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2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    

2012/8/5-10/17 [Finance/Shopping] UID:54454 Activity:nil
8/5     VPS is a LOT cheaper than EC2 by at least 5X and sometimes
        10X. Why is EC2 so popular when the price is not even
        competitive?
        http://secure.johncompanies.com/signup/step1.html?svc=linux
        http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing
        \_ One month of standard with 600GB of bandwidth is $39/mo
           for VPS. For a year that would be $428. That is about
           the same price as an EC2 medium instance for a year.
           Where do you get the 5X from?
        \_ VPS is not terribly elastic, and hasn't got a rich API w/
           programmable network and storage services?
2010/1/25-30 [Recreation/Food, Finance/Shopping] UID:53663 Activity:high
1/25    I went to Ranch 99 for the first time recently. Lots of interesting
        items, but the place got a "yuck" for its cleanliness factor and
        so I left without buying anything. I went to a Japanese market and
        it was antiseptic in comparison and the fish/meats looked much
        fresher, too. Did I happen to choose a bad location or is this
        chain going to sell me food that makes me sick? I was not impressed.
        \_ I go McD fol first time. Lots of intelesting food, but the
           prace got a "yuuck" for rack of selections and so I left
           without buying anything. I go France Market and
           it was prettier in comparison and the food was so much
           flesher, too. Did I happen to choose a bad Amelican fast
           food or are all Amelican fast food sell shit that make
           me puke porridge? I was not implessed. I don't go out
           much, enrighten me prease.           -foreign man
                                                \_ "foleign"
           \_ I dunno what fucked up place you come from but most
              places have at least the R* or L* phoneme in place.
              if you're going to affect a fake accent at least try
              to get it right, we live in a post-house-laurie world now.
        \_ china vs japan.
           \_ 99 Ranch is a Taiwanese market, not Mainland Chinese.  (Whether
              Taiwan is/isn't part of China is a separate debate.)
              \_ "The House is on FIRE!"
                 "no no this isn't a house it's an apartment, and thus
                 your argument is refuted."
        \_ Are you trolling or genuinely this stupid? If you don't know
           if you're either one, god help.
           \_ I detect ignorance... lack of exposure to the world.
              The guy is obviously a dumb ass, give him a break
           \_ Enlighten me with your wisdom.
              \_ Contrary to what you've been told in UPN or whatever,
                 asian cultures are not the same, and furthermore, stores for
                 poorer people are generally filthier than stores for rich
                 people.  Ranch 99 caters to *students* who are traditionally
                 poor/cheap.  And Mainland chinese hygiene is pretty bad.
                 Just ask what the "red spittle juice" street paintings are.
                 \_ Plus Taiwanese culture and Mainland Chinese culture are
                    different.
                 \_ Dude, I have no idea who Ranch 99 purports to cater to,
                    but I can tell you that most of the customers were not
                    students judging by their ages. So if Ranch 99 is for
                    'poor people' then what is the 'rich people' equivalent?
        \_ which Ranch 99?  In my experience, Albany was really clean,
           San Mateo/not so clean, Cupertino, SPARKLING
           \_ Yeah, poor people get dirty stores, rich people get nice clean
              stores. This is true everywhere.
              \_ Give me an example of a clean Chinatown.
                 \_ Cupertino.
                 \_ Palos Verdes Estates
                    \_ Not PVE. You mean RPV.
                 \_ Manchukuo
                 \_ Monterey Park, San Marino, Arcadia, South Pasadena
                    \_ I actually went to the Arcadia "Ranch 99". Since I
                       went there have been 3 muggings in the parking lot.
                       What a dump.
                 \_ Yokohama
2009/11/1-9 [Finance/Shopping, Health/Women] UID:53489 Activity:nil
11/1    http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/11/01/0027242/Evolutions-Path-May-Lead-To-Shorter-Heavier-Women?from=rss
        Shorter, heavier women bear more children, at earlier age than
        taller, skinner women who bear fewer. Women in the future will
        be 2cm shorter and 1kg heavier. Well, DUH! White American women
        aren't reproducing as fast as colored immigrants that mass
        produce children.
2009/7/31-8/11 [Computer/Companies/Apple, Finance/Shopping] UID:53226 Activity:high
8/1     PCs are cheaper and offer more bang for bucks. So why do I still prefer
        Apple? To signal reproductive suitability. The same reasons why
        people buy stupid fancy cars and stupid name brand clothes.
        \_ You and the women you're trying to get are iDiots of the Cult of
           Steve.  iPhones/iMacs don't last as long as Roles nor do they
           Steve.  iPhones/iMacs don't last as long as Rolexes nor do they
           appreciate like Bentleys.  Yet they are symbols of wealth?
           Have you tried on a tailored armani? it feels GREAT.  Unlike my
           experience with Spotlight w/ ext raids or TimeCapsule.
        people buy stupid fancy cars and stupid name brand clothes.
        \_ I'm pretty sure the richest man in the world uses a PC not an Apple.
        \- That is what is called a "signalling good". There are "weak"
           singalling goods, and a Apple computer is at best a weak singalling
           good, but is mostly "useful". A rolex watch is a little bit more
           of a signalling good ... it's slightly higher quality in terms of
           accuracy, it to some extent self-advertises [the rolex crown], but
           is not super obvious about it [medium "bling" factor], but you
           certainly get an acceptable time telling watch for much cheaper.
           One reason people were excited about the "I am rich" app on the
           iPhone is it was a rare "pure" signalling good ... it literally
           had no other use than to say "i can burn a $1000". There is an
           interesting study about minorities and singalling goods:
           http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1963
           (BTW, there are obviously goods that signal things other than
           wealth ... and arguably an apple laptop sends a stronger signal
           about something other than income). --psb
           \_ Lots of Burning Man camps are literally signalling "I can
              burn $1000s" to peers and potential mates. -ausman
              \_ I've never been to BM, what does this mean? I thought
                 a bunch of bums just go there to have fun and watch
                 naked women dance while drinking alcohol.
                 \_ BM is a mirror to your soul. You tend to get out of it
                    whatever you bring to it, I have found.
                    whatever you bring to it, I have discovered.
                    \_ I agree.  Of course you could also say most of life
                       is like that!  No one owes you a good time.  --brain
                    \_ that's why it costs about 300 pound sterling to go.
                 \_ It means, that just like in the real world, women and
                    courtiers respond well to displays of wealth and power.
                    Note: displays aren't/don't have to be == to the reality.
                    \_ There is a whole field of game theory devoted to this.
                    \_ There is a whole branch of game theory devoted to this.
                       Needless to say, people are pretty good at distinguishing
                       between real and fake displays, for very important
                       reasons.
                       \_ not when they're rolling on E and doing a few lines.
                       \_ not when they're rolling on E and snorting a few lines
                          I think the people you're referring to are grown up
                          40 somethings who spend hours analyzing things. Not
                          the 20 somethings roaming around burning man.
                          \_ Actually, young women are pretty good about this,
                             not too surprisingly. Hence the literally burning
                             thousands of dollars comment. Nothing signals
                             reproductive fitness than spending thousands of
                             dollars on some cool toy you spent hundreds of
                             hours (or even better, got other's free labor) and
                             then burning it up.
                             hours building (or even better, got other's free labor)
                             and then burning it up.
                             hours building (or even better, got other's free
                             labor) and then burning it up.
                             \_ that's why young women shag guys running
                                startups.
                                \_ is this what happened to hotshot dans?
2009/2/5-10 [Finance/Shopping] UID:52522 Activity:kinda low
2/5     There's no reason only poor people should get infected by malaria.
        --Bill Gates,
        just before releasing a bunch of mosquitos at TED:
        http://csua.org/u/ngw
        \_ So he supports repealing bans on DDT?
           \- the DDT ban has a interesting backstory. It is worth
              reading about.
           \_ There are plenty of ways to kill mosquitoes without DDT, and
              mosquitoes in malaria areas have mostly developed resistance
              to it.   -tom
              \_ DDT is quite cheap and worth distinguishing between
                 pesticide use and public health use.  DDT can reduce
                 malaria without needing to kill resistant mosquitos.
              \_ DDT is quite cheap and worth distinguishing between
                 (agri) pesticide use and public health use.  DDT can reduce
                 malaria levels without needing to kill resistant mosquitos.
                 And poor people running high risks can reasonably have
                 a different future discount rate.
                 \_ DDT is only cheap to the extent that its costs are
                    externalized.  -tom
                    \_ Poor people who say dont take jet planes around
                       the world have a big "externality" quota.  And
                       by that measure, the costs of the "ban" on DDT
                       arent internalized either.
                       \_ Don't kid yourself; the lack of decent mosquito-
                          abatement programs in poor countries has virtually
                          nothing to do with the ban on DDT.  -tom
                 \_ You know that DDT is still used for vector control
                    in quite a few countries, right? It is just not
                    sprayed indescriminately for ag use the way it used
                    to be. Is there some weird Right Wing meme about DDT
                    these days or something? Did Rush start talking about
                    it on his show or something? For some reason, I have
                    heard a lot about it lately.
                    it on his show? For some reason, I have heard a lot
                    about it lately.
                    \- It's not much of a contemporary issue and is not a
                       right wing issue.  But there are a number of issues
                       common to global warming: who will bear the present
                       costs, technology vs behavior change as an issue,
                       future discount, future discount incorporating
                       differntial impact and resources etc. There are also
                       some analogous problems when it comes to antibiotics ...
                       but I'm trying to avoid getting into long motd
                       conversations, so i'll leave it at that.
2008/7/23-28 [Finance/Shopping] UID:50663 Activity:nil
7/23    Sometimes Fedex is actually cheaper (huge boxes) and sometimes
        USPS is cheaper. Media (book/CD) in particular is the cheapest
        with USPS but many items I sell on eBay are not CDs/books. UPS
        has rarely been cheap for me. This is all very confusing and
        eating up my profit margins. Is there a site that'll help me
        find out which service would be cheaper for the different types
        of packages I send out?
        \_ I'm curious about this as well.  I was just checking all 3 sites
           for every package.
        \_ Just add shipping as a cost borne by the purchaser on EBay.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Shopping] UID:50661 Activity:high
7/23    So tom, how does it feel to be rich?  You're in the top 10% you know.
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121659695380368965.html
        \_ Where are the numbers for all the other taxes we pay, like
           payroll, sales, etc? Oh yeah, just ignore all the facts that
           don't advance your pro-inherited wealth ideology.
        \_ So, how does it feel to be an anonymous coward?  -tom
        \_ I'm not pro-tax by any means, but isn't it pathetic that the
           top 1% of the country earns double what the bottom 50% does? It
           would not necessarily be positive even if the chart showed the top
           1% paying 99% of the taxes if they also earn 99% of the income
           leaving the other 99% to fight over crumbs. Also, I'd like to see a
           similar chart which shows after-tax income.
           \_ Why is it pathetic?
           \_ No! The standard of living has improved for every segment
              \_ You think this is a Good Thing?
                 \_ No. I just don't find it very surprising. The bottom 50%
                    are economically rather useless. Supply and demand...
                    why would a single diamond be worth more than a ton of
                    normal rocks?
                    \_ I have more respect more American workers than that.
                       I could see if you said bottom 10%, but bottom HALF?
                       \_ Everyone in the bottom half is "below average".
                          And "average" isn't very good in this country
                          (or any other country, really). I'm not saying
                          they're worthless. But they aren't rare snowflakes
                          and they're probably not even trying that hard to
                          improve themselves, as long as they have their
                          food + home + sex.
                          \_ I actually think American workers have a
                             strong work ethic and are among the best in
                             the world. It's interesting that when foreign
                             management employs US workers they can
                             achieve amazing results that US management cannot.
                             I am not prepared to write-off millions of US
                             workers. Those workers made us the economic
                             engine we are today and by continually
                             outsourcing, placing low expectations on them, and
                             taking advantage of them, we are getting what we
                             deserve. I'd rather have 10 poorly educated
                             American workers with a work ethic over 10
                             over-educated Europeans workers who whine all
                             the time and expect lots of time off. BTW,
                             average and median are two different things.
                             I am not sure that 50% of US workers are
                             actually "below average".
                             \_ Spoken like a dumb patriot.
                                \_ Spoken like someone who knows how hard
                                   Americans work. Check out average
                                   work-weeks.
                             \_ They are the bottom 50% lowest paid people.
                                Why do you think they have a strong work
                                ethic? Who knows what they do?  Anyway,
                                there may be a lot of part time workers in
                                those statistics -- part time working parents,
                                or school kids with jobs. The top 50%
                                makes 88% and 12% for the bottom.
                                Without more data to go on, I don't see a
                                reason to get too excited. And I'm not
                                going to do a bunch of research right now.
                                \_ 1. I've actually been in the workplace
                                      and seen that salary does not
                                      correlate to work ethic
                                   2. Just look at the statistics for
                                      number of hours worked per week
                                   3. If you don't see a problem with half
                                      the country making 12% of the income
                                      then there's no hope for you anyway.
                                      You got yours, right?
                                   \_ 1. Work ethic isn't good enough. You
                                         can work hard but if you're stupid
                                         or otherwise not valuable it does
                                         not mean jack. There are billions
                                         of people on Earth and merely
                                         working N hours isn't very valuable.
                                         \_ I beg to differ. If you're willing
                                            to work hard there's a lot of
                                            inherent value in that even if
                                            you're stupid. Someone has to
                                            build roads, harvest crops, work
                                            the cash register, and so on.
                                            \_ But anybody can work that cash
                                               register. That's the point.
                                               There is no scarcity of bodies
                                               willing to do unskilled work
                                               for a few bucks. Therefore
                                               the value is low. Supply and
                                               demand.
                                               \_ Anybody can work it. Not
                                                  everyone has the work
                                                  ethic to show up on time
                                                  and do it for 8 hours
                                                  per day 250 days per year.
                                                  You can't say "well that's
                                                  without value". It is wasting
                                                  \_ If it had real value it
                                                     wouldn't be underpaid. duh
                                                     \_ You don't really
                                                        believe this do you?
                                                        The price pressures are
                                                        external to the US
                                                        markets. Think of
                                                        how much $$$ we could
                                                        save by outsourcing our
                                                        management for
                                                        lower-paid foreign
                                                        management instead
                                                        of saying that a
                                                        person making $9/hour
                                                        is overpaid because
                                                        someone in India can do
                                                        the job for $1/hour.
                                                        We could save more
                                                        by cutting that 88%
                                                        of earners versus
                                                        putting more pressure
                                                        on the 12% half.
                                                        \_ The companies are
                                                           run/owned by these
                                                           88%. You can't cut
                                                           them. The entire
                                                           point is they are
                                                           not drones being
                                                           told what to do by
                                                           somebody higher up.
                                                           They are the top.
                                                           Responsibility.
                                                     What world do you live in
                                                     which is full of fuckups
                                                     who can't even show up
                                                     to an easy job? Working
                                                     \_ The real world. I
                                                        can tell you never
                                                        managed low-level
                                                        employees before.
                                                     the Safeway cash register
                                                     is air conditioned and
                                                     they can take breaks.
                                                     You don't need one person
                                                     to do it 250 days a year
                                                     either, there are shifts.
                                                     \_ You need *someone*
                                                        there 250 days per year
                                                        when they say they
                                                        are going to be there.
                                                        Compare to Europe where
                                                        such employees make
                                                        more to do less.
                                                        \_ Why Europe? Try
                                                           a country without
                                                           a generous benefits
                                                           which make work
                                                           effectively
                                                           unnecessary.
                                                  a valuable resource in a
                                                  menial task that could be
                                                  doing something less menial
                                                  if big business realized it
                                                  and took advantage of
                                                  it. This is what US
                                                  management overlooks and
                                                  foreign management does not.
                                                  They know how valuable it is,
                                                  because they don't have that.
                                                  Addendum: Have you noticed
                                                  that as salaries have fallen
                                                  (due to global competition
                                                  and outsourcing) that jobs
                                                  that "anyone can do" are
                                                  being done poorly? I had to
                                                  call AT&T and I was ready to
                                                  praise God when I finally was
                                                  transferred to a CSR in
                                                  Atlanta versus an "anyone" in
                                                  India and the Philippines.
                                                  But supposedly this American
                                                  is overpaid and needs to
                                                  be outsourced when earning
                                                  her share of 12% of the
                                                  income in the country.  BS.
                                                  \_ No I haven't noticed
                                                     that. AT&T does not give
                                                     a shit about CSRs because
                                                     you're still their
                                                     customer and their
                                                     competition also has crap
                                                     CSRs. I pick low price vs
                                                     good CSRs every time. You
                                                     should pay extra for your
                                                     precious CSRs. Also: you
                                                     are assuming that CSR is
                                                     bottom 50% -- unfounded.
                                                     But hey, they need no
                                                     education and only need
                                                     to be able to communicate.
                                                     You have a weird worldview
                                                     if you think that alone
                                                     deserves top-50% income.
                                                     \_ It doesn't deserve
                                                        top-50% income.
                                                        What it deserves
                                                        is more than 12%
                                                        of the pie.
                                                        \_ Why? They mostly
                                                           are living just
                                                           fine, and better
                                                           than billions.
                                      2. see above
                                      3. It's not half the country, it's half
                                         the income tax filers.  Did you go
                                         to school?  I don't remember everyone
                                         having a strong work ethic. We're in
                                         a globalized economy where people's
                                         simple jobs of the past are more
                                         cheaply done by foreigners who are
                                         cheaper and more motivated. That said
                                         most people in this country still live
                                         very well even with low wages.
                                         \_ So your argument is that there
                                            are a lot of retirees and students
                                            skewing the statistics? I find that
                                            hard to believe. Regardless, those
                                            people need to survive, too.
                                            Just because someone is retired
                                            doesn't mean their income can go to
                                            zero.
                                            \_ We haven't talked about their
                                               income going to 0. We've talked
                                               about their share of the income
                                               pie. The pie is pretty huge.
                                               \_ All the more disgusting that
                                                  the top 5% get most of it.
                                                  \_ They create most of it.
                                                     \_ You don't really
                                                        believe that do you?
                                                        Are they valuable?
                                                        Yes. Are they
                                                        generating value-added
                                                        commensurate with
                                                        income? No. How many
                                                        CEOs rake in millions
                                                        while their companies
                                                        (and share price) go
                                                        into the toilet?
                                                        http://tinyurl.com/8n8ro
                                                        I would argue McNealy
                                                        gets a pass for what
                                                        he's done for the
                                                        company, but maybe
                                                        not. Do companies pay
                                                        for past success or
                                                        present results?
                                                        \_ But look at the
                                                           long term growth.
                                                           Long term economic
                                                           growth is phenomenal
                                                           and all the drones
                                                           benefit from this.
                        The drones do not benefit from  _/
                        this. The average wage for American
                        workers has not gone up since
                        the 70s. For workers with no
                        college degree, it has actually
                        gone down.
                        \_ I don't think wages tell the whole story. Would you
                           rather live with an average wage in an average town
                           in 1975 or now?
                           Does that wage figure include "supplemental
                           compensation" like health insurance, retirement
                           plans, and social security payments made by
                           employers?  Or the quality of health care? Or
                           technological advancements such as cell phones
                           and PCs?
                           This report is interesting:
                http://www.bea.gov/scb/pdf/2008/07%20July/D-Pages/0708dpg_d.pdf
                           Check out "Supplements to wages and salaries" as a
                           percentage of national income.
                           And consider:
                           Population went from 200M to 300M since 1970,
                           and the global economy is much more competitive.
                           \_ The gains have almost entirely gone to the top:
                http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2006prel.pdf
                              Look at the chart labled "Real Annual Income
                              Growth by Groups" I don't think that increases
                              in the cost of health insurance really should be
                              considered as increases in the standard of
                              living, though perhaps I would feel differently
                              if I was in bad health.
                              \_ Well, ok. But the population size has grown
                                 tremendously and a huge number are foreign
                                 born.  The economy has accommodated them
                                 and still grown.  By 2050, 1 in 5 of the US
                                 population is projected to be hispanic.
                                 This part is interesting:
                                 "The evidence suggests that top incomes
                                 earners today are not "rentiers" deriving
                                 their incomes from past wealth but rather are
                                 "working rich," highly paid employees or new
                                 entrepreneurs"
                                 Massive immigration and global competition
                                 depressed wage growth for the lower groups.
                                 Jobs that are more independent of this type
                                 of competition see big gains, like doctors.
                                 The best thing for the lower classes here
                                 would be to improve conditions in Mexico
                                 and have a lower population growth there.
                                 I guess this brings us back to the
                                 global inequality/barbarians in Rome theory.
                                 \_ I am in agreement with you.
           \_ No! The standard of living has improved in every segment
              of wealth and it's none of your business to implement
              progressive tax, that's COMMUNISM!!!      -libertarian
              \_ I said I'm not pro-tax. I don't necessarily think raising
                 taxes solves any problems. It just seems to make
                 government larger. It doesn't really help anyone.
                 However, what other ways can we address this inequality?
                 \_ Inequality has never been a problem throughout the
                    history of empires. The Roman emperors knew that long
                    time ago. As long as the populace has bread (beer+pizza)
                    and circus (football, plasma), there will never be
                    issues for the governing party.
                    \_ So how did that whole Rome thing work out for them?
                       \_ It worked quite well for a very, very long time.
                          The US is a young nation in comparison.
                          \_ How can you say inequality was not a problem with
                             a straight face when it caused the entire
                             Western civilization to collapse into
                             centuries of Dark Ages?
                             \_ My point is as long as people have bread
                                and circuses there will not be a problem.
                                panem et circenses.
                                \_ My point is that your point is wrong,
                                   because Rome fell and set the world
                                   back at least 500 years, if not more,
                                   as a result. So clearly there were some
                                   problems.
                                   \_ Your notion that Rome's fall was the
                                      fault just of "inequality" is silly.
                                      There was no one single thing. There
                                      were huge tribal migrations, plagues,
                                      climate changes (hey hey), cultural
                                      turbulence with Christianity and then
                                      Islam etc. Rome kept going in the east
                                      anyway... if the world was set back
                                      then that probably goes back to the
                                      fall of the Republic and onset of
                                      Christianity.
                                      \_ Especially since early Rome was not
                                         especially egalitarian, with slaves,
                                         very restricted citizenship rights,
                                         etc., but it flourished just fine.
                                         \_ Actually, inequality was probably
                                            the greatest contributor. Why?
                                            Because the barbarians wanted
                                            what Rome had and because Rome
                                            consumed more resources than it
                                            could honestly produce sustainably
                                            except through conquest (sound
                                            familiar?). It was only late
                                            in the game that the Romans
                                            started to grant citizenship
                                            to foreigners in an effort to
                                            prevent a total collapse as it
                                            became more and more difficult
                                            to defend the far-flung Empire
                                            from people ticked off at their
                                            inequitable treatment so that
                                            wealthy Romans could have
                                            gold-plated toilets. Inequality
                                            here doesn't refer to classes
                                            within Roman citizenry as much as
                                            it does inequality between Romans
                                            and the rest of the world,
                                            including occupied territories and
                                            Roman residents never granted
                                            citizenship.
                             \_ And here I thought it was the Barbarians
                                that sacked Rome.
                                \_ I can only shake my head in disbelief at
                                   this statement.
                                   \_ What, you think the Romans sacked
                                      themselves? It was the Visigoths, in
                                      410.
                                      \_ Forest for the trees, dude.
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    

2008/4/3-9 [Finance/Shopping, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:49656 Activity:nil
4/3     What is cheapest parking near Embarcadero / Montgomery BART?
        Yes I know this is a weird question.
        \_ The St. Mary's Square garage was last I checked (2006).
           Anything at about $20 is good.
           Anything at about $20 is good (north of Market).
        \_ No, it is not weird at all. You can park in SOMA, at 2nd and
           Folsom, for $12/day. The address is 303 2nd St. You can park
           one block further away at 600 Harrison St, for $10/day. The
           area is mildly seedy after dark, but mostly safe these days. -ausman
2007/12/20-29 [Finance/Shopping] UID:48846 Activity:low
12/20   anyone got a source of good looking free clip art for network
        diagram type stuff, suitable for use in Inkscape or Opendraw?
        Yes I am too cheap to buy Visio.
        \_ Doesn't this question come up about every other week?
           \_ It sure does!  I tried Inkscape, couldn't handle it.
        \_ too cheap for visio, but are you cheap enough to use xfig ?
           google for 'network diagram' and 'linux' and you'll find a host of
           other free options too.
        \_ http://www.openclipart.org
2007/12/5-7 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:48748 Activity:high
12/4    Fed's guide to save the economy (feel free to add):
        -print more money
        -lower interest rate
        \_ that sounds more like a recipe for inflation to me.
           \_ Inflation might save the economy by allowing us to pay back
              debts with cheap dollars. In fact, I think this is the idea.
              \_ Is there a less painful way to get rid of the huge debt than
                 inflating it to insignificance?
           \_ Exactly. Inflation isn't always bad from the government's
              perspective. Inflation has worked before, and it'll work again.
        -finish collapsing the dollar so we can switch to the Amero!
        - Bushonomics in action
          \_ What exactly is Bushonomics? More tax cuts? Unlikely in
             the light of the Federal deficit.
             \_ Massive deficit spending, tax cuts, more defence spending.
                Continuing to drive down the value of the dollar in hopes
                of closing the trade gap.
                \_ How are we supposed to close the trade gap when the US
                   doesn't actually produce much that the world wants to buy?
                   Start selling US properties?
                   \_ Developing countries buying US properties is an
                      interesting situation. By buying a US asset, they
                      are effectively investing in the US economy, instead
                      of their own. Buying a US asset or US services pumps
                      money into the US economy.
                      Obviously, if US stuff was cheap enough the world
                      would want to buy it. They already buy lots of our
                      big ticket items like jumbo jets, large industrial
                      equipment, etc. Most Chinese manufacturing is not
                      so specialized that you couldn't just do it here if
                      it was cost effective.
                      \_ It will never be as cost effective, because the
                         US cares more about worker rights, the
                         environment, consumer safety, and so on.
                         \_ Never is a long time.
        -Start a new war
        -Stop foreclosures by bailing out dumb asses.
2007/11/29-12/6 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas, Finance/Shopping, Finance/Banking] UID:48711 Activity:nil
11/29   I just found out that I am American Indian.  The White Man took
        away my ancestors' ancestral lands, stuck them in camps, you know,
        the usual.  I am perfectly functional member of society.  What
        are some cool ways I can take advantage of my status?  Can I
        get cheap loans?  Grants?  ok tnx.
        \_ What percentage and what tribe?  I understand that With some tribes
           you can get grants, or casino funds.  I think for most tribes you
           don't get jack.  But, IANAI.
        \_ Become an alcoholic.
        \_ Can you prove it? There are lots of Native Americans who cannot
           prove that they are because of poor documentation. If you can't
           prove it then forget it.
        \_ Live on the Res.
        \_ Tell us what tribe and I might be able to tell you your chances of
           getting anything from this, but: you need to be enrolled, the tribe
           doesn't have to enroll you even if you qualify on paper, most tribes
           with money require that you live on the res and despite what some
           motd posters think, the typical tribe member is not sitting in that
           casino hotel jacuzzi snorting coke with $100 bills.
           \_ Are you crazy? Try $20 bills.
2007/1/17-25 [Finance/Shopping] UID:45557 Activity:nil
1/17    What's the cheapest and most effective way to monitor your credit?
        My CC company is offering an Identity Protection program where they
        monitor your credit every day for $9.95/month. Is there anything
        cheaper than this?
2006/11/10-12 [Recreation/Dating, Finance/Shopping] UID:45317 Activity:high
11/10   Hi sodans.  Engagement rings again.  What do people think of a 0.70
        carat ring at http://bluenile.com for $2,500 (+$500=$3K for setting)?  Will
        her parents think I'm cheap?  My SO has indicated that she would rather
        spend the money on something useful (car, crap, etc.).  Do women really
        want 1 carat minimum?  I know about Apollo Diamond, but it's not
        mature (ob blood diamond discussion).  Also, is a Signature Ideal
        diamond really that much better than a Very Good cut diamond?  Thanks.
        \_ It's fine.  Be glad you found a women that has a bit more
           sense than just how big a ring you can give her.  Why would it
           matter what her parents think?  I bought my wife something
           similar to what you are thinking of getting.  Out of the
           four C's, I go for cut, color, clarity, and carat in that
           order.  The better cut does give a better "fire".
        \_ I bought my wife's engagement ring for less than $300 and wedding
           ring for less than $1k.  Now *that* was cheap.  We put the money on
           properties, cars (not fancy ones) and savings instead.
        \_ Before you buy anything, check out the past discussions on "debeers"
           and "De Beers" in the MOTD archive.
           \_ We have synthetic diamonds now.  Screw De Beers. -!op
              \_ If someone came up with a process to create diamond rings
                 for like $100 that match today's $3000 ones, would people
                 still value giving those?
                 \_ I hope not.  Down with jewlrey!
              \_ Yeah.  But from the MOTD archive, De Beer "also started a PR
                 program to convince people that synthetic diamonds are like
                 cheating by buying a cubic zirconia and that if you really
                 love your woman you'll get her a 'real' diamond."  So don't
                 fall to that BS.
                 love your woman you'll get her a 'real' diamond."
                 \_ If you really love your woman, you'll buy her this jar
                    filled with the blood of african children killed so that
                    rich people can show off their bad taste. $3000 OBO.
                    \_ You know, It actually would not be crazy to try to start
                       something where one pays 3000 dollars for a 100 dollar
                       piece of jewlery plus a 2900 dollar loan/grant to a
                       non-diamond related African business.  If this caught
                       on, men could avoid being called cheap, but have a net
                       positive effect instead of net negative effect on the
                       African economy.
                       \_ You're insane.  Yes, let's buy milk bottle rings
                          for our wives and send millions of dollars every
                          year to stuff the pockets of which corrupt what?
                          Seriously, you're either a troll or you've never
                          had a girlfriend.
                    \_ GO DE BEAH!
        \_ Her parents have nothing to do with it.  If you still care about
           her/your/anyone else's opinion on how you live your life at this
           level you're likely not ready for a serious relationship.  It is
           none of their business.  You should talk with her about it.  As far
           as size of the stone goes, see above about the 4 Cs.  Cut is most
           important because that is the shape of the stone.  Good color and
           clarity will make whatever you have look better.  Carat count
           beyond about .5 or .6 is all about showing off to the Jones'.
           Unless you're marrying the Jones' or her parents don't worry about
           that.  Also, most marriages that end in divorce do so because of
           money problems.  Don't spend a zillion bucks on a rock and a party
           just to get divorced 6 months later because you're broke and every
           penny spent is a big fight.
        \_ Do you get one diamond engagement ring plus a diamond wedding ring
           later? Or is that the same ring? Also, I thought you're supposed to
           have the ring when you propose, not discuss it.
           \_ The wedding ring is not supposed to have a rock in it.  It's
              supposed to be a band, representing eternity.  Maybe op should
              get a mobious strip ring.
              \_ Typically engagement ring has the diamond.  Your fiance
                 wears that between your engagement until your wedding
                 day.  She doesn't wear that ring at the ceremony because
                 the wedding band is suppose to go on first.  Something
                 to do with "closer to the heart."  She slips the
                 engagement ring back on (band first, then ring) after
                 the ceremony.
                 \_ ok thanks, I guess I was always a bit confused about that
                 \_ And of course, it's common to get them as a set so they can
                    be welded together after the wedding.
                    \- ObDeBeers=EvilFuckers:
               http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/Politics/DeBeers=Evil.txt
                       \_ I agree. I think it's silly to buy diamonds.
                          Fortunately I married a woman who agrees. -pp
        \_ After all that is being said and the evil of De Beer.  Do
           keep in mind, that 20 years down the road, the diamond will
           still be a diamond, but other things that you might have
           bought with the diamond money, such as that plasma TV, the
           killer laptop, will probably be out of service and money
           down the toilet. ;)
           \_ Of course, if you invested, 20 years down the road you will
              probably have doubled your money.
              \- "a diamond is still a diamond" is not an argument.
                 part of the "problem" with diamonds ... again de beers
                 is partly responsible ... is there is no real secondary
                 mkt for diamonds. while the diamond is durable [assuming it
                 doesnt get stolen or lost], it isnt liquid. given that
                 a "used" diamond should be as good as a new diamond,
                 it's the depressed value of "used" diamonds that is
                 interesting [compare to high value of "used" DVDs].
                 3.5% return = double money in 20yrs. [ob nominal/real
                 disclaimer]
                 \_ Or put another way: The TV depreciates over a few years,
                    the diamond depreciates instantly!
                    \- that's a compelling way of putting it. and gives me an
                       excuse to contrast it to the depreciation of other
                       things. shoes get worn out. tv also gets worn out but
                       more importantly quality goes up and prices fall.
                       in the case of a car, it wears out, the quality goes
                       up, and there is the mkt for lemons informations
                       up, and there is the mkt for lemons information
                       aysmmetry problems [you dont know if the car has
                       been in an accident ... not generally a problem
                       with TVs ... although it is true TVs unlike cars
                       dont have an odometer ... on the other hand a tv
                       pretty much jut does one thing: have a picture,
                       which cars have transmission, tires, body, cosmetic
                       issues suspension etc]. so really a diamond is sort
                       of like a DVD ... it really doesnt wear out and what
                       you see should be what you get [minus the small chance
                       the DVD is scratch ... but surely you can get a
                       guarantee it will play fine]. but a DVD really doesnt
                       depreciate much at all! and the diamond is something
                       you would expect would hardly depreciate ... it doesnt
                       get worn out, they dint get cheaper or better over
                       time, there isnt much info asymmetry [except maybe
                       some chance it is stolen ... not also the very idea
                       of "used vs new gold" is silly], it's price would be
                                   the panda says "no!" _/
                                       \- http://csua.org/u/hfz
                       determined by the double coincidence of wants
                       [finding somebody who wants that size/cut etc] ...
                       again the same as a DVD [think about regional codings
                       fucking up the secondary mkt]. so the immense
                       depreciation can only be explained by factors outside
                       the depreciation of the product itself, i.e. debeers.
                       [for the DVD contrast, compre the price of used DVDs
                       to the amazon new price, for popular selections.
                       not also the negative premium for non-USA region
                       DVDs].
        \_ The only reason diamonds cost so much is because everyone else
           wants them (because of advertisements that suggest bigger diamond==
           commitment), and there is a strict control of supply set by the
           diamond cartel. If diamonds were mined and sold in a completely
           free market the price would plummet to less than 1/10 of its
           current value right now.
                   \- it's more complicated than debeers just pushing bigger
                      diamonds. they push different trends based on what part
                      of the stock they want to push. like going from large
                      solitares to 3 smaller stones past/present/future rings
                      because a large number of smaller diamonds came on line.
                      read the home.lbl.gov link.
           \_ Episode from South Park: Kyle asks his dad for money to
              buy the latest and greatest Chinpokemon toy. His dad explains
              that it is a fad and he doesn't have to be a part of it. In
              fact he can make an even stronger statement by saying that
              he's an individual. Kyle responds "Yes I understand. Now let
              me tell you how it works in the real world. In the real world,
              I can either get a Chinpokomon, or I can be the only kid
              without one, which singles me out, and causes the other kids
              to make fun of me and kick my ass." Dad agrees and gives him
              money.
                My advice to you-- yes DeBeers is evil, but so are many
              corporations and cartels out there. Get the fucking diamond
              anyways. You seriously don't want to be an outcast or a weirdo
              and be ridiculed in the society, do you?
                  \- this is why guys not in a bind and before The Ring becomes
                     an issue should give Liberal girls a hard time about the
                     acceptability of diamonds. look at furs ... nobody i know
                     under at least 45 is expected to buy the wife a fur ...
                     at least not in northern california. do any normal women
                     under say 45 own +$5000 fur coats? ... i dont include
                     people from texas or people who own +$1000 chihuahuas,
                     but i do include people with multimillion dollars who
                     clearly could afford it. even a ridculously expensive
                     watch is better. in fact next time i see some women
                     friends of mine, i'll have to bring it up.
           \_ Is there 10x the supply of diamonds that there is of, say,
              emeralds or rubies?
                       \- De Beers bot controls the supply [by stockpiling
                       \- De Beers both controls the supply [by stockpiling
                          the production, as well as conrolling access
                          to high high end stone to high high end
                          jewelers] but also doesnt a lot of work on
                          jewelers] but also does a lot of work on
                          the demand side ... and i think what they
                          do on the demand side is kinda sleazy.
                          it's one thing to advertise something like
                          car to an adult ... he should be able to
                          control his spending urges. but in he case
                          of diamonds for something like engagement
                          rings, it puts the man in this weird position
                          [as per the OP ... "will my inlaws think i am
                          cheep"] and is in a sense not fighting fair.
                          just like there is a sleaziness marketing say
                          junk food to kids so they will cause a scene
                          at the airport ... except this is more indsidious
                          since at least society would back if not
                          encourage the parent's right to fight the
                          peopel advertising to their kids. a guys
                          cant really himself bring up "dont be a de beers"
                          to his fiancee.
                          to his fiancee. i guess he could give her a
                          copy of one of the "debeers expose" books ...
                          [i consider it a good deed to talk about
                          debeers with liberal fiancee's of friends]
2006/10/31-11/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Shopping] UID:45050 Activity:high
10/31   10 part "Economics for the Citizen." (very basic)
        http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503g.asp
        \_ My summary from reading the intro and the last paragraph-- there
           is a cost of doing something, and there is a cost of not doing
           something. In most cases one will be more costly than the others,
           but it is often not so clear which one is cheaper/costlier at the
           time that you needed to make a decision.
        \_ The long version (by Sowell)
           http://csua.org/u/hbx
           \_ The short version: "THE INVISIBLE HAND IS ALL-POWERFUL!
              LALALALALA!"
              \_ Let me guess, you like big government beauracracy and wastage?
                 \_ Let me guess, you like knocking down straw men?
              \_ Fuck you talking 'bout? --Da Invisible Hand
        \_ He's a bit of a male chauvinist, isn't he?
           \_ You mean how he beliddles his wife, something else?
2006/10/7-10 [Finance/Shopping] UID:44715 Activity:nil
10/7    All the Tower Records will close. Liquidation and cheap items now.
        \_ how cheap? (how much is a typical CD album going for?)
2006/7/11-18 [Finance/Shopping] UID:43634 Activity:nil
7/11    Hi Im shopping for a new phone contract.  I want a cool phone.
        I'm also cheap.  What should I do?  Are there cool stuff
        on Amazon?
        \_ 1. what do you mean by "cool?"  do you want phone that looks good?
          ultra thin?  or you want your phone dubbed as a mp3 player? PDA?
          do you want MMS?  do you want download email, look up something
          on the web? and use your phone as a dial-up modem when no WIFI
          hotspot is available?
          2. you said you are cheap.  but you need to put things into
          perspective. Retail wise, a decent phone cost between $200-300.
          Cheap model cost about $100.  You will not find anything
          significantly cheaper than $100 unless you are willing to go for
          TCL or Bird.  Any decent PDA phone is going to cost you roughly
          the same as a cheap laptop.   Bare that in mind, you can think
          about how much a carrier is willing to subsidize, you can come up
          with a reasonable budget for a phone.
2006/5/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Finance/Shopping] UID:42989 Activity:low
5/9     Dear motd. Suppose a friend wants to maximize his wedding plans and
        would like to get the biggest bang for the bucks. He would like to
        invite as many people to the banquet as possible without
        losing too much money and without pissing people off. The only way
        to do so is by having the wedding back in Asia, which is not an
        option for him since most of his friends are in California. He's
        thinking about inviting as many close friends as possible so that
        red envelopes would recoup some of the costs, while minimizing
        the number of non-Asian people since they rarely give red envelopes.
        By the way I don't want to get into the whole topic of why many
        Americans we've met are so culturally insensitive, ignorant,
        careless, and rude that they give gifts instead of traditional
        auspicious red envelopes with amounts that at least recoup the
        cost of the wedding banquet. We especially want to avoid inviting
        non-Asians people who may unknowingly give really really cursed
        items like clocks, knives, and things that end up with the number
        four, or uneven number of things-- one more reason to not invite
        non-Asians. Anyways, depending on the quality of food and where he
        holds the banquet, each table is ~$500 for 10 people, and if he
        invites too many non-Asians he'll end up losing a lot of money and
        have bad luck. What's the best way to go about this? Is it ok to
        invite everyone to the vow thing and then exclude non-Asians to the
        banquet as to decrease bad luck and increase overall fortune of
        the year? Thanks so much for any advice.
        the year? Thanks so much for any advice.
        \_ This is clearly a simple optimization problem with several variables
           and a few unknown constants.  We who study this problems cannot help
           because your unknown constants cannot be determined without the a
           certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural anthropoligist.
           If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more money in terms of lost
           gifts than would be recouped by Red Envelopes, then you must avoid
           inviting Asians at all.  Don't forget you could always sell the gifts
           on E-bay.  The tricky part comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts.
           Just how much income will you lose from dieing early if given a small clock
           vs. a large clock. This we cannot know.  Now to be serious.
           Weddings are for your family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard.
           certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural
           anthropoligist.  If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more
           money in terms of lost gifts than would be recouped by Red
           Envelopes, then you must avoid inviting Asians at all.  Don't
           forget you could always sell the gifts on E-bay.  The tricky part
           comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts.  Just how much income will
           you lose from dieing early if given a small clock vs. a large clock.
           This we cannot know.  Now to be serious.  Weddings are for your
           family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard.
           \_ 80 column your ass, you inconsiderate bastard.
        \_ Your friend's mentality is completely fucked up and completely
           misinterperate the tradition.
           The way it suppose to work is actually rather simple.  At the
           front of the benquet, there is typically a team of three or four
           that acted as account receivable.  As soon as the guest give out
           the envelope, the account receivable will 1. OPEN THE ENVELOPE,
           COUNT THE MONEY HE/SHE GAVE, and 2. write down how much he/she gave
           out in the "income statement."
           Why keep such record?  because when it's his/her turn to get
           married,  you typically give the same amount back as SOCIAL NORM
           dictates.
           In other word.  The tradition is designed to, effectively, lend
           the money to the new couples, when they need the money the most,
           and return the money to him/her when it's their turn to get married.
           The only exception to the rule is that you happened to have some
           rich friends and you happens to be poor.  The tradition allow
           the wealthy to channel the funds to those in needs without having
           the recipein losing face.
           The social norm dictates that if you are out of town and have little
           chance to attend other's wedding, then, don't have such banquet.
           or says flat out in the invitation that red envelopes will NOT be
           accepted.   and Yes, having such statement in the invitation is not
           as uncommon as you think.
           In short, stop being a cheap bastard in the name of tradition.
                                                kngharv

           \_ Hang on--this doesn't make sense.  So let's say I'm single and
              I "lend" $100 to my newlywed friend in his time of greatest
              financial need as a wedding "gift".  If I ever get married,
              according to your setup, he would simply be "repaying" me if
              he gave me $100 as a gift, not "lending" to me in my time of
              greatest financial need.  How about, if you're going to give
              a cash gift, just look at it as just that, a gift?  -John
              \_ You are right.  It is cash gift.  But there is an unspoken
                 rule that when it's your turn to get married, he/she will
                 also gives you the money in return.  How he determine
                 how much he is going to give you?  he digs out the income
                 statement and look at how much you gave the last time and
                 start from there.  There are a lot of factors involved and
                 I was simplifying it to make a point.  What are other factors?
                 the place where he/she held banquet, for example.  Normally
                 we try to rough guess how much each head cost in a particular
                 place and try to make sure the margin I made on my wedding
                 is roughly the same margin he is going to make.  There is no
                 hard rule here.  People is not going to hold anything against
                 you if you forgot to factor in, for example, inflations.
                 Because a wedding invitation == money.  There is a phenomenon
                 which you may find interesting.  It is typically for a bride/
                 groom to have couple extra tables, and there will be people
                 come to the banquet uninvited.   The logic behind such
                 uninvited guest is following:"you may think you and I don't
                 know each other well enough for you to ask money for me, but
                 I felt I am good enough friend for you and thus I will attend
                 your banquet, give you my blessing and of course cash gift."
                 fun?                                   kngharv
              \_ Ok let's say I give $100 to my friend and 10 years passed
                 and it's my turn to get married. Should he give me $100 plus
                 inflation rate? Also what if I get married 10 times, is that
                 fair?
                 \_ If you get married 10 times, you need all the help you
                    can get...
        \_ Don't invite these people to the wedding at all.  Instead,
           hold a party for all your friends a few weeks afterwards (or
           whenever you're recovered from the wedding).  It'll be much
           cheaper, they won't feel obligated to give you gifts you don't
           want, and everyone will probably have more fun anyway.
           \_ Yes but in the Chinese tradition, the more the merrier.
        \_ There are really two things at work here: a) you're a cheapass
           bastard, and b) you're a superstitious bastard.  Why should the
           motd work for you if you're not going to do anything for the motd
           in return?
        \_ You should have listened to your mom:  Study more and stop hanging
           around with those white folk.  Bad for grades!
           \_ Now that I'm older, I know better :( Mommy says the whities
              I hang around with blow all their incomes on pleasure instead
              of real estate, do drugs, and don't study. I'm a bad son. -op
        \_ True (sad) story:
           I gave a set of really expensive knives as a wedding gift to
           one of my best friends. Within a year his wife had filed for
           divorce and shortly after that (before the divorce even went
           through) she died in a car accident. I am not superstitious,
           but lots of people told me knives are 'bad' gifts. I won't try
           that again. By the way, your post is a poor attempt at a troll.
           \_ Is your friend Chinese? Whether it's your fault or not, one
              thing is certain: the Chinese community gossips a lot, and
              most of them by now think that you're an yang chi idiot and
              will not invite you to their weddings.
           \_ Jesus H. Christ are really such an egotist that you think
              any of this bad luck had anything to do with what YOU bought
              as a wedding gift?
              \_ "I am not superstitious". No, I don't. However, when
                 there are so many other gifts to give, I won't chance it.
                 \_ "I'm not superstitious, I just won't step on cracks in
                    the sidewalk."  -tom
                    \_ I did once and my mother's back broke. Why chance it?
                 \_ The only reason I wouldn't give someone a knife as a
                    wedding gift is think how bad I'd feel if there was
                    a really bad fight and a spouse stabbed the other
                    with the knife I bought.  Don't give weapons as gifts.
        \_ Ditto above about the troll, but generally, a lot of us hairy
           barbarian gwailo gaijin types don't know about these superstitions,
           and I find it pretty interesting to learn this sort of stuff.
           Maybe include a little primer or something?  Or would people find
           that condescending?  And not to sound insensitive, but do you (pp)
           really blame the knives?  -John
           \_ Red envelopes are very auspicious. But you can't just put in
              ANY money, you have to put in nice clean bills, as a sign of
              purity. The amount must be even number, and the term
              "double happiness" should be reflected. $22, $222, $2222 are
              extremely good. Also ba, the number 8 is VERY VERY good. $88,
              $888 are very good. Never, ever, give things that have 4 in
              them, because it is just one tone away from the word death.
              Wedding registry gifts-- they're ok if the Chinese guy is a
              total ignorant banana in which case anything goes, so better
              ask if the groom/bride are ABC bananas. NEVER, EVER give knives
              and clocks unless you want the gossipy Chinese community
              to hate you for the rest of your life. Clock is the same tone
              as "your demise", or "RIP". And BTW it's not uncommon to not
              invite whities to Chinese banquets because often they have
              exotic food that piss off foreigners, or that the foreigners
              start to become annoying and authoritative and ask silly
              questions about the food (you just don't question their
              culture, just accept it at the wedding ok?). So if you're a
              whitie and you're invited, you should feel proud of yourself
              for making it in the inner circle. Lastly the Chinese culture
              says if you have a vacation home in Santiago Chile you are
              obligated to offer them to use it any time they want. Ok
              that's all I've got for now.      -Motd Culture Consultant #2
              \_ Haha this is actually pretty good, thanks.  As for "not
                 inviting whiteys", I turned the "let's gross out the gaijin
                 for fun" around on a whole Japanese restaurant in Tokyo
                 once, where they all somehow felt honor-bound to choke down
                 the live-fish-in-sake they served us just because I chugged
                 them instead of making a face and sending them back.  That'll
                 show 'em, HAH.  Anyway, I thought not inviting gwailos was
                 just because we're funny looking and weird.  So what would
                 be kosher non-monetary gifts then?  -John
              \_ So what if you give them four knives?  Do they run away
                 screaming? ;-)
              \_ This is very helpful. I kind of knew this stuff but my
                 Chinese friends never actually explained it. Those assholes.
                 They just let me infer it. So I'm gonna give them a set of
                 4 knives which each have a little digital clock in the handle.
                 Actually, they probably wouldn't give a shit. So I'll send
                 them to their mothers ;)
                 \_ Yes. Most ABC bananas today don't give a shit. But
                    their parents will probably have a heart attack.
                    So, be nice.
           \_ I think John's hit this one on the nose. Turn this into an
              educational experience. If some westerners consider giving
              money too crass, then they shouldn't come. The point of a
              wedding is to celebrate your love, not their cultural comfort
              zone. Also, those red (or, in Japan, white) envelopes really
              help with the cost. --erikred
           \_ FYI, Japanese gives out red envelopes on weddings too.
        \_ have a wedding you can afford.  Your guests aren't there to pay
           for your wedding you cheapass asian.  -frugal asian
        \_ why don't you have two banquets, Eastern and Western style
           invite each guest to the appropriate one.
           \_ Best idea I've seen so far. Invite friends and family to
              the nice exclusive banquet with exotic gourmet shark fins,
              dog meat, intestines, liver, and bobas while excluding
              foreigners who may feel offended or grossed out. Then invite
              the white people over to your backyard for BBQ, cheap beer,
              and football. Great idea!
              \_ Gwailo not appreciate gourmet shark fin.  All gwailo eat
                 roast cow.  And treat black people bad.  -John
        \_ I had a Vietnamese/white wedding and my wife's family all gave
           red envelopes and my family all gave gifts from the registry.
           But we returned almost all the gifts and got store credit, which
           is almost as good. In white culture you are supposed to give a
           gift which is approximately the same value as the cost of your
           seat at the banquet plus wedding costs, so it is the same tradition,
           almost. -ausman
           \_ What the hell is "white culture"?  Is that like yoghurt?  -John
           \_ why the heck are you registering for items you don't want?  I
              find these fundraising weddings to be really, rather crass.
              \_ I agree, and I think Miss Manners would dispute any
                 inference that you are "supposed" to give any certain
                 value of gift.  If you attend the wedding, you're supposed
                 to send a gift (not *bring* a gift, *send* a gift to
                 the couple afterwards), and as with all gifts, the giver
                 gets to decide how much to spend.  -tom
                 \_ http://tinyurl.com/z8t6t
                    How are these numbers determined. I'm afraid that, as
                    romantic as weddings may be, arriving at the appropriate
                    value for a wedding gift tends to be based on cold, hard
                    economics. If you are attending the wedding, you want to
                    ensure that the value of your gift will cover the cost the
                    hosts will incur by having you in attendance. Think in
                    terms of the type and style of wedding, and where it will
                    be held. What amount do you think will be required to cover
                    the cost of your meal? Obviously, a cake and punch
                    reception in the couple's back yard will cost less than a
                    formal sit down meal in the city's swankiest skyline
                    restaurant. Once you've estimated what it will cost to
                    cover your meal, you'll want to add another "bonus" amount
                    so they actually get a gift in the end, and don't simply
                    recoup the cost of hosting you. Etiquette queens of days
                    gone by would claim that guests should never have to
                    consider the cost's of their host in determining what to
                    give as a gift. True enough, you don't have to run these
                    calculations, but a truly gracious guest is naturally
                    inclined to do so, out of their genuine desire to treat
                    the bride and groom, and to be generous on, what is to the
                    couple a very special occasion.
                 But there is also:
                 http://tinyurl.com/zwcxs
                 "Guests will choose a gift based on their budget and on how
                 well they know you. They are not obligated to cover the cost
                 of their meal and they should not even know how much you paid
                 for your reception. To give out that information is considered
                 bragging and has no bearing on what your guests will give."
                 So I guess there are various schools of thought on this one.
                 \_ I would not truest a website's advice on gift giving,
                    especially one from a industry that profits from such.
              \_ We already have a house we had bought three years before,
                 but lots of people coming to the wedding wanted to buy
                 us gifts anyway. We had to come up with something. We found
                 a few that we actually wanted, but mostly we wanted gift
                 cards, but almost no one in my family gave that, because
                 they have that save attitude as the anonymous flamer that
                 it is really, rather crass. Is it better to have an attic
                 full of stuff you don't want? I really don't see what the
                 point of that is. But yeah, I didn't tell anyone I returned
                 their gift. No point in that. The truth is, there is no
                 "one size fits all cultures" answer to the question. -ausman
                 \_ Until they come over to your house for Thanksgiving and
                    wonder why you are dining on Ikeaware instead of the
                    Limoges china you returned for a big screen TV.
                    \_ If someone gives you Limoges china, why would you
                       not use it?  Unless it's butt-ugly, of course.  -John
                       \_ I know a lot of people who would say that the
                          china is nice, but that they need x and that
                          they can buy x (and probably y and z, too) if
                          they return the china that they will use only
                          twice per year. I think it's low class and
                          tacky (plus, I *like* to break out the china
                          unlike a lot of people) to return expensive
                          gifts in favor of gift cards and that, I suppose,
                          is my point.
2006/3/16-18 [Recreation/Food, Finance/Shopping] UID:42275 Activity:high
3/16    Do you tip in buffet restaurants?  Aside from cabs and restaurants,
        where else do you tip?
        \_ Garbagemen, if they haul something unusual away. Also valets
           and bellhops/skycaps, obviously. Pizza delivery guys. Bartenders.
        \_ Garbagemen, if they haul something unusual away, valets,
           bellhops/skycaps, pizza delivery guys, bartenders, and strippers.
        \_ 5% in a buffet, if I feel generous.
        \_ My gf's family runs a restaurant and this is what she has to say.
           Some customers pay a lot and some don't. Those that pay more get
           special attention and get their food and drinks served faster and
           those that don't, well, her dad spits on their food. So, pay your
           fucking 20% tip if you want a clean meal. PS, I'm only joking.
           Seriously, she say they simply don't have the time or energy
           to keep track who pays how much tip and by law they have to treat
           EVERYONE with the same respect. She rarely remembers who pays
           more or less tip, but the more the better of course. In another
           word, NO ONE GIVES A SHIT. If you have the money and you have
           to ask, just fucking pay 20-30% and forget about it, and if you
           are tight on budget, don't pay. No one's gonna give you special
           treatment for overpaying or hunt you down and call you a cheap ass
           for underpaying tips. Shit. You're a fucking dumb ass.
           \_ yer gf's family runs a buffet restaurant?
           \_ yer gf's family runs a buffet or non-buffet restaurant?
           \_ When you go in to a restaurant and spend $500 you definitely
              get treated better than if you had spent $50. Part of the
              reason is that the servers know that they will probably
              (unless you're a bastard) get a much bigger tip in absolute
              terms, even if not in percentage terms. If you are a regular
              or if you truly appreciated the service, it makes sense to
              tip more as a percentage. My sister has been a GM at many
              fine restaurants (and was a server when in college) and you
              can bet that she remembers specific instances when someone
              was a cheap bastard or when someone was very generous.
              Sometimes she even had the same person as a client again and
              you bet it affected her attitude. However, this is more a case
              of getting stiffed after, say, a $1000 meal (or in one case a
              $10000 wedding party) rather than recalling if some schmoe tipped
              15% or 20% after his once per year birthday dinner where he
              spends $50. --dim
        \_ Let's talk about the legality of tip, and put aside, for now
           issues related to ethics, common courtesy, manner, conventions.
           By law, how much must you tip?
           By law, can the provider give differential treatments based on
           how much tip you gave them in the past?
           Can you go to jail for not paying tips?
           Are you a law abiding citizen even if you never tipped?
           \_ $0, but I've never heard of a law about differential treatment
              based on tips, as long as you don't spit in their food, give
              slow service based on race, or things like that.
        \_ I don't think tips are expected there since you're supposed to
           service yourself there. I would expect that tips are appropriate
           where you can identify a specific indiviual who provided you a
           service and who isn't being paid directly by you.  Taxi-cab driver,
           pizza delivery boy, and hairdesser are examples.
           \_ What if the hairdresser owns its own business, and you do pay it
              directly?
        \_ I have tipped a copy store employee who opened up the store for me
           a few minutes after closing to help me get fliers copied.  I think
           you should tip any exceptional service, and shouldn't feel
           obligated to tip if you feel the service was bad.  Everyone has to
           be paid minimum wage, if you don't feel the service was good you
           absolutely shouldn't tip.  If the manager gets angry at you or
           or something for not tipping, tell him why you didn't.  -mrauser
           \_ Servers do not have to be paid minimum wage, because it is
              expected that they will earn tips :
              http://www.opm.gov/oca/wage/minwage.asp
              \_ If for some reason they don't make enough in tips to cover
                 min wage they have to get compensated up to minuimum wage.
                 However if a server can't make minimum wage on tips they
                 aren't going to last long.
        \_ How many of these threads do we need to have?  If you have any
           social sense/grace at all, these questions are unnecessary.
           \_ I think these are useful.  What if you haven't been tipping
              when it is the custom?
        \_ buffet?  absolutely not.  what prompt service did I insure?  this
           whole tipping thing has gotten out of hand.
           \_ Do you tip for a haircut? I don't think that's for "prompt
              service". I hate that actually but I feel obligated.
              \_ I tip for haircuts.
              \_ Yes because I don't want my hair butchered the next time I
                 go back.  Will they ruin the buffet when they see me coming
                 in the next time?  I don't tip at retail clothing stores or
                 at the post office or the water company either.
                 \_ Tipping rules are based on how people are paid, not on
                    whether or not it will ensure better service.  http://tipping.org
                    is the closest thing to a definitive reference that I've
                    found.  -tom
                    \_ http://tipping.org?  I haven't been there.  Is that one of the
                       sites inhabited by the waiters who say you should tip
                       15% even if they spit in your food and 25% or higher if
                       they bother to refill your water glass?
                       \_ No.  But I see you have your mind made up already,
                          based on nothing other than your own cheapness. -tom
                          \_ You see what you want to see.  I asked a question.
                             Thanks for answering it.  Bite me on the rest.
                          \_ I've seen those sites too.  I'm not cheap, but
                             I don't think "15% as a BARE MINIMUM" is a policy
                             I'm inclined to follow.
                             \_ Then, yes, you are cheap.  Waitstaff salaries
                                are set based on a presumption of a 15% tip.
                                (In the U.S.).  Spending less than that is
                                cheap and a breach of etiquette, no matter
                                what the service was like.  -tom
                                \_ I'm with tom up to a point.  It's also
                                   accepted that if the service was crap, 10%
                                   is reasonable.  That's what I do.  I assume
                                   the person is just having a bad day, even
                                   though I could be totally wrong.
                                \_ And bad/rude service isn't a breach of
                                   etiquette?
                                   \_ Etiquette doesn't allow you to
                                      retaliate for breaches of etiquette. -tom
                                      retaliate for breaches of etiquette.
                                      Or rather, there is an etiquette to the
                                      ways you can retaliate.  -tom
                                \_ I'm also with Tom up to the point of "no
                                   matter what the service was like"--if a
                                   waiter gives you bad service, do not tip.
                                   I've been absolutely flabbergasted at some
                                   of the shit waiters expect people to put up
                                   with.  -John
                          \_ Thanks for answering my question.  You can bite me
                             on your bullshit opinion.  You know nothing.
                 \_ Hair butchered? think about that for a second. if they
                    butcher your hair you won't go back. that is their
                        \_ yes but I still have to wear it for 2+ weeks and
                           people are stupid like that.
                           \_ Well, at worst you could turn it into a buzz.
                              And wear a hat.
                           \_ A good hair salon can fix that, usually.  -John
                    incentive and that's what it should be. Why doesn't
                    the post office let your mail get butchered unless
                    you tip well? It kind of makes sense for services where
                        \_ who would I tip?
                           \_ All of 'em! Leave tips in your mailbox for the
                              mailman, or else the mail is mysteriously
                              in bad shape. Tip the guy at the counter, or
                              else he might just forget about your mail
                              for a few days, or take forever to do what
                              you want. I dunno.
                           \_ Missing the point.
                           \_ the mailman? the guy at the counter?
                              \_ you think if I tip the mm I'll get my
                                 packages delivered faster?  does he not
                                 earn enough?  a long time ago in a place far
                                 far away when the mailman went door to door
                                 and most people knew theirs by name my parents
                                 gave them christmas gifts and such but I've
                                 got a new one every day, they drive by in a
                                 jeep and all they deliver is junk mail
                                 anyway.  :)
                                 \_ Heh. well, according to the hair-butchering
                                    theory, maybe the mailman should be losing
                                    and/or damaging and/or stealing yer mail...
                                    actually that reminds me, last year I had
                                    a package I absolutely needed the same day,
                                    but missed the mailman, so I drove around
                                    the neighborhood and eventually found the
                                    guy. It was the first time I'd talked to
                                    him ever, but he knew our house and
                                    we had a nice little chat. He was a little
                                    odd, but he's a postal employee so that was
                                    to be expected. Nice guy. I don't see why
                                    they shouldn't be getting stuff while
                                    others do. Then again my current mailman
                                    always delivers the previous tenant's mail
                                    even though I have a note there and always
                                    mark it to send back. K I'll stop rambling.
                                    \_ They shouldn't be getting tips
                                       (customarily) because their wages
                                       are not based on the presumption that
                                       they get tips.  You can't use logic
                                       to figure it out; you can only learn
                                       the etiquette rules.  -tom
                    you probably never see the person again, like when you
                    are travelling or in the city and getting service from
                    various people for whom the anticipated tip is a good
                    incentive. But for my regular haircut it feels stupid.
                    Still do it of course.
        \_ Whores!
        \_ do you tip the cable guy when they install your broadband cable
           service?
           \_ I did for my satellite installer because the guy went way
              out of his way, giving me his personal cell # and coming
              back later that day to make up for the head office fucking
              up horribly. That wasn't about customary etiquette, that
              was just me saying "Thanks for not making me wait another
              week for them to reschedule you." -bz
        \_ I don't tip at places where I have to go to a counter to get my
           food or where I have to bus my own table.
           \_ what if they serve you drinks and clean your table after you
              leave?
              \_ If they serve drinks, I tip as I'm served (usually $1 per
                 drink).
        \_ I used to tip at Souplantation and then I realized this was
           becoming weird.  Then the price increased by a couple bucks.
           After googling a bit, I am going to go back to tipping $1-2, but
           the Asian folks I'm usually with never tip.
           the Asian grad students I'm usually with never tip.
           \_ "give what you can, without hurtin' yo'self" - old Telegraph
                beggar by Wells Fargo teller on Bancroft
                \_ Oh my God! It's been 10 years since I saw that guy.
                   Last time I was in Berkeley I walked by that teller
                   and thought of him, but he wasn't there. My friends and
                   I still mention this guy from time to time. Hilarious
                   to find him show up in MOTD! Thanks MOTD! BTW, I think
                   it was: "Whatever you can spare without hurtin' yo'self."
                   \_ I don't remember him. I remember "Pat" who smelled
                      like piss and didn't say anything (and patted his head
                      all day), that Starr fellow, the bucket-drumming guy,
                      the little groups of street punks with, for example,
                      mini suitcase locks in their nose, and the 3-card-monte
                      guy who was an asshole and could get hostile. I think
                      there was another black semi-hostile beggar/demander.
                      \_ Do you remember RAR?
                         \_ I believe that's "RAAAAARRRRR!!!!!!!!!!".
2006/3/15-17 [Finance/Shopping] UID:42252 Activity:nil
3/15    Is it just me or it seems like Costco American Express is getting
        stingier and stingier wrt the % of rebate back? It's eearily similar
        to the old days when Discover+Costco had good deals and then Discover
        got cheaper and cheaper till Costco dumped them.
        \_ It's still 3% for restaurants and 2% for travel, right?
2006/3/15-16 [Finance/Shopping, Health/Women] UID:42247 Activity:moderate
3/15    Suggestions for cheap storage space rental in the
        east bay?  My requirements are... it exist.
        It can be on the 2nd floor, 3rd floor, i don't care.
        I don't need ground floor.  I need to disappear for
        about a year.
        \_There is a super secure place on 3rd St. in Oakland near Jack London
          Square called Safe Keep or something.  Not too cheap but much better
          than anything else I've seen. -scottyg
        \_ I'll tell you where NOT to go.  That place on Shattuck just south of
           Dwight.  Bad bad bad.  I'm amazed my stuff didn't get stolen, the
           place is falling apart and has shitty security, the people who
           work there are thugs, and they're a ripoff.  I shopped around a
           little before I found that place, and I tend to think that you want
           to be nowhere near the University if you don't want to get ripped
           off.  If you're leaving the area anyway, why not put your stuff in
           a more rural/suburban location on the other side of the hills?
        \_ find a deserted field, dig a hole, and bury it.
        \_ Disappear?  Storage space?  Damn it, you're giving me Primer
           flashbacks.
           \_ That's next week. Or was it last week?
        \_ How big and how cheap?  Storing stuff for a year can be pretty
           pricy.  Like, up to $1000.
        \_ Disappear?  Buy a bus ticket.  Don't contact anyone you know or
           use the asme name.  Use cash for everything.  If you wrote a serious
           post you might have got a serious reply.
           \_ After I disappear I'm still going to troll tom anonymously.
              \_ Nice to know I have anonymous supporters. -dans
           \_ I'm asking for advice about finding inexpensive storage,
              not tips on how to disappear.  Goddamn ADD nerds.
              \_ You asked stupidly, you got stupid answers.  If you hadn't
                 posted nonsense half your replies wouldn't have been garbage.
                 Find a mirror, the rest of us are a-ok.
                 \_ No he asked one specific question.  You chose to answer
                    a totally different one.  If I asked "hey, my wife
                    is pregnant where is a good place to get cheap
                    baby supplies?" and you responded by telling me to
                    make sure she takes her prenatal vitamins and sees a
                    doctor it wouldn't be answering the question now would it?
                    \_ I see it is anal retentive moron day on the motd.  If
                       he said, "Hey, my wife is pregnant where is a good place
                       to get cheap baby supplies?  I need to disappear for a
                       year", it wouldn't be off topic to tell him how to hide.
                       But you knew that.  He was dumb, several people gave
                       dumb replies.  Tough.  Being as retentive as you are
                       why didn't you correct his grammar errors while you
                       were here?  And mine too?  And spell check everything
                       and erase anything over 80 columns?  Why stop where
                       you did?  There is so much more to retain!  go for it!
                       \_ Err, why is it anal retentive to expect that the
                          question asked is the one that will be answered?
                          If you feel like ranting senselessly on motd -- hey,
                          go for it: motd without senseless rants would be
                          boring...but it's kind of pathetic to play the victim
                          when you get dinged for being uselessly OT.
                       \_ perhaps disappearing for a year might not have to do
                          with hiding.  perhaps it means leaving the area
                          without taking any of his material possessions.
                          \_ DING DING DING DING DING!
                       \_ It's the ops politburo-given right to post poorly
                          worded questions.  It's ours to respond with snarky
                          mis-answers. -dans
        \_ Look out for things like mold.  I've known people who stuck stuff
           in storage for a year or so, forgot all about them till then and
           came back to find everything rotted.
           \_ Most of the lots of random bins at public auctions
              are from crap people have abandoned or 'forgot to pay their rent
              for' at storage facilities.
2006/2/1-3 [Finance/Shopping] UID:41636 Activity:nil
2/1     Where to buy relatively cheap DVDs?  I tend to like Marimax
        type of semi-independent films... where can I get those for
        cheap?  I live overseas most of the time, so, Netflix is out of
        question.  I don't mind buying things used/previous viewed.
        \_ Where to learn English?  (sorry, j/k)
2005/11/11-14 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Shopping] UID:40553 Activity:nil
11/11   Are mega apt complex->condo conversion units particularly bad
        to buy as homes or investments, even if you plan to own them
        for a while?  I'm asking because single family homes are
        out of my price range.
        \_ Not particularly bad, but not as good as SFRs. Find a SFR, even
           if it means a city you don't like as well.
           \_ What if the city with the cheapest affordable SFR is
              over an hour drive away? What if the city where the
              condo is has a lot of amenities, like walkable markets,
              close to the beach, etc?
              \_ Why do you think you can't afford the SFRs if those are
                 the amenities? Why do you think you *can* afford the condo?
2005/11/11-12 [Finance/Shopping] UID:40543 Activity:nil
11/11   http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9555157/site/newsweek
        Reality check on the housing bubble-- no bubble. The fundamentals
        are strong, immigrants still find million dollar homes to be cheap,
        and wealthy boomers are finally tapping their money to buy 2nd
        and 3rd homes. This is the age of the new economy! lalalalala
        \_ Well, now that a Newsweek columnist says it, it must be truuuuue!!!
2005/10/18-19 [Finance/Shopping] UID:40150 Activity:nil
10/17   Can anyone recommend a cheap granite fabrication outfit for the
        South Bay? Thanks. (and/or supplier)
        \_ granite is very hard, and machining it requires even harder tools.
           such tools get warn down in the process and are quite expensive.
        \_ Wouldn't you prefer to go to Rome when it's nicer weather?  -John
           \_ well, my usage of "cheap" here is of course relative. just
              throwing it out... this process is pretty annoying
2005/7/28-31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Shopping] UID:38862 Activity:high
7/28    How is the existing global domination of IKEA, who's founder
        surpasses Bill Gates as the richest man due to weakening
        US currency, differ from the American domination of Walmart?
        People boycott, protest, and say bad things about Walmart, but
        what about IKEA?
        \_ He's a lonely old miser who barely leaves the house (the IKEA guy.)
           That, and IKEA doesn't have the size 30 mumus next to the family
           tubs of cheap candy.  I kid you not, I saw this in the first and
           only Wal-Mart I ever went into.  It was as close to inferno as I
           ever hope to get.  -John
        \_ It is not Walmart's size that is the problem. It is Walmart's
           behavior. -- ulysses
           \_ How is Walmart's aggressive behaviour any different from
              other super-mega American corporations' behaviours?
              \_ Stay on topic.  IKEA != American corp.
              \_ Costco pays their employees a decent wage, Wal-Mart does not.
                 Costco gives health benefits, Wal-Mart does not, dumping the
                 cost onto the taxpayer. Costco allows unions to form, Wal-Mart
                 does not.... should I go on???
                 \_ You guys just don't get it.  This is like thinking a minimum
                    wage actually helps the poor. -- ilyas
                    \_ So, if there was no wage, and people could be paid
                       $.20/hour, that would be better?
                       \_ I think it would.  The economy is a complex machine,
                          but everybody wants to tinker with it, without an
                          understanding of what tinkering will actually do,
                          given the way the machine works.  So if your original
                          tinkering doesn't work, you tinker some more!  The
                          real art is to make a just society where people do
                          the natural self-interested things.  I could turn your
                          own question on you: 'if the minimum wage was 20
                          dollars an hour, would that be better?'  The real
                          question is, why are there poor people in our economy?
                          The poor aren't going to go away, regardless of what
                          you do.  -- ilyas
                          \_ Your troll is barely amusing.  The minimum wage
                             should be set to whatever gives people in a given
                             area a reasonable standard of living for a 40
                             hour work-week.  Most poor people living on
                             minimum wage are barely scraping by, and there
                             are a lot of them.  They are the ones using the
                             emergency room, food stamps, etc.  Why do you
                             prefer big government programs to just plain
                             companies compensating employees properly?
                             \_ I don't prefer big government programs either.
                                Legislating minimum wage increases unemployment,
                                and fucks over the poor.  Similarly for most
                                measures forcing companies to spend more money
                                on employees.  -- ilyas
                                \_ Do you think poor people should be allowed
                                   to be worked to death? Should the government
                                   let poor people starve?
                                   \_ As I mentioned in the conversation on this
                                      topic on irc, it's very difficult to
                                      starve in the United States.  Mconst said
                                      that in Togo they say the US is a country
                                      where even the poor people are fat.
                                        -- ilyas
                                      \_ After 100 years of big government
                                         intervention in the economy, it is
                                         hard. It was not hard at the
                                         turn of the century. You want to
                                         bring us back to those days.
                                         \_ Yes, of course, you want to claim
                                            the cause of American prosperity
                                            was 100 years of attempts at
                                            socialism, whereas in reality
                                            America prospered in spite of, not
                                            because of it.  I ve seen what
                                            actual socialism does, you haven't.
                                              -- ilyas
                                            \_ No, the cause of American
                                               prosperity is the combination
                                               of government, business,
                                               eductation and other efforts
                                               over the last 100 years. The
                                               ameliortion of the worst forms
                                               of poverty and abuses of
                                               capitalism were done because
                                               of the popular will, exercised
                                               through the political process.
                                               You are like the man that was
                                               bitten badly by a dog as a
                                               child and persists in believing
                                               that all dogs are evil.
                                               \_ No, I just saw the 'wall of
                                                  cheese.' -- ilyas
                             \_ But if the min wage is increased, then the
                                wage required to get a "reasonable standard
                                of living" (define pls) must increase. It
                                creates unemployment and harms the ability
                                to get a job of the very people who would
                                most have trouble getting a better job.
                                Instead of min wage you might as well do the
                                zero unemployment economy thing and create
                                taxpayer-subsidized "jobs". They do some of
                                that in Europe.
                 \_ Wal-Mart also gives health benefits.
                    \_ Less than most companies:
                       http://csua.org/u/cv2
                       \_ That's not what the claim above is.
        \_ Much of the Walmart hate stems not from the family founders
           being filthy rich (worth billions), but the fact they are so
           chincy in providing benefits to their employees.  When you
           have over $22,000,000,000 why would 1) you force your workers
           to pay relatively high health care premiums, 2) hire illegal
           aliens, and 3) discriminate against female workers in pay and
           promotions.  Those 3 thorny issues haven't plauged IKEA.
           In fact IKEA has been rated one of the 100 best places to work
           for in general and for working mothers.
           \_ And the worst part in all of this is that their huge size and
              power forces their competitors to do the same in order to stay
              in business, so now an entire sector of the economy is always
              low paying with shitty benefits.
           \_ Wal-Mart pays 50% of health insurance premiums. The industry
              standard is 75%. I read that it would reduce Wal-Mart's profits
              20% in order to jump to a more standard 75%. Can they afford to
              do it? Of course. However, most companies aren't in business to
              give all profits back to the employees. In fact, I really detest
              Wal-Mart, but I can't think of anything unique about your points
              #1, #2, or #3. Wal-Mart is evil for other reasons, including
              the aggressive way it does business with suppliers and
              competitors. I don't know enough about IKEA to say if it is
              similar, but since it is an UltraMega corporation buying a lot of
              cheap product from Asia it probably has skeletons in its closet, too.
              \_ costco is holding its own against walmart, and it treats its
                 employees well:
                 http://csua.org/u/cut
                 \_ I like Costco in that it doesn't provide plastic bags and
                    that items only come in big sizes, both of which cut down
                    wasted material which is good for the environment.  Of
                    course Costco does it for profit reasons, but I like its
                    side-effect.
                    \_ I find the big sizes wasteful. It's good if you have
                       a large family, though.
                       \_ purchase what you need and use up.  eg. I don't touch
                          their huge boxes of snacks i rarely eat.  But, water,
                          or fruit juice, I purchase plenty of.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/business/yourmoney/17costco.html?ex=1122696000&en=4cd5686772a804b6&ei=5070
                    \_ As a friend pointed out to me, Costco's return policy is
                       the best.  You can basically return anything anytime.
                       If you don't like wal-mart, don't shop there.  Tell people
                       not to shop there.  This is how a healthy economy works.
                       Avoid government regulation as much as possible.
                       \_ Yeah, my friends said they could buy a computer at
                          Costco, and return it 1yr later saying that they
                          didn't like it.  I think that's insane to allow that.
                          didn't like it.  I think it's insane to allow that.
                          \_ It's now 6 months on computer and computer eq.
           \_ Welcome to America, where the safety net blows so hard that you
              need to work to survive -- which is why America is so productive.
              Create a wealth gap (they earned it), it will keep 90% of America
              working like dogs to either make ends meet or keep up with the
              Jones's.
              I heard in Canada you can be productive and also get a lot of
              social services, and the wealth distribution is not as insane.
              Commies.
              \_ Yup, social services that includes cheap prescription drugs
                 that Americans pick up the tab for.  If they had to pay the
                 real cost of medicine, their system would completely collapse
                 instead of merely teeter on the edge as it does now.
              \_ Their economy is also mostly based on exporting raw
                 materials.
                 \_ Like beer?
              \_ Canadian cost of living is very high - higher than US.
                 \_ You sure about that?
                    \_ Factoring in taxation, yes.
                       \_ Are you factoring in health care costs?
                          \_ For quality health care or Canadian health care?
                             \_ Depends.  Do you want to survive an illness?
                  \_ http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving3.htm
                     http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_701.asp
                     Canadian cities are lower than American.
                     Canadian cities are cheaper than American.
                     \_ PWNT!
                        \_ except for american goods!
                     \_ 'Comparative cost of 200 items' is not cost of living.
                        Canadians have less money to begin with because of the
                        taxes.
                        \_ You mean sales taxes? Because income taxes shouldn't
                           really be part of the "cost of living"; they affect
                           ability to gain income but not costs, seems like.
                           \_ Income taxes are absolutely a part of the cost
                              of living.  How can you think it matters if the
                              money came out of my check before I saw it or I
                              had to pay extra for each item I purchase with
                              that same money?  You're trolling, right?  IHBT.
2005/7/12-13 [Consumer/CellPhone, Finance/Shopping] UID:38547 Activity:nil
7/11    It was only 2 years ago when I had a $29.99/month wireless plan with
        300 any time minute and unlimited incoming and night&wknd. My contract
        is up and I can't find a $29.99/month plan anymore. The cheapest I can
        find is $39.99 plus $7 tax, which jacks up the price to almost
        $50/month. Cell phones used to be cheap, what's going on???
        \_ Last December I signed up for a T-mobile plan for two phones, five
           lines, everything free for one year after rebates.
        \_ Because cell phone companies know that after you have been hooked
           into having a cell phone, you can no longer live without out.  At
           least your SO and friends will pressure you to always have one.
           That's why companies were willing to offer these money-losing plans.
        \_ Back then competition was hardcore and AT&T sold a lot of cheap
           contracts forcing others to follow. With buyouts, there isn't as
           much competition and those still in the biz have to make up the
           money lost making those before mentioned  acquisitions. The best
           way to game the system now is to abuse the "friends and family"
           plans that allow unlimited time within their company .
2005/2/15-17 [Health, Finance/Shopping] UID:36175 Activity:nil
2/15    To the people that pay for their own individual health insurance
        plans, how much do you pay per month and how is your coverage?
        I'm looking for as cheap a plan as possible, but one which
        will still pay for well visits (regular checkups, etc.) This
        plan that I have now doesn't pay shit for checkups, and I
        want to find a new one.
        \_ I pay $43/month for Blue Cross's $3500-deductible plan.  I pay all
           my health costs out of pocket, up to $3500/year; after that, they
           pay for everything.  It's not what you were asking for, but for me
           it ends up being cheaper to pay for my own checkups and stuff than
           to get a real plan that would cover them.
2004/12/16-17 [Finance/Shopping] UID:35332 Activity:nil
12/16   Cheaper than Fleshlight:
        http://postarchives.entensity.net/040704/doityourself.wmv
2004/6/6-7 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:30638 Activity:insanely high
6/5     70% tax unfair? My landlord inherited 21 tall rise buildings from
        his dad in Westwood. He does nothing except collecting $ and hiring
        other managers to take care of shit for him. There are plenty of
        apartments in Westwood but they're all overpriced because of the
        few elites who decide to artificially inflate the price. 70% tax
        unfair for the superwealthy people? My ass. The rich is getting
        richer and the poor is getting poorer, and that is a fact from
        having unrestrained capitalism.
        \_ Uhm, excuse me, sorry to interrupt your frothing, what what business
           is it of yours that he is the ceo and owner of his own little real
           estate empire?  What the hell have *you* done to deserve a lower
           rent or free access to this guy's or anyone else's wealth?  The rich
           are no richer than they ever were.  The poor are better off now in
           this country than they ever were in any country at any point in
           history.  If you don't want to make this guy even richer, then go
           invest in owning something, stop paying rent which was always a
           loser's game and take care of your own shit.  How many apartments
           have you or some other trashy renter destroyed because 'hey, it's
           only a rental, fuck the landlord anyway, eh'?  I'll bet you've left
           at least one apartment in much worse shape than you got it and then
           you bitched over every penny they took from your deposit to cover
           the damages.  Hey, I know, let's have super strict rent control. It
           has worked soooo well in SF and Berkeley to make housing affordable
           and available to the little people.  Not.
                \_ That's quite the rant.  Are you saying that markets are perfect
                   and that they never need adjustment?  That we should allow
                   the establishment of family fortunes that perpetuate a con-
                   centration of economic power into the hands of an ever-
                   wealthier elite?
                   \_ The Founders of this nation were in favor of *not*
                      allowing family fortunes to be broken up.  They believed
                      that passing family wealth to a single child was better
                      than splitting it among them and destroying through
                      division.  Modern families have been ignoring their
                      advice and splitting their wealth, thus in a few short
                      generations destroying it so I'm not at all concerned
                      about your Communism 120B Professor's propaganda about
                      "the establishment of family fortunes taht perpetuate a
                      concentration of economic power in the hands of an ever-
                      wealthier elite" because reality shows this to be
                      opposite to what you believe.  Nice way to ignore just
                      about everything I said, btw.  If you're just here to
                      be the new commie-troll, then congrats on your one
                      success.  If you actually believe this crap, then you
                      can respond with more than phrases from the Little Red
                      book and one line, no content blowoffs that the people
                      responding to you are just ranting.  I was talking about
                      rent control and the land lord/renter relationship and
                      all I got back was mindless off-topic propaganda.  The
                      least you could do is provide on-topic mindless
                      propaganda if you want your troll to survive more than
                      the next hour this time or 30 seconds next time.
                      \_ IMHO(I'm not the guy above) the rental problem is
                         partly the fault of assholes who do not participate
                         in the market and so destroy it for everyone else.
                         By this I mean perspective tenants with too much money
                         and too little brains who don't bother to respond to
                         price at all and break the rationality of the market.
                         Just because someone can afford 2500/mo rent doesn't
                         mean an apartment is really *worth* that, and they
                         should keep shopping and spend the money they save on
                         something else.  I do not propose any governement
                         based solution to this, but I believe that smashing
                         the Real Estate cartel would go a long way towards
                         fixing the problem.  Again, I'm not proposing a
                         government solution, just proposing that individuals
                         refuse to use realtors' services when there is
                         *any* alternative, and that people use the Internet
                         as much as possible to replace them.  This is already
                         happening.  I guess the one government based solution
                         I might propose would be adding a course in the public
                         schools that teaches about home ownership and home
                         buying.  It's fine to learn that stuff from your
                         parents if they happen to be responsible and own a home
                         but for the rest of us, learning in the real world
                         is a pain.
           \_ advice #1, take your anti-depressant pill.
              advice #2, get your facts straight:
                http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agcomm/writing/newsrls/3-31-04a.htm
                http://money.cnn.com/2003/06/26/pf/taxes/wealth
                http://www3.sympatico.ca/truegrowth/richgetricher.html
              \_ *LAUGH*  Read your own links.  I stopped at the first after
                 it agreed with me about half way down page 1.  And here's the
                 key phrase from *your* link,
                 "Why such relatively fast income gains for the rich? In a
                 word: education, one of the biggest income determinants.
                 Workers with more education simply earn more."
                 Which tells us that the only thing holding people back is
                 their own unwillingness to get a better education.  Education
                 in this country is free or nearly so for the poor.  There's
                   \_ Only if you're smart.  Dumbasses like Bush have family
                      money, so they can go to increasingly expensive schools.
                      However, bright, but not genius, poor kids are getting
                      priced out.  And there are a lot of other disadvantages
                      to being born poor, such as crappy public schools which
                      neither prepare you for nor steer you toward good 4-year
                      degree programs.
                 no excuse to not have at least a 4 year degree, yet if you
                 keep digging deeper, you'll find (no big shock) that the bulk
                 of the poorest of the poor didn't graduate highschool.  Is
                 that the fault of the rich?  I'm sure you'll make some
                 argument to that effect.
        \_ So... you just want his money, because he has more than you?
           Got it.
           \_ Actually, what this guy is saying, is that since this rich
              guy already has all these assets, he has an advantage in
              sqeezing more money out of the rest of us.  It's like M$,
              market dominance leads to the ability to force people to pay
              what you want them to pay.  Taxation seems like a reasonable
              way to me to keep wealth from turning into hereditary
              aristocracies dominating all wealth in the US.
              \_ bingo. there's clearly a point at which wealth goes beyond
                 wealth. Billionaire empires would grow faster than the
                 general economy and more and more power gets concentrated
                 into the hands of a few. There's no injustice in putting
                 huge taxes on inheritances and incomes that are beyond the
                 pale. These are huge sums at just the tiniest top fraction
                 of people.
                 \_ So, I ask again, at what point do you put that 100% tax
                    rate?  How much is too much?  How much are we 'allowed' to
                    own in your little communist utopia?
                    \_ What 100%? I merely defend the principle of progressive
                       income tax, inheritance taxes, etc. Call it whatever
                       you want, I don't give a shit.
                       \_ We already have all that.  Now what?  It obviously
                          isn't having the desired effect for you.  When the
                          tax rates were even higher the rich were still, you
                          know, rich.  The only way to make the highly driven
                          and educated *not* be rich is a 100% tax.  All that
                          will do is drive them to another country with a
                          realistic tax rate that allows them to be rewarded
                          for being smarter than the rest of us.
                    \_ So it's either black or white with you?  Either we're
                       free market capitalists or we're pinko commies? Way to
                       use your noodle, dude.
                       \_ I answer this above.  When the tax rates were higher
                          than now the rich were still rich.  If you want them
                          to not be rich the only way is to have a 100% rate.
                          So, yes, I'm not only 'using my noodle' but I have
                          correctly applied it to the communist point and
                          spent the 2 seconds thought required to figure out
                          the necessary tax rate to achieve the desired effect.
           \_ well, no, but I really think I could have better use of money
              than him. For example I could have bought 3 hybrid cars instead
              of his stupid Hummer.
              \_ Not true; the tax credit for rich Hummer owners is far more
                 lucrative than anything you'll get in your battery rocket.
                 \_ I really don't understand how this tax shelter still survives.
              \_ I really think I could have better use of money than you.
                 Gimme all your money!
                 \_ I'll be glad to!  Just forward your bank account information
                    to my business partner in Nigeria and I'll hook you up.
         \_ They are priced fairly. If they were not, then they would go
            unrented.
                \_ ah, and if by raising the Bay Bridge toll to $10 and you
                   still get just as many bridge payers, then it is still
                   priced fairly? Some things are called inelastic supply and
                   and demand, my little cricket.
                   \_ Yes because there are other options to cross the bridge.
                      There is bart, car pooling, going around, or getting a
                      job that doesn't require bridge crossing.  If the bridge
                      toll went to $10 and the same number of people continued
                      to cross it then yes it is still priced fairly.  If
                      bridge use declines, as expected, but only slightly while
                      BART use goes up then yes it is still priced fairly.
                   \_ Housing isn't one of them. Move from Westwood and
                      rents will be cheaper. My gf lived in Westwood
                      because she liked it better than Mar Vista or Palms.
                      She paid more for the privilege. She could've lived
                      somewhere else cheaper.
                      \_ There is inelastic supply and elastic supply.
                         Over the long term, traffic patterns will definately change.
                         I already cringe the few times I have to cross the GGB.
                         I'd never go across it if they raised it to $10.  -rollee
                         \_ You would cross it at $50 if there was something
                            worth more than $50 to you at the other end.
           \_ Also if one or a few landlords own most of the land in an
              area, monopoly or oligopoly effects prevent fair prices.
              \_ This is not true in Westwood. If you think it is
                 overpriced then move to Santa Monica, Bel Air, Brentwood,
                 WeHo, Inglewood, or wherever you think rents are fair.
                 \_ Santa Monica is very very very expensive.
                    Bel Air is mostly houses owned by the rich, and they
                    hate students. Brentwood rarely rents out to students.
                    Marina Del Ray rent is like NYC rent. Actually, Westwood
                    is pretty cheap compared to these places I mentioned. Now,
                    Inglewood, that's a much more affordable place.
                    \_ Brentwood's not expensive if you know where to look.
                       Same with Santa Monica.  -- ilyas
                       \_ Isn't Santa Monica still under rent control? --rollee
                          \_ Don't know.  Santa Monica is like "Berkeley South"
                             in most respects. -- ilyas
                Do you have a car? Have you driven to Santa Monica, say, -/
                near the beach? Have you shopped around? Rent there is
                $100-$200 more than Westwood for studios and 1 bdrms.
                If SM were indeed cheaper, there would be more students
                living there, but the fact of the matter is that SM
                residents are mostly young fresh grad, 20-30 something. A
                better parallel is that SM is more like Emeryville.
                \_ So what you're saying is the Westwood rents are still quite
                   fair since they're cheaper than anything else around.
                   Thanks for clarifying.
        \_ As an aside, one good argument I've heard for high taxes is that
           money corrupts the democratic process.  So keeping people from
           amassing large amounts of wealth is important to provide each
           person an equal voice.  You may argue that the solution to the
           problem of money in government could be solved by anti-corruption
           laws, but history seems to show otherwise.  For example, look at
           all the corporations contributing hundreds of thousands of
           dollars to throw parties for politicians at the convention in
           Boston.  I think Kennedey has a party with a price tag > $100K
           paid for by companies with bills pending before his committee.
           \_ There will always be enough money around to corrupt politics.
              You can't fight human nature with tax laws.  Having a super high
              tax for the purpose of avoid political corruption by sucking the
              life out of people seems silly to me.  It's as if you're saying
              most rich people do nothing with their wealth but buy politicians
              which oh nevermind, it's just silly.
           \_ I respectfully disagree. The few elites know how to allocate
              wealth better than the poor. I'd rather have the rich people
              control money so that they can contribute to the Ghetty Museum,
              Metropolitan Opera, Gates Hall, Rockefeller Funding, Carneghie
              Scholarships, and things. If you had allocated the same amount
              of money to the poor, they'd squander it on alcohol, plasma TV
              and football fields.
              \_ yeah, but who'd build the plasma TV's, the football fields,
                 and the distillerys?
                 \_ You're all a bunch of fucking communists. Go find a time
                    machine and move to the Soviet Union.
        \_ Haven't you guys followed the stock market and financial news?
           Haven't you seen news about Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, LTCM bailout,
           Stern's market timing, etc.?  You don't think those are just
           the tip of the iceberg?  Wake up!  They are raping your arse,
           and you are saying "thank you!  it's lovely!  do it again!"
           And the idiots above are saying, "Hey! don't worry, some day
           you can get rich too and join us in screwing little people."
           \_ It's the great American hesitation:  wait, if I make it hard for
              rich people to screw the little guy, then how will I screw the
              little guy when I win the lottery?  Keep them hoping, and
              they'll do their best to stay out of trouble and maintain the
              status quo.
2004/4/28 [Finance/Shopping] UID:13433 Activity:moderate
4/28    Has anyone purchased diamonds online? I just went through amazon's
        configurator and a platinum setting was $1500 cheaper than a 14k or
        18k gold setting. Seems really odd. Also about $2k cheaper than
        bluenile.
        \_ The setting itself shouldn't cost more than about $2K at most,
           and that is with (little) diamonds on it. How can it be $1500
           cheaper with the same center stone? Did one setting have
           better/larger diamonds than the other? With no other stones the
           setting will be < $1000, even in platinum.
2004/3/19-21 [Finance/Shopping] UID:12762 Activity:nil
3/19    What is a cheap and secure way to check my credit report?
        \_ I think you are entitled to a free credit check every so often.
           \_ you are entitled to a free check after you are denied
              credit. also, sometimes some company will give away free
              credit checks. usually the "deals" type sites will let
              you know when that happens.
           \_ once a year, I think...?
           \_ where and how to get it?  I often get marketing calls and
              mails that offer to check my credit for $ >> 0.
        \_ Well there is always 'freecreditreport.com' but they will also try
           to sell you a service based on monitoring your credit erport.
2004/2/18-24 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:12295 Activity:nil
2/18    Immediate position open for Sr. Systems Engineer (sysadmin)
        at http://Walmart.com. If you meet the criteria, please e-mail me.
        We've been getting weak resumes from our less-than-technical
        recruiter. /csua/pub/jobs/walmart.com           -- Marco
         \_ Walmart?  I'd rather be a janitor at MSFT.
            \_ MSFT is far more evil than Walmart.
        \_ awww...all that sysadmin talk's gone???
           \_ maybe people should start a new thread when they think of some
              cool entertaining flame war related to a job post.  That will
              be less likely to be censored and won't provide a disincentive
              for alums to post jobs.
           \_ jealousy.
           \_ all that salary talk probably made it harder to find a
              schmuc^H^H^H^H^H^Hqualified candidate.
        \_ Do you know the general pay range for this?  60-80, 80-100, 100+?
           \_ Our rates are very competitive. Conservatively, I expect a
              qualified candidate would easily clear $80K. -- Marco
              \_ How about employee discounts at Wal-Mart stores?
                 \_ More importantly, how about stock options?
              \_ Is this really considered competitive for a senior person?
                 It looks average, or even a bit below, to me.
                 \_ It's quite low.  Senior Sysadmins should clear 100k at any
                    company.  Mid level people make into the 90s.  80k is
                    certainly not competitive.  A few weeks ago I turned down
                    110k and another company I'm currently talking with will
                    be offering me 110k plus other benefits that will make it
                    worth it to give up my current 120k.  At 80k I wouldn't
                    even consider applying or telling my friends about it if
                    they were senior level.  Then again, so few sysadmins
                    survive more than 3-5 years that anyone who hits the 5 year
                    mark is considered senior even though they're only just
                    becoming useful at that point.  It's a strange world we
                    live in.  I've always wondered what happened to the ones
                    who didn't survive.  I suppose they become developers?
                        --15+ years SA
                    \_ These numbers are too high for anywhere outside of
                       Silicon Valley. Also, 15+ yrs. is a huge amount of
                       experience and would increase your salary over most.
                       http://sageweb.sage.org/jobs/salary_survey
                        \_ If you need five years to become a good sysadmin
                           then you must be pretty dumb. Sysadmin is a support
                           function, if you design your netopology correctly
                           your day-to-day is basically just monitoring and
                           replacing defects. Once a month or so you'll need
                           to add in more storage or add in a couple more
                           machines. Again, if you designed your netop correctly
                           this is a piece of cake. Backups are relatively
                           easy nowadays with the right RAID. I mean seriously,
                           I sysadmin EDA software, which is a bitch, and it
                           didn't take me five years to "become useful."
                           \_ Sorry, you are just wrong. There are some things
                              you can only learn by working on a wide variety
                              of systems. Also, all the senior level jobs
                              include at least some management.
                              require at least some management.
                              -SA with 10 yrs exp
                           \_ I sense a dick-waving contest coming on...
                              \_ "They've got bigger dicks?  BOMB THEM!" --GC
                    \_ Someone has to fix the cash registers.
                 \_ He said "conservatively" and "easily"
        \_ Marco, thank you for posting this.  No one should ever be
           attacked for posting a job on the motd.  I never understood
           the suicidal "I'm too good for your stinking job!" attitude
           so many motd idiots have towards alums posting jobs.  This is
           part of what is called "networking", you clods.  It's *the* best
           way to find a new or better job.
        \_ I'm talking about a very well paying job doing real
           systems work at one of the world's largest ecommerce
           operations. If all of the stuff below disturbs you, by
           all means, do not send me your resume. If you want a
           good job; please let me know. -- Marco
           \_ Some people have ethical problems with Walmart.
              Some are just fucking with you, and some might want
              the job.
        \_ That's because sysadmins charge more than $6.80/hr.
        \_ in the grand scheme of things when you consider which
           companies stand to totally destroy the lower middle class
           and lower class income brackets, Walmart is completely satanic
           and threatens to lower the quality of life of millions
           Americans directly and indirectly.  You can say that that's
           just the effect of the free market, and I would happen
           to agree with you, but it does not make it suck less.
           This brings up the question of if I were completely down
           on my luck and I was offered a job with something that
           I consider Evil(tm), such as Walmart/Microsoft/Halliburton/
           Archer Daniels Richland or whatever that ethanol leech
           behomoth corporation is named, if I would take it.  I'm not
           sure.
           \_ If you are talking about Walmart squeezing out smaller
              companies and offering the newly unemployed low-wage,
              non-unionized jobs with few/no health benefits -- you have
              a point, but please be more specific next time.
        \_ Not that we don't appreciate the job posting, but which is more evil
           Walmart or Microsoft?
           \_ Is that a joke? I'd say that Microsoft is Evil, they way I might
              say an American politician is evil, even though even the worst
              American politician is better than Kim Jung Il, and even the
              worst software company is better than Walmart.
              \_ They're evil for different reasons.  Plus as a sysadmin you'd
                 be more directly helping MS be evil.
           \_ There are people who will argue whether the flames are blue or
              green, when the point is that their arse is on fire.
           \_ Walmart isn't Evil. They can't be evil. They sell Linux
              and Linux isn't Evil is it?
              \_ They sell Windows too.
        \_ Walmart significantly increased the standard of living of the
           (under)employed.  According to
                http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
           the "poor" enjoys a lot of amenities in life.  In fact they
           would be considered middle class or even upper class in coutries
           that you are so worried about taking our jobs away.  What makes
           this possible is the low prices introduced by stores like Walmart.
           I don't have any love for walmart, but during the time I was
           employed, I got everything from walmart and it kept my expense
           down and finance afloat.  Most of the people who trashes walmart
           are those too rich to know the need of the low income Americans.
           \_ that is interesting and i value your opinion, but could
              you find more evidence of this not coming from an incredibly
              right wing think tank like the Heritage Foundation?  I happen
              to be from one of those little towns that Wal-Mart has
              indirectly completely devestated.  You can probably
              say "that's because of cheap labor available from China,
              quit whining." and once again I agree but it still sucks.
              I think there is a direct temporary short term benefit,
              like as you said when you're poor it's pretty awesome and
              convenient to be able to go to walmart and clothe yourself
              almost completely for under $30, but in the long term
              the presence of a walmart directly depresses or destroys
              the possibility of any local retail jobs that have any
              chance of offering a liveable wage.  Maybe everyone in
              America needs to retrain immediately for jobs in the
              New Economy.  I have not read of any evidence that
              the current or even past presidential administrations
              actively care or are offering any leadership in this area.
                \_ Bush's job training program is "be a Halliburton
                   contractor in the front lines in Iraq so when you
                   get shot and killed we can NOT REPORT it because
                   you were a civilian non existent contractor but
                   since you don't go in the 'troops killed' column,
                   we don't have to tell anyone and the american
                   public doesn't and won't care.
                   [reformatted - formatd]
                   \_ Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, etc weren't exactly great job
                      creation plans.  People die in war zones, shit happens.
                      They get hazard pay.
              Also to endlessly argue that the very poor in this country
              are much better off than say arsenic poisoned homeless
              dudes in Bangladesh or entire generations of people who
              live in garbage dumps in Manila and never see solid land
              is a circular argument, it's not going to win me over.
              \_ Whatever you think of its source and author, you should
                 consider its facts and arguments in their own rights.
                 The data that article cites comes from US govt reports.
                 See the article and its references.  And let me just quote
                 "The average poor American has more living space than the
                  average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens,
                  and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are
                  to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those
                  classified as poor.)"
                  \_ Living space != standard of living.  If it did, we'd be
                     sending food and blankets to the Japanese.
                     \_ It's part of the whole picture.  And the average
                        japanese are miserable in that regard.
                \_ does living space automatically equate to a higher
                   standard of living?  Mongolian steppe herders
                   probably have spaces the size of Delaware all to
                   themselves.
                   \_ see above, and your comparison is not valid.  You know
                      how much tent space per person they have?
                \_ I don't think living density in this country is going to
                   approach japanese or european or southeast asian or
                   chinese levels any time soon unless we suddenly run
                   out of oil, we have pretty hard to overcome urban
                   sprawl problems, that ironically walmart has
                   exploited very successfully.
                   \_ Japan: 127,214,499 ppl in 374,744 sq km.
                      USA:   290,342,554 ppl in 9,158,960 sq km
                      Or roughly half as many people in 1/24th the space.
                      The US will never achieve this level of pop density.
                        \_ does the above include (or exclude?) areas
                           of the US you're not going to live in, like
                           national parks or volcanoes or the sides
                           of mountains or Houston?
                           \_ Of course, as well as huge chunks of Hokkaido
                              and numerous inhospitable rocks in dispute with
                              Russia.
                              \_ None may enter the sacred forests of Hokkaido,
                                 reknowned for their countless soap factories.
        \_ So why support a company that makes billions by rapidly
           furthering us towards a great equalization of global poor people
           by lowering the standard of living of poor people in the US to
           India's poor?  Is that how globalization is supposed to work?
           Great!  Actually no one is really saying how much they
           love Walmart, and I bet they just pave over all the poor
           people at Marco's work and he has little concept of it and
           is probably a nice guy.  I know a couple of people who work
           at Chevron-Texaco and they had absolutely NO IDEA why people
           would keep 'blocking the main road to campus' or protesting
           or giving them mean looks when they went to work in San Ramon.
           I mean, come on, they have college degrees from UCB but
           they choose to be really stupid.  I answer their evite
           party invites with NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
           \_ Well, Walmart sells cheap stuff.
           \_ Now you see many of the so called "liberals" are haters.
              \_ what is this "so called" stuff?  I AM a liberal
                 and damn fucking proud of it, ok not proud enough
                 to sign my name today, check back later.  I notice
                 none of today's posters are sufficiently walmart
                 loving or frothing at the mouth, what happened to
                 free market guy?  or free republic guy?  on vacation?
                 \_ And what about Chicom troll?  You'd think cct would have
                    a (painfully incoherent) opinion about all of this.
                    \_  Has it occurred to you that Marco's giving a
                        "conservative estimate," such that he sets an
                        appropriate expectation, and such that he isn't
                        brokering a salary negotiation?  I'm pretty sure
                        http://Walmart.com will pay market for you superstars out
                        there.  --chris
                    \_ I said "average" or "below".
2004/2/10 [Finance/Shopping, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:12185 Activity:kinda low
2/9     I'm planning to go to New Zealand at the very end of December. Can
        you recommend a local (Bay Area) travel agency?
        \_ Why bother with a travel agency?  I've never understood this.
           \_ They can often get you better fares since they have
               allocations of cheap tickets long after you cannot buy them
               retail.
                \_ Good luck getting cheap tickets to new zealand for the
                   end of December.
        \_ I got good prices from Air New Zealand's web site for my Nov.
           trip.  Dec is more, but you should at least try there and make
           sure you can't get the ticks there cheaper than through an agent.
           But they do kinda spam the address I gave them.  -crebbs
           \_ ANZ has a $999 roundtrip special running until Nov. to celebrate
              adding SFO to their route, but no specials after that.  I'll
              keep an eye on them, though, thank you. --OP
        \_ Don't forget to bring your ozone layer.
           \_ At least I don't have to bring my own Hobbit clothing:
              link:csua.org/u/5xe (jpg)
2004/1/6 [Recreation/Food, Finance/Shopping] UID:11688 Activity:very high
1/6     How much can i expect to pay for a cheap lunch in london?
            \- Ask for Cheep Bubble and Squeak --psb
        \_ Cheap:  3-4 pounds.  Decent (primarily Indian or Kebab):  5-10
           pounds.  Or you can grab a sandwich for about 1-3.  There's
           some pretty mangy food there, though.  -John
           \_ i don't know why this was overwritten, but thank you thank you
              thank you!  my faith in the motd is restored!
        \_ What?  WTF?  Walk into a cheap looking place and read the menu.
           \_ dumbass, I'm not in london right now.  That's why I'm asking.
              I need to estimate my travel expenses for a trip in the *future*
              not the present.
              \_ Useless.  You can't estimate to the penny what it will cost
                 you.  It will *always* be higher than you expect.  It's a
                 first world nation.  Prices will be similar.
                 \_ head...hurting...idiocy...aghck!!!
                    \_ Sorry if it was so hard to figure out that a McNugget
                       here will cost about the same as a McNugget there.
                       \_ I think McNuggets are a little more expensive there
                          because of how the dollar has been sliding.
        \_ If you know where to go, about 3 quid.
           \_ thanks, but since I have no idea where to go, can I assume 5-10
              per meal?  I'm looking for a ballpark estimate assuming both
              frugality and ignorance.
              \_ Go to http://timeout.com Yes, you'll have to register for
                 a freebie trial, but trust me, this is _the_ mag to have
                 access to.
        \_ so why are you making a trip to london when you are tight on money?
           \_ jesus fucking christ you people are amazing.  I'm not tight on
              money, and I'm not paying for it anyway.  I just have to sketch
              out a rough budget for the trip, and like to save money on
              general principle.
                \_ London on the whole is terriffically expensive.  For
                   good food you generally can't go wrong with Indian or
                   Bangladeshi--you'll want to hit Brick Lane in any case.
                   There is _no_ decent food in the City/financial area. -John
2004/1/5 [Finance/Shopping] UID:11660 Activity:nil
1/4     I'm moving.  I need a lot of bubble wrap.  I live in the South Bay.
        Can anyone recommend an economical local source for buying packing
        materials in quantity?
        \_ I just use old newspaper.
        \_ UHaul...it's kinda expensive to buy a lot, but at least you'll
           now know a guaranteed place to get some.
        \_ ebay?  old newspaper as the person above suggested?
           Old recycled papers?  UPS store?  Office Depot?  Office Max?
        \_ uline or u-line.  I remember it was definitely cheaper than uhaul.
2003/11/1-2 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Shopping, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10896 Activity:kinda low
10/31   Oh great.  A Vietnamese man just bought my building and has now
        cancelled the property management firm, the cleaning contract,
        and the pest control contract.  He claims he can do it all
        himself.  There are 19 units and over 30 people in the building.
        This is stupid - 5 years ago they finally beat back the roach
        invasion and now this chump is going to let them back in?
        Why is he so cheap?!
        \_ why do you still live in the Bay Area?!
             \_ Where do you live? And who do you work for?
        \_ Vietnamese people are always cheap. They are your worst nightmare
           as your employee (stupid) and your landlord (cheap). They're
           also your worst roomates (dirty). I'm speaking from personal
           experience. Do yourself a favor and move out ASAP.
           \_ I've got 7 months left on my lease.  ARGH!
              \_ You can break lease and move now or wait and pay double in
                 7 months after the economy improves.  Or you could kill him.
           \_ um, how are we vietnamese dirty?
              \_ heh, you'll accept stupid and cheap but dirty isn't ok?
                \_ ha that's pretty funny. Anyways, how come Vietcongese
                   bashing is ok but black/white/jews bashing gets trashed
                   by motd custodians? Is it because our custodians don't
                   like Viets as well?
                   \_ No, b/w/j bashing mostly causes the flamefest intended
                      by the trolls posting.  When that section of the motd
                      grows to 5 pages, it gets deleted.
                   \_ Edit it yourself. I like Vietnamese so well I married
                      one, I just don't see the need to censor idiots. It
                      is better to let the world see how stupid the bigots
                      really are.
           \_ sheesh, what a bigot!
        \_ Property management firms ... snicker.  Those are usually
           run by lazy, incompetent know-nothing do-nothing english major
           suit-wearing money-grabbers who think they are entitled to a
           high fee without providing any service.  Of course he should
           fire them and cut some fat.  Helps the economy, if nothing else.
           \_ I have yet to see an exception to the rule you state.
           \_ personal experience: management company did what was needed to
              be done at my apartment complex.  it was very industrial and
              there was no personal touch to anything but stuff got done. i
              moved from there to another complex run by the one-owner-guy and
              it was a big fucking filthy broken mess and a fire hazard to
              boot!  i'll take a prop. management firm anyday.
              \_ I think you mean "industrious."
                 \_ no, I mean industrial.  exactly like I said.  thanks.
        \_ At least your landlord wasn't the Lucky Reddy dude who bring
           indian peasant girls to the country to serve as sex slave
           and to help clean the apartment buildings.
           \_ If you're not an Indian peasant girl what do you care?
2003/8/19-22 [Finance/Shopping] UID:29386 Activity:low
8/18    hi are you going to burning man?  would you like to buy
        a bunch of talkabout radios from me for very very cheap?
        let me know. - danh
        \_ can't you buy new walkie talkies at radio shack now for about five
           bucks?  are you offering them cheaper than that?
           \_ I didn't see your mom for sale at radio shack this time
        \_ Ok Ill buy them.
2003/1/20-21 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:27157 Activity:high
1/20    I've seen on a PBS program (forgot which) which talks about the
        netherlands being a "post-consumerism" society.  Are there other
        examples of such countries?  New Zealand?  Thanks.
        \_ i don't think whole nations are "post-consumer" but there are
           sub-groups in some of them.
           http://uk.geocities.com/balihar_sanghera/Globaltersoc.html
        \_ What exactly does "post consumerism" mean?  They don't eat or have
           any needs any more?  Have they invented the star trek food maker
           thingy and didn't tell the rest of us?  What?
           \_ It means living to satisfy our needs, and not our wants.
              You don't NEED a SUV, DVD player, Sony playstation, or a new
              computer every 18 months.  So why do you buy it?  Deriving
              satisfaction in life based how much crap you can buy with money
              is meaningless and not sustainable.  In one word:  Simplicity.
              \_ So you mean to tell us that people in the netherlands are at
                 one with the land and don't own stuff?  Okey dokey.  Whatever.
                 As someone who owns almost no consumer junk myself, I think
                 you're a wack.  There's nothing wrong with all those things if
                 you can afford it.  Let's just shut down the whole fucking
                 economy and eat only after a creature or plant has died a
                 simple natural death.  While we're at it let's have 80%
                 unemployment when there's nothing for most to do and no
                 incentive for the other 20%.  This sounds just great!  Where's
                 Walden Pond when you need it?
                 \_ You need a cactus up your ass.
              \_ Sounds like a communist society.
                 \_ actually, sounds more like poor.  but that's not so
                    different from communism, i guess.
2002/9/13-14 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:25879 Activity:nil
9/13    http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1325469
        sobering thoughts.  prepare thyself accordingly.
        \_ They don't go nearly far enough into the alarming consequences
           of deflation.  Basically deflation kills most demand.  Everyone
           wants to hold onto his cash so he can get what he wants for less.
2002/7/5 [Industry/Jobs, Finance/Shopping] UID:25283 Activity:very high
7/4     Just graduated, and the money situation is ok. So I'm thinking of
        just taking a little time off and relaxing at the folks house
        for a little while or until the economy picks up (not that I have a
        choice). (related to below post) What are some good (possibly open-
        source) projects I can dedicate some time to?  And what are the best
        ways to get started on these kinds of things?
        \_  Art is good.  Pick a medium and take a class.  If you really
            like it you'll get better.  Pick a form which takes a lot
            of time and organizational skill to thin your competition.
            Or enslave yourself to my film crew for extra cool points.
            We always have openings, and it's not pr0n.  -brain
        \_ Mistake.  Any "holes" in your resume will raise questions when you
           finally do decide to join the economy.  And btw, it might be years
           before it picks up again.  Say hi to yermom for me. (sorry, I had
                   to take the cheap shot, it was so there).
           \_ is saying, "I spent the last year working on open source
              projects" that bad?
              \_ Depends on how you say it. You make it seem that you took
                 the time off for a "good" reason. If it's shareware, make
                 it something that has a public release. If it's 3-6 months
                 off, it's acceptable to say you took time off to celebrate
                 graduation.
        \_ I'm doing this (sort-of) right now;  working on a part-time
           contract, setting up our apartment.  The hardest thing is to
           get used to relaxing and not feeling guilty about not working
           full-time.  I suggest taking some certification exams, since it's
        \_ i did have to explain where i was for a year.  I said, "Peace corps."
           even "Missionary work in Sierra Leon" works.
           probably nice weather outside to go prepare with a book in the
           park.  Get a ton of exercise, tank up on sun (unless you're in SF),
           and buy an old laptop to go work away from home on stuff you feel
           like--otherwise you just end up sitting around at home and pr0n-
           hosing.  -John
        \_ i did have to explain where i was for a year.  I said,
           "Peace corps." even "Missionary work in Sierra Leon" works.
2002/6/14 [Finance/Shopping] UID:25101 Activity:nil
6/13    Mailing lotsa books to France (10 pounds?). Is USPS cheaper or UPS?
        \- bookrate is relly cheap! ... at least USA. You should pack the
           stuff pretty well however. For international stuff, I belive
           printer matter is also cheaper than letter type stuff. I once
           sent an associate in london a poster and it would have been a hell
           of a lot more expensive if i had put a letter in the "london tube"
        \_ why send them 10 lbs of books when you can send them 10 lbs of
           plastique?
           \_ there must be something with a better boom/weight ratio than
              plastique these days.
2002/3/27 [Finance/Shopping] UID:24242 Activity:nil
3/26    Wanna buy an island?
        http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/pricelist.html
        \_ there are much cheaper island buying options, depending on where
           you are.  i know a retired electrician who owns an island in
           alaska, and i'm pretty sure he's not that rich.
           \_ Well, the islands in Nova Scotia seem to be pretty cheap.  The
              cheapest one is $19,000 US.  That's about the price of a car.
                                           \_ Thanks for clarifying.
              \_ What would you do with a $19K island in Nova Scotia?
              \_ How many hours per day is it above sea level?
2002/2/25 [Finance/Shopping] UID:23967 Activity:high
2/25    Where's the best place to get bulk vitamins?  I need some calcium
        and iron supplements and don't want to spend a lot - soda gal
        \_ Adjust your diet.  It's easier and cheaper.
           \_ Women need extra calcium and iron supplements because of their
              monthly..."grumpiness."  Actually, most athletes should take
              supplements as well, or eat a whole lot of everything.
              Try Costco for the vitamins.
              \_ Grumpiness?  Only in this country.  It's cultural.  And it's
                 ok to call it a 'period'.
              \_ Agreed.  The supplement stuff in Costco seems pretty cheap
                 compared to other stores.
        \_ Trader Joe's has good prices if you're not looking for anything
           overly exotic.
           \_ definitely second tj for cheap vitamins.
        \_ Eat dirt and rocks.
           \_ And suck nails.
2002/2/2 [Finance/Shopping] UID:23752 Activity:low
2/1     Where can I get a used stereo receiver? Craigslist seems to be a poor
        choice on this one. Anyone willing to sell me theirs cheap?
        \_ email?
        \_ how cheap?
           \_ $25 ?
2002/1/18-21 [Finance/Shopping] UID:23599 Activity:moderate
1/18    Any recommendations for another product like
        http://www.spiderplant.com/hlt/index.html a cheap flexible
        room temperature monitor? They aren't taking more orders. thanks.
        \_ Me too, I need something similar to HLT. -- Marco
        \_ What do you want it for?  If it's for a machine room then your
           routers might already have a temp. value you can retrieve with
           SNMP.
2001/8/13 [Finance/Shopping] UID:22089 Activity:kinda low
8/13    What's the cheapest long distance carrier to use, if you know
        exactly who you are going to call long distance?
        \_ the one with the cheapest rates (and monthly) for that person. -duh
2001/7/2 [Finance/Shopping] UID:21699 Activity:very high
7/2     From http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/smartbuy/basics/6600.asp?package=moneymonday
        "Alfred and Trish moved from Queens, N.Y., to San Diego this
        year. Housing is slightly cheaper, but property crime is higher."
        Isn't Queens, NY a very bad neighborhood?  I can't imagine San Diego
        being worse than Queens.
        \_ Queens is very ethnic. There are, of course, parts that
           are bad, but for the most part, it's not.
        \_ tons of people live in queens.   that's like saying
           "the bay area is a very bad neighborhood"
           \_ I see.  I've never been to Queens.  Based on the impression I got
              from movies I thought it was just a small district in NY with
              many bad people.
        \_ nyc has 5 buroughs.  each burough has nearly a million
           people, and in the case of brooklyn, nearly 2 million people.
           so statements like "all queens is bad" is really broad,
           there are hundreds of different neighborhoods in nyc,
           some bad, some good.  neighborhoods you only know
           about from rap songs are probably bad.
        \_ Depends on where in San Diego they moved. If housing is slightly
           cheaper then it's not one of the best parts of San Diego. --dim
        \_ New York city has gotten significantly better in the last five or
           ten years, and this goes for both Manhattan and the other
           burroughs.
           \_ Thanks to the NYPD's shoot first, ask questions later policy
              \_ Isn' it plunge first, ask questions later?
              \_ No problem with that. Population control!
                 \_ anyway it's better than a situation where the police
                    tell someone to stop or they'll shoot, the person doesn't,
                    and the police don't shoot.
           \_ you can really hurt a guy with a pager if you put
              your mind to it
              \_ Actually, the improvements predate Guliani's arrival in
                 office, which is when the police started to get really bad.
                 \_ I'm sure it has to do with the good economy. LA didn't
                    have near as many gang problems for many years, too,
                    but now it's getting worse as the economy is slowing. --dim
2001/5/10 [Finance/Shopping] UID:21226 Activity:kinda low
5/9     Anyone have any opinions on video projectors? I need
        to buy one and cost is an issue. I've only ever used the
        fancy, schamncy ones that cost over $5k. In particular,
        are the cheaper Infocus models any good? -payam
        \_ used a cheaper-end Infocus machine to display the Boston Aquarium cam
           on the wall of our office for a while: worked fine, easy to set up,
           power cable pretty much interchangeable with that of any number of
           office machines-- doesn't handle resolutions above 800x600 too well
2001/2/14-15 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:20596 Activity:insanely high
2/14    Got no date?  Want something more than another valentines day
        staring at source code? Come see: "Hungry for Profit"
        Wednesday, February 14th @ 7pm 210 Wheeler
        come and learn how
        * U$ agricultural interests abroad destroy 3rd world nat'l economies
        * Agribusiness perpetuates environmental degredation
        * Imperialism keeps millions of people on the brink of starvation to
          benefit the First World
        \_ Going vegan can help solve the problem.
           http://www.vegan.org/about_vegan_environment.html (especially the
           last section)
           \_ Uh, how? Vegans eat vegitables that require farming which
              contributes to environmental collapse. You should switch
              to starvation and dieting like super models.
              \_ Raising cattle or poultry also requires farming and
                 environmental collapse.  For every calorie of meat
                 you produce requires you to put in 1000 calories to
                 feed and raise that animal.
                 \_ Glad I'm a vegitarian and not contributing to the
                \_ Commie alert
                    collapse of the "environment". Not that I give a
                    shit about it.
              \_ It doesn't solve the problem completely but it helps solve
                 the problem by slowing down collapse.
                 \_ All this collapse is bullshit. You sound like Al Bore
                    or Jimmy Carter. Americans should not be limited to small
                    dreams. BTW, I'm vegitarian by choice, and not because
                    I'm concerned with the "planet" and the "future".
                    \_ Typical sodan thinking. Well, you just keep that
                       to yourself. Most people do care about the "future".
                       By the way, if you're really concerned about your
                       health (and you probably aren't because you're
                       not concerned about other things as well) you
                       would add a little meat in your diet since meat
                       contains certain protiens you can't find in other
                       protien alternatives.
                          \_ My people have been vegitarian for thousands
                             of years and they have been living just fine.
                             The average lifespan in my family is ~ 90
                             yrs all disease free. I have the same diet
                             they do, I'm not going to change because some
                             idiot motd poster things that meat is good
                             for you. If you read modern medical science
                             you will find that any animal fat is bad for
                             your health. The lower on the food chain you
                             go for your nurishment, the better.
                             And all this "future" bs, we've got to save
                             the planet for the "future", we've got to
                             cut back on modern civilization so that the
                             "future generations" can enjoy the "planet"
                             is total crap. You basically want to restrict
                             technological progress because you can't
                             keep up and you want to condemn future
                             generations to live in an undeveloped
                             society.
                       \_ there are 9 amino acids humans can't produce.
                          all of them are found in the plant world.
                       \_ Maybe you'll learn to spell protein sometime soon.
        \_ PLUZ! A world economy reduces the chance of world wars, as people
           are too busy trying to exploit each other. I'd rather have that
           than the holocaust, combat casualties, biological weapons and etc.
        \_ Typical Left-Wing Mythology. Let's all become communists like
           in CCCP and Cuba and live in dirty little hovels shivering in
           the cold without the benefit of modern civilization. Idiot.
           \_ not to argue pro-communism, but imperialist policies do extract
              an unequal exchange of values from third-world countries, via
              their technological and political leverage, thus keeping them
              much poorer than they would otherwise be. a Buick regal should
              not equal 10,000,000 bananas but it often does.
              \_ This is incorrect.  Foreign investment NEVER hurts a country.
              \_ Commie alert - I dont think Marx could have said it
                 better himself.
             \_ why would anyone that poor want to buy a buick regal?
                \_ why would anyone want to buy a buick regal?
                   \_ Do you have one? It is not too expensive and
                      is a reasonably reliable car.
             \_ the real reason 3rd world countries are poor is because they
                breed too much. they're already poor, then have 10 kids who
                end up with 1/10 of what their parents had, except for the
                few who make it to the very top. you cannot build wealth across
                generations if you're having that many kids, it's quite simple.
                growth of gdp has to exceed population growth for net per capita
                gain. but instead we have whole nations in africa where unicef
                aid is the primary economic force and they no longer even know
                how to provide for themselves, yet still have 10 kids. it's like
                feeding raccoons in your backyard, soon there are twice as many
                and they completely depend on you.
                   \_ This is the problem that they have in India. The birth
                      rate of the poorest people is about 5-10 per family.
                      A good way to help these people has yet to be devised,
                      as they reject education (its free) or better living
                      conditions.
                      When the government clean up the slums and build good
                      housing for slum dwellers, they ended up selling the
                      free housing and returning to the slums. When the gov.
                      offered free education for the poorest children, few
                      showed up, prefering to engage in menial labor.
                      First world consumption has nothing to do with the
                      poverty these people face. Thier misery is thier own
                      doing.
                \_ I believe in Rush!
                \_ That's why we should support commie China's birth control
                   policies.
                      \_ No. I don't think that it should be forced. But
                         people ought to understand that a high birth rate
                         is unsustainable and voluntarily stop.
                         It is the part about making people understand that
                         is difficult.
                         \_ even if they understand, they won't voluntarily
                            stop. it's like traffic congestion. we all
                            understand that if most of us employed alternative
                            transportation the roads would be clearer, so what.
                            why should i do it if you don't.
                            \_ alternative transportation? you mean RIDE
                               BIKE?!? I live +30 miles from work. I can't
                               possibly RIDE BIKE! Yeah I could take a bus,
                               but I just have to change 5 times and it only
                               takes 5 hours. What about the train you say?
                               Well for $6.50 a day, its cheaper and faster
                               to drive.
                               If well planned alternative transport was
                               available I would take it. I have in the past.
                               I took BART from Fremont every day for the
                               four years I was at Cal.
                               \_ yes but that's my point; using other transport
                                  is a disadvantage to you so you won't do it
                                  unless you have to, or unless it's only
                                  slightly less convenient than cars. thus
                                  the analogy to people stopping having kids.
                                  which deprives them of their instinctive
                                  reproduction need and...oh forget it. besides
                                  no one forced you to live +30 mi from work.
                                  \_ I can't afford to pay $1800-$2400 in rent
                                     every month after the IRS gets its unfair
                                     share.
                                     The BART was farily less convenient than
                                     driving, but I still did it because it
                                     was reasonably priced and moderately well
                                     planned and managed. The trains and buses
                                     are no where near that well run. If they
                                     were I would take them.
                               \_ Driving costs ~$0.32 per mile on average when
                                  maintenance, depreciation, etc. are taken
                                  into account.  That's how much you can deduct
                                  on the tax form for driving your own car for
                                  business purpose.
                                  \_ I don't think the IRS will take too kindly
                                     to my deducting $0.32 for each mile driven.
                                     Anyway, I've tried public transport to work,
                                     it just doesn't work for me and I believe
                                     that it doesn't for most people, that's
                                     why buses and trains go empty.
                                     Planning is key to public transport and
                                     that is sorely lacking in CA.
                   \_ yeah, maybe we can come up with a darwinist birth policy.
                      we say a kid is worth like $200k. for each kid you want,
                      you have to pay the gov't that amount. problem solved.
                      \_ Uhhh.. pay the government!?  Why?  Why not just stop
                         (in this country) providing monetary incentives for
                         poor families to have more children?  Why not instead
                         provide no monies at all to support the kids, and
                         if they have them and can't care for them, offer them
                         to the families who can afford them that want kids.
        \_ hey, this is the motd, we already know all that stuff!
           \_ come anyway.  it's a decent film.
        \_ and these people are the same ones who voted for
           Clinton & Gore - gimme a break
        \_ yeah right, russia had their whole nation starve with communisism
           and their food lines.
           \_ Don't argue...  If it were up to me I would send the whole
              american communist lot to China or Russia for an educational
              two-week tour of the likely results of the hegemony of the
              proletariat. -- born in russia
              \_ Just because you extremist dumb fucks screwed things up,
                 doesn't mean others will.
                 \_ You don't understand.  Property redistribution is wrong.
                    The more you go with it, the worse off you will be.
                    Don't give me your misguided relativism.  Communism is
                    a bad idea.  Always was, always will be.  It's a good thing
                    many people can actually learn from Russia's tragic
                    mistakes, even if overfed dumb fucks like you can't.
                    \_ Sorry.  Liberals != Communists.  I know it may be
                       hard for little russian ex-commies to understand
                       that.  The main reason soviet union failed is
                       due to having a command economy rather than a
                       market economy.  Nobody is suggesting that
                       we turn the economy into a command economy.
                       \_ You don't want to be lecturing a 'little russian
                          ex-commie' on why CCCP failed.  The reason CCCP
                          failed is because 'property redistribution' ==
                          invitation to loot the wealthy (i.e. productive)
                          members of society.  No society succeeds with such
                          an economic plan.  A command economy was an after-
                          thought, a temporary way to keep a dead body in
                          motion for a few more years.
                          \_ Like I said, you don't have to
                             push things to extremes.  A little
                             "redistribution of wealth" like the
                             progressive tax and intelligent use of
                             welfare to help people with difficulties
                             get back up is actually good for the
                             economy.  Of course you do not want to
                             constantly redistributing wealth such that
                             there no longer is any incentive to work.
                             \_ taxation is a violation of my freedom.
                                The founding fathers knew this and it
                                was banned until early this century.
                                Progressive taxation which takes money
                                from someone who rightfully owns it
                                and gives it to someone who doesn't
                                is a crime. It should be outlawed.
                                Its my damn money and you've no right
                                to it. If I choose to help poor people
                                that is my right. If I don't that is
                                my right too. You should not take it
                                from me because you think that it is
                                right.
                    \_ Some people here in the west are just too dumb
                       to understand how bad the living conditions are
                       in a communist society. They think that the
                       everyone is equal because everyone is a poor
                       peon is a good thing.
        \_ Is it free?  I don't want to have to pay to get brainwashed, lied
           to, mislead, and only told one side of a very complex story.  Also,
           what are my odds of picking up a real hottie commie chick and
           getting some action after the flick?  If I show the proper signs of
           being brainwashed do my chances go up?  Are there any hottie commie
           chicks or are they all hairy armpit club wielding Berkeley leftists?
           \_ hottie commie chicks is an oxymoron. There was a saying in
              communist russian: What do you call a pretty girl in Russia?
              A tourist.
              \_ Nah.  I remember this very pretty russian gymnast who,
                 after coming to the US, became fat and ugly.
                 \_ maybe if your idea of pretty is "prepubescent anorexic."
2000/12/22-23 [Finance/Shopping] UID:20157 Activity:kinda low
12/21   I need to buy a new bed & mattress, but I'm a poor grad student.
        What's a place to buy a decent, cheap set in/near Berkeley?
        \_ futon?
        \_ Discount Depot on San Pablo near University.  They were the cheapest
           place for beds/mattresses/futons when I was an undergrad. --chris
           \_ Purchased twice(futons) from them over 8 year period in late 80s
              early 90s. Dunno about now, but they were good/fine then.Small
              delivery guy with compact toyota delivered the queen/full frame
              and futon himself up 3 floors for $10 fee.
2000/12/21-23 [Finance/Shopping] UID:20152 Activity:moderate
12/20   Has anyone ever worked at a McDonalds?  Do the eggs in the egg
        McMuffins come precooked/preshaped, or do they use real eggs?
        \_ They are real eggs, you crack them into these metal rings. -tom
           \_ Are you saying this from experience?
                \_ yes.  Though I usually worked closing.  -tom
                        \_ And I always thought they were extruded like
                           plastic.
                           \_ I thought they were spun and grown into
                              ingots (like silicon wafers) and then
                              pulled out and sliced up.
        \_ On a similar note, I've heard rumors that Jack In The Box tacos
           aren't actually made of beef... rather, some cheap soy substitute.
           I asked for a nutrition fact sheet type thing last time I was
           there but just got blank stares. I'd really like to know since I
           don't like beef but really like those tacos. Truth or urban
           legend?
           \_ I've also heard that KFC chickens are machine grown and
              headless and that people wake up in ice baths with their
              kidneys removed.  Ah..the freshman urban legend forwards.
           \_ KFC is made of soilant green!  Soilant green is made of
              HUMANS!!!
                   \_ Tom finally weighs in on something he knows about--
                      MacDonalds and flowers!
                        \_ Don't knock flowers.  That's important.
                           \_ absolutely!  without flowers I wouldn't have
                              a cheap, convenient, and disposable gift to
                              give the cheap easy women I date.
2000/11/23-28 [Computer/Networking, Finance/Shopping] UID:19904 Activity:moderate
11/23   Can somebody recommend a cheap wireless phone plan for $20 or less
        a month?  I need it for only emergency only.  And it must come with
        a phone.
        \_ Work gave me a cell.  They pay everything.  It sucks. -- 24x7 slave.
           \_ Ha ha. You accepted the cell phone from work? What
              did they have on you? Did you kill or rape a co-worker?
              Or are you too stupid to live?
              \_ 6 figures and they never call me.  I didn't "accept".  It's
                 part of the job.  I could go with no cell and get half or
                 nothing.  And like John I use it as my free personal phone.
                 \_ 6 figures and no cell. The are afraid to call me. You
                    need to be more important.
                    \_ That doesn't mean much if you don't have a phone.
                       \_ They are scared to ask me to carry a pager or
                          a cell phone. Very scared.
              \_ work gave me a cell.  people from work rarely ever
                 call me on it.  it's great!
                \_ Last time work gave me a cell phone I regularly racked
                   up > $400 phone bills on it.  "Fringe benefit."  -John
              \_ Ooh, y'all six-figure niggas by the name of jigga.
                                                        --hater
        \_ Consider prepaid minutes + cheap phone.  No monthly charge.
        \_ The cheapest PacBell plan is somewhere around this price... I think
           it might be $25/mo. and usually comes with a phone.
        \_ SprintPCS has a $20/month plan for 20 minutes.  I used to remember
           there being a $15/month plan for 30 minutes.  Oh well.
        \_ http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/htbin/rfc/rfc2549.html
        \_ http://www.csaa.com/memberservices/cell-phones.asp
2000/6/8-9 [Finance/Shopping] UID:18433 Activity:high
4/69    How does one get free access to UCB libraries without joining the alumni
        association? -jeffwong
        \_ There is no way, you cheap school-spirit-less person.
           \_ Don't you mean cheap-school spirit-less person?
        \_ the alumni association is cheaper than the alternative. there
           is no alternative that is both free and legal.
2000/4/24-26 [Finance/Shopping] UID:18099 Activity:moderate
4/24    Does anyone have a copy of Half-life they might be willing to
        sell me for cheap?  Or Planescape: Torment? - seidl
        \_ Warez.
           \_ Looking for not warez.  Ebay prices just seem a little too
              random right now. - seidl
        \_ If no one has used ones, seidle, someone needs to go to a
        \_ If no one has used ones, seidl, someone needs to go to a
           computer show and buy you a new one for cheap
           \_ Which computer shows have half-life for cheap? Living in
              colorado makes many shows a little far to go to. - seidl
2000/2/3-4 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:17416 Activity:high
2/2     According to McCain, he's for Social Security and "paying down
        the debt."  When we pay down the debt, who benefits the most?
        IN other words, who holds certificates to our nation's debt?
        \_ The CHILDREN.  Won't somebody *please* think of the CHILDREN!
        \- er, i think you are misunderstanding what this means. the
        alternative to paying down the debt isnt defaulting. paying down the
        debt really means you will slow down the rate of issuing new debt.
        you have to finance deficit spending either by borrowing [in which
        case the govt competes with private industry for savings, raising the
        cost of money, i.e. the itnerest rate] or the govt can print money, an
        option not open to a private individual/firm, but not totally free
        for the govt either, since paying back with inflated dollars is kind
        of a partial defualt. quite a bit of US treasure instruments are
        held by foreigners, btw. --psb
        \_ I think you are misunderstanding the question. The person asked
           who will benefit by the paying off of the National debt, not
           what effect it would have upon any (hypothetical) future deficit
           spending.
          \_ #1 holder of US Treasury products is Americans.  Japanese #2.
                        I think Chinese have recently started buying huge
                        amounts.
        \_  Why do you think that the Gov't's lenders want to be paid
            back instead of continuing to be paid interest?  And remember,
            this is money they already gave the Gov't.  Right now I think
            $200G goes to paying iterest on our debt.  How much does our
            military cost?  --PeterM
                        \_  My point (admittedly unclear) about the military
                            is that the interest on our debt could go a long
                            way to paying the military budget.  --PeterM
                \- if you look at debt/GDP for the us, the number isnt too bad.
                the problem here isnt high debt, but extrmemely low private
                savings rate. --psb
                \_ You want to dump the military?  Which foreign language
                   would you prefer to learn to talk to your new leaders?
                   \_ Japanese! :-)
                        \_ right. in japan, you'd be lucky to find people to
                        openly express themselves in public conversation like
                        this.
                        \_ thats why I like it. And no more stupid
                           "gay marriages" either.
                          \_ If you want to live in a cultural clam shell, go
                             there.  No reason to destroy this country when
                             Japan is only a plane flight away.  To each his
                             own.
                          \_ No tipping!  Schoolgirl panties in vending
                             machines!  It's a utopia!
                                \_ And blue dots on all the pr0n.
                                  \_ Blue Dots are Artistic, or something. --oj
                                        \_ Pubic hair is banned.  Rape is ok.
                   with nukes at our disposal? The age of true tactical warfare
                   on a large, sustained scale are long gone. Red Storm Rising
                   will never occur in an age of easy and cheap nuclear armament.
                   \_Screw the military, we have nukes, who's gonna invade us
                     with nukes at our disposal? The age of true tactical
                     warfare on a large, sustained scale are long gone. Red
                     Storm Rising will never occur in an age of easy and cheap
                     nuclear armament.
                        \_ You're neither funny, nor clever, nor a good troll.
                   \_ You're an idiot.  Or this is a weak troll.  Or both.
                      Either way, there's no point in providing a serious
                      reply.  No military = pick your new foreign leadership.
                   \_ We should take all the welfare cases, issue them with
                      little mind control helmets, and give them all backpack
                      nukes.  That would rewl.  Also, we should get rid of all
                      our tanks and buy a few hundred thousand Daihatsu Grand
                      Moves (the really narrow minibuses that always tip over)
                      and put Davy Crockett XM-28 recoilless atomic cannon on
                      the top of them and fill them with TNT and have these
                      massive swarms of little stupid-looking minibuses
                      with bigfoot tires chewing up the countryside lobbing
                      rapid-fire atomic munitions at the enemy before ramming
                      them in a blaze of glory.  We'll get rid of INS and
                      customs/border patrol too, and replace them with massive
                      300-deep belts of of B-54 SADM nuclear land mines.  We
                      will take care of our strategic interests by building
                      a titanic post-hole digger and dropping massive amounts
                      of nuke silos in the entire midwest, side-by-side.
                      Problems with Iraq?  Send 'em a few Minutemen IIs for
                      fun.  China acting up?  Santa's bringing a bag full
                      of Titans with 20MT warheads to Peking.  All US-flagged
                      vessels will be replaced with TridentIII subs (let the
                      cruise-line geezers swim) and all US air carriers will
                      be required to replace their planes with B-70s, for
                      extra impressive value.  Slim Pickens for president!
                      Nukular Fucking Weapons!  We'll be invincible!    -John
                   \_ You're an idiot.  Or this is a weak troll.  Or both.
                      Either way, there's no point in providing a serious
                      reply.  No military = pick your new foreign leadership.
                        \_ John, you my hero.
                        \_ Oh My God John I just creamed my shorts.  I wish
                           I wrote that.                -brain
                        \_ Funny how I knew this was John by line 2.  I got
                           as far as "mind control helmets".
                \_ I would totally LOVE to keep and save all the money that the
                   social security system is taking away from me to squander
                   on  the retirees of today.
                        \_ You get your turn when you're retired to screw the
                           children and grand children of the people who are
                           screwing you now.
                           \_  Unfortunately, I am of post-babyboom and
                               pre-echoboom, meaning that I get screwed
                               and when I try to screw, they have the
                               numbers to share the burden.  Maybe that
                               means I will have a comfortable retirement
                               even if I spend all my money today.
                                \_ Me too and no we won't because the 'echo
                                   boomers' are going to make sure there's lots
                                   of SS money in place before they get there.
                                   They'll outnumber the old geezers.  We'll be
                                   fine.  SS isn't the kind of program that can
                                   be changed over night and it isn't going
                                   away any time soon.
        \_  Pay down the debt = interest rates go down, bonds are less
            attractive (capital is cheaper), money is distributed to more
            efficient uses (ie. capital) ...  Virtually every credible
            economist, including Greenspan, supports paying down the
            debt before taxes.  The benefits of paying down the debt
        assumption of 1.5% average annual growth rate, which is way conservative.
        The average for the century (with Great Depression and all) is something
        like twice that, not to mention current growth rates...
            outway lower taxes.
                \_ Too bad we do neither to any great degree.
        \_ Ah, the sound of young impressionable minds soaking up libertarian
        propaganda. Government debt is not like yours or mine. Most of the
                           lack of a name in an inherintly anonymous forum.  I
        government debt is owned directly or inderectly (eq via pension funds)
        private individuals. So, we have a bunch of ordinary Americans repaying
        another bunch of ordinary Americans. Who exacly is getting a better deal
        - the lenders or the borrowers is, as usual, far from clear.
        The very popular study of Social Security going broke is based on the
        assumption of 1.5% average annual growth rate, which is way
        conservative.  The average for the century (with Great Depression and
                             \_ Oops, sorry I wrote that.  -- ilyas

        all) is something like twice that, not to mention current growth
        rates...
        Does the above poster imply that "Greenspan supports lower interest
        rates"? (simple transitivity) The way I understand Federal Reserve's
        current approach is that they see issuing government paper as primarily
        an instrument of monetary policy, not fiscal policy. -muchandr
        \_ Hey Muchkin, I never had a chance to ask what your political views
           were. -- ilyas
           \_ Then don't. Not on the motd.
              \_ Hey, the man isn't stupid, he can write me.
                 And sign your name.
                 -- ilyas
                 \_ What's up with the obsession with signing one's name?  If
                    they wanted to they would have in the first place, duh.
                    \_ Coward. -- ilyas
                        \_ G-duh! You're such an idiot.  "Anyone who doesn't
                           post everything with their real name like me is a
                           coward!!!!  -ilyas".  Sheesh, you and Tom.  At least
                           Tom is mature enough now to stop drooling over the
                           anon posters and dismissing them entirely merely for
                           lack of a name in an inherently anonymous forum.  I
                           suspect it'll take you even longer to grow up since
                           you're clearly less intelligent than Tom.
                           \_ It's 'inherently.'  And the motd isn't inherently
                              anything.  You can choose to sign your name and
                              stand by your words like me, or Tom, or psb or
                              you could just be an anonymous bombardier whose
                              words don't carry any weight. -- ilyas
                             \_ Anonymity does not make the words any less true.
                                And signing one's name doesn't make the words
                                any more true.  You're a perfect example of
                                the latter.  You sign everything yet your words
                                signify nothing.  Numerous anonymous people
                                here have provided a lot of useful and accurate
                                information.  Anonymity has nothing to do with
                                the quality or value of the contribution.  And
                                yes the motd is inherently anonymous as there
                                is no signing requirement or method to enforce
                                such a thing.  The default is anonymity.  If
                                you choose otherwise, that's nice, but not at
                                all relevent to anything.
                                \_ If they signify nothing then replying is
                                   a waste of time.  At any rate, I am of the
                                   opinion that truly tasteful flaming has to
                                   have a name behind it.  God knows there are
                                   lots of people I don't like, and I never
                                   had a problem telling them this to their
                                   face.  -- ilyas
                                   \_ I'm glad you're happy being a loutish
                                      boor.  The rest of us try to get along
                                      and mostly shut the fuck up when we don't
                                      like someone because telling them so won't
                                      improve matters and often makes it worse.
                                      And what does tasteful flaming have to
                                      do with anything?  Feeling like a topic
                                      change?
        \_ Since low private savings rate is considered a problem, what are
           are some approaches to increasing the incentive for private
           savings.
1999/11/8-9 [Finance/Shopping] UID:16848 Activity:high
11.8    Looking for really cheap CD labeller and labeller program. Suggestion?
        \_ sharpie marker
         \_ NeatO
                \_ http://neato.com not cheap
        \_ Permanent Marker (tm). Cost: $1-$2.
1999/9/27-28 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Finance/Shopping, Computer/HW/Display] UID:16604 Activity:high
9/27    Anyone know if and when LCD monitor price will drop?
        \_ when people start buying them.  go buy a few million so that
           i can afford one myself.
           \_ Actually, people *are* buying them.  There is and has been
              a shortage of supply, which is preventing prices from
              coming down (and adds to the cost of laptops).  See a good
              story about it at:
              http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/business/docs/computer28.htm
        \_ prices will drop slowly
        \_ Didn't it take a long ass time for regular 17" monitors to drop?
           I bought mine for $1k and it was that price until about a year and
           a half ago (or something like that).
           \_ I bought a 17" monitor 4 years ago for 600, although it was
              the cheapest model back then.
           \_ I bought a 17" monitor 4 years ago for $450.
              \_ Not new.  Off a truck maybe.  I got one for 650 four years
                 ago this summer.  The lowest on the market was around 600.
                 There weren't any $450 17" monitors four years ago.  Only
                 used, refurbs, and off the back of trucks.  You're either
                 confused or lying.  The high end was around $1300, btw.
                 $450?  Ridiculous!
1999/5/11-13 [Finance/Shopping] UID:15796 Activity:nil
5/11    recommend really cheap company that provides pager service?
        \_ Do you mean cheap as in the pager service is low priced
           or cheap as in the company is really cheap and wants to
           rip you off?
        \_ low priced.  not looking for anything fancy like
                alpha-numeric.  just cheap.  how hard can that be?
1999/1/28-31 [Finance/Shopping] UID:15311 Activity:nil
1/27    Where is a good place on campus to get cheap intro to swing dance
        lessons?
        \_ I tried the Tuesday-night swing dance lessons at Hearst Gym
           a few months ago. It wasn't exactly cheap ($5), but it
           was alright. I _think_ it's on Tuesdays. --jsjacob
           \_ It's on Fridays this semester.  You may also want to check
              out UCBD on Wednesdays, also in Hearst.  Re $5, it's cheaper
              if you join the club (at which point it's free).
              \_ what room and what time?  is there an url for this?
           \_ Oh god.  Will all the cs geeks please stop going to swing
             clubs?  It's starting to make me sick.
                \_ That's right, they should all become Mambo-dancing
                   sexpots, like me.  -John
                \_ That's funny; all the CS geeks I meet at clubs are
                   good dancers.
1999/1/6-7 [Consumer/Camera, Finance/Shopping] UID:15176 Activity:high
1/3     I'm planning to co-locate a server (with 13 gig of HD). What is a
        good and really cheap affordable backup tape drive I can buy, with good
        Linux drivers?
            \_ Basically, DLT > 8mm (Exabyte || AIT) or 4mm (DAT)
                In my opinion, you're better off with even a DLT2000
                than an Exabyte (reliability sux) or a DAT drive (reliability
                also wanx) because in my 4 years x.p. in the backup field,
                never once have I seen a DLT drive fail.  If it's cleaned
                properly, write errors are few.  The newer AIT drives are
                better than Exabyte's (incidentally, Exabyte declined SONY
                the right to OEM there brand, hence AIT was formed) in
                terms of quality and performance, however, the price is not
                cheap, nor has the basic architecture of 8mm changed---tape
                path from hell.  The DLT has a much more natural (fewer
                winding heads, less tape tention) tape path than 8mm or even
                DAT.  The newer DLT7000 drives easily get 5MB/sec native
                compression (non-compression).  AIT and the newest DDS3 hum
                around 3MB/sec.  Tape drive makers claim you can get 2:1
                hardware compression if you turn it on (i.e. double your
                performance to 10MB/sec), but this depends on how compress-
                able your data is (bitmaps, text, database) and it increases
                wear-and-tear on the drive heads (they must stop-and-wait-
                for-data-compression-write-stop-repeat).  If I had a choice
                between 8mm and 4mm, I'd actually go with the 4mm - 8mm is
                not any more realiable to be worth the extra $pacebux.  Let
                me know if you need software.

                And next time, sign your name so I can send email to you.
                                                        -mtbb
                \_ I've never seen an Exabyte fail except for single tape that
                   had been severely abused.  How often have you seen Exabyte
                   failures?

                        \_ When DLT 2000s & 4000s were coming out, all the
                        vendors of Exabytes were sick of the piles of RMAs.
                        Once they began shipping DLTs instead of Exabytes,
                        all-the-sudden, those RMAs disappeared.  The problem
                        with Exabyte drives is the Tape Path From Hell.  It
                        wears down the tape, the drive heads, and since there
                        are more moving parts, there is a much greater chance
                        of tapes being eaten up, read/write heads breaking,
                        etc.  I have never seen a DLT drive eat a tape like
                        an Exabyte.  AIT seems to have solved some of these
                        issues by reducing the number of spindles and creating
                        a better tape path and integrating memory chips into
                        the tapes themselves (helps load and seek times).
                        While DLT7000s are still quite pricy, I think the
                        best price/performance deal on the market is the
                        DLT2000XT.  If you want 8mm, avoid the 85xx and 87xx
                        series.  The 8900 (Mammoth) drive is fair, but
                        expensive.  I worked for a year and a half at a backup
                        hardware/software re-seller, then for another two and
                        half years at a backup software company.  With drives I
                        personally handled, I had no failures with DLT, 1/1
                        Mammoth had problems loading tapes, 1/1 8700 broke twice
                        and uncountable 8500/8505 drive failures.  As for DAT
                        only a few problems with those drives.
        \_ Any brand-name standard SCSI DAT drive (Seagate, HP, ...).  You
           might want to ask whether there have been problems with a
           particular model you're considering.
          \_ DAT absolutely sucks.  Get the cheap DLT drive or AIT.  -tom
             \_ Ive read alot of stuff about how DATs are bad, but I've used
                the Eliant 820 8mm from Exabyte and haven't had any probs w/
                it thus far, in fact it backs up http://www.housing.berkeley.edu --sly
                \_ DAT is 4mm, not 8mm.  The old 8mm Exabyte stuff sucks
                   pretty bad too but the newer may be better.  I'm skeptical
                   of AIT.  DLT is much more reliable, but $$$ and the tapes
                   and drives are big.  If you just want something dirt cheap
                   the 1/4" drives work ok for occasional backups, but the
                   tapes are expensive.  DAT is ok if the environment is
                   good and you keep everything clean.  -phr
                        \_ we have DAT tapes in machine rooms that we clean
                           twice monthly and use new tapes every 3 months and
                           still have horrible reliability.  -tom
                \_ Yeah, but have you ever successfully done a restore? -ausman
             \_ What about 8mm tapes like Exabyte?
                \_ What do you think AIT is? --dim
                   \_ there are lotsa differences btwn normal 8mm and
                      AIT dipshit.. a cheap AIT drive is prob the best
                      solution.. dlt 4000 is prob good too but prob
                      gon be a bit more expensive but every bit as good
                      -shac
                      \_ Is AIT an 8mm format or isn't it? --dim
                \_ AIT uses 8mm tapes but it's not compatible with old-style
                   exabyte formats.  -tom
1998/5/7 [Computer/SW/Languages, Finance/Shopping] UID:14065 Activity:low
5/6     Recommendations for where to buy $50 list price programming books
        cheap? - http://amazon.com? Barnes & Noble? book clubs? -- Thanks!
        \_ That would depend on the title. Check http://www.acses.com
           for a stylish comparison shopping agent for new books (or
           http://www.mxbf.com for used or out of print books)
           \_ Try http://www.books.com  Most of the books there are cheaper
              than both amazon and b&n.
              \_ Except they're part of Cendant Corp... evil, evil company.
        \_ ugh, <DEAD>www.bookpool.com!<DEAD> Where have you people been?
           \_bookpool rules.
1998/2/25-27 [Consumer/PDA, Finance/Shopping] UID:13737 Activity:high
2/25    Where's the cheapest place to get a Palm Pilot Pro?
                        \_ <DEAD>www.miamimeg.com<DEAD> $297 --aaron
                        \_ Fry's has good prices. but you can also buy
                                the mem upgrade there if you need it
        \_ Is Fry's cheaper than 199 for personal and $290 for pro and $100
           for upgrade at <DEAD>www.miamimeg.com<DEAD>
           \_ Frys prices change every couple days, and vary from being
              fairly expensive to pretty good. Since they don't have
              a website, you can't tell in advance. Best prices you
                \_ Pick up the phone and call.
                   \_ yeah, that'll work. we're talking about fry's here.
              can probably get are about $290-300 for the Pro. I've
              rarely seen prices that low on them at Frys. -cdaveb
           \_ Check out what's on clearance at Fry's.  I got a Cassiopeia
              for $100, when the regular price was $300.  -peterl
                \_ Did you ever once stop to think, "Why is this on
                   clearance?"  Maybe it sucks, so no one buys it?
                   \_ Of course.  I checked it out thoroughly before
                      buying.  It works fine.  The reason it was so cheap
                      was because they were discontinuing that item; For
                      $300 no one buys them, but for $100, they're pretty
                      cool.  -peterl
                \_FRY's sucks my cock.  What the hell is a Cassiopeia?
                  Did it actually WORK when you got it home??
                   \_  http://www.casiohpc.com  Yes, it works perfectly.
        \_ http://www.pdapage.com -mogul
        \_ I got my Pro plus modem for $370 incld tax from a computer show
1998/2/17-18 [Consumer/Camera, Finance/Shopping] UID:13688 Activity:high
2/17    where can i get 6 rolls of 35mm negatives reprint, cheap? -jwang
        \_ Price Club / Costco.  Even if you choose Kodak processing, it's
           still cheaper than Kodak processing in drug stores. --- yuen
           \_ If you don't mind hundreds of people pawing through the racks
              to find their film, ruining yours.
                \_ You get what you pay for.
1996/11/5 [Finance/Shopping] UID:31993 Activity:nil
11/4    And you people didn't belive shit^H^H^Hprintlink could be worse
        than BBNPlayNet...
        \_ This new connection is a joke, right? No one could believe
         this incredibly shitty lossy connection works, could they?
         I get better reliability and access time bouncing off
         the satellites to Antartica!
        \_ Anyone who said that the BBNplanet connection sucked has been
           living in SpoiledBratLand for a looong time. It's my theory
           that we switched to SprintNet because the campus decided it
           couldn't afford BBNplanet any longer and went with a cheaper
           service. (Sprintnet...)    -- Marco
         \_ It's not a theory - it's what actually happened (except
            that the reason we couldn't afford BBNPlanet is that they
            jacked up the University's rates when they went for-profit
              compared to what the non-profit BARRnet was charging one
            of it's co-founders).
          \_ Not to mention that all the UC campuses in Northern
             California will go out of one DS3 connection through
             SprintLink instead of individual connections for
             each campus individually.  Even UCOP which had been
             a CERFNet POP is now on the same SprintLink
             connection.  I mean even the CSU system has a
             CSUNet, where's the UCNet?!?
             \_ There is a UCNet inArticle Unavailable
1993/5/6 [Finance/Shopping] UID:31301 Activity:nil
5/4     Now that the high speed modems are in, does anyone know the best
        place around Berkeley to buy a USR Sportster?  I know I can find
        them cheap, but what is the absolute cheapest they sell for?
        (non mail order) -xxxxxxmp
        \_ Price Club's Zoom 14.4K, v.32 v.42 modem's only $250.
           Too bad they sold out.
        \_ Fry's USR Sportster $210, external, fax
         \_ DO mention if these are internal or external
        \_ A couple of places in the current Computer Currents show the
           USR Sportster 14400 w/o fax at $180 internal, $200 external.
           (with fax at $209 ext).  Best bet in Berkeley is to take up Uncle
           Ralph's "lowest price guarantee" and haggle there, but most cheap
           places are in South Bay...
           \_ I paid $205 at NCA in south bay...  -XXic
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Finance:Shopping:
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