| WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ | |
 http://csua.com/feed/ | |
| ||||||
| 12/25 |
| 2013/4/9-5/18 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:54647 Activity:nil |
4/8 What's a good free e-mail provider? I don't want to use Gmail,
Yahoo, Outlook, or any of those sites with features I never use that
track my personal info and keep changing their interface. I want just
simple e-mail without privacy issues or all the baggage these large,
for-profit companies are adding. I might even be willing to pay.
Recommendations?
\_ http://well.com. Not free though.
http://www.well.com/mail.html
\_ soda has been very consistent for the past few decades,
why don't you use soda?
\_ I thought soda stopped hosting mail years ago. -- !OP
\_ http://mailinator.com -- completely insecure, but great for throwaway
email accounts. |
| 2012/10/15-12/4 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:54501 Activity:nil |
10/15 What's the soda email client these days?
\_ Don't know. /usr/bin/mail hasn't been working for a while.
\_ forward to Gmail.
\_ mutt works for me |
| 2011/4/6-20 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix, Industry/Startup] UID:54078 Activity:nil |
4/6 My company is evaluating version control systems. Our two candidates
are Perforce and Subversion. Anyone worked with both and have good
arguments one way or the other? (These are the only two options we
have.) We're most interested in client performance, ease of use, and
reasonable branching.
\_ I'll be 'that guy'. If perforce and subversion are optins, why isn't
git? Having not used perforce, I can't say much about it, but svn is
grossly insufficient for my branching and checkpointing needs. I
cannot use svn anymore without git-svn.
\_ svn+trac = nice. git-svn+trac = OH THE HORROR.
\_ Corporate standards. (Yes, it's a stupid reason.) -op
\_ In what way is svn insufficient for your branching needs? All of
the claims I see about svn not supporting branching well predate
the merge support added in svn 1.5. I've not used svn and so am
not able to tell to what extent that merge support works.
\_ I have used P4win and the mods P4py and what not. I thought they
wre great at core focus, but lousy at being customizeable. You will
probably go with Perforce tho since the app looks nice on winboxen.
git for windows is knida amateur looking.
\_ There is also P4-Emacs at http://p4el.sourceforge.net which
I've used for a few years. -- yuen
\_ State your eng size. This will be one of the most decisive factors.
Perforce for 5 employees? FORGET IT.
Subversion for 1000 employees? FORGET IT.
\_ Try bugzilla on 1000 employees. Ugh. the horror.
I've used p4, svn, and git. All have advantages and disadvantages.
Use the wrong tool for the wrong size, you'll be bitching all the way.
What people don't realize is that there is something else much more
important than what you use-- a code-review process.
\_ We are a group of about 50 developers right now, with plans to
expand in the coming years and to manage more of our internal
tools through version control.
We do code reviews, although we're currently re-evaluating our
tool choices there as well. Our options are Crucible and Code
Collaborator. -op
\_ Go with SVN. You sound like small shop. |
| 2010/7/29-8/9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53905 Activity:nil |
7/29 How do I get pine to work with mail? I have 1900 mails and I want
to delete them. Or is there a better one to use? never learned
'mail'..
\_ mutt
\_ so why doesn't alpine work? What setting should I use to have
it work with my csua mail folder? Thanks!
\_ Use of maildir and apparently a still-broken SSL cert for mail
...seriously, alpine just doesn't support Maildir.
\_ Reply from root. At least I'm not the only one having issue.
As far as accessing mail, your mailspool is still accessible via NFS
on soda: /var/mail/username
Of course, this mount is only accessible via soda,
so if you're not using alpine on soda, you'll need to find a different
way.
I'd give you more details on configuring alpine to read mailspools,
but I'm off work soon, and I won't be near a computer for a while
afterwards. You should be able to google it - sorry for not having
clear instructions handy.
\_ Thanks for the detailed reply. I was able to delete my mails via
mutt. Nice program. -op |
| 2010/4/7-8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53776 Activity:nil |
4/7 postfix equivalent of 'sendmail -bt' ? |
| 2010/3/10-30 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53751 Activity:nil |
3/10 What email program do people in Cal CS use nowadays? In my school days
people used /usr/bin/mail, then RMail in emacs, then VMail in emacs.
After my days people used Elm, Pine, Mutt (I forgot which order). In
my first two jobs we could tell the seniority of fellow engineers based
on which email program they use at work, because everyone used what
they used to use in their school years. In my last two jobs though,
everyone was forced to use Outlook.
\_ isn't it all about Gmail and other web based mail apps now?
\_ I only use mail/mutt/elm these days to test outgoing mail
and view headers for production machines, kind of sad.
\_ The vast majority of students use web interfaces to email almost
exclusively. -tom
\_ This. Most everyone uses gmail or squirrelmail, then some use
(that piece of shit) Thunderbird or Outlook.
\_ Then does the CS Dept. still give out class accounts on UNIX
machines? -- OP
\_ Yes they do. And for email inst advises mutt or pine.
\_ I use mutt to read gmail.
\_ I still use VM, but it doesn't work so well with newer emacsen. |
| 2009/9/10-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53353 Activity:nil |
9/9 What should outbound mail server be when reading mail from soda
with IMAP? Is there a FAQ?
\_ It's <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD> (same as for incoming mail).
\_ "The message could not be sent because connecting to SMTP
server <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD> failed. The server may
be unavailable or is refusing SMTP connections."
I tried TLS, SSL, and plain old SMTP.
\_ Are you using port 587? Port 25 won't work.
\_ No, I was not using 587. Now I am and I get the same
error. |
| 2009/7/22-29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53183 Activity:nil |
7/22 How many people here use rss/atom, and how many people don't use it
at all? If you use it, what client do you use? I'll start.
\_ mix of google reader and safari subscription -kchang
\_ I go to <DEAD>blogger.com<DEAD> and http://livejournal.com
\_ I use NetNewsWire on mac. |
| 2009/7/7-16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53120 Activity:nil |
7/7 What values do I use to get alpine to read my inbox? It says the folder
can't be found. thanks -scottyg
\_ Still no love, I don't have an inbox. Just sent mail. Is this
happening for everyone? -scottyg
\_ Try now. |
| 2009/7/2-16 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:53106 Activity:nil |
7/2 Is imaps working? What are the hostnames of the "incoming and
outgoing mail servers" for CSUA email, and what kind of options
should one set?
I also noticed that we seem
\_ Setup yer .forward or .procmailrc for now. I'm at a loss, too.
\_ <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD>. Using SSH (on default port 993) like before.
\_ <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD>. Over SSL (on default port 993) like before.
\_ alpine doesnt seem to work. i try
Folders on <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD>:993 in cur
but get timeouts .. using cur for "inbox" folder |
| 2009/6/30-7/15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53095 Activity:nil |
6/29 Do I need to enable pine?
\_ Try alpine. Pine isn't supported anymore --steven
\_ alpine not working. are there any config instructions
for using alpine with csua?
\_ Try using imaps as described in a future posting ^ |
| 12/25 |
| 2009/6/1-5 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:53067 Activity:nil |
5/31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY \_ postings with signatures should be deleted. \_ fucking lame. don't waste your time. \_ this is for salespeople --brain |
| 2008/12/18-2009/1/7 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:52279 Activity:nil |
12/18 Campus USENET service will be terminated on 12/31.
http://ls.berkeley.edu/mail/micronet/2008/1608.html
\_ I emailed RobR to tell him. -ausman
\_ The CSUA is considering asking campus to allow us to run NNTP for
ucb.class.*, as bSpace sucks major major ass. Thoughts? --t
\_ That's noble, but maybe the effort would be better spent
writing a web-based bulletin board that doesn't suck?
\_ Big difference in outlay of effort IMO. No. --t
\_ You should do this, if you have the inclination.
\_ I just emailed Michael Sinatra, the person who sent the
reminder. Who else should I email? --t
\_ Surely you can come up with something better than NNTP and
Usenet, even if bSpace isn't it. -tom
\_ Seconded. Get on with the Web 2.0 bandwagon and forget about
gopher, mozilla 0.1, and nntp usenet. It's like people in the
70s trying to design a computer using tubes all over again.
The world move forward. -kchang
\_ Sarcasm, I hope. Web 2.0 the marketing strategy is a sham.
Web 2.0 the technology (AJAX, etc.), OTOH, I can sort of get
behind. --t
Web 2.0 the technology (AJAX, etc.), OTOH, I can sort of
get behind. --t
\_ But what's wrong with USENET/NNTP? It's served the classes
wonderfully, isn't broken, and there are plenty of programs
that *others* maintain. In fact, this is exactly why bSpace's
attempt at web-based bulletin board sucks so hard. I can't run
a desktop client/script to check bSpace forum messages, and a
replacement of sufficient complexity, similarity, and
portability would essentially be reimplementing NNTP, badly and
haphazardly in such a way that few classes would care to use,
as it would not be integrated into their system as bSpace is.
Sorry alumni, replacing a shitty new system with a shitty newer
system is a shitty idea. --t
portability would essentially be reimplementing NNTP, badly
and haphazardly in such a way that few classes would care to
use, as it would not be integrated into their system as
bSpace is. Sorry alumni, replacing a shitty new system with
a shitty newer system is a shitty idea. --t
\_ What's wrong with USENET is that the distribution mechanism
sucks and the signal to noise ratio is effectively zero.
That doesn't matter so much for ucb.class.*, but then you
get into the fact that the interface sucks, too. What
percentage of students in the relevant classes do you
think actually pay attention to ucb.class.*? -tom
\_ I'd say 80% or more in the classes that use it. No lie.
There's a very *low* amount of noise. The CS188 amd CS61C
classes typically run into the several thousand posts.--t
There's a very *low* amount of noise. The CS188 amd
CS61C classes typically run into the several thousand
posts.--t
\_ How much do you know about USENET? Groups like ucb.class.*
don't really have a home or a host. Several non-Berkeley NNTP
servers propagate the ucb.* hierarchy, although most do not.
All you need is access to a free USENET server that accepts
these groups. While there is value in CSUA running such a server,
ucb.* isn't dead without it. More important is official buy-in.
If the teaching staff for a class doesn't promote the newsgroups,
they won't get used, regardless of how they're supported.
It might be worth asking CNS (or whoever) if they can provide
you with any data on usage of the ucb.* groups.
\_ I'm pretty sure teaching staff will go along with NNTP if
there's someone supporting it. There are peripheral
benefits, such as being able to legitimately plug the CSUA
in all of the CS classes with active newsgroups. --t
\_ No more alt.stories.* on soda. One fewer reason to log on.
\_ alt.stories.*? I do not know of what you speak. Explain? --t
\_ I think he means alt.sex.stories.
\_ I am all for more reasons for http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu to exist.
Undergrads, PLEASE host NNTP for ucb.eecs! ok tnx.
\_ God damn, one of the main reason I log on to csua is to
browse the news group. Call me old fashioned but I still
like the tin interface better than anything else. This is
sad. |
| 2008/11/18-23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:52031 Activity:nil |
11/18 Say I've written a pcap-based program which pulls out the message
body of unencrypted SMTP sessions and writes those into file1 file2
file3 ... fileN. Is there a simple way to get a spam-score for
each of those [based on message body, not SMTP headers, sender
reputations etc]. I'd like to have a program warn me if some
IP address inside my institution starts sending say >10 suspect
emails in a small window of time [usually indicates a infected
windows box, but also dont want addresses in our range blacklisted].
So the question boils down to: can I get spam assassin to return
the "spam score" of an arbitrary file from a shell script.
\- I see a perl project called "babycart" ... any other ideas? |
| 2008/11/11-26 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:51911 Activity:nil |
11/11 My RAID box has an email alert setting that requires an SMTP
server. Are there non-encrypted smtp servers I can use?
\_ yes |
| 2008/10/21-27 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:51618 Activity:nil |
10/21 Outlook question: Is there a way to configure Outlook such that when I
reply to a message, the "Sent:" time in the original mail will contain
timezone information? I'm working on a project with a team in China,
and it's often confusing which timezones the "Sent:" times refer to in
an e-mail chain. Thanks. |
| 2008/4/30-5/2 [Computer/SW/Mail, Industry/Startup] UID:49859 Activity:nil |
4/30 pidgin developers hate selves, they fork it:
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/30/1822237&from=rss |
| 2008/4/3-9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:49661 Activity:nil |
4/3 In "p4 client", modtime/nomodtime sets the file timestamp to
either the modification time from submitting client or the time that
the file is fetched. Is there a way to set the file timestamp to
the time that the file was submitted, like what ClearCase does? Thx.
\_ How is this different from the modtime option? Are you concerned
about clock skew or timezone differences?
\_ Say someone has a local file with a last-modification date of
1/1/2001 in the local file system. He submits it on 4/2/2008 and
I sync to it on 4/3/2008. Now, "nomodtime" will make the last-
modification of my copy of the file 4/3/2008, while "modtime"
will make it 1/1/2001. I want 4/2/2008. -- OP |
| 2008/3/18-21 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:49483 Activity:nil |
3/18 I would like to ask for help exporting my mail from outlook. I tried
using File->Import and Export->Export to a file but that either
did not work (PST usage is disabled on this computer) or didn't bring
along attachments. Does anyone know how to do this? Thanks.
\_ Check google. There's a bunch of free and cheap tools out there.
There's one in particular I can't recall right now but I'll post
if I remember it later. |
| 2008/1/28-2/2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:49023 Activity:nil |
1/28 When I run Thunderbird to use my soda mail, I can read mail but I can't
send. It gives an error "Sending of message failed. The message
could not be sent because connecting to SMTP server
<DEAD>mead.CSUA.Berkeley.edu<DEAD> failed. ......" Is there some special setup
that I need to configure in order to send mail? Thanks.
\_ Just use your ISP's SMTP server to send mail. Soda probably
only allows sending from berkeley domains. |
| 2007/10/24-25 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/P2P] UID:48429 Activity:kinda low |
10/24 is there a command line bittorrent client that lets me download
selective files out of a torrent, instead of the entire torrent?
I have this torrent "Busty Conquests of Wendy Whoppers" that contains
10+ hardcore clips of Wendy Whoppers and her 32GGG breasts, but I
think I have 3 of these already. I don't want to destroy my ratio
downloading gigantic breast porn I already have. thanks.
\_ ratio? what's the point of doing ratios using bittorrent to
download? wouldn't they want as many as possible downloaders?
btw, 32ggg sounds like a medical condition, not hot.
\_ My website of 32GGG TIT PORN depends on ratios. So if I download
3 gigs, I have to leave my computer on until I upload 3 gigs.
but if I only want 100 megs out of the torrent, like 2 movies
of 32GGG TITS BEING POUNDED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER,
I can use a graphical bittorrent client to choose which files
I want. Is there a command line bittorrent client that does
this?
\_ I wasn't asking about your fetish. I was asking why a
torrent site would implement ratios.
\_ It's so people dont kill off their torrents immediately
after getting their data. This helps people who come
along in the future and join the torrent.
\_ So if you d/l 1 gig, is re-upping that same file to
others good for your ratio or you need to u/l a new
file to the network?
\_ I need to keep my ratio of uploading
OH MY GOD ENORMOUS UNHOLY TITS SO BIG THEY HAVE
BACK PROBLEMS JESUS CHRIST THOSE SUCKERS MUST BE 15
POUNDS EACH WHERE DO YOU EVEN FIND A BRA THAT
BIG???? at a 1.0 ratio, or i can't download
new torrents handled by this tracker. |
| 2007/8/21-22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:47698 Activity:nil |
8/21 Would someone please post the IMAP and SMTP setting for soda email
please? thanks |
| 2007/4/17-19 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:46338 Activity:nil |
4/17 Is IMAP up? If not, how can I get pine/mutt to read my new
maildir-based mail folder?
\_ Pine and mutt both have native maildir support -- they should be
able to access your inbox without any special configuration. You
can also use IMAP if you want, but only the secure version (imaps),
Let me know if these aren't working for you. --mconst
and you need to use <DEAD>mail.csua.berkeley.edu<DEAD> as the server. Let me
know if these aren't working for you. --mconst |
| 2007/4/5-7 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:46203 Activity:nil |
4/5 IMAP questions
1. when I IMAP, I got this error:
"the current comand did not succeed.
The mail server responded: Out of disk space"
what did I do wrong?
2. is SMTP the same server as IMAP server?
\_ 1) uh, your server is out of disk space. it is possible but
unlikely that your server is telling you you're over quota.
2) SMTP is the protocol mail servers use to talk to each other
to transmit mail (very simplified). IMAP is what your client
uses to talk to your mail server to retrieve mail. IMAP is
different from POP (which also is a client protocol) in that
POP downloads your mail to the client where you're expected to
deal with, while IMAP lets you have folders and such on the
server for long term storage. This allows you to read your
mail from different computers and still see the same folders
while POP is limited to whatever is still in your Inbox.
Hope that helped. |
| 2007/3/4-6 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW/Memory] UID:45865 Activity:nil 54%like:45917 |
3/4 trn crashes on me upon startup:
"*** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x08091618 ***
Abort"
Any idea? Thanks. |
| 2007/2/11-13 [Computer/SW/Mail, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:45709 Activity:nil |
2/11 \_ Is POP back up? Haven't got it to work since Soda got back
up. (SSL http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu port 995)
\_ Legitimately curious, why use POP when you IMAP is available to you?
-dans
\_ Uh, isn't IMAP still down? I still can't access it
-pmw
\_ I neither know nor care. I forward mail off soda to a box
where I run IMAP. :) -dans
\_ In the past (1997) when I used IMAP, it would mark my messages
as "read" when I read them on my client machine. I don't like
this, I like to have the messages as two distinct instances, one
on Soda and one on my home machine. If I read it on my client I
want it to still show and unread on Soda. Also, IMAP is more for
people with always on connections, which I don't have. That's
why I prefer offline processing (Pop) vs interactive processing
(IMAP).
\_ Hmm, I don't understand why you'd want things you've read not
to be marked as read, but if that's how you work, more power
to you. It's worth noting that many modern IMAP clients, eg
OS X's Mail.app, have excellent offline modes, which serves
the same purposes as POP, but with IMAP's richer semantics.
-dans
\_ Thanks, maybe I'll check it out again. 10 yrs of software
development may have fixed my intial hang-ups. |
| 2007/2/10 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/Companies/Google] UID:45706 Activity:nil |
2/10 Yay! Say goodbye to MSN and Yahoo!
http://tinyurl.com/tbrky |
| 2007/2/8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45686 Activity:nil |
2/7 Hi, I updated the following:
inbox-path=/var/mail/$USER
in my .pinerc. Now I start pine, my inbox is always empty.
even I sent test emails to this account. I don't receive them.
I thought that is what we needed to get mail in the new inbox. |
| 2007/2/7-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45682 Activity:high |
2/7 Has anyone got Pine to work in the new CSUA environment? I
didn't see anything in the FAQ that described this. When I open
up Pine I get:
[Can't open /var/mail/theeric: not a selectable folder]
When I try to do anything (i.e move up or down with arrow, hit I
for mail), I get another error:
[Command " " not defined for this screen. Use ? for help
\_ I don't understand why anyone would sit down at a shell for
the first time and choose the most broken and least functional
mail client given so many other quality choices.
\_ I use /usr/bin/mail. -- !OP
\_ Maybe because your claim that it's "most broken" is idiotic?
Maybe because it's easy to work and you don't have to read any
documentation to use it effectively?
\_ There are lots of easy to use mail clients that require no
reading. Judging from our local population either pine is
very hard to use or pine users are much less intelligent
since the overwhelming majority of mail client problems on
the motd are pine related going back many years. <s> Sorry
if you're one of the very few pine genius gurus out there and
got "offended". </sarcasm> The best thing root@soda could
do for the mail users here is delete the pine install. Anyone
clued enough to install their own can figure out the rest,
while those who can't figure it out can use something better.
\_ Why don't you name a few that's not 'broken'?
\_ I'll ignore your poor grammar and name one: mutt.
For the record, I haven't run a command line mail
reader in years, these days I use Mail.app. But that
doesn't change the fact that mutt is a spectacularly
better command line mail client than pine. -dans
\_ PP's claim that pine is the most broken mail client, while
hyperbolic, is pretty close to the mark. Unfortunately, Mark
Crispin hangs like an albatross over all UW mail related
software including pine and IMAP. In the case of pine, he
merely actively contributes to its sucking. In the case of
IMAP, what he has done is far worse since, last I checked,
UW-IMAP is the RFC reference implementation, and he has
single-handedly crippled numerous useful IMAP features while
slowing its adoption and driving back the day when POP is
just a bad memory.
cf: http://www.courier-mta.org/fud
-dans
\_ I got this error message a few days ago, since then, I
removed my .procmailrc, and now pine seems to work fine.
However I can't get to any of the mail files on
/var/mail/$USER. I do see incoming mails...
\_ I figured it out, you need to create "cur, new, tmp" in
/var/mail/$USER directory, then pine and mutt will work fine.
\_ Except that the new mail isn't being delivered to those dirs.
\_ any idea what those dirs are for? They are all empty, new mails
are in /var/mail/$USER folder, but pine does not see them.
\_ I have no idea where pine is getting my mails, my
/var/mail/$USER directory is empty with the exception
of these 3 directories, yet pine/mutt says my inbox
has X mails.
\_ It's getting them from those directories. There's no
question about that. However, that does not seem to
be where the mailer is delivering mail. At least,
my mail is just being stuffed into /var/mail/$USER/msg.????
and I am not using procmail or anything else. What
is the default behavior supposed to be for mail
delivery now?
\_ in our .pinerc, add a line like this:
maildir-location=/var/username/brett
maildir-location=/var/mail/$USER
maildir-location=/var/username/mail
\_ Thanks everyone who helped with the Pine issues. I'm always
pleasantly surprised when the motd helps those that don't live &
breath UNIX daily. It's a nice change from the condescending
attitude you generally tend to get at UNIX boards. I was able to
fix Pine by:
1) creating "cur, new, tmp" in /var/mail/$USER directory
2) removing my .procmailrc file
3) removing my .forward which had a spam forward in place
(procmail) |
| 2007/2/5-7 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45667 Activity:low |
2/5 How do I check my soda mail? mail, pine, both returns error.
mail: .... is a directory
pine: error...
\_ mailx has been replaced with a Maildir-aware version; it should
work correctly now. Pine should work using the default config as
of last week; look at /csua/soda-changes.2007.01 for a detailed
discussion. Short answer: set your inbox-path to /var/mail/$USER.
-- darch
\_ Mailx finds my old mail in /var/mail/$USER/cur but the new mail
is spooling to /var/mail/$USER.
\_ mutt.
\_ mh |
| 2007/2/5-7 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:45666 Activity:nil |
2/5 Can someone install Elm? Thanks! |
| 2007/1/30-2/3 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45624 Activity:nil 76%like:45619 |
1/30 I can't get mutt to read my maildir dir. What am I doing wrong?
set mbox_type=Maildir
\_ mine works just fine with MAIL set to /var/mail/user
Also does anyone know the correct settings to get Mail.app to play
nice with IMAP and soda mail?
\_ Advanced: IMAP Path Prefix: "mail"; Port: "993"; "check" Use SSL;
Authentication: Password. Haven't tried using CSUA's
SMTP server since the *last* time soda came back up.
\_ any idea what the path prefix would be for Thunderbird IMAP?
(haven't been able to get anything to work for IMAP server
directory) |
| 2007/1/30 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45619 Activity:nil 76%like:45624 |
1/30 I can't get mutt to read my maildir dir. What am I doing wrong?
\_ mine works just fine with MAIL set to /var/mail/user
Also does anyone know the correct settings to get Mail.app to play
nice with IMAP and soda mail?
\_ Advanced: IMAP Path Prefix: "mail"; Port: "993"; "check" Use SSL;
Authentication: Password. Haven't tried using CSUA's
SMTP server since the *last* time soda came back up.
\_ any idea what the path prefix would be for Thunderbird IMAP?
(haven't been able to get anything to work for IMAP server
directory) |
| 2007/1/28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45609 Activity:nil |
1/28 I followed the instructions for unfiltered mail to recover my old
mail but do I need to change any configuration settings in pine to
be able to read it? I'm getting this error message when I try to use
pine: "Can't open inbox: not a selectable folder". |
| 2007/1/27-2/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45602 Activity:nil |
1/27 I tried following the instructions for setting up pine. When I go
to change inbox-path, it first asks me what server, and then what
folder. What do I put for each value. I tried several combinations
and nothing worked.
\_ Just edit your ".pinerc" manually. Search for "inbox-path"
and put the value "/var/mail/yourlogin". That worked for me.
\_ Thanks. It worked! -op |
| 2007/1/26-2/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45599 Activity:nil |
1/26 Pine maildir patch, or root cookie. Prefer former. --linxu
\_ Use mutt. ;) Oh, alright.. it looks like the pine that's
installed already has the patch. Is there something it's
failing to do? -- darch
\_ Handle maildir by default? At least some people will
need instructions on how to use pine on new-soda.
\_ Yes. Please help.
\_ Added instructions to /csua/soda-changes.2007.01. Short
version: Set inbox-path to "/var/mail/$USER". -- darch
\_ Update: In light of the fact that there exist users who
don't read motd, /etc/pine.conf has been changed to make
this work for everyone. |
| 2006/9/9-11 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:44331 Activity:nil |
9/9 After rotating my /var/log/mail.* files and restarting postfix,
I no longer have any mail log files in /var/log/mail.*! Is there
something else I have to do for postfix? I never had this problem
when I was using sendmail. Please help! -learning unix
\_ man -k syslog |
| 2006/8/29-31 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:44187 Activity:kinda low |
8/29 What SMTP settings should I be enabling/disabling for soda? I can
receive csua mails over IMAP on my treo just fine, but I always
get relay denied errors when sending outside http://csua.berkeley.edu.
\_ Dunno the answer, but I have the same problem. I ended up
using Gmail's SMTP server. The only thing is that you'll have
register your CSUA email account with Gmail so that it'll let
you send mail on your behalf.
\_ What do you need to do to "register your CSUA email
account with gmail"?
\_ Log in and go to "Settings" and goto "Accounts" tab.
Basically register your CSUA email. It'll do an email
verification thing. After that, Gmail' SMTP will
relay email with CSUA email as your "From:" field.
\_ enable authentication
\_ Have you actually tried this yourself? I have, and it doesn't
work with my client at least. For now, I'm using the cell
network's ISP, which does not support SSL/TLS. It(cingular's
SMTP for wireless) also doesn't require authentication, which
may be the reason blocks of cingular cell IP blocks are on many
anti-spam databases.
\_ sorry, no. I don't use soda for email. But I just tried
it and it looks like there's no support for AUTH, even SSL'd
AUTH LOGIN
503 5.3.3 AUTH not available
bother root
\_ If you have an answer, please provide specific steps and
settings. I also haven't been able to get SMTP working
with either SSL or TLS; I keep getting relaying-denied
errors. |
| 2006/8/6-10 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43923 Activity:nil |
8/5 In pine, how do you select all the messages in a folder and then
add it to another folder?
\_ Section 11 of the following URL:
http://www.decf.berkeley.edu/help/mail/pine-imapssl.html
\_ ; (select)
A (all)
A (apply...)
S (save)
\_ Try Q. -proud American
\_ BTW If you get the error message "Command ';' not defined for
this screen," you will need to enable the Select feature. To
enable the "Select" feature in Pine, type "M" for Main Menu,
then "S" for Setup, and "C" for Config. Type "W" for WhereIs,
and enter "aggregate" as the word to find. This will bring you
to the option named "enable-aggregate-command-set." Type "X" to
Set this option, then "E" to Exit Setup. Type "Y" to commit
the changes. This will bring you back to the Main Menu. Type
"I" to access your inbox's Message Index, and then ";".
\_ http://www.fas.harvard.edu/computing/kb/kb0869.html
As the previous poster said, type ";" for Criteria. You will be
prompted to choose from the Select criteria listed at the bottom of
the window. For instance, to select all messages from jharvard,
type ";" for Select, "T" for Text, "F" for From, and then
"jharvard". The messages that have bee n selected will have an
"X" next to them.
\_ That didn't work for me. -newbie |
| 2006/8/6-10 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43922 Activity:nil |
8/5 I just want to take this fine opportunity and say, FUCK sendmail.
It is difficult to configure and its debugging facility totally
blows. I can't believe how braindead sendmail config is, not to
mention its sucky security. Fuck sendmail, use postfix instead.
I got postfix running in a jiffy and I didn't even have to go
through 800 pages of sendmail manpage. Fuck sendmail and
its braindead author. Praise thy new MTA master, postfix.
\_ You are way out of line, buddy. <DEAD>-Sendmail.com<DEAD>
\_ oh yes, please fuck me! i need you inside me -sendmail |
| 2006/8/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43915 Activity:nil |
8/4 Dear sendmail virtusertable gurus, please help.
Let's say my domain name is <DEAD>csua1.com<DEAD> and I'd like it to handle mail
for <DEAD>csua2.com<DEAD> as well. The virtusertable (which I ran "makemap hash"
on to generate virtusertable.db) contains the followings:
a@csua1.com joe
b@csua2.com joe
When I send mail to a@csua1.com, it is correctly sent to joe. However
when I send mail to b@csua2.com, it complains that b@csua1.com
(instead of b@csua2.com) doesn't exist. Somehow, when it can't
find an email for <DEAD>csua2.com<DEAD>, it resolves the host name back to
<DEAD>csua1.com<DEAD>. Why is this happening?
\_ is <DEAD>csua2.com<DEAD> a proper MX record or a CNAME?
\_ % host -t mx <DEAD>csua2.com<DEAD> http://ns1.otherdomain.com
<DEAD>csua2.com<DEAD> MX 10 <DEAD>mail.csua2.com<DEAD> |
| 2006/8/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43914 Activity:nil |
8/4 are exim-virtuser-person and sendmail-virtuser-person the same? |
| 2006/8/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:43910 Activity:nil |
8/4 After trying to get sendmail's virtusertable to work for several
hours, I've given up and decided to use exim4 instead. I've followed
the following URL for exim4's equivalent of virtusertable, but now
wondering how I can specify "error: User Known" and email
nullification inside my new /etc/exim/virtusertable?
http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20030127/049071.html
Please help, thanks. -noob
\_ I don't know. -proud American |
| 2006/8/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43903 Activity:low |
8/4 In sendmail on Linux, how do I write a rule which will quietly discard
e-mail sent to nonexistent users? Default behavior is to bounce
the mail back, but in the case of SPAM the From: address doesn't
exist. I'd rather just toss such mail.
\_ This may bring other problems with it, but you may wish to
consider greylisting. It simply replies to each mail with a 405
(try again later). On the second try, the mail's delivered; most
spam doesn't hack this. On the other hand, it could fail to
deliver mail from misconfigured mailers. -John
\_ Sendmail can tell reject mail during the SMTP session for non-
existent users prior to accepting the message (therefore, you don't
generate a bounce -- the sender does [should]). If this isn't
feasible (this is a mail relay, etc.), try something that does
sender-address verification. (spamilter, mimedefang, etc.) or
bring over a list of "valid" users (timed sync, or ldap lookups)
\_ Do chmod 666. -proud American
\_ milter-ahead from <DEAD>snertsoft.com/milter.info<DEAD> -Jon |
| 2006/8/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43896 Activity:nil |
8/3 I'm trying to add virtual forwarding, by adding a file called
/etc/mail/virtusertable that forwards from user "test@mydomain.com"
to "joeblow". I also added the line "FEATURE(`virtusertable')dnl"
in sendmail.mc. Lastly, I did a make, then restarted sendmail. However
it is not working. How do I diagnose the problem?
\_ I have a similar setup. From my config I also have a
VIRTUSER_DOMAIN entry directly after the FEATURE(`virtusertable')
entry:
FEATURE(`virtusertable',`hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable.db')dnl
VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`foo.com http://bar.com')dnl
\_ Yes I have the exact same thing. After running
echo '3,0 test@mydomain.com' | sendmail -bt
I'm expecting it to return joeblow but instead it is
returning "test". My biggest problem is I don't know
where to look for error messages for proper diagnosis.
\_ Check your mailspool. -proud American |
| 2006/7/22-24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43762 Activity:nil |
7/22 Is there a way to send out a mass mail (using pine or gmail) such
that each recipient receives the email with their own address in
the "To:" field, but that doesn't show any of the other
receipients? Of course, I could use Bcc, but then each
receipient's email address doesn't show up in the header they
receive, and the mail might then be filtered as spam, since it's
not "To" them.
\_ foreach
\_ I was going to do this, but I want the Reply-To field different
from the address I'm sending from. How can I set the Reply-To
field from a command line mail command?
\_ If you want complete control over the headers, just write
up the mail exactly as you want it to appear and run it
through "sendmail -t".
\_ Thanks. I'll try that. -op
\_ another alternative is use nc localhost smtp
\_ Will using sendmail like this make the email look funny,
being that it wasn't created in pine, outlook, gmail,
yahoo, etc? Is there a chance such mail could be
filtered as spam when received? I sent such mail to
yahoo and gmail not problem, but not sure if stricter
spam filtering might think it's spam. |
| 2006/7/20-22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43747 Activity:low |
7/20 How can I get IMAP over SSL to work (I'm using Mail.app)?
I've set the port to 465, checked SSL, set auth to Password,
and entered my username and password. I don't get an error but my
messages don't get delivered. TIA.
\_ derrr, corrected, I meant SMTP (outbound).
\_ 993/tcp open imaps
Try 993? 465 doesn't appear open on soda. --michener
\_ 465 is SMTP over SSL outbound. Soda does not do SMTP/SSL
but rather has TSL on (uses port 25.) OP, are you talking
about _getting_ or _sending_ your mail? In mail.app, for
soda's TLS, you need to use port 25 and SSL for 'server
settings' under outgoing mail servers (under the 'account
information' tab.) For Getting mail via IMAPS, under
'advanced', use port 993 and SSL and most likely
password auth. -John
\- I have http://csua.berkeley.edu as the outgoing server, port 25
SSL checked, and "Password" authentication. What is TSL/TLS?
Still won't connect.
\_ TSL was a typo, like the kind you never make. TLS =
transport layer security, based on SSL 3.0. The
difference is that SMTP/SSL is a dedicated, fully
encrypted connection, while SMTP/TLS runs over the
SMTP port and wants a 'STARTTLS' command. I don't know
what the problem with scotch/soda is; maybe it has
something to do with not accepting esmtp. Telnet
http://zog.net 25 and do an ehlo and see what happens. -John
\- if the typo comment was directed at me, that's not me.
--photuris
\- My apologies, I thought only psb did \- -John
\- somewhat ironic in a thread about authentication.
--yes, it is me
\_ When I try using TLS on port 25, I keep getting errors
about relaying being denied, but I am supplying the
same login information as for IMAPS, which works fine.
-!op |
| 2006/6/30-7/5 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43544 Activity:nil |
6/30 I'm trying to set up SSH port forwarding of VNC between my laptop and
my home server. Once I had it working but I lost be client-side
config. I can use PuTTY to set up port forwarding and can successfully
load webpages off the remote server by using <DEAD>localhost<DEAD>
My problem is that I can't seem to forward port 5900 (VNC) to my
remote machine. When I try telnetting to localhost port 5900 I get
a connection but don't get the standard VNC handshake: "RFB 003.003"
I know VNC is up on that machine because I can connect to it just fine
when I am on the same subnet. Any ideas?
\_ You're not running VNC on your local box on port 5900, are you?
\_ Ooh, good idea.. but no.
\_ OK, so in PuTTY, your Forwarded ports: lines for your server Session
look like:
L80 localhost:80
L5900 localhost:5900
Is that right? What OS is the server?
\_ I had this:
L80 http://myhost.com:80
L5900 http://myhost.com:5900
I changed the second one to
L5900 locahlost:5900 and now it works. Thanks!
But why did the HTTP forwarding work then?
\_ Maybe your firewall/VNC server/whatever would allow loopback
connections, but not connections on the "real" IP |
| 2006/6/28-7/3 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43520 Activity:nil |
6/28 Help. My ISP doesn't forward my email anymore, or at least it is
forwarding but has a huge delay. Below is a sample from
"sendmail -bp". My user name is joe and my school is http://school.edu.
What could be going on? Thanks:
519FF8D747 3812 Wed Jun 27 13:00:37 joe@hello.dreamhost.com
(host <DEAD>smarty.dreamhost.com<DEAD>[66.33.216.24] said: 450 Server
configuration problem (in reply to RCPT TO command))
joe@cs.school.edu
\_ Maybe your school implemented greylisting and your ISP doesn't
deal with 450s correctly? -John
\_ Talk to your ISP. I think it's a "450 Server configuration problem" |
| 2006/6/26 [Computer/SW/Mail, Industry/Jobs] UID:43495 Activity:low 73%like:43497 |
6/26 Has anyone SysAdmin consulted for Taos before? They offered me
a contract and I like their client. How much more should I ask
for above the client pays the full-time equivalent, assuming
I figured that out? |
| 2006/6/23 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43483 Activity:kinda low 80%like:43482 80%like:43487 |
6/23 Soda rooted by sendmail bug. Will be going down at 3pm.
\_ Resetting accounts again?
\_ Good thing I stopped using my @csua.berkeley.edu address as my main
non-work e-mail address!
\_ Let's try FreeBSD again!
\_ Let's try Windows!
\_ Er, why is this in motd.public?
\_ soda is run by liburals, always aiding and comforting Terrorists
\_ Maybe 'cause it's a lie?
\_ So, why is it still up?
\_ It used to say 5pm.
\_ The crackers have changed the root passwd! Root is powerless!
\_ I can assure you this has not happened. --michener
\_ I know of no such issue and have not heard from the rest of root
about it. If this is not a lie, will whoever wrote this email root?
--michener |
| 2006/6/23 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43482 Activity:nil 80%like:43483 80%like:43487 |
6/23 Soda rooted by sendmail bug. Will be going down at 5pm. |
| 2006/6/20-24 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:43439 Activity:nil |
6/19 I'm leaving the country for a year. I am thinking of
getting a Skype number in the United States, and I guess
if people in the US call it, my Skype client running
on my computer in the foreign country will receive the call?
What is wrong with my plan to do this?
nnn \_ 1. yes. The only thing wrong with your plan is that as nerdy as
you are, you may *NOT* be at front of computer all the time.
After a while, when people couldn't reach you via the Skype
number, they will STOP calling you. I recommend you also purchase
couple SkypeOut credit; and also set up a call-forwarding on your
SkypeIn number to your local cell phone. THis way, when you are not
at the front of computer or your computer is off, calls will
be forwarded to your cell phone. kngharv
\_ No. You get voicemail with your skypein number. I'm using
it (my Swiss cell phone is forwarded to my CH skypein
number while I'm in Chile.) When you start your Skype
client, it tells you you have voicemails. Works a charm,
worth the money. -John
\_ duh, voicemail come with the SkypeIn number. My experience
is that after a while, people just sick of calling because
he/she gets voicemail all the time. Skype forwarding
service would keep people interested in calling this number.
kngharv
\_ That wasn't his question. -John
\_ 1. yes. The only thing wrong with your plan is that as nerdy as
you are, you may *NOT* be at front of computer all the time.
After a while, when people couldn't reach you via the Skype
number, they will STOP calling you. I recommend you also purchase
couple SkypeOut credit; and also set up a call-forwarding on your
SkypeIn number to your local cell phone. THis way, when you are not
at the front of computer or your computer is off, calls will
be forwarded to your cell phone. kngharv
\_ No. You get voicemail with your skypein number. I'm using
it (my Swiss cell phone is forwarded to my CH skypein
number while I'm in Chile.) When you start your Skype
client, it tells you you have voicemails. Works a charm,
worth the money. -John
\_ duh, voicemail come with the SkypeIn number. My experience
is that after a while, people just sick of calling because
he/she gets voicemail all the time. Skype forwarding
service would keep people interested in calling this number.
kngharv
\_ That wasn't his question. -John
\_ There are other similar VOIP service. For example,
http://voicestick.com offers FREE virtual # anywhere in USA. It
can then forward anyone calling that # to anywhere in the
world. Of course you pay for the forwarded calls. |
| 2006/6/14-16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43388 Activity:nil |
6/14 I've thrown together an LDAP cgi to let people update their
phone numbers in active directory. Small problem: Outlook
no longer grabs the "facsimileTelephoneNumber" attribute
for Business Fax. It sees that attr as "Other Fax". Does
anyone know what attribute Outlook is looking for now for
"Business Fax". This is Outlook 2003/Exchange 2003/Windows 2000
native AD with Exch 2003 Schema changes.
--scotsman
\_ please resist the temptation of modifying standard schema
to comply with MS product.
mujahedeem against embrace, extent, and eliminate
\_ It's not a temptation. It's an operational requirement. |
| 2006/5/26-29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43204 Activity:nil |
5/26 postfix has milter support --Jon
http://www.postfix.org/MILTER_README.html |
| 2006/5/11-17 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:43021 Activity:nil |
5/11 http://www.decf.berkeley.edu/help/mail/pine-imapssl.html I followed step 11 to transfer from local files to IMAP. However, the ordering in IMAP is completely reversed. Is there a way to sort folders in IMAP? Thanks. |
| 2006/5/7-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42962 Activity:nil |
5/7 Posting new articles from trn should work now. Sorry it was
broken before. --mconst
\_ It seems to work, thanks a lot! -jrleek
\_ Or not. I got this error, and nothing ever posted.
inews: warning: What server?
inews: article will be spooled
-jrleek |
| 2006/5/6-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42960 Activity:nil |
5/6 Got an embarrasingly dumb question regarding pine. I currently
use an ISP that uses /var/mail/<user> as the inbox and local
mail/ directory to store folders. The new ISP I'm moving to
uses IMAP where all the folders are kept on the server. One
question. How do I migrate my local mail/* to the new server? I tried
configuring a local drive (Setup->L(colectionLists) to setup
a local mail/ directory as indicated in the following but no luck:
http://www.decf.berkeley.edu/help/mail/pine-imapssl.html |
| 2006/5/3-5 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42921 Activity:nil |
5/3 Can anyone recommend an e-mail service that provides POP3/IMAP and
SMTP with encrypted authentication, From: address to whatever you want
it, isn't zombie-land, has minimal service interruptions, and won't
go away? Doesn't need to be free. Really imporant to have minimal
service interruptions.
\_ Gmail!
\_ From: address always defaults to @gmail.com.
\_ I believe you can change this in Settings->Accounts.
There is no IMAP though.
\_ Cool, I just tested it. Works through SMTP auth port 465
too. Thanks. -op
\_ Not if you're using SMTP, afaik. |
| 2006/5/3-5 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:42918 Activity:nil |
5/3 In the light of what happened recently, should I stop using soda
for any important communications and get a gmail account instead?
\_ FYI, I am making my ISP account (Comcast) my main e-mail point.
My problem with gmail is that the From: address is automagically
replaced with your @gmail.com address, whereas I can make it
whatever I want with Comcast as long as I authenticate.
I do realize Comcast is the source of most zombie spam.
This is after having used soda as my main mail account since '92.
Props to all the undergrads who have kept soda up, anyway.
\_ Comcast is a bad idea. Comcast is a spam target and also means
you are tied to that ISP. Better to convert to gmail.
\_ because, you know, gmail isn't a spam target. -tom
\_ No, but it does have good spam filtering built-in.
Still, what is a good reason for using comcast over
gmail? I'd rather use soda. Or <DEAD>cal.berkeley.edu<DEAD>.
\_ I don't use comcast, but web interfaces to email
suck, and gmail still doesn't offer IMAP, right? -tom
\_ Well, gmail is faster than any other webmail I've
used, and the searching/labeling/filtering system
is pretty good. Gmail is the only webmail I've used
that I could put up with daily... although I still
only use it for certain things. Maybe eventually
they will have IMAP. I saw some kind of beta 3rd
party attempts at providing IMAP gmail access.
Shrug.
\_ "web interfaces to email suck" ?? what are you
talking about? gmail is easy to use, has key-
board shortcuts and is accessible from anywhere
without worrying about ssh'ing or crap like that
\_ One drawback of web mail is that if you don't
access it within X time, your account can
go byebye. Although gmail's 9 months is I think
much longer than any other free webmail.
\_ Let me be more explicit; non-web GUI mail clients
have better interfaces than web-based mail
clients. It can be useful to have access to
a web-based client, but the web interface is
signficantly less effective for day-to-day
activity. -tom
\_ gmail supports POP/SMTP, so you can use
other email clients like outlook and
mac mail client.
\_ but not with multiple mailboxes, so
what's the point? -tom
\_ Most people stopped using soda for important communications a
long time ago.
\_ Yes, it's pretty obvious that gmail will be more reliable for
things like that. I use both.
\_ I echo the op's concerns and am switching to my primary e-mail to my
ISP as well (SBC). If you lived in a neighborhood for 10 years,
loved it, then all of a sudden couldn't get access to your house for
2 weeks because their was a break-in, while the local police was
processing your paperwork, I would move. Again, not enough praise
can be given to those volunteering their time and effort to maintaining
this environment. It's a testament that it's has as much uptime as it
does. But as your primary account, it would be awful to go
through that again. I think free e-mail services are risky because
they can start charging at anytime or start going downhill
(ie. Hotmail). If you are happy with your ISP and plan to use them for
awhile, why not go with them, at least you have greater control of the
risks.
\_ I'm still using soda for most things just because, it's really
nice to be able to hand someone an email address you can be
fairly sure will still be there in 5 years.
\_ Why not just register your own domain ($2 to $30/year), and
point it at a cheap virtualhosting/email provider ($10 to
$50/month)? -dans
\_ because there are free, or already-paid-for alternatives. |
| 2006/4/30-5/2 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42869 Activity:nil |
4/30 So still no chance of POP3/S ?
\_ I'm curious why, given IMAP/S, why you would still want to use
POP3/S? Are you using a service that lacks/has poor IMAP support?
-dans
\_ Because I like to save all my emails local, keep the
/var/mail one here just to the essentials and not have the
email boxes synced.
\_ Because I have my mail locally and my client has rules
to organize it.
\_ You can do this with IMAP, but it depends on client support.
If your client doesn't support what you want, why not use
fetchmail as an IMAP client to deliver to your local mail
server and pop from there? Gross, to be sure, there's a
reason POP is deprecated. -dans |
| 2006/4/24-25 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW] UID:42817 Activity:nil |
4/23 Soda problem: I don't seem to be able to post to newsgroups
with trn. I get:
cat: /var/lib/news/whoami: No such file or directory
(re-entering cbreak mode)
inews: From header: address syntax error
-jrleek
\_ On a side note, can someone install tin?
\_ Whoever installed tin, thank you!!
\_ Hmm.. tin says none of my newsgroups exist on the server.
\_ try "tin -r" and make sure you have the correct remote
server "NNTPSERVER=agate.berkeley.edu" in your setenv. |
| 2006/4/24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42810 Activity:high |
4/23 any chance for jove to be installed?
\_ Why is it that you cannot use emacs? The staff should
concentrate on higher priority things for which there is not
a very good substitute ... a substitute which is vastly
better than the original.
\_ hey you know root can install jove with one command:
apt-get install jove
\_ On the other hand, installing jove is a lot less work than
all the higher-priority things we ought to be doing. Done.
--root
\_ Seriously, why does jove exist? Why does anyone use it? I
am genuinely curious.
\_ any chance for elm and micq to be installed?
\_ I second elm. I like frm and newmail which polls for new mail
every n seconds.
\_ frm is already installed, newmail is a separate package...
do you still need elm for the mail client?
\_ zip/unzip would be cool. |
| 2006/4/18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42780 Activity:nil |
4/18 Hi guys, just downloaded ~ 200 messages via IMAP using Outlook 2003.
I manually deleted all my spam before moving the good e-mail to a
local folder. A lot of my messages have the wrong content for a
given subject line, and those e-mails are also messed up in general.
Not sure if this happened to anyone else -- already deleted my soda
copies, so too late to check if it would work using POP (perhaps just
Outlook weirdness). |
| 2006/4/17 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42767 Activity:nil |
4/17 I know that POP3 is not enabled. How about IMAP? is it fixed yet?
how about SMTP auth? thx |
| 2006/4/17-20 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42759 Activity:low |
4/16 Thanks for getting soda back up guys. Question, is sendmail
actively working through the backlog? I haven't really gotten
any old mail, and I expected at least some. -jrleek
\_ Worry not. We backed up about 2 CDs worth of mail (that's a lotta
text) to other places on our network. Will be unqueuing that too
in short order -- michener
\_ No rush at all, but I'm just curious if it will be a matter
of hours, days, or weeks before the mail is unqueued? I'm
very relieved to hear that I'm not the only one who hasn't
received any email from the past few days.
\_ Sadly it appears that while we have been queing the mail, we
have lost some mail (expect announcements about this once email
is fully up and running again). Basically once scotch's mail
partition filled up we had to save off the messages to allow
for more incoming. The first time we did this, it was saved to
the disk on screwdriver which we use for office home directories.
To add insult to injury, this raid failed (after running
degraded for about two weeks) and so approximately 150k messages
were lost. The other backups were stored on keg and we are
actively queueing the 300k+ messages that were in the saved
queues. We are also looking at if there are any ways we can
recover the lost messages. -mrauser
\_ Even if the messages are not recoverable, is it at least
possible to be able to see a log of who the lost
messages were from, subject header, etc?
\_ No. This is a lot of work.
\_ from/to should be pullable from mail logs, no?
subject wouldn't be.
\_ Are you volunteering? If so, mail root.
\_ before I volunteer, how many people actually
want this information?
\_ If possible, I would like this
information. It would be of value to me
to know who I may have lost mail from.
I (and hopefully others) wouldn't mind
making a nominal financial contribution
to whomever can retrive this info. -asb
\_ So, for the lost messages, would the sender have
gotten a bounced message saying that the
message couldn't be delivered, or would they
have no reason to think their message wasn't
delivered?
\_ Is there a specific time frame (like all
messages sent between certain hours were lost),
or was it sporadic? |
| 2006/4/15-16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42742 Activity:nil |
4/15 Mail off means that mail is being bounced? Or is it still being
queued up on scotch?
\_ Speaking of mail, I think mail for csua should be handled by
a separate machine that normal people can't interactively use.
Just a suggestion.
\_ what about the people who use mutt, won't they be sadened that
/var/mail is on a nother machine that they can't use their mutt
to mutt with?
\_ mutt will have no problem with it. -tom
\_ mutt and pine both support imap. -dans
\_ nfs mount /var/mail onto soda.
\_ You don't care very much if your mail mysteriously
disappears, do you? -dans
I knew 6.x isn't good for production from following the
freebsd-{stable|bugs} lists.
Oh, and thanks for staying up all night fixing things. (You
did, right?)
\- I think the consensus is that we want to move to a new
mail machine that is seperate but right now the priority
is getting mail+ssh working.
\- Queueing |
| 2006/3/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:42145 Activity:kinda low |
3/8 Windows Mobile 5.0 Contacts get synced with the Contacts in Outlook.
Is there a way to decouple that? I mean I don't use Outlook.
I want a stand alone Contacts program that syncs with Windows Mobile.
\_ Uninstall Outlook?
\_ Microsoft uses WinCE platform to force OEM to distribute Outlook.
It is part of the greater strategy to tight mobile platform to
desktop to backend server. And to answer your question, no,
you can't really do it. Further, there are no real calendar
alternative for average user, no?
\_ upcoming Google ical! |
| 2006/2/28-3/1 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:42027 Activity:moderate |
2/28 Hi I'm a noob and I just installed LINUX DEBIAN for the very first
time in my life. I did a vanilla install, then apt-get sendmail and
pine. I tried to send myself an email on the local machine but
my mailbox is always empty. Even setting up bad crontab -e doesn't
email me any output. What should I do next? Thanks.
\_ check the logfile in /var/log, probably mail.log
\_ It's Debian GNU/Linux, not LINUX DEBIAN
\_ Who gave rms a csua account?
\_ He came in, filled out a form and ate the leftover
watermelon. How could we not give him an account?
\- RMS prefers CRENSHAW melon to WATERMELON.
\_ debian doesn't shove exim onto you anymore? exim
not good enough for you?
\_ As far as I know exim is still the default. op should probably
just stick to exim
\_ Yes, exim is still the default. op should definitely not use
sendmail as it deserves no place on *any* system installed after
newer, better MTA's were written. op should probably use
postfix. -dans
\_ What are some of the newer, better MTA's? tia.
\_ exim, postfix, qmail in no particular order.
\_ got milter?
\_ Eh. It's fairly weak and unconfigurable compared to what
you can do with postfix. Even if I thought the milter
offerred much value, it wouldn't come anywhere near making
up for the pain and suffering of configuring sendmail.
-dans |
| 2006/1/27-29 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41568 Activity:nil |
1/27 I'm trying to use SMTP auth over TLS. It works fine with Thunderbird,
but some versions of Outlook Express fail to connect
Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 (works)
Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 (doesn't work)
How does one get the latest build of MSOE?
\_ Nevermind, the problem is MSOE can only do TLS SMTP on
port 25. No luck using port 587/submission.
\_ Nevermind, the problem is MSOE can't do TLS on a port OTHER
that 25. Time to switch everybody to Thunderbird. |
| 2006/1/17-18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41396 Activity:nil |
1/17 So, the outstanding 'issues' with new Soda are:
* X11 forwarding
* SMTP AUTH
are these problems being worked on?
\_ smtp auth is being worked on, whats the issue with x11?
\_ i just noticed that wget doesn't work.
\_ /usr/local/bin/wget seems to work fine for me. What
is the problem you are having? |
| 2006/1/17-18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41395 Activity:nil |
1/17 When I send out mail on soda using pine (yeah, yeah, I'll switch to
mutt one of these days), my outgoing messages have:
X-Authentication-Warning: http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu: <user> owned
process doing -bs
in them. Can anyone explain what this means and how to fix this
(other than switching to mutt)? Thanks.
\_ Never mind. I found the answer:
http://www.slingcode.com/pineauthenticationwarning.php
\_ I still use RMAIL. |
| 2006/1/5-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41252 Activity:nil |
1/5 I have done it before, but now it doesn't seem to work anymore.
any PINE users out there? How to I mark a message unread? Searching
the web turn up the following sequence:" *,n ", but that doesn't
seem to work here.
\_ * N works for me...
\_ (S)etup, (C)onfig, make sure that "enable-flag-cmd" is set -crebbs
(or just include "enable-flag-cmd" in your feature list in .pinerc)
\_ thank you very much, someone must have changed my setting. Come
to think of it, it always feel like there was someone snooping
in my account. is there any good way to find out |
| 2006/1/4-6 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:41223 Activity:nil |
1/4 Linux question: when I do a ypcat passwd on a Linux NIS client,
I see 11-13 lines, then a long pause and then it continues. On my
sun boxes and a few other Linux machines the whole map appears
instantly. Any ideas? netstat -i doesn't report any errors on the
client or nis server. |
| 2006/1/3-5 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41207 Activity:nil |
12/3 Remote SMTP access is still down. Would someone explain to me what
are the technical challenges for setting this up? or there isn't much
technical issues just that root haven't get the chance to look into
it?
\_ workin' fine now. whats yer probelm?
\_ I can only send email to myself via pop, or i get authentication
error. I haven't changed my setting in any way and it was
working fine until soda got upgraded. kngharv
\_ send mail via pop?
\_ so you're trying to use soda's smtp server to send mail
elsewhere? This is a tricky thing to setup without also
allowing spammers to relay mail through soda.
\_ isn't that what smtp auth is?
\_ You've verified that your ISP currently allows 3rd party SMTP, right? |
| 2006/1/1-4 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:41192 Activity:nil |
1/1 Anyone ever have problems with procmail inserting a '>' in front of
the 'From' field when it forwards email? I haven't been able to
figure out how to prevent this, not find any web info talking about
it. The insertion screws up mail-reading at the forwarded end
(thunderbird does not separate out the subject and other fields any
more). Thanks!
\_ It's probably sendmail, not procmail doing that. And the problem
is probably that you're attaching the original headers in the
message body, instead of in the message header, or another From
header is being added, so sendmail is escaping the From.
\_ Yeah, looking at an email as received at csua and at the
remote forward destination, it looks like in the process of
procmail forwarding it wraps a new set of headers on top of
the email. I thought that it used to work fine without
changing things like this, though? Haven't been able to
find any documentation that shines any light on modifying the
behavior to forward the mail with original headers, though -op |
| 2005/12/13-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:41005 Activity:nil |
12/13 Hi guys, SMTP relay does not work with the new soda.
It used to work using SMTP/SSL with password authentication on old
soda.
Can someone get SMTP/SSL relay working again, on some port?
(I don't like to use the company SMTP server for personal e-mails, and
I actually prefer a GUI client over logging in and using mutt.)
\_ This is a known issue, root types are trying to figure it out.
\_ Thanks root!
\_ I have this working nicely on Postfix if there's anything
from my setup you want (don't know how sendmail does it.) -John |
| 2005/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:40965 Activity:low |
12/11 Ok, I give: how do I use new soda for outgoing SMTP? I'll start us off
with a guess:
http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu:465, with SSL turned on
\_ This doesn't work. I've tried.
\_ Please specify the RFC that would suggest to you that soda would
talk SMTP on 465. Also, why are you using soda as outgoing SMTP
server for anything that's NOT soda?
\_ Are you stupid or just stupid?
\_ Yeah, I'm stupid, I can't figure out why'd he expect SMTP
on the URD port. The fact that it improperly worked before
is not an excuse. Nor can I figure out why he'd _need_ to
relay through soda.
\_ how about port 587?
\_ Is an alumnus posting this?
\_ This better not be one of the new students
\_ yes.
\_ Any port in a storm! |
| 2005/12/8-11 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:40927 Activity:nil |
12/8 Cannot write to client file |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40899 Activity:nil |
12/7 So what are the correct SMTP settings for soda now? I've been
using port 465 + SSL + password authentication and it's stopped
working since the reboot.
\_ I just mailed myself using port 25 + SSL + password.
\_ % telnet http://csua.berkeley.edu 25
Trying 128.32.112.233...
telnet: connect to address 128.32.112.233: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
\_ I just did that too and got a connection.
\_ many isp's block port 25.
\_ if you figure this out, please let me know, because I can't do
it neither. I can only email to myself. |
| 2005/11/2-4 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/HW, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:40406 Activity:nil |
11/2 Does anyone still use VM (Vmail) in Emacs? I reluctantly switched to
Outlook 4 yrs ago when I switched job, and I haven't used VM since
then.
\_ Used it until ~1 year ago. It unfortunately hasn't been updated
for several years. It's really solid for what it does, but it
doesn't do IMAP. I switched to the similar "Wanderlust" which
does support IMAP and haven't looked back.
\_ In the VM 7.19 from http://www.wonderworks.com/vm there is an
vm-imap.el dated 5/30/2003.
\_ VM's IMAP support is marginal. You can pretty much use it
like POP to fetch mail, but you can't do things like
disconnected operation etc. ... if you need to use it just
like POP because your server only supports IMAP not POP,
it's fine, but if you need to do server synching, marks,
disconnected operation, etc., VM is not your bag. -pp |
| 2005/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:40324 Activity:nil |
10/28 Abandon the Web! guerrilla platform warfare: http://csua.org/u/dus |
| 2005/10/20-22 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:40201 Activity:nil |
10/20 Sendmail question: When I send mail while logged into my mail server
to an address on the same server, the From address appears
as "username" rather than "username@mailserver". Can somebody
give me a hint what I need to change to have the full address appear?
\_ In both Emacs sendmail and MS Outlook, you can specify an address in
the "From:" field.
\_ This is a sendmail.cf question, not about the mail client.
\_ FEATURE(always_add_domain)dnl in sendmail.mc. -tom |
| 2005/10/6-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:39998 Activity:nil |
10/6 Is there a UNIX command line that uses an SMTP server to send out
email? Something like:
prompt> mail joe@blogspot.com -smtp_server <DEAD>smtp.yahoo.com<DEAD> -user
sam@yahoo.com -password abcdefg
\_ ObUseTelnet
\_ Theres probably more modern tools, but 11 years ago I downloaded
~mehlhaff/bin/mailforge.sh, which I've never actually used.
The trick is finding an open SMTP relay that will let you use it.
-ERic
\_ http://esmtp.sourceforge.net I think this is the esmtp I use
with a ~/.esmtprc that does what you describe. -ax |
| 2005/8/23 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:39234 Activity:nil |
8/23 I have a lot of problems with Google and Yahoo mail lately. I use
pine with the "Roles" feature where I can set the From: field to
whatever address I have. I've been using this for a while without
any problem, but lately Google and Yahoo just filter all of my
mails. How do I tell them that my email is legit? I don't send
spam contents or anything like that. Thanks.
Below is my header, generated by Pine and the mailer:
From myname2005@mydomain.com Tue Aug 23 12:45:24 2005
Return-Path: <myname2005@mydomain.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Blow <myname2005@mydomain.com>
X-X-Sender: myRealLogin@myPrimaryDomain.com
\_ Is http://mydomain.com advertising SPF rules that contradict where you're
actually sending it from?
\_ What's a SPF rule and how do I find out?
\_ 1) http://www.google.com/search?q=SPF+rule
2) dig http://google.com TXT |
| 2005/7/26-28 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:38836 Activity:nil |
7/26 What's a graphical mail reader for unix that lets
me specify multiple SMTP servers for sending email?
For instance for GMAIL i want to use <DEAD>smtp.gmail.com<DEAD> .
for work I want to use <DEAD>smtp.work.com<DEAD> . I can sort of do
it in Thunderbird if I manually change the SMTP server
every time I send mail from certain locations. - danh
\_ Mozilla. Under Mail & Newsgroup settings -> SMTP Servers ->
Advanced. Probably Tbird as well. -John |
| 2005/7/2-5 [Computer/SW, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:38398 Activity:nil |
7/2 Bad software interface causes loss of more than $12 million:
http://tinyurl.com/dqd2m (news.com) |
| 2005/6/13-15 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:38098 Activity:nil |
6/13 Any recommendations for a free webmail service that doesn't charge for
POP3 download, SMTP? I want to be able to access it using VersaMail
on Treo 650. Using GMail right now, but I'm not a big fan of their
privacy practices. So the requirements are: free, respects privacy, a
viable company.
\_ I think you're just going to have to suck it up and use Gmail.
\_ Agreed. No company is gonna offer free popS service for free
besides google. At least not right now. |
| 2005/6/10-13 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:38079 Activity:nil |
6/10 Does anyone else have this Outlook problem? Once a while the fonts in
the HTML messages in my Inbox becomes very big. Then if I go to other
messages and then go back to those HTML messages later, the fonts will
become normal again. Rich-text and plain-text messages don't have this
problem. Thx. |
| 2005/5/14-16 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:37677 Activity:nil |
5/14 Buy a "dinosaur" pine:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/05/wip_wollemi_pin.php
http://www.wollemipine.com |
| 2005/5/8-9 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:37571 Activity:kinda low |
5/8 I was thinking about switching from Mail.app to a different mail
client and a couple of people told me to try mutt. Does anyone
here use it? Can it handle multiple servers (I have a pop3 account
and an imap account and want to keep the mail separate)? I was
looking through the HOWTOs and I couldn't figure this out. tia.
\_ I use it for my soda mail. When I first switched, the keymapping
confused the hell out of me, but now I'm much happier than before.
And I can use emacs to write my emails. So much more useful than
any default editor.
\_ It's of course not emacs, but you can get all Cocoa programs
to support the basic emacs editing commands (M-f, etc.), which
is often good enough for me:
http://www.object.com/TechNotes/DefaultKeyBinding.html
Google "DefaultKeyBinding" for more.
\_ offlineIMAP may help: http://quux.org/devel/offlineimap. -tom
\_ As a former mutt user (who is quite fond of mutt for what it is),
and current Mail.app user, I consider mutt a step backwards.
Primarily because mutt doesn't elegantly support multiple windows
so you can view several messages at the same time, view a mailbox
and compose a message at the same time, etc. -dans
\_ Yes and no. You have to use separate rc files and override the
default ~/.muttrc choice using the -F option because the server
settings are global. Run a separate mutt instance for each...
I like the opposite behavior and use fetchmail to merge all my
accounts and then use msmtp as my sending agent to allow me
to send as 4 different From addresses w/ the proper authenticated
SMTP relay for each account. |
| 2005/4/29-7/12 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:37426 Activity:nil |
4/29 From the official motd above:
As of May 11 Soda will discontinue SSH 1 and secure telnet support. We
will also be discontinuing support for unauthenticated/unencrypted
mail services in compliance with university security requirements.
Please see your email for more information (assuming you're on
csua@csua). Questions, comments, complaints, and cheap floozies to
root.
\_ Does this mean that I will not be able to access csua using
ssh, or simply that there will be no one to help with problems,
or that I need to use a new secure version of ssh? Also, can
I still use pine on csua?
\_ SSHv1 is the old insecure version of the protocol. Most
ssh clients now support SSHv2. If you are using OpenSSH
you should have no problems.
\_ Does this mean we will be able to use soda as an smtp gateway
when off of campus net?
\_ From the email sent out a few hours ago:
To comply with UC Berkeley departmental standards, we must
terminate support for unauthenticated/unencrypted external
access to all mail services. If you access Soda via POP, IMAP,
or send mail through our SMTP server you MUST switch to use
both authentication and SSL/encryption. These options should
be easily found within most mailers,
IMAP / http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu port 993 (w/ssl)
SMTP / http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu port 465 (w/ SSL + login is
user@soda.csua.berkeley.edu and password)
POP / http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu port 995 (w/ auth + SSL)
\_ Per request, a copy of the email has been saved to the following
location: /csua/pub/SodaChanges0505
- jvarga
\_ As an aside, I've found that for some bizarre reason,
Mozilla mail doesn't like some SMTP AUTH/TLS authentication
setups, while SMTP AUTH/SSL is just fine. This is with
Postfix/SASL2 & Dovecot/imaps under FreeBSD 5.3-R. I just
went through some trouble setting this up, and if anyone
wants my configs I'm happy to share. -John
\_ I'm off campus-net and I can send mail fine using SSL on port
25.
\_ Does that mean the ssh client at
http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/ssh will no longer work? |
| 2005/4/16 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:37219 Activity:nil |
4/16 I am Mr. Livi Chima, the Manager funds release with Standard Trust Bank
(plc), I am the accountant in charge of Mr.Moris Miller`s account who
used to work with a Multi-National oil Firm in Nigeria. Here in after
shall be referred to as my client On April 21, 2001, my client, his
wife, and their three children were involved in a car accident along
Sagamu express way. |
| 2005/4/15 [Computer/SW/WWW/Server, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:37204 Activity:high |
4/15 My company specifically blocks out port 995, which is pop3 over
SSL. This makes me wonder, are they archiving all emails
received through regular pop3 port? I don't see any other
reason for blocking the port. Sending smtp via ssl is ok
though...
\_ Chances are they don't know about POP3/SSL.
Send them a polite request to open the port.
\_ What does your company do?
\_ I can't retrieve gmails through pop. at home it works fine. |
| 2005/4/14-15 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:37197 Activity:nil |
3/14 does gmail's pop3 work? Is there a delay after you enable it? pop login
always fails and I followed the setting to the letter. my client is
outlook 2003... thanks... |
| 2005/3/23-24 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36836 Activity:moderate |
3/23 I am running NAT. My smtp server (on the other side) refuses to allow
connections from anywhere but my own domain. I am mapping my
internal IPs to external IPs. Is there something I need to do to
the sendmail client to prevent "550 5.7.1 Access denied"? The
server seems to disconnect me because it sees the original
headers. Do they need to be rewritten?
\_ What smtp server?
\_ Dunno. I am not the admin. I assume sendmail, but maybe not.
\_ your question is not clear. the smtp server is on the public
network and you are connecting from behind nat? if the server
is checking tcp/ip addressing, it will see the address of
the NAT device's WAN interface. otherwise, it will see the
HELO name provided by your sending agent, which perhaps also
has to match your domain? the internall addressing on your
LAN should have no impact, unless you are trying to configure
the sending agent's self-identity in a perverse way. what
happens if you telnet to the server's smtp port? are you
dropped immediately or only after issuing a HELO/EHLO command?
\_ Correct. I am not dropped immediately. I can connect and
issue a HELO with no problems.
\_ then what are you asking again? can you manually
send a message via telnet? can you get a trace of the
failing sessions? what is different between the two?
I punted and use "msmtp" to deliver messages via my
authenticated SMTP server. |
| 2005/3/11-14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36650 Activity:low |
3/11 Why does trn keep crashing? It seems if I leave trn idle for about
5 minutes when I try to use it again I get an "unexpected socket
close" error. This started maybe 2 months ago. What's up?
It's making it difficult to multitask newsgroup reading. -jrleek
\_ The message means that trn's network connection died. You could
try mailing news@agate asking them not to use such an aggressive
idle timeout; failing that, I guess we could hack trn to send some
sort of keepalive every few minutes. --mconst
\_ Done. I have yet to recieve a reply, but the message was
sent at about 4pm on Friday, so that's no surprise. -jrleek
\_ I have the same problem. It's fairly new. |
| 12/25 |