10/12   Going to Ousterhout's RAMCloud talk at LinkedIn, are there any
        other CSUA'ers going? -ausman
        \_ has he done anything interesting since Tcl/Tk?

10/24   We just bought John Ousterhout's dig, Ajuba Solutions.  Wonder if
        that's a good thing or a bad thing...?
        \_ We just bought a Thai hookah.  Wonder if that's a good thing
           or a bad thing...?
           \_ seano is that you?
           \_ I like hookah's. -curtis-e-bear
           \_ smoking bad
        \_ According to the Ajuba site, you're killing all their products
           so what the hell is the point?
        \_ Ousterhout is the Tcl guy, right?  Sooner dead the better.
        \_ Tickle's weak...but I mean, it's basically BASIC, and BASIC
           kicks ass.  So what went so horribly wrong?
           \_ No, only M$ Visual Basic kicks ass. TCL would kick ass
              if it was M$ Visual TCL.
           \_ #F, original BASIC has no procedures, local variables,
                variable declaration, pass by value, pass by reference,
                and a data structure. TCL has all of the above and more.
                The syntax of TCL is horrible, the runtime is weak due
                to the limitation of the data structure, but other than
                that it has all the basic elements of a sound programming
                language. Of course nowadays a good programming language
                is defined by how fast you can learn it and how easy you
                can build applications with it.
                \_ How can you have "local" variables with no proceedures
                   (and presumably no separate source files)
                \_ Don't forget OO with OTcl and there's also Tcl/Cl.

8/17    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/arsdigita000818.html
        \_ They pay you $100k straight out of school to write Tcl server code.
           No thanks.
           \_ Hell yeah man, Tcl is so lame, I wouldn't even code that shit if
              someone paid me 300K !! F those lusers DOOD!
              \_ If you want to make $100k+, Tcl isn't the way to go. Just
                 start doing Java consulting at $75+/hr straight out of school.
                 \_ I don't know... I like working there. It is much better
                    than Vignette or one of the *ients. I started there
                    straight out of school and am in the group that is
                    porting the ACS (ArsDigita Community System) to Java.
                    What's your point? That making 100K is money-grubbing
                    and if you want to do it, you might as well totally
                    sell-out and do Java consulting?
                                                   -- Ars Digita employee
                \_ But don't you also have to put up with Phil's ego?
                                                -muchandr

6/30    I want to do some unix GUI programming. What's the difference
        between Xlib and Motif windows programming?  Is one easier
        than the other and is one more commonly used?
        \_ Didn't Sun put in millions of $$$ promoting Java???
           No one even suggest it?
        \_ Motif is cooler looking and the "standard", but non-free, so
                most hobbiests stick to Xlib
           \_ How about the MIT Athena toolkit?
           \_ there's plenty of X toolkits you can use: gtk, Xaw, Xaw3d and
              so on.  You learn more about X with Xlib .  Is this a learning
              project or an effert to get working code?
        \_ Use tk, it's much easier than either, and runs on Mac/Win as well.
           \_ gtk! http://www.gimp.org/gtk http://www.gnome.org -mogul
              \_ Is gtk like tk?  Does gtk interface to tcl?  What are
                 the benefits of using gtk instead of tcl?  I checked teh
                 gtk FAQ, but apparently these questions are not frequently
                 asked.  Thanks. -emin
                 \_ yes gtk is just like tk. in fact the 'g' in gtk simply
                    means 'graphical'.
                    \_ What do you mean?  Tk is a graphical toolkit.  How
                       is gtk different, and what advantages does it have
                       over tk?  I think tk is pretty cool and unless there
                       is an advantage in using gtk I would rather stick
                       with a tested, trusted, well-supported package like tk.
                       --emin
                 \_ YOU SHOULD USE GTK INSTEAD OF TK BECAUSE GTK IS WAY KEWL
                    AND IT USES THE GNU PUBLIC LICENSE SO ITS REALLY FREE,
                    FREE, FREE SOFTWARE THE WAY THAT LINUS AND RMS AND GOD
                    INTENDED, NOT LIKE TK THAT USES THE EVIL BEREKELEY-STYLE
                    LICENSE THAT WOULD LET PEOPLE WRITE SOFTWARE IN TCL AND
                    THEN SELL IT FOR MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!1    FREE FREE FREE
                    SOFTWARE RULES, DOWN WITH ALL NOT-COMPLETELY-FREE SOFTWARE
                    CONSPIRACIES.  THANK YOU.
                    \_ YEA! FUK ENE1 THT WANTZ 2 MAIK MUNEY FRUM THEYRE
                       WERK!!@!!!11
                       \_ I thought the GPL only requires source release. It
                          doesn't forbid commercial use, per se. Just that the
                          bastard capitalist coders can't tolerate having
                          the public see how bad their code really is.
        \_ Xlib is lower-level, and would require more work to get anything
           good-looking or useful.  If you're the type that would write
           something in assembly for performance, then program away in Xlib!
           If you want ease of coding, use a toolkit library.
           \_ I tried to get an O'Rielly book but I'm not sure which one
              to start out with.  There's a whole series of X books.
              \_ "O'Reilly".  (if you can't remember that, just say "ORA")

6/5     Do GUIs made with Tcl/Tk stand alone or do they use an
        interpreter? Thanks.
        \_ Yes.  (You can compile them into standalone binaries or run
                them as scripts via an interpreter, depending on whether
                or not you care about portability.)

3/5     For those of you who went to the Tcl/Tk help session on
        Wednesday and who like scheme, I translated the demo Tcl
        script Sam wrote into STk and placed it in ~josh/xrl.stk
        STk is a scheme interpreter with a string-based (and a
        not-so-complete object-based) interface to Tk.  -josh

10/8    waaaaaah! ouster is leaving!   *sniff!*
         \_ complete details posted to ucb.cs.grads
         \_ One of the few great professors I've run into at Berkeley.  I
            for one will regard this as a loss...sigh.
        \_ hey! why don't da CSUA organize a wake/roast/goodbye-party
            for the great Ousterhout?
        \_ So what will happen to Tcl/Tk??? - achoi
         \_ Microsoft will buy it and hack to shreds and sell it
          as "Visual TCL" for an exorbiant amount of money.