Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 52293
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2008/12/22-2009/1/7 [Finance/Investment] UID:52293 Activity:nil
12/22   link:tinyurl.com/9encrb (usnews.com)
        Optimist Roubini sez:
        - Unemployment will continue to increase through 2010
        - 33% probability a multi-year economic stagnation continues beyond
          that
        http://tinyurl.com/7a72mg (bloomberg.com)
        NBER member sez:
        - Unemployment may exceed 10% and could "stay there for a while"
        - 50% change of calling depression over next three years
        \_ To some people, a bad economy is good.  It weeds out competitors.
        \_ Welcome to the Great Depression of Barack Obama
           \_ Didn't Dubya have something to do with it?
        \_ http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/04/pf/forecast_economy1.moneymag
           Economy should turn up in Q2 of 2009.
           \_ You can have GDP being less negative or slightly positive
              in Q2 of 2009, and all of the above still be true.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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Cache (2225 bytes)
tinyurl.com/7a72mg -> www.bloombergnews.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a4aj_38zaLgU
"There's a significant probability things will get worse," Farmer, 53, said during a phone interview today. "We're certainly not at the end of the recession and things are getting worse." A drop in the Conference Board's index of leading indicators, released yesterday, underscores economists' expectations that the recession will be the longest in the postwar era as banks restrict credit, home and stock values plunge, and job losses mount. Farmer said he is predicting the US recession will last at least another year. "Everything depends on business confidence, and what I see is declining confidence," said Farmer, who is also graduate vice-chair of the economics department of the University of California at Los Angeles. The loss of confidence is leading households and companies to undervalue assets, which in turn is hurting consumer spending and investment, he said. Indexed Securities A government fiscal stimulus program will have a "questionable" immediate effect on consumption and financial markets, Farmer said. Instead, he said he supports the idea of letting the Federal Reserve or government step into the stock market by buying indexed securities such as those linked to the Standard & Poor's 500 Index. "I don't think anything from historic episodes suggests that, left to itself, the economy is going to magically recover and come back to full employment," he said. "Certainly, economies can occasionally stagnate and we should be concerned that that could potentially happen again." Employers cut 533,000 jobs from payrolls in November for a total loss so far this year of 19 million, which more than erases the 2007 gain of 11 million. The unemployment rate, now at 67 percent, may go above 10 percent and "potentially stay there for a while," Farmer said. Farmer's views on the likelihood of a depression contrast with those of other economists, such as New York University professor Nouriel Roubini, who told Bloomberg Television last week that he sees a severe recession and not a depression. The NBER's economic fluctuations and growth program focuses on the US economy. The program includes the Business Dating Committee, which officially marks the beginning and end of recessions and expansions.
Cache (5734 bytes)
money.cnn.com/2008/11/04/pf/forecast_economy1.moneymag -> money.cnn.com/2008/11/04/pf/forecast_economy1.moneymag/
Subscribe to Money (Money Magazine) -- Well, we were partly right. At this time last year, we said that the stock market would be increasingly volatile in 2008, that home prices would fall further and that a subprime blowup could propel the economy downward. But not in our wildest dreams did we foresee anything like the kind of jaw-dropping, stomach-churning ride that lay ahead. Credit markets frozen worse than Sarah Palin's hometown? But even though predictions always turn out to be flawed - it's impossible for even the smartest experts to nail this stuff perfectly - you cannot build a future without first guessing what challenges you'll face on the way there. It has taught us that recessions tend to push inflation lower; Most of all, history shows us that downturns don't last forever - and that it's when people are most disheartened that rebounds begin. The economy The prediction: The recovery will begin in the second quarter of the year. As 2008 draws to a close, fears of a recession seem almost quaint. For many people spooked by the vicious credit crisis and the 2008 stock market meltdown, the real fear now is the D-word. Six in 10 Americans believe a depression is somewhat or very likely, according to a recent poll by CNN/Opinion Research Corporation. The catastrophic 10% annual decline in economic output that marks a depression is simply not going to happen, according to even the most pessimistic mainstream economic forecasters. The gloomiest of the bunch aren't calling for anything remotely close to the crushing 25% unemployment rate seen during the Great Depression that began in 1929. That's partly because back in the days when people were cooking up bathtub gin, the unprecedented actions taken by the US and European governments this past fall to help stabilize the global financial system weren't even imaginable. Still, few of us will feel like popping champagne corks in 2009. The consensus among nearly 50 economists polled each month by Blue Chip Economic Indicators is that a recession (officially defined as two or more consecutive quarters of declining gross domestic product) started in July and will continue throughout the first three months of 2009 (see the chart to the right). The economists estimate that the economy - staggering under the credit crunch and one of the worst housing busts this nation has ever seen - will continue to shrink by 01% in the first quarter. GDP growth is forecast to hit about 25% by the end of 2009, below the US economy's long-term annual growth rate of about 3%. But this recession, even if it's relatively short and shallow, is likely to leave you feeling queasy for quite some time after it's officially over. One reason: The unemployment rate is expected to keep rising throughout 2009, to 7% by the end of the year (see the chart). "If you define recession by GDP, it could be over by the spring," says Maury Harris, chief US economist at UBS. "If you define it instead by the unemployment rate, which tells you a lot more about how people are feeling, you'll probably have to wait until 2010 for things to start improving." To be sure, the US government has been pulling out all the stops to alleviate the credit crisis, including a massive injection of capital into the troubled financial system. Thanks to the bursting of the housing bubble, consumers can no longer borrow against their homes with abandon. Because consumer spending represents 71% of gross domestic product, any reduction in it could be a big drag on the economy. "You can throw every policy you want at the housing market, but you can't stop the fundamental price correction that is still required to offset the speculative excesses of the bubble," says Jared Bernstein, a senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute. Add the cost of the bailout to the record $455 billion federal deficit (some economists think the deficit could reach close to $1 trillion in 2009) and you can expect still more pain - in the form of higher taxes to pay for it all. "I don't care who gets elected in November," says Barry Ritholtz, CEO of research firm Fusion IQ. The wild card The mideast tensions over Iran's nuclear program are already mounting. If there's a military flare-up in the region, the price of oil - about $65 a barrel at press time, down from a record high of $147 in mid-July - could skyrocket again, sending the US economy into a much longer and deeper recession. The action plan Keep your eye on three key signs that the overall economic picture is improving. These clues can help you decide when to make moves you may have put on ice for now, such as starting a business or moving to a bigger home. The wider the spread, the more skittish banks are about lending. when it drops below 1% you'll know the credit market is almost back to normal. com, search for the three-month Libor rate and the three-month T-bill rate, and then subtract the T-bill rate from Libor. Six months of inventory appears to be the sweet spot for a healthy market; The National Association of Realtors puts out the inventory data each month, usually between the 22nd and the 25th. "When you see those numbers start to come down below 400,000, that'll be a very good sign that the worst of the pain is over," says Brian Wesbury, chief economist at First Trust Advisors. Stocks' wild ride: 8 days to remember Stocks were on a roller coaster in 2008 as investors tried to keep up with bailouts, bankruptcies, a credit crisis and a long recession. Business Leader Council Live Quotes automatically refresh, but individual equities are delayed 15 minutes for Nasdaq, and 20 minutes for other exchanges. Market indexes are shown in real time, except for the DJIA, which is delayed by two minutes.