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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/9/6-12 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:44287 Activity:nil
9/6     Papa's got a brand new bag^H^H^H^H book.  On Algorithms.  For the
        time being, a free download.
        \_ I think I just had an Umesh Moment[tm]
           \- Momento Umesh:
              BTW, have you read Papadimitriou's p0rn book?
              \_ Wow, where's that from?  And re: p0rn... no... urlP
           \- what is an Umesh Moment?
              \_ I believe the term was coined after ngeci bowman admitted to
                 having a strange, inexplicable, momentary crush on Vazirani,
                 which she described as an "umesh moment"  This must have been,
                 if the politburo minutes are to be believed, somewhere around
                 '97 --dbushong
                 \_ That's obscure, but who is Umesh, and why would he
                    have such a moment?  pp is saying they had a momentary
                    inexplicable crush on the book?
                    \_ Umesh Vazarani was our CS170 co-prof, along with
                    \_ Umesh Vazirani was our CS170 co-prof, along with
                       Christos Papadimitriou --dbushong
                       \- well in an odd coincidence then, at
                          cheeseboard i just ran into an associate
                          of mine who had "many umesh moments" [used
                          to traffic with him ... may still occasionally].
                          maybe your friend will accept umesh's brother
                          as a substitute ... they are in the same field.
        \_ There's a mistake on page 11 of the book. Movable type was invented
           in China 400 years before Gutenberg and the metal printing press
           was developed in Korea a little while later (still before 1400).
           - ciyer
           \_ Did they publicize their results in Europe? No? Then bully for
              \_ You're in idiot.  Steve Guttenberg never invented shit.
              \_ You're an idiot.  Steve Guttenberg never invented shit.
                 \_ That's not what the Stonecutters told me.
                 \_ Dude! But he was in Police Academy! Surely he invented
                    \_ He invented his own Australian accent:
           \_ Clearly only the western inventors count.
2006/8/23-26 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:44110 Activity:nil
8/23    I've been reading this background info on one this year's Field's
        Medal winners Terence Tao:
        I'm really suprised that this guy turned out to be a productive adult.
        I read another study somewhere that tracked "gifted children" through
        adulthood and a large percentage of them turned out to be normal
        adults with normal jobs.  E.g., Marilyn vos Savant writes a newpaper
        column.  They still have high IQs but they're not doing extraordinary
        things.  Very interesting.
        \_ So what. I was categorized as a child prodigy and got sent to the
           magnet school and look what I'm doing now, I'm a fucking nobody
           posting on the fucking motd. Everyone expected me to do something
           great but now I'm just a fucking motd junkie. Fuck!!!
           great but now I'm just a fucking motd junkie. On the other hand
           half of my stupid friends who copied homework from me and cheated
           in cs150 152 162 170 are now rich from the dot-com days and
           semi-retired and all I've accomplished is posting stupid rants
           on motd. FUCK!!!
           \- i was talking to a mathematician here who said one of TTAOs
              brothers works for GOOG and the other one is austistic.
              MVosS hasnt worked on any "hard problems" has she? ... I mean
              answering questions from random readers doesnt mean much.
              Anyway, it owuld be interesting to see TTAO vs RBARTON:
              \_ MVosS is often wrong on those questions as well.  I'm
                 really not sure why she's famous.
                 \- what was she wrong about except the famous monty hall
                    fiasco? [that was her, right?]
                    \_ She was actually right on the Monty Hall question.  I
                       was never that impressed when I read her column, and
                       a remember one question about 1/2 chickens producing
                       1/2 eggs that she gave the wrong answer to.  I don't
                       keep around a list of offenses though.
              \- BTW, the article in he latest issue of the NYker on
                 THE POINCARE by Sylvia Nasar [the Beutiful Mind author]
                 and some other dude is really interesting ... Berkeley
                 features reasonably prominently. The protagostists are:
                 --PERELMAN: weird russian dude
                 --HAMILTON: american sex fiend mathematician ... math's
                             version of Kary Mulins
                 --YAU: evil chinese mathematcian [of Calabi-Yau fame]
2006/2/20-23 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:41933 Activity:low
2/20    Any recommendations on digital logic design books that would be
        appropriate for someone with solid system software background
        but no HW experience wanting to do FPGA work?  Anyone used the
        forge compiler? --jwm
        \_ What does CS150 use?
        \_ How well do you know CS150?  If you're up on that, then you just
           need a good VHDL or Verilog book.
           \_ Never took 150, I'm completely ignorant on the subject. --jwm
            \_ I never took it, I have about 0 knowledge in this area. --jwm
               \_ When I was in undergrad (92-96), cs150 was a requiredement
                  for both EECS (all options) and L&S CS.
                  \_ It was a requirement for L&S at that time, but not for
                     EECS.  I graduated from EECS in 1996, and I didn't take
                     CS150 either.  Lots of people assumed that it was
                     required without actually reading the degree
                 \_ Not everyone on the motd is/was in Berkeley CS.
               \_ It's going to be pretty difficult without 150-type knowledge.
                  You can skip a lot of things, but you need to learn how state
                  machines map into logic and timing analysis.  Yeah, and RAMs
                  too.  Then you need to learn Verilog or VHDL.  That's mostly
                  syntactical sugar, so it shouldn't be a big deal.  Then you
                  need to learn how your logic maps into an FPGA, though this
                  shouldn't be hard if you're doing non-complicated things.
                  Unfortunately, I have no books to recommend, since my texts
                  that apply to this are about 20 years old.  Mail me if you
                  have more specific questions.  Do you want to do FPGAs
                  professionally or just for some random project?  -tse
                  \- I am trying to become a Critical Intel Asset. --op
2006/2/9 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:41784 Activity:nil
2/9     Hello, I'm a disillusioned almost-40 year old engineer. I used
        to play netrek all the time. The closest I was with a woman
        was when my lab TA crouched down to type over my shoulder. I got
        95/100 on my 60a proj3 thanks to her. She smelled nice and at the
        time I almost kissed her. I miss being a student. I miss CAR CDR
        and the meta circular evaluator. I miss my TA. She smelled nice.
        15 years later, I'm still a virgin. I spend most of my life in
        my cubicle typing on the fucking motd. I am depressed. Meeting
        99 virgins girls in heaven must be less painful than real life.
        \_ Hi troll!
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/1/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:41234 Activity:moderate
1/4     Dear sodans. What do you do with your old notes, hw, & exams from
        math 1a/1b/50a/50b/55, physics 7a/b/c, stat 1XX, EE40/42,
        chem 1a/1b/8, cs60a/b/c, cs150/152/162/164/170/172/174/184/186?
        I have about 5 big boxes of these things in the garage and I really
        need space. I'm thinking about throwing them out. However, after
        looking at all the impressive stuff I wrote that I now no longer
        understand, I cannot get myself to throw them away, and at any rate
        there is always a remote possibility that I'll have to know something
        about physics/math in the future. As a working professional who
        has not touched anything remotely academic for over a decade,
        I'll most likely never use any of those stuff again nor will I
        ever review them. However, I just can't get myself to throw them
        away. What do you guys do with your boxes of old notes, hw, & exams?
        \_ I generally made that decision right at the end of the class,
           and stuck with that decision.  For useful classes, I still have
           the notes 8 years later, and sometimes use those notes.  For
           retarded, non-useful classes, I threw them out after the final.
           I still have my notebooks from my junior high math class from 16
           years ago, and I find that I take them out and look at them about
           once a year when my friends from junior high come over and we're
           reminiscing about our math class.
        \_ I have a couple of small boxes of old stuff like that.  Whenever I
           need to clean it up, I actually go through some of it, and decide
           item-by-item what might have future nostalgia value (or reference
           value) and what won't.  (That math homework you looked at and
           thought "wow, I can't even read this anymore": keep it.  The ten
           others from the same semester that aren't quite as impressive:
           probably not necessary.)  I keep anything I'm not sure about,
           or anything I feel bad about throwing away, but I still end up
           throwing out 3/4 of whatever I go through.
           need to clean it up, I actually go through it, and decide item-by-
           item what might have future nostalgia value (or reference value)
           and what won't.  (That math homework you looked at and thought
           "wow, I can't even read this anymore": keep it.  The ten others
           from the same semester that aren't quite as impressive: probably
           not necessary.)  I keep anything I'm not sure about, or anything
           I feel bad about throwing away, but I still end up throwing out
           3/4 of whatever I go through.
        \_ I recycled my college stuff years ago. I never really saw the
           point of keeping that stuff around. --ranga
           \_ agreed.
        \_ keep the basic math stuff.
        \_ ha ha ha - I look across the room, and see a similar set of 4
           big boxes in the closet :)  I've often wondered the same thing,
           will I ever use these again?  Do I really want to lug them
           around forever?  How much would it cost to pay someone to just
           scan them all in for me ;)
        \_ Haha! I have the same problem. My quantum mechanics homework
           especially scares me. I have no idea how I managed to do that.
           I am not sure that stuff has any value. I sometimes go through
           my texts, but I doubt you'll ever have use for the homework
           again except as a memento. Even if you take a similar class
           would you really pull it out again? I wouldn't.
           \- I recently threw away maybe 200lbs of stuff.
              I think a useful way to motivate yourself is to think
              "am I going to throw this out eventually?" ... if so,
              just get rid of it now.
              \_ 200 pounds of notes you wrote in 4-5 years of college?
                 Doubtful unless you're a triple major. 50 pounds more likely
                 \- more than just college notes. journals, printed out
                    articles, blueprint of evans hall [i am not kidding],
                    articles, blue print to evans hall [i am not kidding],
                    postcards, maps of museums etc. i threw away more than
                    50lbs in Economists alone. i have another at least 200lbs
                    in books waiting in the garage to be sold.
                    \_ Blue print to Evans hall? The authorities have been
                       notified ...
                 \_ 4-5 years?  You obviously don't know psb.
        \_ I kept some of my textbooks from CS classes but threw away the
           homeworks, lab books and projects.  I made a mistake of selling the
           CS164 and 186 textbooks right after the semester ended.  If I need
           to take the GRE later, I'll have to buy those two books again.
2005/11/20-22 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:40664 Activity:nil
11/20   Can anyone recommend a company for getting a 150 page color document
        printed and bound (some kind of reasonably robust nonhardbound binding)?
        I keep finding great deals on the web, and they keep being
        B&W only.  Thanks.
           \_ My neighbor used this to self-publish his memoirs.
2005/11/1-4 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:40384 Activity:nil
11/1    I have a technical phone interview with Google this week. The HR
        recruiter told me that it'll be 45 minutes and will be mostly
        theoretical, and that it's not a bad idea to spend a day or two
        preparing for it. What should I emphasize my preparation on,
        cs150, 152, 162, 170, etc? Thanks.
        \_ Yes you should study mostly cs150.
                \_ lol.  i recommend 170, 172, 174.
                   \- just tell them you are a person of deep faith and
                      believe in following ANSI. and rob pike is the most
                      smartest person EVER.
                      \_ ANSI?  Tell them you're up-to-date and follow ISO
                         instead.  But then they might ask you "why do you hate
        \_ Google doesn't pay that well for non-Phd non-super geniuses.
           The options/stock party is over.  They work their asses off in a
           cult-like atmosphere.  Why would you want this?  Go get a better
           paying job somewhere that won't have you working 60-80 hours a
           week and have a life away from your keyboard.
           \_ Out of curiosity, do you know how well they pay for phd super
              \_ I've read of more than one making $1 million+.  These are
                 people long established careers and big names within their
2005/10/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:39986 Activity:nil
10/5    Obesity a factor in the NY boat capsizing.
        "The Ethan Allen was rated for 50 passengers based on the Coast Guard
        standard of 150 pounds per person. Cleveland said that standard may
        have to be revised in light of data showing Americans growing fatter."
        \_ Americans fat and lazy?!!! All it takes is a passport and a
           plane ticket to about anywhere else in the world to figure
           that out.
        \_ There was also the bit about the heavier engine installed, the
           lead bricks added to balance the boat due to the heavier engine,
           and the heavier fiberglass top installed.
2005/7/19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:38697 Activity:low
7/19    To get from SF to Fresno (Sequoia Nat Park) is it better to take
        580/5 and get on 99 near Modesto or the southern route taking 152
        though Los Banos to 99? I assume taking 5 all the way to Los Banos
        doesnt make sense. n.b. Not travelling during rush hour and the
        drivers are speed limit drivers, so it's not worth driving extra
        distance on 5 with the assumption you will drive 100mph]. ok tnx.
        \_ Hmm, I thought I was the only one that drives at speed limits on
        \_ A lot does depend on the time of day. 99 gets is a major highway
           that gets a lot of local/truck traffic. Expect small traffic jams
           during the usual times. Plus 99 is rougher, goes through more
           towns, and the number of people following the speed limit varies.
           5/152/99 has more truck traffic, fewer jams but the occasional farm
           equipment slowdowns on 152, and is less scenic (not by much though).
           On both routes, drivers are happy to pass you by with out cursing
           you out.
        \_ A lot does depend on the time of day. 99 is a highway with a lot
           of local/truck traffic. Expect small traffic jams during the usual
           times. Plus 99 is rougher, goes through more towns, and the number
           of people following the speed limit varies. 5/152/99 has more truck
           traffic, fewer jams but the occasional farm equipment slowdowns on
           152, and is less scenic (not by much though).  On both routes,
           drivers are happy to pass you by with out cursing you out.
2005/3/21-23 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:36785 Activity:moderate
3/21    SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK (or, at least for those programming under a
        deadline).  Thank you.  That is all. - jvarga
        \_ ah, the all nighter.  You are bringing back memories.
        \_ I thought it was Spring Break?
           \_ I don't know if it is or not, but I often had to work
              through breaks.
        \_ uh, what year are you and what class did you have to stay up for?
           152? 164? 184? I HATE THOSE CLASSES. They should be 6 unit classes.
           \_ I remember having to work during spring break for Wawrzynek's
              150 project. We're suppose to design a MIDI decoder on a then
              new, untested, limited Xilink FPGA with only 2000 CLB's. I stayed
              and slept in Cory Hall (Soda was still only 1/2 done). I remember
              screaming a lot because the Xilinx license server kept going
              down, and 1/2 of the time the Xilinx "make" failed with
              unreproducible routing problems. My highlight was during the
              end of the break when my trusty partner and his GF visited me
              and asked how I was doing. All that time they were in Vegas or
              something... they seemed pretty happy and carefree.
              \_ And what is he doing today? I bet he is a sales engineer,
                 going to conventions in Vegas and raking in fat commissions,
                 while you probably still slave away in 16 hour days.
                 \_ you're absolutely right about that. He's making big fat
                    $$$ while I'm still in school (grad school). What can I say
                    The moral of the story I guess is that hard work is for
                    suckers. Hmmmm
           \_ I remember working through Thanksgiving for Katz's 150 in Fa90.
              We were building a 4-bit computer out of 74xx parts and some
              EPROMs and about a hundred spaghetti wires on four breadboards
              with a few plastic switches and LEDs as the operator console.  It
              was an eye-opener for me on how a general-purpose computer works.
              I'm glad I didn't end up taking it in later semesters where they
              did cool special-purpose machines like video games without the
              need to cut wires.
           \_ 152 and 164 were 5-unit classes when I took them.  Didn't take
              \_ 164 is a 5 unit class now?  not fair.
                 \_ The only 5 unit classes in EECS these days are 150 and
                    152. My understanding is that the department can't really
                    make the units realistic because of something about needing
                    to present a "typical" schedule under which students can
                    accumulate 120 units in 8 semesters. I don't know the
                    details. -gm
                    \_ CS50... now that was a tough class.  15x and 16x were
                       cake compared to that.
                       \_ Must be before my time.  What years was it offered?
                          What's it about?
                          What's it about, daddy?
                          \_ CS50 was replaced with CS60ac in 1986 (and went
                             from 1 5-unit class to 2 4-unit classes) because
                             50 was universally considered too difficult (I
                             think only 1 of 4 non-eecs managed to go from 50
                             to 55, and more than a few eecs dropped out of the
                             major because of the class).  60a originally
                             covered both scheme and C, and 60c was for
                             "advanced" C programming (since students had by
                             then a couple semesters of C experience).  I'm
                             under the impression that they've since further
                             reduced the class load by doing just scheme in
                             60a and just C in 60c.  I have no idea what they
                             teach now, but I'm pretty sure I'd be depressed
                             if I found out.  I think they now use the Computer
                             Organization book for 152, and that used to be
                             the text for 60b.  The quantitative approach
                             book was the 152 text, and now they reserve it
                             for 252.
2005/2/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:36089 Activity:nil
2/7     Dear graduate students who attend(ed) Berkeley, when you got admitted
        to Berkeley, how much did your department (EECS or not) pay for the
        visit to campus? How much did they pay for travel and how much (if
        any) did they pay for housing you if you're from out of state? I'm
        conducting an informal survey, thanks.
2004/7/26-27 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:32486 Activity:high
7/26    Has anyone ever successfully dealt with a stink toilet?  I didn't know
        they existed- and to think I never found one in Berkeley, but I have
        one at my nice new place.  It stinks.  I clean it, and then it smells
        like cleanser for about 2 days.  Then it stinks.  I haven't changed
        my diet, so I don't think it's ... that.  The toilet itself stinks.
        Please help.
        \_ Cut down on the Mexican food.  And be glad you don't have one
           of those French toilets with the poo shelf.  And clean under the
           rim.  -John
        \_ when you actually solve it, could you post what worked to the motd,
        \_ Are you cleaning all over?  Make sure you're getting under the rim
           as well as around the outside and base.
           \- you will need to nuke it from orbit
              \_ It's the only way to be sure.
        \_ try cleaning the tank.
        \_ Might be a bad gasket at the base, or it's not filling correctly
           after the flush.  The water in the bowl is what keeps odors down.
           If you're renting, tell the landlord.  They should fix it.
        \_ the gasket at the base between the toilet and the sewage line is
           called a 'wax ring', because, well, it's basically soft gooey wax,
           and they can easily fail, especially if the toilet isn't securely
           mounted to the floor.   Other possiblity is the water in the toilet
           isn't blocking gas fromthe sewer line.   Either task isn't a clean
           or easy fix.
        \_ the problem probably lies upon the gasket, or the wax ring as
           the above said.  My recommendation is that since you are going to
           lift up the tolet anyway, you might as well spend $150 to get a
           new one.
           \_ A new "toilet," I presume you mean.  Wax rings cost about $5.
              Again, if it's in an apartment, they should do all this for you.
2004/7/20-21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:32380 Activity:high
9/11    The one that reversed all the words yesterday, how did he do it?
        It was pretty funny.
        \_ Funny?  Yes, destroying other people's discussions (both political
           and technical) is Hi-larious.
        \_ How did he do it? We will never know. Such magnificent text
           processing is unheard of!! But that's the great thing about CSUA,
           you witness the sheer genius of our fellow Berkeley colleagues.
           I mean what was that, some kind of while (input) { reverse} job?
           They should use this problem in CS170.
           \_ No, such problem is hard enough to be used in ACM.
              \_ I think reverse() in a loop is too hard even for the ACM.
                 Why do you think they've never covered the topic before?
2004/6/4 [Politics, Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Science] UID:30600 Activity:kinda low
6/4     another power outage?
        \_ Not campuswide-- uclink and kalx were unaffected.
        \_ nope, try again:
           soda> uptime
           10:56AM  up 41 days, 16:31, 150 users, load averages: 7.28, 5.09, 3.08
           \_ Those sounds... could be imitated!  --Thufir
2004/5/17-18 [Transportation/Car, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:30255 Activity:insanely high
5/17    MOTD Reverse Bragging rights poll...
        I am 4.5 years out of Cal (BS EECS) and make $52k (benefits/nostock).
        Can anyone beat that?
        \_ 5 years out, $60k/yr BSME.
        \_ I'm five years out and getting 20k/yr...that's grad school.
           \_ That may be out of Cal, but not out of school, you don't count.
        \_ Sometimes my pimp gives me two rocks instead of one! --motd BS EECS
           \_ but how many years out of college? If you graduated 2001-2003,
              that's to be expected.
        \_ How much does a senior lecturer at Cal make?
        \_ What do you do?
        \_ I'm 11 years out of Cal (BS CS with honor) and I'm still at the
        \_ I'm 11 years out of Cal (L&S CS with honor) and I'm still at the
           bottom of the corporate ladder.
           \_ It really takes BS (the other kind) skill to climb the
              corporate ladder. Do not feel bad. I am in the same boat.
           \_ 11 years but how much do you make?
              \_ ~$110k.  I have friends who either make the same with fewer
                 years out of school, or make more and are higher on the ladder
                 \_ Dude, this is the REVERSE bragging rights poll. You
                    are bragging.
                 with the same years out of school.
        \_ 7 years out with a BS, $60k -geordan
        \_ 12 years out with a BA, $60k
           \_ BA in CS or some other field? If it's CS, that's impressive!
              \_ English Lit.
              \_ Anyone here make over $100k and drive a car worth less than
                 \_ 65k, $800 car (I heard that since it runs I can get this
                    much at a monster truck rally).
                 \_ does it count if you don't own a car?
              \_ Why is this impressive?  And why does anyone care about a
                 difference between EECS BS and L&S BA?  -L&S BA, $70k, 7 yrs
                 \_ EECS & CS are on the same scale, but it isn't impressive
                    if someone has an English degree and makes $50/yr, that's
                    called being "well-paid".
                    \_ International Relations, 7 years out of school, very
                       well paid.  It's not what you graduated with, it's what
                       you do with the degree.  -John
                       \_ .ch!  .ch!  .ch is the STANDARD!  Country!
                       \_ Yes, but look where you have to live.
        \_ 7 years out of school.  Gave up 124k job to take 80k job higher on
           ladder and feeling good about it.  Driving car worth about $2500.
2004/4/27 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:13416 Activity:nil
4/27    I forgot if I posted this before or not, but here's another fun
        problem:  Write the factorial function in any language of your
        choice without using any iterative constructs or named functions.
          -- ilyas
          \_ Here's another fun problem: Write your next major project without
             using user defined functions or subroutines utilizing only goto
             commands. After you have completed that task try climbing the
             stairs of your favorite building while hopping only on one foot.
             \_ Why lift weights?  It's such an artificial problem!  Almost
                no one actually needs to move weights around.  Just lift
                your arms instead.  Why prove stuff only using ZFC axioms?
                Just add whatever axioms you need, why restrict yourself to
                so little? -- ilyas
                \_ the only reasonable reason to do any of those is for
                   fun.  lifting weights is stupid.
                   \_ Either for fun or to develop a skill, or for reasons
                      of maintainability (that's the example of proving using
                      as little as possible).  At any rate, I am of the opinion
                      that folks that look down on these sorts of problems
                      as 'useless in the real world' have a dangerous case
                      of blinders coupled with an incurable case of vanity.
                      Certainly, nothing appearing in SICP is stupid.
                        -- ilyas
                \_ don't mind williamc. he's generally proved himself to be
                   kind of a dumbass anyway. in any case, perhaps ken thompson
                   put it best:
                   "In college, before video games, we would amuse ourselves
                    by posing programming exercises. One of the favorites was
                    to write the shortest self-reproducing program. Since this
                    is an exercise divorced from reality, the usual vehicle was
                    FORTRAN. Actually, FORTRAN was the language of choice for
                    the same reason that three-legged races are popular."
                    \_ three-legged races are popular?  -tom
                       \_ do we forget our childhoods so quickly?
                    \_ Many many years ago, after I told my dad that I taught
                       myself how to program, he gave me that problem.  I did
                       it (in Pascal), but it turned out that he expected me to
                       read the program file from disk and print it out!
                       \_ WOW, YOU'RE SMRT!!!
          \_ Or trying going one more day without pissing in your boss's
             coffee mug.  This one is much harder than the above but it *can*
             be done!
        \_ you already asked this, and anyone who's taken CS61A has seen it as
           the extra-for-experts problem to assignment 1 (or was it 2?)
        \_ float factorial(int i) {
             const float f[] = {1, 1, 2, 6, 24, 120, ... and so on ... };
             return f[i];
           \_ of course, this doesn't work for arbitrary n, and "factorial" is
              a named function.
              \_ Then how do you write a C function without a name?  And which
                 language would let you write the said function while
                 supporting arbitary n anyway?
                 \_ And finally we come to the purpose of this question...
                 \_ Take CS61A sometime.
                    \_ CS61A tells me the former or the latter?
                       \_ well, since C doesn't support anonymous functions,
                          and since 61A doesn't cover C: the latter.
        \_ Sterling's formula?
           \_ Exact answers only please.  I respect your good attempt though.
                -- ilyas
        \_ ; replace ___ with the value you want factorialed
           ((lambda (f n) (if (<= n 1) 1 (* n (f f (- n 1)))))
            (lambda (f n) (if (<= n 1) 1 (* n (f f (- n 1)))))
            \_ Nicely done.  The keyword for this sort of trickery is
               'continuation passing style.' -- ilyas
2004/4/25-26 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:13369 Activity:nil
4/24    There used to be an ee40 and ee120 TA named ken chiang. Anyone
        know where he is these days? He used to work in Fearing's lab.
2004/4/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool] UID:13318 Activity:nil
4/21    A tangent from the underrepresented minorities in CS/EECS
        thread below: Why don't many Cal grads apply/get Marshalls
        or Rhodes Scholarships? In my experience teaching at both
        Ivy League and BIg Ten universities, it's certainly not
        that Cal undergrads aren't up to it. COuld it be that
        the university doesn't do enough to promote the
        scholarships (the RHodes interview, from what I've heard
        requires a bit of coaching)? Or that perfectly accomplished
        & brilliant Cal undergrads, after four years of getting
        their egos bashed, just want to apply to grad/prof.
        school and move on with their lives? Just speculating. -elizp
        \_ I believe it is mostly because Cal undergrads have
           a lower opinion of themselves than is warranted. -ausman
           (in general of course, there are many exceptions)
           \_ That sounds right.
              Remember, boys & girls: don't let the system get
              you down. Seriously. -elizp
           \_ After a few years at Cal, I felt pretty bashed.  Then I entered
              the real world where falling into the 92% range wasn't an "F"
              any more and recovered.  In fact, the rest of the world is so
              dumb compared to the weakest Cal grad that you can skim by in
              life doing 35% and still do just fine.  I'm on cruise control
              at 70% and doing really well.  The bell curve in life is much
              different than the bell curve at Cal.  The fact that almost
              every Prof and TA will happily treat you like shit doesn't help
              students either.  Screw Cal, join life, win big.
        \_ I know of 2 Cal undergrads who later got Marshall scholarships.
           One (EECS ugrad) declined a Gates Scholarship (this is a wannabe
           Marshall / Rhodes scholar), and another got a Luce scholarship.
        \) cal has one marshall scholarship this year but the farm has 5
        \_ Cal had a Rhodes scholar last year.
           \_ ankur. eecs & business.
        \_  ``Cyrus is a black belt karate instructor, a downhill skier,
            and a published photographer. He is also blind.'' --rhodes scholar
                How can that shit be real?
            \_ I can explain the black belt, I think.  A lot of modern black
               belts are meaningless. -- ilyas
               \_ Don't nitpick, Ilya.  You still don't get handed one for
                  walking in the door and being able to write your name. -John
                  \_ As long as sparring isn't a part of promotion I'm confused
                     as to why a blind person wouldn't be able to learn karate
            \_ A lot of such scholarships are just jokes.
               \_ If it's free money, why not apply?
2004/3/24 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Companies/Google] UID:12832 Activity:nil
3/24    I have an interview at google soon for some sort of sysadmin
        position.  The HR person said google has "the google way" of
        interviewing.  What does that mean?  Are there any google people
        here or people who have interviewed there recently on the motd?  What
        should I expect?  I'm scheduled for about 4.5 hours including lunch
        with a manager.  Thanks!
        \_ The have a set of problems they want you to solve and will split
           them amongst the sets of people who will interview you. They then
           hand off the checklist from group to group. Some of the questions
           are very random "thinking process" type questions and some are
           actually applicable to the IT slot you are interviewing for.
        \_ think of random names that you can drop to show your knowledge.
           you'll probably have at least one stanfurd or cal grad... so you can
           make an acute reference to P&H and how that relates to sysadminning.
           this sounds like an asshole maneuver, but the purpose is to bond
           with the interviewer and make them nostalgic of the good ol college
           days. also, it's always good to touch up on random puzzle questions.
           -!google employee
           \_ Dropping BS in an interview is a great way to get a job you don't
              want.  Be yourself, think of some good questions and don't take
              any crap.  Remember, you need to decide if *you* want to work
              there, just as they need to decide if they want you to work
           \_ What is "P&H"?
              \_ Patterson & Hennessy I'd guess.  Textbook for cs61c.
                 \_ If you need to reference a lower division text to
                    impress someone on an interview, don't.  Your interviewer
                    will not be impressed.
                    \_ They use that book in CS 152 and there is also a
                        graduate version of the book too. You can reference
                        Sussman&Sussman if you think you're elite.
                        \_ Do they use Patterson & Hennessy in CS152 also?
                           How weak.  I thought they used to teach H&P in
                           that class.
                        \_ Just avoid referencing text books in general.
                           Text books are not impressive.
                 \_ I can never keep P&H and H&P straight.
           \_ Um, what the fuck does P&H have to do with system administration?
                           \_ If I say fuck, I mean fuck.  Please don't censor
                              it ``for the children.''
              - worked as a sysadmin, TA'ed with Patterson, and guest
                lectured for 61C
              \_ doesn't p&h cover the basics of "what is a processor",
                 "what is a disk", "what is io", "what is memory", etc.?
                 probably useful for your advanced sysadmin.
                 \_ Sounds more like a requirement to call yourself an
                    advanced sysadmin.
        \_ Expect them to ask you for your GPA and SAT scores. No joke.
           \_ They never asked me this. -- ilyas
              \_ IIRC they didn't offer you a job either.  Perhaps they didn't
                 feel the need.
                 \_ Perhaps.  I would be surprised if they asked this of
                    anyone, they seemed more clue-enabled than that.  Also
                    I know some google employees, and their GPAs...
                      -- ilyas
2004/2/19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:29822 Activity:low
2/19    Any students here would like to comment on EECS enrollment after
        the dot-com collapse?  How many people enrolled in CS61A?  When I
        was a freshman there were only about 100 some odd people in 60A.
        I heard it ballooned to 400+ at the height of the boom.  What happened
        after that?
        \_ you realize that most people who post on motd are NOT enrolled
           in school?
           \_ I guess that's why it's addressed to "any students here."
2003/11/24-25 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Networking] UID:11210 Activity:low
11/24   I have SBC Enhanced DSL at home (5 fixed IP addresses) which
        until recently ran at roughly 15 kilobytes/s upload and 150 kilobytes/s
        download.  All of a sudden, for no reason that I can determine, I'm
        getting 25 kilobytes/s upload.  I haven't upgraded my service or
        anything.  Has SBC changed their equipment suddenly?  I live in
        San Francisco.
        \_ I have SBC 'consumer level' 1.5/128k in Berkeley and have also
           noticed they changed it to 1.5/192k.  I'm not complaining.
           \_ My 256 rated (233 actual) upload turned into 315+ recently
        \_ Mystery solved:
           "SBC/ASI will be changing the speed profiles that are installed
           on the DSLAMs and RTs that provide DSL service to it's customers.
           The biggest change will be that the upload side of the DSL profiles
           will now be rate-adaptive versus a fixed speed. This will allow
           the upload side to achieve higher sync speeds, based on line
           Amazing.  For the first time I have something nice to say about
           SBC.  Though I'm sure it was simply Comcast finally getting their
           ass in gear about service coverage that inspired it.
2003/11/4-5 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:10921 Activity:nil
11/3    How's CS61B with Shewchuk?
        \_ Decent.
2003/10/27 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29588 Activity:nil
10/25   I guess we've dropped 150 billions to Iraq for the wrong reason:
2003/10/23 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Reference/Tax] UID:10746 Activity:kinda low
10/22   Stupid question.  We've dropped 150 billions on the War on Terror.
        Where are these 150 billion (in 2 years) come from?
        \_ Start with 260 million Americans.  Figure number of taxpayers,
           average annual income, average tax rate, ...
           \_ Good thing you dont run the country because it doesnt work like
              that at all.
              \_ sure
           \_ much of the budget is fixed. There isn't exactly an emergency
              "trust fund" that I am aware of, and that is why I am confused.
              \_ I think Bush might have thought the same thing.
           \_ 300 billion in 4 years -> about $4500 per family of 4.
              For Berkeley grads, probably like $7000 per family of 4 given
              that they usually earn above average income.
              \_ It would be except most Berkeley grads don't earn that much
                 above the average if at all.  Not everyone got an eecs degree
                 and went on to found a company.
                 \_ hmmm. i'd like to see the actual numbers.  the people
                    i know from cal all have some kind of middle class
                    job at least.  the people i know from highschool
                    mostly went to college, then came home to live
                    with their parrents and work in retail making
                    barely over minimum wage.
        \_ Treasury bonds and Social Security. The Feds prints up promissory
           notes which people (countries, corps, etc.) buy with a bit of
           interest. However, it takes a long time to sell $150B, so the Feds
           loan themselves the money from SS, and slowly pay back SS with the
           money trickling in from selling T-bonds. Oh, and yes, taxpayers are
           on the hook for paying off the T-bonds plus interest.
            \_ Yet, 70% of you stupid Americans approved of this.
               \_ You really think the Federal government runs on nothing but
                  personal income taxes?  What do you think they did before
                  we had income taxes?  And who is paying most of those income
                  taxes in raw $$$ terms anyway?  Hint: it isn't 70% of
                  Americans.  Carry on.
                  \_ Income taxes contribute 49.2% of the fed revenues.
                     And SS, 33.1%.
                     \_ Yes, and what percentage of people pays the bulk of
                        that 49.2% or that 33.1% due to the way income taxes
                        are distributed?
                  \_ no. but the people are taking most of burden.
                     \_ Yeah, you know who oughta be taking the burden?
                        Those OTHER people.
                        \_ Yeah!  Let's fuck those *other* people instead!
        \_ In short, a fucking huge, taxpayer support ponzi scheme.
2003/10/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:10654 Activity:moderate
10/16   Has anyone of you made it through a CS course by watching the recorded
        lecture webcasts at <DEAD><DEAD> instead of attending the
        lectures. Is that doable? I am thinking of taking CS61B next semester
        but its lecture time conflicts with some other class that I really
        must take next semester too.
        \_ what happens if the midterms/final are at the same time?
           \_ The finals don't conflict. I hope the midterms don't conflict.
              If they do, is likely one of the two classes will have an
              alternative midterm for people with scheduling conflicts.
              \_ what's the other class? cs profs usually won't give midterms
                 on alternative dates. humanities *might*, but also not likely.
        \_ Why are undergrads posting on the MOTD?
           \_ We still allow that.
           \_ Because CSAA makes us sound like a 12-step program.
           \_ Look buddy, you're way off topic here.  This is not the
              proper forum to discuss CS or undergraduate related issues.
              \_ aw, give him the benefit of the doubt.  maybe he's a bitter,
                 laid off guy in his 40's who's going back to school.
        \_ If hte lecture times conflict, does Tele-BEARS (or whatever on-line
        \_ If the lecture times conflict, does Tele-BEARS (or whatever on-line
           interface these days) let you sign up at all?
2003/10/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:10628 Activity:high
10/14   Dammit, why did I waste all that time getting a BA from Berkeley when
        I could have just bought a fake degree?
        \_ I ask myself that a lot.  With minimum gpa requirements enforced
           by some HR bimbo, I would've been better off with a 4.0 from
           Hayward than my 3.0 from Berkeley.
           \_ If you think a college degree is mostly about your
              marketability, you definitely made a poor choice coming to
              Berkeley.  -tom
              \_ Where's your degree from?  No, I didn't come to Berkeley with
                 marketability in mind.  It was the best school in the state
                 without paying in blood.
                 \_ so there's some advantage to going to the best school
                    in the state, other than marketability?  -tom
                    \_ where's your degree from?  yes, when you're 16 or 17
                       and don't know what you want to do with your life you
                       apply to everything you think you can get into and a few
                       above that and take the best you can afford.  is there
                       something odd about what i did?  btw, where's your
                       degree from?
                       \_ He doesn't have a degree.  He is a dropout.
                    \_ do you suffer from MPD or something? there are obvious
                       advantages, like access to presumably more knowledgeable
                       faculty, meeting smarter people, perhaps having a
                       chance to learn more, etc.
                        \_ the point I am making is that the reason to come
                           to a top liberal arts institution has nothing to
                           do with being able to get a better job later.  It
                           has to do with *learning*.  If you just want a
                           better job, go to DeVry.  -tom
                           \_ and if you have half a brain you can learn those
                              things by going to a second rate liberal arts
                              school or just reading on your own.
                              the real advantage of a top school is who
                              you meet there.
                              \_ I partied with Nick Weaver!
                        \_ It probably is true that it's harder for
                           someone with 3.0 from Berkeley to get a job
                           right out of college than someone with 4.0
                           from Hayward.  I remembered both Intel and
                           AT&T turned me down because I didn't make the
                           GPA cut-off point.  But after you have worked
                           for a while, it really doesn't matter anymore.
                           \_ You don't want to work for places too dumb gather
                              that a 3.0 from Berkeley EECS is more impressive
                              than a 4.0 from Cal State San Bernardino CS.
                                \_ the original poster is too dumb to gather
                                   that a degree from Berkeley is more
                                   useful than one from a diploma mill, so
                                   maybe he'd prefer this kind of organization
                                   \_ And you're too dense to be able to
                                      discern sarcasm without smilies or other
                                      stupid indicators. --OP
                                      \_ sorry I meant followup #1, not OP
           \_ Best payoff from that PDF is when he googles all the people
              claiming to have degrees from the "universities" in question,
              and finds a bunch of college professors, teachers, and clinical
              \_ It gets better when he follows up on a forensic psychologist

                 with a PhD from Ashford University.
2003/9/27-28 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:10345 Activity:nil
9/26    Hilfinger's teaching 61A?  Wasn't he banned from teaching that class?
                                      \_ beats me.  that's just what I heard.
                                         \_ I hope not.  Hilfie rocks!
        \_ Troglodytes.  In their caves.  Getting paaale and white.  -John
        \_ During this Friday lecture, when asked about what's going to
           be on the Monday midterm, he said: "You're responsible for the total
           sum of the human knowledge since the beginning of recorded
           history with particular emphasis on this course"
           \_ that's what he *always* says. so don't even bother asking.
           \_ Because profs are tired of answering the same stupid question,
              "what's going to be on the test?" over and over and over.  Duh,
              if it was in the book, lecture, or discussion section it's fair
              game.  Stop asking stupid questions and the profs will stop
              giving stupid answers.
           \_ Ahhh, Hilfie.  Reminiscing about the good old days when I was
              a happy minion under the heavy hand of the force of universe
              known as the Hilfinator bearing down upon the unsuspecting
              benighted population of the Berkeley undergrads brings a happy
              tear to my eye.  Although, in my opinion, he was way too soft
              with the 164 students that semester.  Projects seemed so much
              more trivial when you're the one grading them.  I think the
              students even had time to sleep.  -- alice
              \_ Was Hilfie in the hospital that semester or something?
              \_ Yeah, I had Hilfinger for 164 (and you as my TA), and I'm
                 surprised my grade turned out to be as high as it was.
                 \_ Who are you?  Are you asking for your grade to be
                    retroactively lowered?  That can be done.  -- alice
                    \_ Who are you? And why do you think that lording over
                       students is such a great thing? Penis envy?
                       \_ It's called humor.  Train harder.  -- alice
                          \_ It's not funny.  And dont lie to yourself.
                             You're pathetically trying to show off.
                             \_ You're making the mistake of considering
                                yourself important enough for me to feel
                                superior by putting you down, not to mention
                                feeling "lorded over" when I was just stating
                                a simple possibility.  I'm amused.  Too bad
                                you're not.
                                 -- alice
2003/9/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool, Industry/Jobs] UID:10219 Activity:nil
9/16    New Graduate Salary Survey Quiz.  What was your starting salary if
        you've graduated in the last two years with a CS or EECS degree?
         < 35K:
        60-65K: .
                \_ 2 years ago, didn't graduate.
        65-70K: .
                \_ and my company is hiring if anyone is interested
                   \_ which company?
                      \_ hm, it seems we have a ucla ee/cs guy problem
         > 70K: .
        still looking for a job: .
2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Theory] UID:12244 Activity:very high
2/13    How about a little academic anti-bragging?  Let's poll how low your
        SAT/GRE score was and how well you did in school.  Do not reply if you
        had a high score.  For me, I was an EECS major and I had a SAT of
        1300.  My math was an abysmal 680.  I think I was the only EECS guy
        with such a low math score.  I did ok in school (some As, mostly Bs).
        \_ In high school, 670 Verbal, 720 Math, 3.98 GPA.
           Graduated Cal with a 2.74.  Fucking ouch.
           \_ I think he wanted the other way around. I know a lot of people
              including myself who were good in HS but fucked up at Cal. I
              think it had more to do with peripheral issues than actual
              academics. I did well when I tried, but I had a hard time
              enjoying and motivating myself there. Although having Cal on my
              resume helped with job interviews, what with my shitty experience
              and having to explain shitty grades I should have gone elsewhere.
        \_ I failed every single math class after junior year in high school.
        \_ I graduated with a 2.3 GPA.
        \_ got in with 1200 SAT, English major, graduated with a 2.8. I'm
           making 6 digits as a sys adm.
        \_ 370 Verbal, 780 Math.  Graduated with honor in L&S CS with 3.65.
           (Now guess my ethnicity.)
           \_ Asian, Eastern European, or white nerdling who lived in a cave.
        \_ 540 Verbal, 670 Math, and got into EECS.  I thought hell would
           freeze over before I got into EECS with that score, but it happened.
           My guess is that I got in for geographic reasons.  I came from
           Modesto, and in general the Central Valley is under-represented in
           terms of % of people in California. -phale
           \_ I scored a lot higher and didn't get in.  --white boy
        \_ Well, my SAT was okay, but my GPA wasn't so hot. I wasn't even
           within the top 40-percentile of my class, yet I still got in.
           \_ are you a protected minority?
              \_ no. i think i simply got lucky.
                 \_ there's a small quota for "low end white people" too
        \_ 640 verbal, 730 math, Entered Fall '85 EECS
           \_ Oh, 1370!  How shameful!  This is supposed to be anti-bragging.
              \_ yer supposed to say "apparently your verbal score is
                 overinflated, because ...", or "yermom accepts all
                 applicants regarless of SAT score"
        \_ 1410, l&s, non-cs, below 2.7 gpa, making well into 6 figs
        \_ 1320, foreign student, didn't finish high school because we end
           in december, used 10th grade exam results to apply, our
           grades are like a1, a2, b1, b2, didn't know how to translate
           to gpa, so I just considered both a1 and a2 as 4.0, which
           made my gpa 4.0.  they did get my transcript though so they
           can see everything.   had one semester of 9th grade in the
           US and got a 4.0, so that might have helped.  Cal at first
           wanted my 12th grade exam results, but I ask them not to be
           so picky, so I got in, but UCSD rejected me for unknown
           reasons.  Cal was pretty tough for me (B), but many of my
           fellow countrymen did really well at Cal, most with > 3.5 gpa,
           one with 17 A+'s in EECS.
2003/8/25 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:29460 Activity:nil
8/25    I would like to take a CS61C a year from now and my buddy is selling
        his used 61C book real cheap. I'd buy it if I knew the same book will be
        used a year from now ("Computer Organization and Design: The
        Hardware/Software Interface", 2nd edition). Does anyone have any
        insights on whether this class will continue using this book?
        \_ If that's the Hennesey and Patterson book, it's been used for a very
           long time, and it's a good reference regardless.
2003/7/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:29037 Activity:low
7/14    When I was in CS61A there was a program that would let you view
        your scheme code as a flowchart. Does anyone remember the
        name of the program?
        \_ When I was your age, cs61a was called cs60a and we used real
           editors (emacs without hilit mode) and real workstations like
           the Apollos and later on the really awsome DEC3000s.
        \_ you probably mean envdraw, but that doesn't do flowcharts.
2003/5/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/OtherSchools] UID:28575 Activity:insanely high
5/29    Related to the career thread schools really help
        make a difference in terms of salary, career advancement, etc?
        Everywhere I've worked, people from Cal States make almost
        as much as me and I never have a fancier title either.
                \_ Actually, some economists have done studies of this
                   sort of thing. Controlling for your ability, school
                   doesn't have that much of an effect except if you
                   are really smart and go to a 3rd rate school. Then
                   you tend to make less money than a smart person who
                   went to a competitive school. -fab
                   \_ Hello.  Just thought I would point out that
                      taking a sample of people with the same ability,
                      and observing their school and their salary will not
                      tell you the effect of school on salary.  You cannot
                      determine effects from observations in general. -- ilyas
                \_ There are surveys that track people through the life course.
                   Random samples of people. For example, the national
                   longitudinal study tracks a random sample of seniors
                   through college and into the labor market. By "controlling,"
                   I mean "throw the ability variable" into the regression
                   eqn. Nothing wrong with that. -fab
        \_ First place I worked at, HR asked me if I had a degree.  I said
           that it was from Cal, and asked whether they'd like to see it, and
           was told "no, your having a degree from there means enough".
           Started at ~$75-80k.  Depends on company, country, area, luck,
           economic situation, but yes, it helps to have a degree from a
           good school to get the interview.  -John
        \_ education from Cal gets you in the door.  Once you are working,
           it is all up to you to advance your career.
           \_ For me, a degree from MIT gets you an interview, pretty much
              automagically.  A Cal degree gets you laughed at.  Seriously,
              it's moderately depressing how few resumes of Cal grads cross
              my desk.
              \_ I had four MIT co-workers. Three are smart. The fourth
                 is actually kind of dumb. All four were promoted, though.
                 Caltech gets similar respect. As for Cal, there are two
                 others, including one very respected but I am sad to say
                 that my old secretary had a Cal degree (current is from
                 UCSD). That was really hard to accept.
                 \_ Cal is a big, diverse school -- the degree in question
                    matters at least as much as the University.
                 \_ I've met 2 significantly stupid MIT grads, one of them
                    a MIT PhD.  The rest (certainly numbering in the many
                    10's) were all more than average bright.  That's a better
                    hit rate than any other school in my experience.
                    That's why MIT boys get the auto interview.
                    \_ I haven't met any really stupid MIT people. What is
                       an example of something dumb he/they did?  All the
                       people who did caltech undergrad have been really
                       smart.  Berkeley depts like MassComm or PhysEd are
                       of course a world of difference than say Physics.
                       I cant think of any "really dumb" UCB physics people.
                       \_ Something dumb: Used drop tests from a helicopter
                          to test a parachute instead of a wind tunnel despite
                          much contrary advice with predictable (bad)
                          consequences. Is this IQ 80 stuff? No. Is this
                          a credit to MIT, though? (The Cal guys were on the
                          right side of this one, FWIW).
                       \_ A MIT boy once interviewed with me who can't answer
                          simple 6.111-type questions.  Another guy I am
                          working with now with can't reason his way out of
                          a paper bag even with written directions.  I spent
                          an afternoon trying to explain cache associativity
                          to him and finally gave up.
                          \_ not my field, what's 6.111?
                             \_ It's the MIT version of CS150, except
                                much harder (or so the MIT boys tell me).
                                \_ how would they know unless they took both
                                   at which point they'd already have the
                                   experience from one to make the other easy?
                                   \_ Don't be so parochial.
                                      \_ You almost had something to say.
                                         Would you like to try again?
                                         \_ No.  I'm not in the business of
                                            providing people with directions
                                            to reason their way out of paper
                                   \_ Take a look at past exams, hws and
                                      projects for 6.111 and compare with
                                      150. 6.111 is *much* harder.
                                      \_ Did they dumb down 150 recently?
                                         \_ 6.111 was much harder than 150
                                            even 15 years ago.  It wouldn't
                                            surprise me (and in fact I'd think
                                            it likely) that 6.111 has always
                                            been more difficult than cs150.
              \_ Can I send you my resume?
              \_ If there are any insecure motd readers who are saying
                 to themselves, "Really?  People will laugh if they see
                 I have a Cal EECS degree on my resume?", the answer is
                 no, unless the company is run by Stanfurdites or MIT people.
        \_ Yes, they do. Not always the way you think, though. There are
           always certain schools preferred because their programs are good,
           past hires worked out well, or the boss likes students from that
           school for some reason (alum network). The company matters, too,
           as does the type of work. --dim
        \_ I've had a few former managers who've made side comments like,
           "he's from such-and-such school, he's smart".  Sometimes they
           really were smart but not always.  It's a matter of perception.
           Certainly, going to a good school won't hurt you unless you're
           at the kind of place that has hiring managers that don't hire from
           top schools because the hiring managers have small parts.
           \_ could you explain that last statement?
                \_ small dick = insecure = don't want anyone smarter
        \_ A few things I have learned:
           1)  Public schools have a lot of schmucks that I wouldn't trust to
               do anything worth while, but who successfully slipped through
               the system without offending anybody.
           2)  The top percent from any school is great (whether it is MIT,
               Cal, or CSUN).
           3)  Being able to communicate is extremely important (and if you
               haven't yet noticed, that isn't high on Cal's list for its
               EE grads).
               \_ But when the ya know, right, eh?  Whassup dauwg?  Know what
                  I mean?
        \_ I have a Chemical Engineering degree.  And I can tell you this,
           Cal is very respected in the Petroleum / Chemical Engineering
           field.  Also, my experiences is that Cal carry a big weight
           when you apply for grad school.  I would agree with the earlier
           post.  Cal degree give you an edge to get an interview.  It may
           not carry as much weight as MIT/CalTech or even Stanfurd, but
           it give you an edge over all other schools.  The rest is
           up to you.  Life is a struggle, and the struggle doesn't end
           even after you obtain the degree.
                        -career never took off, but felt that Cal
                         had treated me fairly.
           \_ interesting.  my career took off but I don't think Cal treated
              me fairly.  it was the worst few years of my life.  however,
              after the sheer Hell that was Cal, everything else is easy.
                       want, and got all A's for the final 3 papers.
              \_ care to elaborate on your career?  my life at Cal
                 was also the darkest days in my life...
                        -Chem Eng, age of 30, still need career advice.
                 \_ In brief: I make a shitload of money doing what I like.
              \_ ...yet somehow, either before or after your time at cal you
                 figured out how not to use phrases like "cal carry big weight"
                 unlike the above.  This comes back to the point above about
                 communication skills.
                 \_ Before, actually.  I learned at Cal that writing well was
                    of no value.  My papers in fuzzy classes would get C/B
                    grades because they didn't like the content even when the
                    classes were supposed to be graded on correct grammar,
                    spelling, etc as in Subject A, English 1A, etc.  I saw
                    other people's papers I'd be ashamed to turn into my HS
                    English teacher, which the reader bloodied with corrections
                    get an A+ and a note at the end about how great the paper
                    was.  I started writing crap papers with the right content
                    and my grades went up too.  Fuck Cal.  --bitter alum
                    \_ Me too.  For my English 1A class with 6 papers, my
                             and fucked her and gone over to Sproul to drop.
                       grades went B, C, D, and then I realized what they
                       wanted, and got all A's for the final 3 papers.
                       \_ well, it looks like we all learned a useful lesson
                          from 1A/1B.  Grad students in English and
                          comp lit are stupid assholes.  I actually told
                          one of them to fuck off once. I had gotten an A on
                          the first paper, but they told me that they would
                          give me a straight F for the class if my attitude
                          didn't change.  they had started talking about
                          how relativity meant that everything was relative
                          or some other horseshit, and were not interested
                          in what i had to say about what relativity is really
                          all about(i was a physics major).  So flipped the
                          stupid cunt off,  told her "fuck you" and
                          went straight over to sproul to drop.
                          \_ I would've rather flipped the stupid cunt open,
                             fucked her and gone over to Sproul to drop.
                             \_ No, you wouldn't.  You didn't see her.
        \_ The best thing about a Cal degree is writing right here on
           the MOTD with my homies and the one or two brave enough
           \_ YO DAUWG!
           \_ GO BEAH!
2003/5/22 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:28520 Activity:very high
5/21    Is it worth taking someone to small claims court for $150?
        More specifically, will it be woth it after all the hassles,
        headaches, and fees associated with it?
        \_ You can recover fees, so if you win it's just time.
        \_ With small claims court, it's all relative. If you've got the time
           to spend in court, it's worth it. If not, then it's not.
        \_ doesn't that really depend on how much 150 (and getting even) is
           worth to you?
           \_ Yeah, I don't really care that much about the money. It's
              just the principles of the whole thing that I want to get
              the bitch back. -OP
              \- assuming you are employed, at $150 it is going to be
                 about the "principle" and not the "principal". one thing
                 to remember is after you have served the other party,
                 he too will be facing "is it worth going to SCC for $150"
                 [unless you up the claim amount], so he may decide to
                 settle to avoid the hassle. although you may be out the
                 service costs and such. so what to do sort of depends
                 on your guess about how the other person will react ...
                 like the other party might not show up so you win a
                 default judgement, but you might have still had to prepare
                 your case. there is a good NOLO book on SCC. --psb
        \_ Small claims court doesn't help you collect the claim.  It just
           rules that you are legally entitled to the money, but that's it.
           \_ Yeah but collecting the claim can be fun if you're a bastard
              and do things like attach their wages if they have any.
              \_ is their a nolo book that covers how to do that?  thanks.
2003/5/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:28509 Activity:very high
5/21    I sometimes get asked why my CS degree from Berkeley is a BA and
        not a BS.  What's the best way to answer that to a potential
        \_ BA means you took more than one english class.
                \_ It's really an arbitrary distinction, but some schools
                   give you BS in math if you do some courses in applied
                   math. Otherwise, you get the BA. The idea is that "BA"
                   is for theoretical stuff, while "BS" means you have to
                   get your fingers dirty. At Berkeley, the CS degree
                   in LS requires less engineering and lab courses than
                   the CS tracks in EECS. Thus, you get the BA. I would
                   not put much credence into the distinction.  -fab
                \_ Not true. I took 3 English classes to satisfy the
                   GE requirements. Still got a BS from the Dept. of
                   Engineering. I just wish that I had taken those
                   classes for a letter grade, 12 units of A's would
        \_ Because the college of L&S does not hand out BS.  That's reserved for
           business school (rim shot).  Seriously, a physics degree is a BA too.
                   have boosted my gpa.
           \_ Nah.  My AP exam exempted me.  I didn't take a single English
              class @ Cal.  Now don't get me started about American Cultures...
              \_ I am hereby getting you started on American Cultures.
                 \_ My one P/NP class.  History of the California Frontier.
                    Taught by Kent Lightfoot.  What a waste of time.
                    \_ oh, come on.  you call that a rant?  start a new
                       thread with a lenthy rant if you really care.
        \_ why is a math degree a BA and not a BS? I remember Brian Harvey
           talked about this on the 1st or 2nd day of 61A.
           \_ I remembered some years ago I checked out the BS program
                under College of Engineering.  It had very strict requirement
                that one must maintain a 3.0 GPA at all time or will be on AP.
                It was a major for graduate school preparation. -- ivy
        \_ "I was not as 1337 as the College of Engineering studs, so I
           took the L&S program and met more hot chix."
           \_ AKA: I actually learned something important at college
        \_ Because the college of L&S does not hand out BS.  That's reserved
           for business school (rim shot).  Seriously, a physics degree is a
           BA too. [I'm going to start deleting your shit on the spot if you
           don't learn how to format.  -evil formatd]
           \_ I understand this myself, but what's the best way to explain
              it to a potential employer who doesn't understand and not
              make him feel that I don't have enough "science" training?
              \_ Tell him a physics degree is a BA.  If that's not good enough,
                 you probably don't want to work there.
        \_ I tell them the physicists, the chemists, and just about everyone
           else gets a "BA" from Cal, that it's just a Cal thing, shrug, and
           don't try to get too defensive about it.  Look bored by the
           question in a "sigh, I have to answer this stupid question again"
           kind of way, but be polite.  Do not under any circumstances allow
           them to say you have a lesser degree.
           \_ actually, i think the chemists get a B.S.  it's all about what
              college you're in.  The college of chemistry and the college
              of engineering both give out B.S.'s, and L&S gives out only BA's.
              That's the long and short of it.  obviously, this means that
              all science majors except engineering and chemistry get BA's.
              \_ there are a few L&S chemistry majors.  they are the proverbial
                 redheaded stepchildren.  pity them.
              \_ I would not confuse the issue by getting into different kinds
                 of majors and colleges.  The OP wants help in intelligently
                 answering a question a non-Cal person will never understand.
                 The right answer is that "everyone" gets a BA and to not make
                 a big deal out of it.  If you start explaining things you'll
                 look like an idiot and not get the job which is the whole
                 point.  They don't give a shit about the inner workings of
                 your school.  Just get the job.
        \_ Well, the real question the interviewer is asking is, "Why are
           you in L&S?  Are you too weak to be in the College of Engineering?"
                \_ If you aren't interested in hardware, there is little
                   point in doing Engineering CS. Most people would give an
                   arm and a leg for the opportunity to major in LS CS degree
                   at Berkeley. -fab
                   \_ Yes, but then you wouldn't be 1337.
           \_ No.  You're wrong.  Only a Cal alum would know the difference.
              The rest of the world is just baffled and is asking exactly the
              question they want answered.
              \_ You're assuming that the interviewer will only see L&S
                 grads and would be satisfied by the everyone gets a BA in
                 L&S.  I am assuming the interviewer will see a mix of
                 EECS and L&S CS, and would wonder the EECS guys get a BS
           \_ For me, I didn't know what the difference was when I was
              filling out the adminssion application.  I thought to myself
              I am not really interested in EE, so I opted for just CS,
              not realizing it would be a BA instead of BS.  It had
              nothing to do with thinking I might not be strong enough for
        \_ Sigh. BS implies applied physical science as opposed to BA which
           implies more theoretical education.
           \_ Wrong.  The Division of Physical Sciences at Cal (Physics,
              Astronomy, Earth and Planetary Science, Statistics, Math)
              gives out BA's.  -tom
              \_ Youre not paying attention.  You missed the point of this
                 thread.  the point of this thread is for EECS majors to
                 blather on about their m@d 33kZ sk177Z0rz.  as a math
                 physics double major, I just wish I was k3wl enough to
                 get a BS like them.  Then I would have actually learned
                 something practical.
              \_ Actually not sooo wrong.  It is applied vs. theoretical--
                 so what if he said physical instead, don't be so argumentative
                 just to throw out points.  And remember, the boundaries are
                 blurry, I actually took more hw classes than most EEs and I
                 was L&S.  And my GPA was as high as it gets, so there goes
                 the can't cut it in EECS idea.  Personally I enjoyed taking
                 a lot of astronomy, physics, biology, and chemistry without
                 anyone looking over my shoulder and complaining.
        \_ Just put down undergraduate degree in computer science at
           UCBerkeley and it will never come up.
2003/5/15-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:28451 Activity:low
5/15    Is there a good program to draw timing diagrams, in the style
        of cs150? Any platform is fine. Thanks.
        \_ smartdraw?  Visio?
                \_ visio just is only good for flowcharts, diagrams,
                   and other interconnected type diagrams.
        \_ synapticad waveformer.  of course, they had to ruin it by adding
           logic and timing analysis bs to what was originally a waveform
           drawing program.
           \_ it's now feature rich *and* many software dev jobs were saved
              because someone was smart enough to find something else to
              stick in there.
2003/5/11-12 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/UCLA] UID:28409 Activity:high
5/11    I have been accepted to UCLA for Fall 03 (CS & Engr) and to Berkeley
        for Spring 04 (EECS), granted that I take a community college class
        in Fall. Is Berkeley worth waiting for and why?
        \_ yes.
        \_ Are you posting for someone or is this for grad school?  If the
           latter it's all about your advisor.
           \_ It's for undergrad and I attended Berkeley for summer school
              last summer (CS61a).
        \_ wait for Berkeley. Have fun in community college.
        \_ I think I'd rather get started on college, IMO. You didn't make
           Berkeley, so why wait? UCLA is good enough, unless there's an
           overwhelming reason you don't want to be in LA. UCB has the
           better program, of course, if you're really serious - but if
           you're really serious you wouldn't have to take a CC class. --dim
           \_ what's the rush for?  I don't think there is really a rush.
              Good things are worth the wait.
        \_ BS EECS from Cal is a *MUCH* better degree than BS CS from
           UCLA. Cal EECS teaches you stuff about computers and
           programming, just about how to use win32 and java. While
           you are in school it is also much easier to get summer
           interships in the bay area if you attend Cal (there aren't
           as many CS type companies in the LA area). Once you
           graduate, it is much easier to get a job or get into grad
           school if you have a BS EECS from Cal.
           You should wait for Cal and have a good time in CC.
        \_ If you want to have a bitter & lousy time in school and have a
           blast after you graduate, go to Cal. I had a miserable time in
           Cal. Forget about dating and meeting people and having fun, you
           will most likely spend your miserable junior/senior years in
           Cory Hall and/or Soda Hall. On the other hand it's much easier
           getting a job after college with a Cal degree. So it's your
           choice. UCLA is a pretty well balanced school. UCB is a really
           competitive & academic school w/ugly uptight chicks. Trade offs
           ya know.
           \_ It wasn't THAT bad, man.  If you keep up and don't turn into a
              total slacker you can maintain a healthy social life and still
              earn a decent GPA.  I did it, and I'm pretty stupid.
                \_ Don't sell yourself short - you are exceptionally stupid.
                   \_ I'm stupider that you can possibly imagine.  But at
                      least I can post to motd correctly.
                      \_ DV: When I left, I was but the learner; now I
                         am the dumbass.
                         BK: Only a dubmbass of evil, Darth.  If you strike
                         me down now, I will become stupider than you
                         can possibly imagine.
                         BK: Only a dubmbass of evil, Darth.  If you
                         censor my motd posts now, I will become stupider
                         than you can possibly imagine.
           \_ just because you were a pathetic low life geek at cal doesn't
              mean everyone was.  Stop hating and start recogonzing you were
              just fucking lame back then.
           \_ there are over 15,000 women at Cal.  If you can't find one, you
           \_ There are a lot of hot chicks at Cal and several of us were
              getting them when I was in school.  Let me give you a starting
              tip on what it takes: shower everyday.  I had a blast at Cal and
              a blast afterwards.  I had a mediocre GPA and it didn't matter
              because after my first job no one asked.  GPA is only for people
              going to grad school.  The rest of us did just fine getting laid
              all the time, thanks.  Oh yeah hint #2: the hot chicks aren't in
              the labs at cory/soda.  Go take some fuzzy classes P/NP.  You
              only live once, don't fuck it up for some random number.
2003/4/22-24 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Theory] UID:28191 Activity:high
4/22    Data Structure: X,Y,Z coordinates repeated. Same X,Y - different Z
        Ie, multiple surfaces over the same grid. Problem: Want a polynomial
        fit f(X,Y)=Z; save the equation in matrix/vector; then the dump into
        MATLAB. Question: a lot of programs do polynomial fits, but it
        seems to be a pain to save the equation describing f(X,Y). What can
        I use to do a large number of curve fittings and then save the
        polynomical eqn? fab@csua
        \_ If you took CS170 you should know the answer to your own question.
           Hint: it starts with an F, and runs in O(n log n) time.
                \_ Didn't take CS170. Care to provide an answer? The question
                 isn't about curve fitting, it's merely about making
                 your favorite software (Stata, SPSS, MATLAB, etc)
                 produce a friggin' macro/list/whatever. fab
                 \_ The data structure itself can be used to represent the
                    fitted polynomials.  You can transform between a 'set of
                    points' representation and 'set of polynomial coefficients'
                    representation using something called Fast Fourier
                    Transform.  I highly suggest you read up on it, any
                    engineer should know what it is.
                        \_ I'm not an engineer. Sorry to disappoint, but if
                        this is routine, I wouldn't mind paying some undergrad
                        a very modest sum to do this for me. fab@csua
                        \_ Dear fab@csua.  Are you really stupid enough to
                           not realize you just offered someone a very modest
                           sum to do nothing at all?  The whole point of FFT is
                           that your original matrix is a perfectly valid
                           representation of the fitted polynomials.
                           \_ I think it's a reasonable guess that anyone
                              not clever enough to indent motd correctly
                              may not be clever enough to do FFT's.
                    \_ I took 170.  We didn't cover that.  Must be new math.
                \_ Boy, there are a lot of wrong answers here. FFT does
                   NOT fit polinomials to data. It fits discrete complex
                   sinusoids to it. This almost certainly isn't what the
                   person wants. Your belligerence is unwarranted, and
                   surpassed by your ineptitude, mr. fft guy.
                   The op should consider performing the polyfit in MATLAB,
                   instead of worrying about how to dump the result to
                   MATLAB. the polyfit function in matlab does this. Also,
                   I don't understand your question, so what nivra said -ali.
                      \_ this teaches you how to use the FFT to multiply two
                         polynomials. the trick is based on the fact that
                         convolution of the poly coeffs is the same as
                         multiplication of the DFT coeffs. it has nothing
                         to do with polynomial fitting. did you just google
                         for "fft and polynomial" and post the result on
                         the motd? -ali
        \_ I don't get your question.  It seems you're asking for the
           following:  You have n-mesh like 2-D surfaces, you'd like a
           polynomial fit for each surface, resulting in n-sets of polynomial
           equations Z = f(X,Y), You'd like to save all n equations easily.
           Most polynomial fits should give output in terms of coefficients.
           These coefficients form a vector: eg. Ax^2+Bx+Cy^2+Dy+Exy+F.
           You will end up with n sets of coefficeints.  You can save this
           as a big matrix in Matlab.  What's so difficult about this?  If
           you want to do multiple polynomial(2nd order - 10th order) for
           each mesh surface, you run this whole thing 9 times, and get
           1 matrix for each order, with higher order polynomial fits having
           many more vector elements.    -nivra
2002/9/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:26040 Activity:nil
        Hilarious thread on 61b newsgroup from February. Look at the
        first message, and at Shewchuk's reply (Shewchuk was teaching
        61b at the time).
        \_ It's Microsoft's fault.
2002/9/19-21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25948 Activity:moderate
9/19    Right after I took cs61c, I sold back my copy of Computer
        Organization and Design, but I need to look up some things
        in it again.  Does anyone have a copy in good condition (no
        writing / highlighting) that they would sell?  -dlwhite
        \_ i've never understood science/engineering majors
           who sell back their books.  you knew you'd need that stuff
           later in life, and you knew you'd be making lots of money
           later, so why sell back books at shit prices you know you'll
           \_ starving college students need every buck they can get.
           \_ Not all of the books are vital references that you'll
              need later.  Some of them are really only good for the
              classes that use them.
           \_ Yeah, a book read and understood is very useful for
              future reference and recollection.  However, my
              experience as someone who kept most of his books
              was that they disappear anyway cause friends borrow
              and never return them.
              \_ Get new friends, keep old books.
           \_ I kept lots of books.  Never cracked another one again after
              the final.  YMMV.
              \_ let me guess.  you're a sysadmin?  why did you even bother
                 going to college?
                 \_ Uhm hint: college is more than just technical training for
                    geeks to become better trained geeks.  You can get that
                    at DeVry.  Go outside and meet some chicks.  You're missing
                    out on what college is *really* about.  -alum
                    \_ Amen!  -John
                \_ my anus is bleeding!
                   \_ Yaaaaay!
           \_ I sold all my college books back except for my chem and physics
              books since they switched books. I've never needed a single one
              of my books, but that probably because I majored in mse and
              ended up a coder. Of the books I've bought for SITN classes, the
              only ones I've kept are CLR, Applied Crypto and Steven's APUE.
              \_ CLR ... what a pile of shite
        \_ Try or other online used book sellers.  Very reasonable
           prices and shipping costs.
        \_ is also a decent place to pickup some used tech books.
           I paid half of what I would have paid new.
2002/9/10 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25839 Activity:very high
9/10    When a guy says that he can bench press 130 lbs, what exactly does
        that mean?  Doing 130 lbs for how many reps?  Is there a standard
        way people talk about this.  And a related question, I can bench
        my body weight now (130 lbs).  Is this considered "strong"?  Again,
        I'm looking for rules of thumbs of what a normal or strong guy
        should be benching.
        \_ 130 lbs?!!! You must either be really short for a guy or anorexic.
           I would suggest that you eat more. Most guys weight at least 150
           lbs by college.
           \_ I'm the guy with 8% body fat.  I weigh 130 but I don't look
              skinny. There's almost no lard on me.
           \_ Most guys can compose grammatically correct sentences by college,
              as well.
              \_ By whose grammar is that sentence incorrect?  Zsa Zsa Gabor's?
                 And what's with the superfluous comma? --scotsman
        \_ it either means they rep with that weight or they can max
           out at that weight. if someone asked you what you rep with,
           you'd obviously tell them that amount. but if they don't
           specify, and you wanted to show off, you'd probably tell
           them what you can max (which will likely be more than
           what you rep with). as far as rules of thumb, they say
           approximately, to be "strong", you should bench (rep) your
           weight and a half.
           \_ damn, 1.5 times your body weight to be considered "strong"?
              Let's see how long before I can bench 195!  My weight will
              increase as I reach that target though. so the 1.5 * weight
              will only become a real goal when I start plateauing.
           \_ Hmm, I don't think I'll ever be benching 300.  I guess I'll
              never be strong.
              \_ With that sort of attitude, you're probably right.
        \_ When a guy says he can press X many pounds, he's saying he wants
           your hot man meat action in the gym's shower.
2002/9/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25825 Activity:moderate
9/10    anyone have an acct on eecs inst. machines?  Can you
        tar up ~cs61b/hw and put it in /tmp?  Thanks!
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>.  Take your pick.
        \_ bribe the prole
2002/9/8-9 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:25809 Activity:high
9/7     where are we?
        \_ last?
           \_ No, honorable mention. Yes, we've had better years. If you're
              so manly -- how well did YOU do on Hilfie's contest when you
              were an ugrad? (And yes, some of the better teams' members are
              on Soda too, but they most likely wouldn't be so lame as to
              post the above.)
              \_ The only 'contest' when I was an undergrad was surviving his
                 class while taking a full load of other eecs/math/physics
                 classes.  Cute little contests are for boosting self esteem
                 for kids.  I didn't need a self esteem boost when I was in
                 school.  We all knew where we stood because grades didn't
                 yet suffer from massive grade inflation.
                 \_ the above was addressed to the posters of the url and the
                    "last?" -- if you are neither, that message is not for you;
                    otherwise, stop whining about our standing, you have no
                    whining rights if you consider yourself above the contest
                    in general.
                    \_ Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.  Either way it's fair game
                       on the motd.  And actually yes I do either way because
                       if these things are getting published on the net and
                       Cal is looking lame then it makes it look like I came
                       from a lame school.  Also, either way, bite me.
                 \_ alright alright let's just stop this shit now before
                    it gets (further) out of hand
                    \_ out of hand?  on the motd?  how could that happen?
2002/9/8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25801 Activity:moderate
9/7     alexf, were you in that seminar-like course about 4 years
        ago that steve rudich from cmu taught, which was like a
        cross between cs170 and math 55, but more entertaining?
        \_ Err, that was Spring '98. I was in high school (in SoCal,
           furthermore). That is to say, "no." -alexf
2002/8/27 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25699 Activity:nil
8/26    Oh, those were the days... of hellish lab hours and coding punishment:

        From hilfingr Sun Sep 10 22:10:37 1989
        From: hilfingr (Paul N. Hilfinger)
        To: c60c-4ad
        Subject: Re:  project 1 and error checking

        These assignments are all intended to be "pseudo real-world".  This
        means you must expect that input will come from psychopaths.  Nothing,
        of course, can prevent such an individual from holding down the
        Control key while he types, for example.

        \_ You mean students these days don't have to write their code to
           handle garbage input?
           \_ In java?  HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
              \_ Gee.  I envy them!
        \_ 89?  Wasn't that after they watered down the 60abc series?
           You want tough, ask the guys who went through it circa 86/87.
           Actually, 60c was trivial after those guys survived the first
           semester of 60a in Fa86.  You want really tough, talk to some
           guys who went through cs50.
2002/8/20-21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25627 Activity:high
8/20    Never took EE120, what's a good primer URL? ok thx
        \_ the previous semester's website.
        \_ /csua/tmp/Structures-and-Interpretations-of-Signals-and-Systems.pdf
                \_ wow, any other book/pdf you have?
                   \_ P2P.  It's all there.
2002/8/20 [Transportation, Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Recreation/Dating] UID:25619 Activity:moderate
8/20    Does the EECS department filter for porn and such coming in on
        its network?
        \_ Yes, they do.  However, they don't block it, they just add it
           to their own porn archive.
        \_ They monitor all network traffic and if you're found in violation
           of the network traffic policies too many times you won't be allowed
           to graduate.
        \_ pass port 80 redirect 1984

2002/7/15-16 [Computer/HW/Languages, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:25362 Activity:low
7/15    So I have 3 days to (re)learn VHDL. The only EE class I took was
        cs152, no 150, no 141.  Any advice?
        \_ uh, what is this for? And how can you take 152 without 150?
        \_ so, is comp arch considered software or hardware?
                \_ it's the boundary in between them.
        \_ they teach it now in 61c/150.
        \_ 141 is probably irrelevant for most vhdl coding tasks.  150 is
           more relevant.  if you've learned vhdl in the past, just do a
           few exercises and you'll be fine.  if vhdl is new, find someone
           who knows the language well to teach you.  of course, this only
           addresses syntactical sugar.  learning how to design once you've
           learned vhdl is another matter.
        \_ what's the diff between Verilog and VHDL? Adv/Disadvantages?
           \_ the diff? the syntax. they do the same thing but vhdl requires
              more typing and in my exp. the latest tools etc. are targetted
              more at verilog. vhdl has some higher level constructs like
              records and shit that can be nice for some things. verilog
              is used by the vast majority of valley companies.
2002/7/8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/HW/IO, Academia/StanfUrd] UID:25300 Activity:kinda low
7/8     The mouse was invented by a Cal alumus IN THE SIXTIES!
        \_ bh showed his presentation in lecture when I took CS 61A. It was
           interesting. --dim
        \_ yeah, but he was working at Stanford.  Engelbart also invented
           hyperlinks, I think.
2002/6/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:25088 Activity:very high
6/12    Text of Mr. Rogers' Darthmouth speech:;f=45;t=006226
        \_ Too long and too low S/N ratio; I actually like Moseley's speech
        \_ Those fuckers were undeserving.  He should stop giving speeches to
           whining little twits like them.  I would've much preferred Mr.
           Rogers to the nobody we had my year.
        \_ Mr. Rogers is a communist:
           \_ Here we go with the mindless URL generators again.
           \_ How did he forget Kevin Spacey?
           \_ This is a joke right?
              \_ Nope.  It's off; it MUST be true.
                 \_ If you bothered to read the comments, the other freepers
                    make it very clear the list is bogus.  But of course you
                    didn't even load the url much less read the list there.
                    I'll bet you didn't even know it was pointing to a list.
                    \_ I dunno, I saw a number of freepers making it clear
                       that they "enjoyed" and "appreciated" the list.
2002/5/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:24744 Activity:insanely high 75%like:24738
5/7     Two airliner crashed in one day.  Oh my.


    Implications of DMCA Anti-circumvention Rules for Research
    Dr. Pamela Samuelson
    SIMS, UC Berkeley

May 8 , 2002 4:00-5:00 p.m.
Hewlett Packard Auditorium, 306 Soda Hall
EECS Joint Colloquium Distinguished Lecture Series
        \_ mp3 whore!  Hundreds of gigs!  Free Warez!  Woo hoo!  divx! yes!
           \_ um, I've taken 2 classes with Samuelson, Law 276.1 (digital law)
              and SIMS 231 (IP Law).  She's good; she knows what she doesn't
              know, and sticks to teaching what she does know, and researches
              what she doesn't.  So open your mind you closed source fuck.

        \_ The end is near!
2002/5/7 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:24738 Activity:nil 75%like:24744
5/6     Implications of DMCA Anti-circumvention Rules for Research

Dr. Pamela Samuelson
SIMS, UC Berkeley

May 8 , 2002 4:00-5:00 p.m.
Hewlett Packard Auditorium, 306 Soda Hall
EECS Joint Colloquium Distinguished Lecture Series
        \_ mp3 whore!  Hundreds of gigs!  Free Warez!  Woo hoo!  divx! yes!
2002/4/29 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Reference/Military] UID:24633 Activity:high
4/29    Cloning isn't safe:,4057,4218077%255E13762,00.html
        \_ Most new technologies and especially medical procedures aren't
           safe when first developed.  You ever been in a plane?  How about
           the Wright's plane?  Thought so.
        \_ They've already created cloned mice that are four times normal size.
           I wonder if they would accidentally created a monster mouse that
           grows to the size of a dinosaur.
           \_ Yeah they'll just keep feeding it until it's 3 stories high and
              not notice and then it'll eat Tokyo or New York.
                \_ that'd be COOL!
                   \_ I hope it's Tokyo.  They can rebuild that city so
                      fast.  They've got it down to an art, what with all
                      the godzilla attacks and whatnot.
2002/4/26 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:24601 Activity:moderate
        "The EECS dept. gives too much work... :(
        Berkeley girls are ugly... EECS girls are uglier."
        "Another cause of the mutation the UCB student is the consistent
        teaching of left-wing ideals in every area of study without showing
        the other viewpoint."  There's another viewpoint?
        \_ every area of study?  is there some political implication of
           the sign of the exponent in the fourier trasform i don't know
           \- This is actually an interesting question that is still generating
              ddbate in certain cicrles. ok tnx.
           \_ If you really don't know then there's probably no point in
              explaining it to you. The overwhelming academic support for
              the positive sign is pretty well documented, except
              maybe in bastions of freepers and Bushies like the motd.
              \_ Yeah Bushies only believe in 3 function math... Uh yeah
                 whatever... freak.
           \_ Wrenowsky et al came up with an elegant proof that resolved this
              argument. Read my pages if you're curious. Oh, did I mention
              my collection of guns? -ilyas
              my collection of guns?
              \_ Very funny. -- ilyas
           \_ Nobody but a few losers which missed the fall of Berlin Wall
              hiding away in a places like Cal still support positive sign.
              \_ You're an idiot. -tom
              You think they could get over it.
             <drivel deleted by kinneydriveld>
                \_ Aw!  I missed the drivel!  Damnit.
2002/3/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:24140 Activity:very high
3/16    Re: Politburo minutes-- what's the deal with alexf and no more
        e190 requirements for EECS majors?
        \_ The minutes were somewhat misleading. I made a public threat to
           drop out of the EECS major based exclusively on the E190
           requirement, with a crowd of ~50 EECS honors students and the
           department chairs listening. This was enough to initiate a
           discussion in the crowd whereby the chairs were unequivocally
           told that E190 is a bad idea, and both agreed that "something
           should probably be done about this." I never actually carried
           out the threat, but the chairs got more than a mouthful, and
           out the threat, but the chairs got more than an earful, and
           will probably get a more organized push at the faculty retreat.
           If all goes well, there's a fair probability that the E190 req
           will eventually be reformed or just go away. But don't hold
           your breath quite yet. -alexf
         \_ not to belittle your role in the eecs department
            (what it may be), but why should they care if one
            person drops out of their department?
            \_ That's a fair question, of course, and one that I do not
               feel comfortable answering fully on the motd. I do believe
               I've accummulated a bit of a reputation in the department, at
               least to the point that a move such as the above would attract
               substantial attention. This correlates reasonably with the
               reaction of at least Prof. Sastry (current EECS chair) at
               the dinner, and, I believe, would be similar for a number
               of others. -alexf
               \_ wait, i thought you were a math grad student
                  \_ Err? No, not unless there's something I don't know
                     about... Last time I checked, I was still an
                     undergrad (and mostly in EECS). -alexf
               \_ What is E190?
                  \_ "Technical Communication", a required class for everyone
                     in the College of Engineering.
           \_ So *why* is E190 a bad idea, exactly?  I took 190 voluntarily in
              1997; while I probably could've done just fine in later life
              without it, I found the course quite useful in helping me improve
              my clarity and succinctness while presenting technical material.
              Other people in my class entered the course as barely functional
              communicators, and left *vastly* improved.  Plus, E190 was
              fantastically easy.  Has 190 become more onerous since I took it,
              or is this an "this course is beneath me"/freedom-to-choose
              issue?  Just wondering.  -- kahogan
            \_ I took it in '99 and found it to be a good course that most EECS
               majors could benefit from. Just make sure you take it with the
               right prof (in other words: Phillipi)
               \_ I have him, and the only thing I've seen anyone learn yet
                  is how to be sarcarstic and belittling to others. -chialea
            \_ Yes, and yes. From talking from the few older people who
               bothered taking it before it became a requirement, it seems
               that the quality has indeed plummetted since then. Of the
               people who take the class now, 90-95% find it utterly useless
               and unproductive. Those who can write don't gain anything,
               and those who can't mostly stay that way. The instructors
               are, by common consensus, epsilon semi-morons, the material
               is largely, well, absent, and the grading is too
               indistinguishable from /dev/random. Fantastically easy?
               Perhaps in some sections, not in most. I and most others I've
               talked to find it a major nuisance simply due to time wasted
               on the assignments. ...And yes, I do believe that this course
               was beneath me and beneath virtually everyone else who gets
               forced to take it. -alexf
               \_ Given the communications ability of the typical geek on the
                  outside, it can't hurt.
                  \_ It doesn't help any, and hence hurts by wasting our
                     \_ Of course it helps.  If nothing else it lets the
                    skip E190.  Is this not the case?
                        failures know why their career is going nowhere later
                        on.  Communication is more important than anything
                        else outside the towers.  If you can't communicate
                        clearly and intelligently then your skills are
                     \_ OF COUR53 1T H3LP5!  1F NOTH1NG 3L53 1T L3T5 TH3
                        F41LUR35 KNOW WHY TH31R C4R33R 15 GO1NG NOWH3R3 L4T3R
                        ON!  COMMUN1C4T1ON 15 MOR3 1MPORT4NT TH4N 4NYTH1NG
                        3L53 OUT51D3 TH3 TOW3R5!  1F YOU C4N"T COMMUN1C4T3
                        CL34RLY 4ND 1NT3LL1G3NTLY TH3N YOUR 5K1LL5 4R3
                        WORTHL355, D00D!
               \_ as I recall, those who prove they can write beforehand can
                  skip E190.  Is this not the case?  I considered myself to
                  be one of "those who can write" before I took E190, but E190
                  improved my writing anyway.  I am now more conscious of
                  split-infinitives and dangling modifiers.  Furthermore,
                  there's the oral communication part of E190, which you seem
                  to have ignored.
                  \_ Use. Less. People either freeze up or already had a bit
                     of experience with public speaking. I personally am
                     a bit of a grammar nazi, and certainly didn't gain
                     anything from that section. If your English is so bad
                     to begin with, take an English class. Technical writing
                              \_ don't end a clause with a preposition.
                                \_ this is ok. just don't end sentences
                                   with prepositions.
                     should not be a grammar class. From what I've seen,
                     virtually everyone forgets it in a week anyways. -chialea
                           no clear antecedent _/            \_ not a word.
                     \_ my English was very good before I took E190, and I
                        learned more in E190 than I did in any of the English
                        classes I took.  English classes seem to focus more on
                        literature than on improving real grammar skills.
2002/2/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:23802 Activity:insanely high
2/7     Where can I find information on how my GPA stacks up to the rest
        of EECS?
        \_ ask tjb
        \_ These figures are approximate, but should at least be correct to
           within +/-0.1:
           75 percentile: 3.55
           50 percentile: 3.15
           25 percentile: 2.7
           This URL may also give some semi-usable numbers:
                \_ all I can see is that CS students do well in CS classes
                   and that EE students do well in EE classes, and that
                   transfer students have slightly lower grades. Nothing
                   new there.                   -hilfinger hater
                   \_ It also shows that L&S CS students get better grades than
                      EECS ones in the same classes.  But I think that's
                      because EECS curriculum is tougher.  -- L&S alum
           \_ I can't believe they gave out so many A+s, As and A-s.  I thought
              my GPA looked good, but now I think GPA is just inflated.
              \_ Grade inflation?  At Cal?  Oh Gosh!  No!  It would never
                 happen that Cal would grade inflate to keep up with the
                 sickening levels of inflation at the Ivys.  Oh no, not our
                 dearly beloved Cal which has been doing everything possible to
                 water down the value of a Cal diploma for the last few
                 decades.  GO BEAR!
                 \_ I didn't notice any grade inflation at Cal in the
                    early 1990s. This must be recent, along with the
                    ability to drop classes right up until the final.
                    (Is that ugly rumor really true?) --dim
                    |_ I agree with dim
                       \_ moi aussi
           \_ I don't remember seeing so many people get A- and above in the
              CS and EE classes back when I was in school (89-93).
           \_ I second that, but has anyone thought that it's possible
              that the courses just get easier?
2002/1/30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:23717 Activity:nil
1/29    Bush want 4000 hrs of "service" each and every one of us. How many
        CS162 projects is that equivalent to?
        \_ 2
           \_ dude, you must rock.  how did you get them done so fast?
        \_ It's funny.  Chinese used to do that 500+ years ago during
           the Ming Dynasty.  Of course, wealthy people who wants to get
           out of it was able to pay a fee of some sort.  Chinese
           discontinued such service during the Qin dynasty.
                                                \_ Qing
2002/1/22-23 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:23635 Activity:high
1/22    Anyone good taking-- or know someone good who's taking-- CS162
        this semester? I'm looking for a good partner... I'm planning
        on putting in enough work to get an A... I have real world
        programming experience and got an A in Hilfinger's 164 if that
        means anything to anyone.
        \_ You should really consider signing your posts.
        \_ how do people find partners these days (aside from old friends)
           \_ Same way they always did.  Turn to the person next to them if
              there's no one they know and trust in the class.
           \_ That's what I want to know... It doesn't seem that my motd
              approach is working. I took a year off school to go work, and
              now I'm back but don't know anyone and am afraid to get stuck
              with some slacker partner... or some know-nothing grade-monger.
              \_ yeah, its easy to get screwed by someone you don't know.
                 Do newsgroups still exist for classes?
                 \_ apparently not very active. Besides, I thought it might
                    be easier to find a competent partner within the csua for
                    some crazy reason.
        \_ go by the CSUA office and ask around, i did it with 170.
        \_ There used to be a file in /csua/<something> that I found somewhat
        \_ My roommate is taking 162 and wants to get an A.
           --as useless as the anonymous poster
           \_ If you're serious and he still needs a group, have him email
              me.               - rory
2002/1/8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:23486 Activity:very high
1/7     nweaver & djyoung, how do you guys deal with emacs & vi's key
        bindings when using the Dvorak keyboard?
        \_ global-set-key to something else?
           \_ you change the mappings at the OS level.
        \_ Is it any coincidence that two of the most annoying people that I
           met during my time in Berkeley EECS turn out to be hardcode
          \_ You haven't met enough annoying people in Berkeley EECS.
             \_ I think that you're confusing "weird" and "annoying".
         \_ How do you find djyoung to be annoying?  He's got be among one
            of the brightest guys I ever met at Cal.  I'm honored to have
            known him.  He could sleep through a boring lecture, not read
            the book and still ace the exams and labs.
            \_ You're confusing "dumb" with "annoying".  Smart people can
               be annoying.  Dumb people can be pleasant and fun to be with.
2001/12/11-12 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Recreation/Food] UID:23212 Activity:high
12/10   Check out starting salaries, job descriptions, and organizations
        for various majors (yes there are "food servers" in the humanities
        \_ looks like IB and english majors are suffering
           \_ I like the "Self Employed" guy who named himself "Vice
              President of Marketing and Sales".
        \_ So EECS and CS are still the highest.
                \_ This surprises you?
           \_ Go ask a salesperson at any reasonably succesful
              company in the valley how much he makes(base + commish).
              Chances are it'll be at least 2x what an EECS major from Cal at
              the same company makes.  I didn't think this was true until I
              had to find one for my company.
                \_ Go ask the rest of the salespeople who haven't been at it
                   for 15+ years and don't have a million contacts and don't
                   get sent to the best contracts, etc.  Yes, a sales jerk
                   *can* and often do make more than the typical EECS geek, but
                   the *average* sales jerk is eating cat food in his cold
                   flat on the bad side of town.  The marketing chick is still
                   overpaid.  Average EECS $$$ >> Average Sales Jerk $$$.
                   \_ cat food?
                        \_ Yes.  What are you questioning about it?
2001/11/24-27 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/Theory] UID:23094 Activity:insanely high
11/23   Can someone please tell me what textbook and/or author we used for:
        math50a, math55, and stat134? I need it from 1993-1995. THANKS!
        \_ let me guess, ypu're applying to MIT, right?
           \_ let me guess, you're also applying to MIT, right? Or are you
              already there? Help me out dude...
              \_ I'm applying. And I'm a dudette, btw. -chialea
                \_ where else are you applying to? Let's get together and
                   start a grad school application club!!!
                \_ chialea, what'd you get on your subject & general?
                   \_ stfu ilyas
                      \_ It wasn't me, moron.  I already know what she got.
                           -- ilyas
                   \_ bad things. especially the subject. and my GPA. -chialea
                        \_ 3.5 isn't bad considering the average GPA@Cal=2.3
                                      you're off by a full half-point _/
                ugh, you mean 2.8? 1.8? _/
             it's around 2.8 _/
                \_ Is that the average systemwide?  how about for CS?
        \_ _Discrete Mathematics and Its Applications_, Kenneth H. Rosen
           (Math 55), don't know the rest. -geordan
        \_ Math 50a is now Math 53, right? If so, Stewart's "Calculus:
           Early Transcendentals" was probably used.
        \_ no, 50a became 54.  for math 50a in spring 1994, we used anton,
           _elementary linear algebra_ and boyce & diprima, _elementary
           differential equations and boundary value problems_.   -lila
           \_ THANK YOU SO MUCH LILA, you've been very helpful. By the way,
              are these classes required for the "other" CS?
              \_ no, just math1b and cs61a.  i took math50a because i was
                 briefly under the delusion that i wanted to study physics,
                 and i took cs61b just for fun.   -lila
                 \_ well? Did you really have a lot of fun?
           \_ We used the same two books (different editions?) in Spring '97.
2001/11/21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:23068 Activity:low
11/19   What was the name of the CS60C book? Author or title please. Thanks.
        (btw this is for 1991-1994).
        \_ in fall 1995 we used carrano, _data abstraction and problem
           solving with c++: walls and mirrors_   -lila
           \_ Auugh!  Aauuuggggghhh!!! -geordan
        \_ Has a 60c/61b book ever been used for two semesters in a row?
           Are there really no good data structures books out there!?!?!
           I thought it was cool that K&Pike's "Practice of Programming" was
           used when Hilf taught it.
        \_ In Fall 1992 we used _Data Structures and Program Design
           in C_ by Kruse, Leung, and Tondo. Prentice Hall 1991
        \_ If I remember, in '93 we used CLR and some stupid C++/oop
           book I've banished from memory.
           \_ Fall 93 was CLR with the useless Deitel book.  -meyers
2001/10/21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:22788 Activity:high
10/21   You are required to know recursion before taking CS 61a?  Where
        would they learn it aside from CS 3?  AP CS?
        \_ I didn't know what recursion was my freshman year when I took
           61a. It took me all but 5 minutes to look it up in SICP and I
           passed the test. Never took CS 3 or AP CS.
           \_ Damn, you're cool!
              \_ Many people did the same. Maybe you're just !cool.
           \_ what language did you answer the question with?
              \_ C
        \_ manly men just do the inductive proof (2nd question).
           \_ This is no longer available. As of a couple of semesters ago,
              they changed the test to have 2 recursion questions only. Too
              many incompetent people made it into the class on induction and
              then had to be dragged along for the semester.
              \_ are you serious?  so people are forced to already know a
                 programming language (including pseudo-code), then?  that is
                 so dumb.
                 \_ Why is that dumb? That's what CS3 is for. If you think
                    CS3 is too slow paced and you're "bright", do what the
                    guy above did and spend a few hours reading up in on
                    recusion in any basic programming/cs textbook.
                    \_ the issue is not knowing recursion or not.  it's knowing
                       a programming language.  CS61A is not about learning
                       Scheme, and SICP isn't designed to "teach Scheme".  It's
                       stupid if you're expected to be able to express recursion
                       without knowing a programming language beforehand.
                       mathematical induction seems fine to me.  if students
                       have trouble, they should be discouraged from continuing
                       on (which is what we did when I was a 61A TA), but they
                       shouldn't be kicked out automatically.  of course, I
                       haven't seen any of the current entrance exams, so maybe
                       it's not as bad as I think.
2001/10/10-11 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:22685 Activity:high
10/11   officially, enrollment in cs61a DOWN 100 from last sem.
        \_ must be the recession, what those freshmen dont know is that by
           the time they graduate, we should(I hope) be ready for the next
           \_ The next boom won't be CS. Maybe some bio stuff.
        \_ GOOD. You should study computer science because you love it,
           not because it is lucrative                  -nweaver #2 fan
                                                         \_ Who is #1?
                                                            \_ yermom
                                                            \_ nweaver
                                                            \_ You are #6
              \_ They've been saying bio stuff for decades now.
                 \_ actually the next boom is all about getting homosexuals
                    the ablity to carry an embryo, fertilized from their gay
                    lover's sperm, in a body cavity, to term.
           \_ You should study something that you love *AND* that allows you
              to make a decent living ('lucrative' is even better).  I don't
              think that a CS major who got into CS for the money and who now
              hates his life/job is any worse of a person than an English
              Literature major who chose lit because of his undying love for
              deftly crafted prose and who now hates his life/job because he's
              a) living at subsistence level writing sardonic nuggets of wit
              for the Podunk Review, or b) doing something completely
              different (tech writing, flipping burgers) because he couldn't
              find a job that pays worth a damn.  nweaver and all the other
              "don't consider the money!" people can stuff it.
              \_ how about "something that will keep you happy in life"
                 \_ agreed.
                 \_ sex, and lots of it. when will they come up with the
                    "Sex Procurement" major?
                    \_ I unofficially minored in Women's Studies.
                       \_ I majored in Politically Unilateral Social
                          Science Youth.
              \_ There's also the effect that a few years in industry will
                 have on you to consider.  I loved it when I was in college,
                 and I loved it for a while after I started working, but
                 after a few years everything seems to suck.  You can burn
                 out in any field.
2001/8/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:22287 Activity:insanely high
8/29    In the past few years I've been hearing a lot of bad things about the
        quality of UCB EECS. I've heard that they're system level stupid
        (Java-centric), editor incompetent (pico), and non-UNIX savvy
        (M$ NT, MFC C++, etc). Is this true with the grad students?
        \_ Latest I've heard is that 162 (OS) is taught in Java now.
           \_ Holy shit!
        \_ Ya, but recently, students have been programming GUI's in 61b.
           That wasn't done too often 10 years ago.
        \_ We had an intern this summer (EECS Junior) who had trouble
           using the UNIX/Linux CLI (tar/gzip/make/cc). He used pico
           almost exclusively, but he knew his C and Perl quite well.
           I don't think that this is limited to Cal. We have some
           guys from UIUC who can barely use vi/make/cc correctly
           and struggle on systems without X11 but if you ask them
           to debug code they can do it quite well.
        \_ it's not the tool they use but how they use the tools.
           If you want Unix + emacs + gcc , you are just as locked
           from reality as the people you're attacking.
           \_ I've been in the industry for 8 years and I still use Unix and
              emacs everyday in all of the three jobs I've had.  I'm also using
              gcc in the third job right now.
           \_ replace "want" with "insist".  But then this has been an
              often beated down topic not worth revisiting.
        \_ i don't think it's the responsibility of a university to teach
           you how to use the programming tools of the day. it's job is
           to show you the big picture and understand the underlying
           concepts. it's assumed that you are smart enough that you
           could start using MFC correctly after 2 days even though
           you've been using Qt for 3 years. Fundamentally, there is
           nothing different between gcc+emacs+gdb/vc++, or gtk,qt/MFC,
           or C++,scheme/Java. If you don't know how to make the
           transition, you either missed the point of school, or you
           should be attending a vocational school. -ali.
        \_ Arrrrrrrrrrgh, matey!  UCB EECS today warn't nothin' like the
           swashbucklin' days of yore, when manly men like m'self walked
           the decks of Cory Hall!  Back then, we built our own calculatin'
           machines out of gears we milled ourselves from rods of iron!
           We 'programmed' 'em by movin' the gears into place with wooden
           sticks, powerin' the whole works by leather belts attached to a
           waterwheel!  Men could lose their fingers in works like that --
           you could tell the real 'hackers', because they were the ones
           walking around with nothing but stumps for hands.  Lily-livered
           Windows-usin' nancy-boys that they let waltz out of the program
           these days -- wait 'til they meet *me* 'round a dark corner
           \_ you had milling machines? you had waterweels?  jeez.  I remmember
              spending my first two years here running on a treadmill to
              power the machines for the upper division classes, and cutting
              gears out of mastadon tusks with bits of sharp rock.
           \_ and you'll what, club them with your stump?
           \_ you are right!  Try taking CS 164 with VT220 terminals.
              \_ Achoi could work on his 162 project with one VT220 terminal in
           \_ this is one of the funniest things I've seen on the motd in a
              while.  thanks for making my day.
           \_ HAHA!!! What planet are you from?
           \_ You didn't happen to write Myst and Riven did you?  That would
              explain all the inane puzzles....
              \_ Both Myst and Riven were written by Christian Fundies, what
                 more explanation do you need?
2001/8/21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool] UID:22193 Activity:insanely high
8/21    To ucb grad students: is applying to Berkeley CS different than EECS?
        I requested a CS applcation but EECS wrote back saying that they'll
        mail me an EECS application on September. But I do NOT want to apply
        for EECS, just CS. Thanks.
        \_ there are directions online.  We can't be bothered to answer your
           question.  Go to stanford, fucker.
        \_ I believe the grad school is just "EECS"  L&S CS is just for
           undergrads.  Are you intending to apply for grad or undergrad? -paolo
        \_ Yes, it's different.  The "CS" major is in the College of
           Letters & Science.  -tom
           \_ I'm talking about graduate school.
              \_ in that case i believe you have to go with EECS.
                 \_ to paraphrase Theo: "Perhaps you should stay clear of
                    discussions where the roles of graduate cs students --
                    especially what their responsibilities -- are being
                       \_ paolo, are you still deleting the motd every
                          3 minutes?  -tom
                          \_ only in your bizarre fantasy world, tom.
                    \_ Who the fuck is Theo and why should anyone give damn
                       what this incoherent motherfucker has to say?
           \_ tom, are you a grad student?
              \_ Uhm, why does this matter?
              \_ no.
2001/8/20 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:22192 Activity:nil
8/20    What's the relationship between Rob Nicolas and Kevin Mullaley?
        Are they boss/intern, boss/boss, unrelated???
        \_ You mangled the names, but they are unrelated.  Both are managers,
           have been here about 10 years, but manage different areas.
           (kevinm is instructional, robm is research)
           \_ close.  Kevin Mullaly and Rob McNicholas both for work for
              Pei Chen, EECS Computer Resources Manager.  Kevin runs
              EECS Instructional, Rob runs the EECS Computer User Support
              Group, the contract/recharge system support group.
2001/7/24 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:21926 Activity:very high
7/23    Is a CS 199 research project required for graduation in L&S?
        \_ for the standard CS degree, w/o honors, it is NOT required.
           pretty much nothing is "required" anymore. You just need
           enough EE, CS, or EECS units. - paolo
           \_ Have those UPE losers finally abolished the CS150 requirement
              too? -LSCS grad.
              \_ i can say for a fact i indeed know a CS graduate who walked
                 with me who did not have to take 150.  Unfortunately, I didn't
                 know they were going to drop the req, so i took it.  - paolo
                 \_ unfortunately?  I graduated without taking it and have
                    regretted it ever since.
                    \_ my opinion is that the class that semester was the
                       biggest waste of time i've had at cal.  YMMV - paolo
                       \_ Err.. 150 kicked ass.  Of course it totally depends
                          on what project you end up with (and therefore what
                          prof) --dbushong
                          \_ My 150 Sucked ass. Perhaps this had to do with the
                             lack of resources, and ta apathy to our broken
                             clock chip (oh and we had new boards that sem).
                             note that the prof's 61c ratings weren't very
                             good either.  Like i said, YMMV as things can
                             change a lot in a few years. - paolo (who would
                             have rather taken aiken/hilfingr 164 than 150).
                             \_ 150 kicked ass!  The semester I took it, we
                                even got to do something somewhat AI-related
                                (recognizing mouse pointers with a camera and
                                some hardware). -- ilyas
                                \_ I had Katz for 150 in Fa90.  We got to build
                                   a 4-bit computer with processor and memory
                                   from breadboards, 74xx's and copper wires.
                                   Although logic design isn't my most
                                   favorite subject (mine is OS), that was the
                                   best class I've ever had at Cal.  BTW now I
                                   regret I didn't take more classes before
                                   graduation.  -- yuen
        \_ 150 may be painful, bit IMHO, every EECS student should take it.
2001/6/22 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:21596 Activity:moderate
6/21    Does Berkeley have a CS MS program?
        \_ EECS MS.
           \_ Nope. You're under the EECS dept but your degree will be in CS
              or EE, not both.
2001/6/15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Finance] UID:21530 Activity:insanely high
6/15    So who is this kinney anyway?
        is just a picture with no details. finger kinney has no info
        \_ BA, cal physics.  doing phd in econ at usc starting fall.  Thinks
           most IT people are too lazy, and don't do much work.   Likes the
           web as the "common application interface".  Took EECS 126, 61B
           with hilfy., math 50A/B, econ 202A/B.  Smart math guy. Jon's age.
        \_ BA, cal physics. started off in chem E. switched to physics later.
           doing phd in econ at usc starting fall.  Thinks most IT people are
           too lazy, and don't do much work.   Likes the web as the "common
           application interface". took:EECS 120/L, 126, 61B with hilfy.,
           math 50A/B, econ 202A/B "because they were interesting." Smart
           math guy. Jon's age.
           \_ Smart math guy?  Give me a break.
                   \_ Ooooh, we got a "real" mathematician on our hands!
                   \_ I want to be a smart math guy when I grow up! -- ilyas
           \_ how'd he do in 61b?
              \_ he's not a cs guy.  nuff said.
           \_ I guess physics is a pretty good major if you are not good
              enough to get a engineering degree, but Econ?!? That's a
              drinking/golf major, big downgrade from phyiscs. I guess
              my question is answered, Kinney is YASL.
              \_ he thought ugrad econ was too easy.
              \_ have you ever taken a grad econ course? they're not the same
                 as undergrad econ.  It's about modelling systems using diff
                 eqs and other math tricks.   Have you taken a grad econ
                 course at Berkeley?  Taught by Brad De Long?   Or are you
                 yet another motd wanker(person who speaks from the arse)?
              \_ "Yet Another ... " ?
                 \_ Soda Luser
           \_ groupies at an Idiot Parade show (socal punk).
        \_ So who are the hookers? --dim
           \_ could someone please explain what's going on in that picture?
              maybe someone could narrate it?
           \_ groupies at an Idiot Parade show (socal punk band).
        \_ maybe we should ask kinney himself...
2001/6/7 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/HKN] UID:21451 Activity:nil
5/6 mmm. vadim and the tda.  Turn off java/javascript.

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Trevor_J. Buckingham <tjb@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>

For the last time,

  Will the individuals screwing with my account please stop, now.  This has
been going on for 3
years, and what have I done to deserve it?  Perhaps a more appropriate question

  Why are hatred and jealousy a way of life in the state of California?

Perhaps no question is appropriate and I should refer you to my resume.  To get
it, you will
have to purchase the The University of California's Mu Chapter Resume Book of
Eta Kappa Nu (for
$200).  That resume book is avialable on our webpage:

For the last time,

2001/6/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney] UID:21431 Activity:nil
6/5     What happened to AmIHotOrNot?
        \_ they changed the name to for marketing purposes
        \_ who is this person?
           Administrative Contact:
              James Hong
              229 Heartwood Lane
              Mountain View, CA 94041
           \_ That would be James Hong, who lives in Mountain View.
              Really, what kind of answer are you expecting? --Galen
           \_ That would also be jhong@{csua,hkn}, Cal EECS class of '95,
              one of the two founders of the company (other one being
              jimy@hkn, Cal EECS '94). What kind of answer are you expecting?
           \_ duh. - kinney
              \_ If we ignore you, will you go away? -- kinney #1 fan
                 \_ no, i'm bored and waiting for grad school to start in USC.
2001/3/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/GradSchool] UID:20812 Activity:high
3/15    What's the best way to study for CS Subject GRE? Thanks.
        \_ Take CS61ABC, CS162, CS164, CS170, CS...
                \_ Yeah right.  Like those teach you anything practical.
                   \_ What are you talking about? I solve NP-complete
                      problems all the time.
                   \_ The issue is not practicality. The issue is prepping
                      for the GRE.
                      \_ Almost none of which is the theoretical crap you get
                         from Berkeley CS.
        \_ take lotsa practice tests, review your 172/164 material, and
           know enough 150 to build a shift-adder - paolo (who took the GRE
        \_ last i recall, CS GRE isn't required for many graduate programs.
           but hey, doing well can look good on a resume too!
           \_ a lot of the top programs seem to require it.
2001/3/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:20792 Activity:low
3/14    Harvey supposedly did 162 in BSD a while back. I've heard
        everything from it being spectacular to it being a complete
        disaster.  Does anyone still have copies of the project
        assignments for that class (and lecture notes)?
        \_ Yes, I do.
2001/2/21 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20635 Activity:nil
2/20    hey, who's in 152 this semester?  just curious...
2001/2/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20616 Activity:kinda low
2/16    Is there no motd reader who has softcopies of hilfinger's 61b notes?
        I find this hard to believe.
        \_ I'm sorry, my dog ate it.  After he deleted it from my hard disk.
        \_ I have it.  Who are you?
           \_ could you e-mail them to me?  thanks. - jameslin
2001/2/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20604 Activity:high
2/15    I'm a EECS/C alumni. I've been writing SW for a while.  I'm thinking
        of switching to HW.  Doing digital/circuit/FPGA/ASIC design. Digital
        stuff, not analog.  Has anybody done this transition before?  I did
        pretty well in 150, 152, and 252.  I think I can handle it, but I'm
        asking for personal experiences.  Thanks.
        \_ you sick fuck, next you'll be in taking it up the ass from
           Drew Pertula, number 1 heehpohcreet!
        \_ you better get an advanced degree if you want to do hardware.
           you'll be competing with top notch architects from top notch sk00ls
           unless of course you wanna do verification (testing)... boring
           \_ industry sucks, academia rewls!!!
        \_ I did that. I was in LSCS and still inundated my schedule with
           many CS courses (many of which was required for my major) but
           also took 141, 150, 152, and 252. What most people don't realize
           is that hardware courses aren't that hard and when you get into
           the 152/252 material that's when it starts to get very
           interesting. I now work in a VLSI design group and have no
           regrets switching. -jeff
        \_ Considering all the .com fall-outs this might not be a bad idea--
           Software is over-crowded right now.  Hardware is the way to go.
           \_ hardware has its own problems. there are good opportunities but
              geographically you're more limited on where to work. also it is
              not as free in what you do; the problems are often very well
              defined and the focus is on efficiency and optimization rather
              than open-ended creativity.
              \_ Optimization takes a lot of creativity.
        \_ It's probably hard to get a job as a newby logic guy if you're
           a few years out of school.  It's probably impossible to get a
           job as a non-newby logic guy, so you'll have to deal with the
           loss of $ and responsibility.  It might be easier to do an
           intermediate jump to design verification before you try to make
           the logic leap.
           \_ Not completely true. My co-worker never did verification.
              Straight out of college he did DFT engineering and is now
              a logic designer. I've been doing verification for about
              7 months or so and will soon start on logic design myself
              (I graduated last year). You just need to tell your boss
              that you're interested in doing other things aside from
              verification. Good designers usually have done some
              verification themseleves. -jeff
              \_ I merely observed that sw->dv->logic is an easier leap
                 than sw->logic.  I don't believe your experience
                 contradicts (or is even relevant to) that.  In addition,
                 dv and logic usual belong to the same organization, so it's
                 relatively easier to transfer from one to the other.  sw
                 and logic usually are in separate organizations, so a
                 transfer is probably more difficult.
                 \_ in a small organization, sw,dv,logic,testing,customer
                    support is a one man job...
2001/2/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20603 Activity:high
2/14    does anyone have copies of hilfinger's 61b notes, in postscript or
        pdf form?  thanks.
        \_ - set them
           up when i was librarian - paolo
           \_ contrary to what the library page says, these notes are for 61A,
              not B.
              \_ why, they are.  ugh. my bad.  i will fix the page.
2001/1/28-31 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:20454 Activity:moderate
01/27   EE department is teaching a course on intro to embedded programming/RTOS,
        as EE 290-O (letter O). Prereqs listed as "knowledge of C and familiarity
        with OS basics" -- presumably ~162.
        TuTh9:30-11 / 531 Cory / Christof Kirsch <cm@eecs>
        \_ Can non-students audit the class or simply sit in the lectures?  I
           heard that Cory Hall requires card key access these days.  -- yuen
           \_ Card key access is for after hours and labs.
           \_ It should not be cardkeyed in the morning (that's 9:30-11 AM, of
              course). The prof is unlikely to mind an auditor or two, but
              you should email the prof directly to know for sure. -alexf
           \_ Card key access is for after hours, labs, and the colossal sexual
              encounters that occur there.
              \_ And if you're lucky you might see Hilfinger step out of his
                 shower stall.
                 \_ ew
                    \_ That's no slide rule he's holding.
              \_ Why do you think the first floor sounds like a vibrator?
2001/1/18-19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20364 Activity:high
1/18    Which is more difficult: getting into L&S CS or getting into EECS
        (from L&S undeclared) ?
        \_ Weaseling out of things is an important skill to learn. It
           separates us humans from the animals. Except the weasels.
           \_ I hardly see applying to L&S CS as "weaseling out" of applying
              to transfer to EECS.
              \_ I think that was meant to refer to weaseling being in
                 the other direction, but that doesn't seem particularly
                 applicable either considering how rarely this is permitted.
                 \_ Actually, I was just making a reference to something
                    that Homer Simpson said. It had nothing to do with
                    LSCS or EECS. -original weasel poster
        \_ The latter by far, unless you have some very unusual circumstances.
           Compare ~50 per semester vs ~5 per year. And people who transfer
           L&S->CoE are often already declared. Granted, not as many people
           _attempt_ the latter, but it's still likely to be much harder. -alexf
           _attempt_ the latter, but it's still likely to be much harder.
        \_ Be the shit in L&S CS and EECS will welcome you into their arms
           at the end of your third year.
           \_ Be like trevor buckingham.
2001/1/6-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20257 Activity:high
1/5     I'm looking for the following incidents in a decent digital format
        Letterman vs. Simmons - Simmons as giant turkey
        Romanian Bank Robbers vs. LA cops (1998)
        The Play
                   \_ try again.
                       \_ yuck.  we need high resolution.  we need audio.
                          i haven't seen a decent stream yet.
                \_ This is kinda pathetic.  Someone should've made a good
                   version ages ago.
                   is pretty good.  -John
        \_ I've got a quicktime of The Play but it's not exactly the best
           quality; I can mail it to you if you want -hjkim
        \_ patterson@cs has The Play in RA format or something to that extent;
           shows it on last day of 61C every time he teaches it
                \_ RA format is only useful for broadcast.  MPEG is more
                   likely for local video archives.
                   \_ "Useful for" != "used for"
                        (you didn't specify audio or video)
           \_ Actually, Patterson's copy is on video tape.
              - seen Patterson's last lecture twice
        \_ The RIAA is going to kick your ass.
2000/12/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20057 Activity:low
5/15    What do people think of 164 with Rowe this semester?
        \_ Better than 162 with Smith!
                \_ Anything is better than 162 with Smith.  Unfortately with
                        just him & Harvey teaching 162 now, everyone's
                   \_ Harvey doesn't really teach, per se.  He preaches his
                      religion to unsuspecting freshmen and chows on the
                      potstickers and is pretty much just worthless.
                              \_  Coach LUvitz!!!!!
                      \_ is he still sleeping with Randy?
                          \_ Randy Katz?  The dept. chair?  I don't think so.
                           \_ I think this fool means Brandy (not Randi who
                              is the person they are confusing Brandy with
                              and probably not Randy as in Randy Katz)
                      \_ INFIDEL!!!  HERETIC!!1!  I fondly remember taking
                         162 from bh.  Especially those nights when we'd all
                         gather around the big, silent bulk of the PDP-10 in
                         the machine room, heads bowed to its greatness . . .
                         then bh would pour the vodka, and we'd munch on
                         potstickers and talk for _hours_ about the imminent
                         coming of the Glorious People's GNU-LISP Revolution
                         that would sweep like a cleansing wave!  Some nights
                         we'd watch Animanics and listen to the Beatles until
                         dawn.  Then we'd shatter our vodka glasses against
                         the wall and weave our way home, staggering up the
                         middle of Hearst singing Russian peasant drinking
                         songs . . . I didn't learn much about operating
                         \_ Did you save this text snippet and use it
                            whenever bh comes up as a topic of discussion?
                         systems, but damn, I learned about _life_.
                         \_ I didn't know the motd had re-runs.
                                \_ sounds like something out of a cheezy
                                   movie, like "the dead poet's society"
                                   gone bad.  man, I guess that guy
                                   didn't get laid the whole time.
2000/12/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:20005 Activity:high 66%like:20000
12/5    What do ugly TAs earn at Berkeley? thankx!!!
        \_ sex with ugly profs.
                    \_ redundant.
                       \_ there was a attractive female prof. in ME
                          while I was at cal (married though). There
                          was an okay one in physics and southeast
                          asian (indian) studies. I think there may
                          have been a few more in chem.
                          \_ I guess I took all the wrong classes. Who was
                             that professor for CS60C back in '93 who looked
                             like a man?
                             \_ Katherine Yelick.
                             \_ Paul Hilfinger
                             \_ I was merely pointing out that the word
                          novels, starting with the Maltese Falcon.
                                "ugly" is not reduntant.
                                In general I agree with the assessment
                                that female profs at cal are unattractive,
                                but there are exceptions.
                       \_ My English 1B professor was quite a babe.
                          She made us read all these hard-boiled detective
                          novels, starting with the Maltese Falcon.  I
                          suck at the class though.  The conclusions of
                          my essays always have the comment "This would
                          have made a great thesis.  You should have started
                          from here."  That made me really frustrated
                          and angry, and want to boink her even more.
2000/11/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19927 Activity:moderate 50%like:19508
11/27   Poll (use dot please):
        CS164 should be 4 units --++-> ....
                                  ||     <---- Buchanan
                                  ++-> .
        CS164 should be 5 units ---+
        \_ uh, so people think 164 should be more units than 162?  huh?
2000/10/31-11/1 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19611 Activity:moderate
10/30   For those of you unfortunate enough to have selected UC Berkeley
        for your undergraduate CS *cough* education, you will want to
        check out:
        "Our goal is to offer the world's best computer science education,
        at an undergraduate level, to people who are currently unable to
        obtain it."  (Berkeley undergrads match this criterion)
        \_ I got my medical degree that way.  I can now legally perform over
           137 operations in this country, Haiti, and seven other islands.
        \_ shut up paolo
        \_ heh heh.  heh.
           \_ I think that its 4700. It was 4500 when I applied (93).
        \_ may not have anything to do with the original post but,
              4850 (he had 4870).
           what's the current academic index needed to get into
           EECS?  What GPA do you need to get into L&S, CS?
           \_ I think that its 7700. It was 7500 when I applied (93).
              From what my brother tells me BioE had the highest at
              7850 (he had 7870).
              \_ I thought index = GPA*1000 + SAT Verbal + SAT Math +
                 Achievement Test English + 2 other Achievement Tests?
                 That's around 8000 or so in the old days...
                 \_ Oops, I wrote 4 instead of 7. Fixed.
        \_ It's GPA*1000 + SAT I + 3 SAT II's (formally called Achievements)
           math and English comprising two of the SAT II tests. ~7340 was
           required for automatic admission back in '96, but I think they got
           rid of automatic admission two years go.
        \_ The problem with the concept is it suposedly gives it to
           people otherwise "unable to obtain it".
           The most common factor for this is money. But if you need
           money, you probably will NOT be able to dedicated an entire
           year of your life solely to this program, and not to making
           money keeping yourself in rent and foot. Which is what
           presumably would be neccessary for this  "one intense year."
2000/10/27-28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19586 Activity:insanely high
10/27   I have seen lots of cheating while in Berkeley.  Do any of you cheat?
        If so, how, why do you did it, and do you think it is justified?
        \_ in four years as a double major i never cheated.  no one i know
           in math or physics ever cheated.  cheating is for people in
           college for the degree only.
           \_ I.e. Business, Econ, IEOR
        \_ i sifted through garbage bins for a 61b project...and succeeded.
           it saved my ass b/c without it, I wouldn't have passed
           with the c+ i got from dear old clancy.  I left cs immediately
           after that for my own good.  I have no compunctions about this
           because there was no fucking way I was going to get an F or
           D and have to go through the whole debacle again.  That was the
           one and only time I did and I will forever relieved that I did.
           \_ How the hell can you get anything but an A/A+ in the class?
        \_ Cheating is so easy. Look over someone's shoulders during an
           exam.  Sit in a corner where you're least likely to be noticed
           reading a cheatsheet under your calculator.  Sift thru the
           recycle bins for discarded printouts of code.  Share.
           \_ Actually, I've seen the guys with 48gs just scan the
              relavent info into their computers and upload it to
              their calc. Alas, if only we were all rich...
                \_ Duh.  Borrow one, stupid.  Don't bitch that you're poor and
                   at some odd disadvantage to "those evil white rich guys!"
                                                \_ yeah! I hate those guys!!
                                                   usually a frat boy, too,
                                                   like George Bush
                                                   \_ At least GB didn't flunk
                                                      out like AG did.  Twice.
                \_ Well, I never had to resort to such means and I still
                   did okay (ave. GPA overall, above average upper div),
                   my lament simply was that if we were all rich we could
                   have a bunch of toys to play with instead of studying.
                   I have never envied rich people, in fact I feel sorry
                   for people who have to rely on wealth to get them
                   through life, I will always have an advantage over them.
                   \_ Keep telling yourself that.
        \_ Yeah, just become a TA and your admiring female students will love
           to shake you down for a good grade.  Don't tell your SO.
           \_ This doesn't work. I was a TA and the female students never
              offered me anything to improve their grades. Not even the
              ugly ones. And I would have gone for the ugly ones.
        \_ I never cheated in CS.  Which is wise since Aiken has that
           anti-cheat code-checking program.
                \_ um, it doesn't work all that well :) It's a device of
                   intimidation but nothing else. I got away in 3 of my
                   upper div classes including his.
        \_ It depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
        \_ i cheated on some math tests because they didn't allow us cheat
           sheets and i thought it was stupid to spend my time memorizing
           a list of equations.
        \_ I remember this music appreciation class (forgot the number).
           A friend of mine took it with me because it's supposed to be an easy
           class, but he found out that he was really bad at it (recognizing
           tunes and such), so he asked me to help him cheat during the
           multiple choice final.
           \_ Thanks for coming out here with your confession.
              You got somewhere to go now.  Now let me show you the shape of
              my heart.
        \_ Thanks for all the great answers everybody. --Aiken
           \_ soda% finger aiken
              finger: aiken: no such user
              \_ Prof. Aiken is a 3133T H@X0R! He's posting via his
                 R00T SH311! He's the one who OWNZ M$!
                 \_ My LR(k) is bigger than your LALR(1)        -aiken
                 \_ I doubt that.
                    \_ He's sooo 3133T that he seems to be a luser.
                       \_ Is that like, yermom is so slutty that she's
                          actually a real hottie?
                          \_ No its not like a unsigned wrapping around.
                             Ever read the BUFH chronicles? He's sooo
                             3133T that the BOFH can't tell him from a
2000/10/27-28 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:19578 Activity:very high
10/26   Ugh, got a closed book closed notes exam, but I can bring ONE
        sheet of double side notes. Does that mean I can bring any sheet,
        like a 20"X16" double sided sheet? I'm not trolling.
        \_ bring this:
        \_ Actually, it means that you should go to crate and barrel and
           purchase a large roll of butcher paper and xerox the entire
           book onto it and then bring it with you. DUH!
           \_ Microfiche.
        \_ hand-written? Or can you type it up and use abbreviations and
           then use a Xerox machine to reduce it? That's what I did for
           my poli-sci class. They gave the 8 essay questions beforehand
           and said 5 of these will be on the exam and you get to choose
           any 3 of them to answer. But can bring one 8.5x11" piece of paper.
           I prepared all my answers before the exam and spent the entire
           exam just copying text into my bluebook. Filled up the entire
           bluebook plus the back inside cover.
        \_ but in reality, how many of you used those sheets?  Maybe
           all you needed was the comfort in having that sheet, and the
           trouble not having to memorize a few number of formulas.
             \_ there's only one occasion when bringing that piece of
                crap actually helped me.  on my two physics 7b midterms,
                it just so happened that the exact example of a refraction
                problem copied out of a schaum's outline was on the test,
                (except for the numbers of course), and on another, the
                I had the equation for some Hydrogen  quantum bs equation
                on my cheat.  it was awesome b/c I way above mean on both,
                beating out the nerds who usually kicked my ass on exams.
                unfortunately, i got totally fucked on my final, but
                the glory was fun while it lasted.  nothing like a good ego
                boost during the dark physics 7 series days.  you should
                always go for closed book since the effort to
                memorize stuff is minimal, prevents from getting totally
                trashed on an open-book which is supposed to be "easy."
                \_ Open book can be easier depending on the prof. Olander,
                   in NE and Komvopolus (sp?), Pruitt in ME, Gronsky,
           tested, make it close book. This one or two pages only stuff
                   Weber in MSE gave open book exams that were pretty
                   easy. Their exams would have been next to impossible
                   had they been closed book since there was always too
                   much to memorize. ----ranga
           \_ I usually found that creating the "cheat" sheet helped me
              more than the actual cheat sheet. Though in some ME classes
              the formulas came in handy. ----ranga
        \_ These are my favorite exam rules.  No having to book-flip to
           search for stuff, and no memorizing of stupid formulae.  Just
           put down the key stuff in the class which let you figure anything
           else out and don't worry.  --PeterM
           \_ The other one (which I personally like) is having created
              or extracted a good 1-2 page appendix (EG, the back inside
              cover of P&H for 61c), which is included with the exam.
              A little more work in some respects, but very useful for

              the students without the chaos of an open book test. -nweaver
        \_ This is my absolute LEAST favorite exam rules. Look, if you want
           to make a hard exam testing concepts, gimme open book/open notes
           and I'll bookmark pages, mark-up lecture notes, whatever. If you
           want to give an easier exam where some memorization is being
           tested, make it closed book. This one or two pages only stuff
           just turns the whole thing into some game where people try and
           cram as much onto one sheet as possible... and the prof thinks
           he can ask open-book-type questions because "you should have
           written that important fact down." Grrr... I hate them.
                \_ the other option which i liked better were the classes
                   that gave everyone the same cheat sheet attached to the
                   exam.  why make people memorize a ton of equations and
                   why be unfair about cheat sheets?  everybody knows ahead
                   of time what they'll be provided with and everybody has
                   access to all the same info during the exam...
           \_ I agree.  I refused to play the game and brought in 2 pages
              of notes with huge handwriting.  When the TA gave me trouble,
              I told him to compare the number of bits on my two sheets with
              the number of bits on the cram sheet of the person in front of
              me with microscopic handwritting.  The TA gave up eventually.
              \_ Actually I'd have walked up to you and said, "Which page
                 do you want?  You can only keep one."  And if you kept
                 going on your two page thing I'd just fail you.  Seriously.
                 Unless you seemed to have a genuine, non-renegade,
                 non-protest reason for bringing in two pages. But anyways,
                 this was just to balance your remarks.
                 \_ Because I have a vision problem and you're discriminating
                    against me and everyone like me.  -!not the two sheet person
           \_ Anyone who *needs* to bring in a sheet with teeny-tiny little
              writing on it is screwed anyway.  I handwrote all my cheatsheets
              in normal writing and usually had about half a side left.
                  \_ i don't think most people really need them.  it's
                     just an OK but rather time-consuming way to study for
                     an exam as you are writing the notes.  keep in mind
                     that cal professors in engineering are mostly looking
                     for understanding, and not the amount of crap that
                     you blindly memorized.
                     \_ Depends on the department. Some profs. in MSE
                        really were interesed in whether or not your could
                        memorize stuff from the book.
2000/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19489 Activity:high
        \_ 1 *Michael Constant (cs61b-oi) 5 49246 sec. 6
           i think mconst wants to be cool. but this is not cool, using
          cs61b account as login. it's not cool.
           cs61b account as login. it's not cool. -ali
           \_ I had ctest-aa, but it didn't work (the home directory wasn't
              owned by the account), so I told Hilfinger and he gave me a
              random 61B account instead.  --mconst
              \_ ok. that's very cool. i was wrong. -ali
                 \_ Go home ali. -- ali #1 fan
              \_ This is true, 61b accounts that start with -o tend
                 to be reserved for "other" usage. -former 61b TA
           \_ Perhaps you could ask why he had to use one.  #1 MCONST FAN!!!!
              \_ you're right. i just assumed he was trying to show off.
2000/9/12-14 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19231 Activity:kinda low
9/12    Do you think Berkeley CS or EECS has grade inflation or deflation?
        I'm talking about Undergrad.
        \_ It's a "fact" that grades are inflated at Berkeley in general, and
           EECS/CS in particular. Average ugrad GPA was like 3.06 and EECS was
           3.2. I think CS was 3.4 or something but that's partially because
           CS rejects major in applied math or cog sci. But the average GPA is
           supposed to be around a 2.7. There was a DailyCal article with all
           these stats about a year ago.
           \_ Having studied in several departments, I can tell you without
              qualification that EECS students are a cut above most of the
              campus.  If they have a higher ave. GPA, they've earned it.
              Probably by kicking ass in non-EECS classes, possibly by
              having to jump a huge bar to get into EECS.  --PeterM
              \_ damn, when I was in school, the ave. was ~ 2.5
                 for engineers, with ud only ave. ~ 3.1.
                 \_ Bullshit. What year did you graduate?
              kicking people out has NOTHING to dowith those grades.
                    \_ 97 and I said engineers, not just EECS.
                       \_ Bullshit. The article I read was written in 1999
                          (I think) and 3.1 was the average eng GPA. The data
                          probably came from '98 grads.
                          \_ I guess I'm below ave. then. Oh well...
                             I wonder how many of those ave. eng. have patents
                             and wrote books since graduating? Perhaps GPA
                             isn't everything...
           \_ uhh, of course the fact that EECS tends to be aggresive about
              kicking people out has NOTHING to do with those grades.
              \_ EECS kicks people out after 4/5 years, not for bad grades.
                 My friend graduated with a 2.46.
                 \_ I think he meant weeding the weak folks out during the
                    first two years.
                    \_ This is completely inaccurate.  Some of the weak (and
                       arguably a whole lot more strong folks who get bounced
                       out by weak folks playing GPA games) get weeded from
                       L&S CS, but very few EECS majors get weeded.  It's
                       REALLY hard to flunk out of EECS.
                       \_ I agree.  By any standards, I tried pretty hard.
                          I think for all my classes in 4 years at Cal I
                          went to a total of maybe 50 lectures.
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18929 Activity:high
8/8     How well do UCB EECS and CS newgrads know C/C++? (in general)
        \_ If it makes you feel any better, Stanford undergrads start out
           take 3 quarters of "Introductory Programming" in C instead of
        \_ on average, better than other schools' new grads, with a
           lot more upside
        \_ That's right.  They stopped teaching C/C++ in 61B in favor
           of Java right?  So you have to learn C/C++ somewhere else
           or in 61C or the upper division classes.
        \_ Well, they know VB and VC++. They know java 1.1 and some swing.
           they should know ansi C.  That's it.
           \_ If you don't know what you're talking about, shut the fuck
              up. No one here teaches V-anything except for the occasional
              160/169 lab group that picks it up on their own. Swing isn't
              taught almost at all either.
              \_ you are stupid.  Look at the original question.  you _must_
                 be a class of 2k|2k+ grad.  Say, nerdboy, he asked what do
                 you _know_ now what you are _taught_ and if you've been a
                 good little nerd eecs boy then you've had internships, and
                 guess what you're learning on those internships?  It ain't
                 BSD. (and don't bother erasing this, I've got a perlscript
                 to keep placing it back).
                 \_ last I remember, people were concerned about learning
                    asp, jsp, servets, and oracle stuff.  This was more
                    of a concern than C, C++.  I assume they'd know C from
                    60b, or 61c.  And some C++ (but not much about templates
                    and certainly not much about makefiles. - paolo
           \_ C/C++ is dead. Everybody is learning the new Microsoft
              Language C- --social science major
        \_ Many classes still use C++.  Also, really, a berkeley grad should
           be able to learn languages quickly. -nweaver
           \_ Indeed.  I learned LISP from scratch (with no prior LISP/ELISP/
              Scheme knowledge) in a few days when I took my CS164 which used
              LISP to write the compiler.
              \_ When(/where?) was this?
              \_ Now you are ready to learn K   -muchandr
        \_ Well, C++ the OOP language is getting whacked by Java
        mindshare-wise. I think the GP stuff might grow popular enough to
        give it a new start though. We'll see.  -muchandr
2000/8/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, ERROR, uid:18868, category id '31298#2.5' has no name! , ] UID:18868 Activity:high
8/3     i am a 61a student working on a project.  someone told me it would
        be useful for me to use a "slashdot" in my code.  what is a slashdot?
        \_ when you are filled with justified anger and rant about some
           linux issue when it is obivous you don't know what the fuck you
           talking about?
           \_ How can it be justified if they don't know what the fuck they're
              talking about?  And /. posters are morons about more than linux.
               \_ uh DUHOY that was the whole fucking point you pathetic
                  excuse for a moron.
                  \_ The whole point was that your statement conflicts with
                     itself?  OK!
                     \_ aren't too bright are ya?
        \_ You misheard me. I said use "pound bang" -- someone
        \_ Slashdot got into your brain.
2000/7/19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18723 Activity:high
7/19    Anyone have any suggestions on business-use color inkjets
        better than the $150 Epsons?  Thanks.
        \_ man printer
        \_ if you don't mind black and white, why not try Laser Printers?
           \_ Need color.
                \_ there are laser color printers as well.  Expensive,
                   but they exist.  Go for the high end inkjets as an alt.
                   (forgot which magazine had a review on them.
                    might have been PC magazine several months back.
                    perhaps check their website)
2000/5/30-6/1 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18365 Activity:moderate
5/30    Anybody have an example of how to use emacs in batch mode?  I have
        a bunch of files I want worked on inside emacs and I want to do so
        in a non-interactive fashion.  Thanks.
        \_ emacs --batch --load program.el
           \_ Err...  I know how to invoke it, I'm looking for an example of
              "program.el".  Thanks.
          \_ i've always thought it really lame that you couldn't specify
             elisp on the command line. or at least the name of a thunk.
             \_ emacs -f moo
             \_ Thunk?  Thunks??  OHMYGOD!!!! cs61a flashbaaaaaaaaaaaack!
                you bastard!!!
                \_ loser
                   \_ poser
                \_ 61a?  What's that?  -60a
                        \_ you mean 60b
                           \_ 60a       -->     61a
                              60b       -->     61c
                              60c       -->     61b
                   \_ does math 55 still exist?
                      \_ Yes, but 55 is being made a requirement for math.
                         Consequently, it is emphasizes CS applications less
                         than it did in days past.  The CS department has
                         created a new class, CS 70 to fill the gap.  Word is,
                                        \_ Hmm, I thought CS 70 was created
                                           as an "honors" version of 55...?
                         CS 70 kicks ass. -dans
                         \_ Will be a cold day in hell when Math Dept makes
                            55 a major requirement. CS 70, on the other hand,
                                        \_ ISTR Demmel claiming in front of
                                           all the CS faculty that they'd
                                           done just that... -brg
                            kicks royal ass.
                              -alexf the First Ever CS70 Reader & Misc Gimp (tm)
        \- you can send elisp expression to emacs with gnuclient/gnudoit.
                you dont have to do anything special to the "program.el" ...
                although you need to be carful about input/output and what
                init files are loaded. --psb
        \_ ed
           \_ Oh great ed god!!!  Please tell me how to use ed-mode in ed from
              the command line!!!
2000/5/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18171 Activity:moderate
4/34    Do I want to take 162 from Smith next semester? ISTR somebody saying
        something bad about him. Comments?
        \_ He's only the worst teacher in the department. You learn about
           hardware that was popular in the 1970's from the world's most
           boring man. Sure, you can still learn a lot from the course, but
           none of your learning will be attributable to him. His tests are
           very straightforward, but don't really show much in terms of real
           \_ I remember his final exam was full of hard disk data questions
              and only one or 2 questions on networking.
           \_ aren't they all boring men except for maybe coach luvitz..woops,
              i mean harvey?   Or maybe clancy is ok except that he
              will fuck you hard when you least expect it.
              \_ Harvey teaches 162?
        \_ smith is a beotch!
2000/4/19-20 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18059 Activity:nil
4/18    Looking for recomendations for laptop bags. Let's say, less than
        $150; but if there is a convincing reason to go higher, i will.
        \_ I have an old IBM one I really like, but most people find them
           too bulky (I carry loads of stuff.)  Port makes some pretty
           robust bags, but they don't have a lot of compartments.  -John
        \_ Just go to Macy's.  Tumi.
2000/4/7-9 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:17946 Activity:nil
4/7     Has anyone had positive experiences with a commercial web host
        that offers 10+ megs of storage and 10+ gigs of transfer/month?
        Don't want to run my own server but sick of paying $150/month.
        \_ I've done alright with <DEAD><DEAD> (100MB storage for about
        $40 a month). Their web admin interface kind of sucks tho.
2000/3/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17683 Activity:insanely high
3/2     so, do you think i could get off on the grounds of justifiable
        homicide if i were to murder my project partners?  they'd be more
        useful as corpses.
        \_ you have no idea what bad project partners are.  i've had
           partners that were so flat out lazy they didn't touch a single
           line of code the entire semester, partners that dropped the class
           without telling, partners that switched groups without telling,
           and partners that were so stupid that it makes you wonder how
           they ever got into this school.  and then there was my 152 partner
           who was just about the worst partner ever.  be happy that you
           have bad partners, not sadistic shity ones.  -jeff
                \_ haven't a couple of people have had project partners who
                        were in jail?
        \_ poor thing.  So what did they do?
        \_ Easily.  Just call Paolo as a character witness. -dans
                \_ paolo would be more useful as a corpse.
                   \_ Hey, that's mean!
                      \_ CSUA, we're petty and vindictive so you don't have to
                         be.  But seriously, ask Paolo about the PhilipBox or
                         the Walrus some time.  Two of the more heinous
                         partners in the history of CS. -dans
        \_ you are not allowed to complain until you have randi as a
           partner.  Or that stupid bitch who deleted all of our 162
           mutlprocessing project 2 days before it was due.
                \_ When I was a lab assistant for 60A this chick goes into a
                   panic and is so desperate she insists on dragging me away
                   from my netrek game.  She's typed "rm * .bak" in their
                                         \_ She typed
                   shared project directory.  She's lucky that A) I don't kill
                                                                  \_ I didn't
                   her, B) her partner isn't around to see this, C) she had
                   every single file loaded in emacs, D) I was kind enough to
                   save them out for her and E) not kill her for screwing up
                   \_ save them for her         \_ that I didn't kill her
                   a perfectly good base ogg.  She asks me to walk her home
                                        \_ what the hell is a "base ogg"
                                           \_ learn to speak english.
                   then panics at the door.  Never help a Sterny.
                   \_ How good she speak English?
                        \_ Korean but not ESL.
                           \_ I think (s)he was making fun of your English.
                                \_ s/he needs to try again.  Compared to most
                                   of the crap on the motd, my English was
                                   perfect.  Don't even get me started on this
                                   as "Standard American English" is only an
                                   ideal in both written and spoken forms.
                                        -linguistics alumni
                                \_ I'm using the present tense so that stuff
                                   is bullshit.  If you don't know what a base
                                   ogg is, maybe one of the other 50+ netrek
                                   players can help you.  Still waiting to see
                                   a real problem with what I wrote.
                                   \_ Well, you seem to be mixing tenses
                                      and "she's typed" isn't proper English.
                                      \_ Yes it is.  It is a contraction of "She
                                         has typed" and is perfectly fine in the
                                         present tense.  It is very common in
             \_ at least she just didn't do squat, instead of destroying
                your project.  And nick, I seem to remember she sorta
                joined our group after the second project or so.  (I say
                sorta cause noone wanted her around but the idiot who nuked
                our directory that one time, but hey, she kept on comming
                to our group meetings).
                                         informal narratives to revert to
                                         present tense.  Annoying, but common
                                         \_ Sorry for being annoying but it's

                                            still acceptable/common.
                           \_ Korean?  Was it sky's gf?
                   \_ You helped her?  That's just wrong.  Idiots should pay
                      the idiot penalty carried by their actions until such
                      time that they learn something, thus ceasing to be an
                      idiot, or they make a mistake so horrible that they die
                      from it.  Either way, one less idiot. -dans
                        \_ Of course.  She was better looking than the girl I
                           was with at the time.  Virginal, though.  Hate that.
                           \_ How long have pretty girls been taking
                              advantage of your idiocy?
                                \_ Nah, I was there.  She turned pale and
                                   panicked at the key moment.  She was too
                                   naive to know what she was doing.  I've
                                   been an idiot before but this wasn't it.
                           \_ Your quest to decrease the number of virgins in
                              the world is a noble one.  Nevertheless, since
                              you failed in this particular instance, I think
                              you should have sided with my quest to rid the
                              world of idiots. -dans
                                \_ Hey, I had to try.  How else to know?  I
                                   didn't help her after that if it makes you
                                   feel any better.
          \_ randi was my partner in 162.  I think this tops anything anyone
             could possibly complain about.
                \_ Hi andrew
                   \_ Hi nick
          \_ Some of the blame rests on classes which _require_ you to work in
             a group, creating artificial demand for the stupid as project
          \_ OK, I will toss in Donald Horton, who didn't nothing but write
             C++ .h files defining how his beautiful, elegant, and totally
             worthless classes would interface, then when asked to write
             one trivial piece of code, decided he didn't need to cvs update
             first, and when it complained about conflicts putting his 10
             lines of code into the multi-thousand-line file, he just
             nazi's his copy (without the weeks worth of changes) over the
             top of it and checks it in.  Needless to say, his account went
                \_ CVS?  In the old days we could only dream of having a stupid
                   partner munch our files with CVS....
2000/1/1 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:17142 Activity:nil
12/31   According to as of 11:08 PM
        Most links will
        not work during this time
        It seems as if most servers (including are still
        online.  Even EECS Instructional.  I guess most campus administrators
        are not as idiotic as I thought.
1999/11/4-5 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:16825 Activity:high
11/3    Job opening for students on University Ave. Can start now or in
        January. See /csua/pub/jobs/ACT for more details.
        \_ You are dreaming/smoking if you think you can get what you
           are looking for at the $ you are offering.
           \_ Is $20/hr for students not having to commute not considered
              decent? I'm making less than $12/hr on campus. Also, most
              students who have taken 61B probably have the requirements
              for that job. Java, HTML, knowledge of network protocols...
              that's all stuff that people should know by the end of their
              freshman year and they can pick up the other details as they
                ^^^^^^^^^\_ BWAHAHAHAHAHAH -- an ex-TA
                            \_ Most dumbasses in industry know less than
                               us elite Cal students right after 61B.
              go along. Fine, the neural network stuff was a little too much
              to ask of most undergraduates, but other than that? Can you
              site other companies close to campus that are willing to pay
              part-time students that much?
              \_ for "experienced"?  how much did you know at the end of
                 your freshman year?  if you're willing to make a 15 hr/week
                 commitment i'm sure there are better opportunities out there.
                 \_ Can you name _one_ in Berkeley?
                        \_ BART isn't that far away.
                           \_ BART + waiting for the BART + time on BART +
                              walk from BART to work doesn't compare with
                              being in Berkeley.
                              \_ ah, but if you *work* for BART,
                              you make over 50k plus benifits, you
                              only  have to know how to press two keys,
                              and you dont even need 61a!
                                \_ Depends on the pay.  A jobless hungry
                                   student's time has zero value so hungry
                                   student is better off BARTing to a better
                                   paying job then walking to a shitty job
                                   nearby, assuming the BARTable job pays well
                                   enough to cover the BART fees plus some.
                                   \_ Sure, but a jobless, not hungry student
                                      who wants good work experience (so that
                                      he can make more later) and some extra
                                      cash on the side that is easy to earn
                                      would probably take the local job.
                                      \_ I disagree.  When I was in the
                                         situation of jobless but not hungry
                                         student I rode BART to a job.--oj
                                        \_ For a shitty job? Why would you
                                           BART to a shitty job when you can
                                           walk to a better one?
1999/10/17-19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:16723 Activity:moderate
10/16   RedHat's compatibility pages list some sort of problem with
        AMD K6-2 300mhz.  Has anyone gotten a replacement chip like
        they suggest?  How much hassle/money required?
        \_ Never buy AMD and don't believe the BS that they are faster than
           Intel...  Read you 61C textbook and the anecdote about the
           philosophy that faster was always better,
           even if it wasn't always right.
           \_ It looks as if the Patterson and Hennessy book is, overall,
              very critical of Intel and says nothing about AMD vs. Intels.
              \_ I was referring to a quote, I think by Von Neumann, and how
                 Cray's floating point was fast, but partially incorrect.
                 \_ I don't think Patterson was too fond of Von Neumann
                    either.  According to Patterson, Von Neumann ripped
                    off the idea of a stored program computer from two
                    other researchers at Yale and claimed the term "Von
                    Neumann machine" for himself.  Von Neumann was a
                    mathematician, not an engineer.
                 \_ CDC was founded in 1957, and the CDC 6600 was around
                    1964.  Von Neumann died in 1957.
           \_ Uh huh.. Intel has a rep for doing it right?  Anyway, we're not
              talking advanced science apps to predict the future of mankind
              (will that asteroid hit?).  It's a cheap-ass RH box.  As long as
              it performs basic function.  Don't read a 61C book.  Read the
              release notes.  Not everything in life is an academic issue that
              needs to be perfect, follow the IEEE, ISO9000 and 61C standards
              of correctness.  As to the original question, the hassle involed
              is buying a new CPU and possibly MB and installing same.  Prices
              vary by the minute.  Hassle is static.
                \_ They don't replace it for (almost) free?  That's what
                   the Redhat page implies
                        \_ That was a long time ago.  I doubt AMD is still
                           honoring that offer.
1999/10/1 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16639 Activity:nil 73%like:16627
9/29    I thinh0zerg,  We should take
        tests with partners and work on the projects alone.  This way, people
        who h0zer to carry people who
        shit their know don't.  and Tests worthless useless are, and easily
        replaceable by an O(1) lookup with the right literature.
        \_ good tests aren't.  That is why every test I took in CS at Cal
           was open book.  -aspo
        \_ But it's easy to verify you are "working alone" on a test,
           and almost impossible to do so on a project.
           Some professors let you do a project by yourself, but you
           dont gain anything extra by doing that.
        \_ I really like the Berkeley policy of letting the competent people
           know early that a world full of freeloaders is eagerly awaiting their
           shoulders.  Thus the competent acquire the correct attitude by the
           time they graduate. -- ilyas
        \_ Only hard worh0zert
           it.  Deleting this changes the context of what follows.  Don't be
           a dummyhead, dummyhead]
           \_ BTW, hotshot,
              what's your EECS/CS GPA? Unless YOU are in HKN, you've got
              arrogance for nothing.
                \_ I already graduated.  I don't have a GPA.  I also never
                   joined any key club resume stuffing crap either in HS or
                   college.  HKN is not the be-all, end-all of educational
                   godhood.  I did quite well in everything except 60b.  For
                   some reason, VAX assembly language didn't sit well.  Can't
                   imagine why.  I suppose a B- in vax assembly makes me
                   worthless and stupid in your book.  Or was it my total
                   apathy for resume stuffing?  BTW, no one has ever asked me
                   which clubs I belonged to and when interviewing, no one has
                   ever volunteered such crap to me.  If the best a candidate
                   can come up with is membership in key club, they have
                   nothing to offer.  Excuse me while I go brush up on my
                   vax assembly for an interview tomorrow.
                   \_ It wasn't VAX, it was MIPS assembly.. that could be
                      the problem.
                      \_ depends on when you took the class.
                      \_ It was VAX 11/780.  Thanks for playing.  Maybe it's
                         possible I took the course years before you were in
                         school and it changed between when we each took it?
                         Oh no, that's right, all these courses are exactly
                         the same forever.  How silly of me to forget that
                         computer science never changes.
                         \_ Right.  There were no CS classes before MIPS
                            & Java.  Those who talk about CS 50 & 60 series
                            classes are just making typos.
                            \_ hey some 60b students did MIPS.  I think.
                               Oh wait, I never tooh0zerd. -aspo
                            \_ Yeah, sorry for the typo.  I was on drugs or
                               something when I said VAX 11/780.  I'm now quite
                               certain it was cs61b doing OOPS Java coding on
                               MIPS.  I'll run my motd entries through a spell
                               and reality checker in the future.  There was
                               never such a thing as a VAX and cory.eecs,
                               po.eecs, and the other student-use VAXen are
                               just a bad-think myth.  I'm delusional.  I think
                               the freshie has been run into the ground enough
                               on this point.  I'll stop now.
1999/9/29-10/2 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16627 Activity:very high 73%like:16639
9/29    I think they have this test taking thing all wrong,  We should take
        tests with partners and work on the projects alone.  This way, people
        who know their stuff, can prove it without having to carry people who
        don't know their shit.  Tests are useless and worthless, and easily
        replaceable by an O(1) lookup with the right literature.
        \_ good tests aren't.  That is why every test I took in CS at Cal
           was open book.  -aspo
        \_ But it's easy to verify you are "working alone" on a test,
           and almost impossible to do so on a project.
           Some professors let you do a project by yourself, but you
           dont gain anything extra by doing that.
        \_ I really like the Berkeley policy of letting the competent people
           know early that a world full of freeloaders is eagerly awaiting their
        \_ So, you're someone that tests poorly but works like a dog so does
           well on projects?  Whatever.  Everyone has a selfish reason for
           changing the system to suit themself.
           shoulders.  Thus the competent acquire the correct attitude by the
           time they graduate. -- ilyas
        \_ Only hard working dummyheads prefer projects over tests.  [I meant
        \_ Only hard working people prefer projects over tests.  [I meant
           it.  Deleting this changes the context of what follows.  Don't be
           a dummyhead, dummyhead]
           \_ BTW, hotshot,
              what's your EECS/CS GPA? Unless YOU are in HKN, you've got
              arrogance for nothing.
                \_ I already graduated.  I don't have a GPA.  I also never
                   joined any key club resume stuffing crap either in HS or
                   college.  HKN is not the be-all, end-all of educational
                   godhood.  I did quite well in everything except 60b.  For
                   some reason, VAX assembly language didn't sit well.  Can't
                   imagine why.  I suppose a B- in vax assembly makes me
                   worthless and stupid in your book.  Or was it my total
                   apathy for resume stuffing?  BTW, no one has ever asked me
                   which clubs I belonged to and when interviewing, no one has
                   ever volunteered such crap to me.  If the best a candidate
                   can come up with is membership in key club, they have
                   nothing to offer.  Excuse me while I go brush up on my
                   vax assembly for an interview tomorrow.
                   \_ It wasn't VAX, it was MIPS assembly.. that could be
                      the problem.
                      \_ depends on when you took the class.
                      \_ It was VAX 11/780.  Thanks for playing.  Maybe it's
                         possible I took the course years before you were in
                         school and it changed between when we each took it?
                         Oh no, that's right, all these courses are exactly
                         the same forever.  How silly of me to forget that
                        \_ Your rejoinders are too weak to justify their length
                         computer science never changes.
                         \_ Right.  There were no CS classes before MIPS
                            & Java.  Those who talk about CS 50 & 60 series
                            classes are just making typos.
                            \_ Yeah, sorry for the typo.  I was on drugs or
                               something when I said VAX 11/780.  I'm now quite
                               certain it was cs61b doing OOPS Java coding on
                               MIPS.  I'll run my motd entries through a spell
                               and reality checker in the future.  There was
                               never such a thing as a VAX and cory.eecs,
                               po.eecs, and the other student-use VAXen are
                               just a bad-think myth.  I'm delusional.  I think
                               the freshie has been run into the ground enough
                               on this point.  I'll stop now.
                               \_ the past is worthless.  Esp in C.S.
                                  \_ The scary thing is that there are a
                                     lot of people in CS who actually
                                     believe this.
                                     \_ because it's true.
                                        \_ Silly boy.  You think my career is
                                        based on anything at all I learned in
                                        a lower division Cal CS class?  You
                                        really honestly think yours will be?
                                        Get a DeVry 'degree' if that's the kind
                                        of job you're looking for.  As far as
                                        the past vs. whatever goes in *any*
                                        field, if you don't learn from the
                                        past, you're bound to repeat those
                                        mistakes.  Give a hoot, don't polute
                                        your mind with stupid ideas like the
                                        past isn't important to the future.
                                        \_ ok, if you didn't base your career
                                           from what you learned, then the
                                           VAX obsolete stuff you were taught
                                           is obsolete.  And if you keep
                                           worshipping the past, you restrict
                                           your imagination for the future.
                                           I mean, how many pdp11/s do you
                                           maintain?  Do you believe the WWW
                                           would have happened if the people
                                           who like text only interfaces would
                                           have had their say? How about 3d
                                           hardware accelleration?  How about
                                           dolby soundcards?
   The real sadness here is watching the incredible _/
   arrogance of geekboys like yourself -- who like
   to flatter themselves into thinking they're
   being so "bold" and "creative" and "imaginative",
   when all they're doing is making a living off of extending *other*
   people's ideas, or re-inventing things that were *done better* 20
   years ago (and then patting themselves on the back, because they
   understand the past so little that they think they were the first
   one to come up with the idea).  The whole world of user interfaces
   is *just now* beginning to catch up and embrace the concepts that
   Doug Englebart demonstrated in *1968*.  Yes, I believe the WWW
   would have happened if people who like text-only interfaces had
   their say, because that's how it *did* happen (ever use the CERN
   line-mode browser)?  3D graphics cards and Dolby soundcards are
   just incremental improvements on existing concepts, not bold new
   inventions.  Instead of just mooching off the work that others
   have done in the past, go away and invent some *totally new*
   paradigm that blows everyone else away . . . and *then* come back
   and boast about your "imagination for the future".
1999/9/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16542 Activity:nil
9.17    Ahh, beautiful, all these 61c people using winnt dual p 200s to run
        pc spim much faster than any unix box in soda.  Glorious. It is
        the beginning of a new age brothers and sisters!
        \_ shaddup paolo. #1 xspim fan.
1999/9/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16535 Activity:high
9/16    You should take 61b with Hilfiger. He'll show you what it's about...
        \_ thats bullshit!  cs61b was the worst course i ever took because
        of that asshole.  someday you'll realize that there are more improtant
        things when you get a real job and stop riding bike and using linux.
        (fill in the origina post to match the reply.)
          \_ I took 60c with Hilfinger.  I got the same grade as 60a and 60b
             with much less demanding instructors and learned a lot more.
             What's wrong with that?
1999/9/16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16531 Activity:nil
        \_ thats bullshit!  cs61b was the worst course i ever took because
        of that asshole.  someday you'll realize that there are more improtant
        things when you get a real job and stop riding bike and using linux.
        (fill in the origina post to match the reply.)
1999/9/5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16468 Activity:low
nt9.6     For all those who hate visual interfaces:
        "Up to 10% extra credit for a wizzy Tcl/Tk (or Java!) user interface
        front end, showinging elevators going up and down and people getting
        on and off, that could be used by next semester?s CS162 class."
        this is straight from the project spec.  Guess UI isn't that
        unimportant after all.
        \_ I'm more concerned with whether they stop using that lame ass
           Nachos for that class and use something like FreeBSD (perhaps
           running on vmware or something)
1999/9/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:16467 Activity:high
9.5     61c section now taught in NT lab using vc++.  It is the beginning
        of a new era.
        \_ Classes using nt: 61c, cs152, cs160, cs169, even ee122 let us
           write a webserver in visual c++ if we wanted to.  It's nothing
           new. - paolo
                \_ you forgot 184 in this post-sgi era.
        \_ At least Culler is still using the 61c project Phil Nunez
                designed for nweaver.  (Is he going to make them overflow
                buffers and become uber-hackers as well?)
        \_ If I hurry, I can graduate before Visual Spim comes out.
           \_ At least for now 61A and 162 is safe from the forces ofevil.
              Harvey would never allow 61A to be taught on Windows and no
              professor in their right mind would ever ask their student
              to run Nachos or simulate an OS on Windows.  Soon, the
              concept of time sharing and high utilization will be gone
              from the CS dept.
              \_ Actually, Professor Joseph recently ported NACHOS to Windows.
                 There goes the neighborhood.
                \_ Why the heck are professors willing to go through all the
                   trouble to PORT things to Windows, and barely able to
                   lift a finger when it comes to the tiniest and most
                   bleedingly necessary maintenance programming tasks
                   under Unix? -brg, who only bitches because he usually
                                     ends up doing it for them
                   \_ Because they know they're teaching a bunch of morons
                      who use the NT workstations on the 3rd floor of Soda
                      to log into less powerful machines only to run
                      Nachos and inadvertently cause a denial of service
                      on the cpu servers.
                   \_ Because they have foo and you don't,
                      They're big and you're small --
                      And there's nothing you can do about it! :P
                \_ I wonder if they feel unix is obsolete?
                \_ I don't see how they could make that decision informedly.
                \_ Because they get tons and tons of free hardware if they
                   run NT systems and nothing or near nothing if they run
                   unix.  Get Sun to start donating free hardware like Intel
                   is and you'll get unix based classes.  About $5 or $6
                   million in Sun hardware would go a long way.  In recent
                   years Intel has donated more than this.  Sun is cheap so
                   you get NT.  Unix is dead in .edu.
                        \_ Sun donates millions to the research side/
        \_ uh, Intel donated $6 million to Cal and the machines are
                   nearly all running Linux.  -tom
                   \_ You mean Solaris?
                        \_ Solaris x86 is out, linux is in. -tom
                           \_ call me a foolio, but seeing Half-Life TFC
                              on linux servers is all the evidence I need
                   \_ Wrong.  The few toys handed out to students didn't cost
                      $6m.  The bulk of them are NT machines run by UC staff.
                      Once again, you show you have no idea what you're talking
                      about and insist on demonstrating your ignorance in
                      public.  Do yourself a favor and stop now before the next
                      generation of students figure it out, too.
                \_ uh, I am referring to the Millennium Project, and I
                   personally run 30 of the machines, all running
                   Linux.  The campus-wide cluster, for which a gigabit
                   backbone is being built, will be all Linux.  The CS
                   NOW is moving from Solaris to Linux.
                   Now exactly who is demonstrating their ignorance?  Oh I
                   forgot, you were too fucking wimpy to sign your name.  -tom
                   \_ Hi tom, aren't those for the grads to use?  I believe
                      the discussion was about _undergrad_ machines.
                        \_ I was responding to the idiot who said "Unix
                           is dead in .edu" and "because they get tons of
                           money if they run windows and nothing if they
                           run Unix."  Why would Intel give a shit what OS
                           you're running?  -tom
                           \_ Whoa!!! 30 whole machines!!! Wow!  That's like
                              most of the $6m!!!  tom, dude, you are the man!
                              With 30 whole machines you sure proved that idiot
                              wrong!  Imagine that?  Tom has 30 machines and
                              runs Linux on them, therefore the bulk of the
                              other machines *must* also be running Linux.
                        \_ I have been at the planning meetings, have you,
                           idiot?  How many are YOU running?  -tom
                [here's my reply that was erased twice] :
                          \_ I was at planning meetings while you were still
                             in school.  Didn't see you there.  Anyway, I
                             find your 30 machine cluster very cute.  I'm
                             proud of you, boy.  You've done good.
1999/8/28-10/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16407 Activity:nil
08/25 Interested in Lab Assisting for CS 61C?  Contrary to previous posting,
      this is an unpaid position.  You do, however, get 1 unit for every
      three hours of work per week.  If you're interested, send mail to dans
1999/8/10-11 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16285 Activity:very high
8/10    Does bh still give his "don't go into cs for the money, do
        it because you love it" speech on the first day of 61A? He
        did a decade ago when most believed that the most a
        programmer could make was $40K. -elizp
        \_ Even if you hate Brian Harvey, this is still sound advice.  Why
           would you spend four years of your life to learn something you
           don't have the slightest bit of interest in?  --jeff
           \_ interest comes and goes.  salary and stock options stay.
                \_ And they stay with you to heaven or hell.
         \_ to pay the bills.  i met an old HS class mate doing web
            admin type stuff in NYC, she hates her job but says it's
            worth it to live in NYC
            \_ Nothing's worth living in NYC
            \_ I don't consider web admin to be computer science (at least
               not in Berkeley or any half-respectful university)
        \_ I didn't major even though it's been a hobby since jhs because
           I thought CS was full of immature freaks.  Little did I know
           immature freaks had a noticeable presence in my other major;
           affected CS undergrads were just more obvious about it.
        \_ Keeping in mind of course that as an Prof, BH doesn't really
           work all that hard and makes roughly $100k for it.  He gets to
           earn decent money while still living what's essentially a student
           life style.  WTF does a clown like him know about life anyway?
           Exactly at which point in his life did he experience anything
           outside academia?
           \_ What the hell is your problem with Brian Harvey?  Perhaps
              you should find something else to poke fun of besides
              baldness, obesity, and an interest in education.  We're not
              in grade school anymore but I guess you still think that
              girls have cooties.  BH was a decent teacher and I've had
              profs that are just pure assholes that deserve the shit
              treatment more than BH..
              \_ Uh oh.. The Straw Man Argument.  I *never* picked on him for
                 his physical appearance.  BH was a mediocre teacher.  You
                 want a good teacher?  Go take a class with Hilfinger.  He'll
                 actually teach you something although he won't hang out with
                 you for potsticker-kiss-ass-hour.   He might also teach you
                 about logical reasoning and how to debate and possibly even
                 how to correctly parse and comprehend an English sentence.
                 Quote where I attacked his appearance.
           \_ "doesn't really work all that hard" and "student life style"?
              Snce when was this a possible combo in Berkeley CS?
                \_ Since always.  A prof or student (yes, even at the mighty
                   Cal) does not work as hard as someone with a real job. Don't
                   fool yourself into thinking you're working hard now.  You'll
                   find out what real hard work is after graduation.  There's
                   a good reason why folks in industry look down on academics
                   and those working in academia.  Bare minimum they've all
                   once been students and know academic 'work' is like being
                   on vacation compared to doing real work.
1999/8/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16255 Activity:high
8/4     All you EE's out there.  I'm a CS major but I'm also pretty interested
        in the hardware side of things including 150 & 152.  I want a good
        class in solid state electronics and I found 104, 105, 130, and 141
        in the course catalog.  Which EE course in solid state electronics
        would any of you recommend?
        \_ Did you read Hilfinger's report on CS vs EE? CS kicked EE's butt,
           and that includes CS150 and CS152. Go for it.        -CS King
           \_ Uh, then why did I get A+'s in all my CS courses and worse in
              the EEs?
                \_ Duh.  Because you're better at CS.  Genius.
           \_ No, I meant which non-CS course do you recommend?
        \_ Both 130 and 141 require 105, which next semester is being taught
           by Spanos.  Although I have heard Spanos is lame, he apparently
           almost always teaches it so there is no way around that. 105 is
           the follow up to the new EECS 40 for microfab and digital, 130
           is even more in depth and 141 is digital design, your choice is
           between 105 and 104.  105 = digital (mostly), 104 = not digital
           (mostly analog).  The choice beyond that info, I leave to you.
           105 -> Red Pill
           104 -> Blue Pill
           Take the Red Pill and you see how far this digital shit goes
           Take the Blue Pill and you can go back to believing that
           analog tech is not totally phased out and a waste of good units
           you could be spending taking decal classes on DJing or Oski -asa
           \_ This is too useful a reply for the motd.  It should get purged.
           \_ Personally, I thought 104 and 117ab were the most intellectually
              rewarding classes I took at Cal.
1999/8/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16250 Activity:moderate
8/4     Taking 61A next semester, see that Harvey's book is a recommended one
        (SICP being the textbook, of course).  Seeing that Harvey's teaching
        the class, is the second book a really required but we say recommended
        to mess with your head, or a just interesting side reading?  --katster
        \_ Don't worry, many people I know don't even read the required text.
        \_ Harvey's book is pre-chewed Scheme.  Not that that's bad.
        \_ When I took the course, I never found it necessary to open the other
           book; no one else I know did, either. You needn't bother buying
           it. -brg
        \_ Also, if you want a pre-chewed Scheme text, I'm of the opinion that
           Grillmeyer's text (the CS 3 book) is preferable. -dans

now     Java pointer crap deleted for being pointless, so to speak.
1999/6/25 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16019 Activity:high
6/25    Grade distributions for  LSCS and EECS undergrads:
        \_ Looks like L&S CS kick EECS big time.
          \_ I would believe the report had it been done by a  CS and EECS
             professor. Since it is done by a CS professor, I do not trust
                \_ THAT IS NOT TRUE, EECS people take more classes and
                   are sexier than you soda-drinking high-school
                   drop out hackers!!! EECS REWLS, HKN REWLS, CS STUPID!
             \_ Name:     HILFINGER, Paul
                Title:    Assoc Prof
                Dept 1:   EECS/Cmptr Sci
          \_ EECS can be more rigorous, depending on the option. There are
             a lot more requirements. That said, I don't see a big
             difference between the two except in lower division CS
             courses. A larger percentage of EECS students got A's in
             upper division CS courses than L&S CS students did. --dim
                \_ There are more L&S CS with A's in upper EE courses
                   than EECS students.
                \_ A larger percentage of EECS students flunked in upper
                   division CS coures than L&S CS students did.
        \_ EECS people need to take more classes, so obviously they have
           less time to concentrate on all the technical classes.
                   the average EECS GPA.
                \_ What?  Did you fail your basic logic and analysis class?
                \_ We all take 120-130 units you dweeb.  Stop complaining.
                   I took CS 61ABC, EE42, EE 43, Math 1AB/54/55, Physics 7,
                   EE 122, EE 141, EECS 150, EECS 152, CS 162, CS 164 w/
                   Hillfinger, CS 170, CS 184 and yet my GPA is higher than
                   the average EECS GPA. And I'm sure there are other LSCS
                   majors who have more rigorous classes and a higher GPA
                   than I do.
                   \_ Funny.  I always gave my list of courses as "X, Y, Z,
                      A, B, C, 60c with Hilfinger, D, E, F".  :-)
                \_ excuses excuses. just admit it, CS rewls, EE sucks
1999/6/5-6 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15909 Activity:high
6/4     Our CS dept doesn't seem to have any research projects related to call
        processing (the kind that happen inside a Layer 3 switch or ATM
        switch, not the telephone kind).  Anybody know of research in this
        area?  Or more generally, of a site that aggregates research topics?
        Yahoo is sparse on this area.
        \_ That sort of research is more usually done by EECS people at UCB
           \_ perhaps "The Cory Hall" side of the eecs family is a better
              way to put it or EE division, since EECS encompasses all of
              EE and CS.  There is no CS department.  There is an EECS
        \_ Or by firms like Lucent. You might check their website. -brg
                \- it depends what you are looking for. i might have some
                pointers. sally floyd has some papers with lbl nrg. i suspect
                the new research group van@ee is involved with will be working
                \_ I can recognize that partha-post in 3 lines.
                        \_ bully for you?
                                \- what is your point? in this case, not
                                exactly hard to do. besides if people think
                                i have a strong signature, it's easy to fool
                                people when i need to. --psb, naturally
                                \_ I think he was trying to say he's an ass.
                on some of this at cisco. i dont know much about ACIRI but
                considering where their $ is coming from, they might also.
                certaingly SIGCOMM and such are places to look. this is the
                kind of academic stuff yahoo/altavista etc arent necessarily
                good for. i think there is an organization called the ATM forum
                or something like that. look for them too. --psb
1999/5/18 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15830 Activity:low
5/17    A few years ago the 61C web page had this really cool looking
        banner but unfortunately it has since disappeared.  Does anyone
        know if there's a copy of it lying somewhere?  I think it was done
        by Charles Ying but I'm not sure.
        \_ It was me, I have it somewhere, mail chucky.
1999/5/7 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15767 Activity:high
5/7     i need on info on cal football season ticket.  go bears!!!
        \_ You can buy one at the athletic ticket office on Fulton (the
           old UC extension building).  It costs about $150 for the
           general public, about $50 for students.  -tom
1999/3/20 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Reference/Tax] UID:15622 Activity:nil
3/19    how much you think REI buys the goretex pants for
        b4 sellingit to dumbasses like me for $150 + $12 tax? - tpc

   __  _.-"` `'-.
  /||\'._ __{}_(    MudCop says, "Cheating is bad for you! Just say NO!"
  ||||  #'--.__\
  |  L.(   ^_\^
  \ .-' |   _ |
  | |   )\___/
  |  \-'`:._]
  \__/;      '-.
  |   |o     __ \
  |   |o     )( |
  |   |o     \/ \
1999/2/16-17 [Transportation/Car, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15427 Activity:high
2/16    Why did my post get deleted? Here it goes again:
        I just got a new car and I'd like to install a fog light bcuz it is
        cool man. Okay, now, the dealer wants to install it for $300 bucks.
        However, if I install it myself, it will only be $150. Here's my Q:
        Exactly how well do fog lights work (30% farther? 50% farther??), and
        how hard is it to install it yourself? I'm pretty good with wiring, but
        I've never taken apart car parts, panels, etc. THANKS MAN!!!
        \_ Um, I believe people already did answer it (and then misc. stuff)
           Don't think you'll get any more than that.
        \_ because it was flame-bait the first time, and still is.  asshole.
        \_ Why does this post remind me of kchang?
           \_ Because KCHANG IS BACK MAN. First person to figure out how
              he's posting to the motd gets to squish him (again).
1998/12/19 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15125 Activity:very high
5/15    What do people think of 164 with Rowe this semester?
        \_ Rowe didn't teach 164 this semester, Aiken did. Rowe taught it
           in the Spring, and he's a pretty good professor, mostly because
           he isn't too hard and is a nice guy (but he was a bit unorganized).
        \_ I had an easy A with Rowe.  -- cm1ee
        \_ Better than 162 with Smith!
           \_ You will soon receive the doctor's bill for treatment of the
              aneurism i suffered upon your mentioning of that class.
              (And I had just started to figure out how to tie my shoes
              again.  Bastard.)
           \_ Anything is better than 162 with Smith.  Unfortately with
                        just him & Harvey teaching 162 now, everyone's
                           \_ mmmmmmmm, getting screwed....sounds like fun
        \_ If you want an A with Aiken... hehehe... forget it. Either you have
           to sell your soul to the Evil Red Dragon or sleep with Aiken's wife
           \_ Aiken's wife looks like a man
                   \_ Whatever happened to... uh, I think it was Anderson?
                     \_ David Anderson?  He's CTO at a startup in Berkeley
                        \_ Which startup?  I took his 162 and he's good.  Last
                           I heard he went to San Rafel to write Mac audio
                        \_ Tom Anderson.  He was the best instructor for
                           the course.  He left a few years back for
                   \_ Harvey doesn't really teach, per se.  He preaches his
                      religion to unsuspecting freshmen and chows on the
                      potstickers and is pretty much just worthless.
                      \_ is he still sleeping with Randy?
                          \_ Randy Katz?  The dept. chair?  I don't think so.
                      \_ INFIDEL!!!  HERETIC!!1!  I fondly remember taking
                         162 from bh.  Especially those nights when we'd all
                         gather around the big, silent bulk of the PDP-10 in
                         the machine room, heads bowed to its greatness . . .
                         then bh would pour the vodka, and we'd munch on
                         potstickers and talk for _hours_ about the imminent
                         coming of the Glorious People's GNU-LISP Revolution
                         that would sweep like a cleansing wave!  Some nights
                         we'd watch Animanics and listen to the Beatles until
                         dawn.  Then we'd shatter our vodka glasses against
                         the wall and weave our way home, staggering up the
                         middle of Hearst singing Russian peasant drinking
                         songs . . . I didn't learn much about operating
                         systems, but damn, I learned about _life_.
                         \_ the person he was supposed to be sleeping with
                            was a Brand(i?y?) I think.  and I seem to remember
                            from various sources that although everyone
                            thought otherwise there was no actual sex invloved.
                      \_ Fˣ  HʮTǡ1   fl rmmbr tkg
                         162 frm bh.  sll ths ghts wh w' ll
                         gthr r th bg slt blk f th -1 
                         th mh rm hs bw t ts grtss . . .
                         th bh wl r th vk  w' mh 
                         tstkrs  tlk fr _hrs_ bt th mmt
                         mg f th Glrs l's G-S vlt
                         tht wl sw lk  lsg wv  Sm ghts
                         w' wth ms  lst t th tls tl
                         w.  Th w' shttr r vk glsss gst
                         th wll  wv r w hm stggrg  th
                         sgs . . .  't lr mh bt rtg
                         sstms bt m  lr bt _lf_.
                         \_ And stop unbrking it!
                         \_ Ah, for the days when the Revolution seemed so
                            vibrant, so _alive_!  Now I just sit at home,
                            talking to my bust of Stallman and wondering
                            where we all went wrong.
1998/11/30 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:15039 Activity:high
11/29   Antz > Bug's Life.
        \_ yer just tryin' ta hurt mah feelinz -=Aubie
        Bug's Life >>>>> Antz
        dood: listen: Bug's Life >>>>>>> Antz  >> EECS life
        dood: listen: Bug's Life >>>>>>> EECS life >> Antz
1998/11/13-16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/Security] UID:14950 Activity:nil
11/12   Wow, further proof that our dorms aren't as bad as we
        \_ Unit 2 Cunningham has had this since '92.
        \_ got a username/passwd for us to use?
           \_ cypherpunk/cypherpunk
           \_ just create one for yourself
           \_ It's free.  Try this:
        \_ What's that sound?  Is that the sound of freedom being chipped
           away, bit by bit?  What's that?  It's for my safety?  Gee, thanks.
        \_ Anyone know the detection range for our prox cards?  Is it the
           ~3 cm you have to get to the readers to get them to unlock the
           door, or could they be read from a longer distance in theory?
1998/11/9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14935 Activity:nil
11/09   Hey if any of yous is bored, why not head on over to:
        It's a real short 3 min. online quiz that i need participants for
        for my psych2 class.  oh yeah-i guess one lucky winner gets a new
        unopened hed(pe) cd (i think it's funk/punk/rap) colubiahouse
        accidently sent me.  Thanks!
        \_ psych 2 eh..that was probably the 2nd easiest class i've ever
           taken at berkeley next to 61c.  interesting class though, and
           a good breath class to take. highly recommended.  sorry, but
           i hate rap.
        \_ I think this is a scam to get your email address.
        \_ you don't have to put yer email--it's just if you want to win
           crappy cd. i swear on my abysmal GPA i won't pimp your email
1998/11/5-8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14915 Activity:kinda low
11/4    is there some kind of good/bad prof list on csua.  at any rate, what
        do people think of sequin for graphics?
        \_ Smith BAD.  Harvey good for 61a, okay for 61c, not good for 162.
            Aiken good for 164.  Forsythe, Sequin, Barsky good for 184.
                Canny strange (he's teaching 184 in VRML instead of OpenGL
                like everyone else).
        \_ HKN has professor evaluations for EECS/CS classes online.
            \_ If these are enough for you then you obviously don't
               care enough. It's best to ask your friends whether
               Prof. So-and-so is a good teacher for class N, and
               if not, ask *why* not ... because the very things
               made that professor bad for your friends may make
               them an excellent choice for you...
               \_ with the exception of prof Smith which everyone unanimously
1998/10/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14840 Activity:very high
10/27   Is Netscape 4.5 worth upgrading to?
        \_ I've been running 4.5pr2 on my win95 box, and on OS 8.5
           for the last few weeks. IMAP is good, calendaring is kinda
           strange, but whatever. Crashes less often than 4.07...but
           not much less.
        \_ Make sure you have a lot of RAM. This sucker is over 12megs
           in size.
           \_ ns has been 12 megs for quite a while (ever since ver 4
              came out)
           \_ So you're saying it's worth downloading?
                \_ It crashes a bit less.
        \_ In my NT version I've got this problem once a while that when I
           go to a page, some or all of the elements in the page aren't
           displayed.  I then have to juggle it a bit (click on random places
           on the page, click on menus, move the window, "Back" and "Forward",
           etc.) to get all the elements to show up.  Does anyone else have the
           same problem?
           \_ I don't think that's a netscape problem.  NT programs just
              behave eratically.  Take cs 150 and you'll know.
              \_ But NS4.0 on the same NT machine didn't have the same problem.
              \_ What does a crappy OS have to do with CS150?  You mean CS162?
                 \_ it doesn't but we use NT which isn't the most reliable
                    thing in the world.  162 OS's suck because they are
                    written by sleep deprived students and are emulated.
                  \_ If you took 150 and 162 you'd know what he was talking
                        \_ Do you mean 152?  I took 150 and 162 and still
                           don't know what he's talking about.  Is there
                           something taught in 150 that I didn't know about?
                           \_ clueless: they use NT in the 150 labs.  Hence,
                              this relates to the original statement: "NT
                              programs behave eratically" because the 150
                              NT machines crash all the time.  Would you
                              like to buy another clue?
        \_ Subjectively, it's more stable than the 4.0x versions I've used
           I'm using FreeBSD, but geordan said he sees the same thing in
           the Solaris version --dbushong
1998/10/15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14777 Activity:high
        \ Life god uses M$ - thus he must be a false prophet
        \_ Unable to connect to host ye twink!
        Sorry, but EECS is hardcore, and CS isn't. It has much more presteige,
        and the recruiters know it - that we EECSs have been abused by
        Hilfinger (willingly) and deserve a few pennies more per year to make
                \_ Dumbshit, I wasn't even CS and I willingly took Hilfinger's
                   classes.  Oh woe is you, the EECS major, boo hoo.  Grow up.
        up for it. Go to hell EECS, and go to hell Berkeley CS proffs.
        who think we should have no lives.
        Go to hell all those of you who drop courses after getting a B on
        the first midterm to f-ck up the curve for the rest of us.
        \_ Gee, if I had been in EECS/C the only difference would have been
           taking EE40 instead of 42.  Oh, and I wouldn't have gotten to
           take as many elective, I expect.  That's why I switched OUT of CoE
           Who says LSCS lusers can't take Hilfy?   --pld, 2x Hilfy vet
                \_ Did you take Physics 7ABC? Math 53, 54, 55
                   or did you take 45 sci/design units?
                   \_ Actually, I took Physics H7AB, 7C, 105, 110A, as
                      wells as Math 50AB, 55, 110, Stat 101.  And that's in
                      L&S.  Oh, and don't forget CS60ABC, 150, 162, 164,
                      170, 174, 184, 188, 294 and of course the lowly EECS
                      42.  On the side I took Spanish 25, and Vis Studies
                      181 (photography).  Could I have done that in EECS?
                   \_ you want an L&S pecking contest?
                        Try: 162. 164. 170. 182. 184. 284. 288. 294,
                        slavic, cogsci1, cogsci101, pacs, swing-dancing!
                                -eecs major1
        \_ If EECS is so fucking hardcore, why are CS majors required to
           take CS150 when EECS weenies can skip the fucker?
                \_ the only way an EECS major can skip 150 is to take many
                   extra courses for the sci/design units...
                        \_ Compared to "no way for a CS major to skip 150".
                           I would've happily taken 10 non-150 courses
                           \_ hell no, cs170 is the bitch ass class you want
                              to skip. 150 is probably the most bad ass
                              class i've taken at berkeley.
                                \_ 170 was merely annoying.
        \_ Look, obviously you have a small penis.
                \_ Or no penis but desirious of one.
        \_ That's why I was an English Major.
           All I did in college was fuck and play video games.
           Now I work in the CS field, best of both worlds!
                \-I laugh at all of you. --psb
        \_ L&S rocked. I got a 3 on the Chem AP in high school.
           Didn't have to take science classes in Berkeley.
           Got to take Folklore and Children's Lit. --vchang
        \_ Pure fantasy.  No such pics exist.
1998/10/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14774 Activity:insanely high
10/14   Sorry, but EECS is hardcore, and CS isn't. It has much more presteige,
        and the recruiters know it - that we EECSs have been abused by
        Hilfinger (willingly) and deserve a few pennies more per year to make
                \_ Dumbshit, I wasn't even CS and I willingly took Hilfinger's
                   classes.  Oh woe is you, the EECS major, boo hoo.  Grow up.
        up for it. Go to hell EECS, and go to hell Berkeley CS proffs.
        who think we should have no lives.
        Go to hell all those of you who drop courses after getting a B on
        the first midterm to f-ck up the curve for the rest of us.
        \_ Gee, if I had been in EECS/C the only difference would have been
           taking EE40 instead of 42.  Oh, and I wouldn't have gotten to
           take as many elective, I expect.  That's why I switched OUT of CoE
           Who says LSCS lusers can't take Hilfy?   --pld, 2x Hilfy vet
                \_ Did you take Physics 7ABC? Math 53, 54, 55
                   or did you take 45 sci/design units?
                        \_ EECS finally realized the sci & design units
                      wells as Math 50AB, 55, 110, 121.  And that's in L&S.
                      Oh, and don't forget CS60ABC, 162, 164, 170, 174,
                      188, 184 and of course the lowly EECS42.  On the side
                      I took Spanish 25, and Vis Studies 181 (photo).
                      Could I have done that in EECS?
                           system was so fucked up they threw it out.
                   \_ Actually, I took Physics H7AB, 7C, 105, 110A, as
                      wells as Math 50AB, 55, 110, Stat 101.  And that's in
                      L&S.  Oh, and don't forget CS60ABC, 150, 162, 164,
                      170, 174, 184, 188, 294 and of course the lowly EECS
                      42.  On the side I took Spanish 25, and Vis Studies
                      181 (photography).  Could I have done that in EECS?
                   \_ you want an L&S pecking contest?
                        Try: 162. 164. 170. 182. 184. 284. 288. 294,
                        slavic, cogsci1, cogsci101, pacs, swing-dancing!
                        -eecs major1
                   \_ okay, I gotta get in on this one. Try: Physics H7ABC,
                      Math 50AB, 55, 110, Stat 185, Chem 1AB, 8AB, 120A,
                      Bio 1A, MCB 100, 122, 130L, 160, 165, H196, CompLit 1AB,
                      185, English 104, 112, CS 60ABC, 150, 162, 164, 170, 172,
                      188, 29x (some compbio seminar), German 1. MCBIII/CS
                      double. And 5-years (3 NCAA rings) playing waterpolo.
                      No shit. --spegg
                        \_ yow! I think you won. Your penis must be HUGE!
                           Can you spare an inch or two?
        \_ If EECS is so fucking hardcore, why are CS majors required to
           take CS150 when EECS weenies can skip the fucker?
                \_ the only way an EECS major can skip 150 is to take many
                   extra courses for the sci/design units...
                        \_ Compared to "no way for a CS major to skip 150".
                           I would've happily taken 10 non-150 courses
                           \_ hell no, cs170 is the bitch ass class you want
                              to skip. 150 is probably the most bad ass
                              class i've taken at berkeley.
                                \_ 170 was merely annoying.
        \_ Look, obviously you have a small penis.
                \_ Or no penis but desirious of one.
        \_ That's why I was an English Major.
           All I did in college was fuck and play video games.
           Now I work in the CS field, best of both worlds!
                \-I laugh at all of you. --psb
                \_ I was in L&S, fucked my way through school (video games?
                   bah!) and now I _manage_ all the little geeky boys who
                   think "CS is k00l!1".  I don't know anything about CS and
                   don't want to, thanks.
        \_ L&S rocked. I got a 3 on the Chem AP in high school.
           Didn't have to take science classes in Berkeley.
           Got to take Folklore and Children's Lit. --vchang
        \_ If you want to do software, employers don't give a rats
           ass if you were EECS/C or L&S CS. All that matters is that
           you know your shit. Having a CS (either one) degree from Cal
           gives you a big leg up on the market. If you actually know
           your shit, then you'll really do well. -atom
1998/10/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14772 Activity:moderate
10/13   Why are there CS and Chemistry programs under L&S while there are
        already EECS option C under the College of Engineering and BS Chem
        under the College of Chemistry?
        \_ Mainly, EECS is a way for chair-bound CS majors to take a bunch of
                physics courses and lower their self-esteem even further.
    \_ you obviously didn't go to the L&S CS panel, twink.
        \_ L&S = more flexibility in electives, less required courses
           Engineering/Chemistry = prestige, more paperwork, B.S.
             instead of B.A., better chance of scholarships, grants, if you're
             hot-sh*t some advisors will do good things for you
        \_ Liberal Arts edcuation versus Engineering education.
           CoE is more structured (corollary to L&S => more flexibility)
           L&S CS started out as an extension of the math department and
           EECS started out as an extension of EE.  Similarly, there are
           two physics programs, one in L&S and Engineering Physics in CoE.
           For the Chem programs, the CoE/BS program has more noteriety
           but for other programs, the reputation is based on the professors
           in the field and quality of people coming out of the classrooms
           and not on the college sponsoring a specific program.  --jon
                \_ The above are the excuses.  The truth is history, politics,
                and inertia.
1998/10/1 [Health/Dental, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14707 Activity:high
9/28    MCB majors suck, EECS rewls, end of long and pointless motd.
        \_ motd forwarded - thanks much!
           ... maybe you will save some poor souls. -jctwu
        \_ So your doctor/dentist is an EECS major, I assume.
                \_ I don't have medical problems.  Thanks for caring though.
                I self-medicate when necessary.
1998/9/29-10/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14702 Activity:kinda low
9/29    I'm timing an algorithm for cs170. The only library functions I
        could find in c/c++ are time_t which is not precise enough.  Is
        there something that measures milleseconds? -thnx
        \_ If this is that benchmarking thing for the strassen project, it's
           totally bogus, there's no easy way to benchmark the way they
           suggest.  I just wrote something like what they said they wanted
           and ran with it..  ~dbushong/pub/bench.c  --dbushong
        \_ In any case, _don't_ try running this on soda.. there are far
           too many processes running for you to get any sort of accurate
           timed benchmark.
        \_ Try playing on EECS instructional machines.  -- Grumpy
        \_ try playing with gettimeofday(). -ERic
        \_ getrusage() does microseconds and measures only time actually
           spent on your process, not other processes
           \_ gettimeofday() will get you absolute system time.  getrusage()
              gives you the amount of time the system kernel allocated to
              your process, which on a heavily used multiuser system, could
              be very different. --ERic
              \_ How about /usr/bin/time, or the shell built-in "time"
                 command?  -- yuen
                        \_ Those report both.
1998/9/16 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14609 Activity:kinda low
9/16    what the hell is up with IS&T?  the ucb warhol # is the only one
        working and all eecs #'s have been down for the last half year.
        They should replace those guys with competent people for once.
        \_ I can't speak for IS&T but the people who run the EECS dialups
           ie Rob McNicholas and CSG are pretty damned competent.  Perhaps
           you could mail dialups@EECS.Berkeley.EDU.  --jon
        \_ I dialin to the EECS modems every day and rarely have problems
                -alanc-  (of course, I use the staff/research modems)
           \_ The EECS 28.8 modems have been minorly broken for like 6months
              or so, but it's easy to get around if you have 2 phone lines.
              I haven't complained because this way I never get a busy
              signal =)  --dbushong
1998/9/15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer] UID:14598 Activity:nil
        I asked before - How can I run afterstep on the EECS Instructional
        computers, *without* installing the package etc...? I tried every
        suggestion in the previous answers, but they didn't work on the
        EECS computers, nor on Soda. Any ideas? Thanks, - noah
1998/9/6-8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14554 Activity:kinda low
9/6     My 170 TA sucks.  Does anyone have any good recommendations for
        170 TAs?
        \_ Jiang Ji-yang.  But only if you speak Cantonese.

           \_ You mean Mandarin?  This name doesn't sound like a Cantonese
                \_ No, he said he only speaks Cantonese.  At least that's what
                   my Chinese friend said.  Anyway, maybe my friend's Chinese
                   isn't as good as he thinks it is and the guy was really
                   saying he doesn't speak Cantonese?  I dunno.  Learn Chinese
                   before taking any Cal Math or EE/CS courses.
                \_ actually, one can be Cantonese, yet spell one's name in the
                   Mandarin style.
                   \_ Korean is helpful, too. --dim
                   \_ I thought all the TA's were Indian.
                        \_ Hey! There ain't nothin wrong with Indian TAs.
                           I was one.
                           \_  Most of the Indian math TA's I've had did not
                               quite have mastery over English.
                               \_ Some of the American TA's I've had did not
                                  quite have mastery over English either
                               \_ Sometimes TA's with English as their
                                  second language suck and sometimes they
                                  rule. Luck of the draw.
1998/8/23-25 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14497 Activity:nil
8/22    Tired of nastyass html, netscape happy infocal replacement?  Try
        ~dbushong/bin/infocal.  e.g. "infocal cs61b" gives you schedule info,
        "infocal -d cs170" gives you course description  --dbushong
        \_ not that infocal via html has to be nasty, but
           makes gopher look functional.
1998/8/13 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14443 Activity:nil
8/13    Hey, what the hell's up with cs 150 not letting us in?  There's
        plenty of room.
        \_ Prereq's are being even more strictly enforced.  No non-majors
                allowed under any circumstances.
1998/8/11-13 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14441 Activity:high
8/10    Did anyone take CS152 in Spring '93 or around that time?  In that
        class we used a simulation software on Sparcs.  Does anyone remember
        what that software is called?  Thanks.  -- yuen
        \_ I haven't taken 152 but is it verilog?  View Logic?
           \_ ViewLogic and PowerView come to mind. 150/152
                \_ probably ViewLogic.  It's part of the Zuken-Redac family of
1998/8/1-3 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14420 Activity:high
7/31    Say I wanted to create a special account with special privledges
        other accounts but I don't to make it user root or have a uid less
        than 100.  How would I do that?  For example, the accounts cs61a,
        cs61a-ta, cs61a-tb,... can su into other cs61a accounts and read
        there files even though they don't have permissions set by the
        individual users.
        \_ I heard that the kernels on the instructional machines needed
           to be hacked for this to work.  -- yuen
                \_ As if root@cory has source to the HP-SUX, Digital Spewnix,
                   and Slowaris kernels to hack it into...
                        \_ At least they finally killed Ultrix
           \_  wouldn 't be too hard to hack that into su
               with sudo you would 't even need to hack it
        \_ tasu
           \_ so there's no way to create some kind of hiearchial user
                \_ You can write a version of su that does.  Since su runs
                   setuid root, it can implement any security policy you
                   want it to.  I think sudo already has that functionality.
        \_ run afs.  duh.
1998/7/14 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14330 Activity:moderate
7/13    Wow, 2 crashes in one day.  2 more crashes and you practically
        win 95.
        -Gates knows all; sees all; does all
        \_  % uname
        \_ Linux is better.
           \_ Linux is a nightmare.
              \_ Sure linux is a nightmare.  But when something goes
                 nightmarish it's because the user did something wrong
                 and you have a chance to fix it. When Winblows goes
                 nightmarish it's because some idiot at Mircrosoft never
                 took 61c and 162 and all you can do is pray.
                 \_ Winblows is the best!!!  Over 80% Americans use it.
                 \_ And how is that any different than *BSD?
                 \_ Hmmm...for any average user?  I don't think my mom can
                    fix the OS if it goes nightmarish.
1998/6/23-25 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:14235 Activity:high
6/23    What is the best (easiest) way to satisfy the American Cultures
        requirement together with the Humanities and Social Studies
        requirement for the College of Engineering?  -ax
        \_ College of Engineering has the easiest Humanities/Social Science/
           American Culture requirements a Cal student can have.  How easy
           do you want it to be?
        \_ Anthro 163AC with Dundes was really really good.  He tries to
           scare you off at the beginning, but if you stick with it, he
           grades really easy and you get to research anything from yermom
           jokes to stories told by welders.
        \_ An EECS-C Jr. transfer needs to know.  She'd probably e-mail
           you if you had a good answer and signed your post. -ax
                \_ she pretty?
                   \_ and is she nice, or is she a mean b?
        \_ History 7A or 7B satisfies American Cultures and List A, and
           \_ Don't take weeder history courses.  For that matter, don't
              try to satisfy *any* requirement with a lower division
              course if you can help it.
           they're great basic American History courses -- esp. if taught
           by Litwack.  Be prepared for 2-hour sections, and a "white
           people are evil" version of history similar to what you will
           find in _A People's History of the United States_.  -agee
        \_ Lose your virginity now (American Culture), test your latest
           medicine invention on your dog (Humanity), and have sex with
           yermon (social science).
           \_ This was funny?  Clever?  Were you just really tired when
              you wrote that?
        \_ Thanks for all the answers everyone!!  I think she has
           enough to go on. -ax
1998/6/3 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14169 Activity:high
6/3     Why the hell is eecs instructional always down or running very slow.
        They should hire new (and competent) sysadmins.
        \_ Perhaps you would care to sign your name so that those who either
           work with EECS IESG, or associate with those who do, can respond
           to your questions and suggestions.  A mail root@cory would be a
           better way to get this information.  In any case, EECS Inst. has
           been putting a lot of work into replacing or upgrading a number of
           its primary servers and infrastructure and finally can do work
           in the 4 weeks between the end of the spring semester and the
           beginning of the first Summer Session CS class.  Perhaps if
           someone who works for EECS Inst. reads the Soda MOTD,
           someone who works for EECS Inst. reads the Soda MOTD, that
           person could post something here a little more detailed, not
           that reading the Soda MOTD is the official place to find
           complaints about EECS Inst systems and to post information
           about EECS Inst systems nor is it part of EECS Inst's job.  --Jon
1998/5/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14096 Activity:high
5/15    What do people think of 164 with Rowe this semester?
        \_ Lance is King!
        \_ Better than 162 with Smith!
                \_ Anything is better than 162 with Smith.  Unfortately with
                        just him & Harvey teaching 162 now, everyone's
                   \_ Harvey doesn't really teach, per se.  He preaches his
                      religion to unsuspecting freshmen and chows on the
                      potstickers and is pretty much just worthless.
                      \_ is he still sleeping with Randy?
                          \_ Randy Katz?  The dept. chair?  I don't think so.
                      \_ INFIDEL!!!  HERETIC!!1!  I fondly remember taking
                         162 from bh.  Especially those nights when we'd all
                         gather around the big, silent bulk of the PDP-10 in
                         the machine room, heads bowed to its greatness . . .
                         then bh would pour the vodka, and we'd munch on
                         potstickers and talk for _hours_ about the imminent
                         coming of the Glorious People's GNU-LISP Revolution
                         that would sweep like a cleansing wave!  Some nights
                         we'd watch Animanics and listen to the Beatles until
                         dawn.  Then we'd shatter our vodka glasses against
                         the wall and weave our way home, staggering up the
                         middle of Hearst singing Russian peasant drinking
                         songs . . . I didn't learn much about operating
                         systems, but damn, I learned about _life_.
                         \_ This has _got_ to be one of the funniest things
                            ever posted to the motd.  Is there a motd Hall
                            of Fame?
                                \_ yes, /usr/bin/local/motd/Hall_of_Fame
                                \_ yes, /dev/null
                                \_ This _is_ great.  It makes checking the motd
                                   every few hours meaningful.  Maybe someone
                                   _should_ start recording a motd best-of.
                                   Then I could get a life, and check the best-
                                   list instead.
                             \_ Was this clever?  I didn't notice.
        \_ Aiken is better.
           \_ good at teaching, big ego, horrible personality, asshole.
              \_ How so?  I have to say that except for the "good at teaching"
                 part, I found none of the above to be true.  One of those
                 "your mileage may vary" things, I guess.  -- kahogan
1998/5/11-12 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:14077 Activity:nil
5/8     A friend of mine is looking for someone to do some
        only-slightly-challenging Perl CGI work? there's $150 or so in
        it for them, negociable. Mail me if interested: -=aubie
1998/3/18 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:13825 Activity:high
3/17    If anyone could tar up and put in /tmp hilfie's cs61b java classes
        that reside on the instructional machines, I would be most
        obliged.  I have no account on those machines.  -sky
        \_ /tmp/ucb-classes.tar.gz
           \_ Thank you very kindly, sir -sky
1998/3/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:13812 Activity:very high
3/17    Hi, I'm getting kind of desperate now. Here is the repost:
        Does anyone know where to obtain specification on PC serial port
        interface, for input AND output? More specifically, which TTL/CMOS
        serial decoder do I need to buy to do I/O for a typical 152 or EErobot
        project? THANKS!
        \_ Pins 2,3 for send/receive.  What more do you need?
           \_ yeah, knowing the port #'s and irq's isn't very
                \_ IRQ 3 and 4, 2e8, 3e8, 2f8,3f8.  Anything else?
        \_ Try some sort of electronics hobbyist store.  Or ask your TA.
        \_ I remember finding this data on the web when doing my 150
           project.  Just hunt around for a little while.  It is out there.
        \_ When I took 150, the chip we used was made by Maxim. Why not
           check and look for datasheet on their
           interface chips?
          \_ Good advice, especially since the serial port uses some 12
             volt signaling, and you probably only want a 5/0/-5 volt
             power supply.  Maxim chips rock.  -Evil 150 head TA.
1997/3/19-20 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:32091 Activity:high
3/19    81 people failed the CS162 midterm. 58 got Cs & Ds. (class of 205)
        Please say a prayer for the dearly departed. I think we have a new
        twist to the "Harvey gives As" theory.
        \_ Stop complaining. I had Harvey for 162 one and half years ago,
           he used exactly the same grading policy. You shouldn't worry
           that much about getting Cs and Ds since his exam have so few
           points, which one point means losing many percentages. But it
           won't hurt your grade that much since he grade by points, not
           \_ How did you do in English 1a?
        \_ Come to office hours.  -dpetrou
        \_ 205 people in upper division CS class?  What the fuck is going on
         \_ Even worse - 205 people in a class with only 12 computers
            for people to work on their projects.  Anyone still think
            this "hack on a live kernel" is a better idea than nachos?
          \_ (1) The number of lab machines was not known
          before the FreeBSD decision was made.
           \_ That was completely irresponsible then.
              Even worse was letting everyone add after
              bh found out how few machines there were.
             (2) It has not been a major problem anyway.
           \_ Bullshit.
           \_ If it's not a problem, why do you need more?
             (3) Half of the Solaris machines are being
          converted to FreeBSD.  The class could have
          had all converted, but only chose to have half.
          \_ Dream on! -root@cory
          \_ Dream on!  We've got 50 other classes to
             worry about, most of which aren't demanding
             to take stuff away from other users, unlike
             some greedy, self-centered bastards.
           \_ how many are in 164 this semester?  -karlcz
         \_ Yes, I AM insane! -geordan
                   \_ if you insist...
          \_ I thought you were asking how many 162 students
             were taking 164 as well... -geordan
                      fall '96 164 finished with over 150 students, and even
                      that was far too many. I think class size is the most
                      serious problem CS students face at UCB. -karlcz
        \_ So maybe there actually was some benefit to my taking Smith for
           162, then . . . although that was hard to believe at the time.
         \_ Any cs162 instructor is better than Smith. Why would you
            to take Smith who teaches old tech stuff.  He spent more
            time on hard disks than the more important materials such
             as networking, distributed system, etc.
          \_ You get a decent grade if you know your stuff.
             With this Harvey midterm, even if you know your
             stuff you fail. I studied hard. The wording was
             poor and most of the stuff was tricky - either
             you get it or you dont. That is not a measure
             of performance in class.
        \_ What? The wording is poor? Harvey is probably one of the most
           eloquent speaker I have known in the whole CS department!
           \_ Past performance does not guarantee
              future results.
           \_ Why do you care so much about grades?
              Nowaday, employers care more about what
              you know than what your GPA is.
              \_ Well, maybe you should get out there
          and make sure that all those employers
                 know what they're supposed to care
          about, then.  Some of them are obviously
                 out of date.  (And some people might be
          thinking grad school, too . . . )
           \_ I think you're exaggerating.  The synch.
              question was bad but we've been compensated
              with lenient grading and possibly extra
              points on top of that.
            \_ Lenient grading? PHUCK no! Some of my
        answers were marked off for no reason.
        Besides, extra points does not make
        up for a bad exam. Instead of a D I
        get a C. Big difference. I cant recall
        a worse midterm I have taken in terms
        of testing class performance. It is
        fucking sad to see all my good grades
        and then a fucking low grade for 162 -
        why? because I studied & prepared well
        for it but they decided not to measure
        performance in the class but to
        measure how well you can guess the
          \_ Yeah.  Nobody writing a modern OS ever has to worry
             about dealing with _hard disks_ anymore!  162 profs
             should drop them from the course and cover SUP3R
             instead.  Or maybe Java.
          \_ This thread wouldn't be here if PhilOS was
             the OS of choice for 162.
         \_ If all you care about are grades.
          \_ Dimwit, you're in school.  There is nothing else
             to care about.  Oh yeah, "I got an 'F' but I sure
             do know my stuff, yee haw!"  Dumb move, kid.
        \_ It's shit like this grading nonsense that makes me glad I'm in econ.
           So far, for all my midterms, papers, and finals, getting a score
           of mean is an automatic B with the way our curve is set up.   :P
         \_This little tibit will probably explain why you will
           have no job after you graduate. That, and the next
           fucker who states that "grades are not the only thing"
           will not get half, but will get the full fucking plunge
           with the mighty twelve incher. Grades are all that
           matters; no one gives a shit what you know or do not
           know. As long as you can perform when the shit hits the
           fan, you will get the big bucks.
           \_ Well, uh, I did International Relations through ISF--
              it doesn't get more luzerish than that--and it took me
              slightly less than a month to find an awesome job
              in Europe.  It's stupid, ignorant, moron freaks like
              you (did I mention inbred and narrow-minded?) who
              waste their college time doing something they don't
              enjoy, stressing, earning no more than the rest of us,
              just so you can be snooty about having to work more
          and having a heart attack when you're 30.  Maybe it's
              true that most engineering/science-type majors are
              intelligent, but you sure try that stereotype.  Twit.
              Oh yeah, grades are not the only thing.  Plunge away.
1997/2/26 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:32083 Activity:nil
2/25    Pointers to anonymous telnet proxies, anyone? Thanks!
        \_ soda.csua - they can only tell you're one of 150 people since
         we don't run identd
           \_ Thanks for the thought, but the Berkeley connection
              might give me away. Any other ideas?
         \_ Don't do illegal shit over the net?
                   \_ Nothing illegal planned; just want to
                      visit someplace and not be recognized...
        \those North Korean/Chinese sites .. or its it gay porn ?
1996/7/24 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31873 Activity:nil
7/22    Hey! stop deleting the beef!  Soda SkyDive on August 11! About
        a half dozen sodans are in already. Cost should be $143-$150 dollars
        for tandem jump from 11-13,500 ft.  Mail jor if interested.
        \_ I'll go if it's less than $110.
        \_ $100 is my max.
        \_ Jesus christ, how much profit are they making?
          \_How much does insurance cost when your buisness is throwing
            people out of a perfectly good airplane?
1996/6/5 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31844 Activity:nil
6/4     How is the prefesoor who is going to teach cs150
        next semester? I heard he is the hardest professor
        for 150. Is this true?
        \_ The guy is a great lecturer, and if you enjoy spending 140 hrs/wk
           on your projects, and hate it when a professor replies to the e-mail
           questions that you send, then he's perfect for you.
1996/5/7 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31834 Activity:nil
5/6     How much work is CS152?  Compared to, for example,
        CS184?  CS150?  etc...       -- mikeym
1994/4/15 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31563 Activity:nil
4/14    How is CS184?  Is it insane to take it with CS150?  Would I be
        better off taking CS162 instead of 184?
        \_ You'd be insane to take a class like CS150 at the same time as
           any programming super-intensive course like 184 or 162!
           All three of these classes require 40 hour work weeks+
           150 by itself requires you to give up your life.  Any of the
           others will require the lives of your loved ones as well.
           \_ Well put.
              \_ Sad, but true.
         \_ CS 162 with smith REALLY SUCKS...wait on that one 'till spring,
           'cuz they have changed the schedule, and Anderson is teaching it.
        \_ Well put. If I were you, I'd take ONLY CS 150 and some other shitty
           electives so that you're up to 13 units. I spent even more than 40
           hours on CS 150 hardware project. And yeah..Smith SUX! Wait till
           next year...Anderson might teach that again.
           \_ How likely is it that !Smith will be teaching 164?
           \_ So what exactally is wrong with smith? I just heard that
              he's medoicre and boring, but so what?
           \_ I suggest you take a class with him then.  He simply cannot
              *teach*, ie convey information from him to you, possibly
              because much of it is missing on his end to begin with.
              Many of his cs262 classes start with, "Has anyone here had
              any experience with <OS of the day>?  All I know is what
              I've read in this paper.  Hold on.  Let me scan it to
              refresh my memory."  Then he runs his finger down the page
              for a few minutes while you're sitting in class.  Geez,
              he doesn't even prepare for his classes.  That's what he's
              *paid* to do.  They should fire him.
              \_ Wrong!  Professors are paid to do research.  Teaching
          is secondary.
         \_ Who are you?  Can you not know that teaching duty is part
            of every professor's contractual obligations?  They are
            paid to do BOTH teaching and research.  Period.
            \_ Guess that somebody oughta let them know that too then.
              \_ good idea!  who do we voice our concerns to?
          We really need to make undergraduate education a
          better at UCB.
          \_ How about seidl and dpassage (?) who are
             going to the faculty retreat this weekend
             to present students' concerns
         \_ Teaching is never secondary.
                \_ Well, the truth is that faculty candidates are evaluated
                   on their research activity alone, with no thought as to
                   teaching ability. The department figures teaching is
                   something someone can learn.
              \_ The point is that teaching *is* one of a professor's
          responsibilities---one that Smith fails to live up
          to.  (Speaking of research, he hasn't had an
          original paper published in years.  But that's a
          different complaint.)
1993/6/17 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31368 Activity:nil
6/15  Help sessions being organized for summer cs60a.  All interestid
        parites, mail moi.  I will start selling out immediately.
             -- seidl
        \_ finger: moi: no such user.
           What's the deal. -- sfd
1993/5/12 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31316 Activity:nil 83%like:31321
5/10     gas-2.0 compiled and installed!  Theoretically, this will let us
        fix a lot of other programs on soda!  -ERic

Wed May 12 05:17:52 PDT 1993
ronaldy  17171   0.0  0.2  152   84 pV S          0:43 sz -r -w 8192 dcview21.zi\
p jpeg4\ warez
        \_ What's the problem? these are patches or graphics
           stuff, no warez.
        \_ and what do you care?  GET A LIFE and mind your own business.
        \_ The soda.cop should go stick his head in a big sweaty hole somewhere.
1993/5/12-13 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:31311 Activity:high
5/11    Is SPIM available?
        \_ Clue->Acquire()
        \_ #t
        \_ "spim?  I don't need no steenkin spim." (
        \_ Compile it yourself?  I did it when I took 60B. - gc
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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