Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 50363
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2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

2008/6/24-27 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50363 Activity:high
6/24    It amazes me how stupid people are about economics.  Don't people
        realize that "speculators" make things better?
        \_ Because no politician has the guts to say: "Suck it up and move on,
           it's demand and supply and the government can't and shouldn't do
           anything about gas prices". Because no politician has the guts to
           say "Look, how about YOU consume less gas, then you will spend less
           anything about gas prices". Because no politician has the guts to say
           "Look, how about YOU consume less gas, then you will spend less
           money on it? How about living closer to work, avoiding distant
           suburbs, using carpools or public transport, or trading in your
           "barn-on-wheels" grocery-getters and 300HP single occupant commuter
           appliances for something more efficient?" No politician wants to say
           that and no consumer seems to want to hear this either. There are no
           enough drama or opportunities to pander to voters in the traditional
           "demand and supply" explanation for the fuel price situation.
            suburbs, using carpools or public transport,
            or trading in your "barn-on-wheels" grocery-getters and 300HP
            single occupant commuter appliances for something more efficient?"
            No politician wants to say that and no consumer
            seems to want to hear this either. There are
            no enough drama or opportunities to pander to voters in the
            traditional "demand and supply" explanation for the fuel price
            situation.
           \_ Sorry but this is flat out stupid.  People live far from their
              jobs because the price of a house or rental is so much lower
              even taking into account the huge increase in gas prices we've
              seen since 2006.  I want to live in your fantasy world where we
              can all simply choose to live near work.  Do you really truly
              think people drive 2+ hours a day because they like driving?
              All these people could swap out their Hummers for shitboxes
              cutting their gas costs by 50% or whatever and they'll still get
              creamed.  The reality is there aren't that many large vehicles
              doing long commutes.  I drive a V8 guzzler.  I drive it fast.
              Here's the math:  I use ~1000 gallons per year getting about 20
              mpg.  At $5/gallon for premium that's $5k/year.  I can switch to
              a crap car, get 30 mph and pay 20 cents less per gallon.  That's
              a savings of 333 gallons and $1800/year.  Whoop-ti-do.  I've
              saved the earth.  And it's 400HP, thanks.  There is plenty
              enough oil out there, insufficient refinery capacity and a ton
              of stupid laws that create different magical blends of gas that
              distort the market.  I'm sure the oil companies are doing a-OK
              on my wallet, too.  Drill, build some refineries, consolidate
              blend requirements across similar regions, and prices will drop.
              Econ 1.  The big question is: do the people in control of these
              things *want* the price to drop?  Hello Congress and State law
              makers?
              \_ I _know_ childrenless couples who opt to drive one hour each
                 way  to their work just so that they could afford to
                 live in a ginormous house even though they could live for the
                 same amount of money in a perfectly nice two bedroom house
                 or an apartment in a nice safe neghborhood, 5 to 10 minute
                 drive distance from their work for the same money.
                 (no that's not in Bay Area). So yes, my claim was entirely
                 stupid. Next, refinery situation is not nice, but you won't
                 lower the gas prices by much simply by simplifying the blends
                 and regulations. About 75% of the price of gas you pay
                 at the pump simply covers the price of oil that was used
                 to make this gas. The rest is refining and distribution.
                 Streamlinging refinery regulations would knock off a few cents
                 at best. If every person who drives a gas guzler actually
                 did something to lower gas use by 30% like you propose above,
                 the prices wouldn't be so "bad" right now. The proven oil
                 reserves in the parts of the US where you can't drill will
                 increase the supply of US made oil only marginally, and we
                 still will end up importing most of our oil from abroad.
                 I am not saying we shouldn't drill more, but McCain's and GWB
                 push to open more areas for drilling will not fix any problems
                 in the short term, and hardly make a big difference in the
                 long term.
              \_ Do you read the viking hall of manliness website too?
                 \_ Since you know nothing and have nothing intelligent to
                    say you have to resort to a cheap personal attack.  Good
                    call.  That worked for me in 5th grade, too.
                 \_ 0.o That site breaks my brain.
                    \_ http://arthurshall.com
              \_ People live far from their jobs because they are selfish
                 jerks who don't care how much suffering they cause other people
                 just so long as they get their 5 bedroom 3 bath home on half
                 an acre full of junk from Target. Homes are 50% larger then
                 they were in the 50's and families are smaller now. A smaller
                 car is not really going to fix the fundamental problem.
                 jerks who don't care how much suffering they cause other
                 people just so long as they get their 5 bedroom 3 bath home
                 on half an acre full of junk from Target. Homes are 50%
                 larger th[a]n they were in the 50's and families are smaller
                 larger then they were in the 50's and families are smaller
                 now. A smaller car is not really going to fix the fundamental
                 problem.
        \- gee, i guess even economists who debate things like hot money
           and the effects of high capital mobility are "stupid about
           economics". liquidity is generally good. but speculation is
           more complicated and might be "net" good, but not necess
           "all good". also not everybody is in the position of the
           dollar and a very large domestic economy.
           YMWTGF(GSOROS, sterilization).
           how about signing your name when calling other people stupid? --psb
           \_ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121426475050198395.html
           \_ I do when I specify names.  The nearly universal complaints about
              commodity speculators is silly.
                        \- "i do when i specify names" is kinda silly.
                           second, in your OP you didnt resrict your comment
                           to commodity speculation. the FX futures mkt and
                           the mkt for financial hedges and speculation is
                           much bigger than the commodities mkt, so that would
                           hardly be a default assumption. --psb
              \_ It is always easier to blame someone else for your troubles
                 than accept your own part in the problem.
        \_ Well informed speculators make things better.  Get rich quick idiots
           can throw prices totally out of whack, which is bad for necessities
           like food and shelter.
           \_ Exactly.  There is a mass of people who just follow whatever the
              trend is.  They hear dot com they balloon that up, housing ditto,
              now energy and commodities.  They are idiots because the majority
              of them in each case don't realize the large paper gains, and
              meanwhile they cause short term problems and volatility.
              \_ It is not clear to me what kind of problems dot com
                 speculators caused, other than a temporary misallocation of
                 capital. It is not like driving up the cost of WebVan stock
                 caused a shortage of anything.
                 \- just out of curiosity, what do you consider the diff
                    between a <DEAD>dot.com<DEAD> "speculator" and a <DEAD>dot.com<DEAD> "investor"
                    to be ... i mean it is meaningful to talk about a
                    hedger vs a speculator in a commodity or in the FX mkt,
                    but it's not totally clear how to differentiate in the
                    case of a stock ... or do you mean some vague either
                    focusing on time horizon or "second order" investments
                    [calls/puts, shorts, butterflies etc].
2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

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2008/7/15-23 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50573 Activity:nil
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	...
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MORE REVIEW & OUTLOOK Political Speculators June 24, 2008; Page A18 Every dogma has its day, and so it is with the posturing that blames the run-up in oil prices on "speculators." The new political consensus is that further "common-sense regulation" of the energy futures market is necessary. Let's grant that the sentiment is common, but the sense - like the evidence - is nonexistent. On Sunday, Barack Obama rolled out a proposal that will supposedly thwart market manipulation by "a few energy lobbyists and speculators." John McCain chimed in that Mr Obama was merely following his lead; last week, the Republican denounced "some people on Wall Street" for "gaming the system." If there's a Congressman who isn't calling for his own crackdown, he's gone into witness protection. And sure enough, even this week's impromptu oil summit in Jeddah blamed "speculators" for high prices. The futures market may be a convenient scapegoat, but it's simply a price discovery mechanism. Major energy consumers - refiners, airlines - buy and sell these contracts to lock in goods at a future price, as a hedge against volatility. Essentially, they're guesses about coming oil supply and demand, as well as the rate of inflation. The political theory is that such futures trading is creating a bubble in the spot market (ie, oil purchased for immediate delivery) beyond oil fundamentals. But there's no inherent reason to "bet" that commodities will go up rather than down. Bet wrong - place all your chips on red, say - and you lose. If a company purchases the future right to buy oil at $140 a barrel and it instead sells for $130, the option is worthless. Besides, somebody has to take the other side of any futures contract: Some are trying to predict where the price will go in the future, while the other side is attempting to sell its future price risk. But speculators - normally known as "traders" - are really managing the exposure risks of American businesses to higher oil prices. Traders not affiliated with major producers or consumers provide liquidity to the market. Without the second group, futures markets would be determined exclusively by commercial participants. One omnipresent talking point is that the so-called "Enron loophole" must be closed. A provision inserted in legislation in 2000 exempted certain oil contract exchanges where transactions were made via computer and telephone, rather than on a trading floor, from regulations that govern other exchange-traded commodities. But Congress ended that practice as part of its most recent farm bill, and there's no evidence that "over the counter" trading has caused the increase in oil prices. The political enthusiasm seems to arise solely from the word "Enron." Mr Obama and his fellow Democrats are also exercised because the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) doesn't directly oversee US subsidiaries of foreign exchanges. For instance, the global futures market of London-based Intercontinental Exchange is regulated by the UK Financial Services Authority. But the FSA has extensive information-sharing agreements with the CFTC. It also has similar standards for the daily position and trade monitoring that ensures market integrity and transparency. In this global business, some of the more stringent antispeculation proposals would merely divert futures trading to Dubai or less regulated exchanges. Another supposed problem is the rise of commodity index funds, a newer market that is estimated at anywhere from $140 billion to $250 billion. Michael Masters, a Virgin Islands-based fund manager who has the ear of Democrats, blames pension funds and university endowments. Essentially, these investors buy futures and roll them from month to month as they come due, allowing a constant investment without holding oil or natural gas stocks. Yet these financial instruments are only new in the sense that they apply traditional stock-market indexing to commodities. It's hard to see how this is irresponsible, and if anything it's the reverse: Indexing is favored by investors who think it's imprudent to gamble on short-term price swings. Loose monetary policy has caused price jumps across nearly all commodities, including surges in grains and precious and base metals. The Fed's rate-cut bender is the most important reason oil is up so sharply since last August. The other major factor is supply and demand, as prosaic as that might seem amid today's political agitation. Energy consumption is surging in China and India, and global supply is not growing fast enough to keep up. Congress could do something useful if it opened up America's vast natural resources, which are blocked by environmentalist romanticism. But then, it's so much easier to shoot the price messengers.