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| 2009/8/14-9/1 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:53270 Activity:low |
8/14 How California's Lock-Em-Up Mentality actually makes crime worse:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111843426
\_ Sounds nice, but the stats say the crime rate is better since
we started locking them up.
\_ You should look up "correlation and causation."
\_ Just because they are not necessarily correlated doesn't
mean they aren't.
\_ I know you are but what am I?
\_ The Economist would beg to differ with you:
http://tinyurl.com/m9wa5l
\_ This article doesn't mention the crime rate at all. It
mentions recidivism. Even with the same yahoos getting
out of jail and immediately committing more crimes, the
crime rate has fallen. Imagine how good it would be if we
simply executed those troublemakers. Now, I don't think
that is morally acceptable and don't condone it, but I
say that to point out that the prison programs are broken
but that has nothing to do with sentencing. We can
restore funding to prison programs and cut the costs of
housing prisoners (per prisoner) *both* with the current
tough-on-crime stance still in effect. However, you
shouldn't need a PhD in statistics to realize that
releasing a lot of gang-affiliated criminals in jail for
lesser sentences like assault and dope dealing is not
going to be *GOOD* for the crime rate.
\_ These guys have a good summary of the research on the topic,
but the summary is that states with higher incarceration
rates have actually seen less of a drop in crime than
those states with lower incarceration rates:
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/inc_iandc_complex.pdf
\_ Interesting article, but one might argue that the
states with less crime therefore needed fewer
incarcerations. In Figure 2, the authors point to
two time periods with increased incarcerations. In
one of them, the crime rate increased and in the
other it decreased. They call this "divergent". One
might also say that even though the rate of
incarceration increased perhaps it didn't increase
*enough* and that the results of the second time period
were partially a result of the higher incarcerations in
the first time period. I don't think anyone is
naive enough to suggest that other factors (like the
economy) don't influence crime, but even the
authors of this study don't go so far as to say
that incarcerations do not affect positively the crime
rate - claiming it accounts for only 25% of the
reduction. They take this figure from another paper
in the UK which did some econometric studies. I
started to read this and it looks like good
research, but I hate to restate the obvious:
releasing criminals from jail is not going to lower
the crime rate. Therefore, it could only increase
or stay the same. Given that the CA prison system
is inept at rehabbing prisoners, I am going to
guess those people will return to crime. The
solution is not to release people early or get soft
on crime. The solution is to lower prison costs and
put some of that savings into programs that might
actually rehabilitate criminals. If that happens
then maybe we can consider revising sentencing.
Until then, you will be releasing people into the
community that have no business being released.
\_ One could argue that the real problem was locking
them up in the first place, which has been shown to
turn petty drug dealers into hardened criminals. So
in the short term you might be right, but in the long
term, locking up fewer people (and the right people
of course) will likely lower the crime right.
of course) will likely lower the crime rate.
\_ I don't like to argue the past. However we got
here, we are here. I would argue that if you
lock up enough people (all of them) the crime rate
can be reduced to zero. Dealing and doing
drugs is not a victimless crime and we are
right to be hard on those criminals, but we
need better support programs for them because
it's a hard habit to break. If you want to
lock up fewer people then they need to commit
less crime, but I refuse to ignore crimes
that are committed. There are programs which
may help make people less inclined to turn to
a life of crime, but those are orthogonal to
what to do with the people who have already
chosen that path.
\_ I am sure the crime rate in prison is higher
than the crime rate outside of prison, so your
lock em up mentality is unlikely to work.
Smoking a doobie doesn't mean you have chosen
a "life of crime" by your standards all of our
last three presidents are career criminals.
Come to think of it...
\_ As long as pot is illegal then it's a crime
and a lot of crimes were likely committed to
bring that joint to you, some of them
not so innocuous.
\_ Speeding is illegal too, are you planning
on locking up all the auto drivers, too?
I am sure more people are killed over oil
than pot, does that make driving immoral?
\_ Speeding is illegal, but not a felony.
However, there are plenty of
situations where speeders can end
up in jail, too. Smoking pot is
not a victimless crime. If it's
made legal then that would solve
a lot of the related crime, but
it's illegal and, yes, there is a
lot more crime committed to grow,
smuggle, and sell you drugs than
there is to pump, refine, and
sell you gasoline from Texas.
\_ Smoking pot is not a felony either.
80% of our oil comes from overseas,
so you should look at what is
happening in Iraq, Venezuela or
Nigeria, instead of Texas. Most
CA pot is grown locally, in fact.
\_ Selling it is and having
more than an ounce of it
could be. Cultivation is
also a felony. The rest of
your straw man bores me.
How many people are killed
in the name of dihydrogen
monoxide? We compete for
all resources. However, I
guarantee you Chevron is not
out there committing rampant
crimes to obtain, manufacture,
and distribute its product.
\_ we should lock them up in labor camps
\_ At least we shouldn't provide better healthcare to them than to
citizens outside of jail. |
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| www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111843426 Enlarge Dan Poush/AP Johnny Cash performs for inmates at Folsom State Prison in January 1968. Johnny Cash performs for inmates at Folsom State Prison in January 1968 Dan Poush/AP Johnny Cash performs for inmates at Folsom State Prison in January 1968. A August 13, 2009 In January 1968, Johnny Cash set up his band on a makeshift stage in the cafeteria at Folsom State Prison in California. "Hello, I'm Johnny Cash," he said in his deep baritone to thunderous applause. Song after song, the inmates thumped their fists and cheered from the same steel benches now bolted to the floor. The morning that Cash played may have been the high-water mark for Folsom -- and for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. The men in the cafeteria lived alone in their own prison cells. Almost every one of them was in school or learning a professional trade. The cost of housing them barely registered on the state budget. And when these men walked out of Folsom free, the majority of them never returned to prison. Credit: Amy Walters and Laura Sullivan/NPR Folsom was built to hold 1,800 inmates. It's once-vaunted education and work programs have been cut to just a few classes, with waiting lists more than 1,000 inmates long. And like every other prison in the state, 75 percent of the inmates who are released from Folsom today will be back behind bars within three years. Its crumbling, overcrowded facilities are home to the highest recidivism rate in the country. And the state that was once was the national model in corrections has become the model every state is now trying to avoid. Anthony Gentile, spokesman for Folsom, stands in the prison's empty cafeteria, beneath chipping paint, rusting pipes and razor wire. Where a photographer stood 40 years ago and captured Cash's famous concert, an officer now stands in a metal cage. When they're confined in this environment, the problems tend to simmer and stay there. Anthony Gentile, spokesman for Folsom There are now 15 to 20 assaults a week here at Folsom. And while inmates used to mix with one another, Folsom today is entirely segregated by race -- in the cafeteria, on the yard and in the cell blocks. "When they're confined in this environment," Gentile says, "the problems tend to simmer and stay there. To figure out how California could have gotten to such a place, you have to start in Sacramento. Jeanne Woodford is one of four secretaries that the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation has had in the past five years. "Honestly, I was very hopeful when I went up there," Woodford said about Sacramento. "I thought it was all about the right policy and the right principle. Taxpayers spend as much money locking people up as they do on the state's entire education system. Experts agree that the problem started when Californians voted for a series of get-tough-on-crime laws in the 1980s. It jumped from 20,000 inmates, where it had held steady throughout the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. Jeanne Woodford was warden of San Quentin during the prison population boom. California wasn't the only state to toughen laws in the throes of the 1980s crack wars. Voters increased parole sanctions and gave prison time to nonviolent drug offenders. They eliminated indeterminate sentencing, removing any leeway to let inmates out early for good behavior. Offenders who had committed even a minor third felony -- like shoplifting -- got life sentences. Derrick Poole is enrolled in Folsom's mill and cabinetry program. Enlarge Amy Walters/NPR Derrick Poole is enrolled in Folsom's mill and cabinetry program. Due to the high prison population and budget problems, Poole is one of only 10 percent of Folsom inmates who can participate in the prison's vocational programs. Derrick Poole is enrolled in Folsom's mill and cabinetry program. Amy Walters/NPR Derrick Poole is enrolled in Folsom's mill and cabinetry program. Due to the high prison population and budget problems, Poole is one of only 10 percent of Folsom inmates who can participate in the prison's vocational programs. Voters at the time were inundated with television ads, pamphlets and press conferences from Gov. "Three strikes is the most important victory yet in the fight to take back our streets," Wilson told crowds. But behind these efforts to get voters to approve these laws was one major player: the correctional officers union. A Prison Guard Union With Political Muscle In three decades, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association has become one of the most powerful political forces in California. The union has contributed millions of dollars to support "three strikes" and other laws that lengthen sentences and increase parole sanctions. It donated $1 million to Wilson after he backed the three strikes law. Since the laws went into effect and the inmate population boomed, the union grew from 2,600 officers to 45,000 officers. Salaries jumped: In 1980, the average officer earned $15,000 a year; today, one in every 10 officers makes more than $100,000 a year. Lance Corcoran, spokesman for the union, says it does what is best for its members. "We have advocated successfully for our members," he said. But he disputes that the union has purposefully tried to increase the prison population. "The notion that we are some prison industrial complex, or that we are recruiting felons or trying to change laws, is a misnomer," he said. Money And Influence I think that prisons should be a place where an individual has the opportunity to change if they choose to and we move forward from there. It is run out of a group called Crime Victims United of California. Its director, Harriet Salarno, says the committee is independent from the union. But a review of the PAC's financial records shows the PAC has not received a donation from another group besides the union since 2004. Corcoran does not deny that the two are closely connected. "We support a number of victims' rights groups," he said. But Corcoran acknowledges that the union has benefited from the increase in the prison population after these laws passed. "We've had the opportunity to grow," Corcoran says, "and that has brought with it both success and criticism." Secret Dealings With The Governor Woodford says she stepped down as secretary of the corrections department when she found out that the union had been going on behind her back to negotiate directly with the governor's office. Former Secretary Roderick Hickman resigned for the same reason in February 2006. "The biggest problem that I had was the relationship that I had with the union," Hickman says. Hickman says the union was able to control the department's policy decisions, including undermining efforts to divert offenders from prison and reduce the prison population. is still in the same place I left it, with an over $8 billion budget. Today, 70 percent of that budget goes to pay salaries and benefits to the union and staff. Just 5 percent of the budget goes to education and vocational programs -- the kind of programs that study after study in the past 10 years has found will keep inmates from returning to prison. Shop Talk: A Chance To Cross Race Lines From the instant you walk through the metal doors of the mill and cabinetry workshop at Folsom, you get a different feeling from other parts of the prison. In the shop on a recent day, a group of black, white and Latino inmates are bent over a table, talking to each other, discussing measurements for a conference table. "When we're down here, we put all the politics to the side," says inmate Derrick Poole as he works on the table's legs. "It gives us a place to go where we can we can get out of the prison politics gang, where we don't get along, where we don't socialize outside our race. Poole is spending nine years at Folsom for drug possession with intent to sell. In his life, he has been released from prison at least six times that he can remember. "When I got out, you kind of lose your social skills," Poole said. Then you come in here and you're not learning, and now your mind is more hollow, more empty." Poole got very lucky this time, beating out hundreds of others to land a spot among just 27... |
| tinyurl.com/m9wa5l -> www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14222337 United States California's overcrowded prisons Gulags in the sun Aug 13th 2009 | LOS ANGELES From The Economist print edition The consequences of three decades of being "tough on crime" AP Cruel and unusual ALL night they battled. Hispanic inmates on one side, blacks on the other, they smashed glass to use the shards as knives and ripped off pipes for bludgeons, burning down part of the prison and injuring hundreds. The riot on August 8th-9th was not the first and won't be the last in California's dreadful prison system. It occurred in a prison in Chino, just east of Los Angeles, that houses nearly twice as many inmates as it was built for, about the same degree of overcrowding that plagues California's 33 prisons as a whole. It is also one of the prisons that are currently trying to implement a 2005 ruling by the Supreme Court that inmates must not be segregated by race. The overcrowding in California's prisons, by far the worst in the country with only Georgia and Alabama coming close, has been the subject of lawsuits for years. The latest riot came just days after three federal judges, calling conditions "appalling," ordered California to prepare, within 45 days, a plan to bring its prison population down to 137% of capacity in order to approach constitutional standards of decency. Jerry Brown, California's attorney-general as well as a former governor and likely candidate for governor, has vowed to fight the order. In the past three decades, California's penal system "has gone from one of the best to one of the worst in the world", says Joan Petersilia, an expert on prisons at Stanford Law School. In the 1960s and 1970s, California was a model for its success in rehabilitating criminals. But in 1976 California decided to switch from "indeterminate" to "determinate" sentencing. The first system, emphasising rehabilitation, gives a lot of discretion to parole boards, who can reward good behaviour and also help with overcrowding by reducing inmates' prison time. Determinate sentencing, on the other hand, reflects a philosophy of deterrence and means that prison time is relatively fixed, whether an inmate behaves well or badly. Since then, California has passed around a thousand laws mandating tougher sentencing. Many have gone through the legislature, where politicians of both parties compete to be "toughest on crime". Others have come directly from voters, who often bring a "crime-of-the-week mentality" to the ballot box, says Barry Krisberg, the president of the National Council on Crime and Delinquency, a think-tank in Oakland. California spends $49,000 a year on each prisoner, almost twice the national average. But it still has the country's worst rate of recidivism, with 70% of people who leave prison ending up back in it, compared with 40% in America as a whole. The new prisons built in the 1990s to help accommodate the prisoners serving these tougher sentences have also helped contribute to the state's fiscal crisis. For the time being, California's prisoners remain crammed together--with predictable results. |