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2018/06/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
6/22    

2003/5/29-30 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:28572 Activity:moderate
5/29    So whatever happened to tjb?  Did he graduate?  Is he working now?
        Grad school?
        \_ Last I heard, no: he went to University of Illinois or something,
           got arrested, got kicked out of there too, got sent to an
           inpatient psychiatric ward, continues to send email to Pres Bush
           with 'advice'.  You can probably google and get the same info.
           \_ damn, it's hard to figure out if this is a joke or not.
              \_ I don't think it is. -geordan
                 \_ yeah but you can't be sure.  he wouldn't be the first Cal
                    person I know to end up in the psych ward.
        \_ link:csua.org/u/32d -pld
        \_ I think you csua people should be ashamed of yourselves,
           pushing that poor man over the edge like you did.
           \_ I'll add it to my resume.
2003/5/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Academia/GradSchool] UID:28514 Activity:high
5/21    Explosion reported at Yale University.  Check AP wires.
        \_ I'll wander over and check it out  -new haven resident
        \_ I was just on the roof of the yale engineering building with
           binoculars checking shit out.  Engineering is a couple
           blocks form the law school.  there is nothing to see.
           the reports of "white smoke rising over the city" are almost
           certainly some numnutz reporter's observation of the steam from the
           physical plant building right next door to the law school.
           There are lots of cops and reporters, obviously, but they have
           reached a steady state by now. No one was hurt, and there have been
           no threats against yale or new haven.  Barbara Bush is not in
           New Haven right now(yale just finished exams last week.)
        \_ No reported injuries so far.  When did it happen?
        \_ Confined to one mail room, Bush was on campus a few hours prior.
           \_ He was in New London, not New Haven.
              \_  ...briefly, earlier in the day.  almost certainly unrelated.
        \_ I hope Rory hasn't got there yet!
        \_ It's a University.  Shit blows up at schools all the time.
        \_ Did someone leave the gas on in the lounge kitchen?  Yes, I know
           some people said it was the mail room.
           \_ Current wherabouts of Ted Kazynski?
              \_ Federal Pen, duh.
2003/5/19-20 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas, Academia/GradSchool] UID:28486 Activity:very high
5/19    I know most people here are alumni.  Anybody know new grads graduating
        this year?  I'm wondering how they're doing in terms of job search.
        CS/EECS grads I mean.   Are people moving back home with their parents
        and spending their time goofing off?
        \_ The smart ones won't be goofing off.
        \_ We used to call it meditating.
           \_ Do you like to meditate with your left hand or your right?
              \_ Or your own mouth?
                 \_ Ew.
        \_ It took me about 6-7 months to find a job. - 2002 grad
           \_ same here.
           \_ tobin do you live across the street from Sigma Kappa?
              how many tobins can there be in this world? - danh
           \_ clearly we need more H1-B people, it should have taken you a year
              \_ no, he should've worked at McD's serving H1b's on their once
                 a week lunch break.
        \_ working at CERN for awhile.  Then... the World! -- tobin (2003 grad)
           \_ So you plan to retire from CERN, eh?
                \_ Nobody retires from CERN.  They are retired.  -John
                   \_ Good point.
        \_ I'm moving back home and looking for a job - sp 2003 grad
           \_ Where's that?  India?
        \_ New grad hiring is fairly limited right now.  We generally
           won't look at a new grad seriously unless they built something
           as a special project or outside of class.  The ones that just
           listen to lectures and do their homework aren't typically
           productive enough to bother with.  -hiring manager
           \_ heh, when the economy turns around you'll be here begging for
              the ones who 'almost' graduated.  --less obnoxious hm
        \_ graduation, have yet to find a job, will be working on a
           research project part time this summer while looking for
           employment, and yes, I will be moving back home.  --darin
           \_ St. Louis?  Are there jobs there?
        \_ Most of the guys who interned in my group last summer have
           all found jobs. I'm trying to set the last few stragglers
           up before the end of the summer. They are all moving back
           home.
        \_ How does moving back home help you find a job?  To save money?
           Unless your parents live in San Jose, you're stting yourself up
           for a lifetime of shitty jobs and zero social life.
           \_ San Jose, wooohoo! Party! Why would you hold up San Jose
              as a good place for a social life?
                \_ i think he is implying there are decent jobs in the san
                   jose area
                   \_ Also, housing is so expensive, there's less social stigma
                      attached to living with your parents.
                \_ Because in SJ you might actually *get* *a* *job* unlike
                   living with your parents in BFE trying to get PC support
                   gigs at the local dentist and flower shop.  SJ is also
                   close enough to the rest of the BA that you can have any
                   social life you like and frankly with so many other laid
                   off people in the area, you'll have plenty of people to
                   hang out with.  What's *your* plan for where these kids
                   should hang out while job hunting and trying not to be
                   forgotten by life?
                   \_ Honestly? I think they are spoiled brats who should
                      learn to fend for themselves. There are plenty of
                      jobs out there, just not high-paying, cushy, high-
                      status jobs like these children of the upper middle
                      class believe is their birthright. Move to Las Vegas
                      if you want a job. I never hung to my mother's apron
                      strings after I left home at 17.
                      \_ Getting a low paying job now will cost hundreds of
                         thousands over the course of their careers....
                         \_ Not learning self-reliance costs much more.
2003/5/10-11 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:28400 Activity:very high
5/10    I just got this from my professor:
        "Unfortunately we do nothave the budget to support you for summer.
        I think working in industry is a great idea."
        Here is my question. How hard is it to get funding to support
        cheap grad students for a lousy short summer? Not that hard right?
        Is this his way of saying "hey you're not important, better find
        a new advisor?" I've worked my ass off for this guy doing TA and
        this is how he feels.           -pissed off grad student
        \_ this is their way ot either giving you the cold shoulder
           and saying they don't want you, or telling you that they
           suck at getting money.  Either way, it's time to move on.
        \_ this is their way of either giving you the cold shoulder
           and saying he doesn't want you, or telling you that he
           sucks at getting money.  Either way, it's time to move on.
           getting pissed and moving on may suck a little. being pissed
           all the time as you work for someone you don't get along with
           or who is a gimp-prof sucks alot more. -grad student
        \_ welcome to the real world. now go out and get a summer job.
                \_ the question is whether he should find a new advisor
                   who 1) has more funding and/or 2) is more eager to take
        \_ Obviously you have a close relationship with your advisor seeing
           as how he sent this "fuck you letter" by email.
                   him up as an advisee.
        \_ Many advisors give students this kind of message.  A majority of
           grad students I know work during the summers.  The ones that
           are at an important point in their research are usually the ones
           that want to stay and get funding from their advisors.  So
           unless you told your advisor that you really needed to have
           funding for this summer, I wouldn't take his comment personally.
           Also, due to the poor economy, many researchers I know are
           having trouble funding students during the year, let alone the
           summer.  By all means, make sure you end up working with a
           good advisor; just make sure you evaluate your situation
           correctly before jumping ship.  Good luck.  -emin
                \_ THANK YOU EMIN. I feel much better now.
           \_ I think that it's a bit late for this sort of thing, and it's
              really the sort of thing that I would expect to see discussed
              in a meeting. My advisor, at least, also strongly advises
              staying for one of the first two summers, though I'm sure
              that funding might influence this for some people.
              - chialea
        \_  Whining deleted.  If you delete responses you your whining,
            your whining will get deleted.
        \_ ask nick about his recent experiences.
                \_ nick weaver, tell us about your recent experiences.
2003/4/30-5/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:28280 Activity:very high
4/30    I'm a 22 year old grad student and I still haven't gotten laid.
        What do you guys think about using phermones to increase your chance
        of getting laid? Are they scientifically proven to work? -ecchang
        \_ TA
                \_ TA for a CS class (full of men), great idea to get laid
                   with supressed desperate and ugly gay/homo guys. Got
                   better ideas?
                   \_ I'm sure you're qualified to TA the math course all
                      the bio majors take.  Be advised you can be thrown
                      out of the university for this, however.
        \_ You don't need pheremones. You need $100 and the address of
           a good whorehouse.
        \_ start by going to http://yachachi.com
        \_ start in Nevada, or stop taking motd advice, ditch the computer,
           start breathing fresh air, develop some social skills, score a
           date, and then the violins will start playing.
2003/3/7-8 [Reference/Tax, Academia/GradSchool] UID:27622 Activity:very high
3/7     I'm making $66,000/yr writing code.  Should I be pissed at what I'm
        making or should I be happy to have a job? (6yrs out of school)
        \_ Where do you live? If it's in an expensive place (SF, LA, NY,
           or the like) then you should be pissed if what you're writing
           is any good. --dim
           \_ i'm in reno, so there's a little less state tax to pay.
              also, I'm doing more product maintenance work - work no one
              at the company wants to do and they're hard pressed to find
              qualified programmers in reno to do
              \_ not just taxes, real estate is dirt cheap there. i would
                 consider going there but i work for hw companies and
                 they are concentrated in SV, NY, and Dallas.
        \_ What's a good salary for a 2002 grad writing code?
           \_ I'm making $65K living in NYC... and slightly unhappy
              because its so expensive out here... but also not too happy
              with what I'm writing, and also happy to have a job.
              \_ I remember Patterson telling us in 61c that the average
                 Cal CS guy got about $50-55K.  I'm getting $62 (LA) but I
                 don't know what to think about it.
                 \_ when did he say that? ... that estimate seems low
        \_ I'm making less than that, but I'm just happy to have a job.
           -geordan
                \_ me too, and i like my job.
        \_ 95k for software eng, 7 yrs exp.
        \_ my friend just got a job in SF for $83k, 1 yr post MS exp. ymmv.
           of course, a masters from Cal is probably worth > 2yrs exp.
           \_ In your dreams.  It's all about experience.  Maybe at some
              university or government lab an MS counts.  The dotcoms proved
              that a degree with no experience makes you a good burger flipper.
        \_ I get paid $200/hr for picking my butt over the VPs desk.
           I am so smooth that the CFO brings "me" coffee.
           I am so elite that companies beg to offer me options.
           \_ wut about h07 42n ch1x?
              \_ And don't even let me get started on the babes...
                 \_ They beg to offer you options?  You are so stupid that
                    companies get away with paying you in slips of paper of
                    any kind other than the green variety?
        \_ i'm making 55k, graduated in 2001, live in orange county.
        \_ 120k.  hate job with passion.  sometimes i wonder if my life would
           be better working at a place without assholes for less money.  any
           of you work at places you *enjoy* working at?
           \_ what do you hate about your job exactly?
           \_ I'm rather happy with my job, but again, I don't get paid
              that much. -geordan
2002/10/23-24 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:26300 Activity:very high
10/23   How much sleep do grad students get?
        \_ I get more than I did as an undergrad, but I also work harder.
           You have more control over your schedule as a grad student and
           don't have to have deadlines all the time (i.e. for class projects).
                 -- Stanford PhD student
                \_ GEE I wonder who this is.
                   \_ Well, I doubt you have any idea, but you're welcome
                      to guess.   -- Stanford PhD student
                        \_ twohey is the only Farm student this year right?
        Yes, Cal only sent one single graduate student to all of Stanford_/
                                             this year. Are you on crack?
                           \_ they didn't say this year. I belive paul
                              signs his messages, anyways. -chialea
                        \_ There are plenty of others, like calbear.
  Doesn't he hold the record for most units taken in a semester? _/
  \_ How many did he take?  24?
                            \_ I thought it was 37.
        \_ I get less sleep than I did as an undergrad, but I didn't really
           DO much as an undergrad. This is hopefully temporary, I expect
           it to be. -chialea on paper deadline
        \_ I usually get more sleep than as an undergrad since I don't
           have to wake up for 8 o'clock classes anymore.  By the way,
           for those of you considering or starting grad school, I would
           recommend reading the book _Getting_What_You_Came_For_ by
           R. L. Peters.  The things to do to be successful for a grad
           student are different than for an undergraduate.  Read the
           book before you learn these differences the hard way. -emin
                \_ Any difference between MS vs PhD?
2002/10/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:26235 Activity:nil
10/17   I'm an ugrad and I wanna do research so that I can get into grad
        school. Is Carlo Sequin a good prof? Also isn't it odd that he started
        doing VLSI/circuit/etc and ended up as a graphx prof?
        \_ Multi-talented.
2018/06/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
6/22    

2002/10/15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:26180 Activity:nil
10/14   How many of you who plan to graduate this Fall or Spring have done
        anything about lining up a job if you're not going to grad school?
2002/10/1-2 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:26066 Activity:insanely high
9/30    I am interested in a masters in cs, focusing on algorithms or
        cryptography, and at stanford in particular. what do they look
        for in applicants for a program like this? thanks.
        \_ about $40,000 for an A per semester, $35,000 for a B
           \_ Except the rest of the world doesn't know that and mostly thinks
              Farm >> Cal, if they've even heard of Cal.
        \_ why not do this at Cal? Cal > Furd. Also ask chialea, she's doing
           cryptography and complexity shit.
           \_ b/c from what I know, it seems getting into furd is
              easier than getting into cal. is this true?
              \_ Cal has no serious master's program -- the graduate program
                 in the CS division is geared toward Ph.D.'s, and they only
                 accept applicants interested in getting an M.S. under rather
                 exceptional circumstances.
              \_ Furd MS vs Cal MS?
                 \_ yeah. do you know if that's true or not?
              \_ I applied to both 10 years ago, and I got accepted by Furd but
                 reject by Cal.  I got a job instead because I couldn't afford
                 the tuition.
                 \_ what a lame excuse. Ever heard of SITN or a loan?
                    \_ Not everyone qualifies for enough loans or other money.
                       Walk a mile in his shoes, kid.
                    \_ I applied to regular MS, not SITN, and when I called
                       Furd they said I couldn't switch to part-time.  Plus
                       my then-employer didn't sponser SITN.  It wasn't easy
                       for a foreign student to find a job in the 1993 economy.
                       A loan wouldn't work since I had to actually make money
                       to pay for the out-of-state tuition for my sister who
                       was still in school.
        \_ From what I hear, though I haven't been to Stanford, Standford
           Masters students are there to fund the PhD's. Crypto-wise, most
           schools don't offer many classes. Berkeley has 2, maybe 3-4,
           UCSD has a few, and CMU has a bunh. Are you looking to work with
           prof? Dan Boneh's at Stanford, Doug Tygar and David Wagner are at
           Berkeley, Russel Impalliazo (yeah, misspelling) and Mihir Bellare
           and Daniele Miccancio are at UCSD, there are a bunch at CMU, and
           MIT's are either in Isreal or on sabbatical, mostly. Theory-
           wise, I'd say Berkeley's better. However, I don't know how the
           Masters program works at either school, except for disparaging
           comments from certain Stanford students regarding the masters
           students. Sorry for the long response. Upshot is that Stanford
           is probably not the place to go unless you want a "I paid for
           this" MS, and not to really do crypto. Email me if you have any
           questions I can help with. -chialea
           \_ I took a crypto class from Silvio Micali at MIT and it was
              amazing.  MIT also has some other big names like Goldwasser
              and Rivest.  I would highly recommend crypto at MIT when
              people return from sabbaticals, etc. -emin
              \_ Word around town is that some of em won't be at all. -chialea
           \_ you bring up a good point. when applying to a school
              that doesn't require research for a masters, does it
              do any good to mention in your personal statement that
              you're interested in the work of so-and-so at the school?
              incidentally, I'm very interested in Boneh's work. -op.
              \_ I took one of Boneh's cryto classes (he teaches 3)
                 and it was a killer. The homework assignments were
                 long and dense and worth only 25%. The projects were
                 reasonable provided you had 3 weeks to code, but he
                 only gave 1-1/2 weeks for the first and 2 weeks for
                 the second which made it extremely hard. The final
                 was pretty funny, it was do #1 or do #2-4. #1 was
                 given a specific RSA n (or maybe it was a theta),
                 write down p and q. This question was worth an A+
                 in the class.
        \_ just curious, does Cal even have a MS program? I have never met a
           MS CS grad student in the 5 years I was at Cal. MS EE yes, but not
           MS CS. Cal grad students, care to comment?
           \_ I met one. Just one. He was a fellow TA for 61A -bz
           \_ nweaver and other Cal grad students (don't know their names),
                care to comment?                -1988 alum
                \_ 1988?! When/how did you get a Soda account? Who are you,
                   anyway?
                   \_ Soda accounts were being given out years before '88.
                      Why is that so shocking?  Just because you were still
                      figuring out how to ride a bike when '88 graduated?  -91
                      \_ Soda mark I appeared in '89, did it not? What were
                         the accounts on before Soda? -op
                         \_ csua had machines before soda.  trying to figure
                            out who 1988 is.  -89
                      \_ that's RIDE BIKE!!!! to you, buddy.
           \_ I knew one. He got in because the prof he worked with as a ugrad
              wanted him. Had <3.5 GPA. And I know several that left the PhD
              program once they got their masters.
           \_ I got an MS in CS from Cal a few years ago.
        \_ Stanford's MS programs are terminal and not meant to lead to a
           PhD. They don't have theses nor a thesis option. This is different
           than other top graduate programs. They are great for finishing a
           MS in a year, but expensive; but lots of MS students are sent by
           companies anyway, so it's less of an issue. The EE MS program is
           slightly different in that through a qualifying exam you can move
           to the PhD program, but most Stanford MS programs are like the MS
           with two tiers of admission: one for the PhD, one for the MS, with
           no (easy) way between them.
           For MSCS at Stanford you won't do any research. If you want to do
           research it's possible, but you should probably contact the
           professor in which you're interested and make sure that it is
           possible. It takes 5 quarters to finish a MSCS taking 3 classes/
           quarter with a half-time assistantship, and it certainly helps if
           you have experience in the area in which the professor is
           interested.         -- Stanford PhD student
2002/9/27-28 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:26026 Activity:very high
9/26    Just curious, who's an EE/CS grad student here? What is the average
                                                  \_ Do you mean on the motd
                                                     or at Cal?
        GRE subject score?
        \_ Me.  2310 general, 840 cs.
        \_ Me.  2310 general (q790 a800 v720), 840 cs.
                \_ who is this, paulos? nweaver?
                \_ what percentile is 840?
        \_ Me.  2280 general (q800 a800 v680), 900 cs.
                \_ how important are high gre scores for admission
                   to cal cs?
                   \_ their semi-official position is that once all your
                      general subscores are in ~90th percentile, and your
                      subj is in ~95th, they don't care (it can't affect
                      you positively to have anything higher than that). below
                      that, they'll notice, but it's likely to be a low
                      priority.
                        \_ I was not aware that they even look at your
                           verbal score. 1/2 of my TAs can't even speak
                           English
                        \_ and where did you get this info from?
                           \_ His ass.
                              \_ It was probably alexf.
                      \_ Newton, who is nice dean or something or other, told
                         me this. -!op
                         \_ I like him but never thought of him as "nice".
                        \_ Newton+nice??? I was his reader, he was not very
                           nice. He only talked to the head TA. He didn't
                           even know the other TA's names and he didn't seem
                           to care. He just wanted to get it over with (150).
2002/9/23-24 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:25980 Activity:high
9/23    You're applying for your second PhD in B-school.  It's mostly
        because you didn't find a permanent job after two post docs in
        your first field of choice.  You think the PhD in org. management
        is really interesting (no joke) and plus it might make you more
        marketable than you currently are.  Is there any decent way to
        answer direct questions about 'why are you changing fields'
        without sounding like a total loser?  ps - he thinks with his
        past work he is pretty competetive despite his failure to land
        a job in his prev field.  flame away and pls email if you wish,
        thanks very much in advance for your advice, motdgods --hahnak
        \_ why are you going for a PhD, as opposed to something less
           time-consuming (and perhaps just as marketable) such as
           an MBA?
           \_ because he *likes* research.  and bc he wants to stay
              in research (academia -> professorship if all goes well)
              hope this helps...
        \_ my response depends on a PhD in what field. English literature?
           Medieval music? French? Electrical engineering?
           \_ his first was in physics this second one would be in
              org. management.  hope this helps
                \_ in that case my response to your first is WHAT ARE YOU
                        STUPID? You asked for it. My second response is
                        What are you, stupid?
                        \_ why do you even bother posting?
2002/9/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25860 Activity:high
9/9     How do i go about extending unemployment benefits?  Is it pretty much
        automatic.  Do I have to wait till i've gotten all my original benefits
        or should i apply before my first 6 months run out?
        \_ Apply before your benefits run out.
         \_ No, you have to wait till your benefits have run out before you
            apply for an extension.  Apply right after you get your final
            check.
        \_ Enter a field with lots of profitable long-term career
           opportunities, like systems administration.  -System Administrator
           \_ worked for me, but you seem bitter.  -SA
                \_ Not bitter, amused :)
                   \_ Oh. Nm then.
              \_ You extended your unemployment benefits by becoming a SA?
                 \_ Yeah something like that.  I get a check every other week
                    plus 16 days a year off.
2002/8/28 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25718 Activity:very high
8/28    Who are you?
        P=PhD, p=PhD in progress, M=MS, m=MS in progress, B=BS, b=BS in
        progress, N=Never graduated, .=unknown
        1. Bored alum @ work? .BBMBNB
        2. PhD student? ..
        3. Already have a PhD?
        4. Cal Undergrad?
        \_ Is that you Partha? Mr. "N"?
        \_ did tom ever graduate?
2002/8/27-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/GradSchool] UID:25704 Activity:high
8/27    What is up with the strike?
        \_ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/08/27/BA124694.DTL
        \_ Yeah, but what does FreeRepublic have to say about it?
        \_ I don't think the owners are going to make a deal with the players.
2002/8/20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25620 Activity:high
8/19    The post below got me wondering, what are the main things Cal
        looks for in grad school applicants? Can it be narrowed down
        to one (or more) factors? I'm interested in a cs masters
        specifically.
        \_ you will be eaten by a grue.
        \_ twohey, please reply.
        \_ Ten years ago I heard that CS grad school admission prefers
           applicants from other schools to those from Cal.
                \_ how closely do they look at the cs subject gre?
           \_ That's largely BS. I know people who wouldn't have had a chance
              to get in who got in because they knew a prof. nweaver, do you
              think you would have gotten in if you weren't at Cal for ugrad?
              Going to Cal for undergrad gives you the chance to do research
              as a ugrad, which can help you out, esp if your prof is on the
              komitee.
              \_ If you weren't kissing someone's ass for years as a ugrad
                 you won't get in.  If you were one of the faceless masses
                 who simply went to school and got good grades you're fucked.
                 Potstickers anyone?
                 \_ I dont think Brian Harvey has that much oomph in admissions.
                    He's a lecturer, not a research prof.  If you must kiss
                    ass, kiss the right ass at the very least.
                    \_ It's a general concept.  Don't over apply an example to
                       all cases.
2002/8/19-20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25614 Activity:very high
8/19    I looked at UCB's CS grad school application. There's a MS box that
        you can check. What's up with the discussion that assumes that there
        is no MS program?
        \_ because the ppl who post here are for the majority, sysadmins with
           maybe a bachelors.. in cog sci.
           \_ That's interdisciplinary studies to you, nerd boy.  And we earn
              a lot more than you ever will :-)  -John
           \_ Yes and the discussion a few days ago was about not having a
              special 1-yr MS program for EECS grads.  See
              ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v.
                \_ The discussion is about not having a UCB MS CS program,
                   and most posters assumed that non existed, period.
                   \_ work on your reading comprehension, dumbass.
           \_ At least us cogsci sysadmins can read and know how to spell those
              really long words like "people".  And I doubt you'd pass half the
              cogsci courses.  I took both cogsci and cs.  Some of the cogsci
              courses were much harder than anything I saw in cs.
                \_ I guess you were rejected from cs...
                   \_ Na, too busy getting laid and having fun in college
                      to bother thinking about it!
                   \_ No.  I never applied to CS.  I didn't like it.  Cogsci
                      was more interesting although my final gpa would've been
                      higher if I finished up in CS.
              \_ Maybe you were in the wrong major if you thought CogSci was
                 harder than CompSci.
                 \_ CS was boring.  Just lots of time.  Nothing particularly
                    intellectual about it.  Several Cogsci classes were quite
                    difficult.  It was possible to go through Cogsci and skip
                    over a lot of the harder classes which is probably what
                    your friends are doing but I didn't.  The harder classes
                    were the ones worth taking.  Since I had no grad school
                    plans my gpa didn't matter.  Thanks.
2002/8/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:25558 Activity:insanely high
8/14    Stanford, MIT, and pretty much all the other UCs have a 1 year MS
        program upon satisfactory completion of your EECS degree (and they
        don't even have to take the GRE). How come Berkeley has no such
        program?   -junior/senior now regretting coming to Berkeley
        \_ Because UCB doesn't give a shit about you at all and only 'teaches'
           undergraduate courses because they're required to by the state?
           \_ an MS program wouldn't involve undergraduate courses, twink. -tom
              \_ Tom, do you have a masters degree from UCB, Stanford, or MIT?
                 Do you have a masters degree at all?
              \_ Child, with your *B*A or *B*S you're _not_ a grad student and
                 they're not doing you any favors.  UCB would do *only* PhD
                 research if they were allowed.  MS would get fucked, too.
        \_ What? NOW you notice?
        \_ UCB sucks.  plain and simple.
                \_ you weren't forced to attend it asshole.
        \_ Because Cal doesn't bother running vending machine MS programs to
           make money.
                \_ all the other schools, 1st tier or 2nd tier do it. Why not
                   Cal? Are they not doing it for the principle? Bull shit.
                   I'm a Cal student and I want my fuckin' easy MS degree
                   just like all the others.
                   \_ schools like these have thus devalued the MS degree,
                      just like the slew of 2nd rate business schools like
                      pepperdine pumping out thousands of MBAs a year have
                      devalued all but the 5 top MBA schools. -bhc
                      \_ Which are the top 5?  Is Haas one of them?
                        \_ Haas isn't top 5 or even top 10. If all the other
                           schools devalue the BS/MS degree, then it is even
                           more important for Cal BS graduates to get an easy
                           MS degree. Cal SUCKS.
                           \_ you're a moron.
                              http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/mba/brief/mbarank_brief.php
                                \_ as i told the guy above, why'd you
                                   come then? were you not "smart"
                                   enough to get into 'furd or mit?
                                   \_ whether or not he's smart doesn't make
                                      Cal a better school.  If you were smart
                                      enough to get into MIT or Stanford you
                                      might know that instead of waving your
                                      GO BEAR! flag around blindly.
                                        \_ no. if cal is the best place
                                           you could get into, then you
                                           should be damn happy they
                                           even accepted you, lest you
                                           wanted to go to an even worse
                                           school.
                                           \_ I couldn't afford private school.
                                            _/
              untrue. You can keep telling it to yourself, though, if it makes
              you fell better.
                The point is that even the lesser schools have a MS program
        \_ besides, it's generally accepted in the outside world that a
           Cal BS is the equivalent of a 'furd MS. everybody knows it's
           easy to get a second rate, add-On MS from those schools.
           \_ I can't speak for CS, but in civil engineering, this is simply
              untrue. You'll do fine with a Cal degree, FWIW, but the Stanford
              kids take a fast track to the best stuff available. I never meet
              any because they tend to be two or more strata above where I
              and the rest of my state school fellows work. I'm not complaining
              about it. It was what I found when I got out to the real world.
           \_ Really?  You mean there's no point for a Cal CS grad to get the
              'furd MS degree?
           \_ that's what your Cal advisor would tell you.  They'd be wrong but
              thats what they'd tell you...
           \_ WRONG. A degree DOES mean something. It means a lot to stupid
              recruiters. It means a lot to the real world. It means a lot
              in the Silicon Valley-- "everyone has at least a MS in
              Silicon Valley"
           \_ As someone who actually has a bullshit vending machine MS degree
              in CS from 'furd, it totally does make a significant difference
              in the job market. Getting my MS at 'furd was the easiest year
              of school I ever had. Spent most of my time hanging out at Fry's
              and surfing pr0n. But it never fails to impress ppl when I tell
              them I went to Cal AND Stanfurd. I've gotten big bonuses and
              raises, have never been laid off. Made six-figs salary my 3rd
              year out of school. One time a recruiter rewrote my resume so
              that my education was at the very top. One of the best
              investments I ever made.
              \_ I was admitted to the full-time MSCS at 'furd nine years ago,
                 but I couldn't afford the tuition so I went to get a job
                 instead.  Now I'm thinking about the HCP part-time MS.  Do you
                 think having been admitted will give me an advantage when I
                 apply now?
           \_ a degree isn't important when the market is good. But when it
                sours and everyone who is competing for your job also has a
                Furd/MIT/Cal BS degree, who is going to get more notice from
                head hunters? A Cal BS guy with 10 years of experience or a
                Furd BS/MS guy with 10 years of experience? If I were a
                clueless headhunter, the answer would be obvious to me, and
                if I were a clued headhunter, I wouldn't be one in the first
                place.
2002/7/31-8/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25462 Activity:very high
7/31    How long does it take to prepare for the CS subject GRE? Is it
        something to study for, or is it like the regular GRE (which is
        just like the SAT's, maybe a litlte harder?)
        \_ No problem dude, I just figured I'd study while fucked up on my
           favorite halucinogenic and then take the same amount of the same
           thing about 45 minutes before the test starts and it'd be cool.
           I did fine.  I'm still waiting for my results though but I feel
           really good about it.
        \_ you can't really prepare for it. My score didn't change a bit
           after I studied for it. Your best bet is to take it when your
           mind is still young and fresh (don't take it when you've worked
           in the industry and/or you've become bitter about work).
                \_ what if you havne't taken the class for one of the
                   core subjects that are tested (specifically digital
                   design)? just read up on it or something?
                        \_ then take the class. You can't expect to study
                           150/170/172/174 in a few weeks and expect to know
                           everything. Breadth is very important on the GRE.
                           This is one reason why the Furds do better
                           than us (quarter system = technical breadth)
                           \_ No, they have better instructors who give a shit
                              if you learn something useful as opposed to their
                              cool new thing that might be useful in 10 years
                              if it catches on.
                              \_ No, it's because their students think for
                                 themselves.
                                 \_ That helps, too.  Pot stickers, anyone?
                                \_ no, Berkeley emphasizes on technical skills
                                   more than the Furds. That's why Cal
                                   graduates are more desired in Silicon
                                   Valley-- they're good at emacs/gdb/gcc/link
                                   scripting/unix/etc/etc. The Furds can't do
                                   jack at work. On the other hand the Furds
                                   take more variety of classes that help them
                                   do well on Standardized Tests. I know, I've
                                   been to both sides.
                \_ Dude you can totally study for it!  If your scores didn't
                   improve you used the wrong drugs!  Don't change drugs during
                   your study time!
2002/7/9-10 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25312 Activity:kinda low
7/8     I'm looking for a basic statistics textbook. Any recommendations?
         \_ what do you want to do with statistics?  this is almost certainly
            not what you're looking for, but if you want to know about
            random processes and noise, Davenport and Root is *the* book.
            it's a classic textbook which is now out of print, but can
            be found from the used dealers on Amazon.
            \_ I've been looking at the prerequisites for my classes next
               and they all seem to require some stat. Its been more than
               five years since I last needed any stat, so I want to get a
               text book and study over the summer.
        \_ Search Amazon for "How to lie with statistics"
           \_ I'm looking for a text book that I can study from over
              the summer.
        \_ Cartoon Guide to Statistics
         http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062731025/102-4032168-9896954
          \_ I concur. This was how I got myself started. It gets up to
             Bayesian analysis and does a good job explaining common
             statistical pitfalls. Note that it is geared more towards the
             statistical approaches in the social sciences than engineering
             statistics. -- ulysses
        \_ What level of stat book are you looking for?  eg. something for
           undergrads, like Stat 101, which would introduce the basic concepts,
           and not any theory, limiting you to the simple functions of a
           stat program like SPSS, SAS?  Or are you looking for an intro
           graduate stat book, eg. something that discusses statistical
           theory, and how the various tests are derived? -nivra
           \_ I'm looking for something a bit more advanced than Stat 101
              perhaps at a senior or first year ee masters level.
2002/6/6-7 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25021 Activity:high
6/6     Dear Grad Students (or future grad students), I got into a ~20th
        ranked school and I'm considering an appeal for the other schools
        that I didn't get in. While appeals work for undergrad (so I've
        heard), how effective is it to appeal for grad schools?
        \_ i know of a case for engineering grad school where calling
           up and being persistent got someone into a #8 school to
           which they had been rejected.
           it can't hurt; they already rejected you, right?
                \_ what school is #8?
        \_ MS or Ph.D?
        \_ I don't have an answer but I just want to ask if there are cases
           where PhD applicants were rejected but were offered MS candidacy?
           \_ I heard of at least one case that this is done.
                \_ what school?
        \_ Try being the big fish in the little pond
        \_ Try sucking cock better.
        \_ you have no skills?  get a job.
2002/6/6 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25007 Activity:nil 60%like:24034 75%like:24416
6/6     chialea what are you advice for applying to grad school?
                        -senior, got a job offer but planning to go back
        \_ Take e190.
2002/6/6 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:25005 Activity:kinda low 50%like:24416
6/5     pboynton, are you going to grad school too?  -- pboynton #1 fan
        \_ Oh god no. Not another of these. Please make it stop!
        \_ pantiesP
           \_ she doesn't wear any.
              \_ I'm sure she does.
                 \_ yes, but what color?
                    \_ light purple
2002/6/5 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24986 Activity:nil
6/3     chialea, did you write the Berkeley review? This sounds like you:
        http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195119002/qid=1023154635/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-4094441-3843861
        \_ Nah, doesn't sound like chialea. Doesn't talk about herself nearly
           enough, and is too concise and factual.
           \_ I think the dead giveaway is it doesn't have any
              variation of "bah!"
2002/5/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24855 Activity:nil
5/16    Seniors, you're graduating next week. You:
        have a job:
        are looking for a job:..
        are going to grad school:
        are stalking other graduates:
2002/5/14 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24822 Activity:nil 50%like:24779
5/13    ucla ee guy, did you get into USC? I applied to their PhD
        but was offered their MS program. I declined, how about you?
        \_ I got into MS. I didn't apply to PhD, mostly because a
           USC prof. who wrote me a letter of rec told me that it
           wasn't worth my time to do a PhD right now.
                \_ PhD is rarely financially sound. Having that
                   said I'm surprised that he gave you that advise.
                   Maybe he thinks that you're not a PhD material.
                   \_ Frankly I don't think I'm PhD material, but
                      some of my ex-bosses (Stanford Profs.) think
                      I could easily do it. Anyway, the USC prof.
                      advice was based on purely financial
                      considerations (I have some ISO options that
                      would lapse if I went on an extended loa which
                      would be required for a PhD but not a Masters).
           \_ so where are you going?
              \_ ucla
2002/5/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24818 Activity:low
5/14    I forgot, is there some special action that needs to be taken to
        have AP scores sent to colleges, or do they just get sent
        automatically? This is for a highschool friend of mine that
        wants help. Thanks.
        \_ I seem to recall that when you sign up for the test, you list the
           schools you're sending the score to, like the SAT.  But I'm not
           sure.
        \_ I was just looking into this for my sister... you should be able
           to find a pretty informative FAQ on the college board's AP website
           (or ETS or something) just google it. It had all the info about
           cancelling and sending scores, etc.
2002/5/3-5 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24693 Activity:moderate
5/2     If you have offer or rejection letters from any graduate
        schools, I would really appreciate it if you could mail me
        a copy of the text within the next day or two. I am collecting
        additional data for a term paper in linguistics.  Thanks.  -brg
        \_ Can I trust you that you'll publish your paper? I got a bunch of
           rejects, I am very depressed. How do I get them to you anonymously?
           \_ OCR baby!
              \_ Oral-Clitoral-Rectal baby!  Ooh, aah!
           \_ Post the text on Craigslist, m4m.
           \_ brg, touch a world writable file in /csua/tmp/rejects so that
              ppl can just paste it into there (anonymously).
        \_ brg, you're slow on my reply above, so I am not going to give any
           to you
        \_ I already did a paper like this, not for linguistics though.
           I merely wrote Universities, addressed specific depts and
           names explaining and asking. All replied, some negatively.
                \_ reportP
2002/5/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24663 Activity:high 66%like:24163 66%like:24416
5/1     Ok I know where chialea and alexf are going for grad school. What
        about the other guy (forgot his name)?
        \_ Where are YOU going? -stalker's stalker
        \_ Twohey?  ...What the information worth to you? -geordan
                \_ where's chialea going?
                                \_ To a judge for a restraining order!
                   \_ I'm going to CMU. -chialea
                   \_ Nebraska. -geordan
                      \_ Don't cloud the issue with facts. -geordan
        \_ Would all stalkers please go create your own geocities website and
           leave the motd alone?  Thanks!  I don't recall this end-of-the-year
           grad school motd stalking thing ever happening before.  What's wrong
           with this year's crop?
           \_ it's the combination of the economy, dot-com bust,
              and the explosion of grad school apps and rejects that
              is causing this.
              \_ I think they're referring to the stalking, not the actual
                 grad school discussion. -geordan
                 \_ that's what the above poster answered.  they are
                    justifying more screwballs going to grad school
                    than normal.  if the economy were not in the dumps,
                    they'd all be hanging out at some strip club in
                    the south bay squandering their dotcom paycheck, but
                    instead their applying to grad school and stalking.
                    \_ I didn't see any stalkers in the dotcom world.  -dc-guy
                       \_ if you have money for whores and strippers, you
                          don't stalk grad students. that was my point.
                    \_ I never thought of it that way.
                       That's deeply, deeply sad.  Moreso than it is
                       already. -geordan
                       \_ no sadder than any other major in college.
                          watch Fight Club if you want to understand
                          what's really going on inside the average
                          american male college grad.
        \_ on a related question. If you're on the waiting list, or if they
           asked you if you're interested in their MS program, then does that
           mean if the actual PhD candidates somehow disappears you'll move
           up in the list?
2002/5/1 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:24651 Activity:nil
4/30    Ok, the job market in the computer industry is in the dumps.
        Everybody knows that.  How about for CS or EE PhDs?  Any colleges
        or big companies hiring?  thanks.
        \_ job_market(Bachelor) >> job_market(PhD), in any job conditions.
           \_ why do you say that?  What about PhDs who become managers
                or Sr. Software Engineers?
                \_ PhDs have greater salary requirements.  Doors definitely
                   close for PhDs, though some new ones open.  There is a PhD
                   glut in this country.  Getting a PhD to improve your
                   career is not a wise choice.
                   \_ I worked with a PhD guy at one company who was very
                      good at theory but knew jack all about coding.  Even
                      though I was IT Manager and never coded professionally
                      and *never* wrote anything in Java, I had to read and
                      explain java threading to him and help him redesign his
                      code.  We all got laid off shortly after that, thank god.
                      \_ Not all PhD programs emphasize coding. Depends on the
                         discipline really.
                         \_ It was 2nd year undergrad level work.  Would it be
                            fair to assume he got his BA before his Phd?
        \_ as with anything in life your likelyhood of getting a job decreases
           when you have more degrees. For example if you work at a McD
           store you could probably work anywhere you want. But if you have
           a PhD in AstroBiologyPhysicalAbstruceShit then there are only
           a few places that you can work at. The moral of the story is to
           simply do what you enjoy, you'll somehow survive anyhow.
           \_ Sometimes people will also not consider you because they think
              you'll be bored and look elsewhere when you get the chance.
2002/4/30 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24640 Activity:high
4/29    If Paul Twohey and Alex Fabrikant are so smart where are they going
        for grad school?
        \_ Wow, I have a stalker now, too! Wheeee! -alexf (who is staying at
           berkeley for grad school)
           \_ Yeah, but you have to share your stalker with twohey.  For
              what that's worth. -geordan
              \_ Doh! -alexf
2002/4/29 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24626 Activity:high
4/29    csua members Lea Kissner, Paul Twohey, and Alex Fabrikant will get
        awards at the 2002 CS Awards ceremony. 4pm, 306 Soda Hall, May 7.
        (sorry if I missed anyone)
        \_ For?
           \_ Schmoozing well?
              \_ Pretty much. <shrug> -alexf
              \_ I see some things never change.  -alum
        \_ even with the kissup, Lea still can't make it to Berkeley's grad
           school. What does that say about the quality of Berkeley undergrad
           these days?
           \_ I thought it had more to do with everyone and their cousin
              applying for grad school this year.
              applying for grad school this year. -geordan
                \_ insufficient ass kissing.
                \_ shut up, Lea.
                   \_ Fine.  Make me sign my posts consistently. -geordan
           \_ Uh, dude, Lea >> most of the grad students I've met at Berkeley,
              and if you don't believe anon-hozers on the motd, ask David
              Wagner. - !lea, !geordan
                \_ If Lea >> most Cal grad students and Lea != get into Cal
                   then either a) you're wrong about Lea, b) you're wrong about
                   the grad students you met (similar to a for our purposes)
                   or c) there's another criteria you're not considering for
                   getting into Cal's grad program.  Your call.
                   \_ Uh, that would be c).  Other criteria being a) Most Cal
                      grad students I've met were admitted under much less
                      competitive conditions.  Namely, most current Cal grad
                      students admitted under "Please come to grad school
                      instead of running off to start a dot com!" climate as
                      opposed to current "Please let me into grad school
                      instead of making me face the cold hard financial
                      realities of the post bubble job market!" and b) Lea
                      doesn't suck up.  She's just smart.  I could see how
                      this would work against someone in the Cal admissions
                      process.  I can go on if you like, but I think I've
                      made my point clear.
                      P.S. Hi Ilyas!
2002/4/11 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24416 Activity:nil 66%like:24146 66%like:24663 50%like:25005 75%like:25007
4/10    Chialea, where are you going for grad school?
        \_ I have it on reliable authority that Lea's going to UCSB.
           \_ You should kick your authority's ass.
              \_ My authority has no ass.
        \_ This is starting to really weird me out.
        \_ Where are you going?  I want to be near you always
           -chialea #1 fan #1 fan
           \_ Hi chialea.
              \_ *bzzzt!* Try again -chialea #1 fan #1 fan
        \_ come on, I already sent in my SIR (statement of intent to register)
           there is no way I can follow you now
           \_ That's what they all say.  And who are you replying to,
              exactly? -geordan
2002/4/11 [Industry/Jobs, Academia/GradSchool] UID:24409 Activity:nil
4/10    By far the most important component of an application is
        extremely strong recommendation letters from respected
        faculty that rank an applicant in the top 1-5%.

        Again, we are sorry you were not accepted, but this year was a
        particularly difficult one to gain entrance into our program.

        We wish you all the success in the future.
        CS Graduate Admissions
        Stanford University
        \_ That's an interesting point.  Thanks for that.
           I hear this year, getting into grad school (the better ones)
           is much more competitive than before.
        \_ phd or ms?
           \_ I think both, a lot of students graduating this year
              choose higher education over the job market (what job
              market?).
2002/4/11 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24407 Activity:moderate
4/10    They say that undergrad GPA is harder to maintain than grad GPA.
        How true is that?       -undergrad
        \_ in physics, only an idiot cares about his gpa in grad
           school, although
           A's are easy to get. i guess you probably mean CS though.
        \_ depends on the class.  Tygar is teaching his ecommerce class
           undergrad classes are typically C-centered.
           again next semester.  I took that and wrote 1 paper and got
           4 units of an A (cs 295-7)
        \_ I heard grad classes are typically B-centered while I guess
           undergrad classes are typically C-centered.  - 1337d00d
           \_ True, but I have a friend who went to MIT for ugrad and got in
              for grad. He did well in ugrad, but says he never got an A in
              a grad course because everyone there was too intense. I have a
              friend who says similar things about Berkeley (he only got A's
              in his field of study). These were MS students, not PhD.
              \_ isn't it also true that if you can't pull A's as a grad
                 student they "ask you to leave"?  or is it just that if
                 you're going for a PhD, they ask you to bow out with a
                 MS?            - 1337d00d
                 \_ What you said. They give you the MS and show you the door.
                 \_ This I've never heard. At least at CMU they say you're
                    working too much on classes and not enough on research if
                    you're getting A's. -chialea
                    \_ At Cal, grad students need to maintain a 3.0. A 4.0
                       is not expected. B's are fine. What is not fine is
                       too many C's (even balanced by A's). I suspect most
                       grad students have somewhere around 3.5+ but to say
                       that you *must* pull A's is ridiculous. --dim
                       \_ Cal EECS Ph.D. requires >=3.5 gpa in your "major"
                          area. -alexf
        \_ gpa is for pansies.  You think Einstein obsessed over his gpa?  Or
           any of the other great thinkers and scientists of this century?
2002/4/8-9 [Academia/GradSchool, Academia/UCLA] UID:24370 Activity:nil
4/8     In Stanford, there is a clause that says something like "if you get
        into the MS program, you will not be able to apply to our PhD
        program." Is there such a clause in UCLA?
2002/4/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:24348 Activity:moderate
4/5     i2's fucked: http://news.com.com/2100-1017-877222.html
        \_ The CEO & President of the last dotcom I was at were both from i2.
           If they're typical i2 employees, then no shit i2 is fucked.
2002/3/21-22 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24177 Activity:high
3/20    (For whatever its worth to ask the motd...) What do people think about
        when/if the huge surge in grad school app's will die down?
        \_ Me thinks when the economy starts to heat up again and many people
           start thinking that grad schools are for wussies. Think 1999-2000;
           I don't know anyone who didn't laugh at the idea of going back to
           school vs. making cold hard cash (or stock options) in the real
           world. Watch for the "next big hype" to hit and this is when you
           really want to go to grad school since there should be less compe-
           tition then and folks learning their lessons that hype doesn't
           last long and that real talent is what counts. -- jthoms (thinking
           'bout grad school too from time to time)
           \_ Guess what, I think you REALLY should laugh at those went to
              to grad school in 1999-2000.  Because now is about time when
              they get out, and guess what, they can't find a job.
                        -- somone went go get a MS in 1999 and jobless now
              \_ ha ha! -- jobless who did not get a MS but has one (1)
                           interview lined up for some startup that's
                           bound to lay me off in a year like all the rest.
                \_ that is, if they even give you an offer -- cynical
2002/3/20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24166 Activity:nil
3/19    To the person who applied to the Stanford Phd and got a MSCS
        rejection, what was were you GPA+GRE scores?
        \_ the point is that I didn't apply, so they may have just sent out
           rejections to everyone who didn't get admitted to MSCS -- including
           those who didn't apply. GPA: 3.56, GRE: 790 math, 740 anal, 700 eng
           Not great or anything, but I have a good chunk of publications
           and research exp, which is why I was admitted to PhD programs.
           \_ So you got admitted to Stanford's PhD program, or you just
              got admitted to PhD programs in general?
              \_ Not Stanford's, but other Big 4.
                \_ uh, I'm ignorant, what are the big 4? Cal, MIT, Caltech,
                   etc?
                   \_ Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, CMU. I got into CMU.
2002/3/20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24163 Activity:kinda low 66%like:24663
3/19    Alexf, where are you going for grad school?
        \_ Vista: .
2002/3/19 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24154 Activity:kinda low
3/18    For those going to grad skool, did you take the subject gre?
        Didn't take the Subject GRE: .
        Took Subject GRE, going to a
        skool that required it: .
        Took Subject GRE, but going
        to a skool that didn't need it: .
        Going to Vista: .
2002/3/18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24146 Activity:very high 66%like:24416
3/17    Chialea, which grad schools are you considering going?
        \_why do you give a damn?
          \_ wow..  who pissed in your cheerios?
                \_ I agree with whoever wrote that. wtf doesn't this
                   guy email chialea personally?
        \_ Why do you care (again)?
           \_ Stalkers... gotta love 'em!
              \_ Is Chialea the most fantastic woman to ever grave the planet
                 or what?  --no clue who Chialea is
2002/3/18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24145 Activity:high
3/17    alexf, who'd you take e190 with?  Maybe that would clear up some
        confusion.  I thought e190 (w/ Phillipi) was one of the best courses
        I've taken here.
        \_ He has Nevader, IIRC. I have Phillipe, and he's annoying as all
           get out. Entertaining in class, sure, but I just spent several
           hours (HOURS!) doing typesetting for the midterm paper. A little
           much, yes? -chialea
           \_ are you using LaTeX or something? I don't remember spending a
              significant amount of time typesetting. I just used MS Word.
        \_ Nevader. Who is a reasonably pleasant person to talk to, but an
           utterly incompetent fool insofar as my impression of his teaching
           goes. -alexf
           \_ Maybe your english is good enough where e190 won't help you so
              much.
                \_ If that was really alexf writing that reply then he could
                   use e190 or something.  That was horrible writing.
2002/3/6-7 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24034 Activity:moderate 60%like:25007
3/5     How many are applying to grad school because of the sucky market?
        \_ how many are paying your mom?
                               \_ Sigh. That's yermom. Kids these days....
        \_ bad people in industry! stay! stay! -bitter graduating senior
           \_ Someone take your NCG self up the ass?
2002/3/6 [Academia/StanfUrd, Academia/GradSchool] UID:24032 Activity:nil
3/6     speaking of grad school... how does the stanford HCP work?
        what does it take to get in? do the companies in their SCPD
        program generally pay for all your tuition?
        \_ What does Stanford HCP have to do with graduate school?
           \_ you can do a masters or phd at the farm via hcp.
        \_ Supposedly, you apply just like any other student.  So
           the odds should be about the same.  It may help that your
           company is sponsoring.  Some companies, don't pay a cent.
           Some have a limit, like $6000 a year, so you may have to
           pay the rest out of your pocket.
           \_ if your odds are the same as any other student, I guess
              my 2nd question turns into 'what does it take to get into
              the MS program at stanford? (in terms of grades, gre, etc
              \_ The odds are better than a standard student. In terms
                 of grades, min 3.0, prefered 3.5 or higher. General GRE
                 math/anal 750-800, english 650+. Subject not required
                 for most majors. It really helps to have a stanford prof.
                 recommend you, or someone famous in your proposed field.
                 Also helps if you have a direct relative who is a alum.
        \_ Cisco and Sun pay all of the tuition and books. Intel will
           reimburse you as long as you provide a official grade report
           showing that you got a B or higher.
2002/3/5-6 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24028 Activity:high
3/5     How are May grads doing on their job searches?
        \_ sadly.               - may grad.
        \_ sadly.               - may grad.
        \_ Great! - May 2000 grad.
        \_ Grad schools ho! - May 1999 grad.
           \_ Moi aussi! - May 97 grad
              \_ Moi trois. - May 02 grad.
           \_ Hoes ho!
        \_ jobs are suck.    -may 1998 grad.
           \_ My job search is going great! I can hire people at $8/hr!
2002/3/2 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:24013 Activity:very high
3/1     I just got my UCB rejection from my dear ol Alex Aiken. Did anyone
        else get a rejection/acceptance?
        \_ I got into EE @ UCLA!
           \_ UCLA is not a real school. :(
              \_ what's wrong with ucla?
                 \_ http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/bcrank.htm
                    \_ These same stupid rankings say that Notre Dame is
                       a better school than Cal. --dim
                        \_ The undergrad rankings are pretty much bunk--
                           they're heavily weighted towards private schools,
                           because they measure things like endowment per
                           student and alumni giving per student.  But the
                           grad rankings are a lot closer to the way graduate
                           programs are actually rated.  Which is why Cal is
                           #1 overall in grad rankings.  -tom
                           \_ hey tom, i wasn't aware you went to grad school
                              at cal.  I wasn't aware you had an authority to
                              judge the cal grad (or even undergrad) learning
                              environment.  Maybe you should get enrolled 1st.
                              \_ Gee, is US News enrolled at Cal?  -tom
                              \_ tom would need to graduate before he enrolls.
                                 \_ He didn't graduate?
                    \_ Do you actually believe that U Mich, UIUC and
                       Georgia Tech are a better schools than Cal Tech?
                       They've got UT Austin (a joke school) above USC
                       (the home of the ISI) and Princeton.
                       They've also got LA (tied with SB) and below SD,
                       which is obviously wrong.
                       \_ Texas has a fantastic aerospace engineering program.
                          That is the only field in which I have run across
                          Texas undergrads and PhDs, though. All of them very
                          bright.  --dim
                          \_ With one exception, every CS/EE grad I've met
                             from UT Austin was exceptionally bad. These
                             people couldn't code a html web page, let alone
                             command: "I didn't know computers could do that."
                             understand theory and design.
                             One particularly exceptional MS CS grad from UT
                             Austin had this to say when shown the 'grep'
                             command on a sun: "I didn't know computers could
                             do that, regular computers [non-sun] can't do
                             that can they?" (He graduated circa 98-99)
                             Most of the others weren't much better (I've
                             worked with/interviewed dozens). The only
                             exception was a friend of mine who went back to
                             school after being a sysadmin for 8 years (2 yrs
                             at IBM, 6 at Nasa Ames).
                             I'm not sure about Aerospace, but thier MS CS/EE
                             program sucks (unless you want to learn vbscript
                             and m$ access)
                             \_ Maybe... can I get my MCSE?
           \_ hey I applied as well and haven't gotten a letter. When did you
              get your acceptance?
              \_ 2 weeks ago
              \_ I recieved my acceptance letter today.
                 \_ arrrrrrrrrrg I am crushed (still haven't gotten anything)
                    \_ YOU are crushed?  _YOU_ are crushed!?
                       \_ must be one of those who are easily crushed.
                    \_ I've only recieved la. I'm still waiting for
                       usc, cornell and sd. There is still plenty of
                       time. Start worrying after April 15 (except
                       for usc, they are sometime in june)
                \_ rejection from ucb and cmu this week
        \_ Zero rejections.  Zero applications.  Got job, own home.  Happy.
2002/2/12 [Academia/GradSchool, Science/Physics] UID:23839 Activity:very high
2/11    What is the $ of a typical grad school and how much TA/RA money does
        one expect to get relative to the tuition and the cost of living?
                                -still waiting for grad schools to reply
        \_ in physics it's full tuition paid plus from 16 to 21 thousand a year
           stipend.
           \_ Because we need future weapon designers.
              \_ yeah, i belive there are three reasons: we built the bomb
                 and there is not enough money in physics to justify
                 students taking large debt in school and we provicde
                 comparitivly cheap labor.  fourty grand total a year including
                 tuition is still pretty cheap for what we do. and yes,
                 we design military technology of tomorow.
                 \_ a pacifist physics phd friend of mine thinks shes working
                    on detection equipment for nuclear treaty compliance of
                    some sort but it sounded like a better use was sticking it
                    on an interceptor so it can differentiate between real
                    and dummy/fake warheads....  I didn't break it to her.  She
                    seemed so happy thinking she was using physics for peace.
        \_ I dunno about other schools.  If you've got a TA or RA full-time
           position, you're going to get half/full ride on fees, +
           about 18k to maintain yourself.  This is in EECS/Berkeley.
           Half ride for a TA, full for an RA, and half ride leaves about 2k
           per semester in fees.  --PeterM
           \_ What's a "full-time TA/RA"? 20 hr/wk? 40 hr/wk? -alexf
              \_ Nominally 20 hr/wk.  However, some TA jobs are quite
                 a lot heavier.  If you TA, pick your assignment carefully.
                 Half-time is 10hr/wk.  --PeterM
        \_ did you apply for any fellowships? those pay tuition+books+
           somewhere around 20k a year, for about three years, on average...
           -chialea
                \_ no, I did not apply to any because both of my GPA and GRE
                   are lower than yours. I don't think that I'll qualify
                        \_ You never know what fellowship might apply.
                           There might be a fellowship targeted at anonymous
                           motd stalkers!  --PeterM
2002/2/2 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23753 Activity:moderate
2/1     GRE analytical is going away this year!!! Is the new replacement
        easier/harder?
        \_ sourceP
           \_ http://www.cgsnet.org/HotTopics/GREchanges.htm
              Isn't google great?  I wish you would learn to use it.
                \_ thx. My concern is GRE is already $100 even though it's
                   a highly automated test. With the writing test, how much
                   is it going to cost us poor students?
        \_ I've also heard that they will be introducing a writing section
           (where one must actually write an essay)... anyone know if this
           is true?
           \_ Are you sure you're not thinking about the PSAT (which did this
              circa '98 or '99)?
              \_ I've definately heard rumors of this being introduced to
                 the GRE... though I've heard nothing to substantiate this.
2002/1/17 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23585 Activity:kinda low
1/16    Whatever happened to the poor souls who got their degrees at the now
        defunct Args Digita University? Are they able to make it to M.S.
        and/or Phd programs?
        \_ http://aduni.org/~abangert/adu/pg4ever.jpg
2002/1/10 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23518 Activity:nil 50%like:21840
1/9     nweaver, what's the best way to learn Dvorak?
        Also, does it help you get into grad school?
        \_ if it helps get one into grad school, count me in too -chialea
2002/1/8-9 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/Theory] UID:23497 Activity:very high
1/8     I am interested in handwriting recognition.  In particular,
        Chinese handwriting recognition.  What are the relevant CS/EE fields?
        What is a good grad school to go to for such things?
                - person who finally found out what he is interested in, but
                  don't have much idea on how to pursue his interest.
        \_ AI.
           Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, CMU, UCLA, UIUC, UW, etc.
        \_ Machine Learning and AI.  -- CMU, Cornell, Berkeley, MIT, ...
           Here's a link to code which recognizes faces (which is similar
           to recognizing handwriting):
        http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/mitchell/ftp/faces.html
           \_ Thanks, what about some tier two schools?  Are they worth
              going?  Or should I just find a job at the companies that
              are implementing these things.
              \_ Gradschool or not depends on where your interest lies.
                 If you want to work on developing algorithms on handwriting
                 recognition, then you should go to grad school (in machine
                 learning).  If you're more interested in the engineering
                 and implementation aspect of the product, then work for
                 a company.  Somewhere in between --> work as a developer
                 at a research lab.  If you decide to go to grad school, then
                 first find a research AREA you're interested in.  Going in
                 with a specific application in mind is not really good,
                 because 1) your interests will change, and 2) you may not
                 find a professor who's interested in EXACTLY the same
                 application.  I would suggest you start by reading some
                 papers on handwriting recognition, and look at the homepages
                 of people who do ML, and pick your favorite people.  Then
                 write those people a nice email and demonstrate you know
                 what you're talking about.  If you still have a couple of
                 years to kill at Berkeley, then start by doing some research
                 in the area.  I don't know why I'm even writing all this
                 down.  You're probably not even going to read this far.
                 -- alice
                 \_ Thanks!  That helps!  You are a very nice person.
                    I think I am interested in the engineering and
                    implementation aspect.  Does that rule out grad
                    school or can it still be useful?
                    \_ In that case, check out http://www.synaptics.com  Apparently
                       they make (made) chinese handwriting recognition
                       products, according to John Platt's homepage.
                       http://research.microsoft.com/~jplatt
                       John, perhaps known in this crowd as the inventor of
                       ClearType, is smart and a nice guy.  He may even answer
                       general inquiries from random people about about
                       Synaptics and handwriting recognition.  And please,
                       don't call me nice.  It gives people the wrong
                       impression.  -- alice
                    implementation aspect.  Does that rule out grad school
                    or can it still be useful?
                    \_ If you have further questions, be VERY nice and send
                       her an email. She might respond. Sending personal email
                       reduces the chance that you're just trolling or
                       interested in the hypothetical
                   \_ why not a Master's where you concentrate on learning
                      AI, and machine learning ideas, and maybe work on
                      a project on machine learning, then go to industry
                      afterwards?  Another option is to take classes at
                      Stanford's SITN (if they have those courses there)
                      while working.
        \_ Study Dvorak instead.
        \_ Japanese Handwriting recognition demo:
                http://ai.bpa.arizona.edu/go/mlir/japanesehandwriting.html
2001/12/18-19 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23295 Activity:very high
12/18   is 68% (770 score) good, bad, or ugly for a CS subj GRE score?
        - wants to know if she should take it again.
        \_ Bad.
        \_ Forget your score.  They look at percentile.  32% are better
           than you are.  Is that good enough for you?  It isn't good enough
           to get into a top school if that's what you want.  Maybe if your
           dad bought someone a building.
           \_ what tier school will that get me in?
        \_ Is the score out of 800?
           \_ no. I don't know what it's out of, but I got >800. it's also
              < 900, according to the papers the GRE people send you.
           \_ what tier school do you think will take me?
              \_ I think you can get into a 2nd tier school; they'll take
                 anyone.
                 \_ No.  Correction.  They'll take anyone who can pay.
                    \_ You are confusing 2nd tier with 3rd tier.
                        \_ You think 2nd tier has standards??
        \_ wait a minute... you're saying that you scored 770/800 and that
           is 68th percentile?? That is incredible.
           \_ 770/990.
        \_ wait a minute, I took it in 1998 and got a 700/990, but my
           percentile was 75% (I got discouraged and didn't apply to any
           school). How come you have a 770 with a lower percentile?
           \_ Obviously people who took it in 98 were a lot dumber, such
              as yourself.
           \_ I took it with twohey, chialea, brg, ilyas... 'nuff said.
              \_ uhh. like this is really going to affect your percentile.
                 \_ has it been so long since you've taken a CS theory
                    class that you don't remember what "..." means?
                    \_ ok... what exactly is your point?    - !jwang
                       \_ my point, jwang, is that the rest of the people
                          who took that test were at least of their caliber
                          since i saw basically the rest of HKN and other
                          random smart people there too.
                          \_ And no HKN people took the test in 98??  98 was
                             set aside for dummy testing?
                                \_ I think at this point we can safely
                                   conclude that the poster belonged in the
                                   lower 68%-ile.
                                   \_ Really?  You sure?  Doesn't HKN showing
                                      up in 2001 and not 1998 make it different
                                      somehow?
        \_ help me understand this better. Is "percentile" relative to
           everyone else who took the test on the same day, or relative to
           past X year's average?
           \_ Percentile is relative to everyone else who took the same test.
              Presumably, ETS (or whoever it is tha administers the GRE) does
              not use the same test more than once, and, if that's the case,
              then it's relative to everyone who took the test on the same
              day. -dans
2001/12/11-12 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23206 Activity:high
12/7    Chialea, what are you gonna put on the GRE Subject entry? Are you just
        gonna leave it blank? I took the subject on Nov but wouldn't find out
        my score till 12/26, by then most of the applications are already due!
        \_ I put my score... I took it in april. it sucked, but I'm not
           likely to do much better, given the tiny problem that I haven't
           taken most of the classes it's based on. -chialea
                \_ what classes didn't you take that would've helped?
                   \_ 150,152,162,184,186. I got theory, I got music.
                      -chialea
                                           \_ Who could ask for anything more?
                                              \_ How about rhythm, dumbass?
                                                 \_ luckily I have that too,
                                                    I'm not twohey. -chialea
                                                 \_ Here's a nickel, go buy
                                                    yourself a sense of humor.
                                           \_ "I got my [gal|guy]. Who could
                                              ask for anything more?"
                        \_ eh? you got music?
                           \_ indeed. -chialea
                           \_ since when did CS GRE care about music theory?
                              \_ they don't. pity. -chialea
                        \_ you don't really need 184 (only 1-2 questions
                           on linear algebra/matrices). But the other ones
                           are kind of important.
                           \_ yes. yes they are. hopefully the grad schools
                              understand that specialists do good research :P
                              (I've been so told) -chialea
                                \_ will you have my babies?
                                  \_ Humans aren't interfertile with the
                                     likes of you.
        \_ heaven forbid you mail her instead of professing your love for
           her on the motd.
                \_ I don't want her to find out who I am. I'm that no name,
                   faceless coward who took a lot of the class upper div
                   classes with her.
                    \_ Er, how sweet. Yeek.
                    \_ A Geek Stalker.  How novel... or maybe not.
2001/12/6-7 [Finance/Banking, Academia/GradSchool] UID:23163 Activity:low
12/5    Regarding grad school TAship/RAship applications: it asks you how
        much $ you anticipate to make, how much financial aide you expect
        to get and the amount in your checking/savings account. What number
        are they looking for so that I can be eligible? Thanks.
        \_ In my experience, it depends on the cost of living where your
           school of choice is located. It also depends a bit on the
           school how much buy-in (as it were) they require.
2001/11/28 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23124 Activity:high
11/27   Let's say you're applying to a grad school with an emphasis in
        complexity theory and would perhaps like to work with Professor Z.
        Will the admission committee actually forward your application to
        Professor Z (who may look at your entire application), or will the
        admission committee determine everything?
        \_Professor Z doesn't teach complexity theory anymore.
        \_ this question is too complex
        \_ call prof Z, try to set up a meeting and talk to him/her in
           person if you can.
           person if you can.  If you don't get along with the prof, better
           to find out now and not bother going there than apply, get in,
           start work for prof Z, and be totally miserable.  if you *do*
           get along, they will certainly help you to get in. either
           way, there is nothing to loose and everything to gain from
           trying to talk to the target prof as early as possible.-grad student
        \_ Dude, you're getting a Dell.
        \_ Little-informed guess would say that if Professor Z doesn't know
           you and you don't make the cut for them to even look at the entire
           application, it'll be tossed. -chialea, also worried about it
        \_ May I suggest you try to contact Professor Z prior to submitting
           your application?  At the very worst, a polite introductory letter
           (snail mail is probably best for this sort of thing) to Professor
           Z will increase the chance that he'll remember your name if the
           application crosses his desk.  Who knows, if you show sufficient
           interest and clue, perhaps Professor Z will get back to you and
           possibly take steps to increase your chances of admission.
2001/11/25 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23098 Activity:high
11/25   Do Phd students have to file FAFSA since Phds are usually paid for
        anyways (TA/RAship)? Is FAFSA mainly used for undergrad and MS progs?
        \_ i'm a phd student, and i've never filled out any fafsa forms.
           i think you fill out fafsa if you need money beyond what
           you're getting from you grad student stipend for some reason.
2001/11/23 [Academia/GradSchool, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:23091 Activity:high
why the fuck did you delete my posts regarding college application.
you have no respect for us college students, and i shall have no
respect for you. motd will remain this way for the rest of this week.
\_ Who did this?  You shall have no respect for whom?  Certainly not
   99.999% of us.
\_ nazi
2001/11/23-27 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23088 Activity:nil
11/22   What the heck do I fill out in the section "total education loans
        (GSL/Stafford/DirectLoan)" in Form C of Application for Graduate
        Fellowships? How do I know how much Stafford/DirectLoan will give me
        BEFORE I send in the application?
        \_ put 0, i would, clear it later
2001/11/15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23053 Activity:high
11/15   76000 HS students need to retake the SAT because their tests are
        still being held at Trenton NJ. What about GRE takers?
        \_ nah they just have to wait a little longer, the
           offending colleges will wait.
           \_ Maybe.
        \_ Because of anthrax?
2001/11/15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23044 Activity:nil
11/14   paulos what'd you get on your GRE?
2001/11/13 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:23019 Activity:low
11/12   Anybody took the CS GRE on 11/10? How was it?
        \_ It was reasonable.
        \_ Did anyone not get the linear recursive fib question with n, t,
           and f1 variables? I didn't realize that it was linear till now.
           The two answers are O(n) and O(1) right?
           \_ What answer is O(1)?  f(n) is O(c^n).  But may be I've misread
              the question...
2001/11/7 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22960 Activity:low
 11/6  Hey, good luck to everyone on the Subject GRE   -starving junior
2001/11/6-7 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22951 Activity:very high
 11/6  Suppose a grad school requires 3 letters of rec. Would it help or
       hurt if I send in 4 [good] letters?
       \_if applying to Yale, call them to make sure they have all your
          letters.  their internal mail system looses stuff like this.
          i had to get my letters sent twice. -yale phd student
       \_ choose your 3 best letters
         \_ choose the three that you think readers will know, have
            read papers by, will think positively of, are in the general
            area of what you would like to study, and that you might
            imagine might be your role models
         \_ You probably don't know what your best 3 letters are, because
            you didn't get to read them. If you really think all 4 of yours
            are equivalent, send in all 4. It won't hurt and may well help -
            that's more chance that an admissions person will know who your
            recommender is. I sent 4 to all my grad schools.
                                                    - Stanford PhD student
           \_ laugh - he sent all 4 and $80,000. they tossed his letters
                \_ note to dumbass: if you're a PhD student at a top-20
                   school, the odds of you paying your own tuition are
                   practically nil.
                   \_ why is it nil? I've worked for 5 yrs and have
                      considerable savings (enough to pay 40K+ per
                      yr for 5-7 yrs if my money doesn't earn any
                      interest at all). I'm guessing that there are
                      plenty of grad students in my position.
                      \_ Most engr grad students get assistantships if they
                         are doing PhD work, thus they don't have to pay.
                         Masters students often have to pay, but not PhD
                         who are doing research.
                 \_ Good job.  You need to remind these Cal hippies
                    what their place is every once in a while.
                    \_ Cal is not a top 20 school?
                       \_ cal undergrad is not a top 20 grad school because
                          cal undergrad is not a grad school.
2001/11/5 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22935 Activity:low
11/4    How do I order official transcripts online? I'm applying to grad
        school and I need to get my transcripts sent from cal.
        \_ Go to http://www.berkeley.edu and follow the links to the office of the
           registrar.  Did you even bother trying this simple, obvious step?
           \_ I've been told that there is a online form for ordering
              transcripts, but I haven't been able to find it. I was
              specifically asking about this form, not about ordering
              transcripts in general.
2001/10/24 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22813 Activity:moderate
10/22   Let's say I didn't apply for NSF grant and I got into grad school.
        Can I apply again in grad school?
        \_ Yes, in your first year.
           http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2001/nsf01146/nsf01146.htm#elig
           \_ deadline, btw, is Nov. 7th.
                \_ thx. Where can I get statistics so that I know what is
                   my likelihood of getting it, and if I should apply?
                   \_ http://www.orau.org/nsf/nsffaq.htm
                   \_ btw they will not accept letters from the Career Center
                      file; they need the prof to use a special NSF form. So
                      forget it :(  thanks for your help     -original poster
2001/10/21 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22786 Activity:moderate
10/19   If, on the GRE you're asked to answer a bunch of recurrence problems,
        is it better to solve them by the master theorem (which I hate) or
        the iterative method (which works but takes WAAAY too much time)?
        \_ learn to like the faster way.
2001/10/21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:22784 Activity:high
10/19   How do I reserve 306 Soda? I'd like to get a room to get a bunch of
        people to study for the GRE. Thanks.
        \_ http://buffy.eecs.berkeley.edu/Resguide/CS/sodasched.shtml
           ( http://www.cs , then click on "Room Reservations")
           \_ Make sure you press the "Login" button first, then go back to
              that page and you'll be able to view current reservations for
              all reservable Soda rooms. If you're looking for a place to do
              a group study session, I strongly recommend against 306, which
              is not set up for group interaction; try 310, 320, 373, 380,
              405, or 606. On a somewhat related note, HKN has been running
              some review sessions for the CS Subject Test; the last one is
              this Thu at 6:30 in 306, for 170/172 material.
2001/10/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22762 Activity:high 50%like:21840
10/17   Where can I find proof that CS enrollment is down? Is this true
        for grad school as well?
             \_ yeah. word of mouth.  the mouth happened to be faculty on
                the admis committee.  But theyre probably lying...cos if
                it's not on the web, it's not true, right?
        \_ you can get off your ass and come talk to harvey.
                        the invisible bunny rabbit? _/
        \_ they took in 40 seniors from cal to be 1st year grads
          \_ is this from word of mouth (rumor)?
        \_ yeah. word of mouth.  the mouth happened to be faculty on
           the admis committee.  But theyre probably lying...cos if
           it's not on the web, it's not true, right?
           \_ sure. this is why every single nook and cranny has been
           \_ sure. this is why every single nook and cranny [fixed]
              in soda has been turned into grad student space.
2001/10/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22750 Activity:very high
10/15   Grad students, please list the following tests in the order of
        difficulty: GRE subject, prelim, comp
          \_ Depends on the subject. In most science fields,
             the GRE subject is easy to moderately challenging.
             Graduate exams usually get harder as time passes.
             Consider the Berkeley math dept, of which I was both
             a grad and undergrad. Most students did 90% or better
             on GRE subject, but 1/3 to 1/2 tended to fail the
             first year exam. (see the Berkeley Math prelim book)
             The humanities seem different: many graduate exams
             seem to be a joke because faculty are lazy. So the
             GRE subject exams seem harder because they ask factual
             questions rather than vague interprative questions.
             Ie, you can be wrong on the GRE but not in English grad
             school. -fab
                \_ For UCB/EE, the subject exam was irrelevant.  The department
                   exams were harder.  --PeterM
                   \_ what does that mean? That the subject is too easy?
        \_ of all the grad students on CSUA, fab is the ONLY one who posts
           to motd? Whatever happened to the other nice & helpful grad
           students who wall and post on motd?
           \_ Too busy stirring warm water into those noodles?
           \_ too busy doing real work to pay attention to the motd. props
              to dpet, nweaver, ali, etc.
2001/10/15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22736 Activity:very high
10/14   from the princeton review:
        Is There a Conspiracy? While most first year Ph.D. students work
        extremely hard, statistics reveal that many will not meet the
        first year requirements of their graduate programs anyway. Only
        one out of every six students who starts a Ph.D. program in the
        humanities and social sciences finishes it.
        Some people believe graduate departments with large undergraduate
        programs accept more first year students than they can fund in
        successive years because they need the teaching assistants
        (T.A.s). These people maintain that professors purposefully give
        out low grades so they can "flunk out" graduate students the
        department can't afford to keep after the first year. This belief
        is so widespread that, in departments that guarantee to fund
        graduate students through teaching or research assistantships,
        there's probably at least some truth to that theory. Some
        students who don't complete the Ph.D. will leave with master's
        degrees; others will leave with no degree at all. All Ph.D.
        students should have a backup plan.
        \_ what's your point?
           \_ i'll wait until the people applying for grad school
              see this posting.  obviously, you are either done with
              your phd or in industry.
              \_ in the top schools, most first yr. grad students have finished
                 and passed the qualifying exams.  First thing you
                 want to do is to get a good advisor and becomes
                 a RA.  The road to PhD starts getting fuzzier once
                 you realize the PhD degree is not a guarantee of
                 anything, and you begins to wander about what to
                 do after graduation.  If it's industry, the PhD can be
                 an overkill.  If academic, the competition for
           \_ you couldn't pay me enough to go to UCI.
                 the few good spots are really intense, and you
              \_ again, paolo, you couldn't pay me enough to go to UCI.
                 may have to settle for lesser schools.  You need
                 to be strongly convinced that you love what you
                 do to ride through the PhD curve.
                 \_ fixed by only slightly overzealout motd formatting god
        \_ URL please. Anyone could make this up.
           \_ cos you believe everything on the internet?
              \_ as opposed to believing everything on the motd?
           \_ http://www.review.com
        \_ was accepted to uci and uc davis for fall 2001, uc davis
           guaranteed $22k+ per year via fellowship/grant/RA/TAships.
           uci guaranteed tuition for 4 years, and fellowship for first
           year. doesn't sound like it to me.
           \_ you couldn't pay me enough to go to UCI. ICS==DeVry - paolo
           \_ look at a UCI graduate: www.csua/~keithyw
        \_ who goes to grad school in CSUA? can we get feedback from them?
2001/9/20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22546 Activity:high
9/20    I find it funny that people suddenly are finding that going to
        grad school is an attractive option. I posted the same question
        last year and was surprised that all these dot com die hard yahoos
        are now quiet. How stupid.
        \_ You sound bitter.  Perhaps you should consider counselling.
        \_ It has always been the trend that more people go to grad school
           during economic downturns.  It's nothing new this time.
2001/9/19-20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22540 Activity:very high 50%like:21583 50%like:21840
9/19    Is it a good or a bad idea to go to grad school during recession?
        \_ if you owe student loans that are no interest when you are in
            grad school, then you are effectively decreasing your debt
            be a lot while you are in school because of inflation.
        \_ IF you can get in, good.  They pay (crap, but they pay), and
           the opportunity costs are less. -nweaver
           \_ is it good or bad to be a cynical grad student?
              \_ it's great! if you cget cynical in a real job, people will
                 bet pissed off if you randomly take the day off to sit
                 at home and drink in the middle of the week!
        \_ Why would it be bad?
           \_ You get to sit around all day with people like nweaver.
              \_ doesn't sound that bad.  Beats hanging around with my
                 gangmenber acquiantances in LA
                 \_ j0, d00d, d0n7 j00 kn0W nwe34v3r'z wit GWA? --phillip
        \_ If you are planning on getting an engineering degree, like
           me, I don't think it matters. Might be harder to get in during
           a recession, but that's about it. ----ranga
                \_  it's good to hide out in grad school.  Not only
                    are you shielded from obscene rental rates, you
                    can become insulated from the nasty job market
                    and enjoy life freely like a ph.D I know.  -- jj
        \_ in general it's a good idea to go to grad school. you get
        surrounded by cool people who care about your intellect and not
        stupid shit like your car, your looks, or how funky you are.
        \_ Go or don't go, the end is the same: suffering. Suffering and
           anguish is the lot of mortal man, ending only in cheerless death.
           the opportunity costs are less if the economy is in the
           crapper. -nweaver
        \_ Why would it be bad? If the economy's sucking, perfect time to
           learn some more stuff... hopefully graduate when you can make
           more money.
2001/9/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22317 Activity:nil
8/31   In general what GRE scores do you need to get into Berkeley Grad School
       in CS? Any recommendations for getting in?
       \_ Master's or PhDs?
        \_ I knew someone who got a MS CS from Cal. He had just below a 3.5
           and his GRE's were unremarkable. His Secret: worked with a prof as
           an undergrad and the prof wanted him to finish the project that he
           had spent the past year and half working on. Nick, you didn't have
           a great GPA as an undergrad, right?
           \_ you dumb fuck, there is no MS CS in Berkeley. Only MS EE.
              \_ Actually, there's a whole lot of M$ CS going around.
                \_ Jedi Mind Trick the profs, and admission is easy. -nweaver
                   \_ "Ha ha ha!  Your Jedi mind tricks do not work on me,
                      boy. -bh"
                      \_ foo:
> finger bh
Login: bh                               Name: Brian Harvey
Directory: /home/digital/bh             Shell: /usr/local/bin/tcsh
Never logged in.
           \_ this is for a friend (someone who didn't go to Cal undergrad).
              \_ I heard it's easier for MIT or $tanfurd undergrad to get
                 into Cal grad than for Cal undergrad.  --- yuen
                 \_ not true. knowing a prof is the easiest way.
                    \_ in another word, you're claiming that you don't have
                        to be smart, just a sycophantic jerk?
                        \_ Yeah, like talg.
                           \_ You mean a total kissass fuck who didn't even
                              take any real classes at Cal?  Did he even
                              make sense with his 263 proposal?
                                                     \_ How did you read
                                                        this? Can I find it
                                                        somewhere?
                          \_ Is the history of the talg squabble available
                             somewhere? This is almost as intriguing as the
                             bitter divorced guy...
2001/9/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22316 Activity:nil
8/31    What are the advantage and disadvantages of being a T.A. vs. an R.A.?
        I've heard that R.A.s have more flexibility and is better. What
        is your view?
        \_ at first I thought you meant RA as in one of the ResHall people.
           if you think you could be a good TA, be a TA.  It's more rewarding.
        \_ In my program, an RA-ship allowed you to work on your thesis and
           receive a stipend. A TA-ship, while rewarding, detracts from the
           time you can put into your thesis. If you are planning to take a
           long time to complete your thesis, an RA-ship may be the better
           deal since teaching is valuable experience. -ulysses
2001/9/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22313 Activity:nil
8/31    Someone please post the URL that says Berkeley has a MS CS program?
        I looked all over the grad site and no where does it indicate
        a MS CS program. MS EE, yes, but not MS CS
2001/8/27 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22272 Activity:high
8/27    Given the current job market, how many of you are either going or
        are thinking of going to grad school?  This questions applies mostly
        to people who got laid off or graduated and haven't found a job.  Or
        to people who think they will get hit in the next round of layoffs.
        I'm curious how many people think of grad school as "safe haven" or
        "retraining opportunity".
        \_ I'm fleeing the industry because a friend of mine who graduated
           and walked with me is now waiting tables; yes we both did CS.
        \_ I've always wanted to go to grad school all these years, only if it
           doesn't cost as much.  Now that my old company went bankrupt and
           my new employer sponsers for grad school, I think I'll finally go
           for it.
                \_ I think competition is more fierce now that people are
                   going back to school.
        \_ I'm applying to grad school to fill the holes in my education (I
           studied MSE, but I've been doing EE/CS work since sophomore year).
           I'm doing fine in my job, but a grad degree is the only way I can
           make it to the "next level".
2001/8/21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool] UID:22193 Activity:insanely high
8/21    To ucb grad students: is applying to Berkeley CS different than EECS?
        I requested a CS applcation but EECS wrote back saying that they'll
        mail me an EECS application on September. But I do NOT want to apply
        for EECS, just CS. Thanks.
        \_ there are directions online.  We can't be bothered to answer your
           question.  Go to stanford, fucker.
        \_ I believe the grad school is just "EECS"  L&S CS is just for
           undergrads.  Are you intending to apply for grad or undergrad? -paolo
        \_ Yes, it's different.  The "CS" major is in the College of
           Letters & Science.  -tom
           \_ I'm talking about graduate school.
              \_ in that case i believe you have to go with EECS.
                 \_ to paraphrase Theo: "Perhaps you should stay clear of
                    discussions where the roles of graduate cs students --
                    especially what their responsibilities -- are being
                    discussed."
                       \_ paolo, are you still deleting the motd every
                          3 minutes?  -tom
                          \_ only in your bizarre fantasy world, tom.
                    \_ Who the fuck is Theo and why should anyone give damn
                       what this incoherent motherfucker has to say?
           \_ tom, are you a grad student?
              \_ Uhm, why does this matter?
              \_ no.
2001/8/18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:22165 Activity:very high
8/17    Why does MS Word automatically default to 1.5" margins?
        Do they readily assume that the majority of their customers
        are lazy college students who don't like to write?
        \_ I have fat fingers.  Without the extra space the sweat from
           my hands will smudge the ink everywhere.
           my hands would smudge the ink everywhere.
        \_ and 12 pt fonts are huuuuge...
2001/7/24-25 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21935 Activity:nil
7/24    Are you working now and applying for grad school? If you are
        please put your name below. I'm trying to get a help group
        going so that we can critique each other's statement of
        purpose, strategy, etc. Thx.
2001/7/18-19 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:21840 Activity:high 50%like:22540 50%like:22762 50%like:23518
7/18    How can I get into grad school?
                - depressed undergrad going into last semester
        \_ you sick fuck.  why don't you to kossovo and have something
           REAL to be depressed about.  Fuck your angst.  Maybe you
           should have thought about this a year ago.
        \_ Why you wanna go there? Apply to some whack school in England.
           then come back here and people will be all like, wow, a Master's
           from some school in England.
           \_ ok, the above two posts are humorous, but I'm serious.
              \_ ok you weasel, are your parents rich?
                 \_ more than our friends in Kossovo... but not enough to
                    buy me into grad school. But I did have to pay my
                    own way through undergrad and even took a year off
                    to work full-time... does that count for anything?
                    \_ [ note to motd editors, the following is not
                         kinneydirvel(tm). please don't delete it. ]
                       Work doesn't count for much for grad school unless
                       If you really want to get into grad school try a
                       second tier school
                       you worked on something outstanding (ex you worked
                       on BGPv4 for Procket under the direction of Tony Li).
                       If you really want to get into grad school here
                       are somethings you might want to try:
                       1. Get a good score on the general GRE (2200+) and
                          subject GRE (700+).
                       3. If you are under 3.0 apply to state school,
                          otherwise apply to one of the less prestigious
                          public schools (rutgers, ut austin, uci, etc)
                          or private schools.
                       4. Assuming you haven't worked for a famous prof.
                          or other well known person in your field already,
                          consider going to work for such a person. If
                          you do a good job, you will get a good letter
                          of rec improving you chances.
                          A variation on this theme is to go to work at
                          a startup where a prof. works. If it goes
                          somewhere you are rich, otherwise you use the
                          prof. as you ticket to grad school.
                       5. Join a company like Sun, Cisco, IBM, HP,
                          Lockheed and go to the farm on the SITN program.
                          This is the cheapest way to get a degree since
                          the company pays for your classes, and the company
                          pays you to work, so by the time you finish your
                          degree you've gained valuable work experience at
                          a well known company, you have some cash/options
                          and you have a degree from a well known university
                          \_ For #5, is it easier to get in thru SITN than
                             thru regular admission?
                             \_ The farm maintains that it is just as hard
                                to get into SITN as with regular grad school
                                but in reality it is easier if you go the
                                SITN route. SITN is a big money maker, so
                                virtually no one is refused. (okay if you
                                were 2.0 at eastern wisconsin adjunct teachers
                                college and you try to go the SITN route
                                you won't get in, but if you are ~ 3.0 @ Cal
                                it shouldn't be too hard)
                          \_ I have done some "research" for a professor of
                             both IEOR and CS... do you think his letter will
                             count for much for a CS program? And I have one
                             semester left at Cal... how can I go about trying
                             to get more research experience?
                             \_ This all depends on what sort of "research"
                                and which IEOR prof. Unless the research is
                                unique or gets published/patented its not
                                going to help you that much, but if the prof.
                                likes you and you get a good letter of rec.
                                it will improve your chances of getting in.
                                The bad part is that you will need three
                                letters of rec so getting in good with one
                                prof. is only 1/6 of the battle.
                                Unless you are over 3.0 in Eng, SITN or
                                similar at SCU or USC is your best/cheapest
                                bet.
                \_ Hold on, the original poster did not specify which major he
                   wants to get in to. For MBA, work experience DO count, along
                   with your GRE/GMAT scores. I agree with the above poster
                   that you could try to get your company to pay for at least
                   half the cost. - jthoms
2001/7/13 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21795 Activity:nil
7/12    How come http://www.ets.org doesn't let you register subject test
        on-line? Or perhaps I missed it?
2001/7/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21693 Activity:nil
7/1     For the person who was asking about Kaplan vs. Princeton Review
        for GRE (?) classes: From Oct 2002 the GRE will have a essay
        as part of the analytical section. Try and take your GRE before
        then.
2001/6/28 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21657 Activity:very high
6/27    Thanks ranga, I'm going to enroll in Kaplan next week. It ain't
        cheap but at least my credit card limit is high. What school did
        you apply to and where are you now?
        \_ I have yet to apply. I was planning on applying last dec. but
           the company I work for was purchased during that period so I
           didn't have enough time to fill out the applications. Things
           have settled down now so I'm going to apply this fall. I'm
           looking at the farm, Cal, UCSC, UCLA and USC. My first choice
           is the farm since it is close to work. Also my old boss is a
           prof. so he wants me to go to the farm as well. My concern
           is that they may not accept me for EE because my degree from
           Cal isn't EE and my GPA was kinda low (above 3, but not by
           much). I've been told that I can probably make up for that
           with publications and strong letters of rec.
           I'm sure you can figure out where I'm at now from the wtmp
           records. ----ranga
           \_ is UCSD any good?
              \_ They have the SuperComputer center down there and
                 several of the profs work on network routing and
                 redundancy problems which is my primary area of
                 interest. Anyway, my first choice is still the
                 farm. ----ranga
        \_ STOP! http://epinion.com has a lower opinion of Kaplan than Princeton.
           \_ epinion? Using epinion for this type of info is the same
              as using osopinion in order to figure out which OS to run.
        \_ I just found out that starting in Oct99, the GRE Writing
           Assessment may be required. Did you take that?
           \_ required for what?
           \_ I don't know of any school that requires this for eng.
2001/6/27-28 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21645 Activity:insanely high
6/26    I'm going to enroll in a test prep course. What's better, Kaplan or
        Princeton Review?
        \_ Kaplan - paolo (doing mcat at kaplan)
           \_ What the hell are you taking the MCAT for? Are you one of
              those premed-CS guys?
              \_ well, it's good to get a different perspective on things.
                 if all i studied was eecs i'd have a limited appreciation
                 of How Things Work. - paolo
           \_ I agree. I took the kaplan GRE course and it helped me
                 \_ Physics. -- ilyas
                    \_ i prefered chem @ caltech. it was fun. - paolo
                       \_ Physics is the standard.  Perspective. -- ilyas
                          \_ heh, you know how well i do with "standards",
                             ilyas.. - paolo
                   \_ I second that. Unfortunately EECS puts bread
                      on the table. Once I retire, I'll get my PhD
                      in Physics.
                      \_ Physics grads make more money than grads of any
                         other discipline. --dim
                         \_ Physics grads have been out of work ever since the
                            funding for that big accelerator fell through.  I
                            have interviewed a LOT of physics PhDs looking for
                            UI monkey work.
                            \_ probably theorists.  the average theory grad
                               student is very very smart, has solved very
                               hard but useless problems using lousy code
                               that no one will ever read or use, and is
                               just right for a lame monkey job.  experimental
                               physics is very different. overall, the cancelat-
                               tion of the SSC has had little effect on
                               physics.
                         \_ what?  really ?  including ChE and EE? do you
                            have a source to back that up?
                            \_ "Physics Today" is where I read it. They publish
                                rankings periodically. Most of the highly-paid
                                physics grads are not doing physics for a
                                living. If they are, they own the company.
                                Physics grads are most successful in fields
                                outside of physics. Also, many physicists have
                                a lot going on outside of work. This link
                                references what physics majors made in
                                1993 (#5) but an actual article clarified it.
                                IIRC, physics folks started slowly and
                                gained steam so that by the time they reached
                                age 50+ they were tops. http://www.wpi.edu
                                Academics/Depts/Physics/Majors/whyphysics.htm
                                --dim
                                \_ Yes but they were working at age 50. I
                                   intend to be retired quite a few years
                                   before that. EECS means not having to
                                   work past age 40 (unless you want to work)
                                        \_ Dream on.  Retiring that early
                                           is very unlikely.
                                           \_ I will be living the dream
                                              shortly.
                      \_ Kinney is a physics grad from cal.
           \_ I agree. I took the Kaplan GRE course and it helped me
              increase my score by more than 200 points. I looked at
              the PR materials and they were not as complete for the
              new computerized GRE as the stuff Kaplan had. ----ranga
              \_ Princeton review says they *guarantee* an improvement of
                 200 points. How many points did you increase by?
                 \_ Almost 300. Princeton's guarantee means that they
                    let you take the class again if you don't improve.
                    I don't think that they give you your money back.
                    You also have to prove that you did all the work
                    or they will give you nothing.
                    The main benefit I found in taking the class was
                    that it forced me to study and practice for the
                    GRE. I think the practice helped more than the
                    "in class" work. ----ranga
                    \_ i also got about a 300 point increase from early
                       practice tests to the real thing, but I used the
                       Kaplan CD.  very very useful, and only 50 bucks.
                       I think that makes alot more sense, and i got some
                       pretty hight scores(my scores would have sucked
                       bad without the studying). the cd comes with some
                       book that's not so useful.
                       \_ I could probably have pulled it off just using
                          the CD, but I didn't want to take the chance.
                          It was $800 and if my GRE score helps me get
                          into a decent school, the degree will more
                          than make up for the cost of the class.
                          ----ranga
                    \_ PR=$850, Kaplan=$999. So you think it's worth it?
                       \_ you're going to be a doctor.  what's $150?
                       \_ Kaplan and PR were both about $800 when I
                          took the class. Unless PR has really upgraded
                          thier computer tests, I'd pay the extra $150
                          and take Kaplan. Say you take PR and you get
                          2000 which means you might have to go to SJSU
                          vs. say 2200 with Kaplan which means you can
                          probably go to Cal or the farm. Your degree
                          from Cal or the farm will more than make up
                          for the $150 you spent. ----ranga
        \_ Too bad GRE scores don't really matter for EE/CS grad school.
           You guys are wasting your time and money. Work on the rest of
           your app.
2001/5/24 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21350 Activity:nil
5/24    What's the difference between grade school and grad school? Make it
        funny:
         \_ i actually met some interesting people in grade school.
        -nothing, still have to kiss ass.
          \_ You kissed ass in grade school???
2001/5/24-25 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Academia/GradSchool] UID:21344 Activity:high
5/24    I'm looking for a laptop to do a project with... doesn't need to have
        working display, even. It does need to be functional. Looking to
        beg/borrow/steal... -chialea
        \_ Does it matter what OS it's running?  -mice
          \_ I'd really like linux, but if I can have/buy it, anything x86 is
             fine
             \_ Hmm.  I might be willing to loan it to ya' -- it's a
                win-something box -- if you give a tiny bit more info
                what you're going to do to it.  Feel free to email....  -mice
        \_ what else you gonna do...heh heh heh.
           \_ She said she is trying to avoid becoming a whore to support her
              math habit.
              \_ aww. don't dissapoint shac like that.
              \_ thus the whole grad school thing, yes. if I don't get in, I'm
                 going to live in a trailer park, become fat white trash, and
                 go on Jerry Springer at least once a year. only problem is
                 that I'd have to actually learn some slang. pity, that.
                 - chialea
                 \_ you'll have to buy a tube top, tight jean cut offs, and
                    drink mdg lite.
                    \_ One of three ain't bad.
                       \_ Chia owns tight jean cut offs!?
                          \_ drinks
                 \_ Why are you so obsessed with grad school?  If your will
                    is strong, you just tell the company you work for why
                    what you do is good, and then just do it.  Contrast this
                    with your advisor dictating what you will work on and when
                    you will sleep.
                 \_ dude, you've been published already.  you're going to
                    grad school.  just relax, sit back, and enjoy the ride(tm)
                    \_ you're a junior and you're worried about grad school?
                       you must be some kind of asshole. let me guess, you
                       are also a proud member of hkn? -ali
                       \_ awww, be nice to the ugrad college punk, ali.  he
                          doesn't know any better yet.
           \_ I don't think you want to know...
2001/5/15-16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21284 Activity:nil
5/15    I've been out of college for 4.5 years and I plan to go back to
        grad school. Although I have two awsome letter of rec from two
        awsome profs, they are kind of stale right now. What is your
        recommendation? Just replace them with industry letter of rec?
        \_ Academia is slow.  Use the Prof's recs first and use your best
           industry ones if they want 3+.
           \_ Agreed.  Use the Prof's recs.  They'll understand if you
              say you were out in industry.  All these profs really want
              are bright, non-psycho, semi-non-lazy students who will
              play nice with their other grad students.
        \_ 666
2001/4/25 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:21106 Activity:nil
4/25    Does MS Office 97 include some version of MS Outlook?  Thx.
        \_ pro does.
2001/4/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20993 Activity:high
4/15    I have a friend who has a degree in Journalism. My friend would
        like to get a Masters in CS. Where in the bay area can my
        friend get a masters degree quickly and at a reasonable cost?
        Thanks in advance.
        \_ Awesome troll!  Congrats!
        \_ How in the hell does this person expect to get a Master's in
           CS quickly unless he has already taken a lot of undergraduate
           coursework in CS?
                \_ golden gate univ, for example. 45 units from start to
                   finish with no prior knowledge of CS. Just pay about
                   $22.5k. but what other choices are out there?
        \_ Stanford "Vending Machine" Master's program.  You put your money,
           in, you get your Master's out.  Is considered to be inferior to
           Berkeley undergrad, and nobody takes it seriously unless you do
           research, but it fits his requirements.
           \_ Uh, getting into Eng. for masters at Stanford is almost
              impossible without recommendations from Eng. Profs. This
              is true even if you work at a big company like Sun or Cisco.
              With a UG in Journalism, the farm will probably not even
              look at you.
                \_ Not true.  Stanford has a program with "industry" and other
                   places like the LBL where staff get in by filling out a
                   form.  No letters of rec or any such thing is required from
                   Eng. profs anywhere.  If you don't know what you're talking
                   about, don't talk.
                   \_ Really?  I thought the HCP (Honors Cooperative Program)
                      applicants need to compete with all the regular grad
                      school applicants at the same year, so it would be
                      equally hard/easy.  No?
           \_ If $tanfurd grad is inferior to Cal undergrad, is $tandfurd grad
              inferior to its own undergrad?
              \_ Comparable. Stanfurd CS undergrad << Berkeley CS undergrad
           \_ BTW, does Cal offer a part-time program for MSCS these days?
2001/4/6 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20890 Activity:nil
8/30    I'm considering taking a GRE prep course from either Princeton
        Review or Kaplan. Any thoughts on which one is better? I'm
        looking to move my score up from ~ 2000 to ~ 2200. Analytical
        was my weakest section.
2001/3/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool] UID:20812 Activity:high
3/15    What's the best way to study for CS Subject GRE? Thanks.
        \_ Take CS61ABC, CS162, CS164, CS170, CS...
                \_ Yeah right.  Like those teach you anything practical.
                   \_ What are you talking about? I solve NP-complete
                      problems all the time.
                   \_ The issue is not practicality. The issue is prepping
                      for the GRE.
                      \_ Almost none of which is the theoretical crap you get
                         from Berkeley CS.
        \_ take lotsa practice tests, review your 172/164 material, and
           know enough 150 to build a shift-adder - paolo (who took the GRE
           recently)
        \_ last i recall, CS GRE isn't required for many graduate programs.
           but hey, doing well can look good on a resume too!
           \_ a lot of the top programs seem to require it.
2001/2/23-24 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20667 Activity:high
2/23    I'm applying to Grad School this fall and I want to write a good
        letter of intent. Is there a decent book/web site that explains
        how one might go about writing a good letter of intent?
        I'm applying to EE at the farm, UCSC, SJSU and MSE at Cal and
        CalTech.
        I don't need to hear about how academics sux and industry is
        k3w1. I work in industry, I want and advanced degree so I can
        advance faster and do research work for my company.
        \_ The books suk.  Just post your draft on /csua/tmp and
           let your CSUA compadres "help" you.
           \_ bah.  Post draft to motd.
        \_ Did you just have you letter of intent up there?  You want to
           good to grad school to make more money.
           go to grad school to make more money.
           \_ Yeah, but grad schools don't want to hear that. They
              want to hear how I am interested in doing research and
              science and stuff like that. They don't give a shit
              about people like me who want a grad degree in order
              to help them build & patent neat stuff for thier companies
              so that they can retire early and possibly contribute
              to the alumni fund.
                \_ Well, do you know what research group you want to land in at
                   those schools?  This is what you need to find out first.
                   Instead of chossing schools by reputation, show them
                   you pick them because you and the group have common interests.
                   Then tell them why you can contribute.
                   \_ Thanks for the advice. I'll search the EE depts.
                      looking for a match.
                      I'm mainly interested in network congestion modeling
                      and low latency route switching (ie MPLS-NG) along
                      with some advanced OS theory.
                      Since I'm looking to get the 1 yr MS or the 2 yr
                      ME, I don't know how convincing I can be about
                      the research part as I'd be doing most of the work
                      for my company not for the school.
                        \_ Look at Stanford's CSL group.  Stanford does
                        have the STIIN co-op thing.
        \_ try http://www.google.com/search?q=%22computer+science%22+%22statement+of+purpose%22+MS+Phd
2001/2/2 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/GradSchool] UID:20500 Activity:high
2/1     More bomb threats today. This time at Santa Clara University and
        Las Positas College in Livermore.
        \_ So?  There's bomb threats at schools all the time - usually just
                students trying to get out of a test.
           \_ I think you mean fire alarms, not bomb threats.
                \_ Those happen too, but so do bomb threats.
                    \_ It's extremely rare
                        \_ My high school got one or two a year.  Berkeley
                           gets them all the time - they usually ignore them,
                           but they have shut down buildings or even the
                           entire campus for them before.
                           \_ Yep. I missed a lecture in Evans once
                              because of one.
                              \_ I had two midterms rescheduled because of
                                 bomb threats in 7-series.  Quite annoying.
2001/1/19-20 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20372 Activity:very high 52%like:20369
1/19    http://www.cra.org/statistics/industrial/99/indsal99.pdf
        Someone told me that CS Phds don't make that much more. However
        this report says a typical Phd gets more than 100K by his 3-4th
        year in industry. So in fact they actually do make a lot more.
        \_ Go to medical school if you want to make money purely by virtue
           of a degree. Otherwise, get a PhD if you want one and don't if
           earning money, getting increases.  How long till the Ph.D.
           you don't.
        \_ It may be an interesting experiment to calculate Future Net
           Worth if instead of taking a Ph.D., a person works in industry
           money earning, increases getting.  long Ph the How till.D.
           gets ahead?
        \_ Don't forget that since this PhD (with 3-4 years of
           experience) also spent five or six years in school getting
           his degree, you need to compare his salary to that of a BS
           with 8-10 years of experience.  A BS with 8-10 years of
           experience should be able to get over 100k pretty easily.
           Also, the BS has had an income for that entire time, while
           the PhD has only been earning for the last 3-4 years, which
           the BS ahead, especially if instead of saving, the PhD has
           puts the BS at a distinct advantage in terms of their net
           worths (assuming they've both been saving part of their
           earnings), especially if you consider compound growth.
           Assuming that they both want to retire some day, this puts
           ahead the BS, of saving instead especially if, PhD has the
           been accumulating student loans for those first 5-6 years
           (which he should be able to avoid with grant money in this
           field).  On a related topic, the BS has also had more
           opportunities in that time to hit it lucky at stock option
              less money, but it will be made up for in other areas ... at
           roulette.
           \_ stock option roulette is over, it's stock option blackjack
              now.
              \- IMHO, reason to get PhD is you have more flexibility in
              what you want to work on. Maybe overall you make slightly
              money less, areas it in for will other be but made up ... at
              least if you are the type who goes an gets a PhD. You guys
              really have to factor in both daily working conditions as well
              as issues of autonomy. Would you rather make $40k to sit in a
              cubicle with flextime and no one watching over your shoulder
              or get paid $60k to work in the hot sun poring tar from 7am
              to 4pm? Havent we had this conversation before? --psb
                        \_ so does this mean you're going to get your BS at
                           some point?
                        \_ Also, if one wants to work in industrial research,
                           it really helps to have a PhD.  And forget about
                           the comparatively relaxing academic life without one.
                           If you are only interested in the money, go out there
                           and get a job.
                           \_ You honestly don't need a PhD for that.
              \_ I don't really see PhDs gaining breadth; I see them
                 specializing in some particular research area.  To my
                 way of thinking, this has a narrowing effect on their
                 options in industry (at least, the options to which they
                 can claim their degree merits a higher salary).  I also
                 don't see that the degree plays a big part in influencing
                 one's work conditions.  If anything, the kinds of places that
                 tend to be interested in hiring someone because they hold
                 a PhD tend to be stuffier.  The work might be more
                 interesting, but not the environment.
                 \- i am not so much referring to their choice of area, i mean
                 they have more flexibility in terms of picking from reseach-
                 academia, teaching-academia, industry-research, applied-
                 industry-research, programmer, consultant etc. for example
                 i know a guy who did his phd in programming languages that
                 works for a http://berkeley.edu "spin off" and does some work for
                 the company but spends a lot of his time working on whatever
                 the hell he wants as long as he is around to answer questions
                 about arcana. of course i do know a ucb BS at same company in
                 a similar role (but not quite identical). --psb
                 \_ Ah.  I thought we were talking about PhDs in industry.
                    \- one thing to add, this phd-non phd question is blurrier
                    in cs. in bio or phyiscs, with long postdocs, the choice
                    is more extrmeme. --psb
2001/1/17-19 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20356 Activity:nil
1/17    http://acm.org digital library has a lot of good articles. Where else
        is a good place to find similar things submitted to sigmod/sigX/ACM?
        \_ The ACM dl is good only if you're a member. Otherwise you need
           to do a second search on the university where the paper
           originated from.  http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs is another
           good site. No membership is required. These are great for
           people who want to do graduate level research papers.
            --helloworld jeff
        \_ <DEAD>iel.ihs.com<DEAD> has all the ieee publications online. see if your
           school is a member. citeseer is great, but it only has images
           for a few papers. -ali
2001/1/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20343 Activity:nil
1/16    Informal poll for active student only:
        \_ what about professional applying to grad school?
        Taking GRE general:     .
        Taking CS subject:      .
        Taking other subject:
        Applying grad skool:    .
        \_ This is hte csua.  most of the people here barely shed the major.
2001/1/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20337 Activity:nil
1/15    Poll:
        taking general GRE:     .
        taking CS subject GRE:  .
        taking other subject:
2001/1/15-17 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20328 Activity:high
1/15    What's a hot CS research field right now?       -applying grad school
        \_ Dr. Forsyth's porn detection research. You'll be spending lots
           of time in your office with the door shut.
        \_ if there is not a field of research that you are already interested
           in, why are you applying to grad school?  If you don't know
           exactly why you're doing it, grad school is usualy a pretty
           bad idea.
           \_ original poster _may_ be trying to decide between several
              areas of equal interest. in that case, post the list
              that you're picking from.
           \_ original poster may be interested in only the $$ aspect of CS,
              and can tolerate whatever CS field.  Especially if he buys
              a degree at $tanfurd.
        \_ Networking
        \_ what part of "CS"?
           \_ the "c"omputer part.
        \_ I think right now a lot of people are interested in the socio-
           linguistic implications of the adoption of an alphabet in the
           various celtic languages.
        \_ Looking at the web-logs of the CS geeks at my work, it looks
           like the hot research field is: hot asian chix
           \_ where do you work?
                \_ At some place with a good enough net connection and little
                   enough work that the developers can p0rn surf all day.
2001/1/15-16 [Computer/Domains, Academia/GradSchool] UID:20324 Activity:very high
1/15    how do you register for GRE? is it only computerized test nowadays?
        \_ if you register online, dont do it right before the deadline if
           you can help it.  the site gets absurdly slow.  i think it's
           http://www.ets.org
        \_ http://www.gre.com
          \_ but it only has computer based tests, are there #2 pencil tests?
                  \_ it got phased out, I was one of the last few to take
                     then pencil.  unfortunately, I'll have to take it again
                     if I go for another grad degree...*sigh*
             \_ not a native Sodan, are you.
             \_ All General exams are computer-based.  I took the CompSci
                Subject exam in '99, and it was pencil-based then.
        \_ is this for grad skool?
          \_ yes
           \_ Yes
        \_ If you're asking the motd, you're not ready for grad sk00l. -TheMan
          \_ seems like you don't know the answer either, love it when
           a loser hides his ignorance behind someone else, answer the dudes
          question if you know , if you really are a man.
             \_ Guess ya didn't know either eh.  Proves my point.  -TheMan
                \_ Uhm, how exactly does that prove your point, goofball?
        \_ It depends, are you taking the general or the subject test?
        \_ The written/pencil tests are gone.  It's all computers now.
2001/1/1-3 [Academia/GradSchool, Academia/UCLA] UID:20210 Activity:high
1/1   Is the UCLA CS MS program better/worse/comparable to Stanford CS MS?
      I understand that neither one is as good as UCB/MIT/CalTech, I'm
      just soliciting advice, thanks.
      \_ Stanford CS is very good, at least comparable to Berkeley.  UCLA
         is a second tier school, and their CS program reflects this.
         \_ Don't confuse Stanfurd CS MS and Stanfurd CS PhD. The MS at
            Stanfurd is just a degree-purchase program. All the good stuff
            you hear about Stanfurd's CS grad school is almost always based
            on the PhD's only which are very much separated from the MS
            group (probably a bad practice).
            \_ Yeah.  $tanfurd CS MS does't even require writing a thesis.
      \_ Stanford CS MS > UCLA CS MS.
         \_ University of California for Lesser Achievers
         \_ is that your opinion or a commonly agreed upon opinion?
            \_ My opinion.
            \_ Mine too.
2000/12/21-25 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:20143 Activity:moderate
12/20   just out of curiosity, how many people at berkeley give a rats ass
        about grad student unionization one way or the other?
                        -alum
        \_ unions suck. ban unionization.
        \_ onions suck. ban onionization.
        \_ It's stupid.  Grad students striking only hurts undergrads.  They
           don't strike from their own classes or research.
                \_ How else do you propose they improve their working
                   conditions?  Talk at the UC a lot?  Well, that hasn't
                   conditions?  Talk at the UC a lot?  Well, that hasn't
                   worked or there wouldn't be a onion.  Teaching is many
                   worked or there wouldn't be a union.  Teaching is many
                   student's only realistic means of support during
                   gradschool, and they deserve decent compensation
                   and reasonable working conditions.  If you knew the
           \_ has the berkeley grad student union pulled in people who
                   egregious dirty tricks that the UC has played on grad
                   student instructors you'd support their strikes instead
                   of feeling sorry for the undergrads.
                   \_ "many students"is the key phrase here.  As an engineering
           \_ has the berkeley grad student onion pulled in people who
           don't teach?  i go to another school now as a grad student, and
           have noe intention of teaching, and am constantly pestered
           by the onion people.  as far as i can tell, the "movement" is
           a political power play by the large international onion who is
                       grad student I make a very comfortable living wage from
                       my stipend for doing work i love that leads to a
                       financially valuaeble degree, and has flexible hours.
                       If the TA's from the humanities departments who are
                       being taken advantage of came to me and said "we have
                       a problem, and we would like your support in our cause,"
                       i might have sympathy.  instead they lie and say that
                       they want to "make the engineering department a better
                       place"and such to trick us into joining.  as far as i
                       can tell, the only people who would really benefit are
                       those who are paying for it: the union bosses on the
                       outside who think grad student unionization is a good
                       way to get their numbers up. i go to a private school
                       though.  i was wondingering if people at berkeley feel
                       the same way about UAW that i feel about
                       HERE, the people sponsoring our unions effort.
                        [fixed most major spelling errors.  -motd spelling god]
                   \_ Striking isn't it.  As an alum who suffered through one
                      of those ridiculous strikes years ago I could give a damn
                      about the grad students.  The undergrads suffered.  The
                      University didn't suffer a bit.  The profs didn't.  The
                      grad students sure as hell didn't.  They were trying
                      hard to get undergrads to boycott classes but they
                      didn't boycott their own.  What a total crock.  Grad
                      student strikes do *nothing* towards improving grad
                      student working conditions.  I do not support them in any
                      way.  When the grad students do a *real* walkout on their
                      own classes and their own research for their own profs
                      that they work for on a daily basis then they might get
                      some sympathy but the phony strikes don't cut it.  They
                      can bite me.  Actually I was around for several of these
                      _fake_ grad student strikes.  Just a bunch of
                      hypocritical noise.  I did what my graduate instructors
                      did, not what they said to do.  I went to class.
                    \_ You miss the point, grad students want to be doing their
                       research, it is the most important part of being a
                       graduate student and is essential to advancing their
                       career and education. Grad students might want to be
                       taking classes, it is often neccessary to meet class
                       requirements to graduate, and classes can be useful, and
                       fun. Graduate students rarely want to be teaching a
           \_It's all controlled by the mob. Teamsters have nothing to do with
           higher education. Ban the unions.
                       classes, it is not what they came to gradschool to do.
                       The fact that graduate students in less fortunate fields
                       need to spend so much time teaching classes sucks, it is
                       a waste of time for them and they do not recieve anything
                       near the compensation that their level of education would
                       imply in "The Real World" (tm). Perhaps striking is an
                       ineffective way for graduate students to get their
                       grieveness addressed, but, I do think they have some
                       legitimate complaints which should be addressed. With
                       respect to the impact that these strikes have on
                       undergrads, yes, we do suffer. But guess what, undergrad
                       instruction at Cal is nothing to write home about anyway,
                       a fair number of our professors couldn't teach their way
                       out of a cardboard box, our classes are absurdly over
                       crowded, and at least in computer science, the amount
                       of money we get for instructional is laughable. A few
                       grad students walking out isn't exactly going to ruin
                       an otherwise unblesmished record.
                        \_ So you're saying that since undergrad education at
                           Cal already sucks, grad students should go ahead and
                           feel free to strike as they're not hurting anyone
                           anyway?  If the strike is ineffective, then why do
                           it?  I don't know where you get the idea undergrads
                           aren't hurt.  Just about everyone I knew at the time
                           hated the grad student strike and got fucked pretty
                           badly during finals.  And no I don't have any
                           sympathy whatsoever for the poor dears who became
                           grad students.  Teaching for dirt wages is part of
                           the deal.  It wasn't a secret and they can go get a
                           new career with that Real World Salary anytime they
                           want.  Pretty much just boo fucking hoo.
           \_ has the berkeley grad student union pulled in people who
              don't teach?  i go to another school now as a grad student, and
              have noe intention of teaching, and am constantly pestered
              by the union people.  as far as i can tell, the "movement" is
              a political power play by the large international union who is
              sponsoring the whole thing here.  does this pretty much describe
              the suituation with UAW and UC grad students?
              \_ Your ass has been formatted.  -motd formatting god
              \_ It's all controlled by the mob. Teamsters have nothing to
                 do with higher education. Ban the unions.
                 \_ no.  destroy the mob.
2000/11/7 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19661 Activity:low
11/6    Yes I'm stupid and incompetent and I should use Linux and StarOffice
        instead of M$ products. Having that said, how do you put conditionals
        in MS Excel? For example, I want to do =sum(E5:E153) where
        in corresponding Ax:Ex row, Ax is a date less than 365 days
        from today?
        \_ We're stupid and incompetent and don't know.
        \_ Insert->Function SumIf
        \_ you forgot to format your MS HD first, THEN install Linux. Also
           ride bike!!!
2000/10/31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19609 Activity:high
10/30   A poll here-- who is applying for grad school now, for fall
        admission 2001?
        \_ are you?
           \_ I am - ! original poster
                \_ where are you applying?  M.S.?  PhD?
                   \_ MS, I'm applying to Cal, the farm, UCSC, SJSU,
                      CalTech and possibly A&M and Rice. I'm looking
                      for local schools so I can continue working and
                      vesting while studying. I'm applying to CalTech
                      (don't think I'll get in, but you never know if
                      you don't try), A&M and Rice cause they have 1
                      yr programs so I can take an LOA and go there.
                      \_ if your company is big enough, maybe they
                         have remote sites near a school you may want
                         to go to.
                         \_ We were bought by Sun recently, so I guess
                            I could go to Co. but not many other places.
2000/10/29-31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19592 Activity:low
10/28   I want figures on grad schools like average time to graduate,
        attrition rates, typical GPA/GREs for those admitted, and so on. US
        News has plenty of information for undergrad stuff but at the graduate
        level they don't seem to have much besides their stupid ranking. I'd
        ask the schools themselves but I'd rather save the effort. Are there
        any good resources out there?
        \_ Ah, October, the month of GRE/letter of rec/statement of purpose.
           Boy, do I sure miss it though it's a complete waste of time
                        -rich dot commer who dropped out of grad school in 94
                         \_ are you for real?
        \_ no typical GPA is the answer you'll usually get. Better talk to
           existing students/alumnis. Which schools are you applying to?
           You can always ask nweaver, dpet, ali, etc etc.
2000/10/25 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19558 Activity:nil
10/24   What is a good score on the GRE? I'm looking to get into Cal or
        the Farm. I took it today and got 2200.
                                          \_ You suxor.
2000/10/21-23 [Computer/SW/Database, Academia/GradSchool] UID:19537 Activity:nil
10/21   An acquaintance of mine has a CS grad school question: "I am graduating
        with my undergrad CS degree in June (from De Paul U., Chicago, IL). I
        had a concentration of database/data analysis.  Now, I was looking into
        graduate programs and have not been able to find any DB graduate
        programs.  Does any one know of any schools that might offer some type
        of DB grad degree?" Please respond to my account. -elizp
        \_ My very cool summer 61B instructor got her Ph.D. at Berkeley in
           95, thesis topic:  Active Storage Management for Database Systems
           \_ Could you tell me her e-mail address? -elizp
              \_ E-mail this guy:  http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~zaniolo
                 Ask him, if he doesn't have time personally, to direct
                 you to a grad student.  Be direct, brief, intelligent.
                 If you don't have any luck ask again on the motd and
                 I'll put you in touch.
2000/10/20 [Academia/GradSchool, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:19528 Activity:moderate
10/19   I'm taking an SITN NDO class. Unlike Berkeley the professor actually
        responds to you promptly. Also you can talk to them like normal
        people and you don't have to wait in line for the stupid office
        hours, or get defered to an undergrad TA like Berkeley jerk professors
        do. You can say StanfUrd for all I care, but it is simply a better
        school                                          -Cal graduate
               \_ it's a stanford class?  man, i was over at stanford
                  dropping stuff off to my stanford buddy, and damn,
                  there were babes walking all over campus!
                  mind you, mostly white chicks, a few asians here and there,
                  but damn, they were cute!!! much better looking than
                  an cal women.  i was glad i got lost looking for his damn
                  lab  =)
        \_ I've taken 5 or 6 NDO classes towards a masters degree and I've
           found the profs. to be quite friendly. They are usually interested
           in what your are doing at work and mostly answer questions promptly.
           The TA's kinda suck though, but I guess thats to be expected from
           them since they are still pretty young (younger than me that is).
           - Cal graduate who is happy with the farm
           \_ I've had the same experience at Cal with any prof I actually went
              up to. Perhaps you were just too lazy to get off your ass.
2000/10/18-19 [Academia/GradSchool, Finance/Investment] UID:19512 Activity:very high
10/17   I'm a non-CS major and want to go to grad school in CS. Do grad
        schools care what your major is? What kind of chances do I have (with
        good grades etc.)?
        \_ Yes and depends on school.
           \_ I agree.
           \_ I disagree.
              \_ Are you serious?
        \_ Expect to take a lot of undergraduate CS classes. In fact, you
           might want to start already at some other (local? less
           expensive?) school before applying.
        \_ Talk to the graduate adminisistration folks and some profs at the
           schools you'd like to attend.  In many cases, attending classes
           elsewhere first as suggested above can hurt you.
           \_ Might not hurt your wallet. Depends on the situation.
              Usually schools will want you to take remedial work with
              them, but one has to question their motives at times. Taking
              classes may not help but will *never* hurt in spite of the
              scare tactics that Top Ten programs use.
        \_ happens frequently, mostly w/ people who already have Math or
           Physics degree. My former roomate, a former astro-physics Phd
           candidate, dropped out of his Phd program got into a CS Phd
           program back in 96. I'm not saying that anyone should give it
           a try. It is for the selected few. If you don't have a good math
           or technical background or don't have good grades, don't even
           waste your time.
           \_ Ok, so I am hoping for a really good program like Berkeley or MIT
              or maybe CMU. Can anyone say if it is common here? (I'd be a
              math major, so I think I'd have the background needed.)
              --original poster
              \_ Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, and CMU are the top 4 schools.
                 Washington, UCLA, Princeton, etc are second tier.  Whether
                 or not you can get in depends on what you want to study
                 and how much effort you plan to invest.  If you just want
                 a masters degree to boost your salary, then you don't need
                 one of the top tier schools.  A master in systems from
                 Washington will do just as well.  If you're serious about
                 getting a PhD, then you should first figure out what you
                 want to study, and it had better be something you already
                 know something about.  Then you should figure out which
                 professors you want to work with at each school, and read
                 up on their current research.  Then go talk to his/her
                 grad students to get the inside scoop and get a feel for
                 your chances at being accepted.  This is just generic
                 advice about grad school.  If you want to describe your
                 situation in more detail, I can expend with more free
                 advice.
              \_ You need to do something really cool, or show solid time
                 investment and do something somewhat cool.
           \_ oh by the way, anyone can get into a 3rd tier graduate school
              like Santa Clara. So if prestige is not a big deal (e.g. if
              you're not aiming for Berkeley or MIT) then go for it.
              \_ what is considered 2nd tier?
                 \_ Santa Clerkeley
                 \_ UCLA, Princeton, Duke, for instance. Schools with a
                    developing program that's showing signs of hope but isn't
                    saturated enough with prestigious faculty.
                    \_ I would think 2nd tier are those ranked around
                       11-20.  3rd are those around 21-40.  4th, are places
                       like Santa Clara.
                           \_ don't go to santa clara.  it's just a shit
                              school for rich assholes anyhow.
                              \_ it really shouldn't even be deemed a grad
                                 school. just a masters degree purchase program
                              \_ What's wrong with being rich?  Why does being
                                 wealthy automagically make someone an asshole?
                                 Is this one of those "too much time with bh"
                                 communist things?
                                 \_ Yea, I think it should be "rich dumbasses"
                                    instead of "rich assholes".
                                        \_ They got rich by being stupid?  I'm
                                           still waiting to hear the problem
                                           with being rich and why the wealthy
                                           are somehow flawed compared to the
                                           poor.
                                           \_ Santa Clara -> rich and stupid
                                              because if you are poor, you
                                              can't afford it and if you are
                                              smart, you go to a better school.
                                              As for why they are rich in the
                                              first place: it's their dad
                                              who is rich.  As for why their
                                              who is rich.  As for why the
                                              dad is rich and yet the kid is
                                              stupid, there are two possbili-
                                              ties: (1) genes work in funny
                                              ways, (2) The dad got rich not
                                              by being smart, but by being
                                              an asshole (i.e. He is a rich
                                              smart and an asshole (i.e.
                                              asshole).  If you are both
                                              smart and an asshole (i.e. a
                                              smart asshole), you get to be
                                              really rich. eg. Billy Gates.
                                              Got it now?
                                              \_ I see.  So this is all Santa
                                                 Clara specific?  Glad you
                                                 have this all worked out.
                                                 \_ Huh?  Wasn't Santa Clara
                                                    what it was about all
                                                    along?
                                                        \_ No.
                      \_ What about USCS, SJSU?
                      \_ What about UCSC, SJSU?
                         \_ UCSC's CS program seems to be showing signs of
                            hope -- at the very least, some of their faculty
                            aren't totally anonymous. Still doesn't qualify
                            as "2nd tier" to me, but it may get there soon
                            if they work on it. (This pertinent to grad
                            school only)
                         \_ uh, shit schools for poorer folks.
                                  there's this one asshole at my company
                                  from san jose state, he's a dumbass,
                                  and my cousins went to sjsu.  mind
                                  you, they are not that dumb, just
                                  strapped for cash.  the school
                                  you go to doesn't necessarily
                                  determine how intelligent you are
                                  when you leave...i mean, i left
                                  cal, which is supposed to be a "good"
                                  school, but i have all kinds of
                                  pricks asking me "didn't you
                                  already learn this in school" type
                                  of questions at work, from place
                                  to place.  the best determiner
                                  is mainly how much you push yourself.
                                  \_ From your English and the questions those
                                     'pricks' ask you, it doesn't sound like
                                     you pushed yourself very hard, you lazy
                                     fuck.  I hope you get fired.  You got
                                     quite an attitude for someone who is
                                     obviously dead weight.
2000/10/17-18 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:19506 Activity:very high
10/16   I've noticed that my connection to soda has become more and more
        laggy.  A traceroute yields:

 4  http://GE.cory-gw.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (169.229.1.46)  1.513 ms  2.688 ms  1.718 ms
 5  http://gig8-1.snr1.CS.Berkeley.EDU (169.229.3.66)  1.878 ms  2.186 ms  3.110 ms
 6  http://soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (128.32.43.52)  73.560 ms  11.496 ms  12.904 ms

        Is this another artifact of old hardware that will be solved with Mark
        VI?
        \_ No.
                \_ The .43 subnet is shared and overloaded. Blame the XCF
                   and every prof you ever had who thought it was OK to run
                   windows and use exceed to run programs remotely from unix.
                   \_ Are they still doing that crap? -cal alum
                   \_ granted, the XCF probably has right to use the net
                      since they do something useful like host http://gimp.org
                        \_ gimp?  Who cares about gimp?  Who decides that gimp
                           is a good use of bandwidth?
                           \_ Gimp seems to me to be a bloated piece of GNU
                              crap. I haven't been able to do a single useful
                              piece of work with it. The pict editor in WP or
                              MSW blows it away. So what if its GNU/OSS/Free.
                              Sometimes commerical is better. After being a
                              die hard member of the Linux crowd, the thing
                              that I learnt was that most of these people don't
                              understand RMS's almost communist view of how
                              software should be written. -recovering Linux user
                                        \_ Ho!!! Almost COMMUNIST!  Gee if only
                                           america were almost capitalist
                                           instead of almost corporatist
                                        \_ sure it isn't more anarchist?
                                \_ uh, gimp is analagous to photoshop, not
                                   to a pict editor.  If you don't understand
                                   the difference, perhaps you're better off
                                   with an OS for morons.  -tom
                                      \_ Let me put it to you in a way that
                                         you can understand. I can use VI to
                                         edit/create pictures/photos better than
                                         GIMP. I can't believe how bloated
                                         GIMP, GTK and Gnome are. What
                                         ever happened to people writing clean
                                         high performance code that did not
                                         require every available clock cycle
                                         in order to run?
                                   \_ and anyone who uses photoshop
                                      professionally would be an idiot to
                                      try to use gimp for the same ends.
                                      Gimp is a cool piece of software for
                                      playing aorund with if you are just
                                      geeking away with it, but photoshop it
                                      is not... by a long shot.
                                      \_ GIMP isn't even as good as PS 2.0,
                                         forget about anything reasonably
                                         current.
                              \_ Communism rulez.  Too bad it doesn't work.
                                 Have you read the Communist Manifesto?
                                 You could get free sex under Communism,
                                 you know.
                                 \_ We used to call it "rape".
                                 \_ If it involves people being forced to
                                    have sex, I want no part of it.
                                 \_ Perhaps if you are a sodan male who
                                    can't get laid and can only think about
                                    getting laid (rather than freedom,
                                    liberty, prosperity, etc) then COMMUNISM
                                    is right for you.
2000/10/13 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:19468 Activity:nil
10.13   http://www.rackspace.com/goconfigure/recommended/server_freebsd.php
        \_ Why post this?  I wouldn't recommend rackspace as a colo --oj
2000/9/12 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19229 Activity:high
9/12    http://students.cs.byu.edu/~campbell/figures.htm
        Graduate School admission factors.
        \_ Interesting data, although those linear fits look way too weak
           to be reasonably meaningful
2000/8/31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19142 Activity:nil
8/30    To the GRE poster below-- emin, is that you?
2000/8/31 [Finance/Banking, Academia/GradSchool] UID:19139 Activity:very high
8/31    Are there student loans for grad school students?  If so, where
        can I get them, and what are the rates and terms?
        \_yes.
          \_ that answers the first question.  Now go to the second one
             in the series.
                \_ Dumbshit, go talk to FA or a bank.  You have no right to
                   the motd or answers expect get on.  one here No 'owes' you
                   anything.
                   \_ tone may not have been correct.  It was a simple
                      request, no expectations.  However, there might
                      be good people with good information out there.
                      \_ in many fields, grad dstudents do not have to pay
                         tuition, and get a stipend to live on, and since
                         we dont have to pay back undergrad loans while in grad
                         school, the only motivation to get loans is to
                         live extravigantly or invest illegaly. hence the
                         ingnorance of many grad students about this subject.
                                                -grad student
                         \_ Or to pay for spelling and typing lessons.
2000/8/31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:19133 Activity:very high
8/30    I'm considering taking a GRE prep course from either Princeton
        Review or Kaplan. Any thoughts on which one is better? I'm
        looking to move my score up from ~ 2000 to ~ 2200. Analytical
        was my weakest section.
            \_ dude, don't take a GRE course.  the analytical, you just
               have to practice.  it's normal to have a bad
               score on that section.  I was regularly getting
               sub-500, but I don't think that they use the GRE score
               very much for grad admission, seeing as I got in OK.
               of course, grad school itself was a nightmare...worst
               year, hands down, in my entire life.
               \_ Why?  Bastard, self-centered, slave-driving advisor?  Low
                  pay?  Incredible work expectations?  Tired, disillusioned
                  peers?
        \_ more trolls == more stupidity
        \_ analytical: practice, practice, practice.  Accurate pictures.
           in the computer version, make absolutely sure you do VERY
           well in the first few sections.  If you do the first part very
           well, you can almost just guess the last few questions (only
           in the computer version.  Draw accurate pictures.  Write down
           version the computer in.  pictures Draw accurate.  Write down
           rules.  Simplify names like "Allen, Bill, and Cassandra" to
           A, B, and C.  practice, practice, practice.
            \_ dude, don't take a GRE course.  the analytical, you just
               have to practice.  it's normal to have a bad
               score on that section.  I was regularly getting
               sub-500, but I don't think that they use the GRE score
               of course, grad school itself was a nightmare...worst
               very much for grad admission, seeing as I got in OK.
               of course, a was itself school grad nightmare...worst
               year, hands down, in my entire life.
               \_ Why?  Bastard, self-centered, slave-driving advisor?  Low
                  \_ Because grad school is just like being and undergrad but
                  pay?  Incredible work expectations?  Tired, disillusioned
                  peers?
                  \_ Because grad school is just like being an undergrad but
                     50x worse and with new forms of punishment and torture
                     added in.
              that my resume looks better. Also, I was not EE or CS as
           \_ I'm currently in industry (have been for several yrs). I
              want to get a MS (1 yr program, not ME 2 yr program) so
              resume looks better my that. Also, was or EE not CS I as
              a ug, but CS is all I have done since graduating, so I
              think that formal training would cover the blank spots in
              my training. The MS will also equate to more $'s at my
              current company (and they will prob. pay for it) so I'm
              doing it for the $'s as well.
              \_ Lots of people do this.  Have no fear.  At least, it's
                 better than a MCSE certificate for you and everyone.
                 If you become rich and want to get a Ph.D. later for even
                 better jobs, your M.S. supports your application a lot.
                    be able to pursue a Ph.D., but on my own terms, for my
                 \_ My hope is that my options (fully vested and paid for)
                    along with my savings will put me into the independently
                    wealth class by age 30 or 35, at which point I'll still
                    to able be pursue a Ph.D., my but terms own on, my for
                    own interest.
        \_ I don't understand why people would not score close to 800
           for qualitative and quantitative.  Complement it with a
           600 verbal and you are around 2200.  Is the verbal section
           your weak spot?
                    \_ I was ~ 550 on my analytical. My verbal was ~ 700
                       and my math was ~ 750. I need to improve my
                       analytical by ~ 150 points. Some minor improvement
                       in the other two sections and I'm over 2200 (my
                       goal). I think that 2200, 3.0+ and some good recs
                       should be enough to get me into a decent school.
                       I'm still going to apply to the farm and caltech,
                       but I'll probably end up going to Davis, UCSC or
                       UCSB. I don't think that I have a hope of getting
                       back into Cal.
                        \_ Why would you want to get back into Cal?
                           \_ Becuase it looks good on your resume to be
                              MS Cal.
                 \_ I don't know about you, but those frickin' puzzle problems
                    are a pain in the ass, they're really not that easy for
                    the average college student.
                        \_ Because the average college student is a dunderhead.
           \_ eye donut noe, doo u?
         \_ if you're actually interested in understanding why people do
            not score that high, i suggest you try taking a sample
            test. -ali
                        \_ for once, you come off sounding like
                           a normal person  -- the AAA
                           \_ obviously you are too dense to catch the
                              condescending riff in that comment. -ali
                                \_ Reread your own comment.
2000/6/15 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:18472 Activity:very high
6/14    Graduated from Cal this year, interested in being a professional
        TA/lecturer (teaching 61x, 9x, etc). Is that a possibility, or do
        I have to be a real grad student?
        \_ Ask bh, he would know better than anyone on soda.  You'ld have to
           be a lecturer though, TA pay is shit. (Like $3,000/year or so.)
           \_ You are wrong. If you work TA full time, the salary is an order
              of magnitude larger, circa $30,000. Still ridiculous, but much
              less so than your $3,000 figure.
           \_ The $3,000/year figure is definitely from the unclued.
        \_ Depends on exactly what you mean
           1. Full-time TA after graduating: you can do but they pay the
              undergrad rate ($12/hr still?) talk to Clancy
           2. Summer lecturer: min requirement is a bachelor's CS degree,
              not sure what the pay is. They're usually pretty desperate
              for these, talk to bh.
              \_ Interesting note: all 3 of 61ABC are going to be taught by
                 graduating seniors this summer. Sad, but true.
                \_ Why would a graduate student like me want to teach in
                   the summer again?  The pay is squat (slightly less than
                   I earn as a GSR), the hours are long (10+ hour days easily)
                   and I'm no longer being paid/have time to work on
                   my research?  -nweaver
                   \_ Well obviously you wouldn't.  Maybe for the love of
                      teaching or some such crap.  Why would a graduating
                      senior do this instead of interning at their company?
                      Maybe they can get 2nd year students to TA for the first
                      year students.
           3. Full-time lecturer (like bh/Clancy): I forget the requirements,
              but they recently (within a year) interviewed 4 folks for an
              available spot so it's unlikely anything is open. -bz
                \_ Clancy has MSCS, bh has a PhD in Education
                   \_ Clancy only had a BS/Math the last time I checked, and
                      definitely only a BS when he was hired.
                      \_ Clancy was a PhD student who completed everything
                         but his dissertation.  I don't remember where, or
                         what program though.  This may have influenced his
                         being hired.
                         \_ Stanfurd. They hired him anyway.
2000/5/29-31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:18363 Activity:very high
5/28    What's the new grad average salary for UCB EECS for BSCS and MSCS these
        days?
        \_ 50.
        \_ Making 110+ with UCB BA after 3 years.  Not in EE/CS.
           \_ i got my B.A. in public policy last year, and dont know
              how to turn on a computer, but i work for a consulting firm
              where i say the word "e-commerce"  all day, and people pay
              to sniff my asshole.  for this i get 150k plus .5 million
              in stock options, and only have to work one month a year.
                                                      \_ This is where you say
                                                         "Oh, you're joking!"
              gee, i love the New Economy.  especially when your full
              of shit.
              \_ I'm happy for you.
              \_ I doubt this, along with the story.  Must be some jealous
                 CS geek having fun with the consultant stereotype.
                 \_ [moved and formatted]  -motd format g0d
                    \_ I b0w d0wn 2 u, m0td g0d.
           \_ what's the job?
                \_ Public policy.
           \_ 3+ years != new grad
             \_ can't you tell insecurity when you see it? this little one's
                not worth it. let him go.
                \_ Don't be bitter.  You'll catch up after the economy
                   recovers.  I was making 80k 3 years ago as a new grad.
        \_ $5/hour
           \_ What's the CA-state minimum wage?
        \_ Graduated 95 with $35k (low!), but was $40k in 96, $50k in 97, $65k
           in 98, $100k in 99-2000 (changed jobs, this includes 25% bonus)
                \_ Dude, the key is changing jobs. Everytime ye change
                   yer job yer in a better position to negociate because
                   hi-tech nowadays emphasizes on BREADTH instead of DEPTH
                   skill set. If yer stuck in a job because of the options
                   they offer and the IPO they promise, yer stupid.
        \_ http://career.berkeley.edu/SchoolsEngrChem/EngrResources.stm#salary
           This is old.  How much different is it today?
           \_ it's probably grown by ~30% since then [based on hearsay]
        \_ L&S CS: $72K + bonus + stock-options + vacation until July + +++
           \_ Let me guess, EFI or Microsoft? The goal is to deprive
              real companies of CS majors by throwing $ at them.
           \_ Ack!  You made my modem hang up!!!
                \_ ~!@~~~O CARRIER
2000/5/11-12 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:18242 Activity:high
5/11    Anyone know what the application MS-TNEF refers to? Ireceived an
        attachment listed as application-MS-TNEF "file.dat". This is not
        something I've seen before.
        \_ it is what is called the Outlook virus.  It has spread to
           many computers and has now infected your inbox.
        \_ MicroSoft-Totally Needless Exchange Fodder - it's crap only
           MS Exchange & MS Outlook have any use for
        \_ Microsoft Transport Neutral Encapsulation Format.  Used for
           formatting in MS Exchange environment.
        \_ Always open and run any attachments sent to you.
2000/5/10 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:18221 Activity:nil
10. Lost the application along with the Rose lawfirm records.

9. Just got Chelsae out, why start over?

8. Hillary does not want to have to learn to bake cookies again.

7. Not worth the effort since the kid can't vote until he/she is 18.

6. Was going to but then Buddy came along and ... well...

5. Had enough servants around the Whitehouse.

4. One big baby in the family was enough.

3. All of the spare Whitehouse bedrooms were already rented out.

2. Adoption application includes fingerprints and an FBI background check.

1. Bill kept insisting on a seventeen year old girl.
2000/4/14-16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:18008 Activity:low
4/13    Are Master's program mostly 1 year?  Or 1.5 years?  What do some
        of you do during the summer?  Vacation?  Work?
        \_ MS programs take an average of 2 years, MEng takes a semester
           or two less. Some other fields have longer averages (MFA~=3 yrs).
        \_ is it worth it?
        \_ Fruity MS CS programs take 1.5 years.  Good ones take 2 years.
           Wait, that doesn't make sense does it?
2000/4/13-14 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:18002 Activity:insanely high
4/13    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/gradrank/gbcompsc.htm
        PhD Grad school rankings by US News.
        \_ that list is laughable.
        \_      Grad students slave,
                Workers rake,
                Professors drool,
                When IPO rules,
                Academia is shit,
                Industry is the best.
                        \_ Spoken like someone who doesn't know how many
                           Cal professors have cashed in on IPO's - ask
                           Prof Brewer about his half billion $ of Inktomi
                           stock, or the professors who founded Cadence,
                           Ingres, Illustra, etc. how much they made while
                           still teaching.
                           \_ if you call what Brewer did teaching.  Talk
                              some of his students who were in 169 when inktomi
                              was about to go public.  The man didn't bother
                              to show up to teach half the time.  And I don't
                              came how much inktomi was oging to be worth,
                              an attitude like that is just unprofessional.
                              \_ spoken like someone in academia. Get this
                                 right. It's not how much you know or how
                                 prestigeous you are with XYZ academic
                                 publication. It's all about money. Everything
                                 in this world is all about money. Money =
                                 pretty girl, nice car, big house, and
                                 everything you can imagine for. All that
                                 academic talk is CRAP.
                                 \_ epsilon semimoron.
                                 \_ I had prettier girls when I had less money
                                 \_ Hi paolo!
                                 \_ Nah! What's important is good health!
                                 \_ Would you rather be Bill Joy or Bill Gates?

        \_ basic and simple question: Can anyone out there take university
           research, make into a product and make money out of it?
           \_ There was an agreement between my prof and the university
              that he could take his lab's research (two product names
              in particular) and make money off it, no strings attached.
           \_ Depends on the University & the field - at UCB, the University
              makes lots of money licensing patents to industry, but
              traditionally has let anyone use UCB software for free (see BSD).
        \_ Is there a ranking for Master's programs instead of PhD's?
2000/4/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17992 Activity:low
4/12    If you haven't been in school for a while, how hard does the
        CS Subject GRE become?  What percentile do you need for a top
        tier school?  Second tier?  Third tier?
        \_ You need an application that says, "I am not a h0zer."  That
           means, you have academia people who can vouch for you, you've
           taken tangible steps toward research CS, and you were not a
           h0zer as an undergrad/working stiff.  After those
           requirements are met then you can get into a first tier with
           a 65 percentile comfortably.  When the academia people vouch
           for you they're saying "This person is not a h0zer and he or she
           reminds me of when I was young and promising."
           \_ Not that simple. -- ilyas
        \_ 1st tier=90% MINIMUM, 2nd tier=80%, 3rd tier=70%
           GRE General is also very important despite common perception.
           Also, your GPA still counts a big portion no matter how long
           you've been in the industry. That being said, delaying your
           grad school application will only make it harder for you to
           get in. Apply now when you still have the opportunity.
           \_ 3rd tier 70%?  2nd tier 80%?  Are you kidding?  Maybe if
              there are 5 schools each in your tier system.
        \_ i took GRE two years after graduation, and I actually had to
           spend a bunch of time on the subjects I hadn't taken. I don't
           think I would have had that time luxury if I had still been in
           school. Also, non-theory CS is pretty easy and you don't forget
           it once you learn it. So I studied 172 and 174 from books for a
           few months before CS GRE.  I did well.  You can too. -ali.
           \_ Electronic Behavior Control System.
           \_ this inspirational message brought to you by ali.
2000/4/12-14 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17990 Activity:kinda low
4/12    Similar to the post below-- is it a lot harder to get a Phd than
        a MS? Would it make more sense for ilyas to get a MS, then transfer
        to a Phd program?
        \_ Depends A LOT on the program.  Stanford MS == Vending Machine MS,
           put your money in, get your MS out, you don't even have to do a
           thesis.  At Berkeley, the MS program and the PhD program are almost
           identical, you just stop sooner with the MS program. -dans
           \_ do we have an answer from someone who's actually in grad skool?
           \_ The master's program is a LOT easier to get into at Berkeley,
              they don't let many people and most people with a master's are
              PhD dropouts. I'm not a master's student here but know 1/2
              people who are and that's what they generally say...
        \_ Just like you would expect, M.S. programs are easier to get into
           and good stepping stones if you're not sure or not yet
           qualified for the Ph.D. program.  If everyone loves you in the
           M.S. program they're going to want you to stay for the Ph.D., and
           then boot you out for your postdoc work.
2000/4/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:17988 Activity:moderate
4/12    Cal grad makes /. news!!
        \_ Not just a cal grad; it's spence!  -pld
        \_ XCF loser you mean.
        \_ link please?
           \_ Hmmm, just goes to prove not everyone reads slashdot
              http://www.slashdot.org
2000/4/12-13 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/Theory] UID:17980 Activity:very high
4/11    emarkp, ilyas, ali, are you guys in grad skool?
                \_ tell us about the stars ilyas!
        \_ I am not in grad school because I lack the grades and references
           to make it to a first tier school.  Thus, I am trying to get my
           foot in the door by doing something reasonably impressive in the
           industry. -- ilyas
                        \_ the stars! - Irami Osei Frimmpong
                \_ grad schools don't look so favorably upon most
                   industry experience. They want to see letters from
                   people they know in industrial research or academic
                   research (or so says Aiken...) Besides, ilya, I
                   always figured you more as the capitalist worker
                   exploitation type... hmm... ;-) -brg
                   \_ Industrial research is, unless you work at IBM, an
                      oxymoron.
                      \_ that's bullshit: at&t bell labs, hp labs, microsoft,
                         and of course the many biotech firms that have
                         been founded by research scientists with the intent
                         of doing research in a specific direction.  i won't
                         even mention all the major chemical companies with huge
                         research divisions, such as Dow.
                         \_ Okay, Microsoft research is an oxymoron.
                            \_ no, it's not.  they have hiret some badass
                               quantum computing theorists.  if you .ook
                               at the paters in phys rev a on quantum
                               information, alot of them come from microsoft
                               peopl.
                               \_ Quantum computing research is an oxymoron.
                                  And learn some damn grammar/spelling.
                            \_ Microsoft employs some of the world's best
                               AI researchers like David Heckerman, and
                               Christopher Bishop. -- ilyas
                               \_ Is that why those dancing paper clips
                                  seem so intellegent?
                   \_ Aiken is right.
                      \_ In that case I lose. -- ilyas
           \_ the industry is full of $$$!!! why the #*( would you go
              back 2 skool???
           \_ define first tier and second tier (first tier == top 5?
              second tier == the next 10 after that?)
              \_ first tier == { "Berkeley", "Stanford", "Carnegie Mellon",
                                 "MIT" }; // No particular order
                 second tier == { "Cornell", // VERY close to first tier
                                  "Brown", "Princeton", ... (there's quite
                                  a few and even if I tried to list them all,
                                  I'd miss one) };
                 -dans
                 \_ i'd say you should put Georgia Tech in there if you're
                    going to put CMU. the top 3, everyone says is Stanford,
                    Berkeley MIT.
                    \_ Georgia Tech doesn't come close to CMU or even Cornell.
                       And in reality, Stanford is considered top tier even
                       though schools like Georgia Tech, Utah, and UNC have
                       arguably better programs...
                 \_ It must be listed in alphabetical order!  Berkeley, CMU,
                    MIT, Stanfraud.  -- yuen
                        \_ What about CalTech?
        \_ why are you asking these people specifically? and you should
           sign your name if you want these people to respond.
        \_ I don't know why you're asking about me specifically.  But no, I'm in
           industry with a BA in CS.  -emarkp
           \_ well, you sound like a nweaver-wannabe and he's a grad stn
              \_ What does that even mean?  Do you mean that not using ad
                 hominem attacks makes me look like a grad student?  Small world
                 you live in isn't it?  (And sign your name.) -emarkp
2000/4/1-3 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17905 Activity:moderate
3/31   I'm sick and tired of people claiming: "only merit should
       matter", without defining merit. Does merit mean IQ? Or does it
       mean "number of publications", or "number of hours worked gratis
       for the SPCA", or perhaps "GPA+SAT+GRE+ACT/23skidoo"??? What a
       bunch of rich fucking whiners. Live in a projects area for a
       while, then come back and talk to me about merit.
        \_ Just because *you* have trouble defining it doesn't mean others do.
           Merit is your worth to the job, school, whatever.  It's what you
           contribute and "bring to the table".  Some black junky whore brings
           nothing.  She had it tough as a kid?  So what?  Life is tough all
           over.  Life is unfair.  Trying to force "fairness" into life only
           makes it unfair for those more fit.  Those who have merit suffer
           while losers advance for no reason other than to make certain
           powerful figures on the left feel good.  The same powerful figures
           who are unharmed by their ill conceived and poorly executed
           policies of arbitrary unfairness.
                \_ By your definition, it should be able to buy Merit with
                   Money. Since Money brings a lot to the table, people
                   with Money should have a lot of Merit. NOTE: I think
                   that some amount of Merit should be purchasable with
                   Money. If you have Money you should be able to buy
                   a undergrad and possibly a graduate degree (including
                   PHD) at a reputable school. What's the point of having
                   Money if you can't use it to buy the things that you
                   want.
                   \_ Hello?  Context?  Sure, if you work for a company and
                      _you_pay_them_ to work there then I guess you're bringing
                      quite a bit to the table.  Uhm, yeah, whatever.  This is
                      an incredibly stupid straw man argument.  No.  That is
                      *not* my definition of merit.  I want my VC to have cash,
                      I want my company to pay me cash, but I don't expect my
                      employees to pay me to work at my company, nor my
                      students to pay me for a grade.  Get real.  I said
                      *nothing* like that and you know it.
                   \_ Money is one thing you can bring to the table, so in
                      places where money is important, having money equals
                      having merit.  But you cannot buy ability with money,
                      and people care about ability, not degrees.  So even
                      if you buy a good looking degree, which is certainly
                      possible, you will not fool anyone in the workplace
                      for long unless you have something to back that degree
                      up.
                      \_ Hey, I think people should be able to buy whatever
                         they want with their money (including an
                         educational degree). --Stanford MSEECS student.
                         \_ Who gets the cash though?  If I can get a cut,
                            I'd have no problem with it.
        \_ Merit at a company is how well you contribute.  Merit in school
           is how well you know your subject.  Merit is NOT the colour of
           your skin, or the past history of your ethnic group.
        \_ what index do they accept at EECS these days?  Does a 4.0+
           GPA count for more than 4000 points?
           \_ No. And if you want to get into EECS, the 500 to 700
              extra points you have shouldn't matter since your SAT I&II
              + your 4000 GPA will put your over the 7700 mark. Also
              4.0 in HS means jack at Cal since almost everyone was
              4.0 in HS.
                \_ I was 3.34 in HS!   -blojo
                        \_ That explains a lot.
                   \_ man, jon, being a slacker was cool in the eighties,
                      maybe, or whenever it was Judd Nelson was cool. In
                      this day and age, cool = college superstar. get with
                      it, you aging hipster. -ali
                   \_ well, at least some of us look better than
                      these college superstars...
                        \_ "college superstar" = big fish, small bowl,
                           no car, noodle ramen diet.  -John
              \_ what are you talking about? 500 - 700 extra points? 4.0+ GPA?
                 they removed GPA weighting over 2 years ago.
        \_ merit is growing up with a silver spoon up your ass, having
           your mommie and daddie get you into good schools and giving
           you your high-achieving psychie so that you can earn their
           love. then you get to bitch about merit to kids that don't
           get the same as you did, but somehow should have done just
           as well as you even though they have to dodge bullets, drugs,
           and gangs.
           \_ Waaaah!  This troll brought to you by silver spoon silly boy on
              the motd.
        \_ Losers.  Stop bitching and go get some fucking work done.
        \_ hey, the man's got a point.
2000/3/30-31 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17895 Activity:high
3/29    derivative of fibonacci thread:
                          \_ I had a decent GPA (above 3.0 below 3.5), what
                             kind of recs did you need to get to get accepted?
                             I'm thinking of asking a former boss and a current
                             boss (prof @ stanford).
                             \_ If you are below 3.5 you LOSE.
        Here's an approximation to the real answer. PLEASE don't start a _/
        flamewar debating whether this is the Right Way For Things To Be (tm),
        because that's how it is (based on evidence from several profs and 2
        members of the grad adm committee), and that's what we have to live
        with. What the answer seems to come out to is if your GPA is below
        3.70, you need to have something exceptional on your record to have a
        high chance at top-tier CS grad (ie MIT/Cal/The Farm, and a couple
        of others). The standard incarnation of that "something exceptional"
        is a shining letter of rec from someone who is well-known in the
        academia. Most other forms of merit are largely unrecognized. Once
        again, info based on 3(?) profs and 2 non-prof grad adm committee
        members (all from Cal). -anonymous for obvious reasons
                \_ What about patents and books? I will have a couple of
                   patents and have written a few CS (mass market, not
                   text books) books. My old boss who I was going to ask
                   for a rec was one of the original programmers for UNIX.
                   \_ Patents will be noticed but not significantly; mass
                      market books are even less likely to make a major
                      impact. The rec should be more useful, provided that
                      the said individual is actually _known_ as such
                      (eg Thompson). This is only my guess... -original poster
                      \_ Damn. I was going to patent my discovery on the
                         algorithm to crack RSA in linear time. Well, I
                         guess nobody cares about that so why bother.
                         \_ doesn't shore's algorithm do that? of course no
                            known computer can implememnt shore's algorithm
                            today, but i think it's patented.
                            \_ First of all, "Shor's algorithm" is a quantum
                               algorithm, which puts it outside the
                               conventional definition of algorithm (ie TM).
                               Second of all, Shor's factorization algorithm
                               is polynomial but NOT linear. And, third
                               of all, most self-respecting people doing
                               theory in the academia do NOT patent their work.
                               \_ Most self-respecting people don't do theory.
                                  \_ Just cuz you ain't man enough...
                                      -theory dude (!ilyas)
                                      \_ My shlong's problably longer than
                                         yours.  It's not that I'm not man
                                         enough.  It's because most of theory
                                         is just inapplicable bullshit that
                                         only pretentious people with their
                                         head up their own ass care about.
                                         \_ Or perhaps you just ain't man
                                            enough.
                                      \_ I thought I was the AI dude? -- ilyas
                                         \_ tell us about the stars...
                                         \_ Yes Ilyas, you are artificially
                                            intelligent (if that).
                               \_ It's Shor, people.  And a quantum algorithm
                                  is still an algorithm.
2000/3/30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/GradSchool] UID:17888 Activity:nil
3/29    Summary of fibonacci thread:
        \_ Moo!  Moo!  I don't know the difference between matrix and scalar
           multiplication!  Moo!
           \_ And this is a Berkeley grad we are talking about.  Sad, isn't it.
              -- ilyas
              \_ The entries were unsigned.  Who was it?
                 \_ Does it matter?
              \_ Anything coming out of a Berkeley grad is more worthwhile
                 listening to than your theoretical bullshit.  Tell us
                 about the stars Ilyas.
                 \_ Wait, isn't ilyas a berkeley grad?
                    \_ Berkeley grad school doesn't accept students with
                       their head up their own ass.
                       \_ No, they don't accept people with a low GPA and no
                          academic references.  Which is why I am trying to get
                          references in the industry. -- ilyas
                       \_ umm, berkeley grad does not mean you are in grad
                          school.
        \_ can you summarize your summary? What does matrix verus scalar multo
           have to do with fibo?
        \_ O(1).
           \_ O(log(n))
                \_ O(0).  This is the special case where the problem is solved
                   by someone else before you attempt to code your solution.
                   \_ Wouldn't that be O(-1)?
2000/3/23 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17828 Activity:very high
3/22    The economy is good and I'm tempted to go to a startup for lotsa
        options. Is there any good reason why anyone should consider grad
        school?                                                 -junior
        \_ No. - Paolo
        \_ By the time you get out, the .com bubble will burst.
        \_ Ph.D allows you to do research/professor/teach
                \_ but they don't give you options (and the pay sux)
           \_ you can teach w/o a phd.  Look at mconst.  you can do
              research w/o a phd/university setting. Look at McKusick.
        \_ Recommend trying startup.  If you make it rich, and you like
                grad school, go to grad school after you vest.
                \_ ah, the get rich fast, buy a Ph.D philosophy
                   \_ Nooo, it's more like the "get rich, then get a PhD
                      without living hand-to-mouth like the stereotypical
                      grad student".  And learn how to format your motd posts,
                      dink.
        \_ Unless you *really* like being in school.  Like it really gets
           you off better than sex (if you know what that feeling is or can
           imagine it maybe), then go to grad school.  Otherwise go get a job
           and pay taxes and become an immediately productive member of
           society.
           \_ get sex in school
              \_ easy with undergrads if you are a Ph.D student
                 \_ it's easy now if you just talk to women.  Ya know,
                    not thru aol chat. - paolo
        \_ If you enjoy learning, grad school can be a great experience.
           When I graduated I worked at a startup for 1.5 years.  I loved
           the work and getting paid a decent salary was nice, but it's a
           lot different than the student life.  Anyway, after 1.5 years I
           left the startup and went to grad school at MIT.  Being away
           for a little made it a harder to go back but after making
           the initial adjustment I loved grad school.  You really learn
           a lot.  Do you remember how when you were a senior in high school
           you thought you knew it all and then you went to
           college and learned lots of amazing things?  Going to grad school
           is a similiar experience.  Also, depending on your field you
           can make some decent money consulting part-time and in the
           summer.  I'm in my second year at MIT and I currently have
           a consulting contract at $60/hour.  You probably won't
           become a millionaire, but you can live comfortably.  My advice
           is go to grad school if you love science, math, computers or
           whatever you study.  You'll live comfortably in grad school and
           still be able to get a good job when you graduate.  Working can
           also be a wonderful expereience, but its a lot less likely that
           you'll eventually go to grad school if you don't do it when you're
           young.  Email me if you have other questions. -emin
           \_ There's the difference between working people and students.  The
              student, trained by many years of schooling and still living it
              to the moment, babbles out a 10-12 page essay when a working man
              who doesn't have time for bullshit gets down to it and says very
              simply to only go if you love being a student.  Emin, thanks for
              playing the example of the student mindset.
              \_ Well, I was hoping to provide some background and reasons
                 behind the advice.  In adition I also said that you don't
                 have to live as a pauper since you can do consulting on
                 the side.  I think my response contains additional useful
                 information as well as an invitation to further discussion
                 via email.  I'll pass on the obvious flame about your post
                 providing an example of how the "working man" doesn't take
                 the time to evaluate the facts properly since I don't think
                 your post represents the average "working man".   -emin
2000/2/26 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17632 Activity:nil
2/25    if you listen quietly, you can hear the insane cackles of grad
        students about to finish their phds.  -- insane grad student
1999/12/5 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:17008 Activity:nil
12/4    How relevant is the CS GRE to getting into grad school?
        How relevant is the CS GRE to having a nice life there?

[bill gates flamebait deleted]
1999/10/15-17 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:29934 Activity:low
10/13   Tiers and degrees blah blah blah.
        \_ Take it to a newsgroup.
        \_ Take it to an academiaMUD.
                \_ First Tier PhD Alum hits you for 7!
                   You Hit First Tier PhD Alum for 5!
                   First Tier PhD Alum is dead!
                   % get all corpse
                   You find 1 copper coin(s) and 1 used torch(es) and 1 old
                   shoe and 1 First Tier PhD Alum diploma(s)!
                   % drop all.from corpse; kill self
1999/10/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:16704 Activity:insanely high
10/13   Let's say that I make it to a second tier MS CS program. Once I get
        in, how easy/common is it to transfer to a first tier Phd CS program?
        \_ Depends entirely on the quality of your research.  If your research
           is of stellar quality, you will have little problem.  But then if
           you were capable of stellar research, how did you end up in a
           second tier MS CS program? -- ilyas
           \_ You suddenly decided in your fourth year that CS was for you?
           \_ many people gain readiness for various stages in life at
              different times.  maybe this one was ready for a PhD program
              at a later time.
              \_ People don't just spontaneously become brilliant at 24.
                 You can't become "ready" for a first tier PhD program,
           \_ the crappiest president this place has seen since jsl.
                 you either have what it takes, and have a research track
                 record + grades to prove it, or not. -- ilyas
                 \_ Yeah, but you can decide to start working hard and
                    stop slacking.  You don't have to be brilliant to get
                    into a good PhD program.  - mikeym
                    \_ I maintain that if you are not brilliant, first
                       tier PhD programs are not for you: you will not help
                       your advisor, and you will not help yourself.
                       First tier PhD programs are for the future leaders of
                       science, not some mediocrity with a vanity problem,
                       who decides one day to "stop slacking" and "work hard".
                       Such a person may even be able to get into a good
                       program, like a kid sneaking in to an exclusive
                       nightclub.  But a good program will always remain for
                       him just that: an exclusive nightclub of the mind,
                       where he will always feel out of place. -- ilyas
                        \_ Wow... that's stunningly arrogant and elitist.  Who
                           says this late comer to PhD-dom isn't brilliant?
                           Who says that working hard (kissing ass) all through
                           school is a sign of brilliance?  Neither is true.
                           People who work hard are (mostly) doing so *because*
                           they're *not* brilliant and *need* to work hard to
                           stay even with their slacking but smarter peers.
                           You have this all backwards.
                           \_ If he has to "stop slacking" and "work hard" he
                              isn't, which is exactly what I was saying.  You
                              are right, what I am saying IS elitist.  Human
                              beings are not created equal.  First tier schools
                              are for first tier people.  -- ilyas
                                \_ The original poster never said he was a slack.
                                   I believe mikeym added that twist.
        \_ I'm going to gradschool for those 3 letters after my name:
           M.B.A. - paolo (who is sick of all this grad school bullshit)
                \_ But has the right attitude to be a good MBA.
        \_ Why are you getting a CS PhD from *any* school?  The only thing
           you can really do with it is teach at a second rate school.  You
           need to think more about what you plan to do with it than how to
           get it.  You sure as hell won't make more money with it.
                \_ another example where people reply WITHOUT reading the
                   original post. The guy said he wanted to go to
                   FIRST TIER Phd program. FUCKIN MORON.
                   \_ Hypocrite.  I was questioning the value of *any* PhD.
                      *You* need to read the post you're replying to before
                      *you* reply.  You are a complete fucking idiot.  First
                      Tier vs. Second Tier has nothing to do with what *I*
                      was saying.  You are lower than low.  Dumber than dumb.
                      To attack someone for not reading when you haven't read
                      what you're attacking makes you a hypocrite of the lowest
                      order.  I lack the words to describe how completely and
                      utterly S-T-U-P-I-D you are.  Return your diploma to
                      the registrar's office immediately.
                      \_ Feel better now that you got that off your chest?
                        \_ I always feel better after correcting a dumb
                           shit for brains hypocritical asshole.  Yes, thanks.
                           If I had my giant Thesaurus here, I'd have felt
                           that much better, but it was sufficient as it was.
                           \_ If you're interested in money only, a PhD would
                              not be the best. But I'd wager they could
                              do 10X the things you can do. The only things
                              undergrads are really armed with is the 170
                              series. A PhD spends his whole life in 170
                              style concepts, and when they get out to
                              go work, they innovate, not copy, IMO.
                                \_ True if I was a coder.  Since I'm not, and
                                   I have worked closely with several PhD's, I
                                   feel pretty secure saying that a PhD can
                                   *not* do what I do.  No, I can't do what
                                   they can do either but frankly I found 170
                                   really really really dull so I'm ok with
                                   that.
                                \_ When I can actually manage to get enough
                                   sleep, 170 makes sense and is kind of cool.
                                   I wish there were some way to take 170 and
                                   average a reasonable amount of sleep.
                                        -- a current 170 hoser
1999/9/29-10/1 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:16628 Activity:high
9.29    I'm taking the mcat.  Any advice? - paolo
        \_ Yes, take courses in chemistry, biology, and possibly
           organic chemistry as well.  --PeterM
        \_ use protection
        \_ don't do any hallucinogenics immediately before you take the
           exam
        \_ Just curious, but do a lot of CSUAers take the MCAT?
           \_ I think it's just fashionable for CSUAers to take
              random standardized tests.  And what can be more prestigious
              than the MCAT, other than The Bar?
              \_ CFA Level 3
                 \_ Qu'est-ce que c'est?
              \_ TOEFL
              \_ Kahan's finals
                 \_ JAVA WILL DESTROY THE WORLD!!! USE MY BORNEO!- kahan
        \_ From my friend who took it: get lots of rest the nite before.
           This isn't like a final which you can cram for.
        \_ Don't bonk.  Bring a snack for the break.
        \_ Try to sleep early, and unplug your phone.  Bring snacks, but don't
           eat too much at lunch, to avoid the insulin shock.  In between breaks
           try to avoid talking to friends, they'll just add to the stress and
           reduce your concentration.  Good luck!
        \_ masturbate during the test...
                \_ Do not do this.  This activity is specifically banned at
                   the MCAT exam.  The LSAT and GRE do not specifically ban
                   this during exams, though.
1999/7/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:16147 Activity:nil
7/15    MS/Bristol flamebait deleted.
1999/6/21-22 [Academia/GradSchool, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:16000 Activity:very high
6/21    Divx, Beta (tape), OS/2, etc are all failures form the beginning.
        What are other examples of failed formats?
        \_ motd postings like this which are obvious troll attempts.
        \_ DOS, Windows
                \_ No, I think we all *wish* it failed.
                \_ NNNNNN!!!!  DOS was a fantastic success.  So was windows.
        \_ Minidisc, DCC cassettes, VCDs, CDi, Cable Modems, Vanilla Ice,
           (Lynx/GameGear/TurboExpress), Sega 32x, Alcohol-free college
           campuses, XL Spandex, men's hairpieces.
        \_ American Cars
                \_ Keep telling yourself that the next time a Corvette
                   passes your loud exhausted Honda wanna be ass.  -ax
                   \_ and promptly runs outta gas.
                        \_ Anyone who can afford a corvette can afford a tank
                           of gas.  don't be bitter Mr. Econbox-Driver.
                           \_ I've driven a Corvette.  You hit the accelerator,
                              and the gas gauge dips.  You gotta admit, a
                              CRX gets a lot more miles in 10 gallons than
                              a Corvette in 16, unless the driver thinks it's
                              a Porsche (why *do* CRX drivers do that?)
           killed for non-technology related reasons.
        \_ Beta is very much alive, albeit not in the consumer market.
           The television / media industry still extensively uses it.
           And last I checked, OS/2 is still breathing, if not 2 heartbeats
           a minute.
           \_ isn't there a difference between Betmax and Betacam?
              Besides, ED-Beta is to Betamax like SVHS is to VHS.
           \_ Long's Drugs in Alameda still sells blank Beta tapes.  -- yuen
        \_ OS2 is also alive, but not in the consumer market.  You're confused.
           It was certainly not a failure at the beginning and isn't a failure
           today.  It's still a better OS than anything MS made.  It was
           killed for non-technology related reasons.
           \_ That is correct, OS/2 is a huge seller in the embedded market.
              Most of the time when you go to an ATM machine or use voice
              mail at work, you are using OS/2... -SMurF
                        \_IBM doesn't even use OS/2, at least at Almaden.
                                      for thinking it.
                          I think this is the definition of dead, at least
                          in this case.
                                \_ No it doesn't define anything.  IBM isn't
                                   the same kind of business that's using OS2.
                                   Certainly a single site's lack of use means
                                   nothing.  It's a *HUGE* company.
                           \_ I worked at Almaden in 1991 and I was using OS/2
                              2.0.  Can't believe it's been dropped.  BTW
                              MS-owned hotmail doesn't use MS web server
                              either.  Is MS web server dead?  -- yuen
                        \_ Sorry to burst your bubble, but OS/2 1.0 was made
                           jointly by IBM & MS, before MS pulled out to work
                           on NT instead.
                           \_ You're not bursting anything.  Why do you think
                              you're clever posting known and ancient info
                              that isn't relevent?  Why the need to feel smart?
                                \_ It was claimed it was better than anything
                                   MS made, but it was made by MS, therefore
                                   you are claiming it is better than itself?
                                   \_ Uh oh, wannabe deep thinking philosopher
                                      on the prowl!  Look out!  MS didn't make
                                      it.  An IBM/MS product is not a MS
                                      product.  OS2 v1.0 is not the version in
                                      use today.  v2.x is which had even less
                                      to do with MS, namely nothing of note.
                                      MS has yet to develop anything original
                                      in their corporate history.  The idea
                                      that MS has *made* anything is a
                                      laughable lie.  Be ashamed of yourself
                                      for thinking it.  How much M$ do you
                                      own?  It's clouding your judgement.
                                      \_ You probably think Shakespeare never
                                         *made* anything either, huh?
                                        \_ Hahahhahah You think BG is
                                           Shakespeare?  My God!  You *are*
                                           incredibly stupid!
                                        \_ "Bob" was original.  Damn stupid,
                                            but still original.
                                          \_ Ok, you got me.  MS made Bob. I
                                             retract previous statements about
                                             total lack of MS creativity.  MS
                                             made Bob.  Can't argue with that.
                                            \_ how does "Bob" run on today's
                                               faster/bigger hardware?  (it
                                               was _Mrs_ Gates' project, btw)
        \_ Ford Edsel.  (Okay - it's not a "format", but then neither is OS/2)
1999/3/3 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15523 Activity:very high
3/3     Just curious, what is a decent salary for BS/2yr/UNIX/NT
        programmer??  How much would getting MS add?? Thanks
        \_ About $12 an hour.  Half that with an MS b/c you must be stupid
           to think that an MS makes you a better coder.
        \_ Most co.'s look to your salary history to determine how much
           they're going to get screwed for.  You need to back up an MS
           with solid job references.  Otherwise mostly the clueless will
           hire you and you won't like your job as much.  Having the CS BS
           and some experience will get you in the door -- mostly they're
           trying to weed out all the weirdos at the interview. $50-60K.
           $58-75K w/MS.
           $58-75K w/Masters.
           \_ $50-60k? Is this for a new CS BS grad? What about
              new EECS BS grads, since the avg starting base is $40-$50k
              or is this avg statistic just not true?
              \_ There is no CS BS degree at Berkeley. You get an AB in CS.
                 \_ Try a BA.
        \_ Master of Science or Macrosift?
1999/2/10-11 [Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:15394 Activity:nil
2/9     If an X application doesn't have the -ncols option, how do I limit
        the number of colors for it? Can I do something like
        /usr/local/bin/setcolor +35 <application that takes up a lot of color>
1999/2/9-10 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15381 Activity:kinda low
2/8     Last year I applied for CMU graduate school. Just today, a professor
        left me a message and wanted to talk. Do people call professors in the
        East Coast by their first name (like UCB) or last name? Thanks.
        \_ Congrats!  I don't know the answer, but if I were you, I'd play
           safe and call him "Professor <last name>".  -- yuen
                \_ Whoah whoah, don't congratulate me yet! As far as I'm
                   concerned, he could be making a rejection call. I know, bcuz
                   for undergrad, I actually got a rejection call instead of a
                   small envelope.                      -industry sux person
        \_ Last name, until you actually go there and are in their research
           groups.
           \_ Title and last name, until they ask you to address them
              otherwise -kube
1999/1/28-29 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15316 Activity:nil
1/28    Lately motd seems to have a lot of personal attacks on poor graduate
        student, professors, and other intellectuals. Yes, they have a
        miserable life, they do not know how to enjoy life, and they do
        not understand the meaning and value of money+power-- things that
        you industry people take for granted. However, without these sorry
        ass graduate students/professors/intellectuals, there wouldn't be
        RSA/DES, no e-commerce, no internet, no power computing, NOTHING. So
        the next time you see one of these sorry ass poor intellectuals
        begging you for food, remember this: Without these shitheads, you
        wouldn't be in this industry                    -poor grad student
        \_ you're not a real grad student.  You're the same fucker who
           is getting wasted in industry bitching about GREs.  Real grad
           students wouldn't bitch in this self-deprecating manner.  Get
           real, "no understanding of money+power"?  Fuck you.  Brewer and
           Inktomi proves you wrong.  The sooner you realize that you're a
           cog in industry and you BELONG there the happier you'll be.
        \_ That's right, we all know businesses don't have R&D depts,
                troller.
1999/1/26-27 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15300 Activity:very high
1/26    To the guy who posted about CS GRE Subject test, here are more
        number for you. Go figure. Number of CS GRE Subject test takers in:
        1990: 18000
        1996: 13000
        1998: 11000
        Figures are from the 1990-1991, 1996-1997, and 1998-1999 ETS handout
        \_ Conclusion: The really dumb and/or greedy students that would do
           poorly in graduate school are now lured by the hot industry. At the
           same time, the highly academically oriented students remain in
           school. Less dumb people, same number of smart people taking GRE=
           huge change in scoring system.
                \_ You're a real fucked up loser.  You must be some dumb
                   shit getting wasted in industry thinking that "all the
                   smart people go to grad school!"  If yer so smart you
                   would have taking the GRE, applied, and gotten in already.
                   Instead you get on the motd and BITCH about industry
                   vs grad school.  Fucking loser.  The "smart people in
                   grad school" aren't the ones bitching about GREs.  Only
                   the fucking loser wanna-be grad students bitch and moan
                   like you.

                   like you.  "I don't belong here, I wanna be with the
                   smart people Ph.D. students in grad school!"  Well, how
                   about shutting up and fucking apply for one instead of
                   bitching here about it?  Can't get a high enough GRE?
                   Gee, guess what?  YOU AREN'T SMART ENOUGH.  There's nothing
                   wrong with GREs, there's everything wrong with a dumb shit
                   under the impression that he can be a hotshot grad student
                   and the GRE test is keeping him down.  Fucking idiot.
                   \_ assholes like you are an outstanding arguement for
                      not going to grad school.  I dont think GRE scores
                      mean much, but i can guess your verbal score.
                   \_ Um, in other words, you agree with the conclusion.
                   \_ High GRE != smart.  Low GRE != dumb.
                      Not take GRE != greedy.  Enroll in basic logic course.
           \_ Conclusion: your personal biases and experiences have left you
              in a little shell that prevents you from understanding that
              Grad School is not the high point of a career.  It's simply
              another option for those who are too afraid to do something
              with their lives other than kiss some Prof's fat ass.  Had a
              pot sticker lately?
           \_ speaking of dumb people, mabye you should look more
              carefully at those numbers; there really is not a
              significant enough change there to draw any conclusions,
              unless of course they were conclusions you were planning
              to draw anyway.
                \_ Huh?  16000 = 11000 * 61%....  Seems significant...
                   \_ yes, but the previous post was concerning
                      changes in the correlation between score and
                      percentile, and for the higher percentiles, the
                      changes were negligible given the error in
                      scores and the extent to which ETS tweaks those
                      correlations.
                   \_ Check your math, buddy.
                \_ YO!  CLUE TIME!  The numbers of test takers are MEANINGLESS
                   since you have NO IDEA how many _POTENTIAL_ test takers
                   there were for each year.  Sheesh!  Take Stat2 and try
                   again.
           \_ Conclusion 2:  same number of smart people wasting time in
              school while the marketing is booming.
                \_ It is funny that greedy people value money more than
                   anything. To these people, money is EVERYTHING.
                   \_ So your mommy and daddy pay your rent so you can get
                      this really neato ivory tower education and snub your
                      nose at the people who actually _do_ something?
                   \_ Without money, can't enjoy life like traveling, good
                      food, etc.
                   under (and thrive) the more flexible you are. -nick
                      \_ And expensive hookers
                          \_ Na.  You go for movie stars.
                          \_ Yer mom is better.
                \_ you can't beat the flexibility of being a student
                    \_ Oh yeah.  I really enjoyed the flexiblity being in
                       soda hall and pulling those all-nighters.
                       \_ followed by two weeks of sitting on your ass getting
                          high and sleeping till 3pm.
                       \_ Being a grad student is nothing like being an
                          undergrad.  You get to choose if you want to
                          pull all-nighters.
                    \_ Being a student is flexible?  Uhm, yeah, let's see
                       I can afford to eat at Bongo Burger or Oscar's
                       tonight, but not eat _and_ see a matinee the next
                       day and I live in a crime ridden slum.  You have a
                       funny idea of flexible.
                       \_ hmm, I know lots of grad students who live in nice
                          areas and seem to have enough money to do quite a
                          bit.  Oh wait.  They know how to do things like
                          cook their own food.  Oh and how to pay attention
                          to sometihng like a budget.  Just cause you aren't
                          grossly overpaid doesn't mean you can't be flexible.
                          \_ Yes, by budgeting, I can pay for things I don't
                             have enough money to buy.  Budgeting will fix
                             everything.  A budget will create money from
                             nothing.  A budget will feed my children and pay
                             my mortgage.  I don't need money, just a budget.
                             Yo, wake up.  You can _survive_ by eating rice
                             and pasta and watching every penny, but that is
                             certainly _not_ flexible.  Hope your budget makes
                             you feel better though.  Honestly.
                \_ why does flexibility have anything to do with money?
                   I would think that the more constraints you live
                   under (and thrive) the more flexible you are.-nick (grad)
                   \_ You're confusing two different meanings of the word.
                      My version of flexible means the world flexes for me.
                      In your version, you flex for the world.
                      My version: I go to Tahiti for a month and enjoy it and
                      don't even bother to budget.
                      Your version: You learn to enjoy getting postcards from
                      your industry friends who went to Tahiti.
                      We're both flexible but I get a better tan.  :-)
1999/1/25-26 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15287 Activity:very high
1/25    Computer Science Subject Test, GRE Standard:
        1996, 80 questions                1998, 70 questions
        ------------------                ------------------
        40/80 = 720, 81% percentile       35/70 = 680, 56% percentile
        46/80 = 760, 90% percentile       53/70 = 800, 90% percentile
        58/80 = 850, 99% percentile       64/70 = 860, 99% percentile
        Can someone PLEASE explain what is going on?
                                             -Mr. Industry Is For Dumb People
        \_ Industry is hot, more people want to study CS, more competition
        \_ first of all, subject tests are scored out of 990, so except
           for the lower percentiles these are comparable...also every
           time ETS rewrites the test they fuck with the percentiles,
           which they are very capable of tweaking arbitrarily.  math
           is much smaller than cs, but a 940 on math is only a low 60th
           percentile.  in conclusion, ETS is a bunch of useless assholes,
           and the material generated by ETS is typical that generated by
           assholes.
           \_ well said! Damn MF at ETS should be shot
           \_ i concur.  it should be <DEAD>ets.com<DEAD> not http://ets.org
                \_ i calculated that from start to finish i paid about
                   $500 to ETS during the graduate addmissions process.
                   All for a test scored by a scantron. that's not
                   business, it's extortion.
                   \_ ets.mil
                \_ I know the supposed differences btwn .com & .org. And I
                 know you're restricted from getting domain names like .edu
                 or .mil, etc if you're not really a .edu or .mil. So why is
                 it there's not more heavy restrictions on .com? I mean,
                 shouldn't it be http://www.lovehewitt.org not http://www.lovehewitt.com
                 \_ just like http://autobahn.org is realy a company
                \_ who cares?
                   \_ obviously not you.
                \_ because NSI doesn't give a shit anymore and have made the
                   *only* requirement for a domain in the .{com,net,org} TLD's
                   the $70 it takes to register a domain. -ERic
        \_ The longer you are out of school, the dumber (academic wise) you
           become.
           \_ Yeah, I really feel this way now that I've been out for 5 1/2
              years.  -- yuen
1998/12/16 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:15098 Activity:nil
12/15   On the grad school application, when they ask for your best GRE score
        for verbal, quant., analytical, do they want the best score for EACH
        individual section (which could be taken at different times), or the
        best scores in one test? Thanks.
        \_ Unless they specify otherwise, give your best GRE score for each.
           Read the fine print.
1998/9/14-15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:14595 Activity:high
9/14    Anybody have a copy of Word 2 or 6 for win 3.1 they are not using?
        It's not for me, so I don't wanna be hearing all thos anti-MS crap.
        - johndkim
        \_ anti-MS crap is an oxymoron.  MS crap on the otherhand...
        \_ Where do you want to go today?
1998/8/18 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Academia/GradSchool] UID:14479 Activity:nil
8/17    "I had sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, but I did not impale."
        \_"I did not have sex with Ms. Lewinsky.  We made love."
1998/4/15-16 [Reference/BayArea, Academia/Berkeley, Academia/GradSchool] UID:13964 Activity:kinda low 52%like:13959
4/15    Where can I find stat/info on the GPA average of the entire Berkeley
        campus (ugrad/grad) and comparisons of GPA w/other schools that
        either have same or different grading scales? Thanks.
        \_ i don't know about the gpa average, but i've heard that the
           curve for some of the more impacted classes are as vicious
           here as anywhere else
                \-"as vicious"? berkeley, after UChi, MIT, and CalTech probably
                has about the hardest grading around. --psb
                  \_ CalTech?  Gimme a break.  I know some people who have
                     various cs/engineering type degrees from there who don't
                     stand a chance here.  They'd be lucky to figure out how
                     their phone worked to call TeleBears.
                \_ Sure, everyone has rumors from these schools, but what are
                   some actual numbers to prove it, psb boy???
                        \-grad schools have implicit modifiers for GPAs from
                        various schools. they know a 3.6 at berkeley > 3.6 at
                        the 'fraud. unfortuantely some people with less exp.
                        in looking at lots of grades and correlating to perf
                        dont realize this and just go with the higher gpa.
                        i have visited all of the schools in question, i know
                        what textbooks they use in depts i am familiar with,
                        i know a lot of people from all except UChi so i think
                        i know what i am talking about here.
                        people also look at the department. i think mass comm
                        and "human biodynamics" have the highest GPAs here.
                        i guess that is where all the smart people are, as
                        opposed to say physics. --psb
                        \_ "Human Biodynamics" is no longer a department or
                            major; it has been split into Phys Ed and the
                            actual human biodynamics stuff is now part of
                            Integrative Biology.  -tom
           \_ Side question: after Stanfurd brought back the D and F grades
              a couple years ago, has overall GPA dropped from 3.5?
                \_ You can still drop after the final so I doubt the avg
                   GPA dropped noticeably.  "I was too stoned to drop after
                   the final!  Can I drop now?"  - Farm stoner 6 months later
        \_ From all the discussions, I can just tell you that in real life
           there is no single equation that schools use. It is mostly based on
           "feeling", "intuition", and "historical reputation". As with all
           things in life, yes, this is totally unfair.
                \-that isnt the case. some institutions have the knowledge
                and incentive to correlate f(GPA,school)->clverness-in-reality,
                others are either lacking in the info, and yet others lack
                the incentive. --psb
1998/4/9 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:13925 Activity:very high
4/8     EMERGENCY QUESTION: Let's say I got a D last semester, but still can
        graduate. Then this semester I retake it through extension, and got
        a good grade. Which grade will grad schools like Stanford/UCLA look
        at? THANKS!!!
        \_ If you are CS, both of these schools are shitty.  You are better
           off attacking the job market since the job market is still pretty
           strong for CS jobs.  Don't waste your time in grad school now.
           CS is the kind of field that is constantly changing at a rapid
           pace.  The stuff you learn in grad school may not be in use by
           time you finish.
        \_ Grad schools will look at both grades.  They often ask for a
           a statement explaining D's, F's, being on academic probation,
           etc.
           \_ That's rich isn't it? "Well, I was fucked up on heroin
              that semester?" Do they want you to explain your A's
              also? "Some guy in my dorm took my exams for me." --dim
        \_ What does it matter? Apply. You'll either be accepted or you
           won't, and the decision may not even have anything to do with
           that class. I don't understand the urgency of this question.
           Quit worrying and JUST DO IT. --dim
        \_ Depends on your situation! assume you have a 3.0000 GPA, and assume
           that you have taken exactly 120 units.
           So if you get a D(1) the first time, your GPA drops from 3.000 to:
                ((120*3)+1)/124 = 2.91 GPA
                \_ ((120*3)+4*1)/124
           But if you get a D(1) the first time and a C(2) the second time,
           your GPA is:
                ((120*3)+1+2)/128 = 2.84 GPA
                \_ ((120*3)+4*(1+2))/128
           The trick here is to evaluate, and see whether it is a good idea to
           send in your extension grade in or not.
           \_ Last I checked (in L&S at least), the new grade *replaced*
              the old grade for GPA, though both grades show up on the
              transcript.  Also, remember guys that the D was part of the
              original GPA calculation.
              ((120*3)+(-1 + 2)*4)/124 = 2.94 GPA
           \_ Uhm, this isn't HS anymore kiddo.  If the difference between
              getting in or not was a tiny bit of GPA you don't belong there
              anyway.  Anyway, who wants to go to that kind of school?  A
              real school will look at your achievements, statement of
              purpose, and letters of rec.  If you don't have any of those
              or your statement of purpose is lame, it doesn't matter what
              your GPA is.  Many departments don't even look at your GPA,
              just so long as you graduated.  -been there, done that
                \_ Not true for computer science d00d.
                \_ Many departments will only look at applicants whose
                   GPAs are above a certain cutoff, and toss out most of
                   the apps that don't meet that cutoff mark.
                   \_ look at != accept
                    \_ But will they accept applications they don't even
                       look at?
        \_ Jeez, just get a "Ph.D. by mail" from one of those places that
           advertises in the back of newspapers.  Suitable for framing.
           You can say, "I have a Ph.D.!" -- nobody will ever know.
           Quit worrying.
           \_ Just like Derek Smart
1998/2/15 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:13675 Activity:nil
2/13    MS drone idiocy expunged.
1996/11/13 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Academia/GradSchool, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:32000 Activity:nil
11/12   Okay, I'm a dork.  Where're we supposed to download MSIE to get
        MS to donate $1 to the tech museum?  --tabloyd
        \_ MS has a horrible web site for low bandwidth connections.  I
         wasted several hours trying to get it, and only eventually got a
         version that wouldn't install.  If anyone has IE 3.0 for 3.1,
         could I please get a copy?  (Didn't have these problems
         w/Netscape...) -cathyg
         \_ Funny, I managed to download Netscape 3.01 and have it
            not do everything right.  Guess their implementation of
            the Java Virtual Machine just won't go with i386-unknown-bsd
            architectures.  -- tmonroe
            \_ Oh, it's buggy, but at least it installed. -cathyg
            \_ I put a copy in /tmp/msie301mnt.exe,mailnews.exe,amov4ie.exe
              - Gabe
              \_ uh, you guys don't get it...the idea is to make MS spend
          dough, not to actually use their product
         \_that's why I want the URL!  -- tabloyd
           \_ I looked at //microsoft.com, but unless you have a
              t1 and a sophisticated browser, it's not worth
              your time [maybe for 95, but not for 3.1] -cathyg
1993/4/19 [Recreation/Food, Industry/Jobs, Academia/GradSchool] UID:31278 Activity:nil
4/18    Xxxx xxxx food? Xxxx to win an XX calculator? Xxxx to
        here from an XXX recruiter? Xxxx to hear about grad school.
        Then come to XXXXX's X-XXX. This thursday. See ~xxxxx/public/spac.
2018/06/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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