Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 49088
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2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

2008/2/7-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:49088 Activity:moderate
2/7     http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120241324358751455.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
        Biofuels actual worsen warming and other problems, while gov't
        mandates their use.
        Score another one for meddling, overbearing, incompetent government.
        \_ You might want to look at who's really backing biofuels.  -tom
           \_ How is that relavent to the point being made?
           \_ How is that relevant to the point being made?
              ADM and their ilk are backing it.  Many of the environmentalists
              (at least the organizations) have come around and realized
              that only tools were supporting this, but guess what, it
              will continue to recieve giant subsidies.  -crebbs
              will continue to be mandated and subsidized .  -crebbs
              \_ The issue, then, is the power of the coporation, not
                 "meddling, overbearing government."  -tom
                    \_ Govmnt is always acting on some's behalf.
                       Usually some large already powerful organization
                       like a corp.  The difference is that the coporation
                       does not have the power the forcibly take my money
                       (without getting the government to do it for them).
                       and use it fuck shit up.  Only the Govmnt has this
                       and use it to fuck shit up.  Only the Govmnt has this
                       power, which is one of the reasons continually
                       expanding the power of govmnt is a bad idea. (see
                       Hayek for others (and more lucidity).  It is also
                       why the point made by top is relavent and it is not
                       why the point made by top is relevant and it is not
                       reasonable to try to move blame being rightfully
                       assigned (a piss poor use of government power) to
                       "the big evil corporations".  (even if, as in this
                       case, a particular big evil corporation certainly
                       does share culpablility). -crebbs
                       does share culpability). -crebbs
                       \_ LIBERAL RANT ALERT BELOW! LIBERAL RANT!
                       \_ Government doesn't inherently work on behalf of
                          coroporations, although that's certainly been the
                          case in the U.S. since Reagan took office.  The
                          more you weaken government, the less it has the
                          ability to fight against the control of large
                          powerful organizations.  The fact that conservatives
                          beholden to large corporate interests have been
                          championing deregulation and lower taxes is not
                          coincidental; it is quite intentionally meant to
                          foster a specific pro-corporate ideology, that
                          the purpose of the government is to protect
                          coporate interests.  -tom
                 \_ If the government was limited to essential functions,
                    instead of messing around with stuff like lightbulbs
                    and fuel percentages, then corporations could not
                    do this. Same goes for income tax shenanigans that
                    corporations do: a simple fixed tax scheme would
                    go a long way towards preventing those.
                    \_ If coporations ran everything except "essential
                       functions", we'd be worse off than we are.  -tom
                       \_ No we wouldn't. Yay!
                          \_ Cf. Free Market in Baja California.
                             \_ You're an idiot.
                                \_ You're an asshat. Are we ready to talk
                                   like adults now?
           \_ The farm lobby?
           \_ Whoever cornered the corn market in Mexico?
              \- cornholio?
              \_ Isn't that guy worth more than Bill Gates now?
        \_ President Bush signed energy legislation in December that
           mandates a six-fold increase in ethanol use as a fuel to 36
           billion gallons a year by 2022. See, it's all Bush's fault:
           http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23057867
2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

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online.wsj.com/article/SB120241324358751455.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Sports Studies Suggest Biofuels Can Worsen Warming By Gautam Naik Word Count: 846 While the US and others race to expand the use and production of biofuels, a growing body of scientific evidence suggests these gasoline alternatives will actually boost carbon-dioxide levels and thereby aggravate the problem of global warming. A study published in the latest issue of Science finds that corn-based ethanol, instead of reducing greenhouse-gas emissions by a hoped-for 20%, will nearly double the output of CO2 and other gases that trap the sun's heat. A separate paper in Science concludes that the clearing of native habitats around the world to grow more biofuel crops will lead to more carbon emissions, ...
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www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23057867
MSNBC TV Study: Corn ethanol worse than gasoline Greenhouse emissions much higher if land use factored in, researchers say IMAGE: CORN FIELD AROUND ETHANOL PLANT Charlie Neibergall / AP Fields of corn surround this ethanol plant in Mason City, Iowa. WASHINGTON - The widespread use of ethanol from corn could result in nearly twice the greenhouse gas emissions as the gasoline it would replace because of expected land-use changes, researchers concluded Thursday. The study challenges the rush to corn-based ethanol as a response to global warming, but says there is a future for ethanol from waste products that do not require uprooting land where carbon is already absorbed by trees and plants. The researchers said that past studies showing the benefits of ethanol in combating climate change have not taken into account almost certain changes in land use worldwide if ethanol from corn -- and in the future from other feedstocks such as switchgrass -- become a prized commodity. "Using good cropland to expand biofuels will probably exacerbate global warming," concludes the study published in Science magazine. The researchers said that farmers under economic pressure to produce biofuels will increasingly "plow up more forest or grasslands," releasing much of the carbon formerly stored in plants and soils through decomposition or fires. Globally, more grasslands and forests will be converted to growing the crops to replace the loss of grains when US farmers convert land to biofuels, the study said. Ethanol industry responds The Renewable Fuels Association, which represents ethanol producers, called the researchers' view of land-use changes "simplistic" and said the study "fails to put the issue in context." "Assigning the blame for rainforest deforestation and grassland conversion to agriculture solely on the renewable fuels industry ignores key factors that play a greater role," said Bob Dinneen, the association's president. There has been a rush to developing biofuels, especially ethanol from corn and cellulosic feedstock such as switchgrass and wood chips, as a substitute for gasoline. President Bush signed energy legislation in December that mandates a six-fold increase in ethanol use as a fuel to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, calling the requirement key to weaning the nation from imported oil. The new "green" fuel, whether made from corn or other feedstocks, has been widely promoted -- both in Congress and by the White House -- as a key to combating global warming. Burning it produces less carbon dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas, than the fossil fuels it will replace. During the recent congressional debate over energy legislation, lawmakers frequently cited estimates that corn-based ethanol produces 20 percent less greenhouse gases in production, transportation and use than gasoline, and that cellulosic ethanol has an even greater benefit of 70 percent less emissions. The study released Thursday by researchers affiliated with Princeton University and a number of other institutions maintains that these analyses "were one-sided" and counted the carbon benefits of using land for biofuels but not the carbon costs of diverting land from its existing uses. "The other studies missed a key factor that everyone agrees should have been included, the land use changes that actually are going to increase greenhouse gas emissions," said Tim Searchinger, a research scholar at Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and lead author of the study. The study said that after taking into account expected worldwide land-use changes, corn-based ethanol, instead of reducing greenhouse gases by 20 percent, will increases it by 93 percent compared to using gasoline over a 30-year period. Biofuels from switchgrass, if they replace croplands and other carbon-absorbing lands, would result in 50 percent more greenhouse gas emissions, the researchers concluded. Biofuels from waste urged Not all ethanol would be affected by the land-use changes, the study said. "We should be focusing on our use of biofuels from waste products" such as garbage, which would not result in changes in agricultural land use, Searchinger said in an interview. Use the right biofuels, but don't require too much too fast. Right now we're making almost exclusively the wrong biofuels." The study included co-authors affiliated with Iowa State University, the Woods Hole Research Center and the Agricultural Conservation Economics. It was supported by a grant from NASA's Terrestrial Ecology Program, and by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Searchinger, in addition to his affiliation with Princeton, is a fellow at the Washington-based German Marshall Fund of the United States. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.