Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 50767
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2018/05/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2008/8/3-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:50767 Activity:kinda low
8/3     It is much better to have homogeneous suburbs than diverse cities:
        \_ you know why "It's a small world" is such a happy ride?
           because every race is segregated.. if u mixed them up
           there'd be wars and genocides on that disney ride
           \_ BEST (FUNNY) RESPONSE EVER. Thanks! :)
           \_ I was on that ride a couple times and the only thing I didn't
              like was that the music was too loud.  Never though that the
              whole thing was actually politically incorrect.
        \_ I always knew that diversity is good EXCEPT when Latinos
           and Mexicans are involved. I've lived through LAUSD for
           18 years and things are in fact deteriorating. However, like
           Putnam, I keep this to myself because every Liberal thinks
           diversity regardless of the type of diversity is good.
        \_ I'm not saying this dude's data is bad.  I'm just surprised because
           I think of the places I lived, and the ones that were the most
           souless/didn't know anyone who lived around me were the ones where
           pretty much everyone was the same.  To be fair, I really wasn't
           so maybe the benefit of homogenity only works when you identify
           with the majority?
        \_ I read "The Geography of Happiness" and apparently cultural
           homogeneity is is a big element of societal happiness.
           Homogeneous groups were much more like to be happy groups.
           Some of what this article mentions matches my experience as well.
           Any difference in norms is a potential conflict, so people do often
           hunker down.  I had some Mexican neighbors I liked OK in my old
           house, but we clashed a few times, and I put up with a lot of
           weird crap just because I didn't want to fight about it.  (Who
           keeps a rooster in a highly populated area?)  I got along much
           better with my White neighbors even though I liked the Mexicans
           \_ My amazingly white mormon nneighbors kept a rooster.  And it
           \_ My amazingly white mormon neighbors kept a rooster.  And it
              wasn't in a rural area.
              \_ Doesn't religious diversity count?
              \_ Doesn't religious diversity count?  The problem is cultural
                 homogenaity, not race per se.  In my case one group was
                 Mexican, and the other was CA style white trash.  If you
                 were Mormon, you'd see those guys at church, and it would be
                 pretty easy to find a chance to say, "Hey, your rooster is
                 waking my daughter up at 4 am every morning.  Why do you have
                 rooster?"  If you don't have some sort of common cultural
                 raport, you have no idea how your neighbor will react of your
                 inquiry, and you'll tend to hunker down instead.
                 diverity, not race per se.  If you were Mormon, you would see
                 them at church and it would be easy to ask why they have a
                 rooster waking your daughter at 4am every morning.  With no
                 social/cultural rapport it is much more difficult to
                 predict their reaction, and judge how you should approch the
                 the situaltion.  So people hunker down instead.
                 (Sorry, somebody squished this.)
                 \_ The mormonness is just to point out just how blindingly
                    white they were.  "Step outside and instantly burn on an
                    overcast day" white.
        \_ Racial integration is sex-based.  Until they start screwing each
           other's women and having mixed kids people mostly stick within
           their own ethnic groups.
           Therefore my new liberal government plan is arranged marriages
           between races.
           \_ Is that why I see so many asian chicks with white dudes?
              \_ It's because the Asian chicks are gold-diggers who somehow
                 find prestige in dating white men and those particular white
                 men are too geeky to even try to hook up with hot Nordic
                 blondes but still won't date fat chicks. They produce mongrel
                 children who possess the worst traits of both.
           \_ Are you a Moonie?
2018/05/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

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Cache (5185 bytes)
VIEW SELECTED RESPONSES John Leo Bowling With Our Own Robert Putnam's sobering new diversity research scares its author. His five-year study shows that immigration and ethnic diversity have a devastating short- and medium-term influence on the social capital, fabric of associations, trust, and neighborliness that create and sustain communities. He fears that his work on the surprisingly negative effects of diversity will become part of the immigration debate, even though he finds that in the long run, people do forge new communities and new ties. Putnam's study reveals that immigration and diversity not only reduce social capital between ethnic groups, but also within the groups themselves. Trust, even for members of one's own race, is lower, altruism and community cooperation rarer, friendships fewer. The problem isn't ethnic conflict or troubled racial relations, but withdrawal and isolation. Putnam writes: "In colloquial language, people living in ethnically diverse settings appear to hunker down'--that is, to pull in like a turtle." In the 41 sites Putnam studied in the US, he found that the more diverse the neighborhood, the less residents trust neighbors. This proved true in communities large and small, from big cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, and Boston to tiny Yakima, Washington, rural South Dakota, and the mountains of West Virginia. In diverse San Francisco and Los Angeles, about 30 percent of people say that they trust neighbors a lot. In ethnically homogeneous communities in the Dakotas, the figure is 70 percent to 80 percent. Diversity does not produce "bad race relations," Putnam says. Rather, people in diverse communities tend "to withdraw even from close friends, to expect the worst from their community and its leaders, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more, but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to huddle unhappily in front of the television." Putnam adds a crushing footnote: his findings "may underestimate the real effect of diversity on social withdrawal." Neither age nor disparities of wealth explain this result. "Americans raised in the 1970s," he writes, "seem fully as unnerved by diversity as those raised in the 1920s." And the "hunkering down" occurred no matter whether the communities were relatively egalitarian or showed great differences in personal income. Even when communities are equally poor or rich, equally safe or crime-ridden, diversity correlates with less trust of neighbors, lower confidence in local politicians and news media, less charitable giving and volunteering, fewer close friends, and less happiness. Putnam has long been aware that his findings could have a big effect on the immigration debate. Last October, he told the Financial Times that "he had delayed publishing his research until he could develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity." He said it "would have been irresponsible to publish without that," a quote that should raise eyebrows. Academics aren't supposed to withhold negative data until they can suggest antidotes to their findings. Nor has Putnam made details of his study available for examination by peers and the public. So far, he has published only an initial summary of his findings, from a speech he gave after winning an award in Sweden, in the June issue of Scandinavian Political Studies. His office said Putnam is in Britain, working on a religion project at the University of Manchester, and is currently too busy to grant an interview. Putnam's study does make two positive points: in the long run, increased immigration and diversity are inevitable and desirable, and successful immigrant societies "dampen the negative effects of diversity" by constructing new identities. Social psychologists have long favored the optimistic hypothesis that contact between different ethnic and racial groups increases tolerance and social solidarity. For instance, white soldiers assigned to units with black soldiers after World War II were more relaxed about desegregation of the army than were soldiers in all-white units. But Putnam acknowledges that most empirical studies do not support the "contact hypothesis." In general, they find that the more people are brought into contact with those of another race or ethnicity, the more they stick to their own, and the less they trust others. Putnam writes: "Across local areas in the United States, Australia, Sweden Canada and Britain, greater ethnic diversity is associated with lower social trust and, at least in some cases, lower investment in public goods." Though Putnam is wary of what right-wing politicians might do with his findings, the data might give pause to those on the left, and in the center as well. If he's right, heavy immigration will inflict social deterioration for decades to come, harming immigrants as well as the native-born. Putnam is hopeful that eventually America will forge a new solidarity based on a "new, broader sense of we." The problem is how to do that in an era of multiculturalism and disdain for assimilation.