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| 2008/4/15-23 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49756 Activity:kinda low |
4/15 I guess this is Obama is worse than HRC guy's point?
http://www.primetimepolitics.com/primetime/site/page/a_living_lie
\_ That Thomas Sowell is an idiot? I don't think that's news. -tom
\_ ^is an idiot^disagrees with tom
\_ Is he really accusing Obama of being a Marxist and a Fabian
Socialist? This guy has a few screws loose, if he is. If he is
not, what is the point of his last few paragraphs?
\_ Instead of simply saying why he has a few screws loose, why not
explain why you think that's the case?
\_ because it's Thomas Sowell, so it should be self-evident.
\_ I think maybe it's you with the problem. Or is it because
he's a Senior Fellow at Stanford?
\_ No, it's because he's a freakish right-winger who
believes all sorts of insane things, and would never
say anything good about a liberal (unless it was to
insult another liberal). -tom
\_ Tom, everyone right of Stalin is crazy to you. Go
away.
\_ Yeah, only communists disagree with the idea
that the New Deal caused the Great Depression.
Get a clue. -tom
\_ Not the issue. You call anyone who disagrees
with you an idiot or crazy. And you fail to
ever substantiate it. You're the one with the
problem.
\_ I call *you* an idiot. I don't call
everyone who disagrees with me an idiot.
There's a difference, but I'm sure you're
too stupid to figure it out. -tom
\_ When have you *ever* engaged in debate or
discussion with *anyone* and granted the
other person was right and you were
wrong? I've never seen it happen on
the motd.
\_ Nice misdirection; I engage
in debate on the MOTD without
calling the other person an idiot
all the time. Idiot. -tom
\_ Did Sowell say that? I doubt it. He may have
said that some of FDRs policies lengthed the
depression, a stance for which there is fairly
good evidence, and the espousal of which hardly
makes one 'crazy.'
\_ I already did explain why. Do you expect me to explain why it
is obvious that Obama is not a Marxist? This guy is as lame
as the Bushitler crowd.
\_ It looks pretty clear to me that Obama /is/ a Marxist, so
yes I'd appreciate a serious reply.
\_ Then I think it's pretty clear you have no idea
what Marxism is.
\_ Sigh. So much for a serious answer.
\_ If you want to claim the moon is green cheese the
only answer you are going to get is "No, it isn't."
\_ You're the guy who's never read any of his books,
right? -!pp
\_ You are silly, but I will entertain your request:
Marxism: Believes in the Dictatorship of the Proletariat
Obama: Believes in Democracy
\_ No difference between democracy and "dictatorship of
the proletariat". Who are the proles anyway? The
bitter people on Pennsylvania?
\_ You claim that there is no difference between
Democracy and dictatorship. I beg to differ.
Marxism: Believes that The Workers should own the means
of production.
Obama: Believes in a modern regulated Capitalism
\_ Regulated to the point that business works for the
government. Thus, socialism.
\_ Is this Marxism or isn't it?
Marxism: Believes that Workers are naturally alienated in
a Capitalistic society.
Marxism: Believes that Workers are naturally alienated
in a Capitalistic society.
Obama: Believes in The Audacity of Hope
\_ Wrote a book with that title. Really believes that
the workers are naturally alienated and thus are
bitter gun toting christians.
\_ Have you read the book? Do you think that the
15% of rural citizens constitute the entire
body of "Workers?" And even if you take the
bitter quote at face value, it is actually
a statement complaining about the alienation
of a small group of people, not a claim that
this is their natural condition.
Marxism: Elevates Class Consciousness above all other
means of understanding human relationships.
Obama: Believes in an integrated political consciousness
that includes race, class, religion and family
and downplays it as a method to achieve political
change.
\_ O believes he and people who share his views are
superior, the rest are gun toting racist white hicks
in the outback.
\_ Everyone believes that their views are superior,
even you, I bet. Are you still going to maintain
your claim that Obama elevates Class Consciousness
above all other philosophy?
your claim that Obama elevates Class
Consciousness above all other philosophy?
Any other questions?
\_ Your descriptions of Obama's positions are way off
(if not entirely useless--what does 'the audacity of
hope' even mean?). I see him as far closer to Marx
than you do. Fine.
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Audacity_of_Hope
You haven't even bothered to learn the first thing
about Obama, yet you are quite certain that he
is a Marxist. Fine.
\_ This is why idiots like Bush get voted in.
\_ No. Idiots like Bush get voted in because
the other guy was so much worse. Bush was
the unknown lesser evil the first time and
the lesser evil the second. If the (D) had
real candidates running Bush would be a
footnote, not President. Twice. Hint: SF
is not in the political center of the US.
\_ Are you still claiming that Obama *is*
a Marxist, without having the foggiest
clue about what his actual positions are?
Where do you get your information about
what a candidates positions is, a Cracker
Jack box? Do you even know what Marxism
is?
\_ Bush was the lesser evil? Twice? Really.
Interesting argument. So you think
Kerry and Gore both would have made
\_ Bush was the lesser evil? Twice?
Really. Interesting argument. So you
think Kerry and Gore both would have made
a foreign policy decision more disastrous
than Iraq, and a domestic policy
decision more disastrous than tax cutting
and spending the nation into a debt-ridden
hole.
and spending the nation into a debt-
ridden hole.
\_ The Center is moving left, in case you
hadn't noticed. SF looks better everyday. |
| 4/3 |
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| www.primetimepolitics.com/primetime/site/page/a_living_lie Discuss Added: April 15, 2008 An e-mail from a reader said that, while Hillary Clinton tells lies, Barack Obama is himself a lie. That is becoming painfully apparent with each new revelation of how drastically his carefully crafted image this election year contrasts with what he has actually been saying and doing for many years. Senator Obama's election year image is that of a man who can bring the country together, overcoming differences of party or race, as well as solving our international problems by talking with Iran and other countries with which we are at odds, and performing other miscellaneous miracles as needed. There is, of course, not a speck of evidence that Obama has ever transcended party differences in the United States Senate. Voting records analyzed by the National Journal show him to be the farthest left of anyone in the Senate. Nor has he sponsored any significant bipartisan legislation -- nor any other significant legislation, for that matter. Senator Obama is all talk -- glib talk, exciting talk, confident talk, but still just talk. Some of his recent talk in San Francisco has stirred up controversy because it revealed yet another blatant contradiction between Barack Obama's public image and his reality. Speaking privately to supporters in heavily left-liberal San Francisco, Obama let down his hair and described working class people in Pennsylvania as so "bitter" that they "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them." Like so much that Obama has said and done over the years, this is standard stuff on the far left, where guns and religion are regarded as signs of psychological dysfunction -- and where opinions different from those of the left are ascribed to emotions ("bitter" in this case), rather than to arguments that need to be answered. Like so many others on the left, Obama rejects "stereotypes" when they are stereotypes he doesn't like but blithely throws around his own stereotypes about "a typical white person" or "bitter" gun-toting, religious and racist working class people. In politics, the clearer a statement is, the more certain it is to be followed by a "clarification," when people react adversely to what was plainly said. Obama and his supporters were still busy "clarifying" Jeremiah Wright's very plain statements when it suddenly became necessary to "clarify" Senator Obama's own statements in San Francisco. People who have been cheering whistle-blowers for years have suddenly denounced the person who blew the whistle on what Obama said in private that is so contradictory to what he has been saying in public. However inconsistent Obama's words, his behavior has been remarkably consistent over the years. He has sought out and joined with the radical, anti-Western left, whether Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers of the terrorist Weatherman underground or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Rashid Khalidi. Obama is also part of a long tradition on the left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings. Karl Marx said, "The working class is revolutionary or it is nothing." In other words, they mattered only in so far as they were willing to carry out the Marxist agenda. Fabian socialist George Bernard Shaw included the working class among the "detestable" people who "have no right to live." He added: "I should despair if I did not know that they will all die presently, and that there is no need on earth why they should be replaced by people like themselves." Similar statements on the left go back as far as Rousseau in the 18th century and come forward into our own times. It is understandable that young people are so strongly attracted to Obama. Youth is another name for inexperience -- and experience is what is most needed when dealing with skillful and charismatic demagogues. Those of us old enough to have seen the type again and again over the years can no longer find them exciting. |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Audacity_of_Hope In the less than 20 minutes it took to deliver the speech, Obama was catapulted to sudden fame, with many analysts predicting that he might be well-positioned to enter a future presidential race. In 2006, Obama released The Audacity of Hope, a book-length account that expanded upon many of the same themes he originally addressed in the convention speech. In his speech addressing the Democratic National Convention in 2004, Obama said: " In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope? I'm not talking about blind optimism here -- the almost willful ignorance that thinks unemployment will go away if we just don't talk about it, or the health care crisis will solve itself if we just ignore it. It's the hope of slaves sitting around a fire singing freedom songs; |