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| 5/24 |
| 2008/6/13-17 [Recreation/Dating] UID:50255 Activity:high |
6/13 Kern county once again proves that it sucks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage
\_ Or doesn't. Gays can still get their licenses, the county office
simply won't perform the ceremony.
\_ and that doesn't suck?
\_ Not to me.
\_ It's classic bigotry to kill services when the undesirables
start getting access to them. It's really sad how common-
place and acceptable homophobia is. Imagine if this clerk
killed the program because mixed race couples were getting
married. Oh yeah, that's right, you don't think gay couples
count, but you probably try to hide from your bigotry with
libritarian froth.
\_ It's really sad how the CASC redefined an 800-year-old
h word, and how people like you make up words like
\_ Why 800?
Why not
900 or
1200 or
whatever?
\_ The OED
etymology.
word, and how people like you make up words like
"homophobia".
\_ Words change meaning all the time, and the CASC are
not the first people to use "marriage" to include
gays. Legal terms change, too, and "marriage" in
California was historically restricted to same-race
couples, and historically included the notion that
the wife's legal identity was merged into that of
her husband.
gays. (The OED even recognizes this usage now.)
Legal terms change, too, and "marriage" in California
was historically restricted to same-race couples, and
historically included the notion that the wife's
legal identity was merged into that of her husband.
\_ You must really bad sad about the lack
of slavery these days. I mean shit,
that was going on for 1000s of years
until those damn liberals destroyed
a venerable institution.
\_ Yeah, those damn liberals who thought that
women were equal to men, rather than
property of men, destroyed a fine and
venerable institution! (Hint: That's what
"marriage" meant until very recently.) -tom
\_ No, it didn't. -not tom
\_ http://preview.tinyurl.com/3rcb6p
"Woman was not recognized as a person but
was bought in marriage, like chattel."
I know this is not recently. -not tomII
I know this is not recently thoug. -not tomII
\_ I didn't know those liberals redefined the word
"slavery". What's the new meaning of the word
now?
word, and how people like you make up words like
"homophobia".
\_ The point, my dear clueless one, is that
society is not static. For 100s of years
homosexuality was a serious crime. Just
ask Oscar Wilde. Do you bemoan the fact
that we no longer jail gays? Do you
cry yourself to sleep over the fact that
get teary eyed when you remember that
homosexuality is no longer defined as
a mental disorder? Being a reactionary is
a losing bet every time.
\_ You're still avoiding the question.
Marriage is different from something
being a crime. Adultery is no longer a crime.
But we don't redefine adultery as marriage.
\_ Yeah, and I'll bet you cry yourself to sleep over the
end of the Inquisition, too.
\_ So, were most words born fully formed when God
created Adam or something? What words weren't made
up?
\_ Why 800? Why not 900 or 1200 or whatever?
\_ The OED etymology.
\_ 800 years ago marriage was for land owners
only and was more about poltics than anything
else. But don't let that you shed crocodile
tears over the death of language.
\_ I see the whole thing from a more distant sociological perspective.
I'm looking forward to seeing gay vs. straight divorce rates in
about 10 years.
\_ you homosexuals may wish to read JBOSWELL, who is The Standard
on the church/homosexuality/marriage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boswell
if you dont address the role of the french revolution and
the creation of CIVIL MARRAIGE, you are missing a key part
of the story. |
| 5/24 |
|
| news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage WnmfDxJJQBH2ocA/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1213406164/L=c4EIAkWTVvr83xETQI4Vvw9 vRTfow0hS_7MADzrF/B=jY7iINGDJHg-/J=1213398964025712/A=4919452/R=0/* Kern County Clerk Ann Barnett says Friday is the last day the county will perform civil weddings. Starting Tuesday, when the California Supreme Court's order legalizing same-sex marriage takes effect, Kern will issue new gender-neutral marriage licenses as required by law. But couples seeking to get hitched will have to go somewhere else for the ceremony. Barnett says the increased demand for ceremonies would overwhelm her staff and pose office security risks. She made the announcement after learning she could not marry only couples of her choosing. A couple is interviewed by a news crew before a meeting held at the LA Gay & Lesbian Center to provide the latest information on same-sex marriage developments in Los Angeles June 12, 2008. Same-sex marriages will be allowed statewide for the first time on June 17, thanks to a landmark state Supreme Court decision last month. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. |
| preview.tinyurl.com/3rcb6p -> www.myjewishlearning.com/lifecycle/Marriage/AboutMarriage/EvolutionAncient.htm Marriage The Evolution of Marriage: Ancient Marriage in ancient times was a negotiated match involving an agreement on conditions, payment of a bridal price, and the groom's "taking possession" of the bride. In biblical times, people were married in early youth, and marriages were usually contracted within the narrow circle of the clan and the family. It was undesirable to marry a woman from a foreign clan, lest she introduce foreign beliefs and practices. Negotiating a Match As a rule, the fathers arranged the match. The girl was consulted, but the "calling of the damsel and inquiring at her mouth" after the conclusion of all negotiations was merely a formality. In those days a father was more concerned about the marriage of his sons than about the marriage of his daughters. The father received a dowry for his daughter whereas he had to give a dowry to the prospective father-in-law of his son when marrying him off. The price paid by the father of the groom to the father of the bride was called mohar. said to Dinah's father and her brothers: "Let me find favor in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give. Ask me never so much mohar and mattan, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me; "Mattan" was the Hebrew word for the gifts given by the groom to the bride in addition to the mohar. was granted, "brought forth jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment, and gave them to Rebekah; he gave also to her brother and to her mother precious things." The servant thus gave mattan to Rebekah, and mohar to her brother and mother. The Bible does not specify what was to be done with the mohar in case the marriage agreement was broken by either of the two parties. Mohar as Purchase and Gift The mohar was originally the purchase price of the bride, and it is therefore understandable why it was paid by the father of the groom to the father of the bride. In ancient days, marriage was not an agreement between two individuals, but between two families. The newly married man usually did not found a new home for himself, but occupied a nook in his father's house. The family of the groom gained, and the family of the bride lost, a valuable member who helped with all household tasks. It was reasonable, therefore, that the father of the groom should pay the father of the bride the equivalent of her value as a useful member of the family. Yet in the course of time the mohar lost its original meaning as a purchase price paid to the father for his daughter and assumed the significance of a gift to the near relatives of the bride. As far back as in early biblical times, it was customary for a good father to give the whole of the mohar or at least a large part of it to his daughter. A father who appropriated the whole mohar for himself was considered unkind and harsh. The portion of the mohar which the bride received from her father, and the mattan, which the groom presented to her, were not the only possessions she brought to matrimony. A rich father sometimes gave his daughter a field or other landed property as well as female slaves. Betrothal Until late in the Middle Ages, marriage consisted of two ceremonies which were marked by celebrations at two separate times, with an interval between. At the betrothal the woman was legally married, although she still remained in her father's house. She could not belong to another man unless she was divorced from her betrothed. The wedding meant only that the betrothed woman, accompanied by a colorful procession, was brought from her father's house to the house of her groom, and the legal tie with him was consummated. This division of marriage into two separate events originated in very ancient times when marriage was a purchase, both in its outward form and in its inner meaning. Woman was not recognized as a person but was bought in marriage, like chattel. Marriage, as with any type of purchase, consisted of two acts. First the price was paid and an agreement reached on the conditions of sale. Sometime later the purchaser took possession of the object. In marriage, the mohar was paid and a detailed agreement reached between the families of the bride and groom. This betrothal was followed by the wedding, when the bride was brought into the home of the groom, who took actual possession of her. In those days the betrothal was the more important of these two events and maintained its importance as long as marriage was actually based upon a purchase. But as women assumed more importance as individuals, and marriage ceased to be a purchase, attaining moral significance, the actual wedding became more important than the betrothal. Babylonian exile, Jewish life evolved and changed in many ways, including the attitude toward women. Over time, women came to be regarded as endowed with personalities just as were men. Even as far back as early biblical times, we find traces of a new moral attitude towards women. For instance, although a man was legally allowed to marry more than one wife, barring kings and princes, very few used this right. As a rule, the ordinary Jew lived in monogamous marriage. However, as history progressed, monogamy has been observed predominantly by Ashkenazic Jews, following the ban on polygamy in about the 10th century by Rabbenu Gershom, Meor Ha-Golah (the Light of the Diaspora). Sephardic communities polygamy has never been outlawed, and several sources relate that Christians in Muslim Spain were scandalized by the not infrequent cases of Jewish polygamy. began with a declaration of marriage by As-Hor to Mibtachiah's father. "I came to thy house for thee to give me thy daughter, Mibtachiah, to wife; she is my wife and I am her husband from this day and forever." Following this declaration of betrothal, all terms of the marriage contract were written in detail. As-Hor paid Machseiah, the father, five shekels, Persian standard, as a mohar for his daughter. Besides, Mibtachiah received a gift of 65 1/2 shekels from As-Hor. From this we gather that the mohar that fathers received for their daughters was then merely a nominal payment, the formality of an older custom. According to the marriage contract, Mibtachiah had equal rights with her husband. She had her own property which she could bequeath as she pleased, and she had the right to pronounce a sentence of divorce against As-Hor, even as he had the right to pronounce it against her. All she had to do was to appear before the court of the community and declare that she had developed an aversion to As-Hor. We do not know to what degree the equality of rights enjoyed by Jewish women of Elephantine was due to Jewish or to Persian-Babylonian law. Deuteronomy specifically states that if a man dislikes his wife, "he writes her a bill of divorcement and gives it in her hand" (24: 3). Modern critics of the Bible have agreed that on the whole, the Deuteronomic law is a product of the century preceding the Babylonian exile. If a written document was employed at that period in dissolving a marriage, we have to assume that it was also employed in contracting a marriage. A Divorce Penalty The mohar institution was entirely transformed during late-biblical and post-biblical times. From a bridal price it finally became a lien to be paid by the husband in case of divorce, or by his heirs in case of his death. The change in the mohar institution was a direct result of changes in the material conditions of life. In the simple conditions of early biblical days, all sons and daughters married young. The situation changes, however, in conditions reflected in the wisdom book of Ben-Sira, written not long before the uprising of the Maccabees. Apparently bachelorship, common among Jews in talmudic times, had its beginnings in pre-Maccabean days. Economic conditions were such that men hesitated to shoulder the responsibility of matrimony. It was not unusual for women to support the men they married. Under these conditions there was no place for the old mohar institution. Fathers no longer expected any material gain from their daughters' marriages. On the contrary, fathers often gave rich dowries to daughters as an inducement to marriageable men. Yet the... |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boswell He was named the A Whitney Griswold Professor of History in 1990, when he was also appointed to a two-year term as chair of the Yale history department. His undergraduate lectures in medieval history were renowned for their organization, erudition, and wit, with the course often making the "top 10" for highest enrollment. The multi-talented Boswell would pen his comments on student papers in perfectly executed medieval calligraphy. Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (1980), which, according to Chauncey et al (1989), "offered a revolutionary interpretation of the Western tradition, arguing that the Roman Catholic Church had not condemned gay people throughout its history, but rather, at least until the twelfth century, had alternately evinced no special concern about homosexuality or actually celebrated love between men." Boswell, despite the fact that the rites explicitly state that the union involved in adelphopoiesis is a "spiritual" and not a "carnal" one, argued that these should be regarded as sexual unions similar to marriage. The Kindness of Strangers: Child Abandonment in Western Europe from Late Antiquity to the Renaissance. This may be the first scholarly study of the widespread practice of abandoning unwanted children and the means by which society tries to care for them. Although some of Boswell's books became best-sellers, he made few concessions to the popular market. His books have many footnotes, most of which are more than references to other works but actually add information and insight to the main text. taxonomies: * All or most humans are polymorphously sexual ... external accidents, such as socio-cultural pressure, legal sanctions, religious beliefs, historical or personal circumstances determine the actual expression of each person's sexual feelings. edit Legacy Although Boswell's earlier works did much to break down the taboo surrounding the serious study of homosexuality in American academia, by the end of his life Boswell was out of step with the main current of scholarly opinion. social constructivist view of human sexuality which emphasised the historical and cultural specificity of sexual identities such as 'heterosexual' and 'homosexual'. specify - while acknowledging his personal courage in bringing the issue of sexuality into the academy - have pointed out the anachronism of speaking of 'gay people' in premodern societies, and have seriously questioned the validity of Boswell's conclusions. "Revolutions, Universals, and Sexual Categories", Hidden from History: Reclaiming the Gay & Lesbian Past, Chauncey et al, eds. New York: Meridian, New American Library, Penguin Books. |