Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 52541
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2009/2/9-17 [Uncategorized] UID:52541 Activity:nil
2/9     New NAS study claims that ethanol is worse for health and environment
        than regular gasoline.
        http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/new-study-tallies-corn-ethanol-costs
        \_ I'm sorry, are there still people who aren't directly benefitting from corn
           subsidies (yes, this include our president), who still claim to think any-
           thing else?  -phuqm
        \_ I'm sorry, are there still people who aren't directly benefitting
           from corn subsidies (yes, this include our president), who still
           claim to think anything else?  -phuqm
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greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/new-study-tallies-corn-ethanol-costs
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, looked at various types of fuels' climate and health costs -- defined as a combination of health costs from the emission of fine particulate matter, and climate costs from issues like mitigation, carbon capture and the damage from sea-level rise or crop loss. The findings identified corn ethanol (corn is the main feedstock for ethanol produced in the United States) as more "costly" than cellulosic ethanol or even regular gasoline, though the range of cost estimates was wide and dependent on a large number of variables. University of Nebraska study found that ethanol produced significantly lower direct emissions than gasoline. Jason Hill, a researcher with the University of Minnesota and one of the authors of the more recent study, said that the Nebraska study looked at fewer factors than did his study, and that the findings of the two were compatible. Link I don't think gasoline was held up to the same standard. Did they put a number of the health of those in the Middle East who are dying from wars to protect oil, for example? Was a number really put on the pollution caused by tar sands pits in Canada? Link Ethanol will never be a viable alternative so long as it depends on gasoline in its production. Which means corn based ethanol is a Loser, with a capital L And "Last month, a University of Nebraska study found that ethanol produced significantly lower direct emissions than gasoline." Thats the same type of logic that allowed such high rates of CO2 to be emitted in the first place, the problem that we are trying to solve (unsuccessfully) with ethanol! Link The "Greens" were so enthusiastic about corn-based ethanol, despite warnings that it was so much less efficient than petrol(especially when combined-as the Democratic Congress ordained). Alternative fuels, especially algae, holds a lot more promise, yet it is years away(ten or more)from being online(in fuel stations). First of all-THINK-it(any alternative fuel)must be able to run present day cars, trucks, busses and more(all kinds of petrol-runned engines). Distribution has to be changed drastically(oh wait an see-Exxon, BP, and the rest will be the ones taking over alternative fuels). Algae can be produced without taking land(save for the buildings used)unlike other good alternatives like Jathropa, biomass of all kinds and others. Barrack Obama(who joined other Members of Congress of both parties to pass the law about the use of corn ethanol and voted against lowering the tarrif on sugar(very efficient)ethanol from Brazil(rumor was that Brazil cut down the rain forest to grow the cane-BULL)are now wondering what do we do with present vehicles(engine modification, if possible will be costly). Progressives are ignornant(in the main), frustrated and could care less about the "downtrodden" was they ski the slopes or lay on the beaches at high dollar hotels. The efficiency of ethanol production is CONSTANTLY improving. While it is not the sole answer, it most certainly is part of the solution. The main problem is that the vehicles made by Detroit, guzzle ethanol as well as they guzzle gasoline. Link Here's what an ethanol guy, Jeff Broin, has to say about subsidies. "We saved $8 billion in farm payments because we eliminated farm payments for the first time in almost 40 years. We saved the consumer $40 to $60 billion in gas prices with extra supplies that kept prices down. Martha Schlicher: "The study fails to mention that natural gas and electricity use could be eliminated from corn ethanol production today, greatly altering its emission profile." Most of the criticism of ethanol's damage to health and environment has all to do with corporate agricultural practices and nothing to do with ethanol as a fuel. Make the stuff in small batches, don't transport it great distances, use sustainable agricultural practices, it's win-win. Could be that way even with corn, a lousy crop for ethanol production (just as soy is bad for biodiesel). Link Corn ethanol production was foremost a commodity profit ensuring and vote getting mechanism for the lobbyists of the corporate farms and the politicians of the corn producing states. It detracts from the need to change as rapidly as possible into the new technology of the 21 first century. Profits and politics shortsighted as usual tend to come before the farsighted rationality required for the common good. One wages starvation has accelerated in many countries as a result of the lack of corn grain at affordable prices. For every possible solution to a problem, there seems to be ten reasons why it won't work. Or one person's solution is the cause of the problem to another person. I'm beginning to think the end is near, or in the very least, the world is in for a gigantic correction of some kind. Everything that's happening seems to be leading us to massive worldwide unemployment, homelessness, starvation, sickness, etc. which will result in fatal epidemics, killing millions if not billions of people. Link As long as US has the Iowa primaries as the first primary -- actually caucuses -- there is no way to stop the wasteful subsidies that prop up the ethanol industry. They let a vocal and committed minority take over the agenda. On top of that Iowa, a totally unrepresentative state acts as an orifice through which the entire slate of candidates have to pass through really early in the process to even be viable. We just keep talking about election reform every four years just when the primary season is about to get underway -- that too mainly in NPR etc. And then it goes by the way side to give room for coverage for "drew peterson" and the like. I'm reading Plato's "Phaedo" right now and there is a word introduced there, misology, which means hatred of argument. Socrates suggests that if we easily become enthusiastic about one new thing or another, we are bound to be disappointed as most new arguments fail. That disappointment may lead to a feeling that trying anything is pointless. But experience shows that it is possible to make improvements when we try things out. We don't deliver direct current to homes any more, but we do deliver electricity for example. It is understood, really, that biofuels can't do all that much for us. Plants just are not all that efficient at converting sunlight to usable energy. On the other hand, solar panels do enormously better than plants. So, in a way, corn ethanol or even cellulosic ethanol are just a sideshow. No need to look on a failure there as having any great importance. Failures are going to be reported, but that may be good new in the greater scheme of things when better alternatives exist. If we expect that some failures are going to happen, which is realistic, then there will be little urging to despair when they happen. Candidates come to the state more than ONE YEAR before the caucuses, and what's more, more than a year before the Straw Poll in Ames, to talk face-to-face and speak in more than just sound bites. They answer questions about a multitude of issues, more than just what might affect Iowans more so than non-Iowans. The candidates, particularly those who don't have the big budgets, love the ability to visit all the small and big towns in IA so they can stop and talk to real human beings. "America' doesn't just include those living inside the Beltway or on Wall St. "America" includes those who are hard workers, in-depth thinkers, and not easily swayed by the circus which so heavily mesmerizes many of those outside of the state. And then on caucus night, the culmination of all the hard work, voters don't just go to some confined, secretive booth. They have a chance to defend their candidate and occasionally, hear something new about another candidate or their own. With a primary, how many voters do you think actually change their minds between their driveway and booth? Caucuses are for people who aren't afraid to voice their opinions in front of others. It's not so undemocratic to do this rather than just standing in a "democratic" booth with the balance resting on a hanging chad. Sounds like the Founding Fathers would be quite pleased with the caucus p...