11/1 Where the Bush tax cuts went:
http://tinyurl.com/ybdo32e
It sure would be nice to have that $2.3T back, wouldn't it?
\_ If you pray hard enough, much of that wealth will be trickling down
to everyone soon! Keep praying!
\_ Since the money stayed with individuals like you and me we
already "have it back". Or do you mean that you wish the
government had kept $2.3T in wealth that belonged to the
citizens?
\_ anyone with HS education understands the point of the
graph. The rich have the biggest dot, and hence they
got way more than everyone else. The point of the
graph is to conjure up knee-jerk actions from the poor
and socialists alike. Did you graduate from Berkeley?
\_ What the rich "got" was their own money! Good point
in your next-to-last sentence.
\_ What did they do with it? It seems pretty clear that the people
who got the tax break just blew it on a big housing bubble.
\_ personal responsibility. self reliance. yadda yadda
yadda. Read Ayn Rand.
\_ to understand better how idiots think about the world?
\_ No, what really happened is that Bush borrowed $2.3T from the
Chinese and indebted future generations (like you and me) to
pay it back and then transferred that money to his wealthy
supporters. If the government had been running a surplus during
that time, you might be right, but we did not, we ran huge
deficits. I sure wish we hadn't borrowed all that money to
pay for the Bush tax cuts, don't you?
\_ Put another way:
Bush screwed the Chinese, because they aren't ever going
to see that money again. I can't pay it back and I'm
declaring BK, baby. Let's watch the Chinese try to collect.
The wealthiest Americans stole $2.3T from the Chinese.
They are so gullible. If I owe the Chinese $100K I have
a big problem. If I owe the Chinese $2.3T they have a big
problem.
BTW, these "future generations" who will pay the bill
back are the same "rich people" the money was "given" to
to begin with. "You and me" aren't going to pay it back,
because we don't pay that much in taxes anyway. Anytime
you can borrow cheaply and earn a higher return on the
money you borrowed you should do so. Consider this a
low-interest loan from the Chinese to wealthy Americans
who then invested the money. In that context it makes a
lot more sense.
\_ Who has gotten a higher return on their investment
lately? I don't think it was anyone investing in the
US real estate or equity markets. Though the dollar
weakness must make US Bondholders nervous as well.
We will all be paying it back, with higher taxes and
less services.
\_ You don't think anyone investing in the real estate
markets made money?! Don't let the recent crash
obscure how much money was made. What are those
T-bills paying lately? Also, I hate to break it to
you but we won't all be paying it back. Plenty of
people don't pay any (or hardly any) tax at all.
\_ Reductions in services are a form of payment.
\_ Depends on if I use the services or not.
\_ 1) The people who don't pay any tax at
all tend to use lots of
services (for example: buses,
public schools, public health
clinics, etc.) that self-satisfied
over-priviledged geeks don't use.
2) Even if you as a self-satisfied,
overpriviledged geek don't use those
services, their reduction is a cost
to the society in which you take part.
A good public transportation system
reduces traffic on the roads; a good
public school system reduces crime and
increases the quality of the labor
pool, a good public health system
reduces the incidence of communicable
disease, etc. -tom
\_ Completely depends on which services
are cut. Not every service provides
some noble service to society.
\_ OK, well, considering that
education and health services
represent over 80% of the
state operational budget, where
are the cuts going to come from?
They're going to come from
services the state's poor need. -tom
\_ We're talking about the federal
government borrowing from the
Chinese. There's a big part of
the budget that could be cut
which is defense.
\_ Defense is the one government
service that the rich enjoy
more than the poor. -tom
\_ That's not necessarily
true, but if it is then
you just proved my point
about how "we" may not
pay back the money that
was borrowed and "the
rich" will.
\_ It is an interesting way to look at it. Let's see
who ends up getting their taxes raised to pay it
back.
\_ You must pay a lot less in taxes than me. "We" will
certainly be paying it back.
\_ I am not in the top 1% ($400K+), but if you are
then congrats and sorry to tell you that, yes, you
will be paying it back. I'm sure you don't
mind given all the money you made as a result
of the tax cuts, though.
\_ Not quite top 1%, but top 5% for sure. I am
still thinking about what I think of the govt
borrowing money on my behalf. It is true that
I did all right investing with it. I wouldn't
mind seeing my taxes go up, especilaly if it
went to something worthwhile, like the UC.
\_ what'd be nice is a bit next to it showing the tax burdens
and incomes as well for comparison. We already know they pay a
larger share of the taxes as well.
\_ Overall tax burden is pretty flat from the 4th to highest
decile:
http://tinyurl.com/yjxoknd
This includes all taxes, not just income tax, which is what
the cheerleaders for the wealthiest like to focus on.
\_ Does not include property tax, sales tax, or local taxes. |
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