Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 50721
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2025/04/02 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/2     

2008/7/29-8/5 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Science/Space] UID:50721 Activity:nil
7/29    More ice breaking off:
        "Giant chunks break off Canadian ice shelf"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080729/wl_canada_nm/canada_arctic_col
        "Temperatures in large parts of the Arctic have risen far faster than
        the global average in recent decades, a development that experts say
        is linked to global warming."
        \_ It's summer.
           http://icecap.us/images/uploads/NSIDC071708.JPG
           \_ It didn't break off in 3000 other summers:
              '"Whatever has kept this ice shelf in balance for 3,000 years is
              no longer keeping it in balance," he told Reuters, saying he too
              would not be surprised to see more ice breaking away from the
              Ward Hunt shelf this year.'
              \_ So since it's been warmer in the past 3000 years, global
                 temperature must not be the triggering factor.  What about the
                 rise of volcanism in the arctic?
                 \_ Water keeps heat over time, and it probably took longer
                    than a couple of months to go from stable for 3000 years
                    to where it is now.  But don't stop wearing those
                    blinders, they look good on you.
                    \_ Sigh. I know water has a heat capacity.  There have been
                       warmer trends for longer in the last 3000 years.
                   ty.  There have been
                       warmer trends for longer in the last 3000 years.
                       \_ See billy, elves did it.  And I prove that by
                          making up data!
                          \_ Hell, elves are more consistent than AGW, which
                             seems to make no falsifiable claims.
                             \_ So where is your 3000 year old temperature
                                data?
                                \_ GTFW "medieval warm period"
                                   \_ "the idea of a global or
                                      hemispheric "Medieval Warm
                                      Period" that was warmer than
                                      today however, has turned out to
                                      be incorrect" and that what
                                      those "records that do exist
                                      show is that there was no
                                      multi-century periods when
                                      global or hemispheric
                                      temperatures were the same or
                                      warmer than in the 20th century" (NOAA)
                                      \_ Damn you and your facts!  Don't
                                         ruin a perfectly good rehashed
                                         flamewar.
                                      \_ "The summers 9,500 years ago were
                                         warmer than today"
                                         http://tinyurl.com/5nc58b
                                         \_ 3000 < 9500
                                            \_ Damn, you're right.  It's out of
                                               the time range, so we must be
                                               causing this warming.
                                               \_ Nice blinders.  Wanna fuck?
                    \_ Guys!  Note that I already inserted the flamewar
                       placeholder for you.  No need to actually have
                       the same old flamewar again.
        \_ Insert usual AGW flamewar here.
2025/04/02 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/2     

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news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080729/wl_canada_nm/canada_arctic_col
Reuters Giant chunks break off Canadian ice shelf By David Ljunggren Tue Jul 29, 1:30 PM ET OTTAWA (Reuters) - Giant sheets of ice totaling almost eight square miles broke off an ice shelf in the Canadian Arctic last week and more could follow later this year, scientists said on Tuesday. WnmfDxJJQDxrGIF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1217380550/L=NTtclUWTVvr83xETQI4Vvw f4RTfow0iPpKYABtv9/B=BC7tENj8els-/J=1217373350502909/A=5406809/R=0/* Temperatures in large parts of the Arctic have risen far faster than the global average in recent decades, a development that experts say is linked to global warming. The ice broke away from the shelf on Ward Hunt Island, an small island just off giant Ellesmere Island in one of the northernmost parts of Canada. It was the largest fracture of its kind since the nearby Ayles ice shelf -- which measured 25 square miles -- broke away in 2005. Scientists had already identified deep cracks in the Ward Hunt shelf, which measures around 155 square miles. The shelf is one of five along Ellesmere Island in the northern Arctic. "Because the break-off occurred between two large parallel cracks they're thinking more could go this summer before the freeze sets in," said Trudy Wohlleben of the Canadian Ice Service. Asked to be more specific, she told Reuters: "More could be a piece as large as the Ayles ice shelf." Ellesmere Island was once home to a single enormous ice shelf totaling around 3,500 square miles. All that is left of that shelf today are five much smaller shelves that together cover just under 400 square miles. "The break-off is consistent with other changes we've seen in the area, such as the reduction in the amount of sea ice, the retreat of the glaciers and the break-up of other ice shelves," Wohlleben said. She said a likely reason for the shelf breaking away was a strong wind from the south. Warwick Vincent, director of the Centre for Northern Studies at Laval University in Quebec, said much of the remaining Ward Hunt ice shelf is now in a vulnerable state. "It underscores the fact that each year we're now crossing new thresholds in environmental change in the High Arctic, and of course our concern in the longer term is that these may signal the onset of serious change at all latitudes, much further to the south, for example," he told Reuters. Derek Mueller, an Arctic ice shelf specialist at Trent University in Ontario, said he was concerned by the rapidity of changes in the High Arctic over the last few years. "It's a bit of a wake-up call for those people who aren't yet affected by climate change that there are places on earth that are, and the same could be true for them (these people) if you fast-forward a decade or two or three," he said. Mueller initially estimated that 15 square miles of ice had broken off the shelf but increased that figure to eight square miles after studying the data more closely. "Whatever has kept this ice shelf in balance for 3,000 years is no longer keeping it in balance," he told Reuters, saying he too would not be surprised to see more ice breaking away from the Ward Hunt shelf this year. Wohlleben said the ice shelves, which contained unique ecosystems that had yet to be studied, would not be replaced because they took so long to form. A 2006 satellite image of the Ward Hunt ice shelf in the Canadian Arctic. Giant sheets of ice totaling almost eight square miles broke off the ice shelf last week and more could follow later this year, scientists said on Tuesday. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
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tinyurl.com/5nc58b -> www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/04/17/eatree117.xml
Read comments The world's oldest tree has been found in Sweden, a tenacious spruce that first took root just after the end of the last ice age, more than 9,500 years ago. Oldest trees The tree has rewritten the history of the climate in the region The tree has rewritten the history of the climate in the region, revealing that it was much warmer at that time and the ice had disappeared earlier than thought. Previously, pine trees in North America were thought to be the oldest, at around 5,000 years old. But Swedish scientists report that in the mountains, from Lapland in the north to Dalarna in central Sweden, there are much more ancient spruce trees (Picea abies). Prof Leif Kullman at Ume University and colleagues found a cluster of around 20 spruces that are over 8,000 years old. The oldest tree, in Fulu Mountain, Dalarna ("the dales"), was dated by carbon dating at a laboratory in Miami, Florida to 9,550 years old and underneath the crown in the soil there were another three generations of wood from the same clone, dating 375, 5,660 and 9,000 years old that have the same genetic makeup. The clones take root each winter as snow pushes low lying branches of the mother tree down to ground level, explains Prof Kullman. "A new erect stem emerges, and it may lose contact with the mother tree over time." advertisement The trunks of the mother tree would survive only around 600 years but the trees are able to grow a new one, he adds. The finding is surprising because the spruce tree has been regarded as a relative newcomer in the Swedish mountain region and is thought to have originated 600 miles away in the east. "Our results migration in the complete opposite direction has be considered, because the spruce is one of the oldest known trees in the mountain range," says Prof Kullman. Ten millennia ago, a spruce would have been extremely rare and it is conceivable that the ancient humans who lived there imported the tree, he says. We have also found fossil acorns in this area, and people may have taken them with them as they moved over the landscape." It had been thought that this region was still in the grip of the ice age but the tree shows it was much warmer, even than today, he says. "Spruces are the species that can best give us insight about climate change," he says. The summers 9,500 years ago were warmer than today, though there has been a rapid recent rise as a result of climate change that means modern climate is rapidly catching up. The tree probably survived as a result of several factors: the generally cold and dry climate, few forest fires and relatively few humans. Today, however, the nature conservancy authorities are considering putting a fence around the record breaking tree to protect it from trophy hunters. Report this comment THE STATMENT BY THE DIRECTOR OF GREENPEACH THAT HUMANS HAVE NO PORT IN GLOBAL WARMING MAKES AL GORES BOOK LOOK DUMMER THAN HAS BEEN DETERMINED. Report this comment I find it amusing how many frogs in the boiling kettle of water are in denial. Over-population of humans and food and water shortages are just normal cycles. Ironic that many of us sound just like those ancient creatures did before their demise. One day some intelligent creatures will arise from the sea or trees and start the whole cycle over again, consuming our fossils fuels for their engines of denial. Report this comment Global warming or climate change, either way, it has the same purpose: The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. Report this comment When I was in high school (many, many years ago) all of out science texts said that we'd run out of oil in twenty years. Now we are faced with more bad science (global warming) and are expected to swollow it. Oh, I know Al Gore is the smartest man on earth but I think he missed it on this one. Report this comment 1) This is a regional finding, not a global finding 2) The temperature in this region was warmer that in the summers than they are now. The problem is the rate of current change is much higher than it has been in the past. Since the current rate is much faster than it has been in the past, we can't predict how life will be effected 5) yes, extra snowfall in winters can be an indication of global warming. hint: warm temperatures, and jetsteams play a very big factor. Report this comment Joel shore says there is no such thing as the claims in the seventies of cooling. I remember being in primary school and being taught that we were going into another ice age. I hope all those Gore supporters are aware of the high court ruling on Al's film. For anyone interested check out the sea level calculator on junk science. Report this comment A Compilation of the Arguments that Irrefutably Prove that Climate Change is driven by Solar Activity and not by CO2 Emission Dr. Program Manager "Lampyridae, MRMF" (see Internet) Conveyor of a super-Einsteinian theory of gravitation that explains, among many other post-Einstein-effects, the Sun-Earth-Connection and the true cause of the global climate changes. I Climatological facts As the glaciological and tree ring evidence shows, climate change is a natural phenomenon that has occurred many times in the past, both with the magnitude as well as with the time rate of temperature change that have occurred in the recent decades. The following facts prove that the recent global warming is not man-made but is a natural phenomenon. In two-thirds of these 10 000 years, the mean temperature was even higher than today. Shortly before the last ice age the temperature in Greenland even increased by 15 degrees C in only 20 years. This is shown by the fact that these two physical quantities have displayed an entirely different temporal behaviour in the past 150 years. Whereas the mean global temperature varied in a quasi-periodic manner, with a mean period of 70 years, the CO2 concentration has been increasing exponentially since the 1950's. The sea level has been rising and the glaciers have been shortening practically linearly from 1850 onwards. Neither time trace showed any reaction to the sudden increase of hydrocarbon burning from the 1950's onwards. The most important climate driver (besides solar luminosity) comes from the interplay of solar activity, interplanetary magnetic field strength, cosmic radiation intensity, and cloud cover of the Earth atmosphere. As is shown in Section II, this phenomenon is generated by the action of galactic vacuum density waves on the core of the Sun. htm), which has been ignored by the mainstream climatologists, leaves little room for a human influence on climate. This close correlation results from the action of galactic vacuum density waves on the Sun and on the Earth (see Section II). Physical explanation for the strong correlation between fluctuations of the rotational velocity and changes of the mean surface temperature of the Earth Despite its great successes, the gravitational theory of the great physicist Albert Einstein, General Relativity, (which is of a purely geometric nature and is totally incompatible with the highly successful quantum theory) must be discarded because this theory is completely irreconcilable with the extremely large energy density of the vacuum that has been accurately Posted by Dr. but they will serve as backstory and guidepoints to help understand how and why we self destructed. Without this dramatic denial complete with colourful adjectives, name calling, character assination,vernacular, all caps and exclamation points, you are confronted with your complicity. And it takes vision and courage to acknowledge your role in the converging crises that will change everything. By the time some of you realize that the materialism and consumerism that has blinded, seduced and preoccupied you isn't what's actually important and by the time you realize that all the things and entities you thought would save you, there will be no turning back from the cliff. There are those of a mind who observe, report, and respond with a self corrected course. And then there ...