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| 5/18 |
| 2008/3/18-21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:49486 Activity:high |
3/18 Full text of Obama's "pastor" speech. Whatever else you might think,
this is moving stuff. I guess you can either choose to believe it
or not.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/full_text_of_obamas_big_race_s.php#more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU
\_ Not only do I not think it's moving, I think it's a cynical
side-step.
\_ That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, I think
the bulk of people who would consider voting for Obama at all
will consider it brave, principled, and devout. He may be doomed
by the Idiocracy that only thinks in 5 second sound bites,
but he probably would never win with these folks anyway. Whether
they may make up 50% + 1 of the electorate remains to be seen.
\_ My original response to you was nuked. On the assumption that
it wasn't you that nuked it, let me ask, in what way did you find
it cynical, exactly?
\_ He will make a great President. My father still talks about JFK
and how much me moved a generation, we are going to finally see
and how much he moved a generation, we are going to finally see
something similar: a man of great charima, passion and intergrity
something similar: a man of great charima, passion and integrity
who is going to move America in a new and better direction.
\_ But... but... he's black! You know that those people are
all lazy shifty criminals who hate the white people and want
payback! My god, HE HATES AMERICA! AND SO DO YOU!
\_ I just got back from a two-week vacation in Australia. Every
conversation longer than five minutes that I had with Aussies
turned to the US Dem Primaries. There's a lot of hope/interest
in Obama, even abroad. --erikred
\_ Fortunately the rest of the world does not vote for our
leaders.
\_ Your statement is difficult to unpack. Are you suggesting
that it is fortunate that the rest of the world does not
vote for our leaders, that it is fortunate that the rest
of the world has no say in the choosing of our leaders, or
that despite his popularity abroad, Americans are unlikely
to elect Obama?
\_ All three. I don't see a difference between A&B which
is what I meant when I posted, but C is also true, but
not because he is or is not popular with the rest of
the world. Americans as a whole don't vote on that
basis. The reason it is fortunate that non-citizens
do not vote is they would obviously vote for someone
best for their own country, not ours. I think it goes
without saying (although I'm saying it :)) that an
elected official in any office should represent the
interests of the voters/citizens, not random people
from some other country who have their own government
and election system.
\_ *shrug* I don't see how my initial statement that
there's a lot of hope/interest in Obama, even
abroad, led to your statement. Perhaps I'm just
still jetlagged. --erikred
\_ We'll try again later.
\_ After six years of Freedom Fries and calling our
allies names, our reputation abroad could use
some improvement.
\_ You're confused.
\_ What do you imagine that I might be confused
about? Do you think that our reputation abroad
has gone up under The Decider? Do you think
that our declining reputation is a good
thing?
\_ Historically JFK seems to have been a pretty poor president.
See "A Legacy of Ashes."
\_ I agree. Ronald Reagan is our hero.
\_ Not sure I agree entirely, since he only had 3 years in which
to work before he was shot. He did inspire a generation to
service and to get to the Moon. He did well in the Cuban
Missile Crisis, the closest we ever came to full on nuclear
war with Russia (imagine if LBJ had been prez for that).
Then again, he did get us further into Vietnam. Hard to
say.
s
\_ And he made it ok to go outside without a hat. That alone
is worth being a hero.
\_ It would be nice if people wore more hats. It's
also good for us guys with thinning hair.
\_ So you think that last year would've been pivotal? Or are
you saying it takes 2 full terms to matter?
\_ I'm just not sure. I don't think there is a hard and
fast rule. As an enduring postive symbol of America, I
think there's no question that he's had impact, just as
Reagan did and continues to do so - though Reagan's
second term wasn't exactly littered with great
accomplishments. I think to put him in the same
category as say, Garfield or Harding, is a mistake.
I don't think we can say for sure what he would have
gone on to accomplish, but I think it's fair to say
that the '60s would have been quite different without
the trauma of his assassination. Talk to boomers about
it - for a lot of them, it defined their lives.
\_ re: boomers. Absolutely. I 100% agree. OTOH, I
don't care that all those people remember where they
were and what color their socks were when they heard
he got shot. As a realist I only care what he (or
anyone else) did or did not accomplish. I'm not sure
I agree the 60s would have been any different though
if he had lived. The US would still have been hip
deep in Vietnam. The hippies would have hipped.
Free love would have been just as not-quite free.
Am I missing something?
\_ The Civil Rights Act.
\_ Uhm no. That was grass roots. Without the
marches, the water cannons, dogs, shootings,
lynchings and millions of Americans saying
"No!" the CRA would never have happened.
\_ Uhm no. You can perhaps argue that it would
have been signed sooner or later, but the
Montgomery bus boycott started 10 years
earlier. It took great political courage to
push through the CRA.
\_ People dying on the streets made it
happen, not some paper pushers in DC.
It took no courage to pass something
most of the country was in favor of
given what was going on in the south.
Politicians are by their very nature
not courageous creatures.
\_ What makes you think that a majority
of the country was in favor of it?
As LBJ said, it gave the South to
the GOP for at least a generation.
\_ Replace all references to Reverend Wright in that speech with
David Duke and you might get a feel for why I'm not that impressed.
\_ So you think the two are the same? Really? Are you insane?
\_ One's a white guy who hates black people, and the other is
a black guy who hates white people. What's the difference?
Enlighten me.
\_ The United Church of Christ doesn't burn crosses on
people's lawns.
\_ Uh, please show me where he hates white people. Seriously.
I've seen the videos. I don't see him shouting how
WHITEY MUST DIE.
\_ Which videos? I have yet to see a url that points me
to these videos.
\_ In other words, you're comparing David Duke, former
Grand Dragon of the KKK, an organization publically
and vocally dedicated to racism, to Rev. Wright, a
man whose views you only know through reports in
Right Wing Media? Dude, more research, please, before
opening mouth.
\_ Different person, moron.
\_ Wow, if only you'd signed your post, AC.
\_ It's pretty obviously a different person.
Sheesh. I signed as well as you did.
\_ 1) This obvious you speak of is not so
obvious.
2) I'm not the one who complained about
being mistaken for someone else. If
you really want to be differentiated,
sign your posts.
\_ I suppose it's only obvious if you
have an IQ over 12. I'll spell it
out for you. If you're discussing an
article/video, and post comes along
from someone who doesn't even know
there IS a video, it's probably not
from the same guy.
\_ And David Duke claims to not be racist, but that he is
"a racial realist defending human rights." So what?
I admit, I don't have a 'smoking gun' statement, I'm
just infering from his attitude and general distain for
'Amerikkka' and 'middleclassness.' (acting like whitey)
At the very least we know he is a conspiracy nut.
\_ Please document. Seriously. Because I have a
feeling your ass is getting very empty right now.
\_ You said you saw the videos. Perhaps they weren't
the same videos? You could also read the
church website, but it's been purged recently.
link:csua.org/u/l2c (church pdf) Or you could
read Obama's first book, "Dreams From My Father."
Perhaps you should not be insulting other's
research. I've obviously done more than you.
\_ Yup, it's totally empty.
\_ Keep deleting this if you want, but it
is still obvious your ass well is running dry.
\_ Are you kidding? I love it when people ask
for evidence, and when you give it to them,
they say "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALA!"
I admit, you win, I laughed first.
\_ There is no way any of the things you
are talking about come anyway close to
David Duke. In any way shape or form.
I'm sorry but this whole thing should
be a total non-story.
\_ I've heard some of his sermons on the
radio. There is no way that a) any
reasonable person can consider what he
said anything but racist and hateful
or b) that someone who knew the guy
for 20 years, called him mentor,
attended his church for 20 years and
had him as a campaign advisor has no
clue what the guy has been saying and
doesn't agree with at least some of
it. --someone else
\_ So I am supposed to take the word
of some anonymous motd hozer, in
the abscence of any evidence what-
soever? I am curious, are you one
of the guys who thought invading
Iraq was a good idea, too? If these
sermons are so racist, find the
text of one on the Net and share
it and let me decide for myself.
Your judgement is suspect to me.
\_ It took me 10 seconds to find
a pile of links. It took 10
more to find links from a
sufficiently left wing source
that you might accept them:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4443230
I can't play the video but it
should be the live speech. If
not, you can easily find the
video or audio elsewhere. Have
a good evening.
\_ I looked at both of those
and watched the video. Which
quote exactly is the problem?
You had no idea what you were
talking about before and now
you can't find shit.
\_ Ok, now you're just
trolling. No reasonaable
human being can call that
anything but hateful.
\_ Were P Robertson and J
Falwell's musings on
"God removing his
protection on 9/11"
more or less "hateful"
in your beady little
mind?
\_ Which?
\_ It is about as "hateful"
as your average Rush
Limbaugh show or rant
from Ann Coulter, which
is to say, yes. Not
racist though, at least
it doesn't seem so to me.
is to say, yes somewhat.
Not racist though, at
least it doesn't seem
seem to me, a white guy.
so to me, a white guy.
\_ If Ann and Rush were
Obama's advisors and
friends of 20 years
they wouldn't get a
pass like Wright.
\_ Which is why
Ann can talk at
the RNC and call
Edwards a fagot
and the media
barely pays any
attention to
the story? Why
McCain can suck
up to a preacher
who calls the
Catholic church
Satanists and he
gets a pass? Why
Pat Roberston can
blame 9/11 on gays
and feminists and
still be sucked up
to by the
republican
machine? This is
whole thing is
bullshit. Obama
didn't say these
things but he
takes the hit.
Meanwhile major
rep. powers spew
tons more hate
regularly and
noone blinks.
How is being the subject of intense media _/
scrutiny and being the number one story in
newspapers all over the country qualify
as "getting a pass"? |
| 5/18 |
|
| tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/full_text_of_obamas_big_race_s.php#more Greg Sargent - March 18, 2008, 10:46AM We have a full transcript of Obama's big race speech for you after the jump. Reading it, you can't escape the fact that in various ways it represents a massive break with conventional political precedent. In the speech Obama goes big big big, quite consciously presenting his personal story -- and candidacy -- as both symbol and realization of American history... I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners -- an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible. It's a story that hasn't made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts - that out of many, we are truly one. And of course he addresses the Wright controversy, conceding that he sat silent in the church while Wright said "controversial" things... I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed. but he defends Wright as much more than the whackjob that's been burning up You Tube of late, a move that in itself could be seen as a break with political precedent, in that he's asking voters to look beyond the cartoon of controversy to see a more complex picture... The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth -- by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS... I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. and says that rather than approach the Wright controversy in a conventional way, he wants to use it as an occasion to initiate a broader discussion of race in America... But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American. and he unapologetically says that Wright's rhetoric -- and its appeal -- is rooted in the anger of victims of discrimination, though he's also careful to note that black anger "often proved counterproductive" and that white resentments are sometimes "grounded in legitimate concerns"... But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings. And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. a sweeping indictment of our abysmal political discourse. Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787. The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations. Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time. And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part - through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time. This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren. This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cous... |
| www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU Filter videos that may not be suitable for minors Note: some videos not suitable for minors may still appear in search results. Obama Speech: 'A More Perfect Union' Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Good comment Marked as spam Reply THIS IS THE STRONGEST AND BEST SPEECH I'VE EVER HEARD SINCE MARTIN LUTHER KING I HAVE A DREAM.. FEARLESS, no fear what so ever for what ever happends next or what ever any one may think.. Good comment Marked as spam Reply A necessary speech in a country where lifelong democrats have a problem voting for a black man. One of the bravest and most inspiring speeches I have heard from a man running for position in the US government. White under the bus and try to distance himself from the controversy, but instead Obama offers one of the most honest, insightful assessments of racism in America that I've ever heard. Makes me proud to be an American that a man like this is running for President. Will make me even prouder if he is elected to lead our nation into a new era. Good comment Marked as spam Reply Sorry, but why did CNN mute the applause, making the crowd seem uninterested and making Senator Obama appear to be waiting for applause? Fast forward to 27:18 - 27:31 and note the pitch change at around 27:28. Good comment Marked as spam Reply You have Conpliments and disses for Barack.. Ofcourse we want some one that is an eloquent speaker who can speak clearly to the people, and not only that, he's amazingly smart, a good person, a black & white american.. so that being said learn not to contradict your self when making a statement.. Good comment Marked as spam Reply His speech doesn't only touch blacks and whites. He touches anyone who has experienced prejudices because of their race. I'm White and Asian, experiencing hatred from both sides. He needs to move us forward in a time when the race wars have been building again. Thank You Obama for saying what so many wish we could say. About This Video Barack Obama speaks in Philadelphia, PA at Constitution Center, on matters not just of race and recent remarks but of the fundamental path by which America can work together to pursue a better future. more) Added: March 18, 2008 Barack Obama speaks in Philadelphia, PA at Constitution Center, on matters not just of race and recent remarks but of the fundamental path by which America can work together to pursue a better future. |
| abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1 Blotter Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, US to Blame for 9/11 Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric' Barack Obama, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism." Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope." Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the US based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme." In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation. Privacy Policy/Your California Privacy Rights External links are provided for reference purposes. ABC News is not responsible for the content of external internet sites. |
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