www.balloon-juice.com/?p=9955
Memeorandum, because nothing is ever settled in these sorts of debates and all you end up doing is getting mired in discussions over who is and who is not racist.
"Old Punk" of the InstaPunk crowd posted his thoughts on why specific behaviors of a specific subset of the black community annoys him. Frankly, there is very little in his post I would be inclined to defend, but I would be very curious to learn how widely held his viewpoints might be. As an example, I would guess his aversion to the hip-hop gangsta sub-culture is widely shared. Rather than trying to look for the message in his message, the Usual Suspects, led by Glenn Greenwald, seized on the offensive sections as an opportunity to brand Glenn Reynolds and the entire conservative movement as racists. So let me summarize the exchange: Obama: We should have a national conversation about race. Old Punk: OK, here is what annoys me about some black people. One might well argue that this does discourage anything like a candid conversation.
was said at Instapunk: I'm not proposing the generalized use of the term, just trying to be clear for once, in the wake of Obama's call for us to have a dialogue about race. However much they may scream and protest, black people will know what I mean when I demand they concede that the following people are niggers: - Jeremiah Wright - OJ Simpson - Marion Barry - Alan Iverson - William Jefferson - Louis Farrakhan - Mike Tyson You know what I mean. They make you look bad, and you foul yourselves by defending them, by reelecting them to office, by admiring them in spite of all their awful behavior.
If Tom Maguire thinks that when Obama was writing his speech and Caldwell was writing his piece, what they had in mind for a candid discussion about race was a bunch of jackasses stating "Here is what I hate about niggers," then he probably really didn't understand the speech or the FT piece.
Election 2008 | 115 Responses to "Discussions About Race" Dulcie Says: Do the black people now get to list all the white folks they think are "crackers' or "honkys" now? Does everyone whose skin color is a particular shade of ecru have to reject and denounce Jeffrey Dahmer,Ted Bundy, Dennis Koslowski, and Brett Michaels?
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm MJ Says: Glenn Reynolds had a link today not to the Old Punks post about race but to an Easter poem posted by InstaPunk. The Easter poem was posted just above the other and they both have the word punk in the names they use. Greenwald figured that was close enough to smear Reynolds.
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:23 pm Lit3Bolt Says: On the other hand, I am sick to death of queer people as a group. That is part of the conversation Obama is asking for, isn't it? I live in an eastern state almost exactly on the fabled Sondheim-Weber line. Every day I see young queer males wearing tee shirts down to their belly button -- and jean shorts cut off at the thigh. It's impossible not to think the unthinkable F-Word when they roll up beside you at a stoplight in their bright shining new Hondas with 19-inch tastefully colored spinner wheels and Broadway recordings that shake the foundations of the buildings. Here's the dirty secret all of us know and no one will admit to. And only queer people are allowed to notice and pronounce the truth of it. Except that queer people are not a community but a political party. They can squabble with each other in caucus but they absolutely refuse to speak the truth in public. And this is the single biggest obstacle to healing the sexual divide in this country. The dammed-up flood of good will in this nation for queer people who want to work for their own American Dream is absolutely enormous. The biggest impediment is the doubt created in each and every non-queer American by the clannish, tribalist, irrational defense of every low act committed by any queer person. If you're offended when Republicans defend Richard Nixon or when Democrats defend Chuck Schumer, imagine what it's like when queer people swarm the streets to defend Judy Garland. I'm not proposing the generalized use of the term, just trying to be clear for once, in the wake of Obama's call for us to have a dialogue about homosexuality. However much they may scream and protest, queer people will know what I mean when I demand they concede that the following people are faggots: - Andrew Sullivan - Gleen Greenwald - Gerry Studds - Tanya Domi - Bishop Gene Robinson - David Bowie - Morrissey You know what I mean. They're effeminate, waspish, and will cut you down with a dry quip if you look wrong at them. They make you look bad, and you foul yourselves by defending them, by reelecting them to office, by admiring them in spite of all their awful behavior. We can have this conversation now -- should have this conversation now -- because Gay Americans are on the verge of the greatest setback they've experienced since the election of William Clinton. You see, you've just given life to the suspicion that queer people in America are, and have long been, a fifth column -- unanimously hating the very country that has afforded the highest standard of living ever achieved by queer people in human history. We're teetering at the edge of believing that you're a secret society, a massive collection of sleeper cells just waiting for your chance to do serious harm to the rest of us. Because you're never outraged by what the worst queer people do. Because you continue to make excuses for what should be inexcusable to everyone. Concede that a generation of not having children for your mothers has been a disaster. Let go of the fantasy that Judy Garland is some kind of infallible force of nature. Demand that your children spend more time reading and doing sums than farting around on the stage. Only about twenty thousand people in the whole country make a living by playacting. Do whatever it takes to make your preachers emphasize the value of being a good son instead of ranting from the pulpit about how all of life's woes are the fault of your abusive father. Have a beer and watch sports with the guys now and then. Allow your kids to find somebody to admire and emulate who isn't queer.
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm Conservatively Liberal Says: Does being queer really have to be a full-time job? I have heard that it is, kinda like being a hetero is a full time job.
incontrolados Says: I'm ad-libbing here, but the most racists I've met are Dems' is something you have typed here, John. That may be true in your experience and I'm not denying it. Having lived in the south all my life, it's the Reagan Dems that still vote Republican who still say that. Understand that this comes after spending the entire day with Reagan Dems and Republicans.
March 24th, 2008 at 12:01 am Bruce Moomaw Says: So, lemme get this straight: there's "very little" in Mr Punk's post that Maguire "would be inclined to defend", but it's awful for lefties not to "look for the message in his message"? I mean, is there some important message in his message that isn't apparent from his actual words, which contain very little that Maguire "would be inclined to defend"?
Says: Greenwald made himself out to be quite the fool in all this. Reynolds links to an Easter poem posted by "Chain Gang" (that moniker, in and of itself, merits some sideways glares)... And somehow Greeny uses it as an opportunity to blast Reynolds because a third-party poster named "OldPunk" posted something he didn't agree with on the linked site? DailyKos does a simple link (without commentary) to a "Tom from Texas" Balloon Juice post, and skippy then attacks Kos for linking to the "Tom from Texas" post because "Michael D" posted something on Balloon Juice that the bush-kangaroo disapproves of.
ThymeZone Says: White people generally have very little to say about race that I am interested in. However I think most white people are generous and fair and really want to move beyond old American racism. The FT piece you linked to requires registration and I am done registering just to read stuff like that. I am done with having me email addresses used as dumping grounds for shitty advertising and crap, and having to declare a password to r...
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