Consumer Camera - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2005/6/7-9 [Consumer/Camera] UID:38028 Activity:low
6/7     Using a 128 Meg sandisk compact flash card that I've had
        for a little over a year in a digital camera that I've had for
        nearly 7 years, I took a picture and when I went to look
        at it, it was corrupted as were a few images I had taken
        before.  Is it likely the fault of the card or the camera?
        Could it be that I switched the camera to the "view" mode before
        the camera had time to completely write the picture to the card?
        If the problem is likely with the card, will reformatting it help
        prevent this from happening in the future, or is it better to just
        use a new card?
        \_ what are we, psychic? experiment with it and see what happens.
           \- metadata or data corruption? there are some recovery softwares
              but frankly 1. format in the camera [not on PC] and take some
              test shots 2. if that is ok, then cross your fingers and hope
              it was transient problem 3. otherwise the replacement cost of
              a 128mb card is so low low [<$20], just get a new one and use
              that for "important" pictures.
        \_ Nice delete.  I've had this happen to me.  CF cards are cheap, get
           a new one.  -John
2005/5/26 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:37843 Activity:nil
5/26    Workarounds for problems on Canon DSLR w/ Lexar 80x CF cards:
2005/5/19-20 [Consumer/Camera] UID:37774 Activity:nil
5/19    DHL sucks = it means "Drop you shipment at the door, hope someone
        doesn't steal it, and then just leave"
        \_ Uhm, that's not terribly unique to DHL.
           \_ the way it matches their name is
           \- in the stealing scenario at least you should be covered.
              what pissed me off is when some shipper left a bunch of
              fast film on my doorstep on a 95degree day.
              \_ You are still using film are you saying? ;)
                 \_ Not the pp, but I still use film as well.  I actually
                    like being able to achieve different results with
                    different film.
                    \_ I mail-order film too, but I always ship it to my
                       work place.
                       work place.  I have a digital point&shoot, but I use my
                       two film SLRs for serious shooting.  -- !pp
                    \_ You can achieve different results with different
                       digicam settings (sensor sensitivity etc)
                       \- yes i know. i shoot digital and film. and you
                          achieve diff results shooting diff settings and
                          diff films. --pp
2005/4/21-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:37307 Activity:nil
4/21    Nikon announces D50, its new lowest end digital SLR.  I wonder how much
        the street price is going to be.
2005/4/10-12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:37136 Activity:moderate
4/10    My wife is taking a vacation and needs a portable digital photo
        storage device. She's not a technophile, so something easy-to-use
        would be great. Any recommendations? Thx enlightened MOTD-sters!
        \_ If you don't mind getting an iPod, check out the Apple iPod
           camera connector and the Belkin iPod media reader.
        \_ I don't understand why extra 256MB CF cards for $20 each can't
           satisfy her ... like you can, that is. -Hans
           \_ Seconded.  I've tried lugging around a laptop to store photos,
              and it's not worth it for a two- or three-week trip.  1G memory
              cards are $60 to $80 -- they're small, light, easy to use, and
              nearly indestructible.
        \_ If her camera uses CF get her 1 GB CF card or a 2 GB Micro
           drive. Unless she is shooting RAW w/ a 20D, this should be
           more than enough for a vacation.
        \_ [ follow-ups below reformatted - formatd ]
           I have an X-Drive II, it's small, and easy to use, it accepts all
          types of memory cards and you can upgrade the HD at any time.  If you\
          don't want to bother buying more and more memory cards I would suggest\
          something simmilar.  -scottyg
           types of memory cards and you can upgrade the HD at any time.  If
           you don't want to bother buying more and more memory cards I would
           suggest something simmilar.  -scottyg
           \_ Thx for the suggestion, scottyg.
              FYI, she has a Nikon D70 and will shoot in RAW format (big files).
           She already has a 1GB flash card (plenty for 1 day of shooting), but
           may need more storage for a 6+ week trip. I'll check out the X-
           Drive. Thx.
           \-if you are serious about photography, get a 50-100gig portable
              She already has a 1GB flash card (plenty for 1 day of shooting),
              but may need more storage for a 6+ week trip. I'll check out the
              X-Drive. Thx.
              \- if you are serious about photography, get a 50-100gig
                                                         \- actually even
                                                            20g may be ok.
             storage device. the "store everything on CF" is not reasonable
             for +1week. if you are very serious [meaning professional and
             if you lose the pictures, there will be serious problems, i.e.
             you need to backup or upload on the road], then you might
             consider the portable burners. it sounds like you are in the
             middle category. details like whether you are on the power grid
             or not, how much stuff you are carrying, theft probability also
             affect decisions on the margins. road trip through the southwest
             != high himalaya. if you are looking at something hardcore,
             go to like an REI and browse this:
    [worth a browse. unclear
             necessity to buy]. --psb,
                 portable storage device. the "store everything on CF" is
                 not reasonable for +1week. if you are very serious [meaning
                 professional and if you lose the pictures, there will be
                 serious problems, i.e. you need to backup or upload on the
                 road], then you might consider the portable burners. it
                 sounds like you are in the middle category. details like
                 whether you are on the power grid or not, how much stuff
                 you are carrying, theft probability also affect decisions
                 on the margins. road trip through the southwest != high
                 himalaya. if you are looking at something hardcore, go to
                 like an REI and browse this:
        [worth a browse.
                 unclear necessity to buy]. --psb,
                 \_ 50-100gb?!!! It's sad to see digital cameras promoting
                    "shotgun" photography.
                \- ok henri. the marginal cost of extra gb is really small.
                   if you need 20gb for a 2 week trip and next year you
                   might go on a 3 week trip with 2 cameras and by then
                   you have bought an 8mp camera, you might as well spend
                   the extra $1/gb upfront. on a recent photo trip i took
                   maybe 10 pictures of sunrise over the ganges. in the
                   evening i was shooting a religious festival on the
                   banks ... since people are moving i shot 70 or 80 pix
                   in maybe 15min. that's because everything is motion, so
                   you are sort of doing "compositional bracketing" rather
                   than exposure braketing. i still think there is some
                   difference with latency on digitals and more shots of
                   people seem to be mistimed. BTW: i took 500-600 digital
                   pix in ~4 days and 6 film shots. 4 or 5 of the film
                   shots are keepers while maybe 20 of the digitals. but
                   if i was shooting all film, i wouldnt have gotten maybe
                    \- ok henri. the marginal cost of extra gb is really
                       small. if you need 20gb for a 2 week trip and next
                       year you might go on a 3 week trip with 2 cameras and
                       by then you have bought an 8mp camera, you might as
                       well spend the extra $1/gb upfront. on a recent photo
                       trip i took maybe 10 pictures of sunrise over the
                       ganges. in the evening i was shooting a religious
                       festival on the banks ... since people are moving i
                       shot 70 or 80 pix in maybe 15min. that's because
                       everything is motion, so you are sort of doing
                       "compositional bracketing" rather than exposure
                       bracketing. i still think there is some difference
                       with latency on digitals and more shots of people
                       seem to be mistimed. BTW: i took 500-600 digital pix
                       in ~4 days and 6 film shots. 4 or 5 of the film shots
                       are keepers while maybe 20 of the digitals. but if i
                       was shooting all film, i wouldnt have gotten maybe
                       half the shots i did with the "digital shotgun". --psb
                       \- btw, i also use digital cameras as what you might
                          call a documentary device in addition to photography.
                          i might take a picture of a menu or a sign or a food
                          item just for informational value. --psb
                 \_ Isn't there a Compact Flash -> ipod interface doohicky
                    you can get?  Also, shotgun photography is a major
                    technique of National Geographic.  There is a reason
                    why their photographs are sooo good.
                    \_ I watched a NG special a fews ago and which gave
                       me the impression that most NG photographers are
                       still film. The ones that shoot digital probably
                       use something like a 1DS Mk2 w/ an L series IS
                       \_ you can do shotgun photography with film.  Most
                          good, serious photographers take a lot of photos.
                           \- it depends on what you are shooting. there
                              are a couple of schools of thought on this.
                              HCB is famous for deriding peopel for shooting
                              like crazy instead of looking for the "decisive
                              moment". but shooting in paris != shooting on
                              the african savannah. shotgun != bracketing.
        \_ check out Flashtrax products:
           Or Wolverine products (can buy at Fry's, $150 for 40GB).
2005/3/29-30 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36945 Activity:nil
3/29    Doesn't the UCB dean's office have a security camera or something?
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2005/3/14-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36680 Activity:nil
3/14    Is there a good website for mp3 reviews like
        \_ MP3s or MP3 players?
           \_ players
        \_ For players, do look at the Archos Gmini 440.  I just got
           one and it's teh r0xx0r.  -John
2005/3/9-10 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36595 Activity:high
3/9     I just watched "Bend it Like Beckham" last night, and I was
        wondering if anyone could tell me what's up with the scene where,
        during the wedding, a bunch of guys beat up the camera man and try
        to steal his camera.  What was up with that?
        \_ One of the guys involved in the scuffle was makin' out in the
           bathroom with that one girl, so I assume that was her bf.
           It did seem a rather random scene.
           \_ I just found this:
           \_ I just found:
              \- "there is always a fight at an indian wedding".
                 This is basically true. --psb
                 \_ Are you going to have a wedding like that psb?  Will you
                    invite me? -jrleek
                    \- I just sulk and skulk at indian weddings ...
                       \_ What are you wearing?
                 \_ Maybe in north indian weddings or non-bramhin
                    \- There is a funny line in monsoon wedding about
                       panjabis vs bengalis at wedding and such.
                        \_ I can't believe that you of all people
                           watch such trash
        \_ The coach in that movie is the biggest eurofag...
           \_ You now know what you need to do to attract chix.
              \_ Gah.  Do you think it's worth it?
2005/2/26-28 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36434 Activity:nil
2/26    Are there relatively cheap HD camcorders (<$10K) that can stream
        directly to a high-end (PCIe) PC?  I'm trying to see if the new
        Sony camcorder has this capability, but have not gotten any real
        \_ at the macworld keynote, steve jobs talked about a new really cheap
           ($3500) camera that does HD. not sure if it does what you want,
           but check it out.
2005/2/21-22 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36349 Activity:kinda low
2/21    Is there any reason to think that an older 2 megapixel digital
        camera would have trouble with a 1GB compact flash card?
        Previously, I've never used anything above 256Megs with it.
        Also, is the Ultra II Compact Flash any significant advantage
        over standard CompactFlash?
        \_ There are two different CF connectors; your older camera probably
           has a Type 1 connector, which might not work with your 1GB card
           or anything labeled "Ultra II".  CF cards vary in speed, check
           review sites.  -tom
        \_ How about with a 512M card?
        \_ You may encounter an ancient limitation : FAT 12-bit limits the
           number of files in each directory and root.
2005/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Consumer/Camera] UID:35995 Activity:moderate
1/31    Brain Washing 101
        \_ All that brainwashing, and he's still a knee-jerk dittohead.
           How depressing.
2005/1/28 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35947 Activity:high
1/28    Why do eyes turn red in photos, and how do you stop this from happening?
        \_ Your flash is reflecting off the back of people's eyeballs.
           Probably the best way to stop it is to use better lighting
           (don't flash directly into people's eyes).  It's probably better
           to remove it in Photoshop than to bother with your camera's
           "red eye reduction" feature (which pre-flashes a light to get
           people's pupils to constrict).  -tom
           \_ Why is the photoshop approach better? I think the red-eye
              pre-flash works fairly well. Not everybody is shooting digital.
              \_ Well, in my case the photoshop solution is going to be
                 perfect, since I'm not the one who took the pictures, but
                 I'm the person who'll end up putting them on the web.
                 Thanks to all who replied.  This was interesting. -op
              \_ It uses battery, is more intrusive to the subject, and
                 doesn't really solve the problem.  -tom
              \_ It causes delay between pressing the shutter release and the
                 shutter actually releasing, because the camera has to allow
                 time for the subject's pupil to contract.  Some subjects
                 get confused thinking that the picture is already taken when
                 the pre-flash fires, so they start moving before the shutter
                 is released.  -- yuen
        \_ Red eye also depends on where the flash is located relative to
           the lens.  The closer the flash is to the lens the more likely
           you'll get red-eye.  This is because of the angle the light is
           reaching your eye.  A cool camera like the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-T1
           is terrible for indoor picture taking because the flash is right
           next to the lens.  The best way to avoid red-eye is to have the
           flash as far away from the lens as possible, the like the snap on
           flash bulbs that sit high above the lens creating a downward angle
           flash, thus avoiding red-eye.
           \_ of course the problem with flasth far away from the lens is odd
           \_ of course the problem with flash far away from the lens is odd
              shadowing effect you can get from the primary light source being
              at an odd angle.
              at an odd angle.  Hence the flash diffuser 'umbrella' used by the
              \_ You get odd shadowing from hard light.  The umbrella thing
                 is for diffuse light.  Ideally, for pictures of people's
                 faces, you bounce some light from another angle to soften
                 shadows more.
        \_ Somewhat related, I think I heard on CSI or something like that
           only living people will have red eye because it has something to
           do with the living pigments (or something  in your eye.
           Dead people won't get red eye.
           \_ Maybe because dead people's blood isn't red anymore after the
              oxygen in the blood is gone?
        \_ The best indoor flash pictures are taken by bouncing the flash
           off the ceiling. You get more natural light photos of ppl that
           way. Might need to adjust the color if the ceiling isn't white.
        \_ take pictures of Asian men/women only. Problem solved. And IMHE
           the people who have the reddest eyes are my Bulgarian friends.
           \_ That's because they're drunk.
2005/1/17-18 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:35748 Activity:kinda low
1/17    What's a good photo printer to get these days?  Willing
        to spend from $150 to $500000.
        \_ Canon Pixma. They are a new line and start at $100 I think.
        \_ Canon Pixma. They are a new line and start at $100000 I think.
        \_ Costco or Walmart.
           \_ How do the printers at Costco work?  The printout looks and feels
              like traditional photos.  Are their printers inkjet or laser?  Or
              do the printers actually shine light on real photo paper?  The
              printout from my Epson Stylus Photo 1200 looks good, but it looks
              pretty obvious that it's not traditional photo even though I'm
              using some so-called photo paper.
              \_ They are using standard photo printers that cost thousands of
              \_ They are using standard photo printers that cost billions of
                 dollars.  Same process as traditional photos.  So you can
                 either invest in a printer, or pay $0.20 per print at Costco.
                 \_ Don't standard photo printers print from negatives (shine
                    light thru negatives on unexposed photo paper)?  How do
                    they print from digital files?
                    \_ Just a guess--they use a thin lcd panel and project
                       light through that.  Frankly I don't know, but the
                       process is great for my digital photos.
                    \_ Dye-sublimation? The Canon CP series are dye-sub
                       with a clear coating. Very similar to "real"
                       photo prints.
                    \_ These days many photo labs print all digitally.  All
                       films get scanned by their professional printers.
                       Oh, and the Epson R series with 8 inks are supposed to
                       be really good.  I'm waiting for the wide format version
                       of the R series to come out this year.  I think the R
                       series is in direct competition to Canon Pixma series
                       someone mentioned above.
                 \_ Last I checked they charged $0.17/print.
2005/1/13-14 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:35688 Activity:kinda low
1/12    I got a refurbished digital camera (Canon A60) with no CF.  It only
        zooms in one direction.  Should I return it already or should I buy
        a CF to see if that solves the problem (weird if it does)?
        \_ Return it.
        \_ My Canon S330 (similar age) can zoom and do everything but take a
           picture if there's no CF.  It sounds like a lemon to me.
        \_ What's CF?  Continuous focusing?
           \_ Compact Flash (memory card)
           \_ Cyber Fuck, you moron.
2005/1/7-8 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/SW/Apps] UID:35585 Activity:low
1/7     I'm trying to digitally restore a very old color photo.  I need to
        * Retouch scratches
        * Increase color saturation
        * Adjust brightness and contrast and hue ('Levels' in photoshop)
        What is the best order of operations here?  I can see spending several
        hours on this image and want to get it right the first time.
        \_ Levels before color (adjusting the levels will mess with your
           color saturation).  I don't think it'd matter much when you fix
           the scratches. --jameslin
        \_ Increase color saturation before retouching scratches, otherwise any
           artifacts from retouching the scratches will be magnified.  The
           same applies to Level if you're expanding the level ranges,
           otherwise the opposite applies.
           \_ I was thinking that too, but it'll only protect somewhat against
              artifact magnification.  If your monitor and printer aren't
              calibrated, for example, printing the picture might show
              artifacts you didn't see on the monitor anyway.  For retouching
              scratches I usually make a Levels adjustment layer with an
              insane gamma first so I can see potential artifacts, and then
              retouch the scratches on a layer below. --jameslin
2004/12/28-29 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35463 Activity:kinda low
12/28   Here is a camera question on other end of the spectrum.  I want a
        digicam to take nice pictures of things that I want to get rid of on
        ebay.  As cheap as possible w/o being crap.  I already know how to
        take pictures (I own 2 film SLRs but have lost interest in photography)
        Need: optical zoom, web sharp resolution, sturdy enough to be abused by
        11-year old kid.  ok tnx for your recommendation.
        \_ Just buy a low end digital camera. Just go to Fry's. I mean, c'mon
           do you really need a recommendation for a low-end camera when you
           can just hop over to Best Buy's, Fry's, etc. and plunk down $200
           for one?
           \_ Yes he/she does.  Minolta has ones with lenses built into the
              body (doesn't extend out) and are light and thin.  You can
              find one for < $200.  Search and sort by price.
              Canon is the choice for high-precision shots for the normal
              buyer, as person below notes.  Minolta's okay, but mobility is
        \_ You want the Canon EOS 1Ds-Mark II.
        \_ you have to be careful.  You need to think rather you need macro
           or not.  and... why you need optical zoom again?  Canon A400
           is a no-thrill camera, 2x optical zoom, takes ok picture, use
           standard AA bettery.  the downside is 1. thick (bulky), 2. no
           apature/shutter speed priority mode, and 3. lousy macro.
2004/12/25-27 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35437 Activity:low
12/25   Ok camera people: what's your 2 cents on the longevity of this "APS-C"
        format or whatever (the smaller sizes on cheap dSLRs). The best lenses
        still have the practical zoom range for full 35mm.
        \_ I wrote this 5-6 years ago
           \_ Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was referring to digital SLR sensor
              sizes. I did read this but it didn't really convince me either
              \_ personally?  I think the dSLR eventually going to full-frame,
                 36mm-24mm.  The reason is simple.  CCD/CMOS sensors will
                 eventually drop in price like LCD as the manufacturing
                 techniques gets better.  The cost of making ultra-wide
                 lenses are much harder to come down.  So, there isn't much
                 incensitive to roll out APS size cameras.
2004/12/23-25 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35416 Activity:low
12/23   More cameras... so it seems to be more about the lenses than
        the camera. Someone suggested looking at the 28-135 or 70-300 IS ones
        for Canon, those look great, nice and compact. Only the 28-135 is
        affordable for me though. The 70-300 is $1100 and no rebate. I would
        still get the kit lens for wide angle to save my finances. (so $1100)
        On the Nikon side, the 18-70 DX kit lens looks perfect but what might
        be a decent telephoto? thanks.
        \_ I think that person actually meant that 75-300. A COMPLETELY
           different lens. The 70-300mm is actually a pro lens even though
           it's not classified as L and costs $1200 while the 75-300 is only
           about $350. At the same time, the 75-300 is a really low quality
           lens. If you are using a non-full-frame DSLR I wouldn't even
           bother with it. The 28-135 is a great lens and will give you an
           effective zoom about equiv to a 220mm lens on a 35mm camera.
           My professional friends often carry a Canon 28-70mm 2.8L, a
           Canon 70-200mm 2.8L, and a 28-135mm IS during a shoot. These
           are people who make 100% of their income with this gear.
           \_ Still a problem with what to do for wide angles then.
        \_ if you have a DSLR, don't forget about the cropping factor of 1x
           to 1.6x.  that means a 28mm might become a 44 mm.
           \_ yeah but it's good for that telephoto: the 135 becomes 216.
        \_ First of all, allocate your money on lens *FIRST*.  After you
           buy the lens you wanted, then use the spare cash to buy the best
           camera you can afford.  *NOT OTHER WAY AROUND*
           Secondly, don't bother with zooms that is more than 3x.
           Third.  Digital SLR has a multiple factor, so, you really want to
           get somthing like 17mm  on the short end.  The long end number
           is much less important.
           \- unless you are talking about a pretty significant lens budget
              like stabilized or fast lenses or really wide angles, then
              dont worry about lens budget. the nikon 50/1.8 is $100.
              the decent 28-105 is also fairly cheap. it's more like when
              there is a $500 difference between some expensive nikon lens
              and a decent canon lens, this becomes significant. but if you
              are looking at modest lenses, this is not really a big deal.
              it's one thing to compare a $1400 vs a $800 lens, another
              thing to consider $30-$50 difference in say a 50mm or a 24prime.
              you should pick the body you like functionally at your capability
              level and budget. at the high end there are big price jumps
              like when i bought my N90, it was either that or the F5 ...
              $1000 vs $2500 ... the choice was clear. if you expect to
              buy a <$1k body and one ~20-100lens which is 3.5 or slower
              and one 100-200/300 lens which is 4.5 or 5.6 at the long end,
              dont worry about it. if you are also looking at some primes,
              a macro, a 2.8 big lens a really fast like 1.4 or faster short
              prime then worry about it. --psb
2004/12/22-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35397 Activity:high
12/22   There hasn't been a camera thread in a bit. I'm lazy, can someone help
        me decide that a dig SLR is better for me than a "prosumer" one,
        and if so that the Canon dig. rebel at $770 after rebate is the best
        deal? It appears to be $500 less than a Nikon D70.
        \- the +$800 non SLR digitals are for rich morons --psb
        and if so that the Canon dig. rebel at $770 after rebate is the best
        deal? It appears to be $500 less than a Nikon D70.
        \_ It really depends what you want to use it for.  I think for most
           semi-serious photographers, you're probably better off spending less
           money on a fixed-lens camera than more money on an SLR+lens.  A
           number of prosumer cameras have lenses which are quite acceptable,
           although there are some compromises to be made.  If you don't
           already have a bunch of lenses, and don't know exactly how much
           photography you're going to be doing, I'd definitely look at a
           manual-control prosumer camera with a decent fixed lens.  -tom
           \_ yes, I agree with tom that prosumer lenses have their
              advantages.  I'd say price and portability are the two
              main ones.  Have you seen how bulky those Digital SLRs are with
              those long lenses?
        \-nikon d70body is $1k - $100rebate = $900. although unless you have
        a lot of nice lenses you probably do want to get the kit lens. --psb
         \_ yea I was comparing basic kits. the canon body is $670. So is the
            Nikon kit lens worth the extra dough over Canon's? Getting the
            black body on the Canon amusingly seems to add $40. The Nikon lens
            is a DX which I recall you bitching about.
            \- whether the lens is worth it to you obviously depends on
               what you are sitting on and what you plan to shoot. nobody
               is saying "oh it is a piece of shit lens" ... independent
               of how it may fit your needs, the general consensus seems
               to be "it is fairly priced". i have a nikkor AF-D 18-35
               but i bought the kit lens because i have a second body and
               the pix i care about are often paroramics so i didnt want
               to keep swapping lenses. BTW, a huge factor in cameras are
               operational issues that cant be expressed in single number
               statistics like pixels or flash sync speed etc. if one camera
               has something 3 deep on a menu and another camera has a button
               that can immediately control that setting, that kind of thing
               can make a huge difference. --psb
               \_ ok, agreed... I'm sitting on nada, I've kind of followed the
                  market for a while now though. I suppose I wonder why the
                  Canon kit with similar specs ends up $500 less than the
                  Nikon. I think I understand the usability concerns with this
                  Canon camera. Are the lenses different in just "general
                  optical quality" or am I missing something else... ok thx.
                  \- there are a lot fo comparisons on, dpreview
                     etc. if you post non-anonymously i would be more inclined
                     to send you the links.
        \_ if you dont' have any lens at first place, then, go with whatever
           you want: Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Pentax.  All of them are pretty good.
           the key is control, as post earlier.  Make sure the camera you use
           has easy access (e.g. hardware button) for 1. white balance, and
           2. exposure compensation.  If you know anything about photography,
           then, you probably want seperate dial/control for apature and
           shutter speed as well.  Canon Digital Rebel combines apature and
           shutter speed into one control.  For person like me who tend to
           fiddle with both on every picture, that is some serious usability
           issue.  As for lenses, I would ditch the kit lens and get a better
           one, and get as wide as you can afford.
                \- the DX format "G" 18mm lens is going to be much
                   cheaper than anything else which will be an option
                   if he goes with the nikon. otherwise you are talking
                   about a lens with a much more limited range like the
                   18-35 [an AF-D lens] or you are talking about +$800
                   lenses. --psb
        \_ I would go with the Canon 300D (Digital Rebel). Not only is it
           cheaper (w/ 18-55mm lens) than the D70 (w/o lens), it also uses
           a CMOS sensor rather than a CCD. The upshot for a non-pro is
           that the 300D will produce better photos with less fiddling than
           the D70 (a cmos sensor gets a RGB value at every "pixel" whereas
           a CCD only gets one value at each "pixel" and then interpolates
           the others from adjacent pixels). Some of the limitations of the
           \_ This is SOOOOOO Not true. I hope no one is buying the 300D
              based on this lie. All sensors, CMOS or CCD, records only
              one color per pixel. The bayer pattern then merges the colors
              to form one final pixel. What you get is a slight loss of
              sharpness. For the record, only the foveon sensor is physically
              able to record all 3 colors at a single pixel location.
           300D are that it takes a while to boot from standby whereas the
           D70 is instant on, that makes some difference, but I set the
           standby to 30 mins on my 300D when I need to do quick shooting
           and this doesn't reduce my battery life noticeably. The 300D
           also doesn't have some of the pro features that the D70 and
           10/20D have, but if you are looking at a pro-sumer camera, then
           the 300D will be more than sufficient.
           The other big advantage I find is that Canon lenses are cheaper
           used than Nikon lenses and also Canon's lower end lenses are of
           much better optical quality than Nikon's lower end lenses. And
           you could always get yourself a Canon "L" series lens (generally
           consider the best lens you can buy from any vendor).
                    \- the canon 20d vs d70 is a serious question if you
                       take out $$$. i think the d70 is pretty clearly
                       a better camera than the 300d. the only justification
                       for the 300d would be large investment in canon lenses
                       in which case you would probably be looking at the 20d
                       anyway. i would take the cmos/ccd stuff above with a
                       grain of salt. --psb
                        \_ The noise levels of the 300D/10D sensor at the
                           same ISO and shutter speed are lower than the
                           \- focusing [NPI] on a couple of percent difference
                              on laboratory condition, blownup shots is silly.
                              there is a giant difference in noice between
                              physically smaller sensors with same #pixels
                              but suggesting a signficant difference in
                              noise between the d70 and 300 is "noise" ...
                              it's better to look at more significant
                              differences [like camera functionality and
                              interface] than these marginal qualitative
                              ones. d70 vs 300d: 1/500 vs 1/200 flash sync.
                              d70: better metering. 8000th vs 4000th for
                              top shutter speed. much much larger buffer
                              for continuous shooting in d70. better whitebal
                              control. come on. this is not a serious contest.
                              with the 20d it is a serious comparison. --psb
           \_ Yeah they have a rebate deal where you get extra $100 rebates
              on lenses bought with the drebel. I have a hard time determining
              the value to me of some of these though. The 17-40 f/4 L one
              could be interesting, could get with camera for <$1100.
              Adding a tele this gets pretty pricey although I suppose the
              lenses are a better long term investment than the camera.
              One other thing about the SLR is the sensor size:
                \_ I don't remember which lenses qualify for the rebate,
                   but if the 75-300 IS or the 28-135 IS qualify, I would
                   recommend getting one of those.
                   \_ while they are good lenses, don't forget that
                      dSLRs have a cropping factor of 1.3x to 1.6x (some).
                      So that means a 28mm becomes a 44mm (example only)
2004/12/16-17 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Humor] UID:35329 Activity:high
12/16   John, what are they saying? Can you please translate?
        \_ "A bazooka as alarm clock?  Would you have understood this joke?
           In the US, people are currently having a hearty laugh about such
           practical jokes.  What looks like a brutal assault commando is
           a new humor show in the US--candid camera for the really hardcore."
           Uh, I'm torn between (a) this is true and Fox has outdone itself
           and (b) RTL (kraut equivalent of Fox) is taking random shit out
           of concext again so we can all say "look, ha ha, ze silly
           Americans!"  I suspect the latter, it's quite common.  For a
           Dutch perspective,  -John
                \_ THANK YOU. It's nice to see that motd is contributed
                   by people other than the typical Berkeleyean, Bush
                   hating self righteous hippies
           Gift for you John. Nice looking German girl. NOT WORK SAFE.
           \_ What is that from?  Some kind of public nudie contest?
           \_ Good God.  That woman must have no feeling in her chest.
2004/12/10-12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35246 Activity:nil
12/10   Is it worth getting a DV camcorder?
        \_ Versus what?  An analog camcorder, no camcorder, or a digital camera
           with video function?
           \_ vs. no camcorder
           \_ vs. this week's groceries
2004/11/30-12/1 [Consumer/TV, Computer/HW/Drives, Consumer/Camera] UID:35125 Activity:nil
11/30   Anyone one have the show "The Adventures of Pete and Pete" on dvd?
        \_ i thought i was the only person who watched that show.  are you
           12 too?
           \- you can watch the french version:
           \_ "12 too"? Are you making fun of P&P fans? Its a great show.
           \_ Well, I was 12 when it first came on.  It's a great show
              though, well worth buying on DVD. -op
        \_ I too used to love this show... I sent away for a casette tape
           of the theme song and some other music once from a cereal box
           or something. the band was called Polaris. lemme know if you
           want some mp3's.                     - rory
2004/11/24-27 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35067 Activity:low
11/24   Since there are a couple people here who work at snapfish, what
        exactly is the relationship between snapfish and york photo?
        \_ Snapfish is owned by District Photo. York Photo is one
           of District's brands.
           And reports of a couple sodans working at Snapfish are
           greatly exaggerated. - ajani
           \_ Why so many brands, each with different pricing? Is the
              quality inferior for some of those brands?
              \_ When I interviewed with them the apparent reason conveyed
                 to me was some sort of anti-trust issue. -williamc
                 \_ interesting. So it's like M$ releasing different Win
                    versions, renaming them to different products, branch
                    off to different sister-companies, and reselling them
                    to give the image of not monopolizing the industry.
2004/11/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:34904 Activity:nil
11/15 4000 megapixel photographs
2004/11/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:34893 Activity:low
11/14   I need a digital camera capable of taking close up pictures that
        look good when I print it out on an 8.5 x 11 paper.  How many
        megapixels do I need for that?  I'm trying out's
        photobook service and it's smart enough to warn me that my 3.2
        megapixels pictures are no good when I want to place it on one
        big page by itself.  I currently have a 3.2m Canon SD10.  Thanks.
        \- depending on what you mean by "closeup" this may be more of a
           lens question than pixel question. 3mp should be ok for 8x10.
           of course 5mp on a dSLR != 5mp on a point and shoot. --psb
           of course 5mp on a dSLR >> 5mp on a point and shoot.
           BTW, it's not just a matter of the quality of the lens but
           the DoF you shoot with ... on macro shots you can have DoF
           just be a couple of millimeters ... i have had the wings of
           a bug in focus but the bugs feet out of focus. and again,
           "closeup" can mean ... 3 feet or 3 inches. --psb
           \_ And use raw mode if you can.  Quality of a tiff from your
              raw image >> jpeg quality.  -meyers
              \_ Could you provide an example of a RAW/TIFF file that looks
                 an order of magnitude better than an otherwise equivalent
                 top-quality JPEG? -tom
        \_ "look good" is a relative term; it's possible to print at 8x10
           with 2 megapixels, and it looks fine for typical viewing distance
           (picture hanging on wall).  As psb notes, the lens is probably
           more important to think about than the megapixel rating; the lens
           on the Canon SD10 is tiny and probably isn't appropriate for
           macro work.  -tom
2004/11/13-14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:34876 Activity:low
11/13   Can someone use Cal's fine library system and provide the goods on
        Dick Cheney?
        \_ thread removed.
2004/10/28 [Consumer/Camera] UID:34419 Activity:nil
10/28   Bush flipping off the camera. Is this for real?
        \_ Apparently so.
2004/10/19-21 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:34238 Activity:kinda low
10/19   Have you ever purchased a photo cd when developing your pictures?
        What format, resolution, and size are the images?
        \_ A related question.  What's the difference between Photo CD and
           Picture CD?  Thx.
        \_ PhotoCD is the professional one, very expensive, maybe around $35
           per roll. They give you various resolutions for each picture, I've
           heard the max is around 3000x1500 or something.
           PictureCD is what you see when you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. It
           is relatively cheap, developing plus CD is around $8-10. The
           resolution is something like 1536x1024. The good thing is it looks
           identical to your print, which is hard to get if you scan the
           negative directly, the bad thing is the resolution sucks, even
           compare to cheap digital cameras. If you shoot film, it's a nice
           and fast way to get a 'catalog' of pictures to your computer. If
           cost is not too big of an issue, I'd recommend you try it.
           I do not recommend PhotoCD. If you want to go that route, maybe you
           should've picked up the Digital Rebel for $500 from OneCall when
           they have one of those deals.
           \_ I wished Kodak had provided a higher resolution PictureCD service,
              because to them the cost os nothing, the developing of film is in
              the digital domain anyway now a days. If I can get 3000x1500
              PictureCDs from my 35mm film for $10, then I might not have
              jumped on the digital SLR bandwagen so fast. They only have
              themselves to blame for the inevitible.
              \_ You are forgetting the cost to create the takes
                 machine time.  At least in the early days, this wasn't
                 \_ How much could a machine with a 1x CD-writer cost in the
                    'olden-days'?  $10K?  Depreciate that over the use it would
                    get in 2-3 years.  If they burn only 4 discs per day in
                    250 business days, that still comes to about $3/disc for
                    usage of the machine, and for later machines, well we all
                    know what hapened to CD-R prices and speeds.
2004/10/6 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/Domains] UID:33950 Activity:high
10/6    Is and the same company?  Many
        of their web pages look almost identical except the background color.
        \_ A simple whois query shows that they are both owned by Ritz Camera.
           \_ % whois
              No match for "<DEAD>WWW.CAMERAWORLD.COM"<DEAD>
              \_ % whois
                 No match for "<DEAD>WWW.YAHOO.COM"<DEAD>
                 Does this mean there's no yahoo?  Or does this mean you're
                 an idiot?
                 \_ Where did I say that whois having no match for a host
                    implies there's no such host?
                    \_ You're right.  I should just have said "Does this mean
                       you're an idiot?".
                       \_ Line 97 of the man page says that I can pass the
                          domain name as the argument to "whois" without any
                          option.  That's what I did.  If you think I'm an
                          idiot in using "whois", please point out the correct
                          \_ I don't think you know what domain name means.
                             \_ Ah!  I forgot.  It works now.  Thank you!
2004/9/29-30 [Consumer/Camera] UID:33836 Activity:kinda low
9/29    Dear MOTD photographers, I heard that when I shoot color negatives, I
        need to overexpose it by one stop in order to get the best result.  For
        example, I should set my camera to ISO 100 when I use a roll of ISO 200
        film.  What's the reason behind it?  Thanks.
        \_ Nonsense. Now a days color negatives are pretty good that this
           technique is irrelevant. If you do so, you have to tell the lab
           about this. Too much hassle. If you want to do this, then you must
           be a pro and knows exactly what you are doing. If not, then you
           shouldn't bother with it.
           \_ Thanks.  What was the reason to do this in the old days then?
        \_ That's just silly. Modern film and developing process allows
           for a bit of light metering error, usually at least 1 full stop
           of error up and down. Most labs just leave the machine set to
           auto correct both color saturation and exposure. If you ever
           want EXACTLY whats on the film, you have to specifically tell
           them when you drop off the film "do not autocorrect ANYTHING.
           I want exactly what's on the negative." Following that guys advice
           will end up hurting you in the long run. Actually, setting your
           camera to 100 when you are using 200 will make your shooting a bit
           of a bitch since your shutter time will almost always be longer
           than it actually needs to be.
           \- Yeah, this is one of those "if you have to ask, go with
              the defaults". There are defeinitely times when you are
              better off erring on the side of underexposing [if the
              metering is complicated and for one reason or another
              you are not bracketing]. Like if you are shooting in
              snowy or glaciers ...  over exposing washing out details
              in a fashion where you cant recover. If underexp, you
              may be able to recover some detail.  ok tnx. --psb
2004/9/23 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Media] UID:33721 Activity:nil
9/23    The Corporation is an awsome independent film, go watch it it's
        totally worth it (and it costs less than blockbuster movies).
2004/9/22-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:33705 Activity:low
9/22    RIP Russ Meyer
        \_ Let's hope he's sucking on the great big 38DD in heaven.
           \_ Better yet, titty-f them.
        \_ maybe now those movies will get some decent distribution!
        \_ OMG!  I didn't know about him before.  He's my hero!
                |_ go see Faster Pussycat Kill! Kill!  immediately!
        \_ Somebody pointed out that for every one of his films, at least one
           rock band has taken the film title as their name. "Faster Pussycat!"
        \_ John Waters on "Faster Pussycat, Kill!  Kill!": "beyond doubt, the
           best movie ever made ... possibly better than any film that will
           ever be made in the future."
        \_ Roger Ebert, who was a lifelong friend of Meyer's, has a nice
           rememberance of him. The story about General Patton is particularly
2004/8/23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:33075 Activity:high
8/23    Dear motd nikon users: where do you take your (film) SLR for service
        \_ Horizon Electronics in Union City
        \_ I've never had my N70 professionally cleaned.  Still works great
           after shooting 300 rolls or so since I bought it.  -- yuen
           \_ Does dust ever enter your camera?
              \_ Yes, it's usually along the edge of the back cover.  I just
                 use a rubber blower and a soft brush to clean the dust out.
                 Just be careful not to break the shutter curtain when you
                 squeeze the blower with the nozzle very close to it.  -- yuen
2004/8/21 [Consumer/Camera] UID:33054 Activity:nil
8/20    After years' laziness I've finally decided to take my nikon slr to
        an "annual" cleaning.  Which is a good place in BA (south bay
        preferre) for doing that?  The Nikon factory center is down in LA.
        \_ Horizon Electronics in Union City. If all it needs is just cleaning
           they will probably do it while you wait, as well as check the light
           meter and the shutter
2004/8/20-21 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:33051 Activity:nil
8/20    Canon EOS 20D:
        \_ That's so "yesterday's gizmodo"
2004/8/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32910 Activity:high
8/15    Motd Photo Experts: I ended up buying a used 28-105 for my
        Digital rebel. Thanks for your help. Here are some photos
        I took using that lens (1600x1200, 180dpi, ~ 1mb each):
        If anyone has some pointers on what I can do to improve
        my photos I would appreciate it. tia.
        \_ composition
           \- this is not the kind of picture you should ask for help
              with. photographing birds is hard and much of the
              variables are out of your hand ... you have to shoot
              fast, maybe cant get closer, maybe cannt change angle
              etc. you dont want advice like "go buy this $3000
              lens ...". --psb
           \- if you want to photograph birds go to say costa rica. --psb
             \_ The digital rebel is basically my first real
                 camera, so I'm looking for pointers on general
                 photography, not necessarily shooting birds.
                 Stuff like when to try different iso speeds,
                 exposures, &c. will help me. One reason I
                 photograph  birds is that they are colorful,
                 and plentiful (lots of them in my backyard
                 every evening and they mostly stay put even
                 when I get pretty close)
           \_ What exactly does this mean?
              \_ very clear pictures, but I agree, composition:
                 Example URLs:
                 Look at the composition section.
                 \- this WEEB site re-enforces my point ... you cant move
                    the bird, you cant ask it to move, and your ability
                    to move is constrained ... it's hard to get level or
                    closer to a bird 20 feet above you in a tree. as for
                    "filling the frame", as i imply above, long fast zooms
                    are expensive. with the 105 you may still be able to
                    handhold but at some point you will need stabilization.
                    i go agree some photogrtaphers make the mistake of
                    i do agree some photogrtaphers make the mistake of
                    trying to put too much in the frame ... "here is a
                    picture of my wife on the pont alexander iii ... let me
                    try to get the whole bridge in the picture ... and the
                    eiffel tower in the back, and the boat on the river".
                    eiffel tower in the back, and the split on the river".
                    some shots simply dont work at all, sometimes you are
                    contstrained by the lenses you have. --psb
                    \_ But the OP can try to follow the Rule of Thirds as
                       described in the above website, which should be easy
                       even with the constraints in this case.  Just point the
                       lens at a slightly different angle.  To the OP: if you
                       don't have a reason to put the subject at the dead
                       center of a particular frame, don't, and go for the Rule
                       of Thirds instead.  AF-lock is your friend.  I don't
                       know Canons, but you might need to use AE-lock too.  As
                       for filling the frame, you can always crop it in
                       Photoshop afterwards if your lens is not "long" enough.
                       Some purists consider post-processing cheating, though.
                       --- yuen
                       \- yes, it is possible to take even worse pictures.
2004/8/11 [Consumer/Camera, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:32825 Activity:very high
8/10    Since someone asked, here are a few quality images which I could
        easily upload:  -tom
        \_ thanks.
        \_ Hey, these are nice photos. Thanks for putting them up.
           \_ ya very nice except for the one portrait shot. i really like the
                mountain photo.
                \_ What don't you like about the portrait?  -tom
                   \_ it looks soft/fuzzy and doesn't seem to capture any
                      particular emotion. it's a girl wearing a t-shirt. what
                      were your motivations/thoughts about the photo? what
                      made you decide to include w/ the other photos, which i
                      thought were great?
                      \_ I don't have skill with portraits, but I do like that
                         image quite a bit.  Maybe the fact that I know the
                         context is biasing my judgement.  (That's why I
                         asked; portraiture is an area I need to improve
                         on).  -tom
                         \_ photography is largely subjective.  I know people
                            who absolutely love photos which aren't real
                            portraits.  I personally like the photo.
                            She's cute too.
        \_ Ah, man!  I wanted pictures of the man himself!  -tom holub # fan
        \_ thanks for squishing kchang tom. Now please stop squishing the motd
        \_ great pictures.  do you do bike stunts/tricks?
           \_ "bike" stunts, no.  I do some unicycle tricks, but mostly just
              standard mountain bike trails.  -tom
              \_ did you bike all the way there?
                 \_ Up to Porcupine Rim?  Yeah, although a lot of it wasn't
                    rideable in the uphill direction (same with the Slickrock
                    Trail).  I rode almost all of it in the downhill direction.
2004/8/8-9 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32765 Activity:very high
8/8     What affect does heat have on a digital camera?  In particular,
        suppose I leave my camera in my car all day once every few weeks
        during the summer when it's 90 degrees and sunny outside.  I've
        found mixed results searching the net.  The flash card web site
        claims that no amount of heat will damage any pictures.  The image
        recovery software site says they can recover pics lost due to
        extreme heat.  From other sites, I gathered that the biggest risk
        is that the battery could explode.  If so, would leaving a digital
        camera without it's battery in the car contain no risk, or could
        the camera (or the flash memory) be damaged from occasionally being
        left in the hot car all day?
        \_ I took mine outside once when it was 20degrees F and now I
           have a bunch of bad pixels.
        \_ My manual says that the operating temp range is 32-104 F.  It
           doesn't say anything about storage temp, but I did find specs
           on the web for a similarly priced camera that said that it
           can be stored at up to 176 F, which is probably hotter than it
           would get in any car parked in the sun in 100F weather (I would
           hope).  My manual, however, does say not to store the camera in
           places subject to high heat, without giving numbers.  So, I wonder
           if there's anyone out there who's left their camera in their car
           on a hot day and if this has affected the camera in any
           noticeable way.  I'm thinking it's probably not going to
           be a problem, but is this wishful thinking?  -op
           \_ Temperatures inside a parked car can reach 200F.
           \_ Temperatures inside a parked car can reach 260F.
           \_ Temperatures inside a parked car can reach 360F.
             \_ Can, in the most extreme conditions (black car, 115F
               outside), or will with say, 95 degree heat parked in the sun?
        \_ on a related question, how many times can the compact flash
           store/delete? Someone told me 300, which IMHO is a bit small.
           \_ that's ridiculous.
        \_ Which part of the car stays coolest?  Would it be the trunk
           since it gets no direct sunlight?  Or would the lowest place
           (under the seat, for example) be best, since heat rises?
           \-i'd guess some place with poor convection subject to randiant
             heating, i.e. direct sunlight hitting it at close to 90deg,
             like maybe the the top of the dash or front seat and subject to
             direct light.
            \_ OK, but where is the coolest place in the car among the
               following 4 choices: trunk, under the driver's seat,
               glove compartment, or in the little compartment between the
               2 front seats?
2004/8/6-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32754 Activity:very high
8/6     What picture resolution do you usually use for your digital camera
        and why? For sharing 1024x768 is more than sufficient, and I rarely
        go up to 2000x???? because I don't print posters
        \_ since i have a 1GB CF card, i take RAW pictures on my Canon, which
           is like 2276x1something. i send pix @ 800x600, which seems reasonable
          is like 2276x1something. i send pix @ 800x600, which seems reasonable
        \_ I run my 21" desktop at 1280x1024 usually so never larger than that.
        \_ Always take picture at largest resolution, then shrink them down
           before sending to friends. You will thank yourself years down the
           road as your photo becomes more precious and display technology
           continues to improve.
           \_ Good point.  --21" monitor guy
           \_ Agreed.  For 99% of your images, it won't matter, but for those
              rare, spectacular images, you'll kick yourself if you're not
              able to blow them up because you were trying to save $80 on
              flash cards.  -tom
              \_ You need to improve your photography skill tom. :)
                 \_ You need to improve your critical eye.  -tom
                    \_ Tom, can we see some of your "rare, spectacular images"
                       \_ This was a serious request.  I'd like to see some
                          of your pictures representing photographic quality,
                          not just "here is a picture of Grizzley Peak Road."
              \_ But, tom, do you still believe that using JPEG as a format
                 is the way to go instead of the camera's raw mode or TIFF?
                 \_ I think RAW has some advantages in the camera->computer
                    transfer, but it doesn't work as a long-term storage
                    format, because RAW is not a standard.  TIFF also has
                    standardization problems, and there isn't a preceptible
                    visual difference between uncompressed TIFF and top-quality
                    JPEG, so it's not worth the hassle and size of dealing with
                    TIFF.  -tom
                    \_ ever do complex photo manipulation?  JPG kills that.
                    JPEG's quantization produces numerous low bit differences
                       that just throws it all off.
                       \_ How do you define "complex photo manipulation"?
                          I certainly tweak my photos in Photoshop all the
                          time, and haven't noticed any problems.  -tom
                       \_ How about PNG instead of say TIFF or RAW?  lossless
                          compression format.  --Jon
                          \_ Maybe I am missing something, but for storage,
                             why not just zip the file? -- ilyas
        \_ I shoot all of my pictures in raw mode.  Why throw away data
           your camera gives you?  I also use multiple 512MB CF cards instead
           of one mondo 4GB card; I can back up each 512MB card to a cd and
           then process them later.  -meyers
           \_ Let's hope you can open those raw files in some app 20 years
              down the road. ;)
              \_ If I really wanted to, I could trivally convert them to
                 36MB tiff files.  When I switch to a photo editor that
                 doesn't support the RAW format of my camera, I might do
                 just that (and write my images to some higher capacity
                 medium).  -meyers
                 \-let's state the obvious: the resolution and mode of shooting
                   obviously depends on the circumstances. if i am shooting
                   something live, i will shoot digital on continuous.
                   because of buffering and sheer volume, this is not
                   reasonable to do at +50meg per image ... unless maybe
                   you do a short burst and edit on the spot. also in high
                   contrast situations, also you are probably going to come
                   away with a better picture by shooting 5 lower #bits
                   pix and braketing a lot. face it ... you are shooting
                   at a bbq or picnic, or at a backyard party or a touch
                   football game in the park ... dont shoot 5megapixel TIFF.
                   nobody will care about those picture that much.
                   same for shooting with a long zoom and no tripod or medium
                   quality lens [e.g. when i was shooting covertly at stern
                   grove with at 300mm of live action].
                   grove at 300mm of live action].
                   on the other hand, you wake up before dawn and hike
                   to a spot in Yosemite Valley to shoot the early morning
                   light hitting the Wall of Early Morning Light on El Cap,
                   consider shooting at your best, lossless format ...
          i suppose you ought to look up
                   one of the web pages that advises how many pixels you
                   ought to aim for to print at various sizes, for those
                   rare pictures that will hit paper. n.b. i dont  do heavy
                   digital modification. if you do, YMMV. --psb
        \_ I shoot fine jpg (3072x2048, 180 dpi) on my digital rebel. I
           find that this gives me the best results to work with when
           trying to crop/scale the image down to 1680x1050 (my 20"
           cinema display's native resolution).
        \_ I save my canon photo's in both raw format and hi-res jpeg.
           storage mediums are cheap nowadays.
2004/7/27 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32493 Activity:very high
7/26    Is there a program in windows that can reduce all the image files
        in a folder by a specified amount? I want to do this for several
        hundred pictures I just copied to my desktop from my digital
        camera. Thanks.
        \_ acdsee
        \_ "Reduce"?  Do you mean delete a few, make them lower resulution,
           convert to a lossy format, or recompress to be more lossy?
        \_ Paint Shop Pro for windows can do a batch convert, including setting
           .jpg prefs etc.  I suspect ImageMagick could do it too.
        \_ Good freeware, search for IrfanView.
2004/7/19 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32343 Activity:insanely high
7/19    Motd Photo Experts: I'm thinking about getting a 28-105 F3.5-4.5
        USMII lens to replace the 18-55 lens that came with my Digital
        Rebel ( for b&h link)
        I want a longer zoom (as opposed to wide angle) because I'm
        usually photographing birds and its hard to get close enough to
        get a good shot with the 18-55.
        Does anyone have this lens? Is it a good buy? tia.
        \_ I just bought one and know where to get another locally
           at a good price. nwrite me -shac
        \_ A few follow up questions:
           1) If I should be looking at a longer zoom, what about a
              55-200: (b&h)
           2) Right now I have a 1A (UV?) filter and a separate circular
              polarizer (I was told I should use this when shooting
              outside in order to prevent wash out). I have been reading
              that using two filters in series isn't a good idea. Is
              there some filter that I can get which combines the 1A and
              the cp or does something similar?
              \_ If you're going to use a polarizer when shooting moving
                 objects, and the lens lets you mount filters at the front,
                 make sure you get a lens whose front element doesn't rotate
                 while focusing.  Otherwise, every time you re-focus you'll
                 have to re-adjust the polarizer.  I have a cheap Tamron zoom
                 whose front element doesn't rotate, and then an expensive
                 Nikkor of the same zoom range whose front element does rotate.
                 About using two filters being bad, I think what you read
                 refers to vignetting, which is usually a problem when shooting
                 wide-angle.  Since you're shooting telephoto, I don't think
                 it'll be a problem for you.  --- yuen
        \_ This is a very good lens for the price.
        \_ blah blah.
        \_ I would still get the 18-55mm zoom lens instead for two reasons:
           1. wide angle is 200% more "useful" than telephoto lens. 28mm on
              the short end is a bit too long for dSLR (smiliar to 50mm on a
              35mm, and take my word for it).
           2. I am not a bird shooter, but from my limited experiences, unless
              you are only going to shoot bird in that big cage down in San
              Diego Zoo, you want something longer than 105mm (even with
              multiplication factor considered).  PERSONALLY, I would suggest
              you get a 70-200mm instead.  That lens would give you enough
              reach for now, and non-USM version is very cheap for its
              quality. Birds are hard to shoot, and unless you have
              experience with them, I would still suggest you go down in
              San Diego Zoo and try to shoot them in the cage first :p
              If you have money to burn, get a regular 300mm non-zoom.
              That lens is very very well regarded.
            \_ Thanks for the advice. My digital rebel came with the
               18-55, and I'm not thinking about selling it. I wanted
               to get the 28-105 as a day to day replacement for the
               for the 18-55.
               \_ you won't able to.  Just get a seperate lens, 70-200mm
                  would give you enough reach at the long end, and
                  relatively flexiable enough to be used in other occations.
               I agree that birds are pretty tough to shoot. Right now
               I'm practicing mostly on birds in my yard and geese/ducks
               at a pond near work.
           \_ The OP is using a dSLR, with multiplication factor of 1.6
              So, while your lens recommendation is good for 35mm camera,
              it's not so good for Digital Rebel.  Further, OP is not a
              photo geek (yet).  And only photo geeks buy prime lenses
              nowadays.  Both 85mm and 105mm is a bit too short for
              shooting bird even with the 1.6X factored in.
                        owner of 20mm, 28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 500mm and 2 zooms.
           \_ to OP:  if you realy want to shoot bird, you need a lens which
              for it. You can't have a lens which is good for casual shooting
              AND be useful for bird shooting as well.  Stick with a 18mm-55mm
              and get a long lens (around 200mm) and you will be good to go.
        \_ Consider getting a 85mm or a 105mm prime, or even the cheap 50mm
           prime. The 50mm beats the pants off the 18-55mm, especially when
           you are taking flower pictures. If you are tight on budget, the 28-105
           is an excellent lens. Optically it is noticibly better than the kit
           lens that came with the rebel. If you have the $$$, I would recommend
           a more telephoto zoom, like 70-200mm, etc.
        \_ I'm not a Canon user.  Before you buy any telephoto lens for you
           digital Rebel, you should check whether or not the's lens' widest
           aperature setting at the long end of its focal length range works
           with the AF system on your camera.  For 28-105 f/3.5-4.5, you should
           check if f/4.5 works with your AF.  This is important since you're
           shooting moving objects far away.  If you're shooting dead birds,
           however, it's okay to lose AF.  --- yuen
           \_ Insert obHuntingJoke
2004/7/14-15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32285 Activity:moderate
7/14    I miss B&H in NYC. Is there a good place to try out cameras in
        the bay area?
        \_ I'd recommend SF Discount Camera on Kearny, near Union Square
           in San Francisco.  Incredibly helpful salesmen and a great
           selection.  Beware you'll pay about $50 more on average than
           you would through say, Amazon, but then with Amazon you have
           no way to do a hands on comparison.
        \_ What about Looking Glass on Telegraph (a couple blocks south
           of Andronico's)?  I've never bought a camera there but they
           have a great selection of other photography paraphernalia like
           film/paper/bags/tripods/even a darkroom.  Their salespeople are
           super friendly and helpful.  -- alice
                 \-Looking Glass is sort of the Breads of India of camera
                   stores. --psb
                   \_ Dunno Breads of India.  What do you mean?
           \_ They have a great selection of accessories, but last time I went
              there they have only one or two cameras on shelf.  They can
              special-order but there's nothing you can try out.
2004/7/10-12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32211 Activity:high
7/10    People don't want to put their camera/film through the X-ray
        machines at the airport because the film could get damaged.  With
        digital cameras, is there any reason to want to avoid the camera
        doing through the X-ray machines at the airport?
        \_ No. Also, I'm somewhat skeptical about the X-Ray/Film thing.
           If the X-Rays were that powerful I wouldn't want to stand
           next to the thing.
           \_ obrepomanreference
           \_ Well, even if x-rays don't ruin your photo's, they can still
              cloud them. Especially, as you go thru more than one x-ray
              machine during your vacation or business trip.
           \_ depend upon the film too.  If you use ISO 1600, you probably
              want to ask the customs to hand-check the canister.
              \_ Good luck. Security isn't too sympathetic these days.
                 \_ There's a federal regulation that you can read off of
                    the transportation agency website that says that you
                    are entitled to a hand check for any professional grade
                    films above certain ISO(maybe 800?).  This is only in US,
                    btw.  As for X-ray fogging films: *never* check any films
                    as they use more powerful x-ray on checked baggage, and
                    these WILL fog your film.  The ones next to the security
                    checkpoint are weaker, and ISO400 films can usually go
                    through them about 4 times without any noticeable fogging.
                    slower films can go through them more.  This is all for
                    any unprocessed films.  So you may consider processing your
                    films before coming back from your trip if they're
                    important enough for you.
                 \_ Government staff, government wages, government quality.
                    \_ right.  i'm sure they'd be much better if they made
                       minimum wage and had no benefits or job security.
                       Ever been to a walgreens?
                       \_ You get what you pay for.  I don't pay walgreens
                          $50,000 a year in taxes.  For what I pay the
                          government every year, every time I make a
                          purchase, every time I cross a bridge, and every
                          time I sneeze, I should get better service than
                          Walgreens.  Have you ever paid $50,000 for service
                          and got government quality effort for it?  There is
                          a reason why one of the Big Lies is "I'm from the
                          government and I'm here to help".
                          \_ That's a bogus argument.  You are not entitled to
                             much better government service just because you
                             pay more taxes.  The average American (a bad
                             example, I know) pays ~$6000 per year in taxes.
                             Considering all the social services, civic
                             infrastructure, and massive military, that's not
                             a terrible value.
                             \_ Please highlight where he says he should get
                                better service than someone who pays less
                                taxes?  He is rightfully irritated that he
                                gets shitty government service period.  The
                                point is that _someone_ is paying 50k in
                                taxes, and the govt. is not delivering.
                                \_ He never said it, but it was implied:
                                   "I don't pay walgreens $50,000 a year in
                                    taxes... ...I should get better service
                                    than Walgreens..."
                                   If it was only about shitty government
                                   service, than saying he expects more for
                                   $50,000 is irrelevant.
           \_ Your film will be ruined if they are exposed to to light.
              Would you start living in a darkroom form now on?
              \_ You're aware of the difference between light, which can be
                 easily blocked by putting your film in an opaque container
                 and xrays which will pass through most common materials?
        \_ I was asking about taking a digital camera through airport
           security.  Why all this talk about film?  -op
           \_ because your average sodan ignores the op's post and jumps
              into a flame war without reading the rest of the thread.
              now watch as your film post spawns a meta flame war about
              motd flame wars...
           \_ because it's a stupid question.  X-ray machine barely does
              damage on regular films, it shouldn't do any damage on digital
2004/7/2 [Consumer/Camera, Politics/Domestic] UID:31131 Activity:very high
7/2     Is it now illegal to take a picture or video of buildings that
        are major landmarks or contain government offices?  Please no trolls.
        \_ It is suspicious, especially if you are brown-skinned.  You don't
           need to break to law to be arrested and detained indefinitely.
           \_ Don't spread FUD. The USSC has actually recently ruled that
              as long as you are an American citizen, you do, in fact need
              to be charged and due process must be followed.
              \_ I am not worried so much about high consitutional principles
                 as the potential of getting arrested and/or put in solitary
                 confinement for any period of time just dong what tourists
                 always do.
                 \_ Yeah because "they" are out there in black helicopters
                    picking up every tourist with a camera.
              \_ They can still call you an enemy combatant or a "person of
                 interest" and hold you indefinitely.  You *do* have the right
                 to challenge your confinement (habeas corpus), but that might
                 be cold comfort after spending 3 months in solitary
                 \_ Not if you are a US Citizen on US territory. That was
                    what the Padilla case was about. If you are talking about
                    foriegners on US soil, you are correct.
2004/6/21-22 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30933 Activity:high
6/21    For those with SLRs: Do you also have a small digital camera?
        If so, how often do you use the smaller camera?
        \_ I got a 4 megapixel camera for my wife for snapshots of our
           son.  I never use it.  When I want quick pictures I just use
           a 50mm or 20mm lens on my D60.  -meyers
        \_ I still carry around the Canon S230 I had before my SLR for
           snapshots, but usually end up letting someone else use it while
           I use my SLR.
        \_ Man, you guys are rich, Digi-SLR cost over $900
           \_ My SLR is just a used Elan IIe. - guy with S230
           \_ you can get film SLRs for $200
        \_ Once you have a digital camera, you'll use the film camera a lot
           less, be it an SLR or not. Once you get a digital SLR, your film
           camera will collect dust. Think about it before you plung down
           the money now for a film slr.
           \_ when I said small camera, I meant a small digital camera
              like a Canon S230
           \_ It depends on what kind of photographer you are.  If you're
              just shooting snapshots, it's probably very true.  But if you're
              in it as a hobby, like I am, you will find SLRs a lot more fun
              than any digital snapshooters.  The cost of film and developing
              makes me think about getting a digital SLR sometimes, but it
              still costs too much and you lose the characteristics of using
              different films, which I enjoy. - S230 guy
        \_ The 300D is my only camera now. I used to have a p&s digicam and
           a aps p&s camera, but I got rid of them after getting the 300D.
           It is light enough to take almost everywhere and the picture are
           stunning even if you don't know what you are doing.
        \_ I have two film SLRs.  I'm going to buy a cheap digital p&s for my
           wife but I probably won't be using it much.  I'm still waiting for
           digitals SLRs to get cheaper before I buy one.  --- yuen
        \_ a small pocket-sized digital camera is great when you want to
           travel light and not look like a tourist. you can get very good
           picture quality and for photo album sized picture prints, you
           won't notice the difference.
        \_ if size matters, than, chances are, you are not all that into
           photography (and there is nothing wrong with that), thus, you
           would use more of a small digital camera.  Personally, I find
           films are pain in the butt to organize, but using a real SLR
           using a fast lens, and knobs and rings to adjust apatures /
           shutterspeed an absolute pleasure to taking a picture itself.
           \_ That is the choice - the enjoyment of photography, or of the
           actual subject at hand.  Carrying a Digital Rebel would interfere
           with quite a few of my subjects, and I do care about photography.
        \_ I like having an SLR (Elan II) and a P&S Digital (S400). If I'm
           going to take lame party pictures or whatever, I'll use the digital.
           Both serve their purpose, the main reason to use the S400 is size.
2004/6/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30814 Activity:high
6/12    To whoever posted about the digital Rollei camera, my Dad:
        "what were they thinking of?  That us old geezers have so much
         money we can't stand to keep any of it?  The old Rollie's were
         good for a lot of things, but not particularly for portraits.
         It's like a little kid taking pictures of adults; lots of
         pictures of looking up nostrils.
         For a selling point, they missed a good one.  The picture of the
         flag raising at IwoJima was taken with a Rollei."
        \_ I agree w/ your father. I think that it is strange that Rollei
           (of all companies) would come out with a "cute" camera. A
           decent digital camera w/ a CMOS sensor would be more what I
           would expect from them.
           Long live Kais Motd!                         -kais motd #2 fan
2004/6/15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30804 Activity:nil
6/14    Rolleiflex MiniDigi:
        \_ that is a cool little camera
2004/6/9 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30689 Activity:high
6/9     Photo Enthusiasts.  I'm looking for a camera mainly for outdoors
        shots.  Camping, Hiking, Travel, etc.  I'm leaning towards the dSLR's.
        What do you think of Canon Eos Rebel (D300), D10, Nikon D70, and
        Olympus E-1.  I also hear rumors of a cheaper Olympus dSLR in the
        late summer.  The only consumer compacts I'm considering are the
        8 MP's, 8080, Powershot Pro1, etc., that have almost all the features
        of a dSLR.  Any thoughts on these cameras, or recommendations would
        be greatly appreciated.
        \_ Wow, check out all these photography geeks.  Now I know where all
           the net pr0n is coming from.
        \_ sounds like you just want a fancy point-n-shoot and have no existing
           lens.  In that case, look at Pentax, Sigma, and Olympus.  They tendto
           be cheap, and their camera is pretty good.
           to be cheap, and their camera is pretty good.
        \_ shoot me an email.  and for those who are interested in this
           debate... join me.           -kngharv
        \_ I recommend the canon 300D. I have one and I use it mostly for
           taking photos while traveling. It is light enough (with the
           stock 18-55 lens or a 28-105 lens) that it doesn't feel like a
           burden to carry while traveling.
           The 10D is basically the same camera as the 300D except that it
           is much heavier, more expensive and doesn't come with a lens. The
           added weight of the 10D was one of the factors that led me to the
           300D. (To be fair the 10D's extra weight is in the magnesium body
           which probably makes it a more robust camera, but the plastic 300D
           seems sufficiently robust for ordinary traveler).
           I would avoid the Nikon and the Olympus since they come with CCD
           sensors. The images from CCDs are not nearly as clear as those from
           the CMOS sensor in the 300D and the 10D. (AFAIK, the way a CCD
           sensor works is that each "pixel" captures just one color and
           then the other colors are interpolated from the adj. pixels. The
           CMOS captures every color at every pixel giving a more accurate
           and clearer/less-noisy photo). --ranga
        \_ Didn't I hear recently that there was some EOS Rebel hack that
           lets you unlock most of the features available on a D30?
           \_ I just googled and saw this:
              I think the dig. rebel is a pretty good deal anyway.
           \- if you dont have an investment in nikon gear, i would avoid
              nikon, unless you are willing to spend $$$ and prefer nikon
              look/feel/interface to canon. again, if you dont have a lens
              \_ Is this b/c of $$$ of Nikkor lenses or b/c of Canon quality?
                 \_ Nikon and Canon has similiar quality.  Both are excellent.
                    Nikon tend to have better wide angle lens, better macro
                    lens, and better flash technology.  Canon tend to have
                    better auto-focus (EV +1 or better), much better focusing
                    speed at telephoto, and generally more feature-packed
                    than nikon for similiar-priced camrea body.
                    Canon is a better company,though.  Nikon's long-term
                    viability is in question            -nikon guy
              investment, i think you need to figure out your total budget
              for body+lens, rather than treat them separately. i think a
              reasonable analogy is amp:body::speaker:lens. you should go to
     and narrow it down some [either to 2-3 models or
              compare on some narrow question rather than "what is better"].
              i note in passing, that weight concerns can be a big deal
              if outdoor = hiking with equipment. while the 1.5x multipler
              is nice for your zoom shots, it makes panoramaic difficult.
              a nice 24prime becomes a 35mm. an 18mm lens or zoom will get
              you 28mm view field, but that is a $$, large lens. if outdoor
              means "at the family BBQ" than this doesnt apply. --psb
              \_ D70 and D300 come packaged w/an 18mm lens.  Where do the
                 diff's betw. a pro-level $2k+ 18mm vs. the DX 18mm lie?
                 \_ in general, there is no such thing as "pro level" versus
                    "consumer" level lens.  If you got the chance, look at
                    \- i personally dont use those terms but there is for
                       sure a difference in build quality as well as specs
                       between say the nikkor 50 1.8 [$100]and nikkor 50 1.4
                       [$300], or the nikon 18-35zoom [<$500] and the 17-35
                       zoom [$1000+] ... i think it is fair to characterize
                       a 300/2.8 as "pro" lens vs. a 300mm zoom at 5.6.
                       lens grouping can also affect optical quality, such
                       as whether a floating element is used. --psb
                       \_ yes, it is true that slower lens tend to have inferior
                          build quality than faster one.  The cheaper lens is
                          somewhat optically inferior than the expensive counter-
                          part is actually generally not true (with exception of
                       \_ yes, it is true that slower lens tend to have
                          inferior build quality than faster one.  The cheaper
                          lens is somewhat optically inferior than the
                          expensive counter-part is actually generally not
                          true (with exception o f
                          "consumer zoom").  50mm f/1.4 definitely has better
                          build quality than 50mm f/1.8.  But in Nikon's case,
                          50mm f/1.8 is actually a bit sharper than the f/1.4
                          counter part.  For 85mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8, the 85mm f/1.4
                          has a lot more apature blade thus make brokeh a lot nicer.
                          counter part.  For 85mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8, the
                          85mm f/1.4 has a lot more apature blade thus make
                          brokeh a lot nicer.
                          But aside from that, the optical differences betweenthe two
                          is insignificant.  I have a 70-210mm f/4.  And in that case,
                          Nikon's 80-200mm f/2.8 is optically superior, eventhough
                          I don't think they DELIBERATELY make the slower lensoptically
                          inferior.  The truth is, bulk of the cost lies upon making a
                          lens just this bit faster.    -kngharv
                          the two is insignificant.  I have a 70-210mm f/4.
                          And in tha t case, Nikon's 80-200mm f/2.8 is
                          optically superior, eventhough I don't think they
                          DELIBERATELY make the slower lens optically
                          inferior.  The truth is, bulk of the cost lies
                          upon m aking a lens just this bit faster.    -kngharv
                    both focal length and maximum apature.  larger the
                    maximum apature, more expensive it is. Just give you an
                    idea.  Nikon has two similiar lenses:  85mm f/1.4 and
                    85mm f/1.8.  note, that f/1.8 is only 2/3 stop slower than
                    f/1.4.  But 85mm f/1.4 cost twice as much, and weights
                    three times as much as 85mm f/1.8.  Does it mean that
                    85mm f/1.8 is optically inferior? no.  all it means
                    is that it is slower, nothing more.
              \- BTW, I cant emphasize enough about the weight. when you
                 are "travelling" it is a big commitment to carry 5lbs and
                 +$3k in gear. are you sure the "extra reach" of the SLR
                 approach is worth it? if you end up taking 5x as many pictures
                 with a small digital, you'll probably end up with as many
                 good pix. BTW, the main "feature" of a dSLR is choice of
                 lens, not can you choose iso level etc. --psb
                 \_ there are some feature differences too I think. i.e. can
                    you get the features like high megapixels, wide iso
                    range, and the various other settings in a much lighter
                    \_ main selling point of dSLR is the flexibility of interchangable
                       lens. Sure, there are functional differences, but they are
                       insignificant for most people... or obscure.  Example of
                       obscure feature: shutter lag.  Would you spend extra $500
                       for faster shutter lag?
                    \_ main selling point of dSLR is the flexibility of
                       interchangable lens. Sure, there are functional
                       differences, but they are insignificant for most
                       people... or obscure.  Example of obscure feature:
                       shutter lag.  Would you spend extra $500 for faster
                       shutter lag?
                      \_ that's what I'm saying, it's not $500 extra for a
                         dig. rebel compared to a reasonable alternative.
                         sure if someone just wants snapshots then any cheap
                         camera will do.
                 \_ That's the _only_ reason I'm considering the 8MP compacts.
                    Weight.  OTOH, with the dSLR packaged lenses, I'd only
                    need to get a zoom lens to 133mm to get the same zoom range
                    as the 8MP compacts.  I was thinking of pairing the dSLR
                    up with a sub-compact for when I want to go very light,
                    and ditch the extra 2-3 lbs' of camera weight.  The other
                    "main feature" of dSLR's I like is the fps and shutter lag.
                    Both are very problematic w/compact cameras.
                 \_ Actually most of the dSLR's come with a CMOS sensor instead
                    of a CCD sensor. The image clarity from a 6 MP CMOS sensor
                    is better than anything even the 8 MP p&s compact digicams
                    can achieve. I bought the 300D because of the sensor, not
                    because I could switch lenses.
        \_ Recent Popular Photography and Imaging magazine gave the edge
           to the Nikon D70 over the Canon Digital Rebel. It gives it a
           bang-for-the-buck edge over the D100.
                             \-D100 is really sleazy naming ... implying it
                               is a "digital f100" when it is a digital N80
                               which is an ok camera but not really a serious
                               camera like the F90 and higher. btw, i really
                               really really hate the G lenses ... i like
                               having aperture control on the lens. --psb
           \_ I just hate that the D70 has only ISO 200 minimum.
2004/6/3-4 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30578 Activity:nil
6/3     Digital Rebel Hacks:
        \_ It runs Datalight ROM-DOS?  Wow!
2004/5/25-26 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30412 Activity:insanely high
5/25    If her name is Masuimi, why does the tatoo on her arm say "Masumi"?
        Was she improperly credited on her first film and it was just never
        corrected or something? Inquiring minds want to know.
        (Not Work Safe, if hadn't guessed)
        \_ Since both are real names, I'll just trust the tattoo more than
           a credits list.
        \_ What kind of film are you talking about, a porn film?
          \_ Actually, I figured it out I think. I think it has to do with
             making oneself easily web-locatable when you are only using
             one name, as most porn stars do.
        \_ I think you need a hobby.
           \_ I think Woody Allen covered the response to that line.
              \_ By fucking his own step daughter?
        \_  her dad named her that.  the chars represent
           the pronunciation as her dad meant for it to be pronounced, though
           it should be katakana.  but then, she's not Japanese.
2004/5/24 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30390 Activity:high
        GoogleWar.  Your mom vs my mom.
        \_ csuawar, psb vs. tom. Who wins?
           \_ psb: 915. tom: 1128. tom wins.
              \_ is that really 'winning'?
                 \_ Hey, I just calls 'em, I don't qualify them.
2004/5/4-5 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30002 Activity:high
5/4     Um, so I asked the question yesterday about the Canon digital rebel
        and what problems people seem to say it has that prevents someone
        from moving beyond point-and-shoot yada yada. The kchang link reply
        wasn't helpful... anyone know what the deal is?
        \_ While we're on the topic, does anyone have a good article that
           explains white balance. is this an issue only in digital or film
           as well?
           \_ It's an issue in film development.
        \_ Go to the forums @ In fact, all digital camera
           questions should go there.
        \_ user interface.  Digital Rebel has terriable user interface to
           be operated manually (i.e. adjust both apature and shutter speed
           manually).  Having said that, the best teaching tools is
           go get a (used) 100% manual camera with a 50mm lens, and take
           black n white classes, you will be amazed how fast you improve.
           \_ I totally disagree; digital is a much better way to learn,
              because you take more pictures and get more rapid feedback
              about how they came out.  As for adjusting both aperture and
              shutter speed independently, how often is that really necessary?
              Aperture or shutter-priority mode with exposure compensation
              will handle almost all the needs of most photographers.  -tom
              \_ How often?  All the time if you know wtf you're doing and
                 want the best results.
              \_ it's two degree of freedom no matter what.  Digital
                 Rebel is not designed to tinker with both without pushing
                 tiny buttons to switch mode.   and, yes, Digital is much
                 more convinient than 35mm, but convinient doesn't equate
                 to better tool to learn.
                 To move beyond point n shoot requires dicipline, and
                 I've seen too many newbies lost his/her dicipline
                 completely with digital camera.  For beginners, it's
                 more important to *THINK* before shutter is pressed,
                 it's more important to use plain old center-weighted
                 meter to read different exposure situation (instead of
                 rely on AI).  Most beginner knows the existance of
                 exposure compensation, but they don't know when to
                 override the automatic meter.  Further more, B*W film
                 is known for unlenient latitude toward exposure.  Each
                 failed exposure means the image will not come out at all.
                 For digital camera, like all consumer product, a lot
                 of effort has put into software which automatically
                 making adjustments so the picutre turn out correctly.
                 That, combine with unknown characteristics of CCD/CMOS
                 exposure latitude, give newbies false sense of
                 \- i really really hate this recent trend in cameras/lenses
                    that make changing the aperture a pain in the ass ...
                    worst are ass lenses like the nikon Gs which have no
                    control ring. even on high end cameras prefer you
                    to use one of the on-body dials ... which just seems
                    difficult handle while trying to take pix quickly.
                    i think most people just care about composition for
                    fairly easy shots to take. digital is sort of a
                    brute force approach ... bracket like crazy and pick
                    your shots later. if that isnt an option you need to know
                    what you are doing. it ise usefulto have EXIF info
                    but i think few people end up going over this stuff.
                    "taking better pix" != learning photography. for the first,
                    go digital, if you can afford it. for the latter,
                    canon f-1, if you can afford it. --psb
        \_ When I was looking for a SLR digital camera I spoke to some of
           the pro/near-pro photographers at work about which canon to get
           (10D vs digital rebel). They all said that the 10D was overkill
           for someone learning photograhy and that the digital rebel was a
           much better choice. One said that while the ui wasn't the best
           for full-manual shooting (the reasons given above, plus a few
           more to do with the focal points) it was good enough to learn all
           the aspects of good photography without getting bogged down in
           the minutiae of a "true" pro camera. One or two told me that they
           had a digital rebel which they used for personal photography
           mostly because it was lighter and smaller than the 10D (and
           Personally, I feel that the digital rebel is a great camera
           (given that you get a pretty good lens w/ the camera for around
           $950 or so). I've learnt more about photography with it than I
           did with a fully manual camera mostly because it lets me take
           lots of photos and compare the results of my manual settings with
           those of the fully auto settings. I have played around with fully
           manual cameras (my dad is a photonut) but I could never get
           decent enough photos to stick with it and learn the nuances
           because it was too hard to get a decent photo (I would often
           leave my camera at home on trips, because no pictures was about
           the same as getting really crappy pictures, not so with the
           digital rebel). YMMV.
           \_ i read about someone german guy hacking the digital rebel ROM
                to unleash all the features in the more expensive 10d.
2004/5/4 [Consumer/Camera] UID:29980 Activity:nil
5/3     I remember this old comment in the archives (re: digital slr cameras)
        "Digital Rebel has some serious user-interface issue as a pedagogic
        tool to move user beyond point-n-shoot..." -kngharv
        What's the basis of that slam on the dig. rebel? Anyone agree with
        that sentiment?
2004/4/28-29 [Consumer/Camera] UID:13444 Activity:insanely high
4/28  Is B&H a decent place to buy a lens (compared to other online
      vendors)? tia.
        \_ I bought a sony TRV-22 and was pleased with result.
           \- yes. --psb
        \_ yes, B&H is good.
        \_ yep. I bought one from em yesterday. You can look at reviews
           at, and might want to use the clickthrough from there
           to support them (it's a very useful site). -chialea
        \_ I've blow over $1500 on them.  They can be trusted, though their
           electronic products are expensive.
                        - the guy who bought stuff from them predated their
        \_ Yes, they are extremely reliable from my experience. Another
           good vendor is Adorama. You just have to decide if you want
           black market or the real USA product.
           \_ damn, yuen, you beat me in that regard ---kngharv
           \_ gray market.
        \_ I've bought stuff from B&H about 20 times.  Lens, cameras,
           accessories, film, camcorder, etc., both USA and gray market.  Very
           reliable.  Their staff doesn't work on commision, so you can feel
           comfortable getting advice from them. is
           reliable too, but they only carry popular items and their film is
           expensive.  --- yuen
         \- bhphoto is the IBM of the photo world.
            or in soda-speak "bh is the standard". --psb
            \_ "Nobody ever got fired for buying B&H"
      \_ I've ordered from adorama and b&h.  adorama can be cheaper on some
         lenses, but they are slower and will put your order on hold to try
         to sell you more stuff.  But if you're patient, I think they can be
         trusted.  b&h has excellent service and much faster than adorama.
         But I've bought most of my lenses used from craigslist.
2004/4/21-22 [Consumer/Camera] UID:13316 Activity:nil
4/21    I'm looking for a good zoom lens for my 300D (Digital Rebel). Any
        recommendations as to which Canon EF-S (or other brands) to consider?
        How about buying a used lens from craigslist? tia.
        \_ stick with Canon lenses.  use ebay for used lenses.
                                     \- ebay has been a boon for sellers
                                        not buyers on things like lenses.
                                        might be ok for filters.
                                        often things in good cond
                                        sell for 90% of what you would
                                        pay to bhphoto. --psb
           what zoom do you want?  Digital Rebel has a 1.6x cropping factor
        \_ My guess is that you have no idea what you want, no? What kind
           of lenses do you want?  another places you can try (much better
           than ebay) is  Go for the "bargain" grade.
                        --happy keh customer who never own a single
                          new lenses
                \_ I'm looking for something like a 28-105mm or 28-135mm.
                   I mostly take pictures of wildlife (birds, &c.) while
                   I'm out hiking/traveling. I don't really need the wide
                   angle that the 18-55 provides but I also don't want to
                   carry two lenses, one for zoom and one for regular shots.
                   (I'm not sure if I explained that very well). I'll check
                   \_ then get the 28-135 then.  But don't forget
                      about that 1.6x
        \_ Tamron lenses are a good alternative to canon lenses, and
           somewhat cheaper.  There isn't too much drop off in quality. -meyers
        \_ Buy Nikon lens, they are better!!
2004/3/18-19 [Consumer/Camera] UID:12744 Activity:moderate
3/18    My camera can save a jpeg with normal, fine, or superfine
        compression.  Does anyone know numerically what this corresponds to?
        For example, maybe superfine is 99%, fine is 95%, and normal is 80%
        \_ It seems from your numbers that you're thinking backwards.  JPEG
           uses a lossy compression.  Normal would be more compressed (poorer
           quality), where super fine is probably uncompressed, and thus much
           higher quality.
        \_ not really sure, but i've noticed very few differences in quality
           on my camera (canon S45) on those jpeg settings. i save everything
           in RAW format anyway.
        \_ On mine it's roughly norma;=150k, fine=350k, super=1M
        \_ There is no standard for such numerical values.  What does "99%"
           mean?  99% of the size of the uncompressed image? (Commonly used
           compression levels give ~10:1 reduction in size.) 99% of the signal
           represented accurately in comparison to the uncompressed image?
        \_ how about you take the same shot 3 times and just look at the
           output file with a jpeg info viewer?
2004/2/20-22 [Consumer/Camera] UID:12332 Activity:low
2/20    I'm looking to take up photography.  I'd like a cheap beginner 35mm
        SLR camera.  I've heard Canon and Nikon were good.  Any rec for a
        budget of under $250?  Willing to get used.  Just don't know where
        to start.
        \- why do you want to shoot film? --psb
           \_ No matter how fancy you can get with digital, it's still
              more flexible, challenging, and rewarding to take
              pics with film. Especially if you eventually learn to
              develop film yourself. Anyway, I recommend a Nikon
              camera...they offer the best bodies and lenses. Try
              Abe's of Maine:
              \- are you the OP saying this? i dont mean my
                 question as a tendentious one. i shoot mostly
                 film too for "various reasons". frankly at
                 $250, i am not sure what to say. nikon stuff
                 tends to be a little more expensive than canon
                 so that might be a reason to go with canon.
                 the cheepest nikon lens i know of is the
                 50mm 1.8 for about $90 which is 40% of the
                 allocated budget. if you get a $10 uv filter
                 and a bag, probably 50% of the budget is left.
                 i think bhphoto >> all other photoshops. price
                 diff is nominal vs other tax free mail order.--psb
                        \_ oops, forgot he was on a $250 budget.
                 \_ I want to learn about general photography techniques.  I
                    currently have a digital camera(Canon S230) for just
                    taking regular pictures.  I was under the impression
                    that digital SLR cameras are fairly pricey, and I'd like
                    to slowly learn about and collect lenses before shelling
                    out a grand for a nice digital SLR.  I've been told one
                    of the brands (Canon or Nikon) series is good if I want
                    to go digital SLR later, since I'd be able to use the
                    same lens, but I can't find that info anymore. -op
                 \_ also, I'm not expecting a lot for $250.  I'm looking to
                    start out with just one lens, uv filter, and the body.
                    I'll shell out more dough as I learn more.  I've read
                    that it is possible to get decent used equipments at
                    this price.  I just don't know which equipments to buy
                    or which websites to read. -op
                    \- i wouldnt worry too much about "investment protection"
                       at the $250 level. if you get serious about photography
                       worrying about that small of an investment will just
                       generate friction. BTW, it woulds also be helpful if
                       you mentioned what your interest is ... if you want
                       to shoot around town a decent 50mm may be the way to
                       go. if you want to shoot outdoors, you will need
                       somethign wider, but wont need a fast lens. --psb
                       \_ As I'm just starting to get interested, I don't
                          have any clear purposes yet.  But I imagine I'll
                          use it to take architectural pix as well as some
                          outdoor scenery.  I went out and grabbed the
                          Canon Rebel TI from Costco, which came with a
                          35-80mm f/4-5.6 52mm lens.  (Have no clue if I'm
                          getting the lens terminology right.)  Any thoughts
                          on the body or the lens?  It looks like the body
                          has automatic settings, but also has I think ability
                          to do almost anything manual.  I got it from Costco
                          because I was told that they were clearing it out.
                          I can always return it if I don't like it. -op
                          \_ you made a good choice.  It's a starter SLR
                             camera.  Start with it.  As you get more
                             into it, you can start getting more
                             \_ I'm starting to read up on it, and I believe
                                the body is good, but I think the costco
                                package isn't that good of a deal.  The
                                $299 kit includes body, 35-80mm lens, battery,
                                8 rolls of films, and a camera bag.  I think
                                I'll go online and see if I can get the body
                                with a better lens.  What should I look for?-op
                    \_ you can buy good kits with lens for $250 or so.
                       Again, Nikon N55/N75 or almost any of the Canon
                       Rebel models.
                 \_ Please explain the "more flexible" comment.
                 \_ Are you sure you don't mean making prints yourself?
                    Developing is mostly following procedure.  Printing (at
                    least B&W) can be an art.  But then, you can do some
                    pretty nice things with digital.
                    \- this is not about "can do"; this is about a beginner
                       willing to spend $250.
        \_ it's hard to go wrong with Canon or Nikon.  What about a Canon
        \_ If Canon, then try the Canon Rebel.  If Nikon, try
           the Nikon N75 or the N55.  All can be had, with a lens,
           for $250 or less. is also
           an alternative
           \_ I actually really love my AE-1.  One step up from this would
              be the AE-1 Program.  Pretty much the only automatic features
              are auto-aperature (or auto shutter speed for the AE-1P).
              I like having immediate control over every setting on the
              camera, though.  Three types of control, three switches.  You
              can generally only buy these used any more.  One just sold on
              ebay for $112 with two lenses, flash and power winder.  -sax
           \_ I can't remember which model of Rebel Costco has, but they
              have a kit for $299, which I'm willing to shell out since
              Costco has a good return policy if I don't like it.  Anyone
              know offhand which model it is? carries different
              model from the one at the store. -op
              \_ I think you'll just have to visit costco and find out.
                 Or call them up.
           \- if the N75, N55 restrict you to the "G" lenses, i really
              hate those ... no ap control ring. --psb
2004/1/30-31 [Consumer/Camera] UID:12042 Activity:nil
1/30    Question on digital camera flash card format:  Which one do you
        prefer?  I'm finally thinking of getting a digital camera.  Some of
        the cards like xD or SD are really small.  Too small for me.  Only
        the compact flash seems to be big enough to put a small label so
        that I know what's in side.  Is that even possible with all the other
        smaller cards?  If you have one of those, where do you keep it if
        you're on the road or at home?  Seems like it can be lost very
        easily.  Thanks.
        \_Choose your camera first, sd is small but you really only need
          one extra card.  That is to say one large card (because the one
          they generally give you WILL be too small).  Once you have a larger
          card, don't buy more, just buy a x-drive or something (portable hd
          with a card reader). -scottyg
        \_ why don't you choose your camera first?
           \_ I have an olympus film camera.  Stylus.  I like it.  I thought
              of getting the same stylus digital camera.  It doesn't come with
              CF storage.  What to do?  If card format is an big enough issue
              I need to switch brands.  Just trying to poll you guys on what
              you think.  Thanks.
              \_ my opinion: choose camera first.  storage is a secondary
        \_ memory stick is teh suck
        \_ CF is big (physically and byte-wise) and cheap.  SD has good
           compatability with PDAs and MP3 players.
2004/1/27-28 [Consumer/Camera] UID:11959 Activity:moderate
1/27    Anyone have a recommendation for a decent digital SLR camera?
        A colleague told me about a decent Nikon (D2H) but the lenses
        seem to be pretty expensive.  I've also had a Canon (10D, 30D, 60D)
        but I saw an article a while back about blurry color quality
        around the edges of digital SLR pix, or is that dependent on
        the lens?  -John
        \_ Canon Digital Rebel...under $1k with lens.
           \_ seconded
        \_ The price of the lens should NEVER be part of the consideration
           for choosing a SLR of any kind.  Canon and Nikon and all other
           major camera makers make good products.  All their camera's
           capability is way beyond average user who can master it.  If you
           have Nikon lenses, then, choose a Nikon F-mount camera (which
           include Nikon, Fuji, and Kodak).  If you have Canon lenses, then,
           stick with Canon.  If you have neither, and got cash to burn,
           then, I would reluctant to suggest you get a Canon's digital rebel.
           If you are willing to wait a month or two, Nikon's D70 should be
           about the same price as Canon's Digital Rebel.
           The general rule of thumb is that if you are into photography,
           you will spend more money on lenses than camera body.  If you
           *REALY* into photography, you will spend even more money on
           lighting equipment than the lenses.  If you have more
           questions, email me  -- kngharv
           \_ well some pricing rules have changed with Digital.
              With film, yes, spend more on the lens.  But with digital,
              the lens bodies are pretty expensive.
              \_ digital Rebel is about 1000 USD.  I've bought lenses,
                 USED, on average, about $250 per lens.  Price of lenes
                 EASILY surpass price of camera.
                                   -owner of 7 lenses
                 \_ I'm talking about one lens vs. one camera body.
                    \_ Just get crayons.
                    \_ Then you're not into photography.  Most people into
                       photography have more lenses than bodies.   --- owner of
                       4 lenses, 1 2x converter, 2 bodies.
                       \_ I'm talking about the OP.  At first, you usually
                          start with one lens.  Later, you buy more.
                 \_ do you have a Nikon?  Canon?
                    \_ Nikon.  Mostly because I inheirted couple manual lenses
                       and a body from my father.  I have a Nikon FE
                       which my father bought at 1979, and a Nikkon N2020,
                       which is *MY* solution for auto-focused body without
                       spending $1000 on F100 which doesn't improve the
                       photographs directly.  N2020 was the first true
                       AF body from Nikon, discontinued in 1986 or something
                       like that.  Canon is much successful commercialy, but
                       I personally like Nikon because it's more rugged, and
                       that manual-focused lens can be mounted on Auto-focused
                       camera and vice versa.  I have bought manual 20mm f/4
                       and manual 500 f/4 reflex for REALLY cheap price
                       (AF equivalent would cost you price of an used Civic
                        for 500mm).   I want D2H because it can meter with
                        manual lenses, but I am not willing to spend $3500
                        for it just yet :p              -kngharv
           \_ Is the D70 based on the N70?  Does it have the same control
              \_ don't know.  the only info i got is from Nikon's japanese
                 page and I don't read Japanese.
        \_ Excellent advice, guys, appreciate it.  It turns out I may
           be able to get a good quality used D30 from someone I trust, which
           is probably preferable for getting into it.  -John
           \_ A D30 is ancient by today's standards. It's like buying an
              8086 computer when the pentiums are out, except the digital
              camera biz is going through their evolution much quicker.
              Better and cheaper days are already here.
                \_ "learn to walk before you can run".  It'd be a cheap
                   way to for me to learn the basics before I shell out $$
                   for something fancier.  And I assume any lenses I buy
                   will fit newer cameras.  -John
                   \_ Any digital camera is ok for making your own net.pr0n.
                      Remember people still have to download the stuff and
                      no one wants to wait or needs an image bigger than a
                      full single screen.
                      \_ A point well taken, but I am reminded of a photo-
                         journalist story of taking the perfect cover shot
                         for a magazine using a digital camera. By the time
                         they got thru readying the image, there has too
                         many artifacts (jaggies, etc.) for it to be used
                         for the cover, so they went with a regular film
                         image. Even with practice photography, you will
                         take some photo's near and dear to your heart, but
                         the possible detail you could have had will be lost.
                         Part of learning, is also using photoshop or whatever
                         to do cropping and other image enhancements, and you
                         *will* notice the lack of quality then.
                \_ be careful.  the new EF-S lenses will only fit
                   the digital rebel!
                \_ beware of the D30.  It may have some problems.
                   And you'll have to buy a lense as well.
                   The Digital Rebel is a much better deal.
                \_ John, I actually disagree with above.  Digital Rebel
                   has some serious user-interface issue as a pedagogic
                   tool to move user beyond point-n-shoot (that is why I
                   was RELUCTANT to recommend Digital Rebel at first place.)
                   If you are THINKING about moving beyond point&shoot,
                   an used D30 is a much better choice.  The lens you buy for
                   that camera would last a lot longer than the camera body,
                   and the lens tend to hold its value very well in case you
                   want to sell it in /  Having said that,
                   D30 is an older technology and CCD/CMOS photo sensors is
                   evolving very fast.  What you sacrafice is little things
                   such as much higher noise level at low-light, white fringes
                   on bright subject against dark background, and less flexible
                   auto white-balancing.  Check out sample photo at
          and <DEAD><DEAD> and decide rather you
                   can tolerate that or not.    -kngharv
                                                 (7 lenses, 2 body, macro
                                                  rings, filters, etc)
2004/1/27 [Consumer/Camera, Reference/Military] UID:11953 Activity:nil
1/26    Yes psb, go on this one:
        You can bring a large camera.  When the boat goes fast, it will
        kick up spray and you will need to hold onto something with both
        hands or sit down.  When it's near a whale, the boat will slow down,
        then you can whip it out.
        \_ Heh heh, he said 'whip it out'.
           \- helo, would you recommend a tripod? if so, a full-sized
              [say  4-5 ft high] one or a small hiking tripod?
              also has anyone used an image-stabilized lens over water?
              does it work or do weird things happen? --psb
              \_ I didn't see anyone use a tripod, and it seems difficult
                 with all the rolling around.  People did bring big cameras
                 though.  pretty bouncy, and it was a calm day!
2004/1/25-26 [Consumer/Camera] UID:11933 Activity:kinda low
1/25    When I use my digital camera, there is an obvious difference in photo
        quality depending on the resolution chosen, as would be expected.
        However, changing the compression changes the quality very little,
        but the size in kB a lot.  In fact, a picture taken at medium
        resolution with superfine compression uses 50% more memory, but is
        clearly lower quality compared with a high resolution picture taken
        with normal compression.  So I wonder what compression other sodans
        use on their digital camera.  The imagine quality between normal
        and fine compression seems to be very little, but it's more than 2x
        more kB.
        \_ Just get a big card and take the largest photos your camera can.
           If you throw away detail in the camera, you can never get it back;
           and you won't know what photos you need the detail in until you
           look at the results.  Reducing resolution or increasing compression
           both lose details, in different ways.  512MB flash cards cost $100.
           \_ This is a good answer.  --digital camera guy
        \_ my experience shows that the exact opposite is true:
           if space is an issue, I go lower res but keep high quality jpeg.
        \_ I use the finest JPEG quality in case I have to reprocess the
           image later.  I agree that there is diminishing returns as you go to
           higher quality, but you don't want to throw away quality you can
           never get back.  Doing image retouhing or editing on heavily
           compressed photos can be bad because of artifacts and recompression.
            \_ To clarify this: JPEG compression throws away features of the
               image you can't see.  For example, if your picture is dark, you
               won't be able to see the details clearly; JPEG recognizes that
               and throws the details away to save space.  That's fine, until
               you try to lighten the image in Photoshop so you can see it

               This is the same reason you can get scanners with 48-bit color,
               even though the human eye can't perceive more than 24-bit:
               because the editing you do on the scanned image might bring
               out things that weren't visible in the original.
               \_ more like no output devices can support more than 24-bit...
                  our eyes have incredible dynamic range (high noon to
                  starlight).  [formatted]
                  \_ I seem to recall the human eye has a dynamic range of
                     around 10^5, not all at once, as the following poster
                     \_ the problem is, RGB is linear, but the response of
                        our eyes is not.  Much of that 24 bits is wasted
                        in areas our eyes can't distinguish, and there
                        isn't enough concentration in the areas where our
                        eyes perform well.  -tom
                   \_ That's true: the eye can distinguish a good deal more
                     than 256 shades of grey total, by adapting to different
                     brightness conditions.  However, you can only see 40 to
                     50 shades *at a time*, so that's all you would ever need
                     in a single image.
            \_ Sorry for my ignorance, but what do you mean by reprocessing?
               \_ He probably meant post-processing like via Photoshop.
            \_ Ditto what this guy/gal is saying. I would go one step further
               and take photo's in your camera's raw setting (if it has it).
               From the raw formet you can make high-quality tiff's or any
               level of compression of jpeg you want. You will need to do
               some photoshop stuff to make them look nicer, though.
        \_ So what is the least compression, superfine?
           \_ yes.  Superfine, fine, and then normal.
2004/1/22-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:11876 Activity:nil
1/21    How difficult is it to charge a digital camera overseas?  Do
        chargers work in other countries?
        \_ make sure you have those travel voltage converters.
        \_ depends on the camera/charger.  Our canon G2 has the same kind
           of ac/dc converter as laptops, so we don't need a voltage converter,
           just a plug converter, which is *much* cheaper/lighter.  Make sure
           your converter handles the full range before doing this, though!
        \_ Depends on your camera. I didn't have any problems charging
           the battery for my 300D in India and Singapore. All I needed
           was a plug point adapter to convert the US 2 pin to the
           native 3 pin.
        \_ are you bringing your laptop with you?  Or lots of CF cards?
           \_ 1 GB cards
                \_ you will be a prime mugging victim.
                   \_ those muggers can spot a 1gb card from miles away....
                      \_ the camera looks very tempting though.
                         \_ so does an empty one.
                         \_ can't speak for muggers everywhere but in
                            asia almost everyone has a digicam so its
                            not like you will be targeted for having a
2004/1/2-5 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/Companies/Google, Computer/Theory] UID:11648 Activity:nil
1/2     Computer science question for you PHDs out there.  What would be
        the feasibility of a program that, given a set of images that form
        a mosaic, produce the "most correct" composite image, based upon some
        definition of correctness that could be supplied in advance (color
        compatibility, smoothness of lines, etc)?  For instance, such a
        mosaic could be a 360 series of photos that form a panoramic
        photograph.  Such a program wouldn't necessarily need to be perfect,
        and any of amount of "hints" could be given to the program as well
        as the input images.  This might already exist, or it might be solving
        the halting problem - I don't know.  I'm asking the question for a
        materials science post-doc friend of mine that is working with
        crystal lattice images.  --lye
        \_ Does the camera rotate as it takes pictures?  Is there overlap
           between individual images?  At its most general, this problem
           involves object recognition and so is vision-hard.
           There are some papers on this problem, google for obvious things
           to find them.
        \_ such programs exist. if the camera undergoes pure rotation
           and no translation about the optical center, the problem is
           very easy to solve (assuming overlap between the views). other-
           wise it's harder and you have to rely on some kind of
           approximation because you need to know the 3D geometry of the
           scene. other things that help: if you know the exact motion of
           the camera, the problem is easy again. -ali
        \_ There is a ton of literature on this kind of problem, which is
           known as "registration." A standard approach is to define some
           kind of error function (distance between edges, or distance
           between overlapping pixels in color space, etc) and try to minimize
           it over the space of transformations. An algorithm that works well
           for a lot of problems of this type in the pairwise case is called
           "iterative closest point," due to Besl and McKay. If you don't
           know an approximate solution to start with, it is a lot
           more difficult. -lewis
           \_ homeslide, iterative closest point requires you to know
              the 3D geometry of the scene to perform registration.
              altneratively, you need some kind of parametric transformation
              model for your images.
2003/11/13-14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:11053 Activity:nil
11/12   What's the difference between a pixel value and an RGBA value?  My
        understanding is that RGBA is a 32-bit int w/ 8 bits each for red,
        blue, green, and alpha, but I don't know how that maps to a pixel
        \_ A pixel "value" is your perception of the light that comes
           out of the pixel on the screen. Look at the pixel; you see
           white. That's the "value". In color monitors, this corresponds
           to the combination of the contributions of the red, green, and
           blue guns. Out of RGBA, only RGB contribute (A is opacity and
           is used for intermediate computation). RGB can be in any format -
           OpenGL supports float or 8-bit int (among others) per channel -
           but in general there's a maximum value (in 8 bits, 0xff) that
           maps to the maximum brightness. For more details:
           \_ A pixel 'value' is actually an integer, not a perception of
              the light. -- nitpick.
           \_ Great Answer -!op
           \_ So a pixel is simply a set of color values at the appropriate
              \_ No, it's the sum of red light, blue light, and green light.
                 (Why RGB? You have receptors in your eyes that match those
                 three frequencies.) It has nothing to do with transparency.
                 Transparency is only used for intermediate calculations
                 (google "Porter-Duff Compositing")
        \_ Yermom told me all about your "pixel"
        \_ By the same token, why do graphics cards have 32 bit color and not
           just 24 bit ("true") color? Also, I always run windows/games in
           16bit, because it's good enough for most things. when does 32bit
           color really make things look better?
           \_ A graphics card's "32 bit color" is RGBA (8 bits for each).
              The monitor only shows RGB. So they are the same. Your eye
              can distinguish roughly 1% gradations in intensity, so you
              might think you only need 100 color values per channel not
              256. But because of "gamma" (nonlinear eye response, which is
              partially corrected in the monitor, see the faq above) the
              possible values of each channel are not distributed evenly
              across what you can perceive. The only real place more than
              8 bits / channel is used is medical applications like xrays
              where radiologists usually use about 12 bits/channel (and that's
              just 12 bits of gray, not colored at all). Summary: 8 bits
              per channel is about all that's needed; you wouldn't notice
              much if at all if you had more bits per channel.
           \_ I can tell the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit color. (It's
              easier with some images than others.) Even when transparency
              effects aren't used, 32-bit sometimes is preferred over 24-bit
              simply because the hardware can shuttle around double-words more
              readily than 1.5 words.
           \_ also, the card is advertising framebuffer and gpu features
              that affect intermediate calculations as well as final
              presentation.  extra bits helps prevent a lot of visible
              artifacts from poorly normalized colors during steps like
              alpha compositing, texture mapping, and multi-pass rendering.
2003/10/20-21 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10705 Activity:nil
10/20   Yahoo! News - David Blaine Being Tested at Hospital
        Why is he called a magician when all he does is plain stunts?
        \_ he is a magician who uses his stunts to get notoriety
        \_ Dood: Itz Street Magic. What up?
        \_ How does he do the self levitation trick? Is that just by using
           an upward momentum or some device is his shoes?
                \_ The Masked Magician guy revealed this on one of his Fox
                   specials. It's totally lame. It's part camera tricks, part
                   editing, and all he really does is get on his tippy toes.
                   \_ What?  You mean magic isn't real?  You mean I'll never
                      learn to defy physics?
                        \_ What I'm saying, smartass, is that it would have
                           actually been cool if he did make some trick device
                           hidden in his shoe. But all the entire trick is
                           just lame camera tricks. Here's an URL showing just
                           how lame it is:
                           \_ Oooooh, anti-gravity shoes!  yeah!  that would
                              be cool.  If I built some AG shoes I'd use them
                              in my magic act too.
                           just lame camera tricks.
2003/10/20 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10696 Activity:nil
10/19   Any recommendations on where to find reviews/comparisons of digital
        cameras?  I'm not exactly sure what I am looking for I was looking
        at a Fuji FinPix 3800, but it seems like it might be a bit more
        than I need.  I'm pretty amateur photographically.
           \_ Seriously. This is THE site.
           \_ The site seems very usefull, but it is way over my head
              I'm afaid.  I can't really use the buying guide as it
              require more technical expertise than I have. E.g.
              The units for zoom and tele-zoom are not familiar to me.
              \_ Go to the forums on the site.
           \_ is also good.
           \_ A related question, do interpolated pixels add any data
              or is this like optical zoom where you could do it
              all in software afterward?
              \_ In general, interpolation is bad. You are losing picture
                 info. This is what's done with digital zoom. You can do
                 the equivalent of digital zoom by taking a picture with
                 optical zoom only, and then cropping the picture using
                 software. The more mega-pixels, the better, when you
                 want to do cropping.
                 \_ Well one of the camers was claiming native
                    2048x1536 and 2816 x 2120 (interpolated)
                    should I just ignore the interpolated  number,
                    or is it capturing CCD data I may not get otherwise?
                    \_ Yes, just ignore anything with digital
                       zoom/interpolated stuff.
              \_ you have optical and digital zoom mixed up.  Optical zoom is
                 good; digital zoom is bad and can be done in Photoshop.
                 \_ Yeah, I was thinking one thing and typed another.
        \_ Canon PowerShot A60.  All the newbies love it.  A little heavy --
           post again if you want a lighter one.  Basically you want one
           with 3x zoom and a real viewfinder (not just LCD).
           \_ If you want light, go for the new Sonys. My coworker has one
              that is as light as a disposable. Oh, and he's happy with the
              picture quality. Myself, I have a Canon Powershot S45. Heavy,
              but quality is quite nice, even in dummy (mostly auto) mode.
           I especially like how they have the time it takes for each camera
           to snap a picture from when you hit the button.
2003/10/14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10619 Activity:nil
10/13 speaks for itself on
        why there's still no peace and no hope of peace in the middle east.
2003/10/8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10521 Activity:nil
10/7    To the photo idiot below-- learn something about aperature, shutter
        speed, focus, and how everything else relate to each other. A cheapo
        Pentax K1000 full manual with a decent lense will cost about $150
        and a book on photography will cost you about $20. It'll be a much
        much better investment than trying to find a good photo development
        place cuz in these days, photo development is precise enough that
        it's really hard for the common naked eyes to discern any difference.
        \_ I like how you assume the guy is a photo idiot.
           How do you know that person isn't a person who is experienced
           with film cameras, and has just moved into the Digital
           World with DSLR equipment and would like to know the
           digital world better.
        \_ only thing special about digital photography is that it replaces
           chemical emulsion as a mean to record images.  Everything else,
           apature, shutter speed, DOF, and even the size of film / CCD
           sensor and its relationship with photo quality is still the same.
           I wouldn't go as far as getting a beat up Pentax K1000 and shooting
           B&W filem, but I do think buying a book on casual photography
           would do *MORE* to help the guy with his photo than trying to
           find out the best development lab in the area.  The truth is,
           in the past, what differentiate good lab from bad one are their
           quality on film development (oppose to making prints), and things
           like rather they would scratch the negatives, or get dusts on the
           negatives, etc. None of these qualities applies to digital
           photography.  So, in a way, asking for a good lab is not really
           a smart question, photo quality is determined as soon as you
           press the shutter.
        \_ photo idiot?  hey nice way to lend a hand on the motd, bruiser.
           do you break old lady's legs so they can use motorised wheelchairs
           to cross the street?  it's so much more efficient.
2003/10/7-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10508 Activity:moderate
10/7    To the photo development guy below. Yes, where you develop makes
        a difference, but it is relatively minute compared to the camera
        you use. The difference between a good camera and a bad camera is
        a lot more noticeable than a good/bad development place. My
        suggestion is to get a SLR camera and compare it with a PnS camera
        and you'll see what I mean.
        \_ Oh, I wasn't at all saying that the camera quality isn't
           important.  I agree 100%.  I was simply providing correct
           information about the development and printing process side.
           To get the truly best quality, you need both a good camera and
           Kodak equipment and materials, and knowing how to take pictures
           never hurt either.  :-)
        \_ why are you assuming that I have a crappy PnS? - OP below
        \_ To put this in soda geek's terms, Kodak vs Fuji development
           is like Dell vs Gateway (I am not saying which one is
           better, just as an example). You'd get much better results
           by buying a faster CPU, more memory, faster HD, etc. ie,
           getting a better camera, a decent SLR, a better lens, and
           learn something about photography. All these things will
           make your picture look a lot better than trying to squeeze
           the 1-2% difference between the $15000 Kodak and Fuji
           machines using your $200 digicams.
           \_ what if you have a 5-6mp camera and just want the best
                quality to show off your 5-6mp pictures?
           \_ $15000?  Heh, more like $500,000 for the top end stuff.  Ignore
              me, I'm just moody and twittish today.  ;-)
           \_ what if camera is a 6mp camera?  Which processing service
                appears to be the best?
              \_ you have too much money.
              \_ If you take good enough pictures so that it would matter,
                 you probably already have (should have?) your own photo
                 social circle, either in real life or on some photo site.
2003/10/6-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10495 Activity:moderate
10/6    Photo people: What's the best developing service?  In terms
        of quality?  Price?  Value?  Digital pictures.
        \_ How do you "develop" a digital picture?
           \_ you know what I mean.  What's the proper word then?
              \_ "process"
        \_ developing what? film? digital? portraits?
           \_ sorry.  Digital Pictures.  I modified the original post.
        \_ You want online or offline?
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
              \_ no. why do you need them to do it? I'd do it myself if it
                 needs any adjustments. They crop the center by default to
                 make your image fit on 4x6. on some images you may want to
                 crop it yourself. they take CD, compactflash, etc...
                 \_ Good advice. I heard similar advice in some photo mags
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
                    about adjusting the photo yourself, so that a machine
                    doesn't adjust your image incorrectly (e.g., make your
                    snow look gray) or crop out the face of your loved one.
                    You can take control of how your photo's turn out by
                    using photoshop (elements, 7.0, or similar) and a little
                    knowledge on how to best do this.
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
              \_ nonsense. Costco also has Kodak machines for their 35mm
                 development. I use it regularily. The fuji-digital prints
                 are excellent quality compare to the 35mm Kodak processing.
                 If anything, the differences are film/digital rather than
                 the printing machine. The 35mm prints looks 'better' because
                 I have better photo gears, but the printing quality is more
           \_ either.
        \_ I use costco. $0.19 per print at 4x6. picture quality
           is excellent at the Sunnyvale store. It does show some sharpening
           artifects, but i think all digital printing service do. they
           uses Fuji machines and print on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, the
           same machine that prints the 35mm photos.
           \_ do they do contrast and brightness adjustments?
           \_ Nah, that's just the Fuji machines they're using.  Go some place
              that uses Kodak.  Don't settle for less than the best.  It isn't
              becuase you're digital.
        \_'s got the best quality.
           \_ nonsense.  they use the same fuji crap that costco uses.  if
              you want Kodak quality you need to go to a place that uses
              Kodak equipment, paper, etc.  That isn't Ofoto.
              \_ either you or ofoto are mistaken, becasue they claim that
                 a) they're a "kodak company" and b) they print on kodak
                 paper, at least. -chialea
                 or less the same.
        \_'s got the best quality.
           \_ nonsense.  they use the same fuji crap that costco uses.  if
              you want Kodak quality you need to go to a place that uses
              Kodak equipment, paper, etc.  That isn't Ofoto.
              \_ either you or ofoto are mistaken, becasue they claim that
                 a) they're a "kodak company" and b) they print on kodak
                 paper, at least. -chialea
                 \_ They don't claim to use Kodak printers, scanners,
                    development equipment, processes, chemicals or anything
                    else.  Know why?  Because they don't.  The paper is the
                    least important part of it.  They imply the rest but
                    won't and can't say it because it isn't true.  Call them
                    up and ask what model equipment they use and who makes it.
                    It's Fuji.
2003/10/6 [Computer/HW, Consumer/Camera] UID:10489 Activity:nil
10/7    photography people, what online gallery (other than your own machines
        do you use (if any) to display your work samples?
                The page cannot be found. er, uh...
            \_ works for me, though I clicked on services and got this page:
               the site went down 2-3 times in one year. usually for less
               than a day. I guess you get what you pay for.
2003/7/14-15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:29035 Activity:insanely high
7/14    My girlfriend's mom wants a digital camera for < $200 (after tax,
        shipping, accessories).  I've narrowed choices to:
        FinePix 2650    Big, a year old
        FinePix A303    > $200, smaller than above, also a year old
        Minolta E223    New - can't find user reviews though
        Nikon 2500      Slow boot, swivel lens easy to imprint with fingers
        Canon A60       > $200, new
        Canon S200      > $250, a year old, but popular
        All of the above have optical zoom.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!
        \_ Coolpix 2100 just came out. $213 on
        Canon A60       > $200, new
           $199 with shipping. Hope she is happy with the 8MB
           memory card though.
           \_ $25 ground shipping to L.A.
              \_ Crap. Buy the A40 then.
        Canon S200      > $250, a year old, but popular
        All of the above have optical zoom.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!
        \_ Why not S230? They just dropped the price. Amazon has it for
           $309 w/ a $50 Gift Certificate, so that's $259...
           \_ Actually, the S230 is offered by another store through Amazon,
              so the $50 deal doesn't apply.  There used to be two links
              for the S230 (one where the rebate was applicable), but no more.
              The link is outdated now, I guess.
        \_ What's wrong with optical zoom?  Tried ebay?
           \_ Optical zoom is good, it's just I have no idea what are the
              good non-opt zoom cameras.  ebay ... well, it's for a mom.
        \_ figure out what she wants:
                size?  Quality?  UI?  Simplicity/ease of use?  features?
           \_ She wants it to be < $200.  Seems like she's delegating the
              rest of the choices to me.
              \_ that reduces the selection quite a bit.  which are
                 < $200?
                 \_ The ones above that don't say > $200/$250.
        \_ How about Samsung Digimax 240? $180 at Amazon.
        \_ I don't think she needs >2MP, but the Canon A300 is $200 for
           a 3MP camera (no optical zoom).
        \_ Thanks for the advice.  It looks like it's between the FinePix
           A303, Nikon CoolPix 2100, and Canon A60 (the $50 deal
           does apply for the A60, which can bring down the price with a $250
           set of purchases).  We'll go to Best Buy and look at all three.
           FYI, the FinePix A310 has been released but not in the states. -op
           does apply for the A60, which can bring down the price with $250
           of qualifying purchases).  We'll go to Best Buy and look at all
           three.  FYI, the FinePix A310 has been released but not in the
           states.  The Minolta E223 and Samsungs just aren't used by many
           people. has been very helpful, too. -op
           people.  Also, you can get the bulky FinePix 2650 for ~ $135 if
           you can spend $71 more at on qualifying items.
  has been very helpful, too. -op
2003/7/13-15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:29021 Activity:high
7/13    A friend wants to make a documentary with a digital camcorder. She has
        about a $3000 budget, give or take, for the camera alone (not tripod
        and such). People seem to recommend Canon. Anyone here have one? Is
        there something else she should look into? If she doesn't have to
        spend her whole budget so much the better. She's new to this digital
        stuff, but not to film making. She's considering the XL1S and GL2.
        Still images aren't needed and wouldn't be used. --dim
        \_ I've used both Sony & Canon. Canon's have slightly better
           optics, Sony's don't break as much. All generalizations are false.
        \_ The GL series is not a "real" camera- try using zoom and focus
           and you'll see what I mean.  Of those two models, the XL is the
           camera of choice for indie filmmakers- I've been on several shoots
           camera of choice for indie film makers- I've been on several shoots
           with the XL and it worked out fine.  Bonus points for use of
           you'll blow u pthe camera).  Also note the XL's tendency to
           Canon's other lenses with the XL (you need an adapter though or
           you'll blow up the camera).  Also note the XL's tendency to
           "idle out" (turn off when not in use) is painful but that's really
           the only bad thing about it.         -brain
        \_ Why not Sony VX2000?  It's almost the same as the Sony's
           professional version (PD150).  From what I understand, both
           are highly regarded.  According to Canon site, XL1S doesn't
           actually have enough pixels to cover full DV resolution.
           GL2 and VX2000 do.  GL2 uses smaller CCD, though.  I don't
           know why I'm even saying all this since I'm not all that
           knowledgeable about these things, but I can tell you that
           if I were buying one for myself, I'd get the VX2000 or
           PD150.  At least, all the mentioned units have separate
           CCDs for the primary colors.  Most of the consumer crap
           \_ Sony makes some nice cameras, to be sure, and the VX2000
              is very nice.  Both the Canon XL and the Sony VX are known
              as "prosumer" and get used for independently-produced
              films quite a bit.  Let me know what you decide on.   -brain
              \_ he's really making a low-budget porn flick and behind the
                 scenes of so he can more with that flick than he did as SW E
        \_ Maybe you can just rent one...perhaps from Adolph Gasser.
           \_  Whoops.  You're totally right, I didn't even think of that.
               If you are making this film in the bay area, check out your
               local public access station for very cheap equipment rentals.
               For example the Palo Alto station has cameras for $10 / day.
       is their home page (click on "Producing")
               See also the SF Film Arts Foundation at
               Also check out their links on that same site     -brain
        \_ Theres a new HD camera that does 720P/30 that is supposed to
           be pretty cool.  See -ax
           \_ Saw this, but wondered about the low price tag. If it's that
              great then why is it cheap (relatively)? I'm skeptical. --dim
2003/7/10-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28997 Activity:high
7/10    Hello,
        Beau Bonneau Casting is doing some reshoots for The Matrix 3.  We
        are currently looking for one photo double. We are looking for a
        Caucasian woman in her 20's - 30's very physically fit with dark
        hair that has a boys (buzz cut) hairdo. If you know of anyone that
        fits this type please have them call 415.777.1114 a.s.a.p. Only
        those fitting the type should call. We are only looking for a photo
        double. Please do not reply to this email.  Thanks.
        \_ trinities need not apply.
        \_ what if i'm an early 30s slightly brownish white guy with dark
           hair i'm willing to cut and im not too fat?  thats pretty close
           right?  do i get the glasses, black outfit and non-makeup makeup?
           \_ Score!  They called me in and loved me!  Next time you wankers
              are getting off to CAM's photo it might be me if "she" has
              the dark glasses on.
        \_ what are photo doubles for?
           \_ Mostly for the posters and other 'sexy' shots that go out to
              the public.  She doesn't have time for that.  I'm going to be
              unfamous!  --white guy in trinity outfit and glasses
2003/7/7-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28948 Activity:nil
7/7     Anyone has a digital SLR camera like the Nikon D-100 or the Canon EOS
        10D?  Do they have mechanical shutter curtains in front of the CCD just
        like their film counterparts do in front of the film?  Thanks.
        \_EOS D10 Does
2003/5/23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28537 Activity:very high
5/23    What's the best/cheapest place for 4x6 photos? Walmart is $.26,
        clubphoto is $.25, and snapfish is $.25 (in bulk).
        \_ Are you talking about one roll of unprocessed film or individual
        \_ If you are talking about prints for digital camera, Costco
           prints them at $.19 per photo.
           \- perfect.
2003/5/15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28443 Activity:low
5/14    I'd like to get my mom the most simplistic digital camera possible for
        mother's day.  My priorities are
        1) simplicity
        2) an LCD screen so she can see what she just shot
        3) some sort of CF-like storage so she can take it on long vacations
        4) price (or durability)
        5) picture quality
        Any recommendations?
        \_ I'd look at a lowend Canon or an HP.
        \_ Aren't you a few days late? Or really early for 2004?
           \_ Just a bad son, which is why it's a camera and not flowers/card.
        \_ Canon A200 / A300 (200 is 2 megapixel, 300 is 3 megapixel)
           Olympus D390 (2 megapixel).  These 3 cameras are pretty easy
           to use (especially the Olympus).  They don't have zoom, that is
           why they are cheap and the photo quality is pretty damn good.
           From my experience (for my parents), it's easier for them to
           operate a non-zoom camera.  If you really want zoom, you can
           look at Olympus D380
2003/5/8-9 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28378 Activity:high
5/8     I'm about to buy an Olympus C-4000 digital camera. Anyone
        wanna talk me out of it?
        \_  go to - some criticism on it or the 3000z
        \_ I've found especially the forums, quite
           invaluable when it comes to making these decisions.
          \_ Thanks! I think I've changed my mind now b/c of this. -op
2003/4/26-28 [Consumer/Camera] UID:28232 Activity:high
4/25    I'm looking for an inexpensive ($400 or less) digital camera.
        Toshiba has some inexpensive ones, and i have been happy with
        my toshiba laptop and projector.  Though the Sony ones aren't
        much more expensive.  Any advice?
        \_ canon sc230 digital elph.  (You can get the s400 for a bit
           over 400 online)
           \_ have you used this? I've been eyeing this model for a
           can get the 4500 for around $350 after rebate. I've had the
           950 (which is an older similar model) for a long time and
           I've been happy with it. I'm considering upgrading.
           I've been happy with it. I'm considering upgrading. Whatever
              while now and trying to decide if I should get it. the
              cnet reviews seem good... feedback anyone? - !op
                  \_ Mail me offline.  I got mine a week ago and I have
                     a guarded positive opinion.  Tiny, fast, but it
                     is purely a point and shoot. -jor
                        \_ aspolito has one as do I.  They rule.  -ax
                         \_ yes it's true, I actually agree with ax -aspo
                                \_ We are one step closer to world peace thanks
                                   to technology.  Here's why I bought the S400
                                   The reviews and sample pics did it for me.
        \_ Nikon Coolpix are nice and they have some rebates now. You
           can get the 4500 (4 MP) for around $350 after rebate. I've
           had the 950 (which is an older similar model) for a long time
           and I've been happy with it. I'm considering upgrading. Whatever
           you decide to get, make sure you see it in a store and don't
           just buy online without knowing exactly what you're getting.
        \_ I recommend Canons and Nikon's (as two above have hinted).
           They are generally pretty good.  They have lots of experience
           with cameras and optics.
        \_ I love my Olympus D-550 3 Mpix camera (2.8x optical zoom)
           Bought it for $300 @ costco
        \_ Canon Powershot A300 is new and great bang/buck ratio
           (3MP for $200).
2003/2/9-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:27354 Activity:moderate
2/8     I'm looking for a picture of SFMOM, one from the outside that
                                        \_ ob yermom
        includes as much of the building as possible. doesn't
        seem to have any and I've tried looking elsewhere. Anyone
        know where a photo like this might be? Thanks.
        \_ oops, SFMOMA -op
           A side view of the whole exterior and one of the signature tower.
2003/1/29 [Consumer/Camera] UID:27236 Activity:high
1/29    "Would you like to have this phone?  Or would you like to have the
        phone holder?" (
        \_ Hmm. Off by one error. I had to go to the next one to see it.
        \_ (siemens photo of a tatto'd guy w/ the phone)
2003/1/5 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26994 Activity:low
1/4     BTW, to the person who wanted a card reader which can read
        smartmedia, cardbus, and other formats, all in one reader, such
        a thing DOES exist.  I saw it in a camera store, of all places.  --PM
        \_ was it Firewire (as the poster originally requsted)?  There are
           plenty of USB ones that can read a multitude of flash formats.
2002/12/26-28 [Science/Battery, Consumer/Camera] UID:26919 Activity:kinda low
12/25   Just got a digital camera that uses AA. The batteries die after 30
        minutes (Coolpix 2000). Should I go NiCd, NiMh or LiIon? Or exchange
        the Coolpix 2000 for the 2500 (+$60)?
        \_ If you like your current camera, go for the NiMH batteries (check
           out for your camera review). The 2500 seems
           pretty cool...but with most things, get the best that you can
           afford - depending on your level of interest in photography.
        \_ Regular batteries have too much internal resistance and so the
           camera will see dropping voltage very quickly as it draws
           significant amount of current.  NiMH will do you good here.
        \_ 1850mAh NiMH should do the trick. $13 at Amazon/Circuit City.
           \- for AA in flashes i use Varta batteries. might try those. --psb
2002/12/23-25 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26892 Activity:high 50%like:25913
12/23   Are there SLR digital cameras?
        \_ Not Really.  Yes, there are SLRs, but they are not true
           "35mm" SLRs.  The CCD is not the same size as the film
           (24mm X 36mm), as result, the lens  you have will not
           be the same effective focal length nor apature.
           a 50mm f/1.4 will become something like 70mm f/2.3
                        -- photo geek still waiting
                           \- there are now 35mm SLR but they are $$$.
                              and the essence of an "SLR" isn't the
                              35mm part, who while the caveat is reasonable
                              "not really" overstates things. in fact there
                              are even larger format digitals take a look
                              at bhphoto. --psb
                                \_ well, for me, the important aspect of
                                   SLRis being able to use dozen lenses
                                   I already have.
                                   \_ then you are limited by the brand
                                      of lenses you currently have.
        \_ Yes.
        \_ yes.  you can add regular lenses to them.  They cost at least
           $2000 without the lense.
        \_ D30s (3mp) are available on ebay for ~1200.
           \_ would you trust buying anything from ebay over $1000?
              \_ Sure.  Know the seller.  Most are camera shops with a
                 virtual presence via Ebay.
              \_ I bought a $2K laptop over eBay... no problems.
        \_ Olympus makes one for about a G. Not that I would ever buy Olympus..
2002/11/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26551 Activity:high
11/15 -- a photo I made in Boston.   -- misha.
                \_ yeah and your point is?
                   \_ Um.. what the fuck?  the overwhelmingly beligerent
                      tone of the motd getting you a little trigger happy?
                   \_ my point: delete the entry if you don't like it. -- misha.
        \_ Is there some connection between the poster and the reflection?
           is there some message I'm not getting? -dense about eminem
        \_ I don't get it.  also I think it's funny your .mac
           javascript photo album thing won't work on internet
           explorer on the mac i am viewing this on right now.
           \_ it works for me.  but just in case, I mirrored it on
     .  -- misha.
              \_ So are you the one with the baby in the boston photos?
2002/11/12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26519 Activity:high
11/12   What is the deal with Kim on '24'?  --nmpg
        Implants                .
        She's all growns up
        It's all a camera trick
        \_ URL please?
          \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ Push-up bra?
        \_ Those aren't that big, are they?
           \_ compared to when she was 12, yes.
              \_ I see.
           \_ Exactly. Which shots are you referring to? They actually seem
              bigger in her FHM / Maxim shoots than in 24.
        \_ She's like a pushed up B cup.  Why are you even posting this?
2002/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/911, Consumer/Camera] UID:26411 Activity:very high
11/4    Anyone has any URLs to the nude pictures of a female star published in
        in a magazine Hong Kong a week or so ago that brought the magazine to
        closure?  Thanks.
        \_ do you want the nude pix of the nepalese actress that got her to
           kill herself too?
           kill herself too? well a lot of people are agitating about this
           in nepal. there were also allegagtions she was a ho.
           oh this newspaper is on the weeb but it might be hard for
           most of you white people to read. i guess you can look at the
           pictures. see e.g.
           \_ psb, silly boy, look harder:
              You know, for the white people.  --erikred
              \- well that isnt where the good stuff is. that's the spin.--psb
           \_ yes
           \_ Did this actually happen?  I can't find much sympathy for
              someone who was so ashamed by nudity.,4057,5396450%255E401,00.html _/
              \_ She was probably condemned by the society.  If she felt
                 ashamed about it, she wouldn't have posted nude.
                 \_ yeah im sure no one does anything they'd be ashamed of
                    earlier in life when they're desperate for cash or a break.
                    get off the motd you spoiled silver spooned elitist pig
                   \_ uhuh...and you are speaking of personal experience?
2002/10/31-11/1 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26371 Activity:very high
10/31   Can anyone recommend a reputable camera store to take a good camera
        to for cleaning/maintenance? peninsula or south bay is preferable but
        I'll take anything in the bay area, really...
        \- what kind of camera [brand/model/dollars]. yes, this matters.
           you can try horizon in hayward/union city/freemont area.
           good but may not be cheep. --psb
           \_ It's one of the more expensive Nikon digital cameras from a
              couple of years ago, not sure the exact model, maybe D1? (it's
              not mine, this is for a friend).
              \- if nikon, try horizon. --psb
        \_ second that.  The full name (at least when I was in Bay Area)
           is called "Horizon Electronics"  Kind of funny cuz camera
           repair is all they do as far as I remembered.  It's not cheap,
           consider that they have been consistantly doing a good job,
           i wouldn't consider them over-charging neither
           (my nikon is 19 yr old :)                    -kngharv
                \_ so is my girlfriend! --aaron
                        \_ i feel pity for u
                                \_ cheer up, i was kidding
2002/9/30 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26048 Activity:very high
9/30    special announcement in re: AFGA ULTRA ... it is discontinued.
        FUJI has a very saturated negative film but i dunno if they make
        one at 50 speed. BTW, do you actually *like* any agfa film? --psb
        \_ I've only tried Agfa Portrait 160 and Ultra 50.  Portrait 160 turns
           out very grainy, even though many people say it's fine grained.
           Maybe it has something to do with the lab I used (Kodak).  Ultra
           gives exaggerated color.  Usually I don't use it.  But when I go on
           a trip and I want some postcard-looking pictures, I'll use it.
        \_ also try this:
           \_ Kodak Portra 100T.  -- yuen
        \_ while we are at it... does any one knows any Tusten-balanced
           PRINT film (35mm format)
           \_ you can also get filters to help out.
              \_ Thanks!!!
              \_ But those are of motion picture film formats.  Can you use
                 them on a still-picture camera?
                 \_ you are right.  ObGoogle?  Key words:
                    "tungsten balanced film fuji"
                    (or kodak)
           \_ Kodak Portra 100T, Fuji NPL 160.  I've never tried them though.
              -- yuen
        \_ Which Fuji film is it then?  Thanks.  -- yuen
2002/9/27 [Consumer/Camera] UID:26020 Activity:moderate
9/26    Any photog here?  It looks like B&H doesn't carry Agfa Ultra 50
        anymore.  Is it discontinued?  If so, what's the most color-intense
        negative film available nowadays?  Thanks.
        \_ why when you have digital camera+photoshop?
        \_ you mean something like Kodak Portra VC (Vibrant Color)?
           \_ No, Ultra was much more intense than that.  It was as intense as
              slide film.  In fact it was so intense that it looked unnatrual.
              I'm going on a trip soon so I want to buy some again.
              \_ have you searched the photo review sites?  I've seen a few
                 reviews of film out there.
        \_ you may find this interesting:
           it mentions Agfa Ultra, so it must be a pretty accurate site,
2002/9/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Consumer/Camera, Computer/Networking] UID:26003 Activity:moderate
9/25    Okay, going to ask this again since it got nuked while I was rudely
        getting my beauty sleep--looking for tips on placement of 802.11b
        APs (5 AirPorts in a mid-sized building with ca. 70 clients.)  Also,
        curious whether it's best to use the same frequency on all APs
        or increment it, and whether there's a common method used by clients
        to pick an AP if they receive signals from several.  ok tnx.  -John
        \_ It's in the motd archives.
             \_ Where are the motd archives?
                \_ this question has been asked before... check the archives.
2002/9/23-24 [Consumer/Camera] UID:25979 Activity:very high
9/23    With all the digital equipments today, what are some of the advantages
        of using traditional equipments (e.g. darkroom, enlarger, developing
        equipments, etc)? I'm talking about hobbiest equipments, not pros
        -ok thx
        \_ the snotty art-fags who do photography as "art" will always
           make you look like a pro.
           prefer analog without bothering to learn about the alternatives.
           you could call that an advantage, if you want.
        \_ One would be hard pressed to ID the digital (printed on a $150
           epson photo printer versus my film prints.  For hobby use, it's
           in the same ballpark.  But consumer digicams still have the
           problem with lag, so I use film and a negative scanner too. -jor
           \_ Let's wait 2 years and see what your 'photos' look like.
        \_ One advantage I can think of is that using traditional equipments
           makes you look like a pro.
           \_ Only if you know how to use it in which you're a pro, eh?
        \_ In terms of the results you can get, there's not a lot of advantage.
           Film will provide somewhat higher resolution than mid-range
           digitals, but top-end digitals are getting really close, and they
           have numerous functional advantages.  If you don't already have
           a big investment in film, it's probably silly to work much with
           it.  -tom
           \_ In terms of affordable, there's still a big difference.  It's
              getting closer, but if you don't want to drop a huge load of
              cash you get better pictures from film and a good developer.
              The main advantage right now with digital is you avoid
              developing costs.
              \_ digital has enormous advantages, but just in terms of cost,
                 it's pretty much always gonna be cheaper than film over
                 time due to the processing issue.  -tom
                 \_ Depends.  For personal use I doubt it matters.  For my
                    own use I'd want the best quality and an extra few dimes
                    a shot is no big deal.  At bulk rates, digital is still
                    a new technology for the big players and not exactly
                    cheap.  --works for film/digital processor
                    \_ for my personal use it's mattered enormously.
                       I have taken 5000 shots with my digital camera;
                       a "few dimes" a shot is greater than the cost of
                       the camera.  If you're doing anything more than
                       taking occasional family snapshots, digital
                       will always be cheaper in the long run.
                       And your photos will probably be better, because
                       you get better, quicker feedback on what you're
                       shooting.  -tom
                       \_ 5000 = bulk.
                       \_ But cheap inkjet prints don't last as long as
                          traditional prints.  You don't want the pictures
                          you send to your grandma to fade in two years.
                          Archiveable (sp?) digital prints are more
                          pictures on paper are more valuable.
                          expensive.  Of course you can send a CD instead
                          which lasts practically forever and can be
                          refreshed by copying, but to many people personal
                          pictures on paper have more sentimental value.
                          \_ 90% of the shots I take, I don't print at
                             all.  The ones I want to print, I use
                             ofoto/shutterfly.  -tom
                             \_ shutterfly isn't long for this world.  careful
                                who you trust with your pics.  ofoto is kodak
                                owned so they should be around.
                                \_ snapfish is also kodak invested. snapfish
                                   can get pretty cheap if you prepay in bulk.
                                   \_ Actually we're owned by District Photo
                                      HQ'd in Maryland.  It is my understanding
                                      that no one has lower prices than we do,
                                      but I haven't personally checked. DP is
                                      doing most of the eastern seaboard for
                                      film and all of our digital and film.
                                      They keep up with print technology and
                                      spend considerable effort on keeping
                                      print quality high.  --snapfish employee
                          \_ Beh.  New inkjet printers that have
                             pigment-based inks are on the market now.
                             \_ gotta love those pigment-based inks!
                             Furthermore, you can send your digitals to
                    or and have them printed
                             on photo paper for cheap.
                             And you can remove red-eye and gamma-correct
                             your digitals before having them printed.  Oh,
                             and like tom said, you can throw away the pics
                             that aren't good before spending a thing on
                             printing. -emarkp
2002/8/19 [Consumer/Camera] UID:25606 Activity:high
8/19    Why is 35mm film format called "35mm" and "135"?  The film frame
        dimension is 24mm x 36mm.  Thanks.
        \_ It's the size of the magic elves who develop it.
2002/7/12-13 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Media] UID:25342 Activity:high
7/12    The Motd Movie Critic is on the air!

        Minority Report: Worth a cheap weekend matinee.  Some tongue in cheek
        humor to take an edge off the hard stuff.  Some hard stuff for those
        not into the sillier stuff.  A bit scooby dooish on the mystery part
        by the middle of the film but no one is expecting Hitchcock.  Some have
        complained about the advertising overkill in the movie, but the MMC
        felt the way the ads were woven into the movie during his escape scenes
        added something of value to the film plus a bit of humor.  The ads will
        also provide some self inflicted angst on those concerned about loss of
        privacy.  MMC gives Minority Report a B.
        \_ it was really good for 1.5 hours, but the ending is really
           sappy and almost ruins the whole movie.  in fact i'm still mad.
        \_ you really are an idiot.
           \_ *laugh*  I love the quality moderation here.  It's almost as
              good as slashdot.
              \_ Moderation?

        MIB2: Definitely *not* better than the first.  The plot was sketchy,
        the humor was mostly a bad rehash of the worst parts of the first film.
        Overall, MMC felt this movie needed a serious rewrite.  It looked like
                 \_ that's probably b/c it _got_ a serious rewrite after 9/11...
        a beta or maybe a late alpha version of the first film.  It even tried
        to poorly follow the same plot as the first.  The Smith character was
        especially bad due to the way it was written.  Smith starts out as a
        super agent but by the end is being portrayed as a bumbling idiot and
        a newbie know-nothing.  It was very odd and felt very wrong.  Overall,
        MMC was very disappointed with this film.  MIB2 gets a C-.
        \_ I hear laura flynn boyle gets naked
           \_ No one gets nekkid enough to matter.
2002/7/1-2 [Consumer/Camera] UID:25248 Activity:moderate
6/28    hola, does anyone have a recommendation of a $300-$350 digital camera?
        pixel-wise, will any camera in that $ range be adequate for 4x6 prints+
        WEEB images ... i.e. pick based on mostly features and interface?
        [this is not for me, but an associate]. ok tnx. --psb
        \_ What is WEEB?
        \_ Canon ELPH S200 for $350. I've been happy with mine. It's simple
           to use and the picture quality comes out great.
           to use and the picture quality comes out great. It has the most
           compact form factor of any 2MP camera out there. I would say,
           go to or for info.
        \_ for web and 5x7 prints or smaller, you can get away with 1.3mega
           pixel camera.  I bought one for that purpose for $150.
           It all depend upon what you want.  If you want a camera
           that takes good picture, the one above will do.
           Number of Pixels is actually not that important.  Quality
           of CCD and to small extent, the optics of the camera is
           a bit more important.
                -- photo geek who has 7 lenses from 20mm to 500mm
                   in 35mm format and spend more money on film and
                   developing film than the equipment itself.
        \_ Nikon has 7 cameras in that price range, from the Coolpix 2500
           to the older 800/950/990 and the newer 775/880/885. Use dealtime
           for a good price (and comparison) or simply just cameraworld.
           They have good service and great prices.
           \_ Of these, I'd recommend the 775 or 885. The 2500 looks like a
2002/6/16-17 [Consumer/Camera] UID:25111 Activity:high
6/15   Anyone care to recommend a digital camera?  I want a 6x zoom at least.
       Optical.  At least 1280x1024 resolution. --PeterM
        \_ honestly, from what you want, i can tell you that anything
           on the market will do.  It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to make good 6x zoom
           lenses anyway. so, the piece of glasses/plastic at front of your
           camera will be the bottleneck on the image quality.  For
           just average image quality (which is what you want, and there is
           nothing wrong with that), just get the cheapest 2 megapixel
           camera you can find on the market... unless, you are a gadget
           geek and want the woo and ahhs from your friends.
           A word of advice: 2x zoom is good for normal uses, and the shorter
           end is more important than the longer end.
                                -- kngharv
        \_ 1280x1024 < 1.5megapixel, so you can go low end...
        \_ I have a Cannon S330 and like it a lot. It only has a 3x optical
           zoom, but it may be sufficient if you only need 1280x1024 --twohey
           \_ My S330 is a 2 MegaPigal camera.
        \_ Definitely look at the Fuji 4900/6900 and the replacement for those,
           S2 or something.  If you want 6x or greater in a decent camera
           that doesn't cost $1000+, you're looking at Fuji or Olympus. -tom
        \_ Peter--I have a Digital Ixus 300.  It's not the newest or the
           best, but it's still the nicest camera I've ever had.  The colors
           are great, and although it's just 2.1MP and 3x optical zoom,
           I can only recommend it. had some
           great objective criteria when I was trying to decide.  Also,
           keep in mind that I will buy a regular 35mm film camera if I ever
           want really high quality images.  -John
           \_ If you can wait, wait until the true "digital SLR" comes out.
              Right now, the SLR is not quit there yet because they can't
              make the size of the sensor equal to those of 35mm.  That
              will be at least 3+ years from now.
                \_ why do you care about the size of the sensor?  It has
                   virtually nothing to do with image quality, unless you're
                   using a recording medium with low resolution (like film).
           \_ by the time you do that, digital will be higher-quality than
              35mm.  It already is in many cases.  -tom
              \_ depend upon what do you mean by higher-quality.  If you are
                 talking about images on computer screen, perhaps.  If you
                 are talking about large prints, then, digital still got a
                 long way to go compare with Leica or Contax.  Then again,
                 most people who is serious about photography tend to
                 use medium format anyway.
                \_ top-quality digital cameras already compete with 35mm for
                   print quality.  Even my camera, which is two generations
                   old, produces better 8x10 prints than cheap film cameras.
2002/6/10-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:25060 Activity:high
6/10    I have a client who is interested in photography.  For years he
        has used film, and is now interested in moving his archive of
        images into digital form.  He is an amateur bordering on
        professional, and he is interested in improving.  His archive
        contains several thousand images which he is willing to
        scan, manipulate via PhotoShop, categorize, and store.  The
        problem is indexing such a store-- he would like the primary index
        to be by location (where/when the photo was taken) but secondary
        indexes on (for example) subject, source, modificationHistory,
        etc.  Short of creating a relational DB schema and writing a gui
        for it myself, what are his options?  His computer skills are
        limited, but he's willing to pay for something that works well and
        won't destroy the image data.  He is also interested in
        specialized hardware for automatically scanning 35mm film
        negatives.  Any recommendations/links appreciated. -- mjm
        \_ try thumbsplus from cerious software (  It
           does this sort of organization and management fairly well.  -mice
        \_ stock agencies use a few db products for cataloging, some
        limited shareware stuff is out there.  There is not good stuff
        for batch scanning of negatives though - I find it often doesn't
        stay aligned within each frame.  It will take a while.
        \_ I'm also interested in this. Any suggestions? -!mjm
        \_ I'm also interested in this. Let me know what you end up doing.
           \- the Nikon coolscan8000 will do 5 at a time. you can get a
              batch load that will do a bunch at a time but it is noncheap
              batch loader that will do a bunch at a time but it is noncheap
              and yes there may be some minor alignment issues if you are
              really picky but you can scan oversize range and crop later,
              that transmit a lot of light, in my experience. --psb
              although this causes some edge problems on certain slides
              that transmit a lot of light, in my experience. a company i
              have some affilation with is working on some software
              to glue together various image management softwares in the
              while camera -> webpage pipeline. i may be looking for
              alpha/beta testers at some point. --psb
                \_ Is the 8000 much better than the much cheaper 4000?
                   \- look at the stats and see what you want/need.
2002/4/6 [Consumer/Camera] UID:24347 Activity:very high
4/5     Why is that the text overlay feature (i.e., date/timestamp) only
        exists in higher end digital cameras?  Is it that expensive of
        a feature to put in?  I want just a basic digital camera that
        does what my regular camera does.  Timestamp, auto-flash, etc...
        The digital camera that have text overlay usually have movie
        mode too which I don't care about.  Any suggestions?
        \_ if you get prints from somewhere like Shutterfly, they'll print
           the EXIF info on the back of the print--that might be sufficient
           for your needs.  -tom
           \_ It does actually, thanks!
           \_ Don't get too used to using Shutterfly.  They're not long for
              this world.  They're headed directly to the FC Hall of Fame.
              \_ What about others?  Ofoto (owned by Kodak), Snapfish,
                 etc?  Do they print the EXIF info?
2002/4/3-4 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Humor, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24297 Activity:moderate
4/2     is there any site around these days?
        \_ It's coming back soon; it got some sponsor
        \_ ifilm is kind of like it, not as good, but some of the same stuff
        \_ If you're looking for funny shorts, check out
           I find it hilarious... but maybe just because this guy is a
           friend of mine.              - rory
           \_ NYC jewish rappers (Beastie Boys) >> LA jewish rappers.
              \_ I think the key difference is that Beastie Boys are
                 for real and these guys are basically a joke
              \_ I think the real difference is between othodox and reform jews.
2002/2/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:23875 Activity:kinda low
2/15    What's a good digital camera for less than $450??
        \_ Canon PowerShot S110 or S300.
2002/1/4 [Consumer/Camera] UID:23447 Activity:high
        \_ Yes.  A jpg of northside from a viewpoint of a few hundred feet
           up but probably from a satellite.  And?
           \_ Bzzt.  Aerial photography of Northside shot in 1994.  Here's
              The Rest of the Story:
                \_ Uhm yeah ok a photo from a plane and this is "AWSOME!"
                   because...?  You can't even see any nekkid chicks on the
                   co-oop roofs.
                   \_ the co-op i lived in had no neked chix on the roof,
                      just poop mabye there were naked chix there before
                      the poop.
                      \_ how about naked chicks pooping?
           \_ Wow.  Is this why I can't fly a kite near March Air Force Base?
2001/12/19-20 [Consumer/Camera] UID:23307 Activity:insanely high
12/19   Looking for recommendations on digital cameras. Budget ~$5000.
        I like SLR's, and anything that would fit on the back of my Cannon
        AE-1 would be fine. Preferably it could take a microdrive. -chialea
        \_ spending $5000 on a camera is akind to giving weight-control
           pet food to your pets.  This country is just absurdly rich.
           want to just buy a digital film back?  I've never heard of those
           for 35mm SLRs.
           That's probably the lifetime salary of a peasant in East Timor.
           \_ You can't get a half-decent digital SLR for much cheaper...
           \_ You can't get a half-decent digital SLR for <$3000.
           \_ Shut up. <DEAD><DEAD>
           \_ Yes and the east timor peasant provides how much back to the
              world in skills and work effort?  This country is absurdly
              rich because we built a better country with a better government
              with real laws and a real economy.  This is something most of
              the rest of the world's corrupt governments refuse to do.  Once
              shitty third world pits separate church and state, and put in
              real laws and enforce them so things like contract law have
              value and meaning, they can have a real economy and you can stop
              whining about some peasants because that peasant will be out
              producing your hippie ass.
        \_ Rich kid!
           \_ Graduation present.
              \_ Point proven.
                 \_ What point?  Yes.  It's true.  Some people have more money
                    than others.  What's your point?
        \_ What do you mean by "fit on the back of my Canon AE-1"?  Do you
           want to just buy a digital film back instead of a whole camera?
           I've never heard of those for 35mm SLRs.  -- yuen
           \_ I hadn't either, but if that was the best option, and it did
              exist, didn't want to rule it out.
        \_ If you already have a decent SLR, look at SiliconFilm.
           Supports certain Nikon's and Canon's. Don't know how well it works,
           but it kicks ass in theory. Try Greenspun's
           <DEAD><DEAD> for camera reviews.
           \_ $649 for 1280x1024 resolution?  At that price, it definitely
              falls into the "cool in theory" category.  For the same money,
              I'd either purchase a digital point-and-shoot to go alonside
              the old AE-1, and/or a film scanner . . . -- kahogan
                \_ (This got deleted earlier)
                   The digital backs for 35mm film cameras are worthless.
                   The Canon D30 is probably the most well-respected digital
                   SLR.  But you should go to one of the dozens of review
                   sites, like  -tom
        \_ is an obvious choice if
           you want to use Canon lenses.  Note that focusing distance
           increases by 1.3x, so 38mm becomes the normal lens (because
           the chip is smaller than 35mm film).  Or, for just $19k more,
           get   -- misha.
           \_ You meant the perceived focal length increases.
              \_ I stand duly corrected.  -- misha.
           \_ "Power supplied through IEEE1394 cable - no separate power
              cable" Is this puppy tethered?
2001/11/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:23056 Activity:nil
11/15   Is there any camera rental place similar to Adolph Gasser but is in
        East Bay, preferably near Fremont?  Thanks.
2001/11/6-7 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Media] UID:22945 Activity:nil
5/11    Anybody want to post a link to the Phantom Edit?  Seems interesting.
        \_ gnutella
2001/11/5 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22933 Activity:low
10/4    Since Digital8 camcorders use 8mm tapes, can they also play analog
        8mm tapes? In another word are the players backward compatible?
        \_ Most, if not all are backward compatible with 8mm tapes, that
           was the selling point when they first came out.  Double-check
           with the unit manuf though.
2001/10/19 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22772 Activity:nil
10/19   Which is the best ultra-compact digital camera?
           \_ Thank you!
2001/9/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22472 Activity:high
9/15    where can I find a copy of that photo of the firefighters raising the
        flag, similar to the famous Iwo Jima photo?
        \_ --jon
           \_ thanks!
           \- does anyone know where there is a copy of the picture of the
           businessman in a fedora-type hat from the back looking up at
           the inferno? that is one of the best pix i have seen from
           the situation. --psb
2001/9/15-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22449 Activity:low
9/14    I don't really understand the idea behind making posters and
        pictures to carry around in the search for your loved ones.
        Not to minimize their loss, but are people merely playing to the
        camera?  I don't recall seeing this mourning in this fashion
        \_ There is both the "have you seen this child" pictures on milk
           box cartons, as well as "the disappeared ones" whose relatives
           would carry around pictures of their missing loved ones as
           a form of protest. This is not quite the same thing, but
           there is a tradition of similar things. -ausman
        \_ Hmmmm, maybe because they want to FIND their loved ones?
2001/8/30-31 [Consumer/Camera] UID:22295 Activity:nil
8/30    I'm interested in buying a camcorder.  Does anyone have any
        recommendations for a model/brand at a nice price-performance point?
        \_ I did some shopping for analog ones for my aunt two years ago.  The
           Sony CCD-TRV series seemed pretty good back then.  I ended up with
           a CCD-TRV46.  -- yuen
2001/7/5-6 [Consumer/Camera] UID:21719 Activity:high
7/5     An olympus stylus camera accidently went overboard during
        river rafting yesterday.  Water was too cold/deep for normal
        recovery with the gear we had, so the camera has been
        submerged a day already.  It's supposed to be "weatherproof";
        I was wondering if it's worth going back with scuba gear
        to recover the film (don't care about the camera, but the film
        has pictures from a previous trip) - does anyone know what the
        effect of water on exposed film is? Thanks... - mds
              \_ you dumbass...why would you take that camera on a rafting
                 trip in the first place?  Just because it's weatherproof
                 doesn't mean it's submergable.  Besides that, the
                 activity of rafting should tell you you need to bring
                 a water camera and to hold on tight....
        \- i would only bother in the "here's a crazy thing to try" scenario
        rather than the "i want by camera and film back" motivation. --psb
        rather than the "i want by camera and film back" motivation. btw,
        i have fallen into a river with a camera before and the pix were
        sort of washed out but developable. --psb
2001/4/30-5/1 [Consumer/Camera] UID:21151 Activity:high
4/30    Can somebody id this short film?  It's an animated short film shown on
        PBS a few years ago.  The story is about an old man in France who
        transformed an entire mountain by planting cherry blossoms.  I think
        it was cherry blossoms, might be another tree that has pink flowers.
        After he dies the mountain is named after him.  Thanks.
        \_ might help you out.
        \_ That sounds like "The man who planted trees"
           ("L' Homme qui plantait des arbres"), though
           I saw it a long time ago at the Honolulu
           Academy of the Arts and don't remember if
           there were cherry blossoms involved.  -ok
           the trees involved had pink flowers.  -ok
           \_ THANK YOU!  :-)
2001/4/29-5/1 [Consumer/Camera] UID:21139 Activity:high
4/29    Any APS film scanners in/around berkeley that I can borrow/pay-to-use?
        -- sagarwal
        \_ Yes.
            \_ Oh, thats helpful. Where?
            \_ If you'd sign you post maybe I could be even more helpful.
                \_ ok.
        \_ No.
2001/4/24-25 [Consumer/Camera, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:21080 Activity:high
4/389   <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ yes, thank you.  also, a chinese jet collided with an american
           reconnaissance craft, film at 11.
                \_ no shit!  really?  when did that happen?
2001/4/20 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Dating] UID:21026 Activity:moderate
4/19    Anyone's seen Memento?  How was it?
        \_ I don't remember.
        \_ awesome.  It was a cross between Usual Suspects, Pulp Fiction,
           Betrayal, and film noir.  Pay attention, don't go get popcorn.
           \_ It was very creative story. But I don't think it was an awesome
              \_ _Soldier of the Mist_, _Soldier of Arete_, Gene Wolfe
                        \_ goetz?
              \_ Well, it's good enough where I'd consider it criminal if this
                 worthy film does not get a nationwide release.  The film
                 had more plot twists than a double helix.
              \_ If it's not that good why do 5 staff give it
                 an average rating of 9?
                 \_ it's barely released and has already cracked the top #50
              \_ damn it people.. don't give away the movie.  This is one of
                 those chicks where the less you know the better experience
                 you'll have.
        \_ I'm trying to convince my friend and his wife to see this tomorrow
           night, but my friend says he's heard it's violent, and he wouldn't
           want to mislead his spouse.  Is it that violent?
              overall cuz she doesn't like movies with violence.
                \_ A dude gets his head blown off in the first two mins.
           \_ My gf have it props for creativity but gave it thumbs down
              overall cuz she doesn't like movies with that much violence.
        \_ What's with their commercials? Are they European or something?
2001/3/22 [Consumer/Camera, Reference/Military] UID:20881 Activity:nil
2001/2/15-18 [Consumer/Camera, Health/Men] UID:20608 Activity:very high
2/15    Anyone have any suggestions for a good morphing program?  I want to
        morph some faces from a digital camera into Marilyn Monroe.
        \_ Stills or video?
           \_ stills.  I'd want it in steps, like @5%, or 1%. 10% is acceptable,
              too, but better resolution is preferred.
              \_ OS?  xmorph isn't great, and it's kinda a pain to use, but the
                 results look passable.
                 \_ It would be for Win9x.  Thanks.
                    \_ Free?  Probably not.. probably want something like
             \_ Microsoft's DirectX SDK comes with a demo program that
                does this.
        \_ matlab. -ali
           \_ Matlab is for wimps.  Real men program their vector and matrix
              libraries in C or Fortran.
              \_ Real men are dumb enough not to use LAPACK?
        \_ you can try these, although I have no experience with any of them:
2001/1/15-16 [Consumer/Camera, Computer/SW/Apps] UID:20331 Activity:nil 58%like:20323
01/15   Can someone recommend a reference/introduction to photo negative
        retouching? (_not_ digital, ie !photoshop)
2000/12/21-25 [Consumer/Camera] UID:20151 Activity:moderate
12/20   What's the resolution of a consumer camcorder?  When I hook up my
        camcorder to my 20" TV the image doesn't look as sharp as those from
        broadcasting stations.
        \_ Your consumer camcorder uses VHS, they broadcast SuperVHS.
           There is a noticeable difference.
           \_ Broadcasters only use SVHS?  I thought it was something better..
               \_ believe it or not, many of them actually use Betamax.
                  \_ I believe that broadcasters use Betacam, which is a more
                     professional-grade version of Betamax.
        \_ This depends alot on the camcorder.  If it's normal 8, yes it's
           going to be a lot lower resolution.  If it's Hi-8/S-VHS/it will
           be "broadcast quality" but a lot depends on the quality of the
           camera itself. I've known normal 8 cameras to "look" better on
           first gen than hi-8/s-vhs because of better color.  Some brands
           really suck.  Some of the new digital cameras beat Betacam,
           but ya gotta spend $3K -- but that sure beats $15K!
           but ya gotta spend $3K -- but that sure beats $15K!  Also,
           you might be inadvertently recording in "EP" or "SLP" mode
           which will definitely affect quality.  Finally, be sure to
           have a hi-8 tape or S-VHS tape if that's what your camera uses,
           if you use normal 8 or VHS you are going to see the difference.
                \_ That's great people, but if you read the question,
                   you'd realize the question is asking for resolution.
2000/10/28-31 [Consumer/Camera, Academia/Berkeley] UID:19591 Activity:low
10/28   What is a good place in Berkeley to get film developed & get a PhotoCD?
        The ASUC place has lost a couple of my rolls before, so they suck.
        \_ Custom Process near the 4th street yuppie area.
           Otherwise, I think you're stuck with Kodak, who has lost
           negatives for me.  -sony
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD> off your photos and you get the back
           with photoCD and they get scanned online as well.
        \_ Sarber's on Solano -- or
        \_ make sure u want photoCD, not pictureCD... photoCD is hella
           more expensive, and if you don't need the resolution and
           dynamic range, it may not worth the price.
2000/9/11-12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:19223 Activity:high
9/10    Has anyone ever bought a large quality of semi-exotic film from
        an online place? any online places with good prices on film?
        i am looking for something like 20-40 rolls of velvia. ok tnx --psb
        \_ S&M ( has velvia 36 for $4.99 a
        \_ S&M ( has vulva 36 for $4.99 a
           roll-in-the-hay, $99.80 for a pro-packing of 20".  I haven't
           found it for cheaper.
           \_ But those are grey market prices.  The USA ones cost $5.39 and
              $107.80.  Are the grey Velvia rolls from B&H in good condition?
              -- yuen
                \-what does "grey mkt" mean in the film world? --psb
                  \_ B&H's definition is that the good is imported and
                     warrantied by the store, not by an authorized dealer.
                     warrantied by the store, not by an authorized dealer.  So
                     the manufacturer does not guarantee the condition of the
                     good because it has no control over what happened to
                     the good during transportation (heat/shock/...).
                        \_ just like
2000/8/14-15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18986 Activity:moderate
8/14    I want to get an APS Film Scanner. BestBuy in Pinole & Frys in Fremont
        don't have them. Anyone have any suggestions? Don't want to order
        off the web.
        \_ A store as big as Fry's don't have them?  Anyway, try MicroCenter
        \_ Fry's carries the Canoscan 2710, which is 35mm and APS, and is
           decently reviewed in the cheap (500$) category).
        \_ A store as big as Fry's doesn't have them?  Anyway, try MicroCenter
           in Santa Clara.
2000/8/10-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18954 Activity:high
8/10    How does APS film compare with regular film? (quality and things
        like that)
        \_ Same emulsion.  Smaller negative for same size print.  You do math.
        \_ APS is good for ordinary things like vacations photos, but not
           for professional stuff. I like my APS camera, but I take ~ 4
           photos a year.
        \_ More expensive to buy & develop film, lots of kewl features
           such as wide-angle shots, I think the negative strips don't
           work with most (any?) photo negative scanners if that's what
           you want to do.  -John
           \_ APS wide-angle shots are not real panorama shots.  All the
              camera does is to cover up the top and bottom portions of the
              negative.  You can achieve the same effect by taking a picture
              with the APS "normal" format or a 35mm format, and then grab
              a pair of scissors and cut away the top and bottom portions of
              the print.  About scanners, I have a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual
              which lets me buy an APS adapter for ~$115 if I want.  I think
              some scannes have built-in APS capabilities.  (BTW the driver
              that comes with the Scan Dual sucks big time.  I switched to a
              3rd party driver and I got *much* better image quality.)  -- yuen
                \- APS was a sleazy money grab by Kodak. If you arent a serious
                photographer and dont have a large investment in hardware, get
                a digital camera. --psb
2000/8/7-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18915 Activity:nil
8/7     Where is a cheap place to get APS film developed and get a
        PhotoCD too? Does costco do photocds? [motd formatting God was here]
        \_ Just a sidenote: make sure you do get PhotoCD and not PictureCD,
           which some places only offer. My $250 Epson scanner produces
           better quality images than PictureCD (I've done side-by-side
        \_ PhotoCD is nearly gone.  Picture CD will get you 1500x800 rez
           images for APS.  Quality is decent, you'd mostly want it as a
           time saver over scanning yourself.
        \_ ugh, biology can't answer this one
        \_ biology -- keeping memories of the past on cd as the mind will
           deteriorate faster over time.  Using a tool to aid the body.
2000/7/10 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Media] UID:18626 Activity:insanely high
        aye.  Deckard == Replicant.
                \_ Bruce Willis == ALready dead (6th sense) note the //ism
        \_ Everyone knows this already.
           \_ AH!  But did you know that Deckard was a failed homosexual?
        \_ If you didn't already figure this out after watching the Director's
           Cut, you're a moron.  -mogul
        \_  note: it didn't work for me until i loaded the directory
            and then clicked on the bladerunner link.  stoopid web server --oj
        \_ my officemate called my reaction to this article "very pomo"
           which apparently means "post mosternist". i know i should hit him,
           for using the term, but is this considered and insult or a
           compliment? -ali
           \_ so what was your reaction?
          \_ yes, it is.  i think it depends if he's a "pomo" himself. --oj
           \_ what is a "mosternist"?
           \_ Only losers have ever used the term "pomo" and to be using
              it in the 21st century means BIG-loser. Therefore, you
              \_ not as "BIG-loser" as not knowing what a "century" is
              shouldnt feel insulted or complimented by him. If you do, then
              you're the loser. Hit yourself.
        \_ soda motd cum slashdot gateway! thanks!
2000/6/14-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18468 Activity:nil
6/14    Has anyone developed film onto KodakCD? How is the quality?
        \_ When you say "KodakCD", do you mean PhotoCD (their "pro" product),
           or PictureCD (their cheaper "home" product)?  With PhotoCD, you get
           back your images scanned at 5 different resolutions, the highest of
           which is 2000x3000. With PictureCD, you get a single 1024x1536 scan
           of each image. I've never used PhotoCD, but I've gotten a PictureCD
           with each roll of film I've developed while in Europe so that I
           have an easy way of sharing vacation pics on the Web. It works well
           for that -- decent resolution, decent contrast/color balance, no
           problems with added dust and scratches. I usually only have to do a
           crop and some minimal brightness/contrast twiddling for each image
           I want to share. Search for both product names on to read
           about the respective experiences of others.  -- kahogan
2000/5/12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18246 Activity:high
5/11    This question has been asked several times before... what's a good
        SLR to buy for $500? Any pointers to websites?
        \-assuming you dont have a large investment in lenses and are
        talking 35mm format I think an N90 is pretty good investment if
        you think you might end up becoming a reasonably serious photographer.
        The price of those should have gone down after the F100 was introduced.
        If you get something like that, you can continue to use the lenses on
        more advanced nikon ... and the N90 is a plenty advanced camera. Main
        draw backs are 1. nikon supplementary gear is expensive 2. highly
        electronic cameras dont do so well in the cold. --psb
        \_ The body was $729 on CameraWorld. I was looking at the Canon
           A2 or Elan II kit and Nikon N70 kit and possible alternatives. Any
           pros/cons? Also, any comments on
                \-the N90 isthe cheapest of the serious Nikons. Of course
                there is a ratcheting aspect to that. If I was buying a body
                now I would have paid the exra $500 to get the F100. However
                when I was buying my camera, it was a choice between $1K N90
                and $2.5K F5 ... so it wasnt a real choice. I would take a
                used N90 over a new N70. If you are willing to write an
                intelligent post [here are my priorities and constraints and
                the options i am considering], you will get a good answer on
                the photo hardware newsgroup. --psb
2000/4/17-18 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18033 Activity:low
4/17    Are there a price comparison sites for camera and accessories more
        complicated than point and shoot?
        \_ Yup.
2000/4/13-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18001 Activity:nil
4/12    Is it a good idea to purchase a factory refurbished camera?
        I am thinking of a Nikon Pronea 6i.  It seems only refurbished
                                 \_ pr0n?
        model still exists with reasonable price.  ($200).
        \_ wow. they really make a camera just for shooting porn.
2000/4/13-16 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18000 Activity:high
4/12    What's people's comments and opinions about APS camera?  Is this
        format going to stay and how does it compare with 35mm?  I am
        considering buying an APS SLR camera vs. an SLR with auto. focus.
        (like a N70 vs. a Pronea 6i)  Any informative URL is also
        \_ philg has an opinionated review of APS here:
        \_ I don't have either of the ones you mentioned, but I do have
           a Fuji APS camera with auto focus and zoom. I got it at Target
           for less than $100. My father (a photography enthuisast, owns
           several Roli-flex cameras) tells me that it is not as good as
           35mm, but I can't tell the difference. Also its a lot simpler
           to use. I just pop in the cartridge and turn it on. And if
           you get one of the newer models, you can switch between
           partially exposed rolls of film.
           \_ If loading 35mm film is still 'hard' after the first few
              rolls, you're probably someone who still uses Velcro shoes,
              'cause you never could get the hang of that tying-thing . . .
                \_ No I wear sandals. No laces, no velcros, no socks.
                   I prefer to keep things simple and straight-forward.
                   Loading was a big reason I disliked cameras, but with
                   the APS, I actually have finished a roll of film. It
                   took two years, but I still finished all 24 shots.
        \_ I use APS for my UW photography.  For recreational use, it is
           probably fine, though many find the Panoramic setting to result
           in grainy images.  It definitely has limitations, and it's
           slightly more expensive to shoot/develope, is much harder to
           get decent 1hr service for, and outside of the USA is virtually
           unseen (a big problem for me).  -jor,
           \_ "outside of the USA" is a big place: if you're talking about
              the third world, sure, but here in Germany the section for
              APS cameras and film is almost as large as the 35mm section
              in most stores.  In other places in Europe where I've had the
              occasion to notice (Belgium, Spain, the UK), the situation
              seemed similar.   -- kahogan
                \_ Even when I was in China, I was able to buy APS film.  I
                        didn't try to get it developed there, though.
              \_ My mom took my APS camera to India and she had no
                 problems getting it developed. They took 3 days though,
                 and she was in Banglore. Its pretty much the same in
                 most large cities (Madras, Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi) in
                 India. ----ranga
           \_ You are of course correct.  There is no APS presence in the
              Caribbean where I go to dive.  No results till I return. -jor
        \_ isn't the problem with APS is it is both a pain in the butt and
           expensive to get the film developed?
           \_ APS is much simpler to use than 35mm. The development takes
              about a day and the cost is 1 to 2 dollars more. IMHO, the
              extra few bucks and time is worth it for the simplicity.
              AFAIK, APS isn't targeted at the professional market, its
              targeted at the oridinary fool market, where simplicity
              is a big selling point.
                \_ uh, simplicity is a function of the camera, not the film
                   type.  how is a point-and-shoot APS camera simpler than
                   a point-and-shoot 35mm camera?  APS will die for the same
                   reason the Disc did; the quality sucks and it's not really
                   any easier to use.  -tom
                        \_ Film loading. Loading a 35mm film camera is
                           much harder than an APS camera. You need to
                           position the film just right, etc. Also, say
                           you have two different speed film, one for
                           outdoors and one for indoors. Try switching
                           between them while both are partially exposed.
                           Not possible in most 35mm cameras. In APS
                           no problem.
                           no problem. Also APS means no raw negatives
                           to deal with. You just save the film canister
                           and when you want to develop a partiuclar
                           you just look at the handy index print and
                           give the developer the number of the picture.
                           I disagree about the quality. It is almost as
                           good as 35mm that most people can't tell the
                           difference. I would pick simplicity over
                           marginally better quality most of the time.
                           \_ wow, you really are incompetent aren't you?
                        \_ so you have a Disc?  -tom
                           (the quality of APS is more than marginally worse).
        \_ If you buy an APS camera, get one of those cute super-petite
           models, 'cause chicks dig 'em.
                \_ I don't know if you are joking, but I have had random
                   chicks approach me when I was taking pictures with
                   my ELPH camera.
        \_ It's much easier to find 35mm SLR with inerchangable lens than
           APS SLR, but since you're getting Nikon, this is not a problem for
           adapter.  Scans from APS film are natually more grainly than those
           you.  (BTW, I have N70 and FM2.)  I think APS film scanner costs
           more than 35mm ones too.  Mine (Minolta Dimage Scan Dual) costed
           ~$350 and scans 35mm, but it won't scan APS unless I buy a ~$100
           adapter.  Scans from APS film are natually more grainy than those
           from the same type of 35mm film simply because the film area is
           smaller.   -- yuen
                \- IMHO: if youa re serious about photography, get the SLR.
                If you are not serious, get a digital in your price range.
                Unless you are really into those panoramic shots I dont see
                any reason to get an APS these days. --psb
2000/1/10-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:17203 Activity:very high
1/10    Recommendations for a good place to get a camera within the 2-digit
        price range? (don't bother with "cheapskate" comments)
        \_ How about a spelling comment?
        \_ Target. I bought a Fuji APS camera there for about $80
           (two digits) and it works great. It even has zoom.
        \_ The minolta Stylus is good, near 100, weatherproof.  APS can
           result in smaller camera size, but film costs are higher and
           the quality is slightly inferior. -jor
           \_ But chicks dig 'em!  I've never had more "oooh, that's so
              *CUTE*!" comments on a camera than when I borrowed an (APS)
              Canon ELPH for a few days.  I'm sure the ELPH costs more
              than double-digit, though.
                \- er, in the two digit range, what is the most $ you can save,
                about $10? the real question is what model to get not where to
                get it. just pick some once you pick the model --psb
                \_ They say the same about your penis when they see it the
                   first time?
        \_ or  If you don't like
           mail-ordering, Costco has good prices too if you have membershipp
           and don't mind chhoosing from only a few models.
1999/12/28-30 [Consumer/Camera] UID:17110 Activity:high
12/28   Should I get a camcorder for 8mm or VHS-C? VHS-C is attractive
        because I can just pop my tape into a VHS player.
        \_ Get 8mm -- higher quality, and if you want VCR hookup, there's
           always good ole A/V coax cable
           \_ Get one that also supports Hi8.
        \_ Use linux. Ride bike.
        \_ U53 W1ND0///5!!! W1ND0///5 R3WLZ!!! L1NUX 5UX!!
        \_ DV Camera!
1999/11/10-12 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16862 Activity:high
        \_ proof that Amazon (book monopoly) is bad for consumers
                \_ Why? Because you can buy from them OR B&N?
                \_ Amazon does not have a book monopoly.  And although M$ is
                   a bad monopoly, not all monopolies are bad.
                        \-what is an example of a non-bad monopoly?
                          \_ I think utilities are the canonical example.
                             W/ competition the public loses returns to
                             scale.  But it does need more regulatin'
                                \-well PU are an exercise in regulation
                             \_ What?  You're selling your SO's sexual
                                \_ you thought she was privately held, but
                                   in reality, publicly traded
                                   \_ I was there at the IPO but sold out
                                      soon after.  She released more shares
                                      to the public which dramatically
                                      diluted her value.
                                      \_ did you get in as friends & family
                                         at a substantially lower price?
                                         \_ I had the Preferred Customer price.
                                and thats where the problems come from.
                                so this is a bad example of a non-bad monopoly.
                                if you are interested in an interesting study
                                on this look at Train: Optimal Regulation
                                [Train = UCB Econ].
                                There may be some interesting cases where a
                                monopoly is a property right that ought to be
                                granted to someone and is an efficent solution
                                to a problem. This can either be an auction
                                distributed right to fish/airwaves etc or
                                something like an alternative to a side-payment
                                system ... say instead of moving african
                                natives from some place you want to become a
                                wildlife preserve or paying them off, give them
                                a monopoly on say camera film sales. --psb
                          \_ a monopoly over your SO's sexual activity?
                                \-i dont think pimps having exclusive rights
                                is particularly good for the hos. i suspect it
                                isnt good for the public either. --psb
                             \_ silly, twisted sodans, I speak of a gf's/bf's
                                monogamy.  SO != prostitute.  (I hope.)
        \_why is that URL proof that amazon is a book monopoly?
1999/10/29-11/2 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16794 Activity:low
10/29   If you have a moment and a 24bit display, please look at and help me pick 2 entries to mail off tonight
        for an UW photo contest.  thanks - jor
        \_ What exactly is the theme of the contest though?  Simply
           "underwater photography"?  --- yuen
        \_ if anything, prove that a cheap UW camera can deliver.
           grand prize is a week of diving in the caymans for 2.
           has last year's finalists.
           \_ In that case, jor's rig-metridiums.jpg would be my first
              choice.  For the second choice, I can't decide between
              anemonie.jpg and R-FISH.jpg.  --- yuen
        \_ I'll agree with the current picks; esp. the anemone.
1999/10/5-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16668 Activity:low
10/5    Does anyone have experience shopping for cameras at
        \_ Do yourself a favor and go to
           They are rude, but cheap, efficient and honest.
           \_ Imagine a world where honesty, value an efficiency in a
              retail sales industry was parallelled by politeness and
              respect for the customer... oh, wait... I must be asking for
              too much. God forbid should anyone be polite. -(fucker)
           \_ I saw the price on is considerably
                lower but if you have or have heard of bad experience with
                it please post it.  Thanks.
                \_ Try Adorama or Smile Photo.  B&H is known to have
                   good stuff, but higher prices.  Never heard of this
                   photographicphoto place, but their prices don't seem that
                   low to me.
           \_ I've always had good experience with mail-ordering at B&H
              and CWO (  I think they are not rude,
              but they are not the cheapest either.  If you're buying
              popular items, CWO usually has lower prices than B&H.
              Otherwise it's the other way around.  Haven't tried any
              mail-order stores other than these two because I heard
              most others like to cheat.  -- yuen
           \_ I am the one who said B&H are rude but honest...
              I STRONGLY recommend you look at this informal survey:
              good luck                 -serious snapshooter
              \_ Another survey can be found at
                 This one lists the number of satisfied/dissatisfied customers
                 at each mail-order store.  -- yuen
1999/9/15 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16525 Activity:nil
9/15    Hey has anyone heard of a BW film dev process called NP22?
        I have some film i bought in another country that says ISO 125/22o
        and am trying to find out if it cane be developed here. --psb
        \_ "another country" == india?
        \_ Try calling Looking Glass on Telegraph.  They probably know where
           you can send the film to.  --- yuen
1999/9/10-13 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16500 Activity:very high
9/10    Is 800 speeds film really "best" for several different conditions
        while the lower speed ones are each good only for some?  Where can
        I learn more about this?
        \_ Take a class at any local adult school/community center.  A basic
           photography class can be invaluable.
        \_ As the above says, it's just windows.  win98 won't be that much
           better.  Either turn off suspend in which case your batteries will
           drain down or just do lots of reboots the way Bill intended it to be.
        \_ *** READ ***
              \_ yes there is. read today's Chronicle. BAAS (Bay Area
                 Adult Sites) is an organization to help local porn pushers.
        \_ I think 200 is probably the best overall film speed. 800 is too
           grainy and is not very good for outdoor pictures. If it's sunny
           and you're outside, go 100. If you're indoors, use a flash and
           400 or 800 (if you're shooting for something like a football
           game at night 800 or higher is preferred). So if you're going to be
           shooting indoors and outdoors, day and night, 200 is a pretty good
           medium if you don't want to carry around multiple cameras or
           multiple rolls of film.
           \_ Yeah.  I think 800 is best only in that it gives acceptable, not
              good, results over vastly different situations.  If you have to
              shoot indoor without flash as well as outdoor, use 800.
              Otherwise, 200 is better if you can use a flash while shooting
              indoor.  If you have a fast lens or if you don't mind
              backgrounds being too dark when shooting indoor with flash,
              you can even use 100 film to get finer grains.  --- yuen
        \_ 1600 b&w can produce some lovely prints
           This site (not affiliated with me) also has great camera reviews...
        \_ As the above says, it's just windows.  win98 won't be that much
           better.  Either turn off suspend in which case your batteries will
           drain down or just do lots of reboots the way Bill intended it to be.
           \_ Is there a FAQ telling how to get girls to be naked on film so I
              have a porno site and be rich?
           \_ Hmmm, I'm glad to be a FDNTHV then. I love my Dreamcast. If
              being a victim means having loads of fun from the moment I
              and without the hassles.  Just bc you were one of the
              get my product, then I say Bring On The Hype!  I am a
              consumerist bastard!  I love obeying the media.  I want
              to be stereotyped and marketed to!
        \_ suspend just isn't all that in Win95 ... 98 is better tho
1999/9/7-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16477 Activity:nil
9/7     Any recommendation for a price tracker for analog camera?
        \_ is the biggest photo mail order store.
  is also a popular one.  Their prices are
           neither the lowest nor the highest, but they are are good
           indicators of current retail prices of various items.  -- yuen
1999/9/4-6 [Consumer/Camera] UID:16464 Activity:nil
9/4     I am shopping for a decent automatic camera that will do justice
        to scenes ranging from alpine landscape, Venetian neighborhood,
        to Roman ruins.  Any suggestions?
                \_ - best prices/service w/no tax from NY
                        \_ I really hope that isn't a bh porn site.
                   I recommend the Olympus Stylus epix, for under $100
                   Over $100, get a canon EOS sytem Rebel2000, or a
                   Nikon N6000
                   \_   i got the stylus epic on the recommendation of a
                        friend and have been happy with it, though i wish
                        i'd gotten the one with the zoom.  best selling
                        points are that it's TINY and it has a large
                        aperture for its size (1:2.8).  it's good for
                        traveling.  if you're not concerned about size
                        though, you can find better.
        \_ Thanks.  Any URL for comparison and analysis?  I used to use
           SLR to shoot but that was 10+ years ago and need to relearn.
           Hopefully the automatic ones will be versatile enough.
1999/7/21-22 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:16177 Activity:very high
7/20    Is motion-sickness / motion-tolerance genetically bound? And is there
        any way to compensate for it? I just saw the Blair Witch Project,
        which made me nauseous. My friend actually puked. All the quick
        camera motions got to us. We're weak sauce.
        \_ I get sick playing most 3D type games (almost all Nintendo 64
           games and some others too). I even had difficulty with
           Zelda 64. -cdaveb
           \_ there is an actual medical term called DIMS - doom-induced
              motion sickness.  --caliban
        \_ There is a genetic predisposition to motion sickness.  But is it
           really motion sickness if you are not really moving?
        \_ there's a difference between motion sickness and IMAX-type
        \_ There are actually well documented cases of the relation of
           visual motion and physical motion causing severe nausea.
           I myself was once on a flight simulator in New York where
           the gyroscopic action controlling the simulator was just
           slightly out of phase with the video play back.
           You've never seen so many people get sick so fast
           in your entire life.  I would say the same thing is possible
           even when you are not moving if your brain is duped by the film.
           Try dramamine but my guess is that you should see movies
           with stabilized cameras or else bring a barf bag and give your
           more hearty friends a good laugh -asa
        \_ It helps to sit in the back. Way back. Last row.
                \_ Not enough.  For the rest of you who have this problem,
                   wait until it comes out on video and watch
                   it on a small TV from across a room.
                \-anyone ever use the SGI solaris system browser demo ...
                at some point i didnt know what i was doing withit as i was
                flying through the solar system on a really fast machine and
                i felt kinda ill as i was doing these dives into the ecliptic
                plane. that was actually pretty fun. --psb
        \_ Ginger root powder (you can get it at any pharmacy) helps.
           Chinese medicine rules.
           \_ Ginger in general calms the stomach.  Have some ginger snaps.
           \_ Dramamine or Bonine are stronger; antihistamines with strong
              antiemetic side effect. Some people say they keep you from
              getting dizzy too. But unlike ginger, they taste bad (esp.
              Dramamine, yuck), make you tired, may cause stomachache.
        \_ All of these remedies have varying levels of effectiveness for
           any one person.  You have to sample and see.  You do get
           more tolerant with experience.  -jor (boat diver)
           \_ Take a hit. Then take another hit if you dont feel anything
        \_ This kind of motion sickness is caused because your brain is
           getting conflicting reports about movement: your eyes say it's
           going on, but the rest of your senses contradict that.  I'm
           not sure dramimine would help.
1999/1/6-7 [Consumer/Camera, Finance/Shopping] UID:15176 Activity:high
1/3     I'm planning to co-locate a server (with 13 gig of HD). What is a
        good and really cheap affordable backup tape drive I can buy, with good
        Linux drivers?
            \_ Basically, DLT > 8mm (Exabyte || AIT) or 4mm (DAT)
                In my opinion, you're better off with even a DLT2000
                than an Exabyte (reliability sux) or a DAT drive (reliability
                also wanx) because in my 4 years x.p. in the backup field,
                never once have I seen a DLT drive fail.  If it's cleaned
                properly, write errors are few.  The newer AIT drives are
                better than Exabyte's (incidentally, Exabyte declined SONY
                the right to OEM there brand, hence AIT was formed) in
                terms of quality and performance, however, the price is not
                cheap, nor has the basic architecture of 8mm changed---tape
                path from hell.  The DLT has a much more natural (fewer
                winding heads, less tape tention) tape path than 8mm or even
                DAT.  The newer DLT7000 drives easily get 5MB/sec native
                compression (non-compression).  AIT and the newest DDS3 hum
                around 3MB/sec.  Tape drive makers claim you can get 2:1
                hardware compression if you turn it on (i.e. double your
                performance to 10MB/sec), but this depends on how compress-
                able your data is (bitmaps, text, database) and it increases
                wear-and-tear on the drive heads (they must stop-and-wait-
                for-data-compression-write-stop-repeat).  If I had a choice
                between 8mm and 4mm, I'd actually go with the 4mm - 8mm is
                not any more realiable to be worth the extra $pacebux.  Let
                me know if you need software.

                And next time, sign your name so I can send email to you.
                \_ I've never seen an Exabyte fail except for single tape that
                   had been severely abused.  How often have you seen Exabyte

                        \_ When DLT 2000s & 4000s were coming out, all the
                        vendors of Exabytes were sick of the piles of RMAs.
                        Once they began shipping DLTs instead of Exabytes,
                        all-the-sudden, those RMAs disappeared.  The problem
                        with Exabyte drives is the Tape Path From Hell.  It
                        wears down the tape, the drive heads, and since there
                        are more moving parts, there is a much greater chance
                        of tapes being eaten up, read/write heads breaking,
                        etc.  I have never seen a DLT drive eat a tape like
                        an Exabyte.  AIT seems to have solved some of these
                        issues by reducing the number of spindles and creating
                        a better tape path and integrating memory chips into
                        the tapes themselves (helps load and seek times).
                        While DLT7000s are still quite pricy, I think the
                        best price/performance deal on the market is the
                        DLT2000XT.  If you want 8mm, avoid the 85xx and 87xx
                        series.  The 8900 (Mammoth) drive is fair, but
                        expensive.  I worked for a year and a half at a backup
                        hardware/software re-seller, then for another two and
                        half years at a backup software company.  With drives I
                        personally handled, I had no failures with DLT, 1/1
                        Mammoth had problems loading tapes, 1/1 8700 broke twice
                        and uncountable 8500/8505 drive failures.  As for DAT
                        only a few problems with those drives.
        \_ Any brand-name standard SCSI DAT drive (Seagate, HP, ...).  You
           might want to ask whether there have been problems with a
           particular model you're considering.
          \_ DAT absolutely sucks.  Get the cheap DLT drive or AIT.  -tom
             \_ Ive read alot of stuff about how DATs are bad, but I've used
                the Eliant 820 8mm from Exabyte and haven't had any probs w/
                it thus far, in fact it backs up --sly
                \_ DAT is 4mm, not 8mm.  The old 8mm Exabyte stuff sucks
                   pretty bad too but the newer may be better.  I'm skeptical
                   of AIT.  DLT is much more reliable, but $$$ and the tapes
                   and drives are big.  If you just want something dirt cheap
                   the 1/4" drives work ok for occasional backups, but the
                   tapes are expensive.  DAT is ok if the environment is
                   good and you keep everything clean.  -phr
                        \_ we have DAT tapes in machine rooms that we clean
                           twice monthly and use new tapes every 3 months and
                           still have horrible reliability.  -tom
                \_ Yeah, but have you ever successfully done a restore? -ausman
             \_ What about 8mm tapes like Exabyte?
                \_ What do you think AIT is? --dim
                   \_ there are lotsa differences btwn normal 8mm and
                      AIT dipshit.. a cheap AIT drive is prob the best
                      solution.. dlt 4000 is prob good too but prob
                      gon be a bit more expensive but every bit as good
                      \_ Is AIT an 8mm format or isn't it? --dim
                \_ AIT uses 8mm tapes but it's not compatible with old-style
                   exabyte formats.  -tom
1998/8/20 [Consumer/Camera] UID:14490 Activity:nil
8/19    Out of curiosity, anybody have a favorite $400-800 digital camera that
        they can recommend?  I just checked and
        I'm caught in a deluge of info.  This is a gift item for somebody
        like yourself.
        \_ Sony's X-Ray vision cameras!
1998/8/14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:14458 Activity:moderate
8/13    Woohoo!  Sony develops see through clothes video camera!
        \_ I heard it on AM740 too.  Any URL?
        \_ You're late.  They already took it off the market.  This was
           "news" 3 days ago.  WAKE UP OUT THERE!
                \_ There are still some 80 thousand(?) of them floating
                   around, so the next time you are walking around
                   Fisherman's Wharf and a tourist aims his camera at
                   \_ I deck him and have him arrested.
1998/4/3-6 [Consumer/Camera] UID:13896 Activity:high
4/3     Can someone explain something about digital cameras?  What format
        do they save images in (JPG? GIF? BMP?)?  And can I take these
        saved files to a film shop and have them print them on regular old
        Kodak paper?  (Any ideas how much that would cost?)
        \_ Image format depends on the kind of camera you're using.  The Kodak
           camera I used saved images internally in TIFF/EP, and came with
           software that let you download to the host computer and save in the
           format of your choice.  You _can_ print digital images to normal
           light-sensitive photo paper, but you'll probably end up using a
           dye-sublimation printer instead.  _Media_ cost for a dye-sub
           printer is about $3-$4/page, I don't know what a service bureau
           would charge you on top of that.  -- kahogan
           \_ The quality of images printed from a digital camera will also
              be much lower than a real photograph.  Most models without
              exorbitant costs are intended for WWW work, not printing or
              design, and you will probably notice.
                \_ megapixel cameras, which have quality as good as typical
                   point-and-shoot cameras, have come down into the $500 range
                   \_ I stand corrected. -- 1-year-old digital camera owner
           \_ I used a Sony DSC-1 (Digital Still Camera) last month.
              This costs $400, and stores 33 640x480 (16-bit color?) images
              in JPEG format on 4 MB internal flash memory.  Transfer to PC
              is via supplied cable to a serial port at 38400 bps.  Image
              quality ranges from 30-80% (depending on how still you hold the
              camera) of a $50 35mm camera.  I agree that 1024x800 cameras
              are a better bet for 35mm quality, and most come with zoom.
              I agree cameras like the DSC-1 would be good for WWW work.
              \_ is a good source of info  -tom
1998/3/17 [Consumer/PDA, Consumer/Camera] UID:13820 Activity:high
3/16    My Sony camcorder's tape is stuck inside. The eject button does
        not work so I cannot get the tape out. On screen it shows there is
        a red tape button. Does anyone also have this problem??How to fix?
        \_ Try smashing it on the ground and see if you can get the tape
           out that way.  Remember to use a _hard_ surface (e.g., concrete).
        \_ I'll fix it if I can keep the tape of your nekkid gf doing those
           four dudes.
1998/3/13-17 [Consumer/Camera, Consumer/PDA] UID:13801 Activity:low 71%like:13798
3/13    Does anybody know how to repair the tape transport of a Sony camcorder
        or know somebody who is an expert doing this? Thanks.
          \_ try Resistance Repair... in west Berkeley.
             \_ guerilla repairmen?
                \_ Brazil?
                   \_ yes.  but before you can hire one, you need
                      to fill out a 27B/6.  have you got one, then?
                      no?  well, dont come back till you do!
1998/3/9-10 [Consumer/Camera] UID:13778 Activity:very high
3/8     ok more goodies for sale.  Brand new Sharp digital Camera. I
        bought 2...but my friend backed out.  So it's 3 days old.
        4 MB flash memory, 120 pictures max, 2.5" TTF screen, 640x480 res.
        TV output, doubles as digital video camera for vdo conferencing.
        $599 retail.  Give me a price!  I''m gonna have to eat this one.
        \_ Some friend.... 3 days old?  Return it.  This is America, God
           Damn It!  You have the natural born right to return anything you
           damn well please for no reason at all, get a full refund, *and*
           an apology from a pimply faced clerk for their having sold you a
           product you didn't desire.
           \_ he either bought it from one of those shady electronics shops
              in chinatown, or it's hot, or both. --aaron
                \_ Then he deserves to be screwed.
                        \_ HITRAN DESERVES TO BE SCREWED!!!
1998/2/17-18 [Finance/Shopping, Consumer/Camera] UID:13688 Activity:high
2/17    where can i get 6 rolls of 35mm negatives reprint, cheap? -jwang
        \_ Price Club / Costco.  Even if you choose Kodak processing, it's
           still cheaper than Kodak processing in drug stores. --- yuen
           \_ If you don't mind hundreds of people pawing through the racks
              to find their film, ruining yours.
                \_ You get what you pay for.
1998/2/3 [Consumer/Camera] UID:13613 Activity:high
2/3     Did aspolito ever get a camera for his gay home videos?
        \_ I mailed him offering mine, but he never responded.  He must be too
                busy rehearsing.
1998/1/30-2/2 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Dating] UID:13599 Activity:high
1/29    Once again I'm begging for use of a video camera.  This
        is for a class project (Anthro 138B Ethnographic Filmaking) with
        two other people and will NOT i repeat NOT be used for any sort
        of porn, straight or gay.   (Not sure why I have to say this but
        for some reason you sodans seem to think I'm some sex fiend)
        \_ Yer filming me aren't you. What am I, a hermaphrodite?
           my grandiose body parts not naked enough for you?
        \_ So you're going to film yourself and other men of non-white
           ethnic origins having sexual relations?
        \_ porn for a female audience is known as "erotica" - danh
           \_ I'm male and I like "erotica".  Does that make me female?
                        - Gender Confused?
                \_ No, it just makes you tawei.
        \_ Cant you get one from work or somewhere?
         \_ If I could do you tihnk I'd be begging on the motd? -aspo
         \_ how about Good Guys?
            \_ "My gay lover and I bought this camera together to take sexually
                explicit videos of each other -- but he ran away two weeks ago
                to join the crew of a shrimp boat, so I don't need it anymore.
                Your return policy covers this, right?"
        \_ aspo, don't hide our love behind (heh) lies.  Tell em it's for us
           to record our deep (heh) love for all times.  We'll have B5 and
           Gayboy night at Nick's.  (No offense intended towards Nick).
           \_ Yeah.  You like the attention.  Go rent one.  Or buy one, use
              it, return it.  Or better yet, drop the class and get a life.
1993/8/10 [Consumer/Camera, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:31381 Activity:nil
8/9     Did someone leave a roll of (used)FujiColor 400/24exp film in the csua?
        I lost a roll a while back and was wondering if this was mine. --psb
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