2/11    I want an rrdtool-like program that can store/retrieve/graph
        arbitrary data, but I don't want it to drop/smooth out data over
        time like rrdtool does.  The amount of data is relatively small
        and I want exact data points stored forever.  Is there something
        like that out there?  I've tried google and freshmeat but I'm not
        finding anything like that.  Thanks.
        \_ Why not use gnuplot to plot and roll your own script to store
           and retrieve data?
           \_ Roll my own would be reading/writing to mysql.  I can do that
              but I was hoping there was an rrdtool-like program out there
              that doesn't smooth out data over time.  If I didn't have the
              data retention requirement I'd use rrdtool+friends.
              \_ have you considered looking into the code for rrdtool and
                 hacking in/out the featuers you want?  it is basically just
                 wrappers to gnuplot and such.
                 \_ I thought about it.  The problem is how RRDs work.  I don't
                    want my data to ever get dropped or blended into other
                    data.  I think it would be easier to just use mysql than
                    rewrite rrdtool to do something it was designed *not* to
                    do.  If no one knows of anything, that's cool.  Thanks.
        \_ Can't you just tell rrdtool to never compress your data?
           \_ I don't think so.  RRD = round robin database.  Upon creation it
              creates a file large enough to store X amount of data where X is
              defined at *creation*.  I suppose I could keep tweaking/growing
              the .rrd files as they near full but that's really kludgey.  If
              there is some way to get rrdtool to do what I want without hacks
              I don't see it documented.
              \_ Why not create them the proper size to begin with?
                 \_ 1) disk space, 2) if I'm going to throw that much disk at
                    my stats, I might as well put them in mysql where I can
                    more easily access them than "rddtool fetch".
                    \_ Sort of my point. You can't get around the disk
                       space problem if you want to store your data,
                       however you access it. It sounds like your solution
                       is exactly what you wanted. What else did you want?!
                       \_ I didn't want to have to double store the data in
                          mysql *and* rrd to do graphing and other analysis.
                          Now I have to keep two data stores in sync and
                          eventually the rrd is going to fill and drop data
                          unless I grow it.  I really wanted the rrd graphs
                          talking directly to mysql.  If I had more time I
                          would've rewritten the graphing code to talk to
                          mysql instead of rrd.  That's what I *really* wanted.
                          But this is ok.  Just sharing my solution for those
                          who might care.
                          \_ I'm not with you here. If you use rrd then
                             what do you need mysql for and vice-versa?
                             You only need one backend to go with your
                             graphing frontend. If you are worried about
                             smoothing use mysql and forget about rrd.
                             Disk space is a red herring, because you face
                             that either way.
                             Just use rrd and size your data store
                             appropriately. You will face that problem no
                             matter how you store it, so what does mysql
                             buy you at that point? You don't need both.
                             You just need a backend and a graphing frontend.
                             \_ I have a few reqs: complete project asap, not
                                smooth data, graph data.  Not smooth data
                                reqs that I use mysql.  Graphing data is
                                easiest with various rrdtools I already have
                                in place.  Time limitation reqs that I do
                                the easiest/fastest thing.  Disk space and
                                maintenance are issues but secondary.  I have
                                more disk space on the mysql server than I do
                                on the graphing server, for example.  I also
                                don't want to grow rrd files later when the
                                current ones run out of space.  I also want to
                                have data in an easily accessed format like
                                mysql that others can deal with without needing
                                a shell on the rrdtool server.  My solution was
                                to limit data to one year for graphs, store in
                                mysql for the long term, use rrdtool graphing
                                programs.  If you have a better solution I'm
                                all ears.
                    What I ended up doing is both.  I store data in mysql from
                    various sources.  Then I fork a copy of the data to
                    rrdtool for graphing purposes where it's ok if I lose some
                    long term data integrity.  The rrdtool files are
                    relatively small since I created files good enough for a
                    few weeks without data smush.
                    I get my graphs, I get long term mysql store/retrieve with
                    no data smoothing.  It isn't the ideal I was looking for
                    but it'll do the job.
                    \_ Excellent work. Who are you? I probably need the same
                       thing and might ask for some pointers. -ausman
                       \_ I'll mail you.  I wrote a trivial script to make
                          and update the rrds.  I have some perl that calls
                          the update script and does some alerting.  Nothing
                          rocket-sciencey but you can't complain about the
                          price.  :-)