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| 4/7 |
| 2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49550 Activity:kinda low |
3/24 Wow, you'd think with all that experience, Hillary wouldn't be such a
bad liar (re: visit to Bosnia).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7
\_ The press covered for Hill&Bill for 15+ years. They didn't have
to be good liars. They got busted all through the 90s but mostly
the press ignored it. Now that the press is leaning heavily to
Obama, they are showing the world what the Clintons always were
and cover for Obama instead. All very amusing.
\_ The primaries will never end. I suspect Hillary and Obama will be
gearing up for their 3000th debate right around the Inauguration
of McCain.
\_ ALGOR is going to settle this by becoming the nominee.
\- Must not destroy Robot.
\_ She doesn't actually kiss the little 8 year old Bosnian girl.
She just makes a kissing motion but presses her cheek against
her.
\- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration to lying.
\- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration (ALGOR &&
the Internet) to lying:
On Bosnia, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2k8yxg [wapo]
On Northern Ireland, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2ff9xe ... this time not a comedian,
but a Nobel Prize winner.
http://tinyurl.com/2ff9xe
(this time not a comedian, but a Nobel Prize winner)
This kind of thing is beyond "mere sleaze" like this:
http://tinyurl.com/2sbrjo
I know this is really long [20min], but it is a much more
eloquent and cogent version of "why i [psb] hate hillary clinton"
than i could put together:
http://lessig.org/blog/2008/02/20_minutes_or_so_on_why_i_am_4.html
It's about a month out of date but still very worth listening to,
particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
It's about a month out of date but still very much worth listening
to, particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
in who you vote for, rather than just the policy bundle [which a
lot of ex-BUSHCO supporters have come to realize]. I strongly,
strongly, strongly encourage any fence sitters of good conscience
to watch that [if you have both feet on the Hillary side, I dont
have much to say to you]. --psb
\_ Some girl who wants to ***** my ***** out is for Hillary.
so I'm for Hillary.
\_ Thanks for posting the url though. I wonder if I can find
an Obama girl...
\- one reason the anti-abortion nutjobs and are powerful
beyond their numbers, is they are spending their friday
nights and sat afternoons agitating, while "apathetic"`
younger people are out tring to find people to ***** their
***** out. but supposedly people can combine activism and
socializing in the obama campaign [this is secondhand].
i thought most of the people you'ld have met at a hillary
rally are menopausal women and economic losers? anyway,
after you both go your own ways, be sure to tell her the
only reason you "went through the hillary supporting
motions" was so she'd "go through the motions". be sure
to refer to hillary as "the sanctimonious hypocritical
liar" so she knows which hillary you are talking about.
\_ Uhm, I suspect most people reading the motd have already had
their shot at primary voting. Who are you trying to convince? |
| 4/7 |
|
| www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7 -> www.youtube.com/index?&session=sK1SRwzsLo9FX8uFFY8ijviP8y_zLoOT_koxZX_3zGPDYZtsPEdluDeNx8A9DsRQTpl4PP8jCGKTroyXhAQ3AyMBRWeAhFoo8Nd2P5P0Bij9jlmlSIDsxTwNB7IKnsPWweaTrYomTjDxEIaftZyzBQ3kuIQ-utEJGkP7WasJ2v7G3r2YrnPUdFE5jPfyNNLbN4Hnl6nn-GA= As Queen Elizabeth II becomes the oldest reigning monarch in British history, we take a look at some of her most significant wavin As Queen Elizabeth II becomes the oldest reigning monarch in British history, we take a look at some of her most significant waving moments. Debate is welcome but comments with foul and offensive language will be deleted. No matter what you believe, if you are passionate about it then go "do something!" Text "DJSTRONG 50" to 69937 to get Ashkon's Hot Tubbin' On the Late Night RINGTONE! Text "DJSTRONG 50" to 69937 to get Ashkon's Hot Tubbin' On the Late Night RINGTONE! Rapper Ashkon's debut music video from "The Final Breakthrough" *Album coming to itunes Soon! Headlights - Cherry Tulips Debut single from the new Headlights album Some Racing, Some Stopping. pol Debut single from the new Headlights album Some Racing, Some Stopping. UNICEF's Tap Project On World Water Day, March 22, 2007, hundreds of restaurants in New York City invited customers to donate just $1 for the tap water On World Water Day, March 22, 2007, hundreds of restaurants in New York City invited customers to donate just $1 for the tap water they usually enjoy for free. All the money raised through the Tap Project helps UNICEF save lives by providing safe drinking water to children around the world. Thanks to every restaurant, customer, donor, and organization who contributed to the Tap Project and helped make the first year a success! The Tap Project will be in cities across the country in March 2008. Vancouver Film School and YouTube are currently offering a one-of-a-kind scholarship competition. com/vancouverfilm Vancouver Film School and YouTube are currently offering a one-of-a-kind scholarship competition. Artists, filmmakers and designers from 19 countries are invited to submit videos on the theme "What Matters To You". The YouTube community will vote for the 3 winners, who will receive a full-tuition scholarship to the VFS program of their choice. |
| tinyurl.com/2k8yxg -> blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html Greeting ceremony, Tuzla military airport, Bosnia, March 25, 1996. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." Hillary Clinton has been regaling supporters on the campaign trail with hair-raising tales of a trip she made to Bosnia in March 1996. In her retelling, she was sent to places that her husband, President Clinton, could not go because they were "too dangerous." challenged by one of her traveling companions, the comedian Sinbad, she upped the ante and injected even more drama into the story. In a speech earlier this week, she talked about "landing under sniper fire" and running for safety with "our heads down." There are numerous problems with Clinton's version of events. The Facts (Updated below) As a reporter who visited Bosnia soon after the December 1995 Dayton Peace agreement, I can attest that the physical risks were minimal during this period, particularly at a heavily fortified US Air Force base, such as Tuzla. Contrary to the claims of Hillary Clinton and former Army secretary Togo West, Bosnia was not "too dangerous" a place for President Clinton to visit in early 1996. Had Hillary Clinton's plane come "under sniper fire" in March 1996, we would certainly have heard about it long before now. Numerous reporters, including the Washington Post's John Pomfret, covered her trip. A review of nearly 100 news accounts of her visit shows that not a single newspaper or television station reported any security threat to the First Lady. "As a former AP wire service hack, I can safely say that it would have been in my lead had anything like that happened," said Pomfret. According to Pomfret, the Tuzla airport was "one of the safest places in Bosnia" in March 1996, and "firmly under the control" of the 1st Armored Division. Far from running to an airport building with their heads down, Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling US and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, above, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss. "There is peace now," Emina told Clinton, according to Pomfret's report in the Washington Post the following day, "because Mr Clinton signed it. The footage shows Clinton walking calmly out of the back of the C-17 military transport plane that brought her from Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. Among the US officials on hand to greet Clinton at the airport was Maj Gen. Nash told me that he was unaware of any security threat to Clinton during her eight-hour stay in Tuzla. He said, however, that Clinton had a "busy schedule" and may have got the impression that she was being hurried on her way. According to Sinbad, who provided entertainment on the trip along with the singer Sheryl Crow, the "scariest" part was deciding where to eat. "What kind of president would say 'Hey man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife. Her campaign referred me to Togo West, who was also on the trip and is a staunch Hillary supporter. West could not remember "sniper fire" himself, but said there was no reason to doubt the First Lady's version of events. Clinton made no mention of "sniper fire" in her autobiography "Living History," published in 2003, although she did say there were "reports of snipers" in the hills around the airport. UPDATE Friday 6:45 pm Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below: I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored." "In both cases, we took appropriate security action," said Nash, adding that Clinton's visit was not disrupted. Anybody else with first-hand memories of Clinton's Tuzla trip, please send them along. The Pinocchio Test Clinton's tale of landing at Tuzla airport "under sniper fire" and then running for cover is simply not credible. Photographs and video of the arrival ceremony, combined with contemporaneous news reports, tell a very different story. The real lessons from this campaign are most applicable to resume writers: "stuff the damned thing to the hilt, and no one will care!" None of the three candidates running is worth electing as President. It's time to start over again, while we can, and pick a new set that is actually worth a hoot. These three all have an incredible ability to disguise the truth. Posted by: bong_jamesbong2001 | March 21, 2008 07:53 AM 4 Pinocchios! Bill Richardson doesn't need to puff up his own resume, and his judgment on who will make the best President carries a lot of credibility. Posted by: FirstMouse | March 21, 2008 08:11 AM Not to mention taking your daughter to such a "dangerous" place! I just don't understand why people say things like this, especially when they are so easily verifiable--and you know they will be checked! It's not just Hillary, all sorts of high level people do this all the time, and get caught! I know it's human nature to want to put yourself in the best light, but anyone who wants to be president needs to learn to stop and think before they say something like that, then don't say it! Posted by: | March 21, 2008 08:11 AM Liar, Liar pants on fire. Posted by: Change we can all beleive in | March 21, 2008 08:39 AM They say if you repeat a lie often enough in the minds of the people it becomes true. com/2008/03/21/god-bless-you-heather/ Reminder this was, before she voted against a cluster bomb ban. Posted by: old_europe | March 21, 2008 09:11 AM That definitely earned her four Pinocchios. com/2008/03/21/god-bless-you-heather/ Reminder this was, before she voted against a cluster bomb ban. Posted by: old_europe | March 21, 2008 09:11 AM This doesn't surprise me. How much more info do people need to see how utterly dishonest the woman is. She is not transparent and would iniate change or be a good President. Hillary is digging a deeper and deeper hole that the Democrats will be unable to extricate themselves from in the fall. Posted by: Peggy | March 21, 2008 09:43 AM Peggy, very well said! Posted by: old_europe | March 21, 2008 10:05 AM Fact checker: DARN GOOD CALL! Thinker, svreader, iowatreasures, and the other Clintonistas: what say you to this record? Posted by: jollygood | March 21, 2008 10:21 AM Peggy, You said exactly! The longer she campaigns, the more she destroys herself. Posted by: Anonymous | March 21, 2008 10:32 AM Outright lies, not shading, not spinning, these are the Clintons we know too well. Problem is, with the Clinton flacks, like Ferraro, doing the race baiting and Hillary herself declaring John (100 years of war) McCain a better Commander-in-Chief than Barak, we are seeing the way the Clintons rebuilt the Democratic party. It was built to defeat the Republicans by eliminating as many differences b... |
| tinyurl.com/2ff9xe -> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml ACTIVITY PLANNER FEATURE FOCUS back forward Nobel winner: Hillary Clinton's 'silly' Irish peace claims By Toby Harnden in Washington Last Updated: 9:30am GMT 08/03/2008 Page 1 of 2 Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don't want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player." Mrs Clinton has made Northern Ireland key to her claims of having extensive foreign policy experience, which helped her defeat Barack Obama in Ohio and Texas on Tuesday after she presented herself as being ready to tackle foreign policy crises at 3am. "I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland," she told CNN on Wednesday. But negotiators from the parties that helped broker the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 told The Daily Telegraph that her role was peripheral and that she played no part in the gruelling political talks over the years. Lord Trimble shared the Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume, leader of the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party, in 1998. Conall McDevitt, an SDLP negotiator and aide to Mr Hume during the talks, said: "There would have been no contact with her either in person or on the phone. I was with Hume regularly during calls in the months leading up to the Good Friday Agreement when he was taking calls from the White House and they were invariably coming from the president." advertisement Central to Mrs Clinton's claim of an important Northern Ireland role is a meeting she attended in Belfast in with a group of women from cross-community groups. "I actually went to Northern Ireland more than my husband did," she said in Nashua, New Hampshire on January 6th. "I remember a meeting that I pulled together in Belfast, in the town hall there, bringing together for the first time Catholics and Protestants from both traditions, having them sitting a room where they had never been before with each other because they don't go to school together, they don't live together and it was only in large measure because I really asked them to come that they were there. "And I wasn't sure it was going to be very successful and finally a Catholic woman on one side of the table said, 'You know, every time my husband leaves for work in the morning I worry he won't come home at night. "And then a Protestant woman on the other side said, 'Every time my son tries to go out at night I worry he won't come home again'. And suddenly instead of seeing each other as caricatures and stereotypes they saw each other as human beings and the slow, hard work of peace-making could move forward." There is no record of a meeting at Belfast City Hall, though Mrs Clinton attended a ceremony there when her husband turned on the Christmas tree lights in November 1995. The former First Lady appears to be referring a 50-minute event the same day, arranged by the US Consulate, the same day at the Lamp Lighter Caf on the city's Ormeau Road. The "Belfast Telegraph" reported the next day that the caf meeting was crammed with reporters, cameramen and Secret Service agents. Conversation "seemed a little bit stilted, a little prepared at times" and Mrs Clinton admired a stainless steel tea pot, which was duly given to her, for keeping the brew "so nice and hot". Hillary Clinton meeting with Belfast women in 1995 and the teapot she admired Hillary Clinton meeting with Belfast women in 1995 and the teapot she admired Among those attending were women from groups representing single parents, relationship counsellors, youth workers and a cultural society. In her 2003 autobiography "Living History", Mrs Clinton wrote about the meeting in some detail but made no claim that it was significant. Rather than it being the first time the women had met, Mrs Clinton wrote: "Because they were willing to work across the religious divide, they had found common ground." Mary Fox, the wife of a former IRA prisoner and one of the seven women at the meeting, said she had been there on behalf of the Footprints community centre. "It was quite a political change for the women's sector after the visit of Hillary Clinton. She spoke to each of us and was very interested in our work. Mr McDevitt said: "I've always had a theory that these people were already well networked. Once a peace deal was in place, Mrs Clinton supported women politicians and was always available if they visited Washington "to give them a pat on the back, give them moral support", he added. |
| tinyurl.com/2sbrjo -> www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/03/21/disenfranchisploitation-part-2.aspx discussed how both Clinton and Obama have stepped up their "disenfranchisement" rhetoric to tweak each other over revotes in Michigan and Florida. Here's a clip from her campaign's latest e-mail to "Interested Parties," describing the Obama camp's strategy: First, disenfranchise voters - Prevent new votes in Florida and Michigan. Stop voting in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Oregon, West Virginia, Puerto Rico, Kentucky, South Dakota, Montana, West Virginia and Indiana. So now Obama's attempt to wrap up the nomination before Pennsylvania is tantamount to disenfranchising the remaining states? So if Clinton had sealed the deal on Super Tuesday, that would have disenfranchised half the nation? Also, the idea that Obama wants to "stop voting" in North Carolina--a place where he's all but guaranteed to win--is just ... The Clinton camp has a reputation for poll-testing messages, but I can only imagine a test audience laughing at this. |
| lessig.org/blog/2008/02/20_minutes_or_so_on_why_i_am_4.html comments (186) I wasn't going to do this, but then someone ask me to do it, and someone else told me (to my horror -- not that it would be insane for anyone, but insane for her) that she was for Clinton. So consider this my precinct captain duty for the lessig blog. this article, which talks about how Obama's domestic economic policies create an environment where people benefit themselves while also benefiting the common good, in contrast to other candidates. February 4, 2008 Obama mailer on Clinton health care plan lacks context. Summary: An Obama mailer stretches the differences between the candidates on health care" 2): Running for President requires an ENORMOUS amount of money. And Obama gets plenty of fat-cat support (can't give links or the spam-trap will eat this message). What the "Arab street" is going to see is not "change" but a colonial administrator, of a type they know real well. You're putting way more importance on symbols meaningful to US liberal intellectuals than make any real difference on the ground. Going up against an experienced, mean, veteran in many senses. I view him as mostly having taken a gamble that paid off on opposing the Iraq War, rather than it being an issue of right vs. Anyone who keeps doing right and not popular in politics loses power (to a first approximation). February 5, 2008 2:22 AM mike charlton: This is a first rate thoughtful piece. For what it's worth and that's probably not much, what persuaded me about Obama was that of the roughly 250 democrats who make a living from foreign policy, 90% supported him for president, primarily because they believed he had the best chance to restore America's positive standing in the world. The other reason was a speech he gave on education and its importance to our future. Chris: Hi, I enjoyed watching this video -- furthermore, I think it contains important ideas. Does anyone know if there is already a text transcript available? Perhaps it would be useful for me to help to create one? February 5, 2008 3:17 AM Jerome: Well made point - so much of what I've heard is that Clinton has more experience but I think Obama pointed out that so was Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. I have to say yo'veu sold me - though I admit I was leaning towards Obama since South Carolina. February 5, 2008 3:40 AM Gobama: Very well done, Professor. integrity, principle, vision, etc, Senator Obama has in abundance. Those are the qualities that cause 'followers' to feel extremely confident that they will be led to a better place. And these rapidly changing times, America will follow a better path or be left in the dust bin of history. The other Presidential candidates for the most part are just playing the same ole same ole politics of personal ambition alone, etc. but a good leader MUST also be about the people and about patriotism, about the common good. This man is the real deal, or off the charts as lessig says. A point not made in the video, that Seth may consider, is that Obama can beat McCain, which Hillary will have a hard time doing. Clinton would be a throwback to the split decisions we've seen in the past. though he always voted for appropriations to sustain it. His opposition to the war was unpopular in his district, however." But when the 1860's America needed to be United, Lincoln stepped up. Best all, and Seth, nothing but love for another interested and intelligent citizen. I have always valued your opinions, and even though I found Barack Obama without knowing you supported him, when I heard you did months ago, I was reassured. Sadly, I see that the RNC and the Rovian politicans weren't discouraged from posting even here, even against you. FYI, I am one of those "fat cats" that donated to Barack Obama. I make about 50k a year and am a single mother of a disabled child. I don't get child support, I don't get any government handouts. I donated because this man IS THE RIGHT PERSON FOR THIS JOB. But what you don't know and clearly don't realize is that I FULLY researched EVERY candidate in this race. And anyone who studies it and researches, as have so many Obama supporters (I even read the expose), knows it. It's because of people like you, who have no hope and nothing but hatred to spew that people don't feel safe in trusting. Seth Finkelstein: Mark: Tell me why Obama can beat McCain. One reason I think Clinton is the better candidate is because both Bill and Hillary have been through everything the Republican smear-machine could throw at them, and they're still standing. Every lie, every dirty trick, every smear, every blast from the Mighty Wurlitzer. Not petty little stuff like taking a speech off a website, but real wild conspiracy theories. That's the sort of "experience" I think makes a difference. net/articles/2008/02/05/transcript-of-lawrence- lessig-obama-video Prof. Lessig, you're obviously welcome to incorporate it into this webpage or link to it somehow. One small error I noticed was that the video claims that when Obama made his anti-war speech in 2002, he was a candidate for the US Senate. According to Wiklipedia, Obama didn't announce his candidacy for US Senate until 2003. How is a man who is focusing on corruption, implying that Hillary Clinton is not for campaign finance reform and hailing Obama as a beacon of hope? Hillary Clinton is a supporter of public financing (eg Canada), whereas Obama is apparently a supporter of people giving money but not lobbyists. Also, I have never heard anyone argue that Obama has as deep an understanding of the issues as Hillary. It seems intelligence and experience would be the first defense against special interests' misleading attacks. Sorry for the caustic letter, but Mr Lessig's endorsement is hypocritical and does not make sense based even on his own priorities. It also ignores deep differences in the candidates stances towards health care and other issues. Let's face it, Mr Lessig is endorsing Barack, like many Europeans, because he is black and charismatic. Almost as bad as my reasons for making improper use of a colon above. ANALYSIS: Who Was Telling Truth About Obama's Iraq War Position -- Clinton or Obama? "But Clinton's general argument is not without some substance. While there is no doubt that Obama delivered a strong anti-war speech in late 2002 -- just before the US Congress voted to provide President Bush with authorization of force -- there is certainly a question about emphasis of Obama's anti-war stance based on the website's front-page introduction to visitors." John J: @Seth: 1) Barack has attack Hillary Clinton, on her policy choices using accurate facts. The quote on the mailer you are referring to says "Hillary's health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it." This is a fact that she has on her website, and has repeated everywhere. Everyone will have to buy a health care plan or face as yet unnamed (although hinted at) consequences. When you compare the symbolism of an Obama presidency, a man who has spoken out against the war in Iraq; who has deep familial ties outside of the United States to a Clinton, or even a McCain presidency - two people who supported the war in Iraq, vociferously, Clinton who has deep ties to Israel (especially through her AIPAC lobbyist friends), McCain who has said he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years if needed; both who say that even being seen in the same room with someone they are against would forever stain the prestige of the presidency - the Islamic world will see a significant difference in our foreign policy, even before any changes have been made. Noone would have ever expected a "rookie" to be able to stand up against one Clinton alone, much less both of them in a focused attack. You are right that Clinton is a stronger trench fighter, but the fact that Obama has been able to do as well as he has against her has shown that he can hold his own against whatever the Republicans throw at him. The Illinois Senatorial race would have been lost because he stood up for what is right were it not for his initial opponent so often doing what is wrong. He has repeated done what is right and not what is easy in fighting for lobbying... |