Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 49552
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2008/3/24-25 [Finance/Banking, Reference/Tax] UID:49552 Activity:high
3/24    Opinion: companies that require tax-payer funded bailouts should pay
        for this privilege in advance as a kind of insurance. -- ilyas
        \_ So you advocate a business tax?  I don't think we need a new
           business tax.  I don't think we need bailouts either.  Let them
           take their lumps and retire with what they've already stolen.
           Ban them all from every working in finance again to prevent
           recycling these criminal idiots and let the markets recover
           without government tampering.  No bailouts.  No silly taxes.
        \_ No need for laws/rules, the free market will take care of it.
           Requiring anything extra will stifle competition and make
           US less competitive to other countries. No.
           \_ It's very simple, if you want free taxpayer money in case of a
              'catastrophe,' you need to pay the taxpayers a premium.  This
              isn't just about the latest financial meltdown, but also
              airlines, farming, etc. -- ilyas
        \_ Seems kind of redundant, given the presence of private insurance.
           So I guess what you're saying is that companies should not be bailed
           out. Which isn't very interesting but I agree.
           \_ I am prepared to admit that bailouts might be necessary in
              some cases, I just want to make the fuckers pay for this.
                -- ilyas
        \_ Yes, this is essentially what the FDIC is all about. It is obvious
           that these IBs need a similar level of regulation. What pisses me
           off is that the BSC shareholders are going to get billions from
           the taxpayers. I was okay with a $2 (fuck you) bailout, because
           I understand the risk to the financial system, but why $10?
           \_ I'm fine with the shadow banking system getting a bailout, so
              long as they're willing to submit to regulation and oversight
              (just like ordinary commercial banks).  If you want to operate
              with impunity, that's fine, but you shouldn't expect the
              goverment to swoop in and save your stupid ass when you mess up.
              \_ The purpose of the bailout wasn't to protect the company,
                 but to build confidence in our financial system and to
                 prevent from market melt-down. Ultimately, the goal is
                 to protect the American dollar, hence everyone wins.
                 \_ It is more prudent to protect the American dollar by
                    regulating dangerous behavior by financial institutions,
                    than it is to let them screw everything up and then
                    bail them out.  -tom
                    \_ I don't think anyone will disagree with you except
                       the it doesn't change the fact that dangerous behavior
                       already happened. It's as helpful as trying to preach
                       safe sex to people who already got a bunch of STDs.
                       \- "first you have at admit you have a problem^W^W^W^W
                          there was a bail out".
                 \_ What if there was no BSC bailout?  Exactly what dire
                    effects for all of us are we trying to prevent?  Dollar
                    devaluation, is that what you're saying?  I think that
                    would be temporary.  The broader macroeconomic policies
                    of the fed. gov't seem more important.  In a larger sense,
                    bailouts undermine the entire market.  The only real
                    accountability executives have is to their shareholders.
                    The only way to force that accountability is to make the
                    prospect of shareholders losing their shirts very real.
                    \_ There are real concerns of a domino effect; a BSC
                       failure would put liquidity pressure on all the other
                       institutions which hold BSC debt, which could lead to
                       more failures.  Complete meltdown of the financial
                       system is not outside the realm of possibility.
                       Still, bailing out BSC sucks.  -tom
                       \_ Yeah I mean, I would think they should let BSC die
                          ignobly, and even let a couple other dominoes fall
                          perhaps. Bail out when it actually does seem
                          necessary; let some smaller fish take over. I'm
                          skeptical of a term like "complete meltdown of the
                          financial system". I'm sure the most irresponsible
                          entities would like to trumpet themselves as being
                          key to the entire "financial system" and therefore
                          must be saved from their own mistakes. Just like
                          any corporate welfare is couched in noble terms.
                          \_ Yes, and this is exactly the problem with the
                             shadow system.  Without any regulatory oversight
                             or standards, who really knows what is lurking
                             behind BSC?  Maybe they really are the key!
                             Or maybe not...
                             I hate to drag out that hoary old quote from
                             Buffet about derivatives being "financial
                             weapons of mass destruction," but in this
                             case it seems warranted.
                    \_ Dire?  Think of all the yachts that won't be bought
                       that year!  My God!  Think of the yacht makers'
                       children!
                       \_ LANDLORD WITH A YACHT!
                     \_ Go read up on the panics the economy used to routinely
                        experience in the late 1800's, with unemployment in
                        the 20%+ range and bank runs and get back to me with
                        any questions.
                        \_ http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html
        \_ The Financial Times agrees with you, as do I. -ausman
           http://www.csua.org/u/l4i
                        \_ Why don't you point us to something? And also say
                           what your point is.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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2013/5/13-7/3 [Finance/Banking] UID:54676 Activity:nil
5/13    Does FDIC ever matter? How likely is it that your deposit of
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        \_ Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Good one.
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2013/3/9-4/16 [Finance/Banking] UID:54621 Activity:nil
3/9     In a 15/30 year loan, the amount of payment stays the same but
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2011/11/27-2012/1/10 [Finance/Banking] UID:54243 Activity:nil
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www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html
Each article or essay is selected on the basis of its long-term relevance for understanding the role gold plays in the individual's portfolio, the overall political economy, or both. Gold and Economic Freedom by Alan Greenspan Editor's note - It may surprise more than a few gold devotees to learn they have an ideological friend in none other than Federal Reserve Board chairman Alan Greenspan. Starting in the 1950s, in fact, Greenspan was a stalwart member of Ayn Rand's intellectual inner circle. A self-designated "objectivist", Rand preached a strongly libertarian view, applying it to politics and economics, as well as to religion and popular culture. Under her influence, Greenspan wrote for the first issue of what was to become the widely-circulated Objectivist Newsletter. When Gerald Ford appointed him to the Council of Economic Advisors, Greenspan invited Rand to his swearing-in ceremony. In 1967, Rand published her non-fiction book, Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal. In it, she included Gold and Economic Freedom, the essay by Alan Greenspan which appears below. Drawing heavily from Murray Rothbard's much longer The Mystery of Banking, Greenspan argues persuasively in favor of a gold standard and against the concept of a central bank. Can this be the same Alan Greenspan who today chairs the most important central bank of them all? RW Bradford writes in Liberty magazine that, as Fed chairman, "Greenspan (once) recommended to a Senate committee that all economic regulations should have fixed lifespans. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D-Md) accused him of 'playing with fire, or indeed throwing gasoline on the fire,' and asked him whether he favored a similar provision in the Fed's authorization. Bradford continues, "The Senator could scarcely believe his ears. usagoldAn almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense-perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire -- that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other. In order to understand the source of their antagonism, it is necessary first to understand the specific role of gold in a free society. Money is the common denominator of all economic transactions. It is that commodity which serves as a medium of exchange, is universally acceptable to all participants in an exchange economy as payment for their goods or services, and can, therefore, be used as a standard of market value and as a store of value, ie, as a means of saving. The existence of such a commodity is a precondition of a division of labor economy. If men did not have some commodity of objective value which was generally acceptable as money, they would have to resort to primitive barter or be forced to live on self-sufficient farms and forgo the inestimable advantages of specialization. If men had no means to store value, ie, to save, neither long-range planning nor exchange would be possible. What medium of exchange will be acceptable to all participants in an economy is not determined arbitrarily. In a primitive society of meager wealth, wheat might be sufficiently durable to serve as a medium, since all exchanges would occur only during and immediately after the harvest, leaving no value-surplus to store. But where store-of-value considerations are important, as they are in richer, more civilized societies, the medium of exchange must be a durable commodity, usually a metal. A metal is generally chosen because it is homogeneous and divisible: every unit is the same as every other and it can be blended or formed in any quantity. Precious jewels, for example, are neither homogeneous nor divisible. More important, the commodity chosen as a medium must be a luxury. Human desires for luxuries are unlimited and, therefore, luxury goods are always in demand and will always be acceptable. Wheat is a luxury in underfed civilizations, but not in a prosperous society. Cigarettes ordinarily would not serve as money, but they did in post-World War II Europe where they were considered a luxury. The term "luxury good" implies scarcity and high unit value. Having a high unit value, such a good is easily portable; for instance, an ounce of gold is worth a half-ton of pig iron. In the early stages of a developing money economy, several media of exchange might be used, since a wide variety of commodities would fulfill the foregoing conditions. However, one of the commodities will gradually displace all others, by being more widely acceptable. Preferences on what to hold as a store of value, will shift to the most widely acceptable commodity, which, in turn, will make it still more acceptable. The shift is progressive until that commodity becomes the sole medium of exchange. The use of a single medium is highly advantageous for the same reasons that a money economy is superior to a barter economy: it makes exchanges possible on an incalculably wider scale. Whether the single medium is gold, silver, seashells, cattle, or tobacco is optional, depending on the context and development of a given economy. In fact, all have been employed, at various times, as media of exchange. Even in the present century, two major commodities, gold and silver, have been used as international media of exchange, with gold becoming the predominant one. Gold, having both artistic and functional uses and being relatively scarce, has significant advantages over all other media of exchange. Since the beginning of World War I, it has been virtually the sole international standard of exchange. If all goods and services were to be paid for in gold, large payments would be difficult to execute and this would tend to limit the extent of a society's divisions of labor and specialization. Thus a logical extension of the creation of a medium of exchange is the development of a banking system and credit instruments (bank notes and deposits) which act as a substitute for, but are convertible into, gold. A free banking system based on gold is able to extend credit and thus to create bank notes (currency) and deposits, according to the production requirements of the economy. Individual owners of gold are induced, by payments of interest, to deposit their gold in a bank (against which they can draw checks). But since it is rarely the case that all depositors want to withdraw all their gold at the same time, the banker need keep only a fraction of his total deposits in gold as reserves. This enables the banker to loan out more than the amount of his gold deposits (which means that he holds claims to gold rather than gold as security of his deposits). But the amount of loans which he can afford to make is not arbitrary: he has to gauge it in relation to his reserves and to the status of his investments. When banks loan money to finance productive and profitable endeavors, the loans are paid off rapidly and bank credit continues to be generally available. But when the business ventures financed by bank credit are less profitable and slow to pay off, bankers soon find that their loans outstanding are excessive relative to their gold reserves, and they begin to curtail new lending, usually by charging higher interest rates. This tends to restrict the financing of new ventures and requires the existing borrowers to improve their profitability before they can obtain credit for further expansion. Thus, under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy's stability and balanced growth. When gold is accepted as the medium of exchange by most or all nations, an unhampered free international gold standard serves to foster a world-wide division of labor and the broadest international trade. Credit, interest rates, and prices tend to follow similar patterns in all countries. For example, if banks in one country extend credit too liberally, interest rates in that country will tend to fall, inducing depositors to shift their gold to higher-interest paying banks in other countries. This will immediately cause a shortage of bank reserves in the "easy money" count...
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The rescue of Bear Stearns marks liberalisation's limit By Martin Wolf Published: March 25 2008 19:06 | Last updated: March 25 2008 19:06 Bromley Remember Friday March 14 2008: it was the day the dream of global free- market capitalism died. For three decades we have moved towards market-driven financial systems. By its decision to rescue Bear Stearns, the Federal Reserve, the institution responsible for monetary policy in the US, chief protagonist of free-market capitalism, declared this era over. It showed in deeds its agreement with the remark by Joseph Ackermann, chief executive of Deutsche Bank, that "I no longer believe in the market's self-healing power".