way to go!
           \_ derision is easy.  How well have *you* done in ACM
              competitions?  -tom
              \_ Missing point (again).  Was I deriding individual team
                 members?  No.  I was deriding CS education at Cal in general.
                 You knew that though... I hope.  You're not still smarting
                 over that AIDS thread and feeling soft for all victims of
                 derision, are you?  It's ok, we still like you even when
                 you're provably wrong.
                 you're provably wrong.  [censored and restored]
                 \_ the only reason tom would be missing a point is that
                    your responses are so damned pointless. -jon
2002/3/22-23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Recreation/Celebrity/MichaelJackson, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:24195 Activity:insanely high
3/22    People born in the 70s and grew up in the 80s had:
        madonna, michael jackson, star wars, top gun, aids, etc.
                                                      \_ I didn't have AIDS
                                                         \_ Very few people
                                                            have it. Fewer
                                                            contract it.
                                                            (read urls below)
                                                            \_ Winner:
                                                               Unclear on
                                                               the Concept
                                                               Award.
                \_ Those things existed, but so what?  They were painful then
                   and painful now and all of them are still here so what's
                   the difference?  (Tom Cruise is still here even if his
                   earlier movies are forgotten)
                \_ Technically star wars is from the 70's. Or did you mean
                   Empire and ROTJ.
        How about the people born in the 80s and grew up in the 90s?  What
        is your equivalent?  I'm wondering if there's a generation gap with
        you young folks.
        \_ fuck your pop culture.  i was born in '76 and grew up in the 80's
           and know nothing for your pansy ass micheal jackson crap.
           DRI, Metallica, Iron maiden, motorhead, minor threat, black flag,
           repo man, thrasher magazine, skateboarding, setting stuff on
           fire, hating ronald reagan, being an anarchist, programming
           the apple ][e in assembler...
           \_ So Reagan was in office from 81 to 88 which makes you all of
              about 12 when he *left* office.  And you were all of about 14
              when the 80s ended.  So you were a Reagan hating anarchist
              listening to Iron Maiden all through the 80s from age 4 to 14?
              Sure, kid, sure.  We all know the 90s sucked but trying to worm
              your way into the 80s with bad math won't help you any.
        \_ They get nothing.  They are weak and easily pushed to the wall.
        \_ Ewe! You are so 80s!
           \_ How dare you call them a sheep.
        \_ you mean there are people born in the 80s?  How weird is that?
        \_ VH1, Win95, High Speed Internet, AIM, PlayStation
             \_ You really want to lay claim to vh1, win95 and AIM?
                \_ I'm just saying these are things that kids growing
                   up in the 90's had. I'm not saying that they are
                   good. Some other things that 90s kids had:
                   Linux, Street Fighter 2, MTV's Real World/Spring Break,
                   Gulf War, bad scifi (TNG, DS9, VOY, B5, etc.)
                   \_ They had fewer parents, more pregnancies and higher
                      rates of drug use and suicide, too.
2002/3/22-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:24189 Activity:insanely high
3/21    Peter Duesberg's HIV/AIDS research web site, he's a
        MCB Professor here at Berkeley who isolated the
        first cancer gene.
        http://www.duesberg.com/index.html
        \_ it's interesting that drug needle sharing is cited by orthodox
           groups as being a major cause of hiv infection. this indicates to
           me that a lot of aids patients had a history of drug abuse, if
           past needle sharing shows up significantly as a cause. how many
           regular folks shoot up on heroin or hang out with those who do?
           i'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt enough to support
           funding the guy's research.
        \_ Took a class from him years ago before his ideas and reputation got
           stomped on by the politcally correct science crowd.  He was good.
           \_ are you for real?  what class did you take?  where did you
              see him speak?  Duesberg also thinks cancer is a myth. ok i
              admit i am over simplifying.  his partner in kookdom David
              Rasnick announced in January he was going to inject himself
              with the AIDS virus to prove it doesn't hurt, did he follow up
              on that? - danh
              \_ Hmm, these people seem to disagree with you.  Check
                 the list then ask yourself who is more credible.
                 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/group.htm
                 Oh, and BTW, the Nobel Laureate
                 Kary Mullis who invented
                 PCR also seems to disagree with you.. but alas,
                 I'm SURE you know better!
                 \_ Just because a huge list of PhD's, Nobel Laureates and
                    others not easily written off as crackpots think there
                    might be something worth looking into doesn't mean jack.
                    tom already told us the way it is.  Why question it?
                        \_ gee, anonymous insults.  How useful.  -tom
              \_ Yes. It was around 1992.  Something like MCB 6 or something
                 like that.  A lecture series course which he co-taught with
                 someone else who left no impression on me at all.  I don't
                 know if the other guy injected himself or what happened to
                 any of the others in France, etc who injected themselves with
                 various things.
           \_ you mean his idea that AIDS isn't caused by the HIV virus?
              The guy's a crackpot, and it has nothing to do with
              political correctness.  (He's a good example of how you
              can always find a professor to support any crackpot theory) -tom
              \_ Hmm, I was there and heard what he had to say all semester and
                 you read the Reader's Digest, maybe?  Yes, your sources are
                 much better than mine.  Excuse my error.  You're entirely
                 right.
                 \_ A man came up to me and said
                    I'd like to poison your mind
                    With wrong ideas that appeal to you
                    Though I am not unkind.  -tom
                    \_ Nice poetry.  Reader's Digest Poetry Edition?
                    \_ Nice TMBG ref.
              \_ The home page says he's only referring to American/European
                 AIDS regarding that issue, not African AIDS.  I haven't read
                 the rest yet so I don't know yet what the difference is.
                 \_ "The African AIDS epidemic fails all criteria of a
                    microbial or viral epidemic"
                    Oh and by the way, the Holocaust was invented by the
                    Jewish media.  -tom
                    \_ Sorry, Tom, but tossing around the Holocaust and the
                       Jewish media and other hot button phrases doesn't make
                       a valid argument or support your points in any way.
                       \_ And your argument is...what?  -tom
                          \_ That some people know more about what he has to
                             say than you do and find his work interesting
                             and his theories worth examining without instant
                             dismissal from the PC crowd which is exactly what
                             happened.  20 years later and no one can tell you
                             how HIV turns into AIDS.  They only refer to it
                             as 'happening' as a matter of fact.  He might be
                             100% wrong on everything he says but that can't
                             be said currently without more intellectual
                             honesty regarding his theories.
                             \_ Do you really see molecular biologists as a PC
                                crowd?  Maybe his theories were dismissed
                                because they have no basis in reality.  -tom
                                \_ They're people.  People have agendas.
                                   A science degree doesn't make someone
                                   magically immune to bias and certainly
                                   doesn't make them suddenly not afraid of
                                   losing grant money by backing a theory
                                   that offends a certain segment of
                                   society.  Maybe his theories have no
                                   basis in reality.  It hasn't been proven
                                   either way.  He was simply smeared away.
                                   Wouldn't it be dreadful if he's right or
                                   even partially right and we've lost 15+
                                   years fighting the wrong disease?
                                   \_ ...or poisoning people by trying to
                                      cure it?
                                      \_ exactly. What if the current
                                         approach is akin to leaches?
                                        \_ The current approach demonstrably
                                           saves people's lives.  If you don't
                                           believe that, there's no hope for
                                           you.  -tom
                                           \_ If you believe that without
                                              considering all scientific
                                              alternative explanations then
                                              there's no hope for you.
                                           \_ Did you even read the articles
                                              on the site? His papers indicate
                                              the opposite.
                                              \_ tom doesn't need to read.  he
                                                 already knows everything. dont
                                                 let mere facts get in his way!
                                                 \_ Tom has confused the
                                                    practice of some scholars
                                                    to weigh in on subjectd
                                                    to weigh in on subjects
                                                    the dont have expertise in
                                                    [something tom himself has
                                                    expertise in] with a
                                                    scholar weighing in on
                                                    something in his area.
                                                    \_ gee, more anonymous
                                                       insults.  You guys
                                                       are incredibly manly
                                                       and intelligent. -tom
                                                       \_ Either that or
                                                          you are too
                                                          insecure to admit
                                                          when you are
                                                          wrong.
                                                        \_ tell us about the
                                                           stars, ilyas. -tom
                                                           \_ You sure that
                                                              was me, tom?  As
                                                              sure as you are
                                                              about AIDS?
                                                               -- ilyas
                                                               \_ now *that's*
                                                                  a flame-war!
2002/3/6-7 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:24031 Activity:high
3/6     The Hammurderer is quickly becoming regarded as the worst-received
        advertising mascot since Kool-Aid's 1989 discontinuation of "The
        Grapist," a huge purple monster who sodomizes thirsty children.
        \_ "Come mr. taliban, tally me banana..."
           \_ Are you saying there's a... towelly-ban?
              \_ You wanna get high?
2001/11/22 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:23078 Activity:kinda low
11/22   Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons,
        destined to be shit out through wholesome American guts.
        Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison.
        Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger.
        Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin
        leaving the carcasses to rot.
        Thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes.
        Thanks for the American dream,
        To vulgarize and to falsify until the bare lies shine through.
        Thanks for the KKK.  For nigger-killin' lawmen, feelin' their notches.
        For decent church-goin' women,with their mean,pinched,bitter,evil faces.
        Thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers.
        Thanks for laboratory AIDS.
        Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs.
        Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind the own business.
        Thanks for a nation of finks.
        Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!
        You always were a headache and you always were a bore.
        Thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and
        greatest of human dreams.
        \_ Yawn.... Oh?  Did you say something?
2001/8/2 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:21986 Activity:low
8/2     Anyone knows how to make the auto-archive in ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v work
        again?
        \_ mehlhaff does.
           \_ yeah make soda stop rebooting
             \_ That's like selling your sister into prostitution and
                you being the pimp.  You can make a quick buck or two
                now, but it's going to bite your ass eventually (or
                perhaps your sister will bite your nuts off).
                Basically, the US Defense is nothing more than a leaky
                condom for Bush's presidency.  Sure you didn't get a
                VD this time, but how many ho's are you going to pass
                through before you pick up AIDS?
                The government needs to spend money, yes.  Not ON THE
                MILITARY though.  Funding worthy projects like
                environmental protection, cloning research,
                nanotechnology, etc. are where the efforts should be
                made.  Instead all those situations are being
                castrated.  Darwinism in reverse.
              \_ Linux.  Linux is the STANDARD.  Way to make soda stop
                 rebooting.
2001/1/30-31 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:20469 Activity:very high
1/29    For those who are working, do you make any donation to non-profits
        agencies on a yearly basis?  If so, which agencies?
        \_ I put in about $100 last Christmas for Toys for Tots. Although,
           now that I think about it there are probably more pressing
           issues than some kids getting toys. Always try to claim the
           tax benefit to get the most bang per buck (donating securities
           will allow you to avoid the capital gains tax so your charity
           gets more money).
        \_ I never donate. -- L. Ellison.
        \_ Red Cross. They accept credit card. I usually donate $200-$300/yr
        \_ Planned Parenthood, SF AIDS foundation.  Since a friend of mine died
           from cancer, I donate in her name to the American Cancer Society
           every year.  Then, there are friends who ask me to donate $40 here
           and there for their women's cancer marathon or what not.  --chris
        \- I only donate charities who do most of their work in thrid world
        countries where people are often in positions to to be able to do
        much to help themselves. Particularly hunger, basic infrastructure
        like water purification, basic medical treatment and literacy.
        I think you get a lot more "bang for the buck" in this arena rather
        than sending a dying kid to the world series or to fancy first world
        diseases. although bill gates is the spawn of satan, i think often
        made smart decisions about what charties he's given to [i suppose it
        would be politically impractical for him not do donate to some US
        charities]. --psb
           \_ Typical psb. Pontificates without answering the question.
           \_ do you realize that if I donate more money to India, there
              will be MORE Indians flocking to the States who will take
              your job for less pay? Just look at Sunnyvale^H^H^H^H^H^H
              \-i am not sure what you are complaining about when the indian
              govt pays for education that turns into increase in the united
              states gdp. --psb
              \_ If you don't like your job you don't complain. You just
                 go in and do it really half-assed. That's the American
                 way.
                 \_ Actually it's not but I'm not interested in trying to
                    dispel cultural myths created by the Japanese in the 80s.
              \_ mmmmm...curry
                 \_ mmmmm...pussy
                    \_ mmmmm...bop!
                       \_ mmmmm...die!!!!!!
              \_ goddamn, INDENT your posts properly, especially if you're
                 going to be a dumbass and put them in the middle of other
                 people's.  jebus.
              CurryVille. The Indians are driving up the housing and making
              traffic worse than NYC.
        \_ Well, more "bang for the buck" is a relative measure. Though your
           donations may go farther in the Third World, donations that
           benefit your own community will have a more tangable impact on
           your own life and the lives of your neighboors, which is
           important to some people.
        \_ Yes: UCB, USCA Alumni Association, SF Women's Health Clinic,
           \_ I'm deferring that 10% in my IRA, so that Jesus gets more
              when I'm retired.
              \_ Actually, the 10% does not include the 16% targetted
                 for my retirement cause I want to continue the 10%
                 after my retirement.
                The Oaks Foundation, Dance Safe, SF AIDS Foundation,
                Campaign for Justice, NAACP, ACLU
           \_ why the hell do you want to donate to UCB?
              \_ don't you want your degree from UCB to be worth something
                 in the future?  UCB can't survive on state funding alone,
                 imho.
                 \_ Yes it can. They just need to purge the crooks on the
                    Regents board and stop funding their stupid parties.
                    \_ Well, no, not really.  State funding covers 34% of
                       UC's costs.  There's no likelihood that the state
                       will ever come close to the 70% it once covered.
                       It's a hell of a lot of money.  -tom
                       \_ Just out of curiosity, what's your source for that
                          34% number?  I know that UCB's public relations folks
                          (particularly the Cal Annual Fund) have been using
                          it since at least 1994, and have difficulty
                          believing that it hasn't varied at all in seven
                          years.
                          \_ that's my source.  It may have varied but I
                             guarantee it hasn't risen.  -tom
        \_ I give about $20 a week to church
        \_ 10% goes back to the Lord.  $300/yr to United Way.
           \_ pre or post tax?
                                                  \- the united way has really
                                                  high administrative overhead
                                                  and in the past has been
                                                  fairly corrupt. --psb
                                                  \_
                        My understanding was that it had improved much
                        under the leadership of Elaine Chao, who is now
                        our Secretary of Labor.  Is there a ranking of
                        various charity organizations based on their
                        administrative overhead (as a percentage of
                        each dollar donated, for example)?
           \_ However religious you are, you can't believe that the money is
              going to "The Lord".  He doesn't need your money.  You might
              be giving it to a charity (hopefully) or a church (more likely,
              sadly) in His name, but you certainly aren't giving it to Him.
              \_ Wow, I can't believe how religiously insensitive and/or
                 ignorant you are.  Obviously the money is spent to maintain
                 the church, the center of faith upon which belief in God
                 is maintained, as well as further Christian goals (ie
                 help the poor thru Christ).  No there is no physical vessel
                 that carries money to God.
                 \_ Yeah, those snipers that kill doctors in their kitchen
                    in front of their (the doctor's) children need money
                    for bullets.
                    \_ Ya know I'm probably about 5x more pro-choice than you
                       are but I find this sort of comment stupid and
                       unhelpful.
2000/11/23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:19901 Activity:high
11/23  A Thanksgiving prayer by WSB:
        Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons, destined to
        be shit out through wholesome American guts.
        Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison.
        Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger.
        Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin leaving the
        carcasses to rot.
        Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until
        the bare lies shine through.
        Thanks for the KKK.
        For nigger-killin' lawmen, feelin' their notches.
        For decent church-goin' women, with their mean, pinched, bitter,
        evil faces.
        Thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers.
        Thanks for laboratory AIDS.
        Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs.
        Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind the own business.
        Thanks for a nation of finks.
        Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!
        You always were a headache and you always were a bore.
        Thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and
        greatest of human dreams.
        \_ Yes there have been and still are a lot of problems in
           this country, but there are also a lot of things to be
           thankful for.  I am thankful to be in America.  If you
           dislike it so much, you are free to leave, or work
           to make it better.  Whining about it on Thanksgiving is
           just stupid, though.  -immigrant
        \_ I'm thinking that maybe we have the immigration concept all wrong in
           this country.
           We should throw open the borders to people like the immigrant above
           and _kick out_ those who have no clue how good it is here.
           I've been to third world countries (most of Western Europe) and I
           swear one of the best days in my life was coming back here and
           setting foot on American soil again.  Love it, leave it, or change
           it, but don't whine about it.
           \_ you are missing the point of the poem.  Burroughs wrote this
             at a time when most americans didn't realize that there were
             problems with our "Perfect Society".  Note how we're headed into
             quite possibly a republican era - where the little guy can be
             stomped on - it's really easy to categorize people into "the
             lazy" and "the hard working" and to believe in self-righteouness.
                \_ Really?  Burroughs wrote that AIDS came out of a lab? Also,
                   you really think the Democrats are out there "fight fight
                   fighting!" for the little guy?  Where can I buy some?
                   I'm not a blind pro-anything psycho.  Please recognise that
                   politics is about power, not people.  Don't ever let some
                   politico from _any_ party fool you into thinking he gives
                   a crap about you.  They only care about the next election
                   and pork.  And none of this has anything to do with the
                   poem.  I repeat: love it, leave it, change it, but don't
                   just whine about it.  Lucky for you this is a country where
                   you can say such a thing and not worry about getting shot,
                   run over by a tank in a public square or hauled off to an
                   icy Siberian slave labor camp.  This isn't a utopia and
                   whining about it won't make it one.  I got the point.
2000/3/9-11 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:17724 Activity:high
3/9     Yet another reason why the madness of globalism must be stopped now
        before it's too late:
        http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=69903
        \_ That article has absolutely no evidence of the claim
           that peacekeepers are spreading AIDS.
           \_ Hmmm.. let's see... soldiers go abroad... they have sex with
              the natives... sex is always safe and no one ever gets any sort
              of disease from sex...  Yup!  You're right!  The article is
              clearly anti-UN FUD!
                \_ the fallacy is in the idea that these people wouldn't
                   have sex otherwise.
                        \_ Dummyhead.  They'd be having sex locally, not with
                           a huge crop of people from everywhere, carrying new
                           diseases to new places in bulk.  Is it not obvious?
                        \_ AIDS is AIDS, it exists everywhere.
                           \_ AIDS started _somewhere_.  Less contact over
                              borders would have spread it slower and the ideal
                              zero contact would have let it die out in the
                              jungle.  It exists everywhere for a reason.  It
                              didn't magically appear in every population on
                              the earth over night from alien starships
                              spreading plague.  Think, people, think!  You're
                              in college now!  Apply brain!
        \_ Okay, you're not completely paranoid but offset by being such a
           brushfire alarmist the likes of which are parallelled only in the
           violences of anti-holocaust-revisionist-activism because you're
           so much better than yourself as if to mock your own flaming ass
           as pidgeons fly out of it, catch on fire, and return to the
           fertilizer not from which they came because they're alien
           infernal shitpidgeons born uniquely in the inadequacy that is
           you... fuckin asshole. - (fucker)
           \_ Someone is either a) tweaking or b) a translator for
              Japanese press releases
           \_ get back in the cage already
           \_ fucker, you're back!  We love you!  -(fucker)'s #1 fan
           \_ Is (fucker) open source?  Where can I find the code and the
              source word dictionary for this?
                \_  Where is zis fuckaire?  I Must have ze source
                    for fuckaire!(tm)
2000/3/9 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:17721 Activity:nil 66%like:18076
3/8     If you must troll, at least try to be subtle.
        \_ I think gay people should all just kill themselves right now.
           I mean, isn't that what AIDS is for?  God did cast down this
           disease to rid the earth of the devil's children.
        \_  I suppose all those people who died from AIDS in blood
            transfusions were all devil children too, eh?  Get
            off of your moral high rocker.

            Like I've said before, you may not agree with what
            gay people do behind closed doors, but that doesn't not
            give anyone else the right to legislate their personal
            freedom and way of life.
2000/2/18 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:17551 Activity:nil
2/17    Support Troll Marriage!  Trolls have as much right to the protections
        and benefits of non-Troll married couples!  We are people just like
        you (except we can't breed, and we're incapable of any sort of
        fidelity, and are the major vector for HIV/AIDS in this country).
        Support Troll Marriage!  Vote Yes! on Prop 22!
                                      \_ don't you mean no?
           \_ Yes, Major Vector! Thank you sir!
           \_ ObWebster
       2: to enter into a close or intimate union <these wines marry well>
             BAN WINO MARRIAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                \_ So Webster #2 is the same use as legal marriage?  ObBrain.
1999/9/16-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:16532 Activity:high
9/16    I'm in the bathroom and I notice that a lot of guys do not wash
        their hands after they're done.  These people go back to the lab
        and use the same keyboards I touch.  Should I be afraid?  Should I
        confront them?  -this is not a troll; it is a legimate health concern
        \_ I once saw Kevin Fall not washing his hands right before going
           to the North Gate lecture hall.
        \_ urine is sterile.  What health concern are you worried about, twink?
           \_ And how did you come to this brilliant conclusion, twink?
        \_ Although considered unclean in this country, the above is correct
           re: urine.  However, they are violating a basic cultural hygene
           rule and are also unlikely to be washing their hands when they
           defecate which is definitely *not* clean.  Also, no telling what
           else these barbarians have been touching.  Definitely you should
           ask them if the sink was broken and suggest that maybe the sink
           in another bathroom functions correctly.  They'll get the hint.
        \_ you should _always_ be afraid of public surfaces such as
           keyboards, tables, doorknobs.. not because someone is sloppy in
           the bathroom (those are the cooks you should be afraid of) but
           because they're wiping their noses, coughing, etc. and you're
           loading your immune system w/ who knows what virus or bacteria.
           treat your own hands as contaminated after touching these
           things.  the less you touch your face etc. the less you
           contaminate yourself and others.   --your mom
        \_ Wear gloves.
        \_ masturbate

9/16
        \_ thats bullshit!  cs61b was the worst course i ever took because
        of that asshole.  someday you'll realize that there are more improtant
        things when you get a real job and stop riding bike and using linux.
        (fill in the origina post to match the reply.)
                \_ That is stupid.  I know huge amounts of people that don't
                   wash after #1, but I know more or less nobody that
                   doesn't wash after #2, despite the fact that if you've
                   done it correctly (which isn't exactly rare) you've
                   touched nothing but your dick or your ass, which have been
                   just sitting inside your pants cleanly since your morning
                   shower.
                   \_ But can you assume someone else's dick is clean after
                      his morning shower?  What about STDs?
        \_ Assume keyboard is dirty.  Wash before touching food.
           Move on with life.
1999/8/5-8 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:16261 Activity:high
8/4     So.  I'm going to Europe for a month.  What should I do?
        \_ ED!  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!  European Vacation.
        \_ Red Light District, Amsterdam.
                \_ Fool!  /bin/cat is the only way to go!
        \_ I've travelled a lot there and lived in France for 9mo.  Email
           me if you have questions. -cathyg
        \_ If you're there on the 11th of August, see the Total Solar
                Eclipse
        \_ Visit John!  -John
        \_ See stuff and get laid.  What else is there?
           \_ Slut Road in Pisa.  Whores galore.
           \_ seriously, amsterdam is a great place to visit.
        \_ MUD.
        \_ RIDE BIKE.
        \_ sit indoors and watch TV. Some countries have porn on regular TV.
                \_ I can do that from my desk at work.  Why go on vacation to
                   be at work?
        \_ photograph your garden gnome in exotic European locales
        \_ Whatever you do, don't rush it.  Take your time and enjoy!
        \_ "Slut Road" near Pisa, Italy.  A must.
           \_ This was a great place to get a new strain of AIDS I hadn't yet
              acquired.  Now I have three different strains and need to know
              where to get the newer type D.  Any suggestions?
              \_ Go on the Jerry Springer show and ask one of those girls out.
                \_ Where do you think I got the second strain from?  Good
                   stuff.  Still looking for type D.
                        \_ It's not AIDS but you can try the second floor
                           of Soda.  I think there's some bacteria culture
                           growing in one of the chairs.
                        \_ Go to africa and fuck some monkeys.  Maybe you'll
                           even contract a never-before seen strain and become
                           famous.
                           \_ My first strain is really SIDS which is the
                              (S)imian (I)mmune (D)eficiency (S)yndrome.
                              Even though it's not truly AIDS, I like to
                              count it as such.
1999/3/30 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:15661 Activity:nil
3/29    My parents are getting all paranoid about this new email virus so
        they refuse to check their emails now.  How does this Melissa virus
        work? I figure that if you're not stupid enough to double click on
        the Word icon then you're pretty safe.  Is that true or does it
        execute by itself.
1999/3/9-10 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:15567 Activity:high
3/8     Is there law that says a couple must have blood test before getting
        married?  Thanks.
        \_ didn't ben ask elaine to get a blood test in the graduate?
        \_ no. but you're stupid if you don't.
           \_ What are tested?  Only AIDS and STD's?  Or other diseases?
        \_ I thought there was one where they checked for stds and some rare
           weirdo blood combinations that produced 2-headed babies, or some
           similarly horrible things... -John
        \_ Testing for STDs is pretty useless before marriage now that
           most people who would be at risk are already sleeping
           together anyway.
           \_ That's a BETTER reason. You can find out "hey you slut you
              gave me vd!" and dump the bastard.
              Note: Not all STDs are immediately apparent to the victim.
        \_ Yes, in some places.  Call your county offices to find out if
           you live in one of those places.
           \_ But not in California.
        \_ Beginning January 1, 1995 it was no longer necessary to have a
           blood test in California.  The test itself was rather arcane at
           the time it ended.  It test for some things like Gonorrhea, but
           not for more serious diseases like AIDS.
           \_ Back in 1990, there was an informed consent statute on the books
              which required AIDS testing.  This was CA state only and was
              not renewed in later years.  Note that just because you aren't
              REQUIRED to get tested doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.
1998/12/15 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:15089 Activity:nil
12/14   harmful bacteria, virus, cancer-- what do these things have in common?
        Throughout human history, we have more deaths than ALL the war combined
        due combating these things that we can't see. We are 1000X more likely
        to die from things that we can't see than things that we can see.
        If we can get this simple realisation to the public, this will be a
        much better world.
        \_ I've realized this for years now. How has this helped me?
        \_ A computer program can be seen no more than a bacteria can.
           Consider computers in our ultimate downfall.
        \_ Would you rather have more people die in wars than from diseases???
1998/4/17 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:13975 Activity:high
4/17    A Cappella Against AIDS V - a cappella concert.  Wheeler Auditorium,
        this SATURDAY, April 18, 8pm.  $10 general / $5 students/seniors.
        http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~choral/aaav.html  -- I sing in Press
        Any Key.  -caos
        \_ FAGS BURN!
1998/1/28 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:13576 Activity:very high
1/27    Let's say you get your Cal diploma. Then you kill one of your profs.
        Can you get your diploma revoked?
        \_ Someone finally offed Prof. Wu?
           \_ Whats wrong with Wu?  He was one of the most lucent math
              profs I had.
                \_ He's a raging flaming piece of shit who should never
                   have been allowed to teach.
                   \_ Actually, he's great compared to Hsiang.
                      \_ Had both.  Little difference.  One weighs more.
                         \_ Duh.  I had both.  Otherwise how could I make
                            the comparison?  I actually learned something
                            from Wu.  Hsiang just babbled on about how
                            greate the ancient Chinese geometers were.
                            \_ Obviously you're on drugs or you would have
                               dropped both classes.  Your opinion is invalid.
        \_ This is a very interesting conversation, but does anyone know the
           answer? Thanks.
           \_ The answer is "No, not as far as I know, they don't revoke a
              diploma for a post-graduation felony unrelated to academic
              fraud, however you will end up in prison and learn all about
              gang rape and AIDS.  You'll have bigger problems than possible
              revokation (is that a word?) of your diploma".  How's that?
                \_ So Ted Kazinsky retains his title at Harvard and Cal?
                        \_ Probably.  Heard anything otherwise?
2018/10/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Health:Disease:AIDS:
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