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| 5/27 |
| 2008/5/30-6/2 [Reference/Military] UID:50099 Activity:moderate |
5/30 Mass Shooting Stopped by CCW Permit Holder
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880526010
\_ See, here's the way I see CCW holders--it's like vaccinations. It's
individual protection, plus herd protection. -emarkp
\_ except there is one minor problem. The vaccine is still
not perfected, and the number of people it saves is still
less than the number of people it kills. It addition, there's
a huge possibility of someone going crazy after receiving the
vaccination. There's a better vaccine out there. TASER.
\_ is gun ownership pride a Mormon thing, or an emarkp thing?
\_ Until one of these CCW holders goes berserk and shoots up a
mall or, worse, shoots an innocent bystander when trying to
play hero.
\_ Exactly my point earier. Saved by B <<< Saved by A,
where A = CCW holder saving lives and
B = CCW holder going bezerk
I understand gun holders are passionate about saving
and defending lives but statistics say otherwise.
\_ what statistics? the one's out your ass?
chances are another CCW will blow the shit out of the
very rare berkeker CCW
very rare berserker CCW
\_ http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=ccw
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/research/?page=conctruth&menu=gvr
Now feel free to debunk or defend your 2nd, but
you'll still sound like a major fucking idiot.
\_ brady campaign? that commie group? gimme a break
\_ I can't find the shooting rampage by CCW holder stats
you promised.
\_ I'm going to believe the stats from a rabidly anti-gun
group? So, I guess you're going to believe the Bush
administration on WMDs, right?
Much of this is wrong. The Texas CCW stuff has been
discredited--most arrests of CCW holders were for
non-violent crimes, and only 100/215K felony
convictions of CCW holders occurred (in 2000).
\_ Why are crime rates higher in areas which have banned
guns? (In DC for instance, rates of violence went up
after the handgun ban.)
\_ maybe it's a US only thing. countries with strict
gun laws have almost no gun crimes for some reason
\_ Scotland has recently said that since they
banned handguns 10 years ago, attempted
homicides with guns have *tripled*. Where are
your stats?
\_ they just have higher violent crime. they use
knives and bats.. and rape is easier.. look at
Austrialia.. they used to have guns. now their
have high violent crime
\_ GUNS BAD! PEACE GOOD! HEY HO! HEY HO WE DON'T
NEED NO GUNS NO MO'!
\_ Does it say that the shooter was CCW? I didn't see that
\_ "Investigators say a feud between two local families is behind the
early-morning shooting inside the bar."
http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8378732&nav=menu549_2
Good on armed Samaritan for capping this clown. Mind you, if they
didn't hand out guns along with liquor in Nevada, this might have
just been a knife fight anyway. |
| 5/27 |
|
| news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880526010 Statement from the Winnemucca Police Department: Advertisement On Sunday May 25, 2008 at approximately 2:30 am the Winnemucca Police Department was dispatched to the Players Bar and Grill located at 1062 South Grass Valley Road on the report of numerous shots fired and multiple gunshot victims. A combined law enforcement team consisting of Officers from the Winnemucca Police Department and Deputies from the Humboldt County Sheriffs Office responded to the dispatch call and secured the scene. There were approximately 300 patrons in and around the bar. No shots were fired by law enforcement during the incident. The officers on scene discovered three adult males who had died from obvious gunshot wounds. One of these victims, a 34 year old male, was transported to Humboldt General Hospital via private vehicle. The other victim, a 22 year old female, was transported via Humboldt County Ambulance. Both of these injured parties were treated and admitted to Humboldt General Hospital in stable condition. The initial investigation indicated that there had been two separate shooters during the incident. One of the alleged shooters, Ernesto Fuentes Villagomez, age 30 of Winnemucca, was among the three men who were dead on arrival. The other was a 48 year old Reno man who was initially taken into custody at the scene as a person of interest. The subsequent investigation lead detectives to believe that Villagomez entered the bar and at some point began firing multiple rounds. At least two of these rounds struck and killed the other two decedents, Jose Torres age, 20 and his brother Margarito Torres, age 19 both of Winnemucca. At some point during this shooting spree Villagomez allegedly stopped and according to witnesses reloaded his high capacity handgun and began shooting again. It was at this point that the second shooter, the Reno resident, produced a concealed handgun and proceeded to fire upon Villagomez who succumbed to his wounds. The Reno resident was in possession of a valid Concealed Carry Permit issued through the Washoe County Sheriffs Office. Because of this the Reno man was released from police custody. Although the shooting occurred during the Runnamucca event weekend there is no evidence linking the incident to any rival motorcycle gangs or clubs. Additionally, each of the decedents and victims were all Winnemucca residents. The investigation is currently pursuing a lead that indicates that this event may have been the result of a long standing feud between several families. There have been no further acts of violence reported in relation to this incident. The Winnemucca Police Department utilized the services of the Washoe County Crime Lab to assist with the processing of the crime scene. Additional support in the investigation was provided by the Humboldt County Sheriffs Office, the Department of Public Safety Investigation and Highway Patrol Divisions, and the Humboldt County District Attorneys Office. |
| www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=ccw Special Reports CONCEALED WEAPONS, CONCEALED RISK Do You Feel Safer Sitting Next to Someone Carrying a Gun? Many people say no to that question, and for good reason. Most people who have permits to carry concealed weapons - people who are not law enforcement officers - have limited training and undergo less testing than even a novice police recruit. Yet they are led to believe that, given a dangerous situation, they will use deadly force with the same care and consideration that police officers will. Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal? Yet the National Rifle Association (NRA) at every opportunity uses the fear of crime to promote the need for ordinary citizens to secretly pack a gun. Ironically, the NRA forbids its own members from carrying guns into the NRA's national convention, but they want to force the rest of us to let those people carry guns into our schools, restaurants, parks, sports stadiums, streets, and anywhere else they want. The History The carrying of concealed weapons (CCW) was prohibited or severely limited in most states prior to the mid-1990's. After its stunning losses on the Brady Bill and the assault weapon ban in 1993-94, the NRA needed a win - and turned to its traditional strongholds in state legislatures. By 1995, the NRA made the radical liberalization of CCW laws at the state level its top political priority, arguing that ordinary people carrying hidden weapons would actually reduce the nation's soaring crime rates. The NRA's not-so-hidden agenda: increasing gun ownership in general and increasing the sales of concealable handguns - at a time when gun sales had gone flat - in particular. In the first year of its new campaign, the gun lobby was successful, and many states changed their laws to allow the widespread carrying of hidden handguns. To bolster its campaign to have more citizens carry concealed weapons, the gun lobby often relies on the faulty work of economist John Lott, who attempts to link liberal CCW laws with lower crime rates. However, several eminent criminologists have published peer-reviewed studies debunking this flawed research. In what may be most conclusive refutation of pro-CCW propaganda, in April 1999, Missouri citizens voted against liberalizing that state's CCW laws in the first-ever state referendum on the issue. The NRA spent almost $4 million (nearly five times the amount the opposition spent) to win what it called "the last great gun battle of the 20th century" and lost. Clearly, when asked if more hidden guns on their streets made them feel safer, most people say "No." According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Centers for Disease Control, out of 30,708 Americans who died by gunfire in 1998, only 316 were shot in justifiable homicides by private citizens with firearms. A 1999 study by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence), using FBI crime statistics, demonstrated that liberalizing CCW laws may have an adverse effect on a state's crime rate. Between 1992 and 1998, the violent crime rate in states which kept strict CCW laws fell by an average of 30%. The violent crime rate for the states that had weak CCW laws during this same time saw their violent crime rates drop by only 15%. Nationally, violent crime declined by 25% during that same period. But an August 2000 study by the Violence Policy Center revealed that, from January 1996 through April 2000, the arrest rate for weapon-related offenses among Texas concealed handgun license holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population of Texas. CCW license holders are committing crimes - including murder, rape, assault and burglary - but because the gun lobby makes it difficult if not impossible for the public to determine if a shooter has a CCW license in most states, the full story has not yet been told. Even highly-trained police officers lose control of their handguns; according to the FBI, 5 out of 41 law enforcement officers (12%) killed by gunfire in the line of duty in 1999 were killed by an adversary with the officer's own service weapon. And police officers know that the very sight of a gun can escalate a situation, so that instead of simply losing your wallet, you can lose your life. That's why almost every major law enforcement organization - including the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the International Association of Chiefs of Police - opposes the weakening of CCW laws. Many permit holders have been stripped of their permits for criminal behavior - and even law-abiding people get angry, drunk, careless or confused, make mistakes, and escalate minor arguments into deadly gun-play. They relate solely to allowing individuals to carry their concealed guns almost anywhere in the community. Much of the CCW debate is couched in somewhat obscure language. The gun lobby is pushing for "shall issue" CCW laws, which force law enforcement to issue a CCW license to anyone who meets that state's requirements. In many states, these requirements are minimal and do not go much beyond the federal Brady Law requirements for purchasing firearms - meaning that some people get CCW permits despite criminal convictions for violent or drug-related misdemeanors or domestic violence restraining orders. Training requirements are extremely lax in many states and do not even include proof that a licensee knows how to load, fire or store a firearm. And, although some states forbid the carrying of concealed weapons in certain government buildings, some shall-issue states allow concealed weapons in bars, daycare centers, sports stadiums and other public places where firearms should clearly be prohibited. Four states - Alabama, New Hampshire, Oregon and Utah - even permit CCW permit holders to secretly carry guns into school classrooms at will. The National Rifle Association (NRA) is now trying to make the "shall-issue" CCW state laws even worse. The NRA is campaigning to overturn all restrictions on carrying hidden handguns - so they can secretly carry guns into schools, bars, sports stadiums and other public places. NRA wants to repeal all safety training requirements and overturn mental health background check laws. And most cynically, the NRA is pushing new laws that would forbid disclosure of the fact that someone who used a gun illegally had a CCW permit - so no one will ever know when people illegally use their CCW-permitted gun to kill or threaten other people. The Brady Campaign believes there should be strict limits on public carrying of concealed handguns. If CCW permits are going to be issues, law enforcement should have broad discretion to issue or deny CCW permits based on what is best for public safety. In states that provide law enforcement discretion, most police agencies are cautious about letting people carry concealed handguns in public. |
| www.bradycampaign.org/facts/research/?page=conctruth&menu=gvr State Report Cards CONCEALED TRUTH Concealed Weapons Laws and Trends in Violent Crime in the United States Executive Summary For years, the National Rifle Association and other gun lobby groups have devoted enormous resources to convincing state legislatures that loosening the restrictions on the concealed carrying of weapons (CCW) would make their states and their citizens safer. Next legislative session, it is anticipated that several states will consider National Rifle Association backed legislation that would allow virtually anyone to carry a loaded, concealed weapon almost anywhere in the state. The gun lobby has contended for years that more guns make for less crime. That slogan is actually the paraphrased title of a book by Dr. John Lott, formerly of the University of Chicago, which claims that greatly easing restrictions on concealed-carry handguns led to large decreases in crime. Although flaws in his research have been widely documented in scientific literature -- and his findings dismissed by a growing list of prominent researchers -- the gun lobby successfully used it to persuade several state legislatures to loosen CCW restrictions in the mid-90's. This study conducted by The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence) has concluded that Dr. Lott and the gun lobby have got it all wrong: allowing people to carry concealed handguns does not mean less crime. The study's key findings are as follows: * For several years now, the nation's crime rate has fallen - but the drop in crime has not been spread equally throughout the country. As a group, states that chose to fight crime by loosening their concealed weapons laws had a significantly smaller drop in crime than states which looked to other means to attack crime in their communities. Our analysis found that between 1992 and 1998, the robbery rate in strict and no issue states fell 44% while the robbery rate for the states that liberalized carry laws prior to 1992 dropped 24%. An analysis conducted by The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, comparing the latest drop in crime rates among the states, provides compelling evidence that the gun lobby is wrong: allowing more people to carry concealed handguns does not mean less crime. More telling is this continuing trend where crime fell faster in states that have strict carrying concealed weapons (CCW) laws or that do not allow the carrying of concealed weapons at all than in states which have lax CCW laws. This strongly suggests that, contrary to the arguments made by the National Rifle Association and others, states should not make it easier for citizens to carry concealed weapons in order to reduce crime. From 1992 to 1998 (the last six years for which data exists), the violent crime rate in the strict and no-issue states fell 30% while the violent crime rate for the 11 states that had liberal CCW laws (where law enforcement must issue CCW licenses to almost all applicants) during this entire period dropped only 15%. The decline in the crime rate of strict licensing and no-carry states was twice that of states with lax CCW systems, indicating that there are more effective ways to fight crime than to encourage more people to carry guns. New York and California -- the two most populous states and ones with strict CCW licensing laws -- experienced dramatic decreases in violent crime over the six-year period. New York experienced a 43% decline and California experienced a 37% decline, both without putting more concealed handguns on their streets. Additionally, the robbery rate also fell faster in states with strict carry laws. Our analysis found that between 1992 and 1998, the robbery rate in strict and no issue states fell 44% while the robbery rate for the 11 states with liberal CCW laws during this entire period dropped 24%. Again, New York and California -- the two most populous states and ones with strict CCW licensing laws -- experienced dramatic decreases over the six-year period. New York experienced a 55% drop in the robbery rate and California experienced a 50% drop in the robbery rate. While the rate of violent crime for states with strict carry laws fell at relatively the same rate as less restrictive states from 1997 to 1998 (8% and 75% respectively), the robbery rate for these 22 strict states fell 13%, compared to the lax state's 10% (this includes an 11% drop for those states which relaxed their CCW laws after 1992, and a drop of only 7% who have had lax CCW laws since before 1992). "These numbers demonstrate what we've been saying all along," said Sarah Brady, chair of the The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Inc. "We don't need to make it easier for just anyone to carry a gun nor do we need more concealed handguns on our streets to fight crime. The way to fight crime is to punish criminals and to make sure that criminals don't get guns in the first place." The decision to liberalize concealed carry laws by a number of state legislatures was based largely on findings drawn from one study authored by Dr. Lott and Mustard claim that greatly easing restrictions on carrying concealed handguns will lead to a large decrease in crime. When first presented, Lott and Mustard's work was met with skepticism in the research community. Now, a growing body of empirical evidence has completely undermined the credibility of their claims. Perhaps most compelling is the fact that robbery has declined twice as quickly in states with strict licensing or that do not allow concealed carrying at all than in states with lax CCW systems. If carrying concealed weapons reduces crime, it would be expected that the greatest effects would be seen on crimes that most often occur between strangers in public places, such as robbery. However, Lott and Mustard found virtually no beneficial effects from liberalizing the carrying of concealed weapons on robbery. As indicated above, robbery in restrictive CCW states fell twice as fast as in lax CCW states. Furthermore, reanalysis of Lott and Mustard's data by two different teams of researchers revealed that crime overall was just as likely to increase as decrease after states eased their carry laws -- a finding which appears to be borne out by the FBI's crime data. Between 1992 and 1998, over a quarter (27%, 3/11) of the states that were "shall issue" during this entire time period experienced an increase in the violent crime rate, as well as in the robbery rate. This compares to increases in violent crime over the same 6 year time period in just 18% (4/22) of states with strict carry laws. Only 18% (4/22) of states with strict carry laws experienced an increase in robberies. If allowing more people to carry concealed handguns is supposed to be such an effective crime fighting strategy, why did the crime rate go up in so many "shall issue" states -- particularly when compared to states that employed other strategies to fight crime? The Percentage and Number of States with Increases in Crime between 1992 & 1997 Violent Crime Rate Robbery Rate Strict States/No CCW 18% (4/22) 18% (4/22) States with lax CCW laws 27% (3/11) 27% (3/11) Lax or "shall issue" CCW laws require law enforcement to issue CCW licenses to virtually anyone who is not a convicted felon. In these states, local law enforcement has almost no discretion in issuing these licenses and, in many cases, getting a license requires little or no safety training or even a demonstration that the applicant knows how to use a gun. States that give law enforcement discretion in issuing licenses (so-called "may issue" states) or which prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons entirely have chosen other strategies to fight crime, resulting in the greatest decreases in crime over the past six years. For several years now, the National Rifle Association and others have made it a priority to get state legislatures to pass lax CCW laws. They claim that putting more guns on our streets reduces crime, despite the fact that almost every major law enforcement organization in the country opposes lax CCW laws. Next session, several legislatures are expected to cons... |
| www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8378732&nav=menu549_2 Rebecca Bessler Channel 2 News Deputies with the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office are investigating a shooting in Winnemucca early Sunday morning that left three people dead and others injured. The shooting happened at the Player's Bar & Grill on South Grass Valley Road. Investigators say a feud between two local families is behind the early-morning shooting inside the bar. Three men from Winnemucca died from gunshot wounds, and two others are in critical condition at the hospital. Deputies say about 2:25 am, 30-year-old Ernesto Villa Gomez walked into the bar and starting shooting. When Villa Gomez was reloading his semi-automatic gun, a man from Reno took out a gun and shot Villa Gomez. The unidentified man who shot Villa Gomez is not expected to be charged in this incident; Local police, the Sheriff's Office and the Nevada Highway Patrol are preparing for retaliation from one or both of the families, and rumors are already circulating in the small town of Winnemucca. There is a sense of sadness for losing three local men in this violent incident. The Player's Bar & Grill was full of about 300 people, because a local biker event "Runnemucca" is going on this holiday weekend. |