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| 11/23 |
| 2008/7/28-8/2 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50706 Activity:nil |
7/28 Thugs on Wheels strike again
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372364_criticalmass27.html
\_ You know, I'm so surprised that we haven't had a nutcase
with CCW PERMIT carrying guns and wielding a SUV who ended
up shooting a bunch of bicyclists yeah baby BANG BANG BANG
\_ So let's see. Critical mass goes by. Dude in car doesn't want
to wait 10 minutes for them to pass, instead pulls out in front
of them. People get pissed and shout at him, so he drives his car
through the crowd and hits some people. Then things get ugly.
Frankly he got off easy.
\_ I have no idea where you invented this summary from:
"According to what some witnesses told police, an altercation with
the driver ensued and some of those on bikes began sitting on his
car and hitting the vehicle, Jamieson said.
"According to what some witnesses told police, an altercation
with the driver ensued and some of those on bikes began sitting
on his car and hitting the vehicle, Jamieson said.
"The driver tried to back up, he said, and struck a bike.
"That's when bicyclists really began attacking the vehicle.
I think the cyclists got off easy. That's the problem with mobs.
\_ Key word: some. Let's guess which some those were. Dude
should never have ridden his car through the crowd. You
know that, he knows that. You think people just decided
to attack him for fun? How come all those 1000s of other
cars along the route didn't get attacked?
\_ I think the Thugs intentionally intimidate drivers, and are
thrilled to escalate minor confrontations (jumping on the
car, etc.) which induce panic in the driver, who in fear
tries to get away from the mob. See, that's the problem
with mobs.
\_ So because the guy was irrationally fearful, it is okay
that he committed assualt with a deadly weapon? Good
thing he didn't kill anyone. Would it be okay if I
started shooting at car drivers that violate my right of
way as a pedestrian? That is certainly a more rational
fear than this guys. What was the chance that someone
on a bicycle could actually hurt him if he stayed in
his car with windows rolled up?
\_ Smashing the windshield? I'd say he is 100%
justified in fleeing from a mob, possibly injuring
members of the mob in the process.
\_ They smashed his windshield after he started
running people over, at least according to the
press account of the incident. I am not saying
that there was a good reason to smash his wind
shield, but he had no excuse for deliberately
running people over, just because they were
blocking his way and sitting on his car and
"hitting the vehicle" which means smacking it
with their palms.
\_ Nope, sorry you've got it wrong.
"The driver tried to back up, he said, and
struck a bike."
"That's when bicyclists really began attacking
the vehicle."
It was after the attack that the car drove
away through the crowd.
\_ Anyone with half a brain would know,
don't try to muscle your car through
a crowd of bikes. What did he expect?
The sea of bikes to part before his
mighty car penis? He tried to drive
through them. He fucking hit someone.
\_ Sorry, once the mob attacks, the victim
should use force (even deadly force) to
escape from the mob. That's the problem
with mobs.
\_ Any bicyclist with a quarter of a brain
should know not to try to block the way
of a moving car. Those that place more
importance on asserting their "right" to
annoy drivers than on protecting their
own safety fall victim to natural
selection.
\_ "Tried to back up" means that he deliberately
backed into someone blocking his way. This
should be assault, but since he was in a car
he will get away with it.
\_ I generally agree with you, but this
is orthogonal to whether you have
a right to run over someone who
blocking your way.
\_ "Tried to back up" means that he
deliberately backed into someone blocking
his way. This should be assault, but since
he was in a car he will get away with it.
\_ No, it means he deliberately tried to
back up, and there was someone in the
way. That doesn't mean he was
deliberately trying to hit someone.
\_ Let's change the bikes to say, a
regular demonstration. Demonstrators
are marching, blocking a car. Dude
tries to pull out of his space anyway
and hits a demostrator. People start
crowding his car and screaming at him
for hitting someone when it was
obvious he should have just waited
rather than just pulling out when the
road was blocked. Dude responds by
driving his car through the crowd,
hitting several people. You don't
think he would be at fault there
either?
\_ And attacking the vehicle, smashing
the windshield? Yes, no fault in
trying to get away.
\_ Since neither of us was there and
there are no videos, we can only
speculate, but if you are surrounded
by people peacefully blocking your
way, backing up without making sure
your way is clear is at the very
least, very reckless. |
| 11/23 |
|
| seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372364_criticalmass27.html HECTOR CASTRO P-I REPORTER Seattle police arrested two men and are searching for a third after participants in a bicycle protest on Capitol Hill smashed a car and attacked its driver Friday night. But one man injured in that turmoil said at least one other person should be arrested the driver. "He just accelerated forward and ran us over," said Tom Braun, whose bicycle was smashed during the altercation. Police spokesman Mark Jamieson said the driver is not considered an aggressor, but a victim, in the chaos that broke out during the Critical Mass protest. While acknowledging that the driver did strike some of the bicyclists, Jamieson said it appeared the man did so trying to get away from the large crowd. "It's completely understandable, if you've got a mob surrounding you, trying to get to you," he said. The disturbance happened at around 7:15 pm near East Aloha Street and 14th Avenue East. The driver was in a white Subaru with a female companion and was trying to pull out of a parking space. At that moment a large group of riders, described to police as anywhere from 100 to 300 bicyclists, were participating in a Critical Mass demonstration. For years, bicyclists involved with Critical Mass have gathered monthly to ride through Seattle streets in a show of support for the rights of bicyclists. For the most part, Seattle police have taken a hands-off approach to the riders, although the protest tactics include filling the streets with bikes, putting a stop to vehicular traffic. The riders were employing this tactic just as the motorist and his companion were about to drive off, Jamieson said. "The bicyclists were using both sides of the roadway, effectively blocking traffic," he said. According to what some witnesses told police, an altercation with the driver ensued and some of those on bikes began sitting on his car and hitting the vehicle, Jamieson said. The driver tried to back up, he said, and struck a bike. That's when bicyclists really began attacking the vehicle. "They broke his windshield and they broke the rear window and did some additional body damage," Jamieson said. The driver told officers he feared for his safety and that of his girlfriend, so he sped off, hitting other bikes and riders. Braun was one of the bicyclists who were struck, but he disputed the official version of events, saying that the only thing happening before the driver sped off was a lot of shouting. A frequent bicycle commuter participating in the protest ride for the first time in years, Braun said he rode up just as voices were being raised. He was still trying to figure out what the trouble was, he said, when the driver drove through the group, hitting him on his bike. He was dragged along briefly, got loose, and then the car ran over his leg. Braun said he saw another man sprawled on the hood of the car as it drove off. Less than a block away, the driver stopped and was surrounded by bicyclists. The driver got out of the vehicle, Jamieson said, and when he did so, someone behind him hit him with an object, cutting the man's head. When officers arrived, witnesses pointed out two men as allegedly taking part in the vandalism to the car. The men, ages 23 and 24, were both arrested and booked into the King County Jail for investigation of malicious mischief. After most of the people had left, a witness identified another man who had departed as the one who had struck the driver in the back of the head. He was not arrested, but officers know who he is, Jamieson said. The driver involved in the incident was taken to a local hospital for medical treatment of his injuries, which included bruising and the cut to his head, then released, Jamieson said. Braun said he went to the hospital after his wife arrived to pick him up from the scene. There were no broken bones, but Braun said doctors found blood in his urine and he will need to return for a follow-up visit. With his body aching and his bicycle ruined, Braun said he won't be commuting by bike come Monday. |