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| 11/23 |
| 2008/2/8-11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:49096 Activity:moderate |
2/8 i kind of liked Romney. oh well.
\_ I called him an idiot at first because of his "political act". But
accepting that as part of politics, I certainly liked him much
more than McCain. Romney has more real leadership experience, and
McCain seems kind of unstable. And too war happy and egotistical.
\_ I like Fred Thompson ... 's wife.
\_ I didnt find it shocking he wasn't insanely anti abortion
and gay crushing when he was governor of Mass.
\_ Voting for democrats is SURRENDER TO TERROR
\_ I just saw that. Ok I don't like him anymore. what
a moron.
\_ Ditto, ok that reinforces my original assessment. Of
course, this too could be a political act. Whatever,
moron it is. Occam's razor.
\_ I winced too, but since both Dem canidates are planning to
surrender in Iraq, it's probably actually correct.
\_ 1. Iraq was never about the "War On Terror".
2. Going into war without clear goals (or constantly
moving your goals about) is a plan for disaster. This
was a war of choice, but there was no good reason or
plan. Pulling out is admitting that. You can't "win"
a war like that.
3. Isreal lost a lot of face because they lost a war.
Making that even more clear would have just made things
worse. Sometimes you need to pull back and regroup.
Throwing good after bad just makes things worse.
4. Getting out of Iraq is the first step to actually
solving the issues at hand.
\_ 1. It wasn't at the beginning, but it sure is now. Or
haven't you noticed the terrorist trying to take over
the place?
2. I agree, but this too has changed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902666.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
http://csua.org/u/kqr (Wash. Post)
(And actually hasn't been true for some time.)
3. meh
4. This relies on 1 and 2, which were false.
\_ Surrendering generally requires an actual identified enemy
to surrender to. We could bomb everyone there until they
stopped moving, but what is the point? It's not a war so
much as a giant security problem. The enemies are living
in the same society as the one you're supposedly
protecting, you can't win a "war" like that. You have to
take drastic internal police-state measures.
\_ I agree with you technically, but the whole world would
interpret pull-out as surrender, so the technical
difference hardly seems important. Especially since
things are actually going pretty well now.
\_ Insofar as we embrace binary positions, yes, this
will be seen as a surrender. In reality, it will
simply be a repudiation of the Bush Admin's legacy.
\_ Remember Isreal and Hezbollah just a year ago?
That little pull-out move increased Hezbollah's
stature a lot. Whether we "embrace binary
positions" or not doesn't make a whole lot of
difference to how it looks on the world stage.
\_ Hey, do you still call them "Freedom Fries"?
\_ Can't win rationally huh?
\_ You can't talk a man rationally out of
a position that he didn't use reason
to get himself into in the first place.
\_ As if anyone gets political positions
using reason. -- ilyas
\_ Our enemy in Iraq is not just AQiI; it's a
number of Sunni insurgents, some of them
home-grown, as well as collateral damage from
Shi-ite militias. Hezbollah gets bragging points
in Lebanon because it's the only player fight-
ing Israel at the time. War was declared; sides
were chosen/drawn; one team left the field;
"win" (by which I mean bragging rights, not an
actual victory) by forfeiture: Hezbollah. Not
that Israel really had a choice at that point.
Shi-ite militias. Hezbollah gets bragging
points in Lebanon because it's the only player
fighting Israel at the time. War was declared;
sides were chosen/drawn; one team left the
field; "win" (by which I mean bragging rights,
not an actual victory) by forfeiture:
Hezbollah. Not that Israel really had a choice
at that point.
\_ No, the world will interpret pull-out as a sign that
the grown-ups are finally back in charge in Washington
at least until we elect the next round of wing-nuts.
the grown-ups are finally back in charge in
Washington at least until we elect the next round of
wing-nuts.
\_ World >> Europe
\_ I kind of like Fred Thompson's wife. Oh well.
\_ "San Franciscan style left wing is not MAINSTREAM America" |
| 11/23 |
|
| www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902666.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR CLOSE Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. View Only Top Items in This Story "I am Abu Tariq, Emir of al-Layin and al-Mashadah Sector," it began. Over 16 pages, the al-Qaeda in Iraq leader detailed the organization's demise in his sector. He once had 600 men, but now his force was down to 20 or fewer, he wrote. Abu Tariq focused his anger in particular on the Sunni fighters and tribesmen who have turned against al-Qaeda in Iraq and joined the US-backed Sunni Sahwa, or "Awakening," forces. "We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers," Abu Tariq wrote. "We must not have mercy on those traitors until they come back to the right side or get eliminated completely in order to achieve victory at the end." US military's latest weapon in a concerted information campaign to undermine al-Qaeda in Iraq and its efforts to regroup and shift tactics. The movement remains strong in northern areas, and many American commanders consider it the country's most immediate security threat. al-Qaeda leader that describes the organization as weak and beset by low morale. "It is important we get our story out," a US military official said on condition of anonymity. "I firmly believe the information part of this conflict is as very vital as the armed element of it. Since October, attacks by al-Qaeda in Iraq against the Awakening fighters have doubled, said Maj Winfield S Danielson III, a US military spokesman. US military officials said they are convinced the diary is authentic. Most, if not all of it, was written in October, and its tone of anger and bitterness is consistent with security improvements they were seeing in Balad at the time, they said. An estimated 450 Sunni Awakening fighters, also known to the US military as "concerned local citizens," are now providing security in the area. The Post could not independently verify the diary's authenticity. The US military officials cautioned that the diary was not a portrait of the insurgency across the country. "This is the state of al-Qaeda in this area," the US military official said. US military officials said that they had no one in custody by that name and that it was most likely a pseudonym. Baghdad, described Abu Tariq as the "legal religious emir" of an area stretching from Taji, north of the capital, to south of Balad. Awakening forces and al-Qaeda in Iraq fighters clashed in that area recently, Salem said. The Awakening forces found 20 decrees signed by Abu Tariq that sentenced to death prisoners his men had captured, including policemen and soldiers. Mosul, an al-Qaeda in Iraq stronghold, where US and Iraqi troops are preparing a major offensive. Throughout the diary, Abu Tariq appears to have been speaking and giving instructions to his followers. He was also keeping a record of sorts, as if anticipating his death. |
| csua.org/u/kqr -> www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902666.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR CLOSE Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. View Only Top Items in This Story "I am Abu Tariq, Emir of al-Layin and al-Mashadah Sector," it began. Over 16 pages, the al-Qaeda in Iraq leader detailed the organization's demise in his sector. He once had 600 men, but now his force was down to 20 or fewer, he wrote. Abu Tariq focused his anger in particular on the Sunni fighters and tribesmen who have turned against al-Qaeda in Iraq and joined the US-backed Sunni Sahwa, or "Awakening," forces. "We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers," Abu Tariq wrote. "We must not have mercy on those traitors until they come back to the right side or get eliminated completely in order to achieve victory at the end." US military's latest weapon in a concerted information campaign to undermine al-Qaeda in Iraq and its efforts to regroup and shift tactics. The movement remains strong in northern areas, and many American commanders consider it the country's most immediate security threat. al-Qaeda leader that describes the organization as weak and beset by low morale. "It is important we get our story out," a US military official said on condition of anonymity. "I firmly believe the information part of this conflict is as very vital as the armed element of it. Since October, attacks by al-Qaeda in Iraq against the Awakening fighters have doubled, said Maj Winfield S Danielson III, a US military spokesman. US military officials said they are convinced the diary is authentic. Most, if not all of it, was written in October, and its tone of anger and bitterness is consistent with security improvements they were seeing in Balad at the time, they said. An estimated 450 Sunni Awakening fighters, also known to the US military as "concerned local citizens," are now providing security in the area. The Post could not independently verify the diary's authenticity. The US military officials cautioned that the diary was not a portrait of the insurgency across the country. "This is the state of al-Qaeda in this area," the US military official said. US military officials said that they had no one in custody by that name and that it was most likely a pseudonym. Baghdad, described Abu Tariq as the "legal religious emir" of an area stretching from Taji, north of the capital, to south of Balad. Awakening forces and al-Qaeda in Iraq fighters clashed in that area recently, Salem said. The Awakening forces found 20 decrees signed by Abu Tariq that sentenced to death prisoners his men had captured, including policemen and soldiers. Mosul, an al-Qaeda in Iraq stronghold, where US and Iraqi troops are preparing a major offensive. Throughout the diary, Abu Tariq appears to have been speaking and giving instructions to his followers. He was also keeping a record of sorts, as if anticipating his death. |