Finance Investment - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2019/12/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/10/22 [Finance/Investment] UID:10734 Activity:nil
10/22   Niagara Jumper:  Why?
2003/10/19-20 [Finance/Investment] UID:10690 Activity:high
10/18   I want to buy HK / China stocks (ADRs and region funds won't do).
        Does anyone have any experience in regard to the feasibility
        (procedure, costs, tax, currency conversions, etc.) of opening
        a brokerage account (preferably online brokerage) in say Hong Kong
        for a US resident?  Any recommendations on which brokerage (HK or
        otherwise) to use?
        \_ or
           \_ thanks
        \_ Losing money on the Nasdaq and NYSE isn't good enough for you?
           See the link below about trudy the monkey.
           \_ It's been a very good year for me on Nasdaq and NYSE, but
              relatively speaking, US stocks are kind of expensive now,
           \_ It's been a good year for me on Nasdaq and NYSE, but
              and asia is where the growth is.  Used to be US falls,
              asia falls, because US is the market, but with booming
              China, recovering Japan, big US trade and budget deficits,
              I feel that this is no longer true.  I like Russia with
              Putin too.
              \_ You like Russia?  Say, why don't you just withdraw cash
                 from your bank account and throw it in the bay?  Better yet,
                 give it to me.
                 \_ If you look at what happened when the tech bubble
                    burst, US is as dangerous as any where else.  Yes,
                    burst, US is as dangerous as any where else.  Yes,
                    I like Russia.  Country was recently raised to
                    I like Russia.  Country was rescently raised to
                    investment grade.  Compare price and prospects of
                    say VIP and MBT versus Verizon and Sprint PCS with
                    all their debt, for example.
                        \_ yup, you have to be very careful but high risk =
                                high reward. I made a lot of money on VIP.
                           \_ Me too, 46% gain, and the good thing is it
                              still looks cheap.  Hey, let's exchange
                              stock tips sometime.
                              \_ So considering high risk = high reward, what
                                 is this difference between this and high stakes
                                 \_ The fundametals of VIP is good.  Compared
                                    to US wireless service providers, it has
                                    better valuation, it's market has more
                                    growth potential and less competition,
                                    and it has lower debt levels.
                                    \_ That's nice.  You didn't answer my
                                       question.  Why don't you try Vegas,
                                       there's more pussy than there is at
                                       Etrade, and its cheap!
                                       \_ troll, by research one can make a
                                          judgement that the odds of reward
                                          meet a certain level. in vegas, it's
                                       \_ Odds are better with stock trading.
                                          I think it's more than 50%.  As
                                          a game it's also more fun than
                                          blackjack, which bores me to tears.
                                          Pai Gow poker is more fun and
                                          slower in terms of losing money,
                                          but it is still not as fun as
                                          trading stocks.  There are risks
                                          no matter where you put your
                                          money.  Feel free to put it in
                                          a money market account if you
                                          feel that helps in earning you
                                          a comfortable retirement.  Note
              relatively speaking, US stocks are kind of expensive
              and asia is where the growth is.  Used to be US falls,
              asia falls because US is the market, but no longer.
              I like Russia with Putin too.
                 give it to me.
                    say VIP and MBT versus Verizon and Sprint PCS with
                    all their debt, for example.
                                       question.  Why don't you try Vegas,
                                       there's more pussy than there is at
                                       Etrade, and its cheap!
                                          that US$ will likely fall
                                          another 10-15% versus yen / euro
                                          in the coming months.
2003/10/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Finance/Investment] UID:10593 Activity:low
10/10   Free trade can hurt developing countries:
        \_ All trade policies, in fact all government policies hurt someone
           somewhere at someone else's expense.  There is no perfect trade
           policy.  There is no perfect law.  It's just a case of forming
           policies that help this country without hurting others worse
           than necessary.
        \_  Boy they are really stretching data based on a mess
            of assumptions.  (especially the independence of obviously
            not independent data).  All the data really shows is that
            rich countries are less corrupt than poor ones, which is
            far from earth shattering.  Take a look at their lame
            Note that the "closed" economies GDP only goes up to 9.
            Why did they include data on the US and UK then?  (and the
            rest above 9) because it gives them a much larger slope in
            their "rich to poor" corruption curve. -phuqm
            \_ The Economist comes to the same conclusion, though I have
               not seen the data to back up their reasoning. -AMC
               \_ The Economist has stated many times that the poor countries
                  are to benefit more from free trade than the rich countries,
                  that is, if the rich countries stop subsidizing and do remove
                  import barries on agricultural comodities, textiles, and other
                  goods that can be produced more cheaply in the developing
                  \_ yeah, so if you're in the middle class and "haven't
                     gotten yours," you should be concerned about globalization
                      \_ Everyone should be concerned with free trade.  It is
                         to everyone's benefit and the very first thing everyone
                         should be concerned with is eliminating the above
                         mentioned barriers on agriculture that the US (and
                         other rich countries put up) and specifically the US
                         should stop giving nearly 100 Billion dollars to rich
                         corporate farmers like ADM. -phuqm
                         \_ yes, you are right. i agree. --aaron
                             \_ Aaron agrees with me.  jeesh, i better rethink
                                This is a first ;) -phuqm
                         \_ ok, it will probably benefit the whole of
                            humanity, but will it benefit every individual?
                             \_ It will certainly benefit everyone who pays
                                taxes because the above-mentioned trade barriers
                                are raised with your taxes.
                             \_ The good of the many outweighs of the good of
                                the few.
                                \_ for the rest of our natural lives, the
                                   "many" that you talk about will be people
                                   who populate corporate boards, not the
                                   peons in third-world countries
                                   \_ Sucker.
                             \_ I don't care. -phqum
                  \_ Sure, but Ghana has no leverage or control over EU and
                     US farm policy. In the interim they have been better off
                     protecting nascent local industries until they can become
                     large enough to become export industries. This was
                     practiced with great success by Japan in the 60s, Hong
                     Kong in the 70s and Korea in the 80s. A wide open market
                     favors established industries to an overwhelming degree.
                     \_ and in the meanwhile.. the consumers will suffer. Also,
                        there are plenty examples where raising trade barriers
                        hurt the consumers (obviously) AND failed to make the
                        protected industries competitive.
                        \_ It is certainly a tricky balance to make. But those
                           countries that have successfuly made the jump from
                           developing nation to developed nation in the last
                           50 years all did it. Finding the right mix of
                           protectionism and unrestricted trade is hard or
                           everyone would have done it. The point is that
                           mindless devotion to the neoliberal model is bad
                           for developing countries. See Argentina, Russia
                           from 1991-1996 and many, many other examples.
                         mentioned barriers on agriculture that the US (and other
                         rich countries put up) and specifically the US should
                         stop giving nearly 100 Billion dollars to rich corporate
                         farmers like ADM. -phuqm
                     favors established industries to a great degree.
2003/9/19-20 [Finance/Investment] UID:10259 Activity:high
9/19    How old are you and what is your net worth?
        \_ 30, single, around $80k
        \_ 26, married, $208k/2
        \_ 25, single, around $80k
        \_ 30, single, around $415k
        \_ 28, negative - .com laid off worker.
        \_ 27, 300k
        \_ 25, around $100k
        \_ 23, 15k
        \_ 33, divorced, $9999999/2
        \_ 27, married, 300k
        \_ 33, married, $450k.  $1600 after-tax going to our parents every
           month and they don't let us claim them as dependents.  I put my sis
           thru Cal paying out-of-state tuition.  Got laid off once.
           \_ How does your wife feel about this?
              \_ Where do you think the $1600/mo comes from?  She's on an
                 Oakland corner.
        \_ 33, married, $450k
           thru Cal paying out-of-state tuition.
        \_ 33, married, 100k
        \_ 28, single forever, often unempolyed, 100k
        \_ 30, married, $600k
        \_ 30, married, $285k
        \_ 28, single, ~ $10-30K, I pay mortage for my parents and have gf
        \_ 30, married, $285k
        \_ 28, single, ~ $10-30K, I pay mortage for my parents and have gf
        \_ 28, single, ~ $10-30K, I pay mortage for my parents and have gf
           \_ Buying a house only decreases your net worth by a few thousand
              dollars due to loan points and fees.
           \_ you could sell the gf for at least 100k
              \_ Depends on how hot his gf is.
        \_ 38, single, 200k
        \_ Should I divide the net worth by two if I'm married?
        \_ most of these guys will be at 0k when they have to buy a house
           \_ Buying a house only decreases your net worth by a few thousand
              dollars due to loan points and fees.
        \_ Does money in 401(k) count?
           \_ Yes. All assets, including jewelry, car, and such minus your
              \_ Are mortgages and car loans considered liabilities
                 for this calculation?
                 \_ Yes.
                          \_ Yes but you can't ignore current market value or
                             how much has been paid off.  You *own* that part.
                    \_ No, that's stupid.  The house value is your equity +
                       the difference between buy price and potential current
                       sale price.
                       \_ If I read that properly, it looks the same as
                          market value minus mortgage.
                       \_ Mortgage is always a liability regardless what your
                          house value is.
                          \_ Yes but you can't ignore current market value or
                             how much has been paid off.  You *own* that part.
        \_ Is your spouse considered an asset or liability?
           \_ does she put out for strangers?
        \_ 33, married, 450k, two big salaries, no debts, low expenses, will
           be retiring by 50.
        \_ I read an article that says if your net worth is at least "annual
           salary * age / 10", you're in good shape.
           \_ Which article? Which magazine? Good shape for what?
              \_ It was in  By good shape I think it means
                 you're on the right track to be able to afford your current
                 lifestyle after you retire.
        \_ How ballpark are all your figures? What's the margin of error?
        \_ I'm assuming most (if not all) are including your property/options
           in net worth calculation. How much does everyone actually have in
           \_ 50k in checking, 20k in retirement plans, 10k in stock, the
              rest is house equity (I'm the first married guy, claiming
        \_ I'm assuming most (if not all) are including your property/options
                 lifestyle after you retire.
           in net worth calculation. How much does everyone actually have in
              \_ maybe not his
        \_ How ballpark are all your figures? What's the margin of error?
        \_ I'm assuming most (if not all) are including your property/options
           in net worth calculation. How much does everyone actually have in
           \_ 50k in checking, 20k in retirement plans, 10k in stock
           \_ 50k in checking, 20k in retirement plans, 10k in stock, the
              rest is house equity (I'm the first married guy, claiming
              300k, and that's not /2
              \_ Stocks count as cash?
        \_ 26, $2.15 -geordan
        \_ 26, $2.15 -geordan
        \- do any of you over 30 have no idea [like me] --psb
           \_ I had no idea, but it was pretty easy to estimate.
              \_ Great,  I'm 33, and my net worth is mostly determined by
                 my life insurance.
        \_ Arrr!
           \_ Avast!
              300k, and that's not /2
              \_ Stocks count as cash?
                 \_ If it can be sold M-F 8-4 at market rate with a button
                    push, yes.
              \_ Unless your checking account makes above-average interest
                 or you have high cash-flow, that's too much in checking.
                 I suggest moving most of it at least to a money market
                 account. Probably even a CD or bond ladder. If not a
                 stock mutual fund.
           \_ 33, married, $100k of $450k in cash, mostly in 401(k).
        \_ 26, $2.15 -geordan
           \_ Your organs alone are worth more than that.
              \_ maybe not his
        \- do any of you over 30 have no idea [like me] --psb
           \_ I had no idea, but it was pretty easy to estimate.
              \_ Great,  I'm 33, and my net worth is mostly determined by
                 my life insurance.
                 \_ life insurance? I didn't bother to think about that. how
                    much is the typical "cash value" of that? life insurance
                    don't matta when you're single
                    \_ Unless you want to give someone a motive to want
                       you dead.
2003/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Finance/Investment] UID:10252 Activity:nil
        The world economy is screwed.  Frightening.
        Perhaps it's time for the Greater China (PRC, ROC, HK, SG)
        region to allow its currency to appreciate slightly, and to
        spend its trade surplus on developing its own countries and
        people, but the region is not big or powerful enough to solve
        the world's problem by itself.  Also, US probably
        shouldn't have gone to Iraq, but saved the money, which
        would've helped a little too.  And Japan and Germany need
        to get their act together.  Otherwise it's Great Depression 2.
        \_ Its all the white imperialist protorapist fault!!!
           \_ Huh?  I am suggesting ways that would help lessen the
              burden on the US.  Blame goes all around.  Did you
              bother to read the article?
        \_ Err... read the article please.  The Economist consistantly
           point out that China's economy, despite media hype, is not
           that big of an economy (in the article about 1 month back,
           it said that China's economy is about the size of Italy,
           or 3% of Global GDP).  Further, China is not competing with
           USA in all front.  Those manufacture jobs will moved to
           somehwere else, Mexico, Indonesia, or some odd ex-Soviet
           block nation if it's not moved in China.   China is not
           running a high trade surplus in general (it has huge trade
           plus with USA, but trade deficit with virtually all its
           neighboring country, so in effect, China is the tiny
           lawn-mower engine of Asia... compare with USA being the
           jet engine of the world).
           Lastly, what would you think GM, Coke Cola, Motorolla think
           about rising RMB while big chunk of THEIR plant is in
           China?  These US firms are the benefisories of cheap Chinese
           \_ I don't disagree with you.  A few points though.
              Motorola, Coca-Cola, GM probably would not mind a slight
              controlled increase in the value of the Renminbi.
              They don't just have factories in China, an important
              and growing part of their market is very much there too.
              A pure export driven model like that of TW, SG, SK is not
              feasible for PRC because of its size.  It needs to be
              driven by internal demand.  Buying US dollars and debt
              forever is a no win game.  While US uses the money
              to invest and improve productivity (and spend on good
              life), China's local companies remain short of credit.
              And once US dollar devalues, you essentially threw
              away a big chunk of your dollars.  Instead, the money
              could be better invested in PRC, and help it innovate
              and move up the chain.  As for China's trade deficit
              ex-USA, a big part of it is raw materials and
              commodities from SE Asia, Australia, etc. needed for
              China's manufactures.  The trade deficit vis-a-vis Japan
              is more worrisome perhaps due to Japan's protectionism?
              As for manufacturing jobs moving to other countries,
              I am not too worried because I think China has a
              significant and growing margin (cost + productivity)
              versus those countries.  No one wants a sudden drastic
              increase in the value of the Yuan, but a slight,
              controlled increase may be a good idea.  This Econmist
              article pretty much sums it up:
        \_ Just a note. The Economist also uses every opportunity to point out
           that Russia's GDP is "slightly larger than Belgium's". Whoever at
           Economist who's making those ridiculous GDP comparisons between
           different countries, obviously hasn't gasped the concept of the
           purchasing power parity adjusted GDP.  They just compare the nominal
                      \- you know the e'ist is the magazine that invented
                         the BigMac index, right?
                         \_ An excellent point, but I should point out that
                            the Economist was merely the first publication
                            to popularize the BigMac Index.  It's been a
                            standard conversation topic among expats and
                            backpackers for much longer than it's been a
                            stay of the Economist.
                            \- topic of conversation != having a model and
                               computing it and correlating to FX futures,
                               comparing to PPP, UIP, RIP etc.
           GDPs as measured using US dollars using some exchange rate which is
           not saying much. In USA, dollar has a very low purchasing parity
           power compared to all poor counties and possibly most rich
           countries. Therefore, the non-purchasing power parity adjusted GDP
           does not convey much information about the size of economy. If you
           look at the PP adjusted GDP, then China is suddenly world's second
           largest economy. Of course, GDP still doesn't say much about how
           well off people are in a country. You'll have to look at the
           per capita GDP figures, and even then the per capita GDP can be a
           very rough measure depending on how equally on unequally the income
           is distributed.
           \_ And when you revalue the Yuan, PRC's GDP would go up immediately.
2003/9/18 [Finance/Investment] UID:10243 Activity:high
9/18    I'm a stock holder and I get the following question on the proxy
        YEAR 2004 EXECUTIVE BONUS PLAN. Directors Recommend: FOR"
        Except for the greedy ass execs, why would any stock holder in
        their right mind vote for "FOR"?
        \_ Everyone washing everyone else's back.  Your vote doesn't matter
        \_ maybe you *haven't read* the thing and it's actually
           decreasing their bonuses or something. and if not, the
           answer is, invariably, some people are stupid! duh.
        \_ The presumption is that by giving these bonuses the execs will
           be better motivated to increase the value of your stock.  Whether
           or not it works is another question.
        \_ The big shareholders (corporate or institutional) fear change
           in leadership even more than slightly below average leadership. By
           approving bonuses, they keep the current execs and avoid possible
           randomness in stock price, speculation, lack of direction, etc.
        \_ don't worry, the NASDAQ board is going to give themselves a
        bonus for ousting Grasso
        \_ what is FOR?
2003/9/13 [Finance/Investment] UID:10182 Activity:nil 50%like:29537
9/12  $200 GWBush currency
2003/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:10137 Activity:very high
9/10   (
        Alabama voters suckered into voting down modest tax hike.  School
        programs in jeopardy.  Only the rich and middle class would have paid
        for it but polls showed only mixed support among blacks and lower
        income voters!  This is appalling!  I blame the media for this
        \_ 19% of Americans think that they are in the top 1% of wage earners
           and 20% more think that they *will* be in that top 1% within their
           lifetime... this should help explain why so many Americans like
           Bush's tax policy (Source: Economist)
                              \_ could you elaborate on where I can find this?
                                 \_ I read it in this week's print edition.
           \_ Wow, I've always thought this sort of thing was true but I've
              never seen numbers to back it up.  What a sorry bunch of
              delusional wage slaves.
           \_ Damn, now that I thought about this a little further, that's
              just pathetic.  I believe the top decile is around $80k, correct
              me if I'm wrong, so there are people that make under $80k that
              believe they're in the top 1%?
              \_ You were close, top 20% of households is at $83.5k:
                 Oops, I actually used real data on the motd? I hope my account
                 doesn't get sorry'd.
                 \_ what do they mean by household income?  I make 90k and
                    my hubby makes 80k.  does that mean our household income
                    is 170k?
                    \_ Yes, and those numbers would put you in the top 5%, so
                       now you can stick it to the rest of us!  (Does anyone
                       have figures for the top 4%, 3%, 2%, 1% so that we can
                       see how, for the lack of a better word, asymptotic it
                    \_ 90k and 80k doing what? How long does it take to get
                       \_ The real question is how to break that barrier. 100k
                          is easy. 200k is much harder.
                       \_ I was making $85k/yr as a sysadmin 5 years out
                          of college. This was the boom years though.
           \_ so what is the range of gross income for a middle class?
              $40k-80k? If someone who can afford a $50k car does that qualify
              him/her as a well off middle class or upper class?
                 The poverty line is $18k for a family of four, so the bottom
                 of what is the middle class must be much lower, unless you
                 think half of America is "poor."
                 \_ The federal pvoery definition is so out of whack that most
                    social and economics statistics reporting work around with
                    stats like % within n multiples of poverty line.
                     -- ulysses, whose wife writes socioeconomic
                       studies for a living.
                     \_ Fine then, most of America is poor by your very
                        odd definition of it. Look at the tables. 13% of
                        Americans live in families that make below the
                        poverty levels. Most people who live in families
                        with incomes of $25k think of themselves as
                        "middle class", no matter how much self-entitled
                        Cal students and grads would piss and moan at having
                        to survive on it.
        \_ "866,623 people opposed [it] while 416,310 voted for it" ???
            There are roughly 1.3 million people in Alabama? Isn't that a
            pretty low voter turn out?
            \_ voter turnout in this country is always low
        \_ I find this site illuminating:
                \_ retarded. or should i say...
                   you are so obviously a fat sysadmin.
                   \- note by the way: you should not just focus on income
                      but wealth also. e.g. i know some modestly paid
                      teacher in the silicon valley who have lived there
                      since the 60 or early 70s and owned millions of
                      dollars in real-estate. note also there are some
                      well-defined groups for whom current income is
                      artificially low. like some law/med/engineering
                      graduate students. does anyone know which congressman
                      suggested changing the exempt amount before the "death
                      taxes" kicked in to $100m to shut up the people talking
                      about the farmers and small business owners?
2003/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:10132 Activity:high
9/10    How many libertarians does it take to change a light bulb?
        None, the invisible hand will do it.
        \_ Bzzt.  It's my light bulb, and I'll fix it when I goddamn want to,
           not when it suits the government.
           \_ ...and if you can't afford a lightbulb, it's your own damn fault
              for not being an overpaid dickhead sysadmin.  As long as my taxes
              are low, i don't give a damn if you freeze in the dark, you
              fucking plebe.
              \_ p.s. - I'm gonna go eat another Top Dog. I heart Ayn Rand
                 \_ ...but I don't feel any compulsion to pay for her books
                    when I can dl them off the net for free.
2019/12/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/9/5 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:10085 Activity:high
        America's inequality is due to its rich people doing especially well
        compared to other countries' rich people.  It poor people is doing
        about the same as other countries' poor people.
        \_ You mean all those countries that don't even have a middle
           class, and where the poor have absolutely no mobility?
        \_ So to make this fair we should provide welfare for foreign rich
        \_ Bottom 80% of Americans only own 17% of the country's wealth.
           Hahaha! Poor bastards!
        \_ The rich are already doing so well, and we are still cutting
        \_ The rich are already doing so well, and they are still cutting
           their income tax and inheritance tax.
           \_ Leaving them more capital to create more jobs.
              \_ As Warren Buffett noted, giving more money to rich people
                 doesn't create more jobs--because rich people don't spend
                 as much of their money.  If you give money to people who
                 actually *need* it and will spend it, *that* will create
                 And more fundamentally, the fact that our rich are doing
                 better than other countries, but our poor aren't, is
                 *exactly the problem*.  -tom
                 \_ Buffett is a moron, and apparently you are too.  If rich
                    people don't spend the money on consumer goods, they'll use
                    the money in a different way--investing it, etc.  Even
                    putting it in a bank account allows more loans to people who
           \_ Leaving them more capital to create more jobs.
                    don't have the capital to make large purchases out of
                    \_ Nope, ultimately you need people to spend money.
                       Now ordinary Americans have too much debt already
                       and the interest rate is already very low.  You
                       want your average American to have even heavier
                       \_ You miss the part about loans to people who then
                          start small businesses which are the backbone of
                          the American economy?  Quoting Warren Buffet on
                          anything is akin to calling someone a Nazi in an
                          online debate.  It's pointless and demonstrates
                          lack of ability to think.  "He's rich so he must
                          know lots about macro economics!  Let's do whatever
                          this rich dude days because he's one of us!"  Uh huh.
                          \_ Quoting Warren Buffet is actually poignant in
                             this case.  Even Alan Greenspan acknowledges the
                             pure and simple fact that if you give the money
                             back to the consumer class, that it will have
                             more of an effect in the short term.  Giving
                             money to the investor class does nothing for the
                             short term, only potentially for the long term.
                             The investor class does nothing with the money
                             but hoard it and reinvest, that does not create
           their income tax and inheritance tax.
           \_ Leaving them more capital to create more jobs.
              other than "it makes me feel better to hurt someone else"?
                             jobs, that only creates wealth (which may create
                             jobs a ways down the road).  -mlee
              \_ Okay, by that argument if the government gave me a billion
                 dollars, I would automatically use it to hire a bunch of
                 Americans instead of blowing it on hookers, eightballs, and
                 multiple NASA space-tourism jaunts.  I say you give me the
                 money, and let's see what happens.
                 \_ Which would create more jobs for hookers, NASA workers, etc.
                    The money wouldn't simply disappear.  It gets put back into
                    the economy.
                    \_ Great, so pony up the cash, Daddy Warbucks.  Giving
                       me the money the rich would save in these tax cuts
                       would benefit the economy just as much as giving it
                       to them.
                       \_ Although it would create jobs for hookers, there are
                          more efficient ways of creating jobs.  You are not a
                          prime job creation engine for the economy.  Maybe in
                          another life you'll be Warren Buffet and people will
                          blindly quote you simply because you're rich.
                          \_ And any rich schmoe is a prime job creation
                             engine? Horsehockey.  Saying that we should give
                             tax breaks to the rich because they'll spend
                             the money and therefore employ people is not
                             only naive, it's perverse.
                          \_ There are "more efficient ways"?!?!  Yes, there
                             are, but going through gov't is guaranteed to not
                             be more efficient.
           \_ Dummy, by definition "the rich" are *always* doing well.  Is
              this so hard to comprehend?  The important part is *who* is
              rich, how did they get there, what are they doing to stay there,
              and how hard is it for someone else to get there?  Does raising
              taxes on "the rich" help the middle class or poor in any way
              other than "it makes me feel better to hurt someone else"?
              \_ The rich gain more from the promotion of a strong US
                 military, civil order, and national infrastructure than
                 do the poor, hence the rich should pay proportionately
                 more in taxes.  In addition, if the rich pay more in taxes,
                 the poor and middle class need not pay as much in taxes; if
                 this does not constitute help, I would like to know
                 what does.
                 \_ That's totally false. The rich actually use less gov't
                    resources than the poor, by far. If you are rich, you
                    can support yourself and don't require gov't intervention
                    in things like healthcare, housing, employment, childcare,
                    schooling, and sustenance. In contrast the poor drain
                    gov't resources like crazy. The poor also have bigger
                    families, and those families are gov't subsidized.
                    \_ You're missing the point:  the rich have more to lose
                       in the case of a weak military, civil disorder, and
                       a crumbling infrastructure (as business relies on
                       the infrastructure to make things run smoothly and
                       the rich depend on business).  They have more at
                       stake and therefore should pay more.
                      \_ Yeah why should I spend all that money on the
                         military to protect my total asset of $200
                         in the bank?  Since the top 1% has 50% of the
                         country's wealth, they should pay 50% of its
                         \_ 1) they don't.  2) they already pay more than
                            their percent income.  3) if you've got $200 to
                            your name and minimal or no income you're a
                            deficit, not a plus for the economy.  you're taking
                            out waaaay more in infrastructure costs than you'll
                            ever put back in.  how does water get to your tap?
                            who paves your roads?  who pays the cop that stands
                            on the corner?  puts out your fires?  brings food
                            to your local market?  runs wires to your hovel?
                            you can't even begin to pay for what you're sucking
                            from the tax payers in this country past, present,
                            and future.  you're a net loss.
                            \_ Where did you get the idea about "minimal or no
                               income"?  I am in the top 19% who thinks they
                               are in the top 1%.  In anycase, it's just to
                               illustrate a point.
                            \_ Check the tax tables: you're paying a max of
                               38%, and if you're that rich and can't afford
                               a tax-deductible accountant to steer you
                               through the loopholes, I have a bridge in
                               New York I think you might be interested in
              \_ Why yes, it does. Raising taxes on the rich allows more
                 spending on things like education, child care, and
                 health care that increase the standard of living of
                 the middle class and increase productivity for the
                 entire economy. Why do you think that European productivity
                 has been growing faster than American for over a generation?
                 If you look at stats for the middle 50%, you can see
                 that wages in America have stagnated for the average
                 worker, while they have gone up almost everywhere else.
                 Americans are working longer hours and seeing less
                 for it, while the opposite is true in the other
                 industrialized nations.
                 \_ Ask the typical out of work German or Frenchman how much
                    they enjoy the 2:1 taxpayer/leech ratio in their countries.
                    In a generation, it'll be 1:1 in several EU nations.  It
                    isn't sustainable.  The EU nations have sold their future
                    to their past.
2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Politics/Foreign, Finance/Investment] UID:12242 Activity:kinda low
        Trade Gap widens.  Imports and raw material prices rising.
        Inflation coming.  Uh oh, doomsday scenario is coming true.
        Dollar falling like a rock and interest rate going up.
        Not bad for a Friday the 13th.
        \_ Inflation hasn't been and stayed this low for decades.  You want
           inflation?  Go checked out the Carter years for what real inflation
           looks like.  The rest of that stuff fluctuates over time.  Why are
           you so thrilled with the idea that our economy might collapse?  I
           hope you understand that something as big as the US economy is not
           under the control of the President, or the Federal government as a
           whole and cheering for a global economic collapse so your guy can
           get into office is simply sheer stupidity.  Have you ever talked to
           anyone who lived through the Depression?  If you had you wouldn't
           be so rah-rah about the economy possibly tanking for real.
           \_ am I supposed to be rah-rah about the economy when there is
              nothing to be rah-rah about it?  the great depression happened
              precisely because people became too optimistic about the
              economy.  are you on drugs?  as for inflation, I think everyone
              knows it is low, what people are concern is the direction
              it's going to go cause that will affect interest rate which
              may cause problems with various bubbles.
              \_ you don't have to rah-rah anything.  i simply told you there's
                 no reason to claim gloom and doom.  mild inflation is not an
                 economic problem.  it is quite natural.  only the insane,
                 short sellers, and hostile foreign powers rah-rah when the US
                 economy is in trouble.  i doubt you're a hostile foreign
              \_ Hey you are the same "are you on drugs" person trolling the
                 motd below.
                 \_ what have you been smoking?  "are you on drugs" is
                    a common phrase on the motd.
        \_ No, no. You got it wrong. Our prices are just low, Low, LOW! You
           gotta buy American! High Quality! Excellent prices! 10% off? That's
           not enough! 20% off? No way! 50% off? WAY! Now we're talking! And
           why such a deal? 'Cause Crazy George is our manager and he wants
           to let you know it's ALL FOR SALE! Need credit? Crazy George will
           lend you the cash! Buy it! It's all good! Why worry about tomorrow
           when you can have fun TODAY! SWEET! BUY! YEEEARRRG!
2003/8/9-10 [Finance/Investment] UID:29290 Activity:nil
8/8     Is there a good way to short tech stocks besides shorting QQQ
        or shorting individual stocks?  QQQ is too general and has some
        non-tech stocks and is also overweighted by dell, intel and msoft
        which I don't particularly want to short.  Shorting individual
        stocks is too much work and has high overhead.  I see a whole
        bunch of tech stocks that are overvalued but shorting just one
        or two is too risky for me.
        \_ Options. They are cheap to buy. --dim
           \_ and easy to lose your shirt on
        \_ You could short an exchange traded fund like IIH if you can find
           one that trades over $5 still.
           \_ Why must it be over $5?
2003/8/7-8 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:29274 Activity:nil
2003/8/7-12/1 [Finance/Investment] UID:10002 Activity:nil 66%like:10692
8/6/3   /vol/office is back.
2003/8/1-2 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:29208 Activity:insanely high
8/1     Regarding stimulating the economy, how about creating new
        infrastructures like super highways, subways, dams, and other
        things that we have not been building since the 30s and 40s?
        It will create a LOT of job opportunities for the poor. I mean,
        this whole tax cut thing does nothing for people who are laid off,
        and the only people really benefiting from it are the people who
        already have a lot of money or people who have stable jobs.
        \_ why work so hard when we'll get it for free soon enuf
        \_ And who's going  pay for this? local gov't? According to
           Davis we're broke. Anyway, the public works programs of the 30's
           have been largely discredited by economists as failed social
           experiments. Dams, btw, cause major ecological disasters for
           people living downstream. Also, remember that there's a long
                        \_ and upstream
           term cost to junk like subways and highways. If they're not
           maintained they break down, and it only makes sense to build
           this if there's a need for it.
                \_ Germany dithered for years about building the Transrapid
                   (look it up) citing ecological damage, economic necessity,
                   (their train system is in chaos compared to 10 years ago),
                   labor problems, bla bla bla.  The Chinese, meanwhile, told
                   Siemens to go ahead and just do it, and now have a working
                   super-high-speed rail corridor near Shanghai.  In the 1930s,
                   before people knew the damage dams did, FDR went ahead and
                   blew wads of cash on big prestigious projects, giving the US
                   a massive boost in electrification, as well as a ton of jobs
                   that helped kick-start the economy, critics be damned.  Now
                   for 10 points, what's the lesson here?  -John
           \_ Which economists? Milton Friedman maybe. Many (most?) economists
              disagree with your statement.
        \_ bush does not care about the poor or what's really good for
           the economy. fuck the republicans. All they want is $$$ for
           themselves. They don't give a fuck about people who gets laid
           off or otherwise have no money. Short of a revolt, there's nothing
           to be done. wait for the next election.
           \_ I think you should step forward and kill him to save us all.
              Afterwards I'm sure everyone will understand when they have jobs
              and stuff from the policies you implement such as...?
              \_ building infrustrature, pump $$$ into the economy (instead
                 of tax cuts, wars), there are a billion things to do.
              \_ How about tax cuts for the middle class?
              \_ remember how shitty the economy was when Clinton took over?
                 guess you are too young to remember those times. There ARE
                 things to be done. It's just Bush has his own agenda and is
                 not doing any of it. Rich people don't give a shit. Actually
                 rich people does not like booming economy because it makes
                 them less 'rich' compare to the rest of the people.
                        \_ Clinton inherited 2 quarters of 4% GDP growth,
                           lest we make up facts.  The first act of his
                           presidency was to RETROACTIVELY raise taxes.
                           This depressed economic for quite some time, to
                           the point his 1996 reelection was in doubt.
                           Don't let the facts get in the way of your
                 \_ I actually think you are right. "Old money" gets annoyed
                    when there are too many new millionaires sniffing around.
                 \_ Clinton didn't actually do anything.  It was all cyclical,
                    with some perception mixed in.  -John
        \_ here's an idea, instead of giving the poor people a break (e.g.
           creating jobs for them), how about substantial tax raise for the
           rich? I mean, 90% of US is owned by 5% of the US population
           anyways. Oh wait, they also control (via lobby, SIG, etc) our
           politicians. Nevermind.
        \_ You are amazingly stupid.  The rich who get more $$ in their cut do
           what with the money?  Put it in mattresses?  No, moron.  They invest
           it, create business opportunities, etc.  That creates jobs, without
           corrupt Gov't middle-men (re: The Big Dig).
           \_ All those Coach handbags, Cartier watches and Tiffany Diamonds
              don't really do much for the economy. I am not convinced
              "the rich" are any wiser investors than bad ole' gubment.
              \_ Ah yes, because no one is employed manufacturing, shipping, or
                 selling those things, right?  Enough with the class warfare.
                 \_ Amazing how tax cuts for the rich are called "returning the
                    people their money" while tax cuts for the middle class
                    are called "class warfare." You can tell when the other
                    side has no facts to back up their position. They have
                    no other choice but to turn to ad hominem attacks.
                    \_ Hello Mr. Pot.  Meet Mr. Kettle.  I didn't call tax cus
                       for the middle class class warfare.  The claim that rich
                       people spend all their money on luxuries is class
                       warfare.  How you can have a tax cut for the middle class
                       that does not benefit the rich more?
                       \_ Cutting payroll taxes for instance, since income
                          above $78k is not taxed. The claim that luxuries
                          do not stimulate the economy is not class warfare,
                          simply an observation that you do not have any
                          reply to except to charge "class warfare."
                          \_ you're a few years behind, dude.  Try 87k,
                             and that is because Social Security pays
                             based on how much you put in.  Hence, a max.
2003/7/31 [Finance/Investment] UID:29196 Activity:nil
7/31    Why are bond yields rising and bond prices dropping when the
        Fed interest rate is so low?
        \_ Bond yields are set by the market, not by governmnet fiat.
           Bond investors are demanding a higher yield right now, especially
           on long term bonds because of two things:
           1) inflation risk
           2) relative attractiveness of equities
2003/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:29195 Activity:high
7/31    How does the US government make up for its budget deficit?
        Does it print the money or does it borrow money?  If borrow
        money, how does it do it?  Is it through what they call
        "treasury notes"?  And how does that relate to the "Fed
        interest rate" used for stimulating/cooling the economy?
        Is it possible that there would not be enough interest in
        the "treaury notes or whatever" due to interest rate
        being too low such that the government is forced to raise
        the rates to finance its budget deficit?
        \_ The US government borrows money from the treasuries market, yes.
           There is no direct relation between the Fed overnight rate
           and the bond rate. Government demand for borrowed money
           pushes up interest rates.
           \_ When people buy trearuries, where does the money go?
              Does the Fed just keep the money in a vault, or does
              the government spend it?  I guess my question is when
              there is a budget deficit, where does the government
              get the extra money?  Do they have some kind of reserve
              (federal reserve?) or need to make bond offerings
              \_ Don't confuse The Fed (a bank) with the Federal Government.
                 The federal government borrows money by issuing bonds. I
                 don't know how else to explain it. It is different than
                 just printing money because they promise to repay bonds.
                 A lot of the money used to finance US government deficit
                 spending comes from overseas investors.

                 \_ Is the Fed just like a regular bank?  Say, can I open a
                    savings or checking account at the Fed?
                 \_ Thanks, things are clearer now.  Are there no
                    connection at all between the the Fed and the Federal
                    Government?  There is never any money transfers
                    between the two entities?  Also, does the Fed only
                    lend out money?  Does it ever borrow money?
                    Where does it get all the money?  Is it in charge
                    of printing money?  It only lends to banks and
                    never directly to companies or individuals, right?
                    \_ This is way too much to answer in the motd.
                       \_ useful!
           \_ Is the link like, since the fed rate is so low, I have
              to put my money somewhere else, like bonds and stocks,
              so that causes bond rates to drop and stock market to
              go up.  Is that how the fed rate is supposed to affect
              the economy?
              \_ That is part of it. Another part is that since The Fed
                 is lending money at such a cheap rate to banks, they
                 are encouraged to lower their rates on things like
                 car and home mortgages. Since the money is so cheap
                 for the banks, they can lower their rates and still
                 make a profit. They can't lower them too far though,
                 since they are taking on the risk that rates will go
                 up in the future and they will be stuck with a crappy
                 \- um it's not possible to address all of the issues
                    in here except maybe give references. but quickly:
                    1. the treasury doesnt do much. they write the checks
                       but dont manage the money. they are a instrumental
                       player in fiscal policy. most of the churn in treasury
                       instruments is turn over in debt obligations [paying
                       off one matruing instruments and selling to someone
                       [mostly likely a bank] who wants to buy one. most of
                       the volume is not to fianance deficit spending.
                    2. the fed matters. they are the govt's bank and
                       the czar of the overall money supply/money base.
                       they are the main players in monetary policy.
                       the main way they control the money supply are
                       open markey operations run by the trading desk
                       at the new york fed. they can also affect money
                       supply by banking reg changes like reserve requirements
                       but that is really a sledgehammer and rately done.
                       the treasury also keeps money with the fed [the fed
                       has a hell of a lot more money at the ny fed than
                       fort knox ... probably something very few people knew
                       until whatever diehard movie that mentioned this].
                       a lot of money is created by fiat rather than
                       actually creating federal reserve notes or treasury
                     3. as in the above case about trade balance it is best to
                        start with accounting identities and defns to under-
                        stand the fundametnals. the govt can fiance a deficit
                        by raising taxes, selling assets or borowing from
                        private sources, foreign sources, or from the fed.
                        [note: raiting taxes != raising tax rates ... we
                        survive debt and deficits in part by GDP growth]
2003/7/31-8/1 [Finance/Investment] UID:29194 Activity:moderate
7/31    Does "current account deficit" == "trade deficit"?  I kind
        of understand how it affects forex rates, but does it also
        have an effect on bond yields and bond prices?
        \_ No, trade deficit is just the difference in goods and
           services, while current account deficit also includes
           investment. It has an effect on bond prices because
           \- hello i believe that is sort of misleading.
              i have left a somewhat extended comment at:
              ~psb/trade-accounting.txt. ok tnx. --psb
           some of the imported/exported money goes to the bond
           market. In the US for example, most imported money is
           used to buy treasuries. It is different in other
           countries. -ausman
2003/7/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:29159 Activity:moderate 75%like:29154
7/26    What is a good book(/other) about currency trading?
        \_ "Heart of Darkness?"  Why don't you find an honest way to invest,
           \_ your vitriol excites me.  Are you accepting applications for
              \_ you will paint silly slogans on your buttcheeks and run around
                 without pants in front of the webcam on sproul.  you will
                 then bury your resume in gravel for 5 years, unicylcle
                 acreoss the bay bridge in critical mass, and report back
                 to the motd.
           \_ honest?  it's high risk. it is not in any way dishonest or
              ethically different than other financial investment options.
              did you get robbed?  that could've happened to you in any
              market.  you got greedy and got burned.
        \- uh it depends a lot on your fianance and math background and
           your interest in the theory-practice spectrum. for general
           stuff you can look at one of the JCox books. There are also
           some books by DeRosa. you might read some stuff by R. Mundell
           on fundamentals. i havent been keeping up on the literature for
           5-6 years so these might be somewhat non-contemporary but i wouldnt
           call what they cover out of date. note: a lot of the good books in
           this area are really expensive. i suspect the classics will be
           hard to get from the lib. might be a good "secondary market"
           however. a good WEEB site is --psb
        \_ I thought currency trading was all about finding negative cost
           cycles in dags? -- ilyas
                     \- do you mean dir acyclic graph or is this some
                        finance terms i dont know? if you are referring to
                        fast ways to compute arbitrage stratgies, there is
                        more to FX than arbitrage. for home users arb is
                        hardly the business to get into. --psb
                        \_ Yup, directed acyclic graph.  Probably need
                           lots of money to make money on arbitrage.
                           -- ilyas
        \_ damn you guys are rich
           \_ yeah, don't you need like $3million in an account before you are
              covered to make these kinds of trades?
        \_ if you had enough skill and money and knowledge to successfully
           get into arbitrage you wouldn't be asking here about it.  your
           question is no different than, "i sometimes have headaches, what
           is a good book on brain surgery on yourself?"
           \_ isn't this the stuff that you can get a job making $400K+
              immediately after finishing an an NYU PhD about?
              \_ sometimes, yes.  it's also easy for everything to fall to
                 shit in minutes while you're in the bathroom.  it's *very*
                 high stress and most people don't last more than 3 years in
                 the field before they completely burn out.  arbitrage is a
                 24x7 activity.  they can never sleep.  they have to have
                 alerts and triggers set to wake them if something ugly
                 happens on the market with zero response time.  etc,etc,etc.
2003/6/18-19 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:28761 Activity:insanely high
6/18    three years ago it was a stock bubble.  now it's a property value
        bubble.  the day of reckoning will come.
        \_ Bubble does not mean what you think it means.
           \_ Bubble Bobble rocks!
              \_ But Bubble Sort sucks.
                 \_ It's as simple as something that nobody knows.
           \_ I don't think the phrase "does not mean what you think
              it means" means what you think it means.
              \_ Bubble does not mean "slightly inflated." Do you think
                 that housing prices are going to drop 90%? You are
                 a moron if you do.
                 \_ japan... late 80's... mumble mumble...
                    \_ yes, that was a bubble. Tokyo land prices fell by
                       80-90%. Do you think that is going to happen to
                       land prices in the US? In California? In San
                       Francisco? I do not.
                       \_ It doesn't have to pop that much. A drop of 20%
                          would be pretty catastrophic.
                          \_ Yeah that would suck.  I'd be back to only about
                             $20k above what I paid 3 years ago....
                             \_ As an economy it's disasterous. What happens
                                you personally is less important.
                                \_ To *me* there's nothing more important. the
                                   same is true of every other individual.  it
                                   is nice that there's at least one person out
                                   there who cares more about this ephemeral
                                   thing known as "the economy" more than his
                                   own situation.  I'm glad to know you.
                                   \_ I'd rather have an okay job in a good
                                      economy than slightly better one in a
                                      poor economy. Less chance of my job being
                                      cut, better chance of upgrading it.
                          \_ Okay, I'll bite. Why would it be catastrophic?
                             This happened in 1991 in California and it
                             wasn't exactly the end of the world.
                             \_ It just would be.  It's the motd.  You expect
                                him to back up his statements?
                             \_ The state is $38B in debt. Your city is cutting
                                services. Another 20% drop in prop taxes, more
                                services get cut. More fees go up, more taxes,
                                jobs leave overtaxed CA, you're stuck with a
                                suddenly overpriced house with no job.
                 \_ bubble is as bubble does.
        \_ keep dreaming, renter.
        \_ If it pops I'll still own a house and you will still be
           \_ No, you'd be paying for a house that's worth less than your
              loan. Negative equity. A Bad Thing.
              \_ Short term effect.  God is making more people.  He isn't
                 making more land.  In the long term no one has ever lost
                 money on real estate.  In the mean time you're paying a
                 land lord and owning nothing.  Even if the home price drops
                 a few percent below the buying price it is still financially
                 more sound than paying rent.
                 \_ Is God making more high paying jobs too? If you lose
                    your job at the same time your house drops a few percent,
                    you may end up in a bad spot. That said, I'm all for
                    buying a house if you can afford it. Just know the risks.
                    As in most things in life, it is not a sure deal.
                    \_ Anytime you lose your job you'll be in a bad spot. Will
                       your landlord stop asking for rent? At least with a
                       house there is a chance that you'll have equity and
                       maybe even own the place outright.
                    \_ Since my mortgage money has been going into a loan and
                       unlike a renter I actually *own* some part of the place
                       I live I have the option of drawing down against the
                       house so I won't be on the streets when times get hard.
                       As a renter with no job, I've got a pillow, an old
                       blanket and some rent receipts to get me through the
                       tough times.  How does being a jobless and homeless
                       ex-renter sound compared to jobless home owner?
                       \_ More money saved up and able to move someplace where
                          there are more jobs without worrying about selling
                          my house. Portability is part of the appeal.
2003/6/17-18 [Finance/Investment] UID:28748 Activity:very high
6/17    I know the .com days of ugrads trading on etrade are long dead, but
        I haven't heard any economy stuff on the motd these days... so...
        what are the predictions on the DOW hitting 10,000? if, and when?
        also, is that a good or bad sign?
        \_ As long as Bush is in office, we are f*cked.
           \_ why?
              \_ economic policy based upon benefiting small group of
                 people which is politically important (read: farm bills,
                 steel tariff, lift estate tax and reduce stock dividends,
                 you name them); lavish military spending (Afghanistan,
                 Iraq), and shows no fiscal discipline... for starters.

                 \_ and this is new to this administration?  hi idiot!
                        \_ well it is more extreme.  Bush's budget has
                           planned for record deficts.  Almost 1.5 times
                           as high in 2003 dollars as the last record defict
                 market.  look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth for
                 decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth
                 for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price at
                 least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                 some good stuff out here.
                           that was created by... yup that's right, his dad.
                           Funny how the democrats are the party of responsible
                 some good stuff out here.  among the stuff above, still like
                           spending these days.
                           \_ No, they just raise taxes endlessly to pay for
                              the votes they need to buy to stay in office and
                              keep the poor dependent on government.
                              \_ Here are stats even a neocon can understand:
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some
                 growth for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries
                 like headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price
                 at least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                                 Democrats have decreased the size of the
                                 government, Pugs increased it for the last
                                 five presidents.
              \_ because no matter how well or poorly the economy does, the
                 "we are f*cked" person is so deeply entrenched in their
                 own hatred they can't believe anything else.  the comment
                 has nothing to do with the economy but with irrationally
                 deep personal political philosophy.
                 \_ Nonetheless, we are still f*cked.
                    \_ *laugh* whatever.
        \_ I don't know about economy, but I've been making a killing in the
                 some good stuff out there.  among the stuff above, still like
           stock market. like 80% return since last october.  It's as good as
           \_ how do you do that? derivatives?
              [ kinney's drivel deleted]
              \_ just pick the right stocks, and you don't even have to go
                 into those high risk stocks, just all your basic boring
                 value stocks like best buy, helen of troy, american eagle,
                 fossil, blue rhino, netbank ... ok ... a bit of tech like
                 nvidia, utstarcomm and gric.  basic idea of last october
                 is find boring safe stocks that has good value and no
                 downside as alternative to hopelessly low rates of money
                 market.  I look for small, midcap, low pe, low ps, some growth
                 for decent peg, little or no debt, no big worries like
                 headache walmart giving to supermarket stocks, price at
                 least 25% lower than yahoo minimum 1-year target ... get
                 some ideas from smartmoney magazine.  now is a little harder
                 cause things are more expensive but I think there are still
                 some good stuff out here.  among the stuff above, still like
                 and hold hele, rino, ntbk, tkci, fosl and utsi (I like utsi,
                 started by berkeley alumni, for the long term.  it's a
                 telecom stock doing well in the worst telecom slump ever).
                 \_ there's no such thing as a 'no downside' stock.  the
                    stock market always has risks.  maybe martha's company
                    was looking real good for a while, eh?
                        \_ you're an idiot.
                           \_ thanks for adding nothing to this thread.
                \_ My portfolio is up 50% over the last 6 months.  Of course
                        it's 100% SUNW, so it's also down 80% from a couple
                        of years ago.  It's all just numbers you can spin any
                        way you want.
                        \_ Down 80% means you lack discipline in your
                           investing.  You won't ever see warren buffett
                           down 80%.
2003/6/6-8 [Consumer/CellPhone, Finance/Investment] UID:28658 Activity:moderate
6/6     You can keep your cell phone number if you switch carriers:  (
        \_ Well, in November.
        \_ This is the kind of crap you get when you let the government
           meddle in the free market.
           \_ There's an e-gap between the rich and poor.  We need taxes on
              hardware and software to fund a technofare program to train the
              poor on these technologies so they won't be left behind.  Free
              cell phones and air time for the poor!  Down with your VRWC to
              oppress the poor by keeping cell phones from them!
              \_ What does that have to do with cell phone number portability?
2003/5/30 [Academia/GradSchool, Finance/Investment] UID:28586 Activity:high
5/31    If you want to know how much your degree is worth, go the library
        and read: "Estimating the Payoff to Attending a More Selective College:
        An Application of Selection on Observables and Unobservables,"
        Quarterly Journal of Economics, vol. 117, No. 4, November 2002.
        \_ So now that you're all at Cal are you really going to read some
           book and switch schools based on what it says??  A bit late, maybe?
                \_ First, smarty pants, it's an article - not a book. Second,
                   there are many reasons to attend a selective school, not
                   just income. I think there a lot of great things about
                   Cal that go beyond your future salary. And yes, if you
                   want, you can change schools. It is not too late. Haven't
                   you ever heard of a transfer?
2003/5/30 [Finance/Investment] UID:28582 Activity:very high
5/29    From todays Wall Street Journal:
        In short, the U.S. is experiencing the most protracted job-market
        downturn since the Great Depression. It has left behind a remarkably
        broad swath of workers -- from young to old, and from high-school
        to the highly educated -- even as the economy has started growing again.
        \_ The economy is just more efficient.  It doesn't need all those
           workers.  You want to establish a union for loom workers or what?
           \_ I don't know where you learn your economics... are you saying
              that Saudi Arabia, which has unemployment rate of mid teens (and
              remember, women can't work there, thus, excluded from
              unemployment figures) has a much more "efficient" economy?
              \_ That's an incredible lame example.  Saudi Arabia doesn't have
                 a real/modern economy.  They're a one product exporter.  When
                 the oil runs dry or the world switches to another energy
                 source, they'll have 100% unemployment.  Care to try again?
                 \_ they don't have "REAL" economy? who has "real" economy?
                    then?  Germany's unemployement is also running at low
                    teens (~12%), so they are twice as efficient as ours?
                    \_ an economy with more than a single export and some sort
                       of real industry.  Yes, Germany.  No, Saudi Arabia.  The
                       Saudis don't even run their own oil industry.
                    \_ The German economy is tanking because they're a bunch
                       of socialist ninnies and also because the rest of the
                       world (their trading partners) are also hurting.  If
                       they weren't socialist ninnies they'd be doing better
                       but still not great.  No country is doing great now.
2003/5/28 [Reference/BayArea, Finance/Investment] UID:28566 Activity:very high
5/27    i need a job!  if anyone knows of any sort of clerical/administrative
        (or really anything else non-programmer, non-sysadmin, non-sales/mktg)
        jobs in the east bay or sf, please let me know...       -lila
        \_ There's an opening at the local Wendy's, want me to inquire?
        \_ Why are you asking for a nontechnical job on Soda? Do we look
          like a bunch of nontechnical people? When did Soda become
           \_ technical people work at companies that also employ other people
              \_ Yeah, riight, when was the last time you went over to the
                 secretary pool and asked them how they were doing in terms
                 of staffing? Geeks hang out with geeks, sales with sales, etc.
                 That's why there are depts.
                 \_ depends on size of company ... when I was at a small
                    company, I mixed with and dated hot sales and
                    accounting girls.  now i am at 100k company, and
                    things are bad.
                    \_ Sales&mktg... aaah... how I miss those days....
        \_ Are you deliberately trying to under-employ yourself?  A BA
           degress from berkeley doing clerical work?
           \_ my degree doesn't actually qualify me for anything...  i don't
              know what i really want to do yet, but i do need an income.
              \_ Perhaps you missed the point of your Berkeley degree.  Very
                 few Cal degrees qualify the student for any particular
                 trade.  This isn't a trade school.  You've (hopefully) been
                 taught to think and how to learn so you can do almost anything
                 that comes your way.  Meta skills are superior to specific
                 trade skills over the course of your life.  Now stop pissing
                 away your Cal degree on shitty retail and clerical work and
                 diminishing the value of everyone else's degrees.  Go figure
                 it out and get a real job.
           \_ sometimes, a job is just a job.
           \_ need I mention the Physics PHD's formerly from JDSU that I work
              with in airport security? -ERic
                \_ you work in airport security?
                  \_ unfortunately, yes.
2003/5/13-14 [Computer/Domains, Finance/Investment] UID:28420 Activity:kinda low
5/12    Does Speakeasy allow to change the reverse DNS resolution for home
        DSL accounts? If not, is there some other affordable ISP that lets
        you change the reverse DNS resolution?
        \_ Curious.  What do you need reverse lookup for?  I've yet to work
           at a company that's done anything with it.
           \_ The PARANOID setting in tcpwrappers denies connections from
              IPs whose forward and reverse lookups don't match.
              \_ then there'll be a huge chunk of the net unable to connect.
                 "paranoia" is not considered a positive trait.  it's a mental
                 \_ lotsa companies have mail servers setup this way already
                    where if you dont have reverse or your reverse doesnt
                    match the domain they reject.
           \_ Beacause it's cool.
2003/5/2 [Finance/Investment] UID:28296 Activity:high
5/1     for the curious, "sic" means "thus" in latin.
        \_ And is used to mark text when you mean "This is wrong, but I'm
           leaving as it was in the original."  [text like this] is altered or
           inserted to change verb tense or replace pronouns with the
           antecedent so you can read a short quote with context.
           \_ poor dans
           \_ Dans isn't poor.  He is an idiot.  It's always healthy to point
              their nature out to idiots.  They may eventually change.
2003/4/8-9 [Finance/Investment] UID:28031 Activity:high
4/7     What's a good pointer to sell your time-share? ok thx
        \_ There are time-shares that aren't scams?  First I've heard of it.
           As far as i can tell time shares are always sold at the same kinds
           of seminars where "breakthrough marketing opportunities on the
           internet" are sold.
           \_ There was an article in Smartmoney Magazine (WSJ affliated)
              that tried to make a case that time shares do not totally
              deserve all the bad publicity.  It did mention that it is
              best to buy it second hand rather than directly from one of
              those slippery snake oil salesperson.
              \_ No one buys a timeshare as an investment.
           \_ I would have thought the same, but I know a couple people who
              claim to love having their timeshare. They swap with other
              timeshares in various places. I suppose this is cheaper than
              just booking hotels or whatever in these places.
              \_ Trading credits for other destinations has a fee attached
                 as high as $500/week, or as much as I spend in many places.
                 TSs work if you like a place a lot, and keeping coming
                 back.  I prefer to change it up myself.
              \_ are they really timeshares, or did they just go in
                 with a bunch of friends or aquaintances to buy a
                 shared vacation home?  I've known several people who've
                 been happy with the later, but only suckers who've fallen
                 for the former.
        \_ There is always eBay. If the site is fairly desirable, you can
           also try the rental method. I hear okay things about that.
        \_ Timeshares are like the market in the late 90's.  It's a game of
           selling to the greater fool, except in timeshares, most people are
           smart enough to not buy one in the first place so everyone except
           the original builder loses money.  A good pointer?  Get good fire
           insurance and burn the fucker.
2003/3/3 [Finance/Banking, Politics/Domestic, Finance/Investment] UID:27585 Activity:kinda low
3/2     Anybody here buy/sell US treasury bills, notes, etc?  I'm wondering
        whether I should buy the auctions from etrade or directly through
        the US treasury.  Treasury direct has a website and online management.
        Any positive/negative experiences with either etrade or treasury
        direct?  Thanks.
        \_ What's the advantage of buying treasury bills as opposed to just
           savings bonds?
           \_ Treasury bills are federal saving bonds, actually. The advantage
              is that T-bills have a much larger market (international,
              especially places like Japan, Taiwan, China, Hong Kong).  So the
              prices are almost impossible to manipulate.  Thus you don't have
              to pay state tax.
          \_ the biggest difference between bills, notes, and bonds vs
             savings bonds is that it's marketable.  You can easily buy/sell
             them before maturity in an open market.  Can't do that with
             savings bonds.
2003/2/20-21 [Finance/Investment] UID:27471 Activity:high
12/20   Anyone on this board working at
        \_ This _board_?
        \_ prophetFinance looks pretty lame, from the website.  Are you
           trying to get a job there?
2003/1/20-21 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:27157 Activity:high
1/20    I've seen on a PBS program (forgot which) which talks about the
        netherlands being a "post-consumerism" society.  Are there other
        examples of such countries?  New Zealand?  Thanks.
        \_ i don't think whole nations are "post-consumer" but there are
           sub-groups in some of them.
        \_ What exactly does "post consumerism" mean?  They don't eat or have
           any needs any more?  Have they invented the star trek food maker
           thingy and didn't tell the rest of us?  What?
           \_ It means living to satisfy our needs, and not our wants.
              You don't NEED a SUV, DVD player, Sony playstation, or a new
              computer every 18 months.  So why do you buy it?  Deriving
              satisfaction in life based how much crap you can buy with money
              is meaningless and not sustainable.  In one word:  Simplicity.
              \_ So you mean to tell us that people in the netherlands are at
                 one with the land and don't own stuff?  Okey dokey.  Whatever.
                 As someone who owns almost no consumer junk myself, I think
                 you're a wack.  There's nothing wrong with all those things if
                 you can afford it.  Let's just shut down the whole fucking
                 economy and eat only after a creature or plant has died a
                 simple natural death.  While we're at it let's have 80%
                 unemployment when there's nothing for most to do and no
                 incentive for the other 20%.  This sounds just great!  Where's
                 Walden Pond when you need it?
                 \_ You need a cactus up your ass.
              \_ Sounds like a communist society.
                 \_ actually, sounds more like poor.  but that's not so
                    different from communism, i guess.
2002/12/11-12 [Finance/Investment] UID:26785 Activity:high
12/10   How come mortgage interest rates didn't drop sharply during the past
        month given that the 0.5% Fed intereste rate drop on 11/6 was a
        surprise one rather than an anticipated one?
        \_ Long-term (expected) budget deficits keep bond prices low.
           Interest rates move in the opposite direction of bond prices.
           \_ to add to this, mortgage rates do indeed follow the yield on
              the 30 year treasury.  Like the stock market, expectation
              moves the rate rather than the actual news.  That's why you
              see the market go up in anticipation of a news and actually
              drop after the news is confirmed.  Mortage rates are the same
              deal.  The threat of Iraq and imminent war will drive the
              mortgage rate down.  When when the bombs actually start
              dropping and we're kicking ass, you'll see it come back up
              \_ 5.825%/15 year baby!  Love this economy!
                 \_ I just refi'ed last week and got 5.375%/15 conforming.
                    \_ Let the mortgage dick waving commence!
        \_ It's not worth it for the companies to drop their rates. They've
           got enough business via refi's and new home buyers, dropping their
           rate overloads their business for low profit.
        \_ Home mortgages have to compete for cash, just like everything
           else. The other big competitor for the low-risk, long-term
           yield is 30 treasury bonds, so mortgages can't move too far
           from them. But there are other bonds, like AAA rated corporates,
           that are similar. So just the fact that the Fed is lending money
           at a lower rate to banks, doesn't neccessarily lower rates to
           to the consumer. Above posters said this, but in a less clear
           fashion, imo.
           \_ So, since the Fed lowering the rate doesn't mean consumer can get
              lower rates, how is the Fed lowering the rate going to stimulate
              the economy?  It still costs investors the same to borrow money
              to invest, so they won't be any more willing than before to
              invest and create jobs.
              \_ same way as tax cuts for the rich: trickle down economics!
                 \_ I knew we were getting trickled on!
2002/9/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:26030 Activity:moderate
9/27    dow suffers biggest drop ever!
        \_ Which, precisely, is the brand of crack you're smoking?
           \_ this person probably wants to get a high from you responding
              to him (or her).
                \_ it's cmlee.
2002/9/23-24 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:25978 Activity:low
9/23    Can someone explain this?  GMGC filed for Chapter 7 last Wednesday, yet
        its stock is still being traded and it even went up 67% today.
        \_ The bankruptcy filing means that the assets are going to be
           liquidated soon, instead of sitting around indefinitely.  The
           stock probably went up in anticipation of possible recoveries
           from the asset liquidation proceeds.  "67%" is a little
           misleading -- it went from 3 cents to 5 cents.
           \_ But the mere fact that it went up at all puzzled me.
              \_ 2cents.  background noise.
2002/9/19 [Finance/Investment] UID:25937 Activity:insanely high
9/18    Why don't we ever talk about a regime change in USSR back in the
        80s or a regime change in China/Paki/India? Do we talk about regime
                                             \- why would the us have been
                                             interested in a regime change
                                             in India? A better example is
                                             why was the "if you are not with
                                             us you are against us" thinking
                                             applied to say FRANCE when they
                                             refused to allow the USA planes
                                             to fly over french airspace on
                                             the way to bombing Libya.
                                             ok merci. --psb
                                                \_ French Embassy in Tripoli.
                                                   Multimillion dollar super
                                                   hi-tech laser guided smart
                                                   bombs.  "Accidental" bomb
                                                   hits.  -John
                                                   \_ Known as "whoops, sorry!"
        change only when we are able to kick the shit out of them militarily?
        \_ We tried.  We actually tried to stop the
           communist revolution in USSR in the 1920's.  We tried to stop
           the communist in China in the 1940's.  We tried to stop the
           communist in Vietnam in the 1970's.  We did managed to change
           regime in Iran, Guatamola, Zaire, and Afghanstan.  Unfortunately,
           all the regime we installed were extremely brutal in terms of
           human right abuses (Iran's Sha, Zaire's Sese Seko).  Communist
           of course, is absolute evil which we had to crush, even if that
                   this pithy statement.Please enlighten us about
           means the alternative are European Imperial Colonist or Islam
                   \_ He read it in the Daily Cal.
           \_ Just lesser evils.  One old and dying, the other new and soon to
              be crushed.
        \_ That's obvious. Why would you ever say something about someone
           who could kick your ass?
           \_ Wow, how clueless and naive.  Welcome to the motd!
        \_ AFAIK we did talk about regime change in the 80's with the
           Soviet Union.  It was this little thing called the 'Cold War'.
           \_ There weren't any talks about regime changes through a
              preemptive action.
                \_ LOL, you win the most uninformed comment of the week
                   award.  On what historical basis do you make
                   this pithy statement.  Please enlighten us about
                   Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Isreal, Angola, Mozambique, Chile
                   Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Poland, Germany...  Thanks.
2002/9/13-14 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:25879 Activity:nil
        sobering thoughts.  prepare thyself accordingly.
        \_ They don't go nearly far enough into the alarming consequences
           of deflation.  Basically deflation kills most demand.  Everyone
           wants to hold onto his cash so he can get what he wants for less.
2002/9/3-4 [Finance/Investment] UID:25759 Activity:high
9/2     it's the end of capitalism as we know it.  who wants to come alone
        for some beers?
        \_ Freudian slip? Take your meds bud.
        \_ I already came
        \_ Freud aside, wtf are you babbling about?
                \_ stock market tanked again?
                   \_ Oh.  Well, that's hardly the end of capitalism.  Quite
                      the opposite.  Captiolism isn't about every two bit shit
                      eating poorly managed company making big bucks.  It's
                      about the fit thriving and the weak dying.  You're now
                      seeing the results of years, maybe decades of bad
                      management wracking the economy.  Good companies will
                      survive and thrive.  Bad ones will die.  This is a good
                      thing.  The value of the DOW on any random day has about
                      as much to do with the economy as that day's level of
                      cheese production on the moon.
                      \_ yeah, i wish it worked that way, too.  "bad ones
                         will die?"  right.  take a look at the airline
                         industry.  they'll just go crying to the government
                         for another bailout while providing the same
                         shity service forever.  if the government showed
                         more respect for the free market, perhaps the shit
                         companies would die, but most of them are part
                         of some kind of government sponsored protection
                         racket or another. in another year or towo the moron
                         investors who set prices will decide to be optomists
                         instead of pesimists and overvalue the shit
                         companies they're undervalueing now.
2002/8/17 [Finance/Investment] UID:25593 Activity:high
8/16    My previous company's stock just got delisted from Nasdaq and
        I still have tons of shares.   It's now trading on OTCBB.  Just
        when can I claim worthless stock on my tax return...
        \_ If they're still trading, they're not worthless. But you treat the
           capital loss the same whether you claim them as worthless or sell
           on the BB at a huge loss. Sell them if you're fed up, and learn
           about capital loss carryovers. I got six figures worth.
           \_ holy cow... guess i'm not the only one on soda who's lost
              that much...
2002/8/1-2 [Finance/Investment] UID:25469 Activity:kinda low
8/1     If persons A and B, customers at two different brokerage firms, try to
        sell 100 shares of a certain stock at an asking price P, then later
        someone at a third brokerage firm tries to buy 100 shares at a bidding
        price P, who gets priority to sell first?  Thanks.
        \_ Not meaningful.  Odds are the buyer is the brokerage firm anyway.
           \_ So when you look at stock quotes on Yahoo or ETrade web sites,
              are the bid and ask prices the ones by the brokers or the ones by
              the actual clients?
2002/7/18-19 [Finance/Investment] UID:25383 Activity:high 50%like:23624
7/19    Whats the difference between APY and interest rate?
        \_ APY is annual percentage yield.  It's the total amount of money you
           gain if you get paid interest, and then get paid interest on the
           interest, and so on and so forth, for 1 year.
           \_ yes.  remember, the daily interest rate will compound to
              equate to the APY (Annual Percentage Yield).  The APY
              involves a compounding interest rate.
              \_ Hmm, the difference seems pretty small.  Say the rate is 10%.
                 When compounded daily, the APY is just (1 + 10% / 365) ^ 365
                 - 1 = 10.52%, which is not much bigger than 10%.
                 \_ Which is still a difference....
                    \_ Heh heh, in fact the APY for compounding 10% interest
                       in infinitely small intervals is e ^ 10% - 1 = 10.5171%.
                       For daily, it's 10.5156%.  -- math-major-wannabe CS alum
                \_ half a percent is a huge difference.  I'd kill to drop my
                   mortgage half a percent or raise my savings rate (or any
                   other income rate) by the same.
2002/7/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Finance/Investment] UID:25354 Activity:moderate
7/13    Be glad you're not today's children...
        \_ guys like this exist at all points on the political spectrum:
           they spout off about how bad everything is while doing nothing
           to help and posing no possible solutions.  this country has
           many dire problems, but it has *no* problems that will
           every be solved by blowhard pundits(except for providing income
           for said pundits.)
        \_ it should have been Mao saying we'd sell them the rope to hang us
2002/6/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:25238 Activity:nil
6/27    The 1920s is refered to the Roaring Twenties... flappers, broadway,
        etc and people seemed to have a good time. Why did the stock market
        crash in 1929?
        \_ Yermom's prices changed drastically.
        \_ Greenspan didn't lower interest rates fast enough.
        \_ Too much bought on margin.  Lots and lots of people were 90%+ on
           margin.  As soon as anything started dropping and margin calls
           came in, those people had to sell other stocks which further pushed
           all stocks down which caused other people to get margin calls, etc
           spiraling down into doom.  To keep that from happening again there's
           now a limit (which I don't recall, 20%?) on how much you can have
           on margin.  Sometimes Yermom is not the right answer, even on the
2002/6/18 [Finance/Investment] UID:25137 Activity:very high
6/17    Anyone have any opinions about E-trade bank?  They have the highest
        dividends of any bank.
        \_ didnt learn enough after the dotcom thing?
           \_ what are you talking about?
                \_ guess not....
        \_ rate is good, but service is not so good.  I have requested
           a check book from them since last year, and they have only
           sent sheets of check.  They had pretty good CD rates before too.
           \_ For CDs, check out  It's a bay area credit union.
              Their CD rates are higher than etrade across the board.  Their
              checking account rate isn't as good as etrade, but their
              savings rate is tiered, so you'd get higher than etrade if you
              have more than 20k in savings.  In May, they were doing a
              special MM rate of 4.25% until end of the year.  I got in on it,
              but they don't allow any more new accounts or deposits at that
              rate anymore.  Many will qualify just by living/working in
              Oak/SF.  Thanks for bringing up etrade, though.  I may switch
              my checking account...
              \_ Replying to my own post: Looks like etrade requires min of
                 5k for interest on checking.  Looks like patelco is still
                 the right place for my checking.
2002/6/14 [Transportation/Car, Finance/Investment] UID:25097 Activity:nil
6/14    If one buys a car with financing (say 5 years and some interest
        rate) how does one sell the car before the 5 years is up?  Is there
        a way?
        \_ No.  you're utterly fucked.
2002/5/14-15 [Finance/Investment] UID:24826 Activity:high
5/14    What's a war bond, how does it work, and how come there is no more?
        \_ it was a treasury(?) bond sold during wartime.  i'm sure you can
           find old terms on google.  it is no more because there is no war.
           there is only unilateral executive action.
        \_ On a related note, you can buy I and EE bonds online using your
           cash rebate credit cards.
           \_ Don't think so. If they are, it might be considered a "cash
              advance." You'll get dinged for that.
              \_ FAQ for I bond says this is not the case. In fact,
                 unless you want to go purchase the bonds at auction,
                 or pay a broker a commission, you must purchase with
                 a credit card.I have done this and not had a problem.
                 -- jules
2002/5/6 [Politics, Finance/Investment] UID:24720 Activity:moderate
5/6     There will be change because all the military have are guns
        \_ don't you mean "our" ? And no they don't. At least not my arsenal.
        \_ ruling junta vs. nobel laureate
        \_ Perhaps you could be more specific?  Which military?  What change?
           Are you 420 friendly?  Wanna chill with me at 111 Mina?  Don't you
           think the bartender is cute?
2002/4/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:24498 Activity:nil
        The dangers of entering a Subway(c) bathroom....
2002/4/17-18 [Finance/Investment] UID:24462 Activity:high
4/16    Did that biweekly trader's cheap broker question have any useful
        answers?  I gotta switch out of TD Waterhouse before they start
        charging me for not bending over often enough.
        \_ I think the clear consensus was to use fortnightly instead
           of biweekly. It sounds more sophisticated, anyhow.
           \_ There's a clear difference between sounding sophisticated and
              sounding like you just got yourself a word-a-day toilet paper.
        \_ FYI, E*TRADE now charges $15 per quarter for not enough trading.
                \_ It's $25 and only if you have less that $5k in account.
           \_ That's why I'm trying to get away from TDWaterhouse.  They're
              doing the similar thing, except they charge more.  Anyone know
              if Datek does that?
              \_ Yes, it does.  It might have started it all.
                 \_ Damn, and Thanks.  So anyone know of a cheap place that
                    doesn't charge you for not trading enough?  I only buy
                    once a month or so.
        \_ as long as you maintain $10K asset, TD Waterhouse won't charge
           \_ Okay, can you spare me $8K?  I'm only starting out.
2002/4/15-16 [Finance/Investment] UID:24445 Activity:moderate
4/14    What's a good service for occassional stock trading.  (say bi-weekly)
        \_ Do you mean twice per week, or once every two weeks?
           \_ /csua/bin/webster says the latter.
               \_ It seems to say both.
               soda [~] % webster biweekly
               Main Entry: 1bi·week·ly
               Pronunciation: (")bI-'wE-klE
               Function: adjective
               Date: 1832
               1 : occurring twice a week
               2 : occurring every two weeks : FORTNIGHTLY
               \_ Use dict.  webster blows.  biweekly means "Every two weeks",
                  and given the original poster's query of "occasional trading"
                  I'd guess this is what she meant.
               \_ i love motd responses like this: lengthy, detailed, accurate,
               \_ OTOH,
                  % webster bi-weekly
                  No matches for "bi-weekly" at
                  Hypertext Webster Gateway: "bi-weekly"
                  From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
                  Biweekly \Bi"week`ly\, a. [Pref. bi- + weekly.] Occurring or
                  appearing once every two weeks; fortnightly. -- n. A
                  publication issued every two weeks. -- {Bi"week"ly}, adv.
                  From WordNet (r) 1.6 (wn)
                  biweekly adj : occurring every two weeks [syn: {fortnightly}]
                  adv : every two weeks; "he visited his cousins fortnightly"
                  [syn: {fortnightly}]
                  \_ Not to mention contentious
                  \_ The general rule appears to be "bi-X" means every 2 X, and
                  "semi-X" means twice every X.
2002/3/23 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:24204 Activity:nil
3/22    I got this advice from a friend - is he on crack?  I always thought
        roth iras were Always A Good Thing To Do (tm):
        \_ My understanding is that the gains on Roth IRA is all yours
           while those on the Traditional IRA will be taxed.  Is that true?
           Of course for traditional, you start up with a higher base,
           since you will have the additional money you would have paid
           out as taxes if you go the Roth route.  This "additional" money
           would unfortunately be outside of any IRAs.  Of course you can
           put them in your 401k unless you maxed that one out also.
           In short, if you maxed out everything, Roth essentially let
           you tax shelter a little more money since $3000 in Roth is
           worth more than $3000 in Traditional.
           \_ Isn't there a limit on how much you can be making and still put
              $3000 in a ROTH?
        \_ WSJ's Smartmoney magazine advice on where to put your money for
           most people:
                1. Max out 401k portion with company match.
                2. Max out Roth IRA.
                3. Max out unmatched portion of 401k
                4. Other stuff.
2002/3/23-24 [Finance/Investment] UID:24203 Activity:moderate
3/22    Any advice on where to open a Roth IRA? Does it matter whether I
        do it through my bank, broker, 401(k) provider, etrade, etc.?
        \_ i was told Vanguard is the standard.  - pst
        \_ We use TD Waterhouse. No fees!
        \_ any bank or brokerage will do this for you.  for a no-brainer
                investment, indexed equity funds are always good.
           \_ Which makes Vanguard's Index 500 the standard. -not guy above
2002/3/21-22 [Finance/Investment] UID:24181 Activity:very high
        Globalization Proves Disappointing
        "The trend of globalization is that surplus capital is moving
        from the periphery countries to the center, which is the
        United States," said George Soros, the financier and philanthropist
        who has become a leading critic of globalization.
        \_ I don't find this at all disappointing.  --American
        \_ Guess what, globalization was not a new thing.  First wave of
           globalization happened 200 years ago.  The nations which benefited
           from the globalizations today happend to be nations benefited from
           globalization 200 years ago.  Was that a pure coincidence? or there
           is a correlation which we don't want to admit? Mind you that
           even Opium War was declared in name of free trade and remove
           "illegal trade barrier" set up by then Chinese government.  What
           make *YOU* think globalization in the 21th century is being
           pushed with heavenly intention this time around?
           \_ Perhaps you should consider E190.
        \_ OK. I know this a blatant troll, but do you know who Soros is and
           how he made, and continues to make, his fortune? Soros the global
           social reformer is just about the most blatant hypocrisy you could
           find. (Though the Bushies admonishing other countries on election
           fraud comes close). Some argue (though I'm not one of them) that
           Indonesia has a great deal of its woes from a couple of years ago
           to blame on Soros' currency speculation.
           \_ Wow talk about trolling.  Bush = election fraud?  Not even your
              beloved leftist media could make that claim after the zillionth
              time they counted everything.  Let it go, move on, try prozac.
                    kept selling Thai baht to the Thai government until
           \_ That just makes Soros someone who truly understands the dangers
              of globalization.  Given the pathetic financial conditions of
              the banana republics of SE Asia, if Soros didn't do it, someone
              else would.  Any evidence of the "continues to make" part?
              \_ Some articles in the Nation and such no more recent than 1999
                 so you have me on the present day. Does it really matter
                 \_ I am not as ready to judge Soros as a buy guy.  It's
                    arguable that what he did was no worse than say shorting
                    keep selling Thai baht to the Thai government until
                    a stock.  He is just the guy who gave the final kick
                    to a rotten house.  The main thing that he did was to
                    figure out that Thailand's currency peg to the dollar
                    would not hold since the Thai baht should not be as
                    valuable as the official rate, so essentially he just
                    kept selling Thai baht to the Thai government until
                    the Thai government depleted its US dollar reserve.
                    \_ Yeah, except he shorted a whole country.
                    \- in related news [see tobin's tax] james tobin is
                       recently dead. --psb
                       \_ Thanks!  I didn't know about tobin and his
                          tax before.  Sounds like a good idea.
                    \_ Once that happened there was a fast and furious
                       devaluation of the baht, but Thailand's
                       companies' debt were all in dollars.  How did
                       Soros profit from it?  He borrowed Thai baht
                       to sell to Thai government in exchange for
                       dollars.  While the Thai government was still
                       able to defend its dollar peg, Soros is paying
                       the spread and losing money, but once the
                       Thai government ran out of dollars, and the
                       baht quickly devalued, Soros used a small
                       portion of the dollars he just got from the
                       Thai government to repay all his baht debt
                       on the cheap.  The remaining dollars were
                       his handsome profits - lovely!  Did he bother
                       to say "Thank you!" to the wonderful people of
                       Thailand?  It's not that much anyway, just a
                       few billion dollars.  I am sure the Thai girls
                       in Chiang Mai and Pattaya can earn it all back
                       in a few years.  Sorry if this sounds harsh but
                       that's globalization for you.
                       \_ I love the 15 yr old Thai girls.- keithyw
2002/3/5 [Finance/Investment] UID:24024 Activity:very high
3/4     the economy is on its way to a robust recovery!  hail bush!!
        \_ the economy is recovering.  as much as I despise the previous
           president, he did nothing to kill the economy, he did nothing to
           make it great, he did nothing either way.  neither did bush.  the
           feds don't fully understand how the economy even works and the
           president, whomever it might be at any moment, has near zero
           influence on it in the short term.
           \_ Bush's effect on the economy was to make a strong stand against
              terrorism and have success in the military operations, which
              improved consumer confidence.
              \_ Consumers were already spending like mad even through the
                 worst of it.  --voted for Bush but won't make up stuff
           \_ so who has the most effect on the economy? -clueless
                \_ yer mom.  the market crash was caused when she raised her
                \_ greed, when enuf fools will keep the rally going more fools
                   will jump in, if enuf fools want to crash the market to
                   lower stock prices, more fools will short to crash the
              \_ Alan Greenspan probably has the most influence (in terms
                 of individuals). Other than Greenspan, its probably the
                 big banks/investment firms (JP Morgan, Chase, Citicorp,
                 Morgan Stanley, etc.)
                 \_ Unfortunately, Greenspan loses out to world events,
                    wars, political strife, terrorists, and act of God.
                    \_ Can anyone help me with my enron stock? --God
                       \_ I don't think so.  Swap your enron for my wbvn?
                          \_ Or Be.
              \_ The nerds did.  They created the tech boom, and also the
                 internet boom and bust.
                 \_ i met a guy on greenspan's staff. trust me: those
                    guys are nerds too.
                 \_ nerds didn't make the boom and bust.  Stanfurd farmers
                    did.  I met exactly one other Cal person working for
                    tech companies in the last 7 years.  I suspect everyone
                    from Cal (except me) is either going on to post-BA/BS
                    or is now farming pot in bulk somewhere in the outback.
                    \_ 7 years and only one other Cal grad?  Where have
                       you been working?  I've worked 7 yrs and I've
                       worked with 6 Cal grads.
                    \_ I graduated in 97 and I've worked with dozens of cal
                       grads at cisco and sun.
2002/2/17 [Finance/Investment] UID:23895 Activity:low
2/16    Is it a wash sale to exchange one large cap mutual fund to another?
        Or a small cap mutual fund to another?  (switch right away)
        \_ No.  It's a common technique when you've got a fund that's down
           to take the paper loss for tax purposes, while still maintaining
           your portfolio's diversification strategy.  Usually people do this
           at the end of the year, though.
           \_ thanks. will clean this up soon.
2002/1/31 [Finance/Investment] UID:23742 Activity:nil
1/31    WSJ Reporter Kidnapped:
        \_ This has been on CNN's front page for two days.
        \_ This is old news.
2002/1/24 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:23656 Activity:high
1/24    What's the typical annual return for bonds these days?  I just noticed
        that the annual return for my money market fund fell from 4.41% in
        last April to 1.57% in last December.  Thanks.
           \_ I can't find bonds on that site, only money markets, CDs,
              savings, etc.
        \_ No such thing as "typical" bond return.  There are so many
           different type of bonds.  You can check the Lehman Brothers
           Aggregate Bond's index for return on ALL bonds.
           \_ Also, bond funds go up and down like stocks right?
              \_ A bond fund isn't very much like a bond.
                 \_ Isn't it kind of cumbersome for individual investors
                    to buy bonds directly (except for those EE, I
                    government savings bonds?  When most people talk
                    about buying bonds, they are talking about bond
                    funds right?
        \_ bond.  james bond.
           \_ shaken, not stirred.
2002/1/18 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:23594 Activity:high
1/18    PPRO: it's a $1 stock with a 52 week high of 31.34 and a low of .37.
        The P/E is negative, EPS is negative.  Sorry but this dog don't run.
        \_ why do we care?
           \_ because someone is running a script every 20 seconds to get
              15 minute old data on this POS and it's your machine too.
        \_ At least it still hasn't gone belly up.
        \_ And this is different from every other stock because...?
2002/1/14-15 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:23560 Activity:very high
1/14  Is it too late to contribute to Roth IRA for 2001?  How much
      can one contribute for 2001?  2002?
      \_ No. $2000. $3000. !an accountant
      \_it's more complicated... CA Tax Franchise Board
        still goes by the old rules... so.. if you want
        to be safe, then it is $2000
      \_ The last day to contribute to a Roth IRA for 2001 is 4/15/2002.
             With the new tax law signed by President Bush on 6/7/01:
                year    max contribution (age < 50)     (age >= 50)
                2001                     $2000          $2000
                2002                     $3000          $3500
                2003                     $3000          $3500
                2004                     $3000          $3500
                2005                     $4000          $4500
                2006                     $4000          $5000
                2007                     $4000          $5000
                2008                     $5000          $6000
                2009+   Annually adjusted for inflation in increments
                        of $500.  Those who are 50 years old or older
                        can contribute $1000 more (called catch-up
                If one makes less than the max contribution amount, one can
                only contribute the compenstaion made during the year.
             Also, the phase out income for singles is still 95K-110K (AGI) and
                150-160K (couples).   - yakurar
                150-160K (couples).   - yakura
      \_ Thanks for all the answers!  You guys are great!  These 401k match,
         tax deferment, SPPs, Roth IRA are all great, but do any of you find
         it difficult to squeeze out so much money for retirement?  I mean,
         I still want to buy some toys.
         \_ Budget. Plus with 401k, the money never gets into your bank
            account to spend. Monthly auto-deductions work too.
         \_ I manage to max out my 401k even though I still have to send
            $1k/mo non-tax-deductible to my parents.  And I don't make top
                \_ Oh yeah?  How'd your 401k do in the last 18 months?
         \_ I do it by having roommates. You can save a lot on rent that way.
            And not driving a car. Add up how much a car costs you and
            you will see that taking a cab 10 times a month is cheaper.
            \_ Having an apartment mate is a good idea, except that my parents
               like to visit for around 3 months every summer, so I can only
               find short term apartment mates.
            \_ Biking is also cheaper than driving a car and having a gym
               membership.  (But keep a cheap one around for trips)
        \_ Stop buying meat for cooking at home.  You'll save a few hundred for
           the year and you can eat with impudence at a restaurant.  (Health
           and money-wise)
2002/1/9 [Finance/Investment] UID:23503 Activity:high
1/8     Can you change the angel of your ski boot mount? I'd like to vary
        the angle by a bit as my feet are not exactly parallel to the skiis.
        \_ i wanted to change the angel on mine, but i couldn't figure out
           how many angels they'd put in the binding to begin with.
           \_ you mean how many could dance on the binding...
                \_ Along which axis?
2001/12/5 [Finance/Investment] UID:23154 Activity:high
12/5    Dow above 10000 (at 10114), NASDAQ above 2000 (at 2046)!
        \_ shut the fuck up, cmlee
        \_ Uh huh, this means the economy is all better now, right?
           \_ "Better" yes, "all better" not yet.
2001/11/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:23130 Activity:nil
11/28   top dow 10,000, now!!1!
        \_ go away, cmlee
2001/11/1 [Finance/Investment] UID:22895 Activity:nil
11/1    machines that make useful change from loads of spare change.  where?
2001/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Finance/Investment] UID:22860 Activity:high
10/29   I have one elective next semester (my last at cal) and I'd like to
        take a class that will help with investment/money management in the
        future.  I have no background in business or economics though, so it
        can't be too advanced.  Any recommendations?
        \_ take an introductory accounting class
        \_ E120
        \_ Try E120. Its an easy A and teaches you the basics. The prof.
           who taught my class also covered stuff like options (iso vs.
           non-qual) and 401K.
        \_ Take Econ 1.  Accounting doesn't do jack for knowing what to invest
           in and is highly boring.  You're better off getting a good under-
           standing of how the economic world works rather than learn how to
           balance a corporate checkbook.
        \_ if you want to balance your checkbook, find a Cantonese wife.
           They are like accountants.
           \_ ditto for Indian wife. Every penny accounted for (even the
              one's she is not supposed to know you spent).
2001/10/25 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Finance/Investment] UID:22829 Activity:nil
10/25   How do I do anonymous NNTP posting via tin from csua? I can
        change my from email address, but tin still inserts a Sender line
        which includes my full email and name. Thx.
2001/9/24 [Finance/Investment, Finance/Banking] UID:22612 Activity:kinda low
9/24    as far as "financial institutions" rank, how does MBNA rate?
        anyone have any opinions of citicorp/b of a?  I'm looking to open a
        roth IRA and do some bonds investment.
        \ BofA ? you mean bunch of fucking assholes?
          \_ that's good.  i like that one.  Sorry, i've not heard that one
             before, but i guess it's really obvious at this point.
             They are dicks tho.  I unfortunately have an account with them
             can you suggest an alternative?  (altho i'd rather have the
             response to the original post).
             \_ I used to be a GW customer and got shafted after the WM
                merger. I switched to BofA and haven't had any problems
                yet. What sort of problems have you had with BofA?
             \_ I have both checking and MasterCard accounts with BofA for 12
                years.  Never had any problem.
2001/9/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:22554 Activity:insanely high
9/20    poll:  how much money have you lost in the stock market over the past
        year?  I'm asking cold hard cash that you lost, not paper gains on
        stock options that you never exercised.
        $0     - $10000: .....
        $10000 - $50000: ......
        $50000 - $100000:.
        $100,000+       : ..
        $200,000+       : .
        Paper gain losses here (i.e. "If I sold on X, I would have had $Y"):
        $0      - $10000:
        $10000  - $50000: ...
        $50000 - $100000:
        $100k-250k      :
        $250k-500k      : ..
        $500k-$1,000,000: .
        $1,000,000+     :
2001/9/17 [Finance/Investment] UID:36313 Activity:nil
9/17    What are some good stocks to buy during war time?
        \_ Defense, oil.
        \_ Defense, oil.  Maybe gold.
        \_ in REAL war time, energy will be regulated by government.
           Your best bet is the government T-bill.  (I assume you mean
           investment in the US).  For now, stock is not the place to
           be in.  Best shelter is the federal bonds or CDs.  You
           can always come back to the market.
        \_ Maybe Amtrack and Greyhound if you're talking about this particular
           war (although an Amtrack train collided a few days ago).
           war.  (Although an Amtrack train collided a few days ago.)
        \_ High tech: communications (optical, wireless).  Video Teleconferencing
           stocks are already going up.
           stocks are already going up.  Also UPS, FedEx, ...
        \_ Medical stocks.
        \_ You got it backwards. Think of stocks to short instead.
2001/9/10 [Finance/Investment] UID:22368 Activity:very high
9/10    panel of economist say recovery by year's end.. time to put money
        back into the  market.
        \_ sign your name, cmlee, so we know when the anti-analyst is speaking
        \_ And the economic growth is supposed to be fueled by.....
           stock trading?
           \_ no but if you are holding off investing because fear of recession,
              this should be good news
2001/8/31 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:22308 Activity:moderate
8/31    please buy some stock today.
        \_ Why?
          \_ because they are oversold - someone else
2001/8/29 [Finance/Investment] UID:22288 Activity:nil
8/29    dow below 10,000 by week end.
        \_ yay!  now what about the nasdaq?
           \_ It's already below 10,000
              \_ Oh no!
        \_ So short it. --dim
2001/8/15-16 [Finance/Investment] UID:22128 Activity:kinda low
8/15    Is the Dow or the S&P500 a better indication of the state of the stock
        market?  S&P500 has far more components than the Dow, but it seems like
        everybody is talking about the Dow instead.
        \_ the S&P is weighted for market cap, so it's not really more
           representative than the Dow
        \_ Use the Wilshire Index (one of them).  The Total Stock Market
           Index.  If its among S&P 500 and Dow, choose S&P instead.
2001/8/7 [Science/Physics, Finance/Investment] UID:22029 Activity:insanely high
8/6     Are there any bioE majors on soda?  My friend's advisor (Bryan Jones,
        for those of you who are familiar) told her she had to take 8 tech
        courses her sophomore year.  I'm of the opinion that this is only going
        to screw her and her gpa over.  Thoughts?
           \_ screw her?
              \_ [ the joke got old months ago. deleted ]
        \_ I have a degree in Biophysics and tried to take 7 tech courses my
           junior year (including OChem and QM at the same time). Yes, it
           screwed up my gpa and probably kept me out of med school. -ausman
        \_ I took Physics 137A, Physics 105, Physics 112, Math 104, Math
           110, Math 113, and Economics 101AB my junior year. I didn't do
           so hot. Then again, the alternative is to stay in school forever
           while you take the hard classes one at a time. If she doesn't
           take the 8 classes then what are her options? --dim
        \_ Yes, it's possible, and sometimes even the right thing to do. I've
           had semesters when I've taken 4 techs, and without regrets. In most
           cases, for most people, it's probably NOT the right thing to do,
           given risk to GPA/academic standing, stress level, lack of free
           time, etc. The best thing you can tell your friend is probably to
           get a second opinion of some other faculty in the department, and/or
           from other undergrads who have taken the particular techs she's
           being pushed into, and then think for herself. -alexf
        \_ Tech courses were fun while I was at Berkeley.  Four at a time
           is even better.  If she fears them, maybe it's not for her.
           For example, I feared four upper division CS courses.  That was
           not for me, but if she's got a knack --
           \_ Math power pack: 104, 113, 110, 128A.  Delicious, nutritious,
              and educationally stimulating.
           \_ in my experience, Bryan Jones is nearly always wrong.  She should
              plot out her academic future with help from sympathetic profs or
              better yet upperclassmen friends.  Best of luck and let us know
              if she actually ends up needing to take 8 tech courses.
        \_ At last something I really can help with. BioE is in the eng. science
           cluster of majors. They are very much catch as catch can for advisors
           and the advising I received was poor verging on criminal. I made
           numerous mistakes in class choices, some of which I am still dealing
           with as a result. By all means, get a second opinion. Unless your
           friend is a whiz kid who is comfortable with the load, find a way
           to balance out the 8 classes over time. It's better to just be in
           school longer. Really. It is. Feel free to email me if you want to
           talk about it more.
           -- ulysses (BioE for first year, then grad. in Env Eng Sci, 1995)
        \_ My brother is doing BioE and he seemed to be able to handle that
           load just fine while keeping his GPA above 3.
           When I was an undergrad I took 6 technicals 2nd year and 8 techs
           junior year and it wasn't too bad. I even graduated above 3.
           \_ I don't know what the case is outside of BioE and my own major, but
              we needed a 3.5 or better to be seriously considered for graduate
              school - and it is assumed you are going to grad school if you
              are in an eng. sci. major. Also, don't forget that for BioE two
              of those classes are the biochem sequence where you are head to
              head with bloodthirsty pre-meds, many of whom are taking only that
              one course or maybe one other. -- ulysses
        \_ Are all ucb students this wimpy now, or is it just the bioE majors?
           I was eecs, and I've never taken less than 15 units of technical
           classes a semester.
           \_ When I was a student, we walked uphill, both ways, in the rain.
              \_ Pansy.  We walked through blinding snow, and we didn't
                 have schools.  We had treebark!  We would sit down on
                 treebark and take notes on treebark, and we liked it!  We
                 loved it.
2001/8/6 [Finance/Investment] UID:22018 Activity:high 61%like:22017
8/6     "Defense contractor General Dynamics said on Monday it plans to
        Systems Group for $825 million to strengthen its position in
          Goes back to my statements about Dyncorp, EDS, IBM.... Dyncorp
        that tranaction seemed to get no press at all. Its like people
        these are the companies which are going to be able to correctly
        change and all the damn consultants need to change there pitch
        outsourcing bandwagon
          BTW notice keyword "communications"  this should read "network"
        \_ Is this Kinney?
           \_ lack of coherence: check
              lack of content:   check
              lack of use:       check
              Yeah, that's kinney.
2001/7/20 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:21889 Activity:nil
7/20    Recent headline O'Neill Predicts Strong U.S. Surpluses
          The article put such a good spin on the notion or paying down the
          Well there is a huge huge huge huge devastatingly huge potential
        problem which has been written about in the heavy econ papers
          Our entire economy is based what is called the "riskless asset."
        All prices of investments, be it stock, bonds, capital spending,
        buying houses etc. all rely on what is called the CAP-M ( capital
        asset pricing model ). This states basically that the more risk
        an asset has the high its expected rate of return must be. The
        expected return in the "interest rate." The problem arises in
        that the CAP-M ( my nomencalture - standard is CAPM no "dash")
        uses as a requirement in its calculation the rate of return of
        the riskless asset. The foundation which people previously used
        in this model was the 30yr US Bond.
          So where is problem? The government started buying back 30yr
        bonds thus reducing demand and causing a demand shock which
        altered the normal curve and skewing its price. Everyone realized
        this and quickly renormalized all asset prices to the 10yr bond
        as it was still in high supply. However as the govenment
        continues to run high surpluses the demand will continue to
        shrink for the 10yr and it will no longer be effective as a basis
        for the pricing assets.
          Repurcussions to this are obvious. Without a standard government
        based riskless asset pricing, financial institutions will no
        longer be able to commonly price assets. This will cause an
        increase in the volatility of equities.
          Solutions- Right now that is of a big debate in the economic
        field- right now the biggest option looks like fannie ma. Ya
        those are the guys who own all the home loans. That is turning
        into the biggest source of bonds and thus providing a basis for
        stable pricing- Whenever you have bigger supply- the stability of
        a price goes up. That is why when the government had 3Trillion in
        bonds out the prices were fairly stable. Only recently has
        volatility started to be seen. But the problem with using home
        loans is obvious as well- equity bubble.
          Net result. The Government is going to NEED to step up spending
        to maintain a budget deficit. Maybe not now but the seeds are
        being planted.  Look at the signs, Cal government going into debt
        over energy.  This is chump change but just a sign that
        governments are taking up the slack of the consumer.
          Required Actions: Align yourself with an industry which will
        benefit from governemt spending. Boeing, LM, EDS, Dyncorp, HAL.
          Look for massive US bases setup in foreign countries. Look for
        massive emigration to foreign bases. Look for a reimergance of
        colonialism. The plans are in the works - and coming this fall I
        am hoping I can get involved with them - as I am starting to
        believe this is coming sooner rather than later.
          Just commentary and by no means correct- and may not even reflect
        my true views
        \_ Hi kinney!
2001/7/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:21876 Activity:nil
6/18    Here are some FACTS about Level 3 and what a leverage buyout is
          Level 3 issued 12B in BONDS ( ie they sold 12B in BONDS and got
        12 B in CASH ). The bonds were issued at face value - ie a
        100,000 bond was priced at well 100,000. But now the bonds are
        trading at $45,000. Thus Level 3 can in effect BUY the bonds back
        and realize a profit OF OVER $6 BILLION.   But no one has the
        balls to do it. Level 3 has a market cap of about 2.3 B right
        now- yet anyone who would buy Level 3 would realize a profit of
        6B right away.. I can't believe this....  This is how Milkin made
        bank. You know his SALARY one year was 650M we are not talking
        options or stock or any of that crap we are talking cold hard
        cash salary. The reason is exactly this- He got commision for
        find takover candidates ripe for the picking where right after
        you buy them your firm gets like a 1B in profit. He takes his 10%
        cut right off the top and moves on----
          He is the only guy on earth who wrote a check to the SEC for 1B
          There are no gods.... and business schools have only been pushing
        out phonies.
          My bets on George Soros and JP Morgan. Soros is the only guy who
        can pull this shit off- and trust me he will do something - kinney
2001/7/11 [Transportation/Car, Finance/Investment] UID:21765 Activity:nil
7/10    Does anybody have anything to say about the new parking permit
        regulations (max 3 14-day permits, can't buy more than 1 at a
        time, etc.)?  Why was this change made?
        \_ it's part of the windows xp rollout
        \_ It's designed to screw students.  End of story.
        \_ according to the "Customer Care Servicers" it is there because
           of the balck market that was created with sales of said parking
           passes.  Clearly they didn't take any sort of economics.
2001/6/14-7/20 [Computer/SW/Database, Finance/Investment] UID:21513 Activity:nil
6/13    I am now assuming all you .commers/tech gods have more money than I-
        Thus I can finally be a financial consultant.
        1. ENRON they have gotten a lot of bad press recently and the
        stock is in the tank- but fundamentally they are still sound with
        a very good management group. They are right now basically
        pulling out of low margin old school projects to instead focus
        the entire company onto trading and management of utilities.....
        This is a wise business decision and will pay of sooner or later-
        2. GE 80% of their product is sold out for the next 5 years. nuf
        said Half their profit comes from GE Capital ( low interest rate
        helps them a lot ). Ie they already have huge lease agreements
        providing airplanes.  They just refinance their loan but the
        lease contract is already existing and has a lifetime of 10
        years.. a no brainer 10% easy
        3. Level 3/ MFN This is a competitive hedge position- long level3
        short mfn- given the recent tank of MFN this would not be a good
        entry point for this position but the position is still valid and
        good for at least 15% of you portfolio
        4. Sybase Oracle is fucking up big time- sybase has very strong
        financials and a depressed valuation- you could look at SEBL but
        they are way to overvalued. You could turn this position into a
        competive hedge against SEBL 15% easy maybe more
        5. Verizon I don't like what the FCC is doing to hamped Verizon
        but it doesn't change the fundamentals- they control the end user
        - nuf said 15%
        6. ATT I love the cable assets of att. They are pursuing a nice
        road to greatly reduce debt load and shoveling off useless
        assets.  15%
        7. CAT There is a current worldwide boom in heavy construction-
        CAT is the only supplier of major heavy equip. Add to this their
        generator business and they are golden 10%
        This would form a very nice portfolio assuming you have around
        40K to invest- it is really tough to build a real portfolio with
        less you can shovel off a few lines but make sure that each
        investment is at least 5K.
        \_ Please sign your name so we can have you arrested for giving
           financial advice without a license.
2001/6/8-9 [Finance/Investment] UID:21460 Activity:nil
6/8     NYSE trading stopped for one hour due to software glitch.  Who
        provided the software?
        \_ I did. -phil

322432.3 Hey nobody told me where i can get an mp3 if the kirk-spock
         ritual battle music!  What kind of geeks are you!?
         \_ Just buy a Star Trek soundtrack album...  What's the problem?
2001/5/5 [Science/GlobalWarming, Finance/Investment] UID:21172 Activity:nil
5/4 for the full text
        of the Kyoto protocol.  This is the full, real text.  As far as I can
        tell it matches various versions from other places around the net.
        \ who cares about enviromentalism? It's a joke. If you are TRUE
          enviromentalist, you'd bury yourself in the ground right this
          minute so the earth can recycle your body. Because more than likely
          you are going to have kids, they are going to have kids, and all
          your offspring are going to waste so much "precious resources"
          in their upbringing that all the protest, conservation, and etc.
          is not going to do squat. So PLEASE, get real, kill yourself now.
             \_ One word... vasectomy
          \_ so the idea is, consume and pollute now as much as possible?
             shouldn't we be dumping lots of mercury in the oceans then?
             based on your premise do you support zero population growth?
          \_ Nah, it's more effective and efficient eliminating pigs like
             you instead of environmental lovers like the above.
             \_ Who are you referring to as the "environmental lover"?
                \_ People who love the environment .. duh!
                   \_ There was a specific reference to "the above".  "duh!"
                      I wanted to know which of "the above" was being refered
                      to.   "duh!"
          \_ i would agree except that it's not about wasting resources,
             it's about protecting air and water quality which we depend
             on for our health right here and now, and also about protecting
             natural environments because they are valuable to the people
             for recreation, because we can learn things from them, and
             because they are basically irreplaceable. pollution harms
             these things at the expense of society and not at the short
             term expense of those who are polluting. this is why governments
             need to intervene. i don't believe in limiting resource
             consumption as a goal in itself.
             \_ Oh, so Mother Nature needs a favor! Well maybe she should
                have thought of that when she was besetting us with droughts
                and floods and poison monkeys! Nature started the fight for
                survival and now she wants to quit because she's losing?
                Well, I say 'Hard cheese!
                                         \_ You need to add a second quote,
                                            and a period.
                \_ Boohoo!  Mommy Nature spanked me again!
2001/4/24-25 [Finance/Investment] UID:21085 Activity:nil
4/24    nweaver-- does it bother you that EECS is predominantly Asian, and
        by chance they happen to enjoy watching the stock ticker?
2001/4/23-24 [Finance/Investment] UID:21067 Activity:nil
4/22    nweaver-- I'm sure you've seen a lot of undergrads in Soda looking
        at the stock ticker. Does that bother you?
                \_ And I should care WHY? -nweaver
        \_ C'mon, leave poor Nick alone.  Enough is enough.  There's only
           so much poking you can do and then it isn't funny anymore.
        \_ Yes, they should instead be using the computing facilities at Haas
           to do their Business Investment 101 homework.
        \_ What is Nick's response to people who say he should be the last
           person talking about who should/shouldn't be in industry because
           he himself has never left academia?
2001/4/23-24 [Computer/SW/Apps, Finance/Investment] UID:21062 Activity:moderate
4/22    I need something to keep track of my stock purchases, sales,
        gains, loss, splits, dividends, etc.  Should I just use Excel?
        \_ Quicken would probably be better than Excel.
           \_ not to mention quicker
           \_ Not to mention you can then transfer your data to TurboTax.
           \_ not to mention excel is a general use tool not designed for
        \_ On a related note, anyone know of a service where you can
           track foreign currenies and various other non-US financial
           instruments? My Yahoo! lets you get quoted prices for most
           of the ones I'm interested in but it doesn't do anything more.
           There are no histories, graphs, news items, etc...
                \_ You want to go into arbitrage like the guy in 9 & 1/2 weeks?
                   BTW, the original story didn't end with her 'empowerment'.
                   That was the Hollywood PC feel-good-about-being-a-woman-all
                   -men-suck version.
                   \_ forget arbitrage. Do Options now.
        \_ agreed.  Quicken is better.  But I believe if you want to
           customize your own analysis of your portfolio, Excel may be
           more flexible.
        \_ ObLinux: has anyone used GnuCash? 1.5 series looking good?
           \_ BOOT TO THE HEAD!!!
                \_ And he RIDES BIKE!
        \_ For those of you using Quicken for stocks, do you use
           their transaction download (from broker) feature.  I
           tried it with E*trade and it was full of mistakes.
                \_ You should be using Excel.
        \_ Is there somewhere where I can get a Excel worksheet
           already customized for stock tracking purposes?
2001/4/16-17 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:20998 Activity:insanely high
        Is this an accurate portrayal of how (incentive) stock options
        can get you screwed.  I.e.,
        (0) Your stock options are about to expire.
        (1) Your exercise price is 10 cents.
        (2) You exercise when the stock is worth $100 per share.
        (2a)You don't sell your stock, in hopes the price will shoot higher
            or you want to hold it a year for long-term cap gains
        (3) The stock falls to $1 per share.
        (4) Your tax liability is $99.90 * (# shares), regardless of
            the fact that the stock is now worth $1 per share.
        \_ The whole problem with this model is that it assumes that
           your failed to pay your taxes at the time of exercise. Now
           only a retard would do that. If you ask the broker to withhold
           40% for Fed, 10% for State and the min for ther other stuff,
           you will not get nailed on Apr 15.
           \_ Yeah right, take this advice from the motd.
           \_ I presume you "pay your taxes at the time of exercise" by
              selling enough shares at the time of exercise?
        \_ Why not sell your shares at the time you exercise your options?
           If you're not going to sell them then why exercise unless they
           are about to expire? You can always buy some back. --dim
           \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
           \_ Some people also want to utilize the lower federal tax rate of
              20% for long-term capital gain.
              \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
        \_ In what situation should the government EVER be able to tax a
           paper gain.  If I haven't made INCOME, how the HELL can this event
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?  --scotsman
           \_ Simple. The options themselves were income. The company gave them
              to you. The value of the options is the spread at the time of
              exercise; underwater options are worthless. When you exercise,
              you're getting stock worth a certain value for less than that
              value, that's income. if they drop to 1% of that value that's
              a capital loss. There's no magic here people. If you buy stock
              that drops 99% you're fucked, welcome to the real world.
           \_ Simple.  This is unconstitutional.
           \_ It's taxed as Alternative Minimal Tax, not as Income Tax.
           \_ Damn, you made a killing by buying a $100 share for 10 cents
              and you are so greedy you want it taxed as long-term capital
              gains. You deserve what you get. I suppose if it went up to
              to $200 during the next year, you'd want all $200 taxed as
              long-term too.
              \_ Er..  No..  I want it treated as you would treat any income.
                 Paper gains are not income.  If you bought a $100 share for
                 10 cents, you didn't "make a killing."  You didn't "make"
                 anything.  You wouldn't make anything until you sold it, at
                 which point your income would be value less base cost, which
                 in this case would be the stock's worth - 10 cents.  Get a
                 fucking clue before you try to argue.  --scotsman
        \_ After a peek at form 6251, I'm truly amazed.  Stock Options
           exercised is the only item on that list that is not actual
           income, interest, or depreciation.  That's gotta be illegal.
2001/4/15 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:20982 Activity:moderate
4/13    So if I tossed about $1500 bucks as a pure gamble into a $1.5 stock
        in October and today it's about 12 cents and they announced on Friday
        that the CEO is resigning and this is just before they release their
        earning report does Motd Wisdom consider this a buying opportunity
        when it drops to 3 cents on Monday?   -loves runons
        \_ No.
        \_ Whether it's a buying opportunity depends on the prospects of
           the company.  Inexpensive is not the same as cheap.  -tom
          \_ Sounds like a buying opportunity to me!  Buy more shares, lose
             more $! -oj
             \_ % more $!
                Missing filename ("less --help" for help)
        \_ Read
           before buying more of WBVN.  They are up to their head in debt,
           and will go bankrupt making your stock completely worthless.
        \_ 12 cents? How many shares do you have to buy to equal the
           commission you'd have to pay?
        \_ there are special rules in the tax code regarding worthless
           stocks.  This is a good chance for helping your taxes!
        \_ A carton of milk purchased from WebVan or 100 shares of WebVan:
           which will be worth more money in 2 weeks?
2001/3/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:20863 Activity:nil
3/20    How come when I use NT Netscape4.76 on <DEAD>csua/skey<DEAD> I can't copy
        the one-time password to the clipboard?  Can someone please either
        change it so that I can copy it, or change the font to be bigger or
        use a serif font so that I can distinguish the alphabets easier?
        Thanks a lot.
        \_ Ctrl-C doesn't copy it?
2001/3/14 [Finance/Investment] UID:20783 Activity:nil
3/13    Is it about time to start nibbling on stocks again?
        \_ When it hits 1,575, you can nibble.  That might take 2 months,
           \_ Gosh!  Thanks Motd Stock Guru!
              \_ You're welcome!
2001/2/14-15 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:20596 Activity:insanely high
2/14    Got no date?  Want something more than another valentines day
        staring at source code? Come see: "Hungry for Profit"
        Wednesday, February 14th @ 7pm 210 Wheeler
        come and learn how
        * U$ agricultural interests abroad destroy 3rd world nat'l economies
        * Agribusiness perpetuates environmental degredation
        * Imperialism keeps millions of people on the brink of starvation to
          benefit the First World
        \_ Going vegan can help solve the problem.
  (especially the
           last section)
           \_ Uh, how? Vegans eat vegitables that require farming which
              contributes to environmental collapse. You should switch
              to starvation and dieting like super models.
              \_ Raising cattle or poultry also requires farming and
                 environmental collapse.  For every calorie of meat
                 you produce requires you to put in 1000 calories to
                 feed and raise that animal.
                 \_ Glad I'm a vegitarian and not contributing to the
                \_ Commie alert
                    collapse of the "environment". Not that I give a
                    shit about it.
              \_ It doesn't solve the problem completely but it helps solve
                 the problem by slowing down collapse.
                 \_ All this collapse is bullshit. You sound like Al Bore
                    or Jimmy Carter. Americans should not be limited to small
                    dreams. BTW, I'm vegitarian by choice, and not because
                    I'm concerned with the "planet" and the "future".
                    \_ Typical sodan thinking. Well, you just keep that
                       to yourself. Most people do care about the "future".
                       By the way, if you're really concerned about your
                       health (and you probably aren't because you're
                       not concerned about other things as well) you
                       would add a little meat in your diet since meat
                       contains certain protiens you can't find in other
                       protien alternatives.
                          \_ My people have been vegitarian for thousands
                             of years and they have been living just fine.
                             The average lifespan in my family is ~ 90
                             yrs all disease free. I have the same diet
                             they do, I'm not going to change because some
                             idiot motd poster things that meat is good
                             for you. If you read modern medical science
                             you will find that any animal fat is bad for
                             your health. The lower on the food chain you
                             go for your nurishment, the better.
                             And all this "future" bs, we've got to save
                             the planet for the "future", we've got to
                             cut back on modern civilization so that the
                             "future generations" can enjoy the "planet"
                             is total crap. You basically want to restrict
                             technological progress because you can't
                             keep up and you want to condemn future
                             generations to live in an undeveloped
                       \_ there are 9 amino acids humans can't produce.
                          all of them are found in the plant world.
                       \_ Maybe you'll learn to spell protein sometime soon.
        \_ PLUZ! A world economy reduces the chance of world wars, as people
           are too busy trying to exploit each other. I'd rather have that
           than the holocaust, combat casualties, biological weapons and etc.
        \_ Typical Left-Wing Mythology. Let's all become communists like
           in CCCP and Cuba and live in dirty little hovels shivering in
           the cold without the benefit of modern civilization. Idiot.
           \_ not to argue pro-communism, but imperialist policies do extract
              an unequal exchange of values from third-world countries, via
              their technological and political leverage, thus keeping them
              much poorer than they would otherwise be. a Buick regal should
              not equal 10,000,000 bananas but it often does.
              \_ This is incorrect.  Foreign investment NEVER hurts a country.
              \_ Commie alert - I dont think Marx could have said it
                 better himself.
             \_ why would anyone that poor want to buy a buick regal?
                \_ why would anyone want to buy a buick regal?
                   \_ Do you have one? It is not too expensive and
                      is a reasonably reliable car.
             \_ the real reason 3rd world countries are poor is because they
                breed too much. they're already poor, then have 10 kids who
                end up with 1/10 of what their parents had, except for the
                few who make it to the very top. you cannot build wealth across
                generations if you're having that many kids, it's quite simple.
                growth of gdp has to exceed population growth for net per capita
                gain. but instead we have whole nations in africa where unicef
                aid is the primary economic force and they no longer even know
                how to provide for themselves, yet still have 10 kids. it's like
                feeding raccoons in your backyard, soon there are twice as many
                and they completely depend on you.
                   \_ This is the problem that they have in India. The birth
                      rate of the poorest people is about 5-10 per family.
                      A good way to help these people has yet to be devised,
                      as they reject education (its free) or better living
                      When the government clean up the slums and build good
                      housing for slum dwellers, they ended up selling the
                      free housing and returning to the slums. When the gov.
                      offered free education for the poorest children, few
                      showed up, prefering to engage in menial labor.
                      First world consumption has nothing to do with the
                      poverty these people face. Thier misery is thier own
                \_ I believe in Rush!
                \_ That's why we should support commie China's birth control
                      \_ No. I don't think that it should be forced. But
                         people ought to understand that a high birth rate
                         is unsustainable and voluntarily stop.
                         It is the part about making people understand that
                         is difficult.
                         \_ even if they understand, they won't voluntarily
                            stop. it's like traffic congestion. we all
                            understand that if most of us employed alternative
                            transportation the roads would be clearer, so what.
                            why should i do it if you don't.
                            \_ alternative transportation? you mean RIDE
                               BIKE?!? I live +30 miles from work. I can't
                               possibly RIDE BIKE! Yeah I could take a bus,
                               but I just have to change 5 times and it only
                               takes 5 hours. What about the train you say?
                               Well for $6.50 a day, its cheaper and faster
                               to drive.
                               If well planned alternative transport was
                               available I would take it. I have in the past.
                               I took BART from Fremont every day for the
                               four years I was at Cal.
                               \_ yes but that's my point; using other transport
                                  is a disadvantage to you so you won't do it
                                  unless you have to, or unless it's only
                                  slightly less convenient than cars. thus
                                  the analogy to people stopping having kids.
                                  which deprives them of their instinctive
                                  reproduction need and...oh forget it. besides
                                  no one forced you to live +30 mi from work.
                                  \_ I can't afford to pay $1800-$2400 in rent
                                     every month after the IRS gets its unfair
                                     The BART was farily less convenient than
                                     driving, but I still did it because it
                                     was reasonably priced and moderately well
                                     planned and managed. The trains and buses
                                     are no where near that well run. If they
                                     were I would take them.
                               \_ Driving costs ~$0.32 per mile on average when
                                  maintenance, depreciation, etc. are taken
                                  into account.  That's how much you can deduct
                                  on the tax form for driving your own car for
                                  business purpose.
                                  \_ I don't think the IRS will take too kindly
                                     to my deducting $0.32 for each mile driven.
                                     Anyway, I've tried public transport to work,
                                     it just doesn't work for me and I believe
                                     that it doesn't for most people, that's
                                     why buses and trains go empty.
                                     Planning is key to public transport and
                                     that is sorely lacking in CA.
                   \_ yeah, maybe we can come up with a darwinist birth policy.
                      we say a kid is worth like $200k. for each kid you want,
                      you have to pay the gov't that amount. problem solved.
                      \_ Uhhh.. pay the government!?  Why?  Why not just stop
                         (in this country) providing monetary incentives for
                         poor families to have more children?  Why not instead
                         provide no monies at all to support the kids, and
                         if they have them and can't care for them, offer them
                         to the families who can afford them that want kids.
        \_ hey, this is the motd, we already know all that stuff!
           \_ come anyway.  it's a decent film.
        \_ and these people are the same ones who voted for
           Clinton & Gore - gimme a break
        \_ yeah right, russia had their whole nation starve with communisism
           and their food lines.
           \_ Don't argue...  If it were up to me I would send the whole
              american communist lot to China or Russia for an educational
              two-week tour of the likely results of the hegemony of the
              proletariat. -- born in russia
              \_ Just because you extremist dumb fucks screwed things up,
                 doesn't mean others will.
                 \_ You don't understand.  Property redistribution is wrong.
                    The more you go with it, the worse off you will be.
                    Don't give me your misguided relativism.  Communism is
                    a bad idea.  Always was, always will be.  It's a good thing
                    many people can actually learn from Russia's tragic
                    mistakes, even if overfed dumb fucks like you can't.
                    \_ Sorry.  Liberals != Communists.  I know it may be
                       hard for little russian ex-commies to understand
                       that.  The main reason soviet union failed is
                       due to having a command economy rather than a
                       market economy.  Nobody is suggesting that
                       we turn the economy into a command economy.
                       \_ You don't want to be lecturing a 'little russian
                          ex-commie' on why CCCP failed.  The reason CCCP
                          failed is because 'property redistribution' ==
                          invitation to loot the wealthy (i.e. productive)
                          members of society.  No society succeeds with such
                          an economic plan.  A command economy was an after-
                          thought, a temporary way to keep a dead body in
                          motion for a few more years.
                          \_ Like I said, you don't have to
                             push things to extremes.  A little
                             "redistribution of wealth" like the
                             progressive tax and intelligent use of
                             welfare to help people with difficulties
                             get back up is actually good for the
                             economy.  Of course you do not want to
                             constantly redistributing wealth such that
                             there no longer is any incentive to work.
                             \_ taxation is a violation of my freedom.
                                The founding fathers knew this and it
                                was banned until early this century.
                                Progressive taxation which takes money
                                from someone who rightfully owns it
                                and gives it to someone who doesn't
                                is a crime. It should be outlawed.
                                Its my damn money and you've no right
                                to it. If I choose to help poor people
                                that is my right. If I don't that is
                                my right too. You should not take it
                                from me because you think that it is
                    \_ Some people here in the west are just too dumb
                       to understand how bad the living conditions are
                       in a communist society. They think that the
                       everyone is equal because everyone is a poor
                       peon is a good thing.
        \_ Is it free?  I don't want to have to pay to get brainwashed, lied
           to, mislead, and only told one side of a very complex story.  Also,
           what are my odds of picking up a real hottie commie chick and
           getting some action after the flick?  If I show the proper signs of
           being brainwashed do my chances go up?  Are there any hottie commie
           chicks or are they all hairy armpit club wielding Berkeley leftists?
           \_ hottie commie chicks is an oxymoron. There was a saying in
              communist russian: What do you call a pretty girl in Russia?
              A tourist.
              \_ Nah.  I remember this very pretty russian gymnast who,
                 after coming to the US, became fat and ugly.
                 \_ maybe if your idea of pretty is "prepubescent anorexic."
2001/2/13-14 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:20584 Activity:high
2/13    Is it theoretically possible at all to achieve zero inflation and zero
        unemployment at the same time in a non-communist economy?
        \_ why don't you go stand in that circle in sproul with a friend and
           you can start a company together trading goods back and forth
           using a curency that you set that never changes.  you are both
           employed, and there is no inflation.  don't be communist
           and you're all set.  moron.
           \_ You call that an economy, moron?  I'm just asking a question on
              theory of economics stemmed from fading memory from ECON 100B.
              I'm not trying to promote communism or anything.
              \_  why not?  I was trying to make the point that dealing with
                  totally hypothetical and abstract ideas in economics is
                  pointless.  I realize lot's of shucksters and math grad
                  school dropouts make a living off of this, but its still
                  a fucking waste of time.
        \_ Uh no. Unemployment reflects some of those who are of working
           age who do not want to or are not capable of working. It will
           never be 0 unless you force all the housewifes, househusbands,
           and cripples to work.
           \_ Nah, unemployment only includes those who want to find work,
              but is so far unable to find one which he or she is willing
              to take.
        \_ who wants zero unemployment? isn't the goal zero forced employment?
        most of us have to work, but don't want to. there are also non-
        competitive currency models to consider. read
         \_ uhh, you do know that generally unemployment numbers do not count
            people who are not interested in working.  They are supposed to
            reflect the percentage of people who are looking for jobs but
            don't have one.  Otherwise the numbers would be a hell of a lot i
                \_ really? I did not know that. So in most european countries
                   ~ 10 - 12% of the people who want to find work can't?
                   Damn. It must suck to live there.
                   \_ yeah but they get generous welfare so they probably don't
        \_ not in human economy.  but probably true in the animal world.
           \_ nice try, but I would say that > 99.9% of animals (humans
              excluded) are unemployed.
                      look that hard.
                   \_ Unemployment is calculated differently in
                      some european countries -- they consider part-time
                      workers as un-employed.
                \_ agreed; unemployment numbers count only those interested
                in working. but the motivation behind the question is that
                most people are interested in working. this isn't true;
                most people don't want to do the work they're doing.
        \_ The statistics that I don't understand is "personal savings
           rate".  It is defined as the percentage of "disposable income"
           saved, but what exactly is "disposable income"?  Does that
           include 401k, etc.?  I was wondering because the country has
           been having a negative personal savings rate recently.
                \_ disposable income = income minus primary needs (food,
2001/2/12-13 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:20567 Activity:high
2/12    I am broke. I am looking for an ass-kicking spreadsheet to start
        keeping track my expenses.
        \_ Quicken and Microsoft Money are better at this than any spreadsheet.
        \_ Its called a ledger. You can make using a $0.10 notebook from
           longs or payless. You have one column where you write in the date
           of a transaction, another where you write in a description and
           a last one where you record if it was + (deposit) or - (expense).
           Add it up at the bottom of a page and transfer to the next.
           \_ I just use a plain text file to do this.
                   \_ If you are broke, a text file costs too much money.
                \_ Perl!
           \_ $0.10 notebook?  What decade are you living in?
        \_ Hey, I thought we went throught this!  Use automatically deposit
           to put a portion of your paycheck into a savings account and DO NOT
           ever withdraw from that account.  I'm able to saving 20K a year
           that way.  And I'm not making 6 figures.  -frugal guy
           \_ Only 20K. How much do you make? ~ 45K? I'm saving ~ 40K a
              year by direct deposit into my money market account and
              I'm making not making 6 figures either.
                 to my parents (non-tax-deductible) and contributing 11% to my
                 401(k), and I'm not making 6 figures either.  Although it's
                 sad that we need to compete on how little we spend instead of
                 how much we make.
              \_ I'm making $2600 mortgage payment a month and sending $1K/mo
                 to my parents (non-tax-deductible since they're not listed as
                 my dependents) and contributing 11% to my 401(k), and I'm not
                 making 6 figures either.  Although it's sad that we need to
                 compete on how little we spend instead of how much we make.
                    \_ I'm 15% to 401(k), 10% to ESPP, the rest directly
                       into my money market accoount. I live at home with
                       my parents, so I cut back on costs there. The only
                       recurring costs I have are DSL ($69/mo) and my car
                       ($50 gas/mo, $50 insurance/mo, $20 maintenance/mo).
                       Occasionally I buy clothes or computer equipment,
                       but my yearly expenditure is covered by dividends
                        earn more via investments and such)
                       on a single mutal fund I own, all the other dividends
                       are reinvested. - soon to be member of the idle
                       (BTW, I don't consider non-salary income toward
                        that 6 figure thing. My salary is less, but I
                        earn much more via investments and such)
                        \_ what good is being idle and rich if you live at
                           home with your parents?  The values of sodans need
                           some serious whacking.  -tom
                              \_ With the money I am saving, I can easily
                                 move into my own house in Saratoga or
                                 Woodside. I can do whatever I want
                                 whenever I want. I don't have to go to
                                 work do what my boss or some stupid
                                 customer wants. I can just sit around
                                 and make money and enjoy myself.
                                 That's what idle rich means.
                                 And what's wrong with living with your
                                 parents? My parents are extremely nice.
                                 I'd have to be pretty damn stupid to
                                 move out and spend money.
                                 \_ I envy you having nice parents.  My mom is
                                    a dictator comparing to other moms (she
                                    even forced me to dump my gf,
                                    successfully, who was "just a little dis-
                                    respectful occasionally.  Just a little,
                                    really.  Other than that she's a very nice
                                    girl."), yet she has the gut to tell
                                    people that she's one of the most liberal
                                    parents in the world.  Geez.
                                \_ let's don't have a girlfriend,
                                   or any activities you spend money on.
                                   exactly what are you going to do to
                                   "enjoy yourself" when you have "enough"
                                   money?  Get a life; money is a means, not
                                   a goal.  -tom
                                      \_ Spoken like a true poor peon.
                                         You don't really understand
                                         what it means to be rich do
                                         you? Too bad.
                                         \_ Sigh... not only is the sky falling
                                            but there must be solar flares too.
                                            Rich is nice but if being rich means
                                            this guy spends the rest of his
                                            life in his parents basement
                                            waiting for the magic day that he
                                            has "enough" money then the guy is
                                            totally lost.  I'd rather be middle
                                            class and have a life than rich in
                                            my parent's basement.  "Mikey!
                                            Dinner is ready!  And don't forget
                                            to clean your room before your
                                            little friends come over!"
                                        \_ I absolutely understand what it
                                           means to be rich, and it has
                                           practically nothing to do with
                                           numbers on pieces of paper.  -tom
                                   \_ The sky is falling!  This must be the
                                      Twilight Zone or Outer Limits.  I find
                                      myself in total agreement with tom!
                                   \_ for a "ride bike, save the whales" guy,
                                      you're pretty short-sighted.  be
                                      realistic.  sometimes you need to
                                      accumulate wealth to do what you want.
                           \_ uh, to save toward the future for when they
                              eventually move out?   what good is being idle
                              and poor if you're living by yourself in an
                              an apartment?  I mean, come on, it's not like
                              most Sodans need the privacy for a love-life or
                              \_ A love-life costs $s. And if you get
                                 married, in CA she gets 1/2 of your
                                 stuff. No woman is worth 1/2 of my
                                 portfolio. Better to be single, rich
                                 and free.
                                \_ Happy Valentines Day, tool
                 \_ My mortgage is higher, my parents are multi-multi-multi-
                    millionaires, I'm making comfortable 6 figures, putting
                    in 10% and I still have time to edit the motd.  Oh yeah,
                    redecorating the house next month, too.  The maid will
                    like the new arrangement as it leaves her less to clean.
                    \_ In other words, yer mom is kicking your lazy, fat,
                       arrogant ass out of the house because your life is as
                       pointless and contrived as your motd posts.
                       \_ No.  Why is it so hard to comprehend that others on
                          the motd live the good life?  I *know* there are
                          others here who have and continue to do even better
                          than me.  I don't get grumpy about it.  I applaud
                          and cheer their success.
                    \_ sign yer posts so i can track your ass down.
                       \_ YWTFMITA?
                       \_ Yeah and then what?  You wanted to meet the maid?
                          She's kinda cute.
                          \_ Any pics?
                                \_ No, but I could setup a webcam if you were
                                   dying to see her.
                                   \_ That'd be great.  Thanks.  URL?
                    \_ Well, my parents aren't that poor either.  They eat out,
                       pay hundreds of dollars per month on international phone
                       calls, renovate their home, trade stocks, had an apt.
                       unit to collect rent, own a car in a country where a
                       parking space costs $400/mo and public transportation
                       can take you to places faster than driving.  Recently
                       they even almost bought a brandnew Mercedes even though
                       sales tax on cars is 100%.  But they still want me to
                       send them $1K/mo even thought I can't even afford
                       eating out.  Sucks.
                        \_ Get new parents.
                           \_ Could it be Tokyo?
                              \_ Isn't sales tax on cars much lower than 100%
                                 in Japan?
                        \_ the place ur parents live, could it be HK?
                           \_ Good guess.  Yes it is HK.
                              \_ then ur parents' reason for collecting
                                 money from you would be helping u save
                                 money for marriage...
                                 \_ My parents demand tribute as well, but
                                    at least it's not as fucked up as that.
                                    My parents are upper middle class Chinese.
2001/2/10-12 [Finance/Investment] UID:20560 Activity:high
2/10    My online broker (suretrade) just merged with another broker.
        From what I've seen, Datek seems like a nice one to switch
        over too (I'm a small time trader and Datek's cheap). Which
        online broker have people had good experiences with?
        \_ Avoid E-Trade, American Express.  I have Schwab out of
           laziness/inertia.  At least you can go hassle someone in person
           when they screw up.  --oj
           laziness/inertia.  At least you can go hassle someone in
           person when they screw up.  --oj [reformatted]

                \_ I have Morgan Stanley (ex-Discover, Lombard) for the
                        same reason. Had them for years w/o any probs.
                \_ I second avoiding E-Trade.
           \_ What's bad about E*TRADE?  I have both Schwab and E*TRADE but
              I don't touch my accounts that often.  I think E*TRADE charges
              less than Schwab for trading stocks.  (I also have PaineWebber,
              but last I checked it's not on-line.)
        \_ I've used Datek for years and have no complaints
           \_ I started with Datek, but then switched over to SmithBarney.
              They have a nice option that gives you free trades for the whole
              year, in return for like .5% of portfolio value.  I think the
              listed % is around 1.2%, but if you talk to an individual broker,
              they will discount it to around .5%.  Oh, and you can do partial
              buys into mutual funds, which is nice, if you want to get in on
              some of the hotter ones which have minimum buy-in amounts.  oh,
              also you can talk to your broker about getting in on the more
              limited mutual funds which just open for initial investment for
              a couple days or so, before the fund fills up.
              \_ I have SmithBarney because of Options and ESPP. They are
                 okay, but I wouldn't use them unless you have 200K+ in
                 assets. Its a hassle for small investors.
        \_ I've been using National Discount Brokers ( for
           almost 5 years without any problems. ----ranga
           \_ Gotta love the duck quack option on their 1-800 number, too.
              \_ Yeah. I've been told its quite funny. This has never
                 affected my service or my opinion of NDB. They are
                 reasonably priced, friendly and efficient. ----ranga
        \_ I stuff all my money under the matress.  Never had a problem
           *and* I didn't lose my ass in 2000.
           \_ where do you live?  what room is your mattress in?
                \_ It's the house with the guns in it.  You're welcome by
                   anytime, friend.
           \_ You too? WOW I though I was the only one. Did you stock
              up on ammo and rice also? I did. 7.65mm and .45s along
              with 100 kgs of rice. I'm ready to weather the storm.
           \_ Money market account would have been fine, you know.
                \_ You trust the government to insure your life savings???
                   \_ That's treasury bonds, not money markets.
        \_ If you're investing and not "trading" (i.e. you aren't trying to
           hit specific price targets, but rather trying to build up
           positions in good stocks), consider a dollar-value investing
           company like Buy&Hold (my fave), Sharebuilder, or FolioFn.  Trades
           are dirt cheap, but infrequent.  For example, Sharebuilder charges
           $2.00/trade, and does the trades in agregate on Tuesdays.  Buy&Hold
           charges $2.99/trade and does them twice a day. -brian
2001/2/1-2 [Finance/Investment] UID:20492 Activity:nil
2/1     If I have x dollars in a Charles Schwab (or E*TRADE or Paine Webber or
        alike) account investing in stocks / mutual funds / money market,
        and the brokerage firm goes bankrupt, am I guaranteed by SIPC to get
        my money back at its current value?
        \_ I don't think SIPC guarantees money back.  Only banks are back-up
                by the Fed $10k per account.
2001/1/26-27 [Finance/Investment] UID:20445 Activity:high
1/25    "People prefer beautiful, rich, smart people. If you pick a good
        stock you want to tell people about it. And what you're really
        telling them is that you're smart and that you're rich."
           \_ "You can never be too thin or too rich."
        \_ Duh.
        \_ "I'd rather be rich than stupid."
           \_ 49.5% of voting Americans don't seem to think so.
                \_ Which 49.5% was that and how many of those were stuffed
                   into Chicago and NY ballot boxes?
2001/1/22 [Finance/Investment] UID:20396 Activity:low
1/21    Vinnie Jones, of Snatch and Lock Stock etc. fame, was formerly a
        british soccer player infamous for a picture of him grabbing an
        opponent by the nuts.  3 mad props to whomever can produce a link.
          \_ Props available in /csua/tmp/vinnie
           \_ Fuck off.
        \_ Sometimes nothing more need be said.
2001/1/17-19 [Finance/Investment, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20355 Activity:moderate
1/17    Next dot com demise-- WebVan. News at 11.
        \_ tell us more... or tell
           \_ WebVan still has over $100 million in the bank, it's not
              near doom yet.  There are questions about its viability in
              the mid-term.  -tom
        \_ Put your money down.  Sell short.
           \_ peon investors can't short stocks trading below $5.  -tom
           \_ peeon investors can't short stocks trading below $5.  -tom
                \_ well, not entirely true.  between $1 and $5, you just
                   have lowered margin requirements.  below $1, your
                   statement is true.  (so it's still true for WBVN)
2000/12/6-8 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Finance/Investment] UID:20024 Activity:nil
12/6    How do you change the vertical separate in Emacs? Horizontal is done
        with click and drag but not the vertical one.
        \_ I can click and drag.  With keyboard, C-x } or {.
2000/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Finance/Investment] UID:19958 Activity:nil
11/30   How the fuck can the stock market go any lower? All my holdings
        have P/E ratios of 10. Fuck.
        \_ That's because our economy is dictated by idiot investors,
           brokers, what not... why graduated from a business majors
           and base things on arbitrary rules. The economy doesn't work
           logically. It works based on whay idiots tell us to think.
        \_ What are they.  I wanna buy some.
                \_ At last prices consistent with reasonable ideas of valuation.
                        \_ shut up, nweaver.
        \_ Thank Mr. Gore.
                \_ it's absurd to blame the market problems on the election.
                   The market is down because dozens of major players have
                   missed expectations and warned of difficult conditions
                   ahead.  -tom
                   \_ Hey Tom.  What are you gonna say when the market will
                      bounce once this bullshit is over?
                      \_ tom will say that the market will bounce once Bush
                         is sent packing back to texas. No bias there.
                        \_ I actually don't think the market's gyrations are
                           affected much one way or the other by who the
                           president is or isn't.  It will bounce back when
                           companies start reporting good earnings again. -tom
                           \_ Several companies have good earnings, yet they
                              are down, way down. Why? Major Investors are
                              spooked by ALGOR's reluctance to adhere to the
                              rule of law.
                   \_ Uh, Cisco, Sun are down because they missed expectations?
                      No. They are down because investors are worried that ALGOR
                      will somehow succeeed in stealing the election and become
                      Pres. Gore is bad for the country and major investors know
                      it, that's why they are pulling out. If Bush becomes Pres.
                      (the office which is rightfully his under the constitution)
                      the market will go back up as major investors will begin to
                      \_ Is that why all those tech CEO's pledged $$ to Al Gore?
                          \_ major investors (institutional) != tech CEO's.
                             major investors == mutual funds, brokerages, banks
                             And not all tech CEO's were nimrod ALGOR supporters,
                             Chambers, McNeely, Dell, made the right choice and
                             backed Bush.
           \_ You ain't seen nothin' yet. - Al
              \_ I'm sorry. You must be a Gore imposter. Everyone knows he
                 would instead say "You... have... not... seen... anything...
                 ... ... yet."
                 \_ Al is not only the inventor of the internet, but also
                    an 3113T H@XOR. He's probably posting from his R00T SH311!
2000/10/30 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:19600 Activity:nil
10/30?  was there a time change today or something. ?   i only have one
        clock and it's anaolog and i dont wind it all the time, and it
        said thtat the time was over an hour from what it really was, but
        i really thougnt i wound it last night. did that happen to anyone
        else?  is it daylight savings or somthieng.?
        \_ moron
        \_ If you forgot to wind the clock, it would be behind, not ahead of,
           correct time.  Next time think of something more realistic when
           you write a troll.
2000/10/18-19 [Academia/GradSchool, Finance/Investment] UID:19512 Activity:very high
10/17   I'm a non-CS major and want to go to grad school in CS. Do grad
        schools care what your major is? What kind of chances do I have (with
        good grades etc.)?
        \_ Yes and depends on school.
           \_ I agree.
           \_ I disagree.
              \_ Are you serious?
        \_ Expect to take a lot of undergraduate CS classes. In fact, you
           might want to start already at some other (local? less
           expensive?) school before applying.
        \_ Talk to the graduate adminisistration folks and some profs at the
           schools you'd like to attend.  In many cases, attending classes
           elsewhere first as suggested above can hurt you.
           \_ Might not hurt your wallet. Depends on the situation.
              Usually schools will want you to take remedial work with
              them, but one has to question their motives at times. Taking
              classes may not help but will *never* hurt in spite of the
              scare tactics that Top Ten programs use.
        \_ happens frequently, mostly w/ people who already have Math or
           Physics degree. My former roomate, a former astro-physics Phd
           candidate, dropped out of his Phd program got into a CS Phd
           program back in 96. I'm not saying that anyone should give it
           a try. It is for the selected few. If you don't have a good math
           or technical background or don't have good grades, don't even
           waste your time.
           \_ Ok, so I am hoping for a really good program like Berkeley or MIT
              or maybe CMU. Can anyone say if it is common here? (I'd be a
              math major, so I think I'd have the background needed.)
              --original poster
              \_ Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, and CMU are the top 4 schools.
                 Washington, UCLA, Princeton, etc are second tier.  Whether
                 or not you can get in depends on what you want to study
                 and how much effort you plan to invest.  If you just want
                 a masters degree to boost your salary, then you don't need
                 one of the top tier schools.  A master in systems from
                 Washington will do just as well.  If you're serious about
                 getting a PhD, then you should first figure out what you
                 want to study, and it had better be something you already
                 know something about.  Then you should figure out which
                 professors you want to work with at each school, and read
                 up on their current research.  Then go talk to his/her
                 grad students to get the inside scoop and get a feel for
                 your chances at being accepted.  This is just generic
                 advice about grad school.  If you want to describe your
                 situation in more detail, I can expend with more free
              \_ You need to do something really cool, or show solid time
                 investment and do something somewhat cool.
           \_ oh by the way, anyone can get into a 3rd tier graduate school
              like Santa Clara. So if prestige is not a big deal (e.g. if
              you're not aiming for Berkeley or MIT) then go for it.
              \_ what is considered 2nd tier?
                 \_ Santa Clerkeley
                 \_ UCLA, Princeton, Duke, for instance. Schools with a
                    developing program that's showing signs of hope but isn't
                    saturated enough with prestigious faculty.
                    \_ I would think 2nd tier are those ranked around
                       11-20.  3rd are those around 21-40.  4th, are places
                       like Santa Clara.
                           \_ don't go to santa clara.  it's just a shit
                              school for rich assholes anyhow.
                              \_ it really shouldn't even be deemed a grad
                                 school. just a masters degree purchase program
                              \_ What's wrong with being rich?  Why does being
                                 wealthy automagically make someone an asshole?
                                 Is this one of those "too much time with bh"
                                 communist things?
                                 \_ Yea, I think it should be "rich dumbasses"
                                    instead of "rich assholes".
                                        \_ They got rich by being stupid?  I'm
                                           still waiting to hear the problem
                                           with being rich and why the wealthy
                                           are somehow flawed compared to the
                                           \_ Santa Clara -> rich and stupid
                                              because if you are poor, you
                                              can't afford it and if you are
                                              smart, you go to a better school.
                                              As for why they are rich in the
                                              first place: it's their dad
                                              who is rich.  As for why their
                                              who is rich.  As for why the
                                              dad is rich and yet the kid is
                                              stupid, there are two possbili-
                                              ties: (1) genes work in funny
                                              ways, (2) The dad got rich not
                                              by being smart, but by being
                                              an asshole (i.e. He is a rich
                                              smart and an asshole (i.e.
                                              asshole).  If you are both
                                              smart and an asshole (i.e. a
                                              smart asshole), you get to be
                                              really rich. eg. Billy Gates.
                                              Got it now?
                                              \_ I see.  So this is all Santa
                                                 Clara specific?  Glad you
                                                 have this all worked out.
                                                 \_ Huh?  Wasn't Santa Clara
                                                    what it was about all
                                                        \_ No.
                      \_ What about USCS, SJSU?
                      \_ What about UCSC, SJSU?
                         \_ UCSC's CS program seems to be showing signs of
                            hope -- at the very least, some of their faculty
                            aren't totally anonymous. Still doesn't qualify
                            as "2nd tier" to me, but it may get there soon
                            if they work on it. (This pertinent to grad
                            school only)
                         \_ uh, shit schools for poorer folks.
                                  there's this one asshole at my company
                                  from san jose state, he's a dumbass,
                                  and my cousins went to sjsu.  mind
                                  you, they are not that dumb, just
                                  strapped for cash.  the school
                                  you go to doesn't necessarily
                                  determine how intelligent you are
                                  when you leave...i mean, i left
                                  cal, which is supposed to be a "good"
                                  school, but i have all kinds of
                                  pricks asking me "didn't you
                                  already learn this in school" type
                                  of questions at work, from place
                                  to place.  the best determiner
                                  is mainly how much you push yourself.
                                  \_ From your English and the questions those
                                     'pricks' ask you, it doesn't sound like
                                     you pushed yourself very hard, you lazy
                                     fuck.  I hope you get fired.  You got
                                     quite an attitude for someone who is
                                     obviously dead weight.
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/Security, Finance/Investment] UID:19337 Activity:nil
9/26    E*Trade security problem:
2000/8/31 [Finance/Investment] UID:19136 Activity:kinda low
8/31    Anybody have any experience opening a swiss bank account?  With the
        internet, moving money offshore has become easier than ever.  I'm
        looking for suggestions on swiss banks?  Online access and NASDAQ
        stock trading is a must.   Thanks.
        \_ planning to do a repeat of the Emulex Hoax?
        \_ Those of us who are 3117 $$$ h4x0rs do not wish to disclose
           this information on the motd.  St00pid.
2000/8/27-28 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:19103 Activity:high
8/26    So what's the best vehicle to keep my money in
        that I am not ready to invest for the long term?
        money market?  brokerage account?  CD?  savings account?
           To spare you the trouble of reading, put it into an
           index fund (one based on the S&P 500). But I would
           read it in its entirety if I were you.
           \_ you are kidding right?  S&P 500 index fund is a stock fund
              and is not appropriate for short term investing.
        \_ i keep it in the glove compartment of my ford tempo.
        \_ the one that offers the best liquidity for the amount of
              C. Brokerage money account -- pretty good option.  The Rates
           return you desire with the level of risk you can stomach.
           \_ I agree.  Other choices:
              A. CD, can have better return than money market.  However,
                 this is not liquid.  If you need the money in a month,
                 and you can get a one year Cd, you are in trouble.
                 Rates are fixed for the term.
              B. Savings accounts -- no way.  They are FDIC insured,
                 but the yield is way too low.
              C. Brokerage money market acct -- pretty good option.  The Rates
                 are around 5.5%-6.5% these days.  They are not
                 FDIC insured, but some may be insured by the SIPC and other
                 independent companies.  Some have limits too, like $100,000
                 protection.  Read your prospectus carefully.
                 Rates fluctuate.
              D. Bonds and Treasury's -- good option.  Better than CD's
                 because you can sell them before maturity.  However, this
                 requires more knowledge than CD's, and if you don't
                 have a lot of money, this can be a problem.  Watch
                 commission costs in buying bonds through a broker, too.
                 If held through maturity, you can are guaranteed (Treasury)
                 getting back what you put in.  For corporate bonds,
                 you may not get back what you put in if it defaults.
                 Bonds are not recommended for beginners.
              E. Bond mutual funds -- like bonds but you don't get your full
                 money back at the end of the term.  (there is no term
                 for a bond mutual fund).  Offers diversification of
                 bonds, so called expert management, and you can have lower
                 initial investment.  Some have no fee and no load.
                 They do have a yearly expense fee hidden in the return
                 of the bond fund.  Like bonds (if not held to maturity),
                 you can lose some money due to normal market conditions.
      \_ leave it to the motd to give wishy washy answers. Here's where
         you should put your money: the Strong Advantage bond fund.
         about 1-year maturity, slightly lower quality than your typical
         ultra-short term bond fund, but yielding 7.3%. BEAT THAT!!
                \_ Look at REIT's; slightly riskier, but fairly safe as
                   stocks go.  ENN, for example, is yielding over 15%.
                   There are lots of REIT's with various dividend levels
                   and risk levels (directly proportional). -tom
                \_ I made $50 in Vegas last weekend _after_ paying all my
                   costs!  BEAT THAT!!
                   \_ done with ultra high risk.
             \_ both of those have much more share price volatility than
                Strong Advantage (check out its chart, the price volatility
                has been virtually nil), though it does have pretty high
                yield volatility, but most bond funds do.
        \_ offers rates up to 6.5% APY for FDIC insured,
           fully liquid accounts.  Their website doesn't look good
           in Netscape under Unix, though.
2000/8/11 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18969 Activity:nil
8/11    I am a contractor and my client wants me to take some stock instead
        of cash as payment. This is for 3-4 months required to finish the
        project that went into overtime. How do I calculate the number of
        shares that (given some risk factor) would match the decrease in
        my hourly rate? Looking for a URL with an explanation and a formula,
        if one exists. These will probably be non-qualifying stock options.
        \_ Don't do it. They'll stiff you.
                \_ More or less yes and that's why I want to make an
                   informed decision
2000/8/7-8 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18909 Activity:high
8/7     A variation on the salary increase question from last week.  Which
        person is considered wealthier according to your standards.  I'll
        take stock options out of the picture, since both persons can have
        stock while making different salaries.
        Person A -- making 120K a year. Spending nearly all the money on
                    expensive restaurants, clothes, a BMW, fancy apartment,
                    etc.  Nearly 0 in savings.
        Person B -- making 70K a year.  Drives an old toyota, rents a house
                    with 3 other people, brings his own lunch.  Saves nearly
                    30K a year.
        \_ This question is flawed.
                \_ I agree.  The question is deeply flawed.  At best you could
                   calculate total worth at the end of each quarter/year and
                   say that B probably owns more than A and is therefore
                   wealthier but quality of life has unmeasurable value.
        \_ both are idiots.
        \_ Both are wealither than me.  I make $90K a year and I don't spend
           money on expensive restaurants (or hardly any restaurants), clothes,
           computers, AV equipments, trips or fancy car, and I only pay
           $2100K/mo on mortgage.  But I still save $0 because I have to give
           $1K/mo and all the money I made from stock options to my parents
           and they still wonder why I'm not saving any money!
           \_ Why do you give them money?  What's wrong with them?
              \_ Must be asian parents.
                 \_ Not all asian parents are like that. My parents
                    (indian) helped my buy my options. jj's parents
                    (chinese) let him freeload too.
        \_ Person A gets more pussy. Person B is more certain to have money
           when he's old, but he'll regret his boring life.
        \_ What about Person C:
           Person C -- making 80K a year. Drives pre-owned luxury car,
                       lives with parents, brings lunch that mom makes.
                       Has fast DSL/Cable line as only recurring expense.
                       Saves ~ 40K a year.
                       \_ Forgot, also has several has several hundred K
                          in options since he has the cash to buy them,
                          unlike A and B.
           \_ Wow, sounds like me.
           \_ And me. Its an economical lifestyle. I'll eventually become
              a millionare.
        \_ Person D -- wealthy in spirit and rich in life.
        \_ This is a trollish lifestyle question, not a salary increase
           question.  My lifestyle has improved from 70k --> 120k but not
           the way you have it.  I don't throw all my money away but I spend
           more now than I did to improve my quality of life.  I also save.
           \_ The question is "who is wealthier".  Not who has better lifestyle
              Lifestyle is highly subjective.  Does bill gates have a better
              lifestyle than Mother Theresa?  More money != better lifestyle.
              Wealth, however, is an absolute measure of money.  Just because
              you make money doesn't mean that you have more.  I'd have to
              say that person B is wealthier for the simple reason that he
              has more money in the bank than person A at the end of every
        \_ Person C gets no pussy, does he.  Infact, person C probably turned
           to computers as "his olnly friend" when the big bad bullies of
           jr high took his lunchmoney.  This was infuriated later when he
           tried to ask a girl out in high school and she laughed in his face
           awww, poor nerd boy.  poor poor nerd boy.
           \_ The "poor nerd boy" is laughing all the way to the bank.
        \_ Thousands ain't gonna make you rich.  You are lapping at the scraps
           that business folks are throwing at you.  Only relax when you
           can measure your net worth, and holdings and have to use floats
           - paolo
                a career.
             \_ No but options are. By living at home you can afford to max
                out your 401K and your ESPP and buy all your vested options
                which will put you into the big leagues over the course of
                a career. Yes you have no woman, but you $'s. $'s are forever.
                You can use $'s to get women at any age. 40 yr old multi-
                millionare nerd boys can get more play than 24 year old
                BMW boy.
           \_ cunt
           \_ i measure my net worth in octal, i must be poor. you moron.
              \_ no, you're just a smart ass geek.
           \_ decimals: 0.00002
        \_ person A and B are cunts.  In fact so is person C.  That's what C
           stands for.
        \_ I claim that paolo authored this entire motd entry, in a fit
           of jealous rage against kinney.
2000/7/31-8/1 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18834 Activity:high
7/31    Why would stock split affect the stock price? Wouldn't the total
        valuation of the company stay the same? Afterall, it is the
        percentage gain/loss, not the actual dollar amount, that matters.
        \_ Why do I have to eat?  I get hungry sometimes, and I eat,
           but then my shoes are too big.
            \_ why are you a such a moron/freak?
        \_ because people are irrational.  (don't tell me this is the first bit
           of evidence you have noticed). -crebbs
        \_ stock split really shouldn't affect price.  But at Crebbs says,
           people are irrational.  Plus, a stock split often means that
           the management is very confident in their performance.  Plus,
           people like to buy in 100 lot shares.  The lower the price,
           the easier it is to buy 100 lot shares.
           \_ trend analysis shows that average stock performance after a
              split is actually lower than before.  but it's not very
              significant either way.  You used to have to buy in lots of
              100 shares or else pay a lot extra, but that's no longer true.
                \_ some people actually do trading not on the actual split
                   date, but on the split announcement.  Some people
                   buy on the rumour, and sell on the news (the split).
                        \_ but in answer to the initial query, viewed with
                           reasonable time scales in mind, splits are noop's.
                                \_ yermom is all but noop
                                \_ whoa... I need to go back to bed... I find
                                   myself agreeing with tom....  Must be a bad
                                   dream... see you in a few hours. zzzzzzz...
2000/7/20-21 [Recreation/Dating, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:18734 Activity:kinda low
7/20    SDLI $500+ by the end of the month!  It's unstoppable man!
                -MSFT millionaire and now fiber optics millionaire
        \_ Good for you.  But you're still a luser.  Go away.
        \_ Can you say JDSU?
        \_ motd poll.  What's more exciting?  Sex or watching your favorite
           stock go up $68 (20%) in a day?
           sex     0
           stock   1
           sex while watching your favorite stock go up 1
2000/7/11-12 [Finance/Investment] UID:18639 Activity:high
7/11    I currently get paid 93K in SV. I got an offer in NYC doing
        financial app for $130K. Is it a better deal considering a higher
        living standard there?
        \_ 93k?  That's it?  Doing what?
        \- cost of living != living standard. this is going to turn on
        what life style you want to some extent and not "can i live the same
        lifestyle for 35% more money". if you want more $, change jobs in the
        area. --psb
        \_ Also, have you ever lived in New York or spent an extended period
           of time there before?  People tend to be bipolar regarding the
           city-- either they fall in love with it or they hate it.  Who
           cares about the potential raise if you end up hating the city.
           \_ Yep. You might end up to be a John Rocker.
                \_ who?
           \_ I agree with dans.  New York is a nice place to visit, but
              I would much rather live in SV than NY.  You should
              definetly spend some time in NY before you accept the job. -emin
              \_ thus demonstrating dans' argument.  i'd rather die than live
                 in silly valley, but i'd kill to live in ny.  with a proper
                 salary that is.  if you're poor its the worst place in the
                 universe.  -lye
        \_ I live in California because I hate NY.  -ex NYer
        \_ Seems like a good deal. Parts of Bay Area are already outgunning
           Manhattan rent-wise. Hate NYC myself though, nasty place. -muchandr
2000/6/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:18417 Activity:high
6/5     Poll: Stock market will do the following in the next 2 weeks
        rise                                                            1
        fall                                                            0
        .com bubble will burst and housing will again be affordable     1
        stay in the same range as now, little up/down                   1
        \_ summary: the bay area sucks. leave after graduation, and you
           can spend your smaller salary on a superior lifestyle.
        \_ The .com bubble bursting won't make housing affordable.  All the
           .com people in the bay area won't suddenly vanish over night.  This
           is the theory/prayer of the poor (under $125k total income).  Forget
           it.  Since the spring down turn, housing prices have continued to
           _rise_.  Housing prices are based on supply/demand more than on .com
           cash which is another semi-myth.
                \_ You're not gonna buy a decent HOUSE earning only $125K!
                   You need some one-off stock options.
                \_ Under $125k?? ouch. How expensive of a house can you get for
                   that income anyway?
                   \_ How far do you want to push it?  Get a really expensive
                      loan and pay some high rates and you can go to $650.  If
                      you're not insane, you can do $400k without losing sleep.
                \_ There will continue to be *need* for housing if there's
                   a stock market crash.  In economic terms, "demand" is
                   the combination of "need" and "willingness/ability to pay".
                   So while a stock market crash won't necessarily reduce the
                   need for housing, it will reduce the demand.
                   I think it's unlikely prices will significantly drop,
                   however.  The first thing that will happen is a reduction
                   in over-bids, and then houses will start to stay on the
                   market at lot longer at current listing prices.  There's
                   a lot of slop there to take out before anyone will start
                   cutting prices on houses.   -tom
                   \_ Going from 1 day on-market-to-sale to 7 days on-market-
                      to-sale is still way out there especially compared to the
                      rest of the country where 6+ months isn't unusual and the
                      bid is almost always under asking, not over, and usually
                      includes non-cash incentives from the _seller_.
                \_ so under what condition will housing again be affordable?
                   \_ How about a nice game of Global Thermonuclear War.
                        \_ At which point housing goes to those with the most
                           functional weaponry.
                   \_ None really.  There are always more people but God isn't
                      making more land.  Historically speaking, housing prices
                      _always_ rise.  Yes, there are periods of ups and downs
                      but overall, especially in the bay area, housing will
                      continue on the upward slide to infinity.  The cheaper
                      housing just moves further out and there's a very limited
                      amount of 'core' housing (ie: close to SV and/or SF).
                      Think of this, a new home in East Palo Alto, the recent
                      murder capitol of the country (or was it world?) will run
                      $400k to $450k _and_ you have to *compete* to get it.  In
                      short, don't hold your breath.
                        Housing prices have already stopped rising.
2000/5/10 [Industry/Jobs, Finance/Investment] UID:18224 Activity:nil
5/10    If anyone is interested in working in Tokyo, there are several
        positions available at Nikko Salomon Smith Barney as follows.
        * DBA
        * Web Based System Developer
        * System / Marketing Support - Bond Portfolio Analysis
        * Tokyo Fixed Income Application Support
        * Asst. Project Manager for Multi-Currency Project
        * Control / Data Security Program Controller
        * Systems Analyst/Programmer Financial Systems - Treasury
        * Programmer / Analyst - Trade Support
        * General Accounting Developer
        Details are in http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~yumin/nssb
        \_ Heh.
           *  Soralis, AIX, NT, C, JAVA, Perl, etc...
2000/5/8-9 [Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:18201 Activity:high
05/08   Costco no longer accepts Discover Card (only AmEx) is there any
        reason to keep the card now?
        \_ what's the deal with Amex Blue and their special "internet"
           chip, or something like that?  How does it work?
           \_ It's an advanced new technology known as marketing.  AmEx uses
              it to pitch cards with so-called "smart-chips" as the next big
              thing.  smart-chips are just small embedded processors in the
              card.  They don't do anything special.  They've been used in
              Europe for decades, but they never caught on here.  Grab a
              Streetspace card if you want to see one up close.  Otherwise,
              Blue is just a more traditional credit card issued by AmEx
              (pay over time instead of every month), with some decent anti-
              fraud measures in the legalese. -dans
              \_ I feel sorry for you if you ever have to depend on AmEx's
                 anti-fraud measures because you're going to be raked over
                 the coals; I especially like how they send replacemet cards
                 to people impersonating you at different addresses since
                 they have to claim to be so convenient for travelers
              \_ Is that smart-chip thing the same as what's called SIM card
                 in Europe, like the ones used in cell phones?  -- yuen
                 \_ Same idea, but different card and chip.  The main
                    advantage with smart chips is that you can store much more
                    data on the chip than you can on a magnetic stripe.  Of
                    course, there are also clever uses for the chip's
                    processing capagilities as well, but nothing THAT clever,
                    processing capabilities as well, but nothing THAT clever,
                    which is part of the reason they never really caught on.
                        \_ Dan is almost right.  Smart cards != regular
                           chip cards.  Smart card = microprocessor +
                           storage with external power source, chip card
                           is usually just storage (cash cards, etc.)  Smart
                           cards are generally used to store small
                           applications or authentication algorithms, and
                           they're in quite frequent use over here.  The
                           problem is that no single US credit card outfit
                           has seen fit to sponsor C-SET or a similar
                           chip-based security mechanism due to costs, over
                           the current SET (secure electronic exchange)
                           transaction "security".  Cf. French credit cards
                           which would be far more secure, except that
                           they use antiquated, crackable chip tech.  -John
                           \_ *And* they're _French_.  And we all know what
                              _that_ means!
        \_ I think Discover Card offers cash rebate.  (I don't have one.)
           -- yuen
        \_ Costco accepts AmEx now, right?
                \_ Yes, and ATM
2000/4/14-15 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:18011 Activity:nil
4/14    When I purchase company stocks with 15% discount through Employee
        Stock Purchase Plan, is the 15% difference considered capital gain
        subject to short/long term capital gain tax when I sell the stocks?
        \_ of course it is. Your capital gain is the price you sold minus
           the price you paid.
           \_ I thought the 15% is considered regular income?  No?
        \_ I read in the San Jose Mercury News that Congress is trying to pass
           a law to try to tax that 15% percent.  This was 6 months ago.
        \_ The laws are complicated for this stuff.  There is some effort in
           Congress to simplify the law (read: tax you more), but this is the
           basic idea:
           1) If you sell the stock too quickly, it is a disqualifying
           disposition, and you have to pay taxes as ordinary income.  (For me,
           that's within two years of the grant date of the stocks, and I assume
           it's two years for you, but don't know.)
           2) After that, it gets more complicated.  Our literature says: "you
           will recognize as ordinary income an amount equal to the lesser of:
           a)  The excess of the amount you realize upon the sale of the stock
           (Sale Price) over the price (Purchase Price) you paid for the stock;
           or b)  15% of the Grant Date Value."  Yeah, it's complicated.  Your
           company should be able to give you specifics.  -emarkp
          \_ I sold a bunch of ESPP stocks last year for a down payment of
             a new car. I'm going to be paying bazillions in taxes this year
             due to the fact that (yes, Virginia) capital gain is calculated
             according to your purchase price (i.e. incl the 15% discount) and
             your sale price. If you buy ESPP stocks every month (assuming you
             do) through automatic deduction, you need to keep track of how
             much you buy and when. Luckily, your latest ESPP statement should
             have all that. If you use TurboTax, it will ask you to enter
             EVERY single one of purchase transaction. Just punch in the
            numbers and it'll calculate it for you. OH, and one more thing,
             in addition to the 20% cap gain tax (if you didn't sell until
             after a year of purchase) you will get hit by CA state tax since
             proceed of your sale is treated as ordinary income. Sucks huh??
2000/4/14-15 [Reference/History, Finance/Investment, Recreation/Humor] UID:18010 Activity:moderate
4/15    Cool!  my stocks have split a few times in the past month!!!!!!
        \_ ... or did the price suddenly drop by 1/2?
           \_ It was a joke.
              \_ ... so was the reply.
                \_ no, the reply was some moron like tpc saying "hey I got
                   the joke!  Ha ha!"  -tom
        \_ I'm up 2 today.  Thanks.
2000/4/11-12 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Finance/Investment] UID:17970 Activity:moderate
4/10    Do any of you know any way (even 133+ registry h4kz) to get
        Win98 Second Edition to alphabetize the fucking folders in the
        start menu?  I can see how to change the order of the individual
        sub-menus, but not the overall one.  --sowings
        \_ Do you mean the first menu that opens after pressing the Start
           button, or the Programs menu?
        \_ I don't think you can change the first menu (the one with Shutdown
           and Run...), but all menus after that are alphabetizable like all
           other submenus.
           \_ No, they don't, and that's the problem.  Note that I said
              Second Edition; it behaves differently.  --sowings
              \_ My OEM 98 SE copy works correctly.  You're right-clicking and
                 dragging right?
              \_ I have 98SE. Right clicking and selecting "Sort By Name"
                 does the trick. Yes, this is on the first menu from Programs.
2000/4/6-7 [Finance/Investment] UID:17943 Activity:nil
4/6     What exactly does it mean when Dow/NASD is up/down by X points?
        Is there an actual equation (e.g. sum(all shares*value)/companies
        multiplied by a constant) or it is a measurement of something else,
        like volume+share???
        \_ See^dji for DJIA components.  The
           DJIA is the weighted sum of these components, scaled to a reference
           point of 100 some time in the 1920's.  I don't know the weights of
           the individual component.   The NASDAQ Composite Index is similar.
           the individual components.   The NASDAQ Composite Index is similar.
2000/3/27-28 [Finance/Investment] UID:17870 Activity:high
3/27    Is it easy to manage half shares and fractional shares in E*Trade?
        \_ Go buy a full block like everyone else you pennyless wimp.
                \_ too many assumptions: What if the company gets bought
                   out and gets exchanged for a fractional amount of shares
                   in another company?  (which happens to be the case).
                   Or a DRIP system?
2000/3/16-17 [Finance/Investment] UID:17774 Activity:nil
3/14    Do some of you still invest in "old economy" stocks?
        \_ I do.  WAG.  Dropped 25% over the past year. :-(
           \_ I do.  ANN (Ann Taylor).  Not too shabby if bought it
                2, 3 weeks ago.  Had a loser too: TYC.
        \_ do people still believe in Warren Buffett? (brkb, brka)
           \_ You mean the stock that's ~$70k per share last year?
                \_ yes, Berkshire Hathaway Class A shares.
                \_ You mean the one that dropped 40% in the last year?
        \_ I do. ALK. Finally popped today and is up 15%. SRE (utility)
           which has done nothing, but that is what I expected of it.
           Some bank stock which is down 10% even with todays jump.
           Diversity is good, which the last few days have shown.
           I probably don't see the huge gains you pure tech investors
           see though.
                \_ I think a balanced tech and non-tech portfolio is best
                        these days.
                        \_ Geeze, just go get an index fund or buy bonds.
                           What's the point otherwise if you're barely making
                           more than a BofA savings account?
                                \_ didn't mean balanced = 60% stocks, 40%
                                        bonds.  I meant around 50% high
                                        tech stocks, 50% non-high tech stocks
2000/2/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:17648 Activity:very high
        \_ Corrected for grammar and punctuation.
                \_ Update: corrected for proper tabbing.

god damnit i hate hearing ppl who know nothing about cars rant about cars
\_ I suppose you think current designs are good enough? A change as
   simple as converting to diesel would easily give 60-70mpg with no
   compromises (other than using the more smelly diesel)
        \_ Is diesel harder on the environment in any way?  -ignorant
           \_ Currently, higher NO2 emissions, due to high sulfur content
              in diesel mixtures. However, that's just a matter of
              developing a better mixture. Synthetic diesels are much
              better. Also, diesel requires less refining than gasoline,
              so (should be) much cheaper when economies of scale kick in.
\_ so shuddap yerself
\_ This is because they don't RIDE BIKE! enough. This is my theory and I am
   sticking to it.
        \_ This makes no sense what-so-ever.  If they RIDE BIKE! more, then
           they would know more about cars, or they would rant less about
           cars?  Either way, it makes no sense.  Please go to your academic
           advisor and withdraw from school immediately.  You're dragging
           down the curve.

\_ If I want to give someone some stocks as a surprise gift, how do I go
   about it?   Do I need to ask my broker (online broker) to issue me
   stock certificates in the gift recipient's name, and then send those
   to them?  Can they just then send the stock certificates to their
   broker, and have it deposited in their account?  Thanks.
   \_  gee, what an exciting gift.  i would be so overjoyed to get stocks
       as a gift.  wow.
       \_ Obungratefulprick
       \_ You may not like it, but I know my aunt and uncle would.  It's
          not like I don't send them flowers and other stuff.  But really
          it's none of your business if you have nothing to offer.
  \_  i don't know.  things like that are just NG.  i mean, you wouldn't
      ever give that to your girlfriend on valentine's day or her b-day,
      so why here?   it's about as fun as getting underwear or boxes of
      polident on christmas.......well, do whatever.
      \_ Thanks for your concern.  No, I won't give my girlfriend
         stocks on Valentine's day.  My uncle and aunt however enjoys
         playing the stock market, and we exchange stock tips.  As for
         any social convention of not giving monetary-type gifts, I
         am close enough to my aunt and uncle that it does not matter.
         My uncle and aunt also have rather particular taste so it's
         not easy to buy gifts for them (they would appreciate it,
         but if they don't use it, it's wasteful for everyone).
         Sometimes I get good ideas, but not all the time.  This time
         the good idea happens to be stocks, even though you disapprove.

   \_ Yes. you'll probably have to pay a small charge to the broker tho.
        \_ E-mail or call your online broker. They'll probably have a form
        for you to fill out. I know with <DEAD><DEAD> they don't charge you to
        have certificates issued to you or anyone else.
        \_ Thanks!  I already requested a form online.  My online broker
           E*trade charges $5 (one more reason to switch)

killroy was here.  emacs user nuked.

emacs user was down here too
2000/2/22-23 [Finance/Investment] UID:17584 Activity:high
2/21    Can commissions charged by stock brokers be claimed as investment
        \_ your commission is part of your cost basis.  -tom
           \_ so what you're saying is
              Capital gains = selling price - buy price - (comissionx2)
              \_ No times 2. The cost basis is what you actually paid total.
                 \_ exactly, pipsqueak. 1xbuy, 1xsell
                        \_ 1xbuy + 1xsell = commisionx2 only if you pay the
                           same commission both times.  In many cases (not
                           discount brokerages) you won't.  The correct formula
                                gains = (sales price - cost to sell)
                                        - (buy price + cost to buy)
                        \_ Not if you make more than 1 buy transactions.
2000/2/13-15 [Computer/SW/Unix, Finance/Investment] UID:17501 Activity:high
2/13    Brokerage gave me several times more money than I deposited.  While
        I'm telling them about it, what can the brokerage do if I neglect
        to tell them (not checking account status for a year for example,
        and not realizing it.)
        \_ try it and see
        \_ Use it to buy some hot stocks and pocket the earnings.
        \_ even if you didn't tell them about it, someone out there would
           be missing that money that they tried to put into their account
           so this mistake wouldn't go unnoticed for too long
        \_ Generally what has happened in the past is they figure it out and
           pull the money from your account.  If the money is gone, you owe
           them the money and they will pursue you for it.  They have the law
           on their side on this one.  I suggest leaving it there for now
           unless it was so much money it would be worth cashing out and
           fleeing the country.
                \_ I wonder what they'll do if the money is invested
                        in a hot stock, it goes up a decent amount.
                        Will they take out only what was put in?  Or will
        \_ Cool!! Which brokerage was it?
        \_ Call 60 Minutes re: your situation
                        they take any gains which were achieved by using
                        that money?
                        \_ Just the money put in minus the interest, not the
                           value you increased it by.  This is an interesting
                           hypothetical but I wouldn't do it.
        \_ My account had $4000 too much in it once. I left it in there
           and about two weeks later they fixed the error and sent me a
           letter explaining that they were withdrawing money and why. --dim
        \_ A similar thing happened to me.  I didnt realize it until 3
           months later, since I never check my statements (as long as
           its close, i dont care).  I still have the money. Closed the
           account with them 6 years after.  I purchased a used Lexus
           with it about 8 years ago while still in college.
                                     \_ Man, I feel for you. Fuck off.
        \_ You should not tell them about it, just let them discover it
           themselves.  The last time I told payroll about double income
           deposited, they deducted twice the amount.  Till this day
           I could not recover my 401k portion - lost in some bureaucratic
           \_ That's what the ping of death is for! Are we there yet?
                 Are we there yet? Are we there yet?Are we there yet?

emacs user was here
\_ not this again...
cat user was here
sed user was here
yermom was here
angband user was here
2000/2/7-8 [Finance/Investment] UID:17452 Activity:high
2/8     I'm looking at various online brokerages.  Which ones are all of you
        using and why?  Any I should avoid?  I'm mostly doing stock trades
        but not hyper active minute by minute day trading.  Thanks!
        \_  They give ratings to them.
           Personally, E*trade seems the most balanced.
          \_ ask tom and aaron how much they love etrade --oj
                \_ Or ask me.  They've got incompetent customer service.
                   E-Trade sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls. -mogul
                \_ etrade sucks..."money goes in but it don't come out" -tom
                        \_ it's called "re-investment," twink.
                         \_ No, it's called "2 months+ to transfer out" --oj
          \_ Etrade has current deal with Microcenter:  open Etrade and get a
             $300 coupon @ Microcenter.  See
             \_ How does ETrade afford that?  There are long lines in the
                Santa Clara store every weekend since November.  (The rebate
                used to be $400.) -- yuen
                \_ Volume?  :)  Yes, the rebate lowered at start of Feb.
                \_ I use schwab. Okay I know, some ppl think it sucks and
                   very expensive but I was getting some Delta Airlines miles
                   back then (the offer has expired). But their website seems
                   to be pretty good. TD Waterhouse is also equally good.
                   \_ I had schwab while I was at Cal, but after graduating
                      I switched to National Discount Brokers (
                      They are pretty good and their prices are cheaper than
                      schwab. They also have check writing for your money market
                      account, wire transfer with your bank's checking account,
                      and the largest selection of no-load mutual funds.
        \_ Has anyone traded with Datek?  Advice, suggestions, experience,
           etc.?  Thanks -dans
        \_ Motley Fools run a website that has a Review of various online
           discount brokerages. They also maintain a message board
           specifically for this purpose, where you will learn that:
           a) Suretrade SUCKS b) E-Trade can SUCK too sometimes, etc.
           Check out - jthoms
2000/2/3-4 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:17416 Activity:high
2/2     According to McCain, he's for Social Security and "paying down
        the debt."  When we pay down the debt, who benefits the most?
        IN other words, who holds certificates to our nation's debt?
        \_ The CHILDREN.  Won't somebody *please* think of the CHILDREN!
        \- er, i think you are misunderstanding what this means. the
        alternative to paying down the debt isnt defaulting. paying down the
        debt really means you will slow down the rate of issuing new debt.
        you have to finance deficit spending either by borrowing [in which
        case the govt competes with private industry for savings, raising the
        cost of money, i.e. the itnerest rate] or the govt can print money, an
        option not open to a private individual/firm, but not totally free
        for the govt either, since paying back with inflated dollars is kind
        of a partial defualt. quite a bit of US treasure instruments are
        held by foreigners, btw. --psb
        \_ I think you are misunderstanding the question. The person asked
           who will benefit by the paying off of the National debt, not
           what effect it would have upon any (hypothetical) future deficit
          \_ #1 holder of US Treasury products is Americans.  Japanese #2.
                        I think Chinese have recently started buying huge
        \_  Why do you think that the Gov't's lenders want to be paid
            back instead of continuing to be paid interest?  And remember,
            this is money they already gave the Gov't.  Right now I think
            $200G goes to paying iterest on our debt.  How much does our
            military cost?  --PeterM
                        \_  My point (admittedly unclear) about the military
                            is that the interest on our debt could go a long
                            way to paying the military budget.  --PeterM
                \- if you look at debt/GDP for the us, the number isnt too bad.
                the problem here isnt high debt, but extrmemely low private
                savings rate. --psb
                \_ You want to dump the military?  Which foreign language
                   would you prefer to learn to talk to your new leaders?
                   \_ Japanese! :-)
                        \_ right. in japan, you'd be lucky to find people to
                        openly express themselves in public conversation like
                        \_ thats why I like it. And no more stupid
                           "gay marriages" either.
                          \_ If you want to live in a cultural clam shell, go
                             there.  No reason to destroy this country when
                             Japan is only a plane flight away.  To each his
                          \_ No tipping!  Schoolgirl panties in vending
                             machines!  It's a utopia!
                                \_ And blue dots on all the pr0n.
                                  \_ Blue Dots are Artistic, or something. --oj
                                        \_ Pubic hair is banned.  Rape is ok.
                   with nukes at our disposal? The age of true tactical warfare
                   on a large, sustained scale are long gone. Red Storm Rising
                   will never occur in an age of easy and cheap nuclear armament.
                   \_Screw the military, we have nukes, who's gonna invade us
                     with nukes at our disposal? The age of true tactical
                     warfare on a large, sustained scale are long gone. Red
                     Storm Rising will never occur in an age of easy and cheap
                     nuclear armament.
                        \_ You're neither funny, nor clever, nor a good troll.
                   \_ You're an idiot.  Or this is a weak troll.  Or both.
                      Either way, there's no point in providing a serious
                      reply.  No military = pick your new foreign leadership.
                   \_ We should take all the welfare cases, issue them with
                      little mind control helmets, and give them all backpack
                      nukes.  That would rewl.  Also, we should get rid of all
                      our tanks and buy a few hundred thousand Daihatsu Grand
                      Moves (the really narrow minibuses that always tip over)
                      and put Davy Crockett XM-28 recoilless atomic cannon on
                      the top of them and fill them with TNT and have these
                      massive swarms of little stupid-looking minibuses
                      with bigfoot tires chewing up the countryside lobbing
                      rapid-fire atomic munitions at the enemy before ramming
                      them in a blaze of glory.  We'll get rid of INS and
                      customs/border patrol too, and replace them with massive
                      300-deep belts of of B-54 SADM nuclear land mines.  We
                      will take care of our strategic interests by building
                      a titanic post-hole digger and dropping massive amounts
                      of nuke silos in the entire midwest, side-by-side.
                      Problems with Iraq?  Send 'em a few Minutemen IIs for
                      fun.  China acting up?  Santa's bringing a bag full
                      of Titans with 20MT warheads to Peking.  All US-flagged
                      vessels will be replaced with TridentIII subs (let the
                      cruise-line geezers swim) and all US air carriers will
                      be required to replace their planes with B-70s, for
                      extra impressive value.  Slim Pickens for president!
                      Nukular Fucking Weapons!  We'll be invincible!    -John
                   \_ You're an idiot.  Or this is a weak troll.  Or both.
                      Either way, there's no point in providing a serious
                      reply.  No military = pick your new foreign leadership.
                        \_ John, you my hero.
                        \_ Oh My God John I just creamed my shorts.  I wish
                           I wrote that.                -brain
                        \_ Funny how I knew this was John by line 2.  I got
                           as far as "mind control helmets".
                \_ I would totally LOVE to keep and save all the money that the
                   social security system is taking away from me to squander
                   on  the retirees of today.
                        \_ You get your turn when you're retired to screw the
                           children and grand children of the people who are
                           screwing you now.
                           \_  Unfortunately, I am of post-babyboom and
                               pre-echoboom, meaning that I get screwed
                               and when I try to screw, they have the
                               numbers to share the burden.  Maybe that
                               means I will have a comfortable retirement
                               even if I spend all my money today.
                                \_ Me too and no we won't because the 'echo
                                   boomers' are going to make sure there's lots
                                   of SS money in place before they get there.
                                   They'll outnumber the old geezers.  We'll be
                                   fine.  SS isn't the kind of program that can
                                   be changed over night and it isn't going
                                   away any time soon.
        \_  Pay down the debt = interest rates go down, bonds are less
            attractive (capital is cheaper), money is distributed to more
            efficient uses (ie. capital) ...  Virtually every credible
            economist, including Greenspan, supports paying down the
            debt before taxes.  The benefits of paying down the debt
        assumption of 1.5% average annual growth rate, which is way conservative.
        The average for the century (with Great Depression and all) is something
        like twice that, not to mention current growth rates...
            outway lower taxes.
                \_ Too bad we do neither to any great degree.
        \_ Ah, the sound of young impressionable minds soaking up libertarian
        propaganda. Government debt is not like yours or mine. Most of the
                           lack of a name in an inherintly anonymous forum.  I
        government debt is owned directly or inderectly (eq via pension funds)
        private individuals. So, we have a bunch of ordinary Americans repaying
        another bunch of ordinary Americans. Who exacly is getting a better deal
        - the lenders or the borrowers is, as usual, far from clear.
        The very popular study of Social Security going broke is based on the
        assumption of 1.5% average annual growth rate, which is way
        conservative.  The average for the century (with Great Depression and
                             \_ Oops, sorry I wrote that.  -- ilyas

        all) is something like twice that, not to mention current growth
        Does the above poster imply that "Greenspan supports lower interest
        rates"? (simple transitivity) The way I understand Federal Reserve's
        current approach is that they see issuing government paper as primarily
        an instrument of monetary policy, not fiscal policy. -muchandr
        \_ Hey Muchkin, I never had a chance to ask what your political views
           were. -- ilyas
           \_ Then don't. Not on the motd.
              \_ Hey, the man isn't stupid, he can write me.
                 And sign your name.
                 -- ilyas
                 \_ What's up with the obsession with signing one's name?  If
                    they wanted to they would have in the first place, duh.
                    \_ Coward. -- ilyas
                        \_ G-duh! You're such an idiot.  "Anyone who doesn't
                           post everything with their real name like me is a
                           coward!!!!  -ilyas".  Sheesh, you and Tom.  At least
                           Tom is mature enough now to stop drooling over the
                           anon posters and dismissing them entirely merely for
                           lack of a name in an inherently anonymous forum.  I
                           suspect it'll take you even longer to grow up since
                           you're clearly less intelligent than Tom.
                           \_ It's 'inherently.'  And the motd isn't inherently
                              anything.  You can choose to sign your name and
                              stand by your words like me, or Tom, or psb or
                              you could just be an anonymous bombardier whose
                              words don't carry any weight. -- ilyas
                             \_ Anonymity does not make the words any less true.
                                And signing one's name doesn't make the words
                                any more true.  You're a perfect example of
                                the latter.  You sign everything yet your words
                                signify nothing.  Numerous anonymous people
                                here have provided a lot of useful and accurate
                                information.  Anonymity has nothing to do with
                                the quality or value of the contribution.  And
                                yes the motd is inherently anonymous as there
                                is no signing requirement or method to enforce
                                such a thing.  The default is anonymity.  If
                                you choose otherwise, that's nice, but not at
                                all relevent to anything.
                                \_ If they signify nothing then replying is
                                   a waste of time.  At any rate, I am of the
                                   opinion that truly tasteful flaming has to
                                   have a name behind it.  God knows there are
                                   lots of people I don't like, and I never
                                   had a problem telling them this to their
                                   face.  -- ilyas
                                   \_ I'm glad you're happy being a loutish
                                      boor.  The rest of us try to get along
                                      and mostly shut the fuck up when we don't
                                      like someone because telling them so won't
                                      improve matters and often makes it worse.
                                      And what does tasteful flaming have to
                                      do with anything?  Feeling like a topic
        \_ Since low private savings rate is considered a problem, what are
           are some approaches to increasing the incentive for private
2000/1/24 [Finance/Investment] UID:17313 Activity:moderate
1/25    stock tips? anyone?
        \_ Since you live in a world which is one day ahead of ours, could
           you please send us tomorrow's copy of wall street journal so that
           we could make smarter moves on the stock market today? thanks.
        \_ Or maybe 2 years in advance so I don't have to pay taxes on the
           short term gains and daily transaction fees.  Looking forward to
           it, thanks.
2000/1/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:17282 Activity:nil 70%like:17281
1/20    So do people onsphider it okay to alter motd pot?  That is, not delete
        them butt change the text of some else's pot?
        \_ depends on the entertainment value.
        \_ people do yermom, but I don't think its right
2000/1/20 [Finance/Investment] UID:17281 Activity:nil 70%like:17282
1/20    So do people consider it okay to alter motd posts?  That is, not delete
        them but change the text of some else's post?
        \_ depends on the entertainment value.
        \_ people do it, but I don't think its right
2000/1/18-19 [Computer/SW/Security, Finance/Investment] UID:17263 Activity:high
1/18    Is E*TRADE FDIC insured?  Thx.
        \_ They are a brokerage not a bank. They have SIPC and backup private
           insurance. Read their web site. (BTW do you really want an account
           with E*TRADE? I haven't had an account there but heard their
           customer service is impossible. You might find this useful:
           \_ Very useful site.  Thanks.
           \_ I have an account with them. I've only had to ask one question
              but got a response within 24hrs. But that's just once, so take
              it as you will.
           \_I have had nothing but trouble w/ Etrade. It is hard to
             connect with them during the day, it takes days for them to
             respond to emails, and you have to wait >>>1h to talk to a
             customer service rep when you call. I prefer Datek, even
             though they offer fewer services.
        \_ E*TRADE is completely incompetent. They are awful. --aaron
           \_ How about
                \_ schwab has pretty good service.  Problem is their
                        commission costs for trades are pricey
        \_ Why do people use/need customer support that much?  I would
                think that once you get things setup, you don't need
                that much customer support
        \_ try doing a brokerage transfer.  -tom
2000/1/4-5 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17159 Activity:high
1/4     I want to do business with a financial services firm that's pretty
        new.  Is there a way to check if they're legit and won't take my
        money and run?  The company is not publically traded, it's a small
        LLC (limited liability company).  Anyway to check on such a firm?
        Thanks a lot.
        \_ Is it FDIC insured?
           \_ It's not FDIC insured.  I'm dealing with a hedge fund, and
              I'm not sure if the SEC is involved.
        \_ If they deal with securities, i.e. stocks and bonds, and they
           are not regulated by the SEC, then its NOT LEGIT
              \_ How do you come to know them? If you cant easily find
                 information about them, i'd be very wary.
                 Are they in Money or Fortune magazine?
                 Are you investing in the hedge fund or something else?
                 If the former, do they offer you such a big
                 "guaranteed" return that a more conventional (known)
                 firm cant help you?
                 Dont they give you a prospectus? brochure at least?
        \_ Check on the people who run it. Their history, background,
           experience.  Even check the BBB or the equivalent.
           Who licenses these firms? SEC?
        \_ Do a Dun and Bradstreet lookup.
1999/12/29 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:17117 Activity:nil
12/29   Just curious: any VA Linux stock owners who bought at market (290)?
        Down to ~176.
1999/11/24-26 [Finance/Investment] UID:16951 Activity:moderate
11/24   Can anyone recommend a good online stock trading site?  I heard
        about datek, is it any good?
        \_ I suggest you invest in futures. You can lose more that way
                \_ Pork bellies are my favorite.
                        \_ PPOOOOOORRRRKKKK!!!!! --oj
1999/11/22-24 [Finance/Investment] UID:16938 Activity:low
11/22   Does anyone know of a proxy-capable X11 stock ticker-type thing
        (such as Medved Quote Tracker?)  wmstock won't cut it...  -John
                \ In Java.
                  \ is an ISP.
                \_ Looked around a bit and found something called gstalker,
                   which looks pretty nice.  -John
1999/11/14-16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Finance/Investment] UID:16881 Activity:kinda low
11/14   My boss asked our team to implement a 1-3 line
        quote of the day on our corporate frontpage, like they do
        at  Looking it over, a new quote seems to be generated
        on browser reload.  Where do I go to get started?
        We are running stronghold on linux rh 6.1 - party like it's 1999
                   \_ It can be done in javascript also but you'd have to send
                      all the quotes (in an array, maybe) and pick one at
                      random.  This is the cheap and stupid way to do it but
                      it does put the cpu burden on the client side and any
                      moron web designer can change the quotes easily without
                      a triple-pay sys/webadmin to edit some html/javascript.
                      \_ Sounds like it would put the load on the pipe.
                         Sending the whole quote file each time you load the
                         page wouldn't work very well.
                         \_ Depends on how many quotes, but yes, the load is
                            on the pipe.  I was thinking along the lines of
                            maybe 1 or 2k of quotes, max, not some 500k+ file.
                            1k is pretty much a blip even on a 28k modem.
                                \_ Is there a way to find out how Forbes
                                   does their quote?
                                        \_ View source will tell you if it's
                                                javascript or something else
                                                client side.
                                        \_ follow the cracking route --oj
                                           \_ eye hax0red f0rbz fruntd0re.  eye
                                              d1d vews0rs 0n dem!!11
1999/8/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:16416 Activity:nil
8/26    Should the change amount of a stock equal to the difference between
        the closing price of a trading day and the closing price of the
        previous trading day?  I'm looking at where today's closing price is
        higher than yesterday's but the change is negative.  Did I miss
        \_ Very good catch - Yahoo has incorrect data for Wednesday's close.
           Rite Aid actually closed at 22 7/8 on Wednesday, so the change
           was, in fact, 1 1/2 from Wed. to Thurs.
1999/8/26-28 [Finance/Investment] UID:16404 Activity:nil
8/26    Anybody ever gotten a paper stock certificate from a broker?  I'm
        thinking of giving some stock away as a gift, but I don't want to
        deal with all the transfering stuff, I'd rather give a piece of
        paper.  Does the stock certificate have your name on it?  Do I need
        to fill out extra paperwork to give it to someone as a gift?  Thanks.
        \_ On the back of the stock certificate, there should be a space
        for you to endorse the certificate to another person/party. By
        default certificates appear in the account holder's name, but
        you should be able to request that the broker issue the
        certificate in the name of the recipient.
1999/8/2 [Finance/Investment] UID:16226 Activity:moderate
8/2     After hearing from my friends on how well they are doing at the
        stock market and watching some realy cool E-Trade commercials,
        I've decided to take charge of my own finance. Which broker is
        good and reliable? E-Trade? Datek? AmeriTrade? Also, does anyone
        know the actual statistic for people getting rich via on-line
        trading? 50%? 70%? I've researched on and it seems
        that the stock market has no where to go but up up up!
        \_ I think it's more like 95-98&; at least that's what I heard
           in one of the chat rooms.
        \_ stock trading is legalized gambling. Assume, assume that
           no more than 50% of people currently trading actively
           (vs people putting money in mutual funds) "get rich".
           Now consider that those people tend to deal in "volatile stocks",
           and 9 out of 10 new businesses fail.
1999/7/31 [Finance/Investment] UID:16215 Activity:moderate
7/30    ETrade and datek seems to glorify average individuals taking
        charge of their finances. We always hear about people getting rich
        through on-line brokerage and day trades. But what is the actual
        statistic for people getting wealthy within a year or two?
        50%? 40%? What about the percentage of people who lose money?
        \_ patience, young grasshopper.  Buy MSFT and wait 10 years.  You
           too will be a millionaire.  --MSFT millionaire
           \_ Ah, yes.  MSFT -- the world's biggest pyramid scheme.
             \_ but if you feed the rats to the cats and the cats to the rats
                you get the catskins for free!
        \_ This last spring, I read an interview with a SV accountant who said
           35 of his 36 day trading clients lost money overall for the year.
           YMMV of course.
           \_ A friend had $19M of churn last year and made $50k.
                \-just out of curiousity, how much was the original stake and
                how many hours did he spend on this per week?
1999/6/9-12 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Finance/Investment] UID:15933 Activity:nil 55%like:15925
6/9     Looking to trade Starsiege: Tribes for a more strategic game.
        Preferably Starcraft/Broodwar.  I won tribes in an online
        give-away, but I don't play networked games much. -seidl
        \_ Are you willing to trade a "backup" copy?
        \_ maybe.  since I'm not using the game at all now.  I would
           like documentation though.  mail me and we'll talk.
           \_ WAREZ!
        \_ Yeah.. sure.. I'll trade you StarCraft, which requires the CD in
           the drive and the exclusive use of a license key for Tribes, which
           doesn't require the CD after installation and has no license key..
           \_ Starcraft runs with license key 1234567890123..whatever,
                except that you can't play <DEAD><DEAD> with it.  And assuming
                you don't have an ethical problem with warez hosing, there
                are plenty of key generators on the net.  -John
        \_ If you don't trust the person you're trading with, don't
           trade with them.  I have no interest in networked games right
           now (in fact, my PC currently has no way of connecting to the net
           except through floppy-net) -seidl
1999/5/24-25 [Finance/Investment] UID:15868 Activity:high
5/24    Anybody know of a site that offers non-split adjusted stock charts?
        It's almost impossible to see the historical prices for a stock like
        DELL or AOL because of the number of splits.  BigCharts doesn't do that
        BTW.  Thanks.
        \_ this is a tough stat to nail down.  You're probably better off
           computing market capitalization divided by number of shares, er
           or some other number
        \_  -- yuen
           \_ I knew that yahoo has table version of all the numbers. But
              I am looking for a graph of all the numbers.  Please don't
              say something like d/l the numbers and run it through gnuplot.
              I don't have time to do that for all the stocks I track.
                \_ Write a script and put it in cron and have it email you
                   the results or put them on a private web page.  Or don't
                   use cron if you only need it once.
1999/3/17-18 [Uncategorized/Profanity, Finance/Investment, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:15601 Activity:low
3/17    Or, as babelfish translates the motd.official:
        The soda is not for warezhosen or mailspammen. Is easy
        pissenoffen the rooten and overloaden barrier all with those fuck
        youen and those yer momen. Is not for trades with the
        majorfuckentwinken.  Diskhoggen pornseeren keepen that bandwit
        trousers hands in pockets must. Relaxen and watchen that barrier
        Flemings.  --dbushong
        \_ geek
           \_ No, geek is Eugene Kim
1999/3/16-17 [Finance/Investment] UID:15598 Activity:high
3/16    Anyone with experience with online trading? Is it reliable? Good?
        Bad? Is etrade all that?
        \_ if you hang out on the stocks newsgroups you'll find that etrade
           has by far the most complaints. I trade with DATEK and it's ok
           for light trading, but if you're into daytrading you definitely
           don't want to trade online, EVERY service has failed badly at one
           point or another.                            -nolram
        \_ etrade sucks.  waterhouse seems OK.
                \_ Waterhouse is good.  Only problem is you can't purchase
                   IPO stocks online.  I guess it's a safety feature to prevent
                   users from buying volatile stocks.
           \_ Etrade does NOT suck.  How often do you trade?  If you're a
              long term buy and hold type of investor that likes a lot of
              research and information and powerful features, then etrade is
              a good choice.  It's not the cheapest, but then again, do you
              want the cheapest?  You get what you pay for, you know.
              want the cheapest?  You get what you pay for, you know.  They
              have good connections in the industry so you have access to
              IPOs.  Take a look at to see independent rating
              on online brokers and banks.
              disclaimer:  I am an account holder AND an investor in etrade.
                \_ Etrade sucks if you ever attempt to call customer service.
                   I've also not found anything in the research which isn't
                   available and better organized at  I am
                   cancelling my e-trade account after they failed to send
                   me a brokerage transfer form after asking at least three
                   separate times and being told "it's in the mail".  -tom
           \_ Etrade crashes a lot
1999/3/8-9 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:15563 Activity:very high
3/8     Soda stock tip of the week:  CMGI.  It's red hot baby!  Up 47 1/2
        today.  Get in because this is the next EBAY!
        \_ get in now and your sure to lose your shirt, todays Internet stock
           rally was good news for the whole sector, but these specific
           stocks have seen their high for the immediate future. Beware the hype!
        \_ Yes.  Get in now that it's up 30%.  Makes sense.
        \_ Yet, another overvalued stock.
        \_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of options waiting to sell.
        \_ Makes me think that this guy has tons of CMGI options waiting to
        \_ CMGI closed at 199, EBAY closed at 171, why would you go out on a limb
           and speculate that CMGI will be the next EBAY when it's already
           worth more?
1999/1/11-12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Finance/Investment] UID:15210 Activity:high
1/11    I have a problem in telling elm to save outgoing messages.  It
        does not do it no matter how I change the relevant option field.
        \_ change your ~/.elm/.elmrc file
           \_ I did, it does not have any effect!
                \_ You lack fu.
1998/11/6-8 [Finance, Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14919 Activity:nil
11/5    So my friend works @ LinkExchange. Does that mean he's rich now that
        M$ bought them for $250M?
        \_ If he's the owner of LinkExhange then he's rich
           if he's just a worker, unless his boss's willing to give him a raise
           he won't be rich.  He may even lose his job if M$ decide not to use
           the old employees...
        \_ If he's the VP there, then he might be rich.  If he's a janitor
           there, probably not.
        \_ my boss (who's the Presid. of that other banner exchange co.)
           tells me LE was venture capital funded, so owners will probably
           get ~ 40% of that $.  It was the venture capitalists who were
           probably pushing hard for the sale.  Remember... the target is
           30 times your initial investment in 5 years if you're a venture
           capitalist. -jctwu
1998/10/26 [Finance/Investment] UID:14833 Activity:high
10/26   Anybody know if there are online magazines that accept essays,
        articles, commentaries, etc from anyone?  Particularly business
        articles.  I have written some commentaries op-ed pieces on the stock
        market and I'd like to see if they are good enough to be published
        online.  Thanks.
        \_ Is this flame bait?
1998/10/2 [Finance/Investment] UID:14720 Activity:high
10/1    So let's hope that Alan Greenspan doesn't bail any of John
        Merriweather's cronies out while he tries to undo the damage.
        I'm real tired of bad financial decisions and their consequences
        being separated.
                \-wow, how many of you know who john merriweather is. --psb
                        \_ My dad.  I mean my dad is John Merriweather.
1998/9/25-26 [Industry/Startup, Finance/Investment] UID:14672 Activity:high
9/25    salaried vs. contracting, which is better?
        \_ monthly wage vs. hourly wage. lots of benefits vs. minimal
           benefits. Same scene vs. constant change of scene. Of course,
           many other factors.
                \_ how about if i want to maximize cash income?
                   \_ Salary, with up to 20% into 401k (if you're talking
                      about maximizing over long-haul)
        \_ depends on the contracting company and how much they skim off
           (50-70% at Taos for instance) vs how many benefits they give
           (Taos is generous there by comparison to some)
           \_ 'give' is the wrong word for taos -- they 'offer' and you have
              to remember to go and take it.  Otherwise you get nothing...
           \_ I get 90K on salary or 150K on contract.  Which is better?
                \_ Salary.  They're paying health, various taxes, etc that
                you're sposed to pay both halves of on contract.
                \_ Nope.  Taxes are identical if you are W-2.
                \_ Contract is less stable.  If the company or economy is not
                   doing well, contractors are the first ones out.
                \_ Not always.  Schwab laid off 60 IS employees in '95, 0
                   contractors lost their jobs.
                   \_ that's cause the HR people at Schwab are absolute
                     MORONS. Them, and whaterver IS bigwig is linked to them.
                     (I've had a good look at the inside of Schwab. Not
                     a happy place)
                \_ Salary, there's potential to be rich with stock options
                   (if company is good).
                \_ Name one person you know personally who has hit it
                   rich with stock.
                   \_ *
                   \_ Most of my co-workers made hundreds of thousand in stock
                      options from the 1995-1996 stock waves.
                        \_ Real cash or just theory money?
1998/8/27 [Finance/Investment] UID:14521 Activity:nil
8/26    Anyone know about online stock trading companies' Mean Time
        Between Failure? Is there any information on downtimes NOT based
        on word-of-mouth?  - seano
1998/8/17-18 [Finance/Investment] UID:14464 Activity:very high
8/17    Dear Mr. Motd, I keep hearing about internet stocks..
        Are they a good investment?
          \_ Mr Motd, are you related to Mr Mott the barber on STTNG?
          \_ They're almost as good an investment as your local state lottery.
             \_ Wrong. With lottery, you have at least the chance to get rich.
        \_ 6 months ago.
        \_ Mr Motd, are you related to Mr Mott the barber on STTNG?
        \_ They're almost as good an investment as your local state lottery.
           \_ Wrong. With lottery, you have at least the chance to get rich.
           \_ Au contraire. if you had bought, say, search engine stocks
              about a year ago, you would have made a crapload of
              moolah. Similar results with ISP stocks. As with any
              stock, buy low, sell high.
              \_ how about "buy overpriced, sell way-overpriced"?
1998/5/21 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:14125 Activity:very high
5/21    I don't really know the first thing about money, but say you're a new
        grad getting 50k... after taxes and stuff, how much are you really
     \_ Here we go again....
        \_ not enough
       \_ less than everyone else on soda (except the UCB employees and the
                people who are still students)
        \_ After petty 401K and stock purchase plan and outrageous housing
           rates, I get about $15K year saving. And yes, I make 55K/year.
           \_ Does that include your 401K plan savings?  How much do you
              put in it in any case?
              \_ Put as much as your employer allows.  At the minimum, you
                 should put in enough to for the employer's match. -trustme
           \_ if you think you actually deserve more than $15K/yr savings
              by pressing buttons (i.e.: coding), you're high.
1998/5/21-6/12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Finance/Investment] UID:14122 Activity:nil 75%like:14095
05/13   Congratulations to the new Politburo for Summer and Fall semesters:
        The President: Devin Jones (jones), Vice President: Brian Gaeke (brg)
        The Treasurer: Jon Kuroda  (jon),  The Secretary: Mike Howard (mikeh)
                   The Librarian: David Bushong (dbushong)
1998/5/16-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Finance/Investment] UID:14095 Activity:nil 75%like:14122
05/13  Congratulations to the new Politburo, for Summer and Fall semesters 1998:
       The President, Devin Jones (jones) The Vice President, Brian Gaeke (brg)
       The Treasurer, Jon Kuroda  (jon)  The Secretary, Mike Howard      (mikeh)
                   The Librarian, David Bushong (dbushong)
1998/2/17-18 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:13687 Activity:high
02/17   I've lost a lot of $ in the stock market, and someone told me that I
        could claim "capital loss" for tax purposes. However, when I look at
        my W form, I don't see any loss figures. So how do I claim it?
                                                        \_ Hire a CPA.
        \_ you need to fill out a schedule D.  It has nothing to do with
          your W form.  And you can only claim 3000/year (but can carry
          over larger amounts to subsequent years.) And try not to
          trade so much in the future, you high roller, you.
          \_ I lost 4000... so how much do I get back? Also, where do I get
                \_ Depends on your income - and you're not "getting it back"
                   The government isn't covering your losses, just cutting
                   you a small break on your taxes.
             this schedule D? (btw I'm NEVER trading again)
               \_ Ask the IRS for a schedule D. Also, your 4000 loss must
              be subtracted from any long term gain you may have seen
             from your "trading" (and mutual fund distributions, if you
             have any).  BTW, this isn'r really the right forum for this
              -- but it'll get you started.  It's good that you are not
                \_ what's wrong with trading? i've made a shit load of money
                trading this year. you just gotta know what you are doing.
                \_ unless you are actively trading millions of dollars,
                  commissions and taxes will take a large part of your
                  big-shot gains.  That's all I meant.  And im sure you
                     just make so much money "trading" hot shot.
                  \_ i don't see how trading millions of dollars at a
                     time reduces the tax burden. but yeah, for most
                     people, investing is a much better idea.
                        \_ It doesn't.  You pay taxes at the end of the year
                           not on a per-transaction basis.  Also, if you're
                           trading that much your broker is probably giving
                           you a break, but you're definitely in the top tax
        \_ FUCK CONRAD
           \_ Who's Conrad?  Is he sexy?
             going to trade anymore.  Try _investing_ instead.
                  \_ well, if they're short-term losses, they're
                     subtracted from short-term gains.
1998/1/25 [Finance/Investment] UID:13561 Activity:nil
2019/12/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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