Computer SW Editors Vi - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:Editors:Vi:
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2017/10/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/7/24-29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:53195 Activity:low
7/24    Is dos2unix available somewhere?  Someone added all those Ctrl-M's to
        \_ %s/^V^M//g in vim. What has your editor done for you today?
           \_ that works great in vi actually... in vim :set filetype=unix
2008/12/2-7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:52143 Activity:nil
12/2    Article 1, Section 6
        No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was
        elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the
        United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof
        shall have been encreased during such time
        \_ Stop stomping my changes.
           \_ I didn't.  Learn to edit motd.
              \_ Yes you did. I used vi, which locks the motd.
                 \_ I think that the reality of the motd is that we can't
                    rely on advisory locks for access control.  We should
                    be using scripts to diff and merge changes to a local
                    copy, which can be used to re-add clobbered changes.
                    This is what I use and I never have any issue and don't
                    care if someone stomps me.  There's an extremely low
                    chance that I clobber someone myself, while I can
                    easily restore other people's clobbers.
                    \_ The only reason not to lock the motd is because you
                       are being some paranoid idiot afraid that someone
                       is TRACKING YOUR CHANGES.  If that's the case I don't
                       really care if your writes get nuked.
                       \_ Yes but you see, with this system it's effortless
                          for me to un-nuke them.  No cooperation from you
                          is required.
                 \_ Yah, I use vi too.  It informs me when the file has changed
                    before I write.  I *never* overwrite anything that was
                    changed in the meantime. -op
                    \_ Okay, maybe it wasn't you, but someone stomped my
2008/9/22-24 [Science/Electric, Computer/Companies/Google, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:51263 Activity:kinda low
9/22    Gmail's "conversation feature" drives me nuts! Is there a way to
        disable that and make Gmail act like every other e-mail client on the
        planet? WTF thought this was a nice thing to have on by default?
        \_ Umm, why don't you just use another email service then...
           \_ Umm, I do, which is how I have something to compare to. I get
              mail in at least 4 places only one of which is Gmail. I
              rarely use my Gmail account, but I decided to try it again
              today just to see how it was running and what features it
              has added. I like to stay current with this stuff for the
              same reason that people have accounts on flickr, snapfish,
              photobucket, and shutterfly. This "feature" of Gmail annoys
              the crap out of me.
              \_ Well, it is kind of central to their design of the product.
                 So if you don't like it and can't deal with it, use something
                 else. This need to "stay current" with different email
                 services is also somewhat mystifying. Do you like to
                 "stay current" with different word processors too? I mean,
                 there is some benefit to being familiar with whatever, but
                 it seems like there are many more worthwhile things to spend
                 your time learning.
                 \_ That's nice. I run Windows, Mac, and Linux but I guess
                    some people just learn Windows, are happy with it, and
                    that's that. So, yes, I do use different Word
                    Processors (OpenOffice and Word), mail clients (,
                    Thunderbird, kmail, and Outlook), etc. You might find
                    you like to watch TV, golf, or whatever your hobby is
                    that I find a waste of time. If you learn C++ does
                    that mean you shouldn't spend time learning Java or ruby
                    or python or whatever even if it turns out you think the
                    language sucks once you invested time in it?
                    \_ So a mail program is like a language?  "Keeping
                       current" with gmail means figuring out all the cool
                       things they do with javascript.  It doesn't mean knowing
                       how to read your email.
                       \_ I think you are wrong here. There are features
                          that can make you more productive if you know
                          about them. If you know "vi" then why learn
                          "emacs"? You already know a text editor, right?
                          \_ If you need to "stay current" with mail readers
                             you aren't smart enough to stay current.  It's
                             a flipping mail reader.  It reads mail.  A
                             moron can figure it out within 10 minutes.
                             \_ Spoken like someone who doesn't know very much.
                                "It's a friggin text editor. It edits text. A
                                moron can figure it out within 10 minutes."
                                Point here is that you don't know what
                                features are available until you spend
                                that 10 (or whatever) minutes trying it out!
                                \_ You keep that "gmail power user" on your
                                   resume.  Let us know how it works for you.
                                   \_ Keep reading your e-mail using PINE and
                                      let me know how it works out for you.
                          \- what is weird are the people under say 30
                             who learned vi rather than emacs.
        \_ Options -> sign out of chat.
        \_ There doesn't seem to be any way to turn it off.  It drove
           me crazy at first, but now I love it.
           \_ Same here.  At first I hated it, now using my yahoo account
              feels like going back to elm.
2008/6/12-13 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:50233 Activity:nil
6/12    Does emacs or vi include a column paste?  I sometimes have a block
        text I want to insert horizntally next to another block/column.  This
        is common for data plotting etc.  In Microsoft Word has this, I need
        it in a Unix text editor.
        \_ Does M-x picture-mode in emacs work for you?
           \_ Yes, with the commands below, thanks.
        \_ C-x r k runs `kill-rectangle'
           C-x r y runs `yank-rectangle'
           \_ Does this work outside picture mode?
              \_ Yes. There are quite a few other rectangle commands as well.
                 \_ How do you select a rectange?
                    \_ It's defined by point and mark. RTFM for details.
                       \- also valuable in emacs is align-regexp
2017/10/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2008/2/21-25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:49207 Activity:nil
2/21    Why don't people respect the lock on the motd put on by vi or
        emacs? Are they that paranoid about kchang's motd watching program?
        Is anyone still using motdedit?
        \_ hey I still use it.  Some people don't though.  some sneaky folks
           edit a copy of the motd offline and put it in place, not caring how
           much they stomp on others' changes that might have happened in the
           meantime... -ERic
           \_ The problem here is that if enough people edit offline, it
              becomes impossible to edit using vi.  I have taken to using
              the offline approach because vi changes I make get reliably
              stomped. Or maybe some dolt wrote a script to remove changes
              I make *shrug*. -- ilyas
              \_ My changes get stomped sometimes, too.  The best are when
                 I post 2 things at the same time and *one* of them is
                 gone later.  Doesn't take a genius to figure out what
                 happened but by editing offline it is trivial to restore
                 maliciously edited or removed material.  I also fix the
                 malicious trolling edits of other people's posts which is
                 something you can't do with live edits.  Again, it is just
                 a button press to fix those.
              \_ obUseEmacs
        \_ exactly, I don't want to be identified.
           \_ don't you want to know who has a sore on their groin?
                \_ {insert Slide joker here}
           \_ Ok I feel bad about this, and have semi-anonymized
              usernames. Tell me if this is okay with you        -kching
        \_ I use a little script to merge changes others might make while
           I'm editing. It also works to merge my stuff in again if someone
           clobbers it. So while I don't respect locks I don't care anymore
           if someone overwrites me. (If you had a lock and you overwrite
           someone that seems reasonable enough to me, though I don't
           overrwrite people. I sometimes restore others' stuff too.)
           \_ Same here.  I don't update the master copy unless no one else is
              editing it and do diffs, etc, as well to make sure I'm not
              stomping.  I also write stuff I decide after I don't really
              want to post so it gives me a chance to drop those bits before
              going live.
              \_ Also: no grabbing lock and then getting distracted. I use
                 diff also. It's the only sane way to see what people are
                 adding in a large motd.
        \_ key word: usually
2007/12/25-29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:48858 Activity:low
12/25   Why do basic commands like 'date' sometimes hang my shell since soda's
        latest problem (beginning late last week)? Vi, mail, almost
        anything has potential to freeze my session. I am lucky to be able
        to write this.
2007/10/27-11/1 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:48463 Activity:nil
10/27   Unlimited competition for expanding markets would lead to a
        global confict.
        \_ I CAN HAS SENTENCE?
        \_ trust the invisible hand
           \_ You are not the original invisible hand!
                --#1 original invisible hand
        \_ PLAGIARISM!!! Karl Marx and John A. Hobson need to be quoted
           (wrt to WW1, WW2, etc)
           \- and VI LENIN. just our of curiosity, where did you come across
           \- and VI LENIN. just out of curiosity, where did you come across
              JA HOBSON?
2007/9/21-24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Academia/OtherSchools] UID:48141 Activity:nil
9/20    MIT student wears art to airport, almost gets shot.
        \_ I spent many winter and summer vacations in Boston, and I can
           testify that Bostonians are, in general, retarded.  And I'm not
           talking about the MIT student here.
        \_ when I first heard about this I thought it was an intentional act.
           after you look at it, well, it's been spun like mad by authorities.
2007/9/8-10 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:47957 Activity:nil
9/8     What are some of the most useful but uncommon vi commands you
        didn't know about for a while till recently? I'll start:
        "cw" (change word) instead of "x x ... x x i"
        \_ You can combine nearly all action commands with motion commands.  So
           "dw" is delete word, etc.  Check out "inner word" (diw), p for
           paragraph.  Or if you're using Vim, just do ":help motion"
        \_ mine is this:  :q! <cr> followed by: emacs $filename
2007/8/29-30 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:47797 Activity:nil
8/28    hey motd censor, what are you using?  custom scripts?
        emacs?  good old fashioned vi?  an enterprise motd-to-motd
        solution?  tr?
2007/7/12-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:47271 Activity:kinda low
7/12    kchang, i edit the motd all of the time, NOT ONCE have i seen
        myself as the possible editor of the motd on your page.
        \_ Sure. What is your method of editing motd??          -kchang
        \_ Sure. What is your method of editing motd? Are you using one of
           the methods below?
        \_ All motd edits are done by me. -- ilyas
           \_ Your statement is only 48% true.
        \_ I was running some tests for a while to see how good the detection
           method is.  It wasn't that hard to avoid the detector nor was it
           hard to get tagged as a highly probable author of everything.
           You're kidding yourselves if you use that page to determine who
           wrote what.  It is amusing but not very accurate.
2007/5/1-2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:46489 Activity:nil
5/1     What's wrong with soda?  I get segfaults on wall and vi. -randal
        \_ It means you need to get back to work, slacker!  -meyers
        \_ it is very sick.  w is broken, and vi too. -ERic
        \_ It was refusing ssh connections until recently.
2007/2/8-11 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:45689 Activity:nil
2/9     Is our mail server having problem? I have sent a test email to my csua account
        yesterday, I have not received any email yet.
        \_ Is your editor having problems?  Or do you simply not care about 80
           \_ Yes, it must be.  VI didn't stop me from going pass col 80. :D
2007/2/4-7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:45650 Activity:nil
2/4     For all you heathens - vi Input Manager for OS X
        Now you can use you blasphemous vi keybindings in OS X Cocoa apps.
        \_ Now, I'm a serious Vi users (well, Vim), but why would anyone want
        \_ Now, I'm a serious Vi user (well, Vim), but why would anyone want
           vi bindings on the command line?
           \_ command line editing, etc.... why is the 'emacs' way better?
              \_ Because emacs rules, vi dr00lez!
2006/12/6-13 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:45418 Activity:nil
12/4    Trying to open a 385k file with vi and the session just freezes up
        (or maybe just takes an unusually long time and I wasn't patient
        enough).  I wonder if this is related to the recent issues.
2006/11/30-12/8 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:45399 Activity:nil
11/30   What's going on since about 7:45am?  Mail is no longer being
        received.  There is a ~/Mail/backup.lock file that keep being
        recreated even after I keep deleting it.  And, until right now,
        my session would freeze up upon trying to vi a file.  Disabling
        procmail by removing the .forward file didn't seem to help fix
        the lockfile issue, as I thought that was relating to procmail.
        \_ What's REALLY wrong is no one (except for jvarga and other
           really busy alumni) is stepping in to do the admin work.
           Most alumni have grown up and have other things to do,
           soda UNIX awareness is decreasing, active csua membership
           has been dwindling for many years, and the students
           don't have need to learn or admin esoteric UNIX boxes.
           Until this trend reverses, admin-less soda will continue
           to be hacked, defaced, and eventually die out. No one like
           bad news but this is reality we have to face.
           \_ whine whine whine, anyway I don't think politburo/root
              is going to give root to any random alumni who shows
              up at 343 Soda to "help out", are they?  If so,
              sign me up!
           \_ dude, does anyone even use soda for anything important???
              when mail goes down for DAYS and we bounce mail, who the
              hell is dumb enough to use soda for anything? no one uses
              soda anyway nowadays. just kill soda already. jvarga,
              you did good, man. -linxu
              \_ I still use soda. I use it to share my mp3 and my
                 private pictures of my geeky self, like you.
                 BTW I love your site and your pictures and mp3.
                 Could you please put some warez while you're at it?
                 \_ you wanna download the mp3s first ? ;)
                    anyway, what I used to use soda for pre-yet-another
                    rooting-but-this-time-2-weeks-until-it's-fixed. now
                    i don't use it, except to whine on motd. - linxu
        \_ /var/mail is full!!
           \_ Fixed.  2050 inactive accounts now bounce mail rather than sit
              and collect spam.  If you have any CSUA friends who never got
              their account reactivated back in May, let em know that their
              account may disappear in a few months.  - jvarga
              \_ The lockfile issue seems to still exist.
                 \_ Unfortunately I don't have time to debug this. - jvarga
2006/8/24-28 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:44146 Activity:nil
8/24    When I use "screen", the scrollback bars on my xterm and gnome-term
        don't work anymore. Is it possible to make them work under screen?
        \_ They'll sort of work, but not really.  I mean you may have more than
           one window.  Just use screen's builtin scrollback; it's better
           anyway (you can have one per window, tens of thousands of lines and
           best of all it's searchable)  Just hit ^A-Escape then pretty much
           vi controls to move around.  Hit escape again to leave scrollback
           mode.  --dbushong
           \_ Thanks so much! I tried Ctrl-A ESC and could move up and down.
              However vi keys like CTRL-B and CTRL-F don't work
              (page up/down). How do I move up and down? Thanks dave.
              \_ Hmm.  Ctrl-B and Ctrl-F work for me... maybe double check what
                 you have your scrollback set to?  If it's < the size of your
                 window, ^B and ^F obviously wouldn't do anything... Take a
                 look at ~mconst/.screenrc on soda for a bunch of settings with
                 comments.  (Including defscrollback)  --dbushong
           \_ !op, but thank you very much.  I've always heard of screen's
              scrollback feature, but never investigated.  You made it so
2006/6/22-26 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:43467 Activity:nil
6/22    New vi macro:
map \ lBmz"zcEx1GO'"zPI/home/dbushong/bin/csua-shortcut '!!/bin/sh"zy$dd`z"zphx
        Now you can just hit \ while anywhere (except the last char) over a URL,
        and it will replace it with: (
        Bugs to --dbushong
2006/6/3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:43268 Activity:nil
6/3     previously cating the motd through "more" would leave the motd on my
        screen after I quit out of "more", now when I quit the screen reverts
        and there is no history of the file mored (as if i was in vi or some
        such)  What has changed?
2006/3/17-18 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:42280 Activity:moderate
3/16    I'm looking to troll the motd. What are some good topics guaranteed
        to get results?
        \_ sex!
        \_ Easy.  Anything of interest to more than 1 person that isn't
           resolvable.  Next!
        \_  -John
            \_ This would make the motd so fun.
        \_ You've got a couple at the top now.
        \_ tom -dans
        \_ Evolution vs. Intelligent Design.
        \_ Emacs vs. vi.
           \_ uh, not this again. It's so boring. Besides, it has been
              established by now that vi lost.
              \_ how about emacs vs. vim?
                 \_ And xemacs vs. vim?
                 \_ Emacs. No contest. When vim grows up and gets modes
                    for reading mail, reading news, surfing the web,
                    compiling lisp, running in client-server mode, &c.
                    lets talk.
                    \_ Someone has been trolled.
                       \_ Someone was trying to make a joke.
        \_ Linux vs. FreeBSD vs. ......
        \_ Any environmental issue.  (Is global warming real?  Does recycling
           help?  Should we conserve?  Etc.)
        \_ Years ago "Is Windows a real OS?" used to be a hot topic.
        \_ Gun control. Postgres v. MySQL. The MacMini.
2006/3/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:42140 Activity:moderate
3/8     Poll, stupid political drivels make the motd:
        more interesting: .....
        stupid: ..
        \_ This poll question has an inherent bias!
        \_ What would the motd be w/o drivel?
           \_ more linux vs. freebsd drivels? vi vs. emacs drivels?
              I'll take technical drivels over pointless political ones any day
2006/2/3-4 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:41690 Activity:nil
2/3     dim, why is your vi process taking 100% CPU?
        \_ Dunno, but I killed it.
2005/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/HW/Display] UID:40228 Activity:nil
10/22   160 degree immersive display:
2005/9/14-17 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:39665 Activity:moderate
9/14    Does anyone else think Sun Microsystems is evil?  I have 2 biases
        #1. I went to Cal as an undergrad
        (SUN used to mean: Stanfurd University Networks)
        #2. I work for IBM.
        But seeing them fly over Dell yesterday:
        And then their advertising against Dell:
        Just is not classy. -vallard
        \- "evil" "stanford" ... come on grow up.
           if you think the ad might backfire, maybe that's worth
           talking about. i used to work for ibm too and there was a
           lot of stupidity there [dont use gnu compiler, dont talk
           about what is cool about the alpha] but in other areas
           it was a great environment and a smart company, but with
           regards to some things, they had their head up their ass.
           \_ sheesh, never hear of humor before?
        \_ do you think dell is evil for refusing to use amd? do you think
           intel is evil for refusing to let dell use amd?
           \_ Not the pp or op but Dell is evil for supporting war
              mongering, corporate tax loophole loving conservatives.
              They supported GWB and his illegal War on the Iraqi people.
        \_ I work for Sun.  And I can tell you flat out that Sun is *NOT*
           evil at all.  Sun is *STUPID*, *IRRESPONSIBLE* and has no
           accountability at the VP level and up, but they are not Evil.
           A lot of this has to do Scott McNealy's own personality.
           Instead of looking at competitor coldly and trying to figure
           out a way to crush them, he and entire Sun put a lot of emotion
           into it, and pull one prank after another (StarOffice, JDS)
           that is at most mischievous, but doesn't hurt competition in
           in any way in the long term... and a the mean time waste alot of
           its resources.
           \_ Yup as an ex-Sun employee I think you got it here.  The
              Stanford/Cal thing is just retarded - Sun was started by some
              uber-talented people, including Bill Joy from BERKELEY ...
              And Sun is no more or less evil than IBM.
           \_ Seconded. Sun is like many Frat boys I knew at Cal - too
              dumb to be dangerous or evil. - current sun employee.
        \_ Eh, the flyover stunt was pretty silly.  In this case I think
           the ads are just a necessary evil.  PHBs buy whatever has the
           buzz.  In this case their servers really are better than the
           more popular brand, and they need to show that. -jrleek
           Addendum: Ok, the ads that got "censored" are pretty low-class.
        \_ Why do people always forget about Bill Joy?
           \- "Bill Joy has a lot ot answer for." --hilfingr
           \_ Who is Bill Joy?  What does he have to answer for?
              \- He wrote the "almond" editor ... it would corrupt files and
                 was later replaced by vi.
                 \_ I've been googling and all I can find is that he wrote
                    vi, I've seen nothing about "almond."
                    \- it's been covered up. the almond editor existed long
                       before the WEEB and those of us who were around then
                       like to talk or blog about it. emacs may have an
                       almond emulation mode.
                       \_ You mean "WEB"?
                          \- NOO
              \_ In the dark and dismal corners of Cory and Evans,
                 during the dark ages (or the eighties) Bill could
                 be found hard at work on a little known and heavily
                 litigated hobby called the berkeley software
              \_ I think the "lot to answer for" may refer to vi.
              \_ I think the "lot to answer for" may refer to ALMOND. -ausman
                 \_ So, can some one give me a link on almond history?
                        \- google for "joy almond" --psb
                    \_ <DEAD><DEAD>  -tom
                        \- hint: there are much more subtle ways to say
                           something bad, and be more effective. That is, if
                           care to be less disliked. So let me try this.
                           Instead of saying "X is a moron/dumbass", say
                           "psb has failed prank and humor miserably."
                        \- google for "gabriel almond"
                 \- ALMOND was the editor for CEDAR from PARC and OAK which
                    became JAVA and ALMOND became PINE and ELM. You can google
                    for "joy gabriel almond stanford berkeley".
                 \- ALMOND was the editor for OAK which became JAVA
                    and ALMOND became PINE and ELM. You can google for
                    "richard gabriel almond joy".
                 \- i am extremely clever --psb
2005/8/1-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:38908 Activity:nil
8/1     What's a reliable website that tells me approximately where an
        ip address is from?
        \_ whois -a will give you the ARIN registry entry.
        \_ use <DEAD><DEAD> - danh
        \_ use - danh
        \_ use <DEAD><DEAD> - danh
2005/7/25-27 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:38802 Activity:low
7/25    I'm wondering what people's favorite test editors are under Windows.
        Notepad has terrible performance on very large ascii or binary files,
        (X)Emacs is very slow-loading, and Vi is not mouse-driven.  Does anyone
        know a fast-loading, mouse driven text editor which handles large
        (multi megabyte) text and binary files nimbly?
        \_ One guy at work uses something called Visual Slick Edit. My
           mom uses jEdit.
        \_ Textpad, I sent in my $30-40.
        \_ How about WordPad?  Better than Notepad but not as full-blown as
           M$ Word.
        \_ How about WordPad?  Better than Notepad but not as bloated as M$
           Word.  I use Emacs21 though.
        \_ Ultraedit32 or nedi under cygwin.  -John
        \_ Last I checked vim does have mouse support.  Googling for
           "notepad replacement" is a fruitfull search but this is a very
           religious topic and I'm not about to endorse any of them. -gabriel
        \_ Standard GNU emacs works great for me. Of course I leave it open
           all the time, but it seems quick to load when I launch it.
        \_ I use textpad, and my colleagues editplus.  I don't know if they
           are good or not, but they work for what I do.
        \_ I've been using vinvi32, which is a decent vi port to windows. Has
           a good balance of mouse/keyboard UI, and is entriely contained in
            a single .exe so installation/removal/management is easy.
            I cannot comment on its abaility to open truly huge files. -ERic
        \_ So anyone want to comment on hte performance of these with large
           files? -op
           \_ On OS X, vim is actually the only thing I've found that
              will read some very large files (even more/less won't handle
              some of them).
        \_ When you're an administrator you don't have time to install
           Cygwin or other UNIXy stuff on 1000s of machines in a 15000
           employee company, so you use whatever you can find.
           I prefer vi for configuration, but usually I use Notepad
           because that's what exists on people's machines.
        \_ Emacs -- made Windows so much more enjoyable for serious development
        \_ Crisp (vertical edits are a breeze with this text editor)
2005/7/19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:38705 Activity:high
7/19    Wow, apparently I've made 249 posts today.  -tse
        \_ kchang is trying to lower the bar for the term 'heuristic.'
           \_ I keep an editor open on motd.public, and I periodically
              reload and save when I do not overwrite.  Ah, the magic of
              \_ I copy the motd to read it and kchang thinks I'm
                 making posts.
                 \_ Hm, according to the log, it says:
        tse vi 58050 7 / 62 -rw-rw-rw- 36564 r /etc/motd.public
        tse vi 2184 3 / 62 -rw-rw-rw- 34298 r /etc/motd.public
        ... so on and so forth ...
                    So, I don't know what you're doing, but the log says
                    you "vi /etc/motd.public", WITH LOCK.  -kchang
                    \_ Yep.  I reload and save without overwriting in a
                       script.  Why?  If I own all the updates, then I own
                       none of the updates.
2005/5/12 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:37662 Activity:very high
5/12    tse, posting over 100 times a day on motd. What do you do for a living?
        \_ % finger -m tse actually yields relatively accurate information.
           Specifically, I'm running regression and closing timing, so I
           spend lots of time in front of a terminal doing not much.  BTW,
           your accounting is likely inaccurate.  I believe I have 5 posts in
           the last 24 hours (6 counting this one), though I tend to keep a
           vi around, so I assume lots of "anonymous" updates are credited to
           the last 24 hours (6 counting this one), though I tend to keep a vi
           your accounting is likely inaccurate.   I tend to keep a vi
           around, so I assume lots of "anonymous" updates are credited to me.
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:37175 Activity:kinda low
4/13    80 column is such a 70ish idea! It's year 2005, 3 whole decades
        later.  Come on guys! It's time to move on! Let's move to 110
        columns. As our resolutions get higher and screens get bigger,
        we can easily afford the 1 column per year trend. Let the 110
        column revolution begin!  -Revolutionist
        \_ 80 columns isn't just about vt100; it is hard to visually
           scan longer lines.  -tom
           \_ You know what's even harder to read? Code that spans multiple
              lines. One statement = one line, them's the rules! It produces
              better, more holistically aesthetic code.
              \_ With Java long method and class names and all those objects
                 and fields calling().here().and().calling.there it's kind
                 of hard to avoid it sometimes. Sad.
        \_ Heathen. Submit to 80 columns or the Fortan IV compiler
           shall smite thee!
        \_ Yeah, yeah get in the fuckin truck.  Time for you to go where all
           all the revolutionists go.
        \_ 110 columns?  I thought the next supported size is 132 columns.
           \- what is the max width for "standard vi"?
              \_ I've used traditional vi on fairly wide terminals (at least
                 140 columns); it seems to work fine as long as the terminal
                 width is a multiple of the tab size.  --mconst
2005/3/7-8 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:36566 Activity:nil
3/7     Suggestions for a Tex editor? I've used TeK, and found it lacking.
        any others?  -nivra
        \_ On windows? WINEDT!!!!!! WINEDT is the standard!!!
   If you use it, send the guy his money.
        \- emacs + auctex
        \_ I do all my latex work in vi.  *shrug*.  What do you want your
           editor to do? -- ilyas
        \_ obEDIsTheStandard!Editor!
2005/2/16-17 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:36199 Activity:low
2/16    Is there a way in ksh to set tab to auto-complete filenames as it
        does in bash?
        \_ isn't double-ESC good enough?
           \_ No, double-ESC is like shit. TAB is way better. -!op
        \_ set -o vi (can't have emacs style line editing and TAB,
           in traditional ksh)
        \_ I don't think there is in traditional ksh.  In pdksh,
           set -o vi-tabcomplete
2005/1/31-2/1 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:35990 Activity:kinda low
1/31    What the fuck is wrong with you people who use emacs in "vi mode"?
        Why don't you just use vi???  I hate it when some loser asks me
        to help debug something and I see an emacs window and expect basic
        things, like C-n, to work!
        \_ Just a guess, but I assume people who utilize this probably
           want the additional features of emacs but were trained under
           vi. I personally use both, since you can't always get emacs
           but vi is virtually guarenteed through a telnet session. I,
           however, never utilized vi mode in emacs. I agree with you,
           might as well learn the fricking bind keys to emacs if you're
           going to use it. Emacs and vi are different enough that you
           can differentiate between the two in your brain during usage
           and switch modes accordingly.
        \_ In general I agree w/ you but I really love the elisp that
           lets me use % for paren-matching.
        \_ To taunt people like you...
2005/1/28-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:35967 Activity:very high
1/28    emacs question: How can I specify a keyboard combo for saving
        the file? I find "control x  s" awkward. I would like to use
        "control x  \" instead.
        \_ put this in your .emacs:
           (global-set-key "\C-x\"" 'save-buffer)
           to get rid of C-xs for saving, you can use:
           (global-unset-key "\C-xs")
            \_ Thank you. That's awesome. I tweaked it like this:
                (global-set-key "\C-x\C-\\" 'save-buffer)
                Now it works great. Thanks!
                Now it works great just like jove. Thanks!
        \_ As someone who's switched from jove to emacs (many years ago),
           and also from random package X to random package Y, I urge you
           to learn and use the default bindings. If you don't, you can't
           ever use the package outside of your own environment; your buddy
           says, hey, here, fix this piece of code in my buffer, and you
           can't move the cursor because you defined the move-cursor commands
           to be like the Doom bindings ...    -- one who's been there
           \_ Seconded. I also recommend learning vi to the point
              where you are comfortable editing code using it b/c
              one day you will end up crunched for time and stuck
              on a box w/o emacs and the last thing you want to
              worry about is how to insert text.
              \-In the case of C-xC-s/C-xs, I think it is a good idea
                to stick to those bindings unless there is some weird
                reason not to [like C-q/C-s lossage]. In some other cases
                it may be reasonable to swtich. You know there is nothing
                that says you have to unset C-xs ... I suppose since C-x\
                is not normally bound having both isnt too bad. Re: vi ...
                you probably want to be able to use vi enough to get
                emacs running and do basic edits but that is a long way
                from being able to edit code. In fact the whole approach
                to editing code is different between emacs and vi, so if
                you see them as interchangable [do i use ESC-l, or C-f to
                move to the right], then you are likely not using emacs
                correctly/fully [e.g. M-x compile etc]. --mr. emacs
                \_ My emacs session generally has mh-rmail, gnus,
                   w3c, gdb, compiles and dozens of buffers open
                   at any given time. At one point in my life I
                   used to use emacs client/server regularly.
                   However, I still think that knowing how to switch
                   btwn emacs and vi is a valuable skill (ex i is to
                   insert, a is to append, hjkl is to move, :1 is
                   first line, G is last line, / to pattern match,
                   % is to paren match, this will be good enough
                   for 95% of all problems).
                   \- By all means go for the "95%" but that is a
                      long way from "I am comfortable working on
                      large projects in either emacs or vi and
                      merely prefer emacs."
2004/7/10-11 [Health/Men, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:32207 Activity:low
7/10    why the spammers are ahead:
        \_ boring
2004/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30774 Activity:high
6/12    "It was the team's success in designing a rudimentary word processing
        system using Unix on the PDP-7 that allowed them to get the funds for
        a PDP-11. The word processor proved enourmously useful to Bell Lab's
        patent division." --from an E'ist article on DMR && Bell Labs.
        It's funny how some things stay the same [in terms of who you have
        to make happy for $$$] and the image of lawyers using some precursor
        to ed/troff. ObEdIsStandard. --psb
        \_ Considering that their other choice at the time would have been
           dictating to an army of secretaries with high school educations....
           What do you think they should have done to earn funding?  They
           should have just got money because they were cool?
           \- i think you are missing the spirit in which this was intended.
              i dont suppose you have ever used a line editor.
              \_ I have used a line editor before, having used both ED and
                 EDLIN (in dos).  I wrote most of my school papers using vi
                 and troff, so yes I'm familar with both concepts.  Maybe you
                 can explain 'the spirit' to a low grade moron such as myself?
                 \_ If you'd read the rest of this week's issue, you'd note
                    the Economist is pushing the philosophical idea of open
                    source rather heavily-- both for software development and
                    biological research.  It's funny, then, that Unix, which
                    has been the core focus of the movement, might have been
                    stillborn except for a legal department clamoring for its
                    word processor.  As for line editors, have you used them
                    for legal documents?  It's just odd.  That's all. -!psb
                    \- Mr. LGMoron: First, if you were in a bar at Friday
                       Happy Hour and somebody said "well there goes another
                       weeks of my life working for The Man" would you then
                       week of my life working for The Man" would you then
                       respond "well it is better than being unemployed".
                       Second, it is just funny to think about lawyers
                       using SCCS to collaborate, maintianing their briefs
                       via Makefiles calling tbl | eqn | troff etc. Finally,
                       as I "didnt say" above, given the history of AT&T
                       Unix litigation, it's somewhat ironic they were
                       internally greasing the wheels. --psb
                   \_  Man, you need to get laid or something. If you didn't
                       find the Dilbertesque situation of this historical
                       factoid funny and you used vi/troff to do your homework
                       you must still be a virgin. --williamc
2004/3/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:12540 Activity:moderate
3/5     Why is that when I edit the motd with VI, When I save, sometimes it
        says it's been modified, use "!" to override.  I thought when I use
        vi to edit it, I get a lock on the file.
        \_ Because the motd is a gloriously free file.  the entire world can
           and does edit it.
        \_ If you have a lock, no one else *should* edit it, but they can.
           Since they basically just stomped on your privelidge, I usually just
           stomp on their changes.
           \_ you shouldn't get a lock when you're editing the file. you could
              be taking your sweet time typing stuff in, while other people are
              waiting. when you're finally ready to save, your editor should
              tell you if the file has changed on disk, and you can reload the
              file and merge your changes if that's true. [formatd]
              \_ That's acceptable in a development environment.  in practice,
                 on a machine with hundreds of users, this is much more
                 difficult to accomplish.  --scotsman
                 difficult to accomplish.
                 \_ in practice, on soda, it works fine for me.
                    \_ I'm not talking about "you".  I'm talking about communal
                    \_ I'm not talking about "you".  I'm talking about communal
                       use. --scotsman
                       \_ umm, i am saying this would work fine on soda for
                          communal use, dimwit. the motd isn't *that* contended
                          \_ Again.  Not. Everyone. Uses. The. Same. Editor.
                             Not everyone on here has the same technical
                             ability.  Are you going to personally train
                             everyone who accesses the motd? --scotsman
                             \_ you're dumb too, or can't read. i may have used
                                too many words to describe it, but this is one
                                of the simplest schemes possible if you still
                                want to be polite. simpler schemes generally
                                involve locking the file for yourself for
                                protracted lengths of time, or just going ahead
                                and overwriting other people's changes.
                                \_ You're very clearly not actually reading what
                                   anyone has said.  We know your side of the
                    \_ I'm not talking about "you".  I'm talking about communal
                          communal use, dimwit. the motd isn't *that* contended
                                   argument, but there are points to it you
                                   are ignoring or dismissing.  This is my
                                   last word on it. --scotsman
           \_ are you saying when you start up your editor on the motd, you
              do get a note saying it's been locked?  Actually, VI is very
              good, if the file you are view is locked, it tells you its
              in read-only mode.
              \_ Not every editor is as helpful as vi.  some don't even tell you
                 that the file on disk has changed.  this is what motdedit has
                 tried to address, but it's a difficult task, and the current
                 motdedit has trouble when people remove sections. --scotsman
                \_ so motdedit is trying to allow multiple edit sessions and
                   merging them?
                            \_ same as always.
                   \_ Only if you run motdedit -n or some jackass modifies
                      the motd without using motdedit.
                   \_ Only if you run motdedit -n or some jackass modifies
                      the motd without using motdedit.
                      \_ until motdedit is mandatory, motedit is an 'option'.
                         people who choose a different option from you are
                         not automatically assholes.
                         \_ so now what's the argument to not use motdedit?
                            just out of spite?
                            \_ same as always.
2004/2/28-3/1 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:12445 Activity:nil
2/28    I'm one of those jerks who still vi /etc/motd.public and I'd like
        to change to this motdmerge thing. Where is it located?
        \_ /csua/bin/me
2004/2/12 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:12219 Activity:nil
2/11    When I do vi-mode, after a while it escapes and returns to emacs
        mode. How do I make it stick?
        \_ wtf are you talking about exactly?
           \_ If you have to ask, you don't know.  And don't bother answering.
              \_ your question is badly worded in the first place. i guess
                 you don't realize there are other programs that have both
                 a vi mode and an emacs mode.
                \_ ESC-x vi-mode
2003/12/3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:11289 Activity:nil
12/2    Anyone play puzzlepirates?
        \_ wouldn't you rather play buttpirates instead?
           \_ you mean that game you invoke by typing vi /etc/motd.public?
2003/11/13 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:29633 Activity:nil
11/13   vi .login
        delete "more /etc/motd" line
        Goodbye fuckers!  Its been a terrible six years, lemme tell ya!
        \_ vi .login
           alias m more /etc/motd.public  <esc>
           m .... m ... m
        \_ shouldn't you just be touch'ing .hushlogin?
        \_ wow, what a dufus.  as if the rest of us hadn't done that and
           made aliases in the first week we had an account.  i doubt we'll
           miss you or your mad tek skillz.
2003/11/4 [Politics/Domestic, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:29605 Activity:high
11/3    vi vs. emacs: which is for liberals and which is for conservatives?
        \_ Fuck you earthlings and your stupid bipolar politics. We are Borg,
           we use MS Visual Studio. We are the .NET, we are the collective.
           You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
        \_ ED IS THE STANDARD!
           \_ IFILE!
        \_ With (s)ED! and awk you don't need anything else.  vi & emacs are
           for l0sers!
        \_ emacs is definitely the epitome of liberal government.  It's a great
           OS, if only it had a good editor.  vi's philosophy is more like the
           do one job and do it well approach (smaller government).
           \_ glad to see you've fully bought into the ridiculous political
           \_ is vim the neocon approach?  We pretend to be small, but we
              keep doing stupid shit just to drive you crazy?
              \_ Pretend to be small?
-rwxr-xr-t  2 root  wheel  3172672 Dec  8  2001 /usr/local/bin/emacs*
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  1146252 Dec  2  2002 /usr/local/bin/vim*
-r-xr-xr-x  6 root  wheel  279020 Jan 21  2003 /usr/bin/nvi*
        \_ libertarians just cat directly to the device
2003/8/16 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:29373 Activity:nil
8/16    I don't have particularly strong opinion about editors and I don't
        plan to be an expert of any one, but there seem to be many of that
        on the motd.  So here is a question for you: why nobody mention
        or flame about nedit?  I use it when I am using unix and X.  It seems to
        do most of what I wanted though by no mean not all, but since I don't
        know how to make vi or emacs to do all that I wanted either, it seems
        fine.  Do anybody else use nedit?
2003/8/15-16 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:29361 Activity:high
8/15    Is it really worth it for me to learn emacs?  I've been
        getting by with pico and vi for years and years and am pretty
        busy, but there sure seem to be a lot of emacs fans.
        Is there things i can't do because i don't use emacs?
        Is there uber-cool cvs plugins i should be using that i can't
        get for vi?  I know i'm risking a religious war, but i really
        am just asking and want to know. -phuqm
        \- you can use one of the vi-emulations in emacs. although i think
           they will bea little tricky to use if you know 0 emacs. --psb
        Is there things i can't do because i don't use emacs?
        Is there uber-cool cvs plugins i should be using that i can't
        get for vi?  I know i'm risking a religious war, but i really
        am just asking and want to know. -phuqm
         \_ what do you mean you're not a troll?  you don't even exist- danh
            \_ how can he be a troll if he doesn't exist? how did he post
               all that stuff if he doesn't exist?  what are you talking
        \_ I only use emacs, but there are many people here at my company
           who only use vi and they get by fine.
            \_ well, i get by fine too, but sometimes one "gets by"
               on american cheese 'cause he doesn't know that real cheese
               exists.  If there really is some spread-sheet hook (as
               discussed below) and/or other cool/powerful things about
           \_ I used RMAIL and then VMail in emacs and I loved it.  But now at
               emacs, then maybe it is worth learning. -phuqm
               \_ who moved my cheese!?!?
                  \_ what color is your cheese?
                  \_ please don't start that here
                     \_ that was a joke. your consternation is more of a
                        conversation starter than the joke
                        \_ you dont want to know
        \_ I use emacs when coding several files. I use vi for making small
           edits to those files or for writing perl/bash scripts. vi has the
           advantage in that it is quick to load and on almost every unix box.
           My big three pros about Emacs are
           1. fancy syntax highlighting
           \_ vi also has
           2. mouse support (!) if you running X or Windows
           \_ This is a plus?  Free yourself from the mouse.  You'll get more
              \_ Does emacs support a joystick?
           3. auto-tabbing
           \_ vi also has
           There are a million other features, those are just my favorites.
           \_ I used RMAIL and then VMail in emacs and I like them.  But now at
              this job I'm forced to use Outlook.
           \_ I concur. vi for stuff like our beloved motd. emacs for several
              C/Perl/language-du-jour files
        \_ This is kind of OT, but something I've always wanted: the major
           drawback (for me) with emacs was the setup process.  Once I had
           syntax highlighting, auto-tabbing, find-this-method-definition,
           etc., things were SUPERB.  But getting there, and staying
           there, has never been easy, and I'm currently using Eclipse,
           which I like.  Are there any quick and easy "distributions"
           of emacs that are well-polished and targetted to, say, java
           and jsp, or C/C++, or XML development?
        \_ I hated emacs setup and chording until I got RSI.  Now I happily use
           Vim, and have everything I liked about emacs in Vim out-of-the-box
           with the exception of gdb integration.
2003/7/2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:28905 Activity:high
7/2     FOBs use more of their brains than us:
        \_ this is interesting.
        \_ I've always known this. I kick ass in school when my ABC &
           whitie friends struggle to get to top 5% of the class.  -fob
           \_ umm, by your reasoning, abc's who speak chinese will do
              about as well as you. whereas your inferior english probably
              probably puts you at a disadvantage is some cases.
                \_ abc's in general don't speak mandarin very well. Their
                   vocab is limited to "hello", "i'm hungry", "i'm full",
                   "i want more rice", and "goodnight." You're right.
                   Superior grade doesn't get me very far in the industry.
                   Mingling, backstabbing, climbing up the corporate
                   ladder require good social skills. That's why I'm still
                   just a petty programmer.     -fob
                        \_ qu si ba. -abc
                   \_ No you're a petty programmer because you don't understand
                   \_ ABCs are better because they spend their college
                      years "networking" rather than focusing on grades:
                      ni hun kuh ai, ni hun piow-liang,
                      wo shiang ching ni chu-lai? ni shiang tiow-wu ma?
                      wo shiang ni, wo yow ni, wo ai ni.
                        \_ Bi zui ba. Bai chi. -abc
                      \_ I'm white, but at least i fucking know
                         proper use of pinyin. jackass.
           \_ I always laughed at how hard the FOBs worked to get into the
              top 25% while I coasted through in the top 1%.  --whitie
                \_ zi da lao wai, chi si ba.
              \- i think "use more of their brain" doesnt mean much.
                 if anything it suggests it is more expensive to process
                 mandarin. is emacs better than vi because it takes up
                 "more" memory? anyway, on the fob question, there is a
                 big selection bias in terms of who comes over. in other
                 words, you have to do to india to find stupid indians. --psb
                        \_ disagree.  Brain grows so it becomes second nature.
                                Always better to use more brain. -abc
                           \_ No.  Your brain doesn't grow when you speak
                              Mandarin.  It isn't a matter of opinion.  Maybe
                              you could read the link next time, eh?
                 \_ Indians: really?  I've met *plenty* of stupid Indians here
                    and the others *always* cover for them no matter how bad
                    they are, how much it hurts other people including them-
                    selves or even kills the company.  Loyalty, not smarts
                    seems to be the #1 trait of Indians in SV.
                    \- i think you are over racheting. yeah some might not
                       wite good code, but i dont think you will find many
                       indians who cannot find say canada on a map or cant
                       tell you what change should be from $5 on a $3.93
                       purchase. --psb
2003/6/7-8 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:28665 Activity:high
6/7     What are some programs that can automatically word wrap (like how
        pine does it)?
        \_ pico
        \_ emacs
        \_ emacs, pico, vi, any vi clone, any emacs clone, any word processor
           written in the last 20 years
           \_ to be fair, emacs and vi aren't exactly helpful about doing it.
              For emacs M-x auto-fill-mode toggles word wrap, M-q rewraps
              the lines if you add into the middle of the paragraph, and
              in general it is kinda a pain in the ass.  I forget how to
              do it in vi.
              \_ How is M-q any more difficult than, say, Pico's C-j? If you
                 want constant word-wrapping, use a real word processor.
                 \_ word-wrap is enabled in pico by default.
                    \_ and emacs auto-fill can be stuck in .emacs.
                    \_ and auto word wrap can be inserted into .emacs
                       \_ duh.  I didn't say it couldn't.  the point is that
                          it's not emacs' default behavior.
          \_ As for vim, use: set tw=N (number of characters per line).
             The "gq" command in vi mode formats unformated lines (over line
             ranges if you like) . You can also configure it to use set tw=X
             automatically when you open certain types of files (e.g. only
             when editing mail messages and /etc/motd.public
             \_ and if you don't run vim, you can pipe to fmt:
                 !}fmt -72<return>
                pipes the content of the file from point to the end of the
                paragraph to fmt. you can also bind this to a key.
             \_ why would anyone want to word wrap when editing /etc/motd.public?
                \_ nice.
2003/5/11-12 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:28406 Activity:very high
5/11    Don't use motdedit and die a painful death.
        \_ Uhm, how about "Fuck off and Die" or "Suck my ass, beyotch" as
           rebuttals to your oh so convincing argument.
        \_ whatever.  it isn't mandatory so screw you.  you can't control
           the motd so why bother trying?
            \_ Why be nice? Because it is BETTER if everybody is polite.
        \_ aside from that cute little check for kinney drivle, why is this
           any better than vi? vi also locks the file while its open.
           \_ vi plays nice with motdedit, but other things do not play
              nice with vi.  this is why motdedit exists.  Try "me" if
              motdedit takes too long to type. --scotsman
2003/3/28-29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:27897 Activity:kinda low
3/28    restored after rude vi user (to remain unnamed for now) smashed over
        motd like the rude prick he is.
        \_ Learn to use me like everyone else, dumbass.
           \_ Go stick your head in a pig!
           \_ Idiot.  I was following the rules of politeness, moron.  The
              dumbshit vi user is the one who flattened the motd.  Are you ESL
              or something?
              \_ He's an 'me' user.  He's too busy being high-handed and
                 sanctimonious to actually READ the post ue's using as an
                 excuse to tout his superiority.
              \_ Everytime I use me to lock the motd, some fool writes on it
                 while I have it checked out.
                 Should I go to the trouble to merge their comments with mine
                 or should I just overwrite them? I chose the latter. If you
                 are not willing to use the tools provided to allow
                 co-operative access, you really have no reason to complain
                 when your drivel gets written over.
                 \_ except in this case it was raw vi, no 'me' so nice talking
                    to you.
2003/3/26 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:27859 Activity:nil
3/26    If you wonder why people always talk about "ed":
2003/3/22-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:27801 Activity:insanely high
3/21    Seriously guys, can you please start using motdedit?  It's pretty
        rude not to.
                \_ The motd is a commons, while most people respect the
                   rights of others to use a commons some people do not.
                   And those few spoil the commons for everyone. Its a
                   tragedy that we must all live with.
        \_ Uhm, no.  Let's get this straight -- clobbering content is rude.
           Using motdedit is just ONE way to avoid doing that.  Equating
           motdedit with common courtesy is just stupid.         -mice
        \_ Apologies to the authors, but fuck motdedit in the ear.
           \_ because?
              \_ Because it's a solution to a problem I don't have, and
           \_ Why should I show any respect for you since you obviously
              don't care about anyone but yourself?
                 because I'm irritated by the holier than thou preachy
                 assholes that insist I'm rude/stupid/selfish if I don't use
                 it.  I don't overwrite other people's entries, and I can't
                 seem to recall getting mine overwritten either.  I use vi.
                 \_ Um.. case in point.  My reply to your eloquently stated
                    "fuck motdedit..." was overwritten. --scotsman
                    \_ Uhm, yeah and...?  You say this as though it's my
                       fault.  I find it highly unlikely that I was
                       responsible as you seem to be implying.  cf "vi",
                       "respecting locks", etc
                       \_ society's to blame.  But your insecurities are in
        \_ you rude shit.  you motdedited out stuff that's been sitting here
           for 20 minutes.  using motdedit doesn't excuse smashing other's
        \_ path?
           \_ /csua/bin/me
                          the way of getting the point.
                          \_ So, lacking anything relevant to say, you trot
                             out personal insults.  Uhm, yeah, whatever.
                             \_ this is someone else talking, but vi guy:
                                have you tried "me"?  It's the same as
                                motdedit, requires less typing than
                                "vi /etc/motd.public" and uses an editor
                                agnostic locking scheme.  I don't know about
                                preachiness, but it seems like a simple
                                compromise.  Is there anything that vi offers
                                that "me" doesn't?
           \_ Dude, motdedit is a technical solution to a difficult usage
              problem.  If you don't like someone overwriting your entries,
              you should start using it.  I would bet that most of the
              overwritten entries are caused when someone using emacs or
              jove makes an entry while someone is using motdedit.  The
              person not using motdedit loses out.  Use it or don't, but
              quit the complaining. --scotsman
              \_ I use motdedit w/ vi and my entries are routinely
              \_ I don't use it.  I also don't over write other's entries and
                 don't complain when other's over write mine.
                 And btw, what do you have against vi users?  Can't they get
                 their edits smushed too?  Or pine?  Don't pine users count?
                 How to edit motd in pine??
                 \_ If you have to ask, you don't know.  The problem is that
                    editors such as emacs and pico don't tell you that there's
                    a lock on the file (at least by default), so you very
                    well could be overwriting someone else's entry without
                    knowing it.  And I use vi myself, so I have no idea what
                    you're talking about.  If you use vi, it respects those
                    locks anyway, so motdedit becomes a convenience in terms
                    of getting your own lock.  motdedit isn't a replacement
                    for common courtesy.  Using it, however, _is_ common
                    courtesy. --scotsman
                    \_ I don't know about pico, but emacs always warns me
                       that I'm about to change a file that has changed on
                       disk. When it does that, I copy my changes to
                       *scratch* and merge them back.
                       \_ Not the issue. --scotsman
                 \_ huh?  you can use whatever editor you want.  just set
                    \_ And ED! What about the ED! users?
        \_ Stick you head in a pig.
        \_ how about root just makes /etc/motd.public writeable by motdedit
2003/3/5-6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:27604 Activity:high
3/5     VI people, please ignore:
        I have defined a function (well, copied from the web) using
        (defun jsp-mode() .....), dump it into my .emacs file
        how to call it explicitly in emacs? M-x then?
        (and no, i dont' know how to hook my jsp-mode to .jsp file)
        \_ VI people how to ignore?  Maybe VI people knowing how to, eh?
           Some people how to knowing multiple editor environments!  --howto
           \_   I do have multimode.el.  I did managed to get jsp mode to work
                but I still don't know how to call functions which
                explicitly defined in the .emacs file.
                \_ Explicity defined is managed getting jsp mode work but not
                   how to doing explicit function call VI!
        \_ You weenies and your interative editors.  SED is the STANDARD!
        \_ You weenies and your interactive editors.  SED is the STANDARD!
            \_ Real Men(c) don't make speling mistakes!
            \_ Your interactive editor incorrectly assumed "interactive"
               instead of "iterative."
2003/1/27 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:27206 Activity:high
1/26    I learned vi:
        \_ Never: ..
        \_ By choice: ...
        \_ Because of necessity: ..
        \_ Because I wasn't MAN enough to use ED!: .
        \_ Because I was a systems administrator: .
2003/1/24-2005/12/3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:10000 Activity:nil 50%like:25321
FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE (MKVI) #2: Tue Jan 21 12:42:54 PST 2003

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2002/8/28 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:25710 Activity:kinda low
8/27    When I cut & paste a bunch of text to an xterm that's ssh'd to csua,
        a lot of text disappears, but when I telnet to csua, it works just
        fine. Why is this?
        \_ What are you pasting it to?  raw terminal?  vi?  with raw terminal,
           I've seen this action, and i suspect it has to do with some tty
           buffer problem.  if i paste the same thing into vi or something
           that handles tty input more carefully, it'll work.
2002/7/10-2003/1/22 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:25321 Activity:nil 50%like:10000 62%like:22027 57%like:23891
FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE-p1 (MKVI) #2: Fri Jul  5 18:11:14 PDT 2002

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2002/7/4-5 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/RevisionControl, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:25278 Activity:moderate
7/3     What is a good free project management tool in Unix?  This is for
        personal projects, so it doesn't have to be that fancy.
        \_ emacs, jove, vi, etc.
           \_ those are editors, not project management tools.  i think he
              means cvs, maybe even rcs.  If you want something like crystal
              reports, you're out of luck.  And please don't say, "ED is an
              editor" because that is just old, trite, and oversaid.  ok thx.
2002/6/12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:25077 Activity:high
6/11    hmm... why don't people use motdedit?
> w hkg
USER             TTY      FROM              LOGIN@  IDLE WHAT
hkg              Gd       http://bighome.netlogic 10:42AM  4:31 vi /etc/motd.public
        \_ why should they?
           \_ A locking mechanism. Common courtesy. To not be a h0zer.
              \_ I have no locking problems with emacs (I don't lock
                 people out, and no one locks me out) and if my posts
                 get overwritten once in a while its okay.
                 \_ I use a different method but I also don't overwrite other
                    people's stuff and I'm ok with it if my stuff gets smushed
                    sometimes.  Where did the motdedit Nazis come from anyway?
                    \_ just trying to make it easier for you to do the right
                       thing. --god
                       \_ ve haf our vayz!
        \_ because they don't.  Roll the Bones.  Roll the bones.
2002/4/22-23 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:24536 Activity:high
4/22    All you's emacs/pico wielding motd editors.  Try using /csua/bin/me.
        Those of us using vi much appreciate it.
        \_ emacs and pico doesn't lock the files?
           \_ Nope.  not by default.  in fact, they both make temporary copies
              to work on, then overwrite the existing file, ignoring flocks.
              \- emacs has a central locking dir but only other emacsen use
              it. also emacs will notice that the file changed under you
              while you were editing, you the user has to confirm the over
                \_ and people always overwrite because they don't want to
                retype what they typed; and don't know how to copy what they
                have typed and reload the file.  I get the same problem with
                vi, but I'll just copy and reload the file when it becomes
                writable, then paste where I left off.
                \_ 1. Set the mark: Ctrl-SPACE
                   2. Move to the end of your text
                   3. Save the text: M-x clipboard-kill-ring-save
                   4. Get the new motd: M-x revert-buffer
                   5. Paste in your text: Ctrl-y
                \_ I do this^. Don't paint me with your broad brush!
2002/4/16-17 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:24454 Activity:very high
4/16    What text edtior on PC do you use for (la)texing?
           \_ Sorry... that should be:
              ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!! ... LaTeX editor.
           \_ I was starting to wonder when that would appear....
        \_ winedt, which is more than just a text editor.  it's
           shareware, and although you can get away with it's use
           for free, it's one of the few shareware programs i think
           almost everyone pays for because it's so insanely awsome.
           let me add that this is what actual scientists who just
           need to get work done use. if you are some kind of
           unix nut who need to prove how big your nuts are, see below.
        \_ emacs. -alexf
        \_ gvim - darin
        \_ vi -jon
        \_ textpad. it rocks.
        \_ http://DEBUG.COM - njh
           \_ That's a text editor?
                \_ No but since it can edit memory and write to a file it can
                   be used as one.  Sort of.  In a sick sort of way.
        \_ nvi -geordan
2002/4/4-5 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:24324 Activity:nil
4/3     This speaks for itself:
        crebbs          -       vi geekcode.312
        I love the CSUA.
2002/3/7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:24045 Activity:nil
3/6     Korn shell filename completion under emacs-mode is <esc><esc>.
        That doesn't seem to work under vi-mode.  How do you do filename
        completion under vi-mode?
        \_ tcsh; <tab>
2002/2/17-7/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:23891 Activity:nil 50%like:22027 57%like:25321
FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE (MKVI) #0: Sat Feb 16 12:46:17 PST 2002

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2002/2/7-8 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:23808 Activity:high
2/7     In Jove, I would like to bind-to-key "set-right-margin 50"
        to a key stroke. How do I do this? I can only see how to
        bind-to-key a simple command.
        \_ I've been using jove for 10+ years and have no idea at all how to
           do that.  I use jove as a simple text editor.  When I change the
           margins once every 2 years I do it by hand.  If you want more than
           what jove has to offer use emacs or vi.  I use vi when I want an
           editor that does stuff.
2001/12/19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:23298 Activity:nil
12/18   Emacs users -- how well do you know vi?
        \_ well enough to do sysadmin work.
        \_ I know vi enough to do editing and search and replace.
           I use vi for trivial editing tasks. I use emacs for all
           serious coding.
        \_ Well enough to edit my crontab.  Not much else.
        vi users -- how well do you know emacs?
        \_ well enough to not want to install it to do sysadmin work.
        \_ I use vi for everything but coding. What does that make me? -coder
        \_ I used emacs before I used vi, so there are some rudimentary
           memories of emacs knowledge in my head somewhere. -geordan
2001/11/7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:22959 Activity:nil
11/6    Can someone please kill williamc's vi process that is locking
        the motd?
2001/8/30-31 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:22294 Activity:very high
8/30    what is the best editor for motd entries?
        \_ ed
        \_ emacs.  It warns you if you try to save to the file or start
           editing it after someone else has modified it, so you won't
           overwrite someone else's posting.
           \_ vi does this as well.
        \_ motdedit. lets you use any editor you want.
              $EDITOR environment variable to whatever you want, and then
              use motdedit!
              \_ bzzt.. this would be the right answer if motd.public were
                 not world writable.  better rule of thumb.  If your editor
                 has to ask you to confirm (:w!,^X^Sy), then don't write it.
                 Learn to be polite, and play nice.  Then we won't need some
                 badly written perl script to baby us.  --scotsman
                 \_ Here's something I should have asked a long time ago.
                    What is the nice way to save edits to the motd when you
                    find you need to w! to write? My apologies if this is
                    in an obvious faq somewhere.
                    \_ :w filename   -- misha.
                 \_ motdedit places a lock on the motd.public file for
                    you; so use it.
                    \_ so does vi. --scotsman
                       \_ Your assessment on motdedit is not the best
                          solution becaue motd.public is world writable is
                          false.  I was just pointing that out.
                 \_ Assholes are always locking it after I grab it, so I have
                    no choice.
                    \_ Track them down and chastise them. --scotsman
                    \_ fstat is a powerful command!
                       \_ people who use emacs don't show up in fstat
                          \_ they should use vi then.
                             \_ no, they should use 'diff'.
        \_ pico.
2001/8/7-2002/2/16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:22027 Activity:nil 57%like:20502 50%like:23891 62%like:25321
FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE (MKVI) #1: Sun Jul 29 13:58:58 PDT 2001

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2001/8/2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21991 Activity:high
8/2     How do you get vi to autowrap lines at n characters per line?  Let's
        say 72 for example's sake.
        \_ :set wrapmargin=n where n is some number.
           \_ Thanks.  Incidentally, on my vi it turned out to be
              :set wrapmargin=(80 - n)
              but your answer got me on the right path.
2001/6/22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21597 Activity:moderate
6/21    How do I make Emacs format a block of text to fit within a certain
        number of columns (by inserting newlines, etc)?
        \_ M-x set-goal-column 70, M-x fill-paragraph.  See C-x C-n and M-q.
           --- yuen
        \_ ^X^Cvi !$^M!}fmt 70 75^M
           \_ How do I get vi to automatically color code and indent C
              files without using the default 8 position tabs? How do
              I load up multiple files under vi so that I can juxtapose
              them. How do I get gdb to automatically bring up the
              source file and mark the location under vi? vi isn't the
              damn panacea to all things. I use vi when I need to edit
              things quickly but I don't use it to write mail or write
              very large code.
              \_ color, autoindent: vim
                 set sw=4
                 map! ^V^I ^V^T
                 multiple files?  :E in nvi; probably something else in vim
                 gdb inside?  vide
2001/5/12 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21252 Activity:nil
2001/5/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21224 Activity:nil
5/9     I'm having trouble getting vi on OpenBSD to load .exrc/.virc.
        Anyone have a similar experience?
        \_ Make sure you do not have an $EXINIT or $NEXINIT environment
           variable set.
           \_ Thanks!  I think that worked.
2001/4/24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21074 Activity:high
4/22    Warning: Emacs is dangerous to your left pinky
        \_ Warning: vi is dangerous
        \_ This is crying out for ED! but I'm not going to do it.
2001/4/18 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:21020 Activity:kinda low
4/18    Is there an easy way to do an emacs-style text-fill in vi?
        \_ Not really.  ":set autowrap" is the best you can do.
          \_ Which version of vi supports this option? solaris and debian
             came up with errors.
        \_ :!fmt can do that in vi...
          \_ Thank you.
2001/3/15-16 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:20809 Activity:nil
3/15    How do I prevent emacs from adding newlines when I scroll past the end
        of a buffer? Also, is there a way to have it put tildes or something to
        represent non-existing lines like vi? Thanks. --lazy bastard
        \_ ^X^Cvi !^^M
        \- use Joe Wells' package --psb
        ;; Improved next-line command.
        ;; Created by: Joe Wells,
        ;; Filename: next-line-fix.el
        ;; Purpose: improved next-line to answer everyone's prayers
        ;; 1. Doesn't add lines at end of buffer unless you want it to.
        ;; 2. Can be configured with a maximum number of lines to add ...
        \_ nevermind, i just rtfm and found (setq next-line-add-newlines nil)
           what's this joe wells thing do? --lazy bastard (u guys still owe me
           the tilde solution though)
           \_ I haven't seen the Joe Wells thing, but custom changes like that
              were needed for those of us using Emacs 18 in the past where
              next-line-add-newlines didn't exist.  -- yuen
              \- i guess i chopped this part:
              ;; Copyright (C) 1991, 1992 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
              so i suppose jbw's stuff was integrated into the main dist at
              some point. i dunno if joe is still writing elisp but he was one
              of those people who wrote all good stuff. --psb
2001/2/6-8/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:20502 Activity:nil 57%like:22027
FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE (MKVI) #0: Thu Feb  1 03:41:03 PST 2001

Welcome to Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 donated by AMD.
2001/1/19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:20371 Activity:low
1/19    If i use vi as my EDITOR motdedit tells me the file is already
        locked (but opens it for editing anyway), _every_ time, even
        when it is NOT being edited.  What's up?
        \_ env EXINIT="set nolock" motdedit
2000/11/26-29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19916 Activity:nil
**/**   Welcome to Soda Mark VI.  Things may work differently now.  Deal.
               This computer, an Athlon/700, was donated by AMD.
2000/11/20-26 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19855 Activity:nil 63%like:19789
11/16   Thanks to AMD for donating Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 with 768M RAM.
        Thanks to the CS dep't & the TDA project for the 160+GB of disk.
2000/11/16-19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:19789 Activity:nil 63%like:19855
11/16   Thanks to AMD for donating Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 with
        768M memory.
2000/11/13-14 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19755 Activity:very high
11/13   Damn it!  Everytime soda gets rebooted, I get a bunch of messages
        saying that nvi saved the file /etc/pw.??????.  These files don't exist
        anymore, but I still get the email!  How can I get this email message
        to stop?
        \_ For each file, run "vi -r filename" and then exit vi.
        \_ try runnin this:                     -ERic
                find /var/tmp/vi.recover -user `whoami` | xargs -t rm
2000/11/1-2 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19627 Activity:moderate
11/1    There s/b a goddam five minute limit to vi-ing the motd.public
        that's you peterl
        \_ don't fucking lock the motd you assmonkey
         \_ mmm, assmonkeys...  -aspo
2000/10/17 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19509 Activity:nil
10/17   Mark VI >> Mark EMACS
        \_ Mark ED! Mark ED! Mark ED is the STANDARD!!! Mark. Mark?...
2000/10/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19506 Activity:very high
10/16   I've noticed that my connection to soda has become more and more
        laggy.  A traceroute yields:

 4  http://GE.cory-gw.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (  1.513 ms  2.688 ms  1.718 ms
 5  http://gig8-1.snr1.CS.Berkeley.EDU (  1.878 ms  2.186 ms  3.110 ms
 6  http://soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (  73.560 ms  11.496 ms  12.904 ms

        Is this another artifact of old hardware that will be solved with Mark
        \_ No.
                \_ The .43 subnet is shared and overloaded. Blame the XCF
                   and every prof you ever had who thought it was OK to run
                   windows and use exceed to run programs remotely from unix.
                   \_ Are they still doing that crap? -cal alum
                   \_ granted, the XCF probably has right to use the net
                      since they do something useful like host
                        \_ gimp?  Who cares about gimp?  Who decides that gimp
                           is a good use of bandwidth?
                           \_ Gimp seems to me to be a bloated piece of GNU
                              crap. I haven't been able to do a single useful
                              piece of work with it. The pict editor in WP or
                              MSW blows it away. So what if its GNU/OSS/Free.
                              Sometimes commerical is better. After being a
                              die hard member of the Linux crowd, the thing
                              that I learnt was that most of these people don't
                              understand RMS's almost communist view of how
                              software should be written. -recovering Linux user
                                        \_ Ho!!! Almost COMMUNIST!  Gee if only
                                           america were almost capitalist
                                           instead of almost corporatist
                                        \_ sure it isn't more anarchist?
                                \_ uh, gimp is analagous to photoshop, not
                                   to a pict editor.  If you don't understand
                                   the difference, perhaps you're better off
                                   with an OS for morons.  -tom
                                      \_ Let me put it to you in a way that
                                         you can understand. I can use VI to
                                         edit/create pictures/photos better than
                                         GIMP. I can't believe how bloated
                                         GIMP, GTK and Gnome are. What
                                         ever happened to people writing clean
                                         high performance code that did not
                                         require every available clock cycle
                                         in order to run?
                                   \_ and anyone who uses photoshop
                                      professionally would be an idiot to
                                      try to use gimp for the same ends.
                                      Gimp is a cool piece of software for
                                      playing aorund with if you are just
                                      geeking away with it, but photoshop it
                                      is not... by a long shot.
                                      \_ GIMP isn't even as good as PS 2.0,
                                         forget about anything reasonably
                              \_ Communism rulez.  Too bad it doesn't work.
                                 Have you read the Communist Manifesto?
                                 You could get free sex under Communism,
                                 you know.
                                 \_ We used to call it "rape".
                                 \_ If it involves people being forced to
                                    have sex, I want no part of it.
                                 \_ Perhaps if you are a sodan male who
                                    can't get laid and can only think about
                                    getting laid (rather than freedom,
                                    liberty, prosperity, etc) then COMMUNISM
                                    is right for you.
2000/10/2-3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19394 Activity:high
10/02   What kind of hardware will Mark VI have?
        \_ 22 386/25s. We're going to run a new experimental SMP OS called
           Dynix/PTX 4.0.1
                \_ That was mark iv, not vi.
                        \_ We're hauling it "out of the closet" for reinstation
                           as soda.csua.
                        \_ Will emacs be allowed on mark vi?
                           \_ NO, it will be replaced with a symlink to ED!
                              ED!!  ED IS THE STANDARD!!!!  TEXT EDITOR.
                                \_ This only works if you get it right.
        \_ I'm wondering if I had anything to do with that... I knew that guy
           since junior high school before he freaked out and became a
           Catholic Socialist terrorist.
           \_ who the fuck are you? You can't take credit if you don't sign
              your name. -- sqwrt, keeper of vowels
2000/9/18-19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19280 Activity:moderate
9/18    Is there a simple way to turn on line numbering in the all mighty
        \_ Not sure if this is what you're asking for but it's something
           Alt-X line-number-mode.  Don't know a shortcut.
           \_ This should be meta-x line-number-mode.  But it doesn't
              give you line numbers in the buffer, only in the modeline.
        \_ What I want is line numbers in the buffer, like in vi or jove.
           \_ You can't.  Use vi or jove.
2000/9/5-7 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19174 Activity:kinda low
9/5     Anyone ever compiled nvi for windows, or know where one can obtain
        a binary?  I am sick and tired of using vim.
        \_ tried winvi yet?  I think its cute and it even has a binary editor
           mode.  -ERic
           \_ I want to run vi from bash.  I don't want a stupid full-featured
              bloated piece of shit like vim.
                \_ Uhm, winvi = vim?
2000/9/5-6 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19171 Activity:insanely high
9/5     How do you do a search and replace for a newline character in vi?
        vi doesn't seem to like either ^M or \n.
        \_ You can't. :s, just like sed operates on one line at a time.
           Use :join instead.
           \_ You can use :%s.  % meaning "for each line"
        \_ you write a macro which s/$/, then use [count]J   -ali
             \_ Yes, but it is still doing that one line at a time.
                It is not going to match anything if you
                run something like :%s/foo$bar//
                \_ Duud, that wasn't the question.
        \_ you substitute $, then use [count]J   -ali
        \_ Type control-v to escape, then type control-m for the newline.
           \_ That doesn't work in searches, only inserts and macros.  On
              searches it (rightly) finds ^M's (carriage returns).  You can't
              replace newlines because : mode is line based, so you'd have
              to give ex commands to merge lines.
        \_ Doesnt make sense.
        \_ Doesnt make sense. When you :wq, the newlines reappear.
           What are you trying to replace? Like Solaris "/usr/bin/unix2dos"
           or "/usr/bin/dos2unix"? Does  :set list  help you? Or :g/$/s//FEOL/
2000/8/22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19067 Activity:very high
8/22    Shouldn't we all just use view instead of vi to view/edit the motd?
        If I'm using view, other people can still open the motd and edit
        it, as can I. ---ranga
        \_ Use less or more to read the motd.
        \_ As the above says.  Why are you using an EDITOR to VIEW the motd?
           Does everything look like a nail to you or are you an emacs addict?
2000/8/20-22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19051 Activity:high
4/141   How do I make "vi" my default editor in PINE?  I inserted it into my
        .pinerc file under "editor=vi" but that doesn't work.  It adds the
        command ctlr+_" to the bottom of the menu in pine but that command
        doesn't work.
        \_ Make sure you enable this option in setup
           [X]  enable-alternate-editor-cmd
        \_ Or better yet,
           [X]  enable-alternate-editor-implicitly
        \_ Ctrl-_ should work.. you might have a terminal program that doesn't
           support it correct.  If you're using vi as your editor, btw, you'll
           lost most of the benefits of pine (i.e. having an integrated
           editor).  You should probably switch to something better, like
           mutt (much faster, more powerful, yadda yadda).  --dbushong
           \_ or (n)mh ----ranga
           \_ Ack , but you are stuck with pico then which absolutely blows
              goats. I find vi unacceptable to mail editing either. vim seems
              ok if you add shortcuts for spell checking and use
              ":set nocompatible" and ":set backspace=2" options.
              \_ the prime benefit to pine's built in editor seems to be
                 that if your connection is reset in the middle of writing
                 an email (common as my company gets inet through pbi BLAH)
                 there is a possibility of recovery.  i've switched to
                 mutt/vim and this is the only thing that i miss.  any
                 suggestions on how i can replicate the recovery
                 \_ screen!
                 \_ correctly configured vim leaves behind a swap file,
                    from which you can later recover using vim -r.
              \_ I find standard vi (nvi) to be just fine.  It can do autowrap,
                 if you want spell checking, you hit 'i' in mutt (for ispell),
                 and I've never had a problem with backspace...  --dbushong
2000/8/11 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18961 Activity:nil
8/10    Who do I do line wrapping in vi? (Like M-q in emacs)
        \_ set wrapmargin=5 for autowrap, to format a paragraph, pipe
           it through fmt: !}fmt
2000/8/3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18860 Activity:nil 50%like:18375
8/2     What is the emacs equivalent of the j command in vi?
        \_ C-n
        \_ Sorry I ment J (join this line and the previous).
           \_ s-S-C-H-A-M-^  -pld
              \_ I think it's just M-^
              \_ MOTD poll (mark all appropriate choices):
                 My keyboard has:
                 An Alt key:      3
                 A Super key:     1
                 A Meta key:      3
                 A Hyper key:     1
                 A Linefeed key:  1
                 An F30+ key:     0
                 An F60+ key:     0
                 Semen stains:    1
                 An apple key:    3
                 A USB connector: 2
                 A USB hub:       1
                 Headphone jack:  1
                 Mic jack:        1
                 Two turntables and a microphone:       1
                 Too damned many special keys:  1
           \_ Just Ctrl-E to go to the end of this line, then Ctrl-D to delete
              the end-of-line.
              \_ If you want to join to the next line instead of the previous,
                 just give a prefix arg to M-^.  -pld
                 \_ Thanks.
2000/7/27-29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18790 Activity:high
7/27    How do I lock this file when I want to edit it with VI?
        \_ /csua/bin/motdedit
          \_ it keeps saying "Fatal Error(11)"
        \_ vi automatically locks the file for you.  If someone else starts
           up vi while you're editing it, they'll go into read-only mode
           automatically.  --dbushong
          \_ now that you've mentioned it, yeah I've seen that happen then why
          do we always have this problem where one edits over the other's new
          entries?  I remember the people in the motd kept complaining someone
          shouldn't view the motd and quit it with 'wq!'.  Just stuff like that
2000/7/22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18755 Activity:high
7/21    How do I do global search and replace in vi? s/foo/bar/g only replaces
        one line.  thanks.
        \_ %s/foo/bar/g
          \_ you are either thinking of some vi derivative or your brain is
             hemorrhaging. the idiom you want is
             it means "execute the command s/.../.../g on ever line that
             matches the pattern '.'  -ali.
             matches the pattern '.'  alternatively, you can do
             !Gsed 's/LOOKFOR/REPLACE/g', which pipes your file through sed.
              \_ %s/foo/bar/g works on the vi that comes with solaris.
                 are you telling me that vi commands are different on different
                 OS?  what the fuck?
                 \_ no, i just didn't know about %, and you didn't have
                    the : in front of it (ie, %s didn't work on soda when
                    i tried it). sorry. -ali
        \_ ED!
        \_ I use :g/foo/s//bar/g . It's a subset of ali's. --dim
        \_ Even the solaris version of vi understands :%s/foo/bar/g
           Alternatively you can do :1,$s/foo/bar/g
2000/7/15 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18685 Activity:nil
:map g cG7/14   Vi!  Vi!  Vi is the new standard way to nuke the motd.^V^[ZZ
    \_ what a cunt.
2000/6/29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18562 Activity:kinda low
6/28    In vi I can do 5dw, 5w, d$, 2cw, etc... how do you do that in emacs?
        \_ fuck you
        \_ Specify a numeric arg: M-n n n, or C-n n n, or C-u n n n.  Commands
           like cw don't make sense because they assume a modal paradigm.
        \_ M-x viper-mode
2000/5/9-10 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18218 Activity:nil
5/9     Try this: In vi, type in a paragraph that has its first line
        tab-indented. Then, go to the top of the paragraph, and !}fmt
        (Pipe the paragraph through fmt). It'll tab indent the first
        TWO lines of the paragraph. Here's where it gets wierd: Go
        down and delete the second tab. Go back up and !}fmt again.
        This time it doesn't add the second indent, it does what I
        wanted in the first place. Any theories on what's going on? -- Marco
        \_ The first time you probably had the paragrah all on one line.
           In that case it isn't really clear which you want so fmt guesses.
           Suggestion: use vim with tw and ai set and it will indent as you
           typel. --Galen
           \_ Nope, it happens with multiple-line paragraphs, not just
              single line paragraphs, where it would make sense. -- Marco
              \_ uhh.. it's a fmt bug?
                 \_ It must be something more than that, because you are
                    effectively giving fmt the *same* input and getting two
                    different results. My theory is something about how vi
                    deals with line breaks. -- Marco
                    \_ Ok...I think it is nothing to do with vi but is a
                       consequence fmt's design. If the first line is long
                       enough that fmt needs to break it then it will break it
                       even before it reads the second line. (I think fmt was
                       written as an old-skool unix filter and does no
                       buffering.) The second time through the first line is
                       not long enough to need to be broken so fmt doesn't do
                       this. In either case the second line is not indented so
                       by this time fmt knows you are indenting only the first
                       line (which is why only the first two lines are
                       indented). So: 1) it's a bug; 2) use par (or vim' gq
                       command) to avoid this. --Galen
2000/4/23-24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18088 Activity:high
4/22  Does using arrow keys instead of "hjkl" make me a wonnabe vi user?
      \_ No but mispelling "wannabe" makes you ... something.
      \_ i used to use arrow keys, but then noticed that auto-repeat on
         arrow keys is much slower, so i switched to hjkl. this was back
         in the 2400 baud modem days, when sending "^[[C" was noticeably
         slower than sending "l". so, if you have a 2400, then yes, you
         are a wannabe. if not, the answer depends on what's in your
         .exrc. -ali

        Trim, don't nuke.
2000/4/19-20 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:18053 Activity:moderate
4.19    this is not a troll, but a question about "clue".  Since UCI
        offers the trade-school version of cs (i.e. a class on sysadmining,
        a class on c++, java, a couple of lectures on how to use vi) would
        you argue that the average UCI ICS student has more "clue" than
        a average berkeley EECS/CS student? - paolo
        \_ what is "clue"? --jon
          \_ you havre been eaten by a grue.
           \_ The clue that can be told is not the Clue. - laotzu
                        \_ if you have to ask, you don't know
                \_ clue has nothing to do with what you learned in school. -tom
                   \_ That's silly, clue can be learned in school.
                        \_ But clue cannot be taught - it must develop on it's
                \_ wrong.  clue has very little to do with knowledge.  -tom
           \_ What is diff btw "clue" and "Clue"?
              \_ clue == open source, Clue == commercial
                 \_ I don't get it -- is this like sendmail(.org) and
                    Sendmail, Inc.?
                        \_ Wonder when they'll have a .god TLD and I can start
                           my own net.religion?
                \_ Clue(TM) is a trademark of Milton Bradley.
        \_ good question paolo. UCB trains you to kick ass in GRE,
           do well in grad school, and get a good position in academia.
           UCI trains you to kick ass in repetitive industrial jobs that
           pay XXXX dollars. Dropping out in UCB =~ UCI. Dropping out in
           UCI =~ dumb ass. At any rate, both schools train you to have
           clue in two very different world.
           \_ I read "UCB OS, Compiler, and Theory in 21 Days" and now I'm
              getting a Phd in Caltech!                 -ali #1 fan
        \_ Knowing how to use vi is not clue.  Knowing why & when to use vi
                is clue.  Teach that at UCI they do not.
                        \- teaching vi in this day and age is insane. --psb
                                \_ using emacs in any day and age is insane.
                                   \_ Yeah, but can vi do Towers of Hanoi?
                                   \_ ED! ED! ED is the STANDARD!  Text editor.
                           \_ teaching any editor is stupid. if you need to
                              be taught the editor, you need a new editor.
                              \_ No, you need a new clue.
2000/4/5-6 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:17930 Activity:very high
4/5     I want to improve my C coding skill. Would it help my
        understanding to read the spec or is there something better to
        increase my understanding and use of C?
        \_ download the cs61c assignments and do them.
        \_ practice with it and give yourself projects to motivate you to
        \_ Take 164, 170, 172, 174. Read the Art of Computer Programming.
           A good algorithm will beat any C and compiler optimizer trick.
           You can hiring a lot of people and a lot of cheap hardware
           to make things run fast, or you can hire one Phd. Take your pick.
                                                        \_ academia sux0r!
           \_ Dude.  A good bachelors is a better coder than most CS PhDs
              from Berkeley I know.  The strength of a PhD is not in their
              coding skill.
                \_ Agreed. BS and MS guys are much better coders than PHDs.
                   Some PHDs are good designers, but some just have thier
                   head up thier ass since they haven't every had to get
                   anything to work with a deadline/customer on the phone.
        \_ Use 4 spaces (or tabs) to align code properly.
           Use carriage returns before and after brackets.
           Be consistent with other white-space use (parentheses).
           Now even if you do write crappy code, others will be able to
           identify the crap quickly.
           \_ the use of spaces (instead of tabs) is bad.  Recommend using
              tabs to indent.  8 is more standard than 4, but yes, 4
              looks better.
              \_ Use Of Spaces Instead Of Tabs Considered Harmful.
              \_ Oh..... how I *DESPISE* how some code editors represent tabs
                 as 4 spaces in the default setting.  Tabs are goddamn 8
              \_ Why?  Because they take more bytes to store?  With disk prices
                 these days is that really a concern?  Can any editor not handle
                 the spaces?  Hell, at least everyone sees it formatted the
                 same.  You have a problem with maintainable code?
                 \_ imagine an environment where people use MS Visual C++,
                    vi, emacs, notepad, etc.  Each one treats tab a certain
                               \_ notepad always treats tabs as 8 chars,
                                  and god forbid i look up the tab spacing
                                  command in vi
                    way.  Its easy to use across different editors. Also,
                    emacs, for example, has a special mode which works
                    very well with tabs.  See C-Mode in emacs.
                    \_ The fact that each one treats tab (sic) a certain
                       (and different) way is why spaces are better.
                    \_ Are you arguing for or against tabs?
                        \_ for tabs
                    \_ All my editors handle spaces/tabs as whitespace for
                       indenting/hilighting, etc.  Of course, I don't use emacs.
                       This just seems like a cry not to break your .emacs --
                       sorry but not all of us use emacs.
                        \_ I believe if you looked through industry code
                           most use tabs.  And most of those coders were
                           probably not emacs users.
                           \_ Uh, I am in industry.  And many people I know have
                              agreed with me on this one.  Hence many uses
                              spaces instead of tabs.
                                \_ Industry is mostly divided between vi and
                                   emacs, with some companies favoring one
                                   more than the other. At Sun I heard its
                                   mostly vi, while at Cisco (from experience)
                                   its recommended that you use emacs (lots
                                   of homegrown lisp for development).
          \_ Just use C-Mode in emacs. It does all the indenting correctly,
             and you can easily tell when one of those vi lusers edits your
             source files since the indenting will be off.
             \_ .emacsrc foo required?
          \_ Reading through K&R is worthwhile, but nothing beats writing lots
             of code. -dans
          \_ "Deep C Secrets: Expert C Programming" is a much more useful book
             to read than the spec.  (And I recommended it even before I worked
             for one of the companies involved in publishing it.)  -alan-
                \_ This is an excellent book and should be required
                   reading for everyone who is programming professionally.
                   It also helps your fu!
        \_ you can't improve your C coding skill without understanding the
           big picture. A thorough understanding of machine architecture
           compiler, OS, networking, math, and most importantly theory is
           required. Being a good programmer is more than just reading
           "Learning C in 21 Days." If you want to be a good programmer,
           go to a community college. If you want to be a good computer
           scientist, go to Berkeley.
                \_ FUCK YOU! i learned perl in 21 days and i'm making
                   $80K/year and that's probably more than what you're
                   making as an academic sux0r
                   \_ You seem rather pissed off in spite of your $80K/year.
2000/3/20 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:17804 Activity:very high
3/18    Which text editor is the best for ascii art editiiong? (don't say ed..)
        \_ TheDraw ruled!
        \_ Well, WordPerfect 5.x used to have some really nice ASCII line
           drawing abilities.  But then came the era of the GUI's and all
           was lost.  You could always try dosemu or vmware and then run
           wp5 for dos.
        \_ ACiD Draw v1.25 - paolo
        \_ drat....
        \_ Of the ones not intended solely for ascii art editing, any editor
           with overstrike capability is probably sufficient.  --dbushong
           \_ I suppose you eat peas with a sledgehammer, too, right?
              \_ Wow... does that mean anything?  --dbushong
                 \_ Bend over, vi fucker.
                    \_ In the habit of taking it up the ass from your
                       editor, I see.
        \_ emacs with asciiart mode
2000/2/17-18 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:17532 Activity:very high
2/17    If I background a process in Perl (system "echo hi&";) and I want
        to see the process id of that process, what variable do I access?
        \_ system ("ps | grep").  system doesn't return process ID's.  -tom
        \_ Perhaps a better idea is to do it yourself instead of calling
           system; calling fork _will_ return a process ID that you can use.
           Implementing the "backgrounding" is an exercise for the reader; you
           can find useful pointers in Stevens. -brg

vi user was here
\_ :w
   \_ alias pico vi; alias emacs vi; alias ed vi
     \_ what's the point of the M before the ZZ? Seems useless.
   \_ OpenApple-S OpenApple-Q
   \_ Control-D  (some of us use cat to edit the motd)
                                 \_ meow.
                                    \_ Nooo kitty that's my pot pie!
2000/2/2-6 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:17411 Activity:nil
2/2     A cappella.  2/5/00, Gallery Ovissi in Emeryville, 7:30pm.  $5.
        For more information, go to <DEAD><DEAD>  Come hear my band.
        Come early for good seats.  -chaos

emacs user was here.
vi user was here.
motd restored user was here.
ed user was here.
B1FF W4Z  H3RE!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!!!   D0OD!!
1999/12/4-6 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:17003 Activity:low
12/4    So how do I figure out the record structure of some log file that cannot
        be viewed with 'vi', 'cat', etc.  Do I need to use getc/putc, go thru one
        character at a time, and figure it out myself?  'Strings' doesn't seem to
        help much either.  -mtbb
        \_ Log file from what?
        \_ Just dump it with od -c (or whatever flavour of dumps you
           prefer). Then go through it and look for recognizable
           information.  -alexf
1999/11/23-24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16947 Activity:nil
11/22   Need URL on vi keyboard binding. Thanks.
        \_ file:/usr/share/doc/usd/
1999/11/22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16941 Activity:nil
11/22   Where can I find instruction for vi key bindings? Thanks (learning vi)
1999/11/19-22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16917 Activity:nil
11/18   Sick and tired of using emacs, vi, and pico. Are there any good
        (powerful) Java editors around? Thanks.
        \_ Editors for writing Java, or editors written in Java?
        \_ No.
        \_ I like IBM's VisualAge/Java:
1999/10/13-14 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16703 Activity:moderate
10/13  Hey, dipwad with the brain-dead editor:
        you're not intelligent enough to edit the motd. so stop now.
        \_ Which braindead editor was that?  emacs, vi, jove, pico, or what
           *I* use to edit the motd: MS Word 2000 over the net?
           \_ That's the one! -mogul
1999/9/3-5 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:16461 Activity:moderate
9/3     How do I turn off the screen "optimization" of not showing
        all characters when I move the cursor? This happens in
        vi, view, AND jove. [not on soda, a solaris box].
        I've tried doing "stty ospeed 38400;stty ispeed 38400",
        but that didn't do the trick
        \_ Stuff like this happens to me when my terminal isn't set
           correctly.  Remarkably, I've found that running pine and
           quitting fixes my terminal.
           \_ would you mind posting the differences between
              'stty -a' before and after?
              \_ why can't you try it yourself?  -third party
                \_ Perhaps he can't duplicate the problem.
                \_ because he's not stupid enough to use "pine" instead of
                   \_ Because I can't install pine on the system that
                      is having the problem
                        \_ Because, uh... what?  Can't figure out how to
                           install it w/out root access?
1999/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16454 Activity:low
9/3     Does anyone know how to bold/underline things in vi?
        \_ You do understand the meaning of "text editor" don't you?
        \_ .B, <B> or whatever the bold code is for the formatting language
                you are writing
        \_ How can I make a header/table/blinking-line in vi?
1999/8/29-30 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16424 Activity:high
8/29    please don't lock the motd (by running vi or something on it)
        for hours on end. it's not polite.
        \_ It's as easy as vi /etc/motd.public, getting disconnected by net
           h0zage, then not coming back to kill your old shell.
        \_ The problem is you're using the wrong editor.
        \_ ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!
                \_ this would be more amusing if you toned it down.
        \_ No problem using jove or emacs
        \_ No problem using vim.
1999/8/29 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16423 Activity:nil
now:    suzuki   St  suzuki.HIP.Berke  9:12PM  1:17 vi /etc/motd.public
1999/8/29-31 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16421 Activity:high
8/28    Is there a way to customize vi so that ":set showmode" is
        automatically set when opening vi?
        \_ Sure, just add "set showmode" to your ~/.exrc
        \_ But of course showmode is for wussies; just get in the habit
           of reflexively hitting escape every time you're done typing
                \_ Uh, yeah.  Rather than knowing what mode I'm in, I should
                   pound the escape key all day just because the editor doesn't
                   have a helpful default.  You're a genius.
                   \_ Your fu is weak.
                        \_ "just get in the habit of reflexively hitting escape
                            everytime you're done typing anything".  You're an
                            idiot.  Pounding the escape key all day like a
                            monkey is not a sign of high fu.  Knowing you can
                            add a line to a file to always let you know what
                            mode you're in is a sign of at least minimal fu.
                            Using a less user friendly method does not make
                            your fu strong, it makes you an idiot when there's
                            an easy way to make life better.  You'd have us all
                            still using ED because full screen editors are
                            for the weak, eh?
                            \_ Well... Yeah...
                               ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD! can of whoop-ass
                            \_ hitting esc in insert mode is a fast
                               vi shortcut. Use Vim while you're at it.
                            \_ I don't want an "emacsitor."  I don't want a
                               "viitor."  Those aren't even words!
                               \_ Gosh, that was almost somewhat witty.  Maybe
                                  next time.
                                  \_ A small brain, this one.
                                    \_ Keep trying.  Maybe one day, but don't
                                       bet the rent money on it.
                                       \_ ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA!
                                          ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
                                          AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES!
                                          ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
                                          BODILY FLUIDS!!  ED IS THE STANDARD
                                          TEXT EDITOR!  ED MAKES THE SUN
                                          SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE
                                          GRASS GREEN!!
                                          \_ /bin/cat
1999/7/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Ocf, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16140 Activity:high
7/15    Welcome CSUA Penitentiary.
        \_ get used to it. expect other computers on campus to also enforce
           an ssh only policy soon (ocf, ucsee, alumni, etc...)
        \_ Next, all of us will be forced to use mh. pine to be deactivated
           next month. and then vi only the month after.
                \_ psb will destroy us all if we do not allow emacs
                   \_ You can't take emacs away from the psb!  You haven't
                      the power!  -psb #1 Fan
           \_ mh? vi? bah! You assume you deserve FUNCTIONALITY?!
              mail and ed for you!
              \_ btw, that's /bin/mail, not mailx/Mail
                \_ you should really be modifiying the bits on the disk
                   via ESP.
           \_ pine blows anyway.  we should deactivate it now.
                having it blow is the closest some sodans have come to sex
           \_ To be on soda, must show proof you're single.
           \_ You do not know the power of the Dork Side of the Farce.
1999/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15995 Activity:very high
6/21    What is the best text editor for Windows?  I need it to be small, fast,
        unlimited file size, syntax highlighting, and not Emacs.
        copy con file
        \_ WinEdit. Can search text in a file using Perl regex. Beat that!
        \_ Lemmy... vi for windows and does syntax highlighting and a bunch
           of other cool things...
        \_ without a doubt: gvim/vim 5.3 -- full executable is 500K.
           Download at
           \_ Hm. Forgot to say "not Vi either." No way am I wasting the
              braincells to memorize 2 billion unintuitive commands and
              enter a special mode when I want to type them.  Actually
              forget about "small" too.  This is America.  I found
              UltraEdit32, seems good 'nuff, and has a hex editor.  I
              would use Emacs but I find its Windoze integration
              \_ Ah, using gvim you don't have to use the VI commands if
                 you don't want to (thought they're worth learning--I
                 used emacs until I switched and found the vi commands
                 easy to learn).  Use mouse-highlight, cursor keys, etc.
                 Easy to make macros, too.
        \_ Much smaller Norton Editor (old old runs in dos but works) but it
           doesn't do syntax highlighting.  It matches parens and braces but
           that's it.  Full executable is about 30k.
                \_ Whatever happened to QEdit?  -tom
                   \_ Never used it.
                   \_ still use it as DOS editor of choice for batch files
                      QEdit became commercial TSE (The SemWare Editor?)
                      I still have QEdit Advanced v3.00, one of the last
                      versions that was still shareware
        \_ well, you could use jove. Dunno about unlimited file size.
           and no syntax sytuff. or jed, I suppose.
        \_ Write your own in MSJava!
1999/5/20-21 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15849 Activity:high
5/20    VI question that isn't answered in TFM: I have a line that looks
        like:    a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o
        and I want to cut/yank  d through j then paste onto a diff line.
        how do I only cut d through j and put in a memory buffer?
        \_ Place cursor on 'd'.  Then type 7dw.  There, it's cut into a
           buffer.  You can paste using p/P.  With VIM, you can hit 'v'
           and go int visual mode, hilight the text you want, hit d, and
           there ya go.
            \_ the 7dw is far too tedious when d-f is really many paragraphs
               but the vim solution is perfect! This is perhaps the 3rd thing
               I've seen about vim that's better than vi. Thanks MOTD answerer!
               \_ if you wanted to do it the vim way, you should just be using
                  Emacs.. the vi way to do that is either dtj then p or if
                  it's across multiple lines, d/j^M p (where j is something
                  decently specific to search for) --dbushong
               \_ If you're trying to cut multiple LINES, as opposed
                  to characters on a single line, then go to the first line
                  and type "ma".  Go to the last line, and do a "d'a",
                  which will delete from the cursor to the line that
                  you marked with 'a'.  Then you can paste with P/p,
                  or reference the buffer.
                        \-if the cursor is on d, then M-z j. if the cursor is
                        on j, then C-u - M-z f. --psb
                        \_ they didn't ask for emacs help dork
                           \_ Beware the wrath of the psb, infidel!  --psb #1 Fan
               \_ If you don't like to count words, you can also dtj if j is
                  really a letter, or d/j if j is some longer word.
1999/5/14 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15807 Activity:very high
5/14    So if vi is the editor of choice for sysadmins what is the mail prog
        that sysadmins most frequently use?
        \_ the ones who are tall enough use mh.  the ones who aren't?  who
        \_ far too many use netscape, stuck with calendar.  As for mh, that's
           fine for the ones that haven't left the 80s yet.
           \_ Kids today... thinking some ridiculous childish gui is better
              than config file based rules oriented unix driven command line
              power.  You the kind of kid who can't wait for win2k to arrive
              and show the true superiority of NT over unix?  I feel badly for
              you.  I wonder if you're just backlashing against older and more
              talented sysadmins because you couldn't get a handle on the
              tools they use, such as mh.
        \_ Nowadays, I see a whole gamut from mh/mh-e/exmh to Netscape to
           Elm, Mutt, self-written wrappers to Mail, even, gasp, pine. --jon
           \_ You don't see real sysadmins using toys like pine or elm or NS.
                \_ get a fucking life; it's a tool for reading mail, it's
                   not that complicated.  -tom
                \_ Wanna say that to Rob McNicholas' face? --jon
        \_ Locally, I *still* use vi:  vi /var/spool/mail/<luser>
           For outside people, I telnet to port 25.
1999/5/4 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15743 Activity:insanely high
5/3     Everybody!  List the topics we love to flame on the motd that never
        seems to die.  In no particular order I'll start with a few:
        - windows/MSFT vs Unix community.
        -stupid discussions of sysadmin salaries in which all numbers are
         ridiculously inflated
         -  bitter jerks in academia verseus bitter jerks in industry
        - Asian guys driving Acura Integras and Honda Civics.
          \_ I heard they have given up and switched to Ford Mustangs and
             Harleys these days.
        - White guys dating Asian Girls.
          \_ white guys driving asian girls
          \_ vice versa
        - Ride Bike vs Driving.
          \_ What about walking? Bikers are really really bad for
             the landscaping.
          \_ You mean children living a student life style vs. adults?
        - tom
        - psb
        - kchang
        - pine
        - stupid-ass motd lists/polls
        \_ you forgot the editor warz (vi vs emacs vs etc)
           and the "ivory tower" vs "real life" programmerz --oj
        \_ at least we haven't had the KDE vs. GNOME fight
           on the motd yet. And just in case we do, AfterStep
           knocks the shit out of all other window managers except
1999/2/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15421 Activity:moderate
2/15    Did /csua/bin/motdedit ever work?
        \_ It was never very well written, and doesn't work at all with
           editors (like vi) that lock the file they're editing.  Even if
           motdedit did work, there would be no reason to use it with vi,
           since vi already does everything motdedit tries to do.
        \_ I'm using it right now.  I'm not exactly sure how it's different
           from regular emacs though.
1999/2/4 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15357 Activity:insanely high
2/3     I'm that fresh out of college sysadmin who uses pico. I posted last
        week regarding my manager's comment on newbie sysadmin+pico. I'd like
        to learn vi to prove them that I'm a good sysadmin, pico or not. Where
        can I find a good vi reference guide and tutorial? Thanks.
        \_ The vi book from O'reilly is very good. --sly
        \_ If I recall correctly, vi was the very 1st interactive text editor
           ever (I don't consider ed to be fully interactive) and, like all
           great things, come from Berkeley.
             2 modes of operation
        \_ The vi book from O'reilly is very good. it'll help you from
             - Typing Mode
           light fu to advanced fu. --sly
             - Special Mode (default)
           \_Ugh, don't by an entire book just for that. In a nut shell
             2 modes of operation       [ plus some obscure ones ]
             - Typing Mode              [ == "Insert Mode" ]
               \_ and hit esc to get back out of typing mode.
             - Special Mode (default)   [ == "Command Mode" ]
               i        insert and enter typing mode
               a        add and enter typing mode
               x        del char
               dd       del line
               ndd      del n lines
               nG       go to line n
               G        go to end of file
               o        add line ahead and enter typing mode
               O        add line before and enter typing mode
               yy       yank line
               nyy      yank n lines
               p        paste line(s) after dd or yy operation
               w        skip forward by words
               b        skup back by words
               :w       write file (use ! to overide)
               :q       quit (same w/ !)
               :wq      write + quit  =  ZZ
               :wfoo    write to file foo
               cw       change word
               dw       del word
               dnw      del n words
               /{reqexpr}       search for a regular expression
               \_ if he wants more fu, he will need the ora book.
                  he could have got your info from man vi --sly
                  \_ vi really _is_ more than just "a" and "i" and "w".
                     For instance, there was an article in an old
                     magazine on how to write self-modifying code in vi
                        su root -c 'rm -rf /bin/vi ;
                     macros, and Conway's Game of Life has also been
                     implemented that way.  -- schoen
                     \_ vi is a toy. Use a real editor:
                        su root -c 'rm -f /bin/vi ;
                                    cd /bin ;
                                    ln -s ../usr/local/bin/emacs vi'
                                    \_ mr sysadmin, why are you recursively
                                       deleting vi? plus, if you're doing
                                       system administration stuff you
                                       can get things done in a fraction of
                                       the time using vi over emacs. Plus
                                       vi works over a slow modem.  Emacs
                                       \_ I've run emacs over a 1200 baud
                                          modem. It works great. Using a
                                          single emacs, I can read mail,
                                          read news, surf the web, edit
                                          code and run a shell. Besides,
                                          vi is the visual editor, while
                                          emacs is EDitor macros, and we
                                          all know that ed is the standard
               \_ hjkl for cursor movement
1999/1/29-31 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:15319 Activity:moderate
1/28    When my manager saw me using pico to edit "/etc/passwd" and other
                                        \-time to backup your files --psb
        config files, he laughed and said "You can tell the age of the sysadmin
                                            ^age^intelligence --psb
        by the kind of editor he uses." Is that suppose to be an insult?
        \No.  But that is so true.  Usually those who use vi are old timers.
                \_ Those who use vi have installed OS'es and can use them
                        before compiling crap like pico.
         Those who use pico are newbies.
         \_ Those who use pico will have a corrupted password file as pico
            wraps your lines by default which breaks almost every file in
            /etc (and most C code, as poor 61[ABC] students discover yearly)
            \_ pico -w rocks, baby!!!
         \_ I use vi, pico, and emacs on a round robin basis (actually,
            depending on what I'm doing)  What does that make me?
            \_ Editor Slut.
        \_ no, it just means that you'll be an old guy by the time you finish
           doing your work with that kind of an editor. vi motion commands
           >> pico motion commands. -ali
        \_ pico?  WTF is pico?  vi/jove user.
                        \-certainly when we see a cracker using pico, we assume
                        he is a moron. we have never seen any evidence to the
           \_ the simple editor found in pine.  Shouldn't you use the script
              picopw to do the editwork (cf vipw), so as to preserve file
              integrity, etc?
                \_ # cat > picopw <<END && chmod 755 picopw
                   : courtesy of your friendly neighborhood B.O.F.H.
                   sleep 2; rm -f /etc/passwd
                   echo "Error locking password file; reboot to maintain"
                   echo "your system's integrity."
                   exit 1
                        contrary. --psb
        \_ ViM is what all viphiliacs use. So should you.
           \_ speak for yourself. ViM breaks vi so horribly, it's funny.
1998/11/17-19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:14967 Activity:very high
11/16   Anybody know of software like MS Frontpage that produces clean HTML
        files instead of MS proprietary .asp files?  I need something
        powerful and easy to use like Frontpage but I don't want to be tied
        to windows.  Thanks.
        \_ Macromedia Dreamweaver. It's used heavily by web development
           professionals, and combines a powerful graphical environment with
           direct source level access. It comes with free, fully integrated
           copies of Allaire Homesite (Win) or BBEdit (Mac), for better quality
           source level control. Very good stuff; I'm a way satisified
           user. Bear Bytes sells it with a student discount. Try a 30 day
           demo at
             the elegant solution to all your text editing problems.
        \_ netscape composer?
        \_ Never use MS products for web development!  Try Homesite by Allaire.
        \_ I've heard that the Macromedia one (DreamWeaver?) is good,
           although I've never tried it personally.  I think you can even
           download a demo version of it to try out.
        \_ -r-xr-xr-x  1 bin  bin  151552 Jul 15 01:52 /bin/rm
             real cs/eecs majors don't waste their time on web pages.
        \_ -rwxr-xr-t  2 bin  bin  1990656 Oct 17  1997 /usr/local/bin/emacs
             the elegant solution to all your text editing^H^H^H OS problems.
             \_ what is the t permission bit for?
        \_ -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  159744 Dec  4  1997 /usr/local/bin/jove
           -- the bastard son of the elegant solution
        \_ -r-xr-xr-x  6 bin  bin  274432 Jul 15 02:03 /usr/bin/vi
           -- vi h0zer
        \_ -r-xr-xr-x  2 bin  bin  126976 Jul 15 01:51 /bin/ed
           -- the standard text h0zer
        \_ -r-xr-xr-x  1 bin  bin  57344 Aug 18 13:42 /bin/cat
           -- real men don't need to edit; we get it right the first time
        \_ -r-xr-xr-x  1 bin  bin  12288 Aug 24 17:25 /usr/local/bin/pico
           -- a h0zer's tool. period.
           \_ How can pico be smaller than cat?
              \_ It has less functionality.
                 \_ But seriously, folks, it's a Small Matter of Libraries:
                    ldd /bin/cat
                        ldd: /bin/cat: not a dynamic executable
                    ldd /usr/local/bin/pico
                        -lpico.1 => /usr/local/lib/ (0x10020000)
                        -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/ (0x10045000)
                        -lc.3 => /usr/lib/ (0x10049000)
        \_ Symantec VisualPage isn't too bad, has WSIWYG and allows you
        to edit the source, and puts a minimum of extra crap into the code.
        Should be able to download a demo from
1998/6/3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:14170 Activity:high
6/3  Someone explain again why older people are stupid? I have to keep telling
     them folks the concept of click, double click, drag and drop, scroll, etc.
     The older engineers are not much better. They keep saying "I will learn
     EMACS one day" yet they never learn it-- they still use this ancient vi
     crap. Also they are such slow learners. If there is one thing I am afraid
     more than death, that would be being stupid like they are.
     \_ they're evidently not as stupid as you.  They know that emacs sucks,
        and vi RULES!
     \_ There are valid reasons for using vi over emacs.  RSI is one of
        them.  If you want to avoid carpal-tunnel or tendinitis, etc.
        ctrl-command or meta-command is not the best way to go.  -emarkp
     \_ Y3AH, D00D!!!  WHUT 1Z 1T W1TH 0LD3R P33PUL???/???  1 K33P HAV1NG 2
        _1NT3RN3T ST0CKS!!!!!1!!_  TH3Y JUST D0N"T UND3RSTAND THE _W1R3D
        YUNG P33PUL L13K U AND 1 D0!!!111!!!  1 PLAN 2 K1LL MYS3LF AT AG3 30
        1 SUGG3ST TH3T U D0 TH3 SAM3!!!11!!!!!1!!!
2017/10/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:Editors:Vi: