Academia GradSchool MBA - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Academia:GradSchool:MBA:
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2011/12/20-2012/2/6 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:54267 Activity:nil
12/20   Question to people in industry: I'm a transfer student, which
        means I can take an extra semester to graduate. I will have met
        all the requirements to graduate in May, but already have an
        internship lined up for the summer and was planning to use the
        semester afterward to take some courses I haven't had a chance
        to yet (graphics, distributed systems (if they add the course),
        grad-level networks or security). I'm not sure if it would be
        worth the time/money to stay another semester, though, and am
        wondering if I should just apply for full-time jobs now and not
        worry about doing another internship/semester. Thoughts?
        \_ It won't affect your job prospects.  If you'd enjoy another semester
           in school, take another semester; if not, don't.
        \_ You will make more money over the course of your career
           by going to work now, if that is the question. Is there
           any chance that later on you will get a MS or MBA?
           \_ The question is whether it's worth going to work 6 months
              later in order to take a few classes which interest me,
              but may not be relevant in the long run. I would like to get a
              MS at some point. What difference does that make here?
              \_ It is certainly not "worth it" if you just want to maximize
                 lifetime income. Taking a few more classes won't make you
                 any money, but working another six months certainly will.
                 If you are trying to decide life satisfaction vs the money,
                 it really depends on how much you enjoy school. I have
                 enjoyed working more than being a full time student. YMMV.
                 If you plan to get an MS, you will probably be more attractive
                 to graduate programs with the extra coursework and might
                 even be able to get more out of the MS, so that should be
                 a consideration.
        \_ you'll always find ways to make more money in your lifetime
           but there will not be many opportunities to take classes
           from a really great university. Chances are, when you start
           working, you will be too busy to want to take any new class.
           \_ Agreed.  I graduated two decades ago with honor (which already
              meant a broader list of courses) without taking 184 (Graphics),
              188 (AI), or 268 (Networking).  Now I wish I took those courses.
              --- !OP
              \_ Why do you wish you took them?
                 \_ Because now I feel that there are holes in my CS education.
                    When people talk about these areas, I feel bad that I don't
                    know anything even though I graduated from a prestigious
                    university.  AI may be obscure all right, but graphics and
                    networking are common.
                    \_ Just read books and stuff. Sheesh.
                       \- your brain size has been classified as: small
2010/7/21-8/9 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Computer/SW/OS] UID:53891 Activity:nil
7/21    "How to Upgrade an Old Phone into a Porsche" (
        "Ortiz spends five to six hours each day searching Craigslist for the
        right kind of swaps. Over the last two years and 14 trades ......"
        If he just got a job and work five to six hours each day for two
        years, he would probably have earned more than enough money to buy the
        10-yr-old Porsche anyway.  ( says it's worth ~$9-12k
        depending on options and conditions.)
        "Harvard Business School, watch out for this guy."
        Indeed.  Watch our for this guy and don't admit him, since he thought
        he made some quick bucks while he actually worked below minimum wage.
        \_ people like that should be drafted and sent to afghanistan
           \_ That's how we got Milo Minderbinder.
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2010/4/21-5/10 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:53795 Activity:nil
4/21    The previous Executive Assistant in my small start-up company had an
        MBA.  The current one has a Master's in Mass Communication.  Is the
        job market really that grim such that these over-qualifying people had
        to work office jobs?
        \_ How old were they? Were these entry-level jobs?
           \_ They are about 25-30.  I don't think you need a Master's degree
              to book air tickets and hotel rooms for the CEO.
              \_ MBA and master's degree doesn't automatically make you
                 overqualified.  Plus, it may not have been a question of
                 "had to".  A lot of my b-school classmates went on to do
                 seemingly irrational things for whatever peculiar reasons
                 they had.  -John
              \_ True, but having access to the CEO can be good for your
                 career. A know a lot of people with MBAs who didn't get
                 great jobs for a few years out of school, especially
                 if they were inexperienced and the MBA wasn't from Harvard.
2008/10/22-27 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Computer/Rants] UID:51633 Activity:nil
10/22   Ballmer is a genius:
        \_ He's got a genius for being a douchebag.
2006/11/6-7 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:45180 Activity:moderate
11/5    Anyone here get an MS in CS? Did it help your career advancement
        or earnings? Do you wish you would've gotten a different MS
        degree instead? Was it worth the time and expense?
        \_ I was working on a MS in EECS when I went to a law school open
           house for the free pizza. Switching to ls has been the best
           decision I have ever made. My starting salary (w/o bonus) is
           1.5-2x what I could have made as an engineer w/ a MS. [ I know
           that you asked wrt another MS degree, but if you are considering
           grad school, I think you should keep an open mind re the subject ]
           \_ Well, assuming you could make $150K with the MS, are you
              saying you are *starting* at $200+K, because I find that hard
              to believe. If true, maybe we're all in the wrong field.
              Also, did you go to a top-ranked law school? What about the
              loss of earnings while going to law school? Most of the
              better ones are full-time, unlike, say, MS EECS.
              \_ $150K w/ a MS EECS? I think you are overestimating the
                 starting salary for a MS EECS. I'd say it was closer
                 to $100K (at least that is what we would offer to new
                 hires w/ a MS EECS).
                 Re loss of earnings: You can do part-time at many ls.
                 I worked part-time as an engineer and did school full
                 time to avoid loosing money. Its harder but at least
                 I'm graduating w/o any debt.
                 Re top rated law school: I went to a mediocre ls, but
                 I was near the top of my class and I went into patent
                 work (which pays more than say a DA or transactional
                 work b/c of the initial burden). The salary is even
                 higher if you were to go to a really good ls. The main
                 problem is that you have to deal w/ a lot of jackasses.
                 work). The salary is even higher if you were to go to
                 a really good ls. The main problem w/ the law is that
                 you have to deal w/ a lot of jackasses.
                     \- so how annoying are the legal people? ... like
                        annoying face to face or keep you up at night
                        grinding your teeth annoying? also do you think
                        this is just the personality of some of the people
                        in the field or a product of the nature of the
                        field ... e.g. rather than cooperating to find an
                        efficient solution, people pointlessly being
                        difficult, or shoudl i say dillatory, just to
                        be a pain in the ass and raise costs to the other
                        \_ Some are keep you up at night grinding your
                           teeth annoying, some are just annoying in
                           that the way they practice law is to be as
                           difficult as possible on every single thing.
                           I think that the profession attracts people
                           who are agressive and egotistical and rewards
                           that type of behavior in many cases.
                 \_ I didn't say *starting* salary for a MS EECS. If you
                    meant that, I apologize. I took "what you could make"
                    to mean "what you could make" and not "what you would
                    start out at with no experience".
                    \_ Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that you might be
                       able to make ~ $135-$150K w/ MS EECS + experience.
                       But that is about as high as I've seen people go
                       (principal engineer, sr. staff eng., &c.). In
                       comparison, $135-$150K is what one makes right out
                       of LS and it keeps going up after that. Even if
                       you decide to not work at a firm and go to work in
                       gc's office of a decent sized co. you will be making
                       approx. what a sr. staff makes but w/ 9-5 hrs.
                       \_ Don't IP lawyers make quite a bit more money than
                          your average corporate law drone?
                          \_ Corporate law drones may make less than
                             the number above, but if you already have
                             a BS EECS, why would you do anything but
                             IP (Patent) Law?
                             Not all IP Law pays as well as Patent.
                             Trademark, for instance, pays somewhat
                             less and there isn't as much job security.
                             Copyright is okay, but you pretty much
                             have to live in LA or NYC to get really
                             good work.
                          \_ The range I gave above, is for patent
                             work. Sorry for not making that clear.
                             You are right, not everything pays as
                             well as patent work. Copyright, Trademark
                             and IP licensing (all "IP"), pay a little
                             big less.
                             bit less.
                             Corporate can pay the same as patent, but
                             it really depends on how well you did in
                             school and whether corporate law is in
                             vouge when you graduate. There are lots of
                             of other practice areas that pay less than
                             being an engineer (Crim, Transactional,
                             Estate Planning, Family Law, Real Estate,
                             Civil Rights, &c.), but if you have a BS
                             in EECS, there isn't really a financial
                             reason to go into something other than
                             patent/copyright practice.
                             \_ Does a phd give you a bump in pay as a
                                patent lawyer straight out of school?
                                \_ Depends on the field. PhD in any
                                   pharma related subject (o-chem,
                                   immunology, &c) can give you a $10K
                                   or more edge. In EECS, materials,
                                   &c. I don't think so.
                       \_ $140K right out of law school? That seems high
                          compared to the salary calculators on the web,
                          unless you went to Harvard Law. What about law
                          school vs. MBA?
                          \_ I don't know what the salary calculator say
                             but this is the starting rate at most reasonable
                             sized firms in the Bay Area and NYC.
                          \_ Please see above. The number I gave was for
                             patent work. I'm guessing the salary calc.
                             are based more on general practice at mid-
                             to large sized firms, which doesn't really
                             pay as well.
        \_ I'm in business school but will probably make <= when I
           graduate. I was making $87k + ~$10k bonus/stock before I went back
           to school. But I'm getting my MBA b/c I don't want to be an
           engineer anymore. What's the ROI/payback of my MBA? I don't know,
           I could probably have transitioned into business at my old job,
           but getting the MBA is more general and involves more drinking.
2005/11/22-24 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:40698 Activity:moderate
11/22   Any CSUAers ever apply or go to business school? I'm thinking about
        applying, and just wanted to see how common/rare that was for CSUA
        \_ I know vallard did. -jrleek
        \_ Yeah, I did.  Going to NYU right now. Seems like more than a
           quarter of the people are engineers of some sorts. --vallard
        \_ randal's currently at Haas.
        \_ I'm cross-registering at Sloan and finding it to be
       a very worthwhile.  --darin
           very worthwhile.  --darin
        \_ hm, I'm considering applying in fall myself ... - rory
        \_ I'm applying to INSEAD for 2007--there are a lot of tech guys doing
           MBAs, who want to go beyond pure operations or development-type
           jobs.  -John
           \- oh i have some associate who teach there. i will have them
              crush you. why dont you go the the university of opus dei?
              \_ I, too, have some associates who teach there, and they
                 will crush your associates (strange hairy hiker geeks who
                 practice the janitorial arts do not count as associates,
                 by the way.)  -John
        \_ I heard the best combo of degrees is a BS in CS or EECS from
           Cal/Stanfraud/whatever plus an MBA from MIT.
2005/8/21-22 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:39204 Activity:high
8/20    Say I want to score well in GRE test (just general test) and have some
        time to study.  Should I consider enrolling in one of those Kaplan
        courses? (either classroom or web based)?
        \_ Get the Kaplan CD.
        \_ computer practice exam is good.
        \_ It depends how well you do on these tests already and what score
           you'll need for your target school.  If you want a top notch
           school with a 99th percentile rank, it is extremely unlikely you'll
           get that sort of score without the in person class and taking and
           retaking the zillions of tests on file in the Kaplan library.  If
           you just want to get into any random second tier school, buy the
           CD for some practice.  Third tier?  Spend the CD money on beer
           the night before the test.
           \_ I think the key thing the op is looking for is FULFILLMENT.
              I thought the exact same way you did. I graduated in the
              mid 90s and joined the dot-com crowd with my friends. I
              did ok, but I didn't feel fulfilled. It was fun writing
              code, designing apps, writing backends, and the pay and
              stock options were awsome but I really didn't feel like
              I made a difference in people's lives. I worked for 6 years
              in the industry, started as QA->code monkey->project lead
              and even did 6 months as a PM. I think it all depends on
              the attitude and what your goals and priorities in life are.
              Most of my friends just wanted to make big money and
              retire, and two did exactly that. Many are now 30s, have
              kids, have a house, and have a big ass mortgage to pay.
              There is one I know who is depressed because of his
              sense of feeling "stuck." There were obviously a few
              who went back to law school and one even did a joint
              law/MBA (he is a 3.98 Cal guy), and took up jobs
              that they thought more more suitable to their needs. When
              I talk to them, yes, they were glad to give up a few years
              of their lives to attain something they could never get
              anywhere else. What that 'something' is, depends on who
              you are and what makes you happy.
           \_ Bullshit.  I got only ok scores when I took a practice test,
              used the Kaplan CD to study for a couple months, then took the
              real thing and got excellent scores, and got into a 1st tier
              school.  The class may be useful if you have no self-discipline
              and can't motivate yourself to study every night on your own, but
              if that's the case grad school is a bad idea anyway.
              \_ Yes, my general advice is BS next to your personal anecdote.
                 Congratulations on getting into grad school despite using a
                 lesser study method.
           \_ [idiotic response self-censored by poster]
           \_ Depends on who you are I guess. I got a 99% with no study.
        \_ I taught Princeton Review(TPR), and I took the test on my own
           before that and scored excellently.  A couple comments: 1) Figure
           out where you're at, and where you want to be, then decide.
           2) TPR, and to a lesser extent, Kaplan, _will_ raise your score
           with the work put in correctly.  3) working from home will also
           raise your score.  4) The former is likely to be more effective,
           if your score needs a lot of raising _and_ you put in the full
           amount of time(and more) that the course guidelines suggest.
           5) Raising your score on these is all about prep work and practice,
           contrary to the definition of aptitude tests. oh, and 6) TPR is
           definitely better than Kaplan.  I started Kaplan training, too.
           There's an immense difference.  Also, within TPR, there's an
           immense difference among their teachers.  Talk to the TPR center
           and see if you can find their best(star) teacher to take the
           course from if you decide to do it.
           \_ I'd recommend Princeton Review any day over Kaplan.  I used
              to work for Kaplan, and they are an evil company.  All they
              care about is profit, and their products suffer because of
              \_ Does TPR have some sort of self-study equivalent to their
                 classroom courses (i.e. not just a study book?)  I'd like to
                 take the GMAT in a bit, but am unlikely to find a good
                 classroom review course where I'm at next year.  -John
                    they have online classes.  I can't vouch for them, though
                    I'd still personally go for them over Kaplan based on
                    my experience with Kaplan.   -sax
           \_ Are there any evaluation tests that can estimate how well
              one would do on GMAT?  I bought this GMAT book and tried
              2 sample tests.  Out of the 7 sections of the tests, I
              get like 1-2 wrongs on some sections, and 4-5 on others.
              Each section has around 21 questions.  The book's
              analysis rated me as good on some sections, and
              excellent on others, but that doesn't really mean
              anything to me.
2004/12/3-5 [Academia/StanfUrd, Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:35167 Activity:nil
12/3    How "good" is an MBA from Sloan (MIT)? Is it comparable with
        an MBA from, say, Stanford, Wharton, or Harvard?
        \_ Very well respected, yes.
2004/8/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Jobs] UID:32969 Activity:insanely high
8/17    So apropos of the discussion below, do people here think it is
        dishonest to leave a degree *off* of a resume, i.e. a phd?
        \_ Dishonest? Yes.  Does it matter as long as you don't later come
           back and ask for better money/title/position/work/etc based on
           it? No.  I've dropped all the one-off contract jobs from my
           resume.  Am I dishonest?  For the next rewrite I'm going to
           drop anything more than 10 years old.  Is that dishonest?  I
           don't remember the titles I had at 2 places so I made one up
           that fit what I did.  Dishonest?  It's just a resume.  If you
           can't do the job, they'll fire you later.  If you can, then so
           what?  The only place I'd give a full and complete disclosure
           is for a security government or financial job where they'll do
           a very deep background check and find out everything anyway.  As
           some random staff techie at a non-security job?  Fuck it.  Do
           whatever you can to improve your chances without adding things
           that aren't true.
        \_ The day corporations do full disclosure of all their warts
           in their offer letter, you might have a case.
        \_ No.
        \_ Yes, because I will not be happy if I find out the person is
           a liar. Lying to your new boss before you even meet him/her is
           lame. Find a job that fits you and don't waste my time.
           \_ How is replacing phd with MS + 3 years research experience
              a lie? Obviously if someone asks what education I have,
              I'll say, I'm just talking about what goes on the resume.
              Is it dishonest to leave information about one's military
              career off of a resume for a programming job?  where do
              you draw the line?
                \_ Why would you even want to leave out a PhD?
                   \_ Ph.D.'s cost more, and the company might have a bunch
                      of non-productive degree holders who might bias the hirer
                        \_ Why don't you just say you won't demand higher
                           pay? It's not a good idea to start off lying
                           to a potential future employer. Even if it is
                           a lie by omission.
                           \_ My buddy who has a U. of Chicago law degree
                              omitted this on his Best Buy application.  He's
                              been working there for almost three years (not
                              as a corporate guy, but the lowly guys who
                              help customers with advice). -!op
                              \_ 1. He's clearly an idiot. 2. He's not
                                 seriously cultivating a career at Best
                                 Buy, is he? If not, then it does not
                                 \_ In case you didn't get it, this is one
                                    example where it makes sense not to list
                                    a degree -- when it has no relevance to
                                    the position you are applying for
                                    (assuming the lack of any instruction
                                    to list all educational history).
                                    \_ In case *you* didn't get it, Best
                                       Buy is not exactly pertinent to his
                                       career, so what does it matter if
                                       he pisses his boss off or gets
                                       fired? It's not that it makes sense
                                       to omit it. It's that it won't
                                       matter either way.
                                       \_ Maybe it is his career.  Maybe he
                                          enjoys what he does and intendeds
                                          to continue.
              \_ Listing "+ 3 years research" is questionable if it's what's
                 led to your Ph.D.
           \_ A lot of people would argue that it is not even a lie of
              omission, unless HR specifically asks you to list all educational
              background.  Same goes for previous jobs.
              Obviously we disagree:  you think you're right, I think I'm
              \_ As someone in a position to hire, I will tell you that
                 I wouldn't like it. You can think you are right all you
                 \_ Actually, I disagree with you on whether it's a lie of
                    omission (I say it isn't, and I still think you're wrong
                    about this), but I agree with you on not
                    liking it:  As someone in a position to hire, I wouldn't
                    like applicants omitting a Ph.D. if they got one.
                    To summarize:  It's not dishonest, as I originally
                    said, but your employer probably won't like it.
                    Part Deux:  Be careful how easily you throw around the
                    label "liar".  I wouldn't want to work with someone who
                    thought like that, but that's just an IMO.
                    \_ based on all the other stuff that gets posted to the
                       motd, what are the chances you want to work with
                       anyone on the motd anyway?
                       \_ why not?  this is all bullshit and venting.  do you
                          think any of these people are *really* like this?
                          \_ That the motd is a more insulated way to
                             communicate (i.e. you aren't risking a punch in
                             the face) does not excuse being a complete
                             asshole.  People who are assholes on the motd
                             are either
                             (a) assholes in real life or
                             (b) too cowardly to be assholes in real life like
                                 they are on the motd.
                             Either way, would you want to work with them, or
                             indeed spend any time with them?  -- ilyas
                 \_ yea, whatever, all the ceos are liars anyway.
                    \_ but they have the hiring money and you don't.
                       \_ how do you think they become ceos in the first
                          \_ they all lie on their resumes!  of course!
                             none of them went to a pricey mba school after
                             clawing their way up the corporate ladder and
                             destroying the careers of dozens of others on
                             their way to the top!  nononono, they simply
                             wrote some random shit up on their resume that
                             no one would check like "senior vp, ibm sales,
                             world wide, 1987-1996" and bingo!   Profit!
                             \_ Have you read a quarterly report before?
                                Or go to a Q&A session following an
                                earnings announcement?  It's all about
                                emphasizing strengths and hiding
                                weaknesses.  Get real.
                 \_ So if I ask you some questions about your company
                    during the interview, will you tell the complete
                    truth and include all the things you hate about your
                    \_ What the hell does this have to do anything? You
                       may as well lie and say you have 10 years designing
                       ASICs when you have 0, right? Why put your real
                       name on the application? Maybe you should omit your
                       prison record, too. This last one gets lots of
                       people fired.
                       \_ What does it have to do with anything?  It tells
                          me that all the talk about honesty is full of
                          \_ Go ahead and omit your time in prison. Hey,
                             the corporation lies, too. Your ass will
                             still be fired for it.
                             \_ well, it hasn't.  in fact, I am doing
                                really well.  thanks for your concern
                                though, corporate dick sucker hypocrite.
                                \_ What were you imprisoned for?
                       \_ You lost me.  What does the candidate lying about
                          his background have to do with the company employees
                          coming clean when asked about the company?
                          \_ Ask the person I was responding to.
2004/5/15-17 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:30239 Activity:very high
5/15    I am thinking of getting a MS-Finance (14 courses) with emphasis
        on computational / modeling areas to complement my CS background
        Has anyone had any school or work experience with this?  Is it
        a good idea?  (note: not in bay area, so it's not a berkeley-
        specific question)
        \_ I thought it was MS Money
        \_ No, but I am interested in finance, too. Which program are you
           applying to? What will you be doing after graduation?
           \_ I am working in the Chicago area and looking for a
              part-time program so I don't have too many choices.
              I have looked at U of Chicago part-time MBA and IIT
              (Illinois Institute of Technology) MS-Finance.  UofC
              has a famous name but is expensive (company will
              only pay part of it), takes longer, and requires
              courses that I am not interested in.  I am not too
              sure what I will be doing, but preferably something
              where a CS background and decent math foundation can
              come into play.  Don't mind doing investments either.
              I have some experience with oracle financial and hyperion,
              so with a MS-finance, it's probably easy to get a job
              in corporate finance, but corporate finance bores me
              to tears.  My CS/engineering experience is in wireless
              infrastructure, but this whole outsourcing thing kind
              of spooked me, and I want to spread my bets a little.
              What is your situation?
              \_ Then don't look for an MBA. Get a masters in Mathematical
                 Finance or Financial Engineering. Dunno which schools in
                 Chicago area offer such degrees..
                        [useless troll deleted]
                 \_ What are the schools in the US that offer these
                    \_ Lots of business schools, including Haas, see:
                       \_ Thanks, that's very helpful!
2003/12/1-2 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:11272 Activity:nil
12/1    Anyone tired of coding?  How long till you burnt out?
        Any other alternative fields for you?
        \_ Why are you sick of coding?  Maybe you should try to get a tech
           lead type job so you do more management than coding?  Maybe
           it is the job, do you think you'd enjoy coding more if you were
           working for yourself/something you believe in?  Other ideas are
           try to get a producer/manager/marketing job in the software
           industry.  There is a serious shortage of good technical people
           in those jobs and if you have to people skills to do a decent job
           you will be in high demand.  But if you just want out of tech, well
           you can always go back to school and get a masters or PhD.
           \_ as a grad student i can tell you right now that going back
              to school just because you don't know what to do with your
              life is a bad idea.  as it happens, i *do* know why i'm here,
              but those who don't tend to end up just as unhappy as they
              were before, only with less money.  grad school is for those
              who *really* know what they like, not for those trying to
              figure it out.
              \_ True.  I'm not advocating going back to school just because.
                 Although if you aren't sure a Masters program might be a
                 good way to tell.
                 \_ I dissagree.  As a graduate student your mentors are
                    all people who think an academic career is a great idea
                    and who will try to convince you of this even if it's
                    not right for you.   Even on full scholarship, the cost
                    in lost wages for a two years masters program would buy you
                    an awful lot in the real world if there's something
                    else more fulfilling you're missing out on.
                    Unless you already have pretty much made up your mind,
                    it's a bad idea to even fill out the goddamn application.
                     \_ Look, if there is something you've wanted to study
                        but didn't grad school is an option.  It isn't for
                        everyone and you always have the option to drop
                        out if it is going badly.  I'm just saying that
                        sometimes poeple don't even think about going
                        back to school to do something other than what they
                        decided on in their early twenties.  People here
                        graduated from Cal and are smart and can go back
                        and learn something new and it will be obscenely
                        easy this time around.  So you won't make that much
                        money for a few years, so what?  Obviously money isn't
                        buying this guy much happiness as it is.
                        \_  I'm not claiming that money buys happiness, but
                            I will claim that fulfilling jobs tend to
                            pay well.  An abrupt career change for a
                            successful but unhappy software guy is likely
                            to lead to something that pays enough to
                            own a home and start a family...unless he
                            decides to go to grad school.  Obviously
                            the benefit of grad school exceeds the cost
                            for some people, but I am claiming that many
                            people underestimate the true cost.
                            \_ While some things (married/have kid/have house)
                               may make it harder to go back to school, they
                               can be worked around.  However worrying about
                               the cost of being out of the workplace for
                               a few years seems counterproductive.  A lot
                               of people find themselves hating coding because
                               they worried more about what paied well than
                               what they enjoyed.  If you are youngish, have
                               been paied well for years (and should have some
                               savings) it really isn't an issue.  Does a year
                               here or there really matter?
                               \_ fine. you've convinced me.  i guess being
                                  in a 5-6 year grad program distorts one's
                                  perspective a bit.
                                  \_ Well a phd is a lot more commitment than
                                     a masters.
           \_ Master's or PhD in *what*? History?
            \_ Do you love history?  Do you think you have what it takes to
               get a job as a history prof/lecturer?  Go for it.  There are
               of options outside of the tech field, they all have tradeoffs.
               \_ The point here is that the typical tech guy is only going to
                  be able to get a PhD in a tech field without a *lot* of
                  additional schooling. Not so law school or MBA.
                  \_ Are you FUCKING NUTS?  Are you saying a CS PhD requires
                     less schooling than an MBA?  What color is the sky on
                     the planet you are from?
                     \_ I had to read it a couple times to parse, but I think
                        he was comparing a) PhD tech b) PhD nontech and c) MBA,
                        and saying  a < b, and c < b. Or something.
                     \_ A CS PhD for a CS major is less additional schooling
                        than a history PhD for a CS major. JD and MBA are less
                        than both and probably as satisfying.
        \_ Grad school pays more than unemployment.
2003/9/11 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:10147 Activity:nil
9/10    Can i buy PhD strips at a drugstore?  if not then where?
        \_ No, but I think Walgreen's sells MBA jerky (spicy and regular)
2003/9/11 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:10144 Activity:kinda low
9/10    Re: MBA thread below.  I wanted to get an MBA a couple of years back.
        I got all the applications and even visited a couple of schools.  Then
        I started reading books by successful businessman like Sam Walton,
        Michael Dell, Andy Grove, etc.  *NONE* of these men have MBAs.  But
        they're still very sucessful.  That's when I had an epiphany:
        Entreprenurial capitalism cannot be taught.  It is the fire in the
        belly that's either there or isn't there.  Getting an MBA will help
        you get a high paying job. But if you want to do something greater
        like actually CREATE jobs for MBAs, you need to look deep inside and
        see if you have the passion to sell. -self employed sodan
        \_ You're right.  Also, Bill Gates doesn't have any college degree.  I
           inadverdently started this religious war a while ago--my conclusion
           is that, like all non-vocational schools (does med school count?)
           it's not meant to teach you how to how to do a particular job, but
           rather ought to give you some tools and resources to make your task
           easier.  The contacts one makes probably aren't bad either.
           However, a lot of people on soda seem to have some religious
           zealotry about any scholastic learning being evil--whatever.
           Just inform yourself and do what's right for you.  -John
           rather ought to give you some tools and resources.  The contacts
           one makes probably aren't bad either.  However, a lot of people on
           soda seem to have some religious zealotry about learning anything
           in a school being evil--whatever.  Just inform yourself and decide
           what's right for you.  -John
2003/7/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:29026 Activity:moderate
7/13    Similar to the MBA post below, how useless is a MS in engineering?
        If everyone has a HS degree and companies prefer HS or better, then
        doesn't having a BS give you more advantage? By the same token,
        if everyone has a BS degree (which is the case esp. in Silicon
        Valley) and companies prefer BS or higher, then isn't it better
        to have a MS degree? And by the same token, if MANY people in Silicon
        Valley have a MS degree, isn't it better to have a PhD or at least
        a MS degree?
        \_ personally, I used MS degree as a way to change major, essentially.
           Other than poor timing (i got my CS Masters at 2000 spring),
           I actually think it's worth it, mainly because I like the subject.
           For other who are thinking of getting a degree in the same subject
           as your undergraduate, you really need to use your time wisely
           during the 2 years in school.  It is almost too short to get
           much accomplished, and you kind of need to accomplish something
           while you are in school to extract the most of the degree.  This
           means you need to be specific on what you want to do and work with
           a professor in that subject beginning in the first semester.
        \_ Depends on what you want to do and what your other skills are.  If
           you're trying to get by on a degree alone that won't cut it.  You
           *must* have many years of job experience today to get a decent job
           no matter what academic paperwork you've got.  Many places don't
           care what you have as long as you have the minimum degree and then
           they want lots of experience on top of it.  More degree and less
           experience isn't it most of the time.  OTOH if you want to stay in
           the ivory tower, you don't need any experience.  Just keep racking
           up theory classes and publish papers.
        \_ companies don't prefer "BS or better". They want that as a prereq,
           and then look at everything else. An MS might get edge you out over
           someone else if you're close. Also, it might help you get a job that
           they might not give to a BS at certain companies like Google or
           \_ Google: be at One with the Net.  Join the Google Cult today!
        \_ Figure out how many other people in your field have MS and plan
           accordingly.  Be aware that if you're looking for entry-level
           work (gods forbid), an MS may make you look overqualified.
           work (gods forbid), an MS may make you look over qualified.
2003/7/13 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:29022 Activity:high
7/13    To the (thankfully deleted) MBA troll:  I don't have anger management
        issues.  You're an idiot.  Note subtle yet crucial difference.  -John
        \_ personally, I did not participate in the troll/flamewar, but
           as a grad student in physics at a top school, i do not think you
           can discount my freinds as idiots, and everyone i know has
           complete contempt for MBAs, including faculty who've taught
           them at the bschool.  With a few notable exceptions, they are
           backstabbing idiots. If you don't want to see people badmouth
           MBAs, don't post about MBAs.  You're whining will not make poeple
           MBAs, don't post about MBAs.  Your whining will not make poeple
           start respecting MBAs.
           \_ You are an idiot. I think people have contempt for those who
              have an MBA and use that to mean something or to throw their
              weight around when it's just a Master's degree. If you take it
              at face value it's not bad to have. A lot of my coworkers have
              advanced degrees in Physics, EE, Aerospace engineering, and
              such and a lot of them later on got their MBA, too. One in
              particular has a PhD in EE and two Master's degrees. He got an
              MBA, too. Is he an idiot? The only idiot here is you, but I
              attribute that to inexperience. The more you can educate
              yourself the better. Even if MBA is about socializing that's
              a good skill to have and management definitely appreciates the
              effort. You'll probably get an MBA 15 years from now yourself.
        \_ I find this whole thread quite entertaining.  Let me give you all
           a little wisdom that you may not understand right now but might
           eventually get it in future.  "Formal education will get you a
           good job, self-education will make you rich."  Entreprenurial
           capitalism is not measured by the number of degrees you have, but
           by how much passion and hard work you put into your ideas and your
           company.  The world's richest man is a college dropout.  If you
           want to help run a successful company and be on a salary and bonus
           plan, then an MBA will get your there.  But if you want to be
           a "millionaire next door" (just like the book), don't get an
           MBA, start your own business.  Be passionate about selling your
           dream.  And don't ever give up.  -self employed sodan
2003/7/10-12 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:28999 Activity:high
7/10    Can anyone recommend a good GMAT study guide?  I'm thinking about
        taking it but don't have the first idea of where to start.  -John
        \_ You want an MBA?  Don't bother.  The market is flooded.
           \_ All the more reason to get one, no? Otherwise you will be
              left behind.
              \_ No, quite the opposite in this case.  The point of an MBA
                 used to be that there were very few and getting one was
                 difficult and expensive and only the elite got them so it
                 had intrinsic value.  Now that any prole can get one it
                 loses all value.  It is not the same as a HS diploma or BA/BS
                 or whatever standard minimal degree is required today.  Unless
                 you're already enrolled/halfway through or already have one
                 there's no point in thinking about it.  You're too late to
                 that game.
                 \_ Duly noted, but there are other reasons for going to
                    business school than what everyone else is doing.  So,
                    can anyone recommend a good GMAT study guide?  -John
                    \_ Other reasons?  Like you don't get anything from your
                       trust fund without another degree?  What reasons?
        \_ The kaplan book + CD was incredibly helpful for the GRE, and
                \_ Have fun being a minimum wage reject, Naderite.
           boosted my scores by *alot*.  If I were to study for any other
           standardized test, that's the first place I'd look now.
                \_ Many thanks  -John
        \_ Have fun selling your soul, John.
           \_ Nah, those days are over.  I know a few MBAs and looked into it
              myself.  There's no money in a freshly minted MBA anymore.  If
              you had 10+ years of real world *business* experience and then
              got an MBA then it'd be worth something maybe.  John isn't
              selling his soul, he's wasting his time and money.  I was going
              to do it about a year ago and it was a bad idea then.
                \_ God how fucking THICK ARE YOU?  I'm not selling my soul,
                   I'm not doing it to earn more fucking money, I'm thinking
                   about going to bus school to LEARN shit.  I've spent the
                   last three years helping to put together a consulting
                   business, a large part of which consists of knowing how
                   to talk to our clients' senior management staff, and
                   anticipating what they think their needs are.  Like it or
                   not, these people talk MBA, they do not talk "unemployed
                   slacker living in mom's garage", like you obviously would
                   like more people to.  And sign your posts, you cretinous
                   ignorant poltroon.  You are pathetic.  -John
                   \_ Touchy.  Ok, you're so smart so lemme learn ya sometin!
                      You don't learn shit getting an MBA.  The purpose is to
                      meet people, make connections, etc.  Sounds you're
                      doing just fine there thus you don't need an MBA.  I
                      wish you well despite your ignorance and anger
                      management issues.  At no time did I state or imply I
                      wish others to do poorly so it isn't all that obvious,
                      is it?  I wish people would find the right thing to do
                      for themselves and do it, not mindlessly sign up for
                      now worthless MBA programs.
2003/5/30 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:28576 Activity:moderate
5/29    Need resources on applying to bschool. Hints, advice, etc. ok thx
        \_ Don't be lazy. Do your own research.
           \_ this is what bschool is all about.  someone on the motd will
              do his research for him, he'll get into bschool, get an
              MBA, and be hired at a fancy management consulting firm.
              He will then give all of his consulting advice based on
              responses to motd posts.  In a couple of years, look for
              fortune 500 companies to start using ED as their standard
              text editor and giving huge campaign contributions to the
              libertarian party.
              \_ anonymous motd comic, is that you???
                 \_ nah, I was in meetings all day.  sometimes a person just
                    doesn't get a chance to be around for these things.  --amc
                    \_ perhaps "amc" should really stand for "anonymous motd
                       chorus." -mbamocker
                       \_ I'm willing to share.  It's a self amusement thing,
                          not an ego thing.  Feel free to sign off.  --amc
        \_ Don't be this guy:
           \_ My coworker passed by him when we ran the Bay to Breakers.
              Rather sucky story.
        \_ bschool?
           \_ Prolly, beeznus skool.
        \_ hints, tips, advice: study hard for the test.  there's nothing
           intellectually difficult but there are types of problems you won't
           find on other bubble tests.  carefully research the schools you
           might want to attend.  it's all about who you'll meet and making
           contacts.  do *not* at anytime slack off with the belief that your
           superior intelligence will get you through any part of the process.
           it won't.  keep in mind that MBAs aren't getting jobs now and most
           never will.  ask yourself why you'd spend that much money to get a
           degree that won't be worth much when you graduate in 2-4 years. i
           got as far as taking prep courses and taking the test.  i did fine
           on the test and the schools i was talking to said i'd almost
           certainly get in but i never applied.  definitely call the school
           and establish a personal relationship with the people there.  an
           mba is the ultimate in the "who you know, not what you know" line
           of thought.
2002/12/5 [Transportation/Airplane, Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:26718 Activity:kinda low
12/4    Get your ticket to heaven:
        \_ I see all the failed dot-commers are starting to graduate from
           business school?  -John
2002/9/23-24 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:25980 Activity:high
9/23    You're applying for your second PhD in B-school.  It's mostly
        because you didn't find a permanent job after two post docs in
        your first field of choice.  You think the PhD in org. management
        is really interesting (no joke) and plus it might make you more
        marketable than you currently are.  Is there any decent way to
        answer direct questions about 'why are you changing fields'
        without sounding like a total loser?  ps - he thinks with his
        past work he is pretty competetive despite his failure to land
        a job in his prev field.  flame away and pls email if you wish,
        thanks very much in advance for your advice, motdgods --hahnak
        \_ why are you going for a PhD, as opposed to something less
           time-consuming (and perhaps just as marketable) such as
           an MBA?
           \_ because he *likes* research.  and bc he wants to stay
              in research (academia -> professorship if all goes well)
              hope this helps...
        \_ my response depends on a PhD in what field. English literature?
           Medieval music? French? Electrical engineering?
           \_ his first was in physics this second one would be in
              org. management.  hope this helps
                \_ in that case my response to your first is WHAT ARE YOU
                        STUPID? You asked for it. My second response is
                        What are you, stupid?
                        \_ why do you even bother posting?
2002/9/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Industry/Startup] UID:25865 Activity:high
9/12    What some ex-dot commers are doing:
        \_ What's really funny is that, bust or no, a lot of my fellow
           contractor/consultant friends decide to drop out and do "hey-
           I-have-a-life-to-lead" sort of things, like go learn a language
           and grow wine or whatnot, even though they are thoroughly
           employable, and could still be doing fairly lucrative consulting
           work.  Not many people I know who work for large organizations as
           permanent employees take that option, usually because of some sort
           of fear of the uncertain (these are generally single, young,
           without kids, educated.)  I wonder whether it just has something to
           do with the way some people look at work (entrepreneurs vs.
           employees) rather than "oh, he failed, now he's a slacker".)  -John
           \_ They _say_ they can be doing lots of exciting and well paid
              things but _choose_ to grow wine and attend community college.
              Sounds more like sour grapes to me.  "I can be successful anytime
              I want but I'm gunna grow grapes!"
                \_ No, these are people who've turned down contract
                   extensions.  Job situation in Europe isn't quite as bad as
                   it is here.  Maybe just an early midlife crisis :)  -John
                   \_ Jobs here aren't that bad, it just isn't as golden as
                      it used to be.
                        \_ That's nice to hear--most people I speak with give
                           me the impression that it's pretty grim, even for
                           high-end IT professionals.  -John
        \_ I like the guy who is going to Harvard Business School *after*
           running his own company into the ground. Way to go! --dim
           \_ Hey!  He's got experience now!
              \_ Yeah, so why go to Harvard?
2002/8/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:25558 Activity:insanely high
8/14    Stanford, MIT, and pretty much all the other UCs have a 1 year MS
        program upon satisfactory completion of your EECS degree (and they
        don't even have to take the GRE). How come Berkeley has no such
        program?   -junior/senior now regretting coming to Berkeley
        \_ Because UCB doesn't give a shit about you at all and only 'teaches'
           undergraduate courses because they're required to by the state?
           \_ an MS program wouldn't involve undergraduate courses, twink. -tom
              \_ Tom, do you have a masters degree from UCB, Stanford, or MIT?
                 Do you have a masters degree at all?
              \_ Child, with your *B*A or *B*S you're _not_ a grad student and
                 they're not doing you any favors.  UCB would do *only* PhD
                 research if they were allowed.  MS would get fucked, too.
        \_ What? NOW you notice?
        \_ UCB sucks.  plain and simple.
                \_ you weren't forced to attend it asshole.
        \_ Because Cal doesn't bother running vending machine MS programs to
           make money.
                \_ all the other schools, 1st tier or 2nd tier do it. Why not
                   Cal? Are they not doing it for the principle? Bull shit.
                   I'm a Cal student and I want my fuckin' easy MS degree
                   just like all the others.
                   \_ schools like these have thus devalued the MS degree,
                      just like the slew of 2nd rate business schools like
                      pepperdine pumping out thousands of MBAs a year have
                      devalued all but the 5 top MBA schools. -bhc
                      \_ Which are the top 5?  Is Haas one of them?
                        \_ Haas isn't top 5 or even top 10. If all the other
                           schools devalue the BS/MS degree, then it is even
                           more important for Cal BS graduates to get an easy
                           MS degree. Cal SUCKS.
                           \_ you're a moron.
                                \_ as i told the guy above, why'd you
                                   come then? were you not "smart"
                                   enough to get into 'furd or mit?
                                   \_ whether or not he's smart doesn't make
                                      Cal a better school.  If you were smart
                                      enough to get into MIT or Stanford you
                                      might know that instead of waving your
                                      GO BEAR! flag around blindly.
                                        \_ no. if cal is the best place
                                           you could get into, then you
                                           should be damn happy they
                                           even accepted you, lest you
                                           wanted to go to an even worse
                                           \_ I couldn't afford private school.
              untrue. You can keep telling it to yourself, though, if it makes
              you fell better.
                The point is that even the lesser schools have a MS program
        \_ besides, it's generally accepted in the outside world that a
           Cal BS is the equivalent of a 'furd MS. everybody knows it's
           easy to get a second rate, add-On MS from those schools.
           \_ I can't speak for CS, but in civil engineering, this is simply
              untrue. You'll do fine with a Cal degree, FWIW, but the Stanford
              kids take a fast track to the best stuff available. I never meet
              any because they tend to be two or more strata above where I
              and the rest of my state school fellows work. I'm not complaining
              about it. It was what I found when I got out to the real world.
           \_ Really?  You mean there's no point for a Cal CS grad to get the
              'furd MS degree?
           \_ that's what your Cal advisor would tell you.  They'd be wrong but
              thats what they'd tell you...
           \_ WRONG. A degree DOES mean something. It means a lot to stupid
              recruiters. It means a lot to the real world. It means a lot
              in the Silicon Valley-- "everyone has at least a MS in
              Silicon Valley"
           \_ As someone who actually has a bullshit vending machine MS degree
              in CS from 'furd, it totally does make a significant difference
              in the job market. Getting my MS at 'furd was the easiest year
              of school I ever had. Spent most of my time hanging out at Fry's
              and surfing pr0n. But it never fails to impress ppl when I tell
              them I went to Cal AND Stanfurd. I've gotten big bonuses and
              raises, have never been laid off. Made six-figs salary my 3rd
              year out of school. One time a recruiter rewrote my resume so
              that my education was at the very top. One of the best
              investments I ever made.
              \_ I was admitted to the full-time MSCS at 'furd nine years ago,
                 but I couldn't afford the tuition so I went to get a job
                 instead.  Now I'm thinking about the HCP part-time MS.  Do you
                 think having been admitted will give me an advantage when I
                 apply now?
           \_ a degree isn't important when the market is good. But when it
                sours and everyone who is competing for your job also has a
                Furd/MIT/Cal BS degree, who is going to get more notice from
                head hunters? A Cal BS guy with 10 years of experience or a
                Furd BS/MS guy with 10 years of experience? If I were a
                clueless headhunter, the answer would be obvious to me, and
                if I were a clued headhunter, I wouldn't be one in the first
2002/1/17 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/Berkeley/HKN] UID:23578 Activity:high
1/16    How do you view grades? (your perspective on them)
        \_ Like this:
                A: opportunity to work in the industry or research.
                   More likely to go to grad school or get an MBA
                B: coding monkey
                C: sys admin
                D: QA
                F: flunk out, work in the industry and get rich. Hire a bunch
                   of people who got As, Bs, Cs, and Ds (Bill Gates).
                \_ What drugs are you on?  I want some!  QA is QA because they
                   never went to school.  Sysadmins get Bs because they take
                   classes they like but don't show up that much.  Code monkeys
                   get Cs because they take classes they hate thinking they'll
                   be the next dotcom/netscape millionaire.  Cal doesn't make
                   any MBAs.  They all went to Stanford where _everyone_ gets
                   an A.  And those who flunked out went to some JC and now
                   are assistant manager at some shoe store in the mall.
                   \_ gee, the Haas School of Business (one of the top 10
                      business schools in the country) would be surprised to
                      hear it doesn't make any MBA's.  -tom
        \_ Like this:
                A: hard worker and big time ass kisser
                B: hard worker -or- big time ass kisser
                C: hard worker but Prof/TA/grader never sees student in class
                D: hard worker but in wrong class, kissing ass to avoid F
                F: just fucked
           During my time in school I never noticed *any* correlation between
           intellect and grades.  The rest of life tends to reflect this also.
        \_ If there were no such grades as A's and B's, then my report cards
           would look pretty damn good.
        \_ If you're not planning to go to grad school, focus on passing
        \_ they give idiots a false sense of security when they get A's
           (see hkn), and they give smart people a undeserved insecurities
           (see nweaver, maybe).
                \_ nweaver is a smart person?
        \_ As a source of random bits slightly correlated with course
           performance, and even more slightly correlated with
           intelligence/clue.  --HKN member and proud (and not because of
           anything to do with grades or GPAs)
           \_ Sign your name, alexf.
              \_ Hi ilyas. That wasn't me. -alexf
           \_ what would you estimate to be the correlation coefficient?
              \_ From what I've seen in the EECS Dept, they're probably around
                 0.7 and 0.3, respectively. Of course, these are rough and
                 based on rather limited observations. Order of magnitude
                 seems about right though. -above poster
                 \_ Sign your name, alexf.
                    \_ See above.
        \_ where can one find statistics about grades for uc berkeley?
                \_ who cares. Most of the rich & infamous don't have good
                   grades-- Bill Gates, Ellison, W Bush, McNealy... the list
                   goes on and on.
2002/1/3 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:23439 Activity:nil
1/2     If I apply to a MS/MBA program, will I need to take both the GRE
        and the GMAT?
        \_ depends on school.  But mostly yes.
2001/7/18-19 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:21840 Activity:high 50%like:22540 50%like:22762 50%like:23518
7/18    How can I get into grad school?
                - depressed undergrad going into last semester
        \_ you sick fuck.  why don't you to kossovo and have something
           REAL to be depressed about.  Fuck your angst.  Maybe you
           should have thought about this a year ago.
        \_ Why you wanna go there? Apply to some whack school in England.
           then come back here and people will be all like, wow, a Master's
           from some school in England.
           \_ ok, the above two posts are humorous, but I'm serious.
              \_ ok you weasel, are your parents rich?
                 \_ more than our friends in Kossovo... but not enough to
                    buy me into grad school. But I did have to pay my
                    own way through undergrad and even took a year off
                    to work full-time... does that count for anything?
                    \_ [ note to motd editors, the following is not
                         kinneydirvel(tm). please don't delete it. ]
                       Work doesn't count for much for grad school unless
                       If you really want to get into grad school try a
                       second tier school
                       you worked on something outstanding (ex you worked
                       on BGPv4 for Procket under the direction of Tony Li).
                       If you really want to get into grad school here
                       are somethings you might want to try:
                       1. Get a good score on the general GRE (2200+) and
                          subject GRE (700+).
                       3. If you are under 3.0 apply to state school,
                          otherwise apply to one of the less prestigious
                          public schools (rutgers, ut austin, uci, etc)
                          or private schools.
                       4. Assuming you haven't worked for a famous prof.
                          or other well known person in your field already,
                          consider going to work for such a person. If
                          you do a good job, you will get a good letter
                          of rec improving you chances.
                          A variation on this theme is to go to work at
                          a startup where a prof. works. If it goes
                          somewhere you are rich, otherwise you use the
                          prof. as you ticket to grad school.
                       5. Join a company like Sun, Cisco, IBM, HP,
                          Lockheed and go to the farm on the SITN program.
                          This is the cheapest way to get a degree since
                          the company pays for your classes, and the company
                          pays you to work, so by the time you finish your
                          degree you've gained valuable work experience at
                          a well known company, you have some cash/options
                          and you have a degree from a well known university
                          \_ For #5, is it easier to get in thru SITN than
                             thru regular admission?
                             \_ The farm maintains that it is just as hard
                                to get into SITN as with regular grad school
                                but in reality it is easier if you go the
                                SITN route. SITN is a big money maker, so
                                virtually no one is refused. (okay if you
                                were 2.0 at eastern wisconsin adjunct teachers
                                college and you try to go the SITN route
                                you won't get in, but if you are ~ 3.0 @ Cal
                                it shouldn't be too hard)
                          \_ I have done some "research" for a professor of
                             both IEOR and CS... do you think his letter will
                             count for much for a CS program? And I have one
                             semester left at Cal... how can I go about trying
                             to get more research experience?
                             \_ This all depends on what sort of "research"
                                and which IEOR prof. Unless the research is
                                unique or gets published/patented its not
                                going to help you that much, but if the prof.
                                likes you and you get a good letter of rec.
                                it will improve your chances of getting in.
                                The bad part is that you will need three
                                letters of rec so getting in good with one
                                prof. is only 1/6 of the battle.
                                Unless you are over 3.0 in Eng, SITN or
                                similar at SCU or USC is your best/cheapest
                \_ Hold on, the original poster did not specify which major he
                   wants to get in to. For MBA, work experience DO count, along
                   with your GRE/GMAT scores. I agree with the above poster
                   that you could try to get your company to pay for at least
                   half the cost. - jthoms
1999/10/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:16704 Activity:insanely high
10/13   Let's say that I make it to a second tier MS CS program. Once I get
        in, how easy/common is it to transfer to a first tier Phd CS program?
        \_ Depends entirely on the quality of your research.  If your research
           is of stellar quality, you will have little problem.  But then if
           you were capable of stellar research, how did you end up in a
           second tier MS CS program? -- ilyas
           \_ You suddenly decided in your fourth year that CS was for you?
           \_ many people gain readiness for various stages in life at
              different times.  maybe this one was ready for a PhD program
              at a later time.
              \_ People don't just spontaneously become brilliant at 24.
                 You can't become "ready" for a first tier PhD program,
           \_ the crappiest president this place has seen since jsl.
                 you either have what it takes, and have a research track
                 record + grades to prove it, or not. -- ilyas
                 \_ Yeah, but you can decide to start working hard and
                    stop slacking.  You don't have to be brilliant to get
                    into a good PhD program.  - mikeym
                    \_ I maintain that if you are not brilliant, first
                       tier PhD programs are not for you: you will not help
                       your advisor, and you will not help yourself.
                       First tier PhD programs are for the future leaders of
                       science, not some mediocrity with a vanity problem,
                       who decides one day to "stop slacking" and "work hard".
                       Such a person may even be able to get into a good
                       program, like a kid sneaking in to an exclusive
                       nightclub.  But a good program will always remain for
                       him just that: an exclusive nightclub of the mind,
                       where he will always feel out of place. -- ilyas
                        \_ Wow... that's stunningly arrogant and elitist.  Who
                           says this late comer to PhD-dom isn't brilliant?
                           Who says that working hard (kissing ass) all through
                           school is a sign of brilliance?  Neither is true.
                           People who work hard are (mostly) doing so *because*
                           they're *not* brilliant and *need* to work hard to
                           stay even with their slacking but smarter peers.
                           You have this all backwards.
                           \_ If he has to "stop slacking" and "work hard" he
                              isn't, which is exactly what I was saying.  You
                              are right, what I am saying IS elitist.  Human
                              beings are not created equal.  First tier schools
                              are for first tier people.  -- ilyas
                                \_ The original poster never said he was a slack.
                                   I believe mikeym added that twist.
        \_ I'm going to gradschool for those 3 letters after my name:
           M.B.A. - paolo (who is sick of all this grad school bullshit)
                \_ But has the right attitude to be a good MBA.
        \_ Why are you getting a CS PhD from *any* school?  The only thing
           you can really do with it is teach at a second rate school.  You
           need to think more about what you plan to do with it than how to
           get it.  You sure as hell won't make more money with it.
                \_ another example where people reply WITHOUT reading the
                   original post. The guy said he wanted to go to
                   FIRST TIER Phd program. FUCKIN MORON.
                   \_ Hypocrite.  I was questioning the value of *any* PhD.
                      *You* need to read the post you're replying to before
                      *you* reply.  You are a complete fucking idiot.  First
                      Tier vs. Second Tier has nothing to do with what *I*
                      was saying.  You are lower than low.  Dumber than dumb.
                      To attack someone for not reading when you haven't read
                      what you're attacking makes you a hypocrite of the lowest
                      order.  I lack the words to describe how completely and
                      utterly S-T-U-P-I-D you are.  Return your diploma to
                      the registrar's office immediately.
                      \_ Feel better now that you got that off your chest?
                        \_ I always feel better after correcting a dumb
                           shit for brains hypocritical asshole.  Yes, thanks.
                           If I had my giant Thesaurus here, I'd have felt
                           that much better, but it was sufficient as it was.
                           \_ If you're interested in money only, a PhD would
                              not be the best. But I'd wager they could
                              do 10X the things you can do. The only things
                              undergrads are really armed with is the 170
                              series. A PhD spends his whole life in 170
                              style concepts, and when they get out to
                              go work, they innovate, not copy, IMO.
                                \_ True if I was a coder.  Since I'm not, and
                                   I have worked closely with several PhD's, I
                                   feel pretty secure saying that a PhD can
                                   *not* do what I do.  No, I can't do what
                                   they can do either but frankly I found 170
                                   really really really dull so I'm ok with
                                \_ When I can actually manage to get enough
                                   sleep, 170 makes sense and is kind of cool.
                                   I wish there were some way to take 170 and
                                   average a reasonable amount of sleep.
                                        -- a current 170 hoser
1999/2/9-10 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA] UID:15377 Activity:nil
2/8     Does the haas school do transcripts of commencement addresses?  I'm
        interested in what Andy Grove said at the MBA commencement a couple
        of years ago.  Thanks.
        \_ I don't think so, but they have been videotaping the recent
           commencement ceremonies. -- yumin (Haas '96)
1996/11/16 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32004 Activity:nil
11/15   Haas business school is looking for HTML coder type person with good
        PR skills.  See /usr/local/csua/jobs/Haas -dbushong
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Academia:GradSchool:MBA: