Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 52888
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/27    

2009/4/22-28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:52888 Activity:nil
4/21    Hey Dr. jblack, turns out not only were the lying, they
        tortured people to make their case:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090422/pl_mcclatchy/3217245
        \_ And in other news, stress positions and waterboarding prevented
           another terrorist attack.  So much for the meme that torture doesn't
           work.
           \_ No, accoring to Dick Cheney, there is double top secret info
              that indicates that torture stopped another terrorist attack.
              He is the same guy who said there was proof that SH had WMD.
              \_ No, according to NYTimes, via Obama's national intelligence
                 director:
                 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html
                 \_ "was valuable in some instances" is not the same as
                    your claim that it prevented another terrorist attack.
        \_ slavery also works.  should we reinstate it?  Just don't cry when
           some American being accused being spy in Iran, ok?
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/27    

You may also be interested in these entries...
2013/4/18-5/18 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:54660 Activity:nil
4/18    "MSNBC Host Blames NRA for 'Slow' Boston Investigation: 'In the
        Business of Helping Bombers Get Away With Their Crimes'"
        http://www.csua.org/u/zwf
        \_ The NRA has a lot to answer for.
        \_ Oh, for fuck's sake.  We don't put taggants in gunpowder because it
           interferes with the proper functioning of a round of ammuntion.
	...
2013/2/18-3/26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:54608 Activity:nil
2/18    F U NRA:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/auazy6g (Sandy Hook Truthers)
        \_ http://preview.tinyurl.com/bqreg8d
           This shit makes me weep for America.
        \_ I didn't see any mention of the NRA on that page.  Did you mean "FU
           Crazy Conspiracy Theorists?"  Or do you have this really great
	...
2012/11/18-12/18 [Recreation/Celebrity, Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:54537 Activity:nil
11/16   Anonymous responds to be labeled a "terrorist" by Isreali media:
        http://t.co/0lIgC166
	...
2012/3/1-26 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:54322 Activity:nil
3/1     First Osama Bin Laden, next Andrew Breitbart, I wonder who
        will be the third one.
        \_ I suppose you think Whitney just fell asleep in the tub?
           \_ Wow, you think Obama had Whitney axed too? What did she
              have on him?
              \_ Obama? No, no, no: Bobby Brown! You didn't read what
	...
2011/11/2-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:54209 Activity:nil
11/2    "NYC arrest records: Many Occupy Wall Street protesters live in luxury"
        http://www.csua.org/u/uml (news.yahoo.com)
        'Many "Occupy Wall Street" protesters arrested in New York City
        "occupy" more luxurious homes than their "99 percent" rhetoric might
        suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found.'
        \_ "Many"? How many? This is a classic weasel word.
	...
2011/5/1-7/30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:54102 Activity:nil
5/1     Osama bin Ladin is dead.
        \_ So is the CSUA.
           \_ Nope, it's actually really active.
              \_ Are there finally girls in the csua?
              \_ Is there a projects page?
              \_ Funneling slaves -> stanford based corps != "active"
	...
2011/5/5-7/30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:54104 Activity:nil
5/4     So, Bin Laden, star of Fox News, dies at 51.  But really the
        question is, when are we declaring war on pakistan for
        1. harboring a known terrorist
        2. taking our money ($ billions) for "antiterror" operations?
        Clearly we got scammed here.
	...
2010/12/20-2011/2/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53980 Activity:nil
12/20   "Assange.s lawyer wants investigation of leaks (about Assange)"
        http://www.csua.org/u/s6i (news.yahoo.com)
        Speaking of eating one's own medicine ......
        \_ http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/27/wikileaks
           The War on Wikileaks and Why It Matters
	...
2010/9/13-30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:53958 Activity:nil
9/11    Never forget.
        \_ Osama Bin Laden, your name shall not be forgotten.
        \_ Forget what?
	...
2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
7/21    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cold_War_pilot_defections
        This week's food for thought, brought to you by People's
        Republic of Berkeley: Did you know that many US pilots defected to
        communist Cuba?  South Korea pilots defected to communist
        North Korea? Iran<->Iraq pilots defected to each other?
        W Germany pilots defected to E Germany? Taiwan/ROC pilots
	...
2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
	...
2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
        http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
           should never admit mistakes.
           \_ Most "tea party" conservatives still support the war. It is the
              weak-kneed moderates that have turned against America.
	...
2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
2/16    "Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq"
        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Duh.  the best thing that could ever happen to a country is
           the US declaring war on it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
           the US winning a war with it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
           can't believe we elected this retread.
           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/25/opinion/1248069087414/my-tortured-decision.html
        Where is the apology jblack?
	...
2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
           war machine.  Looking for "justifications" for it is like looking
           for sense in the necronomicon.  Just accept it and move on.
        \_ When we fight with Red China, what nation will we use as a proxy?
	...
2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
        Has it been declared that we didn't find WMD in iraq? (think so).
        So why did we go into iraq (what was the gain), and if nobody really
        knows, why is nobody looking for the reason?
        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
2009/10/1-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:53421 Activity:kinda low
10/1    Signs that Communist China is really opening up!
        http://www.csua.org/u/p6f (news.search.yahoo.com)
        \_ WOW that is TOTALLY AWESOME. I'd love to see a porn
           of this genre. Asian. Lesbians. Military. That
           is just awesome.
           \_ This unit has unusually good drill and ceremony discipline.
	...
Cache (5675 bytes)
news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090422/pl_mcclatchy/3217245
Australia 7 News By Jonathan S Landay, McClatchy Newspapers Jonathan S Landay, Mcclatchy Newspapers - Tue Apr 21, 10:00 pm ET WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior US intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist. Such information would've provided a foundation for one of former President George W Bush's main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. In fact, no evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam's regime. The use of abusive interrogation -- widely considered torture -- as part of Bush's quest for a rationale to invade Iraq came to light as the Senate issued a major report tracing the origin of the abuses and President Barack Obama opened the door to prosecuting former US officials for approving them. Former Vice President Dick Cheney and others who advocated the use of sleep deprivation, isolation and stress positions and waterboarding, which simulates drowning, insist that they were legal. A former senior US intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration. "There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity. "The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there." It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly -- Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 -- according to a newly released Justice Department document. "There was constant pressure on the intelligence agencies and the interrogators to do whatever it took to get that information out of the detainees, especially the few high-value ones we had, and when people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people to push harder," he continued. "Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people were told repeatedly, by CIA . and by others, that there wasn't any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam, and that no such ties were likely because the two were fundamentally enemies, not allies." Senior administration officials, however, "blew that off and kept insisting that we'd overlooked something, that the interrogators weren't pushing hard enough, that there had to be something more we could do to get that information," he said. A former US Army psychiatrist, Maj Charles Burney , told Army investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba , detention facility were under "pressure" to produce evidence of ties between al Qaida and Iraq . "While we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al Qaida and Iraq ," Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. "The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results." Excerpts from Burney's interview appeared in a full, declassified report on a two-year investigation into detainee abuse released on Tuesday by the Senate Armed Services Committee . Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin , D- Mich. "I think it's obvious that the administration was scrambling then to try to find a connection, a link (between al Qaida and Iraq )," Levin said in a conference call with reporters. Levin recalled Cheney's assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta , the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon . A senior Guantanamo Bay interrogator, David Becker , told the committee that only "a couple of nebulous links" between al Qaida and Iraq were uncovered during interrogations of unidentified detainees, the report said. Others in the interrogation operation "agreed there was pressure to produce intelligence, but did not recall pressure to identify links between Iraq and al Qaida ," the report said. The report, the executive summary of which was released in November, found that Rumsfeld, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice , and other former senior Bush administration officials were responsible for the abusive interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo and in Iraq and Afghanistan . Rumsfeld approved extreme interrogation techniques for Guantanamo in December 2002 . He withdrew his authorization the following month amid protests by senior military lawyers that some techniques could amount to torture, violating US and international laws. Military interrogator, however, continued employing some techniques in Afghanistan and later in Iraq . Bush and his top lieutenants charged that Saddam was secretly pursuing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban, and had to be overthrown because he might provide them to al Qaida for an attack on the US or its allies.
Cache (4032 bytes)
www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html
More Politics News "High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa'ida organization that was attacking this country," Adm. Dennis C Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday. Admiral Blair sent his memo on the same day the administration publicly released secret Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of interrogation methods that the Obama White House has deemed to be illegal torture. Admiral Blair's assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. "I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past," he wrote, "but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time, and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations within the orders they were given." A spokeswoman for Admiral Blair said the lines were cut in the normal editing process of shortening an internal memo into a media statement emphasizing his concern that the public understand the context of the decisions made in the past and the fact that they followed legal orders. "The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means," Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. "The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security." Admiral Blair's private memo was provided by a critic of Mr Obama's policy. His assessment could bolster Bush administration veterans who argue that the interrogations were an important tool in the battle against al Qaeda. Dick Cheney, in a separate interview with Fox, endorsed that conclusion and said he has asked the CIA to declassify memos detailing the gains from the harsh interrogations. Abu Zubaydah, a Qaeda operative who was waterboarded 83 times, did not produce information that foiled terror plots. The Bush administration has long argued that harsh questioning of Qaeda operatives like Zubaydah helped prevent a planned attack on Los Angeles and cited passages in the memos released last week to bolster that conclusion. The White House would not address the question of whether the tactics have been effective on Tuesday but fired back at Mr Cheney. "That policy disagreement is whether or not you can uphold the values in which this country was founded at the same time that you protect the citizens that live in that country." Mr Obama's team has cast doubt on the effectiveness of the harsh interrogations, but in a visit to the CIA this week, the president did not directly question that. Instead, he said, any disadvantage imposed by banning those tactics was worth it. "I'm sure that sometimes it seems as if that means we're operating with one hand tied behind our back or that those who would argue for a higher standard are nave," he said. But he added: "What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy." The assessment by Admiral Blair represents a shift for him since he took office. When he was nominated for the position and appeared before the Senate intelligence committee on Jan. But he declined to assess whether the interrogation program under Mr Bush had worked. "Do you believe the CIA's interrogation detention program has been effective?" Senator Christopher Bond, a Missouri Republican, asked him. "I'll have to look into that more closely before I can give you a good answer on that one," Admiral Blair answered.