10/23   So, day trader guy, what's your method? What are you trading?
        \_ BIGGS: (over headset) Hurry up, Luke!
        \_ I'm doing week trade. I trade index like DIA and QQQQ, which
           don't have as big of a movement. I set my expectations to be
           low (5-8% up down). I set limit (if up, sell 1/2, if down,
           buy more). I don't like day trade anymore, it's too stressful.
           Week trade is the way to go.
           \_ This sounds like the old coin-flip double-down strategy.
              If the index trends downward, won't you lose money this
              way? Or, actually you'll end up with all your money in
              the index, which I guess will eventually go back up if you
              wait long enough... -op
              \_ You'll never time it perfectly. You'll always miss
                 opportunities. The hardest thing is getting in at the
                 right time. When people panic and all is gloom, that's
                 when I go in. By doing so, I don't make big bucks, but
                 I don't lose much either. By the way, I only use this
                 strategy when I anticipate the market to be flat
                 (recession), where you can ride a lot of micro-waves.
                 \_ Interesting, when things are up you just buy and hold?
                    That's actually pretty reasonable...  How long have you
                    been doing this?
                    \_ Been doing it this year, with anticipation of a long
                       recession. My dad did the same thing in the housing
                       slump and recession of the 90s (1994-1998). You can't
                       do this when the economy is booming/rising... only
                       when it's slumping and flat. When everyone panics,
                       that's a good time to buy. Look at 911 and the stock
                       prices during that time. Note that there are some
                       index that I bought that are higher than it is now, and
                       I'm just holding them on till the next boom, maybe
                       in 5-8 years. The key is to not tie a lot of money
                       that you'll need, and instead break it up into a bunch
                       of chunks and *ladder* it so that you'll always have
                       an in/out flow of capitals. And also expect to not see
                       1/2 of that money till the next boom. You'll make it
                       really well, it's just a matter of time (1-2 decades).
              way? -op
        \_ I'm a different guy, but I was trading MS until recently. Still
           am sometimes. Been doing WFT, but it has been scarier and I'm
           rethinking that. Also sometimes GS and GE. GE is not a great trade,
           but the advantage is that if you get stuck it will usually work its
           way back and it's not a terrible stock to own if you become a
           bagholder. Trade stocks you wouldn't mind buying and holding.
           (Except MS, which is purely speculative on my part, I do.) My
           method involves buying in on weakness and selling high. Duh. Find a
           stock with a lot of volatility (just about everything right now), a
           decent volume, and a recent history of wide swings in *both*
           directions.  (Don't buy something just working its way down except
           to short.) I adjust my stops so that I never lose more than my goal
           (usually 10% but in this volatile market, even 10% stops me out
           too early sometimes). I try not to hold overnight. Occasionally I
           do. It's a good way to: 1) Get screwed, or 2) Score a big gain, and
           3) Die young of heart failure.  Another rule: Never trade in the
           first hour the market opens unless you are liquidating an overnight
           position. I use a lot of technical indicator mumbo jumbo, but I
           find it relatively useless in this market. Just buy low, sell high.
           If the trade turns against you sell for a loss and live to fight
           another day, but don't sell too early. Set your stops so that
           the stock has room to wiggle. Sell short *and* long to make money
           both ways. Buy options for leverage. I tend to do this more for
           short plays, because options have a fixed downside compared to a
           short sale, margin is a bitch, and lots of stocks have had short
           restrictions lately (if you can find shares to short!) Also, be
           keenly aware of the federal regulations involving day trading (e.g.
           settled money, minimum balances, buying power). I learned a lot of
           these the hard way. Profits have been down this week but I am
           still green for the week and overall. The market tends to move
           *very* quickly when it does move and my biggest failing over
           the week has been being away from my computer during the day's
           high/low and not having a sell order in place because I wanted
           to "let it run" and it runs against me in a matter of minutes.
           This is why I've had small gains when I could have had large ones.
           Example: Stock opens at 14. Buy stock at 13.50. Stock drops to
           12.50 (still not 10%). Keep holding. Stock moves to 14.50. Adjust
           Example: Stock opens at 14. Buy stock at 13. Stock drops to 12
           (still not 10% from 13). Keep holding. Stock moves to 14.50. Adjust
           bottom stop all the way to, say 14, but don't have a limit sell in
           because I want to see if it hits 15 and "I can always sell on the
           way down". Go make coffee (or something) secure that my profit is
           "locked in" (it's not going to fall .50 in 15 minutes and I
           have a sell in at 14).  Get back and see that it's trading at
           have a stop sell in at 14).  Get back and see that it's trading at
           14.30. Shit. Okay. Just sell. Type type type. Order in. Buy the
           time it executes stock is at 14.20. Take small(er) profit and be
           thankful. Stock closes at 14 again. Realize that SOB stock
           actually went all the way to 14.70 while I was away. Curse
           fricking $500 cup of coffee. This has happened more than once
           and I need to pay more careful attention. Daytrading is
           sometimes all about a few moments in a long trading day.
           \_ Where do you read about the federal rules?  I understand there
              is a 3-day settlement period on trades (ie, the money from
              is not available for buying for 3 days) , but trading on
              margin takes care of this?
              \_ Yes, you pretty much need a margin account or else you
                 need to trade less frequently or with a smaller % of your
                 capital. This is because of Reg T (free ride). You will
                 also need a $25K minimum balance and be aware that buying
                 power for daytrading is 4x but if you hold overnight it
                 is only 2x. Calculating exactly how much $$$ you can
                 trade with without a call cqn be nasty. Your broker can
                 help you and I understand some online brokerages do this
                 math for you but mine doesn't.
                 \_ You are daytrading on margin?? Please post to the motd
                    the day you go broke, which will probably be sooner
                    rather than later.
                    \_ You pretty much *have* to daytrade on margin, brainiac.
                       This is because of the regulations mentioned above.
                       However, it doesn't mean what you think it does.
                       Trading on margin doesn't necessarily mean I:
                       1) Trade more than the cash value of my account, or
                       2) Pay interest.
                       For example, let us say I have $100K in my account.
                       I buy stock XYZ for $40K. I sell it later that
                       day for $60K. Then I buy ABC for $40K and sell it
                       for $60K the same day. Using a cash account I can
                       only execute one more trade that day (for $20K) and
                       indeed for the next 3 days until settlement even
                       though I made $40K because you have to use settled
                       funds to trade. A margin account avoids all of
                       that, because when you buy on margin you don't have
                       to wait for settlement. Anything else you don't
                       know that I can help you with?
           \_ MS as in Morgan Stanley or Microsoft?
              \_ If you have to ask this you are not ready for my advice.
                 \_ Ah, get off yer high horse.  This is the motd.  Not that
                    I was planning to day trade anyway.