12/5 I suggest CSUA buy a Mac and run MacOS on it. Maybe run Linux in
a VM, too. I think students will get more bang for their buck
trying to run services on MacOS than with "Just Another Linux Box".
\_ On what basis? We do have an AppleTV, which we've yet to hack
so it runs full OS X, but as a OS X user myself, I don't see the
OS being useful for useful services except if we get OS X server
and a proper OS X box, since that's what has all of the value
added by using OS X (i.e. admin interfaces, basically).
--toulouse
\_ Build the services you want from source. Getting stuff to
work in an alien environment is how you learn. Now that
people are spoonfed RPMs a lot of the real nuts and bolts of
\_ you are a great man, sysadmining in asm.
the OS are being hidden just as they are in Windows. You'd
learn a hell of a lot more about both the services and about
MacOS by attempting to build and run some stuff on a Mac, IMO.
CSUA is a great playground for that. I don't think you want a
bulletproof server that is easy to maintain. Where's the
challenge in that? As a student I'd want a Mac, an OpenSolaris
box, an NT box, and even a VMS box if I could get my hands on
one. Nothing like trying to build your favorite server app on VMS
to help you understand the app, the libraries it depends on, and
the OS a lot better. Back when I was learning I needed to
compile X11 from source and learned a lot about it that way.
Now it ships with the OS. Can you run your favorite window
manager on MacOS under X11? TWM would be awesome. Enquiring
minds want to know.
\_ TWM and awesome? Are you high?
\_ I have a mac laptop and I've used fink, macports, as well as
plain-ol' command-line ./configure and make. So does the VP.
I did in fact compile a few window managers on OS X, then
threw them away because I realized I never spend any time in X
on Macs anyway (and now it's broken for some reason on my
laptop). Learning to compile stuff can be done pretty easily on
Debian too, since you have the crutch of libraries if you want
or can just download and build everything yourself anyways,
setting --PREFIX=$HOME/local so you don't need root for
installation. I tried Nexenta (in a VM), but I couldn't think
of anything to do on it, since I already have a server at my
parents' home, my Linux computer, my mac, and soda itself.
laptop). Learning to compile stuff can be done pretty easily
on Debian too, since you have the crutch of libraries if you
want or can just download and build everything yourself
anyways, setting --PREFIX=$HOME/local so you don't need root
for installation. I tried Nexenta (in a VM), but I couldn't
think of anything to do on it, since I already have a server
at my parents' home, my Linux computer, my mac, and soda
itself.
\_ So what's your point here? Is your Mac laptop accessible
to the entire CSUA? BTW, I use X11 on my Mac almost
non-stop. To me it (and commandline *NIX commands) are
the best thing about MacOS versus Windows other than I
like the Mac laptop hardware a lot better. Debian
teaches you nothing really, since most configure
scripts know about Linux and do a lot of the work for
you and there's a lot of Linux-based help easily found
on Google.
\_ Buying a mac so people can tinker with it is a dumb idea.
\_ Buying a mac so people can tinker with it is a dumb
idea.
\_ I think buying a new Linux box when you already
have one is a dumb idea. OpenSolaris is dead.
MacOS has a future. It would be a useful skill
to know MacOS in addition to FreeBSD and Linux boxes
which *already* exist. I think it's reasonable
that CSUA members might get jobs developing on
Mac platform.
\_ Whoa there. Developing on OS X and administrating
OS X are two entirely different monsters. There is
nothing stopping people from playing with XCode,
Interface Builder, etc. and learning all of the
ropes can be done an an el cheapo OS X box. --t
\_ Which is why I think CSUA should buy an el
cheapo OS X box. Whether it is used for
development, sysadmin, or something else
is up to the user community. I would say
all of the above. I think it's money
better spent than upgrading the current
(adequate) soda.
\_ What are you smoking? Restarting keg multiple
times *per day* is far from adequate, and it
isn't for soda that we're upgrading. We want
to reduce the load on keg drastically, and
one consequence of getting a new server is
\_ What are you smoking? Restarting keg
multiple times *per day* is far from
adequate, and it isn't for soda that
we're upgrading. We want to reduce the
load on keg drastically, and one
consequence of getting a new server is
that we can also take the opportunity to
re-organize our current computing resources.
(i.e. run things in VMs so we can move stuff
around later without too much fuss). --t
Running FreeBSD or some variant of OpenSolaris would be
far more useful. Debian teaches you plenty, if you're
coming in at an entry level. Are you saying that because
there's more help and crutches for linux that we will be
less capable for using it? I don't buy it.
In summary: for servers, macs are minimal benefit for
maximal cost, for the CSUA. Debian is a good start.
--toulouse
\_ By the way, there is plenty of evidence already
that the current politburo is less capable. We
can debate whether Linux is to blame, but it
plays some part.
\_ Considering the shit I've seen as a lab assistant,
reader, tutor, and TA, I assure you that there are
very, very, very few capable people in general.
Until I pointed out how incredibly stupid it was,
the submission method for a project for a class I'm
involved with was for the TAs to look at the
modtime of a file to verify that the files were not
edited after the due date. --t(oulouse)
the submission method for a project for a class
I'm involved with was for the TAs to look at the
modtime of a file to verify that the files were
not edited after the due date. --t(oulouse)
\_ Shut your trap. Judging from what I've seen this
is the most competent politburo we've had in a
long time. -jrleek
\_ Point taken, but it wasn't a high bar to pass.
\_ Running LDAPNFSCRONVI off of a VM running in Parallels on a new
\_ Running LDAPNFSCRONVILARP off of a VM running in Parallels on a new
MacBook Pro is the best solution.
\_ the MacBook Air would be more appropriate for kewl factor. |
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