Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 52157
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2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

2008/12/3-8 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:52157 Activity:kinda low
12/3    Are any of you CSUA alums working at Intel?  Is it possible that we
        might be able to hit Intel up for donated/partially donated (reduced
        price) Core i7 Xeons when they come out?  Who would be a good person
        to contact about something like that?  We're of course willing to put
        out for them - perhaps we'll tattoo an Intel logo on toulouse if that's
        what they want :-p  -- steven
        \_ fyi my wife recently started there and they eliminated the employee
           discount on CPUs a few months ago
        \_ I work at Oracle and I can get you 25% discount on our license
           and bronze level support. How many CPUs are you thinking? With
           a 25% discount, each CPU support is only $75,000/year.
           \_ Why are you guys so obsessed getting an i7-based machine?
              You look like salivating hardware dweebs, rather than people
              with a plan.
              \_ Well, this is the CPU-Salivating Undergrad Association,
                 isn't it?
                 \_ Drool
              \_ I love Oracle and Larry Ellison is my master. We're trained
                 samurais and we'll obliterate anyone who makes us lose
                 face. Shut up and buy Oracle. You have no choice.
              \_ Because they're shiny.  What, are you saying we should buy old
                 stuff?  Because, as best I can tell, buying ghetto/janky
                 equipment is most of the reason our stuff goes down so often.
                 Why so much hate?  Do you want us to buy more secondhand or
                 outdated gear that can't stay up for more than five minutes
                 at a time?  If you're so convinced we don't have a plan,
                 why don't you suggest one?
                     \_ stop having  a "cpu centric view" instead of a
                        "what problem are you trying to solve" centric view.
                        what is the csua's hardware budget? is you want
                        an i7 to play games, that makes logical sense although
                        seems politically objectionle, but all this stuff about
                        virtual machines and zfs etc doesnt make sense.
                        you arent trying to replicate the ocf on a single
                        machine.
                        \_ I don't imagine we'd buy Core i7 Xeons for the
                           purpose of playing games.
                           --toulouse
                           \_ So what are you going to do? Linear algebra
                              homework?
                 \_ On the contrary, it's often the shiny stuff that doesn't
                    have all the bugs worked out. Old/outdated and shiny/new
                    are not the only options here. I sense a third choice...
                    \_ Seconded.  I was around when we bought a shiny new dual-
                       Xeon for (the current) soda.  FreeBSD didn't support
                       some of the HW, so now we run Linux and it breaks all
                       the time.
                    \_ Seriously.  You can go out today and spend < $1000 and
                       get a brand new computer with quality timetested
                       hardware that will fulfill csua's hardware needs
                       10x over.  Spend a little more and you can get some
                       lower end machines to play with/learn how to sysadmin.
                 \_ Ironically, right now the two machines with the most problems
                    are keg and scotch.  Those are our two remaining FreeBSD
                    machines.  Soda has a month of uptime, which is definitely
                    not great, but it's certainly not crashing all the time.
                    I do like FreeBSD but it's certainly not being the all-star
                    right now.  I suspect that scotch has a hardware problem but
                    keg is unclear whether it's a hardware or software problem.
                 \_ Ironically, right now the two machines with the most
                    problems are keg and scotch.  Those are our two remaining
                    FreeBSD machines.  Soda has a month of uptime, which is
                    definitely not great, but it's certainly not crashing all
                    the time. I do like FreeBSD but it's certainly not being
                    the all-star right now.  I suspect that scotch has a
                    hardware problem but keg is unclear whether it's a
                    hardware or software problem.
                    \- the freebsd machine with problems isnt fbsd7+multicore
                       is it? we are trying to solve a diffcult problem with
                       that combination and would be interested in other cases.
                       although i assume this is ancient hw with bugs. btw in
                       my fairly long experience linux does worse things on
                       buggy hw than freebsd. like corrupt data without
                       detection. this may have gotten better in linux-recent
                       [i admit linux-recent doesnt drive me insane daily
                       like it used to]. --psb
        \_ I miss those days when soda was a 20 * 386DX-25 machine.
           \_ I certainly learned a lot.  I remember when it was a big
              deal that I had soda up for 100 days in a row.  (wow!)
              But that setup was due to necessity; I agree that a big
              honking hardware purchase isn't really necessary.  Start
              by trying to get experience developing and sizing a
              scalable configuration--that'll be more valuable than
              throwing a huge piece of hardware at the problem.  -tom
              \_ Agreed. Sysadm is NEVER about getting the equipment and
                 the people you need. You almost NEVER get the resources
                 you requested for. Sysadm is taking what you have at hand
                 and try to make the best out of it while not bringing down
                 the organization.
                 \_ Scotch - broken. Keg - overloaded, and 16 disks amounting
                    to about 5TB of data; Lifesaver - dead. Making do with
                    broken computers is not a viable plan. Buying a server now
                    means it will be obsolete in a few months, and will be a
                    waste of money.
                    waste of money. --toulouse
                          \- so is buying a $3k computer to do a job
                             better done by 2 $1k computers.
                    \_ High end brand new computer components depreciate a
                       hell of a lot faster than middle of the road workhorse
                       components.  Cheap computer hardware is insanely fast
                       these days.
                    \_ Look, it's your network to run, I'm not going to tell
                       you how to do it.  But I think you probably haven't
                       looked at where your bottlenecks are; does CPU really
                       matter to the services you're running?  I always buy
                       servers with CPUs two and three generations removed
                       from the cutting edge, unless the application will
                       be CPU-bound, which it rarely is.  A server doesn't
                       become obsolete just because someone came out with
                       a new chipset; it becomes obsolete when it no longer
                       works for your application.  -tom
                       \_ I rarely agree with tom because he's such a
                          stubborn ass but this is one time I'll say...
                          +1 to tom's advice.           -anon sysadm
                       \_ I have to agree with Tom on this. The CPUs and
                          memory are unlikely to be the bottleneck. --jwm
                          memory speed are unlikely to be the bottleneck.
                          A slightly older chip would is likely to be fine
                          and more stable. --jwm
                          \_ On the other hand, the CSUA is a place for people
                             to experiment and try out the new stuff, even if
                             it is to a certain extent at the cost of
                             some reliability. -ausman
                             \_ "we want to 'try out' a really fast
                                processor because it is cool" isnt a
                                serious project. this smacks of geekery
                                not leadership. now if you spent a modest
                                amount on say a ps3 to get exposure to the
                                cell, i could see that might be interesting
                                [eventhough more likely than not such a
                                purchase would be to "test" video games].
                    \_ Computers are always obsolete "in a few months".
                        \_ Intel doesn't release a shiny new architecture that
                           finally catches up to AMD in many respects every few
                           months.
                           \_ Have you been hiding the last few processor
                              cycles?  AMD hasn't exactly been on top of
                              its game.
                           \_ What difference does it make?  How would the
                              services be different on a new processor?
                              Are CSUA people writing assembly code?  This
                              isn't like a new game console where the
                              supported applications are totally different;
                              the applications won't care what the underlying
                              processor architecture is.  -tom
2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

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        \_ Awwww, too bad                                       -Intel
           \_ My heart bleeds for you. --transmeta.
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                 \_ Hello transmeta-coward, meet another transmeta-coward.
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        ask -- what exactly do you think the CSUA is supposed to _be_?
        \_ Noone said VMs weren't needed.  They suggested you use the
        \_ No one said VMs weren't needed.  They suggested you use the
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