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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2018/07/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2001/5/31-6/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21396 Activity:very high
5/31    I'm looking for a good page on benchmark between FreeBSD 4.1 and Linux
        2.4.  Everything from networking to file access.  Please do not troll
        this post.  I just want a URL.  Not a pissing war.  Thanks.
        \_  oh, come on.  You're either trolling or an idiot, or more likeley
            \_ I bet the troll above can spell better than you can, troll.
               \_ you don't know what a troll is, idiot.
                  \_ and i can piss hotter than your weak-ass flame, troll.
                  \_ He is a trolley good fellow.
2001/5/22-23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21325 Activity:nil
5/22    Anyone using NetBSD 1.5 on a Sun4m? If so how did you install?
           \_ This is not true. Linux might be a EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL OS,
              BS most certainly is not.
2001/5/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21224 Activity:nil
5/9     I'm having trouble getting vi on OpenBSD to load .exrc/.virc.
        Anyone have a similar experience?
        \_ Make sure you do not have an $EXINIT or $NEXINIT environment
           variable set.
           \_ Thanks!  I think that worked.
2001/5/8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21210 Activity:nil
5/8     is there somewhere I can d/l FreeBSD CD images?
           \_ yes, I'm an idiot.  thanks.  I don't know why I didn't see the
              images before.
2001/5/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21157 Activity:very high
4/30    OpenBSD disk access is about 40% to 100% slower on an IDE disk
        on a 733 MHz PC than when it was running Linux.  Is this normal?
        -OpenBSD newbie
        \_ Do you honestly think you're going to get a straight answer
           on the motd?
           \_ I'm hoping the OpenBSD sysadmins are anal enough to know.
        \_ I run my openbsd box on a system so old I wouldn't notice a slow
           down anyway.  Sorry.
        \_ Do you have softupdates turned on?
        \_ Do you have softupdates turned on? If not give it a shot it
           or other correctly.
           \_ wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: <IBM-DPTA-372050>
              wd0: can use 32-bit, PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 2
              wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 19574MB, 16383 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec,
                   40088160 sectors
           should improve your performance.
           Check dmesg, see if it detects your drive as a UDMA something
           or other correctly. If it doesn't you can try to turn it on
           as follows:
           As noted below, OpenBSD does not use the unsafe L1N SUX
           style async mounts (please see 11.5 in the OpenBSD faq for
           info on why they are not used). You can turn them on if you
           are willing to sacrifice reliability for speed.
        \_ is this for read or write?  linux defaults to async mounts
2018/07/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2001/4/30-5/1 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21147 Activity:high
4/30    And you though OpenBSD was strict about long hard to
        forge passwords:
        \_ And the fun part is what happens when your admin account hits
           this fun little bug and you can't login to run the patch? FUCKED.
        \_ 03/08/2001  06:43p  5.0.2195.3351  331,536  Msgina.dll
           Software named after an SO?
           \_ Maybe but GINA actually stands for something.  This isn't to
              say some random MS lackey didn't come up with something to fit
              the letters though.
              \_ Global Integer Non-Assigned for those of you who
                 don't speak hungarian
                 \_ Thanks.  I was too lazy to look it up but I'm sure it was
                    on google.
2001/4/25 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21095 Activity:high 50%like:22658
4/24    what's up with putting linux ISOs on Soda???
        \_ D00D GN00/11NSUX RUL3Z! 50D4 W111 500N B3 RUNN1NG 11NSUX!
        \_ um, just because _you_ don't use linux, doesnt mean other
           people don't use it either.  afaict, the .isos are on
  (not soda) - if there
           are any other iso's floating around these aren't the ones
           i put up - paolo
           \_ why'd you pick red hat and not, say, Mandrake 8?
              and why not a FreeBSD download?
              \_ 4.3, redhat, debian, slack are there.  mandrake upcoming.
                 - paolo.
                 \_ Why is soda wasting disk space on this 11NSUX crap?
                    If we have all this "disk space" lying around increase
                    the damn quotas to 100 MB or something.
                 \_ How about mirroring OpenBSD as well? Some of us use
                    real OSes not this toy crap you are talking about.
                    \_ try v4d1m claims to have
                       it mirrored there.  I leave it to you, the obsd
                       afficionado to check for yourself - paolo.
                       \_ man, you don't spell so good.
                       \_ what is the url for the mirror page?
              \_ because despite mikeh's work for the csua in making
                 freebsd available and advertising this to the vp, the
                 vp doesnt care about anything that isnt what the vp runs.
                 \_ the vp will run what the vp believes is best for the CURRENT
                    interests of the UNDERGRADS in CS/EECS to run. Needless
                    to say, the fact that the machine in question is
                    being actively used by 162 and research code now,
                    whereas is was unused before, proves my point.  Seriously
                    guys, you guys are alums (mikeh included).  You have
                    your own boxes at work or at home, which are much
                    more powerful than ours.  Why begrudge a current students
                    their choice in OSes, for the projects that they want to
                    work on? - paolo
                 \_ soda will be converted to linux eventually, probably
                    redhat too.
                    \_ Bad troll, bad.
                 \_ um. there is a 4.3-install iso on there, You know
                    what?  if you have an issue with my work, email me,
                    Anonymous complaints will be ignored.
                    - paolo
2001/4/25 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:21094 Activity:nil
4/24    Any ideas what's up with <DEAD><DEAD>? Seems to be down
        for several days now.
        \_ It's down.
           \_ Did their FreeBSD server crash after some many Linux ISO
              downloads or what?
2001/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20961 Activity:low
4/12    So I've read a little bit about a major security problem in
        ipf/ipnat. Is this a big problem? If so, what versions are
        affected (ie is OpenBSD 2.8 vulnerable?)
        \_ outside of:
           \_ What I don't understand is how someone can use this
              to access my box. Yeah it seems like a problem but
              can't I just turn on don't fragment and be safe with
              and older version.
                \_ Upgrading is good for you.
2001/4/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20882 Activity:nil
3/31    Trying to install some games on FreeBSD4.2  I installed SDL 1.0.8,
        & 1.1.6-devel from ports, and 1.2 from source; I've run
        ldconfig -R, and a 'configure' script STILL reports that it can't
        find the SDL library.  What am I doing wrong?
2001/3/19-20 [Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20849 Activity:high
3/19    galen, shower or you are doomed to die cold and alone
        \_ Of course, if you do shower, and the water heater craps out
           and causes a heart attack, you could die cold, alone, and wet.
        \_ cut him some slack he was working on the filesystem stuff for bsd
           on something that actually would be cool - paolo
           \_ And a shower would cause all code to be dumped to /dev/null?
              "I'm hacking so I can't behave like I'm not a barbarian" is
              the lamest nerdy shit I've ever heard.  Go shower.  The computer
              will still be there, and you might actually get a date and find
              out women are in full 3d.
              \_ Wo-men? I'm sorry, I don't think that word is in my
2001/3/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20792 Activity:low
3/14    Harvey supposedly did 162 in BSD a while back. I've heard
        everything from it being spectacular to it being a complete
        disaster.  Does anyone still have copies of the project
        assignments for that class (and lecture notes)?
        \_ Yes, I do.
2001/3/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:20735 Activity:low
3/8     I'm trying to get my printer working, but every time I try
        writing to /dev/lpt0 I get a "device busy" error.  Is there any
        way to figure out what might have a hold on the device?
        \_ Some printers only work under Windows.
           \_ I think what you mean to say is, some (free) Unixes do not
              choose to support some printers, for one reason or another.
        \_ The printer is a Panasonic KX-PS600 that supports both GDI
           (Windows) and HP's PCL. I'm running FreeBSD.
        \_ echo a ^L or some ascii to the device and see what happens.
          \_ Read the post, dumbass.  He can't write to the device.
                \_ The post there now is not the post that was there before.
                   I can't help it if someone edits the shit after I've posted.
                   If you weren't stupid you might note the other posts above
                   answer along the same lines.  Thank you for trying though.
                   It's really cute when you use big words like "dumbass" yet
                   don't provide any useful hints or information yourself.
                   \_ "dumbass" is not a big word, dumbass.
                      "antidisestablishmentarianism" is a big word. "dumbass" is
        \_ if freebsd, try lptcontrol -p.  -dpetrou
        \_ lsof
2001/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20733 Activity:nil
3/8     What are the performance implications, if any, of running linux
        binaries on BSD?
        \_ There's a FAQ on this, but the short of it is "they might run
           faster, they might run slower, you might not notice a difference,
           YMMV."  Note that this isn't a "production quality" solution even
           if the shit seems to run ok.
           \_ And running them natively on linux is "production quality"?
2001/2/23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20656 Activity:nil
2/22    I know network performance of FreeBSD is better than Linux.  But what
        about FreeBSD vs NetBSD?  Any differences?  Do they use the same
        stack?  I've pretty much decided on *BSD for my firewall/nat/dns box.
        \_ dont forget openbsd!
        \_ All the stacks for *BSD came from the same place (Cal, in case
           you can't put two and two together). They have been modified
           by the developers of the different BSD projects but all in all
           *BSDs feature the best non-propreitary stack (BSD/OS and Solaris
           are rumored to have better ones (multithreaded)).
           FreeBSD is rumored to have the fastest and most stable stack
           but new hardware support is said to be hard to add. Juniper
           used FreeBSD (a heavily modified version) in most of thier
           routers/switches. The actually routing/switching is done by
           asics, but some of the protocols are run on FreeBSD.
           Riverstone used NetBSD because they found it much easier to
           add support for fiber interfaces and to strip out unneeded
           kernel features. (In care you haven't heard of Riverstone,
           they power all the switches between Nasa Ames, the bay area's
           primary distribution point and Mae West).
           I don't know of any network vendors using OpenBSD. But I
           would highly recommend it for firewall/nat/dns because it
           is probably the most secure OS on the planet. I run it for
           my firewall/nat box.
2001/2/13 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:20579 Activity:nil
2/12    We're Windoze weenies running Win2K for web serving, SMTP, and
        file serving.  We would like to put either OpenBSD or Red Hat
        Linux up and slowly migrate services here, including backup.
        The argument for OpenBSD is that, as newbies, we're less prone
        to suffer for security holes.  The argument for Red Hat is that
        it's widely supported, and we should learn how to secure it
        day by day anyway.  When all is said and done, which is
        better for our purposes?
        \_ I would run OpenBSD for SMTP and file sharing (I'm assuming
           you want SAMBA, but if you want NFS, OpenBSD supports v3,
           unlike LinSUX). You would probably be better off running
           LinSUX for web serving, since you can get nifty cool web
           stuff like PHP, ASP (yes M$ ASP is available on Linux,
           via a company called ChiliSoft AKA Cobalt AKA Sun), JSP,
           Servlets, FrontPage Extensions, etc. to run on LinSUX much
           easier than *BSD and Solaris.
           If you want a dedicated web serving appliance with LinSUX
           take a look at the Cobalt (AKA Sun) RaQ3/4, they are pretty
           cheap and do web stuff pretty well (all that nifty web stuff
           is pre-installed and configured (except JSP & Servlets) on
           the RaQs).
2001/2/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20561 Activity:nil
2/9     I'm trying to get printing working under FreeBSD 4.2
        The handbook tells me to use
        lptcontrol -[ip] for Interrupt or Polled communication, but every
        time I try lptcontrol, it says "Device Busy".  I tried reconfiging
        the kernel, but I've already got "device lpt" in there and the
        suggested addition
        device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 8 vector lptintr
        is rejected as invalid.  I'm using a parallel port PCL-compatible
        printer, and I can't find any resources on the net as to how to
        troubleshoot this (google, deja, altavista, freebsd,
        linuxprinting...)  Where else can I check?
2001/2/9-10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20551 Activity:moderate
2/9     I'm Trying to add sound to FreeBSD 4.2- the handbook says that
        I have to check /dev/sndstat after recompiling and rebooting for
FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm) Sep 21 2000 18:29:53
Installed devices:
pcm0: <Aureal Vortex 8830> at memory 0xfeb40000 irq 5 (4p/1r +channels duplex)
        /dev/sndstat doesn't exist, but the pcm0 ID does show up in dmesg.
        man pages for sndstat are nil, what do I do?
        \_ cd /dev && ./MAKEDEV snd0
        \_ Thanks, I just skipped ahead and did that.  Now how do I mount a
        CDROM drive full of mp3s?
           \_ mkdir /mnt/cd && mount /dev/acd0c /mnt/cd
        \ I got an incorrect superblock doing that.
                mount_cd9660 /dev/acd0c /mnt/cd did work though.  Thx
          \_ mount -t cd9660 blahblahblah
2001/2/6-8/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:20502 Activity:nil 57%like:22027
FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE (MKVI) #0: Thu Feb  1 03:41:03 PST 2001

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2001/1/17-19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20347 Activity:high
01/17   Stop nuking the motd.  I am looking for for any materials on
        OS and kernel architecture--preferably something online like
        course lecture notes or handouts, doesn't matter how theoretical
        or practical.  I have a friend who's interested in Unix (and
        other) OS design, and am hoping one of you folks can maybe
        give me some pointers in this direction.  -John
        \_ It's not online but The Design and Implementation of 4.4
           BSD is supposed to be a good book. For online papers you
           can do searches at and hunt down
           the actual PDF yourself.
           \_ Thank you!  Duly passed on.  -John
           \_ I saw this book listed as req'd for 162.  Are they using BSD
              for projects or are they still with NachOS?

              \_ Was that this semester? bh taught it one semester with
                 BSD, and the book was required then. AFAIK, they haven't
                 done that again since. -bz
                 \_ From everything I've heard, it's *REALLY* unlikely that
                    they'll ever do it again...    -mice
        \_ if they want any more current stuff, check out papers online
           for spin-os (u washington) and exokernel (mit).
        \_ For practical, there's a new Solaris Kernel Internals book out
           from SunSoft press that gives excellent descriptions of Solaris's
           VM, filesystems, etc.  (Say what you want - Sun must have done
           something right, since even Linux has modeled parts of their kernel
           on Sun's work.)
           \_ Who is the author?
                \_ Mauro & McDougall
           \_ "Even Linux."  Are you trolling?
                \_ No one trolls the motd.  Are *you* trolling?
           \_ Linux's VM sucks big donkey dick
              \_ Well, there's a very persuasive argument.
              \_ Probably cuz you booted up without a filesystem.
                        \_ It was a linux box.  I didn't need a filesystem.
                           I store my files on something stable.
2001/1/15-16 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20321 Activity:high
1/15    Want to make some quick consulting cash? Must have experience
        implementing WindowsNT VPN (PPTP) through a FreeBSD firewall. -- Marco
        \_ no, we prefer the very slow consulting cash where we can sap as much
           of your money as possible
           \_ You have been abused by the motd formatting god.
2000/12/22-25 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20163 Activity:very high
12/22   Why does last output show most connecting from IP instead of hostname?
        \_ because FreeBSD is stupid.  -tom
           \_ because tom is stupid.  -FreeBSD
              \_ wait a minute. FreeBSD can't write.
           \_ How is it stupid, tom?  There's only so much room to store
              or display hostnames, I'd imagine.  If the hostname is longer
              than that when reversed, would you rather get
              "cx425.sanjose.a" or a real IP address that you could resolve
              \- tom lacks fu to "last | ip2hostname" --psb
                \_ It's stupid because every other system in the world uses
                   hostname there and truncates it to the length of the field.
                   Intelligent systems which want the full length use an
                   extended utmp/wtmp.  And if you're going to use IP's, it's
                   the height of stupidity to only use them some of the time.
                   \_ Reason #1 "it's stupid because other people truncate
                      so you have incomplete and invalid hostnames"  Uh..huh
                      Reason #2: it's stupid because... it's the height of
                      stupidity.  Good, tom.
                        \_ How about Reason #1, if you want to get the normal
                           output of last now you have to do hundreds of name
                           lookups.  Typical BSD arrogance, "who cares what
                           behavior people need or expect."  -tom
                           \_ OK, tom: would you rather have chopped off,
                              indecipherable hostnames (which is what _every
                              one_ of those ip addrs would be) or ip addresses
                              that you _could_ look up?
                                    \- if you need to do lookups, you do them,
                                       if you dont need to do them, you dont.
                                       you are right this does make life harder
                                       for low-fu people and might not be a
                                       good decision if your goal is to
                                       maximize the number of people using your
                                       OS. but there are other goals --psb
                                \_ I would rather have "last" be what it
                                   always has been, and provide an additional
                                   option for new functionality, instead of
                                   changing the default behavior which has
                                   existed for n years (n > 20).  In terms of
                                   functionality, I find soda's "last" to be
                                   far less useful than a typical "last",
klee             ttyAm    Fri Dec 22 19:45 - 19:46  (00:00)
                                   because the information I'm looking for
                                   is usually not a specific hostname.  -tom
        \_ So back to my question, why are some with IP and some hostname?
           What causes it to be diff? thank you.
           \_ Picking a few lines at random, we have:
mchowla          ttyAz    Fri Dec 22 19:47 - 19:50  (00:02)
samli            ttyAm    <DEAD><DEAD>   Fri Dec 22 19:47 - 20:02  (00:15)
              as you can see, if the hostname were much longer than
              "", it wouldn't fit and you'd have to chop it
              off..  let's say it was ""
              you'd see something like "" as the hostname,
              which completely useless.  Better to give the IP, where you could
              at least run something like "last | ip2hostname" and have all
              of the hostnames (if poorly formatted)
              \_ so basically, it's inconsistent behavior. Why not all IPs?
                 And why a 16 char limit? IP is 15 char max(for now).
                                      \- do you feel stuff reporting in 512b
                                         blocks and have done so for n>20yrs
                                         should comtinue to do so? --psb
                                   \_ I dunno, my feeling is that it is
                                      better to fix things than to have
                                      fundamentally broken stuff lay around
                                      forever along with alternate "fixed"
                                      ways of doing things.  (Ever tried to
                                      program the Windows API?  It fucking
                                      sucks, and this is exactly why.)  -blojo
                                      \_ Hear hear.  It's not like this
                                         is even some programming interface.
                                         How many critical cross platform
                                         apps do you know of that depend on
                                         the formatting of last?
                     \- tom, there are times where change is merited.
                     the chown was changed to user:group ...
                     i bitched about that till i realized it made sense.
                     "the rest of the world" doesnt do everthing right the
                     first time ... so its a good thing they dont have their
                     head up their ass and can look around and learn. --psb
        \_ Tom said it's stupid so it's stupid.  Why do you all waste his
           precious netrek time asking why?  He said so and that should be good
           enough for the likes of you!
        \_ this thread is priceless.  it brings a tear to my eye.
           \- "i am tom, hear me roar"
2000/12/12-13 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20086 Activity:high
12/12   Something happened to CSUA server again?  This morning I was
        unable to ssh in, I have to delete the known.hosts file to
        resolve the problem...
        \_ weird ssh problems this morning.  Looks like the tcp/80 forwarder
            to soda's sshd was getting web requests!
        \_ Me too!
           \_ if it's good enought for shell and ibm...
              \_ I guess ECC Ram and hot swap disks and scalable
                 processing just aren't what Shell Oil needs.
                 \_ maybe they asked for help and got turned off when
                    a freebsd user mouthed them off?
                    \_ they should have contacted an OpenBSD or
                       NetBSD user.
        \_ i've never had a weird problem with openssh, teraterm, putty, etc.
        \_ No problems with OpenSSH on *BSD (inlcuding MacOSX) or
           NiftyTelnet on MacOS.
                \_ openssh sucks.  We should install ssh 2.3.0.  -tom
                   \_ freebsd sucks.  we should install linux 2.2.17 -!tom
                      \_ it really does -!!tom
2000/12/6-7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:20021 Activity:nil
        \_ isn't UW where Andersen went?
                \_ Yeah, that's where the High Priest of NACHOS is
                   spreading his unholy gospel now.
        \_ nice.
           \_ didn't they do this at one time here?
              \_ bharvey taught it in bsd one semester.  it has not been
                 repeated, and repetitive begging and pleading did not sway
                 him into teaching it again (nor will it ever).  current OS
                 faculty adj worked with msft to get a grant for laptops for
                 his research, and has personally ported nachos over to win9x
                 so you know where his interests lie.
                 \_ and has explicitly stated to me yesterday that (1) there
                    will be NO laptops in 162 next semester and (2) the *nix
                    environment will without question still be supported no
                    matter what. -alexf
                        \_ you mean solaris, not unix.  There sure wasn't a
                           3.x freebsd port for it when I took the class,
                           and I think the Great Unnamed one has the only
                           working linux ports.  Fact of the matter is that
                           adj _spent_ time porting over nachos to windows,
                           to secure msft a foothold in the teaching curricula
                           in 162.  His intentions are clear.
                           \_ this is beside the point.  why are they using
                              nachos anyway? Obviously other universities have
                              no need for an abstraction layer between the
                              student and course material.
                              \_ stanford uses nachos, as does mit. Having
                                 worked on nachos I knew more about how a
                                 system works. look at the projects, they
                                 are jokes.
2000/12/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19991 Activity:nil
12/3    Does FreeBSD have any xti/tli support?  (or does Linux?)
        \_ xti/tli are dead.  Long live sockets!
2000/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19974 Activity:low
11/30   I'm having a problem running a toy pthreads program on FreeBSD. I ran
        strace on it and it looks like it exits after SIGUSR1 or SIGUSR2. The
        same program seems to run fine on (dare I say it) Linux. Any ideas?
        [why can't you not put source files in the motd?]
           \_ most people won't read it if its in a file.
        \_ Insert after the creates:

           pthread_join(thread1, NULL);
           pthread_join(thread2, NULL);

           I have no idea what I'm doing. -clueless-sodan
           \_ Yep, you definitely to somehow block so that the threads
              have time to execute.  Otherwise main() will just
              exit; whether or not it waits for threads to run to
              termination is implementation dependent.
              \_ Yeah, I just figured out that this is true. I guess
                 this is one other aspect where Linux tries to act
                 smart for you. The annoying thing is that I copied
                 the example right out of the pthreads book from Sun.
                 The Sun Press authors generally don't leave this sort
                 of thing out. (Yes the book is on pthreads, not solaris
        \_ Build with gcc -pthread?
           \_ I compiled with cc -g -Wall -pthread -o thread_test thread_test.c
              the two print_msg functions never get called.
              \_ Please follow the clueless-sodan's advice. -clueless-sodan
2000/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19969 Activity:very high
12/1    How come there's the anti-linux setiment on the motd?
        \_ Just your typical Berkeley not-invented-here syndrome. They're
           just a bunch of bitter fucks who can't stomach the idea that the
           orthodox BSD/Unix way, whether it was actually better or not,
           didn't win the hearts and minds of the modern Unix-like OS user
           base. If you want to drive the point home, ask your friendly
           neighborhood BSD advocate about installing on a laptop with
           cardbus support, or about the state of their USB subsystems given
           their vaunted bus/device tree autoconfiguration system, or about
           exactly which bloated userland they stole the compiler from.
           I ought to add that if you spend less time bitching about which
           tools you use and figuring out how to use the right tool for the
           job, instead, you will find this whole (meta-)discussion just as
           laughable as I do.
           \_ Look if I want USB, cardbus etc I'd go with a consumer OS
              like MacOS or M$. They do USB et al far better than LinSUX.
              And how about LinSUX's inability to change the speed and
              like MacOS or M$. They do USB et al far better than Linux.
              that fread,fwrite on LinSUX is *faster* than mmap()? Or
              how about lousy thread scheduling?
        \_ Cause LinSUX. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
              And how about Linux's inability to change the speed and
              duplex of a NIC without a reboot? And how about the fact
              \_ NT can change anything without a reboot?
              that fread,fwrite on Linux is *faster* than mmap()? Or
              how about lousy thread scheduling? Or threads having
              different process ids, which means that SIGCHLD won't
              always be recieved correctly? What about TCP/IP queue drops
              on 100 Full Duplex? I could go on...
              I have to code for Linux and its a pain to get things
              to run at the same efficiency they do on BSD or Solaris.
                \_ This is a bad argument.  BSD, while generally a cleaner
                   and more manageable OS, has catching up to do in some
                   areas (and vice versa, mind you.)  -John
                   \_ I could care less about USB support or KEWL 3D.
                      Adding this stuff won't help me get bits from
                      net to ram, ram to disk and visa versa any faster.
                      UNIX is not a toy, if you want a toy use M$ or MacOS
                      or Linux. I would have a more favorable view of
                      Linux if it wasn't so concentrated on being all things
                      to everyone.
        \_ Well, in the real world, things like hardware and software support
           actually matter.  Typical sysadmin snottiness.  For things other
           than pure server duties like web hosting or motd flamewars, Linux
           has a clear advantage and that's why it's more popular.  Try doing
           ASIC engineering using BSD, or anything related to multimedia.
           Linux is the one for "real work."  BSD is for academia and net
           servers.  -- !sysadmin
           \_ what an odd little response so early in the morning! i don't
              use bsd so i won't compare, but: linux kernel modules have
              allowed dynamic change of speed/duplex flags on NICs for
              at least the last 6 years; changing framesize for gig-E
              NICs doesn't even require a module reload... you can just
              ifconfig the thing while it remains up; my clustered code
              mmaps little files (around 1 MB each) and rips through a
              few 100 GB in read-once mode much faster than with fread's
              extra copies (i measured them back when i started doing
              \_ I don't know which NICS you are using, but I've got
                 IntelEtherExpress Pro 100s (which work great under
                 BSD) with most of the driver rewritten to avoid problems,
                 and I still see lots of collisions and frame errors
                 and so on under high load ~ 4000K/s to 6000K/s data
                 transfer on 100BaseT.
              application profiling); haven't had any problems with my
                 I'm using mmap() for speeding the transfer of small to
                 medium sized files (few hundred k to few meg), but under
                 Linux there is no advantage to using mmap(), its acutally
                 slower (probably because of the vm subsystem) than fread,
                 by an observable amount.
                 Loading and unloading modules requires the entire module
                 subsystem to be compiled in, which is a bunch of overhead
                 I don't need. I should not have to build the drivers as
                 modules and use some stupid modload hack in order to set
                 speed and duplex (ifconfig and the corresponding system
                 calls should handle this, which is true of real OSs).
        \_ Cause LinSUX. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
              portable threaded code, but ok if you say so; i routinely
              get 96 Mb/s duplex over 100baseT, about 178 Mb/s over
              dual-bonded 100baseT, and about 400 Mb/s over gig-E without
              jumbo frames... who cares if there were a few queue drops
              at that speed?  i'm not bagging bsd, just meritless
              knee-jerk criticism of something you apparently know
              little about.  -karlcz
        \_ Cause Linux. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
           a weak scheduler, a hacky filesystem, weak I/O, poorly written
           drivers and a bloated GNU userland. However its just good enough
           for most people, thus its popular.
           ISPs, small business, big business, like it cause its cheap to
           get a linux box and set it up and serve some web pages and some
           db stuff etc. Yeah you may not have the best possible performance,
           but the time to market is more important than performance in
           vast majority of cases.
           Alternatives are much more professional.
        \_ pragmatically, the sysadmin salary survey showed that a solaris
        admin made $3K  more than a typical Linux admin, and $4K more than
        a BSD admin.   To be fair, the BSD license is nice to money-minded
        programmers.  However, the usercommunity (just look at the above
        comments) of BSD really should approach things in a more user-helpful
        state.  A perfect piece of softwar with no users is not very useful-
        and you're not going to get new users if you berate them.  It's a
        problem of increasing returns - without a usercommunity you don't have
        hw support etc etc.
           \- why do you give a rats ass what other people think about your
           OS of choice [or editor or what tom thinks about how you spell
           ALGOR]. it's one thing to talk about technical merits or theoretical
           ideas. you do need to keep in mind "i think linux has more technical
           merit than fBSD" is not a technical discussion but an opinion/state-
           ment of preference. --psb
        \_ Nice flame bait, troll.  What the hell.  I'll bite.  I prefer *bsd
           because the system level config is more consistent.  Linux looks
           like a giant hack job with random shit thrown all over the disk
           in a half assed willy nilly style.  I don't like wasting my time
           relearning half the os everytime there's a patch or new version of
                           \_ I would Solaris to this as well. OSs that were
                              written in order to help people to actual WORK,
                              not sit around and play with transparent terms.
           everything.  I also don't buy into the "security through many eyes"
           thing.  Linux is just as buggy and insecure as a MS box and a large
           percentage of Linux users wouldn't know the difference.  MS makes a
           good office productivity tool for desktops.  It's ok if they need
           to reboot once or twice a day.  Linux makes a nice toy for people
           running a home box or who don't know what they're doing and need
           lots of help from their almost-as-clueless linux buddies.  *bsd is
           for people with work to get done.   -unix admin
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19968 Activity:insanely high 64%like:19965
11/30   I'm a little frustrated at how bloated FreeBSD is. Its almost like
        a RedHat Linux distribution. Is there a way to just install the kernel
        and a small portion of userland?
        \_ without ports or X what exactly do you obect to? tcsh?
           be serious. --aaron
           \_ I don't need x, gtk, gimp, window managers, tcsh, zsh, and
              and all of /usr/local. I'm looking for /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin,
               and /usr/sbin with a few addons like nmh, screen, perl, cc
               and javac.
                \_ /usr/local is where ports install and none are installed
                   by default. true, tcsh is part of the base now, but
                   excepting that, i installed a system without any of the
                   things you mention, just by NOT checking boxes. have you
                   ever personally installed bsd? --aaron
                   \_ yeah, most of my boxes run either OpenBSD or Linux (for
                      work related stuff) and I have one box running FreeBSD.
                      I selected the default install, which as several people
                      have indicated was wrong. I'm going to install FreeBSD
                      4.2 this weekend without selecting anything and see how
                      that goes. Thanks.
        \_ - paolo
           \_ I need a little more than what fits on a floppy.
              But it sounds like a good starting point. I'll check
              it out.
        \_ FreeBSD is basically a linux distribution now, only with a lot less
           vendor support and snooty unhelpful users.
           \_ Its is supposedly high performance though. I'm contemplating
              switching over to OpenBSD or NetBSD. Do either of them have
              softupdates or memory fs in working order?
              \_ OpenBSD's vm is kinda screwy, but yes it has softupdates.
        - paolo
                 \_ vm is screwy? You mean the new encrypt swapped pages
                    stuff or something else? Is NetBSD's better? Also how
                    is NFS v3 support? Shitty like linux or decent like
        \_ Sure!  Pick Custom Install and just choose the exact Distributions
           you want.  For your convenience, there are a bunch of bundles
           (and of course Custom, which lets you pick everything)  Try the
           Minimal bundle.  --dbushong
           \_ Thanks. I try it this weekend as I'm planning to upgrade to
              FreeBSD 4.2.
              \_ FYI, Debian Linux has an extremely minimal install. - entire
                 system on 3 floppies, w/ a good pkg mgr so you can select
                 and de-select accordingly.
                 \_ I know your heart is in the right place, but I wouldn't
                    run linux unless I had no other choice. I've used it for
                    several years (starting in the mid 90's) and I write code
                    for linux and solaris. Its just not right for me. Perhaps
                    its right for people who pay me money for my code, but not
                    for me.
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19965 Activity:nil 64%like:19968
11/30   I'm a little frustrated at how bloated FreeBSD is. Its almost like
        a LinSUX distribution. Is there a way to just install the kernel
        and a small portion of userland? Should I just stick to OpenBSD?
        FreeBSD is a little faster and has java so I'm a little hesitant
        to switch.
2000/11/29 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19940 Activity:nil
11/29   I'm having trouble compiling a simple program that uses
        sigempytset et al on Linux.  gcc keeps complaining that
        sigaction has no storage and the other funcs are not
        defined. Is there some trick to get this to work? (I've
        included <signal.h> and my prog. compiles and runs fine
        on BSD and Solaris).
2000/11/27-29 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19925 Activity:very high
11/27   I want to distribute a .c file that I sell with my proprietary
        product.  The .c file is GPL'd.  Do I have to distribute my
        proprietary product for free, now?
        \_ Ask a fucking lawyer.
        \_ Yes. RMS wants it all. Stupid you for picking COMMIE GPL
           tainted code.
        \_ IF you include GPLed code in your program, your whole program
           falls under the GPL.  This is a deliberate "feature": that it is
           viral in nature.  The key difference between the GPL and LGPL
           is that the LGPL, since inteded for libraries, is that only the
           origional portion is under the LGPL, the rest of your program
           is not.  One of the initial bugs in Bison is that the output
           was covered under the GPL and not the LGPL (a situation since
        \_ No.  The GPL does not prevent you from selling your code.  That
           said, depending upon which version of the GPL the file is under
           (there are several, check out for details), others may
              proprietary product.  The .c file is GPL'd.  This means I
              must make available the entire source of my proprietary
              product for free, to anyone that asks.
           be able to freely give your code to others.
        \_ The GPL doesn't affect one bit how much you charge for your product,
              for free to anyone that asks, less medium copy costs.
           it just gives your customers the right to give it away to anyone
           they want at any price they want, including for charge or for free.
           Sooner or later it will probably end up in the hands of someone
           who will do it for free.
           \_ Thanks.  I read the material.  Amended:
              I want to distribute a .c file that I sell with my
              proprietary product.  The .c file is GPL'd.  My proprietary
              product becomes GPL'd.  All GPL'd software must be available
                \_ Only if the .c file is part of your product.  Look at
                   all the major Unix vendors - they include GPL'ed software
                   with their OS'es, but their OS'es aren't GPL'ed.
                   \_ I was talking with a friend about this and the
                      opinion was that if we distribute the GPL'd .c file
                      with the intention that the user can link it in
                      with our source, then it becomes iffy enough
                      that someone can sue us if we don't GPL the
                      entire proprietary product.
              for free to anyone that asks, less medium copy costs.  I can
              still sell my proprietary product for however much I want,
              but I have to give it away free to anyone that asks.
                \_ No you don't - you have to include source or provide it
                   at a reasonable cost for media for anyone who has a
                   binary copy, but you don't have to give it away for free.
                   \_ "less medium copy costs"
        \_ Okay, so I've done some research on the GNU GPL, and the basic
           idea is that if you link GPL'd source with your product, then
           your product becomes GPL'd, and anyone can take your product's
           source and make an improved version of your product.  In other
           words the GNU GPL "encourages" free software, which leaves the main
           revenue stream for GPL'd software to grants and support contracts,
           and co.'s like Red Hat that would pay programmers to write GPL'd
           software.  Is that right?
           \_ there's also the GNU Library license.  take GNU libc.  one can
              link to it and still keep his or her code proprietary.  -dpetrou
           \_ Yes.  This is correct.  The GPL is an evil virus license.
              \_ Well, free software isn't a bad thing.  The GPL definition
                 and intent should just be more clear to the lay programmers.
                 \_ I'm not opposed to free.  I'm opposed to virus licenses.
                 \_ BSD is a free license. GPL (and variations) are not.
                 \_ This is what happens when you get a kook like RMS trying
                    to write a legal document to do something that's
                    questionably legal in the first place.
2000/11/23-25 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:19897 Activity:high
11/22   Another installment of the OS Wars:

        I recently acquired a dual Pentium Pro system and I'm not
        sure which OS to install on it, FreeBSD SMP (or SMPng),
        Linux SMP or Solaris x86. Any recommendations?
        \_ Solaris x86.  it was running a quaad PII-300 just fine.
           Freebsd SMP is getting there but they are "still working on it"
           I hear Linux SMP is slightly better; NT SMP is even better.
        \_ FreeBSD sucks ass.  It's too difficult to use.  Go with a sane
           Linux distribution.
           \_ I couldn't find "sucks ass" in my technical manual glossary.
              Should I look in my tech dictionary under "religion" or should
              I look under "only used one OS in his life newbie"?
              \_ Why isn't soda running linux!?
                 \_ The linux gurus were out bike riding when the decision
                \_ Solaris for X86 sucks.  If ALL you care about is
                    was made.
           \_ All three are equally easy for me to use. I want to
              know which has better stability and performance.
                \_ Solaris for X86 sucks.
                   \_ correction: solaris on UNSUPPORTED HARDWARE sucks.
                      On the other hand, there are supported athhlon
                      motherboards, for example.
                   If ALL you care about is
                   stability and performance you want BSD. If you
                   want something hip that you can run a flash plug-in
                   (and other new/cool stuff) with good performance/
                   reliability you want linux.
                   \_ hip/cool not important to me. I want decent
                      network, disk and memory performance (both
                      FreeBSD and Solaris should provide this but
                      I don't really know about Solaris x86) and
                      good scheduling performance (near linear
                      scale up with 2 vs 1 CPU in SMP mode).
                   \_ solaris smp still blows away linux and bsd smp
        \_ BeOS
        \_ it all depends on what you want to do with it.
           \_ nfs, ftp, http, ssh. It will be my home server
              which means that I can free up my PII for playing
              around with stuff like the lottery scheduler on
              FreeBSD 4.x.
                \_ For a home server?  Oh please.  Just install whatever
                   you're most comfortable with.  It won't matter.  Are you
                   performing high cpu/fpu number crunching all day for your
                   phd thesis or something?  If not, just install something.
                   I was under the mistaken impression you were doing something
                   where performance might have mattered.  Put in at least 128
                   megs of ram, 256 is better and forget about it.  I can't
                   believe someone is seeking OS vs OS tedium advice for such
                   a trivial use as if it was going to make a difference.
                   \_ Well, I don't want to install FreeBSD SMP if other
                      people know that it is mostly unstable, ditto for
                      Solaris x86. I used to run Linux SMP on my PowerMac
                      and there where times it would lock up at high load
                      (some scheduler run queue problem). That's why I'm
                      asking which is better in terms of stability and
                        \_ Get an old 586, put 128 megs of ram in it, load up
                           your favorite version of *nix.  Enjoy it.
2000/11/17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19826 Activity:nil
11/16   How do I enable tagged queuing on scsi drives under freebsd?
        \_ It is on by default.
           \_ I guess its not available on my seagate drives (Hawk).
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19794 Activity:insanely high
11/16   the new soda rocks! good job to all who contributed.
        \_ Cool! So what's the difference btwn old & new?
           \_ OLD: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/computing/hardware/soda-mark-v.html
              NEW: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/computing/hardware/soda-mark-vi.html
              \_ The linke to AMD on the new page is broken.
                 \_ Fixed, thanks.
        \_ Do we still have the lottery scheduler?
          \_ I think not. It didn't get ported to new kernel. --PeterM
              \_ How hard would that be? I have some
                 free time coming up.
                 \_ I don't think it's necessary.  Soda seems to be doing fine
                    without the lottery scheduler.
        \_ Is there a BSD equivalent to "psrinfo" and/or mpstat?
           \_ Have a look at the CPU and memory lines in /var/run/dmesg.boot.
        \_ Do we still have to worry about /var/mail hitting capacity
           as frequently?
           /dev/da3s1e            8617749  1104247  6824083    14%    /var/mail
           \_ you decide.
              \_ ummm, yes?
                 \_  Let's vote on it!
                        \_ Only if stupid people get to vote 5 times.
           \_ With about 2500 users and 10 GB, people should still
              limit themselves to 4MB.
        \_ how about a /usr/contrib setup?
        \_ Very well done.  Thanks a lot for the time and effort, guys.  -John
2000/11/16-2001/2/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19788 Activity:nil
FreeBSD 4.2-BETA (MKVI) #0: Wed Nov 15 02:45:28 PST 2000
__        __   _                            _          ____            _
\ \      / /__| | ___ ___  _ __ ___   ___  | |_ ___   / ___|  ___   __| | __ _
 \ \ /\ / / _ \ |/ __/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ | __/ _ \  \___ \ / _ \ / _` |/ _` |
  \ V  V /  __/ | (_| (_) | | | | | |  __/ | || (_) |  ___) | (_) | (_| | (_| |
   \_/\_/ \___|_|\___\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|  \__\___/  |____/ \___/ \__,_|\__,_|
   ooo        ooooo                    oooo           oooooo     oooo ooooo
   `88.       .888'                    `888            `888.     .8'  `888'
    888b     d'888   .oooo.   oooo d8b  888  oooo       `888.   .8'    888
    8 Y88. .P  888  `P  )88b  `888""8P  888 .8P'         `888. .8'     888
    8  `888'   888   .oP"888   888      888888.           `888.8'      888
    8    Y     888  d8(  888   888      888 `88b.          `888'       888
   o8o        o888o `Y888""8o d888b    o888o o888o          `8'       o888o

              Things may work differently now.  Deal.  -root
2000/11/14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19765 Activity:nil
11/13   Anyone know if there are any USB AM/FM tuners that work under
        FreeBSD or MacOSX?
2000/11/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19629 Activity:high
11/1    Anyone setup and use one of those Cobalt raq and cache boxes?
        My company is planning to get some but of course I am going to
        have to support it. What to look out for? Should I en/discourage them?
        What about security? I assume it has to go on our own network.
        \_ Cobalt boxes are pretty easy to setup and use via the web
           gui. If you want to do everything via the command line, its
           mostly like a Red Hat box with some debian stuff here and
           On the newer x86 based boxes (RaQ3, RaQ4 and Qube3) you can
           install most commerical products that run on Red Hat and you
           can build most open source applications. The kernel is the
           notable exception; you may have problems running a generic
           kernel since there are some Cobalt hardware specific changes
           that are required to the kernel source in order for it to
           run correctly (a Cobalt box is not a generic PC MB in a 1U
           The boxes are reasonably secure, but don't expect something
           like an OpenBSD box with no remote exploits in 3 years.
           You will need to keep up with security patches.
           BTW, I work at Cobalt, so my reporting may be a little
           Feel free to mail me with any questions. ----ranga
                \_ note that OpenBSD's claim is based on a box which ships
                   with no external services enabled.  If you actually try to
                   *do* something with an OpenBSD box, it becomes mostly
                   equivalent to every other box on the net.  -tom
                   \_ The phrase was "default install".  My default install
                      was running apache, inetd, and some other crap.  But,
                      in general, I agree with you.  If you install a shitty
                      service like wu-ftpd on an openbsd box, you're just as
                      fucked as someone installing wu-ftpd on any other OS.
                   \_ I installed OpenBSD on a box about 2 months ago
                      and it had most of the "small servers" (in cisco
                      parlance) turned on for both ipv4 and ipv6, along
                      with ftpd, httpd, sendmail and sshd. I did the non
                      X install, which is (as far as I can tell) is the
                      configuration that the claim is based on. In this
                      configuration I could a decent amount of work.
                      I ultimately turned off most of that stuff since
                      that box became my home firewall. ----ranga
2000/10/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19504 Activity:high
10/17   How do I page align the offset passed into mmap?
        \_ Carefully.
        \_ What are you trying to accomplish?
           \_ On older versions of FreeBSD its says that
              when I mmap a file, I need to pass in a
              page aligned offset. Normally I do the

    p = (char *)mmap(0,(size_t)filelen,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,fd,(off_t)0);

              but I always get EINVAL on FreeBSD.
              \_ That line is correct; it works fine for me on FreeBSD.
                 You're getting EINVAL for some other reason -- perhaps
                 filelen is wrong, or fd refers to a socket instead of
                 an ordinary file or device?
                \_ i haven't used mmap in a couple of year. how to you
                   make sure your heap doesn't grow into your mmaped section?
                   do you malloc and mmap over the malloc? -ali
                   \_ I believe that it's the job of the OS to keep that
                      separate.  Just like if you malloc twice with different
                      sizes you expect the OS to not overlap them.
2000/10/12-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19467 Activity:kinda low
10/12   I'm trying to upgrade my FreeBSD 4.1 RELEASE system to 4.1.1
        STABLE but I can't get a hang of this cvsup thing. What is
        the idiot admin's way of upgrading a FreeBSD system? Optionally,
        can I just use anon cvs to grab all of /usr/src and run
        make world?
        \_ 1. go to cvsup in the ports, do a make install
           2. take a look at /usr/share/example/cvsup (or something)
           3. update the ports first.  cvsup 4.x-ports_supfile
           4. update the src cvsup 4.x_src_supfile (or something similar)
           5. build new kernel
           \_ Read /usr/src/UPDATING, as it has some good tips.  In general,
              the procedure after cvsupping is:
              # cd /usr/src
              # make buildworld
              # edit /sys/i386/conf/YOURKERNEL
              # make buildkernel YOURKERNEL
              # shutdown now
              # make installkernel YOURKERNEL
              # make installworld
              # mergemaster
              # reboot
2000/10/5-7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:19417 Activity:moderate
10/5    How do you disable telnet to require only ssh?
           \_ go to and look for the install instr.
        \_ rm -f /kernel
        \_ depends on your OS.  For most of the modern unixes you can
            just comment out the telnetd line in /etc/inetd.conf
            \_ And send a HUP to inetd. I forgot to do that once...
               \= killall -HUP inetd
                    \_ only if you're using a sun, jon. ;)
                        \_ Actually it's pkill on Solaris (7+) -alan-
                       \_ its in /usr/bin on FreeBSD
                \_ or REBOOT!
                    \_ go back to your NT box.
                        \_ 95! 95!  95 is the standard OS!
2000/10/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19398 Activity:high
10/02   Anyone here using IPv6? I'm trying to set it up behind my NAT
        box at home, but I'm not sure how to go about doing it. I've
        got a tunnel to freenet6 from my NAT box, but I don't know
        how to config the other systems. Url or other pointers
        \_  I've set up IPv6, alternately IPSEC over IPv4,
           on FreeBSD with it.  Assuming they have raccoon (key mgt. daemon)
           finished by now, it works great.  Otherwise there are plenty of
           other IPSEC tools in the FreeBSD ports collection.  Kame is real
           good for tunneling v4 via v6, and ipf/ipnat work just fine with
           it.  -John
           \_ Thanks for the info. I got the freenet6 tunnel working from my
              nat box (OpenBSD) to the 6bone (at least ping6 seems to work),
              but now I want to setup my other machines with IPv6 addresses
              so that they can be on the 6bone as well. My reading of <DEAD><DEAD>
              pages is that I need to get a subnet rather than a tunnel. Is this
              true? Who should I talk to in order to get a subnet?
                \_ No, the subnet is behind either of your kame boxes.  The
                   idea was to let you have ipv6 internal routing, and have
                   a network-to-network tunnel/VPN as opposed to a host-host
                   or host-network tunnel or VPN.  The idea here is that the
                   machine (firewall, routing PC) running kame 's internal
                   interface is your default gateway--to access a machine
                   on the subnet on the other side of the tunnel will then
                   be transparent for you, since the kame tunnel takes care
                   of the ipv6 transport via ipsec ESP.  As I gather, kame
                   also lets you connect to the 6bone, which is a bunch of
                   people also tunneling ipv6 via v4 (sort of an ipv6
                   internet on top of the internet.)  Mail me for more info.
                   \_ Uh, what is your email? finger -p john produces 32
                      matches. ---ranga
                           AWAY ALL THE PRETTY BUT NERDY CS164 CHICKS WHO
                           WON'T BE DRIVING SAILBOATS BY 35 BUT STILL  CAN'T
                           COMMIES EVERY FUCKING WHERE.  Thank you.  Now
                           where is my loyal hunchbacked apprentice <fucker>?
                                                                -John -m
                           \_ Sorry if I have offended you. I did not want
                              to send the wrong person an email. There are
                              several people who sign thier actual names
                              rather than thier login name.
                      \_ -m, good sir
                         \_ Thanks.
2000/10/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19388 Activity:insanely high
10/01   Netcraft says that is now running Linux
        and OCF is running Solaris. What happened to BSD and DomainOS??
        What is the world coming to?
        \_ a better solution than bsd and domain os?
              \_ I may agree to domain, but BSD kicks sorry penguin
                 butt. Linux has a bad scheduler, vm subsystem, primary
                 fs, second rate IP stack, etc...
                 \_ but it has better press, more IT people willing to
                    try it, more mgmt willing to try it, support for
                    cheap hardware...
                    \_ FreeBSD supports almost all of the same "cheap"
                       hardware and then some of the more expensive
                       "pro" hardware like SCSI RAID, WAN Interfaces,
                       1000BT Ethernet.
                       \_ cardbus???  How about some SMP for my dual
                          \_ SMP(ng) is quite good under FreeBSD. Even
                             the old version of SMP under FreBSD kicks
                             Linux's sorry penguin ass. About the only
                             SMP OS's that Linux is better than is LoseNT
                             and MacOS 1-9 (with the exception that SMP
                             enabled MacOS apps are *much* better than
                             on Linux, because for dedicated workloads
                             cooperative multitasking is superior to
                             \_ How does X kick Y's ass and Y kick
                                Z's ass. Saying such things doesn't
                                show that you have a clue why one OS
                                is better than the other or why one OS
                                or scheduling policy is better than
                                another for SMP.
           \_ DomainOS, okay.  But the BSD thing is open to debate.  It's
              probably more of a religious thing...   -John
              \_ This is Berkeley, we *OUGHT* to run BSD!
                \_ this looks like the same moron, below, who is saying you
                   *OUGHT* to spend hours tweaking geometry settings in your
                   .xinitrc rather than having your windowing system remember
                   your session.  Which is typical of the BSD mindset. -tom
                   \_ I bet you use a lot of windows and waste the
                      resources of your computer all the time. Typical
                      of the Linux/Lose* users.
                \_ This is america, we *OUTGHT* to be driving GM cars!
                   \_ Ford. Toyota is mostly okay too since most of thier
                      cars are built in this country.
        \_ The OCF has been running Solaris for more than 5 years now.
           Domain/OS is long dead.  -alan-
           \_ Sigh. I guess all good things must come to an end.
              \_ and bad things end sooner.
                 \_ But HP killed Domain/OS in order to sell more HP/UX.
                    NIH syndrome killed the better technology.
                    \_ There is no accounting for some people's tastes.
                       Domain/OS was much better than anything HP has
                       *ever* offered as an OS (Don't tell me about HPUX i
                       10.20 or 11, I ran them for about a year, Domain/OS
                       on a 68030 @ 25 MHz was *MUCH* faster than HP-UX on
                       a PA-RISC 100 or even the newer machines).
2000/9/27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19342 Activity:nil 60%like:19344
09/27 If you have a spare (FreeBSD compatible) hardware raid controller,
      please consider donating it to MkVI.  -mikeh
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19335 Activity:high
9/26    Why is soda crashing so often these days? Do we need an upgrade?
        Perhaps FreeBSD 4.1.1 or something?
        \_ I believe that it is failing hardware.  I also think we need
           to upgrade.... not the OS but the hardware, though upgrading
           the OS at the same time as the hardware makes sense.  --PeterM
           \= What kind of hardware do you think we need? I'm
              willing to donate something ($s even). - Concerned Alum
                \_ they already have a mkVI standing by i thought
              \_ We could really use a hardware raid controller.  -mikeh
                 \= SCSI or IDE?
                    \_ UW SCSI, at least 2 channels -mikeh
                       \= Name a card. I'll see what I can do.
                          BTW, If I do donate, can my brother get an
                          BTW, If I donate, can my brother get an
                          account (he's a undergrad)?
                          \_ Please contact me in email.  Tell your brother
                             to fill out an application.  Right now, I don't
                             know who either of you are.  -mikeh
        \_ If we would just reboot it every 2 hours, it would not crash.
                \_ I didn't know soda ran on MS software.
        \_ The upgrade is in progress.  The new machine is almost ready.
           Please be patient.  -- rewt
2000/9/19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19292 Activity:nil 80%like:19284
9/18    I need a good Fedex for my *BSD boxen. Any recommendations?
        \_ stupid censor deleted. stop purging other people's entries.
2000/9/19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19284 Activity:high 80%like:19292
9/18    I need a good UPS for my *BSD boxen. Any recommendations?
        \_ Stupid Joke Deleted. We've all heard it before.
        \_ stupid censor deleted. stop purging other people's entries.
2000/9/15-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19260 Activity:high
9/15    What's up with soda recently? Why all of the reboots? Maybe
        its time to upgrade to FreeBSD 4.1 Stable? Or OpenBSD 2.7?
        \_ There aren't REBOOTS, child, they are CRASHES.  Soda is less
        \_ They aren't REBOOTS, child, they are CRASHES.  Soda is less
           stable than my NT workstation at work.
           \_ what do you use your NT box for? A door stop? A paper
              weight? Playing solitare/minesweeper? Find me a NT machine
              that can support 300 concurrent remote logins and serve
              web pages and mail and all the other stuff that soda does.
              here. We ought not switch to a inferior Finnish update,
              regardless of how nice Linus is as a person.
              \_ It's a development box.  And soda used to be stable once
                 with 300+ concurrent users and everything.  And then something
                 broke and it crashes every week.  Stop giving the stupid,
                 wrong excuse.
                 \_ Okay, find me a NT development box that can do as
                    much with *developement* code (NT is released code).
              \_ Find me an NT machine that can support 1 remote logins.
                           \_ Use UWIN, David Korn's only redeeming
                              contribution to software.
                        \_ Come meet our office Citrix server.
                 \_ Does soda run MS Office, etal? That's all that counts.
                        \_ Not for what soda's used for it doesn't.
                    \_ It could run MS Office very easily. Either via WINE
                       or VMWare or via StarOffice which is in the ports
                       collection. But your NT machine couldn't hold a candle
                       to what soda does (on so little) every day using FreeBSD.
                    \_ What an incredibly stupid question.
        \_ This machine will not be upgraded.  There is no point, only Mark VI.
        \_ Time for Redhat Linux
           \_ Uh, this is What part of
              do you not understand. The BEST OS in the KNOWN UNIVERSE
              (4.4 BSD: A REAL Operating System for Real Users) was built
              here. We ought not switch to an inferior Finnish OS,
              regardless of how nice Linux is as an OS.
              \_ Mikeh is the last FreeBSD vp we'll have.  Deal with reality
        and linux you freebsd fascist. Have a day.
                        \_ Then expect alumni to seize power and restore
                           sense to your senseless linux crap.
                           \_ bwhahaha.  do it then.  take the athlon
                              make it yours.  go on.  run bsd on it.
              \_ and yet 162 is being taught on win2k next semester...
                 \_ ARGV! ARGC! I can't fscking believe this.
                        \_ Didn't you hear? Windows NT is better than Unix.
                           It's been scientifically proven. That's why all
                           the computer scientists are switching to it.
                              \_ By M$ scientists no less.
                                 \_ You mean M$ scientologists.
                           \_ I thought it was because all the idiots at
                              UPE were complaining to the CS profs to buy
                              more worthless junk.
                           \_ Roughly but not quite. There is always
                              \_ HP-UX doesn't count as worthless anymore?
                 \_ It is? Who is teaching it and is this something that may
                    change semester to semester?
                 \_ And if that isn't enough, they're also using Java. Next
                    thing we know Berkeley CS will be taught on Windows boxen
                    using C# abd visual basic.
                        \_ This is when Berkeley goes from being a University
                           to a trade school.
                           \_ Roughly. There is always
                              some sort of trade-off between teaching
                              students something mildly marketable
                              so they got they don't come out completly unaware
                              of the current tools, and theory.
                              Each class, you will learn how to use
                              current tools of the trade, but it doesn't
                              change the content of the examination
                              or knowing the underlying ideas.
                    \_ Java's not so bad, at least it was invented by people
                       who work at a company that would not exist except for
                        \_ Ray Neff put Sun on the map!  -John
        \_ OpenBSD is SMP now?
           \_ not yet. soda is SMP? I though that went out when we
              switched from DyNIX.
2000/9/10-12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19220 Activity:high
9/10    using: win2k  wanted: good firewall pkg.  recommendationsP
        good defind as something you have used, and are comfortable
        with and have the least amount of hatred for.
        \_ I recommend ipf, you need to install a helper environment
           in order to get it running, a little environment named
                \_ Dork.  The person wants WinRoute.  --openbsd/win2k user
                   \_ Running a firewall using Lose2k or an MS OS
                      is like building a castle, but leaving the
                      drawbridge down, the portcullius up and the
                      doors open. There is no point. What he needs
                      is ipf, and he should be running it using
                      OpenBSD. For him, ipf is the app, and OpenBSD
                      is the lib. Yeah, installing the lib wipes
                      Lose2K, but that is a good thing.
                      \_ Paolo, shut the fuck up.
                         \_ I'm not Paolo, I'm #1 *BSD FAN!
                        \_ Hi.  I really did mean 2k.  I run
                           ipf on the other half of the machine
                           and no, it's not buff enough for vmware.
                        \_ Like if you ever used WinRoute or w2k you might
                           know what you're talking about.  OpenBSD isn't the
                           answer to every question unless your toolshed only
                           has a hammer.
                           \_ Lose2K isn't the answer to any question.
                              In fact if M$ is the answer to any question,
                              you are asking the wrong question.
                                \_ Some of us live and work in the real world
                                   where your religious point of view won't
                                   fly.  So what's the answer for the busdev
                                   and sales people who want powerpoint style
                                   presentations, excel style spreadsheets,
                                   and exchange style calendaring?  There isn't
              plug in. Needless to say, they don't use the openbsd side
                                   a better set of apps on the unix side for
                                   these sorts of things than MS has.  It's
                                   time to leave the church and try something
                                   secular.  -unix admin
        \_ You're apparently looking for something free, but numerous
           colleagues of mine (mostly unix-heavy) have liked Axent Raptor
           pretty well.  Of course, it pretty much rips out all the Wincrap
           and leaves the pretty interface.  Regarding IPF, is there any
           possibility you can put a dedicated OpenBSD/ipf box in front of
           the Windows machine?  Leaving a Windows box on an open net is
           a fairly risky proposition, especially since Win2k probably
           hasn't most of its security bugs exposed yet...  -John
           \_ rock on. thanks. this was the type of answer I was looking
              for.  This is a laptop.  It dual boots w/ 2k.  At work,
              it's jacked in behind an openBSD firewall; so no problem
              the issue is that this z505s is a presentation machine and
              the biz team likes to take it to various locales and
              plug in. Needless to say, they don't use the unix side
              of the machine.
                \_ What I was getting at though is that I don't know whether
                   you can really use Win2k as such under Raptor, since it
                   really claims to rip everything out, install its own "OS"
                   and leaves the Windows GUI.  If you're using the laptop
                   productively, I'd recommend looking for some sort of
                   hardening programs that close ports and kill services.
                   You may want a look at to see what you
                   can do manually.  -John
2000/9/6-8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19176 Activity:high
9/6     Any opinions on OpenBSD vs NetBSD for running it on an old Alpha
        or sparc? How do they compare feature-wise? I already know about
        OpenBSD being an uber-secure system, I want to know what other
        things set them aside. Which is more fun to work with?
        What about hardware support?
        \_ I prefer OpenBSD. The installation was exteremly easy and it
           has some nifty features other than security (RaidFrame for
           example). OpenBSD is pretty fast on a SS10 and a Pentium 150
           200 class machine. It is probably the best maintained OS
           (free or otherwise) I have ever used (upto date manpages, good
           online docs, frequently updated bug lists, stable and fully
           featured release code). ----ranga
           \_ uhh, netbsd has sw raid as well ....
              \_ Working/Stable? When I tried it (a while back now) it
                 didn't work very well and not many people seemed
                 interested in it.
                 \_ well I've been using netbsd for years and its fine.  -ERic
        \_ OpenBSD has the 'old' style install system.  You get the
           pleasure of mucking with disk labels and such if you like.
           I prefer it for paranoia's sake but I wouldn't call it the
           easiest install of the *bsd's.  I don't want to use default
           partitioning but I don't want to muck with the cruddy 25+
           year old disk label program either. Yes, I do run openbsd so
           I found it worth the trouble.
           \_ What BSD has a nicer install program than OpenBSD? FreeBSD?!?
              Surely you jest. OpenBSD install may not be graphical and
              have a "window" driven interface (a la RH Linux) or a menu
              interface (a la FreeBSD) but you can't screw it up. It gives
              you all the functionality you need in a neat tight package.
              The running system is quite nice too. I run both OpenBSD and
              FreeBSD, and I like OpenBSD more. The *only* reason I'm
              running FreeBSD is that I need servlet support and FreeBSD
              has a native jdk (emulated under OpenBSD).
                \_ When I did a 2.4 install, it was ok but not great.  Yes,
                   fbsd was easier imo and has more packages for the lazy,
                   although this is being corrected soonish.  It isn't about
                   \_ I'm a new comer compared to you. I've only installed
                      OpenBSD 2.6 and 2.7, both of which were exteremely easy
                      to use much better than anything else I've ever installed
                      including FreeBSD (2.2.6, 3.0 release, 4.0 release, 4.1
                      release), Solaris (2.2-8), RHL (4.0-6.2), Debian (m68k
                      kernel 2.0.34), LinuxPPC (R3-5,1999,2000), HPUX (10.20,
                      11), MacOS (3.0-9). Solaris 7,8 and MacOS 8.5 & 9 both
                      come pretty close, but MacOS requires a GUI (- for me)
                      and Solaris has problems in text only.
                   guis.  I dont prefer guis.
                   \_ The current one 2.7 is much better than 4.1 FreeBSD
                      or RH 6.2.
2000/8/30-2001/4/6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19128 Activity:nil
12/19   I have a brand-new pre-installed linux box from penguin and it is
        running something on port 945; what?
        I rebooted and it moved to port 946!  What could this be!?!
        \_ it might be an rpc service, as they tend to move around
           from privileged port to privileged port. try rpcinfo -p
           localhost.  but in general you want to scrutinize and
           lock down any new linux box you get from a vendor (incl.
           turning off everything in /etc/inetd.conf, any bogus
           daemons, etc.) there is no telling what could be running
           on that port. -brg
        \_ lsof -i:946
        Also, is there a place like penguin to get pre-installed BSD boxes?
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>  --dbushong
2000/8/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19113 Activity:moderate
8/28    How good is FreeBSD's NFS server support? I'm thinking about
        switching my Linux machine to run FreeBSD and I want to know
        is the wierd NFS problems that I see *all the time* with Linux
        will be present in FreeBSD. The machine will only be exporting
        a few home directories. Also what is a good (decent performance,
        ie not a 3COM nic) NIC for a FreeBSD NFS server? My network is
        switched full duplex 100.
        \_ FreeBSD's NFS is much better than Linux, especially if you're
           serving to other OSen.  Also, it's tape system actually works
           so if you're making a file server, your headaches will be fewer.
           \_ Thanks.
        \_ "Weird NFS problems" is not very descriptive. I have used
           linux as a nfs/samba server for a medium sized company
           of 200 people before and had no problems. -ausman
           \_ Okay, here is a list of my common problems:

              1. Under high CPU load 1-2 for 15+ min the NFS server
                 process stops answering. strace says that it is
                 hung on a lock or a read.
              2. Sometimes files become directories and visa versa.
                 When this happens, only a reboot of the client ws
                 solves the problem (can't unmount)
              3. When secure is specified, clients lose connectivity
                 to the server intermittently.
              4. On big directory copies ~ 1% .nfs* files created.

              I never had such problems when my NFS server was a
              Solaris machine. I could go back to that machine (SS10)
              but I can't afford to good sized disk for it.
              \_ Silly rabbit, solaris is for intel.
                 Can't you afford $70+shipping?
                 \_ I have Solaris 8 for x86, but I have been told
                    that PII 400 or greater for decent performance.
                    Also, Solaris for x86 is mostly geared towards
                    high-end SMP boxes.
                    \_ All bullshit. Never trust your source again.
                       If the CPU is good enough for free*nix, its good
                       enough for solaris, if you run the same stuff
                       on it. It's all about RAM. Solaris needs
                       16-32megs more RAM to be happy than your average
                       stripped-down linux install. If your box has
                       128 megs RAM, solaris x86 will perform very well
                       on it. Even 96megs, if you dont run emacs+netscape.
                       True, you 'll be most impressed if you have a
                       multi-cpubox. But otherwise, performance should be
                       remarkably similar.
                       \_ I've got a PII 350 and I'll be running it with
                          128 MB ram. It will be a server only. No X BS.
                          I like Solaris, but I'm a little concerned about
                          security. FreeBSD comes with tcp wrappers et al,
                          while securing a Solaris box is harder (isn't it?)
                          Anyone know of a good URL where I can get hardening
                          tips for Solaris (or FreeBSD)?
                          \_ So.. install tcp wrappers, why doncha?
                             Or download "sunscreen lite", suns free
                             actual FIREWALL PRODUCT.
                             And yeah, there is a web page somewhere
                             about "hardening solaris", but it sucks.
                             The proceedure is identical to any other *NIX:
                             shut down services, remove setuid progs,
                             check perms on dirs, etc.
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18957 Activity:moderate
8/10    Related question to the SMP one below. Where can I get a used
        SMP box (PII 300 class) to run linux/freebsd? I tried E-Bay
        but didn't see anything in that class. If anyone has one to
        sell, or knows someone looking to upgrade, I'm interested.
        \_ I think mikeh has a 2xP133 ;)
           \_ How does it run under linux/freebsd? Any idea how
              much he wants for it?
              \_ I know he runs FreeBSD 4.x on it. Mail him and ask him.
2000/8/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18948 Activity:very high
8/9     What's a good place to buy a SMP x86 box to run either FreeBSD or
        \_ I looked at these people, and they weren't _too_ overpriced, but
           I ended up building it myself:
           I ended up building it myself using basically the same HW:
           \_ Seems kind of pricey. I went to fry's today and a dual mb
              was $150, the two procs were $160 each, 128 mb ram was
              $100 and the case was $100, total $670. (I have the
              drives and cdrom). I was looking for some place that sells
              a pre-built one for approx. $800-$900. Used is okay for
              me (dual 300 PIIs or alternatives).
              \_ Well, I bought all the parts at Central and City-Com (better
                 prices) and the machine totalled ~ $5300, for:
                 2x PIII733 flip chip, SuperMicro 370DL3 MB, 512MB ECC PC133
                 Registered DIMM, 4x IBM 10k rpm 36GB drives, Ecrix VXA-1
                 internal tape drive, case, cdrom, floppy, fans, etc.
                 Roughly the same thing (but with Cheetahs instead of
                 IBM drives) was about $8k from SWT.  This is less
                 of a markup than many places.  Technically you can buy
                 SMP linux boxen from Dell these days.  --dbushong
                        \_ don't buy from Dell.  If you buy a "Linux box"
                           from Dell they don't ship you so much as a boot
                           floppy, and all the driver/management software
                           they ship runs only under Windows.  Plus their
                           support sucks sucks sucks.  Go VA Linux.  -tom
                           \_ I can't go VA Linux as I work for a competitor.
                              We just don't make SMP boxes yet (our price
                              point is much lower than VA).
                              \_ how about a name, so I can buy from you?
                                 \_ We don't really make desktops, though
                                    you could put a video card in one of
                                    our boxes.
                 \_ That's a pretty stacked machine. I'm just looking
                    for a reasonable performance/prcie SMP box to replace
                    a Sun Ultra 2 (2 200 MHz UltraSparcII's).
        \_ Why waste a good SMP box on a bad SMP OS like Linux?
                \_ As if FreeBSD was any better for SMP boxes.
              \_ I said either FreeBSD or Linux. I haven't made up
                 my mind yet. I'm more familiar with Linux (running it
                 since 1996), but I agree the kernel level locking is
                 pretty bad. I've heard that FreeBSD is better or
                 possibly even Solaris x86.
                 \_ I believe FreeBSD still does kernel level locking too,
                    but I certainly have liked the performance better on
                    our SMP FreeBSD box than on our Linux box running the
                    latest kernel.  I swear when the Linux box gets one big
                    java program that's not even sucking all the memory it
                    just dies.  --dbushong
           \_ because it's there
                 \_I've said it before, i'll say it agin(I was deleted before)
                     Solaris x86 sucks, don't do it.
                     \_ Yes, I heard several people from Sun say that too.
                        Are you from Sun too?
                         \_ I am not, but I have also been told by a guy from
                            Sun that it was never really a priority so it just
                            go thrown together.  Also the comparisons i posted
                            earlier (the only part of my post not deleted)
                            paint a pretty clear picture.
                            \_ What comparisons?
                            \_ Until recently, Sun's x86 priorities were aimed
                               at SMP servers, since that's what they had
                               contracts from OEM's like NCR for.  This is why
                               video drivers for x86 were not a priority.  This
                               is changing due to the popularity of the "free"
                               Solaris deal.
                               \_ So Solaris x86 on a dual PII/PIII box would
                                  be better than either FreeBSD or Linux?
                                        \_ Depends on what you want to do with
                                           it & what you need to run on it.
                                           \_ Translation: yes, for just
                                              about everything, solaris x86
                                              will be better MP, IF it is
                                              happy with the hardware.
                                           \_ Compiler to build some c code,
                                              apache/perl for cgi, javac for
                                              java code and X.
           \_ Even though he looks small, Pikachu is the best pokemon.
              I don't care what you think!
              \_ Pikachu is the dark lord and master of pokemon.
                 \_ B-but... but he's so cute! I just wanna hug him.
                    \_ Pi-ka-CHU!!
2000/8/8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:18918 Activity:very high
8/7     Anyone know how OpenBSD's NFS implementation compares with Linux
        and Solaris? URL okay.
        \_ anything (except irix) is better than the linux implementation.
            However, oddly enough, I think I heard that one of the
            other *BSDs had better NFS than OpenBSD.
            And of course, Solaris practically IS NFS. It's virtually
            the reference platform.
            \_ I'm thinking about switching my Linux box (RH 4.2 + 2.0.36
               kernel) over to run Solaris x86 because it has Sun NFS.
               But Solaris x86 a pretty fringe system, so I don't know
               if everything will be up to snuff like on a Sparc box.
               I installed OpenBSD and I really like it, that's why I'm
               asking for a comparision. I'm not looking for performance,
               I prefer stability and reliability, ie good v2 and possibly
               v3 support.
               \_ what do you mean by a "fringe system"??
                  \_ Not as many users as *BSD/Linux on x86.
            \_ strange that an OS that actual tried to heed user needs
               has better nfs than openbsd.
               \_ Which *BSD has good NFS support? AFAI can tell OpenBSD
                  seems pretty userfriendly but I've only been running
                  openbsd for 3 days now. The FreeBSD install was not as
                  nice/easy as the openbsd install.
            \_ Solaris, though Sun says it's the ref platform, it actually
               not totally in accordance with Sun's own ONC spec.
               \_ So you're saying that I should be okay with Solaris x86?
                  How does Solaris x86 on a P150 compare with a SS10/20
                  in terms of speed (network responsiveness under high
                  load) and stability?
                  \_ disk response will be better on an SS20, I think,
                     unless you're spending a lot more on the intel
                     hadware than it sounds like you are.
                     \_ I have a resonably fast SCSI card (20 mb/sec)
                        with some 7200 RPM drives (1 & 2 GBs) so my
                        disk perf should be on par with SS10/SS20, I'm
                        more interested in the general robustness of
                        Solaris x86 compared to Solaris Sparc.
                        \_ depends on the hardware you have. If its all
                           solid quality, and on the HCL, then you will
                           have a very solid system with Solaris x86.
                           Some ISPs who are willing to actually pay for
                \_ I feel that your mother is a terrible security concern.
                   \_ If she wanted to she could hack into my computers
                      without trying very hard. She's been coding since
                      PDP-11 days.
                           their UNIX, have been running on solaris intel
                           for a few years now.
        \_ you are running openbsd, a pretty secure OS.  you are wanting
           to run NFS, which is essentially rootkit for unix.  hmm.
           \_ For my file server behind my firewall. Not afraid of
              hacking by my users (mom, dad, me, and my brother).
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
2000/8/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18882 Activity:nil
8/4     when is it better to use  strcpy vs strncpy?  what is  strlcpy?
        \_ Short answer: man strcpy.
        \_ It isn't. Use strncpy
                \_ Wrong.  strcpy is much faster (doesn't have to 0-pad the
                   full space), but should only be used when you are
                   absolutely positively sure you won't overflow the buffer.
                   (i.e. when you've already called strlen, or the string
                    is embedded in your source and not from user input).
                   strlcpy/strlcat is a OpenBSD invention that other OS'es
                   are picking up - it's more efficient & easier to use
                   correctly than the strn* equivalents.
2000/8/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18881 Activity:very high
8/4     Why do people on the motd cap on Linux? Is FreeBSD so much better?
        I just tried to install FreeBSD on a machine, and in some
        places I could barely tell WTF the installer was doing. After
        I got it running, it seemed much less user friendly. I'll
        admit my experience is limited, but setting up my Linux machine
        was a breeze and getting Linux info on line is a snap. I didn't
        really see anything in FreeBSD that wasn't available to me on
        Linux either, esp. since FreeBSD seems to rely on Linux Binary
        Emulation for a lot of stuff.
        \_ Because now that Linux is the "in thing", all the rebels don't
           get a woody from yelling about it any more, so they pick the
           next "outcast" in line to defend
           \_ That's what I thought.
        \_ FreeBSD is known for stability when stressed.
           \_ I've seen the stats for the network stack and yes FreeBSD
              is better than Linux, but for a home firewall connected to
              my DSL line, I don't need all of those capabilities. I'm not
              running <DEAD><DEAD> or yahoo.
              \_ This is what you get when you say "Is X better."  Is FreeBSD
                 a better desktop Win98-replacement GUI desktop for running
                 all of those precompiled commercial apps you love?  Of
                \-what stats are these? --psb
              \_ This is what you get when you say "Is X better than Y?"
                 Is FreeBSD a better desktop Win98-replacement GUI desktop for
                 running all of those precompiled commercial apps you love?  Of
                 course not.  --dbushong
        \_ openBSD 2.6 and above have really good installers.  I installed
           2.7 + X in the time from the powell street to berkeley bart stations
           on a dell inspiron.  Linux has better driver support (at least it
           has cardbus).  I've noticed that openBSD is useful on old systems
           since I can run windowmaker on a P133 (whereas when I ran fvwm on it
           the machine ran dog slow) reasonably.  Linux does have better sound
           and has a much better camraderie. - paolo
           \_ I really like the way OpenBSD keeps the source for the entire
              system in /usr/src and you can rebuild the whole thing with just
              "make build".
              \_ I may be mistaken, but aren't all open-source *BSDs like
                 \_ Yes, but for FreeBSD it would be "make buildworld"
                        \_ except for FreeBSD it would be "oh shit I've
                           gotta reformat because I let myself get two
                           revisions behind".  OpenBSD almost certainly
                           has the same problem.
           \_ Is it similar to the RH 6.x installer? I found the FreeBSD
              installer to be pretty confusing. No, I am not a newbie, I've
              installed *BSD's before, but mainly NetBSD.  I was attracted to
              OpenBSD because of the security features, but the state of Java
              on OpenBSD seems to be pretty bad. I have a set of servlets that
              I run at home and I would prefer not to have to rewrite them in
              \_ NO there is no X graphics, it's all SANE step by step
                 text based instructions. (Think Slackware) you just need
                 to get used to diskedit which shows things in 512K blocks
                  not 1024.  If you're going to use linux, then dear God,
                 use Debian (especially if you're a business) for their
                 almost-cronable upgrades. BTW:  I don't recommend
                 freeBSD for laptops since there's no cardbus support
                 That being said, I don't really recommend freebsd at all
                 either go with openbsd or go with linux/windows if you must
                 put openbsd on your firewall and portforward http[s] - paolo
                 \_ How is OpenBSD berter than FreeBSD?  OpenBSD lacks
                    significant performance features (like SMP) and provides
                \_ we all know how much experience paolo has in this area.
        \_ These were the type of responses I was looking for. Thanks for
           all of the sanity. Sometimes the motd can be very hostile.
                                                             \_ I love you! :D
        \_ And as we all know, ease of use is the sum of an operating
           system's value.  Why aren't you using a Mac?
           \_ My day to day computer is a PB G3 2000. My main desktop
              is a SMP LinuxPPC box. I was looking at replacing my Linux
              2.0.36 firewall box with a *BSD box.
        \_ Use what work better for -you-. I have heard many success stories
           about BSD. Good for them. But even if it is better than Linux,
           Linux does well what I need it to do and I see tripple
           digit uptimes on our production Linux boxes, so I am mostly happy
           with it.
           \_ BSD's stability is a myth.  Look at soda uptimes.
                    nothing more than a false sense of security.
                 \_ I'm more interested in the SANE step by step installer
                    than anything else. The RH installer was pretty clear,
                    thats what I liked, not the GUI crap. I'll try installing
                    openbsd today. Does the ftp install work over a firewall
                    and nat? I also liked the clear and complete docs for
                    openbsd. Thier web site and docs seem quite professional.
                    Much more so than the sketchy docs in FreeBSD.
                    \_ I have installed OpenBSD via ftp from behind a nat
                       firewall. --Galen
                       \_ Just finished installing it myself. Much easier
                          than FreeBSD. I think that I'll buy a CD even.
2000/8/3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18855 Activity:nil
        \_ yeah, that's why I run openbsd - paolo
                \_ Me too but that isn't why the guy is wrong.
                   \_ I'm running FreeBSD instead of OpenBSD
                      because Free has a native jdk. I know its
                      not as secure, but I gotta have servlets.
                \_ By the logic used in the article, OpenBSD sucks because
                   he'd add together all the BSD OS'es to get a "total BSD
                   count" which then applies to all BSD's.  (His "total
                   Linux count" is Redhat + Debian + SuSE + ..., ignoring
                   that they all share code so he's just counted the same
                   bug 5 times.)
        \_ openbsd notwithstanding, this guy is a moron. perhaps
           time-to-patch might be a teeeny issue? or perhaps calculate
           damage from 99.99% of the viruses that have ever existed that
           were solely due to M$ OS bad design and compare with negligible
           losses from linux holes?
           \_ The linux bug count simply means that exploits are found
              sooner and more often leading to an overall more secure
              system. I bet that a well admin'ed linux machine would be
              close to unbreakable, whereas an M$ machine no matter how
              well admin'ed would have as many holes as swiss cheese.
              \_ MS machines don't have shell access.  It's the e-mail
                 and VBScript and the address book and the hard drive
                 trashing yada yada yada.
                 \_ You are wrong.  Worse than wrong.  MS has the cmd.exe or
           (depending on 95/98 or nt/2k).  If you can
                    break an MS box enough to be able to "execute arbitrary
                    code and commands", then the easiest thing to do is exec
                    the command interpreter and make it work for you.  All
                    sorts of commands built right in with zero/near-zero
                    security in one easy package.  What you might have meant
                    is that "MS machines don't have remote shell access".
                    This is also untrue.  Go read up on the Eeye hole(s).
                    People, if you're going to talk with authority about
                    something, at least try to make some minimal attempt to
                    talk with authority about something you _know_ about as
                    opposed to something you _read_ about once on the net.
                    Don't babble rumors.  Get the facts.  As far as this
                    article goes, this is just a ad banner revenue generator.
                    I suggest not bothering.  It's flame bait.
                    \_ Your argument is overstated.  You focus in excessively
                       on the technical details in your argument, that you
                       neglect the effective truths.  That is,
                       "shell access" is not appealing to the script
                       kiddies who squeal with joy obtaining
                       UNIX root access.  There are things like BO,
                       but when it comes down to it,
                       and executing arbitrary code and commands is not
                       the same as multi-user shell access.  I already
                       know about, buffer over-runs, and
                       GUIs to ... but it's not shell access.
                       \_ Really? Getting access doesn't allow
                          you to execute and install arbitrary code?
                          \_ When all the script kiddies are talking
                             about how great their Windows NT slaves
                             are (as opposed to FTP juarez stores),
                             then I'll begin to take you seriously.
                             But yes, I agree that the technology is there
                             to get effective shell access by hacking
                             through Windows security and installing
                             a nice UI.  And next time please restrain
        \_ This guy is a dip.  He must have some nostalgia for the IBM
           vs. Apple platform wars.
2000/7/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18786 Activity:nil
7/26    How do i scoll up on my FREE-BSD console terminal?  (its shift-PgUp in
        \_ FreeBSD.  Hit scroll lock once.  Use page up/down.  When done,
           hit scroll lock again.  By default, there's not much of a scrollback
           buffer.  You can either compile in more lines of scrollback or,
           better yet, use screen if you are doing a lot of work on console.
2000/7/19-20 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:18720 Activity:very high
7/19    "Our only hope is to make an antivirus email that uses the hole to
        install the patch and then forwards itself off."
                --Fixing MS Outlook hole
                \_ man outlook
        \_ Somebody, please, get off your ass, code up an exploit, and have it
           install a real OS. Any real OS. Whichever one you like. Or at least
           put in some minimal bootstrapping mechanism that'll let the user
           pick an OS later. Once and for all get rid of all this M$ crap. I
           wish I could code x86 assembly, I'd do it myself...
                 \_ that's right folks, hurry and get your copy of
                    Mac OS X and a G4 to go along with it this winter
           \_ i can code x86 asembly.  please dfinge the problem better
              and i'll fuck shit up when i get time.
              \_ Using the recently-announced buffer overflow in Outlook
                 via the date field, create a self-replicating (via forward)
                 payload which causes the following behavior:
                 1) show, say, a "virus detected. stand by while we clean it
                 2) start up a stealthified installer for some really-trimmed
                    distribution of linux or *bsd (don't know of any mini
                    ports for the latter); this has to be small and fast.
                 3) alter the boot record to boot into the new os by default,
                    perhaps letting the user change to windows from inside
                    the new os.
                 4) put up a lot of obviously-visible first links to
                    newbie docs, so that the user is motivated to try and
                 \_ dont forget to
                    2.0) check for at least 250 megs in free or "reclaimable"
                        disk space. This is the tricky bit.
                    \_ No. Use a compact linux distro; the lower end of
                       the range fits nicely within 4M or so. The rest of
                       the bloat can be bootstrapped later if the coder/victim
                       wants it. Maybe check for >=32M of memory so that
                       0 swap space won't become a fatal problem.
                \_ 5) Hire a good lawyer or prepare to join Kevin Mitnick
                      in computer exile.
                      \_ If you have the guts to not brag about it, ever,
                         this won't be a problem. Not that hard to cover all
                         tracks to a virus source; it's morons who leave
                         there name in the .doc headers that get busted (and
                         people like Mitnick who spend a lot of time doing
                         a lot of this; a singular incident is very difficult
                         to trace)
                         \_ But this is an e-mail virus, so the FBI just has
                            to check the carnivore logs for the first time they
                            saw it and track back from there.
                \_ 6) Start making "Free Me" web sites based on the "Free
                      Kevin" ones.
           \_ Formatting fixed. -motd formatting god-in-training
2000/7/18-19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18703 Activity:high
7/17    rpc.statd update for RedHat.  This came out today.  Get your update!
        fixes a potential remote-root breakin, though no exploit is known.
        \_ what's a physics Phd candidate doing as a sys adm? have you lost
           passion for what you study? or have you converted to a money
           loving academic hating industry whore?
        \_ Hmm, I only see smoke but no fire. This is not listed on the
           security advisories web page for redhat 6.2. Where did you get this
                \_ You can find the rpm at:
        \_ The update for this can be found at
           \_ You mean the fix.
                \_ I think once the linux box is fully updated, it has been
                   fixed.  Just semantics.  Either way, you get a better
                   system when you're done.
           \_ I believe you meant
                \_ Actually * will do.  Even does
                   better in many situations.  Is there *anything* Linux
                   does better besides attract hordes of wannabes and endless
                   flamefests over pointless philosophical issues over which
                   license is "purist"?
                   \_ ILOVEYOU
2000/7/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18645 Activity:very high
7/11    I want to run qmail on a UNIX box.  FreeBSD or Red Hat or Mandrake
        Linux?  Any particular recommendations?  I really want to spend
        "just enough" time on securing the machine (I'm assuming all of
        these are about the same in stability), and I've never administered
        FreeBSD before, though I know about the handbook.
        \_ unless you have a multi cpu box.  Reasonably
           secure on a default install.  Turn off all the random crap in
           /etc/services, disable inetd, etc and you should be fine for
           most purposes.
           \_ Thanks.  I just remember that guy on wall who was like
              "I'm clued, I disabled all the services, I did other things,
              but my Linux box got cracked anyway."
              \_ Then he did something stupid.
           \_ % telnet 80
              telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
              (I hope that isn't a sign.)
                \_ they'll probably claim it's a security feature that
                   their web server doesn't listen on the web port.  -tom
              \_ That's an IRIX box. No wonder it's down.
                \_ is hosted on U. Alberta's  SUNsite which
                   of course runs Solaris you moron.
              \_ Weird.  I'm pretty sure that was the URL.  Dunno.
        \_ Guess which one the script kiddies like. -muchandr
           \_ Your UNIX box?
        \_ FIREWALL!  Does wonders.  Its pretty hard to disable all the
           services, so disable what you can, and firewall the thing.
           \_ What's hard about disabling all the services?  Edit /etc/services
              and don't run inetd.  Scan your box afterwards just to make sure.
              You run the damned box.  Admin it properly.
2000/6/12-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18448 Activity:high
6/12    ANyone know if FreeBSD uses an inode per symbolic link?  --PeterM
        \_ Use the source luke, or build a freebsd system and try it yourself.
           \_ which is much more efficient than asking someone who might know.
        \_ I answered your question on wall already peterm (which is where
           you asked it originally). --jon
           \_ Missed your wall, jon.  Doh.  Thanks though. --PeterM
        \_ yes.  pretty sure all operating systems do.  -dpetrou
        \_ a symlink is a file. files use inodes.
            \_ Reiserfs can store very small files (like symlinks) without
               using an inode.  I wasn't sure FreeBSD didn't do that.  --PeterM
                \_ peterm sounds like a typical super bright wanna-be-tech
                   non-tech major
                        \_ gee I didn't know plasma simulations programming
                           was a non-tech "major".
                   \_ Yeah.  Maybe someday he'll wise up and go back to
                      hanging out with all his fratboy friends back at Haas,
                      where he belongs!
2000/6/11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18438 Activity:high
6/10    I'm looking whether there's any sort of PGP utility set for Win32
        (or Linux/FreeBSD) I can use with Netscape's mail client.  I've
        got the free PGPtools to play with, but they only seem to work
        on Outcrook or Eudora.  Any recommendations?  It doesn't have to
        be freeware.  -John
2000/6/5-6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18412 Activity:nil
4/65    I'm trying to install FreeBSD. Is there any way to download an
        image of the 4.0 Release disc and burn it myself?  If I don't make
        an installation CD per se, is it possible to use a CD-R to get
        the req'd files onto the install machine? (I don't want to make more
        than 2 or 3 floppies)
           Or use a mirror site. for more info.
2000/6/3-4 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18395 Activity:moderate
6/2     I've got a 300Mhz AMD K6-2 machine.  I tried installing linux on
        it, but that failed because of some known and no-longer-fixable
        problem on the processor.  Is there any reason to presume that a
        BSD install will also fail?
        \_ I've had FreeBSD running happily on an amd-k62-300 for a long
           time, with no problems at all. -meyers
2000/5/23-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18323 Activity:moderate
5/23    In FreeBSD how do you configure the machine to launch X during
        bootup?  In linux I know it's /etc/inittab but how do you do this
        in general inmost Un*x's? -clueless
                                  \_ Like, Duh!
        \_ There is no general Un*x way. RedHat does this its own way. Debian
           does their own way, Solaris configures dtlogin its own way and
           *BSD has a different way for configuring this. rtfm.
        \_ There are lots of ways.  Probably the best is to make a small xdm
           startup script and put it in /usr/X11R6/etc/rc.d/
           (all it needs is like:
           ) --dbushong
           \_ The correct way is to actiavate the correct option in /etc/rc.conf
              (in OpenBSD at least)
           \_ The correct way is to actiavate the corresponding option in
              /etc/rc.conf (in OpenBSD at least)
        \_ rtfm
            \_ or specifically section 9.6 of the FAQ, appropriately titled
               "How do I start XDM on boot?"
                \_ Use kdm . I do it at work and it was easy to configure.
                        iJust be aware that it screws up other ways of running X
                   Just be aware that it screws up other ways of running X
                        \_ Oh, nice.  So much for compatibility and choice.
2000/5/23-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Industry/Jobs] UID:18322 Activity:nil
5/23    Anyone have experience implementing KAME or any other sort of IPSEC
        tunnel on FreeBSD?  I'd appreciate it if someone could share their
        experience with me.  -John
2000/5/18-19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18290 Activity:high
5/17    okay, can someone explain to me this whole fbsd ports thing? i
        downloaded a package from, untar'ed it into the
        /usr/ports/ directory, and typed "make install" but got a bunch
        of error messages saying that the Makefile had bad syntax. is
        there something i'm missing here? -fu-less
        \_ trollP
        \_ Uh, here is a clue: package != ports collection. Once you have
           downloaded a binary package just run pkg_add packagename.tgz
           For help about ports collection see FreeBSD handbook on their
2000/5/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18278 Activity:very high
        \_ Hint: it generally isnt neccessary to have "index.html", or
           "index.htm" at the end of a URL. It just makes it that
           much uglier.
        \_ Wow.  Bill Joy found Berkeley computers so obsolete that he found
           it the perfect place to study theory.  I wonder if that says
           something about theory.
        \_ Article about BSD
        \_ "As a general rule, programmers tend to have a high opinion of
           themselves. "
           \_ ^programmers^people
        \_ Maybe what would be cool is if CSUA held a departmental history
           day where we get famous people like Allman, Wozniak, Joy etc. to
                        \_ Reply to this was nuked.  Tough shit.  Don't read
                           the motd if repetitive jokes bother you.
           come talk about the olden days and such.
           \_ Invite the UNABOMBER!
        \_ CSUA did the McKusick thing once. -- ilyas
                \_ tell us about the stars!
                    \_ what is this all about? why do we make fun of ilyas?
                        is he clueless?                 -newbie to motd
                        \_ he's one of these commi spies who think they're
                                             \_ commie
                           above us all intellectually just because he's
                           into AI.
                           \_ No, you have got me all wrong.  It pains me
                              deeply everytime some astute motd poster
                              points back to that 'stars' conversation on
                              wall, since it reminds me of the depths of my
                              ignorance on the essential nature of
                              intelligence.  The brilliant minds on
                              soda wall have certainly set me straight once
                              and for all on that, and many other topics.
                                -- ilyas
                                   \_ This sounds like sarcasm.
                                      \_ Bright boy.
                                   \_ emergent behavior?
                                   \_ Wow, ilyas, you're like, y'know, almost
                                      smart or something.
                                        \_ He's catching up to the stars.
                                        \_ we're dying.  dying... -- the stars
2000/5/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18261 Activity:low
5/15      How do I use the freebsd ports system to install
          a program, let's say in ~/bin, if I don't have root
          \_ set $PREFIX --sowings
             \_ #f.  LOCALBASE=${HOME} --jon
2000/5/15-16 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18260 Activity:very high
5/15    I'm still waiting for the old motd.  Would someone remind
        me who has the CVS going?
        \_ Unlink aluminum cans, the motd is not a useful item to recycle
           or reuse.
        \_ No.  Besides, who needs to see recycled threads about TeX and geeks
           \_ Topics for further discussion:
           drooling over Playboy models/whining about their sexless lives
           anyway?  Post something brand new and start the cycle over again.
           anyway?  Post over something the again new and cycle start brand.
              -- psb baiting and teasing.  -psb #1 fan
           \_ Suggested topics for further discussion:
                 \_ Dude, _I'm_ a superstud, just like tjb.
              -- Dating, sex, and relationships (or geekly lack thereof)
                 \_ nvi rules.
              -- Emacs vs. vi
                 \_ Use mutt, save time.
              -- Mutt vs. pine vs. elm vs. mh vs. "telnet localhost 25"
                 \_ Industry pays better.
              -- the inherent dangers of the biotech industry
                 \_ Feh.
              -- Academia vs. industry
              -- bh
                 \_ I heard bh on the radio tonight.  He was the most
                    reasonable guy on there.
                 \_ Ship him off to a communist country.
                        \_ Fuck bh.
                           \_ what are the odds on that happening?
                                \_ bh can hire a hooker.  Some might do it.
                 \_ Mmm.  Small penismobiles.
              -- Asian women and white guys (and the ever-popular companion
        \_ But I really wanted someone to let me recompile pine.
                 topic, "What's up with those guys who drive the lowered Hondas
                 with the noisy mufflers and all the stickers?")
                 mainframe in the bottom of a salt mine in Utah. Should I leave
              -- "I get $<x> per year to do <y>. Am I being underpaid? I've got
                 an offer for $<x + some positive quantity> per year to
                 \_ You are being underpaid, but so am I.
                 Utah bottom mine the in in a salt of mainframe. I leave Should
                 \_ yermom.
                 maintain a database written in COBOL running on an IBM
                 \_ You stud.
                 mainframe at the bottom of salt mine in Utah. I leave Should
                 my job in the Bay Area and move to Utah?"
                           \_ I don't really need to comment on this.
                        \_ Yes.  But ask for more options.
                 \_ My god.  He's full of shit^H^H^Htars.
              -- yermom
              -- tjb
                 \_ Look! yermom is on top of tjb.
                 \_ BSD.
              -- "What's up with those cyclists who never stop at stop signs?"
                 \_ You misspelled spelling.
                        \_ RIDE BIKE!  USE LINUX!
                        \_ What's up with those cyclists who never stop at
                           stop signs?
                 \_ Off cliff.
                        \_ RIDE BIKE!  USE LINUX!  ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!
              -- ilyas and the stars
                        \_ BSD for work.  Windows for games.  The rest in the
                 \_ Hey sky, what's your girlfriend's phone number?
                 \_ Its quite flattering that you think about me so much.
                    You occupy 0% of my free cycles. .....  You probably
                    think its quite funny to get a rise out of me.  But
                    lest you forget, can't you see the sign?  DONT TEASE
                    THE MONKEYS!  You know what happens when you tease the
                    monkeys?  THEY GET PISSED AND THROW MONKEY CRAP ALL
                    OVER YOU. -- sky

        \_ But I really wanted someone to let me recompile pi
              \_ mighty mouse vs. superman discussion
                           \_ No. Linux to the neighbor who has never used
                              anything other than Windows.
                              \_ they might as well just stay with Windows then.
                              \_ Uh huh.  Provide a fucked up and poor designed
                                 and a bitch to configure *nix to a newbie? Do
                                 you suggest teaching children to use a unicycle
                                 before they learn to ride a tricycle?
              -- Linux vs. BSD vs. Windows vs. MacOS
              -- grammar and speling flames
              -- RIDE BIKE!
              -- sky, that krad kriminal and what he currently charges for use
                 of his 'gf'
                        \_ Free.
        \_ But I really wanted someone to let me recompile pine.
        \_ I love how this actually *started* discussions. Sweet irony.
                \_ It was intentional.  Wsa that not obvious?
                   \_ Oh, you were serious?! I assumed you were being sarcastic.
2000/5/12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS] UID:18243 Activity:high
5/11    How does one rm a file named "????????????"  ?  -joshk
        \_ rm ./? <hit tab>
        \_ You must have strong fu.
        \_ "rm -i \?*" is one of several ways.
                \_ % rm -i \?\?\?\?\?*
                   rm: ?????*: No such file or directory
                   Must resort to inode fu now.
                   \_ of course not. you must practice. there are many ways,
                      but noone can be told. you must learn. -ali
                   \_ It's probably not all question marks; some terminals
                      will replace non-printables and/or 128+ chars with
                      ?'s [default on FreeBSD when outputting to a tty].
                      The simplest way is most likely just going
                      through `rm -i *` and finding the offending file.
                      To make things faster, do `rm -i [^a-zA-Z0-9]*` or
                      something to that extent. -alexf
        \_ What usually works for me when I come across a file with odd
           characters is "rm -i *" and say yes to only the file in question.
           \_ But how many questions must you answer until you answer
              the question for the question file in question?
        \_ note that rm -i will append an extra "?" to the prompts
           so make sure you remove ???????????? and not ???????????
        \_ I know I'll get flack for this, but don't you have a gui interface
           on your OS?  Use it, click on the file, and press DEL.
2000/5/6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18185 Activity:nil
4/35    FreeBSD is really stable.
2000/5/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18161 Activity:insanely high 66%like:18159
4/33    CSUA Fall 2000 Poll of What the officers run Results:

                     President:  paolo (linux - slackware)
                     \_ I thought Paolo's OS of the week was OpenBSD,
                         becasue he's a '1337 H@x0r, and it's kR@d to be
                         into security.
                        \_ No. It's cool not to get fucked over by the latest
                           buffer over flow bug in Linux/Windows.
                Vice-President:  mikeh (bsd - FreeBSD)
                     Secretary:  lye (linux - redhat)
                     \_ He "wants" to run RedHat, but uses Win9x.
                        \_ taking 162 == barely enough time to wash hair,
                           let alone install 31337 h2x@r os... besides,
                           computers suck.  i think an iroc-z would get
                           me more wimmin. -lye
                     Treasurer:  ajani (linux - debian)
                     Librarian:  ][e (linux - ppc)
                     \_ Does 2e even run Linux on his own computer?
                        AFAIK, he uses MacOS.
                        \_ he's on a research group.  Dual Xeon sits on
                           his desk.  It's running linux.  I don't think
                           he even uses his laptop anymore (it's broken
                           and sent back to apple)
                           \_ It's a Dual PIII, and is shared by everyone
                              in that group.
                              I'd be really impressed to see you
                              get LinuxPPC on a x86.
        "And lo, as fortold by the prophets, it has come to pass that
        the Daemon giveth way."
        \_ I thought Paolo's OS of the week was OpenBSD,
            becasue he's a '1337 H@x0r, and it's kR@d to be
                 into security.
                 \_ No. It's cool not to get fucked over by the latest
                    buffer over flow bug in Linux/Windows.
        Vice-President:  mikeh (bsd - FreeBSD)
        Secretary:  lye (linux - redhat)
        \_ He "wants" to run RedHat, but uses Win9x.
           \_ taking 162 == barely enough time to wash hair,
                   let alone install 31337 h2x@r os... besides,
                   computers suck.  i think an iroc-z would get
                   me more wimmin. -lye
        Treasurer:  ajani (linux - debian)
        Librarian:  ][e (linux - ppc)
        \_ Does 2e even run Linux on his own computer?
                AFAIK, he uses MacOS.
           \_ he's on a research group.  Dual Xeon sits on
              his desk.  It's running linux.  I don't think
              he even uses his laptop anymore (it's broken
              and sent back to apple)
              \_ It's a Dual PIII, and is shared by everyone
                 in that group.  I'd be really impressed to see you
                 get LinuxPPC on a x86.
        "And lo, as fortold by the prophets, it has come to pass that
        the Daemon giveth way."
        \_ The Dreaming Tree has died.
        \_ Paolo is president again? What kind of morons vote for this moron?
                                      \_ You moron.
           \_ A good thing the VP was someone with OS choice clue.
              \_ I heard mikeh invented the Internet.
        \_ mikeh can't be VP forever.  in 2 years,  Soda will be linux.
           I just hope not redhat.
           \_ The alumni will never allow such heresy.  (Just remember
                who bought Soda Mk V.)
           \_ So, besides becoming more of a target for script kiddies,
              what benefits would Linux on Soda bring?  None of the people
              who really want to switch to the trendier option (ie
              just Paolo) can explain how Linux would work better
              on Soda. -mikeh
              \_ Oh, that's not the argument.  Fact: after mikeh, there
                 aren't any new users using bsd that I've seen hanging
                 around the office/wanting to be vp. Therefore, in the
                 future, unless the alums are _really_ nice and chummy,
                 the future admin will probably use what 0S she/he is
                 familiar with. - paolo (who doesn't plan to run for
                 VP any time soon)
                 \_ The VP does not have unilateral control over everything
                    on soda.  The alumni offer a great deal of support to
                    soda; I plan to do likewise when I graduate, but if some
                    new clueless hotshot comes along and tears out all the
                    work that we've done, I'll be significantly less motivated
                    to help.  Besides, it's sad that nobody, yourself included
                    Paolo, is willing to learn and work with something that's
                    not the latest trend. -mikeh
                    \_ i ran freebsd on my old box. I don't anymore.
                       I don't have that much school spirit I guess.
                       \_ What does school spirit have to do with it?
                          \_ 'bout the only reason to run BSD.
                                \_ Kewlness being the only reason to run Linux
                  \_ You know, none of the CSUA members ran Dynix at home.
                     Only Alan (AFAIK) ran Domain_OS at home. Yet that's
                     what soda ran for years n' years. Yet somehow, the VPs
                     of that day and age were familiar with those OSes. How
                     do you figure that could have been?  -- fuddy duddy
                        \_ We need a kewle OS on soda so it can run slower
                           with more hardware and be down every other day
                           for kernel 'upgrades' and buffer overflow bugs.
                        \_ I've still got that Apollo if anyone wants it.
                           68030/16Mhz, 8Mb RAM, 170Mb ESDI HD -alan-
                 \_ Only blojo is naysayer --pld
              \_ WAAAAh.  You mean you ugrads aren't compleetely under my
                 power?  WAAAAAh.  I'm going to take my toys and go home.
                 WAAAh.  Lameness.
             \_ Hey, is the TDA up and running?  Vadim got it running raid
                with linux (dbl ended).  How's fbsd with that raid?
                \_ Works fine.  What do you think the TDA was running
                   when it was in service?
                   \_ !freebsd 4.0?
                        \_ Yeah, fbsd 4.0 was the first version of fbsd.
                   \_ FreeBSD 3.x, courtesy of Satoshi Asami.
        \_ Hi.  In case you haven't heard.  We have mark 6 now.  this wasn't
           an alumni donation.
           \_ I like speaking.  In short sentences.  Because I'm cool.
           \_ Well, I guess that's that.  Current student body has no need
              for dinoalumni.  We have no value (until you become one and
              need a job or a clue).  It's time to go ahead and wipe all
              the alumni accounts.  Makes more room for pr0n and in
                  BERKELEY TO HURT YOU
              /var/spool/mail for those unable to figure out how to use a
              real mail program and .forward files.
              \_ Not all alumns are viscious dour naysayers.
                \_ And some of us even know how to spell.  Maybe we'll get a
                   Redhat RPM for /usr/bin/motdspell.
                \_ no, we're viscous dour naysayers.  -John
                   \_ yes. slippery as eels in magma.
2000/4/23-25 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:18091 Activity:very high
4/23  The must-have O'Reilly nutshell book
        \_ Have you showered or had sex at anytime in the last 15 years?
           Have you learned to use the TAB key, yet?  Acquired the smallest
           shreds of a sense of humor, maybe?  Keep working at it.
      \_ Do the books have new stuff are they just the online stuff in
         book form?
         \_ the online stuff. But this is worth the $12 just to show
            the genuine o'reilly title on your bookshelf :-)
            \_ Worth it if you're tripping all over yourself to show people
               that you're a total fucking loser geek, I guess.  I'm sure it
               fits nicely in that blank space on your bookshelf right
               between the English-Klingon dictionary and the binder that
               holds your lovlingly xeroxed SCA guide on how to make your
                           \_ KA'BAH!  You want 'The Tragedy of Khamlet,
                              Son of the Emperor Qo'nos', by
                              Wil'yam Shax'pir.
               holds your lovingly xeroxed SCA guide on how to make your
               own armor.
      \_ umm, user friendly is like hte definition of not funny
                \_ I tried to read it a few times.  It was a waste.  I've
                   since purged my mind of the unpleasantness.
         \_ it's amazing how many non-UNIX folks still manage to aquire,
            and then use, soda accounts. Or maybe you just feel offended
            that iliad could dare make fun of the Open/Net/FreeBSD
            \_ ANY student enrolled in UC Berkeley may apply and receive
               csua membership and an account on the machine at soda.csua
               - paolo
               \_ Paolo, read the CSUA FAQ for once in your life:
    1. How do I get a soda account?
       Soda accounts are ONLY for members of the CSUA. The CSUA is not an
       account provider -- we are an organization for people with an
       members of the ASUC may be active (voting) members, but other
       eligible folks are welcome to participate in CSUA activites and
       make use of our resources. We expect our members to be at least
       somewhat computer literate, and to have an interest in learning
       and experimenting. Because of that, and the fact that our staff
       are all volunteers, we don't serve the users in the same way
       someplaces like the OCF does. This doesn't mean soda is
       especially unreliable or uncared for, it just means we expect
       people to be better able to fend for themselves.
            that iliad could dare make fun of the Open/Net/FreeBSD
       interest in computers and computer science. Any U.C. Berkeley
      living everyday thanking Tourvalds.
       student, faculty, or staff is eligible to become a member. Only
        \_ thank you for agreeing with me
                \_ user friendly is about as funny as being stuck in a
                   room with a bunch of soft, puffy, geeks who last
                   showered in '93 and keep parrotting bits from monty
                   python and hitchhicker's guide.  -aspo
                   \_ Dude, these are the sort of people who wrote the OS
                      you run, the networking protocols you indirectly
                      make a living off of.  So they can't all be rectally
                      fixated biker studs like you.  Go hangout with your
                      well-adjusted loser friends and leave the geeks alone.
                      \_ well for one I don't do ecommerce crap.  Networking
                         protocols don't have anything to do with what I do
                         for a living.  And yay.  So a bunch of smelly,
                         need-to-die geeks have written a bunch of computer
                         software.  Some of that software is worth using.
                         %99.99 percent of it is as much crap as the worthless
                         lives of the sad little sexless acne-scarred twits
                         who wrote it. -aspo
                         \_ What the fuck are you doing on soda, you evil
                            little twit?
                      \_ Uh, yeah, tell me more about "Illiad", uber-hacker
                         extraordinaire.  Perhaps Illiad was an early member
                         of the CSRG, responsible for most of 2BSD?  Or maybe
                         Illiad stood at the shoulder of timid young newbie
                         hacker Richard Stallman, making gentle suggestions
                         that would later form a life philosophy?  Or did he
                         write one of those Johhny-come-lately "DUD3, L1NUX
                         1Z WAY K-RAD!!!1!!" 10-dimensional 76-bit-color
                         window managers that you wannbe-UNIX-folk are always
                         so fond of arguing over?  Real men use twm.  And
                         they don't read User Friendly.
                         \_ ED! ED! ED is the STANDARD!
   \_ so geeks, wrote the OS, they have fame and they have $$$.  I'm not
      living everyday thanking Tourvalds, Behlendorf, and Ylonen.
                \_ It's likely I was a "UNIX folk" when you were still in
                   grade school.  I find the comic to be painfully unfunny
                   because it simply lacks any form of humor.  It just isn't
                   funny and not in the Berkeley, "How many lesbians does it
                   take?" way.
                   \_ Ah. I see your problem is just that you're an old
                      curmugeon, who has already heard every joke in existance,
                      back in 1950.
                      Yes, there are stupid ones. But only about 1%.
                \_ is much more amusing.
                   \_ sluggy is just as bad.
                \_ <DEAD><DEAD> is much more amusing.
                \_ is much more amusing.
                \_ to choose for yourself.
                \_ is better than stoned gay sex.
                        \_ BBoCS!
                \_ http:// is better than flying fetuses
2000/4/18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18045 Activity:high
4/18    it has been confirmed tha the IBM 240 is a hardware-wise linux
        compatible machine, and the lucent winmodem does work under
        linux (you just need the kernel module from
        everything just works (tm). Just in case ppl were thinking of
        buying a laptop. - paolo (yes, I tried BSD first, couldn't get modem
        to work - and it was open bsd 2.6 and then fbsd 4.0)
        \_ FreeBSD is an OS living in the past.  I mean they used to say they
           had better 'process' than Linux, but that's not even true anymore,
           what with them botching the last few releases.
                \_ Go away, troll.  Linux is for fun, BSD for work.  Don't
                   mix your work with youre religion.  At the end of the day,
                                      \_ English 1B.
                   no one cares what license you use or 'process' produced
                   the OS, so long as it's open and it works and you don't
                   have to rebuild the kernel every third day to keep it
                   \_ BSD doesn't support new hardware, so it doesn't work,
                      like paolo pointed out above.
                      \_ That seems kind of asinine. I bought hardware that
                         I knew would work with fBSD, and it works fine. Can
                         you say that fBSD doesn't work for me?
                         \_ Uh, so you are saying I should be forced into
                            buying certain hardware if I want to run fBSD?
                            Old hardware?  That's not very FREE, now is it?
                            I thought FreeBSD and Linux were about FREEDOM?
2000/4/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18036 Activity:high
4/17    Why do you people think linux sucks (other than the fact that it
        is now popular and you are all reactionaries).  I have used BSD
        and linux both.  I like BSD slightly better except that there are
        no virtual terminals and i can't fix that myself  where as the
        lack of "wheel" I certainly can.  -user111
        \_ gee, I have 12 virtual terminals on my freebsd machine. you must suck
           \_ Yes, but i suck *well*.  So, i was wrong, both have
              Virt. Terminals my question stands.
         \_ Not trying to fan the flames you ignited but... Linux has this
           really terrible mushed-together feeling.  Like there's no real
           theme or overall concept behind where everything goes in the file
           system, how to configure the different parts of the OS, command
           line options aren't consistent, etc.  Mostly my beef with Linux is
           the apparent random nature of configuation.  OpenBSD and FreeBSD
           aren't like that (don't use netBSD).  They both have this really
           polished, well-thought-out feeling to them.  They're really
           consistent and I raraely find myself saying, "WTF did they do it
           like that for?" with a BSD machine.
        \_ yeah, it's completely obvious that mailing lists should go
           in "/csua/share/aliases.include", and that "/usr/local" should
           mean "the place you install system software".  Get a clue.  -tom
           \_ Were you born with that cactus up your ass or did it grow there
              later in a freak lab accident?  And no /csua/* isn't in anyway
              a BSD, Linux, or other standard.  It should have been
              /usr/local/csua, btw.  Don't use soda as an example of anything
              but a mish mash of both good and really terrible sysadmining.
              It shows.
2000/4/7-8 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17954 Activity:nil 58%like:17951
4/9     Open BSD 2.6, Laptop, pros/cons?
2000/4/7 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17951 Activity:nil 58%like:17954
4/8     Open Bsd current supports my laptop.  Any pro's/ cons to running
        OpenBSD on it? (or a laptop in general).
2000/4/1-3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17903 Activity:nil
4/1    DHCP for bsd.  where are docs?
       \_ man dhclient (at least on FreeBSD 4.0) --dbushong
2000/3/23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17833 Activity:high
3.22a   Related to below, somwhat:
        So, BSD is more secure than linux because there are more rootkits
        available for linux?  Don't we also have to narrow it down to what
        is running, daemon and userprocesses?
                \-i didnt say the above. i said "more linux machines are
        broken into then BSD machine" --psb
        \_ BSD is more secure because it isn't a kiddy toy.  On every interview
           I go to where they're using linux, I ask why linux instead of some
           thing else such as bsd or solaris, etc, and they never know.  It's
           just that linux is cool and they don't know anything else.  Good
           hype and PR and no backbone just like MS.  Linux = the MS of the
           unix world.  There's better but nothing kewler.
                \-i didnt say the above. i said "more linux machines are
        broken into then BSD machine" --psb
        \_ ah but is that just because there are statistically less BSD
           machines? I don't wnat to start a holy war, because I'm just
           trying to decide what's best to put on a laptop right now
           freebsd or linux, the only port open would be sshd on either
           i was going to go with linux because of driver support - paolo
                \-there are "statistically" more linux rootkits --psb
           \_ Linux. Friends of my at work who use FreeBSD on laptops
              (dell, toshiba and ibm thinkpads) say that Linux has better
              driver support for PCMCIA cards like ethernet and scsi. Also,
              linux supposedly has better support for the onboard video
              cards in some of the older toshibas and thinkpads. And Linux
              is somewhat better with the power management bios (apm).
              \_ This is generic bullshit.  Check the supported cards list and
                 if BSD supports what's in your laptop, then use it.  If you're
                 lazy, sloppy, and stupid, you'll RIDE BI-- I mean USE LINUX!
                 just because "friends of my at work say...".
                 \_ Linux is easier to install on laptops than FreeBSD, and
                    its device support for "end-user" gadgets such as
                    PCMCIA and sound cards is better and more straightforward;
                    however, once I got it working on my laptop, I found
                    FreeBSD a lot nicer to work with in terms of reliability
                    and transparency.  -John
2000/3/23 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17830 Activity:high
3/22    is there a list of supported pcmcia cards for freebsd?
        \_ L1unkz r00lez!
        \_ Yeah, I believe it's under  I think
           they did a lot of work on the cardbus stuff, so under 4.0-
           RELEASE pcmcia ought to work better than it has under 3.x
           (sketchy at best.)  Also, there's a FreeBSD implementation
           specifically aimed at laptops, called PAO.  It's at
           <DEAD>'ve<DEAD> found it a bit goofy to work with,
           but it's always worked for me.  -John
2000/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:17769 Activity:high
3/15    What this the meaning of "biff" (as in a program's name) ?
        \_ />00/> \/\/|-|47"5 7|-|15 /<-R4/> P%0G%4|\/| U 54Y?!?!
        4 |\|0 %3450|\| 1 G07 A \/\/00/>%0\/\/ 7|-|3 5123  0F
                \_ and why is biff sometimes related to this unreadable
                        \_ 0bveuslee UR n0t 318 enuf 2 reede b1ff skr1pt!11
        \ eYe cunt r34d ths sh1t.
          \_ "Dood what's this k-rad program you say?!?!
             "For no reason I got a Woodrow the size of Everest!!!"
        \_ man 1 biff: it tells you when you have new mail.
           \_ I know what biff does. I was wondering what the word "biff"
              \_ Read the man page I pointed you at. "The biff command
                 appeared in 4.0BSD. It was name after the dog of Heidi
                 Stettner. He died in August 1993, at 15."
                 \_ That's sad if true.
                    \_ I believe it is. The foldoc entry is relevent and seems
                       to confirm it. Say, I wonder if anyone on soda was
                       there when they were developing BSD? Could be we have
                       someone who knew Biff.
                 See "biff", "b1ff".
2000/2/14-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17505 Activity:kinda low
2.14    Is it possible under linux/fbsd to run a ricochet (using a usb->9pin)
        adapter from a usb port?
        \_ Seen it under FreeBSD.  Your mileage may vary.
           \_ Works under linux, you need star ip (or something like it) enabled
              when you build your kernel.
2000/2/11-13 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17493 Activity:high
2/11    Responce to C, C++, new grad, love for comp sci, love for $$$, 1 word:
              \_ The smart ones learn to spell or run a spell checker.
                \_ And how to count words.
        The dumb and greedy ones work in the industry
        \_ think C++, Bell Labs.
                \_ C++ is a perfect example of industry stupidity.
        The smart ones go back to academia
        It is as simple as that.
        \_ the smart, greedy ones go work in 'XYZ labs'
        \_ Have a cookie, troll.
        \_ This is not true, as all of the major contributions to cs have been
           mostly performed by industry. Without AT&T there would be no Unix
           (BSD or otherwise). Without Sun we would be stuck with RFS.
           \_ And without Berkeley we wouldn't have the 50 million BSD
              derivatives, RISC, RAID, IEEE 754, yadayadaya.  Incidentally,
              they all seem to come from Berkeley.  So you can conclude that
              all major contributions come from Berkeley and industry.
                        \_ Stanford is usually given equal credit with UCB
                           for RISC (look at Patterson & Hennssey for example)
                \_ I would concur that the Berkeley <-> Silicon Valley has
                   created the Academic-Industrial Complex.
              \_ RISC?  RAID? 754?  Hardly as important as UNIX.  Nice but
                 trivially obvious and would have been done by someone, some
                 where in due time.
                 \_ Two other contributions of industry include OpenFirmware
                    and FireWire. I don't think that academics ever came up
                    with ideas like those. But at the same time, X windows
                    was quite a good idea from academia. Sun would have saddled
                    us with news or openlook or some other stupid interface.
                    \_ Uh, I think most people agree that the X architecture
                       is ... well broken.
                        \_ NeWS was a much better architecture, but X was open
                           source, so it won unfortunately.
                                \_ RIDE BIKE! wins again for no particular
                                   reason.  One day the 'best' software will
                                   win.  Not the most politically correct.
                        \_ Not sure I agree.  When it came out it was amazingly
                           overweight and bloated, but by modern standards,
                           it's fairly svelt, and it's suited to transparent
                           network redisplay, which I thank X for almost
                           every day.
              \_ Oh, and there was also that stupid visiting prof who
                 discovered how to matrix multiply in O(n^2.7) instead of
                 O(n^3) which in many implementations turns out to be
                 slower anyway but only wacked out math people like ilyas
                 care about crap like that.
                 \_ Variations on Strassen's algorithm are pushing on
                    O(n^2.3) or something like that now.  At any rate, while
                    I am not sure if anyone actually uses Strassen's in
                    practice, I do know that sometimes a tighter upper bound
                    on the running time can make all the difference in the
                    world.  Fast Fourier Transforms and Pearl's belief
                    propagation algorithms come to mind as good examples.
                    -- ilyas
                        \_ Strassen's is pointless on today's hardware,
                           where mults are as cheap as adds. In the past,
                           \_ aren't multiplies still slightly more expensive
                              due to the 32 or 64 element carry save adds.
                              i don't think any digital design allows for
                              a 64 level deep logic in one clock cycle
                              for power and performance reasons.
                           and maybe again in the future, Strassen's
                           might actually be useful :) -nick
                        \_ Yawn.  Oh, were you saying something?
                           \_ Shove it, asshole. If you're so ignorant as to
                              completely disregard the importance of strict
                              mathematical thinking in CS, go to the industry,
                              bury yer ass in some QA dept and be a mindless
                              drone as much as you wish. Otherwise, have a
                              cookie. -- not ilyas
                                \_ tell us about the stars
                                \_ "Do it my way or you're an ignorant QA
                                    drone!!!  My way is the only way to the
                                    Purity and the Truth!  I am CS Tao!!!"
                                    Oh uhm, were you saying something?  I
                                    was distracted by a passing fleck of
                                    something more important than your
                                    opinion.  I think it was a bit of pocket
                                    lint floating gently to the floor.
           \_ Or Andrew.  God forbid!
                \_ or Mach and Kerberos.
        \_ Do the smart ones go back to academia and GET A FUCKING DICTIONARY
           or SPELLCHECKER?!   --greedy dummy in industry with SPELLCHECKER
2000/2/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:17450 Activity:high
2/6     What is the best way to do load balancing using Apache? Is there
        such thing as a load balancing HW router that can re-route based on
        HTTP header request (in the application layer)?
        \_ Cisco's Local Director. F5's stuff.
           \_ I first liked F5, and then their boxes started crashing with
              extensive load. If you use any SSL connections, [SSL requires
              session state], than don't go with F5.
        \_ also arrowpoint, or if you dont want to spend $20k per box, you can
           use the FREE linux virtual server.
                \_ Unless you want a stable and functional system for your
                   multi million dollar web corporation.
                   \_ Hey, if you have a multimillion dollar web corporation
                       then you wont mind paying $50k for a proper commercial
                       \_ First rule of coporate IS management.  Why hack
                         something when you can just BUY it?
                         \_ Exactly my point.  If you _need_ load balancing,
                            you can afford to _buy_ load balancing and the
                            price is just the cost of doing business.  No big
                            deal.  If you wince at the price, you didn't need
                            it (even if you thought you did).  If you were
                            being sarcastic, which I think you were, I have
                            intentionally ignored the sarcasm because what you
                            say is true whether you think so or not.  I don't
                            run my systems on a "hack".
                        \_ Except that what you get probably is an x86 PC
                        with a slightly modified Linux or *BSD on it. Just put
                        it in a fancy sealed case, call it ... "appliance" and
                        demand an exorbitant amout of money for it. Works
                        every time. The oldest product on the load balancing
                        router market is Coyote Point Equalizer and it uses
                        FreeBSD.        -muchandr
                        \_ Yup and I get tech supprt and I keep my job when it
                           keels over and I know there are people on the other
                           side working on it everyday to keep their jobs, not
                           just for kicks when they feel like it.  If you can't
                           afford the price, you didn't need it.  Try telling
                           the CEO that you saved him $20k but killed his
                           company.  It'll go much easier if you can point a
                           finger at the vendor and pressure them to fix it
                           *now*.  If you're running your own startup, you can
                           try explaining to the VC's how you saved $20k of
                           their money but lost the $15m+ they gave you in
                           funding.  Welcome to the business world.  CYA.
2000/2/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17407 Activity:high 66%like:17750
2/2     Can we get StarOffice installed on soda? thanks
        \_ That bloated incompatible memory and cpu hogging heap of junk?
           Only if root has suddenly become exceptionally stupid.  Can I run
           an xtrek server and a mud on soda too?
        \_ First you must find a FreeBSD version of StarOffice and a reason
            you should run it over the net instead of on your local machine.
            \_ StarOffice 5.1 is supposed to run under Linux compatibility
               mode, but for me (and a few others) does "exciting" things
               instead.  This, of course, has nothing to do with the question.
                \_ Didn't linux compat mode panic soda's kernel last time it
                   was turned on?
2000/1/30-2/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17375 Activity:nil
1/30    Let's say I want to run an IMAP server from my BSD box at home, but
        I want something like SSL, Kerberos (or ???) for better security.
        Any suggestions/tips on what software to choose? What is easier to
        set up or better to use?  Thanks.
        \_ Use UW IMAP server and sslwrap or stunnel.  All of the parts are
           in ports, you just have to put them together.  --dbushong
        \_ ssh port forwarding
        \_ Depends on what you are trying to be interoperable with. If you
           decide what OS etc. both ends are running, look at IPsec. It is
           out for NetBSD, comes with OpenBSD, and you can probably find it
           for Free. Otherwise you are probably trying to work with some
           windows or other client, so, yeah, SSL....
           \_ Depending on what OS you're using on the client side, you
              may not necessarily want to muck with IPsec yet, since, while
              most implementations if it work, they don't necessarily work
              with each other.  If getting your mail is just one of the
              things you'd like to do in relative security over the net,
              you should think about ssh port forwarding, like motd clone
              #2 above recommends.  -John
2000/1/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17351 Activity:insanely high
1/26    When do you use ps -ef?  When do you use ps -aux?
                        \_ Never. ps -ef must die (along with sysV versions
                           of du and df).
                           alias ps="/usr/ucb/ps" (csh my die too but that's
                           a different topic) -sysadm
                           \_ Better yet, put /usr/ucb first in your path.
                                \_ /usr/ucb should be last on your path
                                   (or not in it at all) if you compile
                                   software on Solaris and don't want to
                                   experience great pain
                        \_ sysV ps has a number of advantages over ucb.  -tom
                          \_ and a large number of disadvantages.
                             ps aux shows all memory. I think that's about it.
        \_ By the way, is there a way to get the functionality of the -f
           switch (print family tree) of the linux version of ps on solaris
           versions of ps?
                \_ /usr/proc/bin/ptree
                \_ RIDE BIKE!
        \_ Oh boy.  4.4  > 5.4
        \_ ignoring the possibility that this is a troll...we all gotta start
           somewhere... ps -ef == sysV (e.g., Solaris) -aux == BSD
           (e.g., FreeBSD)
                \_ half-baked mess that's not either == Linux
                        \_ That Linux is not either BSD or sysv I agree
                                (It is G N U / L I N U X !)
                           That it is half-baked and a mess I disagree.
2000/1/27-28 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17349 Activity:high
1/26    Are the security benefits of mounting /usr partition in read-only
        mode worth the trouble of rebooting your server whenever you install
        OS patches or updates?  -sysadm
                \- this isnt worth doing ... at least not on solaris.
                spend a little more energy on keeping md5 checksums --psb
                \_ an ounce of prevention is wourth a pound of
                  "AAAa! We've been hacked, FIX IT!"
        \_ Depends on your needs.  Extra security vs convenience. In general,
           I'd say don't do stuff like this unless you're sure you need to.
           That you have to ask says you probably don't need it.
        \_ Most of the time you have to reboot after installing OS patches &
           updates anyway.
           \_ Ok I will modify my question. What about simple and yet
              important updates that DON'T require a reboot. I'd rather
              restrart a service than reboot. -sysadm
      \_   what's going to stop some cracker from just remounting /usr r/w,
        changing stuff, and then having a ball ?   I dont see
        any benefit in the world of mounts with -o remount or -u (bsd)  -ERic
                \_ The only security benfit is to block script kiddies.
                    Crackers with half a clue can get right past it.
        \_ You NEED TO BE ROOT to remount. the whole point is to make it
           more difficult for them to get it
        \_ Eye 0wn3d y00!111
2000/1/25-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17319 Activity:nil
1/24    Anybody know of a way to deal with mail encoded in ms-tnef format
        on FreeBSD systems like soda?  I heard of a program called fentun,
        but it seems to run only on Linux and Windows.  Thanks.
        \_ Then why not Linux emulation under FreeBSD?
2000/1/4-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17155 Activity:moderate
1/5     What's a bsd dist that will intall on a 386-25Mhz, 4MB ram, 120 MB HD
        machine. (This is just meant to be an educational endeavour, not a
        dev box- i.e. a box a young'un can mess around with unix on). - paolo
        \_ Dos 6.22!!!
        \_ EdBSD!!!
                \_ Is that standard?
                   \_ Operating system.
        \_ You can get a pretty minimal NetBSD on there. -ERic
        \_ I once tried SCO Unix 3.2.0 on a 386SX-16 4MB with a Hercules
           display and it ran fine.  The OS wasn't free though.
        \_ mconst got freebsd to install on a system like that once.
        \_ I bet you could install netbsd's base.tgz on that, at least.    -brg
        \_ I've installed OS/2 on less....
           \_ But have you installed less on OS/2?
                \_ It sort of ran.  I installed one thing on it.  You decide.
2000/1/1-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17145 Activity:nil
01/01   How do I view past motd file in ~mehlhaff?
        \_ Run 'less ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v' and then hit '/FreeBSD<return>'
          \_ oh puhleese.  just check out whatever version you want with 'co'
             \_ um, and how much of a pain is that on a file where version
                numbers mean nothing?
                \_ It's not, because you check out by date.  man co.
                   \_ ah yes, at 9:52 AM on December 13th someone responded
                      to my comment on modern politics.
              \_ Really?  You find checking out dozens of different versions
                 of the file to be easier than running one command and paging
                 through the various changes made over time?  I find viewing
                 with less gives a much better sense of the history of the
                 changes for much less work than using co.
1999/12/23-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17093 Activity:low
12/23   FWIW, CS162 for spring has listed McKusick's "Design of 4.4BSD"
        as a recommended text... which just might mean that we're getting
        a Real OS Class finally.
        \_ "Design and Implementation of 4.4BSD" has been a recommended text
           for CS162 for quite a few years already, what cave have you been
           living in?
        \_ You mean doing Nachos wasn't a real OS class?  (I was before the
           Nachos time but I heard about it.)
           \_ I just took the course.  162 is not an OS Class per se, to quote
              the 1st day lecture:

"This is a systems class designed to familiarize you with the tradeoffs
an OS makes, so you, the programmer, can better write applications to
run on that OS."

        \_ note that the first thing the teaching staff did this semester was
           a full port to windows via cygwin.  BSD is dead to the teaching
           dept here.  Dead and gone for the ugrads.  Even harvey talked of
           linux boxes when the HPs in 310 davis (61a lab) die. Kinda sad,
           I like BSD. - paolo
           \_ NT! NT! NT is the STANDARD!  Operating system.
        \_ Spoken like someone who has forgotten the nightmare that was CS162
           last time bh taught it using FreeBSD.
           \_ I've heard good things from people who did CS 162 with FreeBSD
           \_ Um right, the new guy Franklin, is a visiting prof, a database
              guy.  From the email discussion with him, he will be using
              nachos.  I don't know why he recommended the book; other than
              it's been recommended before, and he wants to re-use existing
              notes/curriculum.  - paolo
                \_ Never take any important class with a visiting prof.
        \_ There is no such thing as a real one semester OS class.  OSes are
           too complicated to fit into one semester.  So either you do trivial
           things in a complicated real kernel like one in BSD, or somewhat
           more complicated things in a toy kernel, like one in Nachos.
           Personally I ll take Nachos any day.  I can look at the BSD kernel
           in my spare time.  -- ilyas
1999/12/23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:17090 Activity:very high
12/22    What's a good local Berkeley/Oakland shop (or SF if near BART
         station) where i can get a very inexpensive basic computer (do
         need pentium,64MB,hdd, but do not need monitor/mouse/keybd/Windows)?
         I just want to play around on it and load BSD/Linux/Solaris over
         winter break.  I'd prefer to spend $500 or less.
         \_ If you're up to building your own and are willing to spend some
            time to build a bad ass machine for cheap try
            they only come around once every 3 weeks to the oakland conv
            center so you'd have to wait.  if you don't mind jack-asses
            selling you computers you can try hi-tech on shattuck.
1999/12/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:17056 Activity:nil
12/15   Adobe FrameMaker for Linux beta -- try it, you'll (hopefully) like it:

        Go to the Web page for instructions on how to download (downloads come
        with a free license key that lasts until 12/31/2000).  And no, Frame
        hasn't been GPL'ed; no, they don't know how much the retail version
        will sell for yet; and beware that it might not work with your
        particular combo of distro/kernel/glibc (which is why it's a beta and
        not yet a product in a box, hey).  Early, detailed, fervent-yet-
        useful feedback will help this come to market that much sooner (but
        please provide feedback as directed, and not to me; this isn't my
        project anymore).  -- kahogan
        \_ BSD?
           \_ Linux emulation.
1999/11/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16807 Activity:nil
11/2    Chembook.  Thinking of buying one.  Anyone used them, or had probs
        putting linux/bsd on one?  Chembook 8200. - paolo
1999/11/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16802 Activity:very high 50%like:18009
11/1    Aww, what happened to the 'linux: whats the big deal?'  troll?
        \_ alas, it sailed with kchang to the land of h0zerdom
        \_ I still have a copy but the long and short of it is that there's
           apparently no reason to use Linux other than "freebsd won't run
           on my hardware" and "all my friends use linux".
           \_ you forgot "terminally stupid".
1999/10/31-11/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16800 Activity:very high
10/31   running debian gnu/linux potato?  upgraded in the
        past few days?  upgrade screwed up your networking?
          this is not terribly specific. elaborate? _/
        have you determined what in the world is the problem?
        yes?  email me.  summerm
        \_ The problem is that you are running Linux, not FreeBSD.
        \ I run slink, so I have no clue about potato problems. Try asking on
                #debian on <DEAD><DEAD> -akopps
        \_ Given that Linux is just as difficult, if not more so, than other
           *NIXen and the least stable of the lot, why are people using Linux
           instead of a real unix box?  What is the typical Linux user getting
           out of Linux that a more stable unix doesn't provide?  -baffled
           \_ For me, I know of no other that will get everything in my
              notebook working correctly for me.  I'd run FreeBSD if it worked
              with all my hardware. --ricky with a 486 desktop & a P120 notebook.
              \_anyone successfuly running freeBSD on a notebook,
                especially a Hitachi notebook?
                \_ it runs great on my Libretto. Even better than windoze! -ERic
              \_ Understandable if that's the only thing that runs your
           \_ One reason could be that there are a lot more companies
              that offer commercial support for Linux.  As for myself,
              I use RedHat Linux and I like it a lot better than FreeBSD.
              First, I really like pre-compiled binaries.  Yeah, I can
              download the source and compile it myself, but its quicker
              and easier to install an RPM package.  Second it seems that
              the development and documentation efforts are much larger
              for Linux than for FreeBSD.  Finally, you can sometimes get
              decent non-open source software for Linux like StarOffice,
              WordPerfect and InsureLite (a memory leak finder).  Go Linux!
              What do you prefer about FreeBSD? -emin
                \_ The commercial support is a recent thing.  I can see the
                   ease that RPM's bring to life but isn't that sort of one
                   step away from sourceless, binary-only distributions, a la
                   the shrink wrap industry?  Documentation?  How so?  The
                   Linux How-to's are mostly out of date.  Gimme a solid man
                   page and an example config file any day.  I'm actually not
                   using FreeBSD.  There are other BSD's as well as Slowlaris
                   x86 and some other more off the beaten path stuff.  I didn't
                   write the "you're using Linux, not FreeBSD" comment at the
                   top.   -not a FreeBSD bigot
          \_ From a desktop user's point of view, What is the freaking
                difference between FreeBSD or Linux? Both work "well enough"
                for me. There is so much overlap between two systems that
                it really does not make a big difference. Use what works
                better for you..
          \_ I have heard this "linux is the least stable" thing a number
             of times, but nobody who says that ever seems to have anything
             but anecdotal evidence.  I think this is just bigotry
             of the same order as "My C=64 rulez Apple ][s suck!!!!! d00d"
             \_ the async file system?
             \_ i don't know how bad linux proper sucks, but redhat is
                definitely shit compared to freebsd. i don't know about rh 6,
                but 5 was crap all the way through. -ali
                \_ What didn't you like about RedHat 5?  I admit there
                   were a lot of bugs with the distribution such as the
                   emacs documentation not being included.  However once
                   you got the patches or installed RedHat 5.2 everything
                   worked fine.
                   \_ Unclear on the concept!
             \_ There is nothing *but* anecdotal evidence.  There are no
                reliable statistics, so to say it's bigotry based on rulez vs.
                drulez is to ignore "the common wisdom" at your peril.  There
                is zero anecdotal evidence to the contrary and lots in favor
                of the concept that linux is less stable.  Why go with
                something that *might* be less stable for no apparent gain?
                Increased risk with zero gain seems pointless to me.  I'm not
                an anti-Linux bigot.  I'm just baffled and curious.  I'm
                suspecting this is a "my friends all use Linux, so I do too"
                kind of thing.   --baffled
                \_ well that might make sense, in that you can rely on such a
                   'network of friends' for linux support.  I know I'd trash
                   my windows machines if I didn't have some friends to help
                   me with them every time they decide to mess themselves up. `
                   Talk about unstable!  If you use Windows for anything more
                   important than playing games, you're a fool!  -ERic
                \_ You want anecdotal evidence that FreeBSD has problems?
                   When I was working at a startup we ran FreeBSD.  It worked
                   pretty well but we had some weird problems with our file
                   server crashing and various network daemons dying.  For
                   example, we once had our file server crash while I was
                   doing a large cvs commit.  That sucked.  I'm not saying
                   that FreeBSD is less stable, I'm just saying that stories
                   of problems with FreeBSD exist too.  In my experience,
                   both Linux and FreeBSD are stable enough that I can't
                   really tell the difference.  God help you if you run
                   Windows though. -emin
1999/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16785 Activity:low
10/28   Where can I find the official BSD devil online?  I'm looking for a
        fairly large and hight quality image like the tux penguin on the
        gimp page (  The ones on the
        freebsd page are to small and to crude looking.
        \_ The BSD daemon is copyrighted by mckusick. Don't be stupid.
           \_ That's the same one from the freebsd page. I'm looking for
              a non-tshirt one.  That one's too small and crude.
              \_ Obviously you are a dumbass.
                 \_ Well, that was an utterly unintelligent response. What
                    the hell is someone this stupid doing with a CSUA
                        \_ That's a rhetorical question.
        \_ Duh.
1999/10/14-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16708 Activity:high
10/14   Crap, they switched the OS professor.  Who the hell is this
        Michael Franklin guy and what the heck happened to Hellerstein?
        \_ I smell another Professor Smith.
        \_ From the looks of it (no berkeley email or homepage and the
           class starts at 5:30) he must be an industry guy who comes
           in and teaches when he gets off work.  Fro what I've heard
           about those kinds of profs, they suck.
        \_ Franklin is my dad!  He rules!
        \_ Franklin is a new prof here.  Cal is hiring. (but not you)
        \_ I spoke with Franklin re: 162 using open src os.  No dice. - paolo
           \_ any impressions regarding his actual ability to teach 162?
              (personal philosophy conflicts notwithstanding)
              \_ Um, no he's a very nice guy, I sent him some email, he
                 responded the next day, this was very nice.  He has a
                 web page, so check him out.  He just didn't think he wanted
                 to teach the class in a non-object oriented, open src os
                 such as freebsd or linux. - paolo
                 \_ WHAT?!  NO LINUX!  I'll bet he doesn't even RIDE BIKE!!!!
                 \_ It's an OS course, not an OOP course.
1999/10/9-12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:16678 Activity:kinda low 75%like:16677
10/8    I have a computer running RedHat 6.0.  I just got an ethernet
        installing a NIC, but I'd rather not reinstall.  Thanks.
        \_ You can find a list of drivers in
           /usr/src/linux/Documentation/; make sure the
           driver for your card is configured in your kernel or compiled
           as a module.
           \_ I installed a bsd box a while ago with totally random hardware
              which was all recognized instantly.  I had no idea what all that
              \_ Did writing that give you a big ego boost?
                \_ Don't forget to mention that it isn't a real sentence.
                   It doesn't have a period at the end.
                   \_ Uhm, okay.
              crap was, but bsd did.  And I don't have to rebuild the kernel
              every Monday, Thursday and every second Saturday.
           \_ WTF?! Isn't linux supposed to just work?  This looks worse
              than fucking windows! -sameer
                        \_ This sounds as if you are the victim of one or
                           more unrealistic expectations. "All OSes suck
                           equally.  Some OSes are less equal than others..."
               \_ yes, everything just magically works right off the
                  configuration is fairly easy.  just
                  route add -net eth0
                  ifconfig eth0
                  route add default gw
                  insmod 3c509.o
                        \_ Unless of course you're using a modern OS which
                           doesn't require you to recompile your kernel just
                           to add new hardware.  At least linux is up to the
                           level SunOS 4 was at a decade ago and doesn't make
                           you recompile the kernel to repartition your disks
                           like the truly ancient Unixes.
                  route add -host eth0
                  you're done (i just made up ip numbers).
                  \_ Oh yeah, that was totally trivial.  How obvious to any
                     \_ what I originally wrote was something different.
                        some dipshit changed what i wrote. basically
                        windows 95 does the exact same thing (load driver,
                        configure interface, and create routing table) but
                        has some pretty front end which you could easily
                        replicate under any other OS.
                \_ don't be an idiot.  If the support isn't compiled into
                   the kernel, of course it won't work.  -tom
                        \_ troll deleted
                        \_ It seems to be fairly common practice these days
                           for Linux distributors to configure everything as
                           a module that isn't in the core kernel, so you don't
                           generally have to recompile kernels. But if you have
                           an especially outlandish device you might have to
                           update your kernel sources and recompile. If you buy
                           a machine from VA Linux, for example, they will
                           patches and other good things for your box which
                           constitute their "officially supported" kernel, which
                           keeps you from having to track down quite so many
                           random little patches (and they give you precompiled
                           versions, too.) ... In theory, there's nothing which
                           prevents you from adding modules in after the kernel
                           is compiled, provided you get the symbol versions
                           right. But I haven't seen any concrete examples of
                           people doing this, especially since reconfiguring
                           one's kernel isn't particularly difficult, what with
                           "make xconfig" and all. -brg
                           \_ wait, I thought people recompiled and installed
                              linux kernels all the time?  Isn't this the point
                              of an open src?  you modify it to your needs?  I
                              remember having to recompile an old version of
                              slackware on my 386 just to get ps2 mouse
                              support. - paolo
                              \_ In the days when 1MB of memory costed $50
1999/10/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Display] UID:16652 Activity:very high
10/2    Looking for pointers to linux/BSD-happy hardware.  Don't delete this.
        \_ As for high end video cards, good luck.  I believe the Voodoo
           cards and some nvidia have some support for linux but you'll
           be working very hard to get Mesa, GLX, and XFree to work properly
           together.  Stay away from Windmodems and Soho ethernet cards.
           \_ Not to mention the area of Mexico that was hit was more flat
              currently.  mr. id software is pushing it hard himself.
              g200 runs quake at >25fps, and handles some real texture-happy
              and less densely populated.
           \_ matrox g200 and g400 are best supported by linux w/ GLX
           Anything in particular? Sound Cards? scsi, motherboards? video? ..
           \_ Any linux equivalent of this useful list?
              opengl programs ok (better than an o2... g400 should match
              an octane).
           \_ nVidia TNT based cards are well supported as well. --Jon
1999/9/19-2001/4/6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16551 Activity:nil 85%like:15771
FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Sun May  3 22:30:48 PDT 1998: Co-Ed Naked Computing

           /  C S U A   G E N E R A L   M E E T I N G  #3    \
1999/9/17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16536 Activity:nil
9.16    Does anyone know about the way synchronous send and receives between
        threads are implemented in the (1) Mach kernel, (2) the BSD Kernel,
        so HTTPS should work now.  Bugs to mconst.
1999/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16450 Activity:low
9/2     Berkeley makes slashdot news regarding changes to BSD license.
1999/9/1 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16447 Activity:very high
        \_ Go read the slashdot update on Unisys's real position
           \_ Yeah- they just want to frighten people who don't
              know any better into paying them for a license they don't
              need. Funny, that doesn't make them look that much
              better.   -cdaveb
1999/8/13-15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16307 Activity:kinda low
8/13    Does FreeBSD or Linux support PC-compatibles that have multiple
        \_ Yes.
           \_ Which one?  Both?
              \_ Linux supports SMP since 2.0.  If you're adventurous you
                 can try the experimental 2.3 kernels which supposedly
                 fixes many of the performance bottlenecks involved in
                 SMP or you can wait for 2.4 to come out.  Don't know
                 about FreeBSD.  I assume they're working on it too.
              \_ FreeBSD supports SMP since 3.0.
        \_ who cares.. run solaris.
        \_ FreeBSD as of 3.1 supports SMP pretty well.  I've talked to
           a fair number of people who run 3.2 on multiproc machines
           very reliably.  -John
1999/7/22-23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:16183 Activity:nil
7/22    No, I don't read M$NBC news but here is an interesting article
        about BSD vs. Linux (linked off from --linux user
1999/7/21-23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16175 Activity:nil
7/20    Does anyone know what the lockf state is under FreeBSD top is?
        \_ probably related to the one mentioned in the man pages for lockf
           \_ httpd's been in the state for days.  Is it a good idea to
              kill -HUP it?
                \_ Not if you're running apache and it's still answering
                   connections.  It's probably not constantly in flock state
                   just happens to be there when you check.  Apache uses flock
                   to control which child answers incoming connections so
                   multiple ones don't try to answer the same call.
1999/6/29-7/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:16031 Activity:high
6/29    Enough of the ssh crap. Take it to or csua@csua.  Anon
        flames on the motd only makes both sides of the issue look like
        \_ you're attacking my freedom of speech!!! I've been violated!!!
           \_ First Amendment only protects you from the govt., not from
              your fellow Americans.  The ACLU won't give a crap.
              \_ Does the First Amendment protect ep-sample.avi?
              \_ But the CSUA is an organization under the umbrella of
                 the University of California, and hence receives
                 funding from the gov't.  I'm sure they could make a
                 case if they felt like it.
                 \_ The CSUA isn't doing any censoring (which is why the
                    web server has so much gay porn, but that's a different
                    issue) - they just aren't stopping other users from
                    editing the motd.
                    \_ So I assume there was adequate CSUA representation
                       at last weekend's Gay Pride parade?
                        \_ kchang marched in the Drag Queen parade dressed
                                as an asian chick
        \_ yes mommy
        \_Linux Rulez!  Ride BIKE!
                \_ Linux sux.  Go FreeBSD!
                   \_ Linux Rulez!  Ride BIKE!  Fuck you for thinking anything
                      different from me!
                   \_ FreeBSD sux.  Go vxWorks!
                      \_ does vxworks support mmu's?
                         \_ what, mmu's? don't all os's have memory management
                                \_ No, CPU's have MMU's.  (And not all, just
                                   those that want to support virtual memory.
                                   For instance the 68000 & 68020 didn't have
        \_Open Source! Standardize Java!
                \_ Java is standardized - it's just that the standards are
                   set by Sun, not some international organization.
1999/5/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15873 Activity:nil
FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Sun May  3 22:30:48 PDT 1998

Tue May 25 14:30:21 PDT 1999
        Soda go boom again.  -root

Tue May 25 02:30:54 PDT 1999
        Soda is back up.  It went down unexpectedly.  Sorry. -root
1999/5/7-9/19 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15771 Activity:nil 83%like:14040 85%like:16551
FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Sun May  3 22:30:48 PDT 1998

TODAY! C S U A    G E N E R A L    M E E T I N G   &   E L E C T I O N
        Friday, May 7th - 6:00pm - Wozniak Lounge 4th fl. Soda Hall
             Come vote for (or run for) next year's Politburo
          and hear Entrepreneurship Guest Speaker Sameer Parekh
1999/4/27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15703 Activity:nil
4/26    Is there something equivalent to solaris 'truss' on linux or
        \_ "man strace" for Linux
        \_ FreeBSD:
           ktrace(1) - enable kernel process tracing
           ktrace(2) - process tracing
1999/4/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15701 Activity:kinda low
4/27    Even yermom can use BSD:
        \_ How did you know BSD was the name of my ....
           \_ funny,  I thought "inside denver" was...
             \_ see bach, see bach run, run bach run!
1999/3/30-4/1 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15666 Activity:kinda low
3/30    I've got a friend who'd like to config a Linux machine to act as a
        a gateway so that their home network can share a DSL line -- I've
        never done this (and obviously they haven't, since they're asking
        me) . . . any good FAQ's I can point them to for advice?

 _   _    _    ____  ______   __  ____ ___ ____ _____ _   _ ____    _ __   __
| | | |  / \  |  _ \|  _ \ \ / / | __ )_ _|  _ \_   _| | | |  _ \  / \\ \ / /
| |_| | / _ \ | |_) | |_) \ V /  |  _ \| || |_) || | | |_| | | | |/ _ \\ V /
|  _  |/ ___ \|  __/|  __/ | |   | |_) | ||  _ < | | |  _  | |_| / ___ \| |_
        \_ A friend of mine uses ip masquerading. here's an email blurb:
           >lines added to the end of file /etc/rc.d/rc.local.
           >echo "ip_masq"
           >echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
           >/sbin/depmod -a
           >/sbin/modprobe ip_masq_ftp.o
           >/sbin/modprobe ip_masq_raudio.o
           >/sbin/modprobe ip_irc.o
           >/sbin/ipfwadm -F -p deny
           >/sbin/ipfwadm -F -a m -S192.168.1.0/24 -D0.0.0.0/0
           >/sbin/ifconfig eth1
           >/sbin/route add -net
           >also you have to set up the linux machine
           >as a gateway in tcpip settings in w95
           I'm not exactly sure what each line does. Don't forget to compile
           IP Masquerading into the kernel.
           \_ This is for Linux 2.0.x, which is what the latest Redhat
              distrib ships with.  You should really upgrade to 2.2.5 (it's
              \_ oh shit, i didn't know they were up to 2.2.5 already. it
                 was only a month ago when people were boasting about 2.2.2
                 \_ As you wrote this, three newer versions were relased.  By
                    the time you finish reading this sentence, they'll be at
                    version (or so - depends on your reading speed).
              pathetically easy), and use the ipchains stuff below.  Better
              yet, use FreeBSD --dbushong
        \_ natd
           \_ That's for FreeBSD.  On a modern Linux box, use ipchains:
              ipchains -A forward -s -d 0/0 -j MASQ
              (where is your internal subnet).  You probably
              also want to add the built in proxies for things that doesn't
              insmod ip_masq_cuseeme

 _   _    _    ____  ______   __  ____ ___ ____ _____ _   _ ____    _ __   __
| | | |  / \  |  _ \|  _ \ \ / / | __ )_ _|  _ \_   _| | | |  _ \  / \\ \ / /
| |_| | / _ \ | |_) | |_) \ V /  |  _ \| || |_) || | | |_| | | | |/ _ \\ V /
|  _  |/ ___ \|  __/|  __/ | |   | |_) | ||  _ < | | |  _  | |_| / ___ \| |_
|_| |_/_/   \_\_|   |_|    |_|   |____/___|_| \_\|_| |_| |_|____/_/   \_\_( )
         _____ __  __  ___  _   _ ____   ___  _____
        |_   _|  \/  |/ _ \| \ | |  _ \ / _ \| ____|
          | | | |\/| | | | |  \| | |_) | | | |  _|
          | | | |  | | |_| | |\  |  _ <| |_| | |___
          |_| |_|  |_|\___/|_| \_|_| \_\\___/|_____|
              insmod ip_masq_ftp
              insmod ip_masq_irc
              insmod ip_masq_raudio                 --dbushong
1999/3/20-22 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:15621 Activity:nil
3/19    Want even more shocking linux news that the one below?
        \_ How about the fact that Hotmail, owned by M$, runs FreeBSD instead
           of NT on its servers?
        \_ next time, post a summary, as well. microsoft now supposed has an
           email address for people to write and request "word for linux".
           This is unfortunate, if they actually listen. microsloth will
           then crush the entire software application industry.
1999/3/4-6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15541 Activity:high
3/4     Anyone with experience with both WinGate & WinRoute? How do they
        \_ install FreeBSD.  use natd
                \_ Idiot.
                   \_ Fuck you.  OK. Install WinGate and give me your
                      IP address so I can bounce all my packets off you.
                      \_ You're an idiot for providing the unix answer to
                         someone who wanted a windows answer.  Get off your
                         Your WinGate concerns were already covered by a later
                         comment making it clear Wingate isnt a serious answer
                         so trying to play a straw man argument as if I was a
                         Wingate supporter just because I find your netbsd
                         answer stupid and useless only makes you look like
                         a clown.  The original poster din't ask how to do
                         NAT or share a modem in the generic sense.  They
                         requested windows specific advice which you failed to
                         provide, thus, you are an idiot.  Why do I have to
                         explain things you should have learned in third grade
                         such as "always read the question"?  Enjoy your
                         religion.  Other will continue to provide useful
                         religion.  Others will continue to provide useful
                         answers while you flail around wasting everyone's
                         time with idiotic and useless replies.
                         \_ I have run both WinGate, WinRoute, and various
                            NT firewalls that do NAT both at home and at
                            work where I develop one.  WinGate and WinRoute
                            both have shitty performance, major security
                            holes, and terrible reliability.  My opinion
                            is that they both suck and that you are much
                            better off buying a $400 PPro running a
                            *BSD OS w/ natd and ipfw.  Thus...
                            install FreeBSD.  use natd.  Are you happy?
                            Now tell me, who's your daddy?
                            \_ What security holes in Winroute?
                            \_ You can't get a PPro for $400 (at least not
                               a complete machine).
                               \_ Well, you don't need a monitor for it.
                                  I am sure you can find one for that
                                  price.  But OK, fine...  Get
                      \_ Fuck you. OK. Give me your home address so I can
                         bounce my mallet off your computer.
                         \_ 2620 Hillegass Apt. 10.  Come right over
                         \_ It's the Compaq one. Don't touch the HP
                                  a complete K6-2  300 w/o monitor
                                  for $399.
                                  \_ Yes.  That was a real answer.  Don't you
                                     feel better now?
        \_ WinGate is a toy.  It's ok if you don't have a heavy load and
           aren't serious about it.
        \_ How about SyGate?
1999/3/2-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:15517 Activity:nil
3/2     motd restored.  I find it odd that people bother nuking it
        given how obvious it is that so many others save it.
        \_ Please restore the fetish stuff.
           \_ By popular request:

      Hillary Clinton & Monica
      Lewinsky con dildos de
      "strap-on"              535
      TOM!                    999999999
      latinas lesbianas con
      dildos de "strap-on"    534
      asian                   10
      \_ subset: korean       2
      \_ subset: fobs         1
      \_ subset: japanese
                 schoolgirls  3
                 \_ Wearing
                    Uniforms  3
                 \_ wearing a cut-off "spank me daddy"
                    t-shirt   1
      tall                    3
      talg                    1
      B&D                     5
      spanking                4
      little boys             0       -- cogan?
      little girls            4
                              \_ This almost makes me proud to be a sodan.
                                 *sniff*  -mlee
      - catholic schoolgirls  3
      - toothless             1
      barely legal            2
      illegal                 2
      petite women            2
      muchandr                2
      big tits                6
      anal                    5
       -on nweaver            1
      tentacle                1
      fetishes                4
      small rodents           2
      necrophillia            2
      crazed psychos          4
      the elderly             1
      file cabinets           1
      PDP-10s & LISP          6
      BSD driverhacks         1
      rootcows                37337
      raverporn               1
      \_ Where do you get this? I want some.
      sexual torture          3
      fat chicks             -2
      soda                    1
      perl                    2
      lila                    1
      ahm                     2
      tickling                2
      shaved pubes            3
      spinach                 3
      pics of fatties         1
      Hank AKA JSL            -20
      amputees                1
      oral                    0
      kane                    2
      danh & stump fantasies  3
      redheads                3
      mail order russian brides 0
      the Simpsons!           1
      wattle                  0
      ASTEROIDS               1,599,990 @ 2020 !!!!!!
      nuking the motd         666
1999/2/22-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15462 Activity:nil
2/22    Can anyone give me access to (or run a binary for me on) a K6-III
        running FreeBSD or Linux?  --PeterM
        \_ Whats yer binary?  Rootkit?
           \_ No, it's a plasma simulation, I want to benchmark a K6-III.
              I don't bite the hand that feeds me either.  Messing up someone
              who helps me seems stupid. --PeterM
1999/1/28-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15313 Activity:low
1/28    Let's say I have root in my house's intranet. How do I perform sniffer
        using tcpdump or other tools? Thanks.
        \_ download snoop
                \_ where can I get it?
        \_ also sniffit
        \_ get tcpdump from  You also need libpcap.
           If you use FreeBSD, recompile your kernel w/ BPF -sky
                \-the answer strongly depends on the OS you are running.
                it also depends on what you want to do ... if you want to
                spy on people or do qualitative meansurements tcpdump isnt
                the right tool. if you want to build tools or do precise
                things, then tcpdump/libpcap probably are. there are some
                bugs but assuming you dont have split routing or a 100mbit
                saturated full duplex, they probably wont affect you. --psb
                \_ I doubt he wants to spy own ppl in his own house.
                   But there are plenty of scripts to display tcpdump
                   output in ASCII format, etc... if you want to spy.
                   If you really want to spy on ppl, get SessionWall-3
                   or something similar. --sky
1999/1/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15303 Activity:nil
1/26    For you FreeBSD-heads:  Jordan Hubbard.  Taos Tech Talk about FreeBSD,
        at Taos Headquarters in Santa Clara:  3970 Freedom Circle.
        6:30pm-9:00pm on Wednesday, 1/27...I won't be there, but you're
        welcome to join the rest of the Taos Crowd.  --chris
1998/12/15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:15087 Activity:nil
12/14   What's a good toolkit for developing software for X11 and MS Windows
        with minimal headaches?  I've looked at Qt (only free for X11) and
        wxWindows (even simple apps written for it are rather slow to
        compile... worries me about runtime speed), but they don't seem like
        viable solutions for the aforementioned reasons.  Any suggestions?
        LGPL or BSD-style license is preferable, but GPL will do.  -brian
        \_ the toolkit-formerly-known-as-Swing comes standard with JDK 1.2
           It's easy to program to, but interfacing with your C/C++ code might
           cause you headaches.  Or not.  I generally don't think runtime speed
           is an issue for UI; it tends to be user-bound anyway.  -pld
           \_ swing can easily be cpu bound if you don't have a fast computer
        \_ tcl/tk 8.x
        \_fltk seems reasonable...
1998/12/2-4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15056 Activity:nil
12/2    Anybody here have any info on getting FreeBSD 3.0 to use elf format
        for the kernel rather then aout. I can't seem to locate the info I
        need. --marc
        \_ doconfig -c $host -f elf
1998/12/2-4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15053 Activity:high
12/1    Perhaps everyone knows this, but I thought it would be nice
        to repost..

        "I did not know until I read this article on Linux today that Hotmail
        ran on FreeBSD. Why don't people publicise this more. It must be a
        major embarrasment to Microsoft to have to admit that NT isn't up
        to the task. Actually, Hotmail uses FreeBSD for certain functions,
        and Solaris for their big servers. read more."
        \_ I wouldn't be surprised if <DEAD><DEAD> was running Apache.
           You can't do anything half usefull with an NT server.
        \_ NT suckz, unix rulez!
        \_ MS has been using NT for a while.  OTOH, they went from 4 sparcs
           to a 100 nt machines.  -jor
           \_ hey, how come ping doesn't work?
              \_ Microsoft doesn't respect the RFCs; they don't think you
                 should be able to ping their servers.
                 \_ This will all change when they release ActivePing(TM)
        \_ FreeBSD also runs Yahoo and a good number of other high-traffic
           sites -- at least 650 of them.  See:
        \_ Hotmail was likely running on FreeBSD before it was MS acquired.
           Duh.  FreeBSD is still >> NT doing mail stuff, but still. -jctwu
        \_ runs IIS 4.0, and runs apache 1.2.1
        \_ Yeah but microsoft probably uses over 40 machines to do the
           same thing 10 machines do under FreeBSD.
1998/11/25-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15031 Activity:very high
11/25   I'm setting up some cheap PC boxes (PII's and K6-2's) to do some
        number crunching for my PhD project. Since my calculations are just
        pure number crunching and no graphics, I'm trying to decide which
        OS to use. I can't afford (nor do I want) WinNT. Linux? FreeBSD?
        OpenBSD? Others? -- spegg
        \_ What's wrong with using an abacus?
           \_ Abucus? Those things can't do Jack.  Use a slide rule.
        \_ Better yet is if you have a multiproc system which Linux has
           supported for a while and which FreeBSD 3.0 (which just recently
           came out officially) now supports.  Aside from that I've heard
           very few complaints about either OSs.  You'll find more Linux
           binaries around but since you're probably writing your own
           programs that doesn't really matter.  FreeBSD is a bit slimmer
           than Linux (~1MB statically compiled kernel vs ~4MB statically
           linked + any extra dynamically loaded modules).

           \_ you know, I wonder what accounts for this huge size difference.
           \_ get real. Solaris x86 is best for multi-cpu usage.
              \_ oh yeah, i forgot.  but when it comes to single processor
                 performance, i don't think running any one of those OSs
                 will give you a huge performance increase.  They all
                 pretty much execute x86 ELF binaries which are optimized
                 in the same way.  The only difference you might see is
                 how well each OS handles dynamic object files and how well
                 it manages memory for calculations that require a ton of mem.
                 \_ In which case, if you're dealing with virtual memory
                    that far exceeds physical memory, I hear solaris is also
                    the winner.
                        \_ if you'r edealing with virtual memory which
                           far exceeds physical memory, you've already lost.
                           \_ not really.  It happens all the time and is
                              possible because of spatial/temporal locality.
                              Say you're running Gimp with 4 5MB tiff files
                              open a the same time on a 16MB PC.  Chances
                              are the you're not going to be dealing with
           than if there's a real OS running.  You can still tell the
           compiler to generate 32-bit or Pentium instructions.  -- yuen
                              all 20MB at the same time even though they
                              are all open. Hence +20MB virtual vs 16MB
                                \_ First of all, the guy is talking about
                                   number crunching, not image processing.
                                   It is likely that he's going to be
                                   addressing all of the memory he's
                                   crunching with.  And second, no one said
                                   it was impossible--it just is painfully
                                   slow.  disk is like 6 orders of magnitude
                                   slower than RAM.
                                   \_ uhh. "number crunching" applications
                                      usually exhibit greater locality
                                      than almost any other app, if
                                      optimized properly. -nick
                                        \_ which will help not at all if
                                           it's using more than physical RAM.
                                           \_ What part of "locality" don't
                                              you understand, twink?  Nick knows
                                              what he's talking about.
                    \_ Wow, someone actually used the term virtual memory
        \_ Since you're doing number crunching, you'll probably be best off
           with Intel.  I encourage you to benchmark a K6-2, but P-II's are
           superior in FP ability, though perhaps not most cost-effective.
           Your next big worry is the compiler to
           use.  I guess you don't want to pay for one?  Then you're stuck
           with either gcc/g77/g++ (either the GNU flavor or the egcs flavor:
           egcs is likely to be faster).  gcc/egcs can be faster or slower
           depending on how it is compiled!  You may want to spend a day or
           so making sure you have a good compiler + flags.  The OS to use is
           your SMALLEST worry if you're doing number crunching, no graphics.
           Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD all use gcc/egcs anyway.  I personally
           use Linux, it works fine for crunching.  I've nothing bad to say
           about FreeBSD either:  both should install easily and be easy
           to manage.  RedHat Linux is particularly easy to install.  --PeterM
        \_ By the way, Scott, your .forwarding address doesn't work.  --PeterM
           \_ just out of curiosity, are you by any chance the same Peter M
              that appears on the gimp splash screen?
              \_  No, that's Peter Mattis.  My login is peterm.  --PeterM
        \_ Actually, since you're just doing number crunching and nothing
           else, DOS may be the best "OS" to use if you're stuck with a single
           processor PC.  Sure it's the lamest OS ever (if you can even
           call it one), but then you'll have the most CPU cycles available
           than if there's a real OS running.  Plus I think (not sure)
           running in real mode is faster than running in virtual mode.
           You can still tell the compiler to generate 32-bit or Pentium
           instructions.  -- yuen
           \_ *I* would certainly not want to have to move from machine to
              machine to manage jobs!  An ethernet card is MUCH cheaper than
              a monitor for a compute-farm, and DOS has nil networking
              capability.  Linux/FreeBSD are worth it for convenience.
              Second, "real" OS's really incur very little overhead, and you
              can even reduce it to a very small amount by increasing the
              time slice each process gets.  SMP machines are a good
              suggestion though:  they're very space/cost effective, and
              linux, at least, does a good job in SMP mode keeping the
              CPU's busy when you run long-running compute intensive jobs.
              Just be sure not to run more jobs than you have CPUs. --PeterM
           \_ If you have other programs running on your system that are
              idle almost no time will be deticated to those processes.
              I'm running httpd on my computer but it takes up about 0%
              of my processor resources so idle processes shouldn't matter.
              Pentium optimized instructions may even be faster because
              they pipeline better and the memory management on unix beats
              the hell out of dos so if you're doing space inefficient
              computations dos will stink.
              \_ even if they wind up doing nothing, you're still wasting
                 cycles  with the kernels occasional interrupts to check its
                 scheduler and find that it has nothing else to do.
                 \_ Yeah, use QNx or ixWorks or code raw assembly
1998/11/23-25 [Consumer/Audio, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:15004 Activity:high
11/23   I missed the end of the mp3 discussion and now I'm in need.  Could
        someone send me pointers to a reasonable mp3 player and "get music
        off the cd and onto disc" program for FreeBSD.  For the record, this
        is for a laptop w/o cd so I can listen to cd I already have.
        - seidl
        \_ how the hell did you install FreeBSD on a computer without
           \_ He has clue.  Soda was installed without a CDROM.  It
              still does not have one.
              \_ I think I've done at least a half dozen FreeBSD installs,
                 none of them with cdrom. The nastiest was one where I didn't
                 have net or floppy either ... -ERic
                 \_ oh yeah, well on time I installed FreeBSD on a toaster,
                    and it wasn't eaven plugged in!
                    \_ Depends... was it a one slice or two slice toaster?
        \_ you can check out the motd RCS.  For rippers and encoders try
           for a mp3 player there's x11amp which looks a lot like winamp.
                 \_ O.k., I've got players and encoders now.  But rippers
                    elude me.  I think I've gotten at least 2 which fail
                    to compile.
           it used to be only for linux but now available of freebsd
           \_ the question is which will work/compile under FreeBSD?
              \_ I know for sure that x11amp binaries for FreeBSD are
                 available.  I use linux myself so I wouldn't know about
                 the ripper and encoder.  My guess would be ripper=no,
        \_ I missed yermom when she was in town and now I am in need. Could
           someone send me pointers to yer sister's house?
        \_ I use a version of cdd modified to work with ATAPI CD-ROM drives
           under FreeBSD-CURRENT (should work on -STABLE now too).  It
           might be in the ports collection now, but if it isn't let me
           know and I'll email it to you.  You'll also need sox to convert
           it to wav format and 8hz-mp3 to encode from wav to mp3.  mpg123
           is the best console-mode MP3 player. There are numerous ones for
           X11, too, but I haven't found a good one yet.  -brian
1998/11/16-18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14966 Activity:high
11/15   Anyone know any good links to cd rippers and mp3 encoders for linux?
        No, of course I'm not pirating music, uhum.
        \_ Use a search engine.
        \_  Usually the links for players have good ripper
           links.  -John
        mp3 encoder:
        I've been using cdda2wav , though paranoia should be beter.  Let
        me know how it works if you use it.  -ERic (eagerly waiting for
        paranoia to be ported to free/net bsd)
        \_ This is the first thing I've ever ripped but it seems to work
           fine.  I'm not sure what distinguishes a good from a bad one
           but I'm fine with it.  It does actually rip a track a lot slower
           than it would to actually listen to that track.
        \_ I thought freebsd could handle linux binaries.
          \_ Emulation on any platform can only take you so far.
             \_ but this isn't emulation.  Same architecture, different
           \_ then again you should be able to compile it on free/net bsd.
            \_ cdda2wav uses a linux scsi api that is not supported under
              free/netbsd.  The binary runs but fails to work under emulation.
              The source fails to compile, badly. I briefly looked at porting,
              but it was just easier to rip on some spare linux machines I
              had lying around.  -ERic

                \_ isn't this illegal :) jk...
                \_ kind of ironic: "Free Os for Free Music!!!"
                        \_ What is a ripper?
                           \_ street term for software that converts
                              cdda (compact disc digital audio) to wav. --sly
                              \_ cdda and wav are both PCM. rip just means
                                 transfer from CD to your hd. --aaron
                               \_ Is PCM, pulse code modulation? --sly
                                \_ I stand corrected.
                                 So, what is pcm, and while on the topic, what
                                 do you guys think of Diamond's Rio
             \_ Anybody know if this is legal. You own a cd it gets destroyed
                or stolen. You find the same music on the net and you download
                it. Is this still legal? If you can make a copy for yourself
                then why wouldn't it work in this case. I am taking this from
                the same view point as rom rippers who have notices that say
                if you don't have the originals or have ever owned the
                originals then destroy these copies after a day or so.
                Just curious...
                \_ Umm, that argument would imply that you've bought a
                   general license to listen to that audio. I'm guessing
                   it's more like you bought a license to listen to that
                   audio as embodied in that medium. You can, by law,
                   make copies for personal use (e.g. tape a CD to listen
                   to in the car), but I'm not sure courts would interpret
                   downloading someone else's backup off the net as being the
                   same as using your own.
1998/11/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14879 Activity:very high
11/2    What's the difference between a BSD derived OS and an SVR4 derived
        OS?  No, this is not a geek flame bait.  --geek
                \_ One is based on the freely-distributable codebase from
                   UCB, the other is based on code licensed from Unix System
                   Labs (formerly owned by AT&T, then Novell, now SCO).
                   SysVR4 folded in lots of BSD stuff though.
        \_ depends WHICH SVR4 derived OS. Solaris has lotsandlotsa
           BSDstuff. Main differences:
           * ps is different
           * df needs -k flag on SVR4
           * boottime scripts are different
          kernel wise... supopsedly, SVR4 does better IPC or something.
          \_ well it does IPC differently.  sysV is big on 'streams'
          \_ oh and the tty interface is very different.  ttyent vs. sgtty.
        \_ "ps -aux" (BSD) versus "ps -ef" (SVR4)
1998/10/16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14787 Activity:high
10/16   FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE has been released.
        \_ neat but is there an url.  there seems to be nothing about it on
           the web site.
              \_ also, ftp://meeko.EECS.Berkeley.EDU/pub/FreeBSD --jon
1998/10/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:14755 Activity:high
10/9    I'm trying to get Gimp and several GNOME programs to work on a single
        machine.  For some odd reason Gimp will only work with gtk+ 1.0 while
        every other Gnome program will only work with gtk+ 1.1 libraries so
        I end up having to choose between running only Gimp or just other
        gnome programs.  Any suggestions to work around this?
        \_ what a shocker.  let's see what has to say:
                150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
                0.0_LATEST-IS-1.0.1                   latest
                GIMP_1_0_DOES_NOT_WORK_WITH_GTK_1_1   old
                README                                v1.0.1
           Anyway, on a useful note, try doing it the way the FreeBSD port
           handles it.  It names gtk1.1 libgtk11 and stuff like that.  If
           most everything works with 1.1, you might wish to do the opposite
           (i.e. have  Then make sure you relink gimp with
           that flag.  This must be a common problem, I'm sure you can find
           something about it on the web (or you could just use FreeBSD ;)
        \_ gee why dont  you install both gtk's
           \_ i tried that. gimp stops working.
              \_ then you should figure out how to install two versions
                 of software so that they dont conflict.
                \_ try compiling gimp with static libraries then.
                  \_ no, no, no. Move the old shared lib to another path,
                     then make a wrapper that changes the dynamic load path.
                     OR... just port Gimp. That's what I'd do, if I actually
                     cared about Gimp.
        \_ (sigh) This is why Unix doesn't make a great desktop OS for
           mere mortals.
                \_ That's why I use TRS-DOS.
           \_ Many other, more popular operating system have similar library
              incompatibility problems; they just don't offer users a chance
              to fix them.
1998/10/1-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14717 Activity:nil
10/1    Has anyone been able to successfully brandelf to FreeBSD a linux
        program that isn't statically linked (one that uses dynamic .so).
        I get an error under BSD that some library wasn't found.
        \_ Add that library.
1998/9/22-23 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:14648 Activity:high
9/22    look what i wrote. have fun cracking your wanabee gf's password!
        \_ and getting kicked off of soda
        \_ This assumes that you have a user readable passwd file.
            \_ or non-shadowed passwd, like soda's
                        \_ /etc/passwd must be world readable, so the


$twink = $ARGV[0];

do {
  $line = <PASSWD>;
  ($user,$passwd) = split(/:/,$line);
} while ($twink ne $user);
$salt = substr($passwd,0,2);
$passwd = substr($passwd,2,);

foreach $attempt (`cat /usr/dict/words`) {
  if($salt.$passwd eq crypt($attempt,$salt)) {
    print "password is: $attempt\n";
print "Unable to crack password\n";
                           "user readable passwd" implies non shadowed
               \_ soda has a shadowed passwd file.  all 4.4 bsd derivatives
                  have such a mechanism.  most modern unix like os's do.
                  only older's like ultrix, older irix, <= 4.3 bsd derivs
                        \_ even ultrix has shadowed passwds
                           \_ I am not sure if I would call that
                              monstrosity a passwd file, but okayn in that
                              case, I amend my earlier statement to include
                              ultrix and sunos as shadowable --jon
                \_where does soda keep its shadow passwd's?
                        \_ where no one but the people with enough clue
                           to RTFM can find them
        \_ Alec Muffett >> you
        \_ /usr/dict/words is a lame dictionary - real crackers use much
                much larger dictionaries
           \_ Real crackers kidnap the person, tie him/her up, and beat
              the shit out of him/her until (s)he gives you the password
                \_ REAL crackers get root shell...
                   \_ True crackers don't bother with gf's account. They
                      sift through her lingerie drawer for a diary
                      (amongst other items...)
                        \_ CSUA crackers sift through her lingerie drawer
                           and wear it.
                                \_ Free Kevin Mitnick!
1998/9/11-13 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14571 Activity:high
9/11    If there's a callug shouldn't there also be a BSD users group?
        After all, aren't we (Cal) the original creators.
        \_ the problem with that idea is it makes too much sense.
                \_ there is a FreeBSD User's Group getting started very
                   slowly by jon & jwm - see <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ it's kinda fun trying to get off my ass to do this.  Lemme
           get back to you after math104/110/113, work, CSUA, UCSEE,
           and that sorry excuse for a life I have. --#1 jon clone
                \_ sounds like time to make #2 jon clone then
                   \_ Call it CalFuc.  Cal. FreeBSD User Coalition
                   \_ Also, CalLUG and Jon and BSD users may start an umbrella
                      group for free software advocacy, tentatively called
                      "CalFROG" (freely redistributable OS group).  -- schoen
                        \_ Doesn't it violate some law of nature for Linux &
                           *BSD people to talk to each other, much less
                           co-operate and work together?
                           \_ No, that's (Linux + BSD) vs. Winblows. We
                              real OS people stick together (don't you
                              watch the Simpsons?)
                              \_ I hate it when waffles stick together.
1998/9/4-7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14548 Activity:moderate
9/4     For those who have both linux and freebsd on their system which
        one do you like better.  i'm running linux with X on a 16mb system
        and it doesn't fair much better than win95 in terms of speed.  I'm
        hoping that freebsd will be much slimmer and have better
        process/memory management.  Is this true?  (Please no 'get win nt
        or more memory.' i can't afford laptop memory and i'm not going to
        pay $80 for a buggy os).
        \_ 16MB is way too little for doing real work under X.  4 is barely
           enough to boot without too much swapping, 8 enough to maybe
           start X without swapping..  X also is NOT "faster" graphically
           than Windoze.  Windoze and MacOS are optimised to be graphical
           environments.  X is optimized to be flexible, portable, and
           useful over a network.  --dbushong
                \_ NT Terminal Server (Hydra) is pretty slick, even on
                   a modem. Faster than emacs + X + modem. :-) -slow
                   \_ Remote X programs over 28.8 using ssh -C actually
                      aren't bad at all.  The compression helps _a lot_.  I
                      used to run netscape this way when I was running X
                      on my Mac IIcx + NetBSD (but then that machine had
                      20MB RAM).  Also check out dxpc (it's in ports), which
                      is supposedly a "differential X protocol compressor"
                \-Hey 16megs would have been great on a sun3+X. As long as it
                is just running X and slip, you can get by with under 4mb.--psb
                   \_ Beware: using a sun3 may distort your sense of "great".
                      \_ Beware: using psb's mom may distort your sense of
                         "great".  --psb's mom's #1 fan
1998/8/28 [Recreation/Food, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14522 Activity:nil
FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Sun May  3 22:30:48 PDT 1998

              Come one, come all to a barbecue this Friday.
    Brought to you by the Computer Science Undergraduate Association

       Come and enjoy tasty food, sun, volleyball and socializing.

                     12-3pm, Friday, August 28, 1998
                      4th Floor Terrace, Soda Hall

There will be a wide variety of food and drink available, including
vegetarian and vegan items for those so inclined.  There is no cost
to partake in this gathering.

Thanks to the CS Division for providing the barbecue grill and utensils,
the EECS Center for Undergraduate Matters for helping out financially
with this event and extra special thanks to the Grad Students for
working to bring back the volleyball court in the Soda Hall backyard.
1998/8/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14465 Activity:high
8/17    I need to run a Linux ELF binary ( sorry no source for this :-( )
        My machine is currrently running Freebsd.  Are my OS choices to run
        Linux-Elf binaries only Linux or NetBSD/386, or is FreeBSD 2.2.7
        capable of this? -ERic
        \_FreeBSD 2.2.7 is capable of running linux elf binaries
          if you "brandelf" them first. -daveh
          \_ I run Linux ELF binaries under freebsd all the time, and have
             never had to run brandelf on them..  --dbushong
          \_ brandelf? what's that?
             \_ Keebler and Co.?
                \_ "These aren't the brandelfs we're looking for." - tpc
1998/8/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14432 Activity:high
8/7     What are the advantages of FreeBSD over Linux?
        \_  Well, FreeBSD's NFS implementation is better than Linux's
            and FreeBSD has a reputation for better overall stability than
            Linux.  Also, I understand that FreeBSD scales to a large number
            of users better because of how process scheduling is done.
            I use Linux exclusively myself, because I have
            a dual-CPU machine (which FreeBSD doesn't have good support for)
                                                \_ Coming in October! -- tmonroe
            an Alpha running Linux (no FreeBSD), and Sparcs (no FreeBSD.)
            Also, the people in my research group are used to Linux, so it'd
            be hard to get them to change.  FreeBSD and Linux are both
            very good:  I certainly wouldn't be sorry to work in a place
            running FreeBSD when I leave UCB.  Irix or HP-UX, and I'd
            be hating life.  The standard response to "FreeBSD or Linux?"
            is "run what your friends are running, so they can help you."
                \_ Hey, WTF is wrong with Irix? Irix works fine.
                   \_ Well I think that not packaging NFS/NIS with
                      a system is pretty crappy to starts off with.
                      I could go on but this digresses from the thread.  --jon
                   \_ Does irix run on the Ix86 architecture? That's WTF is
                      wrong with it (for the purpose of this thread).
                   \_ Irix is insecure and SGI has announced they're dropping
                        it in favor of NT.  What more do you want?   (The total
                        reliance on non-standard gui tools is also annoying)
                        \_ I don't think NT or anything Microsoft makes is
                           considered the epitome of "standard" despite
                           their attempts to force the rest of the world
                           to revolve around themselves.
                           \_ Weeelllllllll.... if you've got %90 or so of
                                the marketplace and most software/app
                                companies are writing for your OS with your
                                API's, aren't you a defacto standard?  If not,
                                then what is?  Must it be ANSI approved to be
                                a standard?  I don't think so.
                                \_ Standards are devised by a diverse
                                   group of people from different
                                   organizations, not from a single
                                   corporation.  Microsoft often takes
                                   existing standards and alters it to its
                                   own specs (MS Java? == standard Java,
                                   cab came after zip,gz,and tar.gz,
                                   Win95 api came after X11 and Atena
                                   which at that time had been a standard,
                                   and no, tcp/ip was not invented by
                                   microsoft, yet they've tried to come up
                                with their own hoakey standard called the
                                Microsoft Network.
                                with their own hoakey standard called
                                Microsoft Networking.
                                \_ Speaking of standards most unix systems
                                   are posix compliant (the way binary
                                   files and OS's behave).  The format for
                                   most unix binaries is called executable
                                   link format is is considered a standard
                                   among institutions and developers and
                                   allows people to easily develop tools
                                   and operating systems that handle
                                   binaries with great ease
                                   (eg. binutils)  Win95, on the other
                                   hand, relies on some proprietary format
                                   (those *.exe and *.dll) that no one but
                                   Microsoft and people who purchase their
                                   specs, can understand.
                                \_ That's very idealistic of you, but I still
                                   say a standard is what the majority is
                                   using.  Bad, came afterwards, not posix,
                                   etc doesn't mean jack if that's a minority
                                   requirement and you can dominate the market
                                   without being "standard".  How can you be
                                   a monopoly but not be a standard?  It makes
                                   no sense?  You really think MS isn't a
                                   \_ I guess your definition of
                                      standardization is different than
                                      mine. Your's is one based on social
                                      conformity whereas mine is one made
                                      based on intellegent and informed
                                      decision making.
                                   \_ the metrics system is considered by
                                      most to be a universal standard.
                                      Nevertheless, the english system
                                      still dominates as the system of
                                      choice by most Americans outside of
                                      educational and research
                                      institutions mostly in part due to
                                      industry. Standards are devised
                                      by reason not by popularity.
         \_ FreeBSD is clean, stable, logical, and reliable.  Linux has
            more hardware and (native) software support, and is currently
            the subject of more development.  -- schoen
         \_ Wow.. these are like both useful answers.. I was expecting a
            holy war.
            \_ These answers are only useful to computer gurus.  For everyone
               it's useless.
               \_ Yes, you should just continue babbling and drooling in front
                  of your Win98 boxes.  Have you paid microsoft today?
                    \_ No, I pirate all my MS software.
                      \_ You know they have it all bugged to report all your
                         pirated warez to microsoft if they can get on the
                         net.   Better keep that machine off any form of
                         \_ Laugh.  This is a ridiculous claim.
                        \_ too bad we can't prove that because ms doesn't
                           release source code.  That's the big advantage
                           of open source.  You can verify if anything
                           malicious is taking place.  You can also pick
                           out security flaws better.
                           \_ Easy enough to prove it *doesn't* happen.
                              Just monitor your IP traffic.  If you don't
                              have any packets going anywhere (if they
                              *did* do this, I doubt they'd be dumb enough
                              to send the info directly to
                              unidentifiable, then there can't be a
                        \_ This is beyond ridiculously stupid and paranoid.
                           "BILL GATES IS IN MY MIND!!! AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!"
                           \_ He talks to me all the time!!  He doesn't talk
                              to you, ever?  He tells me how I've always been
                              his most faithful user, and how very much he
                              loves me for supporting all of his company's
                              products.  He says that once he divorces
                              Melinda, he's going to come for me (in a gold-
                              plated Learjet), he'll leave Microsoft to
                              Ballmer, and then we'll fly away to his private
                              island in the South Pacific to live out the
                              rest of our days in a $183 million palace of
                              pleasure that he's building _right_ _now_,
                              _just_ _for_ _me_!!!  Take me away, Bill!!
                                \_ BG IS IN MY MIND!!! HE DOESN'T JUST TALK
                                   TO ME!!!  HE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO THROUGH
                                   THE RADIATION COMING FROM MY MS MOUSE!!!
            \_ Same here. Is the secret to getting questions answered to
               ask on the weekends?
                \-if you are into hardcore low-level networking, you may
                have a preference ... then again, if you if you are working
                in this kind of thing, you are probably aware of the issues.
                we use BPf-style stuff rather than streams-styles machines
                [e.g. solaris] for packet capture/analysis stuff for example.
                [use freebsd on 400mhz pentiums with some kernel hacks ...
                can keep up with a full duplex 100mbit feed]. --psb
           \_ freebsd just killed my ethernet pcmcia card (or pcic,
                dunno which, yet). nick
                \_ Killed?  Caused physical damage?
        \_ FreeBSD has a more organized/centralized development process -
                Linux is more chaotic/anarchic - this lets Linux change
                faster, but makes FreeBSD easier to support (you don't
                have to worry about which distribution/library set/etc. is
                being used since there is only one).
        \_ DiskAndExecutionMONitor >> penguin
                \_ Even though I'm a FreeBSD user myself, I do place some
                   value on being a good neighbor.  If the practice of
                   putting the Beastie and the Penguin at each other's
                   throats continues, the free UNIX world will kill itself.
                   While I won't liken this up to racism, I will say that
                   it's unnecessary.  Suum cuique, and I will respect your
                   choices as long as you don't go on about how everything
                   else sucks.  -- tmonroe, and what little Latin he remembers
                   \_ LINUX R000lEZ!!! FR33BSD DR)))000lEZEezzZZ!!!!11!
1998/7/29-8/3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14408 Activity:nil
7/28    xapmload0.5 -- Freebsd laptop users check it out! I got
        tired of looking for a good X based freebsd battery level monitor, so
        I quickly  hacked xload to look at /dev/apm. The result is xapmload.
        Binary in ~mehlhaff/src, along with source.  If its useful I'll
        release it to the net. -ERic
1998/6/29-7/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:14267 Activity:high 66%like:13852
06/28   Does Linux or FreeBSD compile for Win95/98?
        \_ Can you play CDs in a VCR?
           \_ No, but my computer has a retractable cup holder.
           \_ Should be "Can you play a CD player in a VCR?".
                \_ Yes.  What of it?
        \_ It compiles on NT (Open-Something environment)
                        \_ on != for
        \_ Are you trying to get Winblows to emulate the entire Linux or
           BSD OS?  It won't happen.  Anything M$ makes will crash
           if it does anything remotely interesting.
        \_ You want to run unix as an application under Win95?  Are you
           fucking stupid or just a fucking stupid troll?
           \_ nuff said
        \_ I think this person wants to create Linux or FreeBSD binaries
           using Win95/98.  But then why???  Just borrow some CD rom from
           some Soda geeks.
                \_ Sounds more like they want to compile binaries FOR Win9x
                   on Linux/FreeBSD, which would make developing Win code
                   less painful since you wouldn't actually have to use it.
                   \_ Possibly you can use the Cygnus stuff as a
                      cross-compiler to do that.
        \_ Whatever they want, if they don't explain it fast, this whole
           troll is getting purged.
1998/5/28 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14148 Activity:nil
5/27    How heavily cached is the file system? If I read a file over and over
        again, how much (in terms of mb) is it usually in memory, in systems
        like FreeBSD?
        \_ Your hard drive has a cache as well.
           \_ Note that this matters less and less as you get a big software
              cache -- in the worst case, if your hardware and software caches
              were the same size and used the same policy, you wouldn't get
              any benefit from the hardware cache at all.
              \_ You fail to mention hard drives that prefetch into their

              This is pretty much unrelated to the original question, whose
              answer is "usually most of it; run top to see how much of your
              physical memory is allocated to cache".
        \_ If the file you're reading over and over again is a read-only
           file, or changes in small incremental, it may be wise to use a
           database who's sole task is "smart disk cache".
           \_ Shut up, cmlee.
              \_ Good call.
        \_ FreeBSD has a unified vm/buffer cache, meaning that file
           caching and process memory both contend for the same physical memory
           (in other words, the memory isn't segmented between the two).  so
           really, the answer to your question depends on how loaded the system
           is, both vm and i/o-wise.  now, if you don't want your file cached
           (because you're only reading sequentially, or something), look at
1998/5/4-1999/5/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14040 Activity:nil 83%like:15771
FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Sun May  3 22:30:48 PDT 1998

   *                                 __                __  _               *
   *     ___ ____ ___  ___ _______ _/ / __ _  ___ ___ / /_(_)__  ___ ____  *
   *    / _ `/ -_) _ \/ -_) __/ _ `/ / /  ' \/ -_) -_) __/ / _ \/ _ `(_-<  *
   *    \_, /\__/_//_/\__/_/  \_,_/_/ /_/_/_/\__/\__/\__/_/_//_/\_, /___/  *
   *   /___/      Nov 23 & Dec 2 - 306 Soda Hall - 5:30 PM     /___/       *
1998/3/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13852 Activity:insanely high 66%like:14267
3/23    What is better, Linux or FreeBSD?
        \_ Linux, without a doubt
           \_ No, you twink, FreeBSD rules!
              \_ Linux!
                 \_ FreeBSD
                    \_ Tastes Great!
                       \_ Less Filling!
        \_ The "which is better" question simply shows either a lack of
           research or a lack of need.  If one of them performs better in
           a particular area you need, then that one is 'better'.  If the
           differences are meaningless to you, then it doesn't matter.  I
           would guess that linux has a larger support community and thus
           is 'better' if all else is equal to you.
           \_ Stereotypes also credit Linux with more software and hardware
              support, and FreeBSD with better stability and more efficient
              networking.  Linux also has more media attention.  FreeBSD has
              cleaner code.  Really, all such operating systems are fighting
              the same battle and aiming at similar things; it's _not_ a Linux
              vs. *BSD fight. -- schoen, 3-year Linux user, etc.
              \_ That was a very clean response but you still have not answered
                 the man's/woman's question. Which is better for someone who
                 is a member of the CSUA. If you can't answer simple questions .
        \_ Fuck 'em both.  Me, I like to use ULTRIX or AIX.
                \_ You're joking, right?
                   \_ No.  Fuck you.  Real men don't use pansy OS's.
                      Obviously you're not a real man.  (Besides, I _like_
                      being dominated.)
                        \_ I use DU.  You think Ultrix is a man's OS?  Get
                           real pansy girl.
                           \_ OH YEAH??!?!?  Well, _I_ use a five-year-old
                              version of SCO UNIX running on an 8-MHz 80286
                              with a monochrome graphics adapter!
           \_ I like Apple DOS 3.3 myself:
                PR #6
                RUN LEMONADE
                \_ LOAD "*",8
                   k0m0d0re sixtee f0re f0urevR!!!!@!@!@11
                        \_ POKE 53280
                 like this, then all your little reasonings are useless to
                 anyone but yourself. --nesim , 2 years win95 user
                        \_ Which one is better for a member of the CSUA?
                           Is this somebody who's actually a CS undergraduate,
                           or some MCB major who wandered in off the street
                           because [s]he heard that they could get a free
                           account with lots of disk space on soda?
                 \_ That _is_ the answer.  To spell it out in plain English,
                    "There isn't a perfect OS for all uses.  The 'better' OS
                     depends on the needs of the user."  The question _is_
                     answered for anyone with a command of basic English.
                 \_ I almost never fail to get annoyed at the stupidity of
                    people with technical knowledge. People don't want to
                    hear all the subtle little details that the initiated
                    thrive on. Sure it is true that two products are always
                    going to have different strengths, but somehow one
                    tends to do better than the other. The "better" one
                    is the one that wins out in the important specification.
                    \_ Well, until _Consumer Reports_ publishes their
                       "10 Alternative Operating Systems for X86 Reviewed!"
                       issue, you're just going to have to deal.  Go back
                       to using Win95 in the meantime.  (Or just tell us
                       what the "important specification" is, since all of us
                       technical geeks aren't as wonderful and omniscient as
                       you are.)
        \_Linux with a commodore64 emulator rulez!
1998/3/18-20 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:13830 Activity:moderate
3/18    Has anyone (else) encountered a bug where after using lseek with
        a negative offset read stops working on that fd, even though a
        valid off_t was returned?  In particular, I have a file with two
        binary unsigned longs at the end, and when I do an lseek(fd,
        -2*sizeof(unsigned long), SEEK_END); the reads then fail. -mel
        \_ Use PERL.
        \_ Did you try seeking to the beginning to the file, then a forward
           seek to where you want to read as a work-around?
           \_ The file is full of longs and I had wanted to read the two
              longs at the end of it.  The workaround I found was:

              end_offset = lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END);
              lseek(fd, end_offset-2*sizeof(long), SEEK_SET);

              which is ugly but it works.  Throw in a few error checks
              on the return codes and it should work for you too. -mel
                \_ mel you ugly squint, get off the motd
        \_ And now, the right answer: You are specifying a seek relative to
           SEEK_END... Such a seek is implicitly in the negative direction,
           since it's impossible to seek past the end of the file.  The minus
           sign in front of the 2 is unnecessary.  So you should be doing:
           lseek(fd, 2*sizeof(unsigned long), SEEK_END);
           I tried looking for an example of this in K&R, but in each instance
           where SEEK_END is used, they demonstrate with an offset of 0, which
           is not too instructive.  WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME, K&R? I TOOK
           THE UNWARY! -mogul (hey, it's 3:15am, fuck off!)
           \_ Not quite.  A seek from SEEK_END is not implcitly negative;
              just like SEEK_CUR and SEEK_SET, positive offsets go forwards
              and negative offsets go backwards (see lseek(2)).  The problem
              with your code (and it's not really your fault) is that sizeof
              returns a size_t, which (on freebsd) is an unsigned int; when
              you multiply that by -2, you get another unsigned int (K&R 2.0,
              p. 198); and the unsigned int (0xfffffff8) then gets promoted
              to a signed long long (0x00000000fffffff8).

              This is not what you want.  The Right Way to fix it would be
              for freebsd to make size_t an unsigned long long, but that
              would break a lot of stuff and probably won't happen soon; in
              the meantime, you can cast the return value of sizeof to a
              signed int and your code will work.    --mconst
1998/2/11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13659 Activity:nil 68%like:13517
FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE (MKV) #0: Tue Feb 10 23:40:04 PST 1998

                      Welcome to http://Soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
            A service provided exclusively for the members of the
         Computer Science Undergraduate Association at U.C. Berkeley
1998/1/19-5/3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13517 Activity:nil 68%like:13659 57%like:32157 50%like:32167
FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Mon Dec  8 23:49:09 PST 1997

                      Welcome to http://Soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
            A service provided exclusively for the members of the
         Computer Science Undergraduate Association at U.C. Berkeley
1997/12/3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:32167 Activity:nil 50%like:13517
FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Sun Nov 30 19:17:07 PST 1997
1996/2/12-20 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:31809 Activity:nil
1/01    soda IV runs DYNIX/PTX 4.0.1.  This is a SysV based operating system.
        Some BSD-ish commands are in /usr/ucb, some are in /usr/local/bin.
        For BSD-ish tty behavior, you'll want to add the following lines
        to your .cshrc:
        stty erase '^H' kill '^U' intr '^C'

1996/1/8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:31790 Activity:nil
1/3/96  Welcome to Soda mk IV.  As this is an entirely new machine, and
        a new operating system, there are going to be problems.  Please
        be patient, we (root) are doing our best to isolate and correct
        problems that arise.  Mail is being delivered but is not all
        here yet.  Some home directories are not online yet; unlike old
        soda, if your home directory is offline, you will not be able
        to log in.  home directories should all be fixed within a couple

        soda IV runs DYNIX/PTX 4.0.1.  This is a SysV based operating system.
        That means that MANY COMMANDS WORK DIFFERENTLY; read the man
        pages for descriptions of the new options (particularly to ls and ps).
        Some BSD-ish commands are in /usr/ucb, some are in /usr/local/bin.
        For BSD-ish tty behavior, you'll want to add the following lines
        to your .cshrc:
        stty erase ^H
        stty kill ^U
        stty intr ^C
        (and maybe more).
        There is a lot of software which has not yet been compiled. DO NOT
        If you want it, get the source off the net and compile it.

        MAILING LISTS: Due to permissions problems, you probably don't
        own the /usr/lib/aliases.include/list file for your mailing lists
        (if you have any).  Mail root and we'll fix it.

Notices for people compiling software:
1995/3/6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:31789 Activity:nil 78%like:31781
3/6     ONLY 1 DAY UNTIL:
        Cal Linux Users Group Meeting (CALLUG).  Tuesday, March 7th.
        7:00 pm.  Sibley Auditorium, Bechtel Engineering Center.
        Agenda: Office Space, home site on the net, faculty sponsorship,
        LIVE SLACKWARE INSTALLATION DEMO, informal discussion after
        the meeting.  Promises to be a lot of fun.  Check out
        ucb.os.linux and for more information.  --nickkral
        \_ Linux sucks!
          \_ Yeah, just say no to hacked up inferior unix clones like Linux.
              \_ BSD has been ported to just about everything you can name.
          What has the hack called Linux been ported to?
          You know why?  Because the code sucks.
          Read the kernel source before you comment.
        \_use *bsd dude, go bears
         \_ BSD has been "ported" perhaps; have you ever tried to
            actually *run* it?  Gee hope you don't have any non-
            standard hardware...
            \_ but we all know its the code that counts. who needs
        \_ BSD programmer can write drivers if they need them.
        Not to mention, Linux drivers are hacks that
           often are busted.  That's why so many
           people move to FreeBSD and NetBSD.  The
           systems are much more robustly written.
        \_ great.  OS bigotry 1, MOTD 0
         \_ Hmm, time for an alt.flame newsgroup
          \_ newgroup alt.flame.motd?
2018/07/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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