Computer SW RevisionControl - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:RevisionControl:
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2012/4/2-6/4 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:54353 Activity:nil
4/02    We use Perforce at work for revision control. It seems to work okay.
        Lately, a lot of the newer developers are saying that Perforce
        sucks and we should switch to Mercurial or Git. I have done some
        searching on the Internet and some others have this opinion. Added
        advantage is that Mercurial and Git are free. However, there would
        be some work to switch for the sysadmins and the developers.
        Is it worth it or do people just like what's shiny?
        \_ I *love* git but there are good reasons to use Perforce. Do they hold
           for you?
        \_ I *love* git but there are good reasons to use Perforce. Do they
           hold for you?
           \_ That post pretty much describes my experiences with git and p4.
              Unlike the author, I do use the distributed stuff in git (it's
              nice to have a local repository when you're working from home),
              but everything else is right on.
           \_ We're moving from Perforce to Git. Too many branches and pushing
              code around is painful. Idea is to properly componentize the platform
              and apps, and have 1 repo per jar, stored our GitHub-FI. Let maven
              download the dependencies and do the build locally. We'll see...
              code around is painful. Idea is to properly componentize the
              platform and apps, and have 1 repo per jar, stored our
              GitHub-FI. Let maven download the dependencies and do the build
              locally. We'll see...
        \_ These "new" developers want the latest and greatest. Hint. It's
           not about the language or the revision control system. It's how
           you use them. There are 10000s of ways to use Git. What is the
           convention you guys agreed on? That is more important that anything
           else. What happens if architect A wants to use convention A and
           another architect insists on using convention B and they're
           incompatible and you end up with a massively distributed unmergeable
           monster and end up bifurcating the code base? You're FUCKED!!!
           Another thing: having a code-review system is much more important
           than the revision control system. If you don't know what that is
           or understand why that is more important than language/system/platform
           then you should not be in a position to make this type of decision.
           What is your position in the company and are you in the position
           to make this type of decision?
           or understand why that is more important than language/system/
           platform then you should not be in a position to make this type of
           decision. What is your position in the company and are you in the
           position to make this type of decision?
2009/5/4-6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:52943 Activity:moderate
5/4     When is kchang coming back? I miss him... he was so annoying but at
        least he had some initiative. If he were around, I'd ask him to chart
        the MOTD usage patterns over time. My guess is that postings peaked
        in '95.
        \_ I'm here! You can just go to the main page and see how many posts
           there are in a year (top column). Keep in mind I grabbed posts
           randomly between 93-99, relied on mehlhaff's RCS logger between
           99-03, and logged myself afterwards.                 -kchang
           \_ Welcome back! Unfortunately, you've probably matured in the
              past five years. Tell me it ain't so.
              \_ Maybe I'm just a ficticious character          -kchang
                 \_ please don't sign under my name             -real kchang
                    \_ This is why motd sucks.
2008/4/3-9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:49661 Activity:nil
4/3     In "p4 client", modtime/nomodtime sets the file timestamp to
        either the modification time from submitting client or the time that
        the file is fetched.  Is there a way to set the file timestamp to
        the time that the file was submitted, like what ClearCase does?  Thx.
        \_ How is this different from the modtime option? Are you concerned
           about clock skew or timezone differences?
           \_ Say someone has a local file with a last-modification date of
              1/1/2001 in the local file system.  He submits it on 4/2/2008 and
              I sync to it on 4/3/2008.  Now, "nomodtime" will make the last-
              modification of my copy of the file 4/3/2008, while "modtime"
              will make it 1/1/2001.  I want 4/2/2008.  -- OP
2008/1/10-12 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:48922 Activity:nil
1/10    In subversion (svn) is there a way to check out a file from
        a different BRANCH for diff purposes?
        \_ More specifically, do you want to compare your working copy of
           file.c with one in a branch?  Or do you want to compare the
           repository copy of file.c in trunk vs. file.c in branch?
           \_ compare a particular revision in trunk with a particular
              revision in another branch.               -op
              \_ Probably the easiest thing to do is get the two files and do a
                 simple diff.
2007/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:48416 Activity:moderate
10/22   # There's a problem with this function, someone please fix it?
        def dans:
          while True: spew_troll_on_motd()
        \_ Hey man, I've got to do something while I wait for svn. -dans
           \_ how about posting jokes and videos instead of rants
              against tom holub?
           \_ Wait for svn to do WHAT? I use svn and it is as instantaneous
              as cvs. In fact, isn't svn based on cvs?
              \_ svn can get slow if you've got a big project.  However, it is
                 *not* based on cvs.  It is designed from the ground up to be a
                 better replacement for cvs. -emarkp
              \_ svn used by many developers for a large project on a heavily
                 loaded server can be painfully slow. -dans
                 \_ just curious: what are you working on?
        \_ please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the big problem with
           'slow svn' is you imported some gigantic cvs suppository, and
           svn is having a hard time dealing with the cvs history.
           \_ yermom handles gigantic imports just fine
           \_ No, the svn repository I work with was always an svn repository.
              One issue is that we're upgrading to a new version with an
              incompatible database format so we need to replay years of
              history to get it into the new version. -dans
2007/10/3-7 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:48238 Activity:high
10/3    Is there a command in cvs that'll tell me what files I've
        editted/changed from the original cvs update?  \_ Use the -n flag.
        I normally use cvs -n update.  \_ Do you have to use CVS or can
        you migrate to something else?
           \_ Yeah, subversion is quite nice.  I hated it at first, though
              \_ How do you find out what files I've editted in svn?
                 \_ svn status -q
              \_ Subversion has a lot of FUCKED concepts.  Like how tags
                 and branches actually move the path to your files.
                 However compared to cvs, svn wins.  \_ ??? The biggest
                 problems are:
                    1) lack of automated merge suppport (big improvements
                    planned for next version), and 2) 'move' is actually
                    'cp and rm'  (don't know when this is expected
                    to change).  \_ I'm not a revision control expert.
                    Why is move being a
                       cp and rm a bad thing? -dans \_ Heh.  Work answers
                          So a little while back I renamed some
                          branches. Seems pretty okay, right? Anyone
                          with a checked-out copy can just svn switch...
                          ... except that svn considers the mv internally
                          to be svn cp + svn rm, so it has now forgotten
                          the revision history on that branch prior to
                          the svn mv. So if you, like me, do svn log
                          . --stop-on-copy to get a look at a glance at
                          what changes have been made since the branch
                          was cut, you can't.  Q: Are there other things
                          that go wrong with svn mv?  -dans \_ Branch.
                          Do a mv on a file.  Edit file.  Merge.
                             Pain happens. -aspo
        \_ Use the -n flag.  I normally use cvs -n update.
        \_ Do you have to use CVS or can you migrate to something else?
           \_ Yeah, subversion is quite nice.  I hated it at first, though
              \_ How do you find out what files I've editted in svn?
                 \_ svn status -q
              \_ Subversion has a lot of FUCKED concepts.  Like how tags
                 and branches actually move the path to your files.  However
                 compared to cvs, svn wins.
                 \_ ??? The biggest problems are:
                    1) lack of automated merge suppport (big improvements
                    planned for next version), and
                    2) 'move' is actually 'cp and rm'  (don't know when this is
                    expected to change).
                    \_ I'm not a revision control expert.  Why is move being a
                       cp and rm a bad thing? -dans
                       \_ Heh.  Work answers all:
                          So a little while back I renamed some branches. Seems
                          pretty okay, right? Anyone with a checked-out copy
                          can just svn switch...
                          ... except that svn considers the mv internally to be
                          svn cp + svn rm, so it has now forgotten the revision
                          history on that branch prior to the svn mv. So if
                          you, like me, do svn log . --stop-on-copy to get a
                          look at a glance at what changes have been made since
                          the branch was cut, you can't.
                          Q: Are there other things that go wrong with svn mv?
                          \_ Branch.  Do a mv on a file.  Edit file.  Merge.
                             Pain happens. -aspo
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2007/8/20-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:47672 Activity:nil
8/20    motd munged.  please add back entries.
        \_ I've only been sporadically manually checking in the current
           /etc/motd.public into my rcs archive.  I haven't updated my
           automated scripts to deal with the change.  Anyoen know if this
           sorry state of affairs is going to last long enough to warrant
           me fixing my process to deal with the borken motd updater? -ERic
           \_ Assuming this would be a 'yes', I have already fixed my scripts.
2006/8/10-14 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:43961 Activity:nil
8/10    Perforce question.  When submitting files, is there a way to tell
        Perforce to verify that the files are actually different before
        allowing them to be submitted?  ClearCase does this automatically.
        \_ I right-click my pending changelist and select "Revert if unchanged"
           Everything that remains has diffs.  This also makes it easy to
           to catch myself before I submit a modification I didn't intend.
           \_ Cool!  Thanks!
           \_ Cool!  Thanks!  -- OP
           \_ This is 'p4 revert -a' from the command line. -gm
              \_ Even better.  Thanks.  --- OP
2006/7/7-10 [Finance/Investment, Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Science/Space] UID:43587 Activity:nil
7/7     If the Space Shuttle has no fuel tank, how does it change course when
        it tries to leave orbit and return to earth?  Thx.
        \_ It has small thrusters on it.
           \_ Yep, they jet compressed O2, IIRC.  Basically they just nudge
              themselves "down" a bit, coast down, nose up to come in w/
              the heat tiles facing down, and then once in atmo and not falling
              like a rock can use aileron/elevators and rudder.
              \_ Those are the attitude adjustment nozzles.  It also has a
                 main deorbiting thruster that uses a small amount of rocket
        \_ for 'in-space' maneuvering, it has two different sets of rockets.
           The RCS thrusters for attitude adjustment and fine maneuvering,
           and the OMS engines (two 'medium sized' rockets on the back) for
           larger orbital adjustments.  -ERic
2006/6/16 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:43414 Activity:nil
6/15    A co-worker checked out a file under RCS and then went on vacation.
        What is the right way to unlock this?
        \_ rcs(1)
        \_ rcs -u
2006/5/19-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:43107 Activity:nil
5/19    is cvs no longer supported on soda?
        \_ Mail root.
2006/5/1-4 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:42875 Activity:nil
5/1     what do you use for source code control?
        list of opensource ones:
        (Thanks for the link danh)
        what is this?:
        cp foo foo.bak: +-
        rcs: ++
        cvs: +++
        c-fucking-v-goddamned-s: +
        subversion: +++
        VSS: +
        perforce: +++++
        cat | mail +
        \_ i used cvs at a previous job, then we switched to perforce. job
           after was perforce. now using subversion. i think i like perforce
           best so far -- but havent really had a chance to try anything
           complicated with subversion yet. perforce branching seems
           pretty sophisticated    - rory
2006/4/3-4 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:42636 Activity:nil
4/3     What's the easiest way to open up cvs port 2401 to certain IPs only
        while rejecting the rest?
        \_ Easiest? tcp wrappers. Best? ACLs on your firewall/router.
2006/3/24-27 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:42408 Activity:moderate
3/24    I want to hire an experienced Release Engineer to build our
        Perforce system. We're converting from CVS. --
        \_ hey jsjacob, you should come across the hall and say hi to all
           the sodans at wavemarket sometime.
           \_ You could just BTK our build engineer.
              \_ I rather BBFS your hot blonde HR hello nurse.
                             \_ BTK?
                                \_ Blind, Torture, Kill
                                   \_ Bind
           \_ Sure, right after I use the patio table again. Hi. -- jsjacob
        \_ quick question.  Why did you decide on Perforce, instead of (say)
           \_ Not jsjacob, but perforce is a lot slicker the subversion
           \_ Perforce has cool tools *right now* and I have a budget.
              I think subversion will be equivalent in a few years but
              I can't wait. -- jsjacob
              \_ Okay, just out of curiosity, what are the features you liked?
               \_ Views can be incredibly powerful if you use them well.  For
                  instance, are you only working on part of the code base
                  and don't want to compile the rest?  Open up your view
                  which uses the daily builds to populate most of your build
                  tree.  Want to start working on another part of the code?
                  Just tweak your view (or use a different part of the view)
                  so you have to build the rest of the code.  SVN's lack of
                  view support makes me sad.
                 \_ Views can be incredibly powerful if you use them well.
                    For instance, are you only working on part of the code
                    base and don't want to compile the rest?  Open up your
                    view which uses the daily builds to populate most of
                    your build tree.  Want to start working on another part
                    of the code?  Just tweak your view (or use a different
                    part of the view) so you have to build the rest of the
                    code.  SVN's lack of view support makes me sad.
                 \_ Proxy, graphical merge, permissions admin. -- jsjacob
                    \_ I don't know what "proxy" is for perforce, but graphical
                       merge and permissions admin exist for SVN.
                       \_ I know, but not at the same level. I know SVN has
                          similar tools and in a few years I'm sure I'll be
                          considering moving to SVN to drop the license fees.
                          This is proxy:
                       \_ I know, but not at the same level. This is proxy:
2006/2/9-11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:41783 Activity:kinda low
2/9     I'm starting a personal programming project and I need some revision
        control system.  What would you suggest given that the client and
        server must run on Windows?
        \_ Subversion
           \_ Seconded. Subversion is probably the best revision control
              system I've used. It is as easy to use and maintain as cvs
              but has almost all the features of clearcase (including
              versioned directories and symlinks).
           \_ what is wrong with CVS?    --clueless
        \_ Does it have to be free?
           \_ Free or <$50 for 1 user.
        \_ Perforce is free for two users. If you make your project open
           source, you can get a free multi-user license from them; I don't
           know how willingly they give those out. I've heard svn is close to
           p4 in functionality, even if it does pollute your file system. -gm
           \_ p4 does a lot more than svn, but if you are a one or two person
              team you probably won't ever use all that lot more.
           \_ I didn't know that.  Since that's what we use at work and I'm
              reasonably happy with it that sounds like a good solution. Is
              there anything better about Subversion I should know? -op
           \_ I used Perforce in my previous job and now I use ClearCase.
              Perforce has a nice feature called "change list" which ClearCase
              doesn't.  It's for grouping together related changes in multiple
              files.  Submitting changes in multiple files using change list
              is atomic.  You can include and exclude changes using the change
              list number.  You can also look up which changes in which other
              files are tied to this change in this file, via the change list
              number.  I wish there is something similar in ClearCase.  Now
              in ClearCase we have to create labels for every change, and rely
              on the individual engineer to manually list all the changed files
              in the label description.  Using labels doesn't make checking-in
              atomic either.
2005/12/27-30 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:41142 Activity:low
12/27   I have two subversion respositories A and B. I want to import the
        contents of A into B and get rid of A, but I don't want to lose
        the version history. Is there anyway to do this? tia.
        \_ what version control system?
           \_ dumbass - "I have two subversion respositories A and B."
              \_ not all vcs are created equal
                 \_ Have you not heard of subversion?  You're sounding stupider
                    by the post.
                    \_ And it all went quiet in the city
                       and the wind blew down the road
                       someone cried out SUBVERT
                       and the people all went cold
                    \_ never heard of it
                       \_ Who's on first?
           \_ I'm using subversion:
              In cvs/rcs days this sort of thing was easy, I'd just copy
              the ,v files, but subversion uses BerkeleyDB so I'm exactly
              sure how to go about doing this.
              \_ Around 1.1 or 1.2 SVN began to use FSFS as default.  However,
                 it's not the file format that's complicated, it's the two
                 repositories.  Do you want to retain the date of the histories
                 as well as the revisions themselves?  You may want to look at
                 the vss2svn project, which is some perl scripts for doing this
                 for vss.
                 \_ No I just wanted to revisions, not the dates. The post
                    below was basically what I was looking for. Thanks.
           \_ Thanks. I figured it out from the manual as well:
              I just had to dump the two respositories and then load
              them back into a new repository.  This preserved all of
              the version information I wanted.
              \_ a good software engineer is a good historian!
2005/8/11-15 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:39096 Activity:nil
8/11    Does anyone here use subversion? I recently switched over to
        subversion from cvs and I'm trying to figure out what the best
        way to back up the repository is (small personal repository).
        Any recommendations?
        \_ Are you using the file backend or the bdb one?
           \_ I'm using the Berkeley db back end (bdb?). My plan was
              to use svn dump and then burn the resulting file to a
              dvd-rw once a week or so.
        \_ I've been using it for about a year (and love it).  If your svn
           server version is 1.2 or higher then your default repository is in
           fsfs format.  You can just copy the repository folders on the fly
           and you should be fine.  Otherwise, look into 'svnadmin dump'.  See
           the svn book at: in particular:
           \_ I am using the latest version of subversion (1.2.4?). I read
              that copying the files wasn't a good idea in the subversion
              book, which is why I was asking about this.
2005/8/8-9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:39052 Activity:low
8/8     How do you make clear case behave simpler, like say CVS. My office
        is using it and it has way too many features and complications, but
        are not going to be switching to CVS anytime soon. We develop using
        Clearcase\ibm eclipse\MQ. -nesim
        \_ Uhm, shouldn't you be asking clearcase this question? You figure
           that the amount you're paying them per seat license you'd get
           answers to this sort of question.
           \_ clearly you haven't dealt with IBM "support".
              \_ Ugh.  Thanks for opening that wound again.  I hate those
                 fucking bastards.  -John
        \_ Use Base Clearcase or Clearcase LT instead of ClearCase UCM?
        \_ I haven't used CC in many years, but you used to be able to
           enable something called the "offline" module. This was like
           CVS in that you checked everything out and then you worked
           on it and when you were done you checked in your files. You
           didn't need to get all that vob/nfs crap running.
           As far as views, &c. go, you don't need to use any of those
           features if you don't want to.
           \_ Create a snapshot view instead of a dynamic view if you want to
              work off-line.
2005/4/6-7 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:37080 Activity:kinda low
4/5     I'm in a big dilemma. When I do "cvs update -P" it works most of
        the time, but for some reason some files don't get updated AT ALL!
        I end up having to delete them manually and then do a cvs update
        to get the latest version. I'm so tempted to re-checkout the entire
        tree (which will cost me 4-5 hours to rebuild, etc). What's going on?
        \_ May have sticky tags.  Try doing cvs update -A
        \_ Have you checked the permissions on the troubled files and
           their parent directories?
           \_ Also make sure they don't have system immutable flag set
              or something similarly silly (man chflags)  -John
2005/3/30-31 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:36979 Activity:high
3/30    Is it Kosher to write a closed-source program which calles a GPL
        program on the command line but does not link to it?
        \_ Very likely yes, but people will disagree with you.  For
           instance, I'm sure there are many apps which call gcc, or
           cvs/svn (not sure about the license on the latter 2, but for
           gcc, I think it's GPL-not-LGPL.
           \_ I think it depends whether you are bundling the GPL utility
              with your program.  If you just call "mv" or whatever,
              GPL has nothing to say about that, but if you include a
              binary in your closed-source distribution, I think that's
              a violation.  -tom
              \_ What about a closed-source distribution which includes the
                 binary of the GPL as well as the source for only the GPL
                 component.  The closed-source project would just call
                 "$GPLPROG $ARGS" through a shell.
                 \_ I believe one of the complaints a lot of people have
                    about the GPL is that it requires you to open-source your
                    entire project if you use any GPL code in your
                    distribution.  So, I don't think you can use it the way
                    you describe.  -tom
        \_ This is a complicated issue. One point of view is that it is not
           only the code that is GPL'ed but also the calling interface,
           provided that the calling interface does not conform to an
           external "standard" (a non-gpl program that implements the same
           cli opts, might be a "standard" for this purpose).
           Perhaps the more mainstream point of view is that the gpl only
           applies to incorporation, ie you have one big binary in which
           some src files are gpl'ed. As long as you don't distrubte the
           gpl'ed pgm in binary only you are probably okay.
       \_ Related question: Can a function from a GPL project be included into
          a LGPL project, since the LGPL is *more* free?
2005/2/7 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:36087 Activity:kinda low
2/7     Does anyone have actual experience using Visual SourceSafe with
        non-exclusive checkouts?  I've heard that it's bad at merging, but
        nothing specific.
        \_ We used to use VSS for years only doing non-exclusive checkouts.
           Works fine for the most part. Occasionally a merge will be
           tricky, but unless two people are editing the same exact
           lines it's not so bad. Eventually we switched to a different
           system for other reasons. -bz
           \_ What did you switch to, and for what reasons? --darin
           \_ I'm most interested in whether VSS barfed at any time, like two
              checkins getting garbled, etc.
        \_ Used it for ~4 years for thesis work with other folks. Never any
           barfage. Sometimes we'd have to clean up a failed merge, but that's
           true of any src control system. It was really solid. I'd recommend
2004/12/9-10 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:35227 Activity:nil
12/9    I have an existing, not checked out file that is newer than
        the latest file in the rcs repository.  Is there a flag I
        can give to 'ci' that just checks it in, or a flag I can
        give to 'co' to *just* create a lock without overwriting
        the file.  I want to avoid:  cp file file.tmp; co -l file;
        mv file.tmp file; ci -u file
        \_ rcs -l file
2004/11/24-26 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:35063 Activity:nil
11/24   How does one list the tag names/branches in CVS?
        \_ $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/val-tags
         \- it's on sourceforge, now what? Also how do you list the modules? thx
            \_ cvsweb.
        \_ all the above are wrong. the correct answer is 'cvs log -t'
           and you're welcome.                          -cvs god
2004/9/30-10/1 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:33851 Activity:nil
9/30    82% of teenage boys wear cologne.
        \_ 38.45% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
2004/8/12-13 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:32862 Activity:nil
8/12    Say I have some directories in a CVS tree containing source for
        related libraries. Some of these libraries have dependencies on
        other libraries. If I want to be able to retrieve a particular
        version of a library, along with the correct versions of the other
        libraries it's dependent on, how should I organize things? I was
        thinking of tagging the library and its dependencies with the
        same tag, like libfoo-1-1-0 or something, and then doing a
        cvs update -f -r libfoo-1-1-0, but this has some drawbacks. Does
        anyone know of better methods? Thanks.
        \_ What drawbacks?  This would be the correct method.  tag the group
           or trees (with the desired versions) under an umbrella tag.
2004/7/31-8/1 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Recreation/Humor] UID:32613 Activity:insanely high
7/31    [ no, see, you need to restore the entire thread. ]
        \_ Grow up you self-righteous little worm and stop seeing so called
           censorship everywhere.  It was a partial restore because that was
           what was easily extractable from the logs.  If you want to do
           better, then restore everything yourself.  It was clear this was
           not an ideologically driven edit.
           \_ I don't care whether it was ideologically driven, petty, or
              another kind of edit.  Whenever it happens, surrounding context
              will get nuked.  End of story.  Don't edit other people's shit.
              \_ Yep, temper tantrum.
              \_ Hey little worm, do you understand this is not a matter of
                 any "editing"'s a matter of a best effort *restore*.
                 You are punishing the wrong person.  It probably isn't worth
                 my time to catch you doing this, but let's not beat around
                 the bush and pretend there is some principle in what you
                 are doing.
                 \_ No, *this* is the temper tantrum.
                    \_ No, this is aggrivation.
                       \_ And this is bad spelling.
        \_ Shrug.  Not my thread, not my posts.  I just restored as a public
           service.  Why don't you restore what I missed, if it means so
           much to you?  Don't know how to run rcs, do you?
           \_ Nuking all discussion as a response to partial deletes is much
              more effective than restores.
              \_ great, now we have an effective way to get rid of trolls
              \_ Gee, and I thought you were just a child throwing a temper
              \_ Nuking all discussion as a response to anything is stupid.
                 Restoring the damaged thread to an undamaged state immediately
                 and without comment is the best way to fight childish partial
                 deletes and the typical not-at-all-funny edits on the motd.
                 \_ Not all discussion, just the thread in question.  The
                    reasoning goes like this: any edit (except accidental ones)
                    whether ideological, joke, etc entails a lack of respect
                    for what the (edited) person had to say.  Why should that
                    person be singled out for said lack of respect?  Let's
                    apply it uniformly.  The environment we are shooting for is
                    "edit someone's post -> no one gets to have any more fun."
                    \_ You need to make a distinction between ideological
                       edits and partial restores because a thread was
                       "damaged" ... partial edits, then added to, then
                       partial restores etc ... which someone tries to
                       unideologically restore the bulk of rather than
                       leaving it truncated.
                       \_ I appreciate the attempt at public service, but
                          frankly, if you are just restoring a truncated
                          version then don't bother.  It has the same effect
                          as just leaving partial edits be.  I am not going to
                          let partial edits be.
2004/5/12-13 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30194 Activity:very high
5/12    So, do people think the motd is better without locking and some
        few over writes or the way it is now where motdedit totally fucks
        up the merge and munges a lot of posts?
        \_ The MOTD is better when people don't change it out from under
           someone who has a lock.
        \_ I think motdedit is an abomination.
           \_ I think people who stomp over other's posts are an abomination.
              \- i am outraged over the outrage.
           \_ That was very confusing until I realized you were talking about
              a program, and not yourself.
        \_ What is the problem with asking people try not to force write?
                \_ it doesn't work
        \_ the solution to this problem is simple. CVS. CVS does a better
           job at ci/co, and we'll keep a revision. I'd say it's a brilliant
           yet simple idea.
        \_ telling people to use certain programs to edit motd is like putting
           up a sign on the freeway that says "be nice to other drivers and
           say no to road rage!" It just doesn't work.
        \_ proposal, use CVS to handle merging which we know works way
           better than achoi's merge. The other advantage is knowing who
           edit/censors/alters the content and having an archived log.
           aye: ..
        \_ why not try to improve the merge program?
        \_ I think the mis-merging is usually pretty funny.  It's also
           easier to fix that having someone else accidently overwrite my
           post, now it still exists, just in the wrong place.
2004/4/23-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:13360 Activity:nil
4/23    Has mehlhaff officially suspended his motd rcs script?
        -r--r--r--  1 mehlhaff  csua  3396797 Apr 20 13:04 motd,v
        I know about kchang's motd archive, but it misses many things.
                                                   \- being worked on --psb
        \_ yeah it misses a lot of trolls and non-PC and controversial
           threads that other people delete because they find it offensive.
           \_ Unfortuunately, quite a few useful technical answers are being
              missed, while quite a few stupid trolls are getting throug.
        \_ You bunch of whining lamers.  It's just a cron job and a few
           cvs/rcs commands.  I'd tell you to 'write' your own, but it isn't
           even a real project.
2004/4/20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:13281 Activity:nil
4/20    Can we please have a separate motd.public for politics, tech, and
        misc? if we have separate motd.public, we can enable the
        by default for newbies (I'm sure they'll appreciate it) while
        disabling motd.politics which is usually filled with offensive,
        non-PC flame/troll baits.
        \_ No.
        \_ I think that's a good idea.
           \_ Do it then ass monkey. Make a file called /var/tmp/motd.boring
              and see how many people you can talk into using it.
        \_ proposal:
                /etc/          enabled by default
                /etc/motd.humor         enabled by default
                /etc/motd.politics      disabled by default
                /etc/motd.misc          disabled by default
                /etc/motd               concatination of the above files
           Enabling motd by default should encourage more people to
           participate on motd so if psb/tom decide to get a life (they're
           having mid 30 something crisis for heavens sake) there will still
           be motd continuation.
           \_ proposal:
              1) fuck off
              2) find some other online forum to ruin with your idiocy
           \_ Problem 1:  Trolls will only touch the files that are displayed
              by default.
              Problem 2:  Some technical posts inevitable spawn political
              threads, whice leads to the post's deletion.
              Problem 3:  Humor posts are semi-rare, and often offensive.  Do
              they really deserve their own file?  Why not merge into politics?
           \_ One of the purposes of the MOTD (and the csua) is social
              interaction.  I think, even more appropriate than tech posts
              are posts like "Volleyball 3-5 PM on Friday" or "CSUA
              movie run to see Monty Python at the Paramount".  One of the
              significant deleterious effects of all the anonymous trolling
              that goes on is that there's too much noise to get any
              signal through.  But splitting the MOTD up won't help
              with that.  I think putting it under RCS/CVS (so usage is logged)
              would.  -tom
              \_ Monty Python?  Volleyball?  tom, you are OLD.
           \_ Funny posts are usually not intentional and even when they are
              they are usually part of a post about one of the other subjects.
              so having a humor file doesn't make sense.
2004/4/8 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29911 Activity:high
4/8     Can you guys PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave messages on for at least
        12 hours before deleting them? I don't poll motd at work every
        hour so I miss some of the posts, and I don't like to use mehlhaff's
        user unfriendly rcs archive. Thanks.
        \_ what's user-unfriendly about vi?
        \_ If every worthless troll was left up for 12 hours, the motd
           would be 50 pages long. Do you really want that?
           \_ I think it'd be more like 20 pages, and yes, I want that. -!op
              \_ i also want that. so do a lot of people. censors are basically
                 bad people, and are a minority...just like in society at
                 \_ motd archives exist.  just do a restore after the
                    censors delete.  i do for threads i care about.
                    \_ no one should have to "just do a restore" to go see
                       what they might have missed because some pedantic
                       selfish self righteous self inflated asshole thinks
                       he knows what does and does not belong on the motd.
        \_ what's user-unfriendly about less/more?
2004/4/8-9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:13101 Activity:nil
4/8     rcs is your friend.
2004/2/11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:12215 Activity:high
2/10    Is clearcase much superior over CVS? I've never used clearcase
        before, only cvs and sourcesafe. I need it for binary files
        only. Does the commercial product offer compelling value?
        Thanks, --williamc
        \_ Clearcase is really ment for the thousand person development
           team with multiple concurrent branches of development on
           several architectures, etc. It works pretty well if you can
           throw lots of big iron at it and you have an army of
           sysadmins to keep it happy.
           There are certains things I liked about it (versioned
           objects, views) but if you are a 1-50 person group CC is
           \_ if you need an army of sysadmins to keep a single clearcase
              system happy you need new sysadmins.  --sysadmin
                \_ not neccesarily an army of sysadmins, but for a decent size
                   company with a few different vobs and plenty of views, you
                   will eventually need a build engineer as well and probably
                   a toolsmith (if not the same guy) just to keep clearcase
                   managable and happy and to keep the engineers from doing
                   very destructive things.
                \_ While I suppose that a single system running
                   running the clearcase server might be enough
                   for a small shop, ever place I've seen it
                   each site had several clustered systems
                   running the vobs and doing replication and
                   \_ ok, 2 sysadmins and a 3rd because someone will quit or
                      be sick sometimes.
        \_ For a smaller project you might want to look at perforce instead of
           clearcase.  It gives you changelists, views, good branching support,
           and a decent ui as well as powerful command line tools.  Not to
           mention it is pretty damn cheap.
           \_ yes... it's better than cvs, and 20x better than vss
           \_ $750 per for 1-20 licenses is cheap?  ok, cheaper than $100k
              for a dc or gazillion for magma.  but then cvs is free and
              works well enough for most stuff.
2004/2/11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:12212 Activity:nil
2/11    danh and other people who keep a RCS log of motd, could you please
        put yout RCS file,v on your public_html directory for a few hours
        so that I can download it? Thanks!
        \_ why dont you copy it to your public_html
        \_ or why don't you use sftp to get it?
2003/10/30 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:10863 Activity:nil
10/29   Hey, this motd is so old I can smell the mold on it.  Is someone
        actually geeky enough to have a CVS repository set up or something?
        \_ With all the censorbots around it's required or conversation dies
           seconds after a thread starts if it doesn't involve USE LINUX,
           \_ Exactly what was the last "ride bike" thread on the MOTD?
              For that matter, there's very little about Linux.  As for
              "light candle", the proverb "it is better to light a candle
              than to curse the darkness," totally applies to people
              who post questions about how to fix broken Microsoft
              products. -tom
2003/10/4-6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:10472 Activity:moderate
10/4    RCS question: I've checked out (with a lock) revision 1.4 of a file
        which has a revision 1.9.  I want to check it in as revision 1.10
        and unlock it.  I thought this would work:
          ci -r1.4 -u1.10 test-contact.html
          but I get an error "ci: warning: redefinition of revision number"
        and revision 1.4 is still locked. I know RCS by default makes a new
        branch when you save changes to an old revision, but I want to keep
        the tree structure linear. Any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?
        general question: how to check in a file and set the revision to the
        next main "trunk?" branch.
        \_ How about:
           $ mv test-contact.html test-contact.sav
           $ co -l test-contact.html
           $ mv test-contact.sav test-contact.html
           $ ci test-contact.html
           \_ not quite what I was looking for. I'd like a
           \_ ok, but that's not quite what I was looking for. I'd like a
              method that uses the ci and co or RCS commands? Thanks..
           \_ A much simpler question: What's the best way to make a new
              revision 1.10 that hass the contents of rev 1.4.  In other
              words "how to jump a previons revision to the top"?
              \_ co -l file; co -u1.4 file; ci file
                 \_ Aah. Excellent! You rock. you saved the day -op
              \_ A general way that works with cvs too:
              method that uses the ci and co or RCS commands? Thanks..
              words "how to jump a previons revision to the top"?
                 \_ Aah. Excellent! You rock. you saved the day -op
                 co -p1.4 file > file; ci file
2003/9/8-9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10110 Activity:nil
9/6     Looking for a way to track download statistics, and webalizer doesn't
        seem to be what I'm looking for.  I want to see how many unique
        IPs downloaded certain files, with nice sort-by-date options and
        a way to figure out how many downloads for each file.  Suggestions?
        \_ I use awstats.  It might do what you want.
  - danh
2003/8/8-10 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:29286 Activity:moderate
8/8     Is there any way to run a cvs server without root such that it can
        support windows users without ssh.
        \_ man pserver
           \_ no joy.
        \_ another way is to download cygwin, install it in windows,
           use the cvs via ssh at the command line - danh
        \_ man pserver
           \_ no joy.
              \_ Um.. okay, read up on pserver on the cvs howto page.
        \_ You can use .rhosts file.  Better to use ssh such as plink though.
2003/7/29 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29173 Activity:nil
7/29    who had that rcs archived motd again?
        \_ C'mon people.  Take a little initiative
           # locate motd,v
        \_ ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v
2003/7/7-8 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:28941 Activity:nil
7/07    CVS gurus, what's the deal here:  cvs update on one of my boxes
        is not getting "added" files.  It still get updates from files that
        are commited and changed, just not newly added (and commited) files.
        But it gets worse:  another box, running the same version of CVS DOES
        get the newly added files.  ARG!  What could possibly be causing this?
        \_ Did you check out an older branch of the code at some point?  If
           so, CVS will try to stay on the old branch and not get new updates.
           To get back to the newest branch you have to clear the sticky
           tag or something.  I think cvs update -A does that.  -emin
        \_ Also, if there are new directories that are not appearing,
           use "update -d" to get those.  --scotsman
2003/6/22-23 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:28805 Activity:low
6/22    I'd like to checkout a revision "one version previous" to the
        current revision. Does RCS have this feature native, or would I need
        to write a script to parse the rlog?
        \_ I think you need a script to get the most recent revision, then
           subtract 1.  Check out /csua/tmp/motdbrowse
2003/6/12 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:28711 Activity:high
6/11    Which of the free email accounts are the most reliable? I have a account that recently has been getting flaky. Anyone
        have any recommendations for yahoo, hotmail, or anything else? Thanks.
        \_ CSUA
        \_ You have broadband?  Host yourself.
                \_ No broadband. I need to use a web-based provider.
                           Work a charm, fast, and I'd trust them a lot more
                           than a free mail provider.  -John
                           \_ Work a charm, foreigner!
                                \_ Fine.  "They work very nicely", you
                                   pedantic hun.  -John
                                   \_ That's Normandic Anglo-Saxon to you.
                                      \_ How about trailer trash honky?
2003/6/11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:28707 Activity:very high
6/11    Has anyone here switched from cvs to subversion?  What has your
        experience been like?  Is subversion installed on soda?  (I haven't
        found it.)
        \_ switch my entire code base from cvs with it's known bugs and work
           arounds to an early beta quality open source project?  I don't
           like my job but I'm not ready to get fired.
           \_ I guess that's a no.  Subversion has been self-hosting for nearly
              two years now with no loss of data.  I'm thinking of using it for
              my own hobby projects, but not in a production environment.
              \_ Self-hosting sounds good but it also means it's only been used
                 in one specific way.  Hobby: ok.  Production: fired.  Let us
                 know how it goes, please.
2003/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:27716 Activity:low
3/16    I wrote a (trivial) program that converts between line termination
        of PC or Mac and Unix.  I want to to use this program with CVS so
        that the repository sees a file with the unix convention although
        the checked out copy always use some other convention.  How can I
        do it automatically and transparently for files with certain
        extensions?  Ok tnx.
        \-emacs hooks. ok bye.
        \_ I'm pretty new to cvs, but i think what you want to do is
           cvs co CVSROOT, edit the cvswrappers file and put something
                 *.[tT][xX][tT] -t /path/to/yourprogram
                 *.[sS][tT] -t /bin/to/yourprogram
2003/3/11-12 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:27648 Activity:moderate
3/10    Our group is looking for a good system to share internal documents
        etc. We went from just using Outlook (too messy and inflexible) to
        Twiki, which my boss says is too hard to maintain. Any
        \_ May not be entirely what you're looking for, but have a peek at
           PHProjekt.  Good for small to mid-size companies and does a lot
           of groupware-type stuff.   I set it up for a client and they love
           it.  -John
        \_ have you considered WebDAV?
           \_ isn't this basically just a protocol? I think the OP is
              looking for some type of "collaborative document sharing"
              system type thing... of which there are many, I just don't
              know the names.
              \_ yeah, that's what I'm looking for. At least now I'll know
                 what to google for... but I'd still like to hear if anyone
                 has recommendations. -op
                 \_ Documentum writes software specifically to address this
                    sort of issue.  It's pretty decent software, but then,
                    it's been four or five years since I've worked there,
                    so I have no idea where they're at these days.      -mice
        \_ I was (and still am) looking for the same thing.  I thought
           what I need is a content-management system.  I have looked
           Twiki / wiki, openCMS, cardboard, and now actually leaning
           toward full-blown php-nuke.  I guess I am not even in the
           right track.
        \_ You need something more than a world writable directory and some
           intelligently named sub-dirs?
        \_ We use cvs at work. People can check stuff in and out etc. With
           the cvs web cgi stuff you can even browse old versions and stuff.
           Its not that hard for you to setup a little checkin web form for
           the PHBs.
           \_ Um, twiki is relatively friendly web based system based on RCS.
              If they can't handle twiki, they definitely can't handle cvs
              plus a couple submit scripts cobbled together by yermom.
                \_ He said twiki was hard to maintain not hard to use.
                   CVS + a couple of web scripts might be easier to maintain
                   for them. If the use Mac or Windows, there are also
                   native GUI cvs clients that might make it easier as
2003/3/6-8 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:27612 Activity:moderate
3/6     I moved a cvs repository.  Now I realized that there is a reference
        to where the repository was, in the CVS/Repository file in every
        checked out cvs dir.  Is there a way at the command level (via an
        option or an environmental variable) to ask cvs to change where it
        look for the repository or a script has to be written to change it
        everywhere?  I thought CVSROOT would do this but it doesn't.  Ok tnx.
        \_ the command you want is
           perl -pi -e 's#old/location#new/location#' `find . -name Repository`
           or rather
           find . -name Repository | xargs perl...
           or alternately, just re-checkout the module.
2003/2/28-3/2 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:27568 Activity:nil
2/18    Can I simply tar an entire CVS repository tree, then migrate it
        elsewhere, or is there some system dependent file there?
        \_ You can move both the CVS repository (the dir with the ,v
           files) and a CVS checkedout directory without any problems.
2003/1/9-10 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:27040 Activity:very high
1/9     I need an archive/revision-control system that keep the repository,
        which is left a relative public system, encrypted.  CVS does not seem
        to do that.  What is an (free/open-source) alternative?
        \_ Do you mean "encrypted on disk" or "requires encrypted
           transmission"?  CVS does the latter; you need to set CVS_RSH=ssh
           and do some more config on the server (there are howtos online).
           For the former, maybe a file system that encrypts data to disk?
           \_ I mean that the (CVSROOT) repository is encrypted on disk.
              I don't need heavy weight encryption.  It is to thwart
              opportunistic voyeur.  -- OP
              \_ rot13.
                 \_ rot26!
              \_ chmod 600 your cvsroot
2002/11/30-12/1 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:26669 Activity:high
11/29   Hello. Is there software to make my PC with a tuner card act as
        a settop box like Tivo? I just found Frivo on sourceforge. anything
        else? -ali
        \_ Ati's tuner card comes with some sort of sw package.
           More like a mere vcr than a tivo, though.
        \_ for Windows:
           however, all software currently available is still completely
           outclassed by a real TiVo.
        \_ as said above the ati cards come w/ software, and ever stuff
           that integrates w/ to help you select the channel
           and time for the shows you want.. for linux try
2002/11/6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26439 Activity:insanely high
11/6    CVS question: let's say your friend... call him Joe... mistakenly
        tagged the repository as a release_X_Y before all the commits were
        in.  Can Joe commit his stuff, and then re-tag the module with the
        same "release_X_Y"?  --joe's friend
        \_ man cvs. read the section about cvs tag
2002/11/6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26431 Activity:low
11/5    SourceSafe sucks.  Does M$ use it interally themselves?
        \_ Yes and no.  MS bought SS and doesn't try to make it better.
           Same with Rational and ClearCase.  Don't use either.
        \_ What is SourceSafe for?
           \_ Storing and eventually corrupting and losing all your source
              code for a company make/break project.
              \_ Switch to ClearCase.
                 \_ Stupid idea.
        \_ Um, what's wrong w/ CVS?
           \_ on large projects, it can get ungainly, though it doesn't have
              to..  however, it's superior to sourcesafe in every possible
           \_ I like CVS, I am just wonderng what M$ uses internally since
              SS is their product but it sucks. -op
              \_ there's some data online about the dev of NT vs. 2000. I'm
                 trying to google it now.  i'll let you know if i find it
        \_ or perforce?
        \_ M$ has a large-scale source license for perforce. I doubt they
           use SS, if at all, for any projects bigger than "really small".
2002/10/28-30 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26347 Activity:nil
10/28   I want to rename a couple files in a cvs repository.  What's the
        best way to do so (assuming I want to maintain the changelogs)?
        \_ rename the file in the CVS root, and update the checkout.
        \_ integrate from to, delete from
2002/10/26-28 [Computer/SW/P2P, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26330 Activity:nil
10/25   is there some sourceforge project that integrates
        a mailing list, file sharing capabilities, member
        profiles, etc... basically i'm looking for a replacement
        for a yahoogroups type mailing list.
        \- gnu mailman is somewhat extensible. --psb
        \_ Emacs has this, M-x set yahoo-replacement mode on
2002/10/21-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26264 Activity:high
10/21   At work, i act as a tech support for a small company,
        I am thinking of dump all the manual, release notes,
        and all the problem i have encountered in the past into
        a sort of knowledge DB... I just want able to search
        things by keyword, nothing fancy.
        what kind of open source content management package
        should I use? there are too many of them at sourceforge.
        I would like to hear you guys' experiences
        \_ just create HTML pages and let Google search them for you.
        \_ I went through this exercise recently for a client. There are NO
                good open-source KM products but the defintion of KM varies
                widely. Many people find Wiki and search engine acceptable.
        \_ How to use mysql and perl/cgi front end?  How to get into Cal and
           knowing to write English goodly?
           \_ don't be an ass.  he got two words wrong.  How many languages
              can you write fluently?
              \_ thanks man.
              \_ just the one that counts in this country and unlike you I
                 provided an answer.  he didn't get two words wrong.  he
                 butchered the mother tongue.
2002/10/20-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26262 Activity:high
10/19   Why bother with locking up motd? Just use CVS. Automatic merge.
        It is so simply.
        \_ I don't believe.  So simpo.
            \_ you have wodie style, beyond compare.
           \_ "I wish today was Wednesday..." -bz
        \_ Because CVS doesn't do automatic spelling or grammar check.  ;-)
            \_  err... how to do spelling or grammar check?
            \_  err... how to spelling or grammar check?
                                        - SOB (still-on-the-boat)
        \_ probably anonymity concerns. these could be abated by putting
           some kind of anonymizer in front of it, or flattening the logged
           uid down to "motd" or some such. --aaron
           \_ who would trust that?  anyway you still get into locking time
              out issues.  locks also allow someone to hog the motd forever
              denying timely response.  it's fine.  those who don't like it
              can use the wall.
2002/9/28-30 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:26034 Activity:nil
9/28    Has anyone tried to reach inside China?
        Those who are inside the mainland, please let me know.
        \_ Since China has decided to go opensource it would be really stupid
           of them to cut themselves off from sourceforge, no?
2002/8/15-16 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:25572 Activity:very high
8/15    Dear motdedit (me) maintainer-- love the new system.  How about a
        warning message from the motd god when there is 1 minute or 30
        seconds left?
        \_ Does me still tell you who has the lock? It doesn't look like it
           from my negligible grasp of perl.
           \_ me never did.  motdedit may have, but its locking didn't work
              correctly.  When i have some spare time, I'll see if I can't
              throw this in there.  or if you wanna do it, email me the changes
              \_ Were it only that I was tall enough...
        \_ Rather cluttered.  If you're looking to post something long,
           edit it in another file first, then put it in and format when
           you get your lock. Oh, and the dirty little secret.  If you
        \_ Does me still tell you who has the lock? It doesn't look like it
           from my negligible grasp of perl.
           use vi, and get a lock on the file, me will respect that lock
           for as long as you're editing.  Just don't abuse it.  --scotsman
           \_ What about emacs?
              \_ emacs doesn't lock the file.  emacs doesn't even touch the
                 actual file after it makes its temp copy.  This is why me
                 was written in the first place. --scotsman
                 \_ But when you try to save the file after typing your stuff,
                    emacs checks the timestamp and warns you if you're about to
                    overwrite someone else's changes.  So you can re-load the
                    file and add your stuff again before saving it.  (Of course
                    some jerks will tell it to go ahead and overwrite anyway.)
                    \_ Indeed.  motdedit saves people from having to make that
                       \_ I see.
        \_ Think and type faster.
        \_ vi ; diff ; cp.  The Real Motdedit For Real Motdeditors(c)
           \_ ED! ED! ED is the STANDARD!  Revision control system.
        \_ cvs checkout; commit;
           \_ pfft!  vi;diff;cp.  Death to ED!  Death to cvs!
2002/7/20-23 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:25399 Activity:moderate
7/20    What's the "approved" way to correct a typo made in an RCS log message.
        \_ ED!
        \_ from rcs(1)
                  Replace revision rev's log message with msg.
             \_ Thanks.

        \_ MS has some freebie tools for stuff like this.  Sorry I can't
           recall the name of any of it but I know they exist.  There's also
           third party stuff.  It's thankfully been a very long time since I've
           had to admin an NT machine....  -solaris dude
        \_ Dependency Walker
        \_ There's a program called handleEx that does it
        \_ Don't bother with tools just vi RCS/fname,v
           \_ That is why you fail.
              \_ When you see the ,v files for what they are, you will
                 know why the tools limit you little grasshopper
                 \_ but for those who can't figure it out, the tools
                    are like kevlar for their foot.
                 \_ And oh great one, enlighten us in the ways of the ,v file!
2002/7/4-5 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25278 Activity:moderate
7/3     What is a good free project management tool in Unix?  This is for
        personal projects, so it doesn't have to be that fancy.
        \_ emacs, jove, vi, etc.
           \_ those are editors, not project management tools.  i think he
              means cvs, maybe even rcs.  If you want something like crystal
              reports, you're out of luck.  And please don't say, "ED is an
              editor" because that is just old, trite, and oversaid.  ok thx.
2002/7/4-5 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:25277 Activity:very high
7/4     Is anyone on Soda a shareware author for living?  Is it at all
        \_ does count?
        \_ I think this guy has no day job, and probably makes a decent living:
           his software really really really kicks ass, though, and
           the price is pretty low for how great it is, so people don't
           feel as annoyed by paying.  if this software were for sale in a
           store for 100 bucks, i'd still go buy it.
        \_ There are a very rare few people in the world who have made huge
           wads of cash from shareware.  There is a slightly larger group that
           makes a living but nothing spectacular from it.  The other 98% don't
           make enough to buy a can of beans.
        \_ I don't know of anyone who does it full-time, but there are a lot
           of people out there who write one or two cool toys, and then
           get a fair amount of pocket money out of it.  Except for the fact
           that he's a really over-the-top jesus looney, the dude who wrote
           UltraEdit is a pretty good example.  -John
2002/6/26 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:25198 Activity:kinda low
6/25    cvs ci keeps telling my that I have modified a file, even though
        I haven't, and cvs diff agrees with me.  What's going on?
        \_ a very well crafted, but devious, practical joke.
           \_ the joke is called cvs, but here is a quick work around:
              1. rm the offending file
              2. cvs update the offending file
              3. cvs ci -> should work without complaints
2002/6/12-13 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:25079 Activity:high
6/11    Does anyone have experience with bitkeeper? There is a guy
        at work who thinks that it is the best version control system
        ever and wants us to use it, but I'm just not convinced that
        its orders of magnitude better than cvs and clearcase.
        \_ if you work at transmeta and the "guy at work" is finnish
           and answers the the name of a certain Peanuts character you're
           not going to convince him to use cvs.
           \_ he's a fucking idiot.  the code base is a mess.
              \_ he's done more with his life than you have with yours.
                 \_ oh really?  so he's written some code, annoyed lots of
                    decent hard working people and has a job at a dotcom that's
              sun standard or something else.
                    totally fucked.  yes?  and?  go suck his dick if you think
                    he's some sort of god.  linux weenies... get over it.
           \_ I work at sun. We are using cvs for our project, but there
              are problems and we are looking at switching either to the
              sun standard or something else. - op
        \_ Forget all others. Use Perforce.
           \_ Perforce doesn't support some of the platforms we use
              and the source isn't available so its not an option
              for us. - op
                \_ what platforms?
                   \_ bsd/linux on sparc, and a few others I can't
                      talk about. We tried running it under solaris/linux
                      emulation, but ran into some problems.
                        \_ If your company is using bsd or linux on sparcs
                           they are retarded, if both then fucking retarded.
              \_ You're seriously be editing the source to your vcs?  No way.
              \_ You'll seriously be editing the source to your vcs?  No way.
                 \_ Since the source isn't available we can't build it
                    for our unsupported platforms.
                    \_ I see.  I misread.  My error.
2002/5/15-17 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:24842 Activity:moderate
5/15    In ClearCase 4.2, I want to create a new element bar.c based on the
        latest version of foo.c.  Is there any ClearCase command for this
        other than "mkelem" such that it'll remember that version 1 of bar.c
        comes from the latest foo.c?  Thanks. -- yuen
        \_ There used to be a "clone" feature in the UI. I don't know what
           the cli equiv. is.
2002/5/13-14 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:24805 Activity:low
5/13    I started using cvs and imported some existing file.  On checking out
        again I found that all the modification time has been altered.  How do
        I ask cvs to keep the modification time for checking out?  (I thought
        this is what it should do). --- cvs newbie
        \_ Formatting fixed. - motd formatting daemon
        \_ Apparently you're also an English language newbie.  Try asking
           your question again using correct grammar that the rest of us
           can parse.
           \_ Yoda like I am grammar English I use.
              \_ You know, that stupid movie was worth it to see the part
                 when yoda busts out a light sabre and goes aggro. Matrix
                 \_ what I don't understand is why yoda uses a light sabre
                    when *EVERYONE* knows that force lightning is so much
                    more effective.
                    \_ what?  yoda don't play that shit.  lightening's for
                       punk ass bitches.  yoda's old school, man..
                    \_ i thought lightning was a dark side attack.
                       \_ No, everyone can use force lightning. In fact
                          in JK Multiplayer its all anyone ever uses.
        \_ Feel the love of CVS.  Timestamps are just the beginning of your
           problems...  (CVS assigns the timestamp at the time of import,
           and punts the existing time of your file.)  Future revisions of
           your files will get updated times.
2002/5/6 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:24727 Activity:nil
5/6     Anyone using subversion as a CVS replacement yet? If so, how stable
        is it?
        \_ Yeah I'll have an easy time selling a program named 'subversion' to
           management.  Geeks are so fucking stupid in some ways.
2002/1/28 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/HW] UID:23690 Activity:high
        \_ Thank you danh!
           \_ Who says danh posted this?  -!danh
              \_ Hi reiffin. Haven't you heard? The MOTD gets logged; it
                 hasn't been really anonymous for many years.
                 \_ Aside from RCS log (which doesn't log the user) how
                    is the motd logged?
                 \_ Yes I know it's logged and not really anonymous.  And you
                    feel really smart posting about this?  Yes, you 'caught'
                    me posting a joke URL.  What's your point?
        \_ Did someone fix the flat tires on the car afterwards?
2001/10/11-14 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22692 Activity:high
10/11   Shopping for bug tracking solutions.  Recommendations?
        Some of them add to SourceForge.  I don't have SourceForge.
        Would installing SourceForge for these be worth it?
        There's also this one:
        And of course there's Bugzilla
        \_ SourceForge can't be "installed"... It's a months-long project.
           Not worth it just for the bug tracking system. -mogul
        \_ ClearDDTS
        \_ I think bugzilla is kludgy (ugh, perl) and Sourceforge's look
           and feel are a bit dull. GNATS is good yet obtuse; Jitterbug
           is where it's at for my money. This is all open source -- commercial
           tools are aplenty (and good too)
           \_ Why does the language bugzilla is coded in make it kludgy?  If
              it was written in _your pet lanuage here_ but functioned exactly
              the same would you say it was great?
                        you're going to adopt an OSS tool in your org. Try
                        that + maintenance (which script was that again?) and
                        you'll see what I mean..
                \_ Because of customization which is eventually required if
                   you're going to adopt an OSS tool in your org. Try that +
                   maintenance (which script was that again?) and you'll see
                   what I mean..
                   [ reformatted ]
                   \_ And closed source tools don't require customization?
                      Oh yeah... you can't customize closed source.  Ya see,
                      bugzilla and similar open tools *allow* you to change
                      the code but don't *require* it as opposed to closed
                      source which doesn't have the option.  So, what I get
                      from your message is that closed source is better because
                      it can't be customized.
        \_ There's also TeamTrack by TeamShare, Inc. (
           I only used a small number of features in it so I don't know how
           good it is compared to the others.  --- yuen
           \_ GNATS sucks.  Use TeamShare.
              \_ We switched from gnats to bugzilla. It's great for what
                 it is - quick and dirty. It's not terribly secure,
                 though. Still, we like it. Who cares if it is perl? --dim
                \_ i stuck it under apache access control and https,
                   how much more secure do you want to be?
                   \_ I didn't say it cannot be secured, but out of the box
                      it is not close to secure. You have to do a lot more
                      than restrict access to secure it (and mySQL) because
                      a person with access can do damage, nevermind how they
                      got the access. Access control is just a start. --dim
                        \_ was there a bugzilla/perforce integration module
                           somewhere on the net?
2001/10/8-9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22661 Activity:very high
10/7    Anyone here using perforce? How does it compare to cvs?
        \_ It isn't free.  It requires a "bigger" machine to host it.
           It does "more stuff".  It runs on windows and unix.
           \_ I would dispute "bigger". The main advantages of Perforce
             over CVS are 1) real branching and integration 2) speed (try CVS
             with lots of files over different connections) 3) atomic commits
             of changes (aka changelists)
              over CVS are 1) real branching and integration 2) speed
              (try CVS with lots of files over different connections)
              3) atomic commits of changes (aka changelists)
              \_ Yeah.  A client can choose to turn on Perforce's own
                 compression which compresses better than PPP+modem
                 compressions, hence higher speed over modem.  --- yuen
        \_ The changelist feature in Perforce is very useful.  I've never used
           \_ cvs runs on windows and unix (windows w/ cygwin or wincvs) and
              mac (maccvs)
              \_ perforce runs on a zillion platforms with a much better GUI
                 and a Web client for platforms without native UI
                 \_ "It runs on windows and unix" is true for both CVS and
                     Perforce. "Better GUI" would have made more sense...
              \_ We ran Perforce server on SunOS4 and later on Solaris, and
                 clients on both SunOS and NT.  --- yuen
           \_ It has some nicer ways to deal with rename/branch/merge
              files --oj
        \_ The changelist feature in Perforce is very useful.  Now I use
           ClearCase at a new job and I miss that feature.  I've never used
           cvs.  --- yuen
        \_ Noticed some bugs in getting latest.  For some reason 't's at the
           end of lines were being deleted (or something to this nature).
           Ended up switching to cvs.
           \_ This is not true. Email perforce support if you want to
              check for yourself.
              \_ It was true and have emailed support about this.  Our
                 company couldn't take the chance for another bug to pop up
                 like that.
                \_ Fair enough, what's the bug number?
                 \_ Do you have some censoring software on your firewall or
                    something like that which filters out words that match
                    a list of obscene words?
                    \_ This was all done on a LAN not thru a firewall.  I want
                       to add that besides this bug, I liked the product.
        \_ We switched from cvs to perforce. Branching and merging were major
           reasons why. We do not regret the decision, even though it cost
           a little bit of money. --dim
2001/10/6-7 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22654 Activity:high
10/05   I am have several accounts each with useful files and I often
        travel.  I am looking for some software that create a virtual file
        system transparently and securely distributed over several locations
        that allow me to access them no matter where I am as if it is some
        file on whatever account/computer I am using.  I have seen some
        "meta-frame" program for Win2000 on my friend's PC but it must be very
        expensive, for large companies and perhaps only works for win2000.
        Please recommend a low budget or free solution, either *nix or
        preferabbly multi-platform.  Ok tnx.
        \_ You may try a file synchronizer, like /usr/ports/net/unison.
           It works on unixen and windows (and is written in Ocaml to boot!)
           -- ilyas
        \_ I assume that you will have net wherever you are...have you
           considered just scp'ing/running rdist via ssh?  That's kludge-y
           but assuming your boxes are on the net, it'll work.  Otherwise,
           if you run the machines, you can run an ipsec vpn between them
           and (ugh) nfs mount between machines.  Both of those would
           be free.  -John
        \_ It sounds like cvs would be a good solution.  With cvs, you
           set up a repository somewhere on your home machine and then
           you can check out/check in files from wherever you are via
           ssh.  Basically you set CVS_RSH to ssh and you set CVSROOT
           to something like  Then
           use cvs checkout, cvs add, cvs update, cvs commit, etc.  See
           the cvs info file for details.  I've been using this method
           to work on files from home, school, and my laptop.  -emin
        \_ Thanks for all the answers.  It seems that VNC tunnled through
           ssh plus AFS are what I need, if I have the foo to manage it.
           By the way, can AFS traffic be encrypted, say over ssh?
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22231 Activity:kinda low
8/23    My company is thinking of switching over from MS SourceSafe to
        cvs. Primary reason is price. Any good cvs introductory resources
        out there? Thanks in advance.
        \_ is a good place to start.
        \_ Lots of docs and stuff at
2001/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:22151 Activity:high
8/17    Is a motd history stored somewhere (i.e. past 3 days)?
        \_ *sighhhhh*  Yes.
           \_ Where?  If it's so painfully obvious it should be posted
              somewhere (ie. README)
              \_ It's not obvious.  Someone seems to ask this question
                 at least once a week, like fucking clockwork.
              \_ what readme?  at any rate, maybe it should be added to
                 \_ Then people will start asking if there's a FAQ and
                    where it is.
                    \_ a copy of the FAQ is created in the home directory of
                       new users. (why isn't it a link?)
        \_ I have a script that makes an RCS update of the motd whenever it
           notices the motd change.  My RCS archives of the motd date back
           about 2 years.  Its in ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v.  You'll have to
           learn a little about rcs to figure out how to read it.  -ERic
2001/8/15-16 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22125 Activity:high
8/15    Is there a cvs equivalent to the clearcase predecessor diff?
        I can do a cvs status, subtract 1 from the minor version and
        then do a cvs diff -r<version> but I'm looking for something
        \_ How exactly is that not built in?
        \_ If you want to diff your _working_ version to the latest checked
           in version, you can just say "cvs diff filename" (no revisions)
           Don't know if that helps...  --dbushong
           \_ I'm looking for something that tells me the difference
              between the latest version in cvs and its immediate
              predecessor. If someone else works on my code and commits
              say 1.3, while my last version was 1.2, I want to see the
              difference between these two versions. In clearcase you
              can just say ct diff -pred <file>.
              \_ Wouldn't it make MORE sense to branch this code so
                 that YOU knew what the prior version was?  --sowings
                 \_ In my situation branching isn't appropriate. I'm
                    sometimes stuck in a position where the latest rev
                    of a file breaks a particular feature, so I want
                    to know what all changed between the two revs so
                    its quicker for me to figure out where the problem
                    is and fix it. Its not a big deal, I went ahead
                    and wrote a little perl script that does my diffs
                    for me.
                    \_ This is why you set a commit policy. cvs doesn't
                       negate the need for communication.
                       \_ Can you set a commit policy on a particular
                    \_ No, [32mreallï[0m  --dbushong
                    \_ No, [32mreallM-o[0m  --dbushong
                          file/dir? I though it was per module only.
        \_ what we do is create a cvs wrapper program that adds extra
           features like that, and file locking. ours is just a perl script.
           \_ I asked around at work and it looks like I'm going to have
              do the same. I guess I'm just too used to a professional
              revision control system.
              \_ I mean that's definitely useful, but it's not under the
                 heading of a killer integral feature..  If you can easily
                 hack something that does it for you with a perl script
                 in 2 minutes, it's not overly important.  I tend to do my
                 diffs with cvsweb anyway; the colored thingy makes it much
                 easier to see at a glance what changed (and I'm not the type
                 that usually likes pretty colored things)  --dbushong
                 \_ Sure you aren't...
                    \_ No, [1;32mreally[0m  --dbushong
                 \_ I personally like the graphical version browser in cc.
                    Its much easier to use than that crufty cvsweb thing.
                    Its all the little things that I have to tack on to
                    cvs to make it more professional a la cc that annoy me.
               \_ there's always xdiff, if you can dig it up.
                  \_ I normally use diff -s (side by side, which doesn't
                     require X11 running)
                     \_ However, it requires GNU diff. And the flag conflicts
                        with standard diff.
                        \_ Doesn't solaris ship with sdiff (same as diff -s)?
2001/8/13-14 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22097 Activity:nil
8/13    In Clearcase, how do I find all the views created by a particular user?
        \_ ct lsview | grep hozer   only works on a particular server.
           Repeat as necessary.
           \_ But that works only if either the view name or the view server
              access path contains the login name of the user as a substring.
2001/7/19 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:21861 Activity:moderate
7/19    Okay I was stupid, I accidentally did a "cvs rm; cvs commit" and now
        the file only exists in $CVSROOT/.../Attic/OldFile.c,v. How do I
        read it or recover it? I already rtfm. Thanks.
        \_ cvs update -r<INSERT_PREVIOUS_VERSION_NUMBER_HERE> <filename>
           cp filename foo
           cvs update -A <filename> -- file goes poof
           cp foo <filename>
           cvs add <filename>
           cvs ci <filename>
2001/7/18-19 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:21848 Activity:nil
7/18    I'm new to ClearCase.  In Perforce there's something called a
        changelist which carries a description and which guarantees that
        submitting a group of files is atomic.  Is there something similar to
        this in ClearCase?  Thanks.  -- yuen
2001/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Startup] UID:21595 Activity:nil
6/21    I've just found a version of emacs vc that supports ClearCase:, but it's dated 1996.  Does anyone know
        of a newer version?  Thx.  -- yuen
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/Theory] UID:21018 Activity:moderate
4/17    Lookin' for something that can generate a dependency graph for
        C's #include and Makefile's include. Thanks!
        \_ Check out AST on freshmeat or sourceforge.  It's out of AT&T
           \_ is also good.
        \_ make depend?
2001/3/9-12 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:20730 Activity:nil
3/8     CVS 'co' preserves the modification time stamp. However, 'update'
        does not. How do I make update preserve the modification time stamp?
        \_ Use the source, Luke.  That's what the whole open source movement
           is about.  Then you can contribute back to the community so we can
           all enjoy the benefits of your labor for free.  As in beer.
2001/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:20729 Activity:nil
3/9     why mehlhaff's motd,v not updating?
        \_ rcs idiocy.
        \_ Ask mehlhaff this shit.  It isn't a public service provided by
           root.  Duh.  Obviously it's mehlhaff's archives so fucking ask
           him.  Why do you dumbshits insist on asking about Eric's stuff
           on the motd everytime rcs chokes?  ASK MEHLHAFF TO FIX IT!  AUUUGHH!
           I've been dragged into Stupidville!  The natives are restless!
           \_ mehlhaff is dead.  -deleter
2001/2/14-15 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:20599 Activity:low
2/14    In cvs, how do you check out and preserve the original time stamp
        instead of the default current time.
        \_ man cvs
2001/2/7-9 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:20531 Activity:high
2/7     Any recommendations for Windoze NT/2000 backup software,
        where each user keeps their files on local disk?
        \_ Windoze is not recommended.
        \_ Yech.... Legato I guess but why would you let users keep local
           files?  Your issue isn't backup software.  It's the way you run
           your system.
           \_ What strategory would you suggest?
           \_ What strategory would you suggest?  Obviously I can force
              everyone to compile files on a shared file system, but
              this would make our programmers feel corporate and they
              wouldn't like that.
                \_ They can compile anything on anything they like but I
                   suggest either: store source on remote disk and set up
                   compiler to write all objects, etc, locally or much better
                   would be to use a revision control system like perforce
                   or others that have been discussed previously on the motd
                   and just backup the perforce server.  Anyone stupid enough
                   to never checkin their code deserves to get fucked.
                   \_ Wrong.  source control systems are meant to store
                      revisions, not to be used as primary backup systems.
                        \_ Duh, I didn't say it was a backup system.  I said
                           you're backing up your revision control system
                           instead of dozens, hundreds, or however many desk
                           tops.  Try reading before posting.  Thank you for
                           playing "sysadmin for a day".  Come back next year.
                           I wouldn't want to be the guy to answer to the VP
                           of Engineering when he asks why half his code base
                           went poof and you can't restore it.  "It's a
                           revision control system, not a backup system, so I
                           didn't back it up".  That makes no sense.
                           \_ Read my post again, hacker.  I said they should
                              not be the PRIMARY backup.  They are secondary
                              to having a PRIMARY backup of people's local
                              files.  What you suggest is the easy way out.
                                \_ What I suggest makes it more likely the
                                   files will get backed up even when people
                                   turn off their machines at night.
2000/8/30-2001/4/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:19125 Activity:moderate
12/20   5348816 Aug 28 17:53 /home/digital/mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v
        Why has our motd archiver forsaken us?
        \_ rcs has failed me. IT dumped a ,motd, file that was tricking
           rcs into thinking the motd file was in use, and the  auto
           archiver didn't like it. -ERic

        \_ Like this?
        \_ get with the present.
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18944 Activity:nil
8/9     Yay I get to use my gnu RCS motd,v $k1llZ!!
2000/8/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18942 Activity:kinda low
8/9     I know this has been asked before and i know y'all are reluctant
        to answer this kind of question with anything other than RTFM
        and usually an answer like "man [cmd]" IS helpful but i'm afraid i'm too
        much of an idiot to get it on this one SO...
        Would somebody PLEASE post an EXAMPLE of a cvs or rcs command to read
        mehlhaff's motd,v from some past day.
        \_ vi motd,v.
           \_ non-formatted non-useful comment deleted.
        \_ Where's the motd,v file?  Thx.
           \_ ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v
        \_ co -d"2000/08/09 11:23:45" ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v  -- yuen
         \_ someone kick this guy off the motd. he actually posted
            something useful.
            \_ You're hereby kicked off the motd. Stay away. Or else.
        \_ Read ~marco/bin/motdbrowse, I usually use motdbrowse -c
2000/7/14-17 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18681 Activity:high
7/14    I believe there was a thread about this a couple months ago, but...
        Does anyone have recommendations / pitfall descriptions of the
        commercial source control repositories out there.  Clear Case rocks,
        but its expensive for a 10 developer shop.  It should probably have
        support for the BSDs as well as Solaris and Linux.  Has anynoe used
        perforce?  -joshk
        \_ RCS/CVS isn't enough? -sodan with no clue
           \_ One advantage of perforce over RCS is the "change list" facility.
              Changes in several files can be submitted together in one change
              list.  This lets you later trace back easily which change in
              which file goes with which changes in which other files.  Also,
              change list submission are atomic.  Either all or none of the
              files are submitted.  Say if something goes wrong in the middle
              of submitting 30 files (e.g. merge conflict, network goes down),
              all of the files will remain unchanged on the server.  -- yuen
           \_ If you're considering CVS because it's free, look into PRCS also
                It keeps track of the project versions rather than the
                versions of the source files.
        \_ My company uses perforce and the engineers love it.  -not engineer
        \_ My company uses Perforce too.  So far so good.  -- yuen
        \_ My old company uses perforce. I've just gotten my current company
           up on perforce. (Even the marketing people are using it for change
           control on marketing docs!) So far so good here as well. -- Marco
        \_ my turn to chime in and vote for perforce.  -aspo
        \_ I've gotten two of my past projects/clients to go with Perforce
           I've even convinced Mac engineers to use its command-line interface
        \_ What? All you guys above work for perforce or something??
                \_ Maybe it's just good?  It happens sometimes.
        \_ We switched from cvs to perforce where I work.  I don't see any
           advantages of perforce.  The change list feature isn't that big
           a deal since you have to check OUT the set of files in a batch
           to check them back in as a batch.  I agree someone ought to
           add something like it to cvs but it's not that big a deal.
           Cvs isn't great, perforce isn't worse, but it doesn't seem
           better either and it costs a lot.  Sourceforge (
           looks interesting but I haven't tried it and it may only be
           good for distributed projects.  --phr
                \_ Perforce costs nothing if compared to ClearCase and some of
                   other tools (Continuum, PVCS). The changelist ("batch") only
                   applies to check-ins -- check outs operate on sets of files
                   where the set population is 1..N. Where Perforce clearly
                   outguns CVS is branching and merging, not to mention labels.
                   Try syncing to a label in CVS and see how long it takes.
           \_ You don't like perforce?  This must be a troll.  :-)
2000/6/15-16 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18479 Activity:high
6/15    How can I force a RCS check-in. With "ci -u" I get
        ci: RCS file RCS foo is in use
        \_ You have to delete the special lock file (after you've made sure
           that no one really is using it).  It will be a recent , file
           with zero size. Presumably, it got left over from a previously
           failed rcs operation. -cliffwd
                \_ Thanks!
2000/5/9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18209 Activity:high
5/8     please post the syntax to use csv to read the motd,v version x or
        date 04/22/00.
        \_ sure, all you need is `man cvs`
        \_ man rcs
2000/3/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17683 Activity:insanely high
3/2     so, do you think i could get off on the grounds of justifiable
        homicide if i were to murder my project partners?  they'd be more
        useful as corpses.
        \_ you have no idea what bad project partners are.  i've had
           partners that were so flat out lazy they didn't touch a single
           line of code the entire semester, partners that dropped the class
           without telling, partners that switched groups without telling,
           and partners that were so stupid that it makes you wonder how
           they ever got into this school.  and then there was my 152 partner
           who was just about the worst partner ever.  be happy that you
           have bad partners, not sadistic shity ones.  -jeff
                \_ haven't a couple of people have had project partners who
                        were in jail?
        \_ poor thing.  So what did they do?
        \_ Easily.  Just call Paolo as a character witness. -dans
                \_ paolo would be more useful as a corpse.
                   \_ Hey, that's mean!
                      \_ CSUA, we're petty and vindictive so you don't have to
                         be.  But seriously, ask Paolo about the PhilipBox or
                         the Walrus some time.  Two of the more heinous
                         partners in the history of CS. -dans
        \_ you are not allowed to complain until you have randi as a
           partner.  Or that stupid bitch who deleted all of our 162
           mutlprocessing project 2 days before it was due.
                \_ When I was a lab assistant for 60A this chick goes into a
                   panic and is so desperate she insists on dragging me away
                   from my netrek game.  She's typed "rm * .bak" in their
                                         \_ She typed
                   shared project directory.  She's lucky that A) I don't kill
                                                                  \_ I didn't
                   her, B) her partner isn't around to see this, C) she had
                   every single file loaded in emacs, D) I was kind enough to
                   save them out for her and E) not kill her for screwing up
                   \_ save them for her         \_ that I didn't kill her
                   a perfectly good base ogg.  She asks me to walk her home
                                        \_ what the hell is a "base ogg"
                                           \_ learn to speak english.
                   then panics at the door.  Never help a Sterny.
                   \_ How good she speak English?
                        \_ Korean but not ESL.
                           \_ I think (s)he was making fun of your English.
                                \_ s/he needs to try again.  Compared to most
                                   of the crap on the motd, my English was
                                   perfect.  Don't even get me started on this
                                   as "Standard American English" is only an
                                   ideal in both written and spoken forms.
                                        -linguistics alumni
                                \_ I'm using the present tense so that stuff
                                   is bullshit.  If you don't know what a base
                                   ogg is, maybe one of the other 50+ netrek
                                   players can help you.  Still waiting to see
                                   a real problem with what I wrote.
                                   \_ Well, you seem to be mixing tenses
                                      and "she's typed" isn't proper English.
                                      \_ Yes it is.  It is a contraction of "She
                                         has typed" and is perfectly fine in the
                                         present tense.  It is very common in
             \_ at least she just didn't do squat, instead of destroying
                your project.  And nick, I seem to remember she sorta
                joined our group after the second project or so.  (I say
                sorta cause noone wanted her around but the idiot who nuked
                our directory that one time, but hey, she kept on comming
                to our group meetings).
                                         informal narratives to revert to
                                         present tense.  Annoying, but common
                                         \_ Sorry for being annoying but it's

                                            still acceptable/common.
                           \_ Korean?  Was it sky's gf?
                   \_ You helped her?  That's just wrong.  Idiots should pay
                      the idiot penalty carried by their actions until such
                      time that they learn something, thus ceasing to be an
                      idiot, or they make a mistake so horrible that they die
                      from it.  Either way, one less idiot. -dans
                        \_ Of course.  She was better looking than the girl I
                           was with at the time.  Virginal, though.  Hate that.
                           \_ How long have pretty girls been taking
                              advantage of your idiocy?
                                \_ Nah, I was there.  She turned pale and
                                   panicked at the key moment.  She was too
                                   naive to know what she was doing.  I've
                                   been an idiot before but this wasn't it.
                           \_ Your quest to decrease the number of virgins in
                              the world is a noble one.  Nevertheless, since
                              you failed in this particular instance, I think
                              you should have sided with my quest to rid the
                              world of idiots. -dans
                                \_ Hey, I had to try.  How else to know?  I
                                   didn't help her after that if it makes you
                                   feel any better.
          \_ randi was my partner in 162.  I think this tops anything anyone
             could possibly complain about.
                \_ Hi andrew
                   \_ Hi nick
          \_ Some of the blame rests on classes which _require_ you to work in
             a group, creating artificial demand for the stupid as project
          \_ OK, I will toss in Donald Horton, who didn't nothing but write
             C++ .h files defining how his beautiful, elegant, and totally
             worthless classes would interface, then when asked to write
             one trivial piece of code, decided he didn't need to cvs update
             first, and when it complained about conflicts putting his 10
             lines of code into the multi-thousand-line file, he just
             nazi's his copy (without the weeks worth of changes) over the
             top of it and checks it in.  Needless to say, his account went
                \_ CVS?  In the old days we could only dream of having a stupid
                   partner munch our files with CVS....
2000/2/11-12 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17492 Activity:nil
2/11    Why isn't mehlhaff's motd logger running any more?!?!?
        \_ Why are you asking this on the motd instead of asking mehlhaff in
           email?  Go away.
           \_ every once in a while RCS messes up and hangs wanting user
              input.  Sometimes even RCS is lame...  -ERic
2000/2/5-8 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17431 Activity:high
2/4     Another CVS question, how do I do reservered checkouts (like ClearCase)
        on a file. I want to mark a file as in use so that no one else can
        edit it, thus avoiding the stupid merges.
        \_ that defeats the purpose of CVS. You can use RCS.
                \_ CVS/RCS/SCCS, etc are for idiots.  Just code it right the
                   first time.  RCS type systems encourage bad programming.
                        \_ Ha ha ha.  That was funny.
                           \_ No.  As trolls go, it's barely at "newbie sodan"
                                \_ Good enough to get you two to reply plus me
                                   makes three.
                                   \_ There's always room in the motd for
                                      "you fucking suck" entries.
                                   \_ four!
                                        \_ Me too!  Five!
           \_ No it doesn't.  It just means for a while only one person can edit
              a single file.  It doesn't mean that one person only can edit
              *all* of the files in the tree for the entire length of the
                \_ CVS is weak.  Real hackers don't need it.
                   \_ I don't feel one way or the other about CVS, but the
                      stupid fools at work keep stepping on each other toes,
                      and I would just like to avoid that.
        \_ this seems like a sensible thing to ask for, but it implies really
           weird things. If homeslice already has a working copy of the files
           and homeboy locks a file, your request would imply that cvs
           would have to go into the checked out working directory of homeslice
           and change, for example, make his checked out file read-only.
           Anyways, what you're asking for is not very useful. There's a lot
           more hassle involved in dealing with some asshole locking a file
           overnight than there is with merging. Merging works. Use it.
           Don't be lame. -ali.
           \_ Actually, I hate merging. I have wasted hours merging code and
              fixing mistakes of other fools. If I could lock a file with a
              reserved checkout like in ClearCase then I wouldn't have to waste
                \_ Exactly.  Merging, CVS, etc, is bullshit.  Real programmers
                   don't need that.  Real programmers dont work with idiots
                   either.  The best code I've ever seen was written by one
                   man with a vision, not a pooled team of jerkoffs in cubes.
                   \_ What's good enough for the people who bring you
                      FreeBSD is good enough for you, buddy.
                        \_ Fuck freebsd!  Microsoft doesn't use CVS and they
                           built the largest, easiest to use, fastest, most
                           secure, easiest to administer, and stable OS ever
                           made and they didn't need CVS.
                           \_ six!
        \_ ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD! 80 column formatting tool.
              time merging. I'm beginning to apperciate ClearCase for its
              versioned directories (and symlinks) and the reserved checkouts.
        \_ CVS now supports this with "cvs edit" and "cvs watch", but you
           have to compile specially or set something in CVSROOT.
           Proper management avoids conflicts. Should two people really
           be working on the same piece of code at once. Conflicts due
           to whitespace are really annoying, though.
           \_ Don't be dense.  File locking is a useful feature (which is
              surely why it was added).  "management" is a heaviweight
        \_ try cvs admin -lock or something like that
threadkiller was here.
2000/2/3-5 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17423 Activity:moderate
2/3     How do I remove or rename a directory under CVS?
        \_ rm -rf or mv
                \_ doesn't work, cvs root still has the directory
                        \_ Depends on what you rm.
        \_ See the CVS FAQ. It looks like renaming isn't really clean.
        \_ cvs remove dir; then cvs -P update will prune off dir.
             (lesson: always use cvs -Pd, except when you shouldn't)
2000/1/22 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17292 Activity:nil
1/21    Somebody probably thought of this before.  Any reason why we don't
        have a 'vimotd'?  Make /etc/motd.public writable only by executing
        vimotd.  That way we won't get into this problem of several people
        fucking up each other's entries.
        \_ Then I can just run vimotd and lock anyone else out of changing
            the motd!
           \_ he didn't mention anything about locking.
                \_ Then how do you prevent others from changing the motd
                   at the same time?
        \_ VI here is implmeented as VIM.  Vim will tell you if the file has
           changed while you've been editing it.  This happens to me routinely
           (even while writing this!).  I yank the text that I added, re-edit
           the file, and paste the text back in.  Seems like we need a picomotd
           or emacsmotd. --emarkp
        \_ cvs checkout, modify, cvs commit (may need to do cvs update). --rich
2000/1/11-13 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17210 Activity:very high
1/10    How do you keep more than one person from having a file open at
        the same time?  (separate but related question...) What is the
        easiest way to do version control on a unix box?
        \_ CVS.
        \_ Single-user: RCS/SCCS, Multi-user: CVS
           \_ RCS and/or SCCS dont "break" if you have multiple users.
              It just gets very inconvenient if you expect more than one person
              to be working on a particular at the same time.
              to be working on a particular file at the same time.
        \_ If you want to be hard core: cp, diff and compress.
        \_ ClearCase
           \_ I use ClearCase at work.  It's a broken piece of shit.
              (Though the UI is pretty nice, I have to admit).  -- ilyas
              \_ It's the GUI that is the broken piece of shit. All the
                 command-line utils are completely functional.
                   -- spent several months writing tools that interface with
                      it, never had any problems.
                  \_ It also costs a gazillion dollars or something. -- ilyas
                        \_ BFD.  I have a gazillion dollars in my pocket.
                           \_ Then what are you doing choosing a version control
                              tool!?  Go on permanent vacation.
                                \_ Because a gazillion dollars won't buy you a
                                   cup of coffee.  Anyway, I'm using RCS which
                                   works just fine for my needs.
                                  \_ what fucking country are YOU in, asshole?
                                        \_ The United States of America.  Last
                                           I checked, we didn't have 'gazillion'
                                           as a currency unit.
                                           \_ The U.S. also doesn't have a
                                              million as a currency unit, if
                                              you want to start splitting hairs.
                                              \_ A million is a word that is
                                                 symbolic of 1000000 units of
                                                 something.  A gazillion could
                                                 fit in my pocket and won't buy
                                                 you a cup of coffee and no I
                                                 don't feel like splitting hairs.
                        \_ There's no such thing as a gazillion dollars!
        \_ Perforce is pretty good too.
        \_ lock the file with an exclusive lock.  see flock(2)
1999/12/8-9 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17024 Activity:high
12/8    Anyway to figure out who the last person was to modify a file?
        (ie /etc/motd.public)
        \_ man mconst
           \_ Sorry, but there is no such man page.  Where can I find out?
                \_ you have your MANPATH set incorrectly, mconst is
                   documented in /csua/man
        \_ Not unless you have C2-level auditing turned on, or force people
           to use RCS/SCCS.
        \_ Wah wah wah.  It's just the motd.  Give it up.  It isn't important.
           If anyone cared, we'd be using RCS and then idiots would be checking
           in copies over copies, not unlocking it, etc, etc.  Take a deep
           breath and count down slowly from 10 while exhaling and repeat to
           yourself, "It's just the motd".
           \_ You'll need to take a very deep breath to that
                \_ He needs a very deep breath.  Any non-smoker can do it.
1999/12/3-5 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17001 Activity:very high
12/3    Does anyone really like their build management, source code control
        software they use for their company/project?
        \_ I like Perforce.  No build management;
           it's just source control.  You might also check out BitKeeper. --pld
        \_ I used CVS for source code control when I was working.  Now
           that I'm in grad chool I still use it.  CVS is simple, stable,
           powerful, easy to use, and the source is available.  I
           especially like the features which allow people on different
           machines to share projects over the internet.  -emin
        \_ MS Source Safe.  Fully compatible.
           \_ MS VSS is a load of crap even by Microsoft standards.  The only
              reason to use it is that you don't know any better.
              \_ We ditched CVS for MS Source Safe because CVS is a load
                 of crap. Source Safe is much much better.
                 \_ We ditched MS Source Safe for Perforce because SS is a
                    load of crap (it was into things like losing files and
                    corrupting change history databases).  Perforce is much
                    much better, nyeah.
                    \_ user error.
                       \_ Uh, no.  The "we" was a corporate we -- the loss and
                          corruption happened over a number of SS installations
                          within my company.  Each SS install had its own
                          dedicated machine and admin (they were supporting
                          developers on multi-hundred-million-dollar products;
                          we didn't just hire up some dope-smokin' dropout
                          from the mailroom and start up source control on a
                          spare P-66).  SS sucks rocks.  The only user error
                          was getting it in the first place.  The groups that
                          were using Perforce or ClearCase from the start had
                          none of these problems.
                          \_ Don't believe it.  Sorry, but I think you're full
                             of crap.  SS is the best.  The idea that you had
                             20+ machines and 20+ admins to go with them makes
                             the rest of your story ring false.  No one does
                             that.  No one with any talent would take a SS
                             admin of *one* machine as a full time job.
                             \_ Hello, have you ever heard of someone doing CM?
                                Large companies often have at LEAST one CM
                                person per project.
                                \_ And reading the followup below, we can see
                                   that I was correct and you're a clueless
                                   fuck.  Thank you for playing, come again
                                   soon.  Box of Rice A Roni on the way out.
                                   \_ Why not just admit you have no idea what
                                      a CM person does?   CM's are relengs
                                      you dumbass.
                                      \_ Uh because I do?  Gee, I'm sure what
                                         you know from your one employer is
                                         the only way it could be everywhere.
                                         \_ Someone says that they had an admin

        \_ Yes.
                                            doing CM stuff per project.  Your
                                            response was that is obviously
                                            false.  WELL GUESS WHAT!  MOST BIG
                                            COMPANIES HAVE AT LEAST 1 CM i
                                            PER PROJECT.
                                            \_ Heard you without the yelling.
                                               You're still wrong no matter
                                               how many CAPS you use.  And
                                               even if you were right (you're
                                               not), a BIG COMPANY doing a
                                               thing doesn't make that a smart
                                               thing.  And there aren't that
                                               many talented people around
                                               willing to sit on their asses
                                               all day doing CM.  It's a dope
                                               smoker job.
                                               \_ I never said it was smart.
                                                  Just that it is.  And it is
                                                  (true that is)
                                                  \_ Yeah whatever. yawn.
                             \_ Sorry, I was being inaccurate; these people
                                were releng types, so they had duties beyond
                                purely being SS admins.  But my point was that
                                the problem was chronic to SS installs across
                                the company, not a case of SS being screwed up
                                by one bonehead.  But whatever; use what you're
                                happy with.  Hope you keep backups.  Don't be
                                surprised when SS fucks you over, should your
                                projects ever grow beyond the two-guys-in-a-
                                garage point to something serious and large-
                                \_ They're serious, they're big, they're not
                                   \_ How big (how many files/lines of code/
                                      size in KB/MB of files under source
                                      control)?  How many developers do you
                                      have contributing to your projects?
                                        \_ multi-hundred-million-dollar
                                           projects.  And you?  Some time in
                                           the XCF if you're lucky?
        \_ What about Clearcase; Continuus (Remedy?); SCCS; RCS
           \_ Clearcase is expensive and has excessive hardware requirements.
              If you don't know why RCS won't cut it, you shouldn't be making
              the decision.
              \_ Clearcase is from Rational (rational bought PureAtria recently
                 I think).  When I first started using it, I hated it.  Now I
                 think it's wonderful.  The GUI portion is pretty weak on the
                 Unix side, but is fabulous on NT.
           \_ Clearcase ROCKS!!!!
        \_ I like ENVY from OTI. It is a fantastic version control tool and
           source code repository. It's basically an object database that
           stores every version of every method, class, package, application
           you create.  It, because of integration with the tools vendors,
           it is totally transparent (never need to manually checkin/out).
           Plus, it has a nice suite of tools for doing diffs/merging forks
           of methods/classes/packages/applications.  Works for Smalltalk
           and Java.
           \_ yeah yeah that's nice, whatever, I use RCS.
        \_ use PRCS.-ali
        \_ Yes.  And No.
        \_ And sometimes maybe.
1999/10/27 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:16775 Activity:kinda low
10/26   Whoever wrote Clearcase was a piece of dumb shit. The thing is
        so damn not scalable and is the source of our problem 75% of the
        time. PureAtria should be shot dead.
        \_ No.  The people at your place who chose it are to blame.
1999/7/29 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:16195 Activity:high
7/29    Hey, the motd RCS archive is not working!  Did I miss any big
        flame wars?
        \_ someone published to ultimate guide to sex.  sorry you missed it.
          \_ maybe someone will be kind enough to repost.
             \_ oh man, I tried it on my girlfriend last night and boy did
                she love it.  Something that great will never be posted
             \_ well, it was quite long (think the "bible" from American
                Pie), so it prolly wouldn't be a good idea to repost.
        \_ Whoops, I forgot to restart it on the last soda reboot. -ERic
                \_Where is this archive?
1999/1/26 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:15294 Activity:high
1/25    If PureAtria never thought about revision control beyong 10+ people
        and they mass market ClearCase tools to big companies, PureAtria must
        be full of brain dead fuckers who don't know anything about
        \_ another new grad enters the job market and starts bitching about
           work environment.  You will learn to bent over and take it like
           a man soon enough.
        \_ Doesn't "10+ people" mean "up to all the people everywhere"?  That
           sounds like good scaling.
1999/1/23-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:15279 Activity:high
1/22    Clearcase SUCKS. PureAtria is full of dumb shits who really know how
        to market their sucky product.
                \_ it doesnt scale well unless you have great clue in
                   implementing it.. if implemented correctly it scales
                   well beyond dozens and dozens of groups of about 100
                   users each.. w/ fault tolerance of everything except
                   the views (which can be done too tho not worth it).
                \_ I actually happened to have used clearcase and I think
                   that it's really good. Its scalability sucks (so dont
                   use it for a group larger than 10 people) but
                   otherwise, it beats all other revision control systems
                   hands down.
                \_ I don't know what either of you are talking about!
                   I used Clearcase at Oracle, with over 100 active branches
                   of development on 80 platforms around the world. The source
                   in excess of 800MB, and it rocked! stable+fast. I think
                   that you must be the dumbshit, if you haven't ever worked on
                   something larger than your last CS61B project, you'd know!
                   \_ You're at Oracle. 'nuff said.
                   \_ I took 60b and use RCS.  Am I stupid?
                        \_ Duh. Any VC system that doesn't scale from managing
                           1 file to 2 files doesn't deserve to be mentioned.
                           \_ I asked if you think I'm stupid.  The point
                              being, RCS is good enough for my uses.  Use the
                              right tool for the job.  Don't use a sledge
                              hammer to put a thumb tack in a cork board.
1998/12/15 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:15094 Activity:nil
12/13   I'm looking for a simple free Unix version control tool to help me
        manage small to medium multi-file projects--all individual, so coolish
        multiuser stuff isn't necessary (nor is multiple branching). I like
        RCS, and it's easy to use from the shell and emacs, but it doesn't
        handle groups of files well. CVS seems overkill for my needs. Any
        suggestions on something easy to use, preferably integratable w/emacs?
        \_ I'd recommend CVS nonetheless.  It doesn't take that long to
           learn, though the info file on it isn't the best it could be.
           You don't have to use branching and locking and such if you
           don't need it.  CVS works in emacs, too.
1998/11/23-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:15010 Activity:kinda low
11/23   Could someone please explain the motd RCS, or how to use it?
        \_ if you don't know how to use RCS then the best you can do is
           vi ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v and search for whatever you want. RCS
           frontend is just pretty nasty in general.  I don't know how
           to use it myself.  There's CVS which makes RCS quite a bit
           easier to use but it's still pretty nasty.  man CVS.
           \_ Uh you can use 'rlog ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v' to look at what
              versions of the motd were when. Then you can check them out
              with 'co -r[version-number]. Works a lot better if you put in
              a symbolic link to the motd,v file into your current directory.
              I suppose I should put in a readme, or, better yet, a web
              interface..  -ERic
              interface. But then I'm busy having a life ... -ERic
1998/9/8-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:14560 Activity:high
9/7     On the page there's this screenshot of
        top running in a semi-transparent window.  Does anyone know
        anything about that program and where to get it?
        \_ The Enlightenment window manager does the same thing... I think
           it's part of the window manager, not that particular version of
           top.  See for more example shots. -mogul, who
           has never used either of them
           \_ I would think it would be neither top nor the window manager
              doing this, but the terminal emulator program (xterm clone?)
              that does the transparency. -ERic
              \_ Upon looking at the page, it looks more to
                 me like they have an xterm-like program that they can load
                 images into the background of.  I don't know what it is, but
                 it looks  pretty nifty!
           \_ X Servers that provide psuedo-color overlay planes usually
              provide a transparent index.  so standard xterm w/ the right
              background color setting would do the trick?  or is it
              actually doing alpha-blending rather than overlay?  --karlcz
                 \_ It's called eterm.
                    \_ is there an url for eterm?
                       \_ check out --ERic
                \_ ETerm is a nifty concept, but it sucks to configure,
                   is slow, and you need 24 bit or higher to make the
                   backgrounds look even decent, for some reason --dbushong
        \_ it's not transparent. it's got a backgroudn. mail genehkan@xcf
           or myself if you want to learn how to make windows transparent. -ali
           \_ because nobody else would know how to do it :P
1998/7/13 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:14321 Activity:nil
7/13    Is there some place MOTD's are archived or do I have to start
        my own background process to save a copy every once in a while?
        \_ If you want to keep the motd from being nuked create a
           background process that checks the size of the motd.  If it's
           larger than it was about a minute ago then back it up.  If
           it's smaller then copy the backup to /etc/motd.public.  That
           way the motd can never shrink.
           \_ That's a good start, but what if someone replaces the MOTD
              with a larger file filled only with X's ?  I think some
              kind of diff'ing or manual backups are necessary.  Another
              idea would be to manage the MOTD with RCS or CVS.  Then
              if someone nukes it you could just check out a previous,
              uncorrupted version. -emin
           \_ how do you create a background process that will always run,
              even when you are not logged on?
                \_ cron
                        \_ is there any other way?
                                \_ nohup???
1998/3/9-11 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Industry/Jobs] UID:13780 Activity:very high 72%like:13791
3/9     What is ISO 9002 certification and why does everyone brag about
                \_ ISO 9002 is yet another ISO 9000 quality standard.
                everybody brags about it because nobody knows exactly
                what it is.     -muchandr
        \ Most companies get it since ISO 9000 cert.  is required to
        sell software in europe.
        \_ ISO 9000 certification has to do with making sure all your
           processes are documented, and that each document has a revision
           history and an owner.  They come in and ask you how you
           accomplish your job, then ask you to show them the documentation
           that coincides with your explanation.  It's actually not just
           marketing hype, it's something that most organizations should
           be doing anyway, but don't.  -tom
           \_ given the way most (large, especially) companies deal
              with the requirements of ISO 9000, it *is* marketing
              hype.  They pay thousands of dollars once a year to
              make sure they pass the compliance test, rather than
              spending a few thousand to really make it part of
              their business.  That, and it's pretty meaningless
              for software development.
           \_ I actually did an ISO 9000 certification at a large company
              (GE), and you have no clue what you're talking about.  -tom
              \_ I was ISO 9000 deputy for my department for two years,
                 Tom, and I did (passed) two certs.  The above is at
                 least accurate for IBM Austin.  If GE bought into the
                 spirit of ISO, great, but "results are not typical"
                 (note what Scott Adams said about it), especially in
                 software development.  I do agree that the concept is
                 good in theory, though.  -tsang
                 \_ But you're arguing with Tom, so therefore you have no clue
                    what the fuck you're talking about, QED.  Because his
                    particular experience with the ISO 9000 process was
                    positive, _every other_ experience _every other_ person
                    has with ISO, _anywhere_, _has to be_ the same as his.
                 \_ Gee, the first person didn't provide any experience, and
                    didn't sign his name.  I think it's pretty clear that he
                    doesn't know what he's talking about.  tsang apparently
                    has a different experience, which is not the same as
                    having a different, unfounded opinion.  -tom
                    \_ first person was me, too... didn't think I'd have to
                       provide a resume just to provide a general opinion
                       (seen the ISO chapter in Dilbert Future?)  -tsang
1994/3/20 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:31532 Activity:nil
3/19    Ever thought about puting the motd under RCS or SCCS?  Making people
        "check out" the motd.public would:
         - end the two people editing at once problems
         - increase the clue level required to edit it
         - provide a trail to rebuild from when it's hozed
        \_ I bet you're one of those people who puts his mail spool under
          SCCS just in case you forget that you've logged on several times.
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:RevisionControl: