Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 50284
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2018/10/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/18   

2008/6/17-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:50284 Activity:high
6/17    Obama the Marxist
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3qxoqt [wsj.com]
        "Globalization and technology and automation all weaken the position of
        workers," he said, and a strong government hand is needed to assure
        that wealth is distributed more equitably.
        \_ Highly unequal wealth is generally considered bad.  In the past
           the government of the united states WAS concerned when regular wages
           stayed stagnant or dropped while the upper 1% gained a higher
           percentage of the pie.  That's not Marxism, no matter what your
           Libritarian echo chamber says.
           \_ Grive me Librity or grive me Dreath!
        \_ Thank god, I can't wait to see tax rates go to pre-Reagan
           era. Fuck globalization and trickle down to China economy,
           it was a dumb idea in the beginning, and a complete
           disaster in practice.
           \_ Sorry but you're either incredibly stupid or ignorant if you
              want to go back to the Carter era economy.  Compared to then,
              this is a golden time for the economy for rich, middle class,
              and poor.  Or wait, there's a third option I forgot: you're
              a troll which is why you keep mentioning Reagan; you're looking
              to draw someone out on how great Reagan was or something.
              \_ Real average hourly wages peaked in the early 70s.
              \_ Real average hourly wages peaked in the late 70s.
                 \_ You gonna support the shit you just made up from
                    your ass, liberal?
                    \_ What shit?  That in the Carter era we had double digit
                       inflation, we voted in prop 13 to save people from
                       outrageous property taxes and that the country was
                       headed downhill in a huge way as stated by Carter
                       himself in a major speech?  If you don't know those
                       things then as I said you're either ignorant, a troll,
                       or just plain dumb.  I'm pretty sure you're a troll.
                    \_ Facts are such bitter things when you are a Conservative:
                    \_ Facts are such bitter things when you are a
                       Conservative:
                       link:preview.tinyurl.com/3w79k5
                       From article at:
                       http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm
                       \_ "Public programs that enrich..." Looks like a
                          socialist advocacy group. Try the Cato Institute
                          web site if you want to convince me.    -pp
                          \_ Yes, the BLS is such a biased org. So you only
                             accept facts authorized by the Authorized
                             accept facts approved by the Authorized
                             Conservative Statistical Institute? How Stalinist
                             of you. An overwhelming body of evidence points to
                             three decades of stagnate wages for the middle
                             three decades of stagnant wages for the middle
                             class. Amazing that you have somehow missed it.
                          \_ Cato Institute > Heritage Foundation, but not by
                             much.
           \_ So, what, you are against technology and automation?
              Let's all go back to stone age tech. Let's redistribute all
              resources equally to everyone! Actually no, fuck that.
              Poor people should have fewer kids.
              \_ You're entitled to your extreme thought processes and
                 belief as do I.                        -fuck Reagan
                 \_ You're entitled to your extremely bad grammar.
                    \_ I'm entitled to have 100 kids because I'm winning
                       the genetic pool race. PS my kids have US
                       citizenship, nah nah nah nah nah         -fuck Reagan
              \_ Believe it or not the world isn't binary.  Marxism is one
                 extreme, yes.  However that doesn't mean, say, Pell
                 grants are Marxist.  But Pell grants do have a good track
                 record of increasing social mobility and in doing so
                 decreasing the inqequality of wealth.  A large, desperately
                 poor, increasingly hopeless segment of the population is
                 something any government wants to avoid if it wants to
                 prosper.
                 \_ I don't want the government to prosper.  I want the
                    people and the country as a whole to prosper.  Providing
                    some education assistance (or a more reasonably priced
                    educational price at each institution would really be
                    more helpful) is helpful.  Raising taxes on everyone
                    and flushing more money down the drain is not helpful
                    to anyone unless you're one of those government employees
                    sucking the life out of the rest of us who earn our living
                    the traditional way: working.
                    \_ duhhh what? hmmm your dumb
                       \_ thank you for adding zero content.
                    \_ Raising taxes on everyone is not good. Raising taxes
                       on the wealthiest as the income gap continues to
                       grow makes a lot of sense. Hint: no one earns $1bn
                       strictly through "working."
                       \_ No.  The folks making tens and hundreds of millions
                          are mostly hedge fund manger and other NYC financial
                          types who are taxed at the cap gains rate instead of
                          the income rate where they belong.  That is the only
                          place you need to change the tax code if you want a
                          fairer tax on the truly rich.  But slamming people
                          who make $100k in this area with a higher tax rate
                          because they are 'rich' is just stupid and harmful
                          to the economy.  Raising taxes across the board is
                          not going to cause economic prosperity.
                          \_ Agreed. Making income>$1m level pay their fair
                             share, though, might. $100k is not filthy rich
                             anymore. --pp
                          \_ Obama wants to raise taxes on people who make
                             over $250k, not $100k. If he means family
                             income, I am screwed, but if he means personal
                             income, I am still under that.
                             \_ Screwed?  Just how exactly are you "screwed"
                                if you pay more tax on your $250k?
                                \_ The dead hand of The State will force me to
                                   quit being productive, drink cheap wine and
                                   die of alcoholism.
                     \_ I agree, my grandfather worked hard so his descendants
                        could have the best of everything. Why should I let the
                        mean old government, at the point of a gun, take away
                        everything he sacrificed for, just so some truck
                        driver's son can get some education he will just throw
                        away anyway.
                        away anyway. -truck driver's son
        \_ Hey, Obama wants to eliminate capital gains taxes on start-ups!
           Now that's a Marxism I can get behind.
           \_ What is his definition of "start-ups"?
2018/10/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/18   

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2009/9/25-10/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:53402 Activity:nil
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preview.tinyurl.com/3qxoqt -> online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121366164848479237.html
MORE PAGE ONE Obama Plans Spending Boost, Possible Cut in Business Tax By BOB DAVIS and AMY CHOZICK June 17, 2008; Barack Obama shed new light on his economic plans for the country, saying he would rely on a heavy dose of government spending to spur growth, use the tax code to narrow the widening gap between winners and losers in the US economy, and possibly back a reduction in corporate tax rates. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, the Illinois Democrat said that he was trying to put together tax and spending policies that dealt with two challenges. One is the competition from rapidly growing developing countries, like India and China. The other: the US becoming what he called a "winner-take-all" economy, where the gains from economic growth skew heavily toward the wealthy. Obama cited new economic forces to explain what appears like a return to an older-style big-government Democratic platform skeptical of market forces. "Globalization and technology and automation all weaken the position of workers," he said, and a strong government hand is needed to assure that wealth is distributed more equitably. He spoke aboard his campaign bus, where a big-screen TV was tuned to the final holes of the US Open golf tournament. Obama's nod to lowering corporate taxes comes as Republicans have been attacking him for proposals that would raise the cost of doing business, such as his pledge to raise the tax rate on capital gains, and his vow to increase the top income-tax rates, which are often used by small, unincorporated enterprises. He didn't say how deeply he would cut the rate, but said it could be trimmed in return for reducing corporate tax breaks, simplifying the tax system. With existing loopholes, he said, "How much you pay in taxes as a corporation a lot of times is going to depend on how good your lobbyist is." With "a level playing field," he said, the rates could be reduced. McCain has argued that tax cuts -- particularly on business -- spur growth, Sen. would actually boost the economic growth and productivity," he said. Douglas Holtz-Eakin, chief economic aide to Republican candidate Sen. John McCain, dismissed the Obama strategy as "classic industrial policy which shows a lack of faith in private markets." He was skeptical of any potential Obama corporate-tax cut, noting a lack of details. "It's like being for kittens, puppies and sunshine," he said. Clinton Deficit Hawks The overall Obama economic approach echoes the 1992 presidential platform of Bill Clinton, who also launched his bid for the White House seeking a big expansion in infrastructure spending. But those plans were quickly shelved once he reached the White House. Congress rejected a proposal to steeply increase energy taxes, which could have been used to pay for the spending. 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www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm
Piketty and Saez) Between 1979 and 2005, the top five percent of American families saw their real incomes increase 81 percent. Over the same period, the lowest-income fifth saw their real incomes decline 1 percent. EPI Snapshot, March 28, 2007) Unprecedented levels of capital income are fueling inequality in the current business cycle. In the third quarter of 2006, the share of corporate income going to capital (profits and interest) hit an all-time high of 23 percent, with the remaining 77 percent going to employee compensation. Since capital income disproportionately goes to the top of the income scale, this shift towards capital income increases the income gap. Download high resolution TIF Wealth In 1962, the wealth of the richest one percent of US households was roughly 125 times greater than that of the typical household. Download high resolution TIF Source: 1989-2004: Arthur B Kennickell, "Currents and Undercurrents: Changes in the Distribution of Wealth, 1989-2004," Federal Reserve Board, Jan. Download high resolution TIF Source: White: Brian K Bucks, Arthur B Kennickell, and Kevin B Moore, "Recent Changes in US Family Finances: Evidence from the 2001 and 2004 Survey of Consumer Finances," Federal Reserve Bulletin, vol. Executive Excess 2006, based on Business Week and the Wall Street Journal). Top executives in the US now make about twice the pay of their counterparts in France, Germany and the UK, and about four times that of Japanese and Korean corporate chieftains. Download high resolution TIF Source: United for a Fair Economy, Executive Excess 2005, based on annual CEO pay studies conducted by Business Week (1990-2004) and the Wall Street Journal (2005). Download high resolution TIF Data Banks Topic Type of Data Source Years Link Income Thresholds, averages, and shares by quintiles (fifths of the population) and top 5%. html Income Pre- and after-tax income thresholds, averages, and shares by quintiles (fifths of the population) and for top 10%, 5%, and 1%. Congressional Budget Office: Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates 1979-2004. xls Income Income averages and shares, including and excluding capital gains, for bottom 90% and top 10%, 5%, 1%, 01%, and 001%. Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez analysis of tax return data 1913-2005.
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wsj.com -> online.wsj.com/public/us
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