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2018/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    

2005/3/11-5/9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36639 Activity:nil
3/11    Sendmail updated and support added for SMTP AUTH. Configuration
        continues, but you should be able to now authenticate over SSL
        and relay mail from your remote mail client. Consider it still
        in testing, however. Bugs to root.
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36599 Activity:kinda low
3/9     Hi, can pine and ispell (required for pine) be compiled/installed
        without root in my own home dir?  I switched my webhosting to http://aplus.net
        and they do not have any mail client installed (they run freebsd).
        Thanks.
        \_ Of course it can.
        \_ pine bad.  use mutt
                          \_ mutt is for girls and linux users,
                             real men use mh.
        \_ Hey what happened to your high quality vitamin C page that gets rid
           of acne, helps you lose weight, and gives you a lot of energy?
           It's no longer on http://ixix.com
2005/2/25-27 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/Networking] UID:36422 Activity:low
2/25    Hi motd.  A friend of mine wants to keep her AOL e-mail address (or
        set up forwarding) since she got a cable modem.  From what I found
        on http://aol.com, it sounds like she wants to switch from AOL Dial-up
        ($24/month) to AOL Broadband  ($15/month).  Is this the right way
        (I guess via AOL account management or calling them up)?
        Is there a cheaper way?  Anyone have any experience?  Thanks!
        \_ Tell your friend to let go and get a better permanent
           email address. @aol.com is a sign of stupidity.
           \_ What do you recommend?  I was thinking @cal.berkeley.edu, but
              when you send e-mail from your ISP account, people will start
              using the ISP e-mail and forget about the @cal.berkeley.edu
              account.  Yahoo! e-mail (gmail still being in beta) is all that
              comes to mind. -op
              \_ Umm, google doesn't seem to have the same concept of "beta"
                 as the rest of the world.  To steal a joke from some blog:
                 You should just think of "beta" as a hip type of product.
                 like "loose-fit" vs. "boot-cut" jeans.
              \_ Don't be so dense. You set it as the reply to address,
                 or better, the from address (though those loser webmail
                 services may not let you do that).
              \_ Set the From address in outlook.
              \_ To the two posters above:
                 reply-to is something I thought of already -- basically the
                 issue is that some friends will see the ISP e-mail address
                 in the From: and a number end up using that.
                 I thought you would be smart enough to see this problem,
                 at least without insulting me, which is why I didn't
                 write about it in the first place.
                 As for From:, don't most ISPs these days have blocks on
                 modifying this?
                 modifying this? -op
                 \_ No, they don't block modifying the From: header since it's
                    something damn near every mail client on the planet has
                    been able to do for nearly a decade, and if they started
                    to block mail based on From: headers it would cost them
                    literally millions in customer support calls, and, yes,
                    you are dense if you believe this is happening.  Perhaps
                    you're confusing it with the increasingly common and far
                    more lame practice of an ISP blocking port 25 outright
                    forcing customers to use its own smtp servers sxclusively.
                    \_ No, I'm not confusing modifying the From: header with
                       blocking port 25 outright by default (which SBC Yahoo!
                       DSL just enacted as you already know).  I honestly think
                       Comcast does the From: checks to alleviate spoofing,
                       but I guess I can check up on this to see if it's
                       still true. -op
                       \_ Comcast != most ISP's.  Perhaps you're thinking of
                          SPF (or the functionally equivalent thing Microsoft
                          is (was?) pushing)? -pp
                          \_ No I am not thinking of SPF or Microsoft's thing.
                             When I say "most ISPs", I am not referring to
                             absolute number of ISPs, big and small -- I am
                             referring to ISPs that users are most likely to
                             be using, such as Comcast cable Internet or SBC
                             Yahoo! DSL.
                             Perhaps I should have written "Comcast and SBC
                             Yahoo! DSL" instead of "most ISPs".
                             Anyways, I didn't just dream up of From: address
                             blocking.  It did happen, with something that
                             wasn't out in left-field.  ... was it uclink? -op
                             \_ Bugger if I know, I barely ever used uclink
                                even when I was on campus regularly. -pp
                                \_ Anyways, looks like with Comcast cable,
                                   custom From: addresses works fine.  And
                                   she can use that with @cal.berkeley.edu. -op
                     \_ I have comcast and have my own From field. It works fine.
                        \_ Thanks! -op
                 \_ I have just given up and started using SMTP forwarding
                    from my email provider rather than trying to munge from
                    addresses.  If your ISP blocks SMTP, try it w/ TLS or get
                    it unblocked?  Where there is a will, there is a way.
                    \_ meant to add, I use "msmtp" sendmail replacement to
                       use w/ a linux mail client.
        \_ My folks did something like that ... just call up customer
           service and they can switch you to a bring-your-own-access
           type service.
2005/2/15-17 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/Networking] UID:36179 Activity:high
2/15    To conclude yesterday's SBC yahoo thread, we are cancelling SBC
        Yahoo. Neither my wife nor I have sufficient fu or time to hack around
        the uniform port 25 block, which makes the DSL acct pretty much useless
        for her. tom mentioned using another port but socrates apparently won't
        accept outgoing mail via port 587 (tried telnet). I am now wondering
        what DSL providers don't uniformly block port 25.
        \_ Speakeasy DSL is somewhat more expensive, but they _really_ Get It
           when it comes to geek-friendly AUP's. What's the last time you've
           seen a DSL AUP which specifically says "we understand servers are
           cool and useful, feel free to run one, as long as you don't break
           any laws"?  -happy speakeasy customer for 2 years and counting
        \_ Stupid question, are you having problem sending email to specific
           address? Can you use <DEAD>smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com<DEAD> to send mail?
           \_ No and no.
        \_ Why don't you just pay any geeky looking kid off the street $20
           to set it up for you? This is totally basic stuff. If you were a
           CS major, you are an utter disgrace.
           \_ I wasn't and fuck you. Now, do you have an actual answer, bitch?
           \_ No and no (the latter was the first thing we tried).
        \_ I think, given the prevalence of spam-drone computers on residential
           broadband ISPs, blocking port 25 by default is the responsible thing
           to do.  Users who need it can just ask to be unblocked, right?  If
           they won't unblock you, then they're being lame.
           \_ No, not right, at least as far as SBC Yahoo is concerned.
           \_ No, not right, at least as far as SBC Yahoo is concerned. They
              have a form that says you can unblock, but their own person
              was apparently unwilling to even look into it and said no outside
              servers period. Go figure.
        \_ Call them up, and they will unblock port 25 very quickly for you.
           They did it within one day for my mother.
           \_ How recently was this? The person my wife spoke to would not
              budge.
        \_ My co-worker had the same issue last week and he just unblocked port
           25 through SBC, and now everything works.  He did complain he had
           to reboot his DSL modem before it registered.
           \_ I am wondering now what key phrase I need to use on the phone to
              get to a high enough tier that the person on the phone can make
              the change...
              \_ I believe all he did, and what other people on motd seem to
                 have done as well, is:
                 3. Request that SBC removes the SMTP port filter from your
                    account: on our Abuse of Service form, enter the details
                    of your request in the Abuse Description field.
                 Abuse of Service form:
                 http://help.sbcglobal.net/servabuse.php
                 \_ Basically yes, with the final step being to reboot the
                    modem and computer after receiving notification that the
                    change has been made. FYI to the patronizing turd that
                    made noise about changing Eudora...that won't work.
                    socrates doesn't allow connections to port 587. Changes to
                    the mail client might work for other accounts or if your
                    object is to use sbc's SMTP server, though.
                    \_ socrates is going to stop mail service entirely in
                       less than a month.  -tom
                       \_ I was wondering when you were going to mention that
                          part. Aforementioned spouse is going to use
                          socrates for mail until the last possible moment. I
                          suppose she'll use calmail thereafter.
                          \_ Aforementioned spouse needs to get a clue.  -tom
        \_ In outlook, I had to choose "smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com" and then
           use "My Server Requires Authentication". Don't know if this will
           help you or not...
           \_  No (see above). Specifically, this will not work for sending
               mail via socrates or calmail.
        \_ If they block port 25, how do they expect you to send mail?
           \_ block port 25 except to authenticated SBC email relays
        \_ You must be joking!  I was the one who suggested port 587 - after
           yesterday's discussion I went to the link Tom posted, filled out
           the "opt-out-port-25" form, and got a response within a few hours.
           Works fine after rebooting the modem...
           \_ I got a level 2 person a few minutes ago. They said they did it
              but I won't know for sure until tonight.
              \_ Alright. It all worked and thanks everybody for being
                 insistent.
                 \_ Why do you want to continue giving your hard earned money
                    to a company that provides a service that is so poor you
                    need to repeatedly ask for third party (e.g. the motd)
                    assistance?
                    \_ Maybe it's not Yahoo being teh thei, maybe the MOTD
                       is just SUPER DUPER /<-R@D?!?!?!?1111  -John
        \_ I just opted out of port 25 blocking using the URL and it took less
           than 2 hours for them to turn around the request and get it done.  -ax
2005/2/14-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36164 Activity:high
2/13    We just got SBC yahoo DSL and can't send http://socrates.berkeley.edu or
        calmail mail with Eudora anymore.  We already changed SMTP server over
        as per help page suggestion. Anybody else had trouble with this?
        \_ http://support.sbcglobal.net/article.php?item=4640
           \_ Thanks but we already changed the SMTP server over, which is what
              above article is mostly about, and we still can't
              send via socrates or calmail. I'm wondering whether we should just
              cancel before the intro period is over.
           \_ They pulled this shit on my mother last week, and I wasted a good
              4 or 5 hours of my life trying to figure out how she could have
              screwed up her email.  Instead it was SBC fucking things up.
              \_ You should be angry at the spammers for forcing SBC to do
                 this, rather than SBC.
                 \_ wrong.  there were any number of ways SBC could have
                    approached the problem.  they made the most brain-dead
                    decision which would piss off the widest array of
                    customers.
                    \_ The truth is actually a little worse. They approached
                       the problem by making it conspicuously more difficult to
                       send email by means other than their proprietary
                       browser/mailer...which exists primarily to harvest
                       marketing data and re-direct people to sponsored material
                       a la AOL. I suppose that's what to expect from the
                       cheapest DSL provider, though.
                    \_ Are you the kind of person who feels ok stealing online
                       music because "that's how it ought to be anyway"?  Use
                       the service as it's provided, or don't use it at all.
                       \_ It's against the TOS, the TOS are stupid, there are
                          better ways of doing this, this has nothing at all
                          to do with stealing music, switch ISPs and tell them
                          to go fuck themselves sideways, tell all your
                          friends to switch (I would--remember that maxim
                          about each dissatisfied customer equalling 13 p.o'ed
                          customers?  SBC might not..) write them a letter
                          explaining that you're switching and why, and wash
                          your hands of it, don't give money for shitty
                          service, don't argue with braindead "take-it-or-
                          leave-it" morons, enjoy your day.  -John
                       \_ This was a change in service that breaks a commonly
                          used feature.  Do you liken Dynamic DNS and running
                          your own mail server to stealing music?  Or even if
                          running your own server was against TOS, connecting
                          to an authorized SMTP server with your browser was
                          not.  This was stupid.  Plain and simple.
                          \_ Would you say that it's ok to race in a rental
                             car, even though it's against the TOS?  The SBC
                             TOS is clear in that customers are not to run
                             *any* servers.  If you don't like it, find another
                             dsl provider.
                             \_ Meyers, are you being obtuse deliberately?
                                Yes, it stops spammers from sending out mail.
                                But they had infinite options to curb the
                                problem, and they picked the one that pissed
                                off the most people.  And did you just not read
                                the post before answering?  Are you getting
                                kickbacks from SBCi?
                                \_ See, this is where you have your head up
                                   your ass. They do not have infinite options.
                                   I have run an ISP and stopping your users
                                   from sending spam is techinically very
                                   from sending spam is technically very
                                   hard. I am curious what you think would
                                   be easier to implement that would work
                                   just as well and would piss off less
                                   people.
                                \_ I agree that running a private mail server
                                   for the household is hardly a strain on
                                   the bandwidth you pay for, but SBC (and
                                   Comcast, etc) spell out what they allow for
                                   how the connection can be used.  It's
                                   funny listening to how much motd-types are
                                   sticklers for the exact letter of the law
                                   or a contract, until it becomes
                                   inconvenient for them.  But hey, let the
                                   free market decide, right?  -meyers
                                   \_ You're missing the point; SBC is blocking
                                      *outgoing* connections to port 25, not
                                      incoming connections to mail servers.
                                      (They might be blocking connections to
                                      mail servers, too, but that's not the
                                      issue posed.)  I'm sure using Eudora is
                                      not against the TOS.
                                        -tom
                                      \_ No, the point is SBC defines what
                                         their service includes, and if you
                                         don't like it you can find another
                                         provider.  Where are the defenders
                                         of the free market?? -meyers
                                         \_ The free market has been
                                            mathematically proven to produce
                                            sub-optimal results.  -tom
                                            \_ Wow, you seem really smart.
                                   \_ Read the op's post below.  Reread the
                                      above post.
                                   \_ Although I'm sure the SBC policy is
                                      very clear on this one wonders what
                                      actually constitutes a "server" vs.
                                      a "client" when everyone is utilizing
                                      P2P to distribute crap. Remember, the
                                      letter of the law is hardly ever
                                      clear, which is why lawyers get paid.
                                      -williamc
                                      \_ Why don't you just put together a
                                         fund to deport the whiny users to
                                         canada?  Then you don't even have to
                                         really address the issue at all.
                                         \_ Actually, I'd rather you apply for
                                            the fund. It's better to deport
                                            morons like you who attempt
                                            non sequitor comments.
                                            -williamc
                                            \_ How's this for a non sequitur:
                                               FUCK YOU.
                                               \_ Oooh! I like that one!
                                            \_ Speaking of morons, maybe you
                                               should learn to spell.
                                               \_ Woohoo!  The old
                                                  spelling insult!  There
                                                  should be some law
                                                  similar to Godwin's that
                                                  refers to spelling.
                                                  \_ And pronouncing Nuclear.
                                                     \_ Oh, wait...how did you
                                                        pronounce that again?
                                                        I'd ding you on it,
                                                        but since motd is
                                                        FUCKING TEXT, I guess
                                                        I'll just have to
                                                        assume that you
                                                        pronounced it wrong.
                                                        Dumbass.
                                                        \_ I was replying to
                                                           the "Godwin's law"
                                                           comment.  I guess
                                                           some dumbass used
                                                           motdedit.  Dumbass
                                                \_ MOTD inded has become the
                                                   lowest form of what Cal has
                                                   to offer when one is atacked
                                                   on a typo. Here's a quartur,
                                                   go buy yourself a brin,
                                                   atach it to your moth,
                                                   learn how to use the former
                                                   with the later, and stop
                                                   spewing out BS. -williamc
                                                   \_ *yawn*  Train harder,
                                                      grasshopper.
                                                   \_ Of course, this rather
                                                      assumes that I think
                                                      you're worth the effort.
                                      \_ Exactly.  I think the cable modem
                                         TOS forbids running code from a
                                         remote machine.  Woudln't this mean
                                         the customer can't run Java applets?
                                         -meyers
                             \_ Oh good grief. We're not running a server. My
                                wife is just trying to send and receive email
                                on her university accounts. But, as you say,
                                we may cancel SBC since the port 25 blocking
                                may make it more trouble to use than it is
                                worth. -op
                                \_ All you have to do is make a very slight
                                   change to Eudora to send your wife's email
                                   through the Yahoo mail proxy. I am pretty
                                   surprised that it took you 4 hours to
                                   figure this out.
                                \_ Good man.  I think ISPs taking this sort of
                                   action are lazy and technically ignorant.
                                   They're not interested in a solution; there
                                   are other, better ways of doing things if
                                   they were, but rather, want to sell
                                   "business" connections.  Please write them
                                   a very clear letter _why_ you are switching
                                   providers, and that you are telling all
                                   your friends to do the same.  -John
                       \_ I'm not sure that expecting email to work is
                          that unreasonable. -!pp
        \_ SBC is now blocking port 25 traffic to SMTP servers other than its
           own.  You can request to have your connection unblocked.  -tom
           \_ Got it. That must be the "Abuse of Service" form. Thanks, tom.
           \_ Alternatively, some servers also offer port 587 for sending mail,
              the idsg pages mention that (and it worked for me when SBC
              started blocking, I didn't know about that form...)
              \_ Would some of those servers include, say, calmail?
                 \_ Why don't you check for yourself?
                 \_ Or just try it - I'm using gateway.eecs, but another
                    server at UC Davis was configured the same way, it might
                    be a default server config now.  Just change from port
                    25 to 587, and see if it works...
2005/2/8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36104 Activity:high
2/8     Is there any way to get trn to keep its connection alive?  I keep
        getting a closed socket error.
        \_ Yeah, I'm having this problem with my gf too.
        \_ I also have this problem with trn.
           \_ It's been worse recently.  I wonder if it was done on
              purpose?  I used to leave trn running and come back later,
              but now if I do it seems to time out after 5 or 10 minutes.
2005/2/6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/Domains] UID:36079 Activity:nil
2/06    i forward my soda mail to another machine running
        spamassassin, but every mail that passes through soda gets

        3.1 SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL SPF: HELO does not match SPF record (softfail)
        [SPF failed: Please see http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=berkeley.edu&ip=128.32.112.233&receiver=gradlab.ucsd.edu]

        i tried following the instructions on
        http://spf.pobox.com/faq.html#forwarding
        but that didn't fix anything. what am i doing wrong?
        \_ It looks like you specified your sender address as user@berkeley.edu
           instead of user@csua.berkeley.edu.  If you post the whole message
           with headers (put it in /csua/tmp or something), we can probably
           give more specific advice.
           \_ /csua/tmp/fwd-mail-header.txt
              i don't specify a sender address anywhere - i just
              have a destination email address in my .forward
              thanks for helping.
              \_ Thanks.  Could you please make it readable?
                 \_ sure :)
                    \_ The .forward file is what doesn't work with SPF -- you
                       need to erase your .forward file, and use one of the
                       .procmailrc rules they suggest instead.  (It looks like
                       you have both right now, but that's not going to work:
                       the .forward file takes precedence, and it's not looking
                       at your .procmailrc at all.)
2018/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    

2005/1/27 [Recreation/Woodworking, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:35927 Activity:nil
1/27    How safe is it to open spam in pine? Will spammers somehow know I've
        been reading the messages?
        \_ Safe. No, not unless you view the URL, which launches Lynx.
        \_ You are using pine?!? By now, the k1dd35 have your ssn and
           are opening high limit cc's in your name.
2005/1/16-17 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:35737 Activity:low
1/16    I have some outlook express mail files from a different computer. Is
        there anyway to import them directly into Thunderbird without first
        putting them in outlook? Thanks..
        \_ the outlook files are in EML format right?
           you need to convert them, try something like
           http://csua.org/u/aq3 or http://csua.org/u/aq4
           though it's probably just easier to export all the files
           from outlook express and then import into thunderbird - danh
2005/1/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:35610 Activity:moderate
1/8     Is anyone having trouble sending mail from soda? I'm using
        nmh and I keep getting the following error:

        post: problem initializing server; [BHST] no servers available

        I tried connecting to sendmail on soda on port 25 but I can't
        get a response. Is the outgoing mail server different now (if
        so can someone w/ root update /usr/local/etc/mts.conf. tia?)
        \_ It means soda's load is too high and so it's MTA stops
           accepting new connections over the network (including over
           the loopback address), which is how MH sends out your message.
           Many other MUAs pass the message onto sendmail directly
           (basically "| /usr/sbin/sendmail someflags").  MH can be
           configured to do the latter, and this probably a better
           setup for Soda. ask root.
           \_ Isn't opening a pipe to sendmail worse than connecting
              via the SMTP port (in that it causes a fork() and one
              extra process to be spawned raising the load avg)?
              Would a separate box running sendmail help? I have an
              old Athlon XP box I've been trying to sell, but I'd
              donate it to the csua if it would help with mail
              problems. (If an Athlon XP is overkill, I can probably
              find an Ultra 1 or 2).
              \_ the sendmail daemon forks off a sendmail to process
                 incoming mail.
        \_ I get strange delays forwarding my mail to gmail using procmail.
           "xxx@gmail.com... Deferred: Operation timed out with [127.0.0.1]"
           Is this the same load issue? Only seems to happen with mail
           from Uclink.
           Is this the same load issue? Only seems to happen with messages
           I receive from Uclink.
2004/11/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:34825 Activity:moderate
11/11   Simple question I suppose, but this happened to me with an ISP in
        Japan. Have two email accounts set up.  First account has forwarding
        to the second account.  The 2nd account recently set up a vacation
        reply. So mail arrives in first account, is forwarded to 2nd account,
        which in turn generates vacation reply, which the first account gets,
        it forwards that email, another vacation response is generated and
        received, etc, etc.  Pandemonium ensues.  The ISP called it a
        denial-of-service attack and is threatening to cut off service.  But
        this was an honest mistake (2nd account is used by a colleague and he
        set up vacation response on his client without telling me.)  Question:
        would any other ISP (or Soda) have been able to prevent this, or at
        least stop it before it brought down their system?
        \_ a reasonable vacation reply mechanism would implement loop
           detection headers and/or duplicate message-id checks (as should
           any other auto-responder).
           \_ Not to mention keeping track of recipients.  Your first
              ISP should also have some kind of reasonable loop detection.
              Tell them both that the gaijin tech gods have spoken and that
              they should get /<l00 or we'll whip out the black ships. -John
           \- Thanks for the replies.  Should these checks have been
              implemented on server software, client software (maybe there is
              a setting for "reply once"?), or both?
              \_ basic rule of computing: never trust clients, never rely on
                 clients to do the right thing.  your isps are both stupid.
                 \_ Not even a 'trust' question--this is basic mail server
                    config 101.
                    \_ I was making a more general statement about all client/
                       server relationships, not just mail.
           \_ But isn't a vacation responses a separate piece of e-mail
              similar to when the user does a reply, instead of a re-route of
              the original?  How does loop detection help in this case?
              \_ It should not be similar; it should have a Precedence: junk
                 header, among other things.  And as noted above, the vacation
                 program should keep track of recipients.  -tom
              \_ it should notice its own message sent  back to itself and
                 not reply.  this would solve OP's problem.  you are right
                 that this might not help two vacation systems in a volley,
                 but that is caught by not sending vacation notices to the
                 same recipient within some time period, e.g. a week.
2004/10/22-23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:34284 Activity:nil
10/22   Is it possible to use includes in virtusertable (sendmail)?
        So that I can have, say, a virtusertable.d directory that I put various
        files I want to include in. (I don't mind if i have to have an
        entry per file as opposed to "include virtusertable.d/*".
2004/10/18-19 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:34196 Activity:nil
10/18   $ uptime
12:15PM  up 50 days,  8:21, 175 users, load averages: 60.94, 54.81, 44.90
        help
        \_ Wizard needs sendmail fu BADLY.
2004/10/15-17 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas] UID:34148 Activity:high
10/14   ok, WHO is fukcing w/ sendmail? load average is 80+ and there are
        100's of sendmail processes... same thing happend this morning at
        8am EDT. Someone just add some recursive procmail rule or some
        shit? This problem has been happening for a couple weeks but just
        got alot worse.                 - rory
        \_ also ps, is this normal?
           $ mailq | wc -l
           26070
           \_ no one responded to this... isnt this a ridiculously high
              number of messages to have queued on our system? w/ ~100
              users and a reasonable load?              - rory
              \_ Yes, it is.  Mail on soda ... is fucked.  No one currently
                 working on soda has the sendmail fu to fix this issue -
                 apparently it has something to do with forged headers
                 and virus emails.  It is not clear that the hardware plan
                 will fix the problem.  My advice is to use !soda for all
                 important email from now on.
        \_ I... want... an... upgrade...     -the soda machine
           \_ Faster hardware is not the answer to bad configurations or
              poor programming.  Unless you work for MS.
              \_ Soda's sendmail is completely fux0red.  I don't believe anyone
                 on current politburo knows how to unfux0r it.  Sendmail is
                 a dark art that has not been passed on to the younger
                 generation, apparently.  The new hardware will simply cause
                 the problem to expand to fill it.
                 \_ It's more that email in general is fux0red.  The sendmail
                    flurries are because of spam storms.  This is made worse
                    by rampant use of SA on a mainly user-centric box.  Offload
                    this task onto another server more or less dedicated to
                    mail handling and this problem will be mollified.
                    \_ I emailed pburo about this a while ago (I am sure the
                       others have also).  The response I got is that
                       'they are working on something.'  I was under the
                       impression they had a plan to offload spam filtering
                       to scotch or another machine or something.  I don't
                       think that's happening though. -- ilyas
                       \_ Yes, the plan is to move mail processing to scotch,
                          but that will not happen until we get a new scotch.
                          I am told that last time we tried moving over mail
                          processing to scotch (a Vectra), the poor machine
                          fell to its knees in no time.  The upgrade plan, as
                          it stands involves not only getting new hardware for
                          both soda and scotch, but moving the mail load over.
                          I know people are going to bitch and moan, but mail
                          processing needs to get off soda.  We're also going
                          to be adding email antivirus options (I think njh
                          has been poking around with ClamAV) to deal with the
                          plethora of attachment-rich virus email. - jvarga
                 \_ alright well what can we do about it? Dont alot more
                    people have root than who are in the politburo? Has
                    politburo come to by synonymous with "soda sys admins"?
                                Thank you for pointing that out _/
                        It was more of a question but thanks _/
                        for the snarky commentary
                    I know very little about sendmail... I'm guessing maybe
                    someone w/ access could look in the logs at when these
                    huge performance spikes are occurring? Is it a regular
                    time daily/weekly? Does it correspond w/ mail to a
                    \_ Rumor has it that it has something to do with virii and
                         "virii" is not a word.  The word you were _/
                         looking for is "viruses"
                       spoofed Reply-To: headers that aren't being properly
                       dealt with, but I know nothing for sure.
                    certain user? Does a procmail problem seem like a
                    certain user? Does procmail problem seem like a
                    possible candidate?                 - rory
                    \_ We are busy testing NFS. Thanx! -politburo!
                       \_ NFS for mailspools?  yeesh...
        \_ On the subject of mail, weren't people supposed to use spamc
           for spamassassin? I see a whole lot of "perl spamassassin" jobs.
           A conservative antivirus thing would be good. Also, on the scotch
           subject, is that "dual Xeon" choice just an imperial fiat? It
           doesn't seem to be under any debate (hint: use AMD).
           \_ No no, by all means, use Xeons.  It will be so fun when Soda
              melts a hole in the machine room wall.
              \_ Uh, yeah.  I own AMD stock and no Intel, but really.  Let's
                 be rational about this.
2004/9/28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:33791 Activity:nil
9/28    Wouldn't a great way for spammers to get emails just be to setup
        SMTP relays and record every address that passes through? Is this
        possible? Anyone think this is done?
        \_ better, less tiem consuming method, would be to hack their way
           into a SMTP server and just grab its logs.  You get all the same
           information without havnig to have a long-term presence on the
           machine.  -ERic
           \_ well I just ask because a friend claims that by including him
              on emails that I've sent out To: multiple people (as opposed
              to Bcc), I'm somehow increasing his chances of getting spam.
              I was just trying to think of a way that might be possible.
              Anyone think he's right/wrong? why
              \_ Wrong.  You don't just "setup a SMTP relay" and magically mail
                 starts flowing through it.  (Unless you make it "open", in
                 which case spammers will find it and send _their_ mail through
                 it).
              \_ Kinda True. If your friend sends an email to someone who
                 has a mail client that captures those addresses (Outlook),
                 and they get a virus which has it's own smtp server (Bagle)
                 it can send emails out as you or to you.
2004/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:33783 Activity:kinda low
9/27    Looking for colo in Berkeley/Oakland/SF (we provide box)
        The best I've seen so far is http://coloserve.com $100/mo for 100GB transfer
        Has anyone dealt with them/know anyone better?  Thanks
        \_ check http://www.vix.com/personalcolo ? -EricM
        \_ That works out to about 320kbps.  Maybe you should just get
           DSL and host it yourself.
           \_ Think about traffic patterns for a minute.  Also, colo gives
              you dedicated power/AC maintenance.  Depending on how you're
              going to use the connection, the colo is likely the more cost
              effective way to go.
        \_ I was looking for same thing yesterday.  If you http://HE.net down in
           Fremont is okay with you, you can go to:
           http://www.nationhosts.com
           http://www.netspaceinternet.com
           they give 1mbps at 95%(~200GB) for $75-85 for 1U.  If this is
           just a personal thing and you'll have low bandwidth, I've actually
           decided to rent out a space on a friend's rack.  E-mail me and I'll
           see if he's interested more tenants.  - johndkim
2004/9/14-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:33531 Activity:nil
9/14    Why are there a crapload of sendmail processes?  Is someone using
        soda to send spam?
        \_ Just a WAG, but hundreds of users having mail forwarded?
2004/9/10 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:33459 Activity:insanely high
9/10    Someone reboot soda, "no more process"??? wtf?
        \_ Somebody's imapd spun out of control.  all fixed.  btw, there's
           no reason other than an updated kernel to reboot soda.
           \_ What if there's a runaway process like this?
              main() { while(1) fork(); }
              \_ Then squishy-squishy goes you!
        \_ what does it mean? why do I get this?
           \_ it means too much politics. troll less.
        \_ So now my pine mailbox is inaccessible because i can't
            kill the old running pine.  I can't even seem to kill the old
            pine job. Any ideas? Tx.
            \_ Kill the login that spawned pine.
                \_ Already did - still can't kill that pine job.
                   \_ What signal are you sending to kill?
                      \_ Just "kill ######".
                         \_ Standard kill sends SIGTERM which is equivalent to
                            "Please exit right now".  Try 'kill -9 ####' which
                            sends SIGKILL which is "You die now!"
                \_ /bin/kill -9 -1.  Kills *everything* you are running on
                   the machine.  "It's the only way to be sure"
                        \_ Thanks - worked.
2004/9/9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:33427 Activity:moderate
9/8     So, I asked this a few years ago, it seems there should have been
        some progress on this front:   A calendar server for linux?
        Would be nice if it could work with outlook clients but not
        mandatory, would be nice if people could update their Cals from
        the web, would be nice if it was free.  I'm looking at calcium
        which seems like http://www.brownbearsw.com has just taken their
        popular but kind of klunky (and not free) ical and ported it to
        perl. [spelld]
        \_ There exist a number of commercial products for Linux including
           probably the ones from IBM, Oracle, and Sun/iPlanet but I don't
           think they work with Lookout.
        \_ Isn't there something from Ximian that apes all the nifty Exchange
           stuff?  Look around, there's quite a few things along these
           lines.  I believe Outlook is also fairly flexible in how it
           synchronizes with various apps.  For a nice web-based groupware,
           look at phprojekt.  I have some others lying around, mail me
           if you want me to dig them out.  -John
2004/8/24-25 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:33111 Activity:high
8/24    How do I find out who is on the receiving end of root@csua,
        politburo@csua, etc?
        \_ /etc/mail/aliases
        \_ grep
        \_ /usr/sbin/sendmail -bv root
           /usr/sbin/sendmail -bv politburo
           (This is the general sendmail expansion command. Soda's sendmail
            config might not let it give the right ansers to non-root users tho)
           \_ It actually gives more useful answers if you're not root,
              although the output's kind of annoying to read.  You can run
              ~mconst/bin/expn to get the same data with nicer formatting.
              --mconst
        \_ why the hell are these alum still on the list?
         one-true-root: jon,mconst,brett,scotsman,ajani,twohey,njh,erikk,galen
           \_ why shouldn't they be?
           \_ Because these alums still run the systems -njh
              \_ Shouldn't the elected student VP be doing that?
                 \_ and the elected VP has chosen to benefit from their
                    wisdom and experience.  the VP has also chosen to
                    delegate the responsibilities.
                    \_ The current politburo is about the laziest and
                       most apathetic I've seen in a looong time.
                       Are these guys resume padders or what?
                       \_ This won't help anyone's resume if that's what
                          they think.
2004/8/16-17 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32946 Activity:moderate
8/16    Anybody know of an existing program similar to pop-before-smtp
        but for IMAP. It wou use a current IMAP connection to allow
        SMTP relaying from the same IP addres as that IMAP connection?
        \_ it's the same program, just change the regexp used to search
           for login lines and change the logfile watched
           \_ Nope, That does not work. IMAP connections are persistent and
              the users don't login repeatedly if their mail client is
              open.  I need a program that uses the IMAP connection status
              something that would use this sort of data to create a db
              of allowed IP addresses:  netstat --numeric-hosts | grep imap
              If I can't find such software, perhaps I'll have to create it.
              \_ Actually, I've rethought my previous post. I think
                 pop-before-smtp IS the right program, it just needs a
                 feature to not expire an IP address if that user is
                 still connected on the IMAP port. Simply allowing
                 relay for any IP connected to the IMAP port would
                 be a huge spam opening. -op
        \_ the "one true way" is to set up SMTP AUTH.  The better way to
           do pop/imap-before-smtp is to get the pop/imap daemon to update
           your relay tables themselves instead of getting another daemon
           to watch them and clean up afterward.
           \_ Run this over SSL if you want to be especially tidy.  If you
              need help under postfix, I can give you a hand.  I found it to
              be tricky when trying to set up under FreeBSD though (prob. due
              to master.passwd.)  -John
2004/6/30-7/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:31093 Activity:high
6/30    Poll, how many people use the followings?
        mehlhaff's motd,v: ....
        kais motd:...
        \_ I don't use it because it's not text/command line based. Also
           I don't use software written by fags
           \_ if you snd/rcv mail on soda then you do. just logging
              in and posting to the motd probably means you're using
              software written by a fag, at least indirectly.
              \_ that's because soda sucks and uses sendmail instead of qmail.
                 what does uclink use?
                 \_ uclink uses /dev/null as its mta; it no longer exists
                 \_ That might have been a good argument, 5 years ago.  But
                    djb is a lofty thinker who doesn't care much about
                    interoperation, extensibility, and many other things.
                    Sendmail has gotten better.  Qmail hasn't.
           \_ why do you hate queer people?
        \_ I don't use it because I don't even know about it.
        wrote my own archiver: .
        yermom: .
        \_ i mostly use mehlhaff's. I set up my own once but then thought it's
           pointless to duplicate the effort. mehlhaff usually keeps his stuff
           going pretty well. i have visited kais a few times but it's too
           much of a bother for my usual usage. maybe if it had a better
           interface with links/lynx.
2004/6/25-26 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:31004 Activity:nil
6/24    Is there a way to download a mail folder from say hotmail to my
        own computer, or the whole account, other than forwarding
        to myself or click and save them one by one?
        \_ for yahoo, there's something called yahoo pops. you might find
           something similar for hotmail.
        \_ MrPostman, a Java pop3 proxy  that allow you to use regular pop3
           client to download hotmail / yahoo email.
        \_ try outlook or outlook express: link:csua.org/u/7xi
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30849 Activity:very high
6/16    How do I convert the following to be used in a Bourne shell in
        procmailrc?
           if ($space < 200000) then
              set limit = 0
           endif
        The purpose is to make sure that all mail goes to my inbox, rather
        than mail folders if I'm nearing my quota.  $space is how much disk
        space I have available.  $limit determines if a message gets
        filtered, or just goes to the inbox by default.  If limit is
        set to zero, then all messages go to Inbox.
        I tried:
            if test $space -lt 200000; then
              limit = 0
            fi
        But I keep getting
           procmail: Skipped "$space -lt 200000; then "
        in the log.  I'm sure the answer to this is trivial to someone
        out there, so please help.  -frustrated
        \_ Don't do it in procmail; just write a script to calculate the right
           value for $limit, and call it in backquotes from your procmailrc.
           \_ Good idea.  I'll try it.  -hopefully soon to be not frustrated
              \_ Thanks.  Works like a charm.  -relieved
2004/6/14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30793 Activity:insanely high
6/14    I accidentally deleted an email message a few minutes ago
        with pine - how can I retrieve it?  Thanks.
        \_ If you used mh, girls would be all over you. Because what turns
           a hot girl on more than a geek who doesn't shower and spends
           his time checking his mail via mh and composing e-mails in vi?
        \_ If you used mh it would have been trivial to save a second copy of
           all your emails.  But, oh wait, you used pine.  Shit, I dunno.
           Sorry!
           \_ actually if op used mh, then all he would have neede to do
              would be:
                mv Mail/<folder>/#<msg num> Mail/<folder>/<msg num>
                mv Mail//# Mail//
                \_ oh yeah, forgot.  I changed the default.
        \_ cat/dd the raw disk device or memory into a (big) file and
           trawl throug there. you may already be too late. i have recovered
           stuff from emacs crashes/errors a few times that way. --psb
                \_ most pine users lack the necessary fu.
           \_ don't have permissions to access these on soda, or I don't
              know how. Thanks.
              \_ if you knew how you wouldn't be a pine user....
        \_ Too bad.  Ask the original author to resend it.
2004/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30779 Activity:very high
6/13    How does one tell a linux box to use the company mail server, thus
        keeping me from having to run a mail server on my boy.  I think it is
        a relay tag somewhere, but I don't remember.  I used to know.
        \_ I thought you could set up your mail program to just use the
           server of your choice?  (It's been a long time since I've done
           this)
           \_ You can with many, but not all, mail programs. For the general
              case, look into something like esmtp or ssmtp.
        \_ Linux is only a kernel.  There is no such thing as "telling a linux
           box to use the company mail server".  To answer your question, we
           would need to know your mail client which isn't a part of 'linux'.
           \_ there's a set of 5 patches to do this in the kernel, which need
              to be applied by hand, with some hand editing because they
              conflict in few places.
              \_ uh yeah that seems worth it.
           \_ look if you know the answer for ANY linux box. then i am
              interested.  The vast majority of people here are using either
              sendmail or postfix to "sendmail" in linux and the solution for
              either would have been perfect, the solution for qmail would be
              interesting.  I almost added "Sendmail or postfix" to the post
              but, as i said, i'd be interested in qmail, or even EXIM or...
              and i thought that by specifying the OS, people would realize
              i was asking about system level and not about individual mail
              client level.  Clearly I was mistaken. -top
              \_ ok ya big baby... it goes like this: the easiest thing to do
                 so all your mail clients just work is to setup any mail server
                 to only collect mail locally and set the smart host to be your
                 ISP's mail server.  For sendmail you want the DS line in the
                 sendmail.cf.  In procmail, I forget the exact method but the
                 main.cf and master.cf are very well self documenting.  I think
                 it's in main.cf.  And qmail has Yet Another Stupid Dinky
                 Pointless Single Line Config File for this which has some
                 stupid djb syntax you don't want to learn.  I've done it in
                 qmail but it was far to painful to bother for anything I'm
                 qmail but it was far too painful to bother for anything I'm
                 not getting paid to do.
                 \_SMART host, that's what i couldn't remember.  tnx, and
                   gaga googoo.
2004/6/8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30681 Activity:insanely high
6/8     How does one, using trn, post on a newsgroup with a fake reply-to
        address?  I just what to change it to
        jrleek@no.spam.soda.berkeley.edu or some such.
        \_ I am pretty sure you have to edit the source and recompile.
        \_ Pnews.  Maybe you'll need to hack inews too.  It's been ages
           since I've looked at rn.
2004/5/31 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30507 Activity:high
5/31    What's up with the NNTP server? I haven't been able to read my
        newsgroups in 2 days.
        \_  I assume agate is among the computers affected by the planned power
            outage.  Can anyone confirm?
            \_ ping agate
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30476 Activity:high
5/29    If I set up smtp_over_ssl/tsl/smtp-auth do clients who know about it
        just connect straight to port 465 (or whatever it is) or is an inital
        connection to 25 still required to kickoff TTLS ??
        \_ I think there's a STARTTLS command that will work over the normal
           port.
            \_ O.k. but if I don't want to use the normal port do i have to
               start it that way, or is 465 listening to me without my
               having to do an initial handshake on port 25
               \_ It depends on how you have your mail server setup.
2004/5/11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30153 Activity:insanely high
5/10    You arrive at work.
        There is a mailbox here.
        > run outlook
        You have contracted an Outlook Virus.
        Your Inbox is full of emails from your friends wondering why you
        are sending them huge attachments.
        > claw out the eyes of your IT department who forced you to use Outlook\
        I don't understand 'claw.'
        You are in danger of being eaten by a grue.
        > go north?
        You are at the copy machine.
        There is some IT dork here photocopying invites to his Ren Faire
        pre-party.
        The IT dork drools on you.
        > talk to dork
        His name is Tom Holub, a total l0zer. You ignore him.
        Tom says: "Do you really think I'd be a Ren Faire type?"
        Tom gives you a twink point.
        > kill tom
        You slash him with your blessed antique samurai sword.
        You wish that you would stop bleeding!
        You wish that you would stop bleeding!
        Tom is here.
        > strip pants
        The Tom appears confused.
        > take xerox paper
        You are now burdened.
        Tom gives you a twink point.
        > give xerox paper to tom
        Tom does not want the Xerox paper.
        A PHB has entered the room.
        > bend tom over
        What do you want to bend Tom over?
        The PHB asks "Where are your pants!?"
        > strip tom's pants
        Tom goes away to complain on the motd.
        The PHB seems agitated.
        > apply ky on tom
        Tom is not here!
        > bend phb over
        Not while burdened!
        The PHB recites the University's sexual harassment policy.
        The PHB has exited to the east.
        > go east
      It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
              \_ hey this isn't an iraqi torture thread
        \_ uh, do you really think I'd be a Ren Faire type?  -tom
        > kill tom
        You slash him with your blessed antique samurai sword.
        You wish that you would stop bleeding!
        You wish that you would stop bleeding!
        Tom is here.
        >strip pants
        \_ What is PHB anyway?
           \_ 'Pointy-Haired Boss'.  Used to refer to a clueless middle
              management type.  From the Dilbert character of the same name.
        > search
        I don't understand that.
        > search room
        You find a box of Fruity Crack.
        > take box
        You have a box of Fruity Crack.
        It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
        > go north
        You are in the Ladies' Restroom.
        There is a Hot Receptionist here.
        The PHB is here.
        > drop xerox paper
        You are no longer burdened.
        > grab receptionist's chest from behind
        The Hot Receptionist screams.
        The Hot Receptionist slaps you.
        The PHB recites the University's sexual harassment policy.
        The PHB has exited to the south.
        > quit
        Your score is 0 [total of 585 points], in 19 moves.
        This gives you the rank of Beginner.
      \_ does anyone really find this amusing?
           \_ yes
         \_ yes, my coworkers are looking at me funny
      \_ http://thcnet.net/error/index.php To the Source, motders!
      \_ Can we upgrade to a more erotic version of the game?
        SodaZork 1.1 beta
        > run outlook
        There is a sexy mailbox here.
        > open mailbox
        The mailbox contains:
        Viagra
        A porno magazine
        > take viagra
        Taken.
        > w
        It is pitch dark. You are likely to be sodomized by a grue.
        > eat viagra
        As soon as you swallow the Viagra, you notice the package says
        "sugper viagrga".
        Nothing happens.
        Two hot chicks have entered the room.
        > look chicks
        The hot chicks smile seductively at you.
        It is romantically dim.  You are likely to be sodomized by a grue.
        > set porno magazine on fire
        You have no means of ignition.
        The hot chicks make pouty faces at you.
        >
        \_ ok, as i recall, in the real zork you only got two warnings about
           darkness before being eaten(sodomized) by a grue.  At this point,
           the player should be dead, having failed to generate light with the
           burning pornos.
        > lay hands on chicks' waists
        You have been sodomized by a Grue.
        Your score is 0 [total of 585 points], in 38 moves.
2004/5/11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:30149 Activity:nil Edit_by:auto Entry has been invalidated. Access denied.
2004/4/29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:13474 Activity:nil
4/29    In the past generations of hackers/computer enthusiasts, it seems like
        the general political thrust was a general distrust of government
        combined with an enthusiasm about the future - a classical sort of
        "hippy" outlook.  I get the feeling now, though, that the newer
        generation around here tends more towards supporting the government
        and a fear of the future - the Patrick Buchanan outlook if you will.
        Any ideas on why this shift?  Just a generational thing?
        \_ computer geeks are attracted to simplistic, self-centered ideologies.
           for those working in a government funded lab, that means socialism,
           and for those working in industry that means libertarianism.  the
           90's saw a major increase in the fraction of hackers working in
           industry.  they chose their childish ideology accordingly.
           \_ Speaking of simplistic, self-centered ideologies.....
           \_ Christ paolo, get off the fucking cross and start living your
              life.
        \_ Clinton-haters got computers and the Internet
           \_ They should be grateful to Al Gore
        \_ That is not Patrick Buchanan's political outlook.
2004/4/23-24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:13356 Activity:nil
4/23    Does anyone care to share any experiences they've had with *nix
        virus scanning software for email (I have sendmail in mind)?
        Free packages are preferable, stability is very important,
        execution speed and very frequent updates not as important. Thanks.
        \_ This is not a troll, but why do you need virus scanning on *nix?
           \_ Unix mail server for Windows clients?
        \_ I really like sophos.  I don't think you'll find any free suites
           out there, but Sophos MailMonitor has a very small footprint, is
           updated very frequently, and is easy to maintain.  It also has a
           very transparent appearance to the end user.  They allow you the
           full version for trial.  I think the cost was about $23/mailbox/
           year, with a 50% discount for buying ahead 3 years. --scotsman
        \_ I like what I've seen so far of clamscan, but I just installed
           it and haven't used it much yet.  -phuqm
        \_ Don't use Symantec SMTP Gateway for Solaris. It sucks ass.
2004/4/12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:13138 Activity:high
4/11    anyway- things here have quiting down a little, A LOT of people
        took off, fucking whimps, fluor might end up loking like the bad
        asses out here since we are sticking it out, hell even our client
        took off and just screwed everyone doing so, so while the fluor
        group is just kicking ass and taking names, the guys we work for
        (who are responsible for proviing power), just took off. The damn
        military is taking over the power situation which in a lot of
        sears really saves our ass from some maintance and warrantee
        situations.  we are all still
        ....  old message.. the fucking intenet here goes down like all
        the time.  hey maybe it is up again,
          work here has gotten really boring as of late, I use to be able
        to walk around the site and check out all teh action, as the
        controls guy that is my job- to know exactly what is going on
        everywhere and make sure I can report up to upper guys what the
        status is plus the game plan and time requirements for the future
        plus any snaggs in the way, I never had a car here and the job
        site is like a mile away but it was no big deal since I would
        just walk or hitch a ride, but NOW it is like impossible, since
        everyone is required to have their flack vest aand helmut walking
        out there is made quite difficult, everyone just keeps theres in
        the car, so ya I guess I could hitch a ride but i would be tied
        to that guy for the whole time which restricts his activities, of
        course 3 of the guys now have NOTHING to do since their sub
        contractors walke out of here today.  but still boss hasn't
        asigned a car to me.
          plus our mess hall is closed and now we have to use the miltiary
        DFAC for food, of course that means I have to hitch a ride with
        someone,god damn this place is filled with flys, anyway using the
        DFAC is ok but due to the shear number of troops on this base it
        is just so damn crowded you wouldn't believe it- this base is
        lieterally bursting at the seems
          opps there goes the net again,
        i'll tell you getting p3 installed on my computer is a god send
        (is that the right phrase- god send?) anyway hoefully I can use
        that to parlay into a decent paying job, it really sucks never
        have access to the cool software which allows people to do there
        jobs, its like you really need to hook up with the right company
        which will prpvide you the training ) and see that is the whole
        key or I should say problem- even though as of 2 weeks ago I had
        never touched p3, I would consider myself an expert- I understanf
        all the theory behond scheduling- just not the actual commands
        and where they are on the software product,
          people use train to train people on business fucntions while at
        the same time training them on software intricacies, that is BS
        the 2 are totally seperate, I understand all the thoery just need
        to know where to find ceertain functions, of course that is just
        because most people are just stupid.. that is really weird, I
        mean when i grew up it wasn't like I was that much smarter than
        everyone else, but know from my experience working I can walk
        cicles around these guys have you noticed that as well..
          anyway this delay is really bugging me again more later mor bomds
        are hitting later - kinney
2004/4/9-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:13116 Activity:nil
4/9     I am switching to a maildir format with my mail server so I can
        implement virtual domains with courier imap.  What should I
        recommend to users who are used to using pine.  I don't want to
        have to patch pine for maildir.  We,^H^H^H Some of these users have
        been using pine since their teens and are now well into their 30s
        and the transition many not be easy so i want to avoid telling them
        "learn mh".  Anything out there pine-like that supports maildir that
        I can install for us^H^H them to use?
        \_hmm, if they connect with pine to 127.0.0.1:imap I needn't worry
          about plain-text password passing right?
          \_ pine + imap kinda sucks. I moved our mail system over to qmail+
             maildir, but forward my mail over to another machine so that
             i can still use good ol' pine. - ex-mh user
             \_ ex-mh user?  there are no ex-mh users.  and they sure as hell
                wouldn't go to pine.  you mean you tried mh one day and gave
                up because you couldn't read a man page so you switched to
                the most broken mailer available.
             \_ Belive pine supports SSL/TLS too. Though, my personal
                suggestion would be to get rid of pine since it's author
                refuses to support this useful mail box format. He seems
                to have a personal vendetta against maildir and djb.
                \_ just implement and fork it.  that's what OS is about!  the
                   original author owes you nothing.  scratch that itch!
        \_ make virtual domains use maildir, keep local mail in mbox.
           This is the way I have it setup. shell users use pine,
           remote folks use maildir/courier/imap/ssl
            \_ ok this sounds like a good idea, but how do i tell procmail(?)
               to deliver the mail differently to virtual domains?  Also,
               this means, i presume, that the shell users can't use imap
               even if they want to (which is ok, since I don't let them now
               anyway as my imap/pop is unencrypted).
               \_ You can't tell procmail to deliver mail differently to
                  virtual domains because procmail has no idea what a domain
                  is.  It is a *local* delivery agent.  There are hackish ways
                  to accomplish this, but you don't want to go there. -dans
        \_ A few useful things you should know:
           * cyrus >> courier >> uw imap
             I've set up and used all three.  Cyrus is a royal fucking pain
             in the ass to set up, but, once working, is a thing of beauty.
             Cyrus cannot be used with procmail (it's architectural, you can
             read the docs if you care).  Courier is solid, but it runs as
             root and that always bugged me.  Plus, it's performance on
             ludicrously sized mail folders (> 1.5G) was unacceptable (yes, I
             care, and if you're 30 and using pine, so do you).  UW IMAP is,
             like most ``production'' software that comes out of UW a steaming
             pile of shit which lacks features and includes bugs they refuse
             to fix for `political reasons.'
           * Mutt can be made to act like pine, just change the keybindings.
             It has better IMAP support to (which is pretty absurd when you
             realize that UW IMAP is supposed to be the reference
             implementation).  This is probably an hour of work, and somebody
             has probably already written the mutt-like-pine .muttrc if you're
             feeling lazy.
           * Why aren't you using SSL?  It is trivial to set up in both
             Courier and Cyrus, and not completely gross in UW.  You realize
             it takes about five minutes and costs nothing to roll your own
             CA, and create a cert for your imap server(s)?  Yes, self-signed
             certs are a pain with some client software, but since your
             concern is the dour-naysayer big fat sysadmin types, they'll
             figure it out.
             \_ we're not fat.  we don't have time to eat.  we spend our
                waking (and sleeping) hours cleaning up other people's messes
                and implementing other people's fucked up plans and then
                fixing them after the obvious happens.
                \_ You're well into your 30s and still using pine.  This is
                   the behavior of someone who likes putting out fires, not
                   someone who thinks strategically and applies his efforts to
                   minimize fires which buys more time in the long run.
                   \_ I'm well into my 30s and using mh.  pine doesn't even
                      exist on my systems.  -- !fat, !time, !stupid, sysadmin
                      \_ And you still feel the need to seek approval from
                         anonymous motd posters.  How's that working for you?
                         \_ That's one interpretation.  Wrong, but if you want
                            to think that, whatever.  You feel the need to
                            insult and attack anonymous motd posters.  How's
                            *that* working for *you*?  See?  It goes both ways
                            yet still means nothing.
           * The UW mailtool program (included with UW IMAP, I think) is your
             friend.  Sadly, there still exists no swiss army knife for
             converting between mailbox formats, but the UW mailtool is fairly
             good, and it speaks IMAP so you can convert mbox spools to
             maildir by having it talk to your maildir format IMAP server.
             Oh, yeah, if all your mail start being reported as the wrong date
             (i.e. the day you converted it), that's due to the maildir
             format, and how Courier implements it.  Notably, Cyrus, which
             uses its own maildir-like format (more or less non-standard
             maildir plus index file) does not suffer from this problem.
           * Bug me if you have any interest in running Cyrus, I have notes I
             took in order to write a how-to at some point in the future.
           - dans
2004/4/6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:13029 Activity:nil
4/6     Damn it, Why doesn't postfix have ./configure ?
        do these people really expect me to tack on 10 lines of
        CCARGS=-DHAS_stuffiwant -I/...  and
        AUXLIBS=-L/usr/local/lib...
        I mean, what, do they think i know what the hell i'm doing just
        because i don't want to use sendmail?
        \_ vote with your boots.  use something else.
           \_ neither sendmail nor qmail have gnu configure-based setup.
              \_ true, but sendmail's probably already installed and setup.
2004/3/25-26 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12850 Activity:low
3/25    When I using mutt and access IMAP folder at a remote server, how do
        I save an attachment to the local machine?  I used s(ave) but could
        find the file neither on the local machine nor in my remote IMAP
        folder.  Where did it go?
        \_ I figured it out.  Did it before but forgot.  Why can't mutt
           be more user friendly?
           \_ I find mutt to be an excellent balance between power and
              usability.  Internally consistent and well defined context
              help via '?'.  if you (s)aved it, it likely put it in your
              Mail folder.  If you want to know where it's gonna go, use
              an absolute path.
              \_ Why can't it have a console based menu, and a modal dialog
                 for saving file?  If I dedicate my life to memorizing all
                 the details of every unix app. then I won't complain, but
                 I use an app to achieve something else and there are so
                 many things more worthy of memorzing than all the key binding
                 and, relevant in this case, format for reference remote
                 and local paths.  Help from ? is very very poor.  I am not
                 saying that I am incapable of understanind it and the online
                 manual.  I managed to figure things out last time, after
                 spending a lot of time parsing them.  But it seems every once
                 in a while I have to use another feature I have to waste tons
                 of time again.
                 \_ hit ? for your menu.  Then hit "q" to get out of your menu
                    "mode" and hit the key you want.  Sounds like you want that
                    other "tree" program.
                    \_ just to be clear, I mean elm.
                       http://www.sao.nrc.ca/imsb/rcsg/documents/basic/img18.gif
                    \_ sigh.  why can't they organize the commands into
                       trees of pull-down menus?  I hate pine, but people who
                       like the ? thing are just like the shiites who whip
                       themselves bloody to celebrate.
                       \_ The ? thing lets you learn something, then gets
                          out of your way so you can get things done.  I
                          guess I just don't understand what's so difficult
                          about it. --scotsman
                          \_ I am not against learning, and I use console
                             based unix programs all the time.  I once sat
                             down with a emacs manual and "learned" a lot of
                             commands.  Some days later I forgot most of them.
                             I still use emacs, vi etc but I can only remember
                             a key-binding if I use more it than 3 times a day.
                             300 days a year.  For everything else I use the
                             on-screen ?, man, info, or the html/paper manual.
                             Given enough time I can always find the answer
                             but I rarely have that time.  I don't think I am
                             the only one who has neither Alzheimer nor foto-
                             graphic memory for key-bindings that neither has
                             rational basis nor adheres to a uniform guideline.
                             I would rather spend my time, effort or brain cell
                             to learn Sanskrit or argue with psb.  I hate eye
                             candy GUI bloatware but I don't like whistling
                             in morse code either and don't know what deep
                             wisdom lies in key-bindings hidden behind ?.
                             \_ Each person prefers a different set of keybinds
                                therefore, each programmer sets up defaults
                                as they prefer.  You *can* change your keybinds
                                in mutt so they act like pine, e.g.  Rebind the
                                keys so they make sense to you.  I don't know
                                what else to tell you.
                       \_ again, use elm. It's very mutt-like, since mutt was
                          based on it.  That little menu thing with the keys
                          you can set your 'expertise' level and it will go
                          away/reduce itself, etc.  It's on the (o)ptions
                          screen.
                          \_ elm is long dead. no?
                             \_ depends on your definition of "dead"...
                                it may not be y2k compliant, (only thing I've
                                noticed is the year wrong) but it still works
                                fine.  The gremlins haven't eaten the
                                computer, it hasn't started randomly filing
                                my email in /dev/null.
           \_ what's this "user friendly" concept?
              \_ It's a comic about sysadmins and dust bunnies.
        \_ another menu driven text gui mail client victim... use nmh.
2004/2/21-23 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12341 Activity:low
2/21    What's the best tool to convert raw network traffic captured on the
        wire into something useful?  I'm currently reading the unparsed
        output from ngrep, tcpdump and similar tools but I'd like to see that
        turned into the real thing.  For example, I want to see an output log
        that says machine X went to host/port Y/y to grab URL Z for http
        connections.  I want emails going by saved out in mbox or other
        human readable format.  Does such a thing exist?  I started to write
              \- yes, but you have to email me --psb
                 \_ why not posted it on the web?  I was looking for something
                    \- because as a general matter these anon requests are
                       annoying. i can understand for a dumb question or a
                       contentious issue but not in a case like this. i suppose
                       if you are widely disliked on sloda, that might be one
                       reason to ask for help anonymously. --psb
                       \_ maybe some people don't want their name attached
                          with looking for software to read raw network
                          traffic.  the world just isn't as open minded and
                          understanding as you are, partha.
                    like that monitoring LAN network to spot abuses on
                    company's network, mainly to spot p2p client use at the
                    office   --kngharv
                             \- if you want to look for p2p, that is a
                                matter of looking for the protocol. as a
                                general matter compliance issues are easier
                                to deal with because you can do offline rather
                                than realtime detection [offline = run on
                                tracedumps]. of course if you want to use
                                something like kazaa obliterator, then you
                                need to detect in realtime ... or not too
                                lagged batch proc. what is this "web" you
                                speak of. --psb
        my own in perl but then realised I can't be the first person to ever
        need this.  Thanks!
        \_ fantastic GUI utility called Ethereal. Available binaries for
           windows, linux, solaris. source available. I've used it only
           for reading traffic at the packet level, but perhaps if you want
           application level stuff (eg, emails as opposed to SMTP packets
           or whatever) perhaps you could write that yourself since its
           open source.                         - rory
        \_ Etherpeek
        \_ If it doesn't have to be graphical, you might want to consider
           hogwash (snort-based IDS.)  Also, although it's more of a toy
           than a tool, take a look at Etherape.  -John
           \_ use Etherape before.  I find it not as useful as I would like
              to be.  Only thing cool about it is that it color coded traffic
              from different ports.  This feature allow me to spot p2p
              client (most people uses p2p don;t bother with port changes),
              and it is pretty good for detecting infected computer which
              eat up all the bandwidth.
                \_ Like I said, it's sort of a toy, although useful to get
                   an overview of traffic patterns.  What I find really
                   hilarious (almost totally useless as a tool) is driftnet.
2004/2/18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12289 Activity:nil
2/17    Is it possible to have POP3 and/or IMAP only users with
        sendmail without having those users have system accounts?
        Or with them having system accounts that aren't the same so
        that joe@onedomain.com can point to user joe23 and
        joe@anotherdomain.com can point to user joe24??  URLs or other
        pointers greatly appreciated.
        \_ Yes.  Last I checked, sendmail doesn't do POP or IMAP look at
           Courier IMAP or Cyrus IMAP.  Both support mail users with
           non-system accounts.  You'll need to either configure lmtp
           (Cyrus) or use /etc/aliases to add some glue (Courier) -dans
                \_ You should be able to use any imap/pop server that
                   supports PAM or SASL.  Cyrus works very nicely with
                   Cyrus-saslauthd, which can use DB2, ldap, PAM, and
                   pretty much any external auth mechanism.  -John
2004/2/14-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12253 Activity:nil
2/13    I converted to mutt from elm at the suggestion of the divine MOTD
        some years ago.  Will the Omniscient now answer my question again:
        is there a better standard alone mail client that uses the standard
        mail file format for mail folders?
        \_ you *want* the /bin/mail mail format?  really?  what the hell for?
           \_ why do some people like to be spanked or electrocuted?
              go figure.
           \_ It's not just /bin/mail, it is the standard way to store mail
              and used by almost everything except mh, no?  I haven't used
              mail as regular mail client for many years, but I still remember
              how to use it and once in a while when other programs fail or
              somehow are not installed, I can still read my mail.  Do you chop
              off your feet after learning to drive?
              \_ No, actually I use mh because I don't care what format the
                 mail is in.  Once you've used mh, there's no need for any
                 other mail client.
           \_ isnt the op referring to whats commonly known as the "mbox"
              format? Isnt this the standard mail box format used by most
              unix test-based mail clients as well as all the
              Netscape/Mozilla stuff?
              \_ yes, but I don't understand why they would limit themselves
                 to it.  why is that a requirement?  who cares what format
                 your mail is in as long as you can read it?  any unix mailer
                 is going to be convertible if for some strange reason you
                 really need to be in that format.
                 \_ personally, I agree that this is a pretty good way to
                    have your mail stored... easy to back up and archive,
                    and you can always open it w/ another client should
                    you need to.  With all the proprietary formats (Outlook
                    [Express] etc) its easy for everything to get hozed and
                    hard to make backups.
       \_ an email client under Emacs if you like Emacs is a possibility ...
          vm is simpler and OK if you read your mail in one place; for more
          flexible (IMAP) email, gnus is pretty much all-powerful
              used by almost everything except mh, no?
2004/2/13 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12238 Activity:nil
2/12    mutt gurus, how does one escape spaces in mbox name?  I cannot save
        to mailboxes I created with other programs that allow spaces in
        mailbox names.
        \_ "mutt gurus" is an oxymoron.  only "pine gurus" makes less sense.
2004/2/12 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12220 Activity:nil
2/11    Couldn't get soda's smtp server to work.  It complains about
        Relaying denied.  how to authenticate soda's smtp server? i am using
        Mozilla Thunderbird.  thx
        \_ How to speak chinese properly?
           \_ Got milk?
        \_ How to posting on soda motd without looking troll?  Troll to
           getting cookie if hungry smtp server auth?  Coming back not
           speakings chinglish getting answereds!
           \_ is you fat sysadmin?
        \_ if you figure this out, post here.
2004/2/9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12170 Activity:nil
2/8     prompt: mutt
/usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libintl.so.4" not found
        \_ YAY, pine is fuxored too.  I think admin SNAFUS like this and the
           spreading soda relay ban (which apparently root doesn't want to do
           anything about) means that I'll be bringing to an end my use of
           soda for email.  Ah well, its been a nice one guys.
           \_ Spreading soda relay ban?  Yahoo has a fucked up test and has
              blocked much of the world, and their abuse department is nearly
              always unhelpful.  As for spreading, the complaint below ended
              up being a typo.  So unless you have evidence of this, I would
              say you're full of shit.  If you aren't, mail root with the
              evidence.  Don't fucking complain on the motd. --scotsman
              (P.S.  The problem described above is probably something like
              a broken LD_LIBRARY_PATH env variable.  If there was another
              problem it must have since been fixed.  Both work for me.)
              \_ Well, it worked for me yesterday, and it worked for me now.
                 But it didn't when I posted the above.  I guess either my
                 env variables are in a quantum state or someone with root
                 has been tinkering.  Thanks for making it work again.  -- op
           \_ Is there a free alumni email account at cal?
              \ <DEAD>cal.berkeley.edu<DEAD>: free forwarding for life
           \_ they do ok for the salary they get.
2004/2/5 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:12111 Activity:nil
2/5     Some people in my office are complaining about a virus that infects
        their PC when they preview an infected message using the Netscape
        mail client.  They say if you exit the client, it attempts to
        automatically compact the Inbox, fails, and effectively wipes it clean.
        I haven't heard of this, has anyone else?  They say it's not detected
        by Norton AntiVirus yet.  (If I were to guess, I'd say their Inbox
        got corrupted, and it may not be because of a virus.)
2004/2/3-5 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:12092 Activity:nil
2/3     Has anyone seen http://spf.pobox.com?  Sounds interesting.  AOL is testing
        this out.  This'll go a long way to preventing forged domain spams.
        --scotsman
        \_ Doesn't SPF break forwarding?  Aside from that it's an interesting
           idea.  -John
           \_ Yep. Forwarding doesn't work.
        \_ isn't this like from 3 weeks ago on slashdot?
           \_ Hrm.  never noticed.  we've been playing with this since
              the early draft rfc. --scotsman
              \_ linkP?
                 \_ #t
                    \_ why are you so lame? linkP is the same as asking,
                    "Do you have a link?" To answer "Yes" or "#t" is a dickhead
                    smarmy thing to write. of course, the op wrote linkP? which
                    is redundant. you're still a jerk.
                 \_ It's all on the http://spf.pobox.com site.  --scotsman
2004/2/3 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12081 Activity:nil
2/2     FTP question.  I am trying to transfer a 5 gigabytes file to another
        computer (both are PC running Windoze).  Doesn't really matter which
        client I used, after the end of transfering all 5 gigabyte, it said
        something like "450 can't access" and doesn't write the file to the
        FTP site.  I am running Filezilla Server on the other end.  Why such
        error?
        \_ that's not an ftp question, it's a filezilla question. either that
           or ftp doesn't support files that large.
           \_ I am running Filezilla and made sure it has all the access.
              (both computers are in same LAN).
        \_ Is the destination PC using FAT32 or NTFS?  FAT32 limits files
           to 4GiB.
              \_ Props for using Gibibytes.
        \_ Here's a nickle kid, buy yourself a real computer.
           \_ save your nickel, and buy yourself a dictionary.
        \_ why are you ftping from one host to another on the same LAN?  just
           share out the directory and copy the file.
           \_ I never really figured out how to config microsoft network
                \_ Right-click on directory, 'sharing', 'share as',
                   on client PC 'mount network drive',
                   '\\computername\sharename'  Geez.  -John
                \_ there is more to it than that.  There is this thing
                   called "workgroup" thingy.  and I don't know which port
                   or service MS is used to share file.  the entire thing
                   is a lot more mysterious than simply setting up a FTP
                   and let go
                        \_ I'd appreciate it if you'd at least try to be
                           vaguely amusing when pretending to be an ignorant
                           fuckwit on the motd.  -John
        \_ Hey guys, thanks all for the input.  It turned out that none
           of the GUI clients (Filezilla, Internet Explorer)  I used worked
           well.  The text client that came with Windoze actually gotten
           pretty far: it hit the 4GB limit before everything died.  And
           yes, that partition of the Harddrive is FAT32.  Thanks for
           pointing that out for me.  And for your information, Filezilla
           seems to be a relatively stable FTP client, eventhough on my
           P3/384mb machine, it can handle about 1000 files on its queue
           before it start to thrash --OP
           \_ Yeah whatever, next time don't come here with your crap.  You
              can't figure out the mysteries of windows file sharing?  My
              parents managed that much on their own.  Don't come back.
              \_ On behalf of the human race, I am pleased to announce that
                 we're revoking your membership until such time as you can
                 see that someone else pissing in your cornflakes still does
                 not excuse you being an asshole on the motd.
2004/1/28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11978 Activity:very high 66%like:10360
1/28  get a life!
      \_ get a job!!
      \_ Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family,
         Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars,
         compact disc players, and electrical tin openers.
         \_ Damn good movie.
            \_ The novel's even better.
         \_ And some better lyrics.
              \_ !lyrics.  #L
      \_ get a wife!
         \_ That would be worst possible mistake you could make. There
            is no escape, save death, from the living hell that your
            life will be transformed into. You would do far better to
            toss your possessions into the nearest ditch, give your
            assets to a homeless charity or orphanage and then live
            out the remainder of your days under an overpass in the
            middle of the Nevada desert.
            \_ return of Bitter Divorced Guy!
            \_ hear hear!  --Bitter Married Guy
            \_ I think a wife might be ok if you are over 45 and not
               extremely wealthy.
               \_ If you want to spend your declining years in torment.
                  If you really need a woman, get a gf. They are cheaper
                  and can be easily replaced.
            \_ No, please, tell us how you really feel about marriage.
               \_ Imagine going to a dinner where everyone is laughing
                  and having a good time except you. Now imagine that
                  the reason you are not having a good time is that
                  they ripped your heart from your chest and starting
                  eating it in front of your face.
                  \_ I've actually been thinking that this would be a
                     cool tattoo to get, where it looks like your chest
                     cavity has been ripped open and your heart ripped
                     out.
        \_ restored.  -bdg fan
        \_ No way.
           Choose no life. Choose no career. Choose no family. Choose a fucking
           big computer, choose disk arrays the size of washing machines, modem
           racks, CD-ROM writers, and electrical coffee makers. Choose no sleep,
                  \_ ^CD-ROM^DVD^
           high caffeine and mental insurance. Choose no friends. Choose black
           jeans and matching combat boots. Choose chairs for your office in a
           range of fucking fabrics. Choose SMTP and wondering why the fuck you
           are logged on on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting in that swivel
           chair looking at mind-numbing, spirit-crushing web sites, stuffing
           fucking junk food in your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it
           all, pishing your last on some miserable newsgroup, nothing more than
           embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up lusers Gates spawned to
           replace the Computer-literate. Choose your future.
           Choose to SYSADMIN.
           \_ and then get ready to train your Indian replacements before they
              lay you off.
2004/1/24-26 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:11924 Activity:high
1/24    Can someone recommend a good mail client for Windows that nicely
        handles multiple mailboxes, each with its own outbound server (I
        need IMAP + TLS) hopefully besides Outcrook?  Tried Opera, Mozilla,
        Firebird, Pegasus, none of them particularly seem to like multiple
        SMTP servers.  -John
        \_ I use both Mozilla and Thunderbird w/multiple SMTP servers.  They can
           be a little difficult to configure, because the dialog for changing
           server settings doesn't seem to remember more than one change at a
           time, but once I got it all configured I didn't have any problems.
           -emarkp  [formatd, damnit]
                     \_ What was wrong with my formatting?  I have tabs set to
                        8, and I wrap at 80 lines to minimize # of lines in a
                        post. -emarkp
                        \_ you're going past 80. you do all the time.
                           \_ Whatever.  I'll keep an eye on it, but it seems
                              to be working fine for me and my settings haven't
                              changed.  I'll set my wrap at 79 in case your
                              settings are messed up. -emarkp
                              \_ My settings?  It's only your posts.  I've
                                 counted my chars/line with both wc and my
                                 fingers.  No one else goes over as often
                                 as you.  --formatd
           -emarkp
        \_ I use both Mozilla and Thunderbird w/multiple SMTP servers.  They
           can be a little difficult to configure, because the dialog for
           changing server settings doesn't seem to remember more than one
           change at a time, but once I got it all configured I didn't have
        \_ Eudora will do this, and if you are still affiliated with Berkeley
           as a student or staff, you can get it for free.
        \_ The Bat! baby. Let the bats fly again..
           http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat
           any problems.  -emarkp  [formatd, damnit]
                                 fingers.  No one else goes over as often as
                                 you.  --formatd
                                 \_ I'll be sure to turn of tabbing then and
                                    insert spaces only.  Less chance for
                                    problems. -emarkp
           \_ OK thanks that's what I thought should happen.  I's remembering
              them ok, but can't seem to figure out which one to use with
              my two test accounts.  Meantime, postfix/cyrus-saslauthd on
              FreeBSD is giving me grief, so I'll have to fix that first.
              Thanks.  -John
           \_ speaking of which, how to set up SMTP / IMAP connect to Soda?
        \_ Eudora will do this, and if you are still affiliated with Berkeley
           as a student or staff, you can get it for free.
        \_ The Bat! baby. Let the bats fly again..
           http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat
2004/1/15-16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11782 Activity:nil
1/14    I have multiple email account, and now I use IMAP/POP3 fetch them
        to my local harddrive (except my CSUA shell account).  That is not
        hard.  My question now is, when I reply to these email account,
        I want to make them *THINK* that the email is replying from the
        account which I recieved them from.  How to do that?  can
        I achieve this by install an email server + fetchmail ?
        thanks
        \_ Um, how convincing does it need to be?  Setting your From:
           header should be sufficient for casual observers.  Most mail
           clients let you do this.  Some, e.g. mutt, can automatically
           set the from header based on the mail you are replying to.
           \_ Mutt?  Get off the motd, mutt-whore!  You were doing well until
              you started pushing your own personal brand of mail client
              poison.  Why didn't you say, "Some, e.g. mh, can automatically"
              instead of mutt, huh?  This is clearly anti-mh discrimination
              and is an indignity up with which I will not put!
           \_ My current arrangement is download all my emails (yahoo, hotmail
              etc) to Thunderbird, and when I reply, I uses my New York
              account's SMTP server.  Because of the nature of emails are
              different from account to account, I would like to keep them
              (appearently) seperate.  Yes, manually changing the "From"
              header is suffice, but the header need to be changed based
              upon where the person has send the email to, instead of who
              the person is.  I thought would be a common problem among
              Sodian geeks, and wondering if any of you has any solution to
              this problem.     --OP
              \_ so what, one is your cia account, one is your fsb
                 account, one is your child porn account, or what? why is
                 it so imperative that the headers not reveal what smtp host
                 you're using?
2004/1/6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:11693 Activity:nil
1/6     I wanna post to newsgroups but not with my real email address
        due to spam. What are some ways to get around it? Thanks.
        \_ hack your nntp client!
        \_ why are you using a client that uses your real email?  go sign
           up for a real usenet service if you care or use a bogus spam-only
           email address.
2003/12/22-23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11563 Activity:high
12/22   I have Linux running from my PC.  Before today, I'd never
        tried to send mail directly from my PC to the outside world.
        While connected to the internet, using pine, I sent out a
        couple messages to my yahoo account as a test.  They didn't
        go through.  They didn't bounce either.
        \_ The pain..  The pain...   Are you running sendmail?  postfix?
           What's your ISP?  Yahoo blocks many blocks of IPs for their
           anti-spam measures.  Does your ISP have an SMTP server you can
           use?  Have you checked that you can connect to any of yahoo's
           SMTP servers.  As you mentioned pine, I'm assuming most of the
           answers are "no" or "i don't know".  Just go back to windows.
        \_If you can send email from windows, you can do it from Linux.
          There isn't a reason why Linux can't use the same SMTP server
          as your Windows setup. Try using a different client, i.e. Netscape/
          Mozilla email. I haven't setup pine in a while, but if you can do
          it through something that is akin to a windows client then you are
          that much closer to resolving your issue.
        \_ just use Mozilla Thunderbird.  Best mail client.
        \_ pine?  is this a troll?
2003/12/12-13 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11432 Activity:nil 73%like:11428
12/12   My sendmail question was deleted by an evil reactionary.  Take pity
        on me and Answer it:  Is there a way to get sendmail to treat:
        "config error: mail loops back to me" the same way it does "host not
        available" type errors  (i.e. try again periodically for 3 days
        or whatever it does?)  How?   Thanks.
        \_ edit src/usersmtp.c, around line 217
2003/12/12 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11431 Activity:nil
12/11   you delete the politics, i delete the sendmail. fuck you.
        \_ Dude, *I* didn't delete the politics. (Hell, i'm to blame for a
           good chunck of the politics). -sendmail question asker.
           (oh, and grow up a little, K? )
           \_ I guessed that, and I'm sorry.  However politics threads
              are fun and interesting, and there has to be a way to punish
              those who want them eliminated.  I believe that your average
              censor is a nerd who wants to see the whole motd be a series
              of questions and answers about sendmail, and if we send the
              message that the motd either has freedom or gets killed,
              eventually they'll have to give up.  I think this has worked
              in the past.
                \_ you're an idiot.
2003/12/12 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11428 Activity:nil 73%like:11432
12/11   Sendmail Gurus is there a way to tell sendmail to treat:
        "config error: mail loops back to me" the same way it
        does 554 errors  (i.e. try again for periodically for 3
        days or whatever it does?)  How?   Thanks.
2003/12/12-13 [Computer/SW/Editors, Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:11423 Activity:nil
12/11   Does anyone know of a free SFTP client for MacOS 9? --dim
        \_ http://versiontracker.com
2003/12/5-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11322 Activity:nil
12/5    Sendmail question.  I have a Sun which is MXed to another machine
        so I made sendmail not listen on port 25.  But when I try to send
        mail from that machine, when I do a verbose, it tries to connect
        to port 25 on the local machine to send the mail.  What do I need
        to do?  Does someone have a sendmail.cf file I can look at?
        This is the latest sendmail version.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
        \_ MSP mode.
           \- on a "recent solaris/senmail 8.12" change /etc/mail/submit.cf
              D{MTAHost}[127.0.0.1] to point to the PTR or [A] of your
              relay machine ... assuming you dont have m4 files. --psb
2003/12/5 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11319 Activity:nil
12/4    http://www.hookonline.org/resources/ftr_hh.htm
        \_ Not work safe, thank you very much.  Now the admins think I'm
           gay.
           \_ GAY PANIC!
           \_ What exactly about that site assumes you're gay?  It's about
              male prostitutes.  They can serve male or female.
              \_ Hell, I'm still working on why it's not work safe.
              \_ GAY PANIC!
2003/11/28-12/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11259 Activity:nil
11/28   Anyone have a good link on how to get sendmail to drop user unknown
        bounces to nonexistent addresses (i.e. Joe Jobs)? -John
        \_ procmail
           \_ procmail is not sendmail, you twit.
           \_ I run postfix, with which it's simple.  This is for a
              colleague.  Thanks for the constructive info.  -John
2003/11/26-28 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:11250 Activity:nil
11/26   I forward mail for some people (from virtusertable) using sendmail.
        However, it results in a bunch of bounced mails from ISPs that bounce
        spam.  I don't want my postmaster account to get these bounces,
        what should i do?
        \_ procmail?
            \_ dude, that's like hard -n- stuff.
        \_ redirect postmaster to /dev/null.  who reads postmaster anymore?
            \_ I was doing that actually, but at some point my ISP dropped my
                PTR record and i didn't find out about it for a while.
                During that time it resulted in bounced mails from places that
                didn't like that i didn't have one. :(  I need to know if I'm
                getting blacklisted for some reason i can fix, but I don't
                want to have to sift through all the bounced spam :(  Looks
                like procmail is the answer, but I don't relish diving in.
2003/11/21-22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:11176 Activity:nil
11/19   I remember someone on here saying that pine is a crappy mail
        program. What mail program would you guys recomend?
                -joesal
        \_ if you are female, nmh
                \_ Female?  What's that have to do with it?
                        \_ It has *everything* to do with it.
                          \_ Such as?
                             \_ nothing.  he's being random.
                \_Sorry but i am male. Now whats a good mail program?
        \_ why does someone remove mh+procmail responses? too political? hah!
           you all fear the superior mail handling system!
                  \_ so you really want a good male program...  elm/mh/mh-e
                     \_ he said he wanted a good mail program.  there are no
                        good male programs here.
                        \_ What about 'man'?
                           \_ as if anyone uses that.
        \_ If you're still overcoming pine withdrawal, try mutt.  If you're
           ready to move onto something smaller and simpler and you're
           used to vi (unlikely if you used pine), then try elm.  It's
           quite good once configured properly, and the version on soda
           has all the exciting patches to make it do mime and pgp shit
           --dbushong
           \_ this is absurd.  mutt is 500K--that's tiny these days.
              and it works better and is easier to use than elm.  -tom
              \_ mh is effectively zero. it works better and is more powerful
                 than mutt.
              \_ Pfft.  How much of this 500K is WORTHLESS CURSOR POSITION
                 CODE AND HELPSCREENS!?
           \_ What if I prefer VIM -- is there an elm-improved?
              \_ just setenv EDITOR to whatever is right ofor you.
                 \_ That's not what I mean.  I mean that the elm interface
                    is a bit clunky, and I was wondering if there was a
                    program like elm, but with a slightly better interface.
                    \_ yes.  It's called mutt.  -tom
              \_ then you obviously havent fully explored the power of ex/ed
                \_ /bin/cat!!!
                   \_ Not every female thinks that cat is a good substitute for
                      mail.
                      \_ what about a male cat?
                         \_ It's called mcat
                            \_ thats a different sort of test.
              \_ Then there is no hope for you.
                 \_ hope: Command not found.   Hmm, yeah you're right.
        \_ and if you're ready to truly take charge of your mail handling and
           you can rtfm, you want mh+procmail.
2003/10/29-30 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10842 Activity:high
10/29   I am a dumbass pine user.  my inbox has grown to 2000 messages, and I
        need to use some simple program to sort all the messages into folders
        by sender, then start using a program that will let me sort messages
        into different folders and has more power, but is not just a command
        line program like mail.  any reccomendations? I'm tired of being a
        dumbass and am willing to read whatever docs i need to, but i don't
        want to have to switch again.  thanks.
        \_ Try mutt.  It has pattern matching tagging and the like.
           % mutt -f mailspool
           Tpattern (Tag all messages matching "pattern")
           ;s (Save all tagged messages to specified folder)
           ;d (delete all tagged messages)
           Etc..
           \_ thanks!
        \_ Use mh!
           \_ he's using pine.  what makes you think he'll be able to deal
              with non-mbox utils?
              \_ he's willing to read whatever docs he needs to do to handle
              \_ he's willing to read whatever docs he needs to handle
                 his mail the best way possible.  if you're lazy then sure
                 go ahead and use some toy.  if you want to take total and
                 final control over your email forever, procmail and mh are
                 the way to go.  mutt users think pine users are morons for
                 using a different mail toy.  mh users understand that pine
           \_ It can also hog up soda's CPU if you misconfigure it.
              \_ misconfigure how?  What is the pitfall to avoid here?
                 i don't read my mail on soda, so it'll actually be
                 someone else's CPU, but i don't want to be a dick
                 there either.
                \_ Ya, several months back some pine user switched to mutt
                   and his mutt was using like 99% CPU.
                 users are just mh users who haven't read the docs yet.
        \_ If you enable aggregate select in pine, then you can do what
           you want.
           ; (aggregate select)
           t (by text)
           f (from)
           <enter the sender>
           a (apply)
           s (save to)
2003/10/29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10838 Activity:nil
10/28   My SpamBayes Outlook plugin doesn't seem to do its job anymore.  All
        the Spam that it used to catch floods my inbox now.  I even uninstalled
        and installed the latest version, but it still it does nothing.  I
        have to use Outlook at work.  Anybody else have this problem?  Any
        suggestions for a fix?  I noticed error messages about missing libraries,
        but I'm not sure if that's related.  Please help.  TIA.
        \_ Shit, as a matter of fact, none of my Outlook rules work.  Any ideas?
           -op
           \_ Here's an idea. Ditch outlook, use mozilla.
              \_ What a predictable, useless, witless post. -!op
                 \_ I was going to say that but you beat me to it so I'll
                    simply agree.  OP: it's possible your outlook install has
                    been corrupted.  Does your IT Dept do any sort of auto
                    patching over the net?  Maybe there's a virus/worm/spyware/
                    whatever malware on your box that broke it?  The missing
                    libraries line is suspicious.  Which libraries?
              \_ While his response is not very productive, he has a valid
                 point which only hackers understood.  To translate that to
                 real world language, he is really saying:
                 "You may think Outlook is easy to use, but when it fails,
                 it can get really ugly and there isn't a thing any hacker
                 can do to save you from the misery.  You could reinstall
                 outlook (the only feasible way to fix any unknown problem
                 in MS product), or you can try to use some other client
                 which is more standard-complient, such as Mozilla.
                 Being standard complient means you can do things such as
                 backing up your email files a lot easier.
                 \_ Did you and the other guy miss the part where he said he's
                    at work and *cant* use another client?  And please no one
                    bother with the "your workplace sucks, find another job"
                    thing.  Wrong financial era to quit a job over a mail gui.
                    \_ no, Motd censor got rid of it.  If he wants to go for
                        the official route, he wouldn't of asked help on
                        MOTD at first place; he would of asked his company's
                        System Admin to fix it.  Further, it is not his job
                        to install spam filter.  It should of done it at the
                        server level.
                        \_ Bzzt.  Have you ever tried to run server level
                           spam filtering for a company of any decent size?
                           This is an immense problem, and requires a massive
                           amount of man-hours even with the plethora of
                           available methods.  Email/spam blocking must be
                           user specific and user responsible (at least for
                           now). --scotsman
                        Like many of us, we've taken email matter in our
                        own hands.  and we are offering our advice of using
                        some standard, RFC complient email client instead of
                        MS solution. Yes, typical FreeBSD Sodians have their
                        share of bias, but in the case of email client,
                        Microsoft really screwed up.
                        My company uses Outlook as well.  But i use
                        Thunderbird and pop3/imap to connect to my company's
                        server.  I don't have the calendar option, but I can
                        live with that. I sleeps better when i know where
                        is the email archive, and knowing that just about
                        anything can open it.

                 \_ Agreed.  Using Outlook comes at a price, and you're paying
                    it now.  If you have an IT guy, ask him if there are
                    alternatives.  Tell him you're sick of this.  If you don't,
                    then look into setting up an IMAP client that can talk to
                    Outlook, and only use Outlook for Calendaring.  Your mail
                    will be easier to backup, more easily handled, and Soda will
                    love you.
        \_ Here's a nickel kid. Get yerself a real computer.
           \_ USE LINUX!  RIDE BIKE!  LIGHT CANDLE!
2003/10/24-25 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:10768 Activity:nil
10/24   Are there any pitfalls involved in using sendmsg/recvmsg over
        send/recv?  I finally got my problems solved with basic sockets,
        and I'm looking for a good way to say "these bytes are msg1,
        these are msg2" etc.  Thanks
        \_ These are two separate issues.  (1) man sendmsg.  (2) Since
           TCP is byte-stream oriented, you will need to introduce some
           message delimiting mechanism.  Common ways are LF (like SMTP,
           POP3, BGP) and having predictable message lengths
           (e.g., constant for all messages, having an early size field
           which indicates the size of the message, having an early type
           field which you associate with a given size, etc.).
           http://tangentsoft.net/wskfaq/articles/effective-tcp.html
           \_ Thanks for the link.  I've been using a length-header so
              far, but I was thinking that perhaps MSG_EOR would be a
              better solution.  I can't use the delimiter option b/c the
              module must also handle binary data, and I have no
              guarantees on length either.  I guess I'll stick w/ what
              works.
              \_ You can come up with a prefix code for your
                 messages.  This can be a good idea for reasons other than
                 getting rid of delimiters (since a good prefix code will
                 compress what you send over the wire). -- ilyas
                 \_ I thought you had to have a known alphabet to do that.
                    And the binary data is totally unknown.
                    \_ If it's binary data, the alphabet is {0, 1},
                       by definition. -- ilyas
                        \_ kinda hard to compress 1 & 0, isn't it?
                           \_ I think you are unclear on the concept.  Files
                              you compress with gzip are 1s and 0s, and they
                              compress just fine.  -- ilyas
                              \_ I understand the concept, but if you can't
                                 predict the expected distribution of your
                                 data (even at the byte level) you probably
                                 won't achieve much compression-- yes, I'll
                                 probably get some compression just by using
                                 a standard english distribution, but not
                                 enough to make it worthwhile.  You are
                                 correct in the technical sense, but it's not
                                 enough to break what works right now.
                                 \_ Sure you will.  It's what universal source
                                    coding is all about.  Why do you think it
                                    works on files, where we can't predict
                                    the distribution either?  At any rate, the
                                    original point of using a prefix code in
                                    your case was to get rid of delimiters.
                                    The compression (which will occur to
                                    entropy in the limit, trust me) is just a
                                    pleasant side effect.  -- ilyas
2003/10/19-20 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10697 Activity:nil
10/18   does my csua email work with a pop client like Outlook, or Yahoo mail?
        \_ sure, why not.
        \_ only pop3 over SSL.  Port 995
           \_ or if you set up an ssh tunnel from your computer to soda, and
              point your mail client at localhost.
2003/10/10-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10584 Activity:nil
10/10   Sendmail gurus please help,
        I am getting duplicate mails.  In my maillog I get entries like this:
        stat=Deferred: prog mailer (/usr/sbin/smrsh) exited with EX_TEMPFAIL
        This is on rehat 7.2 (linux). It tries again after some minutes and
        after one or two tries finally stat=sent.  But in reality i get both
        (or all three) emails!  What should i do to fix this?
        \_ This sometimes happens with mailing list mail, where one address
           on the list is over quota or fails due to low disk space; the
           mailer doesn't report the right status, and people get duplicates.
           Upgrade your sendmail and check for quota/disk problems.  -tom
        \_ This probably isn't your problem but sendmail will also report
           ex_tempfail if directory permissions are wrong in the spool.
2003/10/9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10543 Activity:nil
10/8    I emailed my friend to her yahoo account and I got the following:
Reporting-MTA: dns; http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:15:21 -0700 (PDT)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; XXXXX@yahoo.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 Mail from 128.32.112.233 not allowed - VS99-IP1
deferred - see http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-02.html (#5.7.1)
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:15:21 -0700 (PDT)

        Please don't tell me soda is on the open-relay list.  How to fix this
        problem?
        \_ Yahoo has (apparently inadvertantly) blocked large swaths of the
           net because of a broken open relay test.  They even have a large
           number of their own servers listed.  Sigh.  --scotsman
            \_ Stanfurd is also blocked according to the motd of a machine I
               have an account on.
        \_ Soda is not currently on any of the blacklists at http://rbls.org, and
           (according to pxytest and http://www.abuse.net/relay.html is not running
           any open proxies or open relays.  I've mailed yahoo; hopefully it
           will be fixed soon.  --mconst
           \_ How will they get the mail?
        \_ yeah, this sucks.  What's going on?
        \_ me 2.  Has someone mailed root?
2003/9/22 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:29937 Activity:nil
9/20    I almost *NEVER* use pop/IMAP for email.  I normally just simply log
        into my shell account and check email there like what I have always
        done for the past 12-13 years.   Now, for certain things, it would
        be convinient for me to actually have a POP/IMAP client on my windoze
        machine.  My question for you uber nerds out there,
        what are the most popular open-source POP/IMAP client for windoze?
        Mind you, that I would like to run spamassassin and other email
        categorizing filter in between.   Thanks in advance
                                -- lesser nerd
        \_ Mozilla seems to be ok.
                \_ mozilla thunderbird you mean
                \_ Ditto  -John
        \_ why would you ask an uber nerd about "windoze" clients? you have
           thus revealed yourself as a lesser lesser nerd.
           \_ because lesser nerd couldn't find a cool job that uses
                UNIX box at work.       -lesser, but comfortable nerd
           \_ Uber nerds don't care what OS is in front of them as long as it
              supports multiple simultaneous ssh clients.  Uber nerds don't
              use the desktop for anything but an expensive terminal.  GUIs
              are for girls and grandmothers.
        \_ Use Outlook!  -Greater Stud
        \_ Use cell phone!  -Greater Stud+
        \_ outlook is by far the most fully featured client. sure it has
           its problems, but I've never looked back.
                             \_ even if you did, you still couldn't find your
                                ass with both hands.
2003/9/17-20 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:10232 Activity:nil
9/16    For those of your who are running sendmail 8.12.9 there is
        a new exploit:
        http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/337839/2003-09-14/2003-09-20/0
        Patch for 8.12.9: http://www.sendmail.org/parse8.359.2.8.html
        Version 8.12.10:  http://www.sendmail.org/8.12.10.html
        \_ I'm going to just stop using email, stop logging in, stop using a
           browser, and go back to ftp, gopher, and telnet when it was safe
           to be on the net.  What's the last gopher or telnet exploit you've
           heard of?
           \_ tcpdump
              \_ I'm not on your network.  I'm switching to telnet for
                 everything.  Anyway, no one is going to be looking for the
                 clear text wheat among the crypto chaff so I'm safe.
                 \_ tcpdump tcp port telnet
                    If all of your systems are on the same switch and
                    vlan you are probably okay, otherwise I'd be careful.
                    BTW, its not like telnetd and inetd (or xinetd) are
                    exploit free.
        \_ Arrr!
           \_ Avast!
2003/9/6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/P2P, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:10100 Activity:nil
9/5     What's the best p2p client to use nowadays (for music)? I liked
        soulseek but it stopped working. I'd really prefer spyware-free.
        \_ telnet to port 80.
2003/8/29-30 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW/Memory] UID:10012 Activity:nil
8/29    Pine core dumped on me, saying memory full.  /proc and /kern are full.
        \_ Do we care?
        \_ pine eats memory by making two copies of your mail spool in memory.
           Get rid of your extra old mail and it will stop filling up memory.
           \_ Better yet, get rid of pine.
              \_ get rid of both!
                 \_ best answer so far.
2003/8/26-27 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:29478 Activity:kinda low
8/26    The small company I work for would like to set up IMAP and POP over
        SSL, and SMTP (with AUTH) over SSL for relaying.  Anyone have any
        recommendations?  I'm suggesting using qmail with a bunch of user-
        contributes patches.
        \_ It's not too difficult to do that with sendmail.  I'm a software
           engineer playing sys admin for my startup and I figured it out.
        \_ If you're on FreeBSD:
           # portinstall -R imap-uw
           # portinstall -R stunnel
           # portinstall -R qpopper (or whatever)
           # portinstall -R cyrus-sasl
           # vi /etc/make.conf; include the relevant lines commented out in
             /etc/defaults/make.conf relating to sendmail auth stuff
           # rebuild sendmail... it's in /usr/src somewhere... or just
             buildworld
           \_ Thanks a bunch.  I'll forward the two replies on. -op
2003/8/21 [Health/Disease/General, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:29425 Activity:very high
8/20    why the hell is it so hard for people to understand the concept of
        not opening random attatchments to emails?  if some gangs of kids
        ran around and spraypainted the word "go" on all the stopsigns
        would worldwide car traffic be brought to a standstill by these
        same fucking idiots?
        \_ "WET PAINT, DO NOT TOUCH".  -John
        \_ yes, if they did a great graphic artists job and you can't
           see red at all (ie: all green with white GO letters)
        \_ picking out an attachment w/ a virus is like picking an Iraqi who
           is a terrorist
        \_ that's not a good analogy. try this one: if you got a mysterious
           but not too threatening looking envelope in the mail, would you
           open it?
           \_ a better analogy: if someone sent you a mysterious looking box
              that had some wires poking out, an odd scent, oily spots
              leaking through the paper, no return address and a small plume
              of smoke was rising from one corner, would you open it?
              \_ haha, right. if i sent you a letter that said I'M GOING
                 TO KILL YOU written in something that looks like blood,
                 would you open it? i bet you would.
                 \_ No, I'd bring it to the cops for forensic analysis.
           \_ It's not a matter of "opening the letter". It's like, if someone
              sent you a letter containing a hypodermic needle, would you
              go ahead and inject it into your bloodstream? Now what I don't
              understand is, why call it a virus? These things are just
              programs people run. Trojans.
              \_ Because the press has to make it easy on the public.  Having
                 viruses, worms, and trojans just confuses people.  Any
                 Trojans sounds like condoms anyway.  They don't want to
                 tell the public to not use Trojans.  And also the Press is
                 stupid as well and mostly doesn't know better either.
        \_ Funny story: I'm not stupid.  I know the attachment thing, and
           I'm good about it with pine on soda-- not that it matters, but
           still.  But at work, where Outlook is forced on me, I open
           attachments with wild abandon.  I just don't care, it's easy,
           and as a stooge I assume that other people take care of my
           security.  My code is backed up on a server regularly, so I don't
           worry much about losing work.  Hell, I wouldn't mind having my
           machine hosed, just so I could upgrade it a bit.
           \_ i open attachments on mutt with wild abandon. the difference
              is mutt doesn't treat the attachment as an executable.
              \_ "Gay Abandon."
           \_ That's a funny story?  Stay off stage.
           \_ I used to fire people like you.
              \_ And then the boom became the dotbomb and you're no longer a
                 Vice President of Geek Things and now flip burgers and change
                 tapes.  Thanks for sharing.
        \_ Don't you miss the days of the "Good Times" hoax, when you couldn't
           get a virus by reading email?  Leave it to Microsoft to make the
           hoax a reality.
           \_ NO CARRI{{|{{{~
        \_ Why do they keep sending spam? because someone responds to it.
2003/8/18 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW] UID:29378 Activity:nil
8/17    My company uses Micro$oft exchange server.  Based upon its
        functionality, it seems to be more than a simple mail server, as it
        got scheduling, and other functionalities which Outlook depend upon.
        Well... I hate outlook.  Is there any other open source alternative
        that contains most of the Outlook's functionalities? thanks
                        -kngharv
2003/8/3-5 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:29227 Activity:kinda low
8/3     I would have sworn that hostnames added to sendmail's local-host-names
        file just started working.  But now I am finding that i have to
        restart sendmail when i add one.  Anyone know if i am just imaginingfin
        my previous lack of a need to restart?  Or, is there some setting or
        something I can do to make it work short of restarting?
        \_ If you use a hashtable, it will recognize them when that table is
           rebuilt with changes, but for a flat file, it won't reload until
           you restart.
            \_ # makemap hash local-host-names < local-host-names
               makemap: local-host-names: line 2: no RHS for LHS
                :(
2003/7/7-8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28942 Activity:very high
7/6     Does soda do any sort of smtp auth?  It seems almost everyone auths
        smtp by ip address which is really annoying if I have a computer that
        switches networks all the time.  I just want to be able to send out
        mail damnit!
        \_ I don't know about smtp auth on soda. Why not login via SSH
           and run one of soda's mail clients? (pine, mutt, etc)
           \_ because I've recently realzied that non ascii text mail clients
              are actually a neet thing.  Ascii text is useful, but when you
              have the ability to do more, well, it is cool.  I'm slowly
              realizing that there is no reason mail needs to be stuck in
              in the 80s anymore.
              \_ Neet?  What is so neet that us ancient text only losers are
                 missing out on?  Which neet GUI are you using?  I know of
                 a neet thing text mailers do!  They work on soda.  Neet!
              \_ text-based programs seem to always work, they don't get
                 viruses, spammers don't know you've open their mail,
                 and you can get your mail from anywhere, on any computer
                 and you never have to say, "oh, I left that email on my
                 other computer." maybe you'll rediscover that email is
                 a text-based medium that lends its self well to text.
                 You're not limited to ASCII, UTF-8 is pretty darn rad.
                 \_ 1) Just because outlook is a piece of crap doesn't
                       mean all graphical mail clients are.
                       And for the spammers putting images, my client
                       let's me say "for anyone but the poeple in my
                       address book don't dl anything when reading mail
                       unless I tell you to later".
                    2) Email doesn't have to be a text only medium now.
                       Having the ability to inline an image in text is
                       great.  Inlining links makes life a lot nicer.
                       Hell there is a reason we use html not gopher.
                    3) And hey, just being able to bold, or use italics,
                       or even change fonts, is really nice.
                       \_ Great, as long as your client also sends plain
                          text as well. Since not everybody likes reading HTML.
                          \_ this I do agree with.  the client should send
                             mail as plain text unless I say otherwise.
                             My client does this.  As I said, outlook is ass
                             but that doesn't mean that all html mailers
                             are ass.
                                \_ Your mail client should send plain text
                                   as well, whenever you send HTML email.
                                   Some people have old clients that cannot
                                   display HTML. I am not one of these
                                   people, but sending them HTML is a
                                   really bad idea. ever heard of
                                   accessibility?
                          \_ mutt displays HTML perfectly reasonably.
                    4) IMAP lets me keep my mail on a server, so if I need
                       to I CAN read my mail anywhere, but if I'm at my
                       computer I get the other benefits.
                       \_ Plenty of text clients speak IMAP just fine.
                        \_ I didn't mean to say they didn't.  I just ment that
                           with IMAP I still have the advantage of being
                           able to keep my email on the server and reading
                           it jsut by sshing in and viewing it as text.
                    Really, it sounds like you fear change for fearing change's
                    sake.  If all I used my mail for was bug tracking and
                    customer service I'd agree, I wouldn't want all that
                    extra crap, but as a way to communicate with friends,
                    the ability to do more with email is quite a boon.
                    \_ Uh, not quite. I used GUI email and switched back
                       because I prefer it. text is simpler and more efficient.
                    \_ I'm so glad you're taking advantage of the New Media
                       Email!  Without people like you who would we send our
                       bloated 20 meg mails to?  And thank god we can now
                       cHaNGe fONtS and have colors!  You RoCK!  Do you run
                       your unnamed GUI on LINUX?  LINUX RoCKs!
                       \_ nope.  A mac.  And I don't send 20 meg emails, maybe
                          20k.
                 \_ http://mail2web.com lets you get your email from anywhere
                    so long as your ISP gives you IMAP or POP access.
                    It's a great service.
                    \_ he said send, not read
        \_ since you're using ssh to get to soda in the first place
           open up a tunnel and forward your smtp port to soda's smtp
           port.  set your mailer to hit localhost
           \_ cool idea.  I'll see if it works.  Too bad that means I need
              to run ssh as root then.
              \_ what for?
                \_ smtp is on a port < 1024
                   \_ If you're running this from *nix, it's trivial to change
                      just about any client to use a different (read >1024)
                      port for sending smtp.  If you're running from windows,
                      you're probably running as "root" already.
                        \_ osx, dunno if I can.
                           \_ osx has ssh. what mail client are you using?
                              By the way, this is exactly why I use the
                              mail client on the soda. less hassle.
        \_ Or you could send outgoing mail through the SMTP server of your ISP.
           \_ What for?
                \_ nevermind, it wouldn't work if the op is switching networks.
2003/7/1-2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28887 Activity:moderate
7/1     Does anyone use any SMTP antivirus scanning software for unix/linux?
        I'm looking at Sophos, McAfee, etc. Symantec seems to have the worst
        solution.
        \_ Using Sophos.  Not to shabby.  They stay on top of new viruses
           pretty damn well, and its resource footprint is quite small.
           Only thing is you must restart to load updates, which is a touch
           obnoxious. --scotsman
        \_ My group uses TrendMicro's VirusWall via sendmail milters.
           If you use sendmail, try to get something that works as a
           milter instead of as a stripped down SMTP daemon. --Jon
        \_ I've used TrendMicro.  It was the least bad.  They all pretty much
           suck.  Fortunately today most viruses are still of the linked .exe
           sort, so purging those will get 99% of them.
2003/7/1-2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28882 Activity:low
7/1     With outgoing SMTP, does the "Date:" field get set by the
        client machine's clock or the SMTP server's clock? THanks.
        \_ Geeze, just try it out on 2 machines with different clocks if you
           can'tr google it.
           can't google it.
           \_ I already did. The server set the time on one of them, and
              on another the client did. It depends on the client.
        \_ client machine.
2003/7/1 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28874 Activity:insanely high
6/30    related to the friendster thread below.  Do most of you even have time
        to 'try new stuff on the web'?  When I was a student I had time to
        screw around and surf all day.  After graduating and getting a job
        and getting married, I don't have time for that.  My web surfing
        consists entirely of a few sites like yahoo and google and some
        technical web sites like http://ietf.org or financial info like irs.gov.
        Even then I'm looking for specific info.  I don't randomly surf.  I
        stop as soon as I find the info I need.  Anybody else in the same
        boat?
        \_ Occasionally while taking a break or eating at my desk or waiting
           for a client to get back to me (when I'm at their office with
           nothing else to do.)  Not for hours on end, though.  -John
        \_ yet another reason marriage is for suckers
           \_ if you think randomly surfing the web is better than having a
              life, you're either very very young or I pity you. --done both
                \_ having a life != being married
                   \_ randomly surfing web == not having life
                      being married == having life for those with real marriage
        \_ Just don't be so PW. My wife expects me to spend an hour or
           two online a night. Beats sitting in front of the TV set.
        \_ Try friendster and you will learn.  Bye bye marriage and job
           sucka!!! You're HOOKED.  h0oK3t!
           \_ yeah, right after I get one more everquest level.
        \_ it makes it easier to set up extramarital affairs.
           but yeah, after marriage, you pretty much disappear.
           i think they call it "growing up". -sl
        \_ I see webbrowsing as roughly equal to reading magazines.
           Do you read Time/Life/NewsWeek/Harpers/Barrons/Economist/etc?
           People/Cosmo/Red's Digest/SciAm/Nature/Science/etc?
           \_ science, nature, sciam and economist are available online,
              and the other things you named are fucking trash.
              \_ The Economist and Barrons are trash?  Fucking trash?  ????
                 You must have a really amazing reading list.
                 \_ maybe you should add the motd to your reading list before
                    posting.  I did not include the Economist in the
                    "fucking trash" list.
           \_ I beg to differ.  Web surfing is highly personal and
              individual.  Reading a magazine can be a social event.  I can
              easily show my wife some interesting article when she's sitting
              next to me on the couch.  Can't do that with computers.  And
              not easily with a laptop also.  Plus with a magazine or book
              I can rest my head on my wife's lap while reading (or vice
              versa). It's a lot more fun reading while you stroke your wife's
              hair.  ;-)
              \_ though I am loth to respond to idiot trolls, let me make the
                 point that our definition of what is "social" changes with
                 technology.  When the telephone first was introduced, luddites
                 had the same idea, that somehow you weren't socially
                 interacting if you couldn't see the other person.  Most
                 of the world has gotten over that by now.  Email and other
                 electronic communications are just another type of social
                 interaction, with different parameters.  While you can't
                 "show your wife" a web page you're looking at, you can
                 mail her a URL.  -tom
                 \_ Every day I wake up and recite a long prayer thanking
                    God I don't work with Tom.
                 \_ Your redefining "troll" to mean "anything I disagree with"
                    is like the NOW bimbos defining sex in marriage as rape.
                    You make the term meaningless.
              \_ Yeah I love stroking your wife's hair while reading, too.
2003/6/23-24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28817 Activity:kinda low
6/23    Sendmail gurus: Is there a way to use a different character for
        user+detail?  some broken mailers do not accept "+" in the
        address.
        \_ You'd have to put in your own rewrite rule for this.  It shouldn't
           be terribly hard, though.
           \_ Can I just replace " + " with " . " in sendmail.cf?  Or will
              that break something?
              \_ It would be easier to do some sort of catchall virtuser thing
                 to do that. like "user.*@foo.org username+%2@foo.org"
2003/6/10 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:28688 Activity:high
6/9     is anyone using the following SSH client?  Is it any good?
                ssh windows client
                version: Aug 4 1998 (32)
                by: Cedomir Igaly, 1995/1998
                Revision: 2.100
        \_ If you're just looking for a recommendation, either SecureCRT
           or TeraTerm Pro have worked well for me.
        \_ Agree with the above, or putty (simply because it's the first google
           hit on a search for putty, and is a single executable of about 500k.
           i call it my tissue paper ssh client) --scotsman
        \_ I use the free non-commercial ssh client from http://ssh.com. Works fine
           and allows for easy file transfers.
           \_ It also has the advantage of recognizing urls and letting you
              click on them, which i like since i follow every link posted
              on CSUA.  It has the disadvantage of being very bugy.
              \_ buggs ar eprobabyl frm cdoing typos, eh?
        \_ PuTTY works very nicely:
           http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty
           \_ Indeeed, I switched from TTerm to putty and haven't looked back
              (the single executable/no install is very nice).  It does X
              tunnelling which IIRC TT doesn't.
              \_ Actually, TT tunnelling is pretty good, and does X fine.
                 \_ Yup, and teraterm cut/paste is much more friendly.  Also
                    its UI is much leaner, which I prefer.  TeraTerm will also
                    do serial connections, which IIRC putty does not.
                 \_ Does TT do protocol 2 yet?
                    \_ Not the last time I checked.  That's the *only* reason
                       to use putty.
        \_ cygwin
        \_ SecureCRT, hands down! Putty is not bad, but SecureCRT has
           almost everything you ever wanted in a telnet client. Ultra
           robust, highly customizable.
2003/6/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28669 Activity:insanely high
6/8     Can anyone recommend a better email client?  I've been using
        Pine and I'd really like more functionality such as sorting of
        emails from lists into different bins.  I've tried mutt, but I
        can't get the hang of it and I don't want to waste the time to
        learn all of the special keys to make it work.  I need it to work
        in a UNIX console, but having a windows version would definitely
        be a plus.  IMAP support would also be useful.  thx
        \_ btw, you don't have to learn all those "special keys". you can
           do your own keybindings.
        \_ Sorting mail into different mailboxes traditionally is not
           a MUA task. This is typically done by MDAs like procmail or
           slocal. I suggest to take a look at procmail for mail sorting.
        \_ (n)mh is the best mail client ever. Combine with fetchmail
           if you need to get mail from an imap(s) server. Add mh-e
           and emacs if you want a nice front end.
           \_ assuming fetchmail does what i assume it does, doesn't that
              kind of defeat the purpose of imap?  (specifically LEAVING
              the mail in one central local for access and all that).
              Back when i worked I had pine on my linux box set up to
              access our exchange imap server.  It was extra sweet.
              \_ pine, extra sweet? you're extra silly.
              \_ fetchmail can leave mail on the server.  you could run
                 fetchmail from each place you might read mail and use the
                 same filters and you'll get the same mail everywhere and
                 it'll be safer than leaving it all in one basket waiting to
                 break like MSExchange.  But really what you'd do in the real
                 world is just fetchmail to one account and ssh in and leave
                 yourself logged in to deal with mail.  By playing with the
                 replcomps and other mh files you can reply to mail as anyone
                 based on where the mail was sent from so you always look like
                 you're sending from whatever account@domain.ext you'd like in
                 each case.  n/mh is harder to setup than other mail programs
                 but is also much more powerful if you need to really take
                 control of your mail.
                 \_ don't be a doofus, if the guy can't handle mutt there's
                    no way he can handle mh.  (And it's a stupid suggestion
                    anyway).  Besides, sorting mail isn't the job of your
                    mail client; use procmail.  -tom
                        \_ I disagree. (n)mh is much simpler than mutt or
                           any other mail reader (and it comes with nice
                           sorting features built-in, such as refile and
                           slocal (for those you don't want procmail)).
                           No control keys, menus or other nonsense is
                           required. It works on even the slowest of
                           connections. All you need to know how to do is
                           to use the shell and an editor and you don't
                           have to jump through hoops to get it to play
                           nice with fetchmail/procmail/etc since it has
                           the simplest of all possible mail sorting and
                           storage mechanisms.
                           \_ I've tried to use mh for mail quite a few times,
                              but each time I realize that it is far too
                              clunky if all I really use mail for is, well,
                              reading mail.  If I had tons of email from
                              50 different mailing lists and trouble tickets
                              etc etc, well then I might be convinced it is
                              useful, but I happen to like the ui of mutt.
                              It works, it what I want, and most importantly
                              I DIDN'T HAVE TO FUCK WITH IT to get it to
                              be easy to use.  -aspo
                              \_ Not sure why you have so many problems
                                 with (n)mh. I mostly use it to read mail
                                 and I was able to set it up and get it
                                 running in all of five mins. And the
                                 advantage of (n)mh is that you can run
                                 it on the cmd-line or you can use mh-e
                                 and run it in emacs allowing you to use
                                 one unified interface for reading mail,
                                 reading news, coding, surfing the web
                                 etc. The GNUS - (n)mh hooks also allow
                                 you to sort saved news into mh style
                                 folders so sorting your news and reading
                                 saved news can also be done using cli
                                 mh in some cases.
                    \_ mh and procmail go hand in hand, but you knew that,
                       didn't you, Doofus?  other people give options and
                       explain the why's, whatfors, and difficulties, whereas
                       you only spew hatred and put people down.  why are you
                       here?  do you get off on being a useless asshole?
                        \_ how is "mh" any more of an option than "procmail"?
                           procmail doesn't go hand-in-hand with mh any more
                           than it does with any other mail client.  the
                           original poster could use procmail to get the
                           functionality he wants, and continue using his
                           current email client.  The idea that a pine user
                           should switch to mh and fetchmail so he can
                           sort mail into folders is totally absurd.   -tom
2003/5/22-23 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW] UID:28525 Activity:high
5/22    Outlook question.  If I send a piece of e-mail with a 1MB attachment to
        100 people in my company using the same Outlook server, does it take up
        100MB on the server or does it only take up 1MB?  Thanks.
        \_ There is no such thing as an "outlook server". Do you mean
           a MS Exchange mail server?
           \_ Oops, I guess so.
        \_ Yes.
        \_ I think that's considered one of outlooks major features (not
           replicating files for each member of an organization).  It's
           probably configurable, but most likely you've only got one
           copy of the message on the server.
2003/5/2-3 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:28305 Activity:very high
5/1     Alright, I have lots of personal mail (~5000 msgs) currently in
        Outlook Express (I know, big mistake, but I started using it a long
        while ago, and now here I am)... I would like to backup/archive
        these. I'm thinking the best format to store mail like this is the
        unix mbox format? Any other suggestions? Is there some way to
        convert all my outlook express mail (w/ folders, sub-folders, etc)
        to this format? thanks alot.
        \_ http://mbx2mbox.sourceforge.net might be good enough for you.
           i found this by typing the following in googlsky:
        "outlook express" mbox unix
           "outlook express" mbox unix [formatd was here instead of deleted
           because you provided a decent answer]
        \_ mbox is ok if you never want to look at it again.  gzip and forget.
           \_ Why gzip when you can use philcompress?
              \_ Nunez knows his shit, man.
           \_ what if I do want to look at it again?
              \_ I'm an mh user and I like the way mh folders and the programs
                 that go with mh work so I'm going to say convert to that.  You
                 can later tar and compress the whole thing if you get bored of
                 it.  You can easily search and re-arrange files by subject,
                 date, sender, recipient, and other searches, etc, etc, etc.
                 It's powerful but I'm sure the pine users would tell you to
                 do something else.  ;-)
              \_ Mozilla uses mbox format.  It would be very easy to set up
                 mozilla (or thunderbird) as your mail program and the old mail
                 as a local mail folder.
                 \_ but mbox format sucks.
                    \_ No it doesn't.  Or do you want to elaborate?
                       \_ locking, single file corruption, searching, etc
        \_ I'm in the same boat, but my old mail is in Lotus Notes format.
           Suggestions?
           \_ Probably can be converted to exchange and then converted to
              outlook express and then to mbox.  Good luck!
        \_ Save all messages to a certain date in a PST file and burn it.
2003/4/24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:28211 Activity:low
4/24/   I was writing a letter in pine and got disconnected from soda.
        Is there a temp file anywhere? I'm not getting the usual
        "continue interrupted message" message.
        \_ ~/dead.letter if anywhere.  Or just wait for the process to
           die and it might come back.
2003/3/24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27820 Activity:moderate
3/23    I configured sendmail 8.12.8 to use STARTTLS and SMTP AUTH.  For mail
        clients that only use LOGIN and PLAIN (like Outlook Express) is the
        password still encrypted?  STARTTLS encrypts the transmission before
        the password is sent, right?
        \_ yeah ask the peep here, they can't even get SSL over POP working
           right
        \_ According to RFC 2487, there is no guarantee that mail will be
           processed in this way (see 5.1). In the case of sendmail you can
           force it to require clients to use a TLS encrypted session via
           TLS_Clt. For more info see:
           http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/starttls.html
           \_ Cool, thanks.
2003/3/21-22 [Computer/SW/Mail, Politics/Domestic, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:27797 Activity:moderate
3/21    Fuck self-righteous motd censoring assholes. You know who you are.
        \_ There's one person who's just removing all the long political msgs.
            \_ not all of them, just the non-peacenick ones, leaving
              the antiamerican ones and liberal ones. this is berkeley,
              no freedom of speech except for the elitist liberals
              \_ that's total bullshit.  the only thing that doesn't get
                 censored around here is discussions of sendmail.
                 sex, leftist politics, right-wing politics, and random
                 interesting things about life are all  too controversial
                 if you're a fragile-ego dickhead sysadmin.
                 \_ ooh!  I have a sendmail question...
                    \_ does it involve sex?
                       \_ It does involve yermom.
              \_ Aww. Can I get you a hanky? We'll make it all better for you.
2003/3/20-21 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:27772 Activity:nil
3/20    I'm converting from slocal to procmail on soda and I'm wondering
        if I need my .forward to invoke procmail or will sendmail do that
        automatically (and reliably) if I just have a .procmailrc file? tia.
        \_ .procmailrc is all you need (on soda at least).
2003/3/17 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:27722 Activity:moderate
3/16    Pine trees may help create smog, acid rain
        Death to trees!
        http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s804613.htm
        \_ ObDon'tUsePine
        \_ ObUseMutt
2003/3/12-13 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27667 Activity:low
1/12    I have two similar but seperate sendmail questions, both of which are:
        why is it that my (send)mail implementation likes to tack on
        http://mydomain.com to the end of otherwise valid email addresses...
        Sometimes when sending mail to jane@somedomain.com, it gets sent to
        jane@somedomain.com.mydomain.com (and thus bounces).  This is not
        consistent and seems only to happen if i'm sending out to more than one
        person with (you guessed it) pine.
        On a DIFFERENT BOX, any mail i send out (any client) to any sendmail
        server, gets THEIR domain tacked on the end so that me@mydomain.com
        becomes me@mydomain.com.theirdomain.com. This is consistent. Insights?
        \_ 1) stop using pine, 2) reinstall sendmail
2003/3/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27592 Activity:very high
3/3     There's a new sendmail root-exploit out there.  Time to patch/upgrade.
        (soda isn't vulnerable, but anyone running versions below 8.12 are)
        \_ Incorrect.  Every version since 5.19 or something is vulnerable
           up to and including 8.12.7.  Looks like soda still needs to be
           upgraded.  There's a patch out from FreeBSD, plus patches and
           8.12.8 distributions at http://sendmail.org.  Please correct your
           misinformation.  -- randal <rand@sendmail.com>
           \_ soda was patched with a 8.12.6 patch.
        \_ Email to root.
        \_ So what? Sendmail is so buggy wrt security that it might as well
           have been written by M$ code monkeys. If you want a secure mail
           server try postfix or qmail.
                \_ yeah, that's what, the second root hole in the past 3
                   years! what a piece of shit!
                   \_ yes. use qmail.
                        \_ you're deluding yourself if you think that qmail
                           wouldn't have just as many security problems if
                           it were as widely used as sendmail.  Reference:
                           Theo and openssh.  -tom
                           \_ Meaning what?  That as openssh became more
                              popular more holes were discovered or that theo
                              is a jerk so we should all not like openssh?
                              \_ Theo is specifically a jerk who used to
                                 crow all the time about how secure his
                                 software was, then when it became more
                                 popular more holes were discovered.  The
                                 exact same thing would happen with qmail
                                 if djb ever tried to make it into a
                                 generally useful program.  -tom
                                 \_ So exactly how many remote root holes
                                    have been discovered in OpenSSH in
                                    the default config? Exactly 1. How
                                    many in OpenBSD's 7 yr history?
                                    Exactly 1. Theo might be an ass but
                                    his software is secure. Same for DJB.
                                    Coding secure software requires a
                                    particular mindset that the people
                                    working on Sendmail (and Bind) don't
                                    have.
                                    \_ since November 2001, there have been
                                       three remote root and two local root
                                       holes found in openssh--that's far
                                       worse than sendmail over the same
                                       period.  -tom
                \_ tom, you make somewhat of a valid point, but i'm not talking
                   about theo here, i'm talking about djb. qmail is the #2 MTA.
                   how many qmail exploits have there been? besides, even if
                   you are right, in practice it is still less vulnerable bc
                   it is less targeted. the way i see it:
                   unix is to windows as qmail is to sendmail.
                   windows is more targeted, dumber people use windows, and
                   windows is generally easier to find holes in.
                   \_ I'm sure qmail is not the #2 MTA--#1 and #2 have to be
                      sendmail and Exchange.  In any case, it may be true that
                      qmail is inherently more secure than sendmail, but if so,
                      it's at least partly because of design decisions which
                      make qmail difficult to use in the real world. -tom
                      \_ Exchange?  I guess technically it's an MTA but using
                         Exchange in the same sentence as "security" seems
                         pointless.  Anyway, I agree qmail sucks to use in the
                         real world.  Actually it more than sucks.
                         \_ Qmail doesn't suck any worse than sendmail.
                            People are just so used to the pointless
                            complexity of sendmail that they don't really
                            notice it. Has anyone written a 500 page book
                            on how to use qmail? No. This is because it is
                            not as hard to use. -ausman
                            \_ don't be silly--qmail's configuration is
                               simpler than sendmail's, but it doesn't
                               support anything near the same level of
                               configurability.  -tom
                                \_ And for most folks a standard install of
                                   sendmail works fine, btw.  qmail requires
                                   all sorts of tedious bullshit.  So although
                                   making any serious changes to sendmail can
                                   be nearly impossible, most people won't need
                                   to anyway.
                                   \_ installing qmail is a breeze. the
                                      only tedious bullshit here is your
                                      comment. --aaron
                            \_ Having used both extensively I'll simply
                               disagree as a matter of personal choice.
                               Sendmail is bad but qmail is worse.
2003/2/18-19 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27454 Activity:very high
2/18    Sometimes, for some reason, I cannot abort (q) mail composition
        in mutt, here on soda.  What's the reason?
        \_ What happens when you hit q -- do you get any error messages?
           \_ nothing.  It is just ignored.  In fact it does not even say
           \_ ignore the superior solution at your peril, muttboy! muahaha!
        \_ use pine.
              key not bound.  To get out without sending the message I have
              to type ctrl-C.  And it does not happen every time but I haven't
              figured out the exact trigger.
        \_ mutt sucks.  that's the reason.  use (n)mh.
        \_ works for me.  ignore the mh guy.  capslock key stuck?
        \_ mail composition is done in your editor, not mutt.
        \_ sometimes the escape key in vi stops working for me
           on soda, i have no idea why.  and this is just on soda.
           \_ Ok, perhaps I haven't made myself clear.  There is some point
              \_ mh is the only mail handling method that won't cause you
                 endless mail client UI grief since it doesn't have a UI.
                 \_ ever wonder why bill gates is the richest man in the world?
                    it's because he doesn't have a big stick up his ass like
                    you and always strives to make software usable for the
                    average person.  No software is going to be popular if
                    it doesn't have a UI.
                    \_ I thought he was rich because his company is scummy and
                       stole every major technology they possess and abused
                       the hell out of their monopoly?  Damn, I better go buy
                       Apply stock, since they have a better UI.  I'm going to
                       be rich following your sage advice!  Rich! Rich! RICH!
              in mutt, just before you send out a mail, where you have the
              the choice to abort (q), to send (y), to edit (e).  At least
              sometimes, I cannot abort.  Everything else works, except q.
              And it is not due to stuck capslock.  I seems to work with mutt
              on other systems, and here on soda it has not been working for
           \_ Are you single?  Are you using a 30 year old OS, too?
              \_ yes, but this has nothing to do with it.
                 \_ Can I buy you a drink, sailor?
           \_ Runs fast over modem.
           \_ 18 years old means the mail client is legal. Can it have
              a relationship with an old 30+ year old OS? Send me pix.
              Make sure setenv TERM is correct to fix the q -- but you
              know when she says q, she really means yes.
                \_ How does your software work without a UI? Does it read your
                   mind? Have a mind of its own?
                   \_ Well.  No.  Better than that.
        \_ 18 year old mail clients with no UI are so cool!  I am
           also very attractive.
                \_ all right nerds, I'm coming for you, time to die.
        \_ Note to op: when nerds can't help you, they get pedantic
           and insult you. try google.
           \_ He was given the right answer.  What's your malfunction?
              quite a while.  But the stranges thing is that sometimes it does
              work.  Just now I reproduced both working and nonworking results.
2003/1/8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27032 Activity:nil
1/8     In HTML, is there a tag for specifying a link to an AOL Instant
        Messanger screen name, just like "mailto:" is for a link to an SMTP
        e-mail address?  Thanks.
        \_ No.
        \_ if the person has a newer version of aol im installed you can
           use <a href="aim:goim?screenname=yermom ... > etc...
           \_ It works!  Thanks!
2003/1/7-8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:27019 Activity:high
1/6   Has anyone here ever played with end-to-end (integrated) QoS?
      I'm trying to find out whether I can use it to force a client to
      throttle down its bandwidth (reserving a minimum as opposed to
      a maximum amount of throughput.)  If so, can I do this based on
      source/destination IP, as opposed to application-specific?  I.e. have
      the sum total bandwidth to a certain host not exceed x kbps.  No, the
      routing equipment doesn't do differential QoS.  -John
      \_ QoS has two parts, first is classification of traffic and second
         is what you want to do with the different classifications.  If
         you're using a cisco box, you can first setup ACLs to classify the
         traffic.  And then shape that traffic to a specific bandwidth.
         I don't understand your comments on routing equipment doesn't do
         differential QoS.  This has to be performed on a router.
        \_ You're asking for conflicting information.  You want to set a min
           or a max for this client?
           \_ Sorry, thought it was clear.  I want to set a max, and I
              don't care if it's on the client or server.  -John
         \_ RSVP can ignore components that don't support it.  I was trying
            to figure out whether integrated ("end-to-end") QoS would let
            me restrict bandwidth available to client X when trying to
            access server Y.  Unfortunately, I think it only lets you
            specify how much bandwidth a client is allowed to reserve, and
            allocates for guaranteed delivery within that amount of bandwidth,
            but does 'best-effort' for all traffic above and beyond that,
            instead of just restricting the total bandwidth the client is
            allowed to use.  -John
2002/12/17-18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26836 Activity:low
12/17   http://wamu.com guy here. Things started working today. Neither me or my
        admin has any clue. He did update the named.root file 4 days ago but
        I highly doubt that has anything to do with this. Any ideas on why
        the Intenet is such a mystery?
        \_ i guess your third sentence pretty much summed it up.
        \_ The Internet as it exists these days is the result of a whole
           bunch of hacks and kludges developed late at night while under
           the influence of powerful mind-altering substances such as
           coffee, beer and vc funding. That it continues to work at all
           desipte the constant unrelenting barrage of things like Java,
           RTSP, BIND, Sendmail and Outlook Express should shock and
           astound.
        \_ Mystery?  What mystery?  Only to the lack of clue people.
2002/12/10 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26778 Activity:nil
12/10   Small-ish web job available for a client of mine in Switzerland.
        Details in /csua/pub/jobs/web.  -John
2002/12/9-10 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26757 Activity:kinda low
12/8    Has anyone installed sendmail on a RH 8 machine that is MXed
        somewhere else, so doesnt need a listening sendmail?  If I
        remove the -bd flag, it doesnt sendmail out. Do I have to
        leave the -bd flag on? [it's secure against relaying but I'd
        rather not have it be listening at all].
        \_ chkconfig sendmail off
           \_ I hate how Linux invents new ways to do things when there's
              already perfectly good old ways.  And it's Linux's fault for
              the spread of the evil that is the bash shell, too.
2002/12/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26748 Activity:nil
12/8    this is a pretty good "system debugging story" --psb
        http://seanm.ca:70/0/nerd/500mileemail.txt
        \- i have some quibbles with the computation at the end but still
           a fun story. --psb
2002/12/6-7 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26738 Activity:very high
12/6    A few years ago I saw an online rant about why firstname.lastname
        email addresses are bad.  I think it was by Eric Allman, but I can't
        find any refrences to it.  Any ideas?  -John
        \_ i think it's a great idea.  what's the problem with it?
           \_ There are going to be many people with the same first.last
              combo.  There are going to be many with similar first.last.
              Too many will stupidly assume that first.last @ one place will
              be the same first.last at other places.  Much better to destroy
              that false assumption using all sorts of different things at
              different places.  And oh yeah, older hosts can't deal with
              long user names so you get into making aliases for everyone so
              they now have 2 addresses.
              \_ far lamer is using the first 7 letters, plus the first
                 initial.  EVEN more duplicates.  There's just no easy
                 answer for a large corp.
              \_ not necesarily.  what if it's a pretty small organization
                 that has it's own domain name: first.last@smalldomain.org?
        \_ http://www.sendmail.org/faq/section3.html#3.5.
           He ignores rational arguments against his position. -tom
           \_ Gee, tom, imagine that...
           \_ he won't disagree that it might work for some places.
              he will argue that it is not a general panacea.
              \_ actually, he will refuse to fix sendmail bugs related to
                 real name matching because he thinks you shouldn't do that.
                   -tom
           \_ and what are rational arguments for such a system?
              \_ being able to send mail without first consulting directory
                 services, or without having to have directory services
                 available.  There is also aesthetic appeal to name-based
                 addressing.  It breaks down for large enterprises, but for
                 small groups it's usually fine.  -tom
                   \_ "aesthetic" is not a rational argument. and I think
                       "firstname.lastname" is much uglier that "handle".
                       Anyways it seems designed for people to send email
                       withoug knowing the email address of the recipient.
                       sounds like a system designed for short term laziness
                       at the expense of long term simplicity and sanity.
                       \_ I agree. Let's ditch that DNS thing too. People
                          should use IP addresses, like God intended them to
                          do. Ascii was a bad idea too, everyone should learn
                          to type in hex.
        \_ not the same thing, but here is something:
           http://beef.berkeley.edu/report/namespace.html
            \_ that idea would be great it "you" happened to own the
               you@berkeley.edu name space, but if somebody else gets the
               name you use: you@csua.berkeley.edu  that would suck.
                \_ You would own you@berkeley.edu if you own you@uclink or
                   you@socrates.  That sort of screws people in departments
                   that provide their own mail servers, but it was a
                   necessary compromise to get the report written.  -tom
                     \_ so it screws people in technically competent
                        departments for the benefit of others.
                    \_  if you want shorter email addresses, what about
                        giving uclink or socrates ailiases like
                        <DEAD>mail.berkeley.edu<DEAD> or <DEAD>po.berkeley.edu<DEAD>? something
                        that has one syllable instead of 3.
2002/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26677 Activity:low 75%like:26680
11/30   Sometimes Pine deletes all my mail. How to avoid?
        \_ easy. delete it all yourself.
        \_ DELTEATED!
        \_ BALEETED!
        \_ Pine is my client
           My inbox is now empty
           Pine is bad for me
        \_ obUseARealMailReader
2002/12/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26674 Activity:insanely high
11/30   Anyone else having problems with pine dumping core? I know it's
        impossible but please lay off the "pine sux use mutt" propaganda.
        \_ haven't noticed anything recently.
        \_ You mean this?
                Problem detected: "Received abort signal".
                Pine Exiting.
                Abort (core dumped)
           I guess that means I've seen it.
2002/11/13-14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26525 Activity:high
11/12   What is a good X11 graphical NewsReader client?
        \_ Mozilla.  Works a charm.  If you _really_ want gui toys, you won't
           be concerned about bloat.  -John
        \_ Good?  Newsreader?  On X11?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHHAAHHA!!!!  If you're
           painfully desperate there's always Xnews but you're better off with
             \_ images
           a real client on windows.  Why do you need a GUI client for what's
           a strictly text based world?
             \_ images. A picture is worth a thousand words.
                \_ you can probably beat off to fewer than a thousand words
                \_ thats what external viewers are for.
        \_ gnus, running emacs in X11 mode and type M-x gnus.
        \_ ED! ED is the STANDARD good X graphical NewsReader client!
           \_ Uh no. xterm -e "telnet $NNTPSERVER nntp" would have been
              a better response
              \_ Are you new here?  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!
2002/11/11 [Computer/SW/Mail, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26512 Activity:nil
11/11   Henceforward, all criticism of mutt and/or non-negative statements
        about pine will be summarily removed from the motd. Thank you for
        your cooperation.
        \_ Are you the bozo that keeps censoring anti-Bush comments?
           \_ Anti-Bush comments are anti-American and pro-Terrorist.
2002/11/10-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26502 Activity:high
11/10   In light of recent motd postings, why is pine such a bad mail agent?
        \_ It's a bitch to maintain, it has a huge memory footprint, it has
           broken locking, it's far less configurable than just about anything
           else you can chose, it uses pico by default which is a terrible
           thing to give a newbie as their first editor, it enforces bad
           habits, ...  is that enough?
           \_ so in other words you're a lazy sysadmin?  Yeah, I really
        \_ It's only a bad mail agent compared to all the other ones.
        \_ It doesn't embarrass paolo.
              wany my Doctor to be concerned about "how to use VI"
              in his spare time.
              \_ It's nothing about laziness.  If your "Doctor" is going to
                 need a mailagent, have him pop his mail off the server with
                 his favorite application.  Pine has so much wrong with it,
                 and so much time is wasted on maintaining it, it should be
                 a non-entity.  it amazes me that it's not.
              \_ how do you get 'lazy sysadmin' out of 'description of shitty
                 mail client'?  the above also said *nothing* about vi or your
                 doctor.  you're an idiot.  i normally don't just flat out call
                 someone an idiot but in your case it'll do.
                 \_ "normally don't"? not likely.
                    \_ I'm not tom.
        \_ It isn't.
          \_ Exactly. I've been using mutt for about a year now and I'm just
             about to switch back. There's things pine did better without me
             searching through documentation and config files. Oh. pgp. Mutt
             handles pgp encryption better. I'm not a sysadmin so that's
             the only thing I've found that works better.
             \_ what about firing off external programs to deal with
                attachments or HTML mail?  what about managing spam filters?
             \_ what does being a sysadmin have to do with anything?  just
                because the motd has one very loud semi-sysadmin who likes
                mutt does not mean mutt is worth half a damn.  please stop
                painting all sysadmins with the same stupidity brush.  i know
                a few motd reading sysadmins for longer than your mutt using
                pseudo sysadmin with the loud mouth and none of them use mutt.
2002/11/10-11 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:26500 Activity:high
11/10   Is it possible for CSUA to automaticall forward all emails sent to
        <username>.* to username?  So like joe.amazon@csua would go to
        username@csua.
        \_ no, that would require work
           \_ Dumbass
        \_ you already have user+detail
           \_ How's that again?  Does that mean joe+*@csua will go to joe?
              \_ joe+<SMTPALLOWEDSTRING>@CSUA goes to joe@CSUA
                 \_ Do RFCs allow a plus in the user portion of address?
                    \_ Yes.
                       \_ Which one?
                          \_ RFC 822, Sec. 3.3
                             The localpart is word *(.word) (their notation),
                             according to sec. 6.1 of the same. 3.1 gives
                             word as atom or quoted-string. Atoms are
                             strings of chars except spaces, controls, and
                             special chars. None of these three categories
                             includes "+", so "+" is kept as part of the
                             atom token. The modern mail RFC, 2822, gives
                             a similar setup in its sec. 3.2.4, where atom
                             is explicitly 1*atext, with atext defined to
                             include valid chars, which are (quote):
                        ALPHA / DIGIT / ; Any character except controls,
                        "!" / "#" /     ;  SP, and specials.
                        "$" / "%" /     ;  Used for atoms
                        "&" / "'" / "*" / "+" / "-" / "/" / "=" / "?" / "^" /
                        "_" / "`" / "{" / "|" / "}" / "~"
                             ...And in all cases, it is left up to the
                             system to interpret localpart any way it likes.
                             Note that a lot of MTA's _will_ break on some of
                             those characters even though the RFC doesn't make
                             them illegal.
                             \_ more flexible is something like virtual
                                hosting username.domain.tld and forwarding
                                all mail to that smtp virtualhost to
                                username@domain.tld, letting you having
                                spamtag@username.domain.tld.
        \_ qmail does this better. arbitrary hierarchies and easy
           processing. and hyphen looks nicer than plus. --aaron
2002/11/5-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26412 Activity:moderate
11/04   Is the incoming mail server (POP3) still http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu?
        Can't seem to download email into Outlook 2002 for some reason.
        \_ you need to use "pop3 over ssl" or "imap over ssl"
           \_ Thanks.  Soda does not allow outgoing mail (SMTP) from a mail
              client right?  Just double-checking.
              \_ of course it does.
              \_ You can use SMTP if you use an ssh tunnel.
                 \_ isn't mail or pine a mail client?
                    \_ pine is not a mail client.
2002/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26365 Activity:very high
10/30   In pine (yeah, I know, pine sucks and I should use something better),
        when I look at my sent-mail folder, it shows who the message was sent
        to.  However, if I copy a sent-mail folder from another account and
        access it with pine, it sees that the mail was not sent from my csua
        account and figures it's not a sent mail and just lists the message as
        From: <my name>, rather than To: recipient, which isn't very useful
        when looking for a message I sent to a particular person (Yes, I can
        use grep, but I would prefer to see the To: field as I scroll through
        the list of messages).  Is there is way to force pine to show the To:
        field as I scroll through the messages?  Or maybe instead of using
        'login@soda.csua.berkeley.edu' as a criteria for determining if it's
        a message I sent out, maybe it could just use 'login' as the criteria?
        \_ nope.  As you said, pine sucks.
        \_ You obviously don't understand that pine sucks.  Just saying it
           at the start doesn't excuse your endless whining about your fourth
           rate mail reader.  When we say you should use something better, we
           mean you should use something better and stop asking stupid pine
           related questions.  You have people here highly proficient in all
           the major (useful) mail readers.  Pick one at random and you'll
           get your questions answered.  Stop using pine.  Stop bugging the
           motd about pine.  Read Free Republic.  Vote
           for Mondale.  Just stop.  Fuck.
           motd about pine.  Just stop.  Fuck.
           \_ How do I launch pine on soda?
              cp it to a disk and put it on the next shuttle flight
           \_ ok, what's a major useful mail reader?
              \_ dog
                 \_ rm.  ed.  newfs.
              \_ mutt
              \_ (n)mh + mh-e, gnus, vm
        \_ Go to pine's config ((M)ain (S)etup (C)onfig).  scroll down to
           near the bottom, and add your other email address to the field
           called "alt-addresses".
           \_ Thanks!  That's exactly what I was looking for.  See, pine
              doesn't suck as much as you people think it does.
2002/10/25-28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26319 Activity:low
10/24   How do I set up sendmail so that "mail user" doesn't go to the
        local mail spool? Right now mail user@domain goes to Exchange
        but mail user doesn't.
        \_ http://www.sendmail.org/m4/masquerading.html
           See "LOCAL_RELAY". -- jsjacob
           \_ thanks. still don't work. actually sending mail to an
              unqualified user makes the mail disappear. too bad
              our sys admins only do MS.
        \_ WTF are you trying to do?  Just use the provided mail server.
2002/10/15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26184 Activity:high
10/14   I recently setup a new machine as my mail server. I want my old
        machine to forward all pop/imap/smtp requests to my new server. I can
        do this trivially with a persistent ssh connection, but is there a
        better / more robust way to do this?
        \_ look at the rdr rule in ipnat.
        \_ You're *supposed* to be using dns and thus only need to change a
           few dns records, not screw with ipnat or persistent ssh or anything
           kludgey like that.
           \_ If the hostname on client configurations has to stay the same
              for some reason?  Ipnat is not kludgey.  -John
              \_ Then you let it stay the same.  DNS is still the answer.
                 \_ If you want to forward *ALL* pop/imap/smtp connections
                    then DNS won't help you. What if some clients use hard
                    coded IPs? ipnat rdr is the only complete solution.
                    If you can't do ipnat, set up port forwarding on your
                    router (most ciscos can do this).
                    \_ hard coded IPs?  Who is *that* stupid?  Yes if someone
                       was *that* stupid then you need stupid kludges like
                       ipnat rdr but better to switch the clients to dns
                       names like they should have been in the first place.
                       And fire whatever incompetent boob put IPs in there.
2002/9/26-27 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:26017 Activity:moderate
9/26    Is there a way to get procmail to send a bounce?
        _/
:0
* ^From.*tonyvsos@iol.ie*
* !^X-Loop: qtmyfy@inl.org
| (/usr/bin/formail -r -A"X-Loop: qtmyfy@inl.org" ; \
        echo "qtmyfy@inl.org is not a valid address.") | $SENDMAIL -t
        \_ Not exactly what I want... I want a MAILER-DAEMON style reply.
2002/9/23-24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25982 Activity:moderate
9/22    Will CSUA provide pop3/spop3 access soon?
        \_ The CSUA does provide spop3 access.
        \_ no. fuck off.
           \_ go fuck yourself you dip shit!!
              \_ someone get this freshman a beer.  this fool needs to chill.
        \_ my question is... why do you want pop3 anyway? pine/mutt/elms are
           so much better
           \_ archiving
        \_ Why would you use the csua for your email anyway?
           \_ it's my last berkeley connection, and was until now
              something permanent.
           \_ for the same reason you do, dumbshit
              \_ child, I don't.  using me as an example is not enhancing
                 your case at all.  want to be like me?  run your own server
                 and domain at home.
                 \_ damn you're cool! why are you even bothering
                    with this lowly csua?
                    \_ no im not cool.  im doing what everyone with any sense
                       is already doing: taking control of my online world. i
                       come here so i can hang out with k-kewl people like you.
        \_ dude, csua does support pop3 access... only from localhost...
           just use ssh to tunnel in. I've
           been using this for almost 2 years.
           \_ damn it!  now they'll all start asking how to set up tunnels and
              "how to tunnel pop ssh?"   what were you thinking?
        \_ POP is not going to work from a non local machine,
           but POP over SSL works.  What mail client are you using?
           Windows clients like Eudora and Outlook and Outlook Express
           and Mozilla Mail all support POP over SSL, you just have to
           click on the right button.
           \_ thanks! finally got it. I am using outlook...
        \_ I never did get an answer to my SMTP question from last week.
           Is it possible to send mail from a non-local host to a non-local
           host without going through an ssh tunnel? --different guy
           \_ The answer was "no".  Go look up "open relay" on google.
              \_ I know what an open relay is.  That's why I expected some
                 way to authenticate myself so the server can verify that
                 I have an account.  Oh wait, but smtp doesn't do
                 authentication, despite the fact that my mail client has a
                 checkbox for it.  Whee.
                 \_ Some mail servers support SMTP AUTH.  RFC 2554,
                    http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/auth.html  -John
                 \_ So you seriously expect the csua to do smtp auth of some
                    sort so you can relay via soda?  I don't see a big need
                    and wouldn't ask the VP to spend their time on it.
                    \_ not really.  I was just looking to see if it was
                       possible so I know if I'm configuring my mail client
                       incorrectly.  these are the types of responses I was
                       looking for, not the as "you don't need to authenticate
                       to SMTP, you retard" responses I was getting before.
                    \_ why would the CSUA not want to do SMTP AUTH?  -tom
                        \_ Because it'll require effort on someone's part for
                           minimal gain.
                           \_ You have a superfluous prepositional phrase in
                              that sentence.  -tom
                              \_ Uh huh.  So what?  You had a point?
                              \_ is there really one "tom", or is it a
                                 group of people having a contest to see
                                 how fucking annoying they can be?
                                 \_ I've been watching.  There's just one.
2002/9/18-19 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25933 Activity:high
9/18    Don't let the junior guy flush the sendmail queue.  You'll spend more
        time cleaning up his mess than it would've taken in the first place.
        Let him change tapes and surf.
        \_ Why not just use qmail?
           \_ Don't even talk to me about qmail.  I've got that running on
              two other boxes.
           \_ it was written by djb. If you want to use Maildir for
              mail delivery, postfix is a better solution.
              \_ what's wrong w/ djb?
                 \_ he lives in a fantasy world
                 \_ he is a good programmer and theoretician, but his
                    personality and social skills are on par with tjb.
2002/9/14-16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25888 Activity:high
9/14    does soda support smtp over ssl?
        \_ FWIW: SMTP over ssh works (using port forwarding) -lim
           \_ I already know that, but would prefer not to keep ssh'ing in
              to send mail.
              \_ Why not just stay ssh'ed in? Anyway, what's so great about
                 smtp over ssl? Do you need to make sure your employers
                 aren't reading your raunchy emails?
                 \_ Like they don't have keyboard loggers or hidden spyware
                    running if they cared.
        \_ For fuck's sake, why use SODA for anything that you want to have
           the appearance of security.  it's EMAIL for fuck's sake.
           \_ I was going to say something like that.  Instead, I'll just say,
              "Antonio Banderas!  Eckes!  Ditto!" for the movie preview crowd.
           \_ well, according to that logic, why do we bother requiring ssh
              at all?
              \_ Protecting logins is much different than protecting email.
                 With a local login breach, you expose the organization to
                 liability.  no one cares about your email.
                 \_What if the e-mail contains sensitive data about the
                 orginization?
                 \_ Okay, I guess I'm doing something wrong, because don't I
                    need to provide a login/password to send mail to out of
                    soda, or is soda an open relay?  are passwords always
                    encrypted when authenticating to smtp?
                    \_ Actually, yes.  Only ssl pop and imap access are
                       allowed.  And you don't "authenticate to smtp".
                       Don't try to be clever without doing your research.
                       \_ Sorry.  Is "are passwords always encrypted when
                          providing authentication to an SMTP server" better?
                          I guess I'm just retarded; even when using secure
                          password authentication for SMTP, I can't send email
                          to other hosts.  And no, I am not a dormy; I'm just
                          an alum with no SMTP-fu.
                          \_ You don't authenticate with an SMTP server. Ok?
                             telnet localhost 25. helo foo, mail from: me
                             rcpt to: csua@csua, data, you suck, .
                             Nowhere do you supply a username or passwd
                             \_ that's fine and dandy when you're sending mail
                                to users on csua, but what about to elsewhere?
                                won't you get a "no relaying" error message?
                                and if there's no authentication, wtf is the
                                auth command for?
              \_ I hate dormies who take everything to extreme and silly
                 conclusions and therefore argue for the opposite.  Here's the
                 other direction, "Let's unplug soda for optimum security. No
                 one can be trusted, anything less is unsafe".  Stupid dormy.
              \_ One is about protecting data, the other is about protecting
                 your password, which includes more than just data.
2002/8/26 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25687 Activity:moderate
8/26    Hi.  Got a message "You can't cancel someone else's article" when I
        tried to cancel my own message from trn.

        from usenet:

> NOTE #2:  If you follow the instructions, but get an error message that
> says something like "You can't cancel someone else's article", that means
> that your newsreader was not installed properly.

        Is this a problem I need to fix or something else?  Thanks
        \_ It's already 'out there'. Cancelling it won't help.  I can still
           find things I posted years ago and cancelled minutes later on the
           various usenet archives.  The cancel message immediately follows
           the original in the archives... useless.
2002/8/25 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25675 Activity:high
8/25    mjm's mutt process has gone crazy again.
        \_ so?
           \_ curious what that boy is doing with mutt.
                \_ Doggy style
           \_ mjm killed the process and is going back to pine.  He wants
              to hear no more positive comparisons for mutt over pine.
              \_ Who told him to use mutt?  It's a POS.  If you want something
                 that's powerful, flexible, *never* runs wild buring cpu/memory
                 *and* has a community of people willing to help more than just
                 scream "pine sucks, use mutt!" you want mh/nmh.  So much for
                 the mutt experiment.  If you'd had mh problems people would've
                 helped.
        \_ mjm, what caused the switch back?
           \_ if my ssh connection is broken while in mutt, it starts
              eating up all the CPU (90%).
2002/8/22-23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25648 Activity:nil
8/21    Current mutt requests:
        How do I bind multiple keys to the same function?
        What's the URL for the pine-style .muttrc?
        \_ er..  just put in another bind line.  binds do not substitute
           each other --scotsman
        \_ Use pine.
        \_ Yeah, pine is definitely the answer.  Or nmh.  Who told you to
           use mutt?  Either go for it and use the real thing like mh or
           just stick with a toy like pine.  Why go half way?
2002/8/22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25643 Activity:nil
8/21    Okay, I finally did it.  I switched to mutt.  Not very painful.  Are you
        all happy now? --former pine user
2002/8/21-22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25638 Activity:high
8/21    What's with this guy?
33706 mjm       54   0  4176K  1316K RUN    631:06 43.07% 43.07% mutt
35101 mjm       54   0  4168K  1316K RUN    539:02 42.72% 42.72% mutt
        \_ Apologies.  The motd told me to try mutt.
        \_ Does it actually hurt performance for others given the lottery
           scheduling algorithm?
           \_ no lottery any more.  that went away with mkV (?).
           \_ notice how two runaway mutt's dont kill soda.  pine would have
2002/8/20-21 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:25623 Activity:very high
8/20    using gpg i want to associate someones public_key with a wildly
        different alias that they also use to mail me encrypted text.
        I skimmed the long man-page but didn't find it.
        \_ you really think the nsa cant read your text in real time?  get
           real.  they can spot the gpg signature and flag your packets to
           make certain a human reads the messages.  sheesh.  dont you know
           the best way to hide is in plain sight where your traffic looks like
           everyone else's and only the computers will read (and ignore) it?
           \_ (!OP): I don't care about the NSA. I care about business
              competitors, 1337 haxors, and the like.
              \_ w3 @1r3d33 0wNz y00.
           \_ (TOP) o.k. i love to ecourage trolls..
                1)  I'm trading commercial "secrets" not military ones so I
                    don't much care if some cypher-wonk in the basement of
                    the pentagon reads my mail.
                2)  By encrypting traffic "they"re not interested in i'm making
                    their job harder, if only a little, which makes me happy.
                \_ What mail client do you use to (en|de)crypt mail w/ gpg?
                   \_ mutt
                   \_ pine.  (flame away)
                \_ So you trust foreign governments such as the French who are
                   known to engage in industrial espionage for their
                   corporations not to steal your data and hand it over to
                   your competitors?  So much to learn, so little time....
2002/8/14 [Recreation/Woodworking, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25559 Activity:nil
8/14    today's motd is truly brilliant.
        \_ you call this brilliant?  Come on, dude.  Troll harder.
        \_ The pine thread was my original work if you liked that part of
           today's motd.
           \_ That straightens it all out.  Why do you people not sign
              your names... --scotsman
              \_ Why *do* you sign yours?  There are enough non-anonymous
                 forums if we chose to converse in that format.
                 \_ Okay, more exactly.  Why do you say something like this
                    and not sign your post?  It undercuts any cleverness you
                    may have had with the pine post. --scotsman
                    \_ It has nothing to do with cleverness.  I'm letting them
                       know I'm here so we can chat about it briefly.  I may
                       not even be the pine poster.  I may not be the person
                       who claimed to be the pine poster.  You may not be
                       scotsman.  I think today I'll be scotsman.  --scotsman
2002/8/14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25556 Activity:very high
8/13    And just to save us all from this week's pathetic query: No. No one
        knows the answer to your stupid pine question.  Stop using pine.  Get
        a real mail client.  Use *anything* else.  Common suggestions are
        mutt and mh (or nmh which is 99% the same thing).  Thank you.
        \_ I stand in awe of your trolling brilliance.
        \_ re: butt.  if you want a transition from pine to butt, use elm
           \_ Thanks.  Just doing my part to keep it interesting.  --OP
        \_ fuck off.  It's just email.  I read some, write some, delete many,
           for a while.  smaller and cleaner than pine, with menus with the
           same UI (pretty much) as butt. pst
           \_ there is absolutely no reason to run elm.  butt is also
           and pine works.  some of us don't need to prove our manhood by
        \_ if you search for it, there is a muttrc that remaps all of the
           the mail client we use.  and no, I never ask pine questions on the
           motd.
        \_ re: mutt.  if you want a transition from pine to mutt, use elm
           mutt? it doesn't even work with html mail oob -- the average user
        \_ if you search for it, there is a buttrc that remaps all of the
           for a while.  smaller and cleaner than pine, with menus with the
           same UI (pretty much) as mutt. pst
           \_ there is absolutely no reason to run elm.  mutt is also
           butt? it doesn't even work with html mail oob -- the average user
              smaller and cleaner than pine.  if you're going to switch,
              switch to something decent.  -tom
              \_ some people take some time to wean themselves off menus.
                 this is the path i took.  it was just a suggestion -scotsman
        \_ Transition from pine to mutt is quite painful. First you notice
                 \_ mutt has as many menus as elm.  -tom
           remapped. Various mutt defaults give you a very raw experience
           compared to pine (e.g. mutt displays full headers by default,
        \_ if you search for it, there is a muttrc that remaps all of the
           keys so it feels like you're using pine.  This is the best solution
           that most of that can be fixed by writing a 20-line muttrc, though,
           to the transition problem i've seen.
        \_ do you seriously think the average pine user is going to switch to
           configurable (though, mutt wins in this area). They really did get
        \_ Transition from pine to butt is quite painful. First you notice
           mutt? it doesn't even work with html mail oob -- the average user
           remapped. Various butt defaults give you a very raw experience
           compared to pine (e.g. butt displays full headers by default,
           isn't going to understand why not. they don't want to go stfw
           for this and that, either.
           that most of that can be fixed by writing a 20-line buttrc, though,
           \_ you're an idiot.
              \_ you're a dipshit.
           configurable (though, butt wins in this area). They really did get
           \_ this is the stuff that windows is made of.
              \_ face it, sometimes you need to read html mail, maybe because
                 someone else is stupid. the necessity of reading manuals and
                 tweaking things is endemic to power user tools -- the people
                 asking pine questions are not power users.
        \_ Transition from pine to mutt is quite painful. First you notice
           that many pine keys which you have been using for -years- have been
           remapped. Various mutt defaults give you a very raw experience
           compared to pine (e.g. mutt displays full headers by default,
           pressing space at the end of message makes the pager load the next
           message, html mail is not handled well, etc). Eventually you learn
           that most of that can be fixed by writing a 20-line muttrc, though,
           that's still a pretty rocky transition and not recommended for
           non-geeks. I still think pine is a pretty good program and is quite
           configurable (though, mutt wins in this area). They really did get
           the user interface right (that doesn't include pico, I prefer using
           vim as the text editor). I still use it on my other unix accounats.
           \_ god forbid one has a consistent user interface, where exiting a
              given menu is always 'q', etc.  and this is why you ASK GEEKS
              FOR HELP.  They will point you to decent sample config files.
              Ease of use is a few small steps away.
        \_ So you're pathetic existence has been reduced to this - insulting
           those who ask benign questions on the MOTD.
           \_ They're not benign questions.  They really are, purely, a waste
              of time.  I'd love to see someone be proactive about this and
              pkg_deinstall pine -scotsman
              \_ uh,.. right.  so you're saying that answering a question
                 is a "waste of time", but participating in a
                 flame war about wether or not it's a waste of time
                 isn't a waste of time?  you are truly an idiot.
                 \_ You're the one flaming, boy.  Unsigned, too.
                    Get a life, and then perhaps your opinion can matter.
                    --scotsman
                 \_ from my cold, dead fingers buddy
        \_ Let's say you get your wish and all the pine users switch to
           mutt.  The same clueless people will be asking tons of
           questions on the motd about mutt.  How is this any better?
           \_ one is more productive
              \_ how so?
                \_ if they're using mutt, there are ways to accomplish what
                   they are asking.  -tom
                   \_ mutt is for idiots who really think that riding a
                      bicycle is more efficient than driving a car
                   \_ And if your grandmother had a wheel, she'd be a
                      wheelbarrow. So what?
                   \_ Please name one problem posted to the motd that
                      couldn't be accomplished with pine.
2002/8/13-14 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25549 Activity:high
8/13    After changing /etc/dfs/dfstab and restarting nfsd my other machine
        still can't see /net/mymachine/mydir. I've checked the /etc/auto_mount
        on the client side and it looks ok. What's going on?
        \_ you don't need to restart nfsd to activete those NFS shares.
           just run shareall && share
        \_ What does the share command say?  Is it really being exported?
           \_ -               /private   rw=group1:group2:   ""
              \_ Is the nfs client working on your local machine? Did you
                 check /etc/hosts for the correct remote machine IP/name?
                 \_ yes client working. I just checked that they are on
                    different YP domains (e.g. ypcat netgroups return very
                    different entries). I've tried adding the groups in
                    /etc/hosts.equiv but it still doesn't work.
        \_ Can you manually mount the server from the client?  You need to
           do some work to isolate the problem to nfs, perms, YP, or whatever.
        \_ I hear jon will fix your problem if you submit a work request
           to CUSG, but if you don't have a contract, it will cost you
           82.50 an hour.
                \_ no thank you
           \_ can't mikeh do it for cheaper?
              \_ I'll do it for $60/hr without the paperwork.  Gotta pay cash
                 under the table though.  Fuck the IRS.
2002/8/8 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:25519 Activity:kinda low
8/7     My terminal setting is consistantly jacked up, despite my attempt
        to set terminal to vt100. programm such as less or motdbrowser
        motdedit won't work properly.  The strange thing is, once I run
        PINE, then the terminal setting for some reason will fix itself,
        everything that doesn't work before would then work.
        What is so special about PINE the mail program?  How to fix the
        terminal without running Pine?
        \_ What exactly are your "efforts to set terminal to vt100"?
           \_ ok, i admit, I don't know.  set/unset the TERM environment
              variable,  and execute mysterioius "tset" and hope for the
              best
              \_ try "set term=vt100"
              \_ tset is more likely to screw things up than help
        \_ eval `resize`
2002/7/31-8/1 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:25456 Activity:moderate
7/30    Whoever got SSL IMAP working, I love you and want to have your
        children.
        \_ I'm sending money to the CSUA.  They've provided me with so much
           over the years.
        \_ No thanks. -mgoodman
        \_ Er, SSL IMAP still doesn't work.  It logs in but no folders show up.
                \_ varies from client to client. Try Pine or netscape.
        \_ I hope they like mailboxes getting stuffed now.
2002/7/26-28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25430 Activity:kinda low
7/26    Are the binaries in /usr/local/bin with recently dates, a restored
        version or a recompiled version?  trn, for example, doesn't have
        the default nntp server set.  I have to manually set NNTPSERVER
        env variable to get it working.  I'm wondering if I'll have these
        little problems again.  Thanks.
        \_ ungrateful wretch!  dont you know you should bow down at all times
           to those who volunteer their time to keep soda running as smoothly
           and SECURELY as it has been?  Don't you understand they get nothing
           out of this?  It isn't even good for resume fluff.
           \_ I can't tell if you're being sarcastic because it's true,
              they get nothing out of this and it's useless for resume
              fluff.
                \_ What do you mean useless?  It makes great resume fluff!
           \_ its decent resume fluff if you do it for at least a year and
              have nothing else on your resume.. better than most internships
2002/7/18-19 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25387 Activity:very high
5/17    Does anyone have a sample .screenrc that remaps the keys so that
        screen does not eat the emacs editing keys (like ctrl-a, ctrl-e, etc)?
        (Also, please motdedit to change this file, damn it)
        \_ ok
        \_ yes. -geordan
        \_ ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!  VT100 screen manager
           \_ Bah. Curses has made society weak. Use a teletype or adm3a term.
              \_ Is it ED compatible?
        \_ how exactly does screen eat ctrl-e? and what would you suggest as an
           ideal alternative to ctrl-a?
           \_ ^o.  Nothing I've come across uses ^o.  --scotsman
              \_ pine uses ^o.
                 \_ like i said, nothing worth using uses ^o. --scotsman
                 \_ don't use pine.  pine users are always the ones with the
                    problems and complaints no one else has.  figure it out
                    already.  drop pine.
                 \_ Pine is so full of holes is not even funny. Don't use
                    Pine.
                 \_ If you have reached the level of enlightenment where
                    you are using screen, you should already have left pine
                    behind long ago.
                    \_ What's so wrong with pine anyway?
                       \_ It's a mail client for kids.  It's also a fucking
                          mess.  If it was a decent mail client, you wouldn't
                          see 95% of email problems on the motd coming from
                          pine users.
                          \_ None of those are problems.  I'm not trying
                             to pick a fight, just curious.
                             \_ When all my pine users complain about how hard
                                it is to use pine or configure pine or how can
                                I do XYZ in pine and no one else does, it's
                                time to /bin/rm pine.  Pine is a problem.
                                /bin/rm is the solution.
                                \_ Is this because your users are stupid,
                                   or because pine is actually bad?
                                   \_ Well using the CSUA user base as a
                                      sample set, we must decide between:
                                      1) users choose mail client at random and
                                         pine is just bad,
                                      2) only stupid users choose pine, there's
                                         nothing wrong with pine, it's just
                                         that only stupid people choose it,
                                      3) pine is bad and only stupid people
                                         would choose it.
                                      You can decide for yourself.
                    \_ Pine still has better mime support than MH-e and
                       most other mail readers.
                       \_ use mutt.  and if you're having trouble with mime and
                          mh, you're not doing it right.
           \_ soda [~] % ps -aux | grep mutt | wc
                         13     147     928
              soda [~] % ps -aux | grep pine | wc
                         65     739    4571
                \_ sigh... sad.  But people using (n)mh won't show on a ps
                   because they're not chewing resources continuously.
                \_ I also seem to recall some OCF staff mail where a user
                   had some problems cuz he would ^Z pine and logout... are
                   all of those active pine processes?  Also, if I was stuck
                   using pine, I'd leave it open just so I didn't have to wait
                   the years it takes to load the entire mailbox into memory.
        \_ I use ctrl-d: screen -e^Dd. No problems with emacs (or the shell
           exiting when you type ctrl-d)
           \_ and then what do you use for EOF? --scotsman
              \_ Nothing. I never issue a EOF by hand.
                 \_ You never cat > file?  what do you use as a shell that
                    doesn't have a variation on ignoreeof?
           \_ I use ctrl-o, because it's not really used anywhere else
              outside of telnet. -geordan
              \_ and pine/pico... crap, did I say that aloud?
                 \_ pine/pico... can you hear me laughing?
        \_ just get used to ctrl-a, it's easier than you think.
           \_ then i'd have to get used to vi-mode for my shell..  too much
              of a hassle.
        \_ if the emacs function you have ^A bound to is idempotent, you can
           get into the habit of hitting ^A twice, even when not using screen.
           \_ And then change your habit on machines that you don't have
              screen on?  It's reasoning like this that keeps microsoft
              dominant.
              \_ No, it's abuse of monopoly power that keeps MS dominant.
        \_ I use ^].  Only telnet uses this, as far as I know.
           \_ So does screen, for pasting from its cutbuffer.
              (Actually, both ] and ^] are mapped to paste.) -geordan
              \_ Well, you're not likely to use screen inside of screen.
                 \_ You'd be surprised.  And yes, that path does lead
                    to madness. -geordan
                    \_ The path to enlightenment runs through the valley
                       of madness.
                        \_ There's something almost deep in there but I can't
                           figure out what.
                           \_ /usr/local/valley/of/madness/enlightenment/bin
                              Huh.  Whaddayaknow, it does. -geordan
2002/7/9-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25315 Activity:kinda low
7/9     Why was SpamAssassin removed? It seemed to work pretty well! --dim
        \_ There is a copy in /usr/local/bin now, so I removed the
           one in /csua/bin, since it was a conflicting version. Let
           me know if the one in /usr/local/bin doesn't work for you. -ausman
           \_ now that we know it's installed, how do we use it?  add a
           .forward file?  I don't use Procmail.  I use Pine as my client
                \_ It's odd how 95% or more of motd email questions and help
                   requests are from pine users.  Where did this pine
                   generation get hooked?  Is this BH's fault?
                   \_ lol, well you gotta admit pine is adequate for general
                   email usage.  So if it's fine, why bother switching? Correct
                   me if I'm wrong, very few people will keep changing their
                   email clients.
                   \_ your assertion is false.  Try again.
2002/7/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Virus] UID:25303 Activity:moderate
7/8     Anyone use any SMTP anti-virus software? Anything free out there
        which at least detects for the major viruses like Klez?
        \_ google: klez procmail
        \_ Anyone use Symantec's MailGear or similar products?
        \_ I am using exim+exiscan+SAVI. SAVI is not free but
           there is a trial version available. --jsjacob
2002/7/5-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25288 Activity:nil
7/5     How do I get sendmail to disclose the recipients? I RTFM and i can
        specify the from with -F and -f.  How do I specify the TO
        (or at least have it just USE the addresses it is really to!)?
2002/7/2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25259 Activity:kinda low
7/1     What's the best file swapping client to grab a copy of war3?
        \_ Just do it the old fashion way... usenet.
        \_ Got mine from usenet.  Works great.
        \_ http://www.easynews.com  Best 8 bucks/month I ever spent.  -John
           \_ obYermom
2002/6/29-7/1 [Recreation/Music, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25241 Activity:moderate
6/28    ok, so audiogalaxy is now broken, napster is dead, gnotella always
        sucked, and has gotten worse.  where do we go to get free music now?
        \_ I use Grokster - neutered so that it doesn't phone home. You can
           find howto's on the net.
        \_ Sam Goody's.
           \_ You use the old FiveFingers client?
              \_ Real pros only need and use the TwoFingers client.
        \_ http://www.kazaalite.com
        \_ Qtrax max and blubster
        \_ I've been quite traumatized by the loss of audiogalaxy... I've
           started using WinMX a bit... and it seems ok. nothing too great...
           but it seems a lot of audiogalaxy people are going there which
           means the music selection should be great. If they can just
           improve their infrastructure, they'll be good.
        \_ Gnucleus is a pretty decent gnutella client; it's GPLed and
           lacks spyware.
           \_ Which almost makes up for the fact that gnutella sucks.
        \_ Qtrax max and blubster. These are the two best clients that I've
           found after playing with about 15 of them. I'm unemployed so I have
           lots of time to compare the quality of the various MP3 engines.
2002/6/11-12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:25074 Activity:kinda low
6/11    Is agate down?
        \_ ping agate
           \_ I think he wants to know why nntp is not working:
              soda$ telnet agate nntp
              Trying 128.32.206.40...
              Connected to <DEAD>agate.Berkeley.EDU<DEAD>.
              Escape character is '^]'.
              503 NNTP server unavailable. Try later.
              Connection closed by foreign host.
              \_ Obviously it's unavailable and he should try later....
        \_ Ask rob to come back and fix it.
        \_ soda 9: telnet agate 22
           Trying 128.32.206.40...
           Connected to <DEAD>agate.Berkeley.EDU<DEAD>.
           Escape character is '^]'.
           SSH-1.5-OpenSSH_2.9 FreeBSD localisations 20010713
           So, cool, how long has agate been freebsd?  It was a Vax the last
           I knew....
           \_ gee, it was running FreeBSD for several years now. Are you one
              of those who also think that the OCF still uses Apollo
              Domain workstations?
              \_ I loved those Apollo's.
              \_ Hi Dumbshit, what did I say? "It was a Vax the last I knew".
                 What else did I say?  "how long has agate been freebsd".
                 Thank you for answering my question about how long and fuck
                 you for implying I'm stupid for not keeping up with every
                 change of random UC hardware/software.
                 \_ God, grow up. Or get that dick extension surgery you
                    seem to be so desperately in need of.
                    \_ Yes I should grow up.  I'm such an asshole for asking a
                       simple question.  I aspire to be just like you one day!
                       I'll come on the motd and personally insult people I
                       don't know who have done no harm.  Good choice.
2002/6/11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25072 Activity:nil
6/11    Does anyone know what is wrong with agate? Is there an alternate
        news server?
        \_ its broken?
        \_ someone forgot an apostrophe in a config file?
2002/6/11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:25064 Activity:very high
6/10    My boss has this idea of creating a cross-carrier SMS
        application.  Search the web only showed me companies that
        sell cross-carrier SMS platforms.  I can't seem to find any
        pointers to how such application can be created.  Any ideas?
        It would seem to me the carriers would have to expose their
        SMS gateway APIs to accomplish this.  BTW, one explicit
        requirement is not to use the SMTP implementation of SMS that most
        carriers allow.
        \_ Short answer: If you're in Europe, SMS is already standard and the
           API is already public.  But, then again, cross carrier SMS already
           works in Europe so what you propose is unnecessary there.  Since
           you're in the US, you are, as the French say, fucked.  If you're
           not going to use the SMTP to SMS gateways that the telcos provide,
           you get to contract with each and every telco for the privilege of
           using their SMS systems, most of which were never really built to
           interoperate.  Telcos are big and slow.  Expect six months
           negotiation time, and make sure your contact at each telco was
           hired in the last month or two because average telco turnover time
           is roughly six months.  I'd be happy to chat with you about this
           some more, but it would be on a consultancy basis.  Send me email
           if interested. -dans
           \_ I saw the french get beaten up by Jet Li.  That was GREAT!
              \_ Yeah, I saw that move too.  It kicked ass. -dans
                 \_ where are the 3133+ logout pics, raverboy?
                    \_ Hi Paolo.  Yes I have pics, yes they're going up when I
                       get the chance.  But first I have to crack open
                       photoshop and filter out that nasty blue shift your
                       camera introduced into them.  Say, seeing as you live
                       across the hall from me, why the fuck are you asking
                       this on the motd?  Seems, um, inefficient.
              \_ Yeah, I saw that movie too.  It kicked ass. -dans
              \_ With a French flag on a flagpole, no less!
                \_ which one was that?
                   \_ Kiss of the Dragon
           \_ Someone told me to use SMPP.  Is that really universal? -op
        \_ http://www.ipsh.net
2002/5/18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:24879 Activity:nil
5/17    those spammers are pretty clever:
----
From FunkyMonkey2002@hotmail.com Sat May 18 01:04:57 2002
Date: 18 May 2002 07:39:31 -0000
From: FunkyMonkey2002@hotmail.com
To: me@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Yo!

Hi!
----
        I came real close to falling for this before i took a closer look..
____
Received: from <DEAD>smtp007.eli.aawmarketing.com<DEAD> ([208.187.130.7])
        by http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I5bjx46827
        for <me@soda.csua.berkeley.edu>; Fri, 17 May 2002 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
        (envelope-from FunkyMonkey2002@hotmail.com)
Received: (qmail 5821 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 2002 07:39:53 -0000
Date: 18 May 2002 07:39:31 -0000
Message-ID: <20020518073931.5820.qmail@smtp007.eli.aawmarketing.com>
2002/5/16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:24851 Activity:nil
5/16    I have a machine with several domains. If I want admin@foo.com and
        admin@bar.com to drop mail in two different locations, is this possible
        (using sendmail)?
        \_ virtusertable.  -jon
2002/5/11-12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW] UID:24797 Activity:very high
5/11    Netrek featured on Slashdot?
        \_ yes?
        \_ what is the differences between Netrek and the xtrek?
          \_ netrek used X protocol to display as an X client from the
          \_ xtrek used X protocol to display as an X client from the
             server to your display (workstation).  Needless to say since X
             protocol uses TCP and is pretty bandwidth hungry, it doesn't
             perform as well.  Netrek overcame this by doing all the X protocol
             graphics in a 'local' client program, and optimized all the
             network traffic in a really efficient combination of UDP packets
             and TCP sessions.  This enabled netrek to be played over great
             distances, and with fairly large network lag levels. -ERic
             \_ Thanks!  I remember eons ago I used to *HATE* people who
                play xtrek because they taken up all the resources while
                I was trying to do homework :)  --non-CS major geek
                \_ It is unlikely you're talking about xtrek.  No one's
                   played xtrek since 1988.  -tom
                   \_ oh right.  noone has been around longer or done
                      anything around here earlier than tom has.  all
                      bow to tom's 10cm ego.
                      \_ You're mad because he's right.  And tom's ego is huge.
                         \_ did tom ever graduate?
2002/4/21 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:24511 Activity:kinda low
4/20    Does anyone know how to rewrite the From address in nmh? I want
        my mail to say it came from user@cal.berkeley.edu rather than
        user@soda.berkeley.edu or user@mydomain.com. I've copied the
        components files into ~/Mail and added a Reply-to header, but
        some mail clients don't seem to respect that so I want to change
        the From header itself.
        \_ You sure they're seeing the From: header or the Reply-to: or
           some form of Sent: header?  You can kill the Reply/Send header
           in the config file.  To change the From: for real, use the source,
           Luke, or just do it by hand each time when you "comp"ose an email.
2002/4/12 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:24430 Activity:nil
4/11    I am about to fall asleep at work, what's an easy MUD to play
        without a MUD client and doesn't pk?
        \_ http://fire.pvv.org port 23
        \_ http://rom.org port 9000
2002/3/12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:24084 Activity:nil
3/11    What's soda's smtp server?
        \_ <DEAD>smtp.soda.berkeley.edu<DEAD>?
            \_ host -t MX http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu
http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu mail is handled (pri=20) by http://scotch.csua.berkeley.edu
http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu mail is handled (pri=10) by http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu
                (Soda is the primary, scotch is the secondary.  Soda also
                handles its own pop and imap services).  -crebbs
2002/3/7 [Computer/SW/Virus, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:24042 Activity:very high
3/6     What's the best p2p client out there now?  I don't want spyware, I
        don't want adware.  Windows prefered but *nix is fine, too.
        \_ for audio I really like Audiogalaxy (audiogalaxy.com).
           \_ just make sure they don't sneak adware in on you...
        \_ gnucleus.  Open-source gnutella client on windoz.
           It's very good stuff, I don't understand why anyone want to use
           commercial counterparts.
           http://gnucleus.sourceforge.net                --kngharv
           \_ Um, how about because the FastTrak clones have better search
              capabilities, hang on to in-progress downloads more consistently,
              are faster and get more hits? Gnutella-based clients are a poor
              cousin but you get what you pay for so I'm coping.
        \_ For FastTrak, I'm using Grokster but I was able to defeat the
           spyware using the procedure outlined here:
           http://www.project-insomnia.com/grokster.html
           For Gnutella, I use Gnucleus.
           \_ Thanks for the link!
2002/2/26 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:23978 Activity:moderate
2/25    pine is for booty bandits
        \_ mmmm.... boooooty.
2002/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:23922 Activity:high
2/20    http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/02/14/dot_net/index.html
        ".Net marks the dawn of the third age of computing -- embrace it."
        \_ "I get all my tech news from Salon.  Without Salon I couldn't run
           my software startup!  Salon tech news is just swell!"  -- Bill Gates
        \_ .Net question: Wasn't Java/JINI/etc/etc supposed to do all this?
           \_ .Net has pointers.
2002/2/15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23876 Activity:high
2/15    Soda slow? Blame THEM!

43437 suzuki    51   0 18408K  3096K RUN    388:45 43.70% 43.70% screen-3.9.9+i
63859 ax        51   0  4724K   904K RUN     24.7H 43.65% 43.65% trn
        \_ been trying to kill this all morning.  please kill.  thanks. -e
63859 ax        51   0  4724K   904K RUN     24.7H 43.65% 43.65% trn
        \_ root, please kill them!
2002/2/12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:23844 Activity:very high
2/11    [restoring previous question].  I've heard that it's illegal to take
        anything out of national parks.  Is this true?  I'm thinking of getting
        redwood and sequoia seeds out of their respective forests.  Thank.
        \_ Yes, it is. More to the point, what's wrong with your local
           nursery? --dim
           \_ Local nurseries don't carry the seeds that I want.  I've
              searched everywhere near the bay area.  Redwood seeds I can find,
              but not giant sequoia.  And after watching nova's program on
              the methuselah tree, I want some bristlecone pine seeds as well.
              \_ Forget about seeds. Just buy the tree already grown. You
                 *can* find giant sequoia in containers. I've seen it. I
                 hope you're not planning on tearing out a many-thousand
                 year-old bristlecone pine. You can get that from a
                 nursery, too. For giant sequoia:
                 <DEAD>www.monterybaynsy.com<DEAD>
                 I don't recommend the pine. Grows 4 feet in 14 years. Couldn't
                 find a *local* grower, but there is probably one. Otherwise,
                 ship from out-of-state. http://www.seedrack.com has seeds
                 for both trees, btw. --dim
        \_ Really?  I took a big pine cone from Yosemite, or more precisely,
           somewhere near the top of the 2nd waterfall of the Vernal Falls
           trail.  Now I have to bring it back.  :(
2002/2/11-12 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23835 Activity:kinda low
2/10    http://eveander.com/arsdigita-history
        A short history of Ars Digita. Just in case you are wondering what
        all those drones in Haas are trained to do.
        \_ Philip Greenspun is charming over the web and an asshole in
           person. He brought a lot of what happened on himself.
           And do you really think Eve would be a VP if she wasn't
           sleeping with him?
           \_ Give us all the intimate details!
              \_ just FYI, she would have been VP regardless... she was
                 one of ~5 founders! (all became VP's)  - former employee
                 \_ OK, ^VP^founder. Happy? Still accurate.
                    \_ Actually, its kind of funny you should mention that
                       because when the company was founded by her and
                       others, she wasn't sleeping with Philip... in fact,
                       she was sleeping with that guy Aure that she
                       mentions in the article.... which could have in
                       some way contributed to the fact that he was the
                       first of the old-school VP's to go.
                       \_ I bow to your superior knowledge on this subject.
                          Please keep the gossip coming. -- original replier
                          \_ What else would you like to know? :)
                             \_ Um, sexual escapades, screaming matches,
                                bitchy comments made behind people's backs,
                                love triangles, you know, the works.
                             Here's a juicy morsel:
                             There is a Yahoo group called ex-aD of former
                             employees. While this is mostly disgruntled
                             programmer and admins, some former managment
                             also sub- scribes. Recently, the ever-charming
                             philg himself posted a message announcing that
                             he just bought a new cessna-type plane with the
                             $7M he got from the lawsuit, and is now
                             planning to fly to alaska, and asking if
                             anyone would like to come with him. Needless-
                             to-say, the responses were quite humorous.
           \_ Well, he takes good pictures too.
           \_ Sleeping with your underlings is not only highly unprofessional,
              it exposes the company to sexual harassment lawsuits. Sounds
              like Greenspun had it coming.
        \_ Check out the comment by Bay Area electronic musician Tim Perkis.
           Right on the money.
2002/2/9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23823 Activity:nil
2/8     mutt-enthusiasts: I've been trying to find a way to
        attach my .sig as a separate unit _after_ encryption. It
        seems like mutt should be able to do this but the only
        things I've found is the variable "signature".
2002/2/5-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23780 Activity:high
2/3     I admit it, I use pine (old habits die hard). I'm always getting
        mail with attachments or mail that's in both plain text and HTML.
        is there a way in pine to take an e-mail message and delete just
        the attachment part (or one of the attachments if there are several)
        but keep other parts of the e-mail message intact?
        \_ All these things and more are possible with mutt.  Switch, then
           we'll talk.
           \_ Hey mutt zealot guy, I was using mutt for a little while and
              stopped because I didn't find something that allows for
              grabbing email addresses into my addressbook. I did RTFM.
              I read several manuals and webpages but perhaps I'm just
              dense. Can you point me to how to incorporate such a
              capability?
              \_ i don't know if you need the next two lines,
                 but I use them:
                 set alias_file="~/.mutt.aliases"
                 source "~/.mutt.aliases"
                 then i hit "a" to add someone to my aliases.
                 easy, huh?
        \_ You don't have to switch to mutt.  Just switch to anything that
           isn't pine.  This thread has 3 hours to live then it gets blasted.
           \_ Then I'll replace it. There's an actual answered question with
              useful information above.
              \_ Yes, the thread I saved from someone else's axe.  You're
                 welcome.
           \_ I use M$ Outlook 2000 and I can't find a way to do this either.
              \_ Right click on address in header, select "add to contacts"
                 \_ I meant I can't find a way to delete just the attachment
                    part(s) of the e-mail message, like what the original
                    poster wants to do in Pine.
           \_ Why is Pine "crap", because it's somewhat easy to use at first?
                \_ it has very limited functionality, screws up mail spools,
                   is extremely slow and bloated compared to more reasonable
                   mail clients, and, well, is crap.  -tom
                        \_ Ah Ha. Thanks. One question: With your preferred
                           mail program, if you are composing a message and
                           you get disconnected from soda, do you loose your
                           message?
                           \_ Nope. See also: screen(1).
                           \_ This is really a question about your editor, not
                              your mail program.  -tom
                           \_ One O in 'lose' as it relates to the Bad
                              News Bears.  Two O's in 'loose' as it
                              relates to your mom.
                           \_ And two O's as in "dictionary.com".
        \_ While viewing the message, "v", select the attachment, and then "d"
           \_ How do you get pine to actually expunge the attachment
              afterward? -!op
              \_ save the message.  you can save to the same folder.
                 attachments marked as deleted will not get copied along
2002/1/25-26 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23671 Activity:very high
1/25    Anyone here still play muds?  Which ones and what client do you use?
        \_ Muds don't work over cable modem.
        \_ Portal is available from http://gameaxle.com. Runs on Windows. Is quite
           good. better than tf (tiny fugue)
        \_ batmud, circlemud, realms, 3k.
        \_ zmud
2002/1/16 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:23574 Activity:high
1/15    In pine, how do I change the Reply-to: header?
        \_ in pine, the answer to all such question is "edit the .pinerc file".
2002/1/11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:23537 Activity:nil
1/11    mutt: I am wondering what specific capabilities people like about
        it. I have read a number of web pages and haven't come up with
        much other than slander for other programs.
2018/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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