11/4    Holy cow, I got a warning from my ISP that they were notified
        by BSA/baytsp.com that I was copying music/video/software.
        Do they do port scan or something? That's a first for me.
        \_ They hang out on P2P networks and track IP addresses.  -tom
           \_ I believe they are paid by content providers to perform this
              monitoring service, so you should only run this risk with content
              from certain sources (such as Fox movies)
              \_ That's probably true.  -tom

1/14    http://www.amazon.com/Appetite-Self-Destruction-Spectacular-Industry-Digital/dp/1416552154
        \_ where's that gonna go after
           http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10133425-38.html

10/24   is there a command line bittorrent client that lets me download
        selective files out of a torrent, instead of the entire torrent?
        I have this torrent "Busty Conquests of Wendy Whoppers" that contains
        10+ hardcore clips of Wendy Whoppers and her 32GGG breasts, but I
        think I have 3 of these already.  I don't want to destroy my ratio
        downloading gigantic breast porn I already have.  thanks.
        \_ ratio?  what's the point of doing ratios using bittorrent to
           download?  wouldn't they want as many as possible downloaders?
           btw, 32ggg sounds like a medical condition, not hot.
           \_ My website of 32GGG TIT PORN depends on ratios.  So if I download
              3 gigs, I have to leave my computer on until I upload 3 gigs.
              but if I only want 100 megs out of the torrent, like 2 movies
              of 32GGG TITS BEING POUNDED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER,
              I can use a graphical bittorrent client to choose which files
              I want.  Is there a command line bittorrent client that does
              this?
              \_ I wasn't asking about your fetish.  I was asking why a
                 torrent site would implement ratios.
                 \_ It's so people dont kill off their torrents immediately
                    after getting their data.  This helps people who come
                    along in the future and join the torrent.
                    \_ So if you d/l 1 gig, is re-upping that same file to
                       others good for your ratio or you need to u/l a new
                       file to the network?
                       \_ I need to keep my ratio of uploading
                          OH MY GOD ENORMOUS UNHOLY TITS SO BIG THEY HAVE
                          BACK PROBLEMS JESUS CHRIST THOSE SUCKERS MUST BE 15
                          POUNDS EACH WHERE DO YOU EVEN FIND A BRA THAT
                          BIG???? at a 1.0 ratio, or i can't download
                          new torrents handled by this tracker.

9/20    http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3812960/MediaDefender.Source.TrapperKeeper-MDD | ^
          tools mediadefender uses to browse p2p | Update: A list of leaked
          utilities is now available: | AresDataCollector, AresLauncher,
          AresProtector, AresSupernode, AresUDPDataCollector, AutoUpdater,
          AutoUpdaterSource, BTClient, BTDataCollector, BTDecoyClient,
          BTInflationDest, BTInterdictor, BTIPGatherer, BTPoster, BTRemover,
          BTScraper, BTScraperDLL, BTSearcher, BTSeedInflator,
          BTTorrentGenerator, BTTorrentSource, BTTracker, BTTrackerChecker,
          CVS, DCMaster, DCScanner, DCSupply, DistributedKazaaCollector,
          DllLoader, ED2KSupplyProcessor, ... | ... EdonkeyIpBanner,
          FastTrackGift, FastTrackGiftDecoyer, GnutellaDecoyer,
          GnutellaFileDownloader, GnutellaProtector, GnutellaSupply,
          KademliaProtector, KazaaDBManager, KazaaLauncher,
          KazaaSupplyProcessor, KazaaSupplyTaker, KazaaSwarmerDest,
          KazaaSwarmerDistributedSource, KazaaSwarmerDownloader,
          KazaaSwarmerSource, MediaMaker, MediaSwarmerDest, MediaSwarmerSource,
          MetaMachine, MetaMachineHashSetCollector, MetaMachineSpoofer, ... |
          ... MI-GnutellaSupply, MovieMaker, NameServer, NetworkMonitor,
          OverNetLauncher, OvernetProtector, OvernetSpoofer, P2PFileIndexer,
          PioletDC, PioletPoisoner, PioletSpoofer, SamplePlugIn,
          SLSKSpooferDLL, SoulSeekClient, StatusDest, StatusSource,
          SupernodeCollector, SupernodeController, SupernodeDistributer,
          SupplyProcessor, TKCom, TKFileTransfer, TKLauncher, TKProjectManager,
          TKSyncher, UsenetPoster, UsenetSearcher, ... | ...
          WatchDogControllerDestination, WatchDogControllerSource, WinMxDC,
          WinMxLauncher, WinMxProtector, wma generator

9/3     So I was watching the Today Show this morning and in the crowd of
        jackasses trying to get on TV, some dude kept emphatically showing a
        home made sign that simply said, "lemonparty.org." None the wiser, I
        fired up my laptop, curious as to what could possibly be at
        http://lemonparty.org. I wondered why he was smiling so mischievously,
        shaking his sign in the air each time the camera had him in the frame.
        Could it be some family reunion site? A wedding announcement? A site
        devoted to lovers of lemons? Oh no, I would not be so lucky.

        No sir -- or ma'am -- it was a photograph of three geriatric men
        engaged in very passionate adult loving. And by loving, I mean a good
        old fashioned three-way.

        Of course, I couldn't let it go at this. I had to find out more about
        http://lemonparty.org, as it seemed like an inside joke to which I was not
        privy. A friendly google search yielded several results, all informing
        me that http://lemonparty.org is supposedly a shock site, in the ranks of
        loopback.jpg, http://tubgirl.com and goatse.cx. Now, I'm not sure if the
        shock value or http://lemonparty.org packs the same punch as the
        aforementioned peers, but I can only imagine a suburban housewife or
        lonely grandpa typing the web site in as I did, because, well, they
        too had nothing better to do.

        So why am I sharing this? I honestly don't know, other than I needed
        to purge my conscience. I think this was either one of the most
        wonderfully subversive things I've seen on TV in a long time, or one
        of the more disturbing ones (although I doubt there are many young
        kids watching the Today show on Labor Day). But, hey, old guys need to
        get it on, too, I suppose; so lemonparty indeed!
        \_ Yucks!  It's amazing enough that that guy can get it up.

7/11    So what p2p systems are there besides bittorrent and soulseek?
        \_ Lots. I like eMule for when I'm looking for something random
           and hard to find. BitTorrent for everything else.
        \_ Lots. eMule is best for things that are random and hard to
           find. BitTorrent for everything else.

11/12   Anyone know of a way to watch the rights restricted content on the
        BBC' s Torchwood website. (UK only). The episodes that area already on
        BitTorrent are HIGHLY  reccomended but definitely not for the kiddies.
        Think of X-files and CSI crossed with a healthy dose of Sopranos and
        you will get my drift. With lots and lots of DR Who tie-ins along with
        some really really good eye candy.

3/15    dans, would you like to explain your accessing patterns? Why you've
        become really active all of a sudden?   -anonymous coward, dans #1 fan
        http://csua.com/?q=dans&type=hist&sort=d
        \_ Sure.  I'm writing lots of code.  The motd serves as an amusing
           distraction that gives my mind a chance to recharge and helps my
           subconcious chew on the problems I'm hacking on. -dans
           \_ Alright thanks. May I add that you've been very entertaining,
              especially the dans vs. tom cat fight. And thanks for sharing
              your emacs know hows, it's quite educational     -dans #1 fan

3/8     Dude, chill out dans. Go out to the beach or something, it's really
        nice out there.
        \_ Dude, I just spent the last week on the beach in Santa Cruz.  The
        \_ Dude, I just spent the last weak on the beach in Santa Cruz.  The
           motd is what I do when I'm waiting for code to compile, tests to
           run etc. -dans
           \_ I suspect you didn't actually spend a week on the beach. Or
              were you camping on it?
              \_ Okay, let me rephrase, I spent a week in a house that looks
                 out on the beach.  As in literally walk 10 feet across the
                 street and you're on the beach. -dans
           \_ Well, ok then. Good for you. What did you do in SC, coding?
              You seem pretty angry on motd for some reason. Anyways, how
              does one go about living near the beach for a week? Craigslist?
              \_ Spent quality time with my girlfriend, hacked on a project
                                            \_ wait what??? I thought you're gay
                 I'm really into, caroused with friends, and cooked and ate
                 lots of tasty, fresh food.  In my case, I'm fortunate to be
                 part of a circle of friends that values sharing our resources
                 \_ http://www.polyamory.org/SF/poly-folks
                    \_ Wow.  That's a leap. -dans
                 with each other.  A number of us are successful geeks who are
                 always happy to take in guests.  No, I'm not angry.  To me,
                 the motd is like fight club without the stitches.  It's a
                 nice place to spar with written arguments.  Sometimes its
                 informative, and I learn about my fellow CSUAers or change my
                 point of view.  Sometimes it's like beating the crap out of
                 Jared Leto, i.e. picking apart weak arguments until the other
                 person gives up and nukes the thread. -dans
                 \_ You just violated the first two rules of fight club.

1/27    Anyone know of a effective way to block all BitTorrent traffic?
        I'm using pf on OpenBSD and I've tried STFW but as near as I can
        tell, blocking the default ports is useless b/c most BT clients
        are using non-standard high number ports (and I can't block all
        of these for other reasons).
        \_ packet payload inspection.
            According to a recently published paper by AT&T Labs
            1, inspection of the data packets that are transmitting
            between clients is a good way to detect BitTorrent
            traffic. The communication between BitTorrent clients
            starts with a handshake followed by a never-ending
            stream of length-prefixed messages. The header of the
            BitTorrent handshake message uses the following format:

            <a character (1 byte)><a string (19 byte)>

            The first byte is a fixed character with value '19',
            and the string value is 'BitTorrent protocol'. Based
            on this common header, you can use the following
            signatures to identify BitTorrent traffic:

            * The first byte in the TCP payload is the character 19 (0x13)
            * The next 19 bytes match the string 'BitTorrent protocol'
           http://www.f5.com/solutions/technology/rateshaping_wp.html
           brought to you by google and "bittorrent traffic signature"
           \- i'm a little busy to go into depth right now [generic
              p2p detection and killing off the sessions is something we
              are trying to do at industrial strength levels] but the
              approach that makes the most sense sort of depends on your
              relationship with the other users, number of users [can you
              respond via a phone call and telling them to stop, or by
              quashing the traffic [batch vs. realtime detection], will
              you have 0 tolerance or allow some legitmate use], whether
              you want to kill off "most" of the traffic [low hanging
              fruit] or trying to aim for 100%, and related to that,
              your data volume sizes and how crafty the people you are
              trying to catch are ... like say you are ignoring http
              due to data volume and they use http port for the traffic].
              there was a reasonable presentation on this at the "hot-p2p"
              event last year. how c and the above advice is good too.
              SNORT may be simpler for you to use than BRO and i would be
              surprised if there wasnt a BT sig for SNORT.

9/21    http://tinyurl.com/7swro
        It's the dawn of the age of uninhibited file sharing! LionShare is
        creates a neat, private sheltered place where people could shop
        music and movies to their heart's content without entertainment
        companies ever knowing.

6/27    Supreme court rules against Grokster and Streamcast in Grokster vs. MGM
        Discuss.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/technology/27cnd-grokster.html
        \_ All your torrents are belong to us.  Unanimously.
        \_ Better tack an extra 1% onto Federal income tax, because, who
           knows, everyone could download illegal shit.
           http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php  -John
        \_ The reason SCOTUS ruled unanimously against Grokster was because of
           internal e-mails, business-to-business e-mails, and interviews where
           Grokster reps clearly wrote that a core purpose of their software
           Grokster reps clearly said that a core purpose of their software
           was to take over the Napster user base, which was losing users
           rapidly because they put in controls on copyrighted media -- right?
           If this is the case, then for Grokster specifically, this is open
           and shut boys and girls.  I don't believe there was any fundamental
           change in any policy.
           change in any law.  If Comcast wrote in internal e-mails, "We want
           to improve bandwidth so all the people trading the z3r0-d4y will
           keep their subscriptions with us!" then they'd be fucked too.
           If, on the other hand, the creator of BitTorrent is on-record as
           saying he's never used the software he created to download a single
           pirated file (he beta'd the software with pr0n) ... well, maybe you
           can go after businesses trying to make money off BitTorrent.
           The only things interesting IMO are that:  lower courts were so
           farking stupid to write that Grokster was covered under Betamax;
           and that media is covering this as if SCOTUS ruled against P2P
           software in general.
        \_ "The record is replete with evidence that from the moment Grokster
           and StreamCast began to distribute their free software, each one
           clearly voiced the objective that recipients use it to download
           copyrighted works, and each took active steps to encourage
           infringement" -Souter

5/14    'The sites which have been closed, such as LokiTorrent, UK Torrent
        and s0nicfreak, now carry warning messages from the MPAA that read:
        "You Can Click But You Cannot Hide."'
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4545519.stm
        \- Well it appears you can hide. See paper "Is p2p dying or hiding".
           --psb

3/29    http://csua.org/u/bim (cnn.com)
        For some reason I think the Supreme Court would have let the decision
        from the appeals court stand, since the law on this is so obvious --
        but the Court is just hearing the case to help them research the latest
        iPods they could buy for themselves or something similarly stupid.
        \_ anyone have a Rio Karma? Recommended?
        \_ "There's never the intent to break the law when the guy is in the
           garage inventing the iPod," added Justice David Souter.
           Haha, that's funny, I don't think the ipod was invented in the
           garage, hahahaha.
        \_ The law is not obvious. It is not clear that Sony directly
           applies to this case for several reasons: (1) Sony dealt w/
           an actual product that could be used to violate copyrights,
           but could not be used for distribution, (2) Sony's revenue
           did not depend mostly on copyright infringment, while arguably
           Grokster's revenue does (they get there money from ads in the
           pgm), (3) Sony did not intend that the VCR be mostly used for
           infringing uses as Grokster arguably did, (4) the "substantial
           non-infrining uses" was borrowed from patent law by the Sony
           decision (which actually was the dissent after the 1st argument,
           and became the opinion after re-argument) and there isn't any
           clear direction from the USSC re this standard (given that only
           about 90% of Grokster's users use it for infringing uses, is
           it enough that 10% of the users are legit?)
           My understanding is that most of the questioning today was
           about aiding and abetting copyright infringing which would
           take this completely out of Sony territory.

3/11    What do I need to do to make sure I don't get sued when I use
        bittorrent? I am still a newbie. Thx.
        \_ Azureus bittorrent client w/ safepeer plug-in supposedly
           blacklists evil MPAA spy machines...
        \_ Don't download copyrighted materials, or run it on someone else's
           machine.
           \_ How about a real answer? I don't care much for music/movie,
              only apps/games.
              \_ It is a real answer.  Bittorrent was not conceived to
                 provide any sort of anonymity; Bram Cohen states as much
                 somewhere on http://bittorrent.com.  The fact that you have a
                 tracker file hosted somewhere makes your IP show up.  -John
              \_ That's illegal and you can never fully "make sure" you don't
                 get sued.
                 \_ Under bittorrent, how would they trace me? Just give me
                    the technical info, if they were to do so? does the .torrent
                    file contains my info? ip?
                    \_ If you don't know enough to figure this out yourself,
                       you really shouldn't attempt it.
                       \_ In other words "I don't know".
                          \_ In other words, "You're a dumbass, and I'll laugh
                             my ass the fuck off if you get prosecuted"
                             \_ Sniff. Please sir, don't call me names.
                    \_ AFAIK, the underlying d/l stream in BT is not
                       encrypted. Someone w/ a pkt sniffer can tell
                       tell that you are using BT and what you are
                       d/l'ing. If they record the pkts, (which may
                       not be protected under 4 amd) the recorded
                       stream may be used as evid of your copyright
                       violation.
                       The best way to avoid this is to not become
                       an attractive target by d/l'ing high value
                       items frequently. The ONLY 100% safe way is
                       to not d/l copyrighted material.
                       \_ Isn't it easier than that to track someone?
                          I mean, if you're downloading Revenge of the Sith,
                          that means you're also serving it.
                          If I'm the Feds, and I turn on my bittorrent
                          client and start grabbing the movie, I should get
                          a list of IP addresses of everyone I'm getting
                          packets from.  I just tell the movie companies to
                          ask the ISPs to match IP addresses to people's
                          names for those people sending the most packets.
                          It doesn't matter if the data are encrypted, since
                          the IP addresses in the IP headers are in cleartext.
                          (although I feel stupid putting it this way)
                          \_ ISPs do not have to disclose the names of
                             people for a particular IP addr unless the
                             cops get a warrant by showing prob. cause.
                             To show prob. cause, the cops need to prove
                             that the IP addr actually served or d/l'ed
                             copyrighted content thus violating the
                             copyright. (simply having copyrighted
                             content on your computer that you own may
                             be covered under fair use and does not
                             show that you have likely violated the law).
                             If the content is encrypted, then the cops
                             can't really prove to the judge issuing
                             the warrant that you served or d/l'ed
                             copyrighted content and may not be able
                             to meet the prob cause requirement.
                             (Some judges might say that having the
                             files there was enough to est. prob
                             cause so you have to be careful)
                             If you use authentication, and the feds
                             lie to you to get a valid passwd, then
                             you may have all sorts of other legal
                             protections.
                             \_ Maybe that's why there are so few torrent
                                users being sued.  Anyways, since I don't
                                think the torrent data are encrypted anyway,
                                maybe it's not worth arguing about.
                                From a "I might get sued!" standpoint, I
                                personally would take the assumption that
                                encryption won't help for the Revenge of
                                the Sith example, but, YMMV.
              \_ Uhm, it is a real answer.  You want to use it for illegal
                 purposes, so you risk getting sued.
        \_ From what I've heard they've only sued 7 bittorrent users
           (non-ISPs).  It's not as bad as MP3 sharing ... yet.
           Basically, you are a target if you have fat upstream, you leave your
           computer on all the time so you have the double whammy of always
           serving files and your IP address never changing, and you serve a
           lot of new movies.
           You're probably not a juicy target, but for the average user, I
           would just avoid grabbing new mainstream movies, lots of recent
           movies, or serving lots of ISOs like WinXP or Office 2003.
           \_ Thanks! And to the guy above, f*** off!
              \_ Uhm, so you basically posted to get someone to pat you on the
                 back and say "Oh no, baby, it's okay.  No one's going to sue
                 you!"  That's pretty retarded.  I mean, honestly, if you're
                 going to trade in copyrighted materials, you become vulnerable
                 to a variety of legal actions.  Period.  If you can't accept
                 that, the just buy the fucking thing and quite wringing your
                 that, then just buy the fucking thing and quite wringing your
                 hands.
                 \_ Every piece of software on your computer is legally
                    obtained?
                    \_ No clue...but I know the risks and am willing to
                       accept them.  *shrug*
                       \_ I see, so all that no stealing lecture does not
                          apply to yourself. I am speachless.
                          \_ You do realize that more than two people can post
                             right?  I haven't campaigned for or against the
                             morality of the issue, only the OP's retardation
                             about playing games with legality and essentially
                             entering a state of denial.  You're an idiot,
                             by the way, just in case that wasn't clear in your
                             post.
                 \_ He didn't ask for a lecture, just how to avoid the law.
                    \_ So if op had asked you how to shoplift, you would
                       have told him w/o informing him that (1) it was
                       wrong to steal and (2) he may be subject to criminal
                       liability?
                       What I find more disturbing is the fact that op
                       feels entitled to download games (and whatever
                       else he wants) w/o paying for it.  Regardless of
                       the civil/criminal liability associated w/ this
                       sort of activity, op OUGHT to realize that actual
                       people worked on the games that he is stealing
                       and if everyone acted like him and stole these
                       games there would be no incentive for people to
                       work on future games. If the hard work of others
                       brings you benefit, PAY FOR IT or we all lose in
                       the long run.
                       \_ I'm not going to disagree with you about games, but
                          I don't agree that stealing software always costs
                          companies money in lost business.  I've used stolen
                          copies of very expensive software to get the feel
                          for them and figure out how to use them and then
                          spent huge amounts of Other People's Money to buy
                          the real thing based on having tried it for free.
                          In some cases I would probably not have made that
                          purchasing decision had I not been able to try it out.
                          So in the end, the company made *more* money than
                          they would had I not stolen a copy while I was a poor
                          student who couldn't afford it anyway.
                          \_ I can see your rationale. If you end up
                             buying a copy of the software or deleting
                             it b/c you don't want to buy it, there is
                             no violation of the principle that one ought
                             pay for things from one which one derives a
                             benfit. Unfortunately the law does not (and
                             probably cannot ever) allow for this.
                             The general principle could be applied to
                             games/music/books/movies/&c. if there were
                             no public library or private rental systems,
                             however, it is so easy and affordable to
                             rent things it doesn't really make sense to
                             steal.
                             \_  Well, the way for this to be legal is for the
                                 company to have the foresight to give away
                                 a version that's good enough to learn the
                                 commands and get a feel for it so poeple like
                                 me don't *have* to break the law to try their
                                 damn product.  Wasn't there a free version of
                                 Doom in the begining to get people hooked?
                                 After that, I was more than happy to shell
                                 out the money for the real thing which I
                                 probably wouldn't have done otherwise.
                                 \_ right...I'm sure companies which provide
                                    demo versions never get their software
                                    stolen.  -tom
        \_ Join a private forum.  No, really.
        \_ Would decentralization, using SSL encryption, and only using
           centralized servers to randomly connect people, and always
           use another node as a middle-man when xferring data make it
           really hard to track? Sort of a cross between filetopia and
           bittorrent...
           \_ onion routing, so nobody's sure what data is going through them,
              taht would be more like it.  See 'freenet'

3/10    Is there a tutorial on how to use bittorrent? I downloaded Azureus
        but now what? Where do I find the torrents?
        \_ Depends on what you want.  A good place for legal(ish) anime
           is http://www.animesuki.com  There are also site for bollywood movies
           and such.
        \_ It's really pretty straightforward.  Download a .torrent file, open
           it with your bittorrent client.  Some things of interest:
           The Grey Album (mashup of Jay-Z's The Black Album and The Beatles'
           The White Album):
           http://www.illegal-art.org/audio/grey.html
           The Harry Potter Remix:
           http://www.illegal-art.org/video/wizard.html
           http://www.btefnet.net posts torrents of recently aired TV shows.
           Otherwise, try googling for 'torrents'.
           -dans
           \_ dans, I'm reporting you to the FBI for illegal distribution
              of copyrighted TV shows.
           P.S. you might want to check out the official BitTorrent 4.0
           client just released for Windows and Linux.  I'd comment on it, but
           I mostly use a Mac these days.
        \_ http://www.piratebay.org
           \_ARRRRRRRR!

2/25    No more bittorrent for me :(
        http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/24/technology/hollywood_lawsuits.reut
        \_ eek. how does that work though? let's say someone puts up a web
           page with his "free e-book". But it's really an illegal copy.
           Clearly he's liable for the illegal distribution but what about
           users who downloaded it? Granted this isn't plausible in all
           cases.
           \_ just don't use bittorrent for those blockbuster movies, it seems

2/10    Motd poll: have you used bittorrent or another P2P for an illegal
        download within the last 2 months?
          Yes: ..
          No : .....
        For a movie (if yes)?
          Yes: ..
          No : .
        \_ BT as a means for widespread piracy is pretty dead in the long run-
           it was never meant for it and only ended up being put to use for
           "illegal" downloads because it was available, worked well, and was
           pretty much under the radar.  The basic BT architecture isn't
           suited to the kind of untraceability you need for downloads.  There
           are more appropriate ideas for this sort of use out there.  -John
           \_ With a 'private' tracker and .torrent download site scheme it's
              a bit safer.  You need it to be truly private though.
        \_ Does d/l'ing eps of Atlantis/MI-5 that I missed count as illegal?
           If so, I have used bt to illegally d/l eps. Otherwise no. BTW,
           why would you want to d/l a movie when you can just netflix it?
           \_ I dunno. I never downloaded movies but I recently did get a
              few things off of torrents (SW "original laserdisc" DVDs, a
              couple of subtitled anime flicks, and hellboy of all things.
              I don't even really care about that stuff but now I'm probably
              on some FBI list since I got it from lokitorrent. The chances
              are slim but they could probably bust my ass to kingdom come
              based on the stuff I read lately. And yeah I've used it for a
              few missed TV shows and apparently that's just as illegal. But
              it's the movie guys seem the most interested in making a big
              hoopla about this right now.

2/10    Lokitorrent is dead.  Long live lokitorrent!
        \_ Do you have more info about the outcome of the lawsuit?  Did the
           court force them to put up the index.html page they now have at
           http://www.lokitorrent.com ?
           \_ I wonder when they'll go after bittorrent downloaders instead of
              sites.
           \_ http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=661

2/9     A lot of movies I get from Kazaa or Bittorrent are in AVI format, and
        I end up having to convert them back to MPG to burn to DVD or VCD
        which is a big drag. Is there any reason why people prefer AVI instead
        of the good 'ol MPG format? Is it the size, compression ratio,
        quality, or other factors?
        \_ http://www.videohelp.com has enormous amounts of information on
           formats and converters.  It's a bit dense with information, but if
           you can figure out the very basics it's a huge help.  -John
        \_ Um, DivX?
           \_ Yeah, basically.  AVI is really (like MOV) just a container file
              format.  Lots of different codecs are often used inside the AVI
              container: MPEG4, MSMPEG4v2 (which i think is like Divx), etc.
              MPG files are usually only MPEG1 (VCD) or MPEG2 (DVD), and
              compared to MPEG4 variants, they're much crappier for a given
              bitrate.  --dbushong
        \_ VCD sucks. Get a player that can play Xvids.
        \_ Mainly, it's the quality/size ratio.  I use DIKO to convert my avis
           to DVDs.  It can convert to VCDs as well, I believe.
        \_ Don't forget, Kazaa logs all of your downloads.
        \_ Anyone tried eXeem? the "distributed bittorrent" thing?
        \_ Size, compression ratio, and quality are all the same factor.
        \_ Anyone here use Limewire?  I really like it.
        \_ So what're suggested p2p or bittorrent client for music only? Looking
           for obscure world fusion bands, mostly.
           \_ "They mostly come out at night, mostly"
              \_ Your brain has been classified as: filled with too much pop-
                 culture crap.
                 \_ Aliens is pop culture crap?!  I challenge you to
                    thunderdome, biotch!
           \_ Soulseek

1/24    Of all the p2p software, which is the fastest at transferring large
        (>1GB) files from one person to another?  Some are premised on
        multiple concurrent uploads to speed up the download (e.g.,
        BitTorrent), which is great for popular files, but I have a large
        set of data that would only be interesting to one other person.  Is
        FTP still the best way to go?
        \_ Split up the file and use multiple FTP connections.  The improvement
           over single FTP connection is large if the distance is great (e.g.
           between California and Japan).
           between California and Japan), where the bottleneck is the roundtrip
           time instead of bandwidth.
        \_ p2p isn't about moving files from one user to the next.  In your
           example above, justputting the files on a website would be as fast
           ast.
           \_ One caveat with just putting files on a website, most Apache
              builds can't send files larger than 2 gigs. -dans
        \_ Also, how much data are you talking about?  Tens of gigs, or
           terabytes?  Once you get into the terabyte range you're probably
           better off just yanking the hard disks, and fedexing them.
           Sneakernet is still the bandwidth king. -dans
           \_ "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of
               tapes." -some guy in the fortune file
        \_ I have files around 2-5GB in size, so FTP sounds like the way to go.
           Any reccommendations for free, secure FTP servers for Windows XP?
           Going back to the p2p model, at what point does it become efficient?
           That is, how many people does it take to share a file such that it
           gets distributed fairly quickly?  --op.  (ps - these are VMWare
           images)
           \_ If you can initiate the transfer you might consider scp or rsync
               with the appropriate flag to compress on the fly.  As to your
               p2p question, I think your understanding is a little flawed.
               What p2p lets you do is aggregate bandwidth from more than one
               source.  Simplifying a lot and ignoring overhead, it's going to
               take the same amount of time to transfer a file from a single
               server connected via a T1 (1.5 megabits per second) as it would
               to transfer a file via a p2p network where six sites with
               256 kilobit per second connections are hosting the file.  Add
               more users and you add more bandwidth.
               -dans

12/19   http://suprnova.org is down again, I guess the corporations are winning...
        \_ This time you're actually right.  It has (apparently) gone down
           permenently.
           permanently.
        \_ what's the best replacement out there atm?
           \_ I don't know, but http://lokitorrent.com seems pretty good, 1.5 million
              active peers according to the site. Registration req'd.
              active peers according to the site. (free) registration req'd.
        \_ I've never liked bittorrent, it always stalls on me. I also find
           it difficult to find anything with it. The only thing I found it
           good was was dling some anime.
           \_ This makes you ... a loser.
           good was dling some anime.
           \_ BT is the suck for illegal content, as it's always going
              to rely on the tracker being available.  For legit downloads,
              like OS .isos and such, it rocks.  -John
              \_ I use it exclusively for TV shows I've missed.  It seems to
                 do the trick.
                 \_ where do you find sources?
                    \_ Up until last week, http://suprnova.org
                    \_ "Google"?  -John
              \_ It's great for "popular" illegal content. I see tons of stuff
                 out there, almost all recent stuff appears on there and will
                 be fast for a time. Within those parameters it's the best.
                 It does rely on having popular listing sites like suprnova.
                 \_ so are there any good suprnova replacement sites?
        \_ I suspect they simply paid the site owners off.
        \_ Check the http://slashdot.org thread about it.  Several other sites are
           mentioned as alternatives.
           \_ If you know good ones can you name a couple? I hate slashdot
              threads.
              \_ empornium.us.  3 guesses what kind of torrents *they* host.

12/1    any rec's for a free/open web-based document management/sharing
        system? thanks.
        \_ PHProjekt.  http://www.phprojekt.com  Or PHPGroupware.  There
           was a recent slashdot thread on web-based collaboration tools,
           which may have some pointers to what you want.  -John
           \_ thanks... I couldnt seem to find the slashdot thread... is
              this what you had in mind?    - rory
              On Collaborative Weblogs
            http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/31/1112234&tid=95&tid=146
              \_ Nope sorry, my mistake, it was about calendaring tools:
                 http://tinyurl.com/6oxae
                 some good links, though.  -John
        \_ Mambo
           \_ Mambo seemed pretty good when I looked into it.  If you don't
              need something light and fast, my co-worker is setting up
              Plone, which is Zope-based.  I'm not involved in the project,
              so I don't know why Plone was chosen.
        \_ please let me know which one you've decided.  I tried ZOPE and
           others, never find one that I really like.     -kngharv

11/26   I am new to file sharing, so here is a dumb question.  Does the use
        of p2p program protects the client more than direct http/ftp download?
        \_ Depends on what you mean by "protect"--your security against
           exploits/trojans?  Anonymity?  -John

11/19   Looks like suprnova is down. I guess they've been hit by the corp.
        \_ looks fine.  try www.suprnovra, not suprnova
           \_ Nope.  http://suprnova.org is the real one; http://suprnova.com and net are
              look-alike ripoffs
              \_ Yes, and http://suprnova.org works for me.
                 \_ Down for me.
        \_ Try http://torrentreactor.net--they're OK.  -John

11/14   What's the largest single torrent you've ever completed a download of?
        >10GB:.
        2-10GB:.....
        <2GB:
        Torrent?: ..
        \_ I read there was a study which said 35% of all internet traffic is
           BitTorrent.  Why haven't we seen BitTorrent lawsuits?
           \- do you have a ptr to this study? my numbers are pretty much
              pre-BT ... ~psb/MOTD/InternetFlows. this would suggest a big
              increase in traffic, not just a shift in composition. --psb
                \_ http://in.tech.yahoo.com/041103/137/2ho4i.html
                   Google, Partha.  -John

10/21   http://bitflood.org:8080/?file=791b2f5d95a54d1381b85f271b51f71e73964185
        Get the 96MB video for a high-quality clip of the Crossfire Jon
        Stewart interview.  This is required viewing, especially if you want
        to stop watching cable TV political analysis shows.
        (For the newbs:  Save the .torrent file, then open it in BitTorrent)
        \_ What is up with this?  Stewart was an ass and the other guy was
           no better.  BTW, Stewart's own ratings have plunged since then.
           \_ Stewart was hilarious, but he had a point: without being partisan
              on the matter, he pointed out that CNN puts entertainment value
              before relevance in its programming decisions.  He's right in
              saying that Crossfire is poor parody of a debate show, but I don't
              think a real debate show would do well on CNN- the ones on PBS
              don't seem to attract viewers.
              \_ If you ask me, Stewart was also talking about the problem
                 of Begala coming "from the left" and Tucker "from the right",
                 and there not being an honest attempt to reach a correct
                 answer (regardless of political leanings), implying that
                 there is none or one is not considered important.  By doing
                 this, you entertain liberals and conservatives and help them
                 think the other side is full of idiots (encouraging the
                 polarization of America), but you don't help them come to a
                 correct, intelligent answer.
                 E.g., part of the correct answer is if Tucker would say
                 Dubya is a fucking moron to still say he would have invaded
                 Iraq if he had known everything we know today.
           \_ are you sure?  or are you believing drudgereport
              again?  the daily show has been on a total of one time
              since friday's crossfire segment - danh
              \_ What have they been doing for the last week?
                \_ the crossfire segment everyone keeps talking about was
                   last friday.  the daily show just ran reruns all last
                   week.  i hope matt drudge gets eye syphilis. - danh
                   \_ So, what you're saying is that Drudge's ratings info
                      is based on last week, _before_ the Crossfire interview
                      and during a week of re-runs.  Gotcha.  'Cos this week
                      has been awesome.
                      \_ right.  do you hate drudge as much as i do
                         yet? - danh
                         \_ DRUDGE HAS NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING WRONG!!!!!1
                            --motd
                            \_ What?  You prefer Dan Rather and CBS for their
                               highly accurate and well researched and unbiased
                               reporting?
                               \_ In the dictionary under "straw man" it says,
                                  "see this post."
                                  \_ Huh?  Are you sure you don't mean
                                     "false dichotomy" or maybe "red
                                     herring?"
                                     \_ No, you're looking for "false, but
                                        accurate"!
                         \_ I'm not sure that's possible, but I get your point.

9/28    I wanna buy the complete 4 seasons of Southpark but Amazon is kind of
        pricy. What are other places that sell Southpark DvDs cheap? ok thx
        \_ http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com looks ~$30 cheaper
        \_ bittorrent + time = free
          \_ you know I've never used Kazaa/Napster (fear), is bittorrent
             easy to use and is it legal?
             \_ bittorent is free, easy to use, small, and spyware-free.
                You can use it to obtain materials legally and not.
                Re South Park, the easy step is getting the episodes; the
                takes-time-but-otherwise-easy step is finding/burning the
                DVD ISOs or figuring out how to burn non DVD ISOs.
             \_ Free or legal, choose one.  That being said, bittorrent hasn't
                had any lawsuits filed to my knowledge, and the only 'takedown'
                letters I've heard of are for the people running the trackers
                and torrent dump sites (which would not be you).

6/28    Looking for Macross Do You Remember Love, 0 on Kazaa. Where else
        can you download it from?
        \_ emule
        \_ What does the ", 0" on the end mean? Are you looking for both
           MDYRL and Macross Zero?
           \_ Sigh.  Read the "0" as "zero" and parse as describing the number
              of results from Kazaa.
        \_ If you want Macross Zero it's probably easiest to goto
           http://www.animesuki.com and download it with bittorrent.

6/23    http://bugmenot.com
        \_ shit, stop sharing this stuff.  the more you advertise something
           the this the faster it becomes completely useless.

2/8     give a fake email address, go to jail for 7 years:
        http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35376.html
        \_ Give a fake address *when registering a domain*.  Sounds reasonable
           to me.  Like buying property, you're entering a oontract with Gov't
           and society--we should be able to contact the real you.
           \_ Good call.  The article is stupid.  BTW, can someone explain
              what they mean by "the intention ... is clearly p2p networks"?
              AFAICT this doesn't affect anyone using some p2p software from
              their home dsl.  Though the harley analogy is really fucking
              stupid and scary... --scotsman
           \_ It's much more fun to scream about civil liberties, the patriot
              act, and the evil bushco.  Who asked you to bring any common
              sense to a motd issue?

2/5     So I've been trying to download stuff on Kazaa and I'm very impressed
        at how the record industry is fighting back by uploading fake music
        files. 95% of the stuff I download now are bogus. I'm very very
        impressed. At any rate, what are some other non-sucking p2p programs
        I could use? Thanks.
        \_ IRC
        \_ my friend swears by suprnova (w/o the e). it's bittorrent
           \_ suprnova is great, but only if you're looking for something
              either incredibly popular or very recent. I use suprnova as my
              Tivo.
        \_ if there's some version of a song that has 50 sources, don't believe
           it.  Download a different version.
        \_ you should sue.  you have the right to download non-bogus files.
           the information wants to be free!
        \_ I like Ares alot... just started using it, no ads, good
           selection of music.
        \_ Someone asked about earthstation5 recently, but no replies.
           Has anyone used this at all yet?
           \_ It had a bug or backdoor (which one is a matter of controversy)
              which gave a remote attacker complete RW control of your drives.
              I won't touch it anytime soon.

1/4     Ares is the new P2P client. Kazaa-like interface, no ad-ware,
        good selection with good bitrates based on my initial searching.
        \_ How does it compare to Kazaa-lite?

12/7    Recommendations for a good file-sharing client? I'm mainly
        interested in shamelessly subverting copyright law (ie, downloading
        music MP3's). Kazaa seems to be sucking as of late.
        \_ What's your login, I ll email you what I use.
           \_ phillip@csua
        \_ If you're looking for mainstream, there are few good bittorrent
           sites.
           \_Really?  From my experience bittorrent sucked...all you can
             find is phish and it took all day to download.  Lemme know if
             I'm missing something. The program is cool. -scottyg
             \_ i will now have to listen to anthrax at top volume
                for an hour to get that horrible audio image out of my
                mind.
             \_ Bittorrent is really good for "0-day" stuff and new TV/movies.
                It's hard to find good .torrent files though.  It's not a good
                general-purpose P2P; it's good for spreading a few files really
                fast.
        \_ I use emule and winmx. winmx for music, emule for everything else.
        \_ dc++
           \_ I second that, especially Scandinavian hubs.
        \_ soulseek is good (http://www.slsknet.org

11/28   I have Verizon and I noticed that whenever I run Kazaa, my ISP
        disconnects me and reconnecws me every few minutes or so. How
        to prevent that?
        \_ stop pirating software, music, books and pr0n.
           \_ shut the fuck up.  Current IP laws is so fucking twisted
        \_ try emule, it's better than kazaa. and the above poster forgot
           about divx movie pirating...
        \_ Call Verizon customer service to verify, but you might be able
           to initialize the new phone (and disable the old) by calling
           *228 and following the instructions.  (The number also has an
           option for updating the Preferred Roaming List, PRL.)
                \_ *** Did you mean to post this above? ***

10/16   Are there any p2p applications that use port 80?
        \_ I know there're some that use HTTP, though I'm not sure which ones

10/1    http://wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,60650,00.html
        Chuck D and LL Cool J face off about file sharing.  Guess the
        shil, win a teddy bear!
        \_ they both sound like utter morons
           \_ this is some sort of surprise coming from guys who call
              themselves "Chuck D" and "LL Cool J"?  think about it.

9/9     RIAA Rocks! They got $2,000 off of the girl who liked "nursery
        rhymes"!
        \_ urlP
           \_ http://csua.org/u/48n
              \_ A 12-year-old living in the projects who misunderstood
                 copyrights, and they got $2000.  I think I start file
                 swapping just on principle for that one....
                 \_ Lets boycott the mainstream music industry.  Stop buying
                    albums.
                    \_ I think not.  That felon shared over 1,000 copyrighted
                       songs.  And you tell me she didn't have an idea it
                       was wrong.
        \_ Anyone knows how many song she downloaded or stored on her PC?
           \_ I read it was over 1200.
        \_ i threw out all my Metallica albums cuz they were at the
           forefront of this wussiness.
           \_ of course, it's very convenient that metallica had already
              started to suck by the time napster happened.
              And Justice For All was their last decent album.
              \_ Started to suck?  They *always* sucked.  All that changed
                 is you got old enough and your taste improved enough to
                 see it.
           \_ That's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
           \_ albums you already paid for?  yeah that'll hurt them.
        \_ why don't the go after the $29.99 guys instead?
           \_ duh, they've got lawyers
        \_ So, motd oracles, explain this to me:  if I rip CDs that I own
           and share them on my hard-drive, will the RIAA have a case?  Or
           does it have to be a case of mp3s I've obviously dl'd from another
           user?  And if I can't share mp3s I've ripped myself, is it even
           legal for me to be making mixed tapes/CDs for friends?  For my
           own use?  And does any of this hold any legal water or is it all
           a case of "comply or we'll bankrupt you with legal fees"?
                \_ Look, cut the semantics, just turn yourself in.
                   Criminal.  -John
                   \_ Ah, I see.  I'll just report to the nearest security
                      booth for termination, shall I, friend Computer? ;-)
                \_ Yes, no, maybe, yes, yes.
        \_ you want to stop the RIAA, help develop a celestial file sharing
           program.  broadcast/relayed queries, distributed archiving in an
           encryped partial format (so nobody knows what they've really
           cached), and swarm file downloading via UDP, ICMP, or other
           connectionless protocols with obfuscated and/or FORGED or SOURCE
           IP ADDRESSES.  It'd be nigh-unto-impossible to track where a file
           came from.  They'd have to find a way to sue the entire internet.
           Good luck RIAA.
        \_ Fight the Power. Music yearns to be Free.
           \_ Not while it's in the vested interests of the big labels to
              keep it in chains:
              http://www.taxi.com/transmitter0307/tips0307.html

9/5     What's the best p2p client to use nowadays (for music)? I liked
        soulseek but it stopped working. I'd really prefer spyware-free.
        \_ telnet to port 80.

8/21    Is http://earthstation5.com for real?  Anyone tried it?
        \_ http://download.com.com/3302-2196_4-10210370.html
        \_ Their homepage is pretty worthless http://www.es5.com
        \_ the RIAA is going to start funding settlers now

5/31    Anybody know where to find old version of programs like Kazaa and
        Real Player?  Their respective web sites only have the latest version
        but the latest version always have bloatware or spyware.  I just want
        to be able to play some .rm files and d/l some music without some
        100 meg monster program.  Yes, I've searched google, but it has too
        many results to sift through.  There must be a site that archives
        some of this stuff somewhere.  Thanks.
        \_ STFW http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=real
        \_ STFW for Kazaa Lite
        \_ real has old version on the web.
        \_ For Kazaa, does anyone tried giFT ?
           \_ No, I prefer outright thEFT.

4/8     alright, it seems to be time again:
        audiogalaxy ruled but is gone, kazaa worked great but is now
        sucking... what's the next mp3 d/l'ing software I should try?
        \_ what's wrong with Kazaa?
           \_ spyware?
              \_ Kazaalite?
        \_ eMule --aaron

2/27    Anyone found a non-preorder copy of moo3 in a store anywhere in
        the SF BA?  If so, please post what store and location.  Thanks!
        \_ frys (in palo alto dunno about elsewhere)
        \_ ObKazaa
            \_ what is that "Ob" means when people say "ObKazaa" or
                "ObGoogle?"
                \_ Obligatory.  As in "Obligatory STFW response" or
                   "Obligatory suggestion to try Kazaa, dumabass" (the
                   'dumbass' is sort of implied)
           \_ No. Wrong.  I'm not a thief.  I want to *buy* the game as odd
           from http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent ... or mail me. -dwc
              as this may seem to those of you with no ethics. -OP
        \_ http://www.donkax.com/bittorrent/index.php?dir=Games get bittorrent
           from http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent ... or mail me.
           \_ signature purged for your safety.
           \_ Gamestop will have it.

12/20   If one is snarfing porn and one has used a secure erasing program
        to erase the incriminating files from one's own drive. How many
        other locations likely have records of the transaction and how long
        will those records persist? This was via kazaalite, a spyware-free
        p2p client.
            \- just out of curiousity, is this a shared work computer, hide
               from spouse or is it child p0rn or something like that? --psb
        \_ The server, in its log files, forever. Your browser cache,
           until you clear it. Your browser history file, for however
           long you have your browser set to retain files.
                \_ You forgot about the logs for all of the transparent
                   proxies (most of them will have copies of the content
                   in their caches as well).
           \_ The server as in the server from whence I downloaded the porn?
              A bummer about Windows Media Player is that I have know idea how
              to clear its buffer. Anyway, thanks. This is pretty much as I
              figured. I was worried about things like whether our router or
              our DSL modem keeps transaction logs.
              \_ link:www.techtv.com has a howto for being able to clear WMP's
                 history.
              \_ It depends on the router.  Some routers have the ability to
                 replicate all packets coming in from a certain port or IP
                 address and redirect it to a workstation with analysis
                 software running.  This is standard practice in the heavily
                 loaded POPs.  ISPs analyze traffic patterns to better plan out
                 network buildouts.

11/15   http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/biplog
        Coming soon, a real hostname. -dans

10/25   is there some sourceforge project that integrates
        a mailing list, file sharing capabilities, member
        profiles, etc... basically i'm looking for a replacement
        for a yahoogroups type mailing list.
        \- gnu mailman is somewhat extensible. --psb
        \_ Emacs has this, M-x set yahoo-replacement mode on

10/25   When I hit <DEAD>localhost:1214<DEAD> (Kazaa port) it works ok. But
        when I go to <DEAD>:1214/ it no longer works. Whys that?
        \_ What IP?
        \_ Is the kazaa server listening on <ip>:1214? You can check
           with netstat or something.
        \_ Packet filter/personal firewall?

8/23    Will network performance suck again, now that the semester is
        starting?  Or has something been done about it?
        \_ it sucked before?
           \_ you didn't notice?
              \_ guess not :)
           \_ yes.
        \_ If you can't beat them, join 'em.  dl kazaa.
           \_ Make sure to get the fully spyware enabled trjoan horse version.
        \_ Some things have been done.  SETI@@@@@@@@Home now has its own ISP
           connection.  The cost of bandwidth has come down, so our
           bandwidth cap is now 90 megabits/sec instead of 70 megabits/sec.
           Within the next week or two, it will be raised to 100 megabits/sec
           once some new hardware is installed.
           My guess is that there will still be performance issues, if not
           at the beginning of the semester, then at least by the end of the
           calendar year.  I'm currently writing up a report requesting
           immediate emergency funding for bandwidth charges, with longer-
           term plans to do more with managing KaZaa, and managing or
           charging high-bandwidth users in general.  -tom
           \_ That's how it starts.  Next you'll be putting KaZaa users
              into camps.  And people using KaZaa _and_ SETI@Home will be
              put to death.  Heil Tom!
              \_ I don't know tom or his personality, but I think his
                 idea above is good.
                 \_ Sure, until someone decides *your* traffic isn't a priority
                    and you should be charge or 'managed'.
           \_ and just how do you plan to put a stop to Kazaa users when the
              Kazaa topology is dynamic?
                    \- you can because the "protocol isnt dynamic"
              \_ I don't think you can "put a stop" to peer-to-peer file
                 sharing; certainly not by technical means, on a campus like
                 Berkeley.  But the effects of KaZaa can be measured, and
                 the people using KaZaa can be managed.  (As in, "stop doing
                 that").  Remember, we're talking about on-campus machines,
                 not the dorms (which have their own separate cap).  Note
                 that the problem with KaZaa on campus is files being
                 downloaded by people from off-campus; campus people
                 using KaZaa to download files don't contribute to the
                 problem due to the current algorithm for bandwidth
                 charging.  -tom
                 \_ stopping p2p pirary on college campuses is VERY easy.
                    All you need to do is to adopt a new university policy
                    that sez if you're caught pirating stuff you'll be
                    expelled.  No appeals.  then you start the random search
                    in the dorms and start expelling some of the incoming
                    freshman.  You'll see the p2p traffic drop to NIL once
                    the pictures of expelled freshmen gets on Daily Cal.
                    Remember the naked guy?  After the law against nudity
                    at Berkeley and on campuses, and he got expelled, nobody
                    dared to show up naked.  Enforcement is the key.  Expell
                    the little fuckers without due process and you'll see
                    \_ Or as they say, "try and then execute them!"
                    everybody marching in line.
                 \- stopping kaza, gnutella, napster and a couple of other
                    p2p piracy programs is solved problem technically.
                    it is fairly strightforward to detect them in real time
                    and blast them with RST packets. it is an open question
                    what the policy should be and it is slightly involved
                    attempting to "whitelist" some users who are allegedly
                    using it for "real work". the "dynamic topology" and
                    configurable ports dont matter. of course there are
                    more involved ways to hide, but 99% of the users at
                    the moment dont do that ... although the number of
                    evaders may increase *some* if the "kazka obliterator"
                    code were deployed. ok tnx.
                         \- actually to do this 100% on a large scale isnt
                            that simple technically, but it is pretty simple
                            to deploy something that fucks up enough
                            p2p programs so that it is effectively unusable.
                            and this is a case where you dont need 100%
                            coverage to change behavior.
                            \_ The problem is, the more you fuck it up, the
                               more incentive you provide to find ways
                               around the blocks.  It will always be easier
                               to hide file sharing than to block it.
                                  \- thus far, untrue. or only true with
                                     very sophisticated users and very
                                     unsophisticated detectors ... but not
                                     inherently true. --psb
                               But certainly there are measures which could
                               be taken which would make an impact, if it's
                               decided that it's a good idea to take such
                               measures.  (The other problem is, once you
                               make people hide their P2P usage, you have
                               a harder time finding them to rap their
                               knuckles).   -tom
                               \-as i said above, most attempts to hide
                                 do not work against a good detection
                                 system. if you are doing something stupid
                                 like looking for a static port or a
                                 list of src/dst addresses like in the
                                 case of the napster "metaservers" it is
                                 easy to get around by just punching in a
                                 different number somewhere ... but at this
                                 point setting up a fancy proxy or encrypted
                                 tunnel is beyond the ken of most of the
                                 community ... perhaps something canned will
                                 emerge soon that gets around the current
                                 generation of our detectors, but at the moment
                                 this is not a technical but a political/
                                 resource allocation problem. this is based
                                 on many months of experience at a decent
                                 sized institution with a fair number of
                                 sophisticated users. --psb
                               \_ Is this the point where we start talking
                                  about The Tragedy Of The Commons?  I miss
                                  those threads....

8/21    What p2p software do sodans use?
        Soulseek: .
        MLDonkey: .
        Gnucleus: .
        Kazaa: .
        Kazaa Lite: ..
        WinMX: .
        /csua/tmp/: .
        /etc/motd.public: .
        smbclient to your windows box: .
        \_ Kazaa Lite = Kazaa - Spyware

4/4     What's the mp3 finder of choice now aside from kazaa?
        \_ AudioGalaxy
                \_ you know, this trojans your browser
        \_ probably, but a fun way to run audiogalaxy is on a linux
           box somewhere, and to do searches with your web browser
        \_ gnucleus... Open-source gnutella client :)
           on the computer of your choice, so there's no way you
           can be trojaned.
        \_ I use Grokster with all the spyware chopped out by AdAware.
           \_ You think so....

3/7     Can someone provide a ref to what the fasttrack network is?  Does
        it feature the same sort of "can't be shut down" features that
        Gnutella does?  Or is it more napster/centralized?
        \_ They claim it can't be, RIAA/etc claim it can.  That they killed
           Morpheus (who used their software but didnt pay their bills)
           instantly says they have some sort of control but it sounds like
           an _intentional_ hole they put in the clients, not a central server
           napster style event.  They are keeping secret the technical details
           of how their network works.

2/19    Tom posts an intelligent comment on usenet:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=a4u5df%241uvv%241%40agate.berkeley.edu
        \_ Charging is one possibility except then you get into the problem
           of exactly who to charge.  Do you charge the student assigned to a
           workstation?  Ok, another user logs in from another local machine
           and uses the other student's machine for external access.  Do you
           charge the whole department or sub-unit and "let God sort it out"?
           That just means rich departments stay on the net and poorer ones
           take the net away from most of their users.  You can't charge by
           IP address because IP != unique user and packets don't have user
           names on them.  There's still no answer short of simply cutting off
           a lot of people from external net access and I don't think anyone
           wants that.
           \_ "tragedy of the commons" problems usually have no easy solution.
              The issue of access to national parks is a good example; you
              can't restrict access to Yosemite Valley in a way that's
              pleasing and fair, but you have to restrict access if you want
              Yosemite Valley to retain its value.  At some point you have
              to make some decisions about tradeoffs.  A campus phone isn't
              equivalent to a unique user, either, but we manage to bill
              people for phone service.  -tom
              \_ I don't have a problem with the basic concept of billing for
                 usage but it isn't the same as phones.  Most people aren't on
                 the phone all day.  Most aren't making LD calls.  And it is a
                 bit difficult to login to your phone from my desk without your
                 knowledge and rack up a huge bill to 976-hotsex.  $300 in
                 calls on my phone to my office mate's mother in Tokyo is easy
                 to track down and bill properly.  With the technology at hand
                 I only see raising bandwidth or cutting a lot of people off
                 from the public net.  I don't see the latter as a good choice
                 for a research/educational institution.  It also wouldn't fly
                 politically.
                        \- i think this is naive.
                 \_ How are you planning to pay for this increased bandwidth?
                 \_ I don't think anyone wants to cut people off the net,
                    but providing a certain amount of "free" service, and
                    charging if you go over a certain amount of traffic, is
                    probably a tenable model.  Buying bandwidth indefinitely
                    so kids can fill it up with more kazaa is untenable. -tom
                    \_Just raise tuiton. Make net access a line item that
                    people can elect not to pay for if they don't need it.
                        \_ "Every complex problem has a solution that's
                            simple, elegant, and won't work."  -tom
                            \_ isn that ken lindahl's or msinatra's quote?
                               \- Why doesnt "disallow P2P except on certain
                               subnets/via prior arragement" [say for people
                               using gnutella for collaboration or maybe some-
                               body in cs doing something researchy] solve the
                               problem as long as someone in the dorms can
                               get their own isp access [i am not sure if this
                               is possible]. are students on the dormnet
                               allowed to run WEEB servers? yes, a lot of the
                               http is garbage but you have to attack what is
                               viable and cost-effective. the comment about
                               running the p2p server on port 80 to "hide" is
                               not a real issue. at least with napster,
                               gnutella, kazza, we can detect it on any port
                               [although not in real time, although that doesnt
                               seem important]. Also, the TotC comparison isnt
                               quite right since the Commons is a natural
                               endowment while bandwidth is sort of a "weakly-
                               rival" good paid for by somebody. Say I build a
                               lighthouse for my shipping company along my
                               shipping lane. I dont care if some people use
                               my lighthouses, however if this makes for "my
                               shipping lanes" too crowded for me to use,
                               well, i'd be better off switching technologies.
                               it seems like if you throttled the dormnet
                               traffic onto the routed internet but allowed
                               significant bandwidth to campus, people could
                               do their school work. [i assume most of the
                               p2p sharing isnt local]. --psb
                               [the lighthouse example is a little off because
                               it is not a divisible but a binary good but that
                               wasnt the point i was getting at. someone does
                               own the bandwidth].
                                \_ dorm traffic is already handled under
                                   a separate cap.  You can do things to
                                   discourage P2P sharing, but that only
                                   solves 25% of your problem, and the
                                   more you discourage it, the more incentive
                                   there is to find ways around it.  -tom
        \_ MOTD WANKERY!  None of you people are in position to do anything.
           \_ actually, I am.  -tom
             \_ A chill falls across the room...
           \_ wanking is precisely what they are in the position to do.

1/22    The problems with the Cory/Soda networks seems to be pretty
        widespread throughout campus.  Is the routing being handled by
        monkeys or something?  It's soooooooooooooo slooooooooooooooooooow.
        \_ Since about a week-and-a-half ago, the campus has been hitting
           its bandwidth cap on its link to the commodity Internet
           (70 megabits/sec).  About half of the traffic is kazaa/gnutella.
           CNS and the chancellors are trying to decide what to do about it.
                -tom
           \_ So when did this bandwidth cap start, and why didn't CNS
              announce it in http://ucb.net.announce like they do all other service
              interruptions?  This reminds me of when then initiated the
              cap on the dorms and wouldn't tell Residential Computing what
              the "problem" was for 2 days.  -mikeh
                \_ The bandwidth cap has been in place since our OC12 was
                   installed--it's only recently been hit.  70 megabits/sec
                   is all the campus is paying for.  "bandwidth cap" is
                   somewhat misleading; we're talking about the size of
                   our pipe.  It wouldn't be any different than if we had
                   a 70 megabit/sec pipe.  Our current hardware connection,
                   if we let traffic run up to it, would give us about another
                   15 megabits, at a cost of $4500/month. -tom
           \_ That's easy.  Cut off the fucking dorms from anything but a web
              proxy/cache and locally hosted email.
                \_ "Every problem has a solution that's simple, elegant, and
                   won't work."  The dorms are already limited to a separate
                   40-megabit cap.  -tom
                   \_ So total campus bandwidth is 110?  Ok, ban it and start
                      executing p2p users.  It's all theft anyway.
                      \_ Bandwidth to the commodity net.  Internet 2 traffic
                         is not capped, or tapped out at this point.  (I think
                         our pipe is something like 650 megabits).  -tom
                      \_ just cut off their mouse hand.
                         \_ And in other news, masturbation drops 80% on
                            campus, survey says.
           \_ 70mb/sec =~ 8.7MB/sec?
        \_ So the 400ms+ ping roundtrip times are the result of a
           bandwidth cap?
           \_ they are the result of us hitting the limit of the bandwidth
              we are paying for, yes.  -tom
        \_ I suggest taking this to http://ucb.net.discussion

1/13    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/13/edlife/13BAND.html?pagewanted=print
        The article mentions 'Direct Connect.'  What other file sharing
        programs are in use these days besides this and Morpheus and other
        FastTrack variants.  Any CSUA members in the dorms or otherwise with big
        pipes care to comment?
        \_ irc
        \_ yeah, I've got a big pipe for ya
        \_ http://vadim.berkeley.edu
           \_ hi paolo!
           \_ nice going vadim, taking scheme.xcf.berkeley and changing it to
              vadim.berkeley. fucking tactless egomaniac.
                \_ I thought the useless xcf was shut down years ago?  -alum
                   \_ It was.  It has become... the Vadim Computing
                      Facility.
                      \_ This is probably funny but I don't know who Vadim is
                         or the current xcf situation.  Is it dead or what?
                         \_ Not dead.  There's one member.
                            \_ Just using your powers of deduction, see if you
                               can infer what that one member's name is.
         \_ check http://zeropaid.com for an extensive listing of file sharing
            prorams.   -- jj
        \_ the Dec207 warez club!
        \_ The dorms don't have a big pipe anymore.  They're collectively
           limited to ~20Mbit.  That's 4,000+ hosts.  UCB dorm net is pretty
           much useless these days.  Residents keep trying to get DSL
           installed because it's faster.
           \_ Buncha whiners.  I felt lucky to have 14.4 access after I got
              access to the staff/professor modem bank and off the busy and
              broken 1200-9600 student bank.  Doing classwork on campus was
              better anyway.  Easily block remote connections to your
              workstation and keep all those other pesky students dialing in
              at 2400 on some other machine.
              \_ in my day, we used smoke signals.  on a clear day with a
                 small enough wind we could get ten bits per minutes, and
                 we were damn pleased with that.
                 \_ They allowed you to have smoke?  And you knew what the sun
                    looked like?  And wind?  You had wind?? You must be new
                    around here....
           \_ Petition them to increase the size of the big pipe.  This is
              not 1991 anymore, when I spent big bucks to upgrade to a 9600
              modem.
                \_ The problem with the dorms is that they'll use (for napster
                   clones, mostly) all the bandwidth you'll give them, and the
                   campus pays for bandwidth used to the commodity net.  Dorm
                   traffic isn't limited if it goes over Internet 2.  -tom
                   \_ Cool.  Now they just need a multi-campus I2 p2p thing
                      going and they're set.  I've got this idea for a business
                      model... I just need $325m in funding now....
                   \_ Two words: traffic shaping.  Eliminate this bandwidth
                      cap bullshit, and use traffic shaping to limit obscene
                      traffic caused by p2p filesharing apps.  Dorm net
                      becomes useable again.
                        \_ A few more words: apathy, money, unimportant.  It
                           isn't worth anyone's time to fix the dorm net
                           situation.  Who cares?  Let them eat cake!  Is
                           there a minimum bandwidth promised or an SLA in
                           the current dorm contract?  Do people *really*
                           choose the dorms because they have net?  Was the
                           <DEAD>dorm.net<DEAD> the deciding factor for anyone's living
                           arrangement?  If so they need to get over it.
                        \_ Clearly, that's the way campus wants to go, but
                           it's rather difficult in our environment.  -tom
           \_ that's 20Mbit to off campus.

1/3     http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23532.html is something you
        want to read if you're a grokster/kazaa/whatever user.

12/30   is it just me, or is kazaa empty right now?  did those busts actually
        kill it?
        \_ or maybe it's because most college kids are at home during winter
           break?
        \_ Those busts have nothing to do with the gutter-warez you find on
           Kazaa. They busted a wholly higher-class of warez-hosers.
           \_ DoD hadn't put out anything of note in 18 months.  They didn't
              bust anyone important to the scene.
              \_ They will never bust the most cruical warez ring and that
                 is the casual copier. They can never stop someone from copying
                 office from work or giving a copy of the latest game to thier
                 pals so that they can have a lan party.
                    visiting a warez page be illegal?  conspiracy charges?
                    please.
        \_ Is it illegal to visit warez web sites?
           \_ why would it be?
              \_ because warez is illegal?
                       own use and linking to computers software will be
                 \_ downloading or distributing warez is illegal.  why would
                    visiting a warez page be?  conspiracy charges?  please.
                          original. - Bill G.
                       \_ that's surfing with intent to download! Better
                          plead no contest and ask for leniency from the
                          judge.
                    \_ How do you legally distinguish mere surfing and
                       downloading?  Afterall all these packets of warez
                       coming to your computer is an act by another computer
                       while surfing and clicking on links is your action.
                    \_ yeah... that's just stupid.. i mean, next thing you
                       know, making copies of stuff you already own for your
                       own use and linking to computer software will be
                       illegal...
                       \_ You shouldn't make copies, you should buy a spare
                          original. Kids these days with thier Linux/Open
                          Sources/Free Software. They make me sick. - Bill G.
                          \_ YEAH!  FUCK FAIR USE.  FUCKING CONSTITUTION!
                             FUCKING US CODE!! - Mini-Bill-Me
                             \_ You napster, gnutella, audio galaxy and kaaza
                                junkies don't know what "fair use" means.
                                Fair use means that you have the right to
                                listen to your original cd in your stereo
                                and your car. It doesn't mean you can make a
                                copy for your friends and it certainly doesn't
                                mean that you can make a near-perfect digital
                                copy that can be re-distribute illegally to
                                strangers via the internet. Now you kids need
                                to stop illegally copying music, movies and
                                software and start buying it. Otherwise all
                                the poor artists will have to go back to a
                                career in food service and start suffering
                                for thier art and we won't be able to make
                                the kind of money that is necessary in order
                                to maintain our land rovers, our pacific
                                palasides bungalows and our all armani,
                                versace and bally wardrobes. - RIAA
                                \_ Start paying the artists instead of
                                   keeping all the money yourself and
                                   I'll consider it.
                                \_ Strange thing is that all my artist friends
                                   are already on the verge of waiting tables
                                   although in terms of art it is the likes
                                   of Britney who should be in the personal
                                   service business.

10/11   http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7479309.html?tag=mn_hd
        it is so obvious what the media-content industry is trying
        to do now.
        \_ It is?  What?

8/29    How much bandwidth do the units/ckc/foothill get to campus?
        \_ use bing
           \_ very inaccurate.
        \_ In 1998 the network in the dorms was 10Mbit/shared, though, the
           aggregate pipe to the campus net could have been faster than that.
           Still, I felt like it was faster than I needed. I loved it.
        \_ My brother was telling me that the dorms now have switched 100Mbit
           in every room and that the outbound traffic is rate-limited to
           30 MBit (2/3 of a T3).
           \- didnt they rate limit napster and seti when they were the top two
           things coming into berkeley? i think the "solved" the napster
           problem by rate limiting the dorm connection and "solved" the seti
           problem by geeting ona diff net in the long term. you can probably
           measure this quite accurately if you have an account in http://berkeley.edu
           and some knowledge of a reasonable host in the dormnet with
           pathchar. <much technical disclaimers and discussion and bagging
           on half-assed bw measurement tools deleted> --psb
           \_ pathchar: icmp socket: Operation not permitted
              \- well obviously like ping, suid.

7/23    Where do you get your mp3s/warez/p0rn?
        napster
        morpheus        .
        kazaa
        gnutella
          limewire      .
          bearshare
        usenet
        tom's mom       .
        edonkey2000
        audiogalaxy
        \_ maybe if they clean up their navigation..
        (other)

7/23    Where do you get your mp3s/warez/p0rn?
        napster
        morpheus        .
        kazaa
        gnutella
          limewire
          bearshare
        usenet
        (other)

7/12    I'm curious about this latest Napster shindig. How is Napster's
        situation so different from webspace providers? You can find copyrighted
        material on those personal web page sites often, although the provider
        generally cancels their account (i presume once someone notifies them
        of the breach of TOS). Similarly with the myspace/idrive/freedrive
        places that all went broke. So why can't Napster just require an
        email address for ID like the other things, and if you have copyrighted
        stuff then your account is cancelled?

2/12    Napster opinion posted here:
        http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~reeser/napster.html
        (reserved for educational purposes only)

2/12    If any of you are worried about a Napster blackout, checkout
        imesh at http://www.imesh.com/download  !
        \_ The judge ruled against them?  I didn't see that anywhere.
        \_ boycott metallica. They are the cause and the cry babies.
         make em poor.
           \_ What I don't understand about this whole napster business
              is that closing down napster just makes it harder for
              people sharing completely legal (or at least copyright
              expired material).
              \_ Do you have a point or are you just an idiot?
           \_ Bow to leper messiah.

7/26    Judge shuts down napster THIS FRIDAY:
        http://www.msnbc.com/news/437532.asp
        \_ BoyCott Riaa. http://www.boycottriaa.com
        \_ FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
             Lars Ulrich, you are a dead man.....
        \_ Napster bad!
           \_ Bread good!
           \_ Beer foamy!
                \_ Lars Ulrich, after listening to a bunch of
                   executives, CEO of napster, president of America online,
                   and many lawyers at the Napster hearing, "Uhh, i dont know
                   what these guys are talking about, but all I can say is that
                   because of Napster, my wallet is thinner." lars ulrich,
                   youre a fag.
                      \_ Bands signed to the major labels make most of their
                         money from touring anyway, so when are they going
                         to come to the realization that the RIAA is only in
                         it for themselves?
                                \_ this is complete bullshit.  -tom
                                   \_Hello!!  Once an artist signs to a label,
                                     the label owns all of the work done for
                                     that contract, and until recently the
                                     artist had to wait 25+ years to buy
                                     the rights back to their own songs.
                                \_ uh, yes, so?  Almost no one makes money
                                   touring; there are maybe 10 acts who draw
                                   enough to make significant money.  The
                                   label PAYS the artist for their rights.
                                   -tom
                      \_ He's smart enough to see the writting on the wall.
                         MP3 is forcing him to get a real job and he doesn't
                         want to go back to food service.
                         \_ I read tha the used to be a "junior tennis
                            hotshot."  Maybe he can go and coach at some
                            shitty high school or something.
                   \_ Umm, you are a moron.  Lars was one of the few people
                      who actually made sense, with the very simple (even you
                      should be able to understand) "It's mine i should be
                      allowed to say how it is DISTRIBUTED" Everyone else
                     (on both sides of this issue) is proving themselves
                     to be complete idiots.
                        \_ either you are a bitch, or a pussy-dickless man
                     \_ Information (all kinds) wants to be free!
                     \_ What about fair use? If I bought the tape, can I
                        download the song? What if bought the cd and
                        it got stolen, under fair use I could still listen
                        to a copy of the cd. The same is true for copies
                        that you listen to in your car. You don't have to
                        buy one for home and one for your car. Well, how is
                        mp3 different? If I purchased the song in some format,
                        I should be able to use it any format.
                         \_ boy, this is what i mean about everyone being stupid
                            1.)   yes, if you bought the tape you MAY download
                               the song. You man NOT *SHARE* it by running
                               a SERVER (which napster IS) on your computer
                               which is effectively redistributing it against
                               any reasonable interp. of intellect. prop. laws
                            2.) I am (i don't know why) surprised that anyone
                               here is SO FUCKING STUPID as to think the
"tape copy" analogy is valid or in any way relates to this issue.  That
moron from napster tried to say the same thing. Nobody is trying to say
MP3's should be illegal or that you shouldn't be able to port them
around.  It is the DISTIBUTION (i capitalize the word AGAIN for those of
you who are comprehesion impaired) that is the issue.
                            3.)  Let me help you children out, since you and
(i repeat myself) everyone who talks about this can't seem to make a
reasonable arguement:  Napster is doing nothing illegal and should be left
alone because all they are doing is providing a tool and information. They
are not doing the broadcasting or the illegal downloading.  You people (and,
of course, me) are.  Why can't you just steal and live with it instead of
trying to convince yourself that it isn't stealing because "information
wants to be free man" or some other bullshit. -bitch
        \_ Is this the first step in the RIAA's plan to ban MP3s? Well, if MP3s
           are outlawed then onwly outlaws will have MP3s and they will share
           them using strong encryption.
                \_ fuck all of them : <DEAD>www.napigator.com<DEAD>
                and opensource napster : http://opennap.sourceforge.net
                    \_ FIGHT THE POWER!!! CRITICAL MASS TOMORROW!!!!!
                        \_ despite your sarcasm, yes fight the power

7/26    Judge shutdowns napster: http://www.msnbc.com/news/437532.asp
        \_ Napster bad!

7/3     motd vaporized
        \_ You bit buster, you.
           \_ Reduce, reuse, recycle
              \_ Hey baby, I'll show you my bits if you show me yours.
                \_ I saw yours in kindergarten.  Wasn't that big a deal.
                \_ Is bit-sharing safe?
                   \_ If done correctly it can be safer.  Bit sharing is never
                      100% safe.
                        \_ if your bit is private, then it is 100% safe.
                           But if it is protected then it is only 98% safe.
                           Public bit not safe at all.
           \_ Byte my bits.

5/25    set lARS Ulrich on Napster fire.
        http://slashdot.org/interviews/00/05/26/1251220.shtml
        \_ English speak go need you to school good yes?
           \_ which part of his simple sentence confused your
              fancy book-learned little head?
           \_ i think what he means is that guy just sounds dumb.  he starts
             off ok but then starts rambling a bit in fragments, and starting
             one sentence and then jumping to another. DUHeeeeeeerrrrr!:

        Lars trying to speak (typical sentence):

           I  mean, I can just barely ...
           I know how to get onto AOL, and I will say
           that I have used AOL a couple of times to check some hockey scores.

        Lars trying to speak again

          And I believe, and the people that we talk to about this, we believe,
          that the minute some of these companies become active,
          when they basically come to a point that they become fully
          funcitonal, we believe that there will be technology and a
          way to go after them in the way they can invent this technology
          and make it untraceable. We believe that as quickly as
          they can make it untraceable And I believe, and the people that
          we believe that you can find a way to fuck with it, and we
          have already heard about different ways of doing that.
          So I think it's clear that there is nothing that
          people can talk about for the future that becomes bulletproof.

        I can see what he's trying, but man, it's damn ugly grammatically...

        \_ People, give Lars a break.  Drug induced coma in which he likely
           spends most of his time aside, most people don't speak in complete
           grammatical sentences in everyday speech, and this interview is
           an unedited transcript of a phone interview.  -- ilyas
                \_ Tell us of the stars....
                \_ Yeah, he's lucky he can use a phone.  Imagine if he had
                   tried to type this up on his AOL account.  And uhm, no, I
                   don't really understand where he's trying to go when he
                   talks about the future and untraceable technology.  I'm
                   not sufficiently drugged to enter his zone of understanding.

        LARS IS A DRUMMER.  Other than dpetrou, how many rock drummers
        do you know who have any brains?
        \_ Hi, Paolo

4/27    What is Gnutella?
        \_ One of several open source napster clones.  I believe it also
           doesn't rely on a central set of servers (like Napster) to archive
           information about what's where.  -John
           \_ It's not exactly a napster clone in that it doesn't use the
              same protocol as Napster and it's not just for trading
              mp3s; but the idea is similar.
              It was created by some people at Nullsoft (the WinAmp people),
              but when they released a public beta and their new bosses
              at AOL/TimeWarner found out, they told them to shut it
              down. Last I checked, the "official" Gnutella site is still
              out of commission.  Try: http://www.gnutella.co.uk
        \_ Gnu's implementation of Nutella
        \_ Random musing - does Napster keep any log of connections? When
           then get shut down some day, will the music industry be able to
           get a lot of all the music I've grabbed through them?  Will the
           volume be too high in general for individuals to get busted?
             \_ Why don't you just pay for your damn music? - musician
                \_ Because of inadequate purchasing options - if I was
                   allowed to easily evaluate music before purchasing,
                   and able to buy on a basis of exactly what I wanted to
                   buy (i.e. song-by-song basis), I would be *happy* to
                   support the musicians.  I am not willing to support the
                   leech of the music industry, however.  Same goes for the
                   film industry, once bandwidth is sufficient to pirate
                   movies.  Why can BMG sell discs so cheaply?  Why are
                   CDs more expensive than the more-expensive-to-make audio
                   cassettes?  The industry sucks.
                        \_ uh, it's called "supply and demand".
                           Rationalize all you want, but if it becomes
                           impossible to make money selling CD's/movies,
                           people will stop doing it.  -tom
                           \_ I trust in human ingenuity.  People will
                              adapt to another model in which they can
                              still make money and music/art.
                           \_ uh, it's hard to make money when everyone
                              steals your product, you selfish moron.  -tom
                              \_ What about concerts?  Playing in clubs?
                        \_ A typical band playing in a typical club
                           will cover the cost of their dinner and not
                           much more.  The only thing that brings performers
                           into big arenas to make big money is MASSIVE
                           RECORD COMPANY PROMOTION.  Self-promoted bands
                           do not make money touring.  -tom
\_ In general, the volume will be too high to bust individuals.
                However, in your case, they will somehow get back to you at
                which point you will get arrested and have to call sky to
                bust you out.
        \_ Lately, running BSD nap on soda, I always get error connecting
        socket. Is this purposeful on soda/berkeley's part, or is this
        some temporary snafu, or what?